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You know what time it is? It's Smashfucker time.
Since /tg expressed interest, here is a continuation of the las thread,this time with revised, hopefully non-shitty math blessed by the Ironfather.
I threw in as many named melee powerhouses as I could think of, though characters without Eternal Warrior or at least T5 will invariably go down in no time at all.
Warlord Traits and psyker powers were only considered if fixed. No character was fielded with a retinue. All psyker powers were treated as always working to keep things simple. Everybody involved is Ld 10 anyway.
All ablities that proc of the loss of a wound were considered to work once a one-wound threshold had been crossed by the wounds accumulated so far.
All combat was treated as a ongoing challenge, so shooting and charge boni were not considered.
Ironfather Smashfucker is a chaptermaster under Iron Hands tactics with the following gear: thunderhammer, lightning claw, artificer armor, Gorgon's Chain, bike. He costs 260 points.
He isn't equipped with digital weapons to reduce the needed workload a bit. Naturally, both Tempered Helm and Betrayer's Bane were also not included, given the nature of these tests.

Tier 1; the alpha predators:
Do the impossible, punch the unpunchable, smash the fuck out of Smashfucker.
Swarmlord - Victorious after two phases, with 2.08 wounds taken in return.
Skarbrand - Victorious after two phases, with 2.78 wounds taken in return.
Be'lakor - Victorious after three phases, with 2.07 wounds taken in return.*
Ghazghull Thraka under Waaagh! - Victorious after four phases, with 2.43 wounds taken in turn.
Notes:
* Invisibility is the way to go here, Hallucination is both less reliable and less effective. Smash was used in the third phase to provide Instant Death.

Tier 2; the cross counter:
Where both fighters manage to punch each other's light out at the same time.
Darnath Lysander - Both combatants are dead after six phases.
>>
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>>28818975
Tier 3; the warrior elite:
Managed to cause over three wounds regularly or nearly two wounds while possessing some form of Instant Death.
Ezekyle Abaddon - Dead after four phases, with 3.38 wounds dealt in return.*
Typhus - Dead after four phases, with 1.99 wounds dealt in return.*/* *
Mephiston - Dead after three phases, with 1.83 wounds dealt in return.* * *
Ghazghull Thraka - Dead after three phases, with 1.75 wounds dealt in turn.
Notes:
* Daemon weapons were considered as giving an average number of attacks a turn while also causing 1/6th of a wound a turn. The potential lowering of the user's WS was not considered for simplicity's sake.
* * An exceedingly close fight. 0.01 wound more and Typhus would be in Tier 2.
* * * Transfixing Gaze was considered as working every odd turn, starting with the first.

Tier 4; the cornered rats:
Managed to get at least one wound on their opponent.
Logan Grimnar - Dead after three phases, with 2.41 wounds dealt in return.
Kharandras - Dead after two phases, with 1.46 wounds dealt in return.*
Marneus Calgar - Dead after four phases, with 1.32 wounds dealt in return.
Asterion Moloc - Dead after six phases, with 2.0 wounds dealt in return.
Drahzar - Dead after two phases, with 1.08 wounds dealt in return.
Caldor Draigo - Dead after six phases, with 1.08 wounds dealt in return.
Jain Zar - Dead after four phases, with 1.42 wounds dealt in return.*
The Sanguinor - Dead after five phases, with 1.46 wounds dealt in return.
Notes:
* Stalker/Disarming Strike was treated as working for the first two turns, and from then on as working every other turn. Strictly speaking its proc chance is slightly lower, but this way was used for simplicity's sake.
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>>28818995
Tier 5; the punching bags:
Failed to get at least one wound to stick. It's a long list.
Kharn - Dead after one phase, with 0.46 wounds dealt in return.
Lelith Hesparex - Dead after two phases, with 0.4 wounds dealt in return.
Lucius - Dead after one phase, with 0.24 wounds dealt in return.
Farsight - Dead after one phase, with 0.22 wounds dealt in return.
Imothek - Dead after four phases, with 0.76 wounds dealt in return.
Obyron - Dead after two phases, with 0.68 wounds dealt in return.
Asdrubael Vect - Dead after three phases, with 0.72 wounds dealt in return.
Asurmen - Dead after three phases, with 0.9 wounds dealt in return.*
Sammael - Dead after three phases, with 0.45 wounds dealt in return.
Straken - Dead after one phase, with 0.3 wounds dealt in return. * *
Saint Celestine - Dead after one phase, with 0.2 wounds dealt in return.
Sebastian Yarrik - Dead after two phases, with 0.44 wounds dealt in return.
Notes:
* Going by statistics, there is either zero or one chance to proc Soulrazor along the way. Should be more, maybe.
* * What is Straken's first name? I could have sworn it was Adam, but looking him up I couldn't find anthing.

