Sup /tg/. I'm trying to come up with a Good counterpart to the succubus - something that rewards people for being Good, instead of tempting them to be Evil. The nearest mythological equivalent is the Houri, the virgins of the Islamic afterlife.What do you think, /tg/?
Sorry, anon, sexual pleasure for oneself is innately Evil due to being an entirely selfish gratification.
>>23477347The point of being good isn't the reward.
>>23477548ThisIn most games Good is to sacrifice for others without a reward (doing it cause it's the right thing to do).
In other words, the cosmology wants to reward your do-gooding with bitches, or what? Succubi are supposed to be insidious and bringing people around to do evil. Are the good side supposed to do the same thing: give evil people incentive to do good or smite them down?
>>23477548Yes, but being Good DESERVES a reward. Like Santa Claus, but with sex.
>>23477347>I'm trying to come up with a Good counterpart to the succubus...you mean the loving wife?
>>23477729adding santa to my next campaign as a diety that interacts with the mortal world
>>23477729There has to be more to it than just sex, though. A paladin shouldn't have to be paladin'ing around just for the potential for celestial booty, and not just because that misses the point of being a paladin. There needs to be a point.
>>23477729Generally, good is its own reward and that's how it claims the moral high ground. Giving bennies kind of undermines the moral dilemma.
>>23477729Hot females wandering around giving blowjobs to people who work for the greater good?
>>23477717No. Being Good is not a bargain, is is something you want to do. But one Good turn deserves another. If one does not occur on its own, it fall upon certain beings to provide one. That's the feeling I was going for.
>>23477729Being good is its own reward.
>>23477757Exactly. If you're doing good for the sake of getting bitches, thenA) you're missing the point of doing good, andB) you might as well get a succubus. It's the same thing for less work.Here's a different thought: does the celestial "reward" need to only be booty? Why not make her a cosmological cohort? If you overthrow the evil king by yourself, then maybe the pantheon or a particular god decides you should be rewarded and grant you a celestial companion who can do lots of different things, INCLUDING give up dat booty?
I had a dream like this once. Not with the succubi, but with angels suddenly descending from heaven and announcing that, since heaven was full due to unforeseen population growth, good deeds would now be redeemable in life, for free stuff. The heaven shop slogan was "Why Let Virtue Be Its Own Reward?"...And then hell set up a competing rewards program.
>>23477826The only reward which is acceptable is one you can use to do even more good with. Like, I dunno, the power to aid the sick and injured.
All good rewards come after death, hence why evil is a temptation and goodliness requires faith and patience.Even Valkyries dont show up until after you die gloriously in battle.
>>23477862Probably.This question feels like something Ah! My Goddess tackled.
Maybe you're "tagged" with being good. You slowly get a halo and if you are impossibly good you get Angle wings or something. Beyond that, I dunno, can anyone be that good?
>>23477891"Dude, I SWEAR to you, there's gonna be bitches waiting for you when you get up here. Honest, I got ten of 'em standing with me right now. Say hi, girls.""Hiiiiii, heroooo~""You see? Just keep fighting the good fight, man, and I PROMISE you, I PROMISE you, you're gonna love the reward when it's over."
>>23477853This is good.I like this.You have good dreams.
>>23477903That's what happens in Jade Empire and Fable. You eventually get a light blue glow around you, and in Jade Empire, if you stand idle long enough, a giant halo forms around your head and celestial butterflies flit about.
>>23477862so get an angel girl cohort that can cast cure light wounds at will and cure disease X times a day, but is still willing to fuck you.now that i think about it wouldn't angels want to fuck as much as possible to create a generation of nothing but half angels, which later fills the planet with almost nothing but aasimar, and turning the entire world Goodi think i have my next campaign hook
>>23477891A good afterlife is still focused on bringing more altruism into the universe. Hell, you could even view Valhalla as this. Sure you got to eat and drink all you wanted, but you spent every day fighting and refining your skills so that one day you can make one last attempt to save the world.
>>23477961For a good or evil campaign?
>>23477937i have my last words
>>23477826Huh, kind of a belldandy for paladins. Lawful and helpful though harsh on straying acts becomes almost a kind of moality leash. Their relationship going the physical route isn't the default but would certainly explain asimar running around. Needs protection from plot abilities though, high diplo, ethereal/gaseous form/freedom of movement , greater teleport, that kind of stuff. I like it. Now to start statting.
>>23477954I never played either of those games.>>23477961That'd be only for an evil campaign, and if so, let me play. (Assuming you're doing it online.)
>>23477996>paladin's code forbids dealing with evil beings>suggest having him wed someone willing to fuck with his head without his knowledge for years on end
>>23477975Either way, the reward comes later, not now. Thats the whole reason hell even has a foothold in humanity. If angels were running around giving blowjobs on every corner, thered be no reason to sell your soul.Yes, even if it was the eldritch BE NOT AFRAID angels.
>>23477996You know the idea of evil people being taunted/advised by "dark whispers" in their head, and it turns out to be cohorts like that? Hell, even the cartoon representiation of the angel and devil consciences arguing on your shoulders? It'd be the same thing, just for good people towards good ends.
>>23477954Except in Jade Empire, the angel and wings were more Asian looking and only appeared if you meditated since they were your manifested chi or some shit like that.
>>23477975>Valhalla as a desperate gambit to save the cosmos from destruction>Vikings really were Chaotic Good.Holy shit.
>>23478024Not Domate: "redeam that litch" but just a normal "Can't he still be saved?". What make you think they'd be evil? Sometimes a Good man needs a Good woman by his side (or vice versa)
>>23478036That's an important distinction to make. Evil is often about instant gratification and getting your rewards as soon as possible. For there to be a good approximation of the same thing, you have to be willing to do a lot more for it, but it's more powerful and appreciable as a result.Of course, unless the cosmology is able to tell whether someone is truly acting with good or evil intentions, you might get people who do a bunch of good and get these celestial cohorts only so he could get them, turn evil, corrupt them to evil, and lead a charge with his new unholy vanguard.
Essentially there are no good succubi because it makes the choice to be good or evil a non-decision.
>>23477729Also, lust is a sin, so no Heaven whores (but Heaven wives are ok).
>>23478117Would they still look like >>23477589?Hell, thinking on it, isn't that pretty much what OP is going for?
>>23478117>sex is badBook of Exalted Deeds disagrees.
>>23478041>>23477996This works quite well with what I was thinking, have them be intangible and often invisable by default unless a bit of help was needed. Romance can happen but it's not "Godd job! Heres your new fuckbuddy" you earn that shit.
