>Be Irish monk>Spend childhood learning to read and write>Love books and knowledge, particularly the Ancient Greek authors (why is Plutarch so based?)>Spend most of my life copying books by hand>Fucking Vikings attack>Run away carrying all the books I can>Find new monastery, start all over again>Have to trek all the way to Rome to get copies of burned books.>Beaten and robbed by bandits on the way, left for dead>Fall sick>Spend months in a farmer's cottage healing>Get on ship>Ship attacked by more Vikings (why do people today idolize these assholes?)>Spend year as a slave>Escape, continue on to Rome>Spend months petitioning the Pope to give me copies of the lost books>Start back home>Almost drowned in a storm on the way back>Attacked by bandits again>Almost killed>This time am saved by a local king, still I almost shit myself>Get back to monastery>Spend the rest of life copying books so future generations will have the knowledge.>1500 year later>Be in heaven>Look down to see what happening>See fedora-fags writing "Oh if only the Church had never existed society would be so much more advanced because of how hard they worked to burn books and destroy knowledge." Yes if there were no Christianity we'd be in space age society by now, fuck those guys.">mfw
EVANGELION HIJACK LOL
>be servant of old gods >spend childhood being hunted by foolish mortals for speaking with "the devil">my only friends are the voices that speak to me and tell me how to stay a head of those who wish to burn me>I find a place where the mobs won't follow and I set up camp and rest.>spend years alone in the forest with my ravings and my voices>the only company besides the voices are the occasional travelers who I capture and sacrifice so the voices don't leave me.>the voices are all I have.>months later a mob comes to my home and demands I pay for the sins I have committed>I laugh>they tie me up>I laugh>they tie me to a stake>I laugh>I laugh as they bring in the kindling>I laugh as they pour oil over me>I laugh as the match is lit>And I laugh as the flames overwhelm me>I am finally with the voices>??? Years later>Be with the voices>look to see what is happening>see fedora-fags"OH DAK LERD CTULU PLZ LET ME KILL ALL THOSE WHO THINK I AM RONG! I JUST WANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD.">mfw
Seriously guys, me and my bros spend most of our lives trying to keep as much knowledge alive as possible, which isn't easy (have you ever tried copying all of Aristotle works by hand?). And kinda burns me to see every talking about us as though the only way we could get off was by watching a great pile of burning books. Like what they hell?
I think both posts have valid points.
>>29757715Without the corrupting influence of Christianity, Rome may never have fallen, and the old knowledge may have been defended by the legions of the Empire rather than a few ginger proto-sysadmins.
>>29758147Irishfag here, I hate us and everything we stand for, but those Irish monks were pretty cool guys, making really beautiful art and preserving knowledge. I've seen the Book of Kells in person, it's a beautiful tome.It aint black and white folks, religion's done bad and good, does so everyday. So does a lot of stuff. Don't let a vocal minority or a public face speak for every single member. Who among us on /tg/ really has the ultimate authority to speak for or against an entire centuries old institution, regardless of how well read an intimate expert one may believe themselves. You'll never know the full story of every single member of a religious system. Arrogance is just as bad as ignorance.Hell, this is coming from an agnostic with zero belief in a god.
>>29758147>All of Aristotle's worksYou mean all of those that were only rediscovered in Western Europe in the 13th century thanks to based Greek refugees carrying shiploads of manuscripts?
>>29758147Most people aren't really talking about you. We're talking about Creationists who are trying to convince us all the world is Flat and that crazy women should be burned because Jesus
>>29758543There's a woman named S. Atanus running for state senate in Illinois that is convinced that autism is God's way of punishing us for gay rights. Take of that what you will.
>>29757715>Be Danish villager>Spend entire life trying to make a living off of piss-poor land>Some guys in robes and holding big crosses come over>A few of them even let us have some food and finished goods>Robed guys tell us about this Eastern Jew who was apparently the son of God>Cured diseases, rose from the dead, even went to Hel’s realm and came back>“This guy sounds pretty based, I’ll put his cross right next to my icon of Mjolnir.”>Invite robed guy into my hut to see cross>He looks at Mjolnir, and all my other little trinkets to the gods>Suddenly he gets all angry and starts calling me names in Latin or something>Get beat up and robbed by armored knights (why do modern people idolize these assholes?)>Now I’ve got to take to robbery to survive>Sail west over to some little green island>More robed guys>Naturally, I am rather bitter, and perhaps I get a little too carried away with the slaughtering>There’s some gold and some food, but also these paper-y things with strange words and pictures>Normally, I would just leave this stuff be, but I am still upset and eager to show off my Viking machismo to my comrades>So I tear it up>Go back home>Live a pretty decent life off the plunder>Me and some of my friends still worship the Jew, by the way>1500 years later>Be in Valhalla>Also get free trips to Heaven, so I can apologize to all the good robed guys I killed>Look down to see what’s happening>See goth kids (not the good kind of Goth, the mopey black-wearing kind) and “recreationists” saying>“The Vikings were a true warrior people who went out and killed for the lulz”>mfw>mfw I don’t even know what “lulz” are
>>29757715...why the fuck is this on /tg/?
>>29758413>Agnostic>Zero belief in a god.>Not doubting the existence or non-existence of deities.Say what now?I am replying to this because my definition of an agnostic is someone that doubts theism as much as atheism.>Monastic lifestyleI for one honor the men who let us be able to read works of some ancient Greeks (and others I may be ignorant of)>pic related.But for those who made sure that some books were not to be held in esteem, shame upon them.
>>29758413Thanks kid. Nice to hear someone still living appreciates us.There's really nothing like finishing an illuminated manuscript. Its a bitch to complete but the sense of satisfaction you get is incomparable. Both from doing something so painstaking and combining art with something practical like knowledge.Plus most of the bloody kings at the time were illiterate you had to put pictures in the books to keep em interested. lol>>29758458Well all of what we had at the time, which was still a lot of work to copy out.
>>29758706No no, you misunderstand me, anon. What I mean, what I should have said, is I personally lean more towards the no god side, but I would by no means entirely discount it. I'm just one person, after all, but myself, I think it's more likely there isn't just one whole god thing. Or it isn't as simple as that.
>>29758819Thank you anon.your reply brings much hope to my heart that the human race may find understanding even when the cloak of anonymity is at play.Or is it that you replied as such because you are anonymous?*strings of questions herein follow for some time indeterminate*
>>29758315Without the unifying effect of christianity, the decaying roman empire would have torn itself apart in around the 4th century, leaving Europe prime for being ravaged by the stringer armies of the Goths, Vandals, Huns and Sassanians (to name but a few). Christianity saved Rome for a short while, but it was too little, too late.
>Be shit-eater monk with bad hair>Get rekt by Northmen>Should have rolled barbarianValter did nothing wrong.
>>29758775Speaking of illuminated manuscripts...If you don't mind my asking, Brother, what's the deal with all the snails?
>>29758543The hell are you talking about? Everyone knows the world is round. The Ancient Greeks knew the world was round, even peasants know the world is round. When a ship sinks below the horizon and then comes back again, even an idiot has realize it hasn't fallen off the edge of the world. Where do you uptimers get this idea that we thought the world was flat from?>>29758618Ah yeah that might have been Dave. Sorry about him, we all thought he shouldn't have been a priest but fucking politics. We kept telling him don't go around smashing things as it upsets the locals but would he listen? I think he had what present day folk are calling "autism">>29758608And considering we had "autism" back in my time I don't know what this woman is on about.
>>29758919I replied because I could, because I thought I should, because I didn't want false information floating around. If we were all namefags I would have replied.I suffered under the throes of religious confusion for some time, I used to be a hardcore Catholic, left it for a few reasons revolving around life experiences and questions I couldn't find answers to, went around for some time looking for a religion or even trying to make one. Now I've settled into a slightly more comfortable agnosticism and notion there's no way I can make any absolute statements. I don't hate the church. I may not agree with a lot of it, but it has done good.Although I do harbour a desire for all the supernatural stuff to be true, and would rejoice to see it proved true. I mean, I think it might be nice if there was a heaven or place where even well-meaning heathens like myself might go.
