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    302 KB Yet another "Praetor game" thread Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)14:24 No.6567054  
    Sup /tg/? Been a while since we had the last one. I am sorry to report that I was busy with a job for practically the whole October, but put down the pitchforks because I come with updates.

    Since the game used to look monotonous and fugly, I have started adding multiple star types. Is there any type of galactic landmarks you always felt was missing from space games? Currently we have binary stars, protostars, dwarfs and regular stars. Nebulae, neutron stars, Cepheid variables and black holes are in the pipeline.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:25 No.6567064
    Not /tg/, gtfo
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:27 No.6567090
    No wormholes?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:28 No.6567104
    Hang on, is this your thing where you're making a 4X game?

    I approve.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:32 No.6567132

    Worst troll ever. What this guy is doing is pretty kickass, and with it being a 4x game is better being discussed on this board than the Fallout 3 lovin' vidya shit hole.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:33 No.6567138
    The majority of star systems are binary stars, so seeing how a planetary system works with that would be nice, and also periodic meteor showers and the occasional asteroid and other potential space disasters.
    >> ':3 !L4ityhwMgA 11/04/09(Wed)14:34 No.6567150
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    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)14:34 No.6567153
    Also I think I have solved the planet-population-infrastructure conundrum and would like to hear your input on this. There are three major "levels" tracked in every system: infrastructure, technology, and military (ITM). These come in levels and progress slowly based on a LOT of factors. Different systems are likely to have radically different speeds of progress so border worlds might end up with 3 IS 2 Tech 10 Mil while an industrial/trade hub might be 8 IS 4 Tech 2Mil, for example. Higher levels are needed for access to advanced projects, units etc.

    Population is also tracked in levels and population level influences the speed of ITM progress. Also, if a system is underpopulated (after a plague or something) ITM levels become penalized and start deteriorating instead of progressing.

    Infrastructure is used for calculating industrial capacity, resource extraction/processing, and terraforming. Tech is used for advanced projects, stuff like curing plagues, and of course empire-wide research rate (although the way tech tree will work is probably a little different than you're used to).Military level is used for calculating the size of militia/standing army, rate at which doctrines are researched, planetary defenses you can support, and add to the overall fleet/troop logistics.

    Races now have planetary preferences. Key variable is hostility. The higher the hostility, the less popcap of a planet. Tougher races can stomach more hostility but there is a cap for everyone. Terraforming reduces hostility (level by level) and, based on planet type, can even make hostility go in the negatives (when it's called "adaptation level"). Adapted worlds can support billions of people, but beware any event that increases hostility and reduces adaptation (such as meteor drops, orbit shifts, radiation dust warfare etc) because sudden pop caps mean deaths of a LOT of people daily.

    Well helo there Mr Troll. Do make yourself at home.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:34 No.6567158
    So I take it when you say nebulae we will get some Supernova remnants and Dark nebula thrown into the mix.
    Did you ever do any more work on the cosmic horrors?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:35 No.6567172
    I was wondering where you went, good to know you didn't drop the project.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:36 No.6567198

    You have my interest good sir.

    Any of your past things up on suptg?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:37 No.6567205
    Nova and supernova, especially if you could weaponize them.

    Is this game intergalactic? Quasars would be pretty fucking sweet.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:38 No.6567217
    Sounds awesome to me, and opens up a lot of interplanetary trading. A planet with high Military but low Tech would offer mercenaries to a high-tech world in exchange for higher tech.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:38 No.6567225
    How about Brown Stars, not a whole lot of those since they're just suns that didn't get the fusion thing going or something. And then there's Pulsars, meteor showers would always be nice too.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:39 No.6567238
    Is there humans in this game, please do tell me there is.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:40 No.6567245
    Of course, and plenty of xenos to fight.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:45 No.6567325
    I'm still for my awesome idea of sentient planets that spread sentience though hot planet-on-planet fucking.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)14:46 No.6567344
    Hmm, so you can do anything you want in this game?
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)14:48 No.6567362
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    Did I forget to mention fleet combat is in?

    Unfortunately it's a basic strategic battle resolver and all rolls are hidden from the player for now so you basically just look at the numbers dwindling, but it's a start. On the left here you can see the two fleets from the above screenshot after they intercepted and are now locked in exciting number-countdown combat.

