Hello, my name is Chi Long Qua, from the city of Tan in the Song territory. It has been a brutal series of generations, the Song dynasty has lost a huge amount of land from the Jin Dynasty. Their army and navy is vastly bigger than ours, however we are defeating them in some of our recent battles quite handedly.What am I? I am a gun maker. They are a new invention using gunpowder that has been around for a long time.At the moment, I have only constructed a very basic gun. It is pretty ineffective and outclassed by standard ranged weapons, but I have managed to improve upon two aspects of the basic idea.I> ReliabiltyII> RangeIII>Reload timeIV>AccuracyV>Ammunition qualityVI>recoilVII>write inThe Song administrators delegated resources towards new weapons after seeing a prototype work a couple of years ago. I had a couple of ideas that they liked. I have been allocated a workshops and a dozen apprentices or workers. Am supplied fairly well.I have 3 more months to design a military model lest the administration pulls my funding and gives it to one of the other gunsmiths in the city - gunsmiths currently only given minimal assistance from the Administration. - and I be relegated to a solo gun-maker.
>>1012240II> RangeIV>Accuracy>360 no scope long range cannon fire
My resources are as follows:>One medium sized workshop with benches and rooms for me and my workers.>12 menials who obey me. They are pretty poor but are willing to learn and can be improved. They will do all the things I am not doing.>Several Qua prototype copies >A copy of the first ever fire arm, two years old design. >a forge >plenty of pipes, metal ingots, gunpowder and the reagents to make gun powder.I am also fairly competent in each aspect of making a gun. However making improvements is not as easy.when a third vote on our Qua prototype attribute bonuses has been made I will give the next thing to vote upon, which will be our character's focuses, a weakness and something else.
>>1012249Supporting, however I think reliability should be the #1 factor we work towards next.
>>1012283>>1012269>>1012249Ahh, my beloved Qua model. Compared to the antique, my design can actually hit something from across the room. It still takes a long time to load, breaks or misfires more often than not, does almost no damage - can barely dent wood, and bruises the should when fired.But, it's a start.A design that will surely be able to be improved by the deadline in three months, because...A: I am extremely diligent and hard workingB: I am extremely intelligent and have the best ideasC: I have extremely fine hands and excellent eyesight, able to see and fix imperfectionsD: I have been to university and have huge amounts of knowledge and training.E: I have great charisma and a good relationship with all the other gunsmiths in this city, so if they have an idea I can use, I can convince them to tell me it.F: My menials are clever, and in fact they were the ones who did all the work in designing my Qua design.But, I must always remind myself that these two strengths are not as strong as my pride thinks they are. They are still strengths though.
>>1012321>B>DWe have the macro, our servants have the micro. Let's strat it up boys.
>>1012321BCThe ideas are our own and we get them working without help from others
>>1012321>B>FWe have the good ideas and let our minions work out the finer details
Okay so B: I am extremely intelligent and have the best ideasis locked in. D has two votes while C and E each have one
>>1012382I'm willing to switch to D although I think sticking with E and being able to get other peoples best ideas would be a good play too. Best of both worlds.
>>1012382Actually to make things more interesting let's learn from experience, I'll switch my vote from D to C even if it is less efficient.
So that would be D getting three votes.Everyone happy with B and D being our characters best traits?
>>1012398*misread the switches.looks like people are fine with B and D3 minutes to contest it just in case
>>1012321A: I am extremely diligent and hard workingD: I have been to university and have huge amounts of knowledge and training.
>>1012407Well I switched to C. I dunno if you need to see an eye doctor mate but C has 2 votes and D has one. I won't mind either way but still
>>1012413Actually this makes it 2 to 2. So whatever I guess D is fine. No reason to tie and hold up the quest. I vote back round again for D
>>1012432I switched from E to D as well to move things along. So thats another
>>1012436i switched from F ->D to move thigs along
>>1012426sorry lol. Well, your first vote happened.>>1012432Sweet :DI am extremely intelligent and have the best ideasI have been to university and have huge amounts of knowledge and training.win---So, I have three months to get a product that my Song emperor can use in his armies. The model doesn't need to be amazing, but it does need to be useful.My first priority of the week was (two for me):>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>Improve workers>improve upon the ammunition>improve the work shop>write in---And my orders for the menials were (2 of them)>make full guns>make parts of guns>design something>teach themselves>write in
>>1012407Ill support what was chosen. I just noticed this thread. Would have been here sooner if I had seen it.
>>1012456>>Improve workers>>improve upon the ammunition>>teach themselves>>design something
>>1012456>improve upon an aspect of the Qua modelreliability, we want these things killing what you aim it at not the person holding the gun.>improve upon the ammunitionas for the menials>design something>teach themselves
>>1012456>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>Improve workers>make full guns>make parts of gunsThe rationale behind this is to educate the workers and design in tandem as they work. We get on the dot dimensions and the workers get better at making guns. Then we can find ways to improve on individual parts and stuff later on. But this should provide a good base.
>>1012456>>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>>design something>>teach themselves
>>1012456My priorities>Improve upon the ammunition>Improve workersWorkers>Make parts of guns>teach themselvesGive us a bit better shot for them to work with, and makes them better at building the actual guns themselves so they are guns instead of pipe-bombs on a handle
>>1012481Fuck exploding cannons
Okay so we got: Four votes for Improve Qua model and for the Teach Themselves.Three for Improve workers and Improve Ammunition and Design something.Make full guns and make gun parts got 1 and 2 respectively.
So our first personal action will be Improve Qua model.Menial's first action is Teach Themselves.---Do we want to personally Improve workers or Improve Amunition?And are our Menials find with doing their own design work?
>>1012588Improve Workers, teach them about double-checking things and quality control. Demonstrate by also teaching hand tool use, inspecting and showing mistakes, and showing how to fix them.
>>1012596This, we want them to learn early, so we can avoid basic mistakes and get more work done.
>>1012612Yep also supporting
>>1012588>>>1012588also work with menials to on our improvement work, allowing them a better idea of how the canon works
>>1012588Err, about the menials and design work, we should have them run their ideas through us before using any resources on them, other than a bit of paper.
>>1012624That's also a good point, but I think that's a given.
I chose to:Personal: Improve Qua model. Improve MenialsMenial Orders: Teach Themselves. Design work (running it past us)this week.And everything went as expected.roll D100s
Rolled 93 (1d100)>>1012663
Rolled 37, 70, 57, 76 = 240 (4d100)>>1012663
Rolled 93, 54, 60, 26 = 233 (4d100)>>1012663
Rolled 76, 61, 44, 83 = 264 (4d100)>>1012668Oooooh 4 of them for each thing. Got it.Rerolling
Oh shit I have a cunning plan. Since most of the guns we have now can't penetrate wood and arrows have trouble doing so as well. We can put our guns on the back of a horse cart, cover it in a wooden box on top. Then make view ports and Tadaa!Protected from rain, arrows and cheap small arms. Only problem is it's heavy and needs to be driven by horses. that is givin we are crewing a cannon in one.
>>1012668My ideas for improving my design were amazing. I realized that I needed to use better quality material for the weapon. Now that I had the design updated, I could make progress on building a new submodel.(crafting of more reliable Qua possible)>>1012671>>1012676>>1012694I also spent the week with my menials, teaching them how to be better. While they are still poor quality, they are less shit. Together they can make a copy of a prototype if they have that prototype available to painstakingly examine.(menials can make copies)I ordered the menials to teach and practice themselves. I was pleasantly surprised that they made any noticeable progress. They have figured out to keep gunpowder dry, and that guns need to be cleaned after being fired otherwise they can't fire properly.Finally, I ordered and made to check on their design work. I didn't expect much, and they didn't deliver much. However, they were able to at least get a few designs that were equal to the first cannon made ever. Good practice for them at least. Would take a while to pay off though.(menials can sometimes make the basic firearm)--->>1012745a cunning plan indeed :)
Qua 1.000 model: 1 in every stat apart from 2 in Range and Accuracy.Our 1.001. 1 in every stat but 2 in reliability, accuracy and range.Original Gun: 1 in every stat.Best design that menials can make themselves: 1 in every stat---3 months minus one week.---Poor menials: 130 points (d100s give points needless to say) till Fairly poor menials.---The Administrators will drop by at end of month for a status update.---Quite pleased with myself for getting a better design after only a week of effort, I decided to focus for the second week on, (two for me):>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>Improve workers>improve upon the ammunition>improve the work shop>write in---And my orders for the menials were (2 of them)>make full guns>make parts of guns>design something>teach themselves>write indoes the layout make clear sense?
>>1012816>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>improve the work shop>make parts of guns>teach themselvesWe should improve the workshop so when we do start mass producing guns we have a better facility.
>>1012816Mine>Improve the workshop>Improve upon an aspect of the Qua model (Reload time)Menials>Teach themselves>Make gun partsIf we beef up the shop, perhaps it'll improve the rate they turn out parts? Plus, making it easier to reload would make a big difference in the army.
>>1012816seems fine to me.I think we should>Improve workers>improve the shopand I think the menials should>teach themselves twiceThey should specialize, with each worker mastering a single part of creating a gun. The idea is that none of them master the WHOLE process and take off on us to set up their own shop, and that it should be easier to have 2 barrelmakers, 2 fine parts makers, 2 woodworkers, 2 assemblers etc. instead of 12 full gunsmiths.If we can't double up then>make full gun(s)I only expect one, but I expect it to be a good example of Qua 1.001 Model. They should all work on producing something different, and the ones who will do the same type of work should work together on doing that part of the single firearm.
>>1012904to expand on the workers thing, I think maybe2 barrelmakers, we will need lots of barrels, at least one per gun.2 small parts makers, these guys will make all the other metal parts like locks, triggers, screws, etc.2 woodworkers, these guys make the stocks, grips, fancy carving, etc.2 assemblers, these guys put the parts together according to the design2 powder makers, these guys will be our experts on gunpower2 ball makers, these guys will focus on making the shot to be fired.
>>1012904>>1012944yes, division of labour is an excellent idea. Especially with your point about making sure none of them can betray us by stealing our plans and making the guns themselves, due to only having a specific part they make.--there seems to be a consensus on improving the Qua model design to have a faster reload, and improve the workshop.Menials teaching themselves and making gun parts are winning.Of course, thuch of the teaching themselves is you wanting it to be double.--Walking my doggo now, will update when I get back.
>>1012816>>1012904Support.So if we want to improve the damage of our guns we have to improve ammo right?
>>1012960I support the division of labor, not sure if thats an action we are taking or just a decision we are making
>>1013022Improve durability for greater powder loads. Improving ammunition means different types of munition I believe, which doesn't always lead to just improved damage.
Granted, if we are not yet operating on lead shot levels yet, it's quite troubling.
>>1013069Wasnt quite sure since up here >>1012240there is no durability for powder load but there is an ammunition quality. Just wasnt sure if there were any other aspects being used for the gun.
