>elves have the forests>dwarves have the mountains >orcs hae the plainsBasically what this means is that there is nowhere humans can migrate to that hasn't already been settled and there are no resources that aren't already taken.You want lumber? Too bad, we don't take kindly to people cutting trees around here. Don't like it? How would you like a arrow in your throat?You want salt or coal? Sorry friend but those mines belong to the Dwarven Kingdoms, however we would be glad to sell you whatever resources you need. Oh you don't have any money? Well we would be glad to loan you some at a small interest rate of course heh heh.You're starving and you think you can catch some fish? You best fuck off before the mermaids drown you for poaching.
>>28357904>Basically what this means is that there is nowhere humans can migrate to that hasn't already been settled and there are no resources that aren't already taken.Sure.>You want lumber? Too bad, we don't take kindly to people cutting trees around here. Don't like it? How would you like a arrow in your throat?Just remember, for every one of us you kill, there's another ten coming to murder you. We welcome a war of attrition.>You want salt or coal? Sorry friend but those mines belong to the Dwarven Kingdoms, however we would be glad to sell you whatever resources you need. Oh you don't have any money? Well we would be glad to loan you some at a small interest rate of course heh heh.This is why you will outlast the elves. Your reason is an admirable trait. Eventually we will default and you will either take it like the bitches you are or go extinct.>You're starving and you think you can catch some fish? You best fuck off before the mermaids drown you for poaching.Solution: catch the mermaids and eat them first.Anything else, monsters?
>>28357904OP is entirely correct, of course. In a realistic migration scenario, a roving band of humans would be harried incessantly by the various demi-human races - they'd essentially be picked off before getting a chance to settle down and build up some defenses.You can get around this problem the same way that natural human migrations did: sometimes the humans will be carrying a disease or two that the elves or dwarves have no natural resistance to. When the stumpies start dying off in droves, that's when the humans move into the mountains.
>>28357904>Basically what this means is that there is nowhere humans can migrate to that hasn't already been settled and there are no resources that aren't already taken.That assumes humans just show up out of nowhere .
>>28357904"Sir! The elfs wont let us gather wood for building homes for the homeless." "Well start burning down their forests and then when they ask us to house their refugees make them build shelters from the remaining forests."
>>28357959>Dorfs and Elves>No super immune systems>Humans are the ones to shit out the cross species disease
>Have a city in a relatively safe zone.>Start a town way away from it in another.>Have the traders go through the dangerous as fuck elven forest to reach the town, but don't inform them of the danger.>Caravans destroyed, innocent people killed, children orphaned."This unprovoked attack shall not go unpunished, we must protect our people from this mindless aggression! We must set aside the quarrels of our houses, and unite under the banner of God! Join the Holy Crusade, and fight for our right to exist! Let the inhuman blood of these knife-eared monsters turn the earth red!"
>>28358027>super immune systemWhat are they, marsupials?
>>28358035Al swearengen, that you?>>28358035
>>28357959>sometimes the humans will be carrying a disease or two that the elves or dwarves have no natural resistance Elves are immune to diseases. Thats just one of the many problems with your little HFY disease theory.Another is that even the Black Plague didn't kill off everybody in Europe so why the fuck would it kill off all the Dwarves? And even if humans can somehow break into Dwarf mountainhomes, which I doubt, they'll then be killed by all the traps and other defenses.
>>28358021>humans send dozens of people to the forest in an attempt to burn it down>all the humans are killed by arrows before they get within a hundred meters of the forest>one human is finally lucky enough to get into the forest>he tries to set it on fire>the fire goes out because the forest is protected by elven magic
>In the beginning there were Elves and Dwarves, and each had claim over the forests and mountains respectively.>Then Man showed up, from nowhere, with limited resources, began to outnumber the older races, and took their lands (despite being thousands of years younger).How did it happen?
>>28358126>Humans build catapults>burning rolls of hay and shit>catapults successfully fire>fuck forests yo
>>28358171>Humans build catapultsOut of what?
>>28358186Our dead.If our one advantage over the other races is apparently being able to outbreed them, may as well take advantage of it.
>>28358186Out of elven corpses, duh.
>>28358186Bone.>>28358167Our hallowed Necromancer-Lords threw down the haughty elves and grasping dwarves. It is a sorry thing that the undying Kings are not universally revered.
>>28358198>Implying the superior human corpse doesn't make far better siege weaponry.Filthy xenophile go play with your elf bodies at home.
>>28357904This is an awesome setting and I like you.
>>28358035Would crusade with.
>>28358213>Our hallowed Necromancer-Lords threw down the haughty elves and grasping dwarves. It is a sorry thing that the undying Kings are not universally revered.I blame elven and dwarven popular culture. It breaks my cold, undead heart to see young humans fagging about with tacky elven duelling swords or dwarven warhammers claiming they are getting in touch with their true elf/dwarf soul.
>>28358227Sounds like every setting I've encountered in D&D/Pathfinder.
>>28358240Should we murder these ungrateful youths and bring them into your service, master? Or is it just a "phase"?
>>28358167Elves and dwarves don't inhabit every mountain and every forest.
>>28358194Orcs outbreed humans by a lot. Also they're superhumanly tough, like mongols on steroids.So if birth rate is superior to iq shouldn't they be the top dogs?
>>28357904>Implying that elves have all of the forests, dwarves all of the mountains, and orcs all of the plains
>>28358194>humans in this setting use bone as their primary resource since corpses are all they have>Cannibalism common>forced to live in shallow caves and eat their dead, humans become pale and stooped>they degenerate>humans are orcs/goblinsAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>>28358264Balance my friend, balance.
>>28358281Balance just means you suck at everything.
>>28358264We're on a sweeter spot on the fecundity vs. necromancy curve.
>>28357904This is why other subspecies of humans no long exist. Neanderthals, for example. We outbred them and outcompeted, even though they were strong and tough as fuck compared to us. We were just a lot more clever.Also, we may have been one of the most violent and xenophobic breeds of humanity and that's why we're alive today. We killed everyone else not like us.
>>28358295Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.........(Read in Dr. Evil sarcasm voice)
>>28358264Actually elves and dwarfs aren't any smarter then humans. They just have older cultures so know many things humans have yet to discover, but their average int is the same.
