>http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/a-new-guard-for-asgard-iceland-building-first-temple-to-norse-gods-in-1000-years/article22743857/Icelanders will soon be able to publicly worship at a shrine to Thor, Odin and Frigg with construction starting this month on the island’s first major temple to the Norse gods since the Viking age.Worship of the gods in Scandinavia gave way to Christianity around 1,000 years ago but a modern version of Norse paganism has been gaining popularity in Iceland.
>>37857929I just can't wait 'tll they start raiding and pillaging again
I read about that. The comments from the "priests" make it sound like it's just gonna be more like Disneyland Norse Mythology edition than a place of serious worship.
>>37858000I could dig that.
>>37857929>Norse gods will get thier own watered-down worship>Zoroastrians are still a minor religion which almost no one remembers, and they only have a few scattered enclaves in India and some parts of USAThis is not ok
>>37858638>>37858000I can still dig the whole "The loss of art and music is the first sign of the end of human civilization' thing.
>>37858000Hard to say. Quite a few asatrufags are fucking nuts, and they're IN the association. It's not going to be what it was, but you can hardly expect that in this day and age.I look forward to YMPA.
>>37858638Blame Islam for that. Muhammad was the very face of Ahriman the Deceiver.
>>37858638thats because the countries where there are a lot of them tend murder them in the streets.
>>37857929This shit is not OK. They're pretty much atheists with a dash of pantheism. Motherfuckers think that the Gods are "embodiments of nature". Fuck Iceland.Love, your raiding, pillaging, friendly Asatrufag.
Yeah, regardless of how nutty these particular Asatru are, I think the rising trend of reconstructivist neopaganism is really cool.Of course, as a follower of the Religio Romana, aka a worshiper of the Roman Gods, I am very, very biased.
>>37859738Religio Romana is really strange to me. I haven't looked into it all that much, but isn't it suuuuper similar to Hellenism?
>>37858706Well, that is generally true from what we've observed.Arts get less organized and abstractPrices RiseMigrations/Wars kick upOrganized religions give way to mystic ritualsLarge scale ecological disastersThen BOOM Dark Age.
>>37859828Well, the OG Roman worship was rather different to Hellenism, focusing on household and family spirits. The big gods were the Empire's 'spirits' in a sense, in addition to their own, greek-derived portfolios. They also worshipped the emperor's genius.
>>37859887We might have a good war or two in Europe in 50 years time, so yeah. Time to stock up on canned heretic.
>>3786001190% of my veneration is to my ancestors, and what I don't get is that in most other "pagan" I despise that term, guh. religions, everyone focuses on their gods. Don't you think the gods have like, better shit to do? Correct me if I'm wrong, please. I'm still exploring other faiths alongside my own.
>>37859828Not really.Basically, the differences all stem along two lines;First, the Roman Gods predate their contact with Greece; Mars was first worshiped in his role as a fertility god; only later when warfare became endemic did the Roman people turn to him for his martial skill; he's in many ways the ideal citizen. Diana was a forest goddess before they ever heard of Artemis. And Jupiter was King before Zeus was ever heard of. The Roman Way to the Gods is a very accepting path; all gods are real, some are different expressions of our gods, some are foreign gods that might be worth worshiping, so when they encountered the Greeks, they saw their gods and adopted much of their mythology under the belief that they were similar. Largely because Romans of the time were huge Greekaboos. However, this was a flawed understanding in my view.Second; and to explain, the Romans venerated Virtue before all other things; duty, piety, honor, virtus, these are the things that mattered to them first. This is shown in the gods they, and I, worship; the Roman gods are paragons of their field; Jupiter is basically living virtue, hence being above all as Jupiter Optimus Maximus, Mars is the ideal citizen and soldier, Diana is the ideal hunter, Bacchus/Liber is the ideal of freedom, Priapus is the ideal penis, ect. In contrast, the Hellenistic gods are seen as expressions of nature and the Greek ideal of excellence of ability; Zeus is the ballsiest, most powerful person out there, but he's also a giant cunt.So I think the Greek gods and the Roman gods are one in the same, but that Hellenism misunderstands their inherent benevolence and virtue because they don't like acknowledging that good fortune comes to virtuous people and ill to others. Also, they don't like the ideal that the world isn't perfect.And it isn't. My gods aren't flawless; they're paragons, but ones that can very easily make mistakes.
>>37860118Also;>>37860011Also this, the Roman Way is very animistic; Lars, small gods, are everywhere. The Lars of the home and family are very important. The Pentares, the gods of the pantry, the Manes, my ancestors, all of these are worshiped very frequently.>>37860100With the Religio Romana, the gods aren't really human. They're gods. Sorta intelligent embodiments of nature, but not quite so... the gods are real and intelligent, they aren't just bloody metaphors, but they also aren't just assholes in togas. Jupiter is a lightning bolt as much as he is a man. We aren't supposed to bother them needlessly, but we are also supposed to live up to their examples, seek their wisdom by consulting them on important decisions, and generally keep them in our thoughts.You are supposed to venerate a small number that call to you more than others; though all gods are to be respected. I venerate Jupiter, Mars (I fight in armor in the SCA and love honor), Fortuna, Luna (I've always felt a connection to the moon), Liber (Freedom), Juno (respect for my mothers), and Vesta as the hearth goddess, along with my Manes and Lars.
Now work this into your next modern campaign.
>>37860267Isn't bringing one's religion into one's group kinda a no-no?
>>37860206The way it works in Asatru is that the Gods are like, in the middle on the scale of God to Human. They can die (and will), not omnipotent, not omniscient, but still waaaaay stronger than a human. The Gods have specific days they are supposed to be venerated. They get their time, and the ancestors, wights, vaetirr, get the rest. The Gods have their own shit to do, and that's why the whole idea of blót works. I give them shit, so they can focus on me for a second, then I get shit. Gift for a gift. Asatruar can choose a specific God to follow, but it's a super long process of building a relationship with that deity. Ancestors first, wights second, Gods last. The Icelanders consider the Gods to be nature metaphors, and that's what pisses me off about them, alongside this temple. If I ever visit the temple, I'd probably be mocked for being a hard polytheist. Fuckin' Iceland.
>>37860245*tips Mitre* would be better because that's an actual hat
>>37860314What exactly is a 'Wight' in Asatru? I don't want to bring any preconceived errors into my understanding from its use in fantasy literature, and I think some basic definitions are in order, if you don't mind.
>>37860206You seriously worship Roman gods? Man I haven't cringed this hard since watching Spirit Science.
>>37860314That's rather interesting. And irritating on the Icelandic part. The Norse gods aren't mine, but it seems a bit like... blasphemous, cultural appropriation. For the Religio, all gods are important, the reason the big ones get so much attention is just that; Jupiter is the Sky, he is Storms, and more. He's everywhere. Vesta is the hearth, she's literally in every home. Mars lives in the hearts of every honorable man, ect.Still, different gods. Though I swear Liber (Bacchus) hangs out with your gods on a regular basis.>>37860342It's be *tips toga* for me, since you are supposed to approach the lararium or any altar with one's head covered.>>37860395>filthy barbarian envy
>>37860373It's the same concept as a house spirit. They are spirits of the hearth, you leave gifts for them, your house is generally happier, don't leave a gift, house is generally sadder. The way I believe is that they own the house, not me or my family. There are land wights as well, which is what a vaetirr techinically is I believe. They are simply protectors of your house and land. And like the Gods, you gotta keep a good relationship with them through gifts.
>>37857987With no form of standing millitary, you'll probably never see that happen.
>>37860405The most irritating thing is that most new Asatruars consider Iceland to be something akin to Jerusalem. So, it's like "Hey look, Iceland is doing something! Let's copy it!" I have no gripes with Iceland, as long as they respect the idea of pretty much all other Asatruar outside Iceland, hard polytheism,
>>37860395I keep seeing the word cringe being used lately, is this some new reddit meme or something?
>>37860419Thank you. If I may ask another question:In reading about the Norse Gods, I see two groups mentioned. Aesir and Vanir (I think, I'm probably butchering the names). What's the difference?>>37860395Not as uncommon as you think. Christians have gotten away with teaching that all the polytheistic religions are extinct, but it's not true.
>>37857987>>37857987Most of that was just in response to christians invading their lands and torching their stuff, those weren't raids, they were defensive sorties from survivors trying to oust the invaders. But because the christians won majority control over the region, they got to rewrite the history books.
>>37860491Yep. There aren't a ton of Roman Pagans out there, but we do exist all over the world.It'd be nice if there were more. I remember reading about a plan for a temple to Magna Mater to be built, which seemed odd to me. I mean, she's a lovely goddess, but not one of the twelve most important. I'd make one to Jupiter first.
>>37860508I don't believe Christians ever invaded Iceland.
Speaking of cultural appropriation, can I just say how annoying it is that I can't wear the symbol of Mars without getting people irritated at me because his symbol is also the male symbol?The .I mean I can deal but yeesh.
>>37860491No, please. Keep asking questions, it's great to see people actually looking into Asatru and not mocking it as an edgy teenager phase.The Aesir are what you could call War Gods, they're all focused on everything that isn't fertility, sex, agriculture, the like.The Vanir are what I like to call the Sex Gods, because that's pretty much what they are. Freyr is said to have the biggest johnson on the planet, just to clarify about how these Gods are. To put a long story short, they fight, they make up, and create the new pantheon that is currently venerated today.
>>37860638Thanks. There was a lot of talk about marriages between the two groups and I wanted to figure out what the big deal was.
>>37860626Ares or bust m8.
>>37860508To emphasize this statement, pretty much every written piece of literature we have on the Gods right now is written by Christians. Poetic Edda? Snorri the Priest. Any of The Eddas for that matter? Christians. We have to go off of that, plus archeological evidence, and it's truly disheartening.
>>37860638>Freyr is said to have the biggest johnson on the planetGotta dispute that buddy, Priapus is the god of the dick, he wins.Also, I don't suppose you could go into detail on your daily rituals? I'm curious. I've got a friend who is a weird Asatru-catholic mix, great guy, but not super devout, and I'm interested in the differences.
>>37860685I'm sorry, but all Norse raids ever were not a reaction to Christian influence.
>>37860680>Aresoh come on, Ares is a mega super cunt because the Greeks were pansies. Ares isn't even a strong god, he gets locked in a big pot by giants and is helpless. He's probably just a powerful lars.Mars is the best war god.
>>37860676Oh yes, once they "made up", they pretty much just fucked and married. Good ol Norse pantheon, going to war, then marrying and fucking.Can I mention how we are having one of the most pleasant religous discussions I ever been in on a board about tabletop games?
>>37860707>oh come on, Ares is a mega super cunt because the Greeks were pansies.It's more like Greek and Roman culture were different. Ares is a pretty great war god in that brutal and bloody and he does stupid things a lot.This is your actual faith, so there's going to be no mileage to talk anthropology here at all, but the Romans liked their effective soldier gods and military cults and Mars was cut to fit.
>>37860688Daily things? Not much is considered standard things to, because of ordopraxy. Blot is a generally standard practice, but not daily. Some of us, like myself, meditate. Others may do Christian like prayer. Blot is pretty much an offering. I usually get up, meditate at my altar for 10 or so minutes, go replace whatever I left out for my house wight, and then go about my day. If I have my kindred over, we may hold sumbel. You get a drinking horn, pass it around and make toasts to the Gods, kin, or make an oath. Oaths are suuuuper complicated and scary as fuck if you don't live up to them. Your wyrd gets rekt.
>>37860720*shrugs* There's no reason to be a dick, so I'm refraining from being a dick. If you don't mind, I'd like to begin injecting some more culturally-accurate information on Norse mythologies into my settings. Is there anything in particular that D&D or other fantasy games have altered from their source material that you'd prefer to see in its original form?
>>37860479It's a pretty common word and the anon you're replying to used it correctly.
>raised as a psuedo-catholic/protestant (really just general Christendom, we switched churches constantly)>learn about all kinds of mythology, immerse myself in the studies of ancient and extinct cultures>love all religions/mythologies because of their interesting histories, interpretations, and fantastical natureIs there a word for worshipping all gods? Because that's probably what I'd be
>>37860701Not many were a reaction. Hel, it was more than likely just a thirst for sick loot. Some probably were a want to eliminate Christian control of the land, but with a focus on conquering and looting.
>>37860685makes it kind of silly to try and revive as a religioni can understand the roman guy, we have plenty of evidence for how the roman religion was practiced, much of it written by their own hands. but with germanic paganism there are just too many gaps.it's like how they can't bring back mammoths because they don't have enough of their DNA. that's the norse religion: it died and now there's not enough DNA to bring it back, so it's just dead, forever. and whatever people practice today is like a hairy elephant. it might look kind of similar, but it's not the same thing.
>>37860491>Christians have gotten away with teaching that all the polytheistic religions are extincthey, at least they dont say its evil. its hard being a santario.
