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ARCHIVE: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Dungeon%20Life%20Quest
PREVIOUS THREAD: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/46604080/
CHARACTERS AND PLACES: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19gNVgtevar647l4ZumUaVH6GlJzvxLlDNKaH8DrQMWE/edit?usp=sharing
WEBCOMIC 'CAUSE Y'ALL ASKED: http://wildwestscifi.net/gallows-humor/13683-gallows-humor-prologue

You are Brianna la Croix. You were expecting more trouble from Hunting Talon, but this, this is beyond the pale.

If he wants the wages of treason, he can damn well have them.
>>
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>>46661961
The next harpy that swoops at you is interecepted by Kat. The bird-man screams in agony as the shadow tears his wings from him and hurls him over the side, spraying blood in hot, arterial gouts.

You pop the cork on your bottle and drop it to the floor before pulling a bone wand from your belt.

"I try to be a nice person," you snarl. You can see Nate weaving a deadly dance with the Hatchet Man. One of the harpies makes the mistake of getting too close and is reflexively cut down by the older human; he buries an axe in her skull and lets her crash to the floor without so much as breaking his rhythm.

He's better than Nate. A lot better.

Amy whirls through a mass of harpies that are learning to their detriment that her wings are sharp and her reach with them is a lot longer than they think. Blood and feathers fly from broad slashes, turning screeches into screams and painting the stone with blood.

"Command me," John growls.

> What do you want John to do?

AND

> Send Kat to help Nate
> Send Kat to help Amy
> Keep Kat

AND

> Use the bottle for darkness
> Use the bottle for direct attacks
> Write-in?
>>
>>46662235

>John helps Nate
>Kat helps Amy if Amy needs help and Diving Shadow for whatever reason can't help her
>Use bottle for direct attacks
>>
>>46662235
John
>Start tearing his way towards Razor. Don't avoid interceptors, but maintain threat in that direction.

Kat
>help Nate

Bottle
>Direct attacks aimed at hatchet man

Now if only there was a way to silently tell Amy not to directly aim for Talon incase he's setting up to backstab Razor.
>>
>>46662235
>> I want you to kill them all john
>> kat help nate
>> Use bottle for direct attacks.
>>
>>46662341
John eats Talon's wings
Keep Kat
Use Bottle for Attacks
>>
>>46662235

> What do you want John to do?
Help Amy, he'll just get in the way with Nate

> Send Kat to help Nate
Nate is not gonna win this fight fair without losing more limbs.

> Use the bottle for darkness
Stick with what you're good at
>>
And now I can get some fucking dinner. I'll call the vote once I eat.

>>46662352
I'm trying to influence the votes less with commentary (and thank you again to the anon that pointed that out), but I need to note that hurling rot blasts into a pitched melee is a bad idea for the same reason that shooting into one is a bad idea.
>>
>>46662494
Yeah, I figured the direct attack option was either picking off the harpies flying around when we had a clear shot or saving it for inverting the organs of anyone who flies at us.
>>
>>46662494
Well Kat is not exactly something to worry about in terms of friendly fire, I considered that.

I have doubts on the effectiveness of darkness on Hatchet Man, or rather if it'll be a net gain over weakening Kat(unless it strengthens by way of stronger contrast?) and doing the same effect to Nate.

And I am concerned about ONLY sending Kat to Nate, sounds like he needs more help than that. So I'm willing to put a little faith in luck and teamwork.
>>
>>46662235
>> What do you want John to do?
Help Nate

>> Send Kat to help Nate
Amy they want alive, she's good.

> Use the bottle for direct attacks
FUCK THE HATCHET MAN. Rot that bitch. Also, then we can focus on Razor Feathers.
>>
>>46662235
>>> Send Kat to help Nate


>John

Take down Hunting Talon and anyone who gets in the way.

> Use the bottle for direct attacks
Hypothetical question: What if we smashed a bottle of concentrated death essence on someones head?
>>
>>46662706
> Hypothetical question: What if we smashed a bottle of concentrated death essence on someones head?

Honestly you'd beat a few people to death with the whiskey jug before you actually broke it. Like, we've been calling it a bottle but if you recall it's a stone jug. Shit's kinda heavy and thick.
>>
>>46662706
considering that these people bathe in it on a daily basis, I wonder.
>>
>>46662734
Right. Well, thats always an option!
>>
>>46662235
> What do you want John to do?

Play D for us, he's pretty tanky as is and Kat is better for attacking anyways.

> Send Kat to help Nate

Amy has her mom helping her, and I'm sure that Vox isn't cheap enough to pull the "family and friends die for cheap pathos" card just because we don't help her.

> > Use the bottle for direct attacks

Time to rot some bitches.
>>
>>46662494
Yeah, but Nate is pretty much ideal for disengaging since Verve can fight on it's own even if it's at a reduced capability.

Nate suddenly bails and we blast the area with Rot, fucking up the Hatchet Man while Verve holds him back for a moment, and then Nate comes back in before he can heal.
>>
>>46662865
uhh, that's actually worse than Nate just ducking with Verve in hand.

Wraithsteel reacts very poorly to necromancy.
>>
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>>46662494
>>46662865
> Greeeeeeentext telling you to read my post in the event we go with rot. I'd rather risk alerting the hatchetman than rotting Nate. Dudes already down a body-part.
>>
>>46662885
I thought it reacted poorly to being forged by Necromancy, not just blasted by it.

Fine, then. We get John to grapple Hatchetman while Nate disengages and we rot them both. John ain't living through this anyways. We can cheer him on to remember Emily.
>>
>>46662922
>We get John to grapple Hatchetman
I don't think that will go as well as you think it will.
>>
>>46662985
> One of the harpies makes the mistake of getting too close and is reflexively cut down by the older human
He will be sliced apart before getting in melee range.
>>
>>46663080
Meh, he's undead. He can take a hit or two. At least he'll make him run out of axes.

Also, you don't really expect your allies to hatchet you in the fucking head because you invaded their personal space.
>>
>>46662235
> John play defence for us so that we can concentrate doing our magic.
> Send Kat to help Nate
> Use the bottle for darkness
>>
>>46662494
And now nobody wants to play with Rot.
>>
>>46662494
See this is why dice rolls are a good thing.

Because you've just told us that using rot is a BAD idea. Not a risky idea, but a BAD END choice in this choose your own adventure quest.

If we were doing dice rolls, it could be that "Well, it's going to be riskier for your allies if you possibly hit them" and we could maybe decide that the risk of hitting our allies is less than the risk of the Hatchetman hatcheting up our husbando.

So either stick to letting us make our bad choices, or make choices less arbitrary, because otherwise you might as well just hand us the win on a platter.
>>
>>46663279
What? I haven't changed my vote, your tactics just need a bit of work.
>>
>>46663279
From what I can tell, 'direct attacks' is still winning. I was pointing out that aiming at the Hatchet Man is likely to hit Nate, nothing more or less.

Calling Soon(tm).
>>
>>46662235
>John: play defence for Bri
>Kat: help Nate
>Bottle: direct attacks
>>
>>46663304
Old DMing instinct. The 'are you sure?' urge is strong.

That and both of my models for questing (MHQ & KCQ) take time to explain tactical consequences during votes or when it becomes relevant. I'm still trying to find the line between offering an explanation and influencing votes, which...has not been easy.
>>
>>46663417
Give a percentage or difficulty level, roll dice to see if we pass? You don't even have to do it here, you can do it at home.
>>
>>46663417
>models for questing
>mhq
You run everyday, i don't believe you.
>>
>>46663417
Valen Quest goes "Are you forgetting something . . . ." for secret options or to let players know that one choice is going to be worse (but no choices are single kills). Then you have the chance to bring up the relevant information from earlier in the quest to make a fight easier/avoid it etc.
>>
>>46663440
Anon, Hunter Command is indirectly /responsible/ for me running every day. He's the one who told me that early in the quest I'd need to run over multiple days while I built momentum and interest. I'm certain you know the rest.

I'm crashing out hard so I'ma leave the vote and discussion open until the morning instead of trying to update right now. The bad news is I have to work tomorrow; the good news is it's a short shift I picked up from someone else.

I'll likely be awake for a bit, answering questions and discussing. I'm fucked-up-tired but not sleepy yet, more's the fucking pity.

Questions, comments, discussion, feedback, and criticisms remain welcome and appreciated.

Thank you all for reading and participating!

>>46663431
Eh. Rolls don't appeal to me for this quest, not least because at this point the die is cast and I don't wanna jolt sideways into using them after this long of /not/.

I am working on a mechanical framework for the next one though.
>>
>>46663304
>Because you've just told us that using rot is a BAD idea.
No, he didn't.
He told us that using rot /in this one specific way/ is a bad idea. And it was a pretty obvious bad idea, as he explained.
And the specific way wasn't part of the offered option, it was a addition by anon. So it was essentially rejecting a dumb writein, something which all QMs do or should do.

>>46663417
Dude, relax. You're doing good.
>>
>>46663456
Huh. I should investigate this, that sounds pretty damn reasonable.
>>
>>46662235
> Have John help Amy or us, whoever is farther from Diving Shadow

> Send Kat to help Nate

> Use the bottle for direct attacks
>>
>>46663553
It's a pretty good read as well. Currently on break between story arcs.
>>
Aight, crawling into bed now. I'll tally and call in the morning. Thanks for the discussion and feedback, folks!
>>
As a side note, I realized earlier today why there are such weird consequences when we die.

Lora using the angel tongue to make us live again forces us to be alive in continuity with whatever else may have happened. It's not ressurection - it's re-creation.
>>
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> What do you want John to do?
Cover Bri, dawg, because...

> Send Kat to help Nate
She's the least likely get in the way of Nate and is probably generally unimpressed by hatchets.

> Use the bottle for direct attacks
Plenty of other harpies to go around here.

Meanwhile... GentlemanKong, I attached an edit of your image. Maybe that'll help in softening her features.
I also edited the top of her hair, which ended somewhat abruptly there. The ear meanwhile seems fine to me.
>>
>>46663907

You do make a solid point there. Reality complies with the Tongue, no matter what it has to bend or break.

Let's hope that Bri is not the proverbial butterfly in this story. And that we'll never find out.
>>
>>46662235
>John plays offense, gunning for Razor Feathers, but actually planning to jump the Hatchet Man.
This way, we can send Nate some back up, but still push forward.

>Keep Kat.
This is one of those situations where I wish we had upgraded Kat to be stronger/have a witchlight core. Maybe at the end of the 'interlude that is actually an arc of its own'.

>Stow the bottle for now, we can use it on the giant spider later; Summon the Ancestors! And then down a health potion because FUCK THAT HURT.
Maybe we can call on Grandma La Croix? She was a true Master of the craft, so she's /got/ to have some neat tricks.

>>46663907
She /is/ recreating Brianna's body, but the soul and memories remain the same. You could say its like she's a living Matryoshka doll. Or something. I dunno how to exactly explain it, waaaay too late for me to try.

>>46663941
Those lips seem waaay too big. Very puffy, and I don't see that working with Brianna. I was going for a thinner upper lip that curled over the cigarette.
>>
>>46663490
Vox is a great writer, but honestly a noob at being a GM and is making noob mistakes. Narrative quests need incentives and disincentives to pick different options without making distinctions between "good" or "bad" options, and if you're going to have a high lethality narrative quest then you either need disposable MC's, or you need a lot of foreshadowing and planning which honestly is insane to expect from a daily quest like this.

DLQ is a fun romp, a nice "choose-your-own-adventure" but it's far and away from an amazing quest mechanically.

And that's okay. It's Vox's first foray into it, and if he can learn how to do better than that's fantastic. But let's not pretend that a large part of the draw is the insane fact that he's posting constantly for months now.
>>
>>46664329
> Lips too puffy

Isn't Brianna black though? You trying to whitewash my Nigress of the Jungle here, GK?

