"Run! Fall back!" Someone's screaming through the comm. "KEEP FIRING! GO! FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!" Says another female voice. You'd pay attention to who's actually saying something, but what should've been a pretty simple ambush from high ground has gone a bit sideways. You are the commander of the M26A1 Super Pershing called Black Ja- JESUS CHRIST! The entire turret resonates like a drum as a round explodes against your Pershing's gun mantlet. The force of the impact rocks your forty-ton tank backwards- a good sign since that means it probably didn't fully penetrate."Report?" You call out. "We lose anything?" The mantlet was perhaps the thickest point of the Pershing's armor, but there were numerous very important things bunched together behind and through it- like the main gun.Rose reports back. "No damage to gun, none to sights." She replies with unearthly calm. "Target, sir?"The question snaps you back into a proper aggressive mindset- there are four Glorianna tanks crawling up the rocky gully- three Matildas with squeeze-bore 2-pounder cannons and a Black Prince Churchill- a prototype British heavy tank armed with a 17-pounder anti-tank gun. Your position gives you a good hull-down, and the fact that the enemy tanks are firing up gives your already-sloped front hull an even more difficult angle to penetrate.Below you, Miho Nishizumi's Panzer IV is attempting to make it to cover before being perferated by the Glorianna tanks who are, thankfully, firing on the move.>Move forward- distract Darjeeling's tanks with a frontal attack to let the other tanks pull back.>Hold your ground and keep firing- we need to cover the Panzer IV before Darjeeling stops moving and starts aiming.>Pull back- you and the StuG need to get the secondary ambush point and maybe get another chance at taking a few of them out.
>>25367086>Pull back- you and the StuG need to get the secondary ambush point and maybe get another chance at taking a few of them out.Follow dem orders
>>25367086>Hold your ground and keep firing- we need to cover the Panzer IV before Darjeeling stops moving and starts aiming.I feel that this is the best answer.Also, for some reason as soon as I read this, the song "Holding out for a hero" popped into my head. Also also, HAHAHA, TIME FOR TONKS
>>25367086>Pull back- you and the StuG need to get the secondary ambush point and maybe get another chance at taking a few of them out.We stay, we get swamped. We need to move while we can.
>>25367086>Hold your ground and keep firing- we need to cover the Panzer IV before Darjeeling stops moving and starts aiming
>>25367086>>Hold your ground and keep firing- we need to cover the Panzer IV before Darjeeling stops moving and starts aiming.
>>25367086>Hold your ground and keep firing- we need to cover the Panzer IV before Darjeeling stops moving and starts aiming.
>Pull back- you and the StuG need to get the secondary ambush point and maybe get another chance at taking a few of them out.>Pray to the tank gods
>>25367086>Pull back- you and the StuG need to get the secondary ambush point and maybe get another chance at taking a few of them out.Stick with the plan.
>Take one shot, and then>Pull back- you and the StuG need to get the secondary ambush point and maybe get another chance at taking a few of them out.Might as well.
>>25367187Why did that make me think of leeroy jenkens?
>>25367211And not Momo's stunt earlier?
>>25367086>Pull back- you and the StuG need to get the secondary ambush point and maybe get another chance at taking a few of them out.We draw back and hit them from secondary Position. Miho will be fine and the plan requires that both we and the STuG be intact as we are pulling all the weight
>>25367086>Pull back- you and the StuG need to get the secondary ambush point and maybe get another chance at taking a few of them out.This ambush is a failure, we need to stick to the plan and fall back to the secondary ambush position.
>Pull back- you and the StuG need to get the secondary ambush point and maybe get another chance at taking a few of them out.The plan, stick with it.
>>25367268Thank you...I think.......Actually, yes. Thank you. Because dem pipes
>>25367086>>Pull back- you and the StuG need to get the secondary ambush point and maybe get another chance at taking a few of them out.Follow the plan. Squeeze bores and 17 pounders can wreck our shit if we sit tight, and the Panzer IV can only threaten the Matildas at suicidally close range. We still have a long way to go before we're fighting in the city.
>>25367086Fire the loaded round at one of the Matildas then pull back with the StuG to secondary ambush positions...
>>25367511This, pop off our loaded round and scoot
Did we ever decide whether it's Miho or MC that commands in battle? I think it would make more in-character sense to be Miho, but since we are the MC it would get a bit bland just waiting for orders.Still, I feel that we should:>Hold your ground and keep firing- we need to cover the Panzer IV before Darjeeling stops moving and starts aimingUntil we get radio'd to fall back.
>>25367608Miho instructed us last thread to fall back
>>25367086>>Hold your ground and keep firing- we need to cover the Panzer IV before Darjeeling stops moving and starts aiming.Try to limit our losses from the clusterfuck this has become. Then bug out to our first ambush site. Thankfully, if they stay to support the Black Prince, they are going to be about half as fast as us crosscountry.
>>25367086>Kill an enemy tank with the round you have loaded and pull back fast- you and the StuG need to get the secondary ambush point and maybe get another chance at taking a few of them out.
>>25367653But we don't know exactly how far the targets are. If they're far enough we should make use of this first ambush until they get too close for comfort
>>25367760even though it's basically failed?
>>25367760Man they are within 200m of us, they already are too close.
"Caesar, Erwin, pull back to the ambush point!" You call over the tank-to-tank. "Roger, Black Jack!" Caesar reports- you can't see to that side right now, but you hear and feel the self-propelled gun begin to pull back.The plan is botched enough as it is- you need to get things back on track. "Rose, target their lead tank, bringing you on them." Through the commander sight you can see Miho's Panzer IV take a glancing blow off the top of her turret, luckily the commander had dropped down into the armored confines a few seconds before. "AP up!" Roy calls."Firing." Rose says as she pulls the firing stud. The round impacts solidly against the right-front of the Black Prince's turret- the thick armor absorbed the impact but the force torqued the turret off-target just as it had fired on Miho's tank, causing a mile-wide miss."No dice." You confirm to Rose. "Richard pull us back! Full reverse and head for the ambush point.""Aye!" He calls and the engine roars as Black Jack begins crawling backwards up the hill.You've got time for one more shot as you move back through the pass.>Keep firing on the Black Prince- it's by far the largest threat and the easiest target.>Try to knock out a Matilda- they're smaller but you'll almost certainly knock one out if you hit.>Hold your fire- you're vulnerable on the move right now and you probably won't hit anything anyway, why draw heat right now?
