What political parties would exist in a democratic dwarven nation?
Assuming that they used to live in the stereotypical clan structure of most fantasy dwarves, then the parties might just be the clans reorganized as to not give up their power. It would be a cover of democracy, but really just a oligarchy under another name.But, if this didn't happen than yeah, probably what >>58971946 said
Parties? It’d be individuals by nature. Campaigning would be way more literal. Five or six shorties who get drafted go on an excursion together, with a little squire trailing behind. While the candidates tear ass through the countryside, the squire sends home letters of the crazy shit he watches them do, and the dwarves vote on the biggest badass while they wait. By the time the candidates arrive back, arm in arm as brothers from all the shit they’ve slain, their people have decided who will lead.
>>58971906Get Our Women To Shave Their Gross Beards party, fiercely opposed by the Fuck You That's My Fetish party.
The More Mining Party, the More Smithing Party, the More Brewing Party, the More Writing Grudges Party, the More Killing Monsters Party, and the Our Current Ratio on All Activities is Just Right Party
>>58972794I like this.
There's the Delvers, who have the Miners' Guild as their main constitency and are generally isolationists. Expansionists are divided between the Long Road Party, who favor peaceful interactions, farming, and cooperation with the humans, and the Firehearts, who are all redhairred warhawks who think every gold coin not spent on killing ogres, orcs, and elves is a sin against the Allfather, and would probably beggar the whole kingdom if it meant wiping the Book of Grudges clean.
>>58971906The Digger Party.WE NEED TO GO DEEPER. The surface is full of madmen and cretins, the earth provides all! Collapse the tunnels! Abandon the cities! KEEP GOING DOWN. FREEDOM IS BENEATH OUR FEET.
clearly industry is going to rule. Either labor wins out and you get a form of syndicalism, or mgmt wins and you get oligarchy-capitalism
>>58972845So if the More Mining Party comes into power, does the Our Current Ratio on All Activities is Just Right Party become the Less Mining Party or does it stay the Status Quo Party?
>>58973086>the Book of Grudgesthe fantasy equivalent of /tg/
>>58971906A grower's faction and a miner's faction, as well as a merchants/artisans' faction.
>>58971906Just the Worker's Party.
>>58971906>democratic dwarven nationwhat is this
>>58974190>no bankers' faction
>>58971906There're the people who think that nothing should change, and then there're the people who think that things need to go back to the way they were in the past.All progress in this society is incidental.
>>58971906The Mountain party>advocates vertical expansion, digging and opening new tunnels and halls>mildly isolationist, believes they should be open to trade to sell their rich ore but stay politically neutral>"The earth is our past and our future!">mostly miners and buildersThe Gold party>believes trade is more important than expansion>advocates exploration and establishment of new trade routes and diplomatic relations, even alliances>“If gold rusts, what then can iron do?”>mostly merchants and craftsmenThe Book party>militaristic>wants to retake the ancient halls of their ancestors>believes they should be self-sufficient enough to seal their halls when they feel like it and survive indefinitely>"Settle the grudge!">mostly warriors and nobles (specially those who lost their lands)
>>58975011*All progress in this society is dependent on reformer convincing everyone that his is the way the Ancestors used to do shit before these milk-bearded elf-fuckers lead everyone away from their wisdom>Yes, the Ancestors did use this gunpowder thing! That's how they won all their battles (which is all of them), our current armies suck only because we lost their knowledge!
>>58971906Dwarves are usually a homogeneous, monoracial society, so I'd imagine cleavages to be ideological or economic rather than ethnic in nature (being undwarfish, along with stealing, is the one of the worst crimes in Dwarven society and worthy of death). I'd imagine Industrialists vs Traditionalists, kinda like late Edo vs Meiji Era Japan, just with short, angry, drunk people. There is no real social mobility as Dwarves believe in a rigid society where everyone should "know their place", and politics is mostly kept to the upper classes. Honor duels and what not are popular ways of settling disputes between politicians. Labor could be a party too, but discouraged and hated by those in power as being undwarfish. Lower classes are nearly slaves in the mines or factories anyways.
>>58973367Sounds more like cult. I like it, though.
>>58971906conservatives, traditionalists and the dwarfen nationalists.yes, there're differences.
>>58971906Axes is Best Party, Hammers is Best Party. There is also a Swords is Best Party, but nobody talks to them.
