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Your name is Shu, and of all the problems you’ve faced in the post-apocalypse, being worshiped as a god isn’t one you imagined having to deal with.

And yet, here you are, waiting for one of your ‘followers’ to return with the leader of one of the three factions that have sprung up despite your insistence on your own humanity. It’s really the cherry on top of the bizarre day this has turned into…it started a battle to the death turning into a surprisingly polite negotiation. After that, it quickly segued into a pleasant exchange with a collection of hippies that sit on the razor’s edge between the munchies and cannibalistic rage. Now, you’re trying to wrap your brain around the political machinations and dubious motivations of cult that’s been founded in your name…it almost makes the warped, organic mess that Earth and its inhabitants have turned into feel normal, by comparison.

Almost.

With a sigh you rest your chin in the palm of your hand, settling into the chair you summoned from the hardened ground. It’s already not the most comfortable thing in the world, the calloused seat an ill-formed thing only made all the more irritating as it chafes against the chitinous plates that have overtaken your shoulders and spine. The fabric of your dress does little to mitigate the friction between your hive’s armored carapace, but as you shift uncomfortably you suddenly find the seat supple and forgiving. Glancing up and to your left, you find that you have Uzu to thank for your seat’s current condition, the Flesh Artisan’s slender fingers withdrawing from the chair’s back that’s now engraved with the girl’s trademark spirals.

“Thanks.” You say with an appreciative smile, squinting in the rust-light light of the Fleshscape’s eternal dusk. “That helps…though if I’m being honest, I’m still pretty nervous.”

“Shu, you practically defused a walking nuclear warhead earlier this afternoon by exchanging pleasantries.” The dark-haired young woman fires back.

“True.” You admit, noticing a flicker of movement in the distance, where the calloused ground sharply drops to give way to the beach that’s far below. “But a nuke has one trigger…and I’ve got the sneaking suspicion that this situation has ones we’re not even aware of, yet.”

~~~

Previous Vein: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/4208306/

Archive: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=Body%20Horror%20Quest

Character Abilities, Ver 4: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IGq15jshM2iDN8J2yvYF6fdP9yu9JSPDs2FCEYAJ6As/edit?usp=sharing

Trypophilic Hive, Ver. 3: https://pastebin.com/bUWG6TNF

Relics, Ver. 7: https://pastebin.com/kHzW2hbd

Dual Techs: https://pastebin.com/2jZ5Zhyx

Twitter: https://twitter.com/bodyhorrorquest?lang=en

Quest Fan Works: https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1comL20X2jUrPO0p7QMdFinwAwdXHre2F9A5bdXif7_k/mobilebasic
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Uzu just hums thoughtfully as two girls come into view, trudging towards you with intent. The one on the left is a recently familiar one – a short, slender Neuromancer that goes by Tabby, whose cunning has allowed her and her two allies to infiltrate each of the cult’s factions to better understand their intentions…but as valuable as their insight has proven, you’d still like to get a better grasp on what a ‘true believer’ looks like. To that end, the girl he’s brought with her is one of the more vocal members of the ‘Neutral’ faction, the one that supposedly errs closer to your intentions than the other two whose…liberties…with your message may prove to be the fuse that sets this whole thing alight.

The Daughter in question is a fair-skinned young woman, calcite shards protruding haphazardly from her slight frame. The whiteness of her skin and alabaster of the shards only serve to highlight the bright scarlet cysts that dot her slight form, each one roiling with a violent red liquid, seemingly ready to burst at the slightest touch. Her conspicuously scarlet irises go wide the moment she lays eyes on you, and she dares not utter a word before you even as Tabby takes her leave to give you, Uzu, and one of the Neutrals’ more outspoken members some privacy.

“Beau, I presume?”

The girl gives a dumbfounded nod, arms slack at her sides as you gesture to the seat that’s facing yours. She obliges while still keeping her crimson gaze transfixed on yours, and it’s a long moment before she dares to finally speak aloud.

“I have to say, it’s…it’s an ho-honor.” She begins, nervously trying to figure out what to do with her hands as she squirms in her seat. “So, ah…w-what can I do for you?”

>>”Well, to start off…I’d like to know a little about you and how you came here.”

>>”If you were to summarize you and your fellows’ ideology to a layperson, what would the ‘high-points’ look like, exactly?

>>”I’d like to get your take on things. Not just the group you’re a part of and the other two factions, but earth’s situation as a whole.”

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open until 2PM, Eastern time. I hope everyone is doing well, and it's good to be back.)
>>
>>4248680
>"Beau, ill be honest with you. Im not here for any reason that will please alot of people. But im hoping i can at least understand the situation and di my best to leave here having set things straight as well as possible."
>Sigh, and start off simply.
>"To that end, im trying to... Understand this place better. So, please, if you would be willing... Why did you come here? What about it drew you in, made you stay?"
>"...what is it you believe, you and those who stand with you here?"
>"From what i hear, many people here are putting me on too high a pedestal, which is quite troubling as i don't want to be on a pedestal at all."
>"And even worse,i hear you and yours might be the inly ones who even listen to what im actually saying... But i suppose we'll see how accurate that is, if you're up to it?"
>>
>>4248684
Always good to be back. Hope you're doing well Bhop.
>>
>>4248680
So she is an Albino probably with a humoral generator hybrid and calcite powers. Neat.

Vote:
>"The honor is all mine. Beau. You see i have come here after i talked with Charon a while back to see what all of this was about. And well to get a grasp of the situation."
>"They could tell me a couple of things but since many of the people here think Charon is to important to talk to them about internal politics i thought it best to take a look myself."
>"So to start this all off. Who are you and where did you come from? But most importantly WHY did you come here?"
>Silently wish you had Dorian here so you could share a drink with this girl cause she seems nervous as hell.
>"I have heard you are part of a neutral faction. Is that correct? How woudl you describe your goals. The goals of your faction so that a layperson could understand them."
>"Boil it down to its core you could say."

>>4248684
Nice to see your back.

What about the changes to the system? i take it those require a little more time in the oven of ideas

Mostly asking since i dont want to create the extra levels for the Europe crew Powers when the system is gonna be overhauled soon.
>>
>>4248695
Only big issue i see is the factions themselves might have their own names and view, calling even the neutral faction by what a 'spy' trying to simplify things for us by such called them might not sit well even with them.

Best to leave the naming of groups to the groups while we still want them to be willing to talk to us.
>>
>>4248680
Ammending vote from>>4248695
to
>"The honor is all mine. Beau. You see i have come here after i talked with Charon a while back to see what all of this was about. And well to get a grasp of the situation."
>"They could tell me a couple of things but since many of the people here think Charon is to important to talk to them about internal politics i thought it best to take a look myself."
>"So to start this all off. Who are you and where did you come from? But most importantly WHY did you come here?"
>Silently wish you had Dorian here so you could share a drink with this girl cause she seems nervous as hell.
>"I have heard you are part of one of those factions. Is that correct? How would you describe your goals. So that a layperson could understand them."
>"Boil it down to its core you could say."

>>4248698
yeah okay i can see that. she will probably tell us that but until then we can leave that open to leave the impression we chose the people at random
>>
>>4248684
Doing fine myself.

Cradleton Chapter 7 update:

I find myself beset by things I realized that had to be written down and set up before the big climax.
Mainly generating two dozen individual daughters from scratch, each with individual motivations, power sets, and classes with a d12 dice generator to be used as set pieces.
And that's just the beginning.


>>4248680
>"First off...I'd like you to relax. Breathe deep with me. In. and out."
>"I'm going to be here for a while, so I would like to get your take on things."
>>
>>4248701
On chapter 7;
Sounds neat, and rough. But don't feel afraid to both wing it as you need it so long as you remember it, and only make and reveal what you need for any not going to get a real limelight. Really, all im saying is dont drive yourself crazy trying to make two dozen fully fleshed out characters who might only get minor use is all.
>>
>>4248701
Sounds like quite the task you set for yourself. Best of luck anon

I myself am putting the finishing touches on chapter 11. Just have to put in the last scene after their feast. and then its off for some proofreading.
>>
>>4248684
Weekend was fine. But i am starting to feel kinda sick. maybe i caught something when i drove to work on my bike(its still relatively chilly) and my throat feels a bit dry. I just hope its nothing mayor.

On the other hand a friend of mine wants to start an Elder Scrolls Pen&paper RPG campaign..... So yeah i made a character and am helping out two other pepole with the mechanical side of things since that homebrew changed quite a few things from DND 5e
>>
>>4248709
Oh, don't worry about that. I've got down the bare minimum. And despite writing down their name, their class, the barest of gimmicks and their basic motivation/history in regards to this event, already they're developing quirks and interactions that's making them memorable in my mind's eye. They're a rather colorful bunch. The same goes for the notable enemy elites...well...some of them.

The reason I had to go through char gen is because the initial draft as is with the big plan to bail Carter out reads like a bamboozle out of nowhere without providing enough mandatory context as well as providing clarity to the fight scenes unless I do a set-up scene that introduces them as well as highlighting the plan and the stakes. The set-up will also serve to show how effective of a Force Multiplier Andersen's assistance can be to even out the odds despite being put on the sidelines by his wife.
>>
>>4248724
well do what you need, and good luck.
>>
>>4248695
(It's going fairly well, and as far as details go I'll likely drop some more information by day's end for everyone's consideration and to see how you all feel about the two proposed changes.)
>>
>>4248821
Good to hear. and looking forward to those though i wont be there to immediately respond...
>>
>>4248821
well, looking forward to what your ideas are, but we'll see how they look when they're out and about.

also, the picture for Beau was one of the ones in my folder to post. on one hand, one less on the backburner, on the other, dang, the backlogs starting to overlap with what you already got.
>>
>>4248838
(On that note, had someone posted it before? It was further up in my folder than I recall when I first saved it, so I suddenly got worried that I'd nabbed a pic that someone else had posted for a character of theirs...)
>>
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>>4248856
i dont remember posting it, but if i did it certainly wasn't as a character.
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>>4248680

"The honor’s all mine, Beau.” You say with a smile that you hope has the intended effect of calming the girl’s taught nerves. “You see, decided to visit after Charon told me a little about the people that had been gathering in my name. I wanted to see what this was all about, maybe get a better grasp of the situation. I think a lot of the people here assume Charon is too important to talk to them about internal politics i thought it best to take a look myself."

Beau nods sharply, having finally settled her hands firmly in her lap…and you find yourself wishing for Dorian’s presence, if only to offer this girl something to calm her nerves.

"Beau, I’ll be honest with you - I’m not here for any reason that will please a lot of people. But I’m hoping I can at least learn about the situation and do my best to leave here having set things straight, as much as is possible." You continue with a sigh, holding the girl’s deep red eyes as she swallows hard. "To that end, I’m trying to... Understand this place better. So, please, if you would be willing - why did you come here? What about it drew you in, made you stay?"

Swallowing again, Beau glances between you and Uzu before she answers hesitantly. “I, uh…I visited the Monastery a lot, before you came through. I was there, actually…the first time you came. I didn’t realize who you were at first. Not until everything…happened…there, and you toppled the Spiraling Fear. I knew you were someone special, after that. Everyone did, I think. I was passing through a settlement that Charon had destroyed a while back, when they came and started talking about you. About what you stood for. That’s what drew me in…but as for what made me stay, well…”

She shrugs, then smiles.

“…it’s the people, really. At least with the Adherents…that’s what we call ourselves, since we try and stick to the spirit of what you’re doing…the Adherents really make you feel welcome. They sit down. They listen. They don’t want to take anybody for granted. Everyone’s welcome, as long as you’re willing to do the right thing, to listen and be listened to, in turn.”

Beau glances up at you with a shy, crooked smile.

“Like you, really.” She adds, softly.

"I see.” You say, mulling over her words before you drop the more important question. “So what is it that the Adherents believe? If you were to boil it down to its core, in a way – what are they all about?”

“Well, to put it simply…we’re about what *you’re* about. Freedom for people to make their own choices. Listening first, then taking action as need be.” She explains, her nerves loosening the more she speaks. “We don’t have any Skintalkers like the other two major factions, but we think that your actions speak for themselves without any interpretation needed. We…*I* like to think that the example you’ve set needs no explanation.”

(Continued)
>>
>>4249047

"From what I hear, quite a few people here are putting me on too high a pedestal.” You say tentatively, watching the girl nod attentively as you speak. “It’s a little troubling, as I don't want to be put on any pedestal at all, really."

“Y-yeah.” Beau chuckles. “I mean, there are still some in the Adherents that think you’re god’s gift to everyone in the Crucible…but that’s kind of the exception, as opposed to the rule. We just admire what you’re trying to do as the first really worthy goal any Daughter’s publicly stood for. I guess it comes from the fact that you’ve done *so* much since you came on everyone’s radar, and you’ve even got Mara’s blessing, since she’s trying to delay the Crucible for you to ascend the Cord. You’ve made where you stand perfectly clear…and that’s part of the reason we want to fight alongside you, when you make your move.”

“How so?”

“Well…it’s part of a Daughter’s inherent drive to journey to the Cord, but you’re the first to openly declare your intention to let the world take its course. There’ve been others who’ve had a grand plan or some vision for a better future, but only you have said that you want everyone to have control instead of trying to guide how the chips fall, yourself.” Beau elaborates, admiration evident in her shining eyes. “It’s your Laissez-faire attitude towards Earth’s future that’s led us to want to see you succeed…and it’s why we want to help you secure the chance for us to have that future, no matter what it takes.”

Beau chews thoughtfully on her lower lip before she asks; “Miss Shu, if I may speak frankly?”

“Please do.”

“I know a lot of the Adherents don’t have much to contribute in terms of combat, but if we can give you even a sliver of a chance to reach the Cord unscathed, then I think it’s worth it. Not just for us, but for everyone that’s going to come after. For the ones that’re going to come back, after you finish this. I think most everyone that’s part of the Adherents know that you and your family are willing to lay down your lives to give humanity a choice of how to move forwards, and we’re willing to do that, too…even if it’s not a future we’ll live to see.”

“I think one of the veterans that I spoke with put it best, a Phantasmal Conduit that’s done a lot to keep people in the Adherents calm with her power.” Beau adds thoughtfully, just before you’re about to protest. “She gave up everything to fight for her country, because she wanted to make sure that the people she loved…and even people she’d never met before, people she’d *never* meet…had the freedom to live their lives the way they say fit. For good or ill, she wanted people to be able to choose, and for that she gave up her own freedom of choice.”

Beau shrugs, grinning sheepishly.

(Continued)
>>
>>4249049

“I’m not as brave as she is, and I’m certainly not as disciplined…but I think what drives us is the same, and I think a lot of my friends and peers would agree. We’re here to make a stand for the future, come what may. Your idea of the future is one we’re willing to die for, so that others will have the chance to live in it.”

“Beau…I know you were nervous when you arrived, but I have to say that you’re quite eloquent.” Uzu admits with a gentle smile, prompting a snort of laughter from the girl before you.

“Oh gosh, heh….thank you. I’m really not that great one-on-one. I prefer talking to crowds, actually.”

“Can’t say I’ve heard that before.” Your ally grins, cocking one eyebrow. “Normally it’s the other way around.”

“Well, I was completely hopeless before I joined drama club to get over it, but I got so used to public speaking that solo stuff still freaked me out.” Beau says with an embarrassed giggle. “Still does, as I’m sure you can tell…sorry.”

“You’ve nothing to apologize for, Beau. You’ve been exceedingly helpful.” You add with a reassuring smile, prompting another giggle out of the still-nervous young woman. Reflecting on what she’s revealed, it seems that the Adherents are trying to stick to the spirit of your message, as opposed to the word…words that’ve no doubt been twisted by the other two segments of the cult Charon’s unwittingly assembled. Maybe the fact that the Adherents don’t have a Skintalker is a good thing…or maybe they’re a little too willing to throw themselves on the merciless fire that is the path to the Cord.

To the end, of all of this.

>>”What’s your take on the other two factions and their leaders?”

>>“Tabby said that you were fairly outspoken among the Adherents. How’d that come about, if you don’t mind my asking?”

>>”You mentioned a friend of yours, a Phantasmal Conduit that keeps people calm with her power. An emotional field, I presume?”

>>Try to gently tell Beau that as much as you appreciate her and the other Adherents’ willingness to fight for the cause, living for that future is nobler than throwing their lives away for it.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next three hours.)
>>
>>4249052
>"I appreciate, and even commend the thought Beau. not of the Adherents sticking to my word as scripture, but of your willingness to try and help others... even at such a cost."
>"And... for your trust in me and mine."
>"...But i still cant give you my blessing to help me assault the Cord."
>Hold up a hand, to stop her protest before it starts.
>"I cant let people lay down their lives in my name, or with me having given my consent, even if i trust they are doing it for the right reason underneath."
>Smile, softly, but sadly.
>"But i wont stop you from having that choice either. It wont be with my blessing, or with any flag ive consented to, literal or metaphorical... but I wont stop you or anyone else from doing what you think is right, or what you think is necessary once that day comes. I just..."
>Grip Uzus hand for support, but keep Beaus eyes, and give her the honest truth.
>"Thats something im still coming to terms with asking my family to do, even though i know its necessary. to be honest? you being so genuine about it? so honest in why you and the adherents want to help? it only makes the idea harder to live with."
>"...But come what may, so long as i make sure its your choice for the right reasons... ill find what i need to to live with it. I only hope you all can understand where im coming from where i say my peace on it."
>"To be honest, You and yours sound exactly like the people id want left once im in the cord and cant help out here anymore, over being more bodies littering the floor.

>Give you and Beau a moment, before continuing.
>“Tabby said that you were fairly outspoken among the Adherents. How’d that come about, if you don’t mind my asking?”
>”You mentioned a friend of yours, a Phantasmal Conduit that keeps people calm with her power. An emotional field, I presume?
>”What’s your take on the other two factions and their leaders?”
>>
>>4249052
>"I absolutely appreciate you wanting to help me out in reaching the cord. I have to say that i am not one to push people into things. I can however not condone you throwing your lives away for me or my family. To be honest. Even mid level daughters are little more than cannonfodder in the endgame. I believe you girls can have so much of a greater impact by helping people in need out here instead of throwing yourself into the grinder."
>"So what do you think about the other factions?"
>>
>>4249052
Amending from>>4249089
to supporting >>4249088
>>
>>4249052
>"Beau...as much as I appreciate your choice and decision of laying your lives down for me, I cannot give you my blessing nor accept your aid in assaulting the Cord."
>"I cant let people lay down their lives in my name, or with me having given my consent, even if i trust they are doing it for the right reason underneath."
>Smile, softly, but sadly.
>"But i wont stop you from having that choice either. It wont be with my blessing, or with any flag ive consented to, literal or metaphorical... but I wont stop you or anyone else from doing what you think is right, or what you think is necessary once that day comes. I just..."
>Grip Uzus hand for support, but keep Beaus eyes, and give her the honest truth.
>"That's something im still coming to terms with asking my family to do, even though i know its necessary. to be honest? you being so genuine about it? so honest in why you and the adherents want to help? it only makes the idea harder to live with."
>"It will only make the burden harder for me to carry, knowing that lives are being thrown in front of my feet in a noble yet senseless sacrifice."
>"I appreciate your offer to help and your willingness to fight, but what point is there if there aren't any people like you left to live in the future that we've fought so hard for?"
>"Fight for the future you wish to live for. So that when the Crucible ends, there will be people like you and I to inhabit the planet we saved."
>"To know that selfless people like you, those who adhere to the spirit of doing the right thing? To know that they threw their lives away to shield a person like me instead of saving countless others on the planet? It will only make the final climb harder. I don't think I can live with that sort of burden. I still have yet to come to grips with that reality in regards to my family either."
>"I respect your choice to aid me even if I don't give you my blessings because you and yours think it's the right thing to do, but please know that I'm turning your offer down because to me, that is the right thing to do."
>>
>>4249088
Anon. I think you could add this to mirror our sentiments:
>"I respect your choice to aid me even if I don't give you my blessings because you and yours think it's the right thing to do, but please know that I'm turning your offer down because to me, making sure that people like you live in the future you have fought for instead of sacrificing themselves for that future is the right thing to do."
>>
>>4249132
eh, nah.
i respect the sentiment of yours but i agree with and like the wording of my own much better. I suppose im willing to let BHOP take a gander at both as he likes but i prefer how mine comes off and ends off much more personally.
>>
>>4249056
One question OP..... This is spoiler related to the eleventh Chapter......

Do you think i captured a burnt out Magpie or an incredibly angry and frustrated Magpie?

A large woman trudges out of the Laughing Gremlin, she steps up to the balustrade and lights a cigarette. The voice of the woman in her head still echoing in her mind. “Damn you Mara. There is no loner anyone here that can help you. You took the strongest groups they had here and fed them to that thing. And i am pretty sure this new group has left already.” she almost yells and kicks the balustrade. Her kick sends a couple of calcite chunks flying, as she groans and inhales the cigarette in a single breath.

“Fine i will keep an eye out if i see them. A helicopter isn’t too hard to spot. But i will tell them everything and warn them of the danger beforehand” Magpie groans at the cold voices insistence she track down that group and conscript them. She glances up at the sky when the sound of a Helicopter breaks the slight sizzling sound of the english drizzle. Then she briskly turns around and stomps back inside yelling for more booze and if that helicopter belonged to the group that had rushed to help Kassy.
>>
>>4249056
or did i capture a Magpie at all?

related to>>4249189
>>
>>4249189
(I'd say you captured a Magpie in the final stages of her and Mara's friendship, actually.)
>>
>>4249197
so..... too late in their relationship?

I would guess so since they had that big hunt together....

So i should probably tone it down a bit...
>>
>>4249203
(If that's what you're going for, then I'd say toning it back a bit would sound more in line with that time frame.)
>>
>>4249207

Sorry to have you play editor..... But i really want to capture her personality at the time since she is not my creation.

This more like it?

A large woman trudges out of the Laughing Gremlin, she steps up to the balustrade and lights a cigarette. The voice of the woman in her head still echoing in her mind. “Mara listen to me. There is no longer anyone here that can help you. You already recruited the strongest group from here.” she groans barely holding herself back from kicking the balustrade. She groans and inhales the cigarette in a single breath as she listens to the voice in her head.

“Fine i will keep an eye out if i see them. A helicopter isn’t too hard to spot. But i will have to warn them….. about what happened.” Magpie whispers her brow furrowed. She glances up at the sky when the sound of a Helicopter breaks the slight sizzling sound of the english drizzle. “So how long do you think till we finally find someone?” she continues, sounding tired, when the voice in her head stays quiet. “Soon. I can feel it” Mara replies before cutting the link on her side. Magpie briskly turns around and shuffles back inside asking for more booze and if that helicopter belonged to the group that had rushed to help Kassy while feeling so incredibly tired.


I still may use the tone of the other scene.... for a later point in the story.... probably a couple weeks later.
>>
>>4249226
(That's much more accurate to that point in her timeline, yes.)
>>
>>4249236
Ok thanks for helping me out.

Now i have send it off to my proofreader (proofreading for logic errors not grammar or spelling since he suck at that more than i do)

maybe i will send it to my brother as well..... He isnt as much of a nerd as i am..... but maybe he can help with Proofreading


So the chapter will probably be out at the beginnning of the weekend
>>
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I'm a little behind on my reading the veins but I found this today and it really just belongs here. If Gina ever needs an upgrade to her headphones...
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>>4249052

"I appreciate the thought, Beau...commend it, even." You reply with a warm smile. "Not of the Adherents sticking to my word as scripture, but of your willingness to try and help others...even at such a cost. To say nothing of the trust you all have put in me and mine."

She returns your smile, even as it fades when you add; "...But I still can't give you my blessing to help me assault the Cord."

You expect a protest, if you're being honest. Some small sound of shock, or a sputtering of confusion...but to your surprise, the girl seated before you just gives you a slow, solemn nod, waiting for you to continue.

"I cant let people lay down their lives in my name, or with me having given my consent, even if I trust they're doing it for the right reason." You follow with a sad smile. "But I won't stop you from having that choice, either. It won't be with my blessing, or with any flag I've consented to, literal or metaphorical...but I won't stop you or anyone else from doing what you think is right, or what you think is necessary once that day comes. I just..."

"I know you'd never ask. You wouldn't ask anyone that, and it's obvious with how much you care about your family that asking them to fight alongside you is enough of a struggle. That being said...I hope this doesn't come off in a bad way, but..." Beau interrupts gently, hesitating a moment before she firmly adds...

"...we're not doing this for you. We're doing this because it's the right thing to do."

You blink, tilting your head as Beau takes a breath.

"You, me, everyone that Charon's gathered...in one way or another, we're all fighting for the future. We're going to do everything we can to ensure you get the chance to give us ours. Regardless of our differences, we know you'd never ask us to help...so we're going to do what we have to. Of our own free will."

"...Okay." You say after a few moments of silence, leaning back in your chair as you consider how to reply. "Well, come what may...so long as I make sure its your choice for the right reasons, then I'll find what I need to live with it. I can only hope you all understand where I'm coming from where I say my peace on it."

"We will." She assures you, her optimism evident in her shining eyes.

"To be honest, you and yours sound exactly like the people I'd want left once I'm in the Cord and can't help out here anymore, over being more bodies littering the floor." You remark grimly and to that, Beau simply shrugs.

"Oh, I'm sure that there will be some that decide to stay behind. It's part of what Tabby and I are doing now, actually - touching base to see who's really convicted about the Cord and who's better off staying behind to help the world that we'll make." The girl informs you with a nod.

“Speaking of whom...Tabby said that you were fairly outspoken among the Adherents. How’d that come about, if you don’t mind my asking?”

(Continued)
>>
>>4249367

"Oh, well...kind of by accident?" Beau giggles, relaxing a fraction. "There was an argument between two Adherents a couple of days back, and when I spoke up, I made a point of saying how we were all fighting for the same thing...and people just started listening to me, so..."

"Like Bee did, a bit ago?"

"Ha, yep!" She affirms, just before her eyes go wide. "Wait, you were here for that?"

"That was my first introduction to everyone, actually. I'd just arrived, so you all made a unique impression." You say with an easy-going laugh, one that the girl across from you indulges in, herself. ”So, you mentioned a friend of yours that keeps people calm with her power. An emotional field, I presume?"

"Huh? Oh, yeah! Aniyah's great. Her power's not that invasive, but it just projects this passive area of good vibes around a couple hundred yards or so. Doesn't work for everybody...namely the Righteous Furies. Aniyah's power doesn't seem to work on them as a whole, really."

"I take it that's one of the other two factions?" You ask, and Beau nods. ”What’s your take on the other two factions and their leaders?”

"They're...well-intentioned. Yeah, we'll go with that." Beau says with a tight, forced smile. "The Furies are angry...though 'indignant' might be a better word for it."

"Justified anger, you mean?" You prompt, and Beau nods sadly.

"Yeah...I've spoken with some of the girls on that side of the fence, and while I don't appreciate their bloodthirst, I also can't say that I've been through what they have. Maybe if I did, I'd be singing a different tune." She admits. "Their self-appointed leader goes by Dimezza. She and her sister, Alecto, have kept their followers' anger at a simmer for weeks now. I'm not sure how they've managed it, but the two of them have kept them in line for the most part. I haven't spoken much with them directly, though."

"And the other faction?"

"The Vigilant, yeah." Beau supplies. "The seem...fervent, but nice overall. Unfortunately they're the ones that've been toiling away at making that pedestal you're not fond of, so you'll probably have a hard time with them. Leyra's...no fun to talk to, if I'm being honest. Kind of stuck-up, for no good reason?"

"I know the type." Uzu says, and you're not sure if that's a rib at herself or not as you consider Beau's words carefully. Beau's been helpful, not to mention surprisingly at peace with what you anticipated would be a contentious declarations...though you have the sneaking suspicion that it'll be the Vigilant that won't take what you have to say lying down. In any case, the Adherents have made it clear that they're not the ones you need to be worried about...

...for now, at least.

>>There's one or two other things you'd like to bring up to Beau before she leaves [Write-In]

>>Thank Beau for her time, and grit your teeth as you speak with the Vigilant.

>>Let Tabby lead Beau away, for now...it's time to talk to the Furies.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, I shall be pausing here for the evening to give myself time to recover from a particularly busy day. Voting shall remain open until 9:00AM tomorrow, Eastern time, with posting to resume at approximately 2:00PM. Thank you all for your patience, participation, and enthusiasm, and know that in a little while I'll be posting the general idea of the system updates I have in mind.)

>>4249366
(I legitimately laughed out loud. This is great.)
>>
>>4249374
>Thank Beau, and give her a hug on the way out.
>"Thank you, truly. your honesty even despite everything is more than i could ever ask for, truly."
>"Ill let you know, i plan to address the cult as a whole before i leave. id... appreciate you being very discrete and careful with letting anyone know im here until im ready but.... i also think i can trust you to know who you might need to tell to prepare for that, and to make sure no unwanted ears overhear about it?"
>Smile, but also sigh.
>"I promise ill do my best to learn and hear about... all of this, and say what needs to be said how it needs to be said... but im sorry that i cant guarantee nothing bad might come out of what i need to do here either..."
>"I can only ask for forgiveness over anything that might happen, even if i believe doing and saying something here is the right course of action."

>Let her go, then call in whoever they have prepared, but leaning towards the Furies if you have a choice.

I personally think dealing with understandable anger might be more up our alley than twisted and misguided stubbornness. heh, Rath alone might of prepared us for the Furies well enough, but the Vigilant honestly sound like the exact types that lead to Isabelle, Uzu, and Magpie scenarios...
>>
>>4249379
sorry to hear this monday wasn't much better than the usual, but, i suppose no one would be surprised by now, eh?

hope you get some rest, and interested to see what your solution to what was it? 600~ish abilities to keep track of, is?
>>
>>4249366
I find these deeply disconcerting in a way that many of the more gory things shared in these threads aren't.
>>
>>4249379
Alright OP sounds good though i will be going to sleep now.

Have a nice relaxing Fungal Spa that is managed by a slime girl

>>4249374
>"Thank i can not express how much i appreciate your honesty with me"
>"Please be careful not to let anyone know i am here quite yet. I will address all the daughters together after i had a talk with prominent figures on all sides."
>"It might make things worse but if i am to stick to my guns i will try to learn everything i can before i go out there and address them all with what i think will need to be done."
>"I hope that Shipping wars will then be the worst thing anyone will have to face here but I can only ask that you can forgive me if things go very bad. Sadly sometimes people don't want to listen"

>Let her go, then call in whoever they have prepared, but leaning towards the Furies if you have a choice.
>>
>>4249396
Yeah...We can deal with the furies, given that we've dealt with hot-heads with a surprising amount of success.

But it seems like our track record has shown that we don't do well with those with heads up their asses.

>>4249379
I hope to see the changes.

My life has been rather shaken by the fact that I just found out that I was laid off amidst the lockdown. This is going to make my job search even harder now given my resume track record and current events. The picture is not truly indicative of my current mood, but still it's a general feeling as to how I feel about my status.
>>
>>4249422
Umph....

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I hope things will get better soon
>>
>>4249422
(I'm so sorry to hear that, Anon. Considering that my first Quest stopped abruptly when I faced the same thing, I know how you feel. You've got this, though. It's a weird time, but I know you'll get through it. I hope things improve soon, Anon.)
>>
>>4249374
>>Thank Beau for her time, and grit your teeth as you speak with the Vigilant.

I think that as difficult to deal with as the Vigilant are going to be, ultimately that conversation is going to be less heavy than the one with the Righteous Furies. Even if one of them has renamed herself "unending anger". Seriously, Alecto? No way that's your real name, no sane parent names their child after one of the Erinyes.

>>4249379
Thanks for running, BHOP. Sorry to hear your day was busy. I hope you get some rest, friend.

>>4249422
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that, anon, that's a shitty thing to find out happened. I hope it work out for you.
>>
>>4249422
oof, really sorry to hear that, truly. my own search for a job has been... iffy, due to all this too. but hang in there man, im sure you can turn this around.... or society/everyone will all be dead as the virus mutates and becomes a true pandemic, but hey, still solves the problem technically.
>>
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(Gentlemen, below you shall find the ideas that I've tentatively worked out.Let me know what you think, and I'll take it into consideration as always.)

(First, regarding abilities and level maximums. I am considering one of two options. The first is bringing Cores down to 15 lvls max, hybrids to 15, and all other abilities to 10, for a simple reduction of 5 lvls per ability type.)

(Alternatively, the one I'm more leaning towards is a massive simplification - Cores and Hybrids get 10 lvls, with normal abilities having 5.)

(The reason I'm leaning more towards this option is the simplification of it all there are too many numbers in play, and too few of the ability levels feel imactful enough for the investment until later levels. Any level cut will essentially compact the trees and force each level to carry more weight, which I'm honestly all for. I've tested it with several of the skill trees in play, names everyone's Cores and hybrids, and I've been satisfied with the results. Now, keep in mind that the base mechanics in play haven't changed - the trees have been compressed and streamlined, not cut that much in terms of content.)

(What's more is that each skill tree would not come with a summary page that's at the start of it - it would list basic functions as well as the elemental damage that is inherent [or technically optional, as in the case of your Swarmlings' flamethrowers], allowing for a quick reminder at-a-glance for any and all skill trees.

(Either of the compression options would work, but the end result would be skill trees that are much, much easier to read. However, that would require a considerable amount of character sheet tweaking on my part, but it will absolutely be worth it on your end, I believe. Being able to assess the tools you have at your disposal swiftly in the middle of battle is my goal here, in addition to making a full-blown trawl through your powers punchy and fun to read instead of a complete slog)

(Additionally, this will also adjust the level-up points given, as each individual level is far more impactful than in the current system. As I said, I've been pleased with how it looks, but let me know what you think.)

>>Elemental musings to follow...

(Continued)
>>
>>4249871

(Now, on to resistances, immunity, and absorption.)

(The proposed system would work thusly - imagine a bar with tic-marks on it, let's say around fifteen marks in all. This bar is a Daughter's level of resistance to a given attack type/element. Let's call this example Daughter, ah...Exa. Sounds good. Starting on the left-hand side, let's say Exa has 3 pts. of resistance in Heat. Each point reduces incoming damage from that element by a certain percentage.)

[The percentage is on my end, so just focus on whether or not what I'm proposing feels right.]

(Now, Exa has a Relic that grants her an additional 2 pts. of resistance to Heat. At 5 Lvls, she now has immunity. Awesome. Now, if she faces a heat-using foe that ignores 1 Lvl of resistance, Exa takes damage, because it's being calculated as her having 4 Lvls of resistance.)

(Wind it back - Exa now has 7 Lvls of resistance to Heat, because she met Shu, and Shu gave her a Relic. She's nice, like that. Exa faces the foe from the last paragraph, whose resistance reduction only brings Exa down to 6 Lvls of Resistance. She's still immune, so Exa takes no damage.)

(Now, at 10 Lvls of Resistance, Exa gets Absorption, with it following the same idea as Immunity. If you're hit with something that ignores enough levels of resistance to knock Absorb down to Immune, then the damage might not have gone through, but at least you're not giving someone HEALTH.)

(Under this new proposed system, I'd reword abilities that grant immunity to a given element at granting +5 Lvls of resistance, and items that grant Absorb as giving +10 Lvls of Resistance. Shortcuts, basically. Now, under this system, the inverse would be true, in that 'Ignore Immunity' and 'Ignore Absorb' would instead turn into 'Ignore 5 Lvls of Resistance' and 'Ignore 10 Lvls of Resistance', respectively. Thus, stacking even more Lvls of Resistance is never really a bad thing, as a maxed-out Lvl 15 Resistance that's hit by a -5 Res attack would still absorb it, so surplus isn't useless, in this case.)

(Now, to character sheets - if something like this system goes through, I'd make a simple Resistance addendum to the skill sheets, showing an abbreviation for each element and their associated Resistance Lvl. that the playable character has. It would be simple to remember, with clear-cut thresholds.)

>>END

(So, those are the ideas I've been batting around for a little while, now. Let me know what you think or if you'd like to propose any alternatives - I'm open to it all, as I'd like to streamline the experience for you all and return to making things more intuition-based as opposed to getting everyone lost in the numbers.)

(I hope everyone's day has gone well, and I wish you a restful night, one and all.)
>>
>>4249871
>>(What's more is that each skill tree would *NOW* come with a summary page that's at the start of it - it would list basic functions as well as the elemental damage that is inherent [or technically optional, as in the case of your Swarmlings' flamethrowers], allowing for a quick reminder at-a-glance for any and all skill trees.)

(Correcting a grievous spelling error in this sentence.)
>>
>>4249871
How would reducing the level cap affect hybridization? I can't see how you could reduce the level cap without also changing the hybridization point, not without also implicitly changing the power level of a lot of skills. Like, currently, most of our hybrids were made at the level five point. If you reduce the level cap for regular skills to five levels, that means that instead of being hybridized when they were one third of the way complete they were hybridized when they were maxed out. So either you have to give the skills a power boost so that they feel right for a max-level skill, or you have to implicitly reduce the power by saying that that's as strong as the skill would get at maximum level. Or, you change when skills can be hybridized, compact the skills in the hybrid down to level three and say that skills can be hybridized at three and five instead of five and ten.
>>
>>4249900
(Hybridization could occur at Lvls 3 and 5 instead of 5 and 10. Now, if we go with my first example, then Hybridization at 5 and 10 would stay in effect, obviously.)