And personally, I feel like we're in the place to spend death before we spend our life. Summoning Ancestors should always be our backup plan, never our go-to.
>>
>>46664533
I always took her as somewhat Cajun/Mulatto, and Vox has said that his magical realm is relative to Late Medieval Europe. She could also just be Italian or Greek, they get rather dark sometimes.

And the only reason I argue to use the summoning is because I don't want to risk the chance of losing one of Bri's beau's during a /side quest/.
>>
>>46664508
Dungeon Life Quest works well as a quest without including the more complicated quest mechanics, and as far as I can tell the choices offered weren't always obviously good or bad. For example, commanding John, commanding Kat, and using the death bottle were choices offered earlier this thread without clear outcomes. The purely story choices were much less ambiguous, but Vox is likely aware of that and uses them to help tell the story.
>>
Hey, anons?

What about negating the advantage of superior numbers by doing a fighting retreat to one of the many tunnels around the Roost?

There's four of us, against who knows how many harpies. The tunnels let us limit their numerical advantage while also constricting their ability to make use of the third dimension that their wings allows them.
>>
Anon talking about random dice shit has a point.

Like, I feel no tension from this ambush. At all.

Because if we beat this without a single casualty or setback, all this event does is establish Talon is a villain now and a hilariously inept one at that.

In all honesty, Talon got us fucking good here. He played us like a GODDAMNED FIDDLE. If he seriously teamed up with the person controlling the Roost to bushwack us, barring divine intervention or a leak or some shit I don't see how we wouldn't be fucking dead right now. If Talon can't get us when he put us right where he wanted us perfectly set up with us being none the wiser, like, shit, do we even need to kill him? This moment will essentially 'defang' Talon in my eyes if this happens and any future conflict with him will be hardpressed for him to have a better result than this, his most greatest of ruses.

Now, there is the one argument that maybe he's going soft because he wants a situation where Amy will live, but like, c'mon, he's going to risk his life and his murder being killed when we eventually come for him for this bullshit? This should be his best effort.

Somebody else suggested maybe he's pulling some sort of triple agent shenanigans, but honestly that's super convoluted and sounds dumber than his decision to betray us and even slightly dumber than the fact that he fucked up his betrayal this badly when everything went according to his plan.

ON THE OTHER HAND, what can Vox really do to us? Let's say we choose all the safe, cookie-cutter options he's provided and haven't voted "commit suicide" or whatever. If he kills Nathan or Amy, the two waifus and the most well-developed characters other than Bri, then, lolok, guess that happened.
If he kills Jon, who the fuck cares.

If he kills Bri, it's sort of a similar situation to the Nathan or Amy situation but at least that's recoverable enough in the sense that nothing is permanently destroyed. (Barring memories perhaps.)

(1/3)
>>
The only person he can really get away with just killing off that would actually have some impact is Diving Shadow or maybe Fetch (I doubt Fetch since he's sort of mascot material). And the issue with killing off Diving Shadow here is, god, it's so cliche and it's going to be more annoying than tragic because Diving Shadow hasn't been characterized THAT well. Her character is all about Amy which is why her death is going to be one more tally on the 'Amy character development' which ugh, I won't even get started on that.

Also, let's face the truth of the matter, Vox doesn't want to kill off Nate or Amy. I don't want him to either.

Not to mention the bitching some anons will do because "why the fuck did you kill off our husbandos with one vote we couldn't even tell was a trap/bad" And those anons would have a point. Our biggest failure in this whole thing so far is trusting Talon and honestly, maybe this inevitable but sudden betrayal is something we could say Vox signposted like a million times. Because he did. Multiple times via Amy's description of his character and we just decided to trust him to safely set up a meeting with a known cutthroat murderer leading a murder of murderers.

And I think the most annoying part of it all is the gall Vox has to say that "shooting ranged into melee is a BAD FUCKING DECISION"

Holy fucking shit Vox, really, that's the big fuckup that will cost us the game here? Shooting ranged into melee? if we chose to "fire rot beam" into melee that is what will cause you to write the death or horrible maiming of one of our npcs?

(2/3)
>>
That is what will earn the punishment?

Not the fact that we walked into a gigantic trap.

See, walking into the trap is what should get one of our npcs killed, not shooting ranged into melee.

And yet, oh boy, let's look at shit right now.

The plan to shoot ranged into melee was a write-in option.

The choice to walk into a fucking trap was a proffered choice by Vox.

The write-in is what Vox suggests we don't due due to CONSEQUENCES.

The trap option he wrote we 'still have a chance to make it out of' which I'm calling such fucking bullshit or DM fiat or whatever if we do, unscathed.

This reeks of fucking railroading.

All in all Vox, shut your fucking mouth when the vote is going on. If you don't want us to die, don't have NPCs we implicitly trust for some reason betray us in the most brutal way possible.

God, 'firing melee is a bad idea' my fucking ass. Yeah, that -4 penalty sure is a dealbreaker right there. Fuck me.

So yeah, more dice.

(3/3)
>>
>>46665272
> the person controlling the Roost
I thought we already established that, in truth, no one "controls" the Roost. Razor Feathers has what is probably the strongest of the various murders in the roost, and thus is able to physically occupy the top spot, but that's hardly control.
>>
>>46665279
> if we chose to "fire rot beam" into melee that is what will cause you to write the death or horrible maiming of one of our npcs?
> That is what will earn the punishment?

Where was this said? Cause reading this thread, it looks like you're pretty much just making that up.
>>
>>46665343
>I'm trying to influence the votes less with commentary (and thank you again to the anon that pointed that out), but I need to note that hurling rot blasts into a pitched melee is a bad idea for the same reason that shooting into one is a bad idea.

Yeah, I know 'bad idea' does not necessarily translate into 'dead npc' but it translates to some sort of consequence.
>>
>>46665362
And yet you went ahead and wrote up a big long rant on the assumption that it was exactly that. Based on literally a single sentence.
>>
>>46665393
>Anonymous 04/14/16(Thu)02:30:18 No.46665393 ▶
>>>46665362 (You)
>And yet you went ahead and wrote up a big long rant on the assumption that it was exactly that

If you notice, I later wrote CONSEQUENCES in big bold letters rather than 'lol dead npc' to imply it is not the consequence itself that is the issue
>>
>>46665272
>>46665279
>>46665287
>>46665362

If you honestly think so little of this quest that you jump on a single idle comment as a sign that the QM is trying to "punish" people who defy his "railroading," why are you still reading it?
>>
>>46665287
Actually, I would like to point out that Vox could have this fight either severely injure one of the characters (kind of difficult to do what with potions and magical prosthetics) or split the party. In the Roost. AKA the Murderiest Murderpit. Remember how we almost died to a monster that we just happened to run across?
>>
>>46665412
Yet you still did argue that Vox is going to kill an npc as punishment for shooting into a melee. If that's not what you were trying to complain about, then just stick to the things you want to complain about from the get go. Complaining about an additional, more general thing a little bit later is not an effective way of saying "but that earlier thing wasn't really what I was talking about, this other thing is what I'm talking about."
>>
>>46665421
Yeah, but honestly the way he came in and brought up the whole "shooting into melee" thing . . . well, when he says it's a "bad idea", since there isn't any dice or chance involved it translates into "This is a bad idea that WILL cause you to hit your allies". I now know that doing this will fuck over Nate or Amy who are currently in melee combat.

I'm not complaining about rails. Narrative stories NEED rails, to a certain degree. But now that a rail has been pointed out, it's broken the immersion.

Vox could have said "There's a chance that firing into melee could result in you hitting your allies, even though rot is one of your strongest attacks" although we just tried that with the Mantis and got Jack Fucking Squat as a result - luckily he put us on the rails and had us blow up the Mantis' bones without any input.

Honestly, the Mantis fight was the least climatic "giant monster fight" we've had yet. We wandered into it with no knowledge, preparation, or foreshadowing and it felt more like an attempt to distract us with crafting than anything else.

It was very well written, but I felt pretty much zero player agency.

In addition, this huge strung out votes are toxic as fuck for narrative stories. Hours on hours of "votes open". Shit is toxic on a board like this.

I would much rather see Vox give up the "always running" novelty, get a twitter, and just update people when he's writing so that he can condense the threads. Or do votes through straw-poll like how House and Dominion does so that people can discuss in thread but vote on the polling site.

IDK, I guess the thing is I feel he's writing a very good story but totally half-assing it on the Game part. It feels like Princess Guard quest, and while don't get me wrong I'm enjoying it, I feel less and less like there's any real involvement from players that isn't just cosmetics.

I voted for using rot after he told us about what would happen because it's better than a boring success.
>>
>>46665272
>>46665279
>>46665287

> Anon says we should shoot at a dude in a sword fight with one of our buddies
> Vox says one sentence on shooting into a melee maybe being a bad idea
> Anon rages and types up a three post tirade decrying Vox as a railroading DM who wants to punish the players for trying anything, whines about Vox's "gall" because he doesn't "shut [his] fucking mouth," and says that Vox's writing is now either annoying and cliche or DM fiat.
> Over one sentence, which arguably was just offering some fairly general, common sense advice
>>
>>46665510

Cont. Anyways, I'm not here to shit all over your guys fun. I feel that I've pointed out what I think this quest is lacking as an RPG, some form of maintaining tension with or without dice, and the fact that Vox seems to be very resistant to running this as a game as opposed to a novel, or working with the chan format as opposed to just always having a thread up at all times.

But it's his/her shitshow to run. It's just painful to see someone so talented in writing characters and backstory and fleshing out a world seem so disinterested in having consistent or reliable mechanics.

Maybe I've just been ruined by Banished Quest - but hey, at least I'm not shitposting IRC levels of autism here.
>>
>>46665510
The mantis fight wasn't a climactic giant monster fight. It was literally Amy saying "I really want to go kill something," followed by us randomly going out and killing something.

> In addition, this huge strung out votes are toxic as fuck for narrative stories. Hours on hours of "votes open". Shit is toxic on a board like this.
The only issue I'm seeing right now is you freaking out over the littlest of things.
>>
>>46665513
> Over one sentence, which arguably was just offering some fairly general, common sense advice

Where was the fairly general, common sense advice that we shouldn't trust Talon, the amibitious murderbird who will do anything to realize his dreams?

But you're right, I'm fairly fucking buttblasted. Because Vox admitted he should probably stop offering commentary and then went and did it about one of the most benign things possible.

>>46665553
That ain't me anon, that's the other guy.
>>
>>46665513
Yeah, and he should have let us find out that it's a risk when we fucking shot Nate or Amy up with some rot as opposed to going "Uh oh".

It's one thing to tell someone that a thing is risky when there's an element of chance, but since this game doesn't have that it changes the context.
>>
>>46665563
I'd like to think that this is a ways away from "freaking out". But pretending that it isn't breaking immersion in a narrative game is just as toxic as constantly shit flinging.

It feels like he's keeping us from making any bad decisions at all.
>>
>>46665563
> Where was the fairly general, common sense advice that we shouldn't trust Talon, the amibitious murderbird who will do anything to realize his dreams?

No, because advice on dealing with a particular character is story-specific. Not shooting at two people brawling when one of them is someone you really don't want to hit is more general. There's a difference between advising someone on how to handle a specific person and advising someone to follow standard firearm safety rules.
>>
>>46665553
> Fighting giant immortal Priestess turned into a mantis through dark unknown magic that has a bunch of immunities.

Yeah, I agree that it didn't turn out being a climatic monster fight which is a fucking shame considering the set-up it had. Who the fuck are we, OPM now?
>>
>>46665590

Except nothing says magic should have to follow firearm/bow rules.
>>
>>46665581
Following Talon to "talk" with Razor Feather was a bad decision and, as pointed out, Vox didn't stop that.
>>
>>46665590
> Standard firearm safety

> Vaguely worded magics with undefined characteristics in the paste-bins

Seriously half-assing it on the mechanics of this quest. Do we shoot a ball of energy? A beam? Does our will make it happen on the spot? I honestly thought that the rot would just start to happen at the point of our target.

