This is Kowloon, the walled city. It's a chinese slum where buildings have been haphazardly built right next to each other without space in between. It is actually possible to walk from one end of the city to the other without ever touching the ground. This is a campaign-sized dungeon and the best urban adventure you've ever heard of. My group favors pathfinder and d&d, either way we don't do modern so it will be a swords-and-sorcery type game.How do I go about doing this? So far I'm thinking just ban evocation and conjuration and be done with it, what other houserules would I need to keep enthusiastic pcs from destroying this city?
Bumpin with Kowloon shit
Wasn't it torn down?
>>28265044Yes. I'm thinking a cult that revolves around a chain devil that eats children. They masquarade as a gang, which is how they attract the PCs attention
>>28265033I wish I could post the right sized picture, it's really cool
>>28265015It does seem like a fireball spell might be a bad idea for anyone in the whole city
>>28265191Yeah I haven't found anything about how they handle emergency services, but they are famous for their unliscensed doctors and dentists
You make it important? I was pretty interested in creating a place like this for a little CP2020 game. Like i'd imagine word travels fast throughout the city; if some one person or group tried to destroy it word would get through to those in charge (the Triads in the case of the walled city). And in order to keep their little lawless sweatshop running smoothly they'd hunt those responsible down.
>tfw one step closer to mega cities
>>28265358Important like new york is important? Pic is what dwarfs look like in the city
>>28265015Cranes with wrecking balls.That slum doesn't exist anymore, they smashed it and built a public park on top.It's said that some nights you can still hear the libertarians wail.
>>28265272The PRC did do mail and water, so they might have done that too.
>>28265388Important like "Oh shit If I just randomly start setting this place on fire some hobos is going to notice and report me to the triads for a pack of cigarettes" Important. But to be honest there was so much water leaking down from the other floors that starting a fire in the first place would've been hard to do.What spurred such a high populace to gather in one place? What do they use to support it? What cultures are prevalent? Tell me more about your walled city.
>>28265272that city is long time goneit was mafia ridden city where police only went in hundreds upon hundreds and only when they felt like it, pure anarchy aside from water and mail servicecrime was widespread
Wasn't Kowloon where Bruce Lee lived as a child?
>>28265410The citizens of the city were pretty fucked.>>28265473But still, in life threatening situations they'll cast a fireball and five buldings will collapse.My idea as to why they built a city there is BECAUSE evocation and conjuration is impossible. As d&d warfare is so centered on those two schools, the walled city would be a kind of forced nuetral ground.
>>28265078That's a sick dungeon have a slum
>>28265492Not total anarchy though, the only things really slipping under the radar were open drug use and prostitution.Then again this is Hong Kong were talking about, and with a population of 50k living so close normal "assaults" and "theft" I'm sure were to be expected.The Triads had a pretty tight grip on all the businesses, factories, and housing within its perimeter. They kept a little system going where you could get property, and as long as you paid for protection you were under their protection.Many of the former residents, while poor, actually had fond memories of the place. I still wouldn't want to live there.
Set it in Pandemonium, in one stalactite hanging from the ceiling in an almost bottomless cave. The entire city is built inside it, and used to serve as a prison for some bastards. Over time, criminals from all across the Multiverse began gathering there, digging deeper and deeper until they made a city cramped inside it. The players have to go there, risk the screaming winds of Pandemonium, face criminals, cultists and worse (both mortal and immortal), and navigate both the city and its numerous intrigues. The place is used by everyone - from archons to demons - simply because if you need something, you can get it there.Now, what's going on:> Constant noise makes perception checks a nightmare.> Constant noise also screws with verbal spell components.> All magic and usage of magical and alchemical items is strongly regulated in the city - collateral damage is punishable by death.> Constant risk of pickpockets.> Insane people are everywhere - the noise, after a while, begins affecting everyone in the city.> Navigating the city and its passageways requires navigation checks.> The place is full of makeshift bridges and ladders that require checks or risk the players falling down.
oh fuck I remember this place, fuck I used to live here as a kid, now look at me
>>28265492Actually Kowloon was the Triad's base, they didn't permit as much crime as you would expect from somewhere so 'lawless'. You don't shit in your own bed.
>>28265629eg fucking xactly place was a shithole but you didn't see anyone apart from the triads selling drugs and extortion
>>28265612Are you serious?. If so, tell us more.
>>28265590Where are you getting your information anon? I'm always horny for more>>28265602Nghhhhh, that sounds awesome>>28265612If that's true you should hang around my thread.
I hope /tg/ maps every single room.
>>28265382Kowloon. This is Mao-Mao. There are two capitalist running dogs in the city. I want them dead.
>>28265015Combine this >>28265602 with pic related- a part of the city has been turned into a teseract.
>>28265656Documentaries, I think this is the only one, but its hella interesting.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lby9P3ms11wAnd reading a lot of articles. My walled city in CP:2020 had the exact same set-up, but was kind of a "neutral zone" between China and Russia.
>>28265712Oh fuck man.
>>28265712I WOULD PLAY THISSOFUCKINGHARD
Let's clarify something. It was the Walled City within the area of Hong Kong known as Kowloon. Kowloon was not the city itself.It is a dense, urban area, naturally. Much like any major city. It wasn't all a slum. That was just the Walled City.Pic related. Kowloon.
>>28265725Cool shit man I'm watching it now. I knew I couldn't be the first one to think of this.
>>28265712So I heard /tg/ gets shit done.
>>28265712Or the entire City is a tesseract with each piece being a different district of the city.
>>28265834Shit youre right. Well I'm bad at this, you can your post in if you want.
>>28265712Kowloon, escape is madness!
>>28265712How are you going to get to work? or anywhere?
OP here. I gotta crash, but I really like where this thread went and hope it's up tommorrow.
>>28265938The Wind tells you.It's rumored that the stalactite the town is built in is actually the windpipe of an old dead god of Law, who glanced into the Far Realm and attempted to put down laws for it. His mind broke, and his screaming form was broken down by the other gods afraid of his madness.Sometimes, if you stay in the city long enough for its madness to afflict you, you begin feeling how and where to turn, as if something's telling you the law of this chaotic place.
>>28265938Like THAT'S the biggest problem. Do you know how many rooms there would be in hypercube that's that big on the OUTSIDE? I would you could easilly fit our entire planet's population in it.
>>28265991you say that like it's not an awesome thing
>>28265656well I was pretty young when it got knocked down round 7 ish I think, but I remember a lot of like well it was a complete shithole even in the nicer places which were considered nice because only one or two people died a week, but I was lucky and lived upside (upper levels) and that was fairly good because I actually got sunlight, unlike other kids who barely saw any (because back then we didn't have a lot of public transport, and their schools and shit were in the place in the first place.)
>>28265938You have to figure out which rooms are prime numbers.
>>28266013Are you serious? That's kinda awesome where are you now?
>>28265869Never enough Planescape campaigns.Never enough.
>>28265650I was fairly young so I don't remember much but I'm fairly bright (which is how I got out of the shithole life (well first I lived there, then my family moved to mong kok which was worse (because the triads were't dominant and the cops were assholes, but I got a scholarship to a good school and then went to college in england)
>>28266027still on hong kong but I'm working for a firm and shit and live in yuen long and have a house (not an apartment).
>>28266039that's my next characters backstory
>>28266077in what setting or are you going to adapt it because if its like d20 modern I can help you a bit
>>28266039Is your name Howard?
>>28266086no, my english name is andrew
>>28266097Can I call you Howard?
>>28266119why? not that I mind but just curious
I lived in Kowloon for a little while about 4 years ago, when you go to the park and see the size of the area the city was in and the models and info about it, it's impressive in a terrifying sort of way.
>>28266135that it is that it is, never have I seen such a shit hole surrounded by a pretty much well first or second world country/province
>>28266085Yes, actually, an intelligent hero.
>>28266158You've never been to some of the council estates in London I take it?
>>28266158It gets worse when you look around places like Central or even other parts of Kowloon and see the massive wealth gap, it's astonishing.
>>28265015>>28265602>>28265682>>28265712>>28265869>>28265834>>28265971>>28265991This is why I /tg/
>>28266183I work in central and yeah I know, like the IFC building (which is like a big mall where you can get everything that is imported and expensive) theres people begging for change outside of it while guys in suits that cost more than my girlfriends rent walk by.
>>28266179this is worse, and I know what those estates are like, lived there for 6 months while taking care of relatives (I have relatives in england because they moved there and opened a chinese take away)
>>28265834and each of those districts is a different kind of puzzle, like a rubiks cube
>>28265712Is this a fucking joke its too early for this.
