You are Alberich: serial killer, familiar to two magi, and dubiously related to the gods. Despite having no biological parents, you've somehow wound up being considered the brother of two dangerously unstable girls, each unaware of the other's existence. On the night of Wednesday, November 13, 2019, you found yourself in a dimly lit stone basement, standing in the middle of a magic circle. You had been summoned as a Servant, a legendary warrior contracted after their death to fight alongside a magus for the Holy Grail, their existence sustained by the mystic energy of their summoner. In your case you were conned by Judas Iscariot into taking his place despite not being a legendary warrior, but that's neither here nor there at this point. The magic empowered you enough to fill the role, anyway.After spending a few days learning about the Holy Grail War and your surroundings, you and your Master, Jean-Pierre Vaisset, had your first skirmish with the enemy: a complete defeat. The enemy Servant outclassed you utterly, and the only reason you survived was that her Master ordered her to retreat once he'd killed Vaisset.With Vaisset dead and your supply of mystic energy cut off, you were prepared to fade into the aether when you discovered to your surprise that he'd prepared a backup plan to transfer his Command Spells to his sister in the event of his death. This transfer of authority was immediately followed by a physical transference, and you appeared in the girl's bedroom. Thus you found yourself breaking the news of her older brother's death to Shijou Ayaka, your new Master, in the middle of the night, only a few moments after you learned of it yourself.She took it surprisingly well, and since then many things have happened. You slew one Servant, grew stronger by his death, and fled from another. You learned the truth that you were never human, but an artificial hero created by Judas. You discovered that there were two other artificial heroes created like yourself, and that they were your old comrades. Most recently, you've been forced to the conclusion that you must betray the first people you had considered allies in this Holy Grail War.None of these revelations have changed your goal, however. Whether or not your life has been by the design of another, and regardless of who stands in your way, there is only one path before you. You must win the Holy Grail if you wish to survive. Five Servants remain to fall by your sword.Previous thread: >>3663740Suptg Archive:http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=Sweets-Loving%20QMStatus Information:https://pastebin.com/qsKX4p5b
Where we left off...You pause for a moment, before giving Liliesviel an answer. Now that you consider it, you're not completely certain that betraying the Emiya family now is the right idea. Suppose that this is all a ploy. You can't imagine that Liliesviel would betray you, but with Niemand you're not so certain. Perhaps he's only manipulating you into fighting the Einzberns' battles. It seems as if he's deceiving his Master, after all. Liliesviel referred to "that arsonist Servant," but if Niemand had truly learned everything about you and told her, she would know the truth about Kōrakuhime, and that you have no reason to look for her other than deceiving the Emiya family. She seems ignorant of this fact, however. Could she have a similarly false notion of your own identity, some story told her by Niemand in order to make it easier for the girl to use and betray you?But no, such worrying is ridiculous. Even if Niemand is planning your downfall, that fact is unimportant. What matters is Emiya, and his intentions towards the Holy Grail. Whether or not it's truly cursed as he says, whether or not Niemand intends to betray you, the Holy Grail represents your only path to survival after the War and Emiya intends to destroy it. For the sake of your survival, then, he and his family must be wiped out. That still leaves you with the choice between Liliesviel's two plans, though. She's looking at you expectantly, her ruby eyes full of hope and seeking your approval. She really has grown astonishingly attached to you in such a short time."We should pursue the former plan," you declare. "Emiya may be our first priority, but the fact remains that Berserker is a dangerous threat, and one that Emiya and his companions have proven effective in combating. If we destroy Berserker together, then turn on Emiya, we'll have eliminated one of our most significant threats while at the same time weakening the enemy combatants in preparation for defeating them.""Heee~h?" Liliesviel sounds uncertain about your plan. "What if Emiya's wife absorbs Berserker after he dies, though? We have to make sure she dies before any other Servants do. But she wasn't there when you went out to fight together last time.""That's a valid point," you concede, "but isn't there some way you can make sure that the Einzbern grail is the one to take in Berserker's power? Perhaps if you were present for his defeat, you could use your family's magic to ensure his power doesn't escape.""Maybe," Liliesviel says hesitantly. "I don't know how Emiya's wife's power works, so I can't be sure." She pauses for a moment, absently touching a finger to her chin as she considers the idea. "But if you think it would be the best way, I'll give it a try, Onii-chan.""Excellent," you reply. "How should we stay in contact? I'll need some way of informing you when and where Emiya and I are battling against Berserker."
"Oh, you don't need to worry about that," Liliesviel says cheerily. "We'll keep an eye on you tonight, so you can just focus on getting Emiya to go out hunting that rogue Servant again." Without waiting for your reply, she suddenly claps her hands together. "Stachel, Stengel," she calls, "you can bring our other guest back out now!" Then, to you, she continues, "I think that's everything we need to talk about today, right?""Yes," you say, and get to your feet as the maids lead Ayaka back into the room. "I suppose it is. I'll look forward to seeing you again this evening, Liliesviel."Ayaka doesn't say anything for a few moments, just looking at you and Liliesviel with an oddly vacant expression. You can't help but wonder just how hard she took Liliesviel's comments about her suitability as a Master. The poor girl looks as if she's in shock."Our discussion is over, Miss Ayaka," you tell her. "Let's get back down to the car. I'll explain our course of action while we're on the way home." Your Master nods, and soundlessly follows you out of the building. During the entire time you spend in the elevator and the walk out of the Einzbern Tower's lobby, she stays silent, but animation does gradually return to her features and movements as you grow more distant from Liliesviel's penthouse. Once you're finally on the road, you ask, "How are you feeling, Miss Ayaka? Liliesviel spoke very harshly to you earlier.""I'm sorry, Saber-san," she says, tone redolent with despair. "You shouldn't have a Master like me. Everything that girl said was right. I can't make decisions, I can't fight. I'm no good as a person or a magus! I couldn't even stand up to a little girl like that. When she said all those things about me... it was all so true, Saber-san! I couldn't stand there and pretend I deserved to be with you. You should have a real magus like that girl for a Master instead. I just.... I... I..." Large tears slip down her cheeks as Ayaka dissolves into incoherence, losing track of what she's trying to convey."Miss Ayaka," you say firmly, cutting off her uncertain speech. "You have nothing to apologize to me for. You are the ideal Master; I wouldn't choose Liliesviel over you if I had a thousand opportunities to decide.""Wh-what do you mean?" Ayaka blinks her tear-filled eyes, looking confusedly at you through her haze of self-loathing and recrimination. "I can't do any of the things a Master is supposed to," she says, starting to launch back into her litany of negativity, but you don't let her continue.
"You do exactly what my Master needs to do," you tell the girl. "You provide me with the energy I need to survive and you've given me the ability to grow stronger. Miss Ayaka, do you believe that I would be alive after battling Berserker if I had not absorbed a portion of Rider's energy; the energy your ritual allowed me to take in? I won't salve my pride by ignoring the truth. My skills kept me alive in that fight, but so did Heiligöffnungschwert's power. If anyone but you had been my Master, I wouldn't have that power."Ayaka gives you an uncertain look, and after several seconds the girl manages to put a stop to her tears. "Yes," she says, "I guess you did gain some power from the ritual, huh?" For a moment her spirits seem to be lifting, until her expression suddenly falls once more. "But still," she says, "that doesn't change anything about my incompetence. I'd be a better Master if I could fight, or make plans, wouldn't I? Just admit that you hate being saddled with a burden like me.""You may find this difficult to believe," you say, "but I truly don't find you a burden. For me, you are the ideal Master. You cannot fight? So much the better; the important thing for a Master to do is remain alive, anchoring my existence. A combat-capable Master like your brother would feel compelled to take part in the battle, and possibly die as a result; you show more prudence. As for your decision-making, well," you chuckle in spite of yourself at the idea of someone thinking you'd want them to make decisions for you. "I value my role in our partnership a great deal.""Really?" Ayaka still sounds distraught, unsure whether she can believe you. "You mean it's, it's okay for me to be like this? You wouldn't rather go to that Liliesviel girl?""It's alright, Miss Ayaka," you insist, keeping your voice warm and reassuring. "You're not a burden on me, and I will not abandon you. I told you this morning, didn't I? No matter what happens, I won't leave you to face the world alone. Not after your brother died on my behalf."Ayaka lays her hand over your free one, on the armrest between you. You can still feel her shaking slightly, but she seems to have mostly calmed down. After a long silence, she says, "Thank you, Saber-san," in a more controlled voice. It seems you've gotten through the worst.The rest of the drive passes quickly as you explain the plan you and Liliesviel made to dispose of Emiya, and soon you're back home at the Shijou manor. By your watch, it's not about 3:00pm. You know what you'll be doing tonight, but for now there's the last of the afternoon to use in preparation.
>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)>[ ] Return to the room you used to train with Kōrakuhime this morning and experiment with summoning. (Pride)>[ ] Head directly to the Emiya residence. After the last fight with Berserker, you want as much time as possible to discuss strategy with them. (Self-Preservation)>[ ] Do something else (Write in)
>>3717506>[ ] Return to the room you used to train with Kōrakuhime this morning and experiment with summoning. (Pride)I still want to backstab that smug asshole Niemand.
With Sadpanda resurrected Alberich power is renewed.
>>3717506>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)
>>3717506>[ ] Return to the room you used to train with Kōrakuhime this morning and experiment with summoning. (Pride)
>>3717506>>3717513Of course, to actually do that, I realised Korakuhime will need to advise. So switch to...>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)We need to find how the hell we're being watched, and also potentially some backstab planning.Sumenai, summoning.
>>3717506>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)>>3717561We might have to obscure the conversation, both visually and audibly.
>>3717568This is assuming that a mental link is impossible.
>>3717516Top reply, anon. You made me laugh.
So we never got to hear exactly how to kill Achilles from Niemand. That might've been a good idea. Most likely it has something to do with his heels but who knows for sure?
>>3717590"Trust me bro, I know how to kill Achilles."Gee thanks Niemand. I'm pretty certain everyone does.
I'm finally getting around to reading Lolita, and I think Alberich would find Humbert Humbert a compelling and relatable protaganist.>Alberich pep-talking AyakaAww, giving me Iskandar memories. How cute.>>3717590Working on the assumption that the Einzbern broke the rules and summoned a lesser form of a god, he probably has some "always strikes true" bullshit that autohits the target. Hence, heel-stabby and berserker dies.
>>3717671Fuck the Gods. Overpowered assholes.Honestly we're fucked as soon as Niemand tells Lily about Korakuhime. We know nothing about his motivations.
>>3717506>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)Hopefully talking to our sister now before Niemand is supposed to watch us will spare our conversation from his prying eyes.
>>3717506>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)We're going to be monitored and I don't like that. Also damn, Ayaka got hit REALLY HARD from that trash talk. How much affection points did we score after that pep-talk?
>>3717720>We know nothing about his motivations.You know he's been consistently helping you out so far.
>>3717506>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)Likely the smartest course of action given the situation we are in.
>>3717761And now I'm even less trusting of him.
>>3717671>I'm finally getting around to reading Lolita, and I think Alberich would find Humbert Humbert a compelling and relatable protaganist.Want to expand on that point? I read it like 10 years ago, so I only really remember the general plot at this point.
>>3717794It's mostly a banal joke about being attracted to just-pubescent girls. We'd need to up Alberich's desire stat by maybe 50 to get him REALLY relating to the poor, creepy yuro. Humbert's way of seeing life as colorless and uninspiring (aside from his fetish) would be relatable to Alberich. Also, Humbert is based and hag-pilled.
>>3717779It is shaped like he has some really unusual agenda just like Judas had but I feel like this should be our last guess about his plan simply because how wishful thinking it is. It is much more believable that he is just some manipulative politician who prefer do play mastermind and use people against eachother only to deliver decisive blow in perfect time. With him regarding his Master as some overseeing institution who better off just falling in line with his agenda.
>>3717794He's a pedo.Why is Alberich a pedo again? I'm not a big fan of the direction you're going with that, even if it's not really represented much in the quest
>>3717821>Why is Alberich a pedo again?All because of Hitler.
>>3717821>Why is Alberich a pedo again?Because he's three weeks old and all of his sexual-adjacent encounters have been with (admittedly beautiful) servants that look like underaged girls. Me myself, I blame Hitler. I don't really see it as an issue though. Alberich isn't some raging satyr, and Sweets isn't a lowbrow fetishist. The quest won't devolve into something terrible because of it.
>>3717815>It's mostly a banal joke about being attracted to just-pubescent girls.Ah, I see. Since you brought up that you were reading it, I was thinking it was a reference to some more obscure detail.Yeah, the colorless thing is definitely a parallel; although it's also a general genre trope of mentally ill characters to have no engagement with life beyond a specific focus.
>>3717816He's straight up hiding stuff from her if he's aware of all of our activities.He'd be aware of our origin, also.We're unbelievably fucked if he decides to backstab us and tell Lily.If we backstab him first, then we could ease Lily into the truth, rather than allow him to drop our identity on her whenever he wants.His existence is a threat to both our identity and continued existence. He must be destroyed.
>>3717821>>3717831Just think: If you'd picked Lancer at the beginning, all this could be different...
>>3717821Circe and Adelheid's fault.Both look rather young. Charisma Rank A from Adelheid and whatever the fuck Circe was doing to us when we were asleep probably didn't help much either.
>>3717856You mean if we picked Archer>Servant votingLol, I remember supporting lancer for absolutely no reason back then. I knew nothing about Fate and just thought spear>>>magic.
>>3717856What was your plan Brynhildr anyway? Dead ends if we mass affection points?
>>3717870I maintain that Caster was the best choice out of every servant.
>>3717870>You mean if we picked ArcherWhat, you don't think Brynhildr's enough of a non-loli?>>3717874It would've definitely been a tightrope.
>>3717889You have to admit Archer would've been cooler, if not more effective. >>3717895If I could go back in time I would reject waifus in the name of badass
>tfw Judas stages an intervention and tries to get you to stop being a lolicon but you tell him to fuck off and gouge out his heart.Sorry dad.
>>3717909If he told Rushorou he would get more power if he had killed one or both of Adelheid and Circe it would have been a great character development moment
>>3717908Archer wouldn't have been so effective and Circe as our enemy would've been nightmarish. Shirou dead ends to Caster the most in SN.
>>3717908Your Servant was always going to be a waifu, anon. If you'd picked Archer, Blondie wouldn't have been in the war.
>>3717914That would kind of ruin his whole deception though.And he'd still have told him to fuck off, don't be silly. He was still under the impression that there was a wish available at the time.
>>3717922...... you said that earlier, didn't you? Damn it, Revolver Rushorou was always an impossible dream.>>3717918I said I agreed, no? Caster was objectively the best choice in the end for both winning the war and developing Alberich the Hero. >>3717925>And he'd still have told him to fuck off, don't be silly. Perhaps
>>3717936>perhapsLike 99.99 percent certainty.Alberich/Rushorou doesn't lust for power at the expense of those he considers closest to him.It's one of his few positive character traits.
>>3717954I likely would have voted to the contrary. It's a character trait that I have consistently voted against, going back to "Cid" taking Matsuda hostage.
>>3717963And you would've been massively outvoted. It would've been massively OOC for Rushorou to do so.Or even to believe Judas if he told the truth at that point.>"Actually no lmao there's no wish, kill one of your waifus to make yourself stronger."
>>3717971>It would've been massively OOCIf sweets presents something as a vote, then any listed option can be interpreted as being IC. You're correct about the incompatibility of the framing for the question, so I suppose I'm arguing for a moot point.
The thing is that "kill one of them to become stronger" basically was the proposition at the time.Remember that Rushorou's wish for the grail was to become the most powerful being in the moonlit world, or something along those lines.
>>3717997At least at the time, the existence of another servant for the completion of the "ritual" rendered it a irrelevant issue for me. You can't make an all powerful ritual empowered wish MORE all powerful.
>>3717985Honestly, I doubt anyone is stupid enough to kill the person they love for something so vague as "a wish" or "you'll get stronger".You'd have to be REALLY STUPID to fall for that.
>>3718014The fact Rushorou took a harder path to his wish instead of killing one of his Servants and taking the easy route still kind of speaks volumes about him.
>>3717997Well that was the choice as presented by Cid. The real choice was either kill Circe or Adelheid, or fight Cid and kill assassin. Killing one of his allies was an option for achieving his goals, but not a requirement. I'm interested to see how Albreich would choose in a situation where he was forced to make a decision between his friends and his aspirations.
>>3718043>I'm interested to see how Albreich would choose in a situation where he was forced to make a decision between his friends and his aspirations.Anon shut up stop giving him ideas
>>3718043See the Matsuda hostage situation or running off to save Circe.Friends win, every time.Rushorou/Alberich is an excellent friend/husbando.
>>3718048I wouldn't hold your breath for a scene like that. It's really hard to engineer a situation where there was no other possible option but sacrificing your friends without liberal use of contrivances. That said, my point still stands.
Now I'm curious to what the other Servants would have been besides Bryn and Ado.
>>3718071If you comb the Awakening Mirror archives I'm pretty sure you'll find a post by sweets listing every one.
>>3718071>Bryn and Ado>AdoI wish.Ado Edem is OP.
>>3718065It's a good thing Alberich doesn't have an insanely simple and easy-to-challenge code of ideals
>>3718086The name "slash emperor" never fails to get a chuckle out of me.
>>3718054Not needlessly abandoning valuable allies doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a point where sacrificing them would seem viable. What if the Grail, for whatever contrived reason needed Ayaka's corpse to function. Setting aside the fact that such a situation would be pattently retarded, would Albreich sacrifice her to survive?
>>3718092Good question, we should ask Shirou.
>>3718099>Ywn get a best girl so best that she would die to resurrect you Shirou deserves what he's gonna get
>>3718111Speaking of which, what is he going to get? If I recall correctly, you folks were in the middle of debating what to do about the Emiya family when the last thread archived.
