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  • File :1211363767.jpg-(280 KB, 1120x1792, zz.jpg)
    280 KB WiseSage 05/21/08(Wed)05:56 No.1784851  
    How do I make a rogue BBEG?
    >> Clarence, Mage 05/21/08(Wed)05:57 No.1784855
    With the DnD 3.5 ruleset.
    >> That Damn Mouse 05/21/08(Wed)05:58 No.1784858
    Watch 'A Clock Work Orange'.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)05:59 No.1784862
    excuse my retarded newfagness, but what the FUCK does BBEG mean
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)05:59 No.1784863
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:00 No.1784866
    Big Bad Evil Genestealer
    >> Clarence, Mage 05/21/08(Wed)06:01 No.1784868

    Beer, Bum, Underpants, and Gay.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:01 No.1784869
    Big Breasted Eldar Guardian.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:02 No.1784875
    Big Brown Erotic Goblin
    >> Zionist Jew 05/21/08(Wed)06:04 No.1784884
    Big Bad Evil Goy
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:05 No.1784885
    Bargain Bin Erotic Garb
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:05 No.1784886
    Big Bottomed Elvish Girls
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:11 No.1784911
    Bread Baked Excluding Grain
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:13 No.1784926
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    like this?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:17 No.1784948
    Have it rule over its underlings using fear.
    Have it fight in locations that are filled to the fucking brim with a thousand different obstacles, traps and pitfalls - all of which it knows about.
    So it can go prancing about, leading PCs to their doom and shooting their heads open.
    >> Dagda !hTbo821v7U 05/21/08(Wed)06:19 No.1784960
    OP: Sneak attacks don't always mean you have to be hidden or flanking. Sometimes it's just a matter of ensuring that your enemies don't know what you can do. A series of shadowy acts of violence terrorize the royal court- a royal feast is interrupted by blood dripping from a body on the chandelier, nobles perish in their beds while soldiers stand guard at the only entrance, etc. Then reveal that rather than this being the work of an assassin's guild, a lone weak-but-politically powerful NPC is doing it all simply by being scarily good at things like infiltration, deception and placing unexpected sharp objects in your vital organs.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:19 No.1784964
         File :1211365192.jpg-(141 KB, 700x495, 1192389159831.jpg)
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    This thread is now about girls with large asses.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:22 No.1784973

    >A series of shadowy acts of violence terrorize the royal court- a royal feast is interrupted by blood dripping from a body on the chandelier, nobles perish in their beds while soldiers stand guard at the only entrance, etc.

    That sounds like V for Vendetta. A character that's V crossed with the Joker would be a great BBEG, sneaky, devious, charismatic and brutal.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:23 No.1784983
    And batshit insane in several different ways.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:24 No.1784991
    V is already a pretty big anarch. So what would the reasoning behind the act have to be to make it more joker-like without becoming exactly like Joker?

    When you think about it, not much different. One guy is a destructive maniac for the sake of anarchy, one guy is a destructive maniac for the sake of being a destructive maniac.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:25 No.1784992
         File :1211365500.jpg-(109 KB, 1024x768, url.jpg)
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     _, ,_ ∩
    ( ゚∀゚)彡 えーりん!えーりん!
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:25 No.1784995

    Needs moar ass.


    Now we're talking. Is that really an elf though?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:25 No.1784998
    What about Eirin?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:26 No.1785001
     _, ,_ ∩
    ( ゚∀゚)彡 えーりん!えーりん!
    >> That Damn Mouse 05/21/08(Wed)06:27 No.1785010

    Joker still wins over V in my heart, simply for crippling and raping Commissioner Gordan's daughter and then showing him the pictures of what he did whilst beating the ever living shit out of him.

    Also, he blew up Robin.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:28 No.1785015
    You give him a fuckton of scrolls.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:28 No.1785018

    V and the Joker take out their revenge on the society that birthed them through a systematic campaign of terror. V is slightly more humane than the Joker, but that's just because his opponent is a brutal fascist regime rather than a modern liberal democracy. If you want your rogue BBEG to be more sympathetic, have him fight against a tyrant. If you want him to seem a psychopath, have him fight against some goody-two-shoes state.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:29 No.1785028
    What if it's a fascist goody-two-shoes dictatorship?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:30 No.1785030
    So for a combination, have it dubious as to whether the state is good or bad?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:30 No.1785031

    schroedinger's dictatorship
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:30 No.1785032
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:30 No.1785034
    Joker is a shitty villain that only works in old comic books.

    Someone would have shot him dead by now.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:31 No.1785041
    While many people might say "WHAT, NO IMPOSSIBLE" I can actually see in. A city that is more than happy to be controlled by a single, powerful charismatic figure that leads them on to eternal prosperity. Anyone who speaks against him is immediately shunned, mainly because if it wasn't for him, their land would be in a far worse state.
    >> That Damn Mouse 05/21/08(Wed)06:33 No.1785051

    Dom't lie, you would have done it to Batgirl too.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:33 No.1785053
    Not quite. A bit more grimdarkness. Like say, the hidden parts of the government. There's a shiny goody-good front that the people root for, but behind it there's quite a lot of nasty stuff going on in the name of upholding order.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:33 No.1785054

    Exactly. Have a moral grey area where the rogue BBEG operates in a state the PC's aren't all that familiar with, it might seem a good and just society but in the process of their hunt for the rogue they'll uncover facts that will make them reconsider and maybe even emphatize with the BBEG.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:35 No.1785065
    To build on this, I'd just like to express my desire to see a remorseless anti-hero. You always see evil or good, or the typical "I'll kill if I have to but I won't like it" anti-hero. I'd love to see a BBEG who's fighting the power as hard and direct as he can, regardless of what it costs. When the heroes get to the "but how could you kill all those innocent people?" moment, it should go something like:

    "This is war. People die in war."
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:35 No.1785067
    That's just a normal fascist state then.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:37 No.1785080
    I know he crippled Barbara, but not the rest.
    >> That Damn Mouse 05/21/08(Wed)06:39 No.1785089

    Yep. After he shot Batgirl through the gut and made her a parapalegic, he 'violated' her (that's about all the detail they'd give out) whilst taking photos. Later on he kidnapped the Commissioner in an attempt to prove that anyone can be sent insane if they have a bad enough day.