>>25367775They are charging headlong at us, not flanking us so it hasn't been completely shot to hell.>>25367797If that's the case, then yes, run like the wind
>>25367826>>Try to knock out a Matilda- they're smaller but you'll almost certainly knock one out if you hit.That is one less threat engaging your tanks.
>>25367826Might want to knock out those Matildas, less guns firing on the team mean a greater chance to win.
>>25367826>Try to knock out a Matilda- they're smaller but you'll almost certainly knock one out if you hit.Less things shooting at you=happier tanker
>Hold your fire- you're vulnerable on the move right now and you probably won't hit anything anyway, why draw heat right now?Better play it safe until we get to the point. No point in missing like Momo while moving.
>>25367826>Try to knock out a Matilda- they're smaller but you'll almost certainly knock one out if you hit.BP will be the last boss. I know it in my treads.
>>25367826>Hold your fire- you're vulnerable on the move right now and you probably won't hit anything anyway, why draw heat right now?Getting back to the second ambush point alive is most important.
>>25367826>Hold your fire- you're vulnerable on the move right now and you probably won't hit anything anyway, why draw heat right now?We need to get back to the ambush point. Also load up some HVAP for the Prince
>>25367826>Try to knock out a Matilda- they're smaller but you'll almost certainly knock one out if you hit.one less now, one less later.
>>25367826>Try to knock out a Matilda- they're smaller but you'll almost certainly knock one out if you hit.We need to try and weaken them
>>25367826take a shot at a Matilda. one less tank to worry about...
>>25367826>Try to knock out a Matilda- they're smaller but you'll almost certainly knock one out if you hit.
>>25367826>>Keep firing on the Black Prince- it's by far the largest threat and the easiest target.Let's go for broke, here.
>Hold your fire- you're vulnerable on the move right now and you probably won't hit anything anyway, why draw heat right now?No point wasting ammo.
>>25367826>Take a shot at a nearby Matilda, then GUN IT
>>25367826>Hold your fire- you're vulnerable on the move right now and you probably won't hit anything anyway, why draw heat right now?GTFO
And to the anon who wanted a pinata cactus dick.I HOPE YOU ENJOY IT FAGGOT
>>25368181what the.. dude, i think you're in the wrong thread.
Also obligatory Darjeeling
>>25367968We have something like 70 rounds aboard. No sense in carrying all of them to the end.
>>25368236It's not so much wasting rounds as it is A) drawing heat and B) slowing down the retreat
>>25367826>Hold your fire- you're vulnerable on the move right now and you probably won't hit anything anyway, why draw heat right now?Can't get to a hidden position if you allow them to follow you there.
>>25367826>Hold your fire- you're vulnerable on the move right now and you probably won't hit anything anyway, why draw heat right now?
>>25368227Darjeeling? Nay laddie, Orang' Pekoe is superior.
>>25368257To A, we have the thickest armor on the team, might be able to take a hit from anything but the 17 pounder to the mantlet and bugger off still. To B, the Black Prince has a cross country speed less than half of ours.
Girls und Kotatsu~
Assam is best Gloriana girl.
>>25368442say that to my gab not online m8 and see what comes about
>>25368227>>25368382>>25368442Behold the enemy, the Brit.Note the lesser upper glacis as observed on our own troops here: >>25368431
Not a drop of tea spilled!
>>25367826>>Try to knock out a Matilda- they're smaller but you'll almost certainly knock one out if you hit.i say we should try to knock one of the matildas out it would realy help with moral if we can take one of them out
>>25368494We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
>>25368569What if we hold the tea and biscuits hostage?
Remov Matilda REMOV MATILDA
>>25368590You wouldn't dare...
>>25368590The tea is held in a tent by their ammo depot not sure where the biscuits are though
>>25368666You oddball brits, drinking it in dainty cups, and calling cookies "biscuits" its less holding it hostage and more freeing it from tyranny.
>>25368590call the brits that we have all of their cucumber sandwichs and if they don't throw the match, they will never see them again.
>>25368721Oh, I see, you're a bloody colonial. Well, that explains the trouble, then. Damn fool chaps, Americans, dumping perfectly good tea in harbours...
>>25368770Could be worse. At least that way the tea was in it's natural home...ish.They could have burned it. The heathens
>>25368770and made what tea is supposed to be. A nice large glass, ice cold and perfectly blended.not steaming hot and needs constant sturring
>>25368805Now that's just blasphemyBite your tongue
>>25368823It tastes of freedom.
"Target, Matilda on the left." You say to Rose. "Range: two-fifty. Moving shot." You say, summoning calm."AP up!""Firing." The tank shakes yet again as the round arcs down and impacts the Matilda on it's left-front. The little British tank is turned right from the impact, stoppping almost immediately and causing the Matilda behind it to slam into it's rear. A white flag pops up, with the bonus being that the rear-most Matilda now needed to untangle itself from it's KO'd teammate."Good hit! Scratch one! Matilda Three is caught up in it too!" You call over the open comm- it'd be a good morale boost to know that one of Glorianna's tanks had been taken down, but as your tank starts back down the other side of the hill you hear Saori call out over the open comms."We're hit!""Status!?" You shout, with near panic."We're ok..." She says, with a pause indicating that she's relaying information. "Left track is damaged, we're slowing down, but we're in cover." You breath a sigh of releaf- the Panzer IV is one of the only tanks on your team capable of scratching those Matildas. "Miho says to continue with the plan- we'll catch up!">Follow orders and head to the next ambush site.>Slow down and protect the Panzer IV.>Stay back and cover the Panzer IV's retreat.
>>25368823boy, now see here, we both agree on tea, but dipping things into it like its coffee is the blasphemy. and i done bit my tongue, and a bears. Just how we do things here.
>>25368851Pfft. You colonies are just like teenagers. We have your best interests in mind, and then you have to go all rebel.