>>3718119I personally want to kill them, both to eliminate loose ends and because Sakura is looking REALLY tasty. I'm probably going to compromise with all the people who want them alive for one reason or another.
>>3718125>Sakura is looking REALLY tasty.Anon, no.
>>3718119Good question. For now I just want him to get the fuck out of our way and the city.I think knowing how much danger he's put his loved ones in should cause him a nice amount of suffering.Possible mental alterations later
>>3718125>Sakura is looking REALLY tastyIn this episode, Alberich becomes the Shadow.
>>3718119I want him to get a terminal case of death.>>3718125>Sakura is looking REALLY tastyAnon YES>>3718137First worm-woman, next the Tokyo metropolitan area.
>>3718158Absorbing Sakura's energy could potentially have some negative consequences. I don't really want to risk it.The plan to backstab Niemand and force the Emiyas out of Tokyo works better for us than just following instructions. I don't see why everyone wants Sword Autist dead so much.
Huh.Remember when we as Rushorou tried to tell everyone in the war that Judas was playing everyone?This is kind of a parallel to that in a way.Except we're the one being played. The whole "Emiya is planning to betray you" argument doesn't really hold up considering the actions he's taken.He's still an obstacle, but not one that deserves to be mercilessly crushed.
>>3718091Considering a lot of our tactics in the coming battle are dependant on Ayaka's ritual, I would like a general explanation on how it's done. The image of sacrificing the dove made it seem like a physically prepared ritual but we never saw how Ayaka performed the ritual when we fought Roland. I want to know how long it takes to do and what's involved in the preparation.
>>3718173The very existence of a rogue element like the Emiyas capable of interfering in a conflict so integral to Alberich's survival is unacceptable. Also, in killing them he could get some sacrificial energy which could prove key to his victory in the war.>The plan to backstab Niemand and force the Emiyas out of Tokyo works better for us than just following instructions. Why do we have to let them live after finishing off Niemand? The "get forced allies" argument is nonsensical to me, and the idea we could intimidate them into letting us do as we please is absurd.>>3718199Y'know, it probably *is* a good idea to get an understanding of the general mechanics of the all-important ritual. Time to ask Ayaka after informing Tsubaki.
>>3718198We're not being played at all though. We're going into this expecting to betrayed. The plan is to betray Neimand harder and faster than he can. It actually is quite similar to the Cid situation. We still fought the war because it served our interests and always understood that we would need to defeat Cid when we obtained the opportunity.
>>3718199Good point, both betraying the Emiyas and killing Rider or backstabbing Niemand would require the ritual be a rapid thing.Is it time to monologue at the Emiyas until Ayaka can target Niemand?TACTICAL MONOLOGUE.This plan just keeps getting better and better.
>>3718208>Tactical monologueNow this really brings a smile to my face
>>3718205Finally, someone's talking sense. If you think the emiyas will step aside and let us subjugate them you're either lying to yourself out of sympathy for them or a fool.
>>3718205>idea we can intimidate them is absurd>can literally just threaten Sakura so Rider and Shirou won't do shit. Rin, even if she was willing to endanger Sakura isn't strong enough to make a difference alone. It's not hard, anon. Having Circe mind control them wouldn't be that hard either. The only challenge is Rider, but even Saber breaks under Medea's magic eventually.
>>3718208Tactical monologue reminds me of the Sota Voca from joker quest. It was a weapon designed to blast enemies with undetectable radiation while you stalled them with dialogue.
>>3718220>"I'll kill your wife/sister/master, so fuck off"Forgive me if I think this will make them more inclined to oppose Alberich than not.
>>3718215It's surprisingly simple though. If the Emiyas believe that they can't go out at night otherwise Sakura and the Kids will be in danger, they've got a few options.>Stay at the house, eliminating the threat they pose>Leave the city, eliminating the threat they pose >bring Sakura out at night, endangering the kids at home and Sakura, who isn't a combatant. You see the idea?
>>3718228>"I have a Caster right outside your house ready to activate a killing field, so fuck off or die."Why even bother keeping Tsubaki alive if we aren't gonna use her to any extent?
>>3718238But why make such a use of Tsubaki rather than just killing them, permanently eliminating the threat?
>>3718242Because they are like the least threatening threat ever, and have also shown us hospitality.If it weren't for our intervention they would all already be dead.Having Circe being able to get us all the knowledge of a Sorcerers apprentice with her memory manipulation magic could also be useful.They are fantastic tools.And I don't want to upset Taiga and Illya.
>>3718256>Because they are like the least threatening threat ever, and have also shown us hospitalityMeaningless emotionality, unbefitting a superior entity like Alberich>If it weren't for our intervention they would all already be dead.Meh, sunk cost>Having Circe being able to get us all the knowledge of a Sorcerers apprentice with her memory manipulation magic could also be useful.This is true.>They are fantastic tools.Unreliable, dangerous tools who largely fill unnecessary niches. We don't need Shirou the sword, we only need Medusa for the duration of the Berserker fight, we don't REALLY need Rin, and Sakura's energy is the only useful part about her. >And I don't want to upset Taiga and IllyaDamn, that's compelling.....I think that the destruction of a threat and acquisition of sacrificial energy is on the whole better than tenuous allies and not disappointing the Dojo grills. You don't. I suppose the masses must decide the Emiya's fate.
>>3718256We didn't get this far by underestimating our opponents anon. Your reasoning for keeping them alive is based entirely in sentimentality rather than any kind of pragmatism. Besides, I would much rather have Kirei's Confessional than the Tiger dojo. Don't you want Kirei and Judas to confront you with all your failures anon?
>>3718277>I would much rather have Kirei's Confessional than the Tiger dojo.I agree with you, but this is absolutely abysmal taste.
>>3718270Here's a question. If we turn Shirou into a Fake Noble Phantasm factory for our new empire...And Adelheid's NP includes the line "as she can manifest the powers of any product of the nation she represents"Do you think we could somehow combine the two to make her incredibly bullshit?
>>3718277>>3718284>My players are talking about how they prefer the new Fate quest in my own thread
>>3718299I prefer the Taiga Dojo, Sweets.Kirei is mean.
>>3718299Oi, I agreed with his point on dealing with our enemies. I was pointing out his lack of taste in choosing comedic afterlifes.
>>3718293Or, hear me out here: we eat his soul and THEN make use of his abilities.>>3718299I haven't read overgrowth, I read the idea in an earlier thread of Mirror.
>>3718306>>3718309Well, that's a relief.>>3718317What an interesting coincidence.
>>3718270That wasn't a sunk cost fallacy, that was me pointing out their lack of competenceIn dying to the first servant they fought.>Unreliable, dangerous tools who largely fill unnecessary niches. We don't need Shirou the sword, we only need Medusa for the duration of the Berserker fight, we don't REALLY need Rin, and Sakura's energy is the only useful part about her. Brainwashing makes everyone reliable. >we dont need ShirouFree Noble Phantasms is super useful.>we only need Medusa for Berserker fightRight now maybe, look to the future.>we don't REALLY need RinA large amount of info on the world we intend to fight against as well as knowledge on the Second Magic is way too useful.>Sakura's energy is the only useful part about herTrue, but having her as a mana battery is more useful in the long run than powering up a single thing.
>>3718317That won't work.UBW is a reality marble unique to Shirou.Alberich copying it would make something totally different. Also he's not EMIYA so it's a moot point as we can't copy anything not from a Servant.
>>3717506>>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)We need to talk to her about how to schedule the kidnappings.I also want some protection talisman for Ayaka, so when the inevitable betrayal of Niemand comes he will be surprised.
>>3718293It's not "represents" as in the way a politician represents his constituents. Adelheid is a personification of Germany as seen through the eyes of Hitler during the high-water mark of German success in WWII. That's the nation she represents.
>>3718346Dream Crusher EX before the 100th post.
>>3718358Well I still think it's a pretty great noble phantasm.
>>3718331He does have servant equivalent magical energy though so I'd rather slay him for the "upgrade point" then keep him around to be maybe brainwashed by the servant we don't currently have with us into maybe making some swords we don't actually need right now.
>>3718366Time to name our empire "Germany as seen through the eyes of Hitler during the high-water mark of German success in WWII"Checkmate, Dreamcrusher.
>>3718366It's really fukken neato. Not op, but thematically additive.>>3718372Alberich & co roleplaying as moon-nazis returning to inherit the earth is a major win in my book.
>>3718372Real question: Would it be worth it?Imagine ruling over the nation people abbreviate as FASTTEOHDTHMOGSIW for all eternity.
>>3718324>Brainwashing makes everyone reliable.I agree. That said to reliably brainwash a magi or a servant we would need Circe and we still haven't found her.Meaning we would need them to wait like sheep for us to do that to them and I really don't think it's wise to depend on nothing happening in that time.
>>3718383>Typo'd!GASTTEOHDTHMOGSIW, I meant.
>>3718385That's why I want them out of the city.Shirou and Rider can't really operate outside of Sakura's range. They are too useful.>>3718369It's wasteful though.Might not work either.If it does work that way, even more of a reason to keep Sakura and Co. alive and brainwashed. Infinite power-ups by putting people into puppet bodies and empowering them massively with a magical energy surplus.
>>3718407>That's why I want them out of the city.So you want to leave them with a shit ton of energy (Sakura), outside of our sight, with a reason for stopping us and someone pretty skilled in magic with connections (Rin) and expect them not to do something to screw us over?
>>3718422As I mentioned last thread, Rin can't do shit with her connections.She tries anything too obvious and it's a full on Church vs Mage Association war.
>>3718431She can talk with Zelretch who wanted her to stop this in the first place. Shirou definitely wouldn't want her to sit by while the grail war completes.And you also ignored how Rin is still a competent magi and Sakura a huge walking mana supplier. You are literally giving a caster time to prepare and choose when to attack.
>>3718436>comparing Rin to a Casterlol.We can have Tsubaki scry on them whenever we want. If they plan against us even after being shown our mercy then we can kill the children in front of them.If Zelretch actually gave a shit, there's nothing we could do.He's likely observing everything anyway.He's bullshit like that.
>>3718442>We can have Tsubaki scry on them whenever we want. If they plan against us even after being shown our mercy then we can kill the children in front of them.Yes, because Tsubaki has nothing better to do than to babysit them. We couldn't possibly use her abilities to help with Lancer, Archer or Saber.>If Zelretch actually gave a shit, there's nothing we could do.Not until after the war. And unless he keeps really close taps on her which I doubt the only way he will notice anything is if anyone like Rin tell him something is off or Rin fails to show up after the grail war.
>>3718456Anon.It's a grail war, the thing he helped design and takes personal interest in due to the whole Root thing.Iirc he's literally observing the war of Strange Fake.We don't have to babysit them either, just scry them once or twice a day.
>>3718442>hubrisfagging this hard
Zelretch and his incredibly vague powers have become my least favorite part of the Nasuverse since I started writing this quest.
>>3718472>Third True Magic>manifest the soul, perpetual energy maybe and immortality maybe?>Second True Magic >literally fucking do anything, magical girls lmaoThanks for never explaining one of the most important figures in your setting, Nasu.
>>3718442>>comparing Rin to a Caster>lol.Not capital c caster but still. You give a spell caster time to prepare and a huge supply of mana and you are really asking for trouble.And even then they could still aid some of the other masters against us.>>3718469And hope we get them at the exact moment we need to see all their plans? We have other masters to worry about and even if they plan against us what are we gonna do? Leave the grail war and take care of it?
>>3718490You shouldn't overestimate the threat our enemies represent. Especially when they dead end so often.We can additionally give them a reason to leave by informing the organiser of their presence and getting the entire remaining war sent after them.
Wait, I take it back. Zelretch is irritating, but my real least favorite thing is the Fourth Sorcery. Take a gander at the entry in CM3:>Fourth Sorcery>Like the First Sorcery, the details of the Fourth are unknown. Its function is also not spoken of. But, the currently existing Sorcerers would all acknowledge the Fourth's existence and agree that "it definitely exists." Nobody knows the name of the user, either.
>>3718442The real issue here is that the only real benifit of keeping them alive relies on them playing along for an indeterminate amount of time which creates a risk far disproportionate to the potential gain (which is currently unobtainable anyway). Killing the emiyas nets us a large amount of magical energy and eliminates them as a threat. The gain is much more concrete.
>>3718498And you shouldn't underestimate them so blatantly. They are no Berserker but ignoring them and leaving them out of our reach because they don't represent any threat is just asking for trouble.And informing the organiser? For what purpose if they come back they are obviously not sending a nice letter to every master informing them that now is the time to group up and defeat them.
>>3718517Why does Nasu give so little fucks about the magic that drives the entire plot because of how important it is?
>>3718521>relies on them playing along for an indeterminate amount of timeEven in the unlikely case they should play along, they also need to come back when we find Circe. Otherwise we gain nothing.
>>3718521Killing the Emiyas also earns us the ire of our two... uh... Dead End Advisors.Luvia might not appreciate Rin being murdered.Zelretch might or might not maybe do something maybe.And if all you care for is magical energy then we can just crash a train or kill Lily.
>>3718530Dude, Types and Grand Servants yo. Look at EMIYA of EMIYA of EMIYA. >>3718537>Crash a trainBut we can't drive trains bro.>Kill LilyAbominable, and locks us out of immortality in any case.
>>3718530I want to say it's because he's a hack. It's a really tempting explanation.I won't say that.It's because of the property of Mystery. Due to the limited Mystery in the world after the end of the Age of Gods, magic becomes weaker and weaker as more is known about it. This is at its most blatant with the "magic to create a gold bar" metaphor Rin uses in the prologue, but it manifests throughout magus society. It stands to reason that the Sorcerers, who command the most powerful magic of all; that is to say, Sorcery; would take great pains to ensure it remains totally secret.It's still very unsatisfying as someone trying to write in the universe, though. I guess this just gives me license to write the Fourth myself.
>>3718532We plan to incarnate alongwith our allies, anon. Distance won't save them.
>>3718537>And if all you care for is magical energy then we can just crash a train or kill Lily.Yes, because killing the person we absolutely need to use the grail is comparable to pissing of Luvia, we never met.
>>3718498You are tripping out on some Saturday morning cartoon hubris man. Are you really going to underestimate a plucky team of heros pushed to the edge to save their family? I bet you build arenas that contain your only weakness. I bet you put giant off buttons on your robots. I bet you build your fortresses with easily traversed spike pits and platforms. I bet you fill your dungeon chests with health potions. I bet you monologue in a tactically disadvantageous manner. I bet you send your superpowered goons to attack people one at a time.
>>3718550Are you seriously just casually assuming we already have won the grail war?Okay let's assume we already incarnated with the third magic and now have infinite mana with which we can call on the power of gods. Why exactly do we need the Emiyas again?
>>3718544>need to drive a train to put a big rock in front of a train and order Tsubaki to use the Akeldama Derivative. Huh...?>killing Lily locks us out of immortality Does it though?Circe can allow us to live indefinitely.Sakura can function as a grail.
>>3718558>incarnated with infinite mana?????>>3718551We can still crash trains for mana.
>>3718559>Circe can allow us to live indefinitely.Pretty sure she can't. But out of curiosity. How would she do that?>Sakura can function as a grail.Great now we just need someone like Lily who can use the grail.
>>3718544>Crash a train>But we can't drive trains bro.What part of suplex do you not understand?
>>3718559Ah, so you just want to replace legit immortality with the half-assed thing the Emiyas are doing. Ok. Seems like we're really going out of our way to not murder the Emiyas here...
>>3718566>?????Third magic. Ring any bells?
>>3718569>Shamelessly stealing from Maverick Hunter QuestWow Sweets, I would consider this kind of Plagiarism beneath you. Sad!
>>3718569The part where we aren't Sabin.
>>3718576>Shamelessly stealing from Maverick Hunter QuestFrom what now?
>>3718557Anon, I'm not suggesting we kidnap anyone.In suggesting we threaten them so they fuck off by saying we have Caster in position to kill Sakura. If they don't want to take the chance they are given then they all die. You guys don't think you'll just be able to get away with murdering Rin, Rider and Shirou and not expect Sakura to go fucking berserk, right?
>>3718581We literally suplexed a train. Admittedly, this was to save lives rather than end them, but such is the way of these things.
>>3718558I'm telling you man. He's a completely unreasonable hubrisfag. He's probably going to say that we should fight all the remaining servants at once when we're done with the coming clusterfuck.
>>3718589Well, FFVI is pretty popular.
>>3718571No anon, Sakura can literally function as a grail.Not as a mana supply.Don't be dumb.
>>3718590>Alberich after eating Niemand, Achilles, Medusa, and Shirouversus>Worst Saber, Lancer, Archer
>>3718594Bold of you to assume we would get the inputs in time.
>>3718595As a legit one? I thought that she was a highly functional but still insufficient copy. Even so, I don't like it.
>>3718595So we have a grail that at worst hates us and at best is indifferent. And we still lack the knowledge to use it without Lily.
>>3718594I've never played any Final Fantasy, so there's that.
>>3718608Lily who we're lying to and could be told at any time.Your arguments are that you consider short term benefits (power up points) superior to long term benefits (large bank of information about the Mage Association, Noble Phantasms, expendable servant, mana reservoir). I disagree with you and you won't change my mind.
>>3718600Damn it Icarus!
>>3718600You forgot that we have 3 allies sonewhere lying around as well as Tsubaki.
>>3718643I was just stating the most hype situation. On one hand, yay! A battle where Honor of the Rear Guard gets it's fullest potential extracted! On the other hand, shit this is such a bad situation.
Also narratively I think it's more fun at least to leave Shirou alive long enough to realize we're actually evil.Killing everyone immediately is kinda getting tiring.Who else could we possibly make the how many breads quip to?Saber? Don't make me laugh.
