Ok, sliding off page 10 again. Thread #5http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Periodic_Table_of_DragonsRules are at the top, newcomers, skim them please. Major worldbuilding gonna happen in this thread.
Dragging this over in case it gets lost. Talking about the Lophora or 'peyoteople'I was envisioning the party atmosphere to be something spanish-festival-flavored, maybe with a little egyptian-arabic thrown in.As for the time of year, always go with during or just after the rainy season for fruit, so that would tie in nicely with being 'in the spirits' good graces'.'Peyote blend in well with the rocks, making them very hard to see, so they'd be colored and textured so that unless they're standing or moving they look like rocks.They wouldn't wear many clothes either, because then they couldn't photosynthesize well.Water would be like salt for them, essential, but too much is a very very bad thing. (cacti split open or rot when they get too much water)The fruit being the source of their psychoactives is a good idea... oklifecycle: flowering about a month before fruiting > fruiting, separate the seeds, do whatever with the pulp > plant the seeds > can go two ways here, make them short lived with a high germination rate, or longer lived with a lower germination rate > kids are basically shrubby lumps, kept in a special garden in the middle of the settlement, they're sapient but immobile > coming of age is when the leaves start to fall off and they grow branches that turn into legs/arms
>>33187589going to go with long lived, so they have a low germination rate.These are sounding like non-snobby desert elves
>>33187589There wouldn't be males or females as such, peyote flowers have both pistil and anthers.They'd probably have a insect fertility-gods because plants and beesProbably eat insects too, because insects have a lot of nitrogen in them and they're found everywhere, so possibly insect-'harvest' gods tooTrade avidly for brightly-colored items, especially beads and cloth to make into festival-wear-since the climate is dry they wouldn't have to worry about storing things, there wouldn't be any mold to eat away at anythingAny buildings would be very open, more a way to keep the sun and wind off their stuff than real shelterWood items would be extremely valuable because not a lot of trees in the desert>how am I doing?
>>33187639Good, I for one like the sound of that.Anyway, so the Lorphora annually begin flowering around the time that the desert's brief rainy season comes. Since that time of year will vary depending on the desert, so too will the different Lophora tribes flower at different times. When the rains finally arrive, the Lophara quickly start growing their fruits, which have a myriad of uses in their cultures. In addition to bearing seeds to be planted, the pulp of the fruit is used to make a psychoactive drug and the skin is ground up and used for dyes. The coming rains and the growth of the Lophora's fruit is traditionally viewed as a sign that the spirits are still with the Lophora (a Lophora who, for whatever reason, develops no fruit is seen varyingly as someone to be pitied, avoided, or even attacked/exiled depending on the particular tribe). For these few weeks of the year, the Lophora party it up in celebration of the spirit's gifts and blessings. The festivities conclude with the planting of the seeds, with the hope that of the several dozen planted by the tribe, one or two might grow into a new member of the community (can't have them all grow, or else the deserts would get overpopulated.)After the ceremony concludes, the Lophora go back to their quiet and subdued ways, occupying most of their time with meditation and quiet conversations between themselves. During the day, they sit in the sunlight, but for the cold nights, they move into pueblo-style huts with small, cautiously-lit fires that can keep warm. There is no need to hunt for food, as they photosynthesize what they need, so they are mostly sedentary. Whenever matters of importance for the tribe or the individual need to be resolved, it is common for them to use the psychoactives to seek the spirit's wisdom, but they must be used sparingly so that the supply can last the year.How does that sound, guys?
>>33188020They would need to eat, but only small amounts, plants need fertilizer after all, and this would give them something unique to offer travelers.Toasted cricket anyone?
Repostig the Palladium Dragon to prevent it getting lostPalladium dragons, like the Irons and Tins, are one of the more industrious dragons. However, they are focused on Alchemy instead of more physical crafts.Palladum dragons are highly reflective, with their flat octagonal scales as bright as mirrors. They possess a crest of spikes on the back of their head, and, like most of the denser metallic dragons, are incapable of flight. However, unlike most flightless dragons who possess atrophied wings, Palladium dragons' wings have instead transformed into a pair of dextrous hands and arms.While lacking a breath weapon and one of the less durable metallic dragons, Palladium dragons are notable for their ability to create and hasten alchemical processes near them. This makes them highly valued for any work involving alchemy. Their ability to induce alchemical processes in living beings also makes them deadly foes should they manage to get close to their opponent.Palladium dragons are notable for being one of the few metallic dragons capable of alloying with a fluid dragon via consumption, in their case Hydrogen dragons. This is due to the fact that they will actually absorb pieces of Hydrogen dragons on contact, as opposed to having to consume them conventionally. The result grants them large amounts of energy, and Palladium dragons have been known to go without sleep for days after consuming a Hydrogen dragon.Nearly all Palladium dragons possess some degree of alchemical knowledge, and many are devoted alchemists, capable of large amounts of research and innovation due to their long lives.
>>33187918Good so far, the insect bit is an interesting touch that I hadn't thought of. Something I thought about but didn't mention in >>33188020 is that the dyes they make are used for brightly-colored cloth, so that fits in. They're good artisans, especially when it comes to cloth and fabric, because they've got lots of time for it and they can trade those goods for others that are harder to get in deserts- such as wooden items.>>33188092I figured they'd pull it up with their roots... Since you mentioned the idea that they are immobile at first but later pull up their roots as limbs, perhaps that's why they have to start eating. I do imagine that whatever kind of meals they make would be viewed as exotic and strange foods in the eyes of other people, especially ones that don't dwell in the desert. Though, toasted crickets might be a bit odd if they worship insect gods...
>>33188204well, some native american cultures worshiped gods in the shape of their main source of food, maize goddess, buffalo gods, deer gods, etc. I was drawing from bog plants that have to trap insects because there's no nitrogen in the soil.Once they start moving they'd have to draw their raw materials from elsewhere, especially if they get injured. I was thinking they might favor clay deposits for the micronutrients that they can't get from sand, though this would definitely be a special treat.
>>33188189Good idea, we don't want to lose anything.
