What if America has a Warring States period, just like Japan?Before you call me a weeb, hear me out. In theory, every US state is supposed to be a sovereign nation, that bows to the authority of the federal government, correct? So, lets say a disaster strikes, and the Fed is no more. Now, all 48 states (sorry Alaska and Hawaii) must fight for ultimate control of the Continent, from sea to shining sea.How would the states react? Would some of them ally? Would everyone zerg rush California? Does Texas need new pants? Where does canada fit in?I really want to hash this setting out, I can imagine all kinds of uses, and the insight of anons from other states would be a big help.
>>35211228Damnit Al... You're doing the Emperor's work. Lets get started.
>>35211228Now the question begs, what time period are we gonna set this in?
>>35211228Sengoku America... alright!A big obstacle is that some states are dramatically larger than others (NYC alone has more population than some entire states), but certain alliances could balance that out. The guerrilla warfar in the Midwest and Appalachians would be pretty intense, though
I would imagine that the central states would try to form an alliance and control the wheat and corn.
Another question, how bad is conflict for the central region of the US? Are nukes still a thing?
A big sticker is when this happens. It gets less fun as you remove states, but including missiles just makes the point of each state building an army pointless. Perhaps a late Wild West, after the states have been found and settled, but before they are completely relaxed from frontiersmanship? Perhaps the tribes would still be around to wreak havock...At the same time, ball and musket could be fun as well. A massive, structurless Civil War just spins out of control until it is every state for itself, with new ones being made to avoid the shitstorm only to be drawn in as well.
>>35211356>the Corn must flow>>35211370No nukes would be more entertaining, but that depends on what time period this is
What time period are we talking here?
>>35211228Entertainingly enough the general strategy for a Warring U.S. would be about the same as in Japan - Go for the smaller and more vulnerable states near the edges of the country before moving into the center, where the more valuable breadbowl states lie.The major difference is going to be in the sheer size of North America. Modern technology helps to mitigate that but that still leaves huge amounts of space to hide caches of supplies, armies, settlements, everything. In addition, having so much space pretty much eliminates most of the reason for going to all-out war with the different states in a lot of areas.In addition, the original Warring States had relatively little interaction with the world at large. The Warring U.S. wouldn't have such a luxury. Foreign powers would be all up in our shit as fast as they could, or at least would be influencing who's winning.Would you want to use modern-day technology, Sengoku-era technology, or something yet again different? That makes a big difference. I doubt that California would be useful for anything other than a money-pit state, so I imagine they'd pull together an army and start acting aggressively faster than the other states due to getting cash and maybe actually needing the space for farms and such.
>Moonshinan' hill clans>Native tribes struggling to reclaim the West>An Industrialized Great Leaks Empire>Deep ones retake New England>Britbongs drink tea
>>35211228Just want to point out the U.S.A. did have a warring states period...more than once flaring into open warfare. Then it was found that Natives and Latinos were easier to kill.
>>35211446What if California became a mercenary paradise? Prussian, French and English expats as well as American cowboys flocking under the banner of pic related
>>35211446California has tons of agriculture, a large population/economy and major ports. They wouldn't need to conquer the Midwest. And none of their neighbors are really major food producers, either. Really, CA or TX win.
Well we could always use this to help plan out the different factions and alliances
>>35211452>Moonshinan' hill clansOh fuck son, you think the south is rural today, all the blood feuds between families lasting centuries would make that place positively medieval
If gaming has taught me anything, whoever can cause the most collateral damage will ultimately win.
>>35211497Make it so.
>>35211446I think modern era is right out, too many issues. Alt-history would be best, and Im leaning to Wild West mid-1800s for the iconic weapons and frontier culture. And cowboy dragoons is just too cool to pass up.With that in mind, it is quite the opposite strategy. The plains are just barren cattle ranches with a few crossroad towns, while the oceans have rich ports and high population.
>>35211603Literal rail wars as factions fight for control of rail hubs and the Trans-Continental. Armored trains optional.
