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  • File : 1320118919.jpg-(42 KB, 620x349, moyashimon_end.jpg)
    42 KB Agriculture Anonymous 10/31/11(Mon)23:41 No.16802724  
    Taking classes in an agricultural college, I've started to wonder why there isn't a larger focus on farming in any of the ttrpgs I've played. It fills a basic need, yet the most focus it has gotten in the games I've played is "Monsters are attacking the village! Protect the farms!" it's never, "This crop is hardy and drought resistant! Take these seeds to the kingdom as soon as possible so it can sustain itself!" and then later, "This specific pest is threatening the crop! Find a solution!" (this could get resolved in different ways: the PCs could go to a wizard for a pesticide or talk to a druid to help find and collect insects that prey on the pest as a natural means of pest control. Either one could lead to more problems in the future.)

    This thread is for anything agricultural that you've dealt with that's /tg/ related and to test the waters for interest in fantasy agriculture. I'm thinking about homebrewing something no one but me might appreciate.
    >> Anonymous 10/31/11(Mon)23:43 No.16802745
    Once again, Burning Wheel proves to be a great resource.
    >> Anonymous 10/31/11(Mon)23:44 No.16802750
    How so? More information please.
    >> Anonymous 10/31/11(Mon)23:44 No.16802753
    Because farming is boring.

    Sad, but true.
    >> Anonymous 10/31/11(Mon)23:45 No.16802762
    It has enough mundane skills and motivation to make a peasant campaign like you say worthwhile.

    I'd play it.
    >> Anonymous 10/31/11(Mon)23:51 No.16802821
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    Oh okay. Thanks, I'll look into it.

    It doesn't have to be, not when there's magic or sci-fi in the campaign. Managing a farm in either setting could provide loads of conflict. There's also the element of passing time; if the campaign revolved around one farm, the players and PCs could actually have something they control directly and grow with it.
    >> Anonymous 10/31/11(Mon)23:53 No.16802831
    Agriculture is actually fairly knowledge intensive. I don't really know jack shit about running a farm. I have some vague ideas but it's enough to let me know that without a guide...I'd never know when to plant/harvest corn, get my potatos going, set up for long term storage. ETC.

    In point of fact I'm not even sure of the different "Tiers" of farming. Weapon wise, sure we could say Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron ETC. I can understand the potency of the weaponry to an extent. I'm not really sure what major break through are "Get this and suddenly farms are better" technology.


    So OP why don't you tell us a bit of what you think could be interesting details beyond the mundane tropes?
    >> Anonymous 10/31/11(Mon)23:54 No.16802840


    I've always been a lot more interested in the back scene sort of deals with these pen and paper RPGs n such.

    Dwarfs live underground so what do they farm?
    Mushrooms? Tubers? Something akin to an Aardvark cucumber/pumpkin?

    Maybe Dwarfs have unique metabolisms that let them eat dirt?
    Maybe they hunt giant worms as well for food.

    I've always been way more interested in the economy, trade, culture, agriculture, civ/stratagy part of this shit.
    >> Anonymous 10/31/11(Mon)23:54 No.16802842
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    Farming is not boring, it's kawaii.
    >> Anonymous 10/31/11(Mon)23:55 No.16802852
    i fraking love talking about farming and farming accessories, that is the basis of all great societies and empires, ultimately.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:02 No.16802917
    So what are some of the basics one would need to know to make a fantasy campaign revolving around, say, the agricultural industry of a small island nation with minimal outside trade? I don't really know where to start but I think that a lot of interesting stuff could be done with the idea.
    >> farmer fa/tg/uy 11/01/11(Tue)00:02 No.16802919
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    As a farmer, I can attest to this much often the day is anything but boring, sure a lot of times its general maintenance but, often I find myself doing things that I would normally rank as rather thrilling even if its as simple as trying to get hay in before a massive storm there is no really good way to express the panic and fury that you pour out when your moving over two hundred bales of hay just to fee the animals that rely on you all the while trying to beat the fury of nature as it rolls in and drops of rain begin to fall from the sky.
    >> farmer fa/tg/uy 11/01/11(Tue)00:03 No.16802926
    Run factory, harvest moon actually.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:03 No.16802931
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    Microbial life in the soil, depending on aeration, can change the root environment and thus help or hinder the crop. Seeing and communicating with the microbes, like in Tales of Agriculture, could be a very useful skill, though it probably won't help you take down too many orcs.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:05 No.16802945

    According to my mother who specializes in gardening and knows a bit about farming history says that the two biggest innovations were the domestication of livestock and the ability to create metal works.