Points of Interest:
The key to tackling the Ironfather is to strip him of two wounds while possessing a weapon with Instant Death/S10. Everybody relied on this method to pull of a victory or a tie here, though Be'lakor and the Swarmlord would have won either way, it just would have taken them another two phases.
On the whole, I would like to direct some attention to Mephiston, who, despite his distressing lack of both AP2 and an Invulnerable Save, very nearly managed to punch Smashfucker's ticket.
Against Eldar, consider a second thunderhammer instead of a lightning claw. Disarming Strike will drag out any combat, so the additional investment of 15pts will swiftly pay for itself once you keep thunderhammering them.
Curiously, of the guys actually capable of defeating Smashfucker, only Be'lakor can match his mobility.
>>
>>28819008
>only HQ units
>>
>>28819008
>Mephiston, who, despite his distressing lack of both AP2 and an Invulnerable Save, very nearly managed to punch Smashfucker's ticket.
Was it biomancy Mephiston. Because I've found even despite his downsides, Biomancy Mephiston can be a rape machine if he rolls well.
>>
>Nameless Necron Overlord with 2+/3++ and MSS

>Win every time

>Laughing Crons.png
>>
>>28818975
I know this is pedantic, but would Asurmen be better than Karandras. He wounds less, but has an invuln, and if he causes one wound there is a one sixth chance of the dude dying anyway, never mind things like Master-crafted.
>>
>>28819071
No, Mephiston used his base powers. Biomancy Mephiston is of course far nastier, but as demanded I only calculated stuff (warlord traits, psyker powers) that characters can be depended on having at any given time.
>>
>>28818975
>Darnath Lysander - Both combatants are dead after six phases.
Why such a steep increase in rank from last thread? He did pretty poorly if I remember.
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>>28819071
>That moment when opponent rolls Iron Arm, Endurance, AND Warp Speed on Mephiston
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>>28819119
I fucked up in regards to his stats, I am ashamed to admit.
Also, he was severly affected by the new calculations for both IWND and Instant Death. The combination of those factors massivly buffed Lysander.
>>
Would you mind running the numbers for Kutlakh the World Killer? I play against a good number of marines who just happen to have chapter masters on bikes and I'd like a response other than tar pits.

> WS BS T S Wo I A Sv
> 5 4 5 5 3 2 4 2+/3++
Obsidax melee S 5 AP 2 Instant Death, Specialist weapon
>>
>>28819183
Sure thing, give me a minute to run the numbers.
Didn't the guy have a special rule for challenges, though?
>>
>>28819209
Roger that, Each fighter in a challenge roll D6 and add Leadership. For every point Kutlakh wins by his opponent loses 1 weapons skill, at Zero his opponent may not attack.
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>>28819228
Right. Does he have an established Warlord Trait?
Sorry for all the questions, but I don't own FoO yet.
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>>28819228
>>28819209
Death Incarnate gives Crusader
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>>28819165
no worries, your mathmagic is still impressive as shit.

>mfw my main-man darnath's still got it.
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>>28819255
>>
>>28819255
>>28819266
Kutlath the World Killer - Dead after four phases, with 1.16 wounds dealt in return.
Not to shabby for a Necron.
>>
Can we start doing primarchs? Or should we even bother?
>>
I'm assuming all the monstrous creatures were using smash to bypass Smashfuck's FnP?
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>>28819313

Dammit! Back to the drawing board . . .
>>
Could you do the Khornate Juggerlord?
Ws bs s t w I A sv
5 4 4(6) 5 4 5 3 3+/4++
Axe of blind fury +2s ap 2 daemon weapon
Votlw for hatred
And 4++ aura on a juggernaut
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>>28819474
He's my go to HQ and am hoping or the best. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
>>
>>28819359
Most of them have Instant Death anyway, so FnP is never an issue. Only Be'lakor doesn't, and he's doing better with his normal attacks until the last phase.
>>28819474
Will do it in a bit, right now I gotta leave for the evening meal.
>>
>>28819474
I'm not op, but All I can tell you is that Smashfucker makes 1'3 wounds per round to your guy (aprox).

Your guy would need 18 attacks to kill smashfucker. I'm couting flat values, not changing values after getting one wound, nor after losing hatred (i didn't even counted hatred here).

I didn't even counted the blind effect, so you are probably fucked there.
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>>28819008
Conversions like this one make me want to start a 40k army.
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>>28819474
>>28819488
Sorry, I am only getting back to you now, but dinner took longer than expected. Uninvited guests and all...
(I am going to assume a second CC weapon, for that +1 attack bonus.)
Khornate Lord - Dead in three phases, with 1.89 wounds dealt in return.*
* Daemon weapons were considered as giving an average number of attacks a turn while also causing 1/6th of a wound a turn. The potential lowering of the user's WS was not considered for simplicity's sake.
>>
>>28819075

What is his actual chance against something like this?
>>
>>28821549
>>28821549
It's difficult to calculate for, but assuming MSS works 50% of the time:
Smashfucker will kill him in eight(!) phases, taking 3.63 wounds in the process.
>>
Smashfucker vs. Smashfucker. How does that fight go?
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>>28821549
he has a 54.2% chance of failing his leadership test against MSS. If that happens, he's pretty much toast.
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>>28822432
69 phases before keeled over at the same time. Since IWND get's calculated a bit differently by >>28818975 it may be a few phases less. Or more. No idea.
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>>28822432
One way or the other, he wins.
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>>28821549
Like it says in >>28822498
Smashfucker can barely hurt himself, his strength comes from being hard to hurt. The Necron does not do enough damage even with the MSS buying him extra attacks.
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>>28823390
Seriously. His damage output is kinda mediocre, he just can tank so many punches that the blows with the thunderhammer invariably start stacking up.
I'd love it if the Axe of Medusa had Instant Death on a 6 to hit, instead of the pointless strength bonus. Or at least S+6 instead of +4.
>>
Still wondering if he can punch out Old One Eye (not really if, just how long it takes him)

