Welcome to the XXXV installment of "Disney Villains Victorious."Disney Villains Victorious is a new /tg/ homebrew project based on the idea of a world, not entirely unlike our own, in which all the villains from all the Disney animated feature films were not defeated at the ends of their movies but were instead victorious, completing their goals in part or in whole.It is a world in which Ursula rules the seas, defied only by the uncatchable Pirate Lords, the cutthroat merchants of the East India Trading Company and the might of Atlantis and its magitech-toting mercenaries. It is a world where the grasslands and jungles and forests are prowled not only by fearsome primal beasts like Shere Kahn and Scar but also by the ruthless, tireless hunters that stalk them. It is a world where Europe has been divvied up between evil sorcerous monarchs like Maleficent, the Horned King, Grimhilde and Jafar, mad, inquisitorial clergymen like Frollo, and Dark Gods like Hades and Chernobog.It is not, however, a world completely devoid of courage, heroism or hope. Around the world, the PCs' characters and their allies plot and plan, fight and strive and win their own victories against the villains that would rule them. The time to fight and to be free is now.http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?searchall=Disney+Villains+Victorioushttp://1d4chan.org/wiki/Disney_Villains_Victorious
>>36289822Assembled Pastebins:King/Land/Rule: http://pastebin.com/Z8wFJrhhSetting Traits: http://pastebin.com/8RRbwMQTBeast Species: http://pastebin.com/PwVr9VeTTRAITS: http://pastebin.com/uHCXg4EVPOWERS:http://pastebin.com/pQDDqisUFluff Catalogue: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qj_IIuF_rqh_F2L-SeYn-dBiwDTtwWFpnbcXyfcgeE8/editSong Catalogue: (google doc) 1oQniqbLaTCF7V19fnXP0_zUW7GFr3ESziGM6U5mEcC0/editRumour Mill: (google doc) 17CzFrAblibwD__7sEYorqXSz4ILYVp1O4tcQ-mGyYiI/edit?usp=sharingVillain Immortality: http://pastebin.com/kA1wsUzVFirst Playtest: http://pastebin.com/Vy1E0sHBSecond playtest:http://pastebin.com/qE1kW0YY
REMINDER THAT >SVERD COURTING ELSA AND THEM MAKING LOVING CONSENSUAL VANILLA SEX TO LOSE BOTH THEIR VIRGINITIESAND THEN THE SECOND TIME IS WHEN THE PADDLES AND ICE RESTRAINTS GET BROKEN OUTIS CANON
Heading home.....so, SverdxElsa bondage song when?
Christening the new thread with a songSing to the tune of “Back to Before” – Ragtime, 1998 versionSLIMThere was a timeWhen my life seemed neverendingI was so sureThat my being was foreverLife on the roadWith never a crossroad in sightBack in the daysWhen we spoke in confident voicesCrystals of lightAnd sturdy young men at the oar.But for these daysI’ve got to look at all my choicesCause I can never go back to beforeThere was a timeMy feet so solidly plantedI’ll still sail awayWhile you turn your back to the seaI will be contentOnly when I find myself enchantedIf I had dreamsThen I’d rather dream of what there is to comeIf just for one dayI could see my choices clearly and outlinedSpirits too brightAnd who knows what the future has in store?Where will I beWhen I turn back from the mirror?Those others think we can’t go back to the beforeI might have a feelingOr that I just know that they’re wrongUnafraid to feel sorrow,Unafraid of tomorrow,Unafraid to be weak,Because I’m only strong….There was a timeWhen I was the person in motionI’ll make a wifeIt occurs to want some moreI’ll have the skyAnd the moons and stars and oceansWhen I go back to beforeCause I can go back to before!
>>36289872Aww, poor Mary.
>>36289884An attractive male PC that anons really like the idea of him getting fucked by Elsa. His character sheet is probably in the thread>>36289872If by Sverd courting Elsa you mean Elsa courting Sverd with the help of Ice Anna and literally everyone fucking ever then yes, it's canon
Character creation doc needs to go with the assembled pastebins; Character creation 'doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m8XSm73Ea4ECdDdP9V4IVJCEBji6HPw43LRPyUCDmx4/edit?usp=sharing
>>36289900there's enough submissive platinum blonde scandinavian to go around
The ability of new threads to not only end arguments but end all discussion period is shocking
>>36289924A self insert, with Elsa as a waifu then. I'll show myself out, you guys have fun with your frozen general.
What we need to reach an agreement from last thread:Science is the main healing skill. Should we allow Perception to be used as well? And if so, at what penalty?Proposals include:>It can only heal a single strike>It gets a penalty>It gets a penalty that gets progressively worse.Another suggestion: would it be acceptable to have a power or a trait that allows the use of a different skill for healing strkes?>This is the perfect opportunity to test my Flesh-Fixer 9000!
>>36290010>PerceptionPersuasion. I meant to say Persuasion.
>>36290006No, it's just a bunch of faggot anons shipping him. The actual creator hasn't done anything with them at all.
>>36290010It would be completely acceptable to have a Power that uses a non-science way to heal strikes. If you want to use a Trait, it should come with a heavy disadvantage -- perhaps a trait like Quack Doctor that lets you use Deceit at -4 to cure strikes?
>>36290010Let's make it a power, I guess.
>>36290048I like this.
>>36290048Alright, but what about Persuasion?You said last thread that Persuasion mostly deals with emotions, whereas Science is about hard facts and psychology. And since Strikes are mostly just how much our heroes are keeping it together, it stands to reason that Persuasion should be able to help with that, even if it's just mental duct tape keeping the whole thing together.
>>36290239Yeah, Persuasion should also be able to do that.
>>36290239A trait that allows them to use Persuasion to temporarily (10 minutes?) remove a strike, before they realize you have no idea what you're talking about seems fine. No substitute for a doctor, but enough for them to fight on.
>>36290048>>36290085>>36290339I don't like how everything is getting solved by making it a trait: it's like we are making D&D 3£ and every problem is solved by making it a feat.
>>36290339Let me get this straight: you fall down a cliff, land on something soft, take a strike, then your party scientist tells you to walk if off and you're fine, but if the charming guy tells you the same thing, you don't believe him?>>36290365Why yeah, it does seem like that!
>>36290365We aren't solving every problem we're making with a trait: we're making traits that give more options to characters that makes sense.Also, aren't most of D&D's feats pretty much useless?>>36290339Maybe we could call it Keep It Together, Man?
