I have a player who is starting to become a bit of a problem. Don't get me wrong: he's a nice and friendly guy, knows the rules very well, is a smart player who with a keen tactical sense, is good at figuring out puzzles, and he's a damn good role player who stays in-character during the session and never meta games. Surprisingly, it's that last part that's causing all the issues. He is otherwise one of the best players I've ever had and I don't want him to quit my game.The way his role playing is causing a problem is because he's had several characters just up and quit the party. So I've allowed him to re-roll a new character each time. The first character was an archetypical lawful good paladin, who inevitably had a problem with the chaotic neutral rogue going around stealing shit from NPCs. The paladin tried to convince him to stop, the rogue told him he would do as he pleased, and when the paladin couldn't convince the rest of the PCs in convincing the rogue to stop his antics, he said he couldn't bear to travel a thief and his accomplices, and so just left the group.His next character was a chaotic good Druid who got along well with the party for a while, but then the party set fire to a forest as a solution to stop an orcish encroachment on civilized territories. The Druid said he would have to stay to help heal the land he was party to destroying through his inability to convince the party to do otherwise.(Continued next post and pic not related)
>>27658903His next character was a chaotic neutral barbarian who wasn't very bright but was as funny as hell. One night, after he bashed a demon's head in, he was awarded with a magical ring the demon was wearing. The group rogue decided to try and take advantage of the barbarian's stupidity by stealing the ring from him as he slept. Then he wore it. The barbarian might have been dumb but not that dumb, so he saw the ring and demanded it back. The rogue lied and said it was a different ring. The barbarian asked the rest of the party for permission to beat the rogue down until he got his ring back. When he was denied, he left the group reasoning that there was no point to adventuring with them if all his stuff was just going to be stolen.His next character was a lawful neutral cleric. The party fighter insulted the cleric's god one session because the cleric had run out of healing spells. The cleric demanded an apology and the fighter refused. The next time the party made it to a town, the cleric found a temple that worshipped his god. The cleric asked the fighter for another apology, which was again refused. The cleric left the party to join the temple, telling us he couldn't help people who didn't respect him or his religion and merely used him as a heal bot (he didn't actually say heal bot but you get the idea).Continued...
>>27658970He's now on his 5th character and some of the other players are beginning to grumble that it isn't fair he gets to "respec" whenever he pleases. I brought this up at the table and he apologized to us, but then defended his actions saying it was the most logical reaction his characters would have to traveling in what they thought were "bad company". I'm conflicted about this because I can agree with where he's coming from (I recently just quit a job I began to hate because of the people who worked there). He's also a good role player: whenever a character left it wasn't like he just said "I quit" and tore up the character sheet, it only happened after an intense scene of role playing and character dialogue.I need your help /tg/. How do I convince this guy to stick with a character without inhibiting anybody else's roleplay, but make sure he doesn't get discouraged and stop showing up to sessions?
>>27658903To be honest it sounds like the problem is the rogue.
>>27658970it just sounds like the rest of the group are fuckfaces and he's actually following his character's motivations.
>chaotic "neutral" thief stealing from NPCs and party members for shits and gigglesIt does indeed sound like you have a problem player. Maybe multiple, considering that everyone else tolerates him except the paladin player.
Solution: get rid of the rogue player.
>the guy actually roleplaying is the problem>not the dick ass thief or the metagamers who actually give a fuck about "respeccing"Come on now OP.
Players should create character concepts as a group, to avoid situations like a paladin hanging out with cutthroats and thieves.I'm tempted to call the other players jerks, because that's not the type of groups I enjoy playing with. But on reflection, the odd guy out should have realized what sort of characters these are a long time ago, and either made a character that fit in with murderhobos or left the group.
Sounds like you've got a roleplayer in a murderhobo group. It's less of a problem player, and more of the fact that the group walks over whatever he might want.Have a talk with him, see if he can't play a character who might fit in better with the group - a dickass warlock might be good.Bonus points if he betrays the rest of the group and gets them all killed, because frankly the rest of them sound like dicks and should also stop trying to be a dick to the guy.
It seems like the players characters doesn't respect his characters which leads his characters to a point of no return roleplaying wise. The players doesn't seem very co-operative at all, like the thief going full kender and the fighter refusing to back down.
>>27658999This. Sounds like your problem player is the rogue.
