>A non-human steps into the inn
>>29893687>non human>posts a picture of an asian woman and some four eyed subhuman
Rolled 12>>29893987Hi, /trol/
>>29893687>everyone beats the shit out of him and burns him in townsquare.>they all get a medal from the inquisition.Human pride world wide.
There aren't many human inns.I mean, there's elves in the forests, dwarves in the mountains, mermaids in the water, centaurs in the plains, lizard people in the swamps, harpies in the air...Literally every environment has intelligent creatures better suited to them than humans are and just as capable of technological development as humans are.In short, humans are gypsies without a homeland.
>>29893687The guy on the left is pretty hot.
>>29894294He's okay-ish.He needs to learn how to shave, that half mustache thingy looks retarded.
>>29894272Humans, like in our own history take valleys, and costliness.
>>29894272>Human cities for everyone!NOT SO FAST THERE /elfblr/!
>>29894304there aren't any human cities.Anywhere humans went to make cities, other people were already better developed and working harder.
>>29893687If it's the main Inn in my DM's longest-running campaign it's already run by a half-ogre.So what happens is he either buys a drink with cash or he gets thrown through the inn's wall. If he's an elf he's definitely going through.The inn has one wall that they just continually replace with Balsa wood because the publican just keeps throwing annoying customers through it.
>>29894301the various ocean things get the coastlines. And any valley with rivers.Though, the only real competition you have for rolling hills is hobbits and the orcs that occasionally come in to rape the hobbits.
>>29894321I WONDER.WHO COULD BE BEHIND THIS POST.
>>29894332remove humanHuman is scumHuman is pigorcRemove human
>>29894362that's what you get for having fantastical races, anon.
>>29894331None of the sea creatures use coastlines, and certainly don't take rivers, they take areas that are out at sea, or coral reefs, there isn't really any reason for mermaids to take a beach. Creatures that are adapted for being out at sea don't have proper mobility on land, and there isn't enough room inside most rivers for anything near human size.
>>29894369Human's are plains/desert creatures. l2naturalhistory
>>29894386look, you'll stay away from the rivers unless you want to be anally investigated by kappa.
>>29894331Don't you think intelligent life with bodies made for a specific enviroment would get rolled by intelligent life with bodies build to make and carry tools/weapons?Harpies and mermaids would be forced to do hit and run attacks due to their brittle and inability to maneuver on land.
>>29894390so centaurs and thri-kreens, respectively?
>>29894402Way to not make any sense with your post.
>>29894421plains and deserts would be predominated by centaurs and thri-kreen, outcompeting humans.
As far as I care, anything that isn't a Human, Dwarf, or Elf, is an unnatural monstrosity that needs to be purged and exists only to cause trouble for us purer races.
>>29894427How do centaurs and thri-kreen default beat humans?
>>29894395Kappa? them small child sized fuckers that if you spill the water out of the bowl on the top of their head they die? Seriously? And who the hell adds Kappa to a setting?
>>29894455like huns and with resistance checks, respectively.
>>29894395We've formed a symbiotic relationship with them. They try to remove the sticks from our paladin asses, and we get to keep the corpses for various reasons.
>>29894458in any kitchen sink fantasy, there are innumerable creatures that could be in any and all environments.Having any room for humans to exist at all is entirely based around narrative fiat.
>>29894460and let's not even get into how elves and dwarves would have outpopulated humans into nonexistence ages ago given their rate of maturation, reproduction, and death.
>>29894469Stop fucking responding to this faggot.
>>29894467I hate to burst your bubble but there's nothing any amount of centaurs could do against a line of pike men with heavy armor on.
>>29894506how exactly would either of those things come about unless humans were created long before centaurs and thus had a head start on the civilization game?
>>29894501>>29894478I really am starting to have to pretend that these people are low functioning autistics in order to not grind me teeth.
>>29894528>implying centaurs weren't brought about by human wizards fucking horses
>>29894535Hey, it turns out humans would probably be the underdog and not in any position to discriminate in any fantasy setting that doesn't give them a plot fiat protagonist position.
>>29894549well, if centaurs are just a subspecies of humans that fucked horses, then there you go problem solved.
>>29894554You have no basis for that statement. Humans are smarter and more able to co-operate than orcs, breed faster than elves and dwarves and are generally incredibly adaptable as can be seen from reality.
>>29894588anon, you have no basis for humans being any of those things. Wheras I'm going by D&D age progression rules.
>>29894549>centaurs are bronies
>>29893687hey Buddy, welcome to my inn!you are the new applicant for the inn trade right?>>y-yes.I show him around, don't care if he's a daemon.he applied, he gets the job.He will be the best.
Its stupid, this new hurr durr humans suck and have no land trend. Especially since it appears to be based on the mechanics of one iteration of one RPG.
>>29894740it's pretty much based on any setting where fantasy races are better than humans in every way but humans are still mysteriously in charge.which is... a lot of them.
>>29894718>"I'M GARBUKZORK THE PRINCE OF DARKN-">"your dad kicked you out because you're 16000 years old and still have no job?">"...yes"
>>29894718>>29894758I like this guy already, can he run the bar?
>>29894758now look at the op, no wonder they looked at him like that.this guy will make it.
>>29894753Except in most settings I have read that is either not the case or there are perfectly valid reasons. Dwarves and elves are easy and usually use the same explanations every time. Orcs are usually stupid and kill each other more than they kill humans unless a smart, tough one bands them together. Other races, well depends on what the setting has. I am sure plenty of dragons have realised directly ruling humans and being too greedy gets you killed faster. And saying that humans do not get valleys and beaches because the mermen will kill them is retarded.
>>29894775>His bar is actually a demiplane.>Only those in need or those who truly hold out for a inn can truly see it.>Rumor says that he is the one that tough the god of party how to party>The legend tells him being more than a man, that'd he gazed into the abyss, and the abyss did not gaze, instead, fearfully the abyss asked for a beer. And he served that beer, the very first beer he served. He's not a normal human anymore.>He only has one name, the barman.
>>29894801anon, it's so incredibly common in fiction for humanity to be the underdogs saved entirely by narrative whims that an entire humanity fuck yeah counterculture has been formed to explore alternate stories.
>>29894812He said heavy armor, and if its a proper pike wall it has shields. The proper answer for these is javelins and slings.
>>29894834Or heck, just going around them.
>>29894297no the guy on the left not the guy on the right.
>>29894809Last book I read like that was written by a dwarf fanboy and called 'Dwarves'.
>>29894328Sounds autistic, thanks for sharing.
>>29894877Point is I very rarely see this so called 'underdog' thing. And pointing out there is no inherent reason for humans to lack land in a lot of settings is not HFY.
>>29894911humans generally have no set reason to be the guys in charge of things other than narrative ones.
>>29894923What settings are you reading where they are not the only race but are 'in charge'. There are human lands, dwarf lands, elf lands, orc lands, lands full of death and shadow where men fear to tread. Its not a setting wide human empire usually.
>>29894718This sounds very familiar.
>>29894978oh, these ones>>29894252
>>29895007You know he didn't say anything at all about the setting being HFY.Maybe they're a racist minority, like for example radical black power parties on south africa, or without going that far the KKK or the average apalachian redneck.In fact, the only thing you know via that post is that1. It's a human inn2. It's racist.3. The town is racist.
>>29895007That is not a 'setting'. And saying x pride world wide does not actually mean anything.
>>29895025>And saying x pride world wide does not actually mean anything.You lost me.
Oi, gimme a drink ya fooks, and quit yer starin'
I think people forget mountains and oceans exist. There were many cultures completely unable to resist European technology but it took some navigational accidents and better ships to even find some of them. Multiple intelligent races could be separated for centuries or millennia before first contact.
>>29895203C-can I invite you to sit with me?
>>29894549>>29894567But centaurs are wild elves + horses, not humans.
>>29896173Absofookinglutely, if ya make space fer cousin Reggie.
>>29896225Damn, you make hanging out with a set of Aboleth cousins sound awesome. Iirc it's even canon that they like to enjoy life to the fullest.
>>29896222Why would you think of centaurs as wild elf rather than human sourced?
>>29896225>>29896255That's Duke Reginald of Y'AI'NG'NGAH YOG-SOTHOTH H'EE-L'GEB F'AI THRODOG UAAAH to you, you cheeky devils.
>>29896275I'm not following it either. Sure, a female elf would let a horse nail her, but still
>>29893687"Welcome to you, traveller! Please excuse the staring monkeys, a friend of mine keeps them as pets and asked me to look after them for tonight"
>>29894588>breed faster than elves and dwarvesIn pre-industrial times, human repopulation was glacial.How the hell do those alcoholic midgets and knife-ears exist if they are slower than that?
>>29894803>demiplanar barI'm actually going to have this as a random encounter. The patrons will be some of the Players' old characters. The bar will be an open field, with tables/chairs grown out of the ground for each specific patron. There will also be a ring/arena to duel over whatever, as the owner/publican is a Barbarian of Kord. The plane itself is the work of a fairly chill lich.the waitstaff are the lich's dracolich children don't ask. Please don't ask.
>>29896595Longer lives and lower rates of children dying?Human population was slow back then because you were fucking lucky if half your kids survived long enough to hit puberty.
>>29894598>Humans have lived literally everywhere on Earth.>We can traverse deserts, make our home in the deepest jungles, live on mountains.>Boy scouts go out and live for a week in harsh terrain for FUN.>We've been able to survive on fucking Antarctica.>We're researching the construction of UNDERWATER HOTELS. For LEISURE.>anon, you have no basis for humans being any of those things.Holy shit it's like I'm talking to a fucking alien. Have you been to our fair planet, exotic creature?
>>29898246>modern humans can do all these things>s-so that means that middle ages humans could t-too!>D-din't you see the castles in Antarctica?
If only environmental pressures had been different, we could have evolved into something badass
>>29894861Oddly enough, the only good stories with humans not being the dominant race I ever watched or read were Sci-Fi ones. When the music's over by Myra Cakan is probably my favorite in that regard.
>>29898246>Modern humans can do two of the six-seven things listed>This is the perfect opportunity to be a complete retard and ignore that we've been doing the rest since before we even knew what continents were.Nice try you slippery little eel, but your rampant stupidity won't save you this time.
>>29898605You know, besides the North and South pole humans have been living pretty much everywhere constantly for a pretty long time and using pretty basic technology.
Claiming that humans cannot be the major species but should instead by nomads is an oxymoron. The reason humans are so far spread today is that they were nomads.
>>29898246Humans making underwater hotels don't have to deal with crabmen uprisings or mermaimer marauders.