>>23478078i agree with a good man having a good woman, i'm disagreeing about belldandy being good
>>23477961That's not the point fuckwad. The point of goodness granting you more power is so that you can do more with it. The Holy Avenger isn't there to make you badass in combat (because you totally earned it), it's there so you can fight a Balor and stand a chance.
>>23478146Sex isn't bad, so long as it's with one loving and devoted partner.
>>23478143I guess... but theirs a clear difference.You have to make a binding commitment to your Heave wives. While Hell whores lust after you the most when it's wrong to fuck them. (one's a temptation the other is a partnership).
>>23477347...Is it wrong that the first picture I saw of this was a Futa Alter in the Elzi threads on /d/?
>>23478154Well, that's a different argument altogether.
>>23478171a teammate that can heal limitlessly can do a lot of good, and turning the entire planet good does a lot of good
>>23478203/d/, pls goWho am I kidding, that would leave this whole board empty.
>>23477751The Christmas Pimp?
>>23478154Replace belldandy with "Insert Magic Girlfriend Here" then. Why not do this with all the specalized demons? What would be the angelic opposite of a lemure be? Fleshing this out could make for a really cool "Good and Evil are Mirrored" cosmology that honestly fits perfect with most alignment systems.
>>23478171Its a good campaign idea. The Ying and Yang of the world is being threatened, so evil needs to rise up and fix it.
>>23478237What would differentiate them beyond just the Good/Evil cosmic labels? Are the good versions fewer but more powerful, or what?
>>23478088Good "rewards" shouldn't be rewards at all. They're like promotions. You get more responsibilities, so you get something to help you live up to the expectations placed on you. >>23478223Turning the entire planet "good" through breeding is not a good act. If you don't have the choice to be good, then you aren't being good at all. You're just an automaton.Beyond that, it's better for them to grant you the power to do so.
>>23478203Yes because those are terrible, terrible threads that ruin quality pictures with shitty shoops and even worse text.
>>23478254We're not assuming a dualistic universe in which each is needed, but rather good and evil as a personal choice. If good and evil are just energy types, then they don't actually reflect those words.It's also why the "remove evil through aasimar" thing is stupid.
>>23478275While your ideas make sense, you're looking at things from a LG paladin's view. What about the CG swashbuckler who don't give a damn about the rules but does neat things because it makes sense to him? Or the NG freedom fighter who just wants to free his country from a tyrant's rule? Not every good guy is going out to descend into hell and smite everyone.
>>23478232pic>>23478237wish i had enough skill to do that
As long as we're working in the pseudo-Christian framework of Good (as most people in this thread seem to be doing), wouldn't the Good counterpart to the succubus/incubus be your faithful wife/husband?
>>23478053That is kind of the point... Vikings die sword in hand, hoping to have died gloriously enough attract the attention of the Valkyries. If they do, they will be transported to Valhalla, where they will become einherjar, training and drinking 'til Ragnarok comes. The Valkyries tend to do a lot of mead-serving as well.I don't recall if the einherjar were supposed to fight particular foes of Asgard, or help with all of the various giants and maybe act as fodder for Fenrir before he slays Odin. While looking it up, I came across this: "Valkyries also appear as lovers of heroes and other mortals, where they are sometimes described as the daughters of royalty, sometimes accompanied by ravens, and sometimes connected to swans or horses."So in other words, OP, you want a a Valkyrie. Here's an idea: when a good character dies in battle -- and how else do most PCs die if not pissing off the DM -- then he may become the chosen of a valkyrie. If he is resurrected, perhaps the valkyrie travels back to the material plane as well to stay with him. Sure, she's waiting for him to die again so he can get right back to an eternity of joyful service training for the end of all, but she could also be willing to further his earthly glory and training by helping him in adventures as a cohort.
>>23478359I would think they hold similar views. Chaotic Good realizes that his strength exists for the sake of others (very Kord-like), and the Neutral Good freedom fighter realizes that these gifts were given to help realize the dream of liberty and not to serve his own desires.
>>23478088The succubus shows up at your door and makes you an offer: twenty murders for twenty minutes. If you go through with your end of the bargain, guaranteed she'll hold up hers.After you get maimed horribly saving a village from a dragon, the most beautiful woman you've ever seen approaches you and declares her fetish for triple amputees. She's gone the next morning, and you never realize she's a houri.
>>23478374In theory, yes, but OP was looking for a celestial variant to the succubus/incubus. Something exotic with similar bells and whistles, but doing things for the sake of good instead of evil.
I assumed that was what eladrin did. They were followers and practitioners of free love, and while archons, guardinals, and aasimon demand you wait, eladrin are as eager for a good time as you are.
>>23478259Same axis, different sides (false vs true love in this case). I think the good versions would be rarer in the mortal realm. I suppose the good version of a lemure would be a kind of genius loci of some great act of heroism. The kind of thing states are built around. Long after those who delled there passed the fragments of their good spirits linger, refined to a kind of inmatterial good that is collected and used to expand the ranks of heaven. They'd probably manifest as a surge of morale or a shield against evil. Something basic that could almost be passed for coincidence.
>>23478434That's IF he comes back.
>>23478435Yeah, but they're not all smiting demons.
>>23478499No, but they're all equally interested in propagating altruism in the world. I never said that LG guys have to storm hell or something like that. It's just that your rewards are actually a new set of responsibilities, and I think that's true for any variation of good.
>>23478434"it's not like i'm in love with you or anything, i just don't want to miss your soul when you get yourself killed again"alternatively"you thought you could leave? no, i claimed your soul, that means that it, and you, belong to me, and i won't let any other valkyrie have you"
>>23477347I believe we've had this discussion before. If Foolz wasn't down, I'd just copypasta my thoughts from then, but I'll try to re-write some of them.Basically, trying to make it about sex will fail. Part of the connotation of 'evil' is also 'base desire'. You want something, you take it. That's the core at which a succubus works you want sex, you take, it, you're punished with drain because of it.The best way to represent a 'reverse/light succubus' is rather than making it about sex, making it about love. My idea from the last thread was an angel that seeks out undead, and infuses them with positive energy from her companionship. Her constant presence lets them experience life as they have not been able to - the taste of an apple, the feel of air on skin - if they are charming and repentant enough, perhaps even the touch of a lover. She distracts and adds energy to the negative energy wells of liches, wraiths and vampires until they eventually lie down and die, suffused with holy energy and unwilling to move forward with unlife with what they have lost in life still fresh to them. then she takes their soul and guides it to the afterlife.Or something like that.
