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War, war never changes.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=Fallout%2C+Civ%2C+Courier%2C+New+Vegas%2C+Enclave%2C+America

Last Thread
>>1701193

You are the Courier. Leader of the Pheonix Commonwealth of America, and like its predecessor, you are an enclave among other empires that surround you, building and biding your strength and time until you can at last spread your wings and take back the nation you know is destined to be yours.

You have made contact with other empires, and have begun making footholds in far off lands, while you build up your robotic forces in preparation for war.
>>
The combination Geothermal and Breeder Reactor has been discovered, and is cleared.

There is a large amount of nuclear waste which is just fissionable enough to add a MASSIVE stockpile to your Fissile Materials!

---

Alert: Janith Kindergarten, your old World Cook, has come with a request. She would like to know if you could use your miracle science to clone what she calls "chickens" for eggs. Chickens went extinct during the war.
>>
>>>>>Food: Average (Rising) [CAP: Average]
Passive Booze Ration: Low (higher for soldiers)
>>>>>Water: Average (Stable) [CAP: Average]
>>>>>Medicine: Above Average (Stable)
>>>>>>Materials: Scrap Metal (Average) Fissile (HUGE+++)
Scrap Wood (tiny)
Special Electronics (---) Hygiene Supplies (Abundant) Booze (---) [Falling] Alien Tech Scraps (low) Hexcrete Bags (Above Average)
Plant Material (Tiny)
Trona Minerals (Low)
>>>>>Fuel: Airplane Fuel (Low) Ethanol (uses Food)
>>>>>Total Pop: 252 Humans (and companions) +55 Infants +40 Mutants/Nightkin, 2 Ghoul
>>>>>Total Armaments (proportionate to the total pop) Below Average
>>>>>>Weapons: Type (Subtype, Amount, Condition)
(Mercenary) - Moderate
-Energy Firearms
(Human Plasma/Laser) - Below Average
(Alien) - Below Average
(Chinese Alien-Jurry Rigged) - Below Average
>>>>>>Ammunition Reserve: Conventional (Below Average) Energy (Moderate)
>>>>>>Armor/Uniforms:
(OW American Infantry Armor, Moderate, Intact)
(OW American Infantry Uniforms, Moderate, Intact)
(7 Alien Bounty Hunter Armor)
(7 Alien Bounty Hunter Big Rifles)
(35 Dr. Mobius Scrubs + Dr. Mobius Glasses)
>>
>OUTPOSTS<
--CHINA RANCH--
++Outpost++
>>>>>Military: 25 Securitrons MKV. 5 Spy-Eye Bots Squads
>>>>> Infrastructure: Ruined buildings. Digital Radio Tower.
>>>>> Power: Big Alien Battery
>>>>>Defenses: Ruined Houses. MAXIMUM SURVEILANCE
>>>>>Animals:

!NEW!
--TRONA---
++Outpost++
>>>>>Military: 25 Securitrons MKV 5 Spy-Eye Bots Squads
>>>>> Infrastructure: Ruined buildings. Digital Radio Tower. Highway to BigMT
>>>>> Power: Big Alien Battery
>>>>>Defenses: Ruined Houses. MAXIMUM SURVEILANCE
>>>>>Animals:

---NEWBERRY SPRINGS---
++BigMT Outpost++
>>>>>Military: 25 Securitrons MK5 5 Spy-Eye Bots Squads
>>>>> Infrastructure: Houses. Lake. Hemp Farm (Small). Banana Yucata (Medium) Spice Farm (tiny). Water Pump to BigMT. Electrical Wires to BigMT
>>>>> Power: Borrowed from BIgMT.
>>>>>Defenses: Ruined Houses. *Nat100* Robot Defenses.
>>>>>Animals:
>>>>>Other: Omni-Agronator!

---THE TWIN MINES (West+South)---
>>>>>Military: None
>>>>> Infrastructure: Railroads. Open Pit Quarry.
>>>>>Defenses: Mountain
>>>>>Animals:
>>>>>Other:
>>
---THE CRATER---
>>>>>Morale: Above Average (Stable)
Permanent:
Patriotism (Below Average- Phoenix Commonwealth)
!NEW!
Military Pride (Below Moderate)
>>>>>Current Pop:
31 Human
20 Infants
1 Ghoul
>>>>>Garrison:
5 Devils Brigade - Power Armor
20 Couriers Companions - Arcade, Doc Delilah, Cass, Raul, Veronica, ED-E, Rusty, Wendy Gilbert, Hazel, Desmond Harper, Vanessa, Joana, AXE MAN, Milton+Hans, Sonia, Riddick, Dean Domino, Couripor, Mary-Jo Casey, Cain
+1 Super Heavy Omni-Constructor
+10 MKV Hazard-Salvager Securitron
+10 Sentry Shield-Juggernaut Minigunners
+33 Securitrons MKV
+60 Small Flyer Repairbots
1 GIANT ROBO SCORPION
+50 Spy-Eye Bots
>>>>>Prisoner: None
>>>>> Infrastructure: Higgs Village Warehouse [6 Intact Homes w/{Toilets, Air Condition}, Indoor living area. Raul’s Shack. Follower Hospital. 5 Box Cars. Latrines. Plumbing Water. Heated Water. Indoor Ventilation.) The DOME. The SINK (BigMT Command Center. The THINK TANK). The FORBIDDEN ZONE. . Boom Town Shooting Course Lobotomite Pleasure House (Primitive). Constrution Site (Small). Y-0 Research Center. Scrap Performance Stage. X-2 Transmitter Array. Hemp Farm.
Chinese War Factory
Chemical Mill (Small)
Concrete Military HQ/Barracks + Intelligence Center - James Bond. General Kreger.
Magneto Hydraulics Plant Robotics Facility
Cass' Multipurpose Ethanol/Alcohol Distillery (Tiny)
X-12 Biological Research Plant (Small)
Automated Hexcrete Plant (Small)
Securitron Deconstructino Plant / General Robotics Research Facility (Small)
X-13 Research Factility / Medical VR University (Small)
X-2 Antennae Transmitter Array - Mr. New Vegas. Ms. New Washington
Doppler Radar
Large Scale Replicator
AUTOMATED ROBOT FACTORY
>>>>>Defenses: Radar Fence/Mountain Range. Laser Turrets (Few)
Watch Towers. MAXIMUM SURVEILANCE
>>>>>Vehicles: 1 Riddick’s Charge Co. Dodger. 1 Giant Crane (Ruined) 1 Alien Scoutship (INTACT)
>>>>>>Power: Electricity (HUGE). BigMT Underground Reactors
>>>>>>Other
+The THINK TANK
+Dr. MOBIUS
+Unity
+Julia Farkas
+Arcade Ganon
+Jacob Miles
+Tony Gam
+Janith Kindergarten
+20 Researchers (Followers of the Apocalypse)
+10 Experienced Combat Medics/Researchers [OW American Infantry Armor] (Plasma/Laser) {Veterans} {Augmented!}
+45 Assorted Research Robots (normal)
+55 Captured Female Lobotomites
+67 Captured Male Lobotomites.
+20 Construction Bots
+10 VR Life Support Pods (debrained Version)
>>
>---NEW WASHINGTON---
>>>>>>Morale: Above Average (Slowly Falling)
>Permanent: Patriotism (Below Average- Phoenix Commonwealth)
>>>>>>Armaments: Average
>>>>>>Current Pop:
>203 Human
>35 Infants
>+40 Super Mutants/Nightkin

>>>>>>Garrison:
>1 Couriers Companions – Doc Mitchel
>+10 Mr. Orderly Robots
>+2 Experienced Higher Officers (Urban Veteran) [OW American Infantry Armor] (Plasma/Laser) {Experienced Veterans} {Augmented!}
40 Child Soldiers “Freeside Rats” (Various)
+20 Super Mutants
+20 NightKin
+156 Securitrons MKV Hazard Bot
+(Plentiful) Spy-Eye Bots

Squads:
>General Infantry Squad: (6 Regular Infantry, 1 Experienced Soldier "NCO", 1 Trained Regular Officer)
>Traits:[OW American Infantry Armor] (Weapons:Plasma/Laser) {Experienced Veteran Leaders}{Veteran Infantry} {Augmented!}
8 Squads [8/8]

>Garrison Infantry Squad: (Assorted infantry)
>Traits:[OW American Infantry Armor] (Weapons:Plasma/Laser){Veteran} {Augmented!}
2 Squads [8/8] [7/7]

>1 Command Platoon:
>Traits:[OW American Infantry Armor] (Weapons:Plasma/Laser) {Experienced Veteran Leaders}{Veteran Infantry} {Augmented!} **Command Unit**
+1 TACT bot {Combat Veteran}
+2 Experienced Higher Officers (Urban Veteran)
+8 Experienced Regular Infantry
+5 Mr. Orderly Robots
+Doc Doc Orderly MD PHD DDS

>>>>>Prisoner: None
1 Presidental Manor
100 Hexcrete Hex Houses (Indoor plumbing/Shower, electricity)
Asphault Roads. Sewer System. Night Lamps.
Desert Landscaping
Spring Well. Clean Water Tank (Intact)
Banana Yucca Farm (Large)
Cotton Farm (Medium)
Concrete School House (Tiny)
Glass Mill (Small)
Public Washing Machines.
Water Treatment/Fertilizer Plant
(Small) Bar + Cafeteria + Kitchen + Janith's Equipment
Solar Collector Tower Station (Small)
>>>>>Defenses: Disease Quarantine Measures (Primitive)
>>>>>Vehicles: 1 Vertibird, 1 Fuel Economic Fuel Semi Truck, 7 Tracked Construction Vehicles (Mining Specialized) Jacob Mile's Mr. Fix-It Frame. 5 Chinese Supply Trucks
>>>>>>Power: Electricity (Adequate) {Shared from The Crater}. Electrical Poles. Solar Collector Tower Station (Small)

>>>>>>Other:
+Marcus
+Keene
+34 Herd Animals (Brahmin/Bighorn)
+9 Baby Brahmin
+30 Mr. Howdy's Farming Robots

>>>>>A. Scavenge (for what)
>>>>>B. Try to improve (which) base
>>>>>C. Try to improve weapons (where).
>>>>>D. Research technology.
>>>>>E. Explore in a direction/something.
>>>>>F. Scavenge for raw materials (where/what)
>>>>>G. Your choice/Write in
>>>>>Turn: 107

ALERT

Next Turn is the NCR's Centenniel.

You have gained 1 Passive Robotic Production Action. Just list an existing, researched Robot Type or Upgrade.

However, if you roll using a normal or construction action for robots, it will be put toward that instead.
>>
>>1719989
Turn

Hero: Prepare for the NCR's Centenniel, like gifts, and get the family ready.
Civ: Finish Train
Construct: Green Houses, so our farms use less water, and are more efficiency.
Research: Cloning (we can clone other animals)

For Civ we could alway make Hyro Spray to get that metal from NCR. Maybe it'll be good to bring some to the NCR's Centenniel as a sign of good will
>>
>>1720004
>Research: Cloning (we can clone other animals)
Wouldn't help since we lack the genetics of a chicken to even work from.


Easier solution: Gecko's and various other animals produce eggs and exist in large states post-war. Capture and rear these like Chickens.
>>
>>1720004
Please add Building some Securitrons and Axebots to that.
>>
>>1720018
>>1719989
>>1720015
Updated List
Hero: Prepare for the NCR's Centenniel, like gifts, and get the family ready.
Civ: Robot Production
Construct: Green Houses, so our farms use less water, and are more efficiency.
Research: Cloning by Gecko's and various other animals produce eggs and exist in large states post-war. Capture and rear these like Chickens.

How about now?
>>
>>1720004
i'll go for this if we passively build bastions.

Also what are we going to do about what the plant showed us?
>>
>>1720028
I never like that kid, so no to the marriage, we never agreed to it. We can talk with Unity about it, free action. I don't want our kid to revolt against her parents and go with him, only to end up killed.
>>
>>1720037
yeah, lets talk to unity about this.
We might have to put an end to his vampiric ways though.
>>
>>1720037
We should do that some turns later so as to not arouse suspicion from the forecaster, we did just come back from the underground.
>>
Rolled 23 (1d100)

>>1720025
Supporting
>>
>>1720004
No researching any of the toxic clean up suits or bots?
>>
>>1720025
I'm not sure what the research action is. Is it cloning Geckos? or is it cloning things in Gecko eggs?
>>
>>1720058
I say we could hold off on making or using FEV until later, since I feel it better use elsewhere, we're come back to it in time.

>>1720060
It's using gecko's as a base to our generics, allow us to start the first steps in cloning animals that can lay eggs.
>>
>>1720015
Wouldn't there be a DNA bank somewhere in BigMT? They did keep Rattlesnake DNA.
>>
>>1720069
>I say we could hold off on making or using FEV until later, since I feel it better use elsewhere, we're come back to it in time.
But Unity is getting impatient.
>>
>>1720089
We have build the FEV lab, she is fine for now. She is patient, but her people are less so. We have it build so at least they will stop they asking for it getting build.

Took us 3 years to build it, they can wait at least one more to have it working FEV
>>
>>1720025
This

How about finishing the train to get our HEX moving?
>>
>>1719989
How about

>Hero:Prepare for the NCR's Centenniel, like gifts, and get the family ready.- maybe call up, get an idea on what would be going on during the centennial

>civ: finish train

>construct: greenhouses

>research: Hazmat suits for people

and have the passive production on bastion units.
>>
>>1720103
>We have build the FEV lab.
>We have it build so at least they will stop they asking for it getting build.
No we haven't, at all.
We only have begun preliminary work, we need either Anti-toxins, Hazmat suits or Hazmat robots to begin actual work on building the FEV lab.
>>
>>1720111
Nice Trips. But we have above Average in Hex right now, so the train can wait for a bit. If we want passive Hex, we can make a loading station, loading robots, and finish that train.
>>
Maybe late, but yeres my idea for the turn.

Free action - talk to unity about our vision
Hero - continue the exploration of the Big Mt underground.

Civ - let's finish building our train.

Construction - green houses are a good idea.
Passive robot production - bastion bots

Research - develop advanced hazmat suits for labourers.
>>
>>1720136
It's about pre planning, so we don't run out. best to just finish it of now. We're going to spend an action on it anyways sometime.
>>
>>1720135
How about we do that next turn? But we have to first make Hazmat suits or the other choices the scientists said we could do.
>>
>>1720147
>How about we do that next turn?
Yea alright.
>>
>>1720147
the chicken thing is less of a priority. We don't have to drop everything to get eggs and such.
>>
>>1720028
Keep the Forecaster under closer observation by our robotic surveillance net. Especially when he is interacting with our daughter.

>>1720037
We can at the very least look into what he has been telling her and such but I don't want to overreact.

>>1720069
No, I meant that we could capture some Gecko's for eggs instead of using chickens. How did you misinterpret it so badly?

>>1720079
True but the likelihood of them having such a common and useless animal for military purposes and it surviving in good condition through the war / all the Big mt shit is unlikely as hell.

>>1720143
This.
>>
>>1720143
Can the Forecaster read minds?
>>
>>1720143
I'll support this as well.

disregard >>1720119
>>
>>1720111
>>1720053
>>1720025

>>1719989
Here are three votes OP.

>>1720146
I say since we don't be using HEX this turn we could wait for the next turn to finish it.

>>1720143
>>1720146
As for the robots, I find we should boost it, so we can get the bots we lost back, and more in case of a attack. I agree in going with passive at robots factory in the next turns.

>>1720158
I say more like it's a base for our other cloning for the future. Since we can trade many things for it

>>1720161
>How did you misinterpret it so badly?
Just how I read it.
>>
>>1720161
>True but the likelihood of them having such a common and useless animal for military purposes and it surviving in good condition through the war / all the Big mt shit is unlikely as hell.
Worth a try.
>>
>>1720162
I doubt it, but maybe. If he can we dont know about it in game.
>>
>>1720176
If we don't know then we can't tell Unity until we're certain, if the Forecaster can read minds he can learn that we know about his plan from the hivemind.
>>
>>1720176
Well he can read the future. Tho it's in hurtful visions so he could maybe see we're going for him.
>>
>>1720025
Roll me 3 1d100s!
>>
>>1720182
But we also need Unity to keep a close eye out for Sam, maybe start pulling her away from him.

And He hasn't shown any ability to mind read before,
>>
Rolled 42 (1d100)

>>1720204
>>
>>1720204
QM, three votes for
>>1720143
>>1720161
>>1720170
>>
Rolled 46 (1d100)

>>1720204
>>
>>1720204
Qm, i think we actually have a tie at the moment, unless i counted wrong.
>>
>>1720212
>>1720215
It's first vote for three, tho I do agree on some of them to do for next turn
>>
>>1720219
There have been instances where we had ties at 3, and waited for a tiebreak.
>>
>>1720212
I ain't voting for that, I am voting for >>1720143 since we can wait on the request for chickens.
>>
>>1720227
I like to pick something then waiting for hours for someone to change their mind
>>
>>1720235
that's what I'm saying. You, and I supported Multi-ID Anon for 3 votes.
>>
Rolled 12 (1d100)

>>1720204
>>
>>1720219
Its first vote to 3 UNLESS there is a tie.

I insist on a tie breaker, whether by anon's or myself.
>>
>>1720246
Oh sorry I misread.
>>
>>1720251
Sorry, we never have ties
>>
need a tiebreaker
>>
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>>1720259
Ties depend on the thread and how heated the arguments get.

To the anon from last thread showing off his aerial drone designs, i liked this one for our surveillance from your list. Looks neat.
>>
>>1720025
This i guess.
>>
>>1720294
Well theres our tiebreaker unfortunately.
>>
>>1720303
Next turn I support finishing the train, and researching advanced hazmat suits
>>
>>1720303
I'm just unsure about telling Unity, bring it back up 2 turns from now and i might support it.
>>
>>1720321
I agree it will just look to forcaster we're against him right after we left the caves. We need to lower his guard with time.
>>
>>1720276
Here is the tiebreaker you wanted
>>1720294
>>
>>1720342
But if he is suspicious about us and moves his plans foreward just in case, we leave Unity and Sam unprepared.
>>
>>1720364
He think he will marry a 3 or 4 year girl? He still will wait a few years.
>>
>>1720321
Telling someone thats close to us about a vision that may not even be true (due to all kinds of reasons posted last thread) isnt out of the normal for us. Plus the potential that it is true give our family a needed warning that they can then use as they see fit.
>>
>>1720025
Writing
>>
>>1720382
He can just accelerate the stab her and suck her life force out part of the plan.

If hes concerned about losing the future kingsized. Life force, he may just take the bite sized.
>>
>>1720418
It still a free action to tell Unity, so it can be added in, if we wanted too.
>>
>>1720454
then lets do it.
>>
>>1720025
>Civ: Robot Production
What kind?

I will default to MKV - Faceless Non-Hazard Securitrons otherwise
>>
>>1720460
Hold a vote, and link OP so he see it.

>>1720471
bastion bots
>>
>>1720471
Divide equipped Bastions and Axebots.
>>
>>1720471
bastions.


Who wants to tell Unity about the vision now?
>>
>>1720476
Hmmm.

You have not developed Hazard Bastions or Hazard Axebots

If so, I will make it a research action and then allow the factory to passively produce some of the fresh prototypes.
>>
>>1720476
This, assuming we have Hazard models of these models.


If not, then MK-V Faceless Hazard Securitrons.
>>
>>1720483
Yea that's fine.
>>
>>1720483
sure
>>
>>1720483
Keep researched as is
>>
qm you have inspired me to ever so slowly start working on my own fallout quest
>>
>>1720583
Ooh, would love to see it.

I was thinking on quests to run in the far future when this quest is finished. I was considering one based on Rise of Legends.
>>
>>1720594
Im unfamiliar with that setting.
>>
>>1720649
Essentially steampunk versus magic in a setting where the power of the two is roughly equal.


It's...interesting at the very least.
>>
>>1720653
>>1720649
Hmmm, I may have overestimated the amount of people who played that game or remember it fondly. I do have a few other ideas though.
>>
>>1720673
Dont take my ignorance as an average estimation of your player base, im ignorant of a great many things.
>>
>>1720143
Supporting this for next turn.

As the green houses will be built, replace the construction action with an automated mine to produce hexacrete that our engineer mentioned.
>>
>>1720708
>replace the construction action with an automated mine to produce hexacrete that our engineer mentioned.

We have to build a loading station using the construct action, and have to finish the train using the civ action.

>Next Turn is the NCR's Centenniel.
Also the NCR is next turn and we want to be their.
So here is a updated list of the things you want.

Free action - talk to unity about our vision or Not
(Free action so we deiced)

Hero - GO to NCR Centenniel with family, bearing gifts and other useful things.
(Bring Riddick and other useful guys, anon's pick)

Civ - let's finish building our train.

Construction - Loading Station for HEX

Passive robot production - bastion bots

Research - develop advanced hazmat suits for laborers.

>>1720681
What do you think of this? Taking you list, but updated for Hero going to NCR place, and doing the other things you wanted

>>1720673
Never played it or heard it.
But I would think you never played King of Dragon Pass
>>
>>1720737
that looks fine to me.

We should probably leave riddick and cain behind, they don't seem like the celebration type.

We can take the mothers and kids, arcade, raul,ed-e, and rusty for the kids. Leave the forecaster and we get to talk to sma and unity with him very far away.
>>
>>1720737
Im one of the people who think going to the ncr centennial is a complete waste of time. But if you get the votes, you do you man
>>
>>1720781
>>1720770
Anon, I think it can be a useful thing for our time, as we can talk with the higher up, set up better trade routes, learn the current status of the wars against Legion and MLA.

If we don't keep up gathering info, we're going to be in a nasty surprise later on. It's going to help us a bit going into the NCR centennial, we can explore later, this Centennial comes only once every 100 years
>>
>>1720799
i know, Which is why I want to go.
>>
>>1720819
I agree anon. This way we can use our charisma 10 and speech/barter 100 to make some trade deals, or getting some inner talk sneaking into the some high private places and stealing or learning army movement, supplies lines or other.
>>
>>1720799
Thats fine, its your opinion and i respect it. I dont agree with it.

