/eg/ is lapsing? Hell no.>Exalted, what is that?Read this article to get a hang of the setting. http://theonyxpath.com/exalted/>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?Play this tutorial: http://jyenicolson.net/exalted/. It'll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?Pray. But seriously, Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/ are both places where games could be found. Still, they tend to be rare since no one wants to ST.>Wow, this book is confusing as hell. How the fuck am I supposed to generate a character from this mess?Anathema. http://anathema.github.io/. This is a godly character generator. It has all the charms in nice little skill-trees, a soothing sight for anyone who's ever played an RPG before. It also does all of the math for you, making it very easy to experiment with builds and create character sheets easilyResources:>Corebook with embedded errata http://www.mediafire.com/view/iyo790a3sjw1pzc/_Exalted_2e_Core.pdf>Most other books http://www.4shared.com/dir/YI_tDi2g/Exalted_-_Second_Edition.html>Archive with Errata notes: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/253ulzik1j9s5/Exalted>Fanmade crossbook indexes: http://www.4shared.com/office/_Ke_MsnJba/_exalted_indices.html>Bookmarked 3E Alpha Leak https://mega.co.nz/#!UlRiEbRR!FaeCdqa3hsHn-iyhHtD-IBjgH_8Ks30Wtu6rDL9_mrE>Some mechanics reference sheets: social https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53927438/CheatSheetSocial_0-5.pdf combat https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53927438/CheatSheetCombat_0-7.pdf>Infernal Bandaid: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/124885-how-to-put-a-band-aid-on-infernals/page2#post128384 So anon, what was your most memorable moment in Exalted?
>>34363650Only noobs think Cobra is OP. Just sayin.
>>34363941Really? Gonna start baiting on the first post?
>>34363980Truth's no bait.
>>34364285Then we both agree that it was bait.
Looking to get some extra mileage on Perfected Lotus Mastery (Swallowing the Lotus Root). Which TMAs are worth looking at?
>>34365250Even Blade Style is the hands down best one, if you want to lay down the smack.White Veil is fun and stealthy.Five-Dragon is surprisingly good.Ivory Pestle is always fun, aaand lastly Terrible Ascent-Driven Beast style is apparantly good for Lunars.
>>34363650Where did the red panda lunar waifu joke come from originally?
>>34365622There was a big-ass flame war and someone interrupted it by flooding the thread with cute red panda pictures.And then people thought of red panda lunar waifus
>>34365727May I request a link to an uncensored version?
>>34363650>So anon, what was your most memorable moment in Exalted?Probably dodging a high speed elevator rising rapidly while running down the side of the shaft by going into a kick slide underneath the moving elevator car using the little niche cut out for the maintenance ladder.
>Your Lunar mate is older than you.>>34365826You're in luck, I actually have it.http://i.imgur.com/Jmf7nVA.png
>>34365826You're really not missing out on anything
>>34365868>Lunar x Solar /ss/>Lunar Milf with solar bonded shotaDICK IS DIAMMOONNDSS
>>34365926Our game has it going the other way, except the 14 year old Lunar is actually a girl who abuses Twin Faced Hero
>>34365250>Which TMAs are worth looking at?What do you want to do with the TMA? TMAs are at their worst when trying to be generic hit-and-defend styles - Solar Hero is what you take for that. They're at their best when they're hyper-specialized as a useful tool, like White Veil or Golden Exhalation.
This is Solar problemsolving.
>>34366262Only shitty Solars.
>>34366267Well, I'd say fighty ones. But whatever. I just wanted to share the picture.
>>34366278Fighty Solars exist to keep people off the backs of the actual problem solvers.
>>34365868Fluffy is fun.
>>34366401Depends on which sort of fighty solar you're lookin' at. If it's a Dawn... then they really won't have the XP and favored abilities necessary to actually address systemic issues or even build and maintain an army on their own while still retaining their core competency. Not until 3e, at least.Fighty solars of other castes? Yeah, they can be fighty and solve problems just fine.
>>34365727Is there a term for women with that sort of pelvis, as opposed to a pubic mound or a bony, angular pelvis?
>>34365250Golden Exhalation can be used in some crazy firewand combosArbiter can be exploited for 1) extra wp 2) artifacts if DB or EMTerrestrial Hero is good for grapplersFive Dragon is surprisingly decentFalling Blossom is good for your minions because perfect attacks spamJade Mountain can supplement certain soak setupsWhite Veil can inflict various badtouches that require damage without said damage; it's probably broken in 2.5Even Blade has various good effectsFivefold Shadow has Smoke's Adept Gesture that is essential for certain ultra-optimized controllersIvory Pestle is OP for it's extra action and DV and CripplingSwaying Grass has a flurrybreakerGeneral usage of TMAs goes like this:- if a lowly being you can directly use them for bread and meat stuff like defense/offense- if a Celestial you poach them for specific broken tricks
>>34367573Also, don't forget that Celestials can use TMAs to pretend they're merely enlightened mortals instead of anathema.
Anyone here ever killed a Deathlord?
>>34368747No, and if you have then you're playing the game wrong.Did convince one to jump in the Void though.
>>34366151I want a gradient of power. Particularly, I'm looking for cost effective, low mote charms/styles that I can use with my tiny Sidereal mote pool, when I'm dealing with less meaningful threats. It's one thing to be powerful, it's another to be able to make others feel powerful. Taking them at half cost also makes it possible for me to prioritize effect breadth.>>34365551>>34367573That helps a lot. Gave Five Dragon a closer look and it indeed is surprisingly nice to have. Generally I don't have to go for broken tricks, largely because everyone's trying to avoid going near that level of play.
>>34369006>I'm looking for cost effective, low mote charms/styles that I can useWell, the bad news is that TMAs tend to have very little bang for your buck, in terms of mote efficiency.That said, it sounds like you're looking for a fairly generic fighty style. In that case, I'd go with something like Path of the Arbiter if you can convince your ST to let Sidereals take Destiny (because it makes sense), Terrestrial Hero if you want to be really fucking good at grappling, or Even Blade if you want to be a minmaxing shitheel exploiting OP options.
>>34368883>playing the game wrong
>>34365975Last I heard about that, the Solar didn't really want to have a sexual or romantic relationship with the Lunar because she viewed her mate as a sister. Is that still holding, or has this devolved into Magical Realm bullshit?
>>34369086Currently diving head first into Path of the Arbiter already, so it's good to hear that as a recommendation. Pretty sure that Even Blade is very strong, but not seeing how it can really unbalance the game. Definitely sad that Breath and Essence Control is almost exactly the same as Secrets of Future Strife.Are there any more TMAs outside of SotMs, Terrestrials and Ink Monkeys?
>>34368883Deathlords are not meant to be insurmountable adversaries, dick cheese. Not easy by any stretch of the imagination, but not invincible. An Essence 10 Solar would certainly be able to take one out, or a full circle of Essence 7 Solars could do it.
>>34369340If your circle makes it to E7 you've missed the point of the game.
>>34369335check anathema>>34369378but anon, the point of exalted is PUSH IT TO THE LIMIT. I'll grant you, if your circle is bloody e7, you should have wrapped up the campaign and be ruling creation and possibly heaven
>>34369378So the point of the game is to kill off the PCs before they can reach Essence 7
>>34369582The point is to agree to stop at E5 and play Mutants and Masterminds instead after that.
>>34369378>missed the point of the game.The game has a point? Do tell!
>>34367573Black Tide is for grapplers who like drowning people tooDagger Wind's pinnacle can be comboed for some very damaging attacks that are mostly for showing off
>>34369582but they reach E7 at E5!and E5 at chargen with flaws!
>>34369654 If you want to play in the Exalted setting using M&M rules from the beginning I can respect that, but why the fuck does it make sense to switch rulesets once you reach Essence 5?
>>34369335the Imperfect Lotus (addon to SotM)Debris of the Fallen Races for Dragon King onesthere's an Autochtonian one in their splat
>>34369340A starting Solar circle with Flaws should be able to grab enough Runes of Singular Hate to defeat a DL
>>34369792I know about the E5 at chargen exploit (and any Storyteller that allows this bullshit in their game deserves a punch to the testicles), but what are you talking about with the E7 at E5 things?
>>34369895It's not complex enough to deserve to be called exploit, it's just dumb chargen rules (10 extra bonus points)At E5 Solars can get the charm that discounts 1 dot of charm requirements and the charm that raises essence by 1 for a day; so E5 Solar can use E7 Solar charms
>>34363650>tfw no glorious solar waifu
>>34371156Which canon character is the best waifu/husbando?
>>34371303If I had to choose I'd choose the Roseblack as my Waifu. She's strong, confident, capable, RICH, and proud. The Alpha female. She also has a sweet side to her.
>>34369290Solar's now pretty much schizophrenic and is trying to justify the Lunar in female form as her sister and the male form as her boyfriend.Though it's worth noting that the Solar now has moonsilver/orichalcum tattoos that serve to strengthen the Solar end of the bond (to the point where the Solar's MDV vs the Lunar is 0) because plot reasons. It's fucking with her head more than a bit.
>>34371848What does the Solar player have to say about this shit happening to his/her PC? And what kind of penalty is the Lunar taking to her MDV vs. the Solar? And could you please detail the plot reasons? This game sounds like it was created just to fulfill someone's fetish. And if this is an ERPG, that's just fine, but otherwise this game sounds like it's being done in terrible taste.
>>34373856Solar's fine with it. The Lunar is an NPC who was originally a heroic mortal who was just devoted as hell to the Solar, but when they Exalted as the Solar's Lunar Mate, it turned into runaway dependency, with hero worship. (which bothers the fuck out of the Solar, since they're suffering from self-esteem issues.) As a result, since the girl has "Live up to [Solar's] expectations" in her fucking MOTIVATION, her MDV is shot to shit anyway.ST has implied the Solar's MDV vs the Lunar is linked to the Lunar's MDV vs the Solar - when the latter rises, so does the former.The plot reasons boil down, mostly, as making it a way to balance the solar/lunar bond to take the stress off the girl and allow her to actually develop as an individual instead of someone who has an intimacy jammed so far up their ass they're incapable of anything else. Side reason also includes getting the Silver Pact to trust the Solar, due to needing some political muscle. The super-strengthened bond comes with some sweet side benefits, though, like sharing the effect of a charm with your bond partner for +2 mote +1 wp activation cost.I realize things in this game will probably bother people as something being done wrong, or conflicting with a piece of fluff on how Lunar Bonds are supposed to work/how they're supposed to be portrayed, but everyone in the group is absolutely fine with it.
>>34374550Now that you've explained the plot reasons, this all actually sounds reasonable. Except for the part where the Solar has developed a split personality to deal with the cognitive dissonance generated by her relationship with the Lunar. That sounds so bad I'd just say, "Fuck it, I don't need the Silver Pact's help THAT much."
>>34374832I was exaggerating a little, it's more closely portrayed as the Solar trying really, really hard to cling to a distinction that doesn't really exist.
>>34374874So I'm really not objecting to your game in any sense anymore, I'm not trying to criticize the way its being conducted or any of its participants, but the Lunar and Solar's relationship is pretty much the most extreme example of codependency ever. And codependency pretty much inevitably leads to suffering. Why is the Solar's player cool with this? I'm just curious.
>>34374983for those looking for decent MA
>>34374973The player has a long history of making their characters go through horrific shit. I think they like roleplaying angst. They're decent at it, but they definitely have a masochistic approach to roleplaying.
>>34374983>>34375016Looking through these and looking through Infernals; would it be possible to create a MA style that makes use of the Sorcerous Keyword?
>>34375280Sure, anything's possible, it's not like the system'll break if there's a Sorcerous MA Charm.Generally keywords are kept pretty tight to their original source to maintain distinction, but that's all.
>>34365926Sol save me
Do Phoenixes exist in Exalted? I know Flame Gryphons are pretty damn close, but not quite what I'm looking for.
>>34378738Sure, I don't see why not.Probly a breed of Fire Elemental, or maybe a particularly strange Wyld-creature.
>>34378799Yeah, there's a fire elemental that's pretty close.Yes, this means you can't be a Phoenix Lunar.
Quick question.Are Melee Solar Builds using a One handed weapon (Daiklave, Artifact Spear etc) and a Thunderbolt shield viable? Or is it just huge two handers all the time?
>>34379013Totally legit.Solar Melee is such a monster of a Charm tree that, honestly, you could kick someone's shit in with a chopstick if you were so inclined.The 2-handed beatsticks are mostly there to make your offense cheaper, where one-hander + shield makes both offense and defense a little cheaper.