>>28266409now I am saving that for my group
>>28265712I made you a map.Bold numbers from 1-10 are tesseracts, regular numbers from 1-40 are cubes. Tesseracts that sum to 11 are opposite each other in the 5-Cube. That should be enough to figure out the relationships between the rooms.
About three years ago I took part in a V:tM game set in Kowloon circa 1970. I don't think I've enjoyed a single other WoD game as much since.
>>28265586there is this one african guy who is the mailman for the whole favella. he knows everyone by name
>>28265272This is how you solve the magic problems. No actual wizards want to enter, it's always hedge wizards and sorcerers on the run from the church. These wild cards can cast powerful magic, but most people in the city are extremely superstitious and will try to bring down a firebug.
>>cool dungeon idea>>hey herp derp lets the it into a tesserectC'mon. Not everything has to be a tesserect
>>28265834Sigil eat your heart out.
>>28266013>public transportWhat? Are you bullshitting now? You don't need public transport to go to the top of a building.There's a book about it called "City of Darkness - Life in Kowloon Walled City" or rather that's the name I downloaded it under. It's not a pdf but images so I won't share all of it.
>>28269388Kowloon wasn't just criminals. A lot of people worked there manufacturing and cooking for the big city who happily bought their cheap products.
>>28269463Now for some children.
>>28266039>but I got a scholarship to a good school and then went to college in englandBrit here, I resent that we handed Hong Kong to the commies, so I'm glad when I hear about Hong Kongers who got to England.
>>28265015Don't ban those things (unless you mean "make illegal"). Let the players fuck up.
>>28269524A temple inside a building.
>>28265015> Mega structures> Mega blocks> Mega-city oneThis is how it begins, OP.
>>28269614>Implying this isn't a brick for the Hive spire.Who do you think you work for anyways?
>>28269706> implying Hives aren't ripped directly from Dredd, which borrowed from Asimov's Caves of SteelBro do you even sci-fi history?
>>28269714>Implying the Arbites weren't founded by Judge Dredd. Bro do you even Scholar?
>>28269755I know a thing or two about judges, child.
I miss the good old fashioned shipping container cities.
>>28269763>Only greenstuffing the boots and not the guns or shoulder pads. Pleb.
>>28269808You mean these shoulder pads? Which are not ribbed, and look like Scout shoulders? Or do you mean the guns that look just like arbites shotguns but without the shoulder stock?Learn your uniforms, chump.
>>28269850>Look like scout shoulders>Look like arbite shotguns>Are actually scout shoulders and guns. Was actually referring to Judge Dredds outfit.
>>28269900Oh, you mean "why are you not a professional-grade sculptor?"Because, nigga, I have stupid hands.
>>28265991Presumably to get the Kowloon feel it would be a single old warehouse on the outside. Or a police box.
>>28269388The way Kowloonanon mentioned it I figured it was public transport from the walled city to a nearby school that was the problem. There was education inside IIRC, charities and such, but not much.
>>28269388The nautical torrent site we all know and love has it, both as images and as a PDF the uploader claims is a cleaned-up version of the jpeg torrent. You know, for anyone who's interested.
>>28269951You poor creature...
>>28270133It's also why so many of my minis are unpainted. The frustration of spending four hours on a mediocre model can only happen so many times.Now I just spray prime, tri-color, and wash those fuckers down in Badab Black (or whatever they're calling it now).
>>28265015If you don't want them to wreck your setting, I guess you should ban the wizard/druid/cleric/witch/sorcerer/oracle/magus/summoner/alchemist. That would keep the magic level down to something that's not likely to swiftly collapse the city.>>28269575>Don't ban those things (unless you mean "make illegal"). Let the players fuck up.That's how I like to GM but this entire setting goes to waste fast if they start turning into demolition squads. It's better to ban the shit out of their options and then let them go wild than have to railroad and tiptoe through the place.
>>28270784But if they start running roughshod, who knows what they'll encounter. Buildings and blocks that would otherwise remain forgotten and asleep might awaken, and who knows what neighbors your fireball-happy players just pissed off?
>>28271960>But if they start running roughshod, who knows what they'll encounter. Buildings and blocks that would otherwise remain forgotten and asleep might awaken, and who knows what neighbors your fireball-happy players just pissed off?Yes, you get that, but the adventure quickly moves you outside the walled city because nobody in there wants to shelter a fireballer who just made himself a lot of shiny enemies and is also reducing the city to rubble. Even if you make the entire planet the walled city like MtG's Ravnica, they're not going to be exploring the walled city as much as they're demolishing and plowing through it.
>>28272136I think you're missing the part where if they plow roughshod through it, they die. That'll stop them rampaging.
>>28272164>They'd die. That'll stop them rampaging.Yes, and it will stop the campaign too.
Yay my thread is alive! But I missed out on the opportunity to talk someone who actually lived in the city I'm running my game in.
>>28266409>>28266999OP here, I can't decide who is right here
>>28265725That was so worth the 40 minutes. Thank you.
>>28265078I fucking love kytons.
>>28270784It looks like a really shitty apartment complex.
>>28265725>scan comments for part 2>some guy's running a Shadowrun campaign in a re-built version of the Walled Citywhy this surprises me I have no idea.
>>28270063Already have it on my computer.It's a damned stunning read. Fucking dense book, though, and the pdf is too big to post
This is still alive?
>>28282462Fuck yes it is.Now we just need to organize /tg/ and figure out the theme/map/fluff for each version of the kowloontessaractstalactitie city (Kossarite?)
>>28282572Yeah this is pretty confusing
>>28282462Oh yes, for the past 4 hours the posts were just invisible.
>>28282572it fucks with my head, i don't want to think about it.the hell PC's would go through...it would be a cool ass maze though, and watching your PC's try to map it out to navigate would be rewarding.
You could make the city a proto-Sigil of sorts. Maybe the insane god mentioned above wanted to turn his domain into a city overlapping multiple dimensions, and the result is the Kossarite. Navigating the place is a nightmare because the magic partially succeeded - one wrong turn can land you in another part of the tesseract city in another dimension, and only by giving into the madness (because the madness tells you the key needed to move in a straight line) ruling the city can you move from one place to another without any trouble.
>>28282928And you could have different "triggers" for the shifting to adjacent tessaracts, such as "Using fire magic shifts the doors to Tesseract A, while walking [Arbitrary cardinal direction] on Golem Street shifts to Tessaract G"Shit, I kinda want to do this for shits and giggles anyways. Make an entire goddamn setting out of it, with overgrown areas filled with mutated wildlife or entire areas of mausoleums with tons of ghosts and vampire lords vying against liches and necromancers for dominance or something.
>>28282808mapping a tesseract is easier or even a 5d cube
>>28283030Why the fuck not. Each side of the tesseract (so, the stalactite) is inside one multiverse. You can easily shift into another multiverse where, say, all the elemental planes are shifted (so fire is made of water, life is made of negative energy and so on).
>>28283339Beside the walled city, there are still so many *cyberpunk slum* in Hong Kong. The pics attached will be shown in Transformers 4.
>>28283030>>28283131Forty city districts and ten tesseract themes is surely a challenge /tg/ can rise to.>>28283074There is in fact a map of the 5-cube in this very thread.
>>28283388>Forty city districtsFuuuuuck, might as well get started
I just want to point this out:If ANY party can complete these dungeon without going insane, they are either incredibly lucky or about to transcend mortal form.
y'all could just play the worlds larges city all on top of each other
so since people seem slightly interested in my childhood who wants to hear what I know of the dump where I was born
>>28283640Eh, why the hell not? Talk away, anon.
>>28283855well I was born in the kowloon walled city, which was pretty shitty, very little sunlight, a lot of drippy water, prostitution up the ass (no pun intended), drugs out the fucking nose and muggings every 20 minutes.
>>28272651... "roll new characters." It's not that hard. They'll learn, eventually.
Don't die yet, I'm figuring this out.
>>28283388Themed tesseracts would be nearly impossible to implement: tesseracts have a bridge room between each others, each room is present in two tesseracts and thus must fit exactly two themes (and you can't have two rooms in a tesseract both leading to the same tesseract on a switch, the themes must be distinct.)To use a stupid example, you could have a color-themed tesseract, with a room for each color of the rainbow (+ black to get 8 rooms.) Now the orange room has a switch to the fruit-themed tesseract, which is made of the orange room, apple room, banana room etc. The apple room has a switch to the corporation-themed tesseract, which is made of the apple room, walmart room, toyota room... The toyota room leads to the car-themed tesseract, with toyota, mercedes and so on.It seems pretty intuitive so far, but in fact you're pretty much stuck already: your Mercedes room can't be in the corporation tesseract (Toyota is already in it) or the color tesseract (all the rooms are tied to colors) or the fruit tesseract (it's not a fruit.) You must find a car brand tied to a color and another one tied to a fruit and so on for every theme other than corporations (actually you get to choose ONE theme that won't be connected by a room to the current tesseract, but still.) And of course you must find another tesseract for Mercedes. And connect one room from every other tesseract (minus one) to it.Much easier to just assign rooms to tesseracts semi-randomly.