>>27659081He's tried. Repeatedly.And at least two times, the same player's dick moves have been responsible for forcing the player to reroll.The other alternative being that the player in question takes his barbarian and rapes the fuck out of the party.
You and your good roleplayer should find a new group. That's my solution
>>27658903Take that player, run away from the rest of the group as far as you can.
>>27658992I would agree to qualify your player as a "problem" if his actions weren't so perfectly justified each time.He must have forced himself to abandon very good characters only for RP reasons, and I doubt he has done it to "respec". -->*As long as his reasons are reasonable* <--, keep allowing him to have his characters leave the party.
>>27659150Sounds like the rogue and the fighter have it out for him, and so he keeps getting outnumbered because he's threatening their murderhobo fun. How many players are in the group?
Let him fight his way out the next time he asks to reroll.Also get rid of the rogue, he sounds like a dick. But really, fighting in the party is the best way to resolve it, or just find something that makes him stick. Like a vision from his god, or a sacred relic. Hell, have his kid be stolen, just don't let the character walk off, let him go solo if need be, but never let the character just wander off.
Yeah, I'd love to have a PC like him. He sounds like an excellent player, surrounded by murderhobos and asshats. Get him to make a character with little moral stipulations or something - I like the 'dickass warlock' idea. In my group, if the Paladin says "Don't raid that temple", they don't raid that temple. Then if the Druid says "Don't burn the forest", they don't burn the forest. And when the rogue says "I didn't steal this ring from you!" He gets his face beaten in until he learns teamwork.If no one in your party respects this guys character motivations, then this guy isn't the problem. Everyone else is. You should see if you can get two groups going - one for him and some others, who actually care about roleplaying and such, and the other group for murderhobos.
It might be for the best if his next character had a somewhat more adaptable ethical code. You know, one which doesn't see anything wrong with accidentally dropping some deathcap mushrooms into someone's dinner.
>>27659081Well, it sounds like he started creating neutral characters to avoid moral conflicts with the rest of the party, but then they just started treating his new characters like shit, so what's he supposed to do? Either the rest of the party acts this way with every member of the group (in which case, everyone should have killed each other a long time ago) or the party is only targeting his characters. Either way, he's not the problem ehre.
>>27659180Four, including him
>>27659180>How many players are in the group?Good question. I think we might witness rare phenomenon called "all the characters driven away from group by group's dickheadness falls, everyone dies".
>>27659226Kill the other three and find better players. I don't mean the characters.
>>27658903>>27658992>>27658970So to summarize, he's the best thing that's ever happened to your group, and you want to cramp his style because the rest of the group is being unreasonable. Jesus. Since when are actions like his considered >respec whenever he pleasesAs if they couldn't do the same. All I can pretty much do is lay the issue out in front of your group as you've done here, and talk it out. Either he gets why he should put an effort into crafting a character with lasting power in the group dynamic, or they get that him getting to reroll in not a big fucking deal. If both sides stand firm? Better break now than later.
>>27658903>player bending over backwards to avoid intra party conflict>is a problem characterOP... OP plz
Tell the other players to quite being idiots; it's obvious that he's not "respecing" whenever he pleases, but having his characters driven out by unacceptable behaviour to them.Now, your good player? Sit down with him and tell him he now KNOWS what assholes his fellow players' characters are. Ask him to make a character fine with it, or a character fine with murdering the dick-ass Rogue, *assuming these are in-character problems, and not players being awful to other players*.
>>27659226Yeah, that's the problem. He's getting dicked over by the fighter-rogue combo, isn't he? What's the last fellow like? I suggest when he next rerolls, he makes someone with pre-existing ties to the group - perhaps a friend of the third member, or so on, who will be less likely to leave, and will in character be backed up by the third guy.Unless they all hate him, in which case the other members are all dicks and you can decide in dropping the three and possibly having no games or dropping the one and having shit murderhobo games with no RP.
>mfw this guy roles a morally ambiguous char>mfw when he out murderhobos the murderhobos>mfw they still mad
>>27658903Your player did nothing wrong and i salute him for his patience. If you wanna keep the group as it is, most sensible solution for me seems what >>27659101 and >>27659081 said. Sit with him and make an evil character that would be fun to play for him and will get along with the group. If he´s not gonna get along with them (which is inevitable, sooner or later), evil character does not have to leave the party, instead can fuck with them back and have them taste some of their own medicine. Roleplay and shenaniganz ensue. If he does it right, maybe rest of the group will see their faults (but maybe am too optimistic here.
