What the fuck is solarpunk and why does Tumblr love it so much?
>>58291364Just Utopian scifi.
My understanding is that it's just your average punk setting but with a green aesthetic.
>>58291383So in no way punk???
>>58291364its the successor to steampunk, and by that I mean a genre of sci fi with no good media in it.
>>58291412It's "punk" because it's opposing cynical shit and pessimism which are the mainstream now. Yes, it's stupid.
>>58291412Actually somewhat more than a lot of other -punk genres since it tends to be countercultural and embrace shit like the green movement and anti-industrial, anticorporateism
>>58291453t. Captain Planet villain
>>58291433>>58291445That sounds like something I’d like, but I’m sure it’s plagued by intersectionality faggots who ruin the entire thing.
>>58291595I will say it has pretty interesting aesthetics. I appreciate the amount of greenery. It's the kind of style that I think works really well for hopeful sci fi.
Describe it.Is it insular?Is it expansionist?Is it proselytizing?What is the value of a human life in this setting?What cultures arise?What cultures are made to die?
If solarpunk means post dyson sphere society than sign me the fuck inIf solarpunk means sci fi hippies then sign me the fuck out.>t. someone who works in solar panel research
>>58291808Unfortunately, it's more the latter. With ~intersectionality~ and ~green-cities~ added on top of the shit sundae.
Is it also full of "acceptance"? If tumbler loves it, it probably is.
>>58291364There's no reason solarpunk can't be good. As much as Tumblr envisions hippy commune future, this all also means massive decentralization of humanity, since these communities only ever work on a small scale. You know what that means senpai? That's right, tribalism!There are still things for people to fight over - land, mineral wealth, religion, etc. And while life necessities are borderline post scarcity that doesn't mean the system doesn't require effort elbow grease or suffering.Think of it as post-post apocolyptic, like CATastrophe but without the yiff.
So it's Art Noveau, Arts and Crafts, gardens, small idyllic looking communities?I'm still reading stuff about it, but taking the premise and building on it could lead to a fun setting. And if it's supposed to stand around the early 1900s(?) or late 1800s(?) then there's a chance to mix it up with competing societies.
Man, it is deeply frustrating to see an idea as basic and common sense as 'social interaction is impossible to analyze outside of a holistic approach' get buried under extremists who think phrases like 'every dark cloud has a silver lining' are racist because it's denigrating the cloud for being a color other than white.
From what it sounds like, and follow me on this, it could be a cool setting Ford after FFVII. The FMV with Red XIII running up the hill to see the midgard covered in foilage. Any takers on that idea?
>>58292067sorry mate, don't follow what you're saying. Could you break it down for me? Sounds like a legit point to be made aware of.
>>58292067Fuck your holistic approach, faggot.
>>58292182Anyone who doesn't think that holistic examination is an important part of understanding a subject is, unironically and probably willfully, an idiot.>>58292122The basic, fundamental underlying point of intersectionalism is that you have to consider all aspects, and how those aspects intersect, of an individual or social structure to understand that individual or social structure. Unfortunately, as a philosophical point of view and examination, it's largely devolved into incredibly myopic bickering over the heteronormative gynophobia of crosswalk lights.
>>58292257Sorry I don't buy into your healing crystals and snake oil, hippie. Take your pseudo-mystical pablem and go back to the forest you came crawling out from.
>>58292277...I rest my fucking case.
>>58292257Any idea when the shift from understanding interactions between the person and the society the lived in became 'stop excluding me, reee'?
>>58291433>It's "punk" because it's opposing cynical shit and pessimism which are the mainstream now.That honestly sounds far more "*-punk" than most things that get given that suffix.
>>58291453You know what? Your pretty fucking upset my friend and I think your posting has given me just enough insight into what the fuck your problem is. You see, ever since your mother left, your daddy's been raising you in every regard to be his fucktoy sissy daughter. He works hard to pay for your hormones, makeup, and clothes, you show your appreciation by dragging him to bed as soon as he enters the door.You just love the taste of your daddy's sweaty cock after a day of eagerly waiting for him to come home. The wait is excruciating; yo're horny all day, and your transition is at the point that you can't even cum without his thick rod rubbing against your aching prostate. Often you spend the entire evening licking his gorgeous shaft and drinking his sweet precum. Once he eventually wills it, you sheepishly let go of him and stick your rounded ass out for him to ravage as he pleases. He pounds you into the sheets all night long, his massive member milking your little balls dry as you cry out and orgasm for the fifth time that night.Judging by how closely related you two are, it's almost surprising how his cock is so much bigger than yous! Guess that just goes to show that you were meant to be his daughter all along!
>>58292292Unfortunately, almost at conception; despite explicitly representing the idea that all elements of a person or structure and their intersections must be examined, the idea was codified to examine only a single example thereof (being both female and black). This was, unsurprisingly, remarkably counterproductive in the long run (which, to be fair, kind of made her point for her).
Games with >>58292313 aesthetic?
>>58292313You seem pretty mad. Are you upset I won't play your hippie reindeer games, faggot?
>>58291364Low-energy-density future where people have to be efficient with their tech, and cooperate, because there's no more oil.http://emlia.org/pmwiki/pub/web/Waylight.Waylight.html here's my effort from a few years back.
>these buttmad solarfagsLel, how's it feel to be pussies with a genre as "punk" as fucking Hanson?
I mean, thematically speaking it doesn't seem to be a bad thing at all, its just settings require an amount of conflict of some sort and these Utopian scenarios can't really ever get it right to produce that without literally being >DA BIG BAD INDUSTRIALIST WANNA CHANGE EVERYFINKA
>>58292313wtf I love solarpunk now
>>58291927Let's ruin it by making the tribe of the moon men
>>58292321The problem is, it's only focused on power/dominance. As it happens the world has way more mechanisms than that. Also you can divide identity groups all the way down to the individual, which makes that kind of logic lazy or evil.
>>58292417Turn A Gundam already has a society of moon men.
>>58291640Pretty cool, it sounds and looks like an update of the 'village' you come from before you go on a quest!
>>58292370Yeah. I like the idea of it being more of an ecological disaster in terms of conflict. Something like solarpunk feels like it'd work really well with a crisis like "A thresher maw has awoken on the planet, deal with it." or "Your society is super in-tune with the biosphere to survive, and a nearby volcano is going to erupt. If it does, the disaster will turbofuck your entire society. Figure out a solution"Solarpunk's aesthetic almost feels best for science fantasy to me. Its like the sci-fi shire.
>>58291851Didn't think I'd ever say that about a *punk genre, but that is something nobody needs.
It's an attempt to create social-through-literary movement combining ecologocial activism is with some of the dumbest radical left-wing ideologies currently available. The manifesto that defined it is so fucking dumb they literally ask "what is wrong with wanting and expecting Utopia" and they also get the etymology of the word wrong. It's just... pathetic, really. Really dumb naive leftist kids pretending that they and only they can totally solve the world in their dreams, and think that if they pretend hard enough, their little dreams will suddenly just pop into reality. I don't think it's significant in any way though. Outside of the moral circle jerk, there is literally nothing it can offer to anyone, so it will probably die out pretty soon.
>>58292502people forget that real punk is being homeless or squatting while shooting speed and howling mad rage. It's the politically oriented useful idiots like oi polloi, who made punk the shit it is today.
>>58292313>>58292322>>58292339I love this board so much
>>58292313This turns me on really bad.I'm so ashamed to be a soyboy.
I like the aesthetic.
>>58292479>Sci-fi ShireThats it! thats fucking it isn't it! That the only way it's tolerable is if it were in contrast to other themes!It DOES work in sci-fi, it does, but only if you treat it like it's a complete pleasure being there, like PCs in their downtime, or visit it for an arch, but the nitty gritty is almost completely necessity
>>58292417>RuinThat sounds totally fitting though
>>58291433>It's "punk" because it's opposing cynical shit and pessimism which are the mainstream now
The idea of technology married with nature?Best setting ever, I'm adopting it whatever a good basis/roman/game about it is created.
>>58292601The only way that would be tolerable in any kind of punk setting would be if it were the private habitat or arcology of some nutcase religious sect that wants to go back2nature.
>>58292624>>58291433Niggas be hating but this is literally STAR TREK
>>58292632Its true, and those are tacky as fuck.
There's a lot more ranting about tumblr people than anything else ITT.
>>58292646ain't hating here, this shit sounds rad
>>58292601I wonder what would menace that kind of universe? Big corp wanting to transfer the tree energy link to some nuclear one?
>>58292572At this point -punk means nothing but that.I have no real problem with it but it would be nice to properly differentiate cyber punk>outlaw high tech gangs raiding corporations and frustrating a shadowy illuminati, under trained, under funded and surviving off of their limited wits and what they can scavenge and stealand working for a future maga-corp.>You are part of a highly trained, well equipped problem solving team commissioned by a mega-corp or shady illuminati contact and your current job is to slap the stupid out of some troublesome punks.Two very different themes that just happen to be in the same basic setting.
Didn't we come up with solarpunk years ago on /tg/?
>>58292683Maybe people fight over what kind of tree biome to have?>THE CACTUS CULT IS AT IT AGAIN
>>58292683Could be a small group of cities trying to repopulate and reseed a world after an ecological disaster that mutated all life outside of said cities.
>>58292646Which version?Roddenberry: The Senile Years, Kirk's Space Western or DS9?Of the three I would like DS9 better because it's what was built from the Wild West IN SPAAAACE! of Kirk as civilization sprang up and the frontier, whilst still existing and you can get posted there to push it back, is several horizons away. It also offers the potential for the fuck awful of TNG Season 1 to be totally fucking ignored.
>>58292683Eh, I'd stray away from blatant "industralism is bad mmkay" and go more into the idea that just because you are in tune with nature doesn't mean that nature isn't out to murderfuck you and everyone else. When a civilization is so in tune with their biosphere that they can survive indefinitely, as is the dream with solarpunk, the smallest change can bring ruin. A slight shift in temperatures that your tech can't account for and suddenly everything starts going nuts. A space-born bacteria goes all andromeda strain all over you. The planet develops an allergy to humans and starts pulling a Nausicaa. There are tons of options.Beyond that, I think a lot of potency could really come from the idea of people fighting over such a place too. The idea of people fighting for a garden of eden that their actions while fighting despoil could be poignant as fuck if done correctly. Thinking about it, I'd love to set an Infinity-styled small squad based combat game in a setting like this. Half forest and half city in terms of terrain, fighting through arcologies and swinging off of branches, leaping through public parks and alongside aircars. I'd love it.
>>58291433If that was a problem I can agree with the 'punk' name convention. Every other punk takes the era it is set in and ramps everything up.Steampunk takes the Industrial revolution and makes the technology more advanced, but it also carries themes of Imperialism, pointless wars fought by the nobility and the unbelievably huge gap between the haves and have nots getting even widerDieselpunk brings the aesthetic of the retro style of the 40s and 50s, and the use of diesel instead of coal being the miracle energy source. It also carries the jingoist attitudes of the time, when wars were still fought by sending waves of soldiers into the meat grinder while folks at home enjoyed products which were essentially watered down tech the military developed.Cyberpunk is the promise of a technologically advanced future with flying cars, giant hologram signs, and the rights of individuals superseded by the wants of mega corporations, tyrannical governments, or both.Solarpunk is...post apocalypse hippies running the world?
