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I will join discussion on possible retcons/edits/alterations/etc after I post my normal beginning thing and intro composition.

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Suptg Archive:

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?searchall=Shadow+Quest+
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Archive compiled with story posts and pictures for an easier read, as well as ability and metadata tables:(big thanks to contributors, especially Sorry!):

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/akcvpyo893vvae6/ieUkT-2X3j
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Twitter (quest times, cancellations, updates):

https://twitter.com/ShadowMaster_tg
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Theme music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLTQ5PlEWko
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Notes on Rolls and Voting:

When I request rolls, each set of three rolls counts for one action. For example, a two-step plan would take the first 6 linked rolls. A particularly bad failure can interrupt a string of actions.

When rolling 1d100, I will consider criticals within the first ten linked rolls. Only criticals that occur in the first three rolls will be counted as "supercrits". This is still the case even if you'd have plan long enough to require more than ten rolls.

When rolling 1d20, the rules are the same, but I only consider criticals for the first five rolls, rather than ten. Criticals in the first three are still "supercrits".

When a plot choice results in extensive debate, I'll try to weed out the most popular trains of thought, and then call a vote on them. When voting, please respond with only a link back to the post and the number corresponding to your opinion. Other votes are discounted, including those with dice rolls or extra spaces.

Finally, note that this is not a democracy; it is a benevolent dictatorship.
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Recent Events Summary:

Shit hit the fan.

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Ability Tree

GREEN abilities have been unlocked and learned.

BLUE abilties are unlocked, but are not yet purchased.

RED abilities are revealed, but locked due to prerequisites.

UNDERLINED abilities are active-use, as opposed to passive. Not all active abilities require mana.

All Revealed Ability Descriptions:

http://pastebin.com/ccai5dvn

Books the Main Character has read:

http://pastebin.com/dAXR00gP

Character Sheet including learned abilities and other important information:

http://pastebin.com/6h1bkpKv

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Ability update:

>Eclipse - Forcibly assert the power of darkness to eclipse the sun itself for 2-5 turns, covering a miles-wide area centered on the user. Negates Shadow resistance of all enemies, doubles Shadow magic power, and halves the mana cost of Shadow Magic spells while active. Costs 25 mana, or half current mana, whichever is greater. Only useable once per day.
>>
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Why don't we just throw the Nyxystix into the Sigil?
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Current Statistics:

HP: 81/81
Mana: 76/76
EXP: 51

Shards of Order and Chaos:

(Retribution) - Resonant
(Maker) - Resonant
(Silence) - Resonant
(Peace) - Resonant
(Breeze) - Resonant
(Hammer) - Resonant
(Ardor) - Resonant
{Resolve} - Resonant
{Humanity} - Resonant

--Summoned--

Wisp - 1 mana to order

--Automatons--

Vita (Shade)

--Equipment--

Utility belt with purse

--Inventory--

Aurora Water Gem (pocket)
Shade (pocket)

--Teleport Anchor--

Dobshire - Hemmelus's Tower, First Floor

--Current Location--

Dobshire

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Known Mana Pools:

Jacob's Field - entrance to Hecate's tomb - Spirit
Jacob's Field - Hecate's Chamber - Spirit
Palthair Mines - Magnock's Lair - Spirit
Archon - Spirit District - Spirit
Archon - Shadow District - Shadow
Archon - Earth District - Earth
Archon - Water Distric - Water
Haven - Shadow
Abbotsford - Shadow
Aurora - Water
Va'ad - South Generator - Earth
Va'ad - North Generator - Earth
Arland - Dryfeld - Water
>>
>My body is ready.

Mine isn't.
>>
Eclipse Party Go!
>>
>>30597736
>>Eclipse - Forcibly assert the power of darkness to eclipse the sun itself for 2-5 turns, covering a miles-wide area centered on the user. Negates Shadow resistance of all enemies, doubles Shadow magic power, and halves the mana cost of Shadow Magic spells while active. Costs 25 mana, or half current mana, whichever is greater. Only useable once per day.
That looks almost exactly the same.
>>
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I kinda screwed up last time, and I apologize, less so for that and more for the way I treated people afterward. I will amend my behavior.

If you want to leave it at that, cool. I screencapped the long version of my apology, pic related.

>Here comes the morning after...
>>
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Time to rev up those happenings, war with the angels is inevitable.
>>
>>30597736
>>Eclipse - Forcibly assert the power of darkness to eclipse the sun itself for 2-5 turns, covering a miles-wide area centered on the user. Negates Shadow resistance of all enemies, doubles Shadow magic power, and halves the mana cost of Shadow Magic spells while active. Costs 25 mana, or half current mana, whichever is greater. Only useable once per day.
Welp time to buy eclipse.
>>
I said it in the /qtg/ I'll say it here.
I think just a reskinning of the fight would be the best option, replace the Avatar with something else to fight, like a pair of powerful light elementals
>>
>>30597803

"Enemies" are specified on the receiving end of resistance loss and your shadow magic abilities are also half-cost while it's active.
>>
>>30597803
I take that back. I didn't see the halved mana cost.
>>
>>30597803
It halves the cost for all shadow magic abilities. That is stronk as fuck.
>>
>>30597736
Ah. Well Eclipse has been addressed - which is the better part of this commentary, but I figure I'll submit it to you regardless.
http://pastebin.com/M6kDDRAd
>>
Your eyes flutter open.

"Ah, there you are."

"...Hemmelus? What - "

You bolt upright. You're sitting in a bed - some room still in the castle. Hemmelus is in a wooden chair a few feet away. A few books and papers are on a desk next to him. He holds a quill in his hand. His long grey hair droops down around his wrinkled face.

"I thought you'd be waking up in a few minutes," he said. "I was starting to doubt my senses for a moment, there. What happened in...well, in wherever you went?"

"I'll tell you later," you say. "They still have Sir Flint, we've got to keep looking! Is Abigail alright, and Ila? How long have I been sleeping?

"John, one thing at a time. Abigail and Ila got back two hours after you first did, they're both fine. They were both in here until a little while ago. I forced them to get some sleep so we could talk in private."

"I want to explain, but right now we have to move!"

"Relax for a moment and get your head on straight."

"Relax?!" You throw your hands up in the air. "They're going to kill him! I've already wasted enough time sleeping!" His face sits in a calm, mildly amused expression. "Aren't you worried?! Is anyone looking for him?!"

"Well, I was terribly worried for him for a little while after you came back," he says. "But I've settled down a bit."

"We have to find him!"

"Well, yes."

>con't
>>
>>30597855
i was just about to post that.
>>
>>30597836
>"Enemies" are specified on the receiving end of resistance loss
Oh damn. So we can actually use it against the demon lords now?

WANT WANT WANT.

I swear it said enemies before but it just hit everyone that wasn't the caster.
>>
You stare at him in exasperation. "Then what..."

"You've been sleeping for about 10 hours," Hemmelus says. "It's 2 in the morning. They haven't used Donovan for the spell yet. We'd know if they did - no way to hide Hyperion's return from any mage in Venia. Or, alternatively, the entire world crumbling into the Nether." Hemmelus folds his arms. "Now, if I were them, I'd have already done the dirty deed. But they haven't. Which means that they're still missing something."

You process that for a moment. "But...we still don't know how much longer we have. It could be any second."

"It won't be."

"I don't have time for this!" You throw back the blankets and swing out of the bed. "Where's Fang?"

Hemmelus gives you a sharp frown. "Control yourself, sit down, and listen for a moment!"

"...alright. I'm sorry. I'm just..."

"Your concern is understandable, but the rash acts of worried minds are not going to solve this problem."

"Ok," you say. You slowly sit one the bed. "What have you learned?"

"Well, I wasn't sitting up here reading for nothing," he says. "Before you barged in with Arcturis and Adavan, I was doing some research. I figured that investigating that sigil more thoroughly might help us in the immediate future. I'm rather glad I did, because it turns out I was right." Hemmelus lifts one of the sheets of partchment and offers it to you. You take it. The ink sketch is immediately recognizable - it's an outline of the sigil. "Obviously, I don't remember all the finer points, but that's the general framework of the thing," he says.

"Right. What did you find?"

>con't
>>
>>30597828
That leave the mole unaddressed. I'd rather not start a witch hunt on top of all the other shit we have to do.
>>
with that Eclipse upgrade I recommend getting Tree Gift and giving the Shadow magic tree to both Ila and Abigail.
>>
>>30597869
If this is true then FUUUUUUUUCCCCCKKKK YYYYEEEESSSSS
>>
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Last thread in a nutshell
>>
"A few things didn't make sense to me," he says. "First of all, this is a summoning sigil - THE summoning sigil. But see those three rings in the center?" You nod. "Those shouldn't be there. Those are barriers stopping power from emerging from the Nether. But the whole point of a summoning sigil is to gather power from the Nether and force it to take form. The hexagon is the proper platform, but the spell seems to contradict its own purpose."

"Now, second," he continues, "even with all that nonsense about draining magical power over decades and finally taking the life of the mage in question, that's just not enough power to do what they want to accomplish. There isn't enough raw energy in this thing to get Hyperion up here, especially with these rings in the way. It would sputter out fighting against itself. It's nuanced, yes, but poorly designed and half-formed. Seems like something an overly-creative novice would cook up."

"Then what's the point?"

"The point," Hemmelus says, "is that they need something else. The summoning of the Pentaverate."

"...what?"

Hemmelus gestures to the drawing. "Look again. Notice the four points. At first, I thought they were stabilizating structures - channels to prevent elements of opposite polarity from interfereing. But then I realized that's not all. They're channels for energy, from four additional sources. Four demon lords."

"Elements," you whisper. You stand from the bed, clutching the drawing. "This means...that Vellik was right. Sandalphon is working with Kan-Abar! He's working with the demon lords!"

"I don't want to jump to conclusions," Hemmelus says. "Obviously, when Abigail and Ila returned, there was quite a commotion. The meeting scheduled for tonight was postponed until tomorrow due to the castle being half-destroyed."

"What happened?"

>con't
>>
>>30597855
I dislike the the idea of using the shards to power our abilities
>>
>>30597886
Abby gets Eartth for Heartstone Titan and Gravity magic.
>>
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"Well, they insisted that angels had attacked Haven, and that they'd drove them off," he says. "Sandalphon denied knowledge of those events and to giving orders of any such effect."

"Obviously he was lying."

"He wasn't," Hemmelus says. "The Highest might bend the truth often, but he rarely breaks it outright. He knows I'd sense that immediately. And he wasn't lying."

"Then..." You think back. The Avatar of Chaos took on Lucifer's form. Was it possible it was manipulating the angels from the inside?

"Tensions were high," Hemmelus says, "but then, a report came in that one of his airships was destroyed and other limping away from a battle with a third, unidentified airship. That forced Ila and Auriel to publicly reveal that Haven did in fact have an airship fitting that description, as a means of proving that the angels had acted in open hostility.

"It was then," Hemmelus says, "that Sandalphon was most surprised - and he let something slip. I conferred with the Archmage, and we both agree that at that moment, Sandalphon seemed to realize something. He backed off immediately, and said he'd investigate what had happened. Later, he came back and told us that their sensors had detected an unknown airship of the Shadow element that had no recognizable callsign close to Arland's border, but had attacked only in self-defense. So then the debate became about who was the aggressor, and at that point, it was their word against his, which isn't much to go on."

"And the result?"

>con't
>>
Do we still have both an airship and one of the highest in our pocket?

Might want to do something about those.
>>
"Sandalphon went for the high ground, stating that the unfortunate confrontation wouldn't have happened in the first place had Haven been more forthright with its forces, and the positioning of its airship. Not really conclusive, but Auriel didn't have a retort. They had been keeping it secret, after all."

"Did the angels storm off in a huff?"

"Oh no," Hemmelus says. "He seems more determined than ever to make this alliance work. But he's been absent since that argument. Taking care of whatever he realized was happening behind the scenes. Dealing with insubordination, perhaps?"

The Avatar had said something to that effect - that they were using each other. Maybe Sandalphon realized that the Avatar had made a move without his knowledge, in the guise of Lucifer? And if they're not totally in synch, that means they aren't friends...but they have a common goal. At the moment.

But why would the Avatar want to summon Hyperion?

Or is the Avatar betting that the act will destabilize the core, as Hemmelus and Yi Fang seem to believe?

"And now," Hemmelus says, "you have an expression that looks exactly like the one he had. What happened to you, John?"

"Wait a minute," you say. "You said they need 4 demon lords. They have them, don't they? What's stopping them from getting together right now?"

"I have an inkling," Hemmelus says. He rubs his beard between his fingers. "But knowing what you know would probably help me put it all together."

You're quiet for a long moment. So much is at stake. "...Hemmelus, you've been nothing but accepting and helpful. But I need to know I can trust you."

Hemmelus smiles. "Do you know much about the Black Lady?"

"I guess. More than most people. But she asked for my confidence in the few details she did share."

>con't
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WAR WITH ANGELS ITS HAPPENING TIME TO START CONSUMING DYNAMOS AND POCKETING AIRSHIPS
>>
"Remember how I said she wasn't looking for war? That I was sure of it?" You nod to him. "You seemed to think that was just me being old and wise, but it's actually because we're very good friends. You see, I've known Melody for quite a while."

The bed creaks under you as you do a double-take. "...you know she's Melody?!"

"Oh yes. A young cryptkeeper from Archon, talented enough to mingle with Yi Fang. That was a while ago, though."

"...a cryptkeeper?"

"You've seen the skeletons that maintain Archon?"

You think back to your time in the city. Undead seemed to do a lot of maintanence and cleaning. "Yes. I explored the catacombs, once."

"The cryptkeepers are the summoners that maintain the spirits within the undead servants," he explains. "They live at the bottom of the city, and it is in turn quite a menial form of magical labor. They are one of the lowest caste of mages. But every once in a while, one of the talented ones lands a spot in the Scholomance. Archon is nothing if not practical. It never squanders potential. Couldn't afford to."

"How did she meet you?"

"She met me after her trip to Xile," he says. "Forgive me for acting as if I believed you were the first to ever go there, but I had a brief conversation with her while you were aslumber, and she told me you were 'in the know', so to speak."

"Then...that would be right after she became a vampire."

"That's right," Hemmelus says. "I was quite young then, though I'd earned my share of fame giving Yi Fang a run for his money on the battlefield. That, and I was the only person who could wield all four Greater Elements in living memory. She snuck into Arland and threw herself on my doorstep, hoping to find a cure for her curse."

You frown for a moment. "...you're older than I realized."

"Reasoned out how to slow my aging, a bit. Enough to earn a few decades extra."

>con't
>>
"So...what happened?"

"At the time, you might say I was more...prejudiced, against the lesser elements. I'd just fought a war with Archon, alongside the Ring City. You absorb the attitudes of the people you work with. And I was a bit hotheaded, actually. I enjoyed the fight, as uncouth as it might sound. But she fascinated me. I'd never really interacted with a mage on the other side before, and, well, when a beautiful woman begs your assistance..." He chuckles. "I guess it all had a mysterious sort of allure. So I listened to her story, and we made a trade. I'd help her research her condition, and she'd let me study the Staff of Winds.