>>58971906Something like this? "We are gonna build a wall and the Goblins are gonna pay for it! You can take my axe when you pry it from my cold dead hand! Our mines running out of gold is because of a world wide Elvish plot! Forges dont cause Cavern warming, lets build more forges! Fuck any dwarf who cant pay for their own wound treatment!"
>>58971906Agressive capitalists VS strict traditionalists
>>58971906Most of them would probably be centered around work unions. The miners, the smiths, the stonecutters, etc
>>58975055This is pretty cool, but I’m real sick of the book of grudges being a thing.
>>58979080What about Spears is Best?The spear-axe-hammer coalition does pretty well at the poll-axe.
>Dwarf presidencyTELL ME MORE!
>>58971906The good old Conservative Party, backing the king, nobles, and military.The worker's/commoners' hope - the Labour Party. Possibly a full blown revolutionary party at times with a huge undercurrent of grumbling and radicalism. Possible Anarchist/Socialist/Communist party outright or have those factions. They fight each other as much as they fight the Connies or the Liberals, and only their numbers give them any real strength until someone charismatic enough emerges from Sub Level Near Underdark to unite them to fight for unions, pensions, etc.The corporate propped puppet of the Liberal Party. Adventurous, greedy, and often too short sighted, working with the middle class, sell-out poor and non-connected nobility.Just like anywhere else, really. They could have fancy names like the Axe, the Hammer, and the Anvil, respectively but the fundamentals are the same.
>>58979282The two catagories are, it's either weapons derived from or double as useful tools (axes, hammers, flails) or weapons designed exclusively as weapons (swords, spears).Unless the spear-heads are detachable and they use that to trim their beards or pick their teeth or something. Swords not so much unless they machete underbrush or harvest sugarcane, which doesn't sound very dwarfy to me.
>>58971906The Skaven's Right Movement.:^)
>>58972024>It would be a cover of democracy, but really just a oligarchy under another name.So the United States?
>>58971906Fuck you. Fuck you for ruining this board.
>>58979478What? This actually seems like an interesting topic for once.
Which group would be pro and anti a pole tax - the pole tax being, of course, a tax on 10' poles.
I'm quite a novice in terms of Dwarves.Anyone has any books, games, vidyas, movies, comics, that center on standard fantasy Dwarves? The LOTR/Warhammer/Standard fantasy kind, not trying to be a hipster here.Thanks!
>>58979583Also the third party: Hammernalists, but nobody votes them because they're extremists.
>>58971906>The HammersSmiths and Craftsmen, the Hammers represent the interests of the 'middle class' in Dwarven society, Guild Maesters and other professionals that produce goods and services. Socially liberal and fiscally conservative, they seek greater privileges for themselves and the educated non noble class in Dwarven society, while taking a protectionist economic stance to prevent cheap mass produced non dwarven goods from flooding their markets.>The AxesRepresenting the professional soldiers and nobility, the Axes are the wealthiest of dwarves. Socially conservative and fiscally liberal, they espouse expanding Dwarven holdings, open trade, and waging war on their enemies. They favor open trade, both because it brings great wealth and prestige to their houses, and because it undermines and weakens the Hammers>The PicksMiners, Laborers, and other common poorer Dwarves. They tend to blow in whichever direction favors them more. They generally favor freer trade and more liberal society as it offers them more opportunities, but outside influences harming their prosperity can cause them to clamp down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd6xc56fdeQHello, fellow proletarian people, who wants some industrialisation?
One party that is focused on trying to learn and utilize various skills and techniques not traditionally known or used among Dwarven society such as certain forms of farming and manufacturing and trade. This party is represented by the various trade clans who specialize in such skills as machines and baking and, most importantly, the bankers who want to integrate into the newly formed global banking system A traditionalist party who believe the place of the Clanholms is to maintain the work of their forefathers. They recognize change is inevitable but they very much want to shape things the way they want and feel that jumping into various ventures leaves them vulnerable and introduces a level of change that could ultimately ruin Dwarven society without the nesscary levels of control. This party has various representation across Dwarven society but mostly from the Warriors and the Priests of the Clanholms who, in spite of their loyalty to the own clans, maintain a solidarity on the overal health and maintence of Dwarven culture.
>>58973786The party suffers a crushing split
>>58977256Political parties are already basically cults, or better said alliances of cults
>>58974190Growers' faction and showers' faction.