There ain't even shit in the paste-bin really describing how magic works, you would have to go digging through the quest.

And since we aren't rolling, not having that information is pretty brutal. That's a lot to read through.
>>
>>46665617
But why is that bad decision not prefaced with any sort of warning?

Why are the bad decisions the players come up with the ones Vox warns us about and not the ones he himself writes?
>>
>>46665617
Yeah, and he shouldn't have for casting rot magic either.

I didn't stab some dude on the street yesterday, so it's totally cool for me to steal this car okay?

>>46665611
See post (x) in thread 15 where it was briefly mentioned, god, haven't you read the last 4 months of solid writing and remembered all the details?

Fuck me, is bonesplosions a touch range spell?
>>
>>46665633
Because Vox is new at this, and learning, and making some mistakes. Excellent writer, poor to mediocre GM (but that's heavily carried by his writing).

The mechanics are inconsistently brought up and difficult to access, the quest runs constantly so it's a huge pain to trawl through, and he refuses to get a twitter or an ask.fm and his pastebins are 100% flavour and zero explanation of how shit actually works.

This would be much better if it was a game for a group of close friends doing the same thing consistently, but for an anonymous image board it's gonna fuck shit up especially as we get more complicated shit happening.

Does anyone even know where our undead hands are?
>>
>>46664508
just because he doesn't use "standard" quest mechanics doesn't mean that he's clueless about what he's doing.

He knows his way around the system far better than the average QM. That he got this far WITHOUT dice rolls is proof of that.

>>46665287
hooooly shit you're overreacting.

>>46665510
>since there isn't any dice or chance involved it translates into "This is a bad idea that WILL cause you to hit your allies"
...no. First of all, there have been dice rolls before, behind the screen. One succeeded, and one failed.

Second, "bad idea" does not automatically translate to BAD END, I'm willing to bet that Vox isn't about to pull a Dran on us.

Third, I already countered with why I was willing to accept the risk due to the other options minimizing such risk.

>Honestly, the Mantis fight was the least climatic "giant monster fight" we've had yet. We wandered into it with no knowledge, preparation, or foreshadowing and it felt more like an attempt to distract us with crafting than anything else.
It's true, Vox didn't want a fight with consequences here, he just wanted to see Anon's familiarity and style with regards to Bri's abilities. Except we don't have a pastebin of all her abilities. And that the last arc did not involve Bri at all. And that the arc before that ended from the perspective of the enemy, using a weapon that we no longer posses.

He lost more than he gained with that fight, even though you could tell he was trying to emulate MHQ.



I believe above all else that Vox is not a "noob" at this, because I can see where deliberate decisions were made. Whether those decisions were RIGHT is a different story, but automatically calling things like mostly not having dice, an obviously specific choice for depicting the narrative, wrong? It served well enough in the Gorger fight.
>>
>>46665633
>>46665643
See
>>46665590
Character specific advice that doesn't give away too much is hard to do when you're the one that created the character.

"Shooting into a melee is a bad idea, like in real life" doesn't have that problem. You're not drawing upon information that is unique to the character you have created and might not be generally available.

It's kind of like insider trading. You're not supposed to act based on information that you only have by virtue of your insider status/connections and that an average person could not possibly have.
>>
>>46665633
....Is this the part where I call you Vaelys?
>>
>>46665643
>>46665629
> Complain that Vox doesn't tell us about the mechanics of a spell
> in response to a post where Vox tells us a bit about the mechanics of the spell

Just no pleasing some people.
>>
>>46665694
Except sensing a person's motive is totally not a unique thing.

You can analyze body language and the way the person is acting to understand they're about to betray you.

It's drawing upon information about tells.

Sense motive is a skill.

>>46665696
Go for it breh
>>
Rolled 97 (1d100)

>>46664508
Long time quest fan here, I do agree, no RNG does take away something, although its too late to change that for this quest
>>
>>46665684
> Ask about Quest mechanics, see >>46663484


Eh. Rolls don't appeal to me for this quest, not least because at this point the die is cast and I don't wanna jolt sideways into using them after this long of /not/.

"But we've had 2 dice rolls!" in 4 months of gaming?

> He knows his way around the system far better than the average QM. That he got this far WITHOUT dice rolls is proof of that.

He's outright said that he's unfamiliar with /tg/ mechanics several times?

Hell, my main issue isn't even that he isn't using "standard" mechanics, it's that he appears to be not using any mechanics or is incredibly poor at communicating what they are so IF YOU HAVEN'T READ EVERY FUCKING THREAD WITH A FINE TOOTH COMB than you don't know what the fuck is going on.

Then, like I said, when you use Narrative mechanics you can't ruin the tension by going "are you sure". Hell, he's already talked about doing this and said he shouldn't so I don't know why you're defending him doing that.

Or why you're defending him being a "noob" when he's clearly and repeatedly stated that he is, in fact, new at this using the chan format and /tg/. He's doing amazing for someone new to this, but the way it's structured as opposed to a Roll20 game or a game with friends means that you have to at least throw up a non-fluff pastebin about how shit works so that people can reference it each thread.

The worst part about how you defend him is that none of this is really the worst. It's a fun quest, with people having fun, but you pretending any criticism is invalid is only going to keep Vox from growing.

>>46665694
"Shooting into Melee is a bad idea" Yeah, it's a risk, but without dice to provide an element of chance then when the ST says this it fucks up how people view it. Also, aforementioned lack of communication about how magic works. Not all magic works like guns.
>>
Honestly the way I see it the harpies of the Roost are literal bird brains who do not think of long term goals and of more how they can benifit in the short term.

Look at Hunting Talon for example, he promises to help but did a simple double cross with Razor Feathers because he thought that that is all he needs to do to get Amy running back to him.

Even after explaining to Hunting Talon that Amy can't see herself ruling the Roost with him anymore.

It is like Bri said, the people who are in the Roost only live to fight and die for petty gains in the Roost. Making temporary alliance when convenient and betraying the same murder the next day.

Thus when we agree to go with Hunting Talon I figured we are taking the direct flight to the final stage without all the mid bosses we have to fight cause we are going all meta and decide to play it safe.

Well at least this way the whole Roost affair will be wrapped up fairly quickly considering this is a side quest and NOT a Chain Holder level.
>>
>>46665716
Yeah, right when we were voting on whether or not to do it.

When you're putting out ideas is kind of a shitty time to say "Oh, don't do that, it works THIS way desu sempai senpai".

Anyways, nobody asked him how rot blasts worked prior to that.
>>
>>46665723
> Except sensing a person's motive is totally not a unique thing.
> You can analyze body language and the way the person is acting to understand they're about to betray you.
> It's drawing upon information about tells.
> Sense motive is a skill.

In life, yes. In the case of Vox hypothetically advising us not to go with Talon? That would be complicated by the fact that he, as the QM, knew what Talon was going to do. He might be able drop hints in the story itself without revealing too much, and he kind of did do that. But offering a bit of advice on the side, outside of the story? Doing that with a character from the position of QM is dicey. German's done that, and in SW Fortune Hunter it's led to more than a few shitstorms.
>>
>>46665796
No one asked him before, so it didn't come up.
As soon as it did come up, he clarified.
And this is rage-worthy? Why?
>>
>>46665837
It came up because I rolled a die to fuck with him and it came up nat 100
>>
>>46665760
>means that you have to at least throw up a non-fluff pastebin about how shit works so that people can reference it each thread.
....I'm not disagreeing with that?

>pretending any criticism is invalid
did you not read the part where I was criticizing him?

I'm not saying that we can't question his actions, but claiming that the "solution" is to add more dice? I completely disagree. There are good dice systems, and good diceless systems, and while there is a problem with making combat Have Consequences, that doesn't mean there is one objectively correct method to fix it. And it certainly isn't "add dice", when there are a wealth of dice mechanics to choose from and each has their problems and benefits.
>>
>>46665837
Because nobody asked him when it came up either, he just popped in to say "That suggestion is a bad idea, don't do that."

This would be great information, but the timing totally destroys any tension. Now, if we shoot into melee and DON'T hit someone, since there are no rolls it will feel like he's babying us. If we DO shoot into Melee and hit someone, it'll feel like he's punishing us after telling us it's a bad idea.

Instead of having the risk of hitting someone, we have a schroedingers railroad where we'll either hit or not hit someone based on DM fiat as opposed to letting us make our own mistakes.

Nobody asked him about it. And quite frankly, I don't think it would be very good if we DID ask Vox every time "Do you think (x) is a good idea?" It would be different if someone said "Hey, how does Rot magic work?" and he said it was like shooting a gun, or a grenade, or growing it at your target site whatever. But now he just came right out and said it's a bad idea.
>>
>>46665819
But Vox dropped absolutely zero hints when Talon came to get us that he was going to betray us. Very direct, non descriptive language that didn't even hint at any ulterior motives.

If shooting into melee is bad and we need to be warned, why was their no attempt when Vox had talon come to get us, even the slightest hint, that he was planning something foul.
>>
>>46665837
Because we had no way of knowing how magic worked, and then Vox starts acting superior when someone makes a reasonable suggestion that just happens to be off of the rails.

Congrats, you know the system that you invented and have never told anyone about better than other people with actual lives that prevent them from memorizing every single word in every single thread.
>>
>>46665865
Or planning something 'fowl'!

Geddit?
>>
>>46665865
We all fucking knew it.

If you didn't know it was coming you are a moron.
>>
>>46665862
>>46665871
> don't do it
> acting superior

Again, where did this happen?

Cause all he said was
>>46662494
> I need to note that hurling rot blasts into a pitched melee is a bad idea for the same reason that shooting into one is a bad idea.
>>
>>46665892
Wait, what?

Why would you all accept if you knew it was a trap?

Because I have to say, it sounds like you all made a very bad decision.
>>
>>46665857
I haven't said the only solution is to add dice. I told him to look at Valen quest, to add what mechanics there are for how magic works in non-vague terms, and to not comment on votes unless asked to clarify.

Something good he did was make us decide how to divide our resources. We are surprised and surrounded so we have to decide who we support and the risk understood was that both Amy and Nate are under attack. However, since we know that Amy is wanted alive we can weight the risk for her as less than Nate and come to a decision that still provides tension but doesn't let us know if it will be successful.

After all, Hunting Talon could just kidnap Amy and GTFO while we're dicking around. Amy doesn't die, but we "lose" her. That's good narrative writing.

But you CAN'T tell people outright the results of their choices unless it's previously been brought up.

An example would be "Hey, let's blow up the dam and wash away the army!" GM: "The Dam above the village?" Players: Discuss among themselves if the village can handle the water, or if it's worth the risk, or if the village is worth the trade.

not DM: "If you do this, the Village will be wiped out just saying" because now you know the consequence to the choice already.

I would have been so much more okay with this if Vox had phrased it as a re-telling of what we were going to do "You want to fire magic into a melee?" as opposed to outright telling us that it would hit Nate.
>>
>>46665920
> as opposed to outright telling us that it would hit Nate.
Where did he do this?

Again, stop making things up.
>>
>>46665865
Were you not there for people posting "Lol, this is a trap but w/e let's roll these fucks in their own home."

I really hope we tell them "We're not trapped up here with you. You're trapped up here with me."
>>
>>46665937
See

>>46663321
>From what I can tell, 'direct attacks' is still winning. I was pointing out that aiming at the Hatchet Man is likely to hit Nate, nothing more or less.