>>1013022ammunition improvement would make our gunpowder and or bullets better. At the moment we have it good enough provided we bring up the model to adequate standard.Damage can be improved by quite a lot of things, of which better gunpowder is one of them.It would also mean different munition a bit later on.>>1013115we are using lead shot>>1013124Would be an element of ammunition quality. At the moment we haven't really done anything in regards to durability - the reliability so far was just using better materials that would work better. Stronger barrel would be included within durability.---I looked around the workshop and decided to act upon the lack of proper fine tools and benches. The forge was a bit lacking, and the molds were not good quality. While I was sure that I could produce an adequate prototype for the army in time, I would not be very content.I took another look at my Qua design. I fired a few rounds - making certain to clean the gun carefully after every shot - and once again found the time it took to fire and reload safely to be vast. In a battle only a single shot could be fired before the cavalry would close in. So I would spend much of my week forming a better reload design.As for my menials, they were much too lacking to be worth making capable of building guns individually. They must be given a different method.I devised to get them to split up into pairs and learn to make a specific part. Two would make the barrel, two would make small parts, two woodworkers, and on it would go. An added side effect of my genius idea, was that they would never be able to rebel against me to make their own gun manufactory, for only I knew how to make the entire gun, and they would be unlikely to work together without my leadership...----Roll 4d100
Rolled 59, 48, 74, 46 = 227 (4d100)>>1013323Let's give it a shot!
Rolled 83, 60, 14, 83 = 240 (4d100)>>1013323
Rolled 76, 5, 63, 55 = 199 (4d100)>>1013323
83, 60, 74, 83First things first, replacing the tools with better ones. I ordered blacksmiths to make them. They did. I also had the forge improved a little. Hotter flame, slightly larger. And then I personally crafted molds to fit my updated ideas.Next on my agenda was improving the fuse design so that it would go off faster, and I added replacement fuses so that it could be reloaded and fired faster. Still, there were a number of other adjustments before reloading would be improved enough to warrant its own model number.[60/150 to reloading level 2]--My division of labour plan for my menials worked out rather well. In pairs they can make a number of adequate quality specific parts. Several times more than they would otherwise make making guns individually. Not perfect just yet, but a significant improvement.[menials making full guns is now obsolete. Making parts order is much more effective]---2 more weeks until the admins check up on how we are doing3months-2weeks left before military needs our best model.---I decided to take an afternoon off to reward myself for the genius of division of labour and improving my workshop. But all rest must come to an end. This third week..>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>Improve workers>improve upon the ammunition>improve the work shop>write in---And my orders for the menials were (2 of them)>make parts of guns>design something>teach themselves>write in
>>1013433>>improve upon an aspect of the Qua modelReloading>>improve upon the ammunition>>make parts of guns>>teach themselves
>>1013454Sure I'll support this. Though I would rather specialize in accuracy and range.
>>1013490we can specialize in accuracy and range but the military would typically prefer being able to fire faster. Especially if they are shooting a mounted units are going to charge at the riflemen.
>>1013541>>1013490>>1013454Okay, working on completing the reloading, and making the ammunition better.Setting our workers to making parts. And teaching themselves, which will be to do with improving their crafting skill in their assigned division.---Roll
Rolled 60, 24, 57, 44 = 185 (4d100)>>1013554
Rolled 6, 19, 94, 67 = 186 (4d100)>>1013554>>1013541Well that's if we're specifically talking about repelling cavalry charges, as the opening of a skirmish or in the event of a prolonged skirmish, accuracy and range is better. And typically speaking most battles had skirmishes that lasted for days. Additionally there were far more seiges than battles.
>>1013570true but cavalry are the terror of most ranged units, mostly due to them being trained for only ranged and not equipped at all for melee(stupid cost efficiency in armies). Least when it is from pre-modern military.Granted being able to fire farther and accurate will definitely help us, lest sale wise, and shooting farther can offset the reload time if we can make it go the distance.
Rolled 85, 41, 70, 37 = 233 (4d100)>>1013554
>>1013565>>1013570>>101358285,41,94,67I spent another week trying to finish the reloading upgrade. I am almost done with it, just a little bit more to do. I have designed a new way of cleaning out the barrel. It's a long metal rod with cloth around it. And the fuses are fixed. All that is needed it adjusting the barrel to have slightly larger hole for a larger fuse so it's easier to put in it.(145/150 to level 2 reloading. Overkill points will apply)---Ammunition was sub optimal and needed to be improved. I didn't make much progress, but my beginning experiments with packing gunpowder more tightly in the barrel, and adjusting the shape of the lead shot were showing promise.(41/150 level 2 ammunition)---My workers did a fantastic job now that they knew how to do their job. An abundance of individual parts have been made. I have more parts to experiment on and adjust without having to worry about a lack of parts. Not all were made good enough, but a good amount were.(20 gun parts of each type. Practical experimentation will be easier, and making prototypes will be faster due to not needing to make as many parts for a single prototype test)---They were capable of obeying my orders to improve themselves, and each can make better parts.(menials are almost Fairly Poor rather than Poor quality)---3 months minus 3 weeks.One week till inspection>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>Improve workers>improve upon the ammunition>improve the work shop>write in---And my orders for the menials were (2 of them)>make parts of guns>design something>teach themselves>write in
>>1013611>>improve upon an aspect of the Qua modelReload and accuracy.(Might as well go for the finish on that now. Once we are done we can deal with damage next time and swap between accuracy and range)>design something>teach themselves
Rolled 63, 64, 100, 1 = 228 (4d100)>>1013708
Now this sounds like something I could get into
Rolled 90, 48, 26, 38 = 202 (4d100)>>1013708Rollan
Rolled 66, 71, 73, 60 = 270 (4d100)>>1013708
Okay I am back from dinner.>>1013743:)>>1013717>>1013751>>101375290, 71, 100, 60pretty good.
While I only had to finalize the adjustments to the reloading mechanisms, I had some inspiration. Why not make a barrel that can break, allowing the ammunition to be put in without having to have the entire barrel to shove the stuff into? I was able to make something called a Breach mechanism. Like the picture I have sketched up right here. Except not as advanced.This impressive leap of design will stand me in good.Discovered breech loading gunThough I would have to spend some time getting my Qua model updated to the superior style.My efforts to improve accuracy have been bearing some fruit. Nowhere near completed, but adjusting the shape of the lead shot to be longer and slightly more like an arrow has made it go a little further. And I have been adjusting the length of the barrel.(71/200 before level 3 range)To my utter amazement, my orders to the menials were taken up with exuberance and, and this will shock you to, success. The menials took it upon themselves to go beyond just drawing pathetic doodles on paper.In their pairs, they made significant improvements to designs of parts. One even messed around with alloys and found a less brittle whilst just as hard copper alloy for use with some of the firing mechanisms.An entire quality level in reliability has been figured out by my men.Reliability is now level 2. Menials have also surged into "Fairly Poor" qualityI then told them to teach themselves a little more, which they had already, as mentioned above. From Fairly Poor, they may just make it to Below Average by next month.(Menials are Fairly Poor, 60/200 till Below Average).----The Administration inspection arrived at the day they said they would. As was expected, since the Administration is highly punctual and top notch. One of the Song Dynasty's greatest strengths."Hello Administrator Kitchai, would you like to see my progress on the Gun designs and prototypes me and my menials are working on?""Yes, first off, your workshop is much improved. I can see it is clean and there are better tools...That is a very interesting gun. I have never seen a design like that... You say that it's designed to be broken along the hinges? and loaded after being cleaned? very revolutionary make I must say.""Yes Administrator, it was a stroke of genius if I might say so myself. It is called a Breech Loader. The army will be much more powerful once I have improved every other aspect.Right now, without any wear and tear, and without stress, I can use the latest prototype to fire lead across the room, leaving a dent in the wall but no real damage. It makes a pig bleed when fire from here at it when we bring in one for testing.However, given two months I shall have a gun capable for the army to use. It may not be as reliable as an archer with a bow and arrow, but it will be scary for horses and have stopping power. Our present focus has been on reload time, range, reliability and accuracy..."
"...That sounds logical. I would like it if you made sure that when I or a subordinate visits next month at the same time of day, that you can reliably kill a pig from across the room. Also I will remind you to remember that the gun will be used by soldiers who are going to make errors, so try to make the guns not too fragile and finnicky.""Thank you Administratory Kitchai, would you like a tea..."And so my first appointment went quite well. Kitchai rewarded me with more resources and authority. The other gun designers are now ordered to give me a copy of their designs. Looking through the diagrams and notes, I was able to get enough research for one upgrade to my design.>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model >Reliability >Range >Accuracy >Reliability >Reload >Recoil >write in>improve upon the ammunition
Goodnight all, thanks for playing
>>1013847Thanks for running
>>1013843>RecoilLess recoil = less time spent on training soldiers = Faster blitzkrieg
>>1013843>RecoilAlso, OP, can you please list what our current status is on all on our model?
Qua 1.000 model. 1 in every stat apart from 2 in range and accuracy.Qua 1.001 model, 1 in every stat but 2 in reliability accuracy and range.Latest design for the pre-breech: Level 1: all, with Ammunition (41/150 to next)Level 2: Reloading, accuracy and rangeLevel 3: Reliability, Recoil (since this latest vote is in favour of recoil)Breech loading gun: Level 1: all, with Ammunition (41/150 to next)Level 2: Accuracy and range (71/200) Level 3: Reliability, Reloading, Recoil (since this latest vote is in favour of recoil)---Menials are Fairly Poor, 60/200 till Below AverageWorkshop decentNOW good night :) I have work tomorrow but will try to do an update before hand, and update after work.
>>1013926Range = More power, correct?
>>1013967>Damage can be improved by quite a lot of things, of which better gunpowder is one of them.It would also mean different munition a bit later on.Most likely
Biggest issue I believe is that it doesn't reliably kill it's target yet within any reasonable distance.There are couple of things we can work on. 1. More efficient ammunition. Namely, producing powder that has more kick to it. 2. Increase the lenght of the weapon, this will naturally make it more expensive as it will consume more metal, but will save on ammo costs.3. Producing more reliable guns, meaning they can handle bigger powder loads. Naturally, better recoil management will also contribute to being able to handle bigger powder loads. Having a breechloader is all well and good, but the increase in rate of fire isn't that drastic when you gotta clean the gun after every shot after all. It is however, far more ergonomic to do so with a breechloader than with a muzzle loader, seeing that you can prime and load the weapon in one go.
>>1013967Pretty sure it just means the projectile flies off farther and more accurately
could we push for a double rifle of some sort? That and improved shot and powder could do us some good.
>>1014021Which in turn would imply more velocity, which in turn would imply more power.
>>1014037We're still working on handgonne territory though, meaning we don't even have regular rifles.
>>1014040double handgonne then, to improve on reload times/better volley fire ability before a charge?
