The wiki: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_/tg/_HeresyThe google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TAl_Rh3q0UR3cqX6Pbn-4TnB87BS-GrFrax-ErtOL2E/editWe still need to iron out the legions and remove the ones that aren't clearly defined.
>>34515710This is a good start for the Marshals.
>>34515870Well, let's define them then.I want everyone to fill out their entry for this:Legion Warfare specializationI) Knights of Justice - II) War Scribes - III) Silver Spears - IV) Sons of Fire – Purgation/Area DenialV) Void Angels - VI) The Entombed - VII) Scions of Europa -VIII) Children of Armok -IX) Machine Guard - X) The Crusaders - XI) Wolves of Dawn/Heralds of Hektor – Shock AssaultXII) Life Bringers – Biological Warfare?XIII) Nova Defenders – Ranged Warfare/Plasma WeaponryXIV) Black Augurs - PsykerXV) Barrow Lords XVI) Eternal Zealots - XVII) Gorgers – Bloody Close AssaultsXVIII) Sand Keepers -XIX) Eyes of the Emperor -XX) Iron Rangers -XXI) Council of Iron - XXII) Thunder Kings -XXIII) Silver Cataphracts - XXIV) Mastodontii – Armoured WarfareXXV) Scale Bearers - XXVI) Steel Marshalls - XXVII) Stone Men -
>>34515922>VI) The Entombed - Auxiliary Shock Troops
Legion Organisation of the MastadontiiThe Mastadontii Legion was a highly structured though not entirely inflexible military force, with numerous tactical and strategic divisions of power and organisations within its ranks. Before the discovery of their Primarch, the Steel Wing Legion had been rigidly dogmatic in its adherence to the patterns set out for the nascent Legions at the start of the Great Crusade though with as bias towards armoured assaults with close air support, and Tollund Ötztal deliberately went out of his way to ensure that despite the changes he wrought to more closely resemble the systems of his frigid homeworld, the Legion would not change beyond all recognition from what had gone before, building upon what had gone before.The principal strategic building block of the Mastadontii Legion was the Mingghan, or Brigade. This was a combined arms formation, which in addition to the standard 1,000 line Space Marine Legionaries also incorporated a very substantial amount of standing armour, artillery and logistical support elements, attendant human auxiliary troops, Mechanicum detachments and integrated support structures far beyond that found in other Legions at the same level. This meant that each Mastadontii Mingghan was a powerful offensive force in its own right, capable of independent action. Inside an Mingghan, the component formations were configured and ordered in such a way that each unit's function combined together to form a gestalt whole whose tactical and strategic capabilities, like the components of a machine working together in unison, were capable of actions outweighed by the sum of their parts. In battle each Mingghan was given a specific task or objective which it was expected to fulfill, and succeed it would at any cost, for pride, honour and belief in themselves and their cause would allow no other outcome.
>>34515922XXIII) Silver Cataphracts - Masters of Attrition
>>34515922Steel Marshals - Offensive Siege and EngineeringThey focus on earthworks and close in fighting man to man. Lots of flamers and melee, *relatively* few tanks
>>34515922Terror tactics, like it says in the wiki
>>34515995Farther down, the Mingghan broke down into several Tzuun, or Battalions. Each was a heavily mechanised and reinforced unit comprising three to five mechanized line companies of Legionaries and two to three armour cohorts, with supporting detachments. Below this were the Line Companies and Armour Cohorts, comprising roughly 100 Legionaries or 20-40 armoured vehicles, down through sections and individual squads. Tank detachments in the Legion were comprised of four vehicles, slightly above that of the usual three vehicle sections found in other legions to better absorb losses.Of foremost note within the Mastadontii Legion was the range, number and diversity of the armoured vehicle and artillery support assets fielded by them, with only the armoured formations of the Machine Guard coming close. The Steel Wing Legion had always had an armoured bend to them, and with the mechanically minded Ötztal taking over and renaming them, their specialization in armoured warfare reached new heights. Their armoured component was known to include the full breadth of all general patterns and designs of armour operated across the Imperium by the Legiones Astartes, with tactical emphasis placed on heavy units such as the Land Raider and super-heavy war machines such as the Typhon, Stormblade and especially the vehicle most commonly identified with the legion, the Mastodon heavy transport. Additionally, the employment of very large numbers of "lesser" classes such as the Rhino, Basilisk and Predator was also common. In addition, the Mastadontii were known to operate large numbers of more unusual variant tanks and specialised war machines such as the Cerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer, Whirlwind Scorpius, Spynx Recon Carrier and Thunderstrike Assault Gun. Because of their dedication and emphasis on armoured warfare and their vast armoured reserve, the Mastadontii had the largest armoured reserve and ordnance capacity of any of the Legions of the Great Crusade.
>>34515922War Scribes: Data Processing/Tech Affinity. As a side benefit of knowing where relics are, knowing how to find the long-lost user's manuals, and a native "percussive maintenance" modifier, they also tend to be the Archaeotech Legion. Most of the War Scribes can count on having some piece of tech that's better than most Marines. It might just be a really nice laser sight, it might be a better helmet filter, or for the very best, it might be a superior patter of Terminator armor, perhaps. Kind of like how the Deathwatch has a stockpile of relics, but better, since this is 30k and all the power levels are increased in that era.
>>34515922II) War Scribes - Tactical AnalysisVIII) Children of Armok - JewsXXVII) Stone Men - Appearing out of nowhere to fuck up your day regardless of who you are
>>34516023The legion put great emphasis on repairing and restoring damaged vehicles, and many of the vehicles in the legion were ones that had been damaged in battle many times only to be restored every time. Those vehicles who had survived many great battles, and who had overcome damage and destruction countless times were greatly honoured by the Legion, and adorned with Mastadon Tusks and pelts to honour the machine spirits of such mighty war machines. Mastadontii commanders took all sorts of esoteric concepts from their homeworld up into the void with them after their sudden and enforced leap in technological progress brought about by contact with the Imperium, and ancient ideals of spirits, honour and balance still counted for a great deal within the Legion. This meant others looked down on them as primitive and shamanistic, barely tamed savages who treated their tanks more like armoured steeds then war machines.At the outset of the Hektor Heresy, the Mastadontii Legion is commonly estimated to have had an operational strength in excess of 120,000 Astartes, with a huge operating reserve of wargear and supplies and many tens of thousands of armoured vehicles, alongside a diverse fleet of around a hundred capital vessels of various classes. This placed the Mastadontii within the mid-tier of Space Marine Legion strengths, but in general terms, their resources in armour, wargear, war materiel and supply made them a considerably greater military power in practice than their sheer number would suggest.
I've updated the Golgothos and Entombed entries, and added the Entombed to the anti-psyker party for the council of Nikaea.I still feel like The Entombed need some work though. I'd appreciate criticism/ideas/questions.
>>34515995>>34516023>>34516041Love it. Put it up on the wiki.Are you Tollund's creator, by any chance? If so I did write a story with your character. Read it, I really hope I did the character justice.
Now, as for deer murder:I want the Nova Defenders busted down to Chapter. This means that all the stuff Rook started with - defenders of the lighthouse, not on a Primarch scale, just a good strategist with a bit of wit - is fine. They're probably a successor of the Scions of Europa. Scrap their listed successors or give them to other legions. (Ironsides sounds like a Steel Marshal successor anyway.) This is particularly important as it should end, or at least quiet, a running feud in this project.Barrow Lords down to a Chapter as well, Successors to the Sand Keepers. This gets rid of the "find a niche" problem by piggy-backing them on someone else's concept. Not as big a deal but we need to start drawing a line.
>>34515922Zealots: Pre-Heresy - Medicae and Close Combat.Post-Heresy - Fast Attack and Close Combat.I also had a concept for something.So before the heresy the Zealots had the Rhino/Land Raider Apothecarium, those mobile hospitals they used.So what happened to them?...They fitted them with very, very big vox casters...the tools used inside, corrupted.The more slaaneshi of the marines, drag their enemies into those Rhinos and with those tools, torture them, the voxs blaring out, pointed towards the enemy, to shock the enemy.
>>34515922XX) Iron Rangers - Focuses more on ranged combat more than close combat. I'm thinking more stalker bolters for them rather than actual bolters. Quick to move in, quick to leave.
>>34515922XXVII) Stone Men- Deep Strike/Heavy Bombardment
>>34516100I liked what you did. A lot. I like the comparison between the two Legions. Both are from cold worlds, but one is optomisitic, believing in fighting for the betterment of mankind, the other is pessimisitc, doesn;t believe in the ideals of the Great Crusade. Plus the whole Infantry/Tank difference, the Silver Cataphracts are an infantry attrition force, while the Mastadontii are tank, and try to recover and repair they destroyed tanks.Plus the Mastadontii are spiritual, shaman of the ice (Like the OT Wolves and White Scars), while the Cataphracts seem to scorn spirituality.
>>34516203Also their conflict and relationship resembles this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_SiberiaWith the Mastadontii as the Siberians.
>>34515922X) The Crusaders - Mechanized Warfare (Afrika Korps IN SPAAAAACE)
>>34516203They're secular as hell, but unlike what the Emperor, believe that sorcery can be a tool for humanity. They believe the true goal of the Great Crusade is to protect, preserve, and improve humanity, but they have different ideas of what this means than others. Alexandri is a tired, bitter, angry ruler who wallows in self-pity and vices. His Legion are better than him in temperament, but still have a cold fatalism and dourness to them. In their own eyes, they're ultra-realists.
>>34515922Council of Iron. I like them a lot. Is anyone else going to expand on them more or is no one going to bother.
>>34515710Legion TacticsThe Steel Marshals are a force built to raze enemy strongholds to the ground and crush the heart of their resistance. While other legions crush the enemy by weight of bombardment or armor, or else defeat the fortifications by cautious planning or brutal swiftness, the Marshals wage war through grit and strength of the marines themselves. They specialize in aggressive engineering, using excavators, drills, or their own bare hands to undermine the enemy and bring their walls crashing down. "Friendly" rivals to the Gatekeepers, they were clever in building forward positions, strongpoints and muster grounds from which to prosecute the extensive mining and engineering projects that circumvent enemy defenses and drive the men into the enemy from unexpected angles.Once a means of bypassing the enemy's static defenses has been formed, the Marshals drive the onslaught home with a spearhead of heavily armored infantry. Specialist formations equipped with flamers and area-denial weapons drive the enemy from the breach, clearing the way for their battle-brothers to erupt from the earth and get to grips with their foe. The fighting here is often brutal and close quarters, as the Marshals often emerge within the bastions of the enemy and are forced to fight from room to room with swords and axes as much as they do with gun and flamer.Legion EquipmentTrademark of the Steel Marshal's arsenal is an extensive array of mining engines, geo-augurs, and similar devices. Heavy lift vehicles line the bays of their transport craft, which haul the equipment needed to excavate on a grand scale.The individual marines are heavily armored; the legion boasts a large stockpile of Mk 3 "Iron" power armor. Terminator formations are common, and have developed early-pattern storm-shields. Additionally, the individual marine is quite often armed with incendiary weapons and power weapons are common, even among the rank and file.
>>34516285I think Uriel made some promises about that.
>>34516285Uriel was working on them I think
>>34516274Funny, as the Mastadontii are the Russian Front Tank Battles IN SPAAAAACE (with Inuit/Siberian Natives)
Should I change my guy to Wars of Attrition or something? It still matches his theme of not caring much for his brothers or Astartes and liking war. Maybe he's like Russ and was built to fight other Astartes.
>>34516203Oh yeah, if you have the time, I'd like a story written from the perspective of a Mastadontii about the Cataphract's auxiliaries, the Strelky. For some reason this interests me immensely.
>>34516041Legion Organisation of the Sons of FireAt its creation, the IV Legion, like almost all the Space Marine Legions of the time, followed the standard "Terran Pattern" of organisation as laid out for all the newly created Legions, but even in this earliest period the Legion's procurement and outfitting showed a considerable bias towards direct assault and operations within the close and deadly confines of the kinds of battlefields designated as "Zone Mortalis”, with a speciality on using area denial weapons such as flamers which were most effective in this type of warfare. Once Inferox took command this trend continued, and the Legion's organisational structures were kept largely intact and further streamlined, with its echelons being modified into specialized line infantry formations known as Conflagrations. A Conflagration was a Battalion-level hybrid of tactical/close assault troops for the main part, supported by dedicated heavy assault units such as Terminators and specialised units such as Land Speeder squadrons. This organisation lent itself well to a highly aggressive strategic posture and belligerent tactics involving area denial, burning the enemy out of their fortifications and positions.Area Denial was the main forte of the Sons of Fire, which made them lethal in urban warfare and in Zone Mortalis operations. As time went on this specialization was joined by a growing hunger for fire, a need to inflict pain by fire, to burn, not merely disintegrate. This led to the use of special types of flamer fuel, that which instead of disintegrating the target outright would scorch and burn them, leaving them broken and bleeding and waiting for the kiss of the Sons of Fire’s flaming axes. These bloody practises went unnoticed initially, but as the crusade dragged on more and more noticed the pyromaniac tendencies and hunger for both blood and fire that would doom the Legion.
>>34516352I think your legion should definitely be the one made to fight other legions. They're brutal and they just smash and destroy. Perfect for purging those pesking heretics and all the evidence of their existence.
>>34516392While the Sons of Fire did utilise field armour, support vehicles and transports, these were not given any primacy in the Legion's tactical doctrine. The only exception was flame-weapons tanks such as the Malcador and Predator Infernus, and the Land Raider Redeemer invented by the Sons of Fire as an assault transport that would later be adopted by other Legions.Noteworthy is that the Sons of Fire quickly became associated with the use of alchem and radiation weaponry to a greater extent than any other Legion, especially the use of burning Phosphex which the legion soon specialized in.Though the Great Crusade was launched to conquer worlds and not destroy them, unless there was no alternative, in such warzones where there was no hope for human life or where the only option was complete purgation, the usual caveats and protocols restricting the use of contaminate weapons by the Emperor's command did not often apply and these warzones were often entrusted to the Sons of Fire who took great joy in burning them to the crust.In the aftermath of the betrayal at Istvaan III, the Sons of Fire became ever more insular and uncontrollable on the battlefield as their desire for Fire and Blood took them over, turning them into double-edged sword even to their allies as they burned whole swathes of the battlefield, uncaring who was incinerated. All-out infantry assaults supported by fast moving armour, with the aim of immediately closing into bloody short range and melee and always with the intent to burn the foe from the battlefield became their only goal; inferno for its own sake beyond any strategic objective to the contrary.
