Guess it's official. From GURPS to Masks, Mutants and Masterminds to Heroes Unlimited, from Dark Champions to Villains and Vigilantes, this is your one-stop shop for superhero tabletop discussion.Today's topic: Combining superhero flavors. Is it possible for Dick Tracy-style pulp heroes to exist in the same time as Japanese tokusatsu stars? How do you balance your campaign when your party consists of a speedster, a spy, a space cop, and a karate bugman?
Previous thread: >>47035820
>>47063722I should've put that in OP.
I would say it depends entirely on the tone of the game and the GMs style
>>47063765And people said that the Legion had too many members...
>>47063765Is the center supposed to be Catwoman or some one else?
I did a Supers Kitchen Sink setting once. Broke it up by city, though. So one city had Four Color heroes and cartoonish villains, one was supernatural horror and urban fantasy, one was extraterrestrial invasions, and so on. Some people moved around, but heroes and villains mostly stuck to their genre-city because they felt more comfortable there, and because the locals didn't like people who don't play along.
>>47063627Batman exists alongside Superman.And for much of the 80's in DC there were enough spy/espionage themed books to have a crossover with all them in it and most did not have much in the way of costumed heroes.Think of it this way; superheroes are a solution to a very specific kind of problem (namely high-profile crime and supervillains) just like plumbers are a solution to a highly specific solution to a specific problem, see?Sometimes though you just need a regular guy doing regular detective and spy work stuff.Guys like that even when they exist in comics universes likely never run into superheroes and probably don't particularly care to because they work best when NOT in the limelight.
>>47063812It's Wildcat's son, Wildcat/Tomcat. He's a were-cat, but I don't think it's ever explained how he got his powers.
>>47063812Wildcat II, or as he is more often called "Tomcat".
>>47063831>>47063855IIRC, he originally popped up in Kingdom Come. During Johns' run on JSA, he spent a lot of time referencing Kingdom Come and tossed in a lot of legacy heroes with little to no explanation how they got their powers.Basically, he really, really wanted to focus on the legacy aspect, so he invented nieces, nephews, cousins, bastard children, and grandchildren so he could have his multi-generational team.
>>47063831Ted DID have some kinda weird magical junk going on that kept him relatively young and healthy for a 90+ year old man.Maybe that piece of narrative serendipity transformed Tom into a literal version of his dad's name, since that itself is pretty narratively serendipitous.
How well do you guys build your Hero System characters? I always wanted to try out a character with nothing but martial maneuvers, but the rules on how to create martial maneuvers are confusing as fuck.
>>47063934Did they ever explain where he got the nine lives?
>>47063627>Is it possible for Dick Tracy-style pulp heroes to exist in the same time as Japanese tokusatsu stars?um
>>47064002Let's be real. Pulp, he was not.
>>47063990Yeah, in the JSA issue where Crimson Avenger tries to waste Power Girl.That isn't where his youth thing comes from though, that's due to Ian Karkull.
>>47063918I always enjoyed the legacy aspect of JSA But then again i like that their leadership is comprised of 90-100 year old men who can still kick anybody's assBut the interaction with the JLA is probably the best part of the series who do the greatest heroes on the planet look up to
>>47063627Not to derail your post, but Freedom Force is fucking fantastic and there need to be more of it.
Where's those pictures with rows and rows of public domain superheroes?
>>47064082Search "Project Superheros".That's the comic that it's from.
>>47064065Not to derail your post, but Force Works is fucking fantastic and there need to be more of it.
>>47063627Alright, some pdf troves to start. And some descriptions for if we get the newbs.>Mutants and Mastreminds! https://www.mediafire.com/folder/026war1l4oo42/Mutants_and_MastermindsThe mechanics of this game are effect driven - your damage can be thrown cards, heat rays or regular bullets, but they have same mechanics; your toughness can be bullet-proof skin, a suit of or armor or a forcefield; you can create sculptures of ice, stone or energy constructs with the same stats - but always the description of the effect is up to you. The effects cover pretty much all you need, plus there are extras and flaws to make them tick exactly the way you want, but the basic mechanics is same old d20+your modifiersThe system balances itself by limiting some pairs of stats by it's power level - so you can have an attack that is more accurate than strong, about same, or more strong than accurate.The GM Kit provides a shopping list of lego blocks to build archetypical characters with, very helpful for new players to pick up, especially if moving in from class-based systems.The game began as a d20 OGL system, but by the 3rd edition has shed nearly all elements of that, although the 2nd edition is still in use with it's D&Disms.(cont)
>>47063627>>47064124>Marvel Heroic RPG https://www.mediafire.com/folder/gwrrbfnvqh5r3/Marvel_RPGs#80f42ske83owpThis one is more fluff and narrative driven. All your powers and attributes, including a handful of key personality traits, are assigned a die size from d6 to d12; to roll you go through categories on yoru charsheet and pick up one applicable die from each and then roll the pool. The traits are freely applicable as far as you can justify it - your d12 Super Strength easily fits into a check to intimidate a guy because nobody wants to have a clobbering time with you if they can help it. Villains then construct a dicepool same way to resist. Damage can be done on three health tracksThe GM also gets a special die pool, which gradually grows and defines tension of the scene, and lets him make some things more difficult.Unlike most other systems, chargen is not running on fixed numbers, but rather you select whichever and however much dice make sense for your character and your group.After that, you can get experience by advancing through milestones on predefined tracks - either your own planned character develompent; or the written plot and goals of the current adventure (you have several of either type available but you can only embark on two at once in total)
Gotta love how they dance around copyrights.All of these guys are in the public domain, but names like Daredevil and Blue Beetle are currently taken by modern characters.Fun fact: Captain Marvel, or at least the Fawcett version, is in the public domain.
>>47064103But did Force Works have YOUNG STARR: THE MAN WHO WAS NEVER BORN in it?
>>47064186Pirate Superman is Best Superman.
>>47063627Wearing the Cape had a gumshoe as a secondary character in one book, right alongside a flying brick main heroine, a vampire vigilante and an AI/robot copy of a dead girl.
>>47064229>V-Man & The V-Boys
>>47064229>>47064249Are these meant to come across as really super gay?Because they are, and it's fabulous.
>>47064286Said gumshoe also didn't do a whole hell of a lot other than pass information along and be a superhero liason.>>47063828>>47064002>>47064323While there's plenty of stories in comics showing how they'd work, the question's more aimed at a roleplaying game where having someone sit aside so that the detective can do an investigation for a few days before telling them who to beat up isn't exactly fun for the rest of the group.
>>47064186Knockoff supers are the best supers. Especially when you throw a tiny bit of creativity into the knock-off so it takes you a second to figure out who they're based on, or mash two different supers up.
>>47064408I recently bought The League of Regrettable Superheroes: Half-Baked Heroes from Comic Book History. It's been a treasure trove of ideas. If only I had a game to use them in.Surfing the Public Domain Superheroes wiki is also informative.http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Public_Domain_Super_HeroesSome of these guys would just be a blast.
>>47064159>Captain Battle & Captain Battle JrIt'd have to be a bit annoying that your boy sidekick has the same rank as you.>Black Terror & TimTim? >>47064366Major Victory and Captain Future are definitely suspicious of Dynamic Man and Dynamic Boys dynamic relationship.
>>47064681You know the guy is trouble when he doesn't even NEED a scary epithet.
>>47063627Pros and cons for having a secret identity?
>>47064202What do you think is Black Venus's gimmick?
>>47064768Pros: Assuming nobody connects your identities, it keeps assholes from targeting your friends and family, and keeps the police off your back. Cons: Someone's eventually going to connect your identities, your friends and family won't be prepared when they do, and you have to balance an entire secret life and lie about what you're doing constantly.
>>47064749Tim didn't give a fuck.>>47064847She's listed in Dames, Divas, and Daredevils, a book about Golden Age heroines.Her fiancee was murdered by Japanese, so she decided to steal a plane and start murdering the fuck out of every Japanese soldier she could get her hands on, posing as a bar gal to gather information before sneaking out and using the information to bomb bases, shoot down Japanese planes, and stab them in fights.
>>47064875This, pretty much. No one close to you becomes a target, but it's a lot of pressure and work to keep up the facade.
>>47064768Pros:>Your enemies don't know where you live.>You can take off your mask and relax.>You aren't hounded 24/7 by reporters>If you need to retreat, you can just take off your mask>You can practice by yourself.Cons:>Constantly have to worry about getting discovered>If family and friends don't know, they might barge in trying to 'help' you
>>47064898Well you could let close family know, hey I'm ___ so they can at least brace themselves for when/if that happens
>>47064904Agh. Clicked 'post' on accident.Cons Continued:>Any slipup can put loved ones in danger.>constantly have to slip away in order to be a hero>Have to make up constant excuses
>>47064920But then they worry about you constantly that you'll be okay and will come home at night. Lots of heroes don't want to put their loved ones through that kind of turmoil, even if they could reasonably handle it.