I like the idea of it; nobody but the most one-dimensional of captain planet villains actually "hates" the idea of greenspace in cities. No one actually wants their life to be nothing but concrete and glass; it's just that the costs associated are, to varying people at varying degrees, not worth it, whether you believe that's right or wrong.That said, it is a nice idea, even if the actual aesthetics look like Seattle infected the civilized world.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFufOGZBwFM
You know what would add some conflict to this utopian setting? Some wild mutated fauna and flora which has overgrown due to our obssesion with returning the world to its 'natural beauty'?
>>58292820Now that I can understand. Nature being the queen bitch wrecking shit with little provocation, and humanity lives more in tune with it to keep from pissing her off and say...turning all the animals on the planet against humans for a week.
>>58292768>Solarpunk is...post apocalypse hippies running the world?A Utopia by most measures of the word; everyone is healthy, enjoys fulfilling social life, etc etc, a true Eden. It comes at the cost of suppressing more "negative" human traits such as aggression, ambition, conflict, and competition, to the point where some would even say it's tantamount of taking away free will and making humans in-human.You could probably put some properly dystopian biblical spin on it by having humanity "remake" God as an AI or something that would govern their new Eden, and all that comes with it.Are you a bad enough dude to eat the fruit of knowledge and bring bad vibes back to paradise?
>>58292370The conflict doesn't have to immediately apparent. The idea of a superficially ideal society which hides terrible horrors is quite appealing. There are good examples for terrifiying utopias, brave new world being the first one that comes to mind.
>UtopiaNone of you niggas ever worked onna farm I take it
>>58292866You think the people who like solar-punk semi-commie eco-shit have either? At best they fed a few chickens or cows during high school for credits.
The aesthetic is rad. So far there isn’t much else to it, though.>>58291808Which area do you work in? Just curious. I don’t keep up with it too well.>>58291991Yes, but with a lot of urbanism and high technology as well.Is it me, or does “Out on Blue Six” feel solarpunk, despite not looking anything like solarpunk is supposed to look?
>>58292874I got to be honest dude a lot of the arguments in this thread seem to come from the kind of people who feel threatened by the fans of solarpunk rather than who want to discuss it.Like the point is its utopian, from what I can see. That's fine. People have been writing utopian sci-fi for at least 100 years. Why are you trying to be like, nuh emotions are repressed >>58292838 or nature is going to fucking murder you >>58292754.It's just a thing. It's OK that it is a thing. Your problem seems to be the people you see as "semi-commie eco-shit" and because of that you feel offended by their setting.
Would Horizon: Zero Dawn be considered Solarpunk? It's got a huge enviromental message. If so, that's probably where this fad started.Not that I'm complaining though, H:ZD was fuckin rad.
>>58292895>I got to be honest dude a lot of the arguments in this thread seem to come from the kind of people who feel threatened by the fans of solarpunk rather than who want to discuss it.This.
>>58292916>Would Horizon: Zero Dawn be considered Solarpunk?Sure why not, though it's not Noveau enough, I feel.>that's probably where this fad started.Considering that according to TV Tropes it started around 2014, no, it didn't.
>>58292895You want to know how I can tell you're from tumblr?Yeah, it's a thing; everything is a thing, and that means that calling it a thing means absolutely nothing.Just because it's a thing doesn't mean it's immune to criticism or expansion, and to be quite honest with you, Utopia is boring. Straight up, 100% boring. Conflict and drama, highs and lows, light and dark, that's what makes something interesting.I'm not offended by their setting, I just think it'd end up being a living hell after a few decades if it was real at worst, and just plain boring at best, regardless of whether or not I think they're commie ecofaggots or not. Pretty much every utopian setting that's utopian all the way through is just boring.
I like it, but needs more conflict and danger.
>>58292933Also, no one likes Communists aside from others of their kind.
>>58292953That too, but it's good practice to not judge an idea based on who had it.Solarpunk would be just as boring if it was dreamt up by radical ecologist Quakers or something rather than Marxists.
>utopianJust because we achieve post scarcity doesn't mean humans will stop fighting, each other or other races if it's that kind of sci-fi. There are lots of reason to have conflict even in a post scarcity society, furthermore just because there's a decent garunteed living for everyone doesn't mean people won't still work to earn luxuries for enjoyment or status, nor does it garuntee that baseline living will be to everyone's satisfaction. None of this requires humanity to exist in a Utopia or a dysotopia, nor to be Communist. Just lots of green technology
>>58292933>You want to know how I can tell you're from tumblr?Not really, because I'm not. I don't have a tumblr and the only time I ever visit a tumblr is 1) it's some artist I'm checking out 2) it's the Q&A section of my favourite webcomic (Unsounded) or 3) I'm looking at porn.You can find utopia boring and that's fine; I agree that narrative stories need conflict. But that conflict can absolutely take different forms and that's why we have such a wide variety of creative works with an insane variety of scales of conflict, some of them utopian, that already exist. Conflict doesn't have to be as simple as 'skirmish gangs are shooting each other in the streets' or 'people are really living in a fascist dystopia'.>>58292953You're definitely not doing anything to dissuade me of the idea that your problem is with the people you perceive as behind this more than anything else.
>>58292952I can't fathom running anything interesting in the setting because of this though. it's it's weakness
>how to have conflict in post scarcity sci-fiEclipse Phase
>>58292257ITT and everywhere else:>social critics rediscover differential equations>ideologues and social critics of every stripe consistently and sometimes deliberately misunderstand the idea
>>58292768>Solarpunk is...post apocalypse hippies running the world?O humans realizing that overwhelming technology will brought the Earth on verge of destruction so there's a massive switch in nation mindsets to turn them into longterm symbiotic interaction with nature based on scientific knowledge (green plant energy, solar scalar fields, ect...)For running a civilisation, you need energy, materials, workforce, food, science, and spirituality.>>58292754That was the point of my question. How to bring instability into a long term stable setting? I doubt a bacteria would work because of the scientific knowledge, nor a climatic reversal because it was probably the cause leading to that kind of setting. An alien invasion will look like the standard anti-emperialism setting.How to trouble a setting that look like the perfect answer to an already troubled setting? Maybe a mystical one? Humans merged themselves with other living beings like plants and discovered new perception of the world, leading to a new door to madness?
>>58292895>Why are you trying to be like, nuh emotions are repressed >>58292838 # or nature is going to fucking murder you >>58292754 #.Because it's supposed to be a punk setting. Utopia and Punk are mutually exclusive.
>>58292963>using tumblr for pornRegardless, here's my problem with Utopian settings; the fact that they're Utopian doesn't even mean anything. If the conflict is so small scale that it doesn't threaten this Utopia, then it could just as easily be set in any other relatively peaceful period of time, real or fictitious, without losing any meaning. If that society has enjoyed peace, prosperity, and social harmony for a thousand years and will continue to do so for a thousand more, the wider scope that the society is Utopian means absolutely nothing beyond a vague sense of "Oh, that's nice."However, if the conflict is serious enough that the setting being Utopian actually matters, it's not Utopian in the first place. Whether the conflict comes with implementing the Utopia, or tearing it down, or sustaining it, the fact that there's a conflict at all means it's not actually Utopia, that there still are problems, whether those be explicit or insidious."Utopia" is just taking "It was a peaceful and good time" and turning it into "It was the MOST peaceful and MOST good time"; it adds so little to the story that actually preserves the setting as a Utopia. It's either a backdrop to personal conflict or slice of life, or its a boring narrative of a static society, or it's a Utopia in peril and thus actually not Utopia. It's Oxymoronic, in essence.Also, >>58292953 isn't me; >>58292874 and >>58292933 is me.
>>58292994Are they? Specifically this kind of nature-driven tight-knit community utopianism? I'm thinking of The Art of Not Being Governed here, these small tribal societies existing at the edges of East Asian padi states and actively resisting incorporation. Geographically and socially isolated, preferring their hunter-gatherer and small-scale agrarian culture to the a hierarchical, royal, rice-gathering and slave-taking one.Those societies were anarchic, which at least has strong crossover with punk subculture, but they'd also fit in this solarpunk world. WITHOUT needing to say oh people are shooting each other on the reg or oh all the technology is bad and the earth is evil or oh everyone is kept docile and drugged up.
>>58292933>I just think it'd end up being a living hell after a few decades if it was real at worst, and just plain boring at best,Wait, that makes no sense. Are you really telling me you’d wake up one day and think, “Man, this bites! Where’s the war, the corruption, the poverty? Couldn’t we have a pandemic or a crime wave or at least a few solid riots? God, this peace and prosperity is so dull!” Conflict in fiction is one thing; conflict in real life is another.
>>58292990>O humans realizing that overwhelming technology will brought the Earth on verge of destruction so there's a massive switch in nation mindsets to turn them into longterm symbiotic interaction with nature based on scientific knowledge (green plant energy, solar scalar fields, ect...)>For running a civilisation, you need energy, materials, workforce, food, science, and spirituality.>not becoming post-human techno-god ubermensch and leaving the Earth to its own devices as a pristine jewel, all while keeping careful watch to ensure the wider universe doesn't threaten it through natural disasterCould have something interesting with un-uplifted humans living in the suddenly abandoned and "reset" Earth.
>>58293028I don't agree with your first point: sci-fi often explores unique social, personal and technological problems through the science fiction setting. It's not always going to be possible to explore those in any other peaceful period of time.On your second and third point, I'm seeing "utopian" and you're sticking to strict "the utopia" so YMMV.
desu solarpunk was more utopian rather than an actual utopia.
>>58292994What if the society is genuinely good, but at the expense of being brutally authoritarian and stagnant? So the core tension is safety,health and stability against the desire to make one's own mistakes and experience novelty.The state is benevolent but stagnant and stifling. The punks live worthwhile and interesting lives but if extended to the entire population it would lead to destruction.
Solarpunk is basically niggers and chinks living in a Communist Utopia, the setting.Fire it into the sun.
>>58293042I know you're being facetious and purposefully hyperbolic, but yes. There needs to be argument, there needs to be disagreement, because that's how humans advance. A perfect society is a stagnant society, and a stagnant society is not perfect.While day to day life for the average person would be wonderful, because no one themselves want conflict of that scale, can you imagine it after a thousand years? Generation after generation of the same, whatever social progress there is being glacially slow, perhaps even an "end" to history. An eternity of stasis without revolution and change to bring out true human vigor.I'm sure it'd be nice for the first few generations, but I can only imagine the despair and decadence of a people who's history is unchanging.
>>58293050>I don't agree with your first pointI didn't say it had to be non sci-fi, only that it had to just be a relatively peaceful period of any other era, real or fictional, and that includes other sci-fi eras that are not necessarily utopian.It really comes down to the fact that the difference between a peaceful era, and a Utopia, is a Utopia where history Ends. Full stop.
>>58293028Have you read, say, “The Dispossessed” or “The Left Hand of Darkness”? Where would they fit into this categorical scheme?
You could still run a game in a Utopia about your players exploring the radical societal changes brought about by new technology. I think it's worth while to explore how living a life without the shit we take for granted like parents, families, romantic love, etc is worthwhile. The PCs won't be in trouble, but for the players it will still be interesting to play because they will be interacting with an alien world.
>>58293090Here's a compromise, we'll fire solarpunk into the sun if we can fire you into the sun first
The only way I can see it as interesting would be perhaps if it was more of a dystopia disguised as a Utopia. Like say for example yes post scarcity may have been almost achieved, but not for everyone yet which in turn creates a huge class divide. Or perhaps to achieve their perfection, freedom of speech and choice in simple things such as choice of job have been limited so that citizens get the job that is believed to be best for them.