>>28288568On second thought, themes are somewhat easier to implement for city districts.example with just 4 district themes: luxury districts, industrial districts, slum districts, magic districts.luxury and slum, magic and industrial are opposites.luxury and industrial: jewelers' districtmagic and slum: fantasy races' ghetto luxury and magic: mages' ivory towersindustrial and slum: heavy pollution/toxic metallurgyOf course it's still pretty hard to fill 40 rooms and 10 themes like this.
>>28283893>>28283640This man, you're by far the most interesting part of this thread, I hope you'll lurk for a while. I've heard a lot of the people who lived there were sad to see it go, that it was a very close-knit community.
>>28290051I'm more into the tesseract city
>>28290051>>28290086I think this whole thread was interesting up until it died.
>>28265473Diplomatic immunity within the city walls, I believe. It was built up on an old military installation that was exempt from local laws. Absolutely fascinating place.
>>28288797if anyone can do it, you can. Check out Cityscape for ideas on types of districts, ill help today
>>28288568>>28288797>Read whole thread>Still need shit explained to be with fruit and colorsAt least it makes sense now.
>>28288797Remember that each cube has two different faces, one in each tesseract (Very slightly like how the lines in a cube can be considered as part of two different faces).So if one district is in the industrial tesseract and the luxury tesseract, there can be two different versions of it. An industrial version that has six entrances to other districts in the industrial zone, and a luxury version that has six entrances to other districts in the magic zone.So moving between tesseracts is represented as the entire city district shifting into another similar but differently themed version of itself. You're still in the same district, but you're on the opposite face.
>>28288797I don't think the linking "rooms" have to be themed.
>>28290206Wait how does that affect people living there? Do they also have to be existing in multiple dimensions, or only existing in one version of a district at a time?
>>28290206That's right, I was thinking of rooms as fairly homogeneous, but the more complex they are internally the easier it is to transition between them and between tesseracts.
>>28265991Actually, let me work this out.Kowloon had a population density of 1,255,000 inhabitants per square kilometre, and the buildings were no taller than 14 stories high. That gives us a volumetric population density of about 0.012 people per cubic meter. If the city was a 5-d tesseract (a penteract), it would have 40 times as much internal space as the volume of one of its 40 cubical "edges." (Possibly 80, depending on how the interface between different tesseracts works)Assuming this 80-times figure, because that seems to be what the thread's going with (>>28290206), then in order to contain the entire population of the world the city would have to have a volume of 4.74 cubic kilometers of building per cubical "edge"Kowloon Walled City was only about 0.026 square kilometers in area, or 0.0009 cubic kilometers if we include the 14-story height.A penteract version of Kowloon would NOT fit the human population.
>>28290238Well, see, every room is a "linking room".
>>28290279Think of it like in Portal, except the portal edges are invisible. You go through a doorway or an alley and wind up on the "other side" as a gradual transition.
>>28283320>>28283339>>28283361Looks like the China stage from Maken X.OP look up Maken X, you might get some more inspiration from the art.
>>28290327Also note that if we assume the individual 3-dimensional "rooms" are cubical, then in order to have the volume of Kowloon, they'd be about 0.87 times the volume of the Empire State Building, or a cubical city-chunk about 100 meters to a side. (This is tall enough to be a skyscraper) - a cubical city-building 41 stories tall, and taking up a whole city block.
>>28290206>>28290305>>28290345Yeah I think the city is actually incredibly easy to navigate once you get the hang of it
>>28290279They're still regular 3d people like us. Mostly, at least.I imagine that most residents can't move across tesseracts at will. There's probably a specific spot or specific action you need to take to change tesseracts.So say you live in the Magic/Bazaar district. This is the magic section of the Bazaar tesseract and the market section of the magic tesseract, but you're only in one of those at any given time.So let's say you start in the magic part of the tesseract. Maybe if you walk to the busiest part of the market in the right way, you'll walk out on the bazaar side of the tesseract. And this will make finding your way home incredibly difficult.
>>28290445Of course, that's assuming you could ever see it from the "outside" - if an outside even exists. The whole city is looped in upon itself - perhaps one simply gets lost in a perfectly ordinary city on the Material Plane, lost in the alleyways of a bad neighborhood, and end up looking out on a balcony in an inn - and then realizing that to get to that balcony, you went DOWN 25 flights of stars from ground level and you don't remember the city looking like this, anyway...?
>>28290161Don't feel stupid, I wrote those posts to sort my own thoughts as much as anything.By the way, someone might find this useful:Room 1 - 000N2S7 E6W3 U5D4Room 2 - 001N8S1 E4W5 U6D3Room 3 - 010N5S4 E1W8 U2D7Room 4 - 011N3S6 E7W2 U1D8Room 5 - 100N6S3 E2W7 U8D1Room 6 - 101N4S5 E8W1 U7D2Room 7 - 110N1S8 E5W4 U3D6Room 8 - 111N7S2 E3W6 U4D5Directions being North/South/East/West/Up/Down and the number of the destination room. So for example, you start in Room 4 and go east, you end up in Room 7. Go east agan and you end up in Room 5, which is opposite to Room 4. Go east again and you go to Room 2, and east again brings you back to Room 4.The 3-bit binary values are just for keeping track of opposite rooms more easily (110 and 001 are opposites for example.) You can also use the sum of the room numbers: if it's equal to 9, they're opposites.Just assign whatever rooms you wish as rooms 1-8 and you've got your path. Shifting to another tesseract in the 5D hypercube is a simple matter of "loading" new rooms into the model.
obligatory Tesseract map, Rotate+Stack for 5D versions.
>>28290487So expanding on >>28288797, here's a possible list of ten themes.Luxury/Slum - The nicest neighborhoods in the penteract are obviously as far as possible from the least developed tesseract. Industrial/Magical - Another solid pairing. They don't really need to be opposite each other, but if we want to have both it makes sense.Anarchist/Empire - Presumably the governing power of the penteract has full control of one tesseract, and the least control in the one furthest from it.Cathedral/Bazaar - The most secular and most religious tesseracts are opposite each other as well, although people tend to go shopping in both.Summer/Winter? - This one is kind of lame, honestly. But I feel like there's always a fire dungeon/ice dungeon pair.So for every theme, inside that tesserct it will be paired with every other theme except its opposite. So inside the magic tesseract there's a classy magic district and a shady magic district, a shrine to the god of magic and a magic item market, a pyromancer's and cryomancer's college, and the official mage's guild as well as the magic underground.
What happens when "up" in your room and "up" in the next room don't match? Say, you go DOWN in district A to district C, and come out through the ceiling of district C. So far, so good - smooth transition, no gravity fuckery. But say you head north instead, from District A to District B, and then take the stairs down. You'll emerge from the walls of District C! What happens now? What was Down for you is now Sideways. Does the gravity suddenly shift when you cross the border, causing you to fall off the stairs and probably throw up? Does gravity remain the same for you, and you'll just be walking on walls, gravity pulling you sideways while everybody else keeps walking the same way? Do you make a quick stop in some kind of pocket-space to re-orient yourself, to get off of the stairs and then head out through a door on the wall?
>>28290820How aboutCathedral/Redlightand instead of summer/winterBazzar/Residentail?I don't really know whats going on.
When did /sci/ get here?
>>28290639>>28290722>>28290820Ok, if this thread is up in a few hours I will have something really neat for /tg/
>>28290949Who cares, it's great.
So, do we want to fluff this thing? How's this, potential lords of the Tesseract city:> Teruviel, the Law Composer (LE)A fallen Trumpet Archon from Celestia, Teruviel was drawn to this place in his quest of composing the music of the planes. Reaching the city, he became obsessed with the noise and madness, seeking to find some law in it. All the other lords fear the mad angel and lawgiver, but ultimately need his services as the one knowing everything and everyone in the city. His orders are swift, his judgement harsh, but everything he does is needed for the prosperity and what little sanity there is in the city.> Toramax (CG)An old Green Slaad who came to the Tesseract city in his hunt for food and fun, Toramax became trapped in the infinite tunnels stretching at the edge of the city. Utterly lost and unable to leave the boundary, he now offers his services as a guide to everyone entering the insane city. Toramax will often defend those weaker than him (claiming that it's simply to spite Teruviel), even though many suspect that his years in the city have turned him into a freedom fighter.> Vhaana (TN)The madness of the city manifests itself in many ways, but nowhere is it as obvious as in the old pit fiend Vhaana. Formerly a general in the Blood War, Vhaana fled the battlefield instead of facing his punishment, finding solace in the Tesseract city. Now utterly apathetic and paranoid, Vhaana spends his days reading books, navigating the political hellscape, and pursuing art. It's rumored that he's the leader of the merchants guild as well as the thief guild, and that he does everything in his power to maintain the status quo between the factions.
