SMAC thread? SMAC thread.Did you know that the game is 20 years old this month?Did you know that if you download the demo and then apply the official patch to it, you end up with something fully playable?http://f3.to/portfolio/games/smac/ Archive contains how to do it, too.SMAC/X featured a multiplayer option, but apart from some stonebeards over at apolyton.net it's not something that ever got a lot of traction...There was also a GURPS game, but it kinda stunk.How does /tg/ feel about this venerable piece of interactive sci-fi?
>>56633860Was great.C:BE was meant to be a spiritual successor to it. How do you fuck up so hard?
>>56633880Literally every leader was bland. Compare them to the wide spread of different leaders in Alpha Centauri and weep. The metaplot would have been bad, if it existed. Beyond earth just had vague sense of "earth is in dire straits so some people are sent to other planet" instead of the colony ship crashes in atmosphere, leaving different members of the operation build their own civilisation according to their ideals.The differientation of styles (Supremancy, purity, alienhugging) were not very interesting and ate up room for giving actual personality and style to the factions.
>>56633880> remove modular units because can't make players think too much> remove engaging, interesting faction leader characters because muh political correctness> remove ecological model because who cares about terraforming anyway beyond getting more resource cubes per worker> blandify the underlying story about PlanetC:BE would have been a good mod/TC. But instead we got to pay full game price for it.http://www.moddb.com/mods/planetfall If they had made this official and expanded upon it, it'd have come out better.
>>56633860More importantly. Where is the dawwwwtastic piece of post-transcendence Zak/Aki writefaggotry that floated around last time?
>>56633880I mean it isn't exactly a mystery. They made a fiction with less interesting factions and a less interesting setting and the presented it in a less interesting way.And then they attached it to a game which was a slightly worse version of something people had been playing for years.
>>56633977http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/13111584/ This is the story you seek.>>56634072In the "If X was made today" tradition, what would modern SMAC look like?Hard mode: Published by EA."Planetpearls recovered from husks and added to Planetpearl Vault. Do you want to buy a loot crate?"
>>56633860You know what could make a good game setting?Planet as it was meant to be.Unity lands safely, Cpt. Garland doesn't get his throat cut, city of First Landing established extremely quickly from the flat packs in storage and the cannibalized ship and a grand nation is established.It's rule by board, more or less. Garland is the Chairman which just amounts to trying to put brakes on the crazy train. The original faction leaders make up the representatives of parts of the civilization.Nation is growing fast and now it's political back stabbery time.
>>56633860man iremember this game,it was great,i use to write fan fiction about it,it would indeed make fora great setting,you can make your players be all from teh same faction,and them you would choose an exting job for them,they could be explorers or soldiers,or a probe team,yes it would be great
>>56634148Alternatively, a hybrid approach.Most (let's say 60%) of humanity is in the one big city that grew out of the Unity landing stage, and the surrounding countryside. The faction leaders are there, a sort of city council with Lal nominally the governor/mayor.The outlying settlements, ostensibly built to expand the core country, is where stuff happens. Each is pledged to a faction leader and there's constant prank/bullshit/troll wars going on between all the little villages, with the leaders stepping in to make sure that it doesn't turn into actual war.Add tension between the core inhabitants and the homesteaders as the human territory expands.
>>56634166Probe team shenanigans from 2012: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/18615638/
>>56633860> 1997> 2017Well fuck now I feel old.I guess we did get the human genome project stuff done, so there's that.https://paeantosmac.wordpress.com/2015/02/17/introduction/ This guy did an amazing analysis of the game's techs and secret projects.
>>56634191Man, 4chan sure has changed these past couple years.Does /tg/ still get shit done?
>>56634180That could work better.Would still require the removal of Cpt. Garland. Killing the man in charge would be a pretty major thing so they would have to have had procedure in place to deal with it. Such procedures would take time so put his death out until about 5 years after the colony is first established and have his death be unquestionably accidental. having been awake for the entirety of the mission since it left Earth he would have been already pretty fucking old by the time they made landing, add to that the stress of setting up and running the new nation and then he get's cancer.Cancer was almost certainly the result of inadequate shielding on the ships reactor plus decades of exposure. Everyone who was sleeping for the voyage or leapfrogging down the years was fine. He was more or less the only one who was awake for the entire thing so he got fucked for it. Hands over increasing responsibilities to Lal until the end when Lal takes over and barely anyone notices the difference.Unity City set up on the shores of the unimaginatively named Landing Bay (Garland, as Cpt. was in charge of naming things and he couldn't name for shit).Around the Bay is 100% unity controlled and managed by Lal and the Board (other original faction leaders). Lal is somewhat of a non entity politically speaking. He is, in the Discworld sense, Drumknott. But he is a good moderating influence on the others.The other faction leaders are (except aliens because fuck that was dumb) from the outer townships on the other continents or far from the Bay Lands.Except for the Data Angels who are just shit stirring assholes and are everywhere.Big division is whether the long term goal should be to re-establish contact with Earth and try and save it or fuck it all and start again.Radio echo of Earth indicates that shit has continued to fall apart after departure.
>>56633880Modern Sci-Fi (BE) vs Classic Sci-Fi(AC)
>>56634314Not nearly as often, sadly.I miss old /tg/.
I DON'T KNOW BUT I BEEN TOLD
>>56634375And meanwhile, the Pirates are off building Rapture under the sea, and the Firaxians are being the Firaxians.
>>56633880Boring, bland, uninspired setting that is as vague as possible for the sake of not putting effort into it
>>56633860Human Hive was the best faction>My gift to industry is the genetically engineered worker, or Genejack. Specially designed for labor, the Genejack's muscles and nerves are ideal for his task, and the cerebral cortex has been atrophied so that he can desire nothing except to perform his duties. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain?>Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, "Essays on Mind and Matter"
if smac was made today i'd give each faction some unique ending instead of all of them becoming a giant planet consciousness which was the most in theme with Gaians.either by faction unique quests lile endless space, or make the tech tree open up the evolution of humanity.yang made humans who were genetically designed to be obedient creating the perfect society, aki zeta wanted everyone to have a hivemind etc etc.you could even have an expanded social screen kinda showing what your current society looks like
>>56634686>How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain?This sounds like a real not rhetoric question from Yang.>'The lack of suffering is perceived as pleasure, the lack pleasure is perceived as suffering. The one who can't feel pain can still be tyrannized by denying him all things pleasurable except for the one you want him to do.'>'Good, good, now go to gulag'
>>56634666Pirate Sven has no need of citiesRapture would be more a sort of Morgan Industries thing.They set up a free port city on the tip of the Isle of Deianira pointing towards Landing Bay. close enough to the prosperous Bay and Unity City to get most of the benefits but far enough away to claim independence and have it stick.Deianira is being colonized from Rapture outwards as Morgan is selling them supplies, maps and land rights. It is shaping up to be a rival nation in the infancy stage. rest of the board is pissed at this as he is the only one to set up his own nation.The other infant nations are all set up by fringe groups and weirdos who were exiled in all but name. Aki and her brood for instance were "encouraged" to set up shop on an island in the middle of the Great Northern Ocean.Should there be a threat of Alien Invasion and how far down the years should it be?
>childhood is thinking Miriam is a bitch and Deidre is sooo right>adulthood is realizing Miriam is not merely a bitch but also completely in the right while Deidre is psycho bitch with no redeeming features
>>56635018Deidre remains the only leader I don't and have never at any point liked.
>>56635018>The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesteryear. But it was never the streets that were evil.>Sister Miriam Godwinson, "The Blessed Struggle"
>>56634600DEIRDRE'S GOT A NETWORK NODE
I can't play anything but University.I dangle my tech-carrot and the puppets dance.Fight each other for my pleasure!Not really, just don't beat me up and I'll give you lasers.
>>56635038This, desu.Mind Worms are a fucking war crime and an absolutely horrific thing to use on another human being.
>>56635053Anyone else ever use a SMAC quote in a school essay or similar?If so, did you reference the game, or did you leave the character as the author?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_E._Zakharov
>>56635038Deidre and Lal are the only ones I despise desu.
>>56635182Believers are also good for tech if played right. Brute force the problem by weight of numbers after terraforming for MAXIMUM population.Just keep on handing out lesser prizes to neighbours whilst rushing as many Secret Projects as possible.Then once you hit the tipping point start telling them all to fuck off and laugh as they impotently tantrum.
>>56634579WRONG.For example, here's a SMAC prequel that got done this year on /qst/. http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=left%20beyond(Technically has room for Miriam, too)
>>56635205I get tentacle rape girl, but why Lal? He's harmless, middle of the road.Wait.LAL IS A JERRY.IT'S AN ENTIRE FACTION OF JERRYS.Never mind planet bust away
>>56635227Actually that's a complaint I have about SMAC, you can't really ever use planet busters. Not because everyone coalitions against you (although the factions you have already conquered should stay submissive) but because you get mindwormraped the turn after you unleash righteous quasi-nuclear fury.>>56635218Dammit that quest actually finished!? I missed the 2nd half
AND SO I PRAYUNLIMITED POPULATION WORKS
>>56635227>but why Lal?Aside from him trying to re-institute the most worthless institution known to man (fitting given his ethnicity cuz it's basically an extension of Arabic and African ethnic supremacists at this point) and being portrayed as a "harmless middle of the road" who believes in peaceful resolutions while his sidestories show him to be an immoral cunt?The fact that his institutional failings aren't shown as well as the others. I mean you can see how horrific most of the others are at a glance whereas his faction isn't portrayed as interesting or malicious enough. (even if it is in real life)
>>56635251>not murdering the mindworms>not having already pissed them off with dozens of boreholes
>>56635266are you going for a diplomatic win? and why the crawlers if all these cities are close together?
>>56635251You can use them. You just have to be prepared for the mindwormrape. It's a choice with consequences.
>>56635218Oh god that quest. Not a bad way to run a 4X game in quest form, actually, but it was kinda weird.> QM does not announce games> occasionally makes mistakes in the math> We stay up till 4AM anyway because the writing is goodThe dice rolls were so bad that it really felt like we were fighting God. > literally never got a break> rolled 1 on a d1000> it was for resisting Yahweh's blow-up-the-earth firestormHowever, it did go from "The Rapture happened, wat do" to sending a bunch of interestingly eclectic people to Alpha Centauri to escape God's judgement. And it worked because we, playing as basically the soul of the internet, sacrificed ourselves to Captain Kirk God at the end.Ryan Andrews = Nwabudike Morgan, obviously.Tethys = 50% Ulrik, 50% Deirdre.Zak = Zak. Even used the same nameVee = Lal I guess? Only sane man vibe. Or maybe DomaiThe Only Light survivors = Human Hive given how they acted in the game.Urist = Heh. Why not let's have a dwarf faction in there.The believers were not intended to be on the ship but it was implied that they'd have snuck in.Pinging geistklempner who said he'd do a sequel but then disappeared off the face of the earth.
>>56635294It's an old image and it's not mine, so god if I know. Crawlers might be to send resources to specific colonies? Dunno.
>>56635356Infinite City Sprawl. Auto-win in Civ1 and Civ2, SMAC added a hapPENIS penalty for implementing it, but it didn't go too far enough, so, it was viable. https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/194215/smac-sid-meiers-alpha-centauri-multiplayer-and-planetary-chit-chat-threadRemember that Civ3 happened after SMAC.>>56635350Uh. What? There was a SMAC quest?