>>1014047Having multiple barrels would increase reload times and unless the weapon can take out at least horses somewhat reliably, then at this point of developement, it would make little sense to add additional barrels. I personally believe that in consideration of the type of war that Chinese typically wage, we should focus on developing a weapon capable of penetrating multiple troops, slaying cavalry and most importantly, breaking the enemy morale.
>>1014051I don't think we've got ergonomic stocks like that just yet.
>>1013926So do any of the qua models have a mounting point for a bayonet? Because having a bayonet seems like a good idea to me.
>>1014203This is basically the type of weapon we're operating with right now. We've got a breechloading handgonne which is pretty weak.
>>1014203Basically you stick it at the end of a stick and fire away. You can't exactly make a mounting point for a a bayonet into one of these, because they're simply too small. It would make more sense to attach it to another weapon.
>>1014487Ah. How far off do you think we are from transitioning into a more rifle-like design from our current handgonne design?
>>1014203Actually here's an idea.A multi purpose cleaning rod.Essentially a standard rod with a cleaning end, but on the other end is a split in the rod with two prongs to hold the gun. We add a small nub the size of the powdered part to the cleaning end and wallah. You can clean the barrel just fine, then stick the stub into the ground and lay the gun on the prongs for extra stability when firing.
>>1014705Then we can clip the rod to the underside of the gun when not in use, and the sharp nub at the cleaning end can be used as a bayonet. The blood of the enemy will soak the cloth and make the barrel oiled and easier to get guff out of.
>>1014596Extend the barrel, attach a stock and stick a firing mechanism on it and you've got a something that looks like a rifle.
>>1014705Well, first thing we ought to do is figure out what exactly is the thing that's making our gun so weak that it can't put a hole in a wall.There's three possible options. 1. The gas seal is weak (most likely situation)2. The barrel is too short, meaning that the projectile doesn't have time to achieve sufficient acceleration to reach lethal speeds.3. The powder load is too light (unlikely as the recoil is sufficient to cause bruising)I believe we should improve upon the ammunition and the barrel asap to get it fit for military use and then start working on the reliability of it. Two priorities right now are to make it lethal and then make it safe.
what time period does this quest even take place?
>>101660213th century Song Dynasty China. About 30 to 40 years before Kublai Khan with the help of Marco Polo beat the living shit out of Liu Biaoi.Breech loaders were invented in the 14th century.So some of our designs are a century ahead, but our handgun is not reliably lethal even at low range yes.>>1015414desu I am not even a gun enthusiast, I just wanted to have a research focused quest where us being on the historical losing side would allow us to advance tech relatively fast without autowinning.Update coming soon
>>1017609Glad you're back
>>1017623Thanks:)Actually, the voting hasn't happened yet.For us: >Improve workshop>improve workers>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>Reliability>Range>Accuracy>Reliability>Reload>Recoil>write in>improve upon the ammunitionMenials:>make parts of guns>design something>teach themselves>write in
>>1017637For us:>>improve workersImprove upon an aspect of the qua model>ReliabilityMenials:>teach themselves
I will take into account the discussion above. At about level 4 improvements the aspect approaches competence, though depending on the aspect it's more or less important.
>>1017637>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>Reliability>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>Reliability>teach themselves>teach themselves
>>1017637>Improve workers>Improve upon the ammunition>teach themselves>teach themselvesGood to see you again.
Hmm does anyone want to tie break?
>>1017889Just change my vote to Reliability then so we can move on. Not a big deal.
>>1017637> reliabilitySince our next task is taking down a pig I don't think ammunition would be holding us back, unless we have slugs that are too small for the barrel or are not packing the powder (packet?) right. We need to increase the efficiency that the explosive force is transferred to the bullet.
Also a point of interest, putting a hole in a pig and killing it (in a short enough time to demonstrate) are two different things. Growing up we killed pigs by shooting them in the head with a .22 to knock them out. The we would slit their throat and stand well back as they woke up and started panicking as they bleed out.
>>1017907Was it the impact of the round against the skull that knocked them out?
>>1017907yeah, pigs are tough to kill, the Administrator doesn't know that guns take a while before they can kill reliably. Still, it's a target we hopefully can meet.Reliability times 2Teach themselves times 2Roll
Rolled 63, 78, 45, 38 = 224 (4d100)>>1017918rollin>>1017919neat
Rolled 62, 63, 3, 57 = 185 (4d100)>>1017918Like this?
Rolled 28, 47, 29, 14 = 118 (4d100)>>1017918
>>1017926>>1017928>>101792963, 78,45, 57Not too bad.writing
>>1017935I assume this means we made the bare minimum amount of progress in each area. I hope we figure out how to properly maximize the explosive force on the round soon.
I focused all my first week of the second month on making a more reliable model. I figured out how to seal the ammunition within the barrel better, so much more of the gunpowder's explosion would be released as propellant for the bullet. As opposed to how it was before hand where much of the explosion was dissipated through the trigger and ignition mechanism.I also strengthened the barrel and made a more distinct chamber for the munitions. Instead of just a tube with a breech it is now more refined.Reliability has improved to level 4, and ammunition has been improved to level 2 by having better mechanism allowing more efficient powder usage. The gun can reliably fire twice before requiring a thorough clean. At least in workshop environment.My orders for my menials was to work on themselves again. There were some errors, but overall the complete focus on improvement without doing other stuff too, meant that they could flourish. Still not quite there yet.Menials are 142/200 till Below Average--->>1017943We certainly improved and ammunition efficiency is better.
Us:>Improve workshop>improve workers>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>Reliability>Range>Accuracy>Reliability>Reload>Recoil>write in>improve upon the ammunition---Menials>make parts of guns>design something>teach themselves>write in
>>1017997>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>Accuracy>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>Range>teach themselves>teach themselves
>>1017997>Improve Workshop>Improve Accuracy>Teach Themselves>Teach ThemselvesIt's been awhile since we improved our workshop. It might help us save time later.
>>1017997Us:>Improve workshop>try to maximize muzzle velocity on the Qua model (increase barrel length)Menials:>make parts of guns>teach themselves
Okay so Improve workshop has been locked in for one of our two personal actions.>what is the second personal action?Teach themselves Times Two is locked in for the menials.
>>1018037I still say we should try and maximize muzzle velocity by experimenting with longer barrels
Okay.Roll for workshop, muzzle velocity (which will probably help range in some way too)double teach.roll
Rolled 52, 26, 19, 38 = 135 (4d100)>>1018061
Rolled 58, 47, 51, 16 = 172 (4d100)>>1018061
Rolled 49, 97, 94, 79 = 319 (4d100)>>1018061
>>1018064>>1018066>>101809658, 97, 94, 79Really good.Writing v soon
Ahh, better tools for my rapidly advancing ideas. I made special measuring rods, clamps and finer saws. I also experimented with different woods, so that I could better determine the damage my experimental guns were doing in test firing.Reasonable improvements but nothing revolutionary.What was revolutionary, was my realization that a longer barrel means faster muzzle velocity. I in fact didn't consider muzzle velocity at all previously. Faster bullet of course means it does more damage, with more momentum and longer range.So I doubled the length of the barrel and adjusted a few other parts to accommodate the change. It had a significant effect. Instead of being a bit of a spitting behaviour - sort of flopping out the muzzle - it flew out and heavily dented the wooden wall across the room.Damage and range improved a level eachAgain I ordered my menials to improve themselves. They succeeded, to say the leastNowhere near your skill level, they are still capable of good quality parts and are able to do their own improvements upon the specific parts they are assigned.Menials are now Below Average (115/250 before Average). Actually capable of progressing designs now---Ending for the night, will do a compilation of what improvements and designs we have a bit later.Pic related is the Administrator.Also feel free to do discussion :)
>>1018166thanks for running man.
>>1018174I can't wait until we end up making the Song dynasty hold off the Mongols with 15th century weaponry.If you want to read a quest that inspired this quest, https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/deus-ex-mechanicus-reboot-quest-thread.312597/One of the best quests I know of.
>>1018189Sounds interesting, and I have a few hours to kill anyways. Thanks for that. I'm excited to start wrecking shit
>>1018166Thanks for running. I'm curious to see how far we can advance.
>>1018196>inb4 we advance far enough to get mosin's
I hope we take this gun toward a new and unique design direction instead of just recreating a historical gun we already know works
>>1018332Gun design is already interesting, maybe we can design Canons and artillery later on.Maybe have a sort of legacy that will allow the Song to become a world power and fend off the Western colonisation (if it ever happen) and extend our influence.As is breach loading swivel guns are pretty good tech and if we can find a way to allow production to follow technology we might be able to actually arm ships and fend off any foreign agression and maybe gay some hegemony.Or you know we could do cool stuff like not helping the Song and defecting to another nation or seize some part of power within the Army.Just arrived and read the thread but this has got huge potential to be fun.
>>1018350Well, history does show that access to new weapons does rarely lead to radical changes in combat doctrine and chinese society is quite rigid. Depending on the direction which the guns shall take, it will not be at all surprising that the weapon will be reserved for the nobility and their close retainers due to its nature to fend off a cavalry attack, potentially pierce armor as well as requiring powder supply lines to keep it operational. Especially considering the sizes of chinese levies
>>1018373best way to diversify our program in a way that would make us relevant in warfare woul be to create arrow rocket artillery like Hwacha and Singijeons.They could be quite useful to light wodden siege construct on fire.Also Swivel guns are 100% relevant and important and could lead to actually useful weapons that could be loaded on ships since we don't need to mass produce them since ships are going to be rare anyhow.And cannons even if primitive and breach loading are relevant in siege as always since huge canons could breach Gates.On a more historical point we could work on developing a new and improved Pen Huo Qi or other kinds of flamethrowers.But you are right to say we might not be able to influence greatly history and if we do influence history it would be uncertain that it would lead to favorable results because we have limited control on destiny.
>>1018350Ultimately though, the entire conflict took place to protect opium trade.China did actually have access to guns back then, but ultimately was corrupt and divided.
>>1018379Hwacha and Singijeon neither are capable pf actually setting things on fire. They are however, excellent at scaring the crap out of enemies, which is really important when dealing with the sort of mass war Chinese wage. Swivel guns would be awesome and relevant, you are correct. China however, is not much of a naval power though in the means of navigation or ship quality. Still, you need waterproof cartridges for that. Swivel guns are excellent for defending sieges though, seeing that they can penetrate multiple targets, which is sort of what we want.Cannons are great for breaking gates and for firing back at enemy artillery.
>>1018389>is not much of a naval powerFrankly since what we're mostly initially aiming to do is to defend our shores, we don't need a huge naval tradition, if we bring breach loading swivel guns on a ship before 1450, and judging by how early on tech is going right now we might be able to do production of theses as early as 1250 since we currently are in around 1160-1200.Naval swivel guns would be VERY RELEVANT in naval fights if perfected, it's ming dynasty tech made accesible in Song dynasty era and i would go as far as saying it would greatly overpower other navies even if fitted on something like a cog.We just need to work on Range and Reliability.Waterproof catridges would indeed require us to work on our gunpowder but i think that having a breach-loading canon is 100% relevant in naval warfare especially when you're the only one to have one.
