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THE HEKTOR HERESY is a collaborative writing project that aims to re-tell the age old story of the Fall of Mankind into the Grim Darkness of the Future. We started by supposing a slightly different end to the Age of Strife, with different Primarchs being born in the Himalayzian Mountains and a different (but recognisably 40k) galaxy awaiting the Great Crusade. Things are now getting to the point where Hektor's rebellion is being covered.

We're happy to welcome new contributors. If you'd like to have a read of the project (and please, don't pitch an idea without having read anything!), there are a few possible starting points. The main page is:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_/tg/_Heresy
While the main timeline is at:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki//tg/_Heresy_Timeline
If you're a believer in the Beakies is best school of GeeDubs, you might find it helpful to start at:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Legiones_Astartes_(Hektor_Heresy)
But we have plentiful greeblies
>>
Last thread >>49636210

>spitballing
>discussion
>confusion because we lost track of who was talking to who

I'd also like to set the record straight. Exactly one person was ever "kicked out" of the project, and that was Nathanog. And it wasn't because his work didn't agree with Lumey or anyone else. It was because his work was terrible and he was a toxic influence who would throw temper tantrums and personal attacks at anybody for any reason. Several of the Anons who are no longer working on the project left because they were tired of taking his abuse.
>>
>That moment when you decide to collect all the little references to Vietnam in your Legion page in the event someone decides to make you point it out and notice that the entire section on training is outdated because you got rid of your Legion using a different planet in the system for their Fortress Monastery.
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>>49650820
Good job.

Now are you cool with the Crimson Eagles being 80's AirCav?
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>>49650510
>only Merrill makes threads

I was going to, but I wanted to work some stuff out first, namely: we need to figure out a plan for moving forward.

Do we need/want to cut legions?
If so, how far are we intending to go here?
Project structure/organisation was brought up, specifically the lack thereof. What to do about that?


What other questions need to be asked and answered?

--
Also:
Last call, any feedback on this?
>>49639177
>>
>>49651009
>80's AirCav
you know Vietnam wasn't in the 80's though right?
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>>49651011
>Cut Legions
I see no real reason to do so. Many of the ones that are out of date or otherwise problematic are currently in discussion or otherwise being worked on.

>Feedback
I'd suggest having the Mechanicum putting the Legion under sanction, because it sounds formal and doesn't necessarily require a whole lot of specificity. Then put something formal for the Mech dragging their heels to supply and support the Legion afterwards.

Aside from that, I don't get why they merge their departments and how that allows the Mechanicum to find things out.

>>49651009
Sorry about being short last night. Got back from working a shift to find a whole lot of dick waving and people yelling at each other, was significantly less than happy, and probably should have just posted a couple of jokes and fucked off. It's fine to do an Air Cav Legion.

If you want to avoid overlapping themes, a lot of the Vietnam stuff in the IR comes down to a ton of little references and the overall theme from Apocalypse Now of both succumbing to the jungle mentality and "going native."
>>
>>49651130
>>49651009
>It's fine to do an Air Cav Legion.
Joking aside, this is cool with me too. I wanted to do air cav back when the 13th were solely a counter insurgency legion.

Still have one Air Cav specialist unit, kind of. Though they're more ww2 commando's in 40k than Air Cav.

>>49651130
>I'd suggest having the Mechanicum putting the Legion under sanction, because it sounds formal and doesn't necessarily require a whole lot of specificity. Then put something formal for the Mech dragging their heels to supply and support the Legion afterwards.
I have the latter regardless of if I went through with the rest of the idea. But ok, sanctions and maybe some kind of repayment or favour thing; getting seconded to the Mech briefly to smack some recalcitrant Forgeworlds back into line could work.

>I don't get why they merge their departments and how that allows the Mechanicum to find things out.
I finished the section on the legion page last night, so theres a fuller explanation there. But basically its because the support arms have to operate sort of autonomously to support the ton of compliance groups the legion splits into, and manage their own operations.
And also because in theory, it'd streamline support; ie, you only have to speak to one guy to get what you need, not 2-3.

In theory.
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>>49651024
Dude. Yes

But AirCav saw some use in the 80's, like in Panama. They aren't really Vietnam, nor are they exactly Gulf War. They're both/neither/an in between state.

They're honestly a paratrooper caricature. But with air drooped vehicles

>>49651130
Yeah Crimson Eagles are the other side of the coin.

>If they run they're a Xeno. If they stay they're a well trained xeno

Fuck going native, it's time for murder and napalm

>>49651242
Yeah my dream with the Crimson Eagles involves Drop Pods and vehicles therein. Of course the veterans and snowflakes of the legion would have more in common with Force Recon or Rangers than Paratrooper Cav Scouts (Which would comprise the large majority of the legion)
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>>49651390
Paratrooper Cav Scouts. Those are the words I've been looking for
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>>49651390
Is this the suggestion to replace the VII legion?
I haven't followed it so far, but I'm around now if you want to run your ideas by me?

You have my interest with Air Cav marines legion.
Got anything on the primarch and legion itself aside from the doctrine?
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>>49651426
I'm beginning to think the VII Legion is cursed.
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>>49651426
Yeah Crimson Teeth->Crimson Eagles.

Reposting from last thread
>>>49645159
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>>49651501
Cut VII Legion. No legions. Guard only. Final Destination.
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>>49651595
May as well just make our own setting at that point.

>>49651579
>/k/ legion
Piques my interest more.
But that's all quite vague right now.
The VII slot needs to be filled - the Teeth have been cut by group majority vote. So, replacements have a home.

But most replacements get spitballed, then worn down over the process of fitting it into the slot or just the general "writing it up past an idea" stage.

So while I'm here, develop the ideas and throw them, see what sticks.

You have a doctrine sketched out, but what about the primarch?
The legions culture? (Note, I don't mean what historical IRL culture are they. I mean legion traditions, philosophies, principles, themes etc. Ie what makes them who they are beyond doctrine)
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>>49651716

>>49647482
>Aerial Aces is cool, although between maybe the scribes and maybe that american legion idea, there's a lot of competition for the air-to-ground thing.
>SHH! Idea!

>This has something... America... Planes... Aces... Knights of the sky... RAF...

>This may solve our problems. American knights of the sky! Toss in some suicide pilots to cover the Japanese legion angle that I want and we got all bases covered!

Pictured: The Great Crusade.
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>>49651716
As I said, VII is cursed.
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>>49651778
We could try switching around lost legions.
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>>49651801
I don't think it's the Legion number, just that Legion.

>>49651766
Yes.
We must have the Flying Tigers IN SPACE to complete the image.
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>>49651716
Did you read the quoted posts in the old thread?
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>>49651898
I only say this because they where my comprehensive outline for the legion
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>>49651898
My mistake on that.

Ok some initial feedback:

>Primarch
a farming background is different.

The enlisting and fighting a not WW1/WW2 mashup is pretty much identical to Uriel Salazars youth. Right down to those involved being Reds, Nazi's etc, though Uriel is fighting for the Reds in his.

Home country nuked - nice.

Breaks something in him - I had this exact line for Uriel.
HOWEVER, there is potentially a good opportunity here; both primarchs go through hell in different ways. But they come out of it having reacted differently - the contrast *could* work nicely.

Found in space - Thats Arelex's schtick. Though this is a tad different, so could work. Its an easy fix though - we can deal with that as it comes.

>Pre Primarch legion
>Recon
IR mostly hit this, but the Justicars also to a lesser extent.
There is potentially room for another, as the 13th aren't really recon specifically.
I mention this as they'd be the 2 you need to differentiate the legion from.

Assault and stealth, again same as above, from varying degrees, also possibly the SB too.

Happy go lucky - NICE.
We have a lot of grim or serious guys, so this is welcome. They'd get on with the 13th, who joke and pull prank on people too.
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>Post Primarch
>Shock and Awe
works for me
>transition easily
from recon and stealth assaults to overt, m60 from the hip with napalm accessories *easily*?
This is easily rectified though, and it does provide opportunity to show legion growth as they overcome new challenges, on and off the battlefield - ie adapting to new methods and their primarch.

Strike teams and flanking cavalry - SB, IR, and several others are in this territory. Some tweaking and its fine though, the concept of Air Cav itself isn't done, so that does work. Its just a case of differentiation.

>IA recruitment
unless they're child soldiers (interesting in and of itself) they'd have trouble using this. OU lore is they have to be teens, preferably on the younger side to take to geneseed. If you went this route, they'd struggle with recruitment, with high rates of failure etc.
Most legions take recruiting worlds as they progress, so you'd always have a few worlds nearby most the time.

>Cocksure or cynical

Cocksure is good, i like that.
Arrogrant, over-confident marines works brilliantly and contrasts a lot with a lot of other legions.
Cynical doesn't work so good though, it'll take you too close to the 13th and the Cataphracts; you'd be overlapping when you have the brilliance of cocksure arrogance above.

thinking they're better than others and doing more dangerous shit when there are legions who specialise in Zone Mortalis and siege assault.... thats fertile ground for rivalries and the like.
Which is good, from a fitting in perspective.

Its actually quite similar to some of the ideas put forward for the Teeth when they had their anon. So it has my vote.
Just needs tweaking and patience to fit it in neatly and minimise the amount of rewriting needed.

>conclusion
This is a viable idea. Some aspects like legion culture could do with some exploring, as it'll help you differentiate the Eagles from others, which is important given we have a roster of 18 legions.
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>>49652237
Yeah I'm real flexible on the Primarch's backstory and that of the pre Primarch Liberators.

As for the Post Primarch Crimson Eagles I'm a little more steadfast. Did you read that part?
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>>49652297
>Cynical doesn't work so good though, it'll take you too close to the 13th and the Cataphracts; you'd be overlapping when you have the brilliance of cocksure arrogance above.

I missspoke. I meant they posses a certain Black Humor and joviality in the face of death
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>>49652381
>dark humour
Ah. Well that clears things up a bit. However, the 13th are the cynical outlook, "what can you do but laugh" black humour, jovial in the face of death types too.
"They've got us surrounded, the poor bastards" etc

Was basing it off British squaddie humour way back when.

There's maybe room for it still, given the Eagles are more happy go lucky, turned cocksure and arrogant. I'm not entirely sure there though.
UK and US forces have different humour, as far as I'm aware, though its very similar.
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>>49652505
I wouldn't know, I can only attest to American soldier humour.

So all in all you think this will work? As a base concept, at least?
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>>49652579
Yeah, it certainly seems that way.
But the concept is still quite vague.
Its still got to be turned into a lot of words. Cohesive and consistent words. And that's where most anons fall down.

Theres a fair number of things in the "needs to be worked out" status, which might be a headache down the line.
It'd be best to clear those bits up now before you get to writing up copy. Save you writing and rewriting forever...

But be prepared to tweak a fair bit though. I'm one anon, other anons have other opinions; looking over the threads it seems to be ok with most people so far, but no-one is all-seeing all-knowing. People miss relevant bits of info and tweaks need making to accomodate.

Write up some primarch personality and wargear, (maybe a short preliminary draft of the youth&coming of the Emperor too).
Then legion doctrine, organisation, culture and the other nuts and bolts.
The history can be worked out from there once you, and we, all have a firmer idea of who these guys are.

Start with the Primarch stuff, as they're reflective of and central to their legions while they're alive/around.

I'm here for a couple more hours so take advantage.
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>>49652237
>Pre-Primarch SB Stealth and Assault
Actually, they're a pretty generic hit-and-run force before Tiran steps in.

>Post Primarch SB Strike/flanking cavalry
They focus more on setting up massive ambushes to take down a large contingent. While they might work as a flanking element for another Legion during a team-up, their strike teams and flankers are more designed to lead/chase an opponent into a predesignated kill zone.
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>>49652710
>>Primarch of the VII Legion
>>Caligor Kincaid

>Kincaid crashed into the wheat fields of Taletar, one of the greatest countries of the war torn planet of Haravi. His impact set the entire crop ablaze, and from the ashes of the fields the humble farmers found their adopted son. First thought of as a curse the boy soon proved himself as a blessing, growing faster than any of their other children, who resented the boy for his burning of their entire crop and his seemingly miraculous growth. Caligor at the age of ten re tilled and seeded his parents crops in two nights, saving the declining clan who had been relying on their quickly depleting grain stores.f
>>
bump
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>>49653784
>Caligore quickly became a local legend, tilling fields single handedly and beating back gangs with his brothers, who agter some time accepted him as a friend and brother. Once the Primarch reached his eighteenth year it was clear his sleepy farm town would never be big enough for him, outclassing everyone of his school mates in sports and the liberal arts, his blunt and cocky nature hiding a shrewd and passionate orator that believed deeply in the fundaments of his nation, that of Democracy, freedom, and liberty for all.
>>
Alright, this is going to be my last post for the night, so I'm just going to jot down some thoughts I had for the rest of the group to mull over. Go ahead and respond if you want, I'll check them over whenever I get back online.