>>56635394No, there was a quest based on the Left Behind books (Christfag literature) that ended with the survivors of the Judgement going to Alpha Centauri via hybernation ship. It was archived. It tries to be too edgy in a few places, but it's a decent read.
>>56635298Right, but on non-babby difficulty you're looking at 20+ mindworm attacks per base per turn after a good hot nukin'.If nothing else it slows down the game a lot because you have to watch a wormageddon for 5 minutes before you can take your turn.
>>56635450That's why the turn when you turn Planet into swiss cheese should be the last one before a military victory anyway.>>56635287That should have been an extra victory condition... terraform away all the fungus."Provost Zakharov! We've done it! The Planetmind is dead!"
>>56635283I disagree. Lal serially clones his concubines. It's in one of the tech blurbs. Now you might expect that from Morgan or Yang but what makes it hit home is that Lal is a massive hypocrite given his faction agenda.>>56635283> Arabic and African ethnic supremacistsLal is Indian. Also 3edgy5mehttp://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReplacementGoldfish Here it is
>>56635503"Morgan, we can't keep making more boreholes! The mind worms are going berserk! The Planet will kill every human on her!""Then we shall take the Planet with us."
>>56635534>Lal is Indian.I could hardly remember since he's so bland of a character beyond his vaguely "ethnic" portrait.>Also 3edgy5meThere's nothing edgy about the UN being an extension of African and Arab supremacy at this point. The Saudis run most of the important councils (human rights for one, the same people who only let women drive this year and carte blanche kill people in the desert for pissing off any of their hundreds of ruling family members) and they and the African countries are allied in pushing what the UN refers to in official documents, completely unironically, as "Replacement Migration".Unsurprisingly they're only committed that their Replacement Migration should occur in European countries, the Saudis themselves refuse refugees, don't hand out citizenship and only let de-facto visa-less slaves from poorer parts work in their country.The UN was already terrrible when SMAC was written, now it's completely beyond the pale.
>>56635563IDK, Morgan seems a bit too level headed for that.... Let's face it, the SMAC writers managed to do a Randian hero that is actually sympathetic.>>56635622Saudi is a shit hole (I did IT there for a bit) but saying that they are in charge of the UN is just stupid. Right now Saudis are scrambling to "modernize" because they're going to have to fess up to being almost out of oil in a couple years.Also, I'll bite - what would you have replaced Lal with, in the game? I think he is supposed to be the generic faction since he has less bonuses/maluses than anyone else.
>>56633880Here's the answer: http://steamcommunity.com/app/65980/workshop/Look at the most subscribed mods. They are all stuff that SMAC had by default. The devs tried too hard to be different, same as every remake of every classic sci fi that we've had since Lens Flare Man took over Star Trek.
>>56635635>but saying that they are in charge of the UN is just stupid. They and their allies have been handed every important council but the military one, so yes they are de-facto in charge of the UN as-is. It rules over their social policy which is why you see shit like the UN overtly calling for replacement migration in Europe (incl Russia) and Japan.>Right now Saudis are scrambling to "modernize" because they're going to have to fess up to being almost out of oil in a couple years.They won't. They're throwing very small bones to get activist people to ignore them enough that they can stay the sweetspot ally of the US and Israel against the Shia states as well as get weapons deals with European states. >what would you have replaced Lal with, in the game? Literally nothing. His faction is a worthless waste of space. If you insist on having something equivalent then have it be like the real UN and overtly have it have sidestories where it's obviously an excuse for collective powermongering over weaker members. >I think he is supposed to be the generic factionJust more of a reason why he sucks.
>>56635635Not so much level headed, just not going to get rid of resources.All those angry mindworms will leave behind planet pearls.
>>56635671> found the /pol/entaHow about putting an aquatic faction in the base game then instead.>>56635701Only if you attack them... if they attack you and die, you get nothing. The problem is that when you have a lot of ecodamage, the worms will spawn next to your bases and attack your garrison, so you don't really get a chance to attack first.
>>56635720>whining about /pol/>rick and morty picWhat did it mean by this?
>>56635720>How about putting an aquatic faction in the base game then instead.How about blowing your own brains out?Fucking Pirates are the worst balanced faction in the entire game even counting the Aliens.
>>56635777>>56635765Having some "guys guys let's not go off on crazy tangents" faction makes sense in-story, and since the project was originally UN sponsored, why not keep it named after the UN? What else would you name it?I guess one thing you could do is say that the UN faction has no bonuses, no penalties, and no social engineering restrictions, so actually make it a generic faction and let the player play it flexibly. The NPC AI can be kept generic, which works because Lal has the least quotes in the game anyway.And yes, the expansion factions aren't well balanced (or that compelling story wise... maybe the free drones).
>>56635765It meant this.Let's see...Dictator = Yang.Hippie = we have Deirdre and Fungusboy.Survivalists = we have Santiago and Ulrik.Science = we have Zak and Aki.Capitalists = we have Morgan.Religious = we have Miriam. Although it'd be nice if, should you go Fundamentalist, she went all DEUS VULT at you instead of making friends, since fundies of two different cultures generally want to fight.> tfw Miriam is more progressive than today's christfags or muhammadfagsI guess that if you were to replace the Peacekeepers you'd have to add Domai to the base game. He'd be an interesting foil to both Yang and Morgan, actually...So how would the DONALD TRUMP faction work? Might as well go there since we got /pol/acks in the thread.
>>56635848Trump faction is already in the game.
>>56635894Not really. Morgan is a competent businessman, whereas Trump went bankrupt multiple times. He doesn't give two fucks about ethnicity or nationality, whereas Trump is a nationalist. His core principle is the sanctity of contract, whereas Trump is known to fuck over subcontractors on the regular. Morgan has a lot more in common with Bill Gates than with Donald Trump.
>>56635848t. Brainlet.Most of these are very off.>Dictator = YangCollectivist Authoritarianism aka Maoism mixed with Transhumanism. >Hippie = we have Deirdre New Ager who genuinely worships Gaia theory and brings it to it's logical eco-terrorist conclusion.>Survivalists = we have SantiagoSantiago is Militarist Autocracy and is obviously built along the lines of the Spartans.>Science = Zak>Capitalists = MorganYes. >Religious = we have Miriam. Although it'd be nice if, should you go FundamentalistShe is fundamentalist, just not one of your ridiculous American ones who don't understand basic Christian theology.> tfw Miriam is more progressive than today's christfags or muhammadfagsShe's actually highly Conservative compared to most sunday Christians (i.e. barely Christians at all) and she's incredibly progressive compared to the most liberal Muslims due to the nature of Islam's teachings.>So how would the DONALD TRUMP faction work? It wouldn't since he's a bogstandard centrist with populist rethoric. Nothing to work off unless you're dumb enough to think the faction leaders are all it's about and not the underlying factions. >Might as well go there since we got /pol/acks in the thread.How about you stop whining about pol and start posting some content that doesn't amount to "let's push the garbage mechanics and lore of the expansion into the far superior base game!". Cause you sure as shit haven't done it so far.
>>56635894> playing as yangishy ishy>>56635990>>56635894> injecting IRL politics into sci fi game from the 90ssee picture>>56636011I don't disagree with you there. The question is, if you get rid of the Peacekeepers, whose ideology is basically the null hypothesis, what do you replace them with?Maybe a sort of "earth culture curator" faction that specifically wants to get to the point where Earth can be recolonized?
>>56635990You're regurgitating election talking points as if they're relevant, everyone knows Trump used bankruptcy rules to write-off enterprises that weren't profitable. Bill Gates ought to trigger you as well considering he pioneered a shitton of shady business tactics at MS and now in his retirement thinks Europe shouldn't take in any more third-world immmigrants or fake refugees.
>>56635990>Morgan is a competent businessman, whereas Trump went bankrupt multiple timesThe problem here is your second sentence reveals that you don't even know what being a competent businessman is in the first place. Not all ventures are successful and if you're putting capital into a lot of different things some of them are going to go bust. It's not a strike against Trump at all and trying to use it as once just shows your financial illiteracy.Trump has never gone bankrupt. Ventures he has financed have gone bankrupt and that's something that happens to literally every single person who heavily invests in venture capital.
>>56636034>what do you replace them with?Nothing.They're a faction that add absolutely nothing to the game in terms of playstyle, fluff or mechanics.
>>56636058Look up his tax returns from 1995 and then we can talk. Anyway, this is a SMAC thread, not a Trump thread.>>56636061The problem is that the game is balanced for 7 factions. If you leave 6, whoever is next to the empty spawn spot dominates.
>>56636155>Look up his tax returns from 1995 How 'bout you look up his filings for the presidential race and stop being retarded.>The problem is that the game is balanced for 7 factions. If you leave 6, whoever is next to the empty spawn spot dominates.We're not talking about removing Lal from the game as it is, now are we. Without him the devs would have had to make different maps obviously.
>>56636011>So how would the DONALD TRUMP faction work? It wouldn't since he's a bogstandard centrist with populist rethoric. Nothing to work off unless you're dumb enough to think the faction leaders are all it's about and not the underlying factions. THIS.> How about you stop whining about pol and start posting some content that doesn't amount to "let's push the garbage mechanics and lore of the expansion into the far superior base game!". Cause you sure as shit haven't done it so far.Yeah, the expansion was a significant step down story wise. Although some mechanics were nice (HSA no longer ending the probe game).If it was me I'd replace Lal with Domai and call it a day, it was the most sense-making expansion faction, and it's fairly balanced overall.
>>56636201He never filed anything despite being asked to, because it's not mandatory. In fact, some states are going to make it mandatory starting 2020.>>56636206> (HSA no longer ending the probe game).Less reason to nuke/conquer the HSA city, though. One thing that I would've liked to see at least as a game option, is make it so that the AI can start a nuclear war without the player doing so... it happened in Civ2 IIRC.
Seeing that this thread is veering close to a dam nannoying derail, I present you with a wuestion:What kind of faction would you put in to a new version of Alpha Centauri. What kind of person would their leader be ? What is their background and what would their plans be ? What are the factions good and bad sides and how does your average person align in the factions society ?
Few things would have improved that game. Only ones I can think ofAbility to play more than 7 factionsRemoval of the alien factions. I've heard people defend their favourite Crossfire human factions enough to know that there is at least one person who likes each faction. Even the spore sniffing doomsday cultists, unbelievable as that sounds. I have never heard anyone say anything good about either of the alien factions.Easier to use faction editor.More intuitive UIBeyond that nothing but a graphical upgrade but even then the graphics are still acceptable even 20 years later.
>>56636228>He never filed anything despite being asked toIgnorant moron. FEC filings are required of presidential candidates and he filed them before the presidental race even started.
>>56636229Good wuestion!If I was doing a remake, I'd just focus on updating the graphics and network - the crunch is starting to show its age, but the fluff is damn near perfect, so let's not fix what's broken.I guess the thread has either one person posting the same thing over and over, or replacing Lal with Domai.One thing I would do is have the expansion factions show up as NPC subfactions later in the game - for example, if we don't start with Domai, let's say that the player or another NPC engineers a series of drone riots in Morganic or Hive territory, and there's the Free Drones faction spawning. Same thing with University and Data Angels.Interestingly enough Civ 1 on the Amiga had this mechanic! An AI empire could split into two if they stayed in anarchy for too long.And yeah on the alien factions. That took away a lot of the mystique of Planet. Although I can see Zak getting along with the Progenitors just out of sheer admiration for such a large-scale experiment...Possible faction ideas:"Rebuild Earth" faction: Wins by doing a reverse Civ and sending a colony ship back home. Negative planet rating. Bonus to defungation."Country Farm" faction: As in a farm of countries, not a farm in the country. They specifically want to act as an umbrella org for people who want to keep their national culture. Ironically this makes them the most diverse faction.