>>36290435>Also, aren't most of D&D's feats pretty much useless?That's what I feared would happen here, but if you say we're okay it's fine.
>>36290398Ehh.. You do make a good point.I say we go with the increasing penalty idea: you can believe the charming swashbuckler that everything is going to be okay the first time, but with every new near-death experience the thought that he has no idea what he's talking about gets harder and harder to suppress...
>>36290487This way it sounds a little bit too complex: we would need to keep track of it.
>>36290487I like the alternative where the charming swashbuckler just tells you it'll be fine and you believe him for a little bit before realizing that his logic was totally wrong Also, repost from last thread, I posted at the very end.I suggest we implement a new rule: Dual-skill rolls. To perform certain tasks, you must complete two checks. For example, to make a potion, I would make a Science check with Intelligence to know what to put in the potion, and a Craft check with Agility to have the steady hands to mix it all together. For another example from this thread, to convince someone they have a disease, I'd make a Deceive check and a Science check. This lets us categorize checks much better.What do you guys think?
>>36290505All you need to keep track of is how many times you've been healed by the party face. The party face gets, let's say a -2 penalty for each time he's healed you in the past session. It doesn't seem that complex to me.
>>36290536It's fine for long tasks, like making potions, but you can't make people roll two times for something that should go down wuickly, like telling a lie. If you want to convince someone they are sriously sick you should just roll Science.
>>36290534>>36290554And yet keeping track of how you got each Strike and healing them in different ways, with no penalties or anything else, is too complex?
>manchildrens putting this much effort into a setting about childrens cartoonsHoly fuck /tg/ what the fuck are you doing.
>>36290536But if we do it that way, while it does make sense, it makes it pretty much useless: why would anyone want to get temporary strikes that will disappear in a while?
>>36290583>And yet keeping track of how you got each Strike and healing them in different ways, with no penalties or anything else, is too complex?The fuck are you on, it's not complex at all. Wait. Fuck.
>>36290590It's an interesting setting, and if you're gonna do something you should do it all the way.
>>36290590plz no bully
>>36290583Yes. Losing a strike in a battle does not necessarily mean that you are wounded. And if you are, it is not such a serious wound as to require a trip to the hospital.If you need a trip to the hospital, you have been Defeated, which means you ran out of strikes.
>>36290591As a Charming Guy, I could take the tank's mind off his pain for long enough to deal with the BBEG. Think of this as being like Temporary Hit Points, a way to keep people from going down in battle, at least for a bit..
>>36290365Sure, they're like feats. Except the average person gets enough Lessons per session to get a trait per session. Te average player, if they want, could load themselves down with dozens of traits. Additionally, players start with three, not one.
>>36290656So can't we just use Persuasion to heal them?
>>36290622Why not apply that logic to a career or something, namefag manchild...? Instead of make believe childrens cartoons setting.>>36290647No.
>>36290681It is what we're trying to decide here, anon.
>>36290681Read my suggestion please.
>>36290681Not normaly, you'd need a trait to be persuasive enough to convince someone you have the medical knowledge to diagnose that they're fine.Also, wouldn't that be Deceit, not Persuasion?
>>36290656But then why can't we roll a social skill altogether to remove a Strike? You're not really wounded and you don't need a doctor to put you back on your feet.
>>36290590>>36290702Thank you for sharing your opinion with us. We understand that you do not approve, but we're going to do it anyway. I realize that this may come as a shock to you, but sometimes people do these sort of things for fun.I'll give you a couple of minute to process that information.
>>36290702If it helps you sleep at night I do apply that logic to my career.
>>36290731I honestly fon't get it: if you dodged an arrow, why would you need a doctro to tell you are fine? You know you dodged that arrow. I can understand why you weould need a roll to get over the shock, but surely someone with Persuasion or Deceit or Music should be able to do that better than a nerdy guy with a degree in medicine.
>>36290731Well, if as we've been discussing up until now a loss of a Strike represents a psychological wound more than a physical one, then it stands to reason that someone who's good with people can help you get your shit together.
>>36290702>>36290590>Trolling this badly>Inb4 im super serious,
Nob, you didn't really adequately respond to this:I say Strikes shouldn't be a luck thing. Taking a Strike from a physical source is an injury like a sprained ankle, heavy bruising, or another type of flesh wound that you need to get through either by having someone give you first aid or using the patented Disney Power of Friendship. It's fairly common in Disney for people to be able to recover very quickly from injury.Psychologically given strikes are things that lessen your will to fight without hurting you physically. These are restored by someone who understands the mind talking you through it after the fight, or using the Power Of Love/Power Of Friendship to get through it.
>>36290731Why a Trait or Deceit?Here, look: "Walk if off, you faggot, you didn't even got hit". See? If that's the truth and he didn't got hit, that's just Persuasion.
>>36290738Two reasons: an actual doctor is more likely to be convincing that you're fine, rather than the guy who you know lies for a living.Two: the out of game reason is that Persuasion and Deceit already do a shitload of stuff, and the quickest way to make the Smart Guy balanced is to give him the easiest way to heal. Even when Striking with Science, it's still below the Charming skills in utility.
>>36290793This seems good to me. Can we use this instead of penalties to persuasion?
>>36290793Well, that's a shame because you're only actually wounded when you are Defeated. >>36290774Yet there is that niggling doubt in your head: you've seen this guy lie his pants off about a variety of things, so why is this any different?
>>36290827So the reason the guy that can convince you of anything can't convince you didn't get hit when you actually didn't get hit is game balance? So we are gamists now.
>>36290878>Yet there is that niggling doubt in your head: you've seen this guy lie his pants off about a variety of things, so why is this any different?Because you know you weren't hit? There's no blood or anything, so you know you never got wounded. And it wouldn't be the guy that lies, it would be the inspiring guy that keeps rallying your party with his inspiration speaches.
>>36290887I guess that's what we are, for not wanting Persuasion to cover literally every category of skill use.
>>36290827Ah, see, that out of game detail is exceptionally important.I would suggest having all Strike hit be physical wounds to fix it, but having social skills work for damaging is sort of important...Science is a pretty big skill though, if you consider that it covers an enormous part of human knowledge. A guy with high Science could find lots of ways of making himself useful.