Relevant Stats
WS3, S10, T6, W4, I1, A4+1d3, SV3+, no invul.
Reroll 1s to hit.
For every attack that hits, gain at extra attack roll, these do not generate additional attacks if they hit.
Regenerates on a 5+ on its turn.
>>
>>28823650
Gimme a minute to run the numbers.
Tyranid regen is rolled for each wound, isn't it?
>>
>>28823689
yes
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>>28823830
>>28823650
Wow, didn't see that coming.
Old One Eye - Both combatants are dead in two phases.
OWE dealt two times 1.38 damage, activating Instant Death via S10, while Smashfucker dealt 2.45 twice, overwhelming OWE's total wound threshold by a massive margin, even with regen.
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>>28824038
Well that's surprising.
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>>28824038
Well.
Old one eye is gnarly as fuck.
How weld he fare against Aterion Moloc, dear math-wizard?
Or one of thosef ancy Phoenix Lords.
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>>28824069
┬░Asterion┬░
>>
>>28824069
What, OWE?
Moloc would kill him in three phases, dealing 2.79 wounds in return.
OWE would kill all PL's without invul in two phases, four with Battle Fortune. The question is who can kill him in that time, basically.
I'm gonna do the PL's damage against him tomorrow, I can't handle dealing with Kharandras' Stalker ablity today. It's late, sorry.
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>>28824308
>dealing
I meant 'taking'.
I should probably go to bed.
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>>28824069
Explain me how his bonus attacks work and I'll calculate some PLs.
Does he get 4+d3 attacks and then +d3 for each hit made?
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>>28824370
One moment, will look it up.
By the way I have no ide what OWE is.
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>>28824370
4+1d3 attacks because crushing claws
scything talons grant rerolls of 1s

His special ability grants 1 extra attack for each hit. The extra attacks from this ability do not grant additional bonus attacks.
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>>28824577
>>28824308
Thahnk you guys.
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>>28824577
Did I get it right that he has no melee weapon and must smash to get AP2?
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>>28824617
I always thought Smash and by extension monstrous creatures automatically had AP2 even if they were not using it.

If that is not the case, I would consider an upgraded fex instead because they have 9 base strength.
>>
What kinb of save has a riptide hav e at the start of the game?
I ask myseld how much, on average, those d6+3 ap - wounds Lias Issadon causes would do to him.
About 7 on average and he has a 3 plus armor save?
So....3,5 wounds in average?
Sounds good too me.
Even though it may be wasted potential.
>>
>>28824680
Oh yeah, it does.
Thanks, gonna calc him vs Karandras.
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>>28824725
Riptides have 2+/5++ base saves, and most people give them FNP 5+.
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>>28824931
Fucking shit fuck.
Assault them or bust I guess.
Or ignore them, but I don't like that option.
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Karandras vs Old One Eye
Karandras re-rolls every to-wound because of Monster Hunter.
OOE rerolls one of 4 failed to hits and I assume that he fails first, than re-rolls 2nd, then fails 3rd and 4th and so on.

Round One:

Karandras hits with mandiblasters: causes 0.75 wounds, 0.25 unsaved.
Then begins to swing his claw: 4 attacks, 2.64 hits, 2.56 wounds.

OOE strikes back: 5.5 attacks, 2.03 hits (including re-roll), 1.68 wounds.
2 more attacks from the special rule: 0.55 wounds.

Karandras: 0.77 wounds
OOE: 1.19 wounds

Round Two:

REGENERATION TIME
Considering OOE lost 3 wounds, he gets back one. So 2 now.

Karandras does pretty much same and kills OOE if he is still alive.

Otherwise, with lucky enough rolls OOE stomps him in first round.
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>>28825268
Yay.
Scorpion man.
How strong are those c'tan shards by the way?
Up therei n top tier?
The old Nightbringer was so damn strong.
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>>28825404
Shards are more of support unit than a beatstick now.
And I say Karandras and OOE is pretty much equal.
They have 50/50 chance to kill each other.
The thing is that Karandras is a dedicated MC hunter therefore hits such characters like a truck.
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>>28825504
I can't think of many other eldar units, except for the avatar who could do that.
Good thing he has all those monster killing stuff.
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>>28825404
C'Tan shards are ok, but not really good enough to tangle with the big boys in 1v1 melee combat.

Relevant stats are WS5, S7, T7, W4, I4, A4, 4++, Monstrous Creature, Eternal Warrior.
>>
>>28825542
Strenght one point too low, otherwise really nice.
>>
How does a shadowfield, pistol and huskblade archon match up in that slugfest?
Stats are:
WS7, S3, T3, W3, I7, A4,+1 for pistol LD 10 5+/ 2++ (Until failed, then gone)

Huskblade has ap 2 and the instant death rule.
He might do quite well, especially with a soultrap to double his strength on a successfull ld ccheck afterk illing an IC or MC (max 10).
>>
Here's another one that might give Smashfucker a headache.

Great Unclean One with a Balesword and Eternal Blade.

WS6, S6, T7, W6, I4, A5, 5++

Poisoned 4+ which will translate into rerolls to wound, +1 S and +d3 WS, Initiative, and Attacks from the Eternal Blade.

So he's going to have on average WS8, 8 attacks, all wounding on 2+ with rerolls. Once Smashfucker gets down to 2 wounds he can switch to the Balesword for Instant Death if he wants.

He would also be rocking 3 Biomancy powers for potential Iron Arm/Endurance/Warp Speed, any of which would probably give him a win, but since we aren't taking random stuff into account for this we can't count those.
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>>28825730
Poorly.

He can't wound for shit, and if he fails a single save he'll die instantly from the S8 hit. Meanwhile Smashfucker still has his 4 wounds, 3++, Eternal Warrior, and IWND to keep him swinging.
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>>28825775
I will beat the ever loving shit out of this drum.

How does smash fucker fare against angron in assault?
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>>28825832
>angron

He dies. It takes a while, but he dies.

That isn't really a fair comparison because Angron is a goddamn Primarch, or a Gargantuan Creature depending on whether you're using his HH or Apoc rules.