>>1018397Wouldn't say they'd greatly overpower other navies with just swivel guns, you'd certainly get an edge, but ultimately swivel guns don't really sink ships as much as they mess up boarding parties. They could still set your ship on fire from range just as easily as they did before.
>>1018479Alright let's consider we don't fuck up and create a swivel gun with reasonable qualities for our time.I'd imagien the size to be close to a french 4 pounder but with half it's range due to the power being lost because of breach loading purely for hypothesis.That bring us to a Maximum Range of 600 meters.Knowing an English longbow can fire arrows up to 370 meters we'd have a 230 meter range advantage against primitive navies.But "hold on i might hear you say next", "Wouldn't competent navies have more advance artillery".That is true but knowing a scorpio Maximum range to be around 400 meters and the polybos around 460 meterswe still would SEVERLY outrange them by more than 100 meters.Which is more than enough with competent crew and navigation to at least fire two shots BEFORE THEY EVEN GET INTO RANGE.Meaning we could easily fit ships with a few of thoses and with up to two of thoses on the sides get 4 shots in.The shots would be around 2 kg and with this kind of kinetic energy at long range it would be able to cause damage to a ship especially if you manage to have multiple ships and have faster ships.While also at close range being able to switch to shoot canister shots.Overall this would HEAVILY outmatch any other form of ship mounted atillery which is far from irrelevant.
>>1018498 I remain unconvinced that a swivel gun can hit, let alone penetrate through the hull of a good ship at that range reliably.Even if that were the case, there is also the issue of how many guns and how much gunpowder do you actually need to make a difference if you use it for long ranges and is it even economically viable to use for anything except as a defensive weapon? I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if the technology is there, that doesn't necessarily mean that the demand is there, which really is the biggest issue here at the moment. Price of human life is cheap in China after all and when land war is the primary threat in the foreseeable future, investing in naval weapons doesn't make much sense.
>>1018498That is not to say that during our character's lifetime swivelguns wouldn't necessarily see action. Rapidly deployable portable defensive siege weapon definately would have a demand, even if producing and firing it was more expensive than the more conventional siege weapons simply because you put firepower where it's needed, when it's needed, provided it's power is at least equivalent to a roman scorpio.
>>1018553I think the main strengh that represent lower weight and range would not only make it an amazing weapon but shape our naval strategy.Having a ship with a siege weapon that weight pretty much nothing mean we can actually invest in making fast ships meaning it doesn't matter if if the weapon need to fire 30 shots on target before taking down an enemy ship since it can afford to stay in it's comfortable range against other siege weapons ships.Also it would for sure not replace old ships tactics entirely which is mainly getting into melee range and either completly obliterating your ships either with infantry weaponry or just greek fire.But i think adding weapons which can hit albeit not reliably at higher range than everything else is important. Accuracy also is not a huge problem since breach reload mean we can shoot often and correct shots, this would however mean that it would be a costly weapon to use.Overall your concern are well placed regarding power but not that horrible when you realize you can simply fire at a much higher rate than most weapons and higher range whilst not putting a huge weight onto the ship.I don't think it would replace all kinds of ship within our army or find it's way onto every ship but it would easily become a widespread component of our navy.Concerning other naval weapon we should work on flamethrowers too because the addition of gunpowder and the simple fact that at this current era they are pretty advanced in the Song dynasty would mean we could create pretty good equipement at long and close range for the navy.
>>1018583I just don't see it happening really. Without massive stockpiles of gunpowder as well as a multiple docks capable of resupplying them with it, the idea of arming a navy with swivel guns seems far fetched. Not only that, 30 shots won't take down a single ship. Not with swivel guns anyhow. Fire 300-1000 shots and you might be getting somewhere and that's really expensive when usage of gunpowder isn't widespread. Also, there's the cost involved. Not only do you need a workshop capable of casting such large pieces of metal, the actual metal cost for each individual gun is quite significant if we're going to 4 pounder range since we're talking about quite heavy chunks of metal and let's face it, we definately wouldn't be starting on that end if we started making Swivel guns.As to the rate of fire, well, we've managed to make a breechloading mechanism work on a handgonne, that doesn't mean that the same mechanism will work with heavier powder loads.
Absolutely loving this discussion. Will definitely be having as much of it being used as possible.Luckily we are an educated genius. AND have support from a highly competent dynasty.So being centuries ahead of the historical gun designs will be totally possible. And yes, we will be able to make guns that don't exist in the same way in real life. If we research for it and have the rolls.----Our two main designs are both handgonnes.One is a breach loader with our most updated designs, and one is a standard muzzle loader that has a bit less reliability and power.---You know the drill for voting on actions.Vote :)
>>1019397>Improve workshop>improve upon the ammunition>teach themselves>teach themselves
>>1019397>>improve upon an aspect of the Qua modelReliability>>improve upon an aspect of the Qua modelDurability//not sure if I can count that as an aspect. Trying to fined a way to make it to were it will be less likely to break in the field. Wasnt sure if that would be reliability or something else.>>menialsDesign somethingDesign something
>>1019397>Improve workshop>improve upon the ammunition>teach themselves>teach themselvesWe want to be able to produce a fair few of these guns and to have them be effective. This is the quickest way really. As ammunition improvements will work for any gun, even those not made by us whilst workshop refinement means better everything; prototypes, parts and production models.
>>1019446>>1019445>>1019421Maybe after improving the workshop we could start hiring more menials as apprentice for our Educated menials to teach thus doubling our workforce.We also should start forming a hierachy within our workshop and define Teams of manufacturing.This of course is just an idea and maybe could use some refining.
>>1019397>Improve workshop>Improve ammunition>teach themselves>teach themselvesAlso will there be more character interaction?
>>1019468I was thinking we should hire some... younger workers. Their smaller (more precise) hands, greater energy, ability to learn, creativity and other such benefits would make them very useful.Though I would argue these workers would require a educated, to the degree of our current workers if not better, overseer to manage them.
>>1019468Great idea. We should also find warriors to test our designs on the field. We want designs so good that only twenty good men could slaughter an army armed with them.
>>1019468I was honestly thinking we needed to work on the gun itself and make it more reliable for the average soldier to use with out much issue, hence having the menials also design some sine they are now at the stage to be able to improve certain designs, then we can improve the workshop size and our labor
>>1019496i agree that having a useful gun is great but, actually producing it is a concern too.Also expending our workforce mean we invest more in future design than in current ones by focusing on increasing workforce overall productivity instead of cashing out now.Also they're barely able to design right now and we might want them to be Average at least before having them design before they make terrible mistakes.>>1019491>>1019483So let's plan this out>hire 12 young mens (blacksmith apprentice ect...)>Have them work under the supervision of our current menials and be thaught by them>Hire a few veteran/soldier/guards/peasants to test the guns as a way of testing ease of use and teaching people how to use the prototype even while it's being designed for maximum trainingAny other idea?I thought that maybe later on when we reach higher Quantities of menials we could split them up into design teams and work on different projects maybe.
When you guys have completed discussion we will need to clarify our personal actions. The menials look to be set at teaching themselves
>>1019542It seems like we want to hire more workers / a weapons tester or two and improve the workshop.
>>1019542well so far we've got 4 votes to work on ammo and the workshop.Am i missing something regarding the votes?
>>1019528>Any other idea?Better materials. Our current materials for the gun itself are prone to rust and our current formula for the gunpowder are prone to causing it to rust.
Hiring more workers and some human hamsters.Improving upon our ammunition.Double Workers Improving themselvesRoll
Rolled 96, 49, 1, 65 = 211 (4d100)>>1019589
Oh yes I think we are approaching the end of our second month of our three month deadline.
Rolled 25, 5, 75, 67 = 172 (4d100)>>1019589Love me dice gods
Rolled 65, 36, 80, 20 = 201 (4d100)>>1019589
>>1019604we should have a good amount of actual working hand cannons ready for then right?Well i propose we use our last 2 weeks on production, workshop improvement and material/ammunition improvement.Maybe we should use our our two turn left before then actually improving the gun itself HEAVILY.
>>1019625I think we should focus on reload time, reliability and range. Seeing as accuracy can be made up for with rank fire and recoil is a rather pointless concern considering the troops won't exactly complain, if they survive.
>>1019625I am game for that.Can we actually kill a pig reliably now? It was never clearly stated, just that we caused varying dents in pieces of would.
>>1019637Rifling improved damage so I guess we could.
>>1019637We need quite a bit more Power I believe.>>1019635we should work on muzzle velocity/power a bit more too.>>1019646>rifling>without casting>in 1161slow down there m8
>>1019655Sorry I'm not /k/ savvy.
>>1019625The deadline is to create a working prototype that the army can use. Having a stock of them isn't required but will be a bonus. It will also help our nation's war effort what with having a group of soldiers provided with weapons asap.>>1019637We can hurt pigs but not kill them unless point blank.---96,49,80,67.It's great having genius and educated, since without genius we wouldn't be using the best rolls, and educated makes teaching/menials training much better among other things.>>1019671neither :)--Writing
>>1019655Rifling is possible in theory(essentially we need a mounted hand-drill to bore into a block of metal for the barrel, largely unlikely to develop without viewing it's existence.) but would be entirely unfeasible for anything but the very richest nobility or as a novelty.
>>1019655>>rifling>>without castingIf you are referring to the cartridge that houses a modern day bullet. There were paper variants that were used as early as 1590. Napoleonic troops used them for there rifles also.
>>1019671neither am I but like rifling would require some form of casting or really talented Smiths and for a canon ball shaped ammo it wouldn't be that useful to make the projectile spin to gain stability since it's round.Overall we lack the tech to do so in metalurgy.Also just keep wikipedia open it's a handy tool and will probably make you an expert in canons in about 3 hours of posting and reading as you post.You inputs are still welcome at any time.>>1019683Hand-drills would be very complicated>>1019686There's where that discussion was supposed to end at to make us progress.
>>1019694Was just pointing them out. Also rifling and this is kinda pointless due to our (current) level of technology. Due to the cost that was pointed out by >>1019683
>>1019694They would be very complicated, that is why I said they weren't practical. Except as one-off luxuries for the ultra-rich noble hunter or such.
>>1019713>>1019708>>1019694>>1019686>>1019683Good to know.How about we try to develop something like assembly lines?
>>1019755>assembly lines>without casting>without actual lines>without any form of non manual labor>without interchangable parts within a reasonable margin of errorSeems a bit early.We should hire more people instead, seems safer and more certain to yield direct result in productivity.
>>1019755That would be the logical conclusion of our current management organisation but I think we have higher priorities.So obviously we are trying to get the damn gun to stop being a metal pipe and to actually be something that could be a musket or such.So obviously, creating a brace / stock would not only help with recoil but with accuracy. Thanks to the ability to aim it more precisely and fire from the shoulder.
