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War, war never changes.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=Fallout%2C+Civ%2C+Courier%2C+New+Vegas%2C+Enclave%2C+America

Last Thread
>>1772342

You are the Courier. After many years of building and preparing, a great prize, the Divide, is finally yours. But not by your hand, and, not alone, as another force the Mutant Liberation Army stages operations underground having betrayed the Marked Men for their weakness. The NCR's grand counter offensive turns the tide of the war in their favor, despite being outnumbered and facing foes on almost all sides. And you go off to meet an old companion you have not seen in many years.
>>
>>1784694

>>1784222
After more wandering, meandering, and dice rolling you the bus finally makes its way to some kind of heavy underground gates and bigger highways with more traffic. Several actually, before exiting into a vast underground cavern.

A sprawling industrial complex is seen before you, as Old World industrial spires and factories rise up from floor to roof. Railway bridges criss cross the ceiling around giant pillars of stone, concrete, and metal. The surrounding landscape is strewn with green glowing nuclear waste, and curious crystals growing among them, glowing green.

People, mutants, vehicles, and slaves move in and out of the underground city, along with entire train cars moving above.

It would seem you have arrived.

"Oi, normie. Welcome to Complex 80"

---

The Bus makes a stop at the gate and drops you off in front of the gate. A huge structure of concrete and steel, piled on generously with scrap and garbage tied and welded together to add bulk to it. You are greeted by several guards, one mutant and several humans plus a few ghouls. Big jury rigged weapons turrets hang above pointing down at you from the ceiling and the top of the wall, directly aimed at the tunnel entrance. You also spot a blind shaman on a chair, the old hag smoking a pipe and breathing out in circles of smoke.

The guards and soldiers appear to be from one of two groups. One appears like the fiends did in the Mojave, skulls and motor parts hung from their bodies and tatoos. The other almost looks like Tony Gam for some reason. Black leather jackets with a big 80s sign on the back, denim pants, thick beards, and sunglasses smoking cigars and with big pistols or SMG's on their side. You spot several motorcycles parked near on the otherside of the gate.

"Oi. Vincent Vincent told us you were coming.

Don't you cause no trouble or brother trouble is gonna come for you. Got it?"

---

Is there anything you wish to do before you enter?
>>
>>1784764
Make them swear on their dark god to not harm our mind body or soul like the forecaster said, unless that was for when we meet a witch lady.
>>
>>1784776
QM, please answer this.
>>
Wait QM, do we have any boons remaining?
>>
>>1784788
Just one more thread for another boon

>>1784764
Supporting. Do the thing he said not to harm our body or mind
>>
>>1784775
This
>>
>>1784775
>>1784790
>>1784819
Writing
>>
"Before I enter I'd like to make a pact with the Great Elder One for my saftey."

The guards seem confused, but the old hag puts down her pipe and stares at you, before standing up.

"Haven't heard that in a long time. Yes, a long time. Sometimes the tribals try, but they don't have a choice."

The guards still look confused, but don't question it.

"I demand my safe passage in and out of this place, unmolested in body, soul or mind by the Great Elder One. In promise, I will not molest anyone here either by body, soul, or mind."

"Ah, a fair deal. A fair deal. What's your forfeit?"

"What?"

"Your forfeit dearie. We need a mortgage in case you do break your word."

"Will money work"

"We're no longer accepting cash dearier, so you'll have to offer us, either of Body, Soul or Mind. What's your forfeit? Flesh or bone, sanity or soul, thought or information."

>What say
>>
>>1784877
"And don't worry. So long as you do keep your word, we won't touch whatever you pledge. Ah ha ha ha."
>>
>>1784883
"How about a nice shipment of Jet that I bought in? That affects the mind and body of who takes it."
>>
>>1784888
>That affects the mind and body of who takes it."
Mind, body, and soul depending on who takes it.

Guess it's a good thing we brought these Jet samples?
>>
>>1784888
Isn't that supposed to be a gift?

>>1784877
Will a hand do?
And what's your forfeit going to be?
>>
>>1784888
"I told you, we have no need for material possessions. Even then our god provides us recipes for enlightenment more powerful than what you have in those syringes.

We know you. Do not ask a rich man to forfeit his money for honesty, for he will have much more where it came from.

Gold and goods the Great Elder One does not want or need. But a little bit of flesh is quite valuable. You could pledge us some of your flesh."
>>
>>1784901
>And what's your forfeit going to be?
"A god cannot break his word, but were such a thing possible, he would offer you flesh and blood as a reward.

To some, it is a dearly departed one, or perhaps a loved one that is missing from you? I sense someone has been taken from you, yes."
>>
>>1784902
Have my left hand

We're right handed? Right OP?
>>
>>1784908
Your ambidextrous.
>>
>>1784910
An appendix? That's flesh, and 1 of a kind.
>>
>>1784902
We could actually regrow flesh unlike our mind and soul from what I know, so let's forfeit that.

The contractees also won't manipulate each other to have them break their contracts first?

>>1784908
We could offer our non-dominant hand without mentioning that part.
>>1784910
Neat. Let's give our left hand for simplicity.
>>
>>1784912
What about our liver? I'd bet that's in high demand amongst the MLA.
>>
>>1784913
"Very well. A hand. Do not think yourself so fortunate because you can grow it back. Others have tried!

I must also warn you, do not take that which belongs from our god. For he will repay you MUCH greater than what you stole. As a binding agreement will not take by theft nor barter nor force that which is marked for our god.

Under these terms we pledge your saftey."

>Accept
>No
>Other?
>>
>>1784922
What if i'm given something marked by your god? Is this a I can't have it sort if deal, or a don't steal thing?
>>
>>1784922
>Do not think yourself so fortunate because you can grow it back. Others have tried!
What happens if they try to regrow it back?

>that which is marked for our god.
What do the markings look like?

>>1784922
>>Other?
What sort of contracts have others made in the past for something like this?
>>
>>1784926
>>1784928
"Niner has pledged to us that he will not trade off that which we have marked, and his men respect it. Should he or they break their bargain, it will be them that pay."

>>1784928
"They will be marked on their forehead or over their heart and chest."
>>
>>1784933
Accept to the terms, and keep our hands to ourselves, I don't want to get meme on for taking things.
>>
>>1784933
Okay. Sounds fair.
>>
>>1784933
Oh. So people.
Is it possible to remove those markings, or are they permanently stuck with those?

Are we going to get a marking like that?

>>1784937
>We literally lose our hand because we couldn't keep our hands to ourselves.
It'd be a great meme if that happened.
>>
>>1784937
>>1784940
2 for yes, just need one more.

The witch pulls out a blade and slices her hand, and offers it to you, clearly asking the same.

"Fear not, I have no diseases of the blood."
>>
>>1784948
>"Fear not, I have no diseases of the blood."
Is that literally or figuratively speaking?

I'm fine with these current terms, can we request to change them later?
>>
>>1784948
Can we cut our hand ourselves?

Also ask for a receipt need that proof on paper.
>>
>>1784951
Ask for a receipt anon. We need that paperwork, I don't want to get meme out of a hand, because of no signing of paperwork
>>
>>1784952
>Also ask for a receipt need that proof on paper.
And make it in red ink!

>>1784948
Can we talk to any of our companions from here? Like our Brain?
>>
>>1784952
Coincidentally she as a piece of parchment as well.
>>
>>1784956
How considerate of these dark god cultists.

We don't even have a dedicated town hall yet .
>>
>>1784956
>>1784955
Neat. Let's write the contract and get our accessible companions to look over it.

>>1784960
>inb4 the MLA are more organized than us.
>>
>>1784964
We can just read it ourselves.we don't have to drag other people into this.
>>
>>1784967
>>1784964
Use that int 10 to read through it and use per 10 to look at small print
>>
You slice your hand and shake hers, the blood of you both dropping onto the parchment which, a moment before was blank, writes out in simple terms in blood.

-You will not harm or be harmed of body soul or mind here
-You will not steal or barter or forcibly take for that that which is marked by the god, lest he take more from thee than you offered
-this contract grants you safe passage for the duration it is due, until the end of your journey here, and once you have left the MLA

they are eve nice enough to give you the receipt. They have no need of paper contracts, but mortals prefer it
>>
>>1784975
>-You will not steal or barter or forcibly take for that that which is marked by the god, lest he take more from thee than you offered
Does this also extend to our stuff?

>>1784967
>We can just read it ourselves.
>read
Are you sure about that?
>>
>>1784977
We can buy MLA stuff, but not dark god stuff. Kniwing them, they'll probably be rubbing that in our face by making us see our people who were taken as dark god slaves. We can't ask for them back or free them.
>>
>>1784975
>marked by the god
They have a big X in the forehead and chest?

>>1784977
Alright anon now we need to not barter with anyone. Since they can have a X on their chest.
>>
>>1784977
"Yes, but to our priest. If niners men thieve from you, then bring it up with niner or them.

I cannot sense you now, but when I did, I forsaw you tend to have no problems with pickpocketers. Are you not the greatest of them yourself? ha ha ha.
>>
>>1784983
>>1784984
>Alright anon now we need to not barter with anyone. Since they can have a X on their chest.
>This was all according to their plan.

>>1784988
Shit, they're onto us! Abort! Abort!
>>
>>1784989
>Tfw When Niner has a X on his chest. And giving him the Jet counts as barter

>>1784988
Are gifts given to marked ones, barter?
>>
>>1784988
>I cannot sense you now, but when I did,
What makes now different from before? Shouldn't it even be easier now that we're right next to her?
>>
>>1784999
She could feel the palm of our left hand. That's how they have a feel of you, and tell the future.

>Tfw Anons are extra worry about paperwork, after the NCR dick us over for not having patents
>>
The city gates are open to you, and you smell the mix of human inhabitation, rust and nuclear waste, supermutant and ghouls, and diesel and gasoline fumes. The air is filled with the roar of vehicles and machines, and the cracking of whips and wails.

>Head directly to wherever Niner is
>Detour Let's go to (Slave Pit. Cultist Church. Garage. Bar and restaurant. Arms Shop. Barracks.)
>>
>>1784997
>We decide to help some of the slaves around here, because we're a good guy like that.
>We give some gifts to a slave girl as charity.
>tfw the slave girl starts to cackle as she tears off her bloody rags on her forehead to reveal a red X.

>>1785001
>>Tfw Anons are extra worry about paperwork, after the NCR dick us over for not having patents
>In the distance, Oddball has the inexplicable urge to have a smug smirk.
>His inexplicable smug mood improves until he evilly laughs and sips his Salient Purple wine.
>>
>>1785011
Go to niners.
>>
>>1784997
>Are gifts given to marked ones, barter?
"You can give gifts. Just don't try to cheat like handing keys or a means to escape. We will know."
>>
>>1785016
Are buying slaves at a fair price, and taking them with us, against the pact?

>>1785011
>Detour Let's go to Slave Pit.
>>
>>1785011
>>Head directly to wherever Niner is
>>1785022
Maybe we can work out a deal without having to go buy them first.
>>
>>1785022
"Like we said, buy what you will, but not that which is marked by our god.

You notice most of the slaves don't have a mark on their head and chest, so not all of them are marked.
>>
>>1785022
Only cultist slaves i imagine. We can deal all we want with the MLA.
>>
>>1785024
Will the marks be plainly visible, or are they allowed to cover them up?
>>
>>1785026
"They are always visible. This is so others will know."
>>
>>1785027
Alright
I'm the third vote to go see Niner.
I do want to set something up with the slave tho. We can talk with Niner about it.
>>
>tfw niner asks if we should fuck his wife
>tfw told to by him
>tfw she is marked everywhere
>>
>writing
>>
>>1785029 - Late post of mine before I noticed the link to the new thread.


Also I think we need to accept that we can't beat any other faction in any real terms. We need to just focus on trading, expansion and researching, exploring and training everything we can for another decade. Then we can think about making our move.
>>
>>1785049
>Also I think we need to accept that we can't beat any other faction in any real terms.
I refuse, i believe once we build the new Reactor we will snowball.

Quick question QM, what do we need for passive metal generation?
>>
>>1785054
Synthesis is a long ways off, but you can achieve passive metal scavenging from the divide.
>>
>>1785054
>I refuse, i believe once we build the new Reactor we will snowball.
We really, really won't mate. I mean, I'm against wasting time on nuclear tech for now and I'd rather just focus on massive expansion and trying to get better tech from everywhere.

>Quick question QM, what do we need for passive metal generation?
Metal ores / salvage, a mining / salvaging facility, transport and a refinery / smelter.
>>
>>1784975
>>1785027
Neat. Does the contract not work as well if we break it unintentionally?
>>
>>1785054
>Quick question QM, what do we need for passive metal generation?
>>1785057
I don't think we will unless we do a Courier and adventure.
>>
>>1785058
It works perfectly well if we break it unintentionally. As in we lose a hand.
>>
>>1785064
Except I plan on doing a Courier and adventuring everywhere. Seeing as we are so insanely powerful and the rewards are so large.
>>
>>1785054
>I refuse, i believe once we build the new Reactor we will snowball.
>>1785064
Meant to link that.

>>1785073
Personally I wonder why we haven't been doing it more often since that's how we get most of our work done.
>>
>>1785073
Theres no real reason not to adventure and gather tech while homefront works on nuclear reactors. Best of both worlds.
>>
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>>1785056
The Legion were Brutal. And cruel.

But they had order and discipline. They broke slaves to make them stronger, fit them in the heirarchy of their society.

These guys here are another story. As you pass by you see regular acts of cruelty and savagery for the sake of savagery.

Little vendors roast human cadavers on barbecues, hanging the meat alongside brahmin and gecko flesh as though it were no different. Advertisements for "Live barbecues" point towards the large bar and restaurant.

The air is rife with filth and smell. The Legion hung bodies as a warning and punishment to those who defied them. To the raiders and former tribals here, they make it a part of their decoration. Bones, skulls, ribcages, all hung as ornaments on person and buildings, bone laterns and skull lamps. No part of the human is wasted, and you see people regularly dressed in cloaks of human skin. You ask if they were from slaves who tried to escape.

"Sometimes. Escape is a good reason, but eh, sometimes its nice souvenir"

"Souvenir of what?"

"The torture pits of course! No better way to relax and have some good long fun. Get to try new things every time. Keep the skins as a nice reminder since the slaves usually don't make it.

We got some good holotapes too if that's your thing. Want some?"

You've never seen so many psychopaths in one place. This is more raiders than you've ever seen in your whole life actually.

>>1785058
You pretty much will only break if it you kidnap someone. Just don't steal someone.
>>
>>1785078
Mostly the limit on how much we can do per turn I imagine.

>>1785080
I disagree over the utility of nuclear reactors without cold, mass or hot fusion technology ignoring more breeder reactors since they are self-sustaining reactions which are essentially perfect for our very long term focused civilisation. However solar power consumes few resources in it's simplest forms and can be mass produced and used everywhere without worry while also working well for long term focused shit. Still we can do both as is feasible since reactors will need lots of fissile so they'll be an occasional thing while solar can be a more immediate solution.


Also OP, how easily could we replicate solar panels / the shit for our solar plants using non-fissile replicators?
>>
>>1785092
Sounds like a horrible place to raise a family
>>
>>1785080
Based on what we discussed in the last thread, we should really go mass solar at this point. Less hassle and more power straight away. Since nuclear, right now, is way too much trouble for way too little gain. Spam solar and we get more energy faster.
>>
>>1785095
Breeders only self sustain as long as someone is shovelling fertile materials in. So self sustaining in the same manner as coal generators.
>>
>>1785057
Look, he just said that we can generate a (tiny) amount of Fissile each turn with a small breeder reactor >>1784822
Which takes about half a year(Half of that if we get that 2nd Construction action)
QM also said that we need less energy to replace the Fissile requirement in replicators compared to using energy to make Fissile >>1783952
With this we can logically assume a Small Breeder reactor can generate more than a tiny amount of metal (Most likely low)
With those Low metals per turn income we can begin building more breeder reactors or Solar towers which will give us more metals per turn and at some point we reach critical mass and begin pumping out robots constantly.

Do you see why i believe it's important to get the reactor?
>>
>>1785092
>>>1785056
>The Legion were Brutal. And cruel.
I think you might've mislinked there.

>>1785106
>>1785095
The best route would be if we were able to secure a non-aggression treaty with the MLA while we then negotiated with the Legion in either diplomacy, gunboat diplomacy, or straight up grabbed Hoover Dam and other abandoned power generation facilities and started pumping shit out like no tomorrow.

Also I guess we're moving over that discussion to here now? It seems like it's starting to overlap.
>>
>>1785092
Eh, seems par for the course with raiders and such. To be honest the "cannibalism" ain't all that bad and the torture pits just makes sense given sadists exist and shit.

The only thing that pisses me off is that their city isn't even fucking clean. I mean I understand they probably are all too high to give a damn but have some pride in your hellhole dammit.

>>1785100
Except we've not had to do that for the Big Mt one and even if that were accurate I'd point out we can get nuclear waste from the NCR fairly cheaply and sell them back a portion of the fissile material we refine from it.

>>1785106
Except the problem is how much fissile material we need to create the reactors and shit in the first place. The actual raw material cost of producing them and getting their reaction started.
>>
>>1785116
The divide is full of fissile materials. We won't be wanting for a good while.
>>
>>1785116
For myself whos been in and out of the last couple of threads (work)

Assuming we dont build the nuclear reactor, what would your ideal plan be for the next 5 turns?
>>
>>1785116
>Except the problem is how much fissile material we need to create the reactors and shit in the first place.
When did that become a problem? Did QM post something about the reactor i missed?
>>
>>1785112
>straight up grabbed Hoover Dam and other abandoned power generation facilities and started pumping shit out like no tomorrow.
Well there are a fair few vaults in the NV area with functioning nuclear reactors / geothermal generators. So if we secure the region we can easily generate a large amount of power by linking them together and repairing them.

>>1785124
True but we shouldn't assume it is a endless source, even at our scale. We must begin planning for our next operation to secure yet more resources. Personally I would advise continuing through the Divide to NV and then securing that region if possible while linking to the various vaults / bunkers and such in the region by tunnelling.

>>1785130
He stated awhile back something about how much we'd need to generate the fissile alone for a breeder reactor but I can't remember the details too precisely.


The main point is that we would need a fair bit of the shit to get even a single one up.
>>
>>1785092
The place is also incredibly diverse, there are humans, supermutants, ghouls, and lots of other humanoid mutant species you've never seen before. Leather jacketed 80s gangers, skull and bone wearing fiends, and people of different tribes.

You even see some Deathclaws walking among the crowd, and talking. Intelligent deathclaws, and you wonder about Best Friend and his clan how they are.

--

Niner's palace looms up ahead, a veritable factory made fortress, with scavenged guns and turrets and cannons of every make and design hanging from its balconies and windows. You walk past more guards and gates of soldiers.
>>
Does anyone have the flag we made for our country?
>>
>>1785143
>He stated awhile back something about how much we'd need to generate the fissile alone for a breeder reactor but I can't remember the details too precisely.
I'd like to see the exact post please if you could.
>>
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>>1785148
>>
>>1785143
>Well there are a fair few vaults in the NV area with functioning nuclear reactors / geothermal generators. So if we secure the region we can easily generate a large amount of power by linking them together and repairing them.
Right.
Known power generators in the Mojave to my memory: Hoover Dam, Helios One, Vaults, cities like Ghoul City, and other abandoned places. We could probably take the Gun Runners' generators too if we wanted, since they make energy weapons and stuff.

>>1785126
>Assuming we dont build the nuclear reactor, what would your ideal plan be for the next 5 turns?
I'm not him, but I could offer one for becoming active on the inter-factional stage, since I think we've gone too far on the American isolationist end to be doing as much as we could.

>>1785143
>He stated awhile back something about how much we'd need to generate the fissile alone for a breeder reactor but I can't remember the details too precisely.
>>1785149
>>1784822
The QM answered this as a bonus of my quantity comparison question so we'd have a basis to work with for construction plans.
>>
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>>1785146


At last you come upon his great treasure room where stores the loot of his exploits. And boy is there a lot. Fancy weapons of every single make line the walls, including a few sets of Power Armor from the NCR, and even from the Brotherhood of Steel. There's even a new type of Power Armor you haven't seen before, clearly of Brotherhood make.

Stockpiles of Nuka Cola and foods, stuffed corpses of beasts and monsters, outfits of officers killed. Gallons upon Gallons of booze, beer, and wine.

Artworks, statues, swords, armor and artifacts clearly from museums in both the NCR and the Old World. Colorful silk and linen carpets, curtains, and clothing.

Tribal artifacts, god statues, and religious totems strewn around haphazardly.

Shiny knickknacks and bits and pieces of technology. NCR and Old World furniture and goodies.

And money. Bottlecaps, NCR dollars, Brotherhood of Steel Scrips, Old World Money, Legion Denarrii, and gold and jewelry galore.

A big NCR tank sits in the center of the room, along with a Broterhood of Steel motorbike, stolen modified and uparmed, his prize possession.

And thats only a small list of what this room is full of. You imagine its what you probably would have done had you decided to go on a raider spree across the wasteland.

And an evil looking statue watching over them all. An ugly thing that looks like an octopus or a hideously deformed wasteland monster, with a body of emerald and red jewels for eyes that almost seem to be glowing.
>>
>>1785169
Posted too soon and derped. I'll repost without the extra paste.
>>
>>1785171
">>1785157
>>1785029
>If we expand to Utah we could make use of the rivers there. Generating power from them as well as getting farming water would be a good idea.
Another anon mentioned this, so we could also make more water generators from the Utah or Mojave rivers. Possibly some stuff from Goodsprings, Newberry Springs, our underwater aquifers, and other secondary sources depending on what their water source is from.
Maybe we could make water generators integrated with nuclear generators to really combine the two aspects, like for Cold Fusion and as neato cheap coolant for the other reactors."
>>
>>1785169
You do realize any power we generate in Utah would only be in Utah, right? We can't transfer it to Big Mt, si we would also need to build all the infrastructure to use the power.
>>
>>1785174
You mean like power cables and stuff?
We could hook up replicators to them directly, or the power cables would be far easier than an entire new generator in our area.
Anyways, it wasn't just Utah, I mentioned some other stuff too.
>>
>>1785157
That post doesn't detail anything about the Breeder reactor's fissile requirements.
>>
>>1785177
Cables from Utah? We don't even have a stretch of land connecting us to Utah to build power lines on. Also at that point were using more resources than we would building some other power source in the mountain.
>>
>>1785126

>>1785126
>Assuming we dont build the nuclear reactor, what would your ideal plan be for the next 5 turns?
1) Establish a basic presence in Utah: a fusion battery / generator, a alien battery and teleport pad. To be used to support the creation of actual (subterranean) colonies in the Utah region to support additional population, industry, power and so on without using our Scout ship for transport. This would then be followed by the establishing of a small scale presence. Roughly 50 people and basic but small scale industry. This would then be followed by deploying a flight of scout drones to map out the region, locate sources of salvage and then reprocess these Utah side to support further expansion. Creation of a prospecting robot would be advised at this point to locate mineral deposits for extraction using local assets for processing.

During this period efforts would have been made to move our Brahmin herds to Utah, freeing up additional food and water supplies in New Washington for people / new arrivals / additional farming and such along with creating an opportunity to transport massive amounts of Jet (refined from the, now unrestricted in their growth, herd) to the Utah city of the MLA for trade for slaves, metal and fissile material to then allow additional expansion of the Utah side population and colonies.

Longer term plans would then see us start mass military robot production and deploy them against the local legion settlements to gain access to additional lands without risking much as well as getting much needed brains.

2) Perform tech trading with the BOS and deploying a few robots to the destroyed BOS chapter in Texas in an attempt to establish a presence in the region while bringing back additional technological samples and PA from the region for study, use and salvage. This effort would be reinforced by attempting to establish contact with the FO 3 BOS, to gain access to the technical documentation they have salvaged from the Commonwealth as well as reinforce the in-character reasons to risk going there. Especially since they will send another expedition soon or already be there.

3) Constant efforts to salvage the Divide, refining the resources into construction robots and electrical generation. Along with small scale trading with the MLA potentially.

4) Attempts to create new drugs that enhance the user's combat abilities for sale to the MLA since they'd stabalise the NCR front, get us cash / resources and let us advance our knowledge of human-biochemstry and shit.

5) An additional colony / presence project. Depending on if we can get the FO 3 / 4 BOS to agree: sending the Courier and a few robots to the Commonwealth, appropriating industry (there are steel mills and factories we could use) to establish a presence. May not be feasible or advisable but would grant an additional site for expansion with large amounts of resources and minimal interference.

