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  • File : 1246278572.jpg-(36 KB, 575x342, OMGItsTheRavnicaLogo.jpg)
    36 KB OP 06/29/09(Mon)08:29 No.5038665  
    Hey /tg/. OP of last night's Ravnica thread here.

    Once we got past the OH BAW ALIGNMENTS I HATE BEING PRODUCTIVE stuff, we actually made some solid progress toward establishing a Ravnica role-playing system.

    I'm going to toss up all the notes and finished content we came up with last night so we can continue.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)08:32 No.5038677
    Confirmed Information

    1. Groups may either use the alignment grid you'll see further down, or stick with the M:tG color wheel.
    2. Each guild has a lenient alignment requirement (such as no evil, any good, etc...)
    3. There are several generic classes playable by PC's who do not wish to join a guild, at least at first. Leveling up as these classes does not necessarily make you less powerful, just less connected.
    4. Each guild has three guild-specific classes, and several guild-specific prestige classes that may be taken during your time spent in that guild.
    5. When you join a guild, you are allowed to switch in the future, whether as a spy or to genuinely leave your current guild, without game penalty. This of course must be role-played correctly.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)08:37 No.5038690
    More Confirmed Information

    6. Every time you level up, you receive an allocatable 'mana point'. When you receive this mana point, or at some moment before leveling up again, you must choose a color for this mana point. Colorless and hybrid are not options.
    7. Abilities become available to you based on mana point allocation. Number of mana points does *not* signify amount of available mana - it signifies what types of spells you can/choose to cast.

    When you join a guild, you get a signet that acts as two mana points, one of each guild color. If you receive a signet at a level during which you have already allocated your mana point, you lose your mana point for the next level.

    For example: If you wish to play a Wojek Embermage type character, aligned to Boros, your signet will provide you with the base Whi 1/Red 1 allowing you to pursue a career in the Boros ranks. Thereafter, you should focus on taking mana points in Red, allowing your fire-based spells to increase in strength.

    If you want to play a Wojek Apothecary, conversely, focus on white to improve your healing abilities.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)08:44 No.5038720
    What about other MtG worlds?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)08:46 No.5038725
    More Confirmed Information

    8. Your guild signet serves many functions: First, it provides you with identification for other members of your guild, and for members of (loosely) allied guilds.

    Second, it provides your 'core' two mana points, dictating what type of spells you can cast. If a player switches guilds, he receives a new signet and these core mana points are altered to reflect his new guild. If a player chooses to remain unaligned, he loses that second mana point that would have come with the sigil, but is not limited to two colors and may cast more versatile spells.

    Third, your signet acts as an emergency reserve for magical energy. By returning to one of your guild's headquarters or safe houses, your signet will recharge, providing you with enough mana to cast a few spells should you find yourself in an area where you cannot access mana of your colors. When a signet is empty, it is useless until given ample time to recharge (more info on this later).

    9. We will not be using spells as large in scope as those in the card game, most likely. In the game, it is assumed that, for the most part, Planeswalkers are tapping into vast reserves of mana to cast massive spells, whereas the PC's are not Planeswalkers, so their spell casting will be on a smaller scale.

    10. There are nine playable races: Humans, Ogres, Elves, Dryads, Goblins, Viashino, Centaur, Loxodon, and Vedalken. More races, such as Minotaur and Cyclops, may come later. These races have predispositions for guilds, but are not required to join a certain guild in order to be played (Vedalken may join Orzhov, Centaur may join Rakdos, etc...)
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)08:47 No.5038731
    Second, it provides your 'core' two mana points, dictating what type of spells you can cast. If a player switches guilds, he receives a new signet and these core mana points are altered to reflect his new guild. If a player chooses to remain unaligned, he loses that second mana point that would have come with the sigil, but is not limited to two colors and may cast more versatile spells.

    To clarify on this (I used poor wording): Mana points do not only dictate what spells you can cast; they also determine the abilities martial classes can take, in a system similar to 4e in that respect.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)08:50 No.5038742

    Being not familiar with the Ravnica setting, i can't really comment on this. Just wish you good luck in your endeavour.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)08:51 No.5038744
    Selesnya Classes

    Transluminant: Transluminants eschew such worldly pleasures as food, drink, and material wealth with the aim of pursuing mental goals. They believe that salvation and spiritual liberation are effected through an austere lifestyle of meditation, chastity and self-mortification. These practices enable transluminants to transcend normal levels of concentration, enlightenment and physical agility.

    Trainer: The trainer embodies wanderlust and solitude, foregoing human interaction in favor of animal companions, both summoned and naturally existing. Their favored companion is the wolf, though high level trainers may wander with many different species of animal companion, and bond with them to summon great wurms and elementals for very little magical expenditure.

    Evangel: Evangels are characterized by their charisma, weaving spells and words to claim control of the weak-minded. Their strength lies in mental domination: the evangel prefers to remain behind the scenes, out of the combat, inspiring allies and orchestrating the downfall of Selesnya's enemies. Masters of the song, Selesnya's evangels bring guild members together in chorus: many, yet one, separate in body yet speaking with a single voice.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)08:52 No.5038748
    Well, feedback on general mechanics and info from someone unfamiliar with the setting is equally valuable, if you've any inclination. :P

    If not, thanks.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)09:00 No.5038785
    Gruul Classes

    Scrapper: "The Gruul aren't satisfied with just smashing things. They continue smashing other things with the things they just smashed." The scrapper is characterized by this philosophy. Thoughtless berserkers, scrappers are comfortable only when surrounded by chaos and carnage, often flying into rages of extreme physical strength and detachment from pain, wrecking everything in their paths.

    Skybreaker: The skybreaker commands the skies and the earth. Shamanistic in nature, she can summon storms and split the sky with streaks of controlled lightning, or set the ground to rumbling beneath her feet. Master of fire, earth and lightning, the skybreaker focuses her rage into devastating magical combinations, sending friend and foe alike for cover.

    Feral Animist: The feral animist is in tune with wildlife, weaving complex spells to imbue their forms with animal characteristics such as strength and speed. Darting to and fro in the chaos of battle, carefully combining strikes and spells to maximum effect, the feral animist is a force to be feared by any enemy.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)09:06 No.5038818
    I know it's early /tg/, but is no one interested in making (relative) history?
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)09:08 No.5038832
    op here lol sup nigga´z check out 4chen's new adresss: www.anonloltalk.com (remove lol)

    > dgilggcggfsfsnnnfjnjhmmfmgysggyggmymymdipfjs
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)09:10 No.5038842
         File : 1246281011.jpg-(18 KB, 350x489, EvilSpy.jpg)
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    OP has clearly been using OP in the name field.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)09:11 No.5038849
    Who can I trust?!
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)09:12 No.5038855
    Have you got any classes for the other guilds?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)09:18 No.5038881
    Rough Alignment Grid (Stop arguing this you can always change it yourselves.)

    Rakdos: CE
    Simic: CN
    Azorius: LN
    Selesnya: LN
    Orzhov: LE
    Izzet: CN
    Gruul: CE
    Boros: LE
    Dimir: NE
    Golgari: N

    Alignment Requirements

    Boros: Any non-neutral good.
    Simic: Any neutral.
    Rakdos: Chaotic evil.
    Golgari: Any non-good neutral.
    Azorius: Any lawful.
    Dimir: Any non-good.
    Selesnya: Any non-evil.
    Orzhov: Any non-good lawful.
    Izzet: Any chaotic.
    Gruul: Any non-lawful non-good.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)09:18 No.5038886
    Yes. I'll have them up soon.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)09:19 No.5038891

    Trust the Spy, he's known for honesty!
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)09:27 No.5038924
    Boros Classes

    Soldier: It is the responsibility of a soldier of Boros to enforce the law, violently or otherwise. They are starkly loyal to their cause. Martial fighters, soldiers of Boros strike with sword and shield with a precision that comes only from years of training and discipline.

    Apothecary: Despite their lawfulness, blood is spilled in almost every altercation of which the soldiers of Boros are made aware, and, though they would never admit it, not all of that blood is the enemy's. This is where the Wojek apothecaries come in, utilizing healing energies to mend mortal injuries and stanch the collective Boros blood flow.