>>1019771Regarding addition to ease Recoil and increasing utility we should work on puting them on wheels or turrets that can swivels or at least move a bit whilst maintaining a static position.Shouldn't be too hard but we should remenber to set that as a goal in a not so far future.
>>1019786That would be completely pointless in their current state. Though I know what you are trying to develop.Cannons, of any kind, can come later.
>>1019771>So obviously, creating a brace / stock would not only help with recoil but with accuracyWell duh. I might not be /k/ savvy but even I thought that was the next logical progression.>>1019767I said like assembly lines. I know true assembly are impossible with our current tech but I wonder if we can get something like it.
Guys, why do we need more people when we haven't even gotten our first comission yet? We can't exactly conjure funding out of thin air. We're still in developement phase. We can worry about the mass production AFTER we've got a weapon that can reliably kill and scare cavalry.
>>1019801>I said like assembly lines. I know true assembly are impossible with our current tech but I wonder if we can get something like it.Oh you meant specialized worker?Well that would probably help with specific part design but realistically it's much too soon since the design is changing rapidly and knowledge of the overall design is stil needed quite a lot and i expect to have our design team be our production teams at the same time meaning they need to have extensive knwoledge of the design which defeat the purpose of specialized labor that only work on one task which is mainly to bring apprenticeship prices down.>>1019811We're hire more people to push a first batch out early to get funding because we make our presence known on the battlefield thus getting funding from some Generals as well as nobles.
>>1019811We started this quest with a commission; read the OP post for god sake!
>>1019811>kill cavalryAlso we don't need to kill cavalry as much as we need to make them fall off their horse and stampede their own mens and generaly be left in chaos.
>>1019755anons have done distribution of labour, our menials do their assigned parts, without working on the entire gun making process. With one month remaining to my deadline, I anticipated the need for more workers to produce as many copies as possible once the prototype was completed.So I used my fairly small budget to go out and hire more people.I wasn't expecting to be impressed, but I was. Twelve young men, several of whom were up and coming blacksmith apprentices, others were artisan apprentices and one was even a petty nobility's son just finished university. Good quality workers with eyes for details and skilled hands.I also realized that I would need some people to test fire my inventions for ease of use and how to use them, so that when a soldier grade weapon was produced there would already be a few people with training.I succeeded greatly. Half a dozen older men, 3 of whom were veterans from the frontline who had fought and killed Jin dynasty soldiers. The other three were ordinary men who were quite disposable. If I had any worries about the dangers of a design I would use them for test firing of it.Gained 12 skilled young workers. Gained 3 veterans and 3 peasants for test use.With that great increase of labour force, it was now time to improve upon the ammunition I would use in my designs, and potentially provide to other manufacturers.Alas I was unable to make nearly as much progress as I would have liked to. I was able to start experimenting with paper cartridges, which once I figure out a working method, will make it much easier for the troops to use. All they would need to do would have a box of cartridges already filled with gunpowder, then put it in the gun with the bullet. Well, that is how I hope it works.49/200 till ammunition to level 3, will also improve ease of use and reload speedI was relieved to note, however, that another week of my menials improving themselves was highly effective. My new additions to the work force also fit in nicely, and were extremely happy to be on the cutting edge of technology. The veterans especially were delighted to see a new ranged weapon being developed.I don't suppose I can really call them menials anymore. I will refer to them as workers. I can take their designs and other ideas seriously now.(Menials now Average. To be Above average, they are 12/350 points left)---The Administrator visits at the end of this second month."...Very impress with what is going on here. I am deeply looking forward to seeing the product of commission. Glad to see you have some veterans working for you. Their input will be important....">>1019818>>1019811We have a commission. Our deadline is to see if we get it continued, how much our reward will be. If we succeed at the Administrator's demand, we will have a lot more freedom and influence in the gunsmith area.That and Song Dynasty's survival depends on us.
One month remaining.Personal actions (2):>voteWorkers (3 now due to the increase in workers and the higher skill):>vote
>>1019865>improve upon the ammunition>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model>Range>design somethingRange>design somethingPower>design somethingReliability
>>1019865>Reliability>Reload time>Range>Power>Accuracy>>1019876We should focus on ammo in the last two weeks when we have to produce the guns.
>>1019865>improve ammunition>improve range>design something>design something>make parts for guns
>>1019898realistically 2 rolls are unsure to reach 75 each.So i'd rather get it out of the way sooner and then work on the workshop.
>>1019865Wait now that I think of it could we make a few for our gun for the vets to test and review.>>1019905If you insist.
>>1019920getting above 75 two time on a 3d100 isn't nothing short of uncertain and i'm not willing to sacrifice an upgrade that could GREATLY improve reload times and ease of transport for some minmaxing at high risks.I'd feel much safer with one roll less on reload times and one roll more on a workshop but at least safely getting that Ammunition upgrade.
>>1019865Attempt to improve upon recoil, reliability, muzzle velocity as well as reliability at the same time by making the muzzle diameter smaller, thus using a lighter projectile.
>>1019920yes. Generally we end up making at least one for making sure our new design changes actually works in practice. Due to our distribution of labour there are guns made - most people make parts, but there are a few workers trained in putting it all together. Those guys can't make any of the parts of course though.
I just realized that the reason why our gun might be just leaving dents on the wall while having huge muzzle velocity is because we might be just using a fuckhuge projectile.
>>1019951Or it could be poorly shaped.
>>1019951I think the main problem might just be our breach loading mechanism's seal.But a smaller projectile or simply bigger charge could solve the power problem anyhow and it cost very few ressources to build a smaller prototype while it actually working could easily bring both more power and most cost efficiency.I think we should focus on sealing the breach mechanism first to see what happens and if that fail resort to making the canon more thin.
Is anyone opposed of the idea of trying to rush towards getting pistols as soon as possible? There's really no form of anti-cavalry sidearm in the market at this time + if you stick it on cavalry, it'll be pretty effective against all targets.
>>1019980pre-rifling and casting pistols are retarded, we should try to rush for canons and then transition to Muskets and THEN to rifles.Remind yourself that we aren't using smokeless firearms making most handguns pretty much weak and overall wildly inaccurate in a battlefield scenario.Frankly Muskets are the only infantry weapon we should rush and that can wait a bit since right now we're just struggling to push our OUR FIRST WEAPON into production, ambition is good but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
>>1019975Well, just hear me out on this one. Imagine if you'd have say, 25% or 50% wider diameter on the muzzle on something like this. While you're correct, the breech loading mechanism will create leakage, but at the same time it's not unreasonable to believe that if their starting point for ammunition was something like lead shot made for a sling, the bullet would be oversized, recoil huge and the damage lacking.
As usual I will ask for a consolidation of votes.
>>1019900>>1019876>>1020014i suppose we could drop the double range improvement into a single range, switch power to muzzle velocity/breach sealing and move on.
Okay. PersonalAmmunition and range.Workers: Improve muzzle velocityAccuracy Reliability.---Roll
>>1020003I know we are using smokeless powder, but it would still be a functional and practical design, if it packs punch equivalent to a crossbow, seeing that it's a secondary weapon, not a primary one.Certainly a lot better than a handgonne. Skipping a potential source of funding and ability to spread product awareness seems quite stupid. If we can get some people interested in having a firearm built specifically for cavalry use, that opens up a comission for carbines.
Rolled 2, 96, 57, 31, 74 = 260 (5d100)>>1020057
Rolled 94, 17, 95, 26, 27 = 259 (5d100)>>1020057
Rolled 12, 44, 42, 25, 5 = 128 (5d100)>>1020057
94, 96,95,31,74writing after getting some lunch.
With only four more weeks remaining I desperately needed to get the flaws removed, and make the important aspects of the handgun up to scratch.I feverishly worked upon paper cartridges and I made much progress, more than I thought I would be able to. I haven't quite got it right, but the cartridges are working. All that is needed is to get the right amount of gunpowder, pack it into the chamber tightly enough, and figure out how to adjust the lead shot shape to be propelled properly.143/200 till level 3 ammunition and ease and reload improves tooI decided I needed to work on range also, for what good is a weapon that is not able to be effective at a reasonable range? I adjusted the shape of inside of the barrel to be smoother, but also have this thing called rifling. At the moment I can only have a few, but it seems to get the lead shot to spin a little, making it go further.96/250 level 5 range. Shot can reach about 10 meters, though only embeds in wood at 2.5 metersWith the workers having spent last month almost exclusively on bringing themselves up to competence, I now considered it worthwhile for them to make designs. The focus would be on muzzle velocity, accuracy and reliability. The barrel and muzzle workers had success in making improved design and make of parts, though those working on the handholds and my experimental rifling design had difficulty with the other's changing.The recent additions to the workforce were able to make sure everything was smelted and crafted to an improved quality.Still, we have a lot more to do before I can relax.Muzzle velocity is now 160m/s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_velocity as opposed to it's prior 120 m/s or less. Accuracy is slightly improved with a basic stock handles added. Reliability is improved and the guns can take a bit more damage due to having stronger parts.----
Also I think that when we decide on what to improve each turn, we will have a decision on how we do that. That way my writing can include realistic descriptions and the changes can be easier to understand.The level system will be rebalanced and adjusted once we have completed the first request.---Vote. 2 personal. 3 worker.
>>1020370Improve Ammunition and RangeImprove reliability, accuracy and reload time
>>1020348That muzzle velocity would easily be able to kill a pig from across a room>>1020370>improve an aspect Reliability and ammunition>workersDesign somethingTeach themselvesTeach thenselves
>>1020497oh okay. :D looks like damage is sorted then.
Improve Ammunition and RangeImprove reliability, accuracy and reload timeRoll then after we know how well we did we will work out what we are doing to improve the gonne.
Rolled 7, 5, 17, 88 = 117 (4d100)>>1020542
Rolled 82, 50, 28, 88, 29 = 277 (5d100)>>1020542
82, 50, 28, 88, 88After we end the third month our workers won't get the best of the rolls they will get the averages, just making it easier for us to keep our commission.Okay.Plan what we are going to work on with our rolls. Will be fairly chilled out, so take your time.
I just realized why don't we try making a double barrel gun?
>>1020986because that would mean we would need to also take into account heating from the other barrel, and loading and stuff. We can do double barrel gun but much much later.
>>1020718Well, we still need more muzzle velocity, but the 160m/s should be well within lethal range. If we can fit it into a compact package, give it a solid firing mechanism, then we might be looking at a sidearm that while horribly inaccurate and not very lethal in long ranges, can still scare cavalry and peasant levies.At this point, reload time isn't really an issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSxFY917UH8Here's something that people might want to watch.
AY DUMB FUCKS. WE CAN ONLY HURT A PIG RIGHT NOW AND THE SOMG ADMIN WANTS US TO BE ABLE TO KILL ONE BY THE DEADLINE.1-5) Improve Power
>>1021380You are being retarded. Reread the thread.
>>1021380It should technically be able to kill one by now within the perimeters given, but the major issue still is that it is a close range tool for intimidation, rather than killing.