>>1785173
That'd be me. Thanks for reminding me.
>>
>>1785188
That plan's flawed we should first build the reactor for metal gain then do all that stuff you wrote.
>>
>>1785188
I could see that working. Im still hesitant to trade with the MLA, but otherwise it seems pretty straight forward
>>
>>1785183
>Cables from Utah? We don't even have a stretch of land connecting us to Utah to build power lines on.
I don't have the map of our area so I wouldn't know. Doesn't mean we can't expand to that area.

>>1785183
>Also at that point were using more resources than we would building some other power source in the mountain.
Those were ideas, but the water generators in general are the 2nd most powerful option next to the nuclear ones, and presumably faster too.
>>1784683
All of our power options can be improved on, as Fallout Science efficiency was canonically shittier than meta Earth's science efficiency because they started out with more shit than us. Which is apparently why the Hoover Dam is still pretty powerful compared to our current nuclear reactors.

>>1785179
>>1783748
>>1782849
If you look at the thread, from what I can tell it just uses fissile materials to make more fissile materials. So any really, probably (tiny) for a decent amount then more is better.

>>1785194
That'd take a while, but it's still pretty good now that we have the Divide.

>>1785199
So long as we attach some strings and don't give anything important it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
>>
>>1785211
>If you look at the thread, from what I can tell it just uses fissile materials to make more fissile materials. So any really, probably (tiny) for a decent amount then more is better.
Yea, just a tiny amount, not a problem at all like >>1785116 was saying.
>>
>>1785211
>That'd take a while, but it's still pretty good now that we have the Divide.
I agree, which is why i first plan to finish the railway and get that second construction action.
>>
>>1785230
Actually, we might be able to hook into any remaining power plants that are left over in the military bases for a power boost. The terminals still work, so they have power.
>>
>>1785238
Huh?
>>
>>1785230
What are we making a railway to? Are both our railways going to have the hexcrete foundations someone suggested?

>>1785238
>>1785255
He's talking about the abandoned military bases, like the ones with the fusion research plans and all the pre-War shit the NCR is salvaging. Depends on how close they are, though.
>>
>>1785194
That is a waste of effort seeing as we wouldn't need as much power in New Washington once 50 people plus a complement of robots have left to Utah and most of our efforts would be redirected to Utah and such.

Also as I have stated so many times, no. A reactor takes a year assuming we only used one action but even if we invested all available labour into it it would still take too long for me.

>>1785199
The MLA are the only source of more population that isn't Legion loyalists, potential NCR spies or BOS human-supremacists. Plus we need the resources especially since setting up mining will take time and salvage is a fairly limited source.

>>1785211
>>1785225
That is the reactor's ability to produce more itself and I must point out that it can't make more fissile materials from nothing. Rather it can reprocess nuclear waste.

I was referring to a question that was proposed during one of the first threads when we got the Non-fissile replicator upgrade about how much power we'd need to produce the fissile to make a breeder reactor.
>>
>>1785259
>What are we making a railway to? Are both our railways going to have the hexcrete foundations someone suggested?
The Divide and they do currently.

>He's talking about the abandoned military bases, like the ones with the fusion research plans and all the pre-War shit the NCR is salvaging. Depends on how close they are, though.
He is talking about the ones in the Divide.
>>
>>1785267
Yes. The divide has a bunch if nuclear silos and other military infrastructure that still has power. Might as well use it.
>>
>>1785263
The objective isn't for energy itself, it's for the energy that we can convert into metal that we can use.
>>
>>1785272
Energy is energy. Take it from the divide or make it ourselves, we can use it all tgr same.
>>
>>1785278
I agree.
>>
>>1785267
>>1785271
Oh. The ones we were going to salvage for massive loot. Those, yeah.

Are we going to dismantle the nuclear stuff for power to then eventually make more military stuff instead of launching it at everyone?

>>1785263
>Rather it can reprocess nuclear waste.
>>1783748
>>1784683
Right. Which we can easily find in large amounts.

>>1783883
>>1785263
>Also as I have stated so many times, no. A reactor takes a year assuming we only used one action but even if we invested all available labour into it it would still take too long for me.
So about 10-15 turns to get all the reactor stuff for decent power generation if we just did it with the stuff we had. 5 if we just wanted to actively make tiny fissile materials each turn. He had the right idea but possibly the wrong order.
I'd say we expand our Solar Tower to tide over our needs for now, then divert the efforts we would have made for independently make the reactor and snatch up all the existing power infrastructure to then make our own power infrastructure.

>>1785278
>>1785281
I think he meant it so we could have our own power supply locally with fairly efficient results.
>>
>>1785288
>So about 10-15 turns to get all the reactor stuff for decent power generation if we just did it with the stuff we had. 5 if we just wanted to actively make tiny fissile materials each turn.
You forget, the energy from the reactor can also be used to make metals, which is my reason for wanting to build it.
>>
>>1785288
Well if we find any military reactors we can disassemble them and rebuild them if we want them closer to home. But we could also just build some maintenence drones, lay some cabling and get the power that way.
>>
>>1785308
Yeah, which is the same thing in terms of time.

>>1785314
Either works.
>>
>>1785317
>Yeah, which is the same thing in terms of time.
Well, actually it wasn't mentioned come to think of it.

>>1785056
>>1783883
>>1784822
Hey QM, for the same amount of power it'd take to make a (small) or (large) Breeder reactor for (tiny) or greater Fissile materials, how much could the power from those same Breeder reactors be used to convert really base shit like rocks, dirt, gravel, and sand into metal?
If it's too small, how big of a power generator would we need for (tiny) metal generation?
>>
>>1785288
Eh we'll play it by ear but the main point is that I want to focus on expansion, exploration and trade / development over building tall here in New Washington.


Especially since the NCR continues to expand, yet they won't contest our claims to land. So grabbing it before they reach it is a important goal.
>>
>>1785327
>Eh we'll play it by ear but the main point is that I want to focus on expansion, exploration and trade / development over building tall here in New Washington.
Yeah. Which is what I meant. We still need a Solar Tower at least to fulfill our local needs while we snatch up the foreign power generators.

>>1785327
>Especially since the NCR continues to expand, yet they won't contest our claims to land. So grabbing it before they reach it is a important goal.
Are we going to pull an Italy?
>>
>>1785263
>The MLA are the only source of more population that isn't Legion loyalists, potential NCR spies or BOS human-supremacists. Plus we need the resources especially since setting up mining will take time and salvage is a fairly limited source.
So instead we take druggie/cannibal/cultist people? Nice try.

>>1785211
>All of our power options can be improved on, as Fallout Science efficiency was canonically shittier than meta Earth's science efficiency because they started out with more shit than us. Which is apparently why the Hoover Dam is still pretty powerful compared to our current nuclear reactors.
This is the worst excuse ever. This is something QM said and something that makes no goddam sense. If you invest in power production, you want to have better performance for your material. Especially seeing the price of gas in pre-war times (literally thousands of dollars per gallon) and the fact that the need for resources was the reason it all went to hell in a handbasket. That they are not as efficient as ours at 2017, fine, maybe I can believe that. That they are shit-tier compared to hydro in 2077? No way, hose. With the added need for weapons-grade material and scarcity of nuclear fuel they would have optimized the system to hell and back. And I dont think abundance of materials was a thing, seeing as microfusion was there, just not quite large-scale yet (think Mass Fusion and the excited CEO of the company, as bad as F4 lore is).
>>
>>1785331
From the forecaster's vision, it seems the NCR is not interested in finishing of the legion, probably keep the enemy around for propoganda purposes. Which gives us time to handle internal affairs and build up so we can take territory.
>>
>>1785340
While the Bull, can't defeat the NCR, it's slowly being killed off. But it's going to take time for it to collapse. Like 10 years or so
>>
>>1785347
NCR is prolonging it intenruonally. Bleeding the bull, but bot killing it. While they waste time on that we can build up so we can take our pounds of flesh.
>>
>>1785336
>So instead we take druggie/cannibal/cultist people? Nice try.
If you actually read the post I was responding to and the post he was in turn responding to, you'd understand that entire exchange referred to trading Jet for slaves and metal.

>Are we going to pull an Italy?
Too small fry, we are talking the British empire in Africa levels of sprawling and shit.
>>
>>1785336
>This is the worst excuse ever. This is something QM said and something that makes no goddam sense.
Going with what the QM said mate, that's just what the rules he set are for this universe.
>Especially seeing the price of gas in pre-war times (literally thousands of dollars per gallon) and the fact that the need for resources was the reason it all went to hell in a handbasket.
To be fair it ended up like that because the pre-War nations were being decadently wasteful dicks to each other.

>That they are not as efficient as ours at 2017, fine, maybe I can believe that. That they are shit-tier compared to hydro in 2077? No way, hose.
When did they decide to switch over to nuclear power is an important thing though, because they didn't really go for alternative power sources until it was too late. By then it might've fucked up any chances they had with doing things properly.

>No way, hose. With the added need for weapons-grade material and scarcity of nuclear fuel they would have optimized the system to hell and back.
Apparently from from this universe they just shoveled more nuclear fuel and other shit to make shit happen and hoped it'd work.
>And I dont think abundance of materials was a thing, seeing as microfusion was there, just not quite large-scale yet (think Mass Fusion and the excited CEO of the company, as bad as F4 lore is).
It was there, but not enough to sustain the world's needs and keep them from being paranoid dicks to each other. Remember that they had it but kept it secret or selective between each other and other bullshit because reasons.

To be honest the real thing that fucked everyone over was the unmarked nuclear missile that went off to my memory and caused pandemonium.
>>
>>1785358
Eh. I'm of the opinion we should build tall, not wide. We just got some new resources, i say use them to improve the city we already have, rather than try to establish more elsewhere.
>>
>>1785369
Building tall is good when you've not got a nice easy expansion right next door.

Plus, we can't really afford to build taller in our current lands for much longer so we must expand. Especially if we want to make use of conventional industry in some parts of our society.
>>
>>1785389
Can't afford how? We have building material in hexacrete and metal, we have the labour. All we need to do is comit the time.
>>
>>1785358
And I am saying that the slaves we get from the MLA are in no way better in quality. Seeing as they enslaved the Marked Men i bet there are many cannibal tribes, indebted junkies and disfavored cultists in the slave pens. And I dont know how you intend to filter them out. Not to mention that likely every slave is somehow mentally and physically scarred for life.

>>1785369
I agree. Although I see the point with Utah. Seems like the endgame is fast approaching, as every major power now has ungodly amounts of bonuses going for them (NCR literal Blitzkrieg they had to slow down because it was too effective, MLA living underground and having literal fortresses with mazes of tunnels you can only navigate with voodo magick, BoS going drone fleet on the MLA so they have to stay underground or get blown up instantly, and so on). So I would like to support a landgrab in Utah but I want to secure the Divide first. See if we cant safely loot all the nukes, reactors and whatever else we can. Not leaving those in the hands of the MLA. And also getting the power problem solved in the home front so we can print robots without worry.

I do agree we have to liberally spam the Courier at quests though. While we get royally shafted at infrastructure, the hero quests make up for it. Strange that, with all the might and mind of BigMT, a lunatic package delivery man is the best hope if you want to build a computer.
>>
>>1785408
>Strange that, with all the might and mind of BigMT, a lunatic package delivery man is the best hope if you want to build a computer.
You have to understand, the Courier has the backing of meta voices from another universe that wasn't torn apart in nuclear fallout and mostly have common sense compared to everyone else pre-Quest.
Also apparently adventuring makes you godlike in all areas, maybe from the FEV and stuff.
>>
>>1785394
We will struggle to support more population both in terms of water for their own consumption and more importantly in terms of farming.

>>1785408
I'd point out to you we have purchased a multitude of slaves from the MLA and they have done excellently well. You are creating issues where none exist.
>>
>>1785362
>To be honest the real thing that fucked everyone over was the unmarked nuclear missile that went off to my memory and caused pandemonium.
Looking at the actual timeline, it wasn't unmarked, it's just that nobody confirmed who dun' did it first and everyone was a dickish paranoiac enough to launch nukes at first sight.
>>
>>1785429
I don't think we connected to the river yet, nor finished the underground farms. There is still possible growth here. Then we can build up Newberry and Trona.

We bought 3 slaves from the MLA, and they have been unnoteworthy.
>>
>>1785429
>>1785443
And the one slave we got from the Legion seems fine as well. The point is that MLA is not in any way special. I would argue going Legion would get us better brains to harvest, if we want citizens who are loyal yet useful, lets find the followers remnants who are supposedly somewhere out there.
>>
>>1785443
>I don't think we connected to the river yet, nor finished the underground farms. There is still possible growth here. Then we can build up Newberry and Trona.
Yes there is but for all the effort it takes to do that we could expand far more in other places like Utah.

>We bought 3 slaves from the MLA, and they have been unnoteworthy.
Exactly. Not noteworthy. Not a fucking waste of time and money and drug addicted cultists like you'd implied that they would all be but rather just as productive as any of our other citizens with no more or less problems or needs that have been presented to us.
>>
>>1785450
What about the BoS Mojave possible Remnants? We never bothered to check up on them.
>>
>>1785455
We don't know where they are. They disappeared from their bunker.
>>
back, just ate, writing
>>
>>1785336
>So instead we take druggie/cannibal/cultist people? Nice try.
>>1785454
>Exactly. Not noteworthy. Not a fucking waste of time and money and drug addicted cultists like you'd implied that they would all be but rather just as productive as any of our other citizens with no more or less problems or needs that have been presented to us.
Wrong guy, m8.

>>1785458
Couldn't we well, ask the Midwest Brotherhood for what a fleeing Brotherhood chapter would do?
>>
>>1785461
We sort of asked the mid west, but they didn't have any clue.
>>
>>1785450
>The point is that MLA is not in any way special.
They are a nearby source of population and resources that won't strengthen the NCR and that isn't the Legion. To be frank that is special and trade with them works well with expanding into Utah.

>I would argue going Legion would get us better brains to harvest
What do you mean by "going Legion"? And I would point out that is a part of my plan.

>if we want citizens who are loyal yet useful, lets find the followers remnants who are supposedly somewhere out there.
Probably dead, in hiding or enslaved by the NCR. Waste of effort.

>>1785461
>Wrong guy, m8.
My mistake. Point still stands.
>>
>>1785469
If they are in hiding we could offer them safety and they would come. So they aren't locked away from us forever.
>>
>>1785469
>They are a nearby source of population and resources that won't strengthen the NCR and that isn't the Legion. To be frank that is special and trade with them works well with expanding into Utah.
True. Wouldn't it be more cost-effective and efficient to go the broadcasting immigration route though? Didn't we get like, 50 immigrants that one time we broadcasted of which I think 10-23 died from walking all the way here and through the Divide storms? Compared to the I think 6 slaves we bought from the MLA and Legion which seemed expensive.
We could make another broadcast, modify the abduction system to not kill them, then include some party-size transportation units like Trucker Tim's Truck and tell them to get the fuck inside it if they see it. We'll handle the immigration stuff once they find us.

>My mistake. Point still stands.
>>1785443
>>1785450
Yeah. It was still the same thing the actual guy said.
>>
>>1785477
Build some drones to watch for refugees at the border, drive the party bus out to pick them up if they are spotted.
>>
>>1785475
>>1785477
Both valid points. Also I dont think QM would have mentioned them if it was a dead end. And the abduction way of getting citizens was outlined earlier. Get the same systems that abduct people grab them from the desert and bring them to a secure location where we determine if they are a spy/hazard or not. If clear, they join an outpost, for starters. If no good, we pick the brain and make a new TACT bot.
>>
>>1785488
>>1785489
Yeah, those were stuff some other anons mentioned earlier that I forgot to accredit.

Some anons and the QM also discussed having passive administration done by people while will manage it for us and give us some bonuses when we aren't doing it ourselves. We should start organizing that with our companions and special people and stuff. Maybe get Trucker Tim's input on how to manage transportation and logistics.
>>
>>1785459
QM, would this >>1785489 be doable without a dedicated action turn spent? Have the program altered slightly so it doesnt immediately debrain, just transport. Have SPI/Bond supervise and improve along the way.
>>
>>1785475
That'd take resources and time we don't have to get a few dozen people at most. Especially given we would need to send people into the NCR to find them which we would struggle to do since the NCR haven't found them either.

>>1785477
>True. Wouldn't it be more cost-effective and efficient to go the broadcasting immigration route though?
True but we can do both seeing as Jet is effectively a byproduct of an industry which we would struggle to use otherwise.

>Didn't we get like, 50 immigrants that one time we broadcasted
Correct

>of which I think 10-23 died from walking all the way here and through the Divide storms?
They died of the heat, the wildlife and other such general hazards. Not Divide storms.

I did suggest creating a road to a NCR town and having a monthly bus / truck go and pick up anyone who wants to join us.

>Compared to the I think 6 slaves we bought from the MLA and Legion which seemed expensive.
We got that few slaves because those were the only well educated slaves that MLA slaver had on offer (we've specifically asked for more and he has started looking for us, we should check in) and the Legion didn't allow us to more than two and the rest weren't that useful.
>>
At the end of the treasure room is an archway from which spills forth a colorful cloud of thick, colorful smoke and music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCkHanF4v1w

The cloud seems to have a movement of its own, dancing and billowing upward, as though it were alive. There are leaves floating atop them, real green and colorful leaves lifted up by the breeze, and the whole room is illuminated with a writhing glow like a cave of water with a lamp thrown at the bottom. Even from this distance you sense an intoxicating smell, almost sickly sweet, like burnt spices. Your skin tingles in a good, exciting way that wants you to rush headlong into it, while remain exactly where you are, as your heart dances to the beat.

The familiar twinge of the electric guitar music, made soft and mellow and the voice of singing and drums echos from the cavern of lights and colors.

---

Do you want to put on your gas mask before you enter?
>>
>>1785511
>Do you want to put on your gas mask before you enter?
If we don't, do we get to bang women?
>>
>>1785511
Put on our best armor against gas/rad, since I think it can go through the skin
>>
>>1785513
This. We should've brought our hazard armour.
>>
>>1785511
yes
>>
>>1785511
>>1785513
Armor up.
>>
>>1785512
>>1785513
More seriously, yeah. First thing we do is get as much protection as possible just in case.
>>
>>1784694
>>1777743
>>>>>>A. Scavenge (for what)
>>>>>>B. Try to improve (which) base
>>>>>>C. Try to improve weapons (where).
>>>>>>D. Research technology.
>>>>>>E. Explore in a direction/something.
>>>>>>F. Scavenge for raw materials (where/what)
>>>>>>G. Your choice/Write in
>>>>>>Turn: 113
Hey QM, you may want to revise the turn prompt suggestions into the number and types of actions we have available. I think that'd save on more space and be more helpful for future turn orders. Especially since we've outpaced the original 2-3 actions per turn.
>>
>>1785505
The followers can smuggle themselves to us. Once at the border they are ours.

And we get a few dozen more trained scientists, which is always good.
>>
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>>1785512
You don't know if you invented it, but you're pretty sure you've perfected the 'Power Armored Smash'

>>1785513
>>1785520
>>1785521
You suit up, for a non caustic gas, a good old fashioned radsuit will work.

You find yourself in some kind of big pleasure den. The floor is covered in pillow, plushes, and mattresses. Slave women of every skin color and raider officers both human and non-human lie in recline, or furiously engaged in coitus, as a band plays to the side idly. Some familiar faces meet your eyes, 'Vincent-Vincent,' 'Motherfucker' the Super Mutant, Cook-Cook the Fiend, and others too. All seem to pay you no attention and are focused on whatever it is they are doing, if they are doing anything.

The center of the room is a great incense pit before a golden statue of that ugly thing again, where bubbles a mix of glowing chemicals with little crystals that shine like stars and rainbows. You swear you see the ruby eyes of the statue glowing again.

The floor is littered with used rubbers, syringes, bottles and trash which is being picked up and scooped by slaves wearing masks.

At the very end of this room, on a throne of skulls, guns, and gold. There is also what looks like two doghouses to the side, but big and with thick steaks in front of them. Must be some huge dogs

Sitting on the is a man. Women in the nude lie sleeping or mewling at his feet, and you recognize two of them as Cyan the Raider, Mellissa the Great Khan.

The man, like the rest of the human raiders in the room, is beefed up to hell and back, like the supersoldiers you and the NCR deploy. Only he's built far above them. He's almost size of Marcus now, only without the ugly deformation. A thick beard and mustache covers his face, in the style of the 80s, and wears a Yao-Gui pelt on his back. NCR and Brotherhood of Steel Medals line his chest, and a skull with an NCR Ranger Cap is his codpiece.

You're trying to recognize who the man is, and apparently, he is trying to recognize who you are..

>Man on the Throne
"Oi. You some kind of new slave? What the fuck are you staring at?"

>You
[Are you Niner?]

>Man on Throne
"That's WARLORD Niner to you. Fuck you're some dumb as slave. You better be a pretty bitch underneath that or I'll give you to the cult.

>You
[You don't recognize me?]

>Man on Throne
"Hang on a twitch. That voice, so familiar.

Who the hell are you?"

>You
[It's me. Courier Six.]
>>
>>1785580
>"Hang on a twitch. That voice, so familiar.
>[It's me. Courier Six.]
Curious, what does our voice sound like? Does everyone hear a bracket of sorts with our speech, or is that for style?
>>
>>1785568
This. It's not as useful anymore.

>>1785571
The problem is that they aren't going to abandon their cover to come to us for the most part and that'd require we got the information to them somehow. Seriously it's not like they are in radio range.
>>
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>>1785611
Your voice is muffled by the gas mask, also of course you speak in Brackets. Even the Forecaster knows it.
>>
>>1785580
>You don't know if you invented it, but you're pretty sure you've perfected the 'Power Armored Smash'

>>1785616
>[Desire to learn more intensifies.]
>>
>>1785580
>Niner
"Six?

. . .wait.

Fucking Six? Is that you?

Well that's a fret. Shit man, I haven't seen you since we left the goddamn Mojave two lifetimes ago.

Cyan, Mellisa, look Six is here!"

He nudges them with his foot, but they do nothing.

"Oh don't mind them, they're just wrecked. Little too much fun for the girls sometimes. Ain't got the stamina that 'Bitch' has over there. Now she's a real animal.

I'm dragging. Six, my fucking man, what are you doing here? Aw this is great, I gotta host a feast or something we need to catch up."

>What say?
>>
>>1785638
Buisness first. Here's some jet. Its a gift.

Now take your people out of the Divide.
>>
>>1785646
Supporting this. The Divide is our territory.
>>
>>1785638
"Nice to see you man but I'm here on business."


>>1785646
>>1785647
Don't be idiots. That'll fuck this shit up and doesn't even benefit us.
>>
>>1785646
I also support this
>>
>>1785652
Support. We come bearing gifts because Niner's a cool guy and all.
Also ask what that gas is.
>>
>>1785646
"Oi, what. . .OH.

You mean our operations there? Man, you have any idea how long and how many slaves it took to dig a tunnel right underneath the divide?

When I heard you was there and fighting the Marked Men I asked my witch to do you a favor and give it to you. Though we could share the divide. You get the top and all the resources and goods, I use the bottom to mass my dudes for a big mechanized attack just like the NCR.

We're allied against the NCR right? I mean, last I remember you hated their guts."
>>
>>1785664
>You mean our operations there?
"Yes."
>Man, you have any idea how long and how many slaves it took to dig a tunnel right underneath the divide?
"We have an idea. It's pretty annoying when we tried. How'd you manage?"

>When I heard you was there and fighting the Marked Men I asked my witch to do you a favor and give it to you.
"Thanks for trying to do us a solid. What'd she say?"

>Though we could share the divide. You get the top and all the resources and goods, I use the bottom to mass my dudes for a big mechanized attack just like the NCR.
>You get the top and all the resources and goods, I use the bottom to mass my dudes for a big mechanized attack just like the NCR.
"So you're saying that we get the top, you get the bottom?"
"More seriously, we'd like to consider that, but first we have to make sure doing so won't interfere with our operations in case the NCR comes knocking."

>We're allied against the NCR right? I mean, last I remember you hated their guts."
"We'd be allied against a lot of people, like the NCR, but we'd rather not have to deal with them on our asses. So we're more like contracted mercenaries anytime we're not fighting alone."
"Sorry about any earlier fights our forces might've gotten into. We were contracted without knowing who you were or what we were fighting at the time, or told much of anything really. Turns out that sort of bullshit sucks."
>>
>>1785664
Thr marked men were losing, and you decided they were worth more as sacrifices than dieing at my hands. It wasn't a favour from you to me.

