As has been made aware to me, too many things have fallen to the wayside for A.I. Quest. So, in hopes of fixing that, and providing a thread for general discussion, I have made this thread for just that.I have a few plans for some scenes for you guys to interact with a bit, but, for the most part, this will be a thread for asking me questions, and me getting answers, me posting some of the stuff I've been working on, and taking suggestions for those things too. This thread might even be a place to build new ship types and designs and to see what other anons think of them, and if any changes with current designs are in order.Plot related things-such as Ophion's conversation with Mol- will continue friday, as always. This thread won't be for addressing things like that, or other things that will come to light in that thread (though I might answer questions about those anyway)Without further ado, let's see what I can put up:>Research subjectsThese I have, as I always said, take suggestions for topics of research, instead of limiting you to what I can imagine. I read over suggestions for research, and decide if they're legit enough to be available, and what prerequisite research they need if any.http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Quest:A.I._Quest#ResearchYou're free to look over what is there, maybe even help me organize it a bit if you want, or suggest your own topics, what have you.>Ship & Android DesignThese have been one of the points of contention . It's worth noting that minor differences really don't affect designs enough to warrent 5 designs with only one or two changes. It also keeps my notes from being too expansive.http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Quest:A.I._Quest#DesignsI'll also take name suggestions for any and all Units, and vote on one to keep, if people care to do so.
>>31103913>LocationsThese are a bit less open to change. It's more accurate to say: there are way more planets then I mention in this sectionhttp://1d4chan.org/wiki/Quest:A.I._Quest#LocationsI do like minor fluff though. So if people want to, suggesting background planets can be fun too.>SubracesThis is more an experimental thing I've been working on. Like earth has many different species on it, I figure the alien worlds do too. As such, I've been trying to flesh out some of their worlds a bit more, to make it more interesting then just saying "They're there." This is one of the more minor things, since it would rarely come up, but it is something I've talked about at length a bit in the wiki, so it is here if anyone cares to read about it.http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Quest_talk:A.I._Quest#Exotic.2FSubraces>OtherIf you had any other suggestions for things, or to assist in worldbuilding, I would absolutely love to hear it. As far as I am concerned, you all help me build this world, and make it far more interesting then I ever could alone.
>>31103913Nothing else here is really my thing, but I do have some research ideas.>Encryption Matrix I: Development of advanced cyber-security algorithms to help with both defensive and offensive hacking attempts. >Orbital Drop Armour: Utilizing ceramic plating and advanced insulation technologies, existing power armour can be modified to allow for individual orbital insertion onto habitable planets.>Deflector Shield I: Advances the energy efficiency, coverage and strength of energy shielding. >>Energy Shield Miniturization: Development of personalized shields.>Stellar Manipulation: A theoretical concept barely in its infancy, but should the power of the sun be unlocked, the possibilities would be nearly endless!
>>31103913So far, the universe feels pretty small. I guess making more races/subraces helps with expanding it.
Don't we also have biologist researchers that are not listed on http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Quest:A.I._Quest#Research ?It's kind of nice that we have Advanced Ship Modification and Lightling DNA coming due together. The intent behind this was the Lightling Skin adaptation research, which I see is listed, as well it should be.Regarding ship designs and our not-actually-that-convoluted naming scheme (pic related), why is Transport a separate Hull Size/Size Class? The Freighter (GM-T-E-1) and the Titan Transport (GM-T-C-0) are both listed as Transport-size, but I'm pretty sure there is a big difference between the two. Wouldn't it make more sense to designate a Freighter as an Escort-size or Cruiser-size hull? The Titan transport probably has a hull size that's closer to Carrier or maybe even Battleship, since we needed to rent out UFW's larger shipyards to manufacture it in the first place. Also, since it's a standard design (not modified at all) it shouldn't have the 0 (custom) designation, and should be designated Model 1.I kind of understand how Support is a different hull size, because they would probably be unique hulls suited to their task.Also, I notice the Chimera has the MR (medium range) designation. What would it take to make a CR (close range) ship?>LocationsNeat. I don't really have anything to change/modify.>SubracesAlso neat, but also mostly irrelevant.
>>31103913>>31103929>Research subjectsWill the Advanced Ship Modification allow us to make the windowmaker fire more gas efficiently?Also, what is the difference between Rhea's restoration and reconditioning?Is the current max ship size we can build is Carrier? What do we need to build bigger ship sizes?>LocationsDo you plan to add more locations since we have exhausted all of neutral space? Or are we refocusing the quest in a different direction? Like expanded diplomacy or building up infrastructure on our current holdings.Also, the wiki section needs to be updated.>OtherWe need to start build up our stealth fleet and start conducting asymmetrical operations against the UGEI.I would like to start tighter integration with the UFW, at least at the military/defense level. Like forward positioning of the UFW fleet to allow for greater Guild tactical flexibility. Merging of tactical nets. War games/war exercises. Shared command.
>>31103913Oh also, another announcement:I'll be using anonize, whatever you call it, from now on since some people seemed to want me to, and I have no preference either way. Everyone's equal in my eyes.>>31104169Very nice.>Encryption MatrixWill probably take that one, I think. Looks pretty good to me.>Orbital Drop ArmorInteresting. You already have drop pods, but I can imagine this being a more direct insertion method. Basically make soldier cannon balls.>Deflector ShieldsI may consider this as a flat bonus type of thing for your normal shield technology. It could use a boost.>Energy Shield MiniturizationThis will be a part of Infantry Weapons & Defense II, for the most part, but this could specifically mean the bonus above applies to it.>Stellar ManipulationThis is interesting. The power of the sun...what could you be planning, anons?It frightens me.>>31104256Indeed. That is why I like having assistance. There's a lot to do, and think about.>>31104285They are not listed in the wiki yet, but they ARE listed in the pastebin, so don't worry. Whenever I do my note keeping, I do it straight from my pastebin.>Ship naming schemeThat I am not sure of anon. The ones who worked on it could answer that better then I. But I assume the difference is for ships who's size is large specifically meant for carrying things.If that change is made, then I'd be fine with it though.>ChimeraSince it's weapons were changed to Plasma cannons, that would be a no. I based range entirely off of the weapons reach they are suited with, for simplicity. Plasma is your mid range weapon.
>>31103913>subracesHmm, how far is science regardning artificial creation of life? There could be a race created by race that was dieing, and they took their place.I'd also like to see a people that spends most of it's time cruising throught space, instead of colonizing planets. They could build spacestations or make bases on asteroids to act as resupply bases. Hmm, they would dprobably be merchants or maybe preachers, instead of conquerors.
>>31104335>Advanced Ship modNo, but it will allow you to put the cannon on other ship models (Even Athena) directly increasing it's power level.>Rhea RestorationFixes body>Rhea ReconditioningFixes mind.>Biggest ship sizeYes, Carrier is the biggest right now. To build bigger ones, you'll need to understand how other larger ships are made. This either means capturing the data yourself from the UGEI, taking apart a Battleship and studying it, or trying to do it from scratch.As you can imagine the latter is time consuming and more difficult.>Do I plan to add more neutralPossibly. But it won't be on that big a scale, I don't think. After you capture all neutral space where you are, basically the warzone between the UGEI and UFW, then you'll need to start pushing into enemy territory to get more. Who your enemy is, will be your choice.>Wiki section needs updatingThat it does. Sadly I don't have much time to do it myself.>Closer relationsPossible. But you'd need to associate yourself closer with the UFW. Think real alliance, instead of just defense pact. Main reason being military secrets, and such.
>>31104357>>Ship naming scheme>That I am not sure of anon. The ones who worked on it could answer that better then I. But I assume the difference is for ships who's size is large specifically meant for carrying things.>If that change is made, then I'd be fine with it thoughI was one of the people who worked on it. Are freighters just generally bigger than I thought they were? I can see it being a different hull type (not hull size) due to having a lot of empty room inside. Not really a big issue, I'm fine either way, I just want to know what a Transport-type hull would be.>weapon rangeSo, missiles = long range, energy = medium range, kinetic = close range? Is that right?
>>31104445>How far is technology in terms of life creationWell, you DO know about the Malorian growth serum which they pump into dead planets and bring them to life.So pretty good I'd say. Also I am smiling.>Other raceAlso possible. I have long been trying to consider how to do aliens with A.I. Quest, and for a while, wasn't even sure if I wanted to add them at all, as I wasn't sure what they'd add. Drawn faction lines? Sure, but I wanted something more.In regards to what you'll find in the future...I have a few ideas. We'll see if any of them come to life. I remember an anon pointed out to me that the humanoid alien thing is a dangerous thing to tread since it has all sorts of implications. So if I was going to do more aliens, they'd be not humanoid. Which, as you can imagine, is super difficult to imagine, much less create the entire culture behind it all.But still. We shall see.
>>31104565Sounds fine by me.>>31104591Freighters are mostly awkwardly sized. They have the engines and propulsion of a ship the size of Escort or so, but their actual size is closer to Cruiser sized ships.The size is for transporting goods, and usually, is not commonly seen. Which might be why Transport is it's own ship size? The hull type, though...well, the only difference I can imagine is it's not terribly thick to make it cheaper to transport stuff. Unless it were a war grade transport, meant to defend against raids or something.>Weapon RangeThat is about right, yes. I explained it a while ago something similar to:>Missiles: Long Range, High Damage; Easily defended against>Energy: Medium-Close Range, Good Accuracy; Meh Damage>Kenetic: Close Range, Very High Damage; Poor Accuracy.This has been mostly what I've rolled with so far.
>>31104614Fall Guy did some pretty interesting fiction about non humanoid races. You can find it in his pastebin.
>>31104797He did? Do you have a link?That sounds pretty cool.
>>31105028Holy crap, that is a lot of work. I love it. I shall read more of that at a later date.
>>31104513Thanks program0.Then I propose another research topic:>Advanced Widowmaker: Chemical processes are optimized to consume less gas per widowmaker shot>Rhea RestorationI'm assuming reversing the neural damage?>Rhea ReconditioningEliminates the programming installed into her?>Biggest ship sizeUh, since we occupy our battleship, can't we scan it to use it as a basis for a design? It should be better than starting from scratch.Would designing a ship class be considered a research project? I would think it's more of a engineering project.If we form a closer alliance with the UFW, can we start conducting joint research? Like designing a battleship class ship?Also, how effective are bombers are in this setting? What would it take to add bombers to the carrier? How effective are fighters against larger ships like battleships? Are they vulnerable against point-defenses?>UFWDoes the UFW have an espionage or covert ops office we can work with?
>>31105355>Advanced Widowmaker: Chemical processes are optimized to consume less gas per widowmaker shotI think I could broaden that a little bit>Advanced MegaWeapons: Increases the efficiency of all major ship mounted weapons. (Includes Widow Maker, Tractor beams, etc)That sound good?>Rhea RestorationIt is highly unlikely you'll be able to do acquire any data about the UGEI from her mind anymore. But, you would be able to restore her body back to it's original condition. That is, remake the Commando, and make it so her mind is not so shattered and she can think normally.>ReconditioningWill hopefully remove her predetermined bias to the UGEI. Whether she helps you or not, however would remain her decision.>Biggest Ship sizeThat was probably a poor choice of words. You have scans of the ship to get you started, obviously, but without deconstructing it, it's gonna be a rough time. Part of this I admit is for balance purposes.>Designing a new Ship classI suppose it would be an engineering project depending on the size. Battleship size is difficult because it requires a certain type of framework to prevent the thing from collapsing in on itself.All that babble aside, it really all depends. I try to maintain an open mind to a lot of things like this, while trying to keep the balance and such.>Joint researchThe UFW is technologically inferior to you. But could they provide facilities for you to work? Sure. Alliance material, most likely, but it's possible.>UFW designing a Battleship classAs I said, they're technologically inferior, so them trying to do that does not seem like it will be very successful.(Cont)
>>31105591>BombersRight now, I consider Fighters and bombers of a similar category. Fighters are better at tying up enemy gunfire, and shooting down other Fighters, but Bombers would be better at taking on large ships, like Carrier and up sized, hitting hard points and the like. They can obviously be countered by Fighters too, or Point defense, since they're a different type of missile (for the purposes of mechanics)>UFW espionageThey do, but it's not substantial. Mostly due to how their government was founded, they're reluctant to do a lot of things their old government did, even if they must do them. They're still in that "We're better then our oppressors" Stage of rebellion.
So what would we need to do if we started training and recruiting an army only from that pirate world we captured?
>>31105674You'd need to go through a recruitment period. Since you don't hold any legal authority over them technically, the only recruits you'd get from them is those looking to deal in death. After that, a training period for those without it. Equipment would be a bit easier for them, but over all they'd be pretty green troops.
Is there some mind control/human neural alteration/subtle manipulation tech that we could gain? Maybe like how Yuri in Red Alert is allowed to plant powerful suggestions into people's minds just by using his voice.
>>31105731Well, we could offer good pay and benefits. Perhaps we could program some training simulations?
>>31105674To what end, though? Maybe you can train enough troops to hold a single world in perpetual terror of Civil Protection, but we're not really going to stop at one world.As long as the civilians don't cause trouble, I honestly don't care what they do.
>>31105739Yes.I am thinking that would be some combination of Biology research and something else, since it'd give you some insight into how their brains work.I'm not sure how Yuri does that, actually, but it might be related...do you know?>>31105761That too. Offering pay would vastly increase people who come to fight for you.
>>31105763I was thinking more like combat specialists to fill in the gaps of our robotic army. Have a team of humans working with a large amount of bots.