>>3718691That's a pretty compelling reason desu. Hopefully TACTICAL MONOLOGGING and good old protaganist bullshit can prolong the final battle enough to get some peak HF-climax feels
>>3718628>Was it right to question the situation, and dash Liliesviel's hopes of a new ally in the Heaven's Feel? Was it proper to trust in this uncertain figure and become vulnerable to betrayal? Neither truly seemed appropriate.You mean the Lily who was already told that we aren't who we pretend to be and who, even after barely knowing us, happily made up excuses to keep believing us to be her older brother?Somehow I doubt she would be easier to convince that we should die now after we have spent some time with her.>Your arguments are that you consider short term benefits (power up points) superior to long term benefitsAnd no. My argument is that your long term benefits will never manifest, because we will die to short term threats long before that.And even when we take into account that as a quest it's very unlikely for us to not win then they still won't manifest because this quest ends with the grail war.
>>3718704But then again, not having overly-dramatic final battles could be a pretty neat element of th Sweets-Nasu 'verse. Small joys piling up like the heads of Alberich's enemies, rather than bombastic but singular scenes.
>>3718717>what is Arc 3Anon...Plan for the future.
>>3718727Arc three is as mysterious as the fourth magic right now.
>>3718727In arc three we would have the third magic aka the perpetuum mobile. We would be immortal in the truest sense of the word.At that point the power the Emiyas give us would be irrelevant.
>>3718720I don't know, merely triumphing over Saber or Archer or Lancer in our final battle will just feel hollow and easy.Now a final battle against Shirou actually using a bow AND Saber, that would be both difficult and fun. Killing everyone immediately has grown boring, honestly.
>>3718754>assuming we'll get immortality and infinite mana even though Shirou, a product of the third magic, doesn't have any of that and needs Sakura's manaAdditionally if you suggest learning it ourselves, that's decades worth of learning.
>>3718755>Killing everyone immediately has grown boring, honestlyEven with a billion powerups I imagine Saber and/or Lancer (no way we don't get Archer before those two) will be tough customers. I can't sympathize here. I have no doubts whatsoever that as long as we get a proper fight it will be just as cathartic as all the other times Alberich has brutally murdered someone.
>>3718760Yeah, I'm pretty sure Shirou wasn't properly made immortal by the third magic. Revived yes, but not made immortal.
>>3718762Saber should be possible to beat right now even with only the sword power up, honestly. We'd have a chance at least.
>>3718773Instinct is a powerful meme anon.
>>3718785So is cutting Harris in half by purposely lining up a slash to kill him when she dodges it.She also can't really be aggressive in a fight against a sword she can't parry.
>>3718768If the third magic truly makes you immortal, how did the Einzbern lose it?
>>3718801Maybe, but if getting it immediately gets us counterforced I don't fucking want it.
>>3718797Who the fuck knows? Maybe they got thrown out of the world into the reverse side?They thought summoning a god of evil was a good idea I wouldn't be surprised that if they thought they have nothing to lose by being immortal they would try even stupider shit.
>>3718814"Hey I'm immortal. why shouldn't I see how the root looks from the inside? I can't die after all."
>>3718820>>3718814>When you lose a sorcery because of magi being retarded and are too retarded to get it backBased Austrians at it again.
>>3718833Are we sure they're Austrian magi and not Australian magi?
Imagine though. Shirou's reaction to *SUSPICIOUS TRAIN CRASH* would be so great.He'd be so angry.It would be great.Tactical monologuing will be fun so we should do that anyway.>Saber just goes on a long tangent about honor and dreams and shit before stabbing an old man halfway through the word "betrayal"
>>3718859For a man with terrible ideas you sure know everything I love in a terrible idea. Fuck it. Supervillain time.
>>3718859Rin and Medusa would give him so much shit for trusting a servant that looks like Alberich too. Assuming they don't die before the reveal of course.
>>3718927Albreich has a very trustworthy face.
>>3718947His fashion choices scream of an honest and upright morality
The brainwash plan might be risky, but claiming "too risky" as the sole reason behind not doing something would disappoint Adelheid, because come on.Circe too, actually, but to a lesser extent. Alberich is the same guy who once followed a pretty singing voice into the street where the only people at all outside would want him dead, so I'm pretty sure his self-preservation instinct for "this could in fact a bad plan" might be a little bit broken regardless.Not saying this plan is THAT bad though, considering it actually has actual benefits other than "small chance of not dying" (we apparently really wanted to meet a German loli)We can checkmate Emiya's faction without actually having to directly kill any of them (yet), to show our strategic superiority and how out of his depth he really is, how he could never save anyone if he can't even protect his own family etc.Also we can laugh at them like a fucking lunatic to their faces, we haven't actually gotten the opportunity to properly do that yet to anyone and it upsets me.How could we ever match Goldy in Pride if we never laugh at our helpless opponents and leave them to cope with what the fuck just happened?I still can't believe we survived coffee with Berserker though.>>3718927Jesus, they'd tear him apart for being so fucking dense. The "I told you so you fucking idiot." would be unreal.
>>3718952What's the actual benefit to leaving them alive?
>>3718952Alberich was a master of witty improv back when we had dice. Never understimate a hero's guile!>Actually wanting to emulate GilGilgamesh is iconic, but is also a fucking idiot who you should never seek to be like in any way. He's the kind of guy who snatches defeat from the jaws of victory with a 100% success rate. You always crush your enemies when possible.
>>3718960>benefit of leaving them aliveWell, we'll eventually have access to a very powerful Caster with the ability to both mind control them and read their minds.Rin for example would have a lot of info on the Mage Association, considering we'll likely be dealing with them after the war, counter measures will need to be developed.>>3718962>not wanting to laugh at your enemies after defeating themIn this scenario we've already crushed them, if they make a move against us we give Tsubaki the signal and Rider and Shirou die.
>>3718981Oh, I had an idea.We should ask Tsubaki if she can create a bounded field that prevents any magical energy from leaving it, temporarily blocking their link to her.That ought to spook them out.
>>3718948Not to mention that his armor serves as a proclamation to all that witness him that he is a paragon of truth and justice.
>>3718952>Alberich is the same guy who once followed a pretty singing voice into the street where the only people at all outside would want him dead, so I'm pretty sure his self-preservation instinct for "this could in fact a bad plan" might be a little bit broken regardless.>Not saying this plan is THAT bad though, considering it actually has actual benefits other than "small chance of not dying" (we apparently really wanted to meet a German loli)That's it! I was trying to remember exactly which decision it was that put you on the "Alberich is a lolicon" route, because I remembered there being a specific choice you made that confirmed it. That was the one.
>>3719006YeahYeah that's fair.
>>3719006Kind of a reach there.
>>3719013In what way?It was a genuinely dumb decision made by Alberich because of Adelheid's singing voice.He liked it so much he actually acted against his own interests (not being fucking brutally murdered).
>>3719021Hold on, did Alberich unironically fall for Adelheid upon hearing her voice?
>>3719109It wasn't quite that simple. It's more that, that decision demonstrated that Alberich had the potential to fall for Adelheid, and then her in-person charisma worked on him.>>3719013The word route is important. Stopping Saber doesn't put Shirou on the Rin Route because it proves that he's in love with her right then and there; it just pushes events in that direction. Same kind of situation here.
>>3719109Charisma: A is one hell of a drug. Adelheid defined Aberich's entire sexuality just by singing.
>>3719145Kinda seems like cherrypicking a small choice and making it more significant than it really is. How about our dedication to Circe and our constant support of Ayaka?
>>3719173>cherrypicking a small choice>walking into certain death because "pretty noise" and surviving because you got along incredibly well with them is a "small choice".Of everyone he's ever met, Alberich has had the most meaningful conversations with Adelheid.She also has Charisma: A.Alberich is also in love with Circe. Obviously.Our constant support of Ayaka doesn't mean much in the long run compared to our servants.Circe and Adelheid literally enabled him to feel emotions.
>>3719209It's going to be neat to see how Alberich and his ex-servants interact now that he doesn't have to fear an instant and brutal death if he displeases either of them too much.
>>3719249>he doesn't have to fear an instant and brutal death if he displeases either of them too much.He would still have to worry about getting brutalized by Adelheid or polymorphed by Circe.
>>3719269Not after we eat Seibah, Lancer, Archer, Berserker, Neimand, Shirou, Medusa, and Sakura
>>3719173>our dedication to Circe...has also steered Alberich's preferences in that direction, yes. Like I said above, things could've gone differently if you'd summoned a Servant with a different body-type.Ayaka hasn't really made as much of an impact on Alberich as either Circe or Adelheid did. There's something there, but it's definitely not on the same level.As for cherrypicking a small choice and making it important, I'm not sure what you mean. The decision to venture out of the garden was one event that lead to a succession of further events. It demonstrated that Alberich had been affected enough by his first sight of Adelheid to want to follow her voice, even when he knew it would be dangerous to do so; and it led to a conversation that made a profound impact on him.
>>3719297*led to a succession. Goddamn habitual typing.
>>3719249It ought to be something, that's for sure.I doubt Circe was expecting it to be this quick when she said "you could even become a hero".There's some sort of parallel with Ayaka feeling inferior to the German Loli that you could probably make, which is fun.>>3719269I mean, it wouldn't be an instant death and they would actually have to try, which could result in them actually losing.>>3719282>Shirou, Medusa and SakuraAnon you stop that.Sword Autist is far more useful as a projection wand. Medusa is a maybe, but she could be useful in the right situation and the more servants Lily takes in the closer she becomes to going full Cup.Sakura doesn't deserve this (and is far more useful as a mana battery for drawing mana for our masterless servants out of)
>>3719302This discussion reminds me, why is Volksgemeinschaft a C-Rank NP? It's versatility and power would imply a B or (pushing here) A rank to me.
>>3718797The only guy who knew it died before he could train anybody. The Einzberns panicked, make Acht, gave him all their knowledge and told him to recreate it. His only success was Justizia, who was crammed into the Grail after they finished it.or so wiki says
>>3719249Honestly I'm more interested in how they'll interact when they aren't involved in a magical deathmatch.
>>3719361>immortal>dieI... I see.
>>3719356Rank is decided by the potency of the Mystery and the pure destructive force which is why Gae Bolg is rated at a maximum of B++ (curse, thrust, throw). Volksgemeinschaft can be summed up as "be strong and fast, make big booms", so it's ranked at C. Although in that case it should be something like E~B?
>>3719369Magus Autism knows no bounds anon.
>>3719368They seemed to get along somewhat when they had a common interest.Calling modern magi fucking losers.
>>3719369maybe he was killed by alaya
>>3719390Or maybe the whole "immortality" thing is actually bullshit.
>>3719382They also were fairly civil when discussing architecture and philosophy
>>3719396Maybe it just makes the soul immortal? Anyone not a spiritual entity would still have a lot of trouble if their body died.Or they had a power trip and pissed off someone really powerful like Alaya, Gaia, etc who killed them or another magi family wanted to mess with them and he's not really died but is just lost, imprisoned, etc.There are a lot of ways that don't assume that the Einzberns don't know what their own magic does.
>>3719422Mahoyo says Alaya sends a red shadow after people who get magic because it's a transgression of humanity's limits. Aoko was attacked as well.So that explains it.
>>3719422I mean, let's not pretend they might not just be lying to everyone about it.AnywayAfter seeing how the doublecross superbackstab goes.Should we actually initiate the Train Plan?My reasons for wanting to keep the Emiyas alive are half because mind controlling them would be great but I do want a cool confrontation with Shirou rather than him getting instantly destroyed with a backstab. Failed fake modern hero vs true modem hero, you know?
>>3719461If only we actually had a way to mind control them. We've still done absolutely nothing to find Circe or Adelheid.
>>3719469Honestly we should get to working on that. Like. As soon as possible.They might need our help, and without them we can't plan as effectively, relying on maybes and what-ifs.No idea why Circe wouldn't reach out to us.Hmm.
>>3719461>Should we actually initiate the Train Plan?Too unsustainable. I've been saying this far too many times, but it's better to find hedge-mages in Tokyo and make batteries out of them. Jean said in thread 1 that there were 16 families within his jurisdiction alone.
>>3719496I mean as a way to actually empower us or Tsubaki instead of just sustaining her.
>>3719496I read that as hedge mazes and thought you were suggesting that we should create bounded fields to drain energy from popular hedge mazes.
>>3719510I'm... still ambivalent about that. It would be a lot more obvious than killing a Servant or even a powerful human like Shirou.
>>3719356Two reasons: first, it uses mundane weaponry. Adelheid's nature as a Servant gives it some mystery, but even so it's rather low-ranked. If she had to fight an enemy with very high mystery, like Herakles, she'd be in trouble.Second, because of it's massive drawback of utterly destroying the user's original ego. The NP overwrites the identity of the heroic spirit with its own identity.
>>3719533This, however, is genius. we could unironically have tsubaki set up a bounded field to leech small amounts of magical energy from people as they go through a hedge maze and harvest every so often
>>3719546Sure but fuck it, what are they gonna do? Attack Caster's base with a Saber as it's guard?Just realisedThis is OOC knowledge, but Shirou represents a way out of the worst case scenario. Should any of our allies be contracted to an enemy Master. Then there's a single Noble Phantasm that will allow us to turn things around.Rule Breaker.
>>3719549The latter element I suppose nerfed it, but it's a shame it's mundanity renders it so... impotent against higher heroic spirits.
>>3719565We can't get it unless we brainwash Shirou because it's a property of UBW, making it a long shot.
>>3719553It actually works well because people will be stuck in the maze for long enough to get a decent amount of energy but there's still enough circulation of new people that they wouldn't observe any long term issues from energy drain. If we set up at a good one, we could be able to skim off the top of hundreds of people with little to no chance of detection.
>>3719582Sure, but it's still a reminder of just how useful the stupid asshole can be.He's got an unbelievable amount of utility.
>>3719586>little to no chance of detectionWell, magi can detect it.The good news is that one of the two people who would have to investigate it is on our side. The bad news is that the other one is Antaglio.
Energy gathering plans >kidnap people and turn them into batteries>mass sacrifice for huge amounts of energy >hedge mazes in tokyoOne of these plans is not like the other
>>3719605Mass sacrifice is so wasteful and inefficient desu. Both hedge-mazes and human batteries are reliable and renewable!
>>3719605Yeah, only one of them will actually empower you.
>>3719609Hedge Mazes it is!
>>3719609Hedge Mazes: A powersource to surpass the third sorcery.
>>3719605Don't forget turning Sakura into a magical object
>>3719624What about turning Sakura into a hedge maze? That'd be the ultimate battery.
>>3719629>Terrifying red and black worm hedge maze that leaks absurd amounts of magical energyIsn't there a dead apostle like this? The living forest? Nightmare fuel yo.
>>3719629How do you like that Shirou?! I TURNED YOUR WIFE INTO A MAZE YOU IDIOT!
Honestly, how many will die when we bring the age of Gods back? Around 6 or 7 billion or so people, I would wager. Can't imagine the Gods wouldn't take the opportunity not to cut the world population below a billion.What's a few thousand unremarkable people to that?The Emiyas are exceptional. To sacrifice such magical oddities for their energy is just too wasteful when we could accomplish so much more by utilising their abilities to our advantage. Even if they might originally oppose us, it's not like that will remain a problem with the correct use of mental manipulation. Circe must be found as soon as possible.
>>3719633The Forest of Einnashe, named after the DAA it used to be.Odds are it was cleaned up by Counter Guardians, luckily.
>>3719638Additionally, a catastrophic train crash/tunnel collapse killing like 800 people in Japan wouldn't be picked up on by most magi, who are retards.Zelretch's apprentice dying however would be quite the topic of conversation.The only ones we have to fear about killing innocents are the organizers. If we lock down the Emiyas.If we make the mass sacrifice look like a tunnel collapse after we're done, nobody could investigate it easily either.
>>3719680And if we disguise the tunnel collapse with a hedge maze...
>>3719680>a catastrophic train crash/tunnel collapse killing like 800 people in Japan wouldn't be picked up on by most magi, who are retardsAntaglio or someone else could pick up traces of our magical energy and then they'd be forced to investigate.While they can't harm us directly it would still reveal our existence to the moonlit world before we're ready for a serious campaign.>Zelretch's apprentice dying however would be quite the topic of conversation.More directly dangerous.
>>3719696Perfect!It'll form a perfect defensive perimeter!They'll never even realise hundreds of people were killed without remorse!I can't believe a few threads ago I was upset Tsubaki had taken to eating people to survive and now here I am planning a mass killing.
>>3719711I mean, you'd think so, but the majority of magi don't care about Japan at all.Nobody cared about the Fuyuki fire.
>>3719713>I can't believe a few threads ago I was upset Tsubaki had taken to eating people to survive and now here I am planning a mass killing.All because ye ain't got the guts ta murder a man, his sister-law, and his servant while making his wife and children into batteries. For shame man.
>>3719722(((Einzbern))) influence at work.
>>3719713I love how this war is not only going to have over three times the casualties of the Fuyuki fire but also much more insidious. Rather than a giant swathe of destruction over 1700 people are going to mysteriously disappear without a trace in the span of a week. Neutral evil is one hell of a drug.
>>3719729It's a waste to kill them though.I made my point perfectly clear.Why would you melt down priceless golden artifacts if you were surronded by gold nuggets?
>>3719729I'm sorry to say, the man's got a point the emiyas still have a part to play in this story. Also, I don't really want to keep looking at everything from a risk management perspective. That is playing to lose and real boring.
>>3719759>He doesn't trust sweets to keep the quest compelling even as we OPTIMIZE it>He feels compelled to force plot rather than allow it to be generated naturally
>>3719762>he wants to eliminate every single potential threat immediately because he's afraid of everyone for some reason
>>3719762>not wanting to be a supervillain>not wanting to break your enemies and take all they are from them>not erasing all traces of your existence with strategically placed hedge mazes
>>3718948Not sure if I asked this in the thread it was first posted to, but is this an edit or original art? It really looks excellent.