>>28290920I believe the standard is either relative gravity based on the entry point (so going down becomes going up) or fixed gravity so coming down to the side becomes lying on your back. MC Escher in the hizouse!
>>28290820Maybe instead of Summer/Winter, there's an Ancient/Modern, or Eldritch/Human distinction? Maybe the city was built on the ruins of older cities, building OUTWARDS in different dimensions instead of simply building on their ruins. Maybe it was built by advanced, eldritch Outsiders, and the "deeper" you go you get further and further from the cube that actually extends into normal space - with balconies, and sunlight, and roads in and out! - and things get stranger and stranger and clearly more ancient and less human. (You DON'T want to be in the tesseract closest to the Eldritch side. Here There Be Dragons. And ancient riches, so hey, adventure!)
>>28290930I kind of figured the Bazaar/Slum cube would be the redlight district. Each tesseract having its own major church seems less magical realm than each having its own special kind of brothel.I mean, I'm sure they all do, but it doesn't need to be one of the foundations of the setting.That said, I would like something better than fire dungeon/ice dungeon. Maybe Residential/Military?
>>28291015>>28291001That's my suggestion. There's an Old Town and a New Town, and the Old Town may be very Elder indeed.Or at the very least an In/Out distinction, where Out is "closer" to actual normal space, where some buildings and alleys actually extend into normal space, and In is further away in the depths of the extra dimensions, far away from sunlight and normal reality.
>>28291001>>28291071Remember that this theme needs to play nicely with almost all the others. So you'll have a high industrial ancient ruins district, a slum ruins district, etc...Or we could say screw the rules and have one tesseract that just changes completely when you enter it, so except for the outermost face most of the penteract is just one wrong turn away from Silent Hill/R'lyeh/Scarytown.
>>28291100I'd say second option, as the first one seems damn near imposible. There could certainly be some places where you see the dual-influence.
>>28291100Yu don't have to screw the rules, you just don't have to represent each district. Who's to say the Magic/Slum area crossroad can't just be a slum?
>>28290920Only one room in the tesseract leads down to Room C. Look at:>>28290639All the room numbers in a direction "column" are distinct, if you see what I mean.
>>28291172It's a slum with some shitty mages holding cardboard with "will cast for food" scrawled in runes.You need SOME secondary Theme, even it just flavours the slum
>>28291100>Slum Ruins districtI see no problem with this. That fits perfectly thematically, in fact.>High Industrial Ancient RuinsSufficiently Advanced ancient ruins with the remains of Outsider technology, or just retrofitted ancient structuresI still like the Silent Hill/R'lyeh/Scarytown idea - here's my plan.See, the city HAS to have exits and entrances to normal space - food and water have to come in somehow, for one thing. I was thinking that on the "Out" / Modern / Human side, you'd have the maximum number of such "entrances" and "exits" - sewers of other cities that faded into the City's sewer lines, dark alleys in Greyhawk or wherever that faded seamlessly into the alleys of the City, momentary whorls where one could get lost in an open-air bazaar and find themselves in the decidedly NOT open-air bazaars of the City. See, those pictures of Kowloon all had rooftops where the lucky few could see the sun, and balconies where the lucky few could extend into the open air. I'm thinking that our City needs those, too. (They needn't be contiguous, mind you - they're likely scattered across dozens or hundreds of cities across the Planes, perhaps with one building that simply doesn't fit or an extra floor that the stairs just skip). Not all of them are two-way, mind you - some only lead in, some only lead out, and they don't always stay in the same place.Meanwhile, in the Inner City, in the Eldritch/Ancient section, there are ALSO doorways and balconies and secret passages and alleyways that lead "out" into open space - but it's definitely NOT human space and it is NOT a friendly place, and sometimes terrible things get in through the entrances and two-way openings.
>>28291220Or as mentioned before, a ghetto for fantasy races like goblins or khajits or whatever.
>>28291236So basically, except for the outermost face, most of the penteract is TWO wrong turns from R'leyh/Silent Hill/Scarytown, and those poor bastards in the Ancient district are just one wrong turn from stepping into Oh Fuck: Population You. (Or for having whatever lives in Scarytown come back at them.)
>>28291236I dig this
>>28274879"Look at me, I'm a sadomasochist demon! Woo, literally edgy!"Kyton's are edgtastic edgwizards, led by Edgemeister, Master of the Edge. They have no personality beyond "I FLAY BABIES AND TURN ORPHANS INTO PAIN LASERS OF TEARS!"
Just popping in with this. You might find it useful for a hypertesseract.
>>28291236Yeah. Thinking about it, Silent Hill had a ton of great examples of this kind of transition.Get in the elevator, go to a floor that shouldn't be there, and suddenly you're in barbed wire Hell. Or that awesome clocktower transition. This is basically how I'm imagining a lot of the movement between tesseracts to be like.>>28291285Well actually most places are three steps away. One step to get into the Ancient district of your tesseract, one step to get into the Ancient face of that district, and a final step into Silent Hill. If you live in the most normal district it's even further, if you already live in the Ancient district of a tesseract but on the less scary side it's closer. If you live on the scary side of the scary tesseract then oh shit son what are you even doing?
>>28291354He forgot two whole tesseracts.
I've tried to wrap my head around a tesseract but I still just don't really get what it is or how it works, despite all the various screencaps and whatnot.
>>28291441So he did, you're right. Ah well, Nice that I know that now.
>>28291470I get a tesseract, but not the hypertesseract. How exactly DO you go from one tesseract to another?
>>28291441That was almost usefull
>>28266973>This is how you solve the magic problems. No actual wizards want to enter, it's always hedge wizards and sorcerers on the run from the church. These wild cards can cast powerful magic, but most people in the city are extremely superstitious and will try to bring down a firebug.No wizards want to enter, because the strength of the wizard is the ability to prepare for the dangers ahead, and nothing can prepare them for this.
>>28291373As for why the fuck anyone would live in the Ancient tesseract - 1. Stuff to salvage. Ancient artifacts can be valuable, and there's REALLY interesting and REALLY valuable stuff down here. (This is why the Ancient/Magic and Ancient/Industrial districts exist)2. Infrastructure. The Ancient side is in many ways the "heart" of the city, and that stuff needs to be maintained. (This is the other reason for the Ancient/Industrial district)3. Archaeology - The place is interesting! Just, you know, a bit dangerous. A bit. 4. The rent is low - SO LOW, guys. (This is why the Slum/Ancient district exists) And the architecture is nice!5. Guarding - guarding the rest of the city from anything coming in from "below."6. Farming - Eldritch beast bits are VERY useful magical components and medicines. (Think the Kaiju-parts black market from Pacific Rim, although there's almost certainly a better example I'm not thinking of.) This, and the selling of artifacts, is why the Baazar/Ancient district exists.8. The architecture is in some places REALLY nice. Very grand. Spacious, too, as though it was designed for something bigger than a human. Plus, the looters won't touch it! Something about "black magic." (This is why the Luxury/Ancient district exists)
>>28291441On the other hand, his "double room" solution makes for a more pleasing pattern.
>>28291470Imagine a cube as viewed by an ant.For the purposes of our analogy, the cube is floating in space so the whole surface is available.Now, to the ant there are 4 "rooms" (faces) accessible from the one he is on.There is also another room, two rooms over in one direction (the opposite face)A tesseract is the same with Cubes instead of Squares.>>28291509You flick the switch in a room.Each room in each Tesseract is also a room in one of the other Tesseracts, and flicking the switch changes where the doors from this room lead.I use a Cc notation, where the capital indicates the tesseract and the minimal the room.In my version, the Cn is also Nc, and a room where the letters are identical has no equivalent.
>>28291509The same way you go from one edge in a regular cube to another.Normally on a square each edge connects to two others, but on a cube you can be on one of two different square faces. So you can travel to one set of edges in the regular way, or there's some way to change your face and travel to the other two. The exact specifics of that last kind of transition for a 3d person in a tesseract are ambiguous. The general consensus seems to be some Portal/Antichamber/Silent Hill/Stephen King's thinnies style of you just walk in a direction that shouldn't be there and end up somewhere new and strange.