>>29757715People who say that are being too simplistic, but it's arrogant as hell to claim that you're the saviors of civilization; it's not like older knowledge was kept literally nowhere else.Also, the Church only kept the "right" knowledge and squelched anything that might have been a spiritual/political threat.
>>29759193To elaborate: the biggest problem is that you people couldn't stand the presence of anyone who didn't share your religion, and you'd go around trying to convert them, destroying their own culture and knowledge. Including the Norse, for instance.
>>29759085>not knowing about the race of giant wizard snails that ravaged Europe during 1130-35
>>29758608>inb4 she wins>inb4 she ends up becoming President just as America reaches the peak of its power-tripping police state garbage>inb4 she is literally the Antichrist of the end times
>>29759185Pretty sure as long as you keep sincerely seeking truth and goodness in good faith, the Catholic doctrine is that you at least have a shot. Kind of hard to say just whether or not any given person qualifies as "invincibly ignorant", but I think as long as you're not flatly refusing the possibility of God's existence and sovereignty outright there's still a chance.
>>29758706No, sir, you are incorrect. Agnosticism is the position that the existence of a God is always in doubt and cannot be proven- it is independent of actual belief. There are both agnostic theists and agnostic atheists, although most agnostic individuals are atheists.
>>29759373What if you don't deny a priori that supernatural things of that nature might exist, but also know that the god of the Bible is a fucking fiend who deserves nothing but rebellion and eventual destruction?
>>29759228Actually, they did a very fine job of recording the practices, religion, and culture of the religions they tried to convert. That's where most of our knowledge today comes from. Thank you based monastics. You get a bad rap due to political figures using your religion to justify their own desires.
>>29759415Well, I think that's antitheism, the active hate of God. Not sure if belief is a pre-requisit for the designation.
>>29759447Fine job? With the Norse, for instance, a hell of a lot of their mythology has been blatantly tainted with incongruous Christian influences that almost certainly didn't exist originally. And how much do we really even know about pre-Christian Western Europe?
>>29759415Then you had a very selective reading of the Bible, don't understand that it is a descriptive text that emerged after the religion that it belongs to was formed, and also don't understand the concept of omnipotence (you con't destroy an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent entity).
>>29759489I don't believe in that version of God, actually; I seriously doubt any such thing could possibly exist. It's a gripe I have against the text more specifically.>>29759510Selective? Really? Encouraging genocide many times, frequently including mass rape? For starters?
>>29759497Sure, those influences emerged because that was the only way the monastics could get away with recording them, but they're so blatant that it's obvious what was added. We would have no clue at all of the comparatively well-recorded Norse culture if not for the church.And the old religions of pre-christian Europe were gone long before the Christians got there. We don't know because they didn't keep records, we only know about what came afterwards because the Church started keeping records.
>>29759528Yes, selective. There were also just as many instances of benevolence, and all the malevolent stuff is in the old testament exclusively. Which the church saw as historical documents detailing the beliefs and practices of the Jews (originally, this changed later) rather than the details of their own faith.
>>29759588We'd have been able to discern from the original Norse themselves if the Christians hadn't had such a boner for spiritual imperialism. Then there's the annihilation of the faiths of Eastern Europe, which I know weren't gone until the Christians came, unlike many of the Western ones.
>>29758413Zero belief in a god is atheism. I know some people try to paint it as some kind of 'positive' disbelief, but that's not the case. Only a few radical cases say they know for certain that there is no god.
>>29759489antitheism means you oppose theism (as a philosophical position), and almost certainly implies being an atheist as well.misotheism is hatred of god.maltheism is the belief that god exists and is evil.dystheism is the belief that god exists and is non-good (but not necessarily evil).
>>29759641Two things. First, being nice sometimes doesn't make you not a genocidal monster. Second, the New Testament is a continuation from the Old, not a retcon (not to mention that it has plenty of horrible things in itself, though they're lower-key... apart from Hell, an atrocity even worse than the Old Testament excesses).
>>29759654You need to take some history classes, anon. The Norse culture fell apart for reasons entirely unrelated to Christianity. The Scandinavian cultures that the Norsemen belonged to were conquered, and their culture disappeared for the same reason the the religion of the people of Britain prior to the Anglo-Saxons disappeared.And as for the Eastern European religions- they disappeared due to the mass number of people who elected to convert before the Byzantine Empire ever took their land, and the only reason we know anything of them at all, is because monks wrote it down.Seriously, Christian cultures are unique in that they actively record the culture and religion of the people they conquer. No other culture was ever so meticulous in the recording of their enemies.
>>29759865You just agreed with me in that Christianity's spread obliterated other faiths, just not necessarily at the swordpoint of the local imperial power... and yes, I'm against that, given how damaging so many of its old tenets were.
>>29758315>implying a Masada complex country is capable of lasting forever
>>29759928like those other faiths were any better.let's face it, the pagan religions weren't very good. at least christianity made something of itself.
>>29760038Christianity was spread by imperial powers, wasn't based on a specific ethnicity, and rewarded suffering so it made poor people happy. Those are the only reasons it lasted.
>>29759715The problem is that even the Church (yes, the Church) recognizes that the Bible is the product of human hands, and was collected and cannonized by humans, and ergo will in some way misrepresent a perfect being.The Bible is a collection of different texts, and you'll find that the genocide and murder and the like is only particular to one or two books of twenty. And the New Testament, was indeed, a retcon. Much of the tradition and culture of the religion changed after that.One of the primary Christian beliefs is that good is a perfectly moral agent. This idea takes precedence over any stories that have been told. There is an old argument that anything in the Bible that depicts God as immoral or amoral could not have happened.Lastly, if you honestly believe Hell is an atrocity, you are looking to find the conclusion you have already reached, and very poorly understand the religion you are rebelling against (which is absurd to begin with, there are many religions in the world, and that you would focus on one as the possible truth, and then wish to rebel against it is remarkably idiotic). The original conceptions of Heaven and Hell (and the ones that the Orthodox Church- the branch that has changed the least- follows today) are that they are are experiences, not places (hell, there wasn't even a heaven or hell in the old testament). Heaven is absolute connection to God, and Hell is absolute separation. The religion holds that humans have free will and that we arrive in either experience only by our own choice (except in Calvinist doctrines, which are dumb). Ergo, one can only be in Hell if one chooses to.
>>29758315>implying Cato wasn't the grognardiest grognard of all time, active 95 BC - 46 BC
>>29757933Deserved it for hating on mortals and sacrificing people just to hear voices.
>>29759928Christianity didn't obliterate it- those cultures chose to convert of their own free will. If it wasn't the Christians, it would have been another conquering culture.Your arguments are not particular to Christianity. You should really do more study on these topics before you go spouting off misinformation.
>>29759656I have zero belief, that doesn't imply I outright hold the notion there is absolutely no possibility. For me, personally, I believe there probably isn't.
>>29760101I said "if" it was true. I don't think it is. It's just the religion I'm most familiar with, so I focused on it somewhat.Also, Hell being an atrocity is one of the things that made me feel this way to begin with, not the other way around. And if it's about a specific connection with God... well, if nothing immoral in the Bible could have actually happened, I'll assume, then, that you wouldn't consider, say, my being homosexual and engaging in sexual relationships with my preferred sex to be an act of separation, then?>>29760169I'm against all such conquering cultures. I speak of Christianity here only because it won. I have similar issues with Islam.
>>29760059>doesn't know anything about Christianity's synctretism One of the reasons Christianity was so successful in Europe was because it was extremely capable of absorbing and adapting previous/local belief systems into itself.
>>29758775Hey , thanks for the humorous pictures in manuscripts . Though sometimes the illustrations make me think you were tripping after eating contaminated rye.
>>29759528the jews were specifically told never to breed with those of pagan religions.Name me one of these instances of sanctioned mass rape.
>>29759185this man. I totally know that feel.\
Just going to dump some secret of kells screenshots.
>>29757715Is that ancient AA in your tapestry OP?