>>
>>4249910
So there would still be some change to how hybridization works. Instead of it being at intervals of a third of a skill's maximum, it would be at intervals of half. I wonder how that would change our willingness to hybridize, when taken together with the increased value of each level? Well, I'd be willing to see how it works. I would like to have an example before judging whether to go ten-max (fifteen Core and Hybrid) or five-max (ten Core and Hybrid), however. If it wouldn't be too much trouble, could you write up a tree under all three formats? Maybe show us Trypophilic Hive, since our look-ahead means we already know all but the final level. Seeing that in twenty-max, fifteen-max and ten-max versions would help figure out what level of compression works best. I know that's a fair bit of writing for a system you haven't fully balanced yet, though, so I'd understand if you'd rather not, though.

As for the new elemental system, sounds reasonable. It's sort of what we originally had, just with different increments. I've got no objections with that. Slight bit of confusion, though: Would the levels in-between Immunity and Absorption offer anything incremental, or just a buffer? Like, would absorb some damage and ignore the rest, or just ignore all damage and not get any Absorption until you hit the 100% Absorb point?
>>
>>4249926
(Getting Typophilic Hive into a readable state is actually at the top of my priority list. Once I have the examples of how it would look in both of the formats I mentioned, I'll be posting it here in a Google Sheet. It's still going to take a little while, though.)

(Now, as for the levels between Immunity and Absorption - they currently don't offer anything aside from a buffer, and that's one part of the system I don't like. I had a system where originally, the abilities that ignore Immune and Absorb would still ignore them, but the levels of resistance would still be in effect, meaning that stacking resistance levels would still be a good idea, because if someone cut through your Immune/Absorb, then you'd still be able to fall back on the Resistance Lvls. you'd accumulated. I couldn't figure out a decent way to not make Immune/Absorb feel kind of tacked-on, though.)

(Alternatively, I've also considered doing away with the immune/absorb system entirely, and just make abilities that improve resistance up to simple 100% resistance, with immune/absorb being reserved for high-level skills, and coming with some sort of cost.)
>>
>>4249871
>First, regarding abilities and level maximums.
im more than fine with dropping the max down to 10/10/5, though a few things;

First, how come all hybrids now are level 10 max? seems a bit unnecessary for them to get such a massive boost to full levels, especially given part of the reason for the changes. seems like its incentive's hybridization a bit much too. i mean, no matter how good an ability is getting access to double the potential sooner cant hurt honestly, especially if points are now more valuable per. on top of the caveat all max level abilities can be hybridized(which you have no said if you plan to change though), i do feel it gives a ton more weight towards hybrids and away from standards. it also brings up the issue of capstones. can you really make a single free level balanced properly compared to double the max levels in both ability and stats? it feels like with such a higher discrepancy it would be too easy to lean on way or another. i suppose it will depend on just how much rarer points are now, but with How many hybrids we got and with incentives to hybrid eventually anyways, on top of the possibility of incentives to hybrid more often, it still feels like them being at 10 still allows for some level of bloat to still hit, though again, an estimate on how often we get levels will help here a bit, but i can still see issues arising with the worth of standard abilities over the massive difference in levels, and possibly still the number of levels aswell.

Secondly, how will these changes effect Augments, Passives, and Ability-Specific Augments, both in their commonality, and as we have them now? as for ideas, all i could think of is making them alot rarer but maybe like, mini-levels, such as 1-3 levels as a side tree, over trying to consolidate things that dont make sense into the core ability or into eachother. the biggest issue i think is the Arbiter. if im correct, it is why we only be 'universal' Augments now, over Ability-Specific, no? and i think the 'mini-tree' idea would only work with Ability-Specific. hell, with the new system, it makes Augments alot more dubious in general due to them being such a work around to avoiding bloat, regardless of anything else said. kinda i think wraps back around to the tree-caps. how do you make one level worth it over investing into the 5/10 tree, when points are now rarer, and vise versa to not making that single level TOO worth taking comapratively?

lastly, if you need some help reorganizing once this is finalized, feel free to ask. ill have to rework the public character sheets anyhow so ill already be in some form of the mud there as it is i suspect.

(1/2)
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>>4249994
>>4249876
sounds good to me. so long as we, you know, cough cough, had the actual rules somewhere to see, i think you could keep the 'flare' of the writing as 'immunity' and such, but i understand wanting it to be simple over stylish too.
i will say though, albeit depends on how you do it of course, adding in a list of resistances and such would still be difficult so long as some daughters have such sporadic ways to gain and lose it, though i suppose it could just be for 'permanent' levels, though my only concern then would be people not taking temporary into account.

bah, ill wait on that to see the new levels, and i suppose worse case just add a * or ~ or something to signify its malleability(on our end on our sheets at least). yeah, that'll probably work, especially(hopefully) with the number of things to keep track of in general going down significantly too.

>>4249871
>>4249876
one last question for now;
any plans or thoughts on relics? with bloat being in part a major reason to change things, do you plan to make even lower tier relics more expensive but possibly slightly more flexible to help stem relics from just becoming a replacement for growth, and do you plan to rework existing relics, especially levelables, to take into account the new balance? (id also be willing to help rework my own relics, such as the Sui line, once i see the new system too.)

(2/2)
>>
>>4249994
>>4249996
(I'm about to head to bed, so I'll be addressing these excellent questions first thing in the morning. I appreciate you taking the time to read through my rambling, and I hope you have a good night's rest as well.)
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>>4249937
for Absorption at leasy you could have how much is absorbed scale off of how many extra levels of resistance you have after the base to get Absorption, i think that would work swell honestly. Resistances already have the incentive of getting you less damage and eventually immunity, and then any after Absorption would now too.

the issue with full blown immunity is just... you cant add anything to that BUT healing, which is a thing you get later. you cant be any more immune than immune afterall.

i suppose you could 'cut out' immunity, or well, more like, have any levels immediately after immunity start giving absorption, again, based off how many levels over immunity you have. that way theres no dead zone between immunity and absorption, and it honestly does kinda make sense for extra levels after immunity to instantly lead to that.

you could just make levels of resistance rarer, OR, if you still want an 'absorption' unlock, make the increments of absorption all after immunity give you a very small amount, but once you hit where you want absorption to be, any levels after that ramp up the absorption level significantly compared to the 'dead zone' levels. keeps absorption sorta its own thing still, without leaving levels that give nothing, though it does still make absorption much less its own thing.

>>4250003
its no problem, and heres another for the stack hah.
you get some rest, and know im looking forward to it, and hope we can work this out splendidly together.
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>>4250003
Good night, BHOP. Sleep well.

>>4250013
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Have there be an intermediate stage between Immunity and Absorption. Each level over Immunity grants fractional Absorption, until you hit max. You can actually define the math for all damage-reduction as a single function that way, F(X)=D(1-cX), where D is the damage of the attack, c is a constant, and X is the number of levels of resistance. Suppose c=0.2, then five levels of resistance would get you immunity, since damage would F(X)=0. Six levels of resistance would get damage as a negative value, F(X)=-0.2D. You'd heal some damage, ignore the majority of the attack. Ten levels of resistance would get complete absorption, F(X)=-D. And then you should probably cap it there, or else you get more healing than the damage would have been, which probably shouldn't work. But still, it makes things much simpler to calculate.
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>>4250032
that depends both on how easy it is to get resistance levels and BHOP. getting more health back than the attack did is hardly the oddest thing for the Crucible to do so far. i think the biggest issue though is not making levels after max absorption dead levels, as a max absorption would just move where the problem lies technically.

mind you, you could also make 100%+ Absorption something specific abilities give, or again, like with the immunity dead-zone, simply make it after 100% again give absorption at a much slower rate. we'll see. the biggest thing i think to take into account here is BHOPS want for growth to always be viable and something to go after, over ever hitting a wall, which is also where some of my thoughts on Hybrids up above came from.
>>
>>4249871
>>4249876
A nice night typing away at Chapter 7 gets ruined by Mother preferring to yell at and call me down like a goddamn butler to watch over the family cat who is having kidney stone problems instead of asking my sister to help watch over the cat and treat it like a bonding opportunity. Apparently having a boyfriend gives her an automatic pass to just about every single goddamn house chore.

Bringing Cores and hybrids down to 15 and mono-non-cores to 10 is a good start. the second alternative is too big of a compression.

A question that brings up to mind to me now is simply the levels that each amalgam and slain daughter now yields. A total compression of the 20 level tree would mean the surviving daughters and amalgams would yield less biomass for a daughter to grow at this stage. Sure you're bringing meaning to choice more when it comes to leveling up, bringing the rarity of level up points up, but that also means demand for juicier bounties will go up as suddenly basic amalgams will be farmed and hunted more for sustenance and staving away hunger rather than growth by mid-to-endgame daughters while daughter who were born super late now have to deal with long-term daughters who acquired tons of levels and abilities crammed into their character page prior to the "Crucible Level Compression update".

In the meta/IC perspective, this would mean either more amalgam hunting that now carries a weight of trying to stave off hunger (due to the Abyssal Hunger world mod), and an increase in daughter v. daughter conflicts as more ambitious daughters will likely now try to hunt big game amalgams as well as adopt a vulture playstyle. I get that it shows how dire the situation's become and provides more meaningful choice, but it feels like the pace of the story is slowly accelerating to a point where it seems like it's all business for Shu and the family given the sheer feeling of time compression and time dilation dissonance between IC and OOC since Shu woke up/quest began.

>>4250053
>>4250013
For the immunity deadzone, why not give the levels invested after immunity a scaling chance to suddenly turn an ignored attack into absorption with the absorption rate going at the same rate as the scaling chance to absorb an attack?

For example: Exa has a lvl 7 resistance against heat, which means she's immune, but also gets a small chance to absorb the damage? her absorption chance/rate is 20%, so there will be a 20% chance she'll convert 20% of the damage normally ignored into healing.

Also, I have literally no idea why this came up, or why it somehow makes sense but hear me out: The dancing pallbearers meme in the Crucible. Have it be a random event. Just a group of Vitruvian and alien skeletons with snazzy suits carrying a bloody coffin housing Bhop's Corpse and dancing to an unknown song in a giant conga line that can't be interrupted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9V78UbdzWI
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>>4250129
>Bringing Cores and hybrids down to 15 and mono-non-cores to 10 is a good start. the second alternative is too big of a compression.
i disagree alot. i think even the second options still not enough honestly, especially when you take into account the bulk of each level is going to increase by a good margin. even with the 10/10/5, were still gonna probably be at a potential of 60+ things to keep track of per character by the end, and thats still without augments, passive, and relics being taken into account. except with trying to keep the feel and malleability of the levels, it will still probably feel like more than 60 aswell when you take into account all the little details and such. 10/5/5 or something would still be alot, but considering how you can only be expected to make each level have so much ,it would still make actually understanding, remembering, and finding things significantly simpler to pick up and use, even if each level has a bit more to it.
also, id assume hes doing a full overhaul, previous stuff and daughters would be brought in line as if this had always been the system(as best as can be done obviously). this i think is a purely mechanical change being treated IC as if it had always been this way, and things behind the scenes would be moved around and re-balanced to take that into account.

also, things ramping up kinda would make sense regardless.

>immunity deadzone
eh... i think that makes it too unreliable. i could maybe see if he goes the route of still 'unlocking' 100% Absorption after a certain point(Albeit with a much lower damage absorption when it does proc), but that would both be too sporadic for my tastes if thats all he does.
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>>4250155
>>4250129
>>4249871
actually, 8/6/6 might be better. still keeps the numbers low but doesn't leave such a massive staggering gap between any type of ability set, especially for Standard where the Capstone helps even things out too.

assuming the number crunching on BHOPS side works and he doesnt have a reason for steadfast sticking to integers of 5.
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>>4249876
This sounds interesting. I think i can work with that. Avenger will need some reworks but mostly just number crunching.

However the Zone between immunity and absorbtion feels kinda dead. SO doing what>>4250129 suggested seems rather useful on that front.

>>4249871
I would probably personally go for the lower one. reducing the levels to 10/10/5.
And nothing apart from extreme compression would honestly truly work. Or maybe it could be a 10/8(or 7)/5 split.

Let the Hybrids be a bit stronger than a normal skilltree while letting cores stay strongest with normal abilites being just that

This was honestly a question i was asking myself for a while (at least when i was not busy planning my next DND Session...Hooray for planning large Scale battles..... And thank fuck for Strongholds and Followers from Matt Colville)

Took me a while to get to this. While i finally got through to tech support this morning to reset my login credentials(i had been stuck in limbo for like three weeks on that) i cant change them on the Company IPad i have for my work in the office at home. So i have to wait now until i am back to the office where i can change it. So yeah... until then no more emails and no more shared project works i can take part in..... Horay
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>>4249374

"Thank you, truly.” You say, tentatively stepping forward for a hug that Beau returns warmly, to your pleasant surprise. “Your honesty even despite everything is more than I could ever ask for."

The girl in your arms laughs lightly at that, until you lean back a bit to hold her gaze.

"I’ll let you know, I plan to address the cult as a whole before I leave. I’d appreciate you being very discrete and careful with letting anyone know I’m here until I’m ready, but...I also think i can trust you to know who you might need to tell to prepare for that, and to make sure no unwanted ears overhear about it. Am I right?"

“Oh, totally.” Beau replies with a fervent nod.

"I promise I’ll do my best to learn and hear about all of this, and say what needs to be said how it needs to be said...but I’m sorry that I can’t guarantee nothing bad might come out of what I need to do here, either. I can only ask for forgiveness over anything that might happen, even if I believe doing and saying something here is the right course of action."

“Hey, it’s okay! You’re apologizing for things that haven’t even happened yet!” She snorts, grinning at you. “I think you’ll manage…and if things go sideways, then we’ll help out, okay? You keep saying we’re not alone, and neither are you.”

“Much appreciated.” You smile back…though you have to raise an eyebrow as Beau quickly eyes you up and down, even bringing the flat of her hand to compare your respective heights. “Uh…what’cha doing?”

“Just winning a bet, is all.” Beau cryptically replies, flashing you a grin just before giving you one last quick squeeze of a hug. “But yeah, I’ll keep things on the down-low. It’s been a pleasure, and just remember what I said about you not being alone in this thing, okay?”

You nod as Tabby draws closer, turning to the petite Neuromancer as you steel your nerves.

“I think I’m ready to talk to the Furies, if they’re good to go.” You declare, and you watch as the girl’s eyes shimmer with gold before she nods. You don’t have long to collect yourself when Dyna appears on the horizon, flanked by a pair of starkly different Daughters. The tallest of the trio stands a head over Dyna, loosing a bark of laughter when she realized who she’s been led to meet and grinning from ear to ear as she comes to stand before you.

“Shu – this is Dimezza.” Dyna says, jerking a thumb left towards the taller of the newly-arrived pair, following up with a gesture to the right; “And this is Alecto. Imma’ head out, but I’ll be around if you need me.”

(Continued)
>>
>>4250923

Giving the Paladin a thumbs’ up, you turn your attentions to the pair that stand before you, both of them more amused than surprised. Dimezza cuts in imposing, if ill-defined figure, her flesh practically roiling with movement just beneath her skin as large, canine shapes threaten to burst forth at any moment. Not even her face is safe from the movement of the half-formed pups, and as you meet her slitted eyes a flash of tooth and claw bulges out of one socket before submerging once more. Alecto’s the far more unassuming of the two, a hoodie-clad figure who barely comes up to the older girl’s shoulder. You can’t tell much about her power or corruption at a glance, but there’s something about the girl that seems to vibrate in place, a certain volatility that nags at your instinct and even irks you, on some level.

“Figured we’d meet, sooner or later.” Dimezza growls, folding her arms as she smiles down at you.

“Care to sit?” You offer, gesturing to the other chair. Dimezza pats Alecto on one shoulder, and the smaller girl wordlessly moves to occupy the too-large chair as the taller woman seems content to loom behind it, arms folded and resting on the back of the calloused seat. Resuming your relaxed position next to Uzu, the pair just stare at you in stony silence for a long moment before it’s broken by the towering young woman, wolfish grins flickering along her mouth and down her limbs.

“Can’t shake the feeling we’ve been called into the principal’s office.” Dimezza says, chuckling darkly. “So, Defiant – are we in trouble?”

Your eyes flit over to Alecto’s hooded face, her own gaze hidden from yours. She hasn’t moved since she sat down, and all the while Dimezza’s words hang in the air like rancid bait…

…and she’s waiting to see how you’ll bite.

>>”I’d like to start this off by saying that I want to hear about you from *you*. I want to hear your take on the Furies and what you stand for.”

>>”Well, ’principal’s office’ certainly isn’t the vibe I wanted to start off with…I’d prefer to begin with learning a bit about you two and how you came across Charon.”

>>”If you’re getting that vibe from me, then I’m curious to hear what you think I might be upset about. Last I heard from Charon, the factions were helping out around the Crucible…”

>>”The feeling’s mutual…but it doesn’t have to be. I want to talk. Get to know you both, away from a crowd. You and the others assembled in my name, so I’m just curious, is all.”

>>”You two - you have Skintalking, right? I’m getting the impression that you’re not exactly pleased with me…am I right in assuming that it has something to do with my interview with Orwell?”

>>Stay silent, and wait for one of them to speak.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next three hours. Also, I’ll be addressing some questions raised above…)

>>First, how come all hybrids now are level 10 max?

(Because I’m an idiot, and I meant to put 5. Cores=10, Consumed=5, Hybrids=5. I think the 10 for Hybrids came from Core Hybrids *maybe* going to 10, but I’m still iffy on that point. I may make it so that just straight Cores are the only thing that goes to Lvl 10, to make them a little more special and to have less to deal with in the long run. That *should* solve the problems you mentioned in the continuation of your question, but if you see something it wouldn’t, then let me know.)

>>Secondly, how will these changes effect Augments, Passives, and Ability-Specific Augments, both in their commonality, and as we have them now?

(I’m considering making them a bit rarer on the whole. I considered mini-levels, but that’s just more to deal with and read, which kind of defeats the point of the compression, in my humble opinion. Now, to make Augments more appealing I’m likely going to loop back to my original intention for them – a useful perk for a skill tree that also grants a bigger stat bonus than a typical level. That’s the general plan anyway, but if you have any advice or ideas, then let me know.)

>>lastly, if you need some help reorganizing once this is finalized, feel free to ask.

(It’ll be a herculean task, so while I’ll be going through it first to do the initial compression on my own version of the Character Sheet, I would appreciate you and anyone else who’s up to the task to give it a read-through when I’m done to ensure it’s…y’know. Readable. And not as wordy as I can sometimes get. Brevity is the soul of wit…and I’m not witty.)

>>any plans or thoughts on relics?

(Like you alluded to, I’ll be reviewing Relics post-compression to see if there’s anything else that can be done.)

>>Resistances/Immune/Absorb

(Actually, I kind of like the idea of a 10-point scale, like follows.)

0-Take normal dmg.
1-20% Res.
2-40% Res.
3-60% Res.
4-80% Res.
5-100% Immune
6-20% Absorb (Absorb 20% of incoming dmg as HEALTH, and so forth.)
7-40% Absorb
8-60% Absorb
9-80% Absorb
10-100% Absorb

(Thoughts?)

>>4250165
(Hm…I actually kind of like the 8/6/6 better, to be honest. I may work with that.)

>>4250129
(I fully endorse the Coffin Dance. It’s hilarious.)
>>
>>4250926
Vote;
>"I'd be lying if i didn't say i had reasons to suspect that might be what you need..."
>shrug, and give them a genuine smile.
>"But no, you're not, or at least i hope not."
>"Im simply here for now to learn, and listen. to give everyone their chance to talk and explain and give their take."
>"...but i also cant promise anything about what will happen next either."
>Chuckle, and lean forward.
>"So. please, if you're willing, care to indulge a curious stranger? id love to hear about how you two met, how you came to find out about this place, and why you stayed?"
>"What is it the furies stand for, believe in? Id love to hear from you..."
>look to Dimezza for a moment, and hold her gaze, before turning to Alecto.
>"...BOTH of you."
>>
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>>4250926
Found a better more stylish picture of Dimezza

>*sigh*
>"The moment I become a principle or a title is the moment I stop being who I am. A Defiant, a hunter of gods, an adoptive mother I may be, but an authoritarian I am not."

>”If you’re getting that vibe from me, then I’m curious to hear what you think I might be upset about. Last I heard from Charon, the factions were helping out around the Crucible. And I approve of that general kind of sentiment.”
>"So lets talk shop."
>"But before we talk shop, hear me out on this request when you speak."
>"Hold nothing back. Insults, biases, misconceptions, let me hear it all your words and your body language. My empathy field may be neutered, but even I can tell you have lots on your plate that you would like to spew out and get off your chest."
>"If you'd like I can make it a private conversation"
>”I’d like to start this off by saying that I want to hear about you from *you*. I want to hear your take on the Furies and what you stand for.”
>"I also would like to hear Alecto's take from her own words."
>”You two - you have Skintalking, right? I’m getting the impression that you’re not exactly pleased with me…am I right in assuming that it has something to do with my interview with Orwell?”
>>
>>4250923
>You smile back…though you have to raise an eyebrow as Beau quickly eyes you up and down, even bringing the flat of her hand to compare your respective heights. “Uh…what’cha doing?”
>“Just winning a bet, is all.
There's a bet about how tall Shu is? I know she's a relatively tall lady, but that still seems odd. What, is the rumor that we're a giant? Come on, we're probably like 6'1" at most.

>>4250926
>Dimezza cuts in imposing, if ill-defined figure, her flesh practically roiling with movement just beneath her skin as large, canine shapes threaten to burst forth at any moment.
Huh. Hive Mistress/Vitruvian, maybe? Interesting hybrid.

>You can’t tell much about her power or corruption at a glance, but there’s something about the girl that seems to vibrate in place, a certain volatility that nags at your instinct and even irks you, on some level.
I'm going to guess self-focused Neuromancy, possibly hybridized with some Phantasmal Conduit to draw energy from strong emotion.

>>Write-In
>"If this was the principle's office I'd be sitting backwards in this chair and calling you 'gang'. I'm not that much of a cliche, am I?"
>"Nah, you're not in trouble. Or at least I hope you're not, I don't actually know you. That's why I'm here. I've heard things, some good, some bad. But I figure it's best if I hear it from you, with no one else's bias."
>"So, mind indulging my curiosity? Honestly, I just want to know more, it would be pretty shitty of me to form an opinion on you girls without ever actually speaking to any of you. You've got me at a disadvantage, you've heard my words but I've never met you. Please, tell me about these Righteous Furies that have gathered here."
>>
>>4250928
>Because I’m an idiot, and I meant to put 5.
I apologize but this line made me reel with laughter. not what i expected, but it got me good. but yes, i think that more or less 'answers' most of the rest.

>I’m considering making them a bit rarer on the whole.
alright. at this point like i said, id have to see the re-work and how common/rare things will actually be to give any further opinions, which im certain you are still hammering out, so, could work, sure.

>I considered mini-levels, but that’s just more to deal with and read, which kind of defeats the point of the compression, in my humble opinion.
nah, you're right. plus with the hard compression the level difference isnt enough to really feel right either.

>Now, to make Augments more appealing I’m likely going to loop back to my original intention for them – a useful perk for a skill tree that also grants a bigger stat bonus than a typical level.
and how will this work with the difference between Ability-Specific Augments(which we cant get anymore), and just general Augments? that description sounds like its getting rid of general Augments and only making Ability-Specific ones appear now, or is this a case of too many uses for the same word again?

>I would appreciate you and anyone else who’s up to the task to give it a read-through when I’m done to ensure it’s…y’know. Readable.
im more than up for it.
does bring up one question/issue though... Hive Mistresses. their quirk doesn't exactly work well or fit with being compressed at all really. only Class as a whole i can think of that feels like it might not work in their current form/how you have given us them in this, while for the others i can only think of some specific Abilities that might possibly give a little bit of trouble.

>I’ll be reviewing Relics post-compression to see if there’s anything else that can be done.
Gotcha, sounds good.

>Resistances/Immune/Absorb
works for me. like i said, main thing for further thoughts will be on just how common resistance levels end up being.

>I actually kind of like the 8/6/6 better, to be honest. I may work with that.
Sounds good, looking forward to seeing how you hammer this all out either way.
>>
>>4250957
>There's a bet about how tall Shu is? I know she's a relatively tall lady, but that still seems odd. What, is the rumor that we're a giant? Come on, we're probably like 6'1" at most.
i think hes just heckling my earlier joke about them having something like that going on.

>>4250947
>>4250926
amending vote;
>"I'd be lying if i didn't say i had reasons to suspect that might be what you need..."
>shrug, and give them a genuine smile.
>"But no, you're not, Its not my way of doing things, even if ive heard rumor its what you might need a bit of... which i hope to find out is wrong."
>"Im simply here for now to learn, and listen. to give everyone their chance to talk and explain and give their take."
>"...but i also cant promise anything about what will happen next either."
>Sigh, and lean forward.
>"So. please, if you're willing, id love to hear about how you two met, how you came to find out about this place, and why you stayed?"
>"What is it the Furies stand for, believe in? Id love to hear from you..."
>look to Dimezza for a moment, and hold her gaze, before turning to Alecto.
>"...BOTH of you."
>"Hold nothing back, i want your honest take on anything and everything you're willing to say."
>>
>>4250928
So what's will happen to the augments that we already gathered? Will they be compressed? or will we keep them?

In retrospect it makes Augmentation heavy builds more powerful before the level compression patch as Daughters can still increase their power by investing back into their main ability trees now that augmentations have become a more rare commodity.
>>
>>4250987
(You'll be keeping your Augments, unless any issues arise...which I don't really foresee.)

>>4250962
>Because I’m an idiot, and I meant to put 5.
>I apologize but this line made me reel with laughter.

(Ha, glad I could offer a laugh, truly.)
>>
>>4250996
well, it will look and feel a bit out of place and janky to have that many in the new system i suppose, but actual mechanical issues i cant foresee no.

oh, well speaking of that, suppose it is a good thought/question the other Anon put forth though didn't directly ask. is this purely an OOC change, or are you planning to make this shift an IC thing?
>>
>>4250999
(I was initially intending to simply make it an OOC change, but I have to admit I'm toying with it being IC. We'll have to see, but it will likely end up being a ret-con.)
>>
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>>4251005
alright. ret-con certainly would be easier to do, even if it will probably leave some necessary artifacts of the change over with no real explanation, but thats fine. you do what ends up working best on your end... or just feels right, even if its a pain in the ass.
>>
>>4251005
I think a change of this magnitude works better as an OOC retcon. Just because so much about the Crucible's systems changing would feel like a really big event that the team would be obligated to investigate and get sidetracked on.
>>
>>4251005
OOC retcon is probably for the best. Some things just cant be explained away just like that.

Unless Everythign/Nothing intervenes but that would make no sense and pull way to much attention from the main plotline
>>
>>4251023
(Yeah, he has to be pretty hands-off at this point, so him intervening wouldn't make any sense.)
>>
>>4251026
He made something else angry.... Maybe the wife?

Maybe another true crucible winner..... That went for the true ending...
>>
>>4251032
More likely its coworkers. The Nothing has implied that it's not the only being responsible for the Crucibles. Presumably it going out of its way to talk to us has gotten it some disapproving looks.
>>
>>4251037
Maybe. But who knows. For all we know the crucible is how his kind reproduces and interfering would be considered.... well improper conduct around small children.....
>>
>>4251026
Oh, how will level compression affect Corruption? Seems like thresholds, when you start to gain it, and how much you gain it by would have to change drastically.

Hell the corruption changes might have a more noticeable IC impact than the other aspects of this change.
>>
>>4251041
(Given that level-ups won't be as big, then there will necessarily be more/faster corruption, so the next few levels you'll be taking will make the corruption more apparent on the Daughters that haven't shown it yet.)

(I'm considering having corruption start to kick into full gear around Lvl 3 or 4 in a given tree, but I'll be messing with that to see what feels right.)
>>
>>4251052
By the way OP i did notice that the Fan Work Sheet at the top of the page only contains the material for the Groups, Misc Works, Carter and the Pepperbox Gang.

Maybe at the time you didn't find it. I can still post the newest version of the Nexus again if you want me to.
>>
>>4251052
alright.
i suppose we didn't fully know those mechanics anyways so its hard to gauge, just something i realized IC will without a doubt have to be a 'memory hole' as it was, as you would have to lower how much max level corruption changes a daughter significantly for the change not to be noticed IC there.

biggest issue would be for those that dont start out giving corruption on the 5 level system, as suddenly having those last 2-3 levels have that much ramped up corruption would be very different. like party poppers except your teammate just yeeted you out a window because she just became 1/3 a dinosaur because she had a bag of Crucible Crunchies.
>>
>>4251058
(Oh! Please do, I'd like that to be added.)
>>
>>4251052
So we'll finally see what Amara is turning into, then? None of her skills have breached level ten, we've been focusing on diversifying her power set, so the only mutation she has are the cat ears from Predation's Insight and the blue hair and heterochromia that she's always had (the heterochromia might even be from before the Crucible, that is something some humans exhibit). I look forward to seeing what she turns into, I'm still hoping that it's going to be "ninja".
>>
>>4251062
https://docs.google.com/document/d/17ejDZVktHJJvuFtSNEbglCiuxXcksnRv7pNXLXdA1v4/edit?usp=sharing
This is the version that people can only look at and follow the links on


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YHEpTq1YGphXNSKuIe2IsT1IEO48EbSxdHwDuILB5qo/edit?usp=sharing
And this is the version anyone can edit if they so choose to do so.

You can use whichever version you want. i will keep both up to date.
>>
>>4251062
oh hey BHOP. not the most bodyhorror out there, but still a very neat concept here.
should be the current 3 Gifs this persons posted.
the odd but neat Dust girl Gifs, if it has shifted before you view them.
https://twitter.com/Nazoani_museum
>>
>>4251103
(Oh, this is slick. I love the fluidity of everything, and that's actually how I imagine Humoral Paladins merge.)
>>
>>4251162
...huh, i only just now realized in the first one they toss out two cats aswell when they do that too.
>>
>>4251164
(...a Hive Mistress too, I see.)
>>
>>4250926

"I'd be lying if I didn't say I had reasons to suspect that might be what you need..." You say with a shrug, before adding with a smile; "But no, you're not. It's not my way of doing things...even if some say you might deserve it."

"Ha - well, we'll see." Dimezza chuckles.

"I'm simply here to listen and learn. To give everyone their chance to talk, explain, and give their take....but I also can't promise anything about what will happen next."

Sighing, you lean forward in your seat. "So. Please, if you're willing I'd love to hear about how you two met. Maybe also about how you came to find out about this place, and why you stayed?"

"Okay...well, Alecto and I knew each other before all this." Dimezza explains, leaning in a little against the chair as she speaks. "She was up and about before I was, and she stuck around to make sure nobody bothered me. She's awesome like that. The two of us ran into Charon with our people when we finished helping a settlement with a little problem of theirs - just no-good bandits, really. Charon saw what we were doing, said they were helping people, and we saw a chance to do some good on a bigger scale."

"You said 'your people'. Were many of the Furies with you already?" You ask, and Dimezza grins.

"Yeah, there were already two dozen of us, and that number's only grown since more people've joined up with Charon. Some prefer the way the Vigilant or the Adherents do things, but we welcome the ones who really resonate with what we stand for."

"And what is it the Furies stand for, believe in? I'd love to hear from you..."

Shifting your gaze to the smaller girl, you add; "...both of you. Hold nothing back, I want your honest take on anything and everything you're willing to say."

"Justice."

In a mere two syllables, Dimezza gives you pause. That single word is a line in the sand and a loaded gun all at once. The woman that uttered it without hesitation and with utmost seriousness isn't smiling, anymore.

"Justice, in a world that didn't give it a chance before all this." She echoes as Alecto tilts her head up slightly towards her friend. "It wasn't long after Alecto and I started west that we learned about the Cord. About what it did, and about the neural copies of everyone from before. We resolved then and there to win this thing. And not just the way it expects us to win...I mean *really* win. With her abilities and my strength, we figured we'd pick up some numbers and make a play at ending the Crucible...and then, wouldn't you have it? A solid contender showed up out of nowhere, talking about returning power to the people."

Dimezza smiles, nodding towards you.

"You've given a lot of people hope for a better future...but you know that, already." She continues. "I guess it makes sense that you'd want to bring back everyone. You think everyone should have a choice, and that's fine. Honestly, you've given a lot of my girls exactly what they've wanted, in a roundabout way."

(Continued)
>>
>>4251197

"I'm...afraid I don't follow." You say, confusedly looking between the two Daughters. Dimezza just looks at you for a long moment, quietly sizing you up before she speaks again.

"Alecto, could you go find Dyna? I'll join back up after Shu and I are done here, alright?" She says, gently placing a hand on the small girl's shoulder. Alecto hops up and out of the chair, and it's as Dyna leads her a little ways away from you and Uzu that Dimezza slowly comes around the chair, deliberately taking her seat.

"May I ask you a personal question, Shu?" She asks, hands folded and hanging in front of her even as tufts of hair sprout only to be subsumed immediately by her ravenous flesh.

"By all means."

"Have you ever been taken advantage of?"

You blink. "How do you mea-"

"I don't just mean sexually. I mean have you had choice robbed from you. Have you had someone make a call that changed your whole life, one that you were powerless to stop?"

"I..." You hesitate, thinking back on Mother, on West...on Sam. "...yes. Yes, I have."

"Okay. Then you can understand, at least in some way, what every single member of the Furies has been through." Dimezza says, her voice flat and chillingly cold. "I was a social worker before all this. Saw a lot of things nobody has any business seeing happen to people it should never happen to...people that don't have as many years under their belt as you and me, if you understand what I'm saying. Do you understand what I'm saying, Shu?"

You glance at Alecto's back in the distance, the expressionless young woman silently walking alongside Dyna.

"I do."

"So when I say that Alecto and I wanted to go to the Cord and scrub the copies of everyone she and the rest of the Furies had been hurt by, you understand exactly what we're about." Dimezza says, your eyes widening at her declaration.

"You wouldn't be giving those people a choice."

"Oh, you're absolutely right...so given what you said on your interview, we made some adjustments I think the Furies can live with. They're honestly kind of excited." Dimezza nods, lips pursed. "Bring them back, if you want. The rapists. The abusers. The people that the old world let slip through the crippled, broken fingers of the law. Give them the choice they didn't give my girls. Man, woman...bring them back, Defiant. By all means."

Golden irises around jet-black slits, aimed at you. Unblinking. Unyielding.

Inconsolable.

"Because the only choice I'm going to give them is to face justice for what they've done...or run, and die tired."

>>"I can't condone what you're going to do...and if you decide to go through with this, I will try to stop you."

>>"...I see. I said I wasn't going to control things, and I stand by that. But if you're willing to let - even *encourage* - these young women to commit murder, then that blood's on your hands. Not mine."

>>You need some time to think on Dimezza's words, so ask her something else [Write-In]

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Voting shall remain open for the next three hours, Gentlemen.)
>>
>>4251201
>take a long, deep breath.
>"Look.... I understand. i do. There are some people who would be brought back who need to pay for what they did before all this, people who have done terrible things."
>"But thats the problem. you, right now, say it simply. Rapists, Abusers, the Grime of the earth...."
>"But what IS an abuser Dimezza? or, more importantly, how far does it go before they deserve death, over just being an ass?"
>"And once you and yours get that ball rolling... how long before that anger, that need for justice... keeps rolling?"
>"How long before its all just opinions, people who just had one bad day and didn't do anything truly wrong are suddenly getting torn asunder over a slight misjustice they may of done from only a certain point of view?"
>"How long before you're nothing but a roaming band of vigilantes all with their own views they're willing to drop someone over at the tilt of a hat, regardless of how wrong what they did actually was?"
>"...if Charon hadn't found you, if the Vigilantes and Adherents weren't here to counterweight you, could you honestly say you wouldn't be slipping too far into that by now... can you say you haven't seen any of it already?"
>Give Dimezza a few moments, keep eye contact, stand your ground.
>"I understand the anger, i understand the pain too."
>"But theres a reason im not letting anyone, even my family, even myself, be the arbiter of who is or is not worthy of coming back... and once they are? It'll do no one any good to let anyone pick up that torch. you think you hold it high, you think you keep it contained... but it'll be a raging forest fire no one can control in jut one blink."
>"I wont rule what comes next, hell, If im being honest id like to retire, not even have so much as a mayorship after this..."
>"But i wont stand aside and let injustices infront of me continue to happen either. That means any of those damned fucks fall into old habits? ill be right there with you to tear them apart."
>"But you or anyone else unfairly try and persecute each and every perceived sin? try and dig up any and all dirt and crimes just to put someone on the chopping block?"
>"A sword cuts both ways Dimezza... and your thinking too easily leads down a path where you end up no better than those who deserve whats coming their way."
>>
I'm thinking of pointing out that even the scum has loved ones. Loved ones that even if they understand that the person has committed crimes, still wouldn't want them to die or be tortured for it, and might try to seek revenge on those enacting their Justice. And that spirals out into a cycle of vengeance.

Shu did already face that kind of problem a little with Rath not wanting her family to come back but understanding Heather wants to save them still. That's kind of personal though, so I wouldn't use her as an example for someone we just met, or certainly not by name.
>>
>>4251247
there is some weight and point there yeah. dont think it exactly related to Raths situation though, but thats a different topic.
mainly it depends on the situation is why i think that parts a bit loose to be the only/main focal point. some people very much cross the line hard enough to where even their loved ones cannot justify being upset or seeking vengeance for them being punished. hell their family might even hate them or enact the punishment themselves given a less lawful world.