>>1021436Well that means it needs range and muzzle volocity and range are practical connected at the hip.
walking doggo>>1021380Well things got slightly retconned due to science not being as compartmentalized in the aspects as I planned.We can kill a pig if we hit it properly, which is a challenge since we don't have a proper stock and other things that modern guns have.And we have no armour penetration yet. though that won't be desperately needed to have the admin be happy with us.Gonna walk doggo then do an update.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_cartridgeWith four weeks left, I finished off my paper cartridge invention. Its design has been explained last diary entry, and I knew it would be good, but not quite as good as it actually ended up being.Reloading was much faster. Instead of having to pour gunpowder into the chamber, all I had to do was put in the paper cartridge. The model had been perfected and my veterans were very happy about the leap in ease of use and reload time, and in fact damage improved.Research overkilled, Ammunition level 3, Reload level 5, muzzle velocity to 180m/s, Reliability level 5, Effective range increases to embed lead shot into wall from 8 meters. however armour penetration will still be lacking a lot.Oh yes, and the workers did good work adjusting their parts design to fit my adjustments.Ending for the evening. Thanks for playing :) Our designs are improving very quickly due to our decisions being quite simple in content really. Like putting gunpowder and lead shot into a paper cartridge isn't exactly the hardest concept.Viva la Song
>>1022070thanks for the quest. Hope you'll be back later
>>1012240>Chi Long QuaThe best gunsmith the world has ever seen?
>>1022083>invent breach loading paper cartridge in 1200 AD>implying he could be anything else than th best gunsmith everRemenber he's not done yet!
>>1022082I will be doing a few updoots tomorrow after work.>>1022083And the fucking Jin Dynasty may just be fucking dead you guys... THERE GOES THE FUCKING GUNS AGAIN...Let's give the Jin a nice sexual release to the back of their inner skull...>>1022088We are only 2 centuries ahead in the paper cartridge department.
also I am very happy another CLQ disciple is here.
>>1022096I'm so excited. Thanks for running man.
To be fair a breech loading handgonne is not actually a very practical design if the barrel isn't very long and you gotta clean the barrel every couple of shots since effectively, you're just increasing production costs and adding more potential points of failure. There's a reason why breech loading weapons weren't that common for a long while despite being somewhat available in europe ever since the dawn if firearms production. Muzzle loaders are simply cheaper and more reliable.People in the past were not as stupid as you think. There's a difference between inventing something and the design actually spreading. Unless you can convince them that the breech loading mechanism is worth the extra cost, then it's probably not going to be adopted for wider usage. If you want a widespread design, it's got to be quick and easy to manufacture, reliable and do really well at the job it's supposed to do or it's got to be popular with the nobility, in which case you need it to be fun to use and powerful.
>>1022685Basically. On a side note we have the rough outline for a revolver. Least I am pretty sure we do.
>>1022687We can't make a functioning revolver easily. Given that they work using a hammer strike to a blast cap.Unlike our guns which work off of either a spark or flame against black powder. If we however advance to blast caps or can create the spark inside then it could work, maybe, kinda.
>>1022700True. It would be sketchy to though. Granted what we have is sketchy compared to some guns used in the next couple centuries.
You also gotta remember that this is the chinese theater of war and the armies are vast.The reason why firearms didn't really take off too much in China despite their existence being known is because the amount of money invested in your average soldier is quite little comparative to the professional armies of the Europe. Guns are effective at bridging the gap between a professional army and conscripts, however, if majority of the troops are nothing but poor quality grunts, then the primary demand will be for methods of fighting against those grunts. That is not to say that firearms would not have a place in such a theater, but you gotta design it for the work it's gonna see. Cavalry guns for the elites and nobility as well as light mobile artillery for breaking the morale of enemy infantry where it's needed are the primary weapon types I see fitting for chinese way of war. Ultimately, the chinese doctrine is that you should never fight elites, except with your own elites and so giving carbines to cavalry would fit their existing doctrine.We should not expect that our powder reserves or our ability to produce it as infinite.
>>1022943You raise a good point but by that logic we should only focus on four things for the infantry rifle;1) Ease of production2) Power3) Reload time4) Ease of useAs to your point about gun powder, it is fairly easy to make stuff. We just need the raw resources which are fairly easy to get, mostly.
>>1022943>Guns are effective at bridging the gap between a professional army and conscripts, however, if majority of the troops are nothing but poor quality grunts, then the primary demand will be for methods of fighting against those grunts. alternatively if we're feeling very crazy we could destroy the enemy methods of fighting against OUR GRUNTS.By rendering cavalry charges inefficient against our guns due to the shock factor.In an Elite cavalry vs Grunt soldier fight we could turn around the odds around and create enough havoc perhaps not to defeat the enemy but paralyze it enough for us to respond.The shock and awe doctrine a Handgonne allow us will be extremely efficient in the hands of creative generals.>>1022970regarding rifles there is simply not possibilities for us to actual create some at the time since those would require advance in metallurgy who would themselves require quite extensive advancement in science overall.Also breach loading rifles/muskets would be pretty good later on but would require quite a lot of work on form factor, material quality and also recoil.Also as good as muskets sound they won't replace all weapons immediacy even when we introduce them in 1350 maybe going at a similar speed we've been going, a smoking gunpowder breach loading musket would likely due to fast reload times generate HUGE amounts of smoke.
>>1023000Yeah, sorry I automatically refer to long barrel gunpowder weapons as rifles. It's a stupid thing.Yeah we should just focus on making these as fast firing, deadly, cheap and reliable as possible.
>>1023000>alternatively if we're feeling very crazy we could destroy the enemy methods of fighting against our grunts. No, we couldn't. You need to equip your levies and guns aren't cheaper than the standard kit they receive. Bow or a Spear is going to always be cheaper than a gun, not just for producing but for using as well and the price of a human life in China is almost next to nothing, meaning that mass guns will not help. In fact, quite the contrary, if we'd somehow convince the administration to make guns a standard issue weapon, then what's going to end up happening is that the enemy can just completely ignore using armor and spend that money on more cheap levies, which will grind your gunners to paste.
>>1023054>In fact, quite the contrary, if we'd somehow convince the administration to make guns a standard issue weaponthat isn't the goal.The goal is to make it present on the battlefield and to bait the enemy's elite into engaging our grunts but giving them some handgonnes so that they may fend off cavalry charges and paralyze the cavalry temporarily.It was never meant to be used BY ALL GRUNTS just to be used in some occasions by GRUNTS.The may goal isn't to replace bow and spear but to use it in a new way to counter cavalry so that it may open up new anti-cavalry tactics for our grunts to be defended from hoses elites.
>>1023054Except that wouldn't work either. Since those poorly trained levies will run as soon as the three lines of people in front of them drop down to the ground, as balls of lead whizz past their ears through a cloud of smoke and a deafening roar.Any how, we aren't talking about making them standard issue, they would always be supported by spears or something as they were in Europe.
>>1023010I disagree. Rapid rate of fire is nice and all, but I believe the mobility and power is the key here. We need to get as much out of each individual shot as we can and we need those shots placed at the key locations. We need to consider exactly how many cartridges are each individual going to be carrying to battle with them when they bring the guns to battle. If we presume they're going to be carrying something like 18 shots and they waste all those shots with barely killing anything, that's not really going to do much more than make tons of noise and smoke. The enemy needs to KNOW when a gun has been fired at their formation and they need to know there is no protection from it except to not get hit.
>>1023072How do you plan on doing that though?
>>1023074I think you're not fully grasping exactly how humongous the chinese armies were.
>>1023074Also, three lines of people is pretty generous when you don't even have a weapon that can penetrate armor, let alone hit anything reliably.
>>1023133>bait with infantry>cavalry charge>reveal the fact that this was an ambush by limiting mobility by creating sudden choke-points with rocks if it's small passes>grunts use canons>horsepanic.jpg>suddenly spear infantry can destroy the cavalry who've stopped their charge due to canon fire scaring the horses HARD and just fuck their mobility even more by attacking>complete paralysis of the Cavalry unit and removal of the chargeNoise and smoke is arguably more powerful than a spear against cavalry charges at times, there are reasons people respected thunder, it was big scary and made a fuckload of noise and can shape the way a battle goes simply because cavalry is strong but horses are generally huge cowards regarding REALLY LOUD SOUNDS.Canons don't have to actually kill the cavalry although they could likely knock a horse or two on the ground and create chaos but the sound they'd produce likely could stop a charge with fire, loud noise and smoke.Assuming you are faced with 10 000 cavalrymens and have 30 000 mens and you're in the open, you could setup an ambush using canons to stop their charge initialy when they don't expect it and maybe thin their number to 6000 after charging with canon fire breaking their charge and causing chaos within their ranks.The psychological warfare here is STRONGER than the actual weapon itself, using it as a way to stop cavalry charges and launch counter offensive with spearmens on the now panicking enemy.
>>1023166https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h4e8llcfQQjust to give a sense of how much chaos they would have to push through, imagine the video above but with fewer canon that recharge faster thanks to breach reload and with less range but defended by a great amount of spearmens.The result would be of course less impressive as is due to lower quality overall of the guns but it would still be a clear upgrade over the current status of Infantry vs Cavalry.
>>1022096How big of a lead shot are we shooting?
>>1023166>Expecting Cavalry to go after your bait in a terrain that's disadvantageous to them>Expecting handgonnes to be able to inflict 40% casualties before they can react>Expecting to be able to lay out an ambush in the open>Expecting the enemy to initiate a cavalry charge for absolutely no reason whatsoever>Expecting the enemy to go carelessly after a numerically superior force
>>1023427>Implying it's the Handgonne that would cause the casualitiesIt's role in this is precisely to cause chaos so they can't react.>Implying laying out an Ambush into the open isn't pure genuis due to the fact it's 100% unexpected>Implying cavalry's main role isn't to destroy infantry by harassing using charges on the edges of the formation
>>1023254We do not have cannons
>>1023455How many cannons do you expect us to be able to field with our current powder production capabilities?
>>1023442>5 range handgonne>muzzle velocity of 180 m/s>about 2 kg projectile>long barrelsounds like a Handcanon to meAlso it's pretty much obvious that the objective of this IS NOT TO KILL THE CAVALRY WITH ARTILLERY.THE GOAL IS TO DISORIENT AND PANIC HORSES WITH LOUD GUNS.This WORKS.It's one of the main reason cavalry DISSAPEARED IN EUROPE, it's because charges using cavalry were just fucking shit against a loud things that scare horses away and just stop your charges in it's track and leave you in the open and with 0 mobility against Infantry using spears designed to kill Cavalry.
>>1023455Also, how do you intend to acquire, not only the necessary amount of metal to produce these cannons, but also the tools necessary for casting that much metal in one go?
