ARCHIVE: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Dungeon%20Life%20QuestPREVIOUS THREAD: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/1057114/CHARACTERS AND PLACES: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19gNVgtevar647l4ZumUaVH6GlJzvxLlDNKaH8DrQMWE/edit?usp=sharingQUEST BLOG (I know...): https://qm-vox.tumblr.com/You are Brianna la Croix, necromancer, and shortly before this awkward conversation with a one-armed ex-pirate just shy of being physically 18 you got help investing your newfound money from Princess Amalie, the royal for whom money is quite literally her job. It's a good thing you have that load off of your mind, because Gemma is joining the short, yet seemingly growing, list of people lining up to chop bits of their life span off so they can play with bones. "What is it you're expecting to learn?" you ask, plainly. "Necromancy."You don't know what you were expecting there.
>>1079735Gemma seems to have an ongoing (problem? talent? Let's say 'condition') where her facial expression is only capable of 'placid calm with optional serious stare' and 'I have literally just been stabbed'. You look at her, patiently awaiting your reply, and sigh. "Can you sit, please?"Nathan reaches to pull out a chair for Gemma. The young woman yanks it herself, directing the Optional Serious Stare at your husband, before taking her seat. "What is it you want to learn that you think necromancy will provide to you?" you ask, going for more explicit wording. "I have no idea what necromancy is fully capable of.""...What is it you want to achieve that you think necromancy can help you accomplish?" you press, carefully. Gemma moves her finger in circles on the table, looking down on it with distant, idle detachment. "I would like to stop being afraid of death. I have no fear of battle. I have fought before. I know how to survive. But I cannot fight time.""That seems like a poor coping mechanism," you point out."I apologize. Please direct me to the nearest physical embodiment of my mortality that I might fight or befriend it."Amy snorts coffee from her nose. You struggle not to smile at the deadpan delivery. "I do not have to ask you," Gemma points out. "There are other necromancers. The elf seemed competent. If she refuses me, I can seek the necromancers of the Cornucopia. Someone will teach me what I wish to know.""You have your whole life ahead of you," Nathan says, a little confused. "Why deliberately shorten it? I mean, yes, you just said why, but...why?""If I cannot spend it as I wish, my life is not yet mine," Gemma says quietly. A cup of coffee is placed in front of her; she immediately moves her finger to the spoon, stirring the cup in the same slow circles as before. > Agree to teach Gemma> Refuse> Write-in?
>>1079939> Write-in?"So, is it mainly the philosophy you desire, rather than having walking skeletons in attendance? Because while I could try for that, fair warning that I nearly fucked that up with River - was too busy fighting."
>>1079939>> Write-in?I think we would be leaning on the side to teach her but we need to know why she is doing this. Is she getting over her fear of death to be able to cope, or is she doing it to have power over death?
>>1079939>"I apologize. Please direct me to the nearest physical embodiment of my mortality that I might fight or befriend it."Ok, My opinion of her just shot way up.> Agree to teach Gemma> Refuse>Write inALL THE THINGS!but seriously; I suppose we could get her started, but we've got even less time now than we did when we were teaching River. She would need to proper teacher, and we can't provide that right now. I'm tempted to have her talk with River, actually; She might have some useful insights.
>>1080222She did say that she's willing to wait for you to be done with yo shit (admittedly near the end of the last thread):> "I'm a little busy for an apprentice," you tell her. > "I can wait," Gemma answers, with a one-armed shrug.
>>1079939> Explain to her that the La Croix traditions and customs are worlds away from what normal people think of as Necromancy.> Give her some time to learn how to /live/ again, before we talk about Death.She needs to learn how Brianna (and by extension River) do things before she actually apprentices with us. Maybe she can spend some time in the Lichyard, just helping out and figuring things out.>>1080222I figure that we can take her as our first apprentice, but her actual education will be taking place Post-Castration.
>>1080233I gotta admit, out of all the ways I see the epilogue going, "alive and healthy" isn't on the list. Dead, undead, DM, or crippled, just seem more likely. Promising to do things "after we're done" just seems... disingenuous, but maybe that's just me. Also, Every ID so far is some shade of green WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
I gotta hit bed. It's a bit early tonight but I gotta be up at 8 AM to do a thing so it is what it is. I'll pound back the coffee and write in the morning; votes, obviously, remain open. Questions, comments, discussion, feedback, and criticisms remain welcome and appreciated. Thank you all for reading and participating!We're coming up soon on the foreshortening of the quest, and thus the final arc.
>>1080296>Promising to do things "after we're done" just seems... disingenuous, but maybe that's just me.We could still start her up bit by bit on downtime before big official apprenticeing. Having more time to get used to things could be good for her too - she is after all a more complex case than regular people students.Hmm I wonder if many harpies would be enrolling if/when we got the school up.
>>1080316Cools. It feels good to have been here from start to finish.Like we discussed in previous threads, we have friends and allies to call on. Plus, it'll do worlds of good for the future unity and cooperation of the Dungeon for them to fight together against the man who was responsible for their suffering.
>>1079939>Agree to teach Emma eventually, assuming you survive. Because really, she's just the type of person to whom necromancy is serious business and isn't about raising a zombie army.
>>1080316Do you plan on running anything based in this setting again? Because this setting is one of my favorites
>>1079939>> Agree to teach Gemma
>>1080673The good Lich has mentioned that he might do something set further in the future, about a century or more.> Mortis Academy is established. The grounds are dotted with statues of Sir Fetch, and students are regularly pranked by ghosts.> Flitter is a regular guest speaker and lecturer, while Kat has gone on to become an explorer, adventurer, and possibly even a parent.> The Gear-Grinders settlement in the Broken Jaw is now a booming clockwork city. Natalia's remains are buried in Glen, but a marvelous hundred foot tall statue is erected in her honor.> Azrael (Lora in private with her few priests and Chosen like Emily) has risen to join the other Gods.> Brianna and Amy's twenty-odd kids with Nate are old, have children and grandchildren of their own.> River and Lark are also married and with kids. She also teaches at the Academy, and Lark's business has skyrocketed in popularity.> Jewel is a now a world renowned doctor and surgeon. Maybe she founds her own hospital in the Dungeon?There is just so much that has happened, it'll be damned cool to see the results of all of Brianna & Necrofowl Inc. efforts.
>>1080784> Brianna and Amy's twenty-odd kids with Nate are old, have children and grandchildren of their own.Is it wrong for me to be envious of Nate and his crushed pelvis?
>>1080886Not at all.
>>1080784This is hopelessly optimistic, but ya know, that's ok. Sometimes looking at the best case is just encouraging.
Called, writing. >>1080673This is a thing I did say >>1080784> The good Lich has mentioned that he might do something set further in the future, about a century or more.But...to be honest I don't know when or if I'll do such a thing. You have to remember, this quest was born to die. I figured it'd give me the chance to cut my teeth on the format, that it would fail within 20 threads and let me start the quest I'd intended on running in the first place with some first-hand experience and wisdom. Obviously that did not happen but that does mean I'm sitting on a setting that I didn't make a whole lot of plans for! As I've run the quest and you folks have made your choices and decisions, I've gotten ideas for how it might progress but ultimately there's a lot of stuff I still need to sketch in.
>>1081180Any ETA on Cinderella Sanction proper at this point?
>>1081205Depends on when DLQ ends. This year contains at least two non-negotiable hiatuses, the first being my son's annual visit over the summer, and the second being his bonus visit over Christmas, something my ex and I have been working together on to make happen. If DLQ ends in the next month or so I can finish out my notes, switch gears, and start Cinderella Sanction up in time for the summer break to not be too disruptive. Otherwise it'll have to start either right after my son goes back to Kansas, or early next year. I would rather /not/ have to start it next year but family is gonna come first, no matter how much I like y'all.