    Trumpeter: Boros Trumpeters are a source of inspiration for allies and chilling fear for enemies. While it is their preference to avoid combat in favor of aiding allies with music to improve morale and even bolster physical capabilities, they are no strangers to the sword or the spell, launching sonic strikes from their instruments to disable enemies and taking advantage of their helplessness with cold steel and a grim smile.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)09:32 No.5038940
    Gotta go for a bit /tg/. Any input is appreciated.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)09:56 No.5039016
    Bump for truth and justice.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)10:01 No.5039040
    I wrote up a sample encounter for investigating an Gruul Clans claimed area sans any numbers at all for encountering.

    Is there any particular guild on guild violence or anything people want developed into something of a skin?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)10:04 No.5039047
    Papa wants some Simic on Gruul action.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)10:07 No.5039057
    Lawmakers vs. Lawbreakers (Azoreus, Gruul), Scientifiic rivalry (Simic, Izzet)
    Good Vs' Evil (Boros, Rakdos)
    Some iconic matches
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)10:09 No.5039059

    PCs as Gruul, otherwise, honestly, I would copypasta the pervious encounter.

    Anyway, the creations of the Simic (which includes everyone in the Guild) are designed to work together. You might want some templete rules for apply cytoplasts to non Simic Guild members, but we assume everything Simic is cyto'ed up, even if the card doesn't have +1/1 counters.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)10:09 No.5039062
    Going for a run /tg/. Keep the thread alive please.

    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)10:10 No.5039067
    Will try
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)10:15 No.5039078
         File : 1246284910.jpg-(41 KB, 675x660, gruul.jpg)
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    Pic related?
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)10:17 No.5039093
         File : 1246285075.jpg-(12 KB, 200x147, mc41_initiate.jpg)
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    Breaking into the Simic complex to destory those false patrons of nature, your start-up Gruul Clan encounters some Simic creations.

    The "minions" are those luckless bastards who have gotten past Intitation yet.

    They wield simple weapons, but their lives are basically forfeit if a person able to manipulate cytoplasts pull a Magneto on Wolvie, and buff up something else, maybe another initiate.

    Mostly humans, but you could definatly put the idea over an Elf or Vedalken.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)10:26 No.5039118
         File : 1246285606.jpg-(89 KB, 700x509, CytoManipulator.jpg)
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    Cytoplast Manipulators have some ability to screw with cytoplasts, but mainly screw with people ability to do things.

    I would remove the interaction between her and bloodthristy Gruul creatures, largely because it isn't particularly flavorful, but if PCs use Simic 'roids, giving her more debuff power makes sense.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)10:32 No.5039145
         File : 1246285960.jpg-(61 KB, 700x509, SporebackTroll.jpg)
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    Sporeback trolls are heavies that grant some regen to nearby friendly cytoplast users.

    The Simic might use wurms or worms as ultra heavy units, but besides having some cytoplasts for effects, I imagine you could use the same rules as you use for the Gruul wurms.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)10:39 No.5039171
    Looks good so far. Gonna grab a shower then work on classes some more.
    >> Charm 06/29/09(Mon)10:56 No.5039222
    forgive me for butting in but I have a couple bones to pick with this. here is the alignment grid I came up with, being quite basic on the application

    LG: Azorious
    NG: Selesnya
    CG: Boros
    LN: Simic
    TN: orzhov/Izzet
    CN: Gruul
    LE: Dimir
    NE: Golgari
    CE: Rakdos

    it basically works like this
    White: Good
    Blue: lawful
    Black: Evil
    Red: chaotic
    Green: neutral

    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)10:57 No.5039225

    Nice but not new.

    Also, CG doesn't quite cover the 'hothead cop'ness of the Boros Legion.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)11:02 No.5039235
    Very wrong. The Azorius only care for law, not justice. The Orzhov are mafia-level: justice and law for us, and no-one else. Screw the rules, we have money.
    The Izzet are chaotic as fuck.
    The Simic dick around with the laws of nature.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)11:06 No.5039244
    November 16, 2006

    Q:Where would each Ravnican guild fall on the spectrum of D&D alignments?


    -- Jeremy
    College Park, Maryland, USA

    A: From Brady Dommermuth, Magic creative director:

    When we were building the identities of Ravnica's guilds, Jeremy, we actually talked about each color in terms of D&D alignments (and in terms of superheroes, animals, food, and whatever else we could think of). There's not a clean match, but the closest we came was that white = good, blue = lawful, black = evil, red = chaotic, and green = neutral. (Lawful is a stretch for blue, and good and evil have less meaning in Magic than in D&D.) Those assignments would yield the following guild alignments:

    Azorious = lawful good

    Dimir = lawful evil

    Rakdos = chaotic evil

    Gruul = chaotic neutral

    Selesnya = neutral good

    Golgari = neutral evil

    Orzhov = [good evil]

    Boros = chaotic good

    Izzet = [lawful chaotic]

    Simic = lawful neutral

    This scheme works surprisingly well, in my opinion. The exceptions are the Boros, which would be "lawful passionate" or something, and the Orzhov and Izzet, which have two values on the same alignment spectrum. Interestingly, this scheme also reveals how conflicted the Orzhov are, how insane the Izzet are. If I had to choose alignments for the Orzhov and Izzet, I guess I'd choose lawful evil and chaotic neutral, respectively. That in turn demonstrates that the Orzhov and Dimir are two sides of the same coin, and that maybe the Izzet and the Gruul have more in common than it would appear at first glance. They're both chaotic and passionate, but otherwise mostly amoral (blue and green are united by their amorality).

    Found by googling ask wizards guild alignment
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)11:10 No.5039254

    Just leave the alignment issue alone. It's just a nit-picky point that will keep us from further progress. What ever you and your friends decide is fine if it ends up as a playable template for an RP.

    Also, has anyone else d/l'ed and read the M:tG RPG pdf on /rs/? I read it last night and it works pretty well. You could just use that with flavor from Ravnica block.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)11:11 No.5039256
    Well, I'm somewhat surprised, especially by the Azorius being full-on lawful good. All the fluff tends to point towards a less benevolent feel- their Paladins even have armour which restricts their movement.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)11:13 No.5039262

    It's how you are lawful good in a less then utopia that you are in control of.

    There are good members in the guild. For example the minisite story was about a Vedalken giving up his life to get a Dimir shapeshifter arrested.

    Both the Boros and the Senate have good cops as members, it's just that Boros has hot head cops as a foil to the god, and the Senate has bureacrats.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)11:17 No.5039273
    Dimir Classes

    Agent: No one is beyond the reach of House Dimir. Their influence and manipulation is boundless. The agents are the ones who make that happen. Whether as spies infiltrating enemy guilds or advisers to the Azorius Senate, agents can be found.

    Assassin: Masters of stealth and subterfuge, assassins lurk in the shadows and strike with subtle steel, catching enemies off their guard to devastating effect. Employing wicked poisons on their blades and the bolts of their crossbows, assassins can effectively dispatch enemies before their position is revealed, then vanish seamlessly into the shadows before their remaining opponents' very eyes.

    Psychics: Adept in the powers and nuances of the mind, psychics primarily use their magic to influence the minds of others. They can magically alter memories, send messages over great distances, strike people with amnesia and even conjure blades and projectiles of force to dispatch enemies.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)11:18 No.5039279
    Alignment is entirely unnecessary. All it does is spoil good original content threads.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)11:20 No.5039284
    >Once we got past the OH BAW ALIGNMENTS I HATE BEING PRODUCTIVE stuff
    Just drop alignments completely. They literally do not exist in Magic: the gathering.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)11:23 No.5039292
    Your productivity knows no bounds.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)11:23 No.5039294

    Not strickly true, the colors cover motives like D&D alignments do.

    However, having a Green/blue character isn't as auto what? as having a Lawful/Chaotic character, and the colors just don't particularly enjoy the members their enemy colors, as much as they do allied or same colored people.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)11:23 No.5039296
    Neither does your butthurt faggotry.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)11:25 No.5039301
    I mean specifically the grid of nine D&D-style. Using the color wheel makes so much more sense.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)11:25 No.5039304

    For fuck's sake. I know nothing of Ravnica. I'm not particularly familiar with D&D, which is what you seem to be basing this on.