>>34516320Hmmm very interesting.
>>34516352That's funny, you're not on the Legions list.Fuck.You're not on the Legions list.Moving to give the Horns of Ruin Legion IX, they seem really inactive.
>>34516436We need a Loyalist Tank Legion to oppose the Mastadontii, which I thought the Machine Guard were.
>>34516456Don't we already have the Steel Marshals and maybe the Crusaders for that?
>>34516436He's around. He's more active than some. I haven't seen the Gorgers guy in some time. Is he still around at all? What was his name again? Nathanog?
>>34516198if it's not obvious, here's a more detailed descriptionPre-Heresy: use superior heavy artillery and fleet support to carve out a drop zone. Then use mass drop pods to deliver heavily armed and armored astartes.Post-Heresy: destroy any space auxiliaries with mass meteor strikes. then deliver heavily armed and armored astartes through massive meteor showers.if necessary, small planetoids may be used as ammunition
>>34516465Marshals are infantry-heavy. They're more a counter to the Bulwark and to a lesser degree the Sons of Fire: lots of fire, close in weapons, and engineering. They rely more on Dreadnoughts and manpower.
>>34516546Got it. However, Thomas was talking about making the Crusaders into a Not!Afrika Korps in the last thread, which should be good enough for Not!Tank Battles of WW2 with the Mastadontii.
>>34516499See, people get into fights with Nathanog over the setting. My guy gets in fights with Aubrey in the setting.
>>34516562I was thinking that we'd have the Not!Tallarn between the Mastadontii and the Machinist Legion/Assorted Others at some point. The biggest Tank battle of the universe.
To even out the Loyalist vs Traitors a bit, should we maybe see about convincing Octullus to making them Renegades rather than jumping sides?
>>34516628By them I mean the Eyes of the Emperor.The words where there in my mind, just not in the post.
>>34516499I remember, thankfully I wasn't around for most of that nastiness nor was I involved for parts I did see. I can certainly attest to his being controversial. >>34516562The Steel Marshalls are siege breakers though. They come in with drilling machines and demolisher cannons and giant FUTURE SIEGE TOWERS waving swords and flamers. That's how I think of them. If that's not what the new author wants to do with them then my apologizes.
The Entombed are no longer defensive specialists who sit on their planet and do nothing. They serve as auxiliaries to other legions as they don't have the numbers to fight wars themselves. They are still extremely good at defending entrenched positions, and are often called upon to hold a position, freeing up their allies to go on the offensive. However, they are often used as steel rain shock troops, using drop pods to deploy Terminators, Dreadnoughts, and Centurions to critical battlefield positions, breaking up the enemy. They are unable to bring their famous Ossuary Dreadnoughts to such maneuvers, however, as Ossuaries are too bulky to fit in a drop pod.
>>34516628>>34516658If we adopt my kill-Bambi plan above and swap out the Machine Guard for the Horns of Ruin, we're at 12 Loyalists, 12 Renegades (including Uriel), and the Eyes.
>>34516727>kill bambi planwhat?
>>34516675Sorry, Marshals was mainly confusion on my part. But the Crusaders thing is at >>34515108
>>34515922The Thunder Kings are generalists, and will commit to any campaign. However, their expertise lies primarily in protracted conflicts. I suppose you could put attrition as their specialization, if you had to put something.
>>34516675Dropping the towers; those are a pretty terrible idea in the face of demolisher cannons and artillery. The drills, digging and siegebreaking? That's sticking.
>>34516727Fair enough>>34516761He wants to axe the Novas and Barrow LordsPersonally I think we could make a new XIIIth Legion to fit the bill but what ever.
>>34516727Wait so my guy would be loyalist? Well that would be hilarious. The asshole who turns out to not be evil but still a huge asshole.
>>34516727IIRC, we have 27 Legions. I guess there could be three "neutral" Legions. It could be 3 neutrals who forged independent human empires (and were killed of course, no independent empires in 40k)Any/all of them could be Alpha Legion style deals where no one's sure what's going on.Any/all of them could have been II/XI Legionned, where something went bad wrong and they were killed by another Primarch and his legion. This could let us set up a stronger Russ analogue as well.
>>34516799I like it, sureplus it plays into the fact that the scions are technologically/strategically superior
>>34516810No, you're still a Traitor, we just need to even out the teams a bit.
>>34516800OOH OOH CAN I MAKE A CHAPTER!
>>34516727Perfect. That shakes out incredibly well because the Machine Guard have been inactive for some time.>>34516761Removing all the people who haven't posted in some time and have little fluff
Legions still to be defined:I) Knights of Justice - III) Silver Spears - VII) Scions of Europa -VIII) Children of Armok -IX) Machine Guard - XV) Barrow Lords -XVIII) Sand Keepers -XIX) Eyes of the Emperor -XXI) Council of Iron - XXV) Scale Bearers -
>>34516675Yes, I was tired of being in the middle of it all.Come watcher, we should hatch various plans, involving sorcerous xenos and such things.
>>34516830I don't think we should have 27 legions. 25 sounds like a natural stopping point. The Russ analogue is actually Gaspard, but he kills off the troubling Primarchs post-Heresy.
>>34516879I agree with 25 Legions.
>>3451687925 is an uneven number, unless one of the 25 was given the Legion II/XI treatment.
>>34516876Can I destroy your planet? Or does the Knights of Justice guy have dibs on that? My character does hate yours. Left the council of Nikaea early, where I think your guy hung around? Maybe he found a human-xenos hybrid and used in as an excuse to Exterminatus your world
>>34516926I'd say Knights of Justice.
>>34516906I have said this a few times recent, but sure, let's do it again. The Eyes get strong-armed into helping the Renegades, then get skittish and try to make amends with the Loyalists, then get raked over the coals and semi-destroyed.
>>3451687925's good with me. I just thought we had already created more Legions than that.
>>34516936The Eyes were at Isstvan V.
>>34515922VIII) Children of Armok - Manipulation, politics, espionage, and highly informed ambushes/rapid surprise tactical assaults.We're pretty much just flexible generalists with very good intel on our targets. We tend to avoid big pitched battles where we can. >>34516030fucking conspiracy theories everywhere!Also to the Anon doing the Nikaea Psyker list - The Council of Iron are against Psykers, I figure we have a lot of them, and not so many anti-psykers. The council will be witch hunters of a sort. >>34516164brutal - I like it!>>34516274Also liking the new Afrika corps direction!>>34516285yeah I'm working on them to fill a role we haven't really used yet - anti-magic. (not they're not all nulls or some bs either)>>34516294I like what you're doing with them Wayward = carry on good sir!>>34516418The battle of Kursk in Space! Or various other battles - El Alamein/Tobruk?>>34516610see above - a giant tank battle IN SPAACEE?We need a space Kursk - biggest tank battle in history out on the Russian Steppes. >>34516863the council of Iron will still be around. I have what I think is a good concept for them = will get it posted tomorrow - first need a sleep
>>34516926Knights of Justice already did it.We kinda hate them more than you.I had the concept you meet Aubrey after the event and decided to mock him face to face.This would turn into this universes Wolf and the Lion.After a while into the fist fight, Kranios would likely laugh mockingly at him, only to get a rageful hook, Aubrey stalking off.This would cause a rivalry intensified later on.
>>34516294Hey, I remember you writing up some stuff for the Hammers of Brennus before. I notice that you've never actually committed it to writing; are you planning on adding it to the wiki eventually?
>>34516964Yes. That's where they get strong-armed by Hektor.>>34516957One of them (the Nova Defenders) is a constant source of strife. The Barrow Lords are only at brain-storming stage. Machine Guards are abandoned. That's where I want to make the cut.
I want to finish this. So I need a final Traitor Legion with Sigil.Someone please deliver?
>>34516983Okay, yeah that's great.
>>34516906>>34516936technically, the Children are on neither side/ or both depending on your interpretation - we fit the bill for that middle of the road legion to a t.
>>34517013So, Machine Guards is out, because no one speaks for them. That's 26.Who's the other one you want to cut though? Barrow Lords and Nova Defenders are both active, quality or lack thereof aside.
>>34517019The Ram and the Zealot?
>>34517040All three get cut. We actually have 28 Legions, but Kranios didn't get put in the Legion number table.
>>34516975Thanks, I've been struggling to find an actual real life basis for the Crusaders, but the Afrika Korps seemed like the closest thing I could find. And a big tank battle would be pretty awesome.
>>34517014This I guess? My guys probably shot up a few of the traitors too, knowing my Primarch.
>>34517088Well, if we can get consensus from, let's say 6 other Primarchs, I guess we can cut both. I'm always hesitant to cut people in projects like this, as it's such a potentially touchy and subjective subject.
>>34517144Awesome.So the pair of legions challenge each other in combat.
I'm back, what the hell happened?
Have the Knights of Justice had any work done on them lately?
>>34517182Does your guy fall to Khorne at the end if everything, or only a few of his companies?
>>34517172Yeah, well, I'm not saying that we should turf the guys out altogether, but Rook North and the Nova Defenders were conceived of as a Chapter and make more sense there. The Barrow Lords could be worked in as Successors, too.>>34517220I'm ruining everyone's fun to cut the Legions down to 25 and have roughly even sides in the Heresy.
>>34516294Legion Equipment Cont'dUnique to the Steel Marshals is the Castra pattern dreadnought, which eschews long ranged heavy firepower for close in heavy weaponry. Sporting a breacher siege drill for its main weapon with underslung heavy flamer, it is meant to grind through earth, stone, rockcrete and plasteel to immolate the foe within their fortifications. It would pave the way for future developments that lead to the "Ironclad" dreadnought.Legion DoctrineIn the wake of Roman Albrechts arrival, the Steel Marshals adopted a strong, unified culture espousing the virtues of the crusade and the strength of man. This code quickly evolved into a fully fledged philosophy that permeated the culture of the legion. It espouses unwavering resolve, peerless courage, and above all the endless strength of man. Though bordering on a religious fervor, this ideal within the legion remained detached from superstition and mysticism. Instead, it promotes ritual to reaffirm the virtues of reason, and to prove the endurance and willpower of the individual marine through trials of stamina and tests of strength.The shift became most marked in the prosecution of war; where the Marauders would raze the foe to the ground and move on, the Marshals burn the heart from the enemy and offer the defeated the chance to join the imperium as proven survivors and adherents to the doctrine of the Retainers Creed. In this respect, new recruits would in many cases be drawn from the best and hardiest of the natives of worlds brought into the fold; they would be claimed by the Marshals to add new blood to the legion and strengthen the belief that to be man is to be ascendant in the galaxy.
So is my legion taking the Machine Guards place on the legion chart or he still around?
>>34517115Right, I want everyone's opinion on this now. If you all like it, then Isstvan V, the Drop Site Massacre will be done, and I'll put it up on the Wiki, and we'll know who fought in the battle where the Dreams of the Emperor were destroyed, and Hektor's Heresy kicked off."War is the crucible in which we burn. In the fires of battle is the past consumed and the future born on tongues of flame. No greater fire has there been in our times than the three bloody hours of the Dropsite Massacre."
>>34515922Eyes - Ranged warfare/Artillery specialist s
>>34517172I do agree with Arelex - we always seem to get an anon popping in wanting to help out/join. It'd be handy if we had some slots to throw their way.And as far as the Barrow Lords go - I know we are struggling to find a niche for them, but I do really like their notCultural stuff - very different. I think we need to make a big list of different types of tactical/strategic ethos - I'll begin on that tomorrow along with finishing off my primarch/legions fluff so i can get on with the Council Of Iron and Bulwark Primarch sections. But with that list - I won't think of everything - so I'll post up what I can come up with, and you guys can throw other stuff in - I'm sure we can find **something**Anyway - long day. I need sleep = see you all in the morrow friends. Good work /tg/, :)
>>34517228Bohemond is around but doesn't get a lot of shit done. If you were keen you could crawl through the old threads (search "Knights of Justice" for his posts) and piece together what he's aiming at.
>>34517014The fuck am I looking at here?
>>34516190Yo. Assault force. Deep strike. Guerilla warfare. Strategic assets.
>>34517256Only a few Companies.Which are turned into metalic-daemon centaur astartes.Aubrey keeps himself in all the gods favour, undivided, but allows his men to follow gods as they please, so long as the glory flows to the gods.
>>34517307>It'd be handy if we had some slots to throw their way.Successors. The line has to be drawn somewhere, or we will end up with 2000 Legions.
>>34517297This works out pretty well with my fluff. The three groups of Entombed on the left all get bombarded by nearby Life Bringers, leaving the group on the right as the only surviving Entombed.
>>34517318You can see where your Legion was at various points during the battle. At least that's my intention.
>>34517010I wasn't wholly sure if I should. I'm somewhat hesitant to tinker with somebody else's thing.That, and I actually have no idea what I'm doing with wiki pages. I've never worked on one before.>>34516975I'm drawing a bit of Salamanders for their ethos to explain how they A: remain loyal, and B: are in the anti-psyker camp. So far, so good.
>>34515870Hey guys, have we decided wether or not the loyalists know of the Eyes betrayal, and if so, if there was a trial
>>34517405There was a trial, it didnt end well for you.
>>34517376I try to take what everyone says into consideration. I hope I did well in your case.The Knights and Zealots are positioned do the great duel can happen there. The Eyes are at the back so they can cut and run when they see the corruption. That sort of thing.
>>34517360D owe have enough guys going Khornate already. Thinking maybe my guy should, since you soured him to Psykers and he keeps throwing his men into brutal wars.
>>34517443We have two Khorne Legions already, the Sons of Fire and Gorgers. Khorne is the big winner of this Heresy.
>>34517405You need to decide on these things. But note that secret treachery is already kinda Uriel's thing (core concept) so trying to do it too ends up with "I have the concept of having many concepts".I favour execution for Octullus and the Eyes absorbed by Void Angels, only to be refounded under a different name later on.
>>34517468Okay forget it then, My guy's will stay undivided or just die by the end of everything.
