Now, we mix up the silicon, having placed our mix receptacle on the scale and zeroed it.

This is a 10:1 20 grams of silicon to 1 gram of cure agent.

So for 100 grams of white, you mix 10 grams of red cure (that's the pigment color they added) the reason for the pigment is so that you can tell it you've mixed well. If you have a pink mix with white ribbons in it, you've not mixed it well.

This is unmixed... mix it till it's smooth and evenly pigmented. There cannot be any ribbons of white in it at all. Scrape the sides and such and you'll be in good shape.

Using a brush, apply the mixed mold compound to the surface of the mini parts embedded in the clay. The reason you don't just pour the mix in is because this has the chance to not get into the crevices. If this happens the mold will be incomplete, so brushing on a layer and working it into the surface of the mini pieces is critical.

A nice thick coat is needed here, don't rush it, you've got time. Most silicon mold compounds have a nice 20-50 minute pot life. Meaning you have plenty of time to brush this stuff on before it starts setting up.

>>4097623
GIANT WHALE CANNON

And here's the mold, setting up.

Now you're probably asking, WTF? What's all that shit in there making all those bumps.

Well, silicon mold material isn't cheap (91 dollars for a gallon) so I use best manufacturing practices and take old, beat up, or just molds I'm unhappy with how they turned out, chop em up with scissors, and mix them into the rubber mix. (chop fine or in long thin strips) and then put them into the mold frame (for strips I pour a nice layer on top of the mini pieces first, then add the old mold material and then fill the frame.

This makes a nice thick, firm mold and cuts down on how much fresh mold material you use.

Recycling will save you $$$ in this.

Molds can be chopped up and rechopped multiple times.

16 hours later... I disassemble the frame and flip the mold over exposing the clay.

Protip: invest in a cheap heating pad like what you'd use for a sore back or something, place the clay side down on the heating pad BEFORE you demold the frame and let the clay warm up a little. It'll be cold and stiff and you want to have it warm and pliable. (I'll explain why in a moment)

sorry fruit, /tg/'s on a dumb phase rigt now.

Okay, now it's time to remove the clay and the key pieces.

Important: You want to NOT demold the mini pieces from the silicon. They are supposed to stay embedded in the silicon so that they have a nice air tight seal for the next step in the mold process. This is precisely why I said NOT to apply mold release on the clay or mini pieces in this first step of mold making.

Gently roll the clay off, don't just peal it off. Rolling it off spreads out the force and usually gets any trapped pieces of clay out of the recesses in the mini pieces.

I am watching this thread with baited breath.

And behold, the first half of the mold is done.

Using a needle probe and an exacto knife go over the mini pieces carefully and remove any left over clay, and using the knife trim away any mold material that has snuck on top of the mini pieces.

As you can see in my pic here, some of the pieces show mold pink on top of the silver of the mini... this is bad. Trim carefully along the edges of the mini and carefully remove those pieces no matter how thin they look, they will fuck up your end product if you don't.

Yo, the entire process is here in image form for those who want to go somewhere where they can't use the internet.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5898/castinyerown.jpg

>>4098130
GIANT WHALE CANNON

Rebuild the frame around the now clay free bottom mold piece and go over it carefully making sure you've got every little bit of overage (that mold that snuck up what's not the top of your minis (the bits that were buried in the clay) and CAREFULLY but THOROUGHLY apply mold release to your mold, the mini bits, and the walls of the frame, taking especial care to get it into the key holes. If you neglect the key holes your next layer of silicon will get stick to it.

This stuff picks up details people, and that means it'll glue your two mold halves together if you don't apply this mold release.

Again, mold release can be spray silicon, or pure talc (not just baby powder... pure, unscented talc)

Important, if you can find a better material than the plasticine modeling clay I suggested, use it. But be aware, Silly Putty... do not use it. It's a silicon based material that WILL utterly fuck up your mold. It'll stick to everything and make a huge fucking mess. I speak from experience here. I tried it and it was a cluster fuck.

Now, just repeat the steps of applying a layer of pure mixed silicon mold material just like I did before, DO NOT brush it on the other mold half if you can avoid it, and definitely don't brush it around in the key holes. That will mix the mold release into the mold material and stick your two halves together.

Then mix in more fill material (again 60% new mold material to 40% old mold chopped filler at most)

And let sit 16-24 hours.