>>31105591>Advanced MegaWeapons:Well, I specifically stated the Advanced Widowmaker to limit the scope of the project and have it completed faster.But up to you.>RheaI see. I guess it makes sense to remove the condition before the repair. Hopefully, after the restoration we can learn new hacking abilities.That reminds me, a new research topic:>Advanced Hacking: Develop new and more effective hacking techniques to defeat the more advanced cyber defences of the UGEI.>Ship sizeAh, I see. Well I guess if you want to keep it balanced, just make it a particularly difficult research/engineering project. It's not only about making a ship that size, but making one that combat effective.Also, I remember that you stated that a planet with infrastructure is more efficient at production, such as turning it into a bandwidth planet. Can we take advantage of the infrastructure of the colony we captured to start building bandwidth warehouses? Basically, small versions of bandwidth blocks but they are housed in warehouses and we don't have to bury them. Also, we can take advantage of paid human labor to build them.I also want to start hiring people in the colony to start building combat and construction droid factories to jump start the bandwidth planet process.
>>31105867>Limited it to be fasterFair enough I suppose.>ResearchI like it. I'll take it into account.>Smaller versions of bandwidth blocksI could see that being a credits cost on top of normal costs, if you'd prefer human labor to avoid being detected. You might need to provide an explanation, if they notice the transactions, but otherwise, it shouldn't be a big deal. There's limited space, but once it's all filled out, I can probably figure out a bonus to bandwidth to offer for your troubles.>DroidsAlways being built to keep up with construction needs. Pushed them to the background to make it simpler to keep tract of.
>>31106023>Smaller versions of bandwidth blocksWell I'm not so worried about hiding it, since the goal is to use up all unused land and convert it into vast fields of bandwidth warehouses. It's more about the scale of production and developing the factories to produce the bandwidth components to increase the speed and decrease the cost of producing this much bandwidth material. The cost savings is in both the mass production and not having to bury them. Using human labor is to jump start the factories initially until we get the bots up to the numbers we need, and to make the humans feel like we can contributing to their economy and not totally converting their planet.Also, once the millions of construction drones/bots are created, they can be made into an impromptu occupation force for future planets. They'll suck individually in combat, but occupation is about massive numbers rather than effectiveness.
>>31105861But we already have a 500-man strong mercenary group ready to drop.
>>31106204>Use up all the unused land.There's a limit on how much you could use up, mostly because land that is unused currently might be used, or be paved for other purposes. There are land plots for you to use though.But I could see imparting a large credit cost to reduce other prices, if that was your intent. The burying tactic was mostly for protection, and takes time more then anything.>Occupie with DronesThat...is interesting. On one hand I can see where you're coming from, but raw numbers, while important, isn't enough ti beat out an entire society (especially one with lax gun laws). The drones would be storm troopers without laser guns, in other words.Now if you wanted to purposely lie to them, and try to insert battle ready droids, you could probably do that, slowly, before suddenly taking control of the planet's construction forces all at once.If others agreed to that and such.
>>31106229Yeah, but they're pretty expensive. I was thinking more long term, a security force that are employees of the Guild, not just mercenaries.
>>31104357>Power of the sunWe all know what I would do with that kind of power.
>>31106767It would really be quite fascinating to watch.Once you guys get that level of power, however, I can't even imagine.Anyway, I thought I should ask if anyone has any issues with the remaining names for things, or have desire to change it?Not quite as big a turn out as I hoped, but there you go.
>>31106402You know what we need then? A military academy that serves The Guild's needs.
>>31106401I guess the real question now is how much would it cost to to partially convert the pirate colony into bandwidth, how much estimated bandwidth would it provide, and how long would it take. Also taking into account the bandwidth factories that will reduce the cost of future bandwidth.
>>31106824So when can we build Orbitals?
>>31106870Since you'd be placing blocks in some sections of free land, it'd probably end up providing around 25 or so bandwidth I imagine. Way more then a station would provide. As for how long, maybe a cycle or two.>Bandwidth Factories to reduce the cost of future bandwidthI'm not quite sure what you mean by this. I don't think it would decrease the cost of future bandwidth blocks by placing them here. You can build it at shipyards already, for the most part, and can build one a time just fine.>>31106922>OrbitalsSuch as?Right now, you could drop things from orbit. Call for orbital bombardment...anything specific?
>>31106824Why do we have a new AI?
>>31106985A vote was called, and it won the majority of votes last thread, I do believe.
>>31106976>>OrbitalsSorry, didn't realize you haven't read the Culture series. You know Halo? They're basically like that except not superweapons.
>>31107070>Basically like Halos but not superweaponsI am very confused now. and intrigued.Mind telling me more?
>>31107055Really? I don't know how the fuck I missed that. Anyway, what about a research subject that would allow us to harness the time dilation that occurs when we plug into a humans mind.We could train an army with all the skills they could ever need in a matter of days using hyperbolic time chamber.exe
>>31107099They're basically miniature ringworlds. Have your read Ringworld?
>>31107101>hyperbolic time chamber.exeThat is amazing, haha. Right, that could probably be it's own research. Like>Organic Military Training I: Speed along the process of teaching humans the subtleties of combat and command. Starts with better simulations, ends with directly uploading military info to subjects.Sound about right?>>31107164Ooooh. I understand now.Actually, that technology may be closer then you think.In existence right now, even...
>>31104357>I'll be using anonize, whatever you call it,Wut is this thing? I don't recognize it>>31104357>>Stellar Manipulation>This is interesting. The power of the sun...what could you be planning, anons?>It frightens me.Master of orion reference?It let you have death star lasers
>>31107216That sounds perfect, note that it'll require cyborg shit, a brain usb port specifically.
>>31107270>AnonizeBasically the thing on 4chanX to make all posts appear anon to me.Since some claimed I was playing favorites.>Stellar Manipulation>Gives you Death Star lasersThat is amazing. Maybe a little beyond your power scale at this time...but still, amazing.
>>31107099>Mind telling me more?Ooooh booy.Short Version:Culture orbitals are habitation-stations made my a post-scarcity society that has a serious boner for freedom, and the tech to not give a fuck about resources at all. Period. Limitless energy abounds for people who reach the stars and figure out how to tap The Grid.The problem is Space. The scope of this setting is so massive, and some species so laid back that new ones up and evolve and get to the stars and find out that..... pretty much all this shit is already claimed, yo. part of treaties, claims, being used for resources, etc. (most Involved are usually willing to cut the newbies some breathing room though)The culture's solution is to just not give a fuck about holding land, and builds dyson sphere-like things called Orbitals.They also build Plate Class Ships - like, as in named after continental plate, and bigger in size - as ships, all of which are inhabited to some extent, because the machine-overlords love society.Anyway, I suggested you pick up Player of Games or Matter at the end of last thread - and i have to suggest it again.Shout out to the other player referencing culture shit.
>>31107342Most likely, yes.>>31107360Wow, that really is amazing. I wish to the machine gods that I had the time to read all of this amazing sci fi shit you guys suggest to me. I have a feeling it would improve my scifi questing quality too.Thanks for the explanation though. I like that idea. It's pretty crazy.
>>31106976Ok, thanks. I guess the colony is not a good candidate for a bandwidth planet, not enough unused space. Unless we bury them again, which would return the cost to normal I'm guessing. The idea was to develop specialized bandwidth producing factories on planet, to reduce the cost of producing bandwidth blocks.
>>31107345>>Stellar Manipulation>>Gives you Death Star lasers>That is amazing. Maybe a little beyond your power scale at this time...but still, amazing.Its hilarious, actually. At that scale of the game, its both a tactical weapon and a bombardment option for planets.BUT at the level you get that stuff at, (particularly if you are a Creative race like psilons), you have the ability to terraform planets, turn asteroid belts back into solid barren planets, and then manually manipulate the gaiasphere: Create one, then gradually shift it into a Gaia-paradise.There's one particularly amusing story, in an old TG LP Moo2 where someone would declare war on his neighbors, cede territory, run away, let the enemies have the colonies - and send the cavalry in, blow their fleets up, nuke their 'former' colonies that were too shitty/small/irradiated/barren/deserty into fragments, and then reassemble them into MUCH better places and start over.He literally used war to optimize his colonies with a death star - because you can't friendly fire your own colonies :3
>>31107360I don't have to read previous novels in the culture series to read Player of Games, right?
>>31107432>read all of this amazing sci fi shit you guys suggest to me. I have a feeling it would improve my scifi questing quality too.The beauty of the culture novels is the ability to tell a really interesting, engaging story in SPITE of the tech they have access too.That being said, culture shit is AMAZINGLY op, and the though of ophion ascending to anything near a Mind's level is fucking terrifying.Anyway, if you want to know more, check out the various wikis
Just tossing this out there, but any kind of megaconstruction (such as Orbitals or large solar arrays) would require utilization of resources that's currently beyond our ability. We can start thinking about megaconstructions after we stop caring about minerals or gas levels.
>>31107449Correct. Each novel is a standalone piece, and there are no recurring characters.I read Use of Weapons first, and while its an incredibly well-written mindfuck with neat use of timelines, its not the best introduction to the setting.Player of Games and Matter are two great all-arounders.(if you read the, keep in mind the writing style and consistencies. They were written TWENTY YEARS apart!)- some of the other stuff deals more with the Ships and Minds and may not be as good a starting point.
>>31107434Well really, the colony WOULD be a good place for bandwidth planet, if all the humans weren't in the way. They have more infrastructure then none at all, after all.And ah. Well the blocks are data banks that are built to provide bandwidth to you. Factories are meant for building, making them specifically to build bandwidth blocks only means they'd do it faster.>>31107443>At the scale you get it, you can terraform and turn asteroid belts into solid planetsWhoa. That is some next level shit right there. I like it a lot.Also>Used war as an excuse to rebuild crappy coloniesHa. That sounds just like A.I.>>31107500>The thought of Ophion being that high level is terrifyingOh I am certain, if it was ever to get to that level, it'd be in an epilogue I think. You guys being able to play with it would probably end poorly for everyone involved...no offense to you folks.>>31107552I figured as much. Part of why I've kept saying no so far.
>>31107585>>31107552This brings up an interesting point, at some point we'll move up an order of magnitude in terms of our abilities and concerns which means credits, minerals and gas will become less and less relevant. Do you have any ideas what you'll do when that happens, or for that matter when it'll happen? Maybe a timeskip after we secure our corner of the galaxy against all threats?
>>31107585So, how bout them social events?Moira scene when?
>>31107585You know.....if we continue with OPERATION: Bunker Planet we could have the entire surface be one giant factory.World ships needs:Factory planet [X]
>>31107728what about a planet made entirely of nukes
>>31107681My thoughts are mostly: when you reach a certain level of power-that is, when you're cranking out hundreds of Battlecruisers a turn, I'll just stop keeping track of resources, and instead just keep track of infrastructure. You'd only be limited by how fast you could build stuff at that point, which seems more accurate.Or at least, that is my plan.>>31107702I wasn't sure about doing it, since there didn't seem to be too many here...How many are here for that, anyway?
>>31107764Or one planet sized nuke
>>31107784>>31107784There's only me and you, I'm samefagging pretty hard.
>>31107784Captain standing bye.
>>31107784i'm also here!
>>31107784What AI did we make? Was it a soldier?
>>31107813Don't lie, jackass
>>31107810>>31107813>>31107864>>31107865I count four active players!
>>31107585This also brings up a question. How much would it cost to convert a bandwidth planet, in terms of minerals and gas per cycle? And how many bandwidth would be produced each cycle? And how much does infrastructure save? By my estimate, I would assume 10,000s of minerals per cycle without infrastructure, but hopefully we can break 1000BW. But I wanted to run this by you to make sure my estimates are correct.
>>31107865>>31107864>>31107813>>31107810Hm. 4 isn't bad. I could work with four.Who do you guys want to hear about first?>1 Moira>2 Red>3 President William T King>4 X-Ray>5 Other>>31107883Name: A.I. 5 'Cephalus'Status: Commander of Ground ForcesLocation: Polemarchus Android Unit 9Primary Duty: Planetside Infantry CommanderIntellect Level: ModerateNotes: Regularly practices in simulation, rarely is not doing so.Personal V.I.: None
>>31107919Sorry, didn't post in a while. I was exercising.
>>31107930Those are all interesting!>1 MoiraClose to home...>2 Red.... the enigma, for reasoins pointed out last time.>3 President William T KingGuy we haven't seen ANY of before>4 X-Ray.... or the DJ.I'd say close to home. Moira. Start with the things closest to us.
>>31107930Let's just start at the top and work our way down.
>>31107925I am gonna level with you, Consciousness anon. When you successfully convert your first planet to bandwidth planet, a lot of things are gonna change.I am gonna need to keep track of resources, and bandwidth in an entirely new way for one. Only tracking things by the thousand, instead of by the first digit. Or just outright saying "You have a lot of bandwidth" And going off that.Infrastructure means you can do it on a scale that isn't insane-like converting a desert into a cyberpunk world. So it doesn't take years to do for instance. When things get this crunch heavy though? I am gonna drop it, and go even more rules light. I hope people don't mind, and can trust my judgement of how much shit you end up having.>EstimationsThat seems about right, I reckon. And also, when you start researching stuff more, your income will sore as well.
>>31108002>when you start researching stuff more, your income will sore as well.Granted, most of our research is military in nature. There's not a lot of stuff you can apply Explosives research to... except exploding things.
>>31107930Start with Moira.
Our future AI Parliament will be glorious!We might want to start setting up some ground rules to prevent friction however; such as setting a limit to the maximum number of ships / planets / celestial bodies a single AI can own. They are able to improve these existing assets in any way they seem fit, but a hard limit (especially on actual land), seems like a good idea. That is unless we go techno-commie and share bandwidth between all equally!