>>29898833Or do they?
>>29898833>yfw a crabman is trying to break foot-thick glass with his claws
>>29898246Watch out anon, your writing style skirted dangerously close to HFY-esque narration.
>>29898682If humans are supposed to be nomads than why are they always the race with numerous kingdoms that can trace their existence back a thousand years.
>>29899536>implying you will even get that farIn literally any fantasy setting, humans are fucked from the getgo.
So basically... What we learned in this thread is that Humanity should not only be the severe underdog of a setting, but they shouldn't exist in the first place since there is a sapient race for every biome (which they exploit to it's fullest extent?)
>>29899652Just about. Even if you just have elves, elves have adapted themselves to every biome whereas humans are just humans. They would be outcompeted into extinction every time.
>>29899652I don't see why humans wouldn't be able to control the plains and fields. They can easily overpower Halflings and are far more intelligent and organized than the monstrous races that roam them.
>>29899621>In literally any fantasy setting, humans are fucked from the getgo.Warhammer 40k, anima beyond weeaboo, warhammer fantasy (everyone is equally screwed), StarCraft, WarCraft, Diablo, Middle Earth, do I need to continue?
>>29899652I'm confused though, I thought the point of humans was not that they excelled at one thing, but that they could be pretty decent at everything, where other races are limited in this regard.
>>29899652Im liking this anti-HFY.Lets call it FYH. For Fuck You, Humanity.>>29899716>They can easily overpower HalflingsUnlikely.>far more intelligent and organizedHobgobs.
>>29899621Except all the ones where they would not be which is a huge number of them. Or by your logic elves, dwarves, halflings and numerous other races are 'fucked'.
>>29899602Oh shut your yap. HFY--supporters and critics alike--are almost as bad as social justice tumblrcunts. Humans are factually adaptable to a variety of environments and live (*low-tech*) in rainforests, deserts, up in high altitudes, and a host of other places. It's not about wagging any species' collective dick, it's listing observable facts that you could go out and see yourself if you weren't superglued to your fucking chair.HFY has fucking tainted the minds of half of this board to the point they think that they have to lie and pretend humans are WORSE than they are.
>>29899652No we did not learn that because that is bullshit and makes absolutely no sense. Humans are incredibly adaptable and have excellent endurance. They breed faster than a lot of races and are smarter and better organised than others. This thread also makes the bizarre assumption that all races can actually get at each other to fight in a primitive state, are we all stuck on Pangea?
>>29899735>but that they could be pretty decent at everything, where other races are limited in this regard.Which is utterly irrelevant because a race that is ultra-competent at living in the tundra is not going to be supplanted by a race that's kinda sorta ok at living in the tundra, but is also kinda sorta ok at living in the desert.
>>29899742>Not YFH>for yeah, fuck humanity.>It's also literally inverse HFY>Edgy as fuck teens in charge of acronyms.
>>29899730>40KOrks, nids, and Chaos>animaWouldnt exactly call that standard fantasy. Dont really know it either, so you could be right.>SCTerrans are literally just a resource to be fought over/burned. Not fantasy, either.>WarcraftSaved by elves. Like, all the time.>DiabloSaved by angels. Before then they, just like in Starcraft, were little more than pawns of a bigger struggle.>MEElves could literally have wiped em out whenever they wanted.I shoulda specified standard fantasy roleplaying settings, though, since that is what I meant.
>>29899797>Humans are incredibly adaptable and have excellent endurance.Yeah.Which is exactly why Humans are able to even exist at all, rather than be some extinct hominid the Elves occasionally talk about before planning a trip to see their pale Snow Elf bretheren.
>>29899829>imlying HFY isnt edgy as fuck teen wank>not liking perfect mirrorsBitch, I bet you don't even Teio Form.
>>29899850>HFY>Not fatneckbeard wank material.You retarded nigger.>fuck you humanity>Mirror of humanity fuck yeah>Not yeah fuck humanity.
>>29899809>Humans live in desert.>They want to live in the tundra.>The Bolgar already live in the tundra and are better at it.>The Humans send raiding parties into the tundra and repeatedly destroy the food stocks and crops of the Bolgar.>Human traders come to the Bolgar and offer them some of their own food in exchange for land to live on.>The Bolgar have no choice to agree.>Humans take up residence in Bolgar cities, immigrants from the desert coming in all the time.>The Bolgar are superior at living in the tundra, but humans have a higher breeding rate, and a high immigration rate as well.>Several generations later the Bolgar are the minority in their own homes.Shut up, dumbass. Not everything's about waving pointy sticks at one another.
>>29894870Careful you don't cut yourself on all that edge.
>>29899850Deliberately making stories where humanity sucks is just as idiotic. Especially when to do it you have to ignore all the advantages humans have. >>29899847I could just as easily say elves should die out due to low birth rates or orcs should be unable to get anything done because of constant infighting and being stupid.
>>29899789>Humans are factually adaptable to a variety of environments and live (*low-tech*) in rainforests, deserts, up in high altitudes, and a host of other places.That is not what I am even getting close to suggesting you stupid human sympathizer. I am suggesting that anywhere a Human tries to "adapt" there is already a race there that is naturally superior in the environment.Oh wow, Humans adapted to living in the rainforest? Say hello to the lizardfolk! Humans adapted to the mountains? Well, I guess they can eek out an existence with the Dwarves and Ogres and Orcs.Oh look, Humans in an urban setting! But... They're... Living... With... Elves, the ones who built it in the first place.Wow. Very Human. Much superior.
>>29899833>Anima>Not the most generic fantasy setting>EVERLOL WHAT'S COPY RIGHT?DUNNO, LET'S COPY EVERYTHING X-D-Spain making a setting.
>>29899899>you stupid human sympathizerWhat's your fursona called, you edgy blademaster?
>>29899876>Implying the Bolgar wouldn't get the idea that those fuckin' desert dwellers are filthy raiders.You're existing in a vacuum where the other races are dipshit fucknuggets and the Humans are scrappy, clever and with their full faculties.
>>29899919Anime isnt generic fantasy, though.In fact, all anime has ever done is shit on fantasy with garbage like donkey elves.
>>29899899>you stupid human sympathizer.Christ dude, what the hell happened to you that you're made at the world?
>>29899927Careful bro, you're getting a bit flustered there.
>>29899899>hurr durr elves are 'naturally' adapted to living in cities>humans did not build any themselvesUnless the gods literally set the elves up with a city from the beginning that makes no sense. And if its that kind of setting then how well a race does without agriculture, armies and cities seems utterly irrelevant. Also dwarves living in a mountain and humans living on it seems more like an obvious co-operation, not a problem.
>>29899936It's about shrewd strategy. The raiders can be passed off as unaffiliated raiders. No race is entirely loyal to one banner after all. And even if the Bolgar didn't buy it for one second, the question now is whether they accept the terms or continue starving to death.
>>29899961>Unless the gods literally set the elves up with a city from the beginning that makes no sense.The Gods usually give Elves superior mental faculties and capabilities that make them basically Human 2.0.Sorta like Hobgoblins, which are explicitly superior to humans and live in the same areas they traditional live.
>>29899941>Anime>Not generic fantasy.That's because the east does everything better than the west you human sympathizer.>tfw you will never live in japan.
>>29899986You're assuming that the Humans have raiders and traders to spare considering that they not only live in a fucking desert, but they're more than likely under constant siege from the various desert-dwelling races that are naturally suited to the biome.You know, because if Humans are smart enough to do the "raid than immigrate" idea, why can't people who are naturally better suited at it?
>>29893687Every inn in my world has at least some members of the PHP (php hypertext preprocessor lol jk Palandins of Human Pride). So he is gonna get have a rough time .
>>29899994What setting are you referring to here? I think the only place I've seen that is in Paolini's books, and those... well...Usually elves tend to be more in tune with nature and living in harmony with it, but humans are superior at conquering nature and constructing something of their own.
>>29900029...Why would any other race DO that, though? First of all, you've assumed that being better at surviving in an environment makes them better warriors, or diplomats, or traders. We haven't established ANY of that, and with the exception of maybe orcs, all three of those are usually the domain of humans. Second of all, the Bolgar over in the tundra have no reason to try the same thing on the humans since they can't live in the desert. They would shrivel and fucking die.
>>29900085>...Why would any other race DO that, though?For the same reason Humans are trying to do a meticulous, multi-generational take-over of the tundra.
>>29900029>You know, because if Humans are smart enough to do the "raid than immigrate" idea, why can't people who are naturally better suited at it?You're entire argument up to this point was that all the other species were better at living in their respected biomes. That sentence just proved you want nothing more then for humans to be shit at everything, it's like a bizarre reverse HFY, and just as retarded. I suggest you find out why you're so angry as humanity as whole and resolve your issues, instead of coming on an image board and ranting like this, because all I'm getting from what you're saying is "Humans are pieces of shit", and all this tells me is that you've had something shitty happen to you that you're letting seethe out..
>>29900085>First of all, you've assumed that being better at surviving in an environment makes them better warriors, or diplomats, or traders.And you're assuming it doesn't.>We haven't established ANY of thatAnd yet here you are trying to establish Humans as strategic masterminds adept at the conquest/subjugation of other races for reasons.
>>29900095But Humans are adaptable. They can live wherever they want. Other races are super-good at living in a specific place, but if they're that specialized then that would by definition make them poor at living anywhere else. Even if they were motivated purely by spite, they would fail and die in their endeavors because they're invading a biome they have no capacity to survive in. It'd be like invading Russia in the winter.
>>29900122>That sentence just proved you want nothing more then for humans to be shit at everything, it's like a bizarre reverse HFY, and just as retarded.You're really getting fanny flustered at my behavior, anon. I'd recommend taking a pill made for chill, or some form of masturbation to relieve the strain I'm causing in your groin region.I'm not saying humans are shit at everything, I'm saying that everything they're ok in, other races are better at. Humans living in the forest will naturally be out-competed with races designed to optimize the forest, while the same could be found with plains.Humans aren't bad, they're just... Inferior.
>>29900136>but if they're that specialized then that would by definition make them poor at living anywhere else.Why would they need to live anywhere else?Point is Humanity is doomed because everywhere they go and try to settle, there is another race already *thriving* there, and wouldn't take too kindly with an upstart.Ok, maybe they'll take in Humans as quirky slaves, or a pet race. But Humans actually gaining any sort of prominence? Ha, in your dreams.