I dislike the NCR, but i also don't want to bring them down upon my people, so if your attacking the NCR, do it somewhere that usn't my land.
>>
>>1785664
"Look so long as your guys don't touch any of the salvage or pre-war bases in the region I guess you can keep your tunnels and shit.

I'd point out, by-the-by, that my people have designs for advanced tunnelling robots that could probably do the job of your slaves quicker, safer and cheaper. We could see about renting a few of these for out to you for materials and slaves but these are things to consider later.


For now I am here to offer an immediate trade of high quality Jet and potentially other drugs or other shit depending on what you can offer and how easily we can set up production.


As to being allied against the NCR, currently my people and the NCR ain't at war but that has more to do with them being so god damn terrifyingly well armed and shit than any sorts of warm feelings towards them. So we are standing on the side lines and it is terrifying to watch them fuck the Legion up the ass.


Still if you want you could come visit sometime, we can have some good fun with some of our prototype weapons and I can have you meet my children and shit. Plus a pre-war ghoul singer and a few AI's."
>>
>>1785703
I like everything here except for saying that we've fought against him.

"They're big and scary so we're at peace with them for now, but we hate them too."
>>
>>1785703
>"Sorry about any earlier fights our forces might've gotten into. We were contracted without knowing who you were or what we were fighting at the time, or told much of anything really. Turns out that sort of bullshit sucks."
>>1785718
Yeah. I was thinking of leaving that out until he mentions it. So let's exclude that for now and use that as our response.
>>
>>1785703
So supporting everything up to the question about being allied to the NCR.
Supporting >>1785717 too.
>>
>>1785703
Ill support the first three.
>>
>>1785717
Supporting this

>>1785703
Supporting this, but not the part about allied against the NCR bit
>>
>>1785703
>>1785728
>>1785729
>>1785733
>>1785762
Reworking the last statement.
>>1785703
>We're allied against the NCR right? I mean, last I remember you hated their guts."
"Right now we're leaving everyone be so they leave us be until the situation changes. We don't like many of the factions around, but it's easier for us this way."
"So we'd be contractors anytime we decide to involve ourselves elsewhere. You might be able to contract us, depending on the circumstances. We offer some sweet services."

"What's your stance on the Legion and other factions?"
"If you've seen our stuff or people before, what do you think of them?"
>>
>>1785717
If we're going to betray the MLA eventually, why would we let them establish a base within spitting distance. Of our capital? Thats just strategically dumb.
>>
>>1785703
>"We have an idea. It's pretty annoying when we tried. How'd you manage?"
The Cult Helped. See, you had always told me about these tunneler things right? Little nasty monsters but good at digging. Well, the Cult send over some of their Beastmasters there and what do you know it there were also Ghouls too! They had been fighting someone off and needed a hand, so they we made a deal. They helped us we help them. They guided the beast wizes and helped em capture a queen. So now we got a whole flock of tunnelers to help with the digging. Just gotta feed em. Brahmin and gecko works, human is better. Then it was just getting enough slaves and a rig up a couple of digging machines from some smashed Brotherhood and NCR bits and voila! A nice big tunnel. Course a couple hundred slaves died but eh, we recycled them."

>"So you're saying that we get the top, you get the bottom?"
"Hah. There's the six I remember. You still into pretty babes right? I got plenty right here. I'm sure you remember Mellisa and Cyan, but you ain't seen nothing till you met 'Bitch'. She's my pet on loan from the cult."

>"More seriously, we'd like to consider that, but first we have to make sure doing so won't interfere with our operations in case the NCR comes knocking."
"Hah. NCR don't even know we're there I bet. Even if they do, what are they gonna do eh? They've avoided the Divide like a plague. We're gonna build a big enough army, wait for a clear enough day, and march right out of there to fuck them in the ass!"

>"We'd be allied against a lot of people, like the NCR, but we'd rather not have to deal with them on our asses. So we're more like contracted mercenaries anytime we're not fighting alone."
"Whatever you say mate. We're trying to be all quiet about this thing too. Can't have the NCR figure out we're doing this. Got the witches to help."

>"Sorry about any earlier fights our forces might've gotten into."
"Hah You know that wasn't even me. Boy, Warlord Bishop is going to be mad as hell when they figured out my bud Six was the creator of those robots that fucked him up at Flooded City.

Don't worry about it mate. It's all water under the bridge now, ha!

Robots eh? Well, I suppose that makes sense, you did leave with House's whole bloody army. Now that was some serious looting skill.

Could really use you on the Eastern Front against the brotherhood. Wait till they get a load of machines to fight their own!"
>>
>>1785768
I can dig it.
>>
>>1785789
They avoid the divide because its worthless. If the MLA operates from the divide it becomes strategically worthwhile to kick them out. Do you anons see how this gets us in hot water with the NCR? We're letting rats infest our home so they can infest our neighbour.
This is terrible deal.
>>
>>1785768
>>1785790
>>1785789
RIP.
fack. On the bright side, now we know the MLA isn't as unified as we might've thought.
>>
>>1785772
Ignoring the fact that we can't displace them even if we wanted to, it's better to have a vague knowledge of the end of their tunnel network in the region being there since that is where they surface from so we can fuck them all the harder by destroying it later.

Also I'd point out that our capital is still a fair distance away, more than a days travel I believe. Given a few layers of defences or our army (now or when we expand it) fighting them? They'd be fucked to get close.


Also this weakens the NCR which works fine by me since the MLA ain't going to try and hold land without reason so we can sweep in afterwards and secure the ransacked settlements and such for ourselves. If the NCR question it we explain that we secured them from the MLA or something.
>>
>>1785717
>"Look so long as your guys don't touch any of the salvage or pre-war bases in the region I guess you can keep your tunnels and shit."
"Deal. You take it. I don't wanna touch that shit. Could explode at any moment or release some nasty robots. Got enough of that with the damn Brotherhood."

>I'd point out, by-the-by, that my people have designs for advanced tunnelling robots that could probably do the job of your slaves quicker, safer and cheaper.
>We could see about renting a few of these for out to you for materials and slaves but these are things to consider later.
>For now I am here to offer an immediate trade of high quality Jet and potentially other drugs or other shit depending on what you can offer and how easily we can set up production.
"Shit man, it must be my lucky day. Course we have some slaves to trade for machines and good shit.

But I tell you Jet is old school. The Cult can brew up some real fucking good ass shit. Would love to see you put that big tree growing brain of yours with them together."

>As to being allied against the NCR, currently my people and the NCR ain't at war but that has more to do with them being so god damn terrifyingly well armed and shit than any sorts of warm feelings towards them. So we are standing on the side lines and it is terrifying to watch them fuck the Legion up the ass.
"Ain't it? See, that's what we do all our shit underground. Can't bomb us down here! And we can make it real painful for em in our tunnels what with the cult helping us.

We try to do our part. Hit em from the side, pull away before they can bomb us. Gotta do it like clockwork cause the moment they know where you are the bombers start flying."

>Still if you want you could come visit sometime, we can have some good fun with some of our prototype weapons and I can have you meet my children and shit.
>Plus a pre-war ghoul singer and a few AI's
"Aw that's great! When I'm not busy I gotta go there. You don't mind if I bring along a few of the old gang and some of the new right? I'll even bring the food and booze.

Got some little Six's running around eh? Heh, maybe I bring some of my kids too. Cyan and Mellissa gave me sons each, and I got one growing in Bitch's belly too."
>>
>>1785772
>>1785789
>>1785810
From what it looks like, the MLA is going to try pulling a NCR and pull a massive counteroffensive.
So until that point happens, the NCR won't be able to detect them, or if they would they'd probably have done something while we were busy fighting at the Divide.

I think we should allow them to build up forces around here, so long as they don't directly launch forces from where we're at.
>>1785816
>>1785818
>>1785789
We should have them inform us and have discussions about the MLA network underneath the Divide and when they try launching offensives from it and stuffc.

>>1785818
>"Aw that's great! When I'm not busy I gotta go there. You don't mind if I bring along a few of the old gang and some of the new right? I'll even bring the food and booze.
>Got some little Six's running around eh? Heh, maybe I bring some of my kids too. Cyan and Mellissa gave me sons each, and I got one growing in Bitch's belly too."
I feel like this might become tragic.
>>
>>1785816
Yeah, but tunnels to the NCR go west, pass the capital. When we finally try to put down the MLA, they would be in a perfect place to attack us.

Were bitching out and you guys are arguing "it hurts the NCR" despite the fact it will hurt us even more.
>>
>>1785810
>They avoid the divide because its worthless.
More so because it is a irradiated hellhole that they'd struggle to explore, let alone fight or have a siege in.

>If the MLA operates from the divide it becomes strategically worthwhile to kick them out.
It can be worthwhile all they like but they still need a way of doing it which they lack.

>Do you anons see how this gets us in hot water with the NCR?
Not really. Seeing as they have no reason to think we'd work with the MLA.

>We're letting rats infest our home so they can infest our neighbour.
That is a terrible metaphor.
>>
>>1785810
I'm aware. Its a shit Situation.
>>
gonna brb in a few hours, will try to continue dialoge on my phone, keep talknig as long as you need to
>>
>>1785826
>>We're letting rats infest our home so they can infest our neighbour.
>That is a terrible metaphor.
REMOVE RATS FROM OUR SHITTY NEIGHBORS!
>>
>>1785826
Yeah,. because letting the MLA build up in our territory can't possibly go wrong.
>>
>>1785823
Agreed.

Potential solution: region we are in experiences minor seismic activity on a "regular" basis which could most likely be detected. Seismic sensors could be used to detect presence of tunnels or caverns within certain regions, thanks to the effect is has on the waves as they travel through the earth. Would allow for certainty of the size of their networks but would take time to gather data and computing power similar to a radar array to process it.

>>1785824
>Yeah, but tunnels to the NCR go west, pass the capital.
Except there are no tunnels to the west, only towards their land as far as we know and that would be towards Utah most likely: to the north-east roughly.

>When we finally try to put down the MLA, they would be in a perfect place to attack us.
So we position our assets to eliminate the tunnels before that can occur by collapsing them or flooding them with poisonous gas or water or something. Not exactly hard

>Were bitching out and you guys are arguing "it hurts the NCR" despite the fact it will hurt us even more.
Only if we are unprepared when we declare war and I'd point out it only hurts us because you plan on betraying the MLA rather than maintaining neutrality long term and allowing them to die to the BOS or to internal struggles while we expand.
>>
>>1785849
They're all under one banner of the dark god. They are not going to fall to internal struggles.

The brotherhood doesn't seem to be winning, especially since we're helping them attack the NCR. And they will build up tunnels to go west. Why would they not build more tunnels.
>>
>>1785830
I'm confused as to what you mean by this post.

>>1785835
Never said that but I would point out that more or less everything could go wrong or backfire. This is just you redirecting discussion rather than providing a counter to my arguments. Even then I must point out that the chances of this resulting in major damage long term is incredibly unlikely. Seeing as we have many different ideas as to how to deal with subterranean enemies and could smuggle a nuke into their tunnels or underground to collapse them if those fail.

Plus your plan of getting them to leave essentially revolves around asking them to and I fail to see that working which leaves only military force which results in our death.
>>
>>1785876
>They're all under one banner of the dark god. They are not going to fall to internal struggles.
Kind of. We should ask them that. It's not like a dark god doesn't allow strife between his dark disciples.

>>1785849
>Potential solution: region we are in experiences minor seismic activity on a "regular" basis which could most likely be detected. Seismic sensors could be used to detect presence of tunnels or caverns within certain regions, thanks to the effect is has on the waves as they travel through the earth. Would allow for certainty of the size of their networks but would take time to gather data and computing power similar to a radar array to process it.
I remember some anons briefly discussing this, this'd be a clever way to resolve the tunnels issue. We should get on that.

>>1785890
>I'm confused as to what you mean by this post.
I was joking to continue the metaphor. Maybe I should've spoilered it instead.
>>
>>1785876
>They're all under one banner of the dark god. They are not going to fall to internal struggles.
Yet Niner doesn't get angry at us killing the followers / warriors of another Warlord.

>The brotherhood doesn't seem to be winning
They are constantly gaining is my understanding which is why the MLA is pushing into the NCR: the salvage, slaves and space allows them to hold the line against the BOS while also putting valuable ground between them and robotic death.

>especially since we're helping them attack the NCR.
Less so helping, more so not interfering.

>And they will build up tunnels to go west. Why would they not build more tunnels.
That is a different point entirely and could be resolved by requiring they keep their tunnels out from under our actual lands. Maybe explaining we need that space for our own shit.
>>
>>1785890
Ask them to leave, and if they don't fight them. Remove them before they become too big to handle.

Will all the new tech they have you think they can't mitigate the Divide's weather? We did.

Again, they have all sorts of fancy tech. THey surely have a solution to MLA tunnel networks.

MLA is in our territory. We're either complacent, or incompetent, both means they would put their fist down.
>>
>>1785901
Doesn't mean they would turn on each other. Especially as the Dark God gets their loyalty more and more.

The Brotherhood is causing problems, but not wrecking face any more than the NCR. They're just focusing on other things.

We're quartering them in our territory. That's helping.

They would get as close as they can. They would position themselves advantageously.
>>
>>1785896
>I was joking to continue the metaphor. Maybe I should've spoilered it instead.
Nah I'm just tired as shit.

>>1785902
>Ask them to leave, and if they don't fight them.
They won't and we'd lose.

>Remove them before they become too big to handle.
Don't know if anyone has told you this yet but too fucking late to stop this shit. The MLA is set up, has troops in the region and ain't moving.

>Again, they have all sorts of fancy tech. THey surely have a solution to MLA tunnel networks.
If they did then the MLA wouldn't still be relying on them to survive now would they?

>MLA is in our territory. We're either complacent, or incompetent, both means they would put their fist down.
As I have said so many times: it ain't our land, they can't do shit regarding the Divide (and don't know what we can do there either so for all they know we can't either, ergo we can't stop the MLA) and even if they could, they'd be busy dealing with the MLA's raids and shit.

>>1785908
>Doesn't mean they would turn on each other. Especially as the Dark God gets their loyalty more and more.
Raiders are raiders. They'll do as raiders do. Also you are making assumptions just as much as I am.

>The Brotherhood is causing problems, but not wrecking face any more than the NCR. They're just focusing on other things.
Which means that if the BOS actually focused, they would win the war far quicker but they have greater concerns. So they will in due time.

>We're quartering them in our territory. That's helping.
No, it's not our land and we couldn't beat them back even if we wanted to.

>They would get as close as they can.
Then claim a border further away numb-nuts.

>They would position themselves advantageously.
Then expect them to do that and work under that assumption.
>>
>>1785925
You keep saying the Divide isn't our land, but as far as the NCR is concerned from the border treaty we signed it is. We are responsible for anything and everything inside of it. Including the MLA.

If they use the Divide as a spring board to attack the NCR it will draw them to us. Not the Divide, Us. They may not have the tech to attack the divide safely, but they sure as shit do to attack us in Big MT.
>>
>>1785925
We would lose harder if we let them build up more.

We were just fighting against the marked men, we can take whatever they currently have in the region and push them out.

Better than frontal assaults. Just because it can be mitigated doesn't mean it isn't the best option.

We claimed the DIvide, and they respect that because they have no reason not to. If the MLA operates there, then the NCR will come for it. You think dealing with the raids means not going at the rading base camp? You want the NCR to find the Nukes?

I'm assuming the dark god would keep everyone in line pretty much. Not large scale civil wars, just personal conflicts

BOS has no other enemies. they are completely focused on the MLA

We claimed it, and we can beat them back.

Why let them build at all? numb-nuts
>>
Ok first off:
- We recommend him someplace else to attack from somewhere that doesn't lead them back to us.
- We tell him about the NCR spy drones and as such stress the importance of staying underground. (we can have seismic detectors for future protection from underground attacks.)
- We ask him who Bitch is.
- Ask about how unified the MLA is.

>>1785908
Please understand that they are underground so we have plausible deniability. We can just claim that we were unaware. In fact I would say that the NCR would be further convinced of our innocence by the fact that we dealt them a huge blow at the city that we fought at.
>>
>>1785944
Ignorance is no excuse for incompetence. If we can't keep our territory free of enemies of the NCR, they would do it for us.
>>
>>1785960
I feel that they would see us as a liability more than a potential ally and work on Annexing us.
>>
>>1785972
Exactly. Why are we giving them an excuse?
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>>1785944
>- We recommend him someplace else to attack from somewhere that doesn't lead them back to us
"Divide seems like as good a place as ever. Right south if all the heaviest fighting. Legion won't attack us. Well smash the NCRs spearhead in between them and the Legion.

What do you suggest six?"
>>
>>1785944
>- We tell him about the NCR spy drones and as such stress the importance of staying underground.
"Invisible spy drones.

Well that fucking explains it. Damn I knew they were spotting us somehow.

Hmmm, wonder if I could try and get some better radar vans. Maybe more AA trucks. Four barreled ones like the NCR uses. Yeah."
>>
>>1786010
Head north and burn down the miracle forest that gives the NCR tge majority of their fuel for everything they do.
>>
>>1786010
Do it under the main legion front While the NCR is fighting the Legion, You can pop up behind them and cut their supplies off, and have them overrun by the legion, while you fight inwards.
>>
>>1785960
You have not answered any of my points. What we're trying to do here is to take advantage of the two wars to weaken both of them. The forces under this attack is our friend: Niner. We have plasible deniability against the NCR as well because of reasons stated.

>>1785972
>>1785981
I don't think so guys. The NCR views us as unbeatable as of yet because of what Oddball told them. It's why they had (or still have) spybots on us.
>>
>>1786010
>>1786021
>>1786024
>>1786032
"Also we'd like to claim some land afterwards, we have some things in mind that might benefit both of us."

>>1786046
>I don't think so guys. The NCR views us as unbeatable as of yet because of what Oddball told them. It's why they had (or still have) spybots on us.
So Oddball technically did us a solid by being paranoid about us. Thanks, Oddball?
>>
>>1786046
>I don't think so guys. The NCR views us as unbeatable as of yet because of what Oddball told them. It's why they had (or still have) spybots on us

This is just my opinion /assumption but i think its less thinking us unbeatable, and more of not opening a third front conflict

But if MLA attacks from our territory they may not feel like they have a choice.
>>
>>1785944
>- Ask about how unified the MLA is.
"Bout as unified as a bunch of Raiders, Ideologists, Supermutants, and Death claws can get.

Yeah sometimes we get into scraps but what bandit doesnt. But we all know what happens if we let that get in the way of kicking ass of our real enemies.

Its death camps to the east and death camps to the west. Least the Legion have gotten off our backs.

We might scrap ver resources, the best slaves, or because I don't like their face, but when it comes to the Cause we get together.

Not the least cause we all gotta pay respect to the Cult, without them we'd all be dead."
>>
>>1786046
Which points? Playing ignorant?
That won't work because the NCR won't care.

They got a good look at our capabilities. We lack industry. The NCR doesn't see us as unbeatable, but as a neutral power that share enemies. They watch us because that's just standard foreign policy.

It's not that they can't beat us, but that it isn't worth it. Letting the MLA operate in our lands makes annexation more worth it.
>>
>>1786067
So basically, as long as they fight other people, they won't fracture.
Basically a unified front. Why are we helping these assholes?
>>
>>1786067
>Not the least cause we all gotta pay respect to the Cult, without them we'd all be dead."
"Did you guys sell your soul to them, like the Marked Men did?"
"How tough is the war for you?"

>Its death camps to the east and death camps to the west. Least the Legion have gotten off our backs.
"We might be able to offer you refugee in that case, but we'd have to get some more resources to accommodate everyone before we do."
"How bad are your people, say if they tried working with normal people and stuff?"

>>1786084
They remind me of Orks.
>>
>>1786091
And working with the orks never works out for anyone but the orks.
>>
>>1786103
Not unless we can turn them from Orks into Orgyns.
>>
>>1786066
We can say something like:
"We must pull all of our forces back and to defend ourselves from the raider menace." if the NCR comes knocking.

>>1786091
No refugees. Don't do this.
Instead ask:
"Death camps? Are the NCR genociding mutants or something?"
>>
>>1786112
How will that stop the NCR from marching on the Divide and setting up shop there?

And the NCR probably genocides mutant raider rapist murderers. Which is a fair action.
>>
>>1786112
Also, I image the lack of being raided. At all. Would warrant suspicion. If the MLA is getting past our forces to attack the NCR, why are they not attacking us?
>>
>>1785938
>You keep saying the Divide isn't our land, but as far as the NCR is concerned from the border treaty we signed it is.
Except as far as they know we don't do anything in there. Ergo, it is our land in name only and thus they can't blame us.

>We are responsible for anything and everything inside of it. Including the MLA.
Again, not really seeing as we couldn't stop the MLA even if we wanted to.

>>1785939
>We would lose harder if we let them build up more.
They aren't going to be building up more here seeing as they're already well established but we will be you fool.

>We were just fighting against the marked men, we can take whatever they currently have in the region and push them out.
You mean we can take an army of battle hardened, well equipped, dark god enhanced supermutant, ghoul and humans who have experience against robot armies, tanks and everything else under the sun? Who have fucking witches? We'd be fucked and lose the resources of the Divide and get pushed back mile by mile until death or having to join the NCR.

>Better than frontal assaults. Just because it can be mitigated doesn't mean it isn't the best option.
I don't see your point.

>We claimed the Divide, and they respect that because they have no reason not to.
And they'd be fools to suddenly disregard a sovereign nations borders. Seeing as the instant they do that we have no reason to regard theirs as well as it ruining relations and turning us against them.

>If the MLA operates there, then the NCR will come for it.
Assuming they have the resources to spare, the MLA doesn't push them further out, they figure out a way to fight in the Divide effectively and shit.

>You think dealing with the raids means not going at the raiding base camp?
When the raiding camp is underground in a fortified pre-war city in a region which is constantly irradiated and filled with dust storms that strip skin off of people? Aye. Seeing as they'd be fucked to fight in there and Divide storms would make creating a defensive line outside of the Divide difficult.

>You want the NCR to find the Nukes?
Now you are just making inflammatory statements in an attempt to make my position look shit. I'd point out that my immediate plan for those weapons is either to disassemble them and reuse the material or place them in storage for use against the MLA's tunnels as previously described.

>I'm assuming the dark god would keep everyone in line pretty much. Not large scale civil wars, just personal conflicts
Which can escalate to civil wars.

>BOS has no other enemies. they are completely focused on the MLA
I never said enemies, I said concerns. Could be as simple as getting a border with the D.C chapter taking priority over a perceived inevitable victory. Perhaps they're trying to fight something we don't know about or perhaps they're making better progress than we know.

>We claimed it, and we can beat them back.
We did and we can't.
>>
>>1786134
>Except as far as they know we don't do anything in there. Ergo, it is our land in name only and thus they can't blame us.
Its our land. They can blame us, and they will.

>Again, not really seeing as we couldn't stop the MLA even if we wanted to.
As long as they are in our land, we are responsible for them.

I feel our military is strong enough to put up a fight, and i can see us winning. It wont be easy, but its doable.

I think at this point its doubtful well come to a compromise or an agreement for this topic.
>>
>>1785944
>- We recommend him someplace else to attack from somewhere that doesn't lead them back to us.
Personally I'd just let them attack from the Divide and if the NCR asks we got pushed back if they ask.

>- We tell him about the NCR spy drones and as such stress the importance of staying underground. (we can have seismic detectors for future protection from underground attacks.)
Agreed.

>- Ask about how unified the MLA is.
Agreed.

>>1785960
Ignorance is a excuse for not doing shit you dumb fuck. The MLA were far away, why would we ever expect them to pop up in the Divide?

>>1785972
And we could resist them seeing as they'd be distracted dealing with the MLA and we can easily create some fairly effective defences.

>>1785981
If they needed an excuse I am certain they could have found one by now.

>>1786055
>Thanks, Oddball?
Potentially. Still want to kill him though.

>>1786084
Because they are a useful tool for weakening our enemies and are lead in part by old friends of ours.

>>1786116
The NCR as I have stated repeatedly lacks the ability to fight in the Divide.

>>1786123
Static defences can be made cheaply and far more effectively than any sorts of mobile force. So raids can be stopped easily but any sorts of counter actions would be harder.


>>1786134
>Why let them build at all?
Ignoring it weakening the NCR? Because we lack the forces, the industry, the tactics and everything else to fight them and win anything more than a small fight.
>>
>>1786134
Then they are free to move in.we can't handle the claim so its void.

You keep saying that but you have no proof. And the MLA presence will only get worse.

They are partially established, but as niner said, theyre building up more.

And your plan is to roll over and take it like a bitch? Aren't you the anon with all the plans that never go wrong?