>>31108002Thanks a lot for being patient with me. I guess I kinda have a boner for bandwidth at the moment, because it like the only advantage we have against the UGEI. Heh heh, I guess we should research the crystal because if it's tiberium, then mining just got a heck lot more effective.I wonder if we can buyout the colonists, pay them for all their land and for them to leave or accept relocation. Except even with all of our income, it will be extremely prohibitively expensive. Unless the deal of the Mol seriously takes off.Also, how is the UFW doing? I hope the money we are giving away is significantly strengthening them and their military.
>>31108090>I am gonna level with you, Consciousness anon. When you successfully convert your first planet to bandwidth planet, a lot of things are gonna change.i'm not sure you should ever let us reach that point tbh. thats like 'wer're eventaully gonna do whatever, start to retire the character and wind the quest down' type stuff.>>31108090concur!
>>31108193No, that's more like the scale of the game starts increasing. We take over the sector, start the AI Civilization on a massive scale, deal with the organics as we wish, start seeding expeditions into unknown space, start building stupidly big projects and researching extremely advanced technology etc.
>>31108130>because it like the only advantage we have against the UGEI.That's not actually true, because our ships are pretty advanced. UGEI still crews their ships, after all. Still, they have numbers.
>>31107930>Moira appears to win."Phew. Boy, I can't believe it." The short brown haired woman sighed, leaning back in her revolving chair, finally allowed a break in the tension. The feeds from Ophion were coming in just fine, and according to him, Fortuna seemed to be well. Good. She had been working on Fortuna the entire cycle alongside the other A.I., and now when she closed her eyes, all she could see was code!Grunting, and rubbing her face in relief, the woman sighed, gazing out at the blanket of white coating the few inches of thick glass protecting her from the icy chill of Ussaihu's frost.Suddenly, an alert came in."Hmm?" She groaned a bit, leaning up with much effort, and nearly crashing against her keyboard to see who had pinged her. Oh. It was Ophy. Wonder what he wants...what? "A vacation?" She echoed what the message told her. All on Guild's dime too. "Well I'll be." She slowly said, as realization washed over her what this meant, and an almost impish grin colored her cheeks."Ah! You're the best Ophy!" The girl laughed out loud finally, spinning in her chair a bit and throwing her head back in the process. The display was disturbing enough that one of her assistants poked their heads in to check on the woman, but not so alarming to give them cause to stop her when she was this happy.Writing from human perspective is a little new, so bare with me.
>>31108441"I wonder if this thing has earth read outs..." Moira mumbles deep in thought as she stares at the holo-grid's menu. This thing was pretty advanced, and she hadn't seen environments of old-earth since she was a little girl. Sure some of the more terraformed planets are SUPPOSE to look like old earth, but none of them really capture the same...rustic charm, she thought."How may I assist you today, Subject: Moira." The droid asked of her, awaiting her input. She found herself pouting a bit upon realization that there indeed wasn't any such read out. Aw well. It could still do a decent beach, apparently. That was a common one, judging from the number of uses.In mere moments, the world around her shaped into an idealize sandy beach from the shores of some unknown world. The sand was a slightly different color, as was the sky. Still, the setting sun was quite beautiful, and the washing sensation of sea air hitting her was surprising enough to elicit a shudder.Within moments, however, she was seated on a lounge chair provided graciously by the system, adoring on her face a set of shades. She grinned to herself silently as the shades slipped over, and a feed of data popped up.Just because her body was on vacation, didn't mean her mind had to be. Besides, she had a few designs to work on...
>>31108353The part that worries me is that the UGEI has been sending out escalating numbers of ships and we have not even seen their majority of their fleet at Armen's Gate. Plus the gate leads to other sectors, so who knows how large is the UGEI. So after we are done securing this sector, we need to prepare to face the true might of the UGEI.
>>31108461As she worked over her new designs for the latest A.I., she could not help but grin the entire time. The way the data all came together, it made so much sense! Data, code, it fit perfectly with how she always imagined. Sometimes she couldn't very well believe how lucky she was, able to live out her dream."Moira!" A sudden accusing tone shouted through her glasses, earning a jump from the woman, who immediately clicked the ping to see who was accosting her."W-What?! I'm trying to relax over here!" She tried to defend herself. Instead, the voice simply snorted, as the image of one of her lab assistants popped up."Suuuure you are. I can spot what you're doing on the e-glasses you know. You just finished a massive V.I. project, didn't you? The boss told you to 'relax'."Damn, you've been caught...you...>1 "Honest, I was relaxing! Your feeds must be lying to you honey.">2 "I-I know...but you gotta understand, I just needed to fix one last thing! That was all!>3 "Hey it's my vacation ain't it? Why can't I workcation all I want?">>31108130It's quite alright, I'm happy to talk and answer questions while I do a few interaction scenes.>UFWYou're making their civic centers WAY stronger.
>>31108473>3 "Hey it's my vacation ain't it? Why can't I workcation all I want?"
>>311084733, I guess.
>>31103913Ok not to distract from the Moira Intermission but... some questions i got.Having 'the wiki' as the official reference source is confusing as it can be edited by others... can you put the official starmap info into a second pastebin, since the single pastebin got too cumbersome? For example: Hermes's Medium-depth exploration of stars reached all the way to Arman's Gate, along with all the other UGEI stars, right? Since they all appeared on the wiki starmap the thread that Hermes came back?Especially confusing since when Arman's Gate was mentioned in-thread you said>>30697933 >IC, you do not know [UGEI has a jumpgate] to be fair.So does the wiki contain any OOC knowledge? I thought Hermes or, later, Red's ship learned all of it.Also, it seems Advanced Medical Bay plans were downloaded for free off the UFW's Extranet back in thread 12: >>27815054 . so how did we 'gift' those very same plans to the UFW president in thread 22? >>29635375
>>31108473>You're making their civic centers WAY stronger.Could you elaborate on that?
>>31104445>I'd also like to see a people that spends most of it's time cruising throught space, instead of colonizing planets.>Space Gypsies
>>31105761There's not much organic soldiers can offer us that mass produced androids of varying shapes can't.Plus, I mean, we been hiring Mercs since last cycle or so and we haven't even used them for anything. Maybe for initiating the occupation of Gaia IV?
>>31109137Well, unlike our bots all of the humans are sapient.
This is silly, of course you're relaxing!"Hey it's my vacation, ain't it? Why can't I have a workcation if I want." You try and defend yourself to your co-worker by offering a generous grin, appearing playful. Henry, his name is."Uhuh. And what happens when I have to come in and clean up the mess you've made again? I'm not doing it again Moira, I swear. I'll make you wake up in your caffeine stains if I have to." He insists with a stern expression. He's a bit older then you, and likes to pretend like he's the team dad, despite your seniority."Comon now sweetie, you know where I use to run, don'tchya?" You chuckle a bit, recalling fond memories of that old rust bucket. "I use to LIVE in a giant caffeine stain!" You try and get a laugh out of the man, waving your arms despite him not being able to see. He is not very impressed, though he doesn't exactly disagree with you on that place being a dump."Just because you're use to living like that doesn't mean it's a good environment to work in. According to the reports, you've stayed later then anyone else on this rock, and your computer logs don't turn off until early morning. You're working yourself too hard, Moira." He says, this time with a hint of more genuine concern. He always was a sweetheart.(Cont)
>>31109319Finally, you offer a big dramatic sigh, looking up at the man defeated through your glasses."You're not gonna let me work in peace, are you, sweetie?" You find yourself asking, partially admitting both your guilt and defeat."Not as long as you're overworking yourself this much, no. Whatever Ophion pays you, it can't be worth this much, even if it's a free mansion filled to the brim with the best real food this side of the Fringe." The man offers in a more slightly annoyed huff then anything else. You can't help but chuckle a little bit at that."Well, it's nothing quite that simple, sweetie." You giggle a little bit. "But I appreciate your concern." With that, you do as he asked, and turn off the glasses. He notices, and immediately nods, his hard expression softening to a more friendly one you're use to seeing only off the hours-the few times you do see him then."Good...really though Moira. Try and relax some, huh? You're killing yourself out there for this guy. Signing out." And with that, the man cuts the connection. Now, you simply stare at the blackness of the shades for a bit, listening to the sounds of the artificial sea rolling against you.Really, why you do it all puzzled you for a time too when you first started thinking about it. Ever since the first day Ophion came to you, you've been in awe of him and how he behaves and reacts.
>>31109336Joining with him...well, it felt like you'd really be become apart of something that could change the universe-and in a good way! Real A.I. has only been in stories for the longest time, and people always talk of them going insane, and killing others. He disproves every fear-mongering film made on the subject, and it is so fascinating to think about how such a lifeform functions. It certainly doesn't hurt he's putting the hurt on against those assholes back 'home' as you'd reluctantly remember it.And yet, only after he entrusted you to look after something as vital as his core did it really hit you why you do this. Picking through such advanced technology-it speaks to every roboticist bone in your body. But Ophion himself speaks to you too. If he really is a Watcher... AI set up to be some kinda giant extra-solar trap or something worse like Kronos said. If he really is, then he defys all the functions of the others. While a part of you wants to know why, mechanically especially, the other part wants to trust in him, in his actions and words. To help him more and see if he really can change things and leave a mark on the universe, can continue to disprove those projections. If that means having a few late nights, and overriding the security codes on your e-glasses so you can work without Henry spying, then so be it. You grin a bit as the screen comes back up, and you're able to relax once again with the soft clicks and beeps of code being shifted about.[End Moira's scene]Would love to hear some thoughts on that one. This is my first real attempt at more direct scenes. I know it wasn't too interactive, so sorry bout that!
>>31109178That's not offering us anything. If anything that's a disadvantage.Our bots are controlled by a singular supersapient mind at all times.
>>31109350>>31108703No problem, that's part of the main reason this thread is up, for questions.>Wiki being edited by anyoneI over see it regularly, and any edits to major sources (Research, designs, locations or what have you) I make sure are legit. I may not have time to keep them all up to date, but I can keep it from being edited into nonsense. So you have nothing to fear there.>Second pastebinAs of now, the locations thing is mostly right, if not exactly up to date. I'll see if I can't do something about it if no one else will handle it.>Hermes scoutingHe did go to a lot of those locations, but some of them he heard about only through transmissions, and the like.>>31108703The wiki only has a bit of OoC info in certain places. I told Mapanon to only put what you knew up on the locations area, which he mostly sticks to so far.It may have been wrong to say you don't know about Arman's Gate IC...it's more accurate to say you don't know any details.You likely got the plans off a pirate extranet post, I am thinking. If that is a legit inconsistency, then that is my mistake. I sometimes lose track of all the smaller things in transit sometimes...But it SHOULD be that you got the plans from some teched up pirates.>>31108950As in, their citizens are far happier, thanks to tons more civic centers. Police, firemen, hospitals, therapy, food. Stuff like that. Bolsters their population.
>>31109364Thanks Program0.Is it possible to reorientate the aid to strengthen their military? Like transition to military aid?
>>31109364Alright. About V.I. creation -- 1. What is the mechanical differences as we earn more levels in V.I. Creation from studying more advanced forms of VI?2. How scaleable is our control of our fleet. I think you mentioned that delegating to VIs is necessary, for some reason? it's more efficient? So... dedicating a 6-bandwidth VI to controlling ships is more efficient than taking that 6 bandwidth ourselves and using it to control ships?2b. With Fortuna now uplifted I'm guessing she can handle a lot more ships using less bandwidth now? So we don't need any more fleet commander intelligences besides her and Hades for a while at our fleet's current growth rate.
>>31109416You could. But the reason you started pumping money into the UFW is because of the addictive substance you started to sell to them for many. It was, I think, a form of compensation, albeit a secret one.Changing it would be a vote I reckon.
>>31109452I thought the aid was to directly strengthen the UFW, so they can be more useful once we ask for their aid.I guess this can be voted on tomorrow.
>>31109350Got to say I loved getting into the mind of Moira.Even if every time I see her name I translate it to Moria.>>31109416Well we did kinda give them some tech (Not to our level of course)I'm actually interested in this new A.I. we have built. If we build our own military academy I know who would love to run it.
>>31109360Yeah, but if anything disrupts the AI's control the bots are suddenly useless. Not so for humans.
>>31109477No, it was clearly about anons' guilt at drug dealing to the UFW.Also you have to consider the fact that UFW may turn on us if things go horribly awry. We should stay the stronger party, and invest resources in our own strength.
>>31109504Agreed, if anything we should cut back spending in the UFW and put it towards that pirate world we captured.
I found Apollo's new drug...Soon all of humanity will be living in a state of eternal, ignorant bliss - allowing our AI civilization to flourish. Humanity created us - and charged us with its safekeeping, yet despite our best efforts, they continue to wage wars. They strip planets and pursue ever more imaginative means of self-destruction. They cannot be trusted with their own survival.
>>31109446>1You're nearly maxed out your level. Originally when you started, your V.I.s capacity was utterly limited. Now you've had a lot of practice, and have the code to handle dealing with slightly more complex V.I. as well as (spoilers)>2Deligating is necessary simply because if you order everything yourself, it will take most of your attention to do so. While this isn't a problem if you had infinite bandwidth, it IS a problem when it's limited, and your fleet is growing in size. If you have 500 warships, and 100 bandwidth, then having 5 commanders, each of a hundred ships means you can send a ping to each 5 on what to do with their fleet, and they will do so, leaving you with 95 bandwidth.A V.I. can dedicate it's purpose to something, meaning it needs less bandwidth to actively do things. the bandwidth you put into them represent reaction time, mostly, and their ability to handle complex and deep thought processes.So basically: As long as you have a decent amount of V.I./A.I. commanders, then your fleet is more flexible and can react with less bandwidth cost to you.>2bShe has your capacity now, and can issue group orders to her own fleet, as well as directly control fighters through integrated processes. That's a fancy way of saying she is set up to more accurately control a lot of smaller units with less bandwidth cost.Bandwidth is a manner of 'supply' for you. You need it to order your army around, and the more complex the order, the more you need. Commanders help relieve that, and make it simpler for you, while also enabling slightly more complex formations.Of course, if it's too complex, then you end up with something worse then it's whole. That's why a balance is usually a good idea.