>>37860803Huh, that's quite laid back. For us, ritual is a way of binding one's self to the gods, a sorta difficult but important set of tasks.I myself am not as virtuous there as I would like, but the pursuit of virtue is itself a great journey.>>37860754True.>>37860685The Religio is really lucky there, we have a lot of documents straight from the horses mouth, so to speak, because the Christian church sorta obsessed over some of our great thinkers, and ate up quite a bit of our ethical system.
>>37860809If you have a Viking-esque race, don't give them winged or horned helmets. Shit isn't real, if you wanna go for realism. Also, if you show an offering to the Gods being made, don't have them get drunk. Being drunk during blot, even though alcohol is commonly used, is unbelievably disrespectful. I am unaware of any real Norse mythology like things in DnD, but I am not a DM so I probably know jack shit compared to someone who is. Maybe all my groups avoid it because I'd point out exactly what's incorrect about it.
>>37860888No, they commonly say that too. I went to catholic school. When they did a state-mandated 'comparative mythology' class every chapter was 'well, these people believed in these gods, but they were actually worshiping satan disguised as those gods because anything that gets worship except god are satan'. Shit got real old, real fast.
>>37860888What is that, if I may ask?
Aren't most of these guys hard core white supremacists?
>>37860932Religio guy here, that's an interesting detail. Amusing thing, I have gotten drunk off of my religious libations (make offering of wine, very common offering, pour out some, drink rest) before, but I'm stone sober for at least an hour after the ritual.A biology thing, but still amusing. Plus, the gods are of the natural world, so their whim would be a natural law.
>>37860959Ethnocentric != white supremacist
>>37860926Honor is very important to an Asatruar. Blot and Sumbel are our two things we do, and every single Kindred will hold them differently. Asatru is very community based. Some of us hold blot every single day, and I'm amazed at how faithful they are, and how connected they are with the Gods. I think that if I did nothing but worship, then the Gods would be irritated because I wouldn't be contributing to my community.
>>37860959i got the impression that most of them are hippies.that's how 'neo-druidism' is here in britain, anyway. they don't even practice sacrifice, let alone ethnic cleansing.
>>37860989That's quite similar here; the Religio has Virtus, which is literally public virtue. Adding to my community is a vital thing.Honoring the gods through one's deeds is very vital indeed.
>>37860937santaria is sort of a mix of African and native beliefs from mexico and the Caribbean, with a layer of catholic painted on. originally that was to keep people from finding out that we wernt just saint worshiping bumpkins, now its tradition. it has a lot in common with voodoo due to the fact they came from mostly the same place.
>>37860959That is the Folkish side of Asatru, which I understand some views of. Most Asatruars are tribalist, focus on ancestors not ancestry. Does not matter your race, it matters on if you practice properly or not. If you can hold blot properly and you're black, you are welcome to be in my kindred. If you cannot and you're white, you are not a proper Asatruar. Same goes for any race.
>>37858638Theyre not making efforts to bring new people into the faith and have no desire to.
>>37861025The way I see it, and probably many others because most Asatruar are history buffs, You kind of have to be to get through all the reading, there's a reason it's called the religion with homework! because generally anything you can do to make your people work was good, in the ancient days. If you can do it through religion, woohoo! Any other ancient religion seems to have a community based focus.
>>37860932>winged or horned helmetsWell duh. I've been using pic related for their armor.Well, in DnD a 'Wight' is an undead monstrosity animated by black magic to prowl graveyards and slay anything that lives. I'm going to go ahead and assume that that's mildly offensive. Valkyries are depicted as female angels whose only job is selecting worthy dead off the battlefield. Most of the pantheon is ignored even in books that are supposed to list them as valid targets for Cleric worship. Is there anything about this you'd change?
>>37861115Valkyries is pretty much on the nail. A few are dedicated in Vahalla to being barmaids, but that wouldn't matter unless one of your PCs dies and becomes an einhadjur, (hope i spelled that right), which is pretty much a ghost soldier for Ragnarok. Wights is wrong, but I already talked about that. The main focus of the pantheon isn't any of the Gods. They should all be venerated depending on your job. If your a fisherman, focus on Aegir, a mage, Odin, a blacksmith, one of the Dwarves. But that would only work in ancient days. Modern day, I venerate them equally.
>>37861207So their priests should be very community-focused pantheists, respecting all gods equally?
>>37861055Which is kinda a thing in all polytheistic religions.I would love to have more followers of the Way to the Roman Gods, but I'm not gonna tell people to convert; perhaps their gods are better for them? The Roman gods are mine, not theirs, until they take them up. So I can only hope people will convert out of genuine interest on their own initiative, which is not very fast.Still, it is the right way, and that is far more vital than speed.
>>37861282First off, don't use the term priest. Proper term would be Gothi, and Gothi are essentially Kindred leaders. Kindreds are groups of Asatruar who get together to worship and create bonds. It's like a community of sorts. The Gothi is pretty much the leader. I would imagine in a temple, like this new one, a Gothi would be the leader of sorts. They should be as you said, very community focused pantheists, even though I don't think that's what that term means. They should worship every deity equally, unless the issue directly interferes with that God. Like, if a mage is failing at magic, he wouldn't ask every God for help, he'd ask Odin, as one of his domains is magic.
>>37861282>>37861349And just in case I didn't make this clear, EVERYONE can communicate with the Gods. You don't need to be a Gothi to hold a blot. You just need a vé, sacred space, and an offering. Something I've heard said, but I think is a weird saying is, everyone is their own priest.
>>37861349Well, the actual game system uses 'priest' and 'cleric' classes and such so MECHANICALLY they are priests, I'll just rename these to Gothi as a type of specialist priest.>>37861411I've actually heard deists use that line. I think Thomas Jefferson has a famous quote about 'religious authorities getting in the way of religious devotion' or something like that.
>>37861411Same with the Religio Romana, a priest is more a sacred holder of ceremonies than any sort of special emissary.Hell, you note how priests don't come up much in mythology? It is because almost everyone is some kind of priest. Sorta. Priests are, well, it varies, one part holder of ceremony and ritual, one part human honorary to the gods (read; living sacrifice), one part keeper of temples.The abrahamic tradition of priests as speakers of divinity is pretty odd, really.
>>37861516I have no gripes with that, the problem is just that so much of Asatru as been equated with Christianity over my years of it, that it's just one of my pet peeves to hear a Gothi get called a priest, because even though they are similar, there are notable differences. As in, a Gothi is your equal, but an adviser, and usually wiser than you are, especially when it comes to our religion. A Priest is better than you, always supposedly wiser, and you have to follow their advice. >>37861537Yeah, your Gothi is just the guy who created the Kindred, so you should, but you don't have to, listen to him. I am a former Gothi, and I would always begin passing the drinking horn for Sumbel, or I would do the opening statement for Blot.
>>37860508"Olaf the Skull-taker was a good boy, he dindu nuffin!"
>>37861643>I am a former GothiWhat happened, if it isn't impertinent?Also, the lucky thing about the Asatru is how many of you there are relatively, you dwarf any other pagan faith today save the Wiccans (nice people, but stay out of my faith and stop coopting my gods for your agendas)
>>37861725Kindred fell apart, I started a Kindred, it was around for about 5 years until the guys I started it with told me they decided that Asatru wasn't for them anymore. Joined a new kindred, they have had the same Gothi for like 10 years, and I didn't want his position anyway. Not that interesting of a story, is it?
>>37861797No, but thank you for sharing, and I'm sorry it happened.
>>37857929You know the Netherlanders reconstructed a Temple of the German/Celtic North Sea Goddess Nehalennia in 2005.http://www.nehalennia-tempel.nl/
>>37861725Oh and about Wiccans, I'm 100% OK with types of Wicca, except fucking electics who take my Gods. Sure, whatever, say my Gods are a different face of yours. I am comfortable with that, but you start worshipping Thor alongside Ra, and I have a gigantic problem with you.
>>37861847>worshipping Thor alongside RaOkay, what? I admit to knowing fuck all about the new pagan/heathen/not-abrahamic faiths outside the fact that a lot of Asatru are edgy teenagers and white supremacist that give bad name to the movement as a whole, which is sad, to be honest, but that doesn't sound logic. I mean. WHY?
>>37861847Yeah. I looked up a statue of Diana in a park in a city near where I live that I'm now planning on traveling to, and one of the websites that mentioned it was this sorta wiccan blog about some woman who kept going on about Diana as a goddess of "the sisterhood" and how she collapsed crying on before her and...eurgh.Most of the Wiccans I've met have been lovely people, but for the sake of the gods, don't... just don't steal them and start claiming they represent whatever you think sounds cool.It burns. And it pisses them off.
>>37861927Addendum; Diana is very much a goddess of women, so that's not wrong, it is more the way she went about it.
>>37861819do they actually hold services there, etc? reconstructed pagan temples aren't unheard of, but they're not generally used outside of historical curiosity. pic semi-related it's an actual roman temple
>>37861911Not that guy, but why not? If you worship gods as personifications of cultural attitudes or natural phenomena in the modern day, why should you see any distinction between pantheons?
>>37861911Never heard of Electic Wicca? Yeah, it's pretty much "You like heresy? We've got heresy!" It says you can worship whatever deity you want, considering they are all different faces of of the God and Goddess.
>>37861943>>37861927Kore > Diana.
>>37861944oooh, I need to hit that up some day. Pay respects to one of the last proper temples.>>37861955As much as I hate to ignite the usual misogynist bullshit /tg/ loves, here is an example."One time I went brokenhearted by myself to weep at Her feet and ask Her why the sisterhood of women is so scattered, so fragmented ...why is there so much competition, jealousy, betrayal, disconnection between us? What happened to the wonderful vision of women together in circles, safe, mutually supported, every voice honored and heard? And Diana answered me through my inward hearing. She said:"Women need to learn to walk strong alone before they can walkstrong together."Yes!! I thought. That explains so much. Women have been dependent on the system for so long and it has weakened many of us. We must develop the ability to survive, to love ourselves, to stand on our own, to walk our talk, to attend to our healing and our souls, to have good boundaries, to take risks for our truth, to pursue and reach our goals... all qualities embodied by the archetypal Diana/Artemis/Durga/Oya/ and other cognate Goddesses of cultures worldwide...She is the wild part of us that needs to be strong and free. "Not that Diana isn't a protector of women, but... Stop literally stealing my faith for your own ridiculously open ended beliefs. You can't just steal my goddesses while pretending they are other beings and ignoring the differences between them.>>37861968... Persephone? I mean, I like the cthonic gods, but there is more than one female deity you know, filling different roles.Plus, I'm looking to be a hunter, following local tradition, so Diana is an important goddess.
>worshipping losersChrist already beat the Norse gods
>>37861944I sadly don't know, I can't read Dutch and its just something I heard in the News.However from the looks of it, they are mostly into Education about Antique History.
>>37862071Kore is pretty much the oldest Greek goddess and the oldest part of what would eventually become Greek religion. She predates Hades and Demeter, who would eventually leach out her identity.Hecate is a pretty old goddess too.
>>37862071Here's what it all should come down to.Religion and politics need to stay FAAAAAAAAAR away from each other. When they mix, you get horrible things like ISIS, Varg Vilkner or whatever the fuck his name is, and just general extremism, that Christian guy who blew up abortion clinics. Asatru is so bombarded with idiotic racists, white supremacists and neo-Nazis. Religion and politics are always bad when they meet.
>>37862155>Varg Vilknerwho? Never heard of him and a google search just brings up pokemon references on deviant art for some reason.
>>37861954Because each God has a different cultural background. Their myths, and rites, are defined by said backgrounds. Of course, you can worship Gods of similar backgrounds. I guess people wouldn't have a problem if you worshipped Tyr (norse god of war, I think) and the Morrígna (Irish war goddesses, Macha, Neamhain and Badb, if I'm not wrong), but Ra and Thor... I just can't see how you can worship both of them and maintain any semblance of religious seriousness. It's like those people who speak English and throw Spanish, Japanese or Italian words just because. They don't need to use those words, but they use it nonetheless.>>37861955That sounds awful. As I said before, I can sort of understand that if you worship deities from two pantheons with sort of similar cultural backgrounds, like Hellenic and Roman, or Celtic and Norse (this one is really stretching it, right?). But taking gods from any religion and worshipping them as if they were from the same...No, just no.
>>37862197Varg Vikernes. Some dude who did awful things because "Christianity has killed our race" or some shit like that.
>>37862197I don't think I spelled his last name right, but he is an "asatruar" who went around Norway and burned churches down because "of thousands of year of oppresion". He burned down churches that were formerly heathen temples, and ruined so many artifacts from then, because they were in Christian hands. Fuck Varg. He leads a movement called Odalism, so you'd be able to find out more through there.
>>37862229>"Christianity has killed our race"He never said that, he said that christianism has destroyed pagan culture which he considers the true european culture.