>>29900125Let's stop here for a moment and establish some things right now.Why do you insist that humans have to suck? You're denying facts that are about humans. Not in a fantasy setting. Here, on Earth, we can observe these things about the adaptability and specialization of humans. They adapt VERY well to live in any environment. Take a look at the pigmentation of our skin based on the harshness of sunlight. Or sickle-cell anemia in environments with malaria.Explain to me why you want to ignore this so badly because "Muh fantsay races are better"Secondary topic: Let's make the Bolgar an actual race, people.
>>29900202>Why do you insist that humans have to suck?Its not humans suck, its that everything else is exponentially better than them.Swords don't suck, but nukes are just that much better.
>>29900202>You're denying facts that are about humans. Not in a fantasy setting. Here, on Earth, we can observe these things about the adaptability and specialization of humans. They adapt VERY well to live in any environment. Take a look at the pigmentation of our skin based on the harshness of sunlight. Or sickle-cell anemia in environments with malaria.We're not talking about the real world, anon. We're talking about a fantasy world inhabited by fantasy creatures explicitly designed to live pretty fucking well in their biome.
>Why would they need to live anywhere else?Okay, at least I know for a fact you're a troll now. Read this again, buddy. >>29900095You're making (shitty) arguments and then just leaving them behind like shattered spears. You're literally the HFY guys but in reverse. You keep saying humans are "inferior", but refuse to give any reason why or how they could be inferior. You keep saying "other races", but have no examples or even hypothetical ones.You're just here to be a cunt, so fuck off. Next you're going to say, "You're so flustered, anon!"
>>29900202>Why do you insist that humans have to suck?That's not what I'm saying at all, my fellow Sapien of the Homo family.I'm saying that other races are just *better* than humans. Humans aren't weaker, Creature X is just better.
>>29900224Show me a creature that is "designed to live pretty fucking well in their biome." Show me how humans could not force them out with their established strengths. Humans are consistently superior in areas of diplomacy and trade in fantasy settings, so stop saying "We're not in the real world, we're in a fantasy setting... but we're still pretending humans are even shittier than presented in fantasy."Stop trying to worldbuild with your fetish.
>>29900254Well anon, my man of grace and intelligence. I am of course trying to use the logic posited by those who came before me, such as >>29894272.If Humans exist, they are a wandering people, only capable of erecting ephemeral kingdoms or scrape the glory off of civilizations created by races wholly suited for that particular biome.
>>29900198>Point is Humanity is doomed because everywhere they go and try to settle, there is another race already *thriving* thereWhy do you keep throwing up this baseless nonsense. Do you think all fantasy settings have dozens of intelligent races to fill every little niche?
>>29900300>Show me a creature that is "designed to live pretty fucking well in their biome." Show me how humans could not force them out with their established strengths. Humans are consistently superior in areas of diplomacy and trade in fantasy settings, so stop saying "We're not in the real world, we're in a fantasy setting... but we're still pretending humans are even shittier than presented in fantasy."Alright, explain to me how Humans living in the plains are meant to outcompete Orcs, centaurs, and hobgoblins.
>>29900314>only capable of erecting ephemeral kingdoms or scrape the glory off of civilizations created by races wholly suited for that particular biome.Holy shit. You just turned this into a That Guy thread with a single sentence.
>>29900169>You're really getting fanny flustered at my behavior, anon.New flash at 11, people can disagree think you're retarded without getting angry, in fact, that's how normal people tend to behave. Now, I want you to take a step back and look at what you wrote. >I'm saying that everything they're ok in, other races are better at.Alright, so humans aren't shit, they're simply okay, while everything else is marginally better. I...uh, okay. >Humans aren't bad, they're just... Inferior.Are you sure? Are you 100% sure you're not saying humans aren't shit?Now to address my previous post, you've repeatedly stated that humans would be out-competed all biomes by races better adapted, then when confronted with a way for humans to take advantage of another species said "Why wouldn't another species better adapted to taking over other species do that?" which is a valid question, why the fuck would they do that if they have their own biomes to live in? Then I thought to myself, you just want humans to not have any form of spotlight at all.
>>29900321>Do you think all fantasy settings have dozens of intelligent races to fill every little niche?Most of them do.See, now you're the one trying to create a hypothetical setting where Humans have a chance at developing anything resembling a civilization.
>>29900341Sounds more like you're incapable of accepting the fact Humans are, in fact, pretty shitty in high fantasy settings barring author bias (after all, gotta root for your own kind, right?)
This "humans are fucked" thing seems to hinge on the idea that literally every single habitable location was already settled by something else long before humans even find them. And that the habitats themselves are so fucking tiny that any two groups will invariably be forced to drive the other into extinction/exile before civilizations even have a chance to develop.
>>29900348No, the majority of fantasy settings have a small number of races. Even if an RPG book has more most are never used or are of minor importance.Also you keep trying to pretend the entire world is one big flat island with no oceans or other barriers. It does not matter how good race X is if its on continent Y hundreds or thousands of miles away. Nobody from there will see humans until one group or the other has the ability to cross an ocean safely.
>>29900381>And that the habitats themselves are so fucking tiny that any two groups will invariably be forced to drive the other into extinction/exile before civilizations even have a chance to develop.Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals, nigga. In fantasy, humans are the neanderthals.
>>29900381>And that the habitats themselves are so fucking tiny that any two groups will invariably be forced to drive the other into extinction/exile before civilizations even have a chance to develop.That kind of happens even in the real world, anon. Why wouldn't it happen here?
>>29900332...Okay.>Orcs>Savage warriors, usually nomadic.>Hunter-gatherers by necessity, since they don't stick around in areas long enough to grow crops.>Humans use scouting parties to observe and monitor positions and moving patterns of orcs.>In the weeks before they enter an area, humans gather up all the berries they can, and relocate the animals within their cities.>Orcs starve. Even if they try to raid human cities, turtling up with walls and archers will keep out the increasingly starved and desperate raiders.>Orcs are forced to leave the plans in search of food.>Centaurs>Strong warriors and agile, but four legs are difficult to move in enclosed/delicate spaces with.>Incapable of finesse in their architecture. >The Orcs begin raiding the Centaurs in search of food, since their settlements are less defensible than the Humans'.>The Humans approach the centaurs and offer an alliance: they live in Humans cities and share their safety and food. In return Centaurs serve as their scouts monitoring the Orcs, and as skirmishers in their armed forces.>Multi-generational friendship established.>Hobgoblins>Vicious, individualistic and sneaky.>Too cruel to form alliances with anyone.>Humans, in alliance with the Centaurs, wipe them out.Fucking done. Happy, anon?
>>29900361You are the one who for some reason is pretending humans are worse than every other intelligent race which is rarely if ever the case. I have never read a story or RPG book where that is how the world works.
>>29900433>I have never read a story or RPG book where that is how the world works.That is because, as I said (but you were clearly not listening,) authors have a bias towards throwing Humans numerous bones because HFY.
>>29900450>because HFY>I'm totally not ignoring logic to do the polar opposite.Stop giving elves and dwarves unrealistic advantages with your author's bias, anon.
>>29900415Are you fucking serious
>>29900423How would Humans be able to firmly establish themselves before the Orcs, hobgoblins or centaurs wipe them out?
>>29900450No you are the person who is biased. Because you are for no reason whatsoever assuming humans will be worse than every other intelligent race if the author is 'fair'. And there is no reason to think this would be the case.
>>29900423>>Hobgoblins>>Vicious, individualistic and sneaky.You are fucking retarded. Hobgobs are like fantasy nazis, not individualistic. They are organized as fuck, enslave other races and conscript them, and would rule the plains.
>>29900481...What makes you assume that humans are the newcomers? I don't remember fantasy stories where orcs, centaurs, or hobgoblins were ancient and storied races that walked the earth when it was young.>>29900456Thanks for forfeiting the argument.
>>29900481Why do you assume that they are gonna attack humans as soon as they appear?
>>29900491How? Who are they conscripting? The savage asshole Orcs? The Human-Centaur alliance? Hobgoblins on their own ain't much of a threat, bub.
>>29900475Ah, so you're upset with Dwarves and Elves having unrealistic advantages yet you're content with giving them to Humans?Heh, shows how reasonable you are.>>29900487Do I have to repeat myself yet again? I'm not saying humans will be worse, I'm saying other races are just better at certain things.
>>29900491Don't know what you have been reading. Whenever I see hobgoblins in fantasy they are either nomads or barely civilised raiders.
>>29900502Humanity doesn't make friends easy. Our history is fucking littered with cases of murdering everyone over minor differences.Furthermore, we have nothing to offer the centaurs that the Hobgoblins couldnt offer them better.In fact, you should flip hobgobs and humans, since humans are more individualistic and cruel than hobgoblins.
I wish fa/tg/reasy/pol/acks would fuck off.
>>29900529That's kind of what Orcs do, not to mention the thrill of trying out the women of a new race.Wait! I can see Humans dominating the plains now.As Half-Orcs.
>>29900551Just admit we're right and you're wrong and we will.
>>29900532>The savage asshole Orcs? If orcs main drawback is their lack of organization, then someone giving them a strong military backbone makes them fucking horrifying.>The Human-Centaur alliance?Wouldnt exist, since humans are treacherous creatures and the centaurs would likely side with hobgobs before them.
>>29900535You have yet to state which races are 'better at certain things'. Especially since most fantasy settings do not have an alphabet of intelligent races living in every single specific habitat so there would be plenty of space for the few there are at first. And you have also not stated what 'unrealistic advantages' humans have. Everyone here is pointing out advantages humans actually have. You also consistently ignore the posts pointing out there are almost certain to be multiple continents that will separate races for centuries or millennia.
>>29900556Why aren't the other races wiping out the orcs then? Why aren't the orcs wiping out the centaurs?
>>29900202>question for you, why does every single other race be specifically for one thing only and not able to advance like humans.What makes you think that my sea-faring Orcs, centaurs trading with Elves, Great Elven Houses who wage constantly war at each other when not at war with some other race, nor my nomad Dwarves who believe in strenght of Fire and Steel couldn't beat your humans. Then theres Goblins in the mountains, breeding, mining and raiding near by races, Ogres take refuge near coasts so that they can mediate between Elves and Orcs, while using heavy armour and claymores... My fantasy races can and will grind humans in to dust if needs be.
>>29900578There was no reason for Cro-Magnons to wipe out Neanderthals, but they still did. Not even necessarily intentionally, they were just better than them in every way. Both existed at the same time and I think the Neanderthals were even slightly older, but only Cro-Magnons went on to become modern man.
>>29900535Alright, I'm done wasting my time with you. You've done nothing but spew "Humans a shit" and when asked to back your claims you've turned around and demanded them to back their claims, and when they've done so, you've completely ignored them. You are one damn successful troll, possibly on of the most successful trolls I've ever seen, keep on keeping on you greasy bastard you.