At least read the thread. Come on man. Once again, without dice "likely to hit Nate" isn't a percentage chance but ST fiat and since this is the ST telling us this . . . . .
>>
>>46665905
Because offing Razor Feather was a priority item.
>>
>>46665941
>>46665951


Alright, where was the warning that that's a stupid idea that's likely to get people killed?

Like, you can't just spring a trap without a safety net and think it's going to go fine because you knew about it beforehand.

Fuck, holy shit does that deserve a warning so much more than 'don't fire ranged into melee'.
>>
>>46665950
We've had random chance in this quest.
Vox literally dealt out cards for a poker game that could have permanently killed Bri.
>>
>>46665973
>Vox literally dealt out cards for a poker game that could have permanently killed Bri.

No he didn't.
>>
Bitches please, you wanna talk about a tough QM, go to AT-TE commander quest, the QM is basically the readers drunken abusive boyfriend.
>>
>>46665920
>outright telling us that it would hit Nate.
he didn't?

"You want to fire magic into a melee?" is just as vague as " I need to note that hurling rot blasts into a pitched melee is a bad idea for the same reason that shooting into one is a bad idea."
it's easy enough to figure out that there is SOME risk, so would leaving Nate without support, or bringing on the darkness.

>>46665950
you're really convinced that diceless outcomes are binary, aren't you?

People can duck, back off. Hatchet Man can go for us on the first sign that he notices. Kat is even there as someone immune to friendly fire to ensure that the situation tips closer to our favor. Nate could actually catch on and set it up, or Hatchet can see it coming and attempt to use Nate as a meatshield, forcing us to blast harmlessly into the air but giving Nate some breathing room.

And if it's a "percentage" chance, you're still more likely to hit the target you're aiming for than not. By your own logic, it ain't going to happen.
>>
>>46665973
You seem to think I have a problem with narrative quests. I don't. I have a problem when the ST in a narrative quest tells you the results of your decisions while you're still deciding it.

Also, the vague mechanics makes it difficult for people to know what's going on without a pastebin describing how things like magic work.

>>46666016
It's not binary, but arbitrary. Which is fine except for when you tell people what the result of their decision is going to be, which ruins the tension as opposed to with dice where you can say "the results of this action are likely to be (x) or (y) as opposed to another action where the likelihood is different".

Vox saying what he said at that time breaks the player agency.

Going "Nuh-uh, he could have the character do ALL THIS" breaks the player agency, because now it makes it clear that it's the ST doing this and not the choices of the players.
>>
>>46666117
>>46665973
To clarify, the reason I brought up dice is because that sort of thing isn't disruptive to tension or player agency when using dice because the element of chance by the dice determines what will happen, not ST fiat.
>>
The Vaelys legacy continues.

"We have to know every outcome and what consequences will happen before we make a choice!"

No you don't.
>>
>>46666133
You're retarded because we're arguing the OPPOSITE.

But please, keep bringing up this Vaelys character.
>>
From last post it is clear that the Hatchet Man is probably the only one that can give us any real trouble.

Razor Feathers might call off her murder and let Hunting Talons murder take most of the damage.

Depending on how powerful the Hatchet Man is, we might have a rematch further down the road or we can deal with him right now.

Also, stop shitting up the thread with non quest related discussions please.
>>
>>46666216
I wouldn't discount Razor Feathers. I mean, she DOES rule the Murder at the top of the roost.
>>
>>46662235
> Have John cover us as we provide spell support
> Send Kat to help Nate
> Use the bottle for darkness

For what it's worth, I'm opposed to rolls in quests in general. The randomness is too strong. It's like if RPG combat boiled down to "you roll your fight skill and I roll mine, and whoever rolls higher wins." You need more rolls than quest threads can feasibly handle to balance things out and allow people to shift tactics mid-stream. If you try to run that many rolls in a quest thread, things just grind to a halt.
>>
>>46666266
She does not have wraithsteel wings like Amy though or the experience in dealing with a whole lot of nasty creatures like her too.

I bet Amy can take Razor Feathers 1 on 1.
>>
>>46666285
You either roll "behind the screen" (outside of /tg/) like in Joker Quest.

Or you use BQ's system of 3 rolls of 3d10 + bonuses to beat a set DC.

Or you do it like Fallen Gods Quest where you have different DCs for better results with DCs changing on your plan of action.

And you NEVER have people roll until you've decided a plan of action, and only give vague "This is riskier, this is easier but less effective" descriptions of how hard each choice is going to be.

But yeah, straightforward "best of 3" is pretty weak.

Or you have a comprehensive paste-bin so that people actually know what they're doing when they pick narrative choices like in Valen Quest. You really can't slack off on that with narrative quests, everyone has to understand the mechanics of their actions otherwise you end up with . . . . issues.
>>
>>46666305
Except this is pretty much the first time someone has thrown a bitch fit this hard about "Mechanics". Fucking hell
>>
>>46666334
It certainly won't be the last.
>>
Only getting four hours of sleep for no good reason fuckin' sucks. I do not suggest it.

I'm up. I'm going to take care of my morning stuff & then call and write. I'd like to thank the folks that've been providing feedback and suggestions. I'm filing this particular event under Today, I Learned and will be looking into some of the mentioned quests and ideas while we move forward.

Again, thanks for the read & for takin' the time to offer your thoughts. Thirty minutes or so to call.
>>
>>46666439
Not the sperg faggot, but if you ever want to add dice, the 3d10 system is quite good.
>>
>>46666439
Just shut the fuck up in between voting periods.

Or if you're not going to shut the fuck up, at least don't signpost your post with "i know i should probably shut the fuck up"

Also,

It's a narrative fucking quest.

If you don't like that our plan isn't optimal because "ermehgawd, firing into melee, muh tacticool senses are sperging out" have us fire into melee, almost hit Nate and then fucking have Bri say "I probably shouldn't do that again"

or even better

have Bri fire into melee, have her not hit Nate because why not, it's fucking magic anyway and write the rest of the post

or even more better

if Bri is tacticool like that, have her fucking wait for a lull in the fighting to shoot at the Hatchet Man

or slightly worse

Have Bri hit Nate. Just let it happen. Nate get's rotted or hurt. how dare the players not think things through tactically.

I'm still super surprised you decided to manipulatively veto something as inconsequential as that fucking write-in due to CONSEQUENCES when you already acknowledged that you should probably stop doing that.

Again, let me just make this clear

Whatever you think would be the 'tactical consequences' for firing a ranged attack into a heated melee are FAR FAR FAR less than the 'tactical consequences' for walking right into an ambush that, according to your voters, they knew they were doing at the time.

So, y'know, you want to give explanations about tactics, pick and choose your points in a way that doesn't make you seem like a hypocrite or a railroader or just plain fucking stupid.
>>
>>46666562
Nice quads.

I've been toying with doing dice for one of the levels for a little bit now, as part of its...particular...nature. I'm gonna do some digging and decide which I wanna experiment with.

>>46666608
And then quints.

It's clear I didn't handle this case particularly well. What I'm /trying/ to avoid - the source of the 'are you sure?' urge - is things happening because /I/ thought something was obvious that wasn't necessarily obvious to the readers.

I didn't handle that well this time, as evidenced by the argument, but it's with good intentions.

Called, tallying, writing.
>>
>>46666608
You do realize Vox's comment was made to clarify a point about how rot magic works that was not necessarily clear to the readers, since we've used very little of it, yes? In other words, we were acting based on player knowledge, but Bri had in-character knowledge that we didn't, so Vox provided us with said in-character knowledge. That is the appropriate GM action as far as I'm concerned, and I imagine a lot more people would be complaining if he hadn't clarified that.
>>
>>46666673
I'm sad to hear that, honestly. I don't want dice, and I have no problem with that comment.

We are not trained warriors. Bri is. She'd know that, and we might not. The comment was entirely reasonable.

I don't think randomization is the magic bullet /tg/ seems to think it is. And I'd be really fucking disappointed if this quest started getting derailed by bad rolls.
>>
>>46666673
>/I/ thought something was obvious that wasn't necessarily obvious to the readers.


While true that it wasn't obviosu, it also happens to not be important.

"But this attack works like -- "

it's.

Not.

Important.

If you were writing a novel it's important, but are you writing a novel?

No. It's a game. A player was saying, hey, use this power thing to hit the guy attacking our boyfriend! and instead of just, i don't know, ignoring it if it triggers your autism so fucking much you had to say WELL ACTUALLY, THE WAY IT WORKS, THAT'S A BAD IDEA

Who fucking cares?

Does it make sense that Bri is able to dodge harpy swipes super fucking easily? I don't know, maybe.

With that kinda precision maybe she can accurately fire ranged attacks into melee.

You play pathfinder Vox, I know you do. precise shot is a fucking feat.
>>
>>46666673
> >>46666562
>Nice quads.
What. Vox, are you hallucinating or misquoting?
>>
>>46666725
I despise any form of crit system and d20s in general for that precise reason. Fuck RNG swings
>>
>>46666770
He's talking about the numbers in the middle because he's still a fucking newfag.
>>
>>46666770
There are 4 6's in a row
>>
>>46666673
Try to just read my positive comments and ignore me responding to shitposters like >>46666608
here.

People that think Narrative quests don't have any mechanics are fooling though, and the problem with running on someplace like /tg/ is that it hard for people to grok how things like spells work unless it's spelled out.

haha.

The problem with bringing it up during a vote is that instead of describing how the spell works, is that you took a position and said it was a bad idea which starts the shadowruns.

I personally don't think that this quest really needs dice, but that if you plan on continuing with narrative mechanics than pastebins such as how magic works (just a short description for each magic like "Rot: Gather a bundle of death and focus the aspect of entropic decay. All things must end, and in the grand scheme of things a day is the same as a century. Anything you hit when throwing this concentrated ball of decay immediately feels these affects and begins to rot away." Fuck I'm not good at flavour text but you get the idea. We now know that it rots shit by aging it (I have no idea if that's true) so we can kind of estimate what it might be useful against, and we know that we throw it instead of having it be a field effect or a cone or a ray or take effect on-site with no transit in between.

It's hard to keep track of things like this on chans due to the way they're formatted and quite frankly due to the sheer mass of writing you've produced.

Dice let people wing that shit because they can just go by the odds and hope for a lucky roll as opposed to intimately knowing the process of how their actions will play out. That's why I was tossing it out if that's easier than writing up a bunch of detailed paste-bins.
>>
>>46666770
See >>46666789 but probably also >>46666785.

>>46666725
I've been toying with it for a few weeks now, trying to decide if it'd produce the effect I'm trying to evoke. Still can't decide if it will or won't, so fuck it, I'd rather regret trying it than regret not trying it.

>>46666809
I can probably add somethin' to the characters-and-places doc, aye.

Winning options were:

> John defends
> Kat helps Nate
> Use the bottle for direct attacks

Writin' now.
>>
>>46666904
If there's some sort of randomization effect on a floor and you had that actually add rolls to the mechanics of your quest for the duration of that floor, that would be a nice way of employing the meta in establishing theme so kudos if that's your plan.
>>
>>46666904
> I've been toying with it for a few weeks now, trying to decide if it'd produce the effect I'm trying to evoke. Still can't decide if it will or won't, so fuck it, I'd rather regret trying it than regret not trying it.
My vote is for "don't", but it's your quest, and I'm not the only player, so take that as you will. I also don't know exactly what you have in mind, of course.
>>
>>46666904
>I've been toying with it for a few weeks now, trying to decide if it'd produce the effect I'm trying to evoke. Still can't decide if it will or won't, so fuck it, I'd rather regret trying it than regret not trying it.
You can always put it down to a vote.

Can do something like at thread start, declare extra vote for introducing dice mechanics some time down the line, leave it running for 24h and see what the actual majority thinks, rather than just one-two guys with longest posts.
>>
>>46666782
I see now, you were triggered when dice were mentioned.
>>
>>46667083
Nah I like dice, crits and d20s are just my least favorite system(s).