    By taming beasts of burden such as oxen, goats, horses, etc. they were able to use the power of the animals rather than their own effort to do many things. This meant they could focus more on the technical aspects of farming.

    Metal working was big because it allowed them to create tools that more easily broke through natural materials thus leasing to less effort. it also allowed for the creation of tools design for specific tasks.

    Also irrigation helped immensely because it allowed crops to be planted where it was convenient and not just where the water already was.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:06 No.16802951

    Dunno man, farming is such a huge fucking proffession.

    Even before we start we gotta take into consideration what fantasy race we're doing.

    Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Trolls, and Ogres all probably have different dietary needs then humans.

    What if Orcs And Ogres Can't digest fruit or something? And like, Dwarves have such amazingly powerfull livers/guts that they can digest almost any organic matter so long as it isn't rotten or something.

    Then there's the interesting aspect of Fantasy pest control.

    Fantasy Crops and Livestock.

    And all sorts of cool aspects.

    What would farming be like in a skyworld? Those sorts of interesting questions come up.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:10 No.16802987
    Organic farming is a major breakthrough. Yes, it's been around for a while and yes it's something that hippies enjoy, but the fact is that it works. Conservation methods work better than the conventional methods: Practicing no-till protects the soil moisture and increases the organic matter. Organic materials form humus, a colloid that keep cations from draining through the soil, making them available to plants. Also, crop rotation does wonders for soil.
    >> farmer fa/tg/uy 11/01/11(Tue)00:10 No.16802988
    Start with humans, seriously its the basic most simple way of looking at things.

    also, I can say this much Farmers can be terrifying in their own right. It takes a beast of a man to take down a hundred plus pound animal and hold it to the floor and somehow manage to secure a rubber band around its balls and managing to rinse and repeat this till you have steered em all.
    >> farmer fa/tg/uy 11/01/11(Tue)00:12 No.16803007
    YES thank god, though, it does have its faults, as a beef farmer I can say this much. we vaccinate our cattle. Outside of that they are organic. We do the vaccinations out of caution and respect. I've seen how 'organic' beefers look and often they're rather sorry looking animals.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:14 No.16803023
    Don't fuck up.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:15 No.16803031
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    The real fun would start when that small island community is introduced to the rest of the world. The central goal of the campaign would probably be managing trade, marketing your crops, introducing new crops (and pests... don't forget the pests) all while trying not to end up like Hawaii.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:16 No.16803038
    ITT Farmer specific jargon.

    Afraid I only half understood that as a layman..

    I agree with the point that most farmers should be pretty strong.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:18 No.16803061
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    Basically not plowing fields, rotating what crops you've plant and also generally working with nature rather than taming it makes for happier dirt.

    Also, yes, yes they should be.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:19 No.16803068
    A thought, but can we Agree that the Potato would be the "Human" of the vegetable world?

    It can be eaten by any being/humanoid and it'll grow pretty easily anywhere?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:20 No.16803078
    Pretty much, the damn thing grows nearly anywhere, can be edible but, the leaves and stalk are highly toxic.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:20 No.16803080
    Now, if we want to talk about ways to make farming part of a plot hook there are a number of ways.

    Let's assume we are in a time of war. It's also been a pretty dry season and the crops are already struggling. A ruthless leader, unsure of his ability to win in a straight military battle might resort to tactics such as damming rivers to cripple the food supplies of the country. Couples this with raids on stables and animal pens and the economy/population could take a severe dive. What's worse is that the issues might not seem to big to an unobservant royal class until they have reached crisis levels.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:23 No.16803107
    Taxes are reaching a rather intolerable level, the farms in risk of being taken over by the kingdom barring their ability to produce crops of large yield/quality to offset the tax rate.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:24 No.16803119
    Farmers need to be smart, not strong.
    Colloids are soil particles that are so small, cations (positively charged atoms) love the fuck out of them and freely exchange on them. They don't have to be organic (humus) they can also be clay (but not all clay, some clay particles are too big).