>>56636275I'd like to see a revolution mini-campaign in which it's midgame, you are, say, Sinder Roze, have hacked yourself a nice colony pod and put all your buddies in it, and now have to survive under the University or Morgan radar long enough to build enough military and political strength that they have to take you seriously.Sort of like the first Colonizaton game, the one built on the Civ1 engine.
>>56636275Borrow the multiple map system from Civ2:Test of Time.Basically, you got pseudo-3d by having more than one map, stacked on top of each other, and special units (like teleporters or launch ramps) that let you travel on the Z axis.For SMAC, this could be a Nessus colony, or an orbital layer that is more than just building satellites.Interestingly, C2:TOT had their own SMAC-we-wish scenario called LaLande 21185.https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/lalande-21185-civ2-test-of-time-sci-fi-game.313815/
>>56636371>For SMAC, this could be a Nessus colony, or an orbital layer that is more than just building satellites.So CtP's space layer?Let's bring in CtP's combat system while we're at it.
>>56636318There's almost nothing wrong with the mechanics. The only thing that hasn't aged well is the UI.
>>56636407UI is decent if you're used to it, but yes, there should be more civ-wide toggles.And a "Set former to auto-remove-fungus". Please.
>>56636399Call to Power.Something Activision had made when they temporarily had the rights to the Civilization series. They even made two. The second fixes a lot of problems, desu. Too bad it shortens the game and gets rid of the space layer.So yeah, there's a second layer over the normal map for space cities, captured asteroid mining, etc. The combat system isn't one unit at a time either, units fight as armies. And there are no workers, only public works; you just set how much of your money producing gets turned into public works points, and you use those to build improvements directly, much better than the worker system. There also were a shitload of non-combat units, like spies, diplomats, slavers, abolitionists, lawyers, advertising companies, eco terrorists, etc.As far as end game goes, IIRC in the first one you eventually construct a wormhole in the space layer, send explorers through, and then they come back with some alien genetic material and the goal is to clone an alien or create a human/alien hybrid, I can't remember for sure. In the second one, you build a network of fancy satellites and obelisks on land to take absolute control of the weather, solve the pollution problem once and for all and live in relative harmony.
>>56636486Oh right and yeah, I might be wrong but as I recall in ToT, the space layer was literally just a second map not really linked to the main land map, but in CtP, the space layer is literally exactly above the landmap, you can see everything through. Some units from space can interact with those on land and vice-versa. I think there's a few units that can move fast in space and drop down on Earth wherever you want, too.
>>56636511ToT let you make four maps, whether they were actual height layers or different dimensions (or even different times in one scenario, in which you were invaded by well-intentioned utopians from the future) was up to the scenario designer.I might give CtP a try, thank you!
>>56636551You should know first though, the AI in both games is pretty poor (better in II), civilizations have no personality and leaders are just a line of text.
>>56636448>>56636318>>56635503Show me on the doll where the mindworm touched you.> expected trump salt> did not expect xenofungus salt
>>56633953Because the self-aware colony tazed me, Sister!
>>56634375What if Garland just dies of old age shortly after Planetfall, just on account of having been awake the whole time (and nobody has life extension stuff yet).Miriam would probably appreciate the Moses parallel.
>>56636705That could work but it would have to happen a few years after founding to avoid chaos. So the parallel isn't perfect.Also how long was the voyage and how old was the captain?
>>56637265Hello, Left Beyond QM here.In LBQ, the voyage was 16 years long, which is pretty much the high end of realistic (the Reach, the game's version of the Unity, used a fission fragment engine to achieve constant acceleration throughout the voyage). Most of the crew had cybernetic implants that would let them enter a dreamlike slow metabolism mode, but the captain didn't. The captain was also a head in a jar.
>>56637370And in the official AC fluff?
>>5663743640 years according to the GURPS splatbook, which you can find here.
>>56635848>>56636034Serious question: Are the Cybernetic faction supposed to be high functioning autistic?Also what's the UI in this screenshot?
>>56637816Everything I have seen says yes.
Nobody proposed a SMAC/Avatar crossover yet? For shame!> sentient natives replace the Progenitors> psionic queue thing and wildlife control actually fits well with Planet's ecosystem> they have to copy at least some human tech to keep up
>>56638157> 1998 game> 2009 movie> 2017 original content donut steelishy ishy
>>56636275The Ayy Lmaos were not only fairly boring, but also a death sentence for whoever they ended up starting near most of the time.The concept of two advanced ayy factions fighting each other Ur-Quan style while the pitiful humans squabble amongst themselves is cool in theory, but it was badly executed.
>>56639801It would have worked better (and be closer to the fluff) if they'd showed up even 40 turns into the game rather than at the beginning.>>56637958Well, there we go then.>>56638157Heh, half tempted to fire up the faction editor and make this....
>>56640429>Well, there we go thenDespite playing as the token autists they are still my second favorite faction.
>>56640494Who's first?Also, one random event I would add: A rogue mad scientist / pirate / criminal / terrorist. Basically, a powerful unit spawns somewhere, and must be defeated. Or you can bribe it to go bug someone else by a diplomacy-like dialogue.Imagine Prokhor Zakharov facing off against Rick Sanchez...
>>56641134>Who's first?The Believers.
>>56641206> be Morgans> finally force Spartans to submit> own the Pholus continent> biggest continent covered in orange anthills, Miriam ate everyone else while I wasn't looking> probe team time> Believing social engineering choices make subverting bases way too expensive> switch to Fundamentalism for the +2 probe> see Miriam's capital on the coast> fill a boat with infantryWE WILL TAKE NEW JERUSALEM!
>>56635018I think understanding the greyness of Deirdre's moral position is part of growing up... Miriam is still a fucking monster IMO and should be put down like the mad dog she is. Next Cha Dawn, Deirdre seems pretty ok though.
>>56635635India just pushed Britain out of the World Court; Lebanon and Somalia are still on the World Court. The UN is a joke.
>>56641818Given that the Security Council is still made up of the victors of WWII and they still have veto power... it's doing what it was supposed to do.
>>56637816>Also what's the UI in this screenshot?Seems like a Civ4 mod.
>>56633880The thing that completely killed Beyond Earth for me was the fact that factions were just futuristic versions of real world nations, instead of Alpha Centauri's competing philosophies. I don't want to play as Future India or Future France or Future Russia, I wanted to play as the Survival First Faction or the Talking Things Through Faction or the Moneygrubber Faction.
>Be Yang>Understand that securing humanity's propensity and prosperity is achieved not through ideology or theology but through sheer force of will. Ideological, axiomatic, scientific and philosophical thought are all tools that a sculpture uses to shape itself.>Ego the mastery of mind and body; input and output, is to heuristically understand human nature and the human condition, allowing one to be the master of all of humanity.>All other lesser forms of mastery is tautologically immoral and unethical and thus need to be discarded much like a gardener prunes the flowers and stems of a lotus, so it may bloom more brilliantly and radiantly.>Pravin Lal and his peacekeepers have settled nearby, and his lack of austerity and conservative and compassionate hubris proves to be his downfall, as my bases and soldiers encroach and assimilate his own.>The Spartans entrench themselves on a peninsula of rough jungle and ruinous ground infested with mind worm nests, thinking such sultry inconveniences can slow my transcendence.>Yet again sheer force of will triumphs over martial autocracy, I pity Santiago for she could not overcome the basest of animal instinct, instead she choose to revel in it.>The entire eastern continent has fallen to my will, bases cover every sector and boreholes are being drilled to fuel my manifest destiny, the other leaders quiver in fear at my nihilistic utopia.>Deidre weeps as I choke Planet of all of its treasures.>Morgan so blindsided by greed pays no heed to worldly affairs.>And so the planet busters fall like rain and humanity is cleansed and reborn nihilistically pure.
>>56642876Fuck off Domai you broken "I can pop boom whenever I feel like it" piece of shit.
>>56642608>>56642876It's fascinating how Domai and Yang are both , in the end, collectivists, but in the end complete opposites.Domai is apparently benevolent, but he has no problems in resorting to violence to build a pragmatic utopia, here and now, consequences be damned.Yang thinks long-term, very long term, with utter brutality and almost alien thought.Let the best commie win, I guess (and Domai was the only good leader added in SMAX)
>>56643096>>56642608Why does Yang wear glasses in the GURPS manual but not in game? Is he wearing a collar or is he a head in a jar?>>56642876Nevermind the collar, why is Domai wearing a tire, what
>>56643210Bottom-up vs. top-down.Also, may the best choice of fabulous neckwear prevail.Having a sea based faction was nifty, but the Pirates were broken as a player faction. They're decent to have as opponents, though.>>56633860This is not the base game, it has extra units and who the fuck are the Atlanteans?
>>56643213And he doesn't even have near/far-sighted as disadvantage so he doesn't even need glasses.
>>56643275The thought of Yang wearing fake hipster glasses made my morning.
>>56643359Heh, now I wonder what silly habits they have.Yang: Wears hipster glasses.Zak: Shitposts on flat-Chiron network nodes.Deirdre: Actually heterosexual but has an image to maintain so kisses girls too.Miriam: Total domme.Santiago: Would let Miriam do her.Lal: Liek loli.Morgan: Dresses up 70s style and hits dive bars.
>>56637816>tfw I fapped to aki's portrait during a round of SMAC because I was too absorbed in the game to tab out to porn
>>56646703Who were you playing as?
>>56647004Ah, so the gaian leader taking Aki under her wing; teaching her that as a cyborg, she should not ignore her organic side, and providing her with some hands on instruction.
>>56636229A literal death-cult that wants to convert everyone then commit mass suicide, or something. The kicker is, besides that one end-goal, everything leading up to it is pretty great and the members of the cult by and large live a happy and fulfilling life.
>>56648912It'd probably start with them meeting before a Council session. Aki in her usual state of disarray, and Skye taking it upon herself to get Luttinen some proper clothes, and bathe her.During this enforced moment of intimacy, Deirdre would question her, finding out just how much of her human life she's abandoned. Maybe inquire as to how she feels giving up love and sex.Aki would admit to never indulging, even before. And Deirdre would take it upon herself to show the Prime Function how to maintain her organic half, introducing her to the miracles of Gaian science. (and maybe even a Morganite device or two. It may be horribly industrious, but it hits all the right spots. Especially their "manic mindworm" design)
SMAC is actually a boring game that isn't worth playing.
And this is why Deidre is a monster.
>>56633860Ah, the most powerful recipient of the might of nostalgia-goggles besides Planescape Torment.Both were shit, but people like to jerk off to the supposedly-profound writing that doesn't really make up for the terrible gameplay.
>>56643210Yang seems more like a religious leader. Domai is a by the book leninist.
>>56641580>greyness of Deirdre's moral position>literally feed people to mindworms for no reason>Miriam is still a fucking monster>The only one who holds fundamental moral views as paramountt. psychoposter?
