So I'm planning a setting with a different industrial revolution, one where it didn't occur in England. But have no idea on what other candidates may be a substitute. I recall hearing that China almost industrialized at one point, and hear that Belgium has all the materials needed for industrialization from c.1400 onward.Thing is, I want a more... exotic location and timeframe for this, something like the Balkans, the Songhai empire or Indonesia. However, I don't know if its plausible to have that.Any ideas /tg/? What is needed for Industrialization anyway?
>>31844870You should watch James Burke's "connections". You'd be surprised how much of the world is the way it is because some idiot accidentally a fertilizer, which somehow contributed directly to canned meat, allowing Napoleon to do some shit, which means these guys needed more crops, and so a successful fertilizer etc.
>>31844870The Chinese did almost industrialize during the Song Dynasty, around 1000 AD. That would make for a good setting imo.
>>31844870The main reason China didn't industrialize is they fell into an efficiency trap. Industrializing would initially not have been very cost-efficient.Britain industrialized early because they had a culture among the aristocracy of taking risks and investing, they were willing to give factories a try for the novelty/prestige of it.France could have industrialized earlier than Britain if their aristocracy had been interested in investing the money instead of just sitting and collecting rent. Indeed if France had industrialized first they would likely have been an even more massive industrial powerhouse and could well have wound up conquering most of Europe.You could probably also justify any minor German nation starting the industrial revolution, or even a mid-sized nation like Prussia. What if Prussia was the first nation to industrialize and accrued so much prestige by doing so that instead of a German Empire, they were able to get the rest of the north German nations to simply be absorbed into Prussia and that state endured far longer than it did in real life?20th century Prussia best day of my life.
>>31844870How about Russia? The Ukraine has the food production, the Urals the coals and Muscovy the population. What if all of these were linked up centuries before? >>31845379Monarchist pls go. Der Kaiserreich was not that good.
>>31845426Not a monarchist. But Prussia was wonderful and it'd be cool to see an alternate history where the Germans uniting happened differently. What would happen with Bavaria and the other southern Germans? Join up with Austria? Would Austria still try to hold onto the slavs? Would the south Germans stay independent? Unite and form their own nation?>How about Russia?Serfdom would prevent it. It'd take a lot of social and legal reform just to let their population start moving into the cities in sufficient numbers to man factories, and the elite were firmly opposed to this. Even if the elite wanted it to happen it'd still take Russia a long time to industrialize, just not as long as in real life.
>>31845426Man, if the Russian Empire failed to seriously industrialize in the fucking 19th century I really doubt they could have done it earlier.Not to mention, you need an industrial revolution before you could link those regions up.
>>31844870Try GURPS Infinite Worlds and the two Alternate Earths supplements. They go into this a lot.Three quick ideas: A civilization where they give Rome a reason to use the steam engine rather than slaves. Movable type is reinvented in Baghdad, leading to the industrial revolution happening in the middle east at the Islamic Empire's height, rather than in Europe hundreds of years later. China continues its Age of Exploration and it turns into an industrial revolution to support all the ship-building and trade. Easy for them because they already had gunpowder and the printing press; what was missing was the political structure and incentives.
The ancient Greeks had the potential for a steam powered industrial revolution, but wasted it on making their temples and stage productions more showy, because hey, they had slaves to do the work anyways.
>>31845636>The ancient Greeks had the potential for a steam powered industrial revolutionno.
>>31845653Aeolipile, look it up!
>>31845636Antique Industrial revolution would be extremely inefficient. I don't like it.
>>31845379You could also try northern Italy, especially if the region is unified under a progressive regime. Textile industries such as silk were already pretty high tech for the time, at least enough for the Brits to copy them:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_throwinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lombe's_Mill#HistoryAnd of course the population was rather wealthy and literate, and the region was always a source of technological innovations and remains an industrial center to this day.
>>31845687There's more to it than just realizing steam pressure can move things.
>>31845687The aeliopile concept alone is not enough for an Industrial revolution.It also requires concurrent advances in metallurgy, economics and a vastly divergent socio-economic conditions to what were present in ancient greece.
