You are Ssen, a Lamia raised by a human Paladin who adopted you after killing the ones who birthed you. You are grown now, and Father has passed on. After a great deal of work, you have become a Paladin like your Father, and now take up his duties. You are accompanied by your best friend from childhood, the insect druid Tricia; Mage, a magic user who ran away from his family of cannibal raiders known as the Ghouls (Yes, his name is Mage. It was his idea); Persephone, a 22-year old thief/ex-guerllia fighter (She goes by Peri), and Mari, a 13-year old prodigy scholar/now sniper, who has her mind and soul trapped within Peri's body; and Lea, a deeply religious musician/martial artist, trained by her father, a famous trainer for arena fighters, she's covered from her mouth down in bandages to hide the horrific state her body has become thanks to the 'cures' that saved her from cancer.Your journey continues...( Opening theme song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvZgKRAacFc )http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Lamia%20Quest
"Every time? Does that mean you've seen them or something like them around before?"Granny nods. "Three times, the last one was your father. I only saw the aftermath. Earlier was an attempt at a bell...that might have worked on Citadel...but the Humors had a counter for that. Before that was a spear...my spear. It didn't work.""What would you recommend for a metal?""Right now? Steel. Your father's sword is quicksilver, but that's not easy to get. Even more so here, with goods at a premium, and you can't get the stuff that's mined for Citadel, steel for now, and look at quicksilver when you reach Bronze Peak.""Mage was talking about developing a translation spell. His original idea was based on ghoul magic, but he might be able to modify it into a personal communication spell, or with enough luck something for mass communication. Any ideas that might help there?"She goes to a cabinet and gets a book. "This is something he should read. It's something I got from some people from the Phoenix Empire. It's how they subjugated their own tribes. They reduce their language to babble, and then replace it with their own tongue. Maybe your little reverse-magic-engineer-man can alter it."
>>23903772"What was the 'counter' the dramatae used for the bell? How did that work?Also, now that you mention it, I have a phoenix empire princess in my wagon train. I've been learning the language, so as to be able to use their records to fill the dark spots in our own. If you wanted, I could tell her about you. But only if you wanted."
>>23903772>Granny nods. "Three times, the last one was your father. I only saw the aftermath. Earlier was an attempt at a bell...that might have worked on Citadel...but the Humors had a counter for that. Before that was a spear...my spear. It didn't work.""What did the Humors do against the bell?"> "Right now? Steel. Your father's sword is quicksilver, but that's not easy to get. Even more so here, with goods at a premium, and you can't get the stuff that's mined for Citadel, steel for now, and look at quicksilver when you reach Bronze Peak."I wonder if we could mount the sword and turn it into something like a glaive? Probably not a good idea, though; steel should be fine for now.> She goes to a cabinet and gets a book. "This is something he should read. It's something I got from some people from the Phoenix Empire. It's how they subjugated their own tribes. They reduce their language to babble, and then replace it with their own tongue. Maybe your little reverse-magic-engineer-man can alter it.""Babble? Do you mean they lost the ability to speak their original tongue?"(Suddenly laughing at having First Stone Hall full of people who can only speak lizard. That'd give them a new perspective right quick.)
>>23903769Lets have whatshisface improve the gun.thenthe for cereal herewe melt the coins down into bullets.
>>23903806>Also, now that you mention it, I have a phoenix empire princess in my wagon train. I've been learning the language, so as to be able to use their records to fill the dark spots in our own. If you wanted, I could tell her about you. But only if you wanted."Not the last bit of this, but we should definitely talk to her about what Mumei told us, about the one who cages with fear and its daughter who cages with pleasure, and what happened to the Phoenix Empire.
>>23903811I really don't see us shooting Citadel into submission. As awesome as Alucard-Ssen is, sanctified bullets from an oversized handgun won't solve our problems.
>>23903836No but filling those masked dickholes with holy slugs sounds like a good plan to me.
>>23903836No, but if we got a few handguns, we would have an alternative for mid ranged combat to our bow that ALSO allows us to use a sword or spear at the same time.Pistol+melee weapon is top tier for skirmishing.
>>23903772"What 'counter' did the humors use on the bell? Musicians and plays or something?""No," She shakes her head as she puts the weapons away. "They've got an assortment of artifacts and weapons, not to mention an assortment of spells...I'm amazed that you managed to kill one...sort of." She smiled. "I hope it hurt when Rage died at Peace's hand. The Fifth told me."She clears herself off and hugs you. "Thank you for coming back out of Citadel the same. I've seen others fail that test."
>>23903848For all we know they can dodge bullets. Jackasses seem that OP.
>>23903772What do you think a lantern forged from these coins would do? I think the legends of the first Lightbringers mentioned such a lantern. Are all the Dramatae just really individually powerful, or is it more of a side-effect of having Citadel's full and undivided support?
>>23903808>(Suddenly laughing at having First Stone Hall full of people who can only speak lizard. That'd give them a new perspective right quick.)OK, crazier idea. How insane would it be to find a spell to turn a person *into* a Lamia, either for a long duration or permanently? Fitting punishment for the prisoner topside, no?
>>23903854Hug her back."Citadel was harder than I thought. Easily the most dangerous place I've been in."
>>23903868>punishment>being made into our race>and also immortal>a punishmentPlease don't do this.
>>23903883Yeah, poor choice of words on my part. But I'm talking more the "slither a mile in their skin" kind of life lesson. Let them deal with what it's like being the one that gets discriminated against; see what it feels like. Worst case they end up with a karmic death at the hands of one of their fellows; best case they end up reformed.
>>23903854hug her back"My friends wouldn't have without a helping hand."
>>23903868That would just be playing into the image that the Purists have painted for Ssen. Not to mention that subjecting a prisoner to transformative magics really isn't good conduct. It would probably be better to focus on having Mage develop a spell that allows Lizardmen to be understood verbally by humans.
>>23903806"Also, now that you mention it, I have a phoenix empire princess in my wagon train. I've been learning the language, so as to be able to use their records to fill the dark spots in our own.""Really? And she didn't run in terror at the sight of you?" She laughs. "I've met a few lost birds from the Empire...they never take well to me for some reason." She winks. "They say that the Dragon Who Was Of Shadow ruled their land too, once."Granny pauses and sighs. "Huh, well...are they free now?""No, their 'Citadel' is run by their rules as a place of pure Order."Granny winces. "It never really changes does it? We break our cages to find that we've already built another."
>>23903913> That would just be playing into the image that the Purists have painted for Ssen. Not to mention that subjecting a prisoner to transformative magics really isn't good conduct. ...as opposed to killing them? Almost any alternative is kinder.> It would probably be better to focus on having Mage develop a spell that allows Lizardmen to be understood verbally by humans.Yeah, fair enough; that's definitely the real problem here. It just felt too karmically interesting not to mention. Consider the suggestion withdrawn.
>>23903854return the hug and give her a lamia toothed grin "Of course I came back the same, It's the duty and honor of the Caligo Clarius to shine the light within the darkest of the Darkness. Besides, I still have a promise to you to make good on. That whelpling of yours won't watch out for themselves."
>>23903854> She clears herself off and hugs you. "Thank you for coming back out of Citadel the same. I've seen others fail that test."Hug back. "I thought I knew what darkness would be like. I never thought darkness could be blinding."
>>23903914"I think we'll be dealing with the remains of the citadel long, long after it's defeated. Heck, we're still dealing with the aftershock of the dragon, some seven ages later.
>>23903937You hug her back. "I thought I knew what darkness would be like. I never thought darkness could be blinding.""It's always worse than we think.""But of course I came back the same! It's the duty and honor of the Caligo Clarius to shine the light within the darkest of the Darkness. Besides, I still have a promise to you to make good on. That whelpling of yours won't watch out for themselves."Granny laughs. "One day little worm, one day."
>>23903990There's only one other thing I think we have left to ask her. We never did ask her her name.
>>23903990>>23904014I'll give it some dialogue"Well, I've been asking you a big pile of questions today. I hope it's not too taxing, but I have another, pretty big one.What's your name?"Only say this if she didn't give us her name already. Because if she did, fuck.
>>23903990"Well, until that day it hardly feels right calling you Granny; I look forward to seeing your grandchildren someday, but until then, you never did tell us your name."
>>23903990"Granny...what's your name?" You ask.Granny pauses with her back to you. "I've had a lot over the ages, I change them when they get too heavy with memories and loves." She sighs. "But I was the elder sister when we were found in the sands, and I learned to read first and tell my sisters stories...so the members of the Caligo Clarus gave me my first name. Scheherazade." She says. "You may call me that."She hands you a sealed letter. "If you need the royal buffoon to behave himself, give him this. Save it as a trump."
>>23904042> Only say this if she didn't give us her name already. Because if she did, fuck.She didn't, no. We're the one who originally started calling her Granny:http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/23725498/#p23730134> "You talk a lot, Granny." You say.>> "Worm, I'm old enough to be your great-great-great-great-Grandmother's ancestor." She says.And after that point we, and Echo, always referred to her as Granny.
>>23904070"Do I want to know what it is?"Also: Scheherazade. It came from the clarigo. Did Ssen come from the clarigo? Or are real lamia names just a lot easier?
>>23904070> She hands you a sealed letter. "If you need the royal buffoon to behave himself, give him this. Save it as a trump.""How did you happen to learn that Isen was more than just a *common* buffoon? And dare I ask what could possibly quell his audacity?"And:"Thank you for the lessons. All of them."
>>23904131Seconding all this.
>>23904131this, I am kind of curious what is in that letter
>>23904070To be fair, if this place really is Citadel influence free and to succeed, we really ought to have Avery and Scheherazade meet before we leave. We need EVERYONE on the same page before we head out. If we can trust anyone with discretion in this town, he's the one.