    Didn't work though. But yeah, he blew up Robin ages ago - because the fans wanted him too. They had a phone-in poll to save/kill Robin. Killers won out.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:40 No.1785092

    So, a cross between the Joker, V and Rorscharch, then? This guy gets better by the minute.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:42 No.1785100
    Well...not quite as sadistically brutal. Only as brutal as he has to be, but shows none of the usual anti-hero-ish remorse or aversion to said brutality.

    A guy who sees no problem with ripping a receptionist's fingernails out one by one to get her to tell him where they're taking the fucking crates.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:44 No.1785107
    Yep. Kind of like:
    Bystander: "Why the fuck did you just burn that keep down?!"
    BBEG: "Oh, one of the king's agents was inside it."
    Bystander: "What about everyone else?!"
    BBEG: "What about 'em?"
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:45 No.1785111
    Actually, for a good parallel go watch Clooney's performance in The Peacemaker. Like that, but slightly less Good-aligned.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:46 No.1785116
    Why not so sadistically brutal?
    He could get thrills out of getting closer and closer to bringing down his opponent - despite what he has to do to get closer.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:46 No.1785118
    Yeah, err... it's called Exalted.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:47 No.1785122
    More likely to fight through several dozen relatively innocent bystanders to kill the fucker personally, but yeah.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:49 No.1785128
    Perhaps burning down the keep to smoke him out, then killing him and anyone who is in his way in the mean time?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:49 No.1785134
    Damn...wish I'd thought of that now.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:52 No.1785145

    Elements from V:

    * Dedicated solely to revenge on the government that destroyed him

    * Makes sure to let said government know and fear what he does while he does it by leaving clues

    * Ruthless and inhuman with no fear of death.

    From Rorscharch:

    * Does not consider anyone to be innocent bystanders

    * Extremely methodical, paranoid and reclusive

    From the Joker:

    * Enjoys instilling terror in his targets and the general populace

    * Challenges investigators to keep up with him and leaves them specific messages

    * Has a twisted sense of humor
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:54 No.1785157
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:56 No.1785166
    On second thoughts, the three Joker traits are really counterproductive to getting shit done. Drop them.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:56 No.1785168
    *steals character*
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:57 No.1785172

    Now we just need stats for this mofo and maybe a bit of writefaggotry (dare I hope for drawfaggotry as well?) and we're done.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)06:59 No.1785176
    No - don't drop all three.
    Instead, get rid of the"Extremely methodical, paranoid and reclusive" bit.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:00 No.1785180
    Well enjoy your broken superhero villain.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:01 No.1785185

    Well, there's no need for him to be extremely effective since the PC's should have a chance of catching him, too.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:05 No.1785194
    I was referring to psychologically. I don't have a problem with him being trackable, logically he might not do the best job covering his tracks. It's just that I was going for less of the usual "slightly mentally unstable" thing and more for a guy who just wants to get the damn job done, whatever it takes.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:06 No.1785199
    In that case, make him only enjoy causing terror in his targets.

    Perhaps you could keep all of the Rorscharch and remove the "leaves behind clues for investigators" aspect. It's kind of stupid if you're paranoid and reclusive AND leave behind clues for people to follow your trails.

    I'm thinking of a destructive vigilante of sorts, doing absolutely anything and everything to get to his targets. Maybe having a little bit of fun in the meantime, cracking a few jokes and bearing a morbid, disturbing sense of humour.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:08 No.1785208
    Well, that usually requires a rather unhinged state.
    However, I understand what you mean - we could remove the deranged Joker aspect. All it does is as flavour to the concept, we already have the essentials with the other two.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:10 No.1785214
    Like a cross between the guy from Shoot 'Em Up and aforementioned Clooney character? Also, little bit of Painkiller for good measure.

    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:11 No.1785216

    Well he shouldn't be retarded about it, but I still think the kind of mentality needed for this character would be conductive to a twisted, sick sense of humor.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:12 No.1785220
    I was thinking more dry and tactless.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:15 No.1785224

    Both would work. Remember, he wants his enemies to fear and know that something is after them. He likes to see people shitting bricks over his work.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:16 No.1785229
    So he does the deed and then makes a few obligatory lame BBEG-style jokes about it to the heroes?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:17 No.1785235

    Try to make them original. The PC's will likely be prepared for lame BBEG-style jokes.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:19 No.1785245
    The kind of guy I am imagining would suddenly cause an entire keep full of celebrations to burn into flame and watch the carnage he caused, briefly sparing a moment to make a quick remark about barbeque. Or maybe commenting on how nice a day it is for a swim while turning a galley into match-sticks as it carries his target from one destination to another.

    Just quick, small jokes rather than elaborate shit that his life revolves about.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:19 No.1785247
    They have to be the usual "oh that's funny but I feel bad for laughing" kind, but with less emphasis on "I'm an evil bastard"?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:19 No.1785249
    But yeah.
    Originality's always good.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:21 No.1785252
    Yeah. Stuff that makes the audience go "dude, that's low."
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:22 No.1785262

    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:23 No.1785265
    A little too batshit, but getting there.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)07:58 No.1785366
    Shit, man. How did this concept die?
    >> Not Spandex !9Xu5DjUw9E 05/21/08(Wed)07:59 No.1785368

    The same way every other concept dies, Pinky.

    Balls. Lots and lots of balls.
    >> Not Spandex !9Xu5DjUw9E 05/21/08(Wed)08:07 No.1785402
    But seriously, I like this concept. It appears to be well-thought and somewhat ridiculous. I'd offer up a stat block for this J For Joketta-schach character, but I'm afraid of sullying this with something lame. Like investing in high INT for a character that probably needs rogue levels for the ridiculously high level of skill ranks he'd need to be able to pull off the level of dickery he'll undoubtedly put people through.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:08 No.1785406

    Please, do stat this guy. We need to go further with the concept and stats is what's next. Remember, rogue levels as a foundation.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:10 No.1785410
    Think of him as like MacGuyver. He's a jack-of-all-trades who improvises an awful lot. Probably pretty high Wisdom scores and lots of insight, so he can make crude explosive devices or other weaponry out of household items.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:12 No.1785414
    Also, don't confuse the fact that he doesn't really care for idle banter with an inability to fast-talk his way out of/into/through a situation if the need arises.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:12 No.1785415

    A Factotum/Rogue BBEG?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:12 No.1785417
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ dunno lol

    Not familiar enough with D&D system.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:13 No.1785418
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:13 No.1785419
    Get the fuck back to /b/
    >> Not Spandex !9Xu5DjUw9E 05/21/08(Wed)08:14 No.1785423

    Wisdom? For explosives in a presumably 3rd edition D&D setting? I would think that would be alchemy, which is an Int thing.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:14 No.1785424

    If you're familiar with some other system, stat him in there. Exalted, maybe?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:14 No.1785426
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:16 No.1785430
    Oops, back to /b/ with you.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:16 No.1785432
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:19 No.1785440
    Stop that.