the main problem like i pointed out is just how opinionated that line and what counts towards that can get, and its only once the anger and hatred start boiling over that you might really get situations like you mentioned, where the person didnt really deserve punishment or that level of punishment. i can work in a bit though about that if you want though, its not a bad thing to bring up at all like i said, only not sure it works on its own.
>>
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>>4251204
>>(My face when I posted the version of the update that didn't include my re-write that pulled in the other votes.)
>>
>>4251253
Care for a bamboozle?

I know it's too late to bamboozle that post. But you could write another and retcon it to walk it back.
>>
>>4251258
(You have no idea how tempted I am. I was flipping back and forth between two writing programs I use, since I finally worked out the bugs in one but I ported the wrong text over from the less-useful one. If there's a split, I do try to bring in everyone's writings since they're always so good...)
>>
>>4251269
do it if you feel its right.
will probably have to rework my vote but hey, is what it is.
>>
>>4251271
(Literally nothing changes as for what Dimezza says, it was just your opening words to her, really.)
>>
>>4251269
please do if you feel tempted. Some added context would be wonderful.
>>
>>4251275
ah.
still though. do what you need. just... before it too late to delete the old, i suppose.
>>
>>4251280
>>4251271
>>4251278
(Ah, I'll leave it as-is. It doesn't look like 4chan's letting me delete it, anyway. The original one basically took the opening lines of >>4250957 and added in a bit of >>4250948 where Shu discusses her empathic field.)

(If anything, this just makes me want to save up for a new computer faster, now. Being able to work on Google Docs finally would be a dream come true.)
>>
>>4251201

>"I can't condone your sentiments. I can't condemn your anger. I can't chide you for the decisions you made. I sympathize with the pain you and your fellows have suffered."

>"The Crucible was thorough in its selection that it chooses daughters who have been trauma victims one way or another."

>"But what I can say is that I don't approve of your plans post-Crucible. You can call it justice, you can call it revenge, you can call it Karma, but as it is, you're treading a dangerous line. But cross that line and follow through with that ill-intent and you and the Furies will be no better than the ones they've been hurt by, because as it is right now? Those victims of abuse will have powers that they will gladly lord over the people they've been haunted by when the Crucible is stopped. That is 2 years of festering hate unleashed on vulnerable people unable to fend for themselves by women with inhuman superpowers compared to those who will be brought back. Soon, those people will be seeking refuge and help from social workers like you, and those people who survive will now be the victims of abuse with trauma on their minds and revenge in their hearts."
>"That's not helping people from recovering from abuse. That's creating more abusers and more victims. That's going against your line of duty as a social worker."
>"That's just starting a cycle of trauma, abuse, hate, and revenge."

1/2
>>
>>4251201
>>4251228
>Take a moment, and lean back, look down at your hands.
>”Dimezza… I know a girl. Wonderful at heart, but has a spirit, an anger to her i think you would appreciate all too well.”
>”But… she has a hangup we had to work through. She didn't want her family to be brought back. Strict, religious folks. Not abusive in the more… direct ways, but they still confined her. They still had a way of life they forced on her, that held her down, that caused her so much misery and pain. They abused her, on accident maybe, but she still couldn't be herself, still felt fear of what would happen if she stepped out of line.”
>”...but that didn't change the fact, we both knew neither of us had a right to stop them from coming back.”
>”Do they really deserve no second chance Dimezza? Do they really deserve to be hunted down and cut down like animals? Thats what i mean Dimezza. To this girl, the thought of her family coming back was more painful, more terrifying than anything she has faced in the Crucible… yet all they did was think they had a way of life that would help her, all they did was think they were saving her soul.”
>”Its not just about if it will lead down a dark path Dimezza, you already are on it. That family… may of hurt their daughter, but while it would be so easy to justify not bringing them back, or to let her views become law and let her throw all her might and hatred at them… its also just as arguable they did nothing wrong, or nothing so deserving of such a fate.”
>Sigh, and lean forward, meeting Dimezzas eyes again.
>”dont let anger blind you, dont let it control you or the furies lives. Theres a time and place for retribution, those that deserve it…. But if its all you preach, if its all you follow… pretty soon you’ll put down someone who didn't really deserve it… and those who loved them will be on YOUR heels, to get their due justice in on you.”
>”...and i just dont want to see anyone enter into that circle that never ends… i dont want to see people like you, whos hearts are so big… let it burn and shrivel up with hate… until you're the person someone else with a big heart has to put down.”
>>
>>4251318
>>4251201

>"That time spent in this Crucible or even post-Crucible can be better spent on helping the wounded and the victimized move on and let go of their past so they can heal as a person instead of being haunted by it. To dig deeper into their past and hold on to their grudges with a deathgrip won't do any of them any favors."

>"I'm telling you this to warn you of the hubris in your folly and that mindset you and the Furies subscribe to. Cross that line, and you'll be no better than the victims you seek to protect from abuse. Cross that line, and you'll become the abusers. Cross that line and I will have to stop you before it gets too out of hand."

>"I don't intend on being a law enforcer nor assume a position of authority nor leadership. But I cannot stand to hear nor see such ill intent and stand idly by."

>"But there's a reason I'm not letting anyone, even my family, even myself, be the arbiter of who is or is not worthy of coming back... and once they are? It'll do no one any good to let anyone pick up that torch. you think you hold it high, you think you keep it contained... but it'll be a raging forest fire no one can control in jut one blink."

>"I don't know if my words will reach through to any of you. And I know that having to let go of that hate and pain is hard to do, but believe me when I say this. I could have easily walked down that path of vindictive rage when...B'ni left and attacked me... I too was wronged, exploited and betrayed. I could have easily deleted Sam when I had the chance, I could have easily consumed B'ni and left her to rot in my dreamscape when I had her dead to rights...but instead I chose to let them go, gave them a second chance, and let bygones be bygones. It was painful, having to let go of your grudges and move on, but believe me when I say this. It was the right thing to do, and now I don't have to worry about their actions haunting me at every turn. If I can do it, then so can you and yours."
>"But if you still can't learn how to let go? If you still decide to stay mired in years of festering hate and frustration against people who literally cannot touch you now? If you still choose to go down that path of petty revenge? I cannot stop you from making that decision. But I will stop you from following through on it.

>"And if you do decide to go down that route...Be prepared to dig two graves."
>>
(Gentlemen, it appears that an obligation has come up on my end that will take the better part of the afternoon/evening, so I will be shuffling things around a bit - voting for the next update will remain open for the next four hours, and I should have some time late this evening to finish it off. I shall post it tomorrow morning at 10:00AM, with voting to remain open until 2:00PM.)

(My apologies for the delay, and if the revised schedule doesn't work for you for some reason, then please let me know. I'll still be checking in frequently, so let me know, and once again, my apologies for the unexpected delay.)
>>
>>4251319
>>4251228
>>4251201
grah, fuck me and this nonsense.
this is me adding a second part BHOP, not changing my vote. fucking hell i thought i copied that bit too.
>>
>>4251324
(No worries, I suspected you were adding a second part since they flowed so well.)
>>
>>4251323
I'm actually fine with this, I just got back from dealing with the pharmacy and I need a little time to compile my own thoughts on this. So I'm good with extending this voting period some.

As for your sudden obligation, I hope it goes smoothly and doesn't take up too much of either your time or mental energy to deal with. Take care of yourself, BHOP. Later.
>>
>>4251323
oh, well, i have to get up alot earlier than expected then to catch the update, but you do what you need to then BHOP. hope its nothing serious BHOP, and that it at least goes smoothly.

>>4251326
yee, just mildly annoying i missed copying that little bit, but thanks for understanding.
>>
>>4251318
>>4251322
this is kinda iffy to me ill admit.
some points i think need more attention feel rushed, while i feel like it focuses too much on just the Crucible or other very specific circumstances, over the morality and stances of it in general. feels like some parts lack a bit of emotion too, in exchange for actually sounding more like a principle lecture or something aswell.

It also feels like the ending is all off center. the last two lines sound like we might even cut her down here and now, or hunt her down after this is all over, over a general idea we wont simply stop helping after all this, and a more general sense the path she is on will lead others in general to possibly come after her just like she is others.

Im also unsure on Isabelle as a good example. it just... it has some weight yes, but so much of it was centered on the relationship of Sam and Isabelle with us just getting caught up it just feels too easy for it to be brushed off as not being the same level or severity Dimezza is talking about, which in alot of ways it isnt. Rath only fits better because of the dichotomy of parents and children, aswell as her family fitting the theme of not being here anymore but possibly being brought back.
>>
>>4251319
>>4251228
Looks like we've got relatively the same idea although the prose used varies wildly between us.

Think we can combine ideas? I think there are some lines from my vote that could be used to enhance your vote when written in your prose.

I can't help but find my writing and concentration split between something as severe as asserting our philosophy and that trying to write up the framework of chapter 7 and 8. What I've written in chapters 5 & 6 have drastically altered what's narratively feasible for the initial drafts that I have for 7&8. It's going under a major re-write with entire pages of sections either getting cut out or rewritten.

Chapter 7's framework key scenes is mostly there, with some spots that could make for a troubling transition, while chapter 8 is getting an entire rework from the ground up as I have to re-establish which key scenes actually fit.
>>
>>4251351
You're right on your analysis. my spoilered post here explains the reason why my write-in seems so roughshod: >>4251353
>>
>>4251353
maybe. would help a bit to have examples of what you think works from yours alongside mine, and all that. already a two parter so at this point expanding it a bit isnt a bad idea at least. lordy knows its a difficult situation.

deserved and understandable rage, but the flames blinding the person wielding it, instead of being used to guide their path in the dark.

oof, sounds like alot, but keep at it. im sure you'll figure it out.
>>
>>4251362
>>4251351
Can we point out the idea of being able to let go that sort of vindictive rage? Not necessarily chide them for it, but remind them that knowing what pains you is the first part of the step, with the rest being able to move past it in order to heal.
>>
>>4251362
Something I'm trying to write up but am having trouble phrasing is the idea of what exactly the anger they have could be blinding them to. Address the practicalities of seeking justice for everyone that they could be missing, because they're stuck in this mindset of "they'll either willingly submit to punishment for their crimes or we'll hunt them down in the street like dogs". Because there's no way that bringing everyone back is going to be simple and easy, there's going to be a rebuilding process. One that, if they're staying focused and not getting distracted, they can influence to get them what they want. We're going to have to build an entirely new society, they can get in on the ground floor and make sure it has a justice system that doesn't let people like that through the cracks. They're so used to the idea of being the victimized outsider that they can't see the potential to work within systems.
>>
>>4251379
ill think on where i could put that in, but at the moment no spots coming to mind. hrm... maybe after we give the Rath example i could put something in naturally, ride off the example to talk about that.

Hard because rage isnt outright bad, and theirs is also very justified. and there are also some who if they run into again... yeah, you cant really tell them not to break their spine. its just the utter lack of chance and the hunting them down, aswell as where that easily leads that makes that so... very iffy to not hold up an hand to try and stop. the law is far from perfect but theres a very good reason we have courts instead of just swinging axes around vigilante style, even if some will still deserve the death penalty/never seeing daylight again, whichever it is you believe.
>>
>>4251393
i get what you mean, but read again. Dimezza doesn't care if they will submit or not, she will hunt them down and kill them regardless. if they're sorry or not? if they have changed or not? her wording very heavily implies they die no matter what, which kinda nullifies alot of the ideas you have there.

mind you, it might even be in part because she understand trying to get them behind bars or something over killing them just wont be feasible, both from said lack of society and said new abilities they may have, but thats only me guessing and cant know for sure. she could just be so mad she doesn't care.
>>
>>4251396
>>4251407
I think we should ask the extend of how far deep in the rabbit hole of rage and revenge the furies are just to gauge how malleable they are to the idea of mercy and being able to move on.
>>
>>4251409
not sure the people who are filled with rage are the best to gauge their own rage and how far its going on their own, which i think is part of the problem.
>>
>>4251407
Maybe I'm just being too optimistic in thinking that they'd be okay with non-fatal punishments so long as people submit. That the abusers who are willing to face their fate will be given some clemency, and it's only the ones who still try to escape justice that will be treated so harshly. You're probably right, though, and they want to kill them all.

Still, I think there's something to the idea. Pointing out that being distracted by the desire to seek retribution and how it could prevent them from making sure this doesn't happen again. And no, "everyone's too scared of the mutant ladies killing them for being abusive" is not going to make sure it doesn't happen again, study after study has shown that fear of violent punishment is actually a very poor way to prevent crime. But maybe that's a conversation best saved for later, talking about the practicalities of implementing change in the new world. I don't know.
>>
>>4251419
yeah... i think part of the problem is, if we dont hit at and work on the root of the issue, them being in law/government rebuilding might actually end up worse than them being vigilantes, or at least could be just as bad. hate to say it, but i could see them twisting reconstruction and lawmaking to be beyond what i reasonable over their fears and anger and need for retribution, and just instead cause an unfair justice system or something instead of just going out and ignoring wanting law to take care of it at all.
>>
>>4251407
>>4251419
we have about 3 hours left to discuss and come up with a well cohesive argument this before voting closes The best time is now.
>>
>>4251201
>>4251228
>>4251319
>>4251324
slight Amendment;
>take a long, deep breath.
>"Look.... I understand. i do. There are some people who would be brought back who need to pay for what they did before all this, people who have done terrible things."
>"But thats the problem. you, right now, say it simply. Rapists, Abusers, the Grime of the earth...."
>"But what IS an abuser Dimezza? or, more importantly, how far does it go before they deserve death, over just being an ass?"
>"And once you and yours get that ball rolling... how long before that anger, that need for justice... keeps rolling?"
>"How long before its all just opinions, people who just had one bad day and didn't do anything truly wrong are suddenly getting torn asunder over a slight misjustice they may of done from only a certain point of view?"
>"How long before you're nothing but a roaming band of vigilantes all with their own views they're willing to drop someone over at the tilt of a hat, regardless of how wrong what they did actually was?"
>"...if Charon hadn't found you, if the Vigilantes and Adherents weren't here to counterweight you, could you honestly say you wouldn't be slipping too far into that by now... can you say you haven't seen any of it already?"
>Give Dimezza a few moments, keep eye contact, stand your ground.
>"I understand the anger, i understand the pain too."
>"But theres a reason im not letting anyone, even my family, even myself, be the arbiter of who is or is not worthy of coming back... and once they are? It'll do no one any good to let anyone pick up that torch. you think you hold it high, you think you keep it contained... but it'll be a raging forest fire no one can control in just one blink."
>"I wont rule what comes next, hell, If im being honest id like to retire, not even have so much as a mayorship after this..."
>"But i wont stand aside and let injustices infront of me continue to happen either. That means any of those damned fucks fall into old habits? ill be right there with you to tear them apart."
>"But you or anyone else unfairly try and persecute each and every perceived sin? try and dig up any and all dirt and crimes just to put someone on the chopping block?"
>"A sword cuts both ways Dimezza... and your thinking too easily leads down a path where you end up no better than those who deserve whats coming their way."

(1/2)
>>
>>4251201
>>4251432
>Take a moment, and lean back, look down at your hands.
>”Dimezza… I know a girl. Wonderful at heart, but has a spirit, an anger to her i think you would appreciate all too well.”
>”But… she has a hangup we had to work through. She didn't want her family to be brought back. Strict, religious folks. Not abusive in the more… direct ways, but they still confined her. They still had a way of life they forced on her, that held her down, that caused her so much misery and pain. They abused her, on accident maybe, but she still couldn't be herself, still felt fear of what would happen if she stepped out of line.”
>”...but that didn't change the fact, we both knew neither of us had a right to stop them from coming back.”
>”Do they really deserve no second chance Dimezza? Do they really deserve to be hunted down and cut down like animals? Thats what i mean Dimezza. To this girl, the thought of her family coming back was more painful, more terrifying than anything she has faced in the Crucible… yet all they did was think they had a way of life that would help her, all they did was think they were saving her soul.”
>”Its not just about if it will lead down a dark path Dimezza, you already are on it. That family… may of hurt their daughter, but while it would be so easy to justify not bringing them back, or to let her views become law and let her throw all her might and hatred at them… its also just as arguable they did nothing wrong, or nothing so deserving of such a fate.”
>Sigh, and lean forward, meeting Dimezzas eyes again.
>”That fuel, that fire and rage? Dont let it blind you, when you could use it to light your path and lead you out of the dark, when you could use its warmth to heal your and others wounds, instead of using it to burn everything in your path down."
>"Dont let it rage as an inferno until it starts to consume you and them too."
>”dont let anger blind you, dont let it control you or the furies lives. Theres a time and place for retribution, those that deserve it…. But if its all you preach, if its all you follow… pretty soon you’ll put down someone who didn't really deserve it… and those who loved them will be on YOUR heels, to get their due justice in on you.”
>”...and i just dont want to see anyone enter into that circle that never ends… i dont want to see people like you, whos hearts are so big… let it burn and shrivel up with hate… until you're the person someone else with a big heart has to put down.”

(2/2)
>>
>>4251201
Amending my votes:
>>4251322
>>4251318

to support
>>4251432
>>4251437

I've...got nothing to add.
Can't think of anything to contribute. Many of the points have been touched upon already.
>>
>>4251362

I've hit a rather large snag in the epilogue.

I'm at a loss on how Carter would behave when he's reminded/told that he slept with multiple women for the purpose of purging a sex-cult created drug out of his system while Carter was black-out drugged. The first thing that came to my mind is that he would be angry and grumpy as hell, but that's as far as I can go because I don't really know how to recover the story from that point onward as I can't help but feel Carter's outlook would be forever soured even if he was told the women he slept with willingly consented and volunteered in order to purge the relic-forged-drug out of his systems.

I'm trying to entertain other options for my initial draft but they would require extensive reworking of Chapters 7&8.

Care to help me out with your 2 cents?

Speaking of which relic drugs. I think I just entertained the idea a problem that could happen post-crucible: Forge-Drugs. Consumable Relics that act as hardcore drugs not unlike the Altered Altar's drug use to calm hunger.
>>
>>4251201
Oh, yeah, never voted in support. Let me do that real quick before the voting period ends.

>>4251432
>>4251437
Supporting.

>>4251803
>Speaking of which relic drugs. I think I just entertained the idea a problem that could happen post-crucible: Forge-Drugs. Consumable Relics that act as hardcore drugs not unlike the Altered Altar's drug use to calm hunger.

Honestly, if people are just using Forges to make drugs, post-Crucible, I will be thankful. They're some sort of infinite energy generator possibly powered by being connected to the home-dimension of a Great Old One. Even if nobody unlocks some horrifying physics research from them, we know that they're at minimum capable of being turned into nuclear-grade explosives. These things are dangerous, one of the things we do when we activate the Ecosystem/Civilization Reboot function is hoover up any unattended Forge Cores, keep them out of dangerous hands. Don't steal any from people who already have some, but at least limit the supply waiting to just be picked up.
>>
>>4251803
i probably would need a bit more context to all this that might be major spoilers to fully understand his mindset, but from what you have just told me he probably wouldn't take it well at all, 'angry and grumpy' would be underselling it.

he would probably honestly be close to hunger madness upon first learning of that, and would probably have to both leave and never see those girls again to try and avoid any issues he has with all that, essentially trying to outpace the problem. considering everything, he wouldn't care if they consented, his problem would be he himself didn't. he would probably understand they tried but couldn't find another method to purge the drug, but considering everything this story has put him through on top of his past, it would be a 'forgive but cant forget' situation, where he could maybe reconcile with the intent of what they did but not the actual implementation, and would probably set him a few steps back in a different direction in terms of any progress towards opening up to people. make him wish to move on and try and forget them and the entire ordeal however he can.

he would probably also hate himself a bit for not being strong enough to overpower the drug and letting that happen too, even despite any logic of understanding relics and crucible powers just dont really work that way.
>>
>>4251803
>>4251824
i mean, sadly i think Forges will be crucial to leave out for people to use. too useful to rebuilding society, and too many relics already about to where they might be necessary to keep the power balance in check. plus, you know, hoarding them all up kinda feels like mothering the world a bit.

that is, assuming we dont basically cut ourselves/our Crucible off from that and other such things when we end it 'incorrectly'. (which we dont know, but do know its not impossible our plans might not fit in with the 'Mother of All' ending either. could, but we cant confirm that in either direction really.)
>>
>>4251845
We can distribute them to settlements, where they can become part of municipal infrastructure. It's not that I don't think people should have them, I just don't want them to be lying around. It's like nuclear power. I trust people to operate nuclear reactors. I don't trust a world in which you can go hiking and stumble upon a nuclear reactor waiting for someone to take it home with them. It's two very different levels of security.

As for the Forge Cores shutting down, entirely possible. Same with our powers. All the matter and energy Crucible biology needs comes from some extradimensional source. Winning the Crucible properly and shutting it all down may break that connection, too. Either just as a consequence of turning the systems off, or as an intentional action on the part of the Nothing and its peers. We'll have to see how it goes. I do hope that we can at least keep something good, though. Like, even if things shut down, humanity still learns some cool new science that we use to make our own advanced tools. But we'll just have to see how it goes in the endgame.
>>
>>4251834

Thanks for your valuable input anon, I was afraid Carter would behave like that, hence my asking. If I were to continue writing this path, then it would have the opposite result and development that I intended for Carter to progress through, and it is clearly not what I intended to write. Therefore I will have to take another close and serious look at my drafts to see what works and what doesn't work as it's telling me it's both a bad idea AND it will be executed.
>>
>>4251862
eh, Forge Cores are far too important for us to not be hypocrites to control their spread and distribution like that. taking control of that is too much of exactly what we said we wanted to avoid doing.

it might end up being on a biological level our abilities can and are kept, its just the amount of biomass and such we have to work with is now limited to whatever our physical bodies have to work with, and maybe any extra meat you carry around with you. but yeah, we'll have to see how it goes.

>>4251865
well, glad it helped i suppose. take your time, and im sure you'll think of something.
>>
>>4251896
I have all the time to think about it yet impatience gnaws at my mind. Such is hubris. Your feedback's put several previously discarded ideas back on the table thankfully, some of them may help me connect the key scenes in a more natural way and maybe leave Carter on a better footing with better self-confidence after the entire ordeal.

>>4251896
>>4251862
Forge cores and crucible related technology will be a very contentious subject in the endgame and post-crucible earth, not to mention what might happen should we end the crucible in either the wrong way or the proper way.
>>
>>4251896
>eh, Forge Cores are far too important for us to not be hypocrites to control their spread and distribution like that. taking control of that is too much of exactly what we said we wanted to avoid doing.
I get the scenario you're worried about, Shu monopolizing access as a means of control. "Agree with Shu's morals, or you don't get vital infrastructure". But at the same time, I can't accept the idea of just leaving a bunch of dangerous machines scattered around with no restriction on them. And there's also just the fact that if Forge Cores are going to be so important for infrastructure, we don't want them lying around in the wilderness because that means they're not being used to help people. There has to be some way we can quickly get the Forge Cores into the hands of people who will use them for good without it leading to Shu having undue influence over the developing society.

What if we took Shu out of the equation? Take everyone out of the equation, in fact, make it an automated process. Program the reconstruction process to take unattended Forge Cores and distribute them to settlements that need them. Not continuously, so there's this constant shifting access (that would be a nightmare, and also make any biases we failed to remove from the selection criteria become very pronounced), but just as the initial set-up when we start things rebuilding. I don't know, maybe that's infeasible, there's still so much we don't know about the reconstruction. But I want to think that we can optimize this. Establish security, don't harm freedom, help rebuild society faster.
>>
>>4251973
yeah... no. see, this is the thing. when we decided not to rule the world and leave things up to the freedom of humanity to figure out and decide upon, Forge Cores, Old World Lost Tech, Engines... all of that was included in that package. just like we bring back murderers and rapists knowing they might very well abuse the situation and continue to do bad, we cannot in any way take control of how or where technology and assets get distributed. its not our place to decide or control those things, no matter how dangerous or useful they are. the minute we decide that, even an automated system, is the minute we have gone past letting choice and humanity matter, and made it about what we think is best or think should be done.

its a risk, even a devastating risk, but its no more one than we already would and do have now. its no more a risk than the utter devastation letting some of these abilities stick around could be, and no less out of our control than the DOs having nukes and technology powerful enough to where they think they can escape the Crucible. its simply not our place to make those decisions or control that outcome.
>>
>>4251973
>>4251862
The power to impose worldly change on the world with divine authority is ripe with abuse. Fudging the admin control to make forge cores and automated process is essentially rendering Shu a hypocrite. Even going around post-crucible hoarding Forge cores and ensuring equal distribution would render Shu a hypocrite because that's her robbing choice and opportunity from other people.
>>
>>4251999
though at least with her doing it personally shes not abusing giving herself godlike powers and control, over being as close to an equal as you can be and having to actually go about it like anyone else would. still probably hypocritical, but much much less so id argue, with a bit more argueability to doing such a thing.

probably wouldnt be worth the effort though. finding them, collecting them, then finding a place worth giving it too would be... very tedious for sure.
>>
>>4251991
>>4251999
>>4252009
Okay, I'm completely lost on what our goals are, then, and I don't know how to ask without you yelling at me for being an idiot. Like, aside from the general goal of "revive humanity", I'm so lacking in understanding of our aims that I feel like any attempt to reach clarity would just make it look like I'm being deliberately obtuse. I swear I'm not, though, I just am very confused right now, and it's making me worried that there's something wrong with my thinking. How long have I been up, am I just delirious from exhaustion? I don't think I've been up that long. I'm still going to go to bed, though, maybe this will make more sense in the morning.
>>
>>4252060
i think the issue is you think we HAVE overarching or grand goals.
we dont, and thats the point. our goal is to do the bare minimum necessary to free humanity from the grasp of the Crucible and its rules so as to allow Humanity to again have a future for it to decide on its own, for better or worse. our only goal is to restore freedom to humanity in as the Crucible robbed it from us.

all thats required for that is bringing everyone who was taken by the Crucible without a choice back, getting rid of the imposed rules of the Crucible that make natural sustainable living impossible(such as the hunger and mechanics that ensure no ecosystem within it can thrive or last to force an eventual winner), and do the bare minimum necessary to ensure the world and ecosystem itself can exist without the Crucible and its rules. all we want is to give back Humanities freedom and future to itself, and ensure no one else can later come and abuse the Cord to undo that.

thats it. nothing else. no Shu on a golden Throne. No deciding who lives or dies, both current and of those that come back. no making things a safe, perfect utopia.no ending world hunger, no ending pain, no rewriting humanity to be a better species, both physically or morally. no popping out a Forge Core and Engine into each and every settlement, or getting rid of all of them(besides if for some reason doing so is necessary for our base goals or something), and no ensuring Settlements even survive.

its not ours or any others place to decide what humanities future or goals will be, or to ensure we thrive or die. its only ours to return that choice as much as it ever was TO Humanity, over the Crucible. whatever happens next, will be up to the survivors to hammer out and figure out.
>>
Right, got some sleep, feeling more lucid, let me try to make sense of things.

>>4252073
No, that's not the issue, because that's what I want too. I think the point of confusion I was having is that it sounded to me like we weren't doing that. So okay, let's discuss to make sure I understand: How are we defining "minimum requirements"? What is the least we need to do to enable humanity to have a chance to rebuild and take control of its own destiny?

I think, and I guess this perspective is not shared but I want to at least explain it, that we need to distribute tools and resources as part of that minimum intervention. I don't want to make some sort of utopia, like you said it's not our place to try to force humanity to thrive according to our plans. But it is our place to ensure humanity survives. At least in the short term, if decades or centuries down the line we wipe ourselves out, then that's on humanity. We deserved that. But if humanity dies out soon after ending the Crucible, then that's us having failed to properly fix things. And I'm worried that's going to happen.

Because the Earth is in ruins, right? We've seen that most shelter is damaged or destroyed, utilities like power generation or water management are offline and the networks in tatters, and there's no food production. Even with the ecosystem restored, the planet is in no condition to house a population of seven billion. Even with Daughter abilities to help in rebuilding, you're going to see a lot of death before things stabilize. I think we have an obligation to minimize those deaths however we can. And the best, most egalitarian way to do that is to widely distribute tools and resources to help in rebuilding. It doesn't have to be Forge Cores, I can bend on that specific issue, but it should at least be some sort of aid package. Get everyone back up to the level where they're not struggling to survive for reasons outside their control, and move forward from there.

Of course, I admit that's based on a lot of assumptions about how the reconstruction works. Maybe it won't put people back where the Cord took them from, but rebuild them inside the Cord. Plenty of space for an arcology capable of housing all mankind. Interim housing, with basic but unsatisfying accommodations so that people want to go out and rebuild the Earth, but it can be safely done in stages. Or maybe the reconstruction would be able to put everything back exactly as it was before the Crucible, and so we'll be able to recover and repair all of human infrastructure to pre-Crucible levels. I am fully willing to admit that I could be totally wrong about the necessity of distributing resources to avoid massive Malthusian death. I guess I should have prefaced the entire thing with a "assuming worst-case conditions where humanity is revived in-place, leading to thousands of scattered communities cut off from essential resources and with no infrastructure". That would have made this less of a hassle.
>>
>>4252541
and i highly disagree with all of that basically.
ignoring the issues with the fact we dont know the indepth of what we can do or will need to do, its still not our place or goal to do any of that. Humanity is already finding ways to survive without us, and while yeah they'll be issues and even death and suffering, they'll find it out without us so long as we set the world up to even be able to survive without an overseer.

we sit there and decide to try and herd people like cattle and decide exactly what they will need and deserve to get to survive, then it both might never end, breaks from what we wish to do, and will start to incentive people and groups to rely on us and our handouts over finding their own way to survive, no matter how minimalistically we try and keep it. we have no obligation to do any of that, and id even argue if we have any obligation, its the opposite. hell, id even argue leaving the world off needing to struggle so they come to be discontent with Shu or even hate her would be a good thing, but thats also based off some ideas not wrapped up in this current conversation.

all we should or need to do is stop the decay and make it possible for stabilization to happen, not actually stabilize things. again, it what we need to do and how will depend on 'what ifs' neither of us can answer right now, but assuming things stay 'similar' to what they are now, no, its not our job or goal to even give them tools. those already exist or the resources and means to make them already exist. its up to them to figure it out and survive, otherwise the point of them being given freedom and us not taking control was pointless. the minute we decide anything to any level such as even that, is the minute we may aswell give up on not just being a god who controls every little detail of their lives. if they struggle to survive, then so be it. its their job to find a way to move forward, to either be strong enough to move forward, come together to find a way, or fail and wither out. they figure out how to survive on their own, no handouts, no tool or resources given anymore freely than the earth ever gave them out, or they die. but if they die, then so be it. its terrible, but people dont grow in luxury. again, if they cant find a way without us, then there was no point to any of it.
>>
>>4252563
>>4252541
Though we have to decide one thing i think.

How many resources are we gonna take for ourselves?

We have no obligation to everyone else but we have an obligation to assure that our family will survive. Otherwise with the deaths of us or our family this would be pointless as well. Not for Humanity but for Shu and family on a personal level.
>>
>>4252570
well again, so much of that will depend on just what we can do or happens. but i dont think we'll need to directly take anything. we'll either have the connections available to just integrate into a settlement, and/or enough of our own stuff simply saved up to not need to take anything else.
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>>4252563
Why are we even bothering, then? No, really, why isn't Shu just fucking off and claiming the Cord the normal way and playing exactly like Ozmas did? Why do we care enough to help people, and save them, and prevent them from unnecessary death and suffering? If it's okay to stand back and let it happen to billions of people under the logic that if they really wanted to survive, they'll figure something out, why is it not okay on the individual scale?

>>4252570
Presumably we won't be sociopaths, and integrate into a society. Help rebuild, establish security and prosperity, make it so that sort of resource hoarding isn't necessary.
>>
>>4252621
i am pretty sure resources will be tight for at least some time for everyone. (Probably enough time that quite a few people will die from exposure/ lack of food, predators and such) If we really want to integrate into a society we need to bring things to the table that will be valuable for them as well.

and sure most people would be happy to help us out for quite awhile but we cant be leeches. Good Will eventually dries up.

But i agree with you we shoudl prepare for a worst case scenario
>>
>>4252629
Yeah, the party might wind up with some odd jobs. Shu's entire career experience involves fighting mutant monsters, in a world without those it would take some adaptation. But I feel confident we can find things to do, even if it's just as laborers. Going to be plenty of need for spare hands. Especially if Daughter abilities remain, then Shu could harvest an entire field with nothing but herself and some swarmlings. Farmer Shu, they call her.
>>
>>4252621
what? because the Crucible is a massive, artificial shift imposed on us that forces some form of ending, and if it gets its way it guarantees everyone dies. we're still helping people tremendously by even just breaking the Crucible and restoring some form of freedom, its giving them both time and a chance the Crucible by design makes impossible so long as its still running.

You're also acting like there is no difference between helping those right infront of you on a micro scale, compared to dictating everything to everyone on a macro scale. Shu can and probably still will help out locally wherever she ends up after the Crucible, but there a massive damned difference between say, helping Laoc as they ask or need it with your own strength, compared to hijacking a foreign parasite thats put a death grip on the entire planet to decide alone what is or isnt best for humanity, regardless of how much you actually do with it.

its utterly simple. we're doing this because even doing what i said is still making sure Humanity even has a damned chance or choice at all, whereas winning normally ensures the exact opposite, or doing nothing at all is just even from a selfish standpoint risking letting someone else win and kill you along with the planet, on top of the fact of course breaking the crucible like i said is helping everyone.

its literally the difference between living our own morals, and forcing them on everyone. we help those individually because they ask or need it individually and we're there to do something. we dont tell Laoc how to run things, now do we? because its not our place to enforce our viewpoint on them no matter how much we prefer it, its at best only our job to convince them of it.the scale also matters. humans are humans, and Shu is no exception. what may be minor to you, might be a thumb squishing everything one cares about to another. once we try and use something as big as the Crucible to any degree over the bare necessary minimum it forces us to use it to even be able to exist, we ARE forcing something on someone somewhere, possibly even a massive chunk of the population. and no one has should have the right to do that, especially with so much power behind us to possibly just flick any dissenters away. Shu, our family, anyone else? none of them should have that right. if the Crucible wasnt a threat to the very survival of humanity in a very direct and deliberate way, we wouldn't have any excuse to even be doing what little we plan to do either, but theres a line between struggling to survive and guaranteed destruction of your entire race. the Crucible was made to basically fore the second, being hands off and leaving people to figure things out for themselves does not guarantee the second, or even the first, even if it does leave the first a possibility.

the world doesn't need an administrator, even temporarily. it just needs to not be designed to decay no matter what anymore.
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>>4252638
That's great, anon, but you're not answering the question I asked. Why is it okay to let billions of people suffer and die, but not okay to let one person suffer and die? Nothing about forcing morals on people, that wasn't your argument. Your argument was that it's not our job to keep people from dying in agony, that if they don't want that they should be self-reliant and find the strength to move forward on their own. So why do billions of people have to live by that rule so long as we don't see them, but anyone we do see gets to be coddled with aid? Doesn't seem fair, being pretty biased towards the individual. They don't deserve that.
>>
>>4251201

Drawing in a long, deep breath, you struggle to find the words to address the woman that sits across from you...and when you finally speak, you feel like it's across a vast, yawning chasm.

"Look.... I understand. I do. There are some people who would be brought back who need to pay for what they did before all this, people who have done terrible things." You admit, seeing a flicker of something like hope in Dimezza's golden eyes. "But that's the problem. You, right now, say it simply...rapists, abusers, the grime of the earth...but what IS an abuser, Dimezza? More importantly, how far does it go before they deserve death, over just being an ass? And once you and yours get that ball rolling, then how long before that anger, that need for justice keeps rolling into something unstoppable?"

"It shouldn't stop." She replies simply, her eyes hard. "Justice should never, ever stop moving. It did in our world, and that's half the reason my girls found themselves where they did."

"No, Dimezza...how long before its all just opinions, people who just had one bad day and didn't do anything truly wrong are suddenly getting torn asunder over a slight misjustice? How long before you're nothing but a roaming band of vigilantes with a warped code that says it's fine to willing to take a life and the drop of a hat, regardless of how wrong what they did actually was? That's not justice, Dimezza - that's whim. That's murder."

"My girls are my responsibility." She replies calmly. "They get their justice, and that's it. They stop. I'm the one that'll make sure of that."

"...If Charon hadn't found you, if the Vigilantes and Adherents weren't here to counterweight you, could you honestly say you wouldn't be slipping too far into that by now? Can you say you haven't seen any of it already?" You counter, alarmed at the woman's adamant optimism even as you hold her gaze and stand your ground. "I understand the anger. I understand the pain, too. But there's a reason I'm not letting anyone, even my family, even myself, be the arbiter of who is or is not worthy of coming back...and once they are? It'll do no-one any good to pick up that torch. You think you hold it high, that it's contained in your grasp, but it'll be a raging forest fire no one can control th second your hand slips...and it *will* slip, Dimezza."

She makes a small sound, something that's between a cough and a laugh that makes you shake your head.

"I won't rule what comes next." You continue, chuckling lightly. "Hell, if I'm being honest I'd like to retire. Not even have so much as a mayorship after all this...but rest assured, I won't stand aside and let injustice continue."

"Oh?"