>>27658999thishonestly, that rogue sounds not fun at all to play with - like he enjoys fucking with the 5th character guy. Is mr.revolving-door-of-characters the FNG in your otherwise grizzled group? Perhaps the two players have beef. Furthermore - is the rogue a close friend of yours? because it sounds like you don't have a problem with his antics at all...
ITT: OP thought that his good player was the problem when it really was everyone else in the party that was the problem
>>27658903Yup, sounds like the rogue and fighter are assholes. Give 'em the boot or tell them to shape up, because the barb/pally/cleric/druid is just trying to find a way to work with the group and keeps getting fucked with.
>>27659289Technically, if everyone else hates him for being better or for roleplaying, he's still the That Guy of his group.
>>27659282>lurk morethe rogue isn't the only one in on it. in fact, the only one I haven't heard about is this enigmatic 4th character who the rogue and fighter don't pick on AFAIK
>>27659334That not what That Guy means. Not even close.
>>27659334That's not how being That Guy works.Everyone but re-roll guy is That Guy here.
>>27659289>everyone elsenot necissarily everyone.The rogue is the main dickwad. Can't really blame the rest of the party for backing up the "Devil They Know", though.
>>27659349well then, tell us. what does That Guy mean?
>>27659274>What's the last fellow likeTrue neutral elf Mage. She doesn't go out of her way to commit evil acts on any NPCs and generally gets along with everybody - NPCs and players alike. But on the other hand, when the other players (admittedly talking about the rogue and fighter here) start causing trouble, she tolerates it but doesn't join in. And she avoided all the inter-party conflict that went on with my best role player and the other two players
>>27659377It's what the rogue is doing.
>>27659377Generally? He's the shitbag that has to shit on everyone else's day just because his life is shit.
>>27659389So you have two problem players. Kick them out and find some other people to play with.
Explain to the other players that if they are tired of his "Respecs", they should stop pushing him into it each time. Particularly the rogue. If you have a Druid you obviously shouldn't fuck with nature around him. If you have a Cleric you shouldn't shit talk his god, or at least apologize when you do. The Rogue stealing from his Barbarian was a huge dick move. You can't steal someone's shit and expect them to stick around. He may be a Rogue, but he needs to know stealing from people he is going to spend an extended amount of time around is a dumb fucking move. If you're going to roleplay a thief at least roleplay a smart thief. I know it may be easier to try and convince him to stop backing out of his characters but that's just trying to throw a blanket over the real problem.
>>27659377He's the guy who shits up the game, regardless of how the rest of the group sees it.In this case it's the rogue.
you have 2 options, OP1. confront your rogue about this - because THAT is the problem player right there. >inb4 fighter - see >>276593582. turn in your DM card. let someone else DM for a while, because it seems you don't even have control over your own game.
Unsure if troll thread...OP.The 'problem player' is role playing well and has tried a lot of things to avoid this stupidity. Maybe that last one was him being over-sensitive, but not by much. He likes playing principled characters and the party is kind of a bag of dicks. I suspect the best course of action would have been to let the barbarian fucking murder the rogue.>Lalala, being lawful good, doin' the paladin thing, being justice incarnate, and...oh, well I could tone it down...>Lalala, nature and freedom and the open road, I'm unflappable and YOU DID WHAT? I, uh, I guess I'll tone it down some more...>Lalala, I do what I want, self-determination, you'd have to fucking work to get under my skin, aaaaaaaaaand are you fucking kidding me. I guess I'll just tone it down some more, huh?>La...lala...just a cleric doin' my thing, generally nothing too crazy, loving my god and whatever, and COME ON.I'm frankly astounded he hasn't left.
>>27659282>Is mr.revolving-door-of-characters the FNG in your otherwise grizzled group?In terms of playing D&D, no. In fact he's and older guy with gray hair IRL and so I think he's played it longer than any of us. But in terms of how long we've been gaming with each other as a group, yes. He's the newest by far.
>>27659445In that case let the intraparty drama begin.
>>27659432honestly, that player needs to. I would if I were him.