>>33188189I like this, adding to 1d4 as soon as it goes back up
>>33188298Yeah, I was thinking similar. Clay brownies would certainly fall into the category of "exotic and strange foods" to most outsiders. They'd probably eat sand snakes and other animals as well- you can't be that picky in a desert. I have no idea how edible a cactus or the leaves of desert shrubs are, but perhaps they also chew on those.They must pay their gods pretty deep reverence if they're symbolic representations of their food. Deserts aren't exactly super-abundant in food, after all. That together with the respect they have for the spirits give me the impression that the Lophora must be a deeply spiritual people.
>>33188324It's up again now, it looks like. The main image is gone, though.
>>33188460generally speaking anything other than the very youngest leaves are going to taste horrid and be quite toxic, otherwise they'd be nibbled off in no timeDesert cultures DO tend to be quite religious overall
>>33188586Alright, so we've got a good base for what their culture is like now. What do you suppose your average Lophora looks like?
>>33188674I didn't want to go too exotic, so I was going to stay with the humanoid frame, bald, kind of rough outline with some regular ridges like a lot of rounded cacti have, especially on protruding areas like shoulders, elbows and knees. Blocky and kind of short to reduce surface area and water loss. They're super-efficient photosythesizers (I'm not going to explain C4 photosynthesis paths, but suffice it to say that they can take much brighter light without bleaching).Flowers would appear on the chest and lower neck, around where you'd have a lei, only up to the collarbone. Young ones would have more prominent ridges on the lower parts of the limbs until they finished growing.
>>33188815I am ashamed, I confused CAM photosynthesis with C4. They go dormant at night to absorb CO2, then are up and about during the day. They love it when travelers come by and try to snuggle up to them when they're sleeping because they feel so much more energetic the next day because of the extra CO2 in the air.I'm kind of tempted to create a hybrid system of the two, but that would be getting too technical.
>>33188926I'd say they would probably get more lethargic as the day goes on due to the build-up of oxygen in their system, but even that's probably also delving too deep into the technical workings of their photosynthesis. Plus, most of the time they're lethargic enough as is. Anyway, yeah, my point is that I agree we should avoid getting into the details of photosynthesis systems, since the understanding most people have of it seems to be "they breath CO2 and exhale O2, and also make food from sunlight somehow".
>>33189126ok, well, people can understand 'sleep at night, like being near travelers and try to cuddle.'I like the idea of them trying to convince wanderers to sleep in one of their communal bedrooms, then all gathering around (or on) them
>>33189174That is neat, I agree, and the average layman should be able to understand that much. So their skin, I guess it would generally be smooth and colored a greyish-green, to help pass as rocks in camouflage. On the other hand... We've established that they do wear some light clothing that is often dyed with bright colors, and a humanoid-shaped rock isn't very convincing even if it isn't wearing a bright red poncho. Can we still make the camouflage thing fly, or do we drop that?
>>33189441oh, I thought I said that the clothes were for their festivals, beyond that they'd just stay naked, maybe with cloth or leather pads if they have to kneel or sitGrey-green with patches of tan to blend in better. Lines and creases to break up their outline. They lay flat on the ground, maybe mound some rocks along their sides, some might curl up among bigger boulders instead
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While many types of dragons have been known to sell their scales for alloys, few are as prolific or as valued as the Vanadium dragon.Dark gray and three times the size of a horse, Vanadium dragons are technically scaleless. However, their skin rapidly transforms into irregular plates covering their skin. These plates will rapidly slough off, only for the next layer of skin to transform into new plates.While Vanadiums lack a breath weapon, they are highly resistant to corrosion and are one of the tougher dragons, especially due to the fact that their bodies are not nearly as brittle as other metallic dragons. Even more significantly for their influence, their rapid shedding of plates grants the ability to sell large amounts of their castoffs for other dragons to consume. While only Steel dragons can benefit, this grants a massive increase in durability to them, and Steel dragons will pay handsomely for them. Iron dragons are also buyers, given they can also consume material from Carbon dragons to gain the benefits.Their plates are also frequently bought by wizards for focus materials, given the prevalence of them compared to most other dragon pieces.
Still working on Hg, unless somebody did it while I was gone today?
>>33191948pic or description?
>>33192029pic, actually it's done now.
damn that's amazing
>>33192475Are those horns from the alchemical symbol for Mercury?Because if so, that's really clever.
>>33192751well, since it's the taurus symbol most horns are going to resemble that. yes it was on purpose
>>33192475Among the varied types of radiant dragons, none are as recognizable as the Americium dragon. Both in terms of personality and appearance, an Americium dragon can be mistaken for none other. Their natural color is an iridescent grey similar to many other species of dragon, but no Americium dragon remains that way for long. With the application of dyes and paints, Americium dragons will stain their scales red, white, and blue, in patterns that are unique to the individual (stars are featured commonly). The reason for this is unknown as the Americium dragons will not speak for there reasons, but they will go to such lengths that Runic Americium dragons will have many of their scales carved with simple runes that do little more than hold mana, just so that their coloration will remain longer before having to be replaced.Americium dragons pray on certain specific types of lesser dragons, such as Lithium and Magnesium dragons. Popular scientific speculation says that the nutrients derived from these dragons are used to fuel the Americium dragon's breath weapon, which takes the form of strange, sparkling projectiles that explode in colorful displays on impact.jk, happy 4th of July
>>33193079kekmade me giggle
>>33193575I couldn't not do it when I realized that the holiday is probably the reason this thread is moving slowly compared to the others. Most people are probably out having fun right now, so things should pick back up again by tomorrow. I was actually planning to right a real entry for cadmium, but that and a story I'm working on are taking priority.Also, I hope our drawfriend has that sweet radium dragon drawing still, because I just realized it hasn't been added on 1d4chan yet. It would be a huge shame if it was lost, because that might be my favorite piece of art so far.
>>33193725*write, damn it. I bring shame on myself by making a mistake like that in the same breath I say I'm working on a story.