First, Scale Bearers:
>Finish Task&Org section
>Complete a Warrior's Path section that details progression within the Legion
>Include more detail about what happens to them after Tiran's Death and increase the detail of some of their characters and the Second Founding Chapters.

Once that's done, found some issues with the IR that need to be addressed:
>Go through the bit discussing IR training and update that section
>Change up Wakiya to have a greater Mechanicum involvement and turn it into Mech throwing them under the bus
>Go over Ullanor and other later events leading out of the GC and into the Heresy
>Increase details for the IR major characters.

About Ullanor, I had an idea. We know the IR were behind the lines, doing guerrilla raids, assassinating leaders, and otherwise just doing whatever they could to cause (increase?) chaos in the Orks' command structure and making a royal mess of things. And even though Merrill and Co. don't care much for honors, they still appreciate recognition for the shit they do. How about they don't get what they believe they deserve? Seriously, the Legion's out there, surrounded by Orks, with little to no support, for the duration of the campaign. They get back and get to watch a bunch of dudes get showered by awards for the success, while they get very little. And from their perspective, they just about made this whole damn campaign successful. Everybody else just had to clean up. THEY were out there getting their hands dirty and turning the WAAAAGH! against itself, etc., etc.

It's a bit petty, but it's also kinda justifiable. And it also starts a seed of distrust for the Imperium as a whole and creates feelings of being ignored and/or isolated, which kinda starts a snowball effect. Thoughts?
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>>49654986
resentment was the word I was looking for in that last line. Feelings of resentment.
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>>49655075
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It's my day off today so I intend to do some Entombed writefagging. Here's a basic outline, input is welcome before I get started and I'd appreciate help editing and C+C once it's written.

>POV of a mechanicus Magos Explorator who's the mechanicum primary for the 666th expedition in charge of all its tech, its skitarii maniple auxiliaries, and the retrieval of tech from worlds they bring to compliance (is that an appropriate rank? I'm still learning about the Mechanicus)
>Takes place just after Golgothos is found and he's seen in his chassis for the first time
>focused on Magos' opinions and speculations on the Emtombed and their new primarch during the siege of Craftworld Kaelor
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>>49656925
Rank should be good. You could always go for an Arch-Magos.

A Magos just means 'in charge of something'. An Arch-Magos is in control of several Magi and owns several foundries. They're usually at least a couple centuries old.

Then again shit in the Mechanicus has been left purposefully vague, contradictory, and just plain different from author to author and source to source.

Not to mention, this is a Mechanicum era position. That's 9k years before 40k. Jesus christ it could have changed in any number of ways. Magos sounds nice and imposing, so go for it.
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>>49657013

Actually there is a defined rank structure. Below the Fabricator General of a Forgeworld is the Fabricator Locum, the second-in-command and designated sucessor. Below them are the Adepts. Each Adept is the master of a Forge-City, a leading expert in their domain and a major power player in the Politics of that Forgeworld. Below the Adepts are the Arch-Magi and the Magi.
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>>49650510
Sup bitches. How's it going?
>>
I did some shit.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Talk:The_Entombed
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>>49657125
So what would be the most accurate rank in this situation, or are you just trying to clarify things?

The 666th Expedition

My working name is Magos-Explorator Xenoch.
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>>49658683
I'm a dumb person how do I tell what's new/changed?
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>>49659052
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Magos
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>>49659069

Everything below the Coalition of Sepulchra is new.
>>
Hey Golgy, check:

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Inferox_%22The_Burned_King%22
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This upcoming book came out of nowhere
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>>49660463

You want Horus Heresy General mate. I think here that book would be about a War Scribe trying to get his archeotech out of the hands of Hektor.
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I'm off for the weekend!
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>>49650510
You know, I always wondered if some legions pre-Heresy were given the chance to send space marines as honor guards to the Emperor. I don't mean the Imperial Fists, who were basically security forces, I mean like actual bodyguards for E-money. That would be so fucking cool, getting to guard the Emperor and chill in the Imperial Palace.

Or were the Custodes a highly selective force which didn't allow outsiders?
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>>49661404
Prolly the latter. The Emperor trusted no one.
>>
>>49661404
During the Crusade, I don't see why that *couldn't* have happened.

I think the biggest reason it probably *didn't* happen is that few if any Marines would have been equal or better than the Custodes the Emperor already had, and he would want his Marines out in the field fighting instead.
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>>49661404

What were the Crusader Host?
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>>49661404
The Custodes were completely different from Space Marines. Their genetic base, the process of creating them, and the goals of their training and indoctrination were all completely different. Presumably Emps had Custodes because he didn't want Space Marines as bodyguards, that's not the vision he had for them.
>>
//Initializing Fold Quantum Communication Protocol v31.0.0.5.7... no errors detected.
//Authentication pulse request received... key authenticated.
//Requesting persistent connection using subnode distributed relay protocol... granted.
//Verifying registration with holonic network... verified using profile::INSIDIATOR
//Establishing connecting with HvarHolonNet[Insidator Node -text]... connection stable.
>search(@public.archive) polity::ullanor && group::entombed && tag::"first encounter" ? summary
//1 result found... listing in summary mode
[1] Sugeer Beta System - Dreadnought Recovery

"Explain to me precisely what I am looking at," asked Commodore Thixomir Xohac as he stared down into the operating theater below where a crowd of scientists, doctors, and technicians had gathered around a boxy war machine of grey and white adorned in - hopefully not real - human skulls.

"We recovered it from the surface of... I believe they call it..." Doctor Iskra Zoric scratched at her brow as she tried to recall the name of the world, "Sugeer Beta 13? I'm not keen on the details myself but the report is here in the file." She handed the much taller vetrovnak a tablet. "Ground team found it during the sweep after the purge of the orkoids."

The commodore took the tablet though he didn't so much look at it. "Remnants from the failed Imperial operation then. Why the interest?"

"The ground teams detected life signs inside it."

"So it's a combat vehicle then?"

"That would be preferable to the truth of the matter. It is the reason we're not allowing human support staff in."

Thixomir arches an eyebrow at his chief science officer but she replied only by tapping on the glass to turn his attention back down to the operating theater below. The technicians were in the process of delicately removing the layers of armor that cradled a pod where the life signs were detected. He could have simply looked at the scans but where would the fun in that be?
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>>49661585

Even at the painstakingly careful pace the teams were operating at it didn't take them long to do their work to reveal its content. Several of the more junior technicians had their Noosphere assessment values spike by several dozen as their minds could only come to grim conclusions as they studied over the various life support apparatuses revealed as the outer layers of the pod - no it was more a casket in design - came off.

Thixomir had hoped the fluctuations would stabilize but those hopes were dashed as they cut through the last barrier separating the still-living contents of this casket from direct observation. NAVs spiked higher in the room as a cold fury gripped the youths who had yet to see a generation of humans come and go.

"Grisly isn't it," Doctor Zoric finally commented.

"It's... why?" Thixomir could only stare at the sight of the atrophied, limbless occupant and his cybernetic - extremely primitive by modern Hvar standards - life support. He noticed his own NAV increase by a few points momentarily. "Actually I don't care why."

"I didn't really think you would. Of course I'll still speculate in my report once I'm done. What do you want done with him?"

"I want," Thixomir paused to think for a moment before he grinned just enough for his fangs to show through. "I want him to receive proper medical treatment. Full tissue regeneration, everything we have."

"There's no way his NAV is within regulation limits. He'll never be allow-"

"It's not to pacify him Doctor Zoric," he interrupted. "It's to unbalance him for interrogation."
>>
>>49661585
>>49661596
I like it. And assume they get more than they bargained for.

I'm general, I'd like to thank everyone for being awesome tonight.
>>
>>49661488
They were something a bit different. The task of the Crusader Host was (ironically) not to take part in the Great Crusade. Rather than striking out into the stars, the Host remained on Terra to record the fallen among their brethren. They also had some ceremonial roles, but they definitely weren't the Emperor's bodyguard simply because he often left Terra and they never did.
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>>49651390
So, skimming back through the last thread, I see that I'm expected to complain bitterly about this and/or try to run off anyone proposing it on pain of hypocrisy.

But honestly, I don't have a huge problem with the "descent of angels" type doctrine. Actually, I rather like the Blood Angels themselves, and I think it's fine to do a variation on that general combat doctrine spliced with a different theme. My main point of advice is to make the cultural basis more of a pastiche. Draw on a broader base and the product will seem more original while being easier to write. If you've got 80s America meets Edwardian Britain meets the Polynesian Age of Navigation (for example) readers will catch the first thing they recognize, use that as their base, and then start noticing how you come up with these "novel" twists shamelessly looted from history. Or, if the reader is better read and more open-minded, they'll note that you at least bothered to cast your net widely when doing research.

Secondly, I suspect that two writers isn't going to work - although that has a way of resolving itself, it sometimes results in zero. So, perhaps it would be a good idea to divide responsibility to one anon writing the Primarch and one writing the Legion?

What else is there... it can help to have a general role in mind for the Legion, and to make clear to yourself how they do not overlap with others. This is a frustrating and time-consuming exercise, because it either involves the hard task of reading other people's ideas (which are, unfortunately, not always neatly expressed on the wiki) or the equally hard task of steaming ahead and being criticized for not taking the alternate course. Invariably, it ends up being a bit of both.

Lastly - good luck!
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>>49662156

The problem is that so many concepts have alread been used before, to mixed results. Polynesian Age of Navigation was the Bloodbound, which were once the replacement for the Gorgers, before the Crimson Teeth took their place. And Edwardian Britain is part of the Lions Rampant. So many ideas have come and gone and left nothing behind, it's kind of sad.
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>>49662270
I don't really see those as problems, but you're arguing with an example rather than the idea it expresses.
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https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Flenching_of_Skythykos

One of the first in the campaigns of the Sons of Fire. Feedback appreciated. Already received criticism but seeking more feedback.

>>49662270
>>49662590
Yeah I don't see the issue here. So long as the British inspirations/influences in the Airborne are not overt like they are in the LR, that's not an issue.

>The Bloodbound covered that-

The Bloodbound are dead. Long live the Airborne!
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>>49645159
>>49652579
Arbites Anon I believe it can be done and I like your idea. You have a good approach. Now just get it working into a good outline, and propose it with all your ideas and feedback refined into a complete thought - something that can show a perhaps a chance of being completed. Then we'll see a definitive means of saying "Yeah, that's cool as shit, you get the slot."
>>
I noticed that the Imperial Cult can of worms was lying open. So, let me spill it on the counter and see what we've got.

>How does it get started?

This doesn't need to change much from the OU. The Emperor sacrifices himself for mankind at the climactic Siege of Terra. The survivors of the Siege, especially the civilians, are traumatised and live an uncertain, materially deprived existence during the Reformation. In the OU, Fatidicus spends about a century building up a cult of a billion followers on Terra - maybe 1% of the population. The process is mirrored on other worlds, with (I presume) cults finding more success in the more ravaged regions of the Imperium. Over the centuries, these cults merge into the early Ecclesiarchy. It won't become a state religion until the M32s, over a thousand years after the Heresy.

>What about politics? Won't Gaspard Lumey crush this?

Not really. Like Sulla and Washington, Lumey relinquishes the heights of power once the Imperium is past the immediate crisis of the Heresy and Scouring. (We haven't discussed the exact events, but I can't see Lumey being generalissimo for more than a decade.) During the time that he is at the height of his power, there are much bigger fish to fry.

