Welcome to the XLV installment of "Disney Villains Victorious."Disney Villains Victorious is a new /tg/ homebrew project based on the idea of a world, not entirely unlike our own, in which all the villains from all the Disney animated feature films were not defeated at the ends of their movies but were instead victorious, completing their goals in part or in whole.It is a world in which Ursula rules the seas, defied only by the uncatchable Pirate Lords, the cutthroat merchants of the East India Trading Company and the might of Atlantis and its magitech-toting mercenaries. It is a world where the grasslands and jungles and forests are prowled not only by fearsome primal beasts like Shere Kahn and Scar but also by the ruthless, tireless hunters that stalk them. It is a world where Europe has been divvied up between evil sorcerous monarchs like Maleficent, the Horned King, Grimhilde and Jafar, mad, inquisitorial clergymen like Frollo, and Dark Gods like Hades and Chernobog.It is not, however, a world completely devoid of courage, heroism or hope. Around the world, the PCs' characters and their allies plot and plan, fight and strive and win their own victories against the villains that would rule them. The time to fight and to be free is now.http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?searchall=Disney+Villains+Victorioushttp://1d4chan.org/wiki/Disney_Villains_Victorious
>>36481423King/Land/Rule: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Disney_Villains_Victorious_K/L/RsAdventurer's Almanac: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kI-I-ClcaZc4YPFQzmExOxfqzHAsLOkqLnKufm9Ty5c/edit?pli=1 Setting Traits: http://pastebin.com/8RRbwMQTBeast Species: http://pastebin.com/PwVr9VeT (Probably a bit out of date, should move to 1d4chan if we're agreed on the stats)TRAITS: http://pastebin.com/TJXncd7APOWERS:http://pastebin.com/pQDDqisUFluff Catalogue: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qj_IIuF_rqh_F2L-SeYn-dBiwDTtwWFpnbcXyfcgeE8/editSong Catalogue: (google doc) 1oQniqbLaTCF7V19fnXP0_zUW7GFr3ESziGM6U5mEcC0/editRumour Mill: (google doc) 17CzFrAblibwD__7sEYorqXSz4ILYVp1O4tcQ-mGyYiI/edit?usp=sharingVillain Immortality: http://pastebin.com/kA1wsUzVNational Anthems: http://pastebin.com/Gd9rETxbChimera Races: http://pastebin.com/B8SkUwWB (Out of date, needs to be updated)First Playtest: http://pastebin.com/Vy1E0sHBSecond playtest:http://pastebin.com/qE1kW0YYThird playtest: http://pastebin.com/sWj8Y87vFourth Playtest: http://pastebin.com/SHieN5zLFifth Playtest: http://pastebin.com/TGctR8VAGoogle doc for character creation:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m8XSm73Ea4ECdDdP9V4IVJCEBji6HPw43LRPyUCDmx4/edit?usp=sharingPlaytests are hosted here; https://app.roll20.net/join/585117/yX0x1wMagic IRC is hosted on Mibbit, network is AsyloIRC, room is #DVVmagicPoll: How hard should it be to kill the Horned King?http://strawpoll.me/3094209Experimental new rules for Yzmic Chimeras http://pastebin.com/p2QaTaiB
>>36481450>My IRC link is in one of the first postsThis pleases your wizard overlords.
>>36481488It was in the last thread, too.Experimental BEE KNIGHT rules: Hive Knight:Size: Medium!Natural weapons: Stingers provide +2 to BrawlRacial Traits:HoneyHoneyHooney, Honey!: When those other fuckers are sleeping, you are producing sweet delicious honey. Honey can be used to reduce an enemies Agility by 2, or restore two Strikes. Ursine characters suffer -4 Agility from the honey. One Honey stack is produced once per day. Stacks up to 5 stacks at Zero, increasing to 10 at On-A-Roll and 15 at Hero. Excess honey must be either sold, used, or discarded immediately.Flight: Each piece of armor can be disassembled quickly. The bees carry the armor, and you can take to the motherfucking skies as a bee cloud.Drones: Can send out little flying fuckers to gather information or pick up small objects. These lil fuckers are dumb, but can report back to you so long as they don't have to make any decisions on the way. They get +2 to stealth, and an additional +2 against humans, on account of being all tiny and shitAmorphous: +2 to Prevent HarmAttributes: +2 Robustness, +2 Intelligence, -2 AgilityBug Type: take a -2 penalty against fire damage
>>36481501At this point, I haven't been looking for myself in the OP because I gave up hope.
Father forgive meI tried not to do itTurned over a new leafthen tore right through itWhatever you taught meI didn't believe itFather you fought me'cause I didn't careand I still don't understandFatherI'm sorry
>tried my hand at a K/L/R, will have to do until someone more skilled comes along. Credit to the original anons for the parts that are shamelessly stolen.King - Shere Khan, King of Tigers and Maharajahdhiraj of IndiaPowerful, sophisticated and full of vigour, Shere Khan is the very image of a tiger and a ruler. Once contented with being the most feared and respected predator in the jungle, his lust for power awakened after he killed the arrogant man-cub who dared to challenge him and his bear protector Baloo. Realizing now there was nothing to stop him, he declared himself lord and master of the entire jungle and turned most of the Indian sub-continent in his personal hunting grounds by claw and fear.Legends tell that before his fall from grace the First Tiger was appointed by Tha, Father of Elephants, as the Master and Judge of all animals; the Dread King has fully embraced the title of his ancestor and personally enforces his laws with sudden, swift and brutal violence. Except for this he has no taste for the endless paperwork and formalities of government, leaving most of the actual ruling to his right-hand man Tabaqui the jackal.
>>36482216and - The Shere KhanateOne of the Tiger King's first acts was to impose a rigid caste system on his subjects, which they are expected to follow religiously. Felines are obviously the highest class: essentially royalty, they are free to break most of the laws without fear of their lord's retribution and allowed to hunt any other animals (bar simians) wth impunity.Simians have a complicated place in Shere Khan's kingdom: political ties with the Kingdom of the Red Flower put them second only to the great cats in terms of rights and leeway, but exactly for this reason most of their fellow animals see them as intruders, upstart foreigners reaping benefits they don't deserve.Below apes and cats are the Great Beasts: elephant, wolves, snakes and generally anyone powerful or impressive enough to be marked for special treatment. They form the medium-upper class of society and still enjoy a certain amount of freedom.Every other animal falls into the category of the Lesser Beasts, plagued with poverty, low life expectancy and draconian laws and often used as a source of prey for nobler citizens.Finally, at the very bottom of society, are the humans: now robbed of the weapons and the red flower he feared so much, the Dread King's sworn enemies are reduced to Untouchables, the lowest of the low. Beasts are forbidden from associating with them and even encouraged to hinder, stalk and kill any who tries to enter his realm.So pervasive is his power and so great the dread he inspires that this caste system is being partially applied even in Louie's and Kaa's lands; Only Hati's children, Rama's pack and the Free Creatures rallying under Baghera's banner still have the strength to oppose it.
>>36482223Rule - In the Forest of the NightIn villages and communities a veneer of civilization still holds, but in the deepest jungle, Shere Khan's real kingdom, there is no noise. Not the sound of monkeys, chirping of birds or the sound of paws; every animal is stuck in the darkest dread. The party will always feel as if they are being watched by something that could kill them at that very moment, and every noise they make sounds, to them, as if they had just blasted a warhorn and called....it. What is it? You don't know, and you want to find out even less. If you don't find a way to keep your courage up, you might yourself fall to the paralyzing fear.
>>36482216>>36482223>>36482229these are good but the Rule could use some more elaboration
is there anybody out there?
>>36482718I'm here. I just have nothing to contribute.
Next playtest will be at 7:00 EST on Tuesday, December 2nd. I haven't decided what the power level will be yet. If you want to play, you can join us here; https://app.roll20.net/join/585117/yX0x1w
>>36483278what time is it for you Nob?
>>36482412Sorry, I got home only now. Any suggestion for a better rule?
>>36483336like, the playtest? 7:00PM.Right now? 10:00 AM, exactly.
>>36483450oh, on my end its 15:34 and I'm the only one keeping the thread from sinking
>>36483813It's early where I am (well, early-ish. Mid-morning, really) but that's not the point. Do we have any villains planned for the Wild West or am I free to do as I please with creating them?
>>36483851Eh, knock yourself out I say. Maybe have Slim's Rogh Riders be shout outs to famous outlaws.