>>36290878I was considering Defeated to mean just that: unable to to resist anymore. This can mean that you are just to injured to put up a fight, or it can mean that your indomitable spirit has finally been crushed, but it doesn't mean you died. I see no reason to make it this esoteric "almost hit" deal. Also, taking one hit isn't enough to take you out of the fight, but 3 or 4 is.
>>36290933Wouldn't it be used only to. . . persuade people?
>>36290931And yet you can feel that phantom pain of almost-being-hit, that terror that you're actually wounded and you just haven't noticed it/started bleeding yet.
>>36290957That's what it means, yes.>>36290973Shouldn't that just go away in a minute or two? I can just sit and if I don't bleed to death it means I'm fine.
>>36290931Yes, the arrow missed you; but it got so close at you, and if you had been standing just a bit to the right instead...This sort of thoughts are the kind of stuff that a loss of a Strike represents. The grounded, rational flavor of Science helps to banish those doubts.
>>36290943Strikes, both physical and emotional, reduce your ability to fight. They stack because emotional strikes reduce your determination that lets you keep fighting through a sprained ankle, and physical pain breaks your focus and makes you want to stop fighting more.
>>36290973So everyone keeps fainting because during the last fight they thought they were wounded and are still scared of that even if they checked?
>>36290958Or convince people, or strike, or heal for some reason, or whatever new use they come up with in the next ten minutes.>>36290957Really a shame then: that's literally how the rules have always been. There's no more reason to add more granularity for >muh verisimilitude.>>36290943Science isn't as big as you think it is. There's also Academics and Occult, and Occult gets rolled a shitload more often.
>>36290973>>36291002Like he>>36291023said: does this mean everyone keeps losing because they are still scared of pissibly having taken a wound that morning?
>>36291027maybe it should only deal and heal mental strikes, so it can't actually heal a strike dealt with a sword.
>>36291048Without getting it checked, yes.
>>36291027>Really a shame then: that's literally how the rules have always been.But he described how Strikes have always been!>I was considering Defeated to mean just that: unable to to resist anymore. This can mean that you are just to injured to put up a fight, or it can mean that your indomitable spirit has finally been crushed, but it doesn't mean you died. I see no reason to make it this esoteric "almost hit" deal. Also, taking one hit isn't enough to take you out of the fight, but 3 or 4 is.>>36291078That's not Disney, that's a party of pussies!
Any thoughts on the NIMH stuff in the last thread? Good? Bad? Pure faggotry? Going to keep writing with the assumption that people like some of it.Basil>killed by Ratigan or fed to the cat>kept alive by Ratigan and imprisoned. Ratigan an considers Basil the only one of equal genius and therefore the only one able to appreciate his scheming>joined the rescue and truth society>last seen with Justin the Rat, neither have been seen since. It is said that they were discussing a plan to defeat Ratigan once and for all. >some claim the detective now resides in the sewers, researching some great conspiracy. Some claim it's still only about Ratigan but others claim to have heard Basil muttering to himself about the Demon of the Mountain
>>36291076>muh versimilitude This is a rules-light game. You're adding more rules literally for the sake of being more complex.
This whole thing makes sense from a crunch standpoint, but looking at fluff it makes the PCs look like massive pussies.Isn't there some way we can make it so that they're taking damage of some sort (Damaged armor, light wounds, etc) so that it's not that three close misses makes the nimble guy piss his pants?
>>36291078By a doctor? You need a certified doctor to tell you that no, that arrow that almost hit you two hours ago didn't actually hit you?
>>36291114Nob, now you're starting to sound retarded: we are making everyone pussies because it looks too complex to you? This is not about muh verisimilitude, this is about being Disney characters! We are fighting against THE DARKNESS OF THE LAND, and we keepo going down because we are scared of being hit hours ago without realizing it?
>>36291027I think what you roll more depends on the type of campaign. I can think of a lot of situations where Science would be useful.>Build explosives using common household material.>Locate the one column that's holding most of the temple's weight,>Recognize that the mushroom the Aghraban's official is serving you are poisonous. >Remember that it's the hyenas' mating season, so they will be too busy to stop you from reaching Pride's Rock.
>>36291128Sverd is right, this is crazy: I'm not going to play a brave hero that lets the villain win because he need a doctor to tell him he's not bleeding!
>>36291163Such pussies, to nearly get shot at, stabbed, exploded, magicked, etc multiple times in an hour and not be entirely ready to go toe-to-toe with a hellspawn abomination.
>>36291027NOB, PLEASE BE OPEN TO OPINIONS.You've responded to my last 3 suggestions just by saying "what a shame". You've been totally rejecting all suggestions by anons, and you seem to just be arguing for a strangely esoteric system of near-misses. I appreciate the fact that you've made great contributions to the crunch already, and the crunch system put in place so far is good, but you've started just defending your system instead of building onto it and tweaking it to fit better. This isn't how the system was built, and this isn't how the system will get better. My suggestions, if you read them objectively, change none of the crunch, just add a physical or psychological effect to fix. I really like what has been done so far, but it isn't perfect, and things can always be improved. Please just read these comments with an open mind.
>>36291198Well, yes. Being retardedly brave is pretty damn Disney.
In order to solve this problem, we need to either nerf the Charismatic guy's powers, so that he can accomodate encouraging in such a way as to heal strikes without becoming overpowered, or buff the Smart Guy so that he's as useful as his charismatic counterpart.
>>36291198And yet you need a doctor to tell you that no, that arrow that got stuck in that tree over there is not lodged in your spleen. Are we all playing Kronks?
>>36291166>build explosivesCraft.The other ones are fine.
>>36291222Or we could just keep track of how we got hit and heal social strikes with social skills.>>36291224How about this? >>36290536 >>36290560It's cool, I like it.
>>36291222See, this is the overall problem right here; The charismatic skills are too useful compared to Science. I'd be completely open to allowing people to heal strikes with other skills if those other skills weren't so damn broad already.Multiple types of strikes is a goddamn retarded idea, because all it does is add more paperwork for people to keep track of in a ruleslight game.>>36291250Dual roll types are good. I'd have included them already in a playtest if we had needed them.
>>36291224>build explosives>Craft.Could people please tell me what they think of dual-rolling, like I suggested here? >>36290536>I suggest we implement a new rule: Dual-skill rolls. To perform certain tasks, you must complete two checks. For example, to make a potion, I would make a Science check with Intelligence to know what to put in the potion, and a Craft check with Agility to have the steady hands to mix it all together. For another example from this thread, to convince someone they have a disease, I'd make a Deceive check and a Science check. This lets us categorize checks much better.They bridge the gap between skills pretty well
It seems I'm not the only one having problems with this "I fainted because I thought I've been wounded hours ago". Can we fix it? BEcause it sounds really, really really awful for a game of great adventures.