And Viola! 16 hours later...Delicious Pink Cake

Crack the two piece apart... and remove your mini pieces.

Congratulations... you now have TWO matching mold halves that you can pour plastic, white metal, or whatever into and produce minis.

>>4098366
Sir, you are god, I am going to make a list of the materials I need and start the process this weekend. You are a king amongst men.

>>4098366
Are you going to show us how to fill the mold now?

The only way I see of doing it is filling each half on their own and gluing the end results together to form a whole piece.

>>4098385
Yeah, that would be helpful

Now, the first model you do with a new mold is going to be shit. Just accept it.

Why? because you are going to have lots of little flappy bits of mold silicon left over from the mold process. The first mold should be done using the cheap method.

Lay out your two halves like a book with the inner edges facing each other and you just have to fold one over on top of the other for them to line up.

Pour some urethane plastic into each half, wait for it to bloom white, and slap the two halves together and put a stack of books on top of them to squeeze them together and force out extra plastic.

This will embed the little flappy bits in the plastic, and when it's ready to demold, it'll trim them off for you.

When that's done, you should have a mold that's 100% ready to now turn out thousands of copies of that mini before it wears out.

Here's the first molding of that tyranid hierodule titan. You'll see that that plastic film is nearly transparent... that's because it's super thin (about like paper) A bit of trimming with an exacto knife and you have a perfect collection of pieces to glue together.

This plastic is smooth cast 3000 which after demolding is ready to paint right out of the mold. It doesn't have the same needs for priming as metal does but can be primed if you want.

Any questions?

>>4098443
So you just... slap them together real quick? How messy is it?

>>4098469
not much, as once blooming begins the resin is not runny but goopey.

>>4098443
Do you need to apply a mold release agent to the molds before pouring the plastic on?

>>4098469
You see that desk? It used to be black...

Are you going to show us how to fill the mold now?

The only way I see of doing it is filling each half on their own and gluing the end results together to form a whole piece.


Good question.

The smooth cast 300 starts out thin as water, but when it starts to bloom (starts getting cloudy) it will have the consistency of thick molasses.

Just slap the two mold halves together, and press down on them and the excess plastic material will flow out the sides (think of it as a pb and jelly sandwich with too much jelly... when you put it together and push down the excess jelly comes out the sides)

Now, this is just for this first mold to remove the flappy bits I was talking about.

After that first pour, you need to cut flow holes into the pieces of the mold.
Two or more of them for each piece.

The reason for this is because 99.999% of you don't have a degassing system which can remove bubbles for you. So you're going to do side pours or top pouts.

Side pours are where the vents are on the sides of your mold pieces, top pours are where they're on the top

If I missed this in the other thread just tell me and I will reread them more thoroughly.

Could you give us an approximate total price to get this opperation started and other associated costs?

A list of all the materials and approx price would be fantastic.

I'm just throwing this out there because this guide is otherwise pretty perfect.

>>4098497
Now, here's a pic of two mold halves ready for a side pour.

The mold maker has cut vents into the mold material to let him pour directly into the mold.

>>4098497
what do you mean by "flow holes"? could you show us an example?

>>4098529
And here is the side pour demolded showing you why the vent was cut... you just trim off the vent material here.

Sometimes you have to cut more than one vent to let the air in the mold escape.

>>4098488

>>4098503 Total cost.

Okay, for the legos... 7 or 8 dollars *you probably have some from your childhood
`For a trial size mold max 30 and trial size smooth cast 300.

24.95 and 24.72 respectively.

This would give you enough material to do 2 to 3 molds of this size (This is a huge mini here and lots of parts) and enough plastic to cast lots of these big minis.

The scale is a scientific grade scale so $130.00

But hierodules sale for $30-$50 each I could turn out 50 of these and still have lots of plastic left over.

Question, could you modify the molds to create a sprue-like mold? Like, cut channels between the piece molds?

>>4098626
more cost stuff.

Now, that scale isn't a cheap one, and I do not encourage you to buy a cheap one, just buy one that can measure gram accurate or .1 gram accurate and has at least 300 gram capacity. You should be able to find a scale like that fairly inexpensively on ebay.

The modeling clay... $2.89 at a local art supply store

Popscicle sticks ... 500 for 3 dollars.

use paper cups for mixing stuff.