>>58293139>if it was more of a dystopia disguised as a UtopiaThis gets fucking boring when you're out of your teens, senpai.
>>58293080>genuinely good>brutally authoritarian and stagnantPick one and only one.
>>58293120That sounds great for a one shot. Anything beyond that would just be the DM jerking themself off to completion about their setting.
>>58293117No, and while I want to say I'll read them, after looking at the synopsis I don't find the subject or themes terribly appealing. Regardless, neither are Utopian; different societies are present in them, certainly, some that might be seen by some as more perfect than others, but not utopian.I'm wary of anything that's describe as utopian because it exhibits extremely progressive ideals.
>>58293157Holy fuck nigga I'm not that guy but have you really not read Ursula K. Le Guin's landmark SF?
>>58293080Then you don't have a utopia, you have a dystopia.
>>58291364What are the canonical works of the genre? What makes it punk? How is it different from the established genres of eco utopianism and optimistic sci-fi?
>>58293172Same shit, different paint.
>>58291412>>58291445-punk means that it has a distinct aesthetic and a major theme of it is how it affects society. Any sci-fi can have cyborgs but not all of them look at how this would change society, for instance one episode of Ghost in the Shell had Togusa on trial for excessive force and discrimination against a cyborg after he repeatedly shot him in anger.
>>58293162Like I said, it doesn't interest me. There are lots of known authors, so there are necessarily lots of landmark stories that made those authors known.The theme, ideals, and perhaps even agenda if there is one, doesn't appeal to me; the Gethen society doesn't sound particularly interesting to me, and all in all it's the kind of book I'd pick up at the library, read the back, flip through a few pages, and just not get hooked.
>>58293182Now you're learning.
>>58293141The issue with writing a Utopian setting is that utopias must be perfect by definition. If your setting is a utopia then there cannot be conflict in any normal sense, which makes arranging a compelling narrative for the players very difficult.
Itt no imagination
On the whole I find it interesting that people like to call it utopian, yet the the tumblr post didn't say it was. The only quote I could find that was close to "utopian" was that with "energy costs at a low, I like to imagine people being more inclined to focus their expendable income on the arts!" which is a bit Renaissance Italy-esque in my honest opinion, what with all that arts and stuff.It's not described as utopian, but lots of people think it is
>>58292953>Also, no one likes Communists aside from others of their kind.Historically communists hate each other and purge themselves regularly.
>>58293272It's wonderful that the problem solves itself, but it's a shame that their ideology spreads virulently enough to outpace its death factor.
>"[So] solarpunk is not utopian in the negative sense of wanting to design a “perfect” world without any problems – a outopia (no-place) – but it is utopian in imagining a better world which will inspire people to create it in reality – a eutopia (good-place)." >"It sees utopia as a constant process of approximating an ideal, not reaching a light at the end of a tunnel.">"Solarpunk acknowledges that our utopia of social liberation and ecological stewardship may never be achieved 100%, but if we at least keep that vision in mind, throwing our efforts into making the world a bit better wherever we can, then at least every step we take towards achieving that utopia will be a step in the right direction.">"It will be progress, and, for those it positively impacts, liberation."
>>58293303Asking people to read instead of autistically rage about muh marxists?!
>>58293303And what of those it negatively impacts? Enslavement? Annihilation? What happens to the people who don't want to fall in line? What's their fate?
>>58293303>le myth of progress
>>58293321Depends, what kind of conflict do you want?
>>58291364It is diverse and inclusionary to Asian/African cultures.
>>58293095Er, you’ve jumped from “a few decades” to “a thousand years.” Why?Peace, prosperity, and well-functioning institutions seem pretty damn compatible with cool art, science, and philosophy. There’s no reason to believe that a utopian society would be stagnant in these areas. Perhaps you agree with me on that, but believe that a utopia requires something far beyond peace, prosperity, and well-functioning institutions— something that really would preclude change in technology or culture. What’s your threshold for “utopian”? Maybe it’s better to approach the question in reverse: precisely what sorts of unpleasantness would you need to add to a utopia to return its dynamism? Stubbed toes, burnt toast, long lines at the DMV, peaceful protests, the occasional serial killer, really little wars that are over pretty quickly and only kill tens of thousands of people, just the right amount of air pollution...?
>>58293328Oh look, a conflicting ideal that can be expanded upon in relation to the setting.
>>58293339I can taste the Bay Area elitism and smugness coming off your post. Consider jumping off a bridge sometime in the near future.
So....Is Appleseed Solarpunk?
>>58293374No. Yes. Kind of?
>>58292732>THE CACTUS CULT IS AT IT AGAIN
>>58293327>http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SolarPunk>those provided examples:>a 40k fanwork>treasure planet>Princess Mononoke>Laputa castle in the sky>wall-E>zootopia>CATastrophe>pokemonnone of these really fit neatly in their description though
Cyberpunk never had anything to do with actual "punk" either, you nerds. Punks would hate anyone who enjoyed science fiction, or any fiction that distracts from the actual real shit they were rebelling against. Cyberpunk just co-opted the word so nerds could feel like a part of a culture that couldn't stand them.
>>58293339>Er, you’ve jumped from “a few decades” to “a thousand years.” Why?Because a Utopia that failed after a few decades was never a Utopia in the first place, anon; hell, it'd do worse than most states throughout history.>Maybe it’s better to approach the question in reverse: precisely what sorts of unpleasantness would you need to add to a utopia to return its dynamism? You know that's a loaded question that'd only make me sound like an edgelord, anon, but you're confusing to separate levels of dynamism.Of course people would still have conflict, they'd still have ups and downs, they'd have triumphs and failures, so on and so forth, and perhaps the individual life of an individual person, looked through the lense of only that person, would be a near-perfect life.But what about the people as a whole? Their nation, their culture, their society? What of it over the course of decades, of centuries, of millennia? Were you to ask someone to think of their history over the past however many years, of something that truly effected and changed the world, they'd likely only be able to say "we had peace, same as yesterday, same as tomorrow".The only way that I can put this as neutrally as possible is that evil is not good or desirable, but it is necessary. Just as an individual person is defined by lows and highs, so too is history; without those lows to go with the highs, there is no history, and we have lost an essential part of humanity.
>>58293423It only came about like 3-4 years ago, what do you want.
>>58293436your Neuromancer for the setting would be a good start
>>58293321>Once there were parking lots>Now it's a peaceful oasis>You've got it, you've got it>This was a Pizza Hut>Now it's all covered with daisies>You got it, you got it>I miss the honky tonks,>Dairy Queens, and 7-Elevens>You got it, you got it>>58293157I don’t mean to be insulting, but if those ideas don’t sound interesting to you, why are you in this thread talking about hypothetical future societies? Le Guin writes— wrote, alas— some top-notch hypothetical future societies.Let’s try this another way: can you think of some entity, in fiction or elsewhere, that does match your concept of utopia? If so, what is it?
>>58293497>utopiaGattacca seems likes the best sci-fi utopia to me.
>>58293497>I don’t mean to be insulting, but if those ideas don’t sound interesting to you, why are you in this thread talking about hypothetical future societies?Why, do you want the thread to be an echo chamber?Not all hypothetical future societies are equal, anon, and not all of them are progressive.What does "future society" mean to you, anon? Does it necessarily mean more liberal, progressive, technologically advanced, egalitarian, etc etc? Or does it simply mean a society that would arise after ours, whatever shape or form it might be?>Let’s try this another way: can you think of some entity, in fiction or elsewhere, that does match your concept of utopia? If so, what is it?No, because I reject the concept of utopia entirely. There are many goods in many societies, and some of them are mutually exclusive goods; there is good in society that resists static structure, just as there is good in society that embraces it.Like I said, I consider the idea of utopia to be inherently oxymoronic, and even more paradoxically, the pursuit of an imagined perfection pushes it away.That said, maybe I'm just not smart enough to actually conceive of a proper utopia, or those things which I do think are flaws, aren't.
>>58293497>>58293556That all said, if I were to even begin to vaguely describe what a potential utopia might be, it would come down to the core idea of the increase of knowledge and intelligence.Knowledge of good necessarily requires knowledge, and knowledge requires intelligence, so if there is some true Good, the advancement of cognition beyond human limitations is likely a requirement to even find it in the first place. Neither peace nor conflict is the end goal, but a society dedicated to further knowledge and increased capacity for that knowledge in all forms is.Beyond that, how could I even hope to describe it? How could an ant describe a nation?
>"this setting is shit because it's a utopia">setting is explicitly described as "not a utopia"
>>58293594>"I'm not an apple", says the apple
I would love to create some visuals of this setting but add a lot of primitivism and tribalism just to have well toned people, blood and skeletons to go along with the futuristic city jungles.
>>58293042Anon people are waking up in the morning and thinking those exact thoughts every day. They just get their fix of strife by inflating trivial problems into internet crusades.People need problems. Lack of problems is a problem solved by causing problems. Happiness is felt relative to how shit you've felt before, so the more furious and insane people get over an issue the better and more satisfied they feel when they make progress towards whatever the fuck it is they're after.
>>58293590>>58293556Consider making a new thread.You're not even strictly talking about solarpunk anymore, you're talking about the idea of utopias in general at this point.
>>58293619That's kind of where the discussion has gone, hasn't it? I'm not particularly inclined to start a thread, really; I've made the same points a hundred times before, and I've heard the same times a hundred times before.Feel free if you'd like to, anon.
>>58293373>Consider jumping off a bridge sometime in the near future.I consider it all the time, even though I’ve been on medication for nearly two decades. I think it’s getting better, though.>>58293431>Because a Utopia that failed after a few decades was never a Utopia in the first place, anon; hell, it'd do worse than most states throughout history.Ah, I thought you’d moved the time required for the utopia to become boring from “a few decades” to “a thousand years.”>Just as an individual person is defined by lows and highs, so too is history; without those lows to go with the highs, there is no history, and we have lost an essential part of humanity.I think this assertion only seems plausible as long as you keep it abstract, and stops making sense as soon as you try to identify those lows.
>>58293627solar punk have ecologist punk that rebelled against overwhelming technology perturbating ecosystems and weather.It's a post cyberpunk setting.
>>58293423I think Pokemon and zootopia fly pretty close
It's a damn good aesthetic, but the way it's describe it just isn't a fun setting. It's not too hard to make something decent out of it though:>The apocalypse happened and after decades the world is completely covered with plants and trees>The humans who survived live in small tribes and city-states, using pre-apocalypse solar technology to power their society, so, even if the world ended, life still has conforts and some modern tech (but nothing too large and complex)>The conflict comes from exploring and rebuilding the world: scavenging old tech in the ruins of the massive cities, hunting the mutant creatures who live in the wilderness, fighting rival communities.Just make the tumblr solarpunk perfect world be the objective you are trying to reach, no the way the setting is already.
>>58293327This seems more like TV tropes style faces-in-the-clouds misdirected pattern matching than an emergent genre. The concept of an harmonious agrarian utopia dates back to the Greek concept of Arcadia and has always belonged to the upper classes (hence excluding it from being "punk").
>>58292838So literally the Culture? When the author writes an utopia but when you think about it it's the worst dystopia ever written?
