Archives:http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=Lamplighter%20QuestTwitter: https://twitter.com/OuroQMQuestions: http://ask.fm/OuroQMCharacter Sheet: http://pastebin.com/4TrWRPPq
>>2302538“And here you all are once more. It’s been a few days, hasn’t it? And you’ve brought everyone this time. Good. Very good.”The voice of the Paper Bridesmaid conquers all other sound, not through simply drowning them out but quashing them. While she speaks mouths move in silent futility, the sound of the damned city outside dwindle to silence and all echoes cease.You are once more standing within her chambers, a tremendous and defiled sunroom atop the tower that shares her title. It smells of musty death and the floor is covered with a thick layer of discarded snakeskin that you and your companions leave footprints in as you walk. You do not spy the footprints that you and Alex must have left the last time you were here, nor the footprints of any of the Bridesmaid’s attendants. Something spins out new dead skin at a continuous rate through means unseen. ‘What the fuck are you supposed to be?”Beatrice seizes on a moment of silence, her vulgarity echoing through the immense room hundreds of times. She’s standing a few paces behind you before what you can only describe as the Bridesmaid’s nest. “I was told about you but…,” she makes a sweeping gesture at the abnormality before you all. “Who are you really?”“My name cannot be spoken with tongues.”The monster itself is still as it was when you first saw it, a lounging blasphemy that defies common reality. Defiled bride and massive serpent both, neither form acknowledging the other as they mingle and share the same space. And their eyes! A glint beneath the veil, an unblinking serpentine orb, both of which that give way for the pips of every dice you’ve ever seen in a roiling infinity. One eye tells you one thing, the other another. There’s no point trying to make sense of it now. It simply exists.Whatever the Bridesmaid is, it is of no import compared to the fact that she is one of the Sinners. But as deserving of death as that makes her, she is also helping you for selfish reasons of her own. The two of you, somewhat regrettably, made a deal. “We’ve seen each other before, Beatrice. I am flattered that you chose to wear my colours but I must regretfully inform you that I already have enough admirers as it is.”Beatrice tears her white-and-black peaked cap from her head but doesn’t let it go, clutching it to her chest. She quickly spares a glare for you.“Orion, is this really what’s been helping us? What the f-”“Trivial matters aside,” the monster says as Beatrice furiously tries to speak in silence, “I believe I’ve kept up my end of our bargain over the past few days?”1/2
>>2302542It’s been three days since you last met with the Bridesmaid, since Beatrice and Abraham both escaped from the Thorn. You’ve all been busy since then and mostly with the eedcloaks. Three days proved to be more than enough time for the news of the Iron Duke’s death to seep out and start panic. Without the Duke, there can be no green flame and without its half-light and half-warmth, Dis must eventually go cold and dark. And through all this panic and the ensuing riots, news of you has begun to spread. They don’t call you a Lamplighter, they deny you even that courtesy. Instead you are a ‘mad pyromancer’, a ‘dangerous fanatic’, a ‘deranged terrorist and leader of terrorists’. Significant effort has been made to paint you and your supporters, who are thankfully unknown to the authorities, as the ones to blame for Dis’ current crisis. And that is, in a certain facetious way, entirely true. But not in others! You’ve had your Redcloaks working with everyone they know to spread your own questions. Namely, who is it that quashed the true fire? Who placed Dis in this situation in the first place? Who made the green flame necessary? It hasn’t been working quite as well as some of the redcloaks had hoped, you could see it in their faces. They speak of faith and truth but the voice of Dis is so much louder and it can roar. And questioning the city they live in is much harder for some than what the voices accusing you demand, which is only that they continue to hate those they already did. But more has happened aside from that. Using the money you’ve come into, you and Alex were able to purchase the land rights to a small property to use as a true headquarters for you and your companions. Here you, Beatrice and Abe have been able to start training the redcloaks in the weapons you looted from the Duke’s old collection.The Bridesmaid also offered her help as you and Alex made the purchase, extending the reach of her considerable grasp for your aid. >You refused the offer. Your new headquarters might be small and stuck down in the Mazes with inhabited rooms on every possible side but it has thick walls and you aren’t beholden to this creature any more than you have to be.>You took advantage of her offer. Your new headquarters is more than big enough for all of you, is situated nicely away from anyone that may eavesdrop and is a better home than most of your redcloaks have ever personally known. It’s also much more secure, with barred windows and bolted doors.
>>2302547>You refused the offer. Your new headquarters might be small and stuck down in the Mazes with inhabited rooms on every possible side but it has thick walls and you aren’t beholden to this creature any more than you have to be.
I also just updated the character sheet, since I forgot to do that last thread.
>>2302547>You took advantage of her offer. Your new headquarters is more than big enough for all of you, is situated nicely away from anyone that may eavesdrop and is a better home than most of your redcloaks have ever personally known. It’s also much more secure, with barred windows and bolted doors.
>>2302547>>You refused the offer. Your new headquarters might be small and stuck down in the Mazes with inhabited rooms on every possible side but it has thick walls and you aren’t beholden to this creature any more than you have to be.
Vote called, writing.
>You refused the offer. Your new headquarters might be small and stuck down in the Mazes with inhabited rooms on every possible side but it has thick walls and you aren’t beholden to this creature any more than you have to be.“You have helped us,” you admit. “But not as much as I could have.”The creature’s tone is almost accusatory. “Our home is something we should handle ourselves,” Abe says. He looks visibly uncomfortable and he was worse in the elevator when you passed the kaleidoscope of depravity that was the Bridesmaid’s institution. He’s holding himself together better than Beatrice all the same. “But thanks for the offer all the same.”“Seems a foolish idea. I could have given you so much.”“And you still can.”You take a step forward and stop yourself from wincing as the dead skin crumbles around your boot. When you and Alex had left the Paper Bridesmaid for the first time, the two of you had agreed to keep the purchase of your new base of operations to yourselves. It may be modest but it is all you’ll need and you don’t want to be further beholden of this thing. You’re sure it can sniff out where you’re hiding regardless but there is a principle to the act. You’ll work with the Paper Bridesmaid but you won’t use her unless you have to.“We need your information. You promised it.”“And you promised to kill my friends and you’ve made no progress on that goal. I will answer some questions but not too much and not too soon. I have to hold some chips back to make sure you and I stay friends, you understand.”“I won’t ask about the brothers.”As much as you want to ask about the other bearers of the flame, that is a secret that you have promised not to seek from her until another Sinner is dead. “You don’t have to get on our backs to make us kill them,” Beatrice adds. “We’re here to fucking do that anyway.”The snake rears back and the woman sits up, one of her shaking arms passing straight through the snake’s tail as she does so. “To business, then? As much as it pains me to betray my once dear companions, I am bound!”The tainted bride makes an over-exaggerated swooning motion. The snake remains exactly as it is.“What do you want to know?”“You know what we want.”“Yes but you could at least have the decency to play along for a few moments. I am a poor girl faced with a moral dilemma. Here is the rugged hero that she has watched for so long from afar and she must choose between becoming part of his story or her beloved friends!”“No.”1/2
>>2302741“Fine, whatever. I guess that’s the danger of putting people on a pedestal, they never quite measure up when you actually meet them.”The voice, spoken by both woman and snake, puts on an act of indignation so absurd as to be farcical. “Ask away. You can have three questions but if you want more I’m afraid you’ll have to actually match my raise.”>You may choose three.>”Who are the Sinners?”>”Where are the shards kept?”>”For what purpose are the shards being used?”>”Why did you all agree to commit that atrocity?”>”What are you? No misdirection.”>”How did you kill the Sun?”>”Why did you try to recruit Beatrice?”>”What would you do if we actually won?”>"Why this house of sin? What do you get out of it?">Ask what you can give her that will let her be more forthcoming. >You're not here to play games. Either she tells you everything or you walk out that door.>Ask something else (Specify)
>>2302745>>”Who are the Sinners?”>>”Where are the shards kept?”>>”How did you kill the Sun?”
>>2302745>”For what purpose are the shards being used?”>”How did you kill the Sun?”>”Where are the shards kept?”
>>2302745>”Who are the Sinners?”>”Where are the shards kept?”>”For what purpose are the shards being used?”
>>2302745>>2302758Voting for this.
>>2302745>>2302758ThisWe can probably figure out how the shards are being used ourselves guys. Some of them probably aren't being used at all.
Vote will remain open for another ten minutes or so.InterludeThe Inspector-General patted down his newly-cleaned suit and coat as he walked down the boulevard, columns of green flame framing the aerial street on either side. The crypt loomed up ahead, an ornate tower styled in imitation to the monuments in the chasm beyond Dis’ walls. Only the greatest and richest would ever get interred within these walls of stone and steel. It should be a honour, he supposed, that he was here for this ceremony at all. But it didn’t feel that way. This was a waste of his time!He passed through the first cordon of security along the walkway to the crypt, a small group of green-cloaked Consortium officers on patrol with black armbands wrapped awkwardly around their armour to signify their loss. A token attempt at security but it didn’t matter. Nothing would get past what is inside. He slipped past the small crowds of people gathering at the far end of the walkway, citizens of all kinds presenting invitations to the guards and slowly filtering in. He had no need for that, he just had to wave his Mistress’ pass to past without question.Still, despite his attempt at haste, some fragments of the crowd sought him out all the same. A man and a woman in the somber black uniforms of the Last Guild, apparently shiftily awaiting their invitations to be approved.“Oh! I say! You there! You’re here representing one of the departed’s friends, aren’t you?”“Yes?”The Inspector had nothing but respect for the Last Guild’s beliefs, one of the more common cults devoted to the Old Powers in the city. They were gravediggers and tombkeepers and apparently wanted nothing more than each and every corpse to sleep forever within the blessed earth. But he didn’t pretend to understand them either.“Then you must agree that this is a travesty! Someone as upstanding as His Grace deserves the finest burial, not this...this mistake!”It was going to be an odd ceremony, that much he agreed with them. The corpse was not going to be subsumed in earth or burned or anything that would give it into the care of gods light or dark. Instead, the rumours had it, it was going to be put on preserved display in the tomb forever. The Inspector had not known him well but he suspected that they would not want it any other way.“It’s not my place to say.”“But it is an insult to the gods! It is an insult to his legac-”1/2
>>2302993“I will be the judge of that,” someone said icily as the doors behind them opened. Both the Inspector and the Guildsmen turned to see the doorway filled with a inchoate wall of mud and stone. And then it moved and stooped, revealing itself to be a golem thrice their size. It was, once the eye lost its confusion, quite well made, no sloppy mudman look that usually characterized such creatures. Instead it was practically carved and what parts of it were mud stayed solid and kept their shape. A gaunt creature with a long torso and long limbs and a cylindrical head of decorated stone and behind it, a thin tail could be faintly seen. It was a monster but even more so was the thing it was carrying, a bundled up and shadowed figure clutched tightly to the golem’s chest, held within the crook of one clawed arm. A chill seeped through the air like a miasma. The Inspector was quick to bow but the Guildsmen were too shocked.“Uh…,” one of them said.“It is a strange thing,” the witch and the Inspector’s former mentor continued, “to say that you know more of the god’s will then I. How odd! Should I inform my pilgrims that they should take their wailing and crawling to the Guild instead? I had no idea you were all so learned. And what would I know? I merely speak to them.”Her voice, which had started harsh, was only growing worse with every word. “We’re sorry!”“Get out. Your invitation is rescinded. And you! Where is your mistress? Why are you here?”The Inspector cowered in what he hoped was an appropriately respectful manner, the memories of the golems chasing after him through Undertown still all too fresh. “I am here in her place. She cannot attend.”There was a long silence. When next the witch spoke, her voice was trembling with barely contained rage. “I see. I wasn’t looking forward to that forked tongue of hers but this…”Another long pause.“Might as well come on in then. We’ve got a whole day of commemoration for this dead metal moron and I’m not missing any of it.”
>>2302999The golemist....respected the duke? I suppose that makes sense.
>>2303162I imagine she made his body
>>2303300I'd let the Golemist make my body What does the Golemist look like?
>>2303341She's a second man.So imagine a TOL nerd elf
>>2303351So she's shiny and more slightly built than Orion or even Bea?I wonder if the Second Men wrote BLACKED porn about their women and First Men.
>>2303405Nah. Second men were frail compared to thirds. Tall and thin, big headed and pointy eared.