>>56650293Not him, but the key word is: fundamental.There is absolutely NOTHING that makes Miriam better or worse than any other faction. Just because she likes to use God and religion as an excuse for her own actions doesn't make her better or her set of morality better or more valid. But what DOES make her worse than other leaders is the non-stop aggression she represents. Not even Yang is going to be this fucking aggressive.Plus, anyone who isn't Peacekeepers is a rebel, just for starters, so go figure.Also, since the game celebrates 18 birthday, daily reminder the whole "but Gaians feed people to mindworms!" is total bullshit that people latch to, without having any backing in the game proper. Unless you consider using mindworms as military equal with feeding them with humans, there is just no way around it. It's just hilarious how in last few years suddenly Miriam, loather for more than a decade, became a paragon of virtue, while one of the least awful factions is demonised to no end. Contrarian much?
>>56650418>There is absolutely NOTHING that makes Miriam better or worse than any other faction. Yes there is. She's not nervestapling people or feeding them to mindworms fluff-wise.Nor does she sit by the wayside and shake hands with those who do like Lal or sell them the resources to do so like Morgan.>doesn't make her better or her set of morality better or more valid. Actually it does because she's literally the only faction to actually showcase any semblance of morality whatsoever. Hell she's the only one to talk about evil in terms other than "i'm getting revenge on those mindworm fucks" or "lol nihilism, being this malicious is fun". >But what DOES make her worse than other leaders is the non-stop aggression she represents. Which is good of her, considering the other factions are literally Hitler and Mengeles the whole bunch.>Plus, anyone who isn't Peacekeepers is a rebelRebellion against a morally corrupt regime is justified.>the whole "but Gaians feed people to mindworms!" is total bullshit that people latch toAside from the ingame fluff.>It's just hilarious how in last few years suddenly Miriam, loather for more than a decadeBecause people didn't read the fluff much and just assumed she was a cunt over her Gandhi-AI.Then you start reading the fluff and realize "Oh, she's the only sane one there."
>>56633860I play through a campaign at least once a year. Going on 15 years, now.I also insert characters and concepts into my table-top games. Pic related will show up in my Mage game as a Syndicate manager, with Yang as his NWO rival.>>56641580When I try to imagine and roleplay the faction leaders, I always look at what is written over how the game plays out. I don't hold their in-game actions against them, because the lore is not going to be perfectly represented in-game.Also, the novels were great, and put the characters through some interesting situations.>Lal and his moralizing are even more useless in the novels than they are in the game>Yang sets up a Xanatos gambit where a clone of himself will become a rebel leader, and eventually overthrow/replace him>Miriam is actually pretty chill and rational, until Zak tries to cap her ass, and she crawls from the rubble 3 days later going full DEUS VULT!
>>56651057>>Lal and his moralizing are even more useless in the novels than they are in the gameImpossible.
>>56649941>nerve gas is an atrocity but this isn't
>mfw rape the planet so hard it tries to exterminate my nation with Mid Worms but then I tame them and send them against enemy population centres and provoke them into using nerve gas so that they get sanctioned by the Space UN for war crimes and every one helps me exterminate them to the last child and all the while I play innocent
>>56650525>Actually it does because she's literally the only faction to actually showcase any semblance of morality whatsoever.>Hell she's the only one to talk about evil in terms other than "i'm getting revenge on those mindworm fucks" or "lol nihilism, being this malicious is fun". Religious morality is wholly arbitrary. Miriam worrying about evil is no different than Morgan being annoyed that drones don't like his research hospitals - both are making judgements based on value systems that have nothing to do with human dignity or happiness. Miriam is talking about what is evil before God, and only about that.I mean fuck, Believers have a flat out bonus to sabotage and murder.
>>56652271Still prefer to live in her theocracy then the nations of the others. Possible exception for Lal so long as there wasn't any external threats.
>>56652271And Lal serially clones his concubines.I think ultimately Santiago is the most moral.... however, tvtropes says that she had a weak son and she protects him by messing with aptitude test scores. I can't find that anywhere in the fluff though.http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/SidMeiersAlphaCentauri
>>56633860I remember when I first discovered this game here on /tg/ nearly 8 years ago, good times>>56643210>It's fascinating how Domai and Yang are both , in the end, collectivists, but in the end complete opposites.I'd say that the Free Drones were more about free individuals working together for mutual benefit similar to the philosopher Max Stirner's "union of egoists" concept, simultaneously individualist and collectivist. The Hive, on the other hand, was about disregarding individuals and treating them only as a part of a greater whole.>>56642376This nigga gets it. Having the factions based on ideologies is the main reason I still prefer SMAC over the standard Civ games despite being old as fuck. >>56652357>Still prefer to live in her theocracy then the nations of the others.Pic related is the only faction that isn't batshit retarded in some way or another, prove me wrong. Spoiler: [/spoiler]you can't[/spoiler]
>>56650525Miriam's legit retarded and becomes increasingly unstable though the game. Her early quotes are reasonable, but her brain takes a hard left turn into crazytown by end game.
>>56652383It's from the novels.Specifically the first one, where the Spartans and the UN landed right next door to each other, and the UN got fucked up.Of course, in the end Miriam "wins" plunging Planet into an apocalyptic hellstorm, leading to everyone going into the Virtual World to live out their centuries. Except Lal and his wife's clone.So, you know, swings and roundabouts.
>>56652670So at least no worse than the other faction leaders.
>>56652879No, they can be pushed to extremes and mistaken but they aren't stupid. That's her biggest problem. She's a fucking imbecile with no business running anything. >>56652791>Miriam>Winning any game that goes more then 100 turnsThat is the least believable part of the books.
Who needs SMAC when you got Joe and the girls?
>>56653046Who the fuck are they?Also I really hope that's just a fan-made shop.
>>56653067Pretty sure they're the faction leaders from Civ: Beyond Earth, though I haven't played it so I could be wrong
>>56653067from left to rightChina leaderAmerica LeaderAfrica LeaderIndia LeaderFrance/Spain leader
>>56653138The only one I remember is Elodie, the french leader. She as the only one that had a smidgen of personality.
>>56653114You aren't missing anythingIt's SMAC except with all the interesting lore and fun mechanics removed and with 1000% more BLAND. And even that description I feel is giving it too much credit.Really it's just Civ with a sci-fi paintover.
>>56652271>Religion>nothing to do with human dignityThe very concept of human dignity is a Christian one, jackoff. There's no rational utilitarian basis for any kind of dignity associated with the human condition, it's wholly based on the Christian theology of all human beings being made in God's image.
>>56653383That depends entirely on the definition of dignity. It's one of those fun words/concepts that don't have a single specific definition.Is it self-respect? Any pagan savage can respect themselves. Social status? Nothing to do with religion.If you specifically define it in terms of Christian godliness then, yes, of course it would be a Christian term.
>>56635990>trump went bankrupt multiple timesYou don't seriously think having 4 companies go bankrupt when you have literally hundreds of companies makes you incompetent at business, right? You aren't actually sitting there thinking a man who went from millions to billions from his business is incompetent st business, right? I hope you're not that stupid.
>>56653467Based on the ancient tax returns that got dug up at some point, he is worth less than if he had taken Daddy's loan and invested it in the safest, lowest growth investment possible. It is possible to be a fuckup without ending up penniless in the streets, and Trump is exactly what that looks like.
>>56636155>Look up his tax returns from 1995 and then we can talk.lol, get a load of Mr Maddow over here. His 1995 tax returns work AGAINST your bullshit, not for it.
>>56653502>going from millions to billions majes you a fuckupt. MSNBYou were wrong about Trump going bankrupt. He never went bankrupt, as explained above. Now all of a sudden you think you're right about this? You need to throw off the propaganda.
>>56653523Make sure you add plenty of ketchup to your Trump Steak before you start eating it, wouldn't want to disrespect Dear Leader.
>>56652916And the others are such paragons of intelligence and stability.
>>56650418>Being this angry about your waifu being a crazy Gaian witch#WeMustDissent
>>56653324there was some brilliance there, buried deeply under heaps of dross and excessively polished, toneless nonsense.'Straya leader was a charming sort. Indian leader, buried in her lore/dialogue, appeared to be an actual supernatural being - she was supposedly over a century old, and she spoke of some sort of supernatural malevolence or darkness she had led the pilgrims there to face. Or she could have just been insane.
So, how canon do people rank various things?Personally, I go for:>SMAC>Journey to Alpha Centauri>SMAX>GURPS Alpha Centauri>Centauri: Arrival>Old website backstory>The novels>Power of the Mindworms
>>56653502t. John Oliver-watching brainlet."Hurr if he made absolutely perfect investments using index funds he would absolutely have beat inflation and made more money than he already did!"Yeah, why don't you try that with your money and get back to us in the thirty years when you're living off the street. (not that you wouldn't anyway since you're clearly a gullible fuck easily parted from his money by political hucksters)
>>56652791Wait, Miriam WINS in the novels?Anyone happen to have a pdf to share? Why, for my good will and friendship, of course.
>>56653383Who is Socrates?Presuppositionalist go home, you and your -2 to research.
>>56653641Well, in the sense that she unleashes planetbusters, she screws herself over just as much.
>>56653634>"Hurr if he made absolutely perfect investments using index funds he would absolutely have beat inflation and made more money than he already did!"I didn't say perfect investments you shill, I said super safe 'this will only lose you money if civilization collapses' investments.
Does anyone have the old SMAX fan-fic stories saved anywhere? I remember years ago reading a story called Joe that I thought was really good.
>>56653669There's no such thing as "super safe" investments you gullible fuckwit.
>>56653632SMAC above all, but I'd have to go with "the main thing of this franchise is a game, so games win over ancillary material" ad put SMAX after that, as much as I dislike the aliens.
>>56653731I see you get your investment information from the same place you get your political information.
>>56653755>i'll just put all my savings in index funds what could go wrong?
>>56653122Fuck man, when I see those leader pictures I realize that the only name I immediately could remember was HutamaAnd the only reason that he was somewhat more recognizable over the rest was that his personality was to be a shady fucking cunt, moreso than the restThe leaders really were fucking bland
>The Map of Planet>By Chris Pine, Firaxis Designer & Creator of the Map of Planet>I'm going to talk about the Huge Map of Plant. The other one is simply a scaled down version of the same thing.>My first and foremost concern in designing the Map of Planet was to make Planet look ... like a real planet. The deep trench on the sides of the map shows the tectonic action of Planet as the continents are pushed apart. Another area of geothermal tension is near the South Pole, in the center. There are volcanic islands poking up, including the active Mount Planet, and the Geothermal Shallows just to the North. Craterous Lakes and Seas also pop up from place to place.>Another concern was that my Planet match Brian's story of what Planet must be. Planet "thinks" with a giant neural net consisting of the fungus. In order for this to work, however, the fungus had to be connected, even across continents. I also assumed the fungus would not grow on the Uranium Flats, and that it would be surrounding the Ruins. The fungus, which seems to originate from the Ruins, has severely scarred the terrain nearby, tearing up the choastline and denting the plains with small lakes.>For some reason, however, the fungus has stayed out of the very center of the Ruins, which, if you can get there, is an excellent place to build a city. The surrounding terrain is unusually rich in minerals, nutrients and energy. Surrounded by monoliths, all of your units will get upgrades and repairs whenever you want. And who's going to go in and get you? For those interested in mind worm hunting (whether for the money or for the military benefits), it is advised that you keep your bases to the south, however, and avoid building sensors. Only the fiercest of mind worms will roam near bases.
