What advantages might we have going for us among other sapient species
>>28240670we have towels
>>28240670That image makes me uncomfortable because the vast majority of those are either something you would expect another race to have, or are something an alien race would have bountiful experience in through their own ecosystem/civilization (or at the very least, understand the process.)Like people don't go "HOLY SHIT BEARS CAN SLEEP FOR MONTHS ON END WITHOUT EATING," they go "Oh yeah, they hibernate I guess."
>>28240670When Humanity joined the Gallimaufry, the first impressions of established idea sifters were rather disappointing. Yes, they were entertainingly crazy, but their quirks were mere amplifications of other neuroses and psychoses that had been in and out of vogue for millennia.Then it was revealed that humans froze liquids. No big news there. The concept that electrified the Gallimaufry was that Humans stuck a handle into the frozen liquid and ate it! Still frozen!Shockwaves of tsunami-like proportion ran through the culinary schools of the galaxy. Entire industries were spawned and fought over, and at least two desert dwelling races were saved from extinction.And most important of all, when Humanity threw a party with refreshments, everybody came.
>>28240738Like take the "we heal from wounds with extreme rapidity" statement. They claim humans can recover from wounds that would take months or years for other races... Based on what? Pretty much every species on our planet does this, and it seems very reasonable to assume creatures that have precious bodily fluids pumping through their flesh tubes would have similar mechanisms in place.>Removing a limb will not fatally incapacitate a HumanThat's actually false. If left untreated a Human will definitely die if someone bites off their leg. If it means even with treatment, then that's a very inefficient creature.
>>28240761 Buck Godot for the win
This idea was mentioned in other HFY threads; the idea that humans are the only or at least the main race capable of cognitive dissonance.It's a little silly but I think it's quite cool. I also like to imagine that humanity is basically the 'bottom of the barrel' when it comes to home planets. Like if our home planet was even 1% shittier then it is, we could never have created an interstellar race in context of the story. Making humans the 'savage' race is quite interesting, in my opinion, since humans are usually seen as the NOT savage race in basically every other type of fiction.
>>28240670Just think about how badass we're going to be when we all eventually become cyborgs. NOTHING will be able to stop humanity!Except, I guess, ourselves?
>>28240842>the idea that humans are the only or at least the main race capable of cognitive dissonance.Except cognitive dissonance is absolutely essential for the development of civilization.How are you supposed to form a society or advance technologically if you're literally incapable of understanding two opposing views.
>>28240842>is basically the 'bottom of the barrel' when it comes to home planets.Earth's actually pretty fucking rich in the whole natural resources department.
>>28240670you could roll with the endurance predator thing, that's what my rpg makes human's hat
>>28240670Our psychology is influenced greatly by our ecological niche. That we are prey animals gives us anxiety disorders and makes us cowardly. That we are hunting animals means we are psychologically able to kill and plot the deaths of other beings. Humans make large social groups and long child juvenility. If we were solitary apex predators that abandoned their children until a later age we would be entirely different.
>>28240670Religious, they keep coming at you because they're chanting religious hymns and they think their god will protect them (think Sisters of Battle shield of faith 6++ and you won't be far off.Amazing tolerance for pain, fatigue, hunger, and extreme temperatures.They drink alcohol, which other races probably will not understand considering the stuff is toxic.Fucking brutal. They are willing to kill each other over very minor differences.They weaponised fire, a very uncontrollable and inefficient item, because they like to burn shit.Thousands of years of warfare since the beginning of human civilisation have made them true masters of warfare. Few races in all the galaxy can match the scale and ferocity of human organised warfare.Low sexual dimorphism: their women fight almost as well as the men, and sometimes better even.All classes of their society have the ability to do anything other classes can with the proper training.No pity: humans do not appear to understand the meaning of mercy (though it has been speculated to be shown to fellow humans) and expect none for themselves
>>28240932>They drink alcohol, which other races probably will not understand considering the stuff is toxic.>Other races wouldn't know what alcohol is.Huh.
Want to know what humans might have going for them compared to alien species? Just look at our closest cousins and see what they have.Hand-eye coordination, tool-using aptitude.What if all the other alien species have manipulators that are not as effective as our five things and opposable thumb? Sure they can pick up a pen and write something, but their mind is blown when they see us do caligraphy or paint a picture. Their guns have smart systems to help with aiming, where as we just line up the iron sights and pull the trigger. They wonder where the autopilot is, and what all those knobs, dials, pedals, and sticks are for in our aircraft; managing all those controls with their clumsy manipulators is not feasible.Sure, they might have better agility, strength, or intelligence, but our hands and coordination are the envy of the galaxy.Wait until we show them juggling. The fuckers will be slack-mandibled for weeks.
>>28240932>They weaponized fire, a very uncontrollable and inefficient item, because they like to burn shit.So you're saying a race that has mastered the very fabric of reality to propel their ships across the stars is incapable of handling a simple fire?