If you're looking for an argument, ill direct you to the last thread. Those two anons had a lovely argument about it that went nowhere.
>>
>>1720857
K anon. I posted what I posted not to argue, but to convince other anons

Now we wait, if OP comes back or not.
Either way I follow this quest for fun.
>>
>>1720870

im not trying to insult you if thats how it came across. I try to stay away from the arguments as much as i can, because like you im just trying to have fun.
>>
>>1720903
My K post I didn't mean it, as dismissing you. I too like to stay away from arguments,
I made the post mostly for the other anons,
not really direction to you to start a argument.
>>
>>1720927
its a new thread, nothing wrong with bringing up just the talking points.
>>
>>1720870
I'm here. I do a lot of thinking and research for these turns sometimes
>>
>>1720799
>If we don't keep up gathering info, we're going to be in a nasty surprise later on.
Speaking of that, remember how much Elijah's cloud had moved when we traveled to Texas.

Dealing with him is priroty number 1 after we take the divide.
>>
>>1720953
Assuming we can restore the nuclear capabilities of the Divide, along with anything we might rally from our Enclave associates and such. We should gain access to at least a dozen ICBM's with large nuclear warheads.

Personally I feel this is our only way of actually beating or at least slowing him down significantly.
>>
Side note - qm says we need 5 exceptional brains for our zax. My proposal is that we use house as 1 of the 5, if tge legion hasnt found his room and killed him.

Chances are that theres no way hell work with us willingly (that nat 1) but his brain is exceptional factoring in the Zax Rewrite.
>>
>>1720979
We don't need exceptional brains just good ones. Personally I have advised methods by which gathering these might be achieved assuming we are willing to disregard moral problems and can develop some technologies.
>>
>>1720990
>>1720979
How about we build the rest of the ZAX first before finding the brains?
Since we do need to build it anyway
>>
>>1720979
Didn't we bring house with us.
>>
>>1721015

we put him to sleep and left him. How would we bring him with us? he needs to stay in his pod, with life support on.
>>
>>1720990
>Personally I have advised methods by which gathering these might be achieved assuming we are willing to disregard moral problems and can develop some technologies.
No.
>>
>>1721011
>>1720990
Not advocating we go and collect him right now, just wanted anons opinion on house as a viable candidate or not.
>>
>>1721011
True.

>>1721021
You didn't even inquire as to the moral problems or technologies.
>>
>>1721030
>>1721037
I like the old guy, also we could get some engineers/doctors from MLA, or Legion. MLA need people to rig their shit, and Legion need people to make and keep the flaming swords in order.
>>
>>1721030
He very well might be but it occurs to me that a brain that old probably is suffering from dementia or some other disease of the mind.
>>
>>1721037
I will inquire. Chances are they arent that bad.
>>
>>1721044
Chances are they are that bad, but lets hear it anyways.
>>
>>1721037
>You didn't even inquire as to the moral problems or technologies.
If you are who i think you are it's highly likely i will disagree with what you propose.
>>
>>1721052
>>1721063
>>1721044
>>1721043
Seems like we all play together enough that we know each other, by the way we type and the ideas we put forth. Even without names
>>
>>1721081
Well it has been almost 3 months of this.
>>
>>1721091
True, but it just goes to show even if we have different views of some things, we can all come together and have fun
>>
>>1721081
True enough
>>
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>>1720143
>Construction - green houses are a good idea.
They are actually a good idea for some reasons, but it turns out, not exactly the reasons you may be after.

Greenhouses will improve the health of the crop, provide better humidity control and, if installed, temperature control as well. Crops will be larger.

However, as it turns out, the conservation of water may actually be minimal or insignificant. The effect is more on temperature and climate than anything, and conventional greenhouses aren't specifically built to recycle condensation. Your crops will be larger and healther, but may increase water consumption as a result.

With the discovery of the cleared out Caverns, your scientists would like to propose an alternative solution: Indoor farming.

These WILL conserve the precious water (and to boot, you have found a river!). It will be more expensive, costing more steel and some hexcrete plus be more energy consumptive, but has the benefits of water conservation. Though, there won't be much of an increase in crop yield as, though the plants are larger and healthier, there isn't as much space to grow on in comparison to outside soil. And yet there is so much space in the cavern and room for improvement.

Your scientists say that the most effective means to conserve water would be to use long and expensive actions to shift above ground farming into new, underground farms. Specialized lighting could even be developed specifically meant to grow farms better. The BCR room approves these calculations.

>What do?
>>
>>1721044
>>1721052
Well we need good quality brains for the 2.0 ZAX, we will need either a large population to search for such examples or a test or something to find them. Given that even if we had such a test, we lack the population to spare, we must look outside our own population for a source since we can't support the conversion of five brains.

Thus we are left with the fact that we need a source of humans, who aren't mentally damaged by drugs or other such things. The easiest source of a population to exploit, by kidnapping and conversion of all captured, is the Legion. Who abhor drugs while also lacking the ability to prevent our works.

Luckily low and moderate quality brains can also find use in our empire as well. As a viable method for controlling the swarms of our air force involves using sheer numbers of brains to process the data, mounted into specialised bodies in the field to support the most of them in a small space and wiping them like high quality ones will improve their performance.
>>
>>1721120
Qm, i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but my vote didnt win. You got the wrong one man.
>>
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>>1721121
>Dr. Mobius
"Good brains are so hard to find.

Why, I remember some of my contemptionaries said that Cyberized brains were so much better. They could take an average brain and attach enough chips and modify it to their needs."

>Brain
"Mhm, yes I believe that would be practical. Any brains could do actually, if you're willing to fund the implants to improve them for computerization standards."

>>1721136
Oh woops.
>>
>>1720025
This is the one
But >>1721120
still applies.

>>1721120
CHOOSE
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>>1721121
Problem with using enemy brains is that i bet they will influence the ZAX even when mindwiped.
Unless QM says the mindwipe removes 100% of the original personality i will hesitate using enemy brains.
>>
>>1721148
normal greenhouse
>>
>>1721148

Ill vote for
>Your scientists say that the most effective means to conserve water would be to use long and expensive actions to shift above ground farming into new, underground farms. Specialized lighting could even be developed specifically meant to grow farms better. The BCR room approves these calculations.

The time it takes will give us time to continue scoiting out the underdark.
>>
>>1721158
Wipe eliminates all memory, personality and consciousness. If they can still do that shit afterwards I'd be amazed.
>>
>>1721120
First Choice
>Your scientists say that the most effective means to conserve water would be to use long and expensive actions to shift above ground farming into new, underground farms. Specialized lighting could even be developed specifically meant to grow farms better. The BCR room approves these calculations.

Second Choice if the Above isn't voted
>These WILL conserve the precious water (and to boot, you have found a river!). It will be more expensive, costing more steel and some hexcrete plus be more energy consumptive, but has the benefits of water conservation. Though, there won't be much of an increase in crop yield as, though the plants are larger and healthier, there isn't as much space to grow on in comparison to outside soil. And yet there is so much space in the cavern and room for improvement.
>>
>>1721120
I don't think we can do either right now since we need steel for robots and raising energy consumption will require more solar farms, which needs even more resources spent.
>>
>>1721186
those are the same thing. The second is just expanding on what the first is in more detail.
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>>1721179
I'm gonna wait until QM confirms the mindwipe is 100%.
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>>1721148
Normal greenhouses.
>>
>>1721208
Not really OP made three choices.
Glass Houses
Indoor Farming using the Cavern
Last. turning the above ground farms into underground farms
>>
>>1721121

>Capturing legionairs to harvest their brains.

Eh, there are worse things. I could see this working. Perhaps have some capture robots armed with non lethal stun weapons to get around the [legion doesnt surrender problem]
>>
>>1721235
Who said legionaries? I was talking about using the fact we have aircraft to allow us to establish a facility behind their lines to kidnap civilians and extract brains for processing which we would then transport via our Scoutship.

I mean, I considered military as well but the simple risks of getting our shit wrecked outweighed the lesser moral problems.
>>
>>1721212
Yes it is. If you want it to be.
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>>1721253
no targeting civilians. no mistreating prisoners of war.
>>
>>1721253
I mean, ill support capturing/debraining their millitary if we can make it viable, but going after civilians doesnt sit well with me.
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>>1721270
CHANGING MY VOTE TO GREEN HOUSES

Three votes OP
>>
>>1721228
>Indoor Farming using the Cavern
>Last. turning the above ground farms into underground farms
Those are one and the same
>>
>>1721253
I'm... actually fine with using Legion Civilians, a good punishment for rebellious individuals when we take Legion territory.
>>1721270
>If you want it to be.
What does it mean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVSRm80WzZk
>>
>>1721280
Supporting.

We can expand to indoor farming later.
>>
>>1721298
three for glass houses
>>1721280
>>1721220
>>1721173
>>
>>1721301
Oh, ill support it if its a criminal punishment once weve taken over.
>>
>>1721274
>>1721275
You are killing someone either way, what difference does it make if they bear arms for their nation?

>>1721301
Yeah, it works for anyone we might put on death row or such.
>>
>>1721148
Indoor farms, can't increase water consumption and having underground farms means we can use the above ground for more solar farms. Just gotta wait to get more steel.
>>
>>1721328
I am absolutely against harvesting brains from anyone, soldier or civilian.
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>>1721329
We can also begin expanding the caverns with some tunnels and truly become NOD.
>>
>>1721328
If they are millitary opponents, then they have already accepted the chance of death and are actively hostile. I have no qualms with killing them.

Civilians havent done that, and just want to live their life. The minute they take up arms and act against us, they stop being civilians...

Thats just my take on it.
>>
>>1721342
What is NOD?
>>
>>1721363
command and conquer tiberium faction.

They're a bunch of religious zealots following an immortal man named Kain and they generally use very subversive tactics like drills, flamethrowers and suicide bombing.
>>
>>1721363
http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Nod
>>
>>1721390
>>1721380


Ah, ive never played command and conquer. That explains my ignorance.
>>
>>1721415
yeah we seem to be veering pretty heavy towards being Kane on occasion. Will have to see how that works out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r93c6qN9XyY
>>
>>1721341
Then we can't make a ZAX and thus we can't run our factory at anywhere near full efficiency and we doom five AI's to non-existence for eternity. Not to mention making our airforce a far less effective system.

>>1721348
Except all of the Legion would take up arms if Ceaser asked them to and they do actively work against us by supplying him with recruits, food, arms and medicine. The man in the factory that makes the bullet that kills the soldier is no less guilty than the man who fires the gun when you are in a state of total war which I would argue we are.

Still I can respect your point.
>>
writing
>>
>>1721442

>Still I can respect your point.
I appreciate it. If you come up with any plans to debrain their millitary ill support you.
>>
>>1721442
There has to be other ways. We shouldn't throw morals out for the sake of efficiency.

The old US had ZAX's that worked without brains, and we can use willing oficer brains to coordinate drone swarms in an acceptable enough manner. Hell, find ARES and figure out how to replicate her brain, she;s pretty much a synth offshoot.

We shouldn't take the easy way instead of the right way.
>>
>>1721484
>>1721442
We just need 6 brains, we should make most of the ZAX first, also think of what the companions we have will think of us depending on our decisions.

So be careful, since our companions always get pissed about what we do. So a legion solider would be better than a civilian
>>
>>1721484
Eh, I guess we could look into raiding supply convoys and debraining their guards and shit.

>>1721492
>The old US had ZAX's that worked without brains
This is a better ZAX design provided by RND and I would point out that even the pre-war design would take insane resources to create since we need to use fissile material to produce every high quality processor and such.

>we can use willing officer brains to coordinate drone swarms in an acceptable enough manner.
"Acceptable enough"? You are willing to risk the success of our military actions and the survival of our troops and our allies? Also it's been stated by OP that we will struggle to control large swarms of drones or to process the data from scouts without something like I have advised or a very expensive electronic equivalent.

>Hell, find ARES and figure out how to replicate her brain, she;s pretty much a synth offshoot.
Yes and most likely expensive as shit to produce.

>>1721512
I thought it was five brains and I would point out that most of our follower's hate the Legion with a passion and that the use of civilians ain't exactly going to cause them massive pain or anything probably.
>>
>>1721617
However it takes resources that don't involve the mistreatment of human beings, and we can get resources if we need it. We won't be expanding as fast, but I feel that's acceptable to not compromise morality.

We just need the one zax and our drone swarm would be running at peak efficiency.

Expensive in resources that are not people's flesh and lives.

The followers won't just accept targeting civilians. They're doctors and shit. A civilian is a civilian, no matter the faction.
>>
>>1721662
>However it takes resources that don't involve the mistreatment of human beings
You say that as if we are going to extract the brains while they are awake and in a manner most painful.

>we can get resources if we need it. We won't be expanding as fast, but I feel that's acceptable to not compromise morality.
To not compromise YOUR morality you mean.

>We just need the one zax and our drone swarm would be running at peak efficiency.
You can't assume that one ZAX will be sufficient for all of our future drone swarms and more importantly, it doesn't solve the issue of communications reliability and the fact we would always need a connection to Big mt where as mine does.

>Expensive in resources that are not people's flesh and lives.
Which shall come at a cost to that very resource since we won't be able to make use of the replicators for useful shit.

>The followers won't just accept targeting civilians. They're doctors and shit. A civilian is a civilian, no matter the faction.
And? I doubt any of them took the Hippocratic oath and more importantly they are aware of what the Legion has done. I fail to see why they'd just decide that kidnapping and cutting out a person's brain and clearing it of everything is a thing to get quite so pissy over.

Especially considering they should be able to tell what the alternatives mean. Less resources to assist the people they know and love for example.
>>
...... Can we scan a brain with the replicator?
>>
>>1721734
I considered it but that still requires the killing of five Brain's consciousnesses and consumes valuable resources.
>>
>>1721714
You're suggesting kidnapping civilians and extracting their brains, and the brains of prisoners of war. Even if their sound asleep, that's just murder. It's not war.

My morality and common western morality

If we need brains so bad we can use the brains of volunteers. We can build more TACT commands using experienced brains rather than blank slates.

But we can get those sort of resources with some effort. The divide, raids on the MLA, loot from attacking the legion. Once we have the forces built up to start being aggressive we're going to start taking our enemies' resources.

You really think the likes of Arcade and Farkas are going t just go, "Well they lived on the wrong side of the border, fuck em"? We're dealing with civilians, and the followers would rather everyone had enough than we had plenty.
>>
>>1721745
what resources? a brain is mostly carbon and water. That's an easy print job, low resources. Slightly more complex than a salsibury steak.

And it's not killing 5 brain consciousnesses, as they were never conscious in the first place.
>>
>>1721771
We should just try what you're saying because I want to see if it can work
>>
>>1721787
Qm you targeted my losing post again.

>>1720025 was the winner, and didn't have a train. Im sorry man.
>>
>>1721755
>You're suggesting kidnapping civilians and extracting their brains, and the brains of prisoners of war. Even if their sound asleep, that's just murder. It's not war.
Mate war is murder. It's state sanctioned murder on an industrial scale. Don't be a idiot.

>My morality and common western morality
Didn't realise that you were the representative of the entire west on it's moral values.

>we need brains so bad we can use the brains of volunteers.
I assume you don't mean to build the ZAX since it effectively kills them.

>We can build more TACT commands using experienced brains rather than blank slates.
That was considered. The sheer number of brains needed is greater than what our population can reasonably sustain and more importantly it leaves us unable to expand our air force.

>But we can get those sort of resources with some effort.
Rather than the near-no effort solution I have provided? Especially since I am offering something that can be easily expanded as needed.

>You really think the likes of Arcade and Farkas are going t just go, "Well they lived on the wrong side of the border, fuck em"?
You are horribly misrepresenting my view on this matter. My point is that they are aware that, no matter if it is intentional or otherwise, they are supporting the Legion's efforts to conquest and enslave their way through the NCR and the US in general by providing an economic, industrial, agricultural and recruiting supply to them. Thus they are a part of the war no matter how much or how little they intend to do so.

>We're dealing with civilians, and the followers would rather everyone had enough than we had plenty.
What?

>>1721771
>what resources? a brain is mostly carbon and water. That's an easy print job, low resources. Slightly more complex than a salsibury steak.
Ignoring the fact that a human brain is a incredibly complex and precise electrical-chemical machine that we want to replicate entirely, there is the fact that it contains amounts of almost every element you can think of. Plus it was stated that cloning a human brain doesn't work and thus I am able to imagine that replicating won't work either.

>And it's not killing 5 brain consciousnesses, as they were never conscious in the first place.
No, they are. From the instant of birth seemingly our brain was at least somewhat aware and so these would be too.
>>
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>>1721815
Goshdarnit. Thanks.

>>1720025
>Civ: Robot Production (Research) - >>1720483
Hazard Bastion Bots

A heavier Hazard Version of the Bastion Robot is developed. This one is loaded with extra armor designed to make the robots vitals and joins as sealed as possible to reduce damage from the cloud, as well as other hazards that may be present in the Divide.

Its extra armor adds HP points to it and Damage Resistance, however it also makes it heavier and more expensive as a result, and somewhat slower.

10 of these large sized robots are passively built by the factory, the new designs easily dwarfing even the big MKV Hazard Securitrons. In all respects, with such extra armor they are definitively as strong as a Light Tank!
>>
>>1721926
Just make sure you keep the train post for later
>>
>>1721926
>In all respects, with such extra armor they are definitively as strong as a Light Tank!

Yeah these are definitely a different role from the standard model now.
>>
>>1721926
that thing looks kick ass. I wonder what the NCR will think, if/when they see them in action.

>>1721938
Yeah man, you don't want to have to type up all that again.
>>
>>1721818
There's a difference between fighting for a just cause and sensless killing. The legion and MLA are lead by terrible people pushing terrible ideology. It is a moral prerogative to put a stop to them. It is not a moral prerogative to take non-combatants and kill them for their brain.

On the instance of killing civilians and POWs I agree with most of the west, in not doing so. Because it's a warcrime.

We can't be sure about that. And we can automate some processes so we can minimize the necessary brain power. Have a bunch of scripts in each plane that can be triggered as needed by the command TACT.

It's no effort, but it's also morally reprehensible. If we have to put in more effort to not comit war crimes, then so be it.

And so, as civilians, they should be conquered but still treated fairly. If they aren't fighting they shouldn't be killed.

Followers are a charitable organizations. They support giving up stuff there are too much off for those who don't have enough.

replicators build stuff atom by atom anyways. a complex thing just means it switches what it's putting down more. The cost would mostly be material.

Our brain was born when we were born. It had decades of experience as a consciousness before it was removed. These brains would be born when they come out of the replicator.
>>
>>1721942
>>1721941
>In all respects, with such extra armor they are definitively as strong as a Light Tank!

So I guess the Bastion will act like our light
Tanks,

The MKV hazard securitrons will be our heavy robot infantry
>>
>>1720025
>Research: Cloning by Gecko's and various other animals produce eggs and exist in large states post-war. Capture and rear these like Chickens.
Gecko Eggs, like most reptiles, typically come out fertilized. By the time they reach a solid hard shell and leave the body, a small fetus is already growing. Thus they are rather nasty. Even Willow, for her expertise on Gecko cookin', didn't recommend biting into one.

Death Claws are known to be an exception in that their eggs, when dropped, don't develop a fetus as quickly and thus make tasty omeletes.

Would you like to capture and breed a DeathClaw? Should be some around and you are more than strong enough.

Otherwise your scientists will attempt something else.
>>
>>1721960
More like Bastions are very maneuverable robots.
Hazard Bastions are light tanks.
Regular and hazard Securitrons are our Mr Potato head robot.
>>
>>1721971
CHOOSE
>>
>>1721971
Get some Deathclaws
It will also make the area around us safer, for our troops and the people.

But what do the scientists have to say first?
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>>1721971
Geckos, no way we have the proper facilities to keep a Deathclaw contained.
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>>1721978
>But what do the scientists have to say first?

>Arcade
"It would be great if we could find a gene sample of an Old World chicken somewhere. If these animals were best suited for human consumption, reviving them would be ideal. As would reviving other animals the cow, the sheep, or the goat.

Though a Brahmin with one head is very strange, most farmers cull any such mutation. But I'd imagine the old world folk would have thought the same of our Brahmin.

The hard part is looking to see if we have any such samples in BigMT."
>>
>>1721998
What do the think tank have to say? I know they arent very reliable, but didnt klein have acess to old world Gene stock?
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>>1721987
Anon, how about in the future, we give the DeathClaw that juice (FEV) to make them smart. That way we can have intelligent deathclaw

>>1721998
Yeah, have our hero go looking through BigMT, bring along the people from before, and Arcade if he wants
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>>1722019
>Anon, how about in the future, we give the DeathClaw that juice (FEV) to make them smart. That way we can have intelligent deathclaw
That is a bad idea if we keep using their eggs.
I also don't know how to feel about intelligent nonhumans that can reproduce.
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>>1722018
>Klein
"CHICKENS? COWS? SHEEP? DO YOU THINK THIS IS A FARM?"

>Borous
"These common barnyard animals are boring! Hmmm, but I may have them around here somewhere. Well, I may also have mixed them up a bit, make them more interesting, in the name of Science!"

Dr Borous thinks he has chickens, cows, and certain other subjects although they may be. . .changed a bit. You'll have to actually clone one to see what happens.
>>
>>1721998
lets look through the banks. We don't have the resources to breed death claws

>>1722019
We need to find the intelligent deathclaws who joined the MLA and get them to turncoat.
>>
>>1722027
I changed my vote to go look through BigMT, since that what the other anons wanted as well.


>"These common barnyard animals are boring! Hmmm, but I may have them around here somewhere. Well, I may also have mixed them up a bit, make them more interesting, in the name of Science!"
>Dr Borous thinks he has chickens, cows, and certain other subjects although they may be. . .changed a bit. You'll have to actually clone one to see what happens.

>>1722038
Go exploring

>>1722040
>>1722027
Alright anons. I want to explore BigMT for now.
>>
>>1722038

I love how hammy Klein is
Lets clone his stuff and see what we end up with.
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>>1722038
Lets clone one of each. Maybe he made them so they grow lots of meat real fast.
>>
>>1722069
>>1722047
We kind of have to go looking in BigMT if I'm reading the post right.