>>36291265All the paperwork that need to be added is the existence of both Body strikes and Mind strikes. It's not that much.
>>36291265>Multiple types of strikes is a goddamn retarded idea, because all it does is add more paperwork for people to keep track of in a ruleslight game.You only need to write P or S next to the Strike! That's not more paperwork!
>>36291277Look, I think it pretty much works, but let's try to fix this problem before tackling another one, okay?
Playtest #3 starts in 40 minutes.Join here;https://app.roll20.net/join/585117/yX0x1w>>36291277It's a thought. I'm a bit busy, but when I have time I'll put out some ideas of how to do it, like doing one check and then another or just adding both skills together for a roll.>>36291291It's not fainting. It depends on what did the last strike; it could be literally being shot if physical, or just losing your will to go on.>>36291293That literally doubles hitpoints in the game, breaks the Strong Guy, changes how Strikes work upon tier-up, breaks a number of traits, and breaks at least one power.
>>36291265Why is everything we say retarded to you? I just don't want to go down because I almost got hit hours ago and I need a doctor to tell me I'm fine.
>>36291223You sure are.
>>36291111I appreciate your ideas coming up with Rumor Mill stuff, but I'm not going to include expansion stuff yet. So the NIMH stuff isn't going to be touched upon.Although, I have to ask: if there are settings/topics you want to see explored, why don't you start to try writing some fluff instead?
>>36291321That literally doubles hitpoints in the game.No, they would still stack together! Why do you never pay attention to us?!
Social strikes being healed as they are are fine, but why can't we just have physical strikes be healed by Craft to represent patching up armor? >>36291321Probably just gonna observe.
Alright, look. If everyone is so fixated on dual strikes because we want to restructure the entire system, here's a compromise; You count what kind of strike you took because people seem to want that a lot. Persuasion can heal Mental strikes, Science can heal both kinds of strikes, and some other skill could heal only physical strikes. Thoughts?>>36291362Then why does the strong guy get an additional strike, if mental and physical strikes are so different?
>>36291321Have you already decided which characters are gonna play?
>>36291321The only thing that would change would be one power and some traits. Let's just change those.Why would it be easier to say that being missed three times that morning is enough to make you go down at the next miss? A flesh wound would be better.
>>36291390Nah. Bring a character. First come, first serve, but I reserve the right to boot oldcomers out to allow some newcomers to try.
>>36291388From the 1d4chan page:>Having HUGE GUTS and an even bigger heart, he can safely take 4 Strikes instead of 3.String Guys are stronk.
>>36291384>>36291388Physical strikes getting healed by Craft to represent damaged armor sounds fine to me.
>>36291321I might drop in as a monkey if it's still going 3 hours in and it's okay with everyone.
>>36291415Well, I've posted multiple, so let me know which you want.
>>36291388That's not a compromise: that's exactly what we were asking for, but with Science being able to heal both. Sure.>>36291429Thank you based rules.
>>36291454I suspect this is one of those things that'll be quickly homeruled out by anyone with any sense of balance, since Persuasion is now literally a god-tier skill, but we'll see.
>>36291321Yes, doing that and rebalancing the whole thing will take a certain amount of work; but it's necessary. You've made a good system, Nob, but it's not perfect, and this is a particular glaring flaw that needs fixing.I realize that we're sort of calling your baby ugly: but unlike a literal infant, we can fix this and improve upon it. Now, onto the objections you've understandably raised:>Doubles the hitpoints in the game.I'd say it makes sense for Disney heroes to be resilient. And most enemies will target one or the other, anyway.>Breaks the Strong GuyThis is a more serious concern. I'd say we give him an extra Soul strike as well; we did say in his description that he's big of heart as well as body.>Changes how strikes work upon tier-upNot by that much: just give extra Strikes in both categories.>Breaks a number of traits and at least one power.This will take some more precise fine-tuning, but we should be able to put it together.
>>36291388>we want to restructure the entire systemNothing would change! It'd just solve a problem we are having with one unimportant rule making everyone look like a giant wuss!
>>36291476>You've made a good system, NobJust to be clear: you know he didn't make any of the general rules? he made a lot of traits and powers, but we made the system together, before he started trying to change everything.
>>36291476stop right here. We already agreed that the Strike types stack, they don't come from separate pools
>>36291502Except the dice system, the concept of traits, skills, ranks for skills, the classes, roles, and design concepts, yes.
>>36291474Maybe we should split Persuasion into multiple skills, so that its power is shared?
>>36291476>Doubles the hitpoints in the game.They would still tack together.>Breaks the Strong GuyIt doesn't, nothing changes.>>Changes how strikes work upon tier-upNo it wouldn't: they still work the same way.
>>36291521I'm sorry, I was under the impression that this is what we were aiming at. Then how exactly does it work?
>>36291526No, I was there when ROBUSTNESS guy (praise be his name) reminded you that he made the attributes, the skills, the ranks for them, the roles and the equipment. And you admitted hne was right.
>>36291528or we could just reassign the "talk down" feature of the skill to something like Insight, which would still make sense. Empathy would be just as useful or more so than persuasion for talking someone through shit
I'm not a crunchmeister, but what if, instead of making different mental healing stuff, we just make it an ability to heal Strikes by spending 1 or more Will points? Like 2 at a time?Uses something already in the game and doesn't tack on too much.
>>36291552They all stack together, but we take note of how they were inflicted and heal them (but most importantly, role play them) in different ways.
>>36291528Last I checked, the skills we merged were Barter and Persuasion, and Disguise and Deceit. >>36291565He made the attributes. If you want to go back and check the skills, I made those. He made the specific powers for half of the roles, I did the other half. I didn't contest him at the time because it was completely irrelevant, and all it does is bring up a shitflinging contest.
>>36291584One thing at a time, Pirate Monky. Let's see if we can get separated strikes back in first.>>36291598No, I checked back there, and he was right: he came up with the Skill lists and their ranks and he made all the roles and roles ability. You can't trick me, it's in the archives.
>>36291598Never even knew we had barter and disguise.