>>29900587>centaurs would likely side with hobgobs before themDo you know what hobgoblings are?
>>29900601Dwarves are tougher and better smithsElves are more agile and magical as well as disease resistant, which is a huge fucking dealOrcs are strongerHobgoblins are more organizedHobbits are more friendlyGnomes are smarterDragons are greedierReally, humans aint got shit.
>>29900652Do it.Pls.I can't leave until you do.Every moment I exist is agony.
>>29900535Oof, that one hurt to read. It's like I'm in an actual hobby shop talking to someone wearing actual fake elf ears.>I'm saying other races are just better at certain things.You can't just assume that other races will be better at certain things, yet worse at NOTHING. This is you crafting a Mary Sue race, and a shitty uninspired one at that. You haven't even described who they are or what makes them so special. Just that they are, because "Humans are teh shit.">Ah, so you're upset with Dwarves and Elves having unrealistic advantages yet you're content with giving them to Humans?Mm, those words you're putting in my mouth are delicious, may I have another bite? All I said was that you would have to give other race the same advantages you *claim* humans are giving to have an argument. But by doing that you would also invalidate said argument.>>29900615So your super-special snowflake races that you've specifically crafted to be great at everything can beat humans who you've done no such thing for? Gee, how surprising.>>29900550Hobgoblins, as your side has described, are Nazis. How are they less cruel than Humans? If anything it sounds like Centaurs would be treated as second-class citizens, so they'd much prefer a more equal opportunity (even if borne of necessity and convenience) with the Humans than ever go to the other side.Besides, Humans are diplomats. It's kind of what we're told we are in most every fantasy setting.>>29900587^See above as the reasons why Orcs AND Centaurs would hate the fuck out of hobgoblins.Everyone seems to assume that all other races gang up on humans "just because", which is a frightening lapse in logic that tells me the kind of people I'm arguing with.
>>29900653>These hobbits, they're too damn friendly!>No, I don't want anymore tea, please god no!>We've been routed! Fall back, Fall back!
>>29900706Its like invading Canadians. You would just feel terrible about it and then go home after enjoying way too many breakfasts for one day.
>>29900653Dwarves and elves are not competing with humans for land in most settings, orcs are stupid and disorganised, hobgoblins do not exist in all settings and are often far more stupid and less organised than humans in others, being 'friendly' does not stop people raiding your land, gnomes also rarely if ever compete with humans directly assuming they even exist in the setting and being 'greedy' is not a beneficial trait when it will greatly increase your risk of being killed.
>>29900619>There was no reason for Cro-Magnons to wipe out NeanderthalsThat's just a fucking theory though, that's even highly debated, this is a strawman argument
>>29900690>so they'd much prefer a more equal opportunity>with humansOh thats rich. I know refer you to the OP of this fucking thread for how humans treat nonhumans.
>>29900743In fact, isn't the current theory that in areas where they interacted, the two species crossbred?
>>29900758So what you're saying.Is that.Humans would no longer exist.But Half-Elves and Half-Orcs and all the other Half-X's would inherit the planet.
>>29900752Humans are individualistic, you said it yourself. There are sinners and saints on our side. But hobgoblins? They're organized to a T, and Fascists to an F. No right-minded race would have anything to do with them, since they're guaranteed to get the short end of the stick with them. At least with humans, there's a chance you'll meet a good-hearted one.
>>29900779No, that's not what he said at all, that's you putting words in his mouth.
>>29900797Well someone used a Cro-Magnon/Neanderthal argument to say one would annihilate the other.And then they brought up crossbreeding and intermingling.So really, Humans would settle a place and eventually die out because their offspring with the natives have all the advantages of both native and Human, but none of the drawbacks.
>>29900690>So your super-special snowflake races that you've specifically crafted to be great at everything can beat humans who you've done no such thing for? Gee, how surprising.Ahahahaaa! Oh god. You're serious.So here comes totally normal human race that has never had any competing races on its own world aka Earth, starts at same line with others, suddenly gains ability to outbreed, outsmart every other race there is. Jesus, Buddha and Odin help me, you think humanity would and could work the same if there'd be other sapient races on the planet?If anyone, its you who wants to make humanity snowflake or create a no-fun zone.
>>29900758european and asian do have Neanderthal dna
>>29900792You know where you stand with a hobgoblin. They're upfront about their racism. Humans, though. Humans are shifty little cunts who will stab you in the flank and grind you into glue the moment you've outlived your usefulness.
>>29900819>If anyone, its you who wants to make humanity snowflake or create a no-fun zone.Because he is not a dumbass who thinks humans should be exterminated or enslaved before they even have farms?
>>29900817Why would the humans die out? You need to explain this kinda stuff if your trying to make a point
>>29900864Right, because the Neanderthal existed up to agriculture before being wiped out.
>>29900817>That's you assuming the other non-human race wouldn't die out as well.Crossbreeding to further adapt their offspring is just one more advantage that humanity has. In terms of sheer genetic competition, the humans win since their offspring almost always end up "Best parts of humanity like intellect and empathy combined with the kickass specialization of whoever they boned.">>29900819>no-fun zoneYeah, the one who is saying that it logically makes no sense that humanity dies out because everything is just so super neat and cooler is the guy in the no-fun zone.
>>29900758The theory is that Cros were the better competitors and drove most of the Neands extinct, but they also interbred as well.
>>29900856You don't seem to understand, hobgoblins are still worse, No race would ever side with them. They are bad news 100% of the time, where humans aren't.Do you even know what a hobgoblin is?
>>29900909>They are bad news 100% of the time, where humans aren't.>where humans aren't.Thats rich.
>>29900856Be a Jew in the 1940s, and see how your argument looks.>Hey, the Nazis wanna kill us all, but at least they're up front with it! You know where you stand with them. You can't trust them Americans though. They might betray you, and hand you over to the *Nazis* or something.See how stupid that sounds?
>>29900923aren't we the edgy one?
>>29900949Humans are less like americans and more like the USSR
>>29900923Who hurt you, anon? Who turned you into such a knife-swinging edgemaster?
>>29900970Why is it every time someone tries to question human supremacy in any fantasy setting ever, they're called edgy blademasters?It's almost like you feel threatened, anon.
>>29900864I never even implied such.I asked why would humanity somehow gain super-nazi übermensch traits to overcome all the difficulties that every other fantasy race would have, and be better at everything.The thing here is that he/she anonymous implies that the humanity is inherently better than anything, at everything.And comes to my setting, humanity has towns, cities and is waging actively war against itself and other races. Not even the other guy did say anything about humans being enslaved nor being exterminated, just that they has to fight for their living space and right, just like everyone else.
>>29899994Posts like these is what spawned the use of the term "autism" as an insult.
>>29900980>It's almost like you feel threatened, anon.Yes, you have me quivering in my boots with fear as you seem to transcend your own humanity with the power of believe, the unimagined glint of fear in my eye reflecting off the fearsome beast you have now become.
>>29900980no you just have an argument full of strawmen and expect people to agree with you
>playing sort of pirate campaign>Gnome Rogue>Fire Elf Swashbuckler or something>Catfolk Fighter>Human Fighter>Human Fighter is a negro>entire party always talking about this wondrous fact>wonder how he's different from other Humans>Fire Elf gets different stuff, so same must be true for Black Human, right?
>>29900984>and be better at everything.Have you even read this shit of a thread? No one's claimed that humans are supermen. In fact, people have claimed the opposite and the rebuttal was that humans are pretty decent at everything, where as other races excel at particulars. This would give humans a natural advantage.
>>29901075>This would give humans a natural advantage.Not really.>Mermaids are naturally built for aquatic warfare>Humans: Eh, we're alright at it I guess>Winner is obvious Humans because they know how to fight in a desert.
>>29901133Here's the thing, if they didn't want to die, the smart human would take the mermaids out of it's natural environment. Perhaps through some sort of fishing net, or if the mermaids come upon land, through arrows, spears, or maybe a trap. If they don't, why would they even need to bother each other in the first place? This whole thread is under the assumption every race is a bunch of genocidal maniacs.
Elves are like 80 cm long. humans are the Ice giants.Captcha: Nordic the
>>29901075Then how come humans are only ones at that.My point still stands, that in the fantasy setting, not only humans should be decent at everything, so should other races too.Yes, centaurs are better at running, and are more powerful than humans, elves live longer and are better magicians perhaps, dwarves genrally are better smiths. Wuestion remains, why should humanity have gains of being decent at everything, jack-of-all trades where no other race couldn't?
>>29901075The argument is that while a jack of all trades is better than a master of one, it's not better than a hundred masters of different things.
GLORY TO THE HUMAN RACE. REMOVE ELF remove elf propaganda scum, glory to human, all others must go, dwarf can stay, dwarf wish only to mine in mountain
>>29901224>Humans are fantasy Slavs>Humans live in fantasy BalkansIt all makes sense now.
>>29901038He gets +10feet of movement wile running away with a bike, and morale bonus, if there watermelon or chicken involved.
>>29894272Really. And when's the last time you used a spell produced and cataloged by a dwarf? An elf, perhaps? When's the last time you used harpy armor?Tell me, have you ever purchased jewlery made from a mermaid's hand?I didn't think so. Subhuman scum.
>>29901261Also battle stance that allows him to shoot sideways with crossbows.
>>29901211Okay, alright. Every race is a jack of all trades now, you happy? What have we accomplished? Nothing. Although, I'm having a hard time imagining centaurs living in a stone city, and dwarves as pirates.>>29901218When did all the races team up against humans?
>>29901301Dwarves have flying ships, powered by coal. Balance bonus has good synergy.
>>29901301>When did all the races team up against humans?They didn't. It's just that there's a master of one for every environment, and that's who you've got to beat if you want to compete for resources in that area. A jack of all trades can beat a master of one by taking advantage of their weaknesses; in this case, by being able to live in areas that the other can't. The problem arises when there's something better than you at living in a given area, FOR every area.