It'll been cool what we come up with
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>>1722077
And get a cloning vats up, i guess.
>>
>>1722044
>>1722019
Sure enough you search, and the only samples you find are actually Dr. Borous spliced examples. But he didn't leave any clean ones unfortunately.

Another oddity is that he made it so that the files detailing them would only unlock once they were cloned. Though he doesn't remember why. Then again maybe Dr. Mobius did that.

>Would you like to try and clone them?
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>>1722081
I feel a fight coming.
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>>1722081
yes.
>>
>>1722081

Clone them all. Have a squad of soldiers in case this goes to shit.
>>
>>1721955
>There's a difference between fighting for a just cause and senseless killing.
Not really. It's just a point of view.

>The legion and MLA are lead by terrible people pushing terrible ideology. It is a moral prerogative to put a stop to them.
A matter of perspective. Also no one wants us to be world moral police.

>It is not a moral prerogative to take non-combatants and kill them for their brain.
No such thing as a non-combatant in these wars. Plus some systems of morality state the thing that minimises suffering for the most people is best. I can be certain my system reduces the suffering of our people more quickly and effectively than yours.

>On the instance of killing civilians and POWs I agree with most of the west, in not doing so.
No such thing as civilian in this case, as we are talking about a total war where both sides seek to destroy the culture of the other and your opponent doesn't take prisoners except to enslave or torture.

>Because it's a war-crime.
"Das ist verboten" logic. What next? Is what I have suggested "haram"?

>We can't be sure about that. And we can automate some processes so we can minimise the necessary brain power. Have a bunch of scripts in each plane that can be triggered as needed by the command TACT.
Nope. It was stated by OP.

>It's no effort, but it's also morally reprehensible. If we have to put in more effort to not commit war crimes, then so be it.
Again, only "morally reprehensible" to you and once again you fall back on the logic of it being a war crime.

>And so, as civilians, they should be conquered but still treated fairly.
And when they are conquered they will fight us every step of the way and I would point out that this is far less damaging than some of the shit we did in WW 2 to Germany: firebombing Dresden for example which they entirely deserved.

>If they aren't fighting they shouldn't be killed.
You don't understand the enemy we face do you? They aren't all manning the guns but they make the shells, they make the uniforms, they make the rations and they have the children who march against us.

>Followers are a charitable organisation. They support giving up stuff there are too much off for those who don't have enough.
Which is lovely but I fail to remember when "Feed the world" started giving ISIS rations and thus why the Follower's would suddenly want to support the Legion.

>replicators build stuff atom by atom anyways. a complex thing just means it switches what it's putting down more. The cost would mostly be material.
Stopping and starting would increase production time, energy cost and possibly may even cause problems with the end product.

>Our brain was born when we were born. It had decades of experience as a consciousness before it was removed. These brains would be born when they come out of the replicator.
Aye and they would still be as conscious as a new born child but you don't recommend taking as many of those as needed to find these Brains.
>>
>>1722100
>imply the spliced animals don't have force field generators on them
>>
>>1722081
Clone them all but one at a time
>>
>>1722116
Sure there is. Fighting Nazi's is a just cause, and should be applaided. The holocauset is sensles killing and should be condemned. Motive is a factor in these things. Or on a smaller level, killing a guy before he kills someone is just, killing a random bloke is senseless.

We want to rule the world, but We can work with factions that agree with us morally, like the mormons, and assimilate them peacefully when the time comes.

There are always non-combatants. It's not like these civilians have a choice to not support the war. Your system does not reduce total suffering, it reduces our suffering. It's still causes suffering outside our borders. There are also schools of thought where doing things that are correct on the individual level is the correct thing to do on the social level.

As we conquer territory, they won't be supplying the armies, but also won't have their brains sucked out of their skulls. If they don't fight us, they are civilians and non-combatants and should be treated as such.

Equating "Haram" and "war crime" is completely disingenuous. War Crimes are violations of human rights, while Haram is a cultural violation.

Fine, we would need brains.

Violation of human rights is an acceptable fall back. Some things should not be done in moral society.

You don't know that. In ancient rome, people venerated their emperors. They still ended up being conquered without the civilians fighting to the last man. The social contract is the soldiers fight and the citizens support. And what you suggest is stooping to the Legion's level, killing them because they are "profligates" who go against your wat. If we are to be better men than than the legion we should act as such.

I understand how war economies work. That does not mean senseless killing of civilians who would no longer be contributing to the war economy. Once they are prisoners they won't be making uniforms, or rations, or sending their children to become soldiers.

Isis is a marauding band of barbarians. They have no civilians. The legion does, and they are not guilty of the crimes of their regime.

The thing makes meat, brain is a meat. Infact It made a rat that lived once its heart was started. It can make brain tissue just fine.

It wouldn;t have conscious thought. Not experiences or memories. Babies experience things in the womb, and so are not the premade blank slates that would be acceptable.
>>
>>1722262
>Sure there is. Fighting Nazi's is a just cause, and should be applaided. The holocauset is sensles killing and should be condemned.

>Fighting Nazi's is a just cause
No it isn't

The holocaust never happened. Don't bring the Nazis in a argument. It just derail the whole thing.
>>
>>1722262
>Sure there is. Fighting Nazi's is a just cause, and should be applauded. The holocaust is senseless killing and should be condemned. Motive is a factor in these things.
And yet again you choose an example where perspective is a important factor. Seeing as a Nazi would think those killings were justified.

>Or on a smaller level, killing a guy before he kills someone is just, killing a random bloke is senseless.
These aren't random people though. They are employed adults in another nation state we are at war with.

>We want to rule the world, but We can work with factions that agree with us morally, like the Mormons, and assimilate them peacefully when the time comes.
Then why are you protecting the Legion and MLA, two groups we can't absorb reliably or easily?

>There are always non-combatants. It's not like these civilians have a choice to not support the war.
They do. Seeing as they could choose to leave the Legion's lands or to fight against Ceaser or to do any other number of things.

>Your system does not reduce total suffering, it reduces our suffering. It's still causes suffering outside our borders.
How does it cause suffering? The people die painlessly and instantly and even ignoring that, you can't disprove that their death is actually a more painless end than their continued existence. Also, why should I really give a damn about how much the people of the Legion suffer seeing as I have been recommending the use of chemical, biological and other such weapons against them, their crops and their animals for quite some time.

>There are also schools of thought where doing things that are correct on the individual level is the correct thing to do on the social level.
Yes but my point is that yours isn't the only system of morality and that mine is entirely justified.

>As we conquer territory, they won't be supplying the armies, but also won't have their brains sucked out of their skulls. If they don't fight us, they are civilians and non-combatants and should be treated as such.
But they are supplying those armies right now, will most likely resist when we occupy and most importantly, aren't an easily absorbable group of people.

>Equating "Haram" and "war crime" is completely disingenuous.
Not really, I am arguing that you are using it as a term to shut down arguments you can't counter. Also you ignored the bit in German which might have made this clearer to you.

>War Crimes are violations of human rights,
And in this time period there are no established human rights and they aren't violations of human rights. They are acts which all signatory states agree to not do in war because the benefits aren't worth the risk of them being used against them.

>while Haram is a cultural violation.
Which is the argument that you use currently seeing as your entire system of thought is that this goes against "western" morality which is inherently tied to our culture.
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>>1722311
Hoh boy, thats some quality bait.
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>>1722424
>Fine, we would need brains.
Yep and mine is the only reliable, cheap, easy and "safe" way to get them that doesn't harm our population.

>Violation of human rights is an acceptable fall back.
Not really. Since we are discussing why we shouldn't do it and human rights haven't existed as a established, detailed concept for centuries and even then nations ignore or flaunt them all the time.

>Some things should not be done in moral society.
Again morality is relative so that statement carries no meaning since some things are accepted and unaccepted in different cultures.

>In ancient Rome, people venerated their emperors.
Depends on the Emperors.

>They still ended up being conquered without the civilians fighting to the last man.
That might have something to do with the enemies they were facing raping, killing, pillaging or otherwise eliminating them. Also you can't state that since we lack any detailed reports from the fall of Rome or any other major Roman city.

>The social contract is the soldiers fight and the citizens support.
Yes, which is why we should kill or capture the civilians, to prevent them supporting the soldiers.

>And what you suggest is stooping to the Legion's level, killing them because they are "profligates" who go against your way.
Wow, way to misrepresent my position. I am saying that their mere existence is a threat to our own since they are constantly reinforcing the Legion's military strength and providing it with a way to grow. Not to mention a complete hate of technology and the outsider means that they are unable to assimilate.

>If we are to be better men than than the legion we should act as such.
Of course because your moral system is "better" than everyone else's.

>I understand how war economies work. That does not mean senseless killing of civilians who would no longer be contributing to the war economy.
Yes but your line was that if they weren't fighting we shouldn't kill them. I showed how this limits our war effort and thus how your position was flawed.

>Once they are prisoners they won't be making uniforms, or rations, or sending their children to become soldiers.
Of course we wouldn't kill prisoners but I don't plan on taking any since their culture is so different and their upkeep would almost certainly outweigh any use we might get from them.
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>>1722466
>Isis is a marauding band of barbarians. They have no civilians.
ISIS has civilians. To be exact, however many wives have left the west to join them and never returned along with any children or families of their fighters.

>The legion does, and they are not guilty of the crimes of their regime.
Yes they are. They support their leader. They send their children off to die for him. They hate those they are told to and obey the laws they are given.

>The thing makes meat, brain is a meat. In fact It made a rat that lived once its heart was started. It can make brain tissue just fine.
A rat is a fairly simple thing. A human brain is not. Especially a good one I would imagine.

>It wouldn't have conscious thought. Not experiences or memories.
Can you state that for absolute certain to such a degree as to throw away five lives potentially? Because you have been given no more information on this subject matter than me and I can state that it seems likely and logical.

>Babies experience things in the womb, and so are not the premade blank slates that would be acceptable.
But we can easily clear their memories and they need to be wiped either way since we don't have a blank brain for the replicators and thus would need to clear at least one brain either way.
>>
I know Qm said cloning a brain doesnt work because you can only clone the tissue, and not the life experience.

But what if we cloned the brain, and put it through a VR - Education and sped it up?
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>>1722525
We don't need the experience if we're just taking cleansed brains anyways, so it actually works out for us.

But he said it was the experiences that made it grow right anyways.
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>>1722424
Moral absolutism exists in Fallout in the form of Karma- According to fallout rules, Nazi killing is morally right.

They have no real other choice. They are afraid, or indoctrinated, and know no other way of life. A choice made without the necessary information is a non-choice. North Korea is Evil, but the people living their lives are not, because they know nothing else.

I'm not protecting the MLA and Legion. I'm protecting people. Because they are people who may be convinced to join our way of life.

See above- They don't know what they are doing is wrong, which grants leniency.

Unnecesary killing is raking away from potential. It causes suffering in the people they were close to and loved.

Yours is also not the only school of morality and can just as well not be justified.

If they are in custody, they aren't helping anyone, and so, once we have them in a position where we can debrain them, there is no reason to debrain them, if your argument is they are helping our enemies.

Morality absolutely has weight in arguments. It's why we as a society have progressed. The Civil rights movement was argued based on morality, as was suffrage. War crimes are based on morality, and so are not just "a term to shut down arguments you can't counter"

Just because human rights don't exist, doesn't mean that they shouldn't. There is always a first for everything and there is no reason it can't be us.

Western morality is also tied to the culture we're trying to rebirth. Following it is not an invalid expectation.

>>1722466
Your way is also cruel and unnecesary.

just because human rights don't exist, doesn't mean they should not. We should be striving to improve, not accepting how things are.

moral society according to american morals we are trying to be a better example of.

We can state the people didn't all die to defend their emperor based on the fact the towns were not rendered barrens and still exist. Rome fell, but there were still people living after.

Or we can kill the soldiers as neccessary, and not target individuals of non-importance.

Their existance is only a threat becasause you want them to be a threat. the legion citizens can be swayed- they are not robots. If they think it's in their best interest to cooperate, they will.

My moral system is closely tied to the modern western one. We're trying to be a new America, a modern western society.

Just because it limits our war effort does not make it an inherently flawed position. Morals have argumentative weight.I can just as easily say Your stance revolves around needless killing, and so is a flawed position.

So your solution is genocide. So you're killing them because they go against your way. How exactly did I misinterpret your position before?
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>>1722470
Fine. ISIS has civilians. But that doesn't mean we're targeting their civilians. We target their leaders and military positions.

They know no other life. We cannot find them guilty of something if they do not know they have another choice.

As a whole, a rat is not vastly more simple than a rat sized brain. Muscle cells and blood cells and brain cells all have similiar levels of atomic complexity. Also we made rat brain in the rat. rat brain and human brains aren't that different in composition.

As long as the brain is not made conscious, i.e. put in a tank or skull, it does not have conscious thought. It has the potential, but not necessarily.

we can clear any brain, so i don't know what your baby argument is. We scan a good quality brain. We replicate it, and without going through the awakening process, cleanse the unawakened brain. We now have a fresh brain that was never capable of conscious thought and can scan that.
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>>1721120
QM, I have some questions for you. Why does the use of greenhouses (with water reclimation) increase our water usage? I understand that if we build tall then the power usage goes up (though it can also be mitigated as I understand) but as far as ive read the use of greenhouses actually cuts down on water usage. Furthermore, it also helps pack plants more densly than open-air farming, meaning more plants per square foot. This is done through the root zones of the plants being tighter together, meaning less water is wasted. With drip-irrigation, water reclamation and improved lighting for the plants that dont get natural light the greenhouse should prove more than capable of reducing the amount of water used per plant, as well as improve crop yields.

http://ac.els-cdn.com/S1877705816323207/1-s2.0-S1877705816323207-main.pdf?_tid=cc095b4c-74ed-11e7-a9e8-00000aab0f27&acdnat=1501395214_7798d6011d3d6d517a8095582babf9bb

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/74ac/6a9733f986690e77626978fdc31759627707.pdf

We dont even have to do all that much to achieve respectable results. Although a fully closed system would reduce water loss further, simple improvements like pic related can already have a noticeable effect. One study found that the evaporation in greenhouse plants to be as much as 30% lower. Add to that water reclamation and smart building and we can have quite a difference in water consumption.
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>>1722858
The problem is twofold: Heat Control and Bigger Crop Yields.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/74ac/6a9733f986690e77626978fdc31759627707.pdf

In the desert, you have the sun constantly shining down on you cooking everything in its path. This is bad for humans and plants alike, even cacti, and you are very close to Death Valley itself.

With a greenhouse, especially here in the desert, adequate temperature control is best achieved by humidification of the air and cycling of ventilation. Regular air conditioners would just dry the air and also shock the plants. Thus with the temperature under control and constant, as well as night time light as an option, plants can grow year round more consistently.

This means more crops, but also more water usage from the ventilation + more crops.

Greenhouses are poor implements for water reclamation. Indoor farming is superior for that purpose because the temperature isn't so hot and true air moisture reclamation can be achieved.

Of note is that, to a point, yes you can pack more plants more densely than open air farming but at the same time for certain crops this is inefficient. Most notably wheat (although, you do not grow wheat and you do not eat fresh bread) has less crop returns when packed densely than when outdoors. As well plants packed closely together can't grow as large in the case of say, watermellon or barrel cacti.

Ostensibly, Janith Kindergarten also notes the lack of Bread and wonders if you could research on some expanded Salient Green.

To note, your followers and agrobots are experienced enough that your outdoor farms already use drip irrigation.
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>>1723166
Can we build more geothermal-breeder hybrid plants down by the lava lakes?
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>>1722081
Your scientists build a very tiny, basic cloning lab under directions from yourself working with Dr. Borous. You'll need a construction action for anything bigger and substantial.

A month in however, and you have your first cloned thing.

>You
[This is a chicken?]

>Dr. Borous
"No! This is. . .Gallasaurus Rex!

I was once contracted by a wealthy man who wished to spare no expense in the return of the Dinosaur!

Unfortunately, we didn't have any dinosaur DNA samples.

So I did the next best thing. The Chicken is the descendant of the Dinosaur, and I unlocked its ancestral genes within itself!"

Now that the files are unlocked.
It eats meat, and has hunting instincts, as well as incredible jump capacity. However, as it turns out, its ability to lay eggs has increased considerably without harming taste. And its meat taste is evidently not disturbed either. If not enhanced.

Supposedly it can grow to enormousness sizes, akin to Deathclaws, if its pen and food source is big enough.

You'll need to build a cloning lab proper and then clone a few more of these to see just how good they are for eating.
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>>1723170
Unfortunately not, this thing is highly efficient as is. The ancients knew what they were doing.
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She was a nigger. A real tough nigger from Vault 37. And she knew how to suck a mean cock.

She liked wigger ghoul cock from Vault 41 the best. The way the scabs came off in her mouth tittilated her. The scab ooze - like waterfalls of puss right into her mouth.
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>>1723181
Fascinating

>>1723176
Can we genetically further engineer it so that it never grows bigger than a regular chicken? I forsee a catastrophe if we decide to breed them for farming.
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>>1723184
Wait, we need to feed it meat... Damn. That's off the table unless we can turn them into herbivore
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>>1723179
Does the plant we have produce fissile materials every turn?
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>>1723184
You will likely have to develop a proper genetic modification laboratory or upgrade some of Dr. Borous facilities.

---

As for the Cow. Well, you have never seen a cow before. You have seen 1 headed brahmin, but this is nothing like that.

>Dr. Borous
"This is 'Super Cow'. And it is boring!

All it is is just the byproduct of Selective Breeding! To create cows which have massive amounts of meat on their bones and give extra milk.

I could never figure out what to do with them. I mostly fed them to other, more interesting animals, like good old gabe."

You wonder what the meat and milk tastes like. You also suspect, since these are old world creatures, it may be vulnerable to radiation.
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>>1723186
No, doesn't work that way. The Breeder Reactor sustains itself mostly using the generated fissile material as an efficient means to extract energy from it.

>Arcade
"You know, it would be great if we found a Uranium mine somewhere if fissile material is always going to be an issue. If history records are true America was rich in uranium veins before the war."

>Jacob Miles
"We could stand to research deep earth surveying
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>>1723191
Op, does anyone have idea what we could do in reasonable short time to gain seperate research action? I remember brain saying something about splicing lobotomites to gain research brains or something.
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>>1723188
Do we need to develop closed farm for these cows now?

Or can we just build cloning labs and breed them for meat that way?
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>>1720025
As you prepare to take your family on another Vacation to the NCR, this time weather permitting, you consider exactly how to move them.

Tony Gam speaks up.

"Boss, I've been working on something you might like."

Oh, that will work well.
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>>1723218
Developing brain splicing techniques will allow you to build more advanced computers, as well as possibly modify Brains/People to be super smart.

Or you could steal/build a Zax and devote it to research. You currently have the blueprints to build a Zax thanks to RND, but his design involves Brains.

Of course, you could also just get way more scientists from somewhere.
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>>1723222
>Do we need to develop closed farm for these cows now?
>Or can we just build cloning labs and breed them for meat that way?
Your scientist recommend building the cloning facility, then raising them in a closed farm.
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>>1723244
Can we get more info on brain splicing development? What do we need for that? Just research or do we need to build a special lab or get specific materials?

How many slaves from MLA could we buy per turn with our personal bottle cap supply?
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>>1723248
What do we need for cloning facility? Any specifial equipment or materials we need to go out and get?
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>>1723252
>Can we get more info on brain splicing development?
Development of advanced cybernetic brains, modified with electronics, within robots or computers for superior analysis and critical thinking capabilities on top of high performance processors.

>What do we need for that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hZ5GDYPqjk

>Just research or do we need to build a special lab or get specific materials?
You have the scientific background here for Brain research and the technological knowhow. Actually you can just build a Brain lab now without any special requirements.

>How many slaves from MLA could we buy per turn with our personal bottle cap supply?
A lot. More than you can fill in your ship at a time.

However, your problem may be more than just money.

>>1723254
Thankfully you have the means to build it now.
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>>1723258
When we finally get these labs up and running, are we still limited in our research actions? Or would we have one specialized research action per lab?
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>>1723266
The good news is with enough development of a Brain lab, you will get a free Brain research action since BigMT specializes in Brains.

Then using that puts you on the pathway to Zax research, which will lead to the free research action.
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>>1723239
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jxn1sqAQ-c

The Open Road is before you and your mighty vehicle, and to boot you are able to bring alongside troops with your supply trucks for some added safety.

You alert the NCR of your arrival and convoy and they give you the greenlight.

>CHOOSE
Where do you want to go?

>NCR Capital
>Other?
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>>1723166
It seems to me there has been a misunderstanding. What I propose is not the usual greenhouses but large buildings with controlled atmosphere (this includes humidity and temperature, amount of light, nutrients and so on). This can be achieved by controlling the water flow to plants as well as the contents in the water. The air conditions can be controlled not by your average AC but cooler systems (think fridge, cools but the air stays the same/doesnt blow). This would mean that its not wood and glass hut but a thought-through building with the necessary rooms to uphold this environment. The crop density can be fine tuned to the plants we use.

Think pic related.
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>>1723291
Effectively making an indoor farm, but utilizing the extra sunlight provided by the desert.

Also, what towns are on the way? How many can we visit and still be there on time? Anything worth looking at for tech?
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>>1723289
Is centennial this turn or next?
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>>1723274
>

Then using that puts you on the pathway to Zax research, which will lead to the free research action.


Or brain splicing research to get use out of lobotomites and improve brains we already have, right?
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>>1723298
Technically in between. This is an abstracted time frame to allow you to do any business or perform any tasks you want. At the end of it you'll attend the actual ceremony (if thats your goal) at the capital.

>>1723299
Well its a Brain research action, so anything involving brains can be performed.
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>>1723303
Improving brain implants?
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>>1723303
Yes our goal is to attend the ceremony.

I Say we go to New reno to buy clothes, gifts and jewelry for our wives and children to wear. Maybe some gifts for officials at the capital. Spend some time there with familia then go 4 days early the ceremony to the capital, we'll have time to prepare and spend time with the family at their capital.
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>>1723316
1 for this
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>>1723289
Where can we visit and still make the ceremony?

Could we swing by San Fran?
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>>1723319
Everywhere really. You gave yourself ample time. Just don't try to do anything crazy.
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>>1723239
Wow, that's great Tony. Did he just make a luxury travel bus for us?