To be honest I'd prefer Transhumanism any day, warts and all.>Solar Punk is a genre of Speculative Fiction that focuses on craftsmanship, community, and technology powered by renewable energy, wrapped up in a coating of Art Nouveau blended with African and Asian drawings. It envisions a free and egalitarian world with a slight bend toward social anarchism.Basically this entire genre is Tumbr going 'But what if we combine fuck Western Progress with all the benefits of Western Progress :3c' - They cheerfully ignore that Asia and Africa sure as fuck aren't free and egalitarian places.Sure it has a shitload of anarchy, but maybe not the kind you whitebread motherfuckers are thinking about.>Meanwhile, Solar Punk aims to subvert those systems and replace them with ones that work better in the long-term through local communities, supporting artisans, and living sustainably. Fuck artisans and fuck 'sustainable' living. Alright I don't mean that. What I mean is 'fuck what Tumblr considers these things to be' because Tumblr wants to replace practicality with aesthetic when one is vital and the other is only food for the soul.Stop treating Industrialization as the great evil you hooting chimps. Fuck your 'Oh if only we were more green and ate more yak semen' mentality.Solarpunk, far as I can snout out is about taking the result of progress then spitting in the face of the effort that allowed such things to happen in the first place.Give me the plate world, give me the orbital, give me 10^20 souls, their hopes and dreams packed in a chip the size of a thumbnail, buried deep in the heart of a truck sized probe on a windswept world as the artificial intelligence within tries to turn it into a habitable land for those that it will never know but loves more than any being alive today can comprehend.That's far more beautiful in my eyes than any amount of 'I put solar panels on a mosque, so beautiful!'
>>58293649>I think this assertion only seems plausible as long as you keep it abstract, and stops making sense as soon as you try to identify those lows.To a degree, yes; obviously no one WANTS to lose a loved one before their time, or to have their home taken from them, or to be rendered poor, or to be maimed and disabled, etc.No one wants to be cut off in traffic, or to miss out on the last ticket for a concert, or to get a cold, or to fail a test, etc.Those are all bad things that we don't want to happen to ourselves, and we don't want to happen to good people (or people in general, depending on how kind you are), but they -do- happen, and good comes out of these bad things from time to time, and they define those people, and they give broader context to the good times of their life.Extend that to a nation, to a people; they don't want to embroiled in a bitter, bloody war; they don't want to wither under a crippling depression or famine; they don't want to be oppressed under a cruel tyrant, or terrorized by crime.And yet, when those things do happen, good comes with them; bravery and courage in the face of adversity, stubborn and stoic determination to survive, or the passion to revolt against the tyrant, or to take back their streets and neighborhoods and cities from criminals. They define the character and history of a nation, and make those period of peace and prosperity all the better.
>>58293691>be the objective you are trying to reach, no the way the setting is already.That's what it is already; see >>58293303
>>58293700It's a utopia for the minds, and a dystopia for isn't a machine-god; at least for the ones who aren't living up life in post-singularity hyper-hedonism.And that's entirely my point; pursuit of perfection inevitably leads to imperfection.
>utopian sci fi>not wanting anarchic spaghetti western in space and other grimderp bullshitSAD
>>58292646Even then I'd cut Star Truk as Futurism with varying flavors, Solarpunk from what I can tell is a by and large terrestrialy focused flavor.That said I actually really like the aesthetics of it, very comfy for a functioning science fiction setting that has found equilibrium.
>>58293705Now do that without mentioning tumblr
>>58293303Seems like the biggest issue is the potential to be nauseatingly saccharine in the hands of your archetypal Tumblrina more so than anything else.
>>58293691Miyazaki DID write some great stuff, I agree.
>>58293745The genre was literally made on Tumblr. You can't divorce the creation from the creator, when the creator's ideas and biases show in the creation.
>>58293705This anon gets it.How beautiful the day will be when the sun is blotted out from the rest of universe, occluded by the might of and majesty of human civilization.How beautiful the day when the sheer scope of that cloud of civilization means you will never interact, you could never interact, with all but the merest fraction of it.How beautiful the day will be when all stars go dark, each supporting a billlion billion minds.
>>58293759So basically a non-issue?>>58293762CATastrophe was made on /tg/ m8.
>>58293745Sure:To be honest I'd prefer Transhumanism any day, warts and all.>Solar Punk is a genre of Speculative Fiction that focuses on craftsmanship, community, and technology powered by renewable energy, wrapped up in a coating of Art Nouveau blended with African and Asian drawings. It envisions a free and egalitarian world with a slight bend toward social anarchism.Basically this entire genre is idealistic, liberal-bubble fuckheads going 'But what if we combine fuck Western Progress with all the benefits of Western Progress :3c' - They cheerfully ignore that Asia and Africa sure as fuck aren't free and egalitarian places.Sure it has a shitload of anarchy, but maybe not the kind you whitebread motherfuckers are thinking about.
>>58293711The way the tumblr version is described, the "trying to reach a better world" sounds like it's more about activism and social work in a world that is already pretty good than scavening tech, hunting monsters and building a new society from the ruins of the old
>>58292985To live is to suffer.
>>58293776>Meanwhile, Solar Punk aims to subvert those systems and replace them with ones that work better in the long-term through local communities, supporting artisans, and living sustainably. Fuck artisans and fuck 'sustainable' living. Alright I don't mean that. What I mean is 'fuck what idealistic, liberal-bubble fuckheads consider these things to be' because idealistic, liberal-bubble fuckheads want to replace practicality with aesthetic when one is vital and the other is only food for the soul.Stop treating Industrialization as the great evil you hooting chimps. Fuck your 'Oh if only we were more green and ate more yak semen' mentality.Solarpunk, far as I can snout out is about taking the result of progress then spitting in the face of the effort that allowed such things to happen in the first place.Give me the plate world, give me the orbital, give me 10^20 souls, their hopes and dreams packed in a chip the size of a thumbnail, buried deep in the heart of a truck sized probe on a windswept world as the artificial intelligence within tries to turn it into a habitable land for those that it will never know but loves more than any being alive today can comprehend.That's far more beautiful in my eyes than any amount of 'I put solar panels on a mosque, so beautiful!'But considering the genre originally literally came from a tumblr post, I think it's fair to say I can mention tumblr all I fucking fancy in reference to this, in the same way I can mention the 70s-80s while talking about Cyberpunk, or hipsters and gears while talking about new wave steampunk (tm)You out of control greasefire of a human being.
>>58291808>t. someone who works in solar panel researchAyy. Where that ?
>>58292985>social critics>understanding math beyond elementary arithmetic
>>58293759Good thing that everyone interested in the genre isn't always an archetypal Tumblrina.
>>58293790Now do it without /pol/
>>58292973Well it's basically the shire, great place for people to live but it's stability isn't gonna be universal. Just like how in a cyberpunk setting not everything is going to be miserable for everyone but there are certainly places where misery gonna be endemic. Sensibility, scale and good worldbuilding are key in the development of settings, and just like any other solarpunk is an aesthetic with potential for use be it as a whole or through taken elements.Or you can be triggered by it like some people in the thread.
itt: anons cannot think of ways to drive conflict in a genre
>>58293726I like the Pokemon setting, but I don't think it's "solarpunk" (or any other kind of punk for that matter). The Christian narrative tends to center on good versus evil: either the forces of progress bring civilization to the merciless wilds or the peace-loving tree elves defeat the evil orcs.Shinto is an animist religion, so everything has a spirit. Pokemon is this taken in a very literal sense. There's less good and evil and more harmony and conflict, and this allows an understanding that you can industrialize without turning into Mordor and you can be ecologically sustainable without shitting in the woods.At the same time I'd say it's an inherently conservative view that rejects challenges to the status quo (note that in real life Japan is much closer to Deus Ex's electronic old men running the world than Pokemon's eco utopianism). This is the opposite of punk, which espouses radical change and violent action.
>>58293700>worst dystopia ever writtenAre you high? Living in the Culture is awesome. You're a NEET at warp speed. Intellectually and morally fulfilling missions are available. There's a universe to explore. If you're a "sweat of your own brow" type you can go ulterior, join Contact, or just leave.Unless your value system requires people to suffer, the Culture is one of the most brilliantly conceived utopias in fiction.
>>58293183... And a bleak or nihilistic tone centered, typically, on how the downfall of man is based in his own failings.
>>58293911There is no prosthesis for the human spirit.
>>58293819>Anyone that acknowledge the existence of certain locations being political bubbles and who dislikes ultra-progressive politics is /pol/Nah, I think we're done here. Just because some lunatics have gone entirely off the reservation and left liberals like me standing here holding our dicks and sanity while they replace equality with equity, virtue with virtue signalling and handling the rough truths of the world with pretty, pretty lies doesn't mean anyone that disagrees with them is Liberally Hitler.Isn't it grand how you can just shift gears and move goalposts without even thinking about it? Anything to avoid actually stopping and thinking 'maybe he has a point and the appearance of good is not the same as good itself'Give me an oil stained, grime coated world, wrapped in darkness and bare metal where hard working people are able to live, love and thrive over a shallow 'Utopia' focused around ignoring the practicalities that'd fail within a generation because every motherfucker and their fucked mother wants to be a pastry chef instead of learning how to replace the fucking solar panels they use on everything any day.
>>58293902>This is the opposite of punk, which espouses radical change and violent action.Honestly I would put "Punk" currently at the position of radical counterculture without the necessity of violence, though violence can certainly be a part of it, however to figure where it can be placed in the "punk" aesthetics one has to be well aware of the existing punks. It is the radical rejection of the bleak landscapes of cyberpunk, dieselpunk and cyberpunk and syncretism with natural elements as opposed to the conquest of them.But that's just my take on it.
>>58293956Now do it without Tourette's
>>58293774>>58293808Yeah, more or less just another way of hand waving the controversy. I'd be more hung up over the punk suffix and the connotations therein but that just feels like being petty. It's just a sci-fi with an underlying connotation of "try your best". It's fine.
>>58293956I like you, anon; I'd ask you to help me give commies free helicopter rides any day of the week.
>>58293956Stop being sensible this is 4chan, it has no place here.
>>58293956If you want shit then you don't need to be given it anon.
>>58293956Get off your soapbox anon you've been triggered by an aesthetic.
>>58293961If something can be punk because it rebels against being punk then we can just admit that the word has lost all meaning and any future speculative fiction genre will have a meaningless -punk suffix.If we're going to torture a dump analogy couldn't we just call it solarprep?
so how's about them creativity, huh.how about some deconstructions and reconstructions of solarpunk?
>>58294056But he's right, though.
>>58294063Oh he is.Doesn't mean he isn't triggered by a fucking aesthetic created on trigger central.
>>58294056He isn't wrong
>>58294074Speaking out isn't being triggered, though.Someone saying "Communism is the greatest good", and someone else saying "no, you're a retard", doesn't mean the second person is triggered.
Thinking about this, I'm kind of reminded of the Romulan starting zone in Star Trek Online. Basically you start out in this Romulan colony on some podunk world, which is styled kind of like a quaint little village. The architecture and clothing all evoke a sort of shire-like vibe, only with Romulans instead of hobbits.Now, the whole thing is backed up with advanced tech. There are farms, but they've got high-tech irrigation and transporters that beam stuff and people around. It's got a small town feel where everyone knows everyone, but everyone also has communicators and disrupter pistols. And what are they doing on this colony? They're growing wine. Why? Because they plan on having a big party where the whole colony/village gets together and drinks the wine that they've made while shooting off fireworks. Basically the scene from LotR where Bilbo has a birthday party, only with Romulans.