Apologies for the very long delay on this update.>>”Who are the Sinners?”>>”Where are the shards kept?”>>”How did you kill the Sun?”This nonsense about questions was not part of the deal you struck but you suppose you’ll have to abide by it. There’s no point to trying to fight over something so relatively trivial, not when the names and faces of all your targets are so close at hand! This bargain could be the turning point, the pivot from where the world will swing back towards the light. “Who are the Sinners? I know there were seven of you.”“More or less true. There were others involved in the whole affair but they all belonged to one of us. It was us seven that made the pact, each provided an instrumental role and took a piece of what he had broken. No doubt you already have some suspicions involving the Sable Imp Fellowship, correct?”“Yes.”“Well it was, in a sense, entirely their idea to being with. They were the starting spark of it all.”“Why?,” Beatrice asks.“I’m afraid you don’t get to ask questions. So let’s see, seven Sinners! You had me, of course, and along with me you had Marcel, Maria, Rene, Albert, Agatha and Thomas. Do those names mean anything to you? Probably not, nor would they to most of the city I’d wager. We were on a first name basis with each other but I doubt with anyone else. So...here we go! Dear departed Marcel was the Iron Duke and you’ve already dealt with him quite handily. Maria lives down in some nasty hole within the skeleton of a god with a bunch of golems and can be a little cranky. She’s a witch and the only one of us who is. She also owes me a lot and I think she hates it. Rene runs the Sable Imp Fellowship with his partner and is, to my understanding, very rich. Has his fingers in a lot of lucrative businesses you know, raising the dead, dredging up imps, mining, contracting imps, domesticating humans…”The woman ticks off her fingers while the snake speaks. “A lot. Very nice and I owe him a lot but a little too professional for my tastes. Albert is...ah, what a little wretch! I say that in a fond way though. He runs the Black Iron Docks out by the shore. Pompous, sweats a lot, kind of a discount Rene really. Also does some quaint little newsletter thing that I don’t care to read. Agatha was a magistrate who worked for the Senate. Old family there, running right back to the First. I never really spoke to her much because I made her uncomfortable and she was always about protocol this, politics that. Thomas is a bit of a boor, he runs the Tangle Workshop and is always going on about ‘scholarly duty to mankind’ and other nonsense. I don’t like him because I don’t like mankind. I want Man to die and I’d really appreciate it if you trashed a bunch of his stupid charity branch hospitals before you killed him. And that’s it! All seven of us!”1/4
>>2303439Not the level of detail you were hoping for but it does give you a list of targets and an idea where to find each of them. You don’t need to know anything about their personal lives after all. Even their names are ultimately meaningless. Still, something about the witch’s description sounds vaguely familiar to you…“That’ll do for now. Where are the shards being kept?”“You see, while I obviously know everyone I collaborated with, I don’t know the exact whereabouts of all of their shards. They don’t have the same attitude to treasure as me, I’m afraid. They actually want to be secretive about it! Some are more obvious than others. Anyone with a brain knew exactly what the Consortium was using theres for and I assume that’s how you found them so easily. But after that it gets muddier. Albert talks constantly about using it as the solar engine of some incredible dreadnought or another but he owns a dozen shipyards so I don’t know where said hypothetical dreadnought is. I don’t even know what he plans to use it for! Betray us all and take over Dis? Doesn’t make a lot of sense if you can only do it from the muddy shoreline. I don’t know the exact whereabouts of what Maria is doing with hers but it can’t possibly be far from DInu’s Bones. It’d be easy to say that it’s kept somewhere in the skull since that’s her little sanctum but I don’t know if she’d actually want to live with the accursed thing. I don’t have the foggiest idea where Rene keeps his. It’s probably in the Fellowship somewhere or maybe Undertown, the real Undertown, but I can’t truly say. Agatha is another mystery, compounded by the fact that she’s been dead for years. I can tell you where her family estate is, they might know. It might even a family heirloom! And as for Thomas, that’s a queer one. There are two very obvious possibilities for him and yet while each one is so obvious, they both preclude the other. They can’t both be right!”The bride and the snake pass through each once more, apparently unaware of the irony of what they just said.“What about it?”“It was warm,” Abe says. “The Thorn is alive and it’s warm. That has to be it, isn’t it?” Behind him, Beatrice shuts her mouth and glares at him, apparently having been just about to point out the same thing.2/4
>>2303451“Yes and no. Being in the Thorn is a very good answer, a very obvious one. But have you heard of the Chemist? That’s not a question I need your input on incidentally. He works with the Workshop and he’s apparently the source of their wonderful tonics from which they derive all their compounds and brews. They keep his home wrapped up under extremely tight guard, tighter than the Thorn itself and nobody knows anything about him or how he can do what he does. Nobody else can replicate the tonic. So you see why I’m perplexed. They have two very obvious locations for their shard and they can’t both be right. Second question answered! One question remains.”“I know.”You think for a moment.“This might not be relevant to the task at hand but how did you do it? How did any of you kill the Sun?”“Never underestimate the power of friendship!”Your grip around your makeshift stave tightens. On such a topic, her unchanging attitude suddenly seems abominable.“Give me an appropriate answer.”“Okay. We boarded it.”“What?”“What do you mean what? How do you think it floats around the sky all day? It’s a ship. Not what you’d traditionally call a ship, a bit too spherical and concentric for that but one all the same. It’s also the Wheel God while simultaneously carrying the Wheel God within itself. Gods can be many things at once, witches know this.”“How did you do that?”“Simple. Are you sure you want me to answer though? I can see you’re getting upset.”“Just answer the question already.”“At the end of every day, the Sun must dip down into the eastern Sea of Mud to submerge himself and recharge from the Flame that still sleeps within the boiling mud. Come dawn, he emerges from the other side and begins the day anew. But you already knew about that, didn’t you? Common knowledge. So we decided to mug him when he came home. Sun sinks to the horizon, ready to sink into the sea but surprise! A lot of big heavy-duty boats have sailed out really far to meet him! And on those ships are a lot of very special very nasty chains made from who-knows-what. Golem chains and worse. Grabbed hold of the sun with the help of some golems, since those things are meant to be more or less fireproof, it’s their entire point. They burned all the same. The golems baked. And while they did all that, our resident master Flame Artist parted the shroud of flame that the Wheel God wears and allowed us entry. All seven of us along with well, a bit of a motley crew. Golems and imps riding people and man-made Tangle monsters. But the inside was full of defenses and even though we had copies of a map from the Senate archives it was no easy going! I’ll spare you the grisly details of our struggles save the fact that it was very wise of us to have found experts on both the technology of the Second Men and the physiologists of the First."
>>2303457"I’ll also not speak of what we found in the centre, for your sake not mine. But once we were done the holy reactors stopped spinning and God’s essential core, the mighty fragment ripped from the Wayward Flame’s corpse, was smote into a dozen different pieces! We weren’t ready for the explosion when the containment failed but that’s life, isn’t it? It was a wondrous adventure indeed, full of heroism and sacrifice. I say with no small amount of sincerity that we all owe one another our lives and it is thus a tragedy that I now have to ask you to kill as many of them as you can.”You’re not listening. Or at least, you’re trying not to listen. But the voice of the Bridesmaid cannot be overcome through means physical or mental. You cannot help but hear it. You tried to tell it to stop but of course it didn’t work, your lips forming around empty words and silent pleas. You are gripping the plundered tail so hard that it hurts. This is it....a wondrous adventure indeed…The death of your God....decided to mug him when he came home…The death of humanity with him....a bit of a motley crew…The dying of the flame...full of heroism and sacrifice…The root cause of every single instant of suffering that you had seen in the past thirty years....very special very nasty chains made from who-knows-what…The collapse of the world....but that’s life, isn’t it?...And here it is all being spoken of so goddamned flippantly! So patronisingly! As if you were a child! If she had gloated, if she had boasted of the final victory of the dark over the children of light...you probably would have been able to accept it better. That is a foulness you were ready for. You weren’t ready for them to speak of it as it barely meant anything to them at all. “Oh dear, I’ve gone and offended you, haven’t I? I even spared you the worst details of it all. You chose to ask this.”A hand grabs hold of your shoulder. It takes an effort to move your neck, your body frozen into a painful rigor mortis without you even knowing it, but when you look around you see Beatrice reaching up to you. A moment later and Abe is on your other side, grabbing hold of you as if to steady you. You can feel it welling up inside of you like flame within a furnace. Something that you have always carried in you but has not felt so strong, so biting for decades. It makes you want to scream, to strike, to move in any way save the frozen statue that you are now. You are fireproof and yet you feel like you are burning alive. 4/5
>>2303462You have been angry before. You have been furious. You traffic in violence, the feeling is a constant companion. But it has been a long time since you’ve felt your stomach churn sickeningly with that hideous mix of grief and wrath. You can’t express it properly. You will never. Before in the past, when you saw what happened to your watchtower, when you were confronting the witch responsible out by the edge of the wasteland, you had just let it wash over you and you shut down and became something else. You had been like the flame itself then, a scourging punishing thing..“Orion! Are you okay?”You take a long breath and then just as quickly as it had been called forth, you swallow it back down and send it away. It twists up your guts in its passage as if you had eaten nails.>”Thank you for the assistance.” You will be going now.>”Don’t you feel nothing?">You were planning to deal with this creature after all the other shards had been taken but no. You kill her now.>”You’re very lucky that you still have so much left to offer.”>Stay silent.>Other (Specify)
>>2303470>>”Thank you for the assistance.” You will be going now.
>>2303470>"Your time will come serpent." Leave.
>>2303470>”Thank you for the assistance.” You will be going now.
>>2303341>>2303351>>2303405The Golemist herself is wrapped up in some kind of animate shadow thing but as has been noted, Second Men are taller, frailer and, going by what Orion thought of the Second Age statues outside of the Paper Bridesmaid, have proportions that are unrealistic by Third Man standards. As to her actual physicality, the only thing really mentioned is that the top of the Inspector's head only comes up to her chin.>>2303426Well, no pointy ears.
>>2303500inspector confirmed manlet
>>2303470>>”Thank you for the assistance.” You will be going now.>the sun is literally a weird esoteric holy machineI don't know what to make of this. What was at the center? And there were maps of the internals of the sun, meaning people had been to it before, or did they construct it in the first place? I'm intrigued Ouro!
>>2303457>It’s a shipA modern day Tolkien, Ouro. >>2303470>”You’re very lucky that you still have so much left to offer.”I don't feel good about keeping her alive, but I can see the advantages. I do have a question though, could a new sun be forged from the latent flames at the bottom of the Sea of Mud? Could the deepest depths' flames be dredged up and placed in some kind of metal or ceramic vessel and placed on the dead sun?
>>2303506He's a little taller than Orion actually, just nowhere near as built.
>>2303510The pilot at the heart of the sun was a first man in a second man machine. Or hell, the heart of the machine may have been a first man itself. The fragments that Orion carries could be literal pieces of a first man.
>>2303500>the Inspector's head only comes up to her chin.This anon is right >>2303506For some reason I really want to make a Virgin Third Man, Chad Second Man or Virgin Second Man, Chad First Man comic now.
>>2303522The Wheel God himself was more then a man, it's possible there was a pilot inside though, but there was still a divine being in there somewhere.
>>2303531Err, herself? I remember that still being up in the air.
>>2303531How does Orion know what a First Man was like beyond stories he's heard from ages past? Maybe all First Men were like god damn Demi Gods, doing shit as they pleased. The first people from Assassin's Creed for instance.
>>2303470>You were planning to deal with this creature after all the other shards had been taken but no. You kill her now.
>>2303539According to the Bridesmade, the Sun as Orion and everyone sees it is an enormous ship.
>>2303510It's far from an unknown theological theory to Orion that the sun had an artificial component. After all it is something that was explicitly made and thanks to stuff like stars, metal men and Wax Saints, the Lamplighters are very familiar with the idea of holy machines. Also while the sun was initially constructed in the First Age, the Wheel God getting an overhaul in the Second Age with the new tech isn't improbable.
>>2303531Maybe there wasn't>I’ll also not speak of what we found in the centre, for your sake not minePerhaps the wheel god is nothing more than a machine powered by the corpse of the wayward flame. A false god built to replace the dead one.>>2303551I really want to know how big it is now.
>>2303470>>”Thank you. There will come a day that I will ask you to go more into detail.” You will be going now.
>>2303551She mentioned the God piloting and powering the ship, and there have been conflicting reports on whether or not said God was a male or a female. Or I'm thinking of the Wayward Flame.
>>2303566Shit, they really did loose a lot of knowledge between the second and third ages then. Forgetting the nature of the thing that allows life as you know it to exist is pretty serious.
>>2303587The pilot must've been a huge slut with exposed ankles.
Vote called for leaving, writing.>>2303587It was the Wayward Flame that Orion and Beatrice bickered about the gender. Lamplighter theology pegs it as a male creature while witch-lore refers to it as female. The Wheel God is seen as masculine by both parties.
>>2303614Shit, what was the wayward flame again?
We need to get an airship boys. Also need to visit / break into the archives and see what we can learn about the sun.Do we even need to get all the shards first? I don't see why we would.but from a meta perspective I feel like we do
>>2303621It's what lit up and warmed the word before the Sun. It's either the power source of the Wheeled God/Sun or a parent, or something like that.
>>2303640The Wayward Flame was also responsible for killing the old gods and creating the first men if I remember correctly. He / she came from the void beyond the world.
Ouro why is it called the "Wheel God"? Is it symbolism for the cyclic nature of the sun?
>>2303659The wheel representing the Sun is something taken a bit from real life, where it is a solar symbol in bronze age europe.
>>2303648That too, then the moon followed her/him, and when the Sun died the moon turned red. Wait. Is the Moon also a ship? Can we hop on the Moon?
>>2303666In-universe, the name derives from the symbol of the sun, the same symbol that the Lamplighters use in their cloaks, that of a spoked wheel whose spokes extend past the rim. This was intended to evoke the image of rays of sunlight, the Wheel God's primary weapon.
>>2303674In Lamplighter theology, the Moon was a female First Man who ascended through the same means that the Wheel God/Sun did. Just what those means are are generally just theoretical by Third Age understanding but to them whatever exactly made the Sun, also caused the Moon.According to Beatrice's witch-lore, the Moon is an Old Power of Earth that is actually still alive and benevolent. It fled to the sky to escape from the Wayward Flame but then made a deal with the Wheel God for its survival.
>>2303684It sounds like the Lamplighters may be right this time. At least, more correct than the witches. From what we've learned about the Sun, I would posit that the Moon is a similar ship, piloted by First Men, and that its reddening is thanks to more intense heat in the Sea of Mud since the Sun is no longer able to sap it each night to refuel itself.
>>2303693Why make the moon though? Compromise because the sun needs to recharge but you don't want the night to be pitch black? But why not just have two suns then?>that its reddening is thanks to more intense heat in the Sea of Mud since the Sun is no longer able to sap it each night to refuel itself.That's a solid theory though!
>>2303732>why not just have two suns then?Because without night your sleep schedule and health get all fucked up. Play the Banner Saga if you want a setting with no night, it has some similarities to Lamplighter, and they're great games.
Sorry about the delay btw, eating.
>>2303684Almost like Orion is the sun, and Beatrice the moon. Two "enemies" who worked together for a common goal maybe...
>>2303848>I don't like dirt, it's messy and gritty and musty, and it gets everywhere.
Blegh. Just felt dead tired all of a sudden out of nowhere.>”Thank you for the assistance.” You will be going now.With some difficulty, you ungrit your teeth and push your companions away. You don’t need their help. Just the idea of having so very nearly succumbed in front of them makes your head buzz. You are their leader. You have a duty and a responsibility. Neither of them need to ever see you weak. “Thank you for the help,” you manage to say. “I may need some more details later.”“Sure. Now get out of here before you pop a vein, you’re not fooling anyone.”“I’m fine.”“If you say so. Though you know, if you need a way to blow off steam I’m sure I can provide…”Their voice trails off into a mental dimension that you don’t even wish to conceive of. “We will be leaving now. Thank you again.”A silence falls as you tread slowly back to the elevator, discarded skin crunching beneath your feet. The Paper Bridesmaid says nothing and you don’t look back. Abe and Beatrice both join you in the elevator, neither saying anything. When the elevator is descending, you turn away and avert your eyes from the obscene sights running through the building’s core. It is only once you are out, past the lowermost gambling hall and out onto the bridge between the towers, that you let yourself speak once more.“That went well.”Beatrice looks warily at you, spacing herself just of your arms reach. She thinks you don’t see her doing it.“Did it?,” she asks.“Yes.”Your face and tone must tell them that there is no room for disagreement or questioning on this matter. “We will go back and meet with the others. It’s time to choose our next target.”What other purpose do you need?>The Tangle Workshop.>The Black Iron Docks.>Dinu’s Bones.>The Sable Imp Fellowship.>The Senate Magistrates.>Other (Specify)
>>2303904>>>The Black Iron Docks.I'm against shitting on the workshop first. There's no way we won't look like the bad guys.
>>2303904>DocksLess vital than the workshop to the people and hopefully less easily defended than the golemist we heard about from the journal and the imp fellowship
>>2303904>The Black Iron Docks.
You run so late Ouro, I'll have to catch up in the morning.
>>2303904I think I need a little nap. I'll be back later tonight in a few hours. Vote will remain open until then.
>>2303904Black Iron Docks, or Sable Imp FellowshipDocks would be the safer bet, but cutting out the Imps now would prevent a larger amount of people signing up to be Imped as the chaos and panic descends.