>>36291616If you want, I can literally dredge up where I suggested 6-rank skills and the skill list as it stands today with a few exceptions, all of the class powers, the 4d6k3 and a few other role powers, and the roles which sort of... naturally sprung from the statistics.Of course, you don't actually care, you're just trying to start an argument. 5/10 got me to reply.>>36291639Disguise lasted maybe a thread. Barter is still technically on the 1d4chan page, although it shouldn't be.
>>36291639Neither did I, but let's split Persuasion into two skills if we really need to nerf it.
>>36291589In order to represent that, we could have strikes be represented by circles on the sheet, that one fills with an M or a P depending on what sort of wound he received.How does that sound?
>>36291656Barter is not on the page. I never even saw it there.>>36291671That's perfect and very easy to use. It's everything I've ever wanted.
One slot open in the roll20 game. Join in!
>>36291671FINALLY! THANK YOU MAN, I LOVE YOU!
>>36291671Works for me. Something like it should go in the official character sheet.
>>36291671I like it a lot, honestly: it's clear, intuitive and easy to use.
So, now that we are finally done with Strikes, do we split Persuasion in two or more Skills?Is it overpowered as it stands? Suggestions? Opinion?
>>36291804Can we talk about it another time? We did enough crunch already and I'd like to go back to fluff, only fluff, for this thread.
A couple of questions: do we call them Mental and Physical strikes, or Body and Soul strikes? Or something else entirely?Also, now we need to nerf Persuasion. Maybe we could could create the skill Inspire, and use that to heal Soul strikes? We also need to buff the Smart Guys. Their social counterpart can both heal a kind of strike and convince people; they can heal a kind of strike and... what else?
>>36291851If you feel like making fluff, I doubt anyone will stop you, but if someone feels like making crunch, let them make crunch.
>>36291865Mental and Physical is good.Inspire sounds good.Science can heal both strikes, not only one kind. It's both bandages and drugs, after all>>36291851Fair enough.
>>36291865Mental and Physical.The problem with creating Inspire is that it would overlap heavily with Music and basically have created another extremely limited skill. What would it be able to do, outside of healing wounds? If it buffs, it steps on Music's toes like nobody' s business.Smart Guys can use Science to strike, as of some anon's wise ideas last thread.
>>36291865Don't forget that you can use social skills to harm.
I know Anastasia isn't Disney (no matter how often it is mistaken for it), but do think there could be room made for Rasputin as a cross-universe immigrant?Not in a position of power, per se - I doubt he could wrest Russia from Chernobog - but just as a sort of wandering variable. He is so like this place, but also not.
>>36291865>Body and Soul Strikes sounds good, but Mental and Physical is more intuitive.>>36291865>>36291892>>36291901Maybe we need a Skill that let's you heal AND deal mental Strikes, while Persuasion and Deceit are only for convincing and lying.
>>36291909You can also use mental skills to harm.>>36291930That'd nerf social character just a bit: they'd just need to buy one skill more.
>>36291924He's definitely top of the list when we get to non-disney properties.>>36291962That's probably a good thing, but I'm busy so I'll let someone else pick up this argument
Huntsmen Cocktail Hour and Clarisse Song writer from the previous thread here, looking to fluff something else up in the next couple days. Does anyone have any suggestions for stories they want told or songs they want sung?
>>36291901Oh yeah, telling someone their gonna die of explosive wombosis and shit. love that
>>36291901How about splitting it between Empathy and Persuasion, then? Empathy can be used to influence others, but only if you're being 100% honest and supportive of them. It's the skill of the kind child, of the smiling old lady, of the gruff farmer with an heart of gold. It's also the skill that restores Strikes.Persuasion works in any circumstance, but cannot be used to heal.Is that enough? Could we expand upon Empathy?As for using Science to strike... how would that work, exactly?>>36291892Science being a multi-healer is a start, but is it enough?
>>36291988Something about Wonder Land, please.>>36291962>>36291984One skill more is all the nerf we need: we just have to scale them down a little, not fuck them over.
>>36291984>He's definitely top of the list when we get to non-disney properties.Cool, good to know.
>>36291988Some sort of adventures on the high seas, any faction that isn't landlocked.
>>36292014Like this anon >>36291998 said, you diagnose them with some horrible disease and watch them run away to find a cure.
>Check wiki>"McLeah, Clayton and Gaston of the Elite Global Huntsman Club"I'm dying.
Soooo...What happened to Cortes?
>>36291962One skill is fine: they are a bit op, not wizarding rape machine.
>>36292104Probably stole a bunch of Gold and ran off.
>>36292120I think he means the Spanish conquistador from Road to El Dorado.
>>36292043>Something about Wonder Land, please.>>36292071>Some sort of adventures on the high seas, any faction that isn't landlocked.Maybe something about a Wonderland Pirates and Punchfairies?
>>36292079That's... sort of very specific. It needs expansion, but it's 1 AM here and I need to hit the hay. I'm glad I could contribute to this discussion and I was able to come up with something you guys liked: you guys keep this ball rolling and we'll be golden.>>36292097The EGHC might be the most beloved faction in the game.They also include Buldeo, who was supposed to appear in the Jungle Book https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdXts3TGncQAnd they are on Cruella DeVille's payroll
>>36292014I think Persuasion and Deceit should turn into Persuasion (to persuade people), Deceit (to deceive people), plus a third Skill that let's you deal and heal mental strikes. I'd call it "The Old Social One Two".
>>36292165>And they are on Cruella DeVille's payrollThat is strangely perfect in a way I didn't even think about.Are the playtests streamed/recorded anywhere?
We can combine Empathy with Insight, they'd do the same thing fluff-wise
>>36292189All skills can be used to deal Strikes if you can justify it. The third skill would need it's own niche.
>>36292209Check the OP.
>>36292165And Muntz and Amos Slade, let us not forget them. Nor their founder the mysterious Man.
>>36289822Question: How come no other villain has straight up murdered Ursula? I mean, a friggen human did her in, and that was just with a old ship
>>36292219Insight already covers an incredible amount of uses; It can be used to detect lies, it can be used to spot things, etc etc. It could be described as 'sensibility, the skill'.
>>36292165I wrote something small about the EGHC in the last thread, and I'm looking for ideas for my next piece of nonsense.http://pastebin.com/JzXuezMF
>>36292209The first one was in a pastebin: I don't know about the others.
>>36292223But we are trying to nerf social character, right? If persuasion is overpowered, we should just stop it from being used for striking. Or least most of the time: the third skill would be the one your most of the time in social combat.