>>33193725I have it saved on my laptop. I wasn't quite sure if it was done or if it was still WIP
>>33193745hehehdon't worry, I PR before I post
>>33193725I think I might have saved it gimmie a moment
>>33193725Well, I haven't finished it yet, on accounts of this turning out to be longer than I expected, but I might as well share what I have so far. It'll bump the thread to help it get through the night, and it'll let me get some opinions on if it's half-decent. Let me organize it real quick, and I'll start dumping it. When I finish the whole thing, hopefully tomorrow, I'll probably deliver it in Pastebin.
>>33196756The last few days have proceeded in a very strange fashion for me. During the course of events that transpired, I admit to having slacked in the keeping of my journal, for the speed with which everything happened left me without chance to sit down and write. Now that I am in the clear, so to speak, I shall record this tale in full. To set the scene, it was the third day of Mendel, in 1453 of the Common Era. I had been forced by the growing cold of the season to give up on my search for the hermetic Osmium dragon that is rumored to live somewhere in the Tasal Mountains. I had stayed for a length of time approaching a month at a village named Dolsengrad, tucked away in one of the mountain passes that cuts through the narrowest part of the mountain range. Dolsengrad does well for itself, better than most villages at least, because of its location: caravans and travelers heading through the mountains frequently passed through little town, leading it to be a bit less isolated than most places. It was with one such north-bound caravan that I had arrived at Dolsengrad, and it was by another caravan that I planned to leave.The dwellers of the northern city Frostmere had sent out with a stockpile of goods going to Puos, some 500 kilometers to the southwest of Dolsengrad. Extra hands that can hold a weapon are always welcome on such voyages through the Wilds, so I had little trouble joining the group of wagon-pullers. It is common practice for travelers to gather together for safety, and it was in my own best interest to avoid becoming another of the many dead adventurers who thought they could cross through the Wilds alone. The mutual agreement, then, was that I would stand at front-left as one of the guards. This particular detail is important, for it would turn out to be greatly to my fortune.>cont
>>33196875We left Dolsengrad behind that day, after the caravan had bought some of the village’s excess harvest to fortify the reserves. We were about 15 heads strong, by my count, driving two wagons’ worth of goods. It wasn’t my business to inventory their stock, but I guessed that a significant portion of it was probably bottled spittle of the Nitrogen dragons, given the great care the caravan leaders were taking to keep the second wagon from shaking about (they had gone so far as to tie padding to the wheels). Political tensions between Puos and nearby Emmese have been increasing since the later laid claim to the recently-discovered gold mines between them, and as Frostmere is a long-standing ally of Puos, I suspect the shipment was to aid in the war everyone suspects will soon break out.That shipment of bomb-water will never arrive, though. We were making good headway though the mountain pass, with no troubles for the first couple hours. Then, the droning noise of the creaking wagon wheels was interrupted by a deep, howling roar from the direction of the rear-guard. We all turned around just in time to see the man being grabbed and tossed against the wall of the pass! The creature that had grabbed him was a hulking brute, covered in thick white fur and hunched over like a gorilla- a rimeback. “Damn, and damn again!” I remember shouting to myself as I clutched my spear. The beast was as tall as our wagons, and beyond that, it was not alone. Several more rimebacks leapt down from the top of the cliffs, joining into the ambush now that their alpha had struck the first blow. Just my luck that a troop of these frozen apemen would be travelling along the top of the gorge at the same time as we traversed it from below!
>>33196893Rimebacks, for those not familiar with the cold norths, are a voracious and violent species similar to the gorns of more tropical climates. They are well-distributed across both the frozen mountains and tundras, but it is surprising to see them this far down when the year’s chill was only just now arriving in Tasals. Their most iconic feature, and the source which their name is drawn from, is the sharp, spine-covered layer of ice that they maintain on their backs. The existing documented knowledge of their habits suggests that is for personal defense, as rimebacks are so inclined towards acts of savagery that when lacking for anything else to fight, they often turn on each other. They can survive on whatever hardy vegetation they find, being omnivorous, but will eagerly spring at any chance they can get to tear into a meal of meat- such as a traveling caravan passing through the mountains!The alpha was already occupied by some of the others, and I was about to run to the man that had been thrown against the stone wall to see if he was still with us, but before I could I was already being accosted by another rimeback. I was too occupied to count their numbers, but the typical rimeback troop is rather small, so we likely outnumbered them... That’s good, because I don’t believe a single one of us wanted to take one of these animals on alone.>cont
>>33196927I was backed up to the side of the first wagon with another guard with me. I’m thankful that we were armed with spears, because the reach given to the rimeback by it great arms would have been very troublesome if the two of us bore swords. This man was perceptive of the ways of battle, and despite our lack of words, the both of us seemed to be thinking on the same level: one to occupy the monster from the left, the other from the right. It kept us safe, and when the burly creature moved to punch at my fellow, I was able to push the head of my blade into my foe’s exposed side. I wish that our fellows could have been doing as well as us, but as well as I could tell, they weren’t. I caught, from the corner of my eye, the sight of the frantic horses of the second wagon panicking and the wagon driver trying- failing- to keep them from jumping about. Likewise, four of the other men were busy trying to keep the hungry rimebacks off of the horses, but the alpha among them knocked the foolishly brave man that interposed himself aside before almost casually reaching out to snap the horse’s neck with his massive hands. Shouting men, roaring rimebacks, and crying horses, all of it together was nearly as loud as a dragon, but somehow the caravan leader’s voice was able to carry over it all. There is a certain amount of contempt that quickly develops in the pit of your stomach, I’ve found, at listening to someone shout “Protect the goods!” while his men are being killed. I forgive him now, considering what happened in the following moments, but at the time, I’d have punched him across the jaw if I had any blows to spare.>cont
>>33196965It was one of those adrenaline-surged times where you take it all in and everything around you seems slow, that moment when you realize it just before things speed back up. My attention was brought back to my own situation when the rimeback I was engaged with, my spear still gouged beneath its arm, reached down and snapped the wooden handle of my weapon. I looked down upon my now useless stick before my eyes darted back up at the rimeback towering over me, pulling his arm back to strike me even as my ally sunk a second blade into its body. I was sure my life was at an end, but the gods must take either great joy in seeing me alive or great humor in seeing me panic.Have you ever seen what happens when you take an entire wagon’s worth of bomb-water, that raw nitrogen explosive, and then knock it over? I haven’t, but I sure as hell have felt it. It’s not fun. Think of the biggest, muscliest man you can, then make him twice as big and try to imagine what it would feel like for that guy to punch you literally into off your feet, while at the same time the sound of him yelling is so loud that it deafens you. My ears are still ringing now, even! Quite obviously, I survived the explosion, no doubt on account of my distance from the epicenter, but I was knocked unconscious by the sudden force of the blast... Or perhaps it was a stone knocked against my head that did it. In any case, I can’t say with certainty what happened next.>To be continued later
I don't suppose, seeing as we've already got couple anons well-educated in thei particular fields hanging around, that there might be someone with a good head for economics? Someone was saying that there are runes to fabricate most kinds of raw materials, which surely has important economic implications.