>>34379013There is very little difference between a reaver daiklave and a grand daiklave in terms of final damage total. The bulk of your damage dice will be coming from things like Hungry Tiger Technique.
>>34365727I knew the guy who did that! I was in a game with him!
>>34371303Erembour.It's like Sadako except with perfect tits and ass and a sexual technique refined since before the creation of time. Have her hide in your shadow and sic her on anyone stupid enough to have not learned Sorcery.
>>34378738Garda Bird.>>34378867If I were the ST, I would let him be just a non-elemental version of the bird until he gets to E4 and picks up elemental shape-stealing.Then he can light up the night.
>>34379013there's no su h thing as 2handed weapon for Solars. They always wield 1handed due to strength or the charm in Glories that lets them to. Two weapons or one+shield depends on whether you want more Rate or more DV.
>>34386015>using nonmagical flurriesThose aren't going to get you anywhere
>>34386117You're joking right?
>>34386319The attack penalty for even 2 attacks in a non-magical flurry makes them worthless against pretty much everyone except people weaker than you to begin with.-2 dice and -2 DV is retardedly significant against an otherwise-equal combatant, thanks to how Exalted's dicepools work.
>>34386415Well, that's what penalty reducers are for. My Lunar can make 10 attacks and take 0 DV loss.
>>34386431>Well, that's what penalty reducers are for.Almost zero of which apply to multiple-action penalties, and the ones that do are rarely worth a damn.>My Lunar can make 10 attacks and take 0 DV loss.>talking about Solars>bring up Lunars who have HBR and Octopus-Barrage abuse to account forhurr durr
>>34386450>Using none of those charms
>>34386431>>34386450Well for start, if you've got penalty reducers and fighting anything worth serious effort, they probably have penalty reducers too. But those both are only for the DV.The only way to deal with multiple action penalties is magical flurry and in that case the Rate becomes meaningless.Although, yeah, there is one or two places where rate is applicable. Fire Dragon Style and I think one of Adorjan charms allow you to flurry up to your Rate with reduced multiple action penalty.But that's all there is to it. Otherwise, Rate is a meaningless stat.
>>34386015You need 3 times the strength requirement to use 2 handed weapons 1 handed without penalty right? How do you get 9 dots in strength to use a Grand Daiklave?And what charm in Glories?
>>34386508Noobs speaking out of turn again I see.You don't worry about Rate, boy. Your lesson for today is to wrap your head around Solars never wielding two-handed.
>>34386669OK, noob here. Does that mean Solars never wield 2 handed or that Solars never wielding 2 handed is wrong and they do wield 2 handed?And the viability of a Sword and Board/Hoplite Solar is still puzzling.
>>34386590Dual Slaying Posture in Glories:Luna. Find it on p. 22. There are many Solar charms hidden this way including some of the most powerful ones like Honored Companion of the Sun, Fiery Solar Chakram and Ego Shield; best use the Anathema software to track them.
>>34386714Balls!When someone says Glories when i ask about Solars, i expect it to be in the bloody Solar book. This is making me far angrier than it should.
>>34386707Solars wield two handers all the time, some just like having more options, for example punching someone in the face after swinging at them.Personally I've had one Solar abuse the shit out of that.Sword and Board is perfectly viable, good even.If you haven't faced down a Dawn caste wearing heavy orichalcum plate, a thunderbolt shield, and a Reaper Daiklave.Well, then you have not known fear.
>>34386707Of course you can wield 2-handed if you have more important things to spend XP on than Strength boosts or Dual Slaying Posture. It's all about priorities. Viability of Solar builds doesn't really rise from their weapons, Exalted requires more integrated approach to discern good the good builds.
>>34386669Got anything to actually back up your claims?Given the quick slide into petty insults, I'd bet not.
>>34386799Specifically, about a 10-attack flurry that depends on Rate without flushing your dicepool down the drain.And not using either option I named.
>>34386799Not that guy, but any fighty solar that doesn't have Shadow Over Water or Dipping Swallow Defense/Bulwark Stance deserved to die a horrible gory death on his first supernatural encounter.
>>34386842Easy ignoring of DV penalties was my fucking point.What is NOT easy is to remove multi-action penalty to your attack dicepool.
>>34386590Common ways to boost Strength include Strength Increasing Exercise, sorcery like Bones of Stone, Exalted power armor like Gunzosha, mutations like Large, and artifacts that grant Strength (Crown of Thunders is an example of a powerful such artifact). Eclipses can get the Strength boosting charms of various other splats. Less common ways include Fey magic items (very complex rules, if you want to learn more about this go to Giantitp forums and Summon Meschlum), Mountain Folk/Dragon King power armor, Spirit Endowments, and probably a dozen more obscure ways I'm too lazy to think of right now.
>>34386853So fucking what if you have low attack pools after a while? Onslaught will wear down DV's effectively.I will admit that it depends on a ST ruling towards actually having to hit for Onslaught to count, but anyone who does that is objectively retarded.
>>34386860>Eclipses can get the Strength boosting charms of various other splats.SIE is pretty much the best in there, unless you're willing to blow two permanently committed personal motes on top of out-of-splat charm costs to get Alchemical Excellency and IAM analogue for Strength.>>34386866Onslaught is very, very easily ignored.
>>34386870>Onslaught is very, very easily ignored.Do tell what meaningful way it is easily ignored, I am honestly curious.
>>34386870>SIE is pretty much the best in there, unless you're willing to blow two permanently committed personal motes on top of out-of-splat charm costs to get Alchemical Excellency and IAM analogue for Strength.Oh and that will only get you from 3m per dot to 2m per dot.Useless.
>>34386879Shadow Over Water. Any other charm with that function.
>>34386905Ok, they ignore the penalties to their DV, they can still be hit, not to mention they will bleed motes doing so, which is a victory for the attacker.
>>34386909Not if they have something that does it scenelong. And then YOU have to spend same motes in order to not get wrecked by a return.If they even need it - DV penalty for Onslaught is smaller than the penalty your take to your attack pool. It almost breaks even on the final attack only.Meanwhile, you still fail to tell how you're ever getting 10 attacks without magic.
>>34386799Discerning when to use a magic flurry that comes with its own number of attacks, when to use a magic flurry that is based on Rate, and when to use a nonmagic Rate flurry is presently beyond you. Not trying to insult you, it really is.The core of 2E combat between competent opponents is mote economy and to a lesser extent Willpower economy. The purpose of your attacks, counterattacks, and reflexive attacks is to press the opponent to spend as many motes as possible WHILE you spent as little as possible on your attacks. Simply going Iron Whirlwind all the time won't get you anywhere against competent fighters.
>>34386962Was not aware you were asking me, we're not just two people here. My Lunar can do 3 per arm, two per leg, that's 10 right there.
>>34386996>Discerning when to use a magic flurry that comes with its own number of attacks, when to use a magic flurry that is based on Rate, and when to use a nonmagic Rate flurry is presently beyond you. Not trying to insult you, it really is.You're purely delusional in the third having any meaningful use (beyond leaving yourself the easiest target on the field) and the second is nearly nonexistant.
>>34387029I'm sorry man, but you're clearly a fucking idiot.
>>34387029No, I'm not.I can also casually defeat any Iron Whirlwind Solar of your, and I probably won't even need to use a Solar myself, you sound that inexperienced.
Are you people seriously trying to argue metagaming Exalted, a system so busted no fewer than 4 punpuns exist using the Solar corebook alone?You're ALL retarded.
>>34387232You'll be surprised how well it runs if the players aren't assholes of cosmic proportions.
>>34387248I'm not saying it doesn't, I love the system, it's my favorite broken bird in the aviary, but people seriously trying to stroke their e-peens against each other using Exalted? That's just fucking silly.
>>34387262Eh, I like arguing about combat and good tricks to use. Granted, I'm not the one going "I'm better than you!" "No, me!"
>>34387232Hey, i'm just the poor newbie asking about shields.
>>34387262Would you say it's a.. broken winged crane?
>>34387335If you want to make a character that uses X, make one. It's that simple.If your character is grossly underpowered, talk to your ST about it and either figure out a way to work in an artifact X that has magic balance juice all over it to bring you up to par or see about brewing up some charms that aren't busted if you're a poor soul who didn't realize a particular charm tree was totally unusable before liking the character.>>34387361I would say that, Anon. I would say it as I ran at you screaming with a knife. My wrathful chorus would echo out, "I NAME YOU DEMON, CARLOS THE FUCKING WETBACK PIECE OF NIGGERSHIT FUCK" before I drove the wrought iron spike into your heart, binding your dead soul forever that you may never haunt another creature ever again.
>>34365926I actually had a character like that.Solar Shota Twilight crafter and Sorceror(Another Player)And his Always in Warform and Beast Power Concentration Full Moon mate/bodyguard(Myself)
WHAT THE CHRIST HAPPENED IN THIS THREAD
>>34386714>Fiery Solar ChakramNot really that powerful post-errataBefore, though, holy shit, what the fuck.. +10 dice?
>>34378738There's probably a bird in the South that requires fire to gestate its eggs. Hell, it might even burst into flame itself once it has a clutch of eggs in order to get the fire started. That's about the closest an animal can get in Creation.Was that helpful?
>>34386590>You need 3 times the strength requirement to use 2 handed weapons 1 handed without penalty right?Can I get a citation on that? Because I seem to remember 2e not making any distinction at all between one-handed and two-handed weapon except in the case of spears, were you get a bigger bonus for two-handing it.
>>34387702The line of what an animal is is blurry as a pair of glasses dipped in frying oil.There's godblooded animals as well. If a fire elemental has a serious boner for birds to the point where it has fucked more than half the seagulls on an island you might have pheonix like creatures breeding true.Or mutations.Or just a firelemental straight of.Or a demon.Or maybe behemoth like creatures.And so fucking fourth.
>>34387620Dice from charms run into the same dice cap as dice from excellencies. A Solar can only ever get Ability + Attribute dice from their charms. That's why dice-adder charms are only ever even remotely relevant or useful when they're more cost-effective than basic Excellencies.
Can we also have an Exalted character art thread?I'm looking for a good picture for my Night Caste martial arts master/former secret policeman. Male, for what it's worth. I'll post a few as well.
>>34387750No, but it wasn't dice added from charms. It gave +5 accuracy and +5 damage to your weapon. The dice were indirectly added, and thus didn't run into the dice cap. It was ABSURD.
>>34386866The penalties mundane flurries take aren't worth the onslaught penalty, is the problem.Let's say you have a Rate 5 weapon, for some stupid reason, and you decide to make a five-attack flurry with it.You take a -5 on the first attack, and they take -0 to their DV. By the end of the flurry, you're taking a -9 to your last attack, and they're only taking -4 to their DV - an effective penalty of 8 dice to their DV.So, you'll just get a Rate 6 weapon, or two Rate 3 weapons, and do it that way, right? Wrong. Because now the penalty starts at -6 and ends at -11, with your opponent's DV only taking a -5 by the end of it. The closest you'll ever to get parity this way is your opponent taking one-die-lower penalty to their DV than you're taking to your attack.Rate, and mundane flurries, are WORTHLESS in 2e.The only time flurries are worth a damn is when they come with no penalties, like in Solar Melee, or when they come with massively-reduced penalties, like the Fire Dragon Style passive ability or Adorjan's flurry charm. Flurry charms make flurrying basically the best combat option in the game. But without charms like that? Flurries are worthless, and Rate doubly so.
>>34387864Or if you are two people attacking them.I had a lunar basically go full total offense on foes with me coming in afterwards and breaking them like an egg. This was our go to tactic.
>>34387777Eh, +5 damage is basically worthless. You're going to splat someone on a hit regardless of how disgustingly powerful your weapon is. You're right on it adding +5 non-charm dice, though, that's way too good.
Character art, anybody? Bueller?
>>34387717Core: Pg.374 Weapons and Strength.
>>34387881>If a character is attacked multiple times by the same opponent, each attack cumulatively imposes an additional -1 penalty to both DVs (called an onslaught penalty).>Onslaught penalties apply only when defending against the character that imposed them and only against the attacks of an individual fl urry. If an attacker acts a second time before the defender’s DV refreshes, the onslaught penalty is reset to 0 at the start of the second series of attacks.Onslaught penalties end when your flurry ends. Your buddy doesn't get to take advantage of them. You can't onslaught someone's DV down in order to set up your buddy for the kill.The closest thing to that is a Coordinated Attack, which works a different way entirely. You misread the rules. Rate and mundane flurries are fucking worthless.