>>27659282>is the rogue a close friend of yours?A friend, yes, but to be honest I wouldn't say a close friend, because the only time we meet up is to game.
>>27659461Could be a very small pool of available games in his area. Speaking from experience, you learn to put up with some pretty terrible folk for the sake of rolling the bones.
>>27659445boot. the. rogue.that's your only answer, OPwhat, is he your boyfriend or something?
I dont think OP realizes that it is the rogue who is the problem after all this bitching about it still. Not sarcasm.
>>27659490Booting him out of the blue is kind of excessive.Sit down, talk to the rest of your group, and explain how this guy has been doing everything he possibly can to work with them, and they need to stop fucking up their end of the deal. A party is a social compact, motherfucker.
There's no edition of D&D where druids can be chaotic good.Confirmed for troll thread.
>>27659521DM fiat trumps all splatbooks.
>>27659521>Da rulebook is da law!
>>27658903yea the guy's probably trying to prove a point and being a little passive aggressivemaybe talk to the guy and ask why he keeps quitting and maybe request that he try to make a character who would be more understanding/tolerant, but also listen to his problems with the rest of the party and promise to discuss with them how they can change to make it better for the other guy etc...whenever i dm i tell everyone upfront with the 'character creation guide/rules for this campaign' or whatever that getting along overall is pretty much a requirement. It might be boring but it's worth sparing the headache... 'you all must want to achieve this goal' 'you must be able to work in groups' etc
>>27659534>I am da law!
stealing is a form of Pvp, he should have just axed him politely for his ring back.
>>27659565I think the guy's only problem is that he's not willing to go against the party. The barbarian should've beaten the rogue to pulp and cut off his right hand, not just walked away.
>>27659589http://oglaf com/read it, read it all
>>27659520yeah, you're right. you're absolutely spot on, but you don't see the OP doin' that, do ya?why not?If the situation weren't beyond the sit-and-talk phase, don't you think OP would be doing that? Perhaps OP did that, and that's why grognard is even sticking around for a 5th beating.Or perhaps OP is too scared of hurting the rogue player's feelings to even do what is expected of a DM.
>>27659589Where have you been?It's Oglaf
>>27659589New here, huh?http://oglaf.com/Have fun.
>>27659599so maybe op can tell him that he's allowed to pvp when necessary, and those chucklefucks can get the consequences they deservealso the dm could start throwing consequences at them overall... steal something, guard saw. make him roll and just be more strict than you have been. it sounds like op is going easy on the fuckups and the people who want a more serious game are suffering>>27659617thanks, i saw one last night and wondered but didn't ask. I read /tg/ now and then but not too consistently in the last few years. i'm just here looking for a bones threadthanks >>27659613 as well
>>27659599The barbarian should have murdered the rogue for stealing his shit AND lying to him about it
>>27659521He asked if he could be chaotic good because it made the most sense when he explained it in his character background, and so I let him.
>>27659150>He's tried. Repeatedly.>And at least two times, the same player's dick moves have been responsible for forcing the player to reroll.Jesus man, he's not the problem player. All of the other guys are.
>>27659445Do you agree with /tg/'s diagnosis? Are you going to take action on this, and if so, what?Your silence apart from to add details makes me think this is a troll thread and you're just watching /tg/ get mad about it.
>>27659413>He's the guy who shits up the game, regardless of how the rest of the group sees it.So our re-roller is the guy shitting up the game. Because everyone is losing out on their fun because this guy can't handle the group's dickishness.
Playing a Paladin or a Druid can be hard if your party goes contrary, but the thing with the barbarian cannot be blamed on him at all. Playing a Dick-Ass thief is fine so long as you don't steal from party members, that NEVER goes well. The thief was being ridiculous.
>>27659664Rogue's the most, fighter second, and the elf chick for seeing all this shit and not reacting in any way
The rogue and fighter sound like dicks and seem to be giving this guy a hard time (sensing it's a personal issue instead of an in-game one), but it seems that he's also partly to blame.Paladin>alright, it's hard for pallies to mesh with groups due to their holier-than-thou nature. I wouldn't roll one up personally for that reason, but whatever.Druid>although the party burned down the forest (dick move on their part), I think the druid could've stayed in the party for the sake of things running smoothly. I don't blame him for leaving though.Barbarian>He could've stayed with the party. He should've just fought the rogue mano a mano regardless of what the party said.Cleric>He could've stayed with the party. Although he has some justification to leave the party, rolling up a new character because of a blasphemous insult seems like the equivalent of "screw you guys, I'm going home". If I were you, OP, I'd talk to the fighter and the rogue players personally to see if there is any beef. Having this dude reroll characters all the time will only cause more tension with the rest of your players. I'd encourage the guy to have his next character more in line morally with the others.