>>1079939You look at that calm, serious face, and take a sip of your own coffee. "It sounds like you're mainly after the philosophy," you note. "Rather than having an army following you about.""You have no army," Gemma points out. "The creation of the undead is part of the experience, is it not?""It is," you agree, mildly. "But it's still nice to know you're not after armies. Those sorts of necromancers...they aren't people who have made peace with death."Gemma nods, but says nothing. "I am willing to teach you," you tell her, at last. "But it will, of necessity, need to wait until I've concluded my business with the angel. You are not the first person to ask me to teach them, or the first person whose request I've deferred.""That hatchling was adorable," Amy comments, between desperate attempts to blow the rest of the coffee out of her nose and into a handkerchief. "At some point I do have to stop turning students away," you note. "So if you're willing to wait, I'm willing to teach. Do we have an accord?""Yes," Gemma agrees, offering her hand out. You shake it, firmly, and the ex-pirate gets up without a further word and goes back to her own table, leaving the coffee she hadn't quite asked for behind. * * * *You still have one more god to talk to.> Seek out the local shrine to Red Troth> He can talk to you on his own damn time* * * *Reunion has been quiet, and you're not sure why. Thus far you've respected the blade's space but there are some things to resolve between the two of you and...well, maybe you're not the wielder it needs. > Try to talk it out with the blade> Offer to turn it over to the Hardhome la Croix when their representative arrives> Just give Reunion its space
>>1081368>> Seek out the local shrine to Red Troth> Try to talk it out with the blade
>>1081368>> Seek out the local shrine to Red Troth>> Try to talk it out with the blade
>>1081368>Seek out the local shrine to Red TrothKept the guy waiting long enough.>Try to talk it out with the bladeJust assuming we're not the right person without trying to understand its feelings? Nah man.
>>1081368>> Seek out the local shrine to Red TrothHe's been patient, and we otherwise risk him wanting to chat at an inconvenient time.> Try to talk it out with the bladeIf we're going to keep wearing it, we need to square things up between us.I know we're a necromancer, and a lot of the people we've helped along our way see us as a hero of sorts and want to emulate us, but surely we should be directing some of these people to other magical disciplines besides necromancy and healing, right? Necromancy doesn't have something special about it that makes it a good fit for all sorts, does it? Sorry, this is just something that's been bugging me.
>>1081445Some of it is wanting to emulate you, yes. Some of it is that in certain senses necromancy is easier to practice. You don't need a strong will to practice it, you just need the appropriate sacrifice and education. Maybe more importantly, the people who have asked you about learning necromancy have been people whose lives were touched by death and tragedy. The two are inherently related.
I gotta hit work. Will update again just past midnight; votes remain open.
>>1081368> Seek out the local shrine to Red Troth> Try to talk it out with the bladeWhat's up, Angel blade? Something on your mind?
>>1081368> Seek out the local shrine to Red Troth> Try to talk it out with the blade
>>1081368> Seek out the local shrine to Red TrothWatch him be the grumpy uncle. "You made me wait this long? Fuckin' kids these days."> Try to talk it out with the blade.I'm thinking that Reunion is confused and upset because Brianna and River are not what it remembers the La Croix being. That the family and bloodline it belonged to is now quite different from what it knew.It's kinda like someone who is born and raised in the US, but leaves at 20 and doesn't come back home until they're 80. Most of the people and things they knew are either gone or vastly changed.
Alright folks, usual question - what do you want to do, accomplish, or check on during this interlude?
>>1082468Combat training, research and relaxation. Somebody is making waffles, or whatever comes closest, and we eat all of them. Then find out if there's a spell for Nate to carry our baby.
>>1082831Nathan is not a seahorse.
>>1082846No making Nate our wife; got it.
>>1082468> Check in with the adopted daughteru. See how her training has progressed.> Happy times with Nate and Amy. Doesn't even have to be lewd.> Arranging a special day for Lark and River. He might be worried about her after she died and came back.> Introduce Rachael to Bridgette and Kells.> Talk with Henrietta about how things are progressing up top, snicker about Briony and Talon.> Arrange more exercises for the troops in the Dungeon, get them ready for the final battle.We've also got the upgrades for Skoll and Hati. I'm thinking we either;> Improve their intelligence and initiative. They are now smarter than the average bear.OR> Add the Ice Shards to their forms, giving them chilled attacks like Kat.Brianna should also look into finally mastering some of her other arts, like the Shade Transformation. Being able to pop in and out of corporeal form without losing the armor would be great.
>>1082468Make the Final Rounds. The finale is around the corner, right? Check in and see if everyone is operating well on their own and cooperating without too much difficulty. Find out if there's anything left to do that Bri is the only one able.Take some time to help River through her revival reacclaimation process. Be there for her, and allow her time to rest and process what went down. Actually internalize it, y'know?[Insert Beach Episode Here]I also think that Bri and crew (Jewel and whoever else too, maybe) should go in a nice hike, probably somewhere in the dungeon but above ground could work too. Nothing more than half a day, of course. Let's try and slot in some moments to elicit smiles and what have you. If we can verify that everything is running well enough without our direct involvement, then it would be a fair tine to march into the endgame, don't ya think?
>>1082468Mainly make sure that all the various plans put in motion on previous floors are going along smoothly, no major issues have come up, etc, etc.Probably want a bit of a mopup on Jacks level; with Jack gone, who's running it?I'd love to see a long talk with Kells, to see how hes feeling, adapting, etc.And honestly, start up one more plan: The Plan D - becuae plan a, b, and c have been messed up enough. Plan D Is having the Library chainholder and Natalia researching enough Words and plans to make a either reversal, or safety bubble if Richard DOES get far enough to be facing world destruction. Also plans for marshalling the floors and armies to step in if Necofowl, Inc, doesn't quite clinch the victory.
My internet seems to be slightly more dead than my childhood dreams. Bear with me; can't exactly get tech support at one in the morning.
>>1083697What are your childhood dreams?
>>1084427Honestly, mostly stupid, goofy shit. One of them actually came true (getting a novel published) but a bunch were stuff like...like when I was a kid I had this thing for comic-book style genetic engineering and then when I figured out that's not how it works I kinda dumped science as a career entirely. Laugh at my petty disappointment.TL;DR it's an easy bitter line to drop about something I'm actually not bitter about. Most of 'em are worth a laugh. Also called, writing.
>>1081368"I'm going to spend some time with my sw-" is what you start to tell your spouses, before you realize where this sentence is going and change course, "-with Reunion, while we're all still...recovering, and up here.""How long are we going to stay up here?" Amy asks. "Until I'm ready to go back down," you admit, a little uncomfortably. "There's some things to take care of and...honestly, I want a clear head. I'd like /everyone/ to have a clear head. Reunion's had a long time without a whole lot of anyone to talk to, so I'm gonna set some time aside for that.""Okay, but just -" Nate's words of wisdom are cut off by Amy grabbing him and walking off, the Hero bouncing weightlessly behind her. "We'll be back at sundown!" Amy calls cheerfully. "Why am I being kidnapped?" Nathan asks, almost desperately. "We need to talk about your bad case of the stupid," Amy tells him. <...Who are those two to you, exactly?> Reunion asks. "That's my husband and wife," you tell the blade. <You do know the one is a half-breed, right?>"I'm going to pretend you didn't say that. Let's head up to what I will tentatively refer to as 'my' room, shall we?"You head up, shrugging off your coat and setting it and your hat on the provided rack. You get comfortable, then draw Reunion and set it across your lap while you sit cross-legged on the bed. "You've been awfully quiet," you note. <...I am unused to sharing communication space with someone else. That chicken can hear everything I say.>"That chicken is my familiar and a part of me," you tell the blade, patiently. "I take it Jackson did not have a familiar?"<He did not. You are only my second wielder. Did you know that? All of this time, and only two hands have ever raised me in anger or to fulfill my purpose.>You let out a long breath, then nod. "I imagine that has to be...difficult, for you. You were made for a purpose."<I was abandoned for that purpose. Did Jackson ever find his wife?>"The world may never know," you admit. You give the machete its silence, for awhile. Reunion sits on your lap, not speaking, but it emanates a nameless sorrow that sits atop a roil of emotion. When it does speak again, it is in a voice tense with anger and confusion. <Why did they worship me?>> Hazard a guess
>>1084665> "You were a symbol of something sacred to our family, of how we changed for the better. So many of our kin have looked to Jackson as a figure of inspiration, and you were always by his side. Like how Sleep is always with River."> "I cannot tell you why Jackson left you here in the Ironlands. Maybe he felt that you still had another purpose to serve here, but that he would not be the one to lead you to it. I cannot say for certain."..I'm actually kind of out of it, but this is what I've got. 'M headin' to work right now, and maybe other anons will have a better explanation.
>>1084665>"They considered you not as an object to be used, but an 'artifact' fit only for the use of those who could prove themselves against a nebulous standard.">"...I mean, that's all an assumption, but it's the general mindset that comes along with putting a very powerful magical weapon in 'safekeeping.' Great power, responsibility, can't fall into the wrong hands, so on and so forth.">"Anyway, if I have anything to say about it, and if you're cool with it, I plan to see you put to practical use for the rest of my days, and perhaps beyond that."