    Tilling is what you do when you prepare land for farming. It mixes up like 6-12 inches of the soil, making seed beds (furrows) and killing the weeds (they also provide organic material).

    Crop rotation is when you use different crops on a single field. If you plan it right, you can make it so that each crop compliments the next.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:26 No.16803138
    Really, they need to be both. A farmer is something of a chimera of ideals. They are tough, smart and strong ideally. Its in fact a misconception to think of them as ignorant hicks. They may not have much in the way of academic education but, often have skills and knowledge they've picked up over time that simply can't be gained any other way.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:27 No.16803149
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    Potatoes originated from South America. Brazil is in South America.

    The human crop should be grapes because wine is society.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:29 No.16803163
    Potato Vodka.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:29 No.16803164
    Depends really if you wan't to have the most 'human' crop. It's corn. Its adapated to us and only us
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:31 No.16803185
    Corn is actually scary. Corn starch, corn syrup, we feed the animals we eat so much corn. We ARE corn.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:32 No.16803190

    My second idea for the Human defining Crop would be corn.
    Corn or Potatoes or both.

    >tactics such as damming rivers to cripple the food supplies of the country

    I could see a whole plethora of side quests when the shit downstream starts to dry up and we get mobs of Angry Rice paddy owning Elves and Animal People Fishermen.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:33 No.16803204

    On the flip side heavy rains or flooding could cause just as much of a problem for a farmer if not more as they can cause structural damage as well as loss of crops.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:34 No.16803210
    I'm so happy I'm not alone on this board. While all of my friends are out becoming artists and scientists, I was alone in pursuing something in the field of horticulture.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:34 No.16803213
    Barley = Beer = Long distance traveling = Large scale trade..
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:34 No.16803216

    Also simple competition with competing farmers even though its not common its far from unheard of.
    >> farmer fa/tg/uy 11/01/11(Tue)00:35 No.16803225
    Parks and recreation management myself. Which college good anon?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:36 No.16803235
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    I'm Also wondering about what would be considered the "Human" equivelent in Livestock.

    I'm split between pigs and cattle.

    Cows give milk, meat, leather hides, and tons of cultures have raised them: Vikings, Greeks, egyptians, Chinese, etc..

    But Pigs.. jesus christ.

    >pic related.
    Orcs love pork!
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:36 No.16803240

    You probably don't hear this often but, thank you.

    We have plenty of science. The world needs more farmers.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:37 No.16803244
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    Adding hops preserves beer. For long distance trade from India, brewers would add hops. Indian pale ales taste nasty for no goddamn reason.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:39 No.16803266

    No way, man, SimFarm and Harvest Moon fulfilled a crucial niche need for me as a kid.
    >> farmer fa/tg/uy 11/01/11(Tue)00:39 No.16803268
    Oi! cornhole is a great game and an awesome way to relax after a long day of farming! Also personally I'll take a good pilsner or stout in the winter with some exceptions.

    Though dear god a local brewery makes a chocolate lager that is godly
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:41 No.16803294
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    New Mexico State University in Las Cruces. It's a great place, though recently a student died on campus. The rumor is that someone got drunk and thought it would be fun to go cow tipping.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:42 No.16803313
    How does one play cornhole?
    >> farmer fa/tg/uy 11/01/11(Tue)00:43 No.16803321
    Ah SUNY Morrisville myself. A brother in southwest, I didn't realize they had many ag programs out there.

    As for cornhole its rather simple, Just toss a bag filled with corn into a special board, there's a bit more to it than that but thats the basics
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:46 No.16803353
    Farmers are going to be huge sources of worship in any setting where gods gain benefits from prayer. About the only people I can see as their equal in having reasons to pray for shit are soldiers, medics and in certain cases miners.