>>37862135Ah. I don't know a lot of the names of more obscure greek gods, so, I had to turn to wikipedia, always embarrassing.Unrelated but interesting note; An example of the original Roman gods vs. Greek is Apollo; the Romans had no god like Apollo, so when they encountered the Greeks, they liked him so much they took him as their own god.>>37862155Yeah. Obviously one's beliefs should shape one's action but...Best to keep political beliefs and religious beliefs separate in groups and such.I fully support taking the auguries before important political decisions, but I don't really have any interest in people blathering about fiscal policy when I'm sacrificing. Rather the opposite.(slightly drunk on libations, forgot to eat before that glass of wine)
>>37862267>Romans had no god like ApolloThe etruscans had a god called Apullu which is believed to be the same.
>>37862210I don't agree with those who combine Celtic deities and Norse ones under the same practice. Those who separate them, I can respect. What I mean is, you wouldn't hold blot for a Celtic god, and you wouldn't do whatever Celtic recons do for Odin, you practice them both 100% separately. Most Electic Wiccans do mix the two and hold blot to Ra or whatever deity of their choosing. It literally makes me sick to my stomach thinking about holding blot to a God not of Norse religion. I understand doing whatever Kemetics do to offer, but don't use my tradition to offer to Gods not of my troth.
>>37862243pic related.They ain't subtle about this.
>>37862285That name seems suspiciously similiar, but I am unfamiliar and would not know.It is possible, in that case, that they took the Etruscan god, and then took the Greek name due to similarity and their general obsession with greeks.
>>37862243>>37862312>>37862229OK, so tl;dr: some mentally defective cockmongler using the trappings of your religion to do something really, really stupid. Duly noted.
>>37862155Thanks for sharing your point of view throughout the thread, it's been interesting reading.>Varg VilknesVarg Vikernes; he's stopped playing black metal and burning churches, but his opinions are still far removed from the mainstream. If anyone's interested in his current views, see http://thuleanperspective.com/Or don't, if you don't want to give him pageviews.
>>37862303I didn't mean using the same rites for both of them. I meant using the appropiate rituals for each god. But goddammit, you just made me feel bad. Those rituals were established for a reason. Why would you use them for other gods?
>>37862312The most racist thing I see with those who truly follow Asatru and don't use it as a cover for racism, is they just ask you to look into your own ancestral faith before ours. Which I agree with. Like, if you were of Greek descent, I would say look at Hellenism before Asatru, because it would more than likely feel more true to you. After that, if you want to become an Asatruar, you are welcome to becoming one. It's a matter of "Your ancestors faith will probably call to you more than mine."
>>37862303Eeeeeh, I can understand it, a little. My faith outright says that some foreign gods might be just mine in different clothing, so to speak. I mean, if I see a storm god, I'm generally gonna assume it is Jupiter. Now, obviously that isn't Thor, because Thor isn't a literal living storm, he's a dude that causes lighting. So there are differences that one has to be careful about.Like I don't think Zeus and Jupiter are actually the same; Zeus is just too much of a cock. I think that he is either a nasty lars, a misunderstanding by the Greeks, or Liber on a bad day impersonating Jupiter.Still not okay, but some syncreticism is okay. Only some. Like, Isis is sorta like Juno, but not. Ra and Sol Invictus might be the same god, not sure, but I'd never worship Sol Invictus under the name Ra. I might, probably not but might, if I was in Egypt or in a Kemetic temple pay heed to Ra as Sol-Ra or something like that, as the ancients would SOMETIMES pay heed to Isis as Juno-Isis, Juno as Isis, but that's a very case by case basis.Even so.
>>37862457Also, if I did celebrate a Sol-Ra, it'd be using the rites of Ra, because I might be wrong, and even if I wasn't I'd be worshiping Sol in his aspect as Ra, and worshiping him as Sol Invictus would be bloody ludicrous.
>>37862397I don't really think ancestry matters that much as long as you are european, all european mythologies come from the same indo-european source.
>>37862387The problem that lies with me is that some people use other religions ways of offering to different gods. You can follow different pantheons, just don't mix them and call it one religion. You see?>>37862384No problem mayne, I'm always happy to teach others about my faith, because not many who are of non-pagan/heathen faiths are willing to listen. >>37862364Asatru has plenty of mentally retarded cockmonglers who want to be edgy, or have a cover up for racism.
*yawn*Ja, call me back vhan they hang 9 men and beasts for me each year.Until then, this is christfag and skyrim LARP.
>>37862487Ancestry doesn't matter, ancestors matter is a term I hear thrown around a lot. Race is pointless, just venerate those who you came from. Which I totally agree with, it's that you should investigate your ancestors faith because you will probably find more in common with it than Asatru, due to how traditions and values are passed down in families.
>>37862397Absolutely this. I'm about a 1/8th Italian and a 1/8th Norweigan. I looked into Asatru, but I felt nothing (religiously). Then I checked out the Religio, and I felt a deep desire and strong connection. And now I have a lararium and regularly sacrifice.>>37862529I'd like to take a moment to complain that I can't sacrifice animals under US law, even for religious purposes. The Numa tradition is against that, but I don't entirely follow that tradition anyway.
>>37862511Wasn't Heimdall called the Fair? OR you say that because hollywood movies?
>>37862561What's a lararium? A kind of altar or what? Also even when in my country we have lot's of traditions and superstitions, our gods were nearly all erased be the Romans. I think I will go full Basque or mix both.
>>37862561I'm predominantly Scottish with a tad of German and Dutch thrown in. I looked into Celtic recon, didn't connect, looked into Asatru, and felt right at home. Been practicing for almost 10 years, holy shit.
>>37862550I have the theory that the different european pantheons have more or less the same gods and it doesn't really matter where you come from.
>>37862665That's 100% true, almost all of the Germanic gods are the same, with different names. Anglo-Saxon Heathenry is just like Norse Heathenry, and the same with ænglish (think that's how you spell it) Heathenry.
>>37862397I can understand that. I'm spanish, and I know a few Asatruar (Forgive me if I wrote that wrong) who are not of germanic descent, and I feel sort of offended. I have arabs, iberians and germans among my ancestors, but if I were to choose a heathen faith, I would choose the iberian one. True, we know shit all about it, but we know at least a few gods. Even then, we can worship the Greek and the Roman gods. They were here for centuries, for fucks sake. I feel more connected to the Mediterranean gods than to the Germanic ones.
>>37862665Stupid. Have you never heard of prot-indo-european religion?Norse, Roman, Greek, Slavic, Armenian, Hindu, Persian, Hittite, and Celtic mythologies are all just local ripoffs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religionYou never noticed the blatant similarities?
>>37862729I feel the same, I'm learning more about hte ancient Basques gods, Mari and Sugaruu are pretty based.
>>37862561>I'd like to take a moment to complain that I can't sacrifice animals under US law, even for religious purposesyeah you can. i think it has to be a livestock animal though
>>37862738I was referring to that.
>>37862729Exactly, because if you look at it from a logical standpoint, I was raised in a very Scandinavian values centric home, and even though my family isn't even Scandinavian, Asatru rang true with me, and Celtic Recon did not. It's just logical that you would feel more connected to the religion of your family's culture.
>>37862620A Lararium is the center of the Religio, being the household Altar. It usually consists of1. A permanent bit of furniture, something you can't just put away. 2. A candle or oil lamp, to be lit during use.3. A holder for purifying salt, which cannot be iodized.4. A glass, cup, or goblet for libations and liquid sacrifices.5. A holder for incense.6. A small dish for placing other sacrifices; it is also where you place a portion of your meal (small) during meals, as a way of allowing the gods to eat with you as part of the house.They also usually include some objects to represent the gods. The usual is a pair of young men holding dishes to represent the Lars of the family, and a snake to represent the lars of the house. I myself have a (real, sharp) dagger covered in wolf symbology for Mars, a small statuette of Jupiter, and a real bronze roman coin for Fortuna. I'm still building my Lararium objects though.Pic related is a small, modern one.>>37862654That's really cool. I only joined in the last year, but I'm finding it excellent. I hope to make it a long tradition.
>>37860479>I keep seeing the word cringe being used lately, is this some new reddit meme or something?This is some YouTube comments-level stupidity right here.
>>37862783Really? When I looked it up it seemed like only Judaic, Hindu, and Islamic faiths could sacrifice... I'm not entirely sure my religion is officially recognized.>>37862790Aha, yes. Duty to the state, duty to one's family, stark and honest virtue... these were my beliefs growing up, and boy did it match up.>>37862729Join the club, Liber's got wine.
>>37862809The fun thing about having a reconstructed religion is it's a constant journey, we're learning new things about it all the time. It's a lifelong thing .
In the end what really matters is, will we be allowed to claim to be allowed to wear warhammers in public because they have religious significance?Also pet ravens everywhere.
>>37862868A guy in australia managed to get his passport and drivers licence photo taken with a colander on his head due to being a pastafarian, he won the courtcase so maybe?
>>37862729>I have arabs among my ancestorsI'm pretty sure you don't.The iberians that lived inside the peninsula probably had similar gods to those of the celts, those who lived in the coast were probably influenced by the greeks and phoenicians.
>>37862868If Sikhs can wear their swords, why not.
>>37862859Exactly. I was raised on the idea, "Fuck everyone else, your family and community are always first." Hel, that's even a direct virtue of Asatru. Frith. Always loyal to kin.
>>37862487indo-european goes a lot further than europe. in fact, there's a branch of the indo-european religion still thriving today, practiced by almost a billion people.
>>37862780>ancient Basque godsI'm andalusian, so Euskadi is a bit too far from home for me. We have almost no knowledge of the pre-Roman gods here (we know a bit of the Lusitanian Pantheon, but far fom enough). Also, I have been exposed to the Roman and Phoenician ruins all of my life. For some reason, I don't really connect with the Roman gods, but I feel like that can be solved with a bit of reading about them.I'm fascinated with the Phoenician pantheon, though. I'm currently looking for books about them.>>37862900I'm Andalusian, my friend. We have everything here. Greeks, Romans and Phoenicians, Iberians and Arabs. All of them liked this place.
>hard polytheistHow do you reconcile that with our current scientific understanding of the universe?
>>37862862>>37862923It's a wonderful thing, I find. I had always, through out my life, wished for faith, but nothing I found matched my beliefs or clicked with me. Then I found my gods, and... it's been a great balm.For me, my duty to my people is the most vital thing, family, community, state, in that order. A state that doesn't provide for my people is no worthwhile state, of course.I believe the US does, at the moment, which is why I pray for its good health every Ides of the month.
>>37862980For me, at least, it's very simple. The world is the world, it follows the scientific laws of nature, something that has been observed since the earliest times. And the Gods are part of the world.The Gods are the living embodiments and rulers of the cosmos, the makers and shakers of reality. Our understanding is limited, and it is no real shock we cannot see them. I mean, we can't even properly perceive gravity or the 4th or higher dimensions, so how the hell are we supposed to comprehend the divine?
Christfags and other monoethists: 'look at the universe, how can you not believe a god made it!'polyethists: 'look at the universe, cleasly this was made by at least a dozen godlike beings who could'nt agree on anything'
>>37862980Here's how I do it.All the shit written down thousands of years ago by my ancestors on how the universe worked?Basic science.Gar ginnugap? 2000 year old interpretation of the Big Bang.Ymir dying to create the earth?2000 year old interpretation of a star dying for the universe to make the planet by fucking space amazingness.It's just simply realizing that my ancestors tried to understand the universe, and that's how they could with their knowledge.>>37862991I would give it all to see my ancestors actually practice what I do. It's a great feeling waking up and being like, "Holy fuck, I'm currently a vessel of ancient culture. I'm one of the reasons why ancient culture is still surviving."
>>37863089theism not ethism godsdammit
>>37862966>ArabsOkay, I'm being an idiot here and I just found out. Arab is sort of a catch-all word for "Muslim" or "Moor" where I grew up. When I say I have Arabs among my ancestors, I mean Moors, or at least, some kind of North-African muslim.The guy who said I don't have Arab ancestry is probably right and I was just being short-sighted.
>>37863089>Christfags and other monoethists: 'look at the universe, how can you not believe a god made it!'As I understand it, monotheists tend to justify the existence of their particular divinity by assuming that they exist outside of the scope of our current understanding of the universe. That Ahura Mazda, Yahweh, Allah, or whatever represents some sort of uncaused first cause, the explains why there is something rather than nothing, that is either embodied by the universe itself or wholly beyond it. What I have difficulty seeing is how this kind of set up can work with a pantheon of flawed deities that are characterized in part by possessing many of the same failings as us.
>>37863113>I would give it all to see my ancestors actually practice what I do. It's a great feeling waking up and being like, "Holy fuck, I'm currently a vessel of ancient culture. I'm one of the reasons why ancient culture is still surviving."Absolutely. I'm a great lover of history, and oh man is it deeply satisfying to think "I am living as my oldest ancestors did. I am part of 2500 years of history. I am learning wisdom from Gods that watched over Caesar and Cicero."