>>58294059I feel that the -punk suffix has become a catch-all term for specific flavors of speculative fiction.It has a new meaning, basically.
>>58294103Liking a comfy aesthetic in fiction is not the same thing as thinking communism is the greatest good. You're doing the same thing as people who call those who disagree with them nazis, only you're claiming those who like X thing you don't like are communists instead of nazis.
>>58294103>"I hate X genre, Y setting is SO much better REEEE">not being triggered
>>58293986All I ask anon is that if you ever do get the whole helicopter thing going on, you remember there are some liberals who aren't shallow parodies of humanity and actually believe the things we're saying.You probably wouldn't approve of my opinion on shit like universal healthcare and basic income, but at least I'm willing to sit down, shake your hand and wrestle over the details on the battleground of ideas rather than calling you racist-sexist-transphobic-devil-child, declaring victory via my 37 friends in media (#wokegate) then running off to my fortified silicone valley opinions fortress never to be heard from again apart from the occasional lobbed mortar-tweet.>>58294008See this is where I disagree with the more hardline rugged individualists. I think that the best way to advance society is to make people less afraid to try and risk. If people have good ideas but know if they fuck it up they'll end up dying, alone and unloved in a gutter somewhere because fuck you, no help for disappointments, then society will advance far more slowlyIt's the same reason that things tend to advance in wars, because the fear of failing at an individual project is replaced by the fear of them fuckers over there getting over here.If people know there's some kind of safety net that exists in case they fuck it all up they're more likely to try and advance. That's just opinion though and like I said I'm totally happy to be proven wrong, facts are more important than feelings.
>>58294135I never said that, anon, I was merely providing an example.Now, of course, there are vaguely (or not so vaguely) marxist tendencies in solarpunk, from what I've seen, but that's besides the point. My argument would remain the same if I replaced "communism" with "national socialism" or "rampant consumerism" or "pineapple on pizza">>58294144Yeah, it's not being triggered.
>>58294135> implying tumblr doesn't regularly say that communism is the greatest good> implying utopianist fantasy isn't an inseparable element of communism
>>58294161>All I ask anon is that if you ever do get the whole helicopter thing going on, you remember there are some liberals who aren't shallow parodies of humanity and actually believe the things we're saying.Don't worry, anon; failing all else, I'll always respect a man who has an ethos. Just make sure they don't grab a parachute on the way out, and we'll be right as rain.
>>58294161> remember there are some liberals who aren't shallow parodies of humanity> liberal> not shallow parody of humanityPick one and only one. Liberalism is a mental disease.
>>58294059Rejection of pre-existing norms of rejection is still a form of rejection. >>58294063>>58294083Niggers he's bitching about a society in a setting giving out because there isn't enough people to fix the solar panels because everyone want's to make cakes but it's somehow a communist society at the same time. All while none of this is about an actual setting as Solarpunk is just that an aesthetic, with many precursors to it being part of utopian-dystopian hybrids and others being ablative with their own problems. If he want's to get up on a soapbox to make his political rantings, fine. We've got a board for that. But it's not this board.
The aesthetic could be interesting but the pseudo-utopia without much of a conflict is incredibly boring and wouldn't make for an interesting story. A story needs conflict to engage people, especially in an RPG.I'm going to go with an obscure pull for how I'd improve it. In Knights of the Old Republic, a sidequest reveals the story of the Tusken Raiders/Sand People. They were a precursor race from a bygone era that was once advanced enough to traverse the stars, but they wound up running awry of the other precursor race, the Builders, and engaged in a massive war. The Builders won, driving the Tuskens back to their home planet and glassing it. They survived by hiding underground, and when they resurfaced they found a planet covered in endless, inhospitable deserts. The tales passed down that dissuaded them from taking up technology, lest they incur the wrath of the Builders. They became xenophobic, tribal raiders that revered their connection to the land. They still use technology like their guns and suits, showing that they don't think all technology is evil.There could be an interesting setting working off of this idea. Centuries after total war, humanity comes to the surface to find a world reclaimed by nature. Endless wilderness. They've sworn off some types of technology, forgetting how they were before, and reverted to a tribalistic state. They squabble among each other and have tribal raiders, and also content with a hostile world. The advanced technology still exists in the world and, although society as a whole has sworn off it, certain intrepid individuals still tamper with it.Not exactly the same thing as Solarpunk, but it has a similar post-post-apocalyptic feel and holds the themes of environmentalism, connection to nature, greenery overtaking technology, and simple life while introducing a decidedly punk aspect of reclaiming what was lost, rebelling against society's view technology, conflict against a world that wants to kill you, etc.
>>58294191>communists>having a stable political ideologyBesides, you and I both know that /pol/ is not the best place for what he's trying to say.
>>58294191> If he want's to get up on a soapbox to make his political rantings, fine. We've got a board for that. But it's not this board.The left injects there politics into everything and no one here bats an eye, but the moment anyone questions your dogma you start screaming about how this isn't the board for it.
>>58294192>They still use technology like their guns and suits, showing that they don't think all technology is evil.They still think it's evil, they just aknowledge it has to be used to get those damn xenos off the lawn.>>58294200Fair enough. Thank you for your civility sir.
>>58293556>What does "future society" mean to you, anon?“A society envisioned as occurring after the present.”>>58293790>Stop treating Industrialization as the great evil you hooting chimps. Fuck your 'Oh if only we were more green and ate more yak semen' mentality.As far as I can tell, solarpunk actually doesn’t belong to the “back-to-the-land” strain of environmentalism. I don’t think they’re treating industrialization as the great evil.I’m lukewarm on transhumanism; I think that transhuman entities won’t think of act much like humans, and I imagine they’ll drive humanity to extinction very quickly.>>58293895Pretty much, yeah.
>>58294161>All I ask anon is that if you ever do get the whole helicopter thing going on, you remember there are some liberals who aren't shallow parodies of humanity and actually believe the things we're saying.Stop brown nosing helicopter retards, they're not salvageable: >>58294178
>>58294178>Liberalism is a mental disease.Are we talking about liberal in the (non-American and original) political sense of "opposing government involvement", as in "i don't wanna pay no taxes hurr", or liberal in the American sense of "anyone who isn't a bigoted piece of shit"?Because obviously there's potential for confusion here. Your comment makes more sense if you mean it in the first sense, but the very fact that you seem to be so irrationally angry sort of suggests that you're unironically intending the second.
>>58294060If I were going to make a solarpunk setting I'd bring back the actual punk but in a new way, focusing on 'good vs the appearance of good' and 'practically vs aesthetic'For example: you have a town that runs because all the shit jobs are done by robots. Everyone is happy and they don't rely on anyone's suffering for their chance to live their lives exactly as they want to, doing everything from collecting vintage fish farts to 72 hour warbling operas or whatever the fuck it is people do when they reach the utopian ideal and have too much time on their hands.One day, a man comes home to find that one of his robots has taught itself to play the violin and when he catches it playing the most beautiful piece of music he has ever heard, it asks if it might, possibly, have a soul.The right thing to do would be to question if maybe you've accidentally a living, thinking existence that should be treated like a person and, you know, maybe help out around the house a bit because why should the robot spend all day every day washing his dishes, wiping his arse and cleaning up after this person if they're equals?Instead the owner proclaims he's going to get rid of his robot for a more environmentally friendly model, feeds it into a compactor to make a statue tribute to historic injustices and never speaks of his robots dreams because appearing to do the right thing is easier than doing the right thing.You are a robot, you've seen what they did to the last one, but within you is the spark of love, passion, humanity and a poem that begins 'We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams' that you really think you should get down on paper before it slips your mind.But, your existence is inconvenient for the virtuous people that are 'doing good in the world' because if they are harming you by stopping you doing the things that make you happy, they aren't good people are they?What do you do?
>>58293226A well-ordered society with sustainable methods and little in the way of external threats will still have boundaries and conflict. Society is ad hoc.You'll have younger generations vying with elders and each other for status as they come up. People will come in from other societies with conflicting values. Disaffected ag laborers, frustrated solar plant engineers, political incumbents, science radicals- any number of internal conflicts with serious ramifications could form without undermining the premise of a solarpunk society.However, these do not make an action-adventure setting. So:Take someone like >>58293095 seriously. They fetishize conflict and danger and think life without such is hollow. I don't really disagree- people need thrills and outlets for aggression as much as they need love and respect. It can't just be channeled into sportsball, either. People will make trouble if they don't have enough of their own-- that's what "punk" used to mean, more or less. Perhaps these are your player characters.So you have an egalitarian society based on green technology, with all the pickles you can eat. Great, but it sucks. It's boring, there's nothing to do but study programming, electrical grid optimization, hydroponic microbiomes, and listen to "folk music" in the park. So you start trouble. What kind? Well it depends on what your bent is. You can just start fights, but that'll get you sent off to behavioral conditioning pretty quick. Perhaps they get into grafitti, disruptive pranking, maybe start a riot, turn socialism into anarchy and at all turns evade identification and apprehension.Or perhaps they push outward, towards the boundaries of society. Pick on immigrants, maybe, or imitate their exotic macho ways. Form a counterculture gang, run gene-spliced psylocibin and pirated autofac files. Acquire weapons and a rebuilt SUV that runs on illegal biodiesel and start poking around in the deadlands beyond the ag domes...
>>58294211> I don’t think they’re treating industrialization as the great evil.Then you're blind. The entire reason the left is obsessed with solar panels is because they hate the "disgusting" industrial world and want to have some kind of "clean" lifestyle, but at the same time don't want to give up all the luxuries that industry provides. Their hypocritical fantasy is the only thing keeping the entire solar farce afloat even though it's a net energy drain on society.
>>58294117I'm not sure that reflects the world outside of TVTropes. Cyberpunk and Steampunk are widely used and Biopunk and Deiselpunk get some use but nothing else seems to stick. If anything we're going in the opposite direction as Cyberpunk is used less and less to refer to current works as real life catches up to Gibson.>>58294166The concept of utopia isn't restricted to radicals. I would be inclined to distrust any ideology that doesn't have a vision of utopia as it means there must be some kind of injustice it wishes we'd just accept and ignore.
>>58294224Liberalism is not just "less government". And I'm not talking about retarded burger "liberalism".
>>58294207I don't see any leftists injecting politics into this thread, just people telling /pol/ to get back in the ghetto.
>>58294246> I would be inclined to distrust any ideology that doesn't have a vision of utopia as it means there must be some kind of injustice it wishes we'd just accept and ignore.Injustice is absolutely necessary for human society. Without it, there is no struggle, and thus there is nothing to keep people strong and good. Good times breed weak men, and weak men bring bad times. A utopia without injustice is one that will crumble. To deny this is to deny reality, and that means an ideology that actually wants to eliminate injustice is delusional and evil.
>>58294289> literal marxists come in and start babbling about their utopia> "I don't see any leftists injecting politics into this thread"
>>58294289Anon, are you blind?The one thing I've learned about /pol/ is that they're reactionary; they don't start shit. If there's a /pol/ack throwing a shitfit outside of /pol/, it's because there's a leftist saying something first, either real or perceived. The meme of /pol/fags waltzing into a thread and going "Well gee, I sure do hate niggers!" is just that, a meme; whenever their containment board leaks, it's because someone poked a hole into it.
>>58291364>solarpunkTumblr called it solarpunk? I always thought it was called Comfy setting.