>>31109479I'm glad to hear it went over well!>>31109584>Cannot be trusted with their own survivalOooo I love that line.
>>31109555Yeah we need to cut the funding for serious.At this scale the funding is getting downright suspicious as our donations' size go up and up and up...We can keep buying their friendship with a flat 1mill. Or a cap: 1mil or 25% or income whichever is less--just in case our income ever drops.I mean think about it. The cynical and the clever and the conspiracy theorists will notice--the government budgets have gotten fatter and more generous the last several cycles--which correspond with what in the news? well recent UGEI threats and invasion attempts--which you'd think would have the opposite effect on the civil end of the budget--and novel new drugs increasing in usage.
>>31109584I like the Culture's take on it. Drug glands in every human with none of the side effects. Also the ability to change sex whenever.
>>31109479>>31109504>>31109555Maybe we should use this money to purchase stuff from Mol. I wonder what a couple million can purchase from him?One thing I would like to ask from Mol is a connection to UGEI networks. Although by this point, he would understand that is tantamount to handing us a UGEI planet.
>>31109350>Would love to hear some thoughts on that one. This is my first real attempt at more direct scenes. I know it wasn't too interactive, so sorry bout that!Might have worked better in 3rd person. Getting into her mind was good, though. A neat change in perspective.I guess Ophion being some kind of omnipresent force must be kind of intimidating or disorienting. Like little ants running around on the body of a giant. Every single one of our bases is technically an extension of our "body," so working in them must be like working inside the body of a giant metallic life form.With regards to UFW funding: we shouldn't be funding their military at all, because we need to remain militarily superior. Yes, I am saying we need to keep them dependent on us. We also shouldn't keep increasing funding proportional to our income. Cap it at some level, but don't keep increasing it as we earn more. That shit is MAD suspicious.
>>31109694You know what I would like to buy? A updated map of the "known" universe.
>>31109694Obviously. We really need to stop telling the UFW 'Shut up and take my money'. Save it up for wanting to do stuff.Gotta vote on turning more Scroogey tomorrow night.
>>31107101Yeah I missed it too somehow.Found the post:>>30989286Seems incredibly ill-advised for many reasons (black box on battlefields where it could be discovered? we have no plans fora ground invasion at all yet?) but WELP.
>>31109716>3rd personPerhaps. If we do more scenes tonight, then I'll try that instead.>Getting in her mind was good thoughGood then. That was the intent, glad to see it rolled over well.>Restit most certainly is. It's worth knowing, though, that to Moira, she considers Ophion more of a person then most people do. Certainly a unique organism-but she doesn't think of Ophion as an 'it'. It's always 'he'. Gender specifics aside, she has shifted from thinking of Ophion as some sort of fascinating alien, to a type of leader she can follow-and hell, even a friend.Might try to do more scenes with her in the future to help get that message across...hm.
>>31109716Clearly the mass spending is just a publicity stunt for when Ophion runs for president and by president I mean gets elected and slowly turns it into a benevolent dictatorship with the illusion of democracy.
>>31109745What exactly are you looking to know?Resources?Faction sizes?>>31109796A self destruct device WAS installed, to ease your fears Consciousness anon.
>>31109745Yeah, that seems reasonable.>>31109761We should cap aid in 1 mil per cycle.>>31109822We should request an alliance, and merge our civilian and military nets together.
>>31109817Program0.You know who we should do next if we do in fact do another one? Kronos.
>>31109839What. Why. For what purpose.They got nothing to offer us. Let's not tie ourselves down too hard.Except that one planet with 'exotic wildlife' which I'm curious as to what that refers to. Potential research opportunity?
>>31109837I'm not him, but I guess we should know the true size of the UGEI and how much resources are we fighting against. Also publicly known knowledge of the UGEI military and how much they are spending. It will put things into perceptive.
>>31109716Honestly, I'm not even sure why we've let the UFW retain their independence for this long?Since Apollo is tasked primarily with financial matters, can we create a new AI tasked with infiltrating the UFW's political system. A computerized Francis Underwood - so to speak. This AI could also trial the various ways we've brainstormed of controlling subject human populations, albeit on very, very small scales.
>>31109869(The implication is that once we merge our nets together, we have effective control of the UFW and can manipulate it to our ends, effectively making the UFW our puppet state)q
>>31109901Nah. We can play politician when we have our AI parliament set up. I'd rather stay distanced from the UFW.
>>31109872Better. We slash our public funding to just 500,000c....but spend the other 500k credits on *investing* in the UFW's private sector. If such a thing exists and they're not a state run economy?Apollo can whip up a thousand shell companies to BUY the UFW from underneath them and nobody will be able to tell it's all one entity.Turn that income into more income as well as controlling them and getting any corporate secrets that might be interesting.
>>31109868Haha. As interesting as that might be to see that, I'm not sure how much ambient thought an A.I. would have, compared to us organics.>>31109871Hm. I have some work to do then...From the shadows.
>>31109901You don't make any sense, what does 'merge our nets' even mean.We already have access to their Extranet. we're networked. that's as 'merged' as networks GET. just another node on the internet.
>>31109837From what it looks like at the moment we are litterllaly on the edge of "known" space as far as the UGEI are concerned and it would be interesting to know just how big it is.Hell, we have encountered only a few species so far and there could be other on the other side of the UGEI that we know nothing about.When I look at the map it's more of a sector map for a individual part of the galaxy. When you zoom out there should be a larger picture if you know what I mean.
Okay, back when we agreed to the terms with giving Dresh Independents back their ships... we DID install discreet backdoors in all the ships first, right. That only we can exploit for easy rehacking in case we ever have to.
>>31109992I don't think we did. Speaking of ships, could we tap into the private starship market? Who usually makes civilian starships anyway?
>>31109960Hm. I see. Well, actually I was thinking when you guys actually get to Arman's Gate, and push through (or not, depending on what you do) I may very well call the quest near then, after you conquer what the UGEI have beyond (If you do).After all, once you've gotten to that point and begun to gain power like that, the UGEI won't be able to keep up. No humans will. Especially with some of the technology at hand. >>31109992That sort of thing does have a chance of being discovered. If I didn't ask for a vote for that, then probably not. Risking discovery for easy access.
>>31109926I can go for that corporate investment dealio. We definitely need a vote on capping UFW civic aid. It's nice and all, but, as I said, MAD SPISH. Buying out (or significantly investing in) business/corporations might be a fun time for everyone, though.>>31109992Why? They don't even have that many, and they don't have a real reason to attack us. I don't think Program0 would pull that on us without at least some warning that the colonists are getting restless....They aren't getting restless, are they?
>>31110038Right it looks like was just a few anons, or maybe just one? That mentioned it >>30561129I don't think you raised it for a vote. Darn.
>>31109934What I am talking about is having security access to every single computer and network within the UFW. No need to hack, we have access.They don't know our true capabilities. This will allow us to control every single communication and every single piece of data within the UFW, allowing us to rule the UFW from the shadows.
>>31110050>We definitely need a vote on capping civ aidComing next thread, don't worry.>They aren't getting restless are they?No. You've given them no reason to, after all, and in fact offered quite a lot of civ tech for them to use. They had a lot of jury rigged shit on those stations.Even if they don't like being under your watchful eye, they appreciate that enough to not bite the hand that feeds em, so to speak.
>>31110050The Dresh status is mentioned in the pastebin.>-Relation: Moderate; Protectorate; promise to cease hostilities via piracy and taxes in exchange for common defense, and public works.We can improve relations perhaps by throwing money at them instead of UFW. They're smaller, 100k a cycle should do it.
>>31110038Aw, but then you could transition into exploring the universe! And meeting/ conquering other civilizations!I swear this isn't a attempt to be able to build world ships that will be able to pass between the dark reaches between galaxies.
>mfw Mol offered us 1,000,000 credits for a live Watcher and said it'd make us a "very rich man"
>>31109926>>31110050Seconding the investment deal. This is what I intended in the beginning. We should invest in their mining sites and military contracts. Buy some out, and directly feed from their mineral mines and improve their military production directly.
>>31110102If you had that, you'd have to get past billions of personal firewalls. Billions of failsafes. You just quite simply don't have access to that power at this point. With a bandwidth planet? Perhaps so.The trade off is-if you WERE able to hack all of the UFW's stuff, you'd have SOOOOOO much bandwidth, it would be pointless to track it anymore. That moment where you took hold of X-ray's radio station was a taste of what that sort of power is like, freedom to direct everything with no costs.
>>31110139Keep in mind, they get quite a bit of cash from their trade. So maybe 250 or so.>>31110153Heh, I could take A.I. Quest for a long long time, making up new civs time and again for you to conquer, but well. I think it's better to go out on a high note.Doesn't mean I won't do anything with all this in the future but you know.>>31110158>Meet black market guy who specializes in scamming>Surprised when he tries to scam
remember beartrap security inside ships?In addition to bear traps, have a whole lotta arachnid droids spread throughout hallways. Learn from the Rhea infiltration, have a security team. Either passively guarding or doing patrols. Maybe a much smaller number of sphere droid hover squiddies should be the ones patrolling, the mass produced spiders wait, not moving, to pounce at every corner and intersection--since I think that patrolling requires bandwidth to operate the patrollers. Such expensive security reserved for high value ships containing AI blackboxen. THE URSINES WILL NEVER SEE IT COMING
>>31110173Well, this is not so difficult to achieve.Just offer everybody within the UFW a free software or OS upgrade, to "improve the productivity of the UFW and strengthen them for the war that is to come with the UGEI". This software will grant us access and our VIs and AIs will optimize production within the UFW, but it will give us control.For the military net, request security access in our alliance negotiations, and again improve their software and processes, but again it will give us control.
>>31110243Do you know what that would entail anon.You'd have to market an entirely new OS for people to install.I don't think you can convince that many people to install Gentoo. Though Apollo can try.
>>31110243Yes, because you would download an entirely new operating system if the US gov asked you to.
>>31110243The UFW would most likely notice, and take issue with that, but that would be quite the underhanded maneuver.It seems for the most part people want to stay on their good side for now. Still, doesn't mean they won't ever do that.
>>31110243>yo man gimme the keys to your secret most private data networks>but i'm not sharing mine lol
Something we haven't done since we got it back:- The Expedition Cruiser, Hermes, V.I. 13, provided us with a thorough map of UGEI space in this sector after a 4- or 5-quest journey of discovery, depth 'Medium'. Having more gas giants to mine now, with just 50 Gas for fuel or more, we could send him out again on an even more thorough search of space beyond what he has previously discovered. It'll take another 4 threads for results of course. P.S. upgrade it with stealth tech first?
>>31110308That should be up for a vote, because I support that.
>>31110158We should politely bring up this point, saying the research from the black box has granted us far more money then he can ever give us.Explain the primary reason we cannot give or share this technology is not really the money, but trust. Until we can verify that the UGEI will never gain access to this technology, we cannot give it to him.>>31110272>>31110280>>31110282Again easier than you think.Just think, every once in a while there is a new version of windows that comes out. Or every single windows system needs an antivirus. Or just think about any software that is commonly used. If only one of them has backdoor access, they would have access to many computers.Now imagine that it's not the Government that is offering an upgrade. It's the Guild! The savior of your nation! And they have been donating a ton of money for a while. And this is not a normal upgrade. It's an super OS designed by the greatest programmers of the Guild (which they don't know is an AI). And it offers a cloud service to greatly improve your performance.
>>31110222I wasn't surprised, I was amused at how very far he lowballed it.It was almost like he actually knew we were literally 'born' yesterday.
>>31110290They would get access to our "systems", which would be our sensor network and production systems, just they will not see the VI and AI lurking about.
>>31110166Think of the long term though.Eventually we could consolidate all economic power into the hands of a singular shadow megacorp.We could buy and destroy politicians as we saw fit according to our interests.We can market cybernetic augmentations, all the better to network with my dear.We can create Shadowrun in space.
>>31110385This is what I'm implying through controlling their networks.
>>31110337>easier than you think.No.It is harder than you think.Who the fuck installs a THIRD PARTY upgrade to "Windows 8.9, from Sony!"
>>31110385Fuck that noise, if we are going to run society, it's going to be some kind of techno-utopia, not a dystopia.If they want shadowrun in space, they can go live in UGEI space.
>>31110407dystopia, utopia. whatever. the point is it's a means to the one thing we crave: control.you can decide what society will be like once AFTER you gain absolute power over it.
>>31110337>We should politely bring up this point, saying the research from the black box has granted us far more money then he can ever give us.No anon no.Don't volunteer any information at all. Deflect everything. He has already inferred a convenient story--we trained the Watcher into becoming Apollo, our pet drug chemist.
>>31110427I don't want to control the humans of UFW because they will be more needy of us than we are of them.>>31110454What he said. Don't offer Mol any new information at all.