>>1084665This is a tough one, because we actually have zero idea. Like, last we heard, Reunion got traded to a pirate lord before Jackson fucked off into the great unknown. And I really doubt a pirate lord would worship a weapon he traded for. >Couldn't tell you without meeting them, and I think the majority of those folkd are dead right now. But at a guess... you represented something to them. Could've been Jackson, could've been that pirate, could be an angel. It could've been the fact that you're a sign of how anything can die, or that people are people are willing to trade and give up pretty much anything for the pursuit of love.
>>1084665>It may have something to do with the fact that you are made from angel bone, they thought of you as an artifact, not something that should be used, to most people, the idea of a talking, inanimate object is preposterous, I'm sorry it took so long for another La Croix to come and claim you.
>>1084665>> Hazard a guessNote with a massive caveat of 'guess'.You were holy, magical, and sacred. Noone felt worthy to claim you but you had enough awe to them they could worship that. A piece of a dead angel is close enough to a piece of god for most people.Maybe bring up Seraphina and her temple.
>>1084665>"They considered you not as an object to be used, but an 'artifact' fit only for the use of those who could prove themselves against a nebulous standard.">It may have something to do with the fact that you are made from angel bone, they thought of you as an artifact, not something that should be usedsomething along these lines.
One day I'm going to learn not to stay up until 7 AM. I'll call and write after coffee, in about thirty or so.
Called (way late), writing shortly.
>>1084665You think about it for a bit; the question deserves your honest consideration. "I didn't know the people of Sprawl," you begin, at length. "But at a bet, being made from angel bone was part of it. Makes it a little hard for a lot of people to see you as a tool to be used instead of something sacred, to be kept safe."<That is not what I meant> Reunion says distantly. <...I had no power over them. In that box I was useless. And yet, they came to me. They would pray for relief from their sorrows. They would thank me for their bounties, for their joys. I did nothing. I could do nothing, and yet they came, year after year. They worshiped me and I had no power over them.>You pick the blade up. "That sounds difficult," you murmur, sympathetically. <Nothing is as I thought it would be.>"I know that feeling," you agree. "But...hell, I don't know if this will make you feel better or not, but the family never forgot about Jackson or about you. You both have been legends to us, and Jackson la Croix's story is told to our children and their children. He's never been forgotten, and neither have you."<Thank you, for taking this time with me.>"You can think and feel, I dare say I could do no less," you say with a shrug. "Can I tell you about how I got here, doing all this?"<Please, do.>* * * *Briony lets you into Glen's armory and shows you to the small altar near the back of it. She leaves you to have your privacy, leaving the door unlocked behind you. You debate between kneeling and standing, then decide to stand. You set a hand on the altar and close your eyes. <It is nice to meet you at last, Brianna la Croix> a solemn voice, indefinably male, says into your mind. <Would you prefer to do this here, or in my realm?>> In the armory> Arcadia
>>1087522>>ArcadiaFeed us more of your amazing descriptions, Vox~!
>>1087522>> ArcadiaI believe all the others have had us in their domain (except maybe lady of ravens?), might as well see his. I'm really curious about this guy.
>>1087547Wren the Rhymer also did not.
>>1087522> ArcadiaSomething something it'll be fun
>>1087522>ArcadiaSo long as you've got good coffee there that is.
>>1087522"If the invitation is there, I would be honored to visit your home in Arcadia," you say aloud. You become aware of a separation, by now almost familiar, and catch a brief glimpse of your body before your soul is whisked far away from it. Red Troth's domain is a library, like none you've ever seen. The structure is the size of a cathedral or larger, lit by white witchflames that float in gentle orbits. The books that line the towering shelves are titled and filed in a variety of languages and bound in a dozen, a hundred, a thousand different ways, in leather and cloth and wood. There is a faint coppery scent in the air, the faint echo of death, but neither are strong or precisely unpleasant, just /present/. You look around, brushing the books with your fingertips. The few titles you can read suggest that they are records of some kind, histories or reports, perhaps, but you leave them in their places on the shelves. The faint feeling of death is getting closer though, curiously, no stronger, and you follow the taste of it through intersections of shelves, across narrow bridges laid over yawning gaps in the floorboards, beneath chandeliers that burn with witchlight that flickers and dances. Always, on the other side of the stacks, you hear movement, but you see no one. <This is profoundly strange. Is this not the domain of the Red God?> Reunion asks. "Gods have a frustrating similarity with mortals, I've found," you answer, still following the trail of that faint, echoing taste of death. <That being?>"A sense of humor."You come to a door and use the knocker, politely. That same, indefinably male voice from before bids you to enter. Red Troth, God of Strife, is waiting in a small, book-lined room dominated almost entirely by a table. A flat map of the world, covered in tokens and figurines that shift and slide of their own accord, takes up the entirety of the table. The display of color and movement is dazzling, rapid and yet somehow easily comprehensible. You need no legend to tell that /this/ indicates an army, /that/ is a ship struggling through a storm, that these or those are animals and monsters. The Red God wears the form of a goblin, his left ear mangled, in a sharp-cut suit. He beckons you closer, and you move to stand with him near the map. "What is this for?" you ask, fascinated. "For you, in a sense," Red Troth answers. "You see here, represented on this map, every thing that can think or feel, or which bears or shelters things that can think or feel, which is currently engaged in conflict.""This has to be almost everything living and a lot of things that are dead," you note, fascinated. "Even so. As visual metaphors go, it is one of my favorites. Tell me, why did you follow the scent of death to me?"You shrug. "Either someone needed help, or it was you. Either way, I was needed here."
>>1087881The Red God laughs, with genuine mirth, and gives you a toothy grin. "How logical, necromancer. I believe I approve." He rubs his chin for a moment before beckoning to an unseen presence. Another goblin - the young man shares remarkable similarities to the Red God, though his sparse hair is flecked here and there with feathers that grow from his scalp - brings forth a sheaf of paper and a pen. Your host writes something and blows it towards a pawn that represents one of his Chosen. The paper folds itself as it goes, becoming smaller and smaller, until you know it is only the words, given to Red Troth's servant as orders to be followed. "Why a library?" you ask, hoping the question is not rude. "I and my children record every conflict in Creation. Its belligerents, its objectives, its resolution. All that can be known of each struggle, from the smallest insect to the movements of nations and the fury of gods is enshrined here, to be studied, known, and examined." Red Troth gestures to the map. "Would you care to move a piece?""Would it influence the world?" you ask, hesitantly. "Very much so," the Red God agrees. > Attempt to cause a conflict> Attempt to prevent a conflict> Decline the Red God's offer
>>1087886>> Decline the Red God's offer"Just at random, I would rather not. Sure, I would love to prevent more death... But all the battles, they have reasons behind them - somebody wanted something and was desperate enough to try and take it by force. Breaking the conflict with divine intervention without work on the ground will not settle anything for long, and the war will return even more fierce soon enough."
>>1087886>> Decline the Red God's offer>>1087892This anon has the right of it, even if I might not like his wording. People are always fighting and always struggling, but just moving a piece would just affect the fighting, not the reasons why they fight.At the same time, just randomly /causing/ a fight is... not something I really like.
>Cause a conflictMore bodies to necromance.>>1087892>>1087903A god gives you the chance to alter the world and you're just like, nah, I'm cool, I don't like godlike power.
>>1087908Anyway, I respectfully disagree with your view point, on the grounds that Zombie Armies are literally the opposite of what we want. Also, randomly forcing people to fight just for the hell of it seems really out of character and like a terribly mean decision.
>>1087911IMHO, when the QM offers you the chance to do something cool, the most fun option is to do it, whether or not it's safe.
>Decline the Red God's offerWe're realy not trying to be a goddess or anything, just doing what needs doing. We don't need to be the cause of anything. And we know nothing about the conflicts or their end results. It's a heavy responsibility we don't need.
>>1087886> Decline the Red God's offerThough it would be cool to try, we'll have to live with our action. Causing a conflict as we please or preventing it would have far reaching consequences. Even the smallest creatures can influence nations.
>>1087903>At the same time, just randomly /causing/ a fight is... not something I really like.In certain circumstances, jumpstartin one could be good - such as for example a revolution against a tyrant before he stomps the populace into the ground enough to erase the chances of success. But that is again on "no information" problem and starting a random one is not cool.>>1087908>A god gives you the chance to alter the world and you're just like, nah, I'm cool, I don't like godlike power.Godlike power means godlike responsibility. And shuffling wars randomly is irresponsible to the max.
>>1087886> Decline the Red God's offer>>1087892this guy is right.>>1087908you must be new here, our job isn't to make more war an death, also not to technically stop others from their deaths, but we don't touch the thing all the same. >>1087912Gonna be a solid no to that one.
>>1087886> Accept the Red God's offer> Move ourselves.
>>1087969While would be a very interesting move, we and our conflicts are in the Dungeon which his direct power is barred from.
