>Previous Threads:>http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Known%20SpaceYou are Michael Greystone: BOLO Supertank Commander turned Free Trader, Smuggler, borderline Outlaw, and more recently Interstellar Folk Hero. You have been given Governorship over the Megacorp-chartered Mining Colony of Tempest. Your duty is to manage your colony effectively, pay off your debt to AAA Planetary Industries and the host of smaller entities that funded this venture, protect your fledgling world from any threats that come your way, and build the foundations for a shining example of what a Commonwealth World can be.Provided you can stop, or at least limit, the coming bloodshed.The New Yakuza, street-level enforcers and unaffiliated small-time gangs rounded up by the Neo-Tokyo press-gangs that provided half your new Colonists, have been making a nuisance of themselves since your Colonists first set foot on this world. They've been harassing work crews, stealing useless construction materials out of sheer habit, and recently have begun exerting their authority over your population to cement their place in charge.Unfortunately for them, half the people they're trying to intimidate are rather anti-authoritarian types from a culture where hunting and sharpshooting are popular pastimes, and military service in Planetary Defense armies and even the Commonwealth Army is common.Following escalating violence that resulted in a particularly one-sided massacre by Sniper, you've set out to put an end to this before it can start. Most of your population have been too exhausted to start trouble, what with the hard work needed to erect the Hab-Domes, but that's very nearly over, and already fear of the gangs is turning to grim anger as more and more Exiles from Neo-Tokyo begin to realize that the Yakuza have the same guns they do, and are terribly outnumbered. The Jeffersonians are already organizing into Militias for when the Yakuza make their move.>CONT
>>35596271You've got a hell of a situation on your hands here. Mob justice is too likely to end with innocents dead, and too many cases of mistaken identity may result in a wedge being driven between your two disparate populations when unity is needed the most. You must act soon.>Dales Walton Senior, whose family was at the epicenter of this problem beginning, has suggested that you offer amnesty to Yakuza that leave the gangs within the next 72 hours before acting.>'Ma Highburn', harsh Matriarch of the Highburns, who lost a trusted Ranch Hand in a Yakuza reprisal and you believe aided in the brutally efficient counter-attack, suggests that you just round them up and shoot them like the animals they are.>A man who has identified himself as a 'leader' of the New Yakuza has requested a meeting to 'settle some matters of import'.>Action?
>>35596363>A man who has identified himself as a 'leader' of the New Yakuza has requested a meeting to 'settle some matters of import'.Sure, we can talk to him.
>>35596363>A man who has identified himself as a 'leader' of the New Yakuza has requested a meeting to 'settle some matters of import'.Listen to his what he has to say.
>>35596363I'm of a mind that Walton is being pretty level headed here. I agree, put out a warning. Leave the gangs now, you have 72 hours. Any who comply in that time are safe. While that's going, bring a squad of laser and power armor equipped troops and go chat with the Yak. We want to try and talk this out.We don't want to be taken hostage.
>>35596363>A man who has identified himself as a 'leader' of the New Yakuza has requested a meeting to 'settle some matters of import'.Bring along Spider and our Security Detail.Do we have a profile of the known New Yakuza gangs and leaders? Can we get either James or Dian to give us a briefing on the major New Yakuza groups?Also, get the Neo-Tokyo Hackers we've got to disable the ID Chips from the Powered Armor and Laser Rifles that we got from the Smuggler Cache.
>>35596363>A man who has identified himself as a 'leader' of the New Yakuza has requested a meeting to 'settle some matters of import'.and when he trys to bribe or threaten us we can shoot him
>>35596271>A man who has identified himself as a 'leader' of the New Yakuza has requested a meeting to 'settle some matters of import'.And tell our Chief Admin to get an emergency court set up ASAP. Mob justice is not the solution, and we honestly should have lower level people dealing with this in the future, since we cant be the Sheriff for a million people and the governor at the same time
>>35596271>offer amnesty to Yakuza that leave the gangs within the next 72 hours before acting.>>A man who has identified himself as a 'leader' of the New Yakuza has requested a meeting to 'settle some matters of import'.>Get a justice system set up by the chief admin, have him look for former judges, court clerks and lawyers stat.
>>35596591>>35596528We would also have to get juries of peers put together. It's in our charter that our courts are jury-based, not judge-based.
>>35596821I still think that decision was the worst one of that batch. But nothing that can be done for it.
>>35596271>>35596591Voting for this, but we bring Spider with us. And dont give amnesty to people who committed homicide.>>35596821Yeah, get a jury up too.
>>35596856People wanted FULL ANARCHY, and know we're dealing with the consequences of that kind of stupidity.
>>35596903we can change it now OP just said it might cause problems
>>35596432>>35596437>>35596454>>35596522>>35596528You bring Spider, dressed casually in a leather jacket he probably killed someone for and the same gaudy Hologlasses he wore on Kommodore Scarrs bridge, and a full squad of James' best men, lead by the man himself, in Powered Armor and bearing Sabaton-pattern Pulse Laser Rifles.James has had the prospective meeting place under observation for going on three hours. It isn't hard to keep track of comings and goings, namely because it's an empty storefront occupied by youth with brightly-colored hair and flashy fake jewelry, waving their new rifles around and putting away cheap synthesized alcohol.From the looks on their faces as you approach, they expected a timid fat man or an effeminate aristocrat, not a scarred, bearded man in worn Ranchers clothing followed by a squad of troops in full Heavy Powered Armor.You don't bother waiting for the "guard" atthe entrance to step aside, simple shouldering past him as your squad stomps in behind you, the hellishly intimidating Heavy armor and glowing red opticals nicely covering Spiders quiet entrance.There's a scarred youth in a conservative suit seated at the far table, obviously suppressing panic as he realizes that no one open to intimidation would show up with homeboys in Armor.>CONT
>>35596995I am gonna call the boss Retardo, because that's what he is.
>>35596995Hey we can change our law system to judge based if we wanted to right
>>35596995I can only grin -ferociously- while imagining those Yaks' faces.
>>35596977Finally he uncrosses enough mental wires to address you, filling his voice with as much faked arrogance as he can muster."So, you're the Gaijin who runs this dump? Nice hardware on your boys there, but I'd like to see how they do in a knife fight. Now, me and my boys, they-they don't look it, but they can be subtle, a lot more subtle than those goons. you need something handled delicately..."poor kid. It would almost be a good pitch if he didn't sound like he was on the edge of panic.>"Some of my other 'goons' were good enough to keep watch on this shithole without your boys even knowing.">"You have nothing to offer, except to save me the trouble of having you killed instantly.">"The only thing I want to hear is a detailed plan for you and your boys joining polite society and looking for real jobs."
>>35597045The boss may have brains. He might realize that on this planet he will get his team killed if he keeps it up.But the lack of info on the governor, and how you ruthless dealt with pirates, slavers and your known military career makes him seem pretty stupid.
>>35597150>>"The only thing I want to hear is a detailed plan for you and your boys joining polite society and looking for real jobs."
>>35597150>"The only thing I want to hear is a detailed plan for you and your boys joining polite society and looking for real jobs.">"The last thing I need is an organized crime group being the catalyst of race riots."
>>35597150"who is in charge here?"wait for reply, if the reply is not Michael Greystone,have our personal guard subdue his guards and have spider break one of his bonesrepeat until desired answer is achived
>>35597150>The only thing I want to hear is a detailed plan for you and your boys joining polite society and looking for real jobs.>If you like, I can come back. >In my Bolo.
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Governors_QuestHey. I switched the pastebin over to a wikipedia page. Any ideas/suggestions on how I can format it better?
>>35596903i actually don't see the problem,no one is intimidated by the yaks and the only reason we are intervening is to prevent collateral damage from when the problem would have corrected itself.
>>35597150>"You have nothing to offer, except to save me the trouble of having you thrown out the airlock and used as target practice for my Bolo."
>>35597150>"You have nothing to offer, except to save me the trouble of having you killed instantly.">"The only thing I want to hear is a detailed plan for you and your boys joining polite society and looking for real jobs."We need to make it absolutely clear that we are the ones holding all the cards here while he has none whatsoever, that this will be the only chance they will get to clean up their acts, and exactly what the consequences of rejecting our generous offer will be.
>>35596903I didnt vote for full anarchy. He did fuck up the votes.What does "Legal System: Randomly selected Juries" mean anyway? Don't most countries already do that?And have an option for a defendant to have a bench trial (judge decides if you're guilty) or normal trial (Jury does)?
>>35597150>"The only thing I want to hear is a detailed plan for you and your boys joining polite society and looking for real jobs."The only difference between these guys and the pirates is that they didn't get a chance>Organized crime>Try to extort protection racker>Try to rape a girl, when she fought back, tried to kill her family (got wrong family)>Militia retaliation found the corpses of 5 girls in their lair>Small minority of the new tokyo pop>Absolutely loathed by the rest of neo tokyoThose are utter scum, we don't need nor want them. They get civilized or they get ded.
>>35597397Support for this. Also. This is hilarious. Think he'd wet himself if we said 'Kzinti'?Probably suffer anal prolapse if we said 'Bolo'.
>>35597150>"The only thing I want to hear is a detailed plan for you and your boys joining polite society and looking for real jobs.">"The last thing I need are you guys starting a race riot.">"If you don't want to talk right now, I can come back later with my BOLO."
>>35597150>"The only thing I want to hear is a detailed plan for you and your boys joining polite society and looking for real jobs."If he gets backed into a corner, fine. This is how we should negotiate:http://youtu.be/NPRlHwwVIug
>>35597397>"The only thing I want to hear is a detailed plan for you and your boys joining polite society and looking for real jobs."They need to wise up. They are small shit here. If they set up in the same area of the Jeffersonians they would be almost all dead in a generation.The neo-tokyo population will likely turn on them when they lose the fear of themWhat else they gonna do? Try to intimidate Kzin's?The reality is they need to either intergrate, get normal jobs or they will be following the pirates.In less then 3 years the families would either be legit or dead.
>>35597429We have a video of the slaver fight do we not? we could show it to them.Heck, I am tempted to outright kill the leader before any negotiations and then scare his posse straight.OR, we can kill this entire gang to scare the rest of them straight
>>35597304I'm correcting a couple of errors where the ">" are where you forgot to make another line, but so far I think it's a good format. Keep it up!
>>35597500Which errors? For the most part, I copypasted what the QM said verbatim, though I did mention a plasma cannon we didn't have and I removed that bit.
>>35596363>too many cases of mistaken identity may result in a wedge being driven between your two disparate populationsSomething that can work here is to get some nihons that are on the level integrated with the jeffersonian militias and help them distinguish who is who
>>35597562For some reason it had everything on the Government and Staff in a single paragraph, instead of individual lines.
>>35597583Oohh. My bad. Any idea how to make tables, or sub-indexes? And collapsible tables.By sub-indexes (I dont think thats the right term) I mean like how 'Ships' fall under 'Basic Information' in this:http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Planetary_Governor_Quest >>35597150Just in case you miss it:What does "Legal System: Randomly selected Juries" mean anyway? Don't most countries already do that? I mean, I thought it was standard to have randomly selected juries. And then defendants can choose between being judged by their peers (jury trial) or by a judge (bench trial).
>>35597693No idea, never done any wiki'ing myself. I can't figure out why it did that, it should have been>a line like this>and thisinstead of >this >and this.
>>35597203>>35597205>>35597263He stares at you in shock, opening his mouth to speak and shutting it again as soon as you raise your hand for silence."Now, son. Let me tell you something. You boys are from a shithole of a planet where you could do pretty much anything you liked so long as you didn't run up against Power. Two differences here: One, there are no sheep on Tempest. Half these people have been under the boot of you and yours long enough that the fear and hate have become a part of them, but I know ell enough that when you put a gun in a mans hand and teach him how to use it, the fear grows small. It never goes away entirely, but it shrinks enough that it doesn't get in the way of trigger fingers. They don't have much experience with killing, but they can shoot straight and there are a LOT more of them.""The other half was never afraid in the first place, save the fear that every man feels going into a gunfight. A lot of them do very much know about killin', whether it's game animals or enemy soldiers. They're ready to go to war to protect them and theirs, and they're far, far better shots than you. These folk? There are also more of them than there are you.">CONT
>>35597738Alright. So far I replaced the arrows with actual bullets.