>>29757715>Be Irish monk>Spend childhood learning to punch things and channel my ki>Love punching and meditation, particularly yogic meditation (why are Indians so based?)>Spend most of my life punching books with hand>Fucking Vikings attack>punch them to death>Stay in my monastery, everything is fine and there is no need to start all over again>Trek all the way to Rome to punch people>Punch bandits on the way, leave them for dead>Fall sick>Just kidding no I didn't>Get on ship>Ship attacked by more Vikings (why do people today idolize these assholes?)>Punch water at them>Escape, continue on to Rome>Spend months punching the Pope for no particular reason>Start back home>Almost drowned in a storm on the way back>Attacked by bandits again>Too monk to care about either of these things>This time I saved by a local king, still I almost shit myself but used ki to control my bowels>Get back to monastery>Spend the rest of life punching books so future generations will not have the knowledge.>1500 year later>Be in heaven>Look down to see what happening>See fedora-fags writing "Monks have no place in any setting that makes an attempt at realism.">mfw
>>29760622>Spend months punching the Pope for no particular reason
>>29757715>Be Shaolin monk>Spend childhood learning to read and write...>...and brutal PT.>Fucking Wokou pirates attack.>Abbot says we join volunteer force being formed against pirates.>Assdevastate pirates.>Go home and read more sutras.
>>29758706>tfw learned blackletterI get a boner every time I finish a practice page. No lie, teutonic handwriting gets my dick diamond-hard. My head swells to grapefruit-tier sizes.
>>29758664We are the closet to a history board other than /k/ or /pol/. Far wore relevant here. Welcome to his/tg/!
There's also the issue that the Church and barbarians both destroyed numerous centers of learning. Rome, Alexandria...Props to OP, but some folks there done fucked up. Same with the barbfags.
>>29757715>Vikings are more assholes than other civilizationsSure sounds like some pop culture propaganda there brah. Bet you think they were unwashed savages and wore pointy horned helmets too.
>>29757715>>29757933>>29758618Fuck all the other shit in this thread, I want to hear more stories like this.>10/10 Would use as character origin storiy
>>29760871>/pol/>HistoryRevisionist bullshit probably.
>>29759085Oh those. Well there's lot of different reasons for them. You didn't see a lot of them in my time but I talked to some of the later monk up here and there put them in for all sorts of reason. They never could all agree on one particular meaning for the symbol. One fellow I know said he put them symbolize the ideal knight overcoming the sin of Sloth. Another said it was meant to symbolize troublesome peasant rebellions, a third guy said he put them in because he was bored, had seen knights fighting snails in another brother's manuscript and though it was funny. There was this one guy I talked to who said it symbolized overcoming the temptations posed by women. I personally couldn't see the connection between snails and women but that's the tricky thing about symbols. One man can make a connection when another cannot.>>29759193>>29759228Well yeah we might have chosen to not write down all the pagan legends and what not. But the sciences, and mathamatics, and history we worked hard to preserve that. Its this idea that science and religion are and have always been in opposition and cannot co-exist that I find bizarre and disturbing.>>29759497Sorry about not writing down all the religious stuff though. You have to understand what things were like at the time. Petty kings constantly at war with one another. Barbarians raiding and pillaging everywhere with no king powerful enough to stop them. Really the only thing we could think of that would stop the fighting and bind everyone together was to create a common identity through shared religion.I know you young folk have fantasy about fighting the Vikings or being Vikings yourself and how great it would be to win glory and honour. (not being condescending, I wanted to do the same thing when I was young man) But when you're actually in the middle of it and people are being killed or enslaved and homes and fields are being burned you'd give anything to make it stop.
>>29760899>pop culture propagandaIt's Sweedish propaganda.
>>29758618What I hate most is how most modern nordic pagans are either retards who ACTUALLY believe it fundamentally (and doesn't modernise their beliefs like any sane individual and understand the nordic gods as psychological archetypes instead of literal characters) and/or they're racist conservative assholes who don't realize that the vikings were some of the most culturally progressive, accepting civilizations back then.
>>29760871>HIS/tg/IT'S ZIR/tg/ SEXIST PIG!
>>29758147>>29757715Yeah this is a really great religious statement you're making on the traditional games board. But while we're on it, the criticism is the church suppression of knowledge outside its own hands during the dark ages.Back then, education was available to two kinds of people: rich motherfuckers and godly motherfuckers. The lower classes' education was to be focused on simple piety and serving their liege lords. It was typically a double-whammy of god and feudal obedience that served both systems equally.Now compare this to ancient Greece and Rome, where even poor families could afford to send their children to school to learn numeracy and literacy.What changed?
>>29760933It's not that science and religion can't coexist... but if you want them to coexist, then religion has to be willing to let science honestly scrutinize it and show that it's wrong if it is.
>Be paleolithic hunter in ancient europe.>Smell wind, feel sunlight; life is good.>Gets colder, leaves fall.>Eventually snow falls.>Capture other human.>Wait for bright stars to rise in right places.>Blood sacrifice to bring back warm sun.>Works every time.>Several hundred thousand years later.>Up in happy hunting grounds.>Look down to see robed guys doing crazy stuff.>mfw
> Be fedora hat> Spend childhood being classy but pragmatic headgear> Love culture, particularly American (why is jazz so based?> Spend most of my life keeping hair dry> Fucking prohibition> Get knocked off head, all hats around me shot full of holes > Find new head, start all over again> Go out of fashion> Left on rack, sold to charity> Get threadbare> New football season starts> Get worn as fancy dress of famous coach> left on top of collection of old Time magazines> Thrown out >Years pass >Be in hat heaven >Look down to see what happening >See fedora-fags writing "Sometimes a lady just wants her man to dress like Ryan Gosling in "Gangster Squad," okay?">mfw
>>29757715That's cause religious orders were also big on persecuting HERESY even if it was rooted in science. Catholic Church was big on thought control. Jesus would be disappointed.
>Be Irish lad>Spend childhood learning to drink>Love drinking, particularly in pubs>Spend most of my life drinking>Fucking Sassanachs attack>Run away carrying all the Guiness I can>Find new pub, start all over again>Have to trek all the way to Rome to get wasted (not sure why)>Beaten and robbed by sassanachs on the way, left for dead>Fall sick>Spend months in a farmer's cottage pillaging his wife>Get on ship>Ship attacked by more Sassanachs in search of tea>Spend year as a coal miner>Escape, continue on to Rome>Spend months petitioning the Pope to give me booze money>Start back home>Almost drowned in a storm on the way back>My pocket bomb goes off>Almost killed>This time am saved by a local leprechaun, still I almost shit myself>Get back to pub>Spend the rest of life shining shoes so future generations will have the luck o the irish.>1500 year later>Be in heaven>Look down to see what happening>See anglo-fags writing ">Irish >White">mfw
>>29757715You realize that your entire post validates the opinion of the "fedora-fags"?
>>29761046Despite being a christian monk, that story had no references to christianity but did contain a pagan god. Story was more about art than religion though.
Christianity deserves to be the dominant religion on Earth.We fought the hardest, we beat every pagan religion fair and square. They thought they could conquer and enslave us, so we beat them at their own game. Might makes right, and no one's mightier than God.
>>29761045It is truly a shame that such a nifty and distinguished style of hat has been tarnished by association with the worst kind of insufferable basement-dwellers.
>>29761099>no references to Christianity>the movie is fucking called, Secret of KELLS
>>29761109You're a social darwinist, not a Christian.
>>29761151It hasn't, really. A nice (not Wal-Mart) fedora still looks good on an older gentleman's head.
>>29761109Pagan religions have no interest in spreading beyond the cultures that worship them bub. None of them conquered in the name of their God(s).Only Abrahamics were ever so Assholeish.>Jews: We're chosen, all of you are inferior.>Christianity and Islam: We're right, you're all deluded.
>>29761179That's only because with age comes the wisdom to not really care what young people fucking blabber on about.
>>29761179Well, sure, it's not beyond saving. But still, the fact that the connection exists at all is really disappointing.
>>29761206>Pagan religions have no interest in spreading beyond the cultures that worship them bub.That sounds like their problem, not mine.
>>29761206it's not christianity's fault if pagan faiths were passive, myopic and unappealing.
>>29761109There is no such thing as Christianity. The jesus churches are divided as fuck.
>>29761287Agreed. To be human is to grow, develop, inspire and encourage.God doesn't want humans to derp around in caves and dusty old temples. It's easy to see why Christian European conquerers saw tribal pagans as barely human.