>>1087886> Decline the Red God's offerI don't really have to say anything more, everyone else seems to have already said what I was thinking.Though, guys, how could you miss this?> Another goblin - the young man shares remarkable similarities to the Red God, though his sparse hair is flecked here and there with feathers that grow from his scalp - brings forth a sheaf of paper and a pen.Either Red Troth and the Lady of Ravens shagged, or some of their followers did. Either way, fun times.
>>1087970*we or rather our conflicts
>>1087886>> Decline the Red God's offer
> Decline the Red God's offerHmyes. Let's not touch any of the big red buttons without knowing what they're hooked up to.
>>1087886> Decline the Red God's offerUnless we could look through Red Troth's library for an indefinite amount of time to figure out the reprocussions of messing with reality, it seems like a bad idea to mess with something we found out about a few seconds ago.I'm assuming the Dungeon isn't on the map?
>>1088059>I'm assuming the Dungeon isn't on the map?I don't think we would be in this mess if the gods could see what's going on inside it....altough they can apparently act inside it, they just chose not to. We're not limited by that.You may have a rather good point.
>>1088070>They just chose not to.I hope that they do act if things end up going to absolute apocalyptic shit. Inaction is pretty bad too.
>>1088086It's difficult to say if they'd intervene. The Gods (at least some of them) have decided that changing things messes up the world more than it helps. Even if the world was ending, they might decide to let the mortals do as they will.
>>1088092I was thinking about a hypothetical situation where Dick triggers the dungeon into collapsing and we have to choose between Lora saving our group of friends/family, or the occupants of the dungeon. I doubt we'd let all those lives we saved just get snuffed out like that, so then Lora goes off to fix things on each level knowing that one of her only friends is going to die. If the gods do not intervene here, it is possible she'll have some bitterness towards the gods afterwards.I've been thinking about this way, WAY too much, criticism is welcome.
>>1088059>I'm assuming the Dungeon isn't on the map?That's actually a really good question. Can we see the dungeon on the map? If we could we might be able to find Richard and cause him to stop something which is kind of our main goal isn't it?The gods were asked not to interfere with the dungeon but that doesn't mean we can't right?
>>1088116Alternatively, she would have some mistrust of the Gods after that scenario, as they expressly left the dungeon to her, then betrayed that trust, even if it was for a"good cause".
>>1088268I believe she'd be more understanding if they (or just one of them) stepped in to save Bri and co, but I'm can't look at it from any other angle than a mortal one and the chances of it happening exactly like that are mediocre. I fully expect Dick to pull shit like this.
>>1088285He may be bent, but He's not outright evil; He believes what's he's doing will help the world. The Lush's stuff was the Lush's fault, though Richard shares some of the blame due to inaction. If destroying the Dungeon will further his plans, he'll do it; but if it was only for something petty, I'm not seeing him doing it. Part of the reason we hate him so much is that he's competent and cold, not because he's crazy. I actually have some respect for him; he's doing what he thinks he needs to, despite the difficulties. He's wrong, and is going to only end up destroying the world, but he's wrong, not evil.
>>1087886>> Attempt to cause a conflictI feel ... there's a necessary lesson here, that we'll want to know that'll help for dealing with the fallout of the Dungeon.There's plenty known about how to avoid fights; Bri as a priest of life know much about that already.Pick a fight worth fighting when we do this, I guess. Don't make it pointless?
>>1088124The Dungeon is not in fact on the map. Its awareness halts just below Glen, though it includes places /near/ the Dungeon and underground, such as Port Swallowglade. Called, writing.
>>1087926Bi has already influenced a nation(s), depending on how you count the duchy, and the Dungeon; shirking away from the fear of consequences doesn't make sense on that basis.
>>1087886>> Decline the Red God's offerNever actually voted.While ending our conflict with Richard would be convenient, I doubt it's that easy. Even if it was, ending the conflict won't resolve the root issue between us.
>>1088368To me he seems like a selfish prick who may or may not feels like the world owes him back what he lost, and will stop at nothing to get it/create his own. If he is also petty, remains to be seen. I may not see him as out right evil at the moment but his actions and companions have been acting anything but deserving of respect.The only one I don't quite see as outright bad is the Wyrm (in part because we don't actually know what the hell he's been up to down there).>>1088401Yeah but that was through personal action, not pushing a piece on a board a certain way to make it happen.
>>1088408Given that the board is an abstraction, whats the difference? Personal risk? As long as you're risking yourself you're allowed to command or coerce events?
>>1088401Inadvertently influencing things through our actions is different from arbitrarily moving pieces.>>1088426>As long as you're risking yourself you're allowed to command or coerce events?In a word? Yes. As long as you have a stake in the conflict, it's reasonable it want to modify it. But if you're just pushing buttons to see what they do, you're causing suffering just to play with the fancy toy.
>>1088426Bri personally talked to people and was physically there to kick start current events, how will these pawns work? do we send a piece of paper like Red Troth did? what do the people which are represented as these pawns feel when you suddenly push their piece in a direction?I'd really rather not try something and then getting told what the (possibly dire) consequences of our actions were.
>>1088457Hrm, sounds like the distinction there is personal information and being able to make an informed decision, more than risk or investment.
>>1088481I have a hard time putting my thoughts into words, but I guess hat's the base line, yes. Information is key.
>>1087886You examine the map, thoughtfully. Red Troth clasps his hands behind his back, observing without comment. You notice, on a second look, that the brown color you originally saw his suit as is actually a dark, rusty red, the color of blood just before it wholly dries. The motion of the pieces is an abstraction, a sped-up view of events that will unfold if unchanged, but here you have the chance to change them, to influence the future before it becomes the present. You reach your hand out, and then pull it back. "I think," you decide, aloud, "that I will decline that offer."The Red God nods. "It was a long time before I chose to decline that power myself," he tells you. "Though even now, as you have seen through my Chosen, I influence conflict. War is, of course, the most famous and thought-of, but would it surprise you to learn that violence was not my invention?"You blink. "...It would, yes."Red Troth paces to the other side of the table and lays a finger upon a small island, relatively devoid of pieces and certainly none of them sapient. "Let us consider a hypothetical," he invites. "I wish to raise this island into a mighty continent, creating mountains where it pushes into the land near it. Within the new continent I will create a culture to my liking.""But if you do that, you'll destroy countless things that already exist," you point out. "Fish, landscapes, plants, people.""So you do not wish me to do this thing?" Red Troth prompts. "I think I'd rather you didn't, yes," you agree, following the exercise. "...We're in conflict.""Precisely. The mantle I took up for myself, God of Strife, can and does refer to conflicts defined by violent change - but in any situation in which one party wants something, and someone or something else prevents them, there is conflict. The definition is so basic, and yet so vital a distinction. When a chick struggles to hatch from an egg, she is in conflict. A writer negotiating the fee for their services is in a kind of conflict. My fellow divinities and I have often been in conflict, even before changes wrought by one could destroy the work of another. As artists, gods are prone to disagree."You snort. "I'm sorry, that's just, so...relateable."Red Troth gives you a playful half-smile. "We created you in our own images. I should think it odd if you find nothing to relate to in us.""You aren't exactly what I expected," you admit. Your eyes are still on the map, out of an understanding that you are getting to see as close to a divine perspective as a mortal ever really can. "Though I imagine you hear that a lot.""I do. I think, of my peers, I may have changed the most. In my youth I was a gleeful thing, exulting in struggle for its own sake, fascinated by how far mortals would go to claim what they wanted, the sins they would commit to resolve their conflicts, or the desires they would relinquish to avoid doing so. I stirred war and death to examine it, to learn from it."
>>1088681You take your gaze from the moving map of the world, watching the Red God with a serious expression. "I changed," he continues, solemnly. "But in many senses, the world has not. We tried to teach you, but like any good teacher, we have also learned. And some of the things we have learned are...uncomfortable." The god gestures to the pawn indicating the Chosen he gave an order to, moving through a city half the world away, across the sear. "This is Marduk. He became my Chosen in the eleventh year of his life. Born crippled, he sold his soul to me for glory and honor. Now, acting on my orders, he is liberating the pleasure slaves of a criminal triad and putting to the sword the men and women responsible for their abuse.""That hardly sounds like a bad thing," you point out. The god gestures, and the map glows in certain places, almost all of them urban, as though dusted with bright stars. "Here sits all of the nearly identical pleasure houses in all of the world," he tells you. "They differ only in trivial details. The story of abuse and evil is the same in each and yet, there is no Chosen here. No one is coming to save these people. I see them, and I know them. With a divine word I could intervene, and I will not, for the age of miracles is over."You stare, unsure of what to say. What to think. "In seeing, and doing nothing, I am culpable in these crimes," Red Troth says softly. > What do you say?