"I kept her prescence a secret, as she was a Shadow Mage. That was back when the Ring City was executing them, not collecting them. But after two years time, I was forced to admit that I had reached a dead-end. Vampirism was not meant to be reversible - it changed the fundamental nature of the soul. Old wives tales would have you believe that they feed on blood, but that isn't strictly true. Vampires directly feed on soul energy. While this means that they never run out, assuming they have normal people around to snack on, they can no longer produce any of their own energy."

"And then she went north? After you realized you couldn't do anything?"

Hemmelus nods. "...I asked her to stay, actually. She said that she couldn't bear to live in a city, or in civilized lands, where her life was at risk and she'd constantly be tempted to feed. She had learned to control her urges, to an extent, but crowded places gave her a lot of trouble. And, on top of that, she knew how I had begun to...well. Her heart was occupied, I think. Or rather...still healing. And so she left."

"...I see."

>con't
>>
"She didn't tell me where she went," he says, "but then the Shadow War came, and I found that we were suddenly on opposite sides of the battlefield. When she clashed with Sandalphon, they created the rift in the barrier - the Lady's Finger. I knew her magic, from living with her, and I know Light, from using it myself. I designed the patch that they placed over the core of the world. And then...well, even Sandalphon had enough fighting after that. For a while, at least."

"...wow." You sit back on the bed slightly. Here is a man that has personally been involved in the major events of recent history. Hemmelus seems humble, but he really is one of the most powerful mages in the world. "I...actually, thank you for sharing that with me. But..."

"Why bother?" he says. "Well, you said you needed a reason to trust me. So now that I've been honest with you, why don't you be honest with me?"

>Tell Hemmelus what happened after you went through the portal
>Tell Hemmelus the full truth, including you trials and tribulations
>some other strategy

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SO.

What now, people? We could continue with this a bit, and you can see what I have planned a bit further...I'd still be open to any sort of retconning. Or we can get right into it immediately. The choice is entirely yours.
>>
>>30597946
Yeah, we should probably take that out as soon as we can.
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>>30598005
>Tell Hemmelus the full truth, including you trials and tribulations
>>30598005
>>
>>30598005
>>Tell Hemmelus the full truth, including you trials and tribulations
>>
>>30598005
well, did the portal we opened actually lead to that cave or somewhere else?
>>
>>30598005
>Tell Hemmelus the full truth, including you trials and tribulations
>>
>>30598005
I wanted to dump the Avatar replace it with something else but you've written that in as reason to trust SandyThongs.
So.
Dunno.
>>
>>30598049

It led to the cave. I didn't change its destination, just what was waiting for you on the other end.
>>
>>30598005
>>Tell Hemmelus the full truth, including you trials and tribulations
>>
>>30598005
It sound like we have time, and it sounds like Sandals may even listen to reason.

I'm feeling better about the situation thanks to this info but I feel the Avatar/Mole thing is a bit iffy. A retcon to make it more about triangulating the Shel'Kath would be better.
>>
>>30598005
I don't know, for starters is Jophiel completely comatose by now? Because that ain't cool.

And the Avatar of Chaos in general STILL seems like Aizen levels of bullshit.
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>>30598005
Fuck working Sandals the kidnapping fuck, we should start sabotaging his airships now
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>>30598005
>Tell Hemmelus the full truth, including you trials and tribulations

Why the hell not. I'm quite frankly sick of the cloak and dagger.
>>
>>30598005
>Tell Hemmelus what happened after you went through the portal

As far as EXP is concerned I would say grab whatever gets us closer to getting Pure Darkness.
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>>30597923

Sandalthong genuinely wants to make the Alliance work and didn't try to backstab us?

Well that was a surprise.
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>>30598069
i'm fine with it as is.
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>>30598005
>Tell Hemmelus the full truth, including you trials and tribulations
Just get it out of the way. Hemmelus is a cool dude.
I move for retconning the mole.
>>
>>30598079
>I don't know, for starters is Jophiel completely comatose by now? Because that ain't cool.

You left her without pocketing her if I remember correctly.
>>
>>30598078
Yeah that works a lot better than having Haven/the Nemesis be compromised, because right now a bunch of players consider them useless.
>>
>>30598005
I just want the mole thing out. Change the airship to more about being found by traingulation or something.
>>
>>30598005
>Tell Hemmelus the full truth, including you trials and tribulations

As for retcons, I don't think they will be needed. The Avatar was a big mess, but it seems that you're straightening it out well enough with what you've written.

ON TO THE XP DEBATES
>>
>>30598094
We're getting Eclipse
>>
>>30598079
Right, she's probably a vegetable by now. Oops.

Well, if she's completely catatonic, might as well eat her.
>>
>>30598079
Pff

Fuck Jophiel. I was actually sort of hoping everyone would forget about her, and then in twenty threads time, somebody would ask 'Say, where the hell is Jophiel?', and Shadow would suddenly realise that she's still in the pocket.
>>
>>30598112
You remember incorrectly. We re-pocketed her right before going through the portal.
>>
Ok, I predicted that people would probably want to hear the rest of this conversation before making a decision, and as a result I wrote a whole bunch more. Since that's the case, more narrative heading your way.

It includes some things involving the mole, tying it into what happened, and then wrapping it up so you don't have to worry about it.

So, let's take stock again after this.
>>
>>30598005
>Tell Hemmelus the full truth, including you trials and tribulations
>>
>>30598005
>>Tell Hemmelus the full truth, including you trials and tribulations
sick of all these lies
>>
>>30598112
I'm not sure but let's just say we did.
>>
>>30597923
>Later, he came back and told us that their sensors had detected an unknown airship of the Shadow element that had no recognizable callsign close to Arland's border, but had attacked only in self-defense. So then the debate became about who was the aggressor, and at that point, it was their word against his, which isn't much to go on.
We COULD prove it wasn't us that initiated things, but that'd require us to reveal that our airship is completely unarmed.

Probably better to let the stalemate stand rather than letting that information out.

>>30597959
>>30597983
>>30598005
And Hemmelus is still a pretty cool dude.

>>30598079
It's supposed to take about 12 hours of exposure before it reaches the 'potential irreversible damage' threshold, so we've still got a little bit of time.

Would be a good idea to get her out of there at some point in the near future, though.

>>30598112
Nope, we definitely pocketed her. There was a discussion about whether to do so, leave her in Hemmelus' lab, or consume her, with Pocket being both the more moderate and safer choice for the short-term, so you more or less decreed that we should just Pocket her so that we could move things forward.
>>
>>30598069
Thats iffy
>>
>>30598112
Really? Could have sworn we did. Or if we didn't, we should have.
>>
>>30598115
How about if the AoC is capable of Scrying.
>>
>>30598005
I don't want to work with the angels, five minutes into peace talks he attacks our airship, kills our mages, and has taken Flint hostage.

we should be conquering the Ring City now
>>
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>>30598141

Ho sheeeeeet

Well I guess that one will be good for a little hilarity!
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>>30598144
I'm watching how you play this out very, very carefully shadow master. Very carefully.
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>>30598112
No. She's in the pocket. Can we ley her out now?
>>
>>30598144
Sounds good, SM.
>>
>>30598199
After the conversation
>>
>>30598188
She was the main reason people were pissed about Shadow passing out.

Personally, I find the situation to be pure hahahas.
>>
>>30598216
Agreed
>>
>>30598188
No, it's good for you being an asshat who hasn't learned anything.
>>
>>30598188
No offense, but if she's comatose from this after the entire argument over whether to leave her behind for the sake of safety, only for you to explain that we'd be fine pocketing her in the short-term because it takes half a day for things to get bad.

...only for the reassurance to be irrelevant because of us arbitrarily blacking out for exactly the length of time required for her to be irreparably damaged, THAT'S probably going to be the most irritating part of this whole ordeal.
>>
You tell him. It takes you a good hour to summarize it all. You hear the regular chime of a clock marking the half-hour of 3:30am in the next room.

"...I've been around in my time, John," Hemmelus says, "so when I say you've been through a lot, lately, that's saying something."

"Yeah."

"Not to mention you're the now-regenerating Guardian of the Void himself. That does, however, explain quite a few things..." He furrows his brow. "My word. Abigail knows all this, too, yes?"

"It would be hard for her not to. She knows everything...aside from Melody's secret."

"Good," he says. "Because it would be quite a damn thing if she was in love with the Lord of Darkness and didn't even know it!"

"You think so?"

Hemmelus raises an eyebrow. "I might be old, John, but please, don't patronize me."

"No, no, I just...well, honestly, it's nice to hear it from an outside source. I guess...things have been so hurried, so rushed. I only half-understand my own feelings. I wish we had more time."

"Trauma brings people together," he says. "When all else fails, we hold our dear ones tighter."

"Do you have any family, Hemmelus?"

"Well, I did. Outlived them. A few romantic trists over the years, but nothing really stuck. I'm married to my scholarly pursuits."

You get the distinct feeling he's glossing over quite a few details, but then again, his personal life isn't reall your business. "I see."

"So," he says, "feel a bit better, now?"

"...a little," you admit. "But what do you make of it? The self-proclaimed Avatar of Chaos?"

>con't
>>
>>30597923
>but then, a report came in that one of his airships was destroyed
We should say as part of our answer to Hemmelus about the truth and whatnot that "That airship wasn't destroyed. I have it in my pocket." just to see how weirded out he gets about the lie detector not pinging.
>>
>>30598216
Just to get this out of the way while we wait on SM's narrative dump:

>1: Eat her, free XP and she's going to be fucked in the head for a good long while anyway
>2: Don't eat her, Sandalthong did us a good turn by saving Hamil and we should do the same

Personally, I vote 1.
>>
There's nothing wrong with what actually happened. How it was presented, yes. But if you separate them completely into facts:
Attempt to hide Flint on magical airship.
Traitor angel reveals airship.
It gets attacked.
Attempt to follow, meet avatar instead (Who is not omniscient, and has shapechanging abilities).
Eat it, because that's how Shadow/Erebus gains power and always has been.

Not a bad story thread all in all. However, I can definitely imagine Adavan, Fang, and Auriel are cleaning up the mess and "culling" the ranks. Fang continually facepalming out our inability to even consider traitors.
>>
>>30598188
torturing crying angels does not bring me joy, rescuing Flint does.
>>
SM, does the pocket feel different to our chosen than it does to everyone else?
>>
>>30598269
It's only been 10 hours.

A half day was the point where shit gets really really bad.

She'll just be really freaked out and jumpy.
>>
>>30598188
That is a minor consolation.
>>
Do will still have that airship in our pocket?
>>
>>30598258
>>30598269

The intent of the "knocked-out" thing wasn't to make Jophiel a bubbling mess of madness, I was just amused by the implications. I can be flexible on that, considering it wasn't really a player choice.

-------------
-------------

"Well, if it can shapeshift and change its elements as readily as you say...no wonder that you were predicted."

"Hamil said he thought there was a mole," you say, "but Ila and Auriel never noticed anything. And Haven is literally a community of spies. Between the better half Ila's life spent doing undercover work and assasinations and Auriel's 700 years of experience, I thought there wasn't anything to worry about."

"Unless," Hemmelus says, "this mole was beyond even their expertise."

"The Avatar."

"Frankly, you nearly lost your life doing exactly what they expected you to do."

"It's not like I had a choice," you mumble. "I was in the same trap."

"You did the right thing given the information you had," Hemmelus says. "No one could have expected that ambush - or this freakish existence, for that matter. But now that we know there was someone else besides Sandalphon, this all begins to fit together. So, we know this Avatar was spying on you, yes?"

"It must have been. It's the only thing that makes any sense at all."

>con't
>>
>>30598283
I've been saying this for awhile, but they wouldn't hear it.
>>
>>30598144
I'mma trust you SM, because you seem repentant and you want to help us tell a good story, although the Avatar stuff is still a little iffy...
>>
>>30598279
"Yo thanks for saving Hamil, Sandles, I'm returning the favour."
>Dump Vegetable!Jophiel in front of him
"There might be some minor wear and tear.
>>
"Right," he says. "And all that time, it never bothered you? Never reported Haven's location to Sandalphon? Never attacked, never revealed itself in the slightest? What do you think that means?"

"I guess...it didn't consider me a threat?"

"That's the cover story," Hemmelus says. "But there's a layer under the layer. I think it left you alone - and Sandalphon left you alone - because you were playing right into their hands."

"What are you talking about?"

"The Sigil isn't complete," Hemmelus says. "And the demons haven't leapt up to complete it, even though they probably could. Which means they need something else on top of that. They need more energy, they need the stars to align. They need Chaos, in a very literal sense. And here we are, the gathered leaders and armies of the world, about to combine our might and join pitched battle with the greatest force of demons assembled since the Shadow War."

"...shit." You stand from the bed. You walk across the room, around the desk. You look up at the wall. "They used me to gather everyone together? They wanted to have the alliance come together?"

"I suspect so," Hemmelus says. "It will be the greatest concentration of magical force in decades. I don't know how the Avatar was able to come onto our plane, but then, you're here. Anything's possible. Perhaps the gash we made in the barrier has something to do with it. My patch isn't perfect; they're always watching out for the demons coming out of the gultch."

"Why not try to work on the patch?"
>con't
>>
>>30598326
>The intent of the "knocked-out" thing wasn't to make Jophiel a bubbling mess of madness, I was just amused by the implications. I can be flexible on that, considering it wasn't really a player choice.
She hasn't even been in there for the amount of time you said causes irreversible damage. Sure, it's getting close, but this should result in not much more than her being freaked the fuck out for a while.
>>
"I don't dare touch it again," Hemmelus says. "I only did it the first time because I had no other choice. The barrier itself is a mystery. It is like no other thing in Venia. Most scholars think Erebus - well, you - made it. How, or why, or for what purpose...well, life as we know it wouldn't be possible if it wasn't there. But then, Erebus wanted to destroy the elemental lords."

"Was Erebus trying to stop the increasing Chaos in the world?" you say. "I've heard a lot of bad things about him. But maybe, in a way, he was trying to restore balance. Maybe the elementals were disturbing things. Too much power."

"We can only speculate," Hemmelus says. "But the point is, when the most powerful mages in the world, leading the most powerful armies in the world, all go to destroy each other in one single area...that will provide them environment they need to complete their task."

"And take it a step further," you say. You cross the room back toward Hemmelus. "Say the Avatar was trying to pull some power from the spell, some sort of mass destruction. Everyone of any note would all be in one place. The same goes for Sandalphon. Hyperion would be there, and all his enemies and rivals would be lined up for him. Easy pickings."

"Indeed," Hemmelus says. "This is quite the pickle, isn't it?"

"Dammit!" You pound your fist on the desk. "What are we supposed to do? Let the demons ravage the countryside? If we fight, they bring in the Sigil, sacrifice Donovan, and one way or another, we're all screwed. If we don't fight, we're screwed anyway!"
"Ah," Hemmelus says. He raises a finger. "But in the wall of their plan is a crack of opportunity. At some point, John - or, maybe I should call you Shadow?"