How is Tony getting used to his new life? What does he do? Does he have any requests for us?

>>1723316
Yeah, let's do this
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>>1723323
>How is Tony getting used to his new life?
Fairly well. He has his purpose again, though he does miss the open road and has some wanderlust.

>What does he do?
Drive trucks for Jacob and you mostly. And drink. And help make repairs.
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Gonna be driving somewhere. Don't forget to vote!
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>>1723291
Well yeah at that point you are proposing Indoor farms and all the stuff that comes with it.

Is that what you are saying? The followers say that it would be best to build those underground. The cost for lighting easily offset by the decrease in need for cooling from the sun.
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>>1722665
>Moral absolutism exists in Fallout in the form of Karma-
Oh that system which was removed from 4? That was, if you play the developer's mod, far less prevalent in FO 3:NV?

Also I'd point out that the Karma system isn't moral absolutism, it's just a single rendering of the morality of your actions.

>According to fallout rules, Nazi killing is morally right.
Actually no, seeing as you never encounter a Nazi in the game that is an impossible statement to make.

>They have no real other choice. They are afraid, or indoctrinated, and know no other way of life.
Yep but that is no reason to spare them when their continued existence is a threat to our own.

>A choice made without the necessary information is a non-choice.
And they have the needed information. Seeing as Ceaser isn't lying to them about more or less anything.

>North Korea is Evil, but the people living their lives are not, because they know nothing else.
True but if you told me we were going to go to war with them and kidnapping and killing a few hundred of their civilians would greatly ease the war for our side, I'd probably say that it was a justified action.

>They don't know what they are doing is wrong, which grants leniency.
Yet again you act as if what they are doing or will do is wrong. It' entirely justified to be frank but that doesn't mean we should be any more lenient on them.

>Unnecessary killing is raking away from potential.
Under the assumption any of them had more potential than to bear a knife, grow crops or make weapons, I would suppose yes but once again you brand my suggested action as a unnecessary killing.

>It causes suffering in the people they were close to and loved.
Okay we kidnap those people too. Seriously it's a non-issue, just kidnap them in groups as we need more brains which for my system we can really always justify a need for more.

>Yours is also not the only school of morality and can just as well not be justified.
True but my point is that mine isn't some strange idea or a repugnant extreme. It is a concept that many would find acceptable or even advisable.
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>>1723335
>If they are in custody, they aren't helping anyone, and so, once we have them in a position where we can debrain them, there is no reason to debrain them, if your argument is they are helping our enemies.
I don't plan on taking Legion prisoners except for the youngest children. As I have previously explained. As it would negatively effect our war effort and the resources available to us for our various goals unless we were to get something out of it which outweighs the cost of maintaining a highly secure prison system and guards. Seeing as they're not highly educated, this is nearly impossible for them to provide.

>Morality absolutely has weight in arguments.
No, it only has weight when all else has failed. As morality is a pointless thing when you are talking about the survival of humanity or the prevention of a dictatorship winning.

>It's why we as a society have progressed.
Really? I thought it might have to do with an increasing understanding of the world, industrial surplus, agricultural surplus and faster communication. But no clearly it's because we have developed morality to such a high degree, must be why philosophers are the most famous people in the world right now, right?

>The Civil rights movement was argued based on morality, as was suffrage.
No. They were based on logic seeing as the primary arguments for it were that there were no known differences that would render any of the involved parties superior to the other in regards to the purpose of the laws being proposed.

>War crimes are based on morality, and so are not just "a term to shut down arguments you can't counter".
They are whenever you use them the way you are. There are no war crimes at this point in time and so you are using them as a buzzword. Something to say "You can't do that, that is against the rules!" without understanding there are no rules. That you are doing the same as if I was to start shouting about how our surveillance system goes against the human right to privacy whenever that charter hasn't existed or been followed in fallout for centuries.

>Just because human rights don't exist, doesn't mean that they shouldn't.
Debatable

>There is always a first for everything and there is no reason it can't be us.
You know, except for us being a state which has existed for less than half a decade, still lacks many vital industries, is involved in a half a dozen wars against groups who would happily eradicate our entire people and the fact that we lack the resources to sustain a successful war effort if we were tied down or held back even slightly.
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>>1723333
Dry tropical or desert climates

In dry desert environments, temperatures can be extremely high—hot enough to frazzle most plants inside a greenhouse structure unless cactus is the only crop being grown.

Temperatures of well over 100°F (38°C) year round combined with low humidity are typical in this sort of climate. The main environmental threats are high winds carrying dust or sand, which can blast both crops and greenhouses.

A proven type of greenhouse structure for this type of extreme climate is actually just a simple tent with poles set deeply into the ground, constructed with high-tensile steel wires to form a basic framework over which a single layer of fine insect mesh is stretched and secured around the edges.

This forms a shaded and insect-proof structure that allows adequate air exchange to prevent heat buildup. Inside, the humidity can be increased by fogging or misting, which also acts to reduce temperatures—often to levels well below those of the outdoor environment. Low humidity levels allow for the effective use of evaporative cooling, which is the main feature of cropping in this kind of dry, arid climate.

Air movement is essential inside this type of structure to maintain good levels of transpiration within the crop, as this is another method of natural plant cooling. More advanced high-tech, computer controlled and air-conditioned structures are also in use in climates like this.

As far as I can tell, no it shouldnt. The amount of light needed for actual large-scale farming vs water reclamation above ground should go in favour of above ground. Cooling plants through water evaporation and then reclaiming the water should work fine. Low tech, as described above, works in the desert fine.
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>>1723351
>This forms a shaded and insect-proof structure that allows adequate air exchange to prevent heat buildup. Inside, the humidity can be increased by fogging or misting, which also acts to reduce temperatures—often to levels well below those of the outdoor environment. Low humidity levels allow for the effective use of evaporative cooling, which is the main feature of cropping in this kind of dry, arid climate.

This type of structure is much different than the one proposed here >>1723291 which is more akin to a true indoor structure. Rather than being a building, it is a conventional greenhouse mesh which is cooled by humidifacation and ventilation, via evaporation cooling, which does not allow for much moisture recollection as with an indoor structure.
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>>1723351
This was the greenhouse option I mentioned earlier.This improves temperature and humidity increasing crop yield, but does not effectively increase water conservation. The water is pumped into the air to humidify and cool the temperature, which escapes through the ventilation of the structure itself to bring air to the plants and allow evaporation to move heat out of the tent.
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>>1723351
>Cooling plants through water evaporation and then reclaiming the water should work fine.
It's difficult to reclaim the water via a mesh greenhouse than with a normal solid structure / indoor farming.

The evaporated water has to escape to the outside to allow the structure to cool.

You could add a large condensation to the ventilation perhaps, but then your energy and maintenance costs would increase and at that point if you wanted to develop a closed system in the first place the underground option would be more efficient as it wouldn't have all that massive heating.

Furthermore water would also escape through the mesh itself to ventilate the structure, allowing it to leak into the open air as opposed to a closed structure.

These are according to your followers thermal calculations.
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>>1723356
Yes, this was more an example as to how little it takes to grow stuff in the desert. Simple evaporation is enough to keep plants cool. If we remove water moisture so the plants constantly cool themselves we dont even have to invest in any real cooling, further reducing power cost.
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>>1723373
Aye. Its an effective way to increase crop yield without much cost to power, but at the same time evaporation doesn't help with your water reserves.

Still, its not like you are pouring water into the sun. Though a mesh greenhouse won't drastically increase water consumption, its not exactly helpful either. It does help by growing much larger, healthier plants.
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>>1723373
This is an even simpler version.
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>>1723373
>If we remove water moisture so the plants constantly cool themselves
Well, actually, that would make things hotter and the plants would suffer. Humidification decreases temperature, drying the air increases it.
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>>1723347
>Western morality is also tied to the culture we're trying to rebirth. Following it is not an invalid expectation.
Many of us want to make a new culture and not be a carbon copy of the old. So no, following it isn't invalid but may be pointless seeing as we will be changing it later.

Also we already have broken a western morality multiple times: intrusive surveillance for example.

>Your way is also cruel and unnecessary.
Cruel is a strange term to use seeing as it implies that I am going out of my way to make them suffer when in fact I am merely doing the most efficient way of gather the needed resource which is a manner most painless for them.

As to unnecessary, you already declared we needed brains. Thus this is a necessary act.

>just because human rights don't exist, doesn't mean they should not. We should be striving to improve, not accepting how things are.
True but whenever we have higher priorities, surviving the war against the Legion, MLA and Elijah, I drop morality to the side roads because survival is more important than feeling good about what you have done.

>moral society according to american morals we are trying to be a better example of.
Yes but what is "better" you'd argue your beliefs are superior and I would argue they are not. So this whole point is useless as an argument.

>We can state the people didn't all die to defend their emperor based on the fact the towns were not rendered barrens and still exist. Rome fell, but there were still people living after.
That would be because some people are cowards and hid, others were raped to shit and left alive, other cowards escaped and returned and there were also the attackers of the city who remained within. Plus the population dropped like fuck with the Fall of Rome.

>Or we can kill the soldiers as necessary, and not target individuals of non-importance.
Killing the soldiers as necessary is a logical point seeing as it is always necessary. As to targeting individuals of non-importance, I have already explained who their mere existence supports the Legion.

>Their existence is only a threat because you want them to be a threat. the legion citizens can be swayed- they are not robots. If they think it's in their best interest to cooperate, they will.
True a few might turn to our side but why would the majority cooperate with us? We are everything they hate, fear and despise: technological advanced, profligates, who fight against their great leader. More likely is them fighting against us or running with the Legion.

>My moral system is closely tied to the modern western one. We're trying to be a new America, a modern western society.
No, we are trying to build a good society. If it is a "modern western" society with a "modern western" moral system as you describe that is lovely but that isn't what I am pushing for.
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>>1723389
Yes, and if we remove the moisture from the air and reclaim the water, we save on water as well.
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>>1723391
See, but that version uses cold seawater as a means to condense the hot air. With an abundance of sea water to convert into fresh water it makes sense.

But that system would also have a lot of water escaping into the atmosphere as well. Which isn't a problem there because they have abundant sea water.

In your case it is a problem because your water reserves are limited so even with a condensator like that, some water is escaping and ultimately draining into the air.
>>
What'd I miss?
>>
>>1723396
>Just because it limits our war effort does not make it an inherently flawed position.
It does, from my point of view since it causes unneeded problems for our people and for theirs since you are asking that we make the war go on for longer by using less efficient weapons. It's the Nagasaki principle (on a smaller scale on the killing side): with this single act, you condemn hundreds to die but you spare thousands if not more potentially from having to fight and die.

>Morals have argumentative weight.I can just as easily say your stance revolves around needless killing, and so is a flawed position.
Except you can't say that since I have provided practical, logical reasons for my proposed actions and thus it is not needless since I have described a need. Again, you admitted we need brains and this is an easy way to get them.

>So your solution is genocide. So you're killing them because they go against your way.
Essentially aye, a genocide of their culture but not their people. Young children can be spared since they aren't indoctrinated along with a few others potentially but I don't exactly intend to spare any from our attacks if it comes down to it.

>How exactly did I misinterpret your position before?
Because you were describing it as if it was a personal or religious problem. As if these people had done something I thought was wrong and thus they had to die. When in fact I am killing them because the mass of resources that would be needed to sustain even a single one who most likely wouldn't listen to reason and thus would be a massive drain on the state with no return.

>Fine. ISIS has civilians. But that doesn't mean we're targeting their civilians. We target their leaders and military positions.
Clarify this please: are you still talking about ISIS or about the Legion.

>They know no other life. We cannot find them guilty of something if they do not know they have another choice.
They know other lives. They know of the lands outside of the Legion and they know that they came from tribes outside the Legion and they know that they could run and leave and escape if they wanted to but they don't want to.

>As a whole, a rat is not vastly more simple than a rat sized brain. Muscle cells and blood cells and brain cells all have similar levels of atomic complexity. Also we made rat brain in the rat. rat brain and human brains aren't that different in composition.
Eh, I'll leave it to OP to decide.

>As long as the brain is not made conscious, i.e. put in a tank or skull, it does not have conscious thought. It has the potential, but not necessarily.
Our brain was self-aware before being put into it's tank as that merely granted it a voice and yet again you make the assumption that the conscious thought is not inherent to the brain.
>>
>>1723402
>We can clear any brain, so i don't know what your baby argument is.
A newborn child should be as conscious as a replicated brain in my belief and thus I am asking why you aren't willing to wipe five of those instead.

>We scan a good quality brain. We replicate it, and without going through the awakening process, cleanse the un-awakened brain.
Again, you still need to kill someone for that brain and then as I have stated I doubt the replication will work perfectly.

>We now have a fresh brain that was never capable of conscious thought and can scan that.
As I have now stated so many times it feels like a meme, you don't have any proof that the conscious thought is not inherent to the brain and that you wouldn't be killing five individuals like that.
>>
>>1723397
>and if we remove the moisture from the air and reclaim the water, we save on water as well.
Except for the fact that you will only be able to reclaim a portion of the moisture from the air, while another portion of it is escaping from the greenhouse via the mesh ventilation. So you would be losing water. Not a lot of water, but still losing.
>>
>>1723392
Plant cooling through water evaporation from leaves, excess humidity removed from air, recycled back into drippers, so plants keep evaporating water, cooling themselves.
>>
>>1723401
Some intereting discussing. I'm mostly getting ready to go and brb on a drive, and also clarify the options for the improved farms.

The Greenhouse system won't help conserve water very much but improve yield.

The Indoor/Underground system will help conserve water and improve yield but at higher power cost, especially if built above ground.
>>
>>1723406
While water also leaks out into the atmosphere via the mesh ventilation. Even with condensation and efforts at reclamation, amounts of water would need to be added back into the system to account for the slight loss over time.
>>
>>1723407
Could we get some percentage values of the various savings and costs of both versions or something to make this decision easier?


Personally I think we got to go for greenhouses for now since we've got ways to get more water but we need immediate returns on this shit and we need to reserve the steel / fissile for other shit like robot construction or industry.

For example we still need to get a fabric mill up and running not to mention needing to create a large number of farming robots which will be aided by having a structure built over our farms like a greenhouse since we can remove them having legs and shit and instead just have robotic arms that move on overhead rails and shit.
>>
>>1723408
Its a building. It is made of glass and metal. It is airtight. It has a system for removing moisture from the air. This is done to promote plant water evaporation to cool the plants. It has extra lighting for night time (if needed). The water amount/quality/contents plants recieve is controlled by us. Plant density is regulated according to each plant to maximize crop yields.
>>
>>1723414
It's simply a matter of short term vs long term investment.

It won't harm you to make the greenhouses by all means, its just me saying "hey, this system improves food yield not water yield, but it costs less!" or "this system improves both food yield and water yield but costs more!"
>>
>>1723420
Let me ask you another question, what amount of steel and power would it take to construct enough underground farms to sustain our entire population?
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>>1723419
>Its a building. It is made of glass and metal.
Well then you're making an indoor structure my friend, not like the one proposed in >>1723351
and that would operate under a different system.

Now, this indoor system being airtight you would be able to reclaim the water. But at that point the water would be so hot that you'd be expending more energy to completely cool and reclaim the water entirely.

Less energy would be spent on water reclamation if the structure were hexcrete, and the farms lit by bulbs instead of sunlight instead. And less hexcrete would be spent, if they were build underground or in an existing building.
>>
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>>1723421
Hmmm. Comparing the two systems for the same space in terms ofcost.

This is taking into account either an above ground greenhouse or an above ground indoors farm would need steel for its superstructure, plus hexcrete or glass depending on the structure.

The underground caverns already provide the superstructure so there would be less hexcrete. Steel cost would come from airtight doors, ventilation shafts, and thin metal walls to cover the Carven walls so they don't get mossy. Slightly more steel really. Without the sun heating up the air so, the condensator wouldn't have to work so hard so less energy.

Oh! And here's a nice thing, as there is a cool running river down there, providing an additional source to cool water further.

So in terms of power, steel, hexcrete/glass.

Above Ground = Lot more power. Some steel. More Hexcrete/Glass
Underground = Lot less power. Some more steel. Almost no hexcrete/Glass
>>
>>1723443
Correction. There may need to be some hexcrete, just for pillars for structural support. It would be safer that way.
>>
>>1723443
And if we used Hexcrete to cover the cavern walls instead of metal?


And what about if we were having to construct such a system without a convenient system of caverns? I presume it would just be more intensive to construct?
>>
>>1723450
>And if we used Hexcrete to cover the cavern walls instead of metal?
That works too. Though it does reduce space a little bit, but not significantly so.

>And what about if we were having to construct such a system without a convenient system of caverns? I presume it would just be more intensive to construct?
Yes
>>
>>1723457
I have made my decision, thank you OP for this valuable data.


I advise we construct underground farms. As by the advised design I have provided they'll require minimal metal investment potentially even equal to a sealed above ground farm system while reducing power and water consumption.


Plus, it brings us one step closer to being a sci-fi / high tech civilisation and helps develop our civilisation towards low ecological impact living which will help convince the New Canaanites and Joshua to let us expand into their lands more easily.
>>
>>1723463
I agree
>>
Rolled 3 (1d3)

>>1723316
Lets do this
>>1723316
>>1723323

Three votes OP>>1723457

Just do it i don't want to wait 5 hours to got votes
Support>>1723463
>>
>>1723518
Right, well, I'm going to be driving for a few hours but will post when I get back.
>>
>>1723528
See you in 10 hours
>>
>>1723528
See you later OP

RREEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>
>>1723528
Don't hydroponics or the tower farms save on water and energy compared to these?
>>
>>1723622
No use. QM made up his mind.
>>
>>1723463
Support this
>>
>>1723335
It was establishing right and wrong to a variety of actions establishing an in universe moral absolute.

It's called extrapolation. Fiend killing gave good karma, and the Nazi's are worse than the fiends.

Their existance is only a threat when they are in legion territory. Remove them from the territory and they are no longer a threat.

Ceasar is not directly lying but he is heavily twisting the facts to fit his narrative. They don't know the absolute truth on how things are.

Well unfortunately, kidnapping and killing civilians is something that is legally not justified according to the United States, so you would in this instance be wrong.

You're the one who talks about how they help the legion so it's justified because they aren't actively resisting. And it is very much a reason to be lenient.

We don't know that. Every human has potential greater than what they are right now. It is unnecessary killing if it is not done directly for just causes.

Everyone has family and loved one's and kidnapping more people doesn't reduce the suffering.

It's is not a concept many would find acceptable or advisable. You're Amoral pragmatism is not a common ideal in western culture. Unlike you, many people have a sense of empathy and lay a large value human lives.

>>1723347
Taking prisoners may affect the war effort in the short term, but a kinder hand towards prisoners and occupied people would positively impact long-term development. Killing every legion member depopulates the entire are and we no longer have people to do things.

We're not so desperate that abandonment of morals becomes justified. We have a stable society, and we can afford not to abandon morals.

Morals drive society. Morals are a driving force behind progress. That;s why the most famous people are moral activists like Musk and Gates.

By that logic, there are no known differences that would render the legion people inferior to us. They are just as capable of learning and change for the better as any of our people.

The current non-existance of hard coded rules is no reason not to establish and follow them. You're insistence the "the rules don't exist, we don't follow them" is ignoring the ability to establish them and the fact that establishing and following such rules are the hallmarks of enlightened society.

Debatable to people like you.

We can in fact hold ourselves back. Being slightly less capable by following moral rules is no reason not to jump off the cliff into amorality for the sake of being slightly more efficient.
>>
>>1723396
We want to build a better culture, improving on the flaws of the old, but retaining the spirit. Following as much as possible is in fact in line with what we're doing.

It is unnecessary to do it in this way. Brain replication is a possibility, as are manufactured brains. Stealing them from people is not the neccesary act.

We can survive with morality intact. As I have said, we're not so desperate as to need to drop our morality in order to survive. We can survive and "feel good" so dropping it becomes pointless.

The "better" would mean not falling back into moral beliefs that existed prior. If we believe america has been getting morally better throughout its existance, with small dips here and there, we can see that abandoning morality like you suggest is not the "better" thing to do.

And so the people did not fight to the last man. You just proved my point. And we would be occupying legion territory. The population drop was largely because of slaughtering the populace, not because the people fought back tooth and nail.

But once we abduct them or capture them or occupy them their existance no longer supports the legion, and so extracting their brain no longer becomes a thing that must be done to deprive the legion.

We can convince people to change. We've done it before. Of course they believe Cesear. They have nothing else to go off of other than that we are dishonorable and villainous. If we show them cesear is wrong, we can convince them to our side.

We seem to be following american ideals and traditions, so "modern western society" is what we are pushing for, at least as a whole, excluding you. Which is why so many of your ideas get shot down for moral reasons.

>>1723402
Except this act won't be saving people- we have a robot army, and kidnapping and killing POW and civilians won't make the legion more likely to surrender. Sun Tsu said "Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across." If we want to save human lives, then we should give them reason to surrender. Killing prisoners just makes their armies fight harder, because they have no option that prevents their death.

It is easy, but not the only way. Morals surpass the material costs of manufacturing brains or replicating them.

Being genocidal does not improve the likely hood of gaining surrender. If people believe we would treat them well, they would likely surrender, compared to surrender leading to death, in which case, they continue to fight.

We are not lacking in the resources that would be needed inorder to keep the people in custody. We have excess food, and once we expand into legion farms and water sources, would have that to feed people. You make this argument on the basis we can't improve, or would be gaining resources to support prisoners as we go.

ISIS and modern US military policy
>>
>>1723402
They only know what cesear tell them. They know there is technology and with technology there are dishonorable barbarians who would kill them all given the chance. Why would they run into the arms of those who would kill them?

Fine, OP should weigh in.

Our brain was conscious because it was conscious for decades as us. If it is not actualized, it is nothing more than complex meat.

>>1723403
A baby would be more conscious due to the experiences and subconscious development it gains in Utero

No we can build a jar that keeps alive brains alive and scans them at the same time, take one of our brains, scan them and put them back. No need to kill someone. As for quality, we would then be able to make brains when we want to. Why use 5 good brains when we can use 10 ok brains, if we're spending a small bit of metal for it?