>>28291520What I think you've done (judging by the "Double" rooms) is combined the inner and outer rooms of a tesseract into the same thing.So when you expand it into a penteract you're only adding seven more tesseracts since you're short a face, and then the inner/outer tesseracts in the penteract are also getting merged, so you're down by 2 total.All that said it's not necessarily wrong and bad, bridging sections like that creates its own pretty interesting geometries, it's just not technically a 5-cube.
>>28291686The Center is the Inner.He's just made it so the Outer room does nothing.Really, he's just shifted the notation around so that Outer is always Cc or Nn or Ee or whatever.All Tesseract notation is arbitrary anyway, players could start in any of the rooms and it wouldn't make a difference.
>>28291746Yeah, but the center and the double (or the inner and the outer) both connect to the same other tesseract, if I'm understanding his notation properly. So this means the 5-dimensional shape he's constructed with this arrangement of tesseracts isn't technically a cube, since it doesn't have the proper number of 4-faces.Again, this isn't bad or anything, it's just a different kind of shape.
>>28266886>the whole favellafavela*also, every brazilian city has many favelas, some big, some small. it isn't that hard to think of someone knowing everyone by name
>>28291800They only connect in a roundabout way.Flicking in Outer/Double takes you back to Center, which lets you flick again to travel.
It's like a proto hivecity
>/tg/ sitting excited in the corner while the /sci/s make a dungeon for us
>>28291589wait so he's right? I count 64 rooms
>>28291983In his, flipping a switch in the outer/double room of a tesseract brings you back to the inner/central room of that tesseract. In a 5-cube each switch would bring you to the corresponding room in the different tesseract, in any of the rooms.So counting the same room on each face as distinct, a 5-cube has 80 rooms. Really though the 5-cube has 40 rooms and his has... 36?Which is a bit weird. 32 might've seemed correct, but the outer/double rooms aren't shared by any tesseract faces so we don't need to account for double counting them.
>>28270010I miss warehouse 13.
Arright, so we have the mechanics of the setting basically down.Now what's it actually LIKE in there? What's the culture like? The people? The gods? How did they get in there, anyway?
>>28292318Your standard "fallen in and made the most of it" should suffice, with the occasional "I want to get the fuck out already" thrown in for good measure.A good portion of "we've been here for generations" is always nice too.Perhaps each district was pulled in complete, and the residents had to learn to live with the neighbours.
the only thing that frightens me is the possibility of monotony. how do you keep the players interested in each new room, ensure the variety inherent in a real world slum
>>28292368If we're going with the closer to the real world vs. closer to god know's where districts, it suggests that people are capable of going into and out of the penteract pretty consistently. Maybe not easily, but with a certain level of preparation you should be able to do it.So it's possible everything was sucked in originally and then they found their way out, or it might be the case that people found an entrance to the structure first and then began to settle it.
>>28292440Or that the "inner" places are older, and it's like some hellish Katamari absorbing cities which get too big.
>>28292478Now I'm getting a kind of Fallen London vibe.I think the current plan is pretty sweet, but a penteract that's a crazy amalgamam of nine real world cities plus... something ancient would also be really cool too. As a bonus, we could also incorporate the actual Kowloon (which would of course be opposite from like, Versailles)The issue here is what did this thing look like before the ninth city? Was it a different kind of shape, or are there always nine cities and the oldest ones get absorbed into the ancient district?
There should also be the occasional geometric anomaly, stuff like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xFbRecjKQAevery so often. Not super-common, but occasionally, and the savvy locals, street urchins, and criminals know where they are, and there's always something interesting hiding in the occasional pocket space or bigger-on-the-inside shack. And there's always a few "shortcuts" that will semi-randomly connect two locations, the location of many of them is a loose secret and the couriers and thieves make heavy use of them. A crucial bit of local knowledge is knowing how the pathways shift and getting an intuitive sense of where they'll be, and when.(Temporal fuckery should be avoided though)The city government is of little power; the city is really ruled by the Fantasy Mafia, much like the actual Kowloon.>>28292440That's what I was thinking. The Modern/Outer district has a number of passages into the ordinary planes, scattered throughout anywhere that could be called a City. (This is also how the city gets water and stuff - the sewage lines and water mains sometimes also lead into the City). Some of the passages only lead in, some of the passages only lead out - doors which only exist going one way, and are an empty brick wall on the other, for instance. However, there do exist stable two-way passages, places where the lucky few can get real sunlight on rooftops and a real view on a balcony. I mean, the City of Cities has to get food SOMEWHERE, and they're certainly not growing it themselves.I was thinking that it'd be an ancient structure that humans settled, built originally as some kind of R'lyeh-like construct that humans remodeled and built over and lived in until little trace remains, except in the Ancient district. It leeches, parasitically, off of other cities, its roots branching out into cities all over the world, absorbing structures into its bulk and growing roots of pipe into aqueducts and sewers.
>>28292581The cities are gradually digested and fall into disrepair, eventually becoming the Ruin district.
>>28292583And as such, the City's REAL roots are in the Ancient district, where it branches out into Somewhere Else, ancient ruins where geometric fuckery runs rampant and strange beings lurk, places where alien flesh is grown and shaped as easily as bricks are laid or stone is carved. They are long-dead (probably) , but they built the place, for reasons unknown. (It is also unknown if the whole absorbing-cities thing was the purpose or not, or if it's some kind of tumor that grew out of control)The City assimilates buildings and alleys in cities all over the world, turning them into parts of the city, precious doorways to the outside. The City is also growing - slowly, in fits and starts, but steadily when averaged over long periods of time. There are tremors, every so often, usually once a year. When these occur, sometimes passages and buildings will be incorporated totally into the City, sucked in, alleys in the outside world slamming shut or buildings suddenly missing a floor and going straight from 12 to 14. Within the City, when a tremor occurs, then faces of each tesseract will sometimes be separated by a chasm, a gap somewhere between an inch or a foot across; these are then built over, with the net result being that the total volume of the City raises by quite a large amount of space - an extra inch or foot over every district and in every dimension adds up to rather a lot of space, over the years. It is thought that the City may have started out as a single room that grew over time. During these tremors, sometimes the links between faces and tesseracts are severed, and new ones formed - but some don't even notice; a door might still lead directly to the other side despite the fact that they have grown a foot apart. Over time, this leads to the strange Shortcuts that riddle the city.As the parts of the city grow older, they slowly move - imperceptibly, at rates that are nearly tectonic - towards the Ancient quarter, where they fall into ruin.
>>28292775This is excellent. This is what happens when /tg/, /sci/, and /x/ have a beautiful baby.
>>28270213Yeah I can relate. Why not add more gubbins to those guys and make them more interesting? Also, what the fuck is wrong with your hands? Dexterity?
>>28265015>>28265015I think this thread has determined that "Buildings fall. Everyone dies." Is a good deterrent.
>>28292583The logical, sane part of me is kind of horrified by the part of me that's now drawing a map.
>>28290820Fluffing districts randomly... Cathedral/Anarchy (Cathedral tesseract, Anarchy district)"The Quarter of Small Gods"A profusion of the more obscure or frowned-upon religions dominate here, far from the "official" religious doctrines. Here, there is worship of outlawed religions, here splinter sects and "heretics" congregate, here the strange and chaotic Discordians gather in the streets for their peculiar ceremonies. There is little order to this profusion of small gods.Anarchy/Cathedral(Anarchy tesseract, Cathedral district)"Thieves' Worship"Blending smoothly into its adjacent face, one can never be sure whether one is in one or the other. Criminals - especially the Pentads, the Mafia-like arrangement of criminal guilds that hold the real power in the city - are often more religious than any, and here the thieves and asassins and the Bosses of the Pentads confess and hold their rituals and ceremonies. It is a cramped, dangerous place, but still flows with faith.>>28293390And I'm fluffing the 80 goddamn districts. (Although if anyone could join in, that'd be great - I am NOT the best person to fluff these things)
>>28293477Slum/Government(Slum tesseract, Government district)"Watchman's Alley"Perhaps better off than the rest of the Slums, here the forces of justice are slightly stronger - though not by much; those idealists in government that seek to help are unpopular and overworked, and most are uncaring or corrupt - the Pentad's power runs deep. Vigilantes roam the street, doling out their particular brand of "justice" and trying to keep back the Pentads and protect the downtrodden.Interesting Location: The Voice of the Streets, a secret , semi-satirical, newspaper which acts as a dissenting and rebellious voice. No fixed address.Government/Slum(Government tesseract, Slum district)"Charity Row"And here are the shabby offices of those harried men and women that struggle to control, protect, and aid the slums. Often just as corrupt- if not more so - than the Pentad criminal organizations, and often political exiles from more prestigious positions who fell out of favor. Still, there are good souls here, who genuinely seek to help the poor occupants of the Slums.Interesting Place - the Watch, an underfunded organization which patrols the Slums. Think the Watch from Discworld, at least the early novels.