(Continued)
>>
>>4252654

"Any of those damned fucks fall into old habits? Then I'll be right there with you to tear them apart." You declare, earning an appreciatively raised eyebrow from the woman seated across from you. "But...if you or anyone else unfairly try to persecute each and every perceived sin? If you try and dig up any and all dirt and crimes just to put someone on the chopping block? Then I'll be there, and I won't be on your side. A sword cuts both ways Dimezza... and your way of thinking can all too easily lead down a path where you end up no better than those who deserve what's coming their way."

"That's...fairer than I expected." She admits, relaxing her grip on the armrests slightly.

”You know what, Dimezza?" You say, realizing something as you look down at your knuckles. "I know this girl. She's wonderful. She's kind, she's caring, she's...well, she's the most passionate girl I've ever met. She's got this spirit, this anger to her I think you would appreciate all too well.”

”But she has a hangup we had to work through - she didn't want her family to be brought back. Strict, religious folks. Not abusive in the more…direct ways, but they still confined her. They still had a way of life they forced on her, that held her down, that caused her much misery and pain. They abused her. On accident maybe, but she still couldn't be herself, she still felt fear of what would happen if she stepped out of line.”

Slowly closing your hands into fists, you can't help but imagine a pair of shining citrine eyes even as you close your own.

”...But that didn't change the fact that we both knew neither of us had a right to stop them from coming back. Do they really deserve to not have a second chance? Do they really deserve to be hunted down and cut down like animals? That's what I mean, Dimezza. To this girl, the thought of her family coming back was more painful, more terrifying than anything she's faced in the Crucible. Yet all they did was think they had a way of life that would help her, thinking they were saving her soul.”

”It's not just about *if* it will lead down a dark path...you're already walking it, Dimezza. That family may have hurt their daughter, but while it would be so easy to justify not bringing them back, or to let my friend's views become law and let her throw all her hatred at them, it's also just as arguable that they did nothing so deserving of such a fate.”

With a sigh you look up, catching Dimezza's gilded gaze.

”That fuel, that fire and rage? Please don't let it blind you when you could use it to light a path out of the dark. When you could use its warmth to heal your wounds and those of others, instead of using it to burn down everything in your path."

"I can withstand that fire, Defiant." She replies firmly.

"Can they?"

For the first time in this entire conversation, you see Dimezza falter. Just a little.

(Continued)
>>
>>4252655

"What I'm asking is to not let it consume you and them, both." You implore, leaning forward. "There's a time and place for retribution, but if it's all you preach, if it's all you follow, then pretty soon you’ll put down someone who didn't deserve it. Then those who loved them will be on YOUR heels, to get the justice owed them. I just don't want to see anyone shackle themselves to another cycle. I don't want to see people like you whose hearts are so big just burn and shrivel up with hate…until you're the person someone else with a big heart has to put down.”

Dimezza's quiet, after all that. You wait for a moment, until she draws in a deep breath, holding it for a long second before she finally exhales with slow deliberation.

"Huh...didn't know you'd be an even bigger bleeding heart in person." She says, though her words are tinged by the slight smile that's curved her thin lips.

"Takes one to know one - you were fighting this fight long before I was, it sounds like." You counter softly with a smile of your own. "You're a good person, Dimezza. You care about those girls, probably more than anyone else in their lives ever has."

"Unfortunately, yeah." Dimezza nods, staring past you as the gears turn in her mind.

"Justice delivered with a measured hand." The Gluttonous muses thoughtfully, the knuckles of her right hand tucked just under her chin as she studies you. "I'll hold you to what you said, Defiant. About you being right there with me to tear them apart."

"*If* they fall back into old habits." You add pointedly, prompting a slow blink from the woman before you.

"Hm." She murmurs. "I'll concede that some moderation wouldn't be a bad idea, where the Furies' justice is concerned. I'll take it under consideration."

"And as for what I said about the cycle you're threatening to start up?"

"I guess we'll see." She replies, holding your gaze just as you held hers mere moments before. "But I think we can both agree that we're fighting to reach the same goalpost, for right now. Keeping that in mind - while I know a lot of my girls are insistent in helping you reach the Cord safely, I assume I'd be correct in that you'd rather they not?"

"If it can be helped, yes." You admit.

"I'll see what can be done on that front, then." She says in a businesslike tone. "So, is there anything else I can help you with?"

Her hands, now folded in her lap. Her mouth, a hard, uncompromising line. The deviation in subject, delivered in clipped, yet polite lines. She's not angry, just...closed off, at least for now. You're not sure if your words really resonated with her, but they had to be said, regardless.

You can only hope you planted a seed that she'll let grow, in time.

>>Part ways with Dimezza, and speak with the Vigilant.

>>Send Dimezza on her way, and take a moment to rest and check in with your allies.

>>Oblige Dimezza's change in mood, and ask her about [Write-In].

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open until 2PM, Eastern time.)
>>
>>4252657
>"...be honest with me, how bad is it among the Furies?"
>"I plan to address everyone as a whole before i leave here. it needs to be done, regardless of the consequences, but knowing just how much i may need to tread the line cant hurt."
>"...and id still like to talk to Alecto too, if shes up for it."
>>
>>4252657
>>Part ways with Dimezza, and speak with the Vigilant.
>"No, we're good. Take care of yourself, Dimezza. Your girls, too."
>Stand, give her a handshake good-bye.
>"Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to go talk to the Vigilant. Here's hoping they're not as bad as I'm afraid they are."
>>
>>4252657
>" for now please tell me. How zealous are the Furies? How many of them do you think could explode at a moments notice?"
>"I plan to address everyone as a whole before i leave here. it needs to be done, regardless of the consequences, but knowing just how much i may need to tread the line cant hurt."
>"...and id still like to talk to Alecto too, if shes up for it. Otherwise i will talk to the Vigilants...... "
>>
>>4252646
i did answer it, not my fault you cant understand it.

it is ok to let one person die, even if you could do something about it. it just depends on the context, just like how i gave you ample context for why we shouldn't help billions you seem quite intent to just ignore.

and yes, it is biased towards the individual, because when you are dealing with an individual, you HAVE to be direct, and understand the situation more directly. you have to be more personally involved generally speaking. when you are dealing with an individual, its personal, its right there, and it allows you to have more of a chance to truly gauge the cost, both physically and morally, for both you and them.

but every person you add to that, it becomes harder and harder to gauge, harder and harder to truly be able to say its what they wanted or needed, over simply what you thought or decided they wanted or needed. from a town, to a state, to a nation, and then the entire world and every human in it. the further up you go, the more your decisions will have to be more vague, more generalized, and to do them, you have more control in your own hands.

it is exactly what they deserve, and exactly what they need. everyone. to not have us deciding things, and to not have us holding them up from afar. when you go macro, the problems become macro, aswell as the solutions. you're not helping a lone person fight off a lone Amalgam by that point, you're either deciding who gets all the resources to fight them off, or assigning hunters or guards to defend them. but at some point someones gonna have a guard hovering over them they dont want, or not be allowed to venture out when they want because of the risks. one group will need more than another, and suddenly you're playing favorite, or they abuse the extra given to them, and suddenly you have to step in. except here you're not an elected government, made up of equals that could to some degree be fought back against. here, your sitting on a throne that makes you a god no one can hope to match.

It simply both isnt worth the risk of what it could slip into, isnt something we should abuse, even minorly, isnt something justifiable to use, and the very idea of it taints any and all actions we make with it by the very nature we are giving ourselves such power and authority, no matter how we decide to use it.
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>>4252666
Right, except here's the thing: I never proposed any sort of constant oversight and micromanagement. That was you, with your slippery-slope arguments. What I proposed was just that we make tools available, to those who needed them. Just a basic aid package that we could distribute far and wide. Yes, it would be generalized and vague. That's the point. The generalized nature means that no, it can't solve everything for all people, but it also means that there's no need to micromanage ever last little detail of people's resource usage. We'd just give toss them out on the wind, give them to every group.

I don't want to play favorites. I don't want to have Shu stay up there in the Cord controlling it. I just want to change the starting conditions of the post-Crucible world a little bit, make them more favorable. If, after the fact, it turns out that the resources available to people aren't enough, well that sucks but we at least gave them more than nothing. And it wouldn't be any more a use of authority than any other thing we're adding to the starting conditions of the post-Crucible world. It's of the same moral character as getting rid of hostile Amalgams or restoring the ecosystem. A use of power, a decision made for the world, but one that is neutral at worst.

And the thing is, Shu deciding not to try to improve the starting conditions is still her deciding the fate of the world. The choice not to act is a choice all the same. Either way, Shu's choices will have huge repercussions, she can not recuse herself of the moral responsibility of accessing the Cord. Every decision she makes in regards to it, action and inaction alike, is her wielding control over humanity. So if we're stuck in that moral dilemma regardless, I'd at least like to do something to prevent gigadeaths.
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>>4252686
no, im not implying anything, only responding to what you are implying and condoning with what you are saying.

any decision like that is still Shu deciding how resources should be distributed and what should be done beyond the bare necessity for there to even be a world at all, regardless of what you say or how its done. Shu might have to make a choice, but one is still her choosing how things should be done more over less, no matter how you slice it, and thats goes against what we have said we plan to do and what we should do. your acting like the context of both is the same when they are not. one is still her deciding more and dipping her toes further into how and what should be done over the other, and her deciding as little as possible is what we have both said we will do and the right thing to do. its not a moral dilemma, because not going any further than necessary fits what we have set our morals out as moreso, while doing even an 'aid package' is being hypocritical to what we said we would do once we are in that position. its still putting what Shu thinks of as enough in more weight over not, still putting more of what needs to be done or should be done in Shus hands than should be in anyones hands, even if only by a drop, its still a drop no one should have a right to have.

if this is what you wanted, then you shouldn't of ever agreed to this and should just vote for Shu going full god emperor, because its what you're wanting anyways.
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>>4252703
Oh, you want to do this slippery-slope strawman bullshit some more? Okay. The logical extension of what you're implying and condoning is that we don't bring anyone back at all. If it's not acceptable to use power on a large scale, even for compassionate reasons, then we can't revive humanity. Because that's Shu deciding that humanity should exist. It's got nothing to do with wanting to do the right thing, it's her forcing her opinions and morality on the rest of the world. How dare she do that? It doesn't matter that the people want to be alive, power can't be ethically used to help people because the decision to help is a selfish one. Any decision other than inaction is a selfish one, when you have power.

If this is what you wanted, then you shouldn't have ever agreed to this and should just vote for Shu going full apathetic nihilist, because it's what you're wanting anyways.
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>>4252713
oh fuck off with that strawman bullshit you utter fucking hypocrite.

no, Shu undoing the destruction of humanity that was done is not the same thing as her deciding to give an extra and unnatural boost to the world, just like how her choosing to save humanity from an imposed time limit is different than how she does it and how far she takes it. the fact you cannot understand this or how Context matters means your opinion is utterly worthless if you cannot understand even these basic concepts to decision making, nor how you cant seem to understand how scale matters.

there is a line of morality that is very arguable to not be entirely opinion based, and makes it irrelevant if its even selfish or not to do it. why? because you cannot even have a moral argument if there is no humanity in the first place, just like how if we do not make the ecosystem at least able to survive on its own, nothing else matters. but once we go beyond that, it DOES end up being simply based upon morality and opinions, because past that survival is already possible, so its only about how much we think people should struggle, weighed in against how much control we think Shu should have. but none of that matters if there is no humanity around for us to even make or not make a moral decision for. from there, its about undoing the lack of choice done to those people, and nothing else.

unlike you, nothing ive said hasn't backed up how ive voted for Shu or what im saying. the choice of Humanity existing or not is not a moral one, because there has to be a sentient race around in the first place for morals to matter. and even without that, at its base its Humanity as a species vs the Crucible as a species. you dont need morality at all to choose your own species survival over the other, thats just basic nature. we just happen to also be able to argue a moral reason behind it too, if we so desired.
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>>4252713
>>4252703
Both of you are arguing either in circles or intentionally taking both of each other's arguments and skewing them hard to make strawmen out of the other.

Stop it.

>>4252541
I understand your perspective on wanting to do something more than simply save the world and cut the planet's ties to the crucible, by advocating for Shu being an active participant in rebuilding. But I think this is where things get skewed between the two of you. And I know that you're worried about the super-long term problems such as reconstruction and rebuilding humanity. We get that. But that's a long ways away. We can't really plan that out if our doom is guaranteed by the Crucible happening right now. That problem can be left for the rest of Humanity to decide.

>>4252563 is arguing against using the God console to enforce those changes. He doesn't have any qualms in helping people out here and there. He's arguing the "bare minimum" is basically using the God console to stop the Crucible cycle and ensure that Earth and its inhabitants can have a chance of surviving post-crucible by taking care of the biggest problems first (Hunger system and the Crucible's set-up of forcing an eventual winner). That's his bare minimum requirements. However he is also arguing that he doesn't want to go any further than that when using the God Console because that just a huge invitation to the temptation of power abuse and corruption. He's not against long term planning, but what he is against is the abuse of power. Unless the people decide to entrust that power into Shu, we aren't going to use it as we know our moral limits.

But then the two of you began talking past each other and started making straw men. This is my perspective as to what's going on in this argument.
>>
>>4252713
>>4252730
(Piggy-backing off what >>4252738 said, I believe you both have valid points. You're sticking to your guns, and I admire that greatly.)

(Now, continuing the argument would only serve to pit immovable forces against each other in my humble opinion. You're both heated, and you both have the [fictitious] future of humanity at the heart of your good intentions.)

(You're free to do as you like, though I will say that continuing doesn't seem like it'll change much, considering how passionate you both are about your individual points.)
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>>4252738
>>4252764
Yeah, alright, I'll just drop it, then. You're right, no point in continuing, to be honest at this point I know that and I'm really just responding because I'm too emotionally invested not to. Sorry for cluttering up the thread with rancor.
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>>4252738
>>4252764
yeah, fine. need to learn some people just cant be reasoned with and arent worth the effort.
sorry for filling the thread up with that nonsense.
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>>4252769
>>4252773

No worries. It does bring up valid points and very serious moral problems which your arguments have highlighted for the rest of us to muse upon in our downtime. It also goes to show how well invested into this game we are.
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>>4252769
>>4252773
(Hey, it's okay. You're both eloquent and passionate, and you're deeply invested in where you're coming from. I welcome the discourse, as long as it doesn't fall into the trap of going at each other on a personal level. I'm honestly honored to have that caliber of discussion arise from the story, almost as much as I appreciate you both being willing to take a step back.)

(Thank you both for everything you contribute, truly. Like >>4252783 said, I'm glad I've been able to inspire this level of investment with the Quest.)
>>
>>4252657
>>4252661
amending to support >>4252665
instead, for one reason. his addition of zealotry is something id like to hear about. how far does the cult like Shu aspects go in the Furies? its been said to be there, but i am very interested how far they go and how they came about, due to the fact the Furies integrated into Charons group, over being formed within it.
>>
(Gentlemen, I'll be wrapping up the next update when I get home. I hope everyone is doing well, one and all.)
>>
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>>4253012
eh, tired as my sleep schedules kinda all over the place and the time i meant for a nap was used on other things, but could be worse.
hope your days going well though.
>>
>>4253012
I got out of tech support hell..... Took me almost all my minutes i had on my phone but yeah i got out

So pretty great actually

I hope yours as well
>>
>>4253012

Hey bhop. I've got a good song that I want to share with you. I think it'll really help set the mood/tone/stage for the final battle on the Cord's summit.

Just picture this:
Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiXiLtAeBt0
>Stage: Crucible's apex
>Scene: A grand eldritch throne sits at the center. The sun has been Eclipsed by the moon casting a celestial shadow over the throne, yet the coronal ring provides enough light to set an otherworldly mood. over the edge of the throne lies the planet's horizon, covered by the membrane that envelops the earth.
>Shu stands before the throne taking in the grand majestic view before heading towards the throne to topple it
>But before she can take another step. The Cord has one final defense. It summons it's last champion. The previous Mother. The last winner.
>A clash between old and new. Two opposing wills. One looking up at the encumbant in defiance, another looking down at the usurper in a downcast look of despair.
>No words are exchanged. A solemn look of respect is exchanged between the two. Both of them know they cannot walk way from this. Not unless one of them dies for it.
>The battle commences. The weight of aeons of a relentless cycle clashing against newborn defiance.
>All the while the world watches. the galaxy watches, the cosmos, the gods, all of time and space, standing still to view this insignificant spectacle given grand importance equal to the birth of everything and nothing.
>>
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>>4252657

“I’d like to know how...zealous…the Furies are, in your opinion.” You begin, moving the discussion to more tactical matters. “I plan to address everyone as a whole before I leave here. It needs to be done, regardless of the consequences – but knowing just how carefully I need to tread would help.”

“Zealous? They’re a group of high-school and pre-teen girls that look up to you like you’re some sort of goddess. Does that answer your question?” Dimezza says with a wry laugh. “Seriously, Alecto and I understood where you were coming from with your interview, but as for the rest? I think they just saw you as saying that *they* had control. If you’re looking for them to get the big picture of everyone having a chance, then you’d have to make it exceedingly clear to them where you stand.”

“Do you think they’ll take it well?”

“That depends on what you’re going to say, exactly.” Dimezza admits after a moment’s hesitation. “If you phrase things to them the same way you phrased them to me, well…let’s just say putting on the kid gloves wouldn’t be a bad idea.”

“I’d like for you to be by my side when I address everyone…if you’re up for it.” You forward, and Dimezza considers it for a moment before voicing her reply.

“Alright, as long as Alecto’s in the crowd to do some mitigation.” She relents. “She can do more on the ground than I can to help.”

“Speaking of whom, do you think I could speak with her? Only if she’s up for it, though.”

At that, Dimezza glances around her seat to see Dyna playing with the younger girl in the distance, engaged in what you can only assume to be some sort of Simon-Says-esque game if Dyna’s rapid fluctuations are any indication. The woman seated before you whispers something under her breath, and you see the vague, distant form of the younger girl pause. A second or two passes until Dimezza slowly turns back to you with a somewhat surprised expression.

“She actually is, yeah.” The woman replies, rising from her seat as you watch Alecto start towards you. “Look, Defiant…”

The taller woman looks to you, her golden eyes lacking the hard-edge from earlier. “…I appreciate you hearing me out. I came at you hard, and you stood your ground.”

“Likewise.” You reply with a smile, taking the hand she offers with a firm shake. “I hope we can work towards something good together.”

Dimezza places a gentle hand on Alecto’s shoulder with a light squeeze as the smaller girl gives her friend a subtle nod. Resuming her seat from earlier as Dimezza goes to speak with Dyna, Alecto pulls her hood back to look at you in full, a single dark brown eye staring out at you from beneath black bangs. The other socket is a mouth with tightly-gritted teeth, grinning out at you without expression.

(Continued)
>>
>>4253238

“Thanks for being willing to talk.” You start with a warm smile, one that doesn’t seem to faze the girl at all. She just nods slowly, staring at you vacantly as you try to figure out what to say.

"I listened."

Her voice is soft, so soft that you almost don't catch her words before they're carried off by the chill breeze that whips across the blistered Fleshscape. You're about to ask for some clarification before a tilt of Alecto's head draws your eyes to Dimezza, in the distance.

"I see...and what did you think of what I said?"

She's quiet for a long moment, and then...

"I don't know."

With a shrug of her shoulders, she continues in that same, flat tone, devoid of intonation or inflection.

"I don't know what to think. I'm...." She trails off, searching for the right word. "...disappointed. Maybe."

"Okay...and why are you disappointed?"

"I don't think you've been hurt. Not like us. Not like me." She replies evenly, having not moved a muscle, except to nod towards Dimezza. "I thought you'd understand."

"I...I *do* understand, Alecto." You say, leaning forwards. "I understand how-"

"No. No, you don't." The young girl interrupts, without a hint of irritation. "If you did, you'd be mad, too. You'd be mad like Dimezza."

Her head tilts, slightly, as she adds-

"Like me."

"You're...angry?" Uzu says hesitantly. "Right now?"

Alecto nods.

"Always." She replies, quietly. "You gave up feeling what others feel. I thought you'd be stronger. I thought you'd open yourself to people. Not shut them out."

She shrugs, again.

"I thought you were stronger than me. But I know now that I'm stronger than you."

You're at a loss as Alecto stands up, staring down at you with that damnably vacant expression.

"Your speech will go fine. The Furies will listen. They won't get mad." She informs you coldly. "I'll just get stronger. So you don't need to worry."

"I...I don't understand, Alecto." You say, shaking your head.

"Are we done here?" She counters quietly, slowly slipping her hands in her pockets. "I am, if you are."

You blink in the face of this iscrutable girl, with a glance to Uzu indicating that she's completely taken off-guard by this whole bizarre interaction.

>>"Please, just...sit down. I want you to understand where I'm coming from, because I don't think you get what I'm trying to do."

>>"Alecto...what's wrong? I just want to understand where you're coming from, truly. Like I said with Dimezza, you don't have to hold anything back. I want to know how you feel...that's all."

>>"Alecto...what is it that you can do, exactly?"

>>Let her go. If she doesn't want to listen to how you really feel, then you can't force her to.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next two-and-a-half hours. I do hope your day is going well, and my apologies for the delay in the update. Technical issues and literally a dozen small interruptions have been preventing me from updating for the better part of an hour and a half.)
>>
>>4253260
>Sigh, stand up and put a soft, but firm hand on Alectos shoulder.
>"Please... Talk, really talk. none of... this, this side stepping and rushing past the point. I want to understand you, really understand where you're coming from and why you feel this way... but you're assuming i already have my mind made up without even letting me listen to your side of things."
>"...and you're also not giving me a fair chance to explain where im coming from either. not everyone needs to be told the same thing in the same way to understand it, and that goes for me just as much as you."
>"So... please. indulge me, if nothing else. tell me your story, what you believe, why you're disappointed."
>"And maybe then i can understand you better, and that'll let me help you to understand mine better too."
>"...but if not?"
>Let your hand fall, a sad smile on your face as you shrug, motion for the door.
>"Then its your choice, I only hope you know... Im more open to others than i ever was before, and maybe you'd give me the chance to let you understand why."

grah, yeah, this is exactly what i was gonna mention about what Dimezza said about the Furies looking up to us like a goddess. its not *just* a damned cut, its a cult of abused minors. whew, this and them are... not a fun situation. this is unintentional hero worship and indoctrination that honestly im not sure we can deal with, this feels like the type of stuff it takes years to undo and move on from... but i still think things need to be said here, im just starting to think we might just have to accept we're gonna hurt people here, and at best only plant the seed to help them move forward from all this.
>>
>>4253129
(Oh, this sent chills up my spine. An excellent song, and a fantastic write-in, if I may say so.)
>>
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>>4253265
oof, sorry to hear that, but hope they cleared up and you can relax a bit on your end.
>>
>>4253288
(Ha, we'll see. I'm just sorry I kept you all waiting.)
>>
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>>4253296
hey, its fine, you were busy.

also, congrats on making me frustrated to no end at a character in half an update.
If Alecto doesn't have a 'brick wall' ability i'll be sorely disappointed.
>>
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>>4253260
>"Maybe i haven't. I am only a month old after all."
>"As such i ask you to talk to me? Not at me, not towards me and certainly not around me. I want you to talk to me about what your story is, what you belive and why you sound so disappointed."
>"And in return i will try to make my choice understandable for you as well."
>Open your arms as if to say look around
>"But if you dont want to? Its your choice not to talk or listen to me. I can only offer to listen or talk, i cant force you to do it like that power could have"
>"Because after loosing that power i finally feel like i can truly be close to someone again. If you let me i will explain why even if you sotn want to talk"

>>4253265
I am sorry to hear your day has been so ... questionable. I hope it improves.

Have a small aspect of the god of treachery and disease to improve your day by ruining the day of your enemies

>>4253313
You mean the 'No U' Teenager rebuttle?
>>
>>4253260

I think Alecto is mad at us because of the fact that we cut-off our empathy powers. She seems fixated on strength as a result.

And if I were to infer from her reaction. She's disappointed from the fact that we don't feel her rage, that we aren't immersing ourselves in her pain. It's almost as if she was banking on the idea that Shu would use her empathy field and let Alecto infect Shu with her festering anger in order to synchronize and gain Shu's sympathy. Almost as if she's relying on power as a crutch to support her insecurities and anger.

>Take out a Neurojack and offer it to Alecto.
>"My empathy field may be neutered, but that doesn't stop me from trying to be more open to others and trying to feel what others feel. I want to know how you feel because I want to actively learn how you feel. Not passively through an empathy field.
>"You said I don't understand you. I WANT to understand you."
>"I'm giving you a chance to help me understand you. If words aren't your strong suit in communicating to others how you feel, then this may be a substitute."
>"But I want to say this, telling people you you feel by actively talking to them, actively communicating with them is far more engaging and empathizing. It helps me get to them and how they feel better, then it will help you too.
>"It's your choice. You can let me know how you feel through your words, your memories, and your feelings... Any of the above, All of the above. Talk it out, show me your feelings through the neurojack, help me learn and understand...or you can walk away disappointed."

>>4253282
Nobody said therapy can be solved simply by acquiring power. And that sort of mindset is what Alecto's gunning for. The problem with the Furies is that they're all sharing that mindset and almost believe that gaining power is the best solution to solving their past traumas. And from a person who's been through therapy sessions and seen psychologists, recovering from past traumas is not an easy quick-fix. it's a tedious process where I have the opportunity and chance to verbally let loose all of my frustrations and stress through words and talk out my problems. And when it's all said and done, the therapist writes down what I said and tries to help me move past my problems by collaborating with me and talking things out to figure out my hang ups and what I can do to move past them and grow.

>>4253284
I'm glad you liked it. I'm very attuned to music. much of the songs that I listen to are instrumentals or songs that I found from music videos.
>>
>>4253313
>>Have a small aspect of the god of treachery and disease to improve your day by ruining the day of your enemies

(Both the image and the sentence speak to me on a spiritual level. Nicely done.)

>>4253313
(Anytime. For every time that Rath is great, Gina is flirty, or Amara is adorable, there will be an equivalent exchange of sometimes justified dickery somewhere in the Fleshscape.)
>>
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>>4253331
Ah yes-yes Skaven always good-best cure for man-things bad-worse day

I thought it would. I always about using this picture in my writing but i instead used this one
>>
>>4253317
im not sure Shus age really matters here. again, Shu didn't lose context of the world before, and hot damn, Shu has been through more in her life than most ever would, hell, even compared to a ton if not most Crucible contenders she has been through the wringer, both emotionally and physically. shes even been in positions where she cant do anything physically, aswell as suffered from mental abuse.

im not gonna say its the same still of course, only i dont think her age has anything to do with it nor is Shu lacking in any context to suffering on a personal level.

>You mean the 'No U' Teenager rebuttle?
hah, she should probably have both honestly.

>>4253326
eh, im not sure i agree with using Neuromancy here. it just feels like it confirming her thoughts and viewpoint that we were weak for and that giving up the Empathic Field was a mistake. jumping at all to using it just feels like all it is doing is confirming everything she is thinking, even if only in her eyes over literally.

>Furies
well yeah, i agree. dont think i said they were right acquiring power would solve things here? i was more of saying the Furies and their problems are deep, deeper than i think can be solved here, over only setting the foundation for it.

>>4253331
well, i only hope we can get through to Alecto... though if my suspicions are correct she has done something to herself, it might be literally impossible.
...and she would also be a hypocrite, which would only add to the frustrations.
>>
>>4253346
(Good Lord, the Skaven are so blasted cool. It reminds me of back in my Magic the Gathering days, where I ran a Nezumi/Rat deck that infuriated everyone I played with.
>>
>>4253260
Amendign vote from >>4253317
to
>"Like you said. Maybe i don't understand."
>"As such i ask you to talk to me? Not at me, not towards me and certainly not around me. I want you to talk to me about what your story is, what you belive and why you sound so disappointed."
>"And in return i will try to make my choice understandable for you as well."
>Open your arms as if to say look around
>"But if you dont want to? Its your choice not to talk or listen to me. I can only offer to listen or talk, i cant force you to do it like that power could have"
>"Because after loosing that power i finally feel like i can truly be close to someone again. If you let me i will explain why even if you sotn want to talk"

>>4253356
They have quite a few cool concepts with their warpstone technology. While i dont collect them i have faced them on the tabletop.... They can be frustrating to deal with......
Teleportshenanigans and quite a few good spells and abilities taht can make them absolutely deadly
>>
anyways i should head to bed.....

what with public transportation not really beign an option right now i have to get to work on my wiredonkey(read bike)

And i should go to sleep now to at elast get like 6 hours of sleep.

As such Good Night OP

Good Night Anons
>>
>>4253372
(Sleep well, and get some good rest.)

>>wire donkey
(Pfhaha, oh, that's great.)
>>
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>>4253372
night Anon.
dont let the construct bedbugs devour you whole!
>>
>>4253260
>>Write-In
>"Why'd you agree to talk to me, Alecto? I don't think it was just to tell me you were disappointed and not give any context. That's just wasting both our time"
>"I think you've got a lot to say, Alecto. A lot of ideas you want to express, or else you wouldn't have bothered speaking to me. And I'd like to hear them. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm doing this wrong, so please, tell me.
>"Of course, ultimately it's up to you. It's not my right to go battering down your barriers and force you to talk to me.
>"That's why I got rid of my empathic field, actually. It wasn't because I didn't want to empathize anymore. It's because it was starting to become invasive, force that connection. It was a violation."
>"I don't want to do that to anyone. So if you don't want to talk, that's fine. Just know that I want to listen."

>>4253372
Good night, anon. Sleep well, don't let the cablemule bite.
>>
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>>4253356
Ikit claw set the bar for me to be honest when it comes to Warhammer Fantasy. Of all the races to marvel at, a race of constantly backstabbing man-sized rats who somehow are savvy enough to turn raw magic into nuclear fuel and ammunition is probably the best kind of batshit insane.

They even made a Space rocket and fooled everyone into thinking it was a comet.
>>
>>4253387
hrm... thats a good point on the Empathic Field, and im not even against it, my only thought is explaining how it could be an invasion of privacy, and even result in purposeful or accidental abuse of others might help us to help her understand us greatly let her know even if she sees it as a tool of connection others might be hurt by it, even traumatized, and her view isnt the one that matter or way it would be perceived. would help us to counter balance her argument too, depending on how she puts it.

only thing is, I dont think going hard on the details here is a good idea until we convince her to talk and we listen to her first, but without deeper context i feel like the impact is lost a bit and it might be using it up as ammunition too early and without enough powder behind it maybe.
>>
>>4253404
>>4253387
It's a good point with the empathy field, but the first thing we have to do before explaining ourselves is to first convince Alecto to come to the table and have us and her come to an understanding. Only after we have her come to the table and have her talk her feelings out do we explain to her our reasons for cutting off the empathy field.
>>
>>4253409
yeah, my hangup with mentioning it now too.
like i said earlier i dont think using or suggesting Neuromancy is a good idea either though.
>>
>>4253404
>>4253409
Fair points, this might not be the point in time to say it. I do want to bring up respect for boundaries, though. I feel like it's important to know that we don't feel like we have a right to an explanation, that we want to know more but the power is in her hands here.
>>
>>4253417
sure.

>>4253260
>>4253282
Amending;
>Sigh, stand up and put a soft, but firm hand on Alectos shoulder.
>"Please... Talk, really talk. none of... this, this side stepping and rushing past the point. I want to understand you, really understand where you're coming from and why you feel this way... but you're assuming i already have my mind made up without even letting me listen to your side of things."
>"...and you're also not giving me a fair chance to explain where im coming from either. not everyone needs to be told the same thing in the same way to understand it, and that goes for me just as much as you."
>"So... please. indulge me, if nothing else. tell me your story, what you believe, why you're disappointed."
>"And maybe then i can understand you better, and that'll let me help you to understand me better too."
>"...but if not?"
>Let your hand fall, a sad smile on your face as you shrug, motion for the door.
>"Then its your choice, and ill Respect your boundaries. If it doesn't feel right, if you're not comfortable opening up to me even a little bit... then i understand, and i wouldn't want to put any undue stress on you."
>"I only hope you know... Im more open to others than i ever was before, and maybe you'd give me the chance to let you understand why."
>>
>>4253260
Amending my vote >>4253326 to

>Sigh, stand up and look at Alecto with a soft gaze.
>"Then why'd you agree to talk to me, Alecto? I don't think it was just to tell me you were disappointed and not give any context. That's just wasting both our time"
>"I think you've got a lot to say, Alecto. A lot of ideas you want to express, or else you wouldn't have bothered speaking to me. And I'd like to hear them. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm doing this wrong, so please, tell me."
>Raise your arms and spread them out in an open gesture to beckon to Alecto.
>"Please... Talk, really talk. none of... this, this side stepping and rushing past the point."
>"You said I don't understand you. This is my first time meeting you. I WANT to understand you."
>"I want to understand, to really learn more about you, where you're coming from, and why you feel this way..."
>Let your hands drop in disappointment. Look down.
>"But you're refusing to give me that chance."
>"You think I'm refusing to understand you...If you think I'm refusing your chance to make me understand you..."
>Look up at Alecto again, raise one hand out to offer as an open handshake, with another gesturing towards the table.
>"Then here's your a second chance here."
>"All you need to do is to sit down at the table and simply talk. And I'll listen."
>"So... please. indulge me, if nothing else. tell me your story, what you believe, why you're disappointed."
>"You can let me know how you feel through your words, your memories, and your feelings in a manner that makes you feel comfortable... Any of the above, All of the above. Talk it out, Help me learn and understand you..."
>"And maybe then i can understand you better, and that'll let me help you to understand mine better too."
>"...but if you refuse?"
>A sad smile on your face as you shrug, motion for the door.
>"Then its your choice, I only hope you know... I'm more open to others than i ever was before, and maybe you'd give me the chance to let you understand why."
>>
>>4253448
eh... i dislike this. expanded it way too much, with some stuff it didnt need, and also i dont like the pity party Shu is throwing for herself in the middle there at all. wouldn't like it normally, but within the current context that just feels wickedly out of place and even maybe manipulative, if it doesn't cause outright backlash instead.
>>
>>4253453
Fair point of criticism.

>>4253444
I'll generally support this write-in, but what's bothering me is the write-in to put a hand on Alecto's shoulder. I'm conflicted by it because while the gesture is good in that it shows that we are generally trying to show that we want to understand and that we're not done with Alecto, the gesture itself may illicit a bad reaction out of Alecto as physical contact with traumatized people tends to provoke a violent coping mechanism.
>>
>>4253467
Yeah, that's a good point. We should respect her personal space boundaries as well as her social ones.
>>
>>4253467
hrm, fair criticism in return. think it might work if we put it further in, warm her up to the idea first? if not, im fine removing that bit. she felt like deep down she needed a hug as it was, but yeah i can understand if its too early or we need to work our way up to that if even a shoulder pat is at all possible.

just cant be at the end though if we do keep it, wouldn't make sense to put the options on the table then hold her in place, even temporarily or even if thats not what the gesture means.
>>
>>4253475
What if we wrote it in a way that we slowly approached her while we talk? see how sensitive Alecto is to her personal boundaries. See if she's receptive to a personal gesture like a hug or a pat on the shoulder if she lets us and respectfully back off at the first sign of resistance or skittishness.

I understand that you have the hunch that Alecto is in dire need of a hug, but lets treat the gesture carefully.
>>
>>4253492
hrm, maybe... only issue is its pretty hard to kinda write it in a way thats either-or, and even if we back off, trying at all might make her too uncomfortable.

>>4253444
>>4253260
Amending again;

>Take a deep breath, and stand up and meet Alectos gaze with a genuine and compassionate, but concerned look.
>"Alecto, please dont just brush this off. You came in here for a reason, and i dont think thats all it really was about..."
>"Please... Talk, really talk. none of... this, this side stepping and rushing past the point. I want to understand you, really understand where you're coming from and why you feel this way... but you're assuming i already have my mind made up without even letting me listen to your side of things."
>"...and you're also not giving me a fair chance to explain where im coming from either. not everyone needs to be told the same thing in the same way to understand it, and that goes for me just as much as you."
>"So... please. indulge me, if nothing else. tell me your story, what you believe, why you're disappointed."
>"And maybe then i can understand you better, and that'll let me help you to understand me better too."
>"...but if not?"
>Let your hand fall, a sad smile on your face as you shrug, motion for the door.
>"Then its your choice, and ill Respect your boundaries. If it doesn't feel right, if you're not comfortable opening up to me even a little bit... then i understand, and i wouldn't want to put any undue stress on you."
>Offer her a hand, to gently lead her back to the chair, or give her a shake goodbye, if shes unwilling to stay. if she doesn't accept it either way, resorting to a wave to either direction will do.
>"I only hope you know... Im more open to others than i ever was before, and maybe you'd give me the chance to let you understand why."

still really unsure about even a handshake offer like this, but its that or nothing, and ill accept if people think nothing works better.
>>
>>4253492
The sense I get from what little we've seen of Alecto so far is that she's definitely the sort of person who can't admit what they need. The sort of child, rather, she's how old? But yeah, between her age and what trauma she's suffered, I don't think she's able to express the level of vulnerability needed to acknowledge that they feel bad. She'll just get stronger, then what she's feeling won't bother her anymore, she's got a solution, stop pushing. There isn't a problem, don't treat her like she's got a problem.

Also, I just had a chilling thought: If it hadn't been Isabel, Ozmas would have tried to go after one of these girls to body-snatch. Abuse victims that she thinks she can psychologically manipulate by preying on their need for comfort and their inability to acknowledge that need? Yeah, the Furies would have been her next target, I think. Isabel was just more convenient, she was closer and the drama around the time of Almath gave Ozmas a ready hook to try to manipulate.