The NCR can partially deal with tunnels as they fins them, but tunnelling is still the MLA's best option.

According to you, its not ours so they won't be violating borders. And quartering an enemy force would be a reason to annex anyways.

If the MLA is attacking the heart land"
, they would put resources into stopping it. Just cause you're rolling over doesn't mean they would.

Its the smarter choice than just dealing with surprise attacks. Its what we would do.

Removing the nukes means we don't have the missles anymore. Having warheads lieing around is not helpful.

Well niner says your wrong >>1786067
No civil war anywhere in the horizon

The brotherhood military is wholy focussed on the MLA threat. They can't focus anymore than they already are. The midwest doesn't really care about the east anyways.

We're not fighting the entire MLA, just the ones in the Divide. After that we collapse the tunnels so they can't mount an offensive against us.
>>
>>1786116
Because of the defined borders that we have established when we first met the NCR. Also, we don't know if the NCR DOES genocide mutants, and if they do than you ALSO don't know whether those mutants are raiders or not knowing that there ARE mutants living in the NCR.

>>1786123
Because of the giant ass robot army in the way? We can go with the Switzerland card. "They were too strong and powerful for us to join you while at the same time they didn't want to lay seige to us because we were too dug in" sort of deal. This is of course if they manage to beat back the MLA to warrant such questioning. They will have way too much to deal with in the mean time.
>>
>>1786169
>Its our land. They can blame us, and they will.
Baseless assumptions.

>As long as they are in our land, we are responsible for them.
No, not really seeing as we can claim to be fighting them as hard as we can and the NCR will struggle to disprove it. Plus they wouldn't be able to really do much in the Divide themselves as I have argued in past so they would have to accept this as truth and as the maximum effort we and they can do against the MLA.

>I feel our military is strong enough to put up a fight, and i can see us winning. It wont be easy, but its doable.
No it fucking isn't. These guys can actually go on the offensive, have greater numbers, actual vehicles, better weapons and black magic. We'd be fucked.

>I think at this point its doubtful well come to a compromise or an agreement for this topic.
No, but I am going to stay up just to make sure you don't fuck us up the ass like with Elijah.
>>
>>1786195
>No, but I am going to stay up just to make sure you don't fuck us up the ass like with Elijah.
Are you sure you don't want to sleep so we try soloing Elijah immediately after we leave him? Then end up hospitalized for several weeks?
>>
>>1786189
If enemies are operating from the divide, its free game for the NCR to move in.

And you think the NCR would buy "were to strong"? Don't be ridiculous. If were strong enough to defend ourselves were strong enough to push them back, especially one small cell.
>>
There is a circle of conflict going on:
Brotherhood<->MLA<->NCR<->Legion

>>1786207
Do you think that Switzerland had any capabilities of fighting and defeating the German Army during WW2 if they attacked? Not they didn't But why didn't Germany attack? Oh wait that's right it's because of Switzerland's defenses and strong professional army. Assumptions on your part. With good rolls and more fleshing out of the plan we can succeed.
>>
>>1786215
IN THIS CASE IT'S NOT EVEN A PLAN. IT'S HAVING THE MLA ATTACK THE NCR. YOU ARE ASSUMING THAT THE NCR WOULD GIVE A SHIT AFTER HAVING TO DEAL WITH THIS.
>>
>>1786195
"The fascists won't blame us for not keeping our house in order and letting the MLA operate under our feet"
Haven't you argued repeatedly that the NCR would screw us over at the first opportunity? Why wouuld you think this wont draw their ire?

What happens when they tell us about the MLA and tell us to deal with it? Do we refuse? They are watching us constantly. They can tell if were doing militaty actions.

Yes we can, especially now, before they don't pull in reinforcements. If we can take 3000 marked men, we can take the small MLA force in the divide.

So you want to fuck us over with the NCR to fellate the MLA?
>>
>>1786215
Do you want to cede the entire divide? Cause that's what that means. The NCR wont give it up.
>>
>>1786189
>>1786215
Switzerland had mountains, mountain passes, and scorched earth plans ready for any of their territories.
We have mountains, divide storms, desert plains, and possibly space or tunnels. Also maybe the Cloud depending on what Elijah is doing right now.

We have a similarly strong professional army, and unlike Switzerland, can actually back up our claim that our regulars are like any other nations' special operatives.

>>1786230
For now, let's keep the MLA here, then check on the NCR, then see how it compares if we want to tell the MLA to not draw their attention here.

Also we should check out where any Marked Men who didn't sell their souls went.
>>
>>1786188
>Then they are free to move in.we can't handle the claim so its void.
Except they can't move in either as I have repeatedly stated.

>You keep saying that but you have no proof. And the MLA presence will only get worse.
Aye but they have been preparing for this major offensive for months now seemingly and all those bases that they have in the Divide are stocked with troops armed to the teeth. We couldn't beat them fast enough to prevent them reinforcing and pushing us out.

>They are partially established, but as niner said, theyre building up more.
Aye for a offensive into the NCR. Not to sit around in the Divide.

>And your plan is to roll over and take it like a bitch?
No mine is to accept the deal he offered that entirely gets everything I want from the Divide before moving onto more important shit in my opinion rather than getting into another protracted conflict in the Divide for no reason and pissing off another empire.

>Aren't you the anon with all the plans that never go wrong?
I've never claimed such a thing.

>The NCR can partially deal with tunnels as they fins them, but tunnelling is still the MLA's best option.
Aye I suppose. Your point being?

>According to you, its not ours so they won't be violating borders.
It's ours but that doesn't mean we actively hold it. We claim it but that doesn't mean we are responsible for that which occurs inside.

>And quartering an enemy force would be a reason to annex anyways.
IT'S NOT FUCKING QUARTERING IF YOU CAN'T PUSH THEM OUT. Plus the NCR couldn't fight in the Divide.

>If the MLA is attacking the heart land, they would put resources into stopping it.
Aye but that might prove insufficent or unable to reasonably push back their advance especially given how much they have thrown into fighting the Legion.

>Just cause you're rolling over doesn't mean they would.
Fuck you and the high horse with a dildo for a seat you sit on.

>Its the smarter choice than just dealing with surprise attacks. Its what we would do.
Aye because we can actually move through the Divide without our skin flying off, becoming ghouls, suffering eternally painful un-death or dying. UNLIKE THE NCR.

>Removing the nukes means we don't have the missiles anymore.
Like I give a fuck seeing as that ain't how I plan on using them.

>Having warheads lying around is not helpful.
It is to me.

>No civil war anywhere in the horizon
Never said there was and in fact his point confirms what I was saying: there is potential for civil war but it is suppressed by greater outward threats.

>The brotherhood military is wholy focussed on the MLA threat. They can't focus anymore than they already are. The midwest doesn't really care about the east anyways.
You can't prove that without speaking to the BOS and I would disagree entirely seeing as their leader is at least partly dedicating efforts to expanding elsewhere I would imagine out of interest in bringing more people into his control.
>>
>>1786195


>Baseless assumptions.
Its not baseless. Ive listed my arguments post by post. Just because we disagree doesnt make it baseless, thats ignorant.

The NCR has every possibility of blaming us for any attack that comes from our territory, just as we would do the same if we were suddenly attacked by rogue elments from within the NCR borders.

>No, not really seeing as we can claim to be fighting them as hard as we can and the NCR will struggle to disprove it. Plus they wouldn't be able to really do much in the Divide themselves as I have argued in past so they would have to accept this as truth and as the maximum effort we and they can do against the MLA.

My argument isnt the NCR fighting in the Divide. I Doubt they have the tech, unless oddball is hiding even more shit in his pockets.

My argument is them holding us accountable /potentially attacking us in Big Mt.

>No it fucking isn't. These guys can actually go on the offensive, have greater numbers, actual vehicles, better weapons and black magic. We'd be fucked

I disagree. Sure they can go on the offensive, but there tunneling system as far as we know is in the divide. They can only attack us in the divide, wich turns it into the same city fight weve been winning at against the marked men. They have more numbers and interesting tech, but they cant bring it all to bear when cramped in the punishing confines of a city.

>No, but I am going to stay up just to make sure you don't fuck us up the ass like with Elijah

...... Was i responsible for Elijah? Im actually having a hard time remembering.
>>
>>1785944
>- We ask him who Bitch is.
"HEY BITCH. Wake up!"

He whistles as if to a dog, and starts jangling a chain that leads to one or the two dog cages.

"Bitch is my pet fuck beast, a real animal, wild and crazy on the sack."

You hear a human growl coming from inside, and a sniffing noise. Someone is crawling out on all fours.

An arm painted with tattoos steps out first, followed by a bald, scarred head. Then shoulders leading to breasts and chest seductively wrapped with more tattoos to entice the eyes, all stemming from an unreadable sigil over the heart. Then a belly, swollen with child, and finally the rest of the legs and body.

There, crawling out on all fours and sniffing like a dog is someone you once called Officer Laura Blakely. She volunteered to give her brain at great risk to the TACT bot. You gave her a medal. She has a husband and kids.

And right now she's baying like a dog and crawling up Niners legs, trying to undo his cod piece with her mouth while sniffing his crotch.

"Cult bought her from Bishops men and bound her to the gods. I don't know if she's always like this, got a big scar on her head and said she was zapped by lightning. Fuck me if I could figure out how to do that to some other slaves."

"She's actually not mine. I'm babysitting her for the Cult as a gift. When they found her all she cared about was eating, sleeping, fighting and fucking. Cult trained her real good in the last bit. What man doesn't like a good tussle with a hot babe before doing it like deathclaws in heat!"

She tries to pounce on him, but he pulls her down forcibly by the chain. Then she tries to sniff your pants.

"Unsatiable isn't she. She'd tear the place apart if she doesn't get some good fucking now and then. Thankfully Buster over there keeps her occupied."

He points to the 2nd doghouse.

"You know, I don't even know if what's growing in her is mine or mutant dog. Guess ill find out."
>>
>>1786241
Being in divide means their past the mountains. Its a straight shot to the capital from there. Its nothing like switzerland.

And what do we do if it turns out the MLA would shift the balance of power too much? At that point we can't remove them. Best not to let it get that far.
>>
>>1786258
WHY THE FUCK ARE WE COOPERATING WITH THESE ASSHOLES?
>>
>>1786264
>And what do we do if it turns out the MLA would shift the balance of power too much? At that point we can't remove them. Best not to let it get that far.
We could check up and back in like a turn or two. It won't take that long.

>>1786258
Ah... Okay. Now I have some problems.
>>
>>1786258
"Is she permanently part of Cult property, or is there a way to remove said branding or marking?"

>>1786275
Hm... I feel like this is the sort of people the Cloud was made for.
>>
>>1786258

Niner, Im not sure if you are aware of this or not, but that is one of the members of my Millitary Officers that went missing in action. Who would I have to talk to or kill to get her back?
>>
>>1786230
>Haven't you argued repeatedly that the NCR would screw us over at the first opportunity?
Where it benefits them, I would imagine so yes but this isn't an example.

>Why wouuld you think this wont draw their ire?
Because I am not retarded? Because I think I can imagine a reality where they can respect our tiny state not being able to fuck up the massive MLA offensive that just rushed through?

>What happens when they tell us about the MLA and tell us to deal with it? Do we refuse?
No, we claim that all of our military experts are in agreement that taking offensive action will result in unsustainable losses.

>They are watching us constantly. They can tell if were doing military actions.
And let them fucking watch. They won't see shit seeing as we plan on destroying those spy drones soon.

>Yes we can, especially now, before they don't pull in reinforcements. If we can take 3000 marked men, we can take the small MLA force in the divide.
You are assuming that the MLA force is small, that they are as capable as the Marked Men, that they aren't already being reinforced and that us taking as many marked men as we did wasn't because of luck, positioning and surprise.

>So you want to fuck us over with the NCR to fellate the MLA?
Now you are just being creepy.

>>1786251
>We're not fighting the entire MLA, just the ones in the Divide. After that we collapse the tunnels so they can't mount an offensive against us.
You are assuming that we can defeat their entire force, collapse every tunnel and avoid defeat before they can get a single reinforcement in.

I consider this more insane than declaring a war against the NCR right this instant.
>>
>>1786293
Don't say that. That's bargaining for god property. We can't do that or god strikes is down.
>>
>>1786091
"Yeah. Best decision I ever made. I feel great, stronger than ever, and I run my own clan now. We ain't no gang no more were fucking raiders and we're the bloody best at what we do"

"War is bloody and fucking hard but we make do. It helps that the NCR, Legion, and Brotherhood make so many enemies and are such tight assess that they're practically pushing recruits and outcasts onto us."
"Refugees? Hah. Mate we ARE the go to for refugees. We're fighting for real freedom here. Freedom from the NCRs laws, from the Legions assimilating, and from Brotherhood extinction.

My boys will behave if I tell em too. Just hope you don't mind a few picked up habits."

>>1786112
"Nah. The Brotherhood genocides mutants, ghouls, and deathclaws who don't swear to them. You swear to them they just work you to death anyway.

NCR doesn't care about that much. With them it's the Tribals they round up and gas in camps. Thats why all the Tribals come to us."
>>
>>1786299
I just want to know the name of the person, so that when we aren't bound by the oath we can come back and perform 100Barter AND/OR High Impact Violence.
>>
>>1786307
Fuck the MLA. Get your people out of the divide.
>>
>>1784922
>>1784933
>>1786293
>>1786299
Yeah. We have to be discrete about this. Although I think it only counts if the transaction happens.

>>1786307
Oh fuck...

>>1786307
>"Yeah. Best decision I ever made. I feel great, stronger than ever, and I run my own clan now. We ain't no gang no more were fucking raiders and we're the bloody best at what we do"
"Oh. Is selling your soul permanent? Is there a way to get or buy your soul back?"

>>1786316
Let's not say it to him in those words though. But yeah, this is much worse than I imagined.
>>
>>1786314
Don't want to risk it. Might conflict with the spirit of the deal, and when making deals, we're bound by spirirt, they're bound by letter.
>>
>>1786255
>Its not baseless. Ive listed my arguments post by post. Just because we disagree doesnt make it baseless, thats ignorant.
It is seeing as I have provided counterarguments which to me refute your points entirely. Rendering it a statement without reasoning and thus without basis.

>The NCR has every possibility of blaming us for any attack that comes from our territory, just as we would do the same if we were suddenly attacked by rogue elments from within the NCR borders.
Except this is different because it isn't "rogue elements" it's another nation that is invading that one.

>My argument isnt the NCR fighting in the Divide. I Doubt they have the tech, unless oddball is hiding even more shit in his pockets.
Agreed.

>My argument is them holding us accountable /potentially attacking us in Big Mt.
Which would be retarded seeing as it makes another enemy and draws resources from fighting the MLA.

>I disagree. Sure they can go on the offensive, but there tunneling system as far as we know is in the divide. They can only attack us in the divide, wich turns it into the same city fight weve been winning at against the marked men. They have more numbers and interesting tech, but they cant bring it all to bear when cramped in the punishing confines of a city.
Mate they will win. It's a fact. We just don't have the resources to sustain a war of this scale currently especially against an enemy which scours battlefields for salvage reducing our ability to reclaim war material from our dead and their losses.

>...... Was i responsible for Elijah? Im actually having a hard time remembering.
Quite possibly. All I know is that some of you are to blame and it pisses me off.
>>
>>1786289
>>1786293
Niner turns white and looks horrified.

"Oooohhh fuck. Oh shit man I didn't know!

Fuck me."

'Bitch' hears what he says and turns to him, but Niner decidedly pushes her away.

"Fuck man. . . I am so sorry. I don't know what to say.

I'd give her to you . . .right now. . .but she's not mine. Not even I can give her to you. You'll have to talk to the Cult for that.

. . .

I can try to treat her nicely until you figure something out with them. I'm sort of in a bind not to trade her off . . ."
>>
>>1786337
"And I can't take her because I made an Oath to your god, So for now We can shelve it. I will settle things with the cult when the Oath is released."
>>
>>1786330
We're not dealing with these chucklefucks. They deserve to all die.
>>
>>1786255
>...... Was i responsible for Elijah? Im actually having a hard time remembering.
Well what'd you do back then?
>>1786330
>Quite possibly. All I know is that some of you are to blame and it pisses me off.
Same. It happens though.

>>1786337
>I'd give her to you . . .right now. . .but she's not mine. Not even I can give her to you. You'll have to talk to the Cult for that.
"It's fine. We'll handle it."
>I can try to treat her nicely until you figure something out with them. I'm sort of in a bind not to trade her off . . ."
"Yeah, we know about it. We'd appreciate it, thanks."

"Anything that we should know about so you don't get dragged into this too badly?"

>>1786330
But seriously, what do you think about the recent QM posts?
>>
>>1786351
I'm on a phone right now so my ability to respond is limited. If you can link or post specific questions that'd be nice.
>>
>>1786337
I say we tell Niner "Don't bring Bitch with you to my place. She has family there."
>>
>>1786365
I say we kick the MLA out of our land, and kill them all.
>>
>>1786350
I'm perfectly happy to Deal with the MLA, when they aren't amassing forces in our Territory.
>>
>>1786357
Got it.
>>1786351
>"Anything that we should know about so you don't get dragged into this too badly?"
>>1786343
So we're mostly going to do that.
"If we talk to the Cult about this, trying to get our people back, would there be any instances where it breaks your bindings or oaths? Or so long as it's just us directly you're safe?"

"Do you have any backup plans if things get too hairy?"
>>1786325
"Also, we'd like to know about your soul, that's pretty important."

>>1786365
Yep. In fact, tell him to not bring any of our former people in MLA hands now to our place until we get this sorted out.
>>
>>1786258
Well shit time to go see that Cult lady, eh?

>>1786275
Because the alternative is death.

>>1786307
>NCR doesn't care about that much. With them it's the Tribals they round up and gas in camps. Thats why all the Tribals come to us."
I FUCKING CALLED IT!

>>1786337
"Thanks man, I know you wouldn't do that sort of shit without knowing. I just feel sorry for her husband and children. Not to mention her actual brain which is going to be kinda weirded out by it's body now.

God willing this can be fixed or I will be pissed with your god's cult. I won't break my promise or anything mind you but I might reconsider supporting MLA efforts quite as much as before...this is too fucked up man."

>>1786350
Eh, it's mostly the cult guys that need to die. Even Niner thinks this is fucked clearly.

>>1786351
>But seriously, what do you think about the recent QM posts?
This is the first thing to make me honestly consider shortening the timeline in my head as to when we betray the MLA and is making me consider torture as a appropriate response to anyone who works for this cult.


Brain-wiping is too good for these bastards. I recommend we dispose of their bodies directly into a disintegrator.


>>1786373
In due time. Rushed vengeance merely causes more suffering and lessens the retribution delivered.
>>
>>1786357
There is no more deal. Attack the NCR from literally anywhere else, but we won't talerat MLA prescence in the divide. Pull them out, or we will have to force them out.
>>
>>1786390
Its only fucked because it involved us. He was perfectly happy to do it before we came along.
>>
>>1786391
>>1786397
And? Which shows how much we mean to Niner as a friend. And you want to throw away this valuable political connection over messed up shit we've seen and dealt with before.
>>
>>1786391
That is a terrible position to take, it'll fuck relations up the ass.


Soften the statement. Change it to not tolerating them having their tunnel networks in the Divide but allowing them to still base from there.

I.e we will construct the tunnel, it'll be under watch by us and have a border point and everything.


That'll help with our problem with their presence long term by letting us rig it with defences or explosives to collapse it, show case our construction abilities to them and get us potential buyers for our productions while also getting across how much of a fuck up this is.


>>1786397
Aye and I had few problems with gas weapons against the Legion but slightly more against the NCR but that has changed.

Morality is relative and this is an example. His was based around proximity to those he cares about (e,g us) rather than some inherent standard of value and to be fair she's at least well fed and not being abused too badly by him. Some raiders would've tortured her and shit.
>>
>>1786390
>I FUCKING CALLED IT!
To be fair, many of us called it with the obvious Hitler and Senator Armstrong references. Hell, the QM even used pictures of Hitler to represent him.
>>1781946
The QM also did something similar with Oddball with the obvious Littlefinger references and even images, we might want to use that next time we
gauge someone.

>>1785580
What do our references and pictures on Niner say about him so far?

>>1786390
>This is the first thing to make me honestly consider shortening the timeline in my head as to when we betray the MLA and is making me consider torture as a appropriate response to anyone who works for this cult.
Good to know we're all on the same stance now.

>>1786397
That's largely because we're one of his best friends though. He did think they were bad back with the fiends, but did it to keep himself from being couped. Also because we didn't offer him a good spot as an alternative, I think.
Maybe he just put that on overdrive and went into double-think territory.
>>
>>1786408
So? He's stiill a terrible person. The NCR are better people than the MLA, I rather help the NCR than the MLA.
>>
>>1786417
Fuck relations with the MLA.
>>
>>1786422
>To be fair, many of us called it with the obvious Hitler and Senator Armstrong references. Hell, the QM even used pictures of Hitler to represent him.
I know but quite a few people didn't believe me when I said that the NCR were going to be doing this shit.

>Good to know we're all on the same stance now.
It's still years down the line but I am willing to compromise down from 10-12 years to 8-9 years instead. Pending if we can get the BOS to align with us and how things go in general.

However I reserve the right to torture, experiment and hunt all members of the dark god cult and of the follower's of the War lord Bishop seeing as he is involved in this.
>>
>>1786437
No one thought they werent. Just that the MLA are worse.
>>
>>1786434
And now you sound like a emotionally driven and irrational retard. You'll ruin our ability to take revenge for what they have done and kill their dark god if you screw things up.
>>
>>1786442
We knew the MLA were worse. To be frank as far as challenging moral expectations goes the Legion have risen the farthest to me, the NCR fell the furthest and the MLA haven't really done all that much I didn't expect.
>>
>>1786443
We kick them out of the divide, then work with the NCR ti defeat the rest of the MLA. We don't have to cooperate with them to defeat them. Not everything requires subterfuge.
>>
>>1786437
>I know but quite a few people didn't believe me when I said that the NCR were going to be doing this shit.
In their defense, the same thing happened when they said that about Hitler.
This is getting meta.

>>1786434
Man this'll end up with another Elijah if we do it rushed like this.
>>1786443
Yeah man, let's keep another Elijah from happening.

>>1786408
>>1786417
>>1786422
This is taking protagonist-centered morality to extreme levels.
>>
>>1786457
I agree with you on us removing the MLA from the Divide, but I have to stand against you on working with the NCR. Im sorry man.
>>
>>1786459
When we went upp against Elijah, we were alone. Now we have an army so we can fight back.
>>
>>1786473
Well at least you agree with kicking the mla out. We can side with he brotherhood to kill the MLA. But helpiing the MLA is just karma suicide.
>>
>>1786457
It does when the alternative risks literally everything on your vague belief that we can defeat what they have in the Divide in a timely manner and that they won't dig new tunnels.

>>1786459
>Yeah man, let's keep another Elijah from happening.
Agreed.

>This is taking protagonist-centered morality to extreme levels.
True but the Courier is a self-centred and self-serving individual in the game, plus what we've said is not inaccurate.

>>1786474
An army wouldn't have helped then and it's too small to help now.
>>
>>1786476
Vs. your vague belief that we can't? We can totally win this. Just like we were winning against the marked men and their numbers.

You're the one who says that you could cripple the NCR with a bag of dynamite. Think of something. We can win this battle.
>>
>>1786490
>You're the one who says that you could cripple the NCR with a bag of dynamite.
fo'real?

>Think of something. We can win this battle.
Which battle?
>>
>>1786490
I agree that we have the potential to win, but this is going to be nothing like fighting the Marked men. The only thing we have going for us is the fact that its a punishing City fight which works in our favor, and that we have a zax to analyze tactics. I think its worth a shot, but by no means is it going to be easy.
>>
>>1786495
That is plan anon. Hes always has plans that definitely always work.

The battle against the MLA for the divide.
>>
>>1786501
I know, but the MLA is both bad for us materially, and karmically. They need to go.
>>
>>1786504
>Hes always has plans that definitely always work.
Which ones? I figured we did it collaboratively so there wasn't any one specific anon who did it.
Was he the anon who thought up of the Alien Scout Ship tractor beam to demine areas? Or the one with the robot formations?

>>1786504
>The battle against the MLA for the divide.
I can think of one, but I personally think there's a much better way to go about it than effectively straight up challenging them to a battle of sorts.
>>
>>1786385
>"Anything that we should know about so you don't get dragged into this too badly?"
Can you clarify what you are asking anon?
>>
>>1786517
He's the one who is always suggesting thing on the basis he has a plan, and they definitely will work, but no one really goes for them. I just find it amusing how he seems to see pushing out the MLA as impossible.