>>3719774When you plan to dominate the moonlit and eventually mundane worlds, you damn well better be a paranoid fuck. Also, we have the convenience of becoming directly empowered (with sufficient preparation) when killing powerful magical entities.
>>3719780I have absolutely no idea, not the original poster of it. Sorry Sweets.
>>3719780I believe it was an edit.We haven't had many edits recently.
>>3719785>We haven't had many edits recently.A saddening fact. Hope I haven't lost the interest of the anons who were making them.
>>3719781>being paranoid about those inferior to youWary? Perhaps. Paranoid? Please. You're going about this in such a boring way.
>>3719785chaotic evilceditanon is here to fix this situation
>>3719796What have I done?
>>3719794I haven't had any inspiration for shitty meme edits as of late.>>3719795Part of the beauty of the Nasuverse is that even if you're an immensely powerful god-king there's bound to be an autist hiding under a rock who'll fuck up even your most carefully laid plans. Running around like an immensely prideful headless chicken will do you no good at all.
>>3719798Well, you touched yourself at night
>>3719781We also have the convenience of being empowered by killing the mundane, thanks to our sister. There's no reason to slaughter those you can control.>>3719802You say that but you forget how often those autists dead end.
>>3719805I maintain that the cost-benefit of slaughtering the masses is in the red at this point. Killing servants and the Emiyas is infinitely more time-efficient, less likely to be interfered with by a meddling magus or sorcerer, and yields nice little conceptual goodies. Mass murder is fit for a God Emperor, not a fledgling Hero.
>>3719802Yeah but all those autists had savestates and plot contrivences to carry them to victory. In this situation every Emiya is just one misstep away from a permanent dead end.
>>3719805Also, I forgot to add the obvious point. There's no dead ends if you DONT FUCKING KILL THEM
>>3719811I can't believe you're being so foolish as to turn down Train Plan just because you want to kill the Emiyas. Why, even?If they are telling the truth (they are) then we're just murdering people for the sake of it, when we could gain any positives from killing them from murdering lots of unimportant people.
>>3719831>no dead ends if you don't kill themRead the VN lmao.
>>3719811All this talk about human sacrifice has made me realize how efficient the Akeldama was at being a human suffering powered generator. It only took the lives of 1046 humans but through clever manipulation of the artificial world it was able to bait and exploit heroic spirits to create three powerful conceptual entities with the relatively tiny sacrifice of a mere 1046 humans.
>>3719831>There's no dead ends if you DONT FUCKING KILL THEM
>>3719841Judas is pretty tricky, would you believe it?
>>3719854You think he might have done something like this before?
>>3719857It's doubtful. The Grail could only summon Good-aligned heroes before Manchild got into it and there are very few problems solved by summoning Judas that couldn't be dealt with by someone else.
>>3719841Judas was a great dad if you think about it
>>3719857I imagine he might have some experience in the field.Honestly, I do feel like it would be a waste if Shirou and Saber didn't meet again. All that potential narrative payoff dropped for an easy kill on a guy who manages to die against just about anything even with passive regeneration.
>>3719860It was more in reference to the mission given to Judas Iscariot in the gnostic gospel as confirmed by Judas himself a few threads ago.
>>3719875Hmm, he might've understood some principles of hero-making.
Oh no.I've been taken by the sudden urge to want to kill Saber halfway through her meeting Shirou again.Altering seems unlikely any time soon because we've done no training on our training day
>>3719903Good anon... good...
>>3719903We always have 60 years to try again. If we get the Third we can work with Circe to recreate the Grail as a mystic code and call down heroes to farm.
>>3719918I still don't really want to kill Shirou.He's a good boy.He's just trying to live a quiet life.
>>3719937>He's a good boy.>He's just trying to live a quiet life.Irrelevant to Alberich.
>>3719945I dont know anon, I feel like guilt tripping Shirou into getting involved and then killing him for getting involved would make Alberich kind of a prick.He's a useful asset who is easy to predict, regardless.
As you pull to a stop in the manor's garage, Ayaka hurriedly gets up and leaves the car, rushing into the house. You thought you'd made it through her emotional crisis, but it seems she still wants to be alone for a while. You can't exactly blame her, after all the stress she's been through since you appeared, but it does get rather tiresome reassuring her over and over again. As you sit in the car, soaking in the garage's silence, it occurs to you that this is practically the first moment you've had to yourself all day. You've been doing nothing but talking, planning, and discussing plans, you feel. You know you should go upstairs now, find Kōrakuhime, and explain what you've discussed with Liliesviel to her; and yet, you find yourself wanting to just put that off. You could study magic in the Shijou library, or experiment with Heiligöffnungschwert in Vaisset's workshop; that would still be productive, and you'd be getting some time to yourself.No, you shake the notion off. Your life depends on every part of the Holy Grail War being executed perfectly, and that includes communication with your sister as well as diplomacy and providing emotional support for your insecure Master. You'll find time to be alone at some point, but now isn't the right moment. So, resigning yourself to another discussion with a temperamental female, you get out of the car and make your way back into the manor. Hopefully Kōrakuhime has been watching your conference with Liliesviel by scrying; that would speed things up nicely.No such luck. After looking around for a while, you find your sister in the same bed as this morning, fast asleep. Apparently, she decided that the best thing to do with her day was nap. You take a seat beside the unconscious girl's bed and take her by the shoulder, shaking her awake. At least she's clothed this time, so there's no need to fear a repeat of this morning's embarrassed outburst. She sits up slowly, as if she has to make her way through some amorphous barrier to get to an upright posture, and then turns to blink blearily at you."Ani-ue," she says, gradually coming back to consciousness as you watch. "How did... your meeting with... the Einzbern Master go?""Well, thank you," you answer. If she didn't see it, there's no reason to inform Kōrakuhime of the unfortunate moment between Liliesviel and Ayaka. "We have decided to form an alliance and work together to obtain the Third Sorcery. To that end, we have decided to first eliminate Emiya, as he poses a threat to the Holy Grail War as a whole.""Fuwa~h" Kōrakuhime reaches her arms over her head, stretching like a cat as she lets out a languorous yawn. "That's... sensible," she says. "How are you... going to go about it?"
"Tonight, I'll return to the Emiya residence with Miss Ayaka," you begin. "We'll propose that we all head out once more to hunt the rogue Servant that's been slaughtering the innocent people of Tokyo." In a sudden burst of irritation at the girl who's been lazily sleeping the day away, you shoot out a hand and grab her tightly by the chin, pulling her face close to yours and grinning cruelly down at her. "That would be you, dear sister. Maybe I should tell them where you really are, to improve the verisimilitude!" As her eyes widen in sudden shock and fear, you let the malice drop from your expression, turning it into a gentle smile. "Don't worry, I don't really intend to betray you," you say with a chuckle. "We're going to use the same method as last night, and presumably the Master of Berserker will once again appear to challenge us. That's when Liliesviel and her Servant will join us; first we'll do away with Berserker, and then with Emiya's band.""Then what about... my energy supply," Kōrakuhime says softly, and at this distance you can feel her hot breath on your face as she speaks. You can see every detail of her in perfect clarity: the total smoothness of her inhuman, skin, the shape of every midnight-black eyelash, the way her blood-red lips play over the sharp white teeth. You snap back into focus; she's still talking. "I thought we would... find some humans for me tonight, together," she's saying. "If I don't have something, I'll... start to waste away... Ani-ue, you don't... understand...">[ ] "You'll just have to capture them yourself," you say. "I can't delay this." (Duty)>[ ] "You'll have to get your magical energy some other way tonight," you say. "Siphon some off of the leylines or something, but this takes precedence and there's a role I need you to play tonight." (Pride/Compassion)>[ ] Say something else (Write in)
Shorter update tonight than I've been doing, but I had to break for a choice in mid-scene. At least it's somewhat timely.
>>3719978>[ ] "You'll just have to capture them yourself," you say. "I can't delay this." (Duty)The other plans will just have to wait until afterward, and Tsubaki can hide well enough.
>>3719978>[ ] "You'll have to get your magical energy some other way tonight," you say. "Siphon some off of the leylines or something, but this takes precedence and there's a role I need you to play tonight." (Pride/Compassion)A role huh?Is the backstab plan forming?
>>3719978>You can see every detail of her in perfect clarity: the total smoothness of her inhuman, skin, the shape of every midnight-black eyelash, the way her blood-red lips play over the sharp white teeth.We need to find Circe and Adelheid soon before our hero goes astray and falls into terrible degeneracy.
>>3719994My human eating demon little sister can't be this cute!
>>3719994>inhuman COMMA skinWhy do I always miss these things?
>>3719978>[ ] "You'll have to get your magical energy some other way tonight," you say. "Siphon some off of the leylines or something, but this takes precedence and there's a role I need you to play tonight." (Pride/Compassion)They're putting oni in the leylines that turn the damn magi gay!
Ah yes, I don't think our sister actually understands how little of a shit we give about collateral damage.Fuck the mundanes.And it's possible the double cross plan will actually work.I guess in character it will have to be a spur of the moment thing though. To avoid getting wrecked by Niemand.Also Alberich seems to have held a grudge over that weakness curse.What a close relationship these two siblings have.
>>3719978>[ ] "You'll have to get your magical energy some other way tonight," you say. "Siphon some off of the leylines or something, but this takes precedence and there's a role I need you to play tonight." (Pride/Compassion)Kōrakuhime we have half of roster to kill tonight. Your diet can wait.
>>3720039Close is definitely the word.Also, your desire is pretty high now. Part of that is lashing out more easily.
>>3720039>Alberich holds a grudgeIn other news, Shirou thinks everything will be fine
>>3720056These emotions sure are annoying.
>>3720039Have you ever had a sibling before? This kind of thing is pretty much standard stuff.
>>3720067Y'know, the close attention to her beauty is not a thing I ever experienced with my siblings. That reminds me, another point for the Alberich-Humbert Humbert connection. Verbose, detailed descriptions of the "women" in their lives.
>>3720059Shirou is correct. Depending on your definition of "fine"...I don't want him dead, but if my plan works, I doubt he'll be OK emotionally.If we can't play both sides then we're going to kill the asshole preventing our fun.
>>3720073I was more focused on the constant threats of horrible death and betrayal. But siblings who first meet after puberty often become sexually attracted to eachother due to the fact that they haven't been exposed to eachother's pheromones earlier in life. Not speaking from personal experience on that last one.
>>3720129>Not speaking from personal experience on that last one.>
>>3720129The death threats are a symbol of their bond.Alberich wouldn't just make false threats towards anyone.No, he'd usually follow through.It's a special kind of relationship.
>>3720149There's a -dere like that, iirc.
>>3720164That was terrible and I'm sorry.
Oh right, Lily is coming along with us for the whole "kill the Emiyas." PlanMakes kidnap a bit easier, I suppose.Oh man, poor Shirou will have a stroke if he survives this.I wonder if the white haired, red eyed loli getting kidnapped will send him over the edge.
Alberich is actually a great sibling because he's helping his sister spend meaningful time out of the house so she can grow as a person and infect the depleted leylines with her demonic seed.
>>3720223>her>demonic seedanon what are you saying
>>3720223You know the problem with the leylines is just that she'd be drawing too much life out of the area, right, anon?There's nothing going from Caster into the leylines, it's a one-way draw.
>>3720246I was thinking of this line here from a couple threads ago, : "To sustain myself by Mana would... poison by my existence... all the inhabitants of this city."So I assumed was something else going on besides just cutting into the minimum amount of necessary magical energy.
>>3720276Doesn't she go into more detail about the mechanics of it in that paragraph, though?It has a poison-like effect, but she was just using flowery language.
We still need to deal with Tsubaki's energy needs at some point. I recommend that we create a hedge maze to contain a hedge mage so we can hedge our bets on preventing us from being detected from eating mundanes.
>>3719978>[ ] "You'll have to get your magical energy some other way tonight," you say. "Siphon some off of the leylines or something, but this takes precedence and there's a role I need you to play tonight." (Pride/Compassion)I hope she will understand the importance of this night.
>>3720292It wasn't that clear on the first reading because she only kinda implies that taking more than whatever "excess" there is that's being consumed by the Grail causes problems with the "wellness" of all life in Tokyo. That makes it so her metaphor is the only part that actually seems to explicitly describe what siphoning from the leylines would do, so it seems like she's saying that tapping into the leylines would release a literal poison into the energy of the city.
>>3720287But we saw her naked in bed this morning.
>>3720298If Tsubaki can construct bounded fields to drain excess magical energy, we could diversify by putting them up in places with lots of traffic like the underground railroads. There's no need to demand that people come to us when we can get much better results by going to them.Alternatively, we make a hedge maze out of the underground subway and crash trains whenever we're displeased.The moonlit world will bow down to the might of Tokyo Metro very s00n...
>>3720321We saw her back.
>>3720333Schrodinger's Dick strikes again.
>>3720341And also doesn't, until we observe the site of the presumed impact.
>>3720322I would not be surprised if we manage to get away with stealing energy from the entire metro system because mages don't know what trains are.
>>3720353We should take Rin to cinema and watch Arrival of a Train at La Ciotat with her.
>>3720358The moment when I knew exactly how fucked Rin's going to be was when we suggested a secure messaging app and she went on a tirade about how she doesn't know why people use phones and that it would be a much better idea to use rats. Honestly, you would think that magi would have learned their lesson about technology after the fourth war but here we are. I bet we could even do the crazy plane crash idea because mages don't read the news.
>>3720020>Lorelei is the global head of the dead apostle ancestors!>I know who Marisbury Animusphere is, he's the top eugenicist in the mages' association. He's going to replace us all with homunculi that he put servants in!Who is the Alex Jones of the moonlit world?
>>3719978>[ ] "You'll just have to capture them yourself," you say. "I can't delay this." (Duty)
>>3720364>"We should use phones.">"AAAAAARGH TECHNOLOGY IS THE DEVIL."Rin.Honestly, why do we care if people in the war notice our actions if we absorb Niemand and Berserker's power?We can happily smash a train to bits and if a servant comes along, free dessert!Shirou is way too easy to kill/lockdown so he's not really an issue. I'll also feel super bad if we kill Sakura. She's just too nice.And she can use the same type of magic as us.
>>3720606>We can happily smash a train to bits and if a servant comes along, free dessert!This is the part I don't want people to notice. We have much more efficient methods of gaining power and energy, Ayaka will object (and probably use her last Command Spell if we try to go ahead), and it will attract attention we don't want right now.It's a method more suited to Tsubaki's ritual NP than to Ayaka's ritual or plain old soul-eating.
>Saber trash talks Alberich for being duplicitous trash and not a real knight because of his cape>Alberich gets offended>a few days later starts to plot mass murder, kidnap, double betrayal and how best to humiliate her for revengeAlberich isn't very good at this whole knight thing. Having Saber see Shirou should give her an interesting quandry over loyalty considering she did swear an oath.Man, poor Rin doesn't know what she's got herself into, even after having survived HF.>>3720624>Tsubaki's ritual NP Yeah anon, that's the point of the train plan. To use the Akeldama NP in order to help power us up again and maybe Tsubaki too.No Ayaka neccessary that day.
>>3720624Also>have much more efficient methods of gaining power and energyDo we though?Sure we can kill the Emiyas for some powerups, and we can kill Servants, but thats it.Though having Ayaka target a human who's just trying to save people might be too much for her.Train plan is a sustainable source of energy.
>>3720633>saber-san, where did you and kourakuhime go today?>trainspotting, miss ayaka. trainspotting.>then you must've come across the train crash, a 1000 people died! you said you were trainspotting, did you find out who did it?>not at all. they must have slipped away before we could catch them
>>3720636>Do we though?What has all this talk of hedge mazes been for?>Train plan is a sustainable source of energy.lolno
>>3720645>lol noWhat's wrong with mass sacrifice?Gods did it all the time.Normalfags are good energy in large quantities, we can also Akeldama skyscrapers and fully booked hotels. Maybe a cruise ship too, that's like 3000 people right there. >>3720642>"It was that damn blue Saber! The same one responsible for your brother's death. Honestly I tried to stop her, but she was too fast."
>>3720653Now I've just got the mental image of the Emiya faction all in some house outside the city they rented/locked down in their own house switching through different TV channels with each reporting on a different major mysterious disappearance of 1000+ people
>>3720653>Gods did it all the time.Gods don't have to worry about unwanted attention from people who can and will assassinate Ayaka unless we watch her like a hawk.>Normalfags are good energy in large quantitiesYou'd probably need at least 10000 at one go to be worth organizing a catastrophe, and if you do it too often then everyone will notice the loose cannon going around and mass-murdering people. The Emiyas might even put aside their problems with the Einzberns to put us down, and FUCKING SABER will also show up with Harris to kill us.It's more sustainable and less alarming to passively scrape magical energy and avoid killing people.
>>3720669Judas only needed 1050 and some Servants for the original Akeldama, and he made 3 Servant level beings from nothing with that energyAyaka is fine, we can just have her stay at home under the protection of Caster's bounded fields.The Emiyas won't be an issue by this point, they'll be dead or locked down or will have fled the city.The Einzbern will be losing Niemand rather soon if all goes to plan.And I relish the idea of a rematch with Seibah when we're doing something fiendishly evil.Also, you don't seem to understand that this plan will actually empower us, and not just give us energy to sustain ourselves by passively scraping magical energy.It will also allow Tsubaki to strengthen herself and stop being so god damn useless too.
>>3720653>saber gets blamed for the actions of a mysterious red and black swordsmanThis is pretty much the plot of Sonic Adventure.
>>3720681"Faker? I think you're the fake Saber around here. You're comparing yourself to me..Ha! You're not even good enough to-" *Saber attacks with Mana Burst halfway through our speech*
>>3719978>[ ] "You'll have to get your magical energy some other way tonight," you say. "Siphon some off of the leylines or something, but this takes precedence and there's a role I need you to play tonight." (Pride/Compassion)
>>3720684>created to be ultimate lifeform/last hero>an assload of bullshit cool powers but loses and will probably still lose to the statstick with boring powers>black and red motif, rival has blue motif to design>might end the world>edgyHmm
>>3720678>Judas only neededJudas is pure EX-ranked bullshit.>this plan will actually empower usHow much?