>>28240974I think he means actually using fire for warfare because it can go uncontrolled and burn the fuck out of everything.
>>28240974I'm saying that it isn't worth their time to use it in warfare, because look at the stuff, it kind of destroys everything
>>28240932>Low sexual dimorphism: their women fight almost as well as the men, and sometimes better even.Full retard.
>>28240995>>28241001So you're saying that when they watch a forest fire, they basically go "yup, can't do anything about that. Shit's just gotta burn itself out?"
>>28240974There's a difference between handling fires and firebombing cities of 500,000 into the ground.
I figure if we ever encounter another sapient it'll be our most boring traits that distinguish us meaningfully.Like: "shit, will you look at those fucking humans walk? Bet they could just keep doing that all day, every day!"Or, "humans can balance spoons on their weird noses. How cool is that?"
>>28241041I want /pol/ to leave.
>>28241054>and firebombing cities of 500,000 into the ground.>Firebombing, where the purpose is to cause as many fires as possible and make it difficult as possible to control>Using it as an example of Humanity controlling fire.Next you're going to say flamethrowers are an example of Humanity's mastery of fire.
>>28241088And do what? Return to /pol/? Who would ever want to go there?
>>28241112>Refugees from /pol/ going to other, more tolerant boards and refusing to integrate into the new board's culture.It's like poetry, it rhymes.
>>28240670In one of the settings I'm currently working on, Humanity is one of the only "heavy-world" intelligence that managed to actually get interstellar flight going by themselves. 10 meters per second per second of gravitational acceleration is considered crushing by other species, which evolved on considerably smaller bodies and gas-giant moons. The higher the gravity, the harder it is for a civilization to achieve spaceflight; the only reason humans were able to into space at all was because we had an extremely rare very large moon, providing an easy target and a low-gravity waypoint for future expansion. Almost all other heavy-world civilizations destroy themselves before they can attain a permanent foothold in space; we only just barely made it.
>>28241123Well, of course. /pol/ hates integration.
>>28240945They would know what alcohol is, they just don't understand why you would drink the stuff, which is nearly poisonous to humans
>>28241155Enough animals seek out fermented fruits on our world, and fermentation is so god-damned useful that, as cool as you think it is, I'm willing to bet alcohol isn't our "charm point".
Making humans in any setting seems to be kind of difficult.I have a custom setting running right now and i did it by taking what we're already capable of and just... fudging the numbers a little.>Humans can endure much longer than any other race. They will keep fighting long after even the strongest warrior race has grown too tired to lift their sword.>Humans are the longest lived of any of the mortal races. Easily reaching a maximum 150-200 years, where the closest any other race comes is a maximum of ~75-80.>Humans distinctively lack empathy for anything non-human. Making them a dangerous enemy to make. While humans can form bonds with the other races, it's almost psychologically impossible for them to view them on the same level. Leaving their views of other races as little more than "favorite animals"
>>28241088>everyone who I don't agree with and/or isn't a liberal is from /pol/
>>28241223/pol/ pls go.
>>28241088You can't take that comment seriously
>>28241198I'm beginning to believe that aliens will probably be both extremely unusual and extremely common to us.Like a hexapodal creature with eight eyes and a proboscis that nevertheless has a very relatable history, physiology, culture and/or mannerisms.
>>28240670I always thought we might have discovered and invented something that other races just.. didn't.Like, take for example electricity. What if, instead of electricity, other species used massed psychic ability to move their ships. What if they needed thousands of psychically attuned workers to fly their spaceships.'Wait. You mean, someone can pilot their ship on their own.. and they don't have to propel it with their mind? What?'Or maybe aliens can't see orange, like deer. But they're being slaughtered by a virus that is recognised by streaks of orange on their skin or something like that?
>>28241357>I always thought we might have discovered and invented something that other races just.. didn't.Bicycles.The sum of what makes Humanity completely unique compared to the rest of the galaxy, is bicycles.
>>28240965This is the best answer in my opinion. We have no real idea what another alien species would look like, but if you look at what we really do well compared to other species on earth it is tool manipulation. Obviously we would expect any other intelligent species to be able to use tools as well, but with so much of our brain devoted to using our hands I would bet it would be seen as our song point.I would also add that I think our facial expressions would be seen as unique. We devote a lot of our brains to our faces and other species likely use a different method of communication than facial expressions.This is all assuming we have any strengths in comparison at all.
>>28240670Maybe nothing. Maybe we meet another bipedal humanoid race with two eyes and ears that mostly look the same as humanity.Except instead of their Britain analogue winning, France did. Maybe their Nazi equivalent won and they all have the same general eye/hair color.It's by definition, alien.So we have no clue.
>>28241357>TelekinesisI doubt it>OrangeThis seems more plausible
>>28240670Among "science fiction sapient species" ?>We can sweat>We communicate through singing>We can long distance run>We can eat a wide variety of foods>We're Terrestrial>We breath oxygen>We can breed whenever>We display a staggering level of biodiversity and adaptability.