>>35211603Maybe when the south splits away, the Federal government is unable to hold most, if not all the other states together, resulting in a much weaker/splintered North of the US and a less industrialized, but moreunified Confederacy with multiple other states trying to either stay alive, out of a group or form their own power blocks
>>35211505Agreed though Virginia would also be a major player due to the amount of military equipment that state would inherit.
>>35211497HALT THE FUCK RIGHT THERENOT AGAIN
>>35211637Hmmm, how would interstate commerce like the trains work? Some kind of bounty, whoever can fill it, fighting their way through hostilestates to protect the cargo? Or do the companies have well trained guards to keep the lines neutral?Possible alliance: east washington, east oregon, idaho and Montana form Greater Columbia, or the inland northwest alliance. Ideas been kicking around up here for over a century, but never really gets any traction.
>>35211603Actually, in an 1800's era the coastal cities would be prime targets for the very fact that they would be wealthier than inland areas. The strongholds would be the dales, dells, and hollars in the mountain foothills, with the best locations having access to the larger rivers for transport and water powered factories.
>>35211665Virginia would probably be the biggest Eastern power, not only because of size or military equipment but because of all the agricultural output.California would take this role in the West, wtih all of it's natural resources and controllling so much of the West Coast (can't underestimate the international trade advantage). Texas would take it in the South for obvious reasons, and Michigan or Illinois in the North depending on what time period it is
>>35211645Then years go by of uneasy truce between North and south, with the frontier growing in size and power, but not wealth. Eventually, they start raiding the east, putting greater strain on an already flawed system, and after a few crazy years its every state for themselves.
Louisiana would withdraw into seclusion, protected by their hostile terrain and bog people while growing rich from the hidden city of New Orleans.
>>35211809I see the plains as one anarchic mess, borders changing every day as no one present cares to fight for it after so long, making it a slow but usable track of land to cross the nation. Easy to take and move over, hard to really hold. The coasts are valuable, but well defended and populated, obvious hard targets requiring seige or outright destruction. Not so simple for a potential Nobunaga to move through and claim.
>>35211871This is a good idea.
>>35211915Nobunaga didn't have the knowledge base to build steam powered ships with rifled guns and explosive shot.
>>35211915So I'm thinking...Plains: Anarchic messPorts: Hard, urban targets. Small but wealthyFarmland: More firmly entrenched heirarchy, almost fuedal, heavily contested and constantly fought over.Mountains: Almost tribal, Native tribes and moonshiners make their living but it's almost guaranteed death for an outsider to enterGreat Lakes: Very industrialized, maintains profitable relationship with Canada but is a frequent raid targetNew England: A heavily organized but chaotic mess of small, traditional forces locked in constant border wars and skrimishes
>>35211497>>35211688i expect equal rightsthe emperor norton must touch
Texas is a huge force but is locked in a bloody war with Mexico, keeping it distracted from rolling over the border states that occasionally launch opportunistic raids for cattle and trade goods
So what causes the balkanization in the first place?Is it just "the Civil War spirals out of control with every little demographic wanting to secede" or is there more to it?
>>35211505>>35211665>People who have never been to TX or seen a single resident of that stateTexas is where the Amerifat stereotype comes from. Yes. They have guns. Yes. They're very motivated. No. They won't make it out of their state boarders before 80% of their armed forces drop dead of heart attacks.Also, taking advantage of the ensuing chaos, Mexico's cartels would utterly buttfuck Texas and any sad saps on the boarder.The only way Texas has a chance is if this wasn't set in modern day (Still no centralized opinion on time period yet) and the earlier you get, the more Mexico remembers how the US stole Texas from them.
>>35211990You crack open clams, you dont crush them along with the pearl, because then you spend awhile picking shell out of your dinner, and have destroyed the jewel.>>35212013Looks about right. Honestly I think Appalachia should be its own nation, because no way tax collectors come back alive otherwise, and thats the only mountain range with a reputation. Dont know anything about New England, so leaving that to you.