>>28357904Humans have the waterways.Rivers, lakes, coasts and islands.
>>28357904>not having your humans and gnomes living on the cliff of a volcano>not have them using the lava to be the greatest forger in the world
>>28358343first thing I thought ofand guess which terrain builds the strongest empires?
>>28358362It's food, water, salt, exploration, transport, natural wall and border all in one neat package.
>>28357904>>elves have the forests>dwarves have the mountains >orcs hae the plainsElves, dwarves and orcs are humans with "racial" hats. They are humans with a specific culture slapped onto them.
>>28358333>elves and dwarfs aren't any smarter then humansOh yeah but I guess humans are smarter than orcs? They're probably smarter than dragons and mindflayers too.This is getting genuinely pathetic. HFYfags are just sad.
>>28358343Yea, rivers have always been the sites of our first civilizations.And controlling the flow of fresh water is a huge advantage.What's that elves? Your forests are dying because we dammed up the rivers and diverted their cause? That is so sad. Hey, how about you trade some of your wood for bottled water?
>>28358318>min-maxing is codeword for anti-human
>>28358343>Humans have the waterways.lol no
humans have the cities made by humans back when no one had that specific spot. and if(when) they feel they need more area they can just start a war because they are always the best at that.
>>28358261This. Don't be an idiot. This is especially true of both are isolationist, because they will want to stay in their forest or their mountain, instead of expanding.As for the orcs/goblins? Their rapid breeding and physical specialization mean they can live pretty much anywhere, but their culture means the groups fight amongst themselves more often than they can trouble the other races. When they get a unifying warlord? That's when the trouble really starts.
>>28358426Well I certainly can't think of any setting where dorfs and elves are actually smarter. And the culture thing can work for orcs too, they aren't necessarily dumber, but their crude culture doesn't allow for much intellectual achievement.
>>28358434Hell, it's dwarves greatest fear, an irregularity in the groundwater pressure or level? Splash, dead city.>>28358456Go back to hell lol-randumb toad.
>>28358261I'm sure thats what neanderthals thought.
>>28358375Hell not to mention the best farmlands.
>>28358469Then you either1. Can't thinkor 2. Don't know any fantasy settings
>humans rule the waters despite there being dozens of aquatic and amphibian fantasy races
>>28358468>When they get a unifying warlord? That's when the trouble really starts. Orcs confirmed for Mongols!
>Be me >Post on /tg/>Forget to remove tripcode from playings risk on /int/ Shamefur dispray
>>28358490Then name me some to enlighten me instead of being a rude little cunt :)
>>28357904Barred from the forests, refused access to the mountains, deterred from the plains, and banned from sailing in the oceans, Humanity turned to the only resource they have: their brains. They sent some people to learn the ways of nature and appeal to the elves to let humans grow their own forests. Then, they sent more people to settle a negotiation with the dwarves to let humans process leftover metal or scrapped projects in exchange with some 'elven' wood, as craftsdwarves are concerned only with the finest crafts. Then, we tricked the waterborn races to let us take in some of their saltwater every year.Then, when the great construction is done, and the seawater is properly catalyzed, and the magic is reverse-engineered; It is then the humans did both what other races have done and what they have never did.We settled down. Among the stars.
>>28359250>Humanity turned to the only resource they have: their bootstrapsTry reading Guns, Germs and Steel sometime. You'll look like less of a dumbass.
>>28359301Heh, I did. But did you assume the other races have already gobbled up the resources as well?
The Human territory is where humans actually prefer to settle in real life: fertile land along water. River valleys, coasts, lakeshores.The Dwarves live in the hills and mountains, and think their territory is obviously the best because it has the best mining. The Elves live in the forests and think their territory is obviously the best because of nature magic harmony bullshit. The Orcs live on the high plains and steppe and think their territory is obviously the best because its huge and you can freely ride across it and graze your herds. And the Humans live along the rivers and coasts in the fertile valleys and think their territory is obviously the best because it's the prime farming and trading territory.The races occasionally invade and take over portions of each others' territory, but never much, and it never lasts long, because the cultures and lifestyles lead them to value different kinds of terrain. Orcs raid, but mostly for slaves and plunder; they pull back afterwards. Everyone's a little wary of humans, though, because they've shown they can and will live on plains, mountains, and forests; they PREFER their coasts and valleys, but they're the only race that tends to seize other people's territory and settle it long-term.
>>28357904Fool. Humans have the isands. We be pirates!
>>28359349The wood for their ships would have to come from elven forests, though, making them hostile against humans by default.
>>28359434If elves control every forest and tree, then humans control every spring and lake, so the elves are all dead from thirst.
>>28359434Not every tree is in a deep, pristine elven forest. And when you need some of those trees, you trade with the elves. Just like you trade with the dwarves when you need metals. Humans hold the best mass-trade routes (rivers and coastal cities,) and produce food most efficiently. Every race has a pretty solid position, which is why Ye Olde Standard Fantasyland has been inhabited in this basic pattern for the last couple thousand years.
>>28359470Maybe humans make reed boats for river travel, like the Egyptians?
Humans, despite their versatility, would be unable to outcompete the specialist species in their home environments. Assuming each terrain already possessed a sapient humanoid subspecies dedicated to it humans would be unable to gain enough territory to be an effective power, ever. Likely result is splitting up into different fractionated groups of hunter gatherers who are absorbed wholesale into the other humanoids. A less likely but possible result is to go full Jewish/Gypsy on them and become a semi-nomadic tradespeople who are accepted nowhere, are the frequent target of progroms for refusal to assimilate or contribute, and are seen as a menace of multicultural, even genetic degeneracy as we mysteriously breed in a few of our traitsand ideals to gain a foothold wherever we go.Unfortunately we wouldn't be able to pull banking tricks on them as draconics, dwarves, and even goblins are in many cases far superior in the matters of finance (likely lacking even the usury laws as existed in Europe's middle ages to take advantage of as well.) Perhaps we 'could' become obsessed with necromancy, perhaps even originating it (most species being too long lived to fear death when it finally comes, while goblinoids either don't fear death, or see little point too obsessing about it.) However, one questions at this point if 'humanity' would even be something one would like to be a part of? A scattering of mongrolized, spiteful ghouls with no place in this world except what they can steal from others by low cunning or vile sorcery
>>28358167The humans have their own gods. There are rumors that they walk among the humans. Giants among men with incredible power. But unlike our gods, they are not constrained by the Panquati Accords. that can mold metal and stone alike like the best stonebenders. They can train to take on the fiercest of ogres and trolls, and they are as numerous as the goblins of the Topek Plateau.