>>34387922Ah.Yes we did misread them. Well fuck, luckily the campaign ended before that. It was a good house rule.
>>34387945>It was a good house rule.It really wasn't, in my opinion. I LIKE that you need War and Coordinated Attacks to use that kind of tactic, because it makes War relevant. You can't just flurry someone in order to set up your mate, you have to make the War roll, bark out a few orders, and THEN nail the enemy with a double-whammy.Coordinated attacks, as a side note, are fucking sweet, and an incredibly powerful option.
>>34387969In that campaign was was one of the most used skills because it was a warcampaign. More or less we were capped by our warability in terms of resources, followers and similar nackgorunds because we needed to organise that many people. It made our dragonblooded really useful as he ran war and bureaucracy and kept things working smooth and basically made sure we had minions around us to keep our flanks free when we smashed tactical points.Though we ran a game where we could spend about 10 or 14 different combats before we had a chance to sit down. So we had to be very mote efficient.
>>34387922Ok, let's do some basic simulation here, and I'll be using averages instead of actually rolling for simplicity.We have Solar #1, Fuck You With Fiery Swords as he names himself, he wields two Orichalcum Short Daiklaves and has 17 dice to attack, which is entirely reasonable for a combat focused starting character; His rate is at a maximum of 6.And in the other corner we have Built like a House of Bricks, our other Solar, let's say he has a DV of 6 which is rather decent, he would have more if he focused on defense or took some artifacts to help himself, but alas. Now our swordy fucker decides to do a 6 attack flurry against our meatshield here. We will be rounding up.First he has 11 dice to attacking, 17-6=11, for an average of 5 hits, since Exalted pools have a 50% hit chance on dice(Not really but the difference is truly negligible)So he misses, but then he has five more, yay!So when we put it all together he does this:Strike 1: 11 dice, 5 successesStrike 2: 10 dice, 5 successesStrike 3: 9 dice, let's say 5 again since we're rounding up.Strike 4: 8 dice, 4 successesStrike 5, 7 dice, 4 successesStrike 6, 6 dice, 3 successesNow his opponent's DV would have been 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 Throughout the ordeal. This would mean our swordy Solar hit 4 times, 3 if we were to round down.And since he uses Orichalcum Short Daiklaves, his weapon has an Overwhelming tag of 2.So our solar rolls 2 ping damage 4(or 3) times. On average hurting our poor meatshield for 4 or 3 levels of lethal damage. And this is just a mundane flurry!Now it's quite possible for meatshield to employ charms like Shadow Over Water of Bulwark Stance, but by doing so he bleeds motes whereas the swordy dude isn't.By doing this he has scored hits on his opponent, and lost no motes!While his opponent needs to weight damage vs. mote bleed. He will take the mote bleed. In doing this he has forced a loss on his opponent without taking one himself.
>>343881226 DV is not 'decent'.
>>34388159Fine, what's a decent DV?
>>34388159Dex 5, Melee 5 (+3 Daiklaives), +4 Thunderbolt shield. +2 Daiklaive
>>34388122Assuming for the sake of argument he doesn't already have Fivefold Bulwark Stance active, he just pops Bulwark Stance on the first one and 2-dice stunts his defence. Total cost: 1 mote, which he can recover in his own turn if he spends 3 motes or less. Of course, this is chump level Exalted combat (which is my favourite) in the first place. You can tell, because no-one has Infinite Melee Mastery active.
>>34388240I'll be honest with you, I usually don't deal with Solar combat, I can do Lunar stuff very well, but Solar Combat never really interested me all that much.Chump level is indeed fun. And lastly, I was skipping stunts on purpose since my post was too long, and because it would be moot, since the attacker could just do it too and gain more net motes than the defender. Assuming he attacked first.
>>34388122Either strikes 4-6 should have been one die lower or strikes 1-3 should have been, for off-hand penalty. At any rate, here's what it would have looked like with a smaller flurry, or no flurry at all. First, a single attack:>17 dice, for an average of 8.5 successes, against DV 6. A threshold of 2.5 successes is usually enough to kill.For a flurry of two:>15 and 14 dice, for an average of 7.5 and 7 successes, against a DV of 6 and 5. A threshold of 1.5 and 2 successes. Still enough to kill.For a flurry of three:>14, 13, and 12 dice, for an average of 7, 6.5, and 6 successes, against a DV of 6, 5, and 4. A threshold of 1, 1.5, and 2 successes.And it keeps going on like that, with the attacks at the end having a threshold of 2 successes on average. Is this viable? Sure. But ultimately, you'll just adding more rolling for the sake of rolling, when the final three attacks are all you wanted in the first place. Adding more Rate, adding more Attacks, doesn't help you succeed any harder, you just roll more.What's more, if you're going against an equal opponent, someone who also has a 17 dice pool for defense, with a DV of 8? You're just plain shooting yourself in the foot, taking a bigger - or, at best, equal - penalty on your attack than they are to DV, since your final attack in a flurry will NEVER be quite as accurate as a non-flurried single attack, it will have .5 fewer threshold successes.That's the actual math of mundane flurries.
>>34388276What kind of unarmored people are you fighting when 2,5 successes is enough to kill?Well, I agree that it would work like that, and I generally reserve this kind of fighting to when you have to ping down tough sons of bitches.There is also the matter of the fact that you won't ever roll the average every time, some times your first attack gets 1 success and your last gets six, or something to that effect.
>>34388269You cannot ignore stunts in 2e/2.5e Exalted combat. Ever. They're your mote recovery, and your motes are your health bar, ergo stunts == life.
>>34388237thunderbolt and klaive won't stack in 2.5?
>>34388336I was ignoring it for the sake of simulation and simplicity. I wasn't exactly doing a very comprehensive simulation.
>>34388276To summarize:Mundane flurries are only good for killing people who were ALREADY WAY WORSE THAN YOU at fighting SLIGHTLY faster. A six-attack flurry against an EQUAL opponent - someone against whom you would normally hit with 0 threshold successes on average, someone whose defensive dice pool is the same size as your offensive one, whether 17 and 8. or 13 and 6. - has the following threshold successes:>-3.5>-3>-2.5>-2>-1.5>-1You NEVER hit a net positive unless your opponent is ALREADY enough worse than you that you can easily handle them without resorting to such a fucking stupid tactic as mundane flurries.
>>34388370Except then excellencies and perfect defenses enter the fray, and you can boost some of your attacks to ping in, and unless the defender wants to take damage he has to use more expensive charms than you just did.
>>34388395Don't you know anon? Enemies always have the perfectly optimal defensive lineup, including DV penalty reducers, A step 2 and 7 PD, and a surprise negator.Always.Without fail.
>>34388428Of course, how could I have forgotten!
>>34388428> B != A, therefore !A must imply BDo you even basic propositional logic bro
>>34388428Okay, that was kind of douchy, but seriously.The point is, while there are a lot of ways to reduce the effectiveness of a flurry by an opponent, they wont' always have those.Is a mundane flurry a situational choice? YES.Is a mundane flurry a sub-optimal choice? Depends on the situation.Is a mundane flurry trash? Not at all.
>>34388319>There is also the matter of the fact that you won't ever roll the average every time, some times your first attack gets 1 success and your last gets six, or something to that effect.Which means you're gambling on a mechanically-inferior option because you like to roll more than you like math. Mundane flurries are just plain bad against an equal opponent, and against an opponent who has THAT much lower DV, you're already basically guaranteed to win anyway, and are just speeding things along.>>34388395If we're assuming we're bleeding our enemy dry with a flurry, we're well into the territory of 'WHY THE SHIT ARE YOU NOT USING A MAGICAL FLURRY?' territory, because mundane flurries are BAD.What's more, charms that reset onslaught penalties are usually MUCH cheaper than the cost of boosting an attack in a flurry with an excellency to a functional level.>>34388475>Is a mundane flurry trash?It REALLY is. Its ONLY function is to kill a heavily-armored-but-low-DV opponent SLIGHTLY faster than you were already going to anyway. Enemies with low DVs are bad at fighting, and will lose against someone with a high dice pool, flurry or no.Mundane flurry is a trash option only used to take out trash opponents. Which is, I suppose, terribly appropriate.
>>34388500Maybe my ST has done some behinds the scenes house-ruling or something, because I've never had a flurry be so shitty for me. Odd. I can always hit pretty reliably with them, and for solid damage.
I've never played it, but I've looked at the lore and stuff. I like the Infernals! Have any of you played one?
>>34388535Then you likely have indeed had something happening behind the scenes - or, rather, you had been going up against enemies with FAR lower DVs than was appropriate. Mundane flurries work decently in situations where - like in the above example - you have a dice pool of 17 and your opponent has a DV of 6. But in situations where you don't have a five-dice advantage on your enemy's pool size? It's a BAD option.It's roughly the equivalent of someone in (to use a terrible example) a D&D game who's been using an awful combat option, but thinks it's good because he's been fighting enemies with a CR of half his level.When all you're fighting is weak, shitty enemies, the combat option only good at quickly killing weak, shitty enemies tends to look REALLY nice.
>>34388558Yeah. Infernals are my favorite, but only when the ST plays down the Reclamation angle. I just find their charms and options flavorful and fun.
>>34388590You're also kinda forgetting perfect defenses, mundane flurries are bloody excellent for draining mote pools
>>34388618You really don't need a perfect defense vs a mundane flurry usually, just pop an onslaught negator.
So, I've been replaying Mass Effect 2, and all I can think while playing it is that Shepard is an Abyssal.
>>34388647And that the Illusive Man is his Deathlord.
What would devotees of the goddess Saturn be like?
>>34388647When you put Shepard and Exalted together, all i can think is Glorious Shotgun Princess.Shepard is a Zenith Solar.
>>34387248>You'll be surprised how well it runs if the players aren't assholes of cosmic proportions.Thanks for a free laugh, anon, but did your mother not tell to you that lying on the Internet is bad?Exalted does not run well even with the most restrained players. It is not DnD, where you just can make sure that everyone works on the same level of powergaming, and the game works. In both 1E and 2E Exalted your choices are: (1)Create the One True Build, watch the game fall into a degenerate and boring state.(2)Not create the One True Build, watch your characters explode accidentally, because all sorts of mooks and schmucks can kill them with a bit of luck, and any character who is supposed to be a reasonable challenge probably will reduce their healthbar to "Dead" 100 times over in one round, if played as he was a real person and not a dramatic prop. (3)Not create the One True Build, but instead convince the GM to BOTH play softball and fudge in PCs favor, watch the effort needed to parse through hundreds of Charms and rememer them in-game being absolutely worthless. And I fucking cannot believe that there are still people in the world willing to dispute this glaring truth after developers themselves and their butt-buddies finally admitted to it after years of stubborn denial on forums.
>>34388655A Deathlord who grows visibly more corrupted after his prime Deathknight goes renegade and he starts getting desperate to hardness the setting's deathly powers.Because he wants to redirect the powers of death for control and power, rather than for Oblivion.>>34388664I can dig it, but the whole backstory of ME2? That's practically the definition of Abyssal. A hero with the potential for true greatness gets killed too early and is offered a second chance by a dubious-yet-powerful person with an expansive secret organization?Abyssal. SO Abyssal.
>>34388664Wasn't that a fanfic?
>>34388636The primary use of mundane flurries arises in the following situation:> You're Solar-tier. Your enemy is not Solar-tier.> You've popped IMM and ISE and you're using a Great Daiplank> You're reliably hitting with a couple of the hits out of the flurry every time, because everyone else's negators a shit> Everyone else is therefore multiple perfect or die> People whine to the devs who make stunt-to-perfect allowable because otherwise KER-SPLAT becomes the game's new title> Paranoia combat happens> FUUUUUUUU-
>>34388618>getting, at best, -.5 successes on average by the end of the flurry against an equal opponent>THEY'LL NEED TO PERFECT-DEFENSE A LOT, ANONOr, they'll use an onslaught-negator. Once Charms get brought into the equation, mundane flurries get WAY worse, not better, and you using a mundane flurry instead of a magical one is even less justifiable.
>>34388681But Abyssals are DEFINED by their failure to fulfill their destiny and by dying, curse themselves to a dark and dreary existence when everything they touch rots to nothingness and every time they succeed in something, they lose more of themselves and the things they care about. (Bloody edgy isn't it)That is not the story of Shepard. Her story is of winning against the greatest threat. Of standing against the darkness with her steadfast companions and emerging victorious.