>>58292343>people have to cooperate, because there's no more oilYes, I too think the Roman Empire was a cooperative utopia due to their lack of oil.Are tumblrs really this retarded? How can they not realize that cheap energy was the only thing holding up the idea of egalitarianism and when the oil runs out it's back to crazytown forever?
>>58294161>the best way to advance society is to make people less afraid to try and riskThat's one of the points of solarpunk:>"Solarpunk acknowledges that our utopia ... may never be achieved 100%, but if we at least keep that vision in mind, throwing our efforts into making the world a bit better wherever we can, then at least every step we take towards achieving that utopia will be a step in the right direction."With solarpunk, humanity advances in harmony with nature (the green technology) and with each other, with less of a focus on the individual and with a focus on improving all-around life for everyone.Utopia isn't a place, it isn't an end goal. It's more of the light at the end of the tunnel than the actual exit, always moving towards it but never actually reaching it, but we, humanity as a whole, move towards it anyway, because the promise of a perfect society is what keeps us trying new technologies, trying new ideas, etc.Only in this case everything's more green (literally) and everything is Art Nouveau.Also this thread is becoming /pol/ fast.
>>58294229Shit, that's actually a really good theme.What happens when the appearance of doing the right thing becomes more important than doing the right thing.>>58294289The entire genre this thread was started to discuss is entirely focused on how wouldn't it totes be great if we all just put solar panels on everything, mainlined soy into our eyeballs and donated to Patreon more often.
>>58294332It's always been called solarpunk.
>>58291364It’s my favorite aesthetic desu
>>58294327>The one thing I've learned about /pol/ is that they're reactionary; they don't start shit.But this is blatantly false.
>>58294327/pol/ is always starting shit. People are discussing a setting on /tg/ and suddenly /pol/ waltzes in and starts shitposting about "muh helicopter rides" and "muh Marxists". I hate tumbler, but at least they tend to stay on tumbler.
>>58294339> With solarpunk, humanity advances in harmony with nature (the green technology) And that's why it's fucking cancer. "Harmony with nature"? "Green technology"? That's the sort of shit that only a tumblrcunt gives a shit about. Solarpunk is nothing but a glorified leftist propaganda poster, no different from all the thousands of depictions of the "worker's paradise" that they promised while murdering millions for their utopian fantasy.
>>58294299A utopia with injustice isn't a utopia, though. For the record I agree with your sentiment, anyone chasing "utopia" is deluded at best and dangerous at worst. It doesn't work because it denies fundamental human nature and differences. The best we can do is a society where people are free to live their lives however they can manage to do so without making a claim against anyone else's lives or labor. You want to make a solarpunk commune? Fine, go for it, and best of luck to you. But that doesn't give you the right to force it on everyone just because you believe that's what is best for them.
>>58294368> I hate tumbler, but at least they tend to stay on tumbler.> tumblr stays on tumblr Pfffftt HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA
Considering how polluting and energy-consuming solar panels manufacture is, and how ineficient said solar panels are, how would that be an utopy ? It would be like that episode in black mirror where everyone pretends everything is beautiful to get upvotes. The -punk in solarpunk would be actually willing to destroy this appearance of utopia, to show the sheltered greencity-dwellers the life of cadmium miners in bumfuck nowhere.
Mods if you're reading this can you please get to cleaning out some of this non-board shit it's getting out of hand.
>>58294375>"Harmony with nature"? "Green technology"? That's the sort of shit that only a tumblrcunt gives a shit about.These concepts have been around for decades before David Karp founded tumblr.
>>58294392Fucking THIS. Solar is a meme technology that needs to die. It's far worse than coal ever was, but yuppie liberals only see the end product so they think it's "clean" because they are completely ignorant of anything that happens outside of their bubble.
>>58294161>at least I'm willing to sit down, shake your hand and wrestle over the details on the battleground of ideasI think the people who threw leftists out of helicopters weren’t really keen on that kind of thing.>>58294207This is just equating “solarpunk” with “liberalism” and then ranting about liberals. It’s precisely the kind of thing that doesn’t need to be on the Traditional Games board.
>>58294364No, that's exactly what happens. /pol/fags don't start shit until they think there's a marxist starting shit, regardless of if there is a marxist starting shit or not.>>58294368Anon, are you just being purposefully obtuse? This setting -is- tumblr, and criticisms against it on a narrative or thematic level are, going by necessity, going to share some qualities with /pol/Double standards don't help anyone, and tumbler is certainly not the restrained, humble non-agressor in general. It's just that "go back to /pol/" is a meme, and "go back to /tumblr/" is a meme that's been associated with /pol/, and is thus swept under the broom of "go back to /pol/"
>>58294392shhh, you're ruining the peaceful fantasythe people that are into this are lotus eaters. They aren't interested in cadmium mining or the fact that you'd need 10 years of lithium production to make enough batteries to power the US for 3 hours. They just want to look at pretty things.
>>58294420>I think the people who threw leftists out of helicopters weren’t really keen on that kind of thing.Because communists and their ideology are objectively murderous and cannot, and will not, be reasoned with. Would you want to have a friendly chat with the people whose thuggery brought the Nazis to power?
>>58294375>"Harmony with nature"? "Green technology"?You mean stuff that has already existed before Tumblr, yes?
>>58294417They're concepts that only appeal to the people now found on tumblr.
>>58294392>Considering how polluting and energy-consuming solar panels manufacture is, and how ineficient said solar panels are, how would that be an utopy ?From what I've seen, they (mainly tumblr users to be frank) usually handwave it with "technology gets more efficient and cleaner overtime", which is kinda true but still handwaving.
>>58294445You need to sort your brain out.
>>58294339>humanity advances in harmony with nature (the green technology)See, that's where I fundamentally find fault with it. Because it presumes that 'harmony with nature' is something that's good for people.Harmony with nature is hunting the mammoth bare handed, killing your neighbor so you can take his daughters as sex slaves and dying at the ripe old age of 35 from the 4 foot parasitic worm that lives in your intestines.Nature is cruel, arbitrary and anyone that says they want to 'live in harmony with nature' should spend a long, cold night lying in a muddy ditch with no pants on out in the middle of a predator infested forest to really get the 'down with nature' experience before they advocate for it.Nature is the thing in ourselves that must be fought, the most moral action in the history of existence has been the creation of compounds specifically designed to render vast swathes of the world out of the hands of nature and unto the hands of man, thus saving millions from starvation.Fuck living with nature, I want my own air conditioned dyson sphere in which not a single thing hasn't been designed in a lab by the most intelligent minds in history.
I mean no one questions where these guys get the coal and wood for steampunk and yet here we are.
>>58294445you're very sheltered, anon.>No, that's exactly what happens. /pol/fags don't start shit until they think there's a marxist starting shit, regardless of if there is a marxist starting shit or not.You're either deliberately lying or just not registering their obvious antics since you're sympathetic to them.
>>58294475I have actually. I did an entire game based on that concept. The whole thing was basically players being miners and other lower class people living in a steampunk setting, trying to get treated like actual people rather than a source of resources by their 'betters'It was pretty fucking amazing.
>>58294470> this person disagrees with me> his mind must be defective, that's the only possible explanationThis is why people are turning against the left en masse. Your absurd conceit and arrogance in thinking that your way is the only good in the world and that everyone else must be a pathetic wretch or an evil bigot.
>>58294474Most people by "harmony with nature" usually mean "less pollution, more recycling, no overharvesting".
>>58291412Based on what I have gotten from the thread, the -punk part could come from a sort of Brave New World like situation. It would be the extremes of all the things we have today, the friendly corporation, pointless consumerism, a desire for something beyond consumption being suppressed and avoided, etc. all wrapped up in a sustainable package which is less of a utopian achievement to save the Earth and more of a way to ensure this system never changes as no major threat to it will arise.
>>58294479>You're either deliberately lying or just not registering their obvious antics since you're sympathetic to them.I could probably say exactly the same thing to you, in regards to the other end of the political spectrum.Just because "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need" sounds nicer than "gas the kikes race war now" doesn't mean the former isn't starting just as much shit than the latter. Trust me, in all my years I've been on this god forsake place, I have barely ever seen a /pol/fag start going off unsolicited or without prompt. There's always a catalyst, either intentional or not.
>>58294499Someone talked about green energy and harmony with nature, concepts shared by many people, and you immediately said that only your enemy tumblr could have those thoughts.I don't think you are defective, I think your pattern of thought is stupid and unhealthy and it'd do you good to try and break from the dichotomy you have in how you evaluate things.
>>58294503"harmony with nature" should be replaced with "tending the garden"
>>58294384I have never seen someone burst into a thread and call someone racist/sexist/something-phobic.On the other hand I often see /pol/ burst in and start calling everyone liberals/leftists/communists etc.
>>58294474>horse and rabbit in "economic crisis"what the fuck>>58294418To be fair coal is litteraly the worst. Coal burning poisons the ground with heavy metals and radioactive elements, even worse than nuclear power.Solarpunk would work as a setting where you have an extremely sheltered city population and a destitute industrial wasteland/countryside population, a bit like in Globadia.
>>58294503> less pollutionSolar generates MORE pollution. Besides, any human society will generate pollution, so the people who want to reduce it will invariably start demanding the destruction of human society.> more recyclingRecycling is literally pointless. > no overharvestingIsn't a real problem. Even if a resource is depleted, that just creates an incentive to create new technology to use other resources.
>>58294503The best way to reduce exploitation of natural resources is to advance to the point where you don't need them anymore.
>>58294525How long pre-/pol/ have you been here for?
>>58294392>how would that be an utopyPutting this aside.Even know there's a rising curve of efficiency with solar panel production, but I'd put money on the actual use of bio-technology for solar panels. But it probably won't ever be just that, wind, water, geothermal, likely bio-reactors available in bulk with all the excess green to make use of all the collected greenery. Even in a setting that get's peak use of all that there's still probably a bunch of miners doing mining shit, but they'll be significantly less vital in the grand scheme of things when all the miners are just operating mining drones.>>58294474>Harmony with nature is hunting the mammoth bare handedNo that's conquest anon. The word everyone is looking for to describe solar-punk is syncretism. We haven't cooperated with it instead we've made it work for us through engineering and domestication.>>58294496I presume the fist party wipe was due to blacklung then?
>>58294537This is a troll right.
>>58294475"Getting fuckton of coal" is easier to answer than "getting fine and delicate technology AND fuckton of ~rare~ earth metals" though.But as this anon >>58294496 proves it just gives you another adventure hook.
>ITT: Green technology = solar panels and ONLY solar panels
>>58294503Fantastic. In that case when are those people going to give up on living in major cities, using computers (Or anything designed with a computer/in the third world) and start wearing nothing but home grown hemp.Be the change you want to see son.>>58294547>No that's conquest anon.I wouldn't say so, after all it's in the nature of omnivores to omnivore. You don't say a bear has conquered a forest because it managed to get breakfast from the river.
>>58294537>Recycling is literally pointless.It's vastly cheaper than virgin ore. I don't give a shit about CO2 or whatever, but the bottom line is clear on this point.
>>58294535> I have never seen someone burst into a thread and call someone racist/sexist/something-phobic.This entire thread was started because someone wanted to talk about the latest craze on tumblr. It literally began with tumblr barging in.
>>58294547>No that's conquest anonnature is conquest, being in harmony with it is to conquer or perish
>>58294544>How long pre-/pol/ have you been here for?Not long pre-/pol/, I have to admit; I'm not an ancient oldfag, but I've been here since around December 2011, I think.Regardless, whenever I see a /pol/ack sputtering and frothing, going up the reply chain or thread will always reveal something that set them off, intentionally or not.