>>29901211>>29901218The problem is you're assuming that every race out there is completely hostile to humanity and refuses to even consider cooperation. That is the only way in which humans become the nomadic outcast shits you seem to insist they must be.(Azrael, you haven't said that, but take a look at everything else your side's been saying.)The problem with your argument Az, is that you're saying "Humans are jacks-of-all-trades, so my races are too. Except they're not because they're also better at tons of things." This implies specialization of a species towards a certain lifestyle that would detract from other areas.Centaurs are stronger and faster, but clumsier in small spaces, and less dexterous. Their art and construction would suffer as a result. Humans would simply have more well-built settlements, which can mean a lot in war, as well as in peace. (Impressing rival kingdoms into treaties.)Elves would live longer and be better magicians, but with such long lives boredom is bound to set in. Elves would likely be very apathetic once they've had centuries to burn out their passions, and simply not care enough to act against another race. The creative spark dies from apathy as well, and even if they're superior with magic their ability to innovate new spells would suffer. Eventually more tech-focused nations, or even more short-lived magical ones would overtake them.Dwarves are better smiths, but what grows beneath a mountain? Their diets would be dull and lacking in many nutrients and variety. They would need a nation who could trade them items to sate their appetites, and use their craftsmanship to buy such things. Humans are usually quite capable farmers, so they could fill that niche, and even gain the smithing of their new friends the dwarves from the dealHumans are not "better" at anything but seeing their weaknesses and using the environment or their friends to fill them in. That is why they would survive in a fantasy setting.
>>29901378>It's just that there's a master of one for every environment,In which settings?
>>29901301Jeez, did eat glass shards or something for breakfast.For your ranting for humans, you have yet make a good point how humans as decent guys could be better than every other race, even if they excel at one thing over humans. You know, lets make this layman comparison ala you. You are human, that gym going guy next door benchpressing 300kg's and knowing tae kwon do is and orc, still that doesn't make him inherently stupid at other fields of life, while he is bigger and stronger than you. In fact, should he be race of its own, and you your own, you would most likely die out.
>>29901453You, thanks.First "decent" reply, making valid points.Thanks for that.I wont make counter-points now.
>>29901499No matter how big and strong that other guy is, all you have to do to even the odds is go down to the nearest shop and purchase a gun.It's not all down to biology. There are shortcuts that humans can take to remove the gap in "ability" between them and other races. And if you think humans won't take those shortcuts, you're crazy.And it doesn't even work the other day. The benchpressing Orc could already tear you apart with his bare hands, so nothing is done in his favor if he, too, purchases the gun. You'll both die to a bullet just as easy.
>>29901562Thank you, I'm glad we could reach something of an agreement.I didn't expect any part of this thread to end so cordially, to be honest.
>>29901453>The problem is you're assuming that every race out there is completely hostile to humanity and refuses to even consider cooperationIn any variety of prehistory that is a perfectly accurate assumption. The concepts of diplomacy and fairness developed fairly late in human history and their acceptance took (is taking) even longer. Even Athens, famed for their ideas of democracy and justice, were perfectly willing to intentionally toss both ideas out the window when they felt like wiping out another city-state (and gave that city a lecture on how justice is inherently reliant on the virtue of the strong while doing so, sending the clear message that might not only makes right, but allows you to define what "right" means as well.)>>29901459The "everything and the kitchen sink" hypothetical the thread seems to be using.
>>29901453>The problem is you're assuming that every race out there is completely hostile to humanity and refuses to even consider cooperation.Judging by OPs header, the converse is certainly true
>>29901499>Jeez, did eat glass shards or something for breakfast.The glass of shards I ate was arguing with the retard earlier whose points I refuted several times which he then completely ignored and kept ranting.
>>29900532>Hobgoblins on their own ain't much of a threat, bub.They're literally stronger and quicker than humans, m8, plus they're sneakier and more fascistical.Hobgoblins > Humans
>>29901619I'm willing to argue nearly everything, and also willing to see other ones points, if they are made well.Simple as that, its just that theres too big of a risk here to be shot down in flames if you make statement or counter-point that most wont accept.
>>29901301>When did all the races team up against humans?They dont have to, they just push them out of their own territory. Humans are like gypsies.
>>29900752>every setting is the same>humans suck non-humans r cool>blah blah blah I'm a tremendous faggotFriendly reminder that most high fantasy settings humans are the most abundant race because of their culture not hating sex and their ability to survive on very little food. Friendly reminder that most non-humans are isolationist (gnomes, elves, dwarves, fucking everyone) and practice culture instead of technology.Friendly reminder that anyone saying otherwise is a faggot.
>>29901859>sneaking dwarves in thereFuck off, you furfag dorfwanker
>>29900879>implying Neanderthal was sapient>implying Neanderthal was anything higher than goblin or kobold tier intelligenceI bet you cry when kobold villages are wiped out too, you scum.
>>29893687Rollin' for CHA.
>>29901859>>implying humans aren't the social paragons of the worldThat would be hobbits.
>>29900949The nazis weren't up front about it at all. Many jews had complete faith in their country and believed the lies that the nazis told them (this is for your protection, other vague excuses to remove people from their homes). The populace pretty unanimously gave them the benefit of the doubt, because such an atrocity was unthinkable at the time. After all, no one heard of or spoke about the Armenians. Humans are shifty shits who will connive their way to the top.
>>29902122But they're so sweet around children!
>>29902042Neanderthal brain capacity was larger than human, shape was very similar. Only real disadvantage we know they had was that they would not have had the human range of speech, do to bone structure, and that we know an important gene for speech is missing from their genetics. They may have had an equal understanding of language that we have, but they were not psychically as capable of producing it.We also have evidence that they were stronger and more resilient than humans, but required more calories.
>>29894272>Wandering Gypsies without a homeland>Humans are mongolians>Elf InnI doubt it>Dorf innDoubt>Mermaid InnAn underwater inn? How do they sleep? They tie themselves to the roof?>Centaur InnI'm assuming that It has extra wide doors like those Handicapped Bathrooms?>Swamp InnEverybody gets malaria. Plus it's hot and stuffy at night.>Harpy innA flying inn? That's innpossible. Or it's a tree.
>>29901974http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_StoneFriendly reminder that you points are not only options there
>>29902184>speech is the primary necessity for society and growth into sapient species>neanderthal doesn't have speech>"What do you mean Neanderthal wasn't sapient?"
If all those races are better than humans how come they don't exist?/topic
>>29902191>>Humans are mongoliansThats orcs.
>>29902234Because they already left this shitty planet and fucked off to space.Its why so many space operas tend to have space elves.
>>29902204That's why I said most fantasy settings. There are many settings in which humans are the minority and the settings are quite good. But here's the thing: You have to have a fucking reason for it. There are people in this thread who seem to think that no matter what every human in every established setting should have been written out of the lore entirely because it's "unrealistic".That's fucking stupid. The people arguing this are fucking stupid. If there's going to be something happening there damn well better be a reason, and "b-but not-humans are just so COOL!" is not a good goddamn reason.This shit is insulting as a GM and as an author.
>>29902270Im arguing just because its fun to disrupt HFY threads. I actually find dwarves lame as fuck.
>>29902254I like Outsider's space elves. They're like Rome. But elves. And female. And in space. And that's hot.
>>29902307>Not understanding the difference between HFY and "Humans aren't literally the shittiest thing ever"No anon, YOU are the autistic.
>>29902209No they had speech, they couldn't say this sentence, but they could speak. The range of sounds they could produce is much smaller than what we can, but they could produce a certain range. They may have been limited in what they could communicate, but they likely could make thousands of different words as a top end limit. Though a few hundred different words is more reasonable.
>>29899652yep, that's absolutely it.Humans wouldn't exist in any fantasy setting that has all the reaces start simultaneously.
>>29902335>thinking I honestly think thatIts called devils advocate, my boy.
>>29899797generalists lose to specialists in the environment the specialist is specialized on.Which is all of them, as there are specialists for every environment with -just as much- adaptability as humans, due to being just as intelligent as humans or MORE intelligent.
>>29902307Don't get me wrong, HFY threads are annoying as shit and usually only just wankery as to how "hoomins r so cool".But still, some of the others in this thread. SOME OF THE OTHERS, IN THIS THREAD, MUH GOD.>>29902370>thousands of different words>few hundred wordsHoly shit do you not into language at all? Latin is one of the most basic languages around and it had a higher vocabulary than that.Latin was also a fucking pathetic language and aside from being the building blocks of modern latin languages, is pretty useless
>>29902379No, it's called being a troll with a hard-on for pointless conflict. An actual devil's advocate would have made arguments, not gone "Hurr, non-humans are best because humans are worst because non-humans are best!"
>>29902422Way to ignore actual arguments like >>29902394
>>29900395every barrier is -also- populated by a race.like dwarves in mountains.And entire undersea ecologies with numerous intelligences in the oceans.
>>29902372If all the races started simultaneously in a setting there'd be such a massive competition for resources and land that it's quite feasible that humanity would come out on top. It's equally as likely as them dying out.
>>29902490There is no logic to anything you just said.
>>29901859it's hobbits and gnomes that would conquer the world on technology, inferior human scum.also goblins.
>>29902435>Thinking kobolds, orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, centaurs, non-high elves, drow, or mermaids are as smart as humans.It makes a LOT of assumptions to become a valid argument. A lot of pretty incorrect assumptions.
>>29902394Regardless of intelligence or adaptability it's the culture that's a main hindrance on most non-humans. Elves are preservationist and tend to hate or not want to use fire/metal at all, making them ineffective at going past the first stages of agriculture. Dwarves prefer being inside mountains and eating subterranean plants, and are also isolationist. Centaurs are usually nomadic and warlike, making them no better than filthy goblins. Basically, unless the non-humans decide to behave like humans, they're inferior by shooting themselves in the foot. If they act like humans, why not just call them humans?
>>29902406Its still speech. As well that is individually sounding words of a rather short length, basically they had fewer syllables they could produce(though what I read about it had conjecture about the limit of words they would be able to produce). As well all of this has to do with the vocal cords, and doesn't include anything about clicking, which massively increases the number of words they could produce.
>>29902270I agree, there needs to be a reason, but that's GM's job. It is his duty to write a setting or explain what goes in this particular world people are playing.And as far as we go arguing about humans as whole, I cant but hold my breath and hope that both sides of this particular thread find way to express their thoughts without being too sarcastic towards different opinions concerning this topic.Non-human setting is cool, setting where humans are not the main protagonist is cool, what we need to find, is the golden road here.Just trying to apply that thinking where humans would behave and evolve in fantasy world with other sapient races as it has now is just ignorant.This goes also both ways, humanity would force elves, dwarves, orcs and some such create alliances, trade, learn more, keep up with armies, most likely wars would be more frequent, rifts between intra-species coalition, as much as inter-species.
>>29902553so, what you're saying is humans win because they're the only ones who have the narrative saying they act in their own best interests?