>>33202944 are there communal rune carvings that you have to pay to use that produce food mush or are there only a few people who can use the runes? I'd think it would depend on how many people could manage small magics...I can see 'grocery stores' where there are a lot of carvings on the walls in the appropriate materials, you have to pay to access them and then get your raw materials.The same question goes for producing wood and leather and such. I'd think that stone could just be dug up from under the cityA thought: runes don't magically draw matter from nowhere, you provide the raw material, say, a bundle of wood shavings or something inedible that's organic, and the rune changes it to food. This would even work for things like sewage. That would make more massive things harder to make and thus more expensive because the average person doesn't have the oomph to power a rune big enough to turn a pile of manure into a tree trunk.
>>33196985you're evil, leaving off on a cliffhanger like that
>>33203682Well, I was thinking that the particular fabrication runes that a given city has is limited. We've already figured out that wizards don't usually like sharing their secrets, and why, economically speaking, would a city just give a rune that produces raw iron to the city that they sell raw iron to? An alternative to that idea could be to simply say that fabrication runes are so complex that they haven't been figured out for most materials so far. You can fabricate food mush, wood, stone, simple things like that (ignoring that the structure of wood and non-crystal stone are significantly more complex than that of any orderly crystallized structure). Lastly, the amount of mana needed could be the limiter: yes you can create the raw materials you need, but it takes a lot of mana to do it once, and even a trained wizard can only do it a few times a day. The cities limit access to the runes for approved projects and needs, in which case you might have to buy your way in. That's three ideas, each of which gives justification for why people still have to buy things from each other rather than just fabricating it all. Which is best?As for communal runes, I think they'd be standard feature in most cities that any citizen can access- you pay your taxes, after all. Visitors to the city and people with suspicious backgrounds probably have more limited access. I can't really imagine that most people would have enough mana to activate magics as complex as raw fabrication or even transmutation if we go that route, so there's another job for wizards. Such "grocery store wizards" might even be their own whole subdivision since they have to focus most of all on increasing their mana pool and the speed they work with, rather than the fabrication runes which the government council would provide in one way or another.We're not totally eliminating all goods-based economies from the setting, so we need to figure out what stops the fabrication magic supplying all demands.
>>33204029I suppose that I was primarily focused on the source of food mush (I'm a hort major, gimme a break), which is where the grocery store came into it. Basic mush, pure water, salt and sugar would be free, cheese, apples and the like would cost, and fancy meats, spices and exotic veggies would be available only to the very rich. Also, since there'd be a lot of pressure to make the basic necessity runes more efficient and cost effective, they'd be the easiest for people to activate.We decided that power was size limited, right? Why not have that be the case for both ends? Small amounts of things are simple enough for even an ordinary person, see the note about efficiency above. The "dispenser wizards" would need to be hired, which is what would cost because the runes that give apples and such take a lot more mana to activate, more than the average person has, and these wizards would have far vaster mana pools to draw from because they're not focused on learning anything else. Think of these wizards as the 'big and dumb' of the magical community. I can see there being a subset of wizards who have no talent for speed or language being kind of like communal dispensers, they'd activate these runes for people who didn't have the mana pool necessary. But there wouldn't be too many people like that, because again, magic is pretty well known since it's pretty much all that people have to live off of when you get down to it. It would be like being illiterate or in a wheelchair, there are people who are that way and society makes concessions, but most of us aren't.the runes wouldn't be given away either, they'd be almost entirely covered, except for the central part which people would touch to activate it. The ones who carve the runes would be among the most respected members of the city's community for obvious reasons.I suppose the biggest issue here is that we haven't decided what the average person is capable of, thus we don't know what needs a wizard.
>>33204029I talk too much so the post was too long.The basic necessities would exhaust the average person's mana supply (for ease of everything let's not have it draw on stamina and keep it separate), so if a person wanted more, they'd either have to learn how to expand their mana pool or hire a dispenser wizard. I think I even added that most people could do small magics in the Materials section of the Magic rules, using firestarters and the like, since the most basic of the basic rune-letters would be known to just about everyone, like how most people can at least count to five in another language.The reason I wanted the mass dependent factor is because pure elements, such as those found in dragon scales, would be very hard to synthesize, requiring massive amounts of donor material to draw from, with the exception of things like phosphorus and carbon which are found in all plant material. This would keep them valuable. Dragon scales would be vitally important in any technology, since it's much easier to reshape a pile of pure iron than it is to pull a bunch of iron out of a rock. Though some cities would do this, if shipping the dragon parts wasn't viable. (Still need to decide how common dragons like Iron are, in the earth's crust they're insanely common, but that doesn't mean that the dragons are as relatively common)Have we established that magic is shaped by intent or is it only by the shape of the rune? If it's by intent then there's a whole other dimension that I'm a little leery of since it could get complicated fast, though making a 'Focus roll' could be kind of fun (and funny)Back from the tangent, having the fabrication runes be complex is a good idea, and cities would definitely guard their 'production runes' closely, probably to the extent that they're not available in the central library and you have to be a lifetime citizen of the city in order to see them.I need to read people's input more closely instead of focusing on my own ideas...