Also, for those who don't know/aren't tracking, I'm dropping the whole "tech obsessed" vibe I've been doing. Which means an almost complete rewrite. And while the corrupted AI fucking with our brains is where our fall started, we need something to push him over the edge. All depending on timeline.I'm thinking Hektor calls him in for a "chat."Voidwatcher shows him basically what Horus was shown in his "visions" about the future of the Empire:Dystopia, ruin, people all fucked up because everything sucks, etc.Merrill finally goes fuck that and signs up. sound good?
>>34517373>>34517278If the Nova Defenders really *were* originally a chapter, and you can honestly tell me that you want them gone for reasons other than the drama they caused, then I will support cutting them. I do like the Barrow Lords though, it's a kickass name. If they're really the "commerce" Legion or whatever, it'd be interesting if their Legion took a different route than others.What if the Barrow Lords were split much more intensely than other Legions, down to the Squad level, and they were spread across the entire Imperium as sort of a Coast Guard Legion? They would be expressely forbidden from gathering in groups larger than 50 or so, but they'd still technically have the prestige of calling themselves a Legion.Seem cool?
>>34517504You could use the corrupt AI brain implants thing without the Legion being tech obsessed.
>>34517539We need the AI to fuck with the Emperor's Webway Project, otherwise the Emperor wpould just fuck over the Traitors like there's no tomorrow.Why has everyone here forgotten the Emperor in all this?
>>34517497Have him mock the thought of praising only khorne.Something along the lines of him having enough power and prowess as it is.
>>34517517>If the Nova Defenders really *were* originally a chapterRook told us in an early thread (I want to say 3?) that he basically took his homebrew Chapter and dumped it here as a Legion.>you can honestly tell me that you want them gone for reasons other than the dramaThey still don't have a concept. The last time Rook was in, he was proposing strategist with a dick sense of humour.>Barrow LordsWhy do they need to be a Legion? Why did the Emperor create the Ultimate Warrior-Merchant?
>>34517569Because the Emperor doesn't have an anon pushing him and his fluff is pretty well thought out.
>>34517435Was there? Is it in the google doc? I can't seem to find it in the 1d4chan page.If not, we should hold the trial in thread OR we could say it happened behind closed doors and Octullus was not seen after wards ever again, locked in the deepest vaults of terra
>>34517598Commerce is a big part of any country or empire. It might have been useful to have an overseer of the merchant class. I don't have a particularly strong desire to keep them, mind you, I'm mostly just speaking out on behalf of the fact that the Barrow Lord guy has done a decent bit of work thus far. Dumping the AWOL guy and the Defenders is ok with me. I'd prefer the removal of the Barrow Lords to have a bit more consensus, though.
>>34517632>we should hold the trial in threadNo. God no. Nikaea in thread was a disaster. Just decide what happens to your guy.
>>34517496I agree, a trial should be in place. But i am not sure about the refounding, especially if you are doing it, no offense. Why would they give the suspicious legion who us already the largest even more marines under your command
>>34517632>>34517669If people want to writefag about what their Primarch's speech was at Nikaea, that's fine. Doing more than that seems excessive and unneccesary.
>>34517632Not really no, but there was talk from Gaspard about having Octullus killed off and the Legion absorbed by one of the others.
>>34517539Oh, I was still going to do that.All the traitors were tainted long before they really fell and declared themselves, I was going to use the implant as the original taint.I'm talking what pushed me over the ledge to declare for Hektor. The final straw, etc.>>34517569And did we ever decide what it was that fucked with the project? I remember suggesting we were doing some experiment that may have fucked shit up, but I don't remember it really going anywhere.But I do agree. We need that bit.Or, we might not. It was still in it's early development stages when Magnus fucked it up, could have taken YEARS to make it work right, we could just have it "in development."
>>34517669>Nikaea in thread was a disasterWell I enjoyed it.
>>34517675Because at the end of the Heresy, Gaspard has the men and guns to make himself Emperor. Or Regent. Or whatever. Accepting his settlement on the Eyes is a pretty small price to have him use the Void Angels to hunt down the Traitors instead.
>>34517730I had fun.
I would like to work out my Primarch's back story, but I'll be heading off soon. I'll be back on tomorrow. If anyone wants to help me with my Primarch, please let me know and we'll work it out tomorrow.
>>34517669 maybe we could just have a vote and a blurb of the primarchs speech ? That way we can have some interactivity.
>>34517707If it wasn't fucked, then the Emperor would have flown out and smashed the traitors single-handedly.For the Heresy to succeed, the Emperor has to be trapped beneath the Imperial Palace fighting a never-ending tide of Daemons.
>>34517730>>34517749Nothing came out of it other than a show of hands.
>>34517389Feel free, man. I've got work throughout the week, so it's not like I'm always around to tinker stuff. I'll be habitually adding to the Thunder Kings Legion entry and elaborating on their culture/tactics, but I don't mind others using them for their own purposes (within reason).
>>34517707Why not have one of the Psychic Legions fuck it up, either accidentally or on purpose in the case of the Augurs. A vision told them to do something.
>>34517767Sometimes that is all you need friend Lumey.
>>34517675I say Penitent crusade into the Eye of Terror where in every Traitor tears you a new one. Maybe Slaanesh makes you watch her orgies for the rest of eternity or Tzeencth uses your eyes as a pair of dice?
>>34517768Well, now that I've got the Steel Marshals to work on, I'm going to step back from the 2nd founding and splinter group stuff.Though, hands down I plan to make minis of some of these as part of my deathwatch counts-as sternguard squad
>>34517767Doesn't matter. Empy comes down and declares it a moot point and bans them all, anyways.>>34517759>>34517783Agreed. The AI felt more important to dealing with the virus that fucked Mars up, anyways (to me at least).
>>34517783But we already knew what the outcome of the Council would be, because it's up to the Emprah. So if it was going to be a BIG thing for a Legion, then the anon pushing them needed to explain what position they took and why as part of their story.Looking at the wiki, only one person did that.
>>34517832I don't really see it that way. There are more Pro-Pskyers than only three Legions. The Council of Nikaea didn't even see that many Primarchs show up, or even Legions being represented. So the outcome might be different in this timeline because of these changed circumstances.
>>34517832Well, yeah, but it was only really a pressing point for a couple of Primarchs, really.Even mine would have wanted them around, just having safeguards to keep them under control.
>>34517862Yeah, because you fixed it. Sorry, dude, but you did. You repeatedly said, HEY HEY GUYS WHERE ARE YOU AT NIKAEA?!! So of course people answered. But if they really cared, it'd be on the wiki.So as far as I can tell, only Gaspard actually showed up.
>>34517898Golgothos actively opposed psykers. Shit, he probably even got violent about it. He was definitely there.
>>34517898To be fair, a LOT of people either don't want to put stuff on the wiki, or are too lazy to do so. Not that I'm condoning it, but don't misrepresent things.
>>34517898If what is on the wiki is an indication of what people cared, then nobody gave a shit about any of this.
>>34517937>>34517898Some people just want to have a solid idea about what they're doing before updating the wiki...
>>34518006That's fine. I'm saying that I just wanted to get some of the events organized across the timezones, and apparently to Lumey I am the devil because of this.
>>34517936The problem is - and I'm not picking on Golgothos, but because it's here right now: >>34517927 comes after the guy spent a lot of time updating the wiki. All the things that were really important and defining went in.Not Nikaea.
>>34518061Firstly, I don't have anything against you and I don't think you did it on purpose. But what you've ended up doing is presenting Nikaea as some sort of compulsory class for Primarchs.
>>34518102I don't know what this post means
>>34518102Overall, the outcome at Nikea was intensely important to the Empire and how the HH managed to go down.The problem is, at the smaller level, personally with the primarchs, Nikea itself held little value to some, immense value to others. It depends on the individual.
>>34518159Today, you came on and spent a lot of time updating Golgothos' information in the wiki.His potential activity Nikaea didn't occur to you. I don't think that's a personal failing, just a sign that it's not essential to a lot of the Primarchs' stories.
Not really related to much of the present discussion, but a Color Concept for a Haruspex Legionnaire .The red of the right gauntlet symbolizes the companies position as their Primarch's Red Right Hand and their tendency to be thrown in to cause the most terror, as well as their use in decapitation strikes on an enemy force. The white pauldron insets used in place of the Legion's traditional black are intended to be splashed with the blood of an opponent, allowing the Legionnaire and his brothers an oportunity to discern the future for the ichor lining it, the same applies to the white of the Astartes' weapons though for personal insight. The laurel and helmet stripe signify this Brother as a highly regarded Veteran.
>>34517297Nathanog got first blood I'm sure.
>>34518229I don't see any Nikaea section other than a simple list, and he's on there. I definitely agree with you that everybody shouldn't be there, just the ones who feel strongly about it.
>>34515870I exist! Works a bitch
>>34518260Nathanog was probably already eating a guy before the battle even started.
>>34518157Well, there's no reason the Emperor couldn't have made it a bigger deal. Nikaea *could* easily have been mandatory, or perhaps the Primarchs simply wanted to be there and have their voices heard more. No reason they couldn't have all been in attendance, I know Arelex would have felt very, very strongly about banning psykers.
>>34518286Nathanog's men probably opened the betrayal of the second wave.
>>34518292Remember, some Legions sent a representative at the very least.
>>34518275The list is really misleading in that regard, due to the way the Council was presented. You could have included Nikaea in Golgothos' section, though.
>>34517297I can see The Gorgers and The Life Bringers did some work. I will have to remember that, seems like an interesting development.Life Bringers are Nurgle right? Nurgle and Khorne works!
>>34518279FUCKDoes this mean I have to give the marshals back now?
>>34518320I'm still unsure about The Entombed and Psykers. Originally, before this was an AU thing, he was betrayed by the Thousand Sons, and therefor hated psykers, and didn't abide them in his army. For a while he was even a Null, and so his geneseed couldn't produce psykers. Now they just have a sort of Black Templars "PSYKERS R BAD MKAY?" thing going, which doesn't even really fit with them thematically in any significant way.
>>34518358>>34518279You guys gotta talk it out. It's working the same concept so you should be OK to fuse it and maybe farm some stuff out to Successors.
>>34518321Sons of Fire are also Khorne, and yes Life Bringers are Nurgle. One Khorne Legion in the Original Traitors, and a second Khorne Legion in the Second Wave.
>>34518319I'll say Merrill was there.A) because I did speak out there yesterday, andB) because he might have wanted to actually be there and hear the arguments presented.
>>34517517Oh I can help with that!So, Rook pretty much told us in previous threads that the Nova Defenders are based on his own Chapter army.They are essentially just Lighthouse defenders, they guard a Lighthouse in the middle of nowhere, but that Lighthouse has [cue mysterious whatever].ANDThe Primarch is a blatant self-insert because of the nature of the first thread "Make a Primarch out of yourself"-kinda. That's he was all about bein weak, reading books, being isolated,But thanks to PRIMARCH, BOOM he is the super-bro of everyone and everyone loves him despite him being the worst Primarch possible and letting his Legion do the work for him.
>>34518286Nathanog is always eating some guy.The problem is, he eats them fast...
>>34518358Ill be home later but I like what you've written
>>34518369... that was not the impression I got from >>34517927
>>34518320Yo Gaspard, what is the reason Gaspard would want the Eyes? Also, when he refounds them, would he tell them of their past and resestalish their traditions?
>>34518358Shits pretty good actually. Did you change the Primarchs death at the Crucible? And muh siege towers.
>>34515922Can we have an update on this?Just to see what legion need to be shaped up yet.
>>34518507Yeah, but he doesn't really have a reason to be that way anymore, after the rewrites I mentioned
>>34518525OkI) Knights of Justice - II) War Scribes - Tactical Analysis /Tech AffinityIII) Silver Spears - IV) Sons of Fire – Purgation/Area DenialV) Void Angels – Terror TacticsVI) The Entombed - Auxiliary Shock TroopsVII) Scions of Europa -VIII) Children of Armok – Manipulation, politics, espionage, and highly informed ambushes/rapid surprise tactical assaults.IX) Horns of Ruin - X) The Crusaders - Mechanized WarfareXI) Wolves of Dawn/Heralds of Hektor – Shock AssaultXII) Life Bringers – Biological Warfare?XIII) Nova Defenders – Ranged Warfare/Plasma WeaponryXIV) Black Augurs - PsykerXV) Barrow Lords -XVI) Eternal Zealots - Fast Attack, Medicae and Close CombatXVII) Gorgers – Bloody Close AssaultsXVIII) Sand Keepers -XIX) Eyes of the Emperor – Ranged warfare/Artillery SpecialistsXX) Iron Rangers – Assault force. Deep strike. Guerilla warfare. Strategic AssetsXXI) Council of Iron - XXII) Thunder Kings – Protracted Conflicts/AttritionXXIII) Silver Cataphracts - Masters of AttritionXXIV) Mastodontii – Armoured WarfareXXV) Scale Bearers - XXVI) Steel Marshalls - Offensive Siege and EngineeringXXVII) Stone Men – Deep Strike/Heavy Bombardment
>>34518553Shaping up nicely! Thanks!
>>34518245I love it. The one thing though is the eyes are supposed to be white, not purple. The whole aesthetic is great though. I really really like the explanation for the white shoulderpads. After the Heresy the Haruspex would pretty quickly have broken off into a Warband so if we ever get done that they're all yours. Or of course you can make your own or make other peoples characters. You're just doing this so awesomely I kinda want you to stick around with me and my legion.
>>34518522Haven't gotten that far, but I wasn't planning to. I was actually thinking of having the crucible rock them pretty hard, considering they'd be fighting the only force that would be prepared to thwart their methods.As for the siege towers, I dunno man. All it takes is one vindicator...
>>34518553Wars of Attrition
>>34518516He doesn't want them. As I said before, he's helping in the most Gaspard way possible.>when he refounds them, would he tell them of their past and resestalish their traditions?Sort-of. Gaspard wouldn't found a Successor Chapter on the basis that they had screwed up. The Eyes would probably get some kind of weird revised history where Octullus was Gaspard's twin and died all too early and oh so sad and that's why they were in the one Legion. Because that's a heritage that they could be proud of.
>>34515922Jungle Beastmasters.Also, I'm back!