    Planets of binary stars will probably have "climactic fluctuations" trait. Races originating from a binary star system might have a preference towards S-type or P-type orbits, or get penalties for single-star systems. Keep in mind you will probably not see an accurate star system simulation, just a list of planets with their types and traits, all based on the stars they orbit.

    In addition to planets, there are other crap in any given star system (asteroids, gas clouds, comets, Oort clouds, Kuiper belts) which I intend to make exploitable in-game. Probably every star will have an "asteroids" counter ( or "small moons" counter or "transneptunian-like bodies" counter etc. ) which will have impact on economy of the system and tactics of fleet combat taking place in the system. So even a system without any planets might be well worth having an outpost on.
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)15:03 No.6567561
    Humans are the dominant species in this galaxy section. They see most aliens as barbarians, put them in enclaves and make them mercenaries.


    Much as I would like to put in quasars, the scale of the game is too small for that. One game is one sector, a "sector" being an island of space where FTL travel is possible ( explained away in the fluff). That way I avoid insulting the players' intelligence by claiming 100-odd stars are a "galaxy". I'll also use this to implement off-sector reinforcements and nomads/refugees/conquering races/space Mongols frequently jumping into a sector from sector entry points. Supernova-ing a star on purpose is planned, but then I did a bit of calculation and came to the conclusion that a supernova would be catastrophic in such a small scale sector, and I'm not talking about a "hey, we totally destroyed that star and it system, made a cool light show" catastrophic, I'm talking about "HOLY FUCK GET AWAY FROM THE SHOCKWAVE EVERY LIVING THING IN 300 LIGHT YEAR RADIUS WILL DIE OF GAMMA RADIATION PLASMA SHOWERS EVERYWHERE NEIGHBOURING STARS ERUPTING FFFFFFUUUUUU" catastrophic.

    Of course, now I described it that way I simply have to implement it.

    are all I know of.

    Brown dwarves most likely as a planet class, not independent stars. Pulsars are not a problem really since they would be a neutron star with a few wobble effects added in and a massive radiation field.

    Who am I to defy the age old conventions of the genre? Nebulae are planned to be used for hiding, set up with harvesting stations, and a certain type of star drive will make you move through nebulae faster.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)15:16 No.6567747

    Thanks for the archive links. Checking 'em now.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)15:23 No.6567861

    Of course supernovae are horrifyingly powerful. That's what makes whoever uses them such filthy bastards.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)15:38 No.6568015
    Not the stupid world side ones, the remains of massive space stations, worlds and space battles that have been left after either they dropped communication with ther empire or were lost.
    Maybe some even belong to you, or used to, others only time knows who owned them.
    Give random bonuses and penalties going from things like tame zombie weapons and biometal ships to the much nastier emergence of ancient Omnimalevolent A.I.s or mutants.
    Maybe superblack holes, covering small star systems.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)15:38 No.6568025
    it's good if your trying to achieve a more overlord-like pov. Your job is to decide how many ships to send and where to send them, not dictating the strategy; that's the admiral's job.

    I know it's probably still far off on the to-do-list, but I would like you to put extra care into the races' designs/fluff. That's a huge make-or-break factor for me.
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)16:27 No.6568526
    You may rest assured that none of them will look like humanoid birds (or humanoid whatevers for that matter) . Aliens will be biologically and culturally vastly different from one another which will have real, in-game effects, not just flavour text ones. Also every alien species will have multiple factions with differing agendas. Just like humans. Species will range from symbiotic mind bacteria to nanobots gone rogue to gas giant dwellers. Be warned that a detailed graphical representation of all of them will likely be scarce as most of the game is icons and symbols. Maybe when I commission an artist for a sequel or something.

    I plan to have graveyards of ancient battles found at random over time, with salvageable equipment/tech. Also the sites of deep space battles will spawn graveyards of derelicts upon completion.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)16:30 No.6568566
    Will you be able to have a history view? Record where space battles were, what planets were attacked by whom recently, etcetera, on the map?

    Things like, "On Stardate 3.14159, Admiral Flaxbar's last stand, against an overwhelming force of Newton's Mistakes" or something like that?

    Not a necessity or anything, and it'd probably take a while, but as long as you're remembering battle sites...
    >> Another Generic Drawfag 11/04/09(Wed)16:33 No.6568598
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    Looking through the first thread, I noticed how it was mentioned that you'd like to have Emprah portraits that update over the course of the game?

    This idea intrigues me... at the very least I just had to sketch out how this might look.