>>3720701We won't know until we do it, but I would imagine at least around the same as a Servant sacrifice.It's derived from Akeldama and is A rank, so I would assume it's got around the same level of efficiency, Akeldama being EX rank mainly came from the fact that it occured in it's own created world where Judas was the overseer and could do shit like summon servants and occured in a single instant, I imagine.Man, Akeldama is so fucking spooky for all of the people that didn't come back.It's worth it just for the power up, every power-up either we or Tsubaki gets (or maybe both of us) (maybe she can get Witchcraft to A+ or A++) will make the next fight and subsequent power-up against an enemy servant that much easier.It's like a snowball effect.The stronger we become, the less that can stop usThe less that can stop us, the stronger we become.Don't you want to steamroll Saber?I mean, not literally.But maybe literally on Harris.>tfw reverse Messiah decides to turn "Feeding the 5000" into "Feeding the 5000 to my demon sister"oh gee thanks Judas, these are some real high quality heroes you've created for humanity.
>>3720718>Don't you want to steamroll Saber?I don't know, do I?
>>3720718>reverse MessiahThere's nothing reverse about this Messiah anon. We're going to save humanity from itself even if the vast majority of humans must die. Also, every other abrahamic religion besides the new testament of the Bible suggest that the Messiah will be a powerful millitary figure, rather than the human sacrifice Jesus was.
I remember something that was immensely dumb from FGO.Solomon/Romani claims that Medea's skill in magecraft is among the Top 5 in the World ever (which is silly all things considered with the amount of magic users in legend, but Ok).Circe is on the same level as/superior to Medea.If that still holds true here, then the Clock Tower shouldn't be as much of a threat at all.Hell, there are a shitload of statements from Nasu himself stating that Touko or Aoko would get dominated in a battle of magecraft (IDK if this includes True Magic for Aoko.) against her if she was serious (She was toying with Rin the entire time like a dipshit) Statement includes "all" modern magi so Lorelei is out too.The only threats would be True Magic, I would assume, but it's so fucking vague. Caster is capable of teleportation which is an imitation of true magic.Seriously though>Q: It has been said that a certain Aozaki cannot even defeat a serious Caster, is this "certain Aozaki" Aoko Aozaki? Is this an assessment based on Aoko using True Magic?>A: "A certain Aozaki" includes both Aoko and Touko. In a magecraft battle by modern standards, a "magus" who is capable of defeating a serious Caster does not exist.That doesn't even answer the fucking question about true magic you asshole.>>3720752Well ok then.Humanity will learn the errors of their ways through Hedge Train Mazes
>>3720774>That doesn't even answer the fucking question about true magic you asshole.The Fifth won't help Aoko much because she still doesn't know how to use it well.If Zelretch can be counted as #5 on the DAA list in his old age then he'd probably beat even a Caster because of the Kaleidoscope.
>>3720785He's actually much weaker than he was as a human after Crimson Moon gave him the succ.So god knows how that goes.Aoko can literally just cheat and become the future version of herself with the Fifth, too.True Magic is the vaguest shit.And seemingly not as good as HSDWs regardless if Aoko can't even beat Medea.Disregard True Magic, acquire fancy Greek spells.
>>3720795>He's actually much weaker than he was as a human after Crimson Moon gave him the succ.He's counted as #5 in that state.
>>3720816Oh, and he always has his friend Caubac who is almost a sorceror. Luckily for us that guy got trapped in his uncrackable treasure chest.
>>3720795I would say that HSDW is objectively better than true magic but that would require us having any information on what it actually is. That said, the ability to channel Od in any way you desire as easily as speaking is a lot more attractive than any vauge ability utilized through unknown means for unknown benifit. This is part of why we need to bring back the age of gods, everything is fucking stupid because people have been doing everything wrong for so long that you can't do shit without going through the most obtuse process imaginable and even then you end up with a total garbage result that gets even worse if anyone manages to decipher that absolutely retarded method you used to achieve it.
>>3720816I know.But the fact that his magic is weaker as a vampire than it is when he is a human should say something. Also I just think HSDWs are cooler than true magic. Having any sort of magic on that level though would just make Alberich absolutely bullshit overpowered.
>>3720834>But the fact that his magic is weaker as a vampire than it is when he is a human should say something.It says that we should hope the gods can keep Crimson Moon away.
>>3720846I thought Crimson Moon cannot exist in the same timeline(s) as stay/night. One of you guys talked about that before, right?
>>3720851I think that was the Moon Cell, which is a different but similarly named thing.
>>3720851Crimson Moon is... an odd case.It's the True Ancestors that don't exist in Fate timelines.I don't doubt that Crimson Moon could theoretically emerge if he sees that the Age of Gods has begun again and Zelretch is still weak. He wouldn't lose the rematch because now he knows the Second Magic exists.>>3720855The Moon Cell doesn't exist in Tsukihime timelines, yes. that or brunestud is using it to download alien porn
>>3720834>10 years later >world has started to revert to The Age of Gods >rogue magi rebelling against us still in a last ditch attempt set up a grail war with the intent to use the wish to stop us>Saber gets summoned again>gets the rundown on what the hell is going on>Alberich personally shows up>bullies Saber relentlessly >doesn't even draw his sword to fight her and just laughs
>>3720867That would be an amazing plot for part 3, but magic doesn't work that way
>>3720877You mean the reversion to the AoG or the grail?The reversion could be like a more rapid version of it's decay, but in reverse.The grail could be used to kill somebody with the magical energy collected, and at that point, the whole "secrecy" thing would be going out the window so a ten year setup wouldn't be impossible.Or if you mean fighting Saber, we could just teleport around.
>>3720889>You mean the reversion to the AoG or the grail?Both. The armies of the god-emperor are overrunning the moonlit world and the desperate magi are making one last gambit to save mankind and the world, staking everything on this last Grail War.Unfortunately, if we're the user of the Third then Justizia can't use it because each path to the Root is reserved for one person at a time, so the Grail will stop working.
>>3720905I mean if we go down the HSDWs route. HSDWs are superior to the Third, imo.
>>3720909>thirdcan summon heroic spirits>hsdwcan'tStill,>not learning both
>>3720909You still need the Third Sorcery to exist without the Grail, unless you have some other plan in mind.
>>3720920>>third>can summon heroic spiritsIt's a combination of the Second Magic and the Third Magic that does that.The Third alone likely can't reach the Throne.>>3720925Dipping in the contents of the grail seems to work.Getting the Third might be cool I suppose.
>>3720785>>3720816I made a mistake.Zelretch is #4; ORT is #5.
>>3720930>It's a combination of the Second Magic and the Third Magic that does that.Zelretch gave Nagato the design for the Jeweled Sword because he judged the Einzberns and Makiris to be evil, so there was really no chance he would give them any chance to study the Second. The Grail uses only the Third.
>>3720948Honestly, true magic is fucking vague so we don't know regardless.I'd prefer if we gave an ally the Third so that we didn't have to directly deal with the vague bullshit.Still, incarnate through their use of it though.I just think HSDWs is a better thing to have for direct combat. Third is better at specific stuff.Remember Medea was good enough to both fuck with summoning AND fuck with command spells.Only reason Sasaki was so messed up was because a Servant can't really summon Servants.
>>3720967>I'd prefer if we gave an ally the Third so that we didn't have to directly deal with the vague bullshit....>Remember Medea was good enough to both fuck with summoning AND fuck with command spells.That would be because the Grail wasn't protected. Command Spells are so easy to fuck with, even Kirei can do that. Magic isn't something you fuck with, it's something that breaks all the rules.You seem to have this odd hatred for the Third Magic, which is the only reason I can come up with for your reluctance to give Alberich unlimited power.
>>3720995I don't understand the reluctance to get the third magic either.
>>3720995>>3720998True Magic is excessively vague.It's not that I don't want infinite power because you don't actually get infinite power.You get potentially unlimited mana, maybe.It's just way too vague for me to want.You also get a huge target put on your back from Alaya.Also, bringing back the Age of Gods fucks with true magic too.
>>3720998I think it's just that he doesn't want to go though the rigamarole of actually learning to use it. Also, he doesn't want to dirty our hands with Magic because it's fucking stupid and thus should be relegated to use by npcs.
>>3721016>>3721021That's stupid man. I bet if you could get HSDW you'd pick that shit up in an instant instead of "relegating" it. Magic is necessary to be a Mage-God-King, and is also Gucci.
>>3721088Magic is fucking stupid.Of course I'd take HSDWs because they are actually good.Magic is NPC tier in that it doesn't really fit main characters. Even Aoko has excessively vague powers despite being a main character.To be a God King we'd use Authority anyway, not Magic. It's just lame.
>>3721088That is because HSDW make sense, are well understood, have clear, measurable utility and power. Also, they aren't in the running for being the dumbest part of the whole setting. True Magic is, like any number of fictional sorceries, total bullshit only to be used by supporting characters in service to the plot.
>>3721207I think Sweets can make it work.
Basically, we can incarnate through the third, but it makes much more sense to have Lily as the wielder of it.She's already got all the info on it's use the Einzbern have.Of course we will need to get her to like us more but we're planning on doing that anyway.It's either that or we spend decades attempting to figure out the Third Magic while the world conspires against us.Also, while we attempt to figure out proper use of it which could take years, we'd need to support multiple servants without a grail. >>3721214Maybe. It is a supporting character thing though.
>>3721207True Magic is infuriatingly vague.You'd expect "oh so it makes you nigh-undefeatable" but nope, Medea beats Aoko. Apparently. The term "Near-True Magic" has been used so often it doesn't mean anything anymore.True Magic itself is ridiculous in that it's been 20 years since the Nasuverse started and we still barely know anything about it. Despite it's supposed importance.
>>3721214It would be incredibly difficult to make it interesting while staying true to what precious little we know about it. It would take years of effort to make any meaningful progress with it, which is time I would rather spend on something more tangible like HSDW or mastering our sword's abilities.
>>3721331Don't forget that we're a naturally quick learner of magic since we have a magical origin
>>3721337 #Irrelevant. Magic isn't Magecraft. It would still take years. Even with our natural genius level talent at learning >>3721331 #This anon has the right idea.We can either give the third to a devoted ally and learn something more relevant to combat, or we could learn something that might not even be good in a fight. Just the fact that the user of the third was killed should tell you of it's lack of combat use, considering how powerful Zel is.Third always seemed more like utility to me
Do you guys think having a shard of Judas in our being is going to be significant in the future, beyond just being able to speak to him.
I suppose it's the Red Mage vs Black/White Mage argument.Versatility vs Specialization.Freelancer is best class thoughHeavens Feel can do vague soul things, from what we've seen of it, it's far better outside of combat. So it might honestly be the better choice to have the loli get it considering she should have some ability already.Medea's (and Circe's) High Speed Divine Words let her beat True Magic (apparently) and can accomplish multiple bullshit effects, like teleporting or whatever the fuck this was. >>3721433I'm sure it's completely fine.Totally."It was the command spell that allowed me to assume direct control."
So if we do manage to successfully pull off the superdoublecross...How do we get Lily to like us again if we kidnap her?And how much do we laugh at the Emiyas for blindly trusting us?
>>3721576>How do we get Lily to like us again if we kidnap her?Be a courteous onii-chan, duh. Really, I don't think it'll be that hard. Not like she needs Niemand to achieve the Heaven's Feel.>And how much do we laugh at the Emiyas for blindly trusting us?Y'know, I've always seen Alberich as living in the moment. Laughing about past deceptions that only he and a gaggle of dead people would really know about doesn't strike me as his style. So nil I'd say.
>>3721599Everyone knows the only thing Alberich finds funny is mentally making head puns about Keiseki when he's bored.Still, I'd like to see Shirou's face when realising he's been totally outplayed. Even if he doesn't die then and there.I imagine the mental fatigue of what the fuck we just did would kind of weigh too hard on Ayaka for her to keep doing the ritual. There's also the fact we'll have a loli to kidnap and a Master to protect and then have to 3v1 the Emiyas.Idk if we can keep Ayaka safe in these circumstances, and Rider wouldn't be above a hostage situation of her own.
>>3719978>[ ] "You'll have to get your magical energy some other way tonight," you say. "Siphon some off of the leylines or something, but this takes precedence and there's a role I need you to play tonight." (Pride/Compassion)Ask her if doing this will have too notorious effects (if so, drain the energy from a place that won't scream "a rogue Caster lives here) and tell her about the human leyline proyect.
Oh, if this update shows us anything it's that we need to get Alberich some downtime. After this whole op goes FUBAR, anyone up for going full Hermit and dicking around with Alberich's abilities and learning about magic on his lonesome for a couple of days?
>get the third magic>incarnate ourselves>summon beings from the imaginary realm, incarnate them in exchange for loyaltyNot seeing many downsides here
>>3721686I like how you just assume that we'll have mastery of something immediately.Or that they'd be loyal after incarnation. >>3721682Sure, now I know that we can empower ourselves by mass sacrifice of civvies, I feel much less pressured into fighting the enemy servants. Also less of a reason to kill the Emiyas too, knowing that the powerup points aren't limited, so to speak.Shirou could finally be a real hero if he survives to the reversion to the Age of Gods. Which is hilarious.
>>3721717Fighting servants is so much more efficient though. We need to take full advantage of this grail war to empower ourselves with these overpowered magical beings while we have the chance.
>>3721717Not to mention that we gain access to servant tier skills and NPs that we could never get from killing a thousand normies
>>3721732>so much more efficientYou can't possibly know that. It's beneficial for the ability copying though, I admit.Akeldama 2.0 might empower both us and Tsubaki, though.It does make sacrificing the Emiyas kinda pointless though.Nothing Rider has is very good for us either.
>>3721755We can use the normie energy to unlock the abilities of other slain servants though.No reason not to kill some mundanes.
>>3721759Didn't Ayaka say something about how when the both parties involved in the sacrifice are conceptual beings, it's more efficient?Regardless, killing one person is always more efficient than killing a thousand. If not from a time standpoint, then at least from a subtlety standpoint.
>>3721776Ayaka doesn't have an A rank Noble Phantasm specifically for mass sacrifice though.
>>3721776Regardless. There's a certain amount of danger in every fight against an enemy servant that 1000 normal people could never pose to us.
>>3721796>There's a certain amount of danger in every fight against an enemy servant that 1000 normal people could never pose to us.Weren't you the one complaining about not having challenges and playing it safe being bitchmade?
>>3721844Yes, and?It's a comparison of efficiency.It's far easier to accomplish than killing enemy servants. You must see that.It's also a more sustainable source than relying on powerful spiritual beings which could murder us.My argument is more in the realm of narratives.Killing everyone on a train might not be difficult but it would be interesting. More interesting than backstabbing an incompetent non threat out of fear.
>>3721877I was under the impression that killing normies provides life force that sustains our existence while killing servants gives us spiritual energy that can be incorporated into our essence, providing upgrades. I could be wrong though.
>>3721978While you might normally be correct about this.Look at Tsubaki's Noble Phantasms and consider what an Akeldama Derived ritual would do.It's also a way to get Alberich and Tsubaki to bond. Which would be nice, considering the relationship right now seems to be death threats and Alberich considering his sister attractive, the attraction may or may not be mutual.So after we kill Achilles, backstab Niemand, grab the loli and tell Shirou to gtfo or die then we'll have ample opportunity to experiment with her Noble Phantasm.
>>3722018The drawback of giving them the chance to leave is losing the element of surprise. If they know we're evil I'm sure they'll plot a counterattack eventually, with unlimited time to prepare.
>>3722044They don't have unlimited time though.AlsoWould you not find it hilarious if they came up with the perfect counterplan to both us and Tsubaki somehow and then we just go "NOPE, FIVE SERVANTS." on them?
>>3722050Letting them go is still just putting off the problem for another time
>>3722068Sure, but I do intend to make good use of them, it's just our current allies and skills just don't allow for us to do so.Mind Control and Mind Reading would be far more beneficial to us in the long run.
I made an edit using a fellow Bowieface.I removed most of the excessively pointy bitsCouldn't get the red lines of the cape looking right, unfortunately.
HSDW or Third Magic really depends only on one thing, at the end of the day.Who would you prefer as a teacher? Circe or Liliesviel?
>>3722380Circe 100% she's super cute and I miss her.
>>3722380Both. I don't see a reason we would need to restrict ourselves.
>>3722389Because it's possible the two might be incompatible.Even if that isn't the case, that's a lot of time to spend learning two very difficult seperate magic skillsets.
>>3722380They're not mutually exclusive
>>3722405You say that, but they very well might be.the Five True Magic are the product of the Modern EraHigh Speed Divine Words are a product of the Age of Gods.The two may be very incompatible.It's mentioned Medea can't learn the modern True Magic, for example, despite coming from an Age where True Magic was common.
>>3722403There is no indication it would be so and to assume that is pretty farfetched. Almost as if you want us not to get the third magic by pretending they are mutual exclusive.And weren't you the one going on about long term benefits in regards to the Emiyas? Seems like in long term as an ageless servant we would have more than enough time to learn.
>>3722426>the Five True Magic are the product of the Modern Era>despite coming from an Age where True Magic was common.So when it is a product of the modern era. How could it have been common during Medea's time?
>>3722435I'm not pretending anything.We can't have everything, and it's very likely attempting to learn both High Speed Divine Words which work on the principle of "Fuck you I do what I want" and True Magic, which works on the principle of advanced autism, may clash.Different Eras.>>3722442Basically, True Magic has changed over timeTrue Magic is basically "things impossible to replicate through normal means"So in Medea's time, stuff like human flight would've been True Magic, or something.But then Humans fucked everything up as usual.I don't really get it either, but it is what it is.