Although given equal points to work with Smashfucker can indeed kill him, with a little help from the friendly neighborhood Inquisition codex.
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>>28825798
So no instant death I guess.
Then he is fucked.
only Drazhar could conest him then and even then rather poorly.
>>
What about a Chaos Lord with Mark of Khorne, Riding a Juggernaut, Sigil of Corruption, Axe of Blind Fury and Ichor Blood?

The Bloodfucker.

Someone do the maths, maybe?
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>>28828257
Already been done, in this thread even.

He dies horribly.
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>>28825869
>or a Gargantuan Creature depending on whether you're using his HH or Apoc rules.
? Did I miss something from Forgeworld?
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>>28828898
Angron has had Apoc stats for years.
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>>28829030
Yeah, he had the ability to bring a bodyguard of 13(!) Bloodthirsters with him IIRC.
>>
What kits should i use to model Mr Smash?
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>>28824308
Sorry for my late ruturn, I kinda slept in.
Assuming the same rules as the ones layed out in the OP:
Kharandras would deal 4.48 wounds per phase, instantly obliterating OWE without giving him a chance to strike back or regenerate. Jesus Christ.
Asurmen would die after four turns, having dealt 3.8 wounds in return and getting 3 procs of Soulrazor to resolve the fight instantly.
Jain Zar would die after two phases, having dealt 1.88 wounds in return.
Fuegan would die after two phases, having dealt 3.4 wounds in return.
Maugan Ra would die after two phases, having dealt 2.5 wounds in return.
Baharoth would die after four phases, having dealt 1.44 wounds in return.
>>28825730
Soultrap is functionally beyond the scope of this exercise, but I will do the math in a bit.
>>28825775
Balesword and Blade Eternal doesn't stack, as far as I know. As with all weapons, it's either/or.
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>>28831873
>Balesword and Blade Eternal doesn't stack

No, they don't, but you need them both to get the +1A for wielding two Specialist Weapons.
>>
bit of a tailored situation but how does a C'tan shard with gaze of death (str 3 ap 1 large blast over the shard at the end of each round of combat regains a wound if it causes at least one) and times arrow (initiative test or die at the start of each round, math is a nightmare just use to assume shard wins if it survives x rounds of combat). alongside a group of scarabs (deny rerolls from squad and provide a near guaranteed recovered wound)

If you need the stats its WS5 S7 T7 4+ inv and once it dies it explodes d6 inches at S4 ap1
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>>28832158
and accidentally highlighted some of it and typed over
Ini 4 W 4
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>>28832158
Unless he lucks out on the Time's Arrow he won't win, he just doesn't have the stats for it.

And nobody actually gives their C'tan that piece of shit upgrade.
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>>28832299
Like I said its a tailored situation (you and I both know that if it has gaze of death it's other power is probably pyreshards or grenade stealth).

It's more a matter of wether or not smashfucker can kill the C'tan shard since It's something like 1 of 3 non-iron arm characters he doesn't wound on 2's and with it regenerating a wound at the end of every round and the scarabs and gaze possibly killing his apothecary eventually it might work in he C'tans favour.
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>>28832158
It's kind of problematic in that this simulation goes out of it's way to avoid retinues, because the scarabs put that on wonky ground without allowing Smashfucker his own cheerleeders.
The shard would take 1.11 wounds a turn from Smashfucker, but regain 0.83 wounds per scarab base, up to a max of 1.
The shard would deal 0.37 wounds a turn over the first two turns, then 0.3 once FnP goes down by one and IWND kicks in by phase four. GoD would deal another 0.04 wounds per phase. During each phase Smashfucker has a 1/6 chance to pie to TA.
>>28825730
Going without Soultrap (because this is aFinal Destination type of thing, so no outside influences, and because the only other IC is likely part of the same unit as Smashfucker, so good luck getting to him):
Dead after three phases, with 0.57 wounds dealt in return.
With Soultrap going off once:
Dead after three phases, with 1.9 wounds dealt in return.
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>>28832423
>with it regenerating a wound at the end of every round and the scarabs and gaze possibly killing his apothecary eventually it might work in he C'tans favour.

What?

Its 1v1.

No Scarabs, no apothecary, none of that shit.

Also Gaze of Death has less than a 5% chance of actually landing a wound on any given turn, and is thus effectively negligible, so no the C'tan won't be regenerating any wounds.

The fight will be over in 3-4 turns with a Smashfucker victory unless he gets unlucky and rolls a 6 on his Initiative test.
>>
How's smashfucker do against character Dreadnoughts?

They will all have S10 from the DCCW and most of them are armour 13 so he only hurts them on 5's and 6's and as characters they can get him in a challenge.

If you want a specific one for math then Bjorn would probably be the go to dread.
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>>28832474
So, once he runs out of scarabs he's fucked, but before than he cannot be wounded?
Also, the biker command squad (shield/claw) would likely take the scarabs apart after the first round.
>>
>>28832493
Bjorn is WS7 and A4, right? I'm sorry, I barely ever go against SW, so I don't know their codex as well as most others.
Tiny, humorous fact: Biker retinue will probably have meltabombs, so he could just refuse and watch as his entourage grenades the poor old guy into slag.
>>
>>28832493
Bjorn would still lose. They end up having roughly equal damage output at slightly more than half a wound per turn, but that's before taking IWND and possible Penetrating Hits into account. Might be close, but math says Smashfucker wins it.
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>>28832567
Had to dig around but here's the stat line

WS 6 A 4 I 3
Venerable with a 5+ invul
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>>28832694
Right. Give me a moment to run the math.
>>
Here's a good one for the maybe crowd (although he probably dies quickly thanks to his wounds)