>>23478531So this celestial cohort would point good-aligned characters towards places where good can be performed, assuming the character doesn't notice it already?
Ok, let me see here...As far as religions where sex can be a reward for doing whatever that religion considers good, there's the seventy virgins, and a few religions had a concept of Sacred Prostitution. Not necessarily a sex thing, but it could be depending on the deity/tradition. Also, some stuff points to angels having wives, as in a heavenly harem. I remember a reference to Samael implying he took Lilith as a wife after she fled from Eden.Or, you could just have it as a sort of Karmic balance. Do good, and the world in general gives you more opportunity to collect those waifus that some people seem to love so much. Cute and/or sexy girls that might fall for you, if you can work out the drama along the way. Evil just gives you a succubus that wants to eat your soul during sex, Good gives you a possibility for a happy family.
>>23478543Or even better, "Damn, you died like a champ! Lets go do that again, I haven't had this much fun in ages!"
All this valkyrie talk has me wanting to play an beautiful female Aasimar Bardbarian, howling melodic songs of battle, urging my allies to never give less than their all, lest my sisters leave them to rot when they die.
>>23478595Something like that. You can say the abilities like "Detect Evil" and such are supposed to fill this role. An appropriate cohort might be something like a Lantern Archon which guides the hero to where he is needed most.
>>23478622did she just kill me with sex then wait for my daily valhalla rez to do it again?
>>23478626I have a almost-related picture
>>23478646give the lantern archon a vagina and /tg/ is in
>>23478626That'd be fun to play along aside.
>>23478646How often should these cohorts show up in the world? People kill for the opportunity to have celestial guidance.
>>23478359I'd think they'd get different spirits. besides CG and NG tend not to get a ton of divine help anyways, why it's paladins who get all the nifty interventions on their behalf. But theres no reason a GC or NG god wouldn't be able to do the same thing for someone who exemplifies their path.I think the GC would be almost like a minor lady luck, helping nudge things along for you and cheering you to new liberty, good, and badassery. A bards might be a minor muse and for a barbarian a war spirit.NG is harder but still I think it would work the same in your example it might be the fighters own lady liberty. In effect it'd be a kind of companion and guardian spirit, mostly out of the way but gives the player a nudge forward when things get sticky be it morally or practically. could be a really nice way to run a 1 player game too now tha ti think of it...
>>23478699Generally these things go by "in their darkest hour" or something like that.
>>23478600> Do good, and the world in general gives you more opportunity to collect those waifus that some people seem to love so much. Cute and/or sexy girls that might fall for you, if you can work out the drama along the way. Evil just gives you a succubus that wants to eat your soul during sex, Good gives you a possibility for a happy family.I'm not too familiar with all of its tenants, but isn't this pretty close to Mormonism (back when polygamy was acceptable, at least)?
>>23477756>A paladin shouldn't have to be paladin'ing around just for the potential for celestial booty"Obey my commandments on Earth and I shall reward you in Heaven."
>>23478764Sort of. As I recall, the Mormon thing is that men who do good get a celestial harem, and women that do good get to be part of such a harem. No one gets that until they die and get their personal god planet to rule over though, and I'm assuming that the waifyu karma thing would be a reward that you can get during the quest.
>>23478434>I don't recall if the einherjar were supposed to fight particular foes of Asgard, or help with all of the various giants and maybe act as fodder for Fenrir before he slays Odin.The last bit, they're an army in training for Ragnarök.And you might not haver to die in battle to become part of them, that's probably part of Christianity seeping in, left to his own Oden will quite happily pick whoever he damn well wants, regardless of how you've died. Or if. Things can be arranged...>>23478600>Also, some stuff points to angels having wives, as in a heavenly harem.Angel/human mixing there can lead to meteorological issues though, and improbable acts of shipbuilding.
>>23478807BIblical morality seems to actually be less strict and demanding than what most DMs here seem to consider as the minimal baseline for Good.
>>23478662No, she saw you die a warriors death and was so impressed she rezzed you so you could do it again. It fits the personality of a war angel/barmaid to the godly feast hall more than some retarded yandere shit if you ask me.
>>23478699when the gods look down and decided your team good's MVP this time around.
>>23478626I would totally play a barbarian alongside that. Fuck, just go all barbarian party, play it like Conan or the Chaos faith from Lords of Magic with people riding tigers and talk of battlescars and glory all over the place.Mostly I just want to ride a fucking tiger into battle.
Beautiful angels who come to lock you in holy chastity belts?
>>23477756Arent paladins the gods answer to succubi? They un-fall fallen angels and redeem demons with their lawful good dicks, right?
>>23478910>play it like ConanSo, take levels in Thief and Aristocrat?
>>23478945WoaThat explains everything(or at least the CHA requirements in 2e)
>>23478945Paladins are usually mortal, though. OP was asking for a cosmological parallel to the succubus. People haven't quite settled on an answer yet.
>>23478945>Arent paladins the gods answer to succubi? They un-fall fallen angels and redeem demons with their lawful good dicks, right?Paladins are actually ideal as roving sexual evangelists.- Immune to disease- Lay On Hands is a perfect ice-breaker- High Charisma required- Pokemount helps, cause bitches love a man with a pimped out ride
>>23479038Depends on their deity, though, and besides, you could always get a priestess to help with that.
Sure is one-dimensional morality in here. Anyways, OP - what you're looking for exists in mythology and is actually pretty common. Hell, it arguably exists in the real world.If you feel you aren't being rewarded for your worthy acts in life, you are either doing the wrong thing or wanting the wrong thing.
>>23479023>Paladins are usually mortal, though.And imbued with godly power. Since so many angels fall when they hit the mortal realms, the gods decided to just work with whats already there.Less risk, greater reward, demons dont get killed, everyone wins.
>>23479058It's good to work in teams, like the Holy Trinity itself, or like a man and wife who have finally enticed their babysitter to witness the joys of holy matrimony up close & personal.
>>23479076Thats probably because in any non-trivial morality system angels and demons as they are commonly known have no place except for strawmen and or demonstration of black white morality.
>>23477347I guess they'd be Demons who fly/run around wearing silk and having feathery wings and sheep horns/no horns? They would find EVIL people and tempt them with offers of marriage and then convert them to good through tender, loving, gentle sex that's so good it GIVES exp instead of draining it. They would be Milfs and would be focused on rehabilitation.
>>23479423I think that's what OP was shooting for, but the rest of the thread went on their own tangents.