    Shut up.

    Like I said, unfamiliar. I don't really play any PnP RPGs, I just lurk on /tg/.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:20 No.1785443
    If it's going to be a Macguyver type, I suggest maybe the Combat Trapsmith.
    Perhaps even the "Avenging Executioner" PrC if we're going with a guy who relies on fear.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:21 No.1785445
    Same newfag from /b/
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:22 No.1785451

    You shouldn't have stopped lurking then. Look at what you've brought to the thread.

    Anyway, anyone who actually knows D&D interested? Touhoufag? Anyone?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:22 No.1785452
    Stop being a troll.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:23 No.1785456
    Proves >>1785445 correct
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:24 No.1785458
    You could count me.
    I consider myself okay at character crafting for someone who doesn't haunt the Theoretical Optimization forums all day long.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:26 No.1785467

    I'm looking forward to see your take on the character! And looking forward to seeing >>1785445
    and >>1785452
    deleting their derailing posts and getting the fuck out of this thread.
    >> Anonymous <winkwink> 05/21/08(Wed)08:26 No.1785470
    I can't help with ruleses and things, but I can give narrative suggestions.

    Have him lurking in the shadows all the time, an army of underlings doesn't seem right for someone like that. In fact, Chaotic Evil sounds a bit too much, go Chaotic Neutral. They're uncaring, but they don't want to miamkillburn everything, they just want money. I'd say a -- you did ask in a hypothetical fashion, right? Not having an idea already?

    I'd say have him be a master thief, the Lupin to your character's Holmes. Actually, Moriarty might be a better analogy, but he wasn't so much a thief as a mastermind. Have the bad guy be like Lupin, only less gentleman, more thief. Maybe he wont harm innocents, maybe he will. Have him plan to steal something, and somehow get the best of the heroes. Of course, that implies that your heroes can follow clues. If not, then terrorist would also be a good idea, though that puts him back into Chaotic Evil.

    That's just my two cents.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:26 No.1785472
    GTFO newfag.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:28 No.1785480
    >>1785467 Oh god how i get her ei no good with computer
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:28 No.1785481
    I apologise for derailing the thread. Not that it matters, but I'm not the one who posted that huge row of emotes.

    Also hoping for more character build. Glad to know this whole thing won't just dissolve into nowhere.
    >> J For Joketta-scharch Not Spandex !9Xu5DjUw9E 05/21/08(Wed)08:28 No.1785485
    Okay, because I'm not entirely familiar with the idea of statting characters or the formatting thereof, I'm just gonna throw shit out there. If you have the whatfor to fix it up and put it in the right shape, you have my eternal gratitude. And/or a more organized head. You fucker.

    I'm thinking four levels in rogue, and one in fighter. I like the idea of epic level characters as much as the next guy, but dicking with totalitarian states is probably fuck-all easy for a motivated person. Plus, the one level in fighter allows him to have Unarmed Strike with the Bonus Feat from first fighter level. The Joker was apparently no slouch in unarmed combat, while V was tough as nails.

    Also, I may be a faggot because of this, but let's go with 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15 as our stat numbers, just to keep it simple.

    Vital skills would have to be Intimidate, Gather Information, Move Silently, Open Lock, Alchemy, aaaand... I like Knowledge, just because I like the idea of a villain that knows his shit.

    In before flood of OBJECTIONs.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:31 No.1785497
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:31 No.1785500
    Dunno about Move Silently. Might be useful depending on setting, but this guy strikes me as rather the kind of use words to get him as far as possible and then fight the rest of the way.
    >> Not Spandex !9Xu5DjUw9E 05/21/08(Wed)08:32 No.1785501

    Chill. He'll stop apologizing if you stop going apeshit. Check the little boxes and hit delete.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:33 No.1785505

    Dude needs Use Magic Device. I can see him using all kinds of magic wands, traps and tools.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:34 No.1785514
    Shut the fuck up and get the fuck out attention whore.
    >> Not Spandex !9Xu5DjUw9E 05/21/08(Wed)08:34 No.1785516

    Right, I added that based on the hypothetical body-on-the-chandelier idea in >>1784960

    Also, >>1785505, I like your idea and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:35 No.1785523
    No, anonymous, you ARE the attention whore.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:36 No.1785525
    My advice is:
    - Rogue. This is plain obvious.
    - Factotum (Dungeonscape). Although I don't have the book, I have heard that it is incredibly for a jack of all trades - you could almost definitely go into anything from there on.
    - Combat Trapsmith (Complete Scoundrel): This allows you to pop up traps whenever the fuck you want without having to spend weeks creating beartraps. Could be handy for the character.
    - Avenging Executioner (Complete Scoundrel). It's an odd twist on the rogue. Your sneak attacks cause fear effects in the onlookers and you can sneak attack anyone who is subject to a fear effect such as shaken, frightened, panicked, etc.

    Pick your poison to make a decent character.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:36 No.1785528
    Get the fuck out newfags
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:37 No.1785534

    Fuck yeah, Avenging Executioner! That's exactly the kind of character that we're going for.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:38 No.1785535
    If you take Factotum, you really don't need to give him any levels in Rogue. Bonus: Since you're the DM, you can't horribly destroy your campaign with the class.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:42 No.1785558
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    The Avenging Executioner is actually reliant on sudden strike, not sneak attack, but sneak attack damage stacks with sudden strike damage anyway.