Sevrin Loth
Level 3 psyker, selects (not rolls) powers from Telepathy, Biomancy or Telekinesis (so guaranteed iron arm or invisibility)
Can spend a warp charge to gain a 2+ invul until the next player turn
Force Axe and bolt pistol
statline is
WS 5 S 4 T 4 W 2 I 4 A 3
>>
>>28832840
He's a shit. Its not even worth running the numbers on.
>>
>>28832493
>>28832694
So, both have functionally the same damage output, but Smashfucker has the potential to really fuck up Bjorn with a penetrating hit, half of his successful attacks are.
Still, without penetrating hits Smashfucker would be dead due to 2.16 wounds activating Instant Death after 5 phases, with 2.8 HP lost in turn.
>>
How's smashfucker compare to an archmagos dominus of the ordo reductor? (probably kick his nerdy shit in but let's see~)

Archmagos dominus
ws4 bs5 s4 t5 w3 i3 a2 ld10 3+
with:(no stat improvement from gear included in above profile)
-power axe as weapon+laspistol (they're armed with a power weapon but choose axe because smashfucker's artificer armour)
-machinator array (+1t, night vision, flamer, inferno pistol, and two attacks in addition to normal using s+1, ap2, unwieldy shred armourbane.)
-Abeyant (+1w, move through cover, hardened armour, and iwnd) hardened armour is ignore void dangers in ship combat and -1 to runs and charges distance.
-Mechanica Protectivum+cyber familiar for a 3++
-rad grenades, -1t to opponent for first phase of combat.
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>>28832869
addendum: mastercraft the axe if you feel like it.
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>>28832868
You're forgetting him regaining wounds from IWND, and due to Bjorn's low damage output that will be enough to keep him above the threshold.
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>>28818975
Why not give him, and hear me out here:
Two hammers? Then he can smash while he smashes.
>>
>>28832861
I wouldn't be so sure. With a 2++ and EW via biomancy he should be able to tank some serious damage.
Then again, his output is probably quite mediocre.
The thing that really gets me about him is that he *picks* his powers. Fucking forgeworld...
>>
>>28832919
shit like warlord traits and powers really shouldn't have been random...
and daemon's upgrades too.
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>>28832887
Nope, wounds regained are calculated in, otherwise he'd lose over 3.
>>28832888
Only relevant against Eldar, who's Disarming Strike can turn any melee into some tedious ordeal.
>>28832869
So he's T6 and W4, ifI'm reading this right?
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>>28832861
srsly? cos a 2++ every turn + iron arm/warp speed/endurance sounds good to me
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>>28832919
Only have 2 wounds kills him.

He's trying to have a damage race against someone who has 1 more attack, 1 more WS, and twice as many wounds. Its not going to end well even assuming he never fails (or god forbid rolls a Perils) on a psychic test.
>>
>>28832940
yeah, t6w4. mastercraft the axe and remember the extra attacks from the machinator array.
>>
>>28832861
Figured as much, just looking through the Forgeworld characters and outside of Moloc most either don't have a good enough save or are toughness 4 without eternal warrior, and the only one I can see even being a threat is Moloc who you've done the math for or the character dreads who are all Bjorn without ws 6 and an invulnerable save.
>>
>>28832940
>Nope, wounds regained are calculated in, otherwise he'd lose over 3.

Bjorn has 4 attacks, hitting on a 4, wounding on a 2, being saved on a 3+, with IWND negating .33 wounds per turn average.

That equals roughly 0.22 wounds lost per turn for Smashfucker. Its going to take fucking ages to get him past the EW threshold.

Meanwhile, Smashfucker has a damage output of just over 0.5, and half of the wounds that do go through will be Pens which will AT MINIMUM reduce Bjorns Attacks by 1, while also potentiall ripping off his melee weapon or outright killing him.
>>
>>28832944
I'll be taking a look at him soon. 2++, Iron Arm and Endurance seems the way to go here.
>>28832954
Will do. I'm kinda uncomfortable running numbers on this guy, dunno why.
Also: Mastercrafted weapons, bane of all calculations! Oh god, how I hate them...
>>
>>28832950
As a note he doesnt roll for the 2++ just spends a warp charge and get's it.

Also for his exact info he's page 3
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/C/Charcterupdate.pdf
>>
>>28832988
I made the same mistake you did when I started calculating this guy for the last thread.
IWND will only restore 0.16 wounds a turn, since it only works on the players turn. Also, it will only proc once an actual wound has been taken, i.e. a one-wound threshold has been crossed.
>>
Does anyone have Anngrath's rules?
I'd like to see how they match up.
>>
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>>28833074
Pretty badbly, since An'ggrath is a gargantuan creature and can just remove chapter master from the table with a stomp attack.
>>
Wish Forgeworld Huron had Eternal Warrior, with it he'd likely be a contender with his 4 S 4 Ap 2 mastercrafted, shred attacks that force rerolls on succesful invul saves. As it stands though he probably dies is the first round of combat
>>
>>28833011
Okay, I am apparently too stupid to work him out. Completely forgot his Force AXE on the first go and forgot his warp charge number on the second.
I think I need to take a break.
>>28832869
Assuming I didn't fuck up like I did above:
Dead after six phases, with 1.98 wounds dealt in return.
>>
>>28833263
Yeah. His 4++ isn't enough to prevent taking at least one statistical wound a turn, which would instantly spell doom for him.
>>28833194
That's surprisingly not all that good.
>>28831873
Kharandras is awesome?
>>
>>28833289
huh, i thought the magos would get shitwrecked. what made the difference?
>>
>>28833074
>>28833194
Smashfucker dies after two phases to S10 Instant Death, dealing 1.11 wounds in return.
>>
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>>28833341
Karandras is a goddamn meatgrinder.
Even as he dies nearly every time due to no invul, he manages to do top-tier damage with all of his re-rolls.
>>
>>28833380
The 3++ coupled with T6, W4 and IWND makes him quite durable. He doesn't need to fear Instant Death, so he can just start accumulating damage while Smashfucker whittles him down.
Mind, it's not enough to actually be a danager, but still, not bad for some nerdy guy who just got up from behind a desk and grabbed an axe. Certainly better than some of the supposed gods of war on the list.
>>
>>28833461
In the grim darkness of far future brains beat muscles.
>>
>>28833486