>>28359349 >humans rule the waters despite there being dozens of aquatic and amphibian fantasy races
>>28358035Ah, the old 9/11 strategy.
>>28359787I remember reading about a setting that had racial gods and their power was tied to the population of their races, the most powerful god by far was the god of goblins.
>>28359782That's all nice, but the dwarves, elves, and even pixies don't like leaving their homelands. They will venture 50 leagues in ten generations if that. They are not capable of the nomadic lifestyle. This is where humanity come in. They are traders and delegations that know their way around the continent. They settle where they can, trade where they can't.
>>28359877>Horse blood alone cannot smelt iron gateslost it.
>>28359782Maybe Humans are Helghast.Hated and without a home they're banished to a wasteland that nobody can survive in, they eventually adapt to the harsh conditions and come to view themselves as the ultimate race, then they begin to plan their revenge.
>>28359904I don't get the first, or the last line. Is it parodying the collapse, how jet fuel isn't hot enough or some such?
>ctrl-f>swamps>Phrase not foundC'mon, who doesn't want to be a swamp dwelling cajun/creole/acadian?
>>28357959Contagious diseases are only an issue if the migrating population has an extremely high density. It takes a city of a few million for there to be any persistent diseases. That's why the Europeans gave no fucks when they hit American shores while the Indians died of pox.
>>28360396it's parodying all the retards claiming that shit yes.>>28360420because nobody wants to be inbred. If you're going to be a swamp dweller do it properly and drain the swamp
Humans get all the lands ignored by the others. The hills the dwarves don't want, the lightly forested valley the elves don't visit, the plains too dry or swampy that the orcs circumvent them. The shallow bayous and marshes the mermaids won't risk getting stuck to visit.
>>28360020Orcs, trolls, and other goblinoids usually can take the wastes with both faster breeding and greater endurance. Deserts would elong to reptilians like the yuan-ti, lizardmen, naga, and such would may accept us... as slaves, foodstock and chattel.That's entirely discounting oddball races like the Asherati, Half-Giants, Gnolls or Thri-kreen who are all of superior heat adaption.
>In the beginning all the gods met and drew lots for the parts of the world in which their representative races would dwell. The human gods drew the lot that allowed humans to dwell where they pleased, in any environment. The elven gods drew the green forests, the dwarven deities drew the high mountains, the gnomish gods the rocky, sunlit hills, and the halfling gods picked the lot that gave them the the fields and meadows. Then the assembled gods turned to the orcish gods and laughed loud and long. “All the lots are taken!” they said tauntingly. “Where will your people dwell, One-Eye? There is no place left!” >There was silence upon the world then, as Gruumsh One-Eye lifted his great iron spear and stretched it over the world. The shaft blotted the sun over a great part of the lands as he spoke: “No! You lie! You have rigged the drawing of the lots, hoping to cheat me and my followers. But One-Eye never sleeps; One-Eye sees all. There is a place for orcs to dwell . . . here!” he bellowed, and his spear pierced the mountains, opening mighty rifts and chasms. “And here!” and the spearhead split the hills and made them shake and covered them in dust. “And here!” and the black spear gouged the meadows, and made them bare.>“There!” roared He-Who-Watches triumphantly and his voice carried to the ends of the world. “There is where the orcs shall dwell! There they will survive, and multiply and grow stronger; and a day will come when they cover the world, and they shall slay all of your collected peoples! Orcs shall inherit the world you sought to cheat me of!”
>>28361111where's this from? it's great, and kinda reminds me of Watership Down
>>283611941e unearthed arcana
>>28360420Lizardmen and black dragons live in swamps.
>>28357904Humans live below mountains, and give dwarfs food for goods, with these goods kill elves, then kill the dwarves, becoming master of the mountains and forests.
>>28362848Thats not the way international politics work.
Most people apparently forget the main human trait: adaptability. All the other civilisations named here are very specialized in what they are doing, and not just from a military standpoint.Humans can and will settle almost anywhere, while preferring fertile soils like rivers and coast, but that will not keep them from settling ice deserts or jungles.Another trait about most of the other factions is the short live-span of the humans. While at first a weakness it is actually a strength. The shorter a live and the harsher the sorroundings the more children a species will beget. From the three species in OPs post only the orcs come close to the amount of children humans will father.Furthermore: As Humans are not the best in one particular thing they have to adapt: Fight against a string, but short range enemy like the dwarfs? Get bows, or slings (they are much better anyways)! Fight against masses of better, more experienced enemy troops? Go Guerilla (worked in every major conflict so far)!What most people here also tend forget. Not every damn tree is hugged by a pointy eared elf, not every mountain strip mined by a drunken dwarf. Not every centimetre raided by a stinky Ork.Trees grow outside of forests too and there are enough small forests where elves would not settle. Therefore we have wood for homes and palisades. We also could utilize the marsh, it's usually fertile and gives building material as well as peat for fire. Some wetland areas also have a substantial population of trees (and I don't think an elf would settle there).
>>28363581As for ore. Well not every damn ore is buried deep in the mountains. Just look at Germanys main industrial center, the Ruhrgebiet. It's just The highest elevation is just ~400m (nope, no dwarves here) and there is coal in abundance (seriously holy shit that is much coal), not just 1km under ground, but also near the surface. The same goes (mostly) for iron.Still many things in the middle ages were not made from iron. Just look at the main weapons wielded in that time period: The spear and the bow. Both were made out of wood which had been hardened. If you need the wood for spears to fend of some riding units, just go for slings which can be made out of leather.And I'm not starting with how aggressive human culture can expand and how extremist humans can be.There are enough ways for humans to at least survive, if not gain the dominance. History is the best example. The only thing where humans are really god is walking for long distances and adaptability. Almost every African feline predator is either stronger or faster. Heck, most wild live in Africa is tougher than the average human.In OPs scenario humans definitely have a way to survive.
>>28357904>>orcs hae the plainsNo, orcs have the badlands/steppes. Humans always take the plains.