>>29758315The rise of Julius Caesar and the death of the Republic to a string of pettier and pettier tyrants had nothing to do with Christianity.
>>29761306>There's no such thing as a flower because there are lots of different types of flowers
>>29761367Yes, because xenophobia is easy when your moral compass is weak.Also, I would hope that your god doesn't want to label arbitrary nonharmful things as sinful either.
>>29761256Ok so whats the bullshit about " They thought they could conquer and enslave us?"
>>29761055Any examples on heresy rooted in science?
>>29758608I'm more worried about how many morons in public office believe that but haven't been dumb enough to say it out loud.
>>29761396Christians were subject to all kinds of horrifying abuse in Rome.
>>29758618And, in the mean time, help plunge that world into the depths of the dark ages.
>>29761439Keep in mind that it was for repeatedly committing treason.
>>29761206>pagans never conquered i the name of their godsYou're joking, right? It happened all the time.When nations fought, they also believed their gods were fighting. Whichever nation won had a stronger god, and the other nation had to assimilate. If they were taken as slaves, they even had to get new names to reflect the new gods they were supposed to serve.You never read the Iliad, bro?Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego?
>>29761076>mfw I hate being Irish because of the pathetic drinking culture and associations it brings with it>mfw I don't even drink
>>29761375>the death of the Republic was the fall of the Roman EmpireGet a load of this guy.
>>29761287>>29761367Contrary to what both of you are saying, Christianity was appealing because most of the pagan faiths around it didn't promise an afterlife as nice as ChristianityObserve>Greek Myth: Everybody who led meh lives goes to the Underworld, only the ones who did Epic shit in their lives will be noticed by the gods and be taken into Elysium.Hence in Greek society you had people pursuing perfection in what they do and the concept of Hero Worship (i.e. the worship of people who did epic shit and most likely are in Elysium, i.e. Alexander the Great.)And in Germanic society you had Valhalla, which also called for a life of heroic deeds as entrance fee. While those who led regular lives simply went to Helheim.And most people can't into doing epic stuff for most of their lives. Hence Christianity's popularity since it promises a better world for everyone after this one.If anything the Pagan faiths didn't want humans to "derp around in dusty old temples."
>>29761539I'm ethnically Irish myself, but born across the pond. Oddly enough, its about the only trait that really carried over here. That and for some reason everyone thinks luck of the Irish means amazingly good luck.
>>29761498>When nations fought, they also believed their gods were fighting. Whichever nation won had a stronger godExactly, which is why modern-day Asatru are retarded.The Vikings embodied that "might makes right, our god > your god" warrior philosophy. SO much so, that when Christianity came to Norway, the Vikings quickly embraced it. Because in their mind, there's nothing more dishonorable than clinging to a defeated god. That's equivalent to shutting your eyes and ears and pretending you didn't just get your ass kicked.Leif Erikson would laugh in your face if you told him you worshiped Odin.
>>29761582Yeah, it seems weird to think of now, but back then Christianity was really a religion for the common folk. You didn't need to be a noble dying in battle to get an eternal reward, and in fact you were spiritually better off then the rich fucks oppressing you. And it's you and your children who'll inherit the whole fucking earth.
>>29761582>in Germanic society you had Valhalla, which also called for a life of heroic deeds as entrance fee. While those who led regular lives simply went to Helheim.That always bugged the shit of me, because it's unfair to women.The idea is that all men should aspire to die in battle, but women don't really have that option. And of course, no Asatru I've ever met acknowledges this inequality, because Asatru are all dice-jangling neckbeards.
>>29761725Not as though Christianity is really any better in that regard, at least historically. I'm fairly sure that both faiths have improved in the modern age.
>>29761725There are other places to go when you die. The "Valhalla or Helheim" thing is made up.
>>29761768Yeah, but at least "only men go to Heaven" isn't a thing.
>>29761768well, woman do at least get into heaven.
>>29761498What I meant by "pagans never conquered i the name of their gods" is that pagans dont go to war out of a religious motivation to spread their faith.Ever read up on Hellenism and the Diadochoi bro? Where Greeks saw other gods as merely parallel versions of their Gods?The the various successor states didn't force their subject peoples, the Persians, Egyptians, Medes, and all the others to continued to worship their own Gods, while the ruling Greeks either1) Had separate temples2) Had theologies in that Greek gods and foreign gods are one in the same (i.e. Zeus-Ahura Mazda) and dedicated Temples to them in solidarity with their native subjects.
>>29761789I wanna be a waitress in Valhalla though. I wanna be around all those sexy warriors, and serve 'em drinks!
>>29761725>implying there were no germanic warrioresses>thinking the Roman attitude "women are for the kitchen" was a universal belief
>>29760895I cry when I think about the Great Library burning.I cry so much.Then there's this, for those that keep claiming Monks preserved information:>https://www.sciencenews.org/article/prayer-archimedes>Only remaining copy of Archimedes creating Calculus hundreds of years before anyone else>Scrapes the ink off, turns the pages, makes prayer book.
>>29761582Christian Here, my thinking on my faith is that God doesnt really care too much if you spend your life as a farmer or as a engineer or whatever, as long as you dedicate your life to him and tell your freinds about him. Generally, its a good idea to learn to read so you can read his word for yourself but even thats just reccomended. Only compulsory bit is saying that he's your boss above everyone else.I'm quite happy living in a modern home, with a brother who's studying computer engineering and biomedical engineering to be able to help people with prosthetics and long distance opperations, and I have freinds and brothers in vanuatu who are quite happy fishing and living in straw huts, and I dont think God is more happy with me or them. We love him and he loves us, even if we do different things.Thats another difference between christianity and Pagan faiths; the Christian God loves you, and died for you and wants you to talk to him and call him dad. I'm not an expert, but I'm not sure if Odin could give a rats about me.
>>29761620Lately I've found it to mean getting by by the skin of your teeth, speaking as another Irishfag.
>>29761850Question: does your god have anything against me making sexytimes with other women?
>>29761003Well yes some monastaries were like that unfortunately. No matter how hard one tries one always has to deal with politics. Like the lord who gave you the land to build the monastery says you have to give his sons priority placement or else he might forget to protect you from the local bandit gangs but we did take in a lot of the sons and daughters of poor folk, particularly if they showed talent. Not to the same extent as the universal public education systems you've got today (can't tell you how happy I was to see those put in place), but we did out best with what we had. It was the dark ages after all.Plus there was the fact that not everyone had to time to get an education. Its a full time job running a farm, even after they invented a plow let alone all the fancy machine you've got these days. In answer to your question "What changed" I suppose it was that everything was a lot less stable politically. Most people had to focus more on staying alive and growing enough food to eat and didn't have enough time to get an education. Which is why we religious types had to spend all out time keeping knowledge alive lest it disappear.>>29761006I dare say you're right. Though at the same time science doesn't have the answer to all the questions in life. And until it does we'll have to do.Though really I think that if we are to oppose anyone it should be fundamentalist atheists and religious people who both say that science and religion can't coexists and one or the other should be destroyed. As some who find both science and religion to be useful and necessary tools in navigating one's way through life I feel as though these people are telling me I have to chose between food or drink and cut the one I don't chose out of my life. No matter which it is I wont last for very long.>>29761109Jesus Christ its like I'm talking to a petty warlord again. Dude this is the attitude we've been trying to get rid of for 2000 years.
>>29761835Some monks preserved it, and others goofed. Theirs dingus' in every profession and calling.
>>29761901Actually, "you" don't have to do. You aren't necessary, at least not anymore. You might be popular, I won't deny that, but that's not the same thing; some people may need religion, but no one specifically needs Christianity, much less Catholicism.And you are willing, then, to change your mind on religion if certain of your previous beliefs have been proven wrong?
>>29761835>I cry when I think about the Great Library burning.modern historiography tends to hold that the library of alexandria wasn't all blown up in one big dramatic book-burning, it suffered a slow decline and decay as a result of various events. there isn't much evidence that christians were responsible for destroying the books.