A divine succubus would be like the celestial wingman who convinces you to keep searching for your true soul mate and to resist giving into temptation. He'd show up when young men are feeling down and sad, thinking "To hell with it all! I'll just summon a demon and lose my virginity that way!" and then.. He'd show up. A man amongst men who would sit down beside the downtrodden young man and pat him on the shoulder. Offer him some kind words and some words of wisdom, about the sweetness of the reward. How waiting and preparing one's self over time, instead of just trying to hurry and get some, just for the sake of the act itself.Then he'd ride off into the sunset, or something.
>>23479423Sure they wouldn't have nurse outfits then? Lets hope it doesn't grant temp hp though. We all know how that one ends.
>>23478840Actually, Christianity has nothing to do with it.Only those who died in battle were deemed brave enough to even attempt Ragnarok. Alternatively, it was kind of a second prize; sure, you lost the battle, and your wife is being raped while your kids are being gutted, but hey, you're in Valhalla bitch!Also, the chosers of the slain were notorious whores-they're the "hand" maidens of Odin for fuck's sake.
>>23479285I think you will find that angels and demons are quite at home in any sufficiently sophisticated morality system. Pretty much any genre will confirm this.
>>23479665Not as most people see them, as beings of pure good / evil. For any of a number of reasaons articulated in those generas.
What about Valkyries?
>>23482445I don't remember much about them except that they bring great warriors to Valhalla when they die and serve the mead there.
>>23482477I wanted to make a game about a Valkyrie who's like "you know what, I've got a lance, a flying horse, cool winged helm and armor, I can actually kick ass too with lightning and shit... why the fuck am I serving mead to these idiots?" "Get back to the kitchen, woman" "NO U" *banished to Hel*
>>23478177>one loving and devoted partner.Clearly someone has no idea of well-implemented polyamory.Also, this thread.
>>23482445One guy from earlier in the thread recalled that Valkyries are often portrayed as the lovers of heroes, or as princesses, in the mortal world. Instead of going with the usual "die in a blaze of glory in battle", if the PC is particularly heroic (or shows great potential) it might be that Odin wants him for his army, and he might find himself waking up to a Valkyrie insisting on joining the party.>>23479423This is hot. It sounds awesome. How would they be called though?
>>23482583This. Do you even Altruism? The path is the reward.
>>23482642Play high-CHA, CG/NG character. Get bitches because you want coitus. Save the world because saving the world.
>>23477347Go by the Shin Megami Tensei concept of the Angel, each human is assigned one at birth. Also add: It will be opposite gender of human assigned to and will be eternal partner in afterlife if one does good deeds.
>>23479696A succubus isn't a being of pure evil, it's a being of pure carnality (usually with a strong emphasis on depravity and perversion of god-given urges).I know you said demons and angels, but OP was asking about succubi and possible Good counterparts, which is different.
>>23482642The real reason behind altruistic acts for the most part is self-preservation. If you die you can at least provide a future to your kin from your sacrifice for them. It's all about keeping the bloodline alive.
You mean like a guardian angel?
>>23482583That should really read "A good person". Intelligence and decency have nothing to do with each other.
>>23483648See, the implication of the post is that virtue comes automatically with reason. That's the entire point.
Hmm, well if doing good things for the wrong reason (i.e. sex) is evil, then could rewarding people who do good deeds be a valid strategy for demons? Money, fame, sex, power, save be yours if you save people and help others, but those doing it only for the reward aren't helping the cause of good at all. People could be easily tempted away from the rewards-later religions. Plus who would help the paladin hunt down the pretty girl with the angel wings paying and having sex with do-gooders.
>>23483500by this theory, does the angel gain corruption/holiness whenever the human does? Because that'd bring some weird new twists to OPs questionI like what people have said about Valkyries, but I think a "good counterpart" to a succubus would be slightly more ephemeral. Something like what people have said earlier in the thread or >>23483598 . An entity who exists to help you along the right path/help shoulder the burden if it's a little too much
>>23477826That's a good idea. I might use something like that in my next setting if you don't mind.
>>23483519More usually it's about keeping the community or human race as a whole alive. People will make crazy sacrifices for their children of course, but altruism as a whole is a much broader imperative.
>>23483786That would depend on the type of person. If someone saw the rewards as extras on top of the whole "I helped an old lady across the street" it wouldn't work, but if the rewardee started to associate the deed with the reward, the rewarder could easily change the deed
>>23483814This is something that's always bothered me about the term "altruism". Very rarely does one encounter an action that's entirely, wholly altruistic. Like, even mother teresa or whatever wanted to get herself to heaven. That's an intrinsically selfish goal, even if it was accomplished in very selfless ways. Just something I think about occasionally
Why not just literally a succubus, but good? A shapeshifter who goes around the world tempting mortals, but tempting them into good things.Like, the king just got this ravishingly beautiful new courtesan, who seems to have great power over him. But instead of pushing him towards war or debauchery, she's convincing him to build orphanages and fix the potholes on main street.Same means, different goals.
>>23483854>Like, even mother teresa or whatever wanted to get herself to heaven.Yeah I don't really think it works like that. I'm willing to be that the concept of good or a right way to behave that conflicts with your personal gratification predates religion by a long way.
>>23478203Oh thank god I'm not the only one. Although My sentiments are shared with >>23478281 , I just saw that shoop in passing and thought it was hilarious.
>>23483898A succubus who can't get laid because of spaghetti pockets. She takes out her sexual frustration by violently and zealously attacking the unchaste.
>>23478583So, sort of like a hostess club compared to a flat out brothel, huh?
>>23483854If you do good things just because you like to think of yourself as altruistic, is that altruistic?What about to make other people call you altruistic?
>>23483929this is how i succubus
>>23483854And who among us can't say they did the "right" thing simply not to feel guilty? I know I have, and I'd say that counts as selfish, my main goal was merely to not feel bad.>>23483898>Oh yeah, nothing turns me on like alms for poor...>YES! YES! KEEP GIVING AND I WON'T BE ABLE TO CONTROL MYSELF!That's pretty much what I'd imagine the good succubus would do- use lust and sex to motivate good actions. Even if you say good can't be good if it was done for a reward, and is not true, "pure" Good, I'd say that the same goes for a regular succubus. They use sex as a motivation, which isn't the same thing as true, "pure" malicious Evil. In either case, the core motivation was horniness, which I'd call neutral. The point is what ends were achieved via horniness.
Didn't 4e DnD recently introduce the Angels of Love? The heavenly original source of Succubi, before the fall?