Did she ever ask us how we GOT this poison wound?Did we tell her what happened in citadel?Does she even want to know?
>>23904157She probably correctly assumed it involved the buffoon. Probably to some extent.I doubt it, she's passed the torch for all that nonsense to the next generation: us.
>>23904156I'm a little concerned about Avery at this point; he's showing some tendencies towards the iron fist that led to the downfall of the Phoenix Empire. I think we trust him more than most, but not with something this big for now. Let's get that translation spell going, and see if we can get Avery and *any* Lamia talking.>>23904157The whole continent seems to have heard of the Paladin Serpent at this point; she probably heard the news.
>>23904070"Before I go, I think that the Lantern was used against the Dragon in the form of the coins. When I gave my amulet to someone, they were freed from the Citadel's influence a little. If all the coins had this trait..."
>>23904195Avery's a trustworthy guy but we have to remember that he's a redstone. At the end of the day, his solutions to problems will involve sharp blades and tight ropes. Without us guiding him, anyway.
>>23904201It was turned into the coins around the creation of Citadel, some time after the Dragon. Probably in that suspicious gap in the historical record.And I think if she knew anything more about that period of history she'd have told us.
>>23904070>>23904131"How did you happen to learn that Isen was more than just a *common* buffoon? And dare I ask what could possibly quell his audacity?""I know enough of family history and patterns to recognize the face of a Newgate when I see one. Also, I saw how he managed those people he rescued during the attack. The boy's a crap ruler, but he's a fine example of a king. As for what I'm offering...well...a woman should have a few secrets, shouldn't she?" She winks. "I figure that if you need him to stay put, the same way I gained his silence should suffice. He's pathetically predictable...but he has good taste.""I should get you and Paladin Avery to speak once." You say.Scheherazade shakes her head. "I can't risk it, he's too close to Citadel and the Humors, and he's not one of us, or one of your people, or the buffoon and his ego, or the girl devoted to him. All he needs is one slip, or to step into Citadel, and I am found. I'm sorry. I agree that it's a good idea, but I cannot at the moment. They would burn this place to the ground again, if they could be rid of me."You nod. "Thank you for the lessons. All of them."She hugs you again and kisses you on the head. "Be safe, little worm."Getting a polearm and a spear made of steel isn't too hard. Avery is authorized to grant you your stipend as a Paladin, but the less you take the more grateful he is. Still some steel work isn't overly costly.Also, the others have been putting the Watchtower/Beacon/Lumin Point (Everyone's bickering on the name) together and it actually is starting to look kind of nice. Sophie even swung by, and helped pain the emblem right above the door.Options---See the purist Kid---Find Isen, Tara, and Mumei (NOTE: Do this and the kid get's his head chopped off. No muss, no fuss.)
>>23904223Was it really? Or is that just a theory?They FOUND the Lantern like this, remember. After the Fifth guided them to it. How does anyone know its history if its been covered up?
>>23904237That's the history as we have heard it and seen it written. We don't know anything for certain, we just have more confidence in some bits than others. And yeah, the Lantern is definitely one of the fuzzy bits.>>23904236I don't see much choice here. Let's see the purist kid before he gets the red queen treatment; he might still, but let's learn what we can, and perhaps see if any other options seem reasonable.
>>23904236Let's see the kid. I'd like to get his take before the axeman does.What do the rest of the group think about our new weapons? also, OUR VEINS AND HAIR ARE BOTH SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER. Let's tell everyone soon as we are done talking to the kid.
>>23904236You also give Mage the book from the Empire, and he agrees to get to work on bodging a spell that could work like the Ghoul Spell and the Empire Spell without all the evil."It may take a few days." Mage says. You hear the sound of Ambrose cursing as a bookshelf spills its contents onto the ground. "Better give it a week."
>>23904236>See the Purist kidHe might just be an impressionable and/or fearful person who was swayed by an exceptionally charismatic asshole. Or not. Either way, it's a good way to get some insight into what the Purists are truly aiming for.We can also confide with Avery that the Purist movement might just be a distraction for something else.
>>23904278>distraction...Do we kknow where Mages sister is?
sister is in a Asylum.
>>23904276>>23904272Everyone likes your new ensemble.There's a catch though.The pike and shield, the bow, or Father's sword. You can't carry all three at once.Also everyone's very glad to see you nearly back to normal. Tricia especially gives you a tight hug and kiss and promises to go thank 'Granny' in person herself when she has a moment.
>>23904289That was more than three months ago.
>>23904291Ditch the shield.TWO WEAPON FIGHTAN
>>23904289An asylum in White Tree. Mage visited her when you were there. They didn't say anything to each other. It was a little after that that Mage asked if he could use Patrick as his last name.
>>23904301sword on the back, shield on the arm. pike on the other arm. problem solvedSowrd as a backup weapon.
>>23904301Sword and shield. Classic.
sword and bow on the back*
>>23904291Can we do Pike/Shield/Bow?
>>23904236>Getting a polearm and a spear made of steel isn't too hard. Avery is authorized to grant you your stipend as a Paladin, but the less you take the more grateful he is. Still some steel work isn't overly costly.Polearm and shield?>>23904282...oh, hell, that's a scary thought. Entirely too simple, though; somehow I don't think our lives are so simple that we can just kill some figurehead to solve most of the problems.>>23904291Could we get a quick ability rundown, as inhttp://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/23768347/#p23776469?Also, does the pike really work best with a shield, or could we use it more effectively without one?
>>23904308>bow Problem not solved.
>>23904291Do the pike and sword really make any sense to carry together? Does how well the pike fits us naturally make it as effective or more so as the sword? Even up close, or is the sword better for that? Barring some amazing revelation from hearing our current skills, I don't think carrying both pike and sword makes sense, in which case I think we want the pike/shield and bow (melee and ranged).
>>23904320if its a short spear then it works with shield, but if its something like a halberd or longspear, thats a 2h weaponpersonally perfer sword/shield/bow, at least until we can get a more compact ranged weapon(like a brace of pistols, one shot then drop em till the fight is over)
>>23904276>"It may take a few days." Mage says. You hear the sound of Ambrose cursing as a bookshelf spills its contents onto the ground. "Better give it a week."Make sure he works with Granny to practice, since she's the only one other than us that speaks both languages fluently.
>>23904325Have we ever actually hit anything with that bow?Also if it comes down to it we can give the sword to another member of our party. Maybe. Or use it as the head of the spear somehow as some sort of longsword naginata thing?
>>23904320>>23904320>Does the pike really work best with a shield, or could we use it more effectively without one?You do get a bonus if you use it without a shield, but you lose your armor boost.New Skills:Shield BonusPike +12h Pike +2Pike/ConstrictPierce (Damage & Armor)Double sweep (Need Pike, Damage & Turn loss)
>>23904360tons of stuff, hell our first fight we stuck two arrows in a bossghoul's throat, and one in his knee.
>>23904360>Have we ever actually hit anything with that bow?Mage's Uncle
>>23904372>>23904377Anything after that? Maybe its just selective memory but I recall a lot of missed shots...
>>23904369So, if we *don't* use a shield, for now the pike is exactly as effective as Father's sword. How effectively can we use the sword with a shield? Presumably not as much, since we didn't practice that with Granny (though perhaps we should). So, it sounds like a wash right now, and it's just a question of what we want to focus on long-term (presumably pike is easier to get better with since it's "natural" for us)?I'd argue for sword/shield if it's more effective than pike/shield, or pike/shield if it's equally effective. Bow either way.
Alright if we are down to three I want the pike, shield and bow. I like our bow, it gives us range.>>23904388thats because the dice hate us. We hit on 12 with our bow.
>>23904369>Shield BonusI take it that bonus lowers chance to be hit? By how much?
>>23904392>I'd argue for sword/shield if it's more effective than pike/shield, or pike/shield if it's equally effective. Bow either way.Scratch that, I just re-read pierce. Pike/shield/bow, definitely. See if one of our other party members who uses a sword would be more effective with a quicksilver sword.
I still think we should try to use Fathers sword in some way in the making of our spear. Both for sentimental reasons and because the steel is apparently really good.
>>23904388yea, we shot other stuff, the Insect things from Purple Sands, and other ghouls.we even specifically trained to shoot our bow and tail attack in the same turn
>>23904398Right now, 1
>>23904438thats pretty damn good.
Can we pull off serpent strikes? Is that an ability of ours?
>>23904438Not bad at all.Does that bonus work with the sword?
>>23904438Yeah pike/shield/bow all the way.Hang the old sword in our new base. Let it watch over it.
>>23904428That's possible, actually. You CAN make a quicksilver pike, and use the remaining metal to reinforce a shield with it. Give a +1 bonus to defense and weapon attacks with it if you do this.But that means melting down Father's sword.
>>23904461>>23904369>Pike/ConstrictSeems to be.
>>23904475>melting down father's swordCan we just... use it as a glaivehead? Or is it straight up the wrong shape?
>>23904475Even if its form is different, it is still ultimately the same blade.
>>23904475We'll find some other source of the metal. Father's sword may not be on our hip, but we won't o that.
>>23904475Yeah I really don't want to do that. If Bronze peak has the metal we can wait.
>>23904480pierce is also a serpent aided skill I imagine. snake strike with pike attached.>>23904475... at first I was like no... but then... it would allow us to confinue carrying his sword around. Do it.
>>23904428We can get a quicksilver pike in Bronze Peak. And the ability to pierce armor should prove quite useful. Sentiment is not a good reason to be less effective; Granny made a point of it:http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/23894372/#p23903146> She pulls out an old shield and a simple spear. "Here...time you learned a weapon of your own. Your Father's shoulders aren't for you to curl around forever.">>23904475Huh, I wouldn't have expected enough metal there. Carrying around his sword in pike form seems too perfect not to do. Sentiment satisfied. Assuming that there's no chance of the blacksmith screwing this up.