>>28241155Alcohol destroys your liver and makes you temporarily/permanently stupid. I figure they'd be mildly disgusted/disturbed at best.
>>28241394>We devote a lot of our brains to our faces and other species likely use a different method of communication than facial expressions.You know what, I'm one of the pretty fuckin' critical guys in this thread and... I might have to agree with this one.That being said, I have to add the caveat that other races would probably have other body parts to display emotion; dogs wag their tail and "bow" for example, or maybe they have wings/flaps that raise, lower, vibrate or somesuch. Another easy one is pheromones.But none of those are able to do quite what a face does.
>>28241422Or maybe they were able to get into space organically. Living ships.
>>28241463Celery is excessively toxic to cats yet we eat that just fine.Deer eat leaves and plants that would give a Human, at best, severe cramps and constipation, if not kill outright.I'm sure they'd understand that we're able to handle something they can't.
>>28241394Facial expressions seem reasonable, but any assumption that we'd be heading the market on agile manipulators and tool use sounds deeply wishful.
>>28241504Whoops, meant to quote >>28241457
>>28241329Well, anything that makes to the point of reliably launching things into space would need to be a social creature, because, you know, spaceships are complicated.Industry belongs to social groups. Competitive-minded social groups will have an edge over others.Any creatures that master space flight will be group-competitively minded, relatively the same psychology as a religious organization or political party.
What if humans were really really good at lying.Other races could do it, sure. But nothing so seamless as what an accomplished human could do.If you go with this concept, humans would be expert storytellers as well. Fiction is nothing more than a carefully thought out lie.
>>28241514Probably, but I think it is one of the few things we can actually claim to do well physically and we devote a lot of resources to it. If they aren't at all impressed by our hands I don't think we will impress with anything unless they somehow understand our art.
>>28241516I apologize, by best I was referring to maximum shock factor, in that case "worst" would be "Hey, we do the same thing for similar reasons!"
>>28241541Thats fairly plausible. I like that. I like that a lot.
>>28241541You could probably use the "advanced facial expressions" perk with the "really good at lying" perk.Keeping a straight face is probably the most important (or second most behind vocal tone) way to properly tell a lie.
>>28241541>Humans are extremely good at deception>Consequently, Humans are good at diplomacySo this means Humans would be the galaxy's spies and diplo- GOD DAMMIT WE'RE BACK AT SQUARE ONE.Assuming HFY is centered around making Humanity *not* the stereotypical diplomat/spy race.
>>28241616Humanity as diplomats in most settings is because we 'get along with everyone' and other niceness.Humanity as diplomats because we can lie through our teeth to aliens is a bit different.
>>28241541The problem is, would we be able to determine if another species was lying? If other species had observable clues to see if they were lying, we would probably get a reputation for being psychic since we could call them on their bullshit, and lie so convincingly for our own gain
>>28241568That's just it. I'm pretty sure the things in each-other we find totally rad will disappoint the other when that day comes.Will we be amazed by our neighbours' (capacity for) art, beauty, craft, and inner life?No, we're going to focus on something as banal as the bioluminescent strips on their backs. Just like they'll disappoint us by gawking at our funny noses.
>>28241616This is why I kind of favor humans just having a bonus to industrial production or economy or something. Decent intellect combined with cheap/effective labor due to useful hands and social stratification.
>>28241658I think it's because of both. We are very good at making friends with anything. And at the same time we are very good at fibbing. Humans are THE most social and can quickly learn to circumvent or improve a foreign systemA double edged sword like any other sentient race.
>>28241697The first race we encounter uses pheromones to display emotion. During our first diplomatic encounter one starts lying to us and releases an odor comparable to rotten eggs. The Human diplomat gets visibly disgusted and starts to retch, leaving the meeting. The alien interprets this as the Human being able to see through it's lie (and promptly leaving in anger) and the story sort of spreads from there.
>>28240670I like to think that our limbs are pretty handy in that they can rotate in many ways.
>>28241541Wouldn't most species be good at lying to each other, because their facial expressions and body language were mutually incompatible?Actually...On Earth, a lot of body language is fairly standard, but human body language is ... weird. Stuff like baring your teeth to show happiness, unlike every other species on Earth.What if human body language is also totally mis-aligned to other species, which is what makes it so much easier for us to lie?(Well, that and a million years of ape society)
>>28241705>"I'm not even shitting you man, they've got external ears. And their pupils are *circular.* How funky is that, right?"
>>28241541For some reason I'm being reminded of that conversation with Liara after you pick her up from Therum.You know, the one where she's flabbergasted at Joker and Shepard constantly using sarcasm to the point that she just says it's a "human thing."
>>28241705>Just like they'll disappoint us by gawking at our funny noses.Hah! It's so big and squishy!
>>28241357What about the color pink?
>>28241705Maybe, but I bet some things like natural wonders would be impressive to both. That opens the door to some of our art being respected in both societies.