Conscious though only exists in the brain while the tissues are alive and undergoing their own self sufficient processes. An AI core can posses conscious though, but it is not inherent to it, and similiarly a brain can be conscious, but can just as well be a bundle of nerves and fluid.
>>
>>1723622
Hydroponics are a subset of farming that can be included in both the indoor and greenhouse model and will save up on water, but the indoor model with hydroponics is still more water cost effective.

In fact the indoor model is most efficient if using hydroponics rather than ground farming.

>>1723644
I sort of have to follow the laws of thermodynamics anon when it comes to water conservation and energy efficiency.

That being said, perhaps if you truly wish to blow all options out of left field, you could always research FEV super crops.
>>
>>1724050
The excess heat can be dumped underground easily. Water temperature would remain at a constant 4C not too deep in the ground and dumping heat underground is no problem.

But, as I said. Doesnt matter. Lets move this along.
>>
>>1724050
So, hydroponics, long term. Figure out the best crop to plant densely and get the most out of the facility. Plants that grow tall and produce fruit rather than roots are preferred. No trees.
>>
>>1724096
Problem is it seems we're pretty close to a lava pocket, so the ground of the mountain wouldn't be that cool.
>>
>>1724146
Doesnt matter. As we dont experience the effects on the surface, it must be at least a ways down. That means we can use the ground as it takes little for the effect to occur.

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Cooling/time-lag-vs-depth.gif

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/temperature-for-3-or-4ft-underground.826193/

Where I live you only have to go down around 2 meters to get a constant temperature year-round. This is used in thermal exchange heaters. The temperature stays the same through 30C summers as well as -20C winters.
>>
>>1723316
Just before you head off, you do a head count. You decide to bring your "wives" or more accurately, the mothers of your children and your several 3 year olds.

The mothers insist on bringing muggy and supplies for the kids.

Meanwhile, Sam walks up and tugs your hand.

"Daddy, can we bring Clay please? Mommy said it would be okay if you were okay with it."

Hmm, you also need to speak to Unity about what you saw.

>What do?
>>
>>1724392
Also do you want to bring anyone else? Besides your mothers/children, muggy, Gam, who else?
>>
>>1724392
"Clay just want to use you for your pussy, sweetheart. I'm going to talk with mommy about it. But you stay her with the other."
>>
>>1724408
Top kek

>>1724392
tell sam, that we would rather it be just the family. Then tell Unity about our vision.
>>
>>1724402
Bring Raul, arcade, cass, the women we didn't get pregnant, if any of them want to come. Bring ED-e and Rex.

>>1724392
This is a family trip. Clay isn't family so he can stay behind, make friends with the other kids in town.

Also, brain knows what we know, so I'm assuming brain would be keeping a very close eye on forecaster, right?
>>
>>1724408
Kek

>>1724402
Bring Arcade, maybe Riddick if he want to come, he can bring either the motorcycle or his car.

>>1724412
I do want to bring Arcade and Riddick along.
>>
>>1724426
that's fine, i gave family time as an excuse that forecaster might buy
>>
>>1724423
>the women we didn't get pregnant
That's a lot of women.

Doc Delilah is married right now.

Does that include Mary-Jo Casey?
>>
>>1724448
The women we slept with and didn't get pregnant. Delilah and her husband can come along.

Didn't Mary-Jo get kidnapped by Crypto?
>>
>>1724457
>Bring the married women we fucked but didn't get pregnant.
That would be very awkward.
>>
>>1724457
>Didn't Mary-Jo get kidnapped by Crypto?
Several of them escaped. The only one kidnapped by Crypto was Willow.
>>
>>1724478
ARES was kidnapped too, wasn't she?
>>
>>1724478
Yes take them as well, let's get this show on the road
>>
>>1724487
Oh right, and ARES.

>>1724541
Writing
>>
>>1724541
Mary-Jo is a skeleton in a trauma harness. Not the most friendly of faces to bring on a field trip.
>>
>>1724412
>>1724423
>Sam
"Awww. . .okay daddy."

---

The Road Trip is on the way, and you are headed down a familiar road to New Reno, a place you've only heard about but have passed by on your days as a courier.

You never imagined you'd travel in such luxury, and to be honest its almost weird not having the sting of your achy feet or the feel of power armored legs. Everything moves by so fast, and from the roof some of your companions are on the lookout for anything dangerous.

Meanwhile you take this time to speak to Unity about your visions, telling her exactly what you saw.

She scratches her chin.

>Unity
"I can't say I'm not convinced what you saw as impossible.

He's a psyker too. I know because I am a psyker. Somewhat. My powers are weaker away from my core body at Baker, but there's enough of it in this form thanks to its pure human genes.

At the same time, it sounds like what you were dealing with was also a creature with psychic capabilities as well to implant those visions in your head.

How can you say that those are true or not either?

And what do you want to do about it?"
>>
>>1724691
>And what do you want to do about it?"
Just keep a eye on Clay, and Sam. Their is no other explanation of what happened to the creatures down their. He would want to take her power away from her.
>>
>>1724710
>Unity
"Actually that part I can believe.

For a long time now I had felt a. . .presence, beneath BigMT. A dark one. Even before I had left many decades ago, and upon my return with you.

Until it wasn't there anymore. I had noticed a gain in his psychic abilities after one of the alien battles. I could put two and two together.

That presence beneath us felt evil. And Clay does seem like a good boy. But you and I both know appearances are deceiving. Of course I'll keep a close eye on Sam. As long as she lets me in, I'll know where and what she's doing."
>>
>>1724691
keep an eye on clay and Sam, try to convince Sam to drift apart from him.
With how easily the plant died, I don't think it killed everything else, and Clay already told me he killed everything down there. Plant vision matches the facts more than what clay is telling.
>>
>>1724727
1 for this
>>
>>1724727
>try to convince Sam to drift apart from him.
I don't know about this one, could lead to trouble.
>>
>>1724752
Needs to be done. Unity can stop if Sam starts getting hostile about it, but if it's possible, then when we end up taking Clay on, less hurt all around.
>>
>>1724727
Voting for this
>>
>>1724770
>then when we end up taking Clay on
>When.
If anon, if.
Unity just mentioned we can't tell if the visions we received are true or not, the only evidence we have that Clay want's to murder Sam for her Psychic powers is the sudden disappearance of the Evil presence beneath BigMT and Clay's psychic power increase she describes.
There's also the problem of that by drifting Sam away we tip of Clay that we know what he's planning(Assuming what the Mushroom showed us is true).
I suggest we just stay with passive observation for now and maybe even introduce Sam to other children so she isn't spending all her time with Clay.
>>
>>1724727
Supporting
>>
>>1724727
I vote against, we should wait a bit till we try to that.
>>
>>1724838
Of course sam going to wait she on a trip with us.
>>
>>1724752
>>1724780
>>1724829
>>1724727
>Unity
"Then please tell her in person. I'd like her to hear from you how you feel. Even if we see what everyone see's, we value being told to our face. It's still meaningful."
>>
>>1724858
Tell her in person
>>
>>1724848
I mean we should wait a bit after we get back from the NCR, like a few turns. We should see how they normally interact before we try to distance them from each other.
>>
>>1724867
I agree with this.
>>
>>1724858
We'll talk to Sam on the trip.
>>
>>1724867
Alright, I want my trip not emotions
>>
>>1724865
You walk up to your daughter, she seems distressed.

>Sam
"Daddy, I heard what you said to mommy. It's not true, Clay wouldn't hurt me. He's my friend."

>You
[I know what I saw Sam. Unity does too. He killed all those monsters and took their energy. He might do it to you too]

>Sam
"They were evil daddy. He made sure they wouldn't hurt us while the aliens were attacking. You make evil people go away too and you take their things all the time."

>You
[I have to do this for your own saftey Sam. You have other friends too.]

>Sam
"They aren't like clay though. I-it's not fair. . ." she starts pouting and her eyes well up.
>>
>>1724867
We've seen how they interact with each other. Clay gets her attached to him, and She eats that up.
>>
>>1724889
Hug Sam
>>
Meanwhile, you arrive in New Reno.

It's quite different than what you expected. You heard it was a "den of scum and villainy"

It's. . .clean. Clean and shiny. Most of the buildings are clearly New World and rebuilt of NCR Grade concrete.

There's no slum area to speak of, but it reminds you heavily of Vegas. Shops, hotels, and a single grand casino behind which you spot the rise of roller-coasters.

The whole city is lit up with bulbs and neon, giving it that New Vegas feel. And just like New Vegas, there's heavy security.

You see large Sentry Bots standing at corners, and various NCR MP military. There's big crowds here, and families with children. It's strangely orderly.

Its a bit smaller than New Vegas, but if there was anywhere on earth that came close, this would be it.
>>
>>1724889
comfort her.
>>
>>1724889
Pat her head and give her a hug
>>
>>1724908
>>1724914
>>1724918
She hugs you, but says she wants to be left alone.
>>
>>1724913
>>1724928
Spend some time in New Reno, see how things are going
>>
>>1724964
yeah do this. Also find some candy or toys or something for the kids.
>>
>>1724913
...God I want to nuke it from orbit. So bad.
>>
>>1724975
Im with you man.
>>
>>1724991
I have a few ideas for tunnelling robots that could deploy a series of explosive charges into the foundations of all the buildings. We could bring this entire place down to rubble in an instant without it ever being linked to us.


That or we use the scout-ship to nuke it, repeatedly.
>>
>>1725002
I want to see it destroyed, but preferably without leaving behind radioactive problems.

Im fine with tunneling idea.
>>
>>1725023
For the tunnelling idea, we'd want to make a fairly long snake-like mining robot that carries behind it either a series of charges or a Securitron type replicator to produce charges. Then we just have it tunnel under the city, around any sorts of basements and pipes, and lay a series of charges over time.

Then it leaves the region, detonates them and either returns to our land, we pick it up or moves towards their next town and continues destroying everything it can.


I would also point out that the NCR can clear radiation so it's not too much of a problem, more so a delay.
>>
>>1725048
I don't want to go blowing up civilian targets for no reason.
>>
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>>1724964
There's even a place to park your RV! It's guarded by yet more Sentry Robots.

You notice that these robots are eeerily similar in personality to a Securitron. Though it's obvious someone had generated the voices and the programming, the effort to mimic their function in New Vegas is present.

You also notice you aren't the only one arriving by vehicle, though yours is the most extravagant.

There are several places to visit, and you have a lot of bottlecaps.

>Food District
>Hotels
>The Eightball Casino
>Entertainment District
>Medical Center
>Shopping District
>Historical District
>The Outdoors Park and Activities District

Further conversation reveals to you places not normally meant for public advertisement.

>Redlight District

Where too?
>>
>>1725074
As if I give a damn.
>>
>>1725111
>Medical Center
>Shopping District
>Historical District
>>
>>1725048
>For the tunnelling idea, we'd want to make a fairly long snake-like mining robot
I believe this is what you are looking for.
http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Montauk
>>
>>1725111
>Medical Center
>Shopping District
>Historical District

>The Eightball Casino That's going down first
>>
>>1725111
>Medical Center
>Shopping District
>Historical District

>>1725112
just putting it out there.
>>
>>1725111
>Medical Center
>Shopping District
>Historical District
>>
writing
>>
>>1725150
Also I have questions for you, mister morals. What is your thoughts on the use of chemical, biological and other such weapons? How about WP or non-detectable fragmentation material in bullets? What about booby traps?
>>
The Historical District lies near the Bishop Family Botanical Gardens, tended to, like most of the city, by many restored and reprogrammed Mr. Handy's. You've never seen so much green outside of Zion and Vault 22.

There is a holographic speaker here that helps teach travelers the history of Reno "From Old, to New, to Now".

It speaks of Reno as it was in the Old World, and how after the bombs the gangs and crime families took over for almost a century. Reno was not just a center of commerce, but a center of terrible vices and crimes.

Jet was invented here, "the plague on the wasteland" and New Reno was one of the major Slave Hubs. The Wrights, the Mordinos, the Van Graffs, the Bishops.

Even worse, as the NCR spread the beacon of freedom and democracy, the Legion sent agents and spies into New Reno, to make it a stronghold of Slavery. Leeching off NCR wealth, spreading poisonous drugs and vile influence, operating the sin of forced slavery, and amassing weapons and an army within the very heartland of Nevada to spring into the NCR's back.

All that was changed with the arrival of the NCR to liberate the area but a few years ago, by new President Yaunker, using his army to drive out the crooked families, ending the slavers and their Legion frumentari. With the help of NCR medicine and science, the many denizens of New Reno were cured of their jet addiction through Fixxer programs. Meanwhile, in the absence of the families, President Yaunker placed a visionary to govern New Reno, Mr. Oddball, who has since spread his visions of wonder and imagination the people of the New California.

"Do you have any questions?"
>>
>>1725282
2242
>Not long after the destruction of the Enclave, the Bishop family of New Reno is blessed with a child. This child seems to have little in common with the Bishops, preferring instead to spend his days exploring the wastes. When he turns thirteen, he seizes control of the Bishop family and leads them to victory over the remaining New Reno families. He dies quietly in his sleep at the age of seventy-three, never having known his real father.

Whoa Son of Chosen One is still alive,
His death is 2315
>>
>>1725282
"Where does Mr Oddball live? How does the city receive it's power, water and food? Where did all these Mr Handy's come from?"
>>
>>1725242
Chemical, Biological weapons should not be used at all.
Nuclear weapons should be used only as retaliation to other WMD's

Don't know what WP is

non-detectable fragmentations should not be used

booby traps should not be designed to cause excess sufering, so landmines are fine, but not punji stakes.
>>
>>1725325
>Chemical, Biological weapons should not be used at all.
Dumb as shit.

>Nuclear weapons should be used only as retaliation to other WMD's
Dumb as shit but fair enough.

>Don't know what WP is
White Phosphorous.

>non-detectable fragmentations should not be used
Dumb as shit.

>booby traps should not be designed to cause excess suffering, so landmines are fine, but not punji stakes.
Also dumb as shit but a bit better.
>>
>>1725325
Seems like you don't want to win at all
Just use the weapons on military targets
>>
>>1725349
He is the guy that is against my plan to de-brain the Legion. Don't expect him to prioritise actual results over being able to pat himself on the back for having "morals".
>>
>>1725242
Chemical and biological weapons should be used extremely sparingly if not at all.
Same for nuclear weapons, used as retaliation to other WMD's and really tough enemies.
Don't see a problem with WP since we're probably gonna research and produce alien weapons like the Heat laser and sonic weapon, unless our citizens/companions have a problem with it i won't complain of it's use.
Don't know what non-detectable fragmentation is and Google ain't telling me shit in layman's terms.
Booby traps are fine.
>>
>>1725323
>Where does Mr Oddball live?
"Mr. Oddball's residence is the Eightball Casino, though being a busy man, it is common for him not to be in his Casino sometimes."

>How does the city receive it's power, water and food?
"The NCR has provided all for New Reno.

As you may be aware, President Yaunker discovered the twin miracles. How to produce fuel from plant material, and how to grow plants at amazing speeds. The National Resource Allocation Act has provided more jobs for more people than any in our history, from logging, to fuel refinery, and the new Gas Turbine Power Plant. Efforts have also been made to link up the power grid with Old World wonders now restored, such as Nuclear Plants and Vaults.

The strides of science have provided for the food as well. Oddball, a man of science and vision, discovered a new way to convert organic plant matter into other types of food and chemicals. With the aid of scientists from across the country from the OSI in NCR, to the Shi in San Francisco, a new wonder substance, Salient Purple, has been developed. Food and plants of all kinds once thought exist now flows throughout our glorious Fatherland."

>Where did all these Mr Handy's come from?
"As for the robots, Great strides have been made in the restoration of Old World factories and robotics to our noble cause, bringing to the New World the convenience and comfort that those of the Old World enjoyed."
>>
>>1725332
No white phosphorous against civilian targets then.

>>1725349
We can still win even if we restrict ourselves.
You make it seem like we're being beaten back consistently. These things just make us win quicker at the cost of needless killing.
>>
>>1725391
Oh fuck Oddball and his pet follower.
>>
>>1725391
Every time we come to the NCR, I just get pissed off more about how far behind we seem to be.
>>
>>1725403
They have more raw resources and workers than we do. We need to start pushing into the divide and things would start going quicker
>>
>>1725391
>The strides of science have provided for the food as well. Oddball, a man of science and vision, discovered a new way to convert organic plant matter into other types of food and chemicals. With the aid of scientists from across the country from the OSI in NCR, to the Shi in San Francisco, a new wonder substance, Salient Purple, has been developed. Food and plants of all kinds once thought exist now flows throughout our glorious Fatherland."
HE DID FUCKIN WAT.


Alright, time to nuke his casino and the city and onward until that entire nation smoulders with nuclear fire and the people cry in pain.


I ask permission to begin the various prior described covert operations against the NCR in order to eliminate all their assets and to render them a nonissue.
>>
>>1725409
You can certainly organize such attacks next turn.

Any more questions for the holographic speaker person or should I move on?
>>
>>1725409
no. There''s nothing we can do about it now, and nothing of the sort is going to happen again.
There is no point breaking up with a strategic ally for the sake of something already done.

Don't you want to "prioritise actual results over being able to pat yourself on the back for getting vengeance."?
>>
>>1725380
>Chemical and biological weapons should be used extremely sparingly if not at all.
Considering how far behind we are, I am going to advise them being a constant feature of our army.

>Same for nuclear weapons, used as retaliation to other WMD's and really tough enemies.
Okay so Elijah, NCR, MLA and the Legion.

>Don't see a problem with WP since we're probably gonna research and produce alien weapons like the Heat laser and sonic weapon, unless our citizens/companions have a problem with it i won't complain of it's use.
Good to know.

>Don't know what non-detectable fragmentation is and Google ain't telling me shit in layman's terms.
Essentially material that can't be detected by X-ray and thus is near impossible to find in the body after a bullet shatters or fragments inside the body. Resulting in reoccurring injuries caused by movement like internal bleeding, potentially poisoning and occasional infections.

>Booby traps are fine.
Good to know.

>>1725392
That is a compromise I can agree to.
>>
>>1725409
Don't jump the gun mate we aren't even ready to begin preparations for such an attack.
Honestly i think we should begin focusing on improving our own Society. I suggest while we collect metal from the Divide we expand the school and start teaching more advanced subjects.
>>
>>1725242
I mean, my morality shifts depending on how shit my work day was.

>Chemical / Biological Weapons
That depends entirely on the chemical / biological weapon. My main issue is how hard those are to control. I don't want to gas civilians by mistake but I could give a shit less about the Military targets.

>Nuclear Weapons
I mean, I don't think they should be our first option, but taking them off the table is madness. Run a risk assessment similar to WW2 Japan invasion. If it costs more lives to take a place than nukes, Nuke them.

>White Phosphorous.
Again, If the target is military, I could care less. Burn em. We just need to control it so it doesn't spread / burn civilians.

>non-detectable fragmentation
If they don't want to get shot with fancy bullets, then don't attack us. Simple Shit.

>Booby traps
Eh, I don't like traps in general. Its hard to control who goes in and who goes out. Anti Tank landmines are one thing, but the kind of IED/suicide cars you see in the middle east now Im not so sure about.

>>1725409
Do we have a non nuclear / Ballistic missile that we can toss from orbit. Do the orbital satellites even hold those? Otherwise, I'm fine with collapsing Oddballs casino from underground. Fuck that guy.
>>
>>1725420
>no. There''s nothing we can do about it now, and nothing of the sort is going to happen again.
Like hell you can make either of those statements. We can do plenty and I know for a fact you can't stop something like this happening again.

>There is no point breaking up with a strategic ally for the sake of something already done.
Who said we'd break relations? These covert acts are just that, covert. There is no reason they'd link them to us and thus no reason they'd compromise relations.

>Don't you want to "prioritise actual results over being able to pat yourself on the back for getting vengeance."?
Mate, this gets the actual result of the NCR being weaker and more dependent on us for military, economic and industrial support which means we can charge more for less while also lengthening their war against the Legion / MLA.


>>1725428
All I need is a shit-tonne of dynamite, the Scoutship and the Courier and I can fuck the NCR over severely but I can settle for a fusion cell powered motorbike instead of the Scoutship.
>>
>>1725421
>Considering how far behind we are, I am going to advise them being a constant feature of our army.
No.
>Okay so Elijah, NCR, MLA and the Legion.
Again no, i consider those plant cultists in Texas though people who we can nuke.
>Essentially material that can't be detected by X-ray and thus is near impossible to find in the body after a bullet shatters or fragments inside the body. Resulting in reoccurring injuries caused by movement like internal bleeding, potentially poisoning and occasional infections.
Holy shit no.
>>
>>1725409
No, are you retarded. This is not the time
>>
>>1725441
>All I need is a shit-tonne of dynamite, the Scoutship and the Courier and I can fuck the NCR over severely but I can settle for a fusion cell powered motorbike instead of the Scoutship.
Just one? You ain't doing shit to the NCR with that plan mate.
>>
>>1725441
Oddball can't leak anything anymore, so something like this won't happen.

Covert acts can be found out, and we can't gurantee you level of scorched earth will work out. You're want to risk the alliance because your angry Oddball stole from us. It's done. Let it go.

We're one person, they are an entire state. We won't be weakening them that much. nowhere near as much as you seem to think.
>>
>>1725444
Also, we're using energy weapons. There are no such thing as non-detectable munitions in that regard, so it's kinda a non-option for us.

It's like asking whether we should be using broadhead arrow tips.
>>
>>1725437
>I mean, my morality shifts depending on how shit my work day was.
Fair enough.

>That depends entirely on the chemical / biological weapon. My main issue is how hard those are to control. I don't want to gas civilians by mistake but I could give a shit less about the Military targets.
My primary idea would be toxic gas release systems on our robots to shroud them from enemies and kill all those without gas masks and artillery / rockets to launch it towards them. Backed by WP, poisonous materials and other such things.

Biological weapons would mostly be things to kill plant and animal life thus eliminating enemy food sources. However things to induce blindness, deafness and other such conditions temporarily would also be advisable.

>I mean, I don't think they should be our first option, but taking them off the table is madness. Run a risk assessment similar to WW2 Japan invasion. If it costs more lives to take a place than nukes, Nuke them.
Agreed.