I know it's late, but whoa, since when did >I hope it hurt when Rage died at Peace's hand. The Fifth told me.happen? Did I miss something here?
>>23904488Wrong shape. It needs to be melted down and recast. Thankfully Quicksilver can do that without complications.But again, it's destroying Father's sword and making it into Your Glaive. (Or pike or whatever you decide on)
>>23904507When we saved Stone Hall. Off screen death.
>>23904512We'll wait. But when the time comes to make our polearm, I vote Lucerne Hammer
>>23904512>But again, it's destroying Father's sword and making it into Your Glaive. (Or pike or whatever you decide on)Granny specifically recommended a halberd or pike. We should go with one of those.
>>23904526I say we use a spear. Something for stabbing. We should start using the spear/shield now. And replace the bow with a bandolier of pistols if at all possible later on.Serpent strike: the dragooning.
>>23904512small correctionpikes are huge, ie 3-7 meters long, not something used for individual combatif anything it would be a standard spear if its small enough to be handled with 1 hand.
>>23904543A lucerne hammer can stab perfectly well. it's got the spike atop and the hook on the back, just like a halberd, but with the axeblade replaced by a warhammer
>>23904512Okay, so bow/shield/polearm. (Honestly I'm not going to make a giant difference between the different ones for the sake of my own sanity. So let's just go with Pike because that's easy to type.)Now for the next important question.What's the design on the shield?
I like the halberd idea. As far as sentimentality father has left plenty of things to remember him by. His words, his medallion, the stone in our paladin circlet and his love. His sword is a weapon. >>23904561we aren't the strength type though. We're all about speed.
>>23904557Okay then never mind what I said about the pikes because I know nothing about those weapons.
>>23904561I specified a spear. As in, something with no shit sticking off the side, so we can impale folks. If impalement isn't super cool to you, then sure, we can add a hammer to it.
>>23904568father's family crest.
>>23904568Gregory's Caligo Clarus motif, to match the armor we'll have him make for us as soon as possible. (Still liking the idea of incorporating some part of Father's armor into that as well rather than carrying around two sets just because of nostalgia.)
>>23904568Caligo Clarus emblem. No question.Unless we know our own coat of arms?
>>23904590We're going to have him re-work our armor with a caligo clarus symbology and more metal. Right?
>>23904585Assuming we use anything more elaborate than a pointy stick, there should be space on the polearm for the Patrick family crest, and then we could use the Caligo Clarus emblem on the shield.
>>23904592Caligo Clarus emblem on the shield? Tabard with coat of arms?
>>23904608Or should that be the other way around.
>>23904608"The light is my shield" and keeping our family close to heart.I like it.
>>23904600Okay, so a spear and the Caligo Clarus symbol. Gregory is working on them and spiffing up your new armor as well.Mage is working with Granny on the Babel spell.Do you want to take someone else with you to see the Purist Kid, and if so, who?
>>23904568Family crest. we are already having armor done in the Caligo Clarus theme.
>>23904618>the light is my shieldGoddamnit, you sold me.
Lea, shes not our lover. She can spot any fallacies in the scripture. She knows it better then us.
>>23904620>new armorYou mean old armor that is being upgraded, right?>Take someone with youNot for this, not for a confession, no. I don't think so.
>>23904236>As for what I'm offering...well...a woman should have a few secrets, shouldn't she?" She winks. "I figure that if you need him to stay put, the same way I gained his silence should suffice. He's pathetically predictable...but he has good taste.She just gave us a 'sex with Granny' coupon, didn't she?
>>23904618Good call.>>23904620Hmmm. I almost wonder if we should send someone other than Ssen, just because a non-lizardfolk might have better luck actually talking to him without provoking a reaction. But meh.>>23904633This.
>>23904637is it wrong of me to want to cash that in ourselves
>>23904620My gut says Lea but i fear she may be too preachy.Peri, i suspect, could work the sympathy angle, what with being a reformed terrorist, herself.
>>23904648I think Lea can manage discretion, if we talk to her in advance and make sure she doesn't react to anything with "Blasphemy!". We want to learn, *then* react.You have a point with the "mercenary/freedom fighter" angle, though. But taking three people along might be a bit much; we don't want to intimidate him.Would it be crazy to send Lea and Peri, and *not* Ssen?
>>23904647If you and Tricia catch her in a good mood...or drunk...who knows what the light will show, eh?
>>23904667Not at all. We're one of the primary objects of hate. He might clam up with us there.
>>23904684So you just want to send Peri/Mari and Lea, and you don't go?Just so you know, this leaves in in their hands, and they're okay with this ending with the headsman after their chat.Do you have any specific orders to give them?
>>23904684Well, if his hate is *that* blinding, we probably won't get much out of him anyway. And if he's redeemable, having us around could help put a face to it.>>23904698Hmmm. If they're not as inclined as us to try to see if there's some human left in him, I think we need to go.
>>23904698I want ssen to go. But don't have her be face to face with the prisoner.She should listen in beyond visual range. This isn't a confession if it's lea and perimeri.
>>23904708>>23904698To add. See if they can get any info out of him.
>>23904712Actually, fuck what I just said.Go. Yourself. Maybe bring lea so she can factcheck light facts.
>>23904712That's not a bad idea. We can always join the conversation if it seems prudent.
I'm still digging through lists of polearms trying to figure out the correct name for the weapon depicted in https:images/1364362537478.jpg .
>>23904723"So, we talk to her and you hang back?" Mari asks."Sounds like a plan." Peri says."Poor boy, so lost, and his head filled with heretical confusion and darkness." Lea sighs. "Shame it's not something that I can just punch out of him.""Did Lea just make a joke?" Mari asks."Our brain must be finally melting." Peri says.Lea does a quite un-holy hand gesture."So, how are we going to open this, good watch/ bad watch, or crazy dual minded Caligo Clarus and zealous bandaged Caligo Clarus?" Mari asks."A little labored." Peri says."Spare me." Mari says."ANYWAY...what do you want us to say Ssen?" Lea asks.
>>23904755Ranseur or Partisan
>>23904698Well, if you insist on orders for them:Get information first. Find out if he has any reasonable complaints, or if it's all just propaganda.
>>23904778"We're trying to find out two things. We want to know as much about First Stone Hall as possible, though you'll probably get more by getting him to talk than by interrogating him. Do they have any real substance beyond blind hate? Any real grievances, real or imagined? Lea, you need to figure out what they've perverted in the Teachings. But don't react too much to it, or he'll clam up. Peri, I was hoping you could understand him a bit because of your experience as a...freedom fighter.And second, I want to know if there's any humanity left in him. Is he really irredeemably evil, or is he a kid that got caught up in a movement that sounded appealing, or somewhere inbetween?"
>>23904778"Just try to find out who's leading this lot. Where' they're based out of. What this 'new teachings' really is. Stuff of that matter if you could. Also, find out if they actually have some type of grievances, real or not."
>>23904778>>23904782"Find out why he did it. What things does he think the lizards are responsible for? Find out his side of the story, before we run out of time to ask.
>>23904837Yeah, "what does he think the lizards are responsible for" is a good way of putting it. Do they think the lizards are going to eat their children, like Princess Mumei did? Do they have some economic or social reason to not want them around? Is the language thing a core problem and fixing it would make a massive difference? Or do they just hate for no good reason at all other than inertia or the agenda of whatever charismatic leader they have?
>>23904782>>23904812"We're trying to find out two things. We want to know as much about First Stone Hall as possible, though you'll probably get more by getting him to talk than by interrogating him. Do they have any real substance beyond blind hate? Any real grievances, real or imagined? Lea, you need to figure out what they've perverted in the Teachings. But don't react too much to it, or he'll clam up. Peri, I was hoping you could understand him a bit because of your experience as a...freedom fighter.""And second, I want to know if there's any humanity left in him. Is he really irredeemably evil, or is he a kid that got caught up in a movement that sounded appealing, or somewhere inbetween?Finally, we need names of the people leading the purists, First Stone Hall, and this new church."The pair nod. You all head into the cells and you hang back around the corner. It's easy to spot the Purist kid from the other regular purse takers, drunks, and other cell regulars.He's the one crying."Hello." Lea says."Please...please...I don't want to die!" He sobs. "I don't want to die!"Peri/Mari frown. "Oh now I just feel bad." She mutters."Do you know who we are?" Lea asks softly."Y-y-yes.""We're not here to kill you." Lea says. "We just want to know what happened. Where were you when the ghouls attacked?""We lived outside the city. A town called Lamsbreath. We worked there. Dad was a field hand."One of the little farming towns that supplies Stone Hall."We went to the refugee camps, because it was safer there. Then it was over, and we come back, and then...then Dad lost his job to one of those fucking lizards!" He banged on the cage door. "He...look, okay so...so he liked a bottle now and again. Is that a crime? Is that grounds enough for someone to give your life over to a monster?!"Lea and Peri look at each other. "No." Peri says. "No I think it's reason to be mad."
>>23904900Ah, the terrible sound of economic weight causing people to turn to crime.
>>23904900I don't believe the kid could be this good an actor; this *seems* genuine, though I could go for a Sense Motive if that's an option.And yeah, sounds like we're talking non-trivial problems here, though that doesn't rule out a figurehead pulling them together and whipping them into a frenzy.