>con't

>>30598360

Yeah, I just realized that. It's not really going to be a problem.
>>
>>30598301
Here's hoping someone reminds us REALLY quickly.
>>
"John's fine for now. Stay in the habit."

"I suppose," he says. "At some point, they will have to expose the Sigil. We know where it will have to be - on the battlefield. We know what we have to do - stop it, and save Donovan. And they don't know that we've figured this all out!"

"...an ambush," you say. "They think we're walking in, but we make the entire battle the cover for an ambush." You swivel to face him. "How can we do it?"

"First," Hemmelus says, "we need to do this!"

He fires a blast of Wind. For a sick, frightening moment, you think he's attacking you - but the ball of Wind sails by you. The door slams open, and two people crash onto the floor with a shriek. Abigail, and the Black Lady. They sprawl across the threshold in a rather undiginified tangle.

Hemmelus bursts out laughing. "Gotcha!"

>reaction

------------
------------

Let's get some opinions on the table.
>>
>>30598407
HAHAHAHAHA

Well looks like they're all buddy buddy now.
>>
>>30598407
"Well, at least this makes things quicker."
>>
>>30598407
This all seems rather... contrived.

We can just initiate the battle and then erasure the sigil?
>>
>>30598477
A contrived solution to a contrived problem.
At least he's trying.
>>
>>30598407
I think the best option would be for Shadow to sneak into Kan Abar and assassinate the summoners of the demon lords. Or maybe even one of the lords themselves.

Yes, it will alert the others, but it will buy us more time if one or two of them die.
>>
>>30598407
Ah, two lovely ladies come to visi-
FUCK I FORGOT ABOUT THE ANGEL
>>
>>30598477
I can already tell that the whole reason he was trying to get us off the Donovan saving was because this was already planned.
>>
this Avatar is crap is some bullshit, and Hemmelus suddenly being the God of exposition is bothering me.
>>
>>30598519
THIS
>>
>>30598407
I just... everything about the Avatar of Chaos is TERRIBLE. Everything.

It's literally worse than Aizen, because at least Aizen had some thought already put into him.
>>
>>30598535
At least Aizen also had a sense of fashion and timing.
>>
>>30598407
They seem to be getting along well enough.

>>30598477
It's not like their going to do it in the middle of the sky. We need to find them and stop all their best soldiers.
>>
>>30598407
I think this is salvageable. A little iffy but it seems to parse and it aligns with what we already been expecting(Angels are responsible for the demons in order to bring everyone under them). We really were doing their work for them.
>>
>>30598407
I just want to debate spending experience for a while.

Can we do that while we absorb this tangled mess?
>>
>>30598519
>>30598519
so much this
>>
>>30598407
I dunno. I think this works. I think that just moving forward with what we have will be preferable to retconning things.

I just want to move forward.
>>
>>30598407
"Why don't I go behind enemy lines and take out the mages maintaining the demon lord summons before the battle?"
>>
>>30598519
This
>>
>>30598407
Well gee doesn't that sound like the perfect situation for a certain stored natural one, don't it?

Retcon!
>>
There's a simple fix for the Avatar of Chaos.

There's no such thing as demons. They're all aspects of Chaos, a single unified being. 'Unified' isn't exactly the right term because... well. Chaos. You know.

The reason they spend so much time fucking mortals and mages over is because they are all trying to destroy the world and mostly don't give a shit about dying. Long term plans are still hard when you're crazy.
>>
>>30598407
"...Abigail, Melody." then sigh, "anything you need further elaboration on?"
>>
>>30598477
>>30598526

This is me, writing back out of a corner.

Again, this is the interpretation that pretty much must be taken assuming everything remains as it is. Patchy, but at least it brings the narrative back into some sort of cohesion. Hemmelus was the best character to play this role because he's the only one that can come close to pulling it off.

>>30598524

Correct.

I'll let you guys hash out whether you want to keep this and move on, or go back and take a mulligan. Many anons seem to agree that the Lightport is where the hinge turned, and if I had to retcon, that's makes the best sense to me.
>>
>>30598576
Eclipse
>>
I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but that bit about Vampires being shadow element creatures that consume soul energy and are unable to make their own sounds very similar to a certain mc
>>
>>30598602

This obvious solution is to eat the Core of Chaos.

There is no possible way this could go wrong.
>>
>>30598576

Yeah, debate to your heart's content. I am monitoring developments.
>>
>>30598519
Man

On the one hand, this will be hilarious

On the other, it might piss off Auriel.

In our defense, we didn't expect to get knocked out, since it has literally never happened before.
>>
>>30598620
It's fine as is.
>>
>>30598602
That's what I've been assuming the Avatar is this whole time.
>>
>>30598620
I'm perfectly fine with just moving forward with this as it is. Yeah, it's patchy. But a retcon is a total break. I'll take patchy and improving over a total break.
>>
>>30598535
C-can we retcon Xella's involvement? Please? Just...have Xella be a one-note thing. It makes me at least a bit less contrived
>>
>>30598640
just plop ourself in the nether and chow down.
>>
>>30598640
Well, it'd be an awesome storyline climax, wouldn't it?
>>
>>30598620
I think I'm fine with the way things are. I'm still iffy on the mole being the Avatar and what that means unless our fight with it basically killed it/sent it back to the Nether for the time being and it can't pull that Aizen shit again.
>>
>>30598598
...Yeah, I don't really like the sound of that.

Also this rigid Just-As-Plan is like... the OPPOSITE of what Chaos should be.

Chaos should be fluid and improvise, and have a tangled web of redundancies and tangents.

Like we should be able to save Flint, and Chaos should be able to find a workaround, because I would think the embodiment of chaos would be nothing if not creative and imaginative.
>>
>>30598704
>our fight with it basically killed it/sent it back to the Nether for the time being and it can't pull that Aizen shit again.

Yes.
>>
So with the new and improved Eclipse, I want to buy it and Tree Gift. Gift the Shadow Tree to Ila and the Earth Tree to Abby.
>>
>>30598407
Let's keep going. I hate retcons, and this plot line is looking alright. I agree that the avatar needs to be toned back a bit, though. I'd say have it sit out for the rest of the arc, but maybe try to reintroduce it slowly after this.
>>
Guys, guys, guys lets arbiter Abby.
>>
>>30598401
>>30598519
I figure us reminding us should be enough.

>>30598657
I think she's probably going to be equal parts relieved that we've graduated from just eating all of them and annoyed that we're sticking her with cleanup duty.

>>30598407
"...I see you two have been getting along."

As far as Avatar stuff, the only real issue is that it still existing means that any future enemy is capable of knowing everything the Avatar knows. If it's stuck in the Nether for a while due to us eating its physical manifestation or something like >>30598704 said, that's a bit less of an issue, but still kind of irritating.
>>
>>30598620
Just kill the stored crit and move on with things as they are and I'll call it even.
>>
>>30598719
Shadow MAGIC tree to lla
>>
>>30598742
I'd be cool with it but I'd honestly like to power ourselves up right now.
>>
I don't even understand what happened with the Nemesis, and are we just supposed to be buddy buddy with the angels after the attacked and killed our shit?
>>
>>30598620
I suppose if I had to order retcon points chronologically (from recent to past), it would be Avatar -> Light Port -> Hamil blows everything up -> Nemesis is attacked.

If we retcon the Avatar, the mole becomes a problem.
If we retcon the Light Port, the mole is still a problem.
If we retcon Hamil's fail of a teleport, we're back far enough to change the explanation for how the Nemesis was found.
If we retcon the Nemesis being tracked down and attacked, a lot of development disappears but so does the bulk of the nonsense.
>>
>>30598763

What if I promised not to use it for the rest of this arc?
>>
>>30598779
You can only gift the magic trees. The "magic" after the "Shadow" was implied by necessity.
>>
>>30598742
no
>>
>>30598763

On board with this idea.

SM threw us a bone by not letting us break the seal, we players throw SM a bone by letting him restore the plot as he deems best.
>>
>>30598717
This is the main thing I have an issue with. We are literally talking the manifestation of chaos here. Chaos doesn't do long-term planning, by it's very nature.

It also shouldn't take human form, and it shouldn't even be able to converse except in the most abstract of ways.
>>
>>30598782
if we want power for ourselves then the best bet is to aim for the centre tree and try to get OI in the near future,

Otherwise we're just dicking around in magic trees when our build is still mostly physical.
>>
>>30598742
You mean Arbiter Ila?

Or call up Dave and Arbiter him again.
>>
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28 KB JPG
>>30598742
Yes
>>
>>30598795
Arc and a half with a side of "No killing Donovon or our chosen".
>>
>>30598795
I really REALLY wanted this post to be a ruselord post SM, but sure... sure. As long as the next arc is the god damned palace, and NOT the big fucking mega battle that the survival of the world depends on.
Because we roll terribly enough as it fucking is.
>>
>>30598799
Okay. cause giffting the middle shadow tree is kinda dumb
>>
>>30598795
Can we just call it square? You used the natural 1 on yourself. It feels a bit like having your cake and eating it to continue holding the Fail of Damocles over us.
>>
The way I see it, this is still just speculation on the part of Shadow and Hemmelus. There's still SOME wiggle room to change a few things later on if we need/want to.
>>
>>30598742
Ila would make a better Arbiter
>>
>>30598795
I think the messed up way you even gained the crit-fail kind of makes it hard for you to barter for it.
>>
>>30598814
I will back this.
SM forgives our nat 1, we forgive his nat 1.
Call it even.
>>
>>30598795
How about you use it wherever you like because we made a deal with the devil? Feel free to bring sorrow to all.
>>
>>30598742
I'd like that, but Shadow Magic is also tempting.
>>
>>30598871
This
>>
>>30598871
And suffer the consequences of it's use just as much as we would. That'll be fun for a dozen QTGs or so.

I'll make sure it stays fun, infact.
>>
>>30598576
I want to get ORDER by any means necessary.

To do that we must first get Pure Darkness and to get that we need to finish a tree.

I know what I want to spend EXP on.
>>
>>30598795
Fine by me. I don't think this situation requires any compensation to the players. Just so long as no more Deus Ex Nethers get pulled, I'm happy to keep things going.
>>
>>30598519
Also, this.

I could use some black comedy.
>>
>>30598862
See, I don't agree, Ila doesn't nearly as comfortable with our nature as Abigail, who is totally down with it. By making Ila an Arbiter, we are literally changing her to be more like us. I'd rather give Arbiter to someone who'd be more comfortable with it
>>
>>30598900
We're getting Eclipse.
>>
>>30598834

How many times do I have to say that I'm not going to use it to kill someone before you believe me?

Seriously. I'm not using it for that.

>>30598841

I consider the current arc to be the major physical conflict between Kan-Abar and the rest of the world, with a side-helping of political conflict between your alliance and the Ring City. The 1 of Doom would not be used until that arc concluded.
>>
I vote that we buy out the entire Chosen tree. 43 total.
It's a big boost to both of our chosen. Arbiter is good, but it's only for one - and its derivative abilities that we can buy are what make it really amazing, and we can't afford those right now anyway.
>>
>>30598795
Didn't you basically just use it, what with driving us to fail miserably in our goals?

We can say you used the nat 1, and this clusterfuck was the result.
>>
>>30598916
*isn't nearly, gah tired
>>
>>30598795
Seriously SM.

Use the 1 wherever the fuck you like. The world should have started to end but we made a deal to let it live awhile longer. Use it as you see fit.
>>
>>30598932
We're getting Eclipse
>>
>>30598932
...Yeah I can get behind that.
>>
>>30598931
>How many times do I have to say that I'm not going to use it to kill someone before you believe me?
Because in this quest 1's affect player mentality and can encourage suicidal thoughts and apathy. The straw that breaks the camels back, if you will.

>The 1 of Doom would not be used until that arc concluded.
Alrighty then. I'm fine with that.
>>
>>30598931
Wow, that's a big arc. I'm fine with that.
>>
>>30598931
I still support tit for tat. We rolled the Critfail of Damocles and were stupid enough to let you keep it for later, and you fucked up with the Avatar.

Both cancel out.
>>
>>30597769
Wait, are our shards all still resonant? Not complaining or anything...
>>
>>30598620
I'd like to retcon back to the Lightport. Everything else can be forgiven, but the Avatar just makes me grind my teeth.
>>
>>30598970

WOOPS

Didn't update that.

Nah, they're all normal.
>>
>>30598932
Eclipse first.

We need to power ouself up first.
>>
Wait, so Chaos can use any summon to spy on us? It's as if we needed anymore of a reason not to get the summoning tree.
>>
>>30598970
They're all Normal right now, IIRC.
>>
>>30598931
Seriously though.

Use it wherever you want.
>>
I can support the entire Chosen tree. It will probably reduce the cost of Arbiter anyway.
>>
>>30598932
I'm down with that, we'd be giving them a serious boost that would probably help them be more combat effective
>>
>>30598992
I need clarification on this. and if it can use our peoples summons to spy
>>
>>30598992
Chaos Avatar is out of the picture for the time being.
>>
>People trying to twist SM's arm and wheedle a concession out of him.
You idiots fucked up overusing our shards in the first place, you agreed to let him store the critfail. It's valid.

You're worse than the French. You vote to give a dictator absolute power, regret it and start a fuss, then vote to give him more power.
>>
>>30598977

Avatar problem could also be fixed by Lucifer summoning some kind of crazy ass modified proto-Demon Lord thing.

It's been his secret wet works man for so long it starts to think for itself and "help him out" by taking on extra assignments. The end product is a very powerful summon with delusions of grandeur and the ability to set-up an ambush on us.
>>
>>30599013
>>30598992
WISP


WIIIIIIIISPBROOOO
NOOOOO
>>
>>30599007
>>30599012

You really wanna put MORE EXP into our allies when we haven't powered ourself up in god knows how long?
>>
>>30599031
This could work.
>>
>>30599040

Yeah, I'm on your side. Why don't we complete one of our trees?
>>
>>30599007
Eclipse
>>
Right now I'm seeing:
Ray of Darkness + Void Ring + Eclipse (42 XP)
Entire Chosen tree (43 XP)
Tree Gift + ??? (15 + ? XP)
Arbiter Abby (50 XP)
>>
>>30599040
It's like they voided all the hints from last time about how much we've been ignoring where our potential lies.
>>
>>30599012
>>30598961
>>30598932
We literally JUST Chosened them. give it some time first and quit just throwing powerup after powerup at them.
>>
>>30599031
The problem is that it's already dead and eaten, so it's a bit late to find out what it really was.
>>
>>30599058
If we get 1 more xp. ONE MORE. We can do tree gift and eclipse.
>>
Alright, the first vote I will call will involve the plot. I'll hold it in ten minutes time.

Don't vote now. Again, this isn't the actual vote. Just so everyone can be on the same page.

The choices will be:

1) Move on, keeping the current plotline. (I don't have more posts written out but obviously your next quests are impending)

2) Retcon back to the Lightport, before the battle with the Avatar.
>>
>>30599058
>Ray of Darkness + Void Ring + Eclipse (42 XP)
Only correct option.
>>
Urrk, I was hoping that we could just erase all the stupidity from last time, but it appears not.