>all that arguing last nightSheesh. What's the matter with that guy, did a magic switchblade kill his parents right before he was assraped by 20 knights or something? Magic weapons are totally optional. If you sacrifice yourself to the Black Cauldron, you'll be revived by the Witches of Morva just like Gurgi was. If HK doesn't get sucked into the Cauldron when its powers are destroyed, he can still be defeated by any conventional method - actually, forget that, I'm going to say he's DONE the moment the powers of the Cauldron are destroyed.The bees are frigging hilarious though.Anyhow:>House of Mouse: Hades makes amorous advances on Maleficent.>House of Villains: Churned Up Bog tells Maleficent that he likes her work.>Hades' realm touches Maleficent's.>So would Bald Mountain if the Dread One pushed through the Mirror Kingdom just a little more.Please let Hades and Churned Up Bog vying for Maleficent's affection be a thing.
>>36484133People didn't like it because it was a convention to a book that was not actually part of the Disney canon, it's a book that was RELATED to a movie that Disney made. Moreover, it screws over parties whose Strong Guy isn't human, because the Horned King's Prevent Harm is way too high for someone to hit them untrained. Lastly, if someone HAS to sacrifice themself to the Cauldron to defeat the Horned King, now you've made a lot of work for the GM if the player doesn't want to leave the campaign because now he's dead and a new character needs to be shoehorned in. It's a viable campaign option, sure, but it's not something that should be part of the standard 'players save every country in the world' ruleset.
>>36483420No, seriously, I have no idea on how to expand it further, but It was one of the very first things written for the setting (somewhere in the first ten threads) and thus I'd like to keep it. Any of you gentlemen have suggestions?
>>36484221>Lastly, if someone HAS to sacrifice themself to the Cauldron to defeat the Horned King, now you've made a lot of work for the GM if the player doesn't want to leave the campaign because now he's dead and a new character needs to be shoehorned in.So just remind them that Gurgi was brought back after his own sacrifice, and that their death will ultimately be temporary because DISNEY MAGIC.What I think I've learned from this is that magic weapons should explicitly only be shortcuts to defeating a king, not the only means to defeating them. The increased power of a magic weapon alone should be enough to encourage players to seek them out before facing a king. So if I want an enchanted weapon to be the shortcut to defeating Maleficent's dragon form, what should the normal route be?
>>36483851>>36483966I believe that some Disney tall tales were being included. What I remember is this>Paul Bunyan patrolling the Olympic forests in the north>Jonny appleseed in the east>Pecos bill fucking shit up in the southwestAlso, new DTP tonight, sorry for laziness
>>36484590I can dig it.
>>36484566>>36484590Yzma potions. With her skills, she can turn anything useful into a smoking mess instantly.
What was Queen La's victory condition? Having Tarzan as her brainwashed king consort, sort of like a gender-switched Jaffar/Jasmine?
>>36484672Provided Tarzan wasn't whacked in the crib by Sabor. Otherwise, it's just typical political and military domination.
>>36484580Casey Jones makes the rounds too, picking up refugees from the Shadowlands or El Dorado.
>>36484590>>36484617>>36484634Also, thought I had. All villains should be possible to finish by gravity, both by falling themselves and by having heavy things fall on them.
>>36485119Makes sense, plummeting 200 feet and screaming until you die off-camera is the Disney way.
>>36485270More powerful ones might have to have some special about the fall; Frollo's fall has to in some way symbolize him going to Hell, Mor'du can't be crushed by something mundane (a menhir counts because it is a religious monument).Wait a minute.....the Black Cauldron was created when Arawn was thrown into molten iron, what happens if Frollo falls into molten copper as he was in the movie? Might the PCs, without knowing it, create an indestructible evil artifact?
>>36485356Is that what happened? Can we make that an element of Frollo's backstory? They won, but in doing so turned Frollo into a Lich and created his phylactery?
>>36485497.......yeah, that could work. Put that one on the rumor mill, whoever keeps track of it.
>>36485497>>36485520Wait a minute, wait a minute.Does this mean that Frollo has his own version of the Black Cauldron? How does his one work?
>>36485356>>36485497>>36485520It'd be unintentional if anything, because I'm pretty sure Arawn was all "screw you guys I'm going to have eternal unholy skeleton vengeance" whereas Frollo would be more "daaaaaamnatioooooon."
>>36485623In which case, he'd probably view it as a blessing from God.Also, if he's undead, does he spend all his time crucifying himself so he can be more Christ-like? I just have this image of the players entering Frollo's cathedral, and seeing him hanging on a great golden crucifix, glaring down at them.
>>36485581Iron (and by extension steel, since 'cold iron' is actually the same sort of euphemism as 'hot lead') is the metal used to punch magic in the cock, and thus it was able to contain Arawn's dark power and prevent the mists from spilling out if no one called them out. While Frollo is no freaking lord of death, copper does not possess much magic-cockpunching abilities.....I'd say it turns into a hellfire cannon.
>>36485715Is Cold Iron just normal iron even in this setting?Because when I made HUnnish China I kinda went off the assumption that cold iron was some specialy-crafted shit
>>36485803Cold iron in the context of most rpgs is unrefined iron....which I personally think is stupid. Granted, I know that it's there so that you have to have special weapons to harm fae but not to require magical weapons to harm the fae, but there's no way it makes sense in universe. If it's the iron itself that harms the fae, steel actually has a higher iron content than cast iron, iron ore or pig iron and should be the most potent against the fae. If it's the unrefinedness, then the optimal fae-killing strategy is to bash their skulls in with a big piece of iron ore.....which sounds pretty fucking cool now that I think about it.
>>36485912Eh, in the version I heard of, cold iron is basically name for iron tools that have been hammered on a cold anvilMade me think that the idea is sort of neat for a modern day setting: Nobody uses anvils anymore except for small time blacksmiths so most weapons would be useless against faeIn the disney setting people probably still use anvils all the time though, so we gotta give it a sort of "rare" nature to justify even mentioning it in Hunnish China and not making the huns just slash away all the spirits.I vote for it to be a combination of saying/carving some special shit over the anvil and then using it
>>36485980Or the iron has to be mined from a special place, or it has to be quenched in special water, or the carbon has to come from a special bog....something small like that.
>>36486049>Special bog Cherno's bogHuns confirmed for not giving a fuck and mining on the edge of Chrobog's land to get the cold iron
>>36485980By the way, where did you hear of this 'cold anvil' version?
>>36485356You are not allowed to bring the Prydain books on as canon. Lloyd Alexander actually said that he liked the movie only as a standalone movie, but that it wasn't representative of the books. That's like me bringing in all of Greek mythology just because Disney made Hercules
>>36486087Just around the internet, I was doing some research. Might've been even in wikipedia; I couldn't find a version that sounded as cool so I stuck with that one
>>36486110Oh, knock it off. Between the movie and the show, they covered the majority of Greek mythology anyways, if only a kiddy gloves version.
>>36485803Could iron is to iron as got lead is to lead. All iron works
>>36486143Yeah, but that's boring
>>36482223Hey, someone remembered my caste system! I love it.
>>36484133> If you sacrifice yourself to the Black Cauldron, you'll be revived by the Witches of Morva just like Gurgi wasThat would have been very fucking useful a thread ago.
Realized I should probably post this.KLRs left:Queen La of the Kingdom of the LeopardKings left to stat:Sorcerer-Sultan Jafar of AgrabahMaleficent the Faerie QueenGrimhilde the Fair Queen of the Mirror KingdomQueen La of the Leopard KingdomEmpress Yzma of the Sunless EmpirePontifex Immortalis Frollo of the Grand ArchdioceseTzekel-Kan of El DoradoGovernor Radcliffe of VirginiaImperial President Lyle Tiberius Rourke of the Imperial Republic of AtlantisThe Huntsmen of the Elite Global Huntsman ClubChairman Cutler Beckett of the East India Trading Co.Hades of OlympiaUrsula of All-OceansThe Aurora of the Spirit RealmScar, High King of the PridelandsKing Louis of the Kingdom of the Red FlowerBagheera, Lord of the Free CreaturesShere Khan of the Shere KhanateKaa the Ancient of the Subjugate of KaaMor'du of the Land of the BearKing Ratigan of the Under-Empire
>>36486134They have a butchered ultra wholesome version of a small facet of it. Just on the myth of Hercules, they changed his mother from being a mortal to bring Hera, they changed the primary antagonist from Hera to Hades because MUH CHRISTIAN SATAN ANALOG, changed Zeus from a lecherous asshole to a loving father, and took away Hercules' motivating to do all the things he did. The point is that you can't pull from having adapted source material and call it canon. Also, I really don't like Hercules
>>36486374>Zeus from a lecherous asshole to a loving fatherActually I think he was still pretty good to Hercules in the original myth. Or at least that's what I remember.
>>36486331Also Elsa probably needs a buff.
>>36482216>Tabaqui the jackalWho?