>>23904900"You see your loved ones get bossed around or suffer, and those at the top say that's how it is, so you have to eat that shit and smile while you do it." Peri shakes her head. "Plenty of reason to be mad.""Yeah, so now we're homeless...and we go looking for work but...Dad...he...it's the lizard's fault you know! He'd be out there working and sober, if it weren't for them!" He sobs. "I don't want to die! Please, I just want to go home!""You tried to kill us." Lea says. "Murder innocent travelers.""It's not a sin to purge the world of Monsters. That's what Father Billings says. He says that...that if I kill a monster, then my place by His Side in His Light is guaranteed!"You hear the irritation in Lea's voice. "Straight to his side? No journey in His Light, but right to him?!""Yes! He says there are special ways to gain his favor above others and one way is to ki-"BANG!You then see Peri/Mari drag Lea back around the corner. "Okay...someone needs to calm down.""That...that...there's so many...the sheer heresy and violation of EVERY Teaching!" Lea fumes.You've never seen her this mad before.
Ah the good old they are taking our jobs bit.
>>23904940(The bang was Lea punching the jail bars...she probably made a dent)
>>23904900For now, lets just let the kid talk. He sounds like he wants to vent. We may get more out of him that we want without asking.
>>23904940Okay. We learned something.One: That they have legitimate economic concerns involving the scarcity of work forcing poor quality workers out of employment.Two: Some asshole is spreading bullshit that is SUPER HERETICAL.
>>23904940Lea confirmed for FuklawLet's make sure she didn't wreck her hand. Don't say anything though, a 3rd voice would just tip the kid off.
>>23904940Father Billings, huh? And this is classic cultspeak; it's hard to fight misinformation when the misinformation sounds so much better and more appealing than the truth.>>23904951This, for the moment. Let Peri/Mari work with this for a bit. But when we've got a bit more information, I think he needs a chat with one of his "Monsters".
>>23904940What a joke. As far as I'm concern we got what we needed. A name and their so called reason.Let Paladin Avery deal with him from here on out.
>>23904980Yes, let's deal with cults by killing all the cultists to the last man; they can't possibly be human, and fallible, and convinced by a silver tongue and promises of making their lives better.
>>23904980>so called reasonThere are enough workers in the environment now that they are competing for the same employment, along with the lack of citadel's magical employment field. Some people are going to be starving and homeless by now. It's a legitimate economic concern, and a known symptom of it is outbreaks of violent crime.
>>23904980Avery would just off the kid. A bit more than some farmboy swept up in a movement by some fucker that brought out honor, glory, and a place at His Side, and all the other nice words that put a gloss on genocide.
>>23904996A bit more than the kid deserves that is
>>23904940Will this end in a Pheonix Wright style theological debate between Lead and Billings?"Objection! Lightbringer 1:28 CLEARLY states that...""Ah, but Archpriest Canterbury's translation of the text has a quite different context...""Irrelevant. The meaning of the passage is clearly..."
>>23904980>>23904995Anyway, my plan is bring the bossman to trial for super heresy. Convince someone to offer amnesty to the rest of the people. Find employment and labor for them.Anyone still remaining who is violent, well, we did our best.
>>23905006Well, we could always use that teacher idea from a while ago...
>>23904993>>23904995>>23904996And the kid screwed up and broke the law.Yes the ligament reason the economic field. But I referring to the bullshit one of killing 'monsters' to go to his side one or lights side.End of the day. He fucked up. He'll have to pay the price.
>>23905026Yes, sadly we live in a setting where things like highwaymen exist, and they get strong, strong penalties.I feel just terrible about it though.
Possible speech if we ever decide to talk to him"My father spent his life battling Monsters both those that wore human skin and otherwise. But that was merely part of his journey as a Paladin. He preached. He heard confessions, he did his best to bring the Light to all he could. And when he thought he failed he left the Paladins. He was at his darkest but he did not abandon the Light. He took a job to kill some feral Lamia. They were my mothers. After killing them he found me and saw not a monster but a child. And brought himself back into the Light and me along with him. To walk in His Light is to struggle against life itself. For life can be dark and cold. But his Light will always warm you. By listening to Father Billings that there is an easier way is to walk in the darkness and never leave."
>>23905026>>23905040Just to assuage your current anger? We are better than that. There is another way.
>>23904995>There are enough workers in the environment now that they are competing for the same employment, along with the lack of citadel's magical employment field. Some people are going to be starving and homeless by now.In theory, there aren't just twice as many people, there should be nearly twice as many jobs too. The lizardfolk had a society to begin with, and so did the humans.>>23905026We tried desperately to find some humanity left in *Odette*, and she tried to engineer the execution of innocent people.This guy didn't kill anyone, and as far as we know he might not even have attacked anyone other than us. And we have the power to forgive that. Do it personally; show him that his "Monsters" have the capacity for forgiveness. See if that makes him open to hearing more about the true Teachings. If we can't save this guy, who *can* we save?
>>23905026He's still just a kid who got in over his head.I say we make an example out of him.Show the rest of them that we're willing to be forgiving and most of all helpful with those who turn themselves. Train them with useful skills that will help them get jobs.More flies with honey than vinegar, after all.
>>23904940At this rate, he's going to go to the Light a bigot and a killer and I really can't think of a way to stop it.We have a name now though. I believe it's time for a pleasant chat with this Father Billings.
>>23904972Lea's hand is fine, if very very sore. Peri/Mari go back in."So, are your parents in First Stone Hall?""Yeah." He says, sniffing. "It's lousy though.""Oh?" Peri asks."There's never enough food, and the outhouses stink, and everyone has to sleep in these big tents." He says. "I hate it, and Mom hates it. Dad says we have to stay there, because that's where the good people belong, and our suffering makes us more holy in His Eyes."Lea makes a choking sound. You order her out of the room. "Billings is MINE!" She whispers to you."Did your Dad find work there?""Kinda...well...it's hard you know. He's...he's sick a lot. So he has to rest, and Mom does what she can but...but she's Mom. That's why I signed up to be a rider. You go out on three good raids and you can get your own private tent.""Noble." Peri says. You hear the sound of her sitting down and one of her armor clasps coming undone. "Sorry, long day. So, you fought amazingly well, almost killed that lamia.""Yeah, well. Sally trains us really really hard. She's really nice." He says. "I'd...i'd do anything for her?""Really?""Yeah...she finds the best boys and she...I mean if we're good and we impress her she..."There's a pause, you think the kid might be whispering to Peri."One moment..." Peri gets up from her position and walks to you."I need a bucket to vomit in. Now." Mari looks sick. "Stupid kids, they think...oh may the Darkness take all of these people." She shudders. "The older riders must have been in the minority. The younger ones are trained by these...people...that reward skill and savagery with...fuck it, we're killing all of them. I'm with Avery on this."
>>23905053No, highwaymen aren't killed to assuage anger. Not at all.It's because highwaymen are not acceptable whatsoever. The policy for them, in the majority of historical settings as far as I am aware, was death, since they were all murderers at the least.Like pirates.It's unfortunate I said.
>>23905056>if we can't save this guy, who can we save?I think we might, MIGHT be able to save his soul.Legally? I don't think there's much we can do to save him. Does this legal system have dropped charges? Can you drop charges when they are a thing like highwaymanship? I do not know.
>>23905064...aaaand there we have it. A totally fucked up cult talking advantage of people in need.
>>23905026You can say that if you like, but ultimately you're turning around all of the work that we've done. This is about making things better, not just putting down rebellion. This will fail if we don't do the right thing.If we can fix the economics, most of their reason to fight will be gone.
>>23905064"And if we do that, the Darkness will take more than just them. Damn it all."
sounds like the leaders deserve to die. The good father, this Sally. But first we need to make them the villians they in the eyes of those that follow them.
>>23905064Is it time to go in yet? I mean, both perimeri AND lea left the room because they couldn't take it any more.If neither of them can talk to him any more, then that leaves only us. And seeing how he reacts to us.
>>23905064So, First Stone Hall is horrible compared to Stone Hall; those kinds of conditions breed this kind of thing. It's not like there's a lack of space in Stone Hall for reasonable people. Forget going on raids to get your own tent; help rebuild a place to live and it's yours.>>23905081We're a Paladin, and we wield a lot of authority; we were told as much by Her Illuminated Self when we became a Paladin.>>23905093>>23905104These.>>23905107Yes, he needs to meet one of his monsters.
>>23905093This.Stop thinking with your brains and start thinking with your heart.
>>23905133I'm just saying we may not be able to get this guy cleared of charges without significant collateral damage, depending on our levels of legal clout and the highwaymanship laws and precidents.
>>23905115>So, First Stone Hall is horrible compared to Stone Hall; those kinds of conditions breed this kind of thing. It's not like there's a lack of space in Stone Hall for reasonable people. Forget going on raids to get your own tent; help rebuild a place to live and it's yours.And to elaborate on this a bit: it's not like there isn't enough food for everyone; if there wasn't, then they clearly need more working farmhands and others to fix that. Conditions might be a bit austere for a while, but they'll be a hell of a lot better than First Stone Hall.
>>23905144Paladins have a lot of clout. If he is repentant then we could probably commute his sentence in exchange for the information he gave us on the cult.
>>23905144Avery seemed more than willing to listen to us before. Let's assume for the moment that we have enough power here; if not, we'll deal with that when the time comes. Assuming we do, this guy is terribly misled, not irredeemably evil.Look: if we were raised by our birth parents, rather than our father, how would we have turned out? Evil?
>>23905115Can we go in and request the boy be taken into our Custody?Part of this resentment seems to be based on blaming them for how they live..I wonder how he'd react to seeing how the other half was forced to live.
>>23905068So, you're saying we should bow to the way things are? We have 17 threads showing that awesome works.What is awesome is removing the monsters training kids like this and giving them a life to live.Being a paladin means dispensing justice. Is it just for the boy to die for being scared?
>>23905160>evil?Super DUPER evil. I don't mind saving this guy and repenting him, if logistics and legality and morality permit.First, though, we have to see if he's even willing to repent.