Docks, and light more lamps throughout the city
>>2303904>The Black Iron Docks.If we can capture that dreadnought, or any other dreadnought, it would be really great. Also this Albert sounds like a softer target than others.
>>2302999How interesting, there's a surviving god. Other than the Moon, depending on the source.
>>2303451>There are two very obvious possibilities for him and yet while each one is so obvious, they both preclude the other. They can’t both be right!”Unless one of the others gave up their shard.
>>2303457>from the Flame that still sleeps within the boiling mud.I guess this is the source of the 'dredged up the corpse of the Wayward Flame' myth came from.>and man-made Tangle monsters.Monsters were possible even before the shard. >>2303904>>The Tangle Workshop.Since it's unlikely that the Tangle's gotten far in replicating a gunpowder witch, Bea is still irreplaceable to them. We can use that, but only until the replication is complete. Once that runs out, we can't use her as bait or a hostage anymore.
So. Sable Imps' idea, they needed Agatha for maps and Senate stuff. Needed Golemist for chains and Iron Duke-making.Needed Marcel to let them in, needed a shipbuilder for ships. Needed Spinnae for First Man knowledge.So why did they need the snake? She deftly evaded mentioning her part in this.
I'd say to hit the docks. More likely to just be plain old humans there instead of running into the Imp place that's likely full of...well, Imps. I'd prefer to run in there with double the literal fire-power if at all possible.No comment about prior possibilities on that frontHowever, if Bote Boi is making a "dreadnaught" then it's likely they're plenty militarized, so I wouldn't expect to just walk in there either. Also, and this is a long shot, but if we were to somehow, you know, steal this giant ship...presumably with huge guns....Just saying.
>>2304225Considering that we're taking the power source, not likely as a whole. The real question is how much of it we'll be able to take home, and which weapons can be powered with alternative means, like Flame Arts.We don't really have a way yet to advertise for Flame talents, though. The Senate Magistrate should have all the records. A list of people to pressgang into service should be in there.
>>2304232We don't actually need the power source immediately. The ship might be more useful than the spark at the moment.
>>2304232A shard in the ship might be more useful than a shard in our Lamp for a time.>>2304197Like Agatha, who doesn't need hers anymore.
>>2304241>>2304249I don't think that would ever be a possible option for Orion.
>>2304250We have just witnessed Orion's excellent self-control for the good of the mission.
Vote called. Writing.
>>2304276I really want to trigger her boss fight...
>>2304468>he wants to trigger a fight with a creature that might be a literal (minor) godmadman!
>>2304509Come on, it would be so fun! Anyway, she's tangled up in Fate, not a god. Probably.
>>2304541I think she's a minor god or a demigod or something, if she was something lesser we should know about her from our knowledge of witch lore. She exists as multiple entities simultaneously, and seems to have power over the abstract concept of fate / luck. She's also said her name can't be spoken, which is consistent with what we know of the witch signs (the unspeakable names of the old powers).
>Black Iron DocksThe three of you walk back along the network of bridges that connect the cluster of towers that the Paper Bridesmaid lurks within. You all stand up in this upper class crowd but not in an alarming manner and you blend in more and more with every step you take downward.‘So,” Beatrice says, clearly eager to turn to a different subject, any subject. “What kind of target do you have in mind?”“Should we really talk about it now?”Abe is at your other side, looking fretfully from person to person within the crowd around you.“Nobody listens to anyone here. And besides, your rubbernecking isn’t helping you look innocent either.”Beatrice has pulled her peaked cap down as far as she can get it, tilting it and using her hair to obscure as much of her ruined face as possible. “Just wait until we get back,” you tell them. “But whatever we choose, we’ll be doing it soon.”“But it’s been a few days since...that other job,” Abe says. “You sure that’s wise? I was thinking that we might want to lay low for a while, especially after that close shave with me and Bea.”“Time has become our enemy. We’ve already spent longer than we should.”None of you should ever let yourself be fooled into thinking Dis not your enemy. This entire city is, in some way or another, against you. You cannot fight the city. To do so would invite the death that the Bridesmaid prophesied. You can only elude it and take advantage of its confusion. But every day that passes without a victory, the claws of Dis come ever closer to finding you. Your new headquarters are modest but are still a step up from that stolen little storeroom you had been using before. And it is property that you actually truly own, having used the money from the emeralds to purchase the land rights for a small apartment wedged halfway through the substrate of the Mazes. The three of you take the quickest way there, navigating the top layer of the Maze until you spot the crowded stairway with the rusted sign reading, among many other destinations, ‘New Sump’. Following those stairs for five hundred paces and then turning left leads you to a small and claustrophobic cube hollowed out from a residential block, with apartments forming the walls, ceiling and floor. In the center of the little square is a massive circular trapdoor that has been propped open for so long that the hinges have rusted into a single unmoving lump. Below is a deep hexagonal chute with a ladder on each side. Resting your weight uneasily upon the rungs, you start the climb down. 1/4
>>2304566Apparently there had been a tower here once, a very long time ago. Some accident or malevolence had toppled it over centuries ago and the entire thing had been scavenged into nothing, Dis’ peculiar manmade erosion. The only exception being the bottom few levels which had remained standing like a withered tree stump until the ever-rising Mazes had completely grown over and around them. Very few traces of even that part of the tower is left, the Mazes having melded it into its claustrophobic chaos but as a result, there are a few strange features in this particular district that remain, remnants of tower apparatus suspended within the urban strata.In this case, a particularly large water tank.You drop down into a metal walkway running along the upper rim of a giant metal cylinder. There’s barely enough room to move, here in the crawlspace between the top of the water tank and the street that has paved over it but you only need to be in here long enough to locate the wheel at very top of the tank and to give it a spin. No rusted old ruin like the one above this, this one is in fine condition and you wouldn’t have it any other way.“It’s me,” you call out before you drop down.”No fear.”The tank, once meant to distribute water to a multitude of tower floors, had been subdivided into separate rooms long ago, the remains of the connecting pipes transformed into air ducts and vents. Rusty metal walls and partitions form makeshift floors that divide the tank into three floors, each theoretically a different living space for a different set of people. But now, of course, the entire tank belongs to you. “Yeah I know boss, I saw you and the others coming,” Eustace is the only one currently in the top floor, the floor you had all decided should be the least inhabited lest a surprise intruder enter the tank and spy a flame. Instead the top floor is a sentry station and a dummy house set up to look as normal as possible to quell the suspicions of anyone just passing by. And nobody would be allowed further down for any reason.Eustace is sitting on a stool by another of the omnipresent pipes, this one ripped from its old home and drilled into the ceiling. And though it looks like any other pipe, the nature of the bends and the reflective glass cunningly hid within it lets anyone who looks into it see into the crawlspace above and the open shaft. None of you had even made that, it had been a relic of previous crafty residents. “Keep up the good work. Beatrice and Abe should be down shortly.”Over at the far wall of the cylindrical room, you move the sleeping blanket carefully lain across the floor obscure the trapdoor that opens into the spiral staircase down into the lower two parts of the tank and descend. 2/4
>>2304567The second (and largest) floor is the barracks, itself subdivided up into several rooms that serve as adequate albeit cramped quarters for you, your companions and any redcloaks currently present. Of course your whole contingent of redcloaks doesn’t live here permanently, that would be untenable. Some of them have their own homes and lives and others still are on patrol in the streets around your base. That said, there is one of them that should always be here and she is absent. “Where is Alex?”“Down in the armoury,”“Thank you Enda.”The third floor of the tank is where you store the weapons you liberated and in the center of it all, a wide open space for your daily training sessions with your new followers. The walls are thickest here and old water seepage means that the section of the Maze directly beneath is flooded and uninhabited. That said, you won’t let them practice with the rifles down here. The sound of a gunshot is just too distinctive, it can’t be risked. You find Alex there clumsily running through a series of thrusts and swings with one of the halberds. You then immediately avert your eyes. She’s stripped down to a training outfit that would be appropriate for a male disciple, a pair of shorts and a thin undershirt, but is absolutely heinous for a woman. Had she been dressed like this when you had first met her, you would have been hard-pressed to have mistaken her for a man as you did. “It’s time,” you say, as much to get her attention as anything else. “Get dressed, it’s time to discuss our next mission.”“Huh? Alright!”She tosses the halberd to the ground.“But there’s really no need to wait for that. What’s our next target?”“No,” you say, your eyes firmly fixed on the point where the wall behind her meets the ceiling. “Get dressed.”Several minutes later, the four of you are sitting at the table off to the side from the training ground. The weapons leaning up against the walls gleam in the light as you move the lantern over from where it had been sitting on the floor to the table. “I still dunno if we can trust that snake,” Alex says, having just been filled in on the gist of what had happened. “It thinks it’s smarter than us.”“I know, right?,” Beatrice rasps. ‘What was your name again? Alexandra? Whatever. Us two are of the exact same mind here.”While you and Abe have mingled with the redcloaks easily, Beatrice still refuses to really get to know them. You think you can guess why. But right now she’s gesturing at Alex as if the two of them were sisters, though the little bit over a foot of extra height on Alex’s part would make that hard to believe. “Snake bitch is up to no good and I really don’t like what she said about her name.”Abe frowns.“We’ve got to use whatever we can get.”3/4
>>2304570“Agreed. Now as for our next target, I think it should be the Black Iron Docks that the monster told us about. It seems less important and less dangerous than the rest and what we find there might have a lot of use.”“I’ve got bad news for you then,” Alex says. “None of the gang here know nothing about the Docks. They don’t mess with people, they keep to themselves. No connections. Do you know which shipyard is the right one?”“No,” you admit. “But it’s still an excellent target and we need to move quickly.”“Oh by the way you lot, while you were gone I heard a real interesting story,” Alex says. “It’s the Iron Duke’s funeral today and good riddance.”Beatrice’s bloodshot eyes widen.“Are they all going to be there?”“How should I know. But they’re friends aren’t they?”“I doubt any of them have anything resembling a true friend,” you say. “But do you know what this means?”Abe shakes his head.“We can’t attack the funeral. There’s no way we could do it.”“No, it means that this ‘Albert’ should be away from home! Alex, spread the word! We’re not moving shortly, we’re moving now!”Chapter Twelve: Second Sin>Reconnaissance should be your first priority. Split into scouting teams and retreat at the first sign of danger.>No time for that! If you want to make use of this funeral, you'll need to start trespassing through the shipyards immediately. >Just head to the shipyard that contains the central offices. Surely it's there!>It's time to cause some chaos. By seeing where the security clusters in response to a threat, you should be able to see which shipyard is your target.>Other (Specify)
>>2304574>>Reconnaissance should be your first priority. Split into scouting teams and retreat at the first sign of danger.
>>2304574>>Reconnaissance should be your first priority. Split into scouting teams and retreat at the first sign of danger.It's a giant dreadnaught we're looking for, it shouldn't be that hard to figure out which shipyard has the most security or is the largest, etc.
>>2304574>Reconnaissance should be your first priority. Split into scouting teams and retreat at the first sign of danger.
>>2304555Her name is unpronounceable, like the imps' or the trolls' or the gods', yes. That's not unique to gods. She has a connection to luck or fate or just to Snake Eyes, we don't actually know how far her influence stretches.Her speech overrides others', and her forms are mutually exclusive. I wouldn't proclaim her a god, no, especially since Maria is holier than her.
I need to doze off earlier than I figured so this vote will remain open until I wake up tomorrow. Peace.
>>2303439>He runs the Black Iron Docks out by the shore. Pompous, sweats a lot, kind of a discount Rene really. Also does some quaint little newsletter thing that I don’t care to read.Can we steal Albert's printing press?
>>2304625oooh that's actually an interesting idea. We could print up a load of flyers trying to bring people to our cause. I doubt we can steal the actual press though, unless it's a second age relic it's going to be way too big to transport, much less transport covertly.
>>2304574>Reconnaissance should be your first priority. Split into scouting teams and retreat at the first sign of danger.>>2304625While tempting, i think we should prioritize the dreadnaught. It would make the Central Offices an interesting target before or after the Sable Imps, to keep them all guessing and run some serious distractions, but if we're going for the firepower we should GET the firepower.
Pure speculation, but could the dreadnought be a sorta Noah's Ark? The world doesn't have that much juice left, so he could just fuck off into the mudsea with a piece of God for protection and sustainability.
>>2304574>Reconnaissance should be your first priority. Split into scouting teams and retreat at the first sign of danger.We should try and collect rumors. If the dreadnought is being built since the Sun was shattered, it should be pretty well known already. Another thing to look for is the shipyard Albert visits most often.Considering Albert brags about his dreadnought constantly, I think he wouldn't put too much efforts into secrecy. He strikes me as a huge ship nerd with no head for politics, based on the little we know.
>>2304644Could be. In the end, nobody really knows what is further out at sea, and nobody gives a fuck about Albert anyway.Put it another way, Noah's Ark could be The Bastion.
>>2304631Well, we do have a group of people, and like two heavy hitters. Once the ship is found, we could maybe have our guys drag the press onto the ship.That's if we want to keep the ship. Thing is, it's big and not subtle at all! Keeping a goddamn dreadnought and sneaking into the city to grab shards is not really easy to do.And maybe the Chemist is the previous Lamplighter?
oh fuck fuck fuckWE SHOULD HAVE MADE A RUN FOR DINU'S SKULLMaria's at the funeral!
Ouro, is it too late to change our course (>>2305035)?
>>2305035I don't think we're powerful enough yet even with her gone. We almost died to a single golem, and that was the work of an amateur.
Vote called. Thread resumes in an hour or so.
>Reconnaissance should be your first priority. Split into scouting teams and retreat at the first sign of danger.“But didn’t the Bridesmaid say that he has at least a dozen different shipyards?,” Abe asks. “How are we supposed to know which is the right one to hit?”Beatrice runs her hand through her hair.“Yeah if we target the wrong one we’ll just be fucked, won’t we?”“Which is why we’ll be splitting into groups to scout out as many of the shipyards as possible. Purely scouting, no fighting and without actually breaching their perimeters. The monster said that he likes to brag about this ‘dreadnought’ so it shouldn’t be too hard to figure out which one has it. It must require a lot of work.”‘Right,” Alex says, already standing back up. “How are we splitting into teams?”“Groups of two. I leave it to your judgement on how best to divide the redcloaks.”“And the rest of you?”>”I’ll be going with Beatrice.”>”I’ll be going with Abraham.”>”I’ll be going with you.”>Other (Specify)
>>2305440>”I’ll be going with you.”
>>2305440>”I’ll be going with Abraham.”
>>2305440>>”I’ll be going with you.”
>>2305440>>”I’ll be going with Abraham.”>"ur going with B"
>>2305035No uh. The only one we need to kill is Maria herself. There's nothing to gain from taking on an army of golems that she'll be able to rebuild after we inevitably retreat.
>>2305440>>”I’ll be going with Abraham.”