    The factotum only gets broken if you take Able Learner and then Font of Inspiration as every feat, aiming for Factotum 8/Chameleon 10/Human Paragon 2. It's nowhere as bad and actually balanced if you aim for something simple like Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/Factotum +5 without taking any Fonts of Inspiration.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:42 No.1785561
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    Here's the Avenging Executioner for all those who want to see it.
    I got it wrong - it's Sudden Strike, not sneak attack - sudden strike is identical to sneak attack and they stack, except that sudden strike only works when enemy is flat footed.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:44 No.1785565

    This guy's class abilities would make him have to go up to the target and kill it in front of as many witnesses as possible to cause terror and dread. That would make for an interesting modus operandi.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:44 No.1785569
    Also - the Urban Ranger could come in useful.
    >> Not Spandex !9Xu5DjUw9E 05/21/08(Wed)08:44 No.1785571

    Er. I have a Player's Handbook on hand and a sketchy understanding of what's in Complete Scoundrel and Dungeonscape. My bookcollectan skills leave much to be desired at this point. However! If someone else feels up to snagging this potentially kick ass character concept and add the appropriate fun stuff to it, it's all yours.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:45 No.1785574
    But not really what we're going for with the "Joketta" guy.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:45 No.1785575
    >> Not Spandex !9Xu5DjUw9E 05/21/08(Wed)08:46 No.1785583
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    Yes, mother.

    Toodle-pip, guys.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:47 No.1785585
    What do you guys think of the Avenging Executioner?
    Does it have the right flavour, or is something a bit sour?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:47 No.1785590

    Really? I thought that it would be cool for this masked dude to come crashing into a high society ball or whatever, kill some guy with a blade to the heart, spout some deadpan one-liner and then leave as a bunch of wands of Maximized Fireball go off in all directions while the guests are frozen in shock and terror.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:50 No.1785597
    I see him bursting through a window and running him through with cold steel - before instantly cutting a bloody path towards his target as everyone runs away in terror, leaving behind trails of urine in their own fear.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:50 No.1785600
    Running a man through with cold steel, I mean.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:50 No.1785602
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    I should point out that with the capstone ability, Bloody Murder, you can technically butcher a rat pulled out from your pocket to make everyone within 30 feet of you frightened (or shaken if they make the save) for 1 round.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:51 No.1785607
    Technically, you can.
    But that's just silly.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:52 No.1785610

    You could even rationalize that by saying that the dude's become so well known and feared that the sight of him slaughtering an animal is enough to send everyone into panic.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:52 No.1785613
    I meant he wouldn't be the kind of guy who's so focused on making people scared. He'd want the "bad guys" to be afraid of him, yeah, but everything is second to getting the job done.

    Then again, it's not like I'm in charge here or anything. I don't have a copyright on the character.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:52 No.1785614
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:53 No.1785620

    If he sees the entire realm as his enemies, he'd want everyone to shit their pants in terror at the very mention of his name. Also, it's quite efficient to not have to fight people on the way to your target since everyone runs the hell away as soon as they see you.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:54 No.1785622
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:54 No.1785625
    He's just a scary motherfucker, that's the thing. The shit's got a reputation for tearing apart anyone and everyone on his way to his target, and that's the reason why everyone pisses their pants.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:55 No.1785629
    Maybe. I was of the opinion that he was against the establishment, not just everyone indiscriminately.

    There's a character who uses threatening adorable kittens as a superpower.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:56 No.1785634
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    >There's a character who uses threatening adorable kittens as a superpower.

    And then there's the Codpiece.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:58 No.1785638
    I thought the same thing.
    He sees anyone who gets in his way as an enemy. That's what I thought.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)08:59 No.1785645
    He sees anyone who gets in his way as expendable. If you DELIBERATELY get in his way, you're either an enemy or a fuckass.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:08 No.1785669
    So, are we agreed on Avenging Executioner?
    If so, we need a base class and maybe an extra PrC. What level are we aiming for?
    >> That Damn Mouse 05/21/08(Wed)09:11 No.1785675
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    You're all are now imaging the villain to look like this.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:12 No.1785679
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:13 No.1785681
    Sorry, what is that?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:14 No.1785682
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:14 No.1785686
    Jeremy IRONS.

    AKA that guy who dropped off a building.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:15 No.1785690

    Rogue for base class. And I say lvl 10-15. Don't want the guy to be too high-end.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:22 No.1785713
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    Fighter (with Sneak Attack, Thug, and Zhentarim Soldier ACFs and sub levels) 9 would've been a great entry into Avenging Executioner, because that would let him Intimidate as a SWIFT action to make him even more brick-shitting each and every round... but unfortunately, that would require him to be from a very Lawful organization in Faerun. But try to look into the Dreadful Wrath regional feat from the Player's Guide to Faerun, since that makes a character very fear-inducing with just one feat.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:23 No.1785714
    Rogue 7-10 / Avenging Executioner 5?

    Or some other combo?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:25 No.1785719
    >Fighter (with Sneak Attack, Thug, and Zhentarim Soldier ACFs and sub levels)
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:39 No.1785755
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    >Some fighters prefer stealth and cunning over martial skill. This variant can also be combined with the thug variant.
    >Gain: Sneak attack (as rogue).
    >Lose: Bonus feats.

    >Class Skills: Add the following skills to the fighter's class skill list: Bluff, Gather Information, Knowledge (local), and Sleight of Hand. The thug gains skill points per level equal to 4 + Int modifier (and has this number x4 at 1st level).
    >Class Features: The thug has all the standard fighter class features, except as noted below.
    >Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Thugs are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor.
    >Bonus Feats: A thug doesn't gain the normal fighter bonus feat at 1st level. Also, add Urban Tracking to the list of fighter bonus feats available to the thug.

    The Zhentarim Soldier substitution levels are from here (www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a). They give you some really nice Intimidate abilities, such as Intimidating as a swift action, and what makes them even better is that they're absolutely free to take.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:40 No.1785759
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    A Human Rogue 1/Fighter 9 (with the above ACFs and sub levels)/Avenging Executioner 5 with the Dreadful Wrath feat from the Player's Guide to Faerun for more brick-shitting-ness, the Imperious Command feat from Drow of the Underdark (doesn't require you to be a drow) for even more brick-shitting-ness when Intimidating, and the Able Learner feat from Races of Destiny to make purchasing skill ranks easier could be the best non-magical Intimidater and fear-inducer ever. The Zhentarim Soldier sub levels just need to be refluffed with the rationale that he's just one scary motherfucker. He's going to suck against creatures immune to fear and mind-affecting effects though, but that's not going to matter unless the players are somehow specifically immune to those things. Paladins are immune to fear and have an aura of courage though...
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:42 No.1785765
    ... Holy shit.
    I think I will use this guy in one of my campaigns now.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:43 No.1785769