    All I'm saying is the insistence upon shoving alignment into a setting that doesn't appear to have any alignment basis is stupid. It's not needed and causes more arguments than it solves.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)11:27 No.5039309
    Anyone else for shamelessly criticizing personal preference, or can we move on to something else?
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)11:28 No.5039310
    Here is the complete spoiler of cards:
    Also read Wikipedia, it has a good summary.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)11:30 No.5039312
    I'm not even trying to troll you and your ass is spontaneously combusting.
    Using D&D alignment would be like including D&D pantheon.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)11:30 No.5039313

    Actually I'm going to keep on doing it.

    You cant go:

    >Here, let's discuss this setting. Only don't discuss alignments because I have decided they're in and what I say goes.

    A lot of what's been spoken about interests me, but your insistence on jamming alignment in is what's spoiling things.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)11:32 No.5039321
    It's clear in the first message that you can use the grid or, if you don't agree with implementing any sort of alignment grid, you can use the color wheel. I only insist on ascribing alignments because I feel more comfortable using the grid in my role-playing. You can do whatever you want when you play. You can make your own system from scratch if you hate it so much.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)11:32 No.5039323

    Alright, I have an encounter intro for hot Rakdos on Boros action.

    The party's going fine, only 20% of the screams are in pure terror, and the imps haven't flipped out and killed everyone yet.

    Suddenly, the door is broken down, and arrows shoot through the door, hitting 2 imps and scattering the rest.

    The Wojet Patrol, and everyone who was in the party besides the PCs run away. Fucking pussies, not interested in living a little in combat.

    Some fucker must have called the legion, you note.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)11:33 No.5039327
    Second post*.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)11:36 No.5039340
    So are you including sergals in your setting as well?
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)11:37 No.5039343

    We already have viashino as rape rape rape murder in Ravnica.

    Okay, only murdering and eating is cannon but whatever.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)11:43 No.5039357
    OK last alignment related post.

    I understand that M:tG uses a different system of alignment. I, personally, translate it to a loose grid form because it's that with which I'm most comfortable. Other people to whom I've spoken about this stuff agree that they prefer this system.

    If you don't, don't use it. I don't care if it's logical to you, or so rage-inducing that you feel the need to post constantly. It's how I prefer to play, so just chill. It's not your game.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)11:45 No.5039370

    But alignment is an incredibly awk-

    No, I'm done. Hope some fa/tg/uys with more knowledge of Ravicna can help you out.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)11:46 No.5039371
    Fine, make your game and report back when you are done.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)11:51 No.5039397

    Last alignment related post, on my half.

    If using alignment seems more natural a way to refer to base character motivations and general actions then using the color wheel, then no issue.

    It looks like you don't use alignment mechinically or have paladin falls style issues, which are the main reasons I have with people being oh god must use alignment. As it is, it seems like you using Metric to my English or vis versa. (In case people think that I am trying to get somewhere with my dislike for either system)

    On other news, does anyone want to write up why would want to be a race or join a guild in the same style as the boxed 4e why to play a class?
    >> Selesnya Guildmage 06/29/09(Mon)11:51 No.5039398
    Hey Op, nice to see some people still care about Ravnica. I'd question some of your design choices (Using classes, banning colourless/hybrid mana, and even bothering to think about D&D style alignment), but all in all, it seems like a good job.

    I've run a few games, and I'm in the process of writing up the notes for a generic MtG RPG based on a mashup of the Exalted and WoD white wolf games, although I initially designed it with Rav in mind. I went for a bit more of a free form system, which is a little more complicated but gives more choice. If anyone would find it helpful, I'll put the brief notes I've made on /rs/. I'm also working on a compiled Rav fluff document, putting all the stuff from the MtG website, various articles and the setting books from each fatpack as well as all the little details from the novels into one file. If you'd like, I could put that on 4chan in a little while, see how it goes down.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)11:55 No.5039412

    It isn't the document that had explict rules for lands and stuff right?

    Because I don't particularly like that system, in that it really tries to use the mechinics of M:tG which is a bit silly when you are the closest thing to a God, and you already have a system for resolving that. i.e. the WotC game.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)11:56 No.5039416

    Hybrid mana is covered by having two mana points in two different colors. It's just being able to apply a mana point as 'half' of each color that isn't allowed, because it doesn't fit the system. And colorless, as in the game, is covered by mana points of any color, and artifacts don't need to be cast, just used, so there isn't much of a use for it.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)12:00 No.5039441

    If you really wanted to include hybird, you would just have spells with mana requirements that can be filled with more then one mana type.

    Same thing for colorless.

    However, I don't particularly care for adapting the Magic mana system to PnP RPGs, which is why I am focusing on making encounter fluff and brief ideas for what a creature that happens to have a card counterpart would do.
    >> Selesnya Guildmage 06/29/09(Mon)12:05 No.5039458

    Nah, I've gone for a very fluff based approach. I'm ignoring most of the card game mechanics and stuff, just focusing on what the characters in the books do. Nothings up yet, I'm always slow with finishing stuff.

    I understand why you did it, I was merely saying I'm approaching the problems differently. It'll be quite interesting to see, after both system are completely, how they contrast each other. I look forward to it.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)12:05 No.5039460
    Yes, I imagine there will be spells that can use one of two colors.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)12:09 No.5039478
    So with spells working like they do in M:tg would the card buffs (double strike, first strike etc) work like feats? If you use 3.X DnD as a base (not saying you should can't actually tell what its intended for) it would allow a standard 20th level character to have 8 feats, but thats a little ridiculous if you only use the M:tg abilities (trample,double strike, first strike etc), so maybe space the levels you get feats at further apart? say every fourth like stat ups with one at first.

    First Strike
    Requirements: Attack 1
    You go first on the initiative regardless of roll, if another has first strike your roll is its own mini-initiative between all opponents with First Strike.
    Just throwing shit out there.
    >> Sheep 06/29/09(Mon)12:11 No.5039503
    Has Golgari been made yet for classes?
    If not, I'd like to try my hand in it.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)12:13 No.5039513

    Hardconverting of MtG keywords into feats seems kinda silly.

    I would take creatures with first strike has having higher (whatever the word that makes you act first) or reach in the D&D sense on a case by case basic.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)12:14 No.5039517
    Golgari's wide open. Go crazy.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)12:15 No.5039523
    I imagined a feat called First Strike or something similar, which acts as improved initiative. Translating them literally probably wouldn't work overwell.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)12:16 No.5039536
    So first strike would effectively be Improved initiative which is just +4 to your initiative modifier. Or maybe allowing an attack of opportunity upon entering combat? I still personally feel that translating the keywords gives it a more M:tg feel though.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)12:23 No.5039585
    I'd rather avoid game mechanics entirely as feats or abilities. Some of them fail to translate, like Flying, which would just be a racial ability, or Madness.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)12:27 No.5039598
    Fair enough, I forgot about some of those.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)12:28 No.5039605

    Also, sometimes first strike just is mechinics behind the flavor of archers shooting you before you cut them down.

    The fact that archery and being fast as fuck perfectly cancel each other out is just for ease of book keeping.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)12:35 No.5039650
    So you have yet to choose a system? Because that would really help me start statting things if I am able.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)12:36 No.5039659
    It looks at the moment to be an original system with some borrowing from 3.5 and 4.0.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)12:39 No.5039686
    Okay, just had to be sure we were using something like that. And makes it easier since I have the 3.5 manuals on hand. Time to stat some races.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)12:44 No.5039718
    Well don't stat them just like 3.5...
    >> Sheep 06/29/09(Mon)12:46 No.5039731

    Strangler: Your life is of the greatest, for you live upon the roots you walk upon. You are a zombie with a wooden heartbeat, bones encased with roots. You fight and die for the Golgari Queen, only to rise again and continue the fight.

    Guildmage: You do the bidding of the land. You ensure that the ranks of the House Golgari are full, reviving the fallen Stranglers and making them even stronger.