>>35597763Suggestion.Particularly when you use multiple dialog choices, can you write out the actual dialog we used at the beginning of the post?
>>35597835Keep track of assets like trade goods, owned items, credits, and income?
>>35597963>>35597835I think we've got 25 currency now?
>>35598008I thought we only had 1 after the purchases.
>>35597763You walk over to his table, knocking a bottle of halfway decent wine to the floor with a sideways sweep of your hand. No one objects."The second thing you gotta know: That power you don't run across? I fucking AM that Power. I could probably take your shitty little gang myself, with just the guns under my coat that your door man wouldn't be able to find even if he had a chance to try, but I don't do that. I got people to do that for me. The only thing that demands my personal attention is the elimination of the genocidal alien horde that infests this planet, which I will carry out by plugging my brain into a tank the size of a small Corporate Pyramid."I came here because I thought I could talk to someone in Gang leadership and knock some sense into them, so the killing could be kept under control. You do realize you guys are ALL Neo-Tokyo? And that most of the guys shooting are American-Ethnic Core Worlders? This has every potential to turn into a racial divide that will tear this world apart in blood and fire. You're not Gang Leadership. You're a fucking guy with some rainbow-flavored homeboys following him around. You don't even register on my fucking radar, and this entire visit is a waste of time unless you and your boys go find somethung to do with your lives that isn't this.""I am a busy man, son. I. Hate. Wasting. Time.">CONT
Ok. I figured out sub-indexes.How should I organize it? Would this work?Basic Info>Planetary Info>Planetary Govt>>Staff>>Political Perks (That a good name for these?)Colony>Education>Colonist Skills>Colony Assets>Colony DemographicsSpace>Space Elevator>Orbital AssetsMilitary>Ground Forces>Space Forces>BOLO>Small ArmsOther>>35597963I have owned items. But not income or the amount of credits we have. I think we have 1C, but I have no idea about income. I could put it under a new 'Economy' category, or make 'Economy' a sub-category of Basic Info, maybe?
>>35598036Yeah, just checked. You're right. Forgot the BOLO weaponry, and then thought we had started with 87 instead of 83.
>>35598052Oh shit. That was one awesome post
We should create and organize a police force. Our military is well train for almost all military matters but its unsuited for peace keeping and policing civilian disputes and disorder. This is a frontier world and it needs a frontier police like the early Texas Rangers. Men of moral fiber and deep sense of duty with with the respect of their communities. Even a government as hands-off as ours needs a police force. We can call them Tempest Rangers!
>>35598089Economy and Economic Resources subsection. We currently have 1C. Our income was given in the last thread, I'll look it up on Suptg.
>>35598052He stares at you, probably with something like "This isn't how it was supposed to go!" repeating in his mind. Thankfully, one of his men provides a demonstration.You can't even understand what he's saying, the Slang-deformed Nihon going right over your head, but he says it in an angry tone and waves his piece at you, resulting in a dozen Laser Rifles leveling at his head, cool professionalism aided by the speed of electric-powered steel muscles. By the time they get a sight picture, however, his gun arm is already gone below the elbow, and Spider is on the other side of the room from his previous position, lounging casually among several petrified Yakuza. Shit, even with that minor distraction you didn't even see him move.You point at Spider. "Think of all the scary Bosses you've ever heard of. Now think of their Troubleshooters, the dangerous men who hang at the right hand of the best. This is mine. He doesn't drink, doesn't whore, takes no drugs, and doesn't need to be kept an eye on so he doesn't start murdering hookers to get his jollies off. He kills. He kills more efficiently and with greater enthusiasm than any man I have ever met, and unless Neo-Tokyo is a lot harder than I heard, more than any man you've ever met either. This is the level you are dealing with. Get out of your head the idea that you are even in the game, because you never really were.""Now, be a helpful Citizen and give me the contact information of every Ganger you know. I have a message for them, and the more I have delivered to names, the more are likely to listen.">Roll 1d100
>>35598133Jeffersonians and some of the more radical Neo-Tokyo political dissidents will be a problem with that.
>>35598052Yup, I think we put the fear in him after that.
Rolled 37 (1d100)>>35598213Is this roll to see how many we dissuade out of this line of business?Or just for him?
Rolled 3 (1d100)>>35598213Come on, dice. Work with us.
Rolled 8 (1d100)>>35598213I love it when morons realize what kind of trouble they're in.
Rolled 7 (1d100)>>35598213Let us see,
>>35598253Kinda like that unfortunately.Mea culpa.
>>35598253>>35598251>>35598250Nope. Dice don't give a fuck about you.
>>35598222We could just go with elected Sheriffs, and have the Rangers be roving troubleshooters that help out with investigations and manhunts. Like the actual Texas Rangers.
>>35598250>>35598251>>35598253Fuck. I think he fainted. Atleast, that'd be a lot better than him suddenly growing a pair and clamming up.
>>35598133I am actually for it. And/or sheriffs tooAside from that, we should strive to get every man and woman over 15 armed with a side arm. And liase with jeffersonian leaders about starting to integrate Nihons (do they prefer nihons? neo tokyo refugees? what?) into their militias as well. This could be a great team building exercise as the two communities work together to cow or get rid of the would be gangsters.
Rolled 91 (1d100)>>35598213need a better roll
Rolled 55 (1d100)>>35598202from last thread:+3 from Mining+6 from Fuel and Asteroid Sales+1 If we buy the Hub+1 for Machine ShopEvery 3 months+2 for TU Bonus in 'several' years+2 for Tech U if we crack the Settler's Kits
>>35598253>I love it when morons realize what kind of trouble they're in.Sort of like how we're the morons in trouble now?
>>35598250>>35598251>>35598253>>35598277Statistically speaking this is why Quests here are such hit and miss.The Dice actively fuck us over due to how they are done. No true random distribution here.
Rolled 19 (1d100)>>35598133Well, half of our Army are actually 'Enforcers'.I was thinking we'd organize it like this:>Tempest Military Police: Deals with interstate crime. Polices any land outside of states and military bases, along with space stations and spaceports.Half of our Enforcers would go under that.Then we'd put the other 5,000 into local police. Say, 2500 for county/district level enforcement so they can handle community relations better. 1500 for province level stuff. Then 1000 for state level stuff. We could have the local level enforcers use unorganized militia gear, saving us some combat armor & tribarrel rifles for ourselves. Up to 2k, after setting up state militias. This would let us have law enforcement at every civic level, which would be ideal IMO. >>35598222I think you're really overestimating all of this. These are not anarchists. >>35598213
>>35598250>>35598251>>35598253>>35598277Jesus Christ those roles
>>35598133I support this fully. We need to train the rangers in Asymmetric Warfare.
>>35598295>Aside from that, we should strive to get every man and woman over 15 armed with a side arm.Every able-bodied colonist is already armed with an assault rifle, and because of our almost non-existent gun laws, every single Neo-Jeffersonian already carries a gun with them.
>>35598277>>35598253>>35598251>>35598250Why do you roll when you see someone rolling shit? Again, if someone rolls low, that means the Dice Seed is currently set to low rolls. Wait a few minutes.
>>35598320Dice gods wanted to let the bodies hit the floor.
>>35598250>>35598251>>35598253You know, the probable result of this is that we failed to persuade them, meaning they attack, meaning they all die, meaning nothing of value was lost.... oh wait>Double crit failureWe get shot in the head and die, end of quest.
>>35598250>>35598251>>35598253Unfortunately, "Jackel" doesn't know that many people. He thinks he has an affiliated drug dealer or two he can talk into cutting ties with the local Yakuza, but aside from that you pretty much only pulled this room full of kids out of the coming storm.Fuck.>Announce amnesty for 72 hours>Have Soldiers in full combat gear go patrolling down streets with the new Combat Walkers as a show of force>Other
>>35598340Because it hadn't updated and I was working on getting it in quick, just like everyone else.
>>35598340If they're like me >>35598251 then they rolled as soon as Gameroom asked for a roll. They didn't notice the other rolls until the thread refreshed and their post was shown.
>>35598337>Every able-bodied colonist is already armed with an assault rifleI thought they were just legally allowed to carry. but that there aren't enough guns to go around... wait, if that is the case, how come these guys are brandishing knives instead of assault rifles?
>>35598340Look at the time stamps of those first three, you fucking shit. They were within 2 seconds of each other, meaning that when they pressed the refresh button, no one else had rolled yet.
>>35598359Both. There's no planet-wide com system we can use for announcements?
>>35598359>Announce amnesty for 72 hours
>>35598314Heres the govt idea I posted 2 threads ago:People = Citizens btw, not tourists or w/e.1. Tempest Senate: Advisory council of the Governor, with 2 representatives per State. This will help us keep a pulse on the sociopolitical climate on lower levels of govt.2. States/Provinces/Counties: Standard fare. States get semi-autonomy, managing internal affairs within their own borders. States must maintain a State Militia. Some very basic regulation such as acknowledging Commonwealth human rights laws. Territories become States after it has 50,000 people and hold a referendum. After it passes, the Senate & Planetary Governor can then ratify it. Storms Eye will be it's one state. Provinces & Counties are standard subdivisions that fall under State authority. The supremacy clause is applied to States.3. Territories: Created when a District reaches 5000 people. Territories can elect their own legislature and elect a Territorial Governor. Governors can speak to the Senate on any issues concerning their territory.4. District: Created out of frontier-land. When an area has a minimum population of 500 and an average population density of 1 person per square mile, a District is created. They can elect their own governor and 3 judges. Districts expand naturally until they reach a popualtion of 5000, in which case they become a territory.(CONT)
>>35598340>Why do you roll when you see someone rolling shit? Again, if someone rolls low, that means the Dice Seed is currently set to low rolls. Wait a few minutes.The 3 votes that actually counted occurred in under 1 second total
>>35598359>Announce amnesty for 72 hours>Have Soldiers in full combat gear go patrolling down streets with the new Combat Walkers as a show of force>OtherAlso do some nice PSA's about peoples rights to bare arms to protect themselves. An armed populace is a polite populace.
>>35598222>Jeffersonians and some of the more radical Neo-Tokyo political dissidents will be a problem with that.Ever society needs a police force. Else you got mob justice and anyone with a gun is judge and executioner. Just because they are Jeffersonians it doesn't mean they reject any representation of government they are not anarchists.
>>35598405Commando: For districts and territories, though States can maintain if they desire. A volunteer part-time organization based on the old afrikaner commandos. Commando cells get to elect a Commandant to lead them. They're expected to use their militia equipment/any private equipment and have a means of transportation. Fall under the authority of any local police, when created. They're responsible for the safety & security of the community. They can help new protect settlements against Rachnids. Eventually, we may get some proper skirmishers & counter-terrorists out of them as they develop.Unorganized Militia: Every adult between the age of 17 to 45. They're expected to maintain and securely store their assigned armor, arms and ammunition. The property is considered to be owned by the Tempest Govt until it's bought by a retiring member.Arms & Offloading It: Any Tempest Soldier, State Militiaman, Enforcer or Militiaman will have the option of buying back their assigned weapon & armor. This will let the govt make a small profit and help boost our planets' defense industry. In the future, we can also give any obsolete milsurp equipment to the State Militia or auction it off.
>>35598376Well, from a psychological aspect there's something primal about a knife. The first ape to kill another ape with something besides shit it just picked up probably used a knife. Knives invoke an inner, instinctive fear that guns just can't. Of course, that's the smart answer. The Yaks ain't smart. They're probably doing it because 'it's cooler', or some shit. >>35598359>Announce amnesty for 72 hours>Have Soldiers in full combat gear go patrolling down streets with new Combat Walkers as a show of forceWhy not both, the little Mexican girl asked.