>>23483937I'm not saying it's right or wrong, merely that it's something to think about.>>23484002That'd depend on what version of "good" you're going for. Some moralities see any expression of lust beyond the necessity to procreate or outside of a loving, monogamous bond to be evil in and of itself. You'd have to solidify the moral framework you're working in before claiming that a succubus for good could be...well, essentially that
>>23477375Which makes sexual acts involving pleasing a partner innately good.
>>23483937Even the most altrusitic people are altruistic because they want to be. Nothing isn't selfish.
>>23484092She goes down on you, you go down on her. Anything else, your Paladin falls.
>>23484040This makes sense, as the most magnificent demons are those corrupted from heaven's ranks.
>>23484065That's why I specified that I come at this from a framework where lust isn't inherently good or evil, but neutral....For that matter, I consider very few things inherently good or evil, personally. The point is whether your actions caused others to be better off or worse off. So sex enjoyed by all, good. Rape, evil.
>>23477347My minor problem with this is:It's suppose to be harder to be good than Evil. Evil gets plenty of amazing rewards here and now, in return for damnation later. Good has it rough on earth, but gets their rewards in paradise.I feel that Celestials sexually rewarding people for being Good is a bad idea. It's more appropriate if the Paladin encounters...I don't know, a hot Cleric girl, or a ghaele eladrin whom he happens to fall in love with, you know? I don't mind the idea, but it just sits wrong to me: It kind of makes things too easy, is what I'm saying.
>>23477548Strangely enough most religions with hell have heaven too.Good people do get rewarded even if the main attraction of being good is not getting punished.
Well, given the existence of Quedesha and Hierodules, a divine sexual being isn't exactly weird.
>>23484229actually, it's kinda funny. Many of the earlier polytheistic religions didn't really have a "heaven". Sure there was a place you went after you died if you lived well/heroically that was SLIGHTLY nicer than standard life, but not all angels, rainbows, and fluffy clouds. Hell, even the Elysian Fields were, at best, just a nice field where you didn't have to do the shit you had to do in Hades
So, if love shouldn't be used as a reward, is the local Deity of Love out of a job?
>>23484611Of course not. If the deity of love says you get bitches for a job well done, then you get bitches for a job well done.
>>23484847So Heavenly Bitches would be the minions of the Deity of Love."Go my bitches! Redeem people through awesome sex!"
>>23477347No OP. Sex is evil and forces of good would never use it.
Muses would probably be the Good Succubi.If you wanted a sexual element, just make them very liberated and greatly enjoy sex.
>>23484129Paladins must be prepared to eat out.
>>23482583>>23482642We already discussed those exact words time and time again in this thread.You SHOULD only do good for the sake of doing good, but that does nothing to change the fact that shit like 72 virgins is supposed to await you in the next life for doing the right thing.
>>23484974Ooh, I like this idea. For the sexual aspect you'd probably want Erato and Sappho.While the Succubus relies on tempation, the Muse relies on inspiring. Nice contrast.
>>23483854See, you are half right about that.Even if you arent looking to get into heaven or anything, you are still getting something out of altruism. You just value that warm fuzzy feeling you get for helping people and being called a hero more than you value material wealth. No one willingly parts with something they have without getting in return something they consider to be of equal or greater value, even if that something is intangible.Doesn't make them any less of a great person, though.
>>23484939Even the Old Testament calls bullshit on that one.They just required monogamy.
There's also the Apsara from hindu and buddhist mythology.And Nymphs.
>>23484939If sex is wrong i don't wanna be right!>implying i have sex.
>>23477347>Sup /tg/. I'm trying to come up with a Good counterpart to the succubus - something that rewards people for being Good, instead of tempting them to be Evil. The nearest mythological equivalent is the Houri, the virgins of the Islamic afterlife.But Islam is evil.
>>23485087The kind of "monogamy" that allowed fucking your slaves.
>>23485237And killing you slave-wives if you get bored of them.
This thread has led me to a conclusion.I might one day include special cohorts for paladins and other extremely goodly characters.Only they start off as total 1/10s. Ugly, skinnyfat, bad personality, smell awful, the works.The more good deeds the paladin does, and the grander the scale of those good deeds, the more attractive and likable the cohort becomes. If the paladin stops doing good deeds when it is still within his power to continue, the cohort begins regressing.
>>23485257>an ugly old hag who uses magic to lecture you on behaving properly and eventually turns into a hot bitch the better you actSo, Nanny McPhee?
>>23485257Your post made me happy. Your image made me sad
>>23485237Slaves were always a bit of an exception.Hell, the Catholic church was even funnier on their stance. they assumed that whores were the only way to keep men from running around raping everything in sight, even having church run whore houses(talk about a holy fuck).
>>23477347>The nearest mythological equivalent is the Houri, the virgins of the Islamic afterlife.I'd go with them. You could even fluff Succubi to be fallen houri.
>>23477375>Sorry, anon, sexual pleasure for oneself is innately Evil due to being an entirely selfish gratification.So if you sexually gratify your partner, you're actually doing good.
>>23485063Thanks you very much. I feel a muse role that comforts the weary or inspires the leaning removes the issue of obliged sex. While still potentially involving romance, which the OP wants. If you like the idea, always feel free to use it.
>>23485285Religion was so much cooler back in the day. Fucking fire and brimstone and killing people.>>23485237>>23485256Admittedly many early cultures took a funny view of monogamy. Roman culture, for example, saw it as perfectly okay for a husband to go fuck prostitutes.
>>23477375heh.../tg/'s virgin is showing
not ONE mention of Eirnese or whatever the fuck they are caledIt is literally what this thread is about
>>23485309So if a Succubus rides a Paladin to completion and he toughs it out, is she dragged back into the pit for her altruism?That paladin is going to have to come up with a one liner pretty fast.
>>23485324>Admittedly many early cultures took a funny view of monogamyThey took the correct view considering it's their terminology. We just happen to apply it to human sexuality and all relationships outside of marriage a well because of our fixation on sex.
>>23485257That's...Kind of terrifying.
I think the idea of an “anti-succubus” is kinda boring. It just makes both sides seem shallow and one-dimensional if all they are is recolored sprites of each other.Though I do like the Valkyries idea where some sort of goodly celestial being drops down from the heavens to ensure you are walking the proper path in order to get your eternal reward.
I have the weirdest fetish of paladins "purifying" a succubus.
>>23485382You're just a romantic, anon. It's okay.
>>23485285Sacred Prostitute is still the coolest 3e PRC.
>>23485348Wait, are you talking about the Erinyes? The winged goddesses of vengence from greek mythology which were turned into devils in DnD?