Everything from Xile till now was a goddamn waste of time and effort.

Keep on the railroad guys, because that is exactly what this is.
>>
>>30599007
I would rather spend EXP into trying to get to ORDER and unlock what it hides.
>>
>>30599058
There seems to be a few looking at Physical Shadow Tree.
>>
>>30599058
I'd like to complete a tree.
Spirit tree's revealed abilities cost 35, with one covered up. Let's do that.

Also, how much XP is Jophiel worth? I'd like to eat her and be done with it.
>>
>>30598953
The main issue at this point is that this whole situation is basically something along the lines of what the stored critfail is intended to do; have one major point at which the plot turns in a way we have no way of rectifying.

And if player opinion toward this situation is going to be anything like inevitable plot twist SM wants to use his Sword of Damocles for, I'm really not looking forward to it.

I'm of the opinion that the whole idea of the stored critfail was really stupid to begin with, so I'm not sure I'm the right guy to be arguing about it, but hey.
>>
>>30599080
>>30599068
The problem is when we servanted Abby and Ila it didn't actually do them any good on Xile. Abby even lost her hand. So the answer is MOAR POWAH.

Us on the other hand has been rolling over enemies left and right.
>>
>>30599099
Don't like it, asshole? Then fuck off and let us have fun in peace.

>inb4 HURR I troll u
>>
>>30599064
Shit, I'm not ignoring it, but they are going to thrown into a war and they are like our most trusted allies. I think we'd benefit more in this conflict with them boosted up
>>
>>30599085
We have an Airship in our Pocket. But that'll probably be given to our allies. Unless they say eat it because we'd have to give it back otherwise.
>>
>>30599086
DO NOT RETCON
>>
>>30599126
you know we COULD eat the airship. I mean it is spoils of war after all.
>>
>>30599099
It really wasnt. None of it was. We fucking freed Hecate for gods sake.
>>
>>30599116

Well, I have more faith in us.

We've known about the stored critfail for a very long time - when SM pulls it out, I think we'll know to accept his choice.
>>
when we used torture on Jophiel she told us Sandalphon gave her the template for the lightport himself, how would he have no knowledge of the attack on the Nemesis?
>>
>>30599120
Nobody liked it when it happened, it going to take more than a few empty apologies from the GM to erase that.
>>
>>30599086
>1) Move on, keeping the current plotline.
Add getting rid of the nat 1 you keep holding over our heads even though you used it on yourself and its a deal.

That nat 1 was a fuckup token, and it was indescriminate, you used it on yourself, accept that, get rid of it and move on, trying to keep it after this debacle is just like that other anon said, trying to have your cake and east it too, especially after the shit you pulled.
>>
>>30599150
Or maybe ask Abby to steal Fang's box. Gotta be LOTS of XP in there.
>>
>>30599122
They're both Duke Vellik level. Quit fucking coddeling them.
>>
>>30599160
Avatar.
>>
>>30599160

Avatar of Chaos was pretending to be Sandalphon.
>>
>>30599160
It was probably the Avatar doing its thing and shapeshifting to look like him.
>>
>>30599108
Hm.
If we dip into that, Lightning Resistance is a given.
Disguise (and the thing behind it) might have a good bit of use right now, actually, with all the political shit we're doing.
I want Kindle. I just want it green-lit so I can forget about it forever.
Shadefang Poison might be a good hedge-your-bets ability, especially once we pick up Eclipse. Poison -> Eclipse. If they survive the nova, they won't survive the poison.
>>
>>30599160
Because Chaos was pretending to be Sandalphon.

Chaos is pretending to be everyone.
>>
>>30599165
It won the vote.
>>
>>30599186
Which is complete bullshit and everyone knows it.

Bullshit excuse trying to cover up a bullshit mistake doesn't work.
>>
>>30599112

I'd actually like to complete Spirit too.

Mind read would still be pretty fucking useful.
>>
>>30599186
>>30599191
>>30599193
This is pretty illustrative of why I hate the concept of the Avatar.
>>
>>30599186
>>30599191
>>30599196
What is this thing Aizen?
>>
>>30599191
Avatar is the most bullshit thing that has ever existed.
>>
Why don't we hurry up and complete the fucking shadow tree and the light grey tree in the center?
>>
>>30599196
>>30599191
>>30599193
>>30599213
>>30599215

I get the feeling that the Avatar of Chaos is going to be new buzzword of choice for QM fuckups, like powergaming was.
>>
>>30599196
You were expecting Sandalphon, but no- It is *I*! CHAOS! Hahaha~!
>>
>>30599195
>>30599108
It just isn't near as good as Shadow Magic.
>>
>>30599214
It's worse. At least Aizen had style.
>>
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>>30599179
I like the way you think, Anon
>>
Oh god. Avatar of Chaos is SO an Aizen expy.
>>
>>30599196
No John, you are the Chaos!
>>
>>30599156
Which in itself became a waste of effort with all that bullcrap.
>>
>>30599240
Genderswapped too, makes it even worse.
>>
>>30599210
>>30599213
>>30599214
>>30599215
Just fucking drop it already jesus.
>>
>>30599242
Chaos is EGO.
>>
>>30599168
>Add getting rid of the nat 1 you keep holding over our heads even though you used it on yourself and its a deal.

There will be a second vote on that subject, considering it seems to be a point of contention.
>>
>>30599240

It shows with >>30598387.
>>
>>30599224
Because pretty much everything else is better. Cool your OCD.
>>
>>30599186
>>30599191
>>30599193
>>30599196
Doesn't that just create a huge fucking paranoia sink?
>>
>>30599269
I wonder if SQ players really have gotten to be more careful planners overall, barring the occasional fuckup, because of the Critfail.

If you get rid of it, will we become less cautious?
>>
>>30599183
Coddle? Dude, arming them would only help us further
>>
>>30599279
But that's wrong.
>>
>>30599269
Well get on with the writing. I wanna see this>>30598533
>>
>>30599271
Not really. That perfectly aligns with the whole "Angels summonded the demons to bring everyone under their control" theory that's been specualated on forever. In fact, it actually makes it make sense why they'd resort to demons in the first place.
>>
>>30599291

Considering we just ate it last thread, no.
>>
>>30599291
It's completely devoid of Shadow, so it can't impersonate us or our shadow mages. And apparently it's dead and staying dead for a long time.
>>
>>30599279
Are you not even a little curious about what the tree completion bonus will be? Don't you want to work towards Pure Darkness and Order Immateria?
>>
>>30599257
Only if all the stupidity from last time gets rebooted.

Otherwise a good chunk of the players are going to be pissed for a long time, and SM would have to rely on even more retarded excuses to justify himself.

By restarting from the stupid point, the players feel better and SM doesn't have to try to write himself out of the corner retardely anymore. It's the best of both world
>>
>>30599303
Throwing more and more powerups for fear of them dieing will lead to coddeling. let them get used to what they got first.
>>
>>30599086
As weird as it sounds I'd rather just see the whole avatar battle rewritten. A light retcon with the same or similar events performed differently.

The whole sequence made me cringe and anyone reading the archives for the first time will probably do the same what the fuck are you thinking response. It could definitely have been done better.
>>
>>30599291
It's gone and not coming back for a while.
>>
>>30599292
There's nothing saying that he shouldn't punish us for making bad plans.

If anything, I'm surprised the looming critfail hasn't made people LESS cautious. People seem awfully fond of fatalistic thinking once things start to go downhill in most quests, so it's kind of impressive that we haven't had more inane "WELL HE'S PROBABLY JUST GOING TO MAKE US FAIL ANYWAY, WHY DOES IT EVEN MATTER" arguments.
>>
SM, can you just delete the entire Avatar of Chaos concept completely?

The Elemental Lords make more sense as the Avatars, multiple Avatars.
>>
>>30599337
I agree, keep the core events the same but give it a proper intense battle with the sort of appearance and feel that it should have.
>>
>>30599306
>>30599322
Compared to the Shadow Magic tree and Eclipse it is pretty shit.

We need some powerups because we kinda suck right now.

And yes i'm curious but i still chose Eclipse. Because it's unacceptable that the Fucking Shadow Elemantal doesn't have shit for shadow magic.
>>
>>30599364
I kind of like the idea of replacing the Avatar with another demon lord. It would fit the whole Chaos is coming from multiple directions and sometimes fight itself.

Shapeshifting Demon Lord Dickery?
>>
>>30599368
No, it's fine how it is. Have a little faith
>>
>>30599374
Plus Eclipse and connected abilities will probably unlock one or two nodes of Light Resistance, which we SORELY need.
>>
>>30599240
>Oh god. Avatar of Chaos is SO an Aizen expy.

Really? Aizen wasn't even on my radar when I was thinking this up.

I'm retroactively making the Avatar not look like complete and utter bullshit via Hemmelus's logic, though, so I guess it makes sense in a way.

-----------
-----------

Gather round, time for a vote. You have five minutes, as usual.

Vote 1:
>Continue with the current plot. Things remain as they are.

Note that the Avatar has been defeated for the time being and won't randomly show up in a further act of bullshittery for the duration of this arc. But it means you still have to live with the fact that it happened.

Vote 2:
>Retcon back to the Lightport. This means that the Avatar of Chaos and your battle against it are removed from the narrative.

This may improve the overall storyline as it currently stands, but I'd need to think quite a few things through in order to figure out how to proceed from there.
>>
>>30599390
You mean the faith SM rewarded with a kick in the balls? No thanks.
>>
>>30599394
Very true

It also opens up Null Ring.
>>
>>30599086

Really, the only problem with this business is that you wouldn't let us rescue Flint. At every possible juncture, you consciously or unconsciously were pushing for Flint's sacrifice to be the defining battle of the arc.

If you had Avatar of Chaos HOLDING FLINT HOSTAGE until the huge battle starts, everything would be fine. Then Flint is safe, and the whole sacrifice thing is delayed while Sandalphon transfers a Shel'Kath onto the strongest remaining Angel. You said you wanted to slow the pace - saving Flint would have achieved that. The only problem is that it seems like we didn't have a choice. I'm also not a fan of the fact that Flint is totally helpless on artifacted Carrier, given that he fucking killed a Demon Lord in single combat but managed to get himself kidnapped by 5 low-level Angels and a teleport spell.
>>
The Avatar was a Demon Lord.
Same experience reward. Make it a heavily Spirit aligned one and it can still pull stupid bullshit to locate the Nemesis (like Dream Walking). The fight was still tough as balls because it's a Demon Lord.
It also gives us a little bit of progression towards our goal of killing the Demon Lords.
>>
>>30599407
1
>>
>>30599407
1
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>>30599407
2
>>
>>30599407
1
>>
>>30599407
1
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>>30599407
1
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>>30599215
Lol shoehorning in a half complete idea, because you dont want to scrap effort when its shit. Sm must work on mechwarrior online- lol.

Its total shit..

Anyway. If we continue, I want the following concessions:
A nat 100 that can be used to cancel the 1.
An extra charge of artifact-For reasons of invalidating xile. Or a freebie on fixing Abby s hand without ising a charge, due to help from adavan and steward.
>>
>>30599407
1
>>
>>30599407
2
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>>30599407
>DCsy3GUeLy7
1
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>>30599407
1
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>>30599407
2
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>>30599407
2
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>>30599407
1
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>>30599407
1
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>>30599407
2
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>>30599407
1
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>>30599407
2
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>>30599407
2
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>>30599407
2
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>>30599407
1
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>>30599407
2
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>>30599407
1
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>>30599433
Xile isn't invalidate you fucking retard.
>>
>>30599407
1
>>
>>30599418
This this this.
>>
>>30599417
For the last time Angels CANNOT be used for the ritual. Their blessing interferes with the Shel'kath's magic.
>>
>>30599417
This is a really good point, even eithoit the avstat
>>
>>30599407
1
>>
>>30599407
2
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>>30599407
Make the Avatar a demon lord. Slows the pace and provides a plausible explanation.
>>
>>30599407
2
>>
>>30599442
woops, thats what happens when you Ctrl+F through a thread and don't pay attention
>>
>>30599479
All or nothing. The concept is okay as is.
>>
>>30599407
2
>>
>>30599489
1
>>
so no one wants to finish the spirit tree, or any other trees we have?
>>
>>30599407
1
>>
>>30599407
2
>>
>>30599492
No.

>>30599503
No.
>>
>>30599407
Yeah? Well it's not working, bullshit is still bullshit no matter how you dress it up.

Frankly a retcon is the best thing for you too.
2
>>
>>30599503
We need Shadow magic more than we need the rest of the Spirit tree or Earth tree.
>>
>>30599407

cutting off votes
>>
>>30599503
No, you've got backers. Just not being as vocal as the Eclipse group.
We'll see when the vote comes up.
>>
>>30599407
1
>>
>>30599407
1
>>
>>30599503
They're not as strong as our shadow magic tree, anon. I know how you feel though. I'd like to finish them all.
>>
>>30599407
1
>>
>>30599527
Please consider retconning the Avatar of Chaos into a delusional Demon Lord.
>>
>>30599534
Join the Resistance party! Earth+Wind, Spirit, and Lightning! Only 40 XP to top off those defenses!
>>
>>30599407
I count it as 15 1's V 13 2's, though others may want to double check
>>
>>30599527
So what's the verdict? I abstained because I couldn't really decide one way or the other on what would be better.

I feel like sucking it up and just getting it over with would probably be easier.

But it all seems so forced.
>>
>>30599394
Pretty confident it'll be one Light Resist. The other missing Light Resist should be down the Shadow bomb tree, if previous patterns are any indication.
>>
>>30599559
sounds good to me.
>>
>>30599570
and so my enjoyment of Shadow Quest ends.
>>
>>30599593
You know I was just about to say that. Theres space to the left of where Suicide Squad will be. I bet the second one is there.
>>
>>30599570
Ouch.
Sucks, because no matter what he's alienating about half the player base.
>>
>>30599534
Not him, but i'm still the single anon, waving the summoning tree flag.(its the cheapest tree, from what we can see.)
>>
No retcon: 15

Retcon: 13

Double counted it.

55% telling 45% what will be is unfortunate with the how polarizing this is, but I guess it was inevitable.

------------
------------

In a few minutes I'll hold a vote about what to do about the reserve supercritfail. Popular options currently include:

>Ditch it. You lose your nat 1 in exchange for the Avatar crapola.

>Keep it, but you're not allowed to use it for the remainder of this arc.

>Do what you want with it.
>>
>>30599600
Then we don't want you hear because you have no faith in SM.