    OK now I'm afraid. This dude just got optimized.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:44 No.1785771
    We seem to have drifted from a no-nonsense morally ambiguous BBEG to a guy who's basically just a fear machine?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:46 No.1785773
    This is just statwise, you know.
    We still have the background that the guy is a no-nonsense morally ambiguous BBEG willing to kill anyone and everyone in its way.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:49 No.1785781
    But I have to admit, now that it's optimized...
    Well, it's almost as if it's had its soul sucked out. I've lost the will to work on this now.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:52 No.1785785
    How is making him a plain boring Rogue 15 supposed to make him any better again?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:53 No.1785788
    It isn't.
    But it's no longer a character, it's a block of statistics made for ultimate efficiency in regards to what it is.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:55 No.1785791
    We were discussing how to make him a fear machine when the Avenging Executioner got brought up, because we thought it was an awesome concept. Then we actually did get to make him a fear machine even rules-wise. Your problem?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)09:57 No.1785795
    I suppose you're right.
    It just feels odd.
    You know what? Disregard what I've said, I suck cocks.
    Continue discussion.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)10:03 No.1785819
    Right... We've got background.
    We've got stats.
    So, what does this fucker look like? What are his favoured weapons?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)10:03 No.1785822
    He was not a particularly tall man, nor was he particularly muscular. At first glance, one’s mind might cast an impression of an ordinary man having a rather bad day. His rough, unshaven face formed an expression of grating impatience as dark, sullen eyes cast about the room for something or someone. Thick black hair grown into an uneven mess almost obscured his ears, stopping short halfway down the back of his neck as if it had been simply sliced off. The jacket made telling the build of him difficult at best. It sat loose across his shoulders and hung down nearly to the knee, worn black leather that was losing its smooth finish from years of hardship. If there was a single thing on him to identify, it was hidden. He was clearly a man who did not wish to be named.

    “Excuse me, sir,” I heard the doorman saying to the stranger. I’d actually stopped drinking when he entered. The thought took me a bit by surprise; I’m not one to interest myself in the affairs of others, but something about this strange man in the dark clothing just made me worry.

    The stranger gave the doorman a look, as if he were thinking of something to say to the seven foot tall brute of a man in his expensive suit. Something offensive, by the look on the stranger’s face.

    “Sir, I’m sorry, I can’t let you just walk in like this,” continued the doorman. He was just about to say something else, when the stranger in the leather jacket buried his left fist into the man’s face.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)10:09 No.1785844
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    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)10:16 No.1785867
    To say I was surprised would be wrong. I wasn’t, if for no other reason than the sheer speed with which the stranger had landed such a crushing blow was utterly staggering. One second he had stood there, staring up at a man a good head higher than himself with the look of a haggard bar crawler to him, and the next the doorman was rocking back against the doorframe with a solid thump.

    The stranger walked into the club proper seemingly unaffected by this brief altercation, aside from the way he was shaking his hand out and wincing. His eyes scanned the room again from side to side. The crowd didn’t seem to have noticed, they were too involved in their dancing and drinking.

    There was a click from somewhere over my left shoulder barely audible past the pounding music. I turned to see two more guards dashing out of a previously locked door in the corner of the room behind the bar. The stranger must have seen them too, for I distinctly heard loud curses coming from his direction. Their suits were not quite as well pressed as the doorman’s had been, nor were they as physically copious in form. No doubt they were armed.

    If the thought of armed guards gave the stranger any second thoughts about whatever it was he was planning to do, and I still have yet to discover just what he accomplished that night in the club, he gave no sign of it. He took one look at the two men, both of whom looked at least a good ten years younger than himself, winced again, and started walking quickly towards the bar. Towards the near end of the bar, to be precise, mere feet from myself.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)10:17 No.1785868
    For the record, I suck at writing anything that isn't hot lesbian sex.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)10:20 No.1785875
    Carry on.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)10:28 No.1785896
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    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)10:34 No.1785927
    “Stop right there!”

    “Don’t move!”

    First class cliché from the two young toughs in the suits. It was almost enough to make me laugh, if I hadn’t been paralysed already. The stranger was standing right at the end of the bar, leaning against a stool with his arm up on the counter. His back was to them, and I could see the cogs working as a look of determined resentment came over his face.

    The guards, if they could be called guards, stood there like the two gormless idiots they really were, unsure of what to do. At this point, the troublemaker was supposed to leave or fight back and be clubbed unconscious. Unfortunately, troublemakers in the past had never floored Reginald, the doorman, in a single hit. They also tended not to look quite like this gentleman who may or may not have just recently been pulled halfway round the city on the end of a rope and then dunked in a vat of beer for the afternoon. They tended to be loud, angry and stupid.

    Looking at his face, it was clear this stranger was none of those.

    “Look, boys,” he said at last. His voice was gruff and dark just like the rest of him. They couldn’t see the shining thing his fingers handily plucked from a pocket inside of his jacket as he turned towards the two young thugs, but I could. “I’ve had a bad day. I just want to see Mulligan.”

    “Mr Mulligan don’t talk to nobody,” answered one of the toughs. The other one glared at him. The two of them together looked like a pair of schoolboys standing before an angry headmaster.

    The stranger only nodded. The shiny thing, I could see now, was a lighter. He flicked it open as he brought it up to his face with a wry smile.

    “No problem. I’m not here to listen.”
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)10:37 No.1785942
    Keep it up.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)10:39 No.1785950
    Much easier said than done.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)10:40 No.1785954
    I know the feeling. Trust me.
    But, I'd like to see this writefaggotry finish proper.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)10:42 No.1785964
    I dunno how "finish" it'll get. It was just supposed to be a quick third-person look at our BBEG beating some people up.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)10:46 No.1785986
    Be sure to include the ZOMG BRICK-SHITTING that we've built him up to be.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)11:01 No.1786054
    I suck at fight scenes. I'd suggest someone else take over.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)11:05 No.1786068
    Okay, everything beyond there is utter shit. The end. Have fun with that.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)11:14 No.1786091

    The stranger snaps a quick left jab at one of the thugs, stabbing his fingers into the clueless man's side. With a quick twist of his fingers, the stranger sends his victim falling to the floor holding his stomach.

    the other guard brings his club up in response and steps in for a swing.

    without a split second of hesitation, the stranger immediately flicks the lighter into the other enforcer's face.

    the lighter caught the thug's attention for only a second. But that second was all the stranger needed. He steps into thug's reach, and savagely grabs onto his testicles whilst the guard was distracted by the lighter.