I actually thought up using the tractor beam for demining.

Well tell us the plan.
>>
>>1786490
>Just like we were winning against the marked men and their numbers.
We were winning because they lacked heavy weapons, vehicles and the ability to throw numbers at us.

>You're the one who says that you could cripple the NCR with a bag of dynamite.
Actually I said weaken and that was a long time ago. They've had years to industrialise since then.

>Think of something. We can win this battle.
I can't think of something when we know nothing about the enemy, their numbers, their training, their tactics or anything else.

The best I can provide is that we could use the tactical nukes in the region to collapse their tunnels using the shockwaves, that'll at least reduce their ability to reinforce anytime soon. That is all I can provide to you if you are going to force this route but dammit, this will get us killed.

>>1786512
I disagree on the material front but agree morally this is horrible but to be frank I feel it is a good sacrifice for the good of our civilisation.
>>
>>1786539
What should we know about so Niner doesn't break the oaths or bindings he's under from our actions, or us by extension from trying to get our captured soldiers back?
In addition, if say, a fight or battle breaks out in a fit of passion, anything we should know about regarding breaking rules of our current contract? Would say, slapping one of the cultists or the MLA warlord who captured our forces with our oath make us lose our hand or something?
If say, our forces decide to declare war on the MLA warlord who captured them because this happened to piss us off enough, would he be able to lay low or even seek refugee with us?

We'd like to throw Niner a bone here as thanks, so we'd like for him to not die or suffer a fate worse than death because of this.

>>1786545
>Well tell us the plan.
Give me a bit while we deal with Niner.
>>
>>1786557
No vehicles in tunnels, the Marked men had anti-armour weapons.

We can use normal seismic charges to collapse the tunnels, as well as liberal use of fire. Fire in tunnels both suffocates and cooks, so is very effective.

materially it is a bad idea, because the NCR response would spill over and impact us, by nature of proximity, and how much the NCR cares about our collateral. It is really not for the good of our civilization except in the short term. Long term, the MLA operating in the DIvide would be a bitch and a half to uproot, especially as they fortify more and more.
>>
>>1786385
>"If we talk to the Cult about this, trying to get our people back, would there be any instances where it breaks your bindings or oaths? Or so long as it's just us directly you're safe?"

"Well, sometimes they make an oath that's works only in our lands. When people leave it stops being active, until they come back or try to attack us. Then it comes back and works again again.

Better check to see if its one of those oaths. Sometimes you can tell by leaving and coming back. They say the paper used to sign the deal will dissappear and reappear."

>"Do you have any backup plans if things get too hairy?"
"If shit goes wrong the attack? We fall back like we always do and try somewhere else.

He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day and all."

>"Also, we'd like to know about your soul, that's pretty important."
"I uh. . .sold it. I don't know if there's a way to get it back. Maybe you have to buy it back but I don't know. I kinda have a good thing going on here and don't wanna ruin it."
>>
>>1786570
Oath only applies until we get home. Then it's back to business.

And do we really want Niner to not die? He's kinda a terrible person. The sort everyone else would kill off in a heart beat.
>>
>>1786575
"Can you promise me that your raids won't get the NCR watching me or my people closely or trying to attack us? I don't feel comfortable if you all run away to attack from somewhere else and leave me and my people to deal with the aftermath."
>>
>>1784975
>-this contract grants you safe passage for the duration it is due, until the end of your journey here, and once you have left the MLA
>>1786575
>Better check to see if its one of those oaths. Sometimes you can tell by leaving and coming back. They say the paper used to sign the deal will dissappear and reappear."
"It's a one-off contract, only for this one journey. So thanks for mentioning that."

>>1786580
I dunno. AXE MAN's kind of like that, actually. He's a blood knight who's formerly a Raider for a good fight. We just happen to be able to work with that.
>And do we really want Niner to not die?
Biggest reason is he'd be our best bet for a Raider contact so we can get shit from them without having to fight for it.

Also, from what I can tell by our interactions, discussions about, and conversations with the Raider companions, we're effectively their moral compass.

>>1786545
>I actually thought up using the tractor beam for demining.
Clever thinking, anon! That really saved us a ton of heartache, so thanks for that suggestion.
>>
>>1786603
Well AXE-MAN is a blood knight, not a rapist demon cultist, so not really the same thing. Violence can be used productively. Rape cannot.
>>
>>1786616
Not with that attitude! Don't actually do this.
>>
>>1786390
"Uh what do you mean 'her brain'?"

>>1786570
>In addition, if say, a fight or battle breaks out in a fit of passion, anything we should know about regarding breaking rules of our current contract
It probably is voided if someone else starts a fight. Unless maybe you goad them on or something. You aren't sure.

>Would say, slapping one of the cultists or the MLA warlord who captured our forces with our oath make us lose our hand or something?
Entirely possible.

>If say, our forces decide to declare war on the MLA warlord who captured them because this happened to piss us off enough, would he be able to lay low or even seek refugee with us?
You don't know.
>>
>>1786628
>"Uh what do you mean 'her brain'?"
"It's a long story. You'll understand when you get there."
>>
>>1786588
"Hmmm. You make a good point.

But look, we gotta fight the NCR somehow. The Legion keeps feeding them as many tribals as they can muster but they won't last forever.

If we can turn the tide around here, go back on the offensive, we might just win this!

I think we can do it with your help"
>>
>>1786635
OOC, We don't want that though. We want to maintain balance of power, so they should find another way.
>>
>>1786635
"So those other Warlords. How bad are they generally speaking, or say compared to you? How much do they listen to you or would to me?"

>>1786642
Pretty much, but let's not tell them that.
>>
>>1786631
Don't say this. As much as I support having the MLA fight the NCR I don't want the MLA to know about it.

>>1786642
Yeah the whole point of me supporting a proxy war is to weaken/stunt the NCR's winning streak.
>>
>>1786631
>>1786647
Hm, true. Here's a more prudent one:
"Wastelander sayings and stuff. You know, the usual. Think of it as a metaphor of sorts."
>>
>>1786644
Which is why out of character.

Preferably, if we can get them to move their troops for a less strategically beneficially attack, But we can't let them actually mount the offensive. I would say warn the NCR when it happens, but that doesn't look good for us.
>>
>>1786654
>Which is why out of character.
Yep. I was acknowledging it like that.

>Preferably, if we can get them to move their troops for a less strategically beneficially attack, But we can't let them actually mount the offensive. I would say warn the NCR when it happens, but that doesn't look good for us.
Along those lines, yes.
>>
>>1786653
>>1786635
Forgot to link them.
>>
>>1786635
"Look that might be the case but you have to understand how difficult it would be to justify that to my people as well as how much that would cost for us to do. You'd need to give a damn good incentive for me to do that like most if not all the NCR's land whenever the war is finished. You can take most of the adult population but my people need the industry, space and resources they have."


>>1786635
Well, if we were to have the MLA destroy the NCR, we could then work to spread across their lands and establish a bunch of Enclaves. Then once we've grown sufficiently and they are busy fighting against the BOS (and don't have the raids against the NCR to help sustain them) we can turn against them and shit.

Still having a alliance with the MLA seems like it'd allow for a balance between all of the factions most easily (Legion would be better but it'd be too difficult to pull off) but I think we could pull off a continued independent route if we made some risky choices and avoided open conflict for now.

>>1786654
No, no, warning the NCR raises questions of how we found out. Better to give the MLA a few dozen advanced tunnelling machines on loan so they can tunnel quicker and farther, allowing them to expand their tunnel networks through the NCR faster and thus strike deeper into their lands and shit and therefore avoid linking it to us and our region.

We could also see about taking over their industrial infrastructure and shit. Becoming a major manufacturing centre and modernising their factories as well as connecting them all together or something.
>>
>>1786694
Dude, why are you trading the Entire NCR adult population for this?

Having the MLA destroy the NCR is not balance of power. And if the MLA win, they get a whole bunch of the NCR's shit to use. The MLA cannot win. Alliance with the MLA is not a balance if it ends with them winning. Best stay out of everything like we have been doing.

Exactly Which is why I said it won't look good.
>>
>>1786644
"Lotta War Lords out there, I only remember the most notable ones.

There's Mr. Bishop. He's a real tough son of a bitch. Big guy, chisled chin, kinda looks like uh, Yaunker for some reason but younger. Says he took over the Bishops at only 13 years old. Likes to travel the waste and foot and has a thing for finding good shit. Leads the Bishop clan along with a number of Tribals, although the tribals gotta make their gods pay heed to the Great Elder one. Apparently he used to believe in his tribal gods and kept up being a goody two-shoes but after they failed him and most of his family got butchered by the NCR he swore over to the Great Elder One.

We have a smart Deathclaw clan lead by an alpha called Basim. Apparently their leader comes from the Mojave and a different Deathclaw clan that got split in two after the son of the last alpha got into a quarrel with the brother of the alpha. Half of them joined us, the other half went to the Brotherhood of Steel.

Warlord Black Knight, or well, the Black Kinght. Used to be a member of, get this, a Brotherhood Paladin that defeated a Super Mutant general to become their leader.. That paladin was killed by the Brotherhood of Steel, and so half the Super Mutants fled while half the others joined the BoS. Black Knight ended up being mutated into a super mutant himself. Turns out the BoS machine general ended up sending them to work camps so those who fled just left to join him.

Couple of others but I hardly care about them to even remember."
>>
>>1786694
This is quite the significant proposal, so I would like some support for it before it goes through.

Also if you anons wish to continue negotiations, go somewhere else in the city, or return home then say so.
>>
>>1786733
No support for that. The MLA cannot be allowed to win. Ever.
>>
>>1786694
I disagree completely. The POINT is to maintain BALANCE and have them weaken each other until we have the opportunity to destroy them. The NCR is breaking this balance. We allow the MLA to attack for the SOLE reason of weakening the NCR.
>>
>>1786694
I don't want to hand over the NCR Pop to the MLA, I would rather have them integrate into us after their nation is destroyed.
>>
>>1786733
Yeah. I not supporting that. We can't allow them to win. And we need the population for our own civ
>>
>>1786708
>Dude, why are you trading the Entire NCR adult population for this?
Because most of it will end up being killed fighting them or sacrificed to the dark gods I'd imagine and to be frank I am talking hypothetically to him.

Also because I am literally trying to get across to him how much he is asking us to risk, that the reward to us would need to be insanely huge for us to risk war with the NCR when the MLA haven't managed to gain ground against the NCR for some time.

>Having the MLA destroy the NCR is not balance of power.
It is if your goal is to eliminate the only actual competition.

>And if the MLA win, they get a whole bunch of the NCR's shit to use. The MLA cannot win.
Which is why the stipulation is that they got the population and we get the land, industry and resources.

>Alliance with the MLA is not a balance if it ends with them winning.
Fuck balance. That concept was before the ticking timer on the MLA that is the BOS.

>Best stay out of everything like we have been doing.
Except that hasn't been working. We at the very least need to look into taking advantage of the MLA to expand into new regions via their tunnels and thus get stronger.


>>1786733
It's just hypothetical man, not actually something to say seriously just a sort of statement of what he is asking us to risk. I just want to hear what the MLA through him will actually offer us if we managed to win their war and all that shit or even if we join.


>>1786754
And I agree if I thought that was feasible I would recommend it but currently I feel we are best off helping the MLA get stronger, delaying the arrival of the BOS, weakening the NCR and relieving the Legion from the NCR's attacks. Thus getting us more time to build up and then descend into the Legion's lands via Utah and quickly seize land and resources to then turn against the NCR once more, then against the MLA and then by that point we should be strong and large enough to relax for a moment and focus on civilian technological advancement and other such shit.

>>1786755
Fair enough but I doubt it is going to be that easy, plus the NCR's population is far less than what we expect given they have been killing off all of the Tribals and I only said most of the NCR's adult population. Children are exempt for example, as they can be raised in our culture and avoid the difficulties of having to integrate a massive population that we conquered.

>>1786762
We don't need that much population given the fact we plan on using robots for more or less all hard labour and have AI's that can do research and shit. Plus for every human we effectively get two thanks to Brains.


On the other hand it is 3 AM and I honestly can't be entirely certain what I am thinking is a good idea.
>>
>>1786773
Alright in 2241 NCR has 700k people. We shouldn't allow MLA to get the 2+ million people that we can use to fuel our nation in research ans advancement of knowledge.
>>
>>1786624
Don't take this statement at face value, please.
>>1786616
>Rape cannot.
True.

More seriously, we should find out what Niner's actual motives are. Originally he was a regular Raider who killed the Fiends leader and took his position because of their rank challenging policy, maybe the MLA has the same thing.
I don't know about the rape part, we'd have to ask him if he thinks he's doing that or has some weird twisted logic that fulfills a fetish fantasy or something. Maybe he needs a therapist.
>>1785818
We do know that he seems mostly to be in it the drugs, from what he said about the Elder God's drugs or stuff they cook up.
So he'd in an integrated manner most likely be a casino or nightlife addict.
>>1786603
Plus, from what I can tell we're their moral compass so we should be able to guide them fairly well, assuming we can satisfy their base need for high levels of entertainment.

>>1786694
>>1786733
Nope. That breaks the balance of power and upsets things completely for us. Plus it'll involve some very bad news for the rest of the wastes.
>>1786754
>>1786755
>>1786762
Also, guys, remember how the Elder Gods and their cultists by default are fueled by blood sacrifices? Imagine how powerful and nightmarish they will be if we let them have a few million people.
>>1786776
Yep.

>>1786773
This deal is way too heavily in the MLA, more so than you think. Sacrifices are all they care about really. With it they don't need anything else, nearly.
I appreciate the idea, but let's hash things out a bit more after some more discussion with them and checking up on the other factions.

I think I might have an idea on how to make the MLA work.
>>
>>1786773
It doesn't sound hypothetical. And why would they not accept that deal. Lots of slaves and sacrifices.

By making a larger competition? With dark magic? I rather face the NCR on a straight fight than the MLA. You're the one who was saying how dangerous they are with their magic.

Slaves and sacrifices are power. Smart slaves, hardy slaves, 2 million sacrifices. That is a deal very much in the MLA favour.

And then the BOS fights the NCR. Why do you like the MLA so much? We're supposed to be better.

Expand east into the Mojave. We don't need the MLA. The NCR is not interested in finishing off the Legion, so we can take what we want.
>>
>>1786782
How? I'm thinking we leave get a tour of the tunnels, lay a fuck ton of bombs, and bring the entire network down on top of their heads.
>>
People here are getting way ahead of themselves in terms of what is being proposed. I like the idea of striking a deal with the MLA to have them attack from a different position or somewhere the doesn't lead directly to us. We can let the story progress a little to see what he offers what they are capable etc. Then we can take our alien scout ship and consult ZAX to search for a possible route for the MLA to take for a suprise attack. The attack will start and we'll leak information about the other's battle plans to keep the balance.
>>
>>1785157
My mental 5 turn outline was derailed because of recent MLA events.
>>1786545
>>1786570
Also my previous one for the MLA, thanks to Niner being kind of a bro or helpful.

>>1786799
That's a pretty good if direct route. Mine's more I guess, involved.

>>1786720
As Niner explicitly said to us, and has worked for other Raider groups in the past, they work on a rank challenge or Klingon Promotion system. This means whoever we kill within the rules of that system, we take the spot of, or can push a demand to get our shit back.
We check up with the cultists and any other MLA information booths or kiosks, if they have something like that, and see how the rules of their society and hierarchy works. What it takes for us to get our shit back and advance. It's most likely pretty simple and just what I mentioned.

We get Niner to vouch for us, be our champion, support our claim to be another MLA warlord, or we be his champion depending on how that works.
Get Niner and other inside contacts to give us as much info on our targets as possible.

We then proceed to go full on Quest mode, backed by support.
>>1786720
>There's Mr. Bishop.
After that, we then go straight up to Mr. Bishop, demand our motherfucking people back or we demand a trial by combat or duel, which we plan on wrecking him in.
We force him to accept by either the rules of their society, or by simply threatening war because he was a dick. We'll pin the blame on him and stuff in the threatening route and put it all over his head because a lot of devastation ahead could've easily been avoided.
We get our people back, then either we or Niner take his spot.
Rinse and repeat until we're at the top of the MLA food chain.

While we're doing this, we exert our influence to tear the rest of the MLA away from the Elder Gods, because fuck them. They have bad mojo and vibes and shit. Also you have to sell your soul to them to be included as a member, and sacrifice a shit-ton of souls or people to get any benefits.

>>1786836
Yeah. That's a good idea in line with my earlier plans.
>>
>>1786847
But how does that solve the problem of MLA in the Divide?
>>
>>1786847
>>1786853
Warlord status. We command them by that point.
>>
>>1786782
>Nope. That breaks the balance of power and upsets things completely for us. Plus it'll involve some very bad news for the rest of the wastes.
True but I'll be honest every other faction does too. The NCR will kill all tribals, the MLA enslaves and tortures and sacrifices, the Legion is the Legion and the BOS is the BOS.

To be frank none of them are morally right for the wastes.

>This deal is way too heavily in the MLA, more so than you think. Sacrifices are all they care about really. With it they don't need anything else, nearly.
I suppose.

>I appreciate the idea, but let's hash things out a bit more after some more discussion with them and checking up on the other factions.
Agreed, again this is just my general feeling that allying with the MLA for now is for the best since we need to get population and resources and they are a group who can supply us with both, provide land to expand to and are currently losing their war slightly and thus wouldn't upset the balance if they were empowered.

>I think I might have an idea on how to make the MLA work.
Let's hear it then.

>>1786793
>It doesn't sound hypothetical. And why would they not accept that deal. Lots of slaves and sacrifices.
That is the point of it, this is what we consider of equal value to that many sacrifices as they would be to them.

>By making a larger competition? With dark magic? I rather face the NCR on a straight fight than the MLA. You're the one who was saying how dangerous they are with their magic.
Because magic is an unknown. I can tell you how much stronger someone is based off the thickness of their armour or the calibre of their rifle but I can do fuck all with magic.

>Slaves and sacrifices are power. Smart slaves, hardy slaves, 2 million sacrifices. That is a deal very much in the MLA favour.
2 million sacrifices gets 20,000 below super-mutant strength super soldiers for the MLA if that one man we met is anything to go off of, so it's not that major when given the NCR's shit we could produce that many Securitrons per turn probably.

>And then the BOS fights the NCR. Why do you like the MLA so much? We're supposed to be better.
Because the MLA isn't performing genocide as strange as that concept may sound.

>Expand east into the Mojave. We don't need the MLA. The NCR is not interested in finishing off the Legion, so we can take what we want.
I suppose but I am just telling you that I feel we can rely on what the MLA is going to do much more so than the NCR. Seeing as we have good friends in their leadership.

>>1786799
Wouldn't work. For the size of bombs we could reasonably carry in if you want to hit many tunnels, we'd delay them a week or two at most.

>>1786836
Something like that. I still say renting out to them digging machines so they can tunnel more would be a good idea since it is a source of income for us, gets more use out of any mining robots we make and helps maintain the balance of power.
>>
>>1786856
They are Niner's men though. Warlord status doesn't mean dick over his men.
>>
>>1786575
>>1786720
>>1786853
>>1786856
Wait, which one's the Warlord in the Divide again? Niner, right?-
We can just work something out with him if that's the case.
>>1786864
Yeah. Niner's our bro. We can just work something out with him.
>>
>>1786847
Fact is our next dozen turns are going to look fairly standard in my opinion but we'll see how it goes.
>>
>>1786857
If magic is something to be feared, why are you suggesting making their magic stronger? nip the bud while we can, not give them 2 million sacrifices.

The 2000 marked men sacrifice was split among all the MLA. 2 million would mean he gets 1000 times stronger.

MLA would genocide the NCR, by raping and killing them all. Their Omnicidalm, which is worse than genocidal.

I'm saying we can't because if we let this happen, the MLA will be more powerful than we can deal with.
>>
>>1786871
We just tried that- He's not going for that.

And why do we want to keep the MLA alive anyways? their all murderers and rapists and demon worshipers.
>>
>>1786884
Of course. That's just for the Courier. Only duelists are needed there. Which, come to think about it, people like AXE MAN, Riddick, and such would be great for.
We don't need many people for the MLA legal conquer route, which is fortunate because we can't spare many.

>>1786890
He was bringing up a proposal for the sake of discussion, from the looks of it.

>>1786897
Either integrating through intense power, or as cannon fodder that we can decide on our own terms.
>We just tried that- He's not going for that.
Isn't that because we haven't actually proposed anything in exchange yet?
>>
>>1786908
But why support the MLA at all? What qualities do they have that is worth anything to us?
>>
>>1786897
>And why do we want to keep the MLA alive anyways? their all murderers and rapists and demon worshipers.
>>1786908
>Either integrating through intense power, or as cannon fodder that we can decide on our own terms.
>>1786913
Real talk. It's actually because of their military experience and, well, Raiding ability. If that's what their utility is.
The MLA is the cesspool of the worst, and somehow is a passive magnet for a bunch of people, we could use the dregs like that pop up from other wars instead of having to kill them all.

Also refugees. Remember how the NCR and Legion genocides drove otherwise normal people into the MLA's arms? We could use whatever immigration propaganda they're using to get those people, and direct them to our faction instead.
>>
>>1786908
Also, you assume the cultists won't turn everyone against us for hearesy or something. They see the future and make godly binding pacts. Might make being a warlord require selling our soul or something.
The MLA is a problem that must be removed, not suborned.
>>
>>1786923
That's a fair point. Which is why we need to talk some more about that first. That was an initial proposal from what we have so far.
We could also try figuring out the precog counters that stems from the Courier's whimsey and psionic protection for that sort of stuff.

>>1786923
>Also, you assume the cultists won't turn everyone against us for hearesy or something.
Then you'd have to wonder how many are bonafide cultists and not people like Niner who either needed it or took it for the benefits.
>>
>>1786921
Problem is if they joined up, they're participants, not refugees anymore. And we have robots for fodder. And we have superior military minds. And why would we raid?

We can use propagaanda to attract refugees now, we don't need to control the MLA for that.
>>
>>1786929
Well everyone else sold their soul, so their gonna remove us if we try anything that prevents them from gaining power. They also probably can't take back their souls.

Just wipe out the MLA. We don't need them and they don't get us anything worth being involved with their filth.
>>
>>1786931
>And why would we raid?
Not raid in-and-of itself. Guerrilla warfare and asymmetrical warfare. They've been managing with a bunch of scrap and shit to hold off the NCR. They even proved to actually do decently against our robots.

>We can use propagaanda to attract refugees now, we don't need to control the MLA for that.
Right. But at the moment it's split between the MLA and other factions. I don't plan on keeping the MLA by itself around after we win them over, more like take what we want without having to go to war with them.

This would be much easier or effective than having to do a conventional war after all.

>>1786935
Okay, then I have another plan for that, but we're seriously missing out on stuff if we don't at least check up on the conditions first.
>>
Are we all in agreement at least to see what it would take to move the MLA somewhere else that's not the divide Similar to >>1786836 anons post?

I feel were just in a circular argument that's not getting us very far.
>>
=>>1786940
Yeah. It's Niner, we can work something out.
>>
>>1786940
Yeah. Get them out of the divide however possible for now. Later we can decide about exterminating them.
>>
>>1786940
Supporting this.

We should suggest that they attack the NCR's forests and fuel infrastructure. That would have a stronger impact than just a counterattack against their fortified frontline. With less fuel, their airforce would be less of a threat and they could raid the north more easily.

That would get them out of the Divide.
>>
>>1786940
>>1786942
>>1786943
Where are you going to suggest they attack from?
>>
>>1786946
Can we get a map or relative position of forces right now? I'm not sure what we're looking at.
>>
>>1786940
I can at the very least agree to seeing what it'd take to get the MLA to not launch their offensive from here.

If it's a matter of not wanting to dig more tunnels, we rent out our advanced mining / tunnelling machines to them so they can at least exit their tunnels away from our shit.

If it's a matter of the Divide being a functional barrier to NCR counter attacks, maybe we can negotiate for them to delay the attack from here or something.

If it's just a matter of it being possible, we can see what is possible: what they will give us and what we would need to give up.


Main point is we aren't going to go to war right now and might even end up not forcing them out of the Divide.
>>
>>1786948
Lemme work on one real quick.
>>
>>1786946
Take out the trees take out the NCR fuel
>>
>>1786946
The north, at the forests. Build a tunnel network under the trees, and they won't find you or be able to attack you.
>>
>>1786946
This is all OOC
A) We could build them a teleporter pad, charge them a fee, and poof them wherever they want. Similar to a toll booth. Let them pick their target and use the couriers Portaltransponder to go an build it.