Fuck off.
>>
>>30599457
>I'd rather sub a Demon Lord in and only minorly alter the plot, though
>>30599553
Agreed. Or a lesser demon trying to become a demon lord after having been summoned AGES ago. Something along those lines.
>>
>>30599615
Ditch.
>>
>>30599612
Anon, I commend you for your dedication, but I love the idea of us having Wispbro as our only summon
>>
>>30599612
All the trees look cheap when you can only see their beginnings.
>>
So people who want to finish the Shadow magic tree, must know they have to get Heart Stone titan.
>>
>>30599600
you do realise that the only thing that would have changed would have been the avatar fight, which is pretty meaningless currently

if that is the deal breaker for you, we're better off without you
>>
>>30599615
Narrow it down to 2 options.
>>
>>30599609
Would retroactively turning the Avatar into a Demon Lord work to placate the ones who supported the retcon?
>>
>>30599629

Let's not say things we'll regret later. I think my faith credentials are currently at an all-time low, the frustration is understandable.
>>
>>30599649
Eventually. I'd rather finish Order Immateria after getting Eclipse. Then we can figure out where to fill in from there.
>>
>>30599649
And Flesh Golem.
>>
>>30599615
>Do what you want
You already made it pretty clear that frequently (especially with well-laid plans and high stats) that we don't even have to bother rolling.

So, who cares. Stop storing crits and things too.
>>
>>30599629
I think I said this before, but you are talking about the faith SM answered with a kick in the balls and a slap to the face and a pile of bullshit.

So lolnope.
>>
>>30599649
We're not trying to finish it.
>>
>>30599654
Actually I'm pretty sure if he did the retcon, we might have genuinely been taken to where Flint was.

Really, I just... didn't have faith in SM's ability to do a retcon that wouldn't just make everything even worse.
>>
>>30599615
You already know that

>Ditch it. You lose your nat 1 in exchange for the Avatar crapola.

is going to win.
>>
>>30599657

Yeah, I will. Waiting to see what the general opinions are.
>>
>>30599665
If we get this, we are making one of those fuckers, and making a Titan.
>>
>>30599615
>Ditch it. You lose your nat 1 in exchange for the Avatar crapola.
I can live with that, the fight was largely meaningless and it won't be turning up for a long time, plus we got some nice look from it.
>>
>>30599660

Yes. At least for me. It removes a whole dimension of bullshit from the current set of events and makes the Ring City/Kan-Abar/Demon Alliance storyline stronger.
>>
>>30599660
Not all of them, but a minor retcon which only makes a small change that removes something both sides have the biggest issue with should placate quite a few.

>>30599615
>>30599662
I implore you to consider said compromise, SM.
>>
>>30599615

I think the best case scenario here would be making the Avatar a Demon Lord.

The entire concept of the Avatar goes against what we know about the Elemental Lords.
>>
>>30599674
This was his fist mistake after 100 episodes and probably over 200 threads. Quit being such a fucking prick, he's doing all of this for free.
>>
>>30599615
It doesn't matter what you do with it. You've made it painfully clear that you're just going to do whatever you want when the time comes.
>>
>>30599683
Well my general opinion is to scrap the 1 in exchange for all this bullshit. The whole "inspires people to play better" thing isn't entirely accurate with how fatalistic people get here.

I'd rather just not worry about it. After all you've said you won't hold us to the rails, so what's to fear?
>>
>>30599654
The Avatar fight is just... such shit though. The Avatar as a concept at the point it was introduced was shit. The fight was a cutscene. Everything about it was shit.

Basically, that's the part of this whole shitstorm where SM popped a squat and shit on my chest. The rest of it, sure that we unpleasant. Smelled terrible, got all over my windows. The part I really want to get rid of though is the giant pile of crap sitting on my chest.
>>
>>30599665
Y'know I find the pricing of that extremely... interesting. It's as expensive as eclipse, yet we've rolled over double flesh golem fights easily enough before.

I guess it's price is due to a sort of edginess tax of sorts, SM?
>>
>>30599615
Man bunch of utter morons.

SM, you've already admitted that you know which option would be better narratively. Don't force yourself to carry around a dead weight that will be crushing your face for the rest of this game, because that's what's going to happen.
>>
>>30599702
No, it's fine as is.

Besides that creates problems.
>>
>>30599615
If you are going to ditch it, let's at least make some fluff about it? Like, maybe the 1 we rolled back then was actually a critfail, and the result was the avatar?
>>
>>30599660
Yes.
>>
>>30599687
The angels basically declared war on us, I might be pissed if nothing fucking happens and nothing can be traced back too Sandalphon so he loses some face over all this shit.
>>
>>30599731
Clever.
>>
>>30599702
Honestly, yeah, I'm down with a slight recon of that nature. No Avatar related stuff, just...a bubble of Chaos that had interfered with teleport sigil just when we were about to port to Flint.
>>
>>30599721
Then leave.
>>
>>30599722
The only limiting factor to flesh golems is how many corpses you can get. They don't cost any xp at all.
>>
>>30599615
I'm going to take a extreme side on this.

If you ditch the nat 1 it should also allow what was prevented from happening.

This is a benevolent dictatorship and you already gave us a choice. We picked the nat 1 so let us live with the consequences.
>>
>>30599709
Hahahahaha, nope.

It was not even close to his first mistake. But this is the first mistake that he's admitted his guilt.
>>
>>30599764
>People have opinions that differ from mine.
>Lets kick them out.
No thanks, Mein Fuhrer.
>>
>>30599728
They don't believe him.

I don't really believe him either.

True retcons aren't really something that works, because it won't make the memories of the bullshit that originally happened go away, and odds are likelier that it'll just be a lot more difficult and we'll gain a lot less.
>>
>>30599731
This works
>>
>>30599731

This would be a pretty reasonable solution, IMHO
>>
>>30597923
>sensors had detected an unknown airship of the Shadow element
How has nobody called bs on this already
>>
>>30599730
What problems does a Demon Lord create that aren't preferable to the Avatar?

Sandals was already dicking with Demons to summon Hyperion.
Demon Lords are known for being extremely clever and seditious to their supposed masters, which lines up the betrayal/acting without permission.
A Spirit Demon Lord could locate the Nemesis, could dominate/mind fuck a highest into acting without orders, and could fuck with a teleportation sigil.
>>
I really hate the concept of the Avatar. It just clashes so badly with the Elemental Lords.

>>30599721

That's a beautiful metaphor.
>>
>>30599790
What were his other mistakes?
>>
>>30599800
This. It would put the whole concept of the avatar in an awkward place. Even if SM thought up a better intro, people would lose their shit if he pulled it out again.
>>
>>30599731
what's the point, removal is removal

Don't delude yourself.
>>
>>30599764
nah I will stay and have my vote, The angels are do some retribution.
>>
>>30599721
I can understand that, although having gone through it, doing it over without the avatar would just feel hollow, like reloading a quick save on a lower difficulty, sure it was shit, but I just want to move on with a positive outcome from this
>>
>>30599695
>>30599702

I don't know, it's not clicking. The demon lord would have called in reinforcements. I'm not sure how you could avoid dieing right then and there.

>>30599813

I thought it was clear that Sandalphon was lying. It's his bs, not mine.
>>
>>30599832
Not that anon, but one I vividly remember was the Palthair mines running-away-with-Abby miscommunication clusterfuck that resulted in us being captured.
>>
>>30599824
Because if they had a fifth Demon Lord then why didn't they summon the Pentaverate? ANd there is no way it could be less than a
>>
>>30599813
Busy arguing about other means, but yeah, it's standard angel bullshittery. Since even we couldn't sense the Nemesis when it was perched right above Haven until Hamil unveiled it in front of us.
>>
>>30599830
This. The Elemental Lords would fit as Avatars of Chaos much better than the Avatar of Chaos.
>>
>>30599844
That's not happening since it seems like they were manipulated by Aizen. We're gonna have to team up with them to save the world.
>>
>>30599800
I find it extremely hard to believe that he could do anything that's even more awful than the Avatar Bullshit.

Even if the retcon is still a sort of bullshit, at least it might just be less awful bullshit and he won't have to make up contrived excuses just to keep the story functioning.
>>
SM hold another vote for

1) retcon:Demon Lord edtion
2) no retcon

Because I would vote for the retcon for that one but I voted to continue as is on the last vote
>>
>>30599731
This
>>
>>30599849
>>30599855
Maybe a lesser demon that got almost as powerful as a demon lord over the ages? I dunno.
>>
>>30599849

It was kicking our ass until the very end until we surprised it.

It makes a hell of a lot more sense than the Avatar.
>>
>SM feeding us players the Shadowy Appendage as usual.
>Condom broke
>This is the morning after where we discuss the morning after pill.
>>
>>30599853
That was our fault for not leaving when we had the chance, he gave us an out and we knew that our allies would have been safe (for the most part).

We just didn;t take it.
>>
It was already decided to continue, and asking for another retcon vote is gonna delay the thread further.
>>
>>30599905
It was a pretty obscure out though. A hole in the ceiling that we'd have to ink through. Nobody thought we'd be able to take Abby with us.
>>
>>30599880
>>30599891
No that's fucking stupid and he already said why.
>>
>>30599849

SM, the Avatar is something that came out of nowhere and clashes really badly with the system you have in place.

7 Shades of Chaos and 1 Shade of Order. Then suddenly, you get this amalgam of all 7 Shades. It makes no sense.
>>
>>30599878
Except the thing is that a retcon of this scale would pretty much tear a huge hole in the story and force him to improvise new plot twists.

And I don't believe in his ability to do that, if the Avatar of Chaos is the best he could do.

I just want to put this shit behind us and get it over with already.

Like the way that he didn't even talk about the retcon at all makes me think that he hadn't given it any thought and thus it would likely be terrible and make the rest of the quest more terrible.
>>
>>30599886
That is even more bullshit than the AoC.
>>
>>30599860
Which you know, makes the fact that it was attacked even stupider.

INTERNAL CONSISTENCY!!: Never heard of it.

Frankly the Nemesis is apparently a worthless piece of crap now, so we might as well just eat it for XP, at least then it would be worth something.
>>
>>30599924

Hey man, I specifically described something about how a full-sized person/adult wouldn't be able to make it through that hole to hint at it being an escape route.
>>
>>30599924
He included it with us glance at it several times. seemed kinda overobvious.
>>
>>30599849
Because it was delusional? I dunno.
>>
>>30599433
>If we continue, I want the following concessions:
How bout once for each time sm bucks continuity too justify shit and make it work. Hee gets his way, and lots of effort not wasted, and we get a pass on bennies and side projects
>>
>>30599849
I wouldn't worry about changing it. Try to move on from it though. The more you give away in exposition, the more you write yourself into a corner. You're a good writer, so I think you will come up with something good given the time.
>>
>>30599930
Think of it as the Nether Elemental.
>>
>>30599952

Yeah, I'm on your side for this one, SM.

You mentioned it several times and some of us did actually vote for it
>>
How exactly does removing the Avatar of Chaos represent having a hole in the plot?

If anything, its presence seems more like a plot hole than its absence.
>>
>>30599876
fuck the angels and fuck SM's plot trying to make the demon lords the dominate threat,Sandalphon the backstabbing fuck and the God of light he is trying too summon are the largest threat around, we should be invading their Empire and demanding the return of Flint.
>>
>>30599974

Those are Demons.
>>
>>30599943
And this continuous pile of bullshit that he's forced to make up as he goes to make sure that the story doesn't fall apart situation that we have now is any better?
>>
>>30599855
It doesn't have to be the fifth Demon Lord.
It could be any one of the four already summoned.
>>
>>30599983
Because I think the stuff with the Penteverate being necessary, and the whole war being a trap, was part of SM's plan.

And if the Avatar of Chaos is retconned, and we do save Flint early, then the next arc is cancelled.
>>
>>30599983
Creating a fifth Demon Lord to fill that hole creates a massive plot hole on why it didn't call for reinfocements, why they didn't already pentaverate that shit. Not to mention the Mole idea and other shit.
>>
>>30599974
Works for me, a random insane occurance similar to dave in craziness. Better than what we got.
>>
Honestly, the only thing wrong with the Avatar is how it's acting.

The plan makes sense. We've long since thought the Angels were behind the demon summoning to bring everyone under their wing and now with Hyperion's summoning being linked to the Pentavrate we now have a straightforward connection to the two plans that fit well together. On top of that, with how much that's going to fuck up the Chaos Core, a hypothetical Chaos Avatar would totally want in on this plan.

The only problem I see is the lackluster presentation of the Chaos Avatar. And that's not worth a retcon.
>>
>>30600002
I don't think he has to make anything more up. We're safely back on his notes now.
>>
>>30600015
The creation of a Pentaverate is considered a doomsday scenario already. The whole war doesn't need to be a trap, it's already dangerous enoguh as is.

>>30600027
Point.
>>
>>30599983

I think it has to do with the fact that we would have effectively set the Pentaverate back by a lot. But I would rather have that than the Avatar.
>>
>>30599615
I remember when we had to deal with the consequences of our actions SM.

I was here from the beginning and you always use to say if we do stupid shit you will kill us.

The Nat 1 was a way out from the world almost ending so that should be held over our heads for as much as you want.

I seriously hope you don't even put it to a vote.

I won't quick or anything because I love your writing.

I'll just be disappointed.
>>
>>30600006
Then that doesn't make sense because it gives un another month of time, screws up the timing.
>>
>>30599952
>>30599953
We kind of had shit that was really more important and attention grabbing at the time if you forgot.

Especially when SM just spend the last thread to that end result making us believe that Yi Fang knew his shit and had a good plan to get us all out.

Miscommunication from the GM is not the fault of the players.
>>
>>30600015
If I buy an ill-trained attack dog to catch a burglar, the fact that there is not a burglar does not mean I do not have a problem still. Namely, the ill-trained attack dog that will rip out its owner's throat if he goes in the back yard.
Saving Flint early would not nullify the Demon War. There is still a Pentaverate. The Demons are not Sandal's to dismiss. He aided the progress, but it's beyond his control now.
>>
>>30600038
Yes, everything is fine besides his presentation of it, if he had presented it better and at another time there would be no complaining.
>>
>>30600054
And SM shouldn't have to deal with the consequences of his actions?

We're letting him stay with this bullshit and not leaving the train like we should, but the 1 is an acceptable price. Considering he doesn't even need it to make what he wants happen.
>>
>>30600038
Pretty much my thoughts as well.
>>
>>30600050
See >>30600027
>>
>>30600044
You mean he's trying to hold things together with strings of bullshit, but it's rather obvious that it is bullshit and falls apart at a deeper observation.
>>
I hope you guys realize that sm ceding the 1 will have little to no effect on the narrative. Something bad is still going to happen eventually, especially considering how we've rolled the past couple threads
>>
>>30600074
He told us we were going to meet Sandalphon the strongest person in existence who happens to hate all shadow with a burning passion. Then he said "hey look over here. look at this nice little crack that only you can get through. See it? it leads right to the surface where you can wait for your allies"
>>
>>30600063
And?
It means we accomplished something, even in all of this mess of failure. We took out one of the Demon Lord.
That's a benefit, as far as I'm concerned. It means we didn't waste a thread making no progress.
Kan-Abar is still a problem. Three Demon Lords is still a problem.
>>
>>30600108

It's not a Fifth Demon Lord, it's one of the 4 already summoned.
>>
>>30600038
>>30600103
>>30600097
Plus he could have did a Kubo and siad the avatar of choas was that shit we sensed in the deep.
>>
>>30600142
Everything is fine as is right now.
>>
>>30600142
Nah, his story still exists, it's just that the Avatar of Chaos is a patch he made out of bullshit.