>>37863089Actually, my Gods did jack shit in creating the universe. It just kind of happened, and then my Gods arrived. So, they just did their thing. The Gods have actually made very little.
>>37863089>>37863166Long story short; imagine my gods as being living embodiments of already existent phenomenon. Virtue, Storms, the Sun, all these things.Less creators, I was off there, more the children of creation who ensure its continued excellence.Like, Sol Invictus is literally the sun, not some guy in a chariot. Luna is the moon. They have weight beyond their physical dimensions.
>>37863172>deep lover of historyWho follows an ancient religion and ISN'T a deep lover of history, if you think about it. You have to love history, because that's honestly 90% of what our religions are. Do you agree with me when I say it seems like heathens/pagans/recons/whatever are the most religiously accepting people? Because it sure in the hell looks like it.
>>37863225So, if they represent natural forces that have existed before us and will exist after us, why are they so human?
>>37862784Yep.The original pantheon was Dyeus Pater: The Sky god, and king of the Gods.Perkwunos: The striker, lord of thunder and lightning (and for some reason oak trees)Yemo: First human being to die, and the God of the deadWelnos: God of CattlePeHauson: God of pastoralistsHaepom Nepots: God of watersMeHenot: God of the MoonHeékuos: The horse twin godsPlenty: The goddess of wide riversHaeus: Goddess of the dawnPria: Goddess of loveDeHanu: Another river goddess.SeHaul: Goddess of the sunHaeustero: Goddess of the hearthAbove the Gods are the three ladies of fateBelow the Gods yet above man are lesser nature spirits such as Elves, Fauns, Dwarves, Leshi, Satyrs, etc.Manu was the first humanThe Gods consumed some substance that made them immortal/young.And at some point, Perkwunos fought a dragon to save the world.
>>37862859>. I'm not entirely sure my religion is officially recognized.its probably not. take it to court, maybe you can get it recognized.
>>37863322Lucky for us Asatruar, we have been recognized by the military, and the US. I can go legally become ordained as a Gothi right now if I wished, and turn my home into an official Asatru temple.
>>37863307Because they also represent the spirit of intelligence and civilization.Note that my arguments are hardly gonna be infallible here, I don't claim to entirely understand the divine.AND Keep in mind that the Roman gods, while represented by man as human in art, aren't. Jupiter is the storm, the sky. He's got intelligence, and is a virtuous being because the greatest beings are, but he isn't human and doesn't think like one. He's beyond us, as we are beyond ants, if not far more so. Ants are pretty neat after all.So, like, Jupiter isn't some dude in a toga hanging out on Olympus, he's the sky and air and storm, he's everywhere, he's in all people who are virtuous leaders, he's near omnipresent because the sky is.
>>37863418>Because they also represent the spirit of intelligence and civilization.So then what were they before those things? What will they be after those things?
Asatrufag, would you consider yourself fairly learned on the subject of Asatru?
>>37863483They existed before man, they'll exist after man.The Gods ARE virtue and civilization, they don't need us. They bestow and teach it to us so we can become greater beings, more until them. Hell, in some cases, you can become a minor god if you are sufficiently great and noble.I suppose the lovecraftian deities can be pointed at for here as an example; Yog-Sothoth IS space and time, he doesn't need clocks to function.Jupiter IS virtue and the sky, he is a living concept. As long as he endures, there will be skies and virtue of the sort he represents.
>>37857929>Worship of Thor Odin and FriggSo we worship the phony pretender god when it is TYR God of War and Justice who is the true leader of gods.
>>37863563Also if I am correct Romans pretty much slapped together every other religion they met.Aka The Celtic Chief God's main symbol was the Chariot wheel, so the Romans thought HE MUST BE THE CHARIOT DUDE.
>>37863563I'm not trying to nitpick, I'm just having some trouble understanding the concept. If they are civilization and intelligence, and have always existed, then why would civilization and intelligence not always exist beyond them as well?
>>37863526I consider myself average, others may think me less, or more. I am definitely not the most learned. Why? Do you have a question? I would more than likely be able to answer.
>>37863598Because Gods are Mustard RaceHumans need to Ketchup.
>>37863630Just trying to get a feel for the scope of your answers. I myself am not terribly well learned, and have always looked to the gods as a set of archetypes to take example from (seeing them both as deeply wise, and deeply flawed).All the questions I want to ask fall under /pol/'s purview, so I'll keep them to myself.
>>37863526>>37863630And if I couldn't, I could point you in the proper direction.
>>37863166There's no reason the beings that existed before creation would'nt be flawed and slightly crazy anymore then that there is a reason they'd be perfect.>>37863307Welll these are gods who where here first, so it might simply be a case of us being like them rather then the other way around.
>>37863598Oh, I understand, I'm not terribly good at explaining it. And I honestly don't entirely know, again, I'm hardly a god.As for how I'd explain it... simple, because they didn't want to bestow it upon us.Or, hell, maybe they did! Maybe there is some alien race out there worshiping Jupiter under some alien name.Who knows.But perhaps they simply didn't feel a need for intelligent life before us. Perhaps they felt that only the gods were needed.
>>37863630Can you actually read Dǫnsk Tunga? Or Latin?Have you read the Gesta Hammaburgensis for a detailed account of Norse Religion in practice?
>>37859654>Motherfuckers think that the Gods are "embodiments of nature".This is standard for Pagans across history.
>>37863676Ah, so you're just coming to the troth. Let me tell you, from someone who has practiced for 10 years, you better be prepared for your baggage if you're a former Christian like myself. And don't treat Iceland like Jerusalem or the Eddas like a Bible.
>>37863174Does that mean there's room for some manner of creator deity as well? That while you're worshipping your ancestors, the wights, and the gods, that Ahura Mazda may have been behind it all along?
>>37863687Also with our limited understanding of the universe for all we know being an all powerful flawed douchebag might BE the ideal way to be for a god for reasons we cannot comprehend.I assume though that being omnipotent and all knowing would basicly be a living hell of neverending boredom and if i was such i would do everything in my power to a) get rid of those abilities b) be a flawed powerfull douchebag who actually has fun.
>>37857987Iceland is one of the most cuckolded nations on earth. Proper Scandinavian pagans would call them skraelings.
>>37863707I cannot, I am only an English speaker, even though my father could speak Swedish, Old Norse, and English. I am assuming that is Dutch, from Dorsk. I have not read that book, actually. I am interested though, please, tell me if or how can I acquire it? I am always looking for more information and books to put on my bookshelf.
>>37863676>All the questions I want to ask fall under /pol/'s purviewKilling black people is not okay.Killing women just because they don't do what you want them to do is also not okay.Killing children because they aren't all that physically fit is also not okay.Please, notice this as the joke it is
>>37863734What would happen if I worshipped Tyr there?Would people get bootyblasted I bring my Germanic God before an Icelandic Altar?Because gonna be honest.Tyr is pretty based. And not a Homosexual.
>>37863756Hm. That raises a good question. All we know is Gar Ginnugap just kind of happened. Stop meddling with my brain, devil worshipper.
>>37863792Oh, nothing like that. Even if those were the beliefs of the old Norse pagans, a religion has to be adapted to the times.
>>37863598sounds similar to the idea of platonic forms. the forms are like blueprints from which physical reality is constructed. but even if destroy a building, it doesn't effect the blueprints. likewise, the form of a thing is not effected by the existence or non-existence of that thing in the physical world.
>>37863792Be more liberal, please
>>37863811>laughing Zarathustra.jpgI kid, I kid. Is there any answer for the origins of the first divinity in your beliefs?
>>37863796The Icelanders "worship" the same Gods. There's only a language and spelling difference with most of the Germanic Gods.
>>37862210>I just can't see how you can worship both of them and maintain any semblance of religious seriousness.Google "Interpretatio graeca", its a thing people did even before Antiquity. Romans took the Greek Gods, but also adopted others, like the Egyptian Isis Cult became famous enough in the Roman Empire, to influence even Christian Iconography. >>37862387> Those rituals were established for a reason.Most modern rituals of reconstructed religions are made up bullshit by new age retards. If you bullshit yourself and your new old god, surly you can bullshit other gods with it.The ones that are not bullshit are silly, since they were defined by the abilities of the culture practice it. Most pagan rituals are simple, because they were made by simple people, not because there is deeper reason.
>>37863858First divinity? Hmmm. All I can say is that everything just kind of happened, it's essentially the Big Bang with a dash of Norse for good measure. Ymir was the first being(?) Don't quote me on that because I'm probably wrong.
>>37862622I see 2 billion Christians I don't see any vikings
>>37863861Well, Actually there is a great Scism between the two sets of gods.In the Germanic root of the same religion, Tyr is the chief god, Wodan is the shamanistic adviser and Thor is a nature god. The whole Aesir and Vanir split is generally the Scandanavians saying their gods are better as the Aesir, while supplanting Tyr and Thor into the Aesir as they were the most popular ones at the time.It's why Thor, Odin and Tyr have day names named after them, compared to say Heimdall.Tyr is pretty much supplanted as a major god to push forward Odin, a bastardisation of Wodan and some local gods ideas.
>>37863790Probably from Amazon.My copy was a present from my Latin teacher.
>>37863756A pantokrator of sorts? I don't see how it conflicts with anything, not the Norse or Roman gods.
>>37863903I am pleased to say that most of my rituals come direct from ancient sources.But at the same time making stuff up can be okay too; the gods understand. As long as it pleases them, it doesn't matter. The old ways are best because they honor the gods and the ancestors at the same time, but not totally vital.
>literally worshipping SatanThe Lord of Lies takes many forms
>>37863976>But at the same time making stuff up can be okay too the gods understandSays who?>
>>37863906Ymir was the first being, brought to life by the intense cold of existence coagulating into him.
Okay. Enough of this faggotry./chris/tfags, get in here and let's educate these devil worshipers.DEUS VULT!
>>37863988But your God is just Ba'als annoying little brother christianfag.
>>37864002I tought a sort of sacred cow licked some ice where Ymir was sleeping/caged. And from the sweat of Yimir, the rest of the Jotun emerged. Then Wotan and his two bros wrecked them and made the world of the corpse of Yimir.
>>37863957True, but most Anglo-Saxon or strictly Germanic Heathens would ignore the tiny facts like Tyr being chief instead of Wodan, because its how generally every other form of Heathenry is with Odin, Odin is chief because lolmagics and lolhungmyselffor9days
>>37864025Yimir himself just sort of popped up.Scared Cow I am sure came later.
>>37864017But that's wrong. Ignorant people associated the two.There is only one God.All the other "Gods" are demons who demand human blood and false worship.
>>37863994When I say making stuff up, I mean rituals and prayers.What, you think the Romans got all their long, elaborate rituals and sacrifices direct from the gods? No, they tried to find the right words, and once they did, they used them. The same principle applies in modern times.
>>37864078Yet your Gods name is able to be directly linked through scriptures your own faith finds holy.Your god was a cuckboy.
>>37864033What are you beliefs on that level?
>>37864002Woohoo! Go me for having to remember shit out of a book of myths I haven't read in years! >>37864025Correct, from Ymir's corpse the Earth was made, from the stories. Not many people actually believe it is true, as far as i'm aware. I take them as 2000 year old attempts at describing science they can't understand.
>>37864033>Wizards are more important than fightersFUCK THIS I HATE PLAYING HEATHEN 3.5 WE SHOULD BE PLAYING HEATHEN 4E
>>37863988Insofar as I worship Satan as a symbol of the ego.Source: Non-practicing LeVay Satanist
>>37864138>Not playing Glorantha with Runequest or Heroquest.Poor bastard.
>>37864126What do you mean? Do I consider Tyr the chief of the Gods? No, but maybe that is because I have a deeper connection with Odin I have spent years forging. I do not often hold Blot specifically for Tyr, while I do with Odin. Many heathens who served treat Tyr that way, but I do not.
>>37864138>not playing Heathen RunequestIshiggydiggy
>>37864133>I take them as 2000 year old attempts at describing science they can't understand.Science is a method of understanding reality.What you're trying to say is attempting to describe a reality they can't understand, which is really what we're doing too, but with a much more efficient mental toolkit
>>37864078Pfft. Like your god isn't just as much of a sadist.In the Bible:>The Flood.>Job.>Adam & Eve>etc.And in history (The Pope is the Voice of God)>Crusades (not the bits about fighting the muslims, but the bits about killing heathens minding their own business, witch-hunts, etc).Worshipping anything (even if it exists) is fucked up.Source: Non-atheist non-worshipper.
>>37864184>Not taking the god of Glory and Justice as your thief diety.>Not taking the direct link to Deyus as your diety.As Romanfag would call you.Plebius maximus
I really don't think of religion in the same way as a lot of people do. I mostly think of it as a people's or culture's "family".they reflect who you are and where you came from, they bring together your brothers, sisters, cousins, uncles, fathers, mothers, aunts, etc.they reflect what you as a culture deem important and not important.so I pretty much see religion as an extension of culture.that means switching religions is really like spiritually switching your culture.of course, I fucking love culture because it's super fascinating, so I venerate all gods equally (although I probably view ol' JC a little higher due to my upbringing. But YHWH's kind of a dick)
>>37864285>Not taking a being who LIVES ON NOTHING BUT MEAD as your chief deity>Not taking the One Eyed Wanderer as your chief deityAs my ancestors would call youThrall.