>>47064990But they'd be basically the only high-risk profession outside of espionage that wouldn't.
>>47065030Still, it's something that puts the heroes themselves at ease. Plus, as someone else mentioned, two personas - when done well - can help cover a lot of ground. There's some places Clark Kent can go that Superman can't.
>>47065163And places that Matches Malone can enter while Bruce Wayne would be barred
>>47065207Hey, don't say anything bad about Matches.That Matches Malone is a stand-up guy. I don't even know why you're talking about him and Wayne in the same sentence fella.
How would you build a character that hosts another entity like a symbiote?
>>47065418Well, what does the symbiote do? What does it contribute to the wielder? Is it constantly active, or can it be triggered on or off?
>>47065429Leaning towards Hero>>47065443I used a symbiote as an example. The entity is a spirit that haunts the man who killed him and now compels him to to do good.The spirit adds to his presence (can intimidate/unsettle those who can't see it), suggest or give the host good/bad vibes based on the situation. With greater effort it can leave him messages like write on a foggy mirror or provide glimpses of his past and knowledge. That's all I got so far.
>>47065540So it provides bonuses to certain social checks, grants danger sense and can even give him additional knowledge?
>>47065418Probably purely fluff and roleplay. Just a normal form and form change via whatever the system has. All the aggression and fighting for control - roleplay.
>>47065418In M&M?Just give him a set of powers and tie them directly into a the symbiote. Easy.
>>47065566Pretty much yes. Nice double dubs.The character himself would be a petty crook and informant who kills a cop/handler to prove his "innocence." The cop's spirit haunts him and leads him to fight crime. He has deep knowledge of the underworld already, and fights it like the Shadow.
>>47065540So you'd have a normal guy with normal stats, then a powers section with... Possibly Detect Evil, Danger Sense, extra PRE (specifically bought as a power, since it's a result of the ghost)...Of course, it would come with disadvantages, such as Psychological Limitation: Haunted By Guilt (Common, Strong), Social Limitation: Criminal (Occasionally, Major), Hunted: Murderer (More Powerful, NCI, Harshly Punish) , Distinctive Features: Ghost can be sensed by psychics/magicians (Easily Concealed), etc.
Has anyone tried to play a mech piloting hero?I'm thinking of playing one for a possible One-Shot game
>>47066345Wouldn't be that different from playing a suit of powered armor, I'd think. Just scaled up some.
>>47066380True it is similar to Powered Armor but there are certain considerations that have to be made for Mechs >First they are treated more like Vehicles>Second the size presents a problem if you plan to fight anything smaller than your mech
>>47066457>Not having a suit of powered armor that plugs into your mech, which is just a scaled up version of your powered armor.All joking aside, it wouldn't surprise me at all if there were already official rules.
>>47066345Lucky for you, there's a Gadget Guide on exactly this topic.
>>47066345I think HERO had a chapter in one of their vehicle books on how to do mecha.M&M is handled by >>47066672GURPS has an entire book dedicated to mecha, IIRC.
I'm determined that i want to play as a giant character who is really stronk and also has an ice element to him. What could be some interesting ice related powers a hueg stronk guy could have?
>>47067144Throw icebergs at people.
>>47067144Super-breath is a classic.
bumpin with Supers
>>47067144Ice fists, ice breath, infectious ice that slowly spreads on the ground around him and on targets struck by it, environmental control, all those classics.
>>47068372Looks like Pollux from the old Flash show.
So I always wanted to run a supers game but I wanted to do it MCU Avengers style. Run a one shot or short adventure with players individually or in pairs then build up to the group session and go from there. What's the easiest system for me to learn and to teach to a group of players who've only played DnD 5e/4e?
>>47069195The biggest reason my group immediately latched onto M&M 3e was precisely because they had lots of experience with D&D 3.5/4e. If you have any experience with d20 systems, you're already halfway home with M&M.
>>47069540I've looked into M&M though character creation seems a bit intimidating and I don't know if PL8 or 10 would be good to start them out as.
>>47069590To be frank, chargen is indeed the most intimidating part of the system. Once you get past that, it's smooth sailing.Also, when in doubt, use PL10, as it's the standard by which all other power levels are measured. Most of the book assumes PL10, and the GM's kit automatically builds PL10 characters. For reference, PL10 is roughly Avengers-tier.
>>4706959010 is the default but 8 if you want more low powered or street level charactersor you could do trade offs of 15pp per powerlevelso PL8 180pp PL10 is 150pp and PL12 is 120ppThis is if you want mixed power level games with high skill low damage charactersaverage caractersand high damage low skill characters
>>47069195I've got to agree with >>47069540If your players are used to the d20 system, M&M is going to be what they're most familiar with.PL10 is where most comic book characters are. The biggest tip I can think of with character generation is to come up with a concept first, then make the powers fit the concept. There's no mechanical difference between a tommy gun, a flamethrower, or a cosmic rod's energy burst. You buy the ranged attack power, and just fluff it from there. "I have Ranged 8 which represents my sniper rifle." Done.Anything that you've bought with points, you'll never lose permanently (bar GM fiat). For example, you'll always have more bullets for your gun. If your sword is broken in half during an adventure, you'll have either repaired it or bought a new one by the time the next adventure starts. If you use all of your grenades, you'll have made more by the next session.
>>47069786>>47069703>>47069653Alright so if I'm running a one shot with one player who's made essentially not Batman. What enemies would he able to handle by himself? Like PL 5-8 minions would be easy while something that's PL10 would be a challenge?
>>47069786>The biggest tip I can think of with character generation is to come up with a concept first, then make the powers fit the concept.This is absolutely crucial. Considering the intense versatility of the system and what you can put together, it's important to have a strong concept that you can put together. The clearer your picture, the easier it gets.Also, I must reiterate a post from the last thread that shouldn't be ignored.>As others have mentioned, M&M is a system that's notoriously easy to break, and the devs themselves know it. It's directly spoken about in the 3e core book. In short, they emphasize that the game is about narrative, not "winning," and they call on the player's honor code and willingness to play for the sake of the story more than anything. The absolute easiest way to make sure you're building a good character is to ask yourself this question:>>Would I legitimately want to read a comic book or watch a Saturday morning cartoon about this character?>If the answer is "no," then you need to reassess your character.
>>47069840A 2 Power level difference is a good challenge for a 1v1 scenario
>>47069840A PL 8 guy wouldn't be a Mook, he's more likely to be a trusted lieutenant or a low-level villain. The Query and Echo to a PL 10's Riddler. There's just enough of a power difference to make them a challenge, but not an actual struggle.Keep in mind that PL isn't everything. A PL 10 character might be physically weak and lack a lot of combat ability, but could still have a high intellect, a massive amount of skills, and the ability to take a punch or two without dropping immediately.
>>47071012You can get away with being a skillmonkey in M&M, yes. You won't be trading blows with the heaviest hitters the GM is throwing at your not-Superfriends, but when properly utilized, you are still indispensible.
>>47071137Then again, while they're getting stomped by Dr. Genocide's Murder Machines, you're the one reprogramming them from the inside to turn against his mad machinations. Or translating the ancient runes of Tkarr before your brick gets dragged into the Chaotic Realms. Or not entering the room that the speedster just bumbled into because you recognized the smell of anesthetic gas and held your breath.
>>47071240Skill Monkeys can be great if you have a Gm willing to throw some skill challenges at you every session and who realizes combat isn't your thingThe latter has been a problem for me in the past
>>47071522Some GMs can be weird. I once tried to make a Doc Savage type, only for my GM to tell me that, with as much money, skills, and intelligence as my character had, they had no reason to be a hero so he wouldn't allow me to play them.
>>47071562The fact that he believes someone who is that well off has no incentive to be a hero at all shows that he himself could never actually be a hero because he outright stated that he doesn't believe in altruism for altruism's sake.In effect, he is telling you that he the absolute worst kind of guy to randomly get superpowers because he's the kind of guy that couldn't be trusted with them.
>>47072031Yeah.I mean, how many heroes fight crime just because they can, without any driving force like revenge, murdered parents, or anything like that?
>>47072145The vast majority of them, actually.A lot have tragedy in their lives but the tragedy is only RARELY what spurs on their fight to make the world better.And Batman should quite pissing and moaning about his fucking parents when EVERY OTHER HERO has dead dads dead girlfriend dead wives dead mothers dead sons dead daughters and dead brothers and yet manage to be fully functioning human beings who aren't angry and paranoid 95 percent of time.
>>47070817it's a shame that crossover never had a chance to happen
>>47064249>The Woman in RedWhat, a Scarlet Witch knockoff?