Depending on votes/writeins I may not be able to update again before work, but I'll attempt to do so. I've been waiting for this scene for awhile.
>>1088697If you say so, then every being capable of consciousness is guilty of the worst acts that have ever happened. No matter how powerful we may see ourselves, we have to recognize where we cannot interfere, no matter how much it will or currently pains it. All the gods, including you, have agreed to follow a code, a series of rules, and you have. I have spoken to the Quell, and how much they wanted to overrule their previous judgement. But they didn't, not until they had the perspective of a mortal being who had a less personal stake in the matter, and gave them that power to decide. You could do the same, or you could not. *look at him with a small smile and tell him in a tired but joking voice*Such is the nature of conflict, is it not?"
>>1088697>Yes, you are. The price of being a god, a parent, having to watch as your progeny live out their lives. You don't have to act, but maybe offer some advice when they come calling. Not often, you know, don't want to make them dependent.
>>1089365>Yes, you are. The price of being a god, a parent, having to watch as your progeny live out their lives. You don't have to act, but maybe offer some advice when they come calling. Not often, you know, don't want to make them dependent.This is well thought out and follows the philosophies we've been following so far.
>>1088697>> What do you say?The importance of principles. If you have principles and stand upon them, you have a path to blaze and for others to follow.Standing by your principles is not ... bad. Considering the amount of power you have, your principles are absolutely necessary. If you did not have them, you could not be an effective god.As much as it would be a good thing to address those matters; it would strip the world of something else given to it, too. Free will and freedom of volition. If you go and solve every bad thing ever, you become a slave to your creations, and they lose the opportunity to learn to become better in the long run.
>>1088729I'm curious, Vox, why have you been waiting for this?
>>1089995Gods of war are some of the most complex and difficult in religion, and I've been looking forward to presenting my take.
>>1087886Well you're also culpable for the ones being saved so it's just a matter of doing as much as you can and not stopping, instead of whining that it isn't enough.Welcome to living with limited Power.> Kind of disappointed the God's in the settings setting are just big mortals and not alien or greater things.
>>1090161I like that he decides to look like a goblin
Home, called, writing.>>1090174Well, that's kinda the trouble, isn't it? Many religions, maybe even the majority by number-of-faiths, believe in remarkably human deities. The Greeks are the showcase, of course, but Hinduism, Asatru, Celtic religion, Native American faiths, Vodoun - the list goes on and on, with gods that have remarkably human characteristics paired with inhuman ones. Then you get into the three big famous guys that took over the world and you have this image of a remote, alien god that is...difficult to sketch in. Theodicy plagues the Abrahamic religions in a big way, along with the question of what, exactly, it means to have been created in the image of God. It's difficult to portray, and kinda spins on the things that cause it problems; if this remote, supreme being is not almighty, all-wise, then is it much more than a "big mortal"?There's always Option Three: Go Full Lovecraft but there's not a lot of room to juke through /that/ either and Bloodborne more or less pulled off the only thing you can do without trying to go full Cosmic Horror. Even /then/ there are linkages, common points that help drive home the terror. There's the option of doing distant or possibly absent gods, leaving the questions of religion unanswered, but in most fiction I read that goes for that they almost immediately characterize faith in a negative fashion. The depictions ring hollow, perhaps because that's how the authors see them, perhaps because they have an axe to grind, maybe because the writers don't really understand faith, but as someone who knows god damn well that he doesn't understand faith I didn't wanna go down this road because I'd end up falling into the same traps that annoy the shit out of me. Like, hell, I'm an atheist but there's such a thing as respect, you know?If you have any suggestions as to how I could alleviate this issue in the future I'm listening, but from my end of things I chose to cleave to something that's, frankly, objectively common in Earth's faiths.
>>1090843As I see it, the perceived issue is that the gods that are going out of their way to engage Brianna on a human(ish) level are seeming too human(ish).
>>1088268We could just ask Lora if she'd be cross if the Gods intervened.Or did we do something like that already?
>>1090853>>1090843Nah, more like the Gods are coming off as too preachy, and too "Greek". Like, are they totally killable then? What is it that makes them "Godly" in that case and not just "More powerful"?Personally I would prefer something more like how Pratchett dealt with Gods, or Moloch's "Sleeping God's" quest. Or how "Mana"/Gods & Magic is done in Valen Quest. Something where part of their intrinsic nature is both affected by the world as much as their actions, or people's belief in them etc.Besides, all these "Gods" seem to not really have any conflict and honestly I don't see why they don't just hand Dick the reins and check out if they really are so sick of it all.Like, find out who this bitch he wants to bring back is, make a clone that's close enough to mess with his head, and say "Fuck it, here you go, let's see you do better with the world". Aside from being, well, a Dick, he does seem surprisingly competent.
>>1088697You shrug. "Yes, you are," you agree, after a moment. "But that's the trouble of being a parent, isn't it? You and your peers agreed to follow a certain set of rules and you have. There's going to be consequences for that. You still advise the Firstborn, don't you?""I do. We all do, and we do what we can to help and teach," Red Troth agrees. "I have been preoccupied with my mistakes, of late. Unlike the Quell or the Forgemaster, mine tend to die out.""The giants," you hazard. "Even so," the Red God agrees. "I am given to understand that their last son has fallen. His sister comes even now, in her grief and her fury, seeking his killer. She will be let down, I think. The letter he left passes to her the duty of paying for his crimes.""...Are you fucking serious?" you ask, flatly. "Completely," Red Troth answers, his tone still mild. "You have been made aware of the question which stands between the five Gods of Creation, as I understand it.""Recently, yes," you agree, staring at the pawn that represents the Lush's sister. "Wren and the Forgemaster seemed on board with it. I didn't ask the Quell.""I stand opposed," Red Troth tells you, simply. "I do not believe that our daughter should be granted the status and standing of divinity or held as an object of worship. If possible, I believe she should be relieved of her duties for an indefinite period and forced to actually participate in the Creation she has spent most of her life studiously avoiding."> ...Okay, first of all, fuck you> You might have a point...> Is that /really/ the reason, or are you just worried that they'll leave her holding the bag when all of you fuck off to your next project?> Write-in?
>>1090983> You might have a point...> Is that /really/ the reason, or are you just worried that they'll leave her holding the bag when all of you fuck off to your next project?There's precedence for a god living and dying as a mortal to understand their struggles.Ooh we could make the Lush' sister have to fulfill Loras duties in the interim as punishment.
>>1090998Giving power over death to somebody out for vengeance and full of grief and fury sounds like the sort of thing that leads to zombie armies. Also why would she merit any punishment at all?
>>1090983> The letter he left passes to her the duty of paying for his crimes.Even in death the Lush still finds a way to be an awful person."Hey sis, I know I haven't written in forever, but I wanted to let you know that I'm dead. Also, I oppressed, tortured, raped, and murdered countless people in a massive orgy of misery and pain, all as part of a self-absorbed scheme to burn my own name into the history books, and someone is going to have to foot the bill for that. And by someone, I mean you."
>>1090949I wouldn't say that they're preachy. Each god is well known for their focus and specialty, and they're sharing their own mistakes and beliefs with Bri, even as they try to feel her out. Lora's their daughter, and Bri has made it a point to be her friend and create a relationship with her. It's not a romantic one or anything, but that it's this close at all that has them invested in getting to know her. Which means meeting with her and feeling her out. It's a mix between their usual 'professional' approach and a more 'casual' one. They're probably also trying to understand Bri because she's the Heritor now. Once Dick's over and done with, Lora might decide that she's a little fed up with the Dungeon and leave to be /literally/ /anywhere/ /else/ for a little bit. Or take on the mantle of being the God of Death. Which would leave Bri in charge of a small country that also happens to be a vault for some of the more dangerous odds and ends that have come around over the millenia. Anyway, I also /like/ that these guys are the greek variety of god. They care and empathize, and try to hold to their principles. And sometimes, they fuck up. And their fuckups are god-tier. Wren the Rhymer wrote a book of poems and gave it to a mortal she liked, and it subsequently drove him crazy. It messed with a lot of people over the years before she recovered it, and she genuinely felt bad that she drove so many people around the bend with it. A huge part of the appeal of this for me is just how earthy it feels. Like the people are all people. Bri was sentenced to exile in the Dungeon for saving a man's life with her necromancy, and was salty about it. The guards didn't like her, but at least felt awkward about it, and her sentence was downgraded from a full on 'off with her head' kind of deal. Also, Dick isn't really interested in bringing someone /back/ from the dead. What we were shown is that he wanted to try and /create/ a world. The largest issue with that is by doing so he will fuck this incredibly badly. He either didn't believe Lora about the consequences, or chose to ignore her about them. And the problem with Dick is basically... Well, he's all but a god of the Dungeon, and he /fucked/ it pretty hard, fobbing off defending and running onto other people who were not picked for how nice they would be, but on how well he could leverage them into being his puppets. Anyway, votes.> You might have a point...> Is that /really/ the reason, or are you just worried that they'll leave her holding the bag when all of you fuck off to your next project?>>1091024OK, I gotta admit. I laughed.
