sup /tg/? I have a quick question; Is there any reason a Worm that Walks can not become a Lich, and in a sense give a sorcerer eternal life after it has already died once?
No reason at all. The worm that walks template is added to evil spellcasters, with no condition that the creature be alive and not undead.What's really bizzare is that a lich can later become a worm that walks. So it's a skeleton comprised of worms.Becoming a worm that walks also makes an undead creature alive again. A ghost that becomes a worm that walks will be an incorporeal spectre comprised of living worms.That means the formerly undead creature can become an undead again. That skeleton-made-of-worms? It can become a ghost. Or a vampire. Or whatever else you can dream up.
>>26034270liches only become skeletal if they abuse and neglect their bodies. Keep that gentle repose, youthful appearance and Inner beauty spells up and you might as well not even be undead, save for the negative energy.
>>26034270>skeleton made of living worms.Man, that's fucking creepy.
>>26034306Yeah, you could be a regular body made of worms, like any other worm that walks. Less spooky, but easier to hide your lich powers.>>26034379It gets worse: what if the lich was a lycanthrope? A skeleton made of worms that turns into a wolf. And is also an incorporeal ghost. Or a mummy, with tiny little bandages on all the worms.
>>26034472If I read the rules right, there really isn't a reason a Worm that Walks couldn't become a Worm that Walks made of Worms that Walk, if we don't mind recursive template applications.tl;dr: Each worm in a Worm that Walks could, in theory, become a Worm that Walks.
>>26034270>>26033613A lich can become a worm that walks ("any evil spellcaster")A worm that walks cannot become a lich ("must be humanoid")
>>26035539>if we don't mind recursive template applications.That's against the rules, except for the very rare templates that specify otherwise.>Each worm in a Worm that Walks could, in theory, become a Worm that Walks.The individual worms in a worm that walks is a different matter. It depends on if they can be treated as individual creatures capable of gaining templates, and if they can somehow be made evil spellcasters.
>>26035818>>26035539Besides that its a dumb idea and would keep stacking LA til the character is utterly unplayable, there's nothing additive about the worm that walks template.The worms are also not actual discrete creatures-with-statblocks.
>>26035597Not sure if you were talking 3.5 or what, but the Worm that Walks in the PF Bestiary 2 says augmented human, so unless there is a rule that states augmented templates can not be stacked, then they should be able to acheive lichdom.>>26035818According to the fluff (again, Pathfinder here), each worm is a part of a hivemind. The issue at this point is whether or not you want to treat parts of a hivemind as being equal to the whole, or a just a cell in a larger creature. If you see a worm in a WtW as a seperate entity, then the issue is how many worms make up a worm in a WtW. otherwise, you have to treat each worm as a cell or organ.
>>26035597Nah, lich can be added to any living creature that can construct a phylactery.
>>26035870Most commoners don't have a statblock. Are youu saying we couldn't add a template to them?
>>26035870>Besides that its a dumb ideaYour face is a dumb idea.>and would keep stacking LA til the character is utterly unplayablea) no LA is literally unplayable, b) worms that walk don't technically increase LA, c) what is an NPC?>there's nothing additive about the worm that walks template.Except numerous special abilities, new SLAs, new immunities, a second frightful presence and a second way to escape death.On, and being alive again.>The worms are also not actual discrete creatures-with-statblocks.Citation needed on creatures without stats not being creatures.And that doesn't matter anyway, because they could be PLO'd into creatures, with would probably be necessary to make them evil spellcasters anyway.
>>26035925"Augmented" is like a footnote as to what it was before. It means you count as the new type for effects, but you keep whatever BAB and saves of your previous type.The templates that don't give augmented are things like skeleton and zombie; your hit dice (any that are left) become fully of the new type, so poor fort, poor ref, poor BAB, good will for an un-augmented undead.>>26035947Of course commoners have stats. That's what the commoner class is for.The individual cells and shit in your body don't have stat blocks, nor do the individual worms. If they did, as each worm would presumably have the HP of a fine vermin, one fireball would kill all the worms and the Worm That Walks would be instantly killed. Hell, the individual creatures within a Swarm aren't treated as targettables or existent in any rules sense either.There's also that the individual worms were never evil or arcane casters.
>>26035925>Not sure if you were talking 3.5 or whatHe's wrong in both 3e and Pathfinder.>The issue at this point is whether or not you want to treat parts of a hivemind as being equal to the whole, or a just a cell in a larger creature.Either way, if there's some way for a player to interact with an individual worm (which there is RAW and RAI is in 3e at least, as individual worms are given an hp score), then they can be subject to spells/abilities in the process of becoming evil spellcasters.