Any good large superhero team names? And by large I mean Justice League Unlimited large.
>>47072534Nah. She predates the Scarlet Witch by about thirty years. Actually, she's the very first masked female crime fighter in the history of comics!
>>47072534Scarlet Witch wouldn't be invented for another fifteen-odd years.And TWiR didn't really have powers.
>>47072592I thought Phantom Lady came first?Though if you mean "Masked Crime Fighter" like The Shadow and The Phantom rather then superheroine.
>>47070817Ha. Transformers and super heroes.Yeah that'd be pretty cool to have seen robots that could create force fields, use magneto or the flash's power or travel through time.
>>47072621The Phantom Lady made her debut in '41. The Woman In Red made her debut in '40.
>>47072636THAT explains that character from that one M&M adventure then....damn, those guys at Atomic Think Tank are awesome at inserting references you don't immediately get.
>>47064065We're never getting that sequel...Green Genie was awesome and needed more screentime. Also, the Ant was a better Spider-Man that Spider-Man.
>>47064187The sequel would have been amazing.
>>47072783>>47072811Yes. Yes it would have.
I love rebooting PDSH.I've been working on updating the Wraith for a while now.
>>47072824Is there any hope of it ever being made?
So is there a good character generator for M&M that isn't Hero Lab? I don't have the cash to spare for fancy programs at the moment.
>>47072936Just run the demo, dude.
>>47072936You can use Hero Lab for free and transcribe your stats elsewhere.
>>47072955>>47072957Oh, thought the demo would be gimped or somethin. Thanks guys!
>>47072957>>47072994Yeah, I just Print Preview and screencap.
>>47072922The people who made the games have all split up and move to different companies.>>47072994The demo is slightly gimped, but there are workarounds like >>47073017
So, I've looked over some of the options in this thread and the last, and I'm a bit stuck. What is the easiest system to use? Especially for players with little to zero experience? I'm afraid that M&M sounds a bit too complex, or am I misunderstanding?
>>47073403Some fans get real protective over it.Honestly, though, I don't think Billy would care that much. He seems more the "live and let live" type when it comes to names.
>>47073445M&M is fairly simple. The 'complexity' comes in when people are presented with options that are just... "This works however you want it." It's so broad and open that people choke when creating characters for it. It's like they have trouble connecting "Blast" with "This is a power that covers all ranged attack possibilities." or "Impervious Defense" with "This covers everything from armor to force fields to Hulk skin."HERO and GURPS are very crunchy. I wouldn't use them if you're having trouble with players handling complexity. While zero experience players can and have gotten a handle on them, they might get frustrated beforehand.FATE is pretty simple. You might run into the same 'open' problems as M&M, but mechanically it's simpler than any other option discussed in these threads so far.
>>47073500Alright, I'll take a closer look at M&M and FATE. I really want to avoid the crunchy stuff. I'm pretty sure everyone could figure it out, but I just want a nice, quick and streamlined game for them to try out. I think it would turn out better in the long run.
>>47073557As mentioned earlier in the thread, when it comes to M&M, the only hard part is chargen because of how many options there are. Once you get past that, it's smooth sailing.
>>47073403Shazam was originally named Captain Marvel. When DC acquired the character Marvel comics had already trademarked their own 'Captain Marvel' character, so Billy's superhero identity was renamed Shazam after his catchphrase to avoid a copyright fiasco.
>>47073596Yeah, I saw that. I'm checking it out now. Worst case, I can try and make up some characters for the group if they really don't feel like dealing with a rules heavy experience. But really, you'd like to think that once a concept is figured out before hand they would be able to look through and build it up mechanically.
>>47073448They really should just call him Captain Thunder.
>>47068509God DAMN, Plas!
>>47073403I grabbed the pic of some site a while ago and didn't change the file name that came with it
>>47073630No, he's still named Captain Marvel.It the title of the COMIC that had to be renamed.
I know this isn't a share thread, but does anyone have Champions 1st edition?
I just want a dice pool system that isn't MHR.Is that too much to ask?
>>47073646Give them the GM Kit. It has pre-baked lego blocks of stats for them to just select according to flavour they want.
>>47074096A company I like that makes a dice pool Superhero game, which is what was asked for, yes.
>>47074203It would be better if the game were playable, anon
>>47074203Can you tell me about the mechanics?
>>47066540>Not using Pym particles to shrink your mech and pretend you're an armor wearing hero, when in reality you're an ant sized pilot on a human sized mechaI've actually done this. Played like I was just an Iron Man ripoff, and then when the DM, who knew what my character really was, threw a kaiju our way, BAM giant mecha. It was fucking awesome.
>>47074493You add your abilities and skills to form a dice pool of d10s, you roll the d10s, count which ones are successes (7 or better if I recall) and that determines the effect.
>>47073770Used to be.On nu52, the characters name is Shazam too.Just another example on how nu52 is all around shit.
>>47073788I have a hard copy
>>47072229In a comic book universe the Kübler-Ross model is:DenialAngerBargainingDepressionGet Superpowers/Fight CrimeAcceptanceSuperman grieving for an entire planet of people (he never really knew) and Batman grieving his parents introduces an interesting corollary between grief and power level.
>>47074867>introduces an interesting corollary between grief and power level.Dude. What. No.
>>47075666Relax, Mephisto, I was just joking that the two dudes on the opposite ends of the power spectrum also have tragedies on opposite ends of the quantity/quality of personal loss.
>>47073819There's one adventure that deals with a retired Golden Age heroine who actually informed on the Freedom Society (the JSA of the Freedomverse) because she thought it was the right thing to do and went down in history as a traitor and an idiot.She was called the Scarlet Spectre and was a cross between Phantom Lady (skimpy-ass costume that looks like it could fall off at any minute) and The Woman in Red (scarlet uniform, packed a gun).
>>47064209>Yank & Doodleheh
>>47074591Apparently Johns did it because "Everyone thought he was named Shazam anyway"
>>47073688I'd blame this on it being fanart...But he's done the same thing to Big Barda in canon, and once posed as a lamp fixture in Wonder Woman's room.
>>47076881It was also almost certainly something handed down from on high.The one character whom they could never legally name his own comic book after (irrelevant as that is in modern publishing where so few characters can hold down books at all) was always a pain in the ass and DC has never been happy that Marvel could have a Captain Marvel too.With the heavy restructuring of DC into DC Entertainment and more effort put into fully turning it into a subsidiary of Time-Warner (including putting a TW exec in charge of it all) it was inevitable that they'd do their level best to avoid drawing even incidental verbal comparisons to Marvel.
>>47077149Well, Geoff Johns IS their Chief Creative Officer.
>Freedom ForceMy Niggas, how could you let this game die. It's barely on life support, heck it's barely getting kicked around the dirt. I'm surprised the main forum is still active and has a content update every few weeks
>>47077149>The one character whom they could never legally name his own comic book after (irrelevant as that is in modern publishing where so few characters can hold down books at all)i wouldn't be surprised if it was about the movies. marvel is gearing up to make a captain marvel (carol danvers) movie, so if DC wanted to make a movie about billy batson (which would be cool but it's looking less likely after BvS) they would need to call it shazam anyway. best to save confusion in advance.
>>47078186Never even heard of it, what's it's deal?
>>47078238Jack Kirby inspired Superhero CRPG/RTS with Pause Hybrid. It's not very deep CRPG wise, you get your standard statsStrengthSpeedAgilityDurabilityEnergyThen there's the Characteristics which include but are not limited to Wall Climbing, Fast Healing, Flier, Nimble (This is significantly much more if you use the FFX 3.3 Mod which adds tons of new Characteristics)You also are the one that design all your heroes abilities that he can use in battle (The ones not added by his characteristics). You're limited by the Special Effects and Element/Attack Type the game has along with the animation keyframes your character meshes have.
>>47078238Silver agey superhero game. You control your team from top down, run around areas beating baddies and so on. Has pretty extensive hero customiser. >>47063627 picture is from there.
>>47063802In fairness, thats all of the JSA over something like 70+ years, including the ones who died or got old and retired.The JLA would look similarily bloated if you had every single member who's ever been in it in a single page, and that's only been going since 70's. Let's not even get started on the fucking Avengers, when during the 90's pretty much EVERYBODY got on at some point or another. I mean fuck, Sandman was an Avenger back then.
>>47078205Why not call it, I don't know"Billy Batson and the Power of SHAZAM!""Bily Batson and the Monster Society of Evil!""Billy Batson and the Revenge of Black Adam!""Billy Batson against Mecha-Mind!""Billy Batson: Tokyo S.O.S.!"
>>47064186Man, Project Superpowers was great.