>>33204432Talking about your own ideas is how you get people to give opinions, so it's fine. What we really need is more people... The last threads were so active and alive, with several people contributing and discussing. Where did all the enthusiasm go?I agree that mana shouldn't be connected to stamina or life force or anything like that. We can have it be... just ambient magical energy that permeates all things, or something. Shit's in the air, man. Also, yeah, only shaped by the rune. The going rule of thumb has been to lean away from extreme complexity.
>>33204029Pardon me taking the bit in my teeth and running, if I allow myself to get distracted I forget what I was going to say, so I tend to work at getting all of my idea down first, then going back and adjustingIdea 1) This is a very viable idea, meshes well with the second one actually. Most cities CAN produce the necessary materials, but they haven't figured out the ideal rune, so their attempts need further refining, being more like ore than workable metal or whathaveyou. So, for things that they need massive quantities of, they buy it from cities that have figured out the ideal rune for it, since working out runes for something as complicated as getting the iron out of pyrite or granite is a task that can take a team of wizards decades to do. So it's cheaper to just buy, unless you have wizards coming out of your ears and deep pockets to fund their research.Since the cities grow 'down' as much as 'up', stone would just be quarried as they build, no need to buy it unless you want marble and you're in a granite area, in which case, see above. The wood would be a more interesting thing, I'm still leaning toward the idea of transmutation versus genesis, because muh conservation of mass. Turning straw into wood wouldn't be too complicated, everything's already there, just need to glue it all together. Turning a pile of coal, phosphorus and various salts into wood is a much more demanding task, though it would allow a lot more control of the final product. Also, luxury woods.Idea 3) Kind of addressed this in earlier posts, the ordinary person can produce small amounts of stuff, with access to the proper rune. We need to figure out how much more mana an average wizard versus an average person.As to where the enthusiasm went, the fact that yesterday was a holiday where people stay up late to watch explosions and barbeque and drink might have something to do with it. (I don't like staying up until midnight, nor do I enjoy loud noises, so here I am)
Mana being in the air is one idea, a person just naturally absorbs it to refill their pool.An idea that's been floating around in my head:If Runic dragon scales are so valuable, since they wouldn't require a person's mana to power, would there be any wizards who tattoo themselves? This would create the opportunity for something of a black market, since I specified that if removed from a living or recently dead body, a rune would power itself, wizard tattoos would be just as valuable.I feel like i'm not being very clear, let me know if this makes any sense or not
>>33204655Okay, I'll take a stab at this too, then.I like idea 1, but we can take it further by saying it's not just the lack of ideal runes that allow for perfect transmutation, but the lack of the proper runes at all. Mentioned earlier was the idea that because these runes would be so complicated, most cities don't have runes for every material they want. The nature of these production runes would be a jealously guarded secret, and the rare flawless production rune ever more so.I agree that keeping conservation of mass as a thing is a good idea. It makes it easier to understand that there are still limits to the systems and some rules that magic still has to work by. If there are runes that fabricate matter from nothing, they would be so complex and mana-hungry (think E=mC^2) that they fall outside practicality. They're probably only theoretical, with no such real runes existing.If we're going to figure out how much mana people have, then we need to be ready to turning everything about magic from just ideas of how it works into a proper system. We'll eventually get to that, but I'm not sure if we should delve into it yet. In my opinion, we should save stats and systems as the last thing we do. What that means, I guess, is that maybe we need to lean away from magic for now and start working on something else. Besides, it will give other people time to recover from their partying, show up, and look over what has been discussed about magic so far before giving their own opinions. Just listing things from the top of my head, stuff that still needs work: months of the year, each of the races of the setting (some more than others), entries for the ~30 dragons that haven't been done yet, oxidation as undeath for metallic dragons, the actual land itself, animals and monsters besides dragons, creation of the world, and anything else that someone thinks of that needs to be addressed.
>>33205052another point, are we going with any kind of past apocalypse where things once know were lost, or are we going with a world like ours where very little has been lost?Because one thing that drives me nuts about rune magic is that it's never explained how or if the runes are discovered (are they floating somewhere and are pulled out by talented wizards, like the Charter marks of Garth Nix's Sabriel series?) or created. And if they're created, how are they created? How does one bind a concept to a symbol without a ton of other symbols meaning that same thing coming into being from other wizards? we've established that there's only one alphabet, so I favor the Charter mark variety.
bumping for new people to join
added Race section to the wiki page, come on people, do you just unconditionally agree with everything I've said? No feedback?
>>33206253There's going to be an arctic race too, but it hasn't been decided what it will be yet, I think. Also some other races like halflings are mentioned in some entries, so that can be added. I like how most of the races are shaping up to be more unique. The Lophora and the ideas for the arctic folk are totally new and the ideas tossed around about sea dwarves with warships and giant oil rigs is a cool break from normal fantasy stereotypes. There was something about some elves living in the mountains... Abandoned dwarven settlements? That wouldn't be all elves though, the majority are probably still forest-living people. We've just got a subset of stone elves that exist for some reason.
>>33206448I'm writing something on the jungle, I may need some ideas for non-aggressive natives.No lizardmen please. There was talks of "gorns" earlier, but that would be savages rather than the peaceful natives I'm looking for.
>>33206482I got the impression, since they were directly compared to the rimebacks, that they're like hyperagressive gorillas.making one of the really colorful parrots or monkeys the jungle race would be fun. Especially those really social parrots that practically build cities on cliff faces
>>33206482It's entirely possible that there are human tribes in the jungle, since humans live pretty much everywhere. If you want something new, different from the races we already have, though... Well, since we don't have anything at all established for the halflings that were mentioned, you could make them the setting's "jungle folk", or maybe you could do something like what >>33206607 suggests and take a jungle animal to make a race from. If you just want something totally from scratch, we can start pitching ideas around.
>>33205052the 'creation runes' could be mythological, since, according to most religions, they were what the universe was built from.>>33204511more about the 'mana in the air', there was a reference to ley lines in the Y dragon entry. This would give a nice link so we don't have to rewrite the entire entry.Mana works like water or air, there are places where it's thin and places where there's a lot of it.
>>33206607Just make them regular or possibly giant kea parrots so they can knock things over like crazy
What if orcs were natural philosophers, and each orc tribe represented a different school of philosophy. This naturally would cause many arguments and even wars between oppossing schools of thought. Just an idea to get some philosophical nerdery in.