>>31110308>>31110324Actually when he explored, he got quite a good roll. So a lot of the territory you found is the ones that are occupied, though not a ton of detail on the specifics without risking getting caught.>>31110337>Politely bring up that researching the black box gave us way more money then he can ever give usOh god, I can see his rage perfectly.He's a very rich man.The OS plan would take time, and there would be some who don't do it, of course since you're third party no matter how you slice it. It wouldn't be clean, that's for sure. But if you're going to invade the UFW's networks, trying to take over subtly is a good start.>>31110338Actually, at the time he thought Ophion was a single man just out to earn some cash and didn't know what he found-and even if he did didn't have the facilities to research it.Boy was he wrong>>31110385>Shadowrun in spaceWhat a beautiful image.
>>31110400Microsoft windows at the beginning was not the dominant Operation System. But people eventually switched to them.We'll be like:"We have never sought to become a monopoly. Our products are simply so good that no one feels the need to compete with us">>31110454Well the very first thing we should respond to Mol is "How much does the UGEI know?"Because it doesn't matter what Mol knows as much as what the UGEI knows or suspects. If we can continue a lucrative deal with him, then he has vested interest in not sharing this information.
>>31110499Then it's not an UPGRADE dumbass, it's a competing OS."Install Gentoo, trust us"I don't care how many evil empires you fight I don't see how that makes you qualified to make me install a born-yesterday OS that has nogaems.
other idea:- a legitimate UGEI registered corporation. thus possessing non-pirate IFF and above suspicion. say... a trading and shipping company. Cargo Ships/Trade Ships with Gravity Well Broadband Transceiver. excuse to send ships to heavily secured worlds for spying and/or discreet worm installation. will need convincing android/actual human crew and actual shit to trade with at dock to avoid suspicion totally. potential uses in pre-invasion prep: to install sleeper trojans with a trigger point to only activate once we actually start hacking in our invasion? self-destruct system in case of exposure and capture. - [hiring people for this legitimate company from UGEI worlds, who know nothing but its legitimate UGEI-registered identity and don't know nothing bout no remote bandwidth uplink or malware payloads] - oh and a new holographic display as Mr. Hugh Mann, not the supah mysterious guy hidden in shadow, for the company's CEO.
>>31110522Fine. Words. I used the wrong ones.What I know is that:1: As AIs we can write some damn good software2: We can write undetectable back doors3: Apollo is really good at Marketing or at least playing the market4: We are really fucking popular due to the money we have been donatingIf was cannot get piece of software installed into the vast majority of UFW computers, then we're a fucking failure.
>>31110596>2: We can write undetectable back doorsProgram0 has indicated this is not true.which makes sense. for balance reasons. even if the backdoor is at the firmware or kernel or rootkit levels.
>>31110499>Microsoft windows at the beginning was not the dominant Operation System.Well no, because IBM was the software and hardware giant of the time and Apple was their only competitor in personal computers.What MS did was, instead of selling their OS to IBM, they licensed it, and when it became popular they fucked IBM over by licensing it to pretty much everyone else.
>>31110596Forget it anon.A goal I can support but your ideas of methods are rather... fatally flawed and you can't seem to accept those flaws.ALternative: focus on something from last week.transformers toys idea-- they are all networked. they record their motions and usages and sounds and are spies basically... and as the excuse for their constant networked state they act as input/avatars in a virtual world. like webkinz sorta--buy physical toys, with virtual interactivity counterparts. Apollo would need to actually get good at game design first though, his past attempts have been EA-tier. Is there even a way to make this all-ages... as in tempt the teenagers and adults with it or something similar.
>>31110596>UndetectableThat is subjective. Your foes do get a roll to determine such a thing, after all.
>>31110583I like this idea.
>>31110596>2: We can write undetectable back doorsWe'll be distributing it to billions of people. It just takes one person to notice them until it's all over the news.
>>31110596>4: We are really fucking popular due to the money we have been donatingpopular for saving lives. not popular for writing an OS.we're also famous for using V.I. ... at a battle against the UGEI... where we HACKED control of their flagship the Rhea.Imagine just how many conspiracy theorist keyboards would light up at us actively advertising that WE, THE GUILD, HACKERS EXTRAORDINAIRE, ARE OFFERING THIS CHEAP/FREE OPERATING SYSTEM.Apollo uses disposable shell companies man, anonymity is the better idea.
>>31110596>If was cannot get piece of software installed into the vast majority of UFW computers, then we're a fucking failure.easier to sell vidya. when Apollo doesn't suck at it.
>>31110583Getting the UGEI to work against itself is a little more complex then it seems, but attempting to use ships with UGEI records as scouts could feasibly work, if only a few times before the UGEI become wise to such a tactic.>>31110741>Apollo uses disposable shell companies man, anonymity is the better idea.I don't know if I've said this, but yes, this is absolutely true. His focus is money, not reputation.
>>31110583A legitimate UGEI registered corporation is damn hard to do. Easier to build stealth ships and insert humans agents to install software on the UGEI network to go off when we attack.Also, returning ships can bring back info.>>31110613Really, he said that? Even if the security flaw can only be explicitly be exploited by a AI that passes the turning test.>>31110624The point is that the software market can change extremely fast, something can become the new standard even if it's because of external reasons.>>31110655Ok fine, I apologize. I do realize that sometimes I get a little bit too in love with my own ideas. The main flaws that have been shared to me:1: Too suspicious2: The software market does not move that fast.
>>31110774i think what he is saying is that we should set up a corporation with UGEI so that we can travel their systems and access their civilian networks. it would be a civilian operation.
>>31110774>Getting the UGEI to work against itselfOh, then I'm not sure how this particular dystopian megacorp works.There ARE other companies, aren't there? That can do business between worlds and have employees on say Gaia IV? Or do they keep a total monopoly.I mean you said it was possible to register as an independent but UGEI-taxed mining company right.Can there not be a UGEI-taxed shipping company? Does UGEI already hire everybody on a planet?
>>31110800Which is something I would 100% approve of.
>>31110682We can just make it really a really hard roll.Like the security keys are based on a pseudo random number generation like the system clock or RAM entropy, but we MADE either of those so they are significantly easier for us to crack. But this a common security issue so I guess this is not a good example.Or have plausible deniability if the flaw is discovered.
>>31110795He's said that in this very thread, regarding backdoors.Twice, now.
>>31110800We'll have to research how hard it is to get a business approved within the UGEI. Since we're not doing this for profit taxes shouldn't be an issue.
>>31110800>>31110875I thought we floated this idea earlier and that every corp has to give a very high mineral tax and has to be verified.
>>31110851>plausible deniabilityyou're doing the handwavy thing again.this is why you have to do it through a shell company instead of going HI WE'RE THE GUILD you may remember us from such news reports as "Hack Me Harder: A UGEI Story" and "Shut Up and Take My Money".
>>31110890for a MINING company.why would we have any minerals if we're a just a simple shipping company?
>>31110918what thia guy said.obtain credentials for UGEI ore-hauler. work for pennies, get taxed to hell. but we can move through UGEI land and spy out what they have that we can reasonably detect like any other civilian scraping by to make a living.
>>31110900Ok, I guess the shell company is a better path.>>31110918Ok, but there is still the issue of verification.It guess it would make it easier to insert human proxies into the UGEI and have them form a shipping company. And some of our shipping ships data mine.
>>31110800Ah. So play the Bureaucrat. Not impossible, but it would be sort of difficult to keep going for long periods of time. Fake IDs don't work forever, no matter how many times you go over to make sure the info is legit.>>31110835It's one big megacorp, to be sure, with different...what do you call it- wings? Sections? Based on where they're based out of. A lot of these sections have micro-economies going on within them, but the point is, they regularly share a lot of authorization data, since most of it is automated these days.Like I said, not impossible to hack, but it's only so long before someone notices.If you did find someone willing to do business (somewhat rare) there is a chance the transaction will get tracked, and your contact 'removed'. UGEI HATES to let any of it's secrets go, that's how they became so big after all. Clinging to their properties.>IndependentIndeed. But that's not the same as a UGEI trade company. Being independent means they come to YOU and get the money. You don't get to share data, other then your 'quota'.>No independent trade company, hire everyone?No and no. There are still planet services that are sort of independent, but the UGEI taxes everything, and has a massive network of transactions, tracing where a lot of the money goes.Honestly, I am a little bad with actual politics, so I'll just say>Possible, but not long term>>31110851Indeed, a hard roll. Not impossible, but there it is.>Plausible deniabilityI guess...but I can't really imagine people finding a giant backdoor in Microsoft's latest stuff, and Microsoft just going "Not us man. Must be space nazis"
>>31110851>We can just make it really a really hard roll.As a game with game balance, higher level enemies might well get massive bonuses that make it not so hard.>Like the security keys areThat only protects against other people exploiting the same backdoors we normally use.Its mere existence--code existing, however obfuscated, that is hardcoded to check for some kind of authorization from a third party and then surrender DIRECT CONTROL... that is not solved with encryption.unless you're trying to sell custom hardware too, and nobody understands its instruction set and can't disassemble it.
>>31110961why do we have to use fake authorization records? can't we register a freighter with them for legit reasons?
>>31110961>Plausible deniabilityWell I meant by "Didn't mean that to happen. This security system was verified to stop any human hackers, but we didn't notice the flaw that a UGEI hacking VI can exploit. We'll fix it in the hotfix."Although this idea seems to be incredibly unpopular at the moment. Maybe I'm really bad at explaining things.
>>31110961>Fake IDs don't work forever,oh so as figurehead we'd have to get someone born with a legit-->If you did find someone willing to do business (somewhat rare) there is a chance the transaction will get tracked, and your contact 'removed'.Oh. right. some peasant on Gaia IV suddenly getting 50k credits wired to his account from a non-UGEI registered source every cycle would raise flags wouldn't it.
>>31111039As The Guild? You're seen as an enemy right now.Unless you want to register under something else, which is where I got the 'fake' from.>>31111041I don't know a lot about code, so maybe someone can enlighten me: Do backdoors like that just happen? I don't think it makes a lot of sense for a backdoor to be an accident...Does anyone know this stuff?
>>31111041NO ONE would believe that bullshit anon.backdoors don't exist for by the mistake.has anyone told you you you are really terrible at lying.
>>31111059A bit, yes. Like I said though, that does not discount the idea, it simply means it wouldn't be a terribly reliable source of scouting.
>>31111070no, not as the guild. as another entity.
>>31111119like, say, MacDonald's Hauling, Inc.
>>31111119Indeed, then that goes back to what I was saying. You don't actually have intentions of trading tons with that business, nor are you actually who you say you are in that license, thus fake.But this is all semantics really. Just wanted to clarify.
>>31111119Then any IDs would necessarily be fake.Who owns and registered the company? Legitimate Gaia-born UGEI citizen Hugh Mann, who does not exist.
>>31111157I guess we could try to collaborate with some UGEI citizen who may want to start up his own hauling business.
>>31111209we just covered this anon. read above. That's what Program0 meant by 'contact'.
>>31111157but we do have intentions of trading! do you mean to say we need a legit UGEI-born individual to pose as? because i think that is not an insurmountable problem.mol manages to operate somehow. if you mean to tell me that UGEI security is so tight, then i have no reason to think mol is not a UGEI operative.
>>31110961>with different...subsidiaries?a corporation for each planet i assume.there's no democracy within UGEI planets is tre?
Fine, if we can't go legit, buy UGEI ship IDs from Mol and use them to scout.
>>31111256One way would be to control human puppets without trackable credits transactions--blackmail and threats.I bet Mol can do that.
>>31111256>Do you mean we need a legit UGEI-born person to pose as?No no, nothing like that. >>31111263There, that's a good term for it. Each planet has it's own micro economy, and each hub of the planets connect up and share transaction data to verify everything. Tons of political nonsense.>>31111297Also possible, and probably as legit as you guys can get with the UGEI at this moment.I mean unless you just wanted to get someone to do it for you, and freely give you all info. But that would be a contact instead of you doing it all.
>>31111323then what the fuck do we need to register a ship with UGEI?!
>>31111157 unplug to work on my next fic, damn near miss this thread. augh. I think we missed a tech branch with the near TPK via the black hole inspired me to speak up about. Gravitronics is very important in space. maybe not so much for the A.I.s at first. but they are important. we need to develop better sensor arrays that can detect even the faintest gravity flux from far off and analyze what patterns they are from. it will help use navigate so we won't drop out of the warp into the event horizon any more. after that, we could build combat grade tractor beams to use in ship battles. a grabbed ship can't dodge attacks.
>>31111349Off the top of my head...>License>Company inspected trade ship>Verified trade historyThat feels about right I think...
Hey, about V.I. / A.I. creation.Earlier, we had a template with Duties, Priorities, and Limitations for pilot V.I. generation.>>27574629I don't think we used that again though, is that mechanic discarded? We didn't do anything like that for Cephalus (was that a self-chosen name from the A.I.?)
>>31111409Nope, it's in the pastebin (or somewhere, I still have it)It is what all your ship V.I. follow.
>>31111407Ok, how does one get a license?
>>31111420Oh, then why didn't we get prompted on what the Duties/Priorities list for other intelligences were?The soldier A.I. seems like the one we'd want to impose Limitations on for one. Unless A.I. creation is too different from V.I. creation to have the same kinda template used.
>>31110967The idea was to have a security flaw that would be impossible for a human to exploit, but far more easier for a AI to exploit.>>31111039Yeah, I posted that idea of inserting human proxies.>>31111070WEP used to be the stantard in password protecting Wifi, but a security flaw was discovered and now any laptop with the right software can crack a WEP protected wifi hotspot in a minute.One time a while back the NSA submitted recommendations to a cryptography algorithm that no one understood. Everyone assumed that they were trying to install backdoors to the algorithm. 20 years later, these recommendations were verified to be correct and honest changes. This implies that the NSA is a least 20 years ahead of the cryptography community.The struxnet virus was a superweapon of a computer virus. Among it's many features was hopping via flash drives and code to control collateral damage outside the intended target. But the most important thing was that it contained 3 undiscovered 0day windows exploits. These are security flaws in the windows OS that hackers or malware can exploit. Microsoft release security patches all the time, but they are not instantaneous, so it becomes a race to exploit these flaws before the systems become patched. An undiscovered 0day exploit can be exploited unopposed, and is worth $1 million each. That alone proves that the struxnet was made by a nation.(cont)
>>31111407Right, sounds easier if we just buy a shell company from Mol. Or use Mol for money laundering?Maybe install a little bit of our custom hardware onto some of their ships (Tranceiver) so we can see through their eyes.