    Weather, disease, earth, transportation, growth... a whole hell of a lot of domains would tie into farming in some way. A cleric in a farming village is probably going to be serving a large number of gods at once instead of devoting himself deeply to a single one.
    >> Aggie 11/01/11(Tue)00:47 No.16803358
    You're welcome. For your kind words I will tell you a secret: Cotton normally has a gland that produces a toxic chemical. We have bred cotton without this gland. Invest in cotton.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:47 No.16803367
    I can only imagine that being the single most harried looking cleric in the town though well fed one would assume
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:48 No.16803370
    Go to /y/ and let them educate you.
    >> Real men take it how it comes. 11/01/11(Tue)00:48 No.16803371
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    Hey! I thought I ordered decaf?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:50 No.16803388
    The alternative is that you have a whole bunch of traveling priests and priestesses, doing a circuit of the local villages. The benefit is each cleric you get is an expert in their field, the downside is that you're not going to have all types of cleric at once.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:52 No.16803405
    one would assume in that case that perodic holidays occur as a priest comes to town.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:54 No.16803412
    >and in certain cases miners.

    Try all.

    Even nowadays mining is dangerous as all fuck and we know what safety entails.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:56 No.16803427
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    Vanilla triticale is shit-tier. Everyone knows quadrotriticale is the bee's knees.
    >> Aggie 11/01/11(Tue)00:57 No.16803430
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    Traveling horticulturalists is realistic. Today there are organic solution firms that help farmers using conventional methods to plan a gradual shift to organic. Many vineyards are hiring these people because growing organically helps the soil which help the grapes. Some soil scientists in Europe are treated like rock stars due to the quality of the vineyard hanging on the quality of the soil; have healthy, living soil and get positive review from one of these guys and you're set.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:57 No.16803433
    As an urban farmer, this thread warms my heart. Keep it real, fellow growers.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)00:58 No.16803440
    Would be a great excuse to have non-evil undead, for example: you need to keep people around between the time when they theoretically should have shuffled off this mortal coil and when the deathpriest shows up so they can do it properly.
    >> farmer fa/tg/uy 11/01/11(Tue)00:58 No.16803443
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    true, I've gotta say I have a skewed perception given my background as a beef cattleman but, I do know enough about dirt to work it properly. Also, pic related my modest herd
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:00 No.16803461
    im personally not a fan of corn for largescale production.

    sure it is a c4 photosynthesiser, and thus is highly efficient at converting carbon into biomatter, but if bulk matter is what you are worried about sugar cane is even more efficient still.

    its not exactly ideal as a food staple either, consisting mostly of carbohydrates with little addition protein or vitamins. its pretty much a tween state crop, but it got real popular because of that too.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:01 No.16803468
    Don't forget about forests. Start throwing around fireballs and shit with abandon in one and there's always the chance that the local woodsmen show up and start ruining your shit because you just destroyed twenty years of effort growing quality lumber.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:02 No.16803484
    yeah its also horrible for cattle, the high sugar content leads to a higher rate of ulcers as well as acids in their stomachs given them constant gut aches.

    Of course, it works well in the states which isn't all that shocking given it did evolve here and we selected for it as well.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:03 No.16803495
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    >/tg/ - turf & gardening
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:05 No.16803508
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:05 No.16803516

    I would imagine Druids/shaman/mystics/PLANT WIZARDS would be more popular, atleast in rural areas.

    You've got the priest who's devoted to a few gods and then you've got the sorcerer who's made a pact to preserve nature.

    Just find like a crooked druid or who's found acceptable bends in the rules- like a human or Dwarf one.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:07 No.16803527
    possibly a blending of all three, think a well agri-priest/druid a man or woman devoted to ensuring that things are neat and tidy. Really he'd be a bit like the rabbi were in times past
    >> Aggie 11/01/11(Tue)01:08 No.16803536
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    Fuck turfies, they can go tend to golf courses their whole lives, we're going to be feeding the world.

    Not just fireballs, druids. Adventurer druids that don't know that using the powers of nature to take down a dragon really screws with local agriculture.

    That's so cool! What type of bull is that on the right?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:09 No.16803546
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    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:09 No.16803557
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    actually, that's the oldest cow on the farm. She's a scottish highlander, one of the most boss breeds out there.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:10 No.16803566
    Why force the magical farmers into other molds? Just call them "Farmers" and be done with it. They have a good relationship with the nature deities, they know how to deal with animals, they understand crop rotation and the like... pretty much what farmers do now, but with clearly defined bonuses from the magics.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:12 No.16803575
    Like bards with the druid's spelllist and different class features!
    >> Aggie 11/01/11(Tue)01:12 No.16803577
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    I think this calls for a prestige class. A very interesting prestige class.