>>31845467>Der Kaiserreich was not that good.
>>31845508>Man, if the Russian Empire failed to seriously industrialize in the fucking 19th centuryIndustrialisation didn't really take off in Europe as a whole until the second half of the 19th century.
>>31845111Aww yeah, mah Connectionsbro.http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/james-burke-connections/No GM can succeed without it.
>>31846893How does it feel to know that Germany would have never dominated Europe?
>>31846933>>31845508I should note that Russia had the problem of a very stubborn and close minded aristocracy that basically impeded progress like the Jannisaries did to the Ottomans. If they were crushed by another Peter the Great in the beginning of the 19th century, then Russia could have begun industrialization at least a good 20-30 years earlier. Speaking of Jannisaries, Ottoman industrial revolution? Can it be done?
>>31847897Niggas don't know bout the Merkelreich.
>>31849044>MerkelreichHey, she paid for it.
>>31849044>Extremehard (Extremadura kek) part of Portugalicia
>>31849044>Turkey>Still an EU candidate. Top lel
>>31849044>Sleepy HollowDon't get it.
In Britain, the industrial revolution began with cotton mills because they were an industry that offered good rewards to a manufacturer who could quickly expand output through easy and inexpensive technological innovations. When steam engines were invented, they became cheap very quickly, but for many industries (glassblowing, minining, construction) etc, industrialization could only be done piecemeal because its actually very difficult to get basic steam engines to do those sort of things. Cotton mills were different because one steam engine and few mechanical sowing wheels could vastly increase production without much. So industrialization needs to start with a product that has a surpulus of demand and can have output expandly cheaply and easily through industrialization.Other things that help are are a labor surplus - caused in Britian by the enclosure acts - high levels of political stability, and a government interested in trade and economic development.
>>31849044Jesus I see the Carolingian Empire, the Kalmar Union, the Kingdom of Sicily, Al-Andalus and the Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth. Is this looking into the future or the past?
>>31850896Couldn't we do this in the Ottoman Empire using Egyptian Cotton, Mesopotamian canals and Bulgarian coal?
>>31850952The main thing missing is political stability and an interest in economic. After Suleiman I died in 1566, the sultanate passed through successions of insane, stupid, and worthless rulers who were more interested in banging their harems then ruling their government. Other groups, such the jannassaries and court eunuchs, tried to act as counterweight, but they were handed a shitty job. Also, before the Young Turks took power in 1913ish, the ottoman empire was essentially barren in a modern capitalist sense - no investment, lots of bribery. Not good conditions for people willing to risk their wealth on the new fangled steam engine.Still, its certainly possible given a few adjustments in history.
>>31845576>A civilization where they give Rome a reason to use the steam engine rather than slaves."what if Rome didn't collapse" is one of the most common alt-history settings out there. It's right up there with "what if the Germans won WW1 and/or WW2" and "what if the Cold War went hot"
>>31851105What about an earlier Tanzimat? We get a sultan like Selim III (but with more balls) that crushes the Janissaries and tries to push for reform instead of stagnation.
bump for discussion.
>>31849044>crimea>not part of future russia0/10 needs updating
>2014>Crafting an alternate history of industrialization>Not making it start in Africa just to piss off /pol/Seriously though, what you might want to do is alter domesticated plants and animals a bit. Europe and China got ahead largely because rice and grain rule. Corn had a similar effect on civilizations in NA and SA. So make up some fictitious high yield crop which does well in subsaharan Africa and take it from there. Have them colonizing Europe instead of the other way round.
>>31844870http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_of_Alexandriathis faggot built a steam engine in ancient rome
>>31854297Has that alternate history has been done? Rome implements widespread use of steam engines and kicks of the industrial revolution way earlier?Since I'm sure it has, a better question would be if there's been one where Rome has an industrial revolution, but still falls, and then the middle ages vaguely steampunk.