>>35598359>Announce amnesty for 72 hours>OtherCoordinate with Jeffersonian leaders and Neo-Tokyo leaders that we will have our soldiers prepare and openly getting ready in the 72 hour leadup to this purge. Make sure that they understand that this is not meant to be directed at their populations, just that we need our soldiers in place, and we would very much like the cooperation of the citizens to stay indoors.
>>35598359>Announce amnesty for 72 hours>Have Soldiers in full combat gear go patrolling down streets with the new Combat Walkers as a show of force
>>35598424I support this. Add it on to my vote here >>35598447
>>35598359>Announce amnesty for 72 hours, warn any members after that will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Emphasized they"ll be judged by their peers>Have Soldiers in full combat gear go patrolling down streets with the new Combat Walkers as a show of force
>>35598376>I thought they were just legally allowed to carry. but that there aren't enough guns to go aroundNope. We bought the Militia Package, which means that every single able-bodied adult colonist was given an assault rifle and security armor.
>>35598359>Announce amnesty for 72 hours>Other1. public service announcement. go on the air. give the speech in nihon. with english subtitles2. Include in the announcement a phone number to call if in need of police services. Ask people to report would be gansters and give them a bit of intimidation as well3. Get jeffersonians to hold rallies about their virtues for the nihon settlers. End the rallies with handing out of sidearms, shooting range, and BBQ4. Upload to infonet the video of what you did to the slavers
>>35598314>>35598405>>35598434This looks good if we implement it. I think the lack of lower level government and law enforcement in general is a real issue right now. Frankly, we shouldn't be dealing with this kind of stuff. Mayors, municipal/state level governors & local law enforcement should. But those don't exist, and our only official law enforcement group is just 10,000 soldiers who can double as 'Enforcers'.
>>35598545>3. Get jeffersonians to hold rallies about their virtues for the nihon settlers. End the rallies with handing out of sidearms, shooting range, and BBQOh, and ALSO the formation of cross cultural militias
>>35598359>Announce amnesty for 72 hoursI only see one guy opposing the creation of a formal police force separated from the regular army. We should announce their creation and start looking for volunteers and model them after the rangers.
>>35598376It's been mentioned last thread that the Yakuza DO use their issued weapons/armor, but they get curb stomped by the Jeffersonians since they've been shooting their whole life and have other guns they brought with them.
>>35598545>BBQSmoked Meats Every Day
>>35598434The Commando bit is the only thing i have issues with, everything else is just grand.
>>3559859210,000 of our Civil Guard are actually Enforcers. OP mentioned that early on. The thing is that they aren't organized as their own actual organization. I'm cool with the Rangers idea, but I think we should also have local-level law enforcement. Local LEO is more effective when it comes to Community Policing.
Tensions are running high in the newly constructed Dome cities of Tempest. Your soldiers patrol the streets, and have shot down several groups of Yakuza with more bravado than brains. There has been violence elsewhere, as an organized Yakuza attack on the makeshift Walton Family compound was driven, leaving half their men and crude wheeled transports on the ground in exchange for only two of Dales supporters, and more and more random shootings erupt between Yakuza and citizens, both Jeffersonian and an increasing amount of Neo-Tokyo respond to Gang harassment with gunfire. Everywhere there are interpreters to be had, Militias from both sides link up for mutual defense against Yakuza drive-by reprisals.Slowly, in ones and twos, the Yakuza begin showing up at your government offices, accepting terms of amnesty and handing over any hard drugs they have on their person. You just hope that this is the modest beginning.>Roll 1d100 +10
Rolled 18 + 10 (1d100 + 10)>>35598655http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Commando_SystemI was pretty much thinking of this when I thought of the Commandos. Though I guess Tempest Rangers could cover it instead.>>35598684
>>35598694Going to wait for a bit.
Rolled 68 + 10 (1d100 + 10)>>35598684
Rolled 99 + 10 (1d100 + 10)>>35598684
Rolled 1 + 10 (1d100 + 10)>>35598684
Rolled 80 (1d100)>>35598684dice hates us
Rolled 54 + 10 (1d100 + 10)Well, hopefully this works. I'm surprised we didn't put troops at the Waltons - oversight on our parts.
>>35598720I could fucking kiss you!
>>35598720>>35598712God bless you both.
>>35598720I love you.
>>35598694fail>>35598712success>>35598720crit successIT WORKS!
>>35598662No. Most colonies start with military-police Civil Guard who essentially act as enforcers and double as PDF, armed with the same equipment your militia has now, with the Mercenaries acting as the 'real' military. You bought upgrades that turned your Civil Guard into a real army with real Milspec weapons and armor, but you have no civil police force. The Army are filling the gap at the moment, but you think you'll need to create a replacement sooner or later.
>>35598730They can take care of themselves and remember they said they liked us because we left them alone to their own business and don't really bother them too much.
>>35598763Yeah, that should become a priority. There's a few places where the military and the police are the same place, and I think it's all Serbia.
>>35598763Oh, ok. What about the Juries thing? It just means that Juries decide whether someone is guilty, right?But yeah. I think we should use this:>>35598405>>35598434But instead of Commandos, we"ll just have Texas Rangers and local law enforcement. All of which we can raise from our actual Tempest Army. At least the Rangers part, since they"ll have to deal with heavier stuff. Not so much local law enforcement. Local police IMO should just use their issued security armor & guard rifles for now. We should save the milspec gear for our actual military.
>>35598133really, when the entire population's armed and trained in combat, you don't need a police force to keep the peace. You just need them to figure out whodunnit. I'm thinking, cool as rangers are, we need something more like a detective force. Or street judges.
>>35598831Well, Italy has a military police that also acts as the federal police. And the US federal govt. has plenty of law enforcement departments that use military gear. So it wouldn't be police-statey that people could object. Especially when the most readily available gear is the Guard assault rifle & Security Armor.
>>35598877Italy is kind of a corrupt shithole, and the US's law enforcement agencies are still not military. There is a difference if it's a civilian law enforcement agency, even if they use much of the same gear.I am of the opinion that they're going too far here though.
>>35598314Can we call them 'street judges' and have them be elected? If so I'm in favour.
>>35598763When is the projected completion of the initial domes?Do we even have enough of a workforce surplus that we can afford to raise a civilian police force from the citizenry and regular workforce?We still need to get the mine shafts operational, and the orbital elevator built.And the soldiers LIKE being soldiers; telling them they have to quit and become civilian LEO would be a major hit to their morale.
>>35598866No offense, but that's a terrible idea. Police, the courts and penitentiaries are all vital to modern civilization, whether people can own guns or not. The Swiss have a militia system where every able-bodied man of age has an assault rifle in his house (that they can then open carry), and they still have a Justice institution.>>35598931I don't think an entire planetary govt having no gun control laws is an issue. The issue is that there's no lower level govt and law enforcement to deal with that kind of stuff. What about the French, though? They have a military police that deals with the civilian population too. It's actually not that abnormal for a first world country.
What we need to do is form the lowest level of local government and let them organize based on that, local police who know the people, and local judges and juries the same.
>>35598405still voting for full anarchy. a minimal government is a cheap government.
>>35598434>>35598405This is basically USA.I have various issues with it.To start with, it doesn't handle the fact we have 3 different races living together. And the fact that some people want to live by their own rules.For another, there is way too much bureaucracy with layers upon layers of petty pencil pushers.Also, it doesn't take into account that we are limited to domes for the first few decades. your plan is mostly for sprawl after the atmosphere is terraformedMy counter propsal:1. I am honestly in favor of direct democracy for law making, where a law needs to have a 90% in favor to pass. If its something 90% can't agree that should be law, then it isn't one2. We draft up initial basic laws and PERSON (not human) rights ourselves (by plagiarizing)3. Policework is done primarily by rangers/marshals, which can be split off into individual districts but are all directly supplied by the state4. Basic infrastructure can be provided by whomever wants to. We use our own personal business to build it all over the place wherever it is needed (and charge reasonable rates for it)
>>35598987Good point on the French, but they're kinda corrupt too.
>>35599068>And the fact that some people want to live by their own rules.i misphrased that, i meant some subcultures or communities. Like, for example, kzin, cthal, and humans. not to mention sub group of humans
>>35598694>>35598712>>35598720>SUCCESSI the end, almost all of them come over. On the recommendation of one former Corporate Law Enforcement officer, you specified that Gangers would be able to keep their weapons and remain armed throughout the entire process, to dispel shadows of past Neo-Tokyo Police Actions where offers of amnesty were covers for planned massacres of disarmed gangers, in blocks of ten.One by one, youth in torn synth-leather jackets turn in Gang insignia and containers of hard drugs, stepping forward uncertainly into new lives.The only ones you have to deal with in the end are the sociopaths rejected by your screening process and the die-hards who refuse to give up their Gang colors. Screaming madmen and bullies too addicted to their power and control to give it up for anything, even their own lives, make desperate and foolish stands against your troops.With support from Militia snipers, mostly ex-military Jeffersonians, your men eliminate them efficiently, with very few left alive to be taken prisoner. Stolen construction materials make for poor barricades, and many forget the tactics they learned in basic, falling back on old habits in their final dust-up.Most of the survivors are hanged, found guilty of horrific crimes after interrogation under standard-issue lie detectors, while some are simply sentenced to year-long stays in your minimalistic prisons.All in all, a highly satisfying conclusion. You think you're going to do alright for yourself as a Border Baron.>Spires former slaves have been woken successfully>The Combat Androids have been awoken>A number of immigrants who hitched a ride on the Free Trader ships are being processed>Dales Walton and the other New Sons of Liberty are requesting a meeting with you and elected representatives of the Neo-Tokyo Colonists to discuss the future of the Colony and local government>The Rach Tower on this continent has been seized, and is now being fortified for your own use>Action
>>35599068Democracy isn't an option until we clear our debts. Effective dictatorship with devolved powers is what we're stuck with until otherwise.
>>35598986>And the soldiers LIKE being soldiers; telling them they have to quit and become civilian LEO would be a major hit to their morale.I don't think it would at all. It would also give promotion opportunities if we raise a police force from the military.>>35599013Fuck no. I think our planetary govt should be federalist, but that still means having a government at every level. If some Neo-Tokyo socialists form their own state, we shouldn't care so long as they don't violate major human rights laws or act defiant of the Planetary Govt. All we need to do is handle planetary and interstellar affairs, minimum. Lower level governments can spend time dealing with drugs while we worry about invading xenos or slaver fleets.>>35599068>To start with, it doesn't handle the fact we have 3 different races living together. And the fact that some people want to live by their own rules.Thats what semi-autonomy is for, which they can get at state level govts.>For another, there is way too much bureaucracy with layers upon layers of petty pencil pushers.Point to me to a functioning country that doesn't have multiple levels of civic government. You won't find one. It's not too much bureaucracy. It's what's essential.>1. I am honestly in favor of direct democracy for law making, where a law needs to have a 90% in favor to pass. If its something 90% can't agree that should be law, then it isn't oneNothing will get done, and we're still the Planetary Governor. 2. We draft up initial basic laws and PERSON (not human) rights ourselves (by plagiarizing)what3. Policework is done primarily by rangers/marshals, which can be split off into individual districts but are all directly supplied by the state4. Basic infrastructure can be provided by whomever wants to. We use our own personal business to build it all over the place wherever it is needed (and charge reasonable rates for it)Dont see how that contradicts what I said, but ok?
>>35599131Since everyone here is talking civics, let meet with the Waltons and everyone else, although I'm curious as to Spire's slaves.
>>35599131>Dales Walton and the other New Sons of Liberty are requesting a meeting with you and elected representatives of the Neo-Tokyo Colonists to discuss the future of the Colony and local governmentWe have a lot of work to get to, and it'd be better if they took care of problems before we have to.
>>35599131>>Dales Walton and the other New Sons of Liberty are requesting a meeting with you and elected representatives of the Neo-Tokyo Colonists to discuss the future of the Colony and local governmentDeal with that first. We need to get our govt set up
>>35599131Let's talk with the Combat Androids. They're probably either confused or awaiting orders, and they're going to need help.