>>47078238It's pretty cheap on Steam, but also fairly difficult if you're the impatient sort. You can't just plow through and have your heroes beat the holy hell out of everyone they meet. You actually have to be tactical about things.As >>47078342 there's a lot of separate powers and traits your heroes have, from being super strong (able to lift a car over your head!) to being hot headed (sometimes you use too much power when you attack! You deal more damage but use more energy!) to absorbing/ignoring certain types of energy.
>>47078894I don't know. I thought it had some good ideas, but poor execution. The pacing felt off and I didn't like the whole "BTW, you guys now have powers vaguely connected to mythology" thing.
>>47063627What is the best way to stat someone who can build anything he's seen blueprints for, but isn't actually a supergenius or an inventor?
>>47080097In M&M I'd probably stat it out as a Transform effect, with a Flaw or Quirk of requiring him to have seen the blueprints. I'd have a memory Quirk for always remembering every blueprint he's seen, too.
>>47080097Mutants and Masterminds: just don't get the Inventor advantage.
>>47080097Lots of systems, or at least M&M, GURPS, and I'm pretty sure HERO, will let you attach limitations to powers to create exactly this sort of thing.In M&M, for example, it would probably be a whole ton of Enhanced Skill (Technology) with the Limited (Only for known blueprints) power flaw. (And maybe some levels of Quickness too to get the things built in record time.)
>>47080310Oh yes also Technology skill at mad high rank but with a flaw like "limited to building from blueprints"
>>47080308Why a Transform effect, if I may ask?
>>47080434So, because it's his One Big Thing he does, rather than say "hey, I have the possibility of failure when building things I have the parts for and have seen the blueprints for," you can say - "I will build it. I have what I need."Plus, with Transform, you don't have to buy a whole bunch of ranks of Quickness to get things done fast.
>>47080434Not that guy, but Transform (Components into Machines, Limited to working from Blueprints) completely sidesteps all the technology checks and often hours of time that the Invention rules require.You can even shave an extra point by throwing on a quirk that makes the power shut down if you're too restricted to work, since normally Transform would just let you touch a pile of scrap.
>>47080544Well damn now I'm tempted to shove that bypass on like every crafter.
>>47077898And Diane Nelson is the actual CEO. As in, actually in charge of the company. Also responsible for it's restructuring.We like to pretend our big name creators we all know and love or hate have everything to do with everything about our favorite characters, but this is real life; somebody is paying their bills and these people have bosses who they work for and the money decides literally everything, not some fantasy where comics writers are actually important people in an important industry.Johns might have been okay with it, but DC Entertainment's comics bit is an industry that considers itself lucky if it breaks even on a year and nobody makes money. The only reason the company even stays afloat is because Time-Warner recognizes the value of owning it's IP's so it literally injects money into the company to keep it alive.>>47078205It's not precisely about the movies, but it IS about how IP's can be TURNED INTO movies.Warner Brother's film division doesn't have the balls to make a film about the Shazam franchise, but when it comes to IP's you CONSIDER what might be done EVENTUALLY, so you hold onto that IP just in case someone wants to pay you for it. That's how that works.
>>47081566You could, but thematically it works best for guys like Forge who's invention ability is an actual superpower rather then someone who's just really smart.Otherwise you're just kinda being cheesy, you know?
>>47083713Yeah, it's important to have restraint in supers systems and tender everything with good taste.I mean, obviously you should always go for that in an RPG, but it's a lot more important in this genre.
>>47063627Narratively, it depends on how those characters got their powers and what exactly those characters do. Mechanically, it depends on the numbers behind the characters and the challenges they're expected to face. For example: if your Dick Tracy is Batman in a GARO universe or your toku guy is SamFlam in Dick Tracy's universe, you're fine. If your Dick Tracy is of a lower powered comic tier and you just can't play Dick in a toku game (and vice versa), you're cool. If your Dick Tracy can punch at a higher weight (by say, getting a giant robot) or the toku guy can punch at a lower weight (by say, being a competent scientist outside of the spandex), you can keep the tiers and let players play cross-tier.>How do you balance your campaign when your party consists of a speedster, a spy, a space cop, and a karate bugman?The speedster is Sonic, the spy is Bourne and Bond's baby, the space cop is Mihoshi before stress made her deep out and the Karate Bugman is Showa era.
Who else remembers this game? Who else is excited for the new edition?
>>47084294Meh. White Wolf's storyteller system and "epic" stat dots have scaling problems.And the original game had a cool setting, it was a bit too Watchmen for me thematically and I couldn't really run the types of stories you actually see in a comic book because the world wasn't that kinda setting.It felt like a setting suited to slice of life stuff involving being a superhero in this strange world, not actual superheroic smackdowns.Also? Way too much fucking metaplot.
>>47084294I do and I'm not. The star-fucking Supers gimmick was the only part worth salvaging. The rules sucked, the in book flavor sucked, the eventual metaplot ending sucked and the not Sabbat the writers jetted it to sucked.
>>47084231Man, your post is filled with so much jargon that it's nearly unreadable, except I understood all of it. Weird.
>>47084404>>47084566I actually agree with both of you. The system was a mess and the setting was often stupid, exactly what you'd expect from a '90s White Wolf superhero game, and there was way too much metaplot and wank over signature characters (especially the Teragen), but there was enough compelling stuff in the setting (particularly in the context of the future of the much more interesting Adventure!) to keep me interested all these years later. I really like the new Aeon stuff and hope that the new direction will avoid some of the worst parts of the old game.
>>47084688I also enjoyed Divas Mal as a villain.Actually used him as a Black Adam-stand-in in an M&M game though.Mostly it's that his name is really cool.
>>47084404I agree that the setting lends itself to slice of life purely because the rules are so shit when it comes to combatas an aside i hate that all of White Wolfs games have a pool of points that dictate how much you can use your powersrun out of points no powers no flight no lazers no super strength
>>47084796That IS kind of annoying.
I have a sorta-fluff question for M&M; how do you personally determine martial arts skills, the kind of stuff that Lady Shiva and Black Canary get into?There's the Fighting trait, but then there's also the Close Combat: Unarmed skill which is cheaper per point and can get you there just as fast.So how do you judge the fighting and martial arts prowess of characters the way we see Lady Shiva and Bronze Tiger and Richard Dragon talk about?
>>47085706Good question, but the answer is simpler then you think.Largely it relies on two things; the Fighting trait and how many Advantages you have for close combat shit, representing advanced martial arts training of some sort.Close Combat: Unarmed is basically the skill of hitting people with your hands. Note that this doesn't ACTUALLY include defending yourself in any way and doesn't increase your Parry rating at all. It also doesn't cover usage of weaponry, which pretty much ALL developed martial arts curriculums have to some degree.Heroes like Luke Cage and The Thing would have decent Fighting but more ranks in Close Combat: Unarmed because even though they're pretty good hand to hand fighters their methods of combat rely a lot on pure offense and throwing their weight around and relying on their superhumanly tough bodies to soak up punishment instead of blocking or deflecting attacks.Which isn't to say this doesn't make them dangerous fighters; just because a building-leveling bomb doesn't know how to party your high punch doesn't make it not able to waste you after all. But it DOES make them less well-rounded and developed fighters, not necessarily reliant on their powers but they never learned some of the more technical sciences behind combat (joints, locks, leverage, positioning, momentum etc) and without their powers they'd be much less dangerous since they effectively are relying on pure speed, strength, and toughness alone, the most blunt-force method of hand to hand combat there is.Highly skilled martial artists are a relative rarity among superheroes (Cap in one issue of his own series points out that most fight more like Pro Wrestlers then seriously trained combatants since nearly ALL are self-taught), but this doesn't make non-martial arts specialized superheroes less dangerous in any way. A knife, a vial of poison, a gun, and a laser beam all work different principles in mind but all share the function of making you dead or injured.
>>47085706I use a combination of Fighting, Close Combat, Advantages, and PowersFor me it breaks down like this>Fighting = pure natural ability>Close Combat = training>Advantages = technique>Powers = technique/specific moves/anything else So when stating a character I generally follow that as a guideline
>>47085706Easiest thing to do is to figure out their CC: Unarmed and Parry separately, based on their PL and using published characters from DCA or whatever as benchmarks. Then convert one point of each to one point of Fighting for however much weapon skill you think they should have.