Humans obviously have the northern tundra and Taiga. And are hardy as a dwarf, crafty as an elf, and batshit insane as an orc.Obviously.
>>28359797Coasts you fuckwit everyone knows the merpeople like cities near coral reefs and the Scylla are doing fuck knows in the trenches. and frog people are pants on head retards who hang out in swamps
>>28363608Yeah, the dwarfs need wood for furnaces to make weaponsThe Elves need magic mumbo jumbo to make sure the forest are healthyThe orcs need something to hunt the stuff they make magic mumbo jumbo out of.And the humans need something to do with all the gold they sifted out of the riversSo humans end up being the traders
>>28363695>humans are RussiansWhy do you hate everything?
>>28363880Does that mean the default noob class is Bydlo?
Humans wouldn't control the water, but they'd start off controlling areas supported by it; think of Sumeria and the fertile crescent or the Egyptians and the Nile. Anywhere where we can grow crops and be reasonably defended at the same time should work. Other than that we've got the same advantages that goblins and other 'vermin' races have: the willingness to put up with any amount of inconvenience to live somewhere if there's a benefit.
>>28357904>grasslands>coasts>islands>tundras>snowy lands>desertnope, no place, sorry
>implying humans dont own the green hills >implying human settlements aren't agricultural powerhouses >implying you haven't been keeping the dwarfs drunk under your thumbs like forge bitches by undercutting dwarwen brew masters with dirt cheap ale mode from your abundant crops. >implying humans dont keep the "oh-so-high" and "mighty">mighty lol, no. long eared faggots as your enchantment whores by keeping them addicted to cheap whine and opium.>implying anyorc but the odd rouge warlord could fucking fuck with the fuckers who feed their great armies. you are the cattle keepers. >implying humans haven't been systematicly exterminating any race that doesn't prove useful to them. why do you think poor weak goblins hide in warrens?suck my girthy green cock, you fucking cannibal pigs.
>>28358300>We were just a lot more clever.Evidence suggests that Neandertals were more intelligent than Sapiens, while Sapiens bred faster and could throw overhand.
>>28358264Aren't Orcs often aggressive and don't they fight amongst each other more than the other races?
>>28365036Yes but they outnumber humanity so much that a single sector of Orks can nearly overcome the best defenses of the Imperium.
Shut up Xenu faggot.
>>28357904>>orcs hae the plainsWhat are you, retarded? Fail fantasy biology?Orcs don't have the plains. There's literally no shade for them. Unless those Orcs are constantly covered in mud and shit they're gonna cook their silly bulldog pig flavored faces off.Orcs get the Swamps. Orcs get the misty Moors. Orcs get the Temperate Woodlands and the cloudy places to root around in.Orcs are swineherds, grow onions, beans, rice, and okra. They're swamp and wetlands people first and foremost.Humans have the plains. We Tan in the sun. Sweat in the Heat. We Tame Horses, grow corn, and can literally jog for fucking ever. Humans are the definitive PLAINS creature, don't even come up to me with that shit.
>>28365609Which is also why we have such massive Hard ons for Centaur backside.Hundreds of Thousands of years of two competing species hasn't created friction.It's created a lust for hind quarters.
>>28365426Whats mormonism have to do with anything?
>>28358035And this is how the Imperium started.
>Meanwhile in the deserts, hills, jungles, swamps and tundras humans thriveSeriously most fantasy worlds these days depict humans originating from a frozen north where they are the dominant species.
>>28358274Huh, that's actually pretty neat.Good going there anon, yer cool.
>>28365687Or maybe you're just a horsefucker.
>>28365609Remember kids our great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great granpappys were black people. We be jungle monkeys yo.
>>28358417So are all races and you can never make an original and creative race that is both enjoyable, realistic and playable.Just putting that out there.
>>28357904That's like saying "blacks have the savannah and arabs have the desert and japanese have the islands and whatever south americans are called have jungles... where could white people live?"Dude humans live wherever the fuck they want, because the only thing required to populate a region is fucking population, and in every work of fiction ever the only advantage humans have is higher population.
>>28365918The snowy mountains, in the cold, frozen north, idiot.
>>28365892Nah not jungle monkeys, we're all about the plains, we're the strongest long distance running animal on the planet.
>>28366098>>28365892We're plains/savahna monkeys
>>28358086>>28358426>if humans are not completely beneath every other fantasy race, it's HFY and you should feel bad
>not playing in campaigns where humans are the rapidly-breeding locusts of the world, governed by immortal necromancer lords
>>28366118What's that one doing at the crotch?
>>28357904Humans live in the cities they get by carving homes out of other races homes.
>>28365892lolnope. Humans evolved on wide open grasslands. The grasslands are our element.
>>28366235Probably cutting off its balls. Testicle meat is seen as a delicacy in many cultures.
>>28366189Liches are generally like dragons, selfish and lazy.I don't think most liches give a fuck about whatever race they came from.
>>28365687I wanna believe there's some sexual affinity between the two species somewhere down the line in our subconscious Or unconscious, I am not well versed in the workings of the mind
>>28357904The humans take the seas and the places inbetween every other area, building a vast network of trade and sea routes, spreading like a spiderweb throughout the land.I kinda want to run a setting like this now.
>>28366313I've always placed Centaurs and Humans as two mutually beneficial symbiotic/complimentary species to one another.There are things Centaurs can do that Humans cannot.There are things Humans can do that Centaurs cannot.They have amazing chemistry on the battle field.And they both love Corn, Baked goods, wide open pastures, and eskimo kisses. And I'm pretty sure both SEVERELY fetishize one another immensely when neither is looking. Like, happily married female Centaurs to Human males is not only common but equal parts LEWD and ADORABLE
>>28365687>Centaur males are incompatible with human females due to girth>The Vice versa is also true due to girthUnless your working with frontal genitals on your Centaurs I don't see it working
>>28366309>Liches are generally like dragons, selfish and lazy.>are generally>generallyWhat if, just what if, you could make up whatever background you wanted for your game? Truly a shocking thought, but it can be done.
>>28365892watchu talking about?Lots of monkeys are white as fuck
>>28366414You've never been to /mlp/ before have you? Trust me, it's possible.
these anti human faggots are annoying as fuck>what humans can do something! fuck no fuck off HFY fag Are you projecting how much you hate yourself on your species?