>>3722458Basically though, we don't need True Magic if we're going for an Age of Gods reversion because the Age of Gods buffs the fuck out of Magecraft to put it on the level of Magic.
>>3722458You literally framed a question to present mutual exclusiveness as a fact and that what we want more of the two is the only question left.>So in Medea's time, stuff like human flight would've been True Magic, or something.If humans would have been able to fly by any means if given unlimited time and resources then it is not true magic. Since the laws of physics didn't change flying wouldn't be true magic. Hell a lot of Casters who lived back then can fly without using true magic.>>3722492True magic is explicitly surpassing magecraft. It will always be above normal magecraft even if you buffed it.For example making a unlimited source of mana is simply impossible with normal magecraft even if you buff it. True magic can do it.
>>3722519From CMIII>When the civilization of mankind was still young, all magery had been True Magic. But along with the advancement of science, the number of things that "could be done" by people had increased, and in exchange, True Magic diminished.Basically, it's all the normalfag's fault.I don't really fucking get it at all, but that's how the world works.Blame Gil and Solomon.I assume it has something to do with the Gods.Humans are a fucking plague.Also from CMIII is >Caster's a magus back in the day that true magic was common so she wouldn't have good affinity with the "Five True Magics of the Modern Era" anyhow, so, she isn't going to be able to pick up True Magic.>Also there are actually quite a few magi with level higher than the current wizards. In the first place, Aozaki Aoko herself is inferior as a magus than the lecturers of the Clock Tower.Basically, it's the decline of mystery that ruined everything.
>>3722458>We can't have everything, and it's very likely attempting to learn both High Speed Divine Words which work on the principle of "Fuck you I do what I want" and True Magic, which works on the principle of advanced autism, may clash.It's actually very unlikely they clash. True magic is not magecraft and has never clashed with it. Neither in the past nor in the modern era and HSDW is just a way to use magecraft, even if in this quest it uses divine authority.
>>3722557Speculation is pointless at this point thenIt's just doubtful that we won't fuck everything up on the True Magic end if we cause the apocalypse for AoG magic.I guess we'll have to ask Circe this stuff when we meet her again.
>>3722581>It's just doubtful that we won't fuck everything up on the True Magic endI'm not sure how undoing the diminishing of true magic is supposed to hurt true magic, but okay.>if we cause the apocalypse for AoG magic.How would we even do this? I know some people wanted to do it, but I think the only way we ever really had of achieving it would be using the wish of the grail. Which turned out not to work that way.
>>3722557It's not an incompatibility issue it's an overgeneralization issue. There's no point in studying both Third Magic and HSDW because it would gimp our progress in both due to the fact that there's no overlap. Also, actually specializing in the Third doesn't seem that attractive because we only know a couple things that it can do so we can't gauge it's usefulness as a field of study. Honestly, I would rather leave the Sorcery to the magi as the whole of it is vauge npcmagic bullshit with no tangible depth.
>>3722557I just doubt that we'll have the time to learn both HSDW and the Third while also attempting to take over the world.Additionally, we'd need to learn how to use the Third if we took it for ourselves, and that puts off our incarnation for some time.And if we are going for a True Magic I'd much prefer we tried to get the First or Fourth, The Third is boring.Also, actually getting the Einzbern the Third Magic would give us a powerful ally for our world conquest too, as well as somebody who already knows how to use the damn magic. >>3722588There's a spear that keeps the Reverse Side of the World seperate from the World kept by a Saberface at the Clocktower.There's a Sword that can act as a key to the Reverse Side of the World that we sort of own.Now, what would happen if somebody were to stop the spear from functioning (DO NOT HIT THE SPEAR WITH THE SWORD) and attempt to open a fuckhueg rift with their sword, I wonder?Anyway, it would somewhat change Modern True Magic if the definition of True Magic itself was changed I would assume. How exactly, I do not know.
>>3722588It's two different kinds of true magic. True magic in the HSDW sense is just the good magic from the age of gods which allows a ton of versitility and power, while true magic in the modern sense is stuff like third and fourth sorcery, which gives you vauge control over a vauge power.
>>3722310This looks incredible, anon! Thanks!
>>3722380Both. Being "vague" is not an argument in any way because we know Sweets will make something up for that.>>3722426>>3722458>>3722492>>3722553And, if it turns out both are incompatible I'm going with the Third, which is superior to magecraft.>inb4 "divine words are better"No, they are not. Divine Words are a way of speeding up magecraft, and High-Speed Divine Words are a way of speeding up Divine Words. In the end it's all instantaneous magecraft, bounded to the realm of possibility. The Third is beyond that realm.
>>3722591>as the whole of it is vauge npcmagic bullshit with no tangible depth.It's only vague npc magic until Alberich acquires it fool. HSDW was "vague nocmagic bullshit" in F/SN, but sweets unlike those hacks @ Type Moon is entirely willing to get into and flesh out topics, rather than using the excuse of "the MC is a total ignoramus novice" to duck explaining complex things.>>3722602>I just doubt that we'll have the time to learn both HSDW and the Third while also attempting to take over the world.Fair. But that's a problem to deal with when we get to it, rather than an excuse to abort any attempt at real mystic might.
>>3722591Then we probably should learn it to gauge its usefulness instead of dismissing it wholly.>>3722602>Additionally, we'd need to learn how to use the ThirdWas that ever stated? I mean if you want to normally learn it sure, but when you gain it by looking into the root? It just seems like it would come with at least a basic understanding how to use it.>And if we are going for a True Magic I'd much prefer we tried to get the First or Fourth, The Third is boring.I agree, but we don't have the choice of which true magic we gain.>Now, what would happen if somebody were to stop the spear from functioning (DO NOT HIT THE SPEAR WITH THE SWORD) and attempt to open a fuckhueg rift with their sword, I wonder?I think it was stated that the two sides would crash into each other. So if you want to kill practically everyone then that would be a way to do it. It wouldn't undo the underlying reason for the end of the age of gods which was the conflict between Alaya and Gaia.
>>3722626Aoko has the Fifth and is kind of a novice with it for a while.
>>3722602>Now, what would happen if somebody were to stop the spear from functioning (DO NOT HIT THE SPEAR WITH THE SWORD) and attempt to open a fuckhueg rift with their sword, I wonder?Sweets says the world ends.>Anyway, it would somewhat change Modern True Magic if the definition of True Magic itself was changed I would assume.It's not that the definition has changed, but rather that there are now more things under that definition. In the Age of Gods much more was beyond the abilities of humanity.
>>3722632She inherited it from her grandfather, who was the one to trace the path.
>>3722634Sweets says the world ends if you hit the spear with the sword.I specifically said not to do that.
>>3722639>Step one, acquire HSDW>Step two, master HSDW>Step three, find the fecking spear>Step four, wait until somebody is about to kill Alberich or has overwhelming power or whatever>Step five, teleport to clocktower, lucke the schwert>Step six, ???????>Step seven, P R O F IT
>>3722650>Carry around Rhongomyniad as well as Kosmos Ouroboros (was that the horn's name?)Just casually carrying around two Doomsday devices.
>>3722639Then we still have not even the beginnings of an idea on how to bring the age of gods back.
>>3722591It seems more just like an excuse to justify your weird bias against the third magic, which every mage strives for for a legitimate reason.
>>3722650Are we going to end up getting into a heros of might and magic situation where two idiots attempt to fight eachother with weapons that nuke the entire world if they ever touch?
>>3722639Anything that stops Rhongomyniad from functioning is bad because the two textures will collide at high speed and blow up in cheap special effects.
>>3722671Well, there will be time.And the Wandering Sea could help, given their obsession with AoG magecraft.
Also, Lily comes built in with knowledge on how to use the Third Magic if she's the one who gets it.I mean, it would raise her affection points pretty massively if we gave her the thing she was made to get and validated her existence, even if we technically betrayed her to get to that point.>>3722671>>3722678We have the Gods on speed dial as well as Circe.We'll find a way.
>>3722663You know speaking of having more Doomsday Devices: What'd be some other NPs that'd make for great ones?I'd say Ars Almadel Solomis would be a great one. And hey if it could be combined with HSG then we can go for having the BIGGEST Swordbeams of nothingness
>>3722687God damn it now I have the mental image of Alberich holding his sword like it's a mobile phone and talking into it.
>>3722672Have you ever heard of the concept of delegation anon? We can have access to the third magic without actually training it ourselves. We could give it to Lily for instance. You know. That person who was built from the ground up to harness third magic?
>>3722675It wouldn't be a fight if Alberich fought that worthless seibahfaceu, it'd be a bloody massacre
>>3722689Anon, I do appreciate your enthusiasm, but I think Goetia/Grand Caster are kind of out of our league, currently.
>>3722702Hmm...>Delegate your powers to your inferiors who can probably use them at least marginally better than youor>Hoard all your power for yourself, be an immortal Heroic God Emperor with unsurpassable might, lording over the petty mortals and inferior immortalsI'll take Door B please.
>>3722715I just wanna start a discussion of NPs that'd make for great doomsday weapons in the hands of Alberich. And with that attitude we sure are staying there!
>>3722687>We have the Gods on speed dial as well as Circe.>We'll find a way.You mean the gods who couldn't do it before?>>3722702Good we can delegate the HSDW to Circe who is a goddess of magic that created the words.But seriously while we could delegate this is something we could take pride in. Also if anything can undo the effect of the third magic then it is the third magic, so giving it away to someone else seems like something we should have a good reason for.
>>3722716>delegate properly and conquer the world via superior planning Or>be a greedy asshole and attempt to take all the power for yourselfDoor B leads us to killing Circe, Tsubaki, Adelheid and Matsuda(?) For the sake of powerNo thanks.
>>3722702Giving away the most potent magic we can possibly get our hands on goes beyond delegation.
>>3722719I mean, Gil was their whole plan.It backfired.
>>3722723>Door B leads us to killing Circe, Tsubaki, Adelheid and Matsuda(?) For the sake of powerThis does not follow. >>3722725This, thank you. Should we give Heiligöffnungschwert to Adelheid? Cede Kenótis to Circe? Utter madness.
>>3722723>Door B leads us to killing Circe, Tsubaki, Adelheid and Matsuda(?) For the sake of powerNo it doesn't and I'm kind of curious how the fuck you get that idea. I mean not giving Lily the third doesn't mean killing her, so why would it mean killing everyone else.
>>3722719>>3722725It would make Lily happy.Is that not reason enough?Additionally, she has literal decades worth of experience with it and research over us due to being a Homunculus made for it.
>>3722729>>3722730Well, we get stronger by sacrificing servants, no?May as well kill them so we can get stronger, no?Don't be a Powerfag.
>>3722740C'mon now anon
>>3722726Somehow this doesn't convince me that having their help is conducive to our success.>>3722732No it isn't and I'm curious how someone who hasn't ever had the magic somehow has experience in using it? Theoretical knowledge maybe, but that isn't a huge advantage, especially when we can ask her about it.>>3722740Are you incapable of seeing the difference between getting a true magic without hurting anyone and needing to kill someone to get a small fraction of their power?
>>3722746You know I'm right.Third Magic would be better off in Lilies' hands.You're just being Greedy.We need the Third Magic to be usable immediately after it is acquired. As we'd no longer have grail support.We need somebody who can actually use the Third Magic.
>>3722758Illya literally can use an imperfect version of the third magic.It's why Shirou isn't dead.
>>3722732>It would make Lily happy.>Is that not reason enough?No. Alberich's happiness is more important to him than Lily's.>Additionally, she has literal decades worth of experience with it and research over us due to being a Homunculus made for it.I don't see Iris or Ilya doing anything impressive with it. Do you?>>3722740>killing our loved ones for a powerup is the same as taking the magic for a powerupYou tell such funny jokes, anon.
>>3722758>true magic without hurting anyoneI mean, Lily not getting it likely hurts her considering the whole lifespan issue of Homonculi. Also, kinda denies her reason to exist. Bit of a dick move.
>>3722773>Do you?FUNNY YOU SHOULD MENTION THAT.>>3718099
>>3722760>You know I'm right.no u>Third Magic would be better off in Lilies' hands.Prove it.>You're just being Greedy.Yes, and?>We need the Third Magic to be usable immediately after it is acquired. As we'd no longer have grail support.And guess what, we're going to use it after we trace a path to the Root and learn how to make it happen.>>3722768She can use it with the Dress of Heaven on.
>>3722775Why do you care so much about Lily? Look, she's cute. She's a qt3.14 Einzbern homunculus. Her interlude in like thread three or whatever was to die for. But she isn't a part of Alberich's retinue yet, and who knows how she's going to take Alberich trying to kill Niemand. Your loyalty to such a personage is strange.>Bit of a dick moveK
>>3722775>I mean, Lily not getting it likely hurts her considering the whole lifespan issue of Homonculi.Yeah I mean we couldn't possibly use the third on her to solve that.>Bit of a dick move.Yes, so are a lot of things Alberich did.
>>3722782>trace a path to the rootNope.That's not what the Einzbern want.That's not how they get the Third back.
>>3722788>we couldn't possibly use the third to solve thatNot without years of research lmao.
>>3722775>Also, kinda denies her reason to exist.You take Adelheid's small hands between yours, and continue, "what does matter is that we have proof of our respective existences, here and now. Whatever we may have been in the past, and however we may or may not be connected to those people, you and I know one another only in the present. To me, Adelheid is a person living now, existing in her own right; not the reflection of a dead leader, or the manifestation of an ideal. You need only look forward, and exist as you are. The past is unimportant!"
>>3722782>Prove itLiterally already gave you all the evidence as to why
>all these tards that think we would be better served by hoarding as much magic as possible to the detriment of all if it rather than gaining extremely powerful and devoted allies that can become masters of their respective fields.
>>3722789THEN WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK THE SEVEN SERVANT THING IS FOR
>>3722795Wtf I love giving away our hard earned power for free now
>>3722793A lovely speech, true.But using that as an excuse to take true magic just makes Alberich a twat.>>3722801For the Tohsakas to try and reach the Root and fail.>>3722802>our hard earned power>ourDelusional. It's just as good in the hands of a devoted ally.Especially if said ally can use it better than us.
>>3722794And we shot it down.>>3722795we're doing that alreadyadelheid is the master of explosionscirce is the master of magecraft and she'll tell us how to make the age of gods happen againtsubaki is the master of being an imoutomatsuda is the master of being a badasstruvi is the master of being a tsundere idklily is the master of the einzbernskikuko is not a master, but she can continue to be a brainwashed slave
>>3722795I don't understand what they think we'll lose if we give something we'd likely end up neglecting to somebody who was literally designed for it.We don't even train all our skills now, and you lot want to add HSDW AND the Third to that list?
>>3722819>we shot it down You didn't do anything All your arguments are BUT ME WANT TRUE MAGIC You aren't even really considering what we'd do with it, considering it seems to have a focus on support.
>>3722822You *do* realize that the grail war isn't eternal, right? Alberich won't always be so pressured as to ignore his skills. Unless season three is really fucked, that is
>>3722802>>3722802Why is everyone so hungry for us to get third magic for ourselves? I thought the entire point of keeping the loli around was to use her for our third magic needs. Instead of some non-combat sorcery or HSDW why don't we develop the unique magic we have in Heiligöffnungschwert? That seems like it would actually help our goal of bringing back the age of gods, as well as just generally being a giant well of untapped potential that we can start working on right now and gain innumerable benifits.
>>3722822Oh, could it be that the people wanting it would maybe want to train it?And honestly it has vastly more priority than learning HSDW which is mostly just a faster way to do what normal magecraft can already do.
>>3722831Anon, remember when in Akeldama we kept saying "well, we'll have plenty of time to practice after the grail war"?
>>3722844>not understanding HSDW to this extentOh noYou're going to make me laugh at you.Anon for fucks sake.HSDWs aren't High Speed Incantations. You can do ridiculous True Magic tier shit with them.There's a reason Medea is referred to as infinitely close to Magicians.
>>3722838>I thought the entire point of keeping the loli around was to use her for our third magic needs.No it is because she is the only one who knows how to get the third from the grail for us. Without her nobody gets anything from it.>unique magic we have in HeiligöffnungschwertYou seem to misunderstand what our sword is. It is not some magic, it is a very specialized NP which does what it does very well but has no real way to expand through training alone.
>>3722838Power Hungry anons for no reason.I honestly don't get this sudden obsession with getting the Third. It's not even very good.
>>3722860I could say the same to you. It changes some steps but besides powering up magecraft and making it faster it doesn't do anything.>You can do ridiculous True Magic tier shit with them.>There's a reason Medea is referred to as infinitely close to Magicians.No you can't which is why Medea isn't said to be a Magician. Being infinitely closer is only in comparison to modern magi which are not exactly close to true magic.
>>3722873>no you can'tBut you can.Your arguments are embarrassing.Do you know what infinite means, even?
>>3722878Okay, so explain to me why Medea didn't use her "true magic" tier magic to incarnate herself with unlimited mana and fuck of with her lover?Or needed to use leylines when with true magic you wouldn't need them?
>>3722868It meshes incredibly well with our objective to survive and incarnate ourselves and our allies. Not to mention our ability to summon and then incarnate imaginary realm beings. I don't understand the hate against it.
>>3722867First of all it is by no means a specialized NP. Second of all, we've already developed our capabilities with it through practice once already, and it's confirmed the we can gain new abilities through learning and training them. And even if there was no way to further develop it we still don't fully understand the capabilities it already possesses.
>>3722890Because we can literally accomplish the exact same stuff by giving it to Lily.Who actually knows how to use it.Everyone is assuming we immediately will be a Master of the Third is delusional. >>3722886Maybe her True Magic doesn't allow for infinite mana, there's no guarantee they all do.Also Nasu is inconsistent with lore.
>>3722890Nobody is hating on third magic, we just don't want to waste time studying it when we could get someone better qualified to do it for us.
>>3722617I'm glad you like it.
>>3722912>Maybe her True Magic doesn't allow for infinite mana, there's no guarantee they all do.So which true magic tier abilities does it give her? Because what we saw of her is impressive but not true magic tier.