>>47085706Like you say, the Fighting Ability is a good measure, but it contains two components, Close Combat bonus and Parry Defense (that's why it costs more) and doesn't take into account bonuses from Advantages nor Skills nor any powers apart from Enhanced Fighting.The system itself tells us how characters measure one another's fighting skill: the Assessment Advantage. A successful check allows the user to determine another character's attack and defense bonuses, either relative to his own or, if successful enough,exactly. Those are what I'd use to quantify relative skill out of game and inform descriptions in game. Someone with a higher attack bonus and Parry Defense is a better fighter. Some characters will be better offensively or defensively. Characters with high Fighting will be better at both.If you want to have more specific and powerful abilities to size up fighters than Assessment allows, take Sense (Martial Arts Awareness), usually a Visual sense. Acute Martial Arts Awareness allows you to identify people by their fighting styles and probably determine their background (their school and its lineage, etc.). Making the sense Analytical provides even more information, possibly giving a bonus to Assessment or even providing the information automatically (subject to a Deception check, of course. If so, I would say that a character with Analytic Martial Arts Awareness should have Assessment as well.
>>47086132Assessment is a big part of it.Someone like Lady Shiva could use Assessment to to pick up on how skilled and dangerous they are.She'd also use it to notice weather or not their Parry and Attack comes from Fighting or Advantages.The more it came from those attributes (perhaps with some Close Combat) the higher she'd rank a person's martial arts skill.Example; Batman is an extremely dangerous fighter, but his statistics show in the DC handbooks that his defensive and offensive abilities are spread out among Advantages and skills and Fighting alike, showing that his training wasn't to make him the best martial arts fighter ever but to make him a VERY GOOD fighter who also has a bunch of other useful skills. He wasn't training to be a one-trick pony like Shiva was, so he's actually a better hero and likely could defeat her by using methods other then just beating her up, whereas Shiva has zero interest in any kind of combat that DOESN'T involve martial arts.Thus Shiva rates Batman lower in skill, but Batman is technically the more dangerous fighter because he has more actual options and tricks up his sleeve other then "I punch you"....though given how shitty most modern writers are you wouldn't know that that was the case.
>>47085960>>47086060>>47086132>>47086467What about guys like Karate Kid or Iron Fist though?
>>47086564Kind of a different bag.Iron Fist IS a spectacular martial artist (one of the best in Marvel), but his Iron Fist technique and other esoteric martial arts skills aren't really the same sort of thing at all.It's kinda like a heavyweight boxing expert; legitimately he's a very good martial artist with a lot of skill who's a dangerous fighter, but don't expect him to know dick about holds and grappling or kicking stuff because that's not a skill he actually practiced at any point.Esoteric martial arts skills are in most Eastern Qi mysticism stuff considered completely different from learning to punch or kick; it's not like Dragonball where if you do enough push-ups and learn to hit real fast you automatically get the power to fly and shoot energy blasts, you actually need to GO OUT and find someone to teach you those specific skills which are different from physical exercise and martial arts knowledge....also, Karate Kid is fucking insane.Even character's in-universe think what he does is complete bullshit and then he just goes and fucking does it anyway.
>>47086564Iron Fist has dragon and chi based superpowers on top of what's been discussed.That said, he GOT those powers by being a good enough fighter that he could punch a dragon to death and eat it's heart, so, yeah.Karate Kid is just what is being discussed but at a really really high powerlevel. The man fucking parried lightning once.
>>47086635More Karate Kid nonsense.
>>47086653What's a kiloton or two anyway?
>>47086653>>47086635I was gonna say I've seen Captain Boomerang pull off shit this retarded once.But then I remember he's a Flash villain and therefore ridiculous in order maintain any kind of parity with Flash.Batman beat Kid Karate once, and in a way that was pretty much you described in >>47086467That was also the storyline where he went and parried fucking lightning.
>>47085883This is why most superheroes fight like brawlers more than anything. Superman only knows how to throw giant haymaker punches. A superhero who is formally trained in the martial arts tends to make that one of their prevailing gimmicks.
>>47086649Iron Fist is a weird case because he likely has natural qi-stuff (in actual Daoist beliefs that takes a lifetime to get to significant levels, dedicated training from pre-teen childhood basically, exposing why Cap or Batman doesn't have it; they actually learned OTHER skills rather then focus on one), but his Iron Fist skill actually uses Shou-Lao's chi to boost it to levels that normally he couldn't attain even after lifetimes of training, kinda like how a radioactive spider bite can improve your muscles farther then you could ever go and such.This actually jives with a lot of wuxia stories (probably by accident) where certain rare or unknown training methods or medicines can cause your natural abilities to just skyrocket to insane levels without the lifetime of cultivation needed to get there normally.
What are some must have enemies, traps, etc for Murderworld?
>>47086635>>47086649>>47086653How the fuck would you even STAT this guy?
>>47086782>kinda like how a radioactive spider bite can improve your muscles farther then you could ever go and such.Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who actually liked Straczynski idea that the Spider ALWAYS had a bite that gave out superpowers, and if anything it walking into a radioactive centrifugue was a bad fucking thing. Hence why (in my head-canon at least) Pete's spiderpowers are worse than pretty much any other spider-person. (Kaine had better spider-sense and adhesive grip, Madame Web had precog, Arana had her bio-armour, Miles has his Spider-Sting etc) with the exception of strength, which seems to be only limited by his own conceptions of how strong he should be.Fucker lifted a subway car and propped up a collapsed apartment once.This is probably because Gamma Radiation Exposure = Super Strength in the Marvel Universe.That said, I KNOW I'm not the only one who loved this outfit from that run.Even if the steel-toecap boots make no sense.
>>47086844The DC Handbook does it, but not very well.It DOES give him the highest unarmed attack accuracy in the entire book, bar NONE and literally every single Advantage applicable in close combat you can even get, along with 4 ranks of Penetrating for his unarmed attacks.I thought of a way to do it though.Basically, make all of his Advantages part of the Enhanced Advantage power representing his quite literally superhuman training and skills, which gives you around 33 points to play with right there.Call it "Super-Karate" or something.By spending a Hero Point you can at any point use ALL 33 of those points to make an Alternate Power, which is enough points to EASILY pull off literally ANY of his bullshit insane karate stunts you can think of, and also nicely explains why he rarely consistently does them more then once; because he needs to focus all of his skill on pulling them off rather then just naturally be able to whip them out at will.
>>47086671>No real powerIsn't the kid flying right behind him?
>>47086982Legion Flight Ring.All the Legion of Superheroes get one.
>>47086857Yeah, Shang-Chi is definitely pretty insane.Here's him knocking a man-sized hole in a concrete wall with his elbow.
>>47087031Kicking down a radio tower.
>>47087048Karate-chopping a giant robot's legs out from under it.
>>47085883>>47085960>>47086060>>47086132So the short version is that Fighting is the broader overall measure of skill and ability when it comes to hand-to-hand combat. Close Combat: Unarmed/Weapons (offensive), Parry/Dodge (defensive), Advantages (utility), and Powers (miscellaneous) are simply fine-tuning that image. Do I have that right?
>>47086707>Batman beat Kid Karate onceThat was in zero-G, and it ended in a draw, didn't it?
>>47087069Exactly.The higher the Fighting skill, the higher a base level of training and defense and attack they have, with Advantages and Skills rounding out the equation.
>>47087069Gotta love Titty Boxer.SNK has some great character designs.
>>47087031And yet he only has a fighting of d10. It drove me nuts when MHR statted fucking Drax as a better fighter.
>>47087031Is his dad still Fu Manchu?
>>47087147Fame Modifiers.>>47087169No, Marvel no longer legally holds the rights to Fu Manchu.Shang-Chi brings him up obliquely sometimes, but never by name.
>>47087264Who does have the rights to Fu Manchu?
>>47087128Vanessa is not even strictly an ace boxer (which she is). She's also a mercenary special agent, meaning she has training in espionage, intelligence, and other miscellaneous skills. I'd been meaning to build her as an M&M character someday.
>>47087303She'd make a good SHIELD-style agent, since she's got a lot of high-grade skill but isn't especially flashy with a costume and stuff like a lot of heroes are.
>>47087297No clue.In any case he's not nearly a famous enough character anymore to warrant Disney buying back his character rights.
>>47087297>Who does have the rights to Fu Manchu?Alan Moore used him in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, but he might not have ever called him anything but The Doctor.
>>47087380Pretty much. She's the utilitarian that keeps things in order and can uncover information like no one else. She's decent in a scrap as well, though I'm not sure how she'd hold up in a full-on superhuman fight. If she can fight tricky, I think she'd be fine.
>>47087613He wasn't.Moore didn't have the rights.>>47087632I doubt she'd really be able to significantly HURT many superhumans; KoF and SF characters and the like are badasses, but rarely (if ever) are they able to casually punt people through entire buildings or lift up cars.Even the more powerful fighting game characters seem limited in that specific regard, though they usually hugely outclass most other characters in their games.
>>47088033Well, yeah, they're not going to pull things like that on a regular basis, but she ought to be able to give at least SOMEONE a run for their money.
>>47088051There's a lot of Marvel guys and lower-end DC guys who definitely can get fucked up pretty bad by a sufficiently skilled normal human being.