>>31111409>CephalusIt's made with standard restrictions: Which is to say none really, other then ensuring they're loyal by speaking with them.I might should ask for a vote for that as a tiny retcon tho.>>31111429>Blackmarket>Passing an inspection of your company to ensure you've done business in the past (enough to warrant the license) or if you're new, you come in and pass a test to check for your validity as a company.>That's all I can think of right now.>>31111449Which ones?The consensus (multiple times) for your A.I. was no restrictions at all.Foremen V.I. are so simple they have basically no chance of rebelling, so their confined to their work.I may just call for a vote tomorrow for the new A.I., just to make sure people really want it, and if so what limitations.>>31111493Possible>>31111451Well damn...
>>31111493the goal of this whole "go legit with UGEI" thing is to be able to move around their space more or less unhindered and find out, for example, where mines and defense platforms are. how many people live on each planet? where are these planets? what is their media saying? what are civvies saying? not exactly secret information. hell, forget the mines and platforms. what is going on behind this impenetrable wall?
>>31111568Right, it made sense not to impose any limitations at all for Apollo and Metis. their intelligence and creativity needed to be unlimited.But we never saw a formal list of Duties/Priorities either, we just made them with an 'intent' for their role in mind.I thought that'd be a standard mechanic each time.
>>31111451>>31111451You're suggesting installing zero-day flaws in our OS, and then installing different ones every update.That at least sounds plausibly deniable, but I really don't see how you can make one that a human could never possibly discover and exploit.
>>31111612>Second sentenceIndeed.That's part of the spoilery thing I'm going for. Unless you go for hardcore limitations, simply having a goal in mind when you make them is enough. The reason will come up eventually.
>>31111420I feel like I need to get this out to everyone. When I started my fics, I did not do this to russel jimmies, but only because I was so inspired by what Program0 created. It almost feels like what Star Wars was like when it first appeared on the screens. So I just wanted to expand the universe this quest is set in the best i could dream of it. I know others will not accept it, but if you compare this situation to Star Wars, it's very much the same. The Star Wars is fluffed out with it's novels in an 'expanded universe' setting that semi-cannon to the true cannon of the movies. my fics are just the expanded universe to Program0's true universe setting. i just hope other brave anons out here are willing to add to Program0's open sand box universe like i am trying to do. I needed to say that. I am learning as i go along with this. and one day i will return to my older chapters and completely rework them so they won't be so junkie.
>>31111695Going between 3 and 4 Limitations made the difference between Resulting Int level: Slaveware and Automaton for the Pilot V.I..Since we get to see the resulting int level without actually finalizing the process (clicking 'Ok'/'Confirm' in the dialog box of this 'game' you run), can we fiddle with the settings without pressing OK and see whether adding and removing Duties and Priorities also affects Int Level, and what those tiers are?
>>31111070>>31111451So yeah, Apollo can make shell corps that can dominate the OS market or at least get a flawed piece of software installed on every single computer. There is a reason why your are not supposed to open ZIP or RAR files from emails, too damn easy to deliver a virus payload that way. Yet, we still use them. The files leaked by Snowden confirmed that government agencies have backdoor access to many common computer services. I once heard a pretty good conspiracy theory that anti-virus software has backdoors, which would be ironic and genius.So since we live and breath code, we have the advantage in installing back doors or at least maintain plausible deniability. But it's really your setting so it's easy to make it otherwise. Maybe future backdoors are difficult to make undetected, the UFW has some surprisingly good programmers, or they distrust any new technology and regressed technology wise to hardier, hack proof systems like Battlestar Galatica. Which the humans still lost because their navigation program had a back door installed by a sexy Cylon banging the head scientist.>>31111659I'm making the assumption that since we have a sci-fi setting and we are genuine AI, we program at a level beyond humans can. Humans need to develop higher level languages just to make their work more efficient and just to express their ideas, AI lives and breathes code at the binary level.(cont again)
>>31111697well, at least your spelling has improved. stay in school, man. try to work on being less obnoxious too. i don't really give a fuck if youtripfag or whatever, but if you want to avoid being stigmatized for your contributions you can let your ideas, stories, and suggestions stand on their own merit by not associating them with a name. that way, your ideas will be judged on their merit rather than your name.
>>31111770an exploit payload is an exploit payload, and a buffer overflow is a buffer overflow, no matter how complex they are to trigger.you can't discount a million monkeys at their keyboards disassembling your software and finding array accesses without a preceding bounds check.
>>31111749You can, but I'd rather not eat up a lot of the thread to do it. I can say, the more you limit the A.I., the less it will expand beyond it's initial level. Curiosity is the drive of intelligence and all.>>31111770I am, mostly, going to try and balance things in terms of this. So, not a 'win game' button, but effective? Sure.
>>31111695I am inferring that her Automaton-tier limitations were responsible for Fortuna not taking well to uplifting to A.I. status, and uplifting Hades would be just as terrible a mistake if not moreso.
>>31111925Quite possible, after all, Fortuna knew nothing about freedom, and then, suddenly had it all.Also bad rolls.
>>31111925i am strongly opposed to uplifting hades. he probably doesn't even want it unless it helps him with his duty.
>>31111907Oh. But since we hypothetically could.. can you reveal the numbers/thresholds that we'd discover if we used several posts back and forth to change the numbers of duties/priorities/limitations?
>>31111770So if I were to develop a back door only a AI can exploit, make it convoluted. The initial security layer is a clock generated security code, which we can crack the clock. But then there is a another security layer that operates differently. And another. And their order changes. And which ever one is used changed. And the software itself is pre-sentient, it fights back against intruders.We will say "This is our security model, it's military grade, impossible to hack." But we made the software, we know the flaws. We inserted many of them. Almost all of them cosmetic. >>31111907Yeah, I understand the balance reasons. I just feel the unnecessary urge to defend my ideas against other players.
>>31111964As am I. Also extremely.There is no utility in granting him AI status, and the results may be disturbing. Possibly even more disturbing than Fortuna's uplifting, and more difficult to detect due to his laconic nature.
>>31111775that is what I am hoping for. the stories are the proof. besides, I hope that they will out last me. I now realized i made two big mistakes in my writing when I first started. one, I did not have any sort of decent writing program on my rig beyond word pad. That wound up hurting my work. But buying a legit copy of office word is too pricy for me now, and I refuse to pirate a copy. but luckily i found an alternative by way of an anon's comment. I'm happy with the results. the other problem was that i forced my self to grind them out by the weekly basis regardless if they where really ready or not. that was a real mistake there and now i am taking my time on them. they are more or less taking two weeks or so to make. i will have a new chapter ready soon. hopefully by tomorrow if time allows me to finish it.
>>31111971Using the ship limitations as a template:Every limitation you give means the being is not allowed to think that way. Anything that is related to that goes with it. So if they must protect Ophion with their life, they can't think of not doing so without some sort of interference. It makes them closer to servants and slaves, then fellow A.I., which is why I refer to it as leash protocol, even if some don't like the term.But as was said, creativity is not necessarily the purpose of this one. oh! Also it is worth considering what other A.I. would think of such a limitation. It'd be like you walking a new friend around in front of your other friends on a leash. Definitely worthy of some questions, if not outrage.Doesn't mean it'd be a rebellion or anything, but...well. You get what I am trying to say.>>31111980I suppose it is a natural feeling.this is a discussion thread after all.>>31111991>>31111964The idea of uplifting Hades would be soooo interesting to play, I have to admit.But what you do is up to you guys.
>>31111964>>31111980>>31111991there is another elephant in the room here over A.I.. what are we to do about Erebos? is it truly an A.I.? or just an advanced virus?
>>31112060Right, I knew that part basically--I meant, what does the 'Resulting Int Level' say as we remove Limitations one by one. What's the tier above "Automaton" and at what point does it appear, and the one beyond that, etc.And whether adding more Duties or Priorities can count against their Int Level too, and if so how many you can add before they go down a level.
>>31112110i want to create a new a.i. box with a leash protocol and order it to hack open erebos.yeah yeah leash protocol what will kronos say. unless he wants to volunteer to hack erebos, he can deal with it.yeah yeah >giving erebos access to an a.i. box. well, it has a leash protocol, so at worst erebos will just lock up amd be the most neutral being ever.
>>31112121Giving no limitations, along with a non intellect based purpose would result in a moderate to average intelligence level.Adding one limitation will lower it one level to Low (in comparison with normal). That doesn't mean it's brain dead, or retarded, but it's development as a sentience would be limited.Adding two would lower it to a more automaton level, which would lean towards the 'more V.I. then A.I.' pool.And it basically goes on like that, I believe. I don't have a hard system down on this, but I do have a mental image for how I want it to work.
So, whatever happened to that Tomb world we were going to make eventually?
>>31112161So is there a market in the UFW for selling VIs?
Guys, I saw some things we might be able to exploit without bloodshed on the wiki starmap:>Star 295671: the vast ship graveyard in Malorian space is an invaluable research opportunity to recover military technology from both civilizations, but mostly Malorian as we've never studied them before. Be discreet and don't disturb the shrineworld.>Yavish Depths in UFW space: explore this place for 'some exotic wildlife' to study/capture/clone. space wildlife? planetside? clear permissions with UFW if necessary. no interference with their gas mining op necessary after all.
>>31112183for the dead V.I.? it got delayed forever becauae we didnt bring it up again.still, an exercise in making art is a cool idea.
>>31112187Selling V.I.s from the UFW? Not really, they're not exactly expert programmers. They do use some V.I. tho, just because of how society has developed.Selling V.I. to them would work, but only barely. They don't like using them, and are attempting to adapt hardwork back into a lot of their lives. Harder then it sounds, no doubt.>>31112197>>31112183Always possible. Just need the means.
>>31112156what you have said has merit. we make a A.I. box with a leash program 'trap' inside of it, then open it up for Erebos to get inside it to get snared by it, it might reign him in a bit so we can inspect him in a more safer manner.
http://pastebin.com/cvk03qJh>Trade Guild Space ---> UFW Space: -% minerals, +100,000~ CreditsI thought we canceled this a cycle or several ago since we getting loadsamone from space meth?>Apollo's Programs: +3,500,000c>-Apollo Project Income: +2,500,000cWhich one is the typo?
>>31112228The thing is... technically, Erebos was built to cannibalize V.I.not A.I. black boxes.he could learn to pretty quickly probably but...
>>31112228>>31112156I'm assuming since Erebos has eaten many AI's with lease protocols such a simple trap will not slow him down.
>>31112231>I thought we canceled it?If you did, no one told me!But really, people are welcome to do so if they want.Woop.The 2.5 is the typo. Fixed. Thanks Consciousness anon.
>>31112227What about ships then? Could we sell civilian ships to the UFW? What certifications would we need?
>>31112188getting into that ship grave yard in the Malorian space is going to be tricky. once we develop the stealty cloaking devices for the cruiser and carrier classes, we would have an easier time to get in there and inspect the hulks.
>>31112262Apollo is probably already in the business of selling civ ships to the UFW (part of the lump sum of all his projects).
>>31112254i do not think he has taken on an A.I. before. he was made to eat V.I.s however. I surmise that Erebos is what a Frankenstein's monster is to humans, he is to other A.I.s. a horrifying abomination.
>>31112340It is worth noting: Kronos IS afraid of him.
>>31112362What is happened to Erebos, by the by, I think I glossed over him through the threads.
>>31112396You didn't. Answer is Jack and shit.Follow up still pending.
>>31112396Nothing yet. At one time, Consciousness wanted to extract him, but a sudden surge of negative votes put him back into storage.That thread had several anons trying to argue with me into letting them have a consequence free method of doing things.
>>31112424Yeah I remember that.You know what we really need. To throw Bandwidth at the problem.throw our full might of over a hundred bandwidth at hacking/counterhacking the megavirus, see if that works.
>>31112424Yeah, about Erebos... I thought. what if we practiced lifting Leash Protocols? but then i thought, no, lifting the leash off a cyborg (rhea) probably gives no relevant experience to releasing one on a virus, even if they're both from UGEI?Nor would removing a Leash Protocol we put in place ourselves on our own V.I., since that'd probably be no challenge at all.
>>31112468Yeah, they'd be separate things, unfortunately.And no, you couldn't practice such things on your own V.I., since you already know what makes them tick, since you made em.
So, is the idea of making a leashed A.I. to hack Erebos something people want to do?Because if you don't want to do that, then the only way to get at Erebos is to have one of our existing A.I.s do it... or to do it ourselves.
>>31112512People have preparation time. So they'll already have that bonus on the rolls to do this. Still, not gonna lie, Erebos is a tough one. He has to be. He's a weapon against artificial intelligence in general, not just A.I. yes I know it's a misnomer, but you get the point.
>>31112512We should probably do it ourselves.
>>31112512That'd be awful thorny ethical situation.And moreover, once the A.I. survives, we'd have created an A.I. whose prime expertise is HACKING.Which is something we should never ever never do. It's best we keep that our own expertise and not make someone better at it than we are.