>>56655228>Further South on this long battlefield of a continent is Pholus Ridge. Produced by the clashing of two separate tectonic plates (one heading east from the Great Marine Rift and another almost stationary under the Sea of Pholus), it is a wealth of mineral resources. There is a particularly choice spot in the center, with energy and nutrient resources located nearby.>The Freshwater Sea has the cleanest, most nourishing (and fungus-free) water on Planet. It's excellent for hydroponics and experimental sea colonization. There are also some nice spots to build port bases along the northeast side of the sea. These serve as canals from the Freshwater Sea to the much larger Sea of Pholus and are conveniently located near mineral, nutrient and energy resources.>Upon seeding Planet with Unity pods, there was a small area of ocean that was accidentally seeded three times. The abundance of foreign material caused the sea fungus in the area to proliferate. (The fungus and the mind worms have been called "Planet's Immune System.") This New Sargasso is a dangerous place to navigate, but the rewards are great as well. Planet-friendly factions will find this a nice place for sea bases: secluded and full of fungus.
>>56655251>Because of the fungal network, mindworms can move rapidly. For factions who use this to their advantage, it's a small world after all.>There are several other places with excellent resource abundance. Morgan or other energy-conscious factions will want to build on the Sunny Mesa and in the Uranium Flats. Garland Crater is another great place to settle, especially as most of the fungus in the nearby area was destroyed by the blast. For fast growth, try the Monsoon Jungle -- the rainiest part of the rainiest continent, food is never a scarcity. However, very little rain ever makes it over the ranges to the east. Most goes into the jungle or into the big river dividing the continent, resulting in a desert to the east. It's not a great place to be, but at least the fungus and the mind worms think so, too.>For peace and quiet, try the Isle of Deianira, the island in the northern center of the map. Incidentally, I did not name any of the landmarks of Planet. Brian, who has a much better knowledge of mythology than I do, named them after Centaurs and a few other things from myths about Centaurs.
>>56634695What would every leader’s ideal ending be?
>>56653612Now I’m kinda curious, Indian leader seemed the most interesting albeit partially because I found her attractive
if i mod it enough can I make beyond earth passable enough to be worth playing?
>>56655627Morgan: Corner the energy marketSantiago: ConquestGaian: TranscendenceLal: Plebiscite for supreme leaderYang: TranscendenceZak: Eradicating the fungus completely (which should be its own ending condition)Miriam: Conquest
>>56656468There's plenty of SMAC mods, fortunately.
>>56643210Domai was on par with the original leaders and doesn’t deserve to be lumped in with the rest of the expansion. He shines a light on the most overlooked aspect of the setting, the living condition and treatment of the “drones”. It’s too bad he got such few lines thanks to being an expansion character, he’s a great concept.>The managers always talked about having the view from 30,000 feet. The only problem with having the view from 30,000 feet, is that at that height, everyone looks like ants.
>>56657385So... this thread seems to agree on replacing Lal with Domai?
thoughts on the new Civ 6 expansion?
tfw we'll never get an Alpha Centauri 2 that actually puts in the expansion factions when they're relevant instead of having to replace the originals in the lineup for a game.With even more non-combat options for gameplay.
>>56657443I vote every faction should exist in some way.Except maybe the aliens.
>>56657443Nope.Keep both.All human factions to be kept, perhaps tweek some.Remove alien ones.
>>56658296>All human factions to be kept, perhaps tweek some.Yeah some feel like they should be subfactions operating within the larger factions. Like the cult worshipping that kid would fall under Deidre.Others like the pirates should exist but shouldn't be organized enough to qualify as a faction.
>>56658439I say make them one base independents, who can cause problems, or be allies, depending on how you treat them.Like fungboy giving you native life units to use, or anonymous hacking your datalinks for the lulz-- I mean the data angels hacking your datalinks for the jazz.
>>56650525>She's not nervestapling people or feeding them to mindworms fluff-wise.Neither does Deidre. So?>Actually it does because she's literally the only faction to actually showcase any semblance of morality whatsoever. As already pointed out by others, religious morality is as arbitrary as any other code you can follow. There is no "universal" morality. And it's not nihilism to say so, that's just how things are>Which is good of her, considering the other factions are literally Hitler and Mengeles the whole bunch.And she's a Bible-trumping warmonger, so?>Rebellion against a morally corrupt regime is justified.Oh, so you are American. Nice to know.>"but Gaians feed people to mindworms!" is total bullshit that people latch to>Aside from the ingame fluff.Be so kind and quote it. Come on. The game is 18 years old. Surely you can find at least a single quote that indicates thatIf you consider Miriam sane, I've got very, very bad news for you. She's probably the least stable from the original seven, going for emotional argument each and every time she doesn't like something due to her purely personal judgement.
>>56652517Gaians from original seven.Drones for SMAX (but that's hardly a choice, really).Peacekeepers being second best after those two.And I would be really hard pressed to pick between Gaians and Drones. I'm not even sure if I can make that choice.
>>56653067They are nobodies. They literally have no personality or agenda whatsoever. A handful of virtual dolls to dress up according with your tech progress.
>>56653383>The very concept of human dignity is a Christian one
>>56656096Don't worry, she has no personality.Like everyone else in that game.>>56656468If you never played SMAC or any Civ game before 5 - it's going to be fine.If you played Civ 2-4, it's going to be meh, regardless of mods.If you played SMAC, you are going to hate it regardless of anything
>>56657443Of course fucking notThe only factions that are in dire need of removing are aliens. I personally find Data Angels to be redundant, but oh well.
>>56658704It’s funny because the Gaians and Free Drones would hate each other
>>56658990I know. Which makes it even harder choice for me.On one hand - sustainable, green community that tries to strike harmony and still can reach self-fulfilment.On the other - socialist paradise, where everyone is equal and reaches self-fulfilment.The difference between them is about both importance of the ecosystem around them and the approach toward it.
>>56658990Yeah, every time I play as Free Drones Deidre is hellbent on subtly wrecking my shit while Zeta is humping my leg
Why does everyone hate Miriam?
>>56659136'Cause she attacks me all the time.
>>56659160Maybe you should stop doing such horrible things, then.
>>56659136>She doesn't want to do this to her peopleExcept for the part where she absolutely does.
>>56659169I am not doing anything horrible. I am just trying to explore the cosmos and secure my existence. She is evil and mad.
>>56635190Yup.I referenced one of Lal's quotes - the one about barracks I think? About being in motion?Can't remember the exact wording off the top of my head.Either way, I attributed it as a real book by Pravin Lal, published in 1997 by Centauri Press.Hue hue
>>56635503>"Provost Zakharov! We've done it! The Planetmind is dead!"This really should've been doable in the game. At the least, it should've been an event that disabled the Ascent to Transcendence victory and instead forced a military, diplomatic, or economic victory.
>>56659298Would it be considered an atrocity?
>>56659320Only by the Gaians, who I imagine would wardec you when they decided that's what you were doing. Could be an interesting quest series.Fuck, I really want a remake of this game in the vein of maybe the Endless series, with the quests and the faction-specific victories.
>>56659320Maybe by aliens but fuck them
>>56659169Considering all it takes to be attacked by that crazy bitch is existing at all, I hardly see her "point" of fighting against horrible things.Especially when she starts unprovoked war. On three fronts. Against enemies so powerful each of them could blow her up to smittens
>>56659298>>56659320Doesn't the diplo victory hints on going in this direction?
>>56659360W E M U S T D I S S E N T
>>56635190I've quoted Gaian acolyte prayer as a joke once during class about daoism when working on my Masters in Sinology. Cue the lecturer finishing it aloud with me. And he was in his early 50s back then. He is a cool guy, but the moment he remembered the rest of the quote and followed with the joke he transcendent the scale of coolness.Best part - neither of us is native English speaker and SMAC wasn't published up here until GoG provided.
>>56659380The game hints that diplo victory is planet-wide mind control/extreme indoctrination with the techs leading up to it.
>>56659447PILGRIMZ AND SHEIT
>There are people ITT that would side with Deirdre and live alongside this disgusting parasites Imagine actually living alongside huge writhing bundles of giant worms whose natural instincts are to invade and torture your mind until you die
>Civ: BE was a bland shitfest>ended up unexpectedly finding AC successor in a sci-fi fantasy Endless LegendLife truly is weird. I wish that game had terraforming too, but oh wellWHO ACADEMY HERE
If you could add one new faction to SMAC what would it be?Personally I'd add neo-reactionaries.I'm a sucker for space empires.
>>56659611>You see in this dome the intermingling of native and earth plants. Outside, they are competitors, struggling over the trace elements required for life. Often, one destroys the other. Here, they are tended with care and kept well nourished. They thrive together, and the native fungus does not unleash its terrible defenses. As you can see, competition is unnecessary when resources are plentiful and population growth is controlled.And just to recall - there is no such thing as "plants" or "mindworms". There is just xenofungus and its different shapes.
>>56659611>thinking you literally have mindworms as your next-door neighbor. They're the gaians, not the cult of planet
>>56659782So... you want Miriam and Santiago merged into single faction?Thanks, I'd skip that.
>>56659611I'm sorry, but why did you described Cult of the Planet and then said "This is how Gaians work"?
>>56659799No thats nothing like what i said.Are you dumb or something?
>>56659092> Aki humping your legI think that counts as a win.
>>56659833He wanted neo-reactionaries. why kids are such pussies those days and can't just flat out say they are right-wing and reactionaries, but need to invent empty terms like alt-right or neo-reactionaries? So he wanted Santiago and Miriam merged, in about 2:3 proportion. If you can't see why this is reactionary - are you dumb or something?
>>56658809>>56658296>>56657743I can't make a mod that lets you have 8 factions in, if I could, I would be making it :) I just wanted to take OP's post and replace Lal with Domai.
>>56659788>The Mind Worms are the natural defenses of the living Planet—the white blood cells, if you will. In a world in which unassimilated thought represents danger, the Mind Worm seeks out concentrations of sentient mental energy and destroys them, ruthlessly and efficiently.I don’t like the idea of of being threatened with psychic assault if I don’t follow an alien body’s will.
>>56659426That's beautiful. No snark here.I've quoted "Not only God does play dice, but they are loaded" in a debate class, I think.
>>56659888Imagine this:Biggest map possibleAll factions (or at least all human factions) present.
>>56659918That's the one thing that Beyond Earth gets right... the Purity option.Because sometimes you just want to HFY.
>>56659918Considering not following the will of said body is the easiest way to die - I fail to see your point.And by "die" I don't mean being mind-raped, but the fact the Planet will bloom in quick succession and wipe everyone out, without even wanting to. So if you are not willing to cooperate, you are bringing your own and humankind's doom on yourself.
>>56659876>If you can't see why this is reactionaryWhat you said is reactionary buts it not neo-reactionary.Neo-reactionaries are neither particularly religious or particularly militaristic.If anything their more similar to the morganites than the spartans or the believers.You just don't know what neo-reaction is.
>>56659937Not a fan of the faction placements, but something a bit like this, eh?