>>29761109>being this blatantly religionistic while being so blind to what one's religion is actually about>being a crusader in year of our lord 2014>inb3 'lolwut you telling me christianty isn't about conquer and torturing into submission?'>Luke 9:51-56
>>29761889Yes, Sex is best as a one on one thing with someone you love, and are committed to forever.If your a woman, then also yes, he made sex and marriage to be between man and woman>However, if you don't it isnt 'go to hell, do not pass go do not collect $200. He also doesnt want you to lie or murder or be rude to your parents, but all of thats about following his rules because he's your boss. If he's not your boss, obviously your not going to follow his rules.
>>29762037I don't care who did it. Any destruction of knowledge or old stuff makes me so sad.Like those assholes that took Mayan pyramids apart for gravel.Or the jerkwads that destroyed the necropolis in Libya.Or the Parthenon getting used as an ammo dump and exploded.Works of art that can never be recreated again properly getting destroyed should be considered a fucking sin against humanity and punished as such.
>>29762081That is a rule that I will not follow, because it serves no purpose but arbitrary prudery. If not following that rule is worthy of punishment, then your god is actively malevolent, and I'd rather have a god that didn't give a fuck than one like that.
>>29761850Close enough.The Greeks believed that their gods were assholes and even made fun of them.The Romans lived in mortal terror of said fickle Gods (hence the term Superstition) and honoured them as much as possible.The Norse Gods only noticed heroes.The Chinese believed their gods are far to busy keeping the heavenly order in check to give a rat's ass about you. Hence Chinese folk religion worship their ancestors and, like the Greeks, heroes and honoured their Gods. Worship and honouring being two different things entirely.
>>29761109So, if you get murdered in a dark alley... does that mean that the assailant should go to heaven?>I mean, might makes right.
>>29757715>People getting butthurt about religion ITTRead some history nerds, this shit is interesting as fuck.
>>29762129And to clarify on this, I'd be totally happy to just be satisfied with one person I'm committed to... but because we're both women, that's suddenly against the rules?No. Your religion's game isn't worthy of being played.
>>29760215not the same guy, but as a current seminarian studying for the Episcopal priesthood, I would not say that such action would disconnect you from the Almighty unless they became the primary focus of your soul or otherwise acted as a distraction from spiritual maturity/growth via being given too high a mental/spiritual priority or somesuch. In any case, the whole doctrine of Hell wasn't really universally accepted until the middle ages, influenced heavily by milton and dante. Satan was originally not even a divine antagonist, rather having only directly played the role of angelic prosecutor in biblical texts up to the gospels, who's job was to test mortals. Lotta folks in Christian scholasticism these days don't beleive in hell or Satan as the Devil, it just hasn't trickled back down to the common parishoner who is still for a large part being influenced by the scholastic regression brought about by dark ages, the protestant reformation and counter-reformation, and in the United States puritanism and some forms of pentacostalism.
>>29762138and to date, no one has a clue what the hindus were thinking when they came up with their gods
>>29762129>"G-god is malevolent cause he doesn't want me to be a huge slut!"Okay.
>>29761620>I'm ethnically Irish myselfYeah, and every other white american alongside you. Face the facts, you've got more in common with Tryone then you do with any Irishman.
>>29762233Well, firstly, God is evil for actually considering something so minor worthy of punishment, but as I clarified later on, I wasn't even talking about that, just the fact that acting according to my own sexual orientation would be worthy of punishment.
>>29762233Not that poster.He's malevolent for many, many more reasons than that.>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/a-book-of-blood/
>>29761950Oh sorry I meant religion in general.As for changing my mind on aspect of my religion you're talking to aguy who was personally instructed by the Pope to shape the local church to fit with old pagan customs so it didn't disturb people too much and they could convert easier.I also watched all the changes the church went through over the years and am under no illusions that any religion is a static unchanging thing. The main point of religion particularly in the present day world is to help people find their way through life and to certain extent it has shape itself to fit the people it is helping. Unfortunately you fellows are living in an age of reaction so not everyone remembers this alas.>>29761906Precisely.
>>29762276So how are you on the whole homosexuality thing?
>Be strapping young viking>discover new lands to pillage, far to the west>pillage a monastery full of weak, skirt-wearing priests>take one of them as a thrall to teach you about this wealthy new land>invite him to fuck your wife
Religious arguments are /b/-tier guys.
>>29762320This is not an argument, this is a discussion. And a very /tg/-style one.
>>29762179Seminarian here again, pelase don't make the unfortunate mistake of thinking that the aforementiones person's religion is the definition of Christianity for all believers/practitioners thereof. We run the gamut ons uch issues, myself being of the belief that as long as you aren't abusing one another or obsessing over such things to the detriment of your spiritual maturity, it's all good. Even then, the latter case isn't bad per se, it's just not good either.
>>29762129Well, you've already decided that you know better than God about things, which is problematic.Its like if you have a kid, and you tell him not to do something. If he or she doesnt do what you say, its usually not because you think that eating that cookie was a travesty against man or pushing that other child will cause them long term trauma, but because they didn't listen to you when they should. Gods like that but on a much larger scale, he wants you to trust him and listen to what he says.You have the choice not too, but then you cant say your a child of God
>Be a book in the library of Alexandria >For centuries Greeks and Egyptians and all other members of known world come to my library to learn and advance Western Civilization's knowledge>Julius Caesar protected himself in my halls>Julius Caesar let a fire come to burn my friend books on accident>Romans own my city and protect me from outsiders>Great Scholars came and went>Some decided to stir civil unrest after reading my texts>Aurelian decided to quell the rebels in my city>mfw part of the rebels and romans burn more of my friend books>the Romans decided to move me to Serapeum temple to protect my surviving friends>I hated being moved>But people came and learned>Pope Theophilus decided that I was teaching Pagan knowledge and had my temple closed down.>Now only secret sects of people could come in and upkeep myself and the other books>By now I am in tattered disarray with all my friends>The Muslims conquer the temple and the last dusty remains of us>Being a Pagan temple, the Muslims have us burned.>MFW as I look down from Book Heaven, I see People arguing about Babylonian History and Batteries>In my bindings contained their entire History and their Inventions.>Learn that Knowledge is Power, but to most, it is too powerful to let fall into the wrong hands so it is destroyed
>>29762217Thats what happens when your civilization discovers the effects of Ganja early.
>>29762358If you don't have an issue with the quality of a good number of the posts ITT, you need to try reading the thread again. I'm all for religious shit in games, but I don't want to hear about how God is evil or how I'm going to hell. Leave that to /b/, and try to add something good to the conversation.
>>29758618You're about two hundred years too late if you want to be a monastery raider when Denmark has already been Christianised.
>>29762368I'm sure your particulars of religion differ from his, don't worry. Although I question whether your god would nuke me for being atheist as well.>>29762375I'm not declaring that I know better than God, only your particular denomination of Christianity. I doubt your god exists. And your analogy falls apart on three fronts. First, the fact that children may be told these things early in life when they can't understand why it would be considered a bad thing, but then are directly told more detailed information as to why it is as they age, which God clearly doesn't do. Second, children aren't held fully, grossly responsible for the things that they do when they're still children, particularly things that are so minor. And third, you don't fucking disown your kid for eating cookies.
>>29762257>the Irish aren't Tyrone
>>29762375Not who you were responding to, but If you are truly a Christian, as I consider myself to be, then you should know that you have no right to proclaim that others are or are not children of God. Judgement is not yours to give, interpretation of divine command is not yours to stratify, and just who does and who does not follow or belong to the Lord God Almighty is not within your power to define based upon such relatively inconsequential portions of doctrinal detail.
>>29762436I do, but there are shitposts in literally every thread, and they have not led to a shitstorm here at all. Chill, it's an interesting thread. If you don't find it so, then do contribute to the parts you find good rather than pointing out what you don't like.
>>29762522Can I say that Cathars weren't?
Catholics > Other Christian Denominations>hurf durf but pedosEat shit.
>>29762552I'm just trying to inspire the spirit of self-moderation!
>>29761882From my personal interpretation based upon how the family uses it, "luck of the Irish" means shit luck, because Ireland don't got any of the good shit.
>>29762608Noble, but I don't think it works that well.