>>36292232>>36292259Oop, somehow missed that. Thanks.
>>36292269We should make a list of Skills you can always use for dealing Strikes without problems, while you'd need heavy justification to use the others. So, Melee, Ranged, Brawl, this unnamed social Skill and maybe Science can Strike without having to give explanations, while the other sillks need reasoning.
Streaming a playtest right now if you want to spectate: https://app.roll20.net/join/585117/yX0x1w
>>36292307Ignore that one in the middle, though. Don't do that.
Hi everyone, this guy again.Is there a guide or brief thing to character creation I can look at? Having a hard time figuring it all out just looking through the pastebins, or maybe I'm just missing something.
>>36292337This man is not the real Sverd. You should definitely do the Elsverd scene. Also, I like dicks.
>>36292357>>36292377The day I put on a tripcode is the day that I commit suicide.
>>36292377No, I'm Sverd!
>>36292397I'm Twilsa Sverdstarter!
>>36292307>Something about what the fuck is going on in JapanActually, that's a thought. Doesn't Disney hold the distribution rights for all Studio Ghibli productions? Maybe the forest god in Princess Mononoke stayed dead, nature withered, and Iron Town spread outwards until it consumed the whole country and became the Iron Islands.
>>36292427A nice idea, but we already talked about it and decided it didn't reflect the Disney spirit we are looking for.Still, if you can write something interesting for it we could change our minds [wink wink]
>>36292431Of course you are.
>>36292461Good name. I approve.
>>36292459Ah, I see.I've been off /tg/ for some time for a lot of reasons, so this thread is the first I've heard of any of this.
>>36292483You could still write something about your idea. We always enjoy a good story.
>>36292504Not worth the risk. The trolls will pick it up and start trying to force Ghibli back in in order to start shit.
>>36292504I'll see if I can whip something up then just as soon as I'm finished with this other thing.
>>36292544The trolls will pick up ANYTHING and use it to start shit. You've gotta get used to it.
>>36292544Yes, of course Commissar.
>>36292555True, but do we really want to give them that much ammunition?
>>36291354Fair enough ill do that then. I'm posting in between flights, I'll have to wait for my computer to write longer stuff. But anywho, more regular disneyDawson>dead, killed by Ratigan or eaten by the cat>with the rescue and truth society if Basil is not >returned to Afghanistan to find his old unit>disguised as a sailor he travels around establishing contracts and collecting info>always drunk at the mouse strip club
>All these new confusing ideasI leave for three days and suddenly it all stops making senseI'm not against it, but can someone explain to me why it was necessary to make it a rule to separate Social and Physical strikes? If they still stack then isn't that kind of redundant?
>>36292744It resolves the somewhat thorny issue of Science removing strikes but Persuasion not doing so. I'll let someone else explain it. I've got too much of a dog in the fight.
>>36292744This was how it looked like without these rules:>>36291107>>36291128>>36291163
>>36292744You should probably read the thread, since we talked about it a lot, but basically, it's an incredibly minor change that let's you heal with both Science and a social skill strikes you took for mental reasons, while leavingactual wounds curable only with actual medicine.
>>36292744Because heroes were left shaken for hours after being missed by an arrow, even if the party told them that they were fine.
>>36292864If you're wearing armor I thought we decided healing with Craft was justifiable as well.
>>36292864>>36292920Also, I still think it makes sense, because you can't take THAT many hits, assuming each hit is one strike. You don't survive a dozen arrows to the face, you survive three arrows and then you go down.
>>36292938It's not bad, but Craft already does a lot of shit. Also: what if I take off my armor? Do I get back that Strike?
>>36292744It's the /tg/ way: after being excited about a new project for a couple of days, we will inevitably start tearing it apart until we eventually get bored and forget all about it. This is part of the natural balance that keeps /tg/ from ever getting anything done, but also saves us from stupid projects.
To the writer of the Huntsmen's Cocktail Hour:It is very, very nice, but you commited a grave error: you forgot about Buldeo!
>>36292983We've been working on this for a week and a half, finished a playable alpha and are playtesting.So, uh, no.
>>36292814>>36292833>>36292864>>36292920Aah. I see, alright. Thanks.How did the third playtest go?
>>36292975Careful, you don't get hit by three arrows: you get grazed by three arrows. It's the fourth one that hits you and takes you down.
>>36292983The project has been going for two weeks and has a working system attached.>>36292981Craft does, admittedly, do an awful lot.
>>36293017>being this new to /tg/, and this oblivious
>>36292983At this very moment, people are playtesting this project of ours.This is the third playest that has been done up until now. We are doing this, man. We're making this happen.
>>36293028I give it two more weeks, top, before we all forget it ever existed.
>>36293020Still going.>>36293028What if making drugs and explosives was done with Science, instead of Craft?
>>36292744That's my fault. Being the lazy fuck I am, I brought it up as a question a thread back because I couldn't find it on the 1d4chan.Then people were behind it long after I decided it was stupid and everything spun out of control.
>>36293035>>36293067Go home, Steampunk goblin man.
>>36293051>implying /tg/ ever gets shit done
>>36293067Well, I really hope two weeks from now the system will be done for good.
>>36293068It should be done with both. Science to work out the necessary chemical formulae, Craft to actually make the things. We agreed on some tasks requiring two skill rolls last thread.
>>36293068Eh, then that makes too much reliant on Science, which is perfectly balanced now. I think Craft should be used to create just about everything but should have other skills applied to it if you want to create something... specialized.
>>36293093But what if we add steam punk goblins to it? Would you like it better?
>>36293123>>36293124So, this, okay. basically, if you want to craft you can do it, but really complex stuff requires another roll before the craft one
>>36293078>>36293126Paranoia is giving the troll what he wants. Ignore him.
So are the rules for creature sizes still arbitrarily unbalanced and nonsensical?
>>36293012I know I did, I know it! I'd written a good deal of it on my phone and by the time I'd posted it I realized my mistake.
>>36293188This is new! You never baited us with this before.
>>36293188Post suggestions for fixing them then.
Concerning craft and its multitude of uses, I agree that things like explosives and whatnot should be made with science. Or, a double roll for science + craft with a higher TN.It would give the smart guy power No More Chinese Laundry more punch and I think it'd work a lot better for an Alchemist archetype, tooCraft should be things like pure handwork like making traps, carving, even disarming things and putting together different partsScience is for medicine, explosives, determining sickness, maybe figuring out what is poisonous or not. That'd probably be a double roll with Travel, but that's GM fiat I feel
>>36293242Sounds good to me.