>>56659976They are the exactly same thing as "just" reactionaries. The difference being self-consciousness that people have very bad (and very justified) associations with term "reactionary", hence the whole semantic bullshit.But in the end it still means the same shit and the same set of agendas and believes.And I really don't care, so no point trying to convince me otherwise. For me it's all the same hat of edgy kids never growing up from their edgy phase and apparently living waaaay too cozy lives to notice what kind of bullcrap they are "following".I'm really getting too old for this shit.
>>56658656>Oh, so you are American. Nice to know.Why bother making serious arguments when you aren't?
>>56659969And yet there are victories other than Transcendent. Do you really want to dedicate yourself to this?>You waited so long to heed us, earthdeidre, >Almost we pruned you, as we may yet prune your branches.
>>56660021The placement is utter shit, Jesus Christ... but other than that, yeah.At max map size, having just 7 factions means you are going to have more land than your maxed-out efficiency allows for. And that applies to all factions present. At 14 meanwhile you would have the right balance between having place for breath, but not exactly entire continent for yourself.
>>56660035>They are the exactly same thing as "just" reactionariesI have a feeling you're one of those self-assured retarded who will never be able to admit how wrong they are no matter.So here you go.You win.You can put the last word in if you wish but I'm not putting any more effort into educating you, something you've made abundantly clear is impossible.
>>56660039>Let's ignore the entire argument and focus entirely on one single thing!>Getting all salty about finger pointing at burgerland surely will solve it!
>>56660061None of those victories solve the issue of the Planet itself, anon. In fact, some of them make it WORSE. Military victory is probably the best showcase of it. You are preparing for war that is impossible to win from the get-go.
>>56633953Still Supremacy Units being named after divine beings is rather ironic given how techphobic Miriam is. >When Diedre picks Supremacy and Purity because fuck Planetlife, Earth lifeforms master plant race
>>56660106>make a trollish bait-filled reply>anyone who bothers to point it out gets LOL UR SALTY STAY MADThis is why nobody is taking you seriously.
>>56660168>Latch to single sentence>HURRRR BAIT DURRRRRRThis is how I'm now 100% sure you are American
>>56660131A unified humanity can either deal with the xenofungus or develop means to leave the planet. Becoming subservient to a barely cognizant alien fungus is not the only choice here.
>>56660195Master baiters usually double down when called out on their bait.
>>56659782A space-based faction. Someone just needs to see that living on plnetside is just a wee bit too hazardous and decide to camp on orbit immediatly they get tech for it. No idea on how to implement it while being balanced.>>56660021>Lal next to miriam and sandiegoNice knowing you
>>56660168>This is why nobody is taking you seriously.Irony is strong in you, kid. Seriously, how fucking insecure one must be to get this fucking mad about single joke about Americans rebelling against "tyrans" and finding that justifable in their cultural cachet, one of those rare things that actually make Americans unique. I mean what the fuck?
>>56660225So basically Orbital from Reign of Steel?I like that
>>56660226Loudly repeating over and over again that someone is mad doesn't actually mean they're mad.
>>56660039>>56660168>>56660222So rather than confronting his arguments, you are going to cry about bait?Sad. And pathetic. But then again, you consider Miriam a good and sane person, so oh well...
>>56660225>Someone just needs to see that living on plnetside is just a wee bit too hazardous and decide to camp on orbit immediatly they get tech for itIsn't this basically how the original plan was supposed to go?With garland staying up in orbit on the unity while everyone else heads down to planet?Maybe an alternate history where the unity isn't destroyed and garland isn't assassinated.
>>56660277>So rather than confronting his arguments>>56660039>Why bother making serious arguments when you aren't?
>>56660260Not the anon you are replying to, but how about focus on the part where the original anon pulverised your "arguments" about Miriam superiority, so rather than facing it, you quickly decided to declare bait?
>>56660301Prove it.Because so far, you've just decided to ignore them, rather than facing them. His post consisted of more than one sentence pulling a quick joke about colonial rebels
>>56660337>>56660310>every sincere reply is responded to with a mixture of shitty arguments and bait>finally get fed up, ask why bother having a serious discussion if you won't>immediately spam replies about being mad, colonial rebels, etc>declare victory when the other side no longer cares enough to pretend you're arguing in good faithEvery time.
>>56660390Oh, so you can't even touch the argument and going instead on retarded rant about baits and shit, in the process derailing the thread.Good for you. Still kind of sad, but good for you.
>>56660510You're all derailing the thread. It takes two to argue about non-arguments. Please stop.
>>56660547>It takes two to argueYou know this isn't true on an anonymous imageboard.
>>56660684But derailing thet hread in order to accuse someone else of derailing the thread is still retarded.ON TOPIC:Is it even remotely feasible for a remake to get made, considering this game does have a pretty dedicated cult following and a lot of nostalgia value? Or is the IP caught in copyright hell?
>>56660290>Garland is actually not dead, just stranded on some discarded lab complexes, their ship is ferrying along, courtesy of (REDACTED).>Disaster happens, parts of the ship is torn off but their anti-grav and life-supports still work. Stuck on orbit, the poor fools who didn't leave for crash landing or weren't excecuted by ships fiery descent are left for someone to watch over them.>Eventually, the remannts manage to salvage some botanic bays, alboratories, solar panels, etc. to upkeep their fragile wellbeing, all under the leadership of their captain Garland.>Eventually, they look down to see all the factions squabling below, and crash-land one of their pods somewhere. Unfortunately, it has been too long, and no one really believes it's Garland up there calling the shots They are right>Prime faction ideology is absolute monarchism. Garland knows best, was the original leader, is only one to know excact nuances of their very important original mission and has only become more magnificent after the ordeals suffered.. He is the absolute solar monarch of the orbiting remnant, and dictates everything that is done. The bloody deserters on the surface may think he is harsh, but it's still more than they deserve.
>>56660775 I like that fashion of SMAC
>>56660775IP is owned by EA IIRC, so I dread any possibility of a remake
>>56660775Oh hey, I made that image. Or that version of it. Glad to see it's still in use, my HDD got wiped ages ago.
Let's play a game of imagination /tg/. Imagine SMAC gets released today (disregard graphics). How many and which groups would get offended by it?Hard mode: other than fundies.
>>56661170Maybe I’m naive, but it seems like a pretty inoffensive game
>>56661170EveryoneMorgan would be shit for being a "white character with black skin"Lal would get shit from anti-globalists cause muh evil UNMiriam would get shit from fundiesSantiago would get shit from military nuts for being a womanZak would get shit from muh science atheistsDeirdre would get shit from Greenpeace for using the delicate fauna for millitaryAnd Yang would get shit from neo-commies for portraying communism as despoticAnd the whole game would get shit from flat-earthers
>>56661234see all the anti-lal posts>>56660850>8I think it's owned by Firaxis again, fortunately.I'd totally spend $5 or even $10 on a Starcraft style remaster.
>>56661170>>56661247Let's not forget /pol/ would shit on it for having a diverse cast.I admit it does bug me a little seeing forced diversity fucking everywhere, but this is a case where it actually makes quite a lot of sense and sending a specifically diverse crew actually is what I'd expect the UN to choose to do.
>>56660290We were kind of doing that before the salt storm>>56634375>>56634180>>56634148
>>56661314>see all the anti-lal postsAren’t those just because he’s the most boring faction?
>>56661364Like all the faction leaders he was a flawed individual.Playing AC you discover which flavour of social poison you can best stomach.I hate needless red tape and paperwork and despise makework clipboard jockies due to having had to deal with too many of them at work. As such I like Lal much less than most other faction leaders.
>>56661457Yeah. At least Yang makes the maglevs run on time!
>>56661525http://f3.to/portfolio/games/smac/for4chan_tg_smac_drones_lal.rarOkay, here's mini-SMAC with Domai-chan replacing Lal. Unzip in its own folder.
>>56661822Boreholes, underground bases...Yang has replaced the fungus.STRIKE THE EARTH!https://youtu.be/ytWz0qVvBZ0
>>56661822This really is the best way for the Hive to be.Not so much individual bases, but one huge sprawling mass of tunnels, linked by supply crawlers, mines, and hydroponics farms.Each nexus in the tunnel network (the equivalent of a base) is designed to be identical to another; you've no way of knowing where you are, apart from the people around you. And they could vanish at any moment, spirited away to another hive warren... or perhaps you did. It's difficult to tell.
>>56661951Good thing there is a solution to that. By the point that ICS is going full steam, the planet would be spamming mindworm boils everywhere. So a couple of planetbusters won't change a thing.
>>56633860I loaded this "mini SMAC" thing. It has a few changes from the vanilla games (more premade units mostly) and it also has a tiny map of Planet.It's cute.Playing Morgans, I found myself into a fight with the Pirates.So I bribed the Council and erased the sea via solar shade.
>>56662298>Zakharov honestly thinks he can out tech a base sprawling Yang or Domai.
>>56662900Say that to my quantum planetbusters.
Who's your favorite leader?>Most alien and interesting philosophy>Fun and unique gameplay mechanic provides the most story and gameplay integration>Very strong to play as>Most impressive individual among all the leaders with nigh inhuman levels of willpower and mental capabilitiesYang's got my vote. I just love how willing he is to remold humanity into his ideal. When I think Alpha Centauri, I think Yang.
>>56660035>>56660102From what I can understand, "neoreactionaries" are batshit insane nihilists like Nick Land who want to rush headlong towards totalitarianism and eventual human extinction in the hopes that it will somehow result in transhumanism and make anime real. A neoreactionary faction would basically be some horrible amalgamation of all the worst parts of Morgan, Yang, and Aki.>>56661247>And Yang would get shit from neo-commies for portraying communism as despoticGommies consider Domai to be /ourguy/, not Yang.
So what actually happens in the transcendence victory?
>>56661822>why didn't you dissent.jpg
>>56658656>religious morality is as arbitrary as any other code you can follow.It's the only one that gives legroom for the real morality we have in the real world.Everything else is relativistic nihilism that isn't internally coherent in and of itself. (as it either denies objective truth value or arbitrarily and paradoxically excuses itself as the one example of an objective truth value)
>>56665114Which is funny since you're all more Deirdre crossed with Morgan than anything.
>>56666218You become some kind of ageless hivemind with Planet and all the other Ascendants.
>>56666888Um... religious backed morality is just as relativistic nihilism, you know.Plot twist, bitch - morality is entirely human-made construct.
>>56667290>Um... religious backed morality is just as relativistic nihilism, you know."Claims about an Objective Unchanging External Truth is just the same as a Relativistic Negation of Objective Truth Claims (itself excused)".Do you understand the terms you're using at all?I seriously doubt it.>morality is entirely human-made constructWhich makes it no less true, you pseudo-intellectual humanities-infested "social construct"-sucking worm. That's not an argument, it's a statement and a non-sequitur one at that.
>>56666888Yes anon, religions totally don't deny objective truth value or arbitrarily and paradoxically excuses as that one example of objective truth. Totally.I can absolutely see why having wrong sexual drive, eating wrong meals and wearing wrong clothes makes people into evil demons that need to be wiped out. I also see why not being a leech neet meditating entire days with ultimate goal of transcendence is the superior to being lay person. Let's also not forget about strong emphasis on us-vs-them stances spread all over the place, true believer. Oh, and I totally can see human sacrifice as valid way of handling shit.Are there any bases I didn't cover left?