>>28293619(If anyone else wants to join in, go to http://www.random.org/lists/ and enter the ten different Districts. Randomize, pick the top two (unless they're opposites, in which case try again), and try them both ways. Figure out how those two districts could interact, give them a few sentences of fluff, and add in an interesting tidbit or location that could act as a plot point or something. Remember that X/Y and Y/X are always right next to each other, but that X/Y is closer to the center of X and Y/X is closer to the center of Y.)
>>28293477I'm on it, will return in one hour
>>28293619I'm stuck on Magical/Ancient - I can tell this one should be easy, but I can't think of any good ideas.
Note that since each district holds slightly more people than Monaco (except for maybe the Ancient districts), they are in no way going to be uniform.
>>28293619Luxury/New(Luxury Tesseract, New district)"Rich Man's Quarter"As close as the City gets to true luxury, this is it. The richest people congregate here, basking in the flow of fresh air; many even have rooms with real sunlight flowing in through windows, some even have real balconies or real rooftops.
Can someone get a google doc or pastebin or something up for this? That way we can compile all of the ideas in something more permanent than a thread
>>28297735The fact that you're not willing to put one together is a good sign that this will never go anywhere. Take initiative!(I can't because I just took a melatonin and it's a genuine struggle to keep my eyes open)
>>28297895Alrighty, money where mouth is.https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VLKr2RI5viIKvjoJTDK1GrnZrh6bXjls5lhvsD1eaf4/edit?usp=sharingDidn't add >>28297699 because I had no fucking clue what he/she/it meant by "New" district
>>28298193New as in the opposite of Ancient/Eldritch. (I couldn't think of a good name for it) The part of the city most recently constructed (or absorbed) and furthest from the Ancient section.
>>28298193A thought: Should we also include the "trigger" events/actions/objects that shift tessaracts?Something like "Walking south on the Street of Artisans," "Saying the proper name of a god-like entity three times in a row," "Placing a coin under a floorboard slat in the Merry Wench tavern," etc
>>28299030They probably shouldn't be that obscure - I was thinking that going from one tesseract to the adjacent one would be relatively simple, stuff like just walking down the right streets or alleys or through the right doorways.But I think doing some of the more obscure rituals would be a good way to enter "shortcuts" that link two locations in ways other than the normal links between tesseract, or as a way to enter various secret geometric anomalies.
>>28298989This got resolved to be Ancient/Threshhold. Ancient is where the barriers between the Penteract and the planes containing the Great Old Ones and similar tentacled and mind-melting horrors merge and flow, while Threshold is where the modern, mundane cities and towns merge instead. Turning a corner in a Threshold district might lead you onto a busy Manhattan street, to the back of a cobbler's shop in victorian london, or into a greasy pub in Faerun, while turning a corner in an Ancient district would likely lead to a sanity check, non-euclidean geometry, and probably tentacles of some sort or another
>>28292775The entire city dangles over black nothingness.Nothingness drapes over Bagworld.
Wait, how does gravity work in this thing? Are falling objects drawn to the bottom of each cube and emerge at the top of the next one, or does each cube house a miniplanet pulling objects to its center? Where's the floor? How are things just floating midair?
>>28300825What you consider "down" is where the gravity is.
>>28300825>*Or are things>>28300836So there's potential for an endless fall? Awesome.
>>28300825we talked about this, you Escher it
>>28292775Reminds me of House of Leaves
Someone better be archiving this shit on suptg
Looking at the googledoc, I see combos are listed twice depending on order (Slum/Industrial and Industrial/Slum for example.Drop that. It's meaningless.
You know it could have extremely weird ways of moving from one Tesseract to the other, but each cube-city is in two tesseracts at once.Look at the Luxury/Bazaar, to the Luxury inhabitants it connects to the rest of their Luxurious cubes, but to the Bazaar inhabitants it connects to their other markets.To move from one tesseract to another you have to change how the current cube sees you, and then you're free to move in the new tesseract because you came from an appropriate cube.And we need more Shortcut/Portals, they're a very interesting thing.Maybe some could even move you across Tesseracts far faster than should be possible, a doorway from Slum/Ancient to Luxury/New perhaps?
Holy shit,so there are fa/tg/uys from Hong Kong or at least have been there before.I was born in the 90s so I haven't seen the Walled City obviously,although I've heard about it.Maybe you guys can look into the ChungKing mansions as well.It's a little similar to the Walled City in terms of well,slum-ness,but in a single building.
>>28302009It's already archived.> http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/28265015/
>>28302168No, it's not. Read the thread. Basically, each cell has two "sides" , one of which is in the Industrial tesseract and one of which is in the Slum tesseract. By moving through certain locations, one moves from one "side" to the other.Imagine a cube - you can think of it as a cube with 12 edges, OR you can think of it as 6 squares each with 4 edges (24 in all) , with each of those edges directly adjacent to another edge.Industrial/Slum is in the Slum district of the Industrial tesseract, Slum/Industrial is in the Industrial district of the Slum tesseract, and if you know the pathways you can slip seamlessly from one to the other.
>>28300825Each cube has its own "down" , and these are fairly well synchronous - if you "unfold" the tesseract, there is an unfolding where all the "downs" are aligned.If you go between two cubes in such a way that the gravity does NOT make sense, there's a sharp change from one to the other. This provides certain combat advantages if you're used to it and your pursuer or enemy is not.Sometiems the architecture has ramps or angled ladders put in place on such a transition to make up for it, but usually you just brace yourself, try not to vomit or hit your head on the pavement, and eventually it becomes second-nature.
>>28302726But that's not how it works. Each Edge is part of two Faces, not just adjacent to them.In the same way, each Cube is the link between two Tesseracts.
>>28302758Well that's not how we decided it works in Meta-Kowloon- 80 cubical cells, each with two "sides", with many pathways from one side to the other. Each Cube is still the "link" between two tesseracts - Going through Slum/Industrial to Industrial/Slum takes you directly from Slum tesseract to the Industrial tesseract. This has been fairly well established earlier in the thread.
>>28302794See earlier post here, and subsequent posts which followed that theme.>>28290206
>>28302758"Adjacent" isn't the correct word, sure, but there needs to be some representation of moving to the opposite face of the same surface, and two similar but slightly different representations of each cube seemed like a reasonable way to do this.
>>28302361I know one dude who posts (rarely) on /tg/ and is from North Korea. He obviously doesn't post on /tg/ from North Korea.
>>28302794>>28302808But how can you convey the difference between Industrial/Slum and Slum/Industrial?It's better to do it like >>28302294 and have the same space lead to different tesseracts for different people.To use the Cube metphor, your feet are on one side but you're leaning over to mix with people on another face.
>>28290971I like it. A GOOD sladd? Crazy.Such is the city of madness it makes the righteous wicked and the wicked righteous
>>28302865How do you convey the difference? Like this:>>28293477>>28293619Note that Cathedral/Anarchy and Anarchy/Cathedral are very similar, and blend naturally into one another, but are still different districts.
>>28302866I don't know if we're still set in Pandemonium, but I thought that the fallen archon was attempting to rebuild the many sections of the city in such a way that the wind and noise going through it would produce a song. He's been relocating people from their homes into the less savory parts of the city so that his grand plan might continue, which brings him in conflict with the other two players. He controls the Cathedral districts, and has his own army of law givers whose only job is pursuing and executing law breakers.
>>28302887So the Mega City now has Judges. I approve. Go on.
>>28302943Well, the idea was that the city has to be similar to Kowloon and be a den for criminal activity, but at the same time, you can't have guys running around spells blazing and causing collateral damage or the entire place will come crashing down. That's where the Judges come in.If you want to enter or leave the city, you have to go through them. Teruviel is the only one insane enough to figure out how the place works, and he has mapped the portals coming in and out the city, which gave him the edge in controlling the place. They're also responsible for maintaining some semblance of order there, by forcing the criminal cartels and merchants to cooperate with one another or risk never setting foot in here again.I don't know if we're using border space as well (basically, the space that's between the cubes but that at the same time doesn't belong to them), but I figured that the worst offenders are sent there, to wander between the cubes with no protection from the insane wind and noise. That'd also be where the Slaad set his base and from where he launches operations against the insane angel.