>>23485354>lawful>good>dickingsA succubus who fucks a paladin ALWAYS gets redeemed. They're the natural predators of demons of all variety, including desire demons. They're also the only people with enough charisma to impress a succubus and enough holiness contained in their rod of might to redeem them.
>>23485382>paladins "purifying" a succubus.Best Paladin Quest. Ever
>good can never be rewarded thats not the point of good!why?
>>23485382Eh. I have the fairly commonplace fetish of succubi corrupting (female) paladins (+ for physical transformation or mutation, obviously).
>>23485396Was also a regular class in Testament.
>>23485382>holy dickings>the weirdest fetishI can show you the world...But seriously, that shit is fairly common round these parts. Theres even a doujin out there about exactly that.
>>23485467>Theres even a doujin out there about exactly that.Go on.
>>23485478>>23485500Dude dicks a succubus until she becomes an angel, that's all the info I got on the matter. Me looking it up for you would be about as successful as you doing it yourself at this point.You could always dump some pictures of angels/succubi on /d/ and make a request for it.
>>23485257And if the paladin falls, it leaves.Or at least you hope so.No paladin in the land has ever taken the risk, lest the cohort becomes some sort of immortal celestial mother-in-law.
>>23485467>There's even a doujin out there about exactly that.Where. DEAR GOD MAN, WHERE?!
>>23485382Guy in one of my campaigns did that in the previous adventure in our current world. His paladin redeemed a succubus and married her. Then he became a god for something else, but that's another story.
>>23485513Sounds like Fuck her gently.
How do you redeem a succubus anyway? And is she still a succubus at that point?
>>23485563Well those are interesting philosophical questions that open up great role-playing opportunities in the Trapping a Succubus And Then Fucking Her Until She Learns to Love Holy Dick campaign.
>>23485563you give her the most mind-blowing sex of all time, whist constantly resisting drain, and refuse to give her further dickings until she changes her ways.
>>23485563succubi are actually masochists and smite evil can be used with an unarmed attack
>>23485563Risen succubus yeah. If angels can fall demons can rise.
>>23485639Is there a thing like that in BoED? It sounds like a thing that one could find in BoED.
There is, it's called a cupid.Instead of giving you sex, it leads you to your one true love.Which then gives you sex.
>>23485754Also fucking a cupid would be highly immoral.
>>23485257And when you have a 10/10, and do a good deed, it flips around and you get a second cohort, who starts out as a 1/10.
>>23485754>>23485863Reading up on cupid, he sounds more like an indirect succubus.
>>23485863Why? Even the givers of love gotta get some sometimes. I'd think it'd just be much more difficult. Cupids have probably seen many good romances fall apart, so they'd be incredibly cold. It'd be a challenge worthy of a great paladin of love
>>23485921Since he's a he, wouldn't that make him an incubus?
>>23485863Wasnt Cupid originally Hermes? Nothin wrong with fucking Hermes.
>>23485893Who is dommed by the 10/10.
>>23477775OP, I'd say that this checks out.It'd have to be kept a secret, though, naturally.
>>23485993western/"modern" religions have a funny way of kinda...subsuming bits and pieces of older religions. Made them more...user-friendly to new converts back in the days. As an easy example, Jesus was probably born in the summer, but Christmas is in the winter to coincide with Saturnalia. Same with Easter/Passover/many pagan spring festivalsI make no comments on the accuracy or inaccuracy of Christian religious tradition, just it's often hilarious overlap with "pagan" festivals
>>23478024Yeah, it's called a wife.
>>23478154Well, Belldandy is a japanification of Verdande, which can be translated to existing. She's an evil goddess (Jotun) of the present tense.Like the greek fates, in a way, only kind of evil. OTOH, they didn't pick sides during Ragnarok.
>>23486211weren't the fates just personifications of Fate in a larger sense though? If that was the case, it'd make sense that they didn't pick sides. Theirs was to measure fated time, not decide upon it
>>23486075Oh I know. Sort of like how they threw in a post-Ragnarok heaven into Norse myth. I was just saying that Hermes was a bit of a manslut. He had nothing on Zeus, but he was still impressive enough to get his half of the word hermaphrodite.
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Aeric_DaliaThat is all
>>23486256No, the norse fates (The Norns) were Jotnir, the whole lot.But this is Norse mythology, Aesir, Vanir and Jotnir were more political brandings than metaphysical ones. They were all the same species, so to speak.
>>23486305The world being reborn is not a specifically Christian thought.You could probably find it in several other pre-Christian religions.
>>23486305>Sort of like how they threw in a post-Ragnarok heaven into Norse mythand sort of like how they threw christian imagery into stories that were probably told before Christianity came to the northlands
>>23486506>story exists for a long time>they show up and change it>claim their way is the only right onechristianity is disney
>>It's suppose to be harder to be good than Evil.This. If the Divines handed out immediate rewards for good deeds than the world would immediately be a better place. The people wouldn't be any better but the world would be. Then there is the problem of evolving morality. What is good is subject to change. So when you have beings on high that hand out awesome sex in exchange for what is good than what is good will never change. Imagine if the common perception of good from 2000 years ago was frozen in time because God sent angels down to give blowjobs. We would find that society deplorable today. Not only that but there would be much less advancement in any field. Scientific progress is pretty neutral. Scientific progress would slow to a crawl when anybody could do typical good deeds for pleasurable rewards.
>>23486396Redeemed succubi always kinda bored me, especially ones who actively sought out redemption.I would rather read a story about a succubus who ran away from hell but hates the idea of enslaving herself to goodly dogma as well, so she just putters around the mortal planes as an eternal fugitive, pretending to be a barmaid and skimming a few years off of the lives of adventurers here and there, occasionally pretending to be repentant so she can hide behind a starry eyed, naive paladin and doing whatever it takes to stay two steps ahead of any angel or demon who would send her back to hell. She knows she will be caught eventually and tortured for all eternity for her transgressions, but the freedom she has now is worth it to her.
I like the idea of a whorehouse full of aasimar or half-celestials and the like. They fill a role sort of like Inara from Firefly; sex, meditation, contemplation, psychiatrist. It's harder to have your walls up when you have no pants on. They go in, get their jollies, and as the pretty boy/girl/whatever lies with them afterwards, they talk, deal with issues(seriously, adventurers probably have redonk PTSD).
>>23486667>So when you have beings on high that hand out awesome sex in exchange for what is good than what is good will never changeYet there are succubi, and evil has changed as much as good.