>>29762129Actually we put the rule about being married first in to keep caps from impregnating a girl and then leaving her. Great way to attract women to the church. Also prevented a lot of civil level strife. True it doesn't fit very well with your modern society what with these birth control pills and people not getting married at age 16 anymore but at the time it really was a good idea.>>29760273It was the dark age. You really had to make your own fun back then. Makes me wish RPGs had been invented. ^_^
>>29762623>ProtestantsI cannot comprehend this levels of shit taste.
>>29762623what about us elizibethians, or the coptics, or hussites, or miaphysites, or nestorians?
>>29762651Hence the MAD.
>>29762179Its not as against the rules as you might think. A lot of the biblical text should be interpreted with historical reference and literary critique for it to be properly understood.
>>29762676Nestorian is before Cathar, Coptics and Miaphysites after Orthodox, and Anglican before Orthodox (barely).
>>29762623>protestants>not the worst.wow its like you are literally made of retarded.
>>29762672>>29762883Still buthurt I see.
>>29762516isn't there a region in Ireland named tyrone?
>>29762672>>29762883Honestly Protestant is too general of a term. I mean, Quakers are the most chill people on the planet, but Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons exists.
>>29762947mormons certainly qualify as their own branch, if not their own religion, given they have their own holy book.they're not so bad anyway, just kind of weird.
>>29760990God fuck! What is that? Seriously, who is she?
>>29762623I don't see Gnostic anywhere on that list.Guess it's too far above to even be compared.
>>29762942County Tyrone, yes. Its in the North though. So its not a part of the Republic of Ireland.
>>29763019Ah yes. Below Judaism
>>29763079I'm sorry you acknowledge a false god that feels the need to parade it's own vainglory in this painful world.
>>29762623Catholicism and Judaism are both better than Islam, mudslime fag, even when they were rebelling against the Empire, committing treason against the Divine Emperor.Which is the only reason I dislike them.
>>29763019the cathars and manicheans were gnostic, weren't they?
>>29763387Yep. Authority doesn't handle truth well.
>>29762304Growing up in the kind of environment you find in pre-modern societies above all impresses upon you the importance of practicality. I've been watching the whole debate on homosexuality from up here and practicing it in your modern era is fine. The whole reason it was forbidden so long ago is because most children died before they were a year old and so if there was to be a next generation you had to keep everyone's sexual energy focused on the kind of sex that would produce more children. Its the same reason we forbade masturbation and other sorts of non-procreative sex. So considering they fact that you are facing them opposite problem we were, that they are too many people and adding more might cause a population crisis, I'd say God is fine with all the non-procreative sex you can handle.>>29762376I has a sad now.>>29763281Mari go back to the Fifth Ring, you're drunk.>>29762113The fucking Mongols destroying the libraries of Baghdad.
Have I got a book for you...4th ed is actually better, fluffwise
>>29763463I strongly dislike your implication that suppressing other peoples' sexual orientation was in any way acceptable, but if you're not smiting people now for it, it's... not good, but tolerable.
I tried telling a friend this.He was a total dick to me and basically said, "Nuh-Uh, cause of Arabs!"
>>29760818>Learning eastern martial arts>Not learning based Greek PankrationIt's like you don't care whether you win the martial arts tournament or not.
>>29763538Tell him the Syrians were the only ones who got Christianity right.
Is it true the knights templar formed out of an order of paladins who would guard people who chose to make a pilgrimage to jerusalem?Did they acquire their wealth by guarding merchant caravans and outposts who would cater to pilgrims on their way to the holy land?
>>29763463But Donchadd, I don't want to. AND WHEN WILL YOU FUCKING IRISH DIE SO WE CAN INVADE AGAIN.The General still gets mad you beat us back.
>>29763698"paladins"basicaly body guards, keeping people away from pilgrims.
all the history books say they earned their wealth "stealing" from the arabs, but is it stealing if they stole back the sites and artifacts that had been taken from them to begin with?I guess thats kind of like asking if its "treason" for a native american who rebels against the United States.
>>29760974Pretty much. Hell, the Vikings were all for butsex, you were just a fag if you took it up the ass.
>>29763715Rome never really invaded Ireland. Some probing may have been done under Gnaeus Julius Agricolabut nothing ever came of it. Most Roman influence was cultural and economic. Even then, Ireland remained culturally apart form the Empire enough to be the center of a branch of Christianity separate from Rome until St. Patrick.
>>29763827There you go, applying Roman standards to foreign cultures like a good little Imperial Dog.
>>29757715Hey OP, tell me about how the Chinese civilization also needed religious nuts to protect their millennial culture and knowledge.
>>29763861Actually. The Irish Catholic Church was pretty much separate from the Roman version until after Henry's first invasion in the 1100's. Which happened because the Pope at the time, an Urban, I think it was, basically said "Yo, Henry, look, I know you got Scots to try and fight and Anglo-Saxons to repress, but I need you to go over here and fuck these guys up. If you do, I'll declare you King of Ireland. Oh, and please to be killing their version of Christianity, it's fucking heresy. Thanks.">>29763897You got a problem with Roman standards, barbarianfag?
>>29763801is it stealing if you steal from a thief or is it just getting stolen property? yes its still stealing, its just a little more justifiable.
I wish I could play with these themes in my Rogue Trader game, but its so different on the expanse...plus the geography of the fluff is kinda crap. 75% of the expanse basically has a sign that says, "Don't go here."
>>29763947>You got a problem with Roman standards, barbarianfag?Yes I have a problem with an intolerant, narrowminded, status-quo, conservative, innovation-killing worldview that imprinted itself on the Roman Church and STILL holds the Western world under a yolk of Patrician rule you intellectually stifling automaton.
>>29764054plus my players are full blown retards most of the time.
>>29761725Excuse me, Germanic faiths weren't christianity.Women killed people fairly often. Most of the pagan faiths treated women better than the Abrahamic faiths. I mean, they still got treated pretty shitty, but it's not hard to treat women better than the Abrahamics.God fucking forbid you rape a celtic woman.
>>29764081>and you are using latin script
>>29764081fellas, fellas, surely we can work out a deal?
>>29764184and a good laugh was had by all at the jews expense...
>>29764219poor jews. it is comically relevant to the discussion at hand though. Medieval History, such raciss, so wow.
>>29764174>implying the Romans didn't steal the alphabet from the Greeks along with their religion>>29764184speaking of conservative...
>>29763512I've seen this talked about around the forums. What is it?>>29763519Cool.>>29763538Telling a friend what?>>29763698Yes that is how they started out. Dangerous things pilgrims routes back in the old days. And back then spending your life keeping people safe so they could make a pilgrimage did make you a paladin in the eyes of most folk.From what most of the Templars up here have said they first acquired money the way most monastic order did by being granted lands and drawing revenue from them. Its when they went into banking that they really got rich. Until the 1300s when Italians started setting up banks the Templar were the only game in own as far as banking went.>>29763715You never invaded Ireland you silly sot you're thinking of Scotland. And you're not invading anyone anytime soon. The modern Italian military doesn't have the most impressive track record.>>29764174>letrollface.jpg
>>29764081how can the western world be governed by a "innovation-killing" worldview when, by any standards, there's been more innovation in the last 400 years of western civilization than the entirety of human history before that?
>>29763698They acquired their wealth by learning about castles directly from the Byzantines and then using those castles as early banks because they were the most secure places in Western Europe, but yeah they started out guarding pilgrims.
>>29764291Because the Romans were long dead and THAT'S RIGHT AFTER THE PROTESTANT REFORMATION TURNED IT'S BACK ON THE ROMAN CHURCH FANCY THAT.
Whats the matta?Germans like swards, Romans like swards, lets buy some swards, eh? I'll tell ya what, buy 2 swards, i'll throw in a third sward fer free, eh? Hey Irish, you want a free sward?Ah, of course ya do!!
"Chase Pilgramage" Chase he who matters.
The best gift the Roman Empire ever gave the West was it's own death.