>>36486397It wasn't anywhere close. I watched it two nights ago and everything I said was true
>>36486374And so I adapted the source material. Magic weapons are completely optional, the default method to kill HK is exactly what it was in the movie. I have gone back and done revisions based on criticism I have received. What more do you want?
>>36486374Stop talking about it, then. Home on the Range is far worse than Hercules could ever hope to be, even with muh mythology, but Alameda Slim still controls a swathe of the Southwestern US.
>>36486473Shere Khan's henchman from Kipling's book, I borrowed some things from there to flesh it up a bit. For example, in the movie Shere Khan was happy with being the apex predator in his neck of the woods while in the book he's a power-hungry asshole who wants to rule all the jungle.
>>36486500the point is that the source material means nothing. The author of the book, Lloyd Alexander is actually quoted as saying: ""First, I have to say, there is no resemblance between the movie and the book." The movie stands alone, if only because the author cut ties between it and the source material.
>>36486610I think Tabaqui was in one of the earlier cuts of the filml.>For example, in the movie Shere Khan was happy with being the apex predator in his neck of the woods while in the book he's a power-hungry asshole who wants to rule all the jungle.Between that and the fact that he's not crippled in the movie makes me feel like movie Shere Khan is a young tiger in his prime who is utterly proud of and confident in himself while book Shere Khanis an old, bitter tiger who's overcompensating for being well past his prime.
>>36486500By the way, we made a strawpoll to pick the method to kill the Horned King:http://strawpoll.me/3094209Making a hero kill himself to fit your vision of the story, only to be brought back in a very specific way the way that you want him to is pretty clear railroading. Again, this seems fine for a campaign, bad for a setting
>>36486821What if Shere Khan was crippled in his final battle with Mowgli and Baloo and this whole "conquer all of India and force everyone in castes" thing is his way to show everyone (but mostly himself) he's still the fucking King Tiger? A plot hook could be that he's desperately searching for a way to become young and healthly again.
>>36486738If the source material meant nothing, Disney would be making completely original stories.>>36486839>trusting a poll made when most people aren't onWe agreed very early on that except for the weakest of kings, all kings would be puzzle bosses or otherwise have some sort of catch to defeating them. Please, explain to me your alternative. Unless you don't have one, in which case, fashion yourself a dunce cap and wear it while sitting in a corner.
>>36486961And he's right next to the Hunnic Empire too...
>>36485108I knew I was forgetting one
>>36486961In the book he was lame from birth, to the point his mother had named him Lugri ("cripple"). Maybe it's a nickname used by Baghera or his other enemies. We could give him a trait that give a bonus to social rolls to taunt or provoke if the players know his real name.
>>36486966Calm the fuck down. The point of the poll was to be reposted in the morning and we would wait for a lot of people to be on. And the source material means nothing TO THIS RPG. I KNOW that you love the Prydain books, you've made that abundantly clear, and they are good books, but we are dealing exclusively with Disney animated movies here, not book series, no matter how great. We can't bring in things that were never in any Disney movie just because they were there in something a Disney movie was based on.
>>36487096Villains winning was never in any Disney movies. Nor was a lich Frollo, nor an elite global club of hunters, nor Buldeo, nor Clarisse, nor Friends On The Other Side who are interested in anything other than souls. It's a bit of a grey zone.
>>36487191Yes, and those are all based on things FROM DISNEY MOVIES. As opposed to the Prydain books. Something based on the Prydain books was a Disney movie, but we're looking at that movie, not the original source material. It's the same reason that Hades in this setting doesn't do a much better job of running Greece than the other gods did.
>>36487259Problem is, the movies are incomplete; there are a great deal of details they don't go into, questions they don't answer. If we need that information, then the source material is the best place to look for it, provided it doesn't directly contradict the Disney canon. My proposals never contradicted the Disney canon, they are purely issues with gameplay and campaigning.Now, what alternative do you offer?
>>36487259Exactly. Thank you
I think I came up with a way to settle thishttp://strawpoll.me/3098307
>>36487371We just make up whatever we want because we don't need to base it off of the original source material. Like, you can if you want to, but you shouldn't make it so we HAVE to.
>>36487430Wow. That strawtroll though. On the note of non-super-biased strawpolls, you should all make sure to vote on the Horned King one:http://strawpoll.me/3094209
>>36487371Dude. Alexander Lloyd himself said that the film was unrelated to the Prydain universe. Everyone except you acknowledged that the Prydain universe and the Black Cauldron universe should be counted as separate things.Stop.
>>36487450Then put up or shut up. What should catch to the HK's death be if not what I have proposed?
http://strawpoll.me/3098307/rI love that Knight actually voted on this.>>36487532Exactly
I don't see no problem with using the original material to flesh out the setting a bit as long as we mostly stay faithful to the Disney version, be it Prydain, the Jungle Book or Voodoo tradition.
>>36487551We were talking about the whole "black cauldron made by Arawn getting molten iron'd" thing. Although I still think that's a pretty cool idea. Still, you do not have free reign to just say "It was in the Prydain books, so it's canon." That's the point we're making.
>>36487551HE ALREADY TURNS INTO A FUCKING SNAKE WHEN YOU KILL HIM, WHY DOES HE NEED ANOTHER CATCH? You made him super-powerful to the point where if he's in a campaign I'm in, I'm gonna go for a Sunnydale Graduation Day and just blow up a castle on top of him, we're just debating how you kill him A SECOND TIME. There was already a catch when he turned into a fucking snake
>>36487662You retard.You fucking retard.Arawn being cast into iron was explicitly narrated in the minute of the fucking movie.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49h6584Q1Ag>>36487708Snake's been edited out.
>>36487781You could have just said that originally. Also, when was the snake edited out?
>>36487781>Snake's been edited outWhen and why? That was something that nobody actually objected to, why get rid of it?
>>36487781Calm the hell down, Knight. We're sticking to the animated canon as much as possible, and that's all I'll say.
>>36487803I had no idea that the molten iron was the point of contention. It first appeared you were spazzing for no reason at all, and I accepted that because it happens all the time on 4chan.Snake was removed last night. If you look, you'll see it's not there anymore.Truly, miscommunication is the greatest trouble that plagues man.
>>36487865why did you get rid of the snake? That wasn't something that I saw anyone disagree with, it was just the ways to kill the snake.
Alright I decided to make an animal character in case there's ever an all animal party. Here's the stats for the animal.-HedgehogsSize: SmallNatural weapons: Claws and Spines provide +2 to Brawl. Racial Traits:Prickly/IT HURTS MY HANDS: All damage taken from Brawl attacks is also reflected back at the attacker.Rollin' Around: You can spend a Will point to go into Ball mode for your next two turns. Ball Mode grants +2 Robustness and Agility, along with making all attacks agility based.Nocturnal: -1 Sensibility during the day, +2 Sensibility during the night.Attribute Bonuses: +2 Agility, +2 Robustness, -2 Intelligence.Looks good?>>36487708>You made him super-powerful Actually compared to other Kings the Horned King isn't actually that powerful. He's like right in the middle. Plus we haven't statted must of the other Kings so there really isn't a comparison yet. And PC's are monstrously lethal, even at Zero tier, so I think it balances out.
>>36487814Didn't come up in the movie, threw it out while I was editing anyways.Also, to clarify: He doesn't turn into a snake after you've killed him the first time. He turns into a snake after you've killed him the first time AND he no longer has any strikes left.
>>36487938So he had 3 lives? First when he's just the Horned King, second when he is Arawn, third when he's a snaky version of Arawn? Also, I think we should change it so he has to have time to draw the power into him, so it isn't automatic if he's blindsided
>>36487992No, my intention was for him not to regain any strikes when he becomes a serpent (it's more of a death throes thing) though I'd certainly be open to that IF he decide he needs a buff. And given that he's probably got lots of Cauldronborn around to block PCs, he can certainly survive needing to take 3 rounds to absorb Arawn's power.
>>36487919the Robustness buff doesn't really make sense. Hedgehogs are not known for their powerful physiques. I'd go +2 Agi +2 Int -2 Rob, instead, just because he's so small.>>36488075This is my proposal:1. Normal HK. Down to 2 or 3 strikes, will use a turn to absorb power, become snaky HK2.Snaky HK. +k1 to everything, other powers. If you hurt him enough, he dies. Don't throw too many twists at the players just because you can. If he's underpowered, we can buff his stats, not make fighting him a 3-hour slog because he gets back up every time he is about to die, a bit stronger. He's not an anime protagonist.
>>36487919Robustness bonus is really odd, also the second part of the racial power is superfluous since all melee attack can be made with either Robustness or Agility without needing a trait.
>>36488190Alright, but 3 things:1) No snakes. The reason I included the snake form is because of something he did in the books, and the more we work with this the less sense it makes.2) We should still have shortcuts to his defeat: magic weapons do double strikes, and sacrificing oneself to the Black Cauldron will most likely kill him.3) He should still get all his strikes and a single will point back from absorbing Arawn's powers.