In the long run, the growth of such cults is a concern for Lumey. But to him they're a symptom of the scarcity and uncertainty of the Reformation. One man, no matter how powerful, can't turn that around and attempting to do so could leave a very bad example to future warlords. So he retires from the world, leaving his written works and gene-sons to protect the old culture of the Imperium.
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>>49663854

The Founding of the Imperial CUlt can be similar, but it is everything that happens afterwards that will be different. Even if Lumey is not in power for long, his influence will remain. In canon, the head of the High Lords of Terra is referred to as the 'Lord Guilliman' in honour of the Primarch who founded them and who stabilized the Imperium. While the head of the High Lords here being 'Lord Gaspard' is not inevitable, it is guaranteed that the influence of Lumey will be significant. This means the Imperial Cult will not be tolerated and be held from any sort of power for as long as possible. There will be persecution of Emperor Worshippers in a similar vein to the persecution of Christians in the mid-period Roman Empire, and the Imperial Faith will certainly not be as bombastic or triumphant as it is in the OU.
>>
I like the idea of it not being as bombastic but it still needs a few kicks to get it going. Something should happen that would make it political suicide for Lumey or those in his camp to completely quell.
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>>49664003

They wouldn't be able to completely quell it, any more than the Romans were able to quell the Christians or Jews. But for the duration of his tenure as High Lord the Cult would be underground, and for a long time afterwards.

Another thought is that there is no Lectio Divinitatus for the Cult. There would likely be a dozen different Holy Books, some mutually contradictory. The Faith would be divided for much longer because as an underground faith it doesn't have the power to discipline itself and eradicate those splinters the main creed deems heretical. Instead of the Catholic Church of Canon, I'd see a more Orthodox Church with a main one and a number of splinter cults that the main cult cannot eradicate.
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>>49663941
>There will be persecution of Emperor Worshippers in a similar vein to the persecution of Christians in the mid-period Roman Empire, and the Imperial Faith will certainly not be as bombastic or triumphant as it is in the OU.
That's a strange sentence!

If you look at the persecutions of the Christians, most of them were highly unsuccessful. Cruel and unusual punishments just made the Christians sympathetic to their Pagan neighbours while providing the faith with martyrs to inspire new generations. Julian the Apostate's schemes were perhaps more promising, but by that stage it's trying to turn back the wheel of history.

As for the comparison to Guilliman? Roboute didn't believe in the Imperial Cult. In fact he presided over the humiliation of the Word Bearers for their transgressions. But the mutterings of a few ragged under-hivers were simply not a priority during the Reformation. The wars against Chaos spanned fourteen years and devastated the core territories of the Imperium. Even after containing the Heretics, there would be resurgent Xenos, piracy, and renegacy to deal with, not to mention the more mundane problems of re-establishing administration. Although Guilliman was too busy to stamp out the Imperial Cult (and remember, it was small beans), I'm sure that he left exactly nothing to establish the divinity of the Emperor.
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>>49664034
>They wouldn't be able to completely quell it, any more than the Romans were able to quell the Christians or Jews. But for the duration of his tenure as High Lord the Cult would be underground, and for a long time afterwards.

I know it's fashionable to denounce me as a dictator, but have things gone so far that I can no longer write my character's story? I am telling you that Gaspard Lumey is too busy to persecute the nascent Imperial Cult. They wouldn't have a chance of getting into the top ten of his worries until a century after the Siege of Terra.
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>>49664057

Guilliman might not have believed in the Imperial Cult, but he didn't brutally repress or clamp down on it either. He did preside over the humiliation of the Word Bearers, but he did regret that in private. In this Map of Macragge, note the Catheric Monastery. Guilliman didn't tear it down and slaughter the worshipers, he let them worship openly in his own city. As fitting him his approach to Religion was the same as that of pagan Rome, which tolerated or ignored the various beliefs of its subject peoples as long as they acknowledged the Emperor as the high priest of their pantheons in his role as Pontifex Maximus.

So Guilliman didn't make things any easier, but he never put roadblocks in the way of the Emperor Worshipers. He never actively tried to suppress or destroy them. Lumey, given that he is part the Terror, would certainly made far stronger moves to combat the Imperial Creed, and his successors would follow in his footsteps.
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>>49664183
>map
Lore, I wish you wouldn't do this. Firstly, you're presenting a Black Library source as though it's ironclad canon, when GW's stated view on that sort of stuff is "loose canon". Secondly, even if the source was good, it's not compelling. There's also a "temple" and "chapel" on the key, but we aren't given details on what exactly goes on there - and if you think I'm being overly skeptical, consider the presence of the Red Basilica, which the map makes clear is not a religious building.

>Lumey, given that he is part the Terror, would certainly made far stronger moves to combat the Imperial Creed, and his successors would follow in his footsteps.
On authorial fiat, I can just say "no, he wouldn't". But I'm quite happy to explain. The reason for ignoring the minor cults isn't tolerance, it's relevance. A billion faithful (and that a century after the Heresy) is beneath small change for the warlord of a realm that counts over a million worlds.

Now, if you want to argue for the Inquisition having a different outlook... maybe? But they wouldn't be taking orders from Gaspard Lumey, so his would be a very indirect influence.
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>>49664261

I have no arguments with any of that. The real argument though is this: do we want the same old Imperial Faith from the OU? A monolithic Catholic Theocracy that unhindered, emerged from the shadows to assume power and then got rich and more interested in its own power and influence then anything else until the reign of some insane Ecclesiarch and the rise of a reformation figure? That's boring. I would have thought the History of the Imperial Faith would be considerably different in this timeline given that there is no Lorgar, no Lectitio Divinatus and no unifying creed that all those who worship the Emperor follow, plus a very different Lord Commander who's creation of the High Lords or whoever run the Imperium would affect how the Imperium is ruled from then on out.
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>>49662156
>>49662270
>>49662650
My views on cultural front are that, since this Legion is basically forerunners and recruit from the front lines the baseline culture will be that of the unit, then in writefaggotry the cultural differences between each individual marine becomes a little more apparent.
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>>49664335
The OU Ecclesiarchy had a thousand years to emerge from the shadows. The story isn't boring, it's untold.

>>49664336
Oh! Yeah, I wanted to do something like that with the Scions of Europa before they were cut. Let's see... some of the terminology went to the Heralds and wouldn't be appropriate in any case, but the basic idea (for the Scions) was that they picked up their aspirants as battlefield orphans and trained them on their ships. The good ones get the gene-seed, the less good ones become serfs and- well, officially there are no bad ones! You probably have your own spin on it but it's a cool recruiting policy and none of the current Legions are using it.
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>>49664380

We don't want the OU Ecclesiarchy. Or do we?
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>>49664336
Hey... have you worked out much with this Primarch? Because if you're going to have him severed from his homeworld and base him on Cold War America, you could do a twist on Angron's meeting with the Emperor. Have your guy loyally leading his elite band of beret-wearing killers in the service of the local Land of the Free when the missiles are launched. The Emperor yanks him out of radiation's way, leaving him to come to terms with going spectacularly AWOL.

>>49664402
At the risk of nausea: the OU Ecclesiarchy is just an outline. It looks superficially like the Catholic Church but the meat of its operations are up for grabs. Anything we do with the Ecclesiarchy (short of making the Ministorum a non-religious organisation or severing it from the state) is going to be "like the OU". I think drawing some material from the Orthodox Church is probably a good idea because the tech-priests are already taking water from the Catholic well.
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>>49664444
>OU Ecclesiarchy is just an outline

I'll take it you haven't read Blood of Martyrs or any of the other books that cover the Ecclesiarchy. There's more written about them than you might think.
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>>49664444
Not much. I have a name now, which is better than nothing. But the idea was the Emperor negotiated a cease fire between the nations then yanked Caligor. I like to thing of this guy as Angron had he not been fucked over from the start
>>49653784
>>49654575
I'm gonna continue this later
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>>49664489
I haven't read Blood of Martyrs (not a DH player) but what else is there that covers the Ecclesiarchy?

>>49664509
>Angron had he not been fucked over from the start
OK, that's a decent starting point. My advice is to let a picture of him develop in your mind slowly and try to get some of the more prosaic/technical details about the Legion written down. So long as you're making some progress somewhere, nagging and doubt won't be too much of a problem.

Another spot of advice before you go: The Heralds of Hektor page (https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Heralds_of_Hektor) is getting a little bit long, but in my view it has the right headings. If I was trying to put together a Legion from scratch now, I'd take a notebook and put a heading down every two pages so that I could jot things down as they occurred to me. (You could do the same sort of thing electronically but I'm old-fashioned.) Nothing is worse than having a great idea for the Legion's elite formations while waiting for a train then forgetting it before getting home.
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>>49663854
One issue I have is that when you get a religion spread through underground (or even above-board) means over a large distance such as a continent. Or Galaxy But don't have an official organization which dictates the beliefs, said beliefs become increasingly disparate in views and subject to regional views. I don't think an official, single church would arise without some official backing.

What I'd personally like to see is a more diverse mixture of sometimes contradictory views and interpretations which get unified/codified in a manner similar to the IRL Council of Nicea. It both makes more sense to me and it allows other people with interesting/unique outlooks of Emperor worship to put a write up of their own cults. Because those disparate views don't just disappear overnight. So it is possible that some people might hold on to different interpretations while still paying lip service to the state religion.

>>49664087
>Lumey doesn't have time or energy to persecute Emperor Worshippers
Yeah, but that doesn't mean all of his subjects don't. I could see a few ambitious planetary governors trying to stamp things out. Let's not forget that except for Nero and Constantine, most of the Roman Emperors couldn't be bothered with Christianity. A lot of the discussion of persecution never happened on a large scale. It was mostly smaller leaders who were pissed off. Further, the Roman Empire did allow freedom of religion, so long as you weren't in people's faces causing problems and actively trying to convert the masses.
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>>49664833
That was a mess. Need moar coffee. Think it gets the point across, though.
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>>49664833
>diversity
According to Blood of Martyrs, the Imperial Creed is spectacularly diverse, with savages throwing human sacrifices into volcanoes in order to feed the Emperor and other folks believing that the big guy actually lives in their sun. I kid you not. Reading between the lines, they present Fatidicus and the Temple of the Saviour Emperor as a conspiracy determined to fleece the newly faithful, tolerated by other institutions in the Imperium because they're self-funding and do get rid of the truly dangerous cultists.

>Rome
I don't really agree with your interpretation of history, but it's not relevant to the matter at hand. The Inquisition is probably rounding up every cult they can find to check them for signs of demon worship. Which makes them a fine suspect for sponsoring Fatidicus - means, motive, and opportunity, right?
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>>49665021
>I don't really agree with your interpretation of history

I see we're in a diplomatic mood today, also not relevant to the discussion.

>Inquisition rounding up cults and introducing them to Fat Albert
>It's too early for me to even try to spell that
I think we have to figure out the timeline more for that discussion. I always kinda figured the =][= would hold on to the Imperial Truth longer than others, as they have actual access to that information long past it being declared heretical not to worship Big E as a god. Which starts causing conflicts of interest and development. Which also brings up the question, at this time do they act as an IRL Inquisition, rounding up people and force converting it to Fatty's interpretation? Or do they spread the formal worship and when they leave, their "students" go spread the Good Word? Depending on the time period, I dislike the former option, and the second seems a decent fit.

>diversity
I knew that there were slightly different interpretations and customs across the board on most "civilized" planets of the Imperium, as well as numerous feral/deathworlds which were "allowed" more radical interpretations (the best example I know of would be Fenris, which is basically a kid's book of Viking mythology where Odin=Emperor Thor=Russ Loki=Chaos). But it still seems too uniform for my tastes.
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>>49665247

Debates on the nature of the Imperial Faith really should wait until after the roadblock of the Rebellion and the aftermath is overcome. It seems pointless to press on too far beyond that period when everything before it is still in a state of flux.
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>>49665282
touche, but a little bit of theological discussion might incite some new ideas or give people some basic thoughts for when that time arises.
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>>49665303

When we can't even decide on the Legions we have, wasting time on side projects that aren't relevant to the task at hand is a diversion of valuable resources.