>>35599131>Combat Androids have been awokenSeems like most pressing, for now. We don't need them flipping out over something and rampaging. After that we need to talk to the various leaders about FUTURE. I am sure the former slaves could use some rest and recooperation, and the immigrants and tower will click on without us.
>>35599219Oh, if it's not clear, I vote for>Combat Androids>Dale Walton/NSoL/Neo-Tokyo Reps>Former Slaves>Immigrants>TowerIn that order.
>>35599131>Dales Walton and the other New Sons of Liberty are requesting a meeting with you and elected representatives of the Neo-Tokyo Colonists to discuss the future of the Colony and local government
>>35599152>Thats what semi-autonomy is for, which they can get at state level govts.Except there are barely enough Kzin to qualify for a District, and definitely not enough Cthall. And for decades people are going to have to stay in the domes simply because the air is full of toxins from the Algae.
>>35599147>Democracy isn't an option until we clear our debts. Effective dictatorship with devolved powers is what we're stuck with until otherwise.I am aware, we are talking long term here.>>35599152>Thats what semi-autonomy is forexcept it isn't>Nothing will get doneFalse, things will get done. But only things that HAVE to be done. We can tweak the numbers down from 90%but just so you know, the USA is a ripoff of the iroquis confederacy and they required a 100% consensus before something became law
>>35599131>The Combat Androids have been awokenDeal with the Combat Bio-Androids to make sure that they don't activate failsafe protocols.Bring James, Georg, and Spider to help, since they likely know the most about these kinds of bio-androids.
>>35599242Sounds ok. Second.
>>35599147we can have elected representatives, as long as they answer to us.I am sure we can have a polls of "are you in favor of proposition 12A, yes/no" and then we make our own dictatorial decision based on the percentage for it
>>35599131Am I misreading it or is>Dales Walton and the other New Sons of Liberty are requesting a meeting with you and elected representatives of the Neo-Tokyo Colonists to discuss the future of the Colony and local governmentthe only "interactive" option and the other 4 are merely status report of "X happened"
>>35599242This looks good.Maybe we should considering putting the androids under our super soldier with our direct supervision? Aka the beginning of our black ops considering how illegal they are sadly.
>>35599242seconded as well
>>35599316I'm reminded of the anecdote of a US Navy captain who was shitcanned after taking a poll of his crew.My concern is that there's no Tempestrian (we need an adjective) mindset or culture yet, and we don't know how long-term the Jeffersonians, Neo-Tokykians, and Kzin are gonig to interact with each other. I wasn't part of earlier threads but I would have fought hard for keeping as much dictator power as possible, and slowly releasing it over time.
>>35598987I agree with courts and penitentiaries (or at least a penal system) but can you explain why police are necessary, beyond that all twenty first century nations have them? We're already training all our citizens how to operate in a theatre of war. Why not train everyone in basic peacekeeping while we're at it? there's so much overlap it wouldn't take much. Then we don't need a dedicated police force, we just need to make it socially unacceptable to be a bystander. And a few trained detectives to track down the occasional serial killer, assuming those still exist.
>>35599349>illegal they are sadlythey are perfectly legal as long as they stay on planet. and they have free will, if they want to live their own lives we shouldn't force them to join our 'black ops'
>>35599068YES! seconding the too much beaurocracy complaint. Fuck beaurocracy with a weaponized mining drill.
>>35599255We agreed to give Cthall their own sovereignty a while ago, remember? They're not a concern.The kzin already agreed in advance to become part of our society anyway, and we have Ras part of our staff.>>35599263>except it isn't"No it's not" isn't a refutation. Semi-autonomy means they get to be like Hong Kong or a U.S state in the early years. They get to manage their own affairs, but we control things outside of their realm.>but just so you know, the USA is a ripoff of the iroquis confederacy and they required a 100% consensus before something became lawWho cares? I don't know why you implied I plagiarized anything when it was all based off western systems of govt in general. Nothing would ever get done at 90%. It's why no democracies require a 90% 'yes' vote on anything ever.>>35599391Because the police exist as an organized force to enforce the laws of the state and protect society, not necessarily individuals. They exist for that sole reason fundamentally, not to go to someones house as a break-in is happening. That was simply an evolution of law enforcement over the centuries. Police can also be held to higher scrutiny over breaking police procedure when it isn't necessarily against the law too.
>>35599147legal democracy isn't, no. But nothing's preventing us from just polling the people and doing what they want. It worked for Clinton.
>>35599068>This is basically USA.i have to agree, anything but the US system.we should look into alternative vote or mixed member proportional representation
>>35599392I meant elsewhere as for that i was just figuring Spider would understand their situation best and may want to consider having them work together is what I meant.>>35599391If we teach peace keeping to everyone it makes it that much easier for a criminal to get past them because they too will receive the training that much more easily.
>>35599152>Fuck no. I think our planetary govt should be federalist, but that still means having a government at every level. If some Neo-Tokyo socialists form their own state, we shouldn't care so long as they don't violate major human rights laws or act defiant of the Planetary Govt. All we need to do is handle planetary and interstellar affairs, minimum. Lower level governments can spend time dealing with drugs while we worry about invading xenos or slaver fleets.This, full on anarchy is retarded. Fucking retarded on ever considerable level. A federal system with minimal impact on the local and communal level could work perfect for us and even the majority of our population.
>>35599391Dear gods above, you want to legalize vigilante mob justice.
>>35599430>"No it's not" isn't a refutation.Except when it isif you are sitting there saying "A=B" or "2+2=5" the only response i can give you is "no it isn't".You are just throwing out a phrase "semi-autonomy" to describe an entire block of suggestions, numbered, that together amount to "not semi-autonomy". You are contradicting yourself. Just saying "it will be semi autonomous" doesn't magically make it so.
>Combat Androids>Had to go AFk briefly. Writing.
>>35599436thats kind of what we want to do. We respond to the needs of these people and we give them fair representation. But ultimately its our decisions that matter around here.
>>35599068I'm voting for 1 and 2 over beaurocracy, this is a grand experiment after all. With a view to mistakes made in the american experiment. Though I think 'not voting' would have to count as 'in favour' of a proposed law.As for 3, I'm still in favour of having very thorough neighborhood watches and police being responsible for fact-finding, but I can see I'm outvoted there.4. Fuck yeah. If someone makes infrastructure better than us, I'd rather they do so.
>>35599436You want to give up our power as planetary governor? Really/ Noone is saying we can't have democracyt at the lower levels.>>35599068>This is basically USA, therefore it's badWrong on both counts. It's a federation-style govt. >To start with, it doesn't handle the fact we have 3 different races living together. And the fact that some people want to live by their own rules.Cthall aren't part of our government. Kzin are too small of a minority to actually matter in a democracy anyway unless you want to put them on reservations.>Also, it doesn't take into account that we are limited to domes for the first few decades. your plan is mostly for sprawl after the atmosphere is terraformedI don't see where this is seen at all.>For another, there is way too much bureaucracy with layers upon layers of petty pencil pushers.So what do you want? A world government that gets to manage society at the smallest level, or full anarchy? Because those are the only real alternatives to a multi-layered government, which has existed since the dawn of civilization.>1. I am honestly in favor of direct democracy for law making, where a law needs to have a 90% in favor to pass. If its something 90% can't agree that should be law, then it isn't oneFuck that. We're the Planetary Governor. We rule as a dictator with an advisory council. We're just letting democracy exist at lower levels since the Jeffersonians want their own semi-autonomy and representation.>>35599490You're just saying "nuh uh". >Semi-Autonomy:>2. Having the powers of self-government within a larger organization or structure.Them being able to govern themselves without us intruding at a lower level of government is exactly what semi-autonomy is.
Ok, suggestion>If there isn't a law against it, it is not illegal>The law is a SMALL booklet titled "The Law" or "Tempest Law" with minimal laws necessary for functioning society. Form a thinktank to craft specifics. personally ratified by us. We hold the authority to change it as needed.>Major communities may appoint advisers / representatives to us. done in whatever manner THEY deem appropriate (ex, the kzin and the cthall choose their leader in some arcane way that is certainly not a popular vote)>Government provides police and military>People are free to form their own militias>We the governor, personally not as the government, provide infrastructure and education to those who want it (at minimal prices). People are free to form their own to compete with us.>When corporate debt is all paid up and it is legal for us to do so, we relinquish our dictatorship for direct democracy, where it requires a large majority (70, 80 or even 90%) to pass a law. and again, if there isn't a law for it its not illegal. Laws are up for a vote once per X years. the Y law proposals with the most petitions behind them are the ones put to a vote.
>>35599587>This is basically USA, therefore it's badStrawmanI only said>This is basically USAI then proceeded to explain WHY it is bad, in particular with the specific of applying to our situation. The USA doesn't have cthall, kzin, biodroids, AI, uplifted animals, cyborgs, super soldiers, etc
>>35599068You do realize that a Direct Democracy only lasts until a majority of people realize they can vote themselves to have the property of the minority?
>>35599649>>People are free to form their own militias>>We the governor, personally not as the government, provide infrastructure and education to those who want it (at minimal prices). People are free to form their own to compete with us.>70-90% to pass lawsThis is... um. Certainly idealistic! But won't work in practice.
>>35599683Nah, we've just got hundreds of historical enemies living mostly in peace when their own home countries can't do that.
>>35599587>Kzin are too small of a minority to actually matter in a democracy anyway unless you want to put them on reservations.that is the point>USA voted democratically for president and congress who perform trail of tears>Germany voted democratically for hitler>Anything slavery>Gaza democratically voted for hamas>countless other examplesWow, its almost like a representative democracy can completely screw up minorities
>>35599713>But won't work in practice.explain whywhat specifically will go wrong.
>>35599152>It doesn't handle the fact we have 3 different races living togetherAnd your solution is to encourage them to live separately? No good will come of that. Trust me on this, I'm Canadian.>Bureaucracy is essential.I'm also a former bureaucrat, and I can tell you most of it isn't. It might have been in the twentieth century when getting everyone's opinion on anything was a very difficult undertaking. Nowadays you could do it with an app and a bit less secrecy.
>>35599649Almost perfect, but I don't think we need to dig in any further or we will be crafting an actual constitution.
>>35599649>where it requires a large majority (70, 80 or even 90%) to pass a lawCan you give an example of functioning countries with 80-90% of the people are required to approve a law before it gets passed?>>35599683What? That's not a strawman at all. You (wrongly) said it was the USA style govt, and then explained why you think that's (a USA style government) is bad. It was exactly what you were sayingWhat was written was based on american (since they were a country that had to form new govts over time), european & swiss style government organization, and based in reality. Just because it's a scifi setting doesn't mean the fundamentals of how a government can work is thrown out of the window. You also ignored everything else I said.
>>35599382I kind of agree... though really, a dictator's popularity is inversely proportional to how much he micromanages. I don't have a reference for that, but I believe it.I'd be for NEVER giving up full dictatorial powers, but only using them if it's a major emergency.
>>35599756>but I don't think we need to dig in any further or we will be crafting an actual constitution.Yea, the idea is to avoid actually going into too specificwe would be drafint a book called "The law" based on suggestions given by our various cultural leadership. it will be minimalistic, but it won't be a single page.
Located in your personal storehouse-It never ceases to amaze you how many personal *buildings* come with this job-Is a nondescript metal cube still painted on one side to resemble the side of a distant commerce hub. Come to think of it, you should have remembered to auction this thing. You don't have any pressing need for it, given that you can pretty much make anything you like legal, and it's worth a good chunk of change. Maybe you can sell or barter it to one of the Traders still in orbit?At any rate, as you walk across the gray metal floor, you are led inside by a trooper you recognize as being considered for transfer to your "discrete protection detail", otherwise known as Corporals Cart and Marshall. Within wait seven hulking Heavy Combat Androids, lacking in all subtlety or ability to pass for being baseline human. They focus on you instantly."Are you the Master?" Asks the closest, the number '1' tattooed on his neck.>"You don't have a Master anymore. You're free.">"Depends on how you define 'Master'.">Other
>>35599487bit late if you're against that, we already have randomly selected juries.