B) Send them north to fuck up the Miracle Trees

Those are the only options I could think of, Its late. Im sure ill come up with something decent at some point when its too late to matter.
>>
>>1786966
>>1786953
QM's going to give us a map, so there might be more.
Nice suggestion with the transponders though, if incredibly expensive.
>>
>>1786946
>>1786024
>>1786945
>Niner
"Forests? All that way? That's hundreds of miles away from the Front. I don't know if the Legion could hold out that long.

Sure would cut off their fuel, but then we'd be in a bad spot. We don't get any good tunnel networks in there or sufficient forest cover, and they'll bomb us to hell man.

My forces are better for attacking and counter attacking, using captured weapons and ammo. Holding territory isn't our thing.

Though, maybe if you were to give us a hand it might be possible. But that's a really big gamble man. I don't think we could do it on our own."
>>
>>1786993
Set the forest on fire. You don't need to hold it, just destroy it. That's more you're speed.
>>
>>1786931
>>1786939
Also, just so you know, the MLA has vastly more manpower in general that we don't have. We could use that for really menial shit like salvaging, because we don't have enough salvagers.
Also we might be able to ask them for a favor in return to help us conquer strategic areas like the Hoover Dam that they don't care about, so we don't have to wait to do it ourselves.

>>1786993
"Say, Niner. How much manpower do you have. How good are they at doing menial shit like salvaging? If you could help us salvage, get resources, or simply divert it from the MLA or your stockpiles already, we could speed up the timetable on that much sooner than you'd think. Which means you'd have more time to then get your other stuff or really grab the NCR by the balls. Win-win."

"How much time does the Legion have?"

>>1787002
They still need to get there, that's the thing.
>>
OOC
do we tell him about teleporting shenanigans or no? Would get his army in an out fast enough, but as anon pointed out, its expensive to make.
>>
>>1786993
"Bishop already cut off their forests to the northeast in New Idaho though they're fighting real hard to do it.

Legion to the northwest have been driven back and had to give up New Washington and high tail it to Canada, though they're trying to mount counter attacks."

>>1787002
"We don't got the fuel for that. We'd need flamethrowers. Big damn flamethrowers. Or some kind of large energy weapon."
>>
>>1787005
>>1786970
That and it's sort of a trade secrets of ours.
We'd get more if they helped us get resources for stuff on a loan.

>>1787007
>"We don't got the fuel for that. We'd need flamethrowers. Big damn flamethrowers. Or some kind of large energy weapon."
"What about a big artillery piece?"
>>
>>1787004
Salvage bots. Any jobs that need random scumbags can be mechanized.

>>1787007
We'll make some firebombs. You pay us, then go burn down the woods.
>>
>>1787011
"We'd need to make them fast or get some really extensive tunnel networks there which don't exist mate."
>>
>>1787004
One idea would be to get the MLA to allow us to salvage, farm, sell and otherwise perform economic work in their lands. Effectively letting us focus purely on that in their region.

Honestly however we just need to get a few colonies up and running across the US. They can passively expand and we can focus on getting a good presence in Utah and then building up industries and a army there. Which we can then use to take control of the Legion lands in the region and then all the way to NV to link up to our teleported task force.


>>1786993
"Would you be able to hold your own or even advance against the Legion if we were to take it out?"


Lads this is what we are good at. Small tactical raids and that sort of thing.

Riddick flies the Scout ship, burns down the forest while we go as the Courier and check up on the NV area and figure out what is still there or if the Legion have lost control.


>>1787005
Actually those wouldn't help since they need a large amount of power.
>>
>>1787007
>Or some kind of large energy weapon."
OOC - Reverse Engineer the Alien ship heat ray?
>>
>>1787028
>Salvage bots. Any jobs that need random scumbags can be mechanized.
Of course, but we don't have them now do we? We need them to get the shit for us so we can then deal with them more easily, unless you want to wait a good while.
Manpower or robotpower, same thing.

>>1787037
Alternatively, copy the disintegrator tank that we blew up earlier because we didn't want to lose all our shit to the Berserker AIs.
>>
>>1787035
We would hear from the NCR if they took New Vegas. Keep in mind The vision. NCR is slow rolling this. Could take a decade for the Legion to fall.

I still don't see any reason to letting the MLA survive. They're working to empower a dark god that will kill us all, are generally terrible people, and can't provide us anything we can't get ourselves, whether it is labour or resources.
>>
>>1787028
"If you can get us big enough bombs. Woudn't happen to have any Nukes would you?

But even then, if this works, we deprive the NCR of fuel for a bit. That doesn't stop their big giant spearhead trying to kill the Legion.

What if they do manage to knock the Legion out of the war? That would be bad for us, we're trying to stop it."
>>
>>1787047
That works to
>>
>>1787050
Yes it does. If the spear head runs out of fuel, they die. They would stay put if their fuel sources were crippled. And it's a forest, just need enough numbers and a dry enough month.
>>
>>1787047
We can build them with Divide steel. We have more than enough material to build up a good amount of scavengers and soldiers and such.
>>
>>1787050
>But even then, if this works, we deprive the NCR of fuel for a bit. That doesn't stop their big giant spearhead trying to kill the Legion.
"But fuel. How much of a surplus do they have anyways?"

>"If you can get us big enough bombs. Woudn't happen to have any Nukes would you?
"We can get a lot of stuff, and have some stuff. Just depends on what we'd want to go for."

>>1787004
Also this.

>>1787068
That's in-character, right?
>>
>>1787076
yes.
>>
>>1787076
"Hell if I know, we've been stealing their gas and it hasn't stopped em.

Don't even know how big the forests are. What if they're like, really really big?"
>>
"And I still don't got a solution on how we can dig a tunnel so quickly. It took us fucking years man to just get to the Divide. The forests are almost twice that distance away. I think. "
>>
>>1787085
Just burn the fire down when it's really windy and dry.

Axeman also is still alive axing things Niner.
>>
>>1787074
Material, yes, but can we collect it fast enough for our purposes?
To put it into simpler terms, think of how we're using the MLA as really deplorable, quick-and-dirty outsourcing. How's that?

>>1787085
>Don't even know how big the forests are. What if they're like, really really big?"
"Couldn't we, well, get a map then? It's not like the NCR doesn't know how large their own forests are."
>"Hell if I know, we've been stealing their gas and it hasn't stopped em.
"That's because you've been raiding convoys, not the source. Convoys are like the little people."

>>1787094
"You'll see soon enough."

>>1787004
My answer depends on if they can answer this or not.
>>
>>1787094
You think Ive just been sitting on my ass all this time? Nah man, it'll ruin the surprise. You'll see soon enough.
>>
>>1787104
Scrappers would increase rate of resource gain, so once we get rolling, we're going to just keep going faster and faster.

I don't like buying from slave economies.
>>
>>1787049
>We would hear from the NCR if they took New Vegas. Keep in mind The vision. NCR is slow rolling this. Could take a decade for the Legion to fall.
True. We should honestly see about getting the forces we'd need to take it over. 2000 Securitrons, 100 TACTs of various types (40 "front line" command, 20 artillery, 15/15 drone tenders and 10 computation hubs (the ones that are essentially just a box of brains to process shit)) and all that good stuff should be enough to blitz through but might not hold against the Legion.

>I still don't see any reason to letting the MLA survive. They're working to empower a dark god that will kill us all, are generally terrible people, and can't provide us anything we can't get ourselves, whether it is labour or resources.
We will eliminate them when they outlive their utility of distracting the NCR, providing a source of population / resources and slowing down the BOS.


Also the Scout ship can just burn down the northern forests without any problems. Seriously just point Riddick in the right direction and call it a day.
>>
>>1787119
Well duh. That's not the point.

You know the setup time for stuff like the reactors and solar towers though, right? How we'd be splitting our time between building all that stuff because of how few manpower we have?

>I don't like buying from slave economies.
You don't have to like it. We're not buying from them, we're having them help us so they can fuck off the Divide and we get some neat shit in the process. Right?
Also we're including all of Niner's men who aren't doing shit in this, because they'd be idling while we get to business.
>>
>>1787122
We won't need that much. Just double what we have right now. Train up more officers, and extract their brains, to get the TACTs, develop seargent level variants of the securitrons and bastions and we're good to go. Maybe some arial drones.

Yeah, but this gets the MLA out our land.
>>
>>1787122
>Seriously just point Riddick in the right direction and call it a day.
>>1787098
Riddick and AXEMAN, best fire starter combo.
>>
>>1787139
Actually TACTs are meant to be squad level, although "squad" is a bit of a misnomer since I always thought they should be much larger than the human ones since the idea was that humans were the scalpel / hammer and robots the anvil. As to the drones, we've got designs that'll be ideal for anti-legion work and could begin production immediate but we need more brains for efficiencies sake.

We also need to broach the whole "wiping Legion people's brains to make the ZAX and TACTs" thing with our people, companions and scientists.

>Yeah, but this gets the MLA out our land.
Hopefully. We can make use of the tunnels as a safer way to move shit to their cities for trade.

>>1787144
>Riddick and AXEMAN, best fire starter combo.
Essentially. Also two of our best melee fighters.
>>
>>1787236
And I forgot to scroll down. I'll repost without the extra paste again.
>>
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>>1787104
"Alright, well, get us map then!"

---

"Okay, so this is what we got planned.

Our tunnel network extends roughly from the Divide to the Long 15, where we use the Road to travel to and from my base at Salt Lake City.

The NCR are attacking from the North, around the divide storms that tend to travel northwest along the mountains.

The Legion are meeting them from the South.

We were thinking of a Flanking Attack, attacking from their western flank. Of course we'd have to find them first, somehow those guys move so fast no one knows where they really are, but chances are we just have to wait until we start seeing them attack the Legion.

Of course, we were also thinking of attacking their major airbase somewhere here. We don't know exactly where it is but knocking it out would be a really big help."
>>
>>1787244

>>1787188
>>1787139
>>1787122
So I wonder, it's been confirmed in the battle that 1 of our units is equal to 10 marked men. I forget if it was the regular, hazard securitrons, bastions, or just units on average.
This ratio was also with the Marked Men having numerous advantages over us, which we quickly neutralized.
How much does that translate to the NCR?

>>1787188
>Actually TACTs are meant to be squad level, although "squad" is a bit of a misnomer since I always thought they should be much larger than the human ones since the idea was that humans were the scalpel / hammer and robots the anvil.
If I recall, because of brain concerns or other reasons, TACTs ended up to more platoon-level command, and Securitron squad-leaders would bypass the brain need.
>>
>>1787246
"Wow, that's actually pretty big."

"Which ones were the forest we considered tunneling to, and the one that was already cut-off?"
"What happens if we tried linking the two forces together?"

"How ready are your forces right now, are they still stockpiling and such? What are they doing?"
>>
>>1787274
Those forests aren't even on the map. The ones cut off are in Idaho near the Flooded City, formerly Boise, contested by the Bishop Clan. You aren't sure where the NCR's forests are.
>>
>>1787274
>"What happens if we tried linking the two forces together?"
"What a full on frontal attack? That ain't our style. Let the Legion have fun with that shit."

>"How ready are your forces right now, are they still stockpiling and such? What are they doing?"
"We're getting ready as fast as we can! Hopefully within a few months or at least the year."
>>
>>1787278
OOC Heres a thought.

Ask NCR for an embasy in the capital, build the teleporter pad in the embasy, Let the MLA Raid and loot?

If were straight fucking up the NCR and dont care if they know about it, I could see this as a oneshot.
>>
>>1787276
>>1787246
>>1787278
QM, is that you?

>>1787276
>Those forests aren't even on the map.
RIP.
>The ones cut off are in Idaho near the Flooded City, formerly Boise, contested by the Bishop Clan.
"How hotly contested is the cut-off area? How much do they need help?"

>"What a full on frontal attack? That ain't our style. Let the Legion have fun with that shit."
"No, not like that. I'm talking about surrounding them with the two forces."
"They think they're only dealing with one group of tunneling fuckers, when there's actually two or even more of tunneling fuckers right before they know it!"
"Chopping them up into even more little pieces, for an analogy."

>>1787278
>"We're getting ready as fast as we can! Hopefully within a few months or at least the year."
"Oh, what a shame. That does mean we have time while your forces are still getting ready, then."
>>
>>1787290
True. That's our trump card, really. Same would be for other factions, so it's a tough choice.
>>
>>1787246
"We know of a pre-war airbase and plane graveyard they are probably using still. We could match it up on the map and see if it checks out as the one you are talking about.

If so I can contact some of my allies and we could get a stealth team inserted to destroy shit and escape but we'd run the risk of being discovered. You'd need to compensate us for undertaking such a mission seeing as stealth assets are expensive to train and equip. Plus we risk the NCR retaliating if they find out."

>>1787253
>How much does that translate to the NCR?
The NCR have greater numbers, PA, armoured vehicles, air support, high (high) calibre automatic rifles and super soldiers.

They are fundamentally the same structure of forces however, so it at least implies we aren't tactically or strategically screwed yet.

>If I recall, because of brain concerns or other reasons, TACTs ended up to more platoon-level command, and Securitron squad-leaders would bypass the brain need.
Nah it's just a need for more of them seeing as currently all of our combat robots are controlled by 1 of them. I am advising the creation of another 39 which is a massive increase seeing as I only plan on increasing the number of bots under their command to 20 times it's current number.

This is of course ignoring the 30 air force and 15 artillery TACTs but these should mostly be capable of providing the needed computation power. Especially with the additional 10 computation hubs to brute force the issue as needed for ground troops, air forces or artillery. Admittedly this isn't accounting for non-combat robots like our construction ones but those would be a second wave sort of thing and I imagine don't require anywhere near as much raw power to perform the processing for them.
>>
>>1787294
>"How hotly contested is the cut-off area? How much do they need help?"
"For now Bishop has it under control, or so he says."

>"No, not like that. I'm talking about surrounding them with the two forces."
>"They think they're only dealing with one group of tunneling fuckers, when there's actually two or even more of tunneling fuckers right before they know it!"
>"Chopping them up into even more little pieces, for an analogy."
"That would be even better if we had some kind of air recon to know where they are, but yeah, encircling them instead of them encircling us is a great idea."
>>
>>1787305
>This is of course ignoring the 30 air force and 15 artillery TACTs but these should mostly be capable of providing the needed computation power.
To check, are these TACTs both air force or artillery, and TACTs, or are they TACTs for those types of units?

>"For now Bishop has it under control, or so he says."
"If we can free him up from there, then it means we could have him either help with the bigger objectives, or help with something on the side."
"Also we still want our people back from him, but that's for another time."

>"That would be even better if we had some kind of air recon to know where they are, but yeah, encircling them instead of them encircling us is a great idea."
"We can provide recon, but we'd be contested so we'd need help from forces like you to keep it discreet for us."
"Wouldn't want them to know about our little arrangements and try trampling over our buffer zones, now would we?"

"I've gotta ask, what's the name of your warband? Is it something fitting for your role and achievements like say, the 'Tunnel Snakes'?"
>>
>>1787362
"Well, heh, funny thing. Isn't it your fault the Flooded City fell to the NCR?"

>"We can provide recon, but we'd be contested so we'd need help from forces like you to keep it discreet for us."
"Not sure how we'd help with that but we'd try."

>"I've gotta ask, what's the name of your warband?"
"Well, I used the Fiends to get gasoline, weapons, and shit. Then we met up with the 80s and got real close. I challenged their boss to a motorcycle duel, he accepted. I uh, killed him. Completely on accident I swear, but that's how I became the new boss.

You know I sort of get why the Cult strongly discourages Warbosses having unsanctioned duels now. Bishop doesn't allow it."
>>
>>1787383
"Oh right, the name.

Yeah, most people call us the Fiendish 80s. Its a lot shorter than calling us the Fiends and the 80s"
>>
May pass out soon.

CHOOSE:
>More dialogue (offfer a solid deal, proposal?)
>Head somewhere into the city
>Leave the MLA
>>
>>1787427
>Other?
>>
>>1787383
>"Well, heh, funny thing. Isn't it your fault the Flooded City fell to the NCR?"
"Funny thing, yeah. Well we were getting paid for it and didn't know about it until we actually got there, so there's that. Fucking NCR not even giving their own allies intel."
"If you look to the NCR propaganda, they'll actually say they're the ones who won it and we were on the side, even though they were about to starve before we came along. We can turn it around just like before."
"Honestly if this happens I'd never thought I'd see the day where we'd switch sides a few times. Maybe we should get some beers for that."

>"Not sure how we'd help with that but we'd try."
"You know how you mentioned how you'd try clearing the skies a bit? When you do we can pop in with our recon for a bit and give some more juicy intel. Like their bathroom schedules."

>You know I sort of get why the Cult strongly discourages Warbosses having unsanctioned duels now. Bishop doesn't allow it."
"That's impressive, really."

>>1787395
"So what does your warband look like now?"

>>1787427
>>More dialogue (offfer a solid deal, proposal?)
>>1787004
So that's the actual decisive dialogue.
"We could use some more hands or resources, could you spare some or help us out with getting it? All we need is the resources to get our plan going."
>>
>>1787427
Im in favour of more dialogue for us to hash out a deal.

But I think im passing out as well.
>>
>>1787438
Once he answers the last question, I can hash out a deal for us.
We'll say it's tentative if you guys want to check it later and change it.
>>
>>1787427
>>>More dialogue (offfer a solid deal, proposal?)

>>1787438
>>1787443
Let's think of a the deal, so when OP comes back we have something most anons can accept.
>>
Ok guys how about we dig tunnels not just to the forrest, but under military bases, that air field Niner was talking about, towns, cities, etc. (Not so much that it will completely screw over the NCR, but to areas that are hotly contested and would damage the NCR war effort). We research some sort of radar/sonar or whatever device to locate where we are and at the same time cloak our diggers with some other stealth tech to prevent detection and then have the MLA do a simultaneous ambush on all of those locations just like that night in Vegas. Have any suggestions to add?
>>
>>1787456
We don't want to screw with the NCR too much. And that night in Vegas was a disaster and shouldn't be an example of anything.
>>
>>1787469
Yeah I know. That's why I said avoid places of super importance and just the hotly contested ones. Force the NCR to fight back for lost progress.
>>
>>1787427
>>1787438
>>1787443
>>1787450
>>1787456
>>1787469
>>1787473
Sounds good. Here's my ideas for a deal:

>>1787433
We form an informal, secret alliance with the Fiendish 80 for our purposes of bamboozling the NCR.
Once the Fiendish 80 has the means to, they are to relocate from their Divide base to one of the other designated areas for the purposes of retaining our buffer zone from the NCR and non-aggression pact for negotiations.

The Fiendish 80 helps us gather or send resources for drilling equipment that we'll give on a loan. Good ones at that.

The Fiendish 80 helps protects our borders where we're gathering resources in the meantime, to keep our arrangements discreet and avoid others from taking our loot. We'll offer the Fiendish 80 intel on threats around our gathering resources area.
The Fiendish 80, if possible, starts the anti-air and detection buildup campaign to serve as a cover for our forces once we start. Any areas they manage to secure enough we'll then augment with our own intel gathering capabilities.

We keep in contact with them on plans over secured channels.
Our recommendation to the Fiendish 80 is to relieve the forces at the Sunken City to then go elsewhere. They will do so in an ambushing or encircling offensive thanks to our aid.

We'll supply the Fiendish 80 some better gear if they then provide us with additional loot they're not using. If the Fiendish 80 helps secure for us some power generators, like the Hoover Dam, discreetly, we'll then reward them handsomely with intel and even better equipment. Equipment like actually decent armor and weapons not made up of scraps. We'll disguise said armor to look like something the Fiendish 80 could plausibly get.

If the Fiendish 80 provides us an in into the MLA and ability to cooperate with the other MLA warbands, then they can expect some more goodies.

Basically we, the PCA, will be the USA to the Fiendish 80's Britain and Legion's Russia versus the NCR's Germany.
Wait, shit. What the fuck?
>>
>>1787433
>>1787427
>>1787482
Also, most of this deal hinges on whether they can get their souls back or not. How much they're stuck with the cult and stuff.
>>
>>1787482
Just a quick post, before I go into details. Helping the MLA too much.

Now to write the longer post
>>
>>1787430
"Niner, say I am able to dig tunnels under
various important NCR installations, do you think your men can perform simultaneous raids and assaults to cause as much damage and chaos as possible like that night at Vegas? Granted I won't be able to go too far in NCR territory, but in the airbase you talked about perhaps some military bases...what do you think?"
>>
>>1787490
Probably, yeah. That's just the idea of it.
We'll cut back on support depending on how well they actually end up doing.
Most of this deal is aiming for us to get some good shit.

Personally I think the MLA only cares about the tunnels for most of the deal.
>>
>>1787496
>>1787482
Actually I think we can cut out the parts where we offer any equipment besides the loans. The intel, advice, and tunnels are what they mostly care about.
If we could, say, get them to go for the power generators and scrapyards first for us, then that might make matters easier for the rest of the deal.
>>
I have a question right now since I came into this thread. Why in the literal fuck are we negotiating with the Cthulhu worshiping band of raiders? They're gonna fuck us you know, and not in a good way.

Fucking hell it feels like we're pathetic, we have goddamn super science and we STILL CAN'T GET AHEAD. You know what? Let's summon Nodens to kill every last one of these degenerate fuckers, let not a SINGLE ONE of them live to see another day.

Jesus Christ
>>
>>1787522
Because we don't have enough resources in our industry at the moment to make enough use of it. That's about it. We just need to shovel more scrap metal and electricity at the problem.

>>1787522
>Let's summon Nodens to kill every last one of these degenerate fuckers, let not a SINGLE ONE of them live to see another day.
If we knew of a way to summon a god besides the Elder Gods, then we'd do that. As far as we know we only have psychic bullshit to work with.

How long have you been following the quest for?
>>
>>1787522
Hey Chaos, I saw you in the other thread with the horses.

To answer your question, most of us don't want to help them. It's more like don't fuck with us, and we don't fuck with you yet.
>>
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>>1787522
Nazis versus Cthulhu worshippers. Don't you want to see them fight?
>>
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>>1787537
Yes
>>
>>1787540
I feel like I should find a better way for these pasting errors.
>>
>>1787522
I don't want to, but people think we can't push them out of the divide. It would be hard, but I think we can manage it.

I prefer the Nazis over the cthullu rapists.
>>
>>1787540
>Horses? You mean the quest thread or another quest?
I didn't say the name since you know this is the fallout thread.
Loser in Westeros
>>
>>1787543
Repasted, because I don't proofread enough.

>>1787529
>Hey Chaos, I saw you in the other thread with the horses.
Horses? You mean the quest thread or another quest?

>To answer your question, most of us don't want to help them. It's more like don't fuck with us, and we don't fuck with you yet.
This is true. Also we're not dealing with the MLA in its entirety, we're dealing with one of their warbands who happens to be our bro who ended up with the MLA, somehow. So this is a bit of a special case.

>>1787537
Damn, that sounds way cooler when you put it like that. Also we have Roman revivalists on one side, and us, soon to be the Cybrans on another.
>>1787539
How much popcorn should we bring?

>>1787544
We could, just at heavy costs. It'd be better sending them somewhere else to die.
>>
>>1787547
>Loser in Westeros
Oh, that. Isn't he namefagging on multiple quests though?
>>
>>1787525

>How long have you been following the quest for?

I try to read through whole threads but just end up reading summaries. Mostly because threads are around 85-90% anons planning and the like and the other 15-10% is FQM himself.

>>1787529

So armistice? Fair enough, though the way I'm seeing it it'll be one where the both of us are paranoid about getting backstabbed and trying to do it first.

>>1787537

When you put it that way, I do now.

>>1787549

>Damn, that sounds way cooler when you put it like that. Also we have Roman revivalists on one side, and us, soon to be the Cybrans on another.

Also an alien rapist and an asshole with holograms and nigh-invincible quarantine suit wearing assholes that need to be dismembered in order to die. Also on our side are the Chinese and the Flood

>How much popcorn should we bring

As much as we can

>>1787553

I have a compulsion to show up in any quest I can
>>
>>1787553
Yes, I see his namefag everywhere. So I should say, I don't like his name. Should only be Mcsirman. But anyone can namefag his name since he doesn't have a trip
>>
>>1787559
>I try to read through whole threads but just end up reading summaries.
>I have a compulsion to show up in any quest I can
>>1784694
Ah. Good to have you here Chaos. I was wondering when you'd show up, if ever. Guess it only took 24 threads, huh?

>Mostly because threads are around 85-90% anons planning and the like and the other 15-10% is FQM himself.
Do you read the QM posts by searching for his name or ID? I'd suggest you do that if you haven't already to make binge reading easier.