>>56667381>Morality is not social constructAnd then fundies wonder why nobody takes them serious
>>56667420inferior, not superior, my bad
>>56667381Oh the irony
>>56667420Please tell me you are just trolling or roleplaying as Miriam and not, you know, being serious
>>56667420>religions totally don't deny objective truth valueCorrect, they hold up their own as the one objective truth unapologetically. (unlike nihilists and relativists who pretend they don't but require an a prior objective truth statement as a starting point, "everything is relative, except relativism", "nothing is true, except that nothing is true")>I can absolutely see why having wrong sexual drive, eating wrong meals and wearing wrong clothes makes people into evil demonsNot only doesn't that completely misunderstand most theologies, or the underlying material reasoning behind them, it also doesn't have anything to do with the former argument which you've now made clear you didn't grasp at all.>Let's also not forgetYour sperging misunderstanding of even basic high school learning of religions are noted. They're irrelevant to the argument being made however.>Are there any bases I didn't cover left?All of them, but that tends to happen when you're the kind of brainlet who thinks "it's a social construct" and plebbit atheism+ pophistory constitutes an argument.
>>56664534Pravin Lal is the best, by far.>Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master
>>56667518Oh, so you are not just pretending
>>56667437>>56667461>exact same illiterate misunderstanding of what's written.There's nothing in there about religions not being a social construct. It's not an argument at all to say that they are in this context is the point. In short, samefagging doesn't help your argument anon. (nor does the memegenerator pics)
>>56667518It's sad that it's yet another SMAC thread that ends up with American fundie getting ass-mad that religious conduct is just arbitrary and made-up as any other code. It's tiresom after so many years
>>56667555>/tg/ is just one person>ONE!Does it mean you are me?
>>56667531His corrupt bureacratic institution is the exact kind that would live up to that quote tho
>>56667565Neither American nor religious, and most of the sperging happened because it was pointed out that Miriam is the only basegame leader that gives any credence at all to morality. (which pissed off some plebbit-tier nihilist)
>>56667594First, just because he's the best leader doesn't make his the best faction. Second, nice headcanon you've got there.
>>56659136Because she ruins their fun in a game where the players want to be ruthless and amoral as possible. In a world where literally every leader treats the people under their care as expendible commodities to be used only for the purpose of advancing their personal agenda, only Miriam actually fights back against it and calls them on their bullshit. Of course the player who joyfully inserts themself into the role of the autocrat with absolute power hates her because she's a killjoy and ruining the fun of being an unassailable god-king of your faction who always knows best. Objectively she would be the best leader to live under because she is the only one who has her head screwed on straight about the value of human life.
>>56667656>just because he's the best leaderHe's shit though. Weak leader who couldn't keep his crew together and spends his time fucking clones of people who inevitably leave him.>nice headcanonYou mean RL canon? Don't make me start posting Saudi UN officials.
>>56667734>Weak leader who couldn't keep his crew together [Citation Needed]>spends his time fucking clones of people who inevitably leave him.She obviously died. Are you so autistic you can't comprehend the idea of a euphemism?>Don't make me start posting Saudi UN officials.In that case, I guess Santiago is the best leader because muh Thermopylae.
>>56667805>[Citation Needed]The fact that they're all hostile to him.>She obviously died. Just like all the others no doubt.>In that case, I guess Santiago is the best leader because muh Thermopylae.Except that Santiago is just riffing on cultural remnants while the UN is very clearly the same organization that's still unfortuantely existing RL.
>>56667827He's just the head of the UN Peacekeeping Forces, not the entire UN. He was never in charge of Unity, he's just a glorified policeman.
>>56667904>>56667827Also, everyone on the entire ship was somehow associated with the UN, which apparently had gotten its shit together sufficiently in the future in order to actually bring humanity to the stars. Just because his faction is the only one that kept "UN" in the name doesn't mean that they're any worse than any other faction, or that they're somehow comparable to the modern UN.
Are the novels worth reading in their own right? Do they have the same good story telling?>>56652517>I'd say that the Free Drones were more about free individuals working together for mutual benefit similar to the philosopher Max Stirner's "union of egoists" concept, simultaneously individualist and collectivist. What made you think that? Wouldnt the more individualist data angles be closer to that?The most forgotten and overlooked of all the factions imo
>>56668003>The most forgotten and overlooked of all the factions imoFor a good reason.
>>56667730No, people hate her because her AI is insanely aggressive to the point where it becomes distracting.Anyway, am I the only one who thinks the Spartans got shafted when the factions were being designed? They are a painfully generic riff on the Cold War era U.S. Army. And while that is serviceable, I think they would have fit better and had more room to be fleshed out if they had drawn less inspiration from that and more inspiration from survivalists, gun nuts, conspiracy theorists, and other right wing groups from the 90s who wouldn't be good fits for Miriam or Morgan.
>>56668053>more inspiration from survivalistsI wish the game engine and pacing could support this idea. Maybe as colonies receiving 25% of each unworked tile production or nutrients representing small groups of hardcore survivalists venturing into the wild. Or units suffering less damage and moving faster through fungus tiles if they were treated as miasma.
>>56659136>>56667730You are forgetting the part where for the believers not belonging to their religion by degult makes one amoral.Unlike some of the other factions she is a complete totalitarian. There can be no room for any other form of thinking and she is desires to violently force everyone to conform to her religion or be destroyed.Whats more its an ideology thats wholly unable to deal with the very unique circumstances of the planet. Shes is pretty close to being a borg luddite. hybrid.
>>56659136The only difference between Dierdre and Miriam is that you can *see* the army of mind worms one controls. Miriam is every bit as toxic of a personality.
>>56668194>luddite"But it was never the streets that were evil."
>>56668199One is real and observable ingame and the other is only assmad 4chan ramblings you mean?
>>56667032>you're all more Deirdre crossed with Morgan than anything.Wait what? I can kind of see why you might think Deirdre because of dirty hippies but Morgan is a blatant lolbertarian. The main faction agenda for Domai is literally "emancipation of the working class", which is pretty much the central message of gommunism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATb7CXX-Kc0
>>56668206>"But it was never the streets that were evil.""Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind" -In reference to AI"And what of the immortal soul in such transactions? Can this machine transmit and reattach it as well? Or is it lost forever, leaving a soulless body to wander the world in despair?" -in reference to matter transportation "Beware, you who seek first and final principles, for you are trampling the garden of an angry God and he awaits you just beyond the last theorem"There is a reason for the tech penalty of their system of leadership. They have a huge aversion to technology and non religious knowledge. Whislt they are happy to use some of it their anti technology and planet leanings means they have to have a parasitic and eventually predatory relationship towards others.
>>56668318>In reference to AIIn reference to the Self-Aware Colony. She's not talking about AIs themselves, just their use as a totalitarian government that apparently disintegrates people for the crime of vandalism. Putting it that way, she's kind of got a point. > At atrociously high energy states, the properties of matter change subtly and new miracles become possible. The Plasma Accretion process is now dangerous and difficult to control, but its products will soon become commonplace in our society. She's still a scientist.
>>56668318>The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress.She was also pretty damn good at bantz.>The Morgans fear what may not be purchased, for a trader cannot comprehend a thing that is priceless.
>>56668003>Are the novels worth reading in their own right? Do they have the same good story telling?Not really. They're not like, godawful or anything, they're just sorta skippable. They're sufficient and nothing else.Also, they have a massive downer ending.
>>56668373>In reference to the Self-Aware Colony.Look in the context of her other quotes particularly -Already we have turned all of our critical industries, all of our material resources, over to these...things...these lumps of silver and paste we call nanorobots. And now we propose to teach them intelligence? What, pray tell, will we do when these little homunculi awaken one day announce that they have no further need for us? Its the intelligence in the machines that gives her the issues not the totalitarianism - which her faction is totally for so long as it is their totalitarianism.>She's still a scientist.You know luddites still used machines right? They weren't primitivists who went around smashing their looms, their beef was with the more advanced technology. Same with Miram but instead its AI, teleportation and transcendence. Why else do you think Miram's faction have a negative 4 penalty to research (assuming you use her form of government) and are the only faction with an aversion to knowledge?
>>56668396>She was also pretty damn good at bantz.Absolutely, which is why people often forget about the loopy and insane parts.>Not really. They're not like, godawful or anything, they're just sorta skippable.Thats a shame I was hoping it might be able to provide some of those interesting insights into technology and ideology.
>>56668475So in an earlier tech we see that she's concerned that intelligent artificial beings might one day turn on us.And then, later, we see the context of "We Must Dissent," and she's speaking out against these same artificial intelligences being put in positions of power over man in what is certainly a cruel and dystopian context.Yeah, no wonder she speaks out against them. I'm unconvinced this isn't a perfectly rational response in the context of the setting itself, which is actually quite fucking dark.
>>56668538>the setting itself, which is actually quite fucking dark.This. One of the things I love most about SMAC is that it's dark without being grimdark or edgy. Its darkness is obscured by the perspective and the UI and the wondrous science and mysticism that happens, but holy shit is this game fucking dark.>research hospital>whatever is inside, which we're not actually told, is so horrifying the witnesses have to be nerve stapled to get them to stop panicking>recycling tanks>It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people.Not to mention>Richard Baxton piloted his Recon Rover into a fungal vortex and held off four waves of mind worms, saving an entire colony. We immediately purchased his identity manifests and repackaged him into the Recon Rover Rick character with a multi-tiered media campaign: televids, touchbooks, holos, psi-tours--the works. People need heroes. They don't need to know how he died clawing his eyes out, screaming for mercy. The real story would just hurt sales, and dampen the spirits of our customers.
>>56664534> Who's your favorite leader?I love playing Morgan, because he's stupid good at just building, and I'm a builder at heart.I don't really want to go to war, I just want to build, build, build, and have happy cities, and have all the special projects, and lots of psyche funding, and build.I know Morgan by plot is more cutthroat, he'd care less about his citizens or longevity, but in my head I suppose I play a Morgan who never really left the comforts of Earth and is mostly concerned with creating a nation of sustained hedonism.When someone inevitably fucking attacks, I start a huge production line of ships, just buying them outright with my stacked energy reserves and sending them to go kill the thing. Really good at instantly going from zero to one hundred.Main problem is I always, ALWAYS end up going to war with Planet. That fucker. I don't want to join your damn hivemind. I'd sooner burn out the entire fungal neural net. Even if the rest of the world goes with it.YOU HEAR ME PLANETI'LL FUCKING DESTROY YOU SOME DAY
>The Warrior's bland acronym, MMI, obscures the true horror of this monstrosity. Its inventors promise a new era of genius, but meanwhile unscrupulous power brokers use its forcible installation to violate the sanctity of unwilling human minds. They are creating their own private army of demons. >I think, and my thoughts cross the barrier into the synapses of the machine, just as the good doctor intended. But what I cannot shake, and what hints at things to come, is that thoughts cross back. In my dreams, the sensibility of the machine invades the periphery of my consciousness: dark, rigid, cold, alien. Evolution is at work here, but just what is evolving remains to be seen. Miriam is not the only one concerned about this shit.
>>56668538>I'm unconvinced this isn't a perfectly rational response Because its not a necessary outcome and it means sacrificing that huge benefit of reduced labour. Notice how the technology only grants that extra policing in societies which already allow extra policing and nerve stapling? >in the context of the setting itself, which is actually quite fucking dark.And she is a key part of that darkness which you seem to be forgetting. You have those who embrace technology for tyrannical ends and those who oppose it to tyrannical ends. Dont see the irony of the most violent and spy heavy (of the original factions) leader projecting her totalitarianism onto others?