>>34363941Go to bed, Morke.
>>34388636Technically speaking, onslaught penalties only apply from attacks that actually /hit/ you.But that's dumb even in this dumb system, so everyone ignores it.
>>34387248lol>>34371303I like pandabutt
>>34388762Shepard's practically the image of the renegade Abyssal on a redemption quest. Everywhere she goes, people die, and situations fall apart. She's defined, for all of ME2, by her failure against the Collectors, her premature death, her unfortunate attachment to a likely-evil organization.Her attachments are poisoned. Her former allies are driven away.ME1 is the story of an ascending heroic mortal, destined for exalted greatness. ME2 is the story of the mortal cut down too early, made an Abyssal and trying to make things right in spite of that, constantly straining against a Deathlord patron. And ME3 is the story of a redeemed Abyssal trying to save the setting from Oblivion before it's too late, fighting their former Deathlord patron in the process.Shepard's a renegade-turned-redeemed Abyssal. The symmetry is so perfect it hurts.
>>34388186for 2.0 it used to be 15ish for what I estimate was a normal campaign; 25ish for a power campaign and 50ish for a power campaign over 1k xp. For 2.5 its less because there isnt item stacking, but not much less.
>>34388870Man, fuck you. A decent DV is 8. That's 5 from an ability, 5 from an attribute, 3 from a specialty, and 2 from Essence/Defense. 9 is a 'good' DV. 10 is great.That's before charms and anima powers get into it, obviously, but those are good baselines.
A few sessions into a Celestial game, one of my players wants to switch their Lunar over to using the "Terrible Argent Witch" hack. I figure I can gloss over any changes in-game (or make it a big plot event, not sure yet), but I don't whether to give it the okay.1) Does anyone actually have a link to this hack? I've only heard about them from my group.2) Is the hack any good? I'm generally only comfortable with published material, but we've used TheDementedOne's Charms a fair bit, so it wouldn't be the first time using fan-rules. Is it horribly broken, or...?3) Anything else to watch out for, about it?
>>34388664>When you put Shepard and Exalted together, all i can think is Glorious Shotgun Princess.>Shepard is a Zenith Solar.I prefer Shepard as an Eclipse, tbh. She gathers a huge array of different races and factions together, travels across the galaxy in an awesome ship, resolves centuries-old disputes and explores whole new swathes of space.She also works as a Zenith or Dawn, though.
>>34388843I...got nothing. Here, have some cool looking art.
>>34388870>for 2.0 it used to be 15ish for what I estimate was a normal campaign>normal>NORMAL
>>34388590or maybe your opponents have decent DVs but your accuracy is crazy high. When your mundane flurry will cause the same panicked perfect+flurrybreaker or ticklong perfect, why overspend on magic?
>>34388843I like that, anon, I really do.
>>34388897>2 from EssenceWhy would you not have jumped up to Essence 3 asap? It's cheap as chips, has no training time, and opens up most of the good magic.
>>34388956by normal I meant the most common over many people's campaigns, to the best of my knowledge
>>34388897So, you think you can model a "good" defense without using any artifact gear, even just the stuff in the core? Or a shield of any kind, even a mundane one?
>>34388956Dexterity 5 - why would you not, it is godstatMelee 5 - attack and defense, and you'll never be disarmedSpecialty 3 - whatever Melee weapon you're usingExcellency 10 - thank you infinite melee masteryThunderbolt Shield 6 - post-errata, so no equipment stacking, but even with that... not core, but you can go for a tower shield, or moonsilver serpent-sting staff, or moonsilver wavecleaver daiklave, or just go for dodge and add on hearthstone bracersStunt 2 - easy as piss, by designTotal = Parry pool 31, Parry DV 16
>>34388978Just using it as an example.
>>34389074>you'll never be disarmedThat's a bit naive.>Excellency 10 - thank you infinite melee masteryAssuming you're E4
>>34388986Someone with an Orichalcum Reaper Daiklave and a maxed out Attribute, Ability, and Specialty is someone I would say has a 'good' DV, yes. When you start getting into the realm of Gunzosha Commando Armor and Thunderbolt Shields, you're going well beyond merely 'good.'
>>34389118>Thunderbolt ShieldsSo a basic artifact sword is good, but a basic artifact shield (which can technically be created through Glorious Solar Saber) is more than good? Interesting.
>>34389074stunts add directly to dv, 17
>>34389207and chaos targe's the best
>>34389118because spending 3.5 bonus points is so much lol
>>34389111Nah, disarms are like clinches and Bad Touches - immediate perfect. Not worth the risk of slipping through.This, incidentally, is why Broken Toys Riposte is annoyingly useless despite seeming like liquid win.
>>34389074>>34389207>>34389248I bet you think Scorn is a perfectly balanced artifact.
>>34388910It's not bad, but it's kind of weak in some areas. It works a LOT better as an add-on, rather than a replacement.
>>34389111>That's a bit naive.Not really, since a disarming attack is a -2 external penalty, so the attack will fail against my DVAnd if it doesn't, I get a dice pool of 20+ to keep hold of my weapon against what is going to be a small difficultyAnd if I even fail THAT, I can use call the bladeAll this assuming I don't just have a glorious solar saber which can't be disarmed>>34389111>Assuming you're E4Well yeahE3 is chargen or a first purchaseE4 is what you rush for, to get extra DV, infinite mastery, infinite ammo for an archery build (phantom arrow is terrible), wyld cauldron and second circle demonsall that good shithell, post-errata it even gives you a cap-breaker instead of some free combos, which I didn't include
>>34389207When we're talking about DVs? Yes, at that point, someone has gone above and beyond just having a good DV into the realm of great.
>>34389281You think I don't know what is and isn't broken, because I think a basic artifact shield (or a moonsilver version of a few core artifact weapons) isn't a hugely outlandish thing to have? Okay, anon
>>34389300man I'm glad I don't play with you
>>34389300>pool of 20+ to keep hold of my weaponYou realize stopping a disarm is wits+melee right?And I have not once seen anybody rush E4.
>>34389320Hardly, you just seem like a minmaxing faggot to me.
>>34389348ive seen many
>>34389282Could you elaborate on what those weaknesses are? How do you use it as an add-on - is it modular?(also a link from anyone? Googling "Terrible Argent Witch" isn't getting me a download or anything)
>>34389348>You realize stopping a disarm is wits+melee right?Yeah?Wits 5, Melee 5, INFINITE MELEE MASTERY 1020+stunts, +specialty (depends on whether you let "swords" apply to "not losing my sword"), +ability flow, etc>And I have not once seen anybody rush E4.tbh it's not even a case of rushingIts just that E4 is within easy reach at the start of the game, and there's loads and loads of fun stuff thereI mean, any non-DB sorcerer is going to want to get there asap, for example
>>34389367Here you go anon.
>>34389367The three main changes it makes are Shapeshifting, chargen, and Charms.Shapeshifting is based on Revlids mutations, and you should be using it to overwrite base.Chargen is greatly improved, and should also Override Base.The charms, are where things get pretty shitty. There's some really nice ones, but a /lot/ of them are "Okay, that's kind of cool...but why would I ever want to do it?"Off the top of my head, there's one really expensive one to make you count as a CoD. And while I can think of some oddball uses, it's just insanely situational to be it's own charm, and that's just an example. Also, it's got some big gaps in it. Like it's got some good baseline Parry improvers(Use an attack roll to parry, penalty reducers, shatter enemy weapons on a parry, that sort of thing), it doesn't have any high end parry stuff, like Flurry Breakers, or PDs, or whatever. Meanwhile, it's got a ton of high end, kickass dodge shit, but no basics like penatlty reducers or what have you.
>>34389415Hm, this thread has nearly convinced me to purge Infinite Mastery from my games.
>>34389338HahaBecause I can do math?Disarming attacks have always been awfulIf you can hit someone with your attack with two successes to spare, it's much simpler to just do damage to them (and multiply it with success-doublers)Unless you're fighting someone you can trivially defeat anyway, it is WAY harder in exalted to get someone to drop their sword than it is to kill them
>>34389443Pretty sure it has something to do with the minmaxing faggotry.
>>34389418Thank you! I'll give a read through - it's a bank holiday Monday - and then give my verdict to them before this weekend.
>>34389440You really should. It's a shitty, boring charm. It does nothing fun, or new, or exciting. It just breaks shit even more, and exacerbates the already existing problems with the system.
>>34389440Enjoy watching characters burn through motes to fuel their excellencies to a usable level, I guess?
>>34389440Nah. IAMfags are the funniest, because they invariably forget that their IAM Excellency uses count as a Charm use, and they never remember to put together a Combo.This, amongst other reasons, was why 2.5e free Combos was a dumb idea - because it didn't spank IAMfags with a big metal spatula of their own stupid. (It works much better in 3e, mind you.)
>>34389492Man you have a fucked up definition of usable.
>>34389507I think I've seen this guy before. In a thread ages ago, I remember someone saying that since charms are a known thing in universe, every single being in existence who can, will have a paranoia suite, without fail, and refusing to do so isn't running the game right, and tantamount to homebrew.
>>34389440>>34389473>>34389492Eh, on the one hand, a charm with no discreet effects is pretty boring, on the other hand, having a basic 'SWORD HARDER' charm that gives you more dice seems pretty par for the course.And considering combat is to a certain extent about how many dice you can throw, i don't really see the problem.
>>34389462Minimaxing faggotry like taking two basic stats at 5, to represent being olympics-tier in a game where you're supposed to be the best of the best?Or minmaxing faggotry like taking the fourth Charm listed in the corebook and using it exactly as the game tells you to use it?Or minmaxing faggotry like taking the weakened version of a basic, standard-issue artifact, listed in the free errata?I'm not the problem, anon, the system is
>>34389546>i don't really see the problem.Honestly, the biggest problem is that only Solars have it.
>>34389526No, that's dumbI don't tend to play characters without a paranoia suite, mindBut that's just because I'd rather not have to scrape myself off the walls when an NPC's dice roll comes up all tens
>>34389570This all brings us back to the point of not being a ginormous cumguzzling asshole.If everyone in the game takes all these things and you have fun? More power to you.If you're the only one doing this and everyone else is not playing "THE GOD OF SWORDING HARDER" but rather characters instead of a bucket of dice(granted, you can minmax and be a good roleplayer, I just never really see it) then it becomes a problem.
>>34389503>Nah. IAMfags are the funniest, because they invariably forget that their IAM Excellency uses count as a Charm use, and they never remember to put together a Combo.anon, IAM isn't Combo-OK or Combo-BasicYou CAN'T put it in a combo of any kindYou need to get in a safe position and use it to spend an action powering-up (asap)And if you seriously think that free combos were a bad idea you need to choke on your own dick, because they were NOTHING but an xp tax slowing progression to an ugly crawlMy group houseruled it to "spend wp to use a combo, construct combos freely" YEARS before the errata
>>34389648>You CAN'T put it in a combo of any kindHe was talking about invoking the 0m First or Second Excellencies on subsequent rounds. They still count as a charm use, and required combos in 2e.
>>34389503by 2.5 i was already bored killing comboless fags
>>34389648wasnt it errated to basic
>>34389615laughing my ass off hereBecause I'm playing a powerful character, I am clearly a dungeoncrawling rollplayer murderbot out to ruin everyone's funbecause fuck forbid that exalted should involve powerful characterswho are powerful entirely within the limits set by the goddamn corebookwithout using edge cases or dumb sourcebook shit or anything or like thatNo, clearly because I choose to play a guy who is (among other things - I've got 23 other chargen ability dots, f'rex) really good at swords, I am an assholeSorry Zorro, you're a minmaxing faggot, get the fuck out of One piece
>>34389665>He was talking about invoking the 0m First or Second Excellencies on subsequent rounds. They still count as a charm use, and required combos in 2e.He thought that characters would just suddenly forget all the combos they'd been using up until E4?Well, happily I don't play with retards
>>34389703Now I specifically said it wasn't a problem as long as the group agreed to it. Reading Comprehension is tech.
>>34363650why is it such a surprise Solar concepts may be "be the best swordsman in the world, for real"? And actually have the good stuff?
Well, this thread has gone in an unhappy direction.>>34389418>>34389422>>34389472>Shapeshifting is based on Revlids mutations, and you should be using it to overwrite base.I skipped the fluff for now - like all fluff, I'll just take what I like and patchwork it up with my own - just to take a look at the mechanics.Holy shit the shapeshifting is so much better, you're right. I won't need to write up or handwave every fucking animal the Lunar eats in-game. No tell, which is good. Actual animal abilities are cool, but it'll take me a while to read through all the mutations. Are they basically balanced? Or as balanced as the canon ones, anyway?No formlock, though. I'm not sure how that's balanced. Or was whatever formlock balanced out removed? I need to spend some more time reading, I guess.