>>23905103"And if we do that, the Darkness will take more than just them. Damn it all.""Donovan had more decency in him than these people." Peri mutters. "Alright, alright...so mindless heresy, leading an army of kids with drugs and sex, might as well go for the hat trick before we find these people and flay them alive."She takes a deep breath and goes back to the kid."So, was that your first raid?""No." He says. "I did another. It was amazing.""Oh?""Yeah, we liberated some feed and flour from these traitors and two lizards." He sighed. "Mom was really proud of me and Sally, she had one of her helpers...well...she had her give me a-""I can guess." Peri says. "So, I'm assuming you got to eat that night then, right?""No, Lord Gammar took the food and divided it evenly upon everyone. He makes sure that everyone gets a fair share." The kid says. "He's good like that, much more fair than that short legs who makes everyone suffer.""Sounds like a great man," Peri takes a breath. "During that raid, what did you do?""I killed one of the monsters!" The kid says. "Ran him right through his scales, that's how I knew how to make that lamia monster bleed so well. I also helped beat one of the traitors. It's what they deserve, they can go to the darkness and wade in the filth for their wicked ways.""I...I see...thank you.""Please...does this mean I don't have to die? I don't want to die. I want to see my mom!" He says.Peri/Mari just walk away.She exhales. "Ssen, I think I hate taking confessions."
>>23905175Hey, if we have the clout, then we have the clout.If we don't, there is no way we could reshape the legal system quickly enough to spare this boy, and we'd have to pull off an interruption of execution like we did before.which I STILL feel bad about, since we were faking miracles of the light.
>>23905161We should show him the sewers where the lizardmen lived.
>>23905192OK, concrete proposal. I think it's time for us to talk to him. Yes?We can defer the life and death decision until at least partway through that conversation. But given our own personal history...
>>23905183i agree. time to confront him as one of his monsters.>>23905052my speech, probably needs something added on how he has a right to be mad but not to blame the lizards for his fathers misfortune. Hatred is never the answer. All it leads to is darkness.
>>23905192"Confessions aren't something you generally enjoy taking, no."Okay guys. He's a murderer. But he also gave us information on the chaplain.Is he repentant?
>>23905195Bingo.First though, we put the Fear of Ssen into him. Enter and approach Avery.
>>23905195Pretty much this. After taking confession. Kids young and stupid. We may just scare him straight. Pretty a victim of demonization stories.
>>23905224Avery is the dwarf.He is not here.
>>23905223we need to talk to him first, and show him how the lizardmen lived under the city.
>>23905237Then approach whoever can give the kid up to us for a bit of a walk.
>>23905192>"I killed one of the monsters!" The kid says. "Ran him right through his scales, that's how I knew how to make that lamia monster bleed so well. I also helped beat one of the traitors. It's what they deserve, they can go to the darkness and wade in the filth for their wicked ways."So you guys are just perfectly alright with just letting a murderer walk or do 'hard' time? No Justice for the dead at all?
>>23905221This, yeah, but we need to emphasize the parallelism between our story and his. How we would have turned out if we'd been taught differently.>>23905224>>23905227Yeah. Act as a translator. Introduce him to some kids. Maybe see if the lizardfolk he killed have a family he can see (from a distance).
>>23905256Mage's sister is in an asylum. She isn't dead. She killed people.
>>23905256That is another question we are trying to answer.Do all murderers deserve death? The light is infinitely forgiving, but should we be?
>>23905256Shit no, he'll be punished, we're gonna make sure he knows why he's being punished.
>>23905256oh he still deserves the ax. He just should be absolved before his Light before he dies.
>>23905256We aren't going to go off half cocked captain criminal scum.
>>23905266She deserves the axe or the rope.
>>23905256there are plenty of ways to punish him without having his head roll.remember, he is being brainwashed by a cult.
>>23905272Suppose Father found us only slightly older, and our parents had fed us people? This isn't a lovely little bright line with evil on one side and good on the other.>>23905284This.
Lets just try to get this kid alone and give him a real dose of reality and offer him some manner of redemption before the law does what it has to.
Right now he thinks he has only killed monsters. Because monsters and people are different things.He doesn't think he is a murderer.
here is how I feel about it.Repentant murderers go in the reform and repay their debt to society box.Unrepentant murderers get shanked right up.If at any time questioning whether they are repentant or unrepentant puts innocents at risk, specifically in combat or hostage situations, shank them anyway.
>>23905284Also, if we kill him then we'd better be prepared to kill the cult to the last man, because they'll know what happens to them otherwise. And if we make a point of not doing so, and finding some suitable punishment other than death, how many of the cultists will suddenly find themselves questioning what they believe about monsters?
>>23905331It would be a wise political move for the racism problem to let him live, I agree.AND, we've not put a murderer to death yet. If we let this boy die while we actively covered for mage's sister, that would have been both nepotism and waifuing.
>>23905319We should ask him to explain to us what a monster is.Might get his brain ticking.
>>23905183Logistics: He doesn't want to die. Do you need to be spoon-fed a way to do this?Morality: We're a motherfucking paladin.Legality: We are the law. Our choices will save them or damn them.Go read the archives and lurk more.>>23905064Go into the cell. "I've heard your story, and Avery has a lot on his mind. You don't matter to him, and you attacked me. If I was a petty bureaucrat, you would be dead.Paladins are better then that. You deserve better than that. If you can tell us any more about the camp, I will promise to have your sentence lightened, possibly commuted if I can. Confessing to me, if you feel you have something to confess will help.My promise to you is to get help for those in the camp, and find jobs, if I can. They deserve better than this too.
Man. Discussions like these make me feel for quest thread characters, I wonder if this is what its like to have schizophrenia.So we go in and make a beeline for the Warden.
"You're going in?" Peri/Mari ask.You nod. "Go tell Avery about the names we got, see if he has anything."She nods and goes to tell. She pauses. "The kid's a murderer, a bandit, and he assaulted a Paladin with deadly force. He's messed up, yeah...but you know that there's only two ways this can go, rope or ax." She heads up.You slide up to the kid's cage.The kid screams bloody murder and pushes himself against the back of the wall. "S-S-STAY AWAY!" He yells. "HELP! SOMEONE! HELP! PLEASE, IN YOUR INFINITE POWER AND WISDOM...please...don't let the monster kill me...I wanna go home! I wanna go home!" He breaks down crying still terrified of you.
>>23905349Don't preach. He's heard enough of that. Ask him questions to get him thinking. >>23905347This is good.
>>23905356in moments like these we've decided Ssen just stares unblinking at someone for several minutes before making her move. She is part snake afterall.Honestly I'd rather talk to the boy before anything else.
>>23905349>if they permit>OF COURSE THEY PERMIT READ AND LURK MOREI recall we had an extremely difficult time stopping an execution, and julian couldn't stop it either.
OK, can we agree for now that we want to talk to him and try to relate to him, and then see if we can get him to see his "monsters" as people? It sounds like we know we want to do that anyway, whether it's to show him why he needs to die or show him why he has to endure living knowing what he's done.If we can't even get him to that point, then we won't have much of a decision to make. If we can, and he actually understands what he has done...>>23905349No, he already told us enough about the camp, and if we tell him that explicitly he'll see it as him betraying his people. He might think we just want to go kill his parents or something. And he certainly doesn't want us to take his confession yet.Go with redaeth's version of our history. We're a living, breathing argument for nurture over nature.
>>23905367Keep calm. No sudden moves, let him get the kneejerk out of the way.
>>23905367Oh boy.Slither down next to him. Sit a while.When he is quiet enough to talk to, ask him"What is a monster?"
>>23905349>your sentence lightened, possibly commutedYeah, no. He's confessed to murder. He will need to pay for that. Fully.
>>23905385I like this as an introduction. For all he knows, we can't talk. Best case reaction: "you can talk?"
>>23905370because that was for the supposed attempted assassination of a freaking Prince, in the seat of Citadel's power, and it was framing people it wanted dead.And we where not even a paladin yet.
>>23905395Good points, but I still think it is valid to worry about legalities until it is confirmed what we can and can't do.Act as you will, but I am going to continue worrying. It's what I do.
>>23905410Do continue worrying; this is going to have consequences no matter what. For all we know, if we don't kill this guy Granny's command to not retaliate will break down. Let's just assume for now we have the option.
>>23905385when he answers something like "human" reply to him a monster is something that hurts and kills without remorse. The ghouls are human after all. But nontheless they are monsters all the same.
>>23905428What is a man?A MISERABLE PILE OF SECRETS.
>>23905385You slide up next to the bars, and wait, he stops sobbing and just waits."What is a monster?" You ask.He shuts his eyes and puts his hands over his ears. "May my eyes be blinded to sin and my ears be deaf to lies. May my eyes be blinded to sin and my ears be deaf to lies. May my eyes be blinded to sin and my ears be deaf to lies." He keeps saying it over and over again.
Can we stop the execution: If we convince him, just need write it well. Beforehand, we were dealing with the Citadel + Sophie going nuts, this will be easy if we just get a decent writer to do it.I'll do my best if no one else can do it.
>>23905449>>23905461If it goes on for too long."May the Light open your eyes and your ears to the truth."He fights against blasphemers too right?
>>23905449"..That's now how it goes." Hold his hands and say the thing we always say to keep the Citadel from hearing.
>>23905449>eyes shut and ears coveredNow is the PERFECT time to hold his had, caress his hair, place a holy symbol on his lap, or any number of personal outreaches."If you don't want to talk, you don't have to. I just thought you might want to."
>>23905461Eventually, he runs out of steam, and just sits there, he's gone back to begging for his mother and begging for His Light to have him not die.He's turned away from you so he doesn't even have to look at you.
>>23905449Alright, time for some real prayer. Grab our medallion; "Light above, if there is a spark of light left in him that has not been smothered by the darkness, let it shine brightly."
>>23905454Sage we can only sabotage so many executions.
>>23905467>>23905465>>23905463Okay, guys, he's in a cell and Avery didn't give you the key. He's on one side of the door and you're on the other. Just so you know.