>>34518553I think we have a conflict between Steel Marshalls and Horns of Ruin.Horns of Ruin are supposedly about messy, overkill, siege offense and it kinda fit the theme.Steel Marshalls as Combat Engineers could free up the trait.I proposeIX) DemolitionXXVI) Steel Marshalls - Engineering, Techmarines.
>>34518684Can we make your guys mobile warfare, with some interest in bikes? It's not as though the White Scars ride horses.
>>34518736I was thinking he could be about Shock Troops, since he is essentially about dragons.
>>34518736Well, horses aren't strong enough to carry Space Marines. Giant dinosaurs, on the other hand... with that said, you DO still have a valid point.>>34518776This could also be a thing.
>>34518721That was kinda the plan. Horns of Ruin use heavy bombardment and overwhelming force, while the Steel Marshals are focused more on undermining the defenses and getting to close grips with the enemy.
>>34518602Ahhh, i see. If you want, you could write a blurb about how that went down on yours and mines pages.
>>34518601>>34518809>>34518577Also, guys, I was hoping to crush some hopes and dreams in this thread with >>34516116 and giving the Machine Guards slot to the Horns of Ruin. General view is that we need at least a decent slate of participants to embark on that course. (There's some more discussion going down from there where people question my motives and I give some explanation.)So what do you guys think? Kill bambi?
I still feel like The Entombed are kinda shit. Someone help me make them less shit.
>>34518937You might have painted yourself into a corner with them. The concept is good but could be overblown - you can grieve and still have a future, right?
>>34518862If you're happy with it, I can work that up. Have table-top RP later today and deer to kill right now, so it won't happen for a little while.
>>34518968Not really. As-is, I doubt they'll make it to the 41st millenium. Only 30% of them are left after Istvaan, and they're literally incapable of recruiting.
>>34518998Then they don't make it. Have them die out post-heresy. Nothing says a 1st founding legion must survive.That, or maybe they fall to chaos well after the heresy has ended in a last ditch bid to live.
>>34517730I enjoyed it also.Fuck you Kranios, go fuck a mountain!
>>34518998In that case, you either need to undoom them or give them a glorious death. The former would mean some changes to the story OR another Legion donating geneseed.
>>34518914I'll go with whatever the majority says,
>>34519038Or both? Maybe The Entombed are gone and someone else (Knights Draconian?) founds a Successor for guarding their cemetery world?
I have updated my Primarch on 1d4chanhttp://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_/tg/_Heresy#Aubrey_The_Grey.2C_Primarch_of_The_Eternal_Zealots
>>34519021>>34519038How big is a Legion?
>>34519150How many Legions do we have statted up? The Mastadontii are 120,000 wile the Sons of Fire are 150,000.
It had been a long hunt. But it was necessary. As usual, Rogerius had to slow down for the other hunters. They needed to rest, too. But he didn't blame them. But this hunt was important. Three days ago, the Great Bird had been spotted heading in this direction. It was the third such animal seen in as many moons. The hunt was on, and Rogerius had volunteered, lest the beast be hostile. He let the men sit and drink from their skins, they had refilled them this morning, and would reach another stream to refill again before this time next day. After a short rest, they picked back up and continued through the forest._______________________________________The next day, they saw its trail. It was a good thing Rogerius had volunteered. It left a trail of burned trees and bush through the forest, as wide as two men stood tall. With a trail like that, any child could track it. They erred on the side of caution, though, staying within the safety of the bush, but within sight of the trail.Soon, they came upon a clearing, burned into the ground. The Great Bird sat there, glittering in the sun, while several men dressed in stiff, golden clothes, holding bizarre spears surrounded it. They were large. Each almost as tall as Rogerius, and he was the tallest man of the tribes. The tribesmen fanned out within the bush, waiting for one of the signals. And watched.
>>34519183So there are 30,000 Entombed remaining after the Heresy. Not actually that bad...
>>34519219...wow. I got rekd.
>>34519285All the Loyal Legions at Isstvan V suffered 70-90% Casualties. Of course you got rekd.
>>34518577Oh Im gonna stick around with the Augurs as my primaries most assuredly. Still I might want to do a loyalist Chapter as well to even things out. Also thank you, I would like very much the chance to take over the Haruspex.>>34518937 I can give them a look and maybe help a bit if you want>>34519150Depends on the LegionPictured, Haruspex Legionnaire, this Astartes has a variation of the red hand motif.
>>34519265That's actually ridiculous considering how they ALL wear Terminator armor. Or has that changed?
>>34519338>I can give them a look and maybe help a bit if you wantPlease
>>34519265That's assuming they didn't do any more fighting after Isstvan V.
>>34519370They do. Perhaps more should die. I had 70% of them dying, but I was thinking in terms of Chapter-scale numbers, not Legion.
>>34519370If they're ALL in terminator plate, given how rare Terminator Plate was (No Legion had more then a few thousand suits), their numbers would have to be small.
>>34519370>>34519421Well, not ALL of them. Every two squads of terminators is supported by either a squad of Centurions, a Dreadnought, or a squad of Tactical Marines and a Thunderfire
>>34519454Still sounds like reinforced Chapter scale
>>34519373So, a quick thought for you as I examine this.Perhaps make it so its not quite as hard for them to recuperate losses, maybe it just takes longer for them because of a mutation in the geneseed. Also, perhaps bust out some Iron Hands things and have them use alot of augments.
>>34519473You are the best drawfag I have ever seen here on /tg/. You seriously are as close to the actual FW gal as humanly possible. Your talents are wasted on us, but thank you anyway. Who's next for you?
>>34519473...Well, I did say I wanted to kill bambi, so I still want to bust him down to Successor.
So with all the talk of numbers, what would be a reasonable amount of Cataphracts to be around?Would twice the normal amount be too much? It'd be more because there are multiple fronts the Cataphracts fight on, such as expanding Alexandri's fiefdom or helping the Great Crusade.Follow-up question: Could some companies of the Cataphracts be present for the defense of the Sol System, or be fighting elsewhere than the Crucible? I'm just brainstorming.>>34519473Feel like taking on Alexandri, drawfag?>Regal best describes the towering progenitor of the Silver Cataphracts. A huge, flowing brown beard that goes down the front of Alexandri's power armour is a common sight to be seen even when he is on the battlefield. Having spent most of his formative years in regular clothing, Alexandri prefers when not on the Crusade to be wearing something other than his power armor. Despite commonly holding a smile and good humor on his face, Alexandri appears to have weathered the years less than handily when compared to his brothers. Dark circles have burrowed in deep into his eye sockets and many lines have formed on his face. Even specks of grey and white have touched his beard. All this only adds to his appearance as the iron-fisted ruler of Rosskar.
>>34519515>Also, perhaps bust out some Iron Hands things and have them use alot of augments.I don't want them to be a tech-focused legion.
>>34519473Do me!Harsh looking face, Short black beard, blad head and a massive jagged scar starting in the middle of one of his eyebrows and going all along the one side of his head.
>>34519473Aw hell. Such good work, but for a Legion that from the general opinion polls, we're going to probably have to cut, unless people have changed their minds from earlier.
>>34519336I never even made it there, that's the thing.
>>34519542Fair enough. Maybe cloning then, pull a Corax and experiment with the Geneseed?
>>34519588I think you should just change the numbers. Sounds like you had Chapter scale in mind at the start.
>>34519591Well, to put it in gameplay terms, 2+ Armour save and 4+ FNP are nothing to scoff at
>>34519526Given their attritional warfare, something like 150-160,000 would fit pretty well. Above strength, but not excessively so.Also this:Documentary evidence attests that the Silver Cataphracts Legion gene-seed showed an above-average adaptability and rates of implant rejection were notably low, particularly in comparison with difficulties in large scale implantation encountered with other Progenoid types, which meant that despire constant warfare and attrition, their numbers remained high as it was to prove of the highest quality as far as ease of implantation went.
>>34519588You were hammered in space in the Isstvan System. Still counts though. Yours was another of the legions who suffered at Isstavan, even if not on the ground.
>>34519635Not sure about going exactly that far now.That would make me Not-Ultras in terms of geneseed capability. Maybe the gene-seed is lacking a few organs, or maybe alot, maybe even creating inferior if more numerous Marines?
>>34519679>inferior if more numerous MarinesThat triggers some people.
>>34519679Actually that comes from canon material on the Iron Warriors, which is how they were able to sustain their strength despite the number of Sieges they did. Which fits the Cataphracts to a T. Maybe their Gene-Seed misses something, but it's the best for replacing losses.
>>34519633I was more meaning to help out with their back story and them trying to make up for their lack replacements.Longer time for the geneseed to mature both in the Astartes it is harvested from and for it to take in the new recruits, over failure to extract. Because all the extraction is would be the Apothecary removing them.
>>34519233>forgot to post pic last postAs they waited, the men seemed to not do much. They stood, sometimes circling the beast. Sometimes they would fiddle with... things... Sometimes, men would enter and exit from the bird...no... that was not right... Rogerius was confused. Eventually, he decided to address them. Sometimes, talking worked better than violence. As he stood and entered the clearing, they lowered their spears in his direction. Their stance was... odd... He raised his hands to demonstrate he meant no harm, as they advanced."Hello."With that, they stopped. They looked, quizzically at him. As a curiosity."Hello," he said again, "I am-""State your purpose."Rogerius indicated in the direction of the...bird..."We came hunting...that..."More quizzical looks."Have you come to pay homage to The Emperor?" asked one.More appeared from the belly of the beast, all taking the same stance as the first."What is The Emperor?"Before he could reply, a twig snapped in the bush.The men spurred into action. All of them faster than any other man on Profi Tiroedd, but not Rogerius. As flames exploded from their spears, he charged the closest one, planting his spear firmly through the man's neck. They had not even brought their spears to bear on him as he through a knife through the gaps in another's headdress, and charged a third. He heard a man cry "CLEANSE THEM!" as he rolled behind his target, planting one knife behind the knee. It shattered against the....not clothes... so he tripped the man, and drove his third knife into the face.Pain exploded against his shoulder, and he looked to see a crater as wide as his fist. Drawing his tomahawk, he charged his assailant, knocking him to the ground, and slamming the axe into his chest, where it shattered. His sight went dim and ears rang as a blow landed against his temple. The last thing he remembered before darkness was a voice, one he did not know, yet pulled at his memory, calling "STOP."
>>34519695...really?>>34519716Ah, alright then. But remember the Iron Warriors became heretical and suffered alot of geneseed mutation.
>>34519233>>34519746Anyone, does this sound good?
>>34519721Well, the easier it is for them to get recruits, the less reasonable it is for them all to be terminators.I know I asked for help and then am refusing to budge on anything, sorry.
>>34519783>posting in two threads>have to remove/add name every time I post in eithersuffering
>>34519770Only after they went into the Eye. And your Legion is basically the Iron Warriors meets Russia. You've said so yourself.
>>34519805Guess you're right.
>>34519662True.>>34519622I was thinking 10,000 to start with.
>>34519783No worries, its your Legion and I am just throwing out suggestions for you to mull over. The maturing rate of the Geneseed could still be the problem for you.Perhaps rather than all Terminators, your Legion through a deal with the Admech has obtained a sort of inferior Terminator Armor, so its pretty much Artificer Armor, and then your actual Terminators are like the Grey Knight Paladins.
Whelp, if Roman pops back in tomorrow I should be able to hammer out what idea I had and hand it all back off to him. Until then, its bed time for me.
>>34519770Really. There was a gigantic shitfest over it with regards to the Nova Defenders.The prolific geneseed thing makes more sense of Gaspard having Alexandri killed, too.
>>34519858In all honesty, I thought that was about the size of a Legion, too.
>>34518986Id be glad to see it done
>>34519473Damn drawfag, you continue to impress!At this rate we may have to chain you into the drawfag dungeons for all eternity!hire you as the resident drawfag.I hope Aubrey is on the list somewhere!Thankfully [If everyone actually wrote it down on the page]We have appearance descriptions on the 1d4chan page!http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_/tg/_Heresy#Aubrey_The_Grey.2C_Primarch_of_The_Eternal_ZealotsOh my, I seem to have linked my own.Such an accident, I assure you.
>>34519823Embrace it, there's nothing wrong with cribbing from the canon Legions. The Mastadontii have parts of the Iron Warriors, Iron Hands, Space Wolves and White Scars in them. Iron Warrior and Hand Tanks meets Space Wolf and White Scar tribalism and spirituality.Plus, who doesn't want a loyal Russian Iron Warrior analogue on their side?
>>34519882With the other Legions having lost their Primarchs and with the corruption that would soon take place like before finding them, it would only improve the numbers of the Cataphracts in comparison to the other remaining Legions thus giving Alexandri ever increasing power...Lumey really is a scheming cunt.>>34519917https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK2lNuiD7gM
>>34519897>>34519858Well, the Emperor's Children were never much larger than 30k or so, IIRC. And the Luna Wolves and Ultramarines I think got close to 250k marines at their peak, too. So there's a very broad range of Legion sizes, though I think 10k is almost too small to be called a Legion.
>>34519945It becomes even more funny when the Mastadontii are specifically Kursk and other Russian Front Tank Battle IN SPAAACE, but with the Russians replaced with Inuit/Siberians.Those two legions really are perfect foes.
>>34519233>>34519746So, because no one's saying anything, I'm assuming this is absolutely perfect, and doesn't need to get changed at all?
>>34519872Well, as I envisioned it, there would only about ~300 left after Istvaan. There's only a 20% success rate in geneseed recovery. I don't think that's too unreasonable, but it does raise the question of how they'll survive. Their extremely low rate of casualties contributes, but 10 thousand years is a long time. Even if they're usually fighting battles with zero casualties, They only need to lose a few every now and then to fall apart.Also the recovery chance is in the housing mechanism, not the actual gene seed. It collapses on recovery, destroying the gene seed. Golgothos was offered a recovered STC by Hektor which could fix the flaw and let them replenish their numbers, all they had to do was turn traitor, but Golgothos crushed it and told Hektor to go fuck himself.