>>36488389Fine, although Hivan could easily kill him. Just saying. If we wanted to playtest it, a Heroic Hivan could probably kill him a turn or two.
>>36488504Just to be clear, this is just because I would send in all of my little drones to cauldron-dive and that would kill him.
>>36488504By jumping into the Black Cauldron? It hasn't been determined exactly how it's protected yet; there could be the webs of countless Cauldronborn spiders blocking your way.
>>36488564I'd rule that they aren't smart enough for their sacrifice to be meaningful.
>>36488564The sacrifice should be made willingly. I don't think that a mindless drone executing the queen's order counts.
>>36488592Damn. I was looking forward to one-shotting a king with my little bees.
Now that we got that settled: What other Kings should have that 'free intimidate check against everyone every turn' power that HK and Shan have? My list is>Maleficent's dragon form, possibly her normal form too.>Kraken-scale Ursula>Motherfucking Shere Khan>Motherfucking Mor'du>All seamonsters>Firebird>Churned Up Bog, except he gets double
>>36481423Worst thing teegee has ever shat out. Might have been good if genderqueer neofascist LGBT SJW tumblrites hadn't hijacked it
>>36488696How did they hijack us?
>>36488696Are you in the wrong thread? We haven't really seen any SJWs around here. Closest we got to having Tumblr come in was the shipping that used to happen.
>>36488696>>36488755>literally a string of buzzwords thrown togetherPay the wizards no mind; they have no power here.
>>36488696same thing happened to the creepy gas station attendant thing. won't be surprised if the final rules for THIS garbage have "cis: negative trait; -4 int due to never facing oppression like the REEL HEERO'S!!!"
>>36488781>muh wizards>'they' have no power here>literally admitting to SJWism and separatism from the rest of /tg/OK
>>36488190>>36488321Alright, fixed.-HedgehogsSize: SmallNatural weapons: Claws and Spines provide +2 to Brawl. Racial Traits:Prickly/IT HURTS MY HANDS: All damage taken from Brawl attacks is also reflected back at the attacker.Rollin' Around: You can spend a Will point to go into Ball mode for your next two turns. Ball Mode grants +2 Robustness and Agility.Can be picked up and thrown like a Ranged Weapon in this form.Nocturnal: -1 Sensibility during the day, +2 Sensibility during the night.Attribute Bonuses: +2 Agility, -2 Robustness, +2 Intelligence.>>36488696>>36488785I don't WhatThat didn't happen to The Night Shift eitherDid you do a drug
>>36488627Hey, you never know: Grimhilde might have an allergy to bee stings. I imagine if you ruin her face, she'll save everyone the trouble of throwing her off a high ledge.
>>36488854By wizards he means trolls. By they he means said trolls. Nobody admitted to being an SJW. Please leave.
>>36488854Assuming that you aren't trolling (a low shot, but I'm one to take the bait) we've had plenty of trolls on the project and usually call them wizards due to their insistence on 3.5e magicians.
Don't give the troll attention. Back to serious business, is anyone up for the last K/L/R?
>>36488854Nah, Knightfag just gets extra butthurt over anything to do with Villains Victorious. He wants it to be his own little pet setting and autistrages about twice a thread. He's like the BType of Disney, don't take it personally.
>>36488921Why do you hate Knightfag so much?Did he murder your family?Was it your parents?Are you now Batman?
>>36488696Could you please point out which specific parts give you the SJW etc. vibes? If you think there's something wrong I don't see why we can't discuss it as civil people.
>>36488885I bet you like 4e magicians. (If you favor 5e, I think you've made my argument for me, shitbag)
>>36488977they aren't interested in civil discussiononly in getting their way, which probably got voted down; i.e, clockwork goblins, etc.
>>36489006You... don't know Nob very well, do you?
>>36489006>liking magicians as anything other than foes and mentors>ever
Guys, ignore the troll. Seriously.
>>36488963>>36488975One post about you warrants two samefagging posts, Knightfag? Seriously?I can't believe anyone would be as lonely and desperate to whiteknight a namefig over a single post.Not any of those guys
This is one of the most obvious trolls I've ever seen and he still got an incredible amount of responses.Come on, guys.
>>36489046Why would you say this, KnightfagI thought we had something special
>>36489058>posts within 50 seconds of each other>samefagginggr8 b8 m8>>36489006Fuck magic in general.>>36489066Good point. Might you write us a song, then? About the darkness of the Shadowlands?Failing that, can we get to work on some Villains or Traits so that we can get the project rolling towards beta again?
>>36488696gr8 b8 m8. I r8 8/8
>>36489058Those posts are 30 seconds apart m8
>>36489098Well, I would like to hear about>>36488674And what other powers a lot of villains/kings might have in common.
>>36489098I'm out of commission for today, working on setting up our winter stuff.I'll be able to write around 8:00 EST, When I get back today.
Guys, ignore the fucking troll. It's not that hard.
>>36489091KEEP UP WITH OUR INTERNET CELEBRITIES SHITLORDSTOP OPRESSING AND TRIGGERING ME
>>36489136Some form of fast flight? For the higher level abilities, perhaps an ability to ignore the first (x) strikes they take in a round to make them even tougher unless weakened in a specific way?
>>36489159>come into a game design thread>shitpost about the guy who made ~65% of the entire system
>>36489098how abt a poem I rite in my own bloodabout the pain and depression in the ShadowLandZ and my mom yelling at mee
>>36489199>the guy who made ~65% of the entire systemIt's like you believe that has some kind of merit.
Time to adjust Elsa. A lot of people have said that it needs doing, and as the one who made the version of her that we currently have on the wiki, I feel like I should bring it up. Also, it'll give us something to talk about other than shitposters. Just ignore them all from now on, otherwise they just derail us.
>>36489206Only if it's 20 doublesided pages long.
>>36489199>guy who made ~65% of the entire systemThat explains a lot.
>>36489206Knock yourself out. Remember it's literally all about deals with the devil, except voodoo flavored.>>36489267Re-post it so we can edit it in-thread. She's gonna need more nuking power and perhaps be harder to convince.
>>36489279>length of knightfag's tenant agreement for his Mom's basement
Queen Elsa the FrozenCountry of Origin: ArrendelleClass: Snow QueenSize: MediumSpecies: HumanRobustness: 8Agility: 10Intelligence: 16Sensibility: 10Charm: 15Strikes = 32Skills:Acrobatics 9Athletic 6Ranged 18 (Only with her own ice magic)Prevent Harm 16Occult 15Endure 8Travel 8 (+5 in Cold/Forest)Persuade 5Intimidate 7Insight 8Academics 8Music 14Craft 15Traits: -Ice Queen's Madness – Elsa is quick to lash out, and rolls to calm her down suffer a +10 to difficulty.-Frozen Heart – Social strikes against Elsa have a +10 to difficulty, but deal triple strikes.-Following – This unit is followed by a massive Ice Golem with 18 Robustness, 10 prevent harm and 12 Brawl. The golem loves Elsa and will protect her by fighting anyone who tries to physically hurt her or makes her angry.-And the North Wind Blows – Elsa is surrounded by constant icy winds that can damage players who roll less than 20 on a ROBUSTNESS-based Prevent Harm roll that they must take every turn that Elsa is angry at them. (This TN is only 16 if they are wearing warm clothing)-Queen – This unit is a Queen, and receives appropriate bonuses.Powers: -Freeze – Renders one specific unit unable to act until a different unit spends five turns helping them up.-Ice Shards – Spends a will point to make two ranged attacks against every member of the party with no penalties.-Ice Shield – Gives a +15 to prevent harm for 2 rounds at a cost of one will point.-Ice Palace –Elsa can create a frozen fortress to hide in, and will do so if she is down to 5 or fewer strikes and it is her turn. The players can try to stop her retreat with a TN 45 Persuade check, but if she flees, she will have full Strikes and be totally recovered before she’s willing to come out again, days or possibly weeks later.-Ice Golems – Can create Snow Golem Mooks at a rate of 2d6 per Will point spent.
>>36489331Shhh, you'll enrage his fanboys/sock puppets.
>>36489305Harder to convincr in-combat that is. Raising it above tn35 and tn45 when mad takes her out of on-a-roll territory for out of combat.
You know, we seem to have a damn good team for homebrewing in these threads. What other systems would you guys like to see done after we've got this one sorted? Shouldn't take that much longer.
>>36489354As written up til now, that means she can just Ice Palace+Snow Golems and even Malificent's dragon breath attack, full bore with no interruption, couldn't kill her.That's kind of stupid.