>>23485993No cupid and Hermes are differentCupid was an actual character in mythology
>>23486733but why not allow her a happy ending where she's redeemed by a paladin who honestly has fallen for her
>>23486813Not him, but I simply dislike the idea of a redeemed succubus as well. They are not heavenly creatures, and inherently conflict with the idea of "Lawful" means, at least in a fantastical sense.
>>23486861Does that mean you also dislike fallen angels?
>>23486874Nah, that makes sense to me.
>>23486813Because that is still a bad end for her. She is now a servant of good instead of a minion of evil.A good ending for her would be a nice quiet home out in the middle of nowhere, with a tree to sleep against and meadow to watch the wind dance across the grass. Where no one would bother her and where she could live like a person rather than a soul-sucking parasite.But alas, no such place exists and most certainly not for a succubus.
>>23478053Yes, Valhalla was statted out as chaotic good in AD&D
>>23486895Actually, I suppose it depends. Angels have this tendency to just be one thing; a human with big wings and some magic to work. They don't seem to be fleshed out and varied nearly as often.
>>23486733That's still a redeemed succubus though. She's just been deemed Neutral rather than Good.
>>23486861>>23486907Ah. Okay, let me correct my statement then. Why not allow for a good ending where she is redeemed and FREED by a paladin/adventurer that has legitimately fallen for her, and she for him. Maybe he quits adventuring and they open a bakery in a small, scenic town somewhere. I'm a sucker for happy endings.
>>23486968Supernatural entities tend to be long-lived. She might do that multiple times, even. But in turn, he loses favor of his god and withers away, and afterwards she has to move on again before some old buddies catch up.
>>23483500what about gay people?
>>23487061I imagine this sexualized twist would bring about an entirely new and human angle to the creature; giving a sense of life and individuality, as it adapts and conforms to your life, just as you do, to reach a level of an idealized counterpart. Of course, then it strips away this idea that it is a "reward for doing good" - of course, if you do good for the reward, it is no longer good nor altruistic, but self-interested, and human.
>>23487061Paperwork.Lots of paperwork.
>>23486991>supernatural entities tend to be long-livedstop making me sad
>>23487129>gay people=heavenly paperworkThis explains so much
>>23477826I like this.
>>23486907You should check out Planescape: Torment, one of the characters is a Succubus who won her freedom and started up her own buisness.A brothel of slaking intellectual lusts.So she's got various girls who specialise in arguments, story telling, listening, games of strategy, etc.
>>23488164>A brothel of slaking intellectual lusts.I would frequent this so hard
>>23488164Wait...so you go there and slake merely intellectual lusts, or intellectual and physical lusts. Either way it's awesome, but if its both...hell, I'd never leave
>>23488252Intellectual only. If it wasn't, she'd Fall again. So to speakNow play the gaaaaame!
>>23488252Well, some of the girls might agree to it, some have lovers, and I dunno about the one in the veil.Tamaxi (who specialises in degredation) will satisfy all your masochism for you.Grace herself? No, she's chaste. And a priestess. And Agnostic.
Story structure-wise, isn't the opposite of a succubus a princess, cheerleader, or any sort of "you-get-the-girl-at-the-end" scenario? Sure, they don't explicitly say "you get sex for doing good" but that's what it amounts to.From a perspective of narratives, Succubi only really serve as a form of temptation, usually in the form of something new and exciting.An actual sex hungry demon makes for a good chuckle around the gaming table, but there just really isn't a literary opposite.
What kind of powers should these "good succubi" have? healing seems to be a good idea, particularly I think remove curse and remove poision though very rarely. Rerolls?
>>23489215>jizzing the curse out of youi know i've read this doujin and it involved a loli, her older brother, staying home alone on a stormy night, and a spooky movie
>>23489313Oh yea, i think I've read that one as well. Although, IIRC the older brother was making shit up about the ghost going into his dick.
>>23489365yup, that's the one
>>23489215Assuming 3e?Apart from the energy drain, most things are simple.Detect good becomes detect evil.Summonning a vrok would instead summon something like a Lilend or Bralani.I'd replace the energy drain with the ability to cure disease by kiss, or act of passion, with the same chance to cause suggestion as a succubus.
>Good>Dictates people under the fear of smiting(negative reinforcement)>Evil>Dictates people under the vision of profits for oneself(positive reinforcement)Something is wrong here.Modern economy only works under the premise that everyone is a selfish dick.
>>23489114You really can't just assume "good for the sake of good since anything else is evil". If you dig into it, "Doing good deeds makes me feel good" is what it all comes down to. You might like the smiles, the gratitude, or even just the knowledge that you helped make others lives better, but it still comes down to making yourself happy.If we instead consider a good person to be one whose happiness is linked to that of others in that way, then the rewards are no longer questionable or evil. It does make good and evil that much more similar when so many systems or societies try to pretend they aren't, but, well...In the end they kind of are.
This thread gave me an idea:If I'm ever playing a Table Top RPG, and I'm a paladin who encounters a Succubus, I'm going to give her a hot lawful dicking and redeem her.
>>23477862Yeah, and having a useful teammate helps you do more good. >>23478024This. Mind control, no matter how subtle, is no good as a "reward".>>23486936This is true, though Valkyries were level-0 goddesses with 20 levels of paladin, so they were LG.Anyway, the whole "celestial cohort" thing sounds a lot like the planar cohort ability the Thaumaturgist gets, though better. I also think it MIGHT be similar to exalted cohorts, though I haven't got the book in front of me.
Actually, this discussion has me thinking about cohorts and planar allies and shit... what would happen if a fire elemental and a celestial got it on and made a half-celestial/half-elemental? What would it look like? How would cold affect it with overlapping resistance/vulnerability to cold?
>>23490640wouldn't overlapping resistance/vulnerability just cancel themselves out, assuming they were the same degree?
>>23490733Actually, I re-read the entry in Manual of the Planes and unless I read something wrong the half-fire elemental is immune to fire with no corresponding vulnerabilities.
>>23490030>Thaumaturgistwhich book is this in>>23490640>>23490733>>23490917selective breeding my friends
>>23490945Uh... Dungeon Master's Guide? Planar cohort is so-so, considering that ECL is a bit stupid. I just combined the templates as-written, and the result is kind of terrifying.