    What do you grow?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:17 No.16803624

    >Imagines an odyssy like quest.

    >Local Wizard/Adventurers have burned down an Orchard that Belongs to a Two-headed Ogre

    >The fucker goes down hill and essentially throws a shit fit because his livelyhood is ruined.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:22 No.16803671
    Farming in tabletop?

    How else do you think Druids survive?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:24 No.16803694
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    A better question: is cornhole a traditional game?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:25 No.16803703
    Instinctive knowledge of exactly which things to eat in order to best preserve a stable equilibrium in the local ecosystem?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:27 No.16803718
    Instinctive? Nah, friend. You're born a Druid as much as you're born a Wizard. You have to learn it.

    A druid is not much more than a wild magic farmer. Put one in society and you've got a civilized magic farmer.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:27 No.16803724
    A hella lot. I'm with a nonprofit organization in Milwaukee, but thanks to hoophouses, greenhouses, and composting we can keep decent temperatures year-round.

    We churn out sprouts and salad greens like a fucking factory, we get hella tomatoes, and our aquaponics systems are just awesome.

    Plus a pair of 30-acre plots in the suburbs means we can grow more than we can sell of peppers, tomatoes, carrots, collards, melons, squash, and a bunch more that I'm forgetting.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:29 No.16803742
    have you looked into the integrated aquaculture systems they've been working on? I've seen some where there's fish farms within the greenhouses.

    and pretty damn traditional I'd say
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:31 No.16803759

    Oh god, thats right, we haven't even TOUCHED Aquaculture yet!
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:33 No.16803770
    Yeah, we've got like 8 of those systems on our main site. Two acres, 6 greenhouses, 10 big hoophouses. Right in the middle of a city.

    We've got tilapia, perch, and pacu at the moment.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:34 No.16803777
    Well, obviously, but once you've learned it it's not something that involves active thought or spellcasting. You just know. It's like being able to see a specific type of pattern and everything's place in it.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:34 No.16803781
    Good to hear, sounds like you've got the basics of fish triangle land managed. have you thought of moving into other cities as well?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:34 No.16803782

    I can see it now:




    (Space Marine bashing in a zombie's head with a powershovel.)


    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:37 No.16803800
    We've got satellite projects in Chicago and Madison, and I'm pretty sure the boss wants to start one up wherever he can find the manpower to do so.
    >> Ragin Cajun !!GAEOMPuvNpR 11/01/11(Tue)01:38 No.16803807
    fuck you OP, now I need to rewatch Moyashimon now, I wish they would have made more than 11 episodes
    >> farmer fa/tg/uy 11/01/11(Tue)01:38 No.16803814
    good to hear, I may have to look into this more. Though sadly, my skill set is geared towards forestry. Speaking of which another section of things we havne't touched yet.

    fuck it I want to make an Agri-punk setting now
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:41 No.16803834
    Growing Power is the name of the organization. Will Allen is the guy behind it all.

    I just got hired on a few months ago and I'm already excited to watch how the future's going to unfold. If you're ever in the Milwaukee area, take a tour of the place.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:44 No.16803852
    Will do whenever I manage. Also, agripunk?

    Where bustling cities are fueled by pastoral settings ripe with crazy shennaigans and strange goings ons?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:45 No.16803866
    So kind of like the real world, except we actually acknowledge that our food doesn't come from nowhere and our surplus manufactured and cultural goods don't just disappear into the ether.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:46 No.16803872
    If I were doing agripunk, I'd set in ancient Sumer, which is easily my favorite under-served gaming setting.

    Seriously, it's pretty much what you describe.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:46 No.16803886
    pretty much though you could do it in several different ages or hell just make it whole cloth and say fantasy land where farming and working with land has actual magic to it.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:54 No.16803954
    I wouldn't actually mind if we rebooted the topic with a little discussion about aquaculture.

    It interests my the prospect of Merpeople farming salmon or kelp.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:56 No.16803984
    They use domesticated sea otters to guard the kelp fields against sea urchin swarms.
    >> Aggie 11/01/11(Tue)01:56 No.16803985
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    I love that opening. There's a live action show too, but I'm not too big on live action anime. Might be cool. Here's the manga:

    It's so sad that it will never get a proper localization. This and Kami no Shizuku (the wine manga).