>>28241822Since magenta is an optical illusion, an artifact of the human visual system, it's entirely possible that aliens would perceive it differently.
>>28241786And yet sarcasm isn't universal across all human cultures and languages. So it's not incomprehensible to imagine aliens not naturally using it.
>>28241756So, i was telling a joke to that human guy - yeah the joke about the sky-cow? Anyway, just as I finish he starts making this horrible... sound. His body twitched and he spat water all over me. Then his eyes started to leak, then stared at me with these red, demonic eyes, he looked like he was going to kill me. His mouth was like a tundra cat before they kill our cattle. Then he hit me and said 'You're funny, I like you.'Humans, man.
None.Any technological species is going to have the same origins as we do. There's only one way to do it.On top of that, self-enhancement is going to mean that the most technologically advanced species are also the most physically powerful; better materials mean stronger, more durable muscles and bones.
>>28241829Sorry, I could have been more clear. I am fairly certain that, so long as that art is experienced with senses and relatable to phenomena shared by both species members, we would rapidly become enthralled by the other's art, as would they with ours.It's the capacity for art, rather, that I would caution /tg/ against thinking makes us "different". It is a direct extension of metaphorical thinking, and sapience demands that quality.
>>28241913Yes, anon, I'm sure that all aliens are going to have precisely the same biology and psychology as humans. Nudity taboos, underactuated branching end-effectors developed from feet, and baring one's teeth to show enjoyment are all absolutely necessary to technological development! I applaud your brilliant inference from a single data point; the way you have brilliantly cleared away all possible interesting stories on a raft of unquestionable speculation is truly a thing to behold.
>>28242001http://irl.cs.ucla.edu/papers/right-size.htmlMulti-cellular biology is the only way to have complex forms. Small animals can't possess the brain power to be intelligent, nor can they develop useful eyes. Elephants and whales are very smart, but even so haven't developed any significant technology. The reason why is in their physiology.Any technological species is going to have the exact same evolutionary history as we do. This isn't to say they'll look like us; self-modification and mechanization frees the body to evolve into anything, as long as it can press the 'on' button.
>>28242107i don't think you quite get the idea, these other species could come from a world without many of the local elements we have access to, they may come from a gas giant and have evolved from a Jellyfish/colony like creature instead of a single organism like humans.
>>28242107I'm not sure how "medium-size" and "must have an evolutionary history exactly similar to ours" follow from each other in any way.
>>28242107Whales haven't developed any significant technology because 1) they're underwater, and 2) they have no hands. Likewise, the only "hand" an elephant has is its trunk, which isn't useful for anything beyond "pick up a stick and poke things with it"
>>28242170That's a bit of an extreme example. How do the floating jellyfish establish the heavy industry needed to make a spaceship?A better example would be an aquatic species, as at least then they can have heavy industry and put together a technological society.
>>28242230>heavy industry>underwaterI don't think so, anon.It's basically impossible to develop anything like technology without access to fire.
>>28242170>i don't think you quite get the ideaI don't think you do.>these other species could come from a world without many of the local elements we have access toThen the world wouldn't produce life. We find the rudiments of Earth-chemistry everywhere in the universe. Life can only be made from a very small selection of elements, and they have to be abundant enough locally.>they may come from a gas giant and have evolved from a Jellyfish/colony like creature instead of a single organism like humansAnd so why would we expect them to accomplish more then our Jellyfish?>>28242197It's physics. The same forces which produce atoms force macroscopic life down certain narrow avenues. Read the essay I posted, it explains the limitations of non-human physiology.
>>28242256If you use current standards, no. If you try to think of alternative routes and design technology tailored to those limitations? Maybe.Technology isn't just what we make out of metal.
>>28242311the definitive point in our evolution where humans started becoming the 'best' race was when we developed hands, then came the brains, the came civilization.If some alien species gains prehensile appendages then their possibilities to evolve further become more and more prominent. I'm not saying that your wrong, just that were pitting hypothetical alien physiology against human physiology here, not trying to discern the nature of other planetary evolution.
>>28242652>just that were pitting hypothetical alien physiology against human physiology hereThe more advanced species will be superior.Why? Look up 'carbon nanotube muscles.' Humans are weaker, slowly, dumber, and inferior in every way to any species that's even a few decades ahead of us.Moreover, since all species probably develop carbon nanotubes, any technological species we meet will have the physical might of Superman.Also, just a piece of information; carbyne is even stronger then carbon nanotubes. So take the estimates you find in those articles and assume several orders of magnitude higher.
>>28242842Carbyne is also HILARIOUSLY unstable, and if two strands of carbyne touch and are even slightly jostled they will instantly decompose into hot black goo.
>>28242344That's the thing, our technology is based primarily on simple tools and metals. They don't really need the Wheel, it's easier to pick things up underwater than it is above it. Inclined planes would likely be inspired from biological sources (claws, etc.) due to rocks being mostly smooth. Levers require a material that is long, hard, and a purpose to use it for (a weapon, a tool to lift something, a better woodcutter's axe, etc), and most of that requires an inclined plane to become more useful. Metals are almost never found naturally underwater. The only thing that really leaves them is agriculture, so all they can do is plant food.