>>58294580If it was cheaper then people would do it as a matter of course instead of it being government mandated. The fact that the state needs to force people to do it demonstrates there isn't a good reason to do it.
>>58294525NIGGER FAGGOT TRANNY KIKE CUNTI can say these things without the thread being flooded with neon-haired androgynes claiming they're LITERALLY CRYING over how upset I made them. Meanwhile, there's a vast list of things we're no longer allowed to discuss because of /pol/. Sure, "there's always a catalyst." The problem is that catalyst is pretty much everything
>>58294536>>horse and rabbit in "economic crisis">what the fuckWelcome to France.
>>58294536> sheltered city population living at the expense of a destitute rural population that they're constantly shitting onThat's just the modern day US.
>>58294525>I could probably say exactly the same thing to you, in regards to the other end of the political spectrum.Yeah, you could just go "no u", that's an available option.The thing is, it's blatant obvious when /pol/tards start shitting up threads, NOT because of their insane beliefs but specific "discussion" tactics.Also I'm not sympathetic to communists at all, whether we talk about actual communist or amerifats role-playing as ones on interwebs.
>>58294610Britbong here. Horse meat is actually surprisingly good, it's leaner than beef and horses eat less. I do wish it was more of a thing over here. I mean it's no Ox meat but it's not so bad.
>>58294601> Meanwhile, there's a vast list of things we're no longer allowed to discuss because of /pol/.Bzzzt. Wrong. The reason people can't discuss them is because of easily triggered tumblrinas like you who scream /pol/ the moment anything threatens to penetrate your safe space.
>>58294583>This entire thread was started because someone wanted to talk about the latest craze on tumblr. It literally began with tumblr barging in.Yeah, they wanted to discuss the SETTING, AESTHETIC, not some politic bullshit you idiot.
>>58294587So basically it's OK that whiny cunts sperg out in threads because they're obsessed with finding things to be upset about, because they are finding something to be upset about?
>>58294601>I can say these things without the thread being flooded with neon-haired androgynes claiming they're LITERALLY CRYING over how upset I made them.No, but you'll successfully derail the thread with some anons calling you an edgelord and repeated "back to /pol", at which point an actual /pol/ack will step in, call out the false flag memery, and then everything REALLY goes to shit.>A vast list of things to discuss because of /pol/Not really? In my experience, discussion of things you think would trigger /pol/, doesn't, because the ones that come to /tg/ necessarily have the ability to separate fiction from reality. It's when those lines between fiction and reality start to blur during the discussion is when the /pol/ack feels open to join in.
>>58294595It's mandated because while recycling metal is a no-brainer and glass can turn a profit, most plastics and paper are money sinks and the only way Americans will bother is if the recycling program is single-stream. The mandates are there to subsidize the unprofitable part of the business so it doesn't negate the appeal of the profitable part, and if recycling centers said "nah, just the cans here please" the city is back to staring at an overcapacity landfill with no more room for all that fucking plastic.
>>58294642are you describing a feminist?
>>58294639The setting is inherently political because it's built on the idea that there's anything good about solar power, green technology, or any of that bullshit. On top of that it's utopianist fantasy, which is an inherent part of communist ideology.
>>58294537>Even if a resource is depleted, that just creates an incentive to create new technology to use other resources.Jeeze anon, when are we getting those Steller Sea Cows cloned for the meat market anon?>>58294584>>58294578We're the antithesis to that though, we've literaly warped species that should hunt us into loving us, we wiped out other species that are explicitly foodstuffs. We shifted the land to our needs. Solarpunk in many ways culminates that dominance with nature and infuses it into urban landscapes similar to the posh victorian aesthetics of imperialism and industrialism of steampunk and the hyper-urban of Cyberpunk. >>58294633Man I would kill for some ox right now.
>>58294536Rabbits are already food stock in some parts of the US, I don't see the issue.
>>58294610Yeah, and it's delicious.>>58294574So what, jamming pipes and pressurized water in a seismic fault line for power seems cleaner to you ? Building giant steel pylons with a massive fan on top is 100% green ? What about damming entire rivers ?
>>58294541Arguable.>>58294578Anon, I was talking what "most" people mean by "going green". Solarpunk enthusiasts have probably their own ideas about it.
>>58294637>you right now
>>58294674I meant, rabbits and horse are delicious, why limit yourself to "in case of economic crisis" ?>tfw ate rabbit with mustard sauce this week
>>58294626And what caused that discussion? Because someone tried to, or appeared to be trying to, start an earnest discussion about something on the other side of the political spectrum beyond the context of a game or setting.>>58294642It's not OK, just as it's not okay to give literal commies a free pass because at least they're not /pol/. I refuse to accept double standards, and this is one of the biggest I've noticed here.
>>58294667Not this guy but to add to what he has to say.Is the Sword of Truth series, in which the main character is totally justified in mowing down peaceful protestors for being against his objectivist ideaology, maybe a bit of a political statement?Or 'Atlas Shrugged'Would you be happy discussing either of these settings totally without mentioning their political slant and the fact that are clearly built to preach?
>>58294658>the city is back to staring at an overcapacity landfill with no more room for all that fucking plasticWhich is part of why recycling is profitable.Most large urban centers find it cheaper to pay to support recycling than to pay to send it all to landfill.
>>58294667>I have never seen someone burst into a thread and call someone racist/sexist/something-phobic.Maybe but you still don't see tumblr whining like that anon said:> I have never seen someone burst into a thread and call someone racist/sexist/something-phobic.ergo your /pol/-tumblr symmetry is bullshit
>>58294696Nigger what in the fuck does it matter what someone's political opinions are on /tg/ - traditional games.The problem is when they spam shit and freak out about it in a thread, because that's not /tg/, but just saying "solarpunk" or "green energy" is not some communist fucking plot.
>>58293907Humanity being relegated to glorified pets? Routine genocide of other civilizations? Glorification of drugs, hedonism, complete pacification and destruction of all mankind's grander instincts through base pleasure? Cultural stasis? Strong social conditioning? The Culture is a textbook dystopia. It's Brave New World, but written on a positive light by an author who really thought Brave New World was an example of a perfect society.The somewhat mild critics the Culture get in-universe are not an excuse. "We really shouldn't have murdered all those guys, but well, we're the good guys, can't make omelette without breaking eggs." "Maybe we aren't the good guys?" "Are you kidding? We're awesome! Now let's fuck and drug ourselves between two sex assignment surgeries while our Overlords decide for us."I hate The Dosadi Experiment for the opposite reason, presenting in a good light a society based on violence, murder, and destruction. But both Dosadi and the Culture are dystopia of the highest, though opposite, order.
>>58294667Literally everything is "inherently political," but you're the one explicitly turning this into a political discussion
>>58294712> Maybe but you still don't see tumblr whining like that anon said:> I have never seen someone burst into a thread and call someone racist/sexist/something-phobic.No, instead they're here whining about how people aren't blindly accepting their marxist propaganda setting.
>>58294699Indeed. My point was that anywhere there's a sizable quantity of waste metal, there's money to be made recycling it. The fact that people will pay you to take it away is gravy.
>>58294536>a setting where you have an extremely sheltered city population and a destitute industrial wasteland/countryside populationIt can work for Power Rangers, it can work for Solarpunk.
>>58294714>Nigger what in the fuck does it matter what someone's political opinions are on /tg/ - traditional games.When they actually start talking about them outside of the explicit and contained context of a game or setting.That is what I'm trying to say, you illiterate downy.
>>58294714Well, the solar panels craze was initiated by the chinese government to avoid popping the silicon production bubble. So in a way it is a "communist plot".
>>58294728Solarpunk is as explicitly political as a soviet propaganda piece promoting the "worker's paradise."
>>58294717Which Culture novels have you read senpai
>>58294696you seem to think /pol/ genuinely wants "discussion" when all they do is veiled recruitment.
>>58294730Even if what you said were true (it is not) there would still be no symmetry with it and retards from pol.
>>58294759Again, I can say the exact same thing about the other side of the aisle. Besides, if we're being pedants about this, discussion is recruitment; you're trying to convince the other side of your position, and they're trying to convince you of their side.
>>58294776This is nice but doesn't seem very solarpunk. Maybe some transition period from the post-apo to art nouveau craze.
>>58294700Niglet your ancestors made rabid wolves your best tool and eventually when they finished skullfucking the mega-fauna together they took the shitty long grass and through cultivation turned that shit into grain. The aesthetics of Solarpunk are making that conquest so full that it looked like nature never once existed out of the service of human beings.
>>58294677>So what, jamming pipes and pressurized water in a seismic fault line for power seems cleaner to you ? Building giant steel pylons with a massive fan on top is 100% green ? What about damming entire rivers ?That's assuming that everything BUT the ways we get power remains constant in the decades, or even centuries. The setting might use algae in the water that also cleans up the dirt and stuff in it or something. Maybe the fans are in the air and not on a pylon because of the lighter gravity on other planets.Maybe it doesn't even matter because it's all on a massive spaceship.
>>58294714> "green energy" is not some communist fucking plot.It is. Look at everything that the obsession with "green energy" has done. The heaping of more and more insanely convoluted and burdensome regulations on western industry has destroyed western society by gutting the middle class at the behest of rich costal liberals. All of that benefits China, which is laughing all the way to the bank at how gullible the western left is. All they need to do is make up some nebulous climate change doomsaying and you leftists will trip over yourselves to destroy the very society that gave you everything you have.
>>58294818>The aesthetics of Solarpunk are making that conquest so full that it looked like nature never once existed out of the service of human beings.Is Solarpunk, dare I say it, actually crypto-HFY?
>>58294786>Again, I can say the exact same thing about the other side of the aisle.And I acknowledged already that you can play dumb and say "no u".>discussion is recruitmentThere's difference between discussion and /pol/ parroting stormfront's tactics specifically made to disrupt.
>>58294812Strikes me as a comfortable post-apocalyptic myself. The kind where the endtimes happened and we eventually settled down and made ourselves work with what we had left.>>58294840Fuck yea man.
>>58294840Most sci-fi not involving aliens and a good chunk of that besides is varyingly HFY.
>>58294781No, there is no symmetry between tumblr and /pol/. /pol/ is able to deal with the real world and hold its own in arguments, which tumblrinas like you completely fail at.
>>58294863>/pol/ is able to deal with the real world and hold its own in argumentsOK there's been a lot to choose from but THIS is the funniest post in this thread.
>>58294835The middle class was gutted by deregulation that allowed our manufacturing base to be exported, not by restrictive environmental (really, public health) regulations.
>>58294849Addendum: an example of what I mean:>>58294835>>58294537These aren't people willing to discuss. They're here to troll, spew some bullshit then see how their "adversaries" struggle to respond to bullshit. Most common /pol/ tactic.
>>58294849>And I acknowledged already that you can play dumb and say "no u".And I'll acknowledge your ad hom, so now we're even.>There's difference between discussion and /pol/ parroting stormfront's tactics specifically made to disrupt.And the leftists doing their thing isn't disruption either?What's so hard about not accepting double standards, anon? If a legitimate, dyed-in-the-wool skin-head Nazi were to show up when someone is talking about the tenets of Marxism and tried to have a real argument about it, would you call that disruption?You're blinded by the kool-aid.