Alright, so a big part of Asatru is family, but what if you don't have good relations with your family? Like, say you came from an abusive household. Are you pissing off the gods by not associating with them?
>>37864334>Implying Tyr's offerings are not Mead, meat and Blood>Implying the Wolf God is not just a trickster and a practitioner of woman's magic.
>>37864388You must always hold frith with them. Love them, respect them, put no one above them, and you'll do fine. >>37864392>worshipping a one handed pleb>not accepting mighty ravengod into your heart
>>37864388You start your own family then son.Slay your father. Take his halls as your own.
>>37864282Heathens who'd been raping and ravaging christian lands for ages and enslaving people, meanwhile the church banned slavery.Vikingboos are the worst. Your beloved vikings were considered a scourge from God for the evil shit they did. Yeah, nah. Your gods are explicitly evil. One of Wotan's titles is "The one who does evil". Seriously, right there.>witch-huntsOccasional protestant crazies in the 17th century, not even the middle ages.
>>37864434>Tyr has one hand>His Strength Rivals Thors>>37864445>Call heathens evil and crazy>Celebrate Yule tide>Implying Christianity isn't just fanfiction of every religion it comes across.
>>37864282>In the Bible:Considering God created reality he also created pain to be painful, without which sadism wouldn't be possible.I never bought the "reality as a test" thing either. If God's omnipotent it could have made everyone to pass whatever test it wanted, let alone needing a test in the first place.If it's omniscient then it deliberately made people who would fail it's test.There's mounting evidence against free will even existing, and a growing school of thought that sapience is even good for anything beyond an extremely basic level (choosing between conflicting motor neuron singals)
>>37864485Actually, I don't. And the fanfiction is heresy.Christmas was banned for most of history.
>>37864511I forgot to add my conclusion.Even if it's a New Testament style god rather than Old Testament one, it's still the most horrible monster to ever exist.No wonder Gnosticism exists, it's the most sensible of Abrahamic strains.
>>37864537>Being this no fun allowedNo wonder the pope declared the Knights Templar Heretics, you guys are literally no fun.Even the Pope was like "Niggas you no fun"
>>37864485>Tyr has one hand>Strength rivals that of the son of Odin>still not as strong as mighty Meadlord
>>37864572>Implying Odin was ever about strength
>>37864597>exactly>isn't even about strength>still strongest godMighty Odin trumps all, heretic. You are 180 pounds (if you're average, i think) of heresy.
>>37864652>Calling heresy>On a person who worships the one true Germanic God KingPot calling the kettle black much? Should I let the Franks in here?
>>37863837>You don't want to wantonly murder people? LIBERAL!Please, go back to /pol/ and take your boogie men with you.
>>37864671>true Germanic GodkingYou mean Odin?>even mentioning the FranksHeresy.What happened to this thread? This used to be a nice thread. It is no longer a nice thread.
>>37864710I believe he was joking.I want to believe
>>37864138>>37864182>not playing Nobilis
>>37864730It still is a nice thread. Better than many others. You're arguing about your respective chief deities, trying to prove that yours is better than his. But you both can agree that they are good gods. Better than the Nailed One, at least. It's just drunken rambling, without the "drunken".
>>37864445>Waaah! You lot did nothing but kill people!Hi kettle.>Waaaah! MY church "banned" a type of slavery!Serfdom became the new thing and good old fashioned slavery was still prevalent.>Waaah! Stop generalizing us because of a hand full of baddies!Like what you're doing to pagans and neopagans? Play the victim card more. Everyone's blood has been shedded, don't think you're anything special.
>>37864434What if you have no capacity in you to love them? Say they aggrieved you in some what that's absolutely unforgivable.
>>37864785It's probably all the heresy, and the Christfags that are killing my pure Nordic mind.
>>37864826If love is impossible, respect is necessary. You don't have to associate, but you have to respect them and hold them above anyone. You gotta keep frith. Without frith, they are just other people. Not kin.
>>37864830It's just one Christfag who is full of shit.Also, there's no heresy. Just different views on the Gods. You must not try to impose your chief god unto others. When you start imposing your beliefs, you're no better than edgy Christfags or Muslims.
>>37864830Oh, oh my-If that isn't a creation of Liber's I will be shocked, that is right up his alley.
>>37864882>>37864826The only way you can have approval from the Gods and pretty much all of the Asatru community at your side for 100% of the way, is if they commited kinslaying. If they killed one of their kin, you have full grounds to eliminate fritg with them and never speaking with them again. Even ancient texts agree with that,much less modern Asatruar.
>>37864830Do your ancestors smile upon you?Can others say the same?
If Odin/Tyr/whoever is so strong how did Christians beat them?Checkmate pagans
>>37864925Brotha, if you're gonna be an Asatruar, you gotta be able to take a joke or two, because everyone will make fun of your shit. I'm just playing with you.......heretic.
>>37864975If Christianity is so strong why is their fanfiction God a fairy that's allergic to Iron Chariots?
>>37864975Because Ragnarok is a symbol of Lucifer's cast down and all the Nordic Gods are Angels and aspects of god fighting over to defeat satan.Adam and Eve hid within the branches of Yggdrasil and God recreated the world into paradise.That's how the Saxons were converted anyway.Christianity is a Sequel.
>>37865024That's Judaism not Christianity
>>37864882What if you don't respect them, or keep Frith with them? Do you go to Germanic neo-pagan hell?
>>37865045Christianity is Judaism for Romans and poor people.
>>37865032Fuckin feeble minded Saxons. They pretty much turned Christianity into Asatru-lite to convert Scandinavians.
>>37865005I was also joking. I tried to make it sound a dramatic and messianic, but it came off weird.Also, not interested in being an Asatruar. Learning about nordic religion? As much as you want and more. Much more. Religion is awesome and I love to learn about it. But I'm looking for something that connects more with me.I was tempted to throw in a WH40k image there.
>>37865024Hello faggot, still reading the King James version? It's damn obvious that the verse referred to men.
>>37864954So, if your parent raped you (as an extreme example), you still have to respect them?
>>37864975They took the ICP method of gaining fans. Or rather, ICP uses the same method. If you appeal to the lowest common denominator, you're bound to get a lot of converts, especially when, ideally, it's not exclusive.
>>37865083Well, look at it this way.The Scandinavians were untrustworthy cuntrags and the Franks and Italians could kick your shit in.Why do you think they all fled over to Britain? You can only fight so well.
>>37865117Actually, the first northern converts were noble.
>>37864445>>37864078>>37864015>All this christian shitpostingShit its like the Middle Ages all over again.
>>37865067Christianity is for everyone, that's the point
>>37865142And then it spreads everywhere else. My point still stands that you don't have to be special to be Christian, just have a heart beat.
>>37865154Except when it became less of an ancient understand of a unified theory of some kind of overgod and more WORSHIP OUR ONE JEWGOD AND DIE.Or have we forgotten Deus derives for Deyus, the Indo-European proto-god for every single religion in Europe.
>>37865058Oh boy here we go.There are very few sins in Asatru. When you die, unless you were an amazing warrior, who could kill people by looking at them, you aren't going to Vahalla. If you're a normal person who dies a normal death, you go to Hel. Hel is like Purgatory, is what we currently believe. It's just kind of there. If you don't hold frith, the Gods are probably mad, and will definitely alter your wyrd and orlog. Which is really bad. If those are altered for the worse, your life becomes worse. If altered for the better, your life gets better. And you children inherit your orlog, so if you want to fuck up your entire line, go right ahead. I don't mean to be rude, but it's what will happen. We don't have a horrifying torture afterlife, as far as we know.
>>37864015Deus Vult!Also, do you think Pagans will ever be organized enough to crusade against?
Christianity's two big appeals, far as I can tell are that it champions all members of society, including those that are otherwise marginalized for whatever reason, and because the idea of redemption is a big part of Christian theology. In a lot of faiths, if you fuck up, you've fucked up for life, whereas this isn't the case in Christianity.Christianity also had an intellectual advantage in that it came packaged with an alphabet and writing that saw common use in scholarly pursuits.
>>37865166>>37865187Christianity is for everyone. All souls should love the Lord
>>37865115Some may think so, I do not. The only 100% official way that you can break frith from the texts we've recovered is by kinslaying. I would consider that grounds to break frith, though. I wouldn't consider "waaaah my mum hit me once and never again because I was being an asswipe can i break frith" reason though.
>>37865154Exactly. Which sounds best to a medieval person : a dark shadowy grey afterlife of sadness and depression, a never ending hellscape of warfare leading up to a senseless bloody battle that WILL be lost, or a beautiful paradise run by a benevolent father figure?
>>37865196It does work the other way however.See the Seigfried tale.
>>37865208Pagans would need to become an organized religion with a authoritative head in order to compel multiple pagan rulers to set aside differences. Typically a crusade or holy war is fought to reclaim previously held territory, territory viewed as traditionally yours or to liberate a population of your faith or an important holy site
>>37865187Dyeus was also God of Persia and India.
>>37865262Valhalla was a paradise for warriors though.Hel had it's own garden of Elysium thing too.
>>37865262I'd also like to note that its not just heavenly reward but earthly reward of peace, love and happiness
>>37865208"Deus Vult!" says the neckbeard as he waves his great bicep flabs around in a gurggily shout from the depths of his cavernous chins. His mind embroiled in selfish imagery of him being something he is not out of the insecurity of his person.
>>37860342*sprinkles holy water*
>>37865262>Benevolent father figure>Abrahamic GodPick one.
>>37865383*sprinkles blessed mead*
>The county of Iceland has converted to Germanic paganism!Where is my court chaplain?!?
>>37860459Yeah, most seem to forget Iceland was more or less the Viking's Australia.The place where murders, oathbreakers, thieves and traitorous younger brothers fled to.
>>37865350"Deus Vult!" says the neckbeard as he waves his great bicep flabs around in a gurggily shout from the depths of his cavernous chins. His mind embroiled in selfish imagery of him being something he is not out of the insecurity of his person.How is this any different then wanting to relive a romanticized version of Vikingdom?
>>37865261So, what does keeping frith entail. You say one doesn't have to associate with their parentage, but to respect them. I'm not entirely sure what that would entail exactly.
>>37865314>Peace, love, and happinessYeah, so many Christians sure are spreading that of late with Africans dragging out non-believers and killing them, religious right pushing for religious laws to suppress the people, telling everyone how they are hated, damned, and they are the best around.Such humility, such proposal for peace. Ingsoc would be proud.
>>37860558Icelandic Vikings didn't do much raiding either, they lived too far away and were mostly cripples, farmers and outcasts.
>>37865350"For the allfather!" Says the neckberserker as he adjusts his authentic horned helmet. The aryan warrior adjusts his rope belt as his mother calls him.upstairs for church. "No mom! Gawd!" Can't you see Odin lives I my heart.
>>37865458Let's not drop that shit in here please?The fact that all these religions stem from the same basic Indo-European route whos Sky god hypothetical is named in the root word for god really shows how all religions no matter how crazy they get are all the same thing and a way for ancient people to try and understand the machinations of the universe.
>>37865401*pours out a libation of wine*
>>37865454Because most people who believe in the norse gods just revere the gods and keep to themselves and their practices are normally benign. If you forget most people in ancient times were blood thirsty. Kings were not living in peace with one another before the vikings started raiding, that's for sure. Those who yell Deus Vult and wanting crusades on the other hand are as cringy as people who yell Sieg Heil and think they'll be apart of another glorious Reich.It's all about intent and presentation.
Wasn't Odin primarily held as a figure to be feared? A mysterious and capricious figure that took warriors in their prime for his own reasons and demanded human sacrifices for his appeasement.
>>37865443Iceland was pretty much the non-rebellious America for Scandinavia. Settlers, criminals, and undesirables.But yet, new heathens worship it like a holy land.
>>37865516>Lets not drop that shit in here please?When niggas wanna drop they for the hood, some niggas going to tell them how they a busta.
>>37865456You do not have to be around them. You don't have to be their friend even, you have to just treat them as humans and as elders.
>>37865562Yep.He cursed people and took their shit. He was Loki before Loki.Like said in this thread, Until Wodan became more like Odin of a more modern time, Tyr and Thor were "good" gods to respect, Wodan was an angry old hedge wizard god.
>>37865458Anon. That's chickenshit and you know it.Over 2,000 Christians were burned alive by mudslimes the other month.Quit your "just as bad" nonsense. The Quran is 100x worse than the new testament and I'm glad to live in a Christian nation now. And btw, Africans are pagans in all but name.