>>34519958Canon Legion Sizes to help everyone out. Ultramarines - 250,000 Iron Warriors - 150,000 to 180,000 Sons of Horus - 130,000 to 170,000 World Eaters - 150,000 Word Bearers - 100,000 to 150,000 Blood Angels - 120,000 Alpha Legion - 90,000 to 130,000 Night Lords - 90,000 to 120,000 Iron Hands - 113,000 Emperor's Children - 110,000 Imperial Fists - 100,000 - (The Imperial Fists also had the single largest fleet in the Imperium, consisting of 1500+ vessels) Death Guard - 95,000 Salamanders - 89,000 Raven Guard - 80,000 Thousand Sons - 10,000
>>34520047>same number as Thousand Sons due to lack of high-population recruiting worldsNo wonder the Heresy hit me so hard.
>>34520047The smallest of those is 10,000. 70% losses means 3,000. 1/3rd of those are Dreadnoughts, Centurions, or tac marines.Is 2000 Terminators unreasonable?
>>34520047Was anything given to the SW, or did Russ just tell everybody to go fuck themselves and get out of his goddamn business?
>>34520090Space Wolves and Dark Angels haven't got numbers yet.
>>34520047Alright, so the official numbers of the Cataphracts would be reported at 150,000 Marines.But the actual numbers would be closer to 190,000 or 210,000 Marines.
>>34520082Most Legions would have had about that much, so it's not unreasonable.Also, by Centurions do you mean the Line officers of 30k, or the Derpknights of 40k?
>>34520145derpknights, heavily armored devestators
>>34520090No numbers, but I'd bet a dollar for every marine Russ had that he, as usual, gave no shits about records.
>>34520120Alright, cool. I do remember it saying that the Wolves were one of the smaller legions (funny they're now one of the largest chapters), but was curious if a number had been put out.tl;dr Russ said fuck you, Johnson said "WHY DO YOU NEED TO SEE MY BOOKS?"
>>34520128The Lower end of the scale, but yeah.Now, which Legion is the biggest? Who has the Ultra 250,000+ Numbers?
>>34520024Well crushing an STC doesnt seem like a good idea. Also if its a problem with the extractor, why is your Legion the only one that has the problem?>>34520082Depends, because if your are going with your Legion having more than that before the betrayal then yes, that is.
>>34520154>>34520154You really want the worst fucking thing about 40k Marines in 30k?Have some of these as well while you're at it.
>>34520175>Well crushing an STC doesnt seem like a good idea.Golgothos is not known for having good ideas. He's brutally and stupidly stubborn, and has no social skills, since he spent 30 years in total isolation. Also, Post-Isvaan V, He'd fucking glass Terra itself if he thought Johannes was on it. Thinking about consequences is not his strength.
>>34520243Forgot pic.I love 30k because it has cool shit, and no dumb shit like the Derpknight.
>>34520243Well what are 30k Centurions?
>>34520243I dont see what all the hate is for the Centurions, they arent that bad.>>34520251Ok then.
>>34520261Fuck that shit, dude.
>>34520294I think when the word Centurion comes up in 30k, it's a rank, not an item or armor.
>>34520371well... I kinda like 40k centurions
>>34520170Void Angels are the biggest at the end of the Heresy, but I don't think that would have been true beforehand. Scions are our go-to Ultramarines stand-in.
>>34520294Captains. Like Praetors are the 30k Chapter Masters.This should help everyone with Legion organization.
>>34519945>Lumey really is a scheming cunt.Not sure I'd even give him scheming. The guy completely screws up before the Heresy and does a pretty bad job during. Killing Alexandri stops Lumey from being seen as too heroic when he turns back from the Rubicon.
>>34520385Centurions are great in concept. As in, something to fill a gap between dreads and devs. however, the execution...
>>34520489They look sort of goofy but at least passible. And yeah, in this context I picked them for their concept: heavily armored devestators.
>>34520511Still, the bulk of your Legion should still be foot soldiers. Maybe in Mk III Plate, but no Legion is all Termies or all devs or all anything really.
>>34520537Ahem, Raven Wing
>>34520537This one is. Power Armour marines are tough, but not that tough, and a single casualty on a report is too much for The Entombed.
>>34520557That is a Company not Legion>>34520568Like I suggested, perhaps their basic Marines have a stop gap warplate that is between Power Armor and Terminator Armor.Then you have Terminators, and Special Terminators ala Paladins. So essentially you'd be Grey Knights with out psychic powers
>>34520568Honestly, I'm not on a kill everyone streak today, but... how about revisiting the "they're all fucking dead" option? That avoids too many questions about what their organisation was like - yeah, there was a time when people only saw The Entombed as Terminators and Dreadnoughts, but maybe that's just because their heavy elements were distinctive/distinguished?
>>34520557One Part of a Legion that also had other forces. The Dark Angles had the Deathwing, Dreadwing, Stormwing, Ravenwing and Ironwing. Still didn't make them unbalaced.>>34520568No Legion can be so specialized. At least half your Legion would have to be foot troops. Heavy Support units need regular troops as backup of they've be outpaced and destroyed. You're legion is too inflexible as it stands.
>>34520537To a point, yes, but pre-codex legions basically did a lot of "whatever the hell we want." It was up to the individual Primarchs to design legion makeup as they saw fit, which led to some being organized in extremely different ways...
>>34520611Im gonna agree, thats what I was trying to say earlier with making it something to do with it just taking longer, so you still have Marines just never as many as the others.
>>34520615The Entombed don't fight on their own anymore. They supplement other legions as auxiliaries, either helping to fortify positions or dropping drop pods full of terminators and dreads on the enemy.The only sort of war they'd be able to fight on their own would be a static defense, as they lack any sort of real mobility.
>>34520627Yeah, but still, there wasn't enough of the specialist equipment to go around. Most Legions were lucky if they had 1000 Terminator suits. Rare as fuck.I see the Entombed as having a large number of Dreads, Terminator Plated troops and the like, but also lots of MK III Troops to support them.>>34520668Pre-Dropsite Massacre. Post, they're so decimated that they can fit all the sits they have left.
>>34520568>>34520668Bonus round on "they're dead": The Entombed go down fighting the Necrons, with War Scribes (or WS Successors) as a potential relief force that was never called in.
>>34520690Oh, yeah, Pre Istvaan they had plenty of tacs, vehicles, etc
>>34520668Ok, let's make it easier. Everyone, how does your Legions fit into >>34520434 ?That'll help make things easier to understand.
>>34520690>>34520668Y'all can have my Terminators. Merrill would take one look at them and say "how are we supposed to run in that? Or hide? Or perform just about any of our standard actions? We'll keep those stormbolters, though. Those would be nice."
>>34520702Please no. They work as a small remnant legion who provides a small company to other legions when they need additional terminators/dreads as shock troops.
>>34520728I'm not sure that will make things easier right now. Add it to the google doc and the wiki Discussion page and let people think it over.
>>34520765Well, they're your guys, so I'm not going to force it on you. There's this overwhelming stubbornness about them that should infuse the whole story, start to finish - I just can't avoid the thought that you should add in a conclusive finish rather than have them withering away to nothing.Other options... by M41, "The Entombed" is just this one guy.
>>34520765>>34520871With the Entombed's issues in making new Marines I doubt they would be around by M41
>>34515922Agressive, in your face air-cav. If you gave frenzon addicted mongols fighter-jets, this is what you'd get. Also conduct void operations.Air drop tanks for fire support, set up ambushes, but in general, they do bloody close combat, kill everything in sight, and then disappear back into the void.They use terror tactics, but not to the same degree as the Void Angels.
I'm reborn!! Yes. Indeed.Anyway, where are we on this >>34518553? Any additions?Soon we gonna have to root some "inconsistencies".Also, some Legions might get killed, fair warning.
>>34520996No, not my Air Cav idea. Seriously though glad someone is using something like it.
>>34521029Latest UpdateLegion Warfare specializationI) Knights of Justice - II) War Scribes - Tactical Analysis /Tech AffinityIII) Silver Spears - IV) Sons of Fire – Purgation/Area DenialV) Void Angels – Terror TacticsVI) The Entombed - Auxiliary Shock TroopsVII) Scions of Europa -VIII) Children of Armok – Manipulation, politics, espionage, and highly informed ambushes/rapid surprise tactical assaultsIX) Horns of Ruin - DemolitionX) The Crusaders - Mechanized WarfareXI) Wolves of Dawn/Heralds of Hektor – Shock AssaultXII) Life Bringers – Biological Warfare?XIII) Nova Defenders – Ranged Warfare/Plasma WeaponryXIV) Black Augurs - PsykerXV) Barrow Lords – Air CavalryXVI) Eternal Zealots - Fast Attack, Medicae and Close CombatXVII) Gorgers – Bloody Close AssaultsXVIII) Sand Keepers -XIX) Eyes of the Emperor – Ranged warfare/Artillery SpecialistsXX) Iron Rangers – Assault force. Deep strike. Guerilla warfare. Strategic AssetsXXI) Council of Iron - XXII) Thunder Kings – Protracted Conflicts/AttritionXXIII) Silver Cataphracts - Masters of AttritionXXIV) Mastodontii – Armoured WarfareXXV) Scale Bearers – Jungle BeastmastersXXVI) Steel Marshalls – Engineering, Techmarines.XXVII) Stone Men – Deep Strike/Heavy Bombardment
>>34520871>>34520914A sufficiently dramatic last stand could be interesting, I suppose.Alternatively, they could secretly fall to malal, who turns them into not-rubric-marine skeletons locked in their armour, and gives them the ability to fight the Life Bringers for all eternity.
FYI, we are archived.
>>34521093If there wasnt already a Legion of the Damned like Legion, I'd suggest that
>>34521093If you do kill them off, I still think you should develop a War Scribes Successor - "Knights Repentant" to watch over Sepulchra for all eternity.
Does anyone know who the drawfag is drawing? I want to go to bed, but I don't want to miss it on the offhand chance he's doing mine.
>>34520996I think you should be aware that we've been discussing cutting the Barrow Lords down to a Chapter because they don't seem to have a distinct concept of their own. While the tactics don't provide that, the fact that you had to mention another Legion in that description is pretty telling.
>>34521162No idea. I asked him though, so I'd just get to rest. I'll be on and I'll save it for you if he goes to bed. Sleep well.
>>34521162Don't worry, if he shows up, we'll drool all over his stuff for you.
>>34521141I like that. If The Entombed are all dead, their name takes on a whole new meaning.
>>34521162I'm currently working on Alexandri
>>34521265Golgothos drawfaggery would be dope.
>>34521206>>34521234Any way to be able to update the archive of this thread, btw?
>>34521265This is only image I have that comes close to my excitement.
>>34521265Awesome. Who will be after that? I saw you had requests for Otztal and Nathanog as well.
>>34521080Superb. We are getting shit done guys!Now it's a bit late for me so I will leave the pruning for tomorrow on my side.Proposed Changes though:- Remove "Attrition" from the Thunder Kings, conflicts with the Silver Whatever, if the Thunder Kings can justify having the concept we can add it back.- Remove "Assault Force" from Iron Rangers. Merril, feel free to go at me if it's a problem.- You can remove the "?" from the Life Bringers.- Change "Master of Attrition" to "Attrition" for the Silver Whatever.
>>34521234>>34521290This is me every time he posts new work...
Ok, so if The Entombed are to die in a glorious last stand, who should it be against, why, when, and how?Should any other Legions be fighting with them? I like the idea of a war scribes successor chapter who choose to guard the bodies of The Entombed on sepulchra for all time.
>>34521187He could lose the terror tactics, because atleast two other Legions have that, and focus on Air Cav operations, specializing in the tactical flexibility offered by the use of their gunships, who also will use tanks on occasion when the need arises.He could also ad Void Warfare specialists to show their ability in using their Gunships in Ship to Ship boarding actions as well as in taking out both Orbital and Deep Space Stations.
>>34521298After him I don't know, are those two still active? if not I guess it would be time to start a new order of things
>>34521321Yeah, we really didn't have a whole lot of assault for the Traitors at the time. What do we have aside from you Khorne fellas for that slot?Also, lots of Deep Striking Jump Packs kind of needs assault, you know?
>>34521355Well, I'll also throw my name in the ring, for whenever you've got time. I'd love to see how you portray Arelex.
>>34521355They are. I am the Otztal Mastadontii Guy, and Nathanog is >>34521321Oztal is the Inuit Tank Commander, and Nathaog is the hunter Metalocalypse-looking guy.Also, why have you not drawn any Primarchs in Terminator Plate yet? They're all in Powered armour thus far.
>>34521355As I said, a drawing of Golgothos' Ossuary dread would be dope
>>34521337The Gorgers would want nothing with all of you,you have no meat and stink of death!
>>34521355Put me in the queue, too.
>>34521387Hey Oztal, I never got a reply about that writefaggotry I proposed to you. Do you wanna do it or?
>>34521387I didn't paid much attention to that, I'll check which have terminator plate from now on
>>34521418Remind me, what writefaggotry? I can get started on that tonight.
>>34521337Take it forward to the post-Heresy era have them rush off to fight against a major Chaos incursion in which the Lifebringers are prominent. That's the sort of thing that would draw all The Entombed into battle.
>>34521355> mfw I gave details for my primarch three threads ago.It's ok, I can wait...
>>34521424I don't think anyone's ever specified who's wearing what armour. I know Inferox because the guy who did him statted him up, and he wears burning powered armour. And Otztal is a Tanker, so Terminator Plate is too bulky for him when riding in a Land Raider/Spartan.
>>34521424I'd like to request The Bloodseer if I may. I mean, he's not a Primarch, but I'd like to fill more out on the wiki.: Though he could once be considered a fairly handsome man, his face and body have been wracked by two centuries of warfare. His skin, much like that of his gene sire is a pale white where in some places the dark veins are able to be seen underneath. Unlike many of his brothers he does not adorn himself in arcane tattoos, choosing instead to have his armor marked by the runes. His once handsome face is now scared, with the right portion of it bearing the brunt of the damage after a round from a Sniper, a shot that would have left him dead had he not been wearing his helmet. His face is clean shaven, and his Black hair kept short to better accommodate his helm. Again, like his gene sire, he has blue eyes, or rather a blue eye and a cybernetic one.
>>34521436is Life-bringers guy around?
>>34521373So you deep-strike assault marines.Because you deep-strike without assaulting, everything can be deep-striked, it's more about the fact that you can deploy anything anywhere (and especially behind enemy lines).
>>34521447Don't Worry, I want to see Nathanog done so we can have him and Inferox face off.