>>23905469At this rate, we're gonna need to start singing Dynamite Explosion or something to get through to him...Regardless, I vote for both >>23905465and >>23905463
>>23905478Okay, so, like... this isn't a cell with bars that you can reach through, then?Excuse me while I re-imagine the scene.
>>23905470"Light above, if there is a spark of light left in him that has not been smothered by the darkness, let it shine brightly."He looks at you scandalized. "You can't do that!" He says. "Stop it! Monsters aren't allowed to pray!"
>>23905491Ask him again. What makes a monster.
>>23905491"What is a monster?"
>>23905486Oh it is, but you guys were saying like 'sat next to him' and stuff like that. He's pressed himself against the far wall from you. You can't reach him.
>>23905491"What makes a monster?"
>>23905491>>23905498>what makes a monsterI think "what is a monster" is better wording, but either way, the sentiment is there.
>>23905469"..Where did you learn that chant? This is the fist time I've heard such a thing."
>>23905499"What is a monster?""You!"
>>23905500okay, that makes sense.
>>23905454No. There is a difference between stopping the execution of innocents, and stopping the execution of a murderer and highwayman. Stopping the execution, especially through miracles would probably be the worst thing we could do. Implying that they are right? That the light is on their side? Can you imagine the uproar that would cause?
>>23905509"No one else?"
>>23905491"How would you describe a monster? Something that hurts and kills without remorse?"
>>23905509"Yes, yes, heard it before, why am I a monster?"
>>23905509"..And why am I the monster here?"
>>23905509this >>23905516plus"You call me Monster? I have never killed an Innocent."
>>23905520He's not ready for that one quite yet, as tempting as it is.
>>23905473I prefer to think off it as a scorecard, not as a once-a-year spell."So you don't want to die, your parents need food, and your father needs medicine. Anything else?
>>23905528Pretty sure his father doesn't need medicine as much as he needs to get back on the fucking water wagon. And a job.
>>23905516"How would you describe a monster? Something that hurts and kills without remorse?""Yes! That's what you do!""I have never killed an Innocent.""Liar! Monsters lie, they are creatures without Light or souls, they do nothing but lie and kill...may he blind my eyes..." And he's back to the mantra.
>>23905528Fuckin thisTime for a food and medical supply delivery, personally delivered to their doorstep.
>>23905542See if we can't get some Lizardfolk delivering it. For extra guilt trip.
>>23905539If he falls back to the mantra, just assume we let him get tired of it unless we say otherwise.
>>23905546>>23905542Yes, lets put people in harms way by going to the racist kill happy camp.
>>23905539"May the light prevent any more youths from falling into the darkness this one has. "
>>23905539"That chant..where did you learn it? It doesn't sound like any of the Teachings that I was ever taught. I mean, why would you want the light to strike you blind? Even if it was only to sin, doesn't that just mean you wouldn't know what a Sin is?"
>>23905539"Seems to me that you're the one thats lost sight of the Light. You can't perceive through the darkness of your prejudice."
>>23905539Apart from a "What's your name?" that we're sorely missing here, I think it's storytime. Time to tell him about how we could have been a monster, but by the grace of His Light we were raised differently. Tell him about a man paid by some townsfolk to exterminate some Lamia.>>23905562This; I wonder how he'll react to the idea that we were taught the Teachings.
>>23905562>"That chant..where did you learn it? It doesn't sound like any of the Teachings that I was ever taught. I mean, why would you want the light to strike you blind? Even if it was only to sin, doesn't that just mean you wouldn't know what a Sin is?">>23905563It is not our spot to judge right now. Keep questioning, not lording over him. It will lessen the chance he drops back into what he's been conditioned to.
>>23905514and there is a difference between a child that is misled by the true monster(the cult), and a normal highwayman doing it because he can.we are not trying to cause a miracle, we are trying to get him to repent, so that we can reduce his sentence to something besides death.
>>23905575Should every sob story that gets thrown our way get reduced sentencing?
>>23905573Point. He goes catatonic when he thinks we blaspheme.>>23905539"You don't want to talk about monsters. OK. Let's talk about a man, instead. A good man. He was hired by some townsfolk, who told him to kill some monsters that had taken up residence in a cave."(Start with that.)
>>23905575A murderer is still a murderer, even if they say sorry. We cannot reduce sentence for that sort of thing.
>>23905586Heck no. We're not going easy on him because he's had a hard life; if he was knowingly stealing and killing We're going easy on someone who, based on everything he's ever been taught, can't see a difference between a Lamia and a common pest that needs exterminating to protect his family. You know, like those pesky monsters who keep coming into perfectly good caves and killing decent Lamia who are just trying to raise a family.
Ssen:Sit there for five minutes staring at the guy.As you habitually do on these really hard problems.
>>23905632I heard somewhere that snakes don't really blink.Wonder if that applies to Lamias. We need to challenge Granny to a staring contest.
>>23905539wait it out"You will not find that mantra in any prayer book of the Light.">>23905586>>23905609no, every situation is unique and should be judged by its own merits. You are consistently ignoring the fact that he is a Child, not some adult that chose this path on his own.
>>23905652See, he's not quite a child is one of the points here.He is old enough for it to be unclear. Especially by lamia standards.
Echo, just how old is this 'kid' ... ?
>>23905609We're not suddenly better because we're a PC, suddenly worse because he got a shitty hand in life. One player telling another what they can and can't do in a game they don't run is novell.
>>23905652>>23905663I think the problem is less that he's a kid, and more that he's been blatantly received.
>>23905652not to mention he was tricked in by sex and drugs. now all those assholes at the camp need is rock'n roll to have evil klux-klux fantasy biker
>>23905592"You don't want to talk about monsters. OK. Let's talk about a man, instead. A good man. He was hired by some townsfolk, who told him to kill some monsters that had taken up residence in a cave.""No, no, no...just shut up shut up shut up....you're an evil monster and you're going to try and get into my head with lies, and Father Billings has told me better and I'm going to go to His Side, and you're going to go away to the Darkness where you'll be in the muck and pain forever, because that's what you deserve!" He says in a half-ramble half-sob. The kid is so broken. "Why did this have to happen to me? Everything was good until now...why did my life suddenly become so miserable?" He sobs. "I want to be happy again! I don't want this!"
>>23905539"What's your name kid?"
>>2390566716-20 you guess.
>>23905685"What would you have done to the people I was protecting, if you had indeed killed me?"
>>23905688This.>>23905685OK, I think we need to give this kid some hope before we can fully get him to listen."You say I'm a monster, that I kill people. You attacked me. So tell me, if I'm a monster, why am I trying so hard to find a reason *not* to let you die here?"
>>23905699Interesting line of questioning; kinda leads down the "can humans be monsters" road.
yes he was driven to this by others, his father, his priest, his 'lover.' but That does not absolve him of the fact that he has murdered twice and tried to do it again with us. In this land such crimes are dealt with execution. However we should do every effort we can to reach his soul before that happens. Its one of the duties we have as Paladin.>>23905702He would have killed them. He already said traitors deserve to die. I believe he even killed someone already.>>23905685You killed people. No matter what you think you killed people. His Light will accept you regardless because He is forgiving. But you will have a much longer Journey to make before you are by his Side.
A NOTE:Ssen is 18. This guy might be OLDER than us.
>>23905702>>23905699I think both of these could work - lead off with us telling him we're trying to save him, then follow up with the other question.
>>23905713no, he killed a LIZARDMAN. he BEAT some traitors.
>>23905685"And why are you going to go to the Light? Why do you deserve it when the only thing you did was be born with legs and a useless flat tongue."
>>23905702>"You say I'm a monster, that I kill people. You attacked me. So tell me, if I'm a monster, why am I trying so hard to find a reason *not* to let you die here?""What?" He asks. "You're...what? You mean you're trying not to..." He sits there. HIs survival instinct overpowering all of the other things. "Why?"
>>23905720>>23905728Fuck I'm doing the caps things again, it is a hard habit to break.
This is so fucking gay.
>>23905736Because I love people. And I believe no one is ever beyond redemption.
>>23905743Really? You pull this NOW?
>>23905736Because everyone deserves a chance. My father gave me one despite the 'monster' so many people see me as. He was the man I mentioned.
>>23905743Only about half as gay as you.
>>23905736"...Allow me to introduce myself. I am Lady Ssen Patrick of the Dawnchasers, Paladin and Servant of the Light."
>>23905736"because I've been taught by my father to give others another chance, because even if you did something bad you were manipulated too do so"
>>23905761>>23905768It's okay, we forgive him. Back to questing.
>>23905736I want to help you, I want to help as many people as I can, but before I can do that, I need to know what the problem really is. This is why I am asking these questions.>>23905761He's just frustrated. Limits of patience and whatnot.
I will lead the blind by ways they have not known, along unfamiliar paths I will guide them; I will turn the darkness into light before them and make the rough places smooth.
>>23905736"Because I serve the Light.Because I think you've been dealt a shit hand in life, and deserve a second chance....but ultimately, I think its because I want to stop hatred, suffering and death wherever I see it."
>>23905736And there's our opening. Time to tell him our story, redaeth's version.And end it with: "So, that's why I'm talking to you, and not just standing by and letting you die for attacking me and for killing people in the past. Because I wouldn't be here if there wasn't forgiveness in this world for me, if my Father couldn't see past the monster to a person, if he hadn't taught me the Teachings and shown me the Light. I'd still be in the darkness, not knowing that there was any alternative."
>>23905758"Because I love people. And I believe no one is ever beyond redemption.""Yes, oh...yes yes yes. I'm sorry. I'm so so sorry I killed that mon-that lizard person and hurt those people. I'm very very very sorry...please...I confess I confess I repent I repent, please, anything...just don't kill me! Let me go any you'll never see me again, I swear I swear! Please. I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry!" He says.