    Congratulations! That sounds awesome!

    I'd play it, though what I've been thinking up is a post-apocalypse where farming communities are trying to get by. This forces agriculture into the center of the campaign, though I really like the idea of focusing on agriculture despite the wide range of things that could happen in a city.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)01:59 No.16804015

    Would Farming seals/walruses serve as a similar function to cattle?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)02:01 No.16804030
    Nope. That's what sirenians are for. Dugongs, manatees, etc.

    Assuming that you don't have Awakened Manatees as your farmers.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)02:03 No.16804048

    And Orcs living in Swamps farming Catfish and noodeling?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)02:11 No.16804131
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    Growing the fantasy equivalent of marijuana would be profitable, just as it is in the real world. A campaign based around this could be like Breaking Bad but with magic.

    Walruses should be playable.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)02:21 No.16804211
    Noodeling in a world where there are things like aboleths and tarrasques sounds like it could go wrong so fast. I'm sure that the mortality rate would be high enough to make it to where only the strongest, bravest, dumbest, and/or most skilled would ever attempt noodeling. If you ever need to gain the respect of an orc...
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)02:21 No.16804214
    Potions of Haste
    regulated like meth
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)02:27 No.16804263
    A lot of these potions could be seen as PCP or steroids in general.

    Weed could enhance the casting abilities of clerics and druids.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)03:00 No.16804494
    When I first saw this thread, I never thought it would go anywhere. I fucking love all of you.

    >/tg/ - tenacious gardeners
    >> Aggie 11/01/11(Tue)10:04 No.16806525
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    I know the subject of wine hasn't taken off in this thread, so I'm going to try again. Terraces up in this.

    In our world, wine is one of the most prestigious culinary products. In a fantasy world, the process of winemaking could be more magical and intensive not to mention the wine culture could be more brutal and obsessive.
    Now that I think of it, the culinary arts in a fantasy setting would be an excellent central theme: There are plenty of mythical beasts to slay and eat, magical techniques to use in the kitchen, and there isn't much attention drawn to plant life, but you could just apply our own plant species and varieties to any setting, or just get creative.
    A system for preparing a meal beyond rolling a d20 once would be interesting. In a Redwall thread we had a while back I was playing with the idea of a system that would work like slots when making something consumable.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)10:21 No.16806608
    One would imagine various 'classes' operating in different mundane proffessions that have a slight kick to them weather its they're just a really good farmer or an excellent wine maker its nothing major, but they've got a little extra talent at doing what they do.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)11:52 No.16807145
    bump for something actuallly interesting from /tg/
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)11:55 No.16807156
    Incidentally, I confess to running a campaign centered around running a wizard's vineyard. In hidsight, allowing them to play five rogues was a slight mistake.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)11:58 No.16807176
    I can't see why this would be a bad problem. Also, if anything move the hell away from D20 for something like this. It just doesn't have the right stuff to properly run a good game of farming it up.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:02 No.16807208
    Proof that /tg/ can have a coherent discussion about anything. Props.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:02 No.16807213
    When you have a con artist, halfling twins, an elven bandit and a tiefling of negotiable affection doing something they consider boring, shit does happen quite often. Then again, it was rather interesting. A bloody nightmare to run, mind you, but still.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:03 No.16807218
    I have to say the idea of a 'farm/mundane' campaign in a fantasy campaign is certainly promising.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:07 No.16807249
    Not necessarily, without prohibition there wouldn't be too high a price. Now considering hemp for ropes though...
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:07 No.16807251
    Hmm, just maybe have it so each player has a selection of skills to choose from?
    >> Alpharius 11/01/11(Tue)12:14 No.16807299
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    This thread is fantastic. I know absolutely nothing about farming, horticulture, or agriculture, and it all seems fascinating.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:17 No.16807312
    Indeed, as a forester I've gotta say I like the idea of taking a step back from sword and socerery for a minute and looking at things with the mindset of well, that dude at the plow.