>”I’ll be going with Abraham.”“I’ll go with Abraham. Alex, you and Beatrice can be together. Organise the rest of the redcloaks as you wish.”If you’re going to be splitting up, this just makes more sense. Beatrice and you can hit the heaviest, it would be a waste for the two of you to be together. “Remember, no heroics this time around. This is scouting only.”“But aren’t we kind of squandering the funeral opportunity?”Beatrice drums her fingers on the table.“We didn’t scout the Consortium.”“We didn’t need to. And the Consortium was a disaster. We can’t do that five more times. Just stay low and don’t get into fights. Run if you have to.”Though this advice is intended as much for yourself and your companions, you have the people in the room above yours more upon your mind. The redcloaks are young, younger than Abe even. You don’t want them to die on your behalf.“Any questions?”“Yes actually,” Beatrice continues. “Say one of us finds the damn boat. How are we supposed to tell the others?”“We won’t. Just come back at the right time and tell the rest of us when we rendezvous.”“And what if none of us find anything?”“Then we’ll switch to a new plan. Let’s go!”*****Almost an hour later, you and Abe are finally approaching the shipyard. You’d underestimated just how long it would take for you to cross the city and reach the docks but you still have almost half your time remaining. >You two are investigating the biggest shipyard.>You two are investigating the shipyard that keeps the company’s central offices.>You two are investigating the shipyard furthest out towards the east.
>>2305631>You two are investigating the shipyard furthest out towards the east.
This heat is making me feel extremely sluggish.
>>2305631>>You two are investigating the shipyard furthest out towards the east.
>>2305631>You two are investigating the shipyard that keeps the company’s central offices.
>>2305631>>You two are investigating the shipyard furthest out towards the east.>>2305657Ouro is reverse snek
>>2305631>You two are investigating the shipyard furthest out towards the east.This is the one furthest from the city, right? That's where I'd keep my giant battleship.
>>2305631>>You two are investigating the shipyard furthest out towards the east.>and closest to the sea
InterludeThe entry hall for the crypt housing the funeral was already crowded but they parted for the chiselled golem and its passenger. The Inspector hurried along in her wake, following both to take advantage of the space people gave her and because he knew from personal experience how disastrous it can be to leave her presence before she dismisses you. “The continued crimes of your mistress aside, there is some small comfort in seeing a familiar face here,” she told him.The Inspector simply nodded to his former mentor. She might see his choice of employment as a betrayal but she was also a misanthrope in a very literal sense of the world. She wouldn’t know any of the people here or even the first thing in dealing with them.The golem came to a stop by a door, pushing it open to reveal a small unoccupied room with a table and chairs inside. At the same time it also relaxed its grip and the witch slid to the floor. “This’ll do. I plan to stay in here until the ceremony starts.”The Inspector followed her inside, knowing that her not telling him to get out of her sight was as open an invitation as you’d ever get. The doorway was seven foot tall, forcing her to crouch to get inside. By the time he had followed her and the golem had stepped in behind him to completely block off the door, she was sitting on a chair that was much too wide and short for her. He can’t see her face, wrapped in the umbra as she perpetually is but knows that she is glaring balefully.“Everytime I am forced to come up and see what ugly and awkward things you cockroaches have built, my heart dies a little more.”“You wished to see me?”“Perhaps. What do you think of the funeral?”“It is...appropriate.”“Is it? Would you believe that he didn’t leave a will or directions or anything? He really planned on living forever. We had to come up with this ceremony from scratch. Couldn’t use anything to do with any kind of god, he’d hate that. Still, I’d like to think he’d find some value in being preserved forever.”A derisive chuckle.“His corpse is immortal even if he is not.”The Inspector felt compelled to say something.“I didn’t know him well but he did not strike me as a religious man.”“That’s one way to put it. I once asked him why he simply did not become a witch and he told me, to my face, that ‘he was not going to be a slave to dead gods like I was’. To my face! While I was working on his body, no less!”Her umbral cloak, a persistent and unusual Shade, relaxes enough for the Inspector to see just a flash of gold. Not that he didn’t already know what she looked like of course, he had been her student for several months. The general outline of her had become visible, lissome, curved and frail.“I was actually impressed. Talking to you gray lot is generally like talking to children but he was so sure of himself. I...I couldn’t help but be sure of him too. It was infectious.”1/2
>>2305757This was uncharted territory for the Inspector but it was plain that she wanted him to say something of some sort. She wanted someone to talk to.“I’m sorry for your loss.”“Don’t be,” she snarled, her tone going from an almost unheard wistfulness to a much more familiar bile. “Did you know what I did to him? He was my creation and unknown to him and every other one of you cretins who couldn’t comprehend a blueprint to save your lives, I deliberately retained a link. He was recording for me the entire time and he never knew it. Just a slave in the end after all. So I know what his final words were. Do you want to know?”The Inspector realised now that she didn’t want someone to talk with. She wanted someone familiar to talk at. In which case his only option was to play along.“What?”“He begged for his life. He grovelled. He was going to sell all of us out just to live five minutes more. Lucky for us his murderer was some sort of idiot, even for you people. I should loathe him. But still…”Her cloak of shadow tore at the seams with a sudden violent movement as she slams a hand upon the table. The hand was thin and over-exaggeratedly feminine by any Third Man standard, long fingers shaded a deep gold shot through with veins of silver. It rested there for but a moment before balling into a fist. “But still!”
>>2305757>The doorway was seven foot tall, forcing her to crouch to get inside>forcing her to crouch to get insidesecond men confirmed giants
>>2305804Perhaps 'hunch down' would have been a better use of words.
>>2305813Still fucking tall!
>>2305763Close. Fucking. Call.The info on the others is not worth the Golemist personally hunting us down right after our first power up.
Sorry guys, I actually fell asleep for a bit halfway through this.>You two are investigating the shipyard furthest out towards the east.Part of the reason why it had taken you so long to arrive was that you had eschewed the closer shipyards and had instead headed towards the easternmost point of the bay. This was the furthest way from the city and just as importantly, the closest towards the horizon. The shipyards are not like the Thorn or the Senate Hall, landmarks that crop up through the towers and are visible from many miles away. Instead Dis’ thicket of towers serves to hide the sea almost completely from sight. You can barely even tell that you are approaching it until you are practically on top of it, when you reach the point where the towers finally thin and abruptly give way to the shore. The shore. You’ve never been. The Sea of Mud in its entirety is sacred, the flat unchanging ocean that had existed before time or the world, from whose depths the Old Powers dredged themselves up from and the medium through which the Wayward Flame had made his vengeance known. An endless expanse of perpetually boiling mud and the birthplace of every kind of man. And the shore of Dis is where it all began. Where the first steps of the First Men were taken and where fateful battle between Man and Gods had first been joined. Dis, as it does to all things, encroaches and bleeds into the shore. The actual shoreline is lost amidst a muddle of buildings and ruins, the flowing mud squeezed between abandoned blocks that had fallen into the sea centuries ago. But out further, beyond all the ruined urban muddle, a flat expanse of gray and brown spanning out into infinity. You have never seen such a horizon before.“I never thought I’d get to see it,” Abe whispers. The shipyard squats amidst the muddle and stretches out further, quays reaching out through it and out into the Sea proper like long black fingers. They are dotted with sheds and shiphouses, floating buildings that mask the vessels within, though there are still uncovered ships dotted here and there. Squat and bulky ugly things built to withstand heat.“What are they used for?,” Abe asks. “What does anyone here need boats for? Is there somewhere down the coast they trade with?”“Maybe,” you say, peering at the shipyards below from atop the bridge wall. “I asked Alex and she said that many people uses the ships as residence.”“I don’t see any particularly large ship.”Neither can you. But your eyes spot something else unusual.“Maybe so. But look at that shed down by the shore.”“Wait, that’s part of the docks? I thought it was a sunken tower or something. That’s...that’s a big warehouse. What are they keeping in there?”“The dreadnaught, most likely.”“Wouldn’t it be more heavily guarded if that was the case? And the warehouse itself looks kind of dilapidated.”1/2
>>2305971You pause. It’s true that such an apparently boasted-of project would probably not be lurking within a shed as run down as the one below you. But why else would it be so large? It dwarfs every other building in the shipyards or along the quays by an order of magnitude. “Do you want to go down and have a look?,” Abe asks. “Nothing too serious, I know it’s just scouting but whatever’s big enough to fit in here is bound to be important.”Abraham is, as ever, eager to prove himself. His own personal safety means little to him.>Agree. There’s still the possibility that this may be the dreadnaught after all.>It’s not worth it. Just scope out what you can and then head back to the rendezvous point.>One of you can go in alone while the other keeps watch.>Other (Specify)
>>2305804IIRC First Men were/are even bigger.
>>2305976>>Agree. There’s still the possibility that this may be the dreadnaught after all.No point splitting up, it's not like we can signal to each other or anything.>>2305987I think the second are taller but thinner, while the first are "blockier". Both are bigger than us third men though.
>>2305976>>Agree. There’s still the possibility that this may be the dreadnaught after all.
>>2306000I think she might be a first woman.
>>2306000I thought the First were just massive and blocky overall, their architecture matching their builds.>>2306029Not if her skin is gold, First Men weren't that color. >>2305976>Agree. There’s still the possibility that this may be the dreadnaught after all.
>>2306029First men were mud colored and basically big blocks of flesh. She's far too delicate and thin for that.First men = Big, BLocky, tough but utter SHIT at building and innovationsSecond men= Tall, thin, frail but smart as fuck and golden coloredThird men= tough, well-muscled, quick healers, and gray.It's important to note that with each new man the likelihood and powers of the flame dimmed. Fourth men even having Wick might not be able to do flame rites at all.
>>2306029>>2306044Here's Ouro's long post explaining the various races of men and the ageshttp://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/757516/#p783706>>2306058This is correct as far as I can tell. I'd theorize that the fourth age will be the end of the old powers, both of earth and flame, and the fourth men will be pretty normal humans.
>>2306058>utter SHITThey had the largest structures, they weren't bad at building, they just made less complex structures than the Second Men.
>>2306072>>2306058>>2306044Your right, first men werent gold. Sorry for my confusion.
>>2306083They were good at building in the same way the Egyptians were good at building
>>2305976>Agree. There’s still the possibility that this may be the dreadnaught after all.
>>2306072Rereading this, I have kind of a weird question. How did First Men even breed? From the sound of their culture it doesn't seem like they had any reason to.
>>2306095They made the Jews do it?
>>2306072Reviewing this, it sounds probable that Maria was involved in the fall of the second age. A formidable foe indeed.
>>2306113They did if only to make more soldiers to fight the Earth gods.
>>2306126Is it just two giant munters bumping uglies though, or is there an element of pyromancy in it? Considering First Men were literal Vessels of the Wayward Flame.
>>2306138Honestly do not know and probably do not want too.
>>2306138I would assume it's just them bumping uglies since it was briefly mentioned that there was cross-generational breeding that still led to the successive generations replacing the previous age. If the first and second could reproduce then there's probably not anything inherently special about it. And it's kind of a moot point since they've all seemed to have died out/lack the ability to reproduce more first or second age men anymore.
Vote called, writing.>>2306058>>2306083>>2306095The First Men had a very monumental building style, tending towards large, impressive but ultimately simple structures. They also tended to use these fortified structures to live communally since the world outside those structures was incredibly unsafe at the time. Dis, as a city with a great deal of investment and nostalgia for its roots, imitates this style heavily, hence the cultural focus on massive communal towers.
>>2306165I thought that too, but maybe they can do both? Or maybe they could impart the flame of life onto others?>>2306173What about their method of getting busy?
>>2306203Interesting. Where's your artfag?
>>2306180Put ponos in vagoo
Actually belay that update. I'm going into a flakenap for a few hours. Today has been dreadful for updates.
>>2306255Your fleksnek art collection has become impressive and I'm not sure that's a good thing
What if it's a submarine? An actual nuclear reactor submarine to chart the unknown abyss?
>>2306441It's just more and more mud until you reach insane pressure from all the mud above you, and the heat that lies in the deepest depth. Ouro said something about Second Age submarines during a discussion about technology.
>>2306456.....Is he off to steal the Wayward Flame itself?
>>2306255Yo Ouro, would you be cool with some of your characters making a cameo in a game?If yes, would you prefer Hiss and Cennen or Orion and Bea
>>2306855I don't mind. I'd like to know what it is though but you don't exactly need my permission.Alright guys so I have some bad news. Remember how my old laptop charger crapped out and I had to spend a week waiting for a new one to be mailed to me since no place local sold the right one? The tip of this new charger snapped in half and left part of itself inside my computer as I was rousing myself just now. It's happening again.
>>2306876Shit. Can you get it out?
>>2306876Holy shit. What-how even-just-....Pliers. Tweezers. If all else fails, you really will have to open it up just to eject that half-plug.
Here's hoping that doing this doesn't zap me
It's the curse! Do you have a warranty, Ouro? You just got it, that should help.Don't worry about the plug, there's a good way to get it out. Just get a large magnet and apply it directly to your hard drive.
Regardless of how this turns out, this is probably the end of the thread. Could someone archive it for me? I'm about to turn my laptop off to conserve power.I should have gotten more done.
>>2306889rubber handle, dry hands, or just go to a comp shop and have them do it.>>2306893or warranty, but cheapo chargo so I suspect not.But pls no magnet. There's questing stuff in there.
>>2306895How does this sound? 'We get the details of the Sinners, and are told of the manner of the Sun's passing.'
>>2305500You missed the point. I was saying that we should have dropped by her place, stolen her shard, and skedaddled before the golem-controller got back. I figure golems are a lot more dangerous with their controller present than they are without.
>>2306903This was meant to be serious, so I unfortunately couldn't use the phrase 'brought to light'.
>>2306920We already fought one of her golems, and ended up just running away. I don't think we can thoroughly search her place while being mobbed by multiple golems.Killing the witch who controls them deactivates all the golems, right?
Sunuvabitch, we're all idiots. We could have used the Starbreaker satellite map to help look for the dreadnought.>>2306963I don't know if killing the witch kills the golems, they're meant to be autonomous.
>>2306984Would that have helped? I suppose google maps would point out the most obviously large warehouse, narrowing down the list by a lot.
>>2306986>Would that have helped? I suppose google maps would point out the most obviously large warehouse, narrowing down the list by a lot.Or a honking great big ship in the harbor.
>>2306984We're so bad at remembering we have that. Even Ouro forgot at one point.
>>2306989Is it that detailed? I thought it was kind of rudimentary. Hell if you really think about it we could've brought down the one star that's still above Dis down onto that funeral and made a big splash.
>>2307008I think that would be too risky. If Beatrice jacked up and quickfired, we could take out 2-3 of the more normal Sinners in the chaos, but then we'd be running right the fuck out.
>>2307008We should save the star for the Bride. She is the most dangerous for us.