>>29764081>butthurt Carthaginian detected
>>29764081Just because we're xenophobic and hell-bent on conquest doesn't mean we're intolerant, narrowminded, innovation-killing, and conservative. I mean, have you HEARD about some of the parties Decimus threw back in the day? Jupiter, I shudder to think what his wife would do if she found out.As for the yolk of patrician rule>not wanting to be lead by good, noble men>not wanting a General Marius or Julius to be your leader>not wanting to be lead by the future of Rome's politicsPlease leave you silly Greek. We don't want your silly ideas about women being equal, or slavery being a bad thing.>>29764184We nailed enough of you to crosses to know you're being silly.>>29764432>ass-blasted CarthaginianCARTHAGO DELINDA EST
>>29764435>Irish MonkYou had such promise. Why did you bend the knee?
>>29764467>Please leave you silly Greek. We don't want your silly ideas about women being equalBehold, Roman knowledge outside of the military.
>>29764520>women>women in the Senate>women votingSuuuuure. SUUUUURE. You keep telling yourself it'll happen.
>>29764544My dismissal of your argument was based on the fact that women in Greece were the most secluded and oppressed women in the history of the world.AND THE ROMANS SUCKED THAT GREEK COCK LIE THEY ALWAYS DO HEY LOOK AT WHAT THE GREEKS DO LETS COPY IT AND THEN PAT OURSELVES ON THE BACKS FOR BEING ALL CIVILIZED AMIRITE BRUTUS.I'VE NEVER HAD AN ORIGINAL THOUGHT BECAUSE THAT'S FOR FILTHY BARBARIANS AND BOY-LOVING GREEKS.
>>29760818>be Chan Buddhist sage>see noone has achieved enlightenment at Shaolin in decades>everyone just goes for the martial arts>try to talk to the abbot about it>he punches me 40 feet in the fucking air>fucking a
>Be Lao Tzu>Just watch all this argument>,,,>Take a nap
"Wells Templar" Together We'll Go Far...I think its impossible to know all the worlds history. There is always going to be a blank spot in one period in time or region.I think I learned more about history from roleplaying than I did from my history books.for me, its 1400-1700 AD in western europe. Also, the Chinese Dynasties tend to all blend together, I think religion was a better marker for their social progress. I can tell a Hun from a Mongol, buts thats about it. And the middle east is perhaps the most overblown, over-inflated region of historical import to ever have been recorded.
>>29764472Who's bending their knees. I heard their ideas and for the time I was living in they seemed to be the best ones anyone had.>>29764467Don't forget the insanity causing lead plumbing Marius. You always forget the insanity causing lead plumbing you fellows were so fond of.
>>29764842Oh and all that sugar of lead you kept putting in your wine. Seriously what was it with you guys and poisoning yourselves with heavy metals?
>>29764840See, everything that happened during that period in medieval history had already happened in the middle ages, it just hadn't been implemented on such a wide scale because of the factious nature of europe at the time.
>>29764842There's absolutely nothing wrong with lead plumbing, Donnchad.>>29764652>implyingThe Greeks looked toward the past. We Romans built the future and our city is the Eternal City. You're just jealous you haven't been relevant since Alexander died.>>29764891>heavy mealsI ate bread and olives with some cheese. Sometimes meat. And wine. All that glorious, glorious wine. Nothing beats Legionnaire wine, let me tell you boys.
Germany, France, and England (plus englands sattelites) were all basically at each others throats for 400 years from about 1000AD to 1400 AD, and Italy and Spain were rebuilding after the dark ages.We point at the spanish inquisition during the times, but before 1400 AD, that was pretty much everyday life in medieval times, you'd get killed for farting at the dinner table.
>>29764932>our city is the Eternal CityTell it to the Vandals.
>>29764789>Be Mozi>See Laozi taking a nap>Build fort around him while he sleeps>I like defending forts>It's a passion
>>29765005after that it became all about the trade and the navies, if you didn't have a navy and were land locked you weren't shit.
>>29764932>Nothing wrong with lead plumbing>Never ate sugar of leadI point to poor old Nero as evidence that you might be incorrect.
>>29757715But what does this have to do with traditional games?
>>29758315But that's wrong you dipshit. Edward Gibbon was talking out of his ass. There were numerous reasons for Rome's fall: constant infighting, over-reliance on mercenaries, lead in the water, the threat of soil exhaustion, the decline of the citizen-soldier, etc.What you said was one of those things that was so wrong that I am paralyzed with indecision as to where to start.And then there is your idiotic assertion that christians did not serve in the legions.
We talk about chinese dynasties all the time, but they are all the same to me. Ming, Ching, Wong, Tong, who cares? They are all just a bunch of names carved on a vase.The real demarcation in chinese cultures is defined more by their enemies and their religion. The Huns and the Khans were always tearing shit up, making trouble for everyone. Then taoism, confusionism, and the spread of Buhdism are all good markers of societal progress.
>>29762376That makes me almost as sad as the destruction of the Baghdad library by the Mongols
>>29765239Christianity was, if anything, a call to more honest and humane government, Rome was corrupted by its own Hubris and power, it was doomed to become an empire the minute it turned its back on democracy and started "electing" kings.
>>29757715Dare you enter my oceanic realm?
>>29761031>Also, no ChileansTruly a glorious troll.
>>29761405Well... there's, you know, the really well known Galileo controversy.
>>29765291lol. we need viking traps now. and viking femdom. basically any fetish that lends itself to a viking theme.
>>29765391what? the russians and the germans get them. (and frankly, the greeks and the romans don't need any more help)
>>29765362what about coppernicus?
>>29765362>>29765485True story: Both of them thought their critics were the heretics for interpreting the Bible too literally, and called them out on it. Rome just chose the wrong side, again.
>>29765291Dare you enter ours?
>>29761795Except as the guy you're replying to pointed out: if you read the Iliad, for example, you see war described as between the gods (between Athena and Ares), and this justifies the conflict. Look at the actual history books, and you see Greek kings justifying war against other city-states by deferring to prophecy.You may argue that they were 'really' going to war over land, or to expand their sphere of influence, but that's true of every nation in history. If you think the Crusades were actually motivated by religious piety and not geopolitics, I have a bridge to sell you.God only ever served as justification for going to war, just like Athena or the oracle at Delphi did.
>>29765511It's never going to happen.
so you know the mujajadeen have basically been using the burka to disguise their troop movements for thousands of years, right?I mean, its so obvious when you think about it. I'm looking at YOU, yellow dancer... (hehe, robotech reference... classic!)
>>29765511but what if you're a duuuude?
>>29761835A vast number of the works lost in the Library of Alexandria were preserved by virtue of having been translated into Arabic by the Mu'tazilite Muslims.
unfortunately, our TRUE leader is an effeminate faggot, like every true leader since Alexander has been. How do we sneak him out of the castle so he can spy on his retainers without being discovered?I know! We'll turn him into a trap!
>>29765507Its interesting to think what would have happened to Galileo if he had stayed within the borders of Venice (more specifically, Padua) when he published his findings.
>>29761835you do understand the difference between historically significant factions and ordianary duchebags, right?Its not easy to commit apostasy in the name of your faith.
>>29762113>people living in areas of great monuments built by rulers of times long gone>desperate need of stone for building defenses and sheltersNo but, yea those people are shitty for doing something practical with an old monument that does nothing to protect them from the next culture that comes in destroys everything. It sucks that things get lost, but most of the time there are good reasons for why they're lost like that.
isn't it weird how every historical country has a similiar but oppisite counterpart?greeks/ romans, coppernicus/ gallieo. Almost as if two forces were actively stuggling to control which version of history we get taught, while excluding the other...
>>29765737*countryI meant... uh, not sure what i meant, but you get the gist of it.
did greeks precede the romans, or were they in fact the same civilization? Well, probably, but you never really know what gets lost in the haze of history.
>>29765808Two different cultures and civilizations, Anon. Us Romans came after the Greeks, but we were undeniably better.
>>29758147>fuck yeah aristotlethanks for perpetuating a bunch of rank fucking nonsense you bald motherfuckersin all seriousness though, of course people cannot into the complexity of the past, especially if they wear fedoras while talking on the internet
>>29765737>>29765782Move along everyone nothing to see here. Just a server error. It will be... dealt with shortly.