>>3722926Teleportation is one.But mostly you should read CMIII.
>>3722926Honestly the what defines something as "true magic tier" is incredibly vauge. Divine language and Sorcery are both refered to as True Magic so it's a bit of a crapshoot.
>>3722912Why would Lily want to incarnate all of our friends? We can't guarantee that brainwashing is an option.
>>3722981Depends how much she appreciates her Elder Brother (false) for validating her existence as well as actually being nice to her.Illya sacrifices herself for Shirou after knowing him for two weeks. It's immensely unlikely she won't be our devoted ally at that point.
>>3722996Also, imagine the fun of three ridiculously powerful magi/magician (I hope to have Tsubaki buff her Witchcraft) all vying for Alberich's attention in the same house.If Lily doesn't get the third then she becomes kind of an irrelevant character, post war.I don't want that for her.
>>3722996>Lily, I'm not an einzbern. This is all a coincidence and I've been using your love for onii-chan to manipulate you into helping me win the war.>S-so you were lying the whole time, and I was just another tool for you to use? FUCK YOU DIE FAKER DIE NO HEAVEN'S FEEL FOR YOU REEEEEEEEEEEEE>>3723039I don't really care about Lily, so whatever.
>>3722838>why don't we develop the unique magic we have in Heiligöffnungschwert?I've been pushing for summoning, but SOME ANONS would rather work on Tsubaki's feefees or meet Lily or betray Shirou.
>>3723122>>3723130It might be about time for you to stop posting anon.
>>3723158you will never silence the resistance, vive la orgueil
>>3723214...and then nobody said anything for an hour and a half.
>>3723372Trample the weak. Hurdle the dead.
>>3723372At least it wasn't his doing.
By the way, this is probably obvious by this hour but I'm unable to post tonight. I was out all day, which is why I wasn't a part of the conversation. Will pick the writing back up tomorrow morning, and hopefully get multiple updates out as it's not a work day.
>>3723122>>3723130This is why Power obsessed losers suck. Oh well, when the time is right, the Third will go to Lily.
>>3723122>>>S-so you were lying the whole time, and I was just another tool for you to use? FUCK YOU DIE FAKER DIE NO HEAVEN'S FEEL FOR YOU REEEEEEEEEEEEEImagine unironically trying to use both this and "Lily will help us make the wish." As arguments at the same time.
>>3723549>wants alberich to act out of character>"This is why Power obsessed losers suck."What's next, hero of justice Alberich?
Putting so much fate in Liliesviel`s good will is Edgar tier to be honest.
>>3723564This. Alberich doesn't leave his life in anyone else's hands, he takes control of his own destiny. Or was this meaningless to you?>"It seems I do have a wish at that," you declare. Your voice is rising now, as you find the proper shape for the formless rage that had been swirling in you since Judas finished speaking. "I would be free to live and choose my own fate and its circumstances, not those planned by Caster!"It's a small step from "I want to be free from other people's manipulations" to "I don't want to depend on other people to live".
By the way, does anyone have Keiseki's portrait? I can't find it right now and I swear there was one.
>>3723563>>3723572You say "Out of Character." But we quite literally need Lily to incarnate. That's why we decided to go to her.Because we need to rely on her.If she won't incarnate us with the Third Magic, what makes you think she'll help us get it ourselves?And if we don't need her help, why don't we just tear out her heart and be done with it?You couldn't even find a related quote, so you're trying to pass off an unrelated quote as evidence that I'm somehow saying the logical choice is out of character. >>3723564Literally the only thing we can do is befriend her for incarnation. Our fates are intertwined regardless of the circumstances of our birth.Also>implying Sweets would make the Einzbern take a worst girl move
>>3723580We're going after Lily because she's the only one who knows how to perform the ritual that will open up a path to the Root. What happens after that is completely up to Alberich.That's what we've been arguing about the whole time: whether to let her trace that part or do it personally.
Let's compare the benefits and drawbacks directly Give it to Alberich+have true magic -no idea how to use it-will take years to learn it--have 5 servants in desperate need of incarnation -Lily will hate us-the Einzbern will hate us Give it to Lily+Devoted Ally has true magic++Already familiar with it++Can incarnate everyone immediately +Lily will love us+the Einzbern are basically a guaranteed ally -Alberich can't use the support type magic which has no real offensive uses for himselfThe word "True Magic" might give you a powerboner, but lets take a step back and consider what the third is good for and why we should spend time trying to learn it.
>>3723595>going afterGoing to, I mean.We need her until the path opens, and if Alberich takes the Third immediately afterward then she's unneeded.
>>3723595>>3723599How is it possible to be so wrong?The Root isn't required for the Third.Only the Tohsaka wanted that.The Third already exists, so going to the Root for it would be useless. That's not what the Einzbern and Makiri were after.They wanted the ritual to succeed for Heaven's Feel.Going to the Root would get us like, the Sixth True Magic. Or death. You don't even know what you yourself are arguing for now.
>>3723597>Give it to Alberich+have true magic+now totally independent, doesn't need anyone else to be protected at all costs and nobody is holding his balls in a vise+can save the people he loves from death if their bodies are destroyed+can do anything illya does with the dress of heaven but better because it's the complete thing-has to master it, will probably still have some basic understanding because we see the path to the root ourselves-einzberns guaranteed enemies>Give it to Lily+have ally with true magic, not a total loss+ally is familiar with incomplete version+einzberns guaranteed allies-don't have true magic-lily controls alberich now-alberich will have to get hsdw to do high-speed magecraft, unlikely to happenAnd, by the way, it doesn't matter if the Einzberns are our enemies because they can't do jackshit to five Servants. I would never trust the Einzberns as allies either, because Acht could very well have something up his ass to kill or control Lily at any time and because they're just untrustworthy.
>>3723619This post represents a major lack of understanding. You seem to believe that Lily could unincarnate us, somehow.Or that the third can bring somebody back after they have actually diedThere's no fucking path to the Root, lmao.Why do we need to learn how to use the fucking support Magic when there's a perfect White Mage candidate right there?Jesus Christ, these arguments just get less informed
>>3723607>>3723629Well, I guess if you're going to be wilfully retarded then it's useless to argue with you. Good day to you, anon.
>>3723630>no argument>doesn't understand the mechanics >n-no! You're wrong!Lmao Choke on a dick, imbecile.
>>3723572For me the two major thing that stands out about Alberich personality is two things we thus far been keeping on doing: Fiercely wishing to have our own life which is not dependent on will of the others and being dependent ally to people we choose to care about.I can see Alberich aiming to keep Liliesviel and get Saber Alter maid because of high Desire and Pride but only if it is not endanger his primary loyalties and motivations.So far I can`t see a situation now where we in-character would chose to let other like Niemand or Liliesviel to control us even if possibilty of doing things by our own hands if flimsy at best. While Alberich is not led by petty greed for power he is clearly not a person who would willing secede his free will and fate out of his own hands if there is anything he can do about it.>>3723579Pretty sure it was this one.>>3723580Sweets so far been pretty good with consistent motivation of his characters. I don`t believe Liliesviel will do 180 turn on her current motivation after truth about us will be out. Unless of course we will suck up to her for the rest of Awakening Mirror. Doing so clashes with all our previous actions and characterization we had done so far.
>>3723619Gotta love how you took >has true magic And stretched it out into 4 seperate + points.Even though Lily could do everything better anyway. Why do you think "our balls will be in a vise" if Lily gets it, anyway?Do you not understand incarnation, perhaps?
>>3723639This argument is ridiculous.We're literally going All In on the Holy Grail, which is out of our hands. Having Lily incarnate us isn't seceding our free will. Either.I don't get what you're arguing for.
>>3723644Backstab Niemand.Subjugate Liliesviel and use her later if she is reliable and there is no other way to achieve best possible result for us at the end of this Grail War. Kōrakuhime could probably even use her as battery and extract needed knowledge out of her if she refuses to cooperate on our terms.I don`t care for Third Magic itself but I am heavily against playing a second fiddle to anybody. Especially Einzberns.
>>3723658We won't be playing second fiddle here though.We'll be backstabbing Niemand and giving the Third Magic to a trusted subordinate after we ensure Liliesviel's loyalty. The girl is the grail anyway.
Finally, this is half-done.Now you will all know where our loyalties lie.
>>3723671>sweets pls give lily a portrait so she doesn't get her face stolen by illya thx.I am 77% sure sweets gave her one a few sessions ago, if not last session.
>>3723671>Truvi and Kikuko above Lily?>not using one of the portaits Sweets picked out for Lily??Lily has actually managed to make Alberich feel like he wants to protect her, which puts her above the Emiyas, Truvi and Kikuko, at least.There's no reason not to trust the loli, anon.
>>3723674>I am 77% sure sweets gave her one a few sessions ago, if not last session.I couldn't find it...
Give me one good reason not to give the Third to Lily, assuming we get her to a point where she's completely devoted to us.The Third has no real direct combat use, any benefits you can gain from it can sort of be given to whoever the user wants, so it's more logical for the user to be a non-combatant.It's not like the Second where you can use it directly to make giant moonfucking laser beams.The Third is kinda the worst True Magic. The First, Second and Fifth can ressurect the dead, iirc.Age of Gods magic can ressurect the dead conventionally (not by cheating and breaking reality to do so.)Honestly, if you really want True Magic then we could get Lily the Third and then seek the First or Fourth.
Slight edit on the hair.
Hey Sweets...Remember when you praised Jason's design?AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>3723742Oh god it keeps getting worse.This is Paris.That Paris, yes.
>>3723714>>3723741>>3723742>>3723758Why don't you make a blog about it?
>>3723764Why don't you go fuck yourself?
>>3723766Aww, now he's mad.
>>3723777I do find it amusing that you're still butthurt about being wrong though.How's that fragile ego?Maybe debating just isn't for you.
>>3723779>How's that fragile ego?More durable than yours, it looks like.
>>3723783>n-no u!AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHCome on now, anon. You're making us both look bad.
>wake up>check thread to see not an update but two monkeys flinging shit through the night>the flubtg shitpiles are the size of two-story houses now>>3723783>>3723779Holy shit, dox each other and get a room already.
>>3723793I can only attempt to reiterate my point so many times before I get tired of having to repeat the points continually being ignored.His arguments were quite simply misinformed, immensely optimistic, or just plain bad.
>>3723814I mean you aren't wrong, but the amount you post in general is ridiculous.196 posts!That's over a quarter of the fucking thread dedicated to your shit.You have to see how fucking autistic that is right?
>>3723829Perhaps I went a bit far in some places.The post count quickly rises during a discussion though, which we've had multiple of.Also I've got a static IP so my ID never normally changes, unlike a mobileposters.
>>3723837>The post count quickly rises during a discussion though, which we've had multiple of.I'd say that most of the "discussion" going on is just hyped up shitposting, but it's not really all that important. Just try to keep a lid on the needless shit flinging yah?
>>3723814>I can only attempt to reiterate my point so many times before I get tired of having to repeat the points continually being ignored.>His arguments were quite simply misinformed, immensely optimistic, or just plain bad.Wait a second.That's what I was thinking.Was this all just a big misunderstanding?
>>3723846Of course, I wasn't the one that dragged us back into it.I just wanted to discuss the horribly designed New FGO servants and considered Jason ironic considering just last thread Sweets said he liked Jason's design.>>3723851Stop it, you retard.
>>3723793Sweets got really passionate playerbase.
>>3723829I think I've posted a comparable amount to him but it's spread out over a ton of ips as I move around.
>>3723714>>3723741>>3723742>>3723758...and that's why it's been 3 events since played any FGO. Just had to drop the game at a certain point.>>3723686I posted two images for her, saying she was between the two characters shown. Maybe you were looking for a definite portrait?
>>3724084No, I just mysteriously couldn't find them while I was looking for Keiseki's portrait.Let's just ignore that edit forever, I already want to delete it and jump down a well.
>>3724084It always feels like it's the Grecian Servants.Be it Jason getting relegated to being a living meme completely. Medea screeching about normies. Achilles being badly designed and boring.Chiron being forgettable. Circe getting nonsensical stats for balance purposesOrion being a literal mascot character. What does Paris even have to do with sheep? And why is he a shota?
I really can't get over how cool the Kenótis+Heiligöffnungschwert combination is.
>>3724339How so?I mean, they are cool NPs but what combination do you mean?
>>3724343As a pair of noble phatasms they're just really neat and have good synergy.
>>3724345Of course they synergise well.We've got a high tier offensive weapon and a high tier defensive cloak.They'd synergise well with anything.
Remember, if we go for the third for ourselves We>will have no idea how to use it (we won't suddenly master it because "root lol" especially considering to get the third back you don't need to use the Root)>might not even be compatible with it.>will anger a potential ally faction>won't be able to incarnate anyone until we figure it out, which could take years, or decades.It's even more pipe dream tier than HSDWs was. And the Third isn't even worth the damn trouble, it's got barely any application in actual combat and all the positive effects of the Third can kinda be applied to other people.
>>3724455HSDWs for life.
>"Superb work False Saber. Really, I must thank you. Without your interference and incompetence, I never would have reached these lofty heights of power."
>>3724580This is great! I'm always happy to see new edits.
>>3724629Thank you! We need to figure out a way for Alberich to use his height advantage to bulli Saber to death, and that train of thought lead me to remembering this scene from DIU.
>>3724629>nobody except Sweets cared about my FF2 Emperor effortpost edit but Jojomemes get free (you)sOw.
>>3724650You should know by now that edits that don't feature quest memes don't get (you)s.
>>3724713But the Kira edits are old and tired.At this point, Alberich has far more in common with The Emperor than with Kira.Hell, he's got more in common with Dio now other than the face.We need more original edits that aren't just pasting Kira's head onto things.
>>3724739I have to agree. While I do love Alberich's main portrait, and was happy to appropriate Kira's face for him, the protagonist has never really had as much in common with his personality as with DIO's.>>3723686Here's one of them.
>>3724739I'm fairly sure at some point sweets acknowledged one of the early kino Kira recolors as an official Alberich portrait, which is why I, shitty mobile edit anon, use them exclusively when producing shit.>But the Kira edits are old and tired.Fair. Frankly, we just haven't had any moments recently that make me think of any new style of meme/edit. I see little point in making something if it isn't relevant to the quest at hand. Speaking of which... >We need more original edits that aren't just pasting Kira's head onto things.Recoloring some rando into an albino doesn't make it an Alberich edit imo. That's why I didn't comment on your edit earlier. I have no actual artistic skills of course, and so have no ground to really criticize another efforts from.
>>3724759...and here's the other.
>>3724760>>3718947 is the portrait you're referring to, I believe. Akeldama Rushorou in a cream suit.
>>3724760>recolouring some Rando>not knowing the most competent Final Fantasy Villain of all>not knowing the FF2 Emperor is Emperor David Bowie.He looks just as much like Alberich as Kira does.Bowiefaces.
>>3724779I *did* say earlier in-thread I've never played any FF whatsoever. Pardon my ignorance.
>>3724783That being said, I wouldn't recommend FF2 in any incarnation. Game is jank as fuck due to being a NES era JRPG at it's core. All you should know about the Emperor is that he gets killed after taking over the world but then kills Satan and conquers hell and goes for a round two.In later releases the other half of his soul also takes over Heaven.
>>3724779I always loved how the emperor seemingly conquered the entire underworld about 20 minutes after his death. I also believe there was another game set in the world of FF2 where it was revealed that the emperor conquered heaven at the same time.
>>3724759This one, I like her imperious attitude (it's very "Einzbern princess," which has been one of my guidelines for Liliesviel) and the fact that she's in a gothic dress, there are other problems. The color scheme is all wrong, for one; her eyes should be red and her hair platinum-blonde. The dress should also be red and white, and should incorporate more frills, more bows, and generally more decoration that isn't on the surface of the fabric itself. It should have a white base with red decorations, by the way; not a red and white base in the way that this one has a purple and white base.>>3724763This one really captures the playful side of her personality and has a better color scheme, but the outfit is even more off than in the first one. The dress doesn't even come to her knees; way too short.Her hair is again not long enough.So you can see I've had some trouble finding a portrait for Liliesviel. I have a very specific character image in mind, and without a personal illustrator bringing that image out just isn't easy.
>>3724791He gets shit done.
>>3724799The Alberich portrait market is quite oversaturated; have you considered making a switch to the developing Kōrakuhime portrait market? I hear there's little competition and minimal QM regulations...
>>3724796I'll see if I can fix the first one's colour scheme at least, then.
>>3724759Honestly, he's got much more in common with the other popular Kira, when you think about it.
>>3724968A lot of superficial elements fit with Kira but I would definitely say the personality and overarching goal is very Light.
I suppose you could call this a first draft edit.
>>3725063That looks pretty damn good man
>>3725063>>3724796What further alterations need to be done with this (other than additional decoration), Sweets?Are the colours alright or should I switch them around a bit?
>>3725063Looking good! I was gone for a bit, otherwise would have responded immediately.>>3725154Colouration... I'm not sure how doable this is given the pallette of the original, but could you make the colors of her hair and dress a bit lighter and richer in the white portions? The ribbons and lace are perfectly colored, but the base cloth should ideally be more of a creamy white than the silvery look it has now.Her hair is similar; I'd like it to be a bit lighter than in >>3724763, but otherwise closer to that vibrant off-white than the silvery look it has now. The Einzberns all have the same color of hair, so it should be like what Illyasviel has in the sprite I've attached here.
>>3725173Another thought, or elaboration: the white of her blouse is perfect now, and so is the white of the frills at the hem of her dress; the main fabric of the dress should be slightly darker than those, that's correct too; but right now, when it gets darker, it tends towards grey. It should tend towards cream instead, so that the overall tone of the dress matches the (new) hair color.
>>3725173>>3725183What about now?
>>3725205That's closer. The hair and dress still feel silvery, though...