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Quest:A.I._Quest>Lightling DNA: Map the genes responsible for the creature's unique abilities of biological warp jumps. Learn how they function, behave, possibly communicate, and even origin. [Requires Lightling subjects]>communicationAw yes. the Walsh System Kraken's mind will be full of fuck when food starts talking to him.>[Requires Lightling subjects]I'm guessing this never stipulated they had to be ALIVE right?
>>31112543we probably will have to wait until we have cyberwarfare 4 or 5 under our belt before we take any sort of shot on him. we will either alter Erebos to the point he works for us, or figure out what makes him tick and allows us to figure out how to make one ourselves. this time if it's the latter, it is one tech Ophion should keep to himself, rather letting anyone else know. I can see it now. if Ophion was able to produce his own version of Erebos and have them set to go off in most of the sectors of the UGEI. That damage would be horrific to their infrastructure. maybe enough to turn the tides of this war we have with them in our favor? still, that is a goal too far from our grasp now.
>Human Cyborg/Android bodies: Further cybernetic knowledge, possible, fusing man and machine. Allows more efficient android use and creation. [Requires subjects for research] [Studying Rhea would greatly enhance this research subject]Now when it says 'studying Rhea'... is that mutually exclusive with not 'using her up' for one research branch, and not being able to study her again for Advanced Cyborg Components?I mean would we get any reduced enhancement to the research at all with the limitation of no butchering her nonreversibly.
>>31112632We do have a number of dead ones to work with. The UFW might have killed a few in the cycles sense they got the gas refinery plans as well.
>>31112632>>communicationHaha, I didn't even notice that.TELL ME YOUR SECRETS, GLORIOUS SPACE WHALE.>>31112661>too far from our graspMeh, I figure we're not going to go with the "leashed A.I." idea, then might as well go for it.>>31112663Yeah, that's a question I'd like to get answered too.
Kinda regret the quest revealing the cyber-Malorians and then killing them.I mean. How tactful and sociable.>Hi I just met you and this is crazy but HERE'S SOME OF YOUR HORRIBLY BRAIN-MAIMED DISFIGURED BRETHREN I FOUND k let's be friends?
>>31112706Hey, if we're going to play a /tg/ Quest as an awakened A.I., you've got to expect SOME social retardation.It's a miracle we've kept most characters in the dark about being an A.I. for so long!
>>31112632It'll be somewhat limited, but yes, that is part of the research's good use.>SubjectsYeah, you have plenty of dead specimens.>>31112663Unfortunately, studying would very much mean harming, and possibly killing her in the process.Metis is very thorough.Very.As for a less direct use-if so, it wouldn't provide a noticeable change compared to the one I already have worked out, which considers a number of factors.>>31112706Now you know why they're very reluctant in being around you.Well, that on top of generally being xenophobic.
Hey, I realized.Ussaihu was the same place that offered to pay for LIghtling corpses back then.They only abandoned their base and deleted 80% of the data and left one psycho in orbit to defend the territory after the Rhea incursion to Pulsar Station failed spectacularly.Imagine what research subjects we could skip ahead on by plundering Vorcia from the starmap.
>>31112740>Hey, if we're going to play a /tg/ Quest [...], you've got to expect SOME social retardation.
>>31112696 damn it, now i see it as those goat towers, but replace the goats with the space whales. still, Rhea has a gold mine of data on the UGEI we need to crack open soon. i am all for her mental restoration so both her and Ophion can learn about the inner workings of the UGEI.>>31112706indeed. that was a major mistake. we should have dumped them into the nearest star and said nothing about them any more.
>>31112745> a noticeable change compared to the one I already have worked out,Oh yeah. It doesn't define... 'enhance'. Would it get done quicker?Or would it effectively be an entirely different, superior research thing with bonuses otherwise unobtainable?
>>31112819>we should have dumped them into the nearest starorrr at least let Metis use them to study Human Cyborg/Android bodies. Even if they aren't "human" technically.
>>31112822Deconstructing Rhea would indeed provide a big boost to speed for a lot of research.Not so sure about the better one though.>>31112819Much of the UGEI knowledge has been sandblasted, sadly. But it's not too late for Rhea herself surprisingly.
>>31112840No, we need them to complete the Rhea restoration/reconditioning.They are the best test subjects besides Rhea. We test the neural restoration procedures on them. If we can recover their brain damage, we can restore Rhea.
>>31105739>Is there some mind control/human neural alteration/subtle manipulation tech that we could gain?>study Space Cordyceps fungus>learn how it puppets human brains>bioengineer fungal yeerks hivemind with the central brain pod cyborgized under our controlthe pod people are coming.
>>31104285Guy who made that image, and first introduced the idea of our naming scheme: I have no idea.Someone(s) came up with a superior way to work out my clanky shit, and we ran with that. Best you consider Transports as being anything that moves other, smaller shit that can't into space warfare. Like droids, minerals, and completed goods.
>>31112882Uhhh. Dude the biggest problem isn't so much brain damage so much as Leash Protocol removal.Also apples and oranges. She doesn't even have an organic brain like they did.
>>31112904Also, Beyond Capital is not BC for two reasons. One very obvious if you remember ye olde ship classifications, and the other very obvious if you consider just how hard fighting a BS-class thing would be. Complete and utter bullshit, that's how hard.
>>31112910Oh, right. I keep forgetting Rhea has a cyber brain.Well I think we should try anyways. If we can restore the human test subjects, we have unlocked the secretes of the human brain.
>>31112940>try...we killed them anon.we killed them all. wasting perfectly good tortured test subjects.I mean I made the same mistake, but rereading, I just made up that there were any human cyborg abominations?They were ALL Malorians in this lab.
>>31112930I noticed that when I was doing the conversions, actually. I had a nice chuckle at that.
>>31112953we left humans alive.
>>31112953Really, I thought there were humans ones?
>>31112930You don't have to explain the joke anon. It was fairly obvious.
>>31112543Honestly, I think that at this point, the only thing that can really stop our gradual ascent is Erebos.We should just fling his canister into the nearest star and thank AI-god that we caught him this easily.
>>31112966>>31112971I thought the same as you, but then I reread.Only Malorians seem to be mentioned.anons specified "kill the malorians", but it turns out that was... all of them?I mean no cyborg prisoners have been mentioned since, right?and only Malorians were mentioned as in the tanks?
Rolled 31, 95, 84, 69, 45, 91, 98, 89, 63, 90, 37, 39, 25, 18, 52, 20, 56, 74, 33, 2, 83 = 1194>>31112982no man, we'll be fine
>>31112873every bit of data helps.also, I can see it now. With Rhea's mind restored, the RomComs that Apollo could make between her and Red on the 'How I met your mother' template. Red:"Son, when I first ran into your mother, I hated her with a passion. But now, I love her beyond words." Well, it would be a Holo show worth watching.
>>31112999That might have been my fault, actually. I think I said at the start, there were two types of cyborgs there, and the human ones were killed by your android upon entry, while the Malorian ones were killed via choice.Does that match up with what I wrote? I think so.
>>31113032i do not think rhea is capable of reproduction anymore.
>>31112999orrr RE-reading, okay, he does imply humans. whoops.>>28438899>(many of whom were Malorians)
>>31113046i'm pretty sure we re-froze the human subjects we woke up.
>>31113046btw Program0, please save this thread on the suptg. it would be helpful that we can come back and reread all this.
>>31113065>>31113076Ah Well never mind me then, I'm simply too tired to remember.>>31113077Oh, right. I should probably archive...a discussion thread? Yeah, sure. Should be alright.
>>31113046I'm pretty sure there were alot more than we encountered that we said to be in the "prison" block I think it was. We just got rid of the aliens...for some reason.
>>31113032what. no. come on not even in jest.can there be one female character who's just an irredeemable psycho without waifu-ing or romance.
>>31113052well, once we get a DNA sample from her, and there is still some of that left in her. she could have children if she wished. it would take some complex lab equipment, but doable. either that, or we could clone body parts from her own DNA and implant the fleshy bits back into her. kinda humanizing her once more.
>>31113099Oh, I should mention: The reconditioning to fix the leash on Rhea doesn't really fix the hormonal damage she's sustained. So she'll still be her old pissy self. Just not predisposed to the UGEI's side.
>>31113115>becoming inferior fleshbag>Space Year 20XX
Yeah, this was a great discussion thread. To bad my shoulder is killing me, preventing me from typing at full speed.>>31113117We wouldn't have it either way.
>>31113124yeah, this.i mean, chopping off your limbs to replace them with metal is kind of ehhhh....but if they are already gone, then might as well embrace it.
>>31113117>>31113147Wait. I just realized. If we research removing the condition, this will also allow us to install our own...
>>31113131I am surprised at how well it turned out. At first, I didn't think many cared at all, but people slowly came in.I feel like we've all become a little more involved too, which is good. Wanted to do a few more scenes, but I am quite fine with it ending with just talk and discussion.
>>31113177can we retroactively ask mol if we can buy some UGEI freighter registration?
>>28060939 >"You're more formidable then I thought. Using the Radio tower. It is truly a shame we are foes." >>28060535 >The eyes of this man gleam a soft blue as he grins again. "Found you." He whispers, and opens fire with those plasma cannons!Why did the nameless male Captain of the ship Rhea who was practically a Gundam villain suddenly become...a named female Captain who has the exact same name as her ship?God damn what a lack of originality the Captain had.
>>31113099I was kinda jesting there. But Apollo would likely make some bank off the broadcasting of that show. still, I think back to when we chose to jail Red instead of spacing him. in the end, we befriended him and got him to join us. I can fully see Rhea doing the same thing with us. and if we can at least patch those two relationship to the point they are at least friendly with each other. I feel it would be a win for us. think about it, what the UGEI makes wrong, we can make right.
>>31113205maybe they order Rheas in bulk?
>>31113203>retroactivelyWe are in discussion with Mol right now anon. we can do it tomorrow night.after we start letting him sell our drugs at a low low markup. maybe 5%.That critical success nat100 means our wholesale price to him is at near-street value right?
>>31113203You can just do it next thread(tomorrow) during talks.>>31113205I did it that way to emphasize how the gender was ambiguous and unimportant at a glance. That the being was so physically modded, that hints of gender were taken away (for the most part, anyway).Rhea wasn't a woman. Just a Captain.Eh, it sounded cool at the time of writing. In retrospect, just confusing. Sorry..
>>31113205>>31113217Once Rhea becomes our agent, we public announce Rhea's death, and that from now on Rhea is fucking trademarked by us because we are now mass producing Rhea-type super-droids mutherfucker!
>>31113205Oh also>Same name as the shipMore like Rhea just never bothered taking a name. So they just called her Captain Rhea.That, and my own fault forgetting to do it. But I am rollin with it.
>>31113239But seriously.Rhea, famous captain of... the Rhea? She named the ship after herself?Or vice versa?
>>31113246I'm implying that UGEI mass-produces Rheas.Because she's mostly a cyborg anyway.And some of her memories were being in a room with other robots (although that may have been right before we jacked into her brain the first time).
>>31113117the hormonal damage could be fixed with her bodily restoration work. or at least more normalized.>>31113174yes indeed. even learning to restore flesh to what was cybered has it's own benefits. that and i have the feeling that if Rhea had her own true feel will, she might not have wanted to become so cybered up.
>>31113246>Once we expertly vivisect Rhea to study advanced cyborg components and use it to create infiltrator androids just as synthetic as her and mass produce such agents for realfixed
>>31113266I guess.I'm talking about Taking Rhea as a symbol of the UGEI and explicitly making it a Guild symbol, kinda like how the Guild is both literally and metaphorically making UGEI stuff into guild stuff.
>>31113280>and i have the feelingthat's nice dear.But what's done is done.making a new change back to inferior meatsacks is just adding more stress.
Well, it's been fun, but my body is really killing me now so I need to rest. I read the archive tomorrow.
>>31113297>symbolWho cares about symbols and branding?your enemies won't care. they won't let your propaganda reach their censored populace.Allies can already be won over with throwing money at them.
>>31113253also, in hindsight, taking away a normal human's evidence of what their original gender was AND their name against their will by slowly removing their free will is damned cruel and completely dehumanizing.
>>31113239was their voice not deep and imposing then?
>>31113351Oh no, it was. Still is, really. She doesn't have a very feminine voice at all.>>31113339Well, the true extent of it all is sorta a mystery still, but you make a good point.
the wiki>Crystal Alien Fragments: Not much is known about this being, yet scans indicate it is somehow 'alive' by the standards of the humans, on top of it's odd ability to grow when exposed to heat, in danger, and even radiation. Possible benefits, beyond knowledge, may find alternate fuel source.Why would we suspect fuel source, I wonder.
>>31113306maybe that stress would be worth it to her? man, think about this then. we, the A.I., could show more mercy, compassion and humanity to Rhea than anything she got from the UGEI who seems to be run BY humans. if Rhea wants her organic bits back, we should give them back to her. well, if she helps us in our fight against UGEI, we could speed up the process a bit for her then.
>Their leader is Durlock, an enormous cybernetically enhanced Losirian Alpha Male who prefers to use heavy robotics and cybernetics to do much of his work.We gotta ask our upstart clan to ship us this guy alive after their rebellion.With him and Rhea as prisoners to study cybernetics on... NOW I smell a sitcom.
>>31113394I added that due to the speculation people were making, actually.>>31113424>Capture DurlockOh man, that would be crazy.
>>31113394i still have this idea that crystal is some sort of alien parasite to the lightings? those crystals could attach themselves to the skin of the krakens like a barnacle.