The citizens of Kosserite (not sure about the name - not even sure it’s still in a stalactite) exist in the ordinary three dimensions- mostly. In some families that have been in the City for several generations, especially in the areas nearest to the Ancient tesseract, perhaps one in a thousand births a Sidewalker is born. Slidewalkers have the ability to extend themselves slightly into the additional fourth and fifth dimensions that the City is built in. This is useful for a number of interesting tricks - turning closed objects inside-out, instantly undoing any knots, and flipping chiral objects to the opposite chirality (Which, among other things, converts sugar molecules to a useful zero-calorie sweetener, and leaves them with their heart on the other side of their body). But most importantly it allows them to reach and move past solid objects - reaching through safes, moving "around" solid walls.The strange "border space" just outside or just inside the tesseract shows many of the signs of Ancient architecture - stone and metal which seem to have dripped or flowed into organic shapes, living flesh and bone which has been shaped like architecture - and should not be inhabited for long. Some claim to have even withnessed living Ancients in it.Sidewalkers are not ALWAYS criminals, but the ability to move through all solid barriers certainly helps. (They can be kept out by certain magical wards, and they cannot enter various geometric anomalies via Sidewalking - the twisted-up knots and bubbles of space can only be entered in ordinary three-dimensional fashion by the proper entrance. Sidewalkers who try to enter them from the "outside" usually find themselves fatally - or at least painfully - stretched, squashed, cut into bits, or stuck through walls.)
>>28282594Why were posts invisible? Another 4chan glitch?
>>28303133[TRANSLATION: I have had a terminal sarcasm deficiency since birth. I can't help my condition. I'm sorry.]
Proposing archival. Or collecting this someplace. Because once my adventurers start sniffing around the planes after level 10 or so? So tossing this in. XD
>>28303423I'm proud of you, /tg/.
>>28291339>They have no personality beyond "I FLAY BABIES AND TURN ORPHANS INTO PAIN LASERS OF TEARS!"Then you give them personality, either as a player or a DM. Do you even roleplay ?
As we know, there are 8 cubes/rooms/districts in a tesseract. Let's say you are in District A. When you look north, you see the southern part of District B, and if you go north, you'll end up there. You can say north is the door to District B (from A.) When you look to the west, you see the eastern part of District C. When you look up, you see stairs or whatever leading to the underside of District D. When you look south, you see the northern part of District E, and so on. But what do you see far off in the northwest? Or the upper west fringe of the sky? Well, you see what lies between Districts B and C, and between Districts D and C. If you go north to District B, and go east to "meet" district C (from the point of view of someone in District A), you end up in, say, District D (or maybe E.) If you go west to District C and then south to meet District B, you end also end up in the same District D (this is anything but a coincidence.) Therefore District D (the southeastern part of it) is the meeting point between District B and C.You find much the same thing going up and west: the meeting point here is... District E.We can extrapolate that when you look to the northwest you see the southeastern part of District D, and if you look up towards the west, you can see the eastern fringe of District E's underside. And so on.By the way, you obviously can't see or reach District A's opposite (District H) no matter where you look from inside District A.I think we're now pretty clear on the transition between districts in a tesseract (the basics were covered earlier in the thread, but feel free to ask questions.)Let us next consider switching between tesseracts.
>>28304254As we know, each district is present in two tesseracts in the Penteract, and there are 10 tesseracts total. From a tesseract, you can switch to 8 other tesseracts: one tesseract can't be reached. Here's my idea of how switching works: at the center of every district, there is a large structure or landmark We could call it the anchor. When you go there and some conditions are met (doing a specific action, the stars aligning properly, or maybe just entering the building) the rest of the district changes over to its mirror in the second tesseract. This is the switch. You will notice the change when you exit the structure, or maybe you will even watch your surroundings shifting before your eyes (as in Silent Hill.) The district in the new tesseract is similar but different. People in particular should still exist (you're still there, that guy you said hello to before entering the building is still there) but may change superficially (the guy could be an orc, you could find that the wad of dollar bills in your jeans pocket changed into a bag of gold coins in the sleeve of your kimono) while retaining their personalities and most of their memories (you remember you said hello to the orc dude, and so does he. However he doesn't remember being human or that you were wearing jeans back then.) Only people who switched at the anchor are aware of the switch and in possession of their full memory. Others just got the feeling that something was not quite right for an instant before mentally adjusting.The switch becomes even more obvious when you look to the distance: the districts connected to this one are completely different from the ones before (for those who still remember.)That's how you move inside the Penteract. But what of moving to and from the Penteract? How do you enter the Penteract, or leave?
This all seems kind of familiar.Have you considered the implementation of clockwork monstrosities and a game of tag, OP?
>>28305051First, let us dispel the notion that you can reach the outside by traveling through some district.The tesseracts are all adjacent to each other except for their opposites, and each tesseract is "bordered" on all "sides" by tesseracts (8 of them). Same thing for rooms: each room is bordered in all directions by a room (6 in total, and its opposite off limits). Nowhere can you find a point closer to the outside or inside of the Penteract in a proper sense.However, some tesseracts are special, in that the fabric of reality grow porous and connects to realities outside of the Penteract. They are rightfully known as Thresholds.What happens is that once in a blue moon, the outside reality and the tesseract are somehow fused for an instant. In Elder Scrolls terms, it's like the end of a Dragon Break. Or maybe the start of a Dragon Break. It's a matter of perspective. Anyway, in that moment, people who were outside the Penteract become aware that they are inside of it, and people who were inside realize they have been thrown outside. This is much like a switch between tesseracts, except you end up in another reality rather than another tesseract, and the "anchor" point is all 8 districts in the Threshold and their counterparts in the other world. The process is still poorly understood, and its causes possibly unknowable.
>>28305397Two Thresholds are verified to exist. The one we're most familiar with is the Modern tesseract: its districts are mirror images of geographical locations in our own world.The other is the Ancient tesseract: rumor has it that its districts mirror stranges places in an alien dimension we call Somewhere Else, or the (other) Outside. Some claim that the dimension is just an endless void and people who cross over there only find oblivion. Indeed, it's difficult to find anyone who claims to have come back, and even more difficult to verify that they aren't lying.Of course, these two tesseracts are opposite each others in the Penteract.It's much easier to enter the Penteract crossing the Modern Threshold, and easier to leave crossing the Ancient Threshold. And vice versa. "New" people bringing new ideas and objects from our world cross over to the Modern tesseract often, hence its modernity and similarity to our own; while people who hang around the Ancient tesseract for too long tend to drift off to Somewhere Else, leaving only the vestiges of their existence behind.There is a theory that, in fact, all the tesseracts are Thresholds to outside realities. For example, all districts in the Magical tesseract would be connected to some idealized realm of magic (the Supernal, the Aether...) Yet I find it hard highly unlikely that the great diversity found in the Magical tesseract could mirror any single reality.But who knows? Maybe the Magical Threshold is simply the conducts through which all mana flows into the Penteract from outside. Maybe all the outer realities lightly intersect each others and converge inside the Penteract. Much research remains to be done.
>>28305051Eeehhh. I think it should all be one big city, not 10 parallel universes with Twilight-zone differences.
>>28305421There's really two ways to go about it: either A/B and B/A are the exact same district and only its neighbors change depending on the reference tessaract, or A/B and B/A are mirrors as explained in the switch post.I think the second option has more potential, is somewhat easier to understand, and doesn't throw the entire universe into chaos every time a switch occurs. But that's just my interpretation.
>>28305051>>28305568I'm all aboard with A/B and B/A being mirrors of each other, but I'm not really sure if I like the people being mirrored as well.If we go back two dimensions and consider our districts as lines on a cube for example, I'd be okay with different people occupy different sides of the same line.So red and blue are both on the right side of the line, on the right face of the cube. But when red switches to the left face of the cube there isn't a mirror version of blue. There's another completely different guy, green, who spends most of his time in the same district, but on the other side of the switch.This might be somewhat inaccurate, I am not a mathematician, but it seems like it would be a lot easier in practice.
>>28305634And.. I forgot my picture.
>>28305568I was basically just thinking that A/B and B/A were just two different places which happened to be connected in an unusual fashion, yeah. The buildings are different, the people are different, you don't find "mirror people" or deal with memory fuckery. They're just different places, but instead of going to them by moving in any of the ordinary 6 directions you go through alleyways or portals or doorways and come out on the other side.
>>28305692"Two sides of the same place" might be a little more accurate than "two different places". But yeah, the main thing is you can't get from one to the other, and consequentially can't move between tesseracts, just be travelling in regular Euclidean space.
>>28305708Yeah, you get there by geometric anomalies. I'm not totally digging the "Anchors" idea, where there's one big central magical portal between them - I was thinking that the volume of each cube would be swiss-cheesed with passageways to the other "side," with a slight change in theme - the Luxury/Industrial side is going to be richer, the Industrial/Luxury side is more "industrial." Some of the passageways are secret or obscure, others are well-known thoroughfares.
>>28305755I'd figure that if you find a big enough passageway, you're going to build something around it if possible. If only because then you get to charge people for going through.So large switch/anchor structures doesn't really upset me, but smaller or even temporary passages should also be a thing.