>>34389794Formlock was always pretty bullshit.
>>34389717Yes, because virtually no-one ever remembered to include Excellencies in defensive combos. Don't ask me why, all I know is I've had a great deal of fun with people who've already used their Excellency-boosted DV go "HGD!" to the next opponent and I get to do my finest shit-eating grin while Bad Touching them to Oblivion. Sometimes literally.
>>34389794>Chargen is greatly improved, and should also Override Base.Chargen is, uh, wow. Going to have to hand her a lot of free dots if I go with this, looks like. Might tweak it downward to avoid that. Not sure about extra Favoured Attributes. That's the majority of her Attributes being favoured.We were already using Solar xp for everyone, so that's fine.These new backgrounds seem okay. The first one's just a renamed Liege, Heart's Blood is basically identical but with xp refunds (yeah, sure), and Borderland isn't going to be relevant yet since they've spent no time in the Wyld.This new Lunar Familiar is FUCKING AWESOME, though. I might offer it to the Solars and the Sidereal with a refluff.She's probably fine with no default moonsilver tattoos, since she's got tattoo armour anyway, and that's in here. No wyld taint isn't really relevant, as she's tattooed. New anima powers are kind of boring, might do something with TheDementedOne's homebrew Lunar anima booster. Or just use the old ones. Or just use the new ones. Don't know. They don't seem broken, anyway, just a bit samey. I don't like the Alchemical ones for the same reason.
>>34389904>New anima powers are kind of boring, might do something with TheDementedOne's homebrew Lunar anima booster. Or just use the old ones. Or just use the new ones. Don't know. They don't seem broken, anyway, just a bit samey. I don't like the Alchemical ones for the same reason.I do like that they're called "Phases", though. Are Lunars the only non-Solars who actually have Castes, in canon?No, Alchemicals have Castes. Heh. They ought to have Casts instead. pun pun punLunacy looks like it could be a lot of fun, or a total nightmare to ST. I just cloned Solar Limit Breaks into Sidereals, mostly, since Sid limit is dumb. Might do the same for Lunars, depending. This could lead to some serious party issues if it's not played right. But then, I guess Solar Limit does, too. We'll see.
>>34389961>Are Lunars the only non-Solars who actually have Castes, in canon?Sidereals, and DBs have Aspects. Literally every released Exalt type has some sort of Caste.
>>34389961Hum. Locking Eclipses out of learning any Lunar Charms? Interesting. I mean, I guess they already couldn't learn Knacks, but... Well, our Solars are a Night and a Twilight, so it doesn't matter much.Dice cap boost. Makes me wonder if Relentless Lunar Fury's still going to be here, or if it does something different. Either way, might keep Fury and ditch the changed dice cap. I see what people mean about this hack being modular.New keywords seem fine. Holy clone is Holy clone (Lunars have actual Holy Charms in canon, don't they?), and the "Anchored" effects look like they could be neat. Kind of surprised those keywords don't already exist, actually.
>>34390056No, I mean, Solars/Abyssals/Infernals have Castes. Sidereals don't have Castes - or at least, they aren't really called that very much - they have "Chosen of". Houses, I guess, or Colleges?Dragon-blooded have Aspects. Which I think are sometimes called Castes, but again, it's a different name.Then Lunars have Castes, just like Solars. Kind of weird they don't have a different name like everyone else, is what I mean.Also, only just noticed that the No Moons got changed to the New Moons. Weird change.
>>34390058>Janna?, Ahri, Orianna, Karma, LeBlanc, Annie, Sona, Irelia, ?, Akali, Ashe, CaitlynI'm pretty sure that first one's Janna, no idea who the fourth from the right is supposed to be. Could easily be exalted characters though, i suppose.
>>34390108Sidereals are also called Castes. Like, in standard exalted the only ones that don't are Dragonblooded, with their aspects.
>>34390058Yep. Night Caste, Twilight Caste, Gold Faction Chosen of Journeys, Changing Moon
>>34389590Sidereals have a cheaper version (Propitious (Ability) Alignment) which adds the same amount of successes if used in conjunction with the errata'd 2nd Excellency. The downside is that they can only have one up in a scene at a time.
>>34390135Morgana after Irelia.
>>34390108>Also, only just noticed that the No Moons got changed to the New Moons. Weird change.'New Moon' is what that phase is actually called in real life. 'No Moon' is the one that's fucking weird.
>>34390081New Excellencies are... I'm not good enough to work out if they're good or not. Obvious past a certain dice cap is an interesting idea. They've got an IAM equivalent that drops them into warform, which is a cool way of doing it - is an actual warform in here somewhere? I guess in practical terms there's not much difference.None of the group are at E4 yet, or have any interest in IAM, so I'm not sure if this'll actually see any use, is a problem.
>>34390317>is an actual warform in here somewhere?There's a shapeshifting form for having a hybrid body, but it's REALLY a better idea for you to not think of these guys in terms of vanilla Lunars.
>>34390284Ah, it was the skintone that threw me off, and the lack of glowing eyes.So, in order:Air DragonbloodedChosen of Serenites OR Changing Moons LunarJade? Orichalcum? Alchemical.Sidereal (Serenities or Journies, I'd say, maybe)AbyssalInfernalSolarSolarInfernalHeroic MortalHeroic MortalHeroic Mortal
>>34390310Huh. Didn't realize.>>34390317>>34389418Okay, wow, I don't think I really understood before that this was a full rewrite, rather than a hack. This is meant to completely replace the Lunar Charmset? Shit, that's a lot of reading.Let's look at Strength for now.Movement Charms in Strength? That's... interesting? Not where I would have expected them, but I guess Dexterity gets a lot of love, and Strength is used in Jumping, so...Sky-Bounding Might is really cool. Reminds me of Prototype. Gravity Intimidation Tactic just reminds me of that one Sonic Adventure 2 level.Body-Optimized Pursuit is a modified Solar Charm, I think, like Sky-Bounding Might so it should be fine? Object-in-Motion Technique is pretty awesome, but I'm not sure how useful it would actually be. If Biting at the Heels works the way I think it does, it's a cool idea - surprised to see Overdrive though, this must be pretty new.Damage Charms are more what I expect out of Strength. Monstrous Force Technique looks like a modified Solar Charm, again, so that's fine. Upgrade is neat. I guess it's supposed to replace Impressions of Strength, and I kind of miss the Edges for that Charm, but never bought more than two anyway.Planting Battered Skulls isn't going to get used because she's a social character. It's kind of cartoony, like the delinquent-comedy scene of people stuck in the ceiling. Bit like Object-in-Motion, actually.Oh, and now we get the real Impressions of Strength 2.0 with Transgressive Blast Strike. It's fine, I guess? Reminds me of an Alchemical Strength Charm.Herd-Shredding Hurricane is Peony Blossom Attack. Its upgrade is insane, though. I don't have to worry about her using it, but it looks crazy-strong.Going to start skipping through these, since there's a lot of Charms, and she's Changing Moon. Was this why they dumped loads of extra Attribute dots and Favoured Attributes on people? To get them to cast the net wider?
>>34390348>There's a shapeshifting form for having a hybrid body, but it's REALLY a better idea for you to not think of these guys in terms of vanilla Lunars.It's that different? So far it just looks like buffs and rearrangements of stuff they already had. I guess it gets weirder deeper into the Charms?One thing I am noticing is a lot more "shapeshifting" flavour, which is nice. We stunt that in anyway, but it's good to actually have it in the Charms.
>>34390584like I said, charms is where you don't want to replace. There's some great stuff, but also a lot of holes, and a lot of worthless chaff.
>>34389418>>34390584Mutilation Charms (still on Strength) are seriously buffed from old Lunar Crippling Charms, but still basically recognizable. I like them, but are they supposed to be as strong as Solars? There's one that literally replaces an Abyssal Charm as unofficial "errata".Dawn of War reference in Serene Disaster Crash, el oh el.Ah, here's the Parry stuff that >>34389422was talking about.>Like it's got some good baseline Parry improvers(Use an attack roll to parry, penalty reducers, shatter enemy weapons on a parry, that sort of thing), it doesn't have any high end parry stuff, like Flurry Breakers, or PDs, or whatever.Hm. I don't see the weapon breaker or the attack-roll to parry thing? And there's a perfect defense right there, plus a whole flurry-counterattacker (cool alternative to leaping away from a flurry, actually). Is this a different doc?There's a reference to a Charm that doesn't exist, but re-reading makes me think it's referring to the Perfect Defense Charm, so I guess it got renamed at some point.Anti-clinch Charm is pretty Proteus.Holy shit, an actual Lunar vehicle Charm? Not running Modern, so it's useless.Weapon Charms start off with a two-purchase answer to Claws of the Silver Moon/Glorious Solar Saber. Not much to object to, except that they're a bit grosser than usual... but I guess Wolverine's claws are pretty gross when you actually think about them. Actually reminds me more of Prototype, again, with the blade-arm. Then a Phantom Arrow clone, which is good for any Lunars who actually want to do ranged.Heaven-Scraping Weapon Practice is just straight-up 3rd Gear. No idea how to balance minimum damage in 2.5e, so I'll leave it alone.
>>34390730>like I said, charms is where you don't want to replace. There's some great stuff, but also a lot of holes, and a lot of worthless chaff.Yeah, but I'm not seeing it so far. I mean, granted, I just finished Strength, but... it covered pretty much everything canon Strength did. No real holes, no particularly "niche" stuff. The Lunar in question is a strictly social "oh how kawaii" kitsune-type, so she's not going to use most of the Strength stuff, but in principle it all seems usable.Does it just start getting weird deeper in, or...?
>>34390859Maybe that's a newer version. Strength is pretty straightforward though, so do let us know as you get deeper in. Appearance and Wits and the like was where it got weird in the last version.
>>34389418>>34390819Anyway, on to Dexterity. Want to speed this up a bit, going to skim-read even more.Attack stuff. Solar clone, I'm pretty sure. I'll need to go back and check if the Strength Charms were close range only, actually. Then... haha, Rip Van Winkle, how the fuck is that balanced? Isn't there a Sidereal Charm that does this, or am I misremembering? I think our Journeys wanted it. And another Peony Blossom Attack clone, sort of. Ranged-only.Dodge Charms. Basic dodge penalty negators, flurry breaker, etc. Perfect defence keying off darkness - she might actually use that. Smoke bomb Charm, pretty ninja, not sure if the blindness is balanced. Lots of /weird/ stuff to do with Defend Other and Co-ordinate Attack. Looks useful, just... not prepared to actually work out how it's supposed to be used atm.Charm that lets me use any part of me as a hand. Interesting - can't I just grow more hands? I'm a Lunar. I guess this is like a non-broken version of Octopus-and-Spider Barrage, though? Stealthy pickpocket Charm... Hah, a Charm that lets me unlock a door from the inside, or attack someone from behind from the front. That's a COOL idea.Mention of a Charm called Distance-Mocking Shadow Step, but I don't see it. Is there a supplementary document, or something?Lingering Shimmer Suspicion is sweet, lets me pull off the Kennedy Assassination. Walls-No-Obstacle Prana is a Solar Larceny clone, I think, refluffed as Dracula. I guess Lunars should actually be able to do that.
>>34391015>Solar clone, I'm pretty sure.You're very wrong.
>>34389418>>34391015Huh. Elsewhere stuff in Dexterity. Isn't that normally in Wits? Weird that they'd dump MORE into the best stat.Sleight of Shape is sweet. Another one she might like. Bottomless Pockets Legerdemain makes a lot of sense, in terms of why it's in Dex, but it could also work in Wits. Mention of "Dreaming Heart World", which must be another cut Charm - this doc needs links or something.Box of Impossibilities is a straightforward Elsewhere-storage booster. Shuffling Useful Treasures is, holy shit, the only Charm I've ever seen that actually makes good use of attunement motes.And then two ports from Shards, iirc. That's fine. Not Modern, so not really relevant.Next up, Stamina, then I get onto the actual Changing Moon stuff.