>>28366397Pretty much. Like Cape buffalo and oxpeckers. Plainsbros 4 lyfe.
>>28366122No, we should feel good.
>>28366397I play Centaurs like the things they're based off of.Foreign Nomadic tribes who want nothing more than to pillage your cities and rape your woman if you can't stop them with more centaurs you payed off or got buddy buddy before they thought about pillaging your cities and raping your woman.Of course some centaurs got cozy with their humans employers way of living and settled down, eventually coming to disdain everything about their past after being exposed to the general human opinion of them. Thus you get a bunch of flashy, stuck up yet admitably very well bred noble centaurs
>>28364871Well, there is also evidence pointing towards neanderthal-human interbreeding. Which makes sense.
>>28366467Madatory fisting does not a satisfying sexual relationship make and for most people horse dick is downright fatal, even with proper precautions
>>28366435It takes a certain type of person to preform a evil ritual to turn themselves into a undead abomination.
>>28366489i like humans, i do. but i could never see humanity as anything but neutral evil. we do have powers tho, jack-of-all-trades baseline powers.also fucking and interbreeding. thats a power.
>>28366489>anti humanGood job being a parody.
>>28357904>Basically what this means is that there is nowhere humans can migrate to that hasn't already been settled and there are no resources that aren't already taken.>there is nowhere humans can migrate tosure there is, remember that really hot, arid, savanna we came from, the one with all the bloodthirsty and/or man-eating beasts (because apparently those traits are not mutually inclusive). Yeah, THAT PLACE.>world seems to have it out for humansyep, that's about par for the course...
>>28366587What if Centaurs, horse bodies or not, stood about as high as us on average or about one and a half times higher?
>>28360534SWho said anything abut inbred?
>>28366587You've got some things to learn about love and sex.
>>28366875I've always wanted this, but the only time I've ever seen it was the Shining Force games.
>>28358194This is actually the coolest thing in this thread. Humanity where we rely on our own dead rather than burying it like retards.
>>28368141>burying it like retardsBurial provides a chance for loved ones to grieve and reduces contagion spread. Admittedly, cremation reduces it further.
>>28368740>implying that we couldn't reduce it in our population by introducing it into others via bone shot
>>28364871Neanderthals were only more intelligent on average. The range of cranial capacity is close to the same to that of homo sapiens, but this says little about specific skills that Neanderthals might or might not have possessed. For example, language and musical talent are largely independent of intelligence.
>>28368857Neanderthal brains were somewhat larger than those of modern humans but were shaped a bit differently since they evolved separately for several hundred thousand years. The size and distribution of archaeological sites shows that Neanderthals spent their lives mostly in small groups of 5-10 individuals (compared to 20-30 individuals for Cro-Magnon man). Elders were rare as few Neanderthals lived past 35.Skeletal evidence shows that injured individuals were often nursed back to health by others. Neanderthals rarely made contact with outsiders or traveled outside their small home territories. Although many Neanderthal sites have rare pieces of high-quality stone from more than 100 kilometers away, there is not enough to indicate trade or even regular contact with other communities.It has been suggested by one pair of researchers that these stones may instead be "gifts" brought by adolescents wishing to join a new community. In their view, this lack of trade could indicate that Neanderthals may have lacked some cognitive abilities for dealing with strangers, such as "cheater detection" and the ability to judge the value of one commodity in terms of another. Neanderthals had a smaller cognitive part of the brain and this would have limited them, including their ability to form larger groups. The quality of tools found at archaeological sites is further said to suggest that Neanderthals were good at "expert" cognition, a form of observational learning and practice acquired through apprenticeship that relies heavily on long-term procedural memory.Neanderthal toolmaking supposedly changed little over hundreds of thousands of years. The lack of innovation was said to imply they may have had a reduced capacity for thinking by analogy and less working memory. The researchers further speculated that Neanderthal behavior would probably seem neophobic, dogmatic and xenophobic to modern humans.
>>28357904>>orcs have the plainsNo they don't.Why hasn't anyone challenged this shit yet?Orcs are fighting the dwarves for the mountains, they don't have the fucking plains at all!Pretty much every fantasy setting has the humans in the plains with the orcs coming from the badlands or mountains or whatever other wildlands are available (like mordor and shit).If anything, we need to make a thread about how every "civilized" (how fucking racist to assume that just because they have different customs they aren't civilized) race has a niche (forest for elves, plains for humans, hills for hobbits, mountains for dwarves) and orcs, goblinoids, giants, trolls, etc have to share shit like deserts, swamps, deserts, and other inhospitable places.
>>28369071Elves got the forests, Dwarves got the mountains, Gnomes got the hills, and Humans got the plains.Then Gruumsh came, enraged that all the land had been claimed before him, and made swamps, crags, caves, and deserts, so that the Orcs may live anywhere!ORC STRONG! GRUUMSH STRONG!
>>28366570Mankind, into xenophilia since 50,000 B.C.
Don't elves usually just escape to their Forest Island whenever shit starts getting fucked in the mainland by humans? I doubt they bother putting up much of a fight when they'd rather just go be beautiful somewhere else.
>>28369146I like this. Makes for a pretty neat piece of fluff
>>28366778This is actually a good point. Orcs seem much more likely to prefer the northern steppes anyway, so humans might actually thrive in arid scrub and savannah habitats while elves, halfings, and the like prefer cooler regions. Perhaps spread into some northern environments like the settings equivalent of the Mediterranean, like we did when Neanderthals were still around.
When the world was young we rode where we willed, and hunted what we willed, and lived as one in the saddle. While Elves hid among the trees and practiced weak arts of magic, and Dwarves picked at the earth, greedy for wealth, we were as the terror of their nights for there were none stronger or faster than us. The gnomes gave us tribute. The sea folk feared our raiding ships. No people could stand before us.Until the humans came, with their Gods and their healing magics, to push us out.Yes, we had raided and pillaged, but always with purpose, never more than we could take. The humans though, they fought their wars for extermination, and they made allies with the Elf and the Dwarf with pretty lies of brotherhood that made them slaves even as we were driven into the dark.Now we live in swamps and bogs crowded full with goblin and troll. Now we struggle from the few mountain fastness we still hold, taken from Dwarves in the great wars, Now we die of dehydration in parched deserts, freeze on far tundras, and starve while Humans live on the plains that were rightly our homelands.But that time will end. The time of the Orc is coming, for we have a new master now, and we will wash away your human taint like a flood.