>>35212222I'm all about Appalachian history, those fucks were crazy with their moonshine, blood feuds and miner's rebellions. I can't imagine -any- kind of government holding sway in that region in this setting, just different families and tribes, perhaps with more respected individuals exerting influence over lesser tribes. Not necessarily the strongest individual, but the most beloved and respected.
>>35212119Well, the premise is a not so united States. How it happens is a bit hazy, but it ends up a fight for control/survival.Think some of the worst points in roman history, when every legion had their own emperor who has to fight for the whole pie.
Okay. Want to do a historical America is a warring clusterfuck of independent states that can't get along? Look to the Articles of Confederation.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_ConfederationNow imagine that the Federalists never got the Constitution off the ground (Maybe Adams and Hamilton and Monroe and whoever else died in the war). Imagine a nation that is not a nation at all. A confederacy of states whose only, repeat ONLY federal organization is Congress. The federal money is practically worthless, it can't enforce taxes, and every state is in debt to every other state because of the war. It would be a giant clusterfuck.But to the West...there is land. There are resources. The Indian territories. France is too busy with a revolution and war with England to be able to afford to hold onto the Louisiana territory. Past that? New Spain, and Spain is in decline. Territories like the Western Reserve sound real tasty to small states like Connecticut. If they can populate it and tame it, They wouldn't have to take New York or Pennsylvania's shit anymore....
>>35212119I'd do Warring States right after the Revolution:Washington attempts to accept the offer of a Kingdom, drawing the Tidewater into its own Crown Nation.Jefferson, fearing for his life and livelihood, burns Monticello and runs to the Sea Islands, establishing safe harbor for slave, freeman, and white.Franklin, in his dotage, seeks allies in France, sending scouts from Philadelphia into northwest. The French, using their placement in Canada, split the Northwest Territory with Franklin, founding the two states of Noveau Gaule and the Franklin (figure Ohio and Michigan cede to Franklin, Indiana, Illinois, up into Canada cede to NG).The British, seeing an opportunity, use loyalists still based in Boston to establish a loyalist state with strong naval presence that takes Connecticut and the Eastern half of Mass. Ethan Allen, seeing the writing on the wall, retreats into the Green Mountains, taking the western half of Mass into the state of Vermont. Rumors abound that Benedict Arnold, saved by Franklin and his Junto, is the power behind Rhode Island, which serves as a neutral naval power. The Dutch rise up and return New Amsterdam to its rightful place as a Dutch-American state, while Adams takes New Jersey to form the Garden of Reason, a deist-theocratic state.Maine and New Hampshire become a singular state known as Union, formed around the New England Town Hall model of democratic leadership. They want to stay out of the war, but several former Revolutionary heroes move forward.... Anyone got anything to add?
>>35212397>Thomas Jefferson retreats to the Sea Island
>>35212355Taking it that far back makes sense, but it raises questions on the formation of states and territtories. Would everone just expand into superstates? Would sections splinter off? Would new states be made at all?The advantage of 1850s is that all 48 contiguous states are at least territories and populated, plus all that fun Western stuff.Anyone know about canada?
>>35212397My only problem with that is you'd basically be limiting yourself to "anything east of the Mississippi".Not unless you want to push forward the timeline by a half century OR come up with an excuse to kickstart western expansion early.
If that happened, Southern Oregon and Northern California would unite to form the State of Jefferson.We would then proceed to be the raddest fucking state in the country.
There was an old strategy game called Shattered Union which used this premise. Basically, disaster strikes and the US government shits the bed. The US divides into six alliances, based roughly on geographic regions. The goal is to conquer the whole rest of the USA and then kill the goddamn rooskies who, it turns out, were behind the whole thing.
>>35212486You could move forward on that. Alliances between local tribes, the greed of bordering states. The French and Spanish duking it out over the Louisiana Purchase, Franklin expanding into the West, the EIC rooting itself deep in Hispanola and coming up the coast to Mejico and Tejas... Then you get into the real fun stuff.
>>35212486The total landmass of the 13 colonies is nearly 2.5x that of Japan (360,000 vs. 145,000 sq. miles). That's an enormous fucking map for a warring states period setting.