The retcon not only removes the patch, it also tears down the rest of the tapestry and makes him have to change a lot of things around.

And I think that that's likely to be bullshit as well, and not the kind that gets us 50 XP.
>>
Redo the fight with a shapeshifting demon lord. If we lose and it kicks our ass and we run like a pussy, fine.

If we win and we kick it away like a football, cool.
>>
>>30600147
And he had just given us a strongest possible ally in the form of the Archmage Yi Fang, who had just told us that he had a plan.

Like fuck, what did he expect was going to happen?

If he hadn't done that, then yeah, we probably would have inked away, but with Yi fang telling us he has a plan? WHy would we even think of that shit?
>>
>>30600154
>>30600161

The Demon Lord could have gotten overconfident in its abilities to take us, too. It only realized it was in over its head when we got Conversion Factor, powered up all our shards, and beat it to death.
>>
>>30600161
>>30600154
Then why didn't it call for the other 3 to come and rape us?
>>
>>30599960
>How bout once for each timesm bucks continuity
>>30599687
>>
>>30600142
Point out this bullshit. Because so far I'm agreeing with this >>30600038.

The whole plot actually makes more sense now and we finally have a reason why the Angels resorted to demons and a better look at the whole situation. The only bullshit seems to be from the Avatar's presentation.
>>
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>> this thread
>>
>>30600196
it sounds almost as much bullshit as the avatar.
>>
>>30600197
Because it figured it could take us before we conversion factor'd it.

The entire fight went from crippling loss to beatdown and victory in like 5 seconds.
>>
>>30600196
>>30600197
Calling for the other Demon Lords to come help might not have made a difference, depending on fast they could teleport to the fourth's location through a shitload of adamantium.

We killed it pretty quickly, after all.
>>
>>30600100
>>30600100
You can leave whenever you want and no one would stop you or care.

He gave everyone the chance to recon it.
Seems like people chose not to.
>>
>>30600197

Because it was winning and we only beat it through sheer luck.
>>
>>30600210
Agreed.
>>
>>30600194
I don't know why we would trust him, we were prepared to fight him up until he saw Abby. Taking her and running away from the superpowers made the most sense in that situation.
>>
>>30600154
Demon lords can teleport to each other.
>>30600196
It would summoned the other ones immediately and no it does not take time.
>>
>>30600231
>>30600220
>>30600218
They can teleport in pretty dam quickly. Not to mention that i doubt they would take us on alone. Not if they know who we are, which they do.
>>
>>30600214
I would have gone to sleep already, since i know we won't get much done, but the fuckers that want us to use Arbiter instead of getting stuff we need is forcing me to stay..
>>
>>30600210
agreed.
>>
Replace the Avatar of Chaos with ONE of the FOUR Demon Lords.
A Demon Lord specialized for Spirit.
-Can Mind-fuck angels into obeying it without going through SandyVagina (why Sandals was unware of the attack on the Nemesis)
-Can divert/alter a teleport Sigil (as teleportation is something Spirit specializes in)
-Can Dreamwalk to locate the Nemesis without relying on a mole
-Overconfidence rectifies the "call for help" problem (which is silly to begin with - the Avatar has the same problem). It did not consider us a serious threat. The Avatar didn't consider us a threat at first either, and when it figured out that we were stronger than it it was already too late to stop us.
-Even though Flint is out of our reach, killing a Demon Lord would give us some plot progress. We accomplished something important, even if it wasn't what we set out to do.
-Kan-Abar still has three Demon Lord and a massive army. It still needs to be dealt with in a timely manner, before their ranks get bigger or they summon more Demon Lords.
>>
>>30600038
Basically my thoughts exactly.
>>
>>30600220
It took two turns to kill it.
One turn is more than enough
>>
Well, I think downgrading avatars importance could help a bit, call it a nether elemental, a fluke, and move from there.
>>
Ok, let's have it out about the nat 1.

And to everyone: I'm trying to be cordial and work through this with you guys. You're entitled to be upset, but if you have nothing to do but write the word "bullshit" fifty times in your post and call other people idiots, then you should probably stop posting for a minute. There's enough in the pot already without people actively stirring it.

>>30600074
>Yi Fang knew his shit and had a good plan to get us all out

You aren't thinking like Fang. He would have preferred to get you out, but he didn't hesitate in the slightest to use you as a scapegoat to achieve his primary objective: Abigail. He threw you on the chopping block, using your affection for Abigail and your allies against you, in order to satisfy Sandalphon while making himself look like the good guy.

My comeback to the complaint that "Hey, we had this awesome NPC that was taking the reigns, what did you want us to do?" is that there was absolutely no reason for you to trust him in the first place.

I don't feel as though I have much blame at all on those events, but it's in the past anyway.

-------------
-------------

Let's get to the point.

After some consideration, I feel that half-measures on this are not acceptable; either I need license to do what I want, or it needs to be taken away from me entirely and not even a factor.

Again, the Nat 1 will not be used to kill any character. It will cause a dramatic shift in the story, but no one will directly die from what I have in mind. And frankly, the event itself may or may not happen, so I might end up throwing it at something big but not ultimately earth-shattering.

Here's the vote:

Vote 1:
>Take away the Nat 1 of Damocles as a price for the...everything.

Vote 2:
>Use it as you see fit.
>>
>>30600286
To teleport a demon lord.
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600283
Then why din't it call for reinfocements? why did it try and take us alone knowing how strong we are? why did it even attack us in the first place? they're trying to stall for time so why attack us? why not just let us pop up in an empty chamber?
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600309
2
>>
>>30600309
2
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600309
2
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600309
2
>>
>>30600309
2
>>
>>30600309
2
>>
>>30600325
Because it might have gotten overconfident, but it also knew that we could become a critical threat in the future and it tried to kill us before that could happen.

Then CONSUME happened and we killed it in a matter of seconds.
>>
>>30600309
2
>>
>>30600309
2
>>
>>30600309
2
>>
>>30600325
How is "why didn't it call for reinforcements" a hole for the Demon Lord, but not the Avatar?
I even addressed that in the very post you are quoting. Ready it more thoroughly.
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600309
2
>>
>>30600309
2
>>
>>30600361
this plan gets rid of the players urgency and forces SM to roll for EXP.
>>
>>30600309
And we would know all that shit at the time how? Because you knew it?

I mean shit, you could off at least had to balls to have someone tell us to Ink away or even made it explicit that we could have inked away and have all our friends and allies be safe.

I mean, the ink away option just sounded like we were going to abandon everyone else, why the fuck would the majority even pick that shit?
>>
>>30600325

He addressed all those question.

It DIDN'T know how strong we were.
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600309
>>Take away the Nat 1 of Damocles as a price for the...everything.
1
>>
>>30600361
It takes less than a couple second for a demon lord to teleport to another.
>>
>>30600309
2
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600419
Idiot.
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600419
Anons, it has to be the number only. Try again if you must.
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600383
Who would come to help the Avatar? the Demon lord that she never met? the Angels that are busy or under watch that probably one 1 knows of? And why would the Avatar even be able to send the message out?
>>
>>30600411
... Why does it force him to roll for XP?
A Demon Lord is a fat enough bounty to be worth 50 xp. Why do you think that would change?
It lessens player urgency, which we have too much of anyway. It does not remove it.
>>
>>30600309
1
>>
>>30600423
Do we know that for sure?

>>30600446
This is assuming that the Avatar was actually a demon lord.
>>
>>30600309

cutting off votes
>>
The Demon Lord thing is no less contrived than the Avatar thing.

I don't understand what it fixes it all. It's just a bunch of bullshit to counteract other bullshit.
>>
>>30600452
>A Demon Lord is a fat enough bounty to be worth 50 xp
its worth more XP than 50 espcecially when we gained more from weaker people.
>>
>>30600283
Second. All of the facts basically line up with the Avatar of Chaos.

It'd be a relatively minor splice that fixes continuity issues and removes the goddamn Avatar. The Demon Lord was a tricksy fucker who has been playing the angels.
>>
>>30600456
Which is why is wasn't a demon lord because if it was then nothing would make sense.
>>
>>30599615
>reserve supercritfail.

How bout: fuckit you owe us one for allllll this shit.
Nat100
Plus something forfucking our nemesis surpirise and making our artifact worthless
And some thing for that lameass mole juatifucation and player paranoia that You said would not be worth it . Its super lame.

Imho you used the critical already, and getting rid of the avatars you have a giant boner for 1 to 2 arcs is plenty off concession for the other character breaking stuff that went into the patch.

We really get you want the avatars, but your still being kind of a fanboy and unfair about forcing it in this plot
>>
>>30600383
The demon lords are connected and can teleport to each at any time.
The Avatar not so much.
>>
>>30600283

THIS. This is perfect.
>>
>>30600446
It literally mantling the 7 elements.
It didn't even try to summon anything. You'd think the manifestation of Chaos could be sitting on a few Dragons or something if she was afraid of our strength.
>>
>>30600309

And then I lost the Nat 1.

Well, that's how it is.
>>
>>30600495
Fuck off no wants you here.
>>
>>30600495

No.
>>
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>>30600509
It's alright SM.
>>
>>30600495
I actually like this better than just getting rid of the 1.

Make it so the 1 stays but we get a 100 to use on whatever we want, but not what the one is used on.
>>
>>30600495

No.
>>
>>30600509
well you didn't lose it, you used it, just in a way you never imagined

but onwards with the story, we've wasted enough time
>>
>>30600495
Just leave.
>>
>>30600309
The thing with Fang is ridiculous. Even if it was SM's fault, we got Ila/Hamily/Cain/all of haven out the deal. You people clearly have never experienced true GM dickery.
>>
>get here late
>we didn't retcon
damn it guys
>>
>>30600509
Know that some of us still trust you. and always will.
>>
>>30600571
we were 2 votes short to.
>>
>>30600509
You used it on yourself

It's okay. Everything is alright. Mostly.
>>
>>30600577
stockholme syndrome

I kidd, I kidd. Now let's consider exp.
>>
>>30600571
>>30600582
Don't lose hope guys, you can always push for retcon next fuckup :)
>>
>>30600509
Now lets discus how we handle the EXP, since the thread is already delayed.
>>
>>30600509

Handling that kind of Bad Luck for too long will have adverse effects.
>>
>>30600509

EXP debate when?
>>
>>30600509
Are you really surprised? You let the players get rid of a auto nat 1.
>>
>>30600509
I still love you
>>
>>30600539
Gotta agree with SM, I'd rather get a 100 through a roll then getting it by wheedling him because of this
>>
NOw that thats done with lets get Arbiter Abby!
>>
>>30600539
How about some hawt Adavan fan service to make up for it?
>>
So now do we eat the Airship or do we give it to Auriel?

Note: Auriel might tell us to eat it anyway because if not then we'd have to give it back.
>>
>>30600509
Personally I trusted you to use it right, but I don't trust /tg/ to handle the outcome with anything less than a shitstorm like we just had yesterday.
>>
>>30600624
Arbiter a shit. Eclipse is love.
>>
>>30600571
It'd just make things worse, and was likelier to kill the quest than not-retconning would be.
>>
>>30600624
Fuck no.
>>
>>30600607
>:)
Epic
>>
>>30600533
>Make it so the 1 stays but we get a 100 to use on whatever we want, but not what the one is used on.

I really like your idea, Brutus, but I think the vote we just had was rather final. Enough it enough. It's time to move on.

-------------
-------------

EXP DEBATES!!!!

Meanwhile, I will write. Goddamn, we're on page 6, and I feel exhausted.

To the bitter end!

>>30600577

Anonymous, more than anything, I'm sorry that I failed you. I got caught up in my plans and betrayed the entire idea of quests. We will compose a story worthy of your trust.
>>
>>30600509
*shoulder pat*
>>
>>30600602
>>30600611
>>30600613
Eclipse.
>>
>>30600649
Eclipse.

Nuff' said.
>>
>>30600624
Oh boy oh boy oh boy it's time for xp shitstorms

TEAM ECLIPSE
>>
>>30600649
Eclipse.
>>
>>30600629
I'm up for eating it.
>>30600649
Consume the Ship first.
>>
>>30600624
This, I think some Arbiter fluff would cheer me up after all the shit that has happened.
>>
>>30600649
Eclipse
>>
>>30600649
Current factions:

>Eclipse
>Arbiter
>Spirit tree
>Physical Shadow tree
>Resistances
>Earth tree
>>
>>30600649
It's okay.

Eclipse
>>
>>30600649
I'm gonna side with team eclipse.
>>
>>30600649
>Meanwhile, I will write. Goddamn, we're on page 6, and I feel exhausted.
christ, 550 posts already...
>>
>>30600679

TEAM SPIRIT TREE UNITE
>>
>>30600649
Shadow master lets consume the Ship.
>>
Arbiter
Chosen Tree
Center Stuff

>Eat the Airship.
>Eat Fang's Box.
>>
>>30600476
The first Demon Lord we ate gave us 9 XP.
Just saying.
>>
>>30600649
Eclipse
>>
>>30600674
I feel like we should consult with Auriel first.
>>
>>30600679
I think some people were talking Chosen Tree.
>>
>>30600649
I want to consume something for 1 xp and buy Eclipse and Tree Gift.
>>
>>30600649
Eclipse
>>
>>30600649
Tree Gift
>>
>>30600649
ORDER!
>>
>>30600509
As a long time fan of comic books, let me just say that you have left a LOT of room to change some things in the narrative later on. I still have faith that this will all turn out okay, if not perfect.
>>
>>30600679
Remove Arbiter, it is full of wiafu fuckers.
>>30600709
Wasn't he almost dead/gone.
>>
>>30600707

>implying that Fang will give us his Little Box o' horrors

Nigga, he'd rather die twice.
>>
>>30600706
>>30600707
>>30600674
Fuck no
>>
>>30600649
Consume the Ranarok(I think?). Consume Jophiel.
Then we can talk XP, once we've got our total.
>>
>>30600649
Use this>>30598593
>>
>>30600649
*zenhug* That's okay, we'll fuck up royally through are rolls and we'll all look back at this and [s]cry[s] laugh
>>
>>30600649
Eclipse
>>
>>30600735
Thats why we have Abby steal it from him. Out with the old and all that.
>>
>>30600735
He already died once.
>>
>>30600731
Yes, but it's the only example we have.
So saying that a Demon Lord is worth more than 50 xp is kind of baseless.
>>
>>30600706
>>30600707

Consuming the Ship seems a little dumb, considering we're about to have a huge fucking battle and we could use a functional ship with weapons on it.
>>
For all the people saying consume the Ragnarok, do you not understand that it's THE GUNSHIP of the entire angel fleet? It's got enough firepower on board to demolish fucktons of enemies, something the Nemesis really needs as a protector and assault-capable ship it can launch.
>>
People, just saying Eclipse over and over again isn't going to win you votes.
>>
>>30600649
Eclipse pls.
>>
>>30600762
SM is said that fighting against 1 now was the equivalent of fighting one of the top 3-4 angels.
>>
>>30600741
>>30600649
meant
Use this>>30598519
>>
>>30600509
It was already eroding player trust, and encouraging that is the last thing you need.
>>
>>30600778
According to the timestamps, it has a hell of a lot more supporters than your choice probably does.