>>
>>4253517
yeah, possibly, though that depends on how much they knew about Mothers true intentions, which may of been alot actually, from what Dimezza said. they formed the Furies before we came around really, and said they figured out the truth more or less pretty early on.

still though, lets be honest, the Furies are at that age it sounds like where everyone is an idiot, with abuse sprinkled on top. would still be a dubious situation, yeah.
>>
>>4253260

You rise from your seat, holding Alecto's gaze as you speak, each word chosen with utmost care.

"Alecto, please don't just brush this off." You begin gingerly. "You came in here for a reason, and I don't think that's all it was about...so, please, Alecto - talk. Really, truly talk. None of this...side stepping and rushing past the point. I want to understand you, *really* understand where you're coming from and why you feel this way. But it feels like you're assuming I already have my mind made up without even letting me listen to your side of things."

Alecto's just as expressionless as before, but her body language has shifted. Her hands are still in her pockets, but as she tilts her slight frame towards you just a hair, you get the sense that she's listening to you.

For now, at least.

"And you're also not giving me a fair chance to explain where I'm coming from, either. Not everyone needs to be told the same thing in the same way to understand it, and that goes for me just as much as you."

"Okay." She says flatly, her one-word-response noncommittal.

"So, please. Indulge me, if nothing else. Tell me your story, what you believe, and why you're disappointed." You gently plead. "Maybe then I can understand you better, and that'll let me help you to understand me better too...but if not?"

Letting your hand fall to your side, you fix the girl with a small, sad smile.

"Then it's your choice, and I'll respect your boundaries. If it doesn't feel right, or if you're not comfortable opening up to me even a little bit? Then I understand, and I wouldn't want to put any undue stress on you. I only hope you know that I'm more open to others than I ever was before, and maybe you'd give me the chance to let you understand why."

Alecto tilts her head an inch to one side, as if in curiosity. She stays that way for a long moment, and when she moves again, you think it's to leave until she withdraws one hand to reach up and push back her hood. Her hair is a dark, greasy affair, thoroughly unkempt and messy after having been concealed within the garment for who knows how long. You catch a glimpse of a mouthful of gritted teeth at the nape of her neck as she shakes out her hair, a light grinding noise filling the air as she moves to sit down once more.

"Dimezza earned my story...but if you want to understand my disappointment, then that's fine." She begins as you strain to hear her words even now, seated a mere two meters away. "I know how I feel. I know how the Furies feel. Every single one of them. I feel their rage. Their hurt. Their fury. Their fire. I feel all of that from them, but in you, it's...different. Like it's dying. Like it's just embers. You're just...tired, almost."

Well...you can't exactly argue the 'tired' part, but you hold your tongue as the young girl continues.

(Continued)
>>
>>4253604

"If you'd been hurt like we had, then I'd feel it. I could get stronger, if you felt like we did. But I'm not getting anything from you. That's why I'm disappointed. The Furies, Dimezza, even me...I can keep it all right here." She says, tapping a spot between her chest and her stomach. "I can get stronger from it all, but you...you don't have anything but these sparks of something that doesn't taste like what we have, deep down."

Wait.

...Taste?

"Stronger...you said that earlier." You say slowly, sharing a glance with Uzu as her eyes widen, just a fraction. "Alecto...what are your powers, exactly?"

"Conduit." She replies calmly, allowing her arm to rest on that of the chair. "Hybridized Gluttonous at the same time that Dimezza combined her Gluttonous with Predator. My Core lets me use what I feel and force it on others. Make them understand. Now? Well...I can feel their anger, too. Not just my own. I can feel it. Touch it. Taste it..."

Suddenly, every mouth on her body except the one on her face grinds their teeth with barely-constrained rage.

"...and eat it."

Her flat tone. Her expressionless facade. Her vacant expression.

It's no act.

It's just a plate, wiped clean.

"I can eat it all, even my own. It just makes me stronger." She explains. "The Furies...I don't take all of what they have. They need it to keep going. It's the fire that keeps them alive. Keeps them fighting. But I can keep them calm, with this. And I can make sure all that strength doesn't go to waste."

You blink, as the full, terrible reality of what Alecto's doing hits you full-force.

"You're...you're eating their emotions. Their rage." You say, not so much a question as a statement of sobering fact. "But the Hunger, won't it-?"

"Dimezza said she could handle the fire." Alecto interrupts. "She can, because I can. It's not a burden. It's fuel. I keep it all in me. It's my secret weapon. So when I said that the Furies would listen to your speech...I meant it. They don't know what I'm doing, and that's fine. I'm like Dimezza. I keep my promises, and I look after people that hurt. Really, truly hurt."

Orwell. Her hybrid allows her to feed on attention, on the goodwill of her viewers...but this? This girl's a repository of indignation, an bottomless pit of hatred that she's siphoned off of herself and others. Alpha was a literal bomb, but Alecto?

She has the potential to be so, so much worse.

>>"Alecto...I *am* angry. Just because I don't hate the same way you do doesn't mean that I'm not hurting over what's been done to me or my family. Hurt comes in all different shades, or flavors, so to speak - it's not all the same."

>>"...Does Dimezza even know you're doing this?"

>>"Alecto...that's not your burden to bear. That's...if you think anger and heartbreak is so vital to existence, to strength, then aren't you robbing the Furies of something that's rightfully theirs?"

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
>>4253623
She's a sin-eater. Lovely. Oh, I don't even know where to start with this girl.
>>
>>4253623
Damn. To think Alecto is almost the same as Kanna. To carry such a heavy burden. She's a trooper yet at the same time what she's doing is unnecessary.

>>4253629
This reminds me of an old aspect of League of legends with a champion named Renekton. His job was to ward off intruders and consume the wicked, only for the wickedness to infect his mindset. And eventually Renekton became wicked himself because he was seeped in so much sin that he's completely become someone else.
>>
(Gentlemen, I am considering pausing here for the evening, given how exhausted I am at current. For now, I'll leave voting open for the next twelve hours, with posting to resume tomorrow at approximately 2:00PM Eastern time...barring any workplace associate deciding to dump conspiracy theories on me for two hours straight. Thank you all for your patience, participation, and kindness, and I'll be around for the remainder of the evening as I attempt to get to bed at a decent time.)

(I wish you all a restful evening, and take care.)
>>
>>4253651
That sounds good. I've got to go get started on dinner, anyway, so that works for me. Have a nice evening, BHOP, I hope you get some rest. See you tomorrow.
>>
>>4253629
>>4253642
>>4253510
(Also, I'll be completely frank - you all were on a razor's edge as far as the vote went, because touching Alecto or violating her personal space in any way would've resulted in a Phantasmal AoE that would've been absolutely devastating...if not to you, then to anyone within a considerable radius. I was watching the voting unfold with bated breath.)
>>
>>4253661
Good thing we realized not to. I wasn't thinking about it in terms of threat to us, just not wanting to have her freak out, but still good that treating the traumatized child with decency allowed us to avoid a horrible fate. It's always nice when treating people with decency has immediately practicable real world benefits.
>>
>>4253623
>"Alecto... Its not like that."
>"That anger? even hate you feel? you feed off of? I HAVE felt that before, i HAVE felt that pain..."
>"But i CHOSE to let go of it, to move on from it. to heal, to use that fire to move on and help others, over letting it stew or consume me."
>"Im not weak for moving on from it Alecto, im stronger than ive ever been, stronger than i ever could of been if i had let it be all that guided me forward."
>"That part of me? those ideas you and the Furies came to admire? if i had held onto my anger, my pain, let it consume me... those wouldn't exist, those grew from me using that heat to forge something new, something better, over burning everything down."

>Sigh, and get to the real crux of the issue put forth.
>"Alecto... you cant keep eating their anger, their hate. not without their consent. its wrong. its terrible. its stealing a part of them, its tearing a chunk of who they are out, choosing for them what is best, instead of letting them decide what to do with it."
>"...its abusing their trust Alecto, its abusing their emotions, their hate, its doing exactly to them what you so wish to get justice from others for."

>Meet her eyes, letting a sternness, an unmoving and unwavering conviction aimed sorely at her.
>"I got rid of my Empathic Field because it was invasive. it gave those id use it on no choice in what they revealed to me, no choice as to what was said, what was hidden."
>"It was abusive, or so so easily so. it left no room for choice, no room for privacy. it too easily would allow me to manipulate and twist others as i saw fit. I got rid of it not to cut people off Alecto, but because i couldn't dare ask them to open up to me while i had such a power to hold over their heads."
>"..and you're doing exactly to those girls what i feared i may do to my family."
>Sigh, and let your emotions wane, let your compassion back in.
>"Alecto... i get it. i understand you're only trying to help... but this isnt how you do it, this isnt right. those girls, they need help, they need to find a way to let their fire become something beautiful, something warm to heal and lead others... or they need a release, to let it burn until it no longer is strong enough to hurt them."
>"All you're doing is dragging out their pain, all you're doing is not giving them the chance. i know they hurt, i know they are in pain..."
>"But you help them, you help that fire becomes something useful, over tearing it out of them."
>"you need to trust them, just as much as they trust you. you need to be honest with them, let them have their choice, their freedom, over choosing for them the right path."
>"Isnt that what you're here for? why you call came here? to help, not to subdue. to give back choice, not take it away like so many did to you and your friends."

(1/2)
>>
>>4253670
>>4253623
>"Alecto... ive been abused. my first friend in the Crucible lied to me, hid info from me, and expected me to bend to her every whim and want. she then nearly took everyone i cared about away from me."
>"A woman i looked up to, a hero of the Crucible... every step i take, i learn more and more about how far over the line, how much she manipulated people, how much she left on my shoulders without my consent or knowledge."
>"and.. another friend. she lied, she abused my trust, she used my love for her to get an opening, and went to hurt others. she stabbed me in the back and told me to move on from it."
>"I know pain, i know anger Alecto... but i dont let it consume me. i dont let the pain be a wound that wont heal. i use it to help others, to grow, to try and prevent others pain."

>"I... I cant sit by and let you rob choice, rob those poor girls of even more of themselves after the worlds taken so much from them. please... think about what you're doing, really LOOK at it."
>"Its not right, it wont help, all it does is drag out the pain, the inevitability of it all. it doesn't help the root of the problem, doesn't help them come to term or move on at their core."
>"You dont have to do this Alone. you dont have to take on their or your own burdens by yourself. let them help you Alecto, truly help you, just as you want to help them. theres other ways, softer ways..."
>"Hasn't the world had enough rough edges, enough fists raised? please... let them go, let them find their own path... help them find a softer way forward... and let them help you find it too."
>"...because if you dont... then its not just a matter of time before that anger, that hate? starts to turn you into what you wish to destroy... no... you're already past that line and becoming it... but its not too late to step back over."

(2/2)
>>
>>4253651
hey, if you need your rest, take it. please, have a good night, and hope its restful.

also, were they at least interesting conspiracy theories?

>>4253661
yeah, i thought that was a bad idea, glad we backed off on it.
>>
>>4253661
Goddammit bhop. Shit is super tense as is and now you gleefully reveal the mines you've planted in the field while showing us the measuring tape of how close our margin of error was?

Have a pile of Amara look-alikes.

>>4253672
>>4253664

I'm glad that my hunch was correct and raised the issue.
I'm also glad that we followed through on that hunch.
I'd like to congratulate ourselves, but we're only the half-way point in dealing with the cult. We have this, then the Vigilants, and then the big breaking speech/Hannibal lecture for everyone.
>>
well, i need to catch some sleep dangit.
was hoping to be around for any discussion here, but we'll see what happens i suppose. hopefully ill be up on the back end of things i suppose.
though knowing me ill probably be up super early in the morning, damn my night-owl tendencies.

hope everyone has a nice afternoon regardless though.
>>
>>4253671
>>4253670
I've got some issues with this write-in: mainly telling Alecto she's crossed the line. The bit at the end saying it's not too late to step back over seems to soften the blow, but it doesn't really help but give the sense that she's already been condemned to her fate.

We're trying to help Alecto gain perspective, telling her that she's crossed the point of becoming the monster she wished to destroy sounds downright cruel, but we need to draw for her another line to give her a better sense of perspective.

It's true that Alecto's already abusing the trust and consent of the other Furies through her powers, but it doesn't feel like she's crossed the line of "going for broke" / passed the horizon threshold. She knows what she's doing is helping in the short term and knows right from wrong, which is good, but it also means she's not completely gone yet.

I think conveying:
>zone of non-abuse || Moral line of abuse || Alecto || Moral line of no return || Point of No return

Would help Alecto immensely.
>>
>>4253793
Gah. I hate to pull this on you. But I was busy tending to other things. Like slow roasting Corned Beef.
>>
>>4253802
but... she kinda has. lying to her wouldn't do any good either. what shes doing it pretty damn bad in general, and especially given the context. sure, those girls might need a bit of simmering down, but hiding it from them and not giving them a choice in the matter is horrible, and could cause them tremendous harm in the long run if they find out about it the wrong way.

im also wholly unsure she does know that. she seems to not be viewing it in short or long term, but like its already the solution and only one needed. thats her being pretty closed off to the idea or reality of what it could end up causing or being perceived as. she also simply doesnt seem very quick to take things up. trying to be too subtle to her might simply not work. shes blunt, and clearly thinks things through simply. she might only listen or get the point through if it stings a bit, if it feels like something she actually needs to react to, over letting wash over her like most things so far seem to.

its also simply and plainly, no longer about her, or just about her. shes admitted to something pretty bad, even if she doesnt see it that way, and that needs to be corrected in some form, whether she wants it to or not. whether we or she likes it or not, shes revealed its no longer just about her or her issues, but she is now an active problem that needs a solution of some form.

that may not be pretty, but we cant ignore that reality either. if that requires being a bit heavier handed, then so be it, but its not an issue to gloss over or try and hide the severity of.
>>
>>4253828
Fair point.
>>
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So a long time ago I thought there was a pastebin document explaining the twelve basic cores and I can't find it in the OP resources. Is that still a thing or am I just misremembering?
>>
>>4253898
If you're asking for the 12 basic cores, it's up on the suptg archives.

Here's the link:

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/3419959/#p3426984
>>
>>4253922
Thanks.
>>
>>4253898
>>4253922
we also have it copied here so you dont have to dig through a Vein or try and remember exactly which one has it each time you need it;
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10tiCL66515aiM-cooxe2x-B4GL_wOvx1AXa1t8woWUI/edit?usp=sharing
>>
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>>4253661
oh hey i found this and i... oh boy, i dont like this one. i mean, good art, but something about its unnerving a bit, so im getting posting it out of the way now over later.
>>
>>4254454
you mean the fact that the daughter's fused with her amalgam hubby? She's literally clinging onto his torso in a rather sensual yet horrific manner, yet you can see the hand that cradles her head like a lover while his head is positioned in a way that allows him to easily check to see if his waifu's okay.

Wholesome yet horrific at the same time.
>>
>>4254460
assuming she consented to it or hes not just being unnervingly sympathetic to his necessary meal.
>>
>>4254454
>>4254460
(Oh, that's a good one. I have it saved from a while back, actually.)

>>4253898
(Apologies that I couldn't address this question before I fell asleep, but I'm glad to see everyone was so helpful.)
>>
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>>4254465
Look, the amalgam responded to her desires and it's clear that she's still alive. If she was consumed by it then there would be no need to display the innate affection like a badge of pride. And the amalgam's clearly got a good corruption totem theme going on so it's clearly powerful enough to gain sentience and intelligence. Just let the daughter and amalgam have their moment.

>>4254466
I would like to reccommend you a youtube channel this time actually with this video as his latest work in a series.
The man has the sheer absolute balls to go out of his way to try and make sense of the events happening in a game as complex and chaotic as Dwarf Fortress and actually make very compelling storytelling.
I think you can learn a thing or two from him bhop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It8qXTNsigU
>>
>>4254472
actually there is no indicator she is alive. could just be slow to swallow his food is all.
>>
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>>4254472
oh hey, just saw what video you posted. just watched that earlier today. good taste.

also, because you seem dead-set on wholesome, heres something less ambiguous.
>>
>>4254485
now that's wholesome.
>>
>>4253623
I know it's way too fucking late, but I just want to put down my vote.

>"Alecto, there are many different kinds of hurt. And I'm a victim of abuse just like you. Abuse is abuse, but the methods differ and hurts me in different ways."
>"When I was born, my first friend in the Crucible lied to me. She hid info from me, and expected me to obey her whims and trust her words. She then nearly took everyone I cared about away from me. She abused my trust. She abused my friendship. I was hurt from her betrayal... and it stung. It still stings when I think back on it."
>"There was another woman who abused me. I looked up to her as a role model as she was a hero of the Crucible...yet every step I take, I learn more and more of how much she hid from me, how she manipulated people, and the many unfinished businesses she left to put on my shoulders to sort out without my consent or knowledge."
>"And...another friend. She lied, she abused my trust, she used my love for her to get an opening and went to hurt others. She stabbed me in the back and told me to move on from it as if it was for my own good."
>"I know pain, I know anger, I know betrayal, I know abuse, but I don't let those feelings consume me Alecto..."
>"Because when I put down my first friend...when I finally got my revenge...I realized that it was tiring. It was exhausting...Holding onto that hate, that anger, that resentment, that grudge...it exhausts you. It left me hollow. So I let it go. I let that grudge go. I let go of that anger...and gave that girl a chance to let that anger go and a chance to move on and begin again."

>"I CHOSE to let go of it, to move on from it. to heal, to use that fire to move on and help others, over letting it stew or consume me."
>"Im not weak for moving on from it Alecto, im stronger than ive ever been, stronger than i ever could of been if i had let it be all that guided me forward."
>"That part of me? those ideas you and the Furies came to admire? if i had held onto my anger, my pain, let it consume me... those wouldn't exist, those grew from me using that heat to forge something new, something better, over burning everything down."

>Sigh, and get to the real crux of the issue put forth.
>Exhaustion suddenly washes over you.
>"Alecto... you cant keep eating their anger, their hate. not without their consent. its wrong. its terrible. its stealing a part of them, its tearing a chunk of who they are out, choosing for them what is best, instead of letting them decide what to do with it."
>"...its abusing their trust Alecto, its abusing their emotions, their hate, its doing exactly to them what you so wish to get justice from others for."
1/2
>>
>>4253623
>>4254718


>Meet her eyes, letting a sternness, an unmoving and unwavering conviction aimed sorely at her.
>"I got rid of my Empathic Field because it was invasive. it gave those id use it on no choice in what they revealed to me, no choice as to what was said, what was hidden."
>"It was abusive, or so so easily so. it left no room for choice, no room for privacy. it too easily would allow me to manipulate and twist others as i saw fit. I got rid of it not to cut people off Alecto, but because i couldn't dare ask them to open up to me while i had such a power to hold over their heads."
>"..and you're doing exactly to those girls what i feared i may do to my family."
>Sigh, and let your emotions wane, let your compassion back in.
>"Alecto... i get it. i understand you're only trying to help... but this isnt how you do it, this isnt right. those girls, they need help, they need to find a way to let their fire become something beautiful, something warm to heal and lead others... or they need a release, to let it burn until it no longer is strong enough to hurt them."
>"All you're doing is dragging out their pain, all you're doing is not giving them the chance. i know they hurt, i know they are in pain..."
>"But you help them, you help that fire becomes something useful, over tearing it out of them."
>"you need to trust them, just as much as they trust you. you need to be honest with them, let them have their choice, their freedom, over choosing for them the right path."
>"Isnt that what you're here for? why you call came here? to help, not to subdue. to give back choice, not take it away like so many did to you and your friends."
>"Take it from me Alecto. From someone who's gone through that entire cycle of Betrayal, abuse, and revenge. Holding onto that anger doesn't help. It only leaves you hollow."

2/2
>>
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>>4253623

"Alecto...it’s not like that." You begin, holding the girl’s glassy eye, the teeth in her other socket clenching its ‘jaw’ tightly as you speak. "That anger? That hate you feel and feed off of? I HAVE felt that before, I HAVE felt that pain…but I made the choice to let go of it, to move on from it. To heal, and use that fire to move on and help others over letting it consume me."

"I’m not weak for moving on from it Alecto.” You declare firmly. “I’m stronger than I’ve ever been, stronger than I ever could have been if I’d let it be all that guided me forward. That part of me? Those ideas you and the Furies came to admire? If I had held onto my anger, my pain, let it consume me...those wouldn't exist, those grew from me using that heat to forge something new, something better, over burning everything down."

With a sigh and a prayer, you lean forward to address the core issue at hand.

"Look, Alecto…you can’t keep eating their anger, their hate. Not without their consent. It’s wrong. It’s terrible. It’s stealing a part of them, it’s tearing out a chunk of who they are. You’re choosing for them what’s best instead of letting them decide what to do with it."

The various mouths embedded haphazardly in the girl’s flesh grind their teeth as one, the bone-chilling sound sending a shudder down your spine as you press on.

"...it’s abusing their trust, Alecto. It’s abusing their emotions, their hate. It’s doing exactly to them what you so wish to get justice from others for."

A snap. A pop. A jaw fractured from sheer pressure.

“How dare you.”

A resounding echo of the girl’s own Lexicon melts the chair underneath her as she rises to her feet.

“How fucking dare you. What I’m doing is nothing like what me and those girls have been through. I’m doing what Dimezza did for me. I’m helping them. You…I can’t…”

Her pupil is contracted to a needle’s point, fists clenched at her sides. Rising slowly, you spread your palms wide, about to speak when Alecto breathes out a deep, shuddering sigh, relaxing her hands.

“Fine. You think me keeping the others in check is wrong?” Alecto asks, slipping her hands back into her pockets as her power struggles to keep her own fury in check. “Then I won’t hold them back. I won’t hold them back an inch, Defiant. Make your speech. See how they react.”

You reach out, but she’s already turned her back on you, striding towards Dimezza and Dyna, in the distance…and yet when a small, rotund FuzzBuzz flits a few meters ahead of her, it gives her enough of a pause for you to get a word in.

(Continued)
>>
>>4254753

“…I’m sorry. That was out of line.” You admit, watching Alecto slow to a stop with your swarmling hovering in place before her. “You’re only trying to help...I see that. I do. Those girls, they *need* help. They need to find a way to let their fire become something beautiful, something warm to heal and lead others...or they need a release, to let it burn until it no longer is strong enough to hurt them."

“I’m helping them.” Alecto repeats, a dim echo of the vengeful shape her words took only moments before.

"I know you are…I just worry that you're dragging out their suffering, and not giving them the chance to grow stronger.” You say, appealing to the girl’s focus on power through pain. “Alecto, I may not have been through what they have, or even what you have…but I know they hurt. I know they’re in pain, and so are you. Your power may eat it, and I may not have my field anymore, but it’s plain as day to me that you’re suffering with a weight on your shoulders that’s bigger than anyone knows."

The young girl is quiet as she reaches out to the FuzzBuzz, taking it in her hands as she stares at the construct, her back still to you.

"You don’t have to do this alone. You have Dimezza. You have the Furies. You don’t have to take on their burdens by yourself - and if they knew what you’re doing for them? Then I think they’d want to help you.” You continue, your tone soft. “Isn’t that what you're here for? Why you all came here? To help, not to subdue. To give back choice, not take it away like so many did to you and your friends. So I’m asking you to let them help *you*, Alecto. Truly help you, just as you want to help them. There’s other ways to be strong, to deal with everything you’re fighting. Softer ways...and I don’t know about you, but I think the world’s had enough rough edges to last a lifetime.”

“…yeah.” She mutters quietly, barely heard over the chill winds. She’s thinking, her face obscured by her mess of hair as she absent-mindedly pets the FuzzBuzz in her arms.

“If anything, I know Dimezza would hear you out.” You add. “I’ve known her all of five minutes, and I can tell you mean the world to her.”

“…I’ll think about it.” Alecto finally says, not turning back to you as she continues onwards, returning to Dimezza and Dyna’s side. You just stand there for a long, silent moment as you and Uzu watch the young girl leave, FuzzBuzz in hand.

Bending double, you place your hands on your knees as you heave a tension-filled sigh while Uzu tentatively places a comforting hand on the small of your back.

“You okay?” She asks, eyes wide.

“Not in the least…” You reply, looking up at her with a haggard expression. “…but when has that ever stopped me?”

>>It’s time to talk to Leyra, the Vigilant’s Skintalker.

>>Take a moment to breathe and collect yourself, and maybe check in on an ally or two.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next three hours.)

>>4254718
>>4254720
(Oh no, I'm sorry this came too late. It's a superb write-in, truly.)

>>4254472
(I'll have to check it out!)
>>
>>4254757
>It’s time to talk to Leyra, the Vigilant’s Skintalker.

better now than never.
>>
>>4254757
>Collect yourself, take a couple deep breaths to regain your focus and composure if you. Place your own hand on Uzus
>"Thanks for being here Uzu"
>>It’s time to talk to Leyra, the Vigilant’s Skintalker.
>>
>>4254757
>Take a moment to breathe and collect yourself, and maybe check in on an ally or two.

>>4254765
Would my write-in have a better effect if it was considered and made valid?
I think the inclusion of Shu showing Alecto her personal experience of having gone through the cycle of Abuse, Anger, and fulfilling her hidden grudge/Revenge would have given Alecto a more insightful perspective from someone who went through it all.
I know it's too late, but I hope the write-in could have some effect in the future if we decide to tell Alecto this.

>>4254768
I don't want to do this rapid fire. We nearly had a fallout from Alecto. When you think about it as to what happened throughout the day, we had to deal with West Alpha, then the Altered Altar, and now the Cult. And at the speed we're going, Shu's clearly showing mental stress.

If we keep going now, Shu's bound to be frazzled by the time she makes her big speech. We. Need. A. Break. We need a breather.
>>
>>4254775
>>4254781
and i dont want to drag our feet and have something not give the Vigilante their chance to speak or us get the info we need from them.

we can take a break and take time to collect ourselves after we have talked to all three, as we'll need to take time to think about the speech and let them prepare for it and have time to get everyone there to hear it aswell. at least then too if something comes up, none can say their side was ignored or left waiting either.
>>
>>4254785

i just want Shu to gather herself for a moment to fix her looks and thank Uzu for being there for her.

i can make it more snappy however.

>>4254757
Amending vote from >>4254775

>Take a couple deep breaths to regain your focus and composure and fix your looks as best as possible while waiting for Leyra. Place your own hand on Uzus
>"Thanks for being here Uzu"
>>It’s time to talk to Leyra, the Vigilant’s Skintalker.
>>
>>4254781
also that doesn't have anything to do with your write in, BHOP cut that out of my vote too for some reason.
>>
>>4254792
>>4254765
actually i think you ignored the entire second half of my vote.
>>
>>4254785
Fair enough. But at least have us take a moment to preen ourselves before immediately calling up the skin talker.
>>
>>4254757
>>4254781
Amending vote to:
>"Let me talk to the Vigilants. Afterwards, I'm taking an actual break."
>Take a moment to breathe and collect yourself before calling up Leyra.
>>
>>4254781
>>4254792
>>4254796
(So someone around where I was had been banned, so I was't able to reply before my phone died.)

(Basically, after the initial 'fail trigger' was hit by comparing her actions to those of the abusers she had in mind, then her patience for any follow-up had been cut considerably short. You succeeded on the second roll, so instead of continuing and hitting another trigger of hers [trying to convince her of your own pain, at least at this tense juncture], I used the 'you are not alone' section, which is really the only thing that she'd be willing to listen to at this point.)

(It made sense in-character for Shu to reel it back a bit, since keeping on with the other full half of the speech would not have gone over well, and you've played Shu as the sort of person to be able to read a situation and realize when continuing to tread the same ground isn't exactly wise.)
>>
>>4254871
>So someone around where I was had been banned, so I was't able to reply before my phone died.
my lord i know those feels. irritating as all calloopy.

and...eh.
if we deserved a fail then we should've gotten one. feels too much like theres no point if you're going to cherry pick out our mistakes like that. Shus still human and can misread a situation or say the wrong thing. at the very least letting us decide what was next i think would've been better, over deciding what should or shouldn't be cut, as i personally would've thought trying to give her examples of where we're coming from may of helped. would it of? apparently not, but the decision had been made and then just cut out despite it.
>>
>>4254871
(Also, just remembering a point I made before my phone died - most of the encounters you've had up until now have been with people that're willing to hear you out in full, even with a fail state.)

(They're not Alecto, who's one of the toughest people you've had to interact with thus far.)
>>
>>4254871
that truly sucks...

Also not sure we deserved that pass.....
>>
>>4254884
>>my lord i know those feels. irritating as all calloopy.

(Oh, it's infuriating.)

>>at the very least letting us decide what was next i think would've been better, over deciding what should or shouldn't be cut
>>4254890


(...You know what? You're absolutely right. I'm sorry, my judgement's been compromised a lot given this week's been a bit of a bear, but in the future I'll be sure to do what I have in the past sometimes and cut the update right then and there to allow you to react accordingly.)

(I guess I'd like to ask you all this, as the reader/player base - would you all have been okay with the update cutting in the middle, and then having to re-salvage the interaction?)
>>
>>4254893
(And to clarify, what I mean by the 'cut' is not getting to the majority of a vote/monologue before interruption.)
>>
>>4254893
yeah.
We would have needed to reconvene and figure out how to salvage. To judge, reevaluate and find a new solution, since our approach at first obviously didn't work.

many low points i think in this quest have been when agency about things happening were taken away when circumstances changed in the middle of an update that we coudl not in any way shape or form predict.
Isabelle and instantly consuming Ozmases corpse is still a sore spot since we had absolutely no way of know that could happen at all. Having her there and start consumign would have been much nicer but no use crying over spilled milk
>>
>>4254902
>>4254893
I would be okay with it...but it does render the success above a bit moot since if I'm hearing this right, you're saying we're redoing our interaction with Alecto.
>>4254884

>>4254886
Oh dear. That's a major foreshadowing of how the Vigilants will behave when we have our 1 on 1 with them.
>>
>>4254893
>(I guess I'd like to ask you all this, as the reader/player base - would you all have been okay with the update cutting in the middle, and then having to re-salvage the interaction?)

I would have been okay with it but no use crying about spilled milk.

What happened happened. And you are nto the only one who had a rough week. i can empathize
>>
>>4254893
>>4254902
very much so, especially over this. its a bit of an opinion of course, but it could be argued whether it makes sense for Shu to have come to the same line and conclusions without the cut bit, and it feels like it takes away the weight and point of the choice being on our shoulders if anytime we might make a mistake, you just willy nilly cut and rearrange things to make it a win. it also makes the win feel wholly unjustified and sour honestly, we didn't deserve it at all if thats the case and any progress or steps forwards with Alecto or the Furies built off of that too is now undeserved and less impactful, aswell just feels like less of anything i want to see or interact with.

whats the point of us being a part of this if what we decide doesnt actually matter, good or bad?
>>
>>4254893
>>4254904
But, bottom line: Yes. I would be okay with the update cutting in the middle and leaving things for us to salvage the interaction on our own terms.
>>
>>4254903
>>4254904
>>4254910
>>4254913
>>4254914
(Completely fair, and I appreciate you all being honest with me and bearing with a poor call on my part. My wife and I were talking last night about how even though I'm an introvert by nature, current events have been weighing on me, regardless. I know we're all in the same boat, so I do hope you can forgive my gaffe, moving forwards.)
>>
>>4254918
its fine, and i do understand, and also apologize if the tone of my message was maybe a bit harsher than i meant.
...but i also wont lie that this to some degree falling in and following the theme of where alot of the biggest mistakes in the Quest came from probably made me react harder to it too, and i dont think fully unfairly either.
>>
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>>4254918
As long as it stays a fluke its fine Op for now or i might have to send someone to drive the point home. And get myself into massive debt with the blood god doing so.
>>
>>4254893
>(I guess I'd like to ask you all this, as the reader/player base - would you all have been okay with the update cutting in the middle, and then having to re-salvage the interaction?)
I'd actually prefer it if we cut in dialogue more frequently in general. Not just when we fail a conversation check, but as part of a more natural flow of speech. Cut down on us "speaking in paragraphs", as the Nothing put it. This isn't meant as an attack on the other players, many of whom do like to write out long speeches for Shu, but I just can't do that. I find it exhausting, to try to get in every last thought ahead of time, make sure everything is covered.

I'd like to do short, punchier statements, but if I do them then it's probably just going to get either ignored or swept up into larger write-ins, thanks to how you merge the most popular choices. Which makes me feel like my contributions don't have a point, and I often find myself just not voting. Maybe I'll stare at the screen for a while until the deadline is close, and throw out a hasty "Supporting" for someone else's, just to have it be there. But that's not really satisfying for me.

Again, I recognize that most of the players here actually do prefer to do long write-ins. So I don't expect there to be much change, accommodating me would mean getting rid of something they're fond of, that's not fair to them. Having more voting periods per conversation would also slow things down considerably, and that's another knock against the idea. I'm just saying my personal opinion, that I would like shorter intervals for conversations, let the less verbose write-ins get more play.
>>
>>4254923
(Like I said, where you're coming from is totally fair, given past events.)

>>4254924
(Ha, nice.)

>>4254926
(Yeah, it's been tough finding a middle ground in that regard. Smaller bits of dialogue and back-and-forths come more naturally to me, too.)
>>
>>4254926
>>4254918
I do kinda understand where you're coming from, and as ive said and tried before ive even tried to have others cut down on the size of their write-ins before.
but at the same time i do think speeches are justified, and i do think we get the length and when we give them right more often then not, and cutting those in half when its working or not necessary i wouldn't like either, just as much as BHOP deciding what parts to keep or when to fix our mistakes.

also, as you said, and its no hit to BHOP either, hell in some ways its a good thing, but with how long the voting times are and how big the updates are, i just dont think making them too short or cutting them too often would work, both for the flow of the Quest and ever making progress in it.

you could always do what ive done and say in your vote you dont want it merged.... wait i think BHOPS actually ignored me saying that before so im unsure that would help, hrm...
>>
>>4254935
(If I've ignored that before, it was completely on accident, I assure you. My apologies.)
>>
>>4254932
Yeah even though he is a disgraced Bloodthirster Skarbrand still clocks in at a heft price of 380 points considering how slow he is for such a big target.... On the other hand if he does make it into combat while heavily injured he is an absolute beast... My poor poor Treelord had to look for his splinters afterwards for months.

As for the topic of smaller updates....

If they woudl only be like two paragraphs i think it might be possible for them to have their voting times reduced drasticly but i agree with what was said already. It might make them to chopped up to make any real progress. Not that i would complain while trying to finish Minas story.

So i can see the merits on fewer but longer voting periods instead of hoping you have time to push several small updates over your day.
>>
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>>4254936
eh, maybe we all just compromised in time, i dunno. though even without that caveat, have been one or two times where you merged things i didnt think it made sense to merge, but i think thats where me saying that came from in the first place, so is what it is. not a big issue all things considered, and you usually do it decent enough justice despite it, i suppose im just being paranoid over what you just did to think about how much you choosing *what* to merge may of unfairly affected things when we otherwise didnt vote for a merge.
>>
>>4254944
(It's a simple fix, going forward - if there's legitimately *anything* that happens that might make you want to switch gears, then it's a break point to prevent even a semblance of rail-roading. No exceptions.)
>>
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>>4254945
thats fair. honestly besides this i cant really remember a major moment like that anyhow... well, one where the problem was specifically us clearly having a stopping point like that, over the choice just being moved on from in general.

we'll just have to think harder on our end to prevent that from being necessary too often.
>>
i just realized i my first Skyrim DND session tomorrow.... in the evening.. pretty much directly after biking home after work

So yeah i should head to bed if i want to catch enough sleep to get through that first session with several players that are completely new to tabletop RPGs and that i don't personally know

So yeah Good Night Anons

Good Night Op

And have a non-canon-sorceress from my favorite legion(and favorite Chaos god that a certain group of individuals in my story might or might not follow) as a farewell gift since i will probably be away for the weekend as well and wont have much time to check in
>>
>>4254968
night Anon and hope your game goes well.
but as much as im not a chaos guy, when i am... sorry, but blood for the blood god!
>>
>>4254968
(Rest well!)
>>
>>4254757
>>It’s time to talk to Leyra, the Vigilant’s Skintalker.
>But take a moment to catch our breath, that was an intense conversation and we'll need to be calm before dealing with the actively worshipful faction.

>>4254968
Good night, anon. I hope your session goes well.

>>4254945
Sounds reasonable.
>>
>>4254757

Taking a moment to collect yourself, you draw in a series of deep, meditative breaths.

"Thanks for being here, Uzu. And yeah, I...I'll be okay." You say, placing your hand on hers. "Let me talk to the Vigilants. Afterwards, I'm taking an actual break."

Clearing your throat and your head with a small cough, you address an acquaintance, sight unseen.

"Tabby? You can tell Bee that we're ready to talk to Leyra." You announce, and you barely have enough time to blink before Bee flickers into existence a few meters away, hand on the shoulder of the discombobulated girl that's arrived with her. She's a brainy sort...quite literally so, judging my the pink, fleshy hemispheres that make up her head. Tendrils of grey matter trail down her shoulders like thick, undulating braids with a pair of not-quite-symmetrical eyes set into her head's supple flesh. The simple dress she's wearing swishes about her ankles as she stumbles back, away from the speedster's hands and into yours.