>>28242903>>28242344Granted, planting food is fantastic for population growth and a movement to a stable system, but without other tools you can't grow from there.
>>28242842>implying evolution creates perfect speciescome back after taking freshman bio
>>28242864Life is just a fire slowly burning through it's fuel. Your muscles break themselves down as a fundamental part of doing work.Such instability is exactly what you're looking for.
>>28242311The essay you posted only explains the limitations of different-sized physiology. Let's accept that, fine. (However, I believe that, say, elephants are easily as intelligent as our distant proto-human ancestors, and that given a decent manipulator and the proper selection pressures, they might well have become a technological species) In order to achieve both intelligence AND technology, then, the requirements are (if your article is correct) a rough size limitation, a good manipulator (which need not be hands - an octopus' tentacles or a branching elephant's trunk or even a particularly-dextrous tongue might serve), and the proper selection pressures.On Earth, it is clear that this combination occured only once, in the genus Homo. I do not see why it could not occur on some distant world to, say, a miniature elephant, or an unusually large sparrow, or an air-breathing octopus.
>>28242919until they're forced into forming the land due to space problems caused by the population boom, possibly melting icecaps to flood low lying areas to increase areas viable for Aquatic life.
>>28241148That explains why they all dropped out of college without passing calculus.
>>28242990I never implied any such thing. It's just a fact that if you construct a body out of something like carbon nanotubes, it'll be more resilient and powerful then a body constructed out of poly peptides and calcium carbonate.
>>28241705Star Trek: Enterprise puts the shoe on the other foot with that one, when the Vulcan characters keep asking why the humans focus on Vulcans' pointy ears over the really weird shit like dust-covering transparent eyelids (some Earth animals have those) and green blood.
>>28241861>magenta is an optical illusionu wot m8
>>28243121For every other real color, there's a wavelength of light that corresponds to it. There's red light, blue light, green light...But here's no wavelength of light that corresponds to "magenta" - a combination of red and blue. Color is actually a linear spectrum, not a color wheel; the "color wheel" is an artifact of the way our brain processes light. If we receive a mixture of two wavelengths - yellow and blue, say - the brain instead views it as a single color halfway between the two.But when we receive a mixture of blue or violet (all the way at the high end of the spectrum), and red (all the way at the low end), the color halfway between them is green - which is rather unhelpful. So instead the brain invents a color, magenta, and sticks it "between" violet and red, gluing the linear visual spectrum into a color wheel.
Empathy. We have the ability to deeply understand the experiences of others based on our own experiences.
>>28243204Huh. Maybe that's why red-green colorblindness exists - the brain doesn't always generate the same false "magenta" signal.
>>28243224Actually, it's usually because one of the receptors ("red" or "green") is broken.
>>28242997>The essay you posted only explains the limitations of different-sized physiology. Let's accept that, fineIt also explains that the reason the multi-cellular forms we see exist are in response to the same square-cube law. The proboscis of insects, for example, is their way of getting around being sucked up by surface tension. The lung was developed to get around surface area limitations.The point is, all form is predetermined. There are only so many feasible solutions to a given biological problem. The forms we see on Earth exist not simply because they work on Earth, but because physics prevents life from coming into existence in any other context. Life has the forms it does for the same reasons molecules do.>(However, I believe that, say, elephants are easily as intelligent as our distant proto-human ancestors, and that given a decent manipulator and the proper selection pressures, they might well have become a technological species)But then why haven't they? The human form is relatively young, yet nothing else has managed technology like we have. The non-existence of vast quantities of artificial radioactive isotopes in nature proves it.
>>28243326>In order to achieve both intelligence AND technology, then, the requirements are (if your article is correct) a rough size limitation, a good manipulator (which need not be hands - an octopus' tentacles or a branching elephant's trunk or even a particularly-dextrous tongue might serve), and the proper selection pressuresCountless species on Earth fulfill those criteria. Take a look at ants and bees. Still, they don't make rockets and land on the Moon.And moreover, you seem to have missed the point of the article. The size limitation is caused by the mass of the planet, and it's atmosphere's capacity to provide buoyancy. A low-gravity, high-atmospheric density world could host enormous single-celled organisms, and probably would since should things are less resources intensive then multi-cellular organism.Of course, a low-gravity, high-atmospheric density world isn't going to exist. Low gravity worlds don't collect dense atmospheres, and worlds with high density atmospheres tend to accumulate more and more gas until they become gas giants.And that's what I'm trying to get at; there's only one way to do life, and only a handful of forms it can take. We'll see the same forms repeated throughout the entire universe, and that includes human beings.
>>28243220An animal that can't predict the mental states of other animals and predict their actions and reactions accordingly isn't going to be very successful.