>>29902516Get this: you dump a massive population from all of the fantasy races into a region or a world. All of the fantasy races. No, you faggot, -ALL- of the fantasy races.Do you know how much the initial population of that world is going to be? Too fucking big. With that much initial sapient life there's going to be a fuckton of war, a fuckton of fighting for resources, and a fuckton of shit getting wrecked for EVERYONE. There's a reason why the world is working in massive governments today. There'd be major competitors who either unite their underling races or exterminate them entirely. It's just as likely the centaurs won't make it as the humans. And everyone else, because EVERYONE IS CLAWING AT EACH OTHER FOR RESOURCES.It's like you have no clue about anthropology.
>>29902544Too bad that both hobbits and gnomes are heavily isolationist and religious in almost every single setting they're apart of, huh?Because if they'd actually reproduce and make infrastructure that aren't 40-200 man-strong villages, they -would- be innovative enough to come out ahead.
>>29902608I have no doubt that centaurs won't make it, because they're being devoured by packs of armed wendigos and jackalopes.The point is that the hyperspecialists in each environment will rise to the top, until such time as some kind of disaster happens, at which point any -surviving- generalists could have a chance.But this includes all sorts of things, not only humans. Goblins, hobbits, gnomes, hobgoblins, orcs, I could keep listing.
>>29902579This is a fair point, but it still hitches on the fact that Neanderthal was wiped out by Cro-magnon, which is deemed incredibly unlikely in the scientific community right now.
>>29902606What he's saying is that all the fantasy races you're using for your arguments have in the collective consciousness of fiction a set of personalities and behaviors. And these behaviors tend to make their ability to thrive as an advanced culture difficult, even impossible. To make them thrive, you would have to alter them to the point that they are closer to humans than the races you claim they are. And at that point it's pointless not to just make them human.
>>29902665so, if I make them reasonable people who don't shoot themselves in the foot at every turn, they're "too human"?Anon, you are conflating successful traits with human traits.As it stands, you're doing little to refute the idea that if these races -didn't- pick up the idiot ball, they would overwhelm humanity easily.
>>29902435But it isn't an argument. Because it makes the assumption the setting contains dozens of intelligent races which is rarely the case.
>>29902372What about settings where everyone is actually the same race, but worshiping a god or acting like a god would approve of makes you physically look like that god's avatar?
>>29902747then there aren't any non-human races, and it's just human sub species in competition.similar to the scenario where all the nonhuman races are based on human wizards fucking weird things.
>>29902544>goblins>technologyGoblins are usually small, spiteful, stupid creatures.
>>29902583The common theme in this thread is that all of the fantasy races start out at the same time with the same population numbers.But the opposing side seems to think that Humans would go extinct because the other races would be racist, or that Humans would attempt to make the other races go extinct because of racism.But only once has it shown up a thought of co-existence, and that point fell short very quickly. Humans are political masterminds, in just about every setting they're apart of. In most settings, other races share a brotherly love or racial "you're one of us so I wont' fuck your mother" attitude. Why wouldn't Humans just become social overlords/paragons and coexist/assimilate other races to their culture/assimilate into other cultures?That's really the most realistic thing to say. Because random racism doesn't really make any sense between sapient creatures, not when there's resources and manpower to go around.>>29902606Close. In many settings, Humans are on top because of the narrative. However, in the setting you're thinking of, non-humans will be on top because of the narrative. So really what you're doing is stating the fucking obvious and pretending like it's a point against me.As with >>29902659
>>29902769not in the modern headspace they're not.well, the stupid part at least.well, when it comes to technology.they've got the strange combination of extreme technical ability and still being trash mobs.
>>29902661Oh I'm not the guy that brought up neanderthal in the first place, I just had to bring up information on their intellect when it was brought into question. As far as what wiped them out I think that it was a combo of diseases(from cro-magnon) and climate change is a bitch if you are specialized.
>>29902583i think in fantasy settings, humans have the shortest lives, and also the most children. So their population increases faster than other races. additionally, the shorter life span means more ambition.that's the reason humans tend to dominate most fantasy settings. Also, all other humanoid races were based on humans. So elves are basically forest humans. dwarves are mountain/cave humans. Halflings are children-humans.most fantasy races have niche habitats. Humans are based of humans, and as a race, we are extremely adaptable. other races tend not to be.
>>29902830but both goblins -and- halflings beat them out in the short lifespan more children thing.This logic would mean that all the trash mobs conquer the world.
>>29894554>>29899899>>29900029>>29900314>>29900348>>29900819>>29902608Um, unless the world for a fantasy is like a small Pangaea, there would be enough room for different regions with different species. So maybe humans live in the deserts of the great south east, while scorpion people or something, although vastly superior at living in deserts, live in the north western deserts of an entirely different continent. Why would you entirely write off a race just because one is different? They probably evolved in different areas far away from each other initially anyway. Camels live in deserts. Red Kangaroos live in deserts. Do they live in the same deserts? No. Did kangaroos punch all the camels to death despite living far away? No. So seriously guys stop this pro human or anti human shit. It's just a thinly veiled scub argument.
>>29902693>removing the culture behind a race>implying it's "not shooting in the foot"Many of the races have reasons for their isolationist behavior. Most of the time, they're pretty fucking good reasons (god said so, we'll lose our immortality, the rest of the world is cuh-razy). This is the element of good writing.The element of BAD writing is when you say something will happen because you said so. It should be because the universe says so, you faggot.
>>29902869anon, you keep agreeing with me that the other races have picked up the idiot ball>(god said so, we'll lose our immortality, the rest of the world is cuh-razy)and thus allow humans to run rampant.This seems like bad writing designed to allow human dominated settings via handwave.
>>29902606>so, what you're saying is humans win because they're the only ones who have the narrative saying they act in their own best interestsTHis guy and his "narrative" shit.It's narrative fiat to include intelligent non-human people with human capabilities in the first place. Your argument is that it's dumb to include non-human races, you sperglord.
>>29902851Usually fantasy worlds ate much larger than Earth too.
>>29902820In DnD goblins are small raiding tribals, in TES they are small raiding tribals, in Warhammer they are small raiding tribals. The only places I can think of where they aren't are Warcraft and GURPS Banestorm. And they are only tech guys in Warcraft.
>>29902890my argument is actually that every race but humans -has- to act like idiots or humans would be overwhelmed.
>>29902911in warhammer the goblins are the ones who assemble all the shit and keep orc society going. Them and mechboys.
>>29902825My eyes lit up when I saw>climate change is a bitch if you are specializedThe entire thread totally forgot about that. What the fuck is going to happen to specialized species when a planet goes through inevitable climate change? Move? And what? Leave their civilization behind in the dust?Humans and their unspecialized ability to live just about anywhere easily trump that if the elves can't take a drought and the mermaids can't deal with a 5 degree water temperature difference that will kill them.>>29902888>and thus allow humans to run rampantwhy the fuck would a fantasy race consider humans a threat outside of being another sapient creature? That's a massive assumption to base an argument behind.
>>29902942In Fantasy, that's the Black Orcs. Gubbins are negotiators and alchemists. They also tame beasties and handle squigs.
>>29902961they don't need to assume humans are a threat, they simply need to already occupy the land humans want and not share.
>>29902981>occupy the land humans want and not share.Why don't they want to share?
>>29902942I was initially responding to the person who implied goblins are more technologically advanced than humans. Sure goblins in Warhammer build the catapults and wagons because they have more dexterous hands. But they are equal to or inferior in tech to the human nations. Their stuff is less refined and more ramshackle as well.
>>29902971>negotiators and alchemistsAren't they also the priests and wizards in fantasy?They seem pretty darn smart to me.
>>29902981Why would they not share? Are human goods and manpower not good enough for them? Why? Why are humans considered bad guys for no reason?>>29902974If magic is in the setting, humans can use it too and automatically they have as much viability as any other fantasy race because>Magic, nyukka
>>29901725/pol/back here.You are forgetting one simple factor; even the most primitive tribals avoid war naturally, as it is in their pure self-interests to avoid wars, mostly due of them being costly and unpopular with rest of your tribe/clan/state/kingdom/empire.This includes specially if there is trade or other factors nor interest groups that would not gain form this peaceful co-excistance. This is major reason also why greek states rarely where at state of war(constant and total warfare never happened due these interests).Only when there are clear contradictionson national,faction and other interests threatened(natural resourses for example) only then possibility of war comes in mind. Rarely there are total anexion wars, as this is usually seen necessary and waste of resourses.
>>29903009>automatically they have as much viability as any other fantasy race becauseElves are better at magic than humans.
>>29902995>>29903009>sharing with humansand thus you have come to part 2 of my setting: near universal human population in non human cities.Humans are adaptable, but not specialists. This means they won't be able to claim much if anything before other people do, but they'll be able to live just fine with the other peoples.
>>29903002Both orcs and goblins can be shamans. Goblins are described more as 'crafty' than they are 'intelligent'.
>>29902921What I'm thinking is that everybody wouldn't immediately go "Fuck Humans" and attempt to wipe them out. Realistically, there would be internal conflict. Besides, where are all of the races before they appear in fantasyland? Were they in other worlds?
>>29903041>>29903054They would be like gypsies - roaming around everywhere and tolerated until they start making asses of themselves
>>29903054they don't need to fight humans, simply outcompete them. Also, fantasylands have a variety of creation myths and backstories. Usually it changes depending on who you ask.
>>29903039Because of narrative fiat, right? So what makes that any different from humans being better because of narrative fiat?>>29903041and perfectly possible part 3 of the setting: the minority controlling the majority. Look at south africa not so long ago. Bingo. Happens all the time, and not just because the minority has a bigger gun.
>>29903054>Were they in other worlds?That is actually what happened in the GURPS Banestorm setting. A faction of elves decided to create a great spell to destroy the orcs, it fucked up and sucked in entire villages, ships, people, creatures and more from various other worlds including Earth. So now the world had humans from various places and periods plus several types of goblins and other creatures.
>>29903091>Because of narrative fiat, right?No, because its one of their traits, you fucking idiot. Its always been that way.
>>29903091>minority controlling the majorityHey, that only happens sometimes.Like with the races that take penalties to INT and CHA.
>>29903020Now factor in diplomacy for races that can breed versus diplomacy for races that cannot.
>>29902921No, your argument was that non human races shouldn't be included because that would be the result of narrative hand waving. While you provide that argument, you also posit that non-human species of similar intelligence must behave like humans or it's not reasonable, when it's not even reasonable for them to exist in the first place. That they exist is the result of cumulative "narrative fiat" of storytellers introducing weird monster people to create a conflict. Maybe don't argue for shit that doesn't actually exist over things that do, and can be studied, and I we wont call you an idiot furfag.
>>29903125>must behave like humansYou are confusing human traits with self-interested intelligence traits again, anon.Just because someone acts in a way that is successful does not make them human.