    then with a wrench accompanied by a lift, the stranger lifts his foe into the air by his groin and slams his head into the pavement. urine now streams down the side of his pant leg as he convulses helplessly from the shock.

    the stranger then catches the lighter before it falls past his waist, and lifts it to his face to light up a smoke.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)14:54 No.1787322
    So what's with the lighter? What setting is this going to work in?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)14:57 No.1787340
    I don't know. the guy before me put a lighter in his hands so I thought I'd run with it.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)15:01 No.1787366
    Fair enough. It definitely worked otherwise, very nice.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)15:35 No.1787571
    Cool, so what the hell are we calling this one?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)15:39 No.1787593
    Oh yeah.
    We need a name.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)15:40 No.1787601
    His name is Mike?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)15:40 No.1787605
    Sounds more like a cowboyish anti-hero to me. Maybe that's because I can't get the image of a clown-faced V in an expensive suit out of my head.
    But do carry one. I like where this is going.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)15:41 No.1787613
    Stu McGary.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)15:42 No.1787620
    I might have been reading The Dark Tower too much lately.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)15:45 No.1787637

    Lord, forgive me for this, but my mortal frame acts on its own accord...

    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)15:46 No.1787644
    Huh. Well why the hell not.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)15:50 No.1787677
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    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:04 No.1787763
    let's give him a blatantly made up name, like Max Cougar or Dirk Starr or something.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:07 No.1787782
    this reminds me of newfags

    dark tower won't get it
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:09 No.1787804
    Just refer to him as Johnny.

    That should do the trick.
    >> anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:10 No.1787813
    Go get desu tentacle raped namefag.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:11 No.1787814
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    Sweep the Leg
    >> Not Spandex !9Xu5DjUw9E 05/21/08(Wed)16:13 No.1787833

    Ooo, I like this idea. Referring to a man with a single, ordinary name always seems to give him a sense of... iconic importance, somehow. Like Jack, from the Fight Club.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:23 No.1787917

    Drawfaggot here. This thread is tl;dr to me at this point, but if one of you fatguys are willing to whip up a physical character description and a scene to go with it, I'll put down some work.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:36 No.1788037
    lemme try. we'll do it in several different settings for flexibility of use

    Fantasy Setting
    give him your typical Rogue-like outfits. you know, wrapped head to toe with dark color fabrics, soft shoes for noise dampening.

    top it off by giving him a gold mask that covers all of his features. (or you can make it a tengu mask if we're going Weeaboo)

    have him stand over several bodies in a small office. Have two of the bodies hanging from the beams of the ceiling with their own sashes or some other makeshit garrot. one of them is going to be someone who looks like he used to be important.

    Modern setting
    same general concept, but give him a nice suit. very trim cut. give him white gloves to better have the blood on his hands show up. Instead of the normal mask, you can either give him a phantom of the opera mask, or give him clown make up. (nod to the joker)

    This time, he's dropped a lighter on the floor, inflaming his insignia he's drawn on the floor with gasoline. (a la the Crow) Whatever insignia that maybe, it circles the body of the man he just killed.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:42 No.1788090
    1787917 here


    You two are exactly opposite directions, tavarishey. Since '52 is Stylish Motherfucker and '37 is making shit up, I think I'll go with '52. Sorry '37, you are the demons.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:44 No.1788111
    Yes. This is the best one.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:44 No.1788116

    Whoops. I need to proofread. Talk about mixing shit up.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:45 No.1788126
    Fuck yes. Thank you very much for ignoring what I said. In fact, deleting that post I did.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:47 No.1788136
    I tried to do a bit of writing earlier, see above. Personally, I'm for the "rough and average" crowd. That was my concept of him in the first place.

    People keep trying to pull this guy back towards super-villain cliches. That's not really what I was aiming for. I'd much rather see a non-standard morally ambiguous and ruthless BBEG. The whole motivation behind him was originally just "a guy who's got something to do and does whatever it takes to achieve it, no matter the cost." An anti-hero without the usual remorseful whining and so on. A more truly morally ambiguous anti-hero, so to speak.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:49 No.1788145

    So you're saying he SHOULD be a normal Jack whose circumstances (or whatever) force him to abandon all common sense and begin hunting the people of his nightmares ruthlessly ?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:49 No.1788148
    37 here. to be fair, 52 CAN work with 37 if you mix it a little bit.

    maybe 52 normally is a total professional, but during certain times, he just doesn't get to re-coup. Maybe something in his personal life has caught up iwth his lifestyle and he hasn't been able to get a good shave, a good night's sleep, and get into some clean clothes.

    but that would be an exception to how I see the original 37 concept.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:51 No.1788169
    Yeah, in a way. Make it so that his goals are obfuscated, so that you honestly can't really tell if he's fighting the good fight or not.

    Originally, it was "rogue vs the establishment" wherein some originally nice guy had been slighted harshly by a corrupt government or something and was out to fix something he saw as being wrong, and not afraid to get very dirty along the way.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:52 No.1788177
    To be fair, there are already quite a few villains who fit into the concept you described.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:52 No.1788179
    '17 here


    I'm asking all these questions 'cos this isn't my character. I don't know what the fucker looks like, what he does, where he's been, why he hasn't shaved in two weeks or whose blood it is on his hands.

    So keep it coming.
    >> '17 05/21/08(Wed)16:55 No.1788208

    So a V-type person, then ? Only instead of someone stylized (not 'stylish', but 'stylized'), we have someone who is still for all intents and purposes human, except the parts he for whatever reason has had to do without ?
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:55 No.1788210
    Rough unshaven face, leather jacket that looks like it's been through a small war, generic dark clothes, average height and build, unkempt dark hair and very dark eyes.

    To make it a little more clear, since I think people may be misinterpreting my intentions here, let's look at a hypothetical situation. Imagine you've set up a situation for the PCs, on a crusade against the corrupt establishment, wherein there's someone in the way they have to work around. It's the traditional "do our best to convince so-an-so to turn against their evil masters and then watch as said masters kill him/her" scene.