>>34391044The one I was looking at was>NOTQUITETHERE ATEMI>Cost: 3m; Mins: Dexterity 3, Essence 2; Type: Supplemental>Keywords: ComboOK, Obvious>Duration: Instant>Prerequisite Charm: Any Dexterity Excellency>Arrows and blades are stirred into hunting life when infused with the anima of the Lunar Exalted. This Charm nullifies all penalties applying to a single attack, save wound and multiple action penalties. The strike physically twists, or seems to distort as though refracte by water. Ranged attacks can be even more drastically affected, as arrows sprout dragonfly wings to dip down over a wall.Isn't that just There Is No Wind, but without the range-booster?
>>34389418>>34391075Stamina. Ooh, Knack-a-likes. Hybrid Nue Transformation is just a non-broken Hybrid Body Adaptation. Just an update. Change-Accepting Adaptation is much cooler than IPP, and not as overwhelmingly perfect. I like it a lot. The two other Charms are pretty sweet anti-Crippling effects - very Lunar.Not sure how appropriate the two anti-Sickness effects are (plague rats are more Abyssal, no?) but they're a solid defense and don't seem too cheap. Searing Hydra Blood Immunity is really cool, though. Night Breeze Sigh is an update to an existing Lunar Charm, isn't it? Fertile Breath Inversion. Just much stronger, and useful for the whole Circle, which is sweet. I guess the implication of the second purchase is that regaining motes is /literal/ respiration?A Charm to spontaneously gain Specialties is weird, but I guess I can see the logic in it being in Stamina. Not sure why they're not Attribute Specialties, though.All the soak-boosting stuff is a lot weaker, but canon Lunars have the best soak in the game, so I guess it's meant as a deliberate nerf? Haven't compared it to errata'd Solar Resistance, but I bet it's balanced off that. Still, the slow buildup is a cool Lunar-y thing, and the "adapt to damage" Charm looks much more balanced than the canon version, which was daft.Lunar Ox-Body. Looks like a half-way house between the Solar and Infernal versions. Fair enough, since Lunars generally have good wound negators. Not sure what's up with the name, though.Accelerated healing. Not combat-time, more like warform-tier. Interesting enough. I think Tenacious Moon-Beast Zagama (these names, wtf) is supposed to upgrade the previous Charm, not the Stamina Excellency, and if so it looks like a different take on By Pain Reforged. Then actual combat healing, which is much needed. No real lethal healing, which I guess is supposed to work with TMBZ - also some weird costing stuff based on how hurt you are, which could actually be interesting.
>>34389418>>34391574Still on Stamina, we've got a temporary health level Charm. No idea how balanced it is, I've never seen that mechanic in use. It's pretty clearly just a setup for the Alucard "burn your shapes to stay alive" Charm, anyway, which is a neat idea. I never really saw the Heart's Blood Library get any use as a "resource" in canon.And a Stamina perfect defense. Holy hell, that's 3 PDs across 3 Attributes. Is this just the physical stuff, or is there one in EVERY Attribute?
>>34391599>>34389418Finally, we're on Changing Moon Attributes. Shame there wasn't any ridiculously strong poison stuff in Stamina, just Hydra Blood, but I guess "ridiculously strong" was too strong? Eh.Charisma, up first. Canon Charisma is mostly Performance and War, plus some Dr. Dolittle stuff.Passionate Cameo Exultation looks like an Irresistible Salesman Spirit clone with a more Lunar slant. I like the focus on intimacies that Lunars have, I guess they're using that.Someone's Hero Assurance is pretty sweet (as in, adorable). She's the Mate of our Night, so it might find some use there. I think this is a straight-up Mako Mankanshoku Charm, actually.Love-Bought Loyalty is another Solar near-clone with a more Lunar slant. There seems to be a LOT of that going around. I guess it's a pretty good way to do things, provided you put in enough actual slant, and have some neat fluff to keep it distinct. That's basically what Alchemicals does a lot of.Argent Avenger Selfishness is another Overdrive Charm. They're pushing that a lot, but we haven't really got much use out of it. It should be "ARDENT Avenger Selfishness", anyway.Night Bridging Beacon is a pretty funny take on Sun and Moon Method (which I retconned out of existence along with the mechanical bond, because ugh). Turns it into a literal loving-stalker Charm.Huh. They actually kept the bond as a mechanical thing, just turned it into a set of Charms. Okay, these are actually pretty useful. A bit Infernal, I think for some reason, but I guess Lunars got there first, and you can't ditch intimacies like Adorjan. Straightforward, deliberate, pretty strong, not Solar-exclusive... yeah, I could definitely see her using these.
>>34391777>>34389418"Command" Charms, which is where most of the proper updates for canon Lunar Charisma will probably show up.A teamwork/war booster - I have never actually used the teamwork rules, but they might find use if she takes this Charm. She probably won't, though - more of a persuader than a commander. Then a CRM booster - haven't used those rules yet, either, but the Twilight's looking at it, so we'll see.Moon Messiah Fever seems like a holy-shit-weak version of Taboo-Inflicting Diatribe. Can't see that getting use.Border-Warden Authority is much better than Dog-Tongue Method.Persuasive World-Whisper is WEIRD. In a good way. Is this the sort of stuff you were talking about? I don't think I mind it. "I can speak to anything, so I can order inanimate objects around" is pretty straightforward. Sorcerer's Apprentice-style. I have no idea how powerful it is, but she might want to take it on cool points alone.Territory Charms? They were in Wits in canon, I believe. We start off with a Solar Performance clone with a bit more Snow White in it - she'll DEFINITELY be taking that.Then an environmental hazard defense. Was there not one in Stamina? I forget. It makes sense to have it after the previous Charm, in an Infernal sort of way, but as a straightforward effect it doesn't belong in Charisma. Yeah, we're definitely entering weird territory. Useful, though.Weather manipulation. This isn't the sort of effect that really fits into an Ability or Attribute, so I guess it goes wherever the Charm tree logic suits it? Which in this case is Charisma. Fair enough. Not sure she'll be taking it.Then two territory-boost Charms. They're actually pretty cool. I like them, and again, if it's going to go somewhere, it might as well go in Charisma. Its the Attribute for leading people. I think the first might be a clone of an Infernal effect? I vaguely remember it from somewhere, maybe Kimbery?Tellurian Steward Spirit is a cool mote-expansion effect.
>>34391935>>34389418So, Charisma got a little weird toward the end, but was pretty conventional mostly, and even the weird stuff made SENSE being where it was.Manipulation, now. Hopefully there's stuff there for more subtle social Lunar-ing."Price" Charms, first. Three Solar Bureaucracy almost-clones that she'll like, and a weird bit of bargain-stealth that vaguely reminds me of that one Ebon Dragon Charm, but less dickish. Solid."Transgression" Charms are two scar Charms - more useful updates of that one Lunar canon scar Charm, I guess, with more of a focus on MDV and grudges. Then a pure "fuck you I'm not moving" Parry MDV booster. Cap-breaker, actually, but it looks like it'll chew up motes if you use it too much. It's a cool idea, but I'd want to compare it to other mental defense stuff."Temptation" Charms. Proud Preacher Invitation has the potential to be hilarious. She'll want that. Might even use on the party. Tempting Crimson Treasures and its upgrade are a bit complicated, but looks useful enough. She'll probably get it for being all kitsune-y.Connoisseur Testimony Technique is a bit long, but looks just like a buffed port of Treasure as Trash, that Charm from Glories.Ill-Shuffled Poker Face is neat, but I'm not sure what it's doing in that place in the tree.Crimson-and-Silver Tongue is WEIRD. I guess it's meant to be a magical date-rape drug Charm, or something? Certainly fits in Manipulation, the dickhead of social traits. She might actually take this one just for dinner parties.
I'm going to keep posting regardless, because it's helpful for keeping my thoughts in line, but is anyone actually interested in this?>>34392155>>34389418"Contract" Charms. Shape-Purchasing Bargain is actually really sweet, if you normally need to kill someone to get their shape. I wonder if the usual "sex or drink their blood" options are around? Clearly based on that one Cecelyne Charm, anyway. Form-Bartering Method is an update of that one knack. Whatever. Faith-Bribe Partnership is... WEIRD, again. Good for buffing our Circle or fucking with gods, though. Prayer is Charisma, but this is more of a Manipulative way of praying, so I guess it makes sense here. The Chosen of Journeys might want her to play around with it if she's got spare xp. Opiate of the Adored is straight-up godfuck, though. Not sure why it even exists.Eclipse Oath-Swearing as a Charm. Well, she'll definitely want that, and we don't have an actual Eclipse in-Circle, so I guess it's not a problem. I'd be warier if that weren't the case, though.Lunar Wyld-Shaping what the hell. And it's in Manipulation? What the hell?Oh, huh. It doesn't actually let you shape the Wyld into Creation. You just alter the Wyld, you don't actually give it a proper shape. That's more Lunar-y. Still feels like it should be in Intelligence or something. Not sure why a repurchase lets you use it in the Underworld. Bizarre. I'll need to compare it to Wyld-Shaping Technique and see if it does anything that Charm can't, because otherwise I think she'll just ignore this and let the Twilight have his fun.
>>34392238>I'm going to keep posting regardless, because it's helpful for keeping my thoughts in line, but is anyone actually interested in this?I like it.
>>34392238>>34389418And we're onto Appearance. Here's where>>34390888said it started to get weird, so let's keep our eyes peeled for things even weirder than weather-manipulation in Charisma and wyld-shaping in Manipulation."Shapeshifting" Charms up first, so I guess this is where the Knacks went.Oh, wow. I didn't realize totems had been hacked out of the basic Lunar package and turned into a Charm. Well, these ones are much cooler (part and parcel of the improved shapeshifting, really), so I don't mind so much, but I might give this Charm to her for free in exchange for nerfed chargen.Faster shapeshifting, shapeshifting for overdrive, Prototype-stealth-replacement shapeshifting, Eldritch-Secrets-Mastery shapeshifting, superhuman senses-defeating shapeshifting (how are you supposed to detect a Lunar in a fake form, exactly?). All pretty standard.Prejudice Dissolution Morphology is a mouthful, but it's also the most distinct thing in the bunch. Opens up basic shapeshifting extras like Twin-Faced Hero and Changing Plumage Mastery (renamed), plus some new ones, but also comes with SJW mental influence, which is actually pretty suitable for Lunars. She'll like these."Faceless" Charms. A Solar Stealth almost-clone, then Identity-for-Icon Exchange, which is a weirdly appealing Batman Charm - make yourself a symbol, Mr. Wayne.Another hacked Solar Stealth (or is it Infernal Stealth? I've seen something near-identical before, I know that much), and an updated version of that one Glories Charm, but working with shapeshifting rather than being an Illusion. This is actually nice - I like all this shapeshifting as part of the Charmset, rather than this separate thing using totally different mechanics.And we finish on... Shadow Clone no Jutsu. Huh. Not sure why this is in Appearance? Or why it's really a Lunar thing? Whatever. She might want it, actually. She's got the Appearance.
>>34392238>but is anyone actually interested in this?Yeah, I'm reading your thoughts. I kind of disagree on a few minor spots, but your opinions are all fair and interesting, plus I don't have intimate knowledge of TAW
>>34392389>(how are you supposed to detect a Lunar in a fake form, exactly?)Essence Sight and as an ST I'd probably let Eye of the Unconquered Sun or whatever the awareness 5 charm is pick up on it
>>34392310Cool!>>34392389>>34389418"Beauty" Charms, which you'd think might be the whole point of Appearance. World's Edge Aesthetics is a cool idea, but I don't know how useful it'll actually be. Basically makes you extra-sexy to mutants, raksha and crazy people.Although they're actually about to go up against the Silver Prince, and I think it technically also affects ghosts and Abyssals, so... might actually be useful.Elegance Beyond Imagining is a straight Perfect Symmetry port, I believe. Then we have... a crafting Charm? In Appearance? Okay, that IS weird. It's basically Craftsman Needs No Tools, but focused entirely on producing artwork (or "things of beauty") rather than useful stuff. Weird. She miiight pick it up if she's got xp spare (unlikely), since she qualifies for the autoupgrade that lets you just *wham* complete a piece of artwork, and it lets you basically ignore Linguistics.Aaand the upgrade makes it make more sense, since it lets you hide surprise social attacks in your artwork and poems and such. Go go gadget cult statue, I guess? Still seems really weak compared to stuff like Craftsman Needs No Tools and Letter Within A Letter Technique.