>>36489354Freeze seems a little... annoying. Considering how fast combat is having minimum two people doing pretty much nothing for five turns is pretty big. Maybe making it five actions?
>>36489435Actions and turns are the same.
So we got one dude thinking this is SJw shit and one dude who REALLY hates Knightfag.I don't know if it's good or bad that the appearance of these people promoted discussion.>>36489419This was Rules Light don't forget, that's why discussion and creation went by pretty smoothly.
>>36489363She's not supposed to be On-A-RollWhy does everyone want Kings to be on-a-roll level? That is literally what Hero level is made for!On-A-Roll is for challenging Villains and MAYBE the most pathetic Kings, like the Slims and shit, but we made a tier just for the Kings, and Elsa is one of the most powerful Queens in the game
>>36489354>prevent harm 16That's a lot, but with only Agility 10 she'll roll +26 on Prevent Harm, which is in the reach of standard On-A-roll players.Her standard attack Ranged attack is +28, which looks okay.Ice Shield needs to be +10, not +15. That's waay too much. How many Will points does she have?>>36489464Nah there are 2 actions a turn.>>36489465Just ignore them, they aren't interested in talking.>>36489421Elsa is one of the most powerful magicians in the universe.
>>36489465The system doesn't seem THAT rules-light. I mean, sure, we don't have hit points, but is that really all you need to be rules light?
>>36489354Athletics and Robustness should be halved, at least. Maybe Int should be closer to 4? She is female, after all
>>36489479Out of combat is very differnet from in-combat fuckhead. Make her hard to kill with swords, not impossible to calm down.
>>36489495It's a little heavier than FATE core, which is considered generally to be a rules-light system. The entire game can be explained in ~15 minutes in person, unlike a lot of games I could note.
>>36489465>I don't know if it's good or bad that the appearance of these people promoted discussion.Good that we started real discussion to spite the wizards, bad that we weren't discussing it already on our own.>>36489464Players get 2 actions per turn, so Freeze would be doing 2 and a half turns.>>36489421Quite. I'd try to come up with an alternative, but I'm not familiar with the film.
>>36489480Wouldn't that mean that you spend the campaign just killing every tier-appropriate enemy in one area before moving on to the next? Seems a little dumb.
>>36489522Fuck OFF sockpuppet wizard.Next response will be 'OMG SOCIAL JUTSICE' and then to that 'SEE U GUYS ARE SJWSZ", all by the samefag wizard.
>>36489545Alright, so mental note: When the thread's slow, shitpost to start it up again.
>>36489480>Elsa is one of the most powerful magicians in the universeIs this new to the fluff, or are you just ignoring every other magic user in Disney because MUH ELSA?
>>36489561Ignore the troll.
>>36489548How do you figure? Generally, players shouldn't be taking on people much more powerful than they can handle without help. So players will defeat a king, move to Hero, and spend most of the game helping people out in countries below their means.>>36489561Just ignore them, once again.>>36489585Says so on the disney wiki.
>>36489585Go ahead and name three wizards canonically stronger.
>>36489419Considering all the additional stuff like Don Bluth, Dreamworks, Under da Sea etc. people have been asking for I don't think we'll be over as soon as you may think.
>>36489522gtfo, assholeI'm not sure how I like freeze, actually. I think we may want to crap it and make a new power to replace it that doesn't make a player sit there doing nothing, which makes the game less fun to play. Keeping the game fun is always top priority.
>>36489585No, it's a genuine thing that happens in the films. Jafar, before his wish with the Genie, can hypnotise people. Ursula, before she got her hands on the Trident, could do alchemy or some shit. Grimhilde could scry and make poison items. Elsa? She could summon castles, freeze entire kingdoms, shoot rays of icy death and create life.>>36489626Ignore the troll.
>>36489626Something that gives a penalty to physical actions?
>>36489585Nuh-uh, wizard! Elsa is the best because ice and castles! Djinn-Jafar might have destroyed cities with a thought, but if Elsa blasts you directly in the heart you'll die in less than a week!
>>36489626Freeze is the only thing keeping Elsa from being low on-a-roll tier in-combat. We need to buff her, not fucking nerf. Jesus. The entire point is that she can be calmed down by someone who's a ridiculously good talker for whatever reason (TN35 and 45) but fighting her gets u fugged unless you're hero-tier.>>36489659I know you're a troll but your retardation and samefaggotry still makes me mad.
King: Kaa Role: Charming GuyClass: Serpent King Country: Subjugate of KaaSize: MediumSpecies: Snake---Attributes---Robustness: 5Agility: 12Intelligence: 15Sensibility: 18Charm: 20Will: 12/12Strikes: 25---Skills---Acrobatics: 12Stealth: 14Persuade: 18Deceive: 12Linguistics: 2Melee: 5PreventHarm:8 Insight: 10Music: 10--Traits—-Trusssssssssst Me (Original)+3 bonus on Deceive and Persuade rolls if the target does not already trust the speaker-Time for Panic.+4 to any roll used to escape a dangerous situation while on one Strike or no Strikes.-KING This unit is a KING. It gets +10 to Persuade and/or Intimidate its servants to do anything if opposed in some way, and can automatically make them obey if nobody is trying to incite rebellion among them.-Father to His Men When on a quarter of his maximum Strike total or less, this King’s subjects may spend one Will point to take a blow for him.-You and What Army? The King is very unlikely to fight alone. Unless separated from them, treat him as being accompanied by a group of: At least one elephant, three vultures, an assortment of both jungle animals and humans, in addition to the hypnotized King Christopher Robin and whatever animals he has currently generated. Treat one of these enemies as a Villain, and the rest ranging from Lackeys to Mooks. If encountered outside of his territory, replace all of the above (not counting Christopher Robin) with local equivalents.
>>36489612Horned One from Fantasia, Rasputin(full strength bc he wins in this universe) from Swan Princess, Malificent.That wasn't difficult. I can go on
>>36489707---Powers----Ssssssomniferousssss: At the beginning of a round where you are not under attack, spend a Will Point to activate a hypnotic gaze. Characters that do not avoid making eye contact by succeeding in an Endure check each round become entranced and cannot act until aided by another character. Kaa may then give a command that does not threaten the life of the character (as per the Gift of Kaa Power). Kaa may affect multiple targets in one round with Somniferous and can maintain it indefinitely until he is injured.-Both Eyes, if You Please : Spend a Will Point to perform a three-minute song upon a character that has already been affected by Somniferous. If not interrupted, the character is permanently considered to be one of Kaa’s subjects until his death. Never Leave This Jungle: Rebellion cannot be incited in Kaa’s subjects except through magical means, and he may apply half of his King bonus to any character who has been affected by Somniferous and is not one of his subjects.
>>36489687Ignore the troll.
>>36489708>a literal god>a non-disney movie>a dragon, classified canonically as not even magicWow, you're a faggot.
>>36489708Rasputin and Maleficent are below Elsa in power. Rasputin isn't in this universe. Horned one is generally a weak magician other than teleportation.
Hey, I've seen these threads a lot over the last month so I decided to finally stop in and give the thing a closer look. Pretty neat idea, keep up the good work.So with all of the canonical Disney protagonists being dead (I assume? Please correct me if I'm wrong) and the world being entirely run by the victorious villains, there's a really unique, oppressive atmosphere that this setting has going for it that's got me interested. I see at the moment that work is being done to stat out the main bad guys, and the OP makes mention of the Heroes and their allies, so I am a bit curious as to what the PCs goals in a campaign run with this system is actually supposed to be. Is the idea that the PCs are just freedom fighters of some sort, roving the lands and freeing the kingdoms from the warring villains, or is there more of a metaplot in place to this that I could gleam from a particular one of the pastebins or google docs? I'd really love to help out this project, but I'd just like to know where to start getting up to speed with the direction of things.
>>36489708>including anything from the shitty Princess Swan movies when they aren't Disney, and when even if we had to outsource because we needed a sorcerer in Russia, Rasputin from Anastasia would be a much, much better guy fro the job.You shame your family.
>>36489708>malificent>more powerful than elsaWe've been over this, faggot.
>>36489626*scrap it, not crap it>>36489687I'm not saying nerf her, but we should scrap one specific power because it makes one person have to sit out for a good long while the others fight, and that would make the game really boring for that person. We want to make Elsa strong, but not make her no fun to play against.
>>36489758Well, as far as I'm aware, beyond Rourke's war with Ursula, the clusterfuck that is Japan, the Spiritual Rebellion and Eldorado vs the US, there doesn't seem to be much of a metaplot at the moment.