>>29903112>Its always been that way.Because of narrative fiat, you massive faggot.>>29903121So, a lot of them?>Humans are a minority in a realm of goblins>Humans control goblin, kobold, and other low int, low CHA fantasy races>uses superior INT / CHA to wage war>look at all this expendable manpower, technology, and magic I have, everyone
>>29903175Goblin rights! Goblin Rights!
>>29903175shush, anon, you are describing too many of my oncoming threat factions.Though sometimes I swap out the humans with yuan ti or illithids or some shit if the party really hates humans being antagonistic for some reason. It comes up sometimes.
>>29903202>hating humans being antagonisticMake them play a game where you're fighting nazis, and ask them if it's any different.
>>29903146Again, you throw out that the creatures would behave a certain way. They aren't real beings, and as such it's up to the story to dictate how they act. Arguing against that is ridiculous.
>>29903237Yeah, I know, players can be weird.though, I don't mind swapping out the human for some other high CHA/INT race.It would naturally follow that any of those that are fairly adaptable would -also- make a living in other species cities, and have positions of power.Which is part 2 subsection A of my setting, involving many cosmopolitan nations that, while they may be predominated by one race or another, are also spattered with minor races that can survive in their climate.
>>29903200Hush little goblins, you've made it abundantly clear you don't mind living in hoover houses as long as we throw cogs and materials at you to play with.Now please go back to your workshop and think of a better clock to make? I'm really busy trying to keep your society from collapsing in on itself..
>>29903276do you have a problem with the creatures acting in their own intelligent self interest in stories?
>>29903175Its their natural traits, dumbass. Next youll cry about dwarves being good at smithing being fiat. You have no clue what the word fucking means.
>>29894501You're implying that they breed like humans, which isn't a given. It's entirely possible that instead of breading constantly, they have a breading season like other animals. Given the lifespan of elves, I wouldn't be surprised if Elven women only ovulate once a century. Come to think of it, if like humans elven women had a limited number of viable eggs, elven women would become infertile around age 50 just like human women. Which would lead to some very interesting social dynamics if the only people capable of giving birth are all, relative to the races lifespan, children. All the above applies to dwarves too, if to a lesser degree. Also, take into account mortality rates for pregnancy. Have you seen how big a dwarf's head is in comparison to it's body size? I'd be surprised if the average dwaven woman can survive more then the minimum of two births to sustain viable population.
>>29903305Congratulations anon! You've made a -believable setting-! That's a very difficult thing to do, and apparently only a handful of the people in this thread can conceive it.
>>29903009Because we are arguing here about imaginary things.Because humanity as is can barely tolerate already existing rival goverments/nations/tribes. See how nice and welcoming Iraqians were for US forces to come and take what they needed for their nation. That's sharing. Its a strawman exaple but it shows how we behave now, as cultured and tech-savant we are, so you must also assume that things would go more awry when you mix completely different species into fray.Its just basic thing in human mentality, the short-life span, greed to leave a note on history would also force us confront other races, make them share even if they didn't want to, and should push come to shove, elf is an elf, human would choose human in the end. Leaving elf fend for himself. Same goes other way round.
Its easy to avoid this with just basic geography. The orcs will not wipe out the humans immediately if the eastern wasteland is separated from the temperate forests in the west by a large mountain range. Especially if that is where the dwarves make their holds. Just like the elves are not going to immediately conquer everyone if they start on a large island to the south and do not have a monoculture, look at the British Empire. It did not properly get going until one faction on an island managed to subdue and incorporate the others into its forces.
>>29903344For some reason all the settings have so much HUMAN PLACEDORF PLACEELF PLACEand it prevents the wacky monster mash parties I have learned to enjoy.So I made the setting to have a way for numerous races to be working together closely without some big macguffin forcing them to.
>>29903329Is there any physical reason as to why dwarves are better at smithing or elves are better at magic?If there isn't, then it's the narrator telling you they're good at it and not giving a reason. Which is bad writing. Which makes for stupid, unbelievable settings.
>>29903397well, dwarven women are anvils for one.And for two, elves have natural magical antennae.
>>29900619Weren't the neanderthals suppose to be stronger? And the cro-magnons were just smarter so they had better weapons.
>>29903397>physicalThere are usually biological and geographical reasons at the very least.
>>29903356>Because humanity as is can barely tolerate already existing rival governments/nations/tribes.God I hate hearing this. It only proves how narrow minded people are when they look at anthropology and already existing states of man. Have you read Thomas Hobbes' work? The social contract? But let's look at the iraqi/US conflict example. That's based around oil and scarce resources. Our example in this thread (all fantasy races all existing in one place at prehistoric times) doesn't have that same relation of scarcity. Races will be too small to really compete with each other on that type of level because no one's populations are high enough to require resources worth fighting over.It is a basic thing in human mentality, but it's not going to be prevalent until all the races are on their feet and able to make and adapt their society.
>>29903328My problem is that claiming fictional beings must behave a certain way to fit your idea of intelligence is an absurd basis for an argument.
>>29894834I personally like the idea of a group of humans using post hole diggers to randomly dig holes in the plain before battle. Hundreds of proud centaur warriors laid low, because of broken legs.
>>29903397Elven lifespan allows for a longer time to learn the secrets of magic. As for dwarves, they are often given some sort of stone sense thing that makes them better at mining, not smithing. However if you are mining more metal, you are going to be smithing more as a culture.
>>29903485in reality, I much prefer mutualistic arrangements where races that start near each other and have grown up alongside each other form composite cultures.This is how it goes almost every time in my settings, unless one race actively eats the other.Then things get wonky.>>29903550anon, please don't try to claim humans have the monopoly on civilization or empire building.
>>29898682True, but they also had no rival species to contend with, so humanity merely spread. Instead now we have sentient species that occupy places, so humanity cannot merely expand like it has.
>>29903557the problem is centaurs aren't the real threat, but instead the hobgoblins.Which are basically humanity 2.0.
>>29903560Not to mention that even if they have above ground farms and underground fungus farms there is unlikely to be enough space to provide both variety and sufficient amounts of food in the tunnels and valleys. So dwarves can do a lot of trading.
>>29903397Seeing as magic is usually a natural resource, it makes perfect sense for some races to be better conduits for it then others.I guess electric eels are HURR, FIAT too.
>>29903560It also gives elves a longer time to STOP CARING. Once you spend two hundred years practicing magic, are you really going to want to keep doing that, or are you going to get bored on an existential level and move on, never touching the art again?
>>29903623>are you really going to want to keep doing thatSeeing as the alternative is letting humans rape everything, yes.
hobgoblins:They reproduce similarly or faster than humans.They have +2 dex and con with no penalty.they've got darkvision and a natural +4 to moving silently.They are known to produce human like civilizations and be aggressive in conquering other peoples and races, while also quite united amongst themselves.
>>29902553>Elves are preservationist and tend to hate or not want to use fire/metal at all,>Made Silmarils>Invented metal weaponry>crafted the greatest cities in the history of Middle-Earth>Magical Super Swords, Magical Super Swords everywhereSure, they really hate metal and technology, Anon. Keep telling yourself that.
>>29903584>anon, please don't try to claim humans have the monopoly on civilization or empire building.Maybe you should read my posts.That's exactly what's being claimed by everyone. "humanity is the only advanced civilization we know, so we must apply how humans act according to me onto every non human race."That behavior could kill us if we ever made contact with an alien race.
>>29903654And exactly how good is a bunch of unimpassioned, apathetic elves going to be at their jobs? Especially when compared to human mages who, though weaker, still have the creative spark of youth?
>>29903439>usuallyBoy, isn't that the key word that means "Becuase the narrator says so"? Now, if you can name an actual biological reason why a stubby subterannean humanoid with lots of facial hair would be better at smithing, I'll concede that you're not a fucking idiot.>>29903560>some sort of stone sense thingIf you were going to bullshit a reason out of your ass, could you at least cover it up? Also, with a miner culture, you'll be seeing a lot of subterannean cities and settlements based around mining and trading ore for necessities. That sure sounds like a great isolationist culture.As for the elves, that doesn't work in this setting on account of:A) booksB) all the races started out AT THE SAME TIME>>29903584That's how a believable setting is built. When all the races behave in a way that makes sense. Congrats, anon! You figured out the answer to the thread! Too bad the other guys can't.
>>29903721>hurr, only humans are cleverOhai, HFY
>>29899652No, what we learned is that Dragons and Giants were around first. And there's no possibly way for tiny races like dwarves or elves to possibly invade their biomes. I mean dragons are clearly better suited to inhabit every environment.
>>29903711anon, your statements universally are for other races actively not doing anything that would infringe on humanity being the baws, and they also all hinge on humans being the only guys who can ever do empires or civilizations.God forbid there are other expansive advanced civilizations that outcompete humans.
>>29903726Because it lives its entire life surrounded by metal and making stuff to mine more metal.
>>29903593except why not?Seriously there's no reason for any other race to put down Humanity aside from "I'm the narrator and I'm sick of Humanity being on top">>29903614No, electric eels are not, becuase they have a PHYSICAL REASON FOR CONDUCTING ELECTRICITY. Name a biological, LOGICAL reason for elves to be better at magic and then you have a point. Otherwise, it's just the narrator saying how things work.
>>29903662Luckily for humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, and loads of others also hate hobgoblins, so it's not a grand species duel or some shit. Hobs have to contend with the resistance of loads of sapient races, many with powerful mages, mighty innovations and weaponry, and a great number of armies arrayed against them.Plus those orc faggots keep shitting everywhere.
>>29903753anon, this is why halflings and gnomes are so common.Hard for a dragon or giant to eat a halfling or a gnome.They gotta dig and shit, and most of the mouthful is dirt.
>>29903654>letting humans rape everythingYour dumbass furry ecological pretentiousness sis showing, anon.
>>29903780>biological reasonIt's the ears anon.
>>29903742>Saying I said things I didn't sayOhai, dumbass.You only have so many ideas. A three-thousand year old elf is going to be burned out on creativity in comparison to a 30-something human. And since the humans can keep on building on magical foundations that their ancestors AND the elves have laid down, they'll keep on innovating while older elves will eventually be reduced to imitation of past greatness. In a lot of ways that's what happened in Lord of the Rings as the elves faded from Middle Earth.
>>29899994I'm pretty sure hobgoblins live in closets and eat children anon. And what the fuck are you talking about elves for? How is being two foot tall, and being really good at making cookies suddenly Humanity 2.0?
>>29903846anon, I dispute your point of every person having only a finite number of ideas as poppycock.