>>34392444>Essence SightThere's a Charm for that. Same as the Ebon Dragon and Solar disguise effects that fool Essence Sight.Eye of the Unconquered Sun definitely works, but you can't have it up 24/7.>>34392421>Yeah, I'm reading your thoughts. I kind of disagree on a few minor spots, but your opinions are all fair and interestingDo please comment on those spots. That's why I'm posting - to get feedback on things I've missed, so I can avoid pitfalls if I actually use this.(at the moment it looks like I pretty much will be using this - there's no major holes or anything I really miss, so far, and I'm sure I can put any canon stuff the player misses straight back in, like default totem-shapes)
>>34392570>Solar disguise effects that fool Essence Sight.What's that? I thought only the TED charms did that.
>>34390430Pretty sure Ashe would still count as an Air-Aspect Dragonblood. Akali could even be Night Caste Solar. There aren't really any Heroic Mortals in the game, considering they are all close enough in power to compete with each other.I'd also say Sona is a Chosen of Serenity rather than a Solar.
>>34392521>>34389418"Fantasy" Charms. Beautiful Nightmare Glance lets you make a silent social attack that hits the target when they next sleep - I guess it's supposed to be "who was that beautiful girl?!" She'll pick this up, if I'm any judge.Beloved Night-Oracle Technique seems broken as hell, since it lets you make a social attack into the dreams of anyone with an intimacy toward you, or an intimacy toward the shape you're currently wearing. If I eat your wife, I can send you wet dreams of her, from any distance, for as long as you've got that intimacy.Thought-Sweeping Eyelash Broom is another "what a bombshell" Charm. There's some serious cartoon stuff throughout this Charmset, and this is the one where the tongue rolls out of the mouth and the eyeballs pop out of the head. You're so sexy people forget what they were doing.Enticing Lullaby Mien is kind of out of place. I guess it fits as "lull people into a false sense of security", but it also sends you to sleep, which... well, I guess it's pretty Lunar. Hypnosis and all that. Waking Dream Freedom completely abandons Appearance, though, and is just about convincing people they're asleep and this whole thing is a dream. That looks fun, but why is it in Appearance? It's a lie, so it should be in Manipulation, surely? Is there some kind of really strong theming going on here, that I've somehow missed, which means all dream-stuff goes into Appearance? I guess Manipulation was focused on "bargains" pretty much to the exclusion of anything else, actually - even the defense and wyld-shaping stuff was flavoured as a bargain. Weird.Anyway, we're out of Appearance. Weirdest thing was the two sleep/dream Charms at the end, so it was pretty straightforward overall.Actually, no.Weirdest thing was that it had so many Charms. Canon Lunars have what, less than ten?Yeah, I think we'll be using this, since she's got high Appearance. It actually gives her a lot of options to play with.
>>34392593Perfect Mirror does it.Does anyone want me to carry on to New Moon Charms, now I've decided we'll be using this hack?
>>34389418That's an old versionLatest version is in a Google doc with bookmarkshttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1P2AuLM6D1Et9mWQVJp-ugWujFJhTi2VwQBtOazOW1Mg
>>34388843Leviathans = Second and Third Circle DemonsReapers = Hekatonkhire...kinda.
>>34392570>Do please comment on those spotsNone of them are balance issues, just, things about TAW I wouldn't want in my game, like the depiction of Lunars as more Protean, Prototypish things. I always think of altering your form, instead of switching forms, as a really high ess lunar thing (or chimera) and it's a base assumption of TAW, and I just don't like it.
>>34388870How do you even get a DV of 50?The highest I've ever gotten at around 1000xp was a DV of 30 using only canon Charms, and my Solar had the highest DV of the Circle.
>>34392731>I always think of altering your form, instead of switching forms, as a really high ess lunar thing (or chimera)Really? I mean, it's right there in stuff like Hybrid Body Rearrangement or Deadly Beastman Transformation. I guess I just like the idea that... if a Lunar wants to hit someone hard, he makes his fist bigger. If a Lunar wants to fly, he grows wings. If a Lunar wants to hear better, he shifts his ears into animal-y ears. That sort of thing. That's what TAW seems to cater to - shapeshifting as THE Lunar power, rather than Lunars being superhumans who ALSO shapeshift - so I can see why they wouldn't appeal if you didn't like that.Honestly, though, there's not as much Prototype-y stuff as I was led to believe. I thought it was going to be hoboshoggoth left, right and centre, from the descriptions. Instead, there's been one Strength Charm that reminded me of the armblade power, one generic "powerfall" Charm which is something Mercer does, and one stealth-replace Charm that's also something Mercer can do.He was probably an inspiration, and from what I've seen you could definitely play him (albeit with more of an animal slant than a grody-virus-crap slant) but it's not even that prominent.
>>34388910Earthscorpion, bless his well-written heart, really wanted to make TAW a legitimate replacement to canon Lunar Charms. Revlid, his partner in the system, knew better.I think this is the most recent version:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P2AuLM6D1Et9mWQVJp-ugWujFJhTi2VwQBtOazOW1Mg/edit?pli=1It is extremely good and my table loves it, but not as a replacement. As an add-on to canon Lunar Charms, it is amazing and fun and awesome. In fact, I'd even go as far as to say it's better than TDO's stuff on average.
>>34392968Alrighty then!>>34392661>>34389418Perception. Uncanny Sense Practice and Inhuman Sense Observation are more near-Solar ports, but with cool animal flavour. Might be a bit more powerful, actually. Impossibility's Arrival is a straightforward surprise negator.Organ-Sense Separation is weird - you can use any part of your body as any sensory organ. Fingertips as eyes, etc. Not WEIRD-weird, it's clearly a Perception effect and it even suits Lunars, but it's clearly not a Solar-OK effect, let's put it that way. Sense-Gifting Spy Method is the logical progression of that Charm."Mystic" Charms will probably be more updates of canon stuff. Sense immaterial spirits, hit immaterial spirits, kill immaterial spirits... Plus Essence sight.On the less standard end of things we've got "sense Outsiders", which is necessary and expected, an anti-Outsider overdrive, and sensing insanity. There's also an effect to inflict craziness, which I guess works with a theme of "seeing things man should not see", and follows on pretty well from "detect crazy"."Glint" Charms start off with Night Lantern Hitodama, which is a cool name for a cool Charm. Create a light which only you and your friends can see/see by. That's sweet and simple. Ebony Moth Maneuver and Ivory Butterfly Glimpse for some Batman-style distraction antics. Hidden Devil Parade is a cool Perception effect - basically a spotlight on anyone you can see. And Crushing Gorgon Glare, which is a ranged laser-eyes clinch that turns people to stone, what the hell. I don't know if that's broken or not, but I'm leaning toward yes because of Mind-Hand Manipulation."Vantage" Charms. Unknown Angle Clairvoyance lets you see through nearby walls and similar. Varied Perspective Prana lets you see line-of-sight cones, MGS-style - a lot of Stealth-aiding stuff here in Perception. Secret Path Step and its upgrade don't have anything to do with Perception in a literal sense - they're Corvo's Blink from Dishonoured. Weird.
>>34393478>>34389418That was Perception done in one swoop, so it's Intelligence next. Lunars have never had very good Intelligence Charms, so let's see what they do here. Hopefully a repeat of Appearance.Starts with "Madness" Charms, which is appropriate given that they're Moon people.Improbable Not Impossible is basically a narrower version of Elusive Dream Defense, but the way its slanted means there's more potential for, well, fishmalking. Hurr durr I'm so crazy el oh el. Well, we'll see.Clay-Steel Confusion is ridiculously useful. Moreso than an actual "transform this material" Charm, in a local sense. It lets you and only you treat one substance as another. This wall? Water. This ground? Firedust. That sword? Cotton wool. There's so much room to be creative here it's crazy. Might be too good, on that front.Self-Deluding Utility Beliefs is more standard - hypnotize yourself into thinking one object is another object, use it appropriately. Shoot people with your stapler, etc. This is all weird stuff, make no mistake, but it follows on pretty straightforwardly in terms of theme, and "manipulate materials and tools" has always been Intelligence's bailiwick, so it's good they've made it appropriate.Butterfly Genius Coalescent is a straightforward plan/craft/research booster, with a neat twist and a flavouresome downside that probably won't much come into play. I like it. Its upgrade is a lot harder to assess, though, because I'm not hugely familiar with thaumaturgy. It's certainly an amusing mad inventor Charm, but how useful it actually is, I don't know.
>>34393816>>34389418"Meditation" Charms. Starts off with Studies In Ignorance, which is a whole Charm for doing that Zach Braff imagination head-tilt in Scrubs to ignore people. That's two social defense Charms in Intelligence already. Fuck Integrity, I guess? No idea what that does to dice caps, not really sure why I'd take it. Maybe the writer didn't realize that Willpower counts as an Attribute?Mind-River Tributary Technique is a totally sweet "split my thoughts" Charm, and Memory Mansion Method is right out of Sherlock. Much cooler than Counting the Elephant's Wrinkles, both perfectly suited to raw expressions of Intelligence.Dreaming Heart World and Secret Path Practice are the updates for the Lunar Elsewhere dens that used to be in Wits. I always loved those. This actually makes a fair bit more sense, though, and comes with some ace flavour."Philosopher" Charms start with Migrating Tongue Panglossia, which overlaps a bit with Border-Warden Authority, but is the only "instantly learn a language" Charm I know of in this game, and comes with an appropriate drawback.Other Mimicking Thoughts is some weird "get inside your enemy's head" tech. Like a Lunar version of Nemesis Self Imagined Anew, sort of. Could be useful. Really useful for disguise, actually, since picking up on odd behaviour is the only thing there's no Charm to invalidate when looking for a shapeshifted Lunar. Viper In Nest Stratagem carries on by being basically a Lunar Soul Crack Exploitation.Fire-Circling Heart Technique and its upgrade are... neat. Weird, look initially more suited to Charisma or something, but neat. "Treat people you don't like as not being people", basically. And teach others to do the same. With "raksha" always being an option to treat as not-people. Fuck raksha.
>>34394020>>34389418Last is "Harvest" Charms. Beast-Mind Transfusion and its upgrade allow you to make intelligent animals (and then objects). That's something Lunars obviously do, and it makes sense that it'd be in Intelligence rather than Charisma. I'm not sure the Eclipse Phase-style "these are forks of you" angle was necessary, but I can roll with it. I guess they like transhuman ideas. Exalted is full of them already, why not?Blood Lessons Learned and its upgrade are just an update of that one Lunar Charm to let you taste memories in blood. Can't remember what it's called. In practical terms, I guess this is another Mercer effect.And that's Intelligence done. So far, nothing hugely out of place - weirdest thing was the Elsewhere den stuff, and that made more sense than canon, where it's in Wits for some reason.
>>34394111>And that's Intelligence doneWhoops, no, wait, there's another. Sorcery Charms.Terrestrial Sorcery, Sapphire Sorcery (weird they don't call it Celestial). Then both Shadowlands and Labyrinth Necromancy, which is interesting! Lunars normally only get Shadowlands, unless I'm misremembering.Then a neat sort of "initiation" Charm, to let you cast Sorcery as Necromancy and vice-versa. In practical terms, the main use seems to be to make it harder for people with only Sorcery or Necromancy at a certain level to dispel your magic - for instance, cast all your Sorcery as Necromancy, and Dragon-blooded and most Sidereals are fucked for countermagic. Plus some side effects, but I'm explicitly going to have to come up with those myself on a spell-by-spell basis, and she's not even initiated yet.And then an Absorption, holy shit I haven't even seen these MENTIONED since the Black & White Treatises. I can't compare it to the others, but it looks like something a Sorcerer might take and not regret it (without being in the "either useless or broken" category like the old No Moon anima). Also does stuff with Necromancy, which is unique for Absorptions. Called out as a Raksi-patented Charm, so I guess she's still around in this.
>>34394234While you're at it, you might want to look at the original TAW, on top of Revilid's rewrite. I like most of what he did, but there's some charms he left behind (like the Lunar Charisma charm that lets you be awesome at using Essence Cannons) and the anima powers are different.