>>31854436>>31854481Yeah, the main issue was "don't need no steam engine, got plenty of slaves."To go industrial, you have to somehow hit a point where inventing, developing, and building big expensive machines is more financially attractive than just paying starving plebs to do the thing by hand.
>>31851105>>31852201Yeah, this looks promising. If they'd had more bad luck on the geopolitical front (putting pressure on them to try new things) and more good luck on the leadership front (sultans and ministers with vision and competence,) they could have pulled it off.
>>31845852Hence why he said "because they had slaves to do it anyways". That's the essential socio-econ-political obstacle. The rest was a series of engineering problems, none of which were too daunting for the greeks (even seemingly incredible stuff like crucible steel). The greeks advanced very, very quickly in their brief heyday, and we're continually discovering other seemingly impossible technologies that it turns out they had.
>>31854722I like this idea of Ottoman industrialization. Sounds like a cool setting especially if it means the secrets of industry spread into Africa and Persia before they do into Europe.
>>31847897Preventing the unification of germany was a critical element of european diplomacy from Richelieu on. Precisely because they knew how dangerous Germany could be. Post-Bismarck Germany went through two nasty world wars and a half-century of being divided and half being a client state of Russia... all that and they still did and do dominate European politics.The de facto policy of the EU is that the Germans set economic policy and the French write geopolitical policy. And at that it's only because the Germans have an inferiority complex after rocketing to the top of the "worst evils in history" list. If germany ever had an attack of the grumpies again and had even mediocre leadership, they'd be the preeminent power in Europe in very short order. Now CONQUERING europe is a very different story, but by all power calculations most of europe should either be in the german or russian spheres of influence-- or be dependent on Britain to keep their autonomy.
>>31854773Industry would probably spread a bit faster, being based in the center of world trade rather than off in one cold corner.The idea of beautifully-designed airships docking at minarets does bring a smile to my face. So, Avicenna invents the scientific method, and we've got oil derricks in the desert by 1750?
>>31855100Not to mention that the relatively flat, wide open terrain with few rivers would encourage an early industrial Middle East to build fuckhuge tanks, without running into the sort of problems that large tanks in Europe faced with being unable to cross bridges or move through forests.>that feel when no giant steampunk landships doing battle in the dunes of arabia like naval fleets
>>31855100God this fuels my boner so much. Steampunk Ottomans. It could only be made better if industrialization happened in the Songhai or Mali Empire
>>31855261Hate to burst your bubble but they'd have the same problems tanks, especially heavy tanks, have always had in sandy soil.
>>31844870You want to make it really fucking interesting, make it so that Rome never falls, and industrializes around 500 AD.
>>31855100>>31855261>>31855282Steampunk Ottomans.I've thought about that sort of setting before.Now I find it's a reasonable AH scenario.Today is a good day.Let me find a picture
>>31855319Build them like pic related, with four rows of tracks side by side in the middle, and the weight will be spread out enough that it won't cause soil liquefaction.
>>31855345Jesus this require major shifts in Rome's socio-political outlook, metallurgy and economy. >>31855282Nah, lets top that. Al Andalus.
>>31844870>I recall hearing that China almost industrialized at one pointBwahaha!People have NO idea how fucking backward China is, and don't believe you, until they visit and see for themselves.
>>31855261Ottoman landships are no match for India's elephant mechs.
>>31855282The Ottomans banned the printing press to keep their subjects ignorant.
>>31855319>>31855383Yeah, a nice wide-tread tank can handle softer soil than a horse or a man on foot. Nice wide distribution, low psi, run that fucker right through a swamp.Sandy terrain is a bitch regardless of what you're riding, but tanks have less trouble than most things. Ask Rommel how useless tanks are in the desert, eh?Ottoman landships hoooo!
>>31844870You know South Africa and Zimbabwe have the resources necessary to start the industrial revolution. Getting them to do it, requires changing quite a few things. Still, an industrial East African Empire is something that I'd love to see.
>>31855478Which, funnily enough runs counter to Islam's tradition. Islam was ahead of the curve for a while, encouraging literacy and scientific inquiry.