Brain muscles beat muscle muscles
>>
>>28833461
>Mind, it's not enough to actually be a danger
How would Smashfucker do against Walter White?
>>
>>28833461
He's probably the same guy that does the accounting in Dwarf Fortress. Or at least used to, haven't played in a while.
Locks himself in a room, starts calculating for a year or some and comes out of the room with shit like 'ultra-mighty', 'superdwarfenly tough' and 'perfectly agile'. And perfect knowledge of the future stocks of the fort, even of the times after his own death.
>>
>>28833560
Who?
>>
>>28833618
EW protects against Instant Death, no questions asked. Whether it comes from S=2xT or some other effect is of no consequence.
Only 'remove from play' effects get past Eternal Warrior.
>>
>>28833461
that magos cost 190 points, good job for him.

Also, i'm pretty sure any primarch dies when fighting equivalent points in castellax automata.

85point monstrous creatures~, three of them for smashfucker. he'd melt under that, i think. but that breaks the spirit of the challenge scince it's all 1v1 here.
>>
Okay, so I tried to work out the math regarding Severin Loth and failed repeatedly.
This is probably the best I will manage today.
Smashfucker dies after seven phases when Instant Death via force weapon kicks in, with 1.82 wounds dealt in return.
Loth used his 2++, Endurance and Iron Arm. In the last phase he dropped Endurance to use his remaining warp charge to activate his force weapon.
Again, this goes under the assumption that Severin (btw, totally a girl's name over here) passes all Ld tests. If he fails any single one except the fw activation Smashfucker will kick his teeth in. If he fails the fw one, he get's another chance the following phase, with both fighters killing each other simultaneously should he pass.
>>
>>28833395
Here's a quick question, since I can't find anything in Escalation in regards to that: Can gargantuan creatures still move out of CC at will? I'm assuming no since it's not mentioned, but they could for the longest of times, so maybe I am just missing something.
>>
>>28818995
Great work!

Did you take into account that you can take Invulnerable saves and Feel No Pain against Daemon Weapon wounds? So Abaddon would save 50% of those, and Typhus would save just over 50% - in other words, that 1/6 should be 1/12 wounds per turn.

I suspect this would at least put Typhus into Tier 2, and Abaddon would probably make it to Tier 1. Does you math agree with this?
>>
>>28829030
Oooooh, you mean his old Daemon Prince ruless? Yeah, I forgot about those. How do they stack up to his mortal days?
>>
>>28834832
Shit. It's something very close to exactly a bloodthirster's stats, except something like +1I, +1A, +1W, +1Ld, and he gets master-crafted on his weapon, and all enemies are -1Ld.

Was okay the way that the old 'dex worked, but now that daemons don't automatically have Eternal Warrior, neither does he...
>>
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>>28834832
>>28834948
>>
>>28834948
>>28834981
Wow, that is shit. He literally shouldn't have sold his soul.
>>
How well does Smashfucker fare against Daemon Prince Angron if he has his full retinue of 12 Bloodthirsters?

Would he just evapourate in the first round of combat?
>>
>>28834468
Abaddon does amazingly well considering that he doesn't have Instant Death on his weapon and doesn't get to a high enough Strength to cause it automatically.

Even so, I'm suspicious that he'd lose.
>>
>>28834468
I did in fact factor in FnP for Typhus' weapon, but did not include either guys' invuln, because I thought that the effect ignored all saves, not just armor saves, as I just read. Turns out I suck...
Practically speaking, it might very well push Typus into Tier 2, though a rough estimation makes me quite certain that Tier 1 is still out of his reach. Will have to investigate.
Abaddon's fight ends with a pretty large overkill on Smashfucker's side, so I think his position might not actually change, but, as we have established, I suck, so anything is possible.
I will include this info in the next pass. Thanks for pointing that out.
>>28836019
Nothing in the game can withstand thirteen bloodthirsters, not even the king of tanks, Scabateirax (or whatever his name is).
>>
>>28836482
Well there is one unit of legend that can rise up and face the bloodthirsters and even Maybe kill them.