>>37865607So, give them the same respect any decent human would expect to receive? Sounds simple enough.How would one go about seeking to make amends for wrong-doing in the Asatruar way? Would some manner of ritual be appropriate, or should one just go about it informally?
>>37865562As a someone who has a connection with the Allfather, Yes, yes, I know it sounds faggy and special snowflake like. Odin is feared because he has magic at his side. Most Heathens are scared of magic, and rightfully so. Even I am terrified of the concept of rune magic, and I can write in Elder Fuhark.
>>37865629>Hey! We're not as bad as THOSE people!>Those are not TRUE christians!>Our people have been killed in a raging religious violence in the sandbox of the world known for it's raging religious violence. Excuses, excuses.
>>37865540>Those who yell Deus Vult and wanting crusades on the other hand are as cringy as people who yell Sieg Heil and think they'll be apart of another glorious Reich.I don't think I've met anyone who ever actually yelled Dues Vult. Unless by yell you mean typed in an anonymous image board.
>>37865458Africans will be Africans, you can't blame Christianity for Africans.Also they aren't Catholics so don't blame me
>>37865458To be the Devil's Advocate, I'm not sure its reasonable to blame Christianity for Africans behaving like Africans, and people vastly overestimate the evilness of the religious right, as the most extreme and worst of the religious right are only about as bad as the 10% most moderate of muslims.Can't disagree with the fact that Christianity is mostly about using metaphysical torture as a recruiting technique and if it were real would be drastically more fucked up, just imagine if a religion whose leadership figure was that cruel was passed off as a good god in an RPG.
>>37865671That's what I mean. It still stands Deus Vult has become very popular because everyone things a new crusade is going to be called without understanding how crusades are formed and succeed in the first place.They are all bark and cannot bite.
>>37865562Pretty much. Odin was that creepy old guy on a rusty white horse who cross dressed and offered you free victory if you got in his pony.
>>37865311yeah, exactly. when paradise is only for the warriors, yer support staff ain't exactly what you might call motivated. Christianity spread like wildfire through Europe on grounds of saying 'yeah even peasants go to heaven and even kings can go to hell.'Islam spread like wildfire courtesy of a dude taking Christianity, filing the serial numbers off, and adding the political awareness of someone who actually knew how politics worked besides "romans bad"there's a reason the islamic world kicked the shit out of christendom from roughly 1000-1500: when your religion was designed from the ground up with political considerations in mind it works a lot more cleanly than the shitshow that was medieval christianity. it ain't a coincidence that it takes until the Protestant Reformation for wealth and power in Europe to not be directly correlated to how much secondhand Fatimid junk you can get your hands on.
>>37865625> angry old hedge wizard godAwesome.
>>37865660Wasn't magic typically feminine? As in if you were to week to do something productive you resorted to magic/witchery?
>>37865537*forges sword and breaks at blotstone*>>37865642Amends to kin, just apologize, do what you'd be expected to do to become friends with them.Amends to Gods, offerings, offerings, offerings. Offer as much as possible until you feel they care again.Amends to wights, offer, actually talk to them with your voice, I know it sounds weird but just talk to them, you won't get a response, but it does good, trust me. And then repeat.
>>37865724Oh you sort of read me wrong.Germanic Paganism Has a Heaven stand in, Valhalla is just "Heaven where fighters go"
>>37865662Kek, they've been denominations for as long as there have been religions. Once Paganism gets off the ground you'll see orthodox and reformed versions.
>>37865724>there's a reason the islamic world kicked the shit out of christendom from roughly 1000-1500You mean approximately the timeframe of the Reconquista?Idiot
>>37865723>Hey kids, you want yourself some victory in battle?>I dunno, Tyr told us not to get on strange horses with bearded men.>Bah, what does Tyr know? He'll just make you go to bed early and brush your teeth.
>>37865743>Worshiping WightsIt's like you're just asking to get your spirit gnawed on silly adventurer.
>>37865750it's kinda like mormonism, in that case: "good people go to heaven, but the Chosen Few go to SUPER HEAVEN."
>>37865734Yup.All magic was female.Odin had to die to learn a few spells, loki could do magic because he was a tranny half-demon.
>>37865734Oh no, magic is commonly seen as a wise man's craft. Those who can perform magic would be seen with respect, and honestly, fear. Magic is fuckin spooky mayne.
>>37865662But it's blatantly true. Africans are pagans who merely added Jesus to the pantheon. And aside from that the overwhelming majority of religious violence is muslim worldwide, I should know. I was one.
Is there anything to look forward to for a non-warrior in Nordic paganism for an afterlife?
>>37865774Valhalla isn't really Super Heaven but a very specialised type of Heaven that recycles spirits properly.it should go on to note that some Germanic tales think of reincarnation too.So Valhalla basically works as a filter to capture all the best fighters so Ragnarok isn't quite so destructive this cycle around.
>>37865773Aren't wights just nature spirits that you're supposed to venerate?
>>37865762>>37865724Which is especially ironic considering it was the unity of the Catholic lords of the Iberian peninsula which allowed them to run roughshod over the squabbling Muslim rulers
>>37865786Actually he is right.Magic was mostly feminine, Odin learnt it after he became an Oathbreaker and stopped caring about this shit.
>>37865778Nah mayne, isn't that Wiccan/Celtic stuff? I know women practice magic only in Celtic belief, but I'm 99% sure men can practice magic too, in Norse faith,
>>37865778>>37865786I'm receiving sort of mixed messages.
>>37865837I'm just joking.A Wight is a Spirit is a Goblin.DnD Wights are basically Draugr. Super Zombies.
>>37865710it's a /pol/ meme, they enjoy roleplaying as much as we doit helps that ISIS has started calling america and co "the crusader coalition"
>>37865817Spending eternity eating bread made of hunger, water made of thirst and sleeping in beds made of weariness.
>>37865773Wights aren't the same as zombie things. I already talked about this before. You can scroll through and read if you'd like.
>>37865762and courtesy of grabbing all that third-hand Fatimid shit (the Ummayads were waaaay on their way out, as beautifully demonstrated by the fact they were stuck governing a bunch of North Africans) Spain made itself very briefly not the laughingstock of Europe! unfortunately natural law reasserted itself with great speed.
>>37865853at least one form of magic was considered feminine, odin is mocked at one point for using it (by loki no less)
>>37865852>Speaking of celtsMY TIME HAS COMETH.Magic is split into two halves, feminine magic and masculine magic.Feminine magic is the earth and fertility.Masculine magic is the stars and prophesy.Druids were all male.
>>37865852I'm pretty sure there were both masculine and feminine forms of magic in Nordic belief. Odin was noteworthy in that he practiced the feminine form.
>>37865902The fuck is going on, I'm scared.
>>37865817Nope. That's part of the reason Christianity caught on.Hel was extremely gloomy.
>>37865896Loki mocks everyone for everything. Hence why he gets fucking rekt all the time for being an asahole.
>>37865893What kind of Mohammedan shit are you dribbling out of your mouth?
>>37865853I'm just recalling from memory, I did read a shit-ton of various religious material so I can easily be mixing it up.>>37865911Ah yes, shapeshiting and mind magic being "soft" female
>>37865916hush hush.Only Dreams now.Dreams of a Horse fucking the sea.As is our creation myth.
>>37865911Our friendly neighborhood Celtfag has solved this for us.
>>37865852Stupid. Magic was a tool for cowards and women. That's why Odin was scorned. Get out of your Skyrim fantasy.
>>37865975Magic is a tool for the fucking insane and wise. I don't fuck with it, not because it's for cowards, because it's a fucking terrifying thing. No man should be able to manipulate the world like magic can. Magic is 2spooky4barbarians
>>37865902Shut up. There are no records of druidic beliefs or practices except for Julius Caesars toilet notes and the odd reference in christianized irish legends.Stop pulling shit out of your ass you role player.
That's an advantage of the Religio; afterlives.We've got three.The Fields of Elysium, which are for the best, the most virtuous and accomplished. They're basically amazing all the time.The plains of Asphodel are where most folks go, which is basically real life but more comfortable and less painful.And if you've been a serious bastard or pissed the gods off proper you go to the prison of Tartarus to suffer. Uniquely, Tartarus is a temporary punishment; nobody goes there forever. Eventually you are judged "punished" and go to Asphodel.
>>37865969And yeah, Odin was scorned because he did practice earthen magic.Tying himself to a tree etc etc.Trees are a big part of Germanic and Celtic myth, and probably exist parallel because the two interceted a fair bit Pre-Roman times and due to Indo-European roots.Though Celts are ALOT more akin to Early Germanic Paganism that was based more around nature worship with sacred groves and standing pillars than Temples.>>37866024The fact that Druidism is reference in Greek texts to do with Astrology?The fact that Celtic Beliefs are a hilarious mismash of all the areas Celtic tribal groups migrated to over the years?Or are we going to pretend that these links to other religons of the area do not exist and just pretend Cultural reconstruction STOPS at the Druids?
>>37865923Historians believe Loki was most likely demonized over time.
>>37866024Isn't shit supposed to come out of your ass? Sorry, being a smart ass comes with almost magical benefits :^)
>>37866062Loki is demonized because he's a trickster. Not many people like tricksters. I personally am not a Lokean, but I do not mock those who are. Some find it to be grounds to ban you from their kindred.
>>37866058Cite these "ancient Greek texts".
>>37866058I never found a connection with Celtic Recon, even though I'm Scottish as fuck. I never liked nature worship really. Because isn't it just literally worshipping trees and shit? I find the idea of landwights waaaay easier to believe.
>>37866037>Uniquely, Tartarus is a temporary punishmentit's actually more common for "hells" to be temporary than permanent in religion, even though the two biggest religions feature eternal hells (and a significant minority of christians believe in 'universal reconciliation', that everyone is ultimately reconciled with god).
>>37866062>>37866104Isn't he the "shaytan" figure?The consummate devils advocate, always seeing things from the other side as opposed to Thor that always saw things straight on at eye level and Odin that always saw it from his point of view. (usually elevated, either as king, god, seer or by birds eye)
>>37860831I'd say Omnitheism
>>37857929>worshiping petty, meta-human, non-omnipresent and non-omniscient gods.>not believing in the word of our savior Jesus Christ who preached of humility and humanity.
>>37866066It's just a literalfag trying to drop the "WE DON'T KNOW" Bomb on a sketchy area of a belief that's not so much sketchy as theoretical.The fact that Standing circles often relate to Constellations and often map out as calenders as well as histroical texts say "Druids be wise men yo" when Wise men at the time were scientists in Greece, it's pretty easy to paint the picture.Then adding that to fertility rites and gods in Celtic myth being mostly feminine.>>37866113http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druid#Greek_and_Roman_recordsIt's literally on the Wikipedia page man, Greeks shunned them for being not-Greek, but Druids were recorded as wise men.Druid literally means wise man.>>37866153It's not literally worshipping trees as such. But Places have power, and draw attention from the Gods and Spirits with said power.Places can be artifical, like a Stone circle, or natural, like an old Oak tree.Hugging a Tree ain't shit, Studying and making sure the tree stands is more the proper way. Then again, Druidism was very secretive. What we mostly know his they did have an extenstive study of herblore and Astrology.
>>37866160Loki is the Satan figure for edgy teens. I see him as a trickster who has helped and hindered the other Gods at times. Pretty much [spoiler heresy [/spoiler] Chaos.
>2015>worshipping what are clearly human archetypes>thinking proto indo european pantheon + successors was ever seriously worshiped in the modern sense.People were extremely superstitious, but faith =/= superstitions and customs.Christianization best day of my life.t. latin major
>>37865867>Australia rates a mentionsIS is so kind
>>37866213Yeah see, the Asatru way is "Does the tree provide us with shit for the community? No? Is it usable wood? Yes? Campfire!" Good ol Asatru.
>>37866154Catholic hell is not eternal either
>>37866259Malaysian extremists need someone to bomb too.
>>37860206>Worshiping the god of war>For SCAnigga shit's a sport. people who are real soldiers worshiped that motherfucker you ain't shit.like shit niggaI'm an ammy MMA fighter but you don't see me acting like that makes me some kind of warrior.maybe someday I'll go around kicking ass for a cause instead of my own amusement and self improvement, but unless my life becomes a kung fu movie i'm just an athlete.damn nerd.
>>37866092I actually got it a bit wrong.Sea fucks the land, births Female Horse and OakOak has seeds made of the seas tears, Mare eats seeds, births the first god.First god realised Giants live underground fucked his momhorse and made gods who beat up the formosians aka the giants.>>37866270One of the main cornerstones of Druidism was Herblore and Astronamy. Cutting down an Oak that has been standing for hundreds of years wastes the time it was spent there and eventually wastes resources. You have the whole forest, no sense cutting down the oldest Oak.
>>37866299>Not traveling the world learning the way of the first from experience and ancient masters and fighting rivals along the way.It's like you don't even want to be Ryu.
>>37857929Bring me mead!