>>28369071I think WoW has trolls and goblins be tropical rainforest and swamp-dwellers, which is actually a pretty open area considering that elves seem to be more "temperate forest" than anything else.Giants and trolls would probably be taiga and tundra dwellers if nothing else, seeing as these concepts are often heavily inspired by northern European mythologies.
Here's a question, in a setting with numerous sapient races that have evolved to occupy a wide variety of habitats (plains, forests, mountains, oceans), what makes you think that humans would even evolve in the first place? Any proto-sapient that attempted to become a generalist would get shut out by their more specialized kin, and hence there would be strong allopatric divisions between each race. A "jack-of-all-trades" species might not even be viable from an ecological standpoint.
>>28368857Of course, there's no way to know if they were or not. Cranial Capacity isn't that great of a way to measure intelligence, even if you factor in comparisons to total size.
>>28369333Humans aren't really generalists in the real world. As a species, we're built around endurance and tool use. We're designed for Savannahs and Plains. The only reason we've conquered the world is our intelligence... and the fact that endurance is almost universally useful in any environment.
>>28369626Yes, but in a world with elves, dwarves, halflings, orcs, goblins, shambling mounds, and whatever else you want to throw in, humans are definitely the "generalist" race. We may be specialized compared to living animals, but in fantasy outside of a HFY thread humans are usually considered average.
>>28369691>Not running humans with absurd resistance to disease and general ability to shake shit off>Not having a niche for humans just the same as the niche for any other race
>>28369691Going by common lore, Dwarves, Orcs, and Goblins are all cave dwellers. They rely on dark places and don't do especially well above ground. Elves are arboreal, dwelling in temperate forests (as long as we don't count the fucking hordes of sub species). Gnomes are burrowers. Halflings would probably be arboreal too, given their slight physique and agility.The only other stereotypical fantasy races that might compete for the Savannahs and Plains are Centaur and Lizardfolk. The former would not necessarily be in direct competition with us as we have different strengths and weaknesses. The latter are just as likely to enjoy living in desert or tropical forests.
>>28359301>Try reading Guns, Germs and Steel sometime.Do people actually think that book isn't a load of shit?
>>28369913>>Not running humans with absurd resistance to disease and general ability to shake shit offElves already have that.
>>28370035Go ahead, what's a load of shit about it.
>>28369935There's not enough nutrients in caves to sustain huge populations of sapient species. Most species only use caves to rest in, and anything that does live in a cave permanently tends to be really, really small
>>28369913Based on what? What happened to the native American populations when Europeans came over? That was mostly because the Americas had all of two large, domestic species that could transmit diseases to humans, while the Old World had like two dozen. In the case of a species which does have a large number of domesticated species, the result would be less of a one-sided microbial war and more mutual destruction.
>>28370117Most of the bigfoot stuff tends to come from the Pacific Northwest, where there's lots of temperate rainforests.
>>28370181And where are a lot of caves? The Pacific Northwest.
Humanity learns necromancy.Proceeds to win every war through sheer attrition.
>>28366632I'd do it, and I'd the death curses upon our enemies. Orcs? Zombies should be good enough, maybe mummies. Each one of the enemies that die add ranks to my army.Elves? Vampires seem like a good counter. In this setting, they aren't monsters that plague humanity's nightmares, but humans who sacrificed themselves, that they may be remade into weapons. They serve humanity by giving up their own claim to the title, and feasting upon the enemy.I think Vampire stats are closer to elves than humans if I remember right, maybe they even become archers that rival the filthy knife ears.Later down the line, there are higher level undead like gouls, ghasts, and ghosts. Giants, merfolk, and many other races have contributed to the horde my necromanic subordinates and myself command. Skelingtons and zombies now serve as the major unskilled labor force of mankind.As the undead push the other races back, we have unrestricted access to multiple lands, the sea, and air. Our dead build grand cities. Most living humans live in relative ease and safety, and only work skilled professions, if at all. Its fine if you aren't very productive in life. You will be in death.Necromancy is no longer the realm of the greedy and selfish, but the selfless and civil minded.After all, once you think about it, who REALLY wants to live forever? Better hope you live life without very many friends.
>>28370237>article about an entirely different book calling the author a racist
>>28370066How about the part where it's wrong about absolutely everything?European empires were not based on technological superiority (they weren't actually the most advanced) and they weren't based on fucking viruses.The guy oversold the importance of geography and undersold the importance of HISTORY such as shit like INTERNAL INEQUALITY IN COUNTRIES.Anyone who thinks Guns Germs and Steel is worth a tinker's shit is a moron.
>>28370194Bigfoot is the king of the woods not the caves.He uses caves as a means to an end.He roams the forest looking for indian bitches to fuck. Braves the wilderness to be the greatest hide and seek champion of the world. Forges through the untouched lands of the pacific northwest. Why you ask? Because he fucking wants too.Don't think the wood ape is dumb. The wood ape will fuck you up.Bigfoot to me as a native oregonian is the best god dman mythological beast we got.
>>28370098Like most problems with fantasy worlds not making sense, this one can be solved with magic.The surface ecosystem is based on the sun, which nourishes plants, which nourish animals. The fantasy subterranean ecosystem is based on leylines, which nourish strange glowing fungi, which nourish horrible creeping gribblies.Really, it's only sensible that some basic lifeform would evolve to take advantage of ambient mana fields. That's why fantasy-world caves are much, much more ecologically rich than real-world caves; the eldrich ecosystem.
>>28370194I...what?There are lots of caves everywhere, the point is that >>28369935 suggests dwarves, orcs, and the like are full-time cave dwellers, rather than something like a bear that just sleeps in one and goes out into the forest to eat. Lots of animals use caves. Very few live in them.
Humans have the Steppes!
>>28370237The first article also kind of points out that the reviewer seems to have a massive axe to grind with Diamond in the first place
>>28370237>b-b-b-but it's racist!That doesn't change anything about facts. That article you linked has no facts whatsoever that refute any of Guns, Germs, and Steels' claims. It merely INTERPRETS it as a racist narrative and then says that it's bad because it's racist.It's the bickering of an insecure, fart-sniffing, post-modernist English professor.