>>33209979versus them being green barbarians whose only response to anything is BIGGER HAMMER?I like.
>>33210456Yes, though humans and other races might still carry that opinion of them as some orcs tend to be fiercely devoted to their school.
>>33210569but it opens the door for orc professors which tickles my sense of humor
>>33210569Also, philosophers tend to be extremely eloquent, they have to be, otherwise no one would understand what they're trying to say, which completely does away with the hulk speak
I fixed a pair of small spelling errors over on 1d4, the first two 'Vanadium's were spelled 'Vandium'.
>>33209979>>33210456A philosophical debate between an eloquent Orc and a high-as-a-kite Lophora sounds entertaining, so I'm for that. If we're working on Orcs now, someone before had mentioned that they would be distributed in various climates in locations, almost as much as humans, but tend towards nomadic lifestyles instead of forming villages and cities like humans. I could see that as fitting in with a philosophical orc's views on being above materialism or something.>>33210569That's good, it justifies orcs still being at least somewhat violent. We probably don't want to make all the races too different from their fantasy norms, lest we alienate people, but giving them a philosophical flavoring makes is cool and different, elevating them to something higher than the normal dumb brute status.
>>33210627True. Also Orcs tend to have shorter lifespans (though the opposite could be true in this world) so I believe there would be alot more discussion and indoctrinating of ideas within each tribe. Each member is expected to know about and believe in their "cause" and teach it to those younger and less knowledgeable. In turn the orcs get something to live by and a reason to live (or not depending on the school) their (to quote Hobbes) " brutishandshort" lives. I imagine makeshift forums of discussion for all sorts of philosophical matters to be the cultural hubs of this culture.
>>33210955What's that thing they say about dragon fights in Skyrim? That two dragons fighting each other is a philosophical debate? I see this orc as something similar to that. As they clobber each other in a fight, the whole time they're shouting at each other in debate, refuting points and providing counterarguments.
Like the Silver dragons, Neodymium dragons reign supreme over a specific ability of many dragons. For Neodymium dragons, this is the force of magnetism.While defensively weak, possessing soft flesh and flaky scales, burning readily except for aforementioned scales, and highly vulnerable to corrosion, Neodymium dragons are masters of offense. They possess a powerful breath weapon in the form of an invisible beam of pure heat that travels instantaneously to the target, leading them to occasionally be misidentified as radiant dragons.However, their more powerful ability is magnetism. Sufficient to allow them to fling a metallic dragon or crush a battalion of armored men from a distance, Neodymium dragons are feared by all intelligent races save some of the less vulnerable fluid dragons.Fortunately, Neodymium dragons will rarely attack unprovoked, although they are ruthless should they fight.Alloying by consuming pieces of both Boron and Iron dragons only further increases their magnetic abilities, while also making them more durable.
>>33211465with their soft scales, they could be a race with many runics, giving them greater control (rather than strength) over their magnetism, allowing them to pick a single button off a man's shirt, should they so wish
>>33211508Possibly.Only thing is, I got their scales from the fact Neodymium oxidizes and flakes off. So they'd shed relatively frequently.Although, they might be able to use the improved control from runes to etch their scales via magnetism.Or sell a runed scale to a wizard in return for the wizard reapplying the rune.
>>33211616yeah, any wizard who works with magnetic anything (compasses, crude generators, whatever else I can't think of) would kill to get their hands on those. I don't think it would be hard for them to come up with some kind of agreement.
>>33210955I support the shorter lifespan, having long lifespans with a philosophic outlook is veering too close to snooty-elf territory. Having a short life span keeps them down to earth.
>>33211720So our Orcs are going to be mostly typical, except for the philosophy bit? Seems cool. Them still being kind of violent and tough makes sense if they're nomads that wander through the wilds, since it sounds like it's a pretty dangerous place.
>>33212739I'll post some tribe/clan write ups tomorrow or whenever the next thread is. Anyone else who'd like to write some, feel free to. I'll keep an eye on here.
Added the Neodymium dragon to the wiki page, and put in a bit about them having large amounts of Runics.Also made note of their color, since they have scales of Vanadium oxide and I gave their eyes the same color as Vanadium glass.
>>33213973PRed, clarified and cleaned it up.
>>33213898why the pessimism? This thread should still be here in the morning
Filled in the race section a little bit with information and ideas that have been tossed around. If the HortAnon wants to fill in any important details I missed about the Lophorans, I'd be pleased for him to do so.
I hate that I missed so much.>>33204432On the subject of magic being intent based, I'd say no because the magic is basically a language, so the intent would be pre-written. Though focus rolls could be added to a spell when someone temporarily modifies it.I thought that the temporary modifying could come from wands, which would not make magic in the traditional sense of bam I cast a spell from it, but more in the sense that it allows one to draw runes in air with light or temporarily modify a spell that is in a focus, both added to the wand by special designation runes.>>33204511I do agree with the mana being something that's in the air and just permeates from all of creation.>>33204655I think the first idea is mostly good, but I'd like to add that maybe these runes wear out over time because they are used so often. I also prefer transmutation for things instead of just poof.>>33205194For what the runes are, I'd like to think its an ancient language that was made by the first race, and it was once almost entirely lost. That means more ruins can be discovered by exploring ruins, but by no means was their language complete. This is because its not just a normal language were words are just coined and put into use like English. The language is actually somewhat of a science that was derived from the world by the first race in existence. So basically the runic language is very similar to the language of math in which you have math mathematicians that derive new formulas and maths from the world around them. For example often new theories in physics have to have entirely new systems of algebra developed for them, in some cases those algebras can divide 0 by 0. So the language is both discovered and developed, and the fact that it is innate to the world itself explains why everyone can use it, why its universal around the world, and why its extremely difficult to make matter over transmuting it.