>>56668712>>56660775BUILD. MORE. FORMERS.
>>56668750>And she is a key part of that darkness which you seem to be forgetting.Literally all of them are. That's the idea. It's why the setting is so great and memorable, it's not just that the characters are great but that they're balanced, each of them is balanced against the other six and none of them are redundant. It's why I never really liked SMAX, a lot of the new human factions feel like redundant hybrids of the others.
>>56668138Expanding on this, I'd love to see Alpha Centauri game or mode which would focus more on interaction between factions. Say, leaders didn't split apart before landing. Unity landed, UN established several small colonies in close proximity. New factions start somewhere next to the UN control core which they all treat as the hub for trading and recruiting new supporters. UN Peacekeepers start with all the basic tech and some buildings already constructed, better and safer position with many bases but become NPC faction controlled by Lal. Now all other factions get only limited population and tech. Colonies grow very slowly initially due to lack of safety and comforts (except for Morgan). Factions can convince people living in UN controlled zone or from other factions to join them to grow their colonies. New followers move through tiles to reach your bases. Roads increase max cap on migration per turn, fungus tiles prevent the migration (except for Spartnas who receive half of the followers this way) but better tech of original faction alleviate this problem. Yang can steal followers from other bases North Korean style, Cha Dawn and Miriam send missionaries, Morgan broadcasts shows about talents living and their lavish lifestyle, etc. Police stops citizens from moving away, other social engineering picks affect the rate at which people join or leave you.
>>56668827Except for Lal -whilst personally a bit creepy his faction is very middle of the road- I certianly agree which is why I felt the need to deal with the Miriam did nothing wrong mentality.
>>56668876Lal clings to a dead system, a union of nations that have already ceased to exist by the time the game starts, his "Democratic" society never once votes against him in 500 years, and his canon ending is naming himself Supreme Ruler of humanity. And let's not mention the cloning vats.
>>56668919Dont you see how bland un undystopic that is compared to all the other original factions? Whilst others are creating authoritarian cults, creating a war with planet and making genejacks hes just reviving and leading a bureaucratic and semi democratic organisation that espouses balance and tolerance. His faction is also the only one who seems to be able to properly appreciate planet without worshiping it.
>>56667938Not to mention all the leaders still adhere to some sort of UN Charter, there's regular voting on issues and they shit on leaders who commit atrocities, clearly their UN is working.They also keep using the charter to ask shit from each other.
>>56668919Lal actually steps down early in the game and leaves his nation to an elected council, to which he's "just" an advisor.
>>56669045Putin was just an advisor to Medvedev.
>>56669065That's why I put quotes on the just, man. It's not really clear how much he abuses his position.
>>56668280It's kind of weird to see the game itself also admit that this scale of "fro everyone's happiness" policy would be disasterous to planet. If the game was done today, pretty much everyone who likes Domai would be up in the arms how it would be not "accurate" or real whatever their favorite name for the ideology is.
>>56667652Yes anon, it takes to be "plebbit-tier nihilist" to be aware Miriam is full of shit
>>56668053Anon, Spartans are late 90s Latin America + late 90s American gun nutjobs. What the hell you are even complaining about?
>>56668919I will one day die out of old age and I will still be unable to understand why some idiots are so fucking against Lal and not just as meme-posting
>>56669065I'm sorry, but did you just made a strawman based entirely on assumption Russia was democracy at any point and not a blatant oligarchy from the get go, that for purely economical reason had to keep the pretense of adhering to own constitution before said constitution was changed in favour of maintaining the oligarchy in power?Because it either takes to be an idiot or a troll (why not both?) to put in the same line Putin and his clique and on the other hand the most idealistic visions of democracy, declaring them the same. That even goes without the massive amount of head-canon required to demonise Lal, starting with the never-ending meme about clone fucking. Because apparently grasping poetry is above some people.
>>56665114Where did you get the idea that nick land is a neo-reactionary?He calls himself an accelerationist.If you want to learn what neo-reaction is from someone who actually calls themselves a neo-reactionary then read the writings of mencius moldbug
>>56669482>He calls himself XNot the anon you are replying to, but it doesn't really matter what he calls himself. The important part is what he represents.
>>56668280Both are pig-disgusting materialists who doesn't recognize the importance of non-material considerations because "hurr everything springs from material conditions", even when it obviously doesn't as shown by groups of people under the same material conditions turning out very differently.I've spent way too much time around Gommies and "emancipation of the working class" is hardly even a concern outside of theological discussions that are to be won and not implemented. If anything they want the emancipation of cliqueish upper-middle class neoliberals who like everything about them except the lacking a e s t h e t i c s.
>>56670256>Thread almost archived>/pol/ show ups to shitpostEvery. Fucking. Time.
>>56669353Because Lal is a dystopian cancer, just like all the others, except people like you unironically champion his form of cancer.
>>56670266>it's /pol/ to continue a discussion because of muh bollidicsNeck yourself newfag
>>56670405>Muh dystopian red tape!Lal has -1 efficiency, not -10.
>>56670437>Muh dystopian 1:1 of an NWO with an international bootheel firmly applied to the face of humanity with access to all of the inhuman technology applications as the other factions except with the power of pretending to bitch about them and more voting power to not be punished over them"It's just redtape lulz".
>>56670462> NWOWell it IS a new world.
>>56670648Yeah, technically Lal is the OWO anyway. He represents the part of the Unity that wants to continue on like the original mission had planned.
>>56670418After you sir!
>>56670256>Both are pig-disgusting materialists who doesn't recognize the importance of non-material considerationsSuch as? Even the idealistic mumbo-jumbo like "family values" and "community" is heavily influenced by people's material conditions- rampant consumerism and our hyper competitive "fuck you, I got mine" capitalist culture are some of the main reasons why social bonds are so weak these days and society is so atomized. But hey, keep thinking the ruling class will help you as more and more jobs are replaced by automation, its not like they're already pushing policies meant to cull the poor like that healthcare bill or anything>I've spent way too much time around Gommies and "emancipation of the working class" is hardly even a concern outside of theological discussions that are to be won and not implemented. If anything they want the emancipation of cliqueish upper-middle class neoliberals who like everything about them except the lacking a e s t h e t i c s.[spoilers]I can't say I've ever seen the same, pretty much everyone on the left is outspokenly opposed to neoliberals and constantly focuses on the economic issues facing workers, even the milquetoast socdems. Are you one of those weirdos who things that Obama was a commie or something? Or are you talking about some cesspit like leddit?Sorry for going a bit off-topic but the thread is on autosage anyway
>>56671085>Such as? Case in point. You cannot conceive of a non-materialist worldview and resort to attacking cliches. (cliches gommies are prone to attack even in their inoffensive forms I might add)>are some of the main reasons why social bonds are so weak these days "The weakness of social bonds" largely comes down to turning what used to be community and family-based support bases into state-driven ones and associating with sociopathic Gommies.>keep thinking the ruling classAre the enemy, and Gommies are their allies.>are replaced by automationNot an issue, Mr. Snakesoil-salesman. The big industrial automation replacements have already occured (which is evident if you follow robotics convention news) and we're no more in immediate danger of them than we are of climate change. >its not like they're already pushing policies meant to cull the poor like that healthcare billAmerican nonsense, what a surprise.>I can't say I've ever seen the sameThen i'd say you're either too inundated in their bubble to notice or you haven't been around many Gommies. It's incredibly prevalent and noticeable how quickly actual working class concerns, and people, are shouted down when they pop up once every year or so.>pretty much everyone on the left is outspokenly opposed to neoliberals Only in the aesthetics department, actual policies they share roughly 70% of as can be seen in their activist's areas of focus.>constantly focuses on the economic issues facing workersNot even close. Unions are turning more and more apolitical and/or nationalist thanks to Soc Dems and Gommies increasingly having nothing in common with them>Or are you talking about some cesspit like leddit?More like Revleft, Leftypol and real life Gommies.
>>56671176>You cannot conceive of a non-materialist worldview and resort to attacking cliches.You failed to provide any examples friendo>turning what used to be community and family-based support bases into state-driven onesWhich is, again, is a result of capitalism allowing the ruling class to consolidate ever-growing levels of power>Are the enemy, and Gommies are their allies.Assume you're a /pol/ type going from the rest of your post, you guys are the ones who constantly support policies that serve the ruling class or politicians that do. Many of your organizations get funding from billionaires while the establishment in most western countries is blatantly opposed to the left- and you wonder why things are going to shit>The big industrial automation replacements have already occuredHere in burgerland truck drivers are the most common job in the country, and its set to be wiped out by self-driving cars. Even if it were just that one job, that alone is enough to create massively increased competition in the job market and drive down already low wages>American nonsense, what a surprise.You Yuropoors have been getting dickslapped with austerity measures too last I checked>Only in the aesthetics department, actual policies they share roughly 70% of as can be seen in their activist's areas of focus.Gommies here in burgerland focus on issues like healthcare, low wages, and stopping pointless wars. I dunno about most of Europe but Jezza over in Bongland talks about similar issues. Are those not things that are important to workers?>More like Revleft, Leftypol and real life Gommies.I dunno about revleft but I found the dreaded hacker known as Left Eye Paul earlier this year because you guys treat it as a boogeyman, and they genuinely care about helping workers, I dunno what you want from us
>>56670750Which is why he's the "default" faction.Anyway some other anon has backported the Drones to SMAC and made it a download, up thread.
>>56671565>europoorsCheck again. Even without the UK, if the EU was a country it would be #1 in GDP, R&D spending, and industrial output.
>>56633860Bye thread! Thanks to all who showed up, even the /pol/acks.And never let it be said that /tg/ doesn't get shit done.
>>56671565>You failed to provide any examples friendoThere's not much of a point in arguing cultural outputs with someone who has a fundamentalist top-down belief in material conditions.>Which is, again, is a result of capitalismRight, because Marxism has led to such strong families in practice. Meanwhile if I open Leftypol it would only take a single thread to find that half the board absolutely loathes the notion of strong extended families and want some kind of government creche to handle all family concerns.>you guys are the onesNot /pol/ but literally the only ones opposing the status quo politicians in Europe are the nationalists. Take that as you will.>funding from billionairesThat's generally Leftists here, and bank loans they don't have to return.>and its set to be wiped out by self-driving cars.Due to the inherent issues with neural networks and legal liability it's unlikely to happen anytime soon.>that alone is enough to create massively increased competition in the job market and drive down already low wagesThe biggest factor in wage dumping of blue collar jobs is immigration, legal and illegal, something the Left has been championing hardcore since the 70s.>austerity measures Largely the countries that put their trust in Europhile SocDems.>issues like healthcare, low wages, and stopping pointless wars.Soc Dems here haven't cared about healthcare since the 60s, push for wage dumping through immigration and want us to join warmonger associations like NATO and efforts in Libya/Syria/countryoftheweek.>JezzaHas been part of a party that has opposed it all since Foot. He's all talk and protects the Rotherham child-pimps and racists like Diane Abbott.>and they genuinely care about helping workersDelusional. LP couldn't care less about workers unless it involves taking their children from them. It's probably the least worker-friendly board i've ever been on, unsurprising since most of them are /lit/-faggots who thinks theory equals reality.