>>36489585We actually discussed this last thread.Elsa has a shit ton of Raw Power, but little technique, and is easy to predict because she's just doing what follows her emotions.Jafar is also pretty powerful, either a bit stronger or a bit weaker then Elsa, not sure, but has way more technique and is a bit more unpredictable. He also may or may not have one wish left for the Genie.Ursula has I think the most Raw Power, but has the worst technique and is pretty straightforward. She does technically have the most land though.Facilier has little Raw Power, but is arguably the best in Technique, and second-best in Unpredictability, since all his power comes from his Friends.Malicifent has high Raw Power, high Technique, and is the most Unpredictable, because she's a Fae.The Horned King is the second Weakest, above Facilier but below every other sorcerer, has a fair amount of Technique, and is also pretty straightforward, lacking in unpredictablity. However, he has a shit-ton of magical items and the Cauldron for a shit ton of Mooks and maybe an extra life to balance it out.
>>36489758Who's dead and who's not is largely a campaign by campaign thing. If it's a case where the villain's explicit goal to kill the hero, such as Shere Khan and Mowgli, then that hero will obviously be dead. Otherwise, the GM will pick options from the rumor mill or come up with his own stuff.
>>36489804Jafar had the most Raw Power, I thought, because he is explicitly made THE STRONGEST SORCERER... IN THE WORLD!
>>36489612Jafar used his wish to become the most powerful magic user in the world, so he's stronger by default. Ursula with the trident is pretty much all-powerful in the sea. Maleficent is strong but technically she's a fae. Some anon in the previous thread had the idea to classify wizards based on raw power, technique and variety; so Elsa had a lot of raw power but near-zero technique and variety, while Maleficient had the most imprevedibility and Ursula finer control.
>>36489744Malificent is a non-magical dragon in this setting you're aborting?The Dark Fairy that froze time and created an impenetrable thorn forest at will? And manipulated the fates themselves to allow a magically and physically protected princess to prick her finger on a spinning wheel, giving the king of a fantasy land 16 years advance warning and an exact date of said assassination?A non-magical dragon?Dropped so hard
>>36489771And it's still fucking retarded, as the villain that consistently gets depicted as the big bad whenever disney villains get together Maleficent should hands down be one of the biggest threats in the game period
>>36489804>>36489832Calm your autism, Ponderous. We've already discerned that Jafar is more powerful but it's almost entirely due to an outside (divine) source, Ursula has almost no power but the Trident gives godlike abilities, while Elsa has raw power just a scrap lower than Jafar's since she would be the most powerful otherwise, but it's naturally-occurring.>>36489853Carefully read that post again, then come back and explain to everyone why you are retarded.
>>36489853What we mean is that Maleficient is technically a fae, she doesn't count as a wizard because her magic is all-natural.
>>36489833No, anon, Jafar isn't allowed to overshadow Elsa. That's the rules here. Therefore, he decided not to wish for genie-dom or ultimate power, but something else instead maybe
>>36489858Chernobog is the big bad. Maleficent is depicted as a 'big bad' because she's just an evil, conniving asshole, not due to powerlevel.
>>36489758>So with all of the canonical Disney protagonists being dead (I assume? Please correct me if I'm wrong)You know, I'm still not exactly clear how that works Like, I assume that certain heroes HAVE to be dead in order for the "Villains VICTORIOUS" thing to work (Gaston kills the Beast, Hades kills Hercules, etc.) but I don't think we ever established definitively what became of a lot of the protags.I guess you'd have like, Tiana and Naveen still being frogs out in the swamps or Pinocchio still chilling in the belly of that whale, but it's really hard to say what would have become of most of the main heroes in these scenarios.
>>36489923You're an idiot. Stop giving the trolls ammunition.
>>36489889The caps were just quoting his wishhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR2Qqh-yHEU
>>36489922What is your purpose? What possible purpose could attempting to derail a project through shitty falseflagging and attempts to turn this into /co/shit possible achieve? What facet of your pathetic life is fulfilled by wasting time on an anime imageboard trying to distract people form an interesting project?
>>36490000Ignore the troll.
>>36489946But the Beast was an evil, kidnapping monster before Belle redeemed him. Surely he's still ruling and terrorizing not-Germany from his estately home filled with living slave-furniture?
>>36490035Gaston shot him.
>>36490000Not my fault /co/ kicked you buttmad Elsafags out. Your sperg-rage is misdirected, friend.
>>36489804I think it goes like thisPOWER/RAW POWERUrsula > Malicifent > Elsa > Jafar > Horned King > FacilierTECHNIQUEFacilier > Malicifent > Horned King > Jafar > Elsa > UrsulaUNPREDICTABILITYMalicifent > Facilier > Jafar > Horned King > Elsa = Ursula
>>36489922Well, depending on how/when Aladdin died he might not have made the wish for ultimate sorcery. If Al died in the Cave of Wonders with His Eternal Reward then there is a good chance Jafar wouldn't have to make the wish for ultimate magical power and could use it for something else.
>>36490083Maleficent is too high on raw power. Switch her and Elsa, and Technique she needs to be swapped with HK.
>>36490048What, like he was incapable of actually pulling off in the film?Beast is a far more interesting villain than Gaston, and it actually makes sense to Disnery canon instead of averting it in a weird, wish-fulfillment kind of way.
>>36490083That's the most ludicriously wrong list I've ever fucking seen.Trident>Jafar>Elsa>>Malicifent>>>>>>>>>>>>Horned King>>>>>>>>>>FacilierFacilier>>>>>Jafar>Maleficent>Horned King>Ursula>ElsaFacilier>>Maleficent>Horned King>Jafar>>>>>>>>Elsa/Ursula
>>36490101So, by twisting it around to fit Elsa being more powerful, Elsa is more powerful?I think I understand these threads better now
>mfw this one fucking /co/fag trying to make it look like we're making elsa powerful because we're /frz/iggers like him
>>36490130Hey my list wasn't that far off, that one is better though, I agrre with that.But wouldn't Maleficent still be above Facilier in Unpredictably? Because while he is pretty unpredictable for a human, she is a Fae, a race known for doing weird-ass shit.
>>36490130tryGenie Jafar>Trident Ursula>Malificent>Elsa>Horned King>FacilierFor power.
>>36490254Maleficent is less powerful than Elsa, still.
>>36490254Why won't you fuck off, wizard?
>>36490163I don't give two shits if Elsa is more powerful or not but if the GM decides from the rumor mill that Aladdin died in the cave of wonders and Jafar never wished for supreme magical power than Jafar is weaker. I personally prefer Jafar to be the baddest fucker around since he has more personality than most Disney villains and his song was a reprise of Prince Ali. Not everything is a conspiracy. Jafar can go either way, ded Aladdin in the cave of wonders or crazy Aladdin in Arendelle because of rocket launch and I believe most prefer the latter as it's a better plot hook.
>>36490254>the fucking tident less powerful than jafar, even with genieshit>elsa less powerful than malificentThe entire last thread was dedicated to sorting out this shit, and you retards STILL push for it.
>>36490244not that guy, but you're doing that pretty well on your own
>>36490300>Not that guy, but that one troll who's been samefagging the entire thread to push an agenda is totally right guys, you all are totally just /co/shipping faggotsOk, buddy.
>>36490254Jafar isn't a genie you stupid twat
>>36490299Malificent can do literally anything Elsa can do and more. Autists hugboxing over "well Malificent is just a non magical drasgon!!" in the last thread is meaningless.
>>36490336No, he just wishes to be one with no master but himself.Then conjures volcanoes, earthquakes and palace-destroying lightning bolts at a whim.It was an entire Disney movie, dude.
>>36489707What is his game plan in combat? His Melee is only +17, and his Prevent Harm is only +20. He's really weak in this.
>>36490363>pls respond ;-;
>>36490382Social Strikes, look at his Charm, Persuasion, and Deceit.
>>36490382STOP MATH RAPING ME SHITLORDSTATS ARE A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT
>>36490341Can Maleficent create sentient life by accident?
>>36490341Elsa has a more specific purview, and in the theoretical situation where she remains the lone Ice Queen letting her powers go out of control then yeah, she's more powerful than Maleficent IN THAT VERY SPECIFIC REGARD. She can throw a more powerful ice spell, she can do things with her specific type of magic that Maleficent can't do... with her specific type of magic.Maleficent is the Wizard to Elsa's Sorcerer. She has a wide variety of powers, including a multitude of curses and utility spells that can do whatever the fuck she wants. When she wants to get into raw power, she goes Dragon Form. Now, Dragon Form is very powerful, and has a lot of very neat side-effects like growing tougher, being able to fly, and having bitchin' breath attacks, and I do agree that Maleficent could beat Elsa in a straight up fight - Mostly because Dragon Breath is a natural counter to Really Cold Shit, and Elsa isn't THAT much more powerful than Maleficent. It'd be a suitably epic fight, though.TL:DR - Elsa has better burst damage and a more powerful single trick that she's used to all sorts of different effects, but Maleficent can do a large variety of different powers and spells and especially curses that are nearly un-breakable... But have to have a loophole out of. In a straight-up spellfight Elsa would win, but in a true Wizard's Duel Maleficent would win because she can bring up counters to Elsa's power, has more abilities to bring to bear, and can be a sneaky little shit.