>>33216304>I think the first idea is mostly good, but I'd like to add that maybe these runes wear out over time because they are used so often.How do they wear out? from being touched? that would take thousands of years. Unless mana itself has a mildly corrosive property, I thought that each rune would last until it was marred. But having a rune get lighter (on paper) or start to lose the crisp edges (when engraved) would work fine.Also, personal pet peeve is the constant 'progenitor race' that always hangs out in fantasy. Why, just once couldn't we be going about BEFORE the big apocalypse? No lost languages, no mysterious ruins, just a bunch of races in a hostile world. That's why I offered the Charter mark approach. It's all there, but it takes insane amounts of dedicated meditation and study to bring forth a new 'letter'. As in, only the best of the best who dedicate their entire lives jto it ever have even a hope of uncovering a new one.
>>33216564I don't really like the charter approach, but that doesn't have to be from a lost race then. It can just be straight derivation like math, which would still take great lengths of meditation and study. The reason I don't like the charter approach is because it still doesn't explain how the runes exist unless their gifts from the gods, which as a cliche bothers me just as much as progenitor races bother you. And the fact that it's intrinsic to the universe in a way similar to math fills in a lot of plot concerning transmutation, its widespread influence and the availability of it to everyone.For the decay I just meant that the common dispenser runes are used so often by the untrained masses that the slight overloads to the rune they likely do damage them over time. Usually this is not a problem for most runes especially for trained wizards, but when they are used this carelessly it has negative affects on them just like a tool would be.
>>33216304So then, the runic language operates in a "true name" sort of style? I can dig that. It's a good justification. "This rune isn't a "word" for burning, it doesn't just describe fire- it IS fire, it's the essence of the concept made tangible, and with it, I'm going to melt your face off."I'm kind of iffy about the suggestion of wands, though. First of all, I'm not sure how writing a rune in the air will interact with the idea that the material your rune is engraved in affects the spell in some manner, but it would probably weaken it in some way. Besides that, there's also the issue that runes are really quite complex, and (by my understanding of it) even the simple runes would take several minutes to draw. That's why wizards carry around spellbooks to use as a focus, after all: it's far more practical to bring your own runes than to have to draw them each time you want to cast a spell. On the other hand though, I DO like the idea of wands as a tool to quickly and temporarily modify an existing rune, which seems to be the other idea you're getting at. I can see it now, our humble wizard from above needs to cast his fire spell now, but the rune he has creates the effect of a wide burst of fire in front of him, and he doesn't want to burn everything- just the one person whose picking a fight with him. With his trusty wand, he adds a quick couple of lines, some dots here and there, and a pretty little swirl to the side- now instead of a big fireball that would catch the whole room on fire, his spell will shoot a ray of fire aimed at a specific point! Thus, he makes good on his word to melt the man's face off. In a few moments, the "edit" he made to the rune will fade from existence, and the wizard's rune will again produce its normal, fireball-style spell.
>>33216819I guess I always assumed that charter marks were the language of that universe, the way that math is the language of ours, except you can talk BACK to the universe. There is a mathematical pattern to it, and certain people have noticed it, but those people are few and far between.
>>33216859hmm... the temporary edit would make things a lot easier, you won't have to carry 50 tomes to describe every spell you might need, you just carry one with a large number of basic runes that cover most situations.There's going to have to be some kind of Fluency mechanic for magic once we start to pin those down. Especially if we do the temporary editing, a misplaced squiggle and suddenly your hair is on fire.
>>33216859I like thinking of it in a true name sort of style, it is literally the way the universe defines fire.Yeah, I guess the first wand idea isn't really tangible with the way magic works unless they are very weak versions of simple spells used to buy time. And for the second that's exactly what I was getting at, so instead of carrying a book with each spell derivation they can add modifiers as necessary, and focus-rolls can go for how well they do with the modifiers. Since the spell is always going to cast you can get really funny outcomes with how they screwed up the modifiers. For example in the fireball spell, he makes a mistake and instead of focusing the fireball at one target it immediately sets fire to everything in a 10 foot radius including himself without a projectile.
>>33217084It's quite similar, and the charter marks aren't a bad idea. I just think it being derivative instead of meditation is better because then they can get very specific in their research instead of meditate and pray I get the right rune.
>>33216564>>33216819I'm not quite sure I understand what the difference between these two ideas is, expect for that one has a progenitor race. In both cases, the runes are kind of a true name system, like I mentioned above, it's just that in once case someone figured them all out in the past but we have to rediscover them and in the other we're figuring them out ourselves. We can skip on having a progenitor race and not have to have the runes come from the gods. The current races get them through research and long development processes. It's like deriving complex mathematical formulas in the real world. The principle ways that the world works are there, whether we understand them or not, but we've got researchers that put a lot of time and effort into rearranging these symbols in a way that represents those principles. It's basically the laws of physics, except for magic. Hey, look at that, magic that actually has hard rules and limitations... It's like we're not even trying to break the setting with reality-warping wizards!Besides, I personally like it when wizards are colored as the scientists of a fantasy setting.
>>33217134part of me just wants to make getting a new rune as hard as possible, I'm not entirely sure why. Probably because with math it's easy for one blazing genius to come up with 50 new runes/derivatives in a decade.
>>33217187I got the feeling one was based on derivation and the other was just mediating hard and praying the right rune comes to you, but that may have just been me misunderstanding.>>33217243It doesn't have to be as easy as real world math, plus remember the wizards rarely share, so as an analogy for most wizards don't just have to learn algebra, they have to reinvent it for themselves, and the same for geometry, calculus and so on. So maybe inventing more complex runes is similar in difficulty to real world math, but most of those people are taught the basics and don't have to rederive them.
>>33217084Yep, that's the natural extension of the idea. I like this because a tool that lets you make these kinds of quick edits would be a necessity for any wizard who wants to get things done without having to, as you say, carry around fifty variations on the same rune. Plus, it provides a balancing factor for magic, if we do it right.>>33217092I like the idea that the spell always goes off when you try to cast it, and it's just a matter of trying to make sure it goes off the way you want. I'm going to add my opinion here though and say that we don't need to (and probably shouldn't) systematize it too heavily. We don't need a chart for every spell that says "If Wizard fails Focus Check by X, the spell produces its effect with the following variations..." We'd be better off making some suggested guidelines for handling it and supplying a target number for the focus check, then letting DMs figure out what the result of the spell should be based on how well/badly the wizard passed/failed his roll and the current situation that the spell is being cast in.Basically, I'm saying let's encourage good DMing instead of making a huge amount of work to produce a cumbersome and restrictive system
>>33217400Yeah I don't want a Rolemaster situation for the magic, I agree with its the DM's discretion for what a focus failure actually does.
ok, changed the dwarves to closer what we discussed in thread 4, did a bit of tweaking on the Lophorans
>>33217400unless you fail by a spectacular degree and overload the rune with mana...