>>23905789man we are not getting through this kid. He just isn't listening.
>>23905789This>>23905774We don't have to impress him, we have to genuinely convince him we are here to help. Otherwise he will simply think of us as a way out.
>>23905789"I will not kill you. "And saying the words is easy. The actual act of redemption is far harder."
>>23905736>>23905785Yes, tell the story. Though, I'm not sure end it on such a positive note.The guy's actions are not condoned by the light, we can't save him with a miracle without being fucking terrible people. He's a murderer, we can't save him legally without being a terrible person to those he killed.At least with the sister, there was the question of whether or not she would STILL be murderous when all that ghoul shit was out of her system. This guy doesn't have ghoul magic in his guts, he has cult words in his head. That's... worse.
>>23905789"I'm glad to hear your apology, but save it for the family of the lizard man you murdered. First, though, tell me why you think it was wrong. And look me in the eyes when you say it."
>>23905811No. The story is not important right now. It would just sound as self preening.
>>23905789Empty words will get you no where.
Guys, I am still here in the quest checking in occasionally, but I am far too busy pacing and thinking to actually make posts. Do take my slack for until this specific ethical quandry is over and these asprin work.
>>23905789As manipulative as he's trying to be, he's at least not shutting us out anymore. He gets to sit and listen for a while longer.We don't need to tell him about the Light or redemption; those are just empty words he can throw back at us to try to live. We can't get through to him by telling him what we need to hear to let him go. We need him to understand what has happened here. We need him to know what makes a monster. We need him to wake up and see the truth.
>>23905736"Because I am a paladin. It's not a job, it's a way of life. And because your family, your friends, and you deserve better. You said it yourself, it was better before. It's been 9 months, Citadel won't make it better. But we can."
>>23905812"I'm glad to hear your apology, but save it for the family of the lizard man you murdered. First, though, tell me why you think it was wrong. And look me in the eyes when you say it." You say as you turn to face him."I'm..." He swallows as he looks into your eyes. He takes a deep breath and stares at you. "It was wrong. Killing is wrong, no matter what. I broke the law. I'm sorry." He looks away from you and takes a deep breath. "There, I did it. I'm sorry. Please, can I go home now?"
>>23905821The moment has passed. Now it would be like that, yes.
>>23905843Oh jeez someone break it to him
>>23905843"No, you may not. You have made choices in life that have greatly affected others. Killing a person, assaulting another."Do you truly believe you will simply walk away from all of that?"
meh he is just saying this to survive. There is no redemption in those words.
>>23905843"I'm not going to lie to you and tell you you're going home. You've attacked and kiilled people. You're not going to just walk out of this cell. What I'm trying to do is something other than lead you to the executioner's block. This city needs people to rebuild it, or the problems your family is struggling with will never go away. There might be a way you can help with that.But don't think I'm so naive as to not know when someone is telling me what I want to hear."Still thinking he needs to hear the story. He cares deeply about his family. Tell him about family.
>>23905843Sigh. At least it is a start."Sorry, you can't really go home right now. I might be able to stop your execution though." Start to leave. "Don't be surprised to see me again."
>>23905843"Words are wind. Until you think of a good act of contrition to start making this right, the sentence stands. I truly hope you get it soon. I don't want to have to tell your mom and dad how their poor brainwashed kid got himself killed."
>>23905869"No, you may not. You have made choices in life that have greatly affected others. Killing a person, assaulting another."Do you truly believe you will simply walk away from all of that?"He bangs on the cell door. "Let me out! Let me out let me out let me out! I don't deserve to be in here!"A voice clears his throat. It's Paladin Avery, he's at the entry to the cells. "I think that's been long enough, Paladin Ssen." He says. He looks very sad, and you wonder how long he's been watching you.He motions you to follow him.
>>23905881>>23905884>>23905870>Giving up Do you even dream the impossible dream fuckers? This can still be salvaged.
>>23905890Damnit Echo at least let us get >>23905879 in
guys, its over. we tried our best. and sometimes its all you can do.
>>23905881Yeah, if we can't get through to him today, we can at least get a stay of execution and let him sit in his cell for now.>>23905890OK, we can say something to him to think about right before we leave, then follow Avery. I like the idea of telling him he has to think about how to make this right, not just be sorry.
>>23905890Follow him. "I had to try. May His Light guide that soul that I could not."
>>23905879You hold up a hand to stall Avery."I'm not going to lie to you and tell you you're going home. You've attacked and kiilled people. You're not going to just walk out of this cell. What I'm trying to do is something other than lead you to the executioner's block. This city needs people to rebuild it, or the problems your family is struggling with will never go away. There might be a way you can help with that.""But don't think I'm so naive as to not know when someone is telling me what I want to hear."He breaks down into a mess of screams of rage at you, and crying for his mother. Still banging on the door over and over again. Begging to go home, and that he's 'sorry.' He's a mess.
Once we leave with avery:"That was one of the saddest things I've seen in my life. HOW many of these cases did you say you've done?"
>>23905914Just leave and say nothing more.
>>23905890For what it's worth, Avery, he is a misguided young fool. His anger has been nurtured, manipulated, taken advantage of. His head filled with a poison worse than any I have ever seen, and trust me when I say I have seen vile poisons.I know what crimes he has committed and I must still speak out for him.
>>23905914"You poor lost kid. I'm so sorry they did this to you."Leave with Avery
>>23905673You misunderstand. I don't say we cannot do it as in it'd be impossible, we could do it. I'm saying we cannot do it for the same reason a cop cannot save a murderer from the death penalty, even if the murderer said sorry. If we do it, we are throwing out law and due process on a whim. We are saying the only justice that matters is our justice.If anything, I should be the one saying we aren't suddenly better because we're a PC.
>>23905911You follow Avery."I had to try. May His Light guide that soul that I could not.""Amen," Avery says. "You tried more than any other Paladin I've ever seen." He sighs. "I've seen that too often now, I wonder if some of them I could have reached if I tried as much as you did."He runs a hand through his hair. "I can have him jailed for life, left down there. Do you think there's a chance he'll ever repent? Truly? I know His Light allows all to repent and forgiveness is eternal...but you saw more of him than any other. Do you think he can find any part of his way back to the Darkness? Or is it better to send him on the Journey and see if he can find his way to His Light there?"
>>23905943"I don't know."And that's the fucking truth.
>>23905943"Let him sit. Once he rots for a while in precisely the place his leaer's 'teachings' got him, it'll get sorted out... I hope."
>>23905956You know what?This is one of the few times that is entirely appropriate.also I AM SO SORRY AVERY, WHY DOES EVERY BUCK STOP WITH YOU
>>23905943"I...I have to believe there's something there. How is it right that I can have had the chance I had, and not him? I don't know if he can be saved, but I don't think I can live with myself if I don't try.And if we do kill him, we'd better be prepared to kill the cult to the last man, because they've all been fed the same thing."
I feel bad for this kid. We need to be careful not to feel glad when we smite this cult leader (and we are going to smite him). Justified, yes. Sad, yes. Angry, oh you better believe yes. But never happy.
>>23905943"There's always a chance, Avery."
>>23905943"I really wish I could give you an answer Avery. But it just feels like every time I try to pull someone out of the darkness they always slip through my fingers."
>>23905971oh I am SUPER ANGRY.But the cult leader also distributed resources fairly and ensured everyone in his community got fed. He will be slain with the same emotion as I have when I slay true warriors or men of beliefs opposing mine. Which is somewhere between sadness, battle fury, hate, and comraderie for another living being that is now dying.
I find myself wondering about the conversations Father had right around the time he adopted us.We had it easy, though: we were never really taught anything but good.
>>23905956>>23905978>>23905970"There's always a chance, Avery.">>23905970"I...I have to believe there's something there. How is it right that I can have had the chance I had, and not him? I don't know if he can be saved, but I don't think I can live with myself if I don't try."And if we do kill him, we'd better be prepared to kill the cult to the last man, because they've all been fed the same thing.""So you have no idea.""Not a one. It just feels like every time I try to pull someone out of the darkness they always slip through my fingers."Avery nods. "You up for that scotch now?"
>>23905991Sad smile, "Yeah, I think I am."
>>23905991"Absolutely."Scotch is a daily vitamin for paladins in a post-citadel world.
>>23905991No. We give him the names of the important folks first.
>>23905984You SURE about that fact?
>>23905991"Yes, I think I need one now.""We can always leave him down there for now, there is no rush to execute him."
>>23905991The hurting part of me says yes. But I'd rather not. This pain in my heart is a reminder of my duty. I don't want to numb it other than by solution of its cause.
>>23906001>about that factWhich one are you mentioning? Since I gave several facts AND opinions there. Like the fact that I feel certain emotions when killing people.
>>23905991Accept his offer and discuss new information in privacy.
>>23905991"..Yeah..also..Peri got a name off of the kid. Some sort of preacher named Father Billings, sound familiar?"
>>23906005Adding: "Clear eyes in the darkness, y'know."
>>23906011Fair distribution I am guessing. All we really know are names. The guy may have just said it was equal distribution. We have know way of knowing for sure.
We still need to visit Isen. Sharing a scotch is fine, but no getting sloshed, please.>>23906001...damn, I didn't even question that, just because I didn't believe he'd lie about it. He probably *didn't* lie. What do you want to bet he's pulling "some are more equal than others" for himself and the other leaders?>>23906014This, and Lord Grammar.
>>23905943The murder and banditry are his own sins. But all of that hate and fear was put there by someone else. Someone who knew what they were doing. Light grant that I might find them, that it might give strength to my blows, and shield my heart from the same hatred.And... I know how hard it is to try to reach a soul that won't reach out. I could have joined the Amber and built a thousand gleaming cathedrals, or joined the Red and fought a thousand terrible dragons. Instead I had to be my fathers daughter, and witness the wounds of a thousand broken and bleeding souls.