>>34521456Not sure, but at some point in the M32s or so the Lifebringers must get up to No Good.
>>34521429A story done from the Mastadontii perspective, either from their human support or their Legionnaires, or both.The focus of the story is examining the Cataphracts as they campaign with them(probably the same Expedition Fleet as Rosean, maybe this takes place before that incident). I'd like to know what they'd say about the Cataphracts and the Rosskan Strelky. Also, you have complete creative control. Anything you 'add' to the Cata's or the Strelky I'll incoporate.
>>34521476Khorne's Hunger vs Khorne's burning rage.Nothing is left standing within five sectors.
>>34521187>>34521348Agreed with Bloodseer.The only reason I mentioned the Void Angels was to make it clear that I wasn't stealing your shtick.And indeed, void warfare ops is very much part of it.Again, void warfare/air cav, aggressive tactics designed to draw out an enemy and then strike hard at the exposed point.When this is not possible, they execute carefully timed boarding actions, freely using Librarians and teleportation, designed to put their forces as deep in as possible, as other forces breach, catching the enemy in a pincer.
>>34521447Aw shit now I feel terrible.Here, have this mate.
>>34521503I'll get onto it. Expect it next thread or so.
>>34521474Alright, yeah, I'm going to be a stickler on this one, because I've spent a shitton of time redoing my guys to best fit everything, we can keep the assault. You guys do front line assault, I do ambushes and assassinations. We're fine that way. You don't need to change them.
>>34521499Alright, tomorrow I'll do some writefaggotry about a major Lifebringer incursion and the fall of The Entombed.What about Golgothos? Should he still be alive somewhere, chasing Johannes in the Eye of Terror, now even more furious than before?Or should he and Johannes both be present at the battle, and Golgothos finally gets his revenge before dying himself?
>>34521529... that will fucking do.
>>34521436Hey Gaspard, did you ever write up the stuff about the Eyes being refounded?
>>34521476Did you see the writefaggotry I put up about the two at the Ullanor Triumph?If not I can put it on the gdoc, was kinda too lazy to do it.
>>34521337Perhaps its more a slow death, where knowing they are a lost cause, they travel looking for other lost causes to assist. Slowly one by one they die off, until all there is is one last Squad of Terminators and their Undertaker. The look over the tactical dispay showing the Lifebringers and the besieged Guardsmen in their Teleporter room at the carnage below, with a grin the Undertaker looks at his brothers, "One more fight," he starts, donning his helm, "One last fight and then we can got home to our Brothers and our Primarch." Those few Brothers standing beside him nod their heads in silent agreement.
>>34521513I think you're missing the point. At the moment, I feel very strongly that you don't have a distinctive niche for the Legion that still makes them Space Marines. (So not economics.) Can you make the case for them as a tight concept that isn't already covered? If not, maybe they make more sense as a Successor Chapter.(You're not being singled out, by the way. The Nova Defenders and Machine Guard are on the block, too.)
>>34521581I love it, and I love the rivalry between them, which will only escalate as both compete for Khorne's Favour.Also you showed why Hektor is Warmaster. Poor Hektor hasn't been given much in the spotlight, which is why I love how you did him justicve
>>34521564No. In my defence, that was only agreed on two hours ago.
>>34521601Ah, my wording didnt come out rightSlowly one by one they die off, until all there is is one last Squad of Terminators and their Undertaker. The look over the tactical dispay, showing the Lifebringers and the besieged Guardsmen, in their Teleporter room. A final look at the carnage below, and with a somber grin the Undertaker looks at his brothers, "One more fight," he starts, donning his helm, "One last fight and then we can got home to our Brothers and our Primarch." Those few Brothers standing beside him nod their heads in silent agreement.
>>34521545Alright, you can tell the Updater to add it back next update. Just thought that Deep-Strike was enough (and frankly it is) of a concept, that's all.I have to say though, Assault, Deep Strike, Guerrila, and Strategic are a bit of a lot.But hey we can discuss all that tomorrow.
>>34521669I see where you're going with that, now. That whole bit was posted earlier.Alright, I'm basically a Guerilla/assassination force that specializes in assault, not doing all that shit all the time. I.e., I do all that behind enemy lines stuff, utilizing mostly assault forces. I'll pull up the bit on the wiki for you.
>>34521620Nice to hear!We do need the Hector guy on more often,If anything so I can convince him to drop the freaking "k" in that name.
>>34521669That bit was an irritated response because someone posted anonymously that I was a dedicated sniper unit or something like that.
>>34521646Its cool man. Its just that as soon as we get my legion wrapped up, we can focus on another. It seems as though the Entombed are also getting their stories end.
>>34521767Assassination/Guerrila seems like a pretty strong theme, especially since you are named the "Rangers".Deep-Striking and Assault is only going to dissolve that. Especially when Deep-Striking could fit someone like the Thunder Kings or some "Thunder/Wrath"-kind of Legion.
>>34521529Does Alexandri wear terminator armor or regular power armor?
>>34521607I don't take it personally. I was under the impression that white scars/carcharodons style fast attack was something we needed and I've always been behind the idea of an air dropped heavy tank/high intensity force. Again, idea is that the swoop in in their planes, blow shit up, hop out, charge like madmen into bloody combat, and then vanish as suddenly.They also fight boarding actions, all very fleet based.As a result, they end up designing many of the star ships as well. It'd be kind of what you'd get if the white scars did void operations instead of the fists.
>>34521839I see where you're going, I'm kind of more going into Night Lords but without doing random terror attacks. We stick to purely strategic targets.
>>34521868Regular power armor.Here is a reference for the beard, but if you end up using it as a reference for the face please make the nose more narrower than this.
>>34521885That's a solid theme. As you can see nobody else has claimed this expertise yet, so you will be the one contributing that during the Heresy.
>>34521941also how "old" is he? from what I gather he has aged pretty bad but does he look like a 50-60 year old or like grandpa marine?
>>34521949No, dude, I get you're working to make things clearer, but that bit has been solid since Heresy 2. Hell, we got rid of the tech obsession earlier today because it seemed to be pulling the Legion in too many directions. I've actually got a rather singular, defined role, in a sense.
>>34521870A ship/space warfare-based legion won't work.Space Marines are land forces first. Space Warfare expertise only come to them as secondary traits (Dorn having the biggest fleet, but that because he was ordonnances-freak, Magnus cause you can't Navigator better than him).You can't have a Legion focus on that.
>>34521983About 50-60. He probably looks the oldest out of all the Primarchs, but it isn't really wisdom evident in his face. Its exhaustion.
>>34521870The Scale Bearers are probably being grown into the guys "in the saddle", and we have a lot of material on them already to support that.
>>34521870>>34522011I'll agree with you on the fast attack bit, but Nathanog is right about the Space Warfare part. If you want to do a brutal delivery via Storm Raven/Thunderhawk/whatever of bikes and other awesomeness, that's cool. But you're seeming to pull in a few too many directions here.
>>34521885>without doing random terror attacks
>>34522011His Legion doesn't focus solely on that, that is simply one of the things that they are good at. And if Void Actions aren't good enough for a Legion to be based around, why is one of the Imperial Fist specialties 'Conquest and Forced Compliance of Void-fairing Civilizations?They are Highly Mobile Infantry first and foremost, and Void Fighters secondly.
>>34522004Well you won't need to add "Strategic Assets" since it will be assumed you are not into random killing.Can we agree on "Assault force. Deep Strike/Assassination/Guerilla"? Even though I still think having Deep Striking, Assault, Assassination, and Guerilla is a bit too much.
>>34522113Maybe use "small unit tactics" for the Iron Rangers? With that description and their name people will head for the right conclusions
>>34522072lol, paraphrasing. we sow confusion and disorder amongst the ranks, but don't rely on pure terror like certain Canon groups do...>>34522113And you get that guerilla operations are to take out strategic assets, assassinate key leaders, and, in 40k lore and current scenarios involve Deep Striking, or its equivalent, right?
>>34522104Because it's a secondary specialty.Not their main quality.
>>34522135That's in the wiki.The Iron Rangers are pragmatists. They don't need to use a direct and costly assault when a sneaky assassination would get the job done. They are taught to work alone or in small groups, often using guerrilla tactics, or supplementing other forces. Utilizing these strategies, they have outfought much larger well equipped foes.
>>34522011Dude, the word "Marine" means someone who's doing naval things. Quit being so narrow minded. Battle Barges are a huge deal, and it's not unreasonable that a Legion might specialize in it. Even some canon Chapters specialize in it. http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Marines_ErrantAnd let's not forget, a speciality doesn't mean that's *all they ever do*. Even the World Eaters knew how to fire bolters and attack ships.
>>34521080>VI) The Entombed - Auxiliary Shock TroopsNow that I look at it, this isn't a very good summary of The Entombed
>>34522135>>34522113Also in the wiki, to go into more detail. All of this has literally been in there since Heresy 2 and 3, and gone over, and you are the only ones to have any issues with anything there.Before falling to Chaos, the Iron Rangers preferred diplomacy over force. When force was required, they would often merely launch small strikes against individual leaders that opposed them, to reduce collateral damage and make transitions more or less peaceful. When possible, they would use methods harder to trace back to themselves (poison, utilizing local weaponry to make it look like an in-house job). When they were required to be fielded in larger campaigns, they rarely attacked in full. They had a threefold plan for working in Campaigns. Their Tactical Squads (and some Captains/Command Squads) would split into small teams to bolster and assist whatever allied regular human forces were available, in the form of additional training, better equipment, strategic/tactical advisors, additional, specialized firepower, and the morale boost of fighting next to Space Marines. Their scouts would deploy to set up Observation Posts and various Rally Points and Forward Operating Bases, whilst their Jetbikes, Skimmers, Assault Marines, and Air Power would be delivering hit-and-run missions against enemy Supply and Communications lines, Supply/Equipment Depots/Caches, destroying key strategic and defensive assets, and assassinations of High Value Leaders. As a result, most campaigns the credit went to whatever forces they were allied with, which left them seeming to be the weakest of the Legions, rather than being credited as one of the most subtle and inspired strategic thinkers.
>>34522159Guerilla as seen by many is the capacity to oppose a bigger force using a way smaller one. Doesn't involve assassination automatically.>>34522206As Gaspard said himself so eloquently,That's GW itself have tried to push the "Astartes" term instead of Space Marines, because they are no sot marines in the end...
>>34522232I used your description. Zone Mortalis Heavy Assault Troops or something similar?
>>34522011What >>34522104 says.>>34522065I'm just thinking of void warfare as a natural extension of air-cav in the M30. After all, all those planes have to come from somewhere and since many of the planes are boarding craft anyways, they'd tend to apply similar tactics. Less bikes, more planes.Again, the Fists are all about boarding actions, so it's not like we don't have it in 40k.>>34522053Scale Bearers are beast-masters.Barrow Lords are air-cav. Closest they get to a saddle is a jet-bike.
>>34522170Like it is for his Legion, a secondary specialty.Air-Mobile Infantry, Gunship Assaults, Drop-pods, Void Actions. Their ground actions occasionally supported by tanks. All in all they sound like a very viable and tactically flexible force to me.
>>34522247Just because GW forgot what the word marine means doesn't mean we have to.
>>34522252>Zone MortalisWhat does this mean? Also in general they don't do close combat, too risky.
>>34522244Looks like I got the "small unit" thing from the authoritative source!
>>34522277Exactly!Thank you Bloodseer.
>>34522322You are welcome.
>>34522279Oh now you are just playing dirty.>>34522244All of this screams "Assassination/Guerrilla", and as I said this is a more than solid theme.But Assault and Deep-Striking? Not so much, I don't see anything here that would say you use Deep-Striking exclusively better than any other legion, plus Assault is fundamentally opposed to Guerrilla.I don't even know why you need those two, you would be more than fine with "Assassination/Guerrila", those are pretty big deal in 40k.
>>34522277Except that's your Legion (the one you've politely not tried to ram into an already crowded line-up), not the Barrow Lords. Refer to>>34521870>They also fight boarding actions, all very fleet based.>As a result, they end up designing many of the star ships as well.>>34522262The Scale Bearers are probably going to bikes, see >>34518809 and>>34518736. Their beast master thing is a cool background for the Primarch, but it's too low-tech for the Imperium.
>>34522295Some of the most savage arenas of combat conceivable are the battlefields the Codex Tactica Imperialis refers to as ‘Zone Mortalis’—the fatal ground. Such zones, be they the contested decks of a void warship, tangled mine works, lightless under-hives, the prison-vaults of sundered fortress citadels, labyrinthine industrial sewer systems and sacred catacombs, all have a confluence of factors in common such as close confinement, limited access for attack or escape routes, as well as treacherous environments, which make them murderous venues for warfare. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/z/ZM6thUpdate.pdfI use 30k terms extensively, as I own all the FW HH Books and base all my work upon them. I thought the others here would know of them as well. If not, I can share them to ease of knowledge.
>>34522311Alright, sorry for being a bit harsh, then, just kind of aggravated, because I have sat down, on multiple occasions, to hammer things out and make my guys a better fit, and that was an early focus, with smaller changes happening over the next 9 threads. I've been all for working with people and letting things be changed, Nathanog just based it on a quick few comments I tossed out earlier. And he was here earlier today when I sat down have my unit picked apart, and said nothing.
>>34522390Yes, it is an idea that I had, but clearly the two of us share it. Maybe I am trying to defend it more because it is an idea I share, but isn't that the point of this? To come together over something and make it happen?
>>34522414No problem, explaining things is usually helpful.
>>34522411That is the exact opposite of what The Entombed do. Erebus would see a report like that and not even consider engaging.
>>34522437Why? Your Legion is all Termies, Mk III And Dreads. That is a Zone Mortalis force to a T.
>>34522452But they can't afford casualties. Single digit casualties are excessive for them.
>>34522386Assassination/Guerilla is the theme.Assault and Deep-Striking is the method. Not the theme. Key difference.
>>34522277Now then, we can sum it toAirborne Deployments?
>>34522425If you want air-cav to happen, it definitely can. I mean, my position isn't "Death to the Barrow Lords", it's to bust them down to Chapter. (Probably a mystical spacefaring chapter, at that.) That would leave your air-cav guys as a separate thing.