No offense.
>>
>>30600509
>>30600649
Again, judging by this whole debacle, if the thing you wanted to use it for requires us to fail by dictate to justify introducing it, nobody is going to be happy with the outcome.

And if it DOESN'T, if it's worthy plot development and doesn't require our complete suspension of disbelief, I can't imagine there's anything keeping you from moving forward with whatever plan you had in mind, Damocles or no.

>>30600735
C'mon, Fang. We don't have to eat the whole box. We just want to drink its sweet, sweet nectar.
>>
>>30600768
>>30600769
. . . How do you think we're going to slip using it past Sandals, exactly?
>>
>>30598834
Seconded

Imho sm used the 1 to start this mess, and now that it hasn't been undone it counts as spent. Everything else needs to have some give and take to it.
Just cuz the avatar exists now doesn't mean we wanna see that shit again so soon.
>>
>>30600768
we would need to give the ship, back.
>>30600769
Heart Stone Titan+ Robots one super Heart stone titan.
>>
>>30600769
we just need some fighters from Fang and we would have the perfect Flagship
>>
>>30600778
I don't think we need anymore votes really.

But the reasons have all already been stated.
>>
>>30600808
By keeping it inside Nemesis or our Pocket.
>>
>>30600649
Something to keep you going, SM.
Despite naysayers and people's knives in the form of verbal abuse, they are still reading. Haven't lost them yet.
>>
SM has made it very, very clear that airships actually matter little in battle. All they've ever done is gotten smashed. Either by us or by others.

Even our ARTIFACT ship has been no-selled. So I see no point in keeping it.
>>
>>30600790
Then perhaps a closer estimate would be Lucifer, who gave us 37.
>>
>>30600769
We can just get fang to arm our ship up.
>>
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>>30600821
>Give the ship back
>>
>>30600841
Were you there at the Evinbrook battle? that thing turned the fucking tide.
>>
>>30600804
I'm betting it's going to turn out that we've been in a VR simulation the whole time.
>>
>>30600571
If I was sm I would have just retconned, as it would have not alienated the people who wanted a retcon, and the people who didn't probably voted that way because they trusted him and would have likely stayed even if he retconned. I seriosuly doubt anyone would have said "He retconned? Bullshit!" and left as they are much more likely to quit because he didn't. But that's just catering to the playerbase, as an actual story related look at things the retcon would have forced SM out of his comfort zone and planned plot to come up with something inventive to fill the holes, aa it is we're just stuck with an unsatisfying plot twist and the rest of the arc more or less planned out with the things we can and cannot do in order to save Donovan
.
>>
>>30600769
>>30600768
The retards are going at full force
>>30600808
It mysteriously disappeared and is going to reappear to kick his ass.
>>
>>30600852
Who was also half dead.
>>
>>30600808
>>30600821

Uh, well. Considering that Sandals is going to attack the demons with us probably, I'd prefer if we have Ring City's warship fighting for us.
>>
>>30600808
We tell him to fuck off. It's payment for attacking us.
>>
>>30600808
Tell him to go fuck himself.

Ours now.
>>
>>30600649
Finish the shadow trees!
>>
>>30600876
Being almost dead does not reduce the experience from consuming a person the way it does a summons, anon.
>>
>>30600852
Michael gave us 40-something and he was damaged. Lucifer was mostly dead when he gave us 37.
>>
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>>30600852
see here
>>
>>30600852
We gained 45 exp from Michael.
>>
>>30600866
I see I am several minutes late and as so just restirring shit up, ignore me please.
>>
>>30600900
This. Jumping on a new skill bandwagon is all well and good, but we have like 3 or so trees we finish.
>>
>>30600907
it has been proven that how far from death is how much EXP we get.
>>
>>30600919
He was brimming with energy and hadn't just fought a massive battle.
>>
>>30600934
Spirit tree is the cheapest to finish.
>>
>>30600900
this
>>
>>30600934
>>30600954
We're getting Eclipse. We need something that will actually boost our combat capability.
>>
>>30600934
>trees we finish
we could finish*
>>
>>30600967
No fuck you. We're getting heartstone titan because robots are cool.
>>
>>30600977
TEAM ECLIPSE STRONK
>>
Why do you guys want to get Eclipse when we'll be fighting Demon Lords. Most of them use a form of Shadow Magic as well.
>>
>>30600987
Eclipse has been altered.

It only lowers enemy resistance now.
>>
>>30600987
Eclipse got changed. New version only kills the resistence on things that the caster considers enemies.
>>
>>30600977
I used to be in that party. We'll get that eventually, don;t worry.
>>
>>30600987
Because it now only negates enemy resistances.
>>
>>30600987
No longer lowers the resistance of allies.
>>
>>30600987
no idea, i myself like the heart stone titan idea or actually getting the gravity powers and the shit after them(SM said that we would love them more than the giant robots.)
>>
>>30600987
There was a change to how Eclipse works as of this thread:
>>30597736

>Ability update:

>>Eclipse - Forcibly assert the power of darkness to eclipse the sun itself for 2-5 turns, covering a miles-wide area centered on the user. Negates Shadow resistance of all enemies, doubles Shadow magic power, and halves the mana cost of Shadow Magic spells while active. Costs 25 mana, or half current mana, whichever is greater. Only useable once per day.

>Negates Shadow resistance of all enemies
>halves the mana cost of Shadow Magic spells while active.
It's way, way more practical now for fighting Demon Lords than it was before.
>>
>>30600977
And suck my dick we're getting Eclipse
>>30600987
Most use fire magic.
>>
>>30600987
We will also be fight angels aswell as all these other reasons.
>>
>>30601012
>gravity
Muh nigguh. I fucking hate the robots, but gravity is cool as fuck.

But Eclipse did get changed tho. It's good now cause it doesn't affect allies.
>>
>>30601019
More practical in general than before.
Thank goodness.
>>
>>30601025
>Most use fire magic.

I think that's only our own tree, although I think Xella used fire magic as well.
>>
>>30601019
I'm not sure if that really works, since has AoE magic previously been that specific?
>>
>>30601019

Alright, you fuckers convinced me.

TEAM ECLIPSE!

call the vote SM!
>>
>>30601012
Pretty sure he didn't.
>>
... We aren't a magic heavy build though. We're primarily STRONK. In fact most of our magic is outside the Shadow Magic tree.
>>
>>30601025
While in general I agree that Demons use fire predominately, I think Demon Lords are an exception and have a lot more variety.
>>
>>30601051
It isn't really an AoE kinda thing. It's more of an area based buff
>>
>>30601046
The only demon we fought that used shadow magic was a Demon Lord.
>>
>>30601051
SM confirmed that it does at the start of the thread when someone brought up that concern.
see>>30597836
>>
So if we used Eclipse around Sandalphon in the fight against the Demon Lords would his resistance be lowered as well?
>>
>>30601054
He did, after we revealed the golem, look at his post.
>>
>>30601059
Eh, once upon a time I'd agree with you. But Eclipse brings our Shadow magic ability on par with our physical ability.
>>
>>30601059
Which is why we're rectifying that.

We've been dumb as hell not getting shadow magic.
>>
>>30601086
If we consider him an enemy, then yes. If he's an ally, then no.
>>
I'm pretty sure Eclipse is pretty universally liked, which naturally includes the purchase of Ray of Darkness.

To ECLIPSE!

In the meantime...

----------
----------

You snicker. Abigail glances up. Her face is beet red. "Uh, we, uh, we're just - "

That sets you off. You double over, leaning on Hemmelus's chair. "Were you...you were eavesdropping?"

Abigail weaves her arms out from between the Lady's leg as you and Hemmelus practically fall over one another. "I guess that saves us some time, eh John!"

"No kidding." You straighten up as the ladies brush themeselves off. "So...ah, my Lady."

"Melody is fine, Shadow," she says. "Hemmelus and I were sharing suspicions before you woke up. I meant for Abigail to learn my identity...well...not quite like that. But I suppose it will have to do."

"Abigail, what are you doing awake?" Hemmelus asks. "I thought I told you to get some rest."

"...I couldn't sleep," Abigail says. "I was...wandering...and I just, decided I might as well come back here, but then, um, the..."

"Melody, Abigail," she says. Her voice is warm and gentle. "I'd like it if you called me that."

"...thank you." Abigail gives herself a little shake. "Well, Melody and I ran into each other, and she said we should listen in. On things."

"What a terribly naughty thing to do," Hemmelus says. "I see Melody is still up to her old tricks."

The Lady rolls her eyes. "You're one to talk, Hem."

"I resent that accusation. In my old age I've become wise and responsible."

"Is that why you leapt into battle against Metatron, then?"

Hemmelus makes a face, but says nothing.

"You heard everything?" you ask Abigail.

She nods. Her face is still pink. "Yeah. I guess so."

The sudden arrival of the two women was unexpected, but rather convenient.

Sudden arrival.

Of women?

"...night and moon," you breathe. "The angel!"

>con't
>>
Its also fiendishly expensive mana wise and only lasts 2-5 turns.

Not worth it.
>>
>>30601059
On the way to Eclipse we end up getting some stronger Shadow spells, like Void Ring. Also Eclipse leads to something, might be interesting to see what it is.
>>
>>30601086
If we considered him an enemy at the time, yes.
If we did not, no.
>>
>>30601059
A 10 mana Void Ring that does double the normal amount of damage is going to be awesome regardless of our physical build.
>>
>>30601086
If we so willed it.
>>
>>30601092
Quote it and link it.
>>
"...Shadow?" Melody asks. "What's wrong?"

"Jophiel," you say. You swivel to Hemmelus. "She's still in my Pocket!"

"Your what?" he asks. You explain to him exactly what that means. "Light bless us, get her out, now! Use the bed!"

"Hem, are you sure?" Melody says. "Maybe...it would be better if she died in that battle. No questions, no mess."

Abigail looks worried. "That seems...awefully cruel."

What do you do?

>...you're right. I'll put her down.
>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon.
>some other strategy
>>
>...you're right. I'll put her down.
>>
>>30601138
>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon.
>>
>>30601112
It's worth the expenditure, though I do think that setting Eclipse to a static mana cost is better.
>>
>>30601138
>>...you're right. I'll put her down.
>>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon.
these say the same thing.
>>
>>30601138
>...you're right. I'll put her down.
>>
>>30601128
Give me a moment.
>>30601138
>>>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon
>>
>>30601110
put it to a vote SM. Please. I don't want Eclipse.
>>
>>30601138
A little bit of both. She's a cunt, and also it might be kind at this point.
>>
>>30601138
>...you're right. I'll put her down.
>>
>>30601138
>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon.
>>
>>30601138
>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon.
>>
>>30601138
>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon.
>>
>>30601138
>...you're right. I'll put her down.
"Considering Sandalphon's help with Hamill and the current situation a show of mercy would help."
>>
>>30601138
>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon.
>>
>>30601176
agreed
>>
>>30601138
Can we also humorously drop that we have the Ragnarok in there for the sheer disbelief on their faces?
>>
>>30601138
>...you're right. I'll put her down.
>>
>>30601138

>CONSUME

Releasing her only strengthens the Ring City, and she is a fucking war criminal. Eat her.
>>
this is going to have negative effects on both Abigail and Ila, Sandalphon also saved Hamil
>>
>>30601176

What's the opposing faction?

And it looks like we might have to vote about what to do with Jophiel, as well. Argh, too many votes!
>>
>>30601138
>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. This will be a lot less cruel than having Auriel get her hands on Jophiel.
>>30601176
I do!
>>
Hallucinations and paranoia begin within 15 minutes of sensory deprivation.
I can't imagine she is feeling well.
>>
>>30601176
>>30601203
Eclipse already won.
>>
>>30601138
>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandles.
>>
>>30601230
Eclipse is almost unnamious.
>>
>>30601230
Chosen Tree
Center Tree
Arbiter


and spirit tree? Maybe?
>>
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>>30601203
>>30601176
>>
>>30601230
There isn't a concentrated opposed faction, only a scattered few.
>>
>>30601138
>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon.
>>
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>>30601051
>>30601077
Pic related.

And I'm usually the dude who's clamoring to figure out how everything works on a base level. Just roll with it.

>>30601138
>>She knew about the plan with Donovan. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon.
With Sandalphon playing coy about the whole thing, she's really the best chance we've got. Auriel can play good cop, we can play bad(?) cop, and we can figure out just what exactly happened in the leadup to this whole disaster.

>>30601210
...I can get behind this.
>>
>>30601228

Hamil wasn't a war criminal and Sandalphon was using him as a political tool.

Jophiel is a zealot for Ring City and would think nothing of killing us and her friends if she had the power.
>>
>>30601176
>>30601203
>dragging out this EXP debate even more

Cmon, just let Team Eclipse win so we can move on.
>>
>>30601138
>...you're right. I'll put her down.
I don't see how her running back would even cause problems for us. She doesn't know shit and she's going to be out of commission.
>>
>>30601259
I want to buy Tree Gift and Mind Reader, but I want Eclipse more.
>>
>>30601128
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/28199534/#p28205322
>>
>>30601138
>...you're right. I'll put her down.
>>
>>30601230
I'm pretty sure most of us are okay with Eclipse and that it's just a few vocal anons who want to waste time with a vote, but if you feel that it's necessary go ahead.
>>
>>30601230
Finish off the shadow tree. Pure Darkness and OI seem way more useful.

Also, considering how fuckhuge the tree is, we -have- to get something good for finishing it.
>>
>>30601230
Finish the shadow trees
>>
>>30601292
If thats true then it'll be a short vote.
>>
>>30601296
That doesn't really say much.
>>
>>30601138
Shadow Master, could you PLEASE do a revote, because I have no idea which option is which, considering the connotations of "put her down".
>>
>>30601328
They both say to kill her.
>>
>>30601138
Whichever ones mean let her go.

Because come on guys, do you REALLY want to alienate Hemmelus now?

Don't be retarded.
>>
we voted last thread to keep her alive didn't we?
>>
>>30601328
Yeah, I'm just realizing that the ambiguity probably means I was voting for the thing I actually DON'T want us to do.

There's probably going to be a sudden death lol vote anyway, but it seems especially prudent in this case.
>>
>>30601328
I'm also confused.
>>
>>30601138
>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon.
>>
I'm pretty sure put her down is let her onto the bed.
>>
>>30601357
Hemmelus probably thinks she should die too.
>>
>>30601138
Put her down, but warn the others that it isn't going to be pretty.
>>
>>30601138
>>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon.
>>
>>30601351
That's bullshit since we had already fucking decided on not doing it.
>>
>>30601138
>>...you're right. I'll put her down.
>>
I want Jophiel dead... but Hemmelus is right here.
>>
>>30601138

>...you're right. I'll put her down.
>But she knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon.
>some other strategy
>>
>>30601384
No, anon. You don't want to kill her.
Stop pretending we agree with you.
>>
>>30601384
Not after she spent 11 hours in the Pocket.
>>
>>30601230
Nah.