>>31855466Before they got but-raped by centuries of bureaucratic stagnation and then the British Empire in the Opium Wars, they were doing pretty well.I mean, in the early 1400s, they were building ships the size of WWI dreadnoughts.
>>31855466>What is Song Dynasty? >>31855478Actually they did it because the Calligraphy guild lobbied the government so they can keep their monopoly on paper and book manufacturing.
>>31855365Found it, looks like >>31855467
>>31855345>Rome never fallsThe primary concern would be stopping the string of emperors unable to establish supreme rule and long, stable reigns. The chief reason this occurred was because emperors could easily come to power by simply gaining the loyalty of a few legions. Fight a few successful battles on the frontier, take your army to the capital, and rule get knocked out by the next chump doing the same. I have no idea how to do that though, you'd either need a system of checks and balances which the Tetrarchy was alright at but fell apart pretty quickly or some civil counterweight to the military loyalty
>>31855478It was banned because Europeans made it and were using it to print Christian shit. If the Ottomans had it first, the Europeans would have banned it.
>>31855563And the other. It's more an ornament than anything, but still
>>31855383Nah man, what you need for giant sand landships is a screw drive like pic related. This shit can even cross snow and swamp.
>>31855622Anyone got the video of the russian screw tank?
>>31855617I found my next character art.
>>31855617>>31855563Oh, Keith Thompson, what would we do without you?
>>31854571Whilst the Roman Empire might not care about doing so, the Byzantine empire just might, do to them nearly always being in a crunch.
>>31855711Have you seen his monster stuff?Creepy as anything. And his 4 horsemen piece is fantasticReally want to make this ottoman steampunk setting now
>>31855873>And his 4 horsemen piece is fantasticI know, right?
>>31855568I figure if they had the good sense to look at the 5 great emperors and thought long and hard about what they had in common, and made that form of succession law, they really could have gotten somewhere.
>>31855873>Really want to make this ottoman steampunk setting nowWhat if we start right from the beginning. Say, that during Timur's invasion of Persia, flocks of scholars flee into the Balkans, where a cultural renaissance begins. Fueled by the influx of scholars and philosophers, an Ottoman denzin from say, Rumelia or something designs the printing press, of which the government eagerly adopts and the Sultan crushes the guild's complaining. From this we have an Ottoman empire with a much higher rate of education, learning and information.
>>31855873Keith Thompson thread? Keith Thompson thread.
>>31855900Have you seen the text that goes with it? Slightly modified Revelation 6:1-8, really adds to it
>>31855984I'd go Keith, but I've moved to my phone>>31855977Ottoman steampunk instead
>>31856057I want this painted in Green and Red.
>>31856074Why green and red? You want a Christmas-themed walking war crime?
>>31856088>Not wanting a Christmas destroyer to punish the naughty.
>>31856179Why would pirates have a long range mobile artillery tank?
Rough timeline so far:1383 – Timur begins invasion of Persia1384-1387 – Scholars and Scientists flee Persia to the Balkans1392 – Cultural Renaissance begins in the Balkans, fueled by the influx of scholars, scientists, and philosophers.1394 – Ottoman Inventor from Rumelia invents the Printing Press1395 – The Sultan uses the Printing Press to quash the Calligraphy Guild, printing shops begin to crop up throughout the Empire.1396-1403 – Printing shops are mass producing books and newspapers throughout the Ottoman Empire, education of the peasantry leads to a large increase in scientists and inventors.What comes next /tg/?
>>31856505Pirates with a permanent land base in an area where there are travelling warlords, like the pirates in Somalia today, or the Barbary Coast pirates of the 19th century.
>>31856071>Tfw you will never see the Suleiman the Magnificent moored to minarets above Constantinople on the way to a shisha house to meet your informant who has stolen the top secret ottoman èniyma machine code book
>>31856598>implying you will escape the Janissaries to deliver your ill-gotten intelligence to the forces of BritanniaInto the Turkish prison you go.