10 Lychguard with 10 lords & 2 overlords.

12 MSS, 12 pokeballs, and 12 3++ saves.

6 of the bloodthirsters are hitting the rest of their unit and the lords all force wounds test after all the BT's have taken a wound or 2 from mindshackle while letting the Lychguard eat the wounds.
>>
ferrus manus versus smashfucker.. Begin!

ferrus goes first, due to smashfucker using the hammer (deals more wounds per turn, and after concussive kicks in, he will be going at i1 anyways)
he swings 4 times, and of those, 0.741 go on to cause unsaved wounds.
then smashfucker makes his 5 hammer swings simultaenously with ferrus's servo arm.
the hammer swings cause
both then regenerate 0.16666 wounds.
at the end of round one, ferrus has dealt 0.759 wounds
smashfucker has dealt 0.29 wounds.

ferrus is dealing over 2 times as many wounds every round, and has 2 extra wounds to begin with.
once smashfucker takes 2 wounds(at around 3 rounds) he loses eternal warrior.
the next round (number 4) ferrus declares that he has ad enough of this horseshit. he deals a 3rd wound, one which has no eternal warrior to protect.
in this time period, smashfucker has only attacked for 3 combat rounds. he dealt 0.8888 wounds, not even seriously injuring ferrus.

the only person i think could take out smashfucker with less wounds would probably be vulkan, possibly mortarion. their re-rolls on IWND gives them 0.2777 wounds per phase back.

next primarch will probably be vulkan.
>>
>>28836606
add 10 crypteks for shits and giggles.
or in a double force org chart.....

10 lychguard
20 crypteks
20 lords
4 overlords.
everyone gets a phylactery, and it is assumed that there is always a res orb.

can this beat the shit out of 12 bloodthirsters?
seeing as they have no EW on either side, this could potentially be incredibly silly.
>>
>>28836745
looking at vulkan's stats, he is the exact same thing as ferrus, but without FNP 6+ or the servo arm, but the better IWD.

the fight takes longer. and overall, vulkan takes over 1 wound. not 2 wounds though,

i dont want to math.
>>
>>28836764
Actually this is apoc (assuming not escalation since its the most expensive unit in the game)
If the Cron unit was at the same cost at 3500 points (assuming no upgrades on bloodthirsters)

you will have
4 Overlords
18 Lords
4 Crypteks with lightning fields
1 Cryptek with defensive grenades
20 warriors to absorb wounds
so the 12 bloodthirsters take 22 MSS tests based on base contact
22 pokeballs
1 res orb

when charging the bloodthirsters take 4d6 S8 hits which will probably outright kill one of them.

So if the cron unit doesnt fail leadership in the first round of combat then they will likely grind down the bloodthirsters (although if they pokebally at least 2 of them that's 10 wounds in their favour).

Realistically though you'll just walk a transcendent C'tan over drop the S D super flamer and kill half the bloodthirsters at least. But thats no fun.
>>
>>28836606
They're a formation, not a unit.

The bloodthirsters are only hitting themselves. They'll probably wound themselves and then probably take more wounds from Daemonic Instability. However, they'd all have issued challenges and so the Lychguard won't be doing anything until the lords are all dead.
>>
Can a squad of fully kitted 10 noise marines (7 sonic blasters, 2 blastmasters) take out Smashfucker in 2 turns of shooting?
>>
>>28837235
waitaminute as a formation that makes this even better
>>28836930
Now each bloodthirster that tries to charge the Cron unit is taking 4d6 S8 hits with an average of about 14-15 meaning each bloodthirster take about 4 wounds as it charges the unit plus one probably dying from overwatch (crypteks do 16 S5 shots and 1 S8 plus the warriors).
>>
>>28836482
>>28834468
So, went over both guys once more, this time including their invulnerable saves.
Abaddon's position remains unchanged, because I apparently forgot to calculate in the DW-based wound last time. Embaresssing, even though it results in no change in the overall structure.
Typhus also remains Tier 3, but even closer this time. We're talking about a difference of 0.03 wounds per phase. Just 0.12 wounds less and Typhus would likely join Lysander in Tier 2.
>>
>>28837333
Can they do the same damage as 181 las-guns at short range can? Because that's the number you need to bring him down in one go, according to the last thread.
>>28836745
Actually, Ferrus would win even faster, because ID would kick in as soon as Smashfucker lost his second wound due to the way Gorgon's Chain is worded.
>>
>>28837772
>>>28837333 (You)
>Can they do the same damage as 181 las-guns at short range can? Because that's the number you need to bring him down in one go, according to the last thread.
dunno, they ignore cover though, have S4, blastmasters 5/8 and each deal 3 shots when not moving due to salvo.
>>
So what the fuck is Ironfather Smashkill? Some Iron Hand stuff?
>>
>>28837348
Assuming each bloodthirster is dumb enough to charge one unit. If they gang up on a small number of units at a time, maybe four into one, four into two, and four into a third, they'd have no problem.

Plus, even though you'd get corresponding points to spend, a sprinkling of Rewards will make them significantly more powerful.

Also, don't forget that Angron makes them -1 Ld for their fear tests.
>>
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Ironfather Smashfucker vs The Devourer of Hope.

Could you try mathhameering that?
>>
>>28837583
Wow. That's a real close call.

How would Ironfather Smashfucker do against PermaWaaagh! Ghazghull if he had the Shield Eternal rather than the Gorgon's Chain? He loses 1 attack and 1 from his FnP, but doesn't lose Eternal Warrior once he loses 2 wounds.
(It's clear that it wouldn't make a difference in the rest of the Tier 1 cases.)
>>
>>28837899
see >>28818975
>>28837839
Well, let's see:
Sonic Blaster: 21 shots at S4, 14 of which hit, wounding 4.67 times. 0.78 go past the armor, 0.52 past the FnP.
Blastmaster: 4 shots at S5, 2.67 of which hit and 1.33 of which wound. 0.22 go past the armor, 0.14 past the FnP.
Together these cause 0.66 wounds on the first turn.
Another 0.66 wounds second turn, proccing IWND, regening 0.16 for a total of 1.16 wounds taken, and also reducing his FnP to 6+ for future phases.
>>
>>28837993
Can't do the whole math with what is provided, but assuming WS8 and no defensive biomorphs:
Smashfucker deals 0.07 wounds per phase to the Devourer of Hope.
>>28838197
Smashbane kills Ghazghull in six phases, taking 3.34 wounds in return.
>>
>>28837993

I'm pretty sure he'd get rekt.