As to cleanup... Always do any manual pours over the top of the green lego base plate. It's exactly the right sort of plastic. Once the stuff sets white it'll peal right off. Lego plastic is nonporous and that means that the plastic will NOT adhere to it.

The plastic will however stick to nearly anything else. Glass, metal (if not highly polished), wood, you name it.

If you mix the silicon in glassware, use paper towels to wipe the glassware out thoroughly. Otherwise, when it sets, you'll have to cut it out with a razor blade then use 0000 steel wool to scrub the residue off.

>>4098497

So basically you cut channels connecting all the pieces in the mold, and then cut an entrance at the top or side that connects to one of the topmost pieces(and, by proxy, all of them)?

>>4098647
why would you do that when you could create whole models instead?

>>4098703
and thus create a sprue that you can fill from one or two holes instead of slapping two halves together haphazardly?

>>4098626
Thanks, that IS a great deal. Especially if I split it with friends.
>>4098647
You could probably do sprues but it would be a waste of plastic. The method GW uses is much different than this. However, the air holes you put into your mold are probably somewhat similar to sprues.

>>4098485
still need to know this

Do you need to apply a mold release agent to the molds before pouring the plastic on?

On this first casting.. no... but all subsequent ones, yes.

Remember, this first casting is to remove all the flappy bits. Once they're gone, yes, absolutely, mold release every 2 to 4 castings. You'll usually have some left in the molds between castings, so either just add light amounts consistently or refresh every 2-4 casts.

>>Sprues?
Sprues... yes. you could create sprues this way.

>>channeling.

Yes, more or less. Me I'd suggest cutting several entrances so that each is a collection of pieces not just one master sprue. This can be used to help let the gasses in the mold escape and prevent bubbles in the castings.

>>4098720You could probably do sprues but it would be a waste of plastic. The method GW uses is much different than this. However, the air holes you put into your mold are probably somewhat similar to sprues.

This is correct. You could create sprues, but why? It's wasteful because a large amount of your plastic goes into making worthless sprue lines.

Also, the plastic pieces you're thinking of are done using steel mold high pressure hot injected plastic.

that sort of plastic is cheap. This 2 part Urethane plastic is not.

Also, you're going to find that you're going to be making more minis than you can reasonably paint in a short period of time.

I also recommend that you not create large molds. Larger molds are hard to work with.

Small molds, small numbers of minis in a mould 2-5 max.

Do it this way and you'll be turning out superior replicas. There's no need to do sprues.

>>4098754
So, the first pour is what you posted a picture of in >>4098443

Every mold after that you... do what exactly?

What do you mean by this first pour removes all the flappy bits?

Forgive me if this seems like a lot of dumb questions that have already been answered.

Could you pass this stuff off as saleable on ebay?

>>4098820
not without GW suing your ass

>>4098820
Using replicas for personal purposes is okay, but selling them for profit is very bad mojo

>>4098820
I wouldn't count on that business lasting long.

Besides, such dishonesty!

If you were to do it you should try and market it as 'Warhammer figures recast in higher quality plastics', because its true and still sounds appealing.

But you will probably only have a tiny bit before you get stopped by the powers that be.

>>4098811 Questions that I already answered above.

Friend, please read the thread. You'll find that I've already answered these questions.

Yes, that was from my first pour.

Every casting after that you apply mould release and do a side fill as explained above.

flappy bits explained above, they are the extraneous silicon rubber bits on the interior of the moulds where rubber slipped in between the mini pieces and the other side of the mold.

If you try this process you'll learn what they are. If are just asking questions with no intention of trying to actually do this...then just read the above posts.

>>4098855
GW has a history of going after people selling counterfeit miniatures. I wouldn't suggest trying it.

GW even has strict regulations on how their products are sold online by other retailers (only mega distributers like amazon are allowed to sell their products, while smaller LGS websites must refer you to call and place orders via phone)

>>4098820Could you pass this stuff off as saleable on ebay?

No.

Yes they'd be perfect copies, but if you did, I'd laugh as they haul your ass into court.

Replicas for your own use, fine. You can mod them easier than metal. You can green stuff them, then make completely new models, then make molds for them and stuff... but trying to pass these off as GW stuff... Dude, not cool.