I know there's Wild Talents based on ORE. Are there any other ORE cape games out there, preferably more "super" feeling?
>>47088176Here's how one guy described statting her. I'm not sure how close it would be. Note that Vanessa's noted abilities include a quick-step and even the ability to reflect projectiles by punching them back.>No attributes over 7. Make up the difference with Defense Roll and the Damage power. Max out the Deflect power with the Reflection extra. Those should be your only superpowers, unless you want to take SINGLE levels of speed and/or leaping (to represent peak human movement) and possibly senses (almost definitely danger sense). Spend the rest of your points on appropriate skills and advantages, then take some fun complications.>Oh, and don't copy her too much unless you're positive nobody will call you on it. Even then, it's better to steal aspects and adapt them - e.g., one character I made who started off as Hei from Darker than Black, then turned into a former CIA agent with the same subtle electric powers, but an emphasis on social skills than batman ones and a polite, congenial attitude.
>>47088344The only non-homebrew ORE supers games are Wild Talents, it's predecessor Godlike, and Better Angels, as far as I know.
>>47088350Actually 2 or 3 levels of Speed would be Peak Human movement.
>>47088350I would actually make her a PL8 character.And 7 in stats in 3e is well into the superhuman range; someone with 7 strength can lift around 1.5 tons.
>>47087303>>47088350>>47089191>>47089223I actually started up Kyo and Iori once.Was a lot of fun actually.
>>47089432How'd that work anyway?
>>47089432I'd love to hear more about that.
>>47089640The only KoF characters I figured were up to PL10 were high-grade fighters from the franchise who canonically are either extremely powerful or are actual tournament winners so basically Kyo, Iori, K', Terry, and Ash.Kyo had a fairly basic martial artist build (lacking most of the grappling feats since he hardly grapples at all), but he had an additional "Crimson Flame of Kusanagi" powerset that allowed him to buff-up his melee attacks with fire.His Strength was only at 3, but his Fighting was at 13 and when using his flames (which counted as being Unarmed with a Feature for an extra point) he could do up to 7 damage without using Power Attack.In addition, the flames had an alternate power called "Rekka Punches" that gave his fists a Multiattack extra (his flaming punch chain combos). Also lumped under his Crimson Flame power was the a Damage 6 Aura for when he lights himself on fire.Basically he had really high accuracy and defense and could pump up his unarmed damage to 12 if he used it with Power Attack, so if he dumped everything he had into single attacks he could do a LOT of damage up front.I avoided giving him projectiles because his projectiles always sucked and always had abysmal range , and he dropped them entirely after '96 until XIII anyway.Iori was a lot harder because his flames always have different affects then Kyo and is supposed to have different properties; Kyo's fire is just regular fire by comparison.Iori was physically stronger at Strength 4 (Iori always seemed burlier and more violent, and a lot of his moves are REALLY heavy upper-body attacks), but his Fighting was 12 and he had correspondingly less accuracy. He also had some grapple Advantages Kyo didn't have.He had a "Rending" Power that gave his unarmed attacks Penetrating 4 (his tearing fingers), and a "Violet Fire of Yagami" stuff that gave him similar stuff to Kyo, but instead of chain flame punches he had an Affliction power lumped under there.
>>47089910K' was largely identical to Kyo except his flame powers were cheaper since they had an Uncontrollable Flaw if he didn't have his gauntlet, since in-setting their abilities and powers are relatively on par with each other, even if K' is somewhat less then enthusiastic about showing up for the KoF fights and puts a correspondingly less amount of personal effort into them.Terry Bogard is actually probably the most well-rounded character stats-wise (he's got solid 4's and 5's in physical stats) and would actually give him more versatility in combat.He had a Ranged Damage 5 ("POWA WAVU!") and a Strength-based Damage 1 with a Line Area of effect with the Limitation that Terry charges forward the turn during the attack, ("BUUURRN KNUCLE!"), a Damage 8 Cone Area with the Limited Flaw that he MUST use his full Power Attack modifier for it ("POWAAA GEYSAAAA!!"), and finally a Strength-based Damage 4 with the same Limitation as Power Geyser ("BUSTA WOLF!").
>>47087169yes but they can't directly name him, similar to how Conan's world is still the canonical past for Marvel, and both Godzilla and ROM are canon as well, but since they don't own the rights to any of those anymore they can't directly use them(Earth X did some interesting loophole abuse regarding that)
>>47090178Oh, I forgot to add that Terry's Power Wave had the Limitation that the target had to be on the ground to be affected (of course).
>>47086761Actually, Superman's trained in martial arts by Batman and knows two Kryptonian martial arts (Post-Crisis, at least), one of which is psychic in nature.
>>47086782> (in actual Daoist beliefs that takes a lifetime to get to significant levels, dedicated training from pre-teen childhood basically, exposing why Cap or Batman doesn't have it; they actually learned OTHER skills rather then focus on one), Unless you're Taskmaster, in which case you watch a guy who's learned it for ten minutes, then kill him with a chi-enhanced punch.
>>47090178I actually thought about switching up some of K's moves to differentiate him from Kyo more, such as giving him a Ranged Damage effect (Ein Trigger) and a high-powered Area Ranged Damage (Hyper Chain Trigger).>>47090179I never stated up the Kyokugen-ryu guys.I should sometime, though Takuma is kinda hard to do since he's actually supposed to be one of the more powerful characters in the franchise as shown when he deflected a fucking satellite laser by hadokening it REALLY hard basically.>>47090403Actually, no.Taskmaster can replicate any physical movement he sees, which means he could perfectly copy the punch Iron Fist did when he saw him do it.However the Iron Fist Technique itself has nothing at all to do with muscles, and thus Tasky wouldn't be able to copy that aspect of it, so basically all he'd be doing is a regular kungfu punch.If Taskmaster wants to copy the technique itself, he'd best get his ass over to K'un-L'un and punch Shou-Lao in the face himself. No shortcuts allowed there.If he actually DID copy the Iron Fist just by looking at it recently then it's just one more example of what a steaming pile of shit the comics division of Marvel has turned into these days.
>>47090327At least three characters who have actively influenced the modern day of the Marvel Universe at least once have origins or links back to the Hyborian Age.Plus one god, but nobody uses Set anymore.
>>47090487>If he actually DID copy the Iron Fist just by looking at it recently then it's just one more example of what a steaming pile of shit the comics division of Marvel has turned into these days.Actually, it's about his ninth appearance where he pulls that off. But it wasn't from Danny.
>>47090813>>47090767Does Shuma Gorath count as a god?
>>47090813That's not nearly as powerful as Danny's Iron Fist....and actually that looks exactly like hitting a brick very hard, which any retard can do without resorting to "special techniques" that take "ten years to learn", whereas Danny's Iron Fist was able to shake Colossus pretty badly. Taskmaster can't even hit Deadpool hard enough to knock him out in one punch.>>47090823Huh, I guess he kinda does.He's more "godlike" then a lot of Marvel's deities anyway.
>>47091138I never said it was on the level of the Iron Fist. Just that he learned to use Ki enhanced punches.Also, he got a facelift between the Hyborean Age and now
>>47091171Also, he never actually uses it in the storyline that this showing was from. Which is weird to me.
>>47091171That actually sounds more like the One-Inch Punch, which is just using your muscles again. So basically it's some White Fuck with no accomplishments claiming he's got actual cool magical shit when all he is is really fit.Which in the world of superheroes is like saying you have functioning legs; it's basically given and if you don't then you're a special case.Chi/Ki stuff is an esoteric skill and it takes longer then ten years; Shang-Chi can do what that guy did and even more without having any special abilities AT ALL. So basically Tasky copied the One-Inch Punch.Which actually is pretty cool and tells you a lot about how badass he is.
>>47091237Speaking of Taskmaster, I have a player who is making a new character for a HERO game I'm about to try and he mentioned something like this. Anyone know how to stat that?
>>47085706Fighting, Close Attack, Close Combat skill, that's all just point-balance.Fighting gives you +1 to all melee and +1 parry for 2pp total.Close Attack is +1 to all melee for 1pp. You can buy +1 parry separately and it'll be functionally identical to Fighting.Close Combat: Unarmed is when you decide to save half a powerpoint per rank by limiting it to fists strictly. It's not really well representative of good martial artists because those can use weaponry pretty well too.Most of it is in Advantages and using them. I.e. varying your striking power to accuracy; buying disarms and grabs and tripping and using those extensively, so on.And finally for real super kungfu you have powers and do whatever they hell you please with it.
>>47064103>Force WorksHoly fuck, someone remembers Force Works. It's hard enough finding people who remember that there were West Coast Avengers, much less the team that picked up their broken pieces.
>>47091280Wish I could help, but I don't know HERO.