So a mini triggering I guess
>>
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>>46662235
"Guard me," you tell John. "Kat, protect the Hero."

Your shadow streaks away with talons extended. You draw death up from your bottle and into your hand.

There's no shortage of targets, but you're looking for someone useful to hit. The first harpy you cut down is diving for you, and you have to duck as her screech of fury turns into terror and pain.

What's left of her smears against the stone.

The Hatchet Man moves smoothly, his inexorable assault becoming a fighting retreat that keeps Kat and Nate on the same side of him. The Hero lunges and slashes as much as he dares, but you can see the frustration mounting on his face.

"Stop playing with him," Razor Feathers snaps over the din. "Kill the boy and get the necromancer."

"You aren't paying me enough to get the necromancer," the Hatchet Man answers calmly. He blocks a blow from Banquet with his bracer and hits Nathan across the jaw with a gauntleted fist. One of the Hero's teeth goes flying, but the Hatchet Man can't follow up - Kat lunged in while he was distracted.

John, for his part, is having a field day. The draug works a crossbow with malicious glee, firing into the wheeling mass of harpies looking for their opportunity. He tags one just as you rot another, and the two crash into a small knot of others.

This can't be /it/, can it?

Razor Feathers blows sharply on a whistle. Of course that wasn't it.

"She's calling in the dwarves," John warns. One of the harpies swoops too low and is dragged to the ground by the draug; John tears the bird's throat out and bashes him against the stone.

"What happens if we drop?" you ask quickly.

"You land in the spiderweb at the Broken Jaw!"

"/Fuck/."
>>
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>>46667250
Your bottle hasn't been filling faster than your blasts have drained it, but it /is/ still filling, and you've done quite a bit of damage.

But there's more where they came from, and they just keep swooping in.

> Make a break for Razor Feathers; maybe they'll scatter without their leader
> Free Amy up, she'll know how to end this
> ...Okay, this /one time/, you might actually need a skeleton army
> Write-in?
>>
>>46667166
Well, I can actually agree with you there. 1d100 rolling low with degrees of success is clearly the superior dice system when not dealing with /tg/ die.
>>
>>46667250
>> Write-in?
Ask the Hatchetman how much it would cost to get him to withdraw from the engagement.

Also,

> Make a break for Razor Feathers; maybe they'll scatter without their leader
>>
>>46667289
>> ...Okay, this /one time/, you might actually need a skeleton army

I wanna press the button so goddamn bad
>>
>>46667289
>> Free Amy up, she'll know how to end this

Local knowledge is our best bet.
>>
Being invited out for breakfast. I'll call when I return.
>>
>>46667250
> Make a break for Razor Feathers; maybe they'll scatter without their leader

Everybody go for her..
>>
>>46667289
> Free Amy up, she'll know how to end this
>>
> Write-in?
> Ask the Hatchetman how much it would cost to get him to withdraw from the engagement.

Seconding this. From what (little) we've seen so far the Hatchet Man is a professional. There's no passion in him.
Making him a better offer might actually work.

If he withdraws then Nate and Kat are freed up, which improves our odds of dealing with whatever else shows up a good amount.


That being said... ah right. Spider net at the bottom. From the giant spider. I knew there was something.
>>
>>46667508
Pretty glad we didn't choose to jump earlier.

That would have been a bad plan.

And hey, aren't we on better terms with the dwarves? Or did we trade their good will for a Draug.
>>
>>46667595
There's more than one clan. The guys that live up here work with Razor.
>>
>>46667289
>Ask the Hatchetman how much it would cost to get him to withdraw from the engagement.
AND
> ...Okay, this /one time/, you might actually need a skeleton army
whether we fight a retreating battle or not, we need to take the pressure off everyone.
>>
>>46667289
>> ...Okay, this /one time/, you might actually need a skeleton army
HARPY SKELETONS.
>>
>>46667289
> Free Amy up, she'll know how to end this
> ...Okay, this /one time/, you might actually need a skeleton army
> Write-in?
To the Hatchet man "I have resources from every floor from here to the surface, is she paying you enough to keep you from switching sides?"
>>
>>46667716
I read that as HAPPY SKELETONS.
>Having a bad day at the office?
>Going through a bad breakup?
>Or maybe you just need a quick laugh?
>BRI'S HAPPY SKELETONS are here to help!
>With a variety of skills guaranteed to make you laugh, such as:
>Juggling!
>Baloon animal creation!
>Slapstick!
>Stand-up comedy!
>Standing inside closets in clown attire!
>Bouncy castle set-up and maintenance!
>And they're also ball pit-trained!
>So what are you waiting for, call 1-800-VOX-DLQBRI now and get a free pair of jazz hands!
>>
>>46667289
>> ...Okay, this /one time/, you might actually need a skeleton army
The zombie armies thing was always a metaphor for letting ourselves get caught up in our power to the point where we lost respect for the living and the dead. It was never meant to prevent us from defending ourselves.
>>
>>46665513
Standard Vaelys reaction.
>>
>>46667289
>> ...Okay, this /one time/, you might actually need a skeleton army
YAAAS
>>
> ...Okay, this /one time/, you might actually need a skeleton army

Release then=m after they have seved and give thanks for their service.

Incidentally, a mercenary will never go back on a contract because then he looses all credibility.

Would you trust someone to stay bought if you could buy them out from someone else? All a merc has is his skills and his word. BUT that doesn't mean he won't surrender.
>>
>Take pressure off of Amy, she'll know how to end this

NO UNDEAD ARMIES
>>
>>46667289
>Fee Amy up, she'll know how to end this
>>
Guys come on, how many times have we said never to do this?

Zombie armies are against everything bri stands for!
>>
>>46668271
> Incidentally, a mercenary will never go back on a contract because then he looses all credibility.

Doesn't that depend on the mercenary?
>>
>>46668300

> Zombie armies are against everything bri stands for!

First of all, as anon said above, it's more of a principle and a metaphor than a strict literal prohibition.

Second of all, who said anything about zombies? This is a /skeleton/ army we're talking about here!

C'mon, get with the program!
>>
>>46668409
If this guy is as professional as he seems, there's zero chance.
>>
>>46668435
Raising the undead to do our dirty work seems to run against Brianna's character

Hell when given the choice to raise our own zombie servant we decided against it and went with vim and vigor instead
>>
>>46668300
I'm going to quote Sun Tzu here:

When on Death Ground, fight.

We are not being effective because of numbers and enemy skill levels, we're hideously outnumbered, everyone except Amy is ~sentenced to death~, and Amy is going to be Talon's fucktoy prisoner.

If Razor hadn't said "kill them all", I would be okay with trying for anything outside of a skeletal army. But she's not being reasonable, and she's specifically targeted Bri, meaning she has a good idea of what we're about. Talon sold us out, and we're literally caught between harpies and charybidis.

We are in desperate straits, and I, for one, am not interested in letting Amy be caught and imprisoned by anyone ever again.

They wanted this fight - I'm all for giving this fight to them.
>>
>>46668278
WE know how to end this. - with Razor Talons under our heel. The problem is no one can GET to her.
>>
>>46668552
Derp, Razor Feathers.
>>
>>46668520
But part of our character has been always finding another option, to avoid the easy way out.

I'm not saying some undead wouldn't make the fight a hell of a lot easier, but it would also mean an actual fight where a LOT of people die.

If there's still an option to end this with minimal amount of bloodshed, then I think Bri would take it rather then invoking necromancy
>>
>>46667289
>> Free Amy up, she'll know how to end this
>>
>>46668574
>to avoid the easy way out.

Or, in other words, to make things harder for ourselves than is really necessary.

(Yeah, avoiding zombie armies is good, but you gotta admit, Bri does have a tendency not to take the path of least resistance even when there's no real reason for it...)
>>
>>46667289
>Okay, this /one time/, you might actually need a skeleton army
>> Write-in?
"FUCK YOU. MY FAMILY WILL NEVER LET ME HEAR THE END OF THIS."
>>
>>46668574
If we have a big enough skeleton army, we can . . . .renegotiate so that less people die actually.

It's why we bombed the nips.
>>
>>46668574
She doesn't have to command the skeletons to kill people.

She can command them to clear paths, take hits, and otherwise get in the way - they don't even have to fight. It's a logistics issue, not a mortality issue. We need more things to get in the way.
>>
>>46668635
Well I can get behind the skeleton army as long as they're just body blockers. Maybe forming an undead wall to separate the murder from the dwarf reinforcements
>>
>>46668574
It's Bri's character to do what's right, and when that's not an option, to do what's needed. The right thing is a peaceful solution, but I don't see that happening, and I don't think it'd be respected if we managed it. The needed thing is our victory, and some level of control over the Roost. We can't do what's right, so we'll do what's needed.

Besides, I'm not sure what's so bad about raising skeletons that it's worse than rotting people to death.
>>
>>46668409
Willingness to go back on their word is the primary difference between mercs and thugs.
Mercs are professionals. That entails a degree of professional pride and respect. This is a career, not just a job.
>>
>>46668662
>Besides, I'm not sure what's so bad about raising skeletons that it's worse than rotting people to death.
Generally it's because rotting people to death is just a flavor of killing them. Killing happens all the time. It's perfectly natural and a part of the Way Things Are Supposed To Work.

Skeleton armies, well, aren't. Especially the "army" part, because doing that sort of thing en mass puts everything in a different context compared to just raising one or two.
>>
>>46667289
>>Take pressure off of Amy, she'll know how to end this

No Zombie Army.

That's a lot of life we don't want to spend. It also sets a terrible precedent.
>>
>>46667289
>Okay, this /one time/, you might actually need a skeleton army
Smash that button while cussing at the guys who are making you need to resort to this
>>
>>46668815
Ok this does raise a good point. A skeleton army will cost us bad, especially with the death draining effects of the Reach in play
>>
>>46668845
can we get clarification of how much energy/life span raising a skeleton army will cost us?
>>
>>46668815
>>46668845
>>46668856
I was under the impression that we would be calling up an ancestor to do the actual summoning. Bri isn't at the level of power to actually raise a shitload of skeles out of nothing.
>>
>>46668856
Using the Jug yo.

>>46668669

He said he isn't being paid enough to take on the Necromancer. Well, he's about to learn our group is a package fucking deal and he's gotta decide if his payment covers it.

Mercy are shot because if they stand to lose they just quit.

Besides, we can totes promise to kill his old boss and he can refund us her portion minus the initial retainer.

And also not kill him
>>
>Take pressure off of amy with skeletons
>>
>>46667289
>> Free Amy up, she'll know how to end this
>> Write-in (The hatchet man deal)
>>
>>46667289
> Free Amy up, she'll know how to end this
Settle this by their rules OF NATURE!
>>
>>46667289
>>> Free Amy up, she'll know how to end this
>>> Write-in (The hatchet man deal)
Yeah Seconding, having hatchet man frees up nate and Kat
>>
>>46667289

> Free Amy up, she'll know how to end this

As much as i want a skeleton army.This would cost Bri to much. And i bet the ancestor anwserong her would be Mark. I don't want Mark controlling Bri while we are in the Roost.
>>
>>46667289
>>> Free Amy up, she'll know how to end this
>>> Write-in (The hatchet man deal)
Fucking 4 chan keeps eating my post, Seconding this, having the hatchet frees up nate and Kat to fight other people.
>>
Aaaand that's why I hate whiny, salty anons. I didn't have the patience to keep reading, made my brain cells want to commit suicide.

I only have three things to say;
>Vox was correct in warning us away from a bad choice. Using rot was not much different from throwing a fireball. Shit's dangerous and indiscriminate, yo.
>The story has been fun and interesting, why get pissy over one tiny detail? It's like a roller coaster; you know where it ends, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy the ride.
>We've been going without any dice-rolling since the beginning, but you want the quest to suddenly change /now/. THIS IS THE FATE WE CHOSE. If more anons actually wanted to use dice, we'd vote for it.