>>1090983> ...Okay, first of all, fuck youCan you really blame her though? She's basically had to clean up your messes from the beginning. Especially you, you selfish asshat, who thought there wasn't a better way than war to learn how people worked. I think by dint of the role /you forced upon her/ that she knows and understands the Firstborn better than the rest of you ever will.> Is that /really/ the reason, or are you just worried that they'll leave her holding the bag when all of you fuck off to your next project?Admit it, you guys aren't going to stop with just one world. Any artist whose created something feels a certain amount of pride in what they've made, but they also feel frustration, because the flaws and imperfections stand out to them. Can I just say, that I've always felt a little bit /tempted/ to shank these guys when we've spoken to them? It's like they've never even considered sitting down and talking with Lora, the other Archangels, and their mortal Chosen about these things. Literal god-tier autism. Honestly, the only one who seemed to have really let what they learned over the ages sink in was the Lady of Ravens.
>>1090983>> Is that /really/ the reason, or are you just worried that they'll leave her holding the bag when all of you fuck off to your next project?
>>1090983>> ...Okay, first of all, fuck youShe is basically this guy's maid. When a conflict ends with death (guess what, lots do) she has to deal with it while he laughs his goblin head off.
As you may imagine, I am about to crawl into bed and emulate death for awhile. I'll call and write in the morning; votes remain open. Questions, comments, discussion, feedback, and criticisms remain - as always - welcome and appreciated. Thank you all for reading and participating!
>>1091063> Can I just say, that I've always felt a little bit /tempted/ to shank these guys when we've spoken to them?Also kind of sounds like it could work.I mean, for my write in on acting on the board I was considering "Punch the War God" as an example of how we should change the situation. Like being responsible for your own actions but not just messing with other people's.Also because fuck this dude and his board game.Finally because how often do you get to punch a war god ethically?
>>1090983>> ...Okay, first of all, fuck you>> Is that /really/ the reason, or are you just worried that they'll leave her holding the bag when all of you fuck off to your next project?
>>1090983>> You might have a point...I wonder if he means Her Creation, or Their Creation. If hers, she should spend time living in the Dungeon. If theirs, I'm not seeing a need really. One thing the Gods do have right is actually keeping an eye on the mortals in their domain.
>>1090983>Write-in?>"What do you think this will accomplish?"Worst case, Lora feels like she is being punished and grows resentful of her parents. Not sure how else to interpret it.
>>1090983>Write in.>Except that doesn't really fly, you know?>You gave her the dungeon to teach her a lesson, and not only did it teach her the lessons you wished to teach her, she learned more than you would have dared curse her to learn. >She's living in the creation because someone bound her to it and forced her to exist in the creation. she's been abused, tortured, tormented, forced to torture and abuse others, and has made friends, enemies, and literally lived in ways that every creature in creation has lived in.>Your desire to create conflict with me and with your fellow gods should not force you to condemn someone who has suffered to suffer even more by taking away something she truly loves - something you forced her into making. top prove your point.Really, he's just attempting to incite conflict at this point, because that's what he does.
>>1091063I think that they've probably discussed these things, but found it really hard to do so. Most of the angels have /issues/ interacting with humanity, and would be pretty much just yes-men to their creators for a long time. Add to that, each domain is unique. The gods don't see eye to eye with each other on everything. It probably took a very long time for them to admit they were having issues, and even more to think about what questions they should be asking themselves. And finding people capable of asking those questions honestly, who won't try to mislead them, whether by being more yes-men or by being assholes, took even longer I bet.
>>1091416>changing my vote to this
>>1090983>>1091380 adding: >>1091416This makes an excellent point.
>>1091416Seconding, with a add on of>Ok first off, fuck you.
>>1091425Well, that's what I mean by them talking. Not just with each other and the Archangels, but with the Chosen (not just their own either, but like the Quell speaking with a Chosen of Wren), with the priests of their respective domains, and even just going incognito and hanging out with mortals.The have had literally millennia to figure this shit out, but they haven't. They don't have any excuses.
>>1091416>In my youth I was a gleeful thing, exulting in struggle for its own sake,>"I changed," he continues, solemnly.He doesn't stir up trouble for it own stake anymore.
>>1091442And yet his very words belie that."I'm agaisnt it, take her power away and force her to live an an ordinary person." Why? Well, he doesn't give us a reason - but it's counter to everything the other gods have proposed. He COULD have given an explanation. But that would have headed off a conflict.
>>1091478Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean you're strirring up trouble for its own sake; and he hasn't had a chance to explain yet, doesn't mean he won't.
>>1091523True, but from the perspective of an outsider like myself, he;s literally punishing her for being who and what she is and for what she has done even though it's been at their behest; and disagreeing with the others because of who and what he is. I'm not saying my view is correct, only that it is the one I am going with.
I'm up. I gotta go Prevent Homelessness here so I'll call and write...kinda whenever I get back home. I'll be available via phone while I'm walking.
>>1091576I suppose it depends if she considers this a punishment, instead of what I see as medical leave. She's been through a lot of crap during this mess, and needs time process it all. Also, remember that this whole mess started due to Lora trying to pass on her duties to Richard.>I'm not saying my view is correct, only that it is the one I am going with.I can respect that though.
>>1091478He did give a reason, though?
Called, tallying, writing.
Well this is an odd vote to tally. Three options essentially tied, but I think I can combine them. Let's do this.
> Slowly writing over the last couple of hours> Document glitches outGOD DAMN IT
>>1093668Yeah I'm noticing.
>>1093668Suddenly the crucifixion makes sense.
>>1090983You point fold your arms. "First of all, fuck you for that. Second of all, where do you get off? You gave her the Dungeon to teach her a lesson, and she learned it. And because of that lesson she learned she's been bound to this creation. She's been abused, tortured, and violated, and then forced to repeat that on others. She's made her first friends, her first real enemies, had her first crush - shit, at this point she just needs to have a kid and she's checked off more or less everything mortals think is worthwhile to do in life, considering that her life's work is basically a tiny world in itself."Red Troth folds his own arms in turn and gives you a level look. "Like, fuck, I honestly cannot believe you just said that. To the point where I have to accuse you of having an ulterior motive, actually. You know taking the Dungeon from Lora won't do her any good. So what is it you're actually worried about - that you and your peers will fuck off and leave her holding the bag?""I do worry about that possibility," the Red God tells you, his voice solemn. "I worry that they will appoint her caretaker of the world, that she will agree because she is used to caring for and preserving something. And it is not that I fear my daughter going mad with power, but rather that my peers and I will leave her behind, looking for something we may not find.""What could you possibly be looking for?" you ask, plainly. "Our origins," Red Troth admits, quietly. "...I will trust you to keep this to yourself, necromancer. We do not know where we come from. We do not know why. There is, as you may have heard, no manual for divinity. No guide for godly behavior. We do not even really know if we are the only gods in the vastness of the void, or how we could tell if we aren't."You let out a long breath. "Further, this world is subject to entropy. Most of Creation is. Anything that can change can die, after all, and vice-versa. At some point, it will end, as all things eventually end. I am not certain that Lora is ready to accept that, or that she will /ever/ be ready to accept that if we place it solely in her charge.""And you're so certain that giving her the credit she's due for her hard work will result in that?" you challenge, pacing on your side of the table. "That is an interesting belief," the Red God comments. "She is 'owed' divinity?"> She has it already. You created her to kill one of you, remember? At this point the only reason she's not a god is because you say she isn't. > How is she /not/?> ...That isn't exactly what I meant...> Write-in?
>>1094246good job guys,That was helpful. It's not a punishment, its medical leave.> ...That isn't exactly what I meant...The only option that makes /any/ sense/ We've argued against giving it to her with others. Divinity isn't a gift, and it certainly isn't something that should be "given for services rendered"
>>1094246>> ...That isn't exactly what I meant...
>>1094246>> How is she /not already a god/?>From what I can tell she or at least could be as powerful as you. She touches everyone on who lives and a few who don't. I don't think there's any matter that concerns people more then death and it's inevitability. >She has the power, she has the domain, is the only thing stopping her from being a god just a matter of formality?