>Again, If the target is military, I could care less. Burn em. We just need to control it so it doesn't spread / burn civilians.
Fair enough but I'd argue that limited civilian casualties can prevent greater ones.

>If they don't want to get shot with fancy bullets, then don't attack us. Simple Shit.
Good.

>Eh, I don't like traps in general. Its hard to control who goes in and who goes out. Anti Tank landmines are one thing, but the kind of IED/suicide cars you see in the middle east now Im not so sure about.
Fair enough but in our wars against the NCR and MLA we will need every advantage.

>>1725444
>No.
Too bad.

>Again no, i consider those plant cultists in Texas though people who we can nuke.
You are insane if you think we can beat Elijah without nukes.

>Holy shit no.
Holy shit yes.

>>1725448
Well when is the time? The longer we wait the stronger they get and the less effect any actions will have.
>>
>>1725453
>Just one? You ain't doing shit to the NCR with that plan mate.
Blow a few bridges (give me a few sensors for trains or vehicles passing over and I can make it more effective by making sure they take a transport with them), cut down a few power lines (Could be achieved with a axe or blow torch or such depending on how they are building them) and break a few dams (easy ignoring any guards) or factories (remove key parts, break computers, burn design documents, corrupt files, light fuel dumps, etc) and suddenly they ain't looking so hot.

>>1725458
>Oddball can't leak anything anymore, so something like this won't happen.
True but another leak could happen.

>Covert acts can be found out
They can find a stealth 100 courier, in a stealth suit? Then we have no hope of winning outright.

>we can't guarantee your level of scorched earth will work out.
It certainly can't hurt our odds.

>You're want to risk the alliance because your angry Oddball stole from us.
I've been saying this for awhile.

>We're one person, they are an entire state. We won't be weakening them that much. nowhere near as much as you seem to think.
There were roughly 1500 "active" people (saboteurs, fighters. Not counting logistics staff and shit) in the IRA during the troubles and they fucked the UK over severely. Trust me when I say the Courier can do a large amount especially given the world of Fallout.

>>1725469
The Securitrons have a sub-machine-gun, the Bastions have a auto-cannon and the same armaments. You seemingly lack key knowledge of our forces.
>>
>>1725499
Just accept people aren't going with what you want.
>>
>>1725499
>Too bad.
You're talking like you have already got our military to use Biological and Chemical weapons, you haven't.
>You are insane if you think we can beat Elijah without nukes.
You are insane if you think that 1, he can only be stopped by nukes and 2, that he doesn't already have anti-nuke defenses.
>Holy shit yes.
We are not doing non-detectable fragmentation, i'd honestly prefer chemical weapons rather than that.
>>
>>1725413
Just waiting on this
>>
>>1725521

move on
>>
>>1725511
No.

>>1725513
>You're talking like you have already got our military to use Biological and Chemical weapons, you haven't.
Well ignoring one unfortunate event at NV, true but I guess I can see how what I wrote would come across like that, apologies.

>You are insane if you think that 1, he can only be stopped by nukes and 2, that he doesn't already have anti-nuke defenses.
1, he can only be stopped by nukes or another direct immediate strike to his command and control systems / the Sierra Madre. That or a long arduous and intensive war which no force in quest can currently facilitate.

>We are not doing non-detectable fragmentation, i'd honestly prefer chemical weapons rather than that.
Why? It only causes harm to people who fight us, only causes problems to those who survive and even then it can still be dealt with, it just takes more resources and time which is the goal of wounding soldiers in war.
>>
>>1725521
I dont have any further questions
>>
>>1725521
Move on

>>1725531
>>1725499
How do you think of visiting Mr.Bishop he would be the leader of New Reno before Oddnigger came and fuck his shit up
>>
>>1725521
I have no further questions that this machine would most likely be able to answer.


Also OP it occurs to me that the NCR wouldn't be able to produce Salient any-fucking-colour-it's-our-invention-you-fucking-cunts. As our design for the shit that turned the plant material into Salient required parts from a replicator.
>>
>>1725540
yeah, maybe we can try working with mr. Bishop. Would have to see how much power he retained after the nationalisation
>>
>>1725540
Assuming he is still around, it'd be worth a shot just for the information.
>>
>>1725553
>>1725557
He would be a cool 43 or 45 year old man. Never find out who his father was. So maybe we can help him that way, and help him undermine Oddball.
>>
>>1725533
>That or a long arduous and intensive war which no force in quest can currently facilitate.
We can do that if we get more hazard robots and equip then with Anti-hologram weapons and whatever can dismember(Like melee weapons)
>Why? It only causes harm to people who fight us, only causes problems to those who survive and even then it can still be dealt with, it just takes more resources and time which is the goal of wounding soldiers in war.
It's the "Slow painful death by internal bleeding and infections" i have a problem with.
>>
>>1725575
Problem is we don't know who his father is in game. Unless Marcus want to tell us the story of how the Chosen one went to New Reno and fucked Mr Bishop's daughter or wife.
>>
>>1725549
They probably created an inferior version that doesn't need a replicator to make.
>>
>>1725540
>>1725553
>>1725575
Who's Bishop?
>>
>>1725596
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bishop

He's the Chosen One's son.
>>
>>1725577
>We can do that if we get more hazard robots and equip then with Anti-hologram weapons and whatever can dismember(Like melee weapons)
No such anti-hologram weapon exists and even if they did we lack the numbers to win such a war.

>It's the "Slow painful death by internal bleeding and infections" i have a problem with.
Eh, only if they failed to remove them and the infections would only happen once or twice before the infection material runs out and the internal bleeding would only occur from physical exertion / movement.

>>1725590
True but that would be far harder seeing as we did it with our amazing science abilities and working examples where as they'd have to do it from scratch without either of those things and only a single follower's understanding.

Not to mention that even after we got those two things and made a few, we needed the BCR in order to get them started.
>>
>>1725613
>No such anti-hologram weapon exists and even if they did we lack the numbers to win such a war.
Except for the one we used against the Holograms and it worked, i don't remember the name though.
I am also planning to expand our robot army with Divide metal so i don't think numbers will be a problem.
>>
>>1725624
>Except for the one we used against the Holograms and it worked, i don't remember the name though.
We shot them, they fizzled a bit and then they got back to killing us.

>I am also planning to expand our robot army with Divide metal so i don't think numbers will be a problem.
It will be compared to an undying army and their hard-as-hell-to-kill assistants.
>>
>>1725613
We lack the numbers now, but we're building up. We'll get to where we need to be in time.

Oddball brought a follower with him. If he had plans, given a year and the OSI plugging away, I can see the NCR achieving it.

Especially since we used the replicators because we don't have electronics factories to make processors and CPUs
>>
>>1725629
>We shot them, they fizzled a bit and then they got back to killing us.
No they disappeared for some time but then respawened.
>It will be compared to an undying army and their hard-as-hell-to-kill assistants.
An undying army that can be disabled and assistants that can't reproduce without capturing humans(I think).
>>
At the shopping district there are several more places you can visit.

For some reason, even though you are a wealthy motherfucker, the sight of your dozen+ female companions and mothers oggling at the shopping windows makes you wince and feel your wallet lighten by the minute.

There are luxury department stores. With entire halves of the building catered specifically for men, and women. Perfumes, fine clothing, leather and geckoskin purses, items of all kinds.

There is an appliance store. At the very front is a "Model Home" which has ever appliance known to man, and a working Mr. Handy cooking things, boiling coffee, walking a pet dog, and cleaning. A television showing a program for the latest NCR Movie a brand new "Captain Cosmic" movie made in New Reno's filming center. >"NOW IN 2D AND HOLOVISION!"
The whole house advertises various appliances that are sold in the nearby store, with shelves lined up neatly. These prices are quite high, but it seems that doesn't stop flocks of people from buying them. You've never seen anything like it, not even in New Vegas.

There's also a Car dealership. Selling NCR model Cars. They make you do a credit check here and now for real only the wealthiest people can buy here, but seeing all these new cars shiny and painted and glimmering in the sun. Crowds iine up just to look at them, and watch the rare few who drive away with one.

Last but not least, a SUPER store. You have no idea what that means, but anything with the word "Super" behind it tends to be big. It's huge! It has, well, everything you can think of. There is this part called a "Grocery" where massive rows of canned are sold.

But not just canned goods. . .fresh vegetables and fruits, some that you have never seen before. Pinapple, watermelon, grapes, and more all kept moist and cold. Bread loves stacked like bricks in a wall. A "produce" ilse with a butcher that slices up any slab of brahmin you want. And, to your dismay, huge rows of Salient Purple as well as a cook book.
>>
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>>1725647
*deli isle

Your ladies want to buy things.

They want to buy a LOT of things.

Will you give them caps to buy things?
>>
>>1725653
yes.
>>
>>1725653
Sure but not too much.
>>
>>1725588
>>1725596
I say he would be pissed that Oddball came and took his city away from him. So he want to get it back. Giving us a inside man who knows New Reno like the back of his hand. He would have a base in the city to plan anything here.

Son of chosen one. We don't know that, but its possible we can find out for bishop.

>>1725629
To do your plan of blowing New Reno we need some help from the inside. Maybe Bishop can help, or at least cause enough problems in town to hurt the NCR.
>>
>>1725658
Yeah it would be good to get a man on the inside. Would have to find him and talk about such things.
>>
>>1725653
Buy fruits and vegetables that we never seem before. So we can plant our own in our place and other cloning shit.

Yes
>>
>>1725653
let the ladies buy things.
>>
>>1725633
>We lack the numbers now, but we're building up. We'll get to where we need to be in time.
Not quick enough. The cloud is growing even now so Elijah is getting strong enough to feel he can risk expanding and drawing attention.

>Oddball brought a follower with him. If he had plans, given a year and the OSI plugging away, I can see the NCR achieving it.
Nope. It took our entire research staff on drugs, supported by Brain with a functioning example to produce a functioning method of making more which requires technology the NCR couldn't have had access to since we seemingly hadn't gotten a understanding of replicators yet and even then we needed another thing they didn't have access to to get them to turn on.

>Especially since we used the replicators because we don't have electronics factories to make processors and CPUs
Nope. There was a specific part we needed to produce and the choice we took was to use parts from a replicator rather than the alternative solutions.

>>1725641
>No they disappeared for some time but then re-spawened.
I don't remember it like that but I ain't bothered to check.

>An undying army that can be disabled and assistants that can't reproduce without capturing humans(I think).
Yep but they are still far more numerous and deadly for the most part.

>>1725658
We don't need help from the inside by any means but I guess it couldn't hurt to have someone around to pick up the pieces and work for us.
>>
>>1725686
>>1725671
>>1725667
Oh yeah, if we want Mr. Bishop could come back home with us. He could set up his own casino in what used to be Oddball home in Newberry Springs.

Since he lost everything when NCR came

>>1725653
OP i vote we go looking for Mr. Bishop.
>>
>>1725710
Especially once we've destroyed everything Oddball has worked for.
>>
>>1725710
Do we have to build a Casino? I don't want to encourage gambling.
>>
>>1725710
Ill support looking for bishop
>>
>>1725710
I was thinking have him overthrow Oddball, and he becomes a man on the inside for us.
>>
>>1725655
>>1725657
>>1725668
>>1725671
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpbbuaIA3Ds

Sometimes you wonder who the richest Man in the World is.

Everyone thinks of House. But damned if you aren't going to give him a run for his money. It doesn't help that you find to your chagrin the NCR is charging higher for the NCR Dollar ratio to the Bottlecap every time you visit. This is bad, you're losing DOUBLE money this way!

They don't.

Even.

Barter.

Everything is a set price. What's on the sticker or on the ticket is what you get, and damned if everything isn't devised to enrich the state enterprise. This is witchcraft.

Thank the gods you have enough bottlecaps and valuables to trade to drown a person in.

Some buy more, some buy less. Some buy knicknacks, some buy clothes. They hug you, kiss you, some whisper they'll thank you later, some like Cass were never for handouts and just buy some better working clothes with their own money.

Everyone loads up the RV with their multitude of things, including you with the samples of fruit. This will help to reverse engineer them, either through planting or expanding your Salient Green.

Looking over the Salient Purple cookbook you find that its abilities exceed Salient Green.
>>
>>1725724
We don't, I want to see Mr. Bishop before doing any choices. I want to know what type of man he is first
>>
>>1725735
>Looking over the Salient Purple cookbook you find that its abilities exceed Salient Green.
Oh what the fuck.
>>1725736
I agree.
>>
>>1725735
Alright OP
Let's go looking for Mr.Bishop

buy books on our way just because for our library.
>>
>>1725746
Well we haven't actually put in any effort to improve Salient, so it's not unusual the people who did have something better.
>>
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>>1725139
You never want to hear the sound of a Cash Register again.

Last but not least you decide to visit their Medical Center.

Rather than run by followers, you find that all Medical Centers are now state run by the OSI Medical Division.

Inside a clinic, you find things are neat, clean, and orderly. Actually in your experience the followers and most every doctor were really poor on cleanliness standards, and this seems similar to the higher standards your mechanical Auto Docs insist on.

The medical clinic functions as a pharmacy. Most of the known drugs you have are here, and they do indeed sell implants of the standard variety. Though there are no illegal drugs here. You see they have plenty of Hyospray stocked.

You ask the desk lady to speak with their the doctor. And he appears before you.

Literally.

The hologram speaks. He wears a weird uniform for a doctor, not white but dark with dark colors. He has an NCR's bear insignia on his upper chest however.

"Greetings. I am a fully licensed and functional Medical Hologram.

Please, state the nature of the medical emergency."

>What do
>>
>>1725540
>How do you think of visiting Mr.Bishop he would be the leader of New Reno before Oddnigger came and fuck his shit up
Supporting this - let's look for him.
>>
>>1725799
Fuck this. Im done with this Ncr Shit.

Ill wander back in later.
>>
>>1725799
Fuck the Doctor, let's go look for Mr.Bishop
>>
Rolled 73 (1d100)

>>1725810
>>1725540
>>1725553
>>1725575
Alright, the search for Mr. Bishop!

Roll me 1d100!
>>
Rolled 83 (1d100)

>>1725821
>>
>>1725815
I have to agree. There is no way I can actually imagine them advancing this fast. Fuck it, it's lucky I've put so much time in and so few other good quests are running as of late or I'd just leave.
>>
>>1725819
Yeah, holodoctor's are a bit much for the NCR.
>>
>>1725829
>>1725836
>You
This definitely seems strange beyond imagining how the NCR is even capable of this.

Even considering the OSI, and the SHI, for all you've heard. . .BigMT had the only holographic technology you can think of.

It does occur to you that this Holo-Doctor speaks with an accent you've never seen before. And there's some sort of lag in his movements, as if he were recieving his data from very far away.

You just feel a mystery in your bones, something is wrong here
>>
>>1725761
>Well we haven't actually put in any effort to improve Salient, so it's not unusual the people who did have something better.
Very true.

This trip has proven 3 things to me:
1. We need to grab as much NCR stuff as we can to replicate at home
2. We need to open up replicator technology to our populace after we scan these items into the database. By providing this communal resource, we exceed the department store because it's essentially free
3. We need spies in the NCR pronto to watch them and steal tech

We could hack into the medical AI and open a backdoor for James or that other Intelligence AI to come in. They will probably continue to make these doctor holograms and they are likely linked together to a central medical database - so if we infect one we can infect the whole system. They then become our first hidden eyes.
>>
>>1725845
Oh. Ok. Something fishy is going on.
Crypto, maybe.
>>
Rolled 25 (1d100)

>>1725845
In fact let me check something
>>
>>1725845
>You just feel a mystery in your bones, something is wrong here
Looks like the NCR probably has adopted the old worlds unethical experimentation.
>>
>>1725852
>>1725850
>>1725829
>>1725869
From this trip of the NCR, it's making me mad. If we had never gone to NCR we would have never known what the type of thieves they are.

We need to do something about them.
>>
>>1725850
We can't do number 2 since it takes steel and Fissile materials to make stuff from replicators, we will have to wait until we get that non-fissile upgrade and lot's of metal before giving people personal replicators.
>>
>>1725850
We should build ZAX first, one of the personality types, SPI, is perfect for this. James is more surveillance and counter espionage
>>
>>1725877
I've already advised actions that would severely harm their industrial and economic abilities.


However we could bring this up diplomatically and forcibly ask for compensation for them supporting a traitor who leaked state secrets.
>>
>>1725877
some things are theivery, but we knew that Oddball would steal knowledge when he left.

but I think the hologram seems to be a third party with holotech. The NCR has a benefactor.
>>
>>1725887
My bet is on Elijah, seeing as we convinced him that the people of the wastes could be converted to work for him.

I mean, it makes sense since it wouldn't prevent him from continuing to spread the cloud or anything but it would get him resources and support.
>>
>>1725878
This wouldn't be personal, it we be communal with us providing a ration of materials for citizens to use until we unlock the non-fissile upgrade.

>>1725880
Agreed, taking over the divide and building the ZAX should be our immediate priorities.

Using James would be a good internediate solution though, as the ZAX could take some time.
>>
>>1725885
Their infrastructure is a symptom, not a disease.
They are getting this holographic technology from someone else. We need to find out who they are and get them to pull their support. Or else they would come out with something that easily repairs stuff.
>>
>>1725904
True but damaging their infrastructure and industry will slow their advancement and potentially help to turn the war in the favour of the MLA and Legion. Which will reduce the threat the NCR represents which is the largest we have encountered, ignoring Elijah.
>>
>>1725896
Elijah is iffy to me. He wouldn't touch the NCR with a ten foot pole. No way would he start dealing with the people who almost killed his chapter. Also the lag is concerning. Elijah has our holotech, so if he gave it to the NCR it would not have the lag ours has.

It's either Crypto or a new player in the game.
>>
>>1725896
It's either Crypto or Elijah.

Holo-tech may point to Elijah (along with the NCR's fascist tendencies) but my bet is crypto.

Their stone troopers and elite soldiers all seem like clones, that is tech beyond us or Elija at the moment.

Now assuming that he is helping them beyond just to get back at us, there would be a steady stream of 'interesting' women disappearing in the NCR, to solve his appetite.

We should investigate any reports along those lines while we're here.
>>
>>1725922
Just make a good turn actions about what we can do and I'll support it.
>>
>>1725900
Still has the same problem but less severe, i still recommend waiting until we get a reliable source of metal.
>Agreed, taking over the divide and building the ZAX should be our immediate priorities.
I say the priority should be Taking the Divide and getting a foothold in Utah, the ZAX seems to me like a longer project and at best we can complete it alongside Utah.
>>
>>1725926
>>1725929
Main point is that there is someone giving the NCR new tech that they shouldn't have access to and we need to stop them / the NCR's advancement.
>>
>>1725929
I was thinking we fix the sensor array on the mothership, and have it scan for any other saucers in the continent.

>>1725922
I think we have to go straight to the throat on this. THey have holotech, they can rebuild bridges. We need to focus on getting rid of the benefactor.

If it turns out they're sharing product and not production, then dealing with the benefactor cuts the NCR of on all sorts of good stuff. THat would weaken them more than one man and a sack of dynamite ever could.
>>
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>>1725861
>>1725845
Riddick steps in, and the Doctor seems to shift a bit and speak to him.

>Holo-doc
"Ah, I see you are wearing Solar Adaptive Visorwear."

>Riddick
"Yeah, what's it to you."

>Holo-doc
"Your model seems damaged. I could offer a replacement for a small fee. As a Furyan, protection of your low light sensitive eyes is a must on such a bright day."

Riddick takes off his goggles, steps up to him, and stares him in the eye.

>Riddick
"What do you know about Furya"

>Holo-doc
"I'm afraid I know nothing about that Sir."

>Riddick
"But you know I'm a Furyan."

>Holo-Doc
"Yes sir. Now, NCR Slags have developed special goggles for-"

>Riddick
"If you know I'm a Furyan, what do you know about where Furyan's come from"

>Holo-Doc
"I-

. . .

do not know sir."

The Hologram abruptly vanished.

>Desk Lady
"I'm sorry sir. The holodoctor appears to be uh, out for maintenance. Please come back at a later date."

You are politely, but firmly, asked to leave the medical clinic.
>>
>>1725945
>THat would weaken them more than one man and a sack of dynamite ever could.
Never doubt what a dozen destroyed railway bridges and blown tunnels will do to their war effort. Especially if we raid their military ammo dumps and such for more before lighting the place up like the fourth of July.
>>
>>1725947
CRYPTO! That fuck!
>>
>>1725953
You're thinking too small picture on this. While we blow up bridges and military targets, the benefactor, who >>1725947
seems to be Crypto, gives the NCR more shit. We find and kill Crypto and their tech advancement stalls.
>>
>>1725953
>>1725957
Let's do it, the last straw was broken when the NCR started doing this shit.

After our trip of course, it would put blame on us if things started happening right when we ask permission to come to the NCR

We need to kill Crypto first, and Oddball
>>
>>1725947
They're working with Crypto, time for war.
>>
>>1725963
True but if the war was to turn against the NCR then they'll possibly lose his support.

>>1725967
Yeah. We can get the Chinese on board by explaining what we think is happening and get our two groups unified in the face of this threat. After that we go and see the Shi. They'll listen to their communist brothers in arms.

After that...I guess we could try getting the MLA and Legion onside if we wanted to but I doubt either would be of much use. Better to skip straight to getting the rest of the Brotherhood of steel on-board. They are advanced, numerous and ideologically opposed to things like this.


>>1725979
Not yet, we still need to prepare but now is the time to sharpen our blades and ready our war-songs. For the day of battle approaches.


At least we know how they got all those clone soldiers then.
>>
>>1725967
>>1725979
Assassinate Crypto. We can't win a war.
>>
>>1725821
>>1725826
You run back to the history hologram person.

"Hey!

What happened to Mr. Bishop and the Bishop family?"

>Hologram
"Of the families, the Bishops fought the hardest and the longest. They were last seen escaping north east. There is not much known about where they are now. These gardens are named out of respect of their courage in the face of overwhelming odds, though they fought on the wrong side of civilization."
>>
>>1726002
Damn. He became an MLA warlord or something.
>>
>>1725987
Seconding this.