"Unhand me this instant, you-!" She protests irritably, rounding on you just in time to realize who she's chastising. "You...YOU!"

She blinks, twin folds of pink tissue swiftly wiping her bare eyeballs once, twice, then a third and fourth time as she just stares at you, stunned beyond words. Tabby prepared you for a phalanx, an armored fortress of a girl who'd take time and patience to ease into conversation with...which has decidedly *not* prepared you for the girl that's now practically beside herself with excitement.

"Oh my, y-you're...oh my goodness, this is absolutely...I can't believe you're here, and that you wanted to...am I in trouble? No no no, I haven't...but what could've brought you here?" She rambles, practically shaking in your grasp as you glance to Bee for some sort of explanation. The speedster seems just as bewildered as you are, the look of suprise on her face a clear indication of this behavior most assuredly not being the norm.

"It's a pleasure to meet you, Leyra." You begin slowly, hoping to get the girl's manic pace to match that of your words. "Would you like to have a seat?"

Directing her scattered attention to the chair opposite yours, Leyra sits down as Bee backs away to grant you, Uzu, and the Vigilant's own Skintalker some privacy.

"Forgive me for my outburst." Leyra begins, her words reverberating from within her oddly-corrupted skull. "I was expecting you to come and speak with us soon, but still..."

"I can tell." You reply with an easy smile, relieved that she doesn't exactly seem the worshipping typ-

"On behalf of the Vigilant!" Leyra suddenly declares, bowing in her seat. "How may I be of service to you, Hunter of Gods, Defiant Among Daughters?"

Ah.

There it is.

>>"Hey, just call me Shu...and tell me a little about yourself."

>>"I've heard you're pretty outspoken among the Vigilant. How'd you get to that position?"

>>"About the Vigilant...if you were to describe them, where would you start?"

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Voting shall remain open for the next two hours, Gentlemen.)
>>
>>4255102
>"Please, just Shu is fine. we're all equals here, alright?"
>give her a small bow of respect in turn, to try and even things out a bit.
>"No ones in trouble, and i hope to keep it that way, though there are some... issues i wish to address before i leave here."
>"But thats not why i called you here, exactly."
>"Please, if you're feeling up to it, no pressure, but would you mind telling me a few things?"
>"Such as a bit about yourself? how you came to be a part of this group, and what made you stick around?"
>"What is it you believe? what is it the Vigilantes stand for?"
>"Take your time, and hold nothing back. i want all of it, the good, ugly, bad, whatever you feel needs to be said."
>>
>>4255105
also, do we see the cute but disturbing lil doll people poking out of her brain, or is that just a 'no image is perfect' thing?
because if so, we may have to trade her a Fuzzbuzz for one, i think Amara would adore such a thing.
>>
>>4255113
(Oh, you will. She's got a whole mess of abilities, many of which she's hybridized to odd effect.)
>>
>>4255113
>that spoiler
....are you sure about that? I know it's nice for Amara to make new friends but you gotta think about the kind of friends she's making, introduce her to the wrong friend and the wrong crowd and she'll end up on a path that we really don't want her to walk down.
>>
>>4255117
>you will
>not you do
well fingers crossed she shows us them for the right reasons, instead of her trying to have a buncha lil doll dudes punch our eyes out. it would be an embarrassing way to die if its because Uzu can help us over how adorably silly that would be to witness and thus shes too busy laughing.
>>
>>4255122
...Anon.... its a Doll.
it would just be a toy at the point, not an actual construct or anything. you dont have to overcomplicate just getting Amara a cute gift Anon...
>>
>>4255102
>>4255109

Oh dear...This is the fanatically pious sort of daughter. The zealous follower who is willing to take everything at face value in the presence of the one whom they worship. She's got a similar vibe to Michelle minus the whole yandere trance Michelle had.

If the Furies and the Vigilant were part of the same church, then I think the Vigilant are the ones who write the scriptures and religious doctrine while the Furies are the evangelical missionaries that go out to preach to the masses.

We must tread carefully. We don't want them to take everything we say with the wrong context as they may take all of our words at face value and dogma instead of actually stopping to ponder the meaning of our message.
>>
>>4255136
i mean, sure? we already knew that though, not too different from the Furies, just different issues.
dont think asking the standard questions we need answered though is a big deal though? even if it is, might be a hit we need to take if you're suggesting they are.
>>
>>4255102
>"Please...just Shu is fine."
>"This is my first time meeting you, Leyra. Can you tell me a about yourself? Why you joined and such?"
>"I would like to know more about the Vigilants, starting with these questions."
>"How did you as a group began to form?"
>"What prompted you to notice my actions?"
>"What made your group decide to follow me and subscribe to my philosophy?"
>"How would you describe your group?"
>"How did you become the spokesperson of the Vigilants?"
>"What are your opinions of the Adherents and the Furies?"
>"What parts of my philosophy do you ascribe to the most?"
>>
>>4255165
i think that might be a fare too many.
also feels odd to ask her her opinion on the rest and other aspects when we didnt ask that of the others. keeping it mostly consistent i think is a good idea.
>>
>>4255165
Care to suggest which ones to cut out? I'll repost the amendment vote after your suggestions.

Currently busy typing away at chapter 7 at the parts that don't need to be reworked. Taking it slow.
>>
>>4255102
>>Write-In
>"Please, there's no need for that. Those titles are just something I say when I need to boast. Call me Shu, it'll make things a lot easier."
>"I'm here because I want to learn more about you and your group. You've clearly formed some pretty strong opinions about me, and I'd like to know more about these girls who hold me in such high esteem."
>"So, whatever you're comfortable sharing, I'd like to hear it. How did your group come to form, specifics in what you believe in and want, even personal details about yourself if you're up for it."
>"And don't feel like you have to be so formal and respectful. I'm here to learn, not to command."
>>
>>4255203
>>4255171
I meant to link this post to you.
>>
>>4255203
>>4255165
the biggest one is asking her her opinion on the other factions. we didnt for the others, and out of all of them, she so far seems like exactly the one who would lord it over others we asked her more than the other 'leaders', which could cause problems.

i also feel like asking her about our philosophy can be cut, as we can easily wrap that up into asking her about herself, her views, and the vigilantes views. by nature she would touch on that at least a bit from those.

what prompted her to notice us feels like it isnt needed either, and also wraps up into why she joined the group aswell.

i also feel like we dont need to know exactly what part she ascribes to the most. it again kinda is tacked into some other questions, but i also feel like isnt relevant or she would be too biased about it, in the sense "well, i describe to all of it perfectly, obviously" sorta deal i dont think would end well.

dont think we need to know exactly how she became the spokeperson, but that one too might also wrap around to other ones. this one isnt so bad though it could be kept though and id would be more unopinionated on it than anything, but i do feel the wording needs some work if you do keep it.
>>
>>4255165
>>4255102
Amending my vote
>"Please...just Shu is fine."
>"This is my first time meeting you, Leyra. Can you tell me a about yourself?
>"How did you as a group began to form?"
>"How would you describe your group?"
>"How did you become the spokesperson of the Vigilants?"
>>
>>4255228

"Please, just Shu is fine. Those titles are just something I say when I need to boast. Call me Shu, it'll make things a lot easier.?" You say, putting on what you hope is a relaxed smile in the face of Leyra's adoration. Giving her a small bow of respect in kind, you continue. "No one's in trouble, and I hope to keep it that way. There are some issues I wish to address before I leave here...but thats not why I called you here, exactly."

Leyra cocks her head to one side ever so slightly, the gesture causing her expanded cranium to jiggle in a rather curious way.

"Please, if you're feeling up to it - and know that there's no pressure - but would you mind telling me a few things?"

"It would be an honor!" She replies, utterly delighted. "How may I be of service?"

"Could you tell me a bit about yourself, for starters? How you came to be a part of this group, and what made you stick around?"

"Well, Def...Miss Shu. Shu." She begins, curling the fingers of her hands together almost as if in some form of prayer. "My name is Leyra Cassamassa. Nineteen years old. Blood type 'A'. From grades two to six I attended the Carrollton School of the Sacred Heart in Miami, Florida, before my father got a job in-"

She pauses, 'blinking' twice before her shoulders go rigid.

"That's...that's probably not what you were asking for." She says in an embarassed murmur. "I woke to this world as it is around four months ago. I was in class when the Crucible struck, and I had the blessing of awakening with many of my classmates. In the initial chaos and confusion, I stood firm, and with me as a humble anchor my sisters flourished. We kept watch over the pods of those who'd yet to awaken, and once we all were in accord, we set off to understand our new situation. Our name - the Vigilant - was granted to us by the people of New Cross, a settlement far to the east of here. They'd been ravaged by something beyond their comprehension, and were beset by opportunists when we found them. My sisters and I came to their aid, and there we were when the source of their suffering came once more...with a very different message."

"Charon." You supply, earning an acknowledging nod from the girl seated across from you.

"The one and the same. They were afraid, and so were we...but we believe that redemption is a path able to be walked by all, should they be brave enough to choose it."

"So what is it you believe, if I may be so bold? What is it that the Vigilant stand for?" You ask, keeping your tone relaxed, non-accusatory. "Take your time, and hold nothing back. I want all of it, the good, ugly, bad, whatever you feel needs to be said."

Her face betrays no emotion, but the clenching of her hands and her straightened posture tells you that if she had a mouth, it would bear a proud, beaming smile.

(Continued)
>>
>>4255337

"Our philosophy has evolved to this; the Vigilant aspire to emulate the example you've set. Reach out to the broken, the needy, the wanting...and help them to thrive physically, mentally, and emotionally, while providing them a safe haven from which to grow. Grant them to tools and the means to carve their own path while we wait for you to ascend."

"And when I climb the Cord, and my family and I end this?" You forward, and Leyra nods, thoughtfully.

"It is my belief...my hope, and the hope of all who call themselves 'Vigilant'...that we will live to see the day that the responsibility of leading this broken world into a better future will be taken up by you, Shu. Willingly." She adds, almost apologetically. "Your latest broadcast to the world shook many of us, but while some resolved to find their faith with the other two factions - and I do not blame them, for all must find their own way - I and the remainder of my sisters have held firm in our faith. I understand that you do not desire that sacred burden, now...and that's okay. You believe that it's best entrusted to others, and I admire and respect your faith in them."

She looks up at you, daring to meet your gaze directly for the first time since she's arrived.

"But I beileve that the Cord will change that. I believe that you'll see our planet for how broken and brittle it is, and the love you have for your family...nay, *all* the people of this world...will guide you to your appointed path. But you're not ready yet. So until the day comes that you pick up the mantle of our futures, we shall wait, and watch, and help. With every step, and every breath - we are Vigilant."

...

Fuck.

>>You're going to have to let this girl down easy. You're no god - now, or ever.

>>You can't afford to handle her zealotry with kid gloves. Be honest, be forward, and don't mince words.

>>Christ...you're not sure where to start with this absurdity. Ask Leyra a few more questions before you give her a crisis of faith.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, I shall be pausing here for the evening. Voting shall remain open for the next thirteen hours, with posting to resume at 2:00PM tomorrow, Eastern time. I will be watching a film with Mrs. BHOP and a few friends this evening, but I shall be keeping an eye on the Vein to address any questions, comments, or concerns you all may have. I wish you a restful evening, one and all, and thank you for much for your continued participation, patience, and enthusiasm.)
>>
oh boy. this ain't gonna be pretty.

>"It is my belief...my hope, and the hope of all who call themselves 'Vigilant'...that we will live to see the day that the responsibility of leading this broken world into a better future will be taken up by you, Shu. Willingly."

this is the core philosophy that binds them together: waiting for a messiah figure to rule over the world as a god-empress. What are they Christians? the settlement of New Cross seems like a christian settlement. I think we need to ask a few more questions as to the origins of the Vigilant before we invoke the mandatory crisis of faith.
>>
>>4255337
>From grades two to six I attended the Carrollton School of the Sacred Heart in Miami, Florida.
>google's name of school:
>Carrollton School of the Sacred Heart is a Catholic college preparatory day school for girls founded in 1961 in the neighborhood of Coconut Grove in Miami, Florida.

Yup. She's a catholic alright. She's using her religion as a basis for the Vigilant philosophy. And that basically sets the tone for the rest of the group. In short, they're catholic Christians. They're relying the bible scripture to keep themselves sane and probably think the Crucible is part of the Book of Revelations (that damned book is actually part of the New Testament bible), and that Shu is their Jesus.
>>
>>4255344
>>4255349
(Oh, they used to be Christian...what they are now is quite a few steps removed from that, as I'm sure you see.)
>>
>>4255340
>Blink.
>Then take a long, deep breath.
>"Leyra... i appreciate you and yours trust in me... but surely you understand right? for me to do that, for me to even think about wielding that power, for me to rule... it would not just go against everything i believe in, everything i have said and stood for.... it would dismantle it, it would crush it under heel."
>"I would be a hypocrite, no better than Mother or any who came before her. My words, my morals... they would mean nothing, would disintegrate overnight."
>Catch her eyes, let the seriousness of what you're about to say come through clearly.
>"If i were to do that... id need to be killed, brought down and destroyed. and rightfully so."

>Let that hang in the air a moment, before letting out a breath, and looking out the door to the camp beyond.
>"Do you really know? really understand what i stand for?"
>"Do you really understand why i stood against Mother? why i struck down Yurei?"
>Turn back to her.
>"Freedom. Choice. Self Determination."
>"I am no god Leyra. Nor shall i ever be one."
>"If that is how you view me, if that is what you wish me to become..."
>"...then id prefer you not to follow me or what ive said at all."

>Sigh, and reach out, take one of Leyra hands, and give her a kind, pleading look.
>"I stand firm by all ive said, all ive done... But Leyra... im no one special."
>"No more special than you, or anyone else out there... ive made my mistakes, ive fumbled, ive fallen."
>Chuckle, and look over to Uzu for a moment, giving her a smile, before turning back to Leyra.
>"I would be nothing without my Family, my Friends. nothing ive accomplished, ive done so alone. nothing ive learned to love or stand firm in, i could've learned without them."
>"Leyra, its not about me. or you. or my Family, my friends, or yours."
>Give her hand a slight squeeze.
>"Its about *Everyone*. its about learning from others, from putting your faith in others and growing with them. its about looking at them, and seeing how you can improve yourself, its about learning to trust *yourself* by being willing to let others touch your lives."
>sigh, and let your head hang low.
>"Please, dont put me on a pedestal. learn from me, from my family, but dont put your trust in us. not alone."
>Look back up to her."
>"Learn to put trust in yourself, in others. be someone they can learn from, look up to, and let them be that for you."
>"Dont put all your faith in one person, dont ignore what you can learn from me, by instead thinking im all there is to learn."
>Pull back, and give her a soft genuine smile.
>"You dont need me Leyra. you or the Vigilants. all you need is eachother, and that kind, hopeful spirit you touch others lives with. *that* is what you should trust, *that* is what you should put your faith in."
>...Because its what i put mine in, whenever i see my family, or hear about wonderful people like yours, who give so much and help so many."
>>
>>4255340
>Christ...you're not sure where to start with this absurdity. Ask Leyra a few more questions before you give her a crisis of faith.

>"And what is it you believe that I would do if I were to ascend and take the the throne?"
>"What do you expect the world to be if I were to rule? What do you expect out of me if I was on Mother's throne? And how would you believe in my supposed leadership?"
>"What would you do then afterwards if I ascend the throne?"
>>
>>4255341
hope the movie is good, and you all enjoy eachothers company. toss a kernel of popcorn at the missus for me.
>>
>>4255341
Have a nice evening, BHOP. Enjoy the movie.
>>
>>4255367
i really disagree we need to ask more question, and moreso, i disagree heavily we need to ask those. they dont matter, at all. it wont change our stance, both in general or in what needs to be said. we arent doing that, so what she thinks doesn't matter. its pointless time wasting that will only get her more hopped up on the idea and less likely to listen, while giving us nothing to work with, because what we would do after has no relevance to the fact we arent going to do it anyways.
>>
>>4255364
I don't like the idea of this write-in, but I don't like how it's worded.

You're going out guns blazing and expecting Leyra to listen the rest of the speech that is sure to break her faith. The points that you've written down are good, but they're in the wrong rearrangement. Your mention of striking down Yurei is also not needed because it might be interpreted as something that could be skewed towards the Fury mindset. Remember our breaking speech to Yurei? about how creating a dictatorship or a matrix system is bound to fall? That speech is something I think the Vigilants will not appreciate. Remember they're a few steps removed from Christianity and still have that idea that Shu will create the "Heaven on Earth" utopia but in the flavor of body horror. It's distinct but it's still has the same core idea. Apocalypse, shattered earth, messiah arises, second coming, utopia on earth after the messiah takes his/her place as the new ruler.

Remember Alecto? You went out guns blazing and the moment the first mistake came up Alecto nearly rejected the rest of our write-ins were it not for Bhop's fumble on switching to dice rolls and calling our salvaging roll a success. I don't want to risk a repeat.

The first part can be shorted by a lot. Shorten it to by telling Leyra that if Shu were to take the throne, it would be the ultimate act of hubris and the greatest betrayal of Shu's own moral code, and it would be the downfall of the world. Put it into context of her previous religion. Even though it is a few steps removed, she would still be able to understand the sin of pride and how the arrogance would lead to Shu's downfall and by extension the world's downfall as well.

I like the third part of the paragraph, it's a humble paragraph and speaks well with the whole message that the Vigilants still adhere to. Help others out, help them survive. Love and trust and all that happy part. That can go first.

Second paragraph is where we start deviating from her expectations. We point out the differences between our the philosophy of the Vigilant and that of our own. Get her to see the parallels and the differences.

Then we strike true and hard. We tell her we are not a god. We don't aim for god hood. Just a single sentence, don't drag it out. Any more and it might cause her to reject any follow-ups.
Immediately after we tell her the breaking line, we follow up with our personal reasons why. Appeal to her Christian faith by pointing out the sin of hubris, how it's the greatest act of betrayal, and tell her succintly that if Shu were to take upon the mantle of godhood, she would just become another tyrant, and that act would bring about Earth's doom.

Afterwards if Leyra still allows us to continue, we go back to our book ends. Appeal to her Christian virtues, Humility, Diligence, Temperance, Kindness. Tell her something to at least show that we still have the qualities that they admire, even if we don't aspire for godhood.
>>
>>4255410
>>4255364

>I don't like the idea of this write-in, but I don't like how it's worded.
Bleh.
What I meant to say is
I LIKE the Idea, but I don't like how the wording is arranged.
>>
>>4255410
>I don't like the idea of this write-in, but I don't like how it's worded.
so... you like none of it? wording seems iffy here or something.

>You're going out guns blazing and expecting Leyra to listen the rest of the speech that is sure to break her faith.
i actually think im being pretty damn soft, but shes not going to listen if we coddle her. she'll ignore it too much if we dont give out some hits to her faith. and we WANT to break her faith as it currently is. that is the entire point.

>That speech is something I think the Vigilants will not appreciate.
GOOD! we dont condone what they want, or what Yurei Wanted. what, you want to just shut our yap and lie to her? thats not going to help at all. we disagree with her. im telling her we do and trying to convince her of another way. she is either convinced or she isnt, but if she isnt, then we dont just suddenly agree with her, we still need to stand firm and tell her we wont stand by or with her beliefs. and Yurei is a perfect example of us both standing up for our beliefs AND standing against what the Vigilantes stand for, and why we do aswell.

>Remember they're a few steps removed from Christianity and still have that idea that Shu will create the "Heaven on Earth" utopia but in the flavor of body horror.
and we wont, and they need to know that and be told that. im honestly going super light on that too, compared to what they probably need.

>Put it into context of her previous religion.
i disagree horribly heavily with that. putting in in the context of her religion will allow her to cling too heavily to the religious aspect or angle, which im again, already not hitting as hard as she might need to be hit at there.

>Remember Alecto?
ah yes i totally forgot something that only just happened.

>I don't want to risk a repeat.
Different person, different context, different words, and i disagree, im already going significantly softer in tone and wording here than with Alecto by a country mile.

>I like the third part of the paragraph.
>Second paragraph is where we start deviating from her expectations.
>Then we strike true and hard.
shes not going to listen to what we actually stand for if the first thing we do is reinforce her views and how she views us. that is am utterly terrible idea. you have to knock her out of her viewpoint to SOME degree first, otherwise she'll just get all hyped up and skew the rest of it. shes a fanatic, you dont feed her fanaticism first, you have to break it down to some degree if you wish for it to change or her to listen to anything else.

>Appeal to her Christian faith
again, an utterly horrible and terrible idea to appeal to her religion at all. all doing so will do is give her a religious angle to cling to and interpret this all by. we specifically have to and need to break her out of the religious mindset, so we can have her view us as outside and and not part of it.
>>
>>4255434
Fair points on all of them.

>so... you like none of it? wording seems iffy here or something.
It was a massive typo and I was trying to squeeze in my criticisms within 1 post.

Let me try and think of something else to either add to the write in or point out something to the write-in more succinct.
but right now my attention's been divided by other things.
>>
>>4255449
take your time. im not as tired today and we have the time.
plus maybe the other Anon or another will give some input by then, we'll see.
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>>4255340
>>>You can't afford to handle her zealotry with kid gloves. Be honest, be forward, and don't mince words.

> also tell her you want to cum in her mouth
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>>4255483
>>4255340

Good one, but I'm vetoing that vote.

That's a hard no.
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>>4255483
>>4255340
Anon, Leyra doesnt even have a mouth.
i could say alot about the issues with that action despite it very much being a joke, but ill have to veto that one first and foremost because you overlooked a key issue with doing that in the first place.

veto.
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>>4255483
(I feel like there's a joke about cumbrain here somewhere.)

(...I'll see myself out.)
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>>4255563
id take another point from you BHOP but i dont know what that is to justify it.
...and no, i dont want to figure it out.
>>
>>Write-In
>"I"m honored that you have so much faith in me, Leyra. It's not a small thing, to be considered worthy of guiding the world."
>"But however worthy I might be, I'm only one woman. I can't speak for the entire world."
>"It's not that I'm too humble. I'm perfectly confident in my abilities. It's not an issue of capability, give me an army to help carry the burden and it still wouldn't matter because they'd all be marching to my will."
>"It's about understanding. My own limited worldview can't possibly encompass every issue and concern for the entire species. I can't know what's best for everyone because I have not lived their lives."
>"You're right, I do love the world. But love can't be one-sided, it has to be able to listen...

Not linking this because this is WIP, not a vote, I hit a writer's block and have been just staring at this for a while. Thus the elipsis at the end. Maybe someone can help me. I'm trying to convey the idea that our loving humanity doesn't necessarily mean that we'll be able to do right by humanity. That love is only good in so far as it's able to give the other party what they actually need instead of what needs you project onto them, and the best way to do that is for the other party to be an equal, to have a voice just as valid as yours. And that's why us loving the world means that we actually can't be in charge, because that leaves only a single voice to speak. But I keep getting tangled up on the wording and now I'm second-guessing myself and not even sure if what I do have written down even conveys that idea in the first place.
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>>4255608
honestly my problem with that idea is it still focuses on Shu too much without addressing the root of the problem. it too much just enforces her idea we simple arent Ready yet to accept our role, over actually at all truly dismantling it at its roots. it also has Shu hyping herself up too much, which will just reinforce the idea of putting faith in Shu, while i think Shu pointing out how much those around her have helped her will both help break down the image of Shu as the one doing everything, aswell as help them look at the bigger picture.

i get the intent, but its playing it way too safe with not enough that actually hits back at her ideas, over simply saying we're not ready or the one to fulfill them.

>>4255608
>>4255489
which thats also a big issue NONE of us can honestly write an exit for ill admit. she already told us the biggest issue here; she just thinks Shu isnt ready to accept her role in this yet. because of that, anything we say might be twisted as her simply thinking we arent ready yet, and will be later. we just haven't accepted the truth yet. and the problem is, there is literally no argument against that, because she thinks its the Cord that will do that, and we havent even slightly experienced it to be able to say it wont.

its less something we can overcome, or we even CAN change anything to counteract, let alone should, but it is an outcome we need to be prepared for. the ONLY solution to that i can think of would be to absolutely trash and break her, maybe even physically, but we simply cant justify that.
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>>4255629
>i get the intent, but its playing it way too safe with not enough that actually hits back at her ideas, over simply saying we're not ready or the one to fulfill them.
Okay, I am conveying my thoughts poorly, then, because I wasn't trying to go that direction at all. I was trying to go with a sort of mixed emotional/rational approach for why it's not just us who shouldn't be taking the role of god, but why it's not even a workable idea to begin with. But I apparently didn't even convey that well in my notes on the thing I wasn't conveying well. Blarg. Okay, starting over.

>and the problem is, there is literally no argument against that, because she thinks its the Cord that will do that, and we havent even slightly experienced it to be able to say it wont.
Yeah, that's very true. She's got certain faith in us, which like I said is flattering but also kind of worrying. Maybe it's not possible to completely wean her off the idea of "Shu should guide the world", maybe the best we can do is get her to a point where she won't be too disappointed if we don't.
>>
>>4255629
Any thoughts on this write-in? I haven't linked it to the vote so it's still a draft.

>"Leyra...I appreciate you and yours and all that you've done to help humanity I appreciate the trust you put into me to stop the Crucible.
>"But...
>"You ask too much of me.
>"You ask me to extend my love to the entire world.
>"You ask me to take on the mantle of godhood.
>"That task is one that I cannot, no- a task that I will not commit to.
>"To sit upon the throne that I toppled and take upon the mantle of godhood is will be the ultimate act of betrayal. An act of betrayal against the world, against my morals, against my family, a betrayal that goes against everything that I am.
>"Why would a defiant hunter of gods topple other gods only to become a god herself? It is hubris. It is hypocrisy.
>"My words, my morals, they would disintegrate the moment I put my ass down on that chair.
>"If I were to do that...then I would be no better than Mother herself. I would become another tyrant, that needs to be killed, brought down and destroyed by another defiant, and rightfully so."

>"The world does not need gods, Leyra. I cannot be a god. Weren't we struggling to survive under the heels of another god just few weeks ago?"
>"A god named "Mother" who enforced her cruel law by the being named Charon?"

>"Leyra...I cast aside my empathy field for a good reason. It was because it was corrupting me."
>"Power corrupts people, power can turn even the most virtuous daughter into a tyrant, Godhood is the ultimate form of corruption when that power infects the very essence of a person."
>"The reason I cast aside my empathy field is because I've tasted that temptation of Godhood, the taste of tyrany, and the corruption of power.
>"My empathy field began to corrupt how I viewed my family. Thoughts and feelings began flowing into my head without my consent or need. Things that I did not want to hear. It was invasive, pervasive, and threatened to corrupt my love and relationship to my family. I found out that I could force out truths or discussions without their consent. I feared that eventually it would morph into something even more insidious. Something akin to the story I told my daughter Amara about the Wizard and his magic words.
>"I cast aside that power because I loved my family. I did not want to subject them to the corruption of that power, and by extension world.
>"I am human Leyra. I am mortal. I am defiant, yes. And I hunt gods too should their hubris grow too big. But I am NOT a god Leyra. Nor am I fit to be one."
>>
>>4255636
>Okay, I am conveying my thoughts poorly, then, because I wasn't trying to go that direction at all. I was trying to go with a sort of mixed emotional/rational approach for why it's not just us who shouldn't be taking the role of god, but why it's not even a workable idea to begin with. But I apparently didn't even convey that well in my notes on the thing I wasn't conveying well. Blarg. Okay, starting over.
oh, yeah i didnt get that from it at all ill admit. still dont think that alone is enough, and might still need something hitting a bit harder first to get past her defenses, but as part of an argument i can see merit in it.

>She's got certain faith in us, which like I said is flattering but also kind of worrying. Maybe it's not possible to completely wean her off the idea of "Shu should guide the world", maybe the best we can do is get her to a point where she won't be too disappointed if we don't.
we'll see. best we can do i simply put where we really stand down like a line in the sand and hope she at least accepts it, because if we do it right she would have to lower her defenses as it was at least a little, even if we arent able to break them.

but, we'll see there. like i said, its one of those annoying things where she has already come up with an infallible reason to dismiss anything we say that disagrees with what she wants. i just really hope its not us literally not doing that that is what it takes to break he out of it, but... well...
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>>4255640
first line missing a period?

eh... the first part feels like it starts off a bit too softly.

some of it is ok, but oddly enough you swung the hammer even harder and with even less mercy than me, and with absolutely no attempt to show her another route or steer her towards something better, or actually besides the Empathic Field, explain any of it truly at all, over just stating what you feel it is.

for once, i think it might actually be too harsh. it just simply snuffs out the light, over trying to cast a different shadow. it also i think focues way too much on the empathic Field and nothing else as an example or reason too.

>"If I were to do that...then I would be no better than Mother herself. I would become another tyrant, that needs to be killed, brought down and destroyed by another defiant, and rightfully so."
is a good replacement line for my similar one though, and mentioning the fact we just got out of the thumb of another god and how gods kinda caused this mess isnt a bad idea, but not something i think stands on its own, especially without like i said giving her even a bit of sympathy or hope to shift to.
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>>4255652
Any suggestions on tying the whole empathy field line of thought to something else to give it better support?

I liked the line that I wrote about can be a good point that would swing the hammer down on that world view.

>"The world does not need gods, Leyra. I cannot be a god. Weren't we struggling to survive under the heels of another god just few weeks ago?"
>"A god named "Mother" who enforced her cruel law by the being named Charon?"

But like you said it can't really stand on its own.

As for my thoughts when I wrote that draft. My intention was to go down hard on breaking that zealous core philosophy on their idea that Shu is destined for godhood and went all out. We need to be FIRM on that point and draw that trench in the sand. So I wrote the draft and asked for your advice on picking which parts of the draft we can use.

I wanted to use the empathy field as an example point of how godhood is ultimately something that corrupts the person in the position as one of the reasons why we turned it down as well as our three
core ideas of Freedom, Choice, and Self Determination; as having a god to rule the planet would ultimately stifle all three ideas that we want to live up to.
>>
>>4255659
i agree on coming down hard but like i said we may need to be firm but we can still go too far with it even here. especially if we give nothing in return in the other direction.

as for the Field, i guess maybe shortening it down and tying it into how we cant stand for choice, freedom, or self determination while we can dig everything and anything out of peoples minds, giving them no freedom on what to tell us or keep from us, giving them no chance to figure anything out for themselves, and always having a one up to bend or twist them into whatever choice we want over them. that and of course how us being a god would only make that worse and thus stifle those more. something akin to that maybe, but probably will a little more flair of course, and not only relying on it or the field for the whole thing id say.
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>>4255340
>>4255364
Amending;
>Blink.
>Then take a long, deep breath.
>"Leyra... i appreciate you and yours trust in me... but you dont seem to understand."
>"for me to do that, for me to even think about wielding that power, for me to rule... it would not just go against everything i believe in, everything i have said and stood for.... it would dismantle it, it would crush it under heel."
>"I would be a hypocrite, no better than Mother or any who came before her. My words, my morals... they would mean nothing, would disintegrate overnight."
>Catch her eyes, let the seriousness of what you're about to say come through clearly.
>"If I were to do that...then I would be no better than Mother herself. I would become another tyrant, that needs to be killed, brought down and destroyed by another defiant, and rightfully so."
>"The world does not need gods, Leyra. to be a god is to stand against all i have fought for. Weren't we struggling to survive under the heels of another god? Arent we still?"
>"A god named "Mother" who enforced her cruel law, and the god called the 'Crucible', whos grip still chokes us out slowly."

>Let that hang in the air a moment, before letting out a breath, and looking out the door to the camp beyond.
>"Do you really understand what i stand for?"
>"Do you really understand why i stood against Mother? why i struck down Yurei?"
>Turn back to her.
>"Freedom. Choice. Self Determination."
>"A god cannot support these, a god crushes them, snuffs them out."
>"A god sees all, and touches all. and that is not what i stand for, and ive already shown proof of that."
>"My Empathic field. it was invasive. IT took those away from all around me."
>"No freedom, as they could hide nothing from me, and i could take anything they thought from them."
>"No Choice. for i could know everything about them, to bend and twist to my whims."
>"No Self Determination. how could there be, when i know everything about them to guide or force their path?"
>"I am no god Leyra. Nor shall i ever be one."
>"Because ive already given that up, and ill do it again... and bring down anyone else who tries."
>"If that is how you view me, if that is what you wish me to become..."
>"...then id prefer you not to follow me or what ive said at all."

(1/2)
>>
>>4255340
>>4255684
>Sigh, and reach out, take one of Leyra hands, and give her a kind, pleading look.
>"I stand firm by all ive said, all ive done... But Leyra... im no one special."
>"No more special than you, or anyone else out there... ive made my mistakes, ive fumbled, ive fallen."
>Chuckle, and look over to Uzu for a moment, giving her a smile, before turning back to Leyra.
>"I would be nothing without my Family, my Friends. nothing ive accomplished, ive done so alone. nothing ive learned to love or stand firm in, i could've learned without them."
>"Leyra, its not about me. or you. or my Family, my friends, or yours."
>Give her hand a slight squeeze.
>"Its about *Everyone*. its about learning from others, from putting your faith in others and growing with them. its about looking at them, and seeing how you can improve yourself, its about learning to trust *yourself* by being willing to let others touch your lives."
>sigh, and let your head hang low.
>"Please, dont put me on a pedestal. learn from me, from my family, but dont put your trust in us. not alone."
>Look back up to her."
>"Learn to put trust in yourself, in others. be someone they can learn from, look up to, and let them be that for you."
>"Dont put all your faith in one person, dont ignore what you can learn from me, by instead thinking im all there is to learn."
>Pull back, and give her a soft genuine smile.
>"You dont need me Leyra. you or the Vigilants. all you need is eachother, and that kind, hopeful spirit you touch others lives with. *that* is what you should trust, *that* is what you should put your faith in."
>"...Because its what i put mine in, whenever i see my family, or hear about wonderful people like yours, who give so much and help so many."

(2/2)
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>>4255684
>>4255685
This write in is coming together. But I think it can use some improvements. What do you think of the changes for these lines?

From
>"If I were to do that...then I would be no better than Mother herself. I would become another tyrant, that needs to be killed, brought down and destroyed by another defiant, and rightfully so."
into
>"If I were to do that...then I would be no better than Mother herself. I would become another tyrannical god, that needs to be killed, brought down and destroyed by another defiant hunter of gods, and rightfully so."

From
>"The world does not need gods, Leyra. To become a god is to stand against all i have fought for. Weren't we struggling to survive under the heels of another god? Aren't we still struggling under their heels even now?"
into
>"Aren't we struggling under the heels of a god named "Mother" who enforced her cruel tyranny through the power she gained from ascension, and the God named "The Crucible" whose ever tightening grip chokes the life out of Earth and its inhabitants with each passing day?"

From
>"Freedom. Choice. Self Determination."
>"A god cannot support these, a god crushes them, snuffs them out."
>"A god sees all, and touches all. and that is not what i stand for, and ive already shown proof of that."
>"My Empathic field. it was invasive. IT took those away from all around me."
>"No freedom, as they could hide nothing from me, and i could take anything they thought from them."
>"No Choice. for i could know everything about them, to bend and twist to my whims."
>"No Self Determination. how could there be, when i know everything about them to guide or force their path?"
>"I am no god Leyra. Nor shall i ever be one."

To
>"Freedom. Choice. Self Determination."
>"A god cannot support these, a god crushes them, snuffs them out."
>"A god sees all, controls all, and touches all. and that is not what i stand for, and I've already witnessed proof of concept in the form of my Empathetic field."
>"My empathetic field was invasive. Everything that I stood for, IT nearly stole away from everyone around me."
>"No freedom, as they could hide nothing from me, and I could take anything they thought from them."
>"No Choice. For I could know everything about them, to bend and twist to my whims."
>"No Self Determination. For how could there be Self Determination, when i know everything about them to guide or force their path?"
>"I am no god Leyra. Nor shall I ever be one."
>>
>>4255715
>>4255684
>From
>>"The world does not need gods, Leyra. To become a god is to stand against all i have fought for. Weren't we struggling to survive under the heels of another god? Aren't we still struggling under their heels even now?"
>into
>>"Aren't we struggling under the heels of a god named "Mother" who enforced her cruel tyranny through the power she gained from ascension, and the God named "The Crucible" whose ever tightening grip chokes the life out of Earth and its inhabitants with each passing day?"

This is not what I meant, what I meant to suggest is turning
>"The world does not need gods, Leyra. to be a god is to stand against all i have fought for. Weren't we struggling to survive under the heels of another god? Arent we still?"
>"A god named "Mother" who enforced her cruel law, and the god called the 'Crucible', whos grip still chokes us out slowly."
into
>"The world does not need gods, Leyra. To become a god is to stand against all i have fought for. Weren't we struggling to survive under the heels of another god? Aren't we still struggling under their heels even now?"
>"Aren't we struggling under the heels of a god named "Mother" who enforced her cruel tyranny through the power she gained from ascension, and the God named "The Crucible" whose ever tightening grip chokes the life out of Earth and its inhabitants with each passing day until the day we all breathe our last?"
>>
>>4255715
>First
i dont think it flows well to use both Defiant and Hunter of Gods. one or the other. and adding the 'god' after tyrant only fits with the Hunter of God one. im indifferent to which i suppose, both work, but certainly only one or the other.

>Second
im not fully sure what you want or fully mean with the second one, as the first one you copied isnt even fully a line i have in mine, and the one you changed it to has parts i included but you didn't put into what you want to change in the first place, so its a bit confusing.
all i can think to say is i think hitting home with us not needing gods first fits better.