    Druids of Deep Shadow: Your magic is strong, knowing much of life and of death so that you may keep Golgari strong. You deem what sacrifice is worthy, and what battles are to be fought, and someday you may be given life itself in return for your service.

    Sound good?
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)12:47 No.5039734

    Eh, my work so far has been for it to be an expansion usable with any system that is close enough to D&D.

    Developing a whole cloth system would take too much work and not be worth it. IMHO.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)13:09 No.5039848
    (These are just the modifications to a standard base set for a similar creature)
    Goblin Small size (similar to halfling with these changes)
    +2 str -2 int -2 wis
    Base speed 30 ft
    +2 to profession (mining), climb, jump Darkvision
    +1 racial flanking bonus (goblins work in packs so replace the halfling sling bonus)

    Loxodon Medium size
    Same rules apply as 4th edition half giant (counts as large size for weaponry only)
    +2 Wis -2 int
    +2 heal, wilderness lore and survival
    +1 to all healing spells

    Viashino Medium
    +2 Dex -2 int -2 cha
    Low light vision
    +2 move silently, hide

    Ogres Large (using a modified half ogre from 3rd ed savage species book, still unsure of this choice)
    +4 str +2 con -2 dex -2 Cha -2 int
    10 ft reach, +2 natural AC
    speed 30ft, darkvision

    Unsure of how to deal with a couple of the others, so still working. And I must say I love the mana system (how are we going to work stats properly to modify pool? Maybe limit a character to their class stat modifier?)
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)13:16 No.5039884
    Oops, remove the -2 int from Viashino.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)13:22 No.5039928
    I figured we'd do something like 4e abilities. For example:

    Class X gets three at-will abilities, one encounter ability, and one daily ability. The abilities from which you can choose each have a requirement in mana points that tells you whether you can choose that spell.

    More example:

    Lightning Helix
    1st Level Encounter Ability
    Requirements: Whi 1/Red 1
    Damage: 2d6 Gain life equal to the damage dealt with Lightning Helix.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)13:27 No.5039971
    Okay then (add racials if you will worth 1 colorless mana each) but do you agree with limiting maximum mana by int? (maybe cha for some classes like in DnD with bard/sorcerer) But you would not limit minimum, so a guilded character of any class would always have 2 mana.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)13:30 No.5039994
    Wait make that double your stat modifier and your base 2 (or 1) do not count against it.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)13:31 No.5039999
    'Mana' isn't any type of finite internal energy. It's drawn upon from your surroundings based on availability. Mana points just define what type of training you've focused on in order to be able to use certain abilities.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)13:36 No.5040038
    .... So does it replenish per round, encounter, daily? I need to know this to have a good set idea. So this is also more like 4th in that every class will have powers.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)13:40 No.5040062
    If you're within the vicinity of a source of energy of a certain color you can effectively draw from it infinitely. No PC is going to be able to overdraw any of these sources.

    If you're not near a source, it takes longer to use the ability or you can't use it at all, except for your guild signet. Your guild signet can store energy of its guild's two colors to be drawn upon when a source isn't available. That is a yet-to-be-determined finite amount that has to be recharged at a source.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)13:44 No.5040094
    Okay thankyou. So since you are a grunt not one of the higher ups you may sometimes be limited in the amount of energy you have, thus making long trips quite hazardous. I LOVE THAT IDEA. GM's might place hidden energy fonts in locations.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)13:49 No.5040128
    >So since you are a grunt not one of the higher ups you may sometimes be limited in the amount of energy you have, thus making long trips quite hazardous.

    I'm not so sure you're understanding me. =\
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)13:52 No.5040147
    Valor Made Real 1white
    You gain 4 +1/5 levels armor class for 1 round per level
    (a 20th level soldier would gain 8 armor class for 20 rounds)
    That the general idea behind abilities?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)13:53 No.5040157
    >4 +1/5 levels armor class

    Maybe not the best wording, but that's about right.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)13:57 No.5040175
    What I mean is since the characters won't be sitting in a power source flinging high level spells at people all the time we might have to go days without mana. (say a blue character trudging through the desert) And sorry if I seem scatterbrained its 4 am and my brains running in overdrive.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)13:59 No.5040189
    Yes, there could be situations during which players have no accessible mana and have to rely on skills and steel to survive.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)13:59 No.5040194
    Not that there are any deserts, that does make sense however.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)14:03 No.5040207
    Well, one of the issues that arose last night was "What if you're way out of your guild's territory and you run out of mana? How do you survive agents of other guilds without any abilities?"

    That's how I came up with the signets storing energy. Other people mentioned perhaps having fonts of energy hidden in guild 'safe houses' across Ravnica, never too far apart as to be inaccessible. But I think that makes it too easy, not having to conserve energy at all.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)14:17 No.5040287
    +4 Warhammer
    Ability Mighty throw: 1white 1red
    Throwing the Sunforger allows the wielder to use a red or white ability with a converted mana cost of 4.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)14:19 No.5040304
    Too literal bucko.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)14:28 No.5040375
    geez, you guys had a ravnica thread without me? *various anti-work grumblings*

    I'm not a fan of guilds having D&D alignments, as it kind of goes against MaRo's color philosophies IMO, even if Brady says otherwise (the rakdos one here http://www.wizards.com/magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr241 has links to the other 9 guilds n the 5 color ones, in case anyone wants to read them)

    Ignoring that little pet peeve, you got good stuff here (especially the signet idea), and I'm glad to see Selesnya guildmage coming out of the woodwork (no pun intended).

    I'd also like to say that Izzet spells with replicate should have the replicate cost=half the normal cast to make it more viable.

    Also, for izzet classes I'm thinking:
    -Chronarch=Wizard that has the ability to recall other spells they've already used up,
    -some sort of druid-like class that handles weird constructs and/or dijinn illuminatus
    -Dragonaut=duskblade-like class, each spell they cast adds a temporary buff to str or dex
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)14:32 No.5040411
    Sorry Anon I thought you were here all along.

    One of Izzet's classes has to be Tinkerer (or something of a similar name). Are Chronarch and Dragonaut supported by the lore? They both sound great; I just want them to be accurate.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)14:33 No.5040419

    Ravnica takes place in a vast city scape. Why not have each guild be "broadcasting" their energy from a centered area in their turf. Then make the signets able to recharge based on how close they are to that source.

    Add a twist in: There are large towers throughout the town that receive that channeled power and can be used by all guilds to recharge their signets, but only at the top of these towers. Making for essentially control points that are guarded and feuded over by the guilds in attempts to make advances into enemy territory.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)14:36 No.5040437
    Hmmm. I wonder if I will ever get a chance to play in a campaign like this.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)14:37 No.5040450

    Yes, they do have cards, though dragonauts seem to be more like spell batteries that get stronger when their allies use magic.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)14:37 No.5040456
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    Chronarch is a card, so I'm pretty sure he's canon. Not sure about how (wee) dragonauts fit into the lore though
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)14:39 No.5040461
    I'd like to repost the ideas for the Rakdos classes:

    Kill-Suit Cultist- Brawler with spike armor.

    Augerwitch- uses blood magic to make fire or interrupts.

    Defiler- demon augmented followers of Rakdos that use whips.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)14:40 No.5040470
    At this point it's established that guild controlled areas all have accessible sources of energy for drawing upon from a (short) distance. To recharge your signet you have to return to your territory and touch the signet to the source in some way.

    I like the idea, perhaps, of guild-controlled sources across Ravnica that are constant sources of energy for recharging signets. That would make for some good 'defend the base' style starter campaigns.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)14:42 No.5040479
    Since the guilds share colors, isn't it more that they have their headquarters located as close as possible to the merging of those two areas?
    Dimir in the underground lake-cave, with Simic, Azorious, and Izzet above them, as they share blue.

    Of course, the city probably isn't perfectly uniform, there could be sources for certain colors away from the relevant guilds, though that might lead to the "safe houses" idea.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)14:48 No.5040507
    Well that's the other aspect of the signet. Say you're a Dimir Agent with an empty Signet. If you risk heading into Izzet territory, you can recharge the blue mana in your signet allowing you to use abilities that only require blue mana.