>>35211377Perhaps one could go hand in hand. After all, quite a few Civil War vets lived to see the end of WWII.
>>35212397>Benedict Arnold in Rhode Island>Not being the power behind the throne for the Dutch hiding at West PointIt's like you don't give a fuck about history anon.
>>35212475Amusingly enough, about the only thing the Articles of Confederation actually managed to organize well were the formation of states and territories. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Ordinance_of_1785http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_OrdinanceApparently when the Homestead Act went into effect in the 1860s, the groundwork of surveying all that territory had been started by the Articles of Confederation. So it seems ripe for a rapid push westward.As for Canada, Continental forces (including Benedict Arnold) tried to take Quebec during the Revolutionary War and then America invaded Canada again during the War of 1812. Both times the campaigns were dismal failures.
Take a look at this and tell me what you guys think.
>>35212397Somewhere in the back country of Virginia, Nathanael Greene hunts those who would oppose King Washington's rule, but hits a snag in the form of a resistance led by a disgraced, obstinate, foul-smelling general surrounded by a pack of loyal dogs: Charles Lee.
>>35212673>Greene vs. LeeThat would be an interesting fight. Lee had to learn to duel after all of those challenges, and he was a master dog breeder.Of course Marion is gathering a battle to regain his honor by committing a full out guerrilla war on Washington after the promises made regarding his kingship. And I forgot about Maryland and Delaware completely. What are your opinions on that?
>>35212672To many republics
>>35212726This, and I would also replace most of the "United States" that's left over with a Virginian state, a New York dominated New England, and a Rust Belt state, as well as a midwest state.
>>35212672I think the actual US is pretty fucking big, extending all the way to kansas. Michigan/Illinois forming a great lakes nation would round that off a bit and limit them to early states and colonies.Hawaii is utterly irrelevant in this because of sheer distance.
>>35212716Colonial Maryland was started as a Catholic colony, but Anglicanism was enforced as the official religion after 1688, so by the Revolution, Maryland has a lot of Catholics, but they're worshiping in private, which could be an interesting wildcard. Also, Maryland and Pennsylvania fought a border war between 1730-1767 called Cresap's War that ended only when the King of England stepped in in 1738 to enforce a cease fire. (1767 was when the Mason-Dixon line was established as a permanent border between the two). Delaware seems quieter for the time period. Lots of scandinavians and spent most of the Revolution untouched by fighting and occupied by the British. Afterwards, it was a state that pushed harder for strong centralized government (and the first to ratify the Constitution). Funny thing, the governor of Delaware's title in 1776 was "President"
>>35212837So we could have Marylanders serving an American Crusade?Pleasepleaseplease yes!
>>35212672I'm just going to let you know, as a resident of Hawaii, if Hawaii ever broke off, it would make itself a Kingdom. There is literally popular support for that idea RIGHT NOW, without a waring states era. Not saying I support that Idea (I don't) but that's what would happen.
>>35212884I know. The map isn't great, but it's a start I think.I have plenty of friends from Hawaii who will attest to the support of a Kingdom haha
>>35212876Dunno about a Crusade. That's been out of fashion for for several centuries by the historical Revolutionary War. (I know the Knights of St. John were still holed up in Malta and fighting against pirates and Muslims and Muslim pirates, but they're a holdover until Napoleon conquers the island).Now, some Hatfields & McCoys style backwoods feudin' between Catholic and Anglican? That would probably be a given with the breakdown of central authority.
>>35212397Pretty sure the french had already lost canada, that was the french and indian war after all. They also hadn't bought Louisiana back from Spain yet (they sold it right before the end of the french and indian/seven years war so that british wouldn't get it.)