Well, the dorfs I made were a representative republic wherein the families dedicated to a specific facet of dwarven society vote for the guy who sits on the council that decides shit. Each one is called a "seat". i.e. The Rusted Seat is the head of agriculture, the Gold Seat is head of excavation and mining, the Brass Seat is head of war and monster slaying, ect. So farming families get to vote for who takes the Rusted seat, miners vote for the Gold seat, and so on. Dwarves can only vote in people for whatever craft they are registered as being affiliated with, so merchants can't vote for who will be head of religious affairs for example. This is to combat any 'tyranny of the majority' situations that almost always arises in democracy based upon popular vote.
>>58980479Then the fuckers begin to form unofficial parties and tinker with the registrations so that a man may be officially a farmer and a miner, at least on paper to exploit their votes.This is not necessarily born out of malice or corruption, but a desire to see their shared ideals come to fruition.
>>58979809Even their rush for industralization was flawed, they concentrated it all in small areas, leading to ugly, rushed urbanization and destroying established practices while other areas were left to rot as they were little more that harvest points for raw resource.Development needs to be divided and areas to be self-sufficant as possible.Though i guess he knew that which is why he dident, make the out-layers dependent on central.
Also beaver time again.
>>58980508Well these are (mostly) DnD-eque stereotypical dwarves we're dealing with, so there's usually more social stigma attached to bending the rules than we see in the real world. An ambitious dwarf who wants to risk punishment and being socially out cast could manage it, and this has happened before, but the number of them doing so is so small it's negligible to the grand scheme.
>>58980552>, they concentrated it all in small areasWrong. Google: WW2 industrial evacuation
>>58972845Don't vote for the More mining party, they'll dig too deep
>>58975090Make Khazadum great again!
>>58971906"There's them what swing th'hammer in the way th'ancestors intended-- in th'right hand, from over the shoulder straight doon, ye ken?""And then there's them what've forsaken all tha's good and holy 'neath the groond. Them tha' worship th'profane, oh aye, and work t'undermine the very foundation of th'Clan. Them tha' say you can direct yer hammer slantwise 'n not orthogonally, puttin' a licentious twist o' th'hips into yer swing. S'not natural, I say."?
>>58981293Dont believe in those pansy gnome-fuckers from the 'Ware the Deep party, theyre scared of old wives tales! Theyre has been no evidence to link the digging of tunnels to increased goblin raids OR the presence of winged Fire Demons!
>>58982354"Ye only say that caus' ye ken nae swing yer hips like a young dwarf nae more!"
>>58979238But the book is literally the only thing that has improved dwarves since Tolkien.
>>58979440pic related>>58979519Dwarf Fortress. Doesn't get any more dwarf than that.
>>58971906If you go by the usual 'dwarfs are organized into craftguilds' thing, then political parties probably represent the interests of their specific guild, with parties forming coalitions and smaller, weaker guild's banding together to form singular parties.
>>58979519WHF has always been my favorite version of dwarves, and there are plenty of books. Go ham.
>>58982386"And proudly! These short-in-th'beard lads 'n lassies swagger aroon, barely e'en two hundred years old! And they say 'och, wheel, swing yer hips if'n you want to strike true!'. Bugger 'em, I was swingin' hammer since 'fore they were a glitter in their mother's beardstones!"
Only one, Ulrist, only one.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Lovers_Party_(Belarus)
>>58982671"An' ye are mor'en six centuries now and can nae hit the broad side of a mine shaft, ye daft son of a gnome knockknobbler! Ye goot cat'racts as thick as hardtack an' joints that'n creak like an old mine cart!"
All im saying is maybe we should let in some halflings into the farming guilds, they have a natural gift for it. And of course, the voting rights that come with membership.
>>58982671>>58982909"Ye have both got gravel fer brains! Our ancestors be wantin us to fight wid the most sacred en' ancient of dwarven weapons. It ent right that ye've all come to swingin those little axes an' 'ammers aboot like crazy humans. True Dwarves fight with an Urgrosh and with 'is hair smeared with pig fat!"
>>58980807On the other side, you'd have:ReactionariesSuperreactionariesHyperreactionariesNeoreactionaries
Anti-elvish hate groups.
>>58983205heretics who want to trade with elves.
>>58971946Which one is pro bearded dwarf lass?