>>2306984AHAH, thread 4.5>Golems are earthen creatures, beings of the soil and rock itself and powered by a hateful curse within. They lack any vital function and so no injury can lay them low. Their soil and clay drowns all but the strongest of flame and so they cannot be burned. And all this is rock and dirt around you is but new flesh for the golem to add to its own. And while this one is smaller than any golem you’ve seen before, they remain one of the strongest and most terrifying creatures a witch can create.>The only ways to destroy one for good is to take it apart atop the concrete plains or in some other place where there is no earth to reconstitute itself or to destroy the witch who animated it.
>>2307034I'm not sure that the star would necessarily be a one hit KO for any of the seven. The Iron Duke was apparently kind of a lightweight and was still pretty difficult for us. But as a propaganda tool or just to cause chaos it would've been interesting to see how it worked out.
>>2307095It will be glorious once we're more powerful and our cause is more well known.>become a prophet of the sun>demand the remaining sinners hand over their shards or face the wrath of the Flame>sinners kek>we orbital bombard all of them>no one doubts us any more
>>2307104There's only one star above Dis still. It'll be kind of a lame orbital bombardment. We should definitely Allah Akbar their Senate or something.
>>2307046I wonder if a thermal lance could actually damage one enough to mitigate its regeneration. >>2307125Doesn't the place they were holding Bea have a bunch of gunpowder stored in it? Something hitting that from orbit could be very satisfying.
>>2307008>Nuke the funeralYou're a genius, anon.
>>2307015but then we'd be running right the fuck out.We don't need to be present.>>2307008>Is it that detailed?Yes. It's got zoom and everything. >>2307034>Snake is the most dangerousNah, golemist stomps. >>2307046>All but the strongest of flameWe've got that. It's unhealthy to use, butwe've got it.>>2307095>The Iron Duke was apparently kind of a lightweightAre you kidding me? He was a physical powerhouse and invulnerable to flame.>>2307125>It'll be kind of a lame orbital bombardment.Most of them are squishy humans.
Ugh, on the other hand, I don't want to do a dungeon bypass. So far I've liked all the Sinners, and think they would be great boss fights. It would be a shame to kill Albert and Spinnae without meeting them.Rene and Maria would probably survive since she's powerful and he's probably an imp.
>>2307385>>2307372Nuking the funeral would be more of a stunt desu and maybe would have the added bonus of killing one or two of the sinners (big maybe). But it would almost certainly cause a ton of chaos and be a very poignant statement that none of the seven are untouchable. Plus when are we really going to get to use this thing? Most of the seven we're going to have to battle in one way or anything because they possess a shard. The snek we can't even be sure that we'd harm with the star. But it's been mentioned that there's already growing unrest in Dis. Now you have this somewhat public ceremony where the city's influential leaders are all gathered and suddenly a fucking star falls out of the sky and smashes into it. At the very least it would help with unrest and be pretty goddamn funny.
>>2307430Plus, we keep forgetting about it anyway.
>>2307442Forgetting about what?
>>2307442Do we even have time to do it at this point? We're already out exploring and who knows how long they'll all be gathered in the same place?
>>2307480Pls go hypno snek.
God damn I want to stardrop the funeral so bad.
>>2307480I don't remember... >>2307483>Do we even have time to do it at this point? We're already out exploring and who knows how long they'll all be gathered in the same place?Don't know. It'll take half an hour to land, we're about halfway through the funeral.If Ouro agrees, though, we can switch to Bea, who retroactively could be using the Starbreaker as a map, and make her decide to bomb the place half an hour ago.
>>2305976>Orion suddenly gets idea to nuke the funeral with holy star fire and goes back to the base to deliver justice from the skies. Voting for.
>>2307498That seems like something Bea would absolutely do.
>>2307500This actually makes much more sense and sounds logical.
>>2307498>>2307499>>2307500I think we won't be able to properly capitalize on a bombing. The strike might not kill the Sinners outright, and there's enough security there that we won't be able to finish them off.
>>2307508The point isn't the kill all of the sinners. It's more of a propaganda thing than anything else and we wouldn't launch a full scale attack on them once it drops. I'd assume that we get out of there as soon as the thing is falling and go attack the docks. At the very least it causes a massive distraction and maybe contributed more to the unrest in the city.
>>2307516It's a fucking orbital strike. Are you sure you want to waste it on a PR stunt?
You guys are getting way ahead of yourselves. In character, we don't know that the sinners are attending the funeral. From what we know, we'd probably think they weren't! We don't even know where the funeral is being held.Also Orion would be conflicted dropping the star in the first place. Not a problem if you're trying to retcon Bea to do it though.
>>2307521We know there's a funeral and the sinners are there, it's why we're going for the shipyards i nthe first place.
>>2307521We do know about the funeral, the snek told us about it. She's also the only one of the Sinners not attending. Besides, you know, the dead ones.
>>2307524>>2307526Ok you're totally right on that. We do assume they're there, that's softened my resistance quite a bit. We still don't know where it is though.I worry Ouro regrets the star breaker though and we're going to break the narrative by doing this
>>2307508>I think we won't be able to properly capitalize on a bombing. The strike might not kill the Sinners outright, and there's enough security there that we won't be able to finish them off.We don't need to. We'd probably get two of them, maybe three or if we're insanely lucky, all four. We don't need to be there, we don't need to finish them off. >>2307520>It's a fucking orbital strike. Are you sure you want to waste it on a PR stunt?It's a chance to kill 2-4 of the 5/7 remaining sinners, of course it's worth it. If we got to the satellite again, it's even reusable. Fill it up with Lamplight, next shard will refill it to 100/100 again.>>2307521>You guys are getting way ahead of yourselves. In character, we don't know that the sinners are attending the funeral.Yeah we do.>“Oh by the way you lot, while you were gone I heard a real interesting story,” Alex says. “It’s the Iron Duke’s funeral today and good riddance.”>We don't even know where the funeral is being held.Alex might, and if we really don't know where it is, we won't drop a star on it. Oh well.>Also Orion would be conflicted dropping the star in the first place. Not a problem if you're trying to retcon Bea to do it though.He might be, yeah. Even Bea might be. But even so, I think they each might do it. 4/7 Sinners is too juicy a target to give up on.>>2307533>metaI kind of agree, and while I'm excited by the idea, I don't want to skip boss fights. But if Ouro had a problem with it, he could just say that the Dreadnought was not easily seen from orbit, that we left it back in our bunker for safety, and that it would take too long to go home and come back.
>>2307533Actually maybe this isn't such a good idea. If we take out or cripple the ship guy, the fellowship guy, and the hospital guy that might leave the golemist or snake with more fragments.
>>2307549Actually maybe this isn't such a good idea. If we take out or cripple the ship guy, the fellowship guy, and the hospital guy that might leave the golemist or snake with more fragments.What would either of do with them? Snake can't touch them and Golemist is a witch.
>>2307549I know it seems silly, but I just can't foresee the starbreaker doing enough damage to take out more than maybe one of the sinners. But I don't know when we'd get to use it to more effect.
>>2307546>It's a chance to kill 2-4 of the 5/7It's a chance to maybe kill the little fish, and make the really tough ones ten times as careful.It'll also give up our trump card no one knows about, wasting it on the small fry.
>>2307564>small fryI mean, they're still the Sinners who killed the Sun. Speaking of which, aren't there two shards unaccounted for?
>>2307582Relatively small fry.
>>2307582Yeah, there are 10 total, the sinners had seven, we had one, and the two other lamplighters each had one.
>>2307588Small compared to the Snake and Golemist, but there aren't many beings that could be considered not smaller than them.
>>2307564It's not a waste, each of these people could be quite powerful in their own bases. They're all very rich, at least, and have their own personal armies. Being ten times as careful isn't so bad, especially if they're defending against an attack we don't intend to repeat.
>>2307601That's why we need to save our trump card for one of them.>>2307603If the star doesn't kill them outright, we will have wasted it.
>>2307603>>2307606Dropping it on the dreadnought could be a better use for it, if the ship's in dry-dock it would case massive damage to it, and it might be able to recharge on its own if it hits the reactor directly. Assuming it's powered by the Shard.
>>2307606The star won't kill the snake or the golemist outright. It would be silly to hype up their power and then just let us smash them with a drone strike.
>>2307612We could distract them to recharge it and repeatedly drop it on them.
>>2307611I think another benefit of striking the funeral is that it allows us to search for Albert's shard while the entire city is trying to clean up the funeral drone strike.
>>2307611I don't think the star will survive the impact anon. The one we found hadn't been dropped from orbit, it ran out of fuel and fell, right? I think that was thread three or four if anyone wants to check.
>>2307612Yes, but it'll weaken them greatly, and we'll be in a position to capitalize on this.
>>2307617Ouro previously mentioned that there's only a single star above Dis, only one that's in range of the city. All of the others have been pulled down or something. We only have one opportunity to use it in Dis. I just don't see it being more effective than using it at the funeral. We keep forgetting about it anyway.
>>2307619It's 4.5, I think. That still means it fell from orbit, and it still left a massive crater, penetrating the concrete completely.
>>2307621We don't know where it's being held anyway.Also, if we kill all the other Sinners, the Bride will hunt us down immediately, before we have the time to get to the shards.
>>2307625I think someone in the Redcloaks would know. The interludes didn't make it appear that the thing was very low-profile.
>>2307630The Bride is still a problem. She'd knew she'll be next, so she'd fall on us like a sack of bricks.
>>2307619>The one we found hadn't been dropped from orbit, it ran out of fuel and fell, right?Yeah, but isn't that pretty much the same thing?>>2307625I don't get why you all are so worried about the Madam and the Snake. They're meant to be boss fights, and Orion doesn't power up very much, and the order in which we kill them is entirely up to us. We're meant to be able to take them on mano a mano, we're not supposed to be terrified of fighting them.
>>2307633>we're not supposed to be terrified of fighting them.Are you sure?Are.You.Sure?Also even if so, we're probably meant to take them on while having more shards.
This is Ouro, posting from a tablet. You may use the Starbreaker whenever you wish. I haven't been presenting it as a prompt because you only get 1 and i didn't want it to feel as if I was pressuring you to use it at any given point. Its also not in Orions nature to drop a star from the sky unless he absolutely has to.
>>2307642How do we know it's really you? Post tits.
>>2307642Does Alex know where the funeral is?>Drop satellite.Lets kill a hundred innocent people in order to kill a doctor who runs free clinics and a shipbuilder, and get the chance to kill an imp and a witch.
>>2307642Yeah, how do we know you're really Ouro?>>2307678There are no innocents in Dis :^)
>>2307678>>2307680No one is innocent in Dis and they're all attending the funeral for one of the sinners.
>>2307687No one is innocent in Dis and they're all attending the funeral for one of the sinners.All humans in Dis relied on his fire to stay alive, of course they would be thankful. They don't know that he killed the Sun in the first place. They are innocents.
>>2307698>They are innocents.Dis has always defied the world order and strove against the interest of Man. There are no innocents in Dis.
>>2307590I forgot that we heard that one of our fellow lamplighters already came here and failed. That might be a reason the tangle could have two shards
>>2307708If no one was innocent it would be easier to set the city on fire and take advantage of the fact we cant be burned to search faster and easier.
>>2307735If Dis could burn this wouldn't be a bad plan. Actually, is the mud in the Sea of Mud flammable?
Adding my vote to nuke the funeralIt's an amazing idea and frankly I think it'll have so many exciting and interesting consequences that it's worth doing to see what happens. It may be crazy but Orion is angry enough, biting it down or no, to accept how much it could expedite his quest.
>>2307789>it'll have so many exciting and interesting consequences that it's worth doing to see what happensNotions like that in quests have never led to anything good as long as I remember. Never.
>>2307794But you can't deny that it would be interesting.
>>2307809Not if we have to try and unfuckup it.
>>2307819That can be just as interesting
>>2307824As if we have not enough interesting things already.
>>2307819>>2307824Even more interesting. Remember how fun the Iron Duke fight was? We were completely fucked, and it was great.That's how games are, the more fucked you are, the fun you have.
>>2307878Until you die.Don't think Ouro won't let us die.
We need to take a headcount on who is for and against nuking the funeral at the moment to decide if this is even something we want to try to go forward with.
>>2307899We'll probably have a prompt for it, after this discussion.
>>2307926Maybe Ouro was intending to save it for a heroic self-sacrifice moment against the Snake or Golemist by one of our companions.
>>2307899Well I am for it, but I am going to sleep.Hopefully my ID hasn't changed, and that Ouro will count this post as a vote.>>2307794Oh I am fully aware, this is an informed decision. And don't worry, I see the merits in not doing it too. If the vote ends in a no we will just find a better opportunityJust ... Make sure that only Abe and Bea know what happened, the fallout will be enormous if our allies and the populace find out. It's tough, being a terrorist, when you need to gain acceptance from those you terrorise
>>2308045>Just ... Make sure that only Abe and Bea know what happened, the fallout will be enormous if our allies and the populace find out. It's tough, being a terrorist, when you need to gain acceptance from those you terroriseAcceptance? Haha, no, we're a supervillain now. We are the humans' only source for heat after we destroyed their fire, we called down a satellite upon their leaders, we're taking down their biggest doctor. We're supervillains now, and we should play into supervillain tropes. Gimme a million dollars.
>>2308074We should start training the red cloaks to light the lamps, or at least those with the aptitude.
Regarding people calling for a vote, this thread is over. I'm not getting this shit fixed for about a week probably and im not updating with a tablet
>>2308168Tablets aren't that bad, fake Ouro. Take one for the team.
>>2308275Have you ever used a tablet? Have you seen how long a typical post is?
>>2308275That's an even worse ball-ache than phoneposting.
>>2307899I'm against it. As I said above, we'd only surely kill the more normal ones if Beatrice is there to doubletap. The rest of them would take damage at worst, at the cost of our trump card and massively raised security everywhere.I just don't see it as worth it unless we commit everything to killing the Golemist here and now by summoning the Saint and throwing redcloaks away as distractions.
>>2307899Do we even know where it is?Also, I'd be keener on saving it to take out the Paper Bridesmaid
>>2307899I say do it.
>>2307516> The point isn't the kill all of the sinners.Nigga there isn't anything worth wasting a Star on EXCEPT killing all of the sinners.Might as well say "Nuke them with the shards of God we have".That's some heretical shit right there, and I will have no part of it.
>>2309154I'm against nuking the sinners because it's less fun using a cheat code.
>>2308830This right here. We have two really dangerous enemies - the Golemist because she's hella strong, and the Bridesmaid because she knows about us. We also have two trump cards - the star and the Saint. We shouldn't waste one of our secret weapons on anything less than total and guaranteed destruction of one of these two targets.
>>2308830>Save the nuke for the BridesmaidIf you think I'm going to lose out on a luck-influencing giant snake boss fight, you've got another think coming. >>2309238This.
>>2309238Nah senpai we earned that shit. Do or die.
>>2309319>Risking the future of the world for a thrill
>>2309336To argue for the other side a moment, it's not completely a cheat, as bombing the funeral has the potential to make our lives much more complicated.