    Pictured is Kronk the Really Really Hard to Assassinate in the first five months of his reign.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)16:53 No.6568797
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    Gar think King Praetor stupid.
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)17:10 No.6568969
    You sir, win an internet. To be honest, player's Emperor will never be fully assassinated ("Game Over" due to a bad roll would just mean a quickload), but either severely incapacitated or put in a coma for a while. So I expect a lot of Emprahs to go down the route of Kronk the Really Really Hard to Assassinate.

    Closest thing remotely possible for now is to have every star system get "history" string that updates when ever something eventful happens to it. I was considering this idea earlier but didn't know anyone would bother reading. A fortunate circumstance is that graveyards are tracked by the game as a special case of "star systems", so the same might be doable for them as well.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)17:21 No.6569101
    Are you preplanning the galaxy, or have it randomly generated every time some starts a 'new game'?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)17:26 No.6569146

    What can you tell me about tea?
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)17:29 No.6569184
    A random sector is created every time you start a new game. The fluff is that with each new game you are colonizing a new sector, so when starting a new game you "immigrate" into this sector with a meagre fleet. I'll consider allowing character persistence between games.

    As for the single player campaign, it will have a string of sectors one after another, these will probably be premade and scripted.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)17:32 No.6569218
    Holy shit, is this the /tg/ 4X game? Nice job OP.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)17:40 No.6569292
    Sounds wonderful OP. Fuck yeah.

    So you are basically a human noble sent by a giant galaxy spanning human empire (an imperium if you will) to colonise a new sector?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)17:46 No.6569357
    I'm curious, might there as a kind of a easter egg. As for example, you find one the the Voyager satellites?
    >> I apologized on 4chan 11/04/09(Wed)17:47 No.6569371

    I'll field this one, I'm British.

    Tea is a hot drink made by brewing tea leaves in boiling water. The drink originates from China, but British traders were so impressed by the drink that they converted large swathes of then British owned India to grow the plant, and it remains a major import of India to this day.

    There a many different blends of tea available, each with a subtly different taste. Some like Earl Grey for it's refined taste with a hint of citrus. Some prefer the robust Assam or the aromatic Chai and other actually like the commonly avaiable english blend, which I think tastes like wet cardboard.
    Personally I prefer Lapsang Suchong and it's smokey aroma and taste, which reminds me of a youth spent camping in the woods.

    Sugar and Milk are often added to the drink to taste, and are mixed in with a teaspoon (hence the name.) Whilst a Teacup and Saucer recreate the authentic "Englishman at rest" look, a good mug will work eaqually well.

    To dunk biscuits into the tea is also widely practiced, choose your biscuits well however. If you choose poorly your biscuit may collapse into the tea, thus leaving a horrible sludge in the bottom, that if left to dry, becomes not unlike concrete.

    There. Tea explained.
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)17:51 No.6569415
    That about sums it up. Your title is an Imperial Praetor, hence the name of the game.

    However, the empire that sent you is not galaxy-spanning. Human race started off as one empire, like 40k Imperium, but vast expansion, separatism, and communications lag led to the whole structure reaching a critical mass and splintering like a house of cards. Now practically the entire Orion galactic arm is a confederacy of several hundred states, empires, and republics.

    However, the Perseus arm is still largely unexplored, a "new frontier" of sorts, and that's where the game takes place.

    It doesn't help that most of the species persecuted by humans during the Orion Arm expansion a few millenia ago fled to the very same Perseus arm.
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)17:54 No.6569449
    Voyager will take a few million years to reach the nearest star. By the time the game takes place, it hasn't even reached the Oort cloud of the solar system.

    You might find some other ancient constructs and offshoots of early human race.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)17:55 No.6569453
    Fuck yeah. Well that sounds excellent. And strangely not too unlike a high-powered Rogue Trader game. This is excellent. I've just about gotten tired of MOO2 and I can't wait to try this one.

    My problem with MOO2, although I do love it, is that it feels like a game more than an empire builder. There's no feeling of immersion for me, or any feeling that I'm really advancing my society any.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)17:58 No.6569485
    Lapsang Suchong smells like a campfire and tastes like English Breakfast with charcoal thrown in.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)18:04 No.6569562
    Will there be stargates? Can I travel from planet to planet via them?