I think full on anarchy guy is clearly out voted, can we move on to more pressing issues.
>>355997491) People are free to form their own militias can easily become havens for racists, classists, gangs, etc. Have an Official Militia they can join, sure, but they're already all fairly well armed.2) Because poorer areas ill-serviced by infrastructure will be unable to afford it, and get screwed over - and get stuck staying poor. Same reason why Urban City taxes pay for water and power to rural areas in the US.3) 70-90% is a nonstarter to get anything done. 67% is too much, IMO, for most business. For things like Constitutional Amendments in the US, maybe, but for basic laws, budgets, etc, 50% of votes + 1 vote is enough.
>>35599820This is going to have to be handled really, really carefully.Let's start by trying to figure out if they understand the concept of freedom. We'll probably have to do our best to rehabilitate them.
>>35599820>"You don't have a Master anymore. You're free."I am however the governor of this planet
>>35599820>"Depends on how you define 'Master'."
>>35599464So we keep secrets from our population? Because the only way to ensure they obey the laws 90% of them voted for is because they don't know how to break them without getting caught?Seriously, is that a fair summary of your belief?
>>35599131>Dales Walton and the other New Sons of Liberty are requesting a meeting with you and elected representatives of the Neo-Tokyo Colonists to discuss the future of the Colony and local governmentI think we should discuss with them the formation of a civilian police force, founded together, to help keep order and investigate crimes, and work to bring the communities together.
>>35599829Randomly selected juries is different from effectively making every citizen a cop with full LEO powers to arrest. I've got no problem with Randomyl Selected Juries, it's what we have now - although I'd put in the caveat they can only be disqualified if they are personally involved in whatever is being tried.
>>35599820>>"Depends on how you define 'Master'."
>>35599845The US Founding fathers were actually against "select" or private Militias for exactly this reason. This is why the 90s Militia craze fell so easily to FBI fuckery and infiltration: It was never actually an army of the people, for the people. It was General Racist Uncle Rob and his cousin Lieutenant Billy-Bob sitting on boxes of MREs and discussing the Illuminati.
>>35599845#1 isn't going to fly with the Jeffersonians or freethinkers.
>>35599820>"You don't have a Master anymore. You're free."
>>35599820>"You don't have a Master anymore. You're free.">And I have a job offer for you as part of my military if you are willing to take it. Just giving them freedom and no directions will bring trouble.
>>35599933>>35599935I think the Jeffersonians will be fine>>35599820"Depends on how you define Master"
>>35599763>Can you give an example of functioning countries with 80-90% of the people are required to approve a law before it gets passed?>It has never been done before therefore it cannot workwow, GREAT argument /sarcasmalso, failing to read this bad. I explicitly namedhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IroquoisJust a few facts about them>USA constitution is a ripoff their theirs>Iroquois required 100% consensus among their representatives for a law to be passed>USA founding fathers wrote about how difficult it is to keep their populace from defecting to the iroquoisAlso, just so you realize, you need modern computer tech to have direct democracy. The technology has existed for about 10 years.Finally. The USA government is designed to simulate this process by separation of powers. You need to have senate AND house AND president AND supreme court be in favor of a law before it passes.in effect this requires a greater than 50% consensus.furthermore. the USA constitution requires a 75% majority to change, and has been changed with amendments many times. The idea is that basically the ONLY laws we have are those who are important enough to warrant a constitutional amendment
>>35599587>you want to give up power as planetary governor?Not at all, I just want to use it sparingly. I'd rather we're just there to rubber stamp what the elected representatives or whatever send us. That way the people know that when we do overrule the elected politicians, that we have a damn good reason.
>>35599933They were specifically against militias being a part of the government. Their whole purpose was as private groups to fight Federal forces if need be.
Let's not cause a logic break down. We can figure out how to get past their conditioning once we know more, but just setting them free is just asking for trouble.
>>35599982Not really. The purpose of the Militias were to be the replacement for a large standing army, and were used extensively up until the end of the War of 1812 - abandoned because they didn't work out nearly as well as Regular troops. Besides, Whiskey Rebellion?
>>35599820>Other "I am your new owner and commanding officer, yes."We haven't broken their conditioning and programming yet. If we're not careful, this will be a disaster.
Rolled 4, 3, 1, 1 = 9 (4d6)
>>35599430>police held to higher scrutiny.Not sure if trolling, but w/e.>police exist as an organized force to enforce the laws of the state and protect societyI repeat, why do we need a separate group of people to do that?
>>35599933>uncle Bob, dem cops are com' for us and be mad as a hornet
>>35599954>>35599940>No Master>what is the failsafe protocol for a super-soldier whose master has been killed?Are you sure you've thought this through?
>>35599975That's...really wrong. Or at least your wording of it is. For one, there are plenty of paws on the books that are not anywhere near needing a constitutional amendment for. And while I'm not really up on the Iroquois, I doubt the founding fathers were that worried about people defecting to them.
>>35600098We have an tendency of hanging slavers and pirates. I rarer not be one of them.
>>35599975The Iroquois are your model government? A tribal, pre-modern & pre-industrial government? Really? Nice ad hominen though.>USA constitution is a ripoff their theirs>Iroquois required 100% consensus among their representatives for a law to be passed>USA founding fathers wrote about how difficult it is to keep their populace from defecting to the iroquoisNo fucks given. >Finally. The USA government is designed to simulate this process by separation of powers. You need to have senate AND house AND president AND supreme court be in favor of a law before it passes.in effect this requires a greater than 50% consensus.Which is not the 90 or 100% you're pushing for. It's a 2/3rd majority, which is very hard to get through. >furthermore. the USA constitution requires a 75% majority to change, and has been changed with amendments many times. The idea is that basically the ONLY laws we have are those who are important enough to warrant a constitutional amendmentWhich is even harder, and why we have so few amendments versus laws in the past 230 years>>35600038My proposed state & unorganized militia would work pretty well. The swiss still have a militia system combined with a professional military & conscription system
>>35599649I fully support this, namefagging to avoid samefagging.
Gotta go AFK for 20-30 minutes, but no more than that. Try to have the bare bones of what you guys want for a government system hammered out when I get back.
>>35600089What makes you think that everyone on the street is capable of enforcing the laws of the state and to protect society from issues like a New Temptest Yakuza?Nearly every population large enough to need governance has had some sort of civil enforcer of the state. :\
>>35599845>1) People are free to form their own militias can easily become havens for racists, classists, gangs, etc. Have an Official Militia they can join, sure, but they're already all fairly well armed.an acceptable modification>>We the governor, personally not as the government, provide infrastructure and education to those who want it (at minimal prices). People are free to form their own to compete with us.>2) Because poorer areas ill-serviced by infrastructure will be unable to afford it, and get screwed over - and get stuck staying poor. Same reason why Urban City taxes pay for water and power to rural areas in the US.You fail at reading.>3) 70-90% is a nonstarter to get anything doneour definitions of "anything" differ. Most things don't need a law.>For things like Constitutional Amendments in the US, maybeonly thing you need>but for basic lawsSuch as? name one basic law that is actually necessary that will get 51% and not 91%?>budgetsThe "budget" is military, police, and infrastructure.In 85 years everyone would have basic infrastructure and any more can be privately constructed (such as by our own private corp which does that). Infrastructure pays for itself.Dividing up taxes between police and military is not difficult nor does it require anything exceptionalBesides which, if budget is the ONLY issue then we can make an exception here. create the "Planetary Bursar" position.Initially us the governor, after our corp debt is paid people vote for who it is. The planetary bursar's job is the allocation of the budget. He is an elected representative.
>>35599845>1) People are free to form their own militias can easily become havens for racists, classists, gangs, etcThat is an opinion you can have. But in reality that is the exception, rather than the rule.We currently have people doing EXACTLY THAT. The militias have linked together and are independent from us.They worked with us to crush the actual gangsWe basically have to remain vigilant and watch over it.
>>35600128>>If it can't get over 75% of the vote it shouldn't be a law>For one, there are plenty of paws on the books that are not anywhere near needing a constitutional amendment for.Yes there are plenty such laws on the book, and they shouldn't be laws.
>>35600153I could be swayed on the 'unorganized militia' bits, in light of practicality. After all, what's a "gun club" where everyone has the same militia training as the Organized Militia.Treat them as actual Clubs - they need a charter and approval (which should be auto-granted unless shennanagins), must maintain an open membership list, and cannot turn anyone away from joining (except in cases of laws being broken, etc).
>>35600192IDK. I'm surprised there were people who shot down my idea but it seems to be because people want something closer to anarchy or a very minimalist govt. They also ignore most of what you say. >>35599587All of this got was 'strawman!' in response and someone going "semi-autonomy isn't what's exactly defined as semi-autonomy in a dictionary">>35599730And how the fuck does your anarcho-capitalist f govt protect aliens better than what existing western democracies do?>>35600276The unorganized militia would basically be what the swiss has, and US kind of has. It's *every* able bodied man. Organizing them removes the "un" part. The state militia would be organized militias, though.
>>35600153>The Iroquois are your model government?No, the USA constitution is a nearly verbatim ripoff of the iroquois.I actually explicitly argued why the USA model is bad and how to fix it. The fix does not mean "go to how the iroquois did it",I only mentioned them because anon explicitly asked to name a government that has required a super majority to pass laws.>A tribal, pre-modern & pre-industrial governmentTop fucking lel.let me guess, you believe they actually were nomads with horses and living in tents?
>>35600153>in effect this requires a greater than 50% consensus.>Which is not the 90 or 100% you're pushing for. It's a 2/3rd majority, which is very hard to get through. How the fuck did you get>90 or 100% you are pushing fromfrom>I suggest 70, 80, or even 90%
>>35599917Juries perform a judges job. Cops just ensure the defendant gets in front of the jury. Honestly, if you lived in a society where everyone is heavily armed and had been trained not only in how to properly perform an arrest but how to react to an arrest, would you really resist arrest or would you take your chances in front of the court?
>>35600205>You fail at readingNot certain where you think that. There's a reason the TVA was done IRL, y'know and I'd rather it be the Colonial Government rather than the person who is the Governer provide it.>name one basic lawBudgets in the US require (skipping the Senate vote for the moment) 50%+1 to pass. California had a 2/3rds requirement, recently changed - and now California is able to actually pass budgets. Other laws include updating the criminal code, tax code, if anything needs to be banned. But "muh libertarian paradise", I know.
>>35600357>Not certain where you think that.From the fact I said>We, the tempest governor, personally have the company we own provide all infrastructure to anyone who needs it and wants ours. They are free to get it elsewhere if they don't want it from usAnd you responded with>But then the poor won't have infrastructure
>>35600192The fact that they all have military training and there are very, very few onerous laws.
>>35600355I'm trained to perform a (citizen) arrest IRL (Required as Security Guard), and the training I got was... minimal. I wouldn't trust most people to be able to pass it, either. This sort of thing is to protect people's rights from people who may be well-intentioned but have gone too far.
>>35600399Isn't corporate control of basic utilities one of the reasons that the Jeffersonians left the Core Worlds?Won't creating a situation reminiscent of that, only cause future strife?
>>35600276you... want people to require government approval to organize. you voted for space nazis didn't you?
>>35600357>Budgetsexplicitly addressed in the post you responded to.when we pay off corporate debt, have an elected representative called "planetary bursar" whose job is to allocate the currently collected taxes in a budget. make him be popularly elected via vote>Other laws include updating the criminal code, tax code, if anything needs to be banned. If you can't get a super majority behind those things, then it doesn't need to be done
>>35600348From you using 90% twice and even bringing up the Iroquois requiring 100%?>>35600329>ad hominenOk. I don't know why you kept going "btw the USA is a ripoff off of X" repeatedly as if that's meant to offend me. Again, name a functioning democratic country that has a 80-90% required approval rate for passage. It does not exist, and if it does it would only exist for the most fundamental things and would hardly ever happen. >>35600357They want an anarcho-capitalist paradise. Pie in the sky like a marxist one>>35600355Juries still go off the law and not make them up on the fly.