>>2309351>>Risking the future of the world for a thrillHell yeah. Besides, I can justify not using it on the snake in a bunch of different ways.>We need a spy sat more than a dead snek.>It would be sacrilegious! >The Golemist is scarier, use it on her. >We need to keep a trump card.>The longer we stay in Dis, the more likely it is we'll be found. Wiping out a bunch of squishies will cause confusion and save us time in getting to shards. Albert, Thomas won't be getting in our way when we come for their shards. >Orion wants to kill her himself. >We don't need her dead, we already have her shard.
>>2309529Anon, half of your justification also justify not dropping it on the funeral.
>>2309603Yup. They're random justifications, some of them are even mutually exclusive. These are potential reasons for someone to 'put the world in danger' by not bombing the Madam.
>>2309749And all of them are better than "It'd be fun!"
>>2309762This is when we get into 'what's the point of a game' and 'what is fun', which is deeper than I feel like going right now. Anyway, if Bea did call down the sky upon the funeral, what would the best, most in-character rationale for that be?>This is the best use of the satellite, thinking rationally.>It seemed like a good idea at the time. >Praise the Sun!>She hates the Sinners and wants them all dead.>Sympathy rage for Orion, she'll do what he would have wanted.
>>2309251It won't destroy one of these targets.
>>2309787The main advantage of our teump cards isn't in their power, but in the fact they are unknown to our enemies. Even if they don't finish the job on their own, they'll give us a significant edge if we're in position to immediately follow up with a conventional attack.>>2309786I feel like you're trying to present the option to bomb the funeral as an already decided course of action.
>>2309810All of our targets are gathered at a single place. We don't know what would happen if we dropped a star on them, it could very well kill all of them. As the player, we can assume that's not going to happen. But for Orion or Bea that probably seems like a pretty fucking enticing option. And it's bound to cause a lot of chaos in both directions. And ideally it will either physically weaken our enemies, weaken their positions of power, and drive a little bit more chaos into the functioning of Dis. And maybe with the added bonus of killing one or two of the major players. Forgoing that option to maybe do a little damage to one of the two big baddies is just silly. We're going to get stronger as we go along, this is a Quro quest. I'm sure there will be lots of other twists and turns. But this is too prime of a target to just give up so we can throw a star and maybe do a little damage to the demi-god snake or the golemist.
>>2309928>physically weaken our enemies, weaken their positions of power,Those are extremely suspect. They have way better resources for recovering than we do, and attacking them on a goddamn funeral makes THEM look like the honorable ones. It won't decrease their direct means of force because those direct means aren't present to be destroyed by the satellite.
Once the green fire is properly gone should we set out to lighting lamps/training those with talent on how to do it or just wait until we've killed some more influential sinners? Certainly the sinners would get in the way of it, but I'm not too fond of what Dis would be like in pitch black, or its people. The time/effort expense to not get tracked through it (even via whoever we may train) makes me feel we need to be patient.Just asking for thoughts since people brought it up before.>>2309928It's actually for those twists and turns that I'd save the star. All our greatest enemies are named and obvious, large but not easy targets, I don't want to encounter a twist to a later situation and go "wish we saved that star for this," etc. That's just meta rpg instincts though, Orion would probably do it.
>>2309928Anon, you say dropping a star on the funeral will kill several major players, and then turn around and say dropping a star on a big baddy will do only a little damage. It's one or the other.Regarding your other arguments:> it will either physically weaken our enemiesThey will just bounce right back if we don't finish them off.>weaken their positions of powerHow? We'll destroy a funeral house, not any of the important structures.>drive a little bit more chaos into the functioning of DisThis is true, but the payoff is too small relative to the resources expended.
>>2309928There's another consideration: the Sinners don't trust each other. But if we attack all of them together, they will know we don't work for any of them, so they'll be free to pool their resources to get rid of us.
>>2309973We don't know this in character, but the inspector's boss isn't there.
>>2309962>and attacking them on a goddamn funeral makes THEM look like the honorable ones.We don't actually need honor. Like I said before, we can play this like supervillains. Terrorize the city into acquiescing to our demands, start a protection racket for lit Lamps. It won't sit well with Orion, but he's pragmatic enough to understand that it's the best way to keep most people in Dis alive and bring back the sun. >>2309810>I feel like you're trying to present the option to bomb the funeral as an already decided course of actionSorry if it seems that I'm trying to pressure people into thinking like me. Not my intention. >they'll give us a significant edge if we're in position to immediately follow up with a conventional attack.True, but they're all at the funeral now and we aren't. I don't think we'll get this sort of opportunity again.>>2309962>It won't decrease their direct means of force because those direct means aren't present to be destroyed by the satellite.Except maybe Maria's, if wrecking one of her best golems counts.>>2309967I think we're not going to get lucky when it comes to Flame Artists. Training them takes time, we have little time, and we haven't even found any to train yet. I think we're going to have to keep the city warm by ourselves. >>2309973Good point! I think they'll blame the Bridesmaid, though. And I think it'll only be Maria and Rene left, so that's a pretty good situation for us.
>>2310034An opportunity has no value if we can't use it fully, and we can't. It's like we have a sniper rifle with one round, and you want us to shoot without taking aim just because the target flashed across the scope for a second.
>>2310074It's not a sniper rifle, it's a pinpoint missile that causes a crater a hundred feet wide. It's a pretty good attack! 'An opportunity has no value if we can't use it fully' is clearly wrong. It has as much value as a sudden satellite screaming in from orbit on top of four of our targets.Consider it a good thing that we don't have to be next to them or their security in order to hit them with this.
>>2310161What if it's not enough to kill them? Then we're back where we were, only we don't have an orbital strike anymore and they have reasons to amp their efforts to kill us.
>>2310163>What if it doesn't work?Then yeah, we wasted our satellite. I think we have good odds on at least wasting two of them, bad odds on wasting all four. I think that's worth spending a trump card on, and our awesome satmap.We could reuse the satellite if we recharged it again, but it would require recovering it. Unlikely.I won't be upset if we don't turn out to use it, but I do think it's a good idea.
>>2310034>Except maybe Maria's, if wrecking one of her best golems counts.Before I even say that's semantics, because it's just ONE fucking golem and we're wasting the whole satellite, you don't even know if it's her best one. Actually, it doesn't make sense for her to bring her best golem at fighting, it could just as well be her "ceremonial" golem.>We don't actually need honorno, we don't. But when one side does something dishonorable, the other is only strengthened in their position of power.
>>2310949>no, we don't. But when one side does something dishonorable, the other is only strengthened in their position of power.>>2302547>Without the Duke, there can be no green flame and without its half-light and half-warmth, Dis must eventually go cold and dark. And through all this panic and the ensuing riots, news of you has begun to spread. They don’t call you a Lamplighter, they deny you even that courtesy. Instead you are a ‘mad pyromancer’, a ‘dangerous fanatic’, a ‘deranged terrorist and leader of terrorists’. Significant effort has been made to paint you and your supporters, who are thankfully unknown to the authorities, as the ones to blame for Dis’ current crisis. >And that is, in a certain facetious way, entirely true. But not in others! You’ve had your Redcloaks working with everyone they know to spread your own questions. Namely, who is it that quashed the true fire? Who placed Dis in this situation in the first place? Who made the green flame necessary? >It hasn’t been working quite as well as some of the redcloaks had hoped, you could see it in their faces. They speak of faith and truth but the voice of Dis is so much louder and it can roar. And questioning the city they live in is much harder for some than what the voices accusing you demand, which is only that they continue to hate those they already did.We're not going to be seen as the heroes here, that goal should be given up on. They have a larger platform, they can arrest our people, and we really did take out their life support and plan to take out their free clinics. We are the enemy, there's nothing we can do that will change that.The best we can do is print a run of propaganda pamphlets on Albert's press, naming Albert, Maria, Rene and Thomas as the killers of the Sun, describing what they did. That will hurt their cohesion, sow doubt, but we'll still be a popular target. We'll still be the people who took out the VFC.
>>2307926I'm actually not against considering it, but it's a really large decision to make.I would want to do several things first, before even considering it.> Determine that the targets actually will be attending the funeral> Be certain that the amount of damage from the star falling would be able to kill them> Be in a position to assault the funeral immediately after to confirm the kills regardless.> Be in a position to capitalize on the chaos and recover the Shards.The last one is the most important. While the Sinners are definitely high priority targets, our goal IS NOT to kill them, but to resurrect the Wheel God and bring back the Sun.Even if we DO kill the Sinners, we can't fight the entire City of Dis. So we would have to lay some groundwork to either have the people turn to our side in the aftermath, or be able to strike multiple locations with sufficient force to seize the Shards.Personally, I feel we don't have enough time to prepare to capitalize on even killing all the Sinners. Conversely, we get significantly stronger with each Shard we recover. If we could find a way to share the Light with our followers, that would go a long way to convincing people to join us. Not just for power, although that's always attractive, but also for the benefits of the Blessings that they've forgotten.Or if we could grow fresh food in tamed earth under the light of the shard, instead of whatever terrible (I assume) food the masses survive on. Share it out among the poor with stories about how it used to grow for the picking and wasn't exclusive to the rich.Maybe Bea could find some people with the aptitude to be a Flame Artist and teach them some stuff?I would personally prefer to save the Starkiller in order to strike down the Golem Witch after recovering at least two more shards, use that as the signal to incite a revolt big enough to cause people who are undecided to either stay out of it or join us out of faith that we can actually WIN/out of self-preservation in the belief that we will either win or completely level Dis, and summon the Wax Saint to lead them in attacking the remaining 2 (3? If we kill two first, then strike the Golem Witch, how many are left?) Sinners and either kill them or drive them off and recover their shards.
>>2311928Things to consider:> The other two LamplightersThey might not be willing to accept our sacrifice of the Star, and declare us a Heretic or a Sinner. They wouldn't even really be wrong. Would Orion be willing to surrender his mission to them and accept himself as unworthy of it?> The Wax Saint, same issue.She doesn't seem forgiving, either. > We only have one Star to dropI would suggest figuring out a way to make it seem like we have more than one, or that we're dropping more than one. If we can spread the word about the Star falling at the same time as maybe another or two really big explosions happen, since people will hear that the strike was actually a Star falling if we claim the other two explosions were also Stars it'll be believable. People would be much more willing to join up if they thought that we had that kind of power, as opposed to hunting us down out of vengeance.
>>2311933>>2311928A few more things:> We can prepare to drop the Star, but until we do we can still back out.Let's come up with a plan where we can abort if it looks like it won't actually work out. Once we DO drop the star, that's it.> We might not be the only one able to talk to the StarWe got the console of a Witch in the first place, and at least one of the Sinners is likely a Second Man and understands the technology, and may be able to cancel our instructions. It could be something as simple as engaging a safety protocol. Let's NOT come up with a plan that leaves us vulnerable if the Star DOESN'T crash.Finally, on a somewhat unrelated note touching back on the fact that our actual goal is to recover the Shards> Consider leaving an escape route for the Sinners to flee, if it means leaving the Shards behind.It's not necessary to make them fight to the death, really. I don't see most of them wanting to anyways. Some of them have already lived for ages under the Sun, and they pulled it down once. If they can escape and live then they can maybe try again later. It might be an idea to even set up something ourselves for them to use as an escape, someone to pretend to sell us out (or if we find a spy, leave them alone and feed them specific information). That way we'll hopefully know where they went for finding them later.
>>2311928This is what I've been saying the whole time! Thanks you, anon.
>>2311933> The Wax Saint, same issue.You're wrong here, though. She literally declared that whatever Orion does is automatically right. We even trolled her a bit over it.
>>2311941>We got the console of a Witch in the first place, and at least one of the Sinners is likely a Second Man and understands the technology, and may be able to cancel our instructions.I do kind of doubt that. No idea where Zeno got the SB, but I doubt there's another one just floating around.
>>2311957A few things I think are noteworthy on this.One is that Zeno, in his last days, was being hunted. If I recall correctly, either directly or indirectly by the Golemnist; no idea how high a priority he was.Another is that there is only one star above Dis. Whether this was because of others being used or if it was because they were purposefully moved away using an unknown function, we have no clue. If I were to idly theorize, I'd say that Zeno was allowed to play around as much as he was because the possession he had wasn't that great of a threat to Dis itself. However, Dis knew about him, and I'd wager they knew about the Starbreaker as well, and said possession may have been why he was a target. I do think it's indisputable that the starbreaker is known to Dis; where exactly is one to find anybody who knows what it is, and how to use it? Only in Dis. I don't remember if it was said or not, but in my faulty memory I doubt he figured it out by trial and error, and I also doubt he figured out its destructive use without being informed of the possibility either.In conclusion, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they knew what the starbreaker was, what it did, or even that they were actively searching for it. I only doubt that they know that we are the ones who have it now.
>>2311941>> Consider leaving an escape route for the Sinners to flee, if it means leaving the Shards behind.Too late, we already gave Maria that we're more interested in killing them than getting shards, to the point we'd refuse to spare Marcel even though he begged to give us information on the rest of them. Besides. Once we killed Marcel when we didn't have to and it wasn't in our best interest, we need to kill the rest of them to be consistent.
>>2311975NAh shards are priority 1 sinners are 2. We killed Marcel because he was a traitor and trying to become a double traitor. Furthermore we had no way to ensure his veracity and if I was in his place I’d lie to try and get free, or my captors killed.
Just tossing out my two cents on the nuking:They said the funeral was in a crypt and Dis is a very vertical city, it's quite likely that the crypt is not on a top level and would not only be hard to find with the ma but would probably take the star through several levels before reaching the funeral if it even manages to reach, not only would that kill hundreds of unrelated people, it would also not necessarily be all that effective if at all.My second point is that while there is only one star above Dis, we can cancel star-drops after they've been initiated, so we can target a location in Dis, wait until a distant star reaches somewhere near the location and cancel the star-drop. We could use this method to stockpile stars for several attacks.
>>2312328>My second point is that while there is only one star above Dis, we can cancel star-drops after they've been initiated, so we can target a location in Dis, wait until a distant star reaches somewhere near the location and cancel the star-drop. We could use this method to stockpile stars for several attacks.Can the star breaker actually move stars horizontally? I thought it could, but I haven't seen anyone mention it so I assumed I was misremembering.Also if it can it seems very very overpowered, we could just level the whole fucking city, use up all the stars. Who cares? We third men are too brainlet to use them for anything anyway.Move the stars would make great propaganda too. Spell out a message in the sky condemning the sinners and demanding the people rise up. Though that would reveal that we have the star breaker and probably make them flip out and triple their efforts to kill us.
>>2312397I'm afraid the stars could destroy the vessels holding the shards, requiring us to use them discreetly. Also, it would be quite hard to actually spell out a message with the method described without risking some very close calls.
>>2312413Yeah there are definitely some thing I'd like clarified>can the star breaker move stars, and more importantly does Orion know or could figure out how to do that?>how devastating does Orion think dropping a star would be on a creature such as an incredibly powerful witch?>Is Orion's chief personal objective to punish the sinners or to restore the sun? If we're primarily out for revenge then yeah, let's bomb the funeral.