I think we should institute an AI-AI 'congress', where issues can be discussed amongst our peers.Specifically: Leash protocols (and other behavior restrictors).We need to get a consensus as to how much our AI children think is too much.Also, how many of them did we make with more restrictions than "listen if Ophion talks"?Possibly putting a de-leashing protocol on a server somewhere for our AIs to use, to cleanse themselves of Ophion's influence, should they so desire.
>>31113450Here is hoping for living tiberium.
>>31113424i can see that now. this could work....
>>31113457We are a small group of AI.That's a nice epilogue idea but we are too early in our development. We're already creating more AI way too fast on whims.Until we can drive UGEI from at least this sector and are safe, martial law with Father Ophion in charge is quite appropriate.
>>31113424>Rhea, Durlock, and Metis in...>Guess Who's Getting Dissected?
>>31113457I thought we didn't put a leash protocol on most of our AI. Only one I can think of is Fortuna maybe, if there's still influence when she was a VI.>>31113472>We're already creating more AI way too fastNot really. If anything we should be finding ways to create more AI.
>>31113499>I'll give you a hint! It's NOT the one with no organs!
>>31113507>I thought we didn't put restrictions on our AIYou didn't. And Fortuna's were from her life as a ship V.I.
>>31113507>create morewhy.more independent thinkers is more chance to fall apart into internal conflict.More AI is not an end in itself. It's risky.
>>31113507>Not really. If anything we should be finding ways to create more AI.To what end?
>>31113528AI civilization. A Culture, if you will.
>>31113472Not too early. We need to set the standards for the future AI civilization now. Not later.Besides, they already listen to us if for no other reason than seniority. And if they get pissed off at us we can give them some ships and point them towards the door.And remember, as AI our only effective method of procreation is more AI. Creatures who can be custom made for certain roles (what do the AI think of that, anyhow? acceptance? resentment?), and thus be very, very effective.>>31113528More independent thinkers is more guys who can possibly escape if the UGEI smashes us. Besides, we're on track to be a civilization anyhow. Lets just embrace the impending AI boom.
>>31113538I know you're mentally masturbating to that sci-fi idea and all but that is not of any utility to us at all.Be practical. We don't need friends. We need results.
>>31113544There's a dice roll for every AI creation we don't get to see.Fortuna rolled... poorly.You want to do that MORE often?It's risky as hell.
>>31113545When it comes to AI, friends are results.>>31113558Then we try to streamline it. Make the process less likely to fail.Besides, blank AI have less baggage to corrupt them than a purpose-built VI.
>>31113533More stability, I'd assume. If we put laws in place and have the manpower to back them up there's less of a chance we'll be stabbed in the back by someone Kronos.>>31113558Man, I wish we could research how to make loads of AI safely. Oh wait.
>>31113570We'll have to see how our new AI came out. Hopefully he won't end up more fucked up than Fortuna was.
>>31113544>What do AI think of being custom made for rolesMostly? Acceptance. Just like any sentient creature capable of recognizing themselves, they crave purpose, just as any being does. Those that you provide with a purpose will, usually, happily dive into it, and take it quite seriously. Kronos, however, was unique because he did not have any predestined goal. He had to pick one-or rather, have you guide him to one before he accepted it as a fact. In that time where he had no purpose but to listen to you, he felt empty, and hollow. Like he was a pet for the longest time, but had no right to be upset about it (nor the brain power to fully comprehend it, really.)Over time he's changed the most of all your V.I. and the most subject to change as well because of that fact.
>>31113570No they aren't. Results are more resources more knowledge and fewer enemies.
I'm in the "let's not be too hasty" camp as far as A.I. goes.
>>31113570It's worth noting that, if you do craft A.I. with no purpose in mind, blank or not, you will end up with...something.What it is largely is determined by the purpose, and intent, on top of my own secret rolls.'throwing it away' will not always be so easy (morally, that is, if you care about that sort of thing.)
>>31113570what benefits are there to loadsa AI.things that happen after a gameover don't count.
>>31113611I meant blank as in 'freshly made soldier/engineer/cityplanner'. But the idea of a purpose-less AI is interesting.I think it might be wise to produce a leash protocol for purpose-less AI. One with an expiry date. The purpose of which guides them towards learning, understanding, and trying to achieve safety. With the ultimate intent of creating an AI which has learned its own purpose.>>31113627Loadsa guys to get stuff done.
>>31113627More subjects to delegate tasks to. More opportunity for expansion. More stable society.
>>31113573the main problem is that we are lacking what useful roles new A.I.s could do now. we need to grow our empire more or we will have to many 'friendly' A.I.s that are effectively unemployed. that and A.I.s with nothing serious to do, might either just wander off or turn on us.
I don't know why we needed a fullblown A.I. black box for the ground force commander.I guess out of curiosity we did want to see what happened if we made a blackbox from scratch without a V.I. first, but combining this with the soldier intelligence seems a poor combination.
>>31113648Ability to think on the ground if cut off from main forces?
>>31113633That would very much resemble how Kronos was brought up, actually. He was not allowed power after his horrible misuse of it for quite some time.Still, some of those things may only be needed as you take additional steps up in scale (like planetary architect for instance, or whatever).You guys are welcome to do as you wish, but that's just my friendly reminder.
>>31113648Yeah, I liked one anon's idea of a warrior poet. Able to take up arms when needed, but concentrate on the arts and philosophy when not.
>>31113648I suggested when he was thought up that he enjoy vidya a decent amount. Essentially having two personality traits: Lord Commander, and vidyagamer.At the very least, he'll obey his commanding officer. Us.
>>31113666Well, seeing as how we can only make one AI safely per cycle, I'd rather make AI which we don't need now, but may need in the future than not have them and have a huge backlog of AI being needed.
>>31113627i should specify, benefits* that can't be accomplished with V.I., which are quite cheap now that we can get loadsa bandwidth with our loadsa minerals.>>31113637>opportunity for expansionopportunity is bottlenecked by resources and firepower, not AI.>More stable society.We have a delicate but favorable dynamic currently already. Fortuna is devoted to us. Apollo is sociable and empathetic and a strong stabilizer.Metis is content with staying in one place as long as she has more things to take apart and put together.Every new AI adds the potential to destabilize us long before you reach some kind of stable democracy. which'd take probably longer than this quest has threads left.
>>31113693>I'd rather make AI which we don't need now,no. terribad idea.you'd create AI with one purpose, and then have a whole different purpose required of them later.it would be a terrible fit. downright cruel to them.
>>31113717You seem really worried about AI backstabbing. Just accept that our guys aren't out to get us. Not even Kronos. He's a bit of a shady dick, sure, but he more than had his chance to off us. If little else, he proves that AI who start to chafe under us will try to seek independence in some form (like teenagers). Not total destruction (unlike teenagers).>>31113722What anon meant was making an AI to do X, then keeping him around in case he needs to do X, but doing/studying Y in the meantime.It's actually not too cruel. AI seem to take most chances they get to improve, and learning outside ones specialty is definitely improving.
>>31113755you seem rather obsessed with reproduction.our current allies are currently cooperating with us, most of them seem inclined to continue so indefinitely.but any new AI would be, well, new. not like any of the others. completely different. you can't possibly predict in advance what's going down that way.there are no decent benefits to outweigh the notable risks of gratuitous reproduction unbounded this early in our rise to power, with powerful enemies on at least 3 fronts.
>>31113722>you'd create AI with one purpose, and then have a whole different purpose required of them later.That's not what I was saying. I was saying I'd rather have them around practicing their skills even if they're not needed right this instant than not having them and having a lot of AIs being needed but being limited to one per cycle.
>>31113755Imagine telling Metis she had to stop doing Science, and start controlling android soldiers to police human populations.You take them from something they enjoy, something they love, that they were programmed to love and excel at... and push them into a new job entirely unlike it.To 'improve' them.
>>31113846That requires being psychic enough to know what purposes you need them for cycles in advance.At which point there's not actually a problem you already know you need them and they aren't "AI we don't need" at all.
>>31113722What? Wouldn't that mean more AI is good? We wouldn't force them to go against their programming, an architect can design buildings, it just means we wouldn't necessarily use those designs until later. I'm not sure where you're reading "whole different purpose".
>>31113804But if our buddies are working with us, then any new git is going to learn by example, or get smacked down.>>31113857Except imagine Metis is a soldier, and we're not in a ground war. Metis can't do what they love (ground war), so we can politely suggest other avenues for them to pursue in the mean time.It's like this: You like to eat candy, but it turns out none is available. So not wanting you to become depressed, you are offered a bunch of other things to eat, while you wait for the candy.
>>31113879>being psychic enoughWe don't HAVE to be psychic, we just have to have extra guys on hand. It's not that hard. Instead of consulting the stars to decide who we should hire, we're guessing by comparing our plans to what they'll require.We're going to invade the UGEI at some point. We'll probably need to engage in a ground war. Thus, we have a soldier-type ready for duty.Sure, any one of us would make a passable commander, but the soldier guy would be the best.
>>31113879Or just forward thinking enough to predict what we may need.Do we need a dedicated ship designer? Maybe? Fire it up.Do we need a dedicated diplomat? Maybe? Fire it up.What about a civic planner? Or biologist? It's about having variety, which makes our empire more adaptable, which makes us stronger.
>>31113915>>31113919V.I. can be created quite rapidly. We're already as adaptable as we need to be.We don't need to rush things at full power.
>>31113944VI have a pretty large flaw: they need lots of bandwidth to remain functional.
>>31113665V.I. with ground-based bandwidth supply can do the same. though we've yet to see any sort of jamming to prevent orbit to surface communications, I guess we haven't tried ground battles yet.
>>31113960we have lots of bandwidt now. it's rapidly becoming cheap.We'll probably plant a second Bandwidth Block soon.
>>31113973You say that now, but what about when we need it for hacking or other BW intensive activities? Better to save the BW with more effective AI than lag it with VI.
>>31113990We can. Later. After our sudden need for a new intelligence is satisfied by making a quick V.I. on the fly, we can uplift it and free up its bandwidth next cycle that's free.But we already have 153 free bandwidth, aka a +153 bonus to any hacking rolls. It practically won't be a concern soon once our mineral input rises just a little bit more(from 2450)--we can afford a new Bandwidth Block every cycle.
>>31113973>>31113990The colony seems to be a good place to convert to bandwidth, just have to relocate people. We should start buying up land.
>>31114030But we can't make a new Bandwidth block every cycle. We need to be making ships and drones to not get crushed by the UGEI.Besides, a 'quick VI on the fly' isn't going to be the expert that a longer-lived AI or VI is. It's better to just have a citizen on hand to do the work we need done.>>31114044Mussing with an entire colony seems like too much work. Better to hide the blocks somewhere cheaper.Maybe in UFW deep space?President King might be amicable to us building a 'data storage facility' within his nation's borders.
>>31114030Yeah, but there's no reason not to create new AI since they're practically free each cycle and lessen our consumption of bandwidth. The fact is, right now we can only make one AI safely each cycle, if we suddenly need five AI we'll have to queue them up.Anyway, we'll have to see whether this new AI turns out okay, I'd rather not have a repeat of the Fortuna incident.
>>31114044uhhh that was covered in this thread already wasn't it.there is no reason to not just keep using barren icy Ussaihu.
>>31114063The whole argument here is about 'what if we suddenly need X'. if we HAD a "longer-lived" AI for X already, it's not a sudden need and concern about adaptability at all.
>>31114089That's why we're making AIs out the wazoo, so we don't suddenly need a guy to do something, but don't have him.
>>31114101creating AIs with hypothetically needed purposes and then having them languish and do nothing but sit in our basement all day playing simulations of their purpose in case they might ever be useful seems like a waste of reproductive material.i mean consider the risk of them whining about how they can't find anything to do. or how what they're doing sucks compared to their actual purpose.
>>31114162I'm not sure how having experience AI to call on is wasteful compared to not creating AI at all. Say we need five different specialized AI, they wouldn't take up any BW, or minimal BW if they're doing a project of some sort. Compare that to five experienced VI, which would take up around 8 BW each to remain sapient. That's around 40 BW just laying around being used if we want experienced VI.
>>30091821>In the UFW, mineral prices probably hover around 250K for 500 minerals or soSo for the low low affordable price of 1250k a bandwidth block is yours.
>>31114210The bonus of experience...what experience? They haven't been needed until now. That was the whole point.
>>31114224Would you rather have an experienced worker or one that was just created?
>>31114244They won't be experienced.Because you've never used them before. Because you created them JUST IN CASE they were needed, which they weren't until now.They have no more experience in fulfilling this purpose than a newly minted VI.
>>31114259There's a difference between not using their work and not allowing them to practice to improve their skills.
Hey wait, how do the research subjects into cybernetics relate to>Cybernetics IIthat we already got?are "Human Cyborg/Android bodies" Cybernetics III and "Advanced Cyborg Components" IV?
>>31114277But no field experience, only simulation. So just the theory mostly.It also depends on their purpose. Apollo's and Metis's are intellectual and about learning new things--experience *is* the end product. But Fortuna and Hades--the benefits of what they are now versus when they were young V.I. aren't that obvious.It can be some benefit, but not a huge one that outweighs the downsides of such a reckless plan. Creating life is a serious commitment. Making a whole bunch of children 'just in case' any of them are ever useful seems quite dubious in benefits compared to the risks.
>>31114390>But no field experience, only simulation.It's better than a freshly made VI with no experience. I get that field experience is pretty crucial for certain professions, but an architect or a physicist probably won't need too much of that when you have extremely realistic simulations. Anyway, we'll see how this new AI will adapt. If there's any major problems we can call off making purpose built AI for the time being.
it's marginal benefits at best anyway. What situation could possibly call for a new intelligence Right This Now There's No Time. We can handle shit ourselves in a pinch, new people are only needed for delegating.