>>35600038>Besides, Whiskey Rebellion?The American system is set up specifically foster rebellion.Militias are meant as non-federal entities and the 2nd amendment applied specifically to cannons, explosives, and all weaponry. not dimple firearms people try to focus on today.
>>35600405Military training is shit for acting as a civil (or even military) policeman. There's a reason not every single person in the US Army isn't also an MP.Unless you're suggesting the miraculous and never-before-achieved 100% Full and Complete Understanding Of Every Law and Right Ever by the entire population, has been achieved.
>>35600324>And how the fuck does your anarcho-capitalist f govt protect aliens better than what existing western democracies do?they start out having all rights. taking away those rights and singling them out requires a 90% majority.
>>35600432Space Godwin's Law. Nice. No, I'm suggesting if they want to form a proto-military organization, register it. Because that shit has gotten out of control before. Unless somehow "militias must be registered and should be auto-approved" suddenly became "all organizations of citizens ever need government approval"
>>35600187This isn't going to happen. Hal of the people are just being assholes or just plain retarded and want NO government beyond something one step away from anarchy. Which is insane because at the beginning we had some people pushing for a statist government. >>Thats what semi-autonomy is for>>>except it isn'tI mean what the fuck is this when it explicitly fell under what's defined as "semi-autonomy" in dictionaries?
>>35599905I'm backing a civilian police force for a means to bond the community.
>>35600446>From you using 90% twice and even bringing up the Iroquois requiring 100%?100% was not advocated, it was given as an example explicity to an anon who asked if one ever existed. I have explicitly stated it was an example to answer his request for examples instead of an advocation.I explicitly stated >When corporate debt is all paid up and it is legal for us to do so, we relinquish our dictatorship for direct democracy, where it requires a large majority (70, 80 or even 90%) to pass a law. and again, if there isn't a law for it its not illegal. as per >>35599649
>>35600410Sure, the Zimmerman problem. I don't mean to dismiss that issue, but I don't think having a dedicated police force solves it. Having a separate group responsible for arrests which ordinary people can't perform creates two classes of citizens. And that creates conflict.
>>35600552>When corporate debt is all paid up and it is legal for us to do so, we relinquish our dictatorship for direct democracy, where it requires a large majority (70, 80 or even 90%) to pass a law. and again, if there isn't a law for it its not illegal. That would pretty much mean we could lose our spot as Planetary Governor before the quest ends. And yes, the QM pretty much implied the quest will take place over a much longer period of time than 85 years unless we die. >>35600570Are you just trolling at this point?
>>35600423No, their issue is government mandated monopolies.We explicitly allow anyone to compete with us on this regard.
>>35600592This isn't /v/. Who's strawmanning now?
>>35600561I think your worries of that are slim, especially if... Mmm. 1) Police must submit to Top-Level Government Oversite. This redues my worries about having cops build a network where the locals gain benefits and outsiders are ignored/treated like shit/worse.2) Community the precinct serves can, by majority vote, remove an officer from being able to serve in the precinct. 3) Local chief of police is elected.Does that help solve some of the issues? I was thinking of "requiring a stint in the police", but that might not be good either.
>>35600187>Try to have the bare bones of what you guys want for a government system hammered out when I get back.You ask the impossible.
>>35600590>Are you just trolling at this point?I'm just correcting a misconception.>Refugees from Kal 5: A strange people, the settlers of Kal 5 used cloning technology to greatly increase their population growth, and genetic manipultion to weed out defects born from the insane amounts of heavy metals in their drinking water and intense radiation. The modern ctizens are eerily uniform in appearance, bald, and resistant to most poisons and radiation. The group before you are political exiles, relative non-conformists from a society that tries to transform men into ants. a strange mix of gifted visionaries from the defunct free-thinkers preserve known as New Athens and ordinary citizens who were assigned their station in life at birth suddenly thrust into a strange and unfamiliar galaxy for not quite being in lockstep, these people will follow orders without complaint and devote their full attention to their assigned duties, although they will require considerably more overseeing due to their general lack of independent thought and initiative, and make poor soldiers due to their pacifistic upbringing.These were explicitly refugees fleeing from the Space Nazi government of Kal 5.We rejected the free-thinkers, the political dissidents, the people who didn't want to live under a Space Nazi regime, because all people could see was the planet they were fleeing from, rather than the actual refugees.
>>35600633>because all people could see was the planet they were fleeing from, rather than the actual refugees.I didn't know you could read peoples minds.
>>35600632Which is why we've been given time. The merely difficult we'd have done.The impossible will take a little while~
>>35600590>That would pretty much mean we could lose our spot as Planetary Governor before the quest ends.Just because we aren't a dictator anymore doesn't mean we are no longer in control.We basically get elected to planetary bursar position meaning we dictate budget (based on the fact that holy shit we did good the past 85 years)We still own most of the militaryWe still own most of the infrastructureWe still are the beloved founding father of society.
>>35600452Well, that's the idea of having laws everyone agrees on isn't it? If the people don't understand the law, they shouldn't be expected to obey it.>>35600523Ok, I admit that was uncalled for, though in fairness a lot of people did. Hell, I voted for them and the Neo-tokyos myself. I'd actually support registering so long as it's just an FYI. Then again, I'm also for registering biometric data and keeping a dossier on everyone. That would probably have to be the price of true democracy.
>>35600633I think it was probably the>these people will follow orders without complaint and devote their full attention to their assigned duties>they will require considerably more overseeing due to their general lack of independent thought and initiative>make poor soldiers due to their pacifistic upbringing.they are free thinkers for people raized by space nazies. not free thinkers in general.
>>35600660I wasn't even on the thread then. I only found it on Wednesday on SupTG. Of course, I, too, wouldn't have voted for them - I wouldn't have liked them for lack of intiative and poor soldiering ability.
>>35600662You won't get that when you have fucks like >>35600570 calling people assholes and space nazis for not voting on a particular group of colonists.>We basically get elected to planetary bursar position meaning we dictate budget (based on the fact that holy shit we did good the past 85 years)>We still own most of the military>We still own most of the infrastructureIt's owned by the state/head of state which we would no longer be, and at the mercy of people deciding to not elect us or take away our powers.
>>35600633No we chose the other two because we wanted to focus on a more productive and independent colonists. That is why we have all the military training, debt payment and focus on getting out of the influence of the AAAs. If we picked Kal 5 refugees they would require more personal handling compared to the Jeffersonians and Neo-Toykos.
>>35600624Yeah, that's a good compromise. Though being an anarchoutopian, I'd vote for making the information in 'top level government oversight' available to the public
>>35600187Here's my simple answer for a bare bone's layout of government at the moment:Governor with final say in anything.Start making in-roads toward getting the people working together more, and create a process for ideas to be submitted to the Governor.And we try to respect their wants and needs.Benevolent dictatorship is the best form of government. We can make enough framework to make into a democracy later on, if we want to.Basically though, I want to give the people of Tempest the feeling that their will WILL be listened to, and help them build a framework of talking to each other and hammering out suggestions that could be grown into something more when Tempest isn't just a simple colony.The people shall be the players and we shall be the QM of Tempest
>>35600624>2) Community the precinct serves can, by majority vote, remove an officer from being able to serve in the precinct. Why not the chief of police instead of what can easily become mob rule?
>>35600660It's an inference made from people's posts which referred to the Kal 5 Refugees as Space Nazi's. >What. Space Nazis or Space heroic wild west pilgrims? Seriously?>>35600691GameRoom clarified that there are free-thinkers in that group, specifically the ones taken from New Athens.>The group before you are political exiles, relative non-conformists from a society that tries to transform men into ants>a strange mix of gifted visionaries from the defunct free-thinkers preserve known as New Athens>>35600700>calling people assholes and space nazis for not voting on a particular group of colonists.The Kal 5 Refugees were the ones being called Space Nazi's when they weren't. And this has persisted every time the initial colonist choice has come up, without getting corrected.I'm trying to get it corrected now.
>>35600688People might not understand the law, or they might not like the law, and be in the minority. All putting the vote for 'common agenda items' up to 70-80% means they simply won't get done. The Iroquois maybe managed it, but where are they now? The Kingdom of Poland, every baron had a veto - effectively, 100% vote required. The end result, the formerly major power got torn apart by external foes bribing at least one baron, and then you had the partition of Poland in the 1800s.I'm for a lower majority on common items because I've seen higher ones not work in the past.
>>35600570hey, I voted for 'em. I think an anarchist utopia would work better with space nazi refugees. But, so would full fascism. I think the moral here is that space nazis make everything better. As long as they don't have a space hitler.you just know there will be a space hitler before the quest is over.
>>35600742>create a process for ideas to be submitted to the Governor.>And we try to respect their wants and needs.We already said we would in the original government charter, when we said that we would allow the population to elect representatives who would advise us. That part has already been stated as something which will be implemented.It hasn't been implemented yet, because people are still too busy building the hab domes so that they can walk outside of a sealed building without choking on the poisons in the air.
>>35600700>It's owned by the state/head of state which we would no longer be1. No, its LITERALLY owned by us. personally. Not as head of state, but as a person. I mean, just look at the most recent auction, all that money we made and spent was from our own property. Those tanks and weapons are ours, personally. We were fabulously wealthy before the quest even begun2. there are no heads of state in a direct democracy3. Once we start collecting taxes we are supposed to, hypothetically, separate our own wealth from the stuff bought for with taxpayer money. most governors don't, but we might actually be honest about this. We are still going to be fabulously wealthy
>>356007260 problem with the complaints and end-result-reports being made public - and I'm NOT an anarchoutopian. >>35600773Compromise position - mainly to make certain that cops behaving badly or shittily can be removed without being protected by the "Good Ol Boys" network IRL.If said police precinct falls under a certain population %, empty slots by Federal/Governmental MPs, which cannot be kicked out.And the Chief of Police is elected.
>>35600742that seems reasonable for the next few in-game years at least. None of us is going to get everything we want, and a lot depends on what kind of government the people want. As we've seen tonight, people do not agree on what the best form of government is.
>>35600742>Basically though, I want to give the people of Tempest the feeling that their will WILL be listened They can do that by electing representatives for an advisory council and actual reps at lower level of govt, which would be more genuine.>>35600788>The Kal 5 Refugees were the ones being called Space Nazi's when they weren't. And this has persisted every time the initial colonist choice has come up, without getting corrected.I'm trying to get it corrected now.Bull fucking shit. You're saying people didnt want them because they thought they were nazis, and then called that guy an asshole. You're 100% wrong. >>356008301. No, its LITERALLY owned by us. personally. Not as head of state, but as a person. I mean, just look at the most recent auction, all that money we made and spent was from our own property. Those tanks and weapons are ours, personally. We were fabulously wealthy before the quest even begunBecause we're a dictator atm.2. there are no heads of state in a direct democracyYou honestly think the control of the military would just be transferred to a private individual instead of a govt and it will work out swell?>>35600850>Compromise position - mainly to make certain that cops behaving badly or shittily can be removed without being protected by the "Good Ol Boys" network IRL.That doesn't exist. Whenever police corruption scandals are exposed, mayors end up being forced to set up a commission to deal with the corruption and clean out the bad weeds or their political reputation will be absolutely fucked forever. Thats what has happened to the NYPD in the 70s.
Hows this, for now:Federal1) Advisory Council by State2) +1 Rep for Kzin and our other alien friends3) Elections every 4 years, by State.State1) Area must have acceptable 'Constitution' approved by Governer2) Governer appoints leader of state (Probably by suggestion of the Local Council)3) Local Council by At Large, however many they decide4) State can be revoked by the governer prior debt repayment at any time
>>35600830>No, its LITERALLY owned by us. personallyCome to think of it, since we were the one to take out those loans, does the Independent Government of Tempest actually own anything?Like, we paid for the guns, armor, and commissions of the soldiers of the Tempest Army.We paid for the System Patrol Boats, the Cloudscoop, the Sky-El, the Trade Station, even the Hab Domes.Does the land belong to us, or to the government?What about the pirate and slaver ships we captured; are they ours or the planetary government's?