>When you put it that way, I do now.
>As much as we can
Come on and watch the fight, the PCA has front row seats!

>So armistice?
Kind of. It's a non-aggression pact for the most part. We're trying to get them to relocate somewhere else that isn't where our shit is, but where our enemies' shit is.
We're also thinking of hiring them to get some shit for us, on the down low. Which is mostly just scrap metal, power generators, and fissile materials you could find in salvaging sites.

>Fair enough, though the way I'm seeing it it'll be one where the both of us are paranoid about getting backstabbed and trying to do it first.
Not necessarily, the warboss of this warband was a buddy of ours before he ended up with them, so we might just give him a great way to go out if we end up killing him.

>>1787570
A wonder, really.
>>
>>1787559
an armistice, but we're also giving them shit to go away.
>>
>1787570

It shows my devotion to the Dark Gods. But I'll just abreviate my name as a compromise

>>1787580

>Ah. Good to have you here Chaos. I was wondering when you'd show up, if ever. Guess it only took 24 threads, huh?

Kept you waiting eh? Been in them before, not for long though

>Not necessarily, the warboss of this warband was a buddy of ours before he ended up with them, so we might just give him a great way to go out if we end up killing him.

Shit can change in a few years, besides with all this I'm not sure if we should just show him the color of his brains or recreate the end of I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream on him

>>1787587

More of a bribe then
>>
Also I've come with an idea, but can we turn Cazador venom into a gas in some way?
>>
>>1787600
>It shows my devotion to the Dark Gods. But I'll just abreviate my name as a compromise
Which ones?

>Kept you waiting eh? Been in them before, not for long though
Heh, yeah. Nice to see a lurker unlurk.

>More of a bribe then
A fair bribe. They'll give us shit to then give them refined shit to go away, or they can just wait a while with thumbs up their asses.

>>1787612
Probably. We just haven't bothered with toxins yet. We've already researched 2/3 ways to deal with them safely, and only need 1/3, so we could start now.
>>
>>1787633

>Which ones?

All of them. Mainly Khorne and Slaanesh

>Heh, yeah. Nice to see a lurker unlurk.

Posted before, but not much. Mainly because my ideas for weapons would be shot down near immediately. I'm one of the anons who pushed for gassing the Legion out of Vegas
>>
>>1787642
>Mainly because my ideas for weapons would be shot down near immediately.
What weapon ideas?

>I'm one of the anons who pushed for gassing the Legion out of Vegas
I didn't voice my thoughts at the time because I was questing elsewhere.
I don't have too much of a problem with that, besides the civilian casualties involved. If it could be done on a battlefield with reasonable assurance it won't eventually affect civilians, then I'd be perfectly fine with that. Especially if we had a private cure or treatment for it.
>>
>>1787657

>What weapon ideas?

I proposed using locusts. I also have other ideas for WMDs

Bring back diseases like Smallpox and the Black Death, mix DNA together to make horrible nightmare creatures to toss at the enemy left right and center, Cazadeathclaws, have something to cause earthquakes for destroying buildings the enemy have, and my personal favorite idea for dealing with the MLA:

Give them etrophine

>
I don't have too much of a problem with that, besides the civilian casualties involved. If it could be done on a battlefield with reasonable assurance it won't eventually affect civilians, then I'd be perfectly fine with that. Especially if we had a private cure or treatment for it.

Alternate idea is copious amounts of tear gas and hallucinogenics to fuck up the enemy's perception while armies roll in and start putting down any bull in sight. I'm all for ruthless efficiency in plans, I don't take count of civilians because...well why should I? If they die, then they die
>>
>>1787633
Actually, if we get the universal replicator online, we can just break down the toxins as material.
>>
>>1787687
>I proposed using locusts. I also have other ideas for WMDs
>Bring back diseases like Smallpox and the Black Death, mix DNA together to make horrible nightmare creatures to toss at the enemy left right and center, Cazadeathclaws, have something to cause earthquakes for destroying buildings the enemy have, and my personal favorite idea for dealing with the MLA:
>Give them etrophine
So long as we actually have a way of dealing with them afterwards, and it's mostly restricted to our enemies, then I'm fine with it. So forts, battlefields, and stuff. If we don't, then a place we don't plan on visiitng for a good while.

>Alternate idea is copious amounts of tear gas and hallucinogenics to fuck up the enemy's perception while armies roll in and start putting down any bull in sight.
In civilian areas, that's perfectly fine. There's not much of a lethal effect to them. We could also use something like sleeping or laughing gas.

>I don't take count of civilians because...well why should I? If they die, then they die
Because they're civilians, we might want to integrate them later, it might be too cruel to them, or go against our ethics or reputation. There's lines even we draw.
At the very least, we give them a fair warning and acceptable means to get the hell out of dodge if we do something like this.

>>1787706
Yup. So something like that for dealing with toxins.
>>
>>1787711
Biological entities are near impossible to control.

and How does warnings work if the soldiers keep them from leaving though?
>>
Let's bring back horses, so we can be like the Huns and ride throughout the waste.
>>
>>1787717
>Biological entities are near impossible to control.
So yeah, that'd be a problem. If we can't get a treatment or cure for them that is.

>and How does warnings work if the soldiers keep them from leaving though?
Non-lethal gas, then use the soldiers that did so as fodder.
Alternatively we do more accurate lethal gassings on places we're sure has the most soldiers. At that point it's acceptable civilian casualties.
>>
>>1787522
I think the issue of balance could be solved by giving us more research actions per turn to reflect the fact that we are BigMT. Say, one for every doctor plus brains plus ZAX. This would allow development on many fronts while still limiting us by the lack of industry we have (1 building action). This would mean we could science up solutions for problems we are facing in short order, while keeping big projects, like the reactor, costly due to limited production speed, not us somehow not knowing how to make a decent reactor in under 10 years.

Also, fuck no we are not doing anything that allows the MLA to make new tunnels in which to hide when we start annihilating them. Spacedrugs are fine to trade and we would ideally get all our people back from the assholes but no large-scale support of them. Especially not digging machines.
>>
Fell asleep, catching up.


>>1787362
>To check, are these TACTs both air force or artillery, and TACTs, or are they TACTs for those types of units?
They aren't commanders of those types of units, they are those units thanks to the equipment they have mounted on to their frames.

>>1787522
Because we spent a huge amount of time securing the Divide and getting into a fight with them now would not only deny us the resources there but make us lose out on the chance to get some easy expansions, population and resources.

>>1787600
Not really, we get shit from them for the shit we are giving them, so it's not a bribe.

>>1787768
I would point out to you we could probably get a second construction action if we dedicated our auto-production, construction and civilian actions to producing them next turn. While also having our ZAX / Robotics research actions to refining the design (making it construct better), the production method (both of the robot and the factory) and shit so we can make more per turn.

Meanwhile we go with our military to continue conquering the Divide. Specifically the bit that leads to the Legion / NV region so we can get ready to invade them as well as possibly creating some sort of stealthed robots to kidnap people for de-braining.
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>>1787768
>Spacedrugs are fine to trade and we would ideally get all our people back from the assholes but no large-scale support of them. Especially not digging machines.
But we're giving them it on a loan so they'd get the fuck off the Divide. Do you have any better ideas?
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>>1787994
This. It means we have more reason to produce them, they get used when we don't need them (while earning us shit) and the MLA becomes more dependent on us.

Not to mention the benefit of digging the tunnels: we can record every tunnel we dig and thus know where most of their shit is in that regard.
>>
If you guys want more research consider what gives you free research now.

You have a free ZAX action because the ZAX's are that damn good.

You have a free robotics action because Big MT specializes in robotic, you have a robotics research factiliy and a robotics factory plus the Genius of Dr. 0 and the ZAX focus on robotics.

Think about Big MT's other strengths, compound it.

In general this works on other goals you want to. You get a return for serious investment
>>
What the fuck has happened? I read tidbits about giving the MLA driller vehicles and Niner having our missing soldier.
>>
>>1787433
>"Honestly if this happens I'd never thought I'd see the day where we'd switch sides a few times. Maybe we should get some beers for that."
"Now you're thinking like a Raider!

Don't worry though, I'm your friend. Just don't go up against the Great Elder One or try to attack the MLA seriously okay?"

>"You know how you mentioned how you'd try clearing the skies a bit?"
"I don't remember saying that mate. Hell, we have a fucking hard time running away from their bombers.

We try getting some radar vans up and a coupe of AA and fuck we even attempt to shoot em down with rockets but thats so inaccurate. Tesla Works good but thats only if they get close.

If only we had something more powerful, like a stronger power source for the Tesla and a way to direct it. Or some rockets that could track air targets."

>"So what does your warband look like now?"
"All the clans have their own specialty see? The Bishops were foot soldiers and 'gorilla' fighters, but they tried to get into using Rocket Buggies and big damn vehicles but you blew up a lot of them so they're rebuiding.

Me? I prefer the tried and true. Good old motorcycles and trucks packed with some of the baddest assholes in the wasteland. The 80s bring in the expert drivers and skills at motor fighting, the fiends bring in the killing power and hand to hand killing NCR skills they learned in the Mojave and from our raids. I use some of the skills you taught me when we were fighting together.

Plus I got some damn fine new captains who did a real favor for me, I can't tell you now, but we're cooking up something really nice for the NCR thanks to them. They're out on the job actually.

Add in some help from the Cult and whatever outcasts and assorted help we can get, a couple of deathclaws here and a few supermutants there plus some tribal assassins and we're damn good."

>"We could use some more hands or resources, could you spare some or help us out with getting it? All we need is the resources to get our plan going."
"Damn man I'm just trying to rush moving my shit through the tunnels right now.

You're the guy with the robots and the robot factory. Just build more scav robots man! Do like the Brotherhood does and build robots that make more robots on the field."
>>
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>>1788102
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>>1788102
So basically lets just give them a tunneler so they leave the divide and never associate ourselves with them again.
They are not helpful and they're continued existence is a blight on the face of the earth.
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>>1788102
>You're the guy with the robots and the robot factory. Just build more scav robots man! Do like the Brotherhood does and build robots that make more robots on the field.
Speaking of building robots on the field, those robots aren't as good as factory built robots if i recall correctly. However, before we had the robot factory we were building robots with just some replicators, is it possible to build a mobile replicator to make parts for assembly in the field?
http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Mobile_construction_vehicle_(Tiberium_Wars)
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>>1788106
"The Brotherhood have been using robots for like 80 years man. They are god damn scary good at it.

Maybe you could steal or copy some of their designs yo. My focus is on the western front, but there's some Warlords battling it out in the east."
>>
>>1788106
>>1788109
That wasn't a in-character question QM, that was for you.
>>
>>1788111
Oops.

>>1788106
Yes you can research those.
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>>1788102
>You're the guy with the robots and the robot factory. Just build more scav robots man! Do like the Brotherhood does and build robots that make more robots on the field."
"We already have that sort of shit, we just want to do it even faster. Plus we can compensate you for the metal seeing as we could turn a portion of it into weapons and shit."

>>1788105
That is foolish. We can take advantage of their existence to gain population and resources while we expand. Turning against them can happen later especially since we need to focus on industry so we can start snowballing.

Anyhow they'll be leaving the Divide once we've got the Tunneller robot rent deal settled and once we go and take care of the NCR's fuel forests, they'll start making lots of progress elsewhere and will probably leave us and our region alone for the most part. Then we can get them to charge through from here whenever we want to turn on the NCR.


>>1788109
"Speaking of copying designs, who would I need to speak to about those drugs you guys are taking? I presume you have some for combat and that we could make them?

Also a point I feel I should make: my people are great at reverse engineering and shit, so if you get some salvage that is particularly interesting or discover a pre-war military base or something I'd ask you inform me. Then I can get some people out to figure that shit out and maybe even begin production or something."
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>>1787995
Yeah.
We get them to help secure resource and power sites for us, and take their junk, we'll help get them some of the drillers on loan.

>>1788099
>I read tidbits about giving the MLA driller vehicles
Mostly to get them to fuck off, yes.
>Niner having our missing soldier.
Babysitting. Mr. Bishop from the Flooded City captured then sold them to the Cult, so we have to deal with those two groups to get them back.

>>1788102
>Just don't go up against the Great Elder One or try to attack the MLA seriously okay?"
"Is the Great Elder One a physical entity, or is he mostly ethereal or spiritual? How powerful are his cultists, like the witches?"
"We should still get your soul back though, from what we've seen with the Marked Men, it might complicate matters in the future if we're trying to keep things discreet. Like not being seen by a big psychic eyeball, and broadcasting that to everyone."
"Does the Great Elder One have the ability to monitor anyone who sells their soul to him?"

>or try to attack the MLA seriously okay?"
"Yeah. We weren't planning on doing so. We mostly just want our people back and keeping up the pretense we're not working with you folks."

>"I don't remember saying that mate. Hell, we have a fucking hard time running away from their bombers.
>>1786021
"Darn. So that was an optimistic hope, then."

>Good old motorcycles and trucks packed with some of the baddest assholes in the wasteland.
"Nice. We should try motor racing sometime."

>Do like the Brotherhood does and build robots that make more robots on the field."
>The Brotherhood is already doing what we're doing.
focking wot, m8?

>>1788105
>So basically lets just give them a tunneler so they leave the divide and never associate ourselves with them again.
Possibly, I'm leaning more heavily towards it now that we know they're not as useful as we might've thought.
>They are not helpful
Recent intel seems to point towards that direction, yeah.
>and they're continued existence is a blight on the face of the earth.
No contest there.

>>1788106
>Speaking of building robots on the field, those robots aren't as good as factory built robots if i recall correctly.
They aren't. It's mostly because of RIG'D that they're as good as they are. Junk Bots are the quick and dirty solution when we can't afford to wait.
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>>1788115
>Yes you can research those.
Alright! And they will build factory robots correct?
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>>1788121
The ZAX will start with preliminary designs.
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>>1788106
>>1788121
>>1788124
YES! Damn this would be great! Easily setting up mobile bases and infrastructure and shit. Would be perfect for the Utah and stuff.
Even better, since the Chinese are using Command & Conquer technology, and are explicitly doing so with those Chinese Bulldozers mentioned a few times, we could combine the two aspects for even better production and research. Get our buddies in on this.
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>>1788128
Now all we need is the cold / hot / mass fusion reactors and we can make it truly insane by mounting it on a medium tank sized platform. As is, I'd expect something like this to be about the size of a giant robo-scorpion. Assuming we are talking about it gathering some portion of the material as well.


Still this works very well with my long term plan of an endless robotic wave being our military's strength, to wear down our enemies through quite literally endless numbers.
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>>1788128
Yep, alright, i have a plan now.
1 Build the railway and get the second construction action.
2 Build the small reactor and dedicate it to constant metal generation, maybe build 3-6 Solar towers later for more metal generation.
3 research shit like the mobile replicator, digger bots/vehicles, psychic guns(I believe the Hubs use radiation to cleance themselves, learning how they do that and turning it into a gun would be great to fight the elder god.)
3 expand into Utah as soon as the Mobile replicator and tunneler bots are built.
>>
Also, it should be time to wake another guy from the alien cryogenics.
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>>1788134
We have digger bots already, just need to produce a bunch of them.

>>1788135
Very true, I am thinking we should grab the music looking guy so we can do more culture shit. That or the farmer in case he can improve the efficiency of our farms.
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>>1788138
>We have digger bots already, just need to produce a bunch of them.
We do? What's their description?
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>>1788139
Ignoring our mining robots, there was the model we used to tunnel to the underground river.
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>>1788141
Wasn't that just a drill? I'm talking more like those mining bots we are using to mine hexcrete materials, but combat orientated too. Plus a few Vehicles like these ones.
http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Subterranean_APC
http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Devil%27s_Tongue_subterranean_flame_tank
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>>1788145
Those would be nice in dealing with the MLA.
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>>1788148
Exactly why i wanna build them.
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>>1788102
>"Damn man I'm just trying to rush moving my shit through the tunnels right now.
"So I guess you won't be able to help much until you're ready? A shame."

>Just build more scav robots man!
"We could do that yeah, but we'd like to do it faster for the timetable you want. Extra help and that."
"While we're building the salvagers, would we able to gain your help in capturing some power generators from elsewhere? Like the Hoover Dam, Helios One, and other places? Doesn't really matter where, so long as we get it. It'll speed things up much more, and we'll only need to stay there long enough to plug ourselves in. I think that'd be more to your speed."
"Also maybe your help in capturing other salvaging sites, when we drain the Divide? In both scenarios we'd only need you to do some raids or divert their attention long enough for us to then roll in while you roll out."

>>1788128
Oh right. This reminds me, what's the Chinese doing now? They've had a lot of turns to do stuff. It doesn't seem like they've done much at the moment.

>>1788133
>>1788134
Sounds pretty good.

>>1788135
I thought we already awoke them all?
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>>1788153
The musician and the priest are still frozen. And maybe a farmer.
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>>1788153
>"Also maybe your help in capturing other salvaging sites, when we drain the Divide? In both scenarios we'd only need you to do some raids or divert their attention long enough for us to then roll in while you roll out."
Let's not do this, the Divide bases are pretty valuable and i don't want them to find out about the nukes
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>>1788160
Oh, no. I don't mean helping with draining the Divide, I mean after we drain the Divide. I want them to help us get the salvaging sites from places like the Boneyard and other junkyards.

>>1788102
>>1788153
>when we drain the Divide?
"After we drain the divide." I didn't notice that part.
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>>1788153
>"So I guess you won't be able to help much until you're ready? A shame."
"Nothing big.

Small raids, now, that's our specialty. Give us a convoy or a base to fuck and a means to get there, and we'll do what we do best."
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>>1788164
"I always wanted to try something like hitting the NCR with lots of small raids to cripple them. Blow up bridges, smash supply lines, raid warehouses, and burn down their big forest like you said. Hit em from a hundred different little places that all add up. I just wish I had more technology to make it happen."

>"While we're building the salvagers, would we able to gain your help in capturing some power generators from elsewhere?"
"I'll keep a lookout for places like that."
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>>1788145
Those would be useful but the MLA ain't planning on using the tunnelling vehicles for combat while we are renting them out to them. So such features would be wasted and cost more to develop.


Still it's something we can discuss.
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>>1788179
>Those would be useful but the MLA ain't planning on using the tunnelling vehicles for combat while we are renting them out to them. So such features would be wasted and cost more to develop.
Those are for us not for them, i don't even want to give them a tunneling vehicle but if i get outvoted please give them a cheap, downgraded one that they can't use against us.
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>>1788164
>>1788174
Okay, so I think we can work with something like this.
"So once we start expanding to hostile areas for resources, like other junkyards and power generators, and get you there, can we count on to start harassing them in advance so they're weakened when we arrived? Then cut-off from help by both of us, we deal the finishing blow while they're choking from your harassing attacks? Then we loot their shit?"
"That'll be the best way for us to work off of each other, while we're still building up. You work with the harassing speciality, we deal with the shock and finisher speciality in combat?"

"Are you okay with fighting any other faction besides the NCR and BoS, like the Legion if they happen to have stuff we want?"

>>1788160
The Fiendish 80 just sits nice and pretty, and as the other anon mentioned, doesn't get anywhere near anyplace valuable in the Divide in the meantime.

>>1788174
>"I always wanted to try something like hitting the NCR with lots of small raids to cripple them. Blow up bridges, smash supply lines, raid warehouses, and burn down their big forest like you said. Hit em from a hundred different little places that all add up. I just wish I had more technology to make it happen."
"That'd be great, but taking their shit sounds even better."

>"I'll keep a lookout for places like that."
"Thanks, mate. We'll appreciate it. If you, we might be able to dig up some more maps for that."

So when we perform our inevitable betrayal on the MLA, how big do you think our army should be?

>>1788181
>please give them a cheap, downgraded one that they can't use against us.
That's the plan. Plus it's easier for plausible deniability if it's sufficiently shitty.
Alternatively we could just give them all some really good shovels and hand-drills, if we wanted to.
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>>1788181
Fair enough we should develop something like that for personal use but currently we are talking about giving them a highly effective tunnel digger which we still control and they merely rent.

That way we can learn about their tunnel networks, distract them from attack via the Divide and get payed while doing it. Plus it subsidies the creation of more tunnelling robots until we have a need for them.
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>>1788191
>So when we perform our inevitable betrayal on the MLA, how big do you think our army should be?
It's not just about how big our army is, we must also consider how much metal we're mining and generating, what locations the enemy is occupying, what kind of robots we have and if they can properly counter the enemy.
Personally i think for the MLA we will need tunneler bots and vehicles with a focus on fighting infantry and junk vehicles supported by anti-psychich robots/weapons.
For the NCR i think we will need either mobile forces or mass numbers with a focus on anti-tank/vehicles and anti-air.
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>>1788195
>That way we can learn about their tunnel networks, distract them from attack via the Divide and get payed while doing it. Plus it subsidies the creation of more tunneling robots until we have a need for them.
Plus, we can make it a part of our agreement for tunneling intel and other stuff for helping them with something as important as this.
We're sort of forming a secret war council with the Fiendish 80, and they kind of need our help if they want to get anywhere, so we could use the insider information for better betrayals. It's like the spy shit we considered but never did, but we actually get paid this time.

>a highly effective tunnel digger which we still control and they merely rent.
As you mentioned, add override or remote controls and self-destruct options for us. Secret monitoring options and stuff.
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>>1788191
>"So once we start expanding to hostile areas for resources, like other junkyards and power generators, and get you there, can we count on to start harassing them in advance so they're weakened when we arrived? Then cut-off from help by both of us, we deal the finishing blow while they're choking from your harassing attacks? Then we loot their shit?"
"Just make sure the we part means 'we' okay mate? I gotta get something outta this too!"

>"Are you okay with fighting any other faction besides the NCR and BoS, like the Legion if they happen to have stuff we want?"
"If we can win against em and take their shit sure. I don't think attacking the Legion is a good idea though, we got a nice deal with em going on where we leave em alone and they leave us alone."

>"That'd be great, but taking their shit sounds even better."
"Don't have to tell me twice"
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>>1788223
>"Just make sure the we part means 'we' okay mate? I gotta get something outta this too!"
"True. What do you want when we loot? Personally and as a group? Alternatively if you don't want loot but stuff we make afterwards instead?"

>I don't think attacking the Legion is a good idea though, we got a nice deal with em going on where we leave em alone and they leave us alone."
"What sort of treaties does the MLA have going on? Do they have any trade ones?"

"Also, do you have any idea on how to make our involvement not seem like it's from our faction? Especially if we participate in battle?"
>>
>what do
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>>1788230
Let's leave and move on to next turn, i want to do shit.
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>>1788230
>>1788234
Can we get a secured, private connection to them so we don't have to travel all the way here next time?
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>>1788229
>"True. What do you want when we loot? Personally and as a group? Alternatively if you don't want loot but stuff we make afterwards instead?"
"Take it from experience man. You don't wanna do that shit ahead of time. Every time something comes up that ain't 'part of the deal' it always leads to trouble.

So let's decide that after we get the spoils."

>"What sort of treaties does the MLA have going on? Do they have any trade ones?"
"Sometimes.

Sometimes we trade with traders, and those traders get stuff from the Legion.

The NCR drove out a lot of the traders who refused to nationalize, they headed into Legion territory. Legion seems to treat them well I guess, let's em be free. We got a few of them with us too."

>"Also, do you have any idea on how to make our involvement not seem like it's from our faction? Especially if we participate in battle?"
"No idea mate. You were the ones with the big damn brains, maybe you can make it possible"

>>1788236
How do you intend to do it?

By underground Wire? By very long range Radio Encryption? By messenger bot?
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>>1788230
Are they pulling out of the divide to head for the forest? What is the current deal?
>>
QM, what do we need to do again to get a second construction action?
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>>1788243
You haven't negotiated one, they are staying the course.

>>1788246
Perhaps researching and building more Omni-bots, building more squads of Loaders, training more human engineers, getting an Engineerng Corps building up, more general construction vehicles, stuff like that.

You can delegate such tasks to the ZAX as a ZAX action or a civ/construction action.
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>>1788249
What are the metal prices for a Omibot and the Loader squads?
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>>1788223
Tell Niner to get the word out that we'd be willing to trade for any robot wrecks from BoS. We can offer drugs and weapons, maybe some special custom jobs too.

"Who else besides MLA is Brotherhood at war with?"

"Niner, you say that MLA is the go to place for the refugees, right? Is there a place where majority of them gather? Could I recruit them? I prefer normal folk, farmers and such, and educated people.
Barring that, I'd trade for slaves. Even if cult provides with some potent stuff, I think Jet would be still in demand, right?"
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>>1788251
Typically I have you use up a resource stockpile level to produce the most amount of robots with it based on your overall ability to produce.