    All of this should really make character building deep and deliberate. While abilities of two or more colors may be more complex and strong, they also cannot be used in a situation where you only have mana of one color accessible, such as a Dimir Agent in a Golgari-controlled area.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)14:48 No.5040509
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    some locations have been established already in fluff (like in the novels NOBODY SEEMS ABLE TO SCAN). Golgari have the underground via rot farms, dimir... nobody knows about them period, so yeah... simic run from rooftop labs n gardens, and the Izzet actually have large towers n spires so that Niv can fly where-ever he wants without being bothered
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)14:50 No.5040524
    well then again, dimir are supposed to be a secret spy network absolutely nobody knows about, so wouldn't it be normal for them to pretend to be a U/whatever or B/whatever guild member and then only cast spells in the color they know? with limitations, of course...
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)14:51 No.5040529
    A lot of the internet articles and MTG Salvation stuff say the Dimir live mostly in the sewers.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)14:53 No.5040547
    Yes, if their class, abilities, and training give them the necessary skills to keep up the charade. And if they have the right signet to show other members to identify themselves.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)14:54 No.5040557
    no, what i meant was canonly speaking, nobody should know the dimir exist (minus the guild leaders), or where any of their stuff is.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)14:56 No.5040570
    and of course, if anyone ELSE sees the signet, you're required by guild law to kill them
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)14:57 No.5040573
    House Dimir was involved in the Guildpact. It might not be well known in detail, but it is an acknowledged entity, isn't it?
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)15:01 No.5040600
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    In a space where there is no room, in a structure that was never built, meets the guild that doesn't exist.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)15:02 No.5040604
    no. it's, if anything, a widespread rumor of a "guild that doesn't exist". By law of the guildpact, the other guildleaders can't acknowledge their existence
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)15:14 No.5040690
    OK then the point remains that they couldn't infiltrate based on no one having knowledge of them alone, because they'd still need signets and identification, right?
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)15:14 No.5040693
    Should we add Dimir spirit races? Just liked the look of the "Dimir cutpurse"
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)15:18 No.5040732
    Dimir shapechangers assassinate safehouse/lesser guildhalls sigil dispenser and take their place.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)15:20 No.5040746
    And if that's role-played out what's the harm? ;P

    Working on a few Azorius classes now.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)15:25 No.5040779
    High level adventure if you have a Dimir in the group. The guild finds out about the shapechanger and conducts a search on every guildmember inducted by the shapechanger, your goal is to seem legit.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)15:25 No.5040782
    off the top of my head...
    AEthermages (counterspells and binding magic), Hussar (paladin), Equenaut (archer/gryphin rider)
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)15:29 No.5040810
    I had an idea:

    What if the guild dual lands are the extra-guild turf sources of energy?

    Azorius Chanceries, Blood Crypts, Boros Garrisons, etc...
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)15:31 No.5040820
    Makes a lot of sense actually. Good idea there.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)15:33 No.5040835
    Hmmm the way this is shaping up makes me think we should stick to 4th edition for it....
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)15:35 No.5040845
    Equenaut is my idea of a prestige class. Flying mounts at low levels are wholly overpowered. The other two are the ones I've been working on exactly. :D
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)15:37 No.5040860
    ah, just downgrade to archer/ranger then
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)15:52 No.5040966
    Ayup, up ya go, no sinking here
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)15:59 No.5041018
    Fertile Imagination
    Green Spell 2 green 2 any
    Select a mana type when this spell is cast, for every mana of this type the target has summon two saprolings.
    Converted spell bump!
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)16:06 No.5041059
    forecast=spend mana and charge a spell for a turn before casting, granting a lower-power buff/effect in the meantime?
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)16:07 No.5041063
    Flow of ideas
    Blue spell 1 blue 5 any
    Every blue mana used to cast this spell may be used to cast any spell in your list this turn. (not explained very well but it virtually equates to multiple spells in one turn thus the high cost)
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)16:09 No.5041076
    Azorius Classes

    Hussar: The hussar is a conduit of law and justice, seeking lawbreakers and striking without ego or remorse. It is the job of a hussar to enforce the law with cunning tenacity. The knights of Ravnica, hussar mix sword and shield tactics with blinding spells of light.

    Aethermage: The Azorius Senate employ a gamut of well-trained mages skilled in the use of spells that counter enemy magic, cause paralysis, draw from enemies the truth, and bind spirits to the material plane for information and as allies. These are the aethermages, undying in their loyalty to the senate and the laws of Ravnica.

    Sinstriker: "Steel rusts. Arrows break. But righteousness is always strong, always sharp." The sinstriker is alerted to lawlessness almost before the infraction occurs; and within them is born a power and desire for vengeance that they make use of in combat, unleashing great bolts of energy and conjuring blades to smite their felonious foes.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)16:10 No.5041086
    .. have you figured out how magemarks will work yet?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)16:14 No.5041118
    Oy. I'm not sure how else to explain this.

    Players *do not* have mana. Mana exists all around them, different types in different places, to be appropriated for the use of abilities. Mana is not finite. There is no such thing as 'one mana', or 'converted mana cost'.

    And you don't spend a finite amount of mana to cast spells. Your mana points *only* tell you what types of abilities you can take for your character. If you have five mana points in blue and two in red, you don't use them to 'cast a spell with a converted mana cost of seven'. They just allow you to take abilities used either at will, per encounter or daily (at the moment, subject to change).
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)16:16 No.5041133
    No. I've seen the cards, but I don't know how they function in the books. Can you explain?
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)16:18 No.5041147
    Blue spell 1 blue
    Target is stunned for one round, for every blue you spend past the initial you may select another target for this spell.

    Govern the guildless
    Blue spell 1blue 5 any
    Dominate one guildless npc, this spell costs one extra blue per level of target guildless, this effect is permanent

    Hissing Miasma
    Black spell 2black 1 any
    Hissing miasma creates a cloud around the caster which deals 1 damage per level to any enemy occupying those spaces. Spell lasts 1 turn per level
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)16:19 No.5041155
    Okayyy then. This makes spells ALOT harder to deal with.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)16:23 No.5041182
    The idea isn't to adapt spells from the cards into the game.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)16:23 No.5041183
    non-card ones are used in the sample chap to dissension http://ww2.wizards.com/books/wizards/products/default.aspx?doc=955327400

    he pretty much describes it as a free daily buff
    >> Sheep 06/29/09(Mon)16:23 No.5041192
    Suggested Prestige Classes for Golgari:
    Shambling Knight:
    Prerequisites: Lvl. 7 Strangler
    After serving as a strangler for countless battles, you have proven yourself enough to be woven into the threads of the Circle. Your life is death and you bask in it's glory, leading the stranglers to expand the growth.

    Circle Guardian:
    Prerequisites: Lvl. 8 Strangler, Guildmage, or Druid
    Your sense of existence is beyond what any could comprehend. Savra herself commands you, whether it be fighting on the front lines or planting the seeds of growth.

    Child of Svogthos:
    Prerequisites: Lvl. 15 Golgari Member
    The Tomb of Svogthos emanates with glory, and from this comes the greatest of warriors. Few have ever seen the power here, and once one has felt it, they will know what death means. It is the dream of all Golgari to someday become a child of Svogthos, to aid in his reawakening.
    I'll be making feats and etc. for each class, if this sounds reasonable to everyone.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)16:28 No.5041227
    >>Lightning Helix
    1st Level Encounter Ability
    Requirements: Whi 1/Red 1
    Damage: 2d6 Gain life equal to the damage dealt with Lightning Helix.

    Okay then. Here is something from earlier, explain what you mean by red1/whi1. And how that works.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)16:31 No.5041260

    I forgot to comment on this earlier, Sheep.

    Strangler: Zombies aren't a playable race. I like the idea fundamentally, but it won't fit if you mean zombie literally. If I'm misinterpreting, go ahead and explain why I'm aloof.

    Guildmage: Guildmages are essentially *the* high-level prestige class for PC's. To become a guildmage you have to spend many levels proving your loyalty to the guild before you can be chosen. It will probably be a 15th level prestige class requiring levels in any of the guild's three classes.