    Maybe you can make a race that prefers to travel from planet to planet via stargates, but has weaker ships to compensate?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)18:09 No.6569608

    That's a cool setting and now I want to play ittt. How long do you think until we get a playable release? Also, will it be Linux-friendly?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)18:10 No.6569613
    Actually, the majority of the smaller red dwarfs are systems with a single star, while more luminous stars are more often binary. Because the vast majority of stars are small, this all adds up to less than half of all stars being in binary systems.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)18:14 No.6569658
    get some of those, what are they called, magnetopulsars? they're monstrously magnetic, to the point where their magnetic field can very easily rip an organic being to shreds from a long distance (the induced magenetic field makes usually non-polar water VERY VERY VERY POLAR)
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)18:19 No.6569701
    Judging by previous experience, anything I say about a release date will be a blatant lie. I'd like to have an alpha ready by New year's. "Alpha" would mean minimum features, placeholder graphics, and dumb AI.

    Duly written down.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)18:26 No.6569776
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    Praetor, do you have an email address? You should think about setting one up just specific to this game. I hate to think that the only way for me to track this game is through an obscure anonymous image board thread.

    Also, the astrophysics major in me would love to see the star descriptions changed to indicate it's spectral class.

    So "blue star" into 'Spectral Class O star" or just "Class O Star"
    I'd also love to see a detailed description of the star, like when you hover the mouse over. Things like: age, luminosity, Metallicity -thus population type-, Galactic period, solar mass, temperature, Equatorial radius, sidereal rotation period, etc. etc.


    Triple stars, planetary nebulae.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)18:30 No.6569810
    >> Jluvial 11/04/09(Wed)18:31 No.6569818
    Hey man, long time, no see. Check your email lately? I'd like to get your opinion on the prelude and fugue so I can have a better idea of what else to write, as well as some more alien specific fluff.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)18:33 No.6569835
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    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)18:33 No.6569837
    Oh, uh, yeah. Hi.

    Uhm. This is kind of awkward but, well, I guess it needs to be said:

    You're not my kind of writer. Really, I don't know if you're ANYONE's kind of writer. It's just, you see, the thing you sent me? It's bad. Really bad. Really awful bad.

    Please stop writing to me. I think I'll be better off on my own.
    >> Praetor !GlgAJEGbr. 11/04/09(Wed)18:38 No.6569869
    Do not eat the troll bait. This was NOT me. I repeat. This was NOT me. Goddamnit /tg/ don't make me start using the tripcode.

    Sorry, I haven't checked the email for fucking ages, as I didn't work on the game for fucking ages either. My fault entirely. I'll write up something really soon.
    >> Jluvial 11/04/09(Wed)18:45 No.6569938
    Fuuuuck, I was worried there for a second. But yeah, take your time; I won't be able to read it until later cause I'm leaving in a few minutes.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)18:47 No.6569955
    Awww c'mon, that was funny.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)18:48 No.6569966
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    >> Praetor !GlgAJEGbr. 11/04/09(Wed)18:48 No.6569968
    > the astrophysics major in me
    >astrophysics major
    Holy fuck. If you ever want to cast some hard science onto the game, send me an email and I'll comply. I have a scientific education and intend to show it in the game, but I never studied astrophysics. I don't know much about stars apart from star sequences and I certainly don't know any equations.

    Beware, as >>6569818 will attest, week long pauses in replies are to be expected.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)18:52 No.6569997
    Space Debris.

    The hulks of warships from your last fleet battle should litter the space around that site for the rest of the game.

    I don't care if it's just a graphic of little gray blobs labelled "wreckage," but there ought to be something.

    Debris of planet-sized ships just disappearing after the explosion always pisses me off in games. Endor would have the meteor shower of the goddamn century after Return of the Jedi. If your little fighter doesn't get out of the way of that Texas-sized chunk of the Executor flying at it, fucker explodes.

    So, please. Debris.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)18:53 No.6570008
    >>cast some hard science onto the game,
    Please keep it light. It's fine to have lots of details of the stars and planets and so on but if you begin applying too much the places where you don't apply it will start to grate (e.g. you have full details of the makeup of each planet but you can still settle planets with no iron core and no magnetosphere even though horrible cosmic ray cancer time would occur).
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)18:54 No.6570018
    A lot of what you describe is present in Space Empires, by the way. Not star class or metallicity, but age and luminosity, if memory serves.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)18:58 No.6570048
    As a member of an inferrous world, I object to this characterization. It is patently untrue. Ever since the invention of the global EM agitator, life on inferrous worlds has been no more affected by cosmic radiation than on traditional iron-core planets. In fact, as the technology progresses, cosmic radiation fields will be less a problem there than on even the most iron-rich planets.