>>2312430Regarding the first question, the star breaker has been shown to move the nearest star to the target location during the train sequence, too lazy to find a citation.Regarding the second question, considering the fact that witches can be killed through force, a giant metal object dropping on top of one and probably forming an explosion or some kind of shockwave considering the craters they formed, should be enough to kill most things. It probably won't kill gods, but I really doubt anything short of one could survive a star-drop.Regarding the last question, pretty sure his objective is restoring the sun according to most of the quest. Regardless, that shouldn't affect our decision since killing a large amount of the seven would still really help with obtaining the shards, considering they'll be unguarded.
>>2312829Agreed with all this. However on the second point DO keep in mind that the funeral is near the bottom of the city and this place make the habitats in judge dredd seem small. I doubt the star will penentrate deep enough to do what we need.
>>2312842Right, yeah, that was one of my main issues with this plan, we don't know where the funeral is, nor do we know if we can find it on the map, nor do we know if it'll even reach that deep.Now that I'm thinking about it, considering the layered structure of the city, if a star does reach that deep, it could cause some massive damage to the city
Ouro is going to die before this quests finishes, isn't he?
>>2312905>Ouro>short for Ouroboros>implying he's not eternal
>>2312905Oh no, anon, no no no no. We're already on our fourth or fifth Ouro.
>>2312829Why do you think the shards will be unguarded? It's not like the Sinners guard them personally at all times.
>>2312842>>2312848The fall causes an actual crater a hundred feet wide. Why would you think this wouldn't crash all the way through in a firestorm?
>>2314360It obviously wouldn't be completely unguarded, but we'd basically neutralize the boss fight and the most competent opponent on any siege.
>>2314461Note that the star itself remains undamaged by the impact. Which means Second Man technology can survive comparable conditions.
>>2314759But they don't really have Second Man tech anymore. They're not going to build their buildings out of steel, but out of concrete.Also, the satellite was damaged, but the Wick we gave it managed to repair it.>>2314731>It obviously wouldn't be completely unguarded, but we'd basically neutralize the boss fight and the most competent opponent on any siege.This. They keep their shards secret, it's the evidence for their crime. Also, just in case this is relevant, the Iron Duke added his dice to the opposed group effort rolls. If killing the Sinners removed their rolls, made every shard dive easier, that would be great.
>>2312829> considering they'll be unguarded.What makes you think this? There's still the whole "City full of people" thing, and most of the Sinners bases are also major centres of production. Assuming that's where they're keeping the shards as well and that one or more of them didn't squirrel theirs away somewhere that we could spend way too long searching for it in a city dull of people whose lives and homes we just wrecked with a falling star, even if we kill ALL the Sinners the resulting destabilization of power would make it difficult to get all the shards even if we knew where they were.Sorry. I said city full of people. There's also all the witches and imps and shades and God knows what else crawled out of the Earth.Strategically we're not in any position to capitalize on bringing down a starbreaker and we might actually end up in a worse position if the whole city goes on a vengeful manhunt instead of us only worrying about the Sinners forces, which they're also playing power games with each other at the moment. If we don't kill all the Sinners we might just end up allowing one or two survivors the opportunity to consolidate the City's resources to focus on us. Overall while I can't say that killing Sinners doesn't weaken the overall strength of our opposition,it might result in their reduced strength being highly concentrated on us increasing the effective strength we have to fight.Side note: Don't be seduced by the usefulness of the Snake. There is no way they don't have a plan for dealing with us,and the first to attack usually wins so let's make sure we attack it first. Because it's fucking weird and creepy and mysterious I think that we should kill at least one more Sinner personally and tell them that the Snake was behind it so that they can tell us what know about it. Because I am THIS PARANOID I would also prefer to repeat that step with a second Sinner to verify the information independently. Back to the Star, tactically it's dubious that it will actually kill the Sinners for reasons of location, they fact that they have fucking Magic, that apparently they can dig dead people out of earth and bring them back alive. Aliveish. But they might be able to burrow into the Earth for protection, teleport away, jump to a new body, turn insubstantial and let it pass through them, catch the Starbreaker with a giant golem, etc. We don't know their capabilites.Now, that might just seem like speculation but there's one other thing I've noticed people not discussing which is concerning. The Star is a Holy Artifact that's rare AND irreplaceable. Especially concerning is how >>2312397> Also if it can it seems very very overpowered, we could just level the whole fucking city, use up all the stars. Who cares? We third men are too brainlet to use them for anything anyway.After we spent the whole quest developing Orion as someone who cares VERY MUCH.
>>2315146Regarding Dis. IIt seems like it's a city that's just been built over itself time and again. So while they probably didn't use use second man construction material and techniques after the Age ended, the original City made from 2nd Age material is probably still there just like the Train that still worked and the Star itself.Second of all, the Sinners are all to some degree creatures of the Dark and Earth. So it's quite likely that the funeral will be held on raw Earth, and because they're important people it'll probably be somewhere nice and impressive. Which to me says defiled 2nd Age building that was constructed at ground level.Finally Dis is a weird ass place full of Witches and shit, and Concrete is just hard and chunky dirt paste. While I'm sure the majority of people here live in building that are to be good enough, I wouldn't put it past them to have some sort of Witch-crete concrete that's been strengthened by perverse magics, or might even act as an Earth bubble of sorts. A Star is too precious to waste for any good reason really, so let's at least try not to destroy it for a bad reason like an uninformed and risky gamble.
>>2315321>Second of all, the Sinners are all to some degree creatures of the Dark and Earth.I don't think this is true, we know the Golemist is the only witch, the bridesmaid is an old power, and the imp dude is probably an imp himself. I think the others are / were human.
>>2315306>The Star is a Holy Artifact that's rare AND irreplaceable. It is, however, recyclable. That's what we did with the last one we found, we filled it with 30 Wick, it repaired itself and zoomed back into the sky.
>>2315335The rescue crews will find it before us.
>>2315367And then we can take it from them. Won't be harder than storming the Thorn or the VFC.
>>2315331> Implying Humans can't be creatures of dark and earth.They might not have eaten dirt like the Witches, but they've turned away from the light.>>2315335> Hold up,” Beatrice announces. “Now that I know Augustine can’t see us I’ve got to do some preparation.”She sets the keg down and starts to slowly work it open.> “Hey, do you think we’ll find another star in here?”> “Don’t sound so hopeful.”> You lift your wick so that light falls across the crater’s wall. It is littered with torn-up chunks of metal mixed in with the broken concrete.> “Not all of them survived the fall in one piece.”> “Shit. I guess you ain’t piecing that one together by just shaking your lamp at it, are you?”> “Unlikely.”So I can't see trying to punch through a city with the Star boding well for it being in one piece.And oh look this one got all fucked up by concrete. Looks like you were wrong here >>2315146 as well.Like you said, Orion is practical. If you want to bring down and almost certainly a Star, a relic from the Second Age that holds the holy Flame in the sky like a miniature sun, undoing the time when Orion restored a fallen star and for the first test felt actual hope for the future instead of grim determination to try his best and either succeed against improbable odds or die trying, you're going to need to provide an exceptionally confident chance of success with an indisputable contribution to Orions raison d'etre of resurrecting the Wheel God and returning the Sun.We aren't here to punish the Sinners, though we will if we can. You have made no convincing arguments that the Star will be able to kill the Sinners, nor that killing them at the Funeral will make it easier to get the Shards.We can throw the possibility of the Star being fixable right out.
>>2315384You mean the attacks where we thoroughly planned and prepared a city wide series of emergencies to deceive the unsuspecting defenders into leaving the place less defended so we could avoid as much direct confrontation as possible and infiltrated the place while they were still unaware and then spent most of our time running away from the security forces and got heavily injured and almost died and ended up separated with Bea and Abe sent off to the horror hospital? You think that's the same as storming the bases full of soldiers that not only know about us but hate us for destroying the Green Flame, right after we kill the people who keep the city running in a way that destroys a large portion of it and killing a bunch of people who live here and have family and friends who will also want revenge on us? You are really bad at plans.
>>2315462>>2315492Orion has absolutely no in-game reason to believe that the star wouldn't kill the sinners. It was being used as a threat to wipe out an entire small town.
>>2315537He knows that the Golemist is an extremely tough witch. And the Snake is even stronger.
>>2315588You mean the Golemist that's at the funeral? That rationale is kind of stupid. Hey most of my targets are at one place at the same time but eh fuck that just save it for one of them :^)
>>2315588He knows nothing of the sort. Who says that the Snake is strong? Ominous, yes. Strong? Who knows.>>2315600And this person has a point.
>>2315617We need to ask Bea what she was about to say about the Snake, it sounded like she knew something or at least had a suspicion.
>>2315664I don't think she knows anything specific, but hey, no reason not to.
>>2315537> Orion is unable to tell the difference between a small town and The City of Dis. Pronounced so you can hear the capital letters.*Really*. Orion also wouldn't waste a Star on the Sinners unless it wasa desperate situation and he was sure it would work, and he definitely would know that the star would be destroyed.
>>2315856And you're wrong. He considered using it on the VFC as a distraction.
>>2315856What are you even talking about? The goal isn't to destroy the entire city of Dis. It's to destroy the one building where the funeral is being held? I would assume that building is smaller in size than a small town.
>when you realize we should have sent someone to spy on the funeral instead of relying on interludesI'm sure the security is strict but damn we don't even know how big it is or what kind of protections are in place. Which are like, y'know, the things that matter for making any informed plan.
There will be more funerals. We don't drop a star now, we can always kill another Sinner and wait.
>>2315879And I'm open to using it to strike against our enemies if you can come up with sufficient proof that it will be worth it if it works, and also make an actual plan to ensure that it will work if we try it. Even if we could get another Star, they aren't things that you destroy just for a chance to kill your enemies. Especially when there's a chance that killing them with the Star could mess up our actual goal of recovering the shards. Especially since it's not our only course of action. You might see it as a missed chance to kill the Sinners, but I see it as coming at an opportunity cost considering that the people of Dist would have a serious hard on for us if we did that. We're a tough tussling muscle wizard, but that won't save us again an entire City. Heck we already destroyed the Green Flame and we've been quote unwilling to bend our own code of conduct to accept or even understand the laws and social presume Dis follows. Oh sure we've destroyed an bunch of railroad infrastructure, assassinated one of their community leaders, and ended the production of a critical resources necessary for them to live in Dis without they sun. That's all harmful stuff from their pointpoint of view, but for the majority of Citizens they don't much care for getting involved in things actively unless it personally is important to them.Because dropping a star on the city will change us from just another source of trouble of the city but not really drdangerous to normal every day people.Because if we drop a Satellite we willl appear hypocritical for destroying an artifact while refusing to accept any their changes as being necessary roo, AND a risk that could and would indiscriminately kill bystanders and cause destruction on a wide scale.
>>2318303>And I'm open to using it to strike against our enemies if you can come up with sufficient proof that it will be worth it if it works, and also make an actual plan to ensure that it will work if we try it. Well yeah, I don't think it's a sure thing. It's almost definitely not going to kill Rene, unless he's on his third life. I don't think the Golemist is as invulnerable as you guys keep painting her, a sudden explosion could take her out, and a falling star is definitely sudden.So yes, I can definitely see why you might not want to use a paradigm changer to kill people that won't automatically cause us to level up or get shards. I simply think that it will make it easier to storm their respective bases. I know you disagree.>Because if we drop a Satellite we will appear hypocritical for destroying an artifact while refusing to accept any their changes as being necessary too, This is silly. Us destroying a satellite to help us bring back the sun != Them killing the sun in the first place. You've got strong arguments, don't use weak ones like this.
>>2318328> Us destroying a satellite to help us bring back the sun != Them killing the sun in the first place. But you see you've missed the crux of my argument there. I am not confident that calling down the Starbreaker would contribute enough to bring back the Sun to justify destroying it, as well as the people of Dis. After all, while they rejected the Wheel God and are degenerates they still have the wick inside them. They benefited from the fall of the Wheel God, bit they didn't cause it.As man of Faith, and from how Orion has acted in the quest I believe that he would still prefer to kindle those wicks instead of extinguishing them for being dim.And that he would not casually destroy a Star just to make things easier on himself. He's all about doing what's necessary, not what's convenient.> So yes, I can definitely see why you might not want to use a paradigm changer to kill people that won't automatically cause us to level up or get shards.What? It's not at all a matter of levels. There is literally no level up that could let us solo a city out for our blood. I don't know how many of the redcloaks would stay with us either afterwards when they see the destruction of their home and the bodies of the dead.While I agree using the Star would change the paradigm, you still haven't given any reasoning or plan for how we would be able to capitalize on the situation.For one thing we suffer from a severe lack of manpower. At best we might be able to assault one place and hopefully find the shard fast enough to get out before we get trapped in there. It'll cost a significant number of our redcloaks lives most likely. That's assuming they even continue to follow us. More allies wouldn't matter though, because Orion is the only one who can bear to get close enough to the Shard to take it. There aren't any other Lamplighters here yet that we know of, and the closest there is to a Flame Artist is Bea.Causing a bunch of death and destruction won't distract them this time because people know we're here now and we already played that card.So when we storm whatever place they'll get word of it and swarm it. You haven't proposed anything to deal with the very public murder of our enemies, which no matter how deserved is essentially vigilante justice in the eyes of the Citizens who have their own laws and such and will suffer directly from the destruction.Please,do feel free to elaborate on how you would handle those two problems. Preferably in more detail than > Won't be harder than storming the Thorn or the VFC.Because I don't see how it wouldn't be significantly more difficult since we have no groundwork laid to allow anything but a head on assault unlike the other two, against a larger number of troops who are unlikely to leave their positions and the defensive advantage to gives them.What's your actual plan past dropping the Star.
>>2318328I think you must have been projecting when you accused me of not liking the plan because wouldn't get mechanical benefit from it in terms of leveling up as well since you seem to be overly focused on the misconception that killing the Sinners with the Star will automatically make it easier to assault their bases.> Also, just in case this is relevant, the Iron Duke added his dice to the opposed group effort rolls. If killing the Sinners removed their rolls, made every shard dive easier, that would be great.The reason those rolls were happening was because they were trying to deal with the surprise crises we manufactured to draw off the guards and remain unnoticed until we could finish grabbing the Shard. Since they would be prepared for that sort of thing after we killed the Iron Duke with that plan, future encounters could be wildly different. Assuming we even kill them all with the Star, that still leaves the entire rest of the city, who know that we're here and that we oppose everything District stands for and hate the Sinners for pulling down the Sun. We're such obvious culprits that it doesn't even matter if they can prove it. Especially if we attack one of the Sinners bases at the same time which you have to remember aren't just armed bunkers but key industries to the City and places that people work in and live their lives.You want to bomb people mourning the loss of a peer at a funeral, in a matter that is likely to cause a lot of other casualties as collateral damage, then launch an open attack on another part of the City for reasons the people of Dis don't understand but were willing to tolerate until we started to hurt people. Re >>2316058 first of all I'm not sure where you are getting this confidence that we'll be able to make a precision strike using the Starbreaker since it's a device we don't really understand and we're dropping the star from really far away. I also find it irksome that you're assuming it won't be very destructive while at the same time >>2315537 is claiming that we wouldn't doubt it's killing power because it was used to threaten out wiping out a whole town.Regardless, the kind of force we would need to ensure killing the Sinners with the Star would cause significant collateral damage on impact. The satellite isn't going to gently come down and crush them either, it's going to be carrying of lot of energy in its velocity that will have to go somewhere. Even assuming we can get it to hit perfectly it's still going to damage everything around it.