Dear OP: You should try heat-resistant epoxy casting rubber. It's got much better detail than silicone, and makes a neater mould that's damn heat resistant. Very simmilar technique to one you've just described.

>>4098920
Also, if you use this, you can cast in white metal (if you're a pussy) or lead.

>>4098932
Both of which are much cheaper, though also much harder to persuade to take perfect detail - also, problematic in terms of bubbles forming.

Okay, now one last piece of advice for Bear since he seems interested in trying this himself.

For the smooth cast stuff... I'd get smooth cast 305, not 300.

300 is a short pot life 2 part compound. 3 minutes or less if it's a quantity more than 12 grams total combines weight (a 20 gram mix started blooming within about 55 seconds lesser quantities bloomed at about the 2:30 to 3 minute mark.)

305 has a pot life of 8 minutes. Giving you more time to let bubbles out. Though it has a demold time of 30 minutes instead of 10 minutes.

I'd buy 2 moldmax 30 trials and 1 smooth cast 305 trial.

Also they have distributors, so don't just buy from the penn main store. Their shipping is expensive. A distributor will ship cheaper and faster.
>>4098920
Dear OP: You should try heat-resistant epoxy casting rubber.

Dude, this is tin cure silicon, it's fine for casting white metal.

>>4098893
Then I shall move to Chinaland

hey OP, are you going to archive this thread too??

Any more questions before I head off to grab something to eat and watch some Lost?

>>4098985
ben dies in the end.

>>4098983
I didn't archive the first two...someone else did... but yeah... sure.. I'll archive it.

vote for them if you like.

>>4098988
Already seen last nights ep...

Ha... you think getting shot in the heart would kill Ben?

Just like Locke didn't die by being shot in the kidney area... Ben won't die either.

After all, we should all know by now, Ben has no heart.

do you suppose you could post a pic of the mold with channels? the blue pic doesn't do the complex subject of the pink mold justice

>>4099005
you win this round op...

but ya thanks for the tutorial. these look nice, and much cheaper then buying Minis up the ass. or using coins/pieces of cardboard as ghetto looking placeholders.

how durable are these? do i need to take special care handleing them after their assembled?

>>4099026
I'm rather curious about this myself

>>4099005
>Ben has no heart

FFFFFFFFFF- IT ALL MAKES PERFECT SENSE NOW!!

>>4099026Channels in the pink mold

Haven't had time to cut them. If you check the times when I posted these, and figure in the 2 16-24 hour waits you'll find that I just finished the molds this morning. I did the casting before I went to work.

and waited till I got home to post this huge tutorial

No time to cut channels.

But seriously, just try it out for yourself, you'll figure it out. Besides, given my druthers I'd have rather cut this single mold up into like 4 or six smaller ones. I don't need all those weapon arms. I just was trying to show someone who requested a complex nid model being made into moulds.

Break them down into pieces and do multiple tiny moulds... it's the better way to do it.

>>4099126
then could you post a pic of a completed mold with channels? one with two or three forms? i'm just trying to eliminate as many rounds of screw ups as i can

>>4099029how durable are these? do i need to take special care handleing them after their assembled?

These are hard, durable, and very resistant to damage. Chances are they'll outlive you.

Plus they're solid.

The plastic is a PUR type thermo plastic. It's good up to 3100 psi of force, so you could throw the assembled mini at the wall and it's not gonna break. Try that with a solid metal one. Chances are the metal one will break into several pieces at the least, and bend multiple limbs.

In fact the plastic that makes these up is harder by far than the plastic used in GW's kits. .

>>4099221
in the first page of the tutorial i dont understand how you use the vacuum technique, can you try and explain it better?

>>4099221
>>4099221
so wait... its cheaper.... its more durable... and it keeps all the detail... why dont they just manufacture these?

>>4099297

They are cheaper for US to make. The plastic its self is not cheaper, it is far more expensive. Also economics of scale.

>>4099199

Friend, seriously, me showing you a mold with channels is NOT going to help you much.

Why? Because for one, each mold is different and you just have to use your head to determine where to cut.


The key to cutting vents and pour points is understanding how liquid flows.

If you stand the mini up on one side, you need your vents to flow UPWARD. But if you then rotated the mold 90 degrees... those vents would be useless because they'd flow sideways. Bubbles rise, so your vents must go UP.