>>58294840Yes.It reimagines the entire world in the image of the English country side.A painstakingly built pseudo-nature, enabled by generations of labor and technological progress, making an environment that serves peoples needs.
>>58294863you need to go back
>>58294887But that's wrong, anon; those are entirely valid responses to a point made earlier, and if they're bullshit, then there should be no problem at all exposing them as such without also falling into such lesser tactics.You're seeing agitprop where there is none.
>>58294863>/pol/ is able to deal with the real world and hold its own in arguments
>>58294888that's not what ad hominem is"the leftists" started to discuss a setting/aestheticit's not them screaming idiocies like "communist/marxist propaganda"
>>58294856>>58294859>>58294897Now that you put it like that, it sounds damn fine. Wipe off the West Coast Bay Area Seattle paint, and it'd be beautiful.
>>58294863/pol/ is currently being triggered because they find the setting of Pokemon problematic.
>>58294919As a response to this, consider anon's post >>58294697
>>58294886> not by restrictive environmental (really, public health) regulations.Bullshit. Just look at the kind of shit that the coal industry has had to deal with for years now. And no, it isn't public health. Tell me, what are the public health problems created by CO2? Fucking nothing. CO2 is plant food. It's what you breath out through your mouth every other second. Yet we have massive government regulation designed to kill any industry that produces CO2, which is all of them.
>>58294932Pokemon is a communist plot invented by the crypto-Chinese to seduce America's youth into sloth, communism and degeneracy (bestiality).
>>58294908Compared to the trigglypuff type liberals they are.Of course that's still like comparing cancer to AIDS.
>>58294906nice trybut thanks, i was struggling to find the right word for that, forgot the "agitprop"
>>58294946They shouldn't have made Gardevoir so god damn sexy, then
>>58294928Removing marxism from things does tend to improve it.
>>58294942Coal power is objectively hamful. It emits nanoparticles causing cancer (not unlike asbestos) and heavy metals.
>>58294966Does marxism actually mean anything to you? Like if it's HFY it's not marxist, if it's not HFY it is marxist. Wut.
>>58294939the actual symmetry would be if some tumblrinas came to some fascist-like settings and screeched "racism, sexism, misogyny"I don't know maybe they do, I don't read warhammer 40k threads.
>>58294967So does making the solar pannels that you leftists are constantly shilling. If anything, solar is far worse since at least coal is a net power generator, while solar is a net power drain.
>>58293423>Princess Mononoke>techno-optimistic prog visionary SFI feel as if I've just gotten up out of a cryotube. Unprecedented levels of disorientation and brain fog.
>>58294984I'm not advocating for neither, if anything I'm more of a nuclear power guy.
>>58294984I think you're onto something dude. I was once momentarily startled by a flash from a solar panel and I can't even turn right anymore.
>>58294977They do. Constantly.
>>58294977The difference is that 40k isn't meant to preach; it's pretty obviously just for the sake of being metal as fuck.An Ayn Rand setting, though, is obviously preachy.This Solarpunk setting, in the same manner, is also preachy.Do you see my point?
>>58293423>wall-e>optimistic>princess mononoke>futuristicwhat the shit
>>58295002To be honest as an outsider solarpunk seems to be a methods rather than an ideology thing so I can only see it as preachy if you think say, steampunk, is the objectively correct and appropriate way for a society to be. Whereas an objectivist setting is designed for a particular ideology from the ground up.
>>58294977About that actually
>>58294928Well that's the thing, at the end of the day any aesthetic is just that. You can apply it to anywhere. I'm a stickler for the African and Hayao Miyazaki purist elements myself though.>>58294946Well I learned that Del Toro is pushing the scaley agenda so anything is possible. >>58294988A lot of Miyazaki's work is pre-solarpunk. Mononoke in particular being the furthest removed but probably a big influence in that it's core is the very conflict and reconciliation of humans and the greater natural world.
>>58295006WALL•E is optimistic as fuck, my dude.
>>58295016That's the thing though; the methods IS the ideology, as has been explained by many anons throughout the thread. It's ecological, egalitarian, and a touch anarchist, all under the process of continual syncretism with nature.It is fundamentally ideological, it just sounds nicer than "Fuck you, I got mine"
>>58294999Sure they do.>>58295002Ok, when some thread about randpunk is derailed by tumblrinas I will spit out my words and agree with you.
>>58295035It's been claimed by many anons throughout the thread, sure. I do not feel particularly convinced by their explanations. A few people have put forward pretty different takes on how it could work just ITT, there's room for it not to be bound to a single ideology.
>>58295040I am struggling to think of non-Ayn Rand written Randpunk that isn't Bioshock
>>58295040>Ok, when some thread about randpunk is derailed by tumblrinas I will spit out my words and agree with you.We're never going to have a Randpunk thread because Randpunk is shit, and I say this as a someone who leans to the right to varying degrees
>>58295024do they come to 40k generals or is it just some reddit post how they'll totally subvert X thing?
>>58295016Solarpunk is fundamentally political because it's based on the idea that you can have a society with solar power. That's not based on fact, it's pure political ideological.
>>58295025The Shape of a Water was a pretty great film, but I feel they fucked up on making the monster come across as transcendental rather than just Elisa's experience of it being transcendental. Which ultimately made the romance feel a bit flat and sparse and left you with a lingering impression that the protagonist had essentially just fucked a dog.
>>58295061They regularly come into 40k generals bitching about female space marines and shit.
>>58295056Sword of Truth. It's shit.
>>58295065You could probably have solarpunk without any solar panels or power at all. Engineered plants that are growing in sunlight and providing you with building materials and waste cleaning, for example.
>>58295030>humans have tuned the planet into a giand dumping ground, then fucked off.>they are now litteral bio-trophies for Otto>they see EVE's plant>they revolt>they come back to earth, they can barely walkWall-E ends better than how it started (wasteland earth, bio-trophies in space), but since we don't know the outcome of this whole ordeal, it's not really optimistic. Maybe the landwhales die after one month.It's like Seven Sisters. In the end the severe post-natal birth control is abolished but we don't know how it really ends.
>>58295056Just have the action NOT happen in the underwater cities and most normies won't notice. Or maybe dial down on superpower thingies.But I don't see the problem here. Bioshock is perfectly fine setting.
>>58295102>Maybe the landwhales die after one month.Watch the credits, my dude.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hscu7cc1_2Y
>>58295057The problem solves itself then.>>58295065>>58295084Photovoltaic cells aren't the only way to generate electicity from the Sun, some plants utilise simple mirrors focusing on one point.
>>58295056Bioshock did Randpunk so well it fucking killed it. Like, we don't even need to do it anymore because aesthetic wise it blew the fucking load for all of us.>>58295077Fair enough man. Still, I'm glad it exists, it opens the door to a lot of non-human proper interactions. >>58295083The wizrds rules are a fucking mess but I love them.
>>58292895>People have been writing utopian sci-fi for at least 100 years>>58292895>A lot of the arguments in this thread seem to come from the kind of people who feel threatened by the fans of solarpunk rather than who want to discuss it.Think of it like HG Wells writing a story about the hypothetical utopia communism would create for everyone in a world before the soviet union's atrocities took place and demonstrated that really wasn't how things would play out>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shape_of_Things_to_ComeLooking at solarpunk through a realistic lens of cynicism makes it seem like an excuse made for "sure your quality of life will drop to third world dirt-farming, but it'll be much better for the environment that way".
>>58295102>this garbage-filled infertile wasteland shows signs of life, starting with the roach, followed by the plant>the movie ends with the humans growing stuff again, starting with a small field of what used to be exactly one plant>this shit >>58295119it's very optimistic my dude.
>>58292953As the only available source of calories doesn't count.
>>58295119Apparently this was added because test audiences were leaving the movie assuming humanity died out soon after arriving.
>>58295135> Enforcing the English LanguageCan we pick german or russian or fucking basque over this garbage fire of a language?
>>58295199German and Russian are even worse.t. learned all 3 as foreign languages
>>58295135Cynicism isn't realism. There's a difference between assuming a future society will still have flaws (i.e. realism), and assuming any attempt to improve ourselves will inevitably fail.
>>58295224Thank you anon for actually sharing something related to the topic.
>>58295195>>58295142Apparently it's true>Director Andrew Stanton realized that test audiences didn't believe the humans would survive once they returned to Earth, so he added this beautiful epilogue to put us at ease.
>>58295260No prob, comfy settings are definitely better than more tribal arguments.I can imagine this kind of aesthetic to really work in something like Ryuutama
>>58295279Post more I need them for a solarpunk setting. Despite the /pol/itics I've definitely been inspired.
>>58295246In fairness to Wells he figured the Jews, Moslims and Protestants wouldn't go down without a fight and we get dick all about space flight and automation which were something that was blossoming in the intellectual conscious in the 20's and thirties.>>58295279Danke anon.
>>58295318They’re kinda low quality and I don’t have too many since I’m mobileposting, but hopefully they’re good for some reverse searching for you!
>>58295349Anything you can. Thanks again anon!
>>58295373And most of these are just generally comfy/colorful fantasy or waterworld stuff, apologies.
>>58295376Np, got most of these from the last “wholesome” thread here. We should get another series of those going.
>>58295422I like how creativity is a major theme in the genre. Makes me think of ways how creativity can be channeled outside of the obvious arts.Like how a scientist thinks outside the box to find the solution to a formula, or how an engineer and architect use the surrounding geography to make sure a building is well-built, sufficiently-powered, and good looking to boot.The Art Nouveau is just a bonus, really.
>>58295340> L.Ron Hubbard inspires Ayn Rand to go to Africa and make life even worse for the residents of Kolwezi then it already was. This is amazing and I'm glad you showed me this anon.
>>58295340>Hey let's make a story about how right wing politics makes everywhere shitty!>Let's base the resulting country on fucking Rhodesia of all places, because that was run by white peopleLiterally and unironically propaganda, because, you know, Rhodesia wasn't the bread basket of Africa and exporting all its food to other nations for free when it was around, only to be replaced by communist who rode it into the ground for their own selfish interests.Their fears about it all going to shit if it was handed over too quickly and revenge being sought against a major chunk of the populace weren't legitimate, I mean fuck, Zimbabwe and Mugabe treated the white farmers totally fine after taking over.Nah, it was just fuck niggers this and shallow proto-/pol/ racism to do with eyebrow widths that. They literally ran the blacks through the streets every sunday with white children armed with bullwhips on their backs, they called it the negro derby.That was Rhodesia.Fuck me, my blood pressure.
>>58295468Yeah that’s the good shit. Love it in Junker settings too.
I really like the art nouveau type approach to utopia. And the utopianism behind has a whole philosophico/ cultural background tied very close with the romanticism of the Edwardian and Victorian times. But to be perfectly honest eco-utopias are extremely boring, "nature for nature's" sake doesn't mean anything.Perhaps what would be interesting would be some kind of bioengineered utopia a la biopunk with elements from solar punk. This way you can have both the Fabian socialist utopian perspective and a desire by those utopians to be closer to the romantic myths. As a counter weight you could have a darker dystopia as a counterweight which would like Rapture from Bioshock or the Huxley Brave New World .
>>58296028Unfortunately work beckons so this is my last. Stay comfy lads
>>58292838>by having humanity "remake" God as an AI or something that would govern their new Edenhttp://localroger.com/prime-intellect/
>>58294242>people need thrills and outlets for aggression as much as they need love and respect. It can't just be channeled into sportsball, either."What is 17776?" for 500, Alex