>>36490299>>36490341Didn't we reach an agreement last thread that Maleficent is overall more powerful than Elsa because, while having a little less Raw Power, her Technique and Versatility are astronomically higher?
>>36490294Fuck off, wizard. Aladdin died in the Cave, end of story, only Stormfag pissbabies have as problem with that, Elsa isTHE most powerful, end of discussion.Next topic?
>>36490494We were talking about Raw Power, not overall power.
>>36490505We're talking about Kings now.>>36490448THAT'S A SHITMYN OF SHITCOLOR, STOP RAPING ME YOU FUCKING TURDBURD.>>36490432Duly noted. Shouldn't his Prevent Harm be a bit higher, though?
>>36490505Man, this thread is mad.
>>36490494settled last thread that, to properly balance Villains Victorious, Malificent is a non-magical dragon. still pretty tough though, because dragon
>>36490476This guy is correct.>>36490505>>36490545You've got to be fucking kidding me. You really wrote up an entire SJW-like post just so you could respond to it and claim the thread is full of them? How fucking pathetic are you?
>>36490505Queen La's K/L/R. It's literally the only one left. After we do that we can finally finish the King stats.
>>36490505So I'm a wizard for wanting the actual sorcerer who canonically wished to be the best sorcerer in the world to actually be the best, you know the guy with actual training who isn't a whiny piss baby. Also explain to me how the fuck I'm a stormfag when I want the Arabian guy to be more powerful than the white chick?
>>36490551No, we didn't. She's the fucking Queen of Fae.
>>36490551Non-magic meaning, can't use magic while transformed, right?
>>36490560IGNORETHEMThey're looking to start a fight.>>36490601>>36490606She's magical in person, yes, but not as a dragon. She's also not as strong as the strongest magicians in the world but has the most magic-wielding evil minions.
>>36490580>Elsa>whiny piss babyaaaaand we have misogyny, thanks for showing your true colors, not surprised you couldn't handle Elsa being the best, wizardlord
Hello, I am posting here really quick because this shit is spiraling out of control because you are all retarded and can't figure out that literally one guy is trolling you. Stop responding to him. >>36490476and>>36490130Are what we've established as canon. Stop talking to it, ignore anyone else bringing up something retarded like 'non-magical dragons' ' you are all sjws' 'i am a sjw look at me' 'you all want elsa to be about as powerful as she canonically is because you are from /frz/' or anything similar. Make Queen La's KLR, finish the billions kings we need, buff Elsa slightly if needed while ignoring this faggot.I'll be here in roughly 3 hours to deliver that song.
>>36490580Don't le him get to you man, he's just false-flagging to make us look like a "MUH WAIFU IS THE STRONKEST" circlejerk.
>>36490580Most powerful sorcerer does not necessarily imply most powerful being. Which of the two is stronger isn't the problem though (since ultimately that's decided by "which is the most interesting/popular choice"), the issue is that you're being so pissy about it.
So, what bandits should we use as villains for the Wild West?
>>36490629>Be fairy>Change into kickass fire breathing dragon>Mfw not allowed to cast spells in dragon form so I can't change back
>>36490382>>36490541Social Strikes are his main thing, yeah, might give him some boa constrictor-esque crushing power to up his melee game though. He leaves fighting to his minions (I think Father to His Men makes up for the low Prevent Harm, but I might increase it to 12 at some point) and probably spends most of the fight trying to get a party member on their own so he can hypnotize them.I ended up statting Christopher Robin too, if anyone's interested. He's meant to be fought as a dual boss with Kaa so his powerset consists of spawning mooks, buffing/healing Kaa, and basically being as annoying as humanly possible.
>>36490687OVIOUSLY she can still cast "Change Back" spell, because reasonsNot other spells tho
>>36490687Where did we say that? Perhaps she has to wait for the transformation to expire, or she can force her way back into Fae form., but she can't cast magic when transformed.>>36490686Butch Cassidy? Babyface?>>36490689Please post Christopher Robin.
This is bullshit. We don't have to rank these people in terms of power, just get vague ideas of how strong everyone should be.Back to the original topic, I'm gonna make a new statline for Elsa and post it in a few.
>>36490686Legendary cowboys like Billy the Kid and shit?
>>36490686Probably just the most iconic ones and the ones featured in Tall Tales. Billy the Kid, Jesse James, Pecos Bill, the stuff. Maybe we could also add a particularly powerful beast he yodelled into a loyal pet.
>>36490732You want a table game ruleset without power rankings in various metrics?Uuuuuuuuh
>>36490758Slim's lieutenants would work as well.
>>36490732Dude, we did it for other enemies and for heroes. Why does doing it for the Kings twist your testicles?
>>36490770>what is rules lightWe're not making a simulationist game.
>>36490758>powerful beast he yodeled into a loyal petI hate to suggest this but....Blue?
>>36490770Yes, its easy. Whoever at the table has the least Social Privilege is GM, and everyone else agrees with zir decisions for their characters instead of the usual patriarchal, oppressive math of more misogynistic games
>>36490775Villains as in "the enemy class immediately under Kings, the lieutenants/most powerful servants of each King". Slim is basically the king of the wild west, so it's logical he should have some western icons as underlings.
>>36490792Yes, but we have Mooks, Inner Circles and Villains, don't we?
>>36490817Yes, and we have a category for Kings. We don't have in-grouping rankings for each of them because then we get into tier-list heavy math bullshit.
>>36490730I'm just going by the Disney animated movie Sleeping Beauty here, but didn't Malificent explicitly cast magic while in dragon form?
>>36490865I don't think so? She breathed fire but I can't remember magic being used after she turned into a dragon.
>>36490865Not that I remember.
>>36490865Exhaling green and black hellflame isn't magical, duh
>>36490816No not thatNevermind, forget it.
>>36490893I think that falls under 'dragon', mate.
>>36490893A dragon without a breath attack would be a little like a stingerless scorpion, don't you think?
>>36490830Yes, but otherwise we only have vague options of what we're going for and nobody knows what's going on. Having tables everywhere in-game just makes it less fun, but in development, it lets you know exactly how strong your villains are supposed to be and have it down in writing how to calculate it for creating new enemies. Complicated development is good because it can help to balance a game, complicated gameplay is bad because nobody wants to roll on 6 tables in one turn.
>>36490935Are you suggesting some kind of natural process inside the dragon that produces stone-melting heat and dark fire?Maybe Mal's trump card is turning slave humans into dragons, then vivisecting them for their internal fire organs to create a military industrial complex and industrial age
>>36490977Each king is statted differently based on their movie traits. Villains and below have tables of what they're supposed to be statted for. We've had this discussion before.>>36491013Yes, that is traditionally an attribute of dragons.Also, I think she can only turn herself into a dragon, and she doesn't really have a long-term enough plan or enough micromanagement over her minions to stage something like that.
>>36491013They haven't thought ANY of this through., that's why it sucks.
>>36491053Oh cool, the troll decided to show his namefagging nature.Filtered.
>>36491050>Yes, that is traditionally an attribute of dragonsThree different pre-Tolkien examples in folklore of fire breathing dragons, pleaseOr a single one with green black flames
>>36491013I actually kinda like that idea.The problem being though would be, I think, only she can turn herself into a dragon. It's more like a self polymorph, kinda like Madam Mim.
>>36491107let it go. they'll make any contortions of logic necessary for Elsa to be stronger. It's the whole point of this setting.
>>36491143Elsa is hardly a character in this setting. She sits in her castle and doesn't leave, and is adjacent to one of the few people more powerful than she is.
>>36491143But that wasn't related to Elsa at all though
The only thing that I'm worried about is that someone new to the thread might be drawn away by this retarded nigger screaming about /frz/, and his samefaggotry making anyone potentially think that it actually exists in the system.
>>36491155Nob, you bitch, stop feeding the goddamn trolls.
>>36491124>It's more like a self polymorphIf this is something Knightfag wants to write into his setting to arbitrarily make Elsa viable in combat against her, then fine. Just stop pretending that it's based on anything other than rabid Frozen fandom.