I feel like all of this should be obvious, especially to someone who says they've been reading and participating in the quest.

>>46667289
>Free Amy up, she'll know how to end this.
Can we drop some magical darkness for Nate? It would mean that Kat can't back him up, but he'll have an advantage over the Hatchet Man (he can probably anticipate the Hero's moves, but not that his sword is /alive/ and can move on its own).

I've got some stuff to do, but then doodle time.
>>
>>46667289
> Make a break for Razor Feathers; maybe they'll scatter without their leader

Also, I did it Vox, you crazy lich. I finally got through the archives! It's gonna be really weird waiting for updates like a normal person.
>>
>>46669482
I know right?
>>
For those of you wondering, "Good lord, how long can breakfast take?" the car broke down. On the other hand, good times were had.

>>46669482
Welcome to the quest, my friend! Anything in particular stand out on your journey here?

Called, tallying, writing. Since we've got a strong sub-current for the negotiation write-in I'm gonna include it with the winning option.
>>
>>46669437

Fully agree with you there. Never thought I'd see someone get so pissy about being warned away from throwing a grenade at the guy your boyfriend's in a fistfight with.
>>
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>>46667289
That was a narrow-ass vote.

"Charge for Amy, John," you order. "We need her out of that flock."

You tap the draug with your bone wand while you scoop up your bottle; fingers crack and enlongate into true claws, sharp and vicious. He growls in a mixture of pain and anticipation before sprinting for Amy.

You throw a glance at the Hatchet Man and yell over the din. "What's the price for you to leave this fight and not come back?"

"I'd have to kill my way out," the older human drawls. He pulls a metallic spike from his belt and drives it into Kat; it flares with dwarven rune-craft, pinning her into place. "I would be fighting for you."

"Price?" you demand.

"JUST KILL HER!" Razor Feathers shrieks.

"My Heart's Desire," the Hatchet Man murmurs, his eyes distant.

> Deal
> No deal
>>
>>46670329
>> Deal, as long as it doesn't require the harming of innocents.
>>
>>46670364
>> Deal, as long as it doesn't require the harming of innocents.
Seconding. We really need to stop trying to negotiate with people when we're desperate. It doesn't give them a lot of incentive to actually tell us what they want.
>>
> Deal, as long as it doesn't require the harming of innocents.

I'm in as well. This guy... I am curious about him. I do not thin that he desires power or pointless cruelty. He is seeking something. Possibly for decades.

Let us see where his path leads.
>>
>>46670329
>> Deal, as long as it doesn't require the harming of innocents.
He is looking for something or someone.
>>
>>46670329
>Deal, as long as it doesn't require the harming of innocents.
So far he's been nothing but cold, efficient and professional, I'm kind of curious about what his heart desires.
>>
>>46670329
>No deal

This is very badly worried
>>
>>46670329
Just throwing it out here but what if his heart desire is something we really can't deliver on? Is it good idea to just agree to whatever he's thinking of carteblanche?
>>
>>46670329
>No deal

it is really bad to agree to things carte blanche
>>
I have a feeling that if we go with the 'no innocents' thing it'll turn into a 'how do you define innocent' thing.

Also sneaky way of getting us to finally take on a fourth party member, Voc.
>>
>>46671119

If it's "can't", that's his problem. Worst case scenario, we get to fight him /without/ all the backup when he finds out.

If it's "won't"...well, that's why we've got the "as long as it doesn't require the harming of innocents" clause in there. Pretty much anything short of that we should be willing to provide, even if we're not thrilled with the idea.
>>
>>46671331
but that would mean us breaking our word. that's a bad thing reputation wise
>>
>>46671402

What would? Not delivering on something we're /physically incapable/ of delivering on?

I think that generally, the type of people who we would be worrying about our reputation with in the first place would get more of a message of "the Hatchet Man makes unreasonable, impossible demands."

Unless someone's just going to spread propaganda about us using that as fodder ("they promised the Hatchet Man X, and didn't do it for him!"), and, well...if they're going to try and smear us that way, they'll find a way to do it, no matter what we say or do here.
>>
Called, writing, likely last update before I have to go to work; I'll return from Gainful Employment just after 7 PM EST.
>>
>>46669927
I've really enjoyed how much you come through as a person during the quest. I guess QM'ing allday errday will do that to some extent, but a fair number of quests that I follow tend to have more reserved QM's. Otherwise, the quality has been amazingly consistent, and the characters and setting have really grown on me. You have always seemed really open to whatever sort of quest the players wanted.Your world building has been a delight to experience, and the character interactions have been really nice. I especially liked when we controlled the Baron's POV- I always enjoy fucking myself up a little bit.
>>
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>>46670329
"I won't hurt innocent people to get it," you warn him. John reaches the mass of harpies around Amy and hurls two from the whirling press; you follow up with a blast of rot that hits them before they knew what happened.

You need to refine your technique. You're wasting power.

"Granted," the Hatchet Man agrees, nonplussed.

"KILL HER DAMN YOU!"

"Deal," you call out. The older human kicks aside the spike that's restraining Kat and whirls towards the tunnel through which the dwarves are going to advance.

"I'll hold them," he says simply, striding foward.

"TALON, YOU PROMISED EASY PREY!" Razor Feathers shrieks. You could almost pity her; the wild fear in her eyes is more like an animal than anything.

"I deliver," Talon's voice calls, from far too close.

> Duck
> Dive
> Counterattack

AND

> Remain Brianna la Croix (No Good Deed Goes Unpunished)
> You are Nathan Bookchild (Valor Is Its Own Reward)
> You are Amy the Dungeonbreaker (What Falls May Rise)
> Your are Diving Shadow (Home Is Where The Heart Is)
>>
>>46671713
> Duck

> You are Amy the Dungeonbreaker (What Falls May Rise)
Murderbird time.
>>
Thread archived, votes remain open. I'll be back at around 7:30 PM EST or so; I'm gonna walk to work, which means I'm leaving /now/.

Questions, comments, discussion, feedback, and criticisms remain, as always, both welcome and appreciated.

Thank you all for reading and participating!
>>
>>46671713
>Counterattack
We do still have that Ghost-walk thing, right? Let's see if its viable in combat.

>>46671713
>You are Amy the Dungeonbreaker (What Falls May Rise).
>>
>>46671713
>Counter attack
>> You are Amy the Dungeonbreaker (What Falls May Rise)
>>
>>46671713
> Counterattack
> You are Amy the Dungeonbreaker (What Falls May Rise)
>>
>>46671713
>> Duck
Don't do anything foolish at this point.

>> You are Amy the Dungeonbreaker (What Falls May Rise)

Time to stab that backstabber right in the back!
>>
>>46671713
> Dive
Eh, I'd rather deal with him from a distance
> You are Amy the Dungeonbreaker (What Falls May Rise)
Birb time
>>
>>46671713
>> Counterattack
>>
>>46671713
>you are nathan book child
>>
>>46671713
>> Dive
Amy will catch us, maybe.
>AND
>> Remain Brianna la Croix (No Good Deed Goes Unpunished)
no running
>>
>>46671713
>Counterattack
> Your are Diving Shadow (Home Is Where The Heart Is)
>>
Two and a half hours and change to call.
>>
>>46671713
>Dive
>You are Amy the Dungeonbreaker (What Falls May Rise)
>>
>>46671713
>Duck
>Remain Briana LaCroix
>>
>>46671713

> You are Amy the Dungeonbreaker (What Falls May Rise)
>>
>>46671713
> Counterattack

> You are Amy the Dungeonbreaker (What Falls May Rise)
>>
One hour and change.
>>
>>46671713
>> Duck
"Dive" could too easily be "off the platform" which would be bad.

> You are Amy the Dungeonbreaker (What Falls May Rise)
This is Amy's show.
>>
>>46671713
> Duck
Hunting Talon thinks he is a shounen character, calling his attacks.
> You are Amy the Dungeonbreaker (What Falls May Rise)
>>
Home, called, tallying, writing. At that point I'll be driving to a friend's place to get out of the house for a bit; as a result, the vote on this update will be extended.
>>
>>46669437
> I hate salty anon

> Proceeds to dig a salt mine after everyone has moved on

Then again, here I am responding to your bait by asking dice killed your parents or something, Jesus Christ. It was one of many suggestions that had lukewarm support at best.

And yeah Vox fucked up because rot magic sure as hell isn't a fireball, and instead of describing what it would do he told us that it was a bad idea which is something you NEVER do for narrative games when players are making a decision.

I'm glad you decided to keep this shit posting going, but you know Vox isn't going to jump on your dick for this right?

Fucking. Namefags.
>>
>>46677501

First off, Kong's an artfag, they're some of the few allowed to namefag.

Second, it was a fucking write-in. It's not like he gave us three choices and then when people voted for the third said "Voting for the third choice is a bad idea". Would you be getting this pissy if someone wrote in "suck John's dick" and he said that was a bad idea?
>>
>>46677850
Yeah, that's totally an equivalent situation. But hey, if people wanted to vote for it then let them. Or are we suddenly not allowed to make bad decisions? Voxs job is to describe the situation neutrally so the players can determine if something is a bad decision or not.

> Artfags are allowed to Namefags

What is this, Tumblr? Then he should take off his name when he wants to shit post like a salty little bitch.
>>
>>46677963
It's Vox's job to run a quest that people enjoy. That's it. Now, if you're not enjoying that particular decision, great, glad you've made that known. I'm sure Vox appreciates the feedback. Now drop it and let us get on with the quest.
>>
>>46671713
No time to draw your blade; you whirl with the cane, lashing out with the black oak wood.

Talon had been expecting scared prey. His claws are low, to catch your shoulders in the midst of a duck that didn't happen, and your cane cracks his jaw. The harpy hits you with the full force of his body, unable to pull up in time, and the two of you tumble in to a flurry of punches and curses.

Your stone jug rolls away, but that's okay.

You still have a knife.

* * * *

You are Amy the Dungeonbreaker, and the fact that you're going to go down in Roost legend would be a lot more pleasing if you weren't /furious/.

Orders from Razor Feathers or no orders, you're pretty sure these harpies are trying to kill you. Taking people alive is not something the Roost is particularly good at, and their blood is up. You whirl, Soaring Song serving more as shield than wings, and screech your fury with every set of talons that scrapes uselessly off of your prosthetics.

He /dared/. He /fucking dared/!

Your mother is in the air, trying to keep more reinforcements from descending into the fray. Diving Shadow is well-named; for all that she's tailed by four or more harpies at a time, they're powerless to stop her from picking off the slow, weak, and inattentive.

You turn sharply and fold your wings to block an attack you feel more than hear. Talons start to scrape - and then are abruptly yanked away. There's a wet, strangled sound of pain, which is swiftly joined by more when you throw your knife-edged wings open.

There's a hole out of the press.

> Take it while you can
> You can finally hit back; get to work with Blame
> Help your mother
>>
>>46678327
TFW I forgot to add

> Write-in?

As an option. They are of course welcome.

I'm bouncing to said friend's house now, likely gonna secure some dinner while we're at it. Calling in, say, 90 minutes or so, but don't quote me.
>>
>>46678301
Nigga, you a bitch. I see you can't refute shit, and are falling back on the "muh enjoyment". Vox is very vocal and receptive to feedback and honestly this has already been discussed with him, so let's both be very clear that since the namefag started this up again in order to prove his devotion we've just been shit posting.

Together.

The two of us like lovers of filth rubbing shit all over this quest. But you can stop it, just stop replying and let me have the last word.
>>
>>46678327
>> You can finally hit back; get to work with Blame

Talon fucked up big time, the only scenerio where he kills us gets him offed by extension, and he doesn't have an angel to reform his body later.
>>
>>46678327
>> You can finally hit back; get to work with Blame
>>
>>46678327
>You can finally hit back; get to work with Blame
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD.
FEATHERS FOR MY FLUFFY PILLOWS.
>>
>>46678327
> Write-in?