>>28243342>a low-gravity, high-atmospheric density world isn't going to existhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(moon)
>>28243342I'm not so sure. Titan's low gravity and has a thicker atmosphere than ours. I think the temperature and the solar wind have to play into this. If you find a way to make those not contribute to atmosphere loss (internal heating being more important to global temperature, a star with minimal solar wind or a strong magnetic field on the world) and you're going somewhere.
Acceptable temperature ranges could be a thing, if aliens tend to be cold-blooded.
>>28243342Actually, a low-gravity, high-atmospheric-density world COULD exist, (see also, Titan).To engineer this, one would need low temperatures (to minimize Jeans escape), an unusually high-molecular-weight atmosphere (Titan's is mostly hydrocarbon haze), minimal solar wind effect (Titan is shielded by its mother planet's magnetosphere), and/or high volcanism to replenish the high loss rate.Could a high-oxygen, high-atmosphere, low-gravity world exist? Maybe. I don't know. Venus manages to have a much denser atmosphere than Earth, despite having the same gravity, and if Venus had a magnetosphere its atmosphere would be wetter and denser still. If Venus was further out - enough to be habitably cool (which would reduce thermal escape even MORE) and have liquid-water oceans (in which case it would probably have a magnetosphere) , and had the 35% Oxygen that Earth had during the Carboniferous, I would definitely expect abnormally large, intelligent flyers.
>>28243342>Of course, a low-gravity, high-atmospheric density world isn't going to exist.Except for that one moon in our own solar system that has a small fraction of Earth's gravity but a 50% denser atmosphere (which just happens to be loaded with the combination of chemicals necessary for primitive life).
Our senses. Think about it for a moment, and you'll realize that your senses in fact allow us to visualize the world around us by interpreting various wavelengths and types of energy in the world around us. Light, sound, it's all energy.When the Kal Shareek came with their oscillating energy fields, they were puzzled beyond measure to find that in a few short months, humans had devised a means to counter their most advanced shielding technology. When their leader fell to our troops on the fields of battle, he asked only one word. "How?"We matched the color of our zappy guns to their shields.
>>28243403>>28243415Titan's atmospheric pressure is 146.7Kpa, only 40Kpa higher then Earth's. That difference isn't going to make things more buoyant. It also has no oxygen, meaning that for our purposes it isn't any better as sustaining larger or less complex organisms.For an oxygen nitrogen atmosphere to provide any form of buoyancy, it's going to have to be hundreds of times denser then Earth's.Venus is more comparable to what I was talking about then Titan.
>>28243545That's an interesting idea, I always wonder if even any two people interpret things as being the same color. Who says the red I see is the same as the red you see? It's impossible to tell because we'll always call the same thing "red".
Consider the fact that humans are specifically adapted for marching long distances and aiming ranged weapons.We would make terrifyingly efficient infantrymen.
>>28243533And then there's Venus, which has the same gravity as Earth but whose atmosphere is 54 times denser - despite the lack of magnetosphere and the resulting gigayears of having its atmosphere stripped, and despite the high temperatures and the resulting gigayears of thermal escape, and despite the fact that Venus's atmosphere actually has a lower molecular weight than Earth's.In fact, if Venus was further out, its atmosphere would be far, far denser than it already is.The fact that Venus' atmosphere manages to be so much thicker than the Earth's, despite all these factors, shows rather conclusively that Earth's thin atmosphere is not a gravitational and thermal inevitability. I would not rule out worlds whose gravity was lower and yet whose atmosphere was thicker than Earth's.And especially if the atmosphere was (as occured on Earth during the Carboniferous) 35% oxygen, I would say that incredibly massive flyers were almost certain to arise.
>>28243572*This* is one that you can look up easily, however. It's really cool!
>>28243572I often think about this too. Color is, if I remember my high school science class correctly, a result of the wavelength of light. Lower wavelengths are red, and higher are more towards blue, I think.But as for the color itself, it could be that different brains see colors in different ways. I certainly don't know of anything saying that's not how it could be.Another thing I think humans could have going for them is the fact that what we cannot do, we make up for with machinery. We can't naturally spit bullets for a mile, so we build a gun that shoots for two. We aren't naturally resiliant, so we devise manmade armor to wear into battle.Other races that make it to space might well use crystaline structures moved by innate energy manipulation abilities, or have a natural biological adaptation to space.But humans... When there's a place they need to go, or someting they need to do that they can't? They build.The other races of the galaxy look at a black hole and weep, for they cannot stop it.Humans look at it approaching, and ask "how can we shoot it better?"
>>28243561>It also has no oxygenFree O2 is extremely rare in the absence of lifeforms; most of it reacts with a dozen other elements in the air. Even Earth didn't have much oxygen until life appeared.