>>35212956Cripes I need to go to bed. I'll look more into the nature of the 13 colonies during the Revolutionary war tomorrow on Wikipedia. Some truly fascinating stuff. Also worth noting: Slavery was still very much a thing during the 1770s-90s. Even in the North, like New York and Rhode Island. And it was DEFINITELY an issue for a lot of people. (The British offered freedom and emancipation to runaway slaves during the Revolution, for instance. Abolitionists are found throughout the colonies, etc)
>>35213088Yeah in basically either really early (articles of confederation OR king Washington) version you're basically guaranteed to have a lot of slave uprisings.It'd be interesting to see the affects of such a massive failure of federalism in latin america, where Gran Colombia, Peru-Boliva and the Federal Republic of Central America all ended up breaking down, but that's a bit of a digression.
>>35212182The stereotypical Texan is no more accurate than the stereotypical Amerifat is, ya damn yank.
>>35213279It is if you discount all the mexicans. Wait that applies to amerifats too.
>>35211497Emperor Norton played by John C Reilly when?
Why not set the whole thing into Europe, they had many states.
>>35212182>Buttmad Oklahoman detectedNice try, chump
>>35212672>DesseretI thought Deseret only had one s in it, Anon
>>35211311>Sengoku AmericaI want this computer game now!
>>35212182You need to look somewhere outside of Austin/Houston. A state capatal is not the whole state.
>>35211228Are you guy factoring in traditional alliances that would be caused by shared culture? eg pic related
>>35215610This is nice, but someone already pointed out that the original 13 colonies were way larger then Japan was at any time.So maybe focus on the 13 colonies.
>>35219112I'm fairly sure all the Indian Nations might have something to say about all of this sudden onset widespread violence if you go back to the 13 colonies.
>>35212397Canada was British by that point - the British government trying to squeeze money out of the American colonies to pay for the war against France and Spain was one of the factors that lead to the revolution.In the scenario you propose, I could easily some of those northern states returning to the British fold, lots of loyalists from the north-eastern states fled to Canada during the War of Independence, and they might take the opportunity provided by a war amongst the States to reclaim their homes
>>35219112How quickly because less than 33% of the people in the colonies actually supported the revolution and over 50% didn't give a fuck but were kicked out for not being supportive and the rest were also kicked out for supporting England?
>>35211470Damnable whiskey tax.
>>35215610>tfw living on the frontier between Greater Appalachia and Deep South
>>35211377Let's say Wild West days. Maybe some of the later states (Like Arizona) aren't OFFICIALLY states, but they're home to American populations and natives. They can be our Nanman or... what the fuck is that island off Japan called? The one with all the Ainu.
>>35211505>California has tons of agricultureI was under the impression that Cali was basically created for World War two when the US needed some place to resupply its pacific fleet.And that without Washington backing Cali up on stealing water from its neighbours, the State would be forced to shrink significantly.
>>35222900Nah. California became a full state in 1850. As for the agriculture thing, Northern California is quite fertile. The water problems most likely come from concentrating a massive population (LA) in an already dry region.
>>35211497>This...is our outer California
>>35212073>Implying mexico is capable of doing SHIT
>>35211228>Would everyone zerg rush California?Depends on whether this is historical or fantasy.I can tell you right now nobody in their right mind would want to conquer California as it is nowadays, though conversely California would be scrambling to beat everyone else.
>>35212182>Oklahoma faggotStill mad how we kicked your ass and stope chuck norris?
>>35213285>Implying we won't unleash the Mexican horde
>>35225840Scrambling is the right word. Northern and Southern California would probably fight each other just as much, assuming that they could come to a consensus.
>>35226024This.Here is some art for the impending campaign of the Californian Wars
>>35227315Yellow Elf Diplomancer
>>35227345Human Battle Master
>>35227397My original character, a dark elf ranger named Drazzt, and HER party.
>>35227452A typical encounter
>>35227480So many bards in this campaign, fucking 5e...Hope yall enjoyed.
>>35227480>riding a mailbox into battlenice
>>35227515>>35227480>>35227452>>35227422>>35227397>>35227373>>35227345>>35227315These are amazing.
>>35227659http://www.sandowbirk.com/paintings/the-great-war-of-the-californias/I saw this guy in person, giving a presentation of an illustrated Dante's Inferno done in much the same art style. I also have an artbook of all the works in the Great War of the Californias at home.