>>27659684They haven't seemed to have lost out on anything. Not to mention they're the ones who've pushed every character he's made out of the party. This is like repeatedly tripping someone and complaining that everybody has to wait because he keeps falling down.
I say your "problem" player's next character should steal something from the fighter and leave it in the rogue's possession.
>>27659744Let's put it this way; a nigger in a KKK rally would be viewed as THAT GUY, even if the KKK are racist dickholes and the black guy is an upstanding citizen who just took a wrong turning driving across state in the dark.
You need to get rid of everyone in your group besides the guy who is actually roleplaying his characters.
>>27659432>>27659461>>27659472As fun as gaming is, there isn't any point in it if you're playing with dickbags.If someone in the group has it out for you and is treating you like shit, you don't put up with it for the sake of the group. You keep your fucking integrity and leave.You keep searching until you find people you belong with. Then when you've finally found people and players that aren't jackasses, you'll feel much better.If someone 'acts' nice but is totally fine with other people treating you like shit, don't consider them friends either.
OP, here is what you do. Put the party in a dungeon and pit them against a mob/boss/whatever with TONS of damaging affects and bring that party down to the wire. Once they start to complain, trust me, they will start to complain, just say, "Well gee, it sure is a shame we don't have a CLERIC to help heal all these wounds. What a shame." While slowly turning to whoever the dickheaded warrior is.
Troll thread. OP isn't saying shit about the majority advice
>>27659669>Do you agree with /tg/'s diagnosis? Yes, and to be honest with you that's why I'm being so quiet us because I'm now embarassed that I wasn't looking at it the right way when I typed up the OP>Are you going to take action on this, and if so, what?Next session I'll bring all this up to all the players with a focus on how the rogue and fighter can integrate better with the other player's characters.>Your silence apart from to add details makes me think this is a troll thread and you're just watching /tg/ get mad about it.It's not a troll, I'm just ashamed I didn't think of what's been said before I posted. That, plus I'm typing on a smartphone at work, admittedly
>>27658992>I need your help /tg/. How do I convince this guy to stick with a character without inhibiting anybody else's roleplay, but make sure he doesn't get discouraged and stop showing up to sessions?Veto all hostile actions against party members. Burn down the Cleric's church? Vetoed. Steal an item from a party member? Vetoed.I normally discourage this but you have to put your foot down. He's playing his character, but the others are actively disruptive.
>>27659913>That, plus I'm typing on a smartphone at work, admittedlyI know that feel.for my 7:30 hour workday, I have had a grand total of 90 minutes chargeable work.Thank fuck for colleagues who don't mind being regaled with offensive jokes.
>>27659913Just encourage him to make a character who will be motivated to retaliate against pranking efforts and harassment rather than quitting the group. If everybody continues to gang up on him then, it's time for an OOC talk with your other players.
>>27659936I never really veto it, I just do what >>27659632suggests, give them the consequences of their actions.The more they ignore them, the more extreme and silly it gets (unless they have a good reason to, as opposed to sorandumb/edgy)First it's just a guard who spots them.Then their description gets passed around.Then there's a manhunt.Then the notorious bounty hunter Sir Randal the Savage, and his gang of ninja trapeze artist midgets, hunt the offending character down.By that time, they've usually got the fucking point.
>>27660004Ok, here's what you do.SIT DOWN ALL YOUR GROUP TOGETHER AND WORK OUT A CHARACTER WHO WON'T THROW A SHITFIT AND LEAVE, and also be A CHARACTER WHO THE REST OF THE GROUP WON'T TREAT LIKE SHIT.See if you can't get that done. Work TOGETHER.