>>28243514>Actually, a low-gravity, high-atmospheric-density world COULD exist, (see also, Titan)Titan's atmosphere isn't denser enough to make a difference.>Could a high-oxygen, high-atmosphere, low-gravity world exist? Maybe. I don't knowAstrophysics suggests that such planets can't. We've never found one.>Venus manages to have a much denser atmosphere than Earth, despite having the same gravity, and if Venus had a magnetosphere its atmosphere would be wetter and denser still. If Venus was further out - enough to be habitably cool (which would reduce thermal escape even MORE) and have liquid-water oceans (in which case it would probably have a magnetosphere) , and had the 35% Oxygen that Earth had during the Carboniferous, I would definitely expect abnormally large, intelligent flyersThere's probably some aspect of planetary evolution we don't understand yet that explains why Venus has a denser atmosphere. I've heard that Earth's atmosphere was denser in the past as an explanation for why the dinosaurs were so heavy that they'd break their own legs just by standing. Even more absurd are the flying dinosaurs as large as aircraft that somehow managed to ignore physics.
>humans lack empathy for other species so we're all merciless killersHumans are a bunch of fucking softies, shit if I even heard somewhere that we're less likely to be annoyed by baby animals than baby humans.
>>28243744Actually, Earth's atmospheric density has remained basically constant over the last billion-ish years. However, back then, the oxygen content of Earth was substantially higher, which is what allowed for large flyers. Flying takes energy, and if there's more oxygen available, there's more metabolic energy available.Dinosaurs could walk just fine on modern Earth, but they would be gasping for air.
>>28243561Remember, Earth also had no oxygen until photosynthetic life arose. We're postulating a Titan with life here.(That said, a Titan-with-oxygen would also instantly catch on fire, and become a titan-without-oxygen.)
>>28243699>The other races of the galaxy look at a black hole and weep, for they cannot stop it.>Humans look at it approaching, and ask "how can we shoot it better?"Delving too deep into HFY. This will not be a differentiating factor.Every single sapient life-form we encounter, if any exist at all, will be tool-using, creative, and ruthlessly resourceful.
>>28240932>Religious, they keep coming at you because they're chanting religious hymns and they think their god will protect them (think Sisters of Battle shield of faith 6++ and you won't be far off.Best advantage by far. DEUS VULT.
Everyone always talks about things that a human would have in battle, the big, powerful things that would set them above others physically.But you know what? I was stationed with a human once. He was about what you'd expect from them. Arrogant, self-centered, egotistical to a fault. Always thinking in his own terms, and never in those of our kind.Then, one day, my protolathe slipped, and cut deep into my arm. I was panicking, and the pain was blinding. But the human? He ran over with more concern than he'd ever shown in his work, ripped his uniform apart, and used the cloth to help staunch the flow of blood, completely unconcerned for the fact that it stung and burned at his flesh. The whole time we were waiting for the medical team, he told me I was going to be okay. That it was alright.I asked him later why he was so concerned for my safety, and you know what he said? That human said "Of course I was worried. It doesn't matter if we're from different places. If somebody's hurt, you help them out, right?"What a fascinating people they are. For all their faults, and for all their intimidating features, they have a nobility that runs deeper than the divide between cultures. It has been roughly three moon cycles since that accident. I'm not sure I entirely understand the scope of what that human calls "friendship", but I consider myself honored to fall under it.
I've had a think about this before and my past conclusions were based upon comparing humans to other intelligent animals on Earth.Easy examples are cetaceans and elephants.The obvious thing to notice is that humans are smaller than these animals. It's not only easier for large animals to have large brains it's also required for them to manage their body. But a large brain doesn't directly mean high intelligence.Large body size correlates with, but doesn't cause, high intelligence.It could be an evolutionary path that a large animal evolves a large brain to better coordinate itself, then evolves to use this already large brain to focus less on coordination and more on cognition.It's also logical that a large, resource intensive animal would evolve a smarter brain (which would be relatively less of a resource investment than a small animal evolving a larger brain) to keep itself out of trouble.So perhaps humans are very small compared to intelligent aliens. This has heaps of implications.>>28243003How would they melt ice caps when they can't make fire, metal, water and heat proof containers or any other useful tool?
>>28240801We actually have a much faster healing rate than most other terrestrial animals. And so completely, too - If a horse breaks its leg, even the rare-as-fuck few that do somehow recover will NEVER race again. Meanwhile, there's humans that get partially-crushed bones and still recover to sprinting capacity, and they GAIN a motherfucking weather detector.
>>28243930Dunno why, but the need fire to melt ice caps part made me imagine someone going to the poles and making a huge fucking campfire to melt it.
>>28240887We're also pretty fucking rich in the "Poisonous murderrapeengines everywhere" department.
>>28241043I imagine they go "We should put that out, that's dangerous" as opposed to humans, who like to go "That looks dangerous. I'm going to like, put it ALL OVER that jewish guys shit."