>>1094246>> She has it already. You created her to kill one of you, remember? At this point the only reason she's not a god is because you say she isn't.Anybody else thinking that Lora is entropy in its infancy?
>>1094246>Let's hold up a second here. Right now, what's the difference between being Lora and being a full god?Red Troth is antagonizing us here, at least a little bit on purpose I think. And while she has the tools to create life, the power of the divine language, and probably about a dozen other powers I know nothing about... I think there's something more here that we don't quite know about. So, rather than play into his hand, let's ask another question here and learn something.
>>1094246>Let's hold up a second here. Right now, what's the difference between being Lora and being a full god?>>1094329He didn't clarify that in the first place.
>>1094246>> She has it already. You created her to kill one of you, remember? At this point the only reason she's not a god is because you say she isn't. >> How is she /not/?
>>1094246>>> She has it already. You created her to kill one of you, remember? At this point the only reason she's not a god is because you say she isn't. >>> How is she /not/?
>>1094246> ...That isn't exactly what I meant...>Let's hold up a second here. Right now, what's the difference between being Lora and being a full god?I'm fairly sure that Lora does know it would eventually end, but this isn't about Lora being owed divinity, the only thing she is owed is justice for all the shit Dick & co put her through.
>>1094246>> How is she /not/?
>>1094246>> ...That isn't exactly what I meant...Divinity isn't a gift.He is trolling us, and you guys are falling for it. He prodding us, testing us, and we're failing.
>>1094941Also, ability to kill a God is not the same thing as /being/ a God, dunno where that is coming from.
>>1094944Wasn't that spear in the Lichyard able to kill a God? Actually, are the Gods vulnerable to iron? Lora is. Does that mean anyone wielding Iron is a God, if all it take to be a God is the ability to kill one?
>>1094246>> ...That isn't exactly what I meant, but...>> She has it already. You created her to kill one of you, remember? At this point the only reason she's not a god is because you say she isn't.
>>1094246> She has it already. You created her to kill one of you, remember? At this point the only reason she's not a god is because you say she isn't. She is far more important to most of the world than any of the gods. After all, she's death. Not everyone gives a shit about the gods, but everyone dies. The age of miracles is over, the gods mostly just sit back, watch, and make the occasional comment. But Lora is the personification of something that everyone has to deal with eventually. She doesn't have the luxury of being able to take a hands-off approach, and as a result she is very conscious of how the firstborn think of her. It's ridiculous for a god who looks at the world laid out on a big map from the comfort of his library to talk about how death needs to walk among the firstborn to connect to them. Remember when Lora talked about this? She hid behind her own wings and spoke of how the firstborn feared her as a monster that snatches babies from the arms of their mothers. She knows damn well how mortals live. Most live their lives fearing death.
>>1094941This anon has the right of it. Stay cool my fellow anons, Troth is dragging us into his field of strife. Let's not get dragged here. >>1094960We're not saying that the dude was right about her not getting mortals. But I think that he's trying to rile us, and challenge our world view. Some people say you don't get to know a man until you challenge him, and Red Troth seems like the kind of guy who's appreciate that saying. We probably know more secrets about gods than anyone else in a thousand miles, but fuck if we know everything. They taught Lora everything she knows, but we don't know if they taught her everything /they/ know.Maybe she's a nascent godling and will grow into it over time. Maybe she's 'just' the head of her Choir and can't 'ascend' or whatever without help from all five gods. If anything, I feel like we should try to address Red Troth's feeling that she won't accept that the world itself will eventually change and die. Something which, given the fact that the Dungeon was her personal playground and a place where she experimented with ways that were supposed avoid entropy altogether, and that the reason she fucked off to the very bottom and made all the gods agree to stay out was because she was trying to reject her nature as the 'End' of things....Well, the man has a point. The Mines were built so that there would /always/ be work and opportunity, the Cornucopia produces food at a fast enough rate to make sure everyone in the Dungeon stays fed. The Broken Jaw was literally /frozen/ for thousands of years. The Dungeon has, for a long time, resisted change. Considering that's supposed to be Lora's field as well, I'd be concerned. But... OK, I honestly can't remember if spring came to the Jaw or not, it's been awhile. But the point is, that while Lora would certainly /hate/ for the world to end... I don't think she'd try and fuck herself over entirely over it.Then again, part of the reason that this whole mess started was that she /didn't/ want to deal with it and Dick took advantage of that.Which, side-note, contributes to Dick being bullshit. On top of his absurdly perfect recruitment and manipulation skills, he knew /how/ to approach Lora. Something that I'm pretty sure no mortal should have /any/ clue on how to do. He had to get down to the bottom of the dungeon, something that in and of itself might as well have been a near impossible quest all on it's own. So, he /had/ to know Lora was down there, because I don't think master manipulators would go on dangerous and risky adventures without some sort of guarantee. Christ. At this point I'm wondering if Dick has a fragment of the god that god shanked or something.
>>1095023>Christ. At this point I'm wondering if Dick has a fragment of the god that god shanked or something.... where else would someone who wants to hide from the gods go?
I'm up. Calling and writing in approximately ten minutes; I need coffee.
> ...That isn't exactly what I meant...>Let's hold up a second here. Right now, what's the difference between being Lora and being a full god?I imagine that Lora is still missing some critical components. Like, could she make angels? Create her own divine forge? I feel like there's at least one level of access left above her. Even her ability to kill that one god was given to her by the others.RT is baiting us, because he likely knows that there's more.
And called, writing.
>>1095023Spring never came to the Jaw. Without the bitch there to double freeze everything it was a special place unique to the dungeon, so we let it return to its former shine.
>>1094246You let out a long breath and take a mental step back from the conversation. The expression on the Red God's face is still pleasant, professional in a way; he has not raised his voice or expressed anger in any way, which is a little surprising, considering. "...That isn't exactly what I meant," you tell him, at length. "I don't know what the relationship is like between you and Lora. I imagine you've had to work closely a lot, but she..." you sigh. "Lora knows we hate her. That we fear her, that we resent her. She does such an important, worthwhile job and in exchange she gets condemnation, spite, and loathing. Hearing her admit how much that hurts her, how much that hurts her even now when her life is a complete hell for unrelated reasons, that was heartbreaking. And hearing you say she should get thrown out of her home, her place that she made with her own two hands, so she can understand the Firstborn? That seems absurd. She doesn't need to understand us. /We/ need to understand /her/. I doubt we'll ever stop being afraid of death but, hell, this isn't fair.""That always was her chief complaint," Red Troth murmurs, a little distantly. "She never did quite understand the friend she had in the Quell. So this, for you, is not about the question of her status as a divinity or an angel, and instead a disagreement with the idea that she should be forced into the wider world?""...Yes," you agree, after a moment of thought. "But I do find myself wondering what the difference between Lora and a god actually is. She has what seems to be essentially all of your powers and privileges, she provides an essential aspect of Creation. What is she missing?"Red Troth gestures, clearing the table; the map rolls itself away, taking a place on the shelf. "From your perspective, nothing," he says, frankly. "And it is from your perspective that we will discuss this matter, because my objection is rooted in the effect on creation. Specifically, if Lora is ready to be seen as a guide and authority, a wise leader for mortals to follow. You are keenly aware, I think, of the mistakes we have made, and which we seek to correct.""So, what, you got to learn by doing and Lora gets to fuck off and do what she's told?" you ask. The God of Strife laughs, a warm, genuine laugh, and shows a grin full of teeth. "I will confess, I do not normally like necromancers, but it is refreshing to deal with someone who is not afraid to speak with me as an equal. This was worth the wait, I think.""...Thank you?" you hazard. Red Troth shrugs. "Permit me to offer you some small payment for your troubles. The Hardhome la Croix have sent their representative, who should - barring disaster - arrive within the week, seeking you. He is one James la Croix, a man of deep roots in the family and clear-cut convictions. He is, by profession, a vampire hunter.""That...can get awkward," you say slowly. "Though not as awkward as it could be, I suppose. Thank you, my lord."
>>1095674"Be well, Ms. la Croix." There is that feeling of disconnection again, followed by you being sharply pulled back into your body. You sway as you take control of yourself again, blinking away the momentary, dream-like dizziness, and then stand. <Welcome back, my Queen> Fetch greets, formally. <It's good to be back, Sir Fetch. It's good to /be/ back.>* * * *You have time to train> Emphasize personal combat; you need every edge you can get> Work on imbuing undead traits in the living> See what you can do about enhancing your armor and equipment further* * * *You have some guests coming, but some business to attend to as well. The order might be important. > Sue for peace with the Librarian first; get it out of the way now.> Wait for your guests; you don't need to be on any more of a clock than you already are
>>1095691> Emphasize personal combat; you need every edge you can get> Wait for your guests; you don't need to be on any more of a clock than you already are
>>1095691>> Emphasize personal combat; you need every edge you can get>> Wait for your guests; you don't need to be on any more of a clock than you already are
And now I must go to work. See y'all just after midnight.