>>27660033I'm not OP, just someone giving their own advice.What I posted is usually the sort of thing you do after you've already had a talk with a problem player.People can do this sort of thing unconsciously, no matter how many times you remind them.That, or they give lip service to the guy who's badgering them and do it anyway, but it's not extreme enough to boot them.For those situations, simply showing taking the PC safety wheels off is fine.They can't really bitch about you targeting them, because;A) you already told them to cut their shitB) The consequences came as a direct result of their actions.
>>27658970>chaotic neutral barbarian asked the rest of the party for permission to beat the rogueVery patient player you have. If I played that barbarian, I'd kill the rogue already.
What if the rogue and fighter say it's the reroller's fault for not making a character who can work well with them?
>>27660208the thing is it's literally four against one.While I have no doubt that the barbarian would be able to rip the rogue a new one, it's disruptive to a player whos already proven that they're an asshat, and the last thing the party needs to give that player a grudge.
>>27660224Just point out that he's made four already and every single time they've left as a result of their shenannagins.
>>27660224Point out the fact that he's already made a character who should be able to work with them fine. The barbarian should have been able to fit into the party, but the Rogue intentionally fucked him over. The only way he could make a character that would work well with them would be someone with no backbone who's completely fine with other members of the party intentionally fucking him over, and I'd say that's a bit unreasonable to ask
>>27660339I wonder if OP would consent for the new guy to have a cursed item that the rogue would fine irresistable.
>>27660369Preferably this: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Necklace_of_Strangulation
Problem group, awesome player.I wish I could do what he did, but everyone would just whine. Right now I'm the only one with a conscience in a group of murderhobos and get shit every time I'm not metagaming, trying to maximize loot gain or try to come up with solutions that doesn't involve just killing everyone in our way.
>>27660415Something less fatal, nearly as permanent, and more humiliating would be better.
>>27660454Nah, it's great.>This necklace [gem-encrusted expensive necklace] is all I have to remember my sister by. It's powerful magic, and I will use it to fine my sister's killer. And I will see them dead with its powers.>rogue steals necklace, puts it on>strangled, dead>Why did you do that?! It was what was used to kill my sister! I would have used it to divine who used it last, but now- now it's ruined!
>>27660524tears in my eyes over how perfect that is.
>>27658903>>27658970>>27658992Tell your group to get together and hash out a character who has good reason to stay with the party.Not to mention that the rest of your players are showing pretty poor form, by the sounds of it. He had no reason to apologise.
>>27658999Trips speak the truth. I would have asked everyone OOC if it was alright if I beat the Rogue's player's ass, instead of asking if my Barbarian could beat down the Rogue.What's the point in stealing from your party members? The barbarian should have made the argument that the Rogue would kill them all in their sleeps should the BBEG offer him a shiny enough object.
>>27658992>>27658970>>27658903He's playing properly, better than the rest of the party it seems. I for one have no problem with constantly switching characters and his had legitimate reasons to abandon ship.The barbarian though should've just beat the rogue senseless without asking for approval. When the fuck has chaotic neutral ever asked for permission?
>>27660805>When the fuck has chaotic neutral ever asked for permission?Precisely what I was thinking. A CN barbarian asking permission is a joke unto itself. Not to mention the only thing close to not a justified role playing tactic so far displayed by the "problem."It's like that old joke>where does a bear sleep?>wherever the fuck it wants to.
>>27660805>>27660999Maybe it was an attempt to not sink to the Rogue's level and further disrupt the entire party?
>>27658903>>27658970>>27658992I see what you did there. You've heard /tg/'s assertion that That Guy is just someone who doesn't fit in with the rest of the group, and not any set of specific behaviors. So you crafted a scenario where a good player is being trolled by a group of Those Guys, to see if they'll stick to their guns. Result: /tg/ unanimously supports the theoretical "That Guy" that doesn't fit in with the murderhobo group. Nice experiment, OP. Great success.
>>27661062Well that would be meta and not proper roleplaying
>>27661156It's also the less disruptive and damaging option to the group, a courtesy they didn't deserve.
>>27661156That depends on his much character interaction had occurred before that point, and if the rogue had established himself as being far more dickish and less reasonable than the rest of the party.
>>27661100That Guy isn't just someone who doesn't fit with the group, they're someone who actively makes the game worst for the rest of the players.The only one getting dicked over in OP's scenario, real or false, is the guy standing out. If he's effecting the rest of the party negatively, it's minimal, unintentional, and passively at best.A waste of trip dubs if you ask me.