So even if I show you how I vent one specific mini, it's not going to be applicable to what you do unless you arrange the SAME model in a mold the same way as I do.

Lemme give you an example.

Here are where I would cut channels for the thorax of the hierodule (see pic)

Why would I cut them there? Well, because you need to vent each of those three back spines so that they don't get a big air bubble in them. So the finished bug will have some trimming to be done.

when pouring that part, I'd orient the mold so those vents point up. Then when I pour the plastic in, the plastic sinks to the lowest point in that form and forces the air bubbles upward. The air exits through the other vents. when it's done, all the vents will be full of plastic and there'll be no air bubbles in that piece. All because of how the vents let the air escape.

See?

>>4099382

Although, it's a nice way to cast your own models, if you have any green-stuff sculpting skills.

>>4099297

Cheaper, and because it allows for easier modeling. This shit's probably harder to chop through with an exacto.

>>4099253
No, I have a vacuum injection system that I'm creating and trying to patent. So me discussing how I do it is not going to be happening here.

If you're interested in normal vacuum degassing instead of side pour or top pour methods... I'd suggest you look them up online. You can buy a vacuum degassing unit on ebay for a few hundred dollars, but you'd be better served creating a small army through side pouring, it's slower, and you have to do your pours in small batches, but you'll still be cranking out minis much faster than you can paint them.

The viscosity of smooth pour is such that vacuum degassing isn't really needed much.

>>4099458
what are the chances that you will make a video for this?

>>4099418
How big/thick should those vents be so that pouring in the plastic is easy without damaging the shape you have achieved?

>>4099528what are the chances that you will make a video for this?

pretty much zero

>>4099679
can we see the whole thing put together?

>>4099714 See it assembled?
Here ya go

neato!

Now do one of a standard 40k mini, preferably a standard non-spacemarine/ork troop model.

>>4100843
ummm...hows about you do it?

In case you missed it this costs time and money.

Now if you were paying me...that'd be different

>>4099418
and this is why i shouldn't ask questions at one a.m. i meant channels between pieces to minimize pour spouts, not between the edge of the mold and a piece. after some much needed sleep i realized i was asking about a sprue like structure and that that question had been answered. although now i won't miss channeling spots like the tail on my first go.

>>4099297so wait... its cheaper.... its more durable... and it keeps all the detail... why dont they just manufacture these?

Cheaper for us. For them, not so much. It's labor intensive and at a demold time of 10 minutes, you can only do 6 molds an hour, or at very most 48 molds in an 8 hour day. That's no where near fast enough for industry.
Yes it's more durable... but think about that. If they made them all as durable as this, then you'd never break or damage minis and thus would not buy replacements.

>>4099446Cheaper, and because it allows for easier modeling. This shit's probably harder to chop through with an exacto.
Actually no, toughness does not equal hardness. This stuff actually has some flex to it, and with a hair drier to heat it, you can soften pieces and bend them (try that with a metal mini) An x-acto knife cuts it readily enough, plus the mini material
is fully machinable without it melting on you.

>>4099551How big/thick should those vents be so that pouring in the plastic is easy without damaging the shape you have achieved?

1/16th to 1/8 of an inch, also make the vents attach to thick bits of the model. The reason is, thick spots on the model allow the liquid plastic to flow faster. If you put them on delicate spindly bits, you have less flow, more chance of air bubbles, and a worse chance of having the spindly bit get damaged when you snap off the flash and mold vents you poured.

Always remember, air flows UP out of a mold, when you pour, you want to ensure that the air has paths to escape, and that they are on the highest points on the mini. For example... let's say you are casting a spearman. He stands upright with his spear at his side.

You'd want vents at the top of his head and at the tip of the spear point since they are the highest points on the mini. If there were other features that were high on the mini such that air might get trapped in them, vent them.

But vents can be very tiny (for fine detail areas that you're never going to pour into and just need to let air escape, to big where the main plastic is injected or poured in.

Any other questions, people? Otherwise I'll be letting this slide to page 10 and live in the archive


Oh.. btw... I noticed a typo in post #2 of this thread.

This is a 10:1 20 grams of silicon to 1 gram of cure agent.

I don't know how I fucked that up .. but it should read 10 grams of silicon to 1 gram of cure agent.

I just noticed it and feel like a complete fucktard for missing that. My apologies.