>>47091442I know WCA AND Force Works.Admittedly I'm more familiar with them because they were Tony's team in the original Iron Man animated series.
>>47063802>>47078527It makes sense for the JSA and Legion to have fuck huge rosters. The Legion basically protect The Federation from Star Trek and the JSA is more of a superhero rotary club than a task force. As Johns wrote in his run they're a community.
>>47090392Yeah. I'm not sure if Nu knows anything but New Earth Superman was able to kick Lex Luthor's ass unpowered because Batman taught him moves.
>>47090487>Actually noThat reminds me of his UDON comic series where he goes up against a Shi'ar using Shi'ar martial arts. The anatomical differences between human and Shi'ar meant that Taksmaster hurt himself trying to copy the moves. His body just couldn't move like a Shi'ar.
OK we've had a lot of system discussion but I'd like to have more about actually running Supers games. I've run a few short campaigns and I think my group is ready for something longer. How do I start planning, and make it "feel" like a supers game?
>>47091546You gotta remember, even when Clark lacks his powers he's still six foot three and weighs over 230lbs and in absolutely perfect physical shape.
>>47091576He never fought a Shi'ar in the UDON series. There was a second Taskmaster mini which revealed that he had constant amnesia and only pretended to know people, because he'd forget them in a few hours after because his head was full of memories.Which begs the question of how he had friendships and carried on memories. That was a stupid fucking retcon.
>>47091674Er, I meant to say that he fought a guy using Shi'ar arts in that second series. Which wasn't UDON.
>>47091617What kind of team are they?What genre and sort of scale do they function on?
>>47091700Dunno yet, I'm in the veeery early stages of thinking about this
>>47090392Torquasm-Rao and Torquasm-VoSupes teaching Lois Raohttp://imgur.com/a/kZvfCSupes fighting a master of Torquasm-Vohttp://imgur.com/a/1TTemPost-Crisis Superman was and I guess still is broken as fuck
>>47091761No one ever remembers he has it.
>>47091714You need both of those first."Superhero" isn't precisely a genre, it's a character archetype.The scaling power of the team is also extremely important because it determines what you can and can't throw against them and expect it to be challenging or fun.
>>47086635>it's not like Dragonball where if you do enough push-ups and learn to hit real fast you automatically get the power to fly and shoot energy blastsIt's not like that in dragonball either.It's just that every single meaningful alien has innate Ki ability. Frieza's mooks have to use guns that shoot Ki instead.Goku also had to learn kamehameha from a wise hermit in a typical fashion. He just got it impossibly quickly because he's a fucking alien with innate ki skills. He still couldn't fly even after that, he used the cloud.After that, yeah, ki power=physical power so you gotta do pushups to train em both.
>>47091280Oh shit. Uh.There was a book he actually got namedropped in. The Ultimate Metamorph, I think. Yeah, on Page 13, he's dropped as being a Mimic with a limitation to Only Copies Physical Skills.I think it would work like>Shape Shift>Hearing Group, Any Human Voice, imitation, Reduced Enduance [0 END], 37 points total. (You use hearing to target, that's why. This is because Taskmaster can perfectly imitate voices enough to fool machines. He can disguise his voice as anyone he's met and practiced. Anyone who's working to detect something wrong is at -3 Perception to detect him. With this, he can imitate ANYONE'S voice.)>Sight Group, Any Human Shape, imitation, Reduced Enduance [0 END], 37 points total. (Largely the same reasons, except this imitates his holographic disguise emitter. Note that this ONLY affects how people can see him. It doesn't mean he changes shape at all. With this, he can imitate anyone he's seen.)>Reflex Memory>Variable Power Pool>60 Base + 30 Control Cost.>Only For Physical Skills The Character Observes In Use (1/2 cost)>80 points totalThis gives you a pretty large power pool from which to basically look at any physical skill a character uses and add those skill points to this power pool. You may need to increase the cost.It comes with some limitations. For example, the character can't copy something like Computer Programming and Lockpicking because there's more than just physical movements there. While the GM might allow you to copy PS: Typing, Programming requires specific knowledge and Lockpicking requires a different method for each lock in existence. You've got to concentrate and feel for it, which is something you don't get from watching. (Consider it like how Tasky nearly drowned as a kid because he copied a perfect dive but not how to swim after.)
>>47091920In most stuff not for young kids ages 10-15 (the kinda weird esoteric shit) Qi is a separate thing from muscles and that's actually common to most martial arts that even talk about it philosophically. I'm speaking of the "real" stuff, so to speak, as it is explained by "experts".This is partially because the idea itself originates from China (hence the originally spelling of the word) and every martial arts discipline that talks about, even in Japan, has heavy Chinese influences.Notably, regular bJiujutsu and Akijutsu (who are purely Japanese arts) don't really talk about it at all and instead talk about momentum and movement a lot.
>>47091938Actually, some of those costs will need to be redone. That's a 5th Edition book and I can see it's changed in 6E.That said, this doesn't account for him 'learning a style so perfectly that he can predict his opponent's movements'.I'd buy Eidetic Memory, for obvious reasons and... Maybe Aid, with the Reduced Endurance, Constant, and Only Aid Self modifiers. And another Power Limitation of "Only with opponents/styles X has actually fought against". Basically, this adds Character Points every Phase in a round that you're fighting against someone, making you faster, stronger, or tougher. Another, probably more thematic, option is to use the Skills power to increase your combat skills, again with the special limiter of "Only with opponents/styles X has actually fought against".
>>47092162>That's a 5th Edition book and I can see it's changed in 6ESpeaking of which, which edition of HERO is best? I see a lot of people say 4th, because it's before it began to slowly inflate under the weight of trying to fix itself.
>>47092183I honestly haven't played enough to say. Most of the complaints I've heard about 6 are more along the lines of "The books are boring to read"
I think next thread we should come up with /shg/'s very own super-team.
What's your favorite rules-lite game?
>>47092203We'd kinda need to agree on a system first ya know.
>>47092236I've had fun with FATE in the past.
>>47092255Nah. We'd just do them up in different systems. The big question would be power level. Do we want a street level team, a Cosmic team, or a JLA-style global team that can also do cosmic?
>>47092281Global Avengers-style kinda team.Saves the world, but not every day. Sometimes they just save a country or a city rather then fight the White Martians every Tuesday.
>>47092203For a Super Team you need to cover all the bases>Powerhouse>Tech Guy>Magic Guy/Psychic Guy>Normal Guy>ChickNot to say the line up cant include more variation but you need someone to fulfill those rolls
>>47092300Do we want to stick to JLA-style archetypes? You know, you've got your Superman flying brick, your energy manipulator, your normal guy who's a badass, your magic-type, your speedster, your alien, and your tech dude?Personally, I think that the face of the team should be a luchadore or luchadora. Someone who gains power the more their fans, or the people around them, believe in them.
>>47086635I can't not hear Randy from South Park
>>47092341Avengers bout to get #rekt
>>47092341Actually? No.That's a pure RPG thing that is transferred to comics, when the vast majority of superteams do not have "power quotas" they need to fill but instead are about the characters themselves and how THEY fit together. "Powers as characters" is a spectacularly bad idea and why a lot of new superhero teams fail to ever be good reads.The Avengers alone are all over the fucking place in terms of what kind of powers they had access to.
>>47092345That's too lazy.It's more important to focus on personalities, and if you're going to make references then do at LEAST three or four major influences on the character."Borrowing one element makes you a ripoff, borrowing two makes you a hack, borrowing there makes you clever and borrowing four makes an homage."
>>47092423Then again, this is /tg/. We'll probably end up with Waifu 1, Waifu 2, Waifu 3, Anon Self Insert, Waifu 4....
>>47092388Im not talking about power levels or anything like that I'm talking about specific archetypes that should be represented or at the very least considered before we all decide to make a team
>>47092490You were talking about powers first rather then thinking of characters first.....but admittedly >>47092473 is right. There's really no reason to do this super right or anything, it's just a silly thing for fun.
>>47092203>>47092490I feel like the best way to do the super team is random gen them. Whether we use MnM or MH.
>>47092940Man, I did the whole "random team gen" thing once for our entire group of M&M. Ended up weird, but kinda cool.
>>47092976Fuck it man let's do it. How many people should we make for the founding members of the team?
>>470930085 people, and an AI who helps keep everything organized and can fetch information.