Though I still think we're cleaving far too close to the canon with the Ecclesiarchy, and not taking advantage of the chance to distance it. One advantage Imperium Asunder has is that it has a different Ecclesiarchy-Analogue for each of their Crusader States, and even none in the ones that don't believe in the God-Emperor for whatever reason.
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>>49665247
>diplomatic mood
I might be coming down with something. Let me know if I don't revert to type in the next couple of days.

As for the Inquisition's ideology... your guess is as good as mine. They believe whatever it is that the Sigilite told them was true, then that doctrine becomes distorted as the organisation expands and ages. I'm more confident that they act as roving plenipotentiaries empowered to Fix Problems. Regarding the methods of the Temple, BoM has this to say:

>these zealous individuals found many who opposed them, but they had the resources, those of political and economic annihilation, to force compliance and soon thousands of cults and sects were absorbed into the new faith. Those who still refused to cooperate were preached against, entire newly converted populations rising up against those amongst their numbers who would not accept the Temple

>>49665282
It can help to know what, if anything, needs to be established ahead of time. Also, this discussion is fun. Remember fun?
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>>49665350

Fun? Fun is the one thing Imperium Asunder keep throwing in our faces as the thing we lost. They're the fun one, we're the dour and serious ones with our heads stuck up our own asses. They might be right, they've never had the endless issues with cut Legions and constant retcons, they've set their timeline out more or less from their Heresy all the way to M41 and the end times. We might learn a thing or two from them.
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>>49665384
This isn't the place to discuss Imperium Asunder. I usually have fun when I'm writing Hektor Heresy stuff and more often than not when I'm discussing it. If I didn't, I'd expect to be paid.
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>>49665384
>dour and serious
I like to think of it more as detail-oriented with a deep hatred for conflicting canon.
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>>49665384
Did somebody say cut legions?!
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>>49665684
I guess someone did. So, we have a stray thread from one of those cuts. Some time ago, a sensible anon asked about the name of the charming tank the OU calls the "Leman Russ". We settled fairly quickly and easily on the "Thomas Gaudin".

Unfortunately, that isn't going to work any more.

Sneaky and I had a quick chat about this and we thought that the best candidate was the "Tiran Osoros Battle Tank". I also like the idea of dubbing it the "Brennus", because that lends itself to the nickname "Bren". (Though I guess the TOBT could be a "Toby".)

Are there any other major contenders?
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>>49665787
The Judas Ranc Battle Tank.
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>>49665787

You do know the Leman Russ was never called that until after the Heresy, right?

Pre-Heresy, it was called the Mars Pattern Main Battle Tank. Not much of a name, but for the timeframe the project is still on one that fits well enough.
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>>49665504
Although, maybe we are supposed to be that way as someone who clearly read the entire Iron Rangers page, and certainly not just the first couple of sections, pointed out that it's written as a humor page.

>>49665684
That's cold.

>>49665787
Toby for cheesy awesomeness, Bren for historical amusement.

>>49665835
I thought it was because he found the STC or some nonsense...
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>>49665834
Obviously that's what all the sensible people call it.

>>49665835
I'm optimistic that the Heresy will be wrapped up soon.
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>>49665872

There's no explanation at present as to why the Mars pattern MBT became the Leman Russ. But read any 30k book about the Imperial Army and not once is it ever named the Leman Russ.
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>>49665889
>I'm optimistic that the Heresy will be wrapped up soon.

After two years and with the Legions still up in the air, you're probably the only one.
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>>49665909
The Legion situation has improved since this time last year. It's fine to see the problems, but they shouldn't blind you to the progress.
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>>49665889
>Obviously that's what all the sensible people call it.
Obviously.

On the to-do list:
>Haircut
>Snacks
>Masturbation
>Goda
>Markian Corps
>Gren (Working name) Bloody-Eyes
>Solidus Chromehounds
>Baskerville (Working name) Manhunters
>XXX Windups (Working name)

Is the Rosskan Strelky history-NO IT'S NOT.

Silver Cataphract history? Nope.

Rosskar history? Nothing on the Hektor Heresy.

Nevermind, I'll just wing it until I get oop nort.

>>49665909
This is as easy as just writing three paragraphs for some legions then three paragraphs for the Siege of Terra, then five paragraphs for the Scouring.
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>>49665909
>>49665938
I'll be honest, the only reason I'm going to do a section regarding the progression through the Scale Bearer "ranks" is a(n) likely futile attempt to create a more fluid command structure. So far, my planning is going https://youtu.be/S5Glfe6UeXQ?t=19s
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>>49666023
When did we get a porn division and why was I not informed?
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>>49666126
We thought you knew.
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>>49665938

The Augurs are still cartoonishly evil and dastardly, there is no good replacement for the Crimson Teeth (though half a dozen ideas that may never actually be any more than flash in the pan ideas), the Stone Men are still useless, so no, I wouldn't say the Legion situation has improved.
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>>49666126
Since Gaige became best girl, and I sent you a memo on Yahoo.
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>>49666144
OK, you're entitled to your opinion. What have you done (or are you going to do) to improve it?
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>>49666144
LEGIONES TERMINANTUR
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ALEXANDRI!!!

SoF Centurion
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>>49666307
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>>49666307
Not mine. I found it while trying to figure out the ursus claws reference from the internets.
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>>49666352
Full comic. I made a couple of reaction images out of it.
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>>49666381
Okay, but what are Ursus Claws?
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>>49666408
Disregard. I found it.
>>
Two things happened to intersect just now. I've been reading Josman's wonderful rules for the Primarchs and there was complaining about the Black Augurs.

Josman gave the Voidwatcher a rule called "Quiet Corruption" to balance his immense psychic powers. Those who care about the stats will go to the page, but storywise Josman suggests that Voidy was physically degraded by the warp powers he wielded. This is a Great idea, because in one fell swoop it solves the motivation question.

Voidwatcher isn't just evil. He's the only mortal among the Primarchs. He feels the sting of age. His hair thins. Arthritis starts to afflict his joints. Perhaps if he had lived out his days on Ostium among other mortal men, he would have accepted these facts as the logical end of life. But the Emperor plucked Voidwatcher from the world that had reared him and set him among his ageless brothers.

Why should he be the only mortal in their company? Why not spiteful Lumey or empty-headed Brennus? Why should Alexandri age along with him, then stop his journey still in the prime of life?

It isn't remotely fair, and the Voidwatcher doesn't just accept it. His descent into "evil" is an obsessive quest for eternal life, and he commits all manner of deviations and atrocities along the way, leading up to the Decimation - the ritual sacrifice of 90,000 of his gene-sons, under the pretense of "awakening their psychic potential".

And then the Heresy begins, and things get really bad.
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>>49666442

That doesn't make up for the fact that the Black Augurs Legion are basically a Legion of stereotypes. They are Skaven, turned into Space Marines. They are bad Saturday Morning cartoon villains. A whole Legion of Starscreams.

They're self-obsessed, paranoid, greedy, don't give a rats ass for their Legion's well being unless their own is at stake. The only reason why the Legion doesn't murder itself into extinction is because of plot armour.

That's just taking the concept of a Bad Legion and turning it up to 13, to the point where it's just retarded. They're the worst of the Thousand Sons and Night Lords without a single redeeming feature. The fact they still exist basically says the Emperor was braindead as well as a douche.

Really, their whole shtick needs to be made less balls-to-the-wall stupid. As is, they're just too evil to be credible.
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>>49666470
Are you the same fellow who didn't want to answer what they were doing, or had done, to help?
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>>49666144
>no good replacement for the Crimson Teeth

I'm gonna make the Crimson Eagles and I'm gonna make em work, so help me god
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>>49666589

I wish I could believe you, but someone once said the exact same thing about the Crimson Teeth, and the Bloodbound before them.

Still, go for it. Make me eat my words.
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>>49666589
That's the spirit. I had some advice up at >>49664572, though I forgot to add the most important bit - if you get stuck, ask for help! Far better to say that you could use a hand than to stay in a rut.
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>>49666605
Out of curiosity, what made them fail?
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>>49666023
>Baskerville (Working name) Manhunters
They ride giant dogs. Very scary, but also very cute.
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>>49666726
First, we must go back in time. To a more chaotic time, with 30 Legions, when a man insisted that the Sons of Fire weren't Khornate enough. So he hamfisted a Legion named the Gorgers with all the skill of a middle school student. When people would try to help him, he would launch personal attacks and throw temper tantrums at them. Without finishing the Gorgers, he decided to make a second, Slaaneshi Legion, which was laughably bad and essentially copy/pasting ideas from The Emperor's Children, the Zealots, and a couple other sources.

It then went on to another Anon, who had the idea of making them Meso-American marines, but he did not have any cultural knowledge to base his findings on. So people tried to help him, and he would write a combination of just writing down their ideas and shoving in other ideas and themes from other writers in the project. Then he decided to add in themes from Southern Pacific Isles, and the Legion collapsed under its own weight.

So he decided to start anew, with South Pacific influence being the focus, but again, basically knew that Samoans, Maori, etc. existed. After falling into the same downward spiral of copy/pasting other ideas into his Legion for some months, several of us got fed up at him, and he ragequit, came back, and ragequit again.

Somewhere in there, Alexandri tried to take over, but he got overridden because people didn't realize he was actually fixing things.
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>>49666726
>>49666966
Oh, right, and one of the first drafts of the Bloodbound Primarch involved said Primarch getting raped by his brother, and the Primarch murdering one of the Lost Primarchs. Who was also the brother that raped him.
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>>49667024
Kids, amirite?
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>>49667032
I'm actually putting in effort for the OG Crom to see this.
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>>49666966
Alexandri's version came after the Slaaneshi Legion was pitched. It's not bad:

https://1d4chan.org/index.php?title=Gorgers&oldid=247161

The Bloodbound actually fit in before the Meso-American stuff. They were written as a Very Dubious ethnic Legion, drawing on Maori culture as a basis for all sorts of dark deeds. Their author simply disappeared with the Legion incomplete and borderline racist. That said, it wasn't a problem to mingle the ideas involved into the Crimson Teeth as making the Legion less distinctly any given culture made it more like we were saying bad things about some strange fantasy people rather than the natives of New Zealand. But the "writer" of the Crimson Teeth was, as noted, incompetent.

I shouldn't add that I was not around when it was decided to bet on some unknown quantity rather than trust Alexandri to finish the job, but I've gotten so much bad press lately I feel compelled to say that one was definitely not my fault.
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Doing a bit of work on the Markian Corps right now.
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>>49667059
When it was given the go ahead, neither you nor Alex were around, and the group wasn't tracking that he was working on fixing them.
>>
So I'm reading a lot of this stuff and I want to just put it out there

>I'm working on this for fun.
>I'm super willing to compromise. I'm the new cat on the block, ready for some guidance
>I don't want to cram a bunch of cultural influences in the legion. Anyone not familiar with Joe or army shenanigans will just think the Crimson Eagles are pretty generic culture wise.
>I'm not TOTAL ass at writing

And

>I'm very busy all the time
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>>49667383
>When it was given the go ahead, neither you nor Alex were around,
You're mistaken. Alex was around. Uriel went just a few hours between discussing fiction Alex was writing involving the Gorgers (http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/36732826/#36805207) to proposing that LCK take over the Legion (http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/36805559/#36807576).
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>>49667467
>Not total ass at writing
As long as you don't write stuff that comes out as a terrible fanfic, you're pretty much good.
>>
>>49667639
And even then, we'll help you improve
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>>49667620
Well, my bad. But I do remember nobody realizing he was working on them.
>>
So on a scale of 1-10 if the mechanicus got their hands on an entire craftworld's wreckage how big of a haul would it be for them?
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>>49668785
Depends on who got to it first.
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>>49668826
spess muhreenz
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>>49668853
Depends on what those space marines do.
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>>49668910
crush the infinity circuit with their dreadnought power fists and slaughter all the eldar with their bolters
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>>49668963
And then what do they do? Tell the Mechanicum? Nuke the site from orbit?
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>>49668994
Give it to the mechanicum as a birthday present so they can have better relations in the future and have techpriests fix all their shit?
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>>49669024
Then it depends on which part of the Mechanicum gets to it first, and possibly if the Emperor interferes.
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>>49669091
>which part of the Mechanicum gets to it first
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>>49669180
Welcome to the Holy Roman Empire: Spacedark Edition.
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>>49669180
Think of the Mechanicum like the early Christian Church. There are heretics EVERYWHERE. But they're not capital-H chaos Heretics (not all of them, anyway), they're just people who believe stuff that won't form the orthodoxy.