>>28265015They tore it down in 1993.
>>28305828>doesn't think that has been mentioned in the past day and a half of the thread
>>28305797Yeah. Like, you've got the (relatively) large thoroughfares, but you've got smaller alleys and secret doors and sometimes passages just pop up in people's cupboards and crawlspaces. Knowing where the more obscure passages are is a critical local skill for the street-savvy.
would there be ramps and such at the edges of the cubes so that people standing on one side can walk to another (like in super mario galaxy for instance) without having to leave that cube?
>>28305828Why are you posting that ugly, atrocious cunt of a slut you dipshit?
>>28306425 For most of the cubes, the gravity is the same, so you can just straight-up walk from one to the other.If you're going in a direction where gravity doesn't match,>>28302748So yeah, sometimes there are ramps.
>>28291354>>28291441Just finished an alternative. Better late than never.Same principle of switch, but the ones at the center have two additional tesseracts to teleport to, for more symetry.
>>28306498that doesn't seem to fit how the cubes in a tesseract would connect. see:http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/27825438/#27825909
>>28307070No, it does. I'll draw a diagram. Just a sec while I find my tablet.
I'm having trouble changing the google doc, I'm just going to post fluff here
>>28306860All right niggas now we got something
Here are three simple patterns for gravity inside each cube (unless we admit exceptions).The first one theorically allows endless falls inside the same hypercube, and inside the entire penteract if you fall through the switches/teleporters. Note that with Kowloon's population density, you barely need ladders: buildings would be on top of each other.With the two last models, the danger is in the tunnels, but you get Inception-like cityscapes.
>>28305634I'd say this; alternate version of people sounds stupid
>>28307372I was going for the first one, where every cube has a linear "down" , with the occasional mismatch of "down" when you cross from one cube to the other.Imagine that there's an Upper, Lower, Inner, Outer, North, South, East, and West cube. You can walk "North" from the Inner cube forever, traveling from Inner -> North -> Outer - > South -> Inner, and have "down" be constant the whole time, and likewise you can just take the stairs up from the Inner cube forever, going Inner - > Up -> Outer -> Down -> Inner.But imagine you're in the Inner cube. You go down, and now you're in the Down cube - gravity has remained constant for you this whole time. But now you go North, and come up through the floor of the North cube - and abruptly, gravity switches, because what was a wall in the Down cube is a floor in the North cube.
the bottom left version, where all 6 sides are simultaneously a wall, ceiling and floor seems to be the best
>>28307372Water would perpetually flow like inside a single tesseract; teleporters could easily send it elsewhere, creating a complex pattern.
>>28307498But then you can't get endless falls, which I think is a huge plus. If there are locations where you can fall forever and come right back where you started, or climb stairs forever and come right back where you started, or even just walk forever and come right back where you started, I think that's a huge plus.
>>28307532You can do this still >climb stairs forever and come right back where you started, or even just walk forever and come right back where you started,
So, anyone else thinking that this should belong on a different plane than Pandemonium? Perhaps the Ether or the Astral, or maybe it's a demiplane on its own?
>>28265015I was born too late, I so very much wish I could have visited that city before it was demolished. That's just an incredible place....
>>28307616I was thinking its own demiplane, yeah.So here's what I was thinking of, with the "gravity" thing. (Sorry if the drawing's confusing, conveying 4D connectivity in a 2D drawing is very difficult.)This is a "Net" of a tesseract. Imagine unfolding a cube, and you'll get a "net" of a cube. (In fact, cut out a cube net in a cross shape like this and play with it - it'll help you get an idea of how the sides connect.)In this "net" , if you travel in any of the six directions from the Inner (I) or Outer (O) cubes, you'll loop right around without ever feeling the gravity shift - each cube is a solid "block" with a uniform gravity direction at every point. But if you try traveling N, S, E, or W from the Upper or Lower cubes, or traveling Up or Down in the N, S, E, or W cubes, you'll feel a gravity shift - you enter through a wall and come out through the floor or ceiling, or vice versa. In official thoroughfares, this is smoothed out with ramps and gravity spells; in secret pathways or disused alleys, the shift is abrupt; your "down" suddenly changes direction as soon as you cross the threshold, and if you don't cross quickly you'll end up with one half of your body being pulled in one direction and one half being pulled in the other. This is unpleasant and may cause vomiting in the unwary or inexperienced.
>>28307616Yeah pandemonium is kind of the opposite of what we're looking at, it would make more sense in that law plane filled with gears
>>28307489>>28307864So first model here >>28307372 definitely also have its own gravity shenanigans, plus endless falls. Looks like the most fun so far. Pity, I like the aesthetic of the third one. Feels less claustrophic if you have other quarters up in the air.
>>28307864Here's another pic, this one oriented differently, with labels. If you're only traveling in the right directions, you could basically visualize each tesseract as a single building like this, with looping portals on the ends connecting everything to both the Outer and Inner rooms, and connecting the N->E->S->W loop in one big horizontal loop.But if you're traveling up or down in any of the N, E, S, or W cells, or N, E, S, or W in the Up or Down cells, then gravity shifts.
>>28307981It's based on Kowloon, it's supposed to be claustrophobic, a solid block of city.(This was the other bonus of the "Linear gravity in each cube" scheme - it let each cell be a solid cubical block of buildings. )
>>28307973Mechanus? Why not, but please please please for all that is holy don't introduce any sort of -punk into this city.>>28308013Yeah, but can you imagine how an outsider would feel inside of this monstrosity? No sky, no natural light, recycled air and food, endless waterfalls everywhere, no fucking end even conceivable, and all of that inside a plane that isn't that big.
>>28308100>foodOkay yeah that's a good point. There's more than two and a half million people inside this thing - what the fuck are they EATING? There'd have to be serious trade with the outside.
>>28308148Or they recycle their dead. You know, go Golgari on their ass.
>>28308148Fungus, probably. Or if it's a fantasy setting, conjured food and water.
>>28308100>Yeah, but can you imagine how an outsider would feel inside of this monstrosity? No sky, no natural light, recycled air and food, endless waterfalls everywhere, no fucking end even conceivable, and all of that inside a plane that isn't that big.Good
>>28308172Recycling the dead isn't stable, though. Thermodynamics don't work that way.Since it IS supposed to be a fantasy setting, I think the conjured-food-and-water thing is probably best, plus whatever the City can bring in through the various stable passages to the outside world.
>>28291354It's all fun and games until the players say they want to prop open all the doors at once and then ask you to describe what they see when they look through them.
>>28308235>ThermodynamicsExcuse me, I thought for a moment we were talikng about a possible D&D setting here.>>28308172While we're at it - doesn't Ravnica have a few pockets of nature left? Maybe we can have that in some quarters. Unless we go full >>28308230 .
>>28308100Mechanus wouldn't work, this place is a bit too chaotic for its taste. Better make it an independent demiplane.>>28308235Well, you can have portals to the elemental plane of water somewhere. Maybe have enormous piping systems that serve as both sewers and the food and water source going through the entire city that's worshiped as the circulatory system of something greater.We could even make the entire city seem alive in some weird way.
>>28308235>pour lots of water through passages>create infinite waterfall>attach water wheel>power universe
>>28308312I just like having settings that AREN'T pants-on-head retarded. Ignoring thermodynamics for mundane processes is like drawing your fantasy map with rivers flowing uphill - a stupid newbie mistake.
>>28308337>>28308339That said, I'm totally fine with infinite waterfalls and waterwheels. That's how the physics work in this particular setting.(In fact, now I have a great idea for some of the Industrial districts)
>>28308337Wouldn't it eventually pool in the borders between cubes? At some point each cube's gravity pulls it equally in opposite directions, and without outside force it will just sit there.
>>28308381If we go with the linear-gravity option, then there are just pathways where gravity is in the same downwards direction through the entire loop.
>>28308381The gravity is entirely artificial.As shown here >>28307522 , there's always somewhere for the water to go (Bottom -> Double -> Top -> Everywhere Else -> Bottom). And that's not even counting magic.
>>28308392Ah, I thought gravity always pointed towards the nearest wall.I guess it's not really doing anything that you couldn't do with a decanter of endless water anyway, but casually adding infinite free energy seems like it might cause trouble.
>>28308451They've got to power the city SOMEHOW.
>>28308522They could simply ask the babe...
>>28307864that would make half the doors one-way only. why bother including gravity shifts at all? what's wrong with having it be like that Escher painting?also, should someone start a new thread? this is in auto sage
>>28309673They're not one-way only. You can just go through the same door and experience gravity shifting in the other direction. There are well-known methods to enter doors in the ceiling; they're called "stairs" and "ladders."
>>28308590The babe with the power.