He hits Devourer on a 4+, so 3 hits. Then he needs a 6 to wound, and the Devourer has a 2+ save against his hammer. He won't even be able to hurt it with his lightning claw. If the Devourer has rolled Endurance, it will get an additional 5+ FNP against his attacks, and will heal itself a wound on a 5+ every other round.

Meanwhile, the Devourer of Hope hits him on a 3+ with 4 attacks, so probably 3 times too. Then it wounds him on a 4+(if he's on a bike), and he has an invuln save and FNP.

They won't be able to kill each other for a while, but the Hive Tyrant will hurt him faster than he can hurt it back.
>>
>>28838301
Oh shit, completly forgot that Smashbane has one A less than Smashfucker.
BRB, redoing math.
>>
>>28839285
>>28838197
Well, doesn't change anything in terms of time taken or damage done to Smashbane, it's just a lot closer.
>>
>>28839461
>>28839285
>>28838301
>>28838197


i'm not sure you know how to math.
shield eternal chapter master vs ghazghkull w/ waaaagh always on.
this is in the scenario where we assume ghazghkull is being played by a retard who didn't give him a WAAAAAAAGH banner for WS 7 or a painboy for FNP.

things to make note of.
any fnp that ghazghkull may have had is impossible for smashbane to ignore.

any fnp that smashbane has is ALWAYS IGNORED by ghazghkull as he still causes instant death.

here we go. both targets hit on 4+, wound on 2+

ghazghkull, each round makes 5 swings, 2.5 hits, 0.694 unsaved wounds before IWND

smashbanehas 2 hits, and deals 0.277 unsaved wounds a round

after 2 rounds, (1 game turn) IWND happens

ghazghkull has taken 0.5555 wounds. and smashbane has taken 1.055 wounds.

this happens again next TURN and then ghazghkull has taken 1.111 wounds
smashbane has taken 2.109 wounds

this TURN happens again.
smashfucker has now taken 3.164 wounds
ghazghkull has taken 1.6666.

the next phase puts smashbane at 3.858 wounds missing. not quite dead.

the final turn, 8 phases in, ghazghkull has taken 2,222 wounds. on average. Smashbane has been overkilled, and has taken 4.552 wounds.

tl-dr, learn to math. just because ghazghkull is from an ancient codex, don't discount him as a duel character.

also, if ghazghkull is given his non-retarded bodyguard squad, he doesn't even need to WAAAAGH for many duels. (many meaning abaddon and weaker)

With his bodyguard giving him FNP, it takes 43.2 thunderhammer hits to bring the beast of armageddon down. unless the attacker is WS8, that's a whopping 86.4 attacks.

that's so many swings, that if him and some character who has a thunderhammer fight for literally an entire 6 turn game, his opponent would need to have 8 attacks a round, and be capable of taking 60 WS 7 s 10 ap 2 swings without dying.

looking at lists of people that meet this critera, it is short.
>>
>>28841492
it's okay if people under estimate orks anon; makes it funnier when the orks win
>>
>>28841492
Nobody is speaking ill of ol' Ghazghull here. As you may notice, he is part of a VERY small number of people with the oomph to tackle Smashfucker above.
Also, this is a scenario where we assume EVERYBODY is played by a retard, because Smashbane didn't bring relic banner, apothecary and librarian either. Seriously.
Here is how I worked on that math:
Smashbane swung 4 times, hit two of those, wounded 1.67 of those. 2++ handles all but 0.27.
Ghazghull swung five times, hit 2.5 of those, wounds 2.08 times, reduced to 0.69 wounds by the 3++.
This happens for three phases, with SB taking 1.75 wounds after IWND and Ghazghull taking 0.81 wounds.
From now on the warbosses waagh is no longer active, so he default back to his 5++.
Smashbane swung 4 times, hit two of those, wounded 1.67 of those. 5++ takes off the edge, resulting in 1.11 wounds taken.
Ghazghull continues to cause 0.69 wounds a phase.
Smashbane has now taken 2.28 wounds after IWND, Ghazghull 1.91.
The abvoe continues until the end of the match.
Fifth phase:
SB has taken 2.97 wounds, Ghaz has taken 3.03.
Sixth phase:
SB has taken 3.66 wounds, Ghaz has taken 4.14.
Ghaz has taken over 4 wounds and is now dead, dead, DEAD, while Smashbane clings on with 3.66 wounds taken in total.
Well, that's my take on it, anyway.
>>
>>28842078
As a sidenote, I would also like to add that I play Orks myself, so there is that, too.
I guess.
>>
>>28841923
i know, but the acting dismissive towards orkz in this thread pisses me off.

look at the op's tier 1 characters. notice how many of them aren't monstrous creatures.
that's right 1. Ghazghkull thraka.

orkz need more respect. in old apocalypse rules, (with a green tide on the table giving every-turn waaaagh)
i had ghazghkull and his nobz walk up to a warlord titan and beat the everloving shit out of it.
in one round.
9 pens, 3 explosions, 7 glances.
>>
>>28842254
Okay, in this thread who exactly is dismissive of Orks? Because I don't see it. The one thing that could be vaguely considered as such is the assumption that maybe Smashbane could handle Thraka where Smashfucker failed, and, hey, that turned out to be right, apparently.
Am I missing something here?
>>
Is Smashbane the new name for Smashkill (the original C:SM version of Smashfucker with shield eternal rather than chains of the gorgon and lightning claw)? Because it doesn't sound any better.


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