So if it's found by some ultra-orthodox militants they'll just be like, "mmm, elftech burnz gud", while elite liberal types would be crawling all over that shit.
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>>49669350
Like those Al-Sherar and Ghalhal weirdos.
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>>49669550
Yeah. The Kazi wouldn't be caught fleshy messing with impious al-gine. I imagine that Ghalhal is a more pragmatic place.
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>>49669614
Ghalhal is pretty much Cowboy Bebop, Metro 2033, Istanbul, and Stalker thrown together.
>>
>Lumey anon is back
>Everyone goes back to kowtowing to him after badmouthing him for the last few threads
This seems like a healthy group dynamic. No wonder its taken you three years to get this far.
>>
Wait, Lumey's back?
>>
>>49669922
The "everyone is anon" fallacy doesn't really work when people are using names. If the guys who were voicing their gripes want to clear the air with me, they can do so. If not, there's not much I can do about it.

>>49669938
I can post some cats if that would help.
>>
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>>49669999
>Quads
Post cats.
>>
>>49669922
Lumey is a master of controlling shit while his lackeys claim he isn't controlling anything you paranoid weirdo.

These threads have no value to anyone but him and his friends.
>>
>>49670029
>Lumey is a master of controlling shit
Flattering, but if I had control over this project things would be very different. We'd probably still have the Nova Defenders.
>>
>>49670067
>writes almost all the content
>his lackeys cut all the content he doesn't like so his hands can stay clean
>coordinates a skypegroup for his friends to talk outside threads without witnesses
>not in control
>>
>>49670121
The only one of those that is really on the mark is the writing charge, and even that's a bit dated. But again, this is flattering and it's well-known that flattery will open all sorts of doors for you. I just hope that you haven't set your heart on something that I can't provide!
>>
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>>49670029
>Merrill and Uriel are Lumey's lackeys

>>49670121
>Other people cut all the content
If that was true, pretty sure the Children of Armok/Justicars would have been in the trash a couple of years ago.
>Skype was Lumey's idea
Actually, he fought tooth and nail to stay off of it.

Seriously now, I'm curious. Is this Yaotls, Nathanog, or LCK?
>>
>>49670311
Funny how the defense force always pops up with immediate replies the second the High Editor's name is besmirched.
>>
>>49670340
Nah, bro. You're besmirching me. I've probably been the single biggest pain in Lumey's ass throughout the lifetime of the project and railed against his ideas god knows how many times. And fought against his verdicts on I don't even know how many occasions long past everyone else sided with him. So, yeah, calling me his "lackey" is a bit of a smack.

Now, if I were a betting man, I'd say this was personal. Someone who knows the ins and outs of the project, but was never fully included in the last couple of years and/or feels personally spited by the group. There's only a handful of people here who fit that descriptor, so fess up. what was your tripfag when you were with us?
>>
>>49670029

>implying Lumey has friends

>>49670121

Jesus christ you just keep playing the one song over and over don't you?
>>
>>49670340
In the last couple of threads, it was open season on blaming me for whatever was going. To be honest, I don't particularly mind and if you were one of the people airing grievances I would rather that you just identified yourself, called me an asshole and cleared the air. Most people will agree with you if take the direct approach because I am an asshole.
>>
>>49670514
>I would rather that you just identified yourself,
you want this so that if i wrote anything you can cut it
>>
>>49670514
>>49670340
Speaking as one of the people who definitely could not ever be accused of being part of "Lumey's Defense Force", I can at least attest to this.

He does at least stand up and brawl with the rest of us when disagreements happen, which was often. He doesn't hide behind anyone else.

>>49670541
Lol. Now that's a level of paranoia I've not seen in some time.
>>
>>49670562
>Lol. Now that's a level of paranoia I've not seen in some time.
100% of people who complain about the clique get their content cut

IT'S JUST A COINCIDENCE THOUGH GUYS, ALL PRAISE LUMEY

Do you retards actually think anyone is ever going to read your shitty fanfiction wiki? You all realize you're writing for nobody but yourselves, right?
>>
>>49670562
>He doesn't hide behind anyone else.
I said he gets his lackeys to do his bidding to keep his hands clean. He's not stupid.
>>
>>49670579
>100% of people who complain about the clique get their content cut
Name one person who this happened to.
>>
>>49670562
>Speaking as one of the people who definitely could not ever be accused of being part of "Lumey's Defense Force", I can at least attest to this.
He said while literally defending Lumey
>>
>>49670579
>You all realize you're writing for nobody but yourselves

Yes, of course. You seem to misunderstand the point of fanfic.

>100% of people who complain about the clique get their content cut

No.

>>49670610
If you say so.
>>
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>>49670541
>>49670579
Okay there, buddy.
>>
Why are these threads always drama?
>>
>>49670579
>Do you retards actually think anyone is ever going to read your shitty fanfiction wiki?

Who cares?

You can sling shit all you want, but the only one who looks like a psycho is you. If you're so mad, then leave.
>>
>>49670608
Literally every legion that got cut instead of taken over
>>
>>49670678
Because one guy on the internet is mad.
>>
>>49670678
I have no idea. I mean, I know it's 4chan, but if you don't like something, leave it alone.
>>
>>49670690
The legions taken over too. He's writing for the four most important and influential legions in the project but he doesn't have any power? That's a new level of naivety.
>>
>>49670678
People have literally been complaining about Lumey running things from the shadows since the very beginning.

Maybe, possibly, perhaps, people are complaining about lumey running things from the shadows because... HE IS?
>>
>>49670690
That's wrong. Kleisthenes-anon never had issues with other writers. Rook was a guy I defended at length. Clearly you're just talking out your ass, but I think this has been a useful discussion. We've been reminded that we're all friends and have a broad agreement about what should and shouldn't be part of the project. In that spirit...

>>49670629
I understand that you finally read over the edited down version of the War Scribes page. Aside from the "ship problem" and the as-yet unedited campaign pages, was there anything that you felt should have stayed but didn't? Do you have feelings about the embellishments? I killed off a number of the less prominent Sacred Band guys mainly to make the point that the War Scribes suffered and added Orend so that they could lose their leader without losing one of your guys.
>>
>>49670744
>it's 4chan
>if you don't like something, leave it alone
>>
>>49670776
>We've been reminded that we're all friends and have a broad agreement about what should and shouldn't be part of the project
This is some big brother level shit right here.

IF YOU AREN'T MY FRIEND YOU GET CUT
>>
>>49670800
Actually, he sends Z-Rays through the internet to make you want to leave the project.
>>
>>49670800
Try to be consistent. It's been two years. Clearly everyone currently in the project is my friend. Everyone who left but had their stuff kept is my friend as well. Basically, I'm not friends with LCK and Nathanog, but otherwise I'm a very friendly guy.
>>
>>49670850
This is false.

It's Q-Particles in the water supply, which is why I struggle to influence heavy drinkers.
>>
>>49670885
>Clearly everyone currently in the project is my friend.
>Lumey
>friends with Uriel
are you ok?
>>
>>49670917
You have to remember that I'm running everything. If Uriel wasn't my friend, he'd have been cut. His work hasn't been cut, so obviously he's my friend. Right?
>>
>>49670776
Orend is okay, the only thing I really don't like is the actual picture representing him, it's just not very well drawn at all.

As far as the rest of it, I might wait till the one man crusade goes down for his naptime to post in more detail.
>>
>>49670989
OK. I'll pull the placeholder art for Orend from their page so it's less intrusive.

And really, while it's nice to have bumps that invite replies, at this time of day I think we can just talk about the writing rather than the writers.
>>
>>49670905
Oh shit, that's me.
>>
>>49671386
I wasn't trying to single anyone out. Wouldn't be friendly.
>>
>>49670800
Psht, that's some BS.

I and Lumierre happen to despise eachother.

He hates the fact I am a lazy drunk who gets others to write his pages.
I hate the fact he makes me do work.

Come on, we both know it's true.
>>
>>49671431
Literally thinking about cutting your pages right now.
>>
>>49671464
I am the creative backbone of this project.

You don't have the balls to do it.
>>
>>49671474
I've always thought of you as the elbow. And I'll cut where I want.
>>
Ugh, got busy yesterday, what did I miss?
>>
>>49671503
There was some theological discussion, chatting up a few different ideas, and the Knight of the Foil Hat showed up again.
>>
>>49671503
Not heaps, but I did want to have a word.

This is Lumey, I caught up with the last few threads and it looks like I owe you an apology, though I'm not 100% clear on how I slighted you. It looked a bit like you hold me responsible for the Storm Bringers being taken away from you (and eventually removed from the Legion roster). Am I on the right track here?
>>
>>49670690
>>49670766
Because boy howdy, people love to see near blank pages on a wiki.

See here's the thing.
We have writers on "staff" however, Lumierre is the most efficient, I take no blow to my ego in saying such.

If he didn't take them, I would have taken them and left them half-filled.
But at least they would be as WaCkY and ZaNeY as those Imperium Assunder legions.

>>49671496
Cut them, I cut you.
>>
>>49671543
I'm not sure how you did either, but you know how hard old grudges die. I think it was more I didn't like that you were being an ass to me so I became an ass right back and it spiraled.

Having cooled off from the other day, I am willing to try starting anew.

The Bringers went away after I stepped away so I shouldnt really hold that against anyone, I suppose I abandoned them.

>>49671535
Ok
>>
>>49671553
>Because boy howdy, people love to see near blank pages on a wiki.
The point was about power. If no-one else stepped up, he still got the power, whether he sought it or not. All creative decisions for the key figures of the project go through him and him alone.
>>
>>49671611
>power
>muh Illumeynati

I distinctly remember all the decisions revolving around the EZ going through me.
Which is actually a size-able part of the lore.

Any time I ran something by Lumierre;
loathed as I was to do so.
It was for quality checking, prose, making sure it was grounded.

Lumey is the 'gravity' of the project, he pretty much makes sure I [and others] don't get away with shit.

Astartes Robo-Centaurs

>Illumeynati

Hah!
>>
>>49671598
>The Bringers went away after I stepped away so I shouldnt really hold that against anyone, I suppose I abandoned them.
I wouldn't go that far. To be honest, I went through the records because I couldn't remember what had happened. Turns out the Storm Bringers got shunted around while I was on hiatus, then Onyx agreed to his KoJ getting cut because there were too many Knights on the roster. I was around for that second part of the process but I didn't really do my due diligence and check whether there were more interests at stake than just Onyx's. At any rate, you didn't abandon them to nearly the same extent as other people and they were handed off to someone else with unseemly haste, and I'm very sorry that I let that happen.

On a more productive note, Josman had a very good idea for adjusting the tack of the Black Augurs without radically changing them. I gave it a gloss upthread, at >>49666442, and as you've thought a fair bit about that Legion it would be good to get your eyes on the idea.
>>
>>49671697
>four most important legions written by him
>Zealots
>written by Lumey
you aren't paying attention, are you?
>>
>>49671722
Its fine, the Storm Bringers were a bigger bite than I could really afford to take at the time. And I really think it was just some head butting and general conflict from other people and you that continued to sour my opinion.

I think giving him that 'jealous' motivation would help the Augurs immensely. I do agree with the one response that they seem to just be Skaven and I still think they'd be better "Cartoon Villains" if they went the Vampire Counts route. Which Void being obsessed with his mortality would help with.
>>
>>49671789
>Zealots
>Not the most important legion.

Tit for tat my tin foil friend.
>>
Wow. Drama tastic.

Anything Affecting the VII, because that's the only dog I have in this fight.
>>
>>49671885
You've shown the few anons watching these threads the pointless, toxic cult that they would be getting into if they joined you. Thanks for playing though.
>>
>>49672037
Basically we're just waiting on you to front up with some more copy. At the moment, you're in a much better position to say, "the 7th would mean this to those guys" than anyone else.
>>
>>49666023
>Is the Rosskan Strelky history-NO IT'S NOT.
>Silver Cataphract history? Nope.
>Rosskar history? Nothing on the Hektor Heresy.
>Nevermind, I'll just wing it until I get oop nort.