>>37866321Asatru is way less mystical about that, kind of why I didn't and don't click with Celtic recon, sure it's been there hundreds of years, but we need that land for a new home or fire to keep the family warm tonight. Don't take this the wrong way, I respect Celtic recons, I just don't agree, like pretty much every other faith out there.
>>37866207I like you.
>>37866321Now that's a creation myth I can get behind!
>>37866380I understand, Celtic recon is sort of hit and miss.I don't buy the super hippy side to the bullshit of it.I mean Druids burned people in Wicker men for being cunts.It's not all Lodestones and Herblore. Though as a Medicalfag I can really admire the Herblore part.
>>37866433Yeah I hate hippy dippy fluff bullshit. I love mysticism and all, but when it's just dumb, "MAAAAAGIC TREE THATS MAGIC BECAUSE IT'S MAGIC" I cannot stand it. Hel, because I'm what some would call an "Odinsman" should be proof I love mysticism already.
>>37866490The Hippy Dippy shit comes from Druidism major respect for trees as a sign of age and wisdom.Oak Trees for example, are sacred, as are Holly and Ash.But it's more about the symbolism and how they work within the ecosystem than just a tree to bloody hug.
So. How xenophobic is Asatru and Celtic Recon? How divided are the communities who argue over nationality and specific ancestries choose one worthy of following these ways?
>>37866553Depends.Celt Recon can easily be broken down into>Are you a hippy>Are you a weird dude trying to be more scottish>Are you a lorefagMe, I am 100% a Lorefag. I don't care about nationality or specific ancestries as this shit is in the past, My "religious devotion" is trying to scrape it all together and learn as much druidic lore as I can.
>>37866553Asatru has a few asaholes who demand Nordic blood. They can't stop you from practising though. The Folkish side generally are forced to either be quiet about their racialism or they're kicked out of certain heathen communities.
>>37866602Is it all book reading for you or are there practices?>implying there's anything wrong with lore and historyJust asking.
>>37866299It's a sport, but martial conflict and honor are involved. I'm worshiping him as the god of battle and honor, not as the god of war.And given how many people get their bones broken there, and the fact that we fight in full armor and kit, I'm willing to call it warrior-lite.
>>37866553My position on the Folkish vs Universalist debate is in the middle. I am personally a Tribalist. If you can practice right, you're welcome to my blots. If not, learn or you aren't welcome to practice alongside me, no matter the race.
>>37866602>>37866621I ask because I skimmed through it all when researching shit one night and I just sat there wondering "I wonder how many Europeans are committing seppeku over how many Americans are probably practicing this."
>>37866666>66666 It's a sign.Religo Romana is in fact Satanism
>>37866626Book reading mainly.Whole deal about Druids is they were judges and Religious leaders.Main thing Druids demanded was knowing the entire lore of that sect before you were a druid.It's a sort of self-defeating side of the Druid specific Celtic Recon. But one that can be tackled fairly Atheistically too actually.>>37866672I just laugh at all the "Druids" hugging trees and throwing lodestones everywhere to blind people because they polished the fucking things.Honestly, Druids were Barbaric Scholars and judges, any "rites" people perform are hazy reinactments at best and silly facades at worst.
>>37866672Quite a few Americans practice, and honestly, the debates are more about "Are blacks allowed to worship my amazing 100% white Aryan Nordic gods?" than "Can muricans compete with European gods?"
>>37863566You. I like you.Tyr gets no respect nowadays. The last time I saw a representation I even kind of liked was in Too Human, of all things. He always gets the Ares treatment, or is just kind of forgotten as a war god among war gods.I'm not an Asatruar, but I think I'm kind of accidentally becoming one. I've always been a live-and-let-live agnostic theist, but I've also been kind of a scandiboo (it didn't hurt when I learned that one of my ancestors was Gunnarson Rambo, who was like, Deputy Colonial Governor after it went from New Sweden to New Amsterdam to New York). So I really like all the norse myths and Tyr in particular, as a god of justice and courage, really appealed to me.Also, having come into this thread late, this has been a hell of a pleasant discussion of religion.
>>37866553It depends. Among Asatru there's a sharp divide between folkists and universalists. Folkists generally believe that you have to be of Germanic blood to worship, whereas universalists don't care. Among folkists, there's a further divide between racial supremacists, racial separatists, and those that would just prefer you worship "your" gods.
>tfw no religion or god or pantheon speaks to you at all whatsoeverI used to be a zealous Catholic (Irishfag here), but a series of things in life, plus unanswered prayers etc etc killed that for me (still like Christianity for the aesthetics and lore). I tried worshiping Lovecraft gods as an ignorant teenager with good intentions. Tried creating my own god (Sredni Vashtar, named after a short story), that fell apart, too. I talked to a sun worshiper here once, his thing sounded cool to me, but I couldn't hold to it. Now I have no gods, I have no love of my jumbled heritage (a few choices, none speak to me), just a vague philosophy based on the unknown.I'd like to have a god or gods or something, I can just never hold to worship, veneration or respect. None of my gods have ever helped me or talked to me or even called to me on a spiritual level.Kinda feel a little sad about it sometimes.
>>37866793>being a TyrfagWho invited heresy back into this thread?
>>37866720I'd also like to add that being a Britfag probably makes this sort of Druidism aspect more fun because you can actually travel around the country to celtic sites and do research and try and discover things yourself.I mean the main focus Druidsm had was Nature, and not just nature reverence but nature REFERENCE.Celts had fantastic metalurgy and good ways to mind tin and copper without large scale open mines, and the location of underground springs by dowsing is also a thing.In Modern day, Druidism is basically just a mix of Primitive Herbal Chemistry and Geology that connects with me on a spiritual level at showing how bloody creative humans were even without modern devices.
>>37866830Check out Zoroastrianism. I'm not personally an adherent, but I think they have a very interesting take on their conception of god, and I can't help but admire a faith where truth is considered absolutely fundamental to all goodness.
>>37866853Question, as a Celtic recon, what's your opinion on Wiccans treating Stonehenge as a holy site? Do you also consider it a holy site? What the fuck even is Stonehenge for that matter, honestly.>>37857929
>>37866853That does sound quite cool. My religious sites are a continent away. Though I have visited Rome, the Pantheon (currently a badly maintained dark catholic temple), and the Colosseum.Also, obligatory>filthy gaulsbut we got Epona so I guess we're good.
>>37866921Fuckin lucky assholes getting to visit places with actual religious benefit to them. This temple isn't even going to be a good thing, especially if they're going to be pantheist about it, and say my gods are nature interpretation. You Celtfags and Romanfags didn't get your temples burned like us. Fuckin lucky asses.
>>37866916Wiccans are generally people disinterested in the SCIENCE side of Druidism and prefer the Fey Mystical side.Stonehenge is a marvel of logistics and human endevor and I consider it the utmost "Holy" site of my ideal.It's a fantastic work of finding the correct ground to place it, the strongest kind of stone they could use and the proper alignment to make it match the corresponding stars in the sky.I cannot revere it any less simply from that.
>>37866986All my temples are either catholic or ruins. So you know, ups and downs.Still, there are advantages to following the religion of the foundation of civilization.
>>37867001Plus we didn't really have temples just so much standing stones used for moots and Star-gazing and the Romans saw no reason to topple them even in Christianity.I guess that's the good side of having a crude Science hidden away in your Mysticism, it sort of aligns up with other peoples crude sciences.
>>37867001Least you don't have to dig them up like us.>>37866996I always wanted to see Stonehenge, just because my heritage, and my ancestors may have had a hand in building it, it's in Wales, correct?
>>37867030Aren't the standing stones pre-Celtic?
>>37866911I've read only a little about it before. Ahura Mazda and Ahriman, a good/evil dichotomy, right? I'm not a huge fan of that concept, I like truth as goodness, and it might just be an interesting read, at the very least. Thanks, anon.I still continue my search for a spirituality to call my own. I have so much to choose from. Celtic, Norse, Slavic, Judaism (hint trace of God's Chosen People somewhere in me) and the slightest chance of Native American. But faith is hard to come by for me, unfortunately. I have no real love or pride of my ancestry, which might be a problem.
>>37867065Not that anon, but Stonehenge is in England, Salisbury Plain, if I'm not mistaken. You can't get near it anymore unless you're part of a pagan festival. They want to try and preserve it as much as possible, not have people going up and handling it, wearing away stone, littering, etc.
>>37867065Wiltshire, England.A county close to the welsh border so probably.>>37867101Stonehenge is actually several dozen different standing stones all put together in several different eras spanning thousands of years. It's actually Neolithic right through until early Iron Age in "Construction" and is a Symbol of Ancient English unity.
>>37866830>Sredni Vashtar>his God's name literally means the homeless middle-man
>>37867141If you choose a recon path, let me tell you, they are some of the most fulfilling, but challenging religions. Before I became an Asatruar, religion was boring. Hated it. Could not stand any other belief. Asatru is very fufilling if you can put time, and effort into forming a relationship with the Gods and your Wights, and Hel, possibly even forging stronger bonds with your ancestors. All recon paths are work, but amazing work.
>>37867141>I've read only a little about it before. Ahura Mazda and Ahriman, a good/evil dichotomy, right?Yes. You're expected to further the cause of goodness through your actions until ultimately Ahura Mazda can rid the universe of all evil and deceit. If memory serves me correctly, evil is justified as being an intrinsic part of creation, which embodies Ahura Mazda (Ahura Mazda is the universe, and the universe is Ahura Mazda).
>>37867188>chin chinI took it from a short story by Saki, called Sredni Vashtar, about a young kid who takes to worshipping a trapped animal in a shed and feeding it with offerings. He pleads for it to kill his shitty granny, and whether or not Sredni Vashtar answered his prayer is up to you to decide.I dunno, it resonated at the time, so I took the name as a sort of reference.
>>37867172I'd also note that Stone circles were probably copied from Neolithic England cultures into English-Celt lore because of cultural idea of a unified nature and circle stones being a connection of earth, aka the stones, and the stars, through the opening you create.So Stonehenge easily predates Celtic Druidism, and it's influence probably helped it realise the stars as a cultural significance.And that's why Wiccans think they're magic.
>>37867159I would probably be granted access, but under supervision. Fuckin celtic recons, trying to protect their heritage like good people, just let me be a true Viking and burn it for Odin.
>>37866017Would anyone like to listen to some Enochian chants?
>>37867253Also Stonehenge is fucking as old as 4000 BC and has deep pits located near is exterior.Really Deep Pits. Spooky. All filled in with dirt now mind.>>37867267>Burn down standing stones>Literally just stoneAnd this is why you Vikings named the warm country cold and the cold country warm!
>>37867293Shut up, you damn hippy! By the power of Odin I can burn whatever I fucking want! Freyr's huge dick said so!
>implying all gods don't exist and squabble with eachother from time to timeYHWH is just a Babylonian/Semitic god that managed to get an OP power boost and now christians, jews, and muslims control the world
>>37867293>>37867334You can burn rocks if you try hard enough.
>>37866805>"Your" gods>As an american>Worship the Pantheon of the great George Washington the Ignored Foreteller, John Madden the Patron of the Great Sport, the Dueling Brothers of Blue and Grey Lee and Sherman, and the Mother of Lust and Gluttony Britney Spears.
>>37867341>Implying he isn't the youngest brother of all the gods who got the great Mother of all the gods to let him play because it's his turn.>>37867358>Burning rocks>In EnglandI'm literally surprised Wicker men are a thing in English History due to all the Rain.
>>37867223Agreed. No small amount of research and effort required. I do at least a few rituals a week, and that's before I sworn to greet and end each day with the gods so as to become more pious. (Piety in this case meaning being honest and mindful of the gods)
>>37867291Fuuuuuuuck that shit. Nopenopenopenope. Magic, be it Satanic, be it Celtic, be it Odin himself, is not something I mess with. Hel, my sister is a fuckin Wiccan and she is prohibited from practicing magic of any type in my home. Some may say it's irrational fear, I say it's not a mortal thing to fuck with.
>>37867383>I'm literally surprised Wicker men are a thing in English History due to all the Rain.YOU CAN BURN THE RAIN IF YOU TRY HARD ENOUGHSTEAM BEFORE IT EVEN HITS THE GROUND
>>37867291I would like to hear some, please.
>>37867410Magic is barbarian nonsense. The only magic I respect is the power of the gods.The only divinations I take are the auspices, which tell me if the gods favor an action.Only our own labor, the acts of gods, and the world itself can change anything.Or so I believe.
>>37867410If I could, I would leave a spring of Holly in your house.Just to fuck with you.
>>37866853But humans couldn't have been clever or smart enough to lift a bunch of stones to make circles, it was obviously aliens friend!
How the fuck has this been the most pleasant religious discussion on the Internet? We are on a website considered to be one of the most unpleasant places ever. This is goddamn heresy.