If you wish to put your facilities into overdrive and don't care about depleting your stockpile immediately to produce vast sums of robots, say so.
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>>1788256
>maybe some special custom jobs too
What are custom jobs?
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>>1788230
Ask Niner for a map showing the current borders of MLA
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>>1788242
>>1788243
>>1788249
They're mostly getting ready for war. This means they won't be ready for a half year to a year, which is about 5-10 turns.

We'll have a secret alliance with the Fiendish 80, where we act as mercenaries or contractors to each other depending on the situation.

We can offer to act as a disposal and cleanup crew, like for biohazard sites, handling trash, and junkyards. God knows they need it from looking at their settlements. Either we do this as a service or we get paid a bit for dealing with their shit. Or in turn we just ask for the Fiendish 80 to keep us informed and have some minor favors to call upon.

We'll exchange intel with each other, they keep us an in with the MLA so we can get our people back from the MLA, give us general information on the factions, and let us trade some stuff. We'll give some more specific intel like battle plans when appropriate, or when we feel like the Fiendish 80 needs it.

We'll give them a tunneling machine or handheld tunneling equipment to anywhere that isn't our borders or the Divide, or places we might end up claiming later like Utah which we'll mention to the Fiendish 80.
For now, we'll tell them to go to the forests we talked about earlier.

Separately, we'll then check up on the NCR, Legion, and other factions for salvage and power generation sites. If, for whatever reason they won't agree to our terms and we decide we want it, we'll give a call to the Fiendish 80 to ready for some raids on that territory later so we can claim it afterwards.

We'll adjust our support for them as we feel is needed, mostly to maintain the balance of power. We can make some excuses and stuff about difficulties if we have to drop support. Beyond that we'll mostly leave each other alone.

>>1788256
>We can offer drugs and weapons, maybe some special custom jobs too.
He probably means custom items or weapons. Like Big Iron.
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>>1788260
For example upgrading weapons, armor, vehicles. Giving basic implants.

People coming with the wrecks will likely be individuals, so we ought to think what an 'adventurer' will want. Like, what did we deem important before we decided to found a nation.
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>>1788269
>Like, what did we deem important before we decided to found a nation.
Take all the custom and unique shit. Like Big Iron.
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>>1788269
Fuck no, no giving tech or implants.
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>>1788267
Concerning tunneling machines, we shouldn't give them tunneler bots. What we could do is to produce man operated machinery. Perhaps even make it deliberately look like it's scavenged...... Wait this gives me idea, just have riggd produce them from shit laying around.
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>>1788269
Just give them drugs. Like lots of fentanyl. If they overdose and kill themselves on it, no skin off our back.
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>>1788262
"Thats pretty hard to do. The Clans mostly govern their own territory. I can give you a rough outline, but nothing very specific."

>>1788256
"Brotherhood only cares about us, since a lot of our people are refugee's from them.

Hah. You think 'normal' folk tend to join us? No, 'normal' folk are like sheep that the Brotherhood and the NCR like to put blindfolds over.

We get Tribals, we get Criminals, we get Freebooters and Mutants and Ghouls and all sorts. You know why?

Because we're the most free faction out there. Not bound by NCR's laws or the Legion's Caesar but by the truest rule of nature, the one that governed all life since the beginning: rule of the strong!

Even all the others acknowledge it. The NCR calls it 'Right of Conquest', the Legion call it 'Pax per Bellum', the Brotherhood call it a 'Crusade'. They understand, but refute the truth. They're just a bunch of hypocrites that way.

Course, we often get those types as slaves whenever we raid the NCR or what.

Drugs I got plenty of, its weapons I need now. Good weapons. If you can get me some fancy weapons I'd request, I'll trade you for slaves and good robot bits."
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>>1788272
They are just basic implants widely available. No one said about giving tech, read better
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>>1788273
>>1788191
Yep. That's the plan. We want plausible deniability for both sides on where we got this equipment from, so make it the shittiest techy thing for the job.
Of course not tunneler bots, anything we can easily reign our control on and would plausibly be something a Raider could get.

>>1788267
>We'll give them a tunneling machine or handheld tunneling equipment to To clarify. That's on loan until they get off from our borders. It's still much better than what they'd have otherwise.
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>>1788278
We don't even know if they have access to these widely available implants, probably just junk implants that are inferior even to those basic ones, which means we are upgrading their cybernetics.
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>>1788278
Upgraded weapons, armour and vehicles are tech. We don't want to help these assholes any more than we need to.

>>1788275
So their basically just anarchists.
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>>1788275
"Oh and um, hey, bit of an awkward question but.

What happened to B- er, your Officers Brain? The docs said she didn't have one, just some melted piece of tech.

Can you like, do that to other slaves? That would be very popular here. I think we could pay for that."
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>>1788285
What do you mean its melted?
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>>1788285
"We took her brain."
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>>1788280
>>>1788267 (You)
>We'll give them a tunneling machine or handheld tunneling equipment to
To clarify. That's on loan until they get off from our borders. It's still much better than what they

Huh. It looked separated at the 4chan comment box.

>>1788275
>"Thats pretty hard to do. The Clans mostly govern their own territory. I can give you a rough outline, but nothing very specific."
"Better than nothing. We'd like to at least know if we might end up stepping on toes."

"What do you think about our faction?"

>>1788282
>So their basically just anarchists.
The worst kind, yeah.
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>>1788289
"Oh. Really? Well, can you take some other slaves Brains then?"

>>1788288
"Like, it got zapped and got melted, also burned up a little bit of her brain that was left in there too.

Made her act kind of like an Animal, so the Cult trained her."
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>>1788293
No.
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>>1788293
>"Oh. Really? Well, can you take some other slaves Brains then?"
"No, and i don't want to explain why."
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>>1788293
That explains a lot.
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>>1788275
What kind of guns do you need then?

"Come on Niner, I refuse to believe that 100% of people here are people like you and me. Don't you at least have some smart folks I could try to sway? Like doctors, mad scientists, mechanics. Maybe entertainers and people who manage them?"
>>
>>1788293
>"Oh. Really? Well, can you take some other slaves Brains then?"
"Sorry bud, but we only do this voluntarily. Also not for reasons you might think."

>"Like, it got zapped and got melted, also burned up a little bit of her brain that was left in there too.
>Made her act kind of like an Animal, so the Cult trained her."
"Huh. That explains things a bit. I thought she was abused until she ended up like that for a bit."
>>
>>1788297
>>1788296
"Oh. Okay then.

I hear the Bishops and a few of the other Clans are gonna try it out. I was hoping if you knew how we'd be the first ones, give us a lot of pull in with the other clans."
>>
>>1788302
"They're going to likely horrendously fail unless it's us. It's harder than you think."
>>
>>1788300
Why are we trying to acquire Mengeles? That' just going to piss our scientists off.
>>
>>1788293
Your looking for slaves that act like animals. I already have a good bit of those (the lobotomites) would you be interested in trading them for normal slaves that dont belong to the cult once this oath is released from me?
>>
>>1788300
"Hmmmm. I got some mad scientists around, couple of mad surgeons, mechanics and the like, they all call themselves 'mad' because that's what the NCR labeled them as.

But I need those guys man."

>>1788306
"That'd be nice. Yeah, I could use some. Get a head start on that research myself!"
>>
>>1788308
>>1788306
Ah... No. Let's not give them the means to do that.

We're only doing the voluntary, successful one. Not the destroy their brains one.
>>
>>1788304
"I dunno man. Somehow I hear Bishop is making it work. But maybe you're right."
>>
>>1788293
Oh... She was basically dead anyway then.

Why would that be popular?

>>1788296
>>1788297
Why not? We get free brains, they get mindless lobotomites
>>
>>1788306
Make sure to keep some lobotomites so we can transfer the Think tank brains into them and make them sane.
>>
>>1788306
No. Lets not help the MLA streamline their enslavement process.
>>
>>1788312
That doesn't work. Brains can only be connected to their original body.
>>
>>1788309
>>1788313
I'll join in on this no.
>>
>>1788311
We don't want to make them get completely animalistic slaves, we want ones we can eventually buy or free. Also it's just plain horrendous.

>Why would that be popular?
They're having human sex dolls, that's what they want.

>>1788313
Yeah.
>>
>>1788315
I though QM said we could.
Can you clarify QM?
>>
>>1788312
>>1788315
[INT 10] Though you think there may be a workaround. That or you just need more neuro research.
>>
>>1788318
If we can attach a brain to any body, we would have done so, no?
>>
>>1788308
"But can you get the word out to other MLA territories that I seek that kind of people. Like a recruitment ad?
You MLA folks are proud to be free, right? Let them choose themselves if they want to join.

Speaking of which. Do you know anything about the followers of the apocalypse?

Also, what kind of weapons are you looking for? "
>>
>>1788324
Recruiting MLA scientists is recruiting sadists and scumbags. Not worth it, and our followers would hate them.
>>
>>1788319
Do we need separate lab for that?
>>
>>1788322
>>1788319
So we apparently can, we just haven't gotten far enough yet.

>>1788311
>Why not? We get free brains, they get mindless lobotomites
>>1788317
We want to get free brains and people, not free brains and mindless lobotomites is the thing.

>>1788293
>>1788302
>>1788308
>>1788310
>>1788301
"To clarify. What sort of lobotomites do the MLA like Bishop want? What inspired them to want them?"
>>
>>1788324
"I'll see what I can do. You'll probably have to pay better than what the other clans are offering, they aren't keen on giving up some good smarties."

>"Do you know anything about the followers of the apocalypse?"
"I hear that a couple of them joined up with the MLA. Or were captured. Not sure which.

I think some of them were angry at the NCR and swore revenge. Others were captured in raids. Don't have any with me though."
>>
>>1788327
We will vet them first, of course. Some of them could be just folks not agreeing with NCR or BoS policy
>>
>>1788331
Reeeeee

WHAT KIND OF WEAPONS DO YOU WANT FOR TRADING SLAVES NINER
>>
>>1788330
"'Lobotomite' is that what they are called?

Well, there's two reasons. Or well, a couple really.

The first one is they fuck like animals. Now that's pretty hot, er, no offense. So it turns out a lot of people are into that, especially if they can do it to some pretty slaves they capture. Or as a means of punishment or revenge.

The other I think some of the clans feel like there's some combat tactics that can be applied here. They wanna make an army of 'crazies' that know no fear and fight like lunatics. Train em like attack dogs or maybe strap some bombs onto them.

Could make anyone into a crazy, even people who were shit at fighting or as slaves before."
>>
>>1788341
Yeah, no.
>>
>>1788324
>"Also, what kind of weapons are you looking for?"
"Anything that can fight Armor, Robots or Airplanes. Especially that last bit.

Would love to get a way to produce some kind of plane or tank tracking missile that a guy can fire. The Mechanics can make a few, but not nearly enough that we need.

A big energy weapon to shoot em out of the sky, now that would be perfect!"
>>
>>1788341
>Could make anyone into a crazy, even people who were shit at fighting or as slaves before.
>>1788336
And this is why we don't give them lobotomites anon.
Funny that i was thinking of doing the same thing to them when we go to war against them.
>>
>>1788348
Let's not give him any of that sort.
Just the tunneling equipment and drugs.
>>
>>1788341
>"'Lobotomite' is that what they are called?
"You could just call them debrained slaves, same thing."

Okay, fuck this. We're NOT going to give them this. Fuck any MLA who tries to forces us to. That's the sort of shit I draw the line at.

>>1788348
"Do you guys have any robots, junk robots, or recreational bots in your forces?"

>>1788352
>Funny that i was thinking of doing the same thing to them when we go to war against them.
This is what mad science does to you.
>>
>>1788348
>A big energy weapon to shoot em out of the sky, now that would be perfect!"
They're asking for a LAER, we are definitely not giving them that.
>>
>>1788358
>This is what mad science does to you.
Truly i have earned to be a part of the Think tank.
>>
>>1788348
>The Mechanics can make a few, but not nearly enough that we need.

Give me a sample of it and I'll see what I can do

[if we make these for them, we will make sure the tracking software cannot be used agains us]
>>
>>1788369
No, they have their own Mechanics/scientists that can disable that software so it's pointless.
>>
>>1788369
>>1788375
Solution: Add a Berserker virus that activates if they try to tamper with it.
>>
>>1788378
And give them access to berserk programing?
>>
We should visit slave pits and buy some slaves before leaving.

Also guys, we should get rid of bottlecaps, they are rapidly becoming useless
>>
>>1788383
Only in the NCR. Bottlecaps currently have value all across the Wasteland. We have no reason to dump them.
>>
>>1788383
Actually i'd rather keep them or make a special version for replicator use, since i recall some anons are planing to make civilian replicators and i like the idea.
>>
>>1788382
It'll self-destruct all the devices in a firey explosion before they can try.
>>1788364
We should get the Think Tank to come up with a Rube Goldberg plan.

Alternatively, just add a self-destruct feature if they tamper with it that also explodes any loaded munitions. Then add a small tracking beacon or remote control option for us to keep watch of.
>>
>>1788375
You really think they have people or facilities capable of cracking software made at big Mt with the help of ZAX?

And like the other guy said just add a failsafe that will blow up the missile.

Also make encryptions unique for each missile, so if they manage to crack one somehow, they won't be able to do that to any others
>>
>>1788394
>It'll self-destruct all the devices in a firey explosion before they can try.
You fool, do you not understand the MLA has MAD scientists? They'll find a way to prevent the self destruct.
They'll find a way.
>>
>>1788394
Or we can just not give them tech. That;s both easier and removes all the risk of screwing ourselves.
>>
>>1788402
Are you implying we go for the simpler solution? What do you take us for?

>>1788401
Clearly we should recruit them in that case, or give a special thank-you gift.
>>
>>1788369
"Here. This is a pristine version, this one can be carried by a man.

The Gun Runners make these. They mostly operate in the Legion, but we buy a few.

The mechanics tried to study how it works and managed to make a bigger bulkier kind using a lot of parts and jurry rigging. That version is so heavy only a Super Mutant can carry that so we also load it on trucks too or have several guys carry it."

He hands you what appears to be an Old World missile launcher, still with its American logo on it, but quite advanced. More than the normal missile launcher.
>>
>>1788272
All of our implants are pre-war grade currently. Chances are the MLA has a few people that can install them and shit.

The real benefit of us is having someone educated to the same degree as a pre-war doctor (if not better), working using clean medical equipment in a sterile operating theatre and that you'll be able to recover there and shit. Rather than some drugged out bone-saw wielding "doctor".

>>1788273
That is pointless. The reason we want to supply robots is because we can observe through them and the reason they'd want them is because they'd be more productive.

As to making them look scavenged. Just make them look pre-war and they'll assume the MLA scavenged them.

>>1788275
>Drugs I got plenty of, its weapons I need now. Good weapons. If you can get me some fancy weapons I'd request, I'll trade you for slaves and good robot bits."
"How about a Gatling laser that carries a Tesla effect?"

>>1788293
>"Like, it got zapped and got melted, also burned up a little bit of her brain that was left in there too."
Seems like we might be able to restore her after all, assuming we get her back.

>>1788394
>>1788399
Alternatively we just trust them to expend them against the NCR as fast as we sell them to the MLA. Since they'd have no reason not to use them and we can cut supply at any moment in time.
>>
>>1788331
What does Niner think of this plan:
>>1786836
>>
>>1788402
We're not giving the tech. They already have access to tracking missiles and can produce their own. They just don't have enough production capabilities.
>>
>>1788405
"Can we keep this missile launcher?"
This would be great for some vehicles i have in mind if we can add the ammo replication upgrade and a guidance system.
>>1788407
FUCK YOU WE ARE NOT GIVING THEM LAERS!
>>
Are you kidding me?? The fucking MLA now has lobotomization tech? Something IRL is projected to appear no sooner than next century. This is mind boggling. We are supposed to be the science powerhouse and some goddam idiots in fucking caves are doing it (or getting close). There may be whatever mad scientist they have but considering the fact that the brain removal process is something the old world had difficulty with (robobrain facility in F4, general lack of brains in jars where the body is still alive) I find it mindboggling.
>>
>>1788407
We're not giving them Weapons technology, especially not LAER weapons.
>>
>>1788411
Now you have a point if we just build the ones they already have and sell it to them, no upgrades from us.
>>
>>1788408
>>1788267
I was proposing something like that.

>>1788414
>We are supposed to be the science powerhouse and some goddam idiots in fucking caves are doing it (or getting close).
Clearly there's a mad Tony Stark amongst them.

>>1788411
Yeah, build things they already have in alrger quantities.
>>
>>1788414
>You
You yourself strongly doubt the MLA has super science anything. Everything is very crude here.

You do feel RIG'D would be happy here.

[INT 8]
Unless they've managed to kidnap some very intelligent scientists or found a ZAX or similarly fancy facility, it would be utterly impossible.

Or perhps they found a non-scientific way to do it, like mutation. Or psykers.
>>
>>1788405
Sweet. Free stuff.

>>1788407
>Alternatively we just trust them to expend them against the NCR as fast as we sell them to the MLA. Since they'd have no reason not to use them and we can cut supply at any moment in time.


Also this. Sometimes anon's paranoia is so fucking weird.
>>
>>1788427
I don't trust the anarchist satanists at all.
>>
>>1788405
"Can we also look at the bulkier version? That might be easier to mass produce."
Pretty neat we got them.
>>
>>1788421
>Clearly there's a mad Tony Stark amongst them.
Was considering making that pun. :)
>>
>>1788413
>>1788416
I know but I just want to see what he'd offer for something like that.

Also the fact we have no other advanced weapons worth mentioning to him since giving him Zetan technology is a terrible idea. Seriously if we'd done a bit more weapons research this'd be less of a problem thanks to the variety we'd have to offer.
>>
>>1788429
He gives you something much bigger and bulkier.

It's a big tube you could fit your head in, and there is literally a Computer Terminal welded to its side. Its definitely much bigger than the average man can carry, your own troops would find it bulky and a burden but would be capable of firing it.

The missile itself is a common missile with extra fuel cannisters attached to it, and quite surprisingly, something that looks like a very crude Pip-Boy.

"Took the mechanics ages to figure out how to make it work. Well, sometimes it works at least. They found a Robco Factory that makes pip-boys but they're like this super old kind that's shit for traveling, but they work great for guiding missiles using their map and altitude feature."
>>
>>1788439
Didn't we get a bunch of weapons from texas?
>>
>>1788405
>pic
>>1788428
This image makes me wonder, is the MLA the equivalent to ISIS?

>>1788427
>Sweet. Free stuff.
Yep. Maybe we should do the same for other weapons.

>Also this. Sometimes anon's paranoia is so fucking weird.
So long as it's stuff they could already make, it's fine.

>>1788439
We can still give him copies of quality conventional weapons but in high amounts.

>>1788444
Texas?

>>1788443
>They found a Robco Factory that makes pip-boys but they're like this super old kind that's shit for traveling, but they work great for guiding missiles using their map and altitude feature."
What the fuck, they found a GPS cache?

"Can we take both of these back to see which of these would be easier for us to mass produce? Then return with a deal?"
"How much of the pre-war or crude guiding missile launchers and guided missiles would you want? How much could you offer for that amount?"
>>
>>1788455
[Speech 60]

"Heh, we're friends mate. I'll give you these two as long as you need, just like old times.

But the rest I really need badly. I don't think I can just give away more. Maybe if I had a different way to target the skies."
>>
>>1788455
>Texas?
Yes, texas, the place with plant cultists and where we found Cain.
>>
>>1788455
Yes. But also, they are worse than ISIS.
>>
>>1788455
He doesn't need nor want conventional weapons. He wants good shit, specialised high power weapons.
>>
>>1786836
>I like the idea of striking a deal with the MLA to have them attack from a different position or somewhere the doesn't lead directly to us
"Well, if you can think of a better position tell me. This divide is perfect, hides us well, and we can choose to strike at the NCR's spearhead or their airfield. Maybe even both!

But find us a better route, and I'll consider it."
>>
>>1788458
>But the rest I really need badly. I don't think I can just give away more. Maybe if I had a different way to target the skies."
"That's fine. Thanks, this'll make matters easier."
>"How much of the pre-war or crude guiding missile launchers and guided missiles would you want? How much could you offer for that amount?"
"If we were to reverse-engineer those two then make some more copies to sell? What would you be willing to offer for more guided missile launchers and missiles?"

>>1788461
Oh that. I actually don't remember what we looted from that place before we left. I think the ZAX AIs and some other stuff.

>>1788308
>But I need those guys man."
"To keep things running, right? We could take them in exchange for offering our services, depending if those mad folk would work well with us."

>>1788464
Must be a new record.
>>
>>1788471
Before we found the ZAX AIs we found the BoS bunker with cain in it and some weapons.

Can we move on to next turn already?
>>
>>1788469
>>1788267
What would the Fiendish 80 think of this? The ones that we'd say in character that is.

Anyone else's thoughts on it?
>>1788482
I was waiting for some others to put their input on a proposal to the MLA.

>>1788242
>By underground Wire? By very long range Radio Encryption? By messenger bot?
Do they have any radios? We could just do the radio way.
>>
>>1788482
Ready whenever you guys are. Just say so.

>>1788487
If you want to use an encrypted radio you'll need to spend an action. Or you can just use low level encryption for free.

>"What would you be willing to offer for more guided missile launchers and missiles?"
"Oh HELL yes, you get me more of those I'll get you something nice.

What is it you want again? Slaves right?"
>>
>>1788489
Let's move on to next turn.
>>
>>1788489
>Ready whenever you guys are. Just say so.
So let's give him a proposal for now, or means to contact him again and then I think we're done here.

>If you want to use an encrypted radio you'll need to spend an action. Or you can just use low level encryption for free.
Messenger bots it is then.

>What is it you want again? Slaves right?"
Good slaves, mostly smart ones. Also tech or salvage.

>>1788491
Yeah, I think we got enough. I guess we'll return to get our people back in a bit.
>>
>>1788489
>What is it you want again? Slaves right?"
Slaves specifically educated ones, metal, fissile, tech scraps. More or less anything that can be used to make robots, develop new tech and shit.
>>
>>1788498
>"Good slaves, mostly smart ones. Also tech or salvage."
"You got it! Just get me my missiles, and I'll see what I can do."

Okay, writing the next turn.
>>
>>1788504
>"You got it! Just get me my missiles, and I'll see what I can do."
>inb4 we trade him a missile launcher and he shows up with a bunch of toilets.
>>
>>1788506
Have some faith, any how we can refuse to exchange if it comes down to it.
>>
We should definitely scout around when we get back to find a alternative route for the MLA to take.
>>
Hey QM, did we conquer our fear of heights after climbing out of that elevator shaft?
>>
>>1788524
A tiny bit.

You still hate flying, and falling is worse.
>>
>>1788489
It takes a MONTH for BigMT to come up with an encrypted signal that the NCR bozos wouldnt crack quickly? What even??
>>
>>1788537
What is "The NCR has a ZAX."?
>>
>>1788532
So what's it like for the Courier every time he flies or goes sky diving?

>>1788537
Truly the NCR are peerless geniuses.
>>
>>1788537
Well the safest thing to do would also be to produce and send the radios as well, with special self-destruct features and high level encryption.

Still even your low level stuff is good enough that someone like the the Legion or the MLA are probably never going to crack it. It's people like the BoS and the NCR you might be concerned of. Or the Enclave.

>>1788544
There is also this to consider
>>
>>1788504
I'd like to visit slave pits tho
>>
>>1788545
>sky diving
You wot.

No way hose.

Nope. No. Nada.

No sir, not getting out of this cockpit
>>
>>1788522
Well they could attack from the Glow were it not so very far away.


Honestly, with these guided missiles and possibly some other shit as needed, the MLA odd to hold the line against the NCR or even start winning.


One idea: we should see if the Chinese have the design of a SPAAG or such in their systems and how easily we could make a robot version. Then we could contract ourselves out as AA for the MLA or sell them some. If we limit the RADAR system's ability to detect small craft (if they ask, it makes it easier to produce and the NCR lack such small things to watch for), it would fail to detect our drones if we were to turn against them.

Another would be to get them would be some APC's or just start mass producing motorbikes for them. That way they can launch more assaults and generally be more mobile.


>>1788537
I can think of a solution: we use a language they wouldn't know. We should check if the Chinese know Korean or anything of the sort since the number of people who'd know it is low. Which would render it unintelligible even if the actual encryption was cracked.
>>
>>1788550
We'll get them after we get our people back.
>>
>>1788550
Dammit.
>>