>>29761003First of all, "Dark Ages" is shitty historiography and shitty Renaissance/humanist propaganda. No serious historian uses it anymore. Ancient Greece and Rome had huge slave populations which meant a large number of people were forced into agriculture allowing for the poor citizen families to at least be able to spare someone from food production. Compared to Christian Europe where slavery was (mostly) illegal and the economic system had shifted towards subsistence farming, there was very little room for children to do something besides food production. If you look at the situation of the major maritime Italian cities of the middle ages (Venice, Genoa, Pisa, etc.) which were in a different economic system you do see poorer people gaining access to education or even long distance trade merchant activities.Get a basic education in Antique and Medieval history before trying to assert a broad sweeping argument like you are.
>>29765362>Well... there's, you know, the really well known Galileo controversy.Which had nothing to do with the science, the book being printed with full Inquisitorial and Papal permission.The problem was that the geocentric strawman was widely held to be Pope Urban VIII who despite being a friend and supporter of Galileo was busy racking up an enormous amount of debt, trying to expand the papal states, and had pretty much lost the support of all the Spanish clergy leaving Urban VIII in a very poor mood when it came to being publicly satirized.
>>29766466That's interesting. You happen to have a source handy? I'd like to read more.
>>29766605On Galileo and his problems with strawmen? Wiki probably has decent sources listed.On the Papacy of Urban VIII? I'll see what I can pull together.
>>29765737>>29765867It happened.̢͡.͟.̢After Å̶̜̻̯̦͐ͮ̿ͥ̋̒ͭ̎͝l̾ͭ̇͌̀͛҉̸̭͙̞̮̦͙̫e̗̖͉͔̪͎̳̓̄̂́xander's conquestThey were tired of singul҉a͏̡r̡͜͞ powersThey used anci҉̕҉e̶n̡t̵̕͝ At̷͢h̶̵̢ȩns and S̑̍̑҉̦̙̖̭͙̱p̖͉̳̭͖̠̱ͮa͚͈͎͓̪̎̋ͨ͌̆͡͝rta as their modelsTwo p̷҉̺̦̮͈̼̯͞o͍̲̳͎͞͡ẃ̵̼̫̦̮̟̦͇̻̠͜e͏̴̘͈̰̀ͅͅͅr͏̼̜̯̙ś̻̮̠͢ vying for control, and making their Citͭͬ́̿̎ͤ̉͌͢͞i̔̍ͣ͊҉̴zͨͮ̊ens prosperous as a result.When his E̗̭̰̝̤̾̋̍ͦ͛̾̈́̿͠m̢̞̼̝̻̙ͫ͛͗͐̐ͨp͇̎̍ͣͅiͮͨ͑ͤ͞҉͍͈̮̲̺̮̠͟r̜͚͓̻̹͖̞͙̂̽ͧe̴͙̖̞̳͌̿̀ͅ fractured, ť̨͎̝̘̦̪̟͇̩ͨ͂̈͊̇̾̏ḩ̵̰̝͎͖͉̾̚e̶̩̜̣̦͕̠̦̝̒̔ͩ̅ͥ̑y͒̄ͦ̈́̆ͮͨ̔̚͞͏̝̳͓̗ made sure it would stay that way. Without a powerful rival, c͙̺̠̦͛̉̈̆ͭ̑̕o̮̞ͬ̍͌̌̄̊̑̀m̸͙͔̙ͮ̋̃ͫ̈ͬ͜͠ͅp͙̘̜͓̻͚̞̿͂̿̈ͧ͗͞l̢̛̖͖̙̭̭͖ͩͬͤ̔ͪͨ͜a͉̠͎͎̣̰ͮ͒͢͡ć̈́͆̔͛͊̓͋͏̯̺͙͔͘ͅe͛́̆̉͑͑ͫ̚͏̹̺n̸ͬ̀͛̇͊̐̒̑ͫ͏͕͓̫̩̙̫̮̗̯c̬̦̼̽̆ͯ͑͗̒ͤ͛ͣ͜ͅe̦̠̥͖̙̺̅ͫ͞͠ ̯͉̭͇ͬ̓͘w͈͚͙͕̤̙ͫ͡͡í̸̩̥̓̀͜l̷̨̗̼͖̳̝ͬ͛̅̽l̗͓̃̇̃̄̌͑͘ ̢͆ͮͯͣ͗̈́ͣ̄҉͔͉͖̻̘b̰̦̅̏ͤ͐ͬḛ͚̮͚͇̭̹ͤ́ͮ̀̍̌̉̚̚̕ͅ ̸͎̯͔̣̖̿ͮͤͥ͠t̖̪̽ͪ͟ẖ̱̓ͬe͙͓̙̝̩̟̗ͣ̏ͪ̈́̊ͫͥͦ͢ ̷̜͔̲͙͇͍ͯ̅ͯ̌̂͋ͤͯ͞d̷̺͈̟̪̦ͤ̌ͤ͗̇ͮ̌̀e̳̤̩̖̬̫͋ͨ̏ͤ̏ͦͧͮ͠a̦̪̜͕̬͚̩̔ͧ̈́̊t̻͔̫̥͈̽̔̓ͮ̏̍̎̎͆ͅḧ͈̰̬̱̪̰͉́̆̎̀͜ͅ ̶̲̝͔͎͓̋ͪͯ̈̍̇̕͞o̵̶̼͎̘̽͋̃ͪͥ͞f̻̟̳͌ͣͭ̌̽̿̏ͣ̀ ̷̸̩͍̱̰̃̌͛ć͉̝͂͐͋ͯ͌̄ͦ̚͢i̸̧̻̟̩͉̞̣̙͙͕ͮ̄̄̄ͤ̊͂v̶̧̮̳̀͒̍͛i̋ͦ̊ͮ҉̗̠̹̯li
>>29759185Pope Francis says that even atheists can enter heaven as long as they're, well, good (that first guy who decided that it's ok to wear a fedora/trilby while being a fat slob is probably destined for Hell, tho). It's almost a free ride these days.
>>29766847>even the elder gods don't care about Corinth and Thebes
>>29757715So speaking of this any one really like the new pope?
>>29766887>implying the Christian god doesn't simply need soldiers for the war Heaven will fight with the Elder Gods he deposedAnd I don't mean Jupiter and Mars Ultor and their ilk, either. I mean the Outsiders that Lurk, gentlemen. WHEN THE TIME COMES, WILL YOU HAVE THE CHOPS TO LAY DOWN YOUR AFTERLIFE FOR HUMANITY?
>>29766983But if god is all power full why is "he" not all of those gods at once just taking many forms over the years to amuse him self
>>29767052>implying any god is all powerful>implying he didn't just kill all the other human gods and take their duties upon himselfI need more wine for this shit, ladies. WE'RE DELVING INTO THE HEART OF THE MATTER NOW.
>>29766952He's pretty cool.
>>29766952Catholic here, he's an amazing dude and we could've have asked for a better public face for the Catholic church at this point in time. Now if the media could only just start accurately reporting on his encyclicals and public statements rather than being continually shocked that HOLY SHIT THE POPE IS ACTUALLY REAFFIRMING CATHOLIC DOGMA?THIS JUST IN, BEARS STILL SHIT WOODS.
>>29767403>Shit IN woodsI meant to say,
>>29758147>copying all of Aristotle by handBro, Plato was the driving influence of Christian theology for a very long time, as a lot of Aristotle's teachings were lost after the fall of Rome and the ones that did survive were disregarded. It wasn't until his principles were reintroduced to Medieval Europe through Spain with the Moors and cultural exchange with the Muslim empire that people like Thomas Aquinas got another look at them and said "Hey, this Aristotle guy was on to something, maybe we should go back over this stuff again..."
>>29766952He was an excellent choice for Pope, very much what the Church needs right now, and unlike his predecessor isn't burdened by his papacy obviously never going to be anything more than 'that guy after John Paul II'>>29766887Stop the presses the Jesuit Pope agrees with a theological idea that began in the Jesuits (unsurprising given their being missionaries) and was held by the 4 Popes preceding him!
>>29767467Huh? Wait... so what they hell was I copying all that time?
>>29757715Ireland is probably cursed.
>>29757715>mfw Catholic monks think they know shitThanks for destroying the Roman Empire faggots.
>>29766952No. He's as bad as any other and still maintaining the fucked-up social injustices of Church policy.
>>29761789There is only another place, Vanaheim, Which is basically Valhalla with a woman in charge.