>>37867482I disagree.Aliens could obviously not lift a bunch of Stones that well.Clearly only humans can lift stones that good. Aliens visited the world once and were like "Holy shit, these apes can LIFT STONE" and promptly left, erecting an anti-stone-lifting forcfield around the world should we ever use these powers for evil.Think about it, have we ever lifted a stone into space?
>>37867475noooooooope. I may be connected to the literal god of magic, and I can write in Elder Futhark, but magic is not cool. Mortals shouldn't trifle with shit like that, especially not ones of weak mind and skill.
>>37867493It is the will of Saint Walker and the Emperor.
>>37867557all will be well!
>>37867383there's a kind of power-leveling when it comes to gods;YHWH is kind of on his own level, a true representation of the demiurge with a mind incomprehensible to lowly universal beings, for all intensive purposes he's azathoth, yog-sothoth, and nyharlahotep combinedThen you've got universal gods, ones like Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Gaia, Uranos, etc.that essentially are entire cosmic concepts personified into beings of immense power.Now we get to the regional gods, which are mostly divided into pantheons and are based on much more local/specific concepts. These gods are basically the spiritual lords of the many, many tribes that inhabit the earth.On the lowest tier, you have stuff like fairies and wizards, or jesus if you take away YHWH's help.There's a bunch of exceptions as well as special outliers like Ananse who's a badass spider who don't give no shits and Zurvan who is the eternal great-grandfather of all time and spacetl;dr mysticism is cool
>>37867603I really liked that guy. But we mustn't get the saints mixed up here. That may start a war or schism.
>>37867410>2015>not being chaos magicianFree yourself from the shackles of your paradigm!
>>37867623>with a mind incomprehensible to lowly universal beings>Meanwhile..."Ew, that guy has foreskin, I hate foreskin, cut it off, and are those iron chariots? 2spook4me"Truely a being of understanding greater than anything in life.
>>37867662>Chaos Stopped there, The Emperor disapproves of heresy.
>>37867493>/tg/>you don't need other websites
>>37867623You missed Jupiter on the cosmic concepts list, bub.
>>37867703Heresy is fine, but chaos- no, get out of the empire.
>>37867623Technically though, Brahman Is on the level of YHWH as he is the divine creator of the cycle.Brahman is literally reality. Your Brahman, I'm Brahman, your soul is Brahman, Vishu is Brahman.Everything that ever has, ever will or ever MIGHT be is Brahman.I'd put Brahman as the demiurge, VHWH is more of a very influenced regional god.
>>37867493Because it isn't /x/ talking about religion which is basically /pol/ but with gods.
>>37867742It's not Heresy if you incorporate it as part of the Empire and just say it's another name for X god so said god doesn't kill you.
>>37867788I loved this Roman Logic.>Oh, the celts have a God of Storms who is important. Clearly he is Jupiter.... but me may also not be, better refer to him by his name AND Jupiter.>Now that god is happy clearly!
>>37867788Which is what the Romans did. Seems about as heretical as magic Electic Wicca.
>>37867697keep in mind cthulhu got spooked by a steamboat. doesn't mean he isn't the unholy god of the earth>>37867714Jupiter's a sky king, like odin or zeus>>37867770true, although YHWH just gets bonus points for being considered "outside of the universe" and having such massive global influencealso jews
>>37867854Can't mess with their results.Clearly Omitheism gets you somewhere.>>37867865But Brahman is the highest state of reality, so literally anywhere YHWH is, he must also exist, therefore, he is Brahman too.Brahman is like religious Demonbane.
>>37867865>odin is a sky king*grumbles* no he isn't.....so much heresy.....Odin is pretty much Asgard king. And unless Asgard is in the sky it isn't then he isn't sky king. Just because he's chief doesn't mean he is sky king.
>>37867736I found it while researching invented languages.
>>37867381Don't laugh, that might be what people think American religious views are in a thousand or so years.
>>37867865YWH more so has a very global influence, but "Outside of the Universe" is pure propaganda to give an illusion of them being a taller pedestal than they actually are.
Considering the decentralized nature of the old pagan faiths, I really don't think "accuracy" is as important as people like to make it out to be. A certain degree of authenticity is good, but putting your own spin on common myths is pretty standard practice from what I've read.
>>37867893The thing is, look at the texts they originate frombrahman is the representation of the universe, and everything in it. kind of like the duat in egyptian mythology. YHWH speaks in such an "otherworldly" sense, he just isn't of this place. frankly it's unsettlingalso Brahman is usually divided up into all the little gods of hinduism we know, and he's very rarely associated with a single beingnot trying to argue a religious point or anything, it's just my interpretation of the various religious texts. I've built a whole setting on the idea of all religions existing side-by-side including the cthulhu mythos)>>37867916asgard is "above earth", so for all intensive purposes it IS in the sky.
>>37867893YHWH is also the highest state of reality, according to abrahamic religions. you can't really have multiple supreme beings in the same system, they are mutually exclusive. there's also waheguru (in sikhism) and the monad (in greek philosophy and gnosticism).
>>37867919Doesn't that shit force Angels out of your home? I may be an Asatruar, but that is a fucking terrifying concept.
>>37867848Ah, good old Jupiter-Othergod.Excuse me, I need to go worship Juno-Isis.
>>37868023>it's actually backwards>They're all just related
>>37868009Asgard is an entirely different plane of existence. It is impossible to reach Asgard, as far as we know without leaving this plane of existence. There's a difference between plane of existence and the sky.
>>37868012>YHWH is also the highest state of realityWasn't he just a god of war for a region of the middle East for a while before his cult grew powerful and shenanigans happened?
>>37868066Indeed.Meanwhile Brahman's idenity has been softened a little more to make him well.... worship able.How the fuck can you Worship EVERYTHING?
>>37867865Jupiter is the Sky, he's not just Zeus.He's Jupiter Optimus Maximus, he's viewed with significantly more regal kingship, a bit closer to Ahura Mazda in that sense.
>>37868014>force outOh, you silly man. It's meant to SUMMON them. :D
>>37868098Does he shoutPantheon Transform and Roll out!Also I thought Sol Invictus was the big god in Roman times?
>>37868063it's the concept, not the semanticsno matter how you word it Odin fits the archetype for the king of the gods, just like zeus and jupiterhis association with the sky is evidence of that link>>37868098comparing zeus to ahura mazda is ridiculouszoroastrianism is based on a dichotomy of good vs evil, light vs darkthere is no such thing in most polytheistic religions
>>37868103I'd still not want any being of unbelievable power forced out or welcomed into my home. Hence why I don't perform blot in my home. My house wight is kind to me because I'm kind to it, and I don't want to kick that out, because he's actually a pretty OK guy. (Long story that one)
>>37868142Buuuuut he is not king of the Sky. He may be godchief, but not king of the sky. You can't win this one, Anakin. I have the higher ground.
>>37868158YOU CANNOT ESCAPE ME ODINFAGI AM ALREADY IN YOUR HOUSEFEAR ME
>>37867865>keep in mind cthulhu got spooked by a steamboat. doesn't mean he isn't the unholy god of the earthR'lyeh is on a cosmic scale that tipped over for a second and Cthulhu's psychic nightmare mind wave shat over the planet for a second, then the scale tipped back and, well, what has risen may sink, and what has sunk may rise. Cthulhu's just a symbol of the unknown and the chaotic fear and confusion it brings to human beings. He's small fry compared to Yog-Sothoth, though.
>>37867992This is a good view. I like this one.
>>37868187I think the correct overarching term is Allfather anyway.>>37868199Clearly the solution is hitting Yog-Sothoth with a bigger boat.
>>37868197Hail, Sol Invictus!May you be honored forever for your light!Not entirely sure why you are haunting the north though, you hang out there a lot.
>>37868197By Odin's curly pube hairs........
>>37868066yes, but emphasis on the "was". gods change depending on when and where they are woshipped, there have been many "YHWHs". he's been the supreme being for a long time now, in the relevant belief-systems.
>>37868014It actually summons them.And knowing a fair bit about Judeo-Christian angels, it is indeed terrifying.
>>37868197>>37868158Asatrufag, quick, do the thing!
>>37868199Cthulhu is just the Mythos pope anyway.
>>37868228BECAUSE I AM TRYING TO SCORE SOME AURORA BOREALIS POON OF COURSE.
>>37868187alright, I'll concedebut I could still see Odin bragging about how awesome Thor is to zeus, who's busy fighting off the swollen, ravenous sol invictu->>37868197speak of the devil
>>37868227>yfw Yog-Sothoth is literally space and time itself>yfw Yog-Sothoht is also a separate entity>yfw you're part of Yog-Sothoth's archetype>we're gonna need a bigger boat
>>37868227Odin has an assload of names. I personally start any blot to him by refering him to as "Mighty Odin, the Allfather". He's got a whole dick load of names though, and I bet he's got a whole bunch of more interesting things to do than caring what mortals call him
>>37868284>The only thing that stops the mad Demon Sultan from weaking up is his fear that his own nightmares may be real>Boats may exist.
>>37868225Well, there's a reason there's dozens of recorded names for Odin, all stemming from the root name Wodanaz and all with their own particular mythological connotations attached to them. Faith varied between village to village, family to family, and even individual to individual. So what you think of the gods is an important facet of your faith; I would say the most important actually.
>>37868272BEGONE HERETIC. YOU ARE NOT WELCOME IN THIS 100% ALL NORDIC THREAD. SHOO, PEASANT.
>>37868352WHY ARE YOU HATING ODIN, YOU USED TO BE COOL.
>>37868392HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAWHERE'S YOUR SUN BOAT AND STUPID BEAK-HEAD NOW?
>>37868446get the fuck out of here>>37868392>>37868352hey guys, how's it goingso yeah, apparently I'm a saint and not a god anymorewhatevs
>>37868392>>37868446So much heresy.
>>37868511A Romano-Briton who got kidnapped into Ireland, escaped, and went back.He's not even Irish.This fucking country, man.
>>37868511>hey guys, how's it going so yeah, apparently I'm a saint and not a god anymore.Wait what. When was St. Patrick a god?
>>37861321>Zoroastrianism>Polytheistic>Laughing Zurastura.tablet>>37866037You know who else have three (technically 6) afterlives?Mormons
>>37869447>calling me a Mormon.Them's fighting words buddy.Totally right about the Zoroastrianist thing, but still.
>>37869609Eh, Mormons are mostly harmless in my book. Despite being crazy and obsessed with emergency prep, they at least won't mail you a dead animal carcass or tell you that you're going to hell since they don't believe in hell the way most Christians do..Heck, they aren't even really Christian since they refuse some of the principles of the Nicene Creed, really they're some weird middle ground between Jew and Christian with maybe some other stuff mixed in. Plus they tend to be the first people on the ground helping people when a crises happens.Add in the fact they're one of the few religions still building swag temples, where able to Terraform a lifeless wasteland, where the first people to support and sponsor the BSA, and invented the TV, Browning Machine Gun, and the Original KFC Recipe, all the while running from people due to the government actually passing laws not only allowing but also encouraging their extermination, kinda puts them in a cool light even if thier Holy Book does read like a piece of fanfiction.Except for the Fundies and RLDS, screw those guys.
>>37869809My family has had some problems with them, so I'm rather more hostile. I don't know about the main church, but a lot of the smaller groups are fucking awful cults that try and brainwash people, more or less.
Bugs me when people blame Catholicism for what non-Catholic Christians do.Just because they are the biggest target doesn't make them the right target
>>37869847Those are probably the Fundies, RLDS, or one of the small splinter heretic groups that the church has officially renounced due to heresy, like the Mormon Mafia from the former Soviet Bloc that formed when communications between the church and its slavic members broke down when the Iron Curtain descended.The main church places big emphasis of personal freedom and agency, and generally tell its members toseek personal prayer and scriptural study to determine if they really wanna stay or not, since being a luke-warm or inactive member will actually net you a worse afterlife than being just a good non-member.Granted they'll still probably try to perform baptismal rites for you after you pass away, just in case at any point in the afterlife you want to convert. You don't have to take it, but its there if you want it.
>>37869955Friendly reminder that if you let them do that you go straight to hell
>>37869970That seems silly, if getting a posthumous baptism from the Mormons sends you to hell, then how are you supposed to stop that from happening when your already dead? No just or rational God would mandate such a thing since it was after your lifetime and thus beyond your choice.Checkmate Westboro Baptists!
>>37870069You go to hell if you are a Westboro Baptist too
>>37870103You didn't answer the question though
>>37870117Sorry I thought you meant a deathbed baptism, after you are dead it doesn't matter because your soul is already (hopefully!) in heaven
>>37870144That's cool. Then again posthumous babtism isn't really a common thing anymore in any other religion since Constantine banned the practice.Really that's one of the interesting things about Mormons, in that they don't really see death as a final end of life, just as one of the key moments.Hell, even Lucifer will be given a second chance following his Millennia of imprisonment after he's defeated and locked away during the final resurrection.
>>37869970Nah. Only your first baptism counts, they can try their heathen curse all they want.