>>1023462Clearly you didn't then read the thread
>>1023494>Firearms, of which the hand cannon was an early example, gradually came to dominate European warfare. The hand cannon was inexpensive and easy to mass-produce. The hand cannon could act as a terror weapon to troops and horses that had never seen the weapon before. Much like the crossbow, the weapon could be effectively used by new recruits.>A hand cannon or gonne (also spelled handgonne to distinguish the device from modern handguns)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_cannoni can't make this shit up at this point you're either illiterate or simply stubborn. THE VERY CORE PURPOSE OF A HANDGONNE IS WHAT I JUST FUCKING SAID, ITS WHAT ITS MEANT TO BE USED AS AND IT IS WHAT IF WAS USED HAS A FUCKING BOOMSTICK TO SCARE HORSES.
>>1023462>96/250 level 5 range. Shot can reach about 10 meters, though only embeds in wood at 2.5 meters
>>1023522>Effective range increases to embed lead shot into wall from 8 meters. whoah you're such a fag you can't even properly give the latest data
>>1023512The Handgonne has like no range at the moment, that's what I was referring to. Nobody is disputing the fact that it can scare horses, however, when most of your enemies aren't gonna be riding horses, it's a moot point.
>>1023533>Effective range increases to embed lead shot into wall from 8 meters. Point still stands.
>>1023462Also, cavalry didn't dissappear in Europe until after WW1 you moron.
>>1023541>when most of your enemies aren't gonna be riding horses>laughingmongols.jpg>>1023546>implying it need as much killing power as embeding into wood to trip a horse or scare it so hard it crash into the rest of the cavalryat 2.5 embed we get 10 meter max rangeassuming the proportion stay the same we'd have a range of around 30 meter which is cearly enough to get a shot in.>>1023558The decline of the armoured knight was probably linked to changing structures of armies and various economic factors, and not obsolescence due to new technologies. However, some historians attribute the demise of the knight to the invention of gunpowder, or to the English longbow. Some link the decline to both technologies. Others argue these technologies actually contributed to the development of knights: plate armour was first developed to resist early medieval crossbow bolts, and the full harness worn by the early 15th century developed to resist longbow arrows. From the 14th century on, most plate was made from hardened steel, which resisted early musket ammunition. In addition, stronger designs did not make plate heavier; a full harness of musket-proof plate from the 17th century weighed 70 pounds (32 kg), significantly less than 16th century tournament armour.The move to predominately infantry-based battles from 1300 to 1550 was linked to both improved infantry tactics and changes in weaponry. By the 16th century, the concept of a combined-arms professional army had spread throughout Europe. Professional armies emphasized training, and were paid via contracts, a change from the ransom and pillaging which reimbursed knights in the past. When coupled with the rising costs involved in outfitting and maintaining armour and horses, the traditional knightly classes began to abandon their profession. Light horses, or prickers, were still used for scouting and reconnaissance; they also provided a defensive screen for marching armies. Large teams of draught horses or oxen pulled the heavy early cannon. Other horses pulled wagons and carried supplies for the armies.>implying horse warfare didn't reduce HEAVILY post 1450
>>1023588Mongol invasion hasn't arrived yet.
>>1023599Not arrived =! never going to arrive
>>1023588Just because heavy cavalry didn't absolutely wreck anything in sight anymore, that doesn't mean that cavalry became obsolete. They remained as a powerful force in the battlefield and were brought to battle all the time. >using wikipedia as a sourceshame on you
>>1023604Like 100 years from now or something.
I need to watch some rwby (just discovered it yesterday) but will try to update a bit later.>>1023397not sure, but something a bit bigger than musket rounds.>>1023427>not putting a bunch of time and effort into a single shot assassination weapon or one for samurai to use to take down better samurai in duels.>>1023512at the moment it functionally is like that. Hopefully we can improve upon it fast enough>>1023676yeah, horses were used to great effect up to WW1. The biggest failure in modernity was the Charge of the Light Brigade.>>1023705Mongols only take a decade or two to fuck the Jin sideways, then it takes them till Kublai Khan to take out the capital of the Song Dynasty.
Actually I just realized I could just let you guys vote on our next week.---What Two things do I focus on?What Three things do I order my workers to do?
>>1026105>Improve Reliability>Improve Accuracy>Produce Parts x 3
>>1026105Improve ammunition Improve power (IE fiddle with varying calibers and powder charge)Workers teach themselves 2x
>>1026130>>1026133Changing my vote to this
>>1026105For us:>Improve amunition>Improve Recoil (make stock more ergonomic)For the Workers:>Teach themselves X2>Make parts
Just as a comment i'd like to remind you guys that we have two weeks left to produce the first batch if we want to look good and useful for the administrators so at least incoporate some amount of part making like >>1026151also we might actually change the turn of the war slightly if we push a early first batch whilst also getting increased funding.Meaning we might get to hire more People and get a permanent production team .
Improve ammunition Improve power (IE fiddle with varying calibers and powder charge)Workers teach themselves 2xMake partsRoll
Rolled 49, 95, 74, 88, 9 = 315 (5d100)>>1026230
Rolled 34, 76, 53, 90, 11 = 264 (5d100)>>1026230
Rolled 56 (1d100)>>1026230rollin
>>1026235>>1026236>>102624256,95,74,90,11Okay so what is improved about ammunition, what is fiddled with in power, anything specific that workers should train in? Parts is of course just parts.
>>1026279With larger heavier bullets it will retain more energy in flight than lighter bullets and increase in powder charge increase power.Workers should train in making parts of the gun consistent as possible with minimal if not no variations in between parts so any and all parts could fit together thereby increasing the rate which firearms could be repaired
>>1026279For ammunition, I say we improve the quality of the powder charge.For power, I say we focus on shaping the shot so it can hit harder. More of a slug like shape.Also the workers should train in part uniformity. It'd make the weapons easier to repair and maintain.
Larger bullets, larger powder amounts. Stronger gun. More death mwahahaa. Slower muzzle velocity though. Still, it's gonna hurt someone in armour. Massive bruising probably.I changed the lead shot mold to be more pointed, so that it would fly through the air faster and be 'sharper' and cooler looking.The workers focused on consistency and uniformity. The lack of time to drastically improve the first military model meant that adaptability wasn't the focus.Pumping out as much good quality Qua 1.1s (what our third month gun model will be called for now) to allow an immediate formation of handgunners was the target.And so the workers made parts. But only made enough for 11 people. The guns were identical and fairly robust.Only 3 weeks left till the deadline. ---I have work same hours for the next 3 days then I have a bunch of days off. So I will do an update or two each day until I have those days off.:)
>>1026369Thanks as always for running dawg. The Qua model will reign supreme.
>>1026369Great will wait for this bomb ass quest
Idea on how to promote the widespread use of gunsNow, many of the people we'll be shooting will be poor conscripts with little armor. The problem we'll have with them, once we fix the lethality problem, will be ranged weapons like bows and javelinsNow, to get the most out of our guns, we'll need massed ranks. I think two ranks would be the best. Place heavy duty shields in front of the front rank, which would be kneeling, with small cut outs for them to fire through. Second rank fires over the top of the shield wall. Now, to stop arrows, we can set up easy, basic bamboo roofs. Biggest problem with this is the lack of mobility, but would be effective if we are defending a town or can pick the battlefield
>>1027258>Not using battle wagons
>>1027283i love them, but they are less space efficient. You can only fit a couple of guys in them, mostly because they're not designed to protect the most gunmen. They're really good for setting up temporary defenses in the field
>>1027258You're gonna have hard time convincing them on actually buying a massive amount of them until they've actually proven their worth on the field though. Should the military like your guns and figure out a good use for them, they will commission more and potentially have you develope a firearm fitting their doctrine the best.
>>1027309that pic made me feel things
Still, I don't think that there should be an issue with our weapon getting more comissions. Using it as an assault weapon in sieges wouldn't be at all bad idea, seeing that in there range is less of an issue all things considered and you don't even need that many. Say you got your guys on enemy walls. Now imagine if you got couple of blokes with handgonnes on the back and shields guys at the front. Any time there's a clog in the advance, break out the handgonnes and blast through. It is after all, moderately effective against armored targets too.Breech loading and cartridges really ought to help in that role.
>>1027469its a cool helmet designI've never seen any surviving examples of one, or reconstructions though. When I get the time, I might make a simple one to test it's visibility.
>>1027496I can't imagine it'd have very good visibility, but I like it anyways. Also, any idea what that pikeman pic is from. Shit looks interesting.
>>1027521I got it from a LARP thread either or /tg/ or /cgl/no idea about the actual location though, sorry
>>1027573*on either /tg/ or /cgl/
work was fucking awful today lol. mfw people try to pretend that they asked for 15$ when they said 50$ twice after I repeated it back to them.
>>1028337what you work at a convenience store or something?
>>1028341fuel station. The work would be quite pleasant and easy if it weren't for 1/30 customers trying to assassinate my job.
>>1028347I feel you on the customers man. I used to work retail, could never figure out why some of them feel so fucking entitled and act like they did. It was always regular customers too.
>>1028350Regular customers are fine in my case, as they don't try to gaslight me. ----I used me third to last week till the deadline as best I could:I focused on (2):My orders for my workers were(3):---Latest Qua model is level 4 in everything and I think 5 in something and progressing in ammunition and range? (If someone wants to double check that would be great).Bigger round version has 130m/s, while normal round version has 160m/s muzzle velocity.---
>>1028363>I focused on (2):>Improving Accuracy>Improving Range>My orders for my workers were(3):>Make Parts X2>Teach themselves
>>1028363Focus on >Stronger metalsTo hold more powder in the gun without making it explode in your face>ErgonomicsThe comfort of a buttstock will be essential for repeated accurate firings Workers improve on What this guy says >>1028365
>>1028378fuck it, this guy's idea would work.
Okay. Stronger metals, and ergonomics for us personally.Our workers do 2x making parts and 1x teach themselvesRoll
Rolled 77, 82, 32, 30, 64 = 285 (5d100)>>1028392rollin
Rolled 16, 3, 3, 38, 97 = 157 (5d100)>>1028392
Rolled 23, 96, 36, 34, 38 = 227 (5d100)>>1028392
will update after dinner
77, 96,36,38,97.The final touches to the debut handgun would be improving the metal. By being more vigilant and meticulous about the purity and content of the alloys, the gun chassis was made stronger.Next, for the weapon to be comfortable to fire more than once or twice, there would need to be a comfortable way of holding and firing it. So I added a wooden stock that was smooth to brace against the user's shoulder to reduce recoil bruising and help with accuracy.My workers made a bunch of parts, about 15 guns.Their teaching themselves went quite well, they are now able to adjust their making of parts more on the fly provided the design is there.---
I was a little disappointed that the parts were not the best quality that I had seen, but the veterans test firing them didn't experience any major issues. The new wood stock helped a fair bit though would need refining.All evidence pointed towards meeting the demands of the Administrator successfully....Reports of conflict with the Jin sounded neutral at best. Some raids and clashes had Song winning, others had our border towns getting heavily damaged. Hopefully nothing would change too significantly before I managed to produce enough firearms to turn the tides.With two weeks remaining, I decided to dedication those two weeks:(4)Me personally:(6)my workers were ordered too:Goodnight guys, have a happy BSJ.