We need to go and see the Shi this trip! We should have DanDan with us, she can convince them to (covertly) join our side against Crypto.

We need to frame this right! It isn't a 'war against the NCR' it's a war for humanity!

We need Mr New Vegas to start produce propaganda about 'rumours of third party assistance to the NCR'senior leadership.
>>
>>1725979
Make sure to denounce Veni- i mean the NCR first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5meQkcCkg
>>1725985
>Not yet, we still need to prepare but now is the time to sharpen our blades and ready our war-songs. For the day of battle approaches.
Well this is a surprise, i agree with you completely. Even if you wanted to accept Crypto's deal.
>>
>>1725987
We don't know where he is and even if we did I think the NCR is going to be protecting him.


Our best hope is to strengthen the MLA and Legion enough that the war reestablishes a balance or even pushes against the NCR slightly so they have no resources to spare and are losing ground / numbers slightly.

Then we can tip the balance at a moments notice and with Niner in the MLA we can establish an uneasy truce to capture the NCR's shit and fight off the Legion. After which we can go our separate ways / get to warring and have the BOS come through their lands.


A complex plan but it could work.


>>1726006
Possibly.
>>
>>1726011
>We need Mr New Vegas to start produce propaganda about 'rumours of third party assistance to the NCR'senior leadership.
Didn't New Vegas say he's working for us on the radio? We can't have him do that.
>>
>>1726016
Why not just declare war on the NCR, forcing them to fight a 3 front war while ignoring all the other factions?
Of course this means we have to prepare first.
>>
>>1726016
Get the mothership sensors working and we could try to scan for saucers and alien technology. A large concentration in an odd place, and we can assume that is where the research and tech sharing labs are.

We should also get the Enclave and Brotherhood in on this. Set up XCOM and everything. This is a war for humanity.
>>
>>1726016
>Our best hope is to strengthen the MLA and Legion enough that the war reestablishes a balance
Agreed, while we attempt to find and assassinate Crypto to stall their tech development.

How do we support each party - without it fucking us over long term? What do we give them?
>>
>>1726014
>Even if you wanted to accept Crypto's deal.
Seeing what he has done for the NCR, I hope you can see why I feel it might've been worth it.

On the other hand he is a bastard that I will put to the torch and never trust again and I apologise for ever thinking we could.


Now, a question. Would you allow me to remove all moral constraints on war methods? I can promise we will win more battles but I can't promise that it will win us the war in a way we would like but considering the NCR's fascist tendencies, I doubt that is on the table outright...

>>1726023
Because maintaining peace allows us to continue trading for resources from them, getting tech and most importantly it means they won't be trying to kill us until we are ready. Plus we can do covert / less covert missions into their lands far easier.
>>
There's still plenty of turn time to visit somewhere, and you have yet to visit the NCR's centenniel.

>What do
>>
>>1726023
It don't help since we're so tiny, we less than 500 troops
>>
>>1726032
Give them tech that the other party has.

Like give the Legion cloning capability.
>>
>>1726032
They seem to be managing fine on their own. If we get the enclave and brotherhood and shi together we might be able to surgical strike and kill crypto without helping our enemies. This is a perfect excuse to get the Enclave to cooperate with us- Mutants are more human than crypto is.
>>
>>1726039
San francisco
>>
>>1726039
Go to San Fransisco to meet the Shi.

DanDan came with us, right? She will be instrumental.
>>
>>1726038
>Now, a question. Would you allow me to remove all moral constraints on war methods? I can promise we will win more battles but I can't promise that it will win us the war in a way we would like but considering the NCR's fascist tendencies, I doubt that is on the table outright...
Can you at least promise you will talk with our Companions about the use of such weapons and that you will use weapons that kill quickly instead of stuff like that non-detectable Fragmentation?
Also please no Biological weapons if we can help it they are to hard to control.
>>
>>1726041
Make up the difference with Superior tech and robots, also subterranean tunnels to make it a guerrilla war, and everybody knows how bad those wars can be.
>>
>>1726045
>This is a perfect excuse to get the Enclave to cooperate with us- Mutants are more human than crypto is.
Yup, I think it is as well.

We'll probably need some evidence to back up our claims before they join us as allies. Ditto with the Midwest BoS.
>>
>>1726038
>Now, a question. Would you allow me to remove all moral constraints on war methods?

I've already told you what I agree with, and you have my support for most of it.
>>
>>1726064
They have much more troops, tanks, air forces, that we can't take them on.

>>1726039
San Fransisco
>>
>>1726065
>We'll probably need some evidence to back up our claims before they join us as allies. Ditto with the Midwest BoS.
Do we have footage or corpses of the Aliens? That can work as proof and if not we have A MOTHERSHIP on our backyard.
The problem however will be how to unite the Enclave and Brotherhood, factions that have fought each other. Also The Midwestern BoS hate for nonhumans.
>>
>>1726064
Guerrilla wars work if you're okay with the enemy on your turf. We are not. Once the NCR gets into the mountain, we lose.
>>
>>1726080
Enemy of my enemy could work.
We probably have footage from the video call, so we can show he's a murderous rapist alien.
>>
>>1726076
>They have much more troops, tanks, air forces, that we can't take them on.
The desert will help against troops, we can make anti tank robots/tanks and we have those drone fighters that was suggested that can guard our skies.
>>1726082
Our territory ain't just the mountain, but an entire dessert.
Oh fuck i just realized by using guerrilla tactics we are once more one step closer to NOD
>>
>>1726027
>Get the mothership sensors working and we could try to scan for saucers and alien technology. A large concentration in an odd place, and we can assume that is where the research and tech sharing labs are.
Agreed but that might be beyond us.

Alternative solution: create a flight of fusion battery powered sensor drones and send them off to scout the NCR in an automated pattern.

>We should also get the Enclave and Brotherhood in on this. Set up XCOM and everything. This is a war for humanity.
Agreed. We can all agree, that even though we may want everyone else dead, that the alternative (another group winning) is far worse. Especially one that goes against all of our belief / ideological systems.

>>1726032
>Agreed, while we attempt to find and assassinate Crypto to stall their tech development.
Aye something like that. Might actually be worth reconsidering the use of nuclear assets if it comes down to the wire so to speak.

>How do we support each party - without it fucking us over long term? What do we give them?
Well we can give the MLA combat stimulants as I have previously suggested in return for getting slaves and such which will justify it to the NCR if they find out. We could also see about producing ammo and weapons or even improving their food production or something. Try and maybe make their civilisation a bit more, civilised?

As to the Legion, just give them better Brahmin, crops and other such things. As they won't use drugs as far as we know and technology is mostly off the table. We might get by with some gene-modding / FEV however.
>>
>>1726098
>Alternative solution: create a flight of fusion battery powered sensor drones and send them off to scout the NCR in an automated pattern.
And how will you prevent these drones from being shot down?
>>
>>1726098
>Agreed. We can all agree, that even though we may want everyone else dead, that the alternative (another group winning) is far worse. Especially one that goes against all of our belief / ideological systems.
We will have a problem with the Midwester BoS then cause we go against their ideological system of "remove mutants".
>>
>>1726056
I promise, that for as long as my memory serves me well and my intent is unaltered, to always get the opinion of our companions as to the use of non-conventional or "war crime" grade weapons.

As to biological ones, I make no promises as I have one or two ideas but they'll need testing and shit.

>>1726071
Great.

>>1726104
They can fly pretty high and if the NCR asks, just say we are getting a map of the world / that their sensors aren't that detailed and can only make out shit like rivers, lakes, roads and towns. Imply that we will give them a copy when we are done and even do so assuming they are willing to pay.
>>
>>1726120
>I promise, that for as long as my memory serves me well and my intent is unaltered, to always get the opinion of our companions as to the use of non-conventional or "war crime" grade weapons.
>As to biological ones, I make no promises as I have one or two ideas but they'll need testing and shit.
Good enough, i'll just vote no if i think your Biological weapons are a bad idea.
>>
>>1726111
True but I think they can look the other way on us sparing the near-human ones when we are pointing to a source of more and more abhumans like the stone men and shit. Not to mention they'd hate the NCR having such advanced tech.

Anyhow we aren't planning on making more FEV-mutants. Maybe some research into FEV but they don't need to know about that until either we've exhausted it or we've made humanity 2.0 without any bugs since they can't complain.
>>
I wonder if archimedes II would work over in the NCR when we find the location of the labs.

Otherwise, we should check to see if there are any old space weaponry satellites available. One good rods from god shower would kill it flat.
>>
>>1726098
We have the spy satellite plans. Build those, put in a cloaking field, have them go over NCR territory.

But we should avoid all out war on the NCR, Even if we do guerrilla ops, it's too easy for them to roll over anything we have. and nukes are useless without a target, and he would probably be fortified, so not much use even then.

It actually seems like the MLA is winning up north, so we don't have to really support them much. They did push the NCR out of the Drowned City.
>>
>>1726133
The biological weapons I have in mind are targeted at killing off the NCR's fuel supply and killing all "universal" blooded humans as the Stone-men and other clones are of this type however this one I plan on having be 100% lethal within 20 hours with low second wave infectivity so no worries about it spreading.
>>
>>1726139
Well if you think that will work i won't stop you, i was thinking of trying to convince the Midwestern BoS to stop the mutant labor camps anyway.
Well anyway, first goal next turns will be to get into the Divide and contact the Enclave again to make them our friends.
>>
>>1726153
Clones and humans are too similiar. Too easy for mutations to happen and start a plague.
>>
>>1726142
We did a list previously of all space weapons. Our count comes out to a few dozen volleys of small nuclear missiles and a single orbital laser with a 24 hour recharge. Plus anything Chinese in origin. However I have previously advised a method for converting the moon into a weapon.

>>1726143
>We have the spy satellite plans. Build those, put in a cloaking field, have them go over NCR territory.
True but we could just as well do that to the drones and they are not only more expendable but also more useful long term to have a stealth variant of.

>But we should avoid all out war on the NCR, Even if we do guerrilla ops, it's too easy for them to roll over anything we have. and nukes are useless without a target, and he would probably be fortified, so not much use even then.
True but if it comes down to it I am going to say we throw every last bullet, man, woman and child at beating the NCR.

>It actually seems like the MLA is winning up north, so we don't have to really support them much. They did push the NCR out of the Drowned City.
True but at an extreme cost and if anything we want the MLA over the Legion to be winning even more so so to be frank that is good. Since we can actually diplomatically talk to them possibly with Niner and shit.

>>1726161
>Well if you think that will work i won't stop you, i was thinking of trying to convince the Midwestern BoS to stop the mutant labor camps anyway.
That'd be nice but to be frank if we can get the Institute to meet us, they have a cure for super-mutants at least of their own make and could probably produce a new one. So that'd solve the problem.

>Well anyway, first goal next turns will be to get into the Divide and contact the Enclave again to make them our friends.
Yep.

>>1726162
>Clones and humans are too similar. Too easy for mutations to happen and start a plague.
Then use a agent with a low mutation rate. Something that doesn't kill by cell deaths but rather by disrupting chemical interactions or such.

Alternatively, make it so deadly, so quickly, that they don't get a chance to mutate.
>>
>>1726191
>That'd be nice but to be frank if we can get the Institute to meet us, they have a cure for super-mutants at least of their own make and could probably produce a new one. So that'd solve the problem.
Oh yea giving that to the Midwestern BoS would definitely solidify an alliance, we can even ask for them to give us their unwanted Ghouls in exchange.
>>
>>1726203
Yeah not to mention the fact that we can easily logic them into not persecuting mutants as much.
>>
>>1726143
>But we should avoid all out war on the NCR, Even if we do guerrilla ops, it's too easy for them to roll over anything we have.
Not really, as long as we negate the NCR's Vehicles and Airforce we can hold them off.
We also will probably get lot's of new tech from their salvage.
>>
>>1726203
>>1726207
I agree with both of those things
>>
>>1726191
>True but at an extreme cost and if anything we want the MLA over the Legion to be winning even more so so to be frank that is good. Since we can actually diplomatically talk to them possibly with Niner and shit.
I ain't doing shit with Niner besides killing, besides working with the MLA in any fashion will piss of the Midwestern BoS.
>>
You load up your truck before the ladies get any more ideas about spending, and head to San Francisco.

You are greeted by a sight of a green city. Vines and flowers grow upon the ancient ruins, making pink blossoms which fall onto the earth. Here and there, Ghouls and Hazmat soldiers harvest green glowing fruit from them, storing them in radioactive containers.

It is a peaceful, green place. Many people walk its streets.

Up above you see their flag, a golden dragon on a red background. Next to it is the flag of the two headed bear.

Below them, in gold and brass, a symbol of a Bear and a Dragon facing each other, as if hailing one another.

DanDan says she recognizes much of the writing and advertisements everywhere, and is excited to learn that she will be meeting chinese descendants of survivors of the war!

You park your RV in an NCR designated parking spot. There are different places to visit.

CHOOSE:
>The Palace
>The Docks
>The Dojo and Martial Arts District
>Chinatown (Shops, Restaurants, Armaments etc.)
>NCR Bunker
>Abandoned Hubologist District
>>
>>1726191
We could either one for the scouting things out, but I think the satellite would be harder to detect.

THen it's best not to trigger an all out war. Or when we kill crypto, we get evidence yaunker is supplying him with sex slaves, leak that somehow, take advantage of the chaos.

We amy be able to talk with niner, but convincing him or any of his buddies seems very difficult. No point have communications if it's just ignored.

The storm troopers and stone men probably use a human base. And controlling mutation isn't easy. It's just a result of chaos. Also if we make it so deadly it won't mutate, it might be so deadly it won't spread.
>>
>>1726221
>The Palace
bring Dandan
>>
>>1726221
>The Palace
Bring Dandan
>>
>>1726221
All locations in this order:

>The Palace
>The Dojo and Martial Arts District
>Chinatown (Shops, Restaurants, Armaments etc.)
>The Docks
>Abandoned Hubologist District
>NCR Bunker
>>
>>1726210
Thanks for reminding me of something. I assume everyone here is aware of the highly successful (though possibly not cost effective depending on how you look at it) German Flak towers of WW 2? I think we should make a more...modern version to truly control the skies around our glorious capital city.

>>1726219
True but we can point out to the Midwestern BOS that the MLA will die in time but the NCR is a threat which won't pass anywhere near as easily. Plus, they understand the concept of a disposable asset which is what the MLA are: a nice big meat shield to soak up everything the NCR can dish out, which we can finish off later.

>>1726221
>The Palace

We can deal with the rest later.


>>1726226
>We could either one for the scouting things out, but I think the satellite would be harder to detect.
Oh you meant that! Yeah true but it might not pick up what we need to find. Still having it would be great so I would support getting one built and up into space.

>THen it's best not to trigger an all out war. Or when we kill crypto, we get evidence yaunker is supplying him with sex slaves, leak that somehow, take advantage of the chaos.
True but an all out war is easier to do than that and less likely to backfire. We just need to be ready when we finally do it.

>We amy be able to talk with niner, but convincing him or any of his buddies seems very difficult. No point have communications if it's just ignored.
True but they understand the concept of two groups agreeing to not fight to take down a bigger, richer, target and we can easily point out that the alternative of us working with them, is us working against them.

>The storm troopers and stone men probably use a human base. And controlling mutation isn't easy. It's just a result of chaos. Also if we make it so deadly it won't mutate, it might be so deadly it won't spread.
Which would be ideal since it would contain the virus effectively to the zone of deployment which would be the front-lines.
>>
>>1726191
>They did push the NCR out of the Drowned City.
Actually, as far as you are aware, the Flooded City is still in NCR territory. Your forces helped evacuate infirm and disabled civilians and deliver much needed supplies.
>>
>>1726258
>German Flak towers.
Can't the Bastions already shoot down Aircraft with their Minigun and missiles?
>>
>>1726262
All the more reason to "help" the MLA to help us.
>>
>>1726271
Not really, as long as we don't attack the MLA they will continue to raid the NCR (which is why they attacked the Flooded city) drawing troops away from our front, we don't have to do anything to help the MLA besides opening another warfront.
>>
>>1726270
True but I am talking about established defences in our city to prevent the NCR trying anything if we end up at war. Plus, the Flak towers also worked as air-raid shelters, ammo stores, hospitals, command centres, bastions against ground assault and so on.

Not to mention it means we can have far larger guns / lasers for defensive purposes.
>>
>>1726270
We also tossed around TACT's with railguns, or laser turrets

>>1726271
Actually how things are going is rather good. The MLA threat is so good that it draws the NCR forces out to the borders. If they start pushing, NCR might cut their loses and pull inwards, consolidating in the strategic heartlands. Best to ensure the stalemate's get more intense, but not broken.
>>
>>1726258
>True but we can point out to the Midwestern BOS that the MLA will die in time but the NCR is a threat which won't pass anywhere near as easily. Plus, they understand the concept of a disposable asset which is what the MLA are: a nice big meat shield to soak up everything the NCR can dish out, which we can finish off later.
That won't work, the Midwestern HATES the MLA a lot more than the NCR. The Midwester is also at war with the MLA currently if i recall correctly so help the MLA is bad for us too.
>>
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>>1726231
>>1726251
>>1726256
The Steel Palace of the Shi is an impressive structure from above. Masses of concrete and steel.

And, you swear, you see soldiers working and pouring a familiar grey concrete in a Hexagonal Pattern.

>You
(FffffffFUCK Oddball)

In any case, the front of the Steel Palace is a large and, very obviously jurry-rigged, Vault Tec Door. Guarded by tall VC Troopers and some sort of Shi Trooper in advanced armor.

It resembles the Stealth Armor of the Crimson Dragoons, only looking less for stealth and more for armor and has some other accessories you spot for aiming and firepower. Both of them are armed, heavily, in Heavy Gauss or Heavy Plasma Rifles.

Behind and above them are some heavy Plasma Turrets, and normal laser turrets. You sense there are doors nearby, no doubt where robots will come from too.

>Shi Palace Guard
"Halt! No visitors to the Forbidden Palace.

Return to the civilian district."
>>
>>1726296
True but helping them will weaken the NCR and draw more of their strength away to fight them which we will be able to "measure" based off of the Garrisons of the towns near us. Making any future war easier.

>>1726300
Actually we don't know how well they are doing and them getting closer to their heart land works all the better. Since it cuts them off from their fuel supply / creation cities in the north which would greatly weaken the NCR. So they won't be willing or able to pull back unless they genuinely couldn't hold the line which they currently are for the most part.
>>
>>1726307
In chinese
I am the Executor of the Phoenix Commonwealth and would like to speak with your leader to arrange diplomatic relatioons with the people of the Shi
>>
>>1726307
>And, you swear, you see soldiers working and pouring a familiar grey concrete in a Hexagonal Pattern.
God dammit QM stop. You are making things unplayable here.
>>
>>1726303
>That won't work, the Midwestern HATES the MLA a lot more than the NCR.
True but they consider them a nuisance which will die in time and probably would understand our plan.

>The Midwestern is also at war with the MLA currently if i recall correctly so help the MLA is bad for us too.
True but the Midwestern BOS should be able to think long term enough to figure out that the MLA getting a bit stronger is not as bad as a stronger NCR.

>>1726307
I concur with the feelings of our Courier.


>>1726318
This. Maybe mention Dandan's title as a Crimson Dragoon / rep of another group of Chinese or something.
>>
>>1726318
Supporting

>>1726327
>God dammit QM stop. You are making things unplayable here.
It's giving us some challenges that we need to face, due to past rolls with Oddball and alien guy

>>1726307
I agree with how Courier is feeling
>>
>>1726318
1 for this
>>1726330
1 for this
>>
>>1726330
>True but they consider them a nuisance which will die in time and probably would understand our plan.
Which won't happen if we help the MLA, we should just not attack them so they can focus on the NCR.
>True but the Midwestern BOS should be able to think long term enough to figure out that the MLA getting a bit stronger is not as bad as a stronger NCR.
Nope, they REALLY hate the MLA.
>>
>>1726327
This. There was a line where them taking our shit was fair enough but I fail to believe that the Follow who understood chemistry / concrete also had a good enough understanding of the shit that makes Salient possible.

Choose one and stick with it for god sake, our Followers weren't all knowing super scientists in every field, we just had enough to cover most fields of research.
>>
>>1726334
>It's giving us some challenges that we need to face, due to past rolls with Oddball and alien guy
Challenges that are starting to grow impossible to beat and just downright unfair.
>>
>>1726330
They might settle for ignoring the MLA to deal with the NCR, but outright supporting them would be out of the question.
>>
>>1726337
>Which won't happen if we help the MLA, we should just not attack them so they can focus on the NCR.
It will still happen and I fail to see how us making them stronger to beat the NCR will result in them being strong enough to beat the MLA. Seeing as we can cut off our support at a moments notice.

>Nope, they REALLY hate the MLA.
No, they really really hate mutants and see the MLA as a bunch of dangerous misguided fools who aren't worth saving.

Seriously, you think they hate them like Nazi's hate the Jews or something.
>>
>>1726345
They don't even have to ignore the MLA, they can keep attacking them, the Midwestern just has to keep in mind not to push too hard since the MLA needs soldiers against the NCR.
>>
>>1726351
They do. They're mutants, and the only good mutant is an enslaved mutant. Or a dead one.
>>
>>1726345
I fail to see why the BOS wouldn't understand the concept of strengthening one enemy so they can beat another and then in turn be defeated.
>>
>>1726318
Supporting this + mention DanDan's position and have her talk to the guard in Mandarin.
>>
>>1726353
And manipulating them so they get killed killing your enemies is resulting in dead mutants plus dead enemies.
>>
>>1726356
>INB4 These guys are from Hong Kong and speak Cantonese.
>>
>>1726351
>It will still happen and I fail to see how us making them stronger to beat the NCR will result in them being strong enough to beat the MLA.|
Huh?
>No, they really really hate mutants and see the MLA as a bunch of dangerous misguided fools who aren't worth saving.
Nope, in thread 16 the Leader says
"I am building my strength to ensure this, but before I can stand up to them I must defeat a threat far more immediate and insidious, the Mutant Liberation Army must be annihilated at all cost."
That looks like hate to me.
>Seriously, you think they hate them like Nazi's hate the Jews or something.
>Labor gulags.
>>
>>1726363
>Huh?
It's five AM. I am going to call it a night before I mess anything more up.
>>
>>1726344
Fucking seriously, we have to deal with the Legion and their Herculese we created, Elijah, the MLA with Niner, the Midwestern BoS and their holocaust, Clay and his possible murder, possibly the Enclave if they decide we aren't pure enough and now GOD DAMN CRYPTO in the NCR with half of our best tech!
>>
>>1726318
I'll support talking up Dandan. so its....