>Tea warsAll is lost ALL IS LOST
>>25368859>Follow orders and head to the next ambush site.WELL FUCK
>>25368823Ice Tea is the ONLY way it should be. now you and those damn Yankees can scoot on outa here. (England wasn't much help in the war of Northern Aggression, you won't be much help now)
>Follow orders and head to the next ambush site.Great job guys "They can't harm the Black Jack they say" we'll be lucky to get away due to your dumbassery.
>>25368859>Follow orders and head to the next ambush siteRule number one: DON'T DISOBEY THE MIHONATOR
>>25368859>Follow orders and head to the next ambush site.
>>25368897We didn;t get hit, you ass. It was Miho's tank that got hit in the tracks. Read it again.
>>25368859Miho can handle herself. We need to trust in her and her crew.>Follow orders and head to the next ambush site.
>>25368859>Follow orders and head to the next ambush site.Trust Miho to know what she's doing, but keep an eye on the horizon and an ear on the radio.
>>25368859>>Follow orders and head to the next ambush site.
>>25368897Miho's tank has been hit not us.
>>25368859>Follow orders and head to the next ambush site.We have to follow the plan.
>>25368859>Stay back and cover the Panzer IV's retreatWe don't leave a man behind!
>>25368859>>Follow orders and head to the next ambush site.stick to the plan chums
>>25368859Ask Miho if she needs cover. She will probably be able to do the cold calculus that will probably escape us.
What if we combine the two?
>>25368951Miho just said to stick to the plan and get to the next ambush point.>"Miho says to continue with the plan- we'll catch up!"She already did the calculus and came up with leaving the Panzer IV behind.
>>25368968YOU SPEAK MADNESS, YOU FOOL!
>>25368968And get what, lukewarm tea? No thank you
>>25368859if Miho is flag tank>Stay back and cover the Panzer IV's retreat.if Miho not flag>Follow orders and head to the next ambush siteshit, we're not choo choo any more.
>>25368968Arnold palmer is greatest thing.
>>25368968what? both style of tea? WHAT HORROR DO YOU SPEAKI'd sooner call myself a dirty yankee and throw down my guns, even melt them into peace offerings
>>25368993There ain't no flag-tank.The rules are "Kill 'em all"
>>25368993We elimination battle naow.
>>25368859To da ambush!
>>25369000>both style of teaLook at his pic.Iced tea and lemonade.Stupid fucking southrons.
>>25368894>war of Northern AggressionYou mean the rebellion of the South?
>>25368968WHAT HERESY IS THIS?!?!
>>25368980>>25369000Just try and stop me!
>>25369038You, still wrong to mix tea with anything.>>25369042War is written by the victors. we are just simple farmers bullied and beaten by a bunch of bankers and oddballs.>>25369057If our battles teach us anything, its that scrawny fools like you dont last long.
>>25369038don't blame us, Arnold Palmer is a Yankee. he made that waste.
>>25369121Waste? that stuff is good as shit.
>Follow orders and head to the next ambush site.Keep extra alert, however, and be ready to improvise on the spot if needed. Commander Miho has made the noble decision to fight and carry out her duty with an impaired tank, even if it costs her her tank, so it is our duty to back her up and follow through with the plan.
>>25369105>>25369152Can you guys please, *please* take this debate somewhere else? You're going to send us into autosage at this rate.
>>25369208Just start reporting them. Shitposts are shitposts.
>>25368859slow down and protect.
It's the same guys who keep on discussing off-topic bullshit in every GuP quest thread.Report them and move on.
>>25369213You're both fucking retards.Northfag, the Southern states were technically within their rights to withdraw from the Union.Southfag, you fucking retards decided, after seceding, to pick a fight with your heavily industrialized northern neighbors.Now both of you shut the fuck up.
>>25369121I was saying that you're fucking stupid for not figuring out what he was talking about from the pic.Stupid fucking southron.
I hope that shot made Darjeeling drop her tea, the smarmy bint
>>25369676You mean Britaboo?She's still Japanese.
>>25369698Did anyone claim otherwise?
They'll catch up we need to head towards the ambush point
>>25369698"Bint" not "Brit".As in "I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor, just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!"
>>25369698http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bint It's a slightly less vulgar form of 'bitch', not specific to English women, just the English vernacular.
>>25369740>>25369743Gah, I've hard a weird day and misread that.
>>25368859>Stay back and cover the Panzer IV's retreat>Follow orders and head to the next ambush site
>>25369847Those are mutually exclusive.
>>25368859Okay, let's weigh our options.Follow orders and fall back, we have a chance to fight again later from a better position.Slow down to protect the Panzer IV will make it even easier to KO Black Jack.Stay back and cover the Panzer IV is suicide.Those Matildas are packing Little Johns. We do not want to trifle with them. We just have to trust that Miho knows what she's doing and fall back.
>>25370182But a slow fall back with discouragement fire?misoftee seems. Jack's gun oughta be worrying.
>>25370182I feel that us taking out one Matilda and slowing another is enough for Miho to Macgyver herself out.
>>25370245Did that go through google translate or what?
>>25370245The 90mm a Super Pershing packs is a damned powerful gun, but it won't do us any good to slow down and fire on the move and St. Gloriana knows that. They're experienced veterans, us lobbing shells practically at random in their general direction isn't going to shake them up. It's just going to waste shells.
>>25370245Not when the Matilda's and the Black Prince can concentrate fire on the Black Jack, and they're packing cannon that CAN penetrate our armor.They'd be fools not to sacrifice one or two Matildas in order to take out the greatest threat to their team.
>>25368859>>Slow down and protect the Panzer IV.
>>25370272Not, it did not. Sorry, my attention's distracted. There's this paranormal Nazi documentary on the History Channel that seems to have inspired certain story lines in the Mignola-verse and Dust Tactics.>>25370299Right, so let's lob a shell at a Matilda before scurrying away. Trust in the Panzer IV's boss to get out.