    Jack would just shoot the NPC and keep going.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:56 No.1788217
    One thing is an absolute must with this character.
    He must not, not, not dwell on the past.
    Sure. Something bad was done to him and he's getting revenge. Thing is though, he doesn't care about what the crime commited was, he only cares about getting back at the system.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:58 No.1788240
    I will once again point you to the movie "The Peacemaker." This will give you a very good idea of the kind of character I imagined "Jack" as being, except a little further off the path of Good than even Clooney gets since Jack isn't fighting FOR the establishment with their blessing. Try combining this, Dalton's Bond in License To Kill and Roland Deschain, and you might get something close. More of a machine than a man, or a true monster. He does what he does because it needs doing and feels no remorse, but he doesn't enjoy it.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:59 No.1788252
    Underage b&
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)16:59 No.1788255
    I'll agree with this, yes. He's not the kind of guy to dwell.

    Might be easier if I just say "he's the most pure Chaotic Neutral you'll ever see in your life."
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:01 No.1788265
    wtf troll
    >> '17 05/21/08(Wed)17:02 No.1788280

    Are we going with the lighter-thing ? Because I can easily work with that. Gimmicks = win.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:04 No.1788294
    got no argument from me there. well, it's an idea.

    okay, let's fill out some more details for one version of this guy.

    why hasn't he shaved in two weeks? he's been obsessively looking for someone. So much so, that he's neglected his normal personal routines. Let's say it's somebody who has sleighted him. Maybe they did so by simply out doing him in the theatrics. (again, a nod to the joker, who apparently can't stand other people being even more of a crazy murderer than him)

    He's managed to track his rival to a dirty motel/inn/tavern across the street from him and he's been staking the place out for weeks. He rented a space across the street but has not bothered to bring any of his personal items with him except maybe his tools of executions.

    whose blood is on his hands? let's make it a mobster. And, to play on the cliches a bit more, make this one a pampered mobster whose strength lies in his minions and followers. (All of which, our anti-hero here has murdered in cold blood)
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:04 No.1788298
    Make it a subtle gag if you like. Something akin to the Constantine Giant Lighter thing from the movie. I dunno. I just threw that in as part of his "improvised weapons" thing, going on the previously established idea that the guy can botch shit together like MacGuyver on steroids.
    >> '17 05/21/08(Wed)17:05 No.1788305

    Nicely done, good sir. Work commences.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:06 No.1788311
    why the hell not? gimmicks make the win
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:07 No.1788318
    Again with the cliches and the tropes. I think we're pretty much working on completely different wavelengths here. You seem to be more and more leaning into /co/ territory. Especially with the Joker fixation.

    Then again, not like this is my personal character or anything. Just isn't the way I would have liked to see him done.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:09 No.1788333
    true, my take on it is very /co/. that might have something to do with the fact that I've been reading some stuff on it earlier.

    you're more than welcome to do another take yourself too. I mean, this guy is not mine either, I just run with what I have in my head.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:10 No.1788347
    I've already exhausted my writefaggotry reserves for the evening, see >>1785822, >>1785867 and >>1785927 for that.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:14 No.1788377
    Let's put it this way then:
    Anyone and everyone is this guy's enemy. You actively try to stop him, he puts you on his list.
    You actively try to get back at him, he puts you on his list.
    Of course, he won't stab someone for giving him a warm beer. However, if someone attacks him - someone sober, at least - he'll kill them, trace who they are connected with and "talk" with these connections.
    From here, he'll go on to hunt down whoever set up a bounty or whatever with increased vigour.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:14 No.1788378
    well, if it's any consolation, I didn't mean to trample all over your original concept. kinda just ran with it.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:16 No.1788388
    Actually...yeah, this works nicely.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:17 No.1788393
    I should get used to it. I'm sure one of my character flaws is -10 to Resist Trample checks.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:17 No.1788396
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    Grim and dark, striking fear into everyone who sees him, looks like he's been through a small war... I can't stop thinking that this character looks like the Saint Of Killers.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:22 No.1788436
    The point of this is that we're looking to make an original version of the anti-hero. We've already taken the very basic traits from several anti-heroes and villians, however, we do not need to take the less important traits, such as how the Joker will kill anyone who is a better maniac that he is. Stick with what we've got for stuff that's taken from original characters. Let's not go with the cliches and instead, forge our own character rather than a mish-mash of V and Joker.
    >> stripedog !99w4lZplhU 05/21/08(Wed)17:25 No.1788461
    Oh wont you take me home tonight?
    Oh down beside your red firelight
    Oh and you give it all you got
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:26 No.1788468
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:29 No.1788497
    We need some drawfags in here.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:33 No.1788531
    Uh, there is one, he just needs more details.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:37 No.1788579
    See >>1788210

    What else do you need?
    >> '17 05/21/08(Wed)17:38 No.1788590

    At the moment, trying to find out how his FACE looks. I want to avoid the whole 'Strongman McConanFace Forgets to Shave', but it's kinda hard.

    I'm tempted to make him a little bit chubby, actually.
    >> Bushraptor 05/21/08(Wed)17:39 No.1788603
    I think a good rogue BBEG would be as follows: He would use stealth and chaos like in the above posts, but that wouldn't make for a satisfying final battle. So across the kingdom/kingdoms/planes, objects of art and magic items start to go missing. The PCs try and track down the culprit, and it turns out to be the BBEG. It turns out the things he has been stealing are the pieces of a major artifact, staff of 7 parts style (Wand? Rod? I can't remember.) Once he has all of the items, they form a powerful Macguffin that gives him the power to carry out His goals, and to be a challenge in combat. Some of the objects would seem to be mere baubles, some would be items wielded by recently murdered heroes (Or villains. It would be a good opportunity for manipulation.) and some would be held in the most secure of fortress' by those who truly knew their purpose. I'm thinking of the ultimate heist mission in Oblivion here.

    Anyway, the rogue gathers all these, boom, instant threat. Perhaps together they hold the power of a Demon lord or somesuch, but the BBEG is so fanatical, he's willing to damn himself for his cause.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:39 No.1788614
    Not chubby. Not cut or excessively masculine either. Make him...average. A bit on the malnourished side, perhaps. Sullen faced. Got a look about him like he's been awake for too damn long and doesn't care.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:41 No.1788635
    Slim, gaunt. Not chubby. Chubby implies a lifestyle where excess is allowed.
    Not his.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:41 No.1788637
    Just to make sure... This isn't the dark, brooding anti-hero who sits in the darkest corner of the tavern and barely says a word, yes? I see this one with a jester's mask and expensive (heavy) clothing rather than WAR's witch hunter.
    >> Concerned Raptor Vlaggav GARBush 05/21/08(Wed)17:42 No.1788640
    Fuck me in the asshole I can't wait till lunchtime
    >> '17 05/21/08(Wed)17:48 No.1788710

    No, this is the dark, motivated anti-hero who goes out and kills people 'cos he's convinced that that's the best way to deal with those fuckers. he doesn't contemplate his fate, he doesn't mourn the passing of anyone, loved or hated and he most certainly does not find redemption in the end.

    most likely, a lethal injection.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:49 No.1788720
    Very signed.