>>31856535Expansion of the Empire into Mamluk Egypt, Tripoli, Mesopotamia and Algiers, spreading the printing presses all around. Then a couple more decades pass until the Europeans cement their access to the far east. >>31856678Jesus Christ Anon-bey, that's horrible.
>>31856678> implying I didn't come prepared with a bribe of (banned, due to political reasons) purified coffee, allowing me to make a break for the orient express
>>31855511The Vatican was for a period too.I imagine that sort of thing happens a lot. Major Religious groups encourage learning, get politicized and start outlawing it to protect their power.
>>31856535hmmm, honestly you'd need a couple decades of economic expansion in the middle class to make papers a day to day thing and increasingly common. Expect to see more universities form and more treatises from the Islamic golden age manufactured and preserved, which will help immensely in research. I imagine beginning in Selim's reign you'd see huge amounts of investment in research, probably for firearms, but also in things like irrigation and more efficient farming techniques, which should lead to a population growth. Meanwhile Morocco should be getting the printing press soon, where they'll be able to better use the knowledge obtained from the Nasirid Emirate to better use and reform the government. So, right after, a more populous Ottomans and a stronger Barbary corsairs which will fuck up Europe fierce. ( I mean, they raided Iceland for God's sake.)
>>31857405That reminds me, as the Ottomans expanded south into the Sudan, they came into contact with Ethiopia and brought coffee north. This will have major effects. Ottomans were a coffee culture, not a tea one.
>>31857446I'm trying to avoid politicization or other unintended flame war starters, but this lecture by Neil Degrasse Tyson goes into some depth on the topic of religion and the advance of the sciences.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oxTMUTOz0w
>>31857515It did, coffee houses were the taverns of the muslim world. It was banned at one point due to being associated with european revolutionary ideas. I imagine it was like the prohibition, but even less successful
>>31857638And that's why we get the Ottomans to get to them first.
>>31857405>that feel when you will never sip strong coffee and smoke hashish with European anarchist revolutionaries in the steampunk Ottoman empire
>>31857638IIRC, when Charles II tried axing coffee houses in Britain, he came close to sparking an open rebellion. Within a month he'd backed off completely.
>>31857515I like to think both coffee and tea existed in this nutty alternate history. Just to give PCs something to entertainingly bicker about during downtime.
>>31857743Oh God dammit. I didn't need this. On the other hand, this is a great setting. Work your magic /tg/
>>31857466Next up would probably be a textile boom in Egypt where cotton undergoes massive cultivation and the Ottomans are able to dump their cheap supplies into Europe which feeds a greater demand for more product (as its cheaper than cloth from Europe's colonies) which fuels the growth of factories and small amounts of mechanization. As well, the lack of trees in Egypt means coal would be the easiest accessible fuel, which is where Bulgaria comes in. Meanwhile, the non stagnation of the Ottomans state allows them to resist European advances and stay ahead of the curve.
>>31855568Bear with me, it's been a while since I covered this part of Rome's history.Can solve (large parts of) the crisis of the third century by having Marcus Aurelius kill his son, a decision historians are certain he was pondering, and have Marcus succeeded by an actually good emperor, this ensures the solid political leadership. Crisis of the third century never occurs, thus the Roman empire is stable for at least a generation, probably more. And possibly most importantly, Rome's internal trade network remains strong.Change that Marcus Aurelius dying by the Antonine plague (you'll have to change the name if you do), then Rome has fairly secure northern borders for a generation. The Parthian empire is too busy falling apart and then coming back together as the Sassanian empire to pose a threat. Maybe even have Rome conquer Armenia for fun.The Antonine plague hit lower class population especially hard (always happens that way), drastically reducing lower class laborers, making them more expensive (slaves cost more). And sometimes there simply aren't enough hands for the job. These factors reduce the marginal costs of industrialization compared to slavery.Add in some luck, competition between patriarchs to industrialize, some GM fiat then boom, Rome industrializes.Please, someone blow my bullshit up if I'm completely wrong. Not even being sarcastic, it's been a while since I covered this part of Roman history.