>Third
changing 'touch' to 'control' is a good change, but i dont like the additions to that line. going with 'witnessed' instead of 'shown proof' i can get behin, but adding on the Empathic Field part makes it a bit too long, and doesn't flow well with us mention it again in the next line.
i could go with
>"My empathetic field, it was invasive. Everything that I stood for, It stole those away from everyone around me."
as a compromise.

i really dont think we need to say Self Determination twice like that.

>>4255723
oh, so that was a mistake.

saying 'become' instead of 'be' works, but i think again the addition to the end extends it more than really flows well, so im against that extension.
again with the second line. just feels like it extends it too much, turns it into a mouthful over details not really needed.
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>>4255754
>First
Change it to "God" and "Hunter of Gods". The Vigilant's core aim is to guide Shu to godhood. Although how receptive they are to the idea and if they plan on taking drastic measures by forcing that mantle onto us is a different matter.

Actually, that brings up another point that I want to be firm on. Shu will not tolerate having the idea of having a choice forced upon her. If the Vigilantes decide to put their efforts into engineering situations that force Shu to make choices that force/condition her to accept the idea of power and godhood, then you and I know that we won't take to the idea well. So I think we should also shut Leyra down on that front.

>2nd & 3rd
Make the changes that you feel comfortable with accepting.
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>>4255763
hrm... i dont disagree, but i also dont exactly see signs of that. at.. best? worst? whatever, she seems to think she can sit back and the Cord will convince us of that. which... again, the problem is its such a far off and big thing we cant really dispute it, only at best the fact she thinks its a guarantee.

I get and dont disagree with you, only think we might need to see her response, maybe even the Vigilants in general, before we bring that up, because unlike the rest i dont think we have justification yet to think she would do that or go that far.
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>>4255763
>>4255754
Any idea on how we can shut down the idea to the Vigilantes that they can force Shu to accept godhood? any ideas on words that would dissuade them?
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>>4255772
fair enough.
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>>4255340
>>4255684
Amending again;

>Blink.
>Then take a long, deep breath.
>"Leyra... i appreciate you and yours trust in me... but you dont seem to understand."
>"for me to do that, for me to even think about wielding that power, for me to rule... it would not just go against everything i believe in, everything i have said and stood for.... it would dismantle it, it would crush it under heel."
>"I would be a hypocrite, no better than Mother or any who came before her. My words, my morals... they would mean nothing, would disintegrate overnight."
>Catch her eyes, let the seriousness of what you're about to say come through clearly.
>"If I were to do that...then I would be no better than Mother herself. I would become another tyrannical god, that needs to be killed, brought down and destroyed by another Hunter of Gods, and rightfully so."
>"The world does not need gods, Leyra. to become a god is to stand against all i have fought for. Weren't we struggling to survive under the heels of another god? Arent we still?"
>"A god named "Mother" who enforced her cruel law, and the god called the 'Crucible', whos grip still chokes us out slowly."

>Let that hang in the air a moment, before letting out a breath, and looking out the door to the camp beyond.
>"Do you really understand what i stand for?"
>"Do you really understand why i stood against Mother? why i struck down Yurei?"
>Turn back to her.
>"Freedom. Choice. Self Determination."
>"A god cannot support these, a god crushes them, snuffs them out."
>"A god sees all, and controls all. and that is not what i stand for, and ive already witnessed proof of that."
>"My empathetic field, it was invasive. Everything that I stood for, It stole those away from everyone around me."
>"No freedom, as they could hide nothing from me, and i could take anything they thought from them."
>"No Choice. for i could know everything about them, to bend and twist to my whims."
>"No Self Determination. how could there be, when i know everything about them to guide or force their path?"
>"I am no god Leyra. Nor shall i ever be one."
>"Because ive already given that up, and ill do it again... and bring down anyone else who tries."
>"If that is how you view me, if that is what you wish me to become..."
>"...then id prefer you not to follow me or what ive said at all."

(1/2)
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>>4255340
>>4255787
>Sigh, and reach out, take one of Leyra hands, and give her a kind, pleading look.
>"I stand firm by all ive said, all ive done... But Leyra... im no one special."
>"No more special than you, or anyone else out there... ive made my mistakes, ive fumbled, ive fallen."
>Chuckle, and look over to Uzu for a moment, giving her a smile, before turning back to Leyra.
>"I would be nothing without my Family, my Friends. nothing ive accomplished, ive done so alone. nothing ive learned to love or stand firm in, i could've learned without them."
>"Leyra, its not about me. or you. or my Family, my friends, or yours."
>Give her hand a slight squeeze.
>"Its about *Everyone*. its about learning from others, from putting your faith in others and growing with them. its about looking at them, and seeing how you can improve yourself, its about learning to trust *yourself* by being willing to let others touch your lives."
>sigh, and let your head hang low.
>"Please, dont put me on a pedestal. learn from me, from my family, but dont put your trust in us. not alone."
>Look back up to her."
>"Learn to put trust in yourself, in others. be someone they can learn from, look up to, and let them be that for you."
>"Dont put all your faith in one person, dont ignore what you can learn from me, by instead thinking im all there is to learn."
>Pull back, and give her a soft genuine smile.
>"You dont need me Leyra. you or the Vigilants. all you need is eachother, and that kind, hopeful spirit you touch others lives with. *that* is what you should trust, *that* is what you should put your faith in."
>"...Because its what i put mine in, whenever i see my family, or hear about wonderful people like yours, who give so much and help so many."

(2/2)
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>>4255787
>"A god named "Mother" who enforced her cruel law, and the god called the 'Crucible', whos grip still chokes us out slowly."

I hate to bug you again, but the section that is a follow up to
>"The world does not need gods, Leyra. to become a god is to stand against all i have fought for. Weren't we struggling to survive under the heels of another god? Arent we still?"

Feels awkward as the two lines feel like it was supposed to be a 3-part rhetorical question aimed at Leyra to answer, yet the punctuation completely throws off the tone.

the way I read it, feels like it would read better if it went like this:
>"The world does not need gods, Leyra. to become a god is to stand against all i have fought for. Weren't we struggling to survive under the heels of another god? Aren't we still struggling under one now?"
>"A god named "Mother" who enforced her cruel law, and the god called the 'Crucible', whos grip still chokes us out slowly?"
>>
>>4255803
and i still disagree with that extension. it makes that line too long and no longer roll off the tongue well at all, starts to become too much of a mouthful. its extra detail that really doesn't serve any purpose by what it adds.
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>>4255810
fair enough. It's getting late and I although I think we can still do more, I'm out of ideas at the moment and it's getting late.

>>4255340
Supporting this vote
>>4255791
>>4255787
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>>4255816
well you just repeated yourself a bit there Anon so i hope you're ok.
regardless, if you need sleep, take it, and i hope its deep and full of horrors slowly scraping at the edges of your visions. in a good way, of course.
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>>4255340
>>Write-In
>"I'm honored that you have so much faith in me, Leyra. It's not a small thing, to have someone consider you worthy of leading the world."
>"Still, I don't feel that I should. Maybe you're right, maybe climbing the Cord will change my perspective. But I doubt it."
>"It's not that I'm too humble for the position. I just don't think that's the best way I, or anyone for that matter, can help the world."
>"There's a matter of perspective and understanding involved. However you might sanctify me, I'm still just a person. My comprehension and wisdom are fundamentally limited. I can't tell what's best for everyone because I haven't lived their lives."
>"At the end of the day, people need to be able to decide their own future. I can advise, I can offer tools, but I can't make the choice for them. That would be self-defeating, it could only give them what I projected onto them, rather than what they need."
>"You talked about me loving the entire world, and I'd like to think that's true. But love shouldn't be one-sided. Love is best when it listens, when it treats the other party as an equal, with their own agency."
>"And it sounds to me like you have that love. You've been helping people to grow on their own terms, trusting them to find their own path. That's a wonderful thing. I think that's what the world needs. Not some god on high handing down mandates, but all of us working together to help each other find our paths."
Fell asleep, woke up, trying another go at this. I'm sure it will clash with what other people want to say, this is just my own. It's probably sub-optimal and might get her thinking in ways we don't want, but it feels more natural to me to try to phrase it in these firm but gentle ways. It's fine if none of this gets into the update, I just want to get something out there.
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>>4256069
>>4255340
Yeah not really a fan of this personally, and dont think they mesh well.
At the very least, voting against combining them for sure.
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>>4255340

You blink, granting yourself a few fleeting moments of clarity while you draw in a deep breath…

…and then, you speak.

"Leyra, I appreciate the trust you and the Vigilant have in me...but you dont seem to understand. For me to do that, for me to even *think* about wielding that power to rule...it would not just go against everything I believe in, everything I’ve said and stood for. It would *dismantle* it, it would crush it under heel. I would be a hypocrite, no better than Mother or any who came before her. My words, my morals - they would mean nothing, would disintegrate overnight."

Leyra’s burgeoning confusion is curbed when you catch her eyes, letting the full weight of what you’ve said and what’s yet to come settle upon the girl’s faithful mind.

"If I were to do that...then I would be no better than Mother herself. I would become another tyrannical god, that needs to be killed, brought down and destroyed by another Hunter of Gods, and rightfully so." You continue, raising a hand gently – but firmly – to silence the girl’s protest before it escapes her. "The world does not need gods, Leyra. To become a god is to stand against all I’ve fought for. Weren't we struggling to survive under the heels of another god? Aren’t we still? A god named ‘Mother’ who enforced her cruel law, and the god called the 'Crucible', whose grip still chokes us?"

Allowing your words to hang in the air for a moment, you let out a breath you didn’t even realize you were holding as you look out towards the cliffs, below which lie a ceaseless tide and a tireless throng.

"Do you really understand what I stand for, Leyra? Do you really understand why I stood against Mother? Why I struck down Yurei?"

You look back to her, the Vigiliants’ leader remaining silent as her wide eyes lock onto yours.

"Freedom. Choice. Self Determination." You supply. "A god cannot support these, Leyra. A god crushes them, snuffs them out. A god sees all, and controls all. And that is not what I stand for, and I’ve already witnessed proof of that…that’s why I gave up my empathic field. It was invasive. Everything that I stood for, it stole those away from those around me."

Shaking your head, you ensure that your tone leaves no ambiguity in just how serious you are in this moment.
"No freedom, because they couldn’t hide anything from me, and I could take anything they thought from them." You continue. “No Choice, no self-determination. How could there be, when I know everything about them to guide or force their path? I’ll say it once, and I’ll say it until the very end…I am no god, Leyra. Nor will I ever be one. I’ve already given that up, and I’ll do it again... and bring down anyone else who tries."

"If that’s how you view me, if that’s what you wish me to become...then I’d prefer you not to follow me or what I’ve said, at all."

(Continued)
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>>4256401

Leyra makes a small sound, almost like a whimper as a quartet of small, writhing humanoids emerge from between the folds of brain tissue. Their cartoonishly wide, eyeless sockets and ‘o’-shaped mouths are agape as they gently massage their creator’s scalp. With a sigh, you reach out and take one of Leyra’s hands in both of yours. She’s in a cold, stressed sweat that sticks to your hands, but you keep holding on as you give the girl a kind, pleading look.

"I stand firm by all I’ve said, all I’ve done.” You insist. “But Leyra...I’m no one special. No more special than you, or anyone else out there. I’ve made my mistakes, I’ve fumbled, I’ve fallen."

Glancing over to Uzu, you chuckle lightly as you give the Artisan a weak smile, one that she returns as you shift your focus back to Leyra.

"I would be nothing without my family, my friends. Nothing I’ve accomplished has been alone. Nothing I’ve learned to love or stand firm in was a thing that I could've learned without them. Leyra, it’s not about me. Or you. Or my Family, my friends, or even yours." You say, giving her clammy hand a light squeeze. "It’s about *everyone*. It’s about learning from others, putting your faith in them and growing alongside them. It’s about looking at them, and seeing how you can improve yourself, it’s about learning to trust yourself by being willing to let others touch your lives."

With a sigh, you hang your head. "Please, don’t put me on a pedestal. Learn from me and my family, but don’t put your trust in us. Not alone. Learn to put trust in yourself, in others. Be someone they can learn from, look up to, and let them be that for you. Don’t put all your faith in one person, don’t ignore what you can learn from me by thinking that my example is all there is to learn."

Pulling away from Leyra, you allow her to put her hand on her lap as you give the girl a soft, genuine smile.

"You don’t need me, Leyra. You or the Vigilants. All you need is each other, and that kind, hopeful spirit you touch others’ lives with. *That* is what you should trust, *that* is what you should put your faith in." You conclude. "...Because it’s what I put mine in. Whenever I see my family, or hear about wonderful people like yours, who give so much and help so many."

Leyra looks down at her hands for a long, contemplative moment before she folds them in her lap. And yet, when she finally speaks, it’s with an air of grace and poise.

“I…understand.” She says finally. “This is a…shift…but I respect your stance on the matter. Thank you for taking the time to be frank with me.”

Then, with hands clasped tightly; “How else may I be of service to you, Shu?”

>>Ask Leyra one or two other questions, just to make sure she’s okay with all this.

>>Go ahead and take that break of yours…goodness knows you’ve earned it.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next three hours. I do hope your day is going well, one and all.)
>>
>>4256403
>"I appreciate that, more than words could express."
>"...but how well do you think the rest of the Vigilants will? I still plan to address everyone, but knowing how they might take it could help with that."
>"And if you're up for it, id love for you to stand by me when i do... but no pressure. if you dont think you can agree to do so or could be better served elsewhere, then i understand. this cant be simple or easy on your end either, and i appreciate that."

hrm, was really expecting her to put up more of a fuss. no like, an angry stompy thing, but certainly have more to say. unsure if this is a very good or bad sign.

>>4256406
its going ok.
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>>4256403
>"Thank you Leyra"
>"One more thing I would like to ask. How well do you think the rest of the Vigilants will handle this? I still plan to address everyone regarding their willingness to lay down their lives when the time comes for me to siege the Cord, but knowing how they might take it could help with that."
>"And if you're up for it, id love for you to stand by me when i do... but no pressure. if you don't think you can agree to do so or could be better served elsewhere, then i understand. this cant be simple or easy on your end either, and i appreciate that."

>>4256418
We've definitely shattered her purview of us. That line where we told her that we won't tolerate any machinations to coerce Shu into Godhood was the line where the Leyra wanted to break down into tears from her faith being shattered. But the second half of the speech seemed like it softened the blow enough for her to recover her grace and poise.

The worrying sign is the tightness which she clasps her hands.

As someone who has gone through stressful talks, Let me tell you that squeezing your hands hard by clasping them is an instinctual coping mechanism on the vain thought that physical pain can dull the verbal wounds of a breaking speech.

It's a worrying sign in my eyes because she's either wanting to not talk any more or endure any more breaking speeches. Lord knows I've have many talks where I squirm and squeeze my limbs in a vain effort to block out my mother's talking points.

But the only way we'll know how she truly takes it is through her actions and how she addresses the vigilants afterwards.
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>>4256449
im not really for that second line of yours, as that kinda sounds misleading. we plan to talk about far more than just that one thing, so kinda feels like its trying to convince her by omitting the scope of what we plan to talk about to only mention that one thing, when in reality we plan to cover a pretty wide array of topics.

>That line where we told her that we won't tolerate any machinations to coerce Shu into Godhood was the line where the Leyra wanted to break down into tears from her faith being shattered.
huh? there was no line about that.

>The worrying sign is the tightness which she clasps her hands.
yeah, its hard to tell how much of that is something deeper, compared to her just trying to deal with the immediate blow. as you said, time will tell. hopefully she listened, over just thinking we're a lost cause, or equally bad, thinks we clearly need more to convince us.

also i do think its worth noting when she made the wimper. it wasn't at anything we said, nor even us saying we wouldn't be a god, and we would kill anyone who tried to be one. it was at us saying we would prefer her not to follow us if thats what she views and wants from us. it almost makes it seem like she would've been ok with accepting all of it so long as she could still at least think we were ok with her putting holiness on our shoulders at least on her side of things. though i suppose it makes sense. even us not wanting to be a god and threatening to kill anyone who tries to be become one, and certainly the rest of it, could still be made into some for of teachings and morality at least, but us outright saying we would perfer her not to follow or listen to us at all if she doesnt drop those caveats is probably alot harder to justify or mentally find a reach around for.

>>4256406
also, nice touch with the lil doll people. chuckled at the image of them needing to massage her brain-head to help her stay calm.
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>>4256469
(Yeah, she's a cutie. It's a Neuromancer/Hive Mistress Hybrid that she's got.)
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>>4256472
only you BHOP could think or make someone whos head is a brain with tentacles cute haha.

hopefully that stays all that needs to be said about her, instead of 'broken husk' or 'vengeful zealot' or something. but time will tell i suppose.
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>>4256403
Going to try my hand at this.

>"Thank you for listening, Leyra."
>"I'm sorry for being so blunt. But while I'll never take charge of anything in the new world, I'll always be open to offering advice and help to those who seek it.
>"How do you think the rest of the Vigilants would take it? I plan on addressing everyone about their willingness to assault the Cord for me, and I'd like to hear your opinion."
>"I'm here to set the record straight, not reprimand or discourage them. I'd love to have your help when I meet them all."
>>
>>4256449
>>4256553
i still heavily disagree with mentioning the Cord assault specifically, because there is a ton more we need to address to the cult as a whole, and she might be willing to stand with us on that but not other things, which would be unfair and misleading to her to trick her like that by making her think it would only be about one thing.
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>>4256558
Okay. I was padding anyway, so that part can be reworded or removed.
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>>4256560
probably can just be shortened to be a more general statement. theres alot to cover and i dont think she needs us to try and list all of it, aswell as we might not even know all of it ourselves. we could think up something new once we get to it afterall.
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>>4256449
>>4256403
Amending to say I'm abstaining from this vote.
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>>4256569
(Alright - are you saying that you do not wish for any part of your vote to be integrated into the final vote, should there be no 'supporting' votes for any other write-ins?)
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>>4256592
Aside from the "Thank you Leyra", the rest of my vote I would like to leave out.
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>>4256595
(Understood - thank you for letting me know.)
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>>4256553
oh,and if you do agree to or make changes, link them to BHOP, as his colorblindness can make him sometimes overlook things on accident at times.
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>>4256616
>>4256596
actually im not even sure you need to be colorblind to be confused a bit. i think literally every stable ID so far has been a shade of pink or close to it.
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>>4256620
>>4256616
(This entire Vein has been an exercise in pattern recognition, because this is absolutely silly as far as colors go.)
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>>4256403
Right, editing>>4256553

>"Thank you for listening, Leyra."
>"I'm sorry for being so blunt. But while I'll never take charge of anything in the new world, I'll always be open to offering advice and help to those who seek it.
>"How do you think the rest of the Vigilants would take it? I plan on addressing everyone later, and I'd like to hear your opinion."
>"I'm here to set the record straight, not reprimand or discourage them. I'd love to have your help when I meet them all."
>>
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>>4256621
sometimes you just cant catch a break, huh?
least some of us have been around awhile to becomes recognizable, i suppose.
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>>4256403
Supporting >>4256418


>>4256641
Quickly, let's all drastically change our writing patterns! I'm going to do it the lazy way and just poorly transcribe a Scottish brogue from now on. Ach yay, it be a fine booney quest BHOP hap rettin, ye.
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>>4256645
pfff, hah.
as much as the idea amuses me, id feel sorry for the poor bastard if he had to put up with that.

...also why haven't we run into more daughters with heavy accents like that? that was glorious Anon.
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>>4256658
Well, it's a general rule that you're not actually supposed to transcribe accents if the person's dialogue is meant to be comprehensible. Which means that in theory all the Daughters we've met have had heavyaccents and it just hasn't been mentioned. You are now imagining Rath with an adorable southern accent that flares up when she gets flustered.
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>>4256677
eh, i suppose i just disagree with that. i mean, my own writing is proof of that. plenty of accents need some relettering but still come off as readable, and it helps tremendously to get the point across and can help with characterization too.
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>>4256681
Well, like I said, general rule. There are of course exceptions, you're right that transcribing an accent can be used for good characterization purposes. It's just the convention that you don't. My point was that the characters easily could have accents and it's just not showing up in written form. Like my example, Rath is from somewhere in the Bible Belt so it's likely she does have a southern accent.
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>>4256403

"Thank you for listening, Leyra. I appreciate that more than words could express. I'm sorry for being so blunt, but while I'll never take charge of anything in the new world, I'll always be open to offering advice and help to those who seek it." You say earnestly, before reluctantly adding; "So...how well do you think the rest of the Vigilants will take what I have to say? I still plan to address everyone, but knowing how they might take it could help with that."

Extending her index fingers, she taps the two of them against each other thoughtfully and ponders your question for a moment, before answering with some hesitation.

"I think it will be...well-received, for the most part. There will of course be some present that may not be as willing to receive your message as most, but I can do what I can to help sway them afterwards...if it would please you, of course."

"To be clear, I'm here to set the record straight, not reprimand or discourage them. So if you're up for it, I'd love for you to stand by me when I address everyone, actually...but no pressure." You quickly add when Leyra seems startled. "If you don't think you can agree to do so or could be better served elsewhere, then I understand. This can't be simple or easy on your end either, and I appreciate that."

"It...it would be a true honor. A-are you quite certain?" She asks, not quite believing what she's hearing.

"If you're willing, then absolutely." You affirm, watching her clench her hands, this time in obvious excitement.

"I...I would like some time to gather my thoughts, i-if I may?" Leyra requests, about to rise from her seat before she hesitates, waiting for you to make the first move. You stand, offering the girl your hand as you do so.

"Take your time. It'll be a little while before I talk to everyone...and I'll say it again, Leyra - thank you for hearing me out."

She bows at the same time you go for a hug, and after a second or two of awkward shuffling the two of you manage a quick, furtive hug that prompts a chuckle out of Uzu. Leyra bows once again before she makes her exit, leaving you and Uzu once again by your lonesome.

"Well, at least that went better than the last one." You companion comments, turning to you when you make a sound of suspicion.

"I hope it did, at least." Comes your reply as you stretch, hearing your spine pop at the same time your hive echoes with the sound, and it's then that you resolve to never, ever do that again if you can help it. Well, you've successfully had your one-on-one conversations with the who's-who among the cult you plan to address...now the only question is whether or not to ride this conversational wave to its natural conclusion.

An impassioned speech, delivered straight to a minefield.

>>...You'll rest when this is done. It's time to speak to them, once Leyra's had a little while to gather herself.

>>Go ahead and take a breather of your own before you address the crowd.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, given this accursed headache that I've been unable to shake, I shall be pausing here for the weekend. Also, to clarify - if you choose to address the cult now, you're welcome to also vote with your version of the speech, since you'll have more than enough time to tinker with it, but I also understand if you'd like for Shu to rest before the big event. In any case, voting shall close this Sunday at 5:00PM Eastern time, with posting to resume on Monday at 2:00PM. I wish everyone a restful weekend, and I'll of course be keeping an eye on the Vein in case anyone has any queries, theories, or general meme-ery to contribute. Thank you all for your patience and participation, and take care, one and all.)
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>>4256688
>Go ahead and take a breather of your own before you address the crowd. All of hem will need time to collect their thoughts and prepare aswell anyways.
>Sigh, and flop down next to Uzu.
>"...how the hell did you give all those little sermons and such back at the Monastery daily Uzu, or were you just lucky enough to never have any questions to answer or records to straighten?"
>Lean into her to use as a pillow as you listen to her, letting your mind wander as it needs to.

>"Be honest Uzu, how did i do? what are your thoughts on what i said, what im doing, and all this in general?"
>Chuckle, and look up at her with a smile.
>"You know the drill, be honest and all that."
>>
>>4256685
yeah thats fair, and i get what you mean.
i suppose im used and alot of authors will still give hints if a character has a strong enough accent, even if its just 'she said with X accent' or something plain like that.

>>4256693
sorry to hear that, and hope you get to feeling better. please, get some rest and enjoy your weekend, you've earned it and it sounds like you could use it. heckle the wife as entertainment or something til she hits you with a spoon if you have to.

thanks for running, its been interesting, and overall enjoyable even despite the slight hiccup.
honestly, if you had just rolled with what we have had, how bad would it have gone? would it have disrupted the whole plan, or more of just us losing face with Alecto and maybe her closer supporters?

also, if you dont mind, id love to hear how the system is coming along- both of these when you're feeling better of course, no pressure... to respond to this. clearly theres some in your head.
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>>4256693
Sorry to hear you've got a headache, BHOP. Take some painkillers and get some rest, we all want you feeling well.

Anyways, thanks for running, it's been a...wild ride, this vein. Gonna be honest, the entire thing is giving me some low-level anxiety because it's such a fraught situation, but I think that's a good thing in this context. Means you're making this feel like it has important stakes. So keep it up, and I'll see you on Monday.

>>4256699
>"...how the hell did you give all those little sermons and such back at the Monastery daily Uzu, or were you just lucky enough to never have any questions to answer or records to straighten?"
I mean, we know how she did it, the answer is "poorly, with rapidly accumulating stress that had horrible consequences". Maybe we shouldn't ask the person who ate her last religious congregation how to manage one.
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>>4256688
also gah, this girls complicated.
she actually seems to still respect us greatly, but i still cant tell if its for the right reasons or way, and if its a good or bad thing.

BHOP is oddly right though, somehow the idea of a girl with a large brain for a head fidgeting with excitement and acting all flusters is a cute image, and im worried as to why i think that.

>>4256725
well, no. or well, sorta?
you have to remember she was always a prominent member and was doing that sorta thing long before she was in charge, which is what im asking about. her leading the sermons and meditation session wasn't her issue, it was only once she was fully in charge that whatever that extra weight entailed got to her.

which, actually, from how it was described it really didnt sound like much changed. Elder Uzu already seemed to sit in the background in her little room most if not all the time. i guess even if it wasn't her usually doing things out in the open or running the place per say, she was still making enough decision behind the scenes to take the burden off others?
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>>4256688
>Go ahead and take a breather of your own before you address the crowd.
>Terraform the chair into giant couch recliner an just flop back into the chair and let your muscles completely relax. let Uzu get in on the couch action.
>A cat-sized Fuzzbuzz wiggles out of your back and curls up on your lap.
>Heave out that giant sigh of mental exhaustion.
>"I think I now know why Rath hated church. Not only on the receiving end, but on the giving end of the sermon of speeches as well. Having to deal with a cult who have a skewed perception of the philosophies you espouse and wanting you to notice your worship is just tiring. And this was just my first visit."

>"How were you able to last that long with the sermon giving Uzu?"
>"I'll be honest with you Uzu, all those speeches that I've been shouting, even though I've got a way with words, it feels like I've been flying by the seat of my panties."
>"So much so that sometimes I feel like it's so alien of me."
>"I'm just thinking, how the bloody hell did I manage to say all of that so eloquently? Did I even take classes on public speaking in high school?"
>just heave a giant sigh again.
>"Sorry about that Uzu."
>nervous chuckle.
>"So...how did I do on everything that happened since we came here?"

>>4256705
Well then. Looks like we'll have plenty of time to do prepare some drafts for speech writing.

Have a pic of what appears to be a daughter lounging in a jaw. I've put it under spoilers just in case. You'll see why.
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>>4256738
not gonna lie, i do my best writing in the moment, over preparing ahead of time. might just be something to do with the format though. just dont like trying to guess or make things ambiguous enough to slot into 'what-ifs' or such later. how BHOP presents the speech scene and allows us to set it up in the moment is little details i suppose that i think matters and helps get my brain flowing into the scenario, over trying to preemptively write something detailed out and then have to hope or edit it later to fit any tonal or scenario shifts that may be introduced.

nice picture though. i see why you did, though technically the spoiler was unnecessary.
ive got a few i need to outright edit a bit before i can post them, but the art and design is otherwise too good to not.
heres a very slightly dubious but still WS one in return though.
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>>4256754
True.

Chapter 7 update:

Never before have I had to flip through my image folder for this quest so much just to find the right image for the daughters I will be posting for the initial scene of chapter 7. I think Chapter 7 may need to be split into multiple parts due to the sheer amount of detail that I'm writing in. The setup itself it eating up a lot of pages due to the pictures that I'm also posting onto the document as well.
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>>4256818
sounds interesting, if nothing else. glad you seem to be making some form of progress, just hope it doesn't balloon out of your control though.
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>>4256818
Oh, that bodes interesting. Sounds like there are going to be some really neat aesthetic concepts going into this, I look forward to it.
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>>4256705
(Glad you've found it interesting, truly.)

(As far as the roll goes, then it would have just been losing face with Alecto, and the repercussions of that.)

(THe system is coming along fairly well - I've hit a bit of a timing snag where the time I assumed I'd have open over the weekend has been stymied by suddenly having to help a friend move. No knock on her - she's in a crummy situation, and we're happy to help.)

>>4256818
(Ha, I hope it all goes swimmingly. Also, I know the feeling of perusing one's folder to find the perfect image. I have so, so many images for Daughters you've yet to meet.)
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>>4257136
well, im not gonna say im glad that would've been the result with Alecto... but still could've been a worse outcome there.

and hey, if you're busy for reason like that, then all the more power to you. wish her the best, im sure things will turn around for her. oh, while you've reminded me, dont think we ever heard if your artist friend was up for sharing some of her art, though like we said no big deal if she isnt.
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>>4257147
(Her Youtube channel's actually taken off like a bullet, so I haven't gotten the chance to ask her considering she's cranking out a full AMV a week. I'll be asking her soon, though.)
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>>4257136
>(Ha, I hope it all goes swimmingly. Also, I know the feeling of perusing one's folder to find the perfect image. I have so, so many images for Daughters you've yet to meet.)

I just hope the images I chose don't overlap with the ones that you've picked or planned for future sessions.

>>4257147
if I'm reading this right, you're our initial failure basically made us lose face with Alecto and the Furies, but Bhop's use of our other write-ins basically salvaged the situation where they're willing to give us a second chance?

>>4257159
gib sauce on that channel.
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>>4257159
oh, well glad to hear shes doing superb.
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>>4257163
>if I'm reading this right, you're our initial failure basically made us lose face with Alecto and the Furies, but Bhop's use of our other write-ins basically salvaged the situation where they're willing to give us a second chance?
something like that. knowing BHOP it probably would be more complex than that to some degree, but yeah. not sure it was a 'second-chance' though over a chance in the first place, considering how she was reacting and talking to us.
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>>4257170
>considering how she was reacting and talking to us post anger-trigger.
I'm having a hunch that it's going to sting lots since it seemed like it's consolidated her view of disappointment in Shu, and will at least consider Shu's advice but not necessarily follow up on it.
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>>4257163
(Ha, I'll ask her if she's up for sharing. She's a private person by nature, even despite her burgeoning fame, so I want to respect her wishes first and foremost.)
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>>4257178
>post anger-trigger
no, in general from the start. the only time she at all wasn't dismissive of us and trying to just find and excuse to leave was when BHOP made the choice on what to keep. before and after us actually upsetting her she wasnt at all listening or showing signs of wanting to.

>will at least consider Shu's advice but not necessarily follow up on it.
well, we'll see at the speech i suppose. or well, something like that. we certainly will need to keep an eye on that, because letting that go goes beyond just her and into actual issues with what she is doing to people is the biggest problem.

>>4257183
understandable. and id also fully understand if its about her not wanting to piggyback off you or the quests popularity, though im sure shes more than capable on impressing us on her own anyways.
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>>4257189
(Ha, well, with over fifty thousand views on her latest video, the only one piggy-backing would be me, if anything. Then again, aside from an appreciation for body horror and the variability of the human form, our respective fandoms likely wouldn't have much overlap.)

(I could be wrong, though...)
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>>4257328
damn you and your continuous piquing of my curiosity.
heres the nastiest picture ive yet to post as punishment, over one of the less nurgly ones.
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>>4257354
(Punishment?)

(That's one of my favorites in my collection.)
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>>4257363
well, it was a joke, but certainly didn't expect it to be one of your favorites.
to each their own.
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>>4257376
(Also, I've seen a lot of scattered works by this artist, and as far as the overall 'feel' of the Quest, I'd say they nail it.)
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>>4257380
oh yeah, they're great. always lovely when i see them post something new.
problem is they fit so well i feel compelled to post their stuff over other stuff, which doesn't help the backlog at all.

also, very random, nonsensical, and unuseful question, but it popped into my head;
has Amara taught Fuzzbuzz any tricks? if so, how does she incentivize him to learn?
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>>4257394
(She's actually been teaching him a little bit of sword fighting, since the Joyous are basically human and she uses him to practice against fighting a more mobile opponent.)

(And at this point in the Guardian Heart's evolution, teaching him is very easy, so he's picked up a few 'tricks' of his own.)

(Also, ten thousand cool-points for posting body-horror Kamen Rider.)
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>>4257404
oh, well not the type of tricks i was talking about but still pretty cool all the same. i was expecting more cute tricks, over awesome and useful tricks, but im glad to see her being serious in her off-time too.

and dammit, thats too many points BHOP. im spreading them evenly throughout the people here instead, to keep my level manageable.
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>>4257416
> i was expecting more cute tricks, over awesome and useful tricks
I mean,a giant fluffy bee being the practice partner for a little girl's swordfighting is pretty cute on its own.

I get what you mean, though. More pet-style tricks would be cute. Although, between the Guardian's Heart and Thousand's Matron (Sir FuzzBuzz should be getting some bonuses from that by now), he's probably smart enough that he doesn't actually need to be taught tricks. A dog needs training to roll over on command, you can just ask Sir FuzzBuzz to do it.
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>>4257606
>>4257404
I eagerly await the day Sir Fuzzbuzz grows old enough and is granted enough augmentations for him to actually speak and talk. Gain sentience like Carter's many spider friends.
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>>4258157
Actually, wait, I just realized something. Amara's a Skintalker. She can already understand Sir FuzzBuzz, can't she? He might not have the most complicated dialogue since he's only so smart, but she should be able to hear him express his happiness and love for her. Oh, that's adorable.
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>>4258214
im not sure. mind you, im ok with the idea, only we really dont know how far her innate fleshscape communication goes, only id imagine it does have a limit. depends on what Fuzzbuzz counts as talking in? Bee, Construct, Amalgam, or general Flesh-talk? or worse, some horrible mixed language of some of those.

oh god, Fuzzbuzz has an accent, and not an understandable one, doesn't he?
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>>4259108
>Fuzzbuzz speaks with a butler's syntax al la Alfred from Batman.
>witty one-liners included.
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Amid all this high-minded talk about allowing people to make their choices, I feel I should point out that while Shu wants people to have the ability to make choices, she also doesn't want people to be able to carry out certain choices once they've been made. Killing others without sufficient cause, mainly. And yes, it's damn hard to fairly judge what constitutes sufficient cause, but you can solve that by making the requirements for keeping people dead exaggeratedly demanding. Overwhelmingly demanding. Like, you had to bomb an elementary school with all the children still inside. That way you're still bringing back everyone who had a sliver of hope of reforming, but the Idi Amins, the John Wayne Gacys of the world are gone. A lot of people would be disappointed that you'd be bringing back people who'd go right back to their old ways, but at least you'd get the worst of the worst.

This is all assuming that being selective about who you bring back is even possible from a practical, in-world perspective. Still vague on how shit works out once you gain control of the cord. Like, can you just run some queries in the bio-database and how fast does that get processed and how?

Food for thought.
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>>4259219
It's a good question to mull upon.
But there's also another thing that's been somewhat hinted at by Charon amidst all of this: Despite the Crucible wiping the world populace clean, the people who are dead aren't dead-dead. Take Isabelle for example. When we initially killed her, we thought keeping her in her personal soulgem would be the end of it and that Isabelle would stay asleep in a dreamless sleep. But instead we found out that not only Isabelle was not actually "dead", she was still awake and conscious the entire time despite being stuck as a meguca rock. Furthermore, Charon took that example and told us that the entire world populace has a semblance of awareness as to what's going on in the crucible. So yeah. The dead aren't dead. The dead are stuck in a dreamscape limbo waiting and watching for the entire game of body horror battle royale to completely finish. And they've been watching for 2+ years.

We need to consider how humanity would perceive the survivors of the Crucible post-endgame.
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>>4259219
but we dont want to stop those people from having the choice to do that, no matter how horrible it is. we merely ourselves have the choice to put our lives on the line to stop them if we see them attempting it, or to punish them for committing the act.

trying to prevent a bad thing from happening is still quite different than not letting them attempt to do it at all.
and it just wraps back around to the idea that its just not something you can really justify doing, when it comes to who comes back. mind you, we dont know how fast or in-depth the process could even be like you said, but just to give out the point, what if the person who bombed the school was forced to, via a threat to a loved one or something else horrendous? in that case, a person who might be redeemed but has alot of bad blood on their hands gets shafted, while the person with clean hands (in terms of direct blood at least) who forced them to do it but may not change their ways does come back. not only does it bring into question just what we even could use to justify the decision, but whether either or neither should come back.

you would be surprised how divisive even a minor slight could be in what should be done about it, and how complicated even some seemingly straight forward sins could actually be. it just would be a bad path to take deciding stuff like that, over just getting the world back in general, even if you just wanted to argue abacus of the scope of the Crucible.

also, i dont know why, but i just imagined Shu being a grumpy farmer afterwards who keeps getting pissed off because every other week someone visits just to try and get her to make insanely important decisions for their group/settlements.
>"I just want to grow my all-seeing eye potatoes in peace r e e e."
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>>4259231
to be fair, we dont know how far that extends. Isabelle only saw and heard things around her gem. we dont know if the Cord constricts, expand, or keeps their range similar.