"Roger, Saori." You say. "Stay safe, let us know if you need help- we'll be up ahead." Even at reduced speed the Panzer IV would outrun the British Infantry tanks- it was just a matter of whether they'd get out of range before Darjeeling cleared that pass."Okay! Good luck!" Saori calls back.The ambush point is about two miles down the road- you make good speed on the gravel road and you're there in about ten minutes. The first thing you see as your turn the corner are those goddamn inspirational flags sticking up from behind a bush. "Dammit, guys! I told you guys to take those things down!" You say, annoyed."We've got a plan!" Caesar replies. After a short plan. "Alright, Rommel had a plan.""It better be good." You reply, Rich swinging Black Jack around the corner and back into the tree line. As you align the turret and start pre-ranging the fire-zone Miho's Panzer IV finally catches up and you get a good look at it. It doesn't look good- The Panzer IV had taken two hits- one to the track-cowling, tearing away the rear third and leaving what remained scraping along the top of the traps and a second had blown off two road wheels."Jeez." Rich remarks. "I don't think they're going to make it to the city in that condition, maybe they should come with us after the ambush?"As the come into view of you, you're already up out of the commander's hatch, waving them down.>"You guys aren't going to make it Oorai alone with that kind of damage...">"We're ambushing them here- keep going and we'll meet you in Oorai."
>>25370405Dude, a Super Pershing doesn't scurry anywhere. One of the biggest problems with the design was that it was too heavy for its engine. You're lucky to see one going greater than 30 k/ph and that's going downhill.
Are smoke launchers or smoke shells available at this point that complies with senshado rules?
>>25370412>"You guys aren't going to make it Oorai alone with that kind of damage..."
>>25370405>that seems to have inspired certain story lines in the Mignola-verse and Dust TacticsOr was inspired by them.The "Hitler was an alien vampire" crowd aren't exactly bright.>>25370412>"We're ambushing them here- keep going and we'll meet you in Oorai."
>>25370412At first I was like"We're ambushing them here- keep going and we'll meet you in Oorai."But then I remembered there is still one Matilda unaccounted for, so:>"You guys aren't going to make it Oorai alone with that kind of damage..."
>>25370412>"We're ambushing them here- keep going and we'll meet you in Oorai."If we don't take out a few here, then we're fucked in the town.
>>25370458They used smokescreens a lot in the later battles when they were totally outgunned.
>>25370412>"We're ambushing here- keep going and we'll meet you in Oorai">>25370445I know it's a heavy tank. The word 'scurrying' seemed appropriate.
>>25370412>"We're ambushing them here--keep going and we'll meet you in Ooarai"Let's just hope their tank holds together long enough to get in to the city.
>>25370412>"We're ambushing them here- keep going and we'll meet you in Oorai."We need this ambush to go as planned.
>>25370412>>"We're ambushing them here- keep going and we'll meet you in Oorai.""But let us know if you break down, and there's something we can do to help"
>>25370412>"You guys aren't going to make it Oorai alone with that kind of damage...">>25370468That's assuming the fifth tank is a Matilda, Darjeeling might have something else hidden up her sleeve.
>>25370483>>25370496>>25370500Both options mean we will ambush them, the former of the two is sending PzIV ahead with an escort, the latter is sending PzIV alone to town.That's what I think, anyway.
>>25370548>sending PzIV ahead with an escortWhat escort?The StuG is needed here, as is the Black Jack.The freshmen bailed out of their tank, so that's one tank down already.And if the other two survived, then they should already be in town.So escorting the PzIV means weakening the ambush, not something we can really afford.As it is right now, the Panzer is more of a liability if we have to defend it.
>>25370412The first one seems the more logical thing to say.
>>25370412>"We're ambushing them here. Erwin if you have a plan, better make it snappy."
>>25370412we're cover you Miho, just get as far as you can. I just don't think you'll make it to town. find some cover along the way and jump them as they fallow us.
Gloriana is only fielding four tanks, guys. The Black Prince and the three Matildas. I asked op in PM on IRC and he said the above.
>>25370412>"We're ambushing them here- keep going and we'll meet you in Oorai."Do tell them how much damage they have so Miho can factor that in.
>>25370597Team GUTS?I'm afraid if we send PzIV off alone it'll be done in by the Unidentified Armored Vehicle.
>>2537062223:46:09 <BlackJack> I said Glorianna isn't fielding five tanks.23:46:22 <me> I know.23:46:44 <me> So only four, three matildas and the prince, then?
>>25370548they don't need an escort, the brits are not there.
>>25370548While we provide cover with the StuG, Miho can link up with the Volleyball team and the StuCo and maybe try to jerry rig some repairs on their tank. The only outlier after that is us and the StuG bugging out of the ambush position once we've laid down as much hurt as we can.
>>25370642>>25370651Well alrighty then
>>25370642Yeh....That's not confirmation on 4. Only confirmation its not 5.IMPLICATIONS!
>>25370672>While we provide cover with the StuG, Miho can link up with the Volleyball team and the StuCoOkay, explain how we're going to still be in an ambush position if we're escorting the damaged Panzer IV.Because we don't have the speed, even if we weren't escorting a damaged Panzer that's had its speed reduced, to get to town and back to the ambush site before the Matilda's and the Black Prince overtake that position.
>>25370412>"We're ambushing them here- keep going and we'll meet you in Oorai."Be sure to call for support if you need it though, ok?
>>25370412>>"We're ambushing them here- keep going and we'll meet you in Oorai."
>>25370412>"We're ambushing them here- keep going and we'll meet you in Oorai."Let's face it- Miho's a better commander than we are, her survival's more important than ours. Hopefully Black Jack can take a few of them with us.
Well, let's see if we can't raise the volleyball team on the tank-to-tank then to scout for the alledged fifth tank.Meanwhile, ERWIN STOW THOSE FLAGS
>>25370764Our survival is the #1 if we are to do anything about BP.Miho couldn't beat a normal churchill in a working PzIV, she has snowball's chance in hell against a BP in a crippled panzer
>>25370781I think that's a fake position, dude.We only see the flags, but there's no mention of the StuG actually being there.
Might as well let them try to reach Oorai and commence the ambush
>"We're ambushing them here. Erwin if you have a plan, better make it snappy.">>25370764Drop the self-degrading defeatist attitude. That's why we lost the practice round.>>25370642We're fielding 6 tanks, so it is logical that the Brits are fielding 6, not 4.