>>1095691>edge you can get>>> Wait for your guests; you don't need to be on any more of a clock than you already are
>>1095691> Work on imbuing undead traits in the living.Are we sharing our research with River and Emily? > Wait for your guests; you don't need to be on any more of a clock than you already are.
>>1095691>> Emphasize personal combat; you need every edge you can get> Sue for peace with the Librarian first; get it out of the way now.> Wait for your guests; you don't need to be on any more of a clock than you already are
>>1096338> Voting for two mutually exclusive optionsWhy this.
>>1096620 Because we love watching you suffer.
>>1095691>> Work on imbuing undead traits in the living> Wait for your guests; you don't need to be on any more of a clock than you already areundead traits is our wild card
>>1096865Does the Poltergeist/Undead form give Brianna protection from slaying spells? I gotta check the doc.
>>1095691"Again," you order. You block Nathan's chop with Reunion and throw a fistful of darkness into the Hatchet Man's face, making him stagger away as he instinctively puts distance between you and him while he cannot sense anything. You husband brings a knee up into your gut only to stagger back when you headbutt him. Then Amy lands, all wings and feet, and you go crashing to the ground. "Eyes up," she tells you, offering a hand down.You take it and sigh. "Alright, last one before lunch. Again."* * * *You hear the giantess before you see her. You've already warned Glen's militia to expect her, and you meet her on the outskirts of the village, her brother's letter in your hands. The envelope is massive. Your spouses, as well as your sister and your familiars, wait with you. Herostratus's sister looks remarkably like him; like her brother, her features are chiseled, stone-like, and her movements display an effortless and athletic grace. The giantess wears armor of burnished bronze and walks with a spear tipped in the same metal. She has shaved her hair, save for a single lock that hangs over the side of her head, a mourning tradition shared by the dwarves and the giants. "Stand aside," she demands, her voice exhausted. "I have journeyed far and hard to avenge the murder of my brother, the last son of the giants, and must now seek his killer.""She's right here," Amy says solemnly, next to you. "He asked us to give you this," you explain, offering out the letter. "It was one of his final requests."The giantess is clearly shocked, but her eyes drift down to the seal on the envelope. Slowly, she sets her spear aside and kneels to take the letter from you. She opens it, her hands shaking, and begins to read. There is a long silence, tinged with shame, when she finally sets her brother's last message down. "I'm Brianna," you say at last, as gently as you can manage. "This is Nathan, and that's Amy. They're my spouses. My adopted sister here is River, and the familiars are Sir Fetch and Whisper.""Helen," the giantess answers, not looking at you. "...What wergild can I offer for my brother's crimes?""Don't say none, Bri," Amy tells you. "That's...not...a thing that's going to fly here.""My family would be disgraced before our people," Helen agrees. > Send Helen to work in the Cornucopia> Ask her to swear her service to yourself and your family> Work with Henrietta to get Helen's contributions on public works> Write-in? (Seriously, ideas are encouraged here)
>>1097874>Ask Helen what she would consider proper payment? >Alternate suggestions- ask her to return to the giants and get their shit in order with half giant/half humans? Is there anything she can do that no one else could?
>>1097874I want to send her in to help the Cornucopia for the karma, but...Yeah, people /remember/ the Lush there, and if Helen looks enough like her brother to invite some very bad ideas. Taking her service for ourselves doesn't seem right either. Bri died (again) during the assault on the Cornucopia, but the Lush's true crimes were against the Cornucopia itself. I kind want to suggest something with... what was his name... Riley! >Ask Helen her skills.Sure, she's probably a grade-A warrior, but the Lush's the one who pioneered the Drink. He was a wily one. So, I can't help but wonder what his sister's good at.
>>1097874Would she be able to work on the entrance to the Roost without much trouble? That could be a decent start.We could ask her to sit down at war council for insight/logistics. Task her to perform one for deed for every X wrong that her brother performed, being slightly less than reasonable because some of his crimes are horrid.
>>1097874>Write-in? (Seriously, ideas are encouraged here)>"What skills do you possess?"Strong and high endurance seem logical but what else can she bring to the table? We shouldn't send her to the Cornucopia, not just yet anyway the wounds are still too fresh.I strongly believe that no amount of work she can do for us will be able to pay for what the asshole did, and it pains me greatly.
>>1097874>> Write-in? (Seriously, ideas are encouraged here)So... man, this is a mess. But we don't want another giant in the cornucopia just yet. But I'll offer up... smithwork. Giants are renowned smiths, yes? And we've got a floor about smithering? A period of time of service to the smithery floor: To make whatever she can within her ability upon request to the people of the dungeon who ask of her. If there is more than one request, she can choose what order/priority.Set it long enough for all sides to feel it's an appropriate wergild. It'll kinda of suck, but if she insists on not getting away wihout blame, it seems constructive and not being a jerk about it.
>>1097874> Help the reconstruction and expansion efforts in the Dungeon.Aside from sheer strength and size, she's likely just as intelligent and crafty as her damned brother, and that talent can be put to use. There's the new shaft in the Roost, rebuilding the Temple of All-Gods, aiding the Gear-Grinders in the Broken Jaw, reclaiming the Sprawl in the Sunless Sea, and potentially acting as a peace-broker with the Librarian. Like other anons have said, there's bad blood between the survivors of the Cornucopia and Helen, by dint of her brothers actions. She is not welcome there. But, if she takes over some duties in the Broken Jaw, the Gear-Grinders can pitch in for the reconstruction effort in the Cornucopia. We should also introduce Helen to Bridgette and Natalia. Learning about Bridgette will inform her about how Dick could sink his hooks into a good person and turn them into something awful. I know she'll probably be pissed at Natalia for bringing her brother into Dick's plans, but truth be told, the blame lies with Herostratus.Certainly, Dick pushed the right buttons to break down the last Jotunsson's morals and inhibitions, but ultimately Herostratus was responsible for his crimes. He made a choice to brand his name in the minds, hearts, and flesh of hundreds. Instead of a legacy of greatness, he will be remembered as a cruel monster.Hopefully, Helen can do some good, and show the world that the Giants could enter the Sunless Lands gracefully, with their heads held high. >>1097913The problem there is that the last giants young enough to have children were Herostratus and Helen's parents.>>1098025As an olive branch between us and Helen, we could always have the surface entrance to the new shaft in the Roost be marked by a pair of statues; Helen and Herostratus. Or maybe just their parents.It's an idea, at least.
>>1097874Just had a thought, it makes sense if the wergild offer goes to Lora but since she can't personally reply (yet) working to fix/help what she created should be a good start.
>>1097874Fuuuuuuuck, this sucks.>>1097913This but don't accept her death if she offers it, that achieves nothing and she cant fix anything her brother destroyed. >>1098024and this combined. If we can get an idea what to do we can have her work more effectively on a task, on the off chance she manages to finish it we can move her on to another task. If we get a lot done with her and she insists to pay more...then she can work for the family. I bet the chicks would love to have a grumpy aunt giant to tell them stories and climb on.
>>1098368I wouldn't suggest that, for the same reason as Helen being in Cornucopia - it's too close, and Lora is human ... enough, we don't want to put a constant remind of one of the cruelties subjected to her in her face just yet. Maybe later when Lora has had some time to recuperate.
>>1098603That makes sense, but it's something to keep in mind at least.
>Write-in? (Seriously, ideas are encouraged here)>"What skills do you possess?"Step by step. After that, if we don't get any better ideas, helping in the creation of something big seems sensible. A balancing act. ...Not in the Cornucopia, ideally.
>>1097874>Supporting >>1098841We can best make use of her if we actually know what she can do other than the obvious 'be big'.
>Her Name Is A Reference EditionWho? Gemma, Helen?
>>1099534Gemma.Sorry I've been out of touch; got called in and we're getting hit like we mouthed off to the Godfather.
>>1100497I'd make a lewd joke about you being into punishment, but we all know your true love is the Brown Goddess of the Sacred Bean. She looks like Salma Hayek in her prime.
Okay, primary vote option seems to be to talk this out with Helen. Archiving thread, writing new one, and then I'm going to crawl into bed and fucking die. We'll see if I can update before work tomorrow.