>>36293242Craft should really be required for anything that requires handwork to make -- it's about skill and precision.I agree that you should probably need some other skill attached to the majority of it's uses to make it balanced, though.
>>36293260Well, doesn't it already roll with nimbleness/agility? I though that was everything from "moves fast" to "reacts fast" and "has lots of dexterity"
>>36293214Add agility penalty for gigantic. See, not that hard.Also, make up your minds if it's Gigantic or Giant, instead of using both.
>>36293300Depending on how you do it, you could do craft with Intelligence if you're carefully laying out plans, etc, sensibility for common sense, and absolutely nothing I can think of with Charm.We really should decide if crafting something specialized requires one roll to succeed, then a Craft roll to succeed, or if it's just Attribute+Craft+Skill against a higher TN
>>36293342Paintings? I remember talks about flower arrangements. Artistic stuff.
>>36293329Giant-Gigantic is exactly the same thing. I'll fix it in the next update.Agility penalty is a possibility, but Giant creatures are already over-penalized compared to Tiny creatures by virtue of being too large to fit indoors.
>>36293208What? I've only posted in these thread once before, I'm just trying to point out that the size rules are flawed.Or is this one of those things where everyone starts shouting "LOL TROLL" every time someone says anything they don't like? Because that kinda sucks.
>>36293342>crafting something specializedTwo rolls: the first one to see if he knows how to make it, the second one to see if he can make it.
>>36293342I think making the specialized ones Craft+Second skill with a higher TN is fair.I mean, if it IS that specialized, then of course it should be harder, at least that feels intuitive.As for crafting with charm, I'm quite sure it'd require knowing what the public wants to see and making it look like that, although I feel that's not very good
>>36293363And Tiny creatures are palatalized by being too tiny to use most objects or reach doorknobs. What's your point?
>>36293370Trying to flase flag us? How original.
>>36293402Except that most tiny creatures can use doorknobs, and all creatures except Humans and Primates can't use equipment. Not being able to fit inside in a game that's mostly social is a near-death sentence.
>>36293402In addition to a penalty to strength, mind you.
Also, one though: how do we determine what needs to be specialized?Explosives, Vehicles, Motors, Weapons, Armor, that all should require either a second skill added and a higher roll, or only be possible after you attain a high enough skill levelAimpler things should be trap making, carving, sewing, and assembling small things together
>>36293457>vehicles, motorsMechanics. Leave it as-is.>explosivesNo idea.>weapons, armorCraft. Not even particularly difficult for a disney protagonist unless it's like, a specialized gun or something.
>>36293457Case by case, by common sense and GM's fiats. There's no need to make a rule for that.
>>36293443And so is being so small you can't move most objects. Also, how does a mouse, even a Disney mouse, use a doorknob by itself?
>>36293407...I can no longer tell if you're joking or genuinely delusional.
>>36293480I agree: making hard and fast rules for it would be insane after we spent a thread arguing about how complex it'd be to divide strikes into social and physicals.
>>36293483Most animals aren't Miniscule size, like you're saying. That's just Insects. It's also significantly less of a penalty than being unable to use vehicles, go indoors, or use any sort of equipment.
>>36293472Well, I always though mechanics was more along the lines of knowing how to work and maybe fix those things, but not making that shit from scratch.As for weapons and armors, I mean like, forging. Might not need a second slill but should have a higher TN, no? You can't exactly do it anywhere and easily. Patching up something is one thing, making it all is another
>>36293512Listen man, we know you're troll, you know your'e troll, let's just end it here. Go away and I'll give you a 6/10 for your try, ok?
Fidget the Bat>one of Ratigan chief agents>commands a group of bats sworn to Ratigan who live in Big Ben>no longer of use to Ratigan now that Ratigan has taken control the bat is an angry, bitter person. He believes he deserved far more and likely be convinced to betray Ratigan. Be wary though, he could be a double agent>visits the mouse strip club where he has been given control. Better than stock options I suppose>killed by Ratigan as he purged the old ranks>left for dead one to many times he is a willing and semi loyal ally to anyone who can earn his trust and treat him with respect
>>36293555I'm not trolling, I'm actually trying to talk with you people, but you're too busy being jerks. So try not to be jerks for a few moments, right?
>>36293555He may not actually be a troll, he may just be new. Best to give the benefit of the doubt until he says something really obvious or stupid.
>>36293580He writes just like wizards, and come on, we know it's him.
>>36293577>that uncalled for aggressionYou think you can actually fool us, can't you?
>>36293580This. I'm new, not a troll, but you're all being jerks for no real reason. Is this one of those "if you're not part of our cliche, we're gonna hate you" thing? Because that's a bit lame.
>>36293577It's the time of day, friend. All the paranoid dickwads come out at night. And those that aren't normally paranoid dickwads suddenly start being paranoid dickwads because it's easier than explaining things to the new people.>>36293601Knightfag, why are you such a raging cunt at this time of day/night? You're fine the rest of the day.
>>36293613It's pretty much one guy being a cunt.
>>36293600Who is wizards?>>36293601Well, I guess that's what I get for trying to talk things out with people.
>>36293613And here we go again, with the accuse of circlejerking. It's getting old and predictable, wizards.
>>36293600>He writes just like wizardsYou mean he uses proper grammar and punctuation, also capitalising his sentences? Do we all need to type in fucking Chinese to convince you we aren't a troll from ten threads ago?
Well, I tried to get into this thing, but apparently these thread is some kind of Members Only club. I'm so, so sorry for bothering you with my stupid new-ness, sirs.
>>36293639More specifically, this guy.>>36293656
>>36293656Wizards left these threads ages ago. He was here for a couple of threads, man. Being paranoid is letting him win.>>36293683Don't worry about it. Some people are just assholes. Welcome to the project. They'll be gone in a few hours, don't worry. Any questions about it you think need answering?
>>36293705You're absolutely hilarious, namefag.
>>36293705Because so many girls use /tg/. On top of being paranoid, you're now being an SJW too?>>36293716Hey, let's not insult the namefags just because they have names. On projects like this, we need namefags, or we wouldn't have any kind of organisational structure. Anywhere else, say what you like. Here, it's a necessity.
>>36293737Pretty sure he was>implyingthat they were the same poster.