god i hope its not only in or around the Cord though. that would be two years of constant alien nightmares and bloodshed. im not even sure the psychopaths would be ok with that.
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>>4259242
I think there could be a few tropes at play here.

Mainly being: Bored with Insanity, everyone has standards, and numb from the revelation. Alien nightmares aside, the mind can grow resilient and adaptive once they detect a pattern. 2+years to grow accustomed to the rhythm of madness and death. The Crucible has a day-night cycle, cicadian rhythms are still a thing surprisingly. Amalgams still have natural behavior akin to the animals they are base on. Skintalkers can converse with the amalgamated and the planet itself.
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>>4259253
true, but again it depends on alot of things. for one, the inside of the cord is supposed to be very alien, and might not be that sorta stable compared to what we see outside, even despite the layer system.

we'll find out one day though i suppose. honestly figuring out if we can do a bit more research on the Cords inner workings wouldn't be a bad idea though... considering even getting the info directly can fry your brain id not be surprised if theres a very good reason we havent gotten too much more indepth details on what we may be able to do once where we need to be in there.
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>>4259253
I think the biggest issue would be whether the minds inside the Cord can contact each other. The human mind is designed for social interaction, people go insane in complete isolation. There are several humanitarian groups that want to get solitary confinement classified as a form of torture, it can be that bad. If people can interact with each other still, they might be able to adapt to the bizarre conditions of their dead-yet-dreaming state. If everyone is solitary, then I think it's going to be much harder to cope with it.
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>>4259291
>>4259283
I hope the cord system is designed for interactivity. Otherwise what is the point for all of those assimilated/amalgamated beings and daughters or even dreamscape shenanigans for that matter?

I remember reading an article where a child had no interaction with other people from birth until she was 6 years old. for 6 straight years, she was a blank slate that acted on instinct. I don't know how long it took to habilitate her, but I remember reading that it took a fucking long time for her to learn. And even then, her cognition and development was stunted from the isolation.
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>>4259291
well, Isabelles was isolated, though that was her choice technically. but Charon still did conflate the cord folk to her, and even the Relic Gem Daughters require caveats to interact with others.

>>4259299
well, the dreamscape stuff is actually for the still living daughters who assimilated them, not for the dream daughters. so following that logic it would make sense, or at least not be surprising, if the Cord folks didn't have inter-connectivity, as there no reason to give them that. inter-daughter Dreamscape sharing isnt the standard afterall.
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>>4259299
Feral children, yeah. They happen sometimes, a kid gets lost in the wilderness and doesn't have any interaction during their early developmental period. God, I hope that people in the Cord are either in suspended state or can contact each other, or else all the children absorbed into the Cord are going to have some severe issues.
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>>4259233
Guy, when people do certain things or attempt to do certain things, you don't give them a second chance, you just kill them. Because it has to be understood that nobody can get away with it for any reason, that there is no adequate justification for these things because they are intrinsically, powerfully evil. Genocide, a la Idi Amin, or torturing and skinning dozens of children, a la John Wayne Gacy. I wasn't talking about edge cases and that's damned obvious, I even went *out of my way* to specify that you'd make the requirements for true death *exaggeratedly demanding*. Ugh, this is why I don't participate in quests much. Those people already made their choices, they already wrought their horrors, and Shu can't unkill their victims because they were already dead before the Crucible happened. They need to stay dead and have their data purged.
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>>4259504
well, you're wrong, but this is basically a conversation ive already had, and you've clearly made it obvious you didnt want, are not up for, and were never looking for, any actual discussion on the topic.

if this is your reaction, dont bring it up in the first place.
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>>4259504
We've already had that conversation anon. We've had that conversation with Dorian about the merits of resurrecting the scum of the earth, we've touched upon the subject of Utopia with Yurei, and we've talked about delivering justices to the scum of the earth with the Furies. Initially the Furies were all for not wanting the worst of the worst to be resurrected, but they've opted to hunt them down because they know about who they are and they have body horror powers to deliver justice.

All three of those ideas you could have voiced your opinions if you had felt like it and we would have been happy to discuss in a formative argument.

I don't know if you actually participated during those opportunities, but it is clear that those opportunities have passed and we have already progressed to this point during the quest.

It was on you to speak up and now you're simply complaining about things.

If you want to be invested in the quest and make your opinions and arguments heard, then please actually participate during voting times instead of passively reading the quest and complaining.
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>>4259504
If you really want the requirements for true-death in a post-crucible world viable, then tell us:
>What is the bare minimum threshold that necessitates their execution?
>What is your proposal to solving that problem? Prevention or mitigation?
>What kind of Justice are you aiming for? Proactive or Reactive?
>What about redemption? How do you weigh the scale of suffering?
>What about the accused person's world view? Their mindset? their history? How do you weigh that?

Tell us.
The examples you provided us with historical figures is not enough. those are just examples. What about modern day? Are you willing to wipe out the entire governing body of China and those politically affiliated with the Government? Because in current events, the entire government is basically a giant dictatorship. Do you assassinate Kim Jong Un and leave him for dead? Do you also leave North Korea's ruling government dead? Do you let the citizens of North Korea or China without government or order?

Tell us. Give us your reasoning. How would you justify the consequences through your opinions that come from the consequences of the choice you're advocating for?

Tell us.

If you're not telling us, and you're not actively debating this, and you're simply posting that rant/argument for the sake of either provoking our thoughts to consider the following and convince us to bend to your opinion, then try harder. Otherwise it just feels like a post where you're simply complaining about the quest.

Like that one anon who checks in to see if Shu's kicked the bucket.
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>>4259561
for once, learn from my and the other anons mistakes and save your fingers the effort.
theres more bad faith and hostility in that one response than the entire conversation earlier had in its whole course.

also, bees.
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>>4259567
Point taken.
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>>4259567
I wonder what happened to that Mardarina girl we fought at Laoc, the one with the wasps? She wasn't in our consumption menu, so she must have had friends or family in Laoc who took her mindstate in. I hope they're doing okay.
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>>4259595
yeah, curious on that too.
bet there alot of iffy stories like that going on there, but glad they're recovering like Julia said.
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>>4259542
I mean, not everyone has the chance to participate when it's running.

Besides he raises some good points about some glaring holes in Shu's general approach to things. If it's already been discussed and had good legitimate conclusions made about it then you should be able to refute him point by point in a concise manner.

Instead there's a camp that keeps suggesting there are no unforgivable sins, when there clearly are. Or at the very least there are sins which are bad enough that it's an injustice to the victims to allow the perpetrators even a chance at redemption (i.e. Alecto and the Furies).

>>4259561
Let's go ahead and take up real-world examples then. Let's presume for the sake of argument that once we reach the top of the cord we have essentially the powers of god and can do anything we want within the context of our planet.

There are, for the sake of argument, any number of North Korean citizens that wish for the overthrow of the government and the establishment of something else. These citizens are held in check by the regime through force.

There are also any number of North Korean citizens who benefit from the current regime and existing system, wish it to remain as-is, and given the chance will defend the system against opposition using force.

Now I don't quite get what your line of argument or reasoning is, so let me posit this: if we get to the top of the Cord and restore the world as it was we are tacitly endorsing the North Korean regime, and it will continue to oppress the people as it always has. We have effectively wronged everyone who lives under the regime's bootheel and wants out, because we had the ability to extricate them from their situation and didn't.

I might be misunderstanding, but the above is what you're advocating for right (I mean tacitly if not explicitly)? I'd like to know the underpinning principles of why you find that acceptable?
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>>4260491
First off, thank you for picking up the baton.

As for your response to your preposition. My question was more in lieu of trying to provoke some more discussion.

Given that you've obliged, I'll be happy to discuss with you. But first as a disclaimer, I would like to say that I do not like the North Korean Regime nor that of the Chinese Communist Party. Both of those governments have glaring flaws in their system whose political ambitions make me rankle at the extreme methods they use to resort to maintaining their grip on power, and would prefer for both of their government systems to simply be completely removed and rebuilt from scratch.

But I'll humor you so we can discuss the holes in Shu's general approach and philosophy in regards to our plans for a post-Crucible Earth. Yes, that anon has several good points in regards to the moral merits of not resurrecting people whose crimes are so heinous that they are better off dead.

Let me argue for returning to the status quo. Lets say we've decided when we put our asses on the chair of god, that the actions of North Korea and Communist China are so heinous that all the government personnel from both countries are excluded from Resurrection. The moment the world goes back to order with the exception of those people, their absence has created a massive power vacuum in the overall order of society in those two countries, while the surrounding international countries around the globe will immediately take notice the moment they regain their bearings. Yes, we've kept the truly vile dead, but in their absence we've created a vacuum for others like them to exploit the void and use newly forming status quo of old world technology and Crucible Forge Technology to gain a political advantage. The truly ambitious might exploit both and become another tyrant. An even worse version of North Korea or China by exploiting Neuromancy, Phantasmal Conduits, Skintalkers, and Forge technology to make a dictatorship with an iron grip so tight that almost nothing can break it down barring complete genocide/annihilation or the Cord itself.

1/2
>>
Now lets say such an ambitious warmonger rises to power in the wake of the chaos created from the vacuum, and has grown so powerful that almost nothing save for the power of the Cord can defeat him/her. How else are we to stop them except use the Cord's power to ctrl alt delete the tyrant? That would go against what Shu has recently sworn. She does not want to take up the mantle of godhood. She only wanted to use it to free the planet of the Crucible so that the world doesn't die from a guaranteed timer.

Now lets say I'm for returning to the status quo and bring everyone back. What then? We'll get back the same old criminals, the same old tyrants, the same old oppressive regime so brutal that for the sake of the supermajority of human civilization they need to be put down. But in this case, we all know about them. We know who they are, a majority of them will likely be confused by the new change in environment and will be scrambling to figure out why there are women who have eldritch powers that are demigod level or borderline god level. You won't have the chaos of tyrants or heinous Criminals take advantage of the power vacuum if we decide the Chinese Communist Party or the North Korean Government should stay dead.

I guess the underlying principle to my argument is that it's a case of "Better the Devil you know." We'll have the same old world but now we have an added element of Crucible Survivors, Forge Technology, any remaining Amalgams still alive, and people with relatively little or no body horror power system. We won't have to deal with the chaos that comes from regime change or a political power vacuum that comes from war in the immediate aftermath of the Crucible ending.

Now lets say we go with your proposal of keeping the vile and tyrannical dead. Exclude them from the world-wide resurrection. How would the world immediately benefit besides their absence? How would the world cope with the mess that those heinous men or women leave behind? Who would pick up the pieces? How would it help ease Shu's mind in the idea that she won't have to deal with additional leadership roles?

Would it ease Shu's mind that she just excluded people outright as an action of hypocrisy that despite championing for resurrecting everyone, she excluded out a group of people? How would it help ease her burden? How would it help convince people that she isn't a god? The moment people notice the absence of certain people, they will be asking questions, and eventually the trail will lead right back to Shu. People all over the world will be asking why she did not resurrect so and so or certain groups of people. People will put two and two together and now think of her as a god because of the feat that she had pulled. Resurrecting humanity is one thing, but being able to selectively choose who receives redemption and who stays dead speaks volumes about the amount of control over the power of the Cord Shu is capable of.
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>>4260552
>>4260541
>>4260491
Linking these to you.
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>>4260557
-Would it ease Shu's mind that she just excluded people outright as an action of hypocrisy that despite championing for resurrecting everyone, she excluded out a group of people? How would it help ease her burden? How would it help convince people that she isn't a god? The moment people notice the absence of certain people, they will be asking questions, and eventually the trail will lead right back to Shu. People all over the world will be asking why she did not resurrect so and so or certain groups of people. People will put two and two together and now think of her as a god because of the feat that she had pulled. Resurrecting humanity is one thing, but being able to selectively choose who receives redemption and who stays dead speaks volumes about the amount of control over the power of the Cord Shu is capable of.
This is beside the point, as we're trying to piece together a cohesive philosophical framework here right now (right?). While we're on the subject of Shu and things she would/wouldn't want and would/wouldn't do, this post brings up some excellent examples of why I find your arguments so confusing. Allow me to list a couple that occur to me off the top of me head after reading your rebuttal.

>Part of your argument is rooted fundamentally in a practical view of things.
-I guess the underlying principle to my argument is that it's a case of "Better the Devil you know."
-You won't have the chaos of tyrants or heinous Criminals take advantage of the power vacuum if we decide the Chinese Communist Party or the North Korean Government should stay dead.
You argue that we shouldn't eliminate criminals/evil/what-have-you on the basis of /practicality/ because it will lead to power vacuums and turmoil. This is damned confusing to me because Shu does not espouse ethics based on practicality. Numerous choices have been frankly irrational and harmful to herself and/or her cause but were undertaken due to principles. Why would practicality factor into this argument when it didn't into others?

>Another part of your argument is based on "what if"
-Lets say we've decided when we put our asses on the chair of god, that the actions of North Korea and Communist China...
- The truly ambitious might exploit both and become another tyrant. An even worse version of North Korea or China...
Which is a line of argument which Shu has STEADFASTLY REFUSED on multiple occasions, off the top of my head: stopping Magpie culling settlements to prevent another Spiraling Fear, stopping Magpie killing Uzu to prevent the Spiraling Fear. So again, I ask why does this line of argument factor into this decision to remake the world when we've refused to indulge in it at other times?
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>>4260491
>Instead there's a camp that keeps suggesting there are no unforgivable sins, when there clearly are.
no one has said that or stood by that as a reason, that has not at all been a cornerstone of why we think Shu shouldn't do any of that at all.

>If it's already been discussed and had good legitimate conclusions made about it then you should be able to refute him point by point in a concise manner.
my discouragement of responding to him and my own unwant to continue the conversation had nothing to do with the points he said, but the general tone and attitude about how he responded, which for all my faults, was as i said already significantly more hostile than conversations people had already had problems with. theres a limit before its simply not worth continuing the conversation with someone, regardless of their points, and certainly if the conversation earlier was one, then that comment was it by a significantly higher margin.
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>>4260541
>>4260599
i think a problem here is, you are both trying to make or find a way for Shu to have 'perfect Morals'.

thats impossible, and will never happen, both because the idea is impossible, and because people are not perfect, and Shu both is supposed to be a person, and is played by people. i dont mean that as a copout, but its probably gonna feel like one, but the simple fact is, Morality and Ethics are complicated, overlapping, and are built off and have to interact with, opinions.

best example is the main point being brought up, or at least this is a good example i think;
>There is a good argument for not being a god.
>There is a good argument for not bringing some people back.

the problem?
>Not bringing people back is acting like a god.

its as simple as that. i mean, its not, but i hope you get what i mean. at some point it boils down to, which is the greater sin you personally feel should not be committed or could cause more harm in the long run, and we simply have decided Shu has said Godhood would be.
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>>4260662
>>4260599
>>4260557
which my point by the way is less you have to agree with that, and more we have Given Shu two parts of Morality;
>Stop bad people
>Dont be a God
which at times do not fit well together, and at times will never fit well together, is all im saying, aswell as saying you will never find a way for them to perfectly fit together but honestly thats ok because thats kinda just how things are, and because arguably both have their merit and reasons for being chosen.
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>>4260599
You have a point in your post.
>>4260642
I would have to say the reason why my argument is confusing you immensely is because I'm arguing from the wrong perspective with the wrong thesis and the wrong stance.

I'm not that well in-tune with Shu's philosophical framework as well as the other stubborn anon.

/rant
That and the fact that I personally feel that I can't make a verbal argument for jack shit when it comes to philosophical arguments because so many times I try to cut in I either get ignored, shouted over, or verbally told to shut up. And when I do, I find myself unable to put up a compelling argument that makes the other side give pause. It's stuff like this that frustrates me frequently and arguments often behave like shouting matches where the one who gets the last laugh/point is declared the winner.

fucking hell this is why I hate arguing with stubborn jackasses especially when it comes to opinionated arguments. People who simply shout over people with the argument of: "I'm right, you're wrong, suck a dick" are why I get angry.

/end rant.

I'm sorry. Lets go back from the top. Shu's high minded philosophy when it comes to choice and second chances in the face of the tyrants and heinous of pre-crucible humanity. Who to resurrect, who to not resurrect, what to deal with those who refuse to change their stubborn ways, and the original question of "What's the threshold for keeping people dead. and who's eligible for resurrection?"

To properly answer >>4259504's point, I can't say that I disagree with him. It feels like Shu's philosophical framework was very idealistic and optimistic when she was born, but each subsequent betrayal she's experienced it's been getting harder and harder for her to give out second chances the longer she's alive in the Crucible. I'd have to say that it feels like there's a parallel between Shu and Mara. Both daughters came out optimistic and idealistic but as time passes, they slowly become more and more jaded. Things may change with Shu as we progress further into the Quest.

I can't say that our high minded approach is a good one, it's clearly has glaring flaws as much of our speeches have been very idealistic in tone.

It's a good food for thought as to what to do with them and how to deal with them. And whether or not we decide to exclude them when we resurrect humanity. But with the fact that resurrection is possible through the body horror system, it really brings up the topic of the problematic idea of changing death from "permadeath is absolute, gg no re." to "death isn't permanent, and can now be thwarted at a hideously huge price".

>>4260667
>>4260662
And goddammit. All of that time spent typing away and you come out with a simple and concise statement like this.

It does put up a question when it comes to the God-creating aspect of the Crucible. Why all of this to make a god-like being only for all of that to go to waste in the next cycle?
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>>4260662
>i think a problem here is, you are both trying to make or find a way for Shu to have 'perfect Morals'.
Negative. I'm just trying to figure out if there is logical consistency across all of Shu's actions, which is something that normal people can and do keep in mind all the time. If so, what is the underlying logic?

>>4260667
>Dont be a God
This is actually a totally valid and plausible explanation in my book. Viewed through this lens Shu's actions make sense, however:
>Stop bad people
Throws a wrench in the works. We already use our powers to stop folks that we know are about to do bad things, or have done bad things from existing and/or doing those bad things.

At the point we attain the cord our power to exercise this aspect grows. We need some more discussion to really flesh out how these two things intersect.
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>>4260667
Oh I see, you're saying they won't always fit well together and logical consistency is impossible.

Well here's the deal though, we still need to figure out our position on both better. It's fine to shrug this off and say "and at times will never fit well together" now...well except it's not. If we had a more nuanced position on our principles then we might could've resolved this whole situation better. Instead we've gone and pissed off Alecto because we pretty much ran roughshod over the Furies' desire, and possible rights, to get payback.
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>>4260711
Well, on the topic of ethical consistence (and sorry that I'm coming in to this conversation late), what is the actual ethic being expressed in this idea? Are we talking about prevention or retribution? Because you've been going back and forth on it. Not an accusation, just trying to nail down our particulars. Is our goal to prevent the wicked from causing further harm? Or is it to hurt the wicked, make them pay for their actions? Those are two very different and not necessarily complimentary ethical stances.

Also, just as a point of clarification, that's not why we pissed off Alecto. We pissed her off because we called her altering of the other Furies' minds a violation of their trust. Which perhaps could have been stated better, but is a position that is entirely consistent with Shu's ethics.
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>>4260695
we have. i mean, we didn't agree, but we have.
micro and marco was a big part, aswell as an easy end to the discussion is pretty simple. we/Shu simply find Godhood a greater sin than not deleting those people, due to how much even temporarily abusing those in that way would affect how people view us and thus react and exist in the new world, aswell as once on that level, to some degree, the line of where you stop deleting people will simply be an opinion, one we dont have the right to force on the world to that level.

Macro and Micro. we do something in person, we are at worse 'forcing' our worldview onto one person or one group. very few get upset, and its alot easier to justify them being upset. once on a world level, even something that seems like everyone would agree on could leave thousands, even millions upset with the decision, even when it comes to us deleting people up to a certain line we thought most would agree with deleting. now we have a not so small amount of people upset who see us as a tyrant god and even if we could argue they are misguided, they still in their eyes have a point. do we then delete them? force their brains to work differently? or still just step down because we dont care but possibly have just planted the seeds for worse than we thought we were fixing, but now cant stop it?

once you decide to act a god, you cannot stop. and Shu simply has made it a point to try and give choice, over comfort or stability. we help when and where we can, but that is very different than us taking up the literal powers of god to then decide exactly what is right or wrong for the entire world.
past by the way the minimum needed for there to even be a world, very much a different thing as we have to save the world to even have this discussion or what comes next even matter. stopping the cord to some degree is simply species survival, even if we can otherwise tack morality to it aswell.

>>4260711
thats... not what we did with Alecto at all.
we upset Alecto BECAUSE we stuck to our morals. we specifically upset her because we said she wasn't giving the Furies a choice with taking their anger without them knowing, and said that was wrong and even possibly abusive, and that upset her. that entirely fits with Shus morals and how we have displayed them, its just we told an Abuse victim she was Abusing others, and even if we think she is, that simply isnt going to go down well.
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>>4260695
I guess the logical consistency across all of Shu's actions is the expectation that those we meet will be at their best with their actions being geared towards doing the right thing.

She knows that the Crucible is utter hell and that the entire world will go to shit if nothing's done to stop the doom clock from ticking down and that human civilization is doomed if the rest of humanity is restored.

She's for freedom of choice, she's one to stop the loss of life at the drop of a hat, she's all for stopping evil at the drop of a hat once she's confirmed said evil.

>>4260711
>Alecto and the Furies.
I think in retrospect we would have gotten a more nuanced reaction if we told Alecto of our personal "revenge" against Isabelle when she went off and did the whole Almath debacle as a person who actually went through and completed their revenge story.

I would also agree that we need to figure out our positions on the whole "God perspective" and "mortal perspective" since the moment we reach the top of the Cord, for a singular moment Shu will have the power equivalent to a god. We've got much of our moral perspective down, but what about the god perspective?
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>>4260692
i suppose we just disagree or are on different wavelengths, as the specific topic of resurrecting people or not isnt even based off if they deserve it or not, but a totally other, kinda outside Moral i think Shus experiences would only so far have strengthened there over weakened, in part because of the betrayals, or at least 2/3s of them.
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>>4260711
i think an issue may be you and us(from what ive read, they can disagree) are putting Shus morals in a different order.

'we' have been running Shu to where Freedom, Choice, and Self Determination are the cornerstone and first part of her morality. yes, Shu care about others and wishes to help, but those still come first, and so even if there is a good argument to being a God and deleting those people, even if it causes a contradiction, Choice, Freedom. and Self Determination come first, and those rule out Shu being a god before anything else is taken into account.

you are coming at is as if Shu either has helping others and preventing harm as coming first or equally to choice, freedom, and determination, but they dont. its not how we have played Shu or had Shu explain her morality. they are still on her list, she still enacts them, they just dont come first nor are as important to her.
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>>4260711
>>4260729
>>4260735
gah, sorry, but just did have another thought.

kinda outside of and irrelevant to the morality/ethics question here, but i think Shu has plenty of personal reasons due to her experiences to both not want to be a god, nor trust anyone to be a god, regardless of how that interacts with her morals otherwise.

and feelings like that i think shouldn't be ignored, even if they do cause issues with consistency in her mindset, which honestly is a very human thing to have.
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>>4260729
>Also, just as a point of clarification, that's not why we pissed off Alecto. We pissed her off because we called her altering of the other Furies' minds a violation of their trust.
Okay, that's a fair way of phrasing it. If we'd addressed the core argument of why she was doing that though, rather than calling her out on doing it first, then it probably would've played out differently.

>>4260732
>>4260760
>'we' have been running Shu to where Freedom, Choice, and Self Determination are the cornerstone and first part of her morality.
So this is where I take issue actually. IF we are running with Shu considering personal choice first then why do we apply it sometimes to some people and not other times to other people?

I'm trying to suss out the consistency or inconsistency in how we apply the first over the latter.

The most recent point that I can think of is that we insisted all of the Furies' abusers (and Rath's family for that matter) be given the chance to reform. These people the Furies want revenge against have presumably demonstrated their negative tendencies multiple times over elongated time periods. Yet we negotiated for the Furies to wait one more time before actually hanging them by any nooses.

Meanwhile we are gunning for Dr. West with everything we've got.

There seems to be inconsistency here. When, where, and why do we allow some people a last chance to exercise their freedom of choice and others we oppose with everything we've got?

Is it just that we've personally encountered the victims and work of Dr. West but the Furies' torturers are abstract?

>>4260729
>Is our goal to prevent the wicked from causing further harm? Or is it to hurt the wicked, make them pay for their actions? Those are two very different and not necessarily complimentary ethical stances.
That's what I'm trying to figure out. Sometimes we seem to think one way, other times another (which is the wont of quests, of course, but that's another matter.)
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>>4260791
but we have been consistent. Yurei's entire plan was taking away what we stood for, so in order to defend freedom, we had to stop her. its taking away her choice, but if we hadn't, she would've taken away everyone's choice.

there is no inconsistency. Dr.West wishes to literally kill humanity and then go on a billion year science spree of killing and eating other planets, before she herself then decides exactly what should be good for the entirety of the universe. going after her is both irrelevant to morality due to her threat to humanities survival, and then fits our morality of wanting choice, over letting her choose for everyone.

context matters, and you're looking at it as a whole, instead of in those moments. sometimes to defend choice and freedom, someone cant be allowed to make theirs. just like to defend life and keep people alive, sometimes you have to kill someone. but for both, the thing you're overlooking possibly is, the people we stop HAVE been allowed to make their choice, so we are now making ours to prevent them from taking others choices away. (or they decided to kill, so we are doing what we have to to preserve the most life, just to fill out both examples.)

we didn't stop Alecto from having the choice to lie to them and not give them a choice, but we ARE enacting ours and sticking to our morals by saying we will ensure they have said choice of if their anger is stolen or not.

its all been completely consistent with what we stand for, when taken within the context of the moment, over trying to look at it only as a whole.
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>>4260746
It's most likely the latter on many occasions with the former less frequent since most of my votes have different priorities that I want to place at a higher value than yours. If we did disagree, then we would've had more of the old usual back and forth that usually ends with either of us closing the argument with a post that goes along the lines of "I disagree, nothing you say will make me change my mind, go suck my dick you jackass" and its many variants way back then.

still feels like it was yesterday when we had those arguments. Still seems like we've been talking past each other on different wavelengths.

>>4260695
>Stop bad people
>Throws a wrench in the works. We already use our powers to stop folks that we know are about to do bad things, or have done bad things from existing and/or doing those bad things.
>At the point we attain the cord our power to exercise this aspect grows. We need some more discussion to really flesh out how these two things intersect.

I think our threshold when it comes to that part of our morals is where we draw the line. Being proactive and stopping people that have done bad things from existing and/or doing those bad things is the easy part, but the hard part that we're trying to define and ensure that we don't cross is the "before they do a bad thing" part. It's the moral quandary about the stopping people preemptively before the deed is done because that part can be twisted super hard into the warped aspect of "godhood" the stronger we become. This is why we tossed aside our empathy field. Sure it gave us the ability to preemptively fix the bad things from happening but that crossed the line of "godhood" that we've drawn for ourselves. It's the same moral quandary as "Pre-crime" in the Minority Report.

It's doing the best we can to stop bad people from doing bad things, but to do so as a human, not as some all powerful god who can simply ctrl alt del anyone.

>>4260791
>Meanwhile we are gunning for Dr. West with everything we've got.

>There seems to be inconsistency here. When, where, and why do we allow some people a last chance to exercise their freedom of choice and others we oppose with everything we've got?

>Is it just that we've personally encountered the victims and work of Dr. West but the Furies' torturers are abstract?
I would say yes. It's on the level of "trust but verify".

Dr. West has also told Shu her goals, she's told us what she plans to do when if she were to become a god (turn the entire galaxy into her personal laboratory without moral boundaries).

We didn't stop Uzu because we couldn't confirm she actually needed to be stopped before the Monastery Hunger cascade as we couldn't properly verify it.

For Yurei, we stopped her because she told us what she could do, what she plans to do, and the lengths she's willing to go.

As for the Furies, we can't really confirm the scale or length of the life of all of their woes, it's hard to quantify/qualify with a broad verdict.
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>>4260823
thats fair. same end goal or set of wants, different priority in order or how to get there does feel like a good way of putting it yeah.
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>>4260791
For me the difference between what the Furies want and what we want to do to West Prime has to do with that distinction between prevention and retribution. We're not going after West Prime to punish her. Her crimes, though repugnant, are just evidence for the case of "this is why West has to be stopped". Ultimately, we seek to defeat her because she is an immanent existential threat to the human species.

What the Furies want is to harm the people who have harmed them. And you can argue that they have a right to do so. But I think you also have to be far more circumspect when it gets into that retaliatory violence, because that's far more emotion-driven and it's much easier to go too far in the name of seeking your pound of flesh. Which was Shu's position. Not "you have no right to seek recompense for their crimes" but "be careful not to let your desire for justice descend into a desire for vengeance, because that's self-destructive".

That's part of my issue with the idea of making exceptions in the Cord's resurrection protocols. Why do we have to kill these people? Sure, do what we can to stop bad people, but what about that requires their deaths? It feels like it's vengeance, not justice, the argument that they're bad and so that excuses any bad things we do to them. I have trouble supporting that. Even if Shu was willing to exercise far more large-scale power, I'd still have an issue with just killing large swathes of the populace for their crimes. If you're that powerful, death is kind of a failure of the imagination. Imprison them, make sure they never hurt anyone ever again, leave them to irrelevance and deny them any emotional power over their victims. You can do that easily. Killing them is just unnecessary.
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>>4260806
>but we have been consistent. Yurei's entire plan was taking away what we stood for, so in order to defend freedom, we had to stop her. its taking away her choice, but if we hadn't, she would've taken away everyone's choice.
Now let me correct you, we took Yurei on when she threatened us and our family and were happy to let her carry on otherwise. Well not necessarily happy but we'd pretty much decided to let the conflict flare up later.

Anyway

I think I get it now, under that context our actions to this point make sense. Going forward though this seems to me to be flimsy.

>>4260823
>It's doing the best we can to stop bad people from doing bad things, but to do so as a human, not as some all powerful god who can simply ctrl alt del anyone.
lol@saying we're doing this as a human
This though I still have an issue with, we could already ctrl alt del low level daughters. If some of them were doing wrong then we'd stop them no questions asked. As time goes on the threshold for our power is only going to increase. This is going to happen very quickly, actually, I imagine.

Anyway, I'm getting too tired to carry on now anyhow.

>>4260898
Perpetual imprisonment is much more cruel for everyone involved than just offing them in my book.

On your point about prevention/retribution though, that's a complicated conundrum. If we're going after West for her imminent threat to the species, then why aren't we culling settlements like Magpie when they're all highly likely to explode into another Spiraling Fear that would be a similar level threat?
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>>4261062
well, yes and no.
we made it clear we stood against Yurei and would stop her if she planned to go along that plan. we very much made it clear we would not allow her to implement it so long as she planned to force it on everyone.

we did only decide to attack her right then and there for threatening our family, but it only got to the point of her threatening us BECAUSE we said we stood against her, which i do think matters.

>Going forward though this seems to me to be flimsy.
well, then we just simply disagree pretty heavily, because i dont think its flimsy at all, both in what we stand for or how we have been doing it.

>If we're going after West for her imminent threat to the species, then why aren't we culling settlements like Magpie when they're all highly likely to explode into another Spiraling Fear that would be a similar level threat?
West is purposefully and directly looking and wanting to be a threat to humanity, and is actively one.
and we dont know on the settlements. there may be some we have to face off against. the point was, and we can assume for some others, that the Settlements do not want or are trying to be a threat to humanity or others, they just might becomes one. the fact they do not want or have intentions to be a threat matter, like, alot.
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>>4261062
>>4261074
oh, also, trying to keep to the spirit of being human i think matters, even if our bodies no longer are. we're still human at our base, even if our bodies have changed.

also, a person whos ripped and knows how to fight has a severe advantage over most, or a person with a gun has alot of extra power to swat people away. but that both doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to be a bodybuilder or martial artist or own a weapon, nor that if necessary they shouldn't use those to help people or stop bad people. power disparity is just a part of life, but its how you use what you have and how you dont use it that matters.
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>>4261062
>On your point about prevention/retribution though, that's a complicated conundrum. If we're going after West for her imminent threat to the species, then why aren't we culling settlements like Magpie when they're all highly likely to explode into another Spiraling Fear that would be a similar level threat?
Because of the degree of intention. The settlements aren't intentionally posing a threat to anyone, it's incidental, which means that they don't warrant death. There are other possible solutions to their danger, like the arrangement we made with Kanna to try to take some of the strain off of the Altar. We don't have to resort to violence with them. Maybe things will go horribly wrong and we will, but it's not a given.

We do have to resort to violence with West Prime, because she wants to hurt people. She knows what she's doing is wrong, she's doing it anyways, diplomacy or non-violent solutions aren't an option there. We have to fight her to eliminate that threat, and since we don't have means to take her in alive and have her tried and punished, death is the only possible resolution for that fight. If West wasn't hurting people on purpose, if she was just doing something that could accidentally cause a lot of harm, then yes, I'd suggest negotiating with her. But West isn't some absent-minded scientist inadvertently causing a disaster, she's intentionally doing awful things, which means it must come down to a fight.
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>>4261062
>On your point about prevention/retribution though, that's a complicated conundrum. If we're going after West for her imminent threat to the species, then why aren't we culling settlements like Magpie when they're all highly likely to explode into another Spiraling Fear that would be a similar level threat?

If we're culling settlements like Magpie, then we've already crossed the line and failed in our morals. We would have already failed, gone the way of a disillusioned Mara or went full Magpie and become another tyrant of terror. Besides, we can't properly verify on a personal level as to how close to the edge each settlement is. The more time spent culling settlements, the more chaos we cause, which basically speeds up the doom timer, the more tarnished our reputation becomes, which goes against the main principle that we espouse to: Stopping the Crucible by ensuring as many daughters survive the aftermath. Culling settlements as "prevention" is no less the same as culling a settlement to selfishly power-level when the end result is a bunch of daughters died just so you can climb the cord. And in a crapsack world like the Crucible, many daughters will automatically default to the most selfish and malicious reason to justify why a daughter committed an atrocity of that scale regardless of said daughter's "true motive."
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>>4261083
I'd go further and argue that the existence of settlements like Laoc is actually proof that the power disparity between Daughters doesn't have to cause problems. I'm sure it can, I can imagine so many scenarios where power is abused, but it's not an inevitability. We can have societies where the existence of powerful superhumans doesn't lead to those superhumans oppressing the weaker ones. There are plenty of social incentives and mores we can use to discourage that sort of thinking, and make a decent society.
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>>4261099
well yeah, very true and i agree.
i was just focusing more on the fact those already exist and will always exist is all.
still good point like i said.
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(Gentlemen, I do hope everyone's weekend went well. Due to some unexpected developments, I will have to delay the continuation of this Vein until tomorrow at 2:00PM, Eastern time. I hate to delay it further, but some rather bizarre turns of events have resulted in the friend we helped move over the weekend living with us for the foreseeable future, to say nothing of how work is evolving. In any case, thank you all for bearing with me through this, and I look forward to catching up on everyone's discussions - it looks like they were impressive, if my initial glance is anything to go by.)
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>>4262003

It was a very thorough discussion on the philosophical framework and the moral conundrums that we have to ponder upon when it comes to the quest.

I do hope your day is going well. So in return I come bearing a very lovely video for you to share and enjoy as well as a picture. The video is definitely right up your alley. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDgECiOFHME


>that pic.
You know, that would have been Andersen's actual form had he not been reunited with his wife and given a small portion of her vitruvian core for him to invest and expand upon. It really goes to show what love can do. Thank you for that image.
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>>4262003
Oh, well i do hope she's alright, but thats quite admirable of you to do BHOP.
I understand, and hope it works out as well as such a situation can.
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>>4262003
It was pretty crazy...... i actually missed the voting deadline because i was so distracted by it and what happened in my local community. Our church had the first service since this entire thing began and i had volunteered to help out a bit

We went to assassinate a Sith Pureblood for a member of the dark council. We were three people. My character Wiz(a nearly emotionless Gank who sees the world in target, useful but still target and target for later),
A modified Human woman that looked like she was barely a teenager despite being in her early twentys named Charlotte(powerful force wielder),
and a Muun Banker named Jacobus(who was quite a good shot with his sniper rifle)...... I as the fighter of the group charged in with my assault rifle.... the human woman forcechockes one enemy at a time while i break through into our targets apartment. The other two take four rounds to kill one immobilized enemy that was being choked to death.
No flak at Charlotte she immobilized one enemy after the other went down but wasnt a combat character but the Muun missed two shots with a sniper rifle from like a meter away..... They managed to kill the one enemy i killed the five others(two of which were invisible for the entire fight... so i filled their general direction with lead until nothing but a mangled mass of limbs remained that was partially visible due to the gore and blood splatterd all over it) and our target..... My dice were on fire for that session


The Elder Scrollls thing well. First mission is kill some aggressive wolfs. What do we find? A goddamn Werewolf (I nearly had a heart attack) and a kid that had likely been bitten by it. We killed the feral Werewolf and got the kid to a temple. Maybe they can help the boy but most likely they will just put him down. After we returned to Solitude i got a mission from the thieves guild, nearly murdered the guy i was trying to get information from and then had to realize that i was rapidly running out of money. So i had to get a small job in between investigations.

Alsó have the picture how imagine my character to look like and what kind of expression she tends to show.

Anyway I hope your friend will get on their feet soon again and find a new place. I take it someone folded with the new place?
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