One thing I've been thinking of for runes so that wizards don't have to page through their book in the middle of combat is a sort of indexing rune set.Basically, it opens the book to the page you want it to be on, although it can also be applied to other forms of storage like a bag or vault to cause the desired item to fly into your hand.Since it can't really backfire it doesn't need as many safety modifiers, and it'd be simple enough anyone could cast it for a negligible cost and pretty much instantly.This basically just means the wizard can put it on the first page and use it to instantaneously flip to the right rune during combat.Also, I've been thinking of possible creatures besides dragons.Given the scientific bent of this setting, would ferrofluid and liquid crystal oozes be possible, either as pets or parasites of dragons?Another possibility would be a sort of quadrapedal hairless carnivore, with a shear-thickening substance under it's skin so it gets tougher when struck with blunt force.And mica raptors, dangerous microraptors with their feathers made of razor-sharp sheets of mica would be a possibility for the forests.
>>33217577I like all of those ideas, and the oozes should be parasites in my opinion the dragons don't need more things making them dangerous. The carnivore basically has a non-newtonian fluid in its muscles. I think the raptors would be more tropical though.
>>33217577The indexing rune is a fantastic idea. I was trying to think of something that would mitigate the page flipping and was coming up blank.micaraptors... oh you make me laugh.Ferrofluid slimes would be interesting, I don't know much about liquid crystal so I can't comment.I can see them being both parasites and pets, depending on the kind of dragon.
>>33217534The only thing I object to is the "many" in the description of dwarven settlements that have been lost because of Radon dragons. I disagree with it because 1) it's hard to believe that so many dwarven settlements would suddenly start having this probably when it wasn't really a problem in the past (which is the implication I get from the wording) and because 2) the sea-dwarves should probably be a minority for dwarf-kind, much like the stone elves are for elf-kind. It's a unique and believable spin on typical dwarves that I like, but most keeping most of the dwarven race familiar is a good idea, I think. Plus, I can't see dwarves as good produces of metal products if most of their forges are on boats and oil rigs.Other than suggesting turning that "many" into "some" though, I like what you've done with the races. Good job.>>33217577120% behind this, because I've been thinking that we need to have creatures besides dragons. The wilderness is suppose to be really dangerous and threatening, and dragons can't be the only scare things out there. Rimebacks and gorns have already been mentioned in the story earlier in the thread, so we have those too. Mica-raptors sound cool. I'm sure we could fill up a whole bestiary with dragons if we get around to statting them, and then a second one with all the other kinds of dangerous monsters this world has.
oh, a neodymium with a cage of ferroslimes... the horror...
Glassgrass, grass with razor sharp silica pieces embedded in the edges and will cut you even if you only touch it. Burning it is worse, because then the pieces get in your lungs. Alternate name and inspiration: Ripgut grassSinkholes, always a danger in some areas. Some beasts have taken to living in the smaller ones and, like trapdoor spiders, repair the hole until you step in.Caltrop bush, seeds have long spines that are arranged similarly to the spines on a caltrop, they easily penetrate leather and are nearly impossible to remove from flesh without causing a great deal more damage, cutting it out is usually necessary. The seeds grow in clusters of 4-5 and as they reach maturity the cluster explodes violently, flinging the seeds up to 100 ft away. The flowers of this bush are used in several expensive perfumes. A bush can have both mature seeds and flowers on it at the same time.Fevergrass, for a few individuals this plant poses no danger, but for 80% of the population the pollen causes a severe allergic reaction; fevers, trouble breathing and hives are all common. Fortunately this plant prefers wet areas and bogs and only spreads elsewhere during extremely wet years.Take-a-piece cactus, this cactus' spines can penetrate anything softer than iron plate with ease, pieces break off easily, and a spine only needs to penetrate by less than a millimeter to get a grip. Treatment is the same as Caltrop bush should it penetrate deeply. Washing the wound with Tincture of Silver is advised, as the spines carry on them an infection which will cause gangrene of the surrounding tissue if left alone. Also called Hugging Cholla.>The scary thing is that most of these are just slight exaggerations.
>>33219403Snare Vines, these vines have serrated thorns which lock onto anything that walks into them as well as each other, often trapping animals and adventurers in a web of barbs. They are resistant to fire and the fiber present in the bark will rapidly dull most knives and swords. To escape requires the patience to unhook each vine individually. However, stands of these vines are frequently home to micaraptors whose scaly exterior allows them to easily slip through the vines.Dreamstem: the berries of this shrub are very nutritious and tasty and are a highly valued trail food in the Wilds, but all parts of the plant except the berries are highly toxic, causing terrifying hallucinations and diarrhea to the point of fatal dehydration. Unfortunately the berries are quite small and the stems easily come with them. It takes only 5 stems to poison a grown man. Inspiration: elderberryPaintree: This somewhat common tree bears upon all its surfaces miniscule hairs which, when touched or breathed in, causes pain beyond the imagination of any who have not experienced it. Small exposures will cause agony for several weeks or months and can be retriggered by heat or cold for years after. Large exposures cause death. The hairs are easily broken off by wind and can be found several hundred feet downwind of the source. Treatment for skin contact involves waxing the area to pull out the hairs. Also called Gimpi and Stinging Bush.>yfw I lifted this directly from a book of mine on poisonous plants, no real changesPoison Green: a form of poisonous algae that flourishes in still water. Swimming in water which hosts it causes tremors, hallucinations and hypersalivation. Drinking water with it causes death within half an hour. Generally, concentrations high enough to affect humans turn the water emerald green, but smaller or slight individuals have less tolerance, succumbing to symptoms when exposed to water with only half the concentration necessary to affect a regular human.