>>34394234>>34389418So, last but not least, drumroll, its Wits! Which is a wriggly sort of Attribute that mainly seems to be "Intelligence/Perception, but fast" with bits of Dexterity. Whatever, let's see what Charms they came up with."Weakness" Charms. Predator-Sage Deduction and its older brother look like specialized Perception Charms, to help you pick out someone's weak spots. Good enough for Wits.Word-Knife Debate Tactic seems really weak, but I guess it's a cheap source of umi. Cleverness Betrays is ANOTHER No Moon MDV-calculation-modifier. Which also lets you do a read motivation on the one talking to you. She'll definitely want this. Remark-Twisting Rebuke is the only social counterattack I've ever seen, and actually gets given a Solar counterpart in Linguistics right here in the doc. Neat plan. The Night Caste might want that, and she'll definitely want the original.Then we've got "Corrosion" Charms, which are distinct from "Weakness" Charms... somehow. Lot of negativity here in Wits.Cascading Failure Thrust lets you do the Rube Goldberg collapse, where you punch a single brick and watch the whole wall come down, then go "oops". That's actually pretty neat. Not sure why it's in Wits, but I guess they're running with the whole "see weak spots" thing.Wasabi Construction Method (that name???) is another Craft effect - I guess I can forgive it being in Wits because it's a No Moon attribute and they're crafters, plus it carries from its prerequisite pretty well, and it itself is a cool Charm - take stuff apart to make new stuff. Reuse, recycle.Worst Moment Weakness is kind of Wits-y, I guess? Hit someone, delay the pain for as long as you want. Good for "don't you ever betray me" stuff. Blood-Curdling Ripple Strike and its upgrade are pure Kenshiro/Deadly Lady, and I love that too much to care why they're in Wits. I guess if Wits were to have combat stuff, it'd be that, so eh.
>>34394333>Lunar Charisma charm that lets you be awesome at using Essence Cannonswut>>34394333>anima powers are differentThat, I might actually have to look at. These feel like they were written by someone who didn't care about anima powers, or having really distinct Castes.
>>34392787In 2.0? It can go much higher even if you don't let stacking of same items again (a sane houserule). Effective Essence 10, Honored Companion of the Sun, Power from Darkness stuff (or Eclipse) for things like SWLIHN shield, powerful artifacts like Third Arm Glaive, powerful hearthstones like Gem of Redoubled Force chickanery.Alternatively, you can go Ego Shield and use stackable MDV charms to turn XP into DV.Alternatively, merge with an Amalgam with Unity of the Closed Fist. There are loopholes that allow building amalgams with arbitrary high Dexterity, but 100 or so usually suffices for everything.Mind you, characters using that kind of stuff are likely mote and WP positive while sustaining action-long perfects indefinitely. You don't really get to engage them without charmbreak/charmsnuff or at least charm-cost increasing effects.
oh cool, never seen Exalted in action before. this is kind of like Tenra Bansho Zero.
>>34394422>>34389418Then "Odyssey" Charms. Witching Hour Stride I'd have expected to see in Dexterity, and accelerates your dramatic travel speed by lots, or by FUCKLOTS if you're doing it at night or outside Creation. The upgrade helps your companions, so it might actually be useful for her if they go far West or decide to fight the Prince (shadowlands at sea, boat chases at night). Unseen Border Expedition upgrades it, making you impossible to track. Pretty Lunar.Stolen Urgency Curse is funny, but feels a bit Sidereal. Slow your enemies dramatic travel speed, steal it for yourself.Night-Trapper's Baffling Snare is a trap-booster, the only one I've ever seen. Those rules are in Scroll of Kings, I'll have to look them up again. Feels purely suited to Wits, though. At last. And it comes with a trap-themed Overdrive. We're really going to have to start using Overdrive.Last are "Rumour" Charms. Heart-Shatter Allusion Technique is another social power, a reflexive (nerfed) social attack. She'll want that. She'll also want its older brother, which lets you pretend someone else said what you said. That's neat. Very Lunar, reasonably Wits. Creeping Insinuation Method lets you do a repeated social attack (Lisa needs braces!), which is useful. I'd expect it to have been in Manipulation, though.World's Voice Suspicion makes it super-easy for you to gather information from rumours. Feels like a sort of street-shaman thing. Actually pretty Wits-y, and certainly fits No Moons as Shamans. Another one lets you spread rumours really well, which would be useful for a politicking kitsune, and the final Charm in the whole set is Grapevine Bears Fruit, which is basically Persona in a bottle - make the rumours real. That's weird. It's also cool, and a finnicky effect pulled off pretty elegantly.
Man fuck Antediluvians. Fuckers hit like a truck.
>>34394713>>34389418And we're done. After this it's just:Mutations. There's lots of them, split up between Attributes (appropriate, for Lunars) with what looks like a whole new system for managing them. And my god, I'm going to have to go through ALL OF THESE. Ugh. Looks like a solid customization set, though.Fluff, which I'm less bothered about but should probably read through at some point. Split into "Lunar Exalted", "Lunar History", and "Lunar NPCs". Plus a Storytelling chapter! Never seen a hack with one of those before. Might be a giggle.Anyone got anything they specifically want me to look at, or should I just head to bed?
>>34382087really? I thought it was marena for a second.
>>34394436>wutIt's a Charisma charm that lets you serve as the hearthstone and discount the firing cost of attuned artifacts towards which you have a positive intimacy. So, if you have a positive intimacy towards your Essence Cannon, you can use it without a hearthstone (or, rather, with your own affection as the hearthstone) and make it free to fire.It's a really neat, REALLY flavorful charm.
>>34394773Overall, though? I think I'm going to use this wholesale. There's really nothing that jumps out at me as a gap or missing capability, and anything that she misses can be pretty easily patched up by porting in lone canon Charms. It feels really... like a complete product? Like they went out of their way to cover all the essentials. Perhaps too well, if the way Wits started to peter out into weirdness was any indication.And yeah, on the weirdness front? Honestly, didn't feel much weirder than Lunars with Knacks mixed into the Charms. There's lots of shapeshifting fluff for effects that you could find in the Solar Charmset, and there's some powers that don't really belong in ANY Attribute - weather control, rumours made real, elsewhere dens, etc - that are worked into Attributes regardless, but... There's enough buildup that they don't feel too hugely out of place, and there's barely a handful of them in a fucking big Charmset. This looks like a full Manual's worth of Charms?I think I'd have trouble coming up with a canon Lunar who'd outright lose capabilities - in principle, I mean - if they were converted to Terrible Argent Witchs. I don't think I could say the same going the other way.Thanks for the links. Seriously. I'll take a look at the newer docs tomorrow, but hopefully not much has changed.
>>34394765Oh are you back? I haven't seen you here in a while. How has the campaign gone?
>>34394968Currently overthrowing the US Government and winning. All the fighting woke up an Antediluvian under my capital of New Dawn. Giant fight between myself, my bestie, the Engineer, the Siren and him happened. It was some Man of Steel level shit.
>>34395025>It was some Man of Steel level shit.You didn't save a damn thing?
>>34395229Oh I did. I'm saying the fighting was that levels of insane.I managed to get him out into the desert and shit. Guy just wouldn't drop after about 50 points of damage to the face.
>>34395328Are you Ess 2 yet?
>>34395359Woah, how many Hunters did you murder for that?
>>34395425I didn't murder them, they died supporting me when I cleaned out the Vampires from California. That's how I got to Essence 2. Essence 3 was when I successfully overthrew the US government beat them out of California. Essence 4 was when the Engineer and I figured out how to make Orichalcum. Essence 5 was when I conquered the Western half of the US. Currently at Kansas, troops should be in Washington in under 3 months. Funny enough North Korea tried to invade me. They didn't fair well. Bestie is Essence 4 and is currently training to Essence 5. This whole damn rebellion happened because Ron Paul wasn't elected President because Pentex used their connections to get Sarah Palin President. Apparently they didn't take kindly when the Engineer hacked into the news feeds so I could give a speech about how people were being controlled and basically destroyed the Masquerade on International TV.
>>34394234>Lunars normally only get Shadowlands, unless I'm misremembering.I believe you're misremembering in this case.
>>34395593In official material, Lunars only get Shadowlands (you get one level lower than your sorcery level), despite 3/5 of the Exalts that discovered it being Lunars.
I cannot bring myself to read much of TAW. From what I've heard, they're total edgemasters compared to canon Lunars. Even the name, come on - Terrifying Argent Witches. Can you get more tryhard?
>>34396081...good job judging a book by its cover, I guess? At any rate, don't bother reading it now. With that kind of negativity going in, you'll see nothing more than confirmation bias-highlighted examples of why you were right about it being shit.It's not at all shit, by the way.
>>34396263To be fair, the intro to the non-revild one was pretty fucking Edgy. Still great crunch though.
>>34396263But wouldn't a lot of people going in thinking it sounds interesting also suffer from bias?I mean I just have a bad feeling when Lunars get involved thanks to one player I've played with and attitudes of vocal Lunar players on the old Exalted forums so anything about Lunars comes off as mildly tainted at best for me. But I'm aware of it.I'm hoping 3e can sell me on them again. I liked the idea of Lunars before dealing with other fans of them... which I guess is how it is with everyone else and Solars thanks to sperglords/jokers coming into threads on /tg/.
>>34396319>To be fair, the intro to the non-revild one was pretty fucking EdgyIs the fluff for the revised one any better?
>>34396081>Total Edgemasters compared to canon Lunars>Raksi and Ma-Ha-Suchi are canonWhat's funny is that TAW Raksi has some tragedy to her name and now finds herself straddling the line between atrocity and delving into true Chimerism, something even she fears, while TAW Ma-Ha-Suchi has a legitimate ideology beyond batshit maniacal rage to him.White Wolf products can get pretty edgy, if you haven't noticed. The problem arises when things swan dive into ridiculous, dumbed-down nonsense. But TAW? Unfittingly edgy this shit ain't.
>>34397075Well, the fluff isn't too bad, it's mostly the intro that has all the edgelord shit in it, which is pretty bad admittedly, because you're just bombarded with it straight away.An excerpt"For she is a monster, a horror, a freak, a terror. She is an unnatural being bought into the world from the dreams of the Dragon Beyond the World by the Divine Ignition. She is a weapon, the knife in the dark, the poison on the lips, the unforgettable word in the ear and the explosion of sudden brute force in a quiet place.And she crafted the Lunar Exalted in her own image. Let that be the real truth that is taken from the origins of the Lunar Exalted. Luna made them in her own image, with secrets given to her by Autocthon, with mysteries she seduced out of her father-progenitor Oramus, with wonders she stole from the bosom of the Mother of Creation and with the love she bore for bountiful GaiaShe knew what she wrought. Do not ask what she did to cast her essence into three hundred murder weapons.It is probably better not to knowAnd in the great war for which she made them, they served their role. In the armies of the Exalted, they were murderers and terrorists even among the Primordial-killers. Their false visages were the last things Lintha children saw before the Witches stole their eyes and nailed the children to the ships of their parents the day before battle."
>>34396849I'm predominantly a Solar player and I think TAW is fucking awesome. While I appreciate a lot of things the Ink Monkeys brought to the gameline, especially in regards to bolstering my splat of choice, I also think they should have given a lot more focus to providing the other Celestial Exalts with new and interesting options. In regards to Lunars, I think TAW is exactly what they needed.>>34397075I feel ES and Revlid's tones are very distinguishable, and what they emphasize and how is quite noticeable. Earthscorpion goes all out on the flavor boldly establishes an extremely strong atmosphere, but because the style is so forceful, it's not to everyone's tastes and is vastly more polarizing. Revlid is more moderate in his approach, more subtle and careful about the meaning he's trying to present, almost as though he's trying to reel back on Earthscorpion's initial delivery which was more decided on diverging from the path of canon Lunars. Neither style is worse than the other, I feel, they're just approaching the material they're producing from different angles.
>>34397314Contrast with:"How does one describe Luna? Myth places her as Sol’s clever lieutenant who reigns in his wrath, as the terrifying enemy he must slay each night for the sun to rise, as the white hound who watches the world while he rests, as his distant lover and the mother of their star-children. Stories tell that she is the Maiden’s sixth sister in a gown woven from unexpected outcomes, that she is a trickster who tweaks the nose of destiny, that she alone is unknown to the eyes of fate, that she was chained by starlight when everything was born, and when the constellations dim she will howl the world’s end. Doctrine has Luna as Gaia’s husband, commanding the proper flow of tides and seasons, as a child torn from her womb by a sickle-wielding giant, as her reflection on the clear lake of the firmament, as the pale crone who jealously watches her as she sleeps. All of these things are true, for Luna is a divinity of many aspects, passion the only constant. Many think her mad, for she is not restricted to any one identity or outcome, but embraces paradox, straddling both sides of each border. When she rises in the sky, all is light and darkness, and chaos and order share the same bed. While the Sun scours the unreal Wyld from Creation, the Moon’s gentle touch encourages madness and mischief, for the moment the world stops changing is the moment it has died."
>>34395328Oh my god welcome back. How are things? What have you been up to?