>>29903686>neglecting tolkein's massive narrator bias for his elf-wankeryIt's people like you who make /tg/ hate elves. They could have been cool.>>29903776As said, nice isolationist trade culture you got there. Sure hope you can expand past your mineral rich mountain- oh WAIT, you don't know how to farm anything other than cave wheat and mushrooms, do you? Well shit, I'd love to give you some food for free, but I'm busy working my field for all the -paying- dwarves in yonder mountain giving me ore.
>>29903376>It did not properly get going until one faction on an island managed to subdue and incorporate the others into its forces.I'm assuming the Scottish are orcs and the Welsh are Elves.Right?
>>29903780>logicalYou want a logical, biological reason that a race created by gods instead of evolution should be more able to use a force that does not exist in the real world? Fine, their mana collector organ is bigger.
>>29903898damnit anon, don't you know the only ones you can fuck with are elves and ice spirits?The trolls, beastmen, and dwarves all have custom badends if you fuck with them.
>>29903932(>>29903837)So in this hypothetical setting where all the fantasy races exist together the Elves are still made by gods?Boy, that's a lot of narrative saying that they're better "just because", isn't it?
>>29903966I said nothing about gods, anon.I said everything about ears.
>>29903846See, I think a problem here is, a human would burn out after a couple thousand years, but an elf? Aren't elves a completely different species, that think differently than humans? We can't imagine how they think differently because we have no other sapient race to compare them to. Because they're fictional we need a reference, and we tend to use ourselves but "better". I think this whole argument is moot.
>>29903966I am not talking about the retarded idea of everyone being plopped down together. I am going by the fact in most fantasy settings all races had a divine, not an evolutionary origin.
>>29903932also, WHY is their mana collection organ bigger? You need REASONS for things to happen, godammit! Otherwise you're just being a shitty writer and a shitty worldbuilder!>>29903991I put the response in parentheses to act as a response, because I forgot the "Read >>numbers" trope.
>>29900653I think you're looking at it wrong. You don't have to be the best at something to be better then everyone. Faster then DwarvesStronger and tougher then ElvesSmarter the OrcsLarger then Gnomes or HobbitsMore numerous then Dragonsetc.
>>29904021the ears are bigger because ofsexual selectionthe magic is a happy side effect.
>>29904017But that's what this entire thread is about, anon. Humanity vs. non humanity where all fantasy races are plopped down together.Did you just like, ignore all of the thread except for one post? >>29904045There! Finally! FINALLY SOMEONE FIGURED OUT HOW TO MAKE A SETTING!Thank you anon, you've restored my faith in /tg/. Maybe one day there will be less shitty quest threads, too.
>>29904038you can do that with literally any race.Also, hobgoblins are that but also>stronger and faster than humans
>>29900003I have it's horrible. The children kept putting their fingers in my asshole when I didn't look and whenever I had sex with a girl my friends would all call m white pig.
>>29904080>Maybe one day there will be less shitty quest threads, too.Keep on hoping
>>29904080>compliments my ability to make settings>insults my preferences in games to playSorry bro, I play lots of quests.
>>29904116If we look at his wording he said "less shitty" quest threads, implying he's okay with quests that are of good quality.
>>29904080Multiple people have pointed out that is stupid and pointed out why in a sensible fantasy world humans would not be driven extinct before they invented farms.
>>29902191>Dwarf InnCeilings are too short. Food good. Bear was amazing. Would visit again. (9/10)
>>29904140Anon, good quality is such a vague descriptor that I will always have people arguing anything I like is shit, questwise.
>>29904116well I hope you like the next 8 pokemon quests that are going to come out because people realized that they get popular.I know more than a handfull of QMs who got their start because they wanted to make a popular quest.>>29904140bingo. Namely I hate the ones that focus on already established universes like pokemon and bleach. At least have it be /tg/ related, godammit!
>>29904167>Bear was amazing.Dwarves have bear prostitutes?
>>29904182Eh, I couldn't possibly read all those quests anyway. I'll read the ones I like and have time for.Though, usurping settings from other things for gameplay use is nothing new. We all the time have threads dedicated to "how do I play X game/show/book in a tabletop setting?", and I don't mind that. I probably won't participate unless it's a game/show/book I personally enjoyed though.
>>29903780There's plenty of reasons. Just because all we know is humans are on top doesn't mean it will always end up that way.Humanity has had no contenders. Having contenders WILL make it more difficult due to conflict. That is logic. They have something you want or need, and you have something they want or need. Conflict is inevitable, one will subjugate the other, and if possible outbreed them.The most likely scenario with this species clusterfuck is there are no more purebloods, but half-breeds everywhere.
>>29904329Technically, Humanity had lots of contenders. Other species of Hominids. And we beat them, for the record.
>>29904329unless half-breeds aren't a thing.
>>29904329I'm not saying that humanity will end up on top every time. I'm not even saying that's likely. I'm just saying that all these people saying that X non-human will end up on top has to have a reason, exactly as to how humanity has had a reason to be on top in every other setting where humanity is on top.
>>29904386humanity's reason is generally an entirely bland "adaptability" or "spirit".Which can really be applied to any race you pull out of a bucket.
>>29902608The winners would be:>Dragons>Whoever is the best at sucking dragon dick
>>29904386This thread did not even start with humanity being 'on top', just having an inn and therefore presumably a town and at least an earldom run by humans. Then the dickhead who thinks they should be dispossessed gypsies showed up.
>>29904420I think adaptability is generally considered in a physical sense. A human can survive anywhere, an elf can't survive in a desert. When you take into account specialized races who survive better in certain biomes: climate change fucks them royal.
>>29904446but elves can totally survive in deserts.
>>29904442well, to be fair, they probably should be.
>>29904507Don't you start this shit again, anon. We've almost reached a semblance of civility.
>>29904507Don't start that trolling bullshit again.
>>29903757top drek, chummer. You don't get my argument. My argument is that your argument is fucking terrible, because humans exist, and furries don't, therefore your hypotheticals are just masturbation.
>>29904556>>29904547anon, don't call it trolling or I'll have to defend it with reasoned arguments, and the opposite of your desires will ensue.
>>29904386They would be on top because the way they developed gave them capabilities that let them out-survive us, or outbreed us, subjugate us or even hunt us.Take for example, elves. Let's say elves, due to magical exposure developed an organ that lets them control magic. That is a biological development that makes them superior to humans. What good is a stick when the guy you want shit from can throw fireballs at you. You can bet elves would be feared, likely even worshipped, and getting that human dick and or pussy because such magical powers are strong traits you want for your people.
>>29904570ah, so your argument isn't an argument but is instead a serious of vague, drunken insults.
>>29904577See, that's all fine and dandy, but there still needs to be a narrative reason for that to happen. If other fantasy races evolve like that, humans conceivably would too. Of course there are going to be fantasy races who are automatically better because of the narration, but that same narration can conceivably be applied to humans.Besides, we're all forgetting why humans are top dog in the first place, as >>29904570 has stated, we're talking about fictional races who only serve as a form of conflict for the easily relateable human/human-esque faction for the setting.
>>29904725this all changes when fantasy races aren't there entirely for conflict, but instead perhaps to be a relatable character, protagonist, or even a player character.
>>29904754by which you still need reasons for things to be better than other things, and make sure said reasons make sense.As long as those parameters are met there's nothing wrong with humanity not being on top, but so often there aren't those reasons necesarry.
>>29904815levels of reason given can vary a lot.While it's best to know the reasons yourself as a world creator, as a player, they often won't know and will be entirely in the dark. Especially if the reasons are evolution or biology based and it's in a fantastical setting without extensive dissections for anatomy purposes and archeologists.
>>29904855Yep. I don't think I ever said anything to contradict that.
>>29904725The narrative is that is happens because the other races are exposed to things that humans are not, because narrative.I also disagree that it needs a narrative if they're following this natural selection process. There is no narrative to the process, it happens because it happens.When we get into narrative, we gets into fantastical things like one god each chose the other races, changed them, and set them loose to wreck shit in their name.The arguments that it can possible happen to humans too is irrelevant, because if there is a possibility of it not happening, and other races wipe them out or subjugate them, then it can happen in a setting for the same reasons that may apply to humans in a different setting. It is not rendered impossible.
>>29904877mine was more of a clarification and illumination post.
>>29903898>An author is biased towards his characters>boo fucking hooI really can't see the problem with an author making the characters in his stories important to his stories, Anon.Also, they were certifiably cool as hell. Fought demons and stuff. It's all you DnD jerks who try to "tone them down" and keep them from doing exciting stuff, like fighting demons.
>>29905033We don't tone them down that way. We tone them down by having the -other- races fight demons too. Because why would elves be the only ones to fight demons? Demons threaten everyone.
>>29905107and everyone fought the demons, Anon. Do you even Nírnaeth Arnoediad?Where's the problem?
>>29894803wow, animes have really ruined the possibility of people being cool while not being super sayan tier. why does every barman have to be some primordal shithead? i'm tired of this "demiplane tavern BTW that barman over there? he's half a million years old and merged with the evil nanobots and is the only one able to control him and for 2 more times in his life he can have the destructive capability of a nuke also he instantly heals with nanobots now" bullshit, big time.
>>29905459anon, if you blame spectacularity creep on any genre specifically, you basically reveal yourself to be an uneducated pleb.
>>29905459It used to be that people would play with a few sourcebooks, and that's where all the inspiration would come from. Now we live in this post-post-post-modern world where the GM becomes some devil that throws hellish recycled dadaist monstrosities at you and expects you to see them as normal.
>>29905542ok, i'll give you that. i was just thinking of stuff like fullmetal alchemist where their alchemy teacher is a freaking housewife and able to outcompete some of the best professional army alchemists, or pretty much any of those animes/mangas where the enemies just keep getting stronger without any reason and they still all look like fucking underweight 17 year olds. but youre right, i might be projecting on japan. doesn't mean those fucking bullshit npcs don't exist all over this board and a boatload of roleplaying games i've been to and people told me about.
>>29905745>housewife>The girl who had survival training in the fucking harshest northern reaches of their nation and had to tangle with the most elite forces in the Amestrian military just to get food. And that's excluding the fact that she's one of five alchemists in the world who got a peek at the Truth, which by default grants you a genius-level knowledge and understanding of the workings of alchemy.>just a housewifeThere are few anime that I'll defend to the death, but don't you talk no shit about Izumi Curtis.
>>29904218No, "Bear" was the name of the bar's dorf stripper.
>>29904364I haven't been following since the spellplague, but I'm pretty sure there are several FR cities/towns that are predominantly half-elven. Who said Cha is a dump-stat?