Uuhm, can you elaborate what you mean? I'm free finally to write stuff.
>>
>>49672109
This alt history was pointless from the beginning. It's just something to kill time.

You have nothing better to do than preach to an empty room, do you? No one cares if you're butthurt.

>toxic

4chan is toxicity incarnate. You are complaining about smelling like urine while swimming in an ocean of piss.

Have a nice life.
>>
>>49671885
As I'm in a good mood, I've given the Sixteenth just a trim - as a warning. Incur my wrath again and I'll take more.
>>
>>49672222
Is this sarcasm or are you really the fascist dictator cult master you're being made out as?
>>
>>49672109
You sound mad tin-foil man.

Art thou mad?

>>49672222
Yes Lumierre-sama-senpai-sensei-kuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun
>>
>>49672279
I edited the first couple of sections. The writing was a bit loose and redundant in some places and it's been tightened up. If Snek (or anyone else) thinks I've gone too far, the wiki preserves the prior copy. You can compare versions here:

https://1d4chan.org/index.php?title=Eternal_Zealots&type=revision&diff=366307&oldid=365729
>>
>>49672332
I mean the
>Incur my wrath again and I'll take more.
Part. Sarcasm or...

You don't exactly have a lot of good press
>>
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>>49672037
Hey Arbites, I'd like to talk with you.

Would you like instead of using Crimson Eagles use the Storm Bringers as the name for the VIIth?

I personally like Storm Bringers more, they have a good color scheme(Shown here and before), and it might make Bloodseer a bit happier.
>>
>>49672370
I wouldn't call it sarcasm. I do intend to run the rule over the rest of the article and give it the same treatment, because there's more work to be done. But as far as running the show? Let's take it back to means, motive, and opportunity.

I can't control the project. The most I can do is argue persuasively for a given course of action, or as an absolute last resort say that it's X or me.
I don't want to control the project. The amount of writing responsibility I've fallen into is quite unwelcome but people (especially Alexandri-anon and "Lore") bitched at me for working only on the Void Angels and their allies. If I can hand the War Scribes back to Arelex with their page at a manageable length, I'll be happy. I have no idea how to reduce the rest of my obligations.
I don't really have the opportunity to control the project, particularly not of late. My health has been poor this year and I really don't have the energy for writing that I did earlier on in the Hektor Heresy. If you want proof of that, take a look at my User Contributions on 1d4chan or track back the last few days of threads here.
>>
>>49672381
Hmmm, while I do have some emotional attachment to the name if I'm out voted I'll change it. There was going to be a lroe reason behind it and everything

As for the color scheme I am feeling very steadfast on the utilitarian green with Paratrooper maroon and CavScout yellah.

Perhaps that can be the paint scheme of the Pre Primarch Liberators?
>>
>>49672612
Eh, nevermind it. It was just a suggestion but you seem to be tied and passionate about what you have there. Use that as fuel. We'll use the Storm Bringers as a Knights of Justice or Cataphracts successor on their own. Stick with what you have, work it well. I look forward to seeing the Crimson Eagles come into their own.
>>
>>49672913
>>49672381
Im fine with the Storm Bringers just being a successor chapter.

So I had a thought inspired by Lumey's idea of Voidwatcher's flaw being mortality. We could roll that into a geneseed flaw much like the Fleshchange the Thousand Sons were going through.

Perhaps not all who recieved the geneseed had the functional immortality that Space Marines get? Some age faster, by the time they meet Voidwatcher a number have died of old age. Maybe its tied into their psychic prowess?

They are the Solar Warriors after all, bright and intense, a torch lighting the Imperium's way and you know what they say about the light that burns twice as bright.

So the Decimation, not just a gambit to increase the power of his sons, but an attempt to save them and foremost as he is a selfish bastard, a test run on a plan to save himself.

Its also the Legions first step on the road to damnation, saved sure, but tempted with more power now because of this first taste. And they want more.
>>
>>49653784
>>>Primarch of the VII Legion
>>Caligor Kincaid

>Kincaid crashed into the wheat fields of Taletar, one of the greatest countries of the war torn planet of Haravi. His impact set the entire crop ablaze, and from the ashes of the fields the humble farmers found their adopted son. First thought of as a curse the boy soon proved himself as a blessing, growing faster than any of their other children, who resented the boy for his burning of their entire crop and his seemingly miraculous growth. Caligor at the age of ten re tilled and seeded his parents crops in two nights, saving the declining clan who had been relying on their quickly depleting grain stores. Caligore quickly became a local legend, tilling fields single handedly and beating back gangs with his brothers, who after some time accepted him as a friend and brother.

>Once the Primarch reached his eighteenth year it was clear his sleepy farm town would never be big enough for him, outclassing everyone of his school mates in sports and the liberal arts, his blunt and cocky nature hiding a shrewd and passionate orator that believed deeply in the fundaments of his nation, that of Democracy, freedom, and liberty for all. He did what any proud Taletarian would do in such times of conflict and enlisted in the Taletarian Army along side his brothers and eldest sister. Here in the crucible of military training the humble farming Kincaids found their strength and teamwork honed into the skills of talented soldiers. Caligore himself was noted almost immediately upon his induction to the force for his freakish physique and almost supernatural affinity for combat. After his initial training he was taken from his siblings and introduced to the Taletarian Elite Commandos. Here the Primarch was to be tested to his limits, but there he only found excitement and greater brotherhood. Here he learned the secrets of airborne and recon warfare, hitting the enemy where it hurts the hardest.
>>
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Inferox_"The_Burned_King"

Getting feedback on this right away would be great.
>>
>>49673963
>Update
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Sons_of_Fire

I honestly need some help fixing up their fucking organization.

It's just a mess and my brain is too full of fuck.
>>
>>49673082
>So the Decimation, not just a gambit to increase the power of his sons, but an attempt to save them and foremost as he is a selfish bastard, a test run on a plan to save himself.
>Its also the Legions first step on the road to damnation, saved sure, but tempted with more power now because of this first taste. And they want more.

I very much like this.

>>49672612
I like Storm Bringers myself. You could make the Crimson Eagles a sub-unit within or a successor chapter.
>>
>>49674337
They're Traitors, Vetro.

And I don't think it's fair to tell him what his Legion should look like and be called :v
>>
>>49674374
Oh. Derp. Whoops.
>>
>>49673963
I enjoyed reading it but I don't think I have much in the way of useful feed back for you.
>>
>>49674410
It's all cool in the hood.
>>
>>49673963
I am doing HW, so can't read right now, just want to give you props for using a pic from Requiem.
>>
>>49673959
>After months of highly rigorous training and recognition for his skill in battle skills and leadership, Caligore was finally deemed ready to go down range and meet the enemy. The greatest enemy to the safety of Taletar in this age of World War was the ever expanding nation of Bravig. Driven by religious imperative, powered by ancient technology, and supported by vassal states, Bravig was an unstoppable juggernaut across Haravian hemisphere, Telatar only protected by political neutrality. But their time of safety would come to an end as they conquered the nation of Fvalen, a steadfast ally of Taletar and a source of major trade. It was for this reason that the Primarch found himself on a stealth jet to the Fvalish mountains on a mission to clear out Bravigian bunkers on the mountain side. In the weeks Caligore's Commandos spent in those mountains over a hundred enemy soldiers died on those slopes, and the brash and bold idealist farmer became a deadly soldier.

>But the fledgling Primarch wouldn't be so shaken by violence, his genetic calling. Instead his escapades across Fvalen as Captain Kincaid only served to embolden him, wearing his kills and skills as a badge of honour. If one were to hear about him from his soldiers, he was a god damned war hero. To hear about the famed Caligore Commandos from any other unit that has worked with him, he was a braggart and a maniac wiping his soldiers up like a wild conductor over an orchestra of grinning madmen. No matter who you talked to however, it could be agreed that he at the very least a good leader. He always measured a soldier by their capability and motivation, both in equal measure, and never tasked a soldier with a task he himself wouldn't do (a somewhat hilarious standard considering that he was the largest, and possibly the most deadly, individual on the planet), and as insufferable as less high speed soldiers found his bravado, it was nothing short of infectious.
>>
>>49666442
>>49671722
>This is a Great idea, because in one fell swoop it solves the motivation question.

Ahah! Yes, my plan all along!... It wasn't just purely a way to make him less ridiculously overpowered when you start rolling on biomancy! Really!
>>
>>49675211
>The Taletarian Army burned through Fvalen, liberating the country in a short three months and recouping the Fvalish military, and forming and allied coalition with the remaining free nations of Haravi to turn the tides against the Bravigian invasion. The largest factor in the success of the campaign was the tactical ineptitude of the enemy. For all their arcane technology and ancient, powerful machinery the Bravigian military preferring to operate from trenches and bunkers, or using extremely outdated tactics such as line firing. However the secret behind their vast empire of slave nations was their vast nuclear arsenal, an ancient stockpile of doomsday weapons left from the Dark Age of Technology. The threat of nuclear annihilation was usually more than enough to bring any nation they wished to heel. Taletar, however, was not known for its cowardice in the face of danger. Unfortunately their burgeoning campaign had angered the nuclear powerhouse, and the Bravigian establishment threatened the world with nuclear decimation should every nation on Haravi not lay down their arms.

>Their hands forced, the coalition entered a cease fire to negotiate the terms of surrender. However, in a desperate move to escape the clutches of tyranny, the Taletarian High Command concocted a bold plan inspired from recent intelligence. Commando units from across the coalition would infiltrate Bravig, and utilizing the fresh intelligence intercepted from the enemy, seize the nuclear launch sites, and hold the world hostage until Bravig and their "allies" surrendered unconditionally. This risky plan was to headed by none other than Colonel Caligor "Mad Cal" Kincaid himself.
>>
>>49673959
>>49675211
>>49675959

That's all I'm going to write for tonight. It's not my best work by any metric, but it's serviceable.

What do yall think?
>>
>>49673959
>and beating back gangs with his brothers
I read 'black gangs' and thought yup this is an american primarch alright.

>>49675211
>>49675959
>space ww2
>infiltration nukes
I love it
>>
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>>49676064
>I read 'black gangs' and thought yup this is an american primarch alright.
>>
>>49673959
What kind of fucking commie name is Caligor?
>>
>>49675980
It looks like a good start. I think you're right to get the basic tale down now and worry about polishing it later.
>>
>>49676206
Well, it seems to be corruption of Kilgore which derives from gaelic, from coille 'wood' + gobhar, gabhar 'goat'.
>>
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>>49666442
Voidwatcher here, I can definitely get behind this. Will post more stuff later when I'm less busy.

I still think Voidy returning from the Warp fused with his warscythe as a half-necrodermis lich is a dope ass idea.
>>
>>49676573
Great!

He could come back as a host of otherworldly creatures and pull the Dr. Doom/Doombot routine.
>>
>>49666442
>empty-headed Brennus

Brennus is still the Conan to The Voidwatcher's Thoth-Amon. Even if we don't have dedicated foes for our Primarchs. I need to get off my worthless ass and write something for the two of them, the one and only time their Legions fought together before Ostium.

>>49676573
>Voidy becoming a metallic lich

This is all kinds of cool.
>>
>>49676573
Eh... Does it have to be necron stuff?
>>
>>49676774
Obviously not. I wasn't even really being serious about it when I first pitched it all those years ago. It just made sense in my head, putting two and two together.

Overall, I think it kinda defeats the spooky end point of his character. That is, his slowly absorbing the souls of the Augurs while he's stuck in the warp rather than all of them at once.

>The Black Renegade, for you we wait
>Your guidance will exalt the soul to stand alone
>The cries of division are a chorus to your ears
>And the curses of your kin are but badges of honor
>>
>>49676819
I was planning on machines twisted by the warp being one of the challenges faced by the IA as they pushed north through Segmentum Pacificus. Unholy fusion of machine and flesh is cash as fuck.
>>
>>49673963
Where do the people outside Inferox's geothermal plant live? If there are raids the raiders have to come from somewhere. I think it might work better if there were multiple geothermal plants or other settlements of some kind. I would suggest having a group of city states, it would enhance the Mesopotamian theme that's an undercurrent in the Sons.
>>
>>49677178
Chances are it's not the only geothermal plant or the only installation that has survived. Not to mention there should be extensive cave systems.
>>
>>49677206
The page mentions it's the only settlement left. More geothermal planets (or cave systems, which I didn't even consider) are definitely the best options. Possibly a Max Max-esque situation, where different settlements ("city-states') do different things and ally with each other.
>>
>>49677178
>>49677206
The plant is gigantic. The other tribes live in the other areas, the Xerlethites live in the main reactor area.
>>
>>49677263
It could be the only *functional* settlement left.