    Know the facts.
    >> Praetor !GlgAJEGbr. 11/04/09(Wed)19:05 No.6570131
    Of course, do not expect accurate star system modeling or anything like that. We are talking about a game where space wizards summon giant tentacles to invade neighbouring stars, and can teleport star systems over dozens of light years for a negligible energy investment, after all. But nodding to science here and there would really be welcome in a game such as this. Star properties is one thing, accurate representation of scale is another. For example, radiation shockwaves will expand at the speed of light. I'm trying to strike a healthy balance between science flavor, pulp action (ftl drives, teleports) and fun factor (simplified planet classification). Let's see if it fails horribly.

    An earlier version DID have a detailed planetary attribute system that tracked 20-odd variables, generated planets by simulating their evolution in a pseudoscientific manner, but that was just... unnecessary, and complicated things needlessly. This game will have planets divided into several types (rocky, volcanic, ice, gas dwarf, gas giant), some planets might have a few extra attributes or resources, but that's it.

    All I am saying, it's nice to acknowledge some things, even if it is only for the sake of flavour.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)19:14 No.6570255
    So something like Master of Orion in feel then? Sounds pretty awesome so far.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)19:27 No.6570415
    This is actually, possibly, one of meanest things I've ever seen done on 4chan outside of /b/. Telling a writer their writing sucks while pretending to be someone whom they have sent work too, but without actually having read their writing is cruel as fuck.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)19:37 No.6570536
    Could someone explain to me what this is about? Is this a game of some kind, or what? I've never seen it before, but it looks sweet.
    >> Praetor !GlgAJEGbr. 11/04/09(Wed)19:41 No.6570575
    I'm a fa/tg/uy, am making this game on my own spare time, and occasionaly go to /tg/ for suggestions, ideas, features they'd like to see implemented, etc. Previous threads are listed in this post: >>6567561 . Read those and you're up to speed as much as anyone here.

    And to think I thought a tripcode superfluous on /tg/.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)20:00 No.6570780
    If you want a semirealistic planetary classification system, here's a proposal.

    Terrestrial planets:
    Silicate planets, composed mostly of silicate rocks with an iron core and little water on the surface. In an ideal distance, they have liquid surface water ("Earth-like planet", "garden planet" or whatever). Further away from the star, the surface water is frozen ("cold desert planet", like Mars). Closer to the star, where it's too hot for liquid water to exist, you'll have "greenhouse planets" (Venus), and even closer, "hot desert planets" (Mercury) where the atmosphere has been boiled away. And right next to the star where the surface is hot enough to stay partially molten, you have "volcanic planets".
    Water planets, composed of about 50% water and 50% heavier elements. In a distance where liquid surface water may exist, they're "ocean planets" with no surface land and a 200km+ worldwide ocean (Gliese 581d is one possible example). Further away, they're "ice planets" (like most of the larger moons of Saturn and Jupiter) with a subsurface ocean or thoroughly frozen if cold enough. Close to the star, they "steam planets" or "sauna planets" with an atmosphere composed mostly of water vapour (I shit you not, these things have been hypothesized).
    As you can see, every important planet class is covered this way. If you want more exotic terrestrial planets, add carbon planets (with a global layer of diamond kilometers thick) and iron planets composed of heavy metals.

    Gas giants:
    You could divide giants into "gas giants" (Jupiter, Saturn) and cold, bluish "ice giants" (Neptune, Uranus) and then use the Sudarsky gas giant classification for added realism, which gives the possibility of SPACE WHALES FLYING IN CLOUDS OF IRON. Fuck yeah!

    Oh, and don't forget asteroid belts.
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)20:32 No.6571150
    Anon, you are a God among men.

    The Sudarsky classification is PRECISELY the thing I need to make distinctions between gas giants so as to distribute hostility values for gas-dwellers.

    I am counting some 4 "rocky" planet types, 3 water planet types, and 5 gas giant types. That's not counting exotic planets or subplanetary objects. This should make for diverse star systems. If things turn out too diverse, I might compress a few types into a single one (greenhouse and vapour, for example) from the game standpoint, and I hope the gods of science don't look down on it.