Use it to get height for a quick moment regardless of what we do. Yeah, I remember when you were talking about Arial combat and how height = advantage.

Then help your mother. She's your wingman. You're Mavrick and she's your Mother Goose.
>>
>>46678531
Blame explodes. There will be no feathers, only FURY.
>>
>>46678531
I want Amy to scream something to that affect so bad.

"BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, TALONS FOR THE CORPSE THRONE."

Or something suitable for this setting. Time to Khorne it up
>>
>>46678407
stop shitposting namefag
>>
>>46678627
Desu senpai.
>>
>>46678407
Uh, anon, I'm the anon you replied to, but I'm not the anon you've been arguing with.

>>46678327
> You can finally hit back; get to work with Blame
Let's thin the numbers.
>>
>>46678824
Shhhh, is only smells.

Smells of shit posting.

I know you're all just Vox rotating IPs anyways.
>>
>>46678327
> You can finally hit back; get to work with Blame

/Does/ Bri have a knife? She gave her grandpa's up to the Lady of Ravens, yeah?
>>
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>>46678858
No, YOU'RE Vox.
>>
GOD, is Bri pregnant yet?
>>
>>46678858
I personally believe that every person on 4chan is the same person.
>>
>>46679608
Even yourself? That... does not imply great things about your mental health. Although I suppose you wouldn't be any worse off than the rest of us.
>>
>>46679447
Yeah bro, we used it to slice up the Mantis.

>>46679726
Wait, if you're not the same person as yourself THEN WHO ARE YOU?

Skinwalker! Skinwalker!
>>
>>46678361
>Get to work with blame
>While fighting speak, vent your anger about the state of the roost and how bad things have gotten, and how good things could be
>"Think of all the blood we're spilling fighting each other, while snakes crawl into our nests and eat our young! While the undead move their way up and up, taking more and more of us for MEAT!
>YOU IDIOTS! You're so goddamn concerned with fighting that you can't work together against the REAL enemies
>>
>>46679844
And that makes the roost WEAK. WEAKER THEN ANY OF THE OTHER LEVELS OF THE DUNGEON. The chain holders didn't need to conquer us, we just rolled over and showed us them our bellies!
>>
>>46679844
>>46679876
supporting this.
>>
>>46679844
>>46679876

Supporting these.
>>
>>46678327
>> You can finally hit back; get to work with Blame

Murderbird needs to get her murder on.
>>
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>>46679506
WE ARE ALL VOX. WE ARE ONE IN HIS HOLY VOXNESS. DENY THE CAUSTIC STING OF SENTIENCE, AND BECOME WHAT YOU KNOW YOU ARE.
>>
>>46680627
WE ARE VOX! WE ARE LEGION
>>
In retrospect, i should have expected this mpre than a week ago.
>>
God that was glorious. Called, writing.
>>
Bumpity bump.
>>
>>46681713
Has the lich returned to his crypt?
>>
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>>46678327
You take one look at the chance to escape the press and disregard it. These harpies aren't the only ones with their blood up.

|IDIOTS, ALL OF YOU!| you screech. You swat one lunging harpy down with a flick of your wing and lash out with Blame, knowing full well the inevitable and awful result. Hungry flames consume your victim, scorching her wings and scattering the harpies near her in terror.

You lunge, swiping with the burning blade. The victim that leaps back isn't fast enough to escape your wing's slash. |LOOK AT YOURSELVES!|

All of a sudden, no one wants to get near you. You lunge at a harpy and she scrambles away, terror in her eyes.

You can see Brianna grappling with Hunting Talon. Both are bleeding and furious, snarling as they jockey for position. The Hatchet Man is...killing...dwarves?

Too much anger to be confused.

|RAZOR FEATHERS!| you scream over the din.

|Don't speak to me, degenerate| Razor Feathers snaps. |You /dare/? You use flame on your own, your allies tear our wings from our backs, and you dare to act righteous?|

> I don't need to be righteous
> Yes I fucking dare!
> This Roost is /mine now/.
> You're weak, Feathers, and you lead weak people.
> Write-in?
>>
>>46683621
Nah, just having trouble focusing on writing after the long drive and wonderful dinner. Plus, y'know, kinda tired, etc.
>>
>>46683634
>> Write-in?
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!
>>
>>46683634
>Yes I fucking dare!

DON'T LECTURE US! YOU'RE THE WOMAN WHO DECIDES TO AMBUSH US ON A PEACE TALK!
>>
>>46683634
> Write-in

"I don't need to justify my actions to a deadwoman."
>>
>>46683634
> Yes I fucking dare!
>>
>>46683740
Support
>Yes I fucking dare!

DON'T LECTURE US! YOU'RE THE WOMAN WHO DECIDES TO AMBUSH US ON A PEACE TALK!
>>
Okay, I'm a bit tired and drunk to update; I'll hit this in the morning. Votes remain open.

Questions, comments, discussion, feedback, and criticisms remain welcome and appreciated.

Thank you all for reading and participating!
>>
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>>46683634
>"SELFISH FOOLS! Snakes steal our children, undead hunt our kin, our people starve, and all you care about is squabbling over station and prestige!"
>"BLIND COWARDS! You fear change, so you would rather live in hell. The sky is our inheritance, but you hide away in your dank pit."
>"RAZOR! TALON! You think you desire power? I have seen true power; it is an awful, terrible burden, only carried by those with the strength of spirit to wield it. Not for themselves, but for others."
>"They work tirelessly to build a better world for those in need. The pain, the sorrow, the sacrifice, all to do what is right. You cannot even begin to understand what that means."
>"You do not deserve such power. You do not deserve to lead. YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO CALL YOURSELVES CHILDREN OF THE RAVEN!!"

*angry bird noises*
>>
>>46684142
I like this. Let's use this!
>>
>>46683634
>Supporting this: >>46684142 Let our wings amplify our righteous fury!
>>
>>46683634
>>46684142

Supporting
>>
>>46684142
Then Blood for the Blood god?
>>
>>46683634
> You're weak, Feathers, and you lead weak people.

> You want the only righteousness to be strength? Because me, and my people, we're stronger than you could ever believe.

> This your your righteousness thrown back at you, and you will kneel before my strength. We tried my righteousness and you betrayed us before we even spoke. Kneel, or die wingless and burning.
>>
>>46684515
Nah, this is hypocrisy for the hypocrisy god. You don't get to moralizing at people right after you break one of the few taboos they have and lead a slaughter.

It's like talking shit to a murderer while fucking their toddler.
>>
>>46684515
Ohohoho yes. It is time for a righteous asskicking. So, I guess it's Blood for Red Troth?

By the way, if Red Troth /made/ the harpies for the Lady of Ravens, does that make him their divine father?

>>46684580
Not at all. You can bet your ass that Razor Feathers would be throwing flaming molotovs and dumping burning oil, if not for the fact that feathers and fire don't mix. She's just a power-hungry bitch who's backpedaling now that her plans are going up in smoke.
>>
>>46684580

Oh, you're still around.

Feathers invited us to a peace talk as a pretext to murdering us and leaving Amy as a sex slave for Talon. Her murder went along with this. We've been acting entirely in self-defense; the fire was only used as shock-and-awe against opponents that surrounded us and outnumbered us about 20:1. Notice that we only killed one after they'd stopped trying to gangbang us (and the narration is unclear if he was still attacking us or one of the ones who'd 'recoiled in terror' from the burning one) and didn't pursue the one that fled.

We aren't being hypocrites for calling her out on her shit, nor are we leading a 'slaughter'. We certainly aren't fucking any toddlers, or whatever equivalent crime you apparently believe us guilty of committing in this situation.
>>
File: I care, Anon.gif (6.77 MB, 650x441)
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>>46684693
Yeah, but the point is that we did it first so it's a little late to claim the moral high-ground.

We should instead be claiming that we're a better her, since that's how she wants to play.

>>46684751
Nigger, using fire is war crimes territory to Harpies apparently. Since they don't seem to really have any other restrictions on how to act, when you break one of the few rules they do have it's going to be seen as pretty abhorrent.

Two wrongs don't make a right, this isn't "punching up" or any gay shit, this is Amy violating a major taboo. You can't go "I'm so much better than you" when you're in the filth with them.

> Oh, you're still around.

If you're going to start shitposting, at least have the decency to use a smug anime face. Or kill yourself, you know it's the right thing to do.
>>
>>46683634
>> I don't need to be righteous

Amy's all about the practical shit, she isn't the Hero or anything.

She's just not absolutely terrible like the rest of the harpies.
>>
>>46684515
> Big moral speech about being better people

> Followed by "Let's kill them all!"

You guys confuse me a lot sometimes. Is this like when Paladins kill Orc Babies?
>>
>>46684937
Actually, Razor Feathers is the one who said 'kill them all' first.
>>
>>46685024
Yeah, it's just that it's the same people who want Amy to claim to be better than Razor Feathers to turn around and do the exact same thing.

Whatever. Y'all vote for it, we can be a hypocritical character as well.
>>
>>46683634
> This Roost is /mine now/.
By blood and by bone, By fire and purge.
>>
>>46684937
Well I'm against any option that's kill them all
>>
Just asking but we're going to be pushing the mercy line right?

Basically our message is- stop fighting us, we don't really have any reason to be killing each other except for stupid cultural ones.
>>
>>46685204
So am I. I'm just also against any option that dicks about trying to moralize them at the moment. Hell, we even went "Skeleton Army" earlier.

We've past the moral high-ground stage. We just have the regular high-ground. Which is still pretty awesome.

I guess I would just prefer something that's more in the tone of "I tried to be nice, now I'm trying what works." instead of talking shit about being selfless.

Really, everything up to

>"SELFISH FOOLS! Snakes steal our children, undead hunt our kin, our people starve, and all you care about is squabbling over station and prestige!"
>"BLIND COWARDS! You fear change, so you would rather live in hell. The sky is our inheritance, but you hide away in your dank pit."
>"RAZOR! TALON! You think you desire power? I have seen true power; it is an awful, terrible burden, only carried by those with the strength of spirit to wield it. Not for themselves, but for others."

is good.
>>
>>46685272
yeah seconding that
>>
>>46683634
>>46683740

Going with this.

>Yes I fucking dare! DON'T LECTURE US! YOU'RE THE WOMAN WHO DECIDES TO AMBUSH US ON A PEACE TALK!

Short, simple, can be screamed in battle without getting shanked while monologuing.
>>
>>46685290
It has the nice option of seguing into "If saving my friends and family means talking it out, I'll do that. If it means turning every last one of you into a torch, I'll do that too. It was your choice when you betrayed the talks."
>>
>>46683740

Supporting this as well.

Don't bring up morals if you act like this. You do all this horrible shit on a regular basis and without care, but FIRE is where you draw the line? THAT's beyond the pale?
You might wanna take a step or ten back, Razor Feathers.
>>
>>46685305
I assume the harpy aversion to fire comes from the whole "feathered wings" thing and being a cripple "wingless" in a strength society is probably considered to be a fate worse than death.

So, you know, the equivalent of using white phosphorous or flamethrowers IRL.

It's fucking horrifying.
>>
>>46685465
If they can live in a murderous shit hole and employ the fucking hatchet man in good conscious they can deal with a little bit of fire.

>B-but warcrimes

Fuck these harpies, I hope all their eggs get eaten by snakes.
>>
>>46685484
>If they can live in a murderous shit hole and employ the fucking hatchet man in good conscious they can deal with a little bit of fire.

Uh, just pointing out that WE are now employing the Hatchet Man.