>>36490730I wasn't lying when I said he was annoying.King: Christopher Robin Milne Role: Sensible Guy Class: Enthralled King Country: Hundred-Acre Wood/Subjugate of KaaSize: SmallSpecies: Human---Attributes---Robustness: 2Agility: 10Intelligence: 10Sensibility: 15Charm: 10Will: 20/20Strikes: 15---Skills---Prevent Harm: 12Linguistics: 2Travel: 6 Stealth: 10 Academics:8 Insight: 12Music: 14--Traits—-All Will Be Well+3 when trying to calm down or convince a frightened character-Golden Hearted Saint+3 to any checks made to directly help the poor, the misfortunate and/or the downtrodden.-Let The Music Play+2 to Prevent Harm checks when the unit is singing and not attacking-KING This unit is a KING. It gets +10 to Persuade and/or Intimidate its servants to do anything if opposed in some way, and can automatically make them obey if nobody is trying to incite rebellion among them.-EnthralledThis unit is under the mental influence of another entity and is considered one of their subjects; it is immune to non-magical mental effects that would alter its allegiance, and receives a +3 bonus on any checks that would give it the means to fulfil one of its master’s commands. -Dream LordThis unit is the KING of a Dream Realm. Under the correct circumstances, it may enter its Realm.
>>36491184Knightfaggot, you autist, stop samefagging up the thread
Just....Why are people thinking Maleficent is just a dragon, again? >>36491205Hm, okay, look mate. We never really made Elsa all that powerful. She HAS a fuckload of power but she's gonna get stomped by more than half of the current sorcerers in the setting. Ursula, Jafar, Maleficent and Hades are straight up more or equaly powerful. Facilier can dance circles around her for a while.Just...Why do you hate the project so much, again?
>>36491220---Powers----Now We Are SixGenerates 1d6 Mooks of randomly chosen animal types. These animals are instantly considered subjects to both Christopher Robin and Kaa.-Braver Than You Believe, Stronger Than You ThinkSpend one Will Point to provide a morale bonus to one’s allies. For each round this power is used, Kaa’s allies receive +1 on all attack checks, while Kaa and Christopher Robin’s generated allies receive a +2 bonus and recover one Strike per round. This skill remains in constant use without draining additional Will Points until Christopher Robin is injured.-Forever, and Ever, Is A Very Long TimeSpend one Will Point to begin a five-minute song that bolsters one’s allies, in this case, Kaa. Units attempting to resist the effects of Kaa’s Somniferous power suffer a -2 on their Endure checks. If Christopher Robin performs a duet with another animal, this song’s effects may be stacked onto that unit’s performance.The following Power may be removed at the GM's discretion:-We’ll Always be TogetherIf Kaa is killed and Christopher Robin is still conscious: Spend three Will Points to generate a copy of Kaa from the power of Christopher Robin’s imagination. This copy is in every way identical to the original and is considered to be the same for all intents and purposes – it remains manifested even if Christopher Robin is then knocked out, but fades if he is killed. May be used each time Kaa is killed and he remains conscious.
>>36491205WhatI never even mentioned Knightfag the fuck are you talking aboutAlso I think a bunch of European Dragons in myth were fire-breathers. I could be remembering wrong though.
>>36491224pssssssssssst>you're a faggot
>>36491205Seriously, what's your problem? Did a namefag rape your dog or something?
>>36491257>>36491275Don't feed the troll.
>>36491244>Maleficent is more powerfulfor the tenth fucking time>>36490130>>36490130
>>36491244>We never really made Elsa all that powerful. She HAS a fuckload of power but she's gonna get stomped by more than half of the current sorcerers in the setting. Ursula, Jafar, Maleficent and Hades are straight up more or equaly powerful. Facilier can dance circles around her for a whileMaybe you should read the thread and all the long-winded arguments against exactly this reasonable position that the egoic little 'architects' of this 'setting' have been making.
>>36491220>>36491248I like this, I like this a lot.That last power is scary, but overall this is really interesting. Based anon
>>36491244Not to mention that the Firebird, Aurora Borealis or Cherrybomb would rape her to pieces in seconds.
>>36491248>>36491220I give it Holy Fuck Why/10It's bretty gud.
>>36491321I have. Like, I don't see it. I've seen people saw that Elsa is tremendously powerful, and SHE IS. She did create an entire castle in minutes, and her whole kingdom IS frozen because of her. Thing is, the other guys are even more powerful, but that doesn't necessarily makes her weak yanno? I don't see what's the problem.>>36491313Well, actually Maleficent was the one I would say is equally powerful, but I'm not gonna start a shitstorm about it.Faeries are cray cray yo, and she IS the most powerful fairy around without any sort of miraculous boosts and what have you. Who knows, maybe I'm just taking the whole "AALL THE POWERS OF HEEEEEEELL" thing too literallyCan we just, y'know, calm down for a bit?
>>36491107The first example of a European fire-breathing dragon is generally accepted to be the dragon fought by Beowulf. Pic is from 1908. Tolkien was actually a scholar who studied Beowulf, and considered Beowulf's dragon, along with Fafnir from Norwegian legend, to be one of 2 real dragons from European folklore.
>>36491347>>36491323Glad you guys liked it! This wasn't even a statblock to start with; I was trying some writefaggotry on Kaa/Louie/Bagheera and gave up halfway through. Featured such amazing plot twists as the three of them plotting to keep the Hunter's Club from killing Shere Khan because they fear the resulting power vacuum would lead to a human invasion, Bagheera getting gradually more irritated every time someone mentions Baloo, and Kaa using Christopher Robin to carry him around and talking through him like some creepy puppet when he realises how much this pisses Louie off.Also the one elephant mentioned in Kaa's stats is meant to be Haithi Jr., because why not.
>>36491107The Biblical Leviathan is also described as breathing fire.
thread is now archived:http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?searchall=Disney+Villains+Victorious
>>36491565You know what else is good about this extra power of Robin's is? It explains why Shere Khan didn't off Kaa. because he did but it didn't take
Alright, so I'm gonna try to stat up Maleficent and post her on the next thread, but before I do thatDo we have any racial guidelines for the fae, or can I go with what I think fits?
>>36491818whatever works. we'll nitpick it later, just get the rough draft down.
>>36491818Follow your heart, little anon.
>>36491818Go with what fits. Presumably, there'll be two stat blocks, anyway.
>>36491845>>36491843>>36491836Very well. Just one question before I go at it, then. Sensible, Smart, or Charismatic? I wanna go with sensible for some reason, but I'm not sure if it's the best fit
>>36491818Quick guideline:1. Dragon flames can't melt magically created ice.2. Malificent can't cast spells in dragon form.3. All characters must only be able to defeat Elsa by Social Strikes. No mechanics that give characters more fighting potential than Elsa are allowed.Go for it!
>>36491914Do us a favor and at least try to act like the person you're trying to impersonateJust because we don't use trips here doesn't mean we are stupid
>>36491914You typed your name wrong Erowid.
>>364919143 seems bad. You just condemned the physical characters to awkwardly trying to intimidate Elsa.
>>36491957are you actually retarded
>>36491957It's Erowid in disguise. Don't listen to him.>>36491944>>36491955Don't feed the troll.
>>36491863Smart, I think. She's a talented schemer and plotter.Remember that Maleficent should transform into dragon form with one of her abilities, perhaps temporarily making her a Robustness character?
>>36492007No worries, I got an idea for it.
>>36491957It's hilarious that you're seriously considering that post.
>>36492007I just realized that since Maleficent AND Madam Mim can transform into dragons, we should probably make it into two different powers. One called Greater Dragon Transformation for Maleficent and one called Lesser Dragon Transformation for Madam Mim.
>>36491914Actually, while I know this is Erowid in disguise, I think magical ice being unmeltable makes sense. Like, magical fire presumably is hotter than regular fire, so why shouldn't magical ice be permafrost?
>>36492124Perhaps it takes much longer to melt with normal fire than usual? Atlantean laser weapons and Holy Fire aside, of course.
>>36492124Olaf was magical ice, and he could be melted by plain old sunlight.
>>36492124Maybe we should consider implementing something like this for normal fire so murderhobos can't kill everyone by taking a flamethrower to that bigass staircase of the ice palace.
>>36491914>impersonating Knightfag>not mentioning knights, Prydain, or How Things Oughta Be onceMan, at least try.
>>36492144Good point. Still, like >>36492166 said, we need to make it so Elsa can't be beaten with a box of matches.
>>36492166that should probably be left up to individual gms honestly>>36492173i don't know why this guy has such a raging hate-on for knightfag. sure, hes pretty autistic sometimes but this looks even more autistic.
>>36492195He doesn't, he's just a troll.
>>36492214Well, you know what they say: you're not a legit homebrew until you have haters.
>>36492173The copypasta guy from last thread was closer.>>36492166My inner murderhobo has a plan for dousing Elsa's whole palace in gasoline from an airship and just burning the fucker down.
>>36492299Yeah. That would have consequences, though; a massive collapsing ice castle is going to be causing a big goddamn avalanche.
>>36492289Well, good job us.
New thread is up: >>36492514