    Druids of Deep Shadow: The name is great, the concept seems strong, but the description doesn't really give a lot of insight into what the class does combat-wise, or what their primary role and value to a group is.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)16:33 No.5041279
    Yeah, I used Lightning Helix as an example for how abilities work. I said earlyish in the thread that the aim wasn't to adapt cards into spells.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)16:37 No.5041327
    That still doesn't explain to me how the "mana" system works, so we get one slot per level right? so a first level character with the boros seal could cast Lightning helix? So a sixth level character could have 3 green 2 fire 1 black capability as long as an energy source for all three is in range? I personally prefer working it like proper mana but I think I MAY have the grasp of this now.
    >> Sheep 06/29/09(Mon)16:42 No.5041366
    Oi, okay. Well, as for the zombies part, they are just their former race except converted (physically mutated into a zombie looking creature, an increase in strength, decrease in wisdom, etc.) but their base concept wouldn't change. They'd still be a minotaur, or a human, etc. but can't be healed except by druids or (working on a replacement for guildmage. Maybe switch guildmages with Child of Svogthos?) The point of Druids were to ensure the survival of the golgari. In terms of role they'd play in the party, they would be walking mana pools, really. Say, if the golgari found themselves attacking an Azorius group, and a Druid of Deep Shadow was present, they would be able to regenerate Stranglers, or provide buffs, as well as giving the guildmages a mana source to tap into. See kind've what I mean?
    As for the guildmages being replaced, we could switch the names of the Guildmages and the Child of Svogthos, seeing as Svogthos is a Lvl. 15 prestige class, and considered the focal point of the Golgari?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)16:43 No.5041377
    OK, you're a first level Boros member.

    Your mana points are Red 1, White 1.

    To gain access to the example *ability* Lightning Helix, you must have one mana point in red, and one mana point in white.

    So you have the prerequisites, now you can choose Lightning Helix as your 1st level encounter ability.

    Because Lightning Helix is a magic ability instead of a martial ability, it requires you to draw on mana to use. So once per encounter, if there is a source of 'red' mana and a source of 'white' mana in range, you may draw upon them and use the Lightning Helix ability.

    A 1st level at-will ability, conversely, might be 'Shield Slam', an ability which requires one mana point in white to use. If you're a first level of any class in any guild and have one white mana point, you can take Shield Slam.

    Because Shield Slam is a martial ability, *not* a magic ability, you may use it without drawing mana from a source. You just use the ability at will and garner the desired effect.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)16:47 No.5041403
    So, if I'm understanding this correctly, a Human Strangler has been mutated by other Golgari members to resemble a zombie, whilst not actually being a zombie. Because of these mutations they get bonuses to strength and deficits to wisdom or intelligence. Do they get any constitution bonuses or anything?
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)16:47 No.5041405
    The way you explain it still means mana is being "used" in the same way I "used" it in my examples, and why would someone be able to cast Gover the Guildless if they didn't have the mana. Other than being direct rips from the cards those appear to be perfectly working spells. The shield slam and such make sense.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)16:49 No.5041420
    You said things like, for every 1 you spend beyond the first. There's no finite cost for an ability. You just find a source of mana and use the ability if a source is available that matches its types.
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)16:53 No.5041448
    So your version are powers that just require you to have an available source of mana.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)16:54 No.5041452
    >> Theurd the wandering librarian !!AmsjJ6eeRCF 06/29/09(Mon)16:56 No.5041468
    Okay. Sorry for getting all confused on you.
    >> Sheep 06/29/09(Mon)17:00 No.5041496
    Yes. The magic used as healing and buffs would only work on these adapted versions. And the exact details of a strangler's stat changes haven't been configured yet. I've got to go to class, but when I get back I can get all the details down if you can give me a basic stat table. I don't know what we'd be using as average for stats, so I couldn't tell you the difference in stat changes (+1 str., +2 str, etc.) but I don't want it to be too overpowering. But stranglers could only be healed by Golgari spells, and Selesnya healing spells would damage them (Just as holy water on zombies etc.) Thus the conversion into the Strangler form.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)17:07 No.5041536
    So the player becomes a strong, resilient, functioning undead whilst still retaining the racial benefits of their starting race?

    That sounds good to me.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)17:26 No.5041670
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)17:37 No.5041752
    Bumping again.

    Content coming soon.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)17:57 No.5041885
    /tg/ you have forsaken me!
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)18:07 No.5041938
    You really shouldn't expect a bump every 5 minutes unless the thread is about dickgirls or 4th edition.
    Just work on what you have so far and make a new thread tomorrow when you hit a wall.
    >> vesu 06/29/09(Mon)18:21 No.5042027
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    Magic the gathering already HAS a highly developed alignment system! I don't know what is more foolish, attempting to juxtapose a system that already exists for a system that is undeniably inferior for the setting, or attempting to create parallels between two alignment systems!
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)18:24 No.5042042
    Golgari Races

    Strangler: The strangler embraces rot, undeath and decay as fundamental aspects of his existence. Employing the magics of Golgari druids, stranglers take on the characteristics of the undead, becoming stronger and more resilient to swords and sorcery, shrugging off blows that might cripple others and dealing crippling blows of their own.

    Druid of the Deep Shadow: The Golgari druid is a master of life and death, slaying his enemies with spells of rot and decay and raising them to act as his servants in undeath. The druid is a necromancer and an augmenter, bolstering his Golgari allies with spells to improve their strength and resilience, causing festering wounds and focused plagues.

    Skysweeper: The skysweeper is the ruler of Ravnica's spires and rooftops, navigating them with the nimbleness and grace of even the most experienced ground-dwellers. His position is his advantage and he uses it to great and devastating effect, swooping down upon unwitting foes with hook-blades bared or raining arrows down upon their heads. Protectors of the skies, skysweepers have the greatest perspective, and recognize the truth of the Golgari philosophies.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)18:24 No.5042051
    or 4e dragonborn futas
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)18:26 No.5042066
    Can we get a condensed version of this thread, OP?
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)18:26 No.5042067
    Cool picture and flavor, terrible idea for mechanics.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)18:27 No.5042072
    I keep trying to tell him that but he's just a typical gamer.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)18:28 No.5042090
    Every longish post with a heading is the condensed version I think.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)18:31 No.5042111
    aren't skysweepers neutral? or if anything, I'd say they were selesnyan what with the tree climbing and all
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)18:31 No.5042116
    I'm all right with being foolish in one small way if it makes my role-playing more comfortable or enjoyable.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)18:34 No.5042136
    Yeah, I wasn't so sure about this. They're featured in the Golgari premades and I was short on ideas so I tossed it up for comments.

    Maybe it should be a neutral prestige class?
    >> vesu 06/29/09(Mon)18:36 No.5042151
    >I'm all right with being foolish in one small way if it makes my role-playing more comfortable or enjoyable.
    Do you enjoy galactic levels of inanity in your games? Do you enjoy not only rejecting the source material, but forcing it to watch while you rape it's mother and kill it's children? Do you enjoy any system as long as it is similar to D&D, even for the most idiotic reasons?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)18:38 No.5042163
    Yes I love all these things how did you know?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)18:52 No.5042305
    Having some trouble coming up with Rakdos classes, /tg/. Any ideas?
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)19:00 No.5042401

    Rakdos class thoughts.

    Kinda like Gruul classes but with dealing with demons instead of chilling with nature.

    Also, need to think of Thrull encounters.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)19:02 No.5042418

    >I'd like to repost the ideas for the Rakdos classes:

    >Kill-Suit Cultist- Brawler with spike armor.

    >Augerwitch- uses blood magic to make fire or interrupts.

    >Defiler- demon augmented followers of Rakdos that use whips.
    >> Orange !JuliusajN2 06/29/09(Mon)19:18 No.5042584
    If you don't mind, can we archive this so we have a good reference for the future. I'm trying to take all relevant info and put in a text document, but it's tough to scan through all of it.

    I really support this as it very well mixing two of my favorite things.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)19:19 No.5042592

    if you want to archive go to suptg and archive it.