    I think we're finally seeing things the same way now.
    >> Valgaav 05/21/08(Wed)17:49 No.1788722
    Valgaav, you dipshit, it's from Slayers.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:49 No.1788726
    No, this is the guy who goes in, goes up to the bar, pays for enough alcohol to knock out an elephant, downs it, then walks back out again to do a day's work.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:49 No.1788727
    Rogues as a class have always struck me as making great lieutenants for the BBEG, but somewhat lacking in motivation for being the BBEG himself. Unlike spell casters, they don't tamper with things beyond the ken of mortal men. They don't scheme on behalf of dark and forgotten gods the way clerics might, and generally lack the brute power necessary to become blood-hungry warlords plotting the downfall of civilization, as a fighter or barbarian might.

    That's not to say that a rogue can't be a BBEG, just that they're harder to plausibly cast in the role. A good way of doing a rogue BBEG could be to go for the Moriarty style character, though this requires at least one of your players to take on the Holmes role, or saddle them with a know-it-all DMPC.
    A slightly different approach might be to take some levels of Aristocrat as well, and create a character somewhat akin to the Patrician.
    Yet another option could be to create a rogue, not so much like the Joker as suggested earlier in the thread, but more like Batman himself, only without the sense of honour and justice. Essentially do what GW did when they created Nighthaunter.
    >> '17 05/21/08(Wed)17:51 No.1788742

    All I do is writes the words and draws the picturessss ... I stopped thinking for myself many, many years ago.

    The last time I thought for myself, i won a race and got turned into a baby. Then I was born, and look where I ended up ... so thinking for myself ? Fuck that shit, man. Fuck that shit with a rake.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:53 No.1788760
    Read up on Alex Abel in Unknown Armies.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)17:55 No.1788775
    A rake covered in poisonous spanners?
    >> Vlagga 05/21/08(Wed)17:56 No.1788778
    Hahaha, oh wow
    >> '17 05/21/08(Wed)18:23 No.1788995
         File :1211408636.jpg-(184 KB, 1090x684, Jack-Is-Only-As-Good-As-Jac.jpg)
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    So far so good. Only the face, seeing as it's the most important aspect, on top of scene composition. The largest head is the current working 'model'. I tried for Normal Guy who is way over the edge and not coming back any time soon ... ish.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)18:34 No.1789047
    Your eyes and upper lips are hueg. Draw from a picture.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)19:03 No.1789225
    I can just imagine this guy literally slowly walking towards someone who's running for his life, and anyone in his path gets a knife between the eyes, their guts ripped out, or worse, and he never breaks his stride, or looks away. He just eviscerates anyone dumb enough to get between him and his goal, accidentally or not. They were slowing him down, they aren't now. Then the target starts tiring, and he's still sauntering towards him. The charge redoubles his efforts, and as soon as he's going down for the last time, our man literally CHARGES the motherfucker, puts two knives in his kidneys, and rips him in two. He proceeds to straighten his jacket, clean off the knives on the corpse, and walk away whistling.
    >> '17 05/21/08(Wed)19:11 No.1789276

    Fuck, now I'm getting antsy about what it is I'm drawing. Fuuuuck ...
    >> parabolic000 !!HfL9M9xslOG 05/21/08(Wed)19:18 No.1789322
         File :1211411891.jpg-(23 KB, 707x198, example.jpg)
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    yeah. proportion them better. work from one o' them ovals like this one which I drew in paint, took maybe 4 minutes.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)19:20 No.1789346
    >I can just imagine this guy literally slowly walking towards someone who's running for his life, and anyone in his path gets a knife between the eyes, their guts ripped out, or worse, and he never breaks his stride, or looks away. He just eviscerates anyone dumb enough to get between him and his goal, accidentally or not. They were slowing him down, they aren't now
    That's fucking retarded. It would take more time killing them than just to go around them. Get your fucked up "OH WOW SO EDGY IT'S EXTREEEEEME" crap out of a decent idea for a villain.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)19:39 No.1789501

    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)19:42 No.1789521
         File :1211413359.jpg-(15 KB, 206x337, BuzzedBunny.jpg)
    15 KB
    >> Dagda !hTbo821v7U 05/21/08(Wed)20:41 No.1789887
         File :1211416915.jpg-(253 KB, 500x747, p4a.jpg)
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    Just some musings.

    -I like how the guy remains vulnerable/human, at least in theory; hurts his hand if he punches someone out, feeling tired, etc.
    -It seems to me that his occasional use of humor would be to salt the wounds; adding insult to horrible, debilitating injury.
    -I like the idea of him having a pragmatic efficiency; he has incredible skills in numerous areas, but takes the easiest approach except when satisfying an inclination towards sadism. He could have come up with a master disguise and fooled the bouncer, could have drawn a hidden blade and bled him dry. . .but he punched him. Simplest way to get in, and he feels no need to show off.
    -Frankly, because of the aforementioned pragmatism I think it's best to leave his motivations up to interpretation. It'd probably best to clarify that last one with an analogy, gimme a minute.

    Also, have some potential reference pics.
    >> Dagda !hTbo821v7U 05/21/08(Wed)22:32 No.1790577
         File :1211423538.jpg-(171 KB, 800x817, Rebel_by_Saimain.jpg)
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    Quick age. . .
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)23:34 No.1790988
    I have a few ideas. Small ones which I will likely be trolled for.

    Joker is a bit too nuts but he's a nice working villain you can base some shit off oh. I also like the V angle, though I only saw the movie and like a few pages of the comic.

    I also thought a bit like Garrett from Thief maybe, and Artemis Enteri (this is where I'm going to get trolled)

    For one both of them I'd say seem to fit the Lean, gaunt, and average looking deal. But still quite dangerous.

    Hell Garrett was a good enough thief to steal from a god.
    >> Anonymous 05/21/08(Wed)23:57 No.1791102
    Bumping with the fury of... a... furious bumping thing.

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