>>23906001Echo is correct, we may need to book it to Bronze Peak. Also need to inform Sheherazade that the Glass Scorpion Assassins are the Lightbringer's next 'challenge'.
>>23906021Pronoun fail. "What do you want to bet Lord Grammar is pulling..."
>>23906021Don't forget the slut trainer.
>>23906019well, if he isn't distributing fairly, then I hope to find out before I slay him so I may show 30-60% more disdain.
>>23905984Do you really think a cult leader like this would share food equally, and not, say, keep the best hidden for himself? Keeping his cult half-starving does nothing but aid his cause. Heck, for all we know he might be throwing food away.
>>23906025Sorry, I'm missing the context here. What?
>>23906036Yeah, exposing that to the rest of the cult would pretty much be game over right there.
>>23906036>do you really think a cult leader would share food equally?If he does, then he gets less disdain for me than a cult leader that doesn't. Whether or not it's the truth is up to the evidence gathering section of the raid.
>>23906021We are not leaving Stone Hall in this state.
>>23906050We had already bookmarked a week to stay in stonehall.We, therefore, have a week to get this shit better before we really have to start worrying about getting to bronze peak.
>>23906037We may not have time to assault the cultists. I'd like to, if we have the time.
>>23905994You give him a sad smile, "Yeah, I think I am."Avery decides that the kid will be slated for death, but that it wont be for a while due to bureaucratic issues. In a year, if nothing's changed, then the stump and the axe. But for now, the kid can sit in the dark and see if he can find his way back.Avery got the names of the targets from Lea and Peri/Mari. He's pulled up dossiers on them. Father Billings, a second rung preacher in a first rung church. The man who filled in when the usual priest was sick, he was never really popular, but now he preaches what the unhappy want to hear, and thus his flock has grown.Sally Allbred. Kicked out of the Swords Guild for inappropriate conduct with the younger boys. A very skilled swordswoman and trainer. A control freak, which also probably added to her getting kicked out. Apparently there's was a complaint from one of the 'recreational parlors' as well, someone pretends to not hear safe words.Finally, Lord Gammar, an actual noble of the city. He was one of the first to run when the Ghouls invaded, and...of course...a personal friend of Paladin Odette. Apparently they're second cousins or something. These are the latest heads of the hydra.
>>23906062Well, we got our work cut out for us.And we have a time limit.and, most importantly, all of this is cutting into our stone hall vacation time. Remember that? That vacation time we wanted?It is never going to happen.
>>23906062First thoughts: The lord first. Cut the funding. Then in the increased strife to follow, we expose Billings' darkest lies which he undoubtedly has kept from his flock and let the cult implode. In the aftermath or along the way, we take Sally.
>>23906070I prefer dealing with some shitty cult than dealing with the citadel.
>>23906070Don't you get it Anonymous, this is what paladins do on vacation.
>>23906070its better then Citadel, but yea, our vacation is screwed.
>>23906077At least the maximum level of casualties if we fuck everything up entirely is only the entire population of stone hall.And not everyone on the entire continent in an orgy of hatred, starvation, plague, and war.
>>23906050Last we heard I thought Isen was somewhere here, trying to find somewhere for himself, Tara, and Princess Mumei.>>23906054Yeah, we need to stick around at least until Mage gets the language spell sorted, and a week ought to be enough to deal with the leaders of this cult if we can.But somehow I don't think we can just blaze a trail straight into First Stone Hall, rip open a warehouse full of hoarded food, and make it all better. How the heck do we even approach this?Sneaking in? Planting some people in the cult? Psychological warfare with Stone Hall public policy? All of the above?Unfortunately, the cult already knows Peri and Mari. I'm betting the butcher's family is already there or at least sympathizing, but maybe I'm assuming too little of them.>>23906070Yeah, I love how we all just assumed Stone Hall was a peaceful rest stop and reunion on the way to Bronze Peak, and then it turned into Happy Happy Valley. Well done Echo.
>>23906075>>23906062Either the lord or the priest need to go first.The fighter lady seems like she wouldn't be a problem without the funding to equip her troops or the priest to get her troops, but the priest and noble are each a problem on their own with their influence.The worst the fighterchick can do on her own is murder, or possibly seduction.
>>23906077 So I have an early work morning tomorrow. I'll end this for tonight. I'm really glad you've been so into some of this stuff. Please archive as always.Again, I'm going to a convention on Thursday, so tomorrow, Wednesday 3-27-13 3-4pm PST, will be the last one until Sunday.
>>23906099>last one until sunday>at earliestOh jeez, I don't know what I'm going to do without you echo. Lamia quest has replaced several of my previous forms of entertainment, which just don't seem that interesting to me now.I just feel so guilty all the time when I am playing dark souls, even MORE so now that I am thinking about paladins.
>>23906096We could always try throwing isen at the fighter chick. It sounds like she's in this operation solely to get her rocks off.
>>23906099Aight. Goodnight you glorious bastard.
>>23906099 archived, also might want to delay to monday, sunday is easter after all
>>23906082>this is what paladins do on vacationOh jeez, that's true.A paladin spends his work week saving the kingdom. On his weekend? He goes and fixes economic issues and attempts to redeem criminals in small cities.
>>23906075This seems like the right skeleton of a plan. How might we go after the lord, though?
>>23906112Yeah, fighter chick could be disarmed with a quick deployment of operation "Isen Insertion". She seems like the smallest of the problems.Just watch her be the secret sex-ringleader at the end of all this.
>>23906119With fire and sword. Of course that's the plan B. Plan A could be to simply sieze all of his belongings down to the last cent in the wake of some scandal (real or manufactured).
>>23906132Well, I look forward to both plan A and plan B turning out to be terrible, terrible, terrible for numerous ethical or practical reasons. I further look forward to us fumbling through the problem and making things two stages better one and a half stages worse.
>>23906160I expect we'll end up going through plans C through E before this is all over.
>Paladins>A breakNever happens. Not because they don't want one, God no, they would LOVE to catch a break. They just never GET one.All that evil. And it IS evil, no-one will debate that. It is solidly in the evil corner. And every paladin must think to themselves, in their innermost thoughts, how much BETTER the world would be if they were just given a room, five minutes, and a sword...But they never voice those thoughts, and they never act on them. Because that's a place that's hard to come ack from.
>>23906187Why are we even making plans any more
>>23906201See, paladins catch breaks SOMEtimes. When the winds of providence and fate conspire to make there be no evil within a day's ride that day, and no evil so pressing so as I thought stone hall could have been one of those points of serendipity. Oh well, at least we got our shield.
>>23906203Personally, I never make plans. Just wing everything. Tends to work more times than not.
>>23906220It's awkward as fuck when it doesn't work out.Especially with all the long pauses ssen likes to take.
hey. hey guys.I know we're all distracted by racial tension and prejudice and economic problems and citadel threatening to end all free thought worldwide, but...WE'RE A PALADIN NOWAND OUR HAIR IS BACKAND OUR SKIN IS MOSTLY BETTERON A PERSONAL LEVEL SHIT IS LOOKING WAY UP
>>23906203>let us take solace in the wisdom of the patron saint of paladins everywhereThere’s some mythical beast called, ‘overtime,’ only no one's ever been able to slay it.” ~St. Vimes“We work as a team and we’re pretty much making it up as we go along, and half the time we’re not even certain what the Light is, so it can get interesting.” ~St. Vimes"I was talking about paladinhood, not alcohol. There's lots of people willing to help you with the alcohol business, but there's no one out there arranging little meetings where you can stand up and say, 'My name is Sam and I'm a really patient bastard.'" ~St. Vimes"The Paladin's mantel isn't like a crown. Even when you take it off, you're still wearing it." ~St. Vimes
>>23906265I need to read more discworld if he was bumped up to a bonified saint at one point.I stopped sometime around where trolls were getting heat sink hats for reasons of "I can't read any more of this pile of books in a row, my eyes really hurt"
>>23906276He's not a saint in the books, /tg/ just views him as the perfect paladin"No excuses. No excuses at all. Once you have a good excuse, you open the door to bad excuses." ~St. Vimes
>>23906296then I might still need to read up, since I need more paladin material.How would vimes deal without a vetenari to keep this shit in check?
>>23906305Read Thud. He goes full chaotic good.
Finally managed to scribble some more for this.
I think what we need to do is to play the noble and priest against each other. Give them reason to mistrust the other, so when shit goes down the first person they blame is each other, not us.
>>23907930Or find out what their price is. Father Billings may just want a huge crowd that hangs on his every word, and the inherent respect/power that comes from that. He could've been real tired of playing second string to a superior preacher, and is now reveling in his newfound relevance.Sally may just want to be in a position where she's in charge of things, or may just be a domineering hedonist. Lord Gammar might be the complicated one here. He might have seen his influence evaporating with the new proclamations handed down by the paladins and the slaughter of his subordinates by the ghouls, and acted accordingly to ensure that he'd still be influential in the days to come. Best case scenario is that we can sway him with a guarantee of an influential position in a prosperous city, far away from all of this. Worst case scenario is that he's out for blood and wants to avenge Odette's death, and sincerely wants Stonehall to be free of all non-human life.
>>23908571I'm finding it extremely hard to convince myself that there is a means by which Billings an Sally may be redeemed which does not consist of an act of contrition followed by death. I don't know if people who do the things they do can really be trusted with life, anymore.
>>23908683They probably won't become good people within their lifetime, this is true. At least not without someone to help them with their issues and help them change for the better. But Ssen & Co. probably don't have enough time to set them on that path. The best alternative may be to see if they can actually be useful in another place far away from Stone Hall, or otherwise see if we can deposit them in a place where they will be utterly satisfied and become complacent.