>>31857683They did anyway. First european coffee houses were because of ottoman trade. The first one in vienna was started using ottoman coffee suplies when their army retreated after the siege >>31857761Yes, I think so. They're both good for trade and powering intellectual minds.>>31857743 what have I started? >you will never realise that you are a pawn in the Great Game and through espionage, action and adventure (and maybe a detour through the the harem of the Topkapi Palace) move yourself across the board for the faint hope of power of your own
>>31858222I feel like you'd have to GM fiat a pretty spectacular emperor after Marcus as well - keep in mind that the administrative and tax infrastructure of the empire was for the most part not up to the job of maintaining the army necessary to hold both the Danube and Eastern frontier - so you might have to fiat something like Diocletian's administrative reforms a century early, as well as coming up with some reason for the Sassanids and Germans not to invade almost simultaneously - but I'm sure you can handwave one of them out of the picture for 50 years or so with internal strife, or disease, or whatever the hell you want. tl;dr: instead of Commodus, fiat a well-liked emperor who carries out extensive administrative reform. Also Ardashir I gets diptheria or some shit and delays the emergence of a credible Eastern threat.
>>31858380Oh god, Marcus succeeded by a Diocletian-tier reformer. So juicy. Uuuuumf. Pagan Rome would've lasted forever. But yeah, total GM fiat.If Marcus Aurelius lived to finish the Macromannic wars then I feel Rome's Danube frontier would be pretty solid for most of the third century.I forget the the terms of the Roman victory of the Parthian war in the 160's and how the loss affected the Parthians, but if I remember correctly the Parthians got their shit-wrecked by the Romans in the succeeding wars, and then had to focus their attention internally due to the Sasanid uprising. Meaning a secure eastern front as well.But yeah, after Ardashir is firmly in secure the Sassanids are a big fucking problem.
>>31855008Germans = hard workers, pride of workmanship, strong sense of brotherhood and national identity. This is why they will always rise to the top.
>>31858716>mfw Rome had to station 25% of its military on the eastern border because of the Persians
>>31844870What about Mughal India anon?
>>31860058India industrialized about 15,000 years ago, and ended up collapsing into nuclear warfare. They don't get a second try at it, even in alternate history..
>>31860351Needs Himmler's face shooped on.
Bumping for steam
>>31854571How about importing the Black Death from Asia about 1300 years early? Half the population dies and suddenly those newfangled steam doohickeys start making more economic sense.
>>31855563The Leviathan trilogy is like the official YA series of /tg/>one MC is an Austrian prince>the other MC is a Scottish reverse trap>alt-history WWI with the Allies using mutant monsters instead of tech, and steampunk/dieselpunk Central Powers>with in-between powers like the Ottomans and Americans using a mix of both>plus those illustrations
>>31863347>>31849044I love how nothing changes in Albania
>>31864625Fallout EuropeAlbania, Albania never changes. >>31864383/tg/ gets custody of a lot of books, because /lit/ thinks they're below it and would rather argue about philosophy. On the topic of steampunk, I know that a key part of the early industrial revolution the UK was being able to move stuff around easily (with canals). Some ottoman with a lot of cash needs to find a way to move goods rapidly (the brit went on a grand tour, saw canals and realised he could move his cloth from factory to port really easily). There's already a big trade network in place for the ottoman empire just from location
>>31864820>Fallout EuropeYou mean the 1990s?
>>31864840Mainly after 1986, but yeah 1990s Eastern Europe is basically fallout.
>>31864820I like to imagine Fallout Europe as a never ending Yugoslav war. >>31864840I've seen this pic before. The Tigers right?
>>31867760Yes indeed. I still wonder where Arkan found that cute tiger cub he carried around with him.
>>31868052Black Market man. You can get anything there.
>>31868052I've just read his wikipedia page.I'm now annoyed that I've heard very little about the Yugoslav wars.Arkan was a fucking PCI'd say either black market or he took it from a zoo in the chaos.
Bumping for OttomansWhere are all the anons from yesterday?