>>58971906It depends on how their political system is set up. If they've got a two party system, then it could be any stupid fucking garbage because two party systems are fucking stupid.Assuming a multi-party system, I imagine family bonds would be a huge part of what party you support, and a lot of parties would basically just be the political arm of various economic interests (this party is for the miners, this party is for the axe makers, this party is for the rich fuckers that hope like hell the miners and the axe makers don't team up)>>58973367I mean, that's not too far from real world isolationism
>>58982541I'm getting around watching dome DF tutorials actually. Knowing I can get a nifty isometric view makes such a world of difference. That and having played a bit of Rimworld was a good introduction I guess.
>>58972024This. Maybe something similar with guilds, (which are probably dominated by certain clans)>>58971906I think they tend to be kingdoms, so the only real parties are pro and anti current king. I could see a sort of constitutional monarchy with a King and a council of elders or "thanes" or some shit.
>>58981293>believing anti-mining propoganda
>>58972845I can dig this.
>>58982909"Oh och aye, ah've missed more with me hammer 'n ye've had the clackers ta e'en swing at! Th'way ye young 'uns braid yer beard ye might as well shave 'em off 'n live in a Moradin-damned tree! Nay, ye'll swing yer hammer like a proper son o' th'stone or ye'll learn proper form when I give ye a right cudgeling twixt yer uprights, right 'tween th'forks, aye? Doon below in yer undermine."
>>58984008"Aye? Will ye now? Ah'd like te see ye just try that! I'll be surprised if'n ye manage to hobble yer way over te me, let lone give me a cudgeling or, more'n'likely, a bit of a tickling. Climb back down yer hole ye ol' fart n'for we pummel you, proper hip swing n' all!"
>>58981293>they'll dig too deept. beardless surface fag
>>58983467Traditionalists believe in a rugged, masculine mop of fur, while the progressives believe in braiding and decorating the beard with jewelry in order to show honor, craftsmanship, and aesthetic sensibility.
>>58971906The Democratic Party of the Dwarven Nation
>>58980627>>58980575>>58980568>>58980552This beaver needs to review and revise.
>>58984105>THIS MONTH IN THE MINES>Delegates Urist Armhammersmith and Torme Forgenax engaged in the continuing debate over the "orthogonal vs. hip-turn" prescription issue. The debate ranged for six hours with no fatalities but the destruction of thirteen chairs and two tables; after Urist destroyed the first a second was brought into the Chambers of Delegation so Torme would have one to break as well). The number of injured Delegates is thought to number at least fifteen, but the official census is incomplete as it is difficult to get the Delegates away from a post-debate pint down at the Drowning Goblin tavern. Though the issue is no closer to resolution, it is unanimously being hailed as the most civil debate yet. Urist Armhammersmith did tell reports that he looked forward to another vigorous bout of democracy "Once [he'd] finished drinkin' tha' scurrilous orc-knobber under the table, then breakin' th'bloody table, ye kennit".>In other news, the Elvish diplomatic envoy departed after another month of being denied audience with the Delegation; "There were plenny important things what we had to jabber oot, aye?" said Delegate Corbin Drumblast, defending the Delegations decision to debate rather than treat with the Elves.
They're so strongly hierarchical that democracy would never take off in the first place
>>58985868nah. it totally could, but it would be closer to guild/union politics then mob rule democracy
>>58985505"Why do we even bother coming to this thrice damned mountain?! This is the third time in the last two decades and they would still rather prattle on about the proper way to clumsily swing a pick! There is just no way that their Mithril is worth this waste of time..."
>>589719067 Dwarves are sent in and meant to be individual parties of their own. Its meant to signify individual strength and willpower to handle not only matters of defense but social edicts.They look at our society and scoff at our filthy crutches, sharing power is corrupt and leaves windows to a hidden oppressor puppeteer the leader elected by his people.
>>58971906Don't know if anyone's mentioned it yet, but in one of the Discworld books, Vimes goes to a Dwarven city/kingdom in order to do politics. One of the parties, and I believe thet were the ruling party at the time, was a sort of old guard type. They believed that the methods they've used for centuries to mine are perfectly fine, and to use any new methods is an insult to the ancestors. They also had a thing about going above ground. They believed the the perfect dwarf should spend his entire life below ground, never going above the surface, and one of their more respected leaders follows that idea so well, that sunlight has never touched his skin. They were in contention with another faction that believed that trading with the humans and other surface dwellers was a good investment
I'd imagine they'd have some kind of Parliament with potentially two or more opposite parties vying for control. The elected PM handles things at the behest of the Dwarven King until he fucks up or does something out of line, at which point he'll be sentenced to X many hammer strikes.