>>36293752Then why reply to the post saying they aren't? Knightfag, if you misclicked, I withdraw any accusations of being an SJW.
>>36293708Well, mainly it's just minor stuff about the traits and stuff being poorly designed in places (like one that gives you +4 on a roll that involves a certain penalty, instead of just having it ignore the penalty. This is needlessly confusing), but otherwise was just curious about these threads since I've seen them a lot. But frankly, my interest is kinda stoked now that I got greeted by everyone calling me a troll for no actual reason.
>>36293737You may say he's become quite. . . the whiteknight.
>>36293737I wasn't insulting him because he's a namefag, I'm insulting him for either acting like an asshole or thinking he's funny.
>>36293779Balance on traits is a serious issue that we unfortunately haven't gotten around to yet. Suggestions on it would be nice.
>>36293779There's just a couple of assholes who come into these threads when they wake up. They attempted trolling a while ago, now they're pretending to be the trolls they stopped. Except Knightfag, I don't even know what his problem is.Although yeah, the tropes definitely need some work.>>36293813In which case, it's best not to use "namefag" as an insult. It's something the troll did a few threads back that everyone is now paranoid about because reasons.
>>36293737So it's verboten to reply to insult if the insult-giver was a namefag? This is weird.
>>36293799Carlos, you aren't from a Disney franchise. Go away.>>36293853No, you just shouldn't use "namefag" as an insult if you aren't implying that's why he's bad. It's like calling a black guy a nigger as part of an argument and being surprised when everyone thinks you're racist.
>>36293845What? I didn't use namefag as an insult. It's a general 4chan term for people who use names. You're reading way too much into this.Is this a common thing on this thread, people just taking insult from things for no reason?
>>36293886Sorry, it's just that most often when I see people calling somebody a namefag, it's in a negative sense. Not to mention I do read too deeply into things sometimes.
>>36293853We just have a lot of namefags and they are all quite touchy about the subject. Just. . . let it go.
>>36293878>implying namefag is an insultYou're new, aren't you?
>>36293909See >>36293906. I never hear people directly referring to namefags as "namefags" unless they're insulting them.
You know, clearly these threads are too much trouble to be worth it. Either everyone calls you a troll, or you get the internet butthurt police on you. Have fun, this thing has gone way too deep into exclusive circlejerk territory to be salvaged.
>>36293950See you timorrow, wizards.
>>36293973Wizard, I know it's you. Stop pretending to be hunting for yourself just so you can drive people away from the project.
>>36293973I sincerely wish there was something you could be banned for so you would stop trying to get rid of any new people with an interest in this system.
>>36293208>>36293407>>36293555>>36293600>>36293601>>36293656>>36293705>>36293737>>36293845>>36293878>>36293906>>36293938>>36293973Jesus Christ, why is everyone here a cunt?Everyone here is a cunt.
>>36294004>>36294033Oh come on, you all know it was him! He was two posts away from proposing magic as a solution!
I've archived this thread alongside the others. I'd hoped that things would have calmed down a little in the new thread, but it seems that tensions are still somewhat elevated.http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?searchall=Disney+Villains+VictoriousCan't we all just get along?
>>36294062We fed the bloody troll, didn't we.
Huh, guys.I know it's kind of a given that tgere will be trolls and wizards trying to shit up the project, but I think they're kinda suceeding with all this shit flingingLet's all take a chill pill, yo
>>36294111I'd hope everyone could quiet down and work together. We're running a playtest RIGHT NOW if anyone's interested in spectating. https://app.roll20.net/join/585117/yX0x1w
My goddamn internet is down, wasting a cent on this post. Fuck bright house.
What if starting equipment was based on how many bonuses they would give towards skills?Example: The item cap is 5.>+2 Prevent Harm Armor>+2 Melee Sword>+1 Occult Book
>>36294244That's... Actually a pretty good idea. Number itself may have to be tweaked, but the idea is solid as fuck.
>>36294244So like, you can't have starting items that give you a total bonus past a certain number?That's solid. Pretty solid. Would make minmaxing kinda easy at first but I still like it
>>36294244I like its simplicity, and how it would allow the players to kit their characters out however they wanted within our parameters.
>>36290590I can't post the Gummi Bears RPG on my phone.
>>36294244>Guy starts with a +5 Occult book>God damn NecronomiconI can see it happens, and it sounds glorious
>>36294476Don't feed the troll.
>>36294487It does sound pretty glorious.
>>36294487Object bonuses are limited to +3 at the moment, but that would be pretty funny. Should we take away the +3 limit to non-weapon non-armor objects?
>>36294500Boy are you late for this!>>36294530I don't even remember ever talking about that limit, so yeah, sure.
>>36294530Well, I'd say it depends. After all combat isn't necessarily the principal so I'm not sure if it would make much of a difference on the possible OP
>>36294610It was decided back when we were giving out weapon bonuses, to prevent minmaxing.
>>36294642Ah, fuck that: we just need to make items with bigger bonuses rare and mysterious shit.
>>36294677Yeah, bonuses above +2 are usually advanced, and bonuses above +3 are rare, mysterious, and occasionally magical, at least for weapons.
>>36294708Yeah, that's good. Maybe let's say that you can't go higher than +3 at character creation.
Now to back up the item talk with some traits!>Diamond in the Rough - You gain a bonus to skills tests to decipher the value (statistical or otherwise) of an item. Science for chemicals, Academics for books (Linguistics for foreign ones), and whatnots.>Not the Face! - You're too pretty to die. Whenever you would take a Strike from physical sources, you can have an item on your person take the hit instead. You get away relatively unharmed, but the item is damaged or destroyed.
>>36294778>Not the Face! - You're too pretty to die. Whenever you would take a Strike from physical sources, you can have an item on your person take the hit instead. You get away relatively unharmed, but the item is damaged or destroyed.Perfect!
>>36294778Diamond in the rough: Make it +2. It's wide enough that it doesn't warrant much of a bonus beyond that.Not the Face!: Good. Specify that the item needs to give +1 at least, thogh. Don't want people crowding their inventory with brooms to tank hits.Please make more, these are good.
Remember folks that we will need a new thread before too long!
>>36294897>People crowding their inventory with broomsAnd all of a sudden I am, again, reminded of Mickey messing about with the brooms in Fantasia
>>36294530I say keep the weapon bonuses as they were: +1 for one-hand, +2 for 2-hand, +3 for Greatsword and Bow, which have ROBUSTNESS requirements