>>3725235Hmmm...Now it feels too dark. It's because of the way the original artist draws shadows as a darker shade of the same color; it seems like whatever you do, it'll still have that metallic impression.I guess >>3725205 is probably the best we can do with color editing.
>>3725235Maybe you could keep the tonality you're using here, but lighten it a bit more?
>>3725242I can proooobably get it looking less metallic with enough time.I guess I'll see what I can do on that front later on.I think it's come out rather well so far, it's easier to edit in this scenario because I kept everything on a different layer for once.
>>3725254This might also work.You may as well also say what extra decorations you want on it in the meantime. I likely won't have the opportunity to do any more edits tonight.
>>3724759>>3724763I hope you settle on one so I can finally put it on there.>>3725242I'll see what I can do.
After making those Liliesviel edits, my desire to get her the Third Magic has only increased.Think how happy she would be.After all those centuries, she is the one that reclaims the Third. And she also gets a superpowered Elder Brother. She has a smile I want to protect. I want her to be strong enough to stand up to Circe and Tsubaki when we're plotting world domination. I just realised, discussing the creation of a palace with our allies will be even more fun now>"it needs to have huge open spaces!">"it needs to have lots of greenery and plants!">"it needs to be a Castle and have lavish furnishings!">"it needs to have black-out blinds!">"I don't really mind, Saber.">"it needs to have storage cupboards!"
>>3725339>inb4 we end up like C-Gil
>>3725339I bet we could go on for hours on what sort of material it should be made from.Marble, Granite, Brick, etc.
>inb4 Circe and Adelheid agree on size>if only to accommodate all the children
>>3725352>Caster Gil but every time we almost manage to die of overwork, a combo of High Speed Divine Words, Third True Magic and a mass sacrifice resuscitates us.JUST LET ME FUCKING DIE.
>>3725362I get the feeling that there might end up being a lot of them some time after we reunite, yeah. Regardless, we can show off our superior parenting skills to INFERIOR SABER.
>>3725363>It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries...
>>3725363>resurrected just to continue workingTruly heinous.
>>3725387It's the 40K path. Don't believe me?>It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Age of Gods and the Age of Man. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.>Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Realm of Imaginary Numbers, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the manifestation of the Emperor's soul. Vast armies give battle in his name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Weltraumelitesoldat, the Space Marines, alchemically engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Waffen and countless planetary defence forces, the ever vigilant Gestapo and the tech-priests of the Genietruppe to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from aliens, heretics, mutants - and worse.>To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of magecraft, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
>>3725413>It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries Sweets has not posted an update.
>>3725477Look, I'm not a very fast writer.
>>3725481Inspiring words from Sweets-Loving QM. Stay tuned for more
"You'll have to get magical energy some other way tonight," you say. "This battle takes precedence over finding you a new energy source. I can't have you going out to hunt, either; there's a role I need you to play later. Perhaps you should draw energy out of the leylines after all."Kōrakuhime's eyes widen again; you can see a full circle of white around those iridescent irises. This time it isn't terror that colors her shock, though, but excitement; a faint blush rises to her cheeks at the same time, and you can feel her breath quickening. "Do you... mean that, Ani-ue," she asks, "you don't... mind the impact it would have on the humans?""We have more important matters to occupy our attention right now," you answer. "As far as I'm concerned, whatever side-effects your energy-drain creates are insignificant in the face of the immediate danger that's before us, provided the ritual does not point our enemies to our location.""Oh... thank you, Ani-ue," Kōrakuhime says, her quiet voice charged with restrained excitement. "I knew you wouldn't... let your compassion for the humans lead you astray!" Now it's her turn to surprise you, as she suddenly brings her face up out of your cupped hand to plant a soft kiss on your cheek. Before you can react, she's slipped out of her bed and left the room. Apparently her energy-collection ritual is something that must be done elsewhere.Still shocked by your sister's unexpected show of affection, it takes you a moment to recover before you get to your feet and follow her out of the room. Although her exit would have been a great way to end the conversation and get some of the time alone you've been craving, unfortunately you still need to explain what it is you expect Kōrakuhime to do during the fighting tonight. When you enter the corridor outside her bedroom, however, the girl is nowhere to be found. She's moving more quickly than you'd thought.After taking another look around the manor, you find Kōrakuhime down in Vaisset's old workshop, industriously placing talismans on the walls; each wall has four papers arranged in a diamond pattern, and apparently held in place by magic. "Kōrakuhime," you call out to get her attention as you enter. The girl doesn't look away from her work, but she does reply."What is it, Ani-ue? I'm... still preparing to... connect myself to the leyline here, right now.""That's excellent," you say, "but you ran off before I could tell you what I need from you tonight; why you're getting power this way right now instead of hunting on your own."Still not turning to look at you, she replies, "And what... is that, Ani-ue?""I need you to watch Emiya's house for me," you begin. "We've gained a general idea of what Emiya is capable of from the fact that he was unable to stand up to Berserker, but I'm worried about his wife; she's an unknown quantity with an enormous store of magical energy. If she's a skilled magus, she could be an extraordinarily dangerous foe."
"What is it that... you would like me to do about her, then?" A talisman begins to glow with faint blue light as Kōrakuhime presses on it, tracing the archaic script with her black-gloved fingertip. She still isn't turning to face you as she speaks."At first, you're to do nothing," you answer. "Follow at a distance when Miss Ayaka and I travel to the Emiya residence to discuss tonight's battle-plan. Find somewhere inconspicuous to wait, and observe us by divination. If I give you a signal, or if the house's occupants do anything suspicious, incapacitate them. Kill them if you absolutely need to, but try to just knock them out.""...Understood," Kōrakuhime replies after a pause. "I hope... everything goes as you intend tonight, Ani-ue.""So do I," you say. "I only hope I'm not putting too much faith in those two." Even now, you're not certain about Niemand. What sort of being is he, anyway? A Servant, masking his power somehow; another homunculus, not conforming to the typical appearance; or is he a magus employed by the Einzberns to aid Liliesviel? Knowing so little about someone who could be either an ally or an enemy is thoroughly frustrating. Before you can expand on your concerns to Kōrakuhime, however, the girl speaks up again."Ani-ue, would you mind letting me... perform this ritual alone? Having another Servant in the room... could disrupt the flow of energy.""Oh, of course," you say. "I'll see you in an hour or two, then." With that, you turn and leave the basement.It's just after six, by your watch. You should probably leave to see Emiya by eight. Kōrakuhime is engaged with replenishing her magical energy, and Ayaka has sequestered herself in her bedroom, presumably still trying to sort out how she feels about what Liliesviel said to her. For the time being, you can finally take the break you've been looking for. In high spirits, you make your way to the Shijou library (with the basement occupied, it's the only available place to practice magic) and spend a productive hour improving the finesse of your elemental manipulation. In addition to dexterously using two, then three, and finally five tendrils of Nothingness simultaneously, you practice shaping it into a few other objects: a steel sword with a leather hilt; a bow made of an uncertain black material, which shows excellent strength and flexibility; a replica of one of the library's books; all seem to have their details filled in from some source other than your conscious conception of the object, responding to the simple impulse of "sword," "bow," or "book." At this point, you're fairly sure that what's happening is somehow beyond the basic elementalism that creates fireballs as described in Transcendental Principles of Elementalism. You suppose this, too, is an aspect of Heiligöffnungschwert's power.
Your watch chimes, notifying you that it's 7:15pm. The sun is dipping below the horizon. Time to go find Ayaka and make sure she's ready to see the Emiyas; at least they're not likely to insult her, you think with a dry chuckle. You'll try reaching out to her mentally first. 'Miss Ayaka,' you say, 'we ought to be leaving shortly, to go to the Emiya residence. Are you prepared?''Sure,' comes the reply, sounding far more energetic than you'd expected. 'Are you ready to go, Saber-san?''Yes, I'll meet you at the car in just a moment,' you send back. 'I just need to confirm things with Kōrakuhime.' Apparently Ayaka really has worked through her insecurity since getting home; or she's at least resolved to put on a mask of determination so that this evening's work can go well. Either way, it's one less thing for you to be concerned with. An optimistic mood quickens your steps as you return to the basement and Vaisset's workshop. If everything this evening goes as smoothly as your Master's emotional recovery, you'll have made an enormous step towards victory by tomorrow.Kōrakuhime meets you coming out of the basement as you move to descend, prompting you to stop and talk on the stairs, accentuating the already significant height difference between you. "I... felt your presence approaching," she explains. "It's... time to depart, is it... not?""That's right," you answer. "I trust your energy collection went without trouble?""Perfectly," she answers with a tiny smile. "With this ritual, I am in... ideal condition.""Good," you say. "Then let's go. You'll follow the car."Ayaka is waiting in the car when you arrive, looking as renewed as she sounded earlier. As you pull out of the garage and begin the short drive to the Emiya residence, you deicide to confirm things one more time. It's as good a way of making conversation as any other. "Are you feeling better now, Miss Ayaka?" You put some concern into your voice, keeping up the facade of gallantry you've been putting on for the girl since being summoned. If you ever meet Yumigawa Rushorou, you'll have to remember to thank him for spending so much time faking emotions; the practice in your memories has been enormously useful."Somewhat," she replies. "I thought about what you said, and decided to just try and face forward for now. Even if I'm not a great magus, and I don't know what I'll do after the War without Nii-san, that's not what I have to think about right now. It's enough to just focus on what could kill us right now, and make sure I don't end up the way he did.""Good job," you say, and this time the warmth in your tone is real. If Ayaka can put her personal concerns aside and focus on the War, it's enormously heartening. "Focus is essential, Miss Ayaka. As long as you can go on surviving, the future will sort itself out." Or you'll sort out her future, at any rate. It's advice calculated to increase her dependence on you, but that doesn't make it completely disingenuous.
You park around the corner from Emiya's house and walk the short distance there. By now you can no longer feel Kōrakuhime's presence following you; she must be hiding it to prevent detection by Emiya or Tohsaka. When you ring the doorbell, it's the Emiyas' Rider who greets you."Saber," she says coldly, looking at you with identical hostility to that of your previous meetings. "And Shijou-san. Come in. Sakura, Shirou, and Rin are waiting for you." You follow the icy woman into Emiya's cozy living room to see the three aforementioned people all sitting around the table. As expected, Emiya himself is a stark contrast to his Servant, greeting you with a wide smile."Saber, Shijou-san, come in and sit down," he says cheerily. "You're just in time!""Oh? What is it we've arrived for, then," you ask as you take your seat at one of the empty places. "We had dinner early tonight," Emiya says, his tone quickly becoming serious, "and we're planning to leave now for the latest burned house. I'm hoping Berserker's Master won't be there yet if we arrive just before dark." He turns to Ayaka as he continues, "That way we can find a bit of evidence that you can use to lead us to the Servant that's hunting families, instead of being delayed by Berserker."Of course. You hadn't considered it earlier, but Emiya's first priority is saving lives. If he wants to chase down Kōrakuhime, it would make sense for him to alter his plans to avoid Berserker before developing a strategy to defeat him. Unfortunately for you, this throws the plan you and Liliesviel assembled this afternoon into disarray. By the time you get to the house where you met Kōrakuhime, it will surely be no later than nine. Too early for even suburban families to reliably be asleep. Even if you don't beat him there, you doubt Lumenza will be willing to fight given the policy of secrecy maintained by Organization magi. >[ ] There's nothing for it. You'll just have to strike now. Attack the Emiyas when they're not expecting it, and hope you can handle them without Liliesviel's help. (Pride)>[ ] Even so, you've planned tonight out too much to change matters now. There's no other option but to go with the Emiyas as planned, and hope Lumenza attacks despite the time. (Duty)>[ ] Now that you think of it, you have another idea that may just resolve things. (Write in)
I think we can distract them from pursuing Tsubaki by telling them who Berserker is and our reasoning for it.Berserker's an invincible Greek hero, so he's either Heracles or Achilles. Team Shirou know what Heracles looks like, so the inevitable conclusion is Achilles.Also, I didn't know roasted ambrosia was so heavy.
>>3725565>[ ] Now that you think of it, you have another idea that may just resolve things. (Write in)Tell Shirou that Berserker is Achilles, since he was invincible and his body was covered in gold; remind him of the legend that Achilles was anointed in ambrosia and held in the fire, which would explain his golden skin.>>3725613here
>>3725616That doesn't resolve much though.We could however suggest that the Master of Berserker is teaming up with another servant in order to lead people into a trap, why else would he be lying in wait? The best course of action is to defeat him in order to get to the rogue servant, who he's likely protecting anyway. (Hahaha.)After that, suggest that the best course of action would be to set up a trap for Lumenza, then, once we've defeated his Servant who we believe to be Achilles, we can interrogate him for the location of the rogue servant.
>>3725671Well, not the location, but details on then etc etc.Basically, we accuse Lumenza as doing exactly what we're doing.We can even say the nightly sacrifices could serve as a means to keep Lumenza's servant empowered to the degree he is.It's not a bad lie, I think.
>>3725565>[ ] Even so, you've planned tonight out too much to change matters now. There's no other option but to go with the Emiyas as planned, and hope Lumenza attacks despite the time. (Duty)Meh, fuck it. What's the worst that happens, we succeed at our original objective? >you deicideSoon Alberich, s00n
>>3725671>That doesn't resolve much though.The idea is that they can now think of a way to kill him. Medusa can restrain him and we can hurt him, so one plan might be to have her hold him long enough for us to cut him in half at the torso, and that means when his upper half flies away because of Medusa's pull the lower half will be easier to pin down so we can stab him in the heel.Although we should also go with your thing.
>>3725679>what's the worst that could happen?Shirou noticing that our magical presence is present in the house?
>>3725682So, how's about we tell them we already dealt with the family killer? Will this work? They gotta stop the war anyways, so then we can just make a habit of hunting berserker.
>>3725679>What's the worst that happensTsubaki gets hungry and goes crazy, forcing us to kill her.On the way back everyone is ambushed and killed by Lumenza.The Fuyuki Gang sniffs out Tsubaki and realizes we've been harbouring her.unlikely to near-impossible, but you asked for the worst thing
>>3725683They'll ask us for details, which forces us to fabricate a plausible narrative on the spot.
>>3725680Sure, but he needs the motivation to want to stop Berserker before the rogue servant.You don't think they realised it's Achilles?So if we can make Shirou believe that Lumenza is the best route to the rogue servant, we'll have a better shot.After all, there's no guarantee they left anything substantial enough for Ayaka to track and if we don't do something, even more people are going to die.
>>3725688Fabricating bullshit narratives is an Alberich specialty.
>>3725684>Tsubaki goes hungry and crazyShe already fed on the leylines.She really didn't understand that Alberich was annoyed with her making it obvious, not out of some compassion to the mundane world.
>>3725690This is why I'm suggesting we say Lumenza is working with the rogue.
>>3725693Or we could go the direct route and take the rogue out of the picture entirely. We could even say the false servant was an unfortunate byproduct of the ritual that created us, a loose end from the old grail war that we tied up quite neatly as the indomitable servant Saber. Ominous Foreshadowing AND direction!
>>3725694How about we don't do that and instead be sensible and do not reveal precious information on our origin frivolously.The rogue servant is a motivating factor for Shirou.Lumenza isn't, really.
>>3725696The grail war at large is his motivating factor. C'mon, think about it. We could even bullshit about the agony of choosing to kill someone you care about who became a monster in the name of the greater good, shaming the shit out of Emiya in the process! Think of the FUN!
>>3725689>You don't think they realised it's Achilles?They didn't seem to have realised after their first encounter, although I'll give them the benefit of the doubt because he was wearing the shroud until we ruined it and because they have Medusa (if we could see it in the Dead End without having to take it off then Medusa should have too).If they did realize, we might as well tell them for the sake of comparing notes.
>>3725699Anon your plan makes no sense. Shirou wouldn't go to the burnt house if we said we killed the servant there last night AND it gives Shirou and co more reason to be suspicious of us.
>>3725694>>3725699>telling them it was our faultTake this anon to the infirmary, he's insane.
>>3725700I suppose.After killing Berserker and backstabbing Niemand, imagine the fun of>"yeah, actually I was the one working with the rogue servant, who's now at your house. So no sudden moves!"Then we can get the true story of the Fifth war out of them.
>>3725708That WOULD be fun.
>>3725565>[ ] Now that you think of it, you have another idea that may just resolve things. (Suggest that the Master of Berserker is teaming up with another servant in order to lead people into a trap, why else would he be lying in wait? The best course of action is to defeat him in order to get to the rogue servant, who he's likely protecting anyway. After that, suggest that the best course of action would be to set up a trap for Lumenza, then, once we've defeated his Servant who we believe to be Achilles, we can interrogate him for the location of the rogue servant.)
>>3725721Yeah, this seems right.>>3725565I'm switching from >>3725616 to >>3725721
>>3725565>[ ] Now that you think of it, you have another idea that may just resolve things. (Suggest that the Master of Berserker is teaming up with another servant in order to lead people into a trap, why else would he be lying in wait? The best course of action is to defeat him in order to get to the rogue servant, who he's likely protecting anyway. After that, suggest that the best course of action would be to set up a trap for Lumenza, then, once we've defeated his Servant who we believe to be Achilles, we can interrogate him for the location of the rogue servant.)Hope this works.
If the whole superbetrayal plan does work out for us, we're gonna look so damn cool to Tsubaki.Just outplay absolutely everyone in a single move after setting up the pieces.That's the sort of power play you'd expect to see in the season finale of some anime.
>>3725742>we're gonna look so damn cool to TsubakiAnd Circe.
>>3725745Yeah.But we know Tsubaki is watching us.I mean, it's possible Circe is also watching us, but I don't know why she would put off our reunion, if she was.We do know that Circe does appreciate smarter heroes more than brute strength types though. I think.
>>3725565Stall by suggesting that we come up with a solid strategy for fighting berserker before going out there, due to the risk of meeting him again