>>1028505>Work on improving materials x2>Work on Improving workshop x2>Make parts x4>Work on Improving Recoil x2
>>1028505Thanks for running man.(4)Me personally:>Improve Reliability X2>Improve Ammunition X2(6)my workers were ordered too:>Make parts X3>Teach themselves X2>Design something
We should develope a proper firing mechanism in order to make these things into proper assault shotguns. I don't think we ever bothered making a matchlock mechanism.
Okay so we will be debuting in two weeks and if we want a fat paycheck, we are going to want to give them one hell of an unveiling. Remember, we've made a ton of progress since we made the Qua 1.001; let's make the gun look as good as it works. Let them know what genius looks like and give them a gun to fall in love with. (4)Me personally:>Improve ergonomics X2>Improve visual aesthetic X2Find an affordable, light colored wood and a red varnish for our wooden stocks. Red so that it stands out and is easily recognized by admiring nobles and terrified enemies alike. After being shaped, have the barrels soak in an acid bath that will blacken the metal lending it an even, black color. Let an even greater gun inherit my name; for this one, let's name it the "Song 1" heavy handcannon, emblazoning "宋一" into the side of every stock with a branding iron. (6)my workers were ordered too:>Make parts X5>Apply the aesthetic changes to all the copies we are planning to hand over
>>1028628This desu, let's try to create an early matchlock mechanism, were instead of holding a smoldering rope to a touch hole we have a simple serpentine lever that can hold the rope and properly guide it into the touch hole.
I wonder how long it's gonna be till we can start experimenting with grape shot and get our guys some proto-scatterguns.
>>1029392desu it's not worth it right now due to the fact that we simply don't have enough kinetic energy yet to make use of small projectiles.Also we'd require a lot more work to do those in a way.There's grapeshot and then there's shotgun shells level of small projectile.Grape shot is useful to hit lots of clustered shit IF you have the power to already easily kill people with the canons. As is we're still struggling to reliably kill a man with one at about 10 meter of distance, grapeshot would just be a glorified loud sling.Maybe later one when we start getting some actual form format change and start getting longer range,higher power cannons.
>>1029408I get it. We need actual gats before scattergat.I'm just trying to figure out how somebody would make a shotgun shell type cartridge in the 13th century.Keeps me thinking.
>>1029418well we got paper ammo so we could make shells.the main problem is they're not as good as actual ammo.The thing is the slower the projectile go the more damage it does.Current rifles have very fast projectile and do damage by pure kinetic energy.But if you take handguns,slower is deadlier;now we won't do much armor piercing but there's a sweet spot that we're not even able to reach with a normal projectile and for us to reach it and do maximal damage we'd need huge amount of research for essentially a powerful glorified pipe-shotgun that would likely do less damage to anybody with armor than a canon ball would do.Not that it would matter because canons are simply unable to match the precision of a bow or a crossbow at this era,let alone the deadliness.I think focusing on Anti-infantry gun is ridiculous right now, we should focus on Anti-cavalry through noise and then shift our focus to artillery and naval artillery who are way less competitive and way more accessible research and to us whilst also naturally leading to loads of profit
>>1029448You're right. Artillery is probably gonna let us do the most good in the war.I figure after we demonstrate being able to meet expectations with the Qua model, we might get a commission to start work on artillery pieces.Either that or we bring up artillery with the officials.
>>1029485while I agree that artillery is good at turning people into mush, I think we should try to do something like my pic, but more man portable. A three or four man team with one of these placed in the line with normal gunmen to bolster their long range effectivenessHave them be easy to disassemble and reassemble and simple enough that the uneducated peasants can do it with some basic training
>>1029992also, I have no idea how feasible this is(probably not at all, reloading it would be a really long process) but it looks cool and I want it
>>1029485I say that a series of light, highly mobile close support artillery guns that can break enemy formations would be best.Ones capable of being carried and operated by two men would be best.
>>1029992Just throwing this out thereHow about we first design a sort of light cannon with good penetrating power, one that'll go through like at least a couple of dudes before it stops. Then we design a custom mount for them where if you need to concentrate that much firepower, you can actually get a rig for them which allows you to mount multiple light cannons, aim them and then just fire them on sequence or individually if they want to. Once you're done with your huge stack of cannons, you can just pick them off the mount and return them back to their usual configuration.This way, you'll have a volley gun when you need it and bunch of regular light cannons when you don't and let's face it, rich bastards aren't gonna let their rivals have more cannons on their rig than they do.
>>1030075Basically something like this. Keep the cannons light enough that you can yank them from the wooden frame once you're done and set them on seperate mounts like as puckle guns or something. This way, you'll have a lot of flexibility on where you put your firepower and you don't need to constantly carry around this big hulking thing.
>>1030296>puckle gunsSwivel guns I meant.
>>1030296what program are you using to make these anon?
I don't think we're going to be able to produce simple/reliable small arms that can be produced/wielded in enough mass to be truly effective.Artillery is a different matter though. We can, with one team working under careful direction, construct a big honkin' seige gun. It doesn't need to be fancy, and it doesn't require training masses of troops to use a new weapon. Just 20-30 specialists to move and operate the beast, and design a monster that just throws boulders and doesn't explode when lit.The army command won't need to learn new tactics and the infantry masses won't need to re-learn how to fight. Just park some of these puppies outside of conventional seiges and turn the enemy into paste.
>>1030430now, I agree, but would like to offer an alternativemake a siege gunthen use it as a shotgun
>>1030479Eh not as effective as you might think.Don't get me wrong, the guys in front of the barrel are going to disappear in a fine red mist. But you're only going to get one shot, and having a gun that size so close to the enemy army is asking them to try and capture it. It would be better to over-powder the gun as the enemy cavalry rides up, setting a fuse, and FUCKING RUN FOR IT.Once we have working guns turning masonry into gravel it'll be a lot easier to introduce other ideas. How about 'gun-chariots'? Smaller, lighter peices mounted on carriages pulled by fast horses that roll up to the enemy, fire canister shot, run away, re-load, and repeat.Or use solid shot instead of canister, and now you have a fast-moving light artillery force that can quickly move around the battlefield, allowing the commander to deploy them at critical moments and then recall and deploy again at another location.
>>1030611problem we have with siege weapons is our current employer. They're the defenders in almost all the battles, and aren't gonna be sieging anyone any time soon.Now, giant wall mounted shotguns seem like pretty effective deterrents to storming the battlements. This would force them to make their own siege weapons, which we can then attack with artillery
>>1030681For wall defense conventional bows, crossbows, boiling water/oil and fire pots are fine for close-up work. Our guns are primitive and the reload times mean we want to sart shooting from as far a distance as possible to get maximum utility.For wall guns I would think longer barrels, like serpentines, and a focus on range over pure power. It would force the enemy seige line farther away from the walls to avoid their tents being bombarded, thus increasing the perimiter. They would need to dedicate more troops to the seige or risk the defenders being able to run the blockade.And as you said any approaching ram or tower would be reduced to splinters, and if we can develop cannon with greater range than trebuchets and catapults the beseigers will have to rely more on attrition and starvation which takes time and reasources.
>>1028505(my voting update)>>1028514This got two votes>>1028628this has two votes ---Does anyone wanna tiebreak?gonna be playing a fuckload of Nova Aetas Mount and Blade mod
>>1030873I'll vote this >>1028628
>>1030873I'll second the second >>1028628though not really behind having them as assault weapons, they seem more suited for defense, at least as the moment. We'll need to get the killing power up before we can have them on the front lines>>1030781the Chinese were always kinda crazy when it came to sieges. I think some heavy duty shotguns the size of a 2 pounder, that could be hooked over the wall and use a hook to handle the recoil would be great at defending gates and any other parts of the wall. If some people come at us with ladders, blow away half the men carrying them, and you have one less place you have to commit troops toI don't have many old gun pics, but lots of weird armors. Definitely need to stock up
>Develop a proper firing mechanism in order to make these things into proper assault shotguns. All actions on this. So 10d100 :D
Rolled 47, 7, 50, 70, 55, 33, 22, 95, 9, 59 = 447 (10d100)>>1031838here goes nothing
Rolled 72, 32, 86, 86, 36, 28, 43, 88, 51, 79 = 601 (10d100)>>1031838
Rolled 67, 79, 12, 100, 74, 21, 7, 64, 59, 9 = 492 (10d100)>>1031838
Rolled 3, 49, 8, 54, 70, 93, 40, 73, 97, 11 = 498 (10d100)>>1031838
>>1031838:DDDJIN HOLOCAUST NOW
Rolled 70, 50, 40, 63, 2, 15, 26, 41, 35, 50 = 392 (10d100)>>1032162
INB4 we just cram 10 arrows with gunpowder rocket propulsion inside the handgonne and call it the first shotgun ever.
>>1031910>>1032009>>1032125>>103216372,79,86,100,74,93,40,73,97,50=754progress points.[i]With two weeks left, I spent all my efforts on developing a proper firing mechanism that would revolutionise the ease and speed of firing. I also ordered my workers to do the same thing.It was a huge success. By having a hammer hitting a piece of metal that makes a spark, the propellant in the ammunition was lit up, and firing was almost immediate. By replacing pretty much everything in the firing mechanism with this hammer method the guns reliability also increased, and reloading too.[b]Firing mechanism level 4 with 64/300 to level 5. Ease of firing and reload speed improve, as does reliability[/b][/i]Okay my long break starts tomorrow. I will be announcing a 4 hour period of dedication to the quest each day followed by vidya.Have a happy bsj everyoneGonna have the whole Administrator visiting along with some troops to test the latest model and decide if we succeeded (we certainly did :D)Gonna trawl through the thread after work and post the models we have.Also here is a Meel
>>1032479Wouldn't the last one be 79 from here>>1032009
Also just as a general idea we should get a Potassium nitrate mine for ourselves for multiple reason which i'll give.1.It's needed to produce our own gunpowder2.It's a Fertilizer and since Song are pretty pro agriculture and give out new marshland in hope people will cultivate it, selling fertilizer would make us money and help them out3.Having a quarry/mine will increase our overall size and will also maybe give us future access to future industries like mining and later on metallurgy.
oh damn. My cookies got messed up. My ID has changed. Oh well, it shouldn't be too bad without being able to do italics and stuff.
>>1032479Make sure we've got the grill ready, some extra targets to shoot at and plenty of bullets. It's gonna be a pork ribs and target practice at Long Qua's place.
>>1032927And we've got to clean up the place!
Rolled 100 (1d100)
>>1035315The shop is now in immaculate condition, inbreeding has been removed from our peasant workers and indoor plumbing has been installed.
>>1035331Also the interior decorating has been done in a tasteful, yet practical manner.
>>1035367We also have little umbrellas for all the drinks now.
Here's an update on the gun