>>23490640a holy fire elemental? jus ttyping that out begs the question why sarenrae doesn't have a bunch of these. I bet they'd eat most undead like a pile of leaves on a bonfire
This entire thread reminded me of something that came up in a stupidly long running campaign I played in that finally wrapped up last year.In it, one of the many recurring plot threads was Pelor. Now, the DM had an odd take on Pelor. (Not the stupid "Burning Hate" thing, though that did end up creating a whole lot of drama, but that's another story).It revolved around the fact that the sun kills plenty of people, sometimes people who did nothing to deserve it. And yet Pelor is completely willing to keep on shining, because of how many more people benefit from the sun. So Pelor ended up being a utilitarian, which kind of fit with his spot in the NG slot. His interest was in good, namely the greatest possible good.And because he was totally willing to kill some innocent people in the service of that greater good, it made some sense that he was also willing to manipulate, bribe, and extort people into acting for the benefit of others.Long story short, we did end up running into angels loyal to Pelor who served as reverse succubi, tempting people in critical positions (in most cases people like kings, though we did run into one that was shacking up with an archmage)Whenever we asked one of those angels if the person was really doing good, we got a bunch of different answers like "does it really matter?" or "sure, sometimes people just need a little push in the right direction." And on a good sense motive roll, the answers always pinged as some form of manipulation.
>>23492311A wheeling and dealing Pelor who sends out angel bitches to manipulate people into doing good? Huh. Never thought of that.
>>23492455sounds like the kinda God I wanna work for
>>23492473Pelor's face become's Ric Flair's face. What does your character do?
>>23492473That arc culminated in us having a very brief chat with Pelor (we were pretty high level, as I mentioned it was a stupidly long running campaign). He was surprisingly chill for a sun god.
>>23486968“I'm a demon of desire. I used to make men fall in love with me so hard they cast their very souls into eternal torment out of their love for me. What makes your love so different from theirs?”>Maybe he quits adventuring and they open a bakery in a small, scenic town somewhereMaybe she did that the first lifespan of when she ran away. And then after fifty years, pit lords burned down her bakery, turned her husbando inside out, and chased her across the continent before she was able to lead them right into a paladin order. While I like happy endings, a little Sisyphean Tragedy is nice, too.>>23488164She still has to worry about falling, but FFG is probably the closest thing to a win condition this hypothetical succubus could find.
>>23478237The opposite of a lemure is a lantern archon or whatever. Lantern archons are insanely powerful BTW.
>>23478445You know, if you're willing to commit 20 murders for 1/3rd of a typical sexual session, you can probably get rich (bank robbery or whatever) and support a normal woman in the same amount of effort and get sex erryday.
So heres my idea for a good "succubus" companion: a Heroic Muse. They appear to those who could do a great deal of good if they're willing to do the right thing, the dangerous thing, the brave thing and raw them towards it. If they accept then they're given some help to see things through to to end be it a noble death or glorious victory. As long as they follow the heroic path their muse will follow faithfully, and it is not unknown for them to become lovers in this life and the next.Statwise they would be like >>23489520 flipping the evil spell like abilities into more healing and buff type spells.
>>23483761>smart people do morally good things>stupid people do morally bad thingslolwut
>>23478275Guess That Quote: The reward for work well done is the opportunity to do more.
>>23478446Protip: evil is generally not done for the sake of evil. It's done for other motives - greed, lust, pride, vanity, etc.Unless you're Meleagant in Knight of the Cart, or Dick Dastardly.
>>23486907Just being a servant isn't a bad thing.
>>23489540I suspect capitalism could not work in a world of perfect people. A perfectly good man would not want to get money at the expense of another man losing it.Just like cops would be unnecessary in such a world (since no one would be doing things that would require peacekeeping officers).
>>23494142>Just being a servant isn't a bad thing.For someone who values absolute freedom it is.
>>23494235That tends towards drifting. Then you're never grounded.I would not suggest doing that. Unless you've got something like Shaman King's Wooden-Sword Ryu, where the whole character arc is finding some place you can feel at home.
>>23477347Assuming D&D here, but since you mention succubi and uppercase Evil, I'm pretty sure I'm on the right page.I think you're missing the point. The thing that being Good isn't about some sort of reward in the here and now. Good is about the promise after death. Paradise, eternal happiness and whatever lies beyond, yeah? Instead of becoming a chaos frog, another cog in Mechanus or one of the many types of tormented fiend, you get heavenly rewards.It's already covered and you're missing the point. Besides, I figure half celestials and aasimar indicate that natural love happens between celestials and humans anyway.
>>23494306Wanted fugitives tend to be drifters.
I believe he's talking about bladeplay.There is also "My Balls" (seriously that's the name of the manga) The guy gets a powerful succubus trapped in his balls and a loli daemonette companion. His Penis becomes like a sun rod later chapters.
>>23485518sorry post above was meant for thisI believe he's talking about bladeplay.There is also "My Balls" (seriously that's the name of the manga) The guy gets a powerful succubus trapped in his balls and a loli daemonette companion. His Penis becomes like a sun rod later chapters.
>>23488164I just had a revelation.This can be done IRL.This can be done in real life, and with all the lonely guys out there who wouldn't try?Surely they might call bullshit on you, but DUDE, the moneyz to be had in exchange of a much needed service!>An administrator, some girls and someone with a kickstarter.
>>23494502Well, that was the basic idea behind Geisha after all.
>>23494488but he can't actually fuck her or the world will end
>>23494502>This can be done in real life, and with all the lonely guys out there who wouldn't try?Hostess cafes. You essentially pay for companionship and bad tea.
>>23494566correct, but she does fuck him.[spoiler!]
>>23494573>Hostess cafes. You essentially pay for companionship and bad tea.The tea is fine.
>>23493887>smart people do morally good things>stupid people do morally bad things>lolwutThat's actually largely correct. Most crimes are impulsive acts by people with poor self-control, and our prisons are filled with mental retards.
>>23494806Except it's a lot more nuanced than that. A lot of incredibly bad things were done by incredibly intelligent people. Bernie Madoff didn't cheat people out of millions of dollars by being stupid.The real difference is that smart people do bad things intelligently, and stupid people do bad things stupidly.
>>23489365Satan, guide my cock?
>>23478024Why should they be exempt?
>>23496073>a paladin will never knowingly associatewith evil characters
There was an elite group of homosexual warriors in ancient Greece: the Sacred Band of Thebes.The idea behind picking 150 pedarastic couples was that homosexual love was more pure and less sexual than heterosexual love, and that two lovers would fight much better side-by-side than any other two buddies. In addition, a lover would be less likely to abandon his lover on the field and rout.I could see these angels working in the same way. They're not just fuck-buddies granted for good deeds; nor just guardian angels. They're assigned to people so that in binding with them, those people won't abandon their faith or turn to evil. Sex is part of the deal, but not the point.
>>234786269/10, would assault Fenrir with.
>>23486506I wish we had pre-christian Norse Mythology. My understanding is that everything we have is post-Christian.