>>25370781She's using those as bait. They are hiding in a different bush
>>25370707>paranoiajesus dude it isn't planefag we're talking about(because BlackJack actually writes)
>>25370844Quest runner said they were fielding three Matildas plus the Prince
>>25370872It's blatantly obvious, c'mon.3 shipping containers, one has the Black Prince, other 2 containers contents are presently unknown, just what the hell are you expecting?
>>25370844The last two are Centurions, aren't they?
>>25370904No, all he said was that they weren't fielding five tanks.Six is not five.
I WANT AIR RECON! NOW!!LOAD YUKARI INTO THE CANNON AND FIRE HER UP IN THE AIR FROM WHERE SHE CAN REPORT ENEMY ACTIVITY FOR ALL OF GLORIOUS 10 SECONDS.
>>25370949Let's see....what could he throw at us instead of Churchills and Matildas...There's the Covenenter, the Cruiser, the Cromwell, and the AT series.The AT series is what worries me. They're slow as all fuck, but they're armored like a fucking beast and pack a wallop.Covenenters are small, fast, but can't tangle with the Pershing. Same with the Cruisers.Cromwells could be a problem though.
>>25371096Centurions dude!They're allowed under the rules, in spite of controversy about the first MBT fighting other WWII shit!This was stated in a previous thread!
>>25370934NO.NO PLEASE GOD NO.NO.NOOOOOOOOO.
>>25371096How about LITTLEJOHN ADAPTORSALL DA LITTLEJOHNNS. BECAUSE THAT WAS WHAT WAS IN THE BIG BOX.Seriously, let's raise the volleyball team and ask them to look out for anything that isn't in Oorai colors.Meanwhile we assume that Darjeeling is a bitch and assumes that a Black Prince and 3 Matilda with Littlejohns is enough to steamroll us with.And then we hit on her while feasting on her tears.
>>25371177double dubs confirms it
>>25370934After the LJs, 2 whole centurions would be tad overkill.God have mercy
>>25371152I was trying to be optimistic, not scared shitless at our prospects
>>25371221What about two half centurions?
>>25371233From a meta standpoint though, losing this match would cause the girls to serious the fuck up, and stop goofing off.
>>25371342A very close shave is just as good.
>>25371342Yeah, but they at least had a chance against a Chuchill and Matildas....throwing one or more Centurions into the mix isn't even doing that.that's why I'm hoping for one of the others (Cromwell, Cruiser, Covenenter, AT)
>>25371342You know, that never occurred to me. Not that I want to lose or anything, but now if we do lose, it doesn't seem quite as bad.Though if Black Jack and Kampfgruppe Miho carry the whole team to victory, we have a pretty effective way to beat the other teams into effectiveness.
>>25371342>>25371359the freshmen girls will get a spanking after ward for bugging out on us in a fight.
>>25371342What kind of attitude is that? As it is we have enough grounds to yell some sense into one team at least.Though hopefully we'll have more time to train before things really begin as part of the problem was a lack of training.
"You guys sure you're gonna make Oorai like that?" You ask as Miho comes up from the Panzer IV's cupola. "You guys look like you're a roadbump away from a mobility kill." Nodding down at the nearly crippled track.Miho nods an affirmative. "Yes. If we go slow and don't run into any more trouble we'll make it." She says, trying to smile encouragingly. "It's all downhill from here, anyway.""You sure? You could follow along with us after the ambush." You ask- she's trying to hang tough and get more out of her tank than it can probably give. "We're going to need every gun we can get in the city."She shakes her head and smiles. "We'd just slow you down." She starts dipping back down into the turret. "Good luck on the ambush!" She says before closing the hatch. Well, you can't say you didn't try. As the Panzer IV begins moving up the road towards Oorai, Richard calls up from the driver position with more than a bit of worry in his voice. "They aren't coming?""Nope." You say, watching the Panzer IV limp off down the road. "Miho says they can make it- We've already got the long way back and they'd just slow us down more." You harden your voice with that last part. "We do our job here and they'll make it just fine." You swing the hatch down behind you. "Let's get things ready- Roy, load AP and have some HVAP ready- I don't want any more bounces. Patrick, get on the horn with the StuG...">"Tell them to hammer the Black Prince. Once it's down we can mop up the rest.">"Tell them to hit the Matildas first then concentrate fire on the Black Prince- we end this now.">"Tell them to attack the Matildas first then pull back- we'll have the number and terrain advantage once we get to Oorai."
>>25371342Damned if we aren't going to go down kicking and screaming still.>>25371376When we lost to Miho, we gained knowledge that team GUTS make for fine scouts, Miho's confidence got a boost, and hopefully everyone learned that Blackjack isn't invincible.If we had won that one we'd just got the bragging rights and learned nothing.
>>25371418>Tell them to hammer the Black Prince. Once it's down we can mop up the rest."The Black Prince is the largest threat they have, armor-wise.
>>25371418"Tell them to attack the Matildas first then pull back- we'll have the number and terrain advantage once we get to Oorai."Take out the flankers and we'll be able to concentrate fire once we fall back into the city
>>25371418>"Tell them to hit the Matildas first then concentrate fire on the Black Prince- we end this now."Multiple dead enemy tanks is better than one wounded enemy tank.
>>25371458Yeah, that makes sense. +1
>>25371418>"Tell them to hammer the Black Prince. Once it's down pull back- we'll have the number and terrain advantage once we get to Oorai."If we can only get one certain kill, it should be this one.
>>25371418>"Tell them to hit the Matildas first then concentrate fire on the Black Prince- we end this now."WoW PVP: Kill of the squishies, then the hard target. And it might not end here even if we get them.
>>25371418>"Tell them to attack the Matildas first then pull back- we'll have the number and terrain advantage once we get to Oorai."Matildas first, the slow-ass Black Prince is going to be at a severe disadvantage if we can draw it into Oorai.
>>25371418>"Tell them to hit the Matildas first then concentrate fire on the Black Prince- we end this now."Tea time is over.