>>28370315This actually makes quite a lot of sense. It kind of reminds me of a suggestion I saw once that the reason most settings have dungeons fricking everywhere, even in environments that should have no such things, is that the dungeons and caves are actually built over abandoned dragon burrows.
>>28357904>Elves live in every forest and dwarves in every mountain.really?
>>28370458The reason I give for craploads of dungeons and underground complexes in D&D is defense. In a fantasy world, you're not just worried about being invaded by men with battering rams. You're just as concerned about scrying, teleportation, incorporeal creatures, etc. Thirty feet of earth will stop more of that crap than castle walls can. Castles, assassins can teleport into your bedroom, wraiths can slip right through the walls.If you're expecting to fight anyone with magical capacity, you need to dig.
>>28370412>That article you linked has no facts whatsoeverWhat a coincidence, neither does GG&S.
>>28370617Except that it does. In fact, all the linked article does is reiterate the basic argument, then say it's racist, and leave it at that.
>>28369333Yeeesss. Thank you for saying this.>>28369626I think that if humans are present they should be made into a fantasy race called striders or something, which are basically Masai africans.I mean, really, humans in fantasy settings are characterised as africans- warlike, numerous, short lived, riddled with disease and coming to rape our daughters in the night.
>>28358086>Elves are immune to diseases.No they're not. What are you talking about? Nothing's immune to diseases, particularly long-lived things with their accompanying low genetic crossover rate.Magic-powered immunity creates a perfect niche for a magic-immunity-eating disease, something like Elf AIDS.>Another is that even the Black Plague didn't kill off everybody in Europe so why the fuck would it kill off all the Dwarves?But smallpox, plague, and similar diseases did kill upwards of 90% of the Native Americans, including the ones who held off the Vikings.
>>28370702No, it does not.I didn't link that article but GG&S has no facts whatsoever.Try researching history instead of eating up whatever Jared Diamond shits in your mouth.
>>28365896>you can never make an original and creative race that is both enjoyable, realistic and playableYes you can.
>>28370722>I think that if humans are present they should be made into a fantasy race called striders or something, which are basically Masai africans.This
>>28370821Are you going to show us any proof of this?I have to assume the pic is unrelated
>>28369333And adaptable race is resistant to change of nature. It's possible that in the distant past a great calamity happened that made most environs close to uninhabitable, and change was constant over hundred, or thousands of years. In such a scenarion, humanity would win. Humans are the winners when ice ages and droughts ravage the lands.Another explanation is that humans simply evolved seperately from the other races entirely and the first men came from a distant continent or a long lost archipelago. Then the mighty human empire would land on the continents claimed by the elves and dwarves and inhabit the niches that were less settled, or use their military prowess, their guts, and their numbers to make room where the pesky lesser races occupy the soil.
>>28359877They werent' saying the israelis did 9/11 just that the government deliberately let it happen despite knowing about it because it would allow them to pass loads of fucked up laws they otherwise wouldn't, which actually makes a hell of a lot more sense. Does anybody else think it's maybe a horrible idea to entrust the prevention of terrorist attacks to the people who benefit most from them (ie politicians)? The fact is there's no way to tell the difference between accidental incompetence and deliberate incompetence so we'll never really know if this is true or not. But there was a hell of a lot of incompetence surrounding 9/11, lots of opportunities to stop it that the government just "screwed up".
>>28371026Alot of people in the government really should've lost their jobs after 9/11 for not preventing it, lots of superiors who didn't listen to warnings about it from their subordinates. But>government>accountabilitypick one
>>28370767What, then, do you categorize as a fact if GG&S contained none whatsoever?
>>28371075Generally ones based on objectivity.
>>28365687i second this notion
>>28366632>evil>objectiveNot every setting is D&D mate, how is becoming a lich any different to some kind of crazy genetic super science that lets you live forever? Would you consider people who got that procedure to be, by definition, bad people? You could totally become a lich for noble reasons, like if you were the best king ever and the high necromancer decided you're so good you'd be blessed with being made an (un)living god so you can rule forever. Why would that person by definition be bad? The biggest problem with monarchy is how unpredictable the quality of rulers are due to the whole heredity thing, if you could just have one really good king rule forever it'd solve that. Imagine if Marcus Aurelius had lived forever and continued ruling over Rome rather then handing the throne to his idiot son Commodus when he died? He was a well sick emperor, there'd be nothing wrong with that.
>>28370066The fact the guy who wrote it isn't even a fucking historian, it's a prime example of someone who's an expert in one area making an absolute fool of themselves by thinking that somehow gives them licence to pontificate about an entirely unrelated area. It's pop science garbage for idiotic liberals (not that all liberals are idiots, it's just I'm talking about the stupid ones specifically, lots of liberals saw the book for the load of crap it was) who want a nice simple answer to the question of why there is so much inequality in the world (geography) when the reality is much more complicated. But don't feel bad, everyone falls for this kind of trash at least once in their life, it has all the apparent legitimacy of actual science without any of the hard work or uncertainty. Just recognize it for the crap it is and move on.
>>28370262>ghouls are higher level undead then vampiresdafuq?
>>28370767>Try researching history instead of eating up whatever Jared Diamond shits in your mouth.But that would be hard work anon! I just want one book I have to read in order to understand EVERYTHING about human history, can you not understand? Is that really such an extraordinary request?
>>28372815That looks really comfortable
>>2837281510/10 would dry hump.
>>28372815>That guy with the martini glass. Lost it.
>>28373331That's a champagne coupe you fucking plebeian.
>>28357932humans are just americanswe'll just migrate to freedom
>>28359797>Implying the humans didn't just fuck them all to oblivion>Implying that isn't the actual story of the Little Mermaid
>>28369146>>28369177>>28361111>>28361261It was actually mentioned before.
>>28359877>horse blood alone cannot smelt iron gatesHoly shit my sides.
>>28370390Imagine a scenario where humans are the unstoppable invading cossack-mongols-huns invaders fucking everything for the other races adapting on the go, rapin an lootin merrily wherever, whenever. Also, players would be elves, dwarves, etc
>>28370540Until you dig too deep.
>>28371438Agreed, I don't understand why people who talk about Liches forget the case of Baelorns, good elf liches from Myth Drannor that were turned by power of their goddess to make them as protectors of the place? It's like they think that only bad people could want to live forever and look over their subjects...