>>2315588>>2315617>>2315879Finally I'm going to quickly address the concept of "strength". Just as we are only one man who can't fight all of Dis at once on our own, yes the Sinners are also mortal and not invulnerable, even the Golem Witch. Hit hard a enough and they WILL go down. Personally I would prefer to not have to also hit them through a building by trying to tell a very distant artifact through a device that we don't know much about operating and uses a language we also don't know to hit them with.Because even though they're still killable, some of them have lived a very long time without being killed when almost the entire world was their enemy. They definitely don't trust or like each other, because at least two of them are outright unable to think that way in the case of the Witch and the Snake.Whereas the Human Sinners have stood their ground against the two Sinners that arguably have the most direct raw power and ability, dealing with them as equal's after having risen to the top of a city filled with Witches and Imps.I can't imagine that they don't all recognize the danger of being gathered in one spot like that outside their respective areas other control in the city. Out if the possibility one the people among them would sieze the chance to take one or all of them if possible.And since they've all managed to live a terribly long time - the Humans are measure against the expected lifespan of someone who treats with Witches and Old Powers and Politics, they probably should have died several times over already - I don't think they won't have any contigency plans for a quick escape or a prepared defensive point etc before factoring in their personal capabilities.The Golem Witch might even know about the Starbreaker if shas he was tracking it after that one witch stole it. Don't forget they have magical divining, or spies and minions, evem just employees and informants to gather information. It's not just enough to be strong. You have to control the situation so that your strength can be applied, and pevent getting into a position where you're doing the equivalent of fighting a Star..I don't think using the Star to kill them is a bad idea. I think doing it with no preparation make sure they can't escape it or defend against it is a bad idea. I think doing it in the City is a terrible idea, because of the difficulty aiming it to just hit one building when it's going to have to travel down from the heaven along a parabolic arc, and ideally not hit any other buildings that might be in the way first. It's fear it's not really something it's designed for. If we do use it to try and kill on or more Sinners I feel it needs to either be when we're ready to leave Dis with a fair amount of haste, or that we need to get the people on our side or at least against the Sinners. We need to increase our strength, not in the sense of personal combat or magic,but the strength of our position to control events.
>>2315664And something that keeps bothering is that if it was a simple matter of dropping a Star on them to kill them, why didn't the Witch we took it off of do that when he had the whole tI time he was running from the Golem Witch in fear of his life. He definitely wasn't concerned about destroying the Stars, he could have dropped several of them without hesitation. Hell he was a Witch so he would probably flatten Dis completely to make sure he was safe.That he didn't try to use that against the Golem Witch concerns me greatly. Almost as much as the fear that he DID try it and it didn't work.
>>2318915There is one star above Dis, I'm not sure how many times that has to be repeated. Also your posts are incredibly autistic and all over the place insofar as your rationale.
>>2319911> Up above is what you can only describe as a crater of some kind, the centre-point of the cracks and the ruined and ravaged ground. A vast dimple in the earth that plunges straight through the foot or so of concrete and has kicked up soil and rock and broken the concrete plains all around it like a stone through a window. > The crater is large, over a hundred feet in diameter and the light of your lantern only goes so far. It stretches out ahead of you, dark and unknowable.> Hours pass as the two of you push the handcar through the cracked concrete plains. This isn’t just the result of one impact, you belatedly realise. There have been multiple, all spread out across this area. Is this why there are so few stars in the sky up here?Why can't you be fucking arsed to actually source your claims like in >>2315537There's no evidence that a single star would do enough damage to kill the Sinners if they were protected by a building or if we only got a near-miss.As for your claims that my arguments are all over the place, I'm the one going back and checking the threads for what was actually said and seen and done while you and the other guy are just pulling shit out of your assistance that sounds about right but actually isn't. I don't feel you're qualified to declare an argument as "all over the place" when you can't even check the quality of your own.
>>2319911Also I never said anything about us dropping multiple stars. Some Anons were talking about moving the Stars but we don't know how to do that.> It’s a tiresome process and one learned entirely through rote. But what else can the Starbreaker do? Is this a command module for the stars themselves? Should mortal hands even attempt to tinker with it? They claim not to know where Zeno found it save that it was some kind of Second Age ruin.However moving the stars isn't impossible > “There’s only one star above Dis,” Abe says. “Any other we call would have to travel some distance.”Not really useful to hit a single person with any accuracy buy if you don't care about flattening the city you make make up what you lack with accuracy on volume.However Zeno did encounter the Golem Witch outside Dis so that's not relevant. Doesn't matter, the point I was making was that he had no reason to continue running from the Golem she sent after him if there was the possibility that dropping the star could kill her. God knows he dropped more than enough near Abes town.We also get an idea of her power level from his journal> And she made a sign I knew not and it was as if a great invisible hand had seized me up and was pushing me back away from her at a terrifying speed. By the time I had recovered I was miles away, my back against the concrete and my clothes and belongings scattered across the wasteland. I cried in impotent fury and fled.> Of course I didn’t go back. I know that she could have just as easily disassembled me as she did humiliate me. So we know she's capable of at least casually and quickly creating not just the significant amount of force to throw him that far, but to also be able to control well enough that he wasn't harmed. And that's jus the least we know of what she can do.As for Orion's willingness to drop the star, we actually already went through this before when we first saw where the Golemist lived and this was the result.> You eye the dirty metal briefcase that houses the ancient Second Age machine. Just as the Second Men placed the stars in the sky to watch over the world, so they created the means to pull them down. But even the stars dim and blink out now in the slow dying of the world and you’ll not call on the sacrifice of such holy machines without good cause.So no, Orion is not confident in the Star killing her. Nor is he willing to sacrifice it without at least making sure that it would kill her. Even then it's something to consider when we don't have any other options, not something to try and hope it works because that would really convenient for us.I know I'm writing long posts. It's because I feel it's important to be accurate about my reasons and to fully explain myself.If you came to a text based rpg to not read then you're doing it wrong.How about you pick a specific point to refute. God knows I made enough of them. If you can refute one I'm happy to admit it was wrong.
Golly it's sure gonna be fun to kill the sinners with our star.
>>2321643The only thing I get out of that is>the sacrifice of such holy machines without good cause.You're pointing at Zeno's ramblings as if they have any bearing on Orion. Nothing you quoted said that Zeno attempted to kill her with a star, so him running or not is entirely irrelevant.Also stop being so hung up on the golemist, there are plenty of other targets at the same location, and potentially causing their deaths with the press of a few buttons seems like a good cause to me. Actually, it is the Only good cause, it is his whole reason for being.
>>2321850Not agreeing with the guy you quoted, but killing the sinners is not the main goal, restoring the sun is. Still though, killing the sinners would greatly help us in reaching that goal.Just have to figure out where the funeral is, whether we can actually reach it with a star, whether it'd still be effective enough to kill them at whatever depth they're at, and how much damage it does to the city (arguably the least important).
>>2321850The thing is, once again, that if the Golemist is so powerful than the others must be equally powerful.Witches don't share except by necessity.The reason I have been talking about her is because her and the snake are the only two we know jack shit about.Well and that one of the others might be an Imp who could tank the Star no fucking problem if he has other lives left.Once again you don't respond to a single criticism made about dropping the Star.Like we need to actually have a fucking plan for that. It's not going to be as easy as just pressing a few buttons.And like I pointed out repeatedly earlier and this guy did here >>2321908 Orions ONLY true cause is to bring back the effing Sun.
>>2322551>The thing is, once again, that if the Golemist is so powerful than the others must be equally powerful.That's just wrong, it doesn't mean they're equally powerful, it just means they have different strengths. The duke was strong but he was chosen because he could part the flames. The ship guy was chosen because he's good with ships, that doesn't equal him having some kind of power that protects him from a point blank star-drop.
>>2322588True. But they must have something to keep from being enslaved under the witch for his services as opposed to being able to refuse them them to her.If it really is just that they need for instance Ship dudes skills, then they would protect him no?We don't know enough about them to ensure a kill.
>>2322551>Once again you don't respond to a single criticism made about dropping the Star.I wasn't aware that I was part of your debate?We have a target of opportunity. All we need to do is decide on whether or not to capitalize on it, dial in the coordinates and make sure we are very far away from the impact site. We're dropping a bomb on their heads, it does not require much finesse beyond making sure our target can actually be hit. If its underground or a direct hit is difficult or unlikely then it's not worth it since we'd only end up with civilian casualties but no guaranteed kills on our targets.>The thing is, once again, that if the Golemist is so powerful than the others must be equally powerful.This is false and you are basing most of your points on unproven conjecture.
>>2322733>The thing is, once again, that if the Golemist is so powerful than the others must be equally powerful.> This is false and you are basing most of your points on unproven conjecture.I have repeatedly and explicitly stated that it would not necessarily be the same kind of direct power. But without it, they would either be driven off or forced to work under the others. Therefore is has to exist.Maybe the Ship guy has a bunch of Witches working on his security, making up in numbers what they lack in raw power. > We're dropping a bomb on their heads, it does not require much finesse beyond making sure our target can actually be hit. See that's the tricky point when people have magic and shit. They put a lot of effort into making sure hits don't land.
>>2322821>I have repeatedly and explicitly stated that it would not necessarily be the same kind of direct power. But without it, they would either be driven off or forced to work under the others. Therefore is has to exist.Ehhhh. They all signed the Compact, they all agreed to work together. And now they're friends, mostly. There's really nothing that says they're equally powerful, all they needed to be was useful. Fleet of ships, Senate contacts, Imp company who set the whole thing up, Snake, Golemist, Fire power, and some expert doctor who needs to cooperate willingly to be of use that also has an army of monsters. The humans have their own strengths and reasons not to be fucked with, this really can't be used as proof that they'd survive a bombing.
>>2322898> And now they're friends, mostly. Not a concept that applies to Witches. And the Snake is helping us to kill them. As for the humans, while they don't has special powers of their own the Golem Witch might save them. Or let them die. Or they might have their own Witches protecting them from attacks. Or they might make extensive use of body doubles. Or even be multiple people that just use one identity.Honestly them I'm less worried about anyways and I wonder if it's worth using the Star to kill the humans even. After all, the concern about them is more the institutions they've built up around themselves. To put it bluntly, while their services and talents may make th irreplaceable to Dis and the Powers, for the purpose of defending the shards from us they are super replaceable.
>>2323148>Not a concept that applies to Witches.Maria was upset that Snake didn't go to the funeral. She went to Marcel's funeral herself. She's upset over his death. So for whatever reason, witch or not, she cares enough to not want to tyrannize or kill the rest of her 'friends'.
>>2324801Doesn't mean she still wouldn't have tried to put him under her direct control if she could. Or kill him if he stopped being interesting or unique.
>>2324801She's also been a witch from the 2nd age or close to it. She's old enough to have gotten strange.
I started reading snakecatcher, I've made it to thread 20 and I think that I finally understand why some of you people hate each other and go ballistic when stupid or dangerously risky votes win.I'm really glad that I'm just reading a story and not there blowing a gasket between every update
>>2327765Ahahaha, I'm in the middle of reading it, too. I really hate how the voters pretty much gifted Cennen's spine to Hiss. I was so amazed and horrified that they didn't get that she was an abuser and that they should not trust her with any sort of power, social power or otherwise.
>>2327954Also evil and destructive.
>>2327954I think they all perfectly embody the domestic abuse victim. Hiss hurts them, they get upset, she apologise and maybe show a miniscule amount of regret and say something akin to an apology. Thus the cycle continues.I'm sure it's only going to keep repeating up until the end and get worse as time goes on.My heart goes out to all the sensible posters, it must have been a trying time in your lives.
>>2327976>My heart goes out to all the sensible posters, it must have been a trying time in your lives.>sensible postersI don't think there were any. There were people who started to get it, but fell for the 'we can change her' meme.Also, I think I know what brought on your comment, lol. Improper and unethical disposal of potions?
>>2328141Yes. Though it wouldn't be a stretch to say that everything involving potions so far has been improper and unethical, if you give healing and identification brews a pass
>>2328141There was at least one that I know of who was sensible till the end.
>>2328141To be fair, Cennen himself was a pretty amoral dude. Like. He just wanted to experiment on the fabric of creation itself and sometimes people it was convenient or he had a good idea. Not like he did anything to anyone he wasn't willing to do to himself.
>>2338110>if he had a good ideaNo need to be so limited, we had tons of bad ideas too!
>>2328141>>2327976>Sensible posters>Poor Cennen, the domestically abused. Hiss was so terrible, waaah.Yeah, Hiss was a bitch, but if anyone's deluding themselves into thinking Cennen wasn't equally abusive, manipulative, and just all-round a horrible person then there's really no hope for you.For me it was never about changing Hiss, they deserved each other. It was a beautiful, broken, dysfunctional relationship built on stabbing each other in the heart while riding a burning boat into harbor, and literally everyone in the quest was worse off for ever knowing EITHER of them.Remember that time everyone thought it was funny to get Zigzag addicted to drugs, and then taunt her into doing things by extorting her addiction? How everyone got pissed at Orange for being stuck in Hiss shirt all the time, despite the fact he had no say in the matter? How the ENTIRE QUEST revolved around us literally grabbing up snakes and saddling them with magical wishbonds that effectively made them slaves to our every word? Over and over and over?It's fine and all to call out Hiss as being abusive, or a monster, but don't try to sell this shit that Cennen wasn't a complete monster as well. Not when Ouro went out of his way on several occasions to blatantly point out he did horrible things to everyone around him.
>>2340851I was talking more about the people who tried to steer Cennen away from the psychopathic behavior early on but got slapped in the face by idiot voters and dice deciding ties every other update. I am on thread 40 now and Cennen is beyond salvation now. None of them spare a single thought to the misery or suffering they cause others. Hell people actually tried to tip over the cart with the Ishmid things and needed a second "are you sure" update to avoid that particular disaster.and I guess it's my fault for bringing it up but man I said I recently began reading it, it would have been nice if you didn't throw out spoilers, even if they may be small.
>>2340851Oi, you're being too detailed. Don't spoil things for people who haven't read it. And don't worry, I think Cennen's evil too.
>>2340862Yeahhh, I have no idea what people were thinking. Good think Aash stopped us.