>>28244083What if the one thing that sets humans apart from other aliens is the presence of Jews?>Alien1: I think our media is being controlled by a particular ethnic group.>Alien2: Yes, but which one would do such a thing?>Alien1: Huh, I guess you're right.>Human1: I think our media is being controlled by a particular ethnic group.>Human2: Pogrom soon, that'll fix them Jews up real good.What if the one thing that sets humans apart from other aliens is that one of our religions is true?>Yeah and so the romans crucified this guy, which is a form of execution, but then a few days later he rose from the dead. And that's why some humans think this Jesus guy is the son of god.>Wait, Jesus? 2000 quatrons ago a bizarre creature calling itself Jesus landed on our home planet and claimed to be the son of god!
Aliens would probably be alot like us but slightly different in a couple of areas. Mostly in ways humans are different from other species we know of and each other. The question is the order of magnitude that these differences exist. How many fingers do you need, how many limbs, how many senses, what ways can a body perform functions in more than one way, leverage vs power for example. What resources would they have access to compared to us. But again we'd mostly be very similar.
>>28243787>Actually, Earth's atmospheric density has remained basically constant over the last billion-ish yearsCheck this out: http://www.dinosaurtheory.com/thick_atmosphere.html>However, back then, the oxygen content of Earth was substantially higher, which is what allowed for large flyers. Flying takes energy, and if there's more oxygen available, there's more metabolic energy availablePeople have done the math, and certain animals like Quetzalcoatlus couldn't have possibly flown, even assuming the emaciated weights paleontologists try to give them. The Kori Bustard, the heaviest living bird, is only 41lbs at maximum.>Dinosaurs could walk just fine on modern Earth, but they would be gasping for airWhen large dinosaurs were first found, they were thought to be completely aquatic animals because they were so large. Elephants today can't cross ditches a few feet deep. Large dinosaurs would have been so heavy, again even with the emaciated weights given to them, that their legs would have broken underneath them.This is based on the square-cube law. It isn't something that can be brushed aside.
>>28241425What is that picture? I look so much like 78, it's unnerving me.
>>28244243It's a picture mapping human skin tones to the Pantone color schema.
>>28244184>implying Jews aren't alien refugees
>>28244202Mm-hm. Unfortunately, I am unable to meaningfully continue this discussion, as the "thick atmosphere theory" is mentally filed under "Crackpot Theories" between the aquatic-ape theory and the theories of Immanuel Velikovsky. I must therefore bow out of this discussion, as I am unable to meaningfully continue without getting angry.
Rolled 3>>28240801The idea is that we stop bleeding extremely fast, and scab over quickly. Injuries that would bleed lightly on some animals, such as dogs, can bleed for hours. Humans? It stops bleeding in minutes, faster if pressure is applied.>removing limbsIt means immediately incapacitating. Animals with broken legs can go into shock almost instantly if they didn't expect it, and usually die from it. Humans can literally have a limb chopped off in a fight, pick up the arm or leg, and beat the living shit out of whoever decided that they should be dead with it.
Extreme temperature tolerance. As a warm blooded species, it's surprising we can live nearly anywhere in the world.Our diet and tasting capabilities. We can eat almost anything, and we have the best range of taste around.The gravity on earth. That could be a thing.Our adaptability. All humans are able to adapt to their enviroment, and literally transform itself. We can become fighters, workers or anything else.Ambition.
>>28244202Huh, looks interesti->We insert into our equation 667 kg / m3 for the density, 294 K (21 degrees Celsius) for the average Mesozoic global temperature, and 43.0 grams per mol for the molecular weight of the atmosphere (The reason 43 g/mol is used instead of the air’s present molecular weight of 29 g/ mol will become clear later). This shows that 150 million years ago the Earth’s atmospheric pressure near the surface was about 370 atmospheres.>about 370 atmospheres>370 fucking atmospheresYep, it's a crank.(PROTIP, to those observing - Venus's atmosphere, even at the deepest depths, is a "mere" 92 atmospheres. At those pressures, CO2 becomes a liquid, and the whole of the Earth is under pressures found at the bottom of the ocean. The effects on geological strata would be, to say the least, noticeable.)
>>28244622There's also the fact that, if Earth's atmosphere was 12 fucking times thicker than Venus', the resulting greenhouse effect would put Venus to shame. Forget "dinosaurs" - we're talking molten-lava temperatures. Again, to claim that the effects of such a thing are so incidental that the only effect we haven't been able to "explain away" is the anatomy of dinosaurs is beyond ludicrous, and verging on the level of bat-shittery as claiming the Reptilians caused 9/11 to distract people from realizing that the Holocaust was actually targeting the Greys.
Adrenalin is something that can freak other sentient life out also.
>>28240670So, has tumblr finally discovered HFY?
>>28240706oh for christs sake really. We also have the meaning of life 42
>>28244816If they have, it's all our recycled materials.These are old HFY posts we made that were almost too stupid for words.
>>28243699>>28243572I've often wondered about this, as well. Whether my red is the same as your red.I tend to conclude that, yes, it probably is. This because, by and large, most humans consider the same colour combinations and palettes beautiful.
>>28243752My tolerance for the shit my cat does is a thousand times greater than my tolerance for what my fellow man does.