>I should spark a political debate every time I have to AFK for dinner.>Meeting with New Sons of Liberty and assorted Neo-Tokyo Representatives
>>35600825Right, I'm saying we should do that thing and set up a process for the people to communicate the need and wants of the people to us.I'f we could set up the equivalent of a electronic message board for them to argue and try to reach consensus on, and have the results sent to us, that could be great.Then we look at their suggestion, maybe clarify some things back to them, or simply tweak the idea to fit better, and implement what we can.
>>35600825some were calling for having electrions for states, cities, districts, and so on.a massive layer of tangled beurocracy.>>35600742that is actually pretty decent>The Iroquois maybe managed it, but where are they now? killed by chickenpox which was 99% lethal to them and harmless for europeans> All putting the vote for 'common agenda items' up to 70-80% means they simply won't get done.the only specific examples you have ever managed to come up with to back this up are >Banning drugs>Changing tax rates>Assigning a yearly budget1 and 2 don't need to be done3 can be handled via "elect a planetary budget bursar whose sole power is budget" or via the fact that tax budget is only going to police and military and splitting that up isn't really difficult (you create a predetermined % split, the 70-80% vote is needed to change the % rate allocation between those two).
>>35600920>Meeting with New Sons of Liberty and assorted Neo-Tokyo RepresentativesWait, what happened with the super-soldier bio-androids?
>>35600892You may not feel like it exists, but certainly others do. This addresses that concern. Again, steps would have to be taken so that communities can't empty out their precinct for the lulz.
>>35600888Exactly, we can't force everything through at once, just lay ground work.
>>35600850No, you're clearly not. I am, that's why I'm for giving people full disclosure. If everyone's making decisions for society, they need to be well informed.>>35600830This seems like a great scenario. And the good thing about a direct democracy is, even if we're not legally the dictator any more, we'll be so popular we might as well be, we just need to persuade.
>>35600914I think the Kzin should be allowed to form their own semi-autonomous community if they desire, and that's it. They shouldn't have a disproportionate pull in the govt. Nor should Cthall get representation when they're sovereign>2) Governer appoints leader of state (Probably by suggestion of the Local Council)Should be elected>4) State can be revoked by the governer prior debt repayment at any timeSounds disastrous. I'm not an anarchist but this stuff is bad.
>>35600892You're an asshole, that's pretty much plain for everyone to see.
>>35600917You paid for them with money that belongs to the Tempest Government, Since you ARE the Tempest Government for the time being, the line is fuzzy, but you do have a separate salary. Before you were appointed, you made a halfway decent living as an Asteroid miner, not the billionaire playboy philanthropist you'd need to be to even partially fund a Colony yourself.
>>35600920Wait what about the bio androids we haven't done that yet despite clear consensus.
>>35600940>a massive layer of tangled beurocracy.I don't think a self-proclaimed anarchist can objectively define something as a "a massive layer of tangled beurocracy", especially when multi-layered governments is what every country on the planet uses. >>35600967So you think two people are an asshole. Got it.
>>35600940Don't suppose you ignored my IRL examples, such as California finally being able to pass a budget when it became 50%+1, or the fall of the Kingdom of Poland?Of course, if you're coming from the assumptiong that "All laws are bad and evil and should never be passed", then I guess you might suggest this and be arguing in bad faith.in deference to bargaining, I might go as high as 60%.
>>35600914All citizens get a vote, less then enthused with representatives. Too much of a point of corruption and inefficiency.More open system of public discussion is what I'm favoring.
>>35600920Shit, forgot about that. Writing.
>>35600892>You honestly think the control of the military would just be transferred to a private individual instead of a govt and it will work out swell?It isn't transferred to a private individual, we already own all of it.we literally OWN all those tanks, and guns, and ships. we literally purchased them with our own private money, not with taxpayer money.>Because we're a dictator atm.no, because we are literally a super wealthy merchant who owns literally all means of production on this new colony he is setting up.The question is whether we will allow people to compete with us, or abuse our position to maintain a monopoly. but at the moment we own all of it
>>35600975we meant >>35599820you hadn't finished that conversation yet.
>>35601009>You paid for them with money that belongs to the Tempest Government, Since you ARE the Tempest Government for the time being, the line is fuzzy, but you do have a separate salary. Before you were appointed, you made a halfway decent living as an Asteroid miner, not the billionaire playboy philanthropist you'd need to be to even partially fund a Colony yourself.
>>35600975>You paid for them with money that belongs to the Tempest GovernmentSo wait, that means that we, Governor Greystone, don't ACTUALLY own any of this.We could argue the new stuff we bought with money taken from the Smuggler's Cache, Scarr's Cache, and Spire's Cache belongs to us, since we claimed them.But most of the planetary infrastructure is still owned by the government, not by us personally.
>>35600975what about all the stuff we bought with the money from the smuggler cache sales?
>>35600965The Kzin and the Cthall get impacted by everything else, they should at least have an advisor on teh council.#2) Is simply for now. We can change this down the road - I'm just thinking of building a colonial framework government. Think of it as the Governer General of Australia. In theory appointed by QEII, in practice the name is given by the elected Australian government.4) Not saying we *WILL* do it. Saying that we have that option. For now. Until debt repayment or change.
>>35601036>So wait, that means that we, Governor Greystone, don't ACTUALLY own any of this.you could, or conversly you could argue that we own all of this because we are a dictator
>>35601056The Cthall have direct sovereignity, which means they do not get impacted by domestic law. It's more than semi-autonomy
>>35600932yeah, this seems like a good idea. It's hard to be sufficiently futurist to imagine what we could do with the technology of the setting, but something like this should definitely get underway. And we have a long time to iron out the issues while we're just taking responsibility for everything, so when we step back the transition is pretty smooth from out decision to whatever popularity threshold we agree on.
>>35601006I'm distrustful of pure direct democracy, simply because it's inefficient and "Aint nobody got time for that". Make all proceedings and meeting open and recording on C-SPAN or something, got no problem with that.
>>35601043That gets into the thorny detail of none of the caches could have been recovered without the use of Tempest Government resources (soldiers, technicians, Megacorp mercs), as well as separating out what was bought with the profits from the Cloudscoop operation from what was bought with the proceeds from the auction/caches.
>>35600932Why do you think that's superior to granting them the semi-autonomy they desire? Semi-autonomy means they get their own government where they're represented within a larger government (the planetary govt)>adjective>partially self-governing, especially with reference to internal affairs.They are NOT advocating for anarchy. They are advocating for the equivalent of Hong Kong.
>>35601056They're on a planet mostly controlled by another government. If you are antsy, make it non-voting. They also want to integrate themselves more with human and other races in terms of trade or politics, this lets them in.
>>35600914>Statesfuck no. and fuck federalism (also known as feudalism)advisory council through community outreach. That is, large enough factions can appoint advisors. Also, major enough factions like kzin and cthal
>>35601108We could make it more of an embassy rather than an advisory post. Or even just an honorary position some where close to us.
>>35601132>advisory council through community outreach. So instead you want something with no power. Cthall are sovereign. They're not part of society, they want nothing to do with our society which is why they wanted land that's only for them. The Kzin are 600 people out of 1 million currently, too.
>>35601108>>35601072Meant to reply to you. Sorry, anonbro.>>35601102I think we're stuck on people having differing conceptions of semi-autonomy. Delaware, Hong Kong, and Canada (in theory, subject to the English Crown. ...yes it's inexact) are all 'semi-autonomous'.I think we're split between Hong Kong and US State. I think most of us would prefer US States, but I could be wrong.
>>35601085I'm not saying direct, I'm saying they all get a say in trying to influence us, rather then rely on talking heads and reps.And to get enough of a majority to agree on something enough to be flagged for our attention, they'll have to actually discuss things and work out compromise/agreement on a large scale.Like us talking here, were trying to work out how to agree on something enough to get enough people behind it for the QM to take it and work it into something usable.Maybe he'll kick back a few suggestions to clarify or refine the ideas.Or if we had a large chunk of people vote for something completely unworkable to just say no.
>>35601167No. It's split between no semi-autonomy and actual semi-autonomy. They don't know what semi-autonomy means, which is why they stopped responding when I first quoted to them the dictionary definition of it.
>>35601132That sounds... um.How exactly would that work? On the face of it from what you said I'm against it, but I'd like to hear elaboration.Also another idea:Why don't we hear what the Jeffersonians and Neo Tokyo people want?
>>35600995>especially when multi-layered governments is what every country on the planet uses.except they don't>I don't think a self-proclaimed anarchistexcept i didn't
>>35601132>advisory council through community outreach. That is, large enough factions can appoint advisors. Also, major enough factions like kzin and cthalthis has my vote, and over time we can slowly expand the power of the advisers as our colony grows
>>35601102If that is what they choose to agree on, that's fine.I'm advocating the structure between us and them for colony-wide laws and issues to be what i suggested, if they want to operate autonomously without the need for us to get involved, that's fine.
>>35601184>Like us talking hereYou realize it can't work when you call everyone who disagrees with you an asshole, right? This isn't working. We only reached a consensus a few times early on, over more minor things. Many times OP was forced to just call for a vote, like last thread. This thread is a horrible example of how your system would work well.>>35601209>except they don'tIs that all you're going to do? When you went "that's not semi-autonomy" and I gave you the dictionary definition of semi-autonomy, you ignored it.
>>35600995No, the guy who agrees with you is just a conservative. I disagree with his politics, but he was a bigger man than I am about our disagreement, so I don't think he's an asshole. And if you think that representatives are a good system, you're not an asshole. You're just wrong.
>>35601184What's that petition thing, Whitehouse.gov?Westminster-style Parliament Systems have a thing called 'Question Time'. Questions are given by the Parliament (ahead of time, to allow for research/proper reply), and the Government cannot refuse to answer except in cases of declared national security.Modify my original suggestion further and have that, in petition form with threshold, accessable to the population?
>>35600998>Don't suppose you ignored my IRL examplesI didn't, you just refuse to read my post where I specifically address this issue. over and over again, in massive excruciating detail>Of course, if you're coming from the assumptiong that "All laws are bad and evil and should never be passed"I am not, but so far the ONLY laws you mentioned when I asked you what law might need a 51% majority and won't pass on a 70-80 your ONLY responses were>Ban drugs>Change tax rate>BudgetAnd I addressed each one of those.We already had an overwhelming consensus to NOT ban drugs.We don't need to tweak the tax rate every yearAnd the budget thing has been addressed ad nasium in the post you were replying to as well as several others in the same conversation chain. you just ignore it and then claim I am ignoring your argument, when i am explicitly addressing it
>>35601241You called two people an asshole >>35600967 >>35600570>>35601254>What's that petition thing, Whitehouse.gov?Change.org gets largely ignored by the Obama Administration when it's shit they don't like. Referendums are another story, but it hardly happens in the USA
>>35601262>I didn't, you just refuse to read my post where I specifically address this issue. over and over again, in massive excruciating detailThat's an odd way to say "bald assertation", but if it works for you... I bet you advocate for a flat tax, or no tax and all sales tax.
>>35601085My own vote would be for a direct democracy for the day to day with a dictator for life to step in when things get mired. But while I think that would work best for encouraging participation and getting shit done, it unfortunately wouldn't satisfy any of the idealists.