Anyways, yeah, if they want to be immoral we're actually better at that than they are so maybe they should rethink what rules they want to play by.
>>
>>46685499
I can't tell if sarcasm or not, fucking hell what has my life turned into? Being so cynical I can't tell if faggots on the internet are agreeing with me or trying to make a joke.

Oh right, uh, kill the harpies!
>>
>>46685499
We aren't employing him 'in good conscience', though. We did it reluctantly, with a caveat, in order to keep him from fucking us up.

And I'll repeat that the fire thing was only done against overwhelming odds, in self defense; it was as much if not more to get them to back the fuck off as it was to actually kill the target.
>>
>>46685519
> Fantasy culture and race has different values than mine

I mean, I think they're pretty stupid values as well, but that doesn't mean that this made up culture and race that isn't even human will even have the tools to understand why I think it's stupid.
>>
>>46685541
IRL this would get people to kill your ass in revenge, and remove any consideration of you as a moral person deserving mercy.

Flamethrower crews didn't get taken prisoner, yo.
>>
>>46685580
We set ONE HARPY on fire. While they were attacking us alongside two dozen of their fellows.

If we were ONLY using fire, then you might have a point. If we'd attacked them, then you might have a point. If they hadn't themselves betrayed custom by ATTACKING US AT A PARLEY, you might have a point.

I'm not saying the harpies there will be willing to listen to us and/or will see what they've done as bad, but the reaction from the PLAYERS that somehow setting a single attacker aflame suddenly puts us in the absolute moral wrong is fucking baffling.
>>
>>46683634
> Yes I fucking dare!
>>
>>46685673
Well, I was trying to portray it from the Harpies point of view. I mean, Amy IS a harpy culturally, and she would have known about the whole fire taboo (a harpy pastebin so we would know this stuff would be awesome since it was just kind of dropped in but whatever).

Anyways, at best Amy is going to be seen "as bad as" Razor Feathers, at worst people will go "Razor Feathers did a shitty thing but holy fuck setting Harpies on fire is right out."
>>
Bump limit reached. Also, wow. I wouldn't think 'war crimes' would be a subject that'd come up (at least in regards to our party, some of the Chain-Holders are definitely guilty).

I'm just going to pitch something to you guys, so bear with me. Brianna can use necromancy to create rot and decay, and use that on /living targets/. She's /just/ used it on a harpy, and there's not much left of them but a stain on the floor. Obviously, if anybody managed to survive an attack like that, it would hurt. A LOT. They'd also be crippled, die slowly and painfully from infection (if it isn't immediately treated), or organ failure depending on where they got hit.

What is the difference between Amy throwing an enchanted axe and Brianna using necromancy?
>P.S. Nate is guilty of killing someone very painfully as well. Remember that male succubus from the Atheneum? The one whose spell got bounced back and ripped him apart?

My point is, it's all a matter of perspective. If the only weapon I have to defend myself is an ugly, pain-inflicting one, should I beat myself up for using it?
>>
>>46686014
The difference is that Amy is a harpy, and apparently Harpy culture considers using fire to be a big no-no.

I mean, there are PLENTY of abhorrent things you can do that aren't considered war crimes. It's the consensus to not do certain things that help define a culture and how they'll react to you.

Moral relativity y'all.
>>
>>46686368
Harpy culture, in the Roost anyway, also looks up to (both literally and figuratively) the most violent, ruthless, and bloodthirsty of their number. Sure, the Harpies that are having fire used on them will hate it, but to all the others that didn't see the fight and only hear about it? They'll hear about two harpies (plus a pair of humans, but who gives a shit about them, they don't even have wings) taking on a force of two murders (one of them the previous top murder) plus the hatchet man, all at once, and brutally killing them. Which is pretty much the definition of badass in the Roost.
>>
Look, it could totally be that Amy just fucked up her harpy cred by using fire.

Or maybe she hasn't.

I really don't know this fictional race's culture well enough to tell which is which. So arguing about it is sorta pointless, except the threads about to hit bump limit, so it's time to rev up those shitposts.
>>
>>46686014
>What is the difference between Amy throwing an enchanted axe and Brianna using necromancy?

Important question!

Is Brianna firing into melee?

that is a very important piece of background info I require before I respond.
>>
>>46686368
I'd like to hand this one off to an expert on the Roost, Diving Shadow:
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/46260459/#p46289279
> "It took me a long time to understand that it hurt," the harpy woman says quietly. "For long years, I told myself that was how it is. That things break, people die, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. That is the way of the Roost, Brianna. The puppet king of the Perch has never ruled. Death and sorrow reign here, in this place where mercy is a memory and grief is a weakness. I took Amy from this place for a reason. I am starting to think I should have done so far sooner."


Death rules the Roost, not harpy culture and certainly not consensus of the inhabitants. In the Roost, the rules are made by the one who is still alive.
>>
>>46686547
>harpies flock (heh) to new hell trying to buy some fire-enchanted weapons
>fire now reigns the roost
>>
>>46683634
>Yes I fucking dare!
She attacked during peace talks, for that she will die, by wraithsteel or if necessary by fire. No playing nice any more. And backstabbing harpies that attack 10:1 are not "our own" any more.

and also
>>46684142
>"SELFISH FOOLS! Snakes steal our children, undead hunt our kin, our people starve, and all you care about is squabbling over station and prestige!"
>"BLIND COWARDS! You fear change, so you would rather live in hell. The sky is our inheritance, but you hide away in your dank pit."
>"RAZOR! TALON! You think you desire power? I have seen true power; it is an awful, terrible burden, only carried by those with the strength of spirit to wield it. Not for themselves, but for others."
>"You do not deserve such power. You do not deserve to lead. YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO CALL YOURSELVES CHILDREN OF THE RAVEN!!"
Razor Talon is hurt by the rejection from Amy and I can understand that he probably believes he is in the right with his actions, but selling us out is a no go and I'm all for killing him for it.
>>
>>46683634
>>Yes I fucking dare!
>>
>>46685541
Anon, we still just employed a monster.

>>46686547
Ask the Allies from WWII Anon, it's only cool to break the rules if you win and win hard. To the point where you can force an unconditional surrender.

>>46686671
Hunting Talon. And personally, I'd be okay with just taking his murder away from him and kicking him out of the roost to go learn where he went wrong.

>>46686442
There are always inexcusable taboos in any society. And yes, people can and do break them and get away with it, but you gotta have status, money, and power to do so and even then it's not a guarantee that the mob won't turn against you.

>>46686487
NARRATIVE QUESTS! That's the hard part about making choices, is that we don't know enough about the setting.

I would have loved to have had the option for using fire to be something like "Fire is super effective, but Harpies hate it in equal amounts and it could cause problems with the peace process" as an option. Then we could have discussed if it was worth the risk, and ways to deal with or downplay the fallout. So long as it's not phrased as "Using Shame and Blame would be a bad idea here since Harpies consider using fire in war to be a taboo".
>>
>>46686766
>So long as it's not phrased as "Using Shame and Blame would be a bad idea here since Harpies consider using fire in war to be a taboo".

Oh, I see you don't understand.

Vox wrote in that part. So that harpy culture snafu is a-ok as it was one of Vox's setpieces.

Now if you had wanted to have Amy break the rules of harpy culture, then you would have gotten the big no no warning.
>>
>>46686800
I missed where he wrote that part.
>>
>>46686846
>Offered the choice to use the fire weapon with no commentary at all about the social ramifications of such an act that Amy would be aware of

>Proceeded to write out that choice

I guess you're just a blind motherfucker.

I mean, I think I vaguely remember one comment quite a while back about fire being the bane of harpies and bad juju, but I doubt Vox is setting up the punishment rack because we forgot one piece of his epic lore.

More than likely he just thinks breaking Harpy taboos sounded cool in this moment despite the tactical misgivings of such an act.

Remember though, you better not fucking shoot ranged into melee I swear to fucking God that's a horrible idea how could you even think about doing that holy shit what are you a retarded baby seal?!

>20 years later and I'm still mad
>>
>>46686870
Still mad about crescendo too?
>>
>>46686908
Nah, that was funny.
>>
>>46686766
>Anon, we still just employed a monster.
There is a big difference between
Razor Feathers to Hatchet Man: I have a job for you, it consists of ..., what is your prize?
and
Bri during combat: What do you want to stop trying to kill us.
Because the first is an offer of employment and the other is an act of necessity in self-defence. There is no fault on Bri's side. Hatchet Man is basically commiting extortion, although it's a bit more complicated because Bri started the talk.

>>46686908
Until the name of the wings was said in >>46678327 I couldn't remember which name won, because it always was just "Amy's wings". So much butthurt on both sides for nothing.
>>
>>46687008
But we're invading the Roost.

So can't Razor Feathers justify this ambush as self defense?

I mean really, ambushes are just the nastier type of plans during a war. Are you not going to ambush someone when your life depends on it?
>>
>>46687030
How are we invading? We killed undead and monsters, we never attacked a harpy or another civilized person.
>>
>>46687047
Because Bri came here with the express purpose of removing Dick's allies which Razor Feathers is or am I forgetting something?
>>
>>46687056
Oh, I didn't know Razor Feathers is an ally of Dick. Have we told somebody that's why we're here?
>>
>>46687066
I'm pretty sure Razor Feathers wouldn't be horribly murdering us right now if she thought we were just some niggaz passing through.

We've got the whole Heritor reputation thing going on
>>
>>46687008
Reminder that he charged us more because he would have to kill his way out.

Also that this dude can't be trusted.

Anyways, we still chose to have a monster work for us rather than killing him.

If he even is a monster, so far his characterization has been

> Hatchets. Mercenary.
>>
>>46686908
I could never be mad about crescendo. After all, I voted for us to meld the Wraithsteel and the Living Iron together for FIRE WINGS and y'all went with something else instead. We could have totally made a drink in Amy's honour and called it "The Dirty Phoenix" - Mango, Tequila, and Chamoy with Habenero on the rim. Comes with a rude hand gesture.
>>
>>46687257
Yeah, he can't be trusted and if his demands are outrageous we can still try to kill him. Although we might be lucky and "his heart's desire" (which strikes me as a strange term in this context) will be something with only personal worth to him and no cost to anybody else.
Of course it would have been great to kill him in the fight but it more looked like he would be the one winning so Bri was being pragmatic.
I'm curious how it turns out in the end.
>>
>>46687291
> "Stop playing with him," Razor Feathers snaps over the din. "Kill the boy and get the necromancer."

> "You aren't paying me enough to get the necromancer," the Hatchet Man answers calmly.

Not really a "threat" per se, moreso an "obstacle".

I was also the person who said "Throw everything at the Hatchetman right away" and who wanted to sacrifice John to pin him down.

Oh, yeah, we boosted the Draug with some bone claws and shit. Whoops.
>>
>>46683634
>> Write-in?
>>46684142
Supporting.
>>
>>46683634
>Yes I fucking dare!
>>
>>46683634

Supporting >>46683740
>>
At least we were (mostly) able to hash shit out before the next thread. I don't like bullshit clogging up quests. It just feels..dumb. Like, you can have your opinion and I can have my opinion, and we can agree to disagree, but then the other guy can't shut up about something that's totally minor when compared to all of this other stuff.
>>
Drama for the drama gods!

Also, this is what peace talks look like in the roost, after we've sorted out the fine nuances of troop deployments and alliances, as well as potential mercenary deals and personal boundaries, we'll be golden.

I mean look, Briana and Hunting Talon are having a very meaningful discussion about Amy and her rights as a free-thinking harpy right now.
>>
I'm awake.

Can I persuade an anon to tally votes while my PC boots up here? I do believe I need to start a new thread.
>>
>>46688184
I think insult other anons opinions won.
>>
NEW THREAD
>>46688378
>>46688378
>>46688378
>>46688378
>>46688378


SUCK IT VOX I POSTED HERE FIRST!
>>
>>46688393
Thank you my friend.



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