    I am not sure how to implement asteroid belts except in the form of "subplanetary material". I understand every star is speculated to have its fair share of little rocks floating around, some more, some less. I'll need to formulate this sooner or later because one of the species originated in the rings of a gas giant and is a ring-dweller.

    I am intuitively thinking of asteroids as something harvestable, and a rich source of material; but how accurate is this? I am given to understand most of the really precious materials (i.e. heavier elements) are locked near the star, probably in Mercury-like planets. That's why water planets will usually be more distant than rocky planets in a given system, right?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)20:33 No.6571161
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    Damn, I almost missed this thread. Bump.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)20:59 No.6571413
    You would be right about that.
    Heavier elements condense closer to a star than light ones (water, ammonia etc). Asteroid belts formed close to the sun generally have heavier elements (metals, carbon) while those further away have lighter ones. Also, stars with a high metallicity have planets and asteroid with more heavy elements.
    According to current models, a division can be made during the formation of a star system. It's called the "frost line"; in the primordial Sun's case, it was in a distance of about 3.5 AU. If the current theory is correct, no gas giant can form closer than the frost line, and terrestrial planets formed in this region have all their possible water because of H2O-rich asteroids (they're the "silicate planets" and the more exotics ones). Further away than the frost line, both gas giants and water-rich planets can form. Most of the water planets would therefore be found in a distance where at least the surface is frozen.
    Now, before any exoplanets were found, scientists thought all other star systems were like our own: terrestrial planets within the frost line, giant outside. But then Hot Jupiters were found in a place where they weren't supposed to be, and star system formation hypotheses had to be reconcidered. Many computer simulations show that gas giants *can* migrate through the star system into a close orbit (just a few days long in some extreme cases), and that water planets may follow them closer to the star. Planetary migration also disturbs the orbits of small planets far less than thought.
    So, as a rule of thumb, I'd say that water planets and gas giants are usually found beyond the distance of the frost line (let's say 3x the distance where liquid water is possible). But in some cases, especially if a Hot Jupiter has migrated to a close orbit, smaller gas giants like Uranus and water planets can be found close to the star.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)21:10 No.6571533
    Oh, and
    >If things turn out too diverse, I might compress a few types into a single one (greenhouse and vapour, for example)
    That's a good call, steam worlds would have a considerable greenhouse effect. (Conversely, this would make it impossible to differentiate between dry Venus-like planets and planets with a lot of water, but that's not a big deal.)

    You might also want to give planets with a small mass (like Mars and Mercury) less impressive atmospheres, and more massive ones (Super-Earths) a greater chance of having a heavy atmosphere.
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)21:26 No.6571745
    It is possible the game will still tell the difference, but sentient races will have the same amount of hostility towards both and see the same textures.

    I am thinking about abstracting away atmosphere completely into the hostility model. All atmospheres are considered hostile to all species initially, because every planet with an atmosphere probably has a sufficient level of uniqueness in its macro and microelements to warrant hostility. So this is part and parcel of the initial hostility every species gets towards every planet type.

    But then, terraforming bestows an "adaptation:[species]" attribute to a planet, which we can presume also involves adapting the atmosphere, thus reducing the hostility.

    Like I said, initial versions had a detailed pressure/gravity/atmospheric composition/planetary composition distinction, with different techs bestowing different terraforming capabilities, but then I remembered this is a strategy game. Considering we are looking at 200-star sectors, most of which will have ~2d10 planets, it would become a real micromanagement nightmare. I decided to avoid this, divide planets into easily accessible classes, and automate terraforming via diverting a percentage of infrastructure rating.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)21:29 No.6571780
    That's a solution that simply and elegantly simulates different biochemistries and atmosphere compositions. I applaud you for your ingenuity.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)21:39 No.6571896
    A minor quibble about the interface here - having the type of star constantly shown on screen seems like unnecessary clutter - you should either make similar types of stars look the same, or add a tiny icon below them that shows what they are (which would expand into text on mouse-over).
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)21:41 No.6571917
    >diverting a percentage of infrastructure rating.
    Awesome, that sounds like MoO1's sliders. I always missed that level of simplicity in later 4x games.
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)22:13 No.6572277
    Don't worry, that's just there because I'm testing the galaxy generator. Mouse-overs and popups on demand are, in fact, going to be the predominant interface style.