>>1726336
QM three votes for introducing ourselves and Dandan in chinese
>>1726318
>>1726330
>>1726356
>>
Dandan steps forward, and pulls out a sword in its sheath. They aim their guns at her, but then she starts reciting something. A poem of sorts, or a vow, from what you understand of Chinese

The Shi Trooper motions for the VC trooper to lower his weapon, and as Dandan finishes the last stanza, the Shi Trooper replies with his own.

Dandan then explains that she is indeed a Crimson Dragoon, and not from the Shi but from other Chinese survivors of the war. That you are her husband, and that the both of you represent an entire Chinese settlement wanting to reconnect with others.

The Shi nods, and talks into his radio. A short while later, he gets a reply.

>Shi Trooper
"Both of you may see the Advisor to the Emperor, but you must be disarmed including your power armors.

Do not attempt to bring tiny weapons either, you will be X-Rayed. Understood?"
>>
>>1726391
Well we can maybe get the Enclave and Midwest to cooperate in dealing with Crypto, so that's 3 problems out of the way. Legion and MLA are far off from us so we have time.

Elijah is a wild card at the moment. He can strike at any time. We have a lot on our plate, but we have the time to deal with them.
>>
>>1726391
We don't need to fight them all we just got to have them fight against each other.

>>1726401
Understood
>>
>>1726401
yes. obey the nice guardsman.
>>
>>1726401
Understood
>>
>>1726403
If things go to plan during the Diplomacy and Negotiations.
There's also something i just found in thread 16 that i must mention.
>"So Eijah is alive and attempting wipe out the Legion using ancient technology and subservient mutants to his cause. That is not reason enough for me to be overtly hotile to him. So long as he does not intend to proliferate these monstrosities and intends to see them removed once he has re-established control over the Mojave, and see that human and brotherhood civilization returns to it, I cannot act against him."
So potentially Elijah might have already gotten the Midwestern BoS against us.
>>1726406
>We don't need to fight them all we just got to have them fight against each other.
They are already fighting each other.
>>
>>1726422
Cloud creates ghosts, so by using the cloud he will be mutating people. so we should be able to turn the Midwest on Elijah. Catherine 1 is an example of that. Dean can support.
>>
>>1726431
Oh yea.
>>
>>1726422
That also works as a logic-example of my usage of the MLA as an expendable force to weaken the NCR.
>>
>>1726480
How?
>>
May or may not pass out soon.

---

You are wearing your normal clothes, and standing in a great Ornate hallway decorated with gold and some jewels and other things.

There is a golden throne on the highest stairs behind a forcefield, it is empty. Next to it, a man sits on a smaller silver throne a few steps down. He is the Advisor to the Emperor.

>Advisor
"You are in the presence of the Emperor. Though he does not show himself, he hears you. For I am his ears, your words will reach the Emperor as surely as the Emperor has granted me his voice in this matter.

Speak. What do you bring to the Lord of Shi?"
>>
>Still angry at what we just learned.
Fucking hell at this point i think the only thing that can call me down is if we go back to the Canaanites to learn about Christianity just so i can start a crusade.
>>
>>1726486
>>
Actualy passing out, will respond in the morn. go ahead and reply/state yourself
>>
>>1726484
He is fine with the use of mutants to bring about the end of the enemies of the BOS and the MLA are mutants, at least in part. Thus he should be able to see how this logic can be transferred to my plan to enable them and drive them to attack the NCR.
>>
>>1726511
>Thus he should be able to see how this logic can be transferred to my plan to enable them and drive them to attack the NCR.
Again, see his dialogue here >>1726363
He hates the MLA far more than the NCR and any other faction and want's them annihilated.
>>
>>1726511
Yeah, but not uncontrolled as they go around raping and pillaging. Nazi Brotherhood won't let the damn mutant get their filthy hands on good pure humans. If they aren't directly under his yoke, they're need to die.
>>
>>1726520
Which they will be in good time but there is no reason we can't take advantage of their existence until then.

>>1726521
True but I think considering the BOS's history for treating every member of a group as the same, I think they'll not give a damn about the NCR's people since they are supporting cloning, the alien and all that other shit.
>>
>>1726541
>Which they will be in good time but there is no reason we can't take advantage of their existence until then.
This would be true except you want to strengthen them which the Midwestern won't like one bit.
>>
>>1726541
I think to the brotherhood, humans are humans. The government is guilty, but the people can come under the embrace of the brotherhood. So I don't think they'd take letting the MLA do their thing to the NCR civilians lightly.
>>
>>1726547
Aye because making them stronger will make them harm the NCR more. Especially if we can get Niner on our side and pushing for all efforts to be focused on the NCR and the bare minimum on the BOS.

Especially since most of the ways to strengthen them I have considered are either temporary or something that we can destroy / corrupt at a moments notice.
>>
>>1726554
But making them stronger makes mutants stronger which is unacceptable to them.
>>
>>1726559
So help the Legion, they are not mutant, but human. The BoS like them a bit more since they are not mutants
>>
>>1726548
If that was true they'd not try and wipe out the Enclave, the Institute and various other groups.

>>1726559
It isn't unacceptable to them. What is unacceptable is the MLA's continued existence and what I am advising will result in their eventual destruction and the death of all super-mutants at the hands of the NCR or them being left far weaker and thus far easier to eliminate.


Anyhow all this can be discussed and presented to them later.
>>
>>1726565
Yeah, but we kinda burned our bridge with Ceasar. He won't trust us and he doesn't care for technology. Also the Enclave might not appreciate that.

best to leave the MLA an Legion alone full stop.
>>
>>1726592
>>1726571
So once this thread is over we're going to have a boon.
So the more posts we do, the faster we get it,

>>1726592
I don't say really burned, Ceasar knows we didn't help with the Secrutions and his brain tumor. But so far, he doesn't know we were the cause of Cottoncove, or other things. That Legion that got away could have told Ceasar.

I said as long as we have a outfit, and make sure we look like someone else (We have the tech for that) we can help Legion without leading it back to us. Like giving info of NCR attacks, or traderoutes or other things. Their is also the North Legion we can help out.

>>1726571
For the NCR, they are cutting down trees to fuel their salient Purple, and large supply of wood. So if we go help out the North Legion and get them to win against the Legion in the North, the NCR will lose a major source of supplies.

MLA will we could give them drugs, the main problem we have is MAN POWER, MAN POWER is needed to get things build, planted, made, or build, I say we start making either more robots to farm, or robots to build shit, because we have alot of shit to build
>>
>>1726616
>MLA will we could give them drugs, the main problem we have is MAN POWER,
it ain't just manpower, but resources too, the only place i think we can get a bunch of resources to support our wareffort is Utah, they have some Volcanoes we can build those mantle drills on and water for our Hexcrete.
It's also the location where Joshua and the Canaanites are, with the Legion and MLA we will have to get a foothold there to protect them and get our Resources.
>>
>>1726616
Problem is industry used to make stuff for other people is industry not making stuff for our people. We need to really bring up production, like develop deap earth surveying for mineral gain.
>>
>>1726616
If given near absolute control of our civilisation I can state with no doubt in my mind that we will manage to sustain a far larger war effort than a nation our size should.

Primarily this would be achieved by automating the production of Hexcrete and automating our farming. As these two acts would free our population and our actions to work in many other industries and areas such as research, military and most importantly projects in Utah.

I would also suggest expanding the robotics factory as that would greatly increase our ability to do this shit in a shorter period of time.

But yeah, we should produce as much Hyprospray as we can and trade that for steel, automate the Hexcrete and get to work on mass producing the robotics needed for mass construction and military conquest.


>>1726630
Jet is produced using materials that are otherwise unused by our people and would be valued by the MLA. Thus we can sell large masses of that.
>>
>>1726649
Question - Why not use our Automatic robot production to boost our non combat robotic forces?

I/E - Build enough farming droids / mining droids / construction droids that we start gaining ground that way.
>>
>>1726649
We would have to start making jet though, which is turns that we aren't using building up and automating which is my point.

Also what do we say to the Shi person? We haven't voted on that yet.
>>
>>1726625
>>1726630
Right now, the Divide is our source of metal and Fissile. We just got a major boon to our fissile by exploring the cavern.

We just got some chickens, and cows. So we can make eggs and have better meat and milk than the bramain.

They could be useful to have in Utah as the Cows and Chickens will have more space to roam, and not been effected by rads.

Right now, we should make our nation a stronghold, that the NCR would not want to mess with or face heavy losses. Invest in Utah, for resources and other things.

We need more production and we need the resources to support that production. So we need more mines,

To get our HEX running, we just need to finish the Train and get the loading station build. Taking a Civ and Construct action, we need to explore the BigMt more so we can get the tech boost over the NCR.

>>1726649
>Primarily this would be achieved by automating the production of Hexcrete and automating our farming. As these two acts would free our population and our actions to work in many other industries and areas such as research, military and most importantly projects in Utah.

>I would also suggest expanding the robotics factory as that would greatly increase our ability to do this shit in a shorter period of time.

>But yeah, we should produce as much Hyprospray as we can and trade that for steel, automate the Hexcrete and get to work on mass producing the robotics needed for mass construction and military conquest.

To the things you said, Finish Train (Civ Action) Loading Station (Construct Action). Hyprospray (OP said Civ or Hero Action). Robotics Factory (Construct Action) Jet (Civ or Hero Action)

So we can get the shit done in 1 or 2 turns, depending on the rolls we can do it better than we thought
>>
>>1726655
If we build a shit ton of Construction droids we're be able to get twice the amount done or two project going.

What we need to do is expand the robot factory, either building it up or building a ZAX robot, but that itself takes turns to do.
The bigger the robot factory, the more robots we can make each turn.
>>
>>1726661
>To the things you said, Finish Train (Civ Action) Loading Station (Construct Action). Hyprospray (OP said Civ or Hero Action). Robotics Factory (Construct Action) Jet (Civ or Hero Action)
Don't forget the Divide, which will need hazard Axebots(Research and passive construction) then we can go get the metal(Hero and/or Military action)
I recommend doing the Axebots first then the train and Loading station while our Hero is away, then FEV lab and Robotics facility.
>>
>>1726669
Reminder that we have yet to actually use an action to build robots so we don't know how many the Factory can make for us, might be so much we run out of resources.
>>
>>1726655
We very much should do that.

>>1726661
Chickens seem very hardy. We can probably raise them in New Washington, Would also need to raise bugs or rats as feed though. The carnivorousness is really putting a squeeze on our energy efficiency.
>>
>>1726675
>>1726674
I say that we should use actions to build our robots, so we get that robots ready to go for the divide or farming, building or other things we need the robots to do.

>>1726678
We have some bramain that we don't really use, have about we raise them and see how long one bramin can feed a dozen chickens

We could also use the sierra machine to make some meat goods, but it's best to breed some bugs or rats.
>>
>>1726674
We also have to contact the Enclave again so that will take another hero or Civ action.
>>
>>1726669
Automate construction droids, immediately assign them to expanding the robot facility?
Repeat until done?
>>
>>1726682
>I say that we should use actions to build our robots, so we get that robots ready to go for the divide or farming, building or other things we need the robots to do.
I think our next turn should be.

>Research.
Hazard axebots.
>Passive construction.
Hazard axebots.
>Hero and Military.
Head into the Divide for salvage with Hazard Securitrons, HZ Bastions and HZ Axebots.

Our Civ and Construction can be whatever.
>>1726686
Fuck no it takes resources to build Robots and The Factory.
>>
>>1726690
next turn hero is still in NCR, so no leading attacks just yet.

civ can be finish the damn train CJ

construct can be the autoloaders at the mines
>>
>>1726655
That would be the plan but we can further accelerate the process by using our actual actions as well.

>>1726658
Jet can be produced in our Chemical mill and would merely require we start it's production realistically speaking.

As to the Shi, explain we are from the Phoenix, yada yada yada and that the person next to us is from a group of Chinese survivors and shit.

>>1726661
Yeah that'd work for the first turn.


The next turn after that I'd suggest using both our CIV and CON actions to create the new underground farms with the Hexcrete walls. Meanwhile we use our HERO action to sell the jet for slaves / scrap metal, use our MIL action to salvage / attack the divide and use our ROBO action to develop the correct version of the bomber I wanted: one that isn't a glorified smart bomb.

Turn after that, I'd suggest creating our textile mill (either CIV, CON or both) so we can make clothes, mattresses, pillows and such things along with potentially enhancing our robotics production and making a fuck ton of construction / mining robots. Meanwhile we use our ROBO action to refine our designs based off of the shit we encountered in the Divide and our MIL action to do another raid into the Divide. Lastly we use our HERO action to travel to the NV area and see if there are any ruins we can salvage for useful scrap: computers, radioactive material, robots, solar panels and so on.
>>
>>1726694
Yea sure just keep an eye out for our Resources, currently we have >>1719886
>>>>>>Materials: Scrap Metal (Average) Fissile (HUGE+++)
>>>>>Water: Average (Stable) [CAP: Average]
>>
>>1726690
>>1726686
>>>>>>Materials: Scrap Metal (Average) Fissile (HUGE+++)

This was our resources before the start of the turn. But we used some on making the very tiny cloning place, 10 bastion (light tanks) robots, and I guess we started building the green houses underground.


Keep this in mind since we have lot to do.
Finish Train (Civ Action) Loading Station (Construct Action). Hyprospray (OP said Civ or Hero Action). Robotics Factory (Construct Action) Jet (Civ or Hero Action)
Clear Divide (Military) Salvage Divide (Civ)
>>
>>1726697
>and use our ROBO action to develop the correct version of the bomber I wanted: one that isn't a glorified smart bomb.
Can't we need the Hazard Axebots first so we don't get swarmed by tunnelers in the Divide.
>>
>>1726703
You're wasting 2 actions on the Divide, just use the Military action.
Also again, we need Hazard axebots against tunnelers.
>>
>>1726706
Nah man. We got that thanks to bad rolls last time and it can be avoided fairly easily so long as we are willing to pull back when they start swarming.
>>
>>1726706
Dont we already have hazard axebots researched?
>>
>>1726694
I forgot, we need the Hero to be alongside the Divide mission to check and disarm traps, so i guess we are doing the Divide After next turn.
>>1726710
I guess we can use the Bastion turrets to mow down tunnelers but i'm uncomfortable with having no Axebots.
>>
>>1726714
No only HZ Bastions.
>>
>>1726716
Fair enough but if the Tunnelers aren't falling to 20mm shells fired at them in a semi-literal stream, I doubt that an axe was going to do much to help matters.

Plus, melee against Tunnellers seems like a bad idea.
>>
>>1726709
It's just a list of shit to do, Just showing the things we can do together putting it all together into something for next turn.

>>1726714
We have Axebots researched but not Hazard Axebots
>>
>>1726718
>>1726717
>>1726714
I said for the divide the 10 HZ Bastions will do a good job taking down the tunnels since they will be 20mm gating guns while the other robots get the loot from the divide
>>
>>1726718
You forget, the Axebots are literal Beyblades of death.
>>
>>1726703
Here's my idea for the turn:

>Hero
Lead our military forces in the Divide along with all military companions

>Civ
Use replicator to start building the base ZAX model

>Construction
Automated Hexacrete mines

>Passive robot production - hazard axe bots

>military
Secure the divide
>>
>>1726721
Well, its not like the divide will be cleared in one turn. Time enough for us to research both Hazard Axebots, and better robot bombers.
>>
>>1726721
If we have as few as 10 then I'd question the productivity of the factory or their cost but I still think they might prove worth it.

But we are agreed with the actions I have thus far proposed (>>1726649 / >>1726697)? Would anyone like me to lay them out as I would when OP asks for them?


>>1726723
Ha! And the Bastions are literal streams of death.
>>
>>1726726
>Lead our military forces in the Divide along with all military companions
Didn't QM say our Companions can't come to the Divide with us?
>>
>>1726726
Ncr trip takes 2 turns. Were doing a lot, so the current action probably ends at shady sands.

Also we should really build that spy satellite, sooner rather than later.
>>
>>1726726
Not going to work. Since we also need to finish the train.

>Hero
Lead our military forces in the Divide along with all military companions
(If he comes back from NCR in time)

>Civ
Finish Train

>Construction
Loading Station for Automated Hex mines

>Passive robot production - hazard axe bots

>military
Secure the divide

>>1726732
It could have only make 10 since they are large, so it can make more securitons or it can make non combat robots to help build,farm, or other
>>
>>1726732
>Ha! And the Bastions are literal streams of death.
Meh, 5/10.
A better one would be "And the Bastions are literal walking BRRRRTTTTs"
>>
>>1726732
When he asks. We have specifics to work out.
>>
>>1726739
We haven't researched Hazard Axebots yet, change the Civ action to Research.
>>
>>1726745
Well its a robot research, so we wouldn't have to change the civ, just to add it in.
>>
>>1726749
Ah right.
>>
>>1726745
>>1726749
I say since our robot factory doesn't make that much HZ robots, that it's best to finish the train so we can have auto Hex being haul in.

Making it bigger and more armored will also make it use more resources, and make less of them either passive or active in the robot factory
>>
>>1726753
>I say since our robot factory doesn't make that much HZ robots
I think it depends on the robot, our HZ Bastions are comparable to a Light tank.
>>
>>1726761
>>1726749
I say if we're going to make robots we should make robots that will increase our productive much faster than just making HZ robots.

As we need more farming robots, to get our people to not farm, but do either research or other works. Constructing robots, to expand building or build buildings much faster.

If we invest in non combat robots now, we get much more done later on. Then just focusing on military robots.
>>
>>1726780
>I say if we're going to make robots we should make robots that will increase our productive much faster than just making HZ robots.
Nah, we fist need resources and the Divide is the place to get some, then we build production Bots and everything else while continuing to salvage the Divide.
>>
>>1726780
I would suggest focusing on construction robots over farming robots. As many of our people aren't experienced in research and such and would take too long to be trained to solve our immediate problems.
>>
>>1726786
>>1726780
Im fine with that
>>
>>1726786
>I would suggest focusing on construction robots over farming robots. As many of our people aren't experienced in research and such and would take too long to be trained to solve our immediate problems.
This but i have mentioned before i would like to expand the school so we can begin teaching our Citizens more advanced Subjects.
>>1726789
I'm not, we need Military robots for the Divide first then we can focus on Production.
>>
Also thread 20 non-fissile replicators renders most of our problems a non-issue so long as we have enough time. Seriously with industrial scale replicators, we can just make robots like that. Not to mention the possibility of making a construction robot that mounts a similar system and literally beams the structure into place. Not to mention the prior described designs and ideas for battlefield resource reclamation and refinement.
>>
>>1726795
That can easily be done. Seeing as expanding the school won't take up metal and can be done with nothing but Hexcrete for the most part.
>>
>>1726789
>>1726786
>>1726795
I say we at least try going into the divide with the HZ bastion and other robots + companions and the courier himself.

So we can get the resources much faster to be used on the factory.

>>1726785
I believe that we can hold off on the HEX plant since construction uses both in buildings and Robots are going to be metal.

>>1726796
Here a something we can do, that make us use our time wisely.

>Hero
Lead our military forces in the Divide along with all military companions

>Civ
Expanding Robot Factory Or Using the action to make Construction robots

>Construction
Expanding Robot Factory

>Passive robot production - construction robots

>military
Secure the divide using our new HZ bastions, and TACT Bot

The point I'm making is to get our production going on the robots, and the Divide will be our source for the metal we're going to be using.
>>
>>1726801
Im not against going into the divide. Im merely supporting the production of construction droids.
>>
>>1726796
>Not to mention the possibility of making a construction robot that mounts a similar system and literally beams the structure into place.
I get that reference, i get and i like it.
>>
>>1726801
I am against deploying any non-expendable assets to the Divide. So no Courier or Companions.

I am willing to deploy the TACT however.


Also I'd argue that the trade of Hyposprays to the NCR is a better source of metal than the Divide. Especially if we create the underground farms to allow for more crops from less water, making larger scale production of Hypospray possible.
>>
>>1726810
For once, it was unintentional. Mind enlightening me?
>>
>>1726812
Have to send in the Courier since he has to disarm traps for the robots.
>>1726813
Supreme commander.
>>
>>1726807
>>1726810
Once we get that boon we can use that for ZAX or something else.

>>1726812
I agree with that.

To trade for Hypospray we can use our hero for that.

>Hero
Make Hypospray to trade with NCR

>Civ
Expanding Robot Factory Or Using the action to make Construction robots

>Construction
Expanding Robot Factory

>Passive robot production - construction robots

>military
Secure the divide

This allow use to get metal from Hypospray, Expand the Robot factory quickly and secure the divide at least a bit.
>>
>>1726818
Ill support this.
>>
>>1726815
>Have to send in the Courier since he has to disarm traps for the robots.
True but the last few times we never seemingly encountered those.

>Supreme commander.
Yeah I should've thought of that but it's 7:30.
>>
>>1726786
We just need to convince them to get de brained. Getting de brained also gives all of the mental augmentations.

Then they can use VR beds to train.

Actually, this could be a perk for people who choose to get de brained. No longer will they need to toil on the farms, only train and research in nice air conditioned labs.
>>
>>1726819
I put a or option, I wanted other anons take on it.

>Expanding Robot Factory Or Using the action to make Construction robots

Using the action for more bots, allow the factory to expand faster, and we have more after it expanded.
Or just have our people help build it as well.
>>
Also we need SDI up and running as fast as possible so we can really start messing with the NCR by doing mass sabotage.
>>
>>1726825
I don't recommend VR beds, they require lot's of medical support and if there's a blackout anyone using them dies.
>>
>>1726828
SDI?
>>
>>1726839
One of the AIs's we got.
>>
>>1726839
The intelligence / sabotage AI.
>>
>>1726834
Eh... That wasn't a problem before. We can have alien power cells as backup in case of black outs.