>>35601294No reason why we couldn't put it into our 'constitution' that we *must* answer them.And I'm from California. The Prop system is a thing, and can showcase why I dislike direct democracy. Our tax system is screwed by Prop 13 (Covers all propery, not just Primary Residences), and things like Prop 8 can be pushed by outside forces (most of the funding for it was from the Mormon Church)
>>35601233>Is that all you're going to do?Your argument was literally>Everyone is doing itwhich is a false claim.I put in the same effort as you by saying>no they don'tcause i am sick and tired of arguing with you specifically, since you keep on pulling shit like>When you went "that's not semi-autonomy" and I gave you the dictionary definition of semi-autonomyfalse, you gave the exact opposite of semi autonomy, and just insisting on calling it semi autonomy. like a "peoples republic" is not actually a republic.>you ignored it.see >>35599490
>>35601308As long as we don't constantly intrude they would accept it since we can play the BOLO hero card.
where's OP to tell us to STFU and do the government for us? we have a libertarian/federalist in the pure sense, anarchist, someone who wants direct democracy and a US conservative. no consensus is going to be reached when everyone has very different ideas on governance and considers the other side to be too extreme
The Androids turn and look at each other, most likely communicating silently through directional micro-burst transmissions. It's rather eerie for a moment, before One turns to you again, the remaining albino, identical faces regarding you with flat black eyes:"Previous intelligence was that we would be eliminated by governmental authorities if we were not under a Master. This is false?""False. Governmental authorities would have eliminated you anyway, but those laws do not apply to this planet. We're an Autonomous Zone."The Androids converse silently again, before One once again addresses you:"What individual or group is in control of this Autonomous Zone?""That would be me."From the length of the unearthly silence among the vaguely simian Warrior-Androids, they're chatting up a storm inside their heads.They turn to you as one, an extremely disconcerting action."What does 'freedom' entail? Other Androids we have been sent to eliminate have spoken of it, and some Traitors have offered it in exchange for their lives, but we are not familiar with it.">"Freedom means you can do basically whatever you want that does not infringe on the rights of another Sapient being.">"Every man has to find that out for himself. If you like, I can give you a position as my bodyguards, and you can decide what you want to do from there, or you can go out to make your own place in the world and figure it out for yourself.">Other
>>35601308The Roman Republic isn't the best of models to choose from, though, and was highly aristocratic and wealth-focused, and the system was fairly hostile to populist movements.HELLFIRE, why don't we just set up a Winchester-style Parliamentary Monarchy :v (this is a joke)
>>35601347Ok. Here's the fucking linkhttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/semiautonomoushttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/semi-autonomy?s=tSo you're telling me you're right and a legit dictionary is wrong on what semi-autonomy means?
>>35601300>>>>>How can you pass budgets with 80-90% vote required?>>>>via "elect a planetary budget bursar whose sole power is budget" (51% election for only this specific thing) or via the fact that tax budget is only going to police and military and splitting that up isn't really difficult (you create a predetermined % split, the 70-80% vote is needed to change the % rate allocation between those two).>>>You keep ignoring me when I ask you how can you pass budget>>But I answered it>That's an odd way to say "bald assertation"
>>35601380>>"Freedom means you can do basically whatever you want that does not infringe on the rights of another Sapient being.">>"Every man has to find that out for himself. If you like, I can give you a position as my bodyguards, and you can decide what you want to do from there, or you can go out to make your own place in the world and figure it out for yourself."
>>35601408Geentexting is one step above "ad hominen" on the argument pyramid
>>35601380>>"Every man has to find that out for himself. If you like, I can give you a position as my bodyguards, and you can decide what you want to do from there, or you can go out to make your own place in the world and figure it out for yourself."Also QM: Any chance we could get a suggestion on what the Jeffersonians and Neo Tokyo types would want for governance? I think we're getting into a Libertarian vs Anarchy vs 1 Lone Statist argument that will never end.
>>35601395>>>Here is my 4000 word essay on a weighty beurocracy>>>I call it semi autonomy>>This isn't semi autonomy, its the opposite of it, you just throw the word semi autonomy on it. like how people's republic aren't actual republics>Sure it is, here is the dictionary definition>partially self-governing, especially with reference to internal affairs.>See, I am right!
>>35601380>"Every man has to find that out for himself. If you like, I can give you a position as my bodyguards, and you can decide what you want to do from there, or you can go out to make your own place in the world and figure it out for yourself."Because Spider is probably the best person to relate to these supersoldiers, and this is the most legit job they can get right now.
>>35601380>"Every man has to find that out for himself. If you like, I can give you a position as my bodyguards, and you can decide what you want to do from there, or you can go out to make your own place in the world and figure it out for yourself."
>>35601254This I can support.As long as well listen to them more often than not it should work well enough.>>35601233And if they can't agree, it doesn't need to be a colony-wide issue, they can handle it autonomously, and if it is a major issue with no agreement then we have to step in.
>>35601427>Literal motherfucking quotes is ad-hominomyou are literally retarded anon. And this isn't ad-hominom by virtue of being true.
>>35601395>>35601456This is why I was asking about Hong Kong vs Delaware vs Australia (in relation to the Crown).Can't have a conversation if two people's diffentions of the subject differ.
>>35601475In practice, of course we're going to listen to them unless it's something bloody stupid, like "Can we keep the Rachs as pets" or "Lets declare war on the Commonwealth".
>>35601456>>>>Here is my 4000 word essay on a weighty beurocracyStrawman. A multi-layered government is something standard in every country. You really can't argue outside of greentext, huh? If states can manage their own affairs without higher-level govt intervention, but they're not sovereign and the national govt controls affairs outside of their borders, it's semi-autonomy. An advisory council where they have to talk to the planetary dictator and plead for X gives the people less power than them directly electing their own officials to pass laws and making their own referendums. inb4 more greentext and you just going "no you're wrong"
>>35601380>>"Every man has to find that out for himself. If you like, I can give you a position as bodyguards, and you can decide what you want to do from there, or you can go out to make your own place in the world and figure it out for yourself."You'll be paid, and have the right to leave for other work if you so choose.
>>35601496I agree with you thereThe thing is I have been explicitly telling him that I think his "semi autonomy" is the same as "people's republic" for like 10 posts and he keeps on insisting the 9 word dictionary definition is identical to his 4000 character proposal (he had to split it up into several posts because it was too big, I didn't count exact characters, but with 2000 char a post limit...)
>>35601542>The state thing was only an actual paragraph. Most of it was about setting up a militia and the process of statehood. All you did was greentext, attack my character and just dismiss everything I said out of hand. You are doing everything but arguing with someone you disagree with in good faith.
>>35601294That wasn't me. And that guy only called you an asshole, he was being sarcastic when he said it to me. Or so I assume.>>35601254Yeah... I'd be for something like that, but updated to account for modern technology. I know we didn't spring for an AI, but it should really be possible in this setting to have algorithms that streamline the kind of messy discussions people would have to create nice, neat proposals for the governor with an indicator of how many people want it. At some point, the issue just becomes communication and data management, which should really be easy to take care of. Basically, we need a program that can take an idea and express it more simply. That should be all it takes for people to arrive at a consensus (or close to) within a reasonable timeframe. Excluding of course those who can't be bothered.Anyway, I'm off to bed. Sorry to make the teams uneven.
>>35601535>A multi-layered government is something standard in every country.Personally, I'd like as few layers as possible.
And this is why you never discuss politics.
>>35601570Oops. Didnt mean to put a > there>>35601583Semi-autonomy implies there's at least two layers minimum. The reason we have multi-layered governments is because it's more efficient and personable than having one behemoth-like govt institution managing every fabric of society. It gives people more local control if they can vote for how their town is managed without the entire country voting for that too.
Update:Federal1) Advisory Council by Locality2) +1 Rep for Kzin and our other alien friends, nonvoting if need be3) Elections every 4 years, by Local.4) Public "Question Time" Petition, must be answered during next regularly schedule Question Time if petition is x% of population (1-5 suggested)Local1) Area must have acceptable 'Constitution' approved by Governer2) Governer appoints head of state, from suggestion of Local Council3) Local Council by At Large, however many they decide (could be 1/1, could be 1/1000)
>>35601632suggestion? Shittballs. That's not what I meant. ARGH. Basically, Local Council says "We want this guy". Governer says yes/no.
>>35601454>>35601458>>35601411>>35601540>"Every man has to find that out for himself. If you like, I can give you a position as my bodyguards, and you can decide what you want to do from there, or you can go out to make your own place in the world and figure it out for yourself."They stop moving for quite some time, evidently in deep discussion, before One addresses you once again."This is acceptable, provided we are allowed to remove ourselves from your service once we have collected sufficient data to formulate long-term plans.""Good. I'm putting you under the command of Spider here. He's probably the one who can relate to you the most, and will be able to help you adjust. I'd also suggest making contact with some of the other Androids on this world and talking with them about their lives and choices. It'll help you understand your own better.""Affirmative."Your Holocom, rather dinged and worn after all the hard use you've put it through lately, bleeps tonelessly at you, alerting you to an alarm that should have gone off 30 minutes ago."Dammit, I'm late. I have to go. Spider, see to their placement.">Political Hall
Guys no matter what kind of system we implement, we MUST have the final say in things, and we MUST own the military, and all of the important infrastructure. This is non-negotiable. If our people can legally sabotage our decisions, then it will spell bad things for us, the Governor of this planet.
>>35601722If by 'we' you mean 'government', then I don't have a problem as long as we cannot deny people unreasonable access to it, and are mandated that everyone have access to it.This includes connection to the datanet. :vOf course, specific MANAGEMENT of owned utilities could be spun off to corporations and businesses, and I'd entertain arguments in favor of that (I don't like it but can be swayed)
>>35601722I dont think we should own it. We should be the head of the military by naturally being the dictator of the planet. >>35601681>Political HallPlease. No votes on this. There's been more than enough "civil discussion" to be had. Just work something out based on what everyone wanted.
>>35601606I'm thinking two layers as well.1) Everyone working out suggestions for colony-wide things, they we may implement.2) Work out what they want at a the lower levels.
>>35601768I was under the assumption that WASNT for voting. If it is, oh gods we are going there right now
>>35601765Just remember we were personally appointed as planetary governor by the AAAs. And I would doubt it they would like a different person in charge that would risk turning their investment back on them especially if it was one of the Jeffersonians.
>>35601768This is too important not to hold a vote over.
>>35601722>we MUST own the military, and all of the important infrastructureThe Tempest Government technically owns that already, not us.Per OP >>35600975>You paid for them with money that belongs to the Tempest Government>Before you were appointed, you made a halfway decent living as an Asteroid miner, not the billionaire playboy philanthropist you'd need to be to even partially fund a Colony yourself.All of the initial infrastructure and military are owned by the government, not by us personally.
>>35601807I was just making certain that we are seperating our *personal finances and ventures* from the *Government of Tempest*, especially down the lines when the debt gets paid, and we have a chance of no longer being the Governor.I doubt the Jeffersonians would like civil infrastructure in *private hands*.
>>35601788>New Thread. I lost my post like an idiot, so give me roughly five minutes.
>>35601841We can't, we've already spent significant personal funds investing in the Tempest's Government. So we would need to keep track of that as well.
>>35601606>Semi-autonomy implies there's at least two layers minimum.Your use of the word layer is telling. Layers are not in any way autonomous, not even semi. The bottom rungs are 100% reponsible to obeying every single law of the top rungs. Furthermore, there is no self determination in determination the structure of local government since you had it all figured out to the T.Please read the definition:http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/semiautonomous>partially self-governing, especially with reference to internal affairs.http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/semiautonomous>(Of a country, state, or community) having a degree of, but not complete, self-government:>communityYou proposed a system wherein we design and implement a multi layered federal system where we designed every step of the ladder.A situation where the kzin or the cthal have to answer to SOME but not ALL planetary laws but otherwise form their own government however they want to, is an example of semi autonomy.IRL example of the legal exemptions is how hong kong is EXEMPT from many communist laws of china, because its "semi autonomous".IRL example of the self determination of local government structure is how native american reservations in the USA form their own tribal government in whatever way they deem appropriateOr how hamish or kibutzes have their own internal governing structures that have not been dictated to them from above.Those are modern examples, you can find more in history.
>>35597304Thanks. That's really helpful. Did you need to make an account for that?
>>35602134I made an account. IDK if you need one to make new pages, but you dont to edit ones.