>>47091617Well first you decide if it's hometown heroes vs monster of the week game or some globe-throtting thing.Then you come up with some big evil organisations, and their smaller offshoots and offshoots of offshoots for heroes to encounter and gradually dig in. Put those offshoots into the city they're based in. Sprinkle some independent smaller supervillain teams and solos.Also you need to decide if the heroes don't especially knew each other and come together in some big dramatic event happening (which you open the game with) or if you'll mandate backstory connections.For that you can do approach like this>imagine every one of them as a short-run comic book. The player defines what the plot is about (plothooks goldmine) and what generally happens.>then every player gets a card with some other player's name. Their character makes a guest star appearance in the other's comicbook. They discuss how and what they do and what relationship they have.>do p2 again with different pairsYou should have a group of guys who know each other with one-two degrees of separation and can pull together when shit hits the fan.Aaalternatively, use picrelated (and see http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/17679146/ for example). Or combine them....I'm ramblingTLDR:>option A: not-murderhobos are pulled together by a calamity, form a team, fight monsters every week>option B: deep character goal driven shit. and also fight monsters every week.
>>47093041Alright let's roll d20 for our first member
>>47093041An AI who has her own humanoid chassis she can use in case she wants to do any "field work."
Rolled 9 (1d20)>>47093107I fucked up
>>47093120First member is a mystic. Need another d20
>>47093041>>47093068Enough with the robot waifus before we even start. Keep it random I say, let the dice fall where it will.
>>47093171But you need the robot waifu, for diversity purposes.
Rolled 8 (1d20)>>47093155
>>47093196Diversity purposes only matter if your initial plan at the outset is to make every single other member a Caucasian heterosexual male from America.
>>47093204>Magical Heritage: Your family has a long history of beingblessed with magical powers... or perhaps it’s a curse.>Str 0 Sta 0 Agl 1 Dex 3 Fgt 4 Int 2 Awe 7 Pre 4Another d20 for our founding Mystic who has yet to be named.
Should we make a new thread?
>>47093246Just say roll another 4d20 so you can burn through the rest of everything in a single shot. I can see you're using the GM kit for M&M 3e.
>>47093246>who has yet to be named.PROFESSOR WITCHALOK!
Rolled 18, 3, 17, 4 = 42 (4d20)>>47093246I'm going with >>47093295
HERO question: let's say I want to make a character, somewhat like ghost Rider, who uses a small vehicle for combat and other stuff. How would I stat that out?
New thread: >>47093356>>47093345My mistake: we need another 4d20. The powers section rolls five times.
>>47093345Shit that he/she has for just being a mystic>Equipment 3 (Headquarters), Ranged Attack 5, Trance, and also rollon the table below.>Headquarters—Size: Medium, Toughness: 10; Features: Concealed,Dual-size (Huge), Laboratory, Library, Living Space, Personnel, Sealed,Security System, Self-repairing, WorkshopNow for the rolls>Student of the Arts: You study and research constantly in order to keep informed.>Advantages: Ritualist, Well-Informed>Expertise: Magic 10, Insight 6, Perception 4, and roll on the tablebelow as directed.>Affecting Presence: You have the skills necessary to explore new places.>Skills: Intimidation 4, Persuasion 4,Expertise: Magic 10, Insight 6, Perception 4,>Magic Spells: Array (24 points, plus 5 points of Alternate Effects)>Magical Blast: Ranged Damage 12 >Mystic Constructs: Create 7, Continuous, Innate,Precise >Dispel Magic: Nullify 8, Broad (Magic), SimultaneousSo I need one last 3d20 for this guy
Rolled 14, 13, 6 = 33 (3d20)>>47093459
Rolled 15, 4 = 19 (2d20)>>47093488>Maddening Blast: Ranged Damage 8, Resisted by Will>Enervation: Ranged Weaken 8, Broad (PhysicalAbilities (one at a time))I miscounted and the 13 needs a reroll
>>47093277No, lets ride this one into autosage on the wave of random rolling, lest we sink the new one too fast.
>>47093523We can jump to the new thread after our mystic is fully rolled.
Rolled 6 (1d20)>>47093516sure
>>47093516>>47093546>Mystic Bindings: Ranged Affliction 12 (Resisted by Will; Hindered and Vulnerable, Defenseless and Immobile), Extra Condition, Limited DegreeSeconday Powers>Astral Projection: Remote Sensing 8 (Visual, Auditory, Mental),Limited—Physical body is defenseless, Subtle 2>Levitation and Mystic Shield: Flight 4 (30 MPH); Sustained Protection 12, Impervious 6Other powers>Additional Magic Spells: Roll 1d20 three times (re-roll if you get the same result twice) and add them to your Magic Spells array as Alternate Effects.>Illusory Appearance: Morph 2, Attack,Burst Area, SelectiveSo god damn it we need another 2d20
Rolled 17, 17, 2 = 36 (3d20)>>47093564With an extra in case of rerolls.
>>47093586Thank the lord you put in that extra >Teleportation: Teleport 3 (250 feet), Accurate,Easy, Extended (8 miles), Portal>Apparition: Immunity 2 (Suffocation);Insubstantial 4 (Incorporeal)So our Mystic is done.
Posted Mystic all in one post >>47093658
>>47092372That's the Morrison era JLA team at it's height. That's fucking Kyle "Ion" Rayner and Wally West there, along with Plastic Man for an extra fuck you.Put ANYBODY on the other side of that equation except MAYBE their corresponding Earth 2 Injustice League from the same period and it's gonna be #rekt
>>47094729Does Marvel even have speedsters comparable to Flash?
>>47094767Comparable to flash how he's portrayed most of the time, rather than uber-physicsfucker speedforcer?
>>47094790Uber-physics speed force.As for portrayal, the only speedster I can think of from Marvel is Quicksilver and I'd be lying if I said I own anything with him in it so I can't really comment.
>>47085706>Leaving out Cassandra Cain
>>47094820No. Marvelverse explicitly does not have a speedforce, which is where 99% of the Flash's major league bullshit comes from.Even if were just going with Cartoon Vs Cartoon (like say, JLU vs Wolverine & the XMen) then Flash is still miles better than Quicksilver. Marvel does not have a lot of speedsters, and the large majority of them are villains too.
How much bullshit can Doctor Strange pull off if he bothers showing up for the crossover?
>>47094985Literally all of the bullshit.I cannot emphasise enough how correct I am using the word "literally" in this instance.Seriously. The name SORCEROR SUPREME isn't something he fucking thought up in his aunts house, it's a fucking rank. He is factually, anoited the closest Marvel gets to an out and out christian god to being the supreme sorceror of this dimension.There ARE other dimensions with their own Sorceror Supremes, Shuma Gorath of the Chaos Dimension or Dormammu and wherever he's from.And you know what those two have in common? THEY'RE FUCKING UNIVERSE ENDING SUPERTHREATS.AND STEVEN MOTHERFUCKING STRANGE THE EVERLOVING SORCEROR SHITTING SUPREME STILL HANDED BOTH THEIR ASSES ON MULTIPLE OCCAISIONS.
>>47095086And he still gets his shit rocked by the Hulk
>>47095113Are we talking about WWH? Because the guy felt guilty as fuck over that and probably let him get his hits in.Lord knows Hulk had earned it after all the bullshit Stevie did to him back when he was in the Defenders.The guy would literally just snap his fingers and summon Hulk and Namor whenever he felt like it. At the end of each adventure either one or both would tell Strange that next time he called they wouldn't answer, and he'd just roll his eyes and do it anyway the following week.This went on until they were able to replace themselves with Valkyrie and Not!Batman, Son of Satan etc etc.
>>47095145I don't think there was anything close to "letting" in that scenario.
>>47095113Yeah, Hulk is a special case.
>>47095180Wasn't pretty much everybody jobbing to Hulk in WWH though? Like the first thing he did was take out Black Bolt. Which they had to retcon into being a Skrull because it was so fucking unbeleivable.
>>47086844It's pretty easy, really. Give him a "floating" pool of points, possibly Strength-based, that he can use for "active" effects, probably about 2pp/PL. You can then use that pool to build Alternate Effects appropriate to the descriptors the character has. On the pages posted, he's he's either using power stunts to buy either Nullify or Deflect or else spending a Hero Point to use his points for an Instant Counter.Remember, in Mutants and Masterminds, once you have a pool of points, you can then technically use it to buy any effects so long as they are appropriate for the character's descriptors. Super and super strength stunts work the same way. A speedster can use his "active stunt" points to become intaangible, turn invisible, punch at super speed (buy multiattack on strength or strike damage), create a tornado, or whatever. Super strength guys can have super breath, counter death rays by punching them, knock people hundreds of feet with a punch, or countless other things. This is also how things like Green Lantern and Human Torch would work. The only difference in that Karate Kid has the, "martial arts," descriptor on his effects and Iron Fist has "martial arts," "chi," and, "dragon," descriptors.
>>47095330MnM 2e even has a Power in the Ultimate Power book called Reflex Memory. No need for anything else.Of course, it's crazy expensive - moreso than the Nemesis power even, at 9pp/rank, but if you can copy skills, that's probably your whole schtick.Not sure off the top of my head