    I have archive way too many threads in my day.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)19:19 No.5042595
    Simic Classes

    Biomancer: A biomancer is all at once scientist, engineer, and physician. Their magic and experimentation with cytoplasts has bred within the general population a mixed opinion of the biomancers of the Simic Combine, but they are still sought after to tend wounds and provide medical consult. The biomancers conduct biologic experiments, breeding beasts both great and wonderful, fearsome and awe-inspiring.

    Aberration: Simic aberrations were normal once... They entered the Simic Combine as initiates, enthusiastic about rising through the ranks. But little did they know, they were little more than test subjects for the biomancers' questionable experiments with cytoplasts. The substance changed them irrevocably. They now exist as hideous amalgamations of flesh and cytoplasts, hideously strong and constantly changing, shifting, evolving.

    Cytoplast Manipulator: The cytoplast manipulator courts cytoplasts; she deals in cytoplasts, and manipulates them with precision and finesse that not only tests but eclipses the boundaries of morality. They may choose to enhance themselves with the cytoplasts, giving them the strength of giants, the dexterity of viashino, or the grace of dryads, to pursue martial endeavors; they may use the substance on their allies, enhancing their skills as well; or they may use the cytoplasts on their enemies, controlling their minds and their actions with the newly formed genetic connection.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)19:21 No.5042615
    I must have looked over this a few times, sorry meng. Are these classes supported by the cards/books?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)19:23 No.5042633
    Need one more Golgari class (mistitled races), and to finish Izzet, Orzhov, and Rakdos. Then we can move on.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)19:23 No.5042635

    Yes. Though augerpeople are used by Dimir too. Still, Rakdos have more fun with them, so they fill the flavor of S&M that demons have better.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)19:25 No.5042654
    OK, I'm good with them then. Write-ups coming eventually.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)19:27 No.5042668

    I think we can rip any name from the cards as long as the name isn't only on guilded cards, which would then only make sense on that guild's forces.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)19:47 No.5042845
    Rakdos Classes

    Kill-Suit Cultist: The kill-suit cultist turns every part of his body into a weapon, donning suits of armor covered in wicked spikes. Thriving on carnage, a kill-suit cultist will not hesitate to charge headlong into battle, diving upon enemies with reckless abandon and thrashing wildly until they breath no more.

    Augerwitch: Augerwitches of the Cult of Rakdos begin their careers as augermages, but soon learn they have a taste for combat, thriving on violence and chaos. They turn their magic toward violence, sacrificing flesh and blood to weave great spells of fire and lightning, tearing through foes with brutal devastation.

    Defilers: The defiler is the result of a demon pact, taking on horrifying demonic visages and great and terrible magical abilities. The mere brandish of their whip is enough to send a foe running terrified in the opposite direction. Their demon augmentation manifests as brooding, glaring eyes, sharp horns and wicked claws and teeth, used as weapons as much as for intimidation, and their proficiency with the whip is unrivaled.
    >> Anonymous. 06/29/09(Mon)19:58 No.5042931
    Last Golgari one should definitely be Rot Farmer, although Carnomancer is also something mentioned as being a Golgari job title (on Streetbreaker Wurm).

    Going through cards, here are some occupations for the remaining guilds. Some might be better as PRCs, though.

    Options for Izzet: Flectomancer, Chronarch, Psychomancer, Tinker/Artificer.

    Orzhov: Euthanist, Guiltwarden, Debtor, Patriarch, Pontiff, Mage-Sculptor, Prelate.

    Rakdos: Kill-Suit Cultist, Ragamuffyn, Cursemage, Augermage, Pyromancer, Torturer.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)20:10 No.5043009
    Orzhov Classes

    Shadow Lancer: "Shadow Lances are crafted from harvested souls. The more wicked the sinner, the keener the blade." Shadow Lancers are the wielders of these lances, charging into combat with sweeping robes and vicious weapons cutting wide swamps through their enemies' ranks and harvesting their souls to improve their great blades.

    Pontiff: Pontiffs are adept in the clerical arts, weaving healing spells and communing with ghosts. They remain in the backdrop of battle, healing wounded allies and sending forth ghosts to haunt their enemies, sapping their strength and desecrating their corpse upon death, to prevent resurrection.

    Lawmage: Lawmages of the Church of Deals embody charisma. A few well-placed smiles and winks can have everyone singing their tune. Their knowledge and manipulation of the law can keep them out of combat and controlling their enemies without ever having to lift a blade. They have enough ammunition, cunning and charisma to take down any creature in their way.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)20:13 No.5043036
    >wide swamps

    swaths* :|
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)20:15 No.5043054
    What exactly does a Rot Farmer do, other than the obvious?
    >> Sheep 06/29/09(Mon)20:31 No.5043199
    Pretty much just ensure the lands are fertile for the Golgari, so their philosophy etc. will grow/work.
    Though it's a good idea, their functionality wouldn't be good or useful for a party.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)20:31 No.5043204
    I had an idea of making a campaign based on all of the MTG settings, where the PCs are planeswalkers and can cast actual cards as spells, summoning creatures and the like. The difference from actually playing Magic would be that you're roleplaying the whole thing, and not just attacking back and forth and whatnot.

    For creatures that "tap", that would just mean that they draw an intense amount of mana from their own bodies and become too weak to move.

    As for real mana, and the costs to play spells and whatnot, you'd add mana to your pool by taking time to draw it at altars placed all around the world.

    So for example, if you draw mana at a mountain altar, that gives you R that you can spend on playing a spell. So later on, you can cast lightning bolt or something.

    Not related to your Ravnica thing, but I just thought I'd share.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)20:33 No.5043229

    I imagine they have some advanced bio powers.

    However, I think we can find a better name for nature mage who makes your face rot off.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)20:42 No.5043318
    Izzet Classes

    Chronarch: Chronarchs are known for their recollection and versatility, casting spells once to send opponents reeling, then bringing them back to finish the job. While chronarchs might not weave the strongest spells, their controlled replication may allow swarms of spells to strike at once, or a single spell to strike many times in rapid succession.

    Tinkerer: The tinkerer is characterized by his reckless curiosity, his nature a passion for discovery, knowledge, and technological experimentation. He cares only for the act of creation and pays no heed to the consequences of his inventions. The tinkerer may invent great mechanical weapons to lay waste to Izzet's enemies, or create tools to better the lives of Ravnica's people.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)20:44 No.5043335
    Yeah, Druid of the Deep Shadow. ;P

    We need one Golgari class and one Izzet class and we're good to go /tg/.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)21:01 No.5043540

    Need one more Golgari class and one more Izzet class, /tg/. Any ideas?
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)21:05 No.5043575
         File : 1246323933.jpg-(36 KB, 366x452, izzet_styleimage4.jpg)
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    We need a name for a muscle class for the izzet.

    They have soldiers that don't get creature cards, but the style is cool enough to require rules for.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)21:06 No.5043591
    izzet needs something druid-like with weirds instead of animal companions... or i guess that could be a prestiege... we could use that dragonaught thing, i guess
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)21:07 No.5043598
    This sounds all right, but what abilities do they get that make they distinctly Izzet-like?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)21:08 No.5043609
    them* :|
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)21:12 No.5043645
         File : 1246324320.jpg-(32 KB, 573x397, 1025_style3.jpg)
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    not that poster, but if i could call your attention back to the dragonaut suggestion >>5040375
    it fits the style guide pics pretty well
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)21:13 No.5043671
    Ah, I see. The problem is that there isn't spell-casting, just martial and magical abilities. What other way could they be buffed periodically based on 'X' occurring?
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)21:14 No.5043684
    Sorry, what Golgari classes do we have that we still need a third?

    I have strangler, druid of the deep shadow, and skysweeper.

    I must have missed something that dropped one of them.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)21:15 No.5043697
    Also, the dragonaut cards show a technology-based flight speed, and we can't have that.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)21:17 No.5043721
    Turns out skysweepers aren't at all allied to Golgari; they just happen to feature in the Golgari starter deck. So I'm changing them to a prestige class for unallied rogues.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)21:24 No.5043781
    So how about Thoughtpicker. It's a wizard, I would imagine for this purpose it would focus on some kind of psionics and necromancy. Like, it would somehow fuck with its opponents mind. I'm not sure how it'd work, and I've never played with psionics, but it's an option if someone else'd like to add to it.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)21:25 No.5043792
    We gather here today to mourn the passing of the conversations that might have finished the guild class system...
    >> Sheep 06/29/09(Mon)21:26 No.5043799
    Golgari Class
    Devkarin: Basically Necro-mancers. They are also similar to rangers, as they use ranged weapons while their undead leagues and creations fight at the front line.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)21:26 No.5043814
    We have a necromantic class, and we have a psionic class. Probably best not to combine the two in a third class.