>>31868052So, did Arkan really get murdered in that cafe, or was that an elaborate ploy to fake his own death so he could avoid be prosecuted for war crimes?
I remembered a thread that made me come up with premise of an engineer getting sent back in time to the Byzantine empire in a freak accident and becoming the court wizard and teaching the Byzantines about steam power, guns, and electricity.The Byzantines then proceeded to survive the crusades with their industrialized production, gun toting soldiers, steam tanks and ironclad ships.
>>31867069That's part of a set of diagrams drawn by an Indian mystic in the early 1920s, based on descriptions of flying machines in ancient Hindu scripture.Looks like a large, multi-deck aircraft held aloft by ducted turbofans.
>>31847946>Speaking of Jannisaries, Ottoman industrial revolution? Can it be done?Their major obstacle would be logistics. Agricultural infrastructure just wasn't that good, but they had the upper-middle class with the land and resources to drive an industrial revolution, but only if they had the interest in competing with each other instead of with the state.
>>31872495Huh.IIRC the description of the weapons of some Hindu gods matches the treatment and effects (to a point) of nuclear weapons
>>31855478>The Ottomans banned the printing press to keep their subjects ignorant.It was banned for a lot more boring reasons.The printing press challenged the scribal class and guilds, who made a living off their skill in copying and calligraphy. The Parisian scribal guilds got the printing press banned in Paris for a few years for the same reason until the monarchy learned they could use the printing press as a propaganda machine and for state bureaucracy.The Ottoman bureaucracy however was built on the royal scribes, who gave the Porte its prestige through their complicated regal script that was hard to counterfeit, so the Sultans had no incentive to adopt the printing press like the French king did.
>>31872600Goods infrastructure is a major thing they would need.Would canals be practical in the terrain and distance of the empire? (or at least near it's major cities)
>>31857466>a stronger Barbary corsairs which will fuck up Europe fierceI don't know, the appeal of the corsairs seems to be anarchy. The group that raided Iceland were likely led by North European renegades who like many of their kind became pirate captains because they wanted some freedom from plebian life/they just hated Catholics.
>>31872800The Ottomans once tried to build a canal in the Crimea to help facilitate their defense of the region from Russia. If that had succeeded I imagine something might have developed in that region considering it's fertile agriculture and sudden water connection with the Black Sea. Localized industrialization events might pop up not only there but in Romania, Bulgaria, and possibly Syria and Iraq, but it's a pretty big impediment. The Empire is huge and nomadicism really hurt its infrastructure over the centuries.A small, less over-extended Ottoman Empire might have handled it better - say they formed better relations with Hungary and didn't invade it, but kept a strong frontier along the Danube and Balkan mountain ranges. Then instead of trying to control the Adriatic and Sicilian sea lanes they focus on building up the Aegean and Black Sea.I'm not sure about Syria and Egypt however since the Mamluks practically leveled urban culture there by the time the Ottomans came around.
Just go full SJW and make the industrial revolution happen in Africa already. Sounds like you already want something like that.
>>31873213Because the Ottomans already have the mustaches and German uniforms to make the transition seamless.
>>31872976They did?Well given that this thread has happy rampant manipulation of historical events to produce various steampunk cultures then it worked.Egypt shouldn't be a problem. Suez canal can come early, perhaps.
>>31872976Well, actually, the Ottomans originally didn't want to invade Hungary, but where forced to when their client kind died in the 1540s or so.
>>31872495Got any more diagrams?
>>31876451Not quite sure how this one is supposed to work.
>>31874259They also besieged Vienna not because they wanted it as some stepping stone for further invasion but because they were asked to by their Hungarian vassal who wanted to make a protestant Viennese kingdom.
>>31876496Looks like some sort of ground-effect hovercraft.
Bump for life. Goddamit /tg/, we have fucking gold just waiting to be plundered and don't do shit.
>>31880547Such is the way of /tg/.
>>31880547Last night was nuts for it. Tonight not so much.Such is the way of /tg/A growth of canal systems and waterworks (pumps, wheels etc.) would be a key part of ottoman industrial revolutions