>>25371418>>"Tell them to attack the Matildas first then pull back- we'll have the number and terrain advantage once we get to Oorai."
>>25371466Except that ALL of their tanks can easily pen our teammates, so priority should go to quantity.
>>25371473>>25371466We might hit a snag if we run into the British reinforcements while on the way to OaraiIf they exist
>>25371418Pop the Waltzing Matildas, then pull back.Fun fact: the Matildas move at a glacial 24km/h. So does the Black Prince.But those Littlejohns have to go.
>>25371418take out the matildas as best you can, once they get too close, fall back again towards town. i don't think we can stop them, but we sure will bleed them hard.
>>25371558>Matildas move at a glacial 24km/hEngland, England plz. Srsly England, what you doing bro?
>>25371525But if we stand and slug it out, it's 3 to 2 at best, and the Stug team may be clever, but they aren't terribly experienced, while we're facing a (more) experienced group of enemy tankers. Once we blow out AP wad, we lose the element of surprise and our asses are swinging in the breeze.
>>25371594Well, they're Infantry Tanks. They're not meant to go much faster than the infantrymen that would've been supporting them. You want speed? Go for a Cruiser.
>>25371418>"Tell them to hit the Matildas first then concentrate fire on the Black Prince- we end this now."Damned straight!
>>25371611>Infantry Tanks>Cruiser TanksStupidest distinction ever, the Brits got bit in the ass by it, and then they spent most of the war being butthurt. It wasn't until the Centurion that they really wised up.
>>25371629Undergunned, underpowered, underamored or American. Take your pick.
>>25371610The thing is, if there aren't any more Brit tanks, then yes, we can't win a slugout before we get to town. But if there are, then these ones go down easily and we get a sigh of relief before the radio wails that PzIV is under attack by more Brits. Which we'll have to engage in town. You just can't have an Oarai battle without some urban combat
>>25371676Well, the sherman was underarmored, and until the firefly came about, undergunned. It is a good thing the eastern front was going on, otherwise we would have been hosed.
>>25371703Don't forget the Easy Eight and the Jumbo, too.
>>25371629It was the limits of technology at the time, as well as doctrine. Everyone thought they'd be fighting the last war again. You couldn't MAKE an MBT worth a damn early war.
>>25371629Let me repost what I said a few threads back.British tank design doctrine was ruled by politics, horsefuckers and complete and utter stupidity. Not only did they ignore their leading tank theorists and send THEIR ONLY GOOD GENERAL WITH ACTUAL TANK EXPERIENCE TO THE FUCKING DESERT, the fucking General Staff, being complete and utter horsefucking asshole horsefuckers, decided to split their tank classifications into two: Infantry support and Cruisers.Infantry support tanks were meant to support infantry. The Matilda, Valentine and Churchill were designed with this in mind. They are fucking metal bricks with a piddly gun.The Cruisers, on the other hand, was meant to be the cavalry: charge in hard and fast and fuck shit up.The Covenaters, Crusaders and pretty much anything that wasn't a Matilda or Churchill.And now here comes the fun part. Matildas and Churchills are super slow but can take a shitload of damage. Cruiser-type tanks have fucking paper for Armor, but may have good guns.The best part? Those fucking tanks have a tendency to break down and die every so often. Why? Because the damn Brits thought putting WWI AIRPLANE ENGINES INTO A TANK WAS A GOOD IDEA.Shit fuck shit, when a tank crew in Britain got a motherfucking LEE to drive, they were crying their hearts out? Why? BECAUSE THEY FINALLY HAD SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T FUCKING BREAK BEFORE IT FOUGHT.YES BRITAIN, I MAD. THE CRUISER TANK CONCEPT WAS A FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT EVEN BEFORE IT GOT OFF THE DRAWING BOARD.
>>25371733They came in very late, though, and in the jumbo's case, very limited numbers.
>>25371703The Sherman had similar armour to a Panzer 3 or 4. What it didn't have at first was wet ammo storage.>>25371733Very late in the war they were, all things considered.
>>25371767Hindsight is 20:20, General Armchair.
>>25371796Less GENERAL ARMCHAIR and more WoTfaggotry.The Matilda, Churchill and Valentine tanks were fine in theory and practice. But the slow speed is a massive turnoff.
>>25371767The actual engineering on the things was still utter genius conpared to Yank tank design in 1941/42. At the time when the Russians were running T34 obr 1942s, The best the Yanks made was.. The M2 Medium. Yeah. And even knowing about the PzIV, T34, etc, you decided to build the Goddamn Lee.America has nothing to be proud about here.
>>25371865The M3 Lee was meant to be a stopgap and everyone knows it.
>>25371865P4 was more or less an Infantry tank itself. And it was in very small numbers. They made the lee with the P2, P3, and Panzer 38(t) in mind, and it did a good job against all of those.
>>25371882Unfortunate in a way we didn't just go full casemate and beat the germans to a casemate AFV.
>>25371882Stopgap or not, it was a shocking design decision when they had enormous practical examples of what did and didn't work available to them.Urgency does not excuse retardation.
>>25371965Shocking my ass. It did good service in the desert, design philosophy flaws aside. And on the last note, there's no tank that's immune there. When it was developed, tank design was in it's infancy, as was tank doctrine.
>>25371965Except that, if you look at the historical record, the Lee and Grant performed quite well in North Africa.
>>25371796>Hindsight is 20:20>The essential characteristics of the standard type were oil fuel, "all or nothing" armor, the arrangement of the main battery into four turrets and significant deck armor providing protection against shells fired from long range. This combination of features made the Nevada's the prototype of the modern battleship. For example the protection of the standard class battleships was not significantly revised after the Battle of Jutland while other Navies tended to distinguish between pre- and post-Jutland designs.THIS.EXCUSES.NOTHING.ESPECIALLY NOT THE ENGINES.How did the Germans - who didn't even invent the concept of the tank in the first place - manage to do so much better with their first real medium tank? This man has some real justification for his rage, hindsight or no.
>>25371965We were playing catchup through the entirety of the war with regards to armor. We just didn't have the prewar development that other countries did, or the early war hard lessons that others learned. You say we had "enormous practical examples", but how many of those made it state side?