    I like the idea of a flightless 'dragonaut' type that grows stronger every time 'X' occurs. Can anyone expand on this?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)21:28 No.5043830
    Too similar to the druid I think.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)21:30 No.5043849
    While the Wee Dragonaut card does gain a flying ability, perhaps they only do so because they're faeries? I mean if you had a human dragonaut I would imagine it would have to be some spell to make you fly and make you kick ass, since humans don't normally fly.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)21:32 No.5043877
    kite is magic-fueled. and could be made prestege only
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)21:34 No.5043895
    All right. So what would make them stronger per use?
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)21:37 No.5043916
    for every spell they cast, the get + buff to either str, dex, or int (they roll 1d4 at the start of each fight to determine, a 4 equals their choice) that lasts for an amount of turns equal to the spell's level?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)21:41 No.5043957
    There aren't spells, just martial and magical abilities.

    It could be per magical ability used, chosen at character creation.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)21:42 No.5043961
    That sounds like an excellent idea. To me anyway.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)21:44 No.5043976
         File : 1246326241.jpg-(25 KB, 200x285, 13721.jpg)
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    wait, so leap of flame becomes a martial ability?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)21:44 No.5043985
    Well I'm not sure the abilities will be based on cards, but in the event that they are, possibly.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)21:48 No.5044015
    i like the fact it's randomized at the start of each fight. Feels very Izzet-y
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)21:51 No.5044041
    Why wouldn't it include Charisma, Wisdom or Constitution then?
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)21:52 No.5044054
    hey....can you tell me the name of the card series (magic the gathering) that was all based off japanese art and legend. I dont remember what its called and i was trying to find some cool cards on ebay.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)21:52 No.5044063
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)21:54 No.5044080
    ignoring offtopicasfuck, kamigawa
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)21:56 No.5044098
    i dunno, i just chose the attack stats, i guess we could do all 6 stats, but then there wouldn't be a "choose your own" option... unless we a level-up option be "replace one slot's stat with another stat" hmm....
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)21:56 No.5044103
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)22:01 No.5044152
    Izzet Class

    Argonaut: The argonaut is primarily a melee fighter, employing abilities that strike their enemies with weakness or slow their reaction time to aid themselves in combat. Every ability they use bolsters one of three of their fundamental facilities, whether it be strength, dexterity, or intelligence.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)22:02 No.5044163
    And by argonaut I mean dragonaut. :|
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)22:06 No.5044185
    Niv-Mizzet and the Argonauts?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)22:08 No.5044206
         File : 1246327709.jpg-(103 KB, 1021x1014, eng_jason_and_the_argonauts.jpg)
    103 KB
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)22:17 No.5044292
    Any ideas for the last Golgari class?
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)22:26 No.5044361
    something that can transform into the various dredge creatures, maybe?
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)22:33 No.5044430
    how about this: since the zombies are all covered with the other two classes, it can only transform into the insecoids? Gleancrawler, grave-shell scarab, mortipede, various un-aligned spiders and wurms?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)22:38 No.5044465
    It has to be consistent with the books, or at the very least the flavor text.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)22:42 No.5044497

    While it may not be overly consistent with the Golgari code, priest/priestess?

    One of the classes vying for control of the Golgari Swarm is the Devkarin, dark elves led by a high priest or high priestess. The priest class could be players vying for that position or another priestly position in the ranks of the Devkarin, or just someone who agrees with Golgari code and wants to practice healing and reanimation arts.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)22:55 No.5044625
    Wow, an attempt to covert MtG to DnD that's not total shit. Color me impressed.

    I like most of what you done, the only comment I can think to make is regarding what classes actually give you. I'd suggest you make the magics/martials you can take not dependant on class but on mana alone. Classes would then simply impart various bonuses which may encourage you to take more martials than magic or whatever, as well as whatever other class features are appropriate. MtG is full of hybrid-y characters, so it'd make sense to me.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)22:56 No.5044631
    Golgari Class

    Rotfarmer: It is the responsibility of the Golgari rotfarmers to ensure the continued survival of both their guild and all of Ravnica, cultivating both the food that sustains the people and the vegetation that makes the guild thrive. The rotfarmers can also use this growth as a weapon, controlling the plant-life to ensnare their foes in tangling vines and tear at their skin with wicked thorns and brambles.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)22:58 No.5044658
    You seem chaotic good, so I'll color you green/white.

    >I like most of what you done, the only comment I can think to make is regarding what classes actually give you. I'd suggest you make the magics/martials you can take not dependant on class but on mana alone.

    Well, I imagine there would have to be a few class-specific abilities, but I definitely planned on including a great number of 'neutral' skills, so to speak, that may be taken by any class provided they have the correct mana points.

    Is this sort of like what you were thinking?
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)22:59 No.5044669
    red/white* :|

    Joke busted. Have your laughs.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)23:05 No.5044724
    Yes, pretty much. Your average red blasty spell ought to be available to any with the proper mana - including a character that's mostly martial, should he want it.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)23:07 No.5044736
    Regarding the Izzet "soldier" class.

    I am thinking that they are basically like a modern army in that they are "normal" (not particularly good at magic) and use Izzet techmancy given to them by their "Spark"-like overlords.

    More Blue then Red, which fits with them being soldiery.


    Claws of the Dragon is my working title.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)23:09 No.5044762
    Got a third class in dragonaut. Classes are finished now.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)23:13 No.5044808
    Yes, that seems consistent with the game without too closely resembling it (AKA the entire point of this system).

    Right now the game is sort of like a combination of 3.5e and 4e, with some original elements.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)23:13 No.5044809

    Oh, snap. Eh, as long as you can use the pic I posted as a char pic, I don't particularly care. Just wanted a lower magic then full caster for the Izzy guild.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)23:18 No.5044877
    Yeah, those pictures will definitely be used for something.

    I'm going to compile a .pdf in a Player's Handbook style for easy browsing, and post the Megaupload on /tg/ when it's finished.

    Though we still have lots of stuff to do.

    Immediate Agenda

    1. Skills
    2. Feats
    3. Class Abilities and General Abilities
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)23:20 No.5044902
    Yep, that's definately a good objective.

    Oh, and regarding hybrid mana - while not actually relevant as a mechanic, there would be some spells that are cross color without needing both, I imagine. For example, a minor stealth spell might be blue 1 OR black 1.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)23:23 No.5044945
    i assume all the style guide photos will be used then?

    also, i'm expecting a giant Niv-mizzet mugshot. because that's what he'd demand
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)23:24 No.5044957
    Yeah, I think minor spells of stealth would fall under the category of neutral spells, so accessible by any race that has either blue or black as its colors.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)23:25 No.5044969
    If someone directs me to a download/source of them, certainly.
    >> I_CLUB_SEALS 06/29/09(Mon)23:31 No.5045052


    gives you a list of style guide stuff on wizards site.
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)23:33 No.5045071
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)23:38 No.5045122
    they're on wizards and mtg salvation wiki, but just to save time (and not in any particular order with various other ravnica crap added in)
    >> Anonymous 06/29/09(Mon)23:52 No.5045225

    oh god, Ravnican Flowers for Algernon ;_;
    >> OP 06/29/09(Mon)23:56 No.5045254
    Thread's fully saved by the way, guys. I'll have a big repost with all the collected information tomorrow morning.

    Feel free to keep chatting tonight, but I might not see/include some of it.
    >> Sheep 06/30/09(Tue)01:13 No.5045815
    Well, it looks like our work here is done. I want to try this out now, maybe OP can host on IRC some time for us to test the gameplay?
    >> OP 06/30/09(Tue)01:24 No.5045883
    yaarg matey on AIM. I run games all the time.

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