>>34522390I'd asked if it was alright and I was invited in to take the Ardent Legion spot, #15. At the time there was no fast attack defined.So far as the bit about star ship design, I can axe it if it's really that big a deal, but I'm thinking of it like the shipyards of Inwit or how Manus made the Sicaran.Also, the legion doesn't do bikes. They do planes.
>>34522473Yeah, which is why you have the best equipment. You have a Legion which because it is all Terminators, Dreads and MK III Suits is slow as fuck and unsuited to offensive operations in the open, but perfectly optimised for close assaults in confined positions, and because of their armour can minimise casualties. Zone Mortalis may be devastating for other Legions, but yours can survive it with fewer casualties due to the nature of their warfare.On the ground they'd be useless for anything other then static defense or Urban Warfare with that numbers handicap.Speaking of, what are their numbers before Isstvan? You said 40,000 or so last I saw.
>>34522510So are you ditching all the merchant stuff, the void mysticism, the psyker thing - is that all gone? For the third time, what's their core concept?
>>34522484If it suits you, Airborne Deployments/Void Actions? Provide Sargon is happy with that, it is his Legion after all.>>34522485Oh I know it can and that you aren't trying to kill them off entirely, I'm certain it would likely come up in two Chapters if we went that direction. I was just saying that as far as Legions go in having defined specialties, they have one.
>>34522480So you don't need Assault and Deep-Striking in the Legion -Role- List.I could add "Ambushs, Adaptive Tactics" to the Gorgers but that's not the core role/theme of the Legion. Their role is pure Frontline Assault.
>>34522566>I was just saying that as far as Legions go in having defined specialties, they have one.But (as I said before) that was more symptomatic than the problem itself. The issue is that they do not have an identifiable core concept. (The last draft was White Scars in SPAAACE.)
>>34522484Yeah.>>34522485Aren't the Black Augurs psychic based?Besides, it's not like there's not overlap in the canon legions. We've got a lot of legions here, it's only natural for some redundancy. What will set us apart is what we do when we flesh them out.
>>34522581Then we're arguing the same point.
>>34522581Speaking of, what is the material Strength of the Gorgers Pre-Heresy? How many Astartes can they field?
>>34522551Before Isstvan (Is it Isstvan or Istvaan?) 10,000. After, 3,000.Before Istvaan they weren't all-terminators, though they still had proportionally more than other legions.
>>34522566"Void Actions" is useless here.>>34522610So it's ok if the entry in the Role List for the Iron Rangers is "Assassination/Guerrilla"?
>>34522608If you're saying that the Barrow Lords are redundant, I completely agree. That's why I think you can make them a Chapter without losing that much. It's tough, but you're the new guy, there's not much in the wiki, we're still trying to figure out what the fuck the Barrow Lords are about - cutting other legions would be more painful.But if you insist they're an awesome Legion who have to stay, I will have to find another Loyalist Legion to remove so we can get down to 25 and roughly even numbers in the Heresy. Might have to be the Void Angels, just so nobody can veto me.
>>34522551Also, I see your point, though I'm not sure about the practicality of demolisher cannons in those conditions.
>>34522581Here's how that wound up there. First, someone put this down:>>34516190I just saw that, not knowing what it was for, and responded with:>>34517324And someone just copy/pasted it to this list.
>>34522560Core concept is Airborne Deployments/Void Actions.Void mysticism and psyker stuff and even the merchant stuff is secondary. Sorry about the confusion.The merchant stuff is cultural background and may pop up if you guys think it works.Void mysticism and psykers are chapter cult.Core concept is Airborne Deployments/Void Actions.They're not White Scars in Spaaaaace because of their secondary traits which make them differ in attitude and method, but they are in many ways similar, even as you might say the Void Angels are the love child of the Wolves and the Night Lords. There's more to them than that, but one could say it.>>34522566Yeah, that'll work.
>>34522638The number would be pretty high, since the Homeworld is friendly to life if not too friendly, and they know their role and the importance of numbers in winning the fight.I'd say 150,000+ easily, now which number exactly, not sure.
>>34522654Asymmetrical Warfare sums it up quite nicely, actually.
Back, whats up dudes
>>34522654I dont see how if its the Legion Specialties, but ok.>>34522603>>34522677Perhaps we give him a little more time to narrow down a core concept before giving the ax? It's still early on in the project, we can always do some work, realize its not going right and then cut things to Chapters and what not then.
>>34521080Well, I had the Knights down as Air Assault in the original thread ( see http://archive.moe/tg/thread/34414189/#34429291 ) but it looks like someone else has claimed that...
>>34522726Welcome back, Darius! Not entirely sure, been AFK myself.
>>34522753Ah well, it wasn't listed on the wiki, so I assumed there was no such Legion.
>>34522726>>34522769Shit's kinda whack. Trying to narrow down the list, make sure everybody has specific roles.Certain people were going way too Mary Sue.
>>34522722"Assassination/Guerrilla" sounds cooler.
>>34522677Oh, I'd thought we were going up to 30 Legions.Again, core concept airborne deployment/void actions.See>>34522712Also, I'd written stuff in the google doc, just transferred it over to the wiki. It's a bit of a mess, and not all of it fits the narrowing.
>>34522797Alright, fair enough....
>>34522726Just in time.We need the Battlefield role for your Legion.
Ok, so a slightly more accurate legion tactics would be>VI) The Entombed - Zone Mortalis Heavy Infantrythough that doesn't really imply the use of dreadnoughts or apothecaries
>>34522712>They're not White Scars in SpaaaaaceDidn't you say (>>34521870, less than an hour ago)>It'd be kind of what you'd get if the white scars did void operations instead of the fists.The concept here is really fluid and I do not think we lose anything to cut it.>>34522736>Perhaps we give him a little more time to narrow down a core concept before giving the ax? Because that's cruel?
>>34522726I'm wrecking peoples' hopes and dreams so that we can have just 25 legions and even sides in the Heresy. Currently the proposal is to send the Machine Guard, Nova Defenders, and Barrow Lords down to Chapter status.
>>34522843Going back to earlier posts, dreads and apothecaries are part of your overall fluff thematic, as opposed to your battlefield role. You achieve your role using this stuff, but it's not your defining characteristic in a battle.
>>34522826Drop it to "Airbone Deployment"We are trying to get the Battlefield Role first and foremost.
>>34522845And just deciding that 'You have nothing to offer, so we aren't going to give a a chance to create you legion cause you can't do it in five minutes.' Is any less so?At least if its fleshed out as a Legion, before its cut as a Legion, it could easily be transferred to being a chapter.
>>34522896Alright, I'll stick with that then.
>>34522845Sigh. I'm was using an analogy.Again, one could call the Void Angels the love child of the Space Wolves and the Night Lords.They're different in how they operate, but yes, you can say the core concept is White Scars in Spaaace just like you can say that the Void Angels are Space Wolves x Night Lords.
>>34522883Again, weren't we going to go up to 30 Legions a little while ago?
Hello everyone. I had real life stuff to attend to. What's happened in my absence?
>>34522753Well, that's timely. You should get more of your stuff in the wiki, though.>>34522913The longer a legion is around, the more work the creator and other people will have put into it. Primarch relations are impossible to translate to a Chapter Master.I know you like this air-cav idea, but (a) that's not enough and (b) it was already taken, we just had lousy record-keeping.
>>34523001People are getting chopped down to chapters, etc.>>34522976And we were, but to use colorful phrasing, people were stepping on each others' dicks, and it was a mess. We're trying to keep everything clean so it'll be easier to work on.
>>34522781It was on the Google Doc and the wiki, but seems that someone's deleted that. Piss>>34523003I'm banned from the goddamn wiki. I wrote Bohemond's background on the Google Doc and asked for someone to copy it over but that hasn't happened.
>>34522976That was before Uriel just about lost it from all the redundant Legions and Super Sues. Drawing the line at 25 and demanding a tight concept is key to stopping that from happening.
>>34522976Gaspard wants to lower it to 25, I am under the impression that the project has yet to come to a consciousness>>34523003I really dont see how that is not good enough. When we have two different Attrition forces and Jungle Specialists. But like I ahve said, when we get to it, I am more than willing to just make a chapter. I just think this is not the worst idea, no offence to everyone, its just my opinion.
OK guys, going to bed. Tomorrow I'll write the fall of The Entombed, and finally get around to making that Steel Marshalls successor chapter based around Saladin and 3rd crusade mounted islamic knights.Unless you'd rather I do chaos. Chaos don't really have successor chaptors though, just sort of warbands.
>>34523080I'll get it.
>>34523001dreams and hope. The usual.
>>34523059Ah, gotcha.I'm totally in favor of 30. I wanna see those Mad Max marines.
>>34523001I agreed to be the confrontational one so that Nathanog could take a break. (Not really, but it is working out a bit like that.)>>34523080Right. I hate google docs, but I'll fish out your stuff if it's not up when I get home tonight.
>>34523080I see, well since it seems the other Air Assault force is gonna be axed, for it not being a good enough basis for a Legion, you can do yours.
>>34523118>>34523142I can live with 30 or 25, I'd just like to make sure that *if* we go with 25, we do it as fairly and as unemotionally as possible. No cutting people because someone believes a thing is impossible, for example. This is 40k, if GW announced a new Legion tomorrow that used waterborne boats everywhere, surfing them down from orbit, I'd accept that. Because the setting is broad, loose, and cray-cray, to quote the youth.
>>34523158Not so fast,Although I favor the decision of cutting down some Legions. He is doing some efforts to make his thing work at least (the Barrow Lords guy).I say we keep it, as long as he stays true to this Airborne Deployment role on the battlefield.
>>34523080>>34523148No worries, it's taken care of.
>>34523201This. 40k is a pretty goofy universe.
>>34523093>>34523059Woah fuck. What about me? Please do not tell me I've been demoted or something like that. I've been here since the beginning and I've got a subfaction within my legion that has it's own awesome fluff thanks to Bloodseer. Sorry if I sound really defensive but it really seems like people have been getting cut out pretty readily here and I'd hate to seem redundant with Darius. Not to say Darius should be cut out either. His fluff is also in the higher tier in this whole AU. So yeah, what's the word on my beloved Augurs and their supreme douche Primarch?
>>34523128Aww sweet. I'm headin' out, too. See y'all tomorrow!
>>34523130>>34523148>>34523234Cheers guys>>34523158That would be pretty awesome. I just think it fits in with Bohemond's personality, he's such a fervent believer in the Emperor's mission that he'll strike in the most dramatic and devastating way possible. Short piece of fluff incoming
>>34523249You're good. No worries. You've got a solid base and theme going on, it's mostly the more vague and nimbulus/Mary Sue types.
>>34523273ASSAULT ON KTARRIA PRIMELocal forces attempted to take advantage of the fierce metallic sandstorms to conceal themselves from Imperial forces, then attack the exposed flank once the storm had subsided. Bohemond decides to make an example of them in an effort to force a quick capitulation and constructs a plan with the aid of Brennus and Darius. Mounted in Thunderhawks, the Space Marines locate the enemy by using Darius and the Sand Bearers' psychic talents, then assault the enemy camp whilst they are still sheltering from the harsh winds and biting sands. Under Brennus' co-ordination, raiding parties from the Knights of Justice, Sand Keepers and Thunder Kings ravage everything they can. With visibility down to a handful of metres, the Marines trust to their melee weapons and the first sign of trouble for many Ktarrians is a Marine bursting through a tent wall, melee weapon in hand. By the time the storm subsides the Thunderhawks have long since departed and orbital scans show that the camp is in utter ruins. Ktarrian authorities soon surrender and the world is admitted into the Imperium with minimal scourging.
>>34523201My proposed cuts are to the most problematic legion (Nova Defenders), most-likely-abandoned legion (Machine Guards), and the least developed (Barrow Lords).There has been a lot of complaining that the Barrow Lords could get a concept if only they were given a chance and allowed to flourish and grow and sing. So, if it ever comes down to a question why that didn't happen, blame me. I shot Bambi's mother, and I shot Bambi, too, and I'm a vegetarian so it wasn't for meat.
>>34523222You're right that was unfair of me to jump to that conclusion, sorry everyone.
>>34523296Oh good good. I got worried because... I dunno, serious changes seemed like they were being made and I don't want to lose my Legion. I love them.I'll go write more fluff right now. What needs doing
>>34523222Well, hang on, are you OK with KoJ and Barrow Lords being airborne deployment?
>>34523222Yeah. The general way they'd fight would be airborne deployment on the battle field.They've got some funky background stuff, but the way the Barrow Lords fight is from the skies. It occurs to me that Storm Bringers might have been a better name. >_<>>34523249I say 30. It gives room for all of us at the moment, plus room for a little more collaboration. At the moment, if I am correct there are 27/26 forces. There's some overlap in core concept on many of them, and that's ok, the distinctions will come out in the fluffing just like the Iron Hands were basically good-guy Iron Warriors until the fluff fleshed them out a bit more.
>>34523379Huuummmm.They both want Airborne Deployment??We had yet to see what The Knights of Justice were about right?
>>34523332How about this:IF the Barrow Lords don't get some significant progress made next thread.IF the Nova Defenders don't likewise get their shit together in the next thread. (No indefinite deadlines here, it's stupid)and IF no one fixes the Machine Guards.THEN we cut all 3 and go for 25.IF the people who think they CAN fix it, DO fix it, and do so in a *timely* manner (again, no indeterminate deadlines, next thread), then we go for 30 Primarchs.They will have all of next thread to get shit done, and those that don't like them will agree to carefully examine their own criticism and carefully determine what's coming from personal bias, and what is actual problems that need correcting. Does that sound fair, those of you who are pro and those of you who are con alike?
>>34523358Well, basically, if we don't make the Barrow Lords Legion-worthy in the next 2 minutes, they're getting the axe.>>34523381>>34523332I'm in favor of keeping spaces open for another 5, but we need to make sure they have solid themes and concepts. And aren't getting in the way or overshadowing another Legion.
>>34523409Wiki's unclear (says they're fast attack), but Bohemond is banned from it. He said upthread that he'd claimed the airmobile thing ages ago and suggested there was stuff about that in the google doc.
>>34523419Next thread is imminent though, we are at 400+ posts...
>>34523409I think it's like Mork and Gork. Knights of Justice are kunninly brutal and the Barrow Lords are Brutally Cunnin
>>34523451Yes. They'd have next thread, and no more, to get shit together.