>>25371865The M3 Lee is basically the lowest a tank should ever go. It is a horrible design, even when compared to the Cruiser tanks I hate so much.Hell, even when compared to the B1 Char, it's still fuck ass retarded. And the B1 Char is a FRENCH TANK. THE. FUCKING. B1. CHAR. THE TANK THAT COULD TANK ALL DA PANZERS (during the Blitzkrieg of Europe, circa 1939) AND STILL KILL THEM ALL.Any lower and we're going full Italian and Japanese. Chi-ha notwithstanding.>>25371965It's called politics. The same reason why Cruiser tanks existed.>>25371997Lemme put it this way. THE BRITS THOUGHT THE LEE WAS BETTER THAN THEIR TANKS. THAT WAS HOW BAD THE CRUISER TANKS WERE.
>>25372021>Any lower and we're going full Italian and Japanese. Chi-ha notwithstanding.Dude, at that point we're not merely 'going lower', we're actively sampling the Earth's core.
>>25372012>How did the Germans - who didn't even invent the concept of the tank in the first place - manage to do so much better with their first real medium tank?Enslaved nazi scientists.
>>25371994Yes, it did. The M-3 Lee kicked the Panzer III's sorry ass - thicker armor, better slopes on the armor, and better guns - the fucking Panzer III had a fifty-milimeter gun, for gods sake.What the fuck is it with people? Do you all really think the Panther and the Tiger were the only tanks the Krauts built? Most of their vehicles were Panzer IIIs and Panzer IVs. Fuck. FUCK! The Lee/Grant were fine tanks for the job they were meant to do, they saved the Allies collective asses in the desert, and just because a bunch of Russians cried like bitches when they got shitty obsolete hand-me-downs doesn't change that.
>>25372061You realise the M2 Medium was japan tier, and designed in the '40sYeah.
>>25372097>and designed in the '40sNo. No it wasn't. The M2 medium was first produced in '39, by Rock Island Arsenal, and was quickly abandoned when events in Europe showed it to be obsolete as fuck.
>>25372021>Hell, even when compared to the B1 Char, it's still fuck ass retarded.And its worth noting the B1 Char could whip a Panzer III pretty handily. >worse then the B1 CharI don't see Americans putting the radiators on the side of the tank where it can easily be shot. The Lee could take a hit better, and dish it out better. How was it worse then the goddamn Char?
>>25372012German tanks weren't actually that good. They were just used in a very intelligent manner. They'd have been in a very difficult place if not for Czecknology.The P2 had a CRAP gun, very thin armour. It's real virtues were good commanders and crew, and decent internal visibility as well as radios. All strategic considerations as the Germans were thinking of tanks like heavy cavalry. The Brits were thinking of them as a continuation of the old proven techniques, and also assuming a defensive war. Their infantry tanks were very very hard to kill, the Germans were forced to use 88s against them. The 2 pounder compared fine to german guns of the period.>>25372021The Lee was a lot newer. That's the main part. It's not a horrible design. The most that can be said is that they didn't anticipate how important hull down positions were going to be. And even then the 75mm was great at blowing holes in things in the desert, at longer ranges.
>>25372097The M2 Medium had a fucking open top. A FUCKING OPEN TOP.And the Italians' best tank... still had riveted armor. Yeah.>>25372134The French were not anticipating the shit the Germans pulled. And even then, it could still whip a German tank pretty damn good that even Guderian himself was amazed by it.>>25372145Yes. Mounting motherfucking autocannons when everyone else was mounting much bigger guns on their tanks. Very smart move, Germany.Also, yes, the Lee could do what it did very, very well. The CBI Theater fucking loved the Lee.It does not mean it was a good design, though.
>>25372089Actually, the largest group of German AFVs consisted of StuGs.>>25372018Yep, the Clappers also lacked a testbed for tank desgins in doctrines, while Europe just used the Spanish Civil War for that.
>>25372244Designs and doctrines, that is.
>>25372221The test of a design is what it can accomplish. And the Lee was an effective tool, whatever alternatives might have been possible. It was a good tank, if flawed.>>25372244StuGs were based on both the P3 and P4, though.
>>25372286In the same way I could argue that the Matilda was a good tank, if flawed.I'm not denying the fact that it did good despite its flaws. I am saying it was a bad design that did a lot of good things despite it being a bad design.Did I forget to mention the the Brits in the CBI Theater fucking loved The Lee?
>>25372286Just because it used the same chassis doesn't mean its the same vehicle though, does it?In fact the early Shermans used a modified M3 hull, does that make it a Lee or Grant? Or the Ferdinand a Tiger?
>>25372352>MatildaJust like the Churchill, it had all the makings of a fine assault tank, except then they gave it a pissant shit gun.In Combat Mission (game with very accurate tank on tank simulation) I watched a Churchill and a Jadgpanzer play slap and tickle till each one ran out of ammo.BOOM! PING!BOOM! PING!ugh
>>25371676American; HAH! the vaunted Sherman was a failure on every point except amount: Undergunned, too high, too big profile, underarmoured, and let's not forget thos beautiful epic fails of the first motor causing some to spontaneously combust.The two things that ever saved the Sherman in WWII was America's ability to field ten of them were their opponents could field one, two at best. (Cue Stalin's favored saying!) That and it's adaptability.
>>25372370>Or the Ferdinand a Tiger?Don't be retarded. The Ferdinand is a Porsche Tiger.
>>25372221>It does not mean it was a good design, though.It was cheap and very easy to produce in sufficient quantities and speed with the tooling that was available at the time, and it was good enough to trump the main enemy battle tank at that time.I mean, the P-51 was successful, but then jets came out a few years later and it was just shit against those. P-51 was clearly not a good design.
>>253724243/10, damn near believed you were serious.
>>25372424The Sherman was a product of American tank doctrine, which was just as fucked up as the Brit one.Bascially Shermans were infantry support tanks that should not directly engage Kraut tanks if possible and let the tank destroyers do the work. You can't expect them to work miracles and knock out a Tiger with one shot from the front.
>>25372427The Ferdinand is a vehicle built on the chassis of the Porsche Tiger prototype. There's a difference.