    Why thank you. I feel it works well, because a planet with a similar class to a race's homeworld has lower initial hostility than, say, ice desert planets, which makes terraforming much cheaper and faster - this emulates that even though the atmosphere is different the similarities in temperature and gravity make colonizing it much easier. It's the difference between all your colonists having to live underground and wearing a full astronaut suit, and them living in tents and wearing goggles and oxygen mask.

    To complete the model, there are certain attributes attached to certain planets. I am experimenting with such attributes as "irradiated", "excentric orbit", "hurricane winds", "violent tectonics", "thick clouds", "tidal forces" etc. Even high/low gravity is handled as an attribute. Most of these attributes increase hostility (some dramatically) but have other gameplay effects (hurricane winds increase energy output, star proximity gives tech bonuses, resource rich grants infrastructure development bonus, thick clouds dramatically reduce bombardment effectiveness).

    You may also have races with affinities towards certain attributes, so Radioactive Aliens prefer irradiated worlds and treat non-irradiated ones at +2 hostility.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)22:20 No.6572344
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    >Radioactive Aliens
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)22:37 No.6572564
    Well, I'm not one to argue with the spambot. Going to bed now, will create another thread when I encounter the next conundrum.

    If anyone needs more info about the game and fears he'll miss an update there's always www.twitter.com/praetor_game. In the near future I'll consider getting some web hosting so I can have an official update site and game-related e-mail address. Thanks everyone for the stimulating discussion and I hope to crank out an alpha as soon as possible.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)22:39 No.6572589
    What programming language are you using? Perhaps I could help with coding or something...
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)22:53 No.6572780
    c++ (with DirectX 9), and I wouldn't wish my code upon any man alive. Now, I have no problem with people participating, you know. But coding is one thing where I don't really need help, for now.

    Got anything specific in mind?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)22:59 No.6572861
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    Well, between me being a Java coder, you needing no help with programming to begin with, and me having no artistic or musical talent, I'm afraid there's nothing I could do that'd be useful.
    Well, I wish you well with the project, anyway.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)23:02 No.6572904
    I just got here, so some comments on stuff from earlier in the thread:

    >(although the way tech tree will work is probably a little different than you're used to)

    >Be warned that a detailed graphical representation of all of them will likely be scarce as most of the game is icons and symbols. Maybe when I commission an artist for a sequel or something.
    You could try asking for drawfags on /tg/ or other places to contribute. Just say upfront that their is no money involved, but people will get their names in credits. People will do it.

    >I'll consider allowing character persistence between games.
    I'd really like that, but be aware that if you go that route, you'll need to put considerable effort into making character changes continue to be possible after long periods of time. The easiest way would be to allow certain things to change back to how they once were, the best way would require a fuckton of unique possible changes.

    Sorry to catch you on your way to bed.
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)23:05 No.6572952
    I am grateful regardless, if nothing then just for the enthusiasm. Thanks for the encouragement. You'll contribute enough by playing the alpha when it's done and providing feedback if you should feel so inclined. I find that coders make excellent testers.
    >> Praetor 11/04/09(Wed)23:17 No.6573108
    Regarding the tech tree. You don't get to say "I want to research this and that". You don't get to allocate "research points", although the imperial policies will set priorities to certain skills. See, the "tech tree" is really more of a "skill tree", with skills that increase based on your tech infrastructure and things that happen in-game. For example, spending more on terraforming increases your Planetology Skill. Traveling a lot increases the Physics skill. Being subjected to biological warfare, or harvesting alien civilians for lab dissections increases your Biotech skill. Negotiating alliances increases Diplomacy skill. All this is in addition to regular, but relatively meagre, tech-infrastructure based progress these skills have. You may also perform projects and experiments to get boosts in certain areas, such as destabilizing a star's fusion process or drilling down a planet's core, etc.

    >You could try asking for drawfags on /tg/ or other places to contribute
    Why not? The game is currently not in a stage where that would be advisable, though. Plenty of time for polish.

    As for character persistence, it's just a thought for now. You could make a character and then play multiple games with him, accumulating experience, traits and rep until he finally succumbs to old age. I didn't only have character traits in mind, but also, for example, your Imperial harem (/tg/ was very insistent on that one since day one of the project), implants, combat gear, etc.

    But now I am really hitting the sack.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)23:35 No.6573327
    Well, that sounds awesome, if tough to balance. Polite sage for thread being done.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/09(Wed)23:56 No.6573523

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