>>34523419Clearly this is how the post-Heresy imperium worked: Gaspard made everyone unhappy and Arelex proposed a reasonable solution.I'm OK with it.
>>34523419What do you want to see from the Barrow Lords?Tell me and I'll get it for you all.
>>34523419In all honesty, I think we should cut the Machine Guards. I don't think we've seen them for around 7 posts.I hate to say it about the Nova Defenders, but they are too vague. I say we give Rook the chance of another thread to get his shit squared away, but if we can't, he's done.Same with Barrow Lords, there's some interesting ideas, we just need him to focus.
>>34523507>What do you want to see from the Barrow Lords?A clear, non-redundant concept.
>>34523448Who the hell banned Bohemond?? That would seem like a problem to solve.Huumm, well we can't have them have the same theme... If the Knight of Justice guy is around they can discuss it out.Else, I'd say we give at least one thread to the Barrow guy to make it work, else we can start cutting.
Right, I'm not enough of a special snowflake to piss on everyone's parade. Sure I'd love to see the KoJ be Air Assault but if another Legion has already claimed it then fine. I still want a fast attack role, and I get first dibs if they cut/go absent. How does that sound?
>>34523507Personally, I like the idea of a Legion tasked with not just advancing the Imperium's borders, but also its trade routes. The Imperial Coast Guard, so to speak, the Marine Legion charged with working closely with the Imperial Navy and similar forces. You should either go with that, and focus on it, or you should go with the more "mystic" route you took with the Assault Terminator thing, and the persian mysticism thing. Those are two very different concepts. Pick one.
>>34523486Seems fair, next thread should be named"Get your shit together or I will cut you!"
>>34523520Machine Guards can either be cut, or they can be the Legion that people who wanted a 2nd Legion can fluff (without adding yet another one in, yet). Basically, if they want to give it a shot, the people who wanted to take a swing at another Legion get one thread to make it work. If not, then the Machine Guards go byebye.
>>34523520Yeah Machine Guards seem like super dead.Everyone know my opinion of Nova Defenders.Barrow has some potential though, but it might depend a lot on what Bohemond has to say.
>>34523560Thing is, you got there first. Like, the whole reason the Barrow Lords were fast attack is because we didn't check the wiki and see that the Knights already had it. I don't want to be in a position of trying to cut Bohemond (who is all over the place) because we gave away your Legion concept.
>>34523560Shrug. I'd not know about your air cav angle when I came up with my dudes.Given what I've seen you're rather straight forward, kinda like the Bretonians. No triksy ambushes, etc. Honor and steel and all that badassery.I'm thinking the Barrow Lords are dirty bastards in war. The difference, I guess, is sorta like Raven Guard and White Scars?What do you think?
>>34523634Children of Armok are already the dirtiest Legion.
Well as many of you might figure out having a beard ages you quite a bit, hope he's not too old now also Nathanog you're next
>>34523634Alright, that works, but you still have to really put in something that differentiates you from him. What makes you YOU?
>>34523590>not just advancing the Imperium's borders, but also its trade routes. The Imperial Coast Guard, so to speak, the Marine Legion charged with working closely with the Imperial Navy and similar forces.Careful here, that's close to just being a mere Rogue Trader.
>>34523634Straightforward is a good word. I've tried to show that to people but I guess I really need to do some real work on it. Going to the Doc now>>34523620Do you mean "features prominently" or "varies wildly in characterisation"?
>>34523700God Emperor all mighty, man. I'm not trying to say that their dirty like Armok nor that being dirty bastards is their sole defining trait.
>>34523713Are you kidding! This is perfect, even better than what I had in my head.Yes, you did better than my own imagination.
>>34523713Oh Shit. For real??I can't fucking wait.
>>34523739I mean that wherever there is injustice, Bohemond is there to strike it down.
>>34523741You realise I'm trying to help, right? If I intended to make you suffer, I'd let you wander down that path and chop you down late next thread.
>>34523731How, exactly? Rogue Traders go adventuring into the void for xenos ass and ancient gold. The Coast Guard kills Eldar Corsair fleets, lands on worlds to fuck up smugglers and criminals, annihilates worlds who don't pay the Imperial Tithe, protects Imperial Shipping, and generally says "Why hello there, enemy ships. The Imperium wishes to have you now. Prepare your anuses."They're not negotiating trade missions, they're preventing the Imperium's arteries from getting clogged or severed, a mission requiring diligence, skill, and overwhelming force applied in small areas, that is loyal to the Imperium, not just themselves like a RT would be.
>>34523590Maybe lose the Trade Aspect, keep the Air Mobile and the Voidwarefar, but make it be a force that operates ahead of the Crusade? Outside the boarders of the Empire?
>>34523724I'm thinking it's a combination of a few factors.One is the carefully constructed brutality of Barrow Lords assaults. They watch, wait, get a good idea, and then strike. Usually with feints.When they finally come in force, it's too late, the enemy is spread over an area, weak, confused by reports of terminators that appear out of the mist and vanish into the shadows, harried by bombing runs.It's then that the main airwing screams overhead, air dropping heavy armor and squads of marines bent on tearing limb from limb.They're gone by the time help arrives, attacking some other point.That work?
>>34523837I thought we already had an air warfare legion?
>>34523739Sincerely.I think you guys would make great Generalists, focusing on Tactical Marines like the Ultramarines, where your counterpart The Crusaders would be more about Assault Marines.The Judge (pointing at things and judging them with the bolter) and The Enforcer (beheading the culprits in close combat).Or it could be the other way around.
>>34523819Yeah, yeah, it's cool. Honestly. That one though, that felt like... u hav'n a laugh at me m8.
>>34523855How would you sum that up in a few words?
>>34523713Drawfriend, I need a favour. An enormous favour. Could you edit the eyes on the image of my Primarch? Unfortunately you happened to catch his description in a very short intermediary period and he no longer has black eyes. I was trying to fix it myself in photoshop but I failed miserably. >His most distinguishing feature however are his eyes, blank and staring off into the distance, as if he cannot focus on anything, constantly possessing a thousand yard stare. He always appears to be seeing something that no one else can.That's the new description. If you could go into the image and edit that one thing it would be flawless.
>>34523855Alright, that seems like a lot going on at once, How can we make this a bit narrower vision?
>>34523888I post images when I'm joking. Even when it's a cruel joke.
>>34523906sure I'll edit it later
Also, Pandora is playing Golgothos' theme song:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM8bTdBs-cw
>>34523879It would mess well with the operating beyond the frontier, its not needed though.
>>34523934Thanks friend. Whenever you have time. It's just bugging me.
>>34523855If you'll focus on that, and drop anything extraneous to that style, then yes, that's a base to build on.
>>34523891Tricky-clever air cavalry?Air-cavalry that are never where you think they are?Ambush from 10 sides?The tentacles of the kraken?
>>34523971I know we have the whole like Chain swords thing for the Haruspex, but what if they were the Legion's Terminator Elite. Only their Terminator Armor was more similar to that of the Grey Knights?
>>34523988As opposed to dumb air cavalry? That's a non-starter. I asked the question that way because it seemed like you were aiming at a psychological warfare thing, and... y'know, there's a loyalist legion that already does that. If you want to be Void Angels successors, I have a snowflake slot for that.
>>34523988Evasive Actions/Air Deployment
>>34523988How about this: You focus on ambush and terror attacks? You can still use this stuff, but that's not what defines you.
>>34524071The thing about that is >>34524042
>>34524042Ah, no, psychological warfare factors into it, and it was a much bigger part of them initially, but I scaled it back to avoid intruding on void angels territory.For the Barrow Lords, psych warfare is a tool in out-manouvering their foe and luring them into traps.
>>34515870General question for the floor.In terms of actual combat, my Legion focuses on ranged combat over melee (in general), and using the highest technology available. How specific should I make that technology? Can it be a collection of mostly indeterminate items, or should it be a more specific list, like "We have shitloads of awesome Contemptor MK IIs, because we found that pattern somewhere", or, "Check out these double strength Jump Packs we've got, they can carry a dude with a Heavy Bolter", or some such?Basically, is it ok to just say "We've got da Archaotech" and leave it vague (since we're not designing these Legions for actual tabletop play), or do you guys think I need to select specific kinds of tech to say "And the War Scribes have a *lot* of these things specifically, because they found the templates/patterns/STC fragments for their forges to make"?
>>34524071If Lumey goes for it, then by all means, but I think he's got the NOT Night Lords thing down.
>>34524105alright, my bad. Well, we can always have him switch to Chaos. Several of us made the leap to even things out (myself included).
>>34524120I'd probably come up with a few really cool specific things and have a bunch of undifined cool stuff.
>>34524033Well that's fucking badass as shit. I like the idea a lot. I have one issue and one idea that stems off of it. The idea is that if it were to ever be mad into a table top game somehow each legion would have their special unit, the Augurs would be the Haruspex and the Vate Council. The issue is that means they couldn't become their own warband after the Heresy really. They don't have to but it was just an idea. I think the amount I like it greatly outweighs the fact is kinda sets my plans off balance. They don't even need the chainweapons if they're constantly crushing, cutting, and blowing all their opponents to chunks with termy weapons. And yes, they would definitely look like grey knights terminators.
So is there anything I can do while the other Primarchs and Legions are updated?I just wanna writefag stuff.
>>34524109Dude, this isn't a criticism of you. I just don't think there's any creative space left in that neighbourhood.For what it's worth, being the Void Angels Successor isn't trivial. Lumey's "I don't trust you fucks" thing goes all the way down, so his favourite doesn't get command of the Legion. Instead, the chosen son gets something rather more than a Chapter to do his own thing. (Most sentimental thing Gaspard does.)You could easily do what you want to do with the Barrow Lords as those guys, even down to a heavy psychological warfare slant.
>>34524184Evasive Actions/Air DeploymentLater on we can fluff all Legions with things like Legion Cults, ect...
>>34523713I love you Drawfag. Let it be known that Darius was a great supporter of the remembracers!!
Also we're on page 10.
>>34523713101/10. Might as well put down a physical and character description here>A powerful figure who dominates his surroundings with his presence. His skin is remarkably clear, and if he were a mere mortal his face would appear on many recruiting posters. When speaking to a group, he's constantly taking everyone in, even addressing lowly Guardsman. To be judged by his steely blue eyes is a terrible thing, but when he roars a rallying cry it is a powerful and uplifting thing to behold. He is not the fastest of his brothers, but moves and fights with a ruthless economy of muscle and motion.>>34523774Fucking YES. Totally gonna have a successor called The Avenging Angels now
>>34524184What sort of power level should they have, in general, bearing in mind that this is 30k, when the overall power level is significantly higher than 40k?
>>34524206Alright, I could use your expertise, then. First off, curious about my post earlier about my primarch meeting the Emprah. How can I make it not suck?>>34519233>>34519746
Making the next thread, unless someone is already.
Alright, who knows how to update the archive?
>>34524213Not taking it personally and if it comes down to it, I'll do a VA successor. Still, I prefer the legion, I think it works rather well as a concept.>>34524154Huh, perhaps Sargon dies early? Then the legion could shatter into the various guilds, with some of them going independent ala rogue traders, some loyal, and some heretic.
>>34524206Is there any writefag fluff about the Augurs? Perhaps at Istvaan tearing the War Scribes a new one with their new demon and warp powers? Or a meeting of the council of Vates during the beginning of the heresy?I'll write my own but it's always nice to see how someone interprets your creations.
>>34524359The Augurs aren't at Isstvan, justging by the map above.
>>34524359I did one write fag for them how they opened up a second warp storm in Ultima Segmentum. It was only temporary, but it stopped loyalists in the Segmentum from going south around the Maelstrum, and we said its part of the reason the Silver Catachracts and the Steel Marshalls end up having to go through the crucible.
>>34524273Alot of the errors are pretty minor and the whole of the piece is good.Basically, you fell into overuse of commas which honestly even fucking published authors do. You just gotta remind yourself that, 'is this a new clause in the sentence?' If the answer is no, it doesn't need a comma. Next question when it comes to commas is to ask yourself 'does this sentence already have a commas?' If the answer is yes, don't bother adding that comma or try to find a way to have the sentence work with only one. This is honestly what my English professor told me point blank about commas: "Alot of people just guess where they're appropriate. Just learn to guess right most of the time and it'll work out."Try not to capitalize whole words. This is a crime that many people fall into and is not how English is supposed to be. Pratchett gets away with it because he's Pratchett, but you should try to find words to magnify a word rather than just literally magnifying it. Exclamation points already represent someone shouting, you don't need to overdue it.Anyways, the rest of it is fairly solid. Good work. 7.5/10, now get outta of my office.
>>34524214Yeah, I'm good with evasive actions/air deployment as core.What else are people looking for?It's late here. >_<
>>34524277Go for it
>>34524374Whaaaaaaaaa?? Fuck I'm out of the loop. Sorry about that. I forgot to put myself into that map. I guess if I'm not at the battle I'll find something else for myself to do.>>34524413Oh yes, but that was kind of more of a writefag about the Sand Keepers with the Black Augurs as villains. I'd like for them to have speaking part at some point. The one you did was awesome though. Short but sweet.I might just sit down and writefag it myself tomorrow.
>>34524359I'll be happy to do some other battle because apparently they weren't there according to this Anon:>>34524374I already got crazy inspiration though for piece itself, so you just gotta point me in a direction.
>>34524359How's this? I honestly don't know how the Thousand yard stare works exactly
=== NEW THREAD ===>>34524479>>34524479=== NEW THREAD ===
>>34524491I'm almost expecting lasers to come shooting out of his eyes. Or for them to start pointing in two different directions. I have no idea why. Probably because it's 3 am and i'm getting the sleepy giggles.
>>34524491Dude, that actually works.
>>34524491Here drawfriend.I recommend posting your question in the new thread as this ship is about to sink.
>>34524491Oh flawless. That looks great. The eyes look a little unfocused which is perfect. He looks like he's looking past the viewer instead of at him. Which is the exact right effect. Thanks for getting that. It was just bugging me that the descrition and the portrait no longer matched.
>>34524482Oh man, I'm giddy with excitment. What were you thinking of doing? Also new thread so post whatever you want to reply to this there.