>>26036032>"Augmented" is like a footnote as to what it was before. It means you count as the new type for effects, but you keep whatever BAB and saves of your previous type.It doesn't mean that; it just is usually paired with that, in 3.5 specifically.
>>26036074> individual worms are given an hp scoreAre you talking about Pathfinder? Because they aren't.If you were, one Whirlwind Attack and the Worm That Walks would be insta-deathed.>>26036016>Citation needed on creatures without stats not being creatures.Where does it state that templates can be applied to things that aren't discrete creatures?>Except numerous special abilities,which you already had before>new SLAs, I'm not sure "cast this 1/day" stacks with itself to become 2/day, but if it does, okay, yes, there is exactly one reason to stack Worm That Walks infinity times, so you can cast bug spells more than once.>new immunities,...which you already had the first time you got the template>a second frightful presenceYou have frightful presence or you don't.>and a second way to escape death."you can turn into a pile of bugs" doesn't stack with itself, nor would that make any sense or mean anything whatsoever
>>26036103Augmented is a subtype. You still don't count as a member of your old type for anything else.
>>26034270So waitWhat if a lich becomes a worm that walks...And then the worm that walks becomes a vampire?
>>26036126>>in 3e at least>Are you talking about Pathfinder?Reading is leet tech.
>>26036137You don't count as a member of your old type for anything at all, and the augmented subtype doesn't change that.
>>26036155>Reading is leet tech.It sure is, because the worms don't have individual stats in 3e and aren't implied to.
>>26036146Can aberrations become vampires?Would you, logically speaking, assume a pile of worms has blood to drain?
>>26036214According to wikipedia, yes.>Invertebrates>In insects, the blood (more properly called hemolymph) is not involved in the transport of oxygen. (Openings called tracheae allow oxygen from the air to diffuse directly to the tissues). Insect blood moves nutrients to the tissues and removes waste products in an open system.>Other invertebrates use respiratory proteins to increase the oxygen-carrying capacity. Hemoglobin is the most common respiratory protein found in nature. Hemocyanin (blue) contains copper and is found in crustaceans and mollusks. It is thought that tunicates (sea squirts) might use vanabins (proteins containing vanadium) for respiratory pigment (bright-green, blue, or orange).>In many invertebrates, these oxygen-carrying proteins are freely soluble in the blood; in vertebrates they are contained in specialized red blood cells, allowing for a higher concentration of respiratory pigments without increasing viscosity or damaging blood filtering organs like the kidneys.>Giant tube worms have unusual hemoglobins that allow them to live in extraordinary environments. These hemoglobins also carry sulfides normally fatal in other animals.
>>26036238https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BloodMight as well give a link to save someone else the trouble.
>>26036198>I'm being wrong and I can't get up!They're stated to have 1 hp each.Is hp not a stat?
>>26036278so, technically a level one magic touch spell can pretty badly fuck up a worm that walks?That's pretty jank.
>>26036481If you read the template, you'll see touching a worm that walks isn't the best idea.Besides, that's when the worm that walks has discorporated. The rest of the time, you're attacking any other evil mage.
>>26038133What level do I have to be to be a worm that walks?
>>2603815515th level Wizard, or a 16th level Sorcerer.http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/wormThatWalks.htm
>>26036278But that's not true at all.
>>26039155Yes it is; see Elder Evils.
>>26036126>Where does it state that templates can be applied to things that aren't discrete creatures?The worms are stated to be discrete creatures. In rules text.>I'm not sure "cast this 1/day" stacks with itself to become 2/dayWell if it doesn't, then you have "cast this 1/day, and cat this again 1/day", which is the same thing, isn't it?>You have frightful presence or you don't.You either save against it or you don't. Or you do and then fail your save against the second one.
>See this thread>My new villain is now a Black Blooded Worm that Walks Oracle Lich>Tiny exploding worms that do cold damage and negative damage>Worms crawling into someone's body and doing 3d6 damage repeatedly>Someone fucking stop me please
>>26046915Throwing the Deathleech template on, cuz I'm a huge asshole.
>>26039155>least true post ITT
>>26046915Wait. If a Worm that walks lich's body was destroyed, what would happen after that?A lich's spirit goes to the phylactory and then reforms, right? But would it reform the non-worm-that-walks body?Logically you'd need to go worm-that-walks to lich if you didn't want to have to redo the ritual every time.
>>26048961It would reform as a worm that walks lich.Neither ritual would need to be redone, unirregardless of order.
>>26048961Does each little worm have its own phylactery?
>>26052948Oh god, the crafting costs!!!
>>26053088Just keep having each worm gain xp by fighting other bugs.
>>26055625Maybe each worm can earn experience separately, so that you can spend one XP from each of your millions of worms to cast wishes and shit.Damn, it's officially the most broken thing ever.