>>28357904Or... We could take that loan from the Dwarves and turn it into a trade venture, and profit by trading between the various races who are too busy being in their favored environments.Also, humans have husbandry so we can travel fast and carry lots of stuff. Perfect for being merchants. After we pay off our loan we can start funding more commercial ventures while adopting techinques from those around us.Sure, our smithing will be a couple generations behind advanced dwarves, our bows will be 2nd grade to elves. But us humans don't do the innovating by pushing stuff to the limit, we innovate by mixing and matching.
>>28359470Except for rivers that go through forests.>>28359782It's possible to be nomadic and have a defined culture.>>28359890Hells yea, we trading.>>28360420Lizardmen got that.>>28363695The Rus empire lives!>>28368141Humans have no gods, and no divine forebears. Because of this, our bodies are more receptive to all kinds of magic, rather than the magic of the gods that made us.Also why we have so many Sorcerers.Surve, elves have centuries of practice, but our bodies are capable of channeling all kinds of energy without the usual side effects. Including necromancy!>>28370390Sounds about right.
>>28371698That isn't what I said at all, I meant in relation to the zombies and skeletons we'd send at the orcs. My memory of the exact rights you need to go through to qualify for each feat needed to create a type of undead is foggy at best, and fielding a large number of vampires is retarded because of the fact that they might give the enemy access to vampires.I think I could make them before ghasts and ghosts, as well. I forget gouls.
>>28370821I'm tempted to say "Humans but made of metal."Am I missing something here, anon, or did you not think that through?
Humans have no place to live?? Don't care. Not my problem. You humans just stay out of the steppes. Steppes belongs to ogres.
>>28384476Don't mind this stonehead, humans. Come to the steppes.We love company. We'll even invite you to dinner.
>>28386808Shut up ogres, steppes belong to Mongols and Mongolcentaurs.There's only one place humans can go....
>>28389934http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmEpOluE3TcThis is your fault, lesser races. now you will pay.
>>28393067http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVf-SXw1zFI>haHAHAHAH we'll tell the stupid humans they can have the moon>I bet they'll even try to get to it!>probably with fire, fucking obsessive, short lived little freaksYou were right, faggots.
>>28378001>Except for rivers that go through forests.What stops humans from changing the route of the rivers? From building dams? If we want to deny elves the water, than we WILL do it!
>>28389934Moon?? No. Moon belongs to Nazis.
Can't we just gently ask the elves, the dwarves and the orcs for a place and resources, maybe with the help of money?Like, there is no need to chop down the whole forest to build a chair.
That leaves tundras, deserts, jungles, the water, savannahs and all sorts of other places, though.
>>28399112>tundrasFrost giants and particularly shaggy minotaurs.>desertsGnolls and lizardfolk.>junglesPoisonous lizardfolk and grippli.>the waterMerfolk, sahuagin, aboleths....>savannahsGnolls again.
>>28368141Necromancers are the true heroes of mankind.
If the world is full, then we'll settle in the places it has discarded. We will settle in the ruins of "cursed" elven cities, rich with untended forest. We will sit for rest in silent mountain halls, sweep up the bones, smelt the failed experiments, and dig into earth that was deemed unfit for dwarven picks.We will raise the banners of keeps long forgotten, built by dragons and giants and mad wizards, and we will make it whole again before improving it twice over.If you will abandon us, then we will join our kin. And we will succeed where you have failed.
>>28357904> humans not allowed to have anything. Welp, I guess if humans can't have the land for themselves, then they'll just have to take the world for everyone else.> humans are now a nomadic hoard that exists through trade.> they are now proffesionals at animal hearding, trading and skootilypooping.
>Not having a Orc-Human-Centaur plains-raiding alliance
>>28399872>>28403219>>28403866Every 500 years the Nomadic Human population swells to such great numbers that their species which had always been known for their reclusive habits: proceed to rampage across the known earth. Dwarven Anthropologists have noted that this process is directly triggered as soon as Humans run out of acceptable pasture land for their cattle. Miniature human rampages have just as well been triggered after massive grassland fires as fleeing humans turn to looting and pillaging of neighboring populations. On a globalized scale however these Human rampages are further escalated and further supplemented by the addition of Giants and Centaurs whom just as well share the same nomadic lifestyle and centaurs having a symbiotic relationship whenever living in close proximity on grassland or Savannah. This process usually triggers a full on globalized horde that can last for decades.Humans by themselves have immense long-distance running stamina compared to other species which allows them to keep up with Centaurs and Giants on foot and unlike Orcs: Humans have IV receptive skin that Tans before it Burns. (Orcs are very light receptive. They just fucking cook)Humans riding atop Giants as living seige weapons while providing Bow and Arrow coverage and long spears to prevent other species from scaling their allies. Humans co-operating and going into battle with devastating results: Human archers riding on the backs of Centaurs, Human spears and polearms protecting Centaurs who are vulnerable to trip up maneuvers and their flanks being attacked.
>Humans and Centaurs are bros till the endAs it should be.
humans are the guys that are in everyone else's civilization.Snakefolk slithering along in the desert? Still a couple humans around, doing odd jobs.Mermaids underwater? Still a couple shore errand boysOrcs raping around? You -know- they got a lot of humans in those cagesElves? Yeah there's some human hippy motherfuckers up in those trees. They get the little bows.
>>28404563>implying the humans aren't traveling mercenary bandsCentruies old archer who cna shoot an arrow tih an arrow or not, 400 humans come marching at you with 3/4 plate, packed shoulder to shoulder and dick to ass, pikes in hand and swords at the wait, you're going to shit yourself and run sooner rather than later.>>28404325humans are the only people ever said to have significant cavalry, of COURSE centaur love them. they're the only ones that get it. Speed is awesome. Especially when it's you, a few hundred (or thousand) buddies, and your lances going really fast towards things.
>>28404325>>28406021Literally just marrying and or becoming best friends with your vehicle.
>>28370821Indeed. Its just that most people are lazy and go 'Its like X but with Y'. When you've got a guy/gal/GM who actually accomplishes this task, you know you're in for some gooooood shit, my friend.
>>28370821>robots, except fantasy
>>28377100What if that's your plan?