There's gonna be ruins.
>>
>>49677178
The raiders come from space. SPAAACE.

>>49677265
Fine, you could do that too.
>>
>>49677265
>>49677271
>>49677273
So, we're talking a miles wide industrial super complex. Ok, I can get behind that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LYB7iLZNWE
>>
>>49677271
I took a quick archive dive and found some of the Vetrovnak/Ullanor pieces you wrote to salvage for the wiki. That much I expected to find and I've added them to vaguely appropriate pages while experimenting with sidebar technology.

But I was really struck by your little note on "Astrarium". It's a great thought and I'll be sure to use the terminology!
>>
Hey everyone, just wanted to pop up and throw in a suggestion for the sake of transparency to new people. I've posted up in the #HektorHeresy channel at irc.thisisnotatrueending.com, anyone who wants to chat on the subject of the project in a less formal manner can get on here. I'm sure not much work and a lot of bullshitting will get done in here, but it's more accessible than skype. Whoever makes the next thread, I ask you to please put the address in the OP.

To do this, download an irc (internet relay chat) client. If you're on firefox, there's an add-on call chatzilla you can download easily. Once you're there.

1 Click join channel.
2 Put "irc.thisisnotatrueending.com" into the server section
3. Put "#hektorheresy" into the channel section, and join.


I'm generally going to be slowly be reorganizing and expanding on the Life Bringers and auditing and polishing up the xenos sections. Also taking on any suggestions, comments, criticisms, or requests for any of these.
>>
>>49678772
On this note, there's several for Chrome as well, I'd recommend Byrd IRC client.
>>
>>49678772
This is a very good idea.
>>
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Hey should I cut the Crimson Reign from the Markian Pact?
>>
>>49680466
I think Vernier's terror makes sense as a last blow to the pact, so in my view it doesn't need to go. Do you have your own doubts about the event?
>>
>>49680537
I'm mixed on whether I want the Pact to continue into M41 and if I want it to sputter out before it even reaches the End Times.
>>
>>49680651
That's a difficult one. I do think that sputtering out is fairly novel end for this kind of thing. If it was me, I'd leave the conclusion on the books until there were events afterwards that I wanted to involve the pact in, and then either retcon the Crimson Reign forward in time, remove it, or have someone "get the band back together" in time for the Pact to be active in the right period. It's not at all implausible for a political entity to go extinct for a few centuries and then come back in a somewhat different form.
>>
One thought has occurred to me while going over the archives.

If we look at the Vetrovnak seriously, they're fine fighting Marines and Guard and whatnot, but their perfect foe is the Sisters of Battle. Do not question this, it is a self-evident truth. Unfortunately, they arrive thousands of years too early to clash with the SoB if they're forming on the OU timetable.

Now, a less enlightened soul might suggest holding back the Vetrovnak. But there is No Fun In That. So my suggestion is to have Space Buffy (not really, but sort of) found/popularise a Sisters-like organisation during the first major Vetrovnak incursion. They can still end up loosely under the umbrella of the Ministorum because they're cultic types and that's Heresy without the stamp of the Emperor. As a bonus, we get to appease the folks who want the AU religion to feel different.

I await your purges.
>>
>>49650554
I know most people left because of Lumey, I think it was Golgothos that described him as "Too useful to kick out, but too much of an abusive, toxic cunt to tolerate."
>>
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>>49681083
>Space Buffy
You could've just NOT mentioned Buffy?

I'm... Leaning towards the idea a little. Maybe it's not a during the Heresy thing, like just a bit after,

Maybe they begin as a regiment of elite IG that experience a miracle during an incursion against the Vetrovnak., like female Knights of the Blazing Sun.

Question: What is the term "Vetrovnak" derived from?
>>
>>49676573
>Regular Lich Primarch
>Not Primarch Nagash
>>
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>>49681426
>Making him Primarch Nagash
No.
>>
>>49681083
>Do not question this, it is a self-evident truth.

What did he mean by this?
>>
>>49681406
Did you reply to the wrong person? What does that have to do with anything he said?
>>
>>49681458
>Guy posts about people leaving due to Nathanog's abuse
>Other guy posts about people leaving because of Lumey's abuse.

How is this not related?
>>
>>49681442
It's a sadomasochistic relation between the SoB and the Vetrovnak. All women desired having their necks filled with holes.
>>
>>49681415
Why would I not mention Buffy?

My feeling is that if it's going to be a big deal then we should take the opportunity to present the Emperor as having Great Foresight and Immense Wisdom. So rather than throwing the Sisters together by accident, have his golden-shineyness personally pacify their homeworld, give a rather generous pass to a particular native tradition and make sure that Malcador passes on the relevant info to his Persons of Inquisitive Nature.
>>
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>>49681551
>My feeling is that if it's going to be a big deal then we should take the opportunity to present the Emperor as having Great Foresight and Immense Wisdom. So rather than throwing the Sisters together by accident, have his golden-shineyness personally pacify their homeworld, give a rather generous pass to a particular native tradition and make sure that Malcador passes on the relevant info to his Persons of Inquisitive Nature.
You mean the atheist does this? Deliberately starts a religious order?

>>49681551
>Why would I not mention Buffy?
Buffy is gay.
>>
>>49681499
Really, I had in mind two points. Firstly, Vetrovnak superscience against the Sisters' blind faith. Secondly, Vampires vs. Nuns.

Oh, and Vetrovnak is probably Croatian but I didn't write the stuff.

>>49681577
>You mean the atheist does this? Deliberately starts a religious order?
It worked for the Buddha.
>>
>>49681606
>It worked for the Buddha.
It didn't work at all for the Buddha. See: China.
>>
>>49681643
How did China mess up the Buddha's plans?
>>
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>>49681426
Oh yes. Oh yes indeed.
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>>49681671
Firstly, Buddha had no plan. He was Buddha. Buddha do not plan.

Secondly, see pic. This is not at all what Buddha had in mind. This is the opposite of Nirvana.

Also, India went back to Hinduism, Japan is some bastard mix of Shinto and Buddhism, North Korea worships their dictator, and South Korea spends billions on beauty products.
>>
>>49681923
I think that first point undermines your whole argument.

But rather than try shoring it up, maybe you could go back to where I said, "gives a rather generous pass to a particular native tradition" and wonder how you got "starts a religious order" from that.
>>
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>>49682023
"In my infinite wisdom I am going to tip my wreath to this particular group of highly impressionable primitive people who probably look at me like I'm a god and I fully expect they're not going to getting even a little religious over it."
-The Emperor
>>
>>49682103
You seem very angry about this idea, so I'll give it up and think about an alternative.
>>
>>49682133
I'm not really angry. I'm just not following how Antitheist Emperor ->Sisters of Battle follows without putting "the Emperor's too dead to stop it" between the two.

Pictured, not my level of anger. You may be angry (Not you you, the demonstrative hypothetical you) but you'll never be Cirno tied to a stick with a gun angry.
>>
>>49681923
South Korea worships Starcraft.

>>49682023
I think this is a case of needing to better define one's terms. Perhaps have a semi feral planet that uses women as warriors for some reason which I think needs to be defined, and...

The logic on this train of thought is breaking down quickly.
>>
>>49676819
So the Augurs are now Dark Eldar? They are soul Vampires to save themselves from their Primarch?
>>
>>49682307
Not that that is bad, gives them extra motivation to be cruel post Heresy. But we're still no where with Pre-Heresy other than they were good guys that became badguys after a taste of extreme power
>>
>>49682307
No no, they don't even realize what's happening to theirs souls. The Voidwatcher was stopped before he could harvest the whole legion at once, but a part of everyone that went through the decimation ends up trickling back to him in the warp. Rather than becoming a god in an instant, he's been slowly amassing power.

Of course, that's just a possibility. This was never set in stone.

Speaking of possibilities, is Blood one of the founders of the Grey Knights? Given his choice in weapons and armor.
>>
>>49682747
Their souls being drained would be something they would probably pick up on. I like the idea of them being drained, i just think they should be DE like if thats the case, though not knowing its Void doing it. Could lead to interesting alliances or more reasons to hunt the eldar.

Blood could be one of the founding masters of the Grey Knights, which would mean during the Heresy he was either working in secret from withthe Legion and left afterwards or he defected early on
>>
>>49681426
Holy shit yes YES
>>
>>49682973
I was thinking that during his mission to take down Void he enlists the help of a small squad of both loyalist and traitor marines. Maybe a blank or a farseer as well. He ends up pitching some of his knowledge/geneseed into the Grey Knights project, but has to remain "loyal" to the Black Augurs. Partly to make sure they never accidently summon Voidy, and partly because he was doing it for his legion all along.
>>
>>49683030
So they ensure that Void succeeded to a degree so he's bound to the laws of the warp and then banished him? Locking him to X?

Im not sure about him remaining with the Augurs at that point, but it could go with the original idea of him growing to detest "his" Legion.

He helps the "Knight-Errant" force defeat Void, then goes with them to create the hard counter force to the Augurs, who's Paladins would be more akin to the Solar Warriors, "his" Legion.
>>
>>49682973
These names are hilariously, disgustingly, edgy

The Augurs as a whole come off as a DeviantArt OC
>>
>>49683518
I was just working with what i had when the project started. I would like to change the names at somepoint because they are painfully edgy.
>>
>>49675980
So I'm reading all this, and I'm not sure what to make of Caligore. Is he supposed to be a mindful orator like Lograr or Guilliman? A stoic soldier like Dorn? Or is he a crazy Axe murderer like Angron or Curze?

Then there's the whole sneaky commando part, which we already have our bases covered with, and then you said that his legion is going to be Airborne Cavalry? We have thoses bases covered as well, no?
>>
>>49683944
AirCav is not presently covered.
>>
>>49684060
Yes but we have Cav legions. And Airborne is nothing special in a world where everyone gets to where they need to go via Drop Pod.
>>
>>49684110
>>49684110
Except there are canon Legions that specialize in airdrops liek you know, the Blood Angels and the Decapitation Strikes of the Raven Guard.Cavalry is different from Air Cav and they still have that Airborne focus. Besides near everyone else in in agreement on this Legion being allowed.

Also of we are gonna discount their specialization on air drops because everyone cam do it, youre discounting every other specialization because every other legiom cam do those too
>>
I've been listening to too much Black Angels, because I've realized the lack of psychedelia in this AU.

To-do list:

>Chromesthesia Psychotropes
Literally IG/IA on drugs.

>Solidus Chromehounds
>Gren (Working title) Bloody-Eyes
>XXX Windups (Working title)
>Goda
>Markia
>Chaos IA
>Dark Mechanicum
>Chaos daemons
>Anorexia
>>
idk why but i find these threads extremely hard to follow/hop into. The conversations are often so long it takes ages to track it back to the beginning.

I'm still working on the Craftworld Kaelor writefaggotry.

If anyone feels like asking me Entombed prompts, or wants to point out areas of work they need on the wiki, that would be nice. Otherwise I'm trying (and failing) to read the thread.

Reading the Inferox page is still on my to-do list but I'm a busy man.
>>
Bump
>>
>>49682160

Did someone forget about the Sisters of Silence?
>>
>>49684278

Things have got a bit crazy with the return of the sinister Liege and all that entails. Besides, you have the Imperium Asunder to keep on track.
>>
>>49686170
More like not know how/if to change them
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>>49684246
But are they really a worthy replacement for the Crimson Teeth?
>>
>>49686170
What about them?
>>
>>49686184
I find it funny that people accuse Lumey of dictatorship for taking over 3 abandoned legions in this project when I literally made 3 legions in Imperium Asunder's first thread and nobody seems to care.
>>
>>49686193
>>49686170
Dude I'm surprised we're not just doing our own setting. This is quickly becoming warhammer with the serial numbers filed off as opposed to a alternative history where events played out differently
>>
>>49686199
Yes.
>>
>>49686203

The Emperor had his own all-female corps which went around with him. As Nulls, wouldn't they be the perfect weapon against the Vetrovnak (No matter how powerful they are, the null field would at least briefly paralyze them and make them easier targets) and they would be deployed in force against the incursion, possibly being so bled out by it that the Sisters are effectively disbanded?