>>25372470O lawdy this old myth again. That doctrine was largely abandoned by the time the Sherman was built, since the 'Murricans had just finished churning out a bunch of M3 Grants for the Brits when the Brits came running over screaming OH FUCK OUR CRUISER TANK/INFANTRY TANK DOCTRINE JUST GOT ITS SHIT PUSHED THE FUCK INPeople somehow conclude the Sherman was an "infantry tank" because it first came with the low-velocity 75mm gun... which was just fine at killing Panzer IVs. You know, medium tanks. They couldn't kill Tigers or Panthers because those were FUCKING HEAVY ASSAULT TANKS. Until they put a 76mm gun on them, and then they could. But by V-E day half the Shermans in Europe still had the 75mm gun... because it threw more HE. And they were using them against infantry a lot more then enemy armor. And most enemy armor they saw in Europe was shit like STUGs or halftracks - Germans simply didn't have a lot of tanks. The blistering incompetence of German mass-manufacturing has been warped after the fact into DAS WUNDERWEAPONS WOULD HAVE KILLED YOU ALL BUT ALAS YOU ZERGRUSHED US LIKE THE FILTHY NON-ARYANS YOU ARE.Stop repeating nazi propaganda, you motherfuckers. Stop it.
>>25372470Now American Tank Destroyers...Every time we actually followed doctrine they raped face. We followed doctrine like once.
>>25372545That's because Americans feel no need to read their manuals or follow their doctrine.
>>25372523but amurrrikkka sucks
>>25372523It's not an old myth, son... Tests made by both camps during the goddamn war proved that the Sherman had trouble keeping up with a (upguneed and long-barreled) IV, and was in almost every possible way inferior to a V or VI.Despite this, the sheer volume of them tipped the balance easily. But as was said above, getting shit done with a bad design doesn't makes the fact that it is a bad design dissappear.
>>25372523Annnnnnnnnd it's not just that.Hitler's insistence of SUPERWEAPONS also meant that parts STANDARDIZATION could not happen as well.Now imagine that you have all these tanks and few standardized parts to use when you needed to fix a tank. Since your regiment/battalion/brigade is full of DIFFERENT TANKS and SUPERTANKS and WUNDERTANKS, you don't have ALL DA PARTS needed to fix them.Couple that with an almost-dying manufacturing capacity and you basically have NOTANKS.
....Is Blackjack done for the day?
>>25372596>It's not an old myth, son... Tests made by both camps during the goddamn war proved that the Sherman had trouble keeping up with a (upguneed and long-barreled) IV, and was in almost every possible way inferior to a V or VI.That is a sack of raging horse-shit. For starters, the Panzer V had no sloped armor whatsoever. The Sherman made much, much better use of it. Armed with a 76mm gun (and about half of them were,) it could easily punch holes in a Panzer V at any range. And that's to say nothing of the "Plus" tanks, or any number of other variants that were made. Or of the gyro-stabilizer for the gun, or the field intercom, or high-quality gun optics, or any other number of substantial technical advantages it had. Fucking revisionist history bullshit
>>25372665Panzer V - Panther - no sloped armou- c'mon man. MAKE AN EFFORT.It was the Panzer VI, Tiger that decided cubism was shit hot.
>>25372523Except that the 75mm M3 the Sherman used could barely penetrate a PzKpfw 4 from the front - now that wasn't as much of an issue as the PzKpfw 3 was still the main WH tank when the Sherman was introduced. The American tank destroyer doctrine saw use after the Brits got their teeth kicked in, by the way, precisely in 1942. Regarding German manufacturing, they couldn't even get the quality part right, what with those overengineered suspensions and all.
>>25372665You have absolutely no idea of what you're speaking about!Get your fact straights and try again, please, you're ridiculing yourself!
>>25372665the panzer V was the panther chief. you're thinking of the pzIV.Pic related, it's a panther. Note the sloping.
>>25372665The 76mm needed to use HVAP ammo to punch holes into a Tiger I at half the engagement range the Tiger needed to evaporate the Sherman.Now, nobody is claiming the Sherman was a bad tank, in fact it was pretty decent, just that it's intended role wasn't direct engagement with the ridiculously oversized Axis tanks.
>>25372415The 2 pounder was an acceptably good early war gun. That's why later models of tank had a 6 pounder. But for the time it was made, the 2 pounder could threaten and kill all of the german tanks, particularly with squeezebores.>>25372352By that logic, every tank was flawed seriously in some respect. It wasn't a bad design. The gun configuration could have done with a bit more foresight, but the tank in general wasn't bad at all. Decent armour and engine, guns could do the job, decent visibility. Could have done with protected ammo, but at the time not that many tanks had it anyway, so that's more of an era thing.
>>25372545Ahh American TDs. Pic related, best tank of the war.>>25372737For a moment I thought those were were tally marks and loled.
>>25372717>75mmBecause the 76mm didn't existlets just ignore the 76mm and maybe it will go away
>>25372818Nah, that's "Zimmerit" coating. The Germans were kinda afraid of losing their tanks to infantery-held magnetic charges, so they has a coat of anti-magnetic paste put on their tank.Mostly wasted efforts, but yeah...
>>25372737... then just call it the fucking panther?
>>25372737Wait, wait, you're comparing a heavy tank to a medium tank? Get out, motherfucker. Get the fuck out. GET OUT. GET OUT. GET OUT. I AM SO DONE WITH THAT STUPID FUCKING CONVERSTAION, GET OUT, DIE DIEDIESO MAD
>>25372860The 76 mm had some problems, including too big recoil needing the adaptation of a muzzle brake. It was present, yes, but only became standard and widespread after the battle of the Bulge... (at which point it was a pointless exercice considering Germany's state, but better safe than sorry!)
>>25372876Not that guy, but if we follow German classification, the Panther IS a medium tank.
>>25372860If someone insists the 75mm was good against IVs, I will talk about 75mms and IVs, not 76mm guns that were introduced when the IV was no longer the most dangerous threat.
>>25372876Just so you know, you're not arguing with the original Anon but someone else.
>>25372936Still the most numerous threat, though.
>>25373753Nope, that was the StuG.