Team Eclipse rules supreme.
>>
>>30601138
>...you're right. I'll put her down.
>>
>>30601380
He clearly does not.

Abigail doesn't either.

And we don't really have anything special to hide, do we?
>>
>>30601210
Please do this too.
>>
>>30601393
He probalby wants her dead just as much as Melody and Abby do. She worked to kill Flint.
>>
>>30601384
I don't want to kill her either but which option is that.
>>
>>30601138
>...you're right. I'll put her down.
I'd at least like Auriel to talk with her first.
>>
>>30601404
We're going to need to team up with the angels to beat the demons and Chaos. You need to deal with it.

>>30601405
That's due to Shadow Master being full of shit.
>>
>>30601325
>You aren't going to want more versions of Gravity Sphere when you see what comes after it.
Pretty much states that the already OP power of controlling gravity is nothing compared to what it unlocks.
>>
>>30601412
Ila also agreed that we did the right thing when we didn't kill her before and I doubt that would have changed since.
>>
>>30601427
Melody want her gone because explaining her is complicated. Abby thinks she doesn't need to die. Hem is trying to save her.
>>
>>30601230
Finishing off the shadow tree to try and get Pure Darkness
>>
>>30601138
>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. This will be a lot less cruel than having Auriel get her hands on Jophiel.
>>
>>30601444
Consuming her is less problematic for the alliance than letting her go.
>>
>>30601427
But she wasn't in the process of doing so.

She was already beaten and wasn't constantly trying to murder us.

Executing prisoners isn't a good road you want to go down.
>>
>>30601138
Whichever is the option to not kill her.
>>
>>30601462
Those are the kneejerk reactions. They ill agree that she deserves to die because of her capturing Flint.
>>
>>30601138
>But she knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon.
When she gloated about it, was the last straw.
>>
If we're going to let her live, I want to try to convince her we aren't an evil monster and make her swap sides...

Yeah... I can't see that working.
>>
>>30601412
Agreeing with this Anon; we already left her in the nether to just kind of...stew, I'd rather not just off her when she could still be valuable to us
>>
>>30601484
>You say after letting Flint put a captured prisoner in The Box
>>
>Jophiel waifuers
>>
>>30601138
>...you're right. I'll put her down.
Just got on to see this thread and WHOOOOOO BOY some interesting shit happened.
>>
>>30601460
Yeah that too.

>>30601473
I don't see how, because Jophiel will testify about the orders "Sandalphon" gave her about the light port and where to strike.
>>
>>30601495
Not this. No. Fuck off. Fuck you. NO!.
>>
>>30601498
You mean Fang and Auriel. Fang, who is an admitted asshole, and Auriel, who was terrified for the love of her life.
>>
>>30601498
That was more Auriel's decision, really, we kind of had other shit on our mind at the time
>>
>>30601472

This, a thousand times.

Let's not forget that Auriel will flay the skin from this woman the moment she's in the same room. We can't afford to release her, Sandy will definitely use the torturing on our part for his political gain.

If we eat her, there is no problem anymore. Just another missing Highest in a long list of them.
>>
>>30601489
They do not.

>>30601498
Fang. And he's a terrible person.

>>30601501
If we're going to be in the spotlight, we can no longer afford to be so edgy.
>>
>>30601522
>Sandy will definitely use the torturing on our part for his political gain.
Pretty much
>>
>>30601534
so you rather bring her to the women whos man she sent to death?
>>
>>30601510
We stood there and let them do it. We could have stopped them.

>>30601505
Why would she testify against Sandalphon?
Further, what part of "Sandy wasn't lying when he said he had no idea about the attack" went over your head?

-----

Stop trying to diplomacy an enemy.
>>
>>30601408
okay, wait, can SM clarify this? What does putting her down me? You mean putting her out of the pocket? Euthanizing her? The wording in this context is really iffy
>>
>>30601138
>>She knew about the plan with Donovan. She gloated about it. She's a war criminal, Abigail. We can't have her running back to Sandalphon.

Unpocket her, let her Answer To Auriel The Highest, and decide if she's worht living.

Let her have a second to justify her shit and beg for her life.

Justice is justice, not cruelty. Give her a say.

A brief one.

Then break her wings before consuming her.
>>
>>30601555
>We stood there and let them do it. We could have stopped them.

We were just as terrified and enraged as Auriel at that point.
>>
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WHY DON'T WE JUST EAT HER?

I BET SHE'S TASTY.
>>
>>30601598
Second.
>>
>>30601598
God, those were simpler times.
I miss Darkxis.
>>
>>30601585
Do you think this is an excuse?
>>
it would cost 61 XP to finish the middle tree, probably an extra 20-30 xp on top for anything we haven't unlocked.
>>
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You guys are gonna like this one.

Unlocked:

>Ray of Darkness - Super-condensed shadow magic shoots from you in a ray of darkness. Costs 10 mana; 10 base attack. Extremely accurate even at long ranges. Can hit through enemies.

>Void Ring - annihilate the area around you and warp it directly into the nether. Costs 20 mana. If immediate destruction is resisted, 15 base magic attack. Max range 10 feet; hits all targets in range.

>Eclipse - Forcibly assert the power of darkness to eclipse the sun itself for 2-5 turns, covering a miles-wide area centered on the user. Negates Shadow resistance of all enemies, doubles Shadow magic power, and halves the mana cost of Shadow Magic spells while active. Costs 25 mana, or half current mana, whichever is greater. Only useable once per day.

Revealed:

>Magic Power VI - The final magic power upgrade. Increased mana capacity, mana regeneration rate, mana regeneration cap, and spell potency. 30 EXP.

>Light Resistance

>Void Bomb - Your control of the Void gives you the power to remove offending pieces of Chaos with bursts of magical energy.

>Alt 1 - Launch a void bomb, a spherical projectile of shadow magic that acts as a Void Ring upon striking a target. Mana cost changes the radius of the detonation. 10 mana results in a 1-yard radius. 15 mana grants a 10-yard radius. 35 mana grants a quarter-mile radius.

>Alt 2 - Form a black sphere which unleashes a destructive flurry of hundreds of 3 to 10 yard void bombs in a 60 degree arc over a distance of a quarter mile. Costs 50 mana. Be cautious of friendly fire.

Remaining EXP: 9

-------------
-------------

Vote 1:
>Let Jophiel out of your pocket, placing her onto the bed. She's suffered enough.

Vote 2:
>Abigail, Hemmelus...in this case, Melody is right. It would be better if she disappeared.
>>
>>30601617
2
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
2
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
2
>>
>>30601617

1
>>
>>30601598
I wish it was as simple as that Drakxis.
>>
>>30601617
Wot? No Null Ring?

I'm not sure I understand SM.
>>
We should just take her out for now.
We can always just kill her later if she proves uncooperative.
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
2
>>
>>30601584

We gave her a chance to cooperate. This is what she said.

>>"Hehe...ahahaha...ahh..." Her eyes turn to look at you. "Did you think we'd actually fly him back? Really? A handful of angels can easily make a portal, Nyx. He's long gone." A thin smile peels her lips up. "And I bet you know what that means, don't you?"

Does she seem innocent or uneasy about murdering Flint?

Consume her now. This is Matthel Flint all over again, just fucking eat her and solve the problem.
>>
>>30601617
2
>>
>>30601617
>Void Bomb - Your control of the Void gives you the power to remove offending pieces of Chaos with bursts of magical energy.

>Alt 1 - Launch a void bomb, a spherical projectile of shadow magic that acts as a Void Ring upon striking a target. Mana cost changes the radius of the detonation. 10 mana results in a 1-yard radius. 15 mana grants a 10-yard radius. 35 mana grants a quarter-mile radius.

>Alt 2 - Form a black sphere which unleashes a destructive flurry of hundreds of 3 to 10 yard void bombs in a 60 degree arc over a distance of a quarter mile. Costs 50 mana. Be cautious of friendly fire.

Jesus fucking Christ.
>>
>>30601617

>Let Jophiel out of your pocket, placing her onto the bed. She's suffered enough.
we can kill her late if we need to, but I just want to see the look on her face
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
2
>>
>>30601617
2
>>
>>30601669
Doesn't count.
>>
>>30601617
2
>>
>>30601673
its after Void Bomb.
>>
>>30601617
2
>>
>>30601617
>Shadow Nuke

Yes
>>
>>30601617
2
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
>>Void Bomb - Your control of the Void gives you the power to remove offending pieces of Chaos with bursts of magical energy.
>>Alt 1 - Launch a void bomb, a spherical projectile of shadow magic that acts as a Void Ring upon striking a target. Mana cost changes the radius of the detonation. 10 mana results in a 1-yard radius. 15 mana grants a 10-yard radius. 35 mana grants a quarter-mile radius.
>>Alt 2 - Form a black sphere which unleashes a destructive flurry of hundreds of 3 to 10 yard void bombs in a 60 degree arc over a distance of a quarter mile. Costs 50 mana. Be cautious of friendly fire.
JususfuckingChrist

That second one is an Army Killer.
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601617
I'm not really sure why there's such a debate about this. We've killed less deserving people without a second thought.
>>
>>30601712
That literally makes no sense. Void Bomb is a dead end.
>>
>>30601673
Might be an EXP ability, probably the Shadow Magic completion bonus. Either that, or it's somewhere past Shadow Bomb.
>>
>>30601688
Imagine initiating that attack at CLOSE range to something.

Ha. Hahahah... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAAAH
>>
>>30601617
1
>>
>>30601681
From the looks of it, we've already lost.
They're going to let her go.

What happened to vetoing Shadow's naivety, SM? I though Matthel was the last time we had to watch this stupidity before Shadow hardened the fuck up.
>>
>>30601617
So if Erebus has Void Bomb, does that mean that Hecate has a Spirit Bomb?
>>
>>30601734
Just because we were terrible in the past doesn't mean we have to be terrible forever.
>>
>>30601617
2
>>
>>30601617
Can we get Sock puppet with the 9 remaining exp?
>>
>>30601742
Extreme shotgun effect.
>>
>>30601617

cutting off votes

>>30601746

I'm on the cusp of doing so, but...I hesitate as the ashes of my recent crusade of terror are still glowing hot.
>>
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>>30601748
You're alright anon.
>>
Where the Fuck is Null Ring? Is it after Gravity Sphere?
>>
>>30601673
Why do you think Null Ring is a thing?
It's an Arbiter ability.
>>
>>30601755
See:
>>30601681

You'd think we'd learn from our mistakes.
>>
>>30601738
Because I highly doubt SM would give us a wide-area, no-time-limit Nightblaze as a mana-based ability.
>>
>>30601770
This is fucking Proof that letting her live was a bad idea.
>>
So imagine Tree Gifting the Shadow Magic tree to Ila.

>Double Void Bomb spam
>Where is your army now?
>>
>>30601770
I'd just do it. I voted 1 but I'd be cool with it.
>>
>>30601746
What's naive about thinking that Jophiel isn't exactly going to be a danger to us?
>>
>>30601770
Just do it. You said you would before. Don;t be afriad to put your foot down. Especially if it helps us.
>>
>>30601781
Why the fuck would and Arbiter have an ability we ourselves do NOT have? It makes no sense.
>>
>>30600309
>After some consideration, I feel that half-measures on this are not acceptable; either I need license to do what I want, or it needs to be taken away from me entirely and not even a factor.

Fuck you, SM. Seriously, just fuck you. YOu keep going back on things you say. I voted for 2, and feel like you just didn't solve anything and convinced the players to agree with what you really wanted all along.

>>30598795
>What if I promised not to use it for the rest of this arc?
Goes DIRECTLY against stuff you said in QTG:
That Player Paranoia was not worth the price of a shapeshifting GM mary sue.
and
that she was banished back to the void after being killed.

Anyway: Here's my solution to that: The avatar wasn't just killed, she was defeated and half-converted to energy by Order-nullification, a process analogous to death which banished her to the void.
As a result: She's really weak, and not only did we gain 50 xp - she lost 50xp worth of mass and abilities.
The next time she shows up, she should be properly Elemental-like: a seething, chaotic mass of primal energies because, hey, lets face it: We destroyed her form. That flexible balance of all those delicate energies, all that effort that went into being a stealthy shapeshifter (forgetting for a moment that ORDER is the Quietest Element and she can't use it, so lol) - gone and destroyed.
No more aizen bullshit unless she takes the time and effort to re-learn that power, because we took it away f rom her by eating while she was flaunting in her face.

No more shapeshifting gm fiat do-whatever shit.


I'm also EXTREMELY disappointed over the Nemesis.
(cont)
>>
>>30601770
Warn them about this first.
>>"Hehe...ahahaha...ahh..." Her eyes turn to look at you. "Did you think we'd actually fly him back? Really? A handful of angels can easily make a portal, Nyx. He's long gone." A thin smile peels her lips up. "And I bet you know what that means, don't you?"
At least have them have their guard up.
>>
>>30601770
Please tell me we're still in the magically shielded laboratory. Please tell me that Jophiel can't call for help.
>>
>>30601770
I voted 1 because it would give us some time to figure some stuff out but if keeping her a live is really that bad of an idea I'd be cool with just finishing her off.
>>
>>30601770
So I get to watch diplomacy bite us in the ass. Again.

To be clear, I don't blame you for this, SM. I'm just hurting a little because I thought we were done with this.

Hell, you even only listed kill her options in the original post - they had to write in to propose letting her go.
You did what you could without holding our hand.
>>
>>30601770

>SM confirms 1 was the wrong option

Can we just eat her? Goddamn.
>>
>>30601809
What's intelligent about thinking Jophiel doesn't needlessly complicate the situation and totally helps us in any way whatsoever?
>>
>>30601813
Just fucking leave already, you're obviously not enjoying this entirely free story provided to you by a random stranger on the internet.
>>
>>30601770
>I'm on the cusp of doing so, but...I hesitate as the ashes of my recent crusade of terror are still glowing hot.
Ok. NOW I'm mad. We get fucked over because anons feel bad for this horrible person just because she's a girl and she cried, even though she took Flint and laughed in our face about it.
>>
>>30601821
How would she not be comatose with fear and loneliness by now?

She's been shoved into an isolation tank only worse, for like eleven hours.
>>
>>30601854
I think it's mostly because we feel obligated to Sandalphon to let her live, because he healed Hamil.
>>
SM

CAN YOU CONFIRM IF LEAVING PEOPLE IN THE POCKET ACTS AS A TENDERIZER AND NETS US MORE XP?
>>
>>30601770
Murder Fucking Hobos they said, That was the past us they said, what the fuck did i tell you fuckers.
>>
>>30601854
Be mad at anon, primarily.
Make sure you direct your anger where it is due.
>>
>>30601770
I just want to see her reaction.

After that I'm totally down with eating her. Call it an experiment in the psychological effects of extreme sensory deprivation.
>>