That gives us the females fighting the Vetrovnak and covers the fact that the Sisters aren't founded yet (If indeed they will ever be founded).
>>
>>49686223
It's just one angry guy who refuses to let go from gnawing a bone long since stripped of all meat.

>>49686227
"Becoming"?

You misunderstand, it was always thus. No one ever intended for this to be a wildly different 40k, merely a different retelling with difference faces and flavors.
>>
>>49686267
Oh. That's okay then.
>>
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So I'm reading sporadically and overall the new america-inspired legion sounds cool Air-cav is a good specialization, it actually came up as one of the legions in IA and I was like "huh wow we never thought of that in Hektor Heresy that seems like a really obvious one too." So overall I'm for it.

I have a question though: Where does the chaos part come in? They seem kinda noblebright so far. When/how/why do they fall from grace, and what do they look like afterward?
>>
>>49686227

I'm inclined to agree that things need to be different from the canon, though there is debate as to how different. Arguing over the Imperial Faith and how close or far it resembles the canon Ecclesiarchy is simply one of many such debates.

If you want different, again the bastard son project has left 40k far behind with their 'past the end times' setting.
>>
>>49686227
Really, that's Imperium Asunder's job at the moment. If you're seeking a different setting, I suggest you divert your creative efforts there, perhaps.
>>
Glancing over the KoJ page, man there was a lot there i never got around to removing or was added later, like that stupid super jump pack and them beig Top Gun Marines.
>>
>>49686338
Too much primarchs. Not enough Guard.
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>>49686395

I preferred it when they were called Storm Bringers, really. KoJ is kind of a stupid name.
>>
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>>49686409

And very few Knights. IA aren't as invested in Knights as here.

I really do want more for House Goda and Walkur.
>>
>>49686468
KoJ came first. And part of why I feel i lost interest in keeping them going was I had the stipulation of keeping as much of the KoJ as possible in there.
>>
>>49686516

That should never be a requisite. When taking over a Legion, preserve only what you need and discard the rest.
>>
>>49686556
At the time it was something that had been agreed upon.
>>
>>49686556
I'd hate to see what's left of any Legion that went through that process more than once.
>>
>>49686556
>>49686573
Yeah that's a pretty dumb philosophy. Preserve everything you can and add only what is still needed, IMO.
>>
>>49686496
You can do something with Walkur if you want. They're just female Wagner knights.
>>
>>49686573

The Gorgers went through it at least twice when they becamde the Bloodbound and then Crimson Teeth.
>>
>>49686604
And both times they became little more than confused gibberish, and remain so to the present day.
>>
>>49686581
The KoJ were a massive mess so a reser would have been needed, but since they were tied into the back storoes of other Legions my hands on certain things were tied.

Man the fact that they are show as having most of their guys as an Air Force bothers me.
>>
Also can someone who's smarter than me at wiki-craft transfer the Entombed: Discussion stuff to add to/replace appropriate places on the Entombed page?
>>
>>49686634

They should be a bit like the airmobile forces of the Vietnam War. They don't take or hold ground, they strike and fade, hitting the enemy and then withdrawing, using their air mobility to avoid enemy troop concentrations and strike at their flanks and rear areas.
>>
>>49686676
Thats what i wanted to do if i could do my own thing. Now thats what the Eagles are gonna do.
>>
>>49686306
Hi.

So here's an summarized timeline of events

>Caligore seizes the nukes, holds the world hostage. Bravig actually let that piece of intel slip, giving them an excuse to turn the peace negotiations into a shooting gallery, his brother, a high ranking general now, is blown up.
>Caligore learns of the masacre and the absolute madman nukes the ever loving shit out of the Bravigian capitol.
>OH SHIT NIGGER the Emperor arrives with the VII recon legion, the Liberators, and demands a cease fire before Kincaid razes the whole hemisphere in nuclear fire.
>The Emperor meets Kincaid in Bravig were he lures him and his men out of the nuclear stockpile and basically gives him the "Yer a Primarch 'Arry." Speach.
>Claigore goes "Yeah fuck that, were's the Bravigian military command." Emperor gives them to him in return for him taking up his legion and joining the great crusade.
>Caligore decapitates one of them with a backhand then beats the others to death with his body.

>Caligore takes his legion and as many of the Coalition as possible, inducting them into the Imperial Army, the Haravi Hellfighters.
>Caligore softens up a little, as his legion resonates a lot with the hopeful ideals of his youth, those of truth, (relative) freedom, and the American way.

>Then the remainders of Bravig take what Archeotech and doomsday weapons weren't stolen or confiscated by the Imperium, and nuke Taletar into oblivion.

>Caligor calmy takes a contingent of Imperial Army forces from Taletar and their closest allies, and a few thousand marines and returns to his planet. Bravig, their vassal nations, and nations that didn't even offer resistance when they invaded during the Great War were annihilated. Something breaks in Caligore and he bathes in the carnage, switching back into gung ho super soldier mode but turns the dials all the way to 12. Caligore kills their men, burns their women, salts their children, eats their houses and rapes their fields.
>>
>>49686703

They'd be faster attackers than even the Scale Bearers, squadrons of Storm Eagles, Thunderhawks and even Stormbirds screaming out of clear skies, hammering a suprised enemy with torrents of fire before disgorging squads of crack Space marines into their guts for the killing blow. You never see them coming, but they bring death of wings of fire and steel.

Their weakness should be the fact that they do not take or hold ground. Though they kill, and kill very well, they leave the field in possession of the enemy. They hate Wars of Position the same way the Tau do. What they fight are wars of attrition. Kill enough of the enemy, and they will surrender.
>>
>>49686738
So he's sort of just an evil heartless bastard who occasionally does his evil heartless bastardy for the forces of good? I can dig that.

Sound like he'd be Purturabo-tier chaos dude, that is to say, he couldn't give a flying fuck about gods, this is just a secular civil war to him.
>>
>>49686778
That would have been ideal, one of their special units would have essentially been the Son of Horus Reaver Squads.
>>
>>49686738
>Now he MAY have been justified, since the dudes that did the initial revenge nuking MAY (were) have been religious zealots, which is Haram in the Imperial Truth and with the Emperor (Peace be upon him).

Now here's were things get dicy for me. I'm not sure where to go from here. I know I want him to be brought in like Magnus was supposed to, but who would have been doing the arresting? Would they have been friends and Caligore would have come along quietly or would there have been a fight?

After that it's pretty simple

>Legion goes full Generation Kill (if it was about the 82nd) and Loves The Smell of Napalm in the Morning. Militarized turbo violence is ratcheted up to concerning degrees. Heresy comes up and Caligore already has some resentment against the Emperor for not letting him finish the fucking job on Haravi and it only takes a little pushing and an introduction to our lord and Savior Khorne to get the gears moving.

>The legion, renamed the Crimson Eagles after Taletar burns to the ground (the flag was a red eagle set within a white sun in a blue background), splits between loyalists and heretics. Loyalists go back to being the Liberators
>>
>>49686849
>but who would have been doing the arresting?
Have you guys had any discussion about who plays Russ' role as the Emperor's executioner?

Cause if not, it's obviously Golgothos if you ask me.
>>
>>49686819
Nononono, he's not heartless at all. He's very passionate, that's part of his problem. When he was younger it was for democracy and muh freedums, when he saw the elephant it was for battle and seeing the bad guys get torn to shreds. He's like...LG before the army CG but fighting for a LG cause that he believes in then after he burns his world to the ground he's CN with CE/NE leanings
>>
>>49686880
I could see Caligore playing such a role as an attack dog, but he doesn't have luch love for the Emperor or the Imperium
>>
>>49686880

I thought it was supposed to be Uriel. Though he's never struck me as either ruthless enough or willing enough to sacrifice half his Legion to do so. And his legion doesn't strike me as effective Marine killers either.

Really, the Lost legions idea should be cut. It's pointless to stick to it here.
>>
>>49686880
>>49686928
I mean, it has to be Lumey, since he's responsible for everything, yeah? Who else if not him? :P
>>
>>49686928
>Really, the Lost legions idea should be cut. It's pointless to stick to it here.
We tried to keep the idea around in IA while writing lost the legions instead of leaving them blank, and having a handful of each survive. It maybe came off a little force but I think it worked out.

Aside from actually culling legions, though, Russ had a very important role to fill in simply being the one the Emperor would send when one of the other legions was close to the edge of heresy. When the Warhounds take on the butcher's nails and become the World Eaters, Russ is sent/sends himself (it's not very clear but I lean toward self-directed) to fuck up Angron for forcing his legion to pull that kinda bullshit.
>>
>>49686970

Ironically it's Lumey and the Void Angels that are responsible for the destruction of Lazarus which sends Aubrey running to Chaos and starts the whole process of heresy.

Before them it was the Knights of Justice who censured the Zealots.
>>
>>49686972

You've got the full 20, though there's not a 10-10 split but more an uneven split, with less Chaos Legions and more renegade ones. Chaos is actually considerably outnumbered Legion-wise in IA.
>>
>>49687013
Warp Raiders and Iron Hearts are our two lost legion equivalents, except our Leman Russ fucked up and didn't finish the job. There's about 10k warp raiders left and 30k Iron Hearts.

Rubinek and The Iron Hearts are actually a direct reference to one of the lost legions. There's a typo in one of the anthologies that says "Primarch Rubinek of the Iron Hearts" instead of chapter master and people have fan-theoried for a long time that Rubinek is the 11th primarch who was purged for tech heresy.

If me mentioning IA too much bothers anybody, by the way, I try to only bring it up as a frame of reference to help with discussion.
>>
>>49686668
So just a copy-paste, then?
>>
>>49687193
it's more about tracking what on one page is supposed to be a replacement for what on the other page. I'm not very good at that sort of thing.
>>
>>49687222
But, you have them both under the same headings. I mean, if you want someone to do I'd be more than willing to.
>>
>>49687260
I know it's dumb but, I dunno, wikis are intimidating.
>>
>>49687289
Well, I'm going to do it then. Look it over in about 15 minutes or so to see if it looks the way you want it to.
>>
>>49681083
>If we look at the Vetrovnak seriously, they're fine fighting Marines and Guard and whatnot, but their perfect foe is the Sisters of Battle. Do not question this, it is a self-evident truth. Unfortunately, they arrive thousands of years too early to clash with the SoB if they're forming on the OU timetable.

Hahahaha I love it. The sisters would be extremely unsettling to them what with the suicidal devotion and all but unlike the marines they count as human to the vetrovnak.

>>49681415
>Question: What is the term "Vetrovnak" derived from?
It's derived from south slavic languages.

>>49686267
>As Nulls, wouldn't they be the perfect weapon against the Vetrovnak (No matter how powerful they are, the null field would at least briefly paralyze them and make them easier targets) and they would be deployed in force against the incursion, possibly being so bled out by it that the Sisters are effectively disbanded?
As nulls-but-better the Sisters of Silence would be wholly ineffective against the vetrovnak.
>>
>>49686496
I made like two thirds of the knight houses in that thing.

>>49684268
>XXX Windups (Working title)
>Revived by implanted machinery
I need a name for these guys. Coppelia Watch Brigade? Coppelia Windups?
>>
Hey Golgy, I've finished incorporating the Entombed:Discussion content with the original page. Check it out and let me know what you think.
>>
>>49687472
>>49688186
Ha! so much for "15 minutes." Anyway, if other people in the thread want to look over the reformatted Entombed page, please do so and tell me what you think.
>>
>>49688182
Cromvald Cogfops

Victorlian Steamfags

Edvardian Shitthemed
>>
>>49688186
Neato burrito sempai
>>
Who among us shall post the next thread?
>>
>>49688347
I'll do it, fuck it.
>>
>>49688448
You don't need to fuck it. Just post it.
>>
>>49688467
I'll do both, thanks
>>
New thread

>>49688522
>>
>>49688335
Cool beans, glad you like it.



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