    Sure, he's gotta deal with goblins and orcs and all sorts of crazy shit. But, barring ya know something so terrifying that even an army backs down. He's not gonna give a rat's ass and charge in and beat them over the head with a hoe for stealing his parsnips
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:19 No.16807324
    I wouldn't be surprised if DSA had rules for that, at the very least simple ones - You can start with a party consisting of people from realistic professions, after all. And these professions are actually useful on your travels.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:24 No.16807360
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:27 No.16807372
    Unique fantasy crops. We need them. Something like bananas, perhaps?

    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:29 No.16807381
    We should have threads like this more often. I've felt like there's been something missing in all the games I've GMed and I think this is it.

    Let's just say that weed helps people with WIS and CHA based casting and hell yes a ruling class of wizards would want to regulate it.

    What's DSA?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:29 No.16807382
    Hemp is pretty amazing, or at least that's what the pro-hemp propaganda says. The fibers can be treated into cloth or rope or into paper. The Hemp seed oil has a number of properties and I believe Hemp seed itself has some culinary properties, ala sesame seeds. It's a very jack of all trades plant from what it does, but like a bard it doesn't really excel in any of these aspects compared to others.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:31 No.16807396
    Das Schwarze Auge (The Dark Eye in English).
    German fantasy rollplaying system featuring a free skill system and very simulationist rules regarding survival in the wilderness.
    And yes, farming is a skill, just like woodwork, mechanical engineering or fishing.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:31 No.16807399
    Bananas are horrible mutant fruits made possible by making a hybrid out of two modest and somewhat unappetizing fruits.

    As far as fantasy plants go, I'd probably steal the Pop Greens from One Piece. Super fast growing seeds that, when planted, grow into ridiculous vines that can entangle what's nearby.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:32 No.16807405
    Well, there are plant creatures that bear fruit... For example, the Monster Manual claims that Assassin Vines grow berries that you can make in a drink. I've dubbed it "Assassin Wine". It was probably invented by a dwarf who tried to make every monster he killed into a drink.

    Now if you wanted to cultivate assassin vines, and harvest them, you'd better be damn sure you have a lot of Grease spells on hand...
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:34 No.16807416
    Banana wine sounds like it would taste awful and I'm pretty sure it'd be expensive due to the low juice content, but now you've got me curious.

    Keeping bees and making mead sounds like something awesome for an insect druid.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:35 No.16807418
    DSA is pretty much the German D&D, it's played by everyone. (And you will get laughed at for seriously considering D&D)
    It's also got a fuckload of metaplot and background on the setting. Whole books have been written for every single town and country and there's even information about local wildlife and stuff like that.
    Magic is weaker than in D&D.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:38 No.16807442
    Drinking something made from the fruit of the assassin vine sounds unethical. It's like second degree cannibalism. I remember flipping through the horror DnD book and seeing that eating fruit from a witches garden would earn you a taint point due to her using the remains of children as fertilizer. Creepy.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:38 No.16807447
    As the drunkard I am, I've tried making both wine and vodka from bananas. The wine is terrible. It tastes like ash with sugar no matter what you do with it and needs a shitton of bananas. The vodka is one of the better things to come out of my still, while still needing a metric shitton of bananas (exact measurement).
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:39 No.16807457
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    I am banned from farming in 3.5. Seriously. Our DM made the city design that we were mainly located in after ancient Babylon. Hanging gardens everywhere and I had to get in on that. So, my character Steve the Sorcerer, made a few purchases for some black lotus, cultivated them and grew some more, then sold some. Now for those of you who don't know black lotus can seriously fuck up your con. I grew some, and by some I mean tons. I was able to do this by using abandoned pools and rooftop gardens to make some black lotus fronds. I also used other buildings to grow truffles and other exotic produce. After doing this I was able to gain a good portion of control of the underworld of the city. Then I was trading in illicit plants that gave off hallucinatory effects and other goodies. The DM seeing where this was going, and the campaign changed. Pretty soon I was jockeying for power against other vice lords. I made an alliance with the assassins guild and I was able to take all the other vice lords crops. I became the great drug kingpin of the city. I was a threat. So, the entire underworld went after me and the party.
    >mfw campaign becomes scarface.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:40 No.16807461
    Bananas contain far too much sugar in their juice. You would have to thin it or get extremely sweet wine since the yeast would die via alcohol poisoning before processing all of it.

    Flim Flam Funkel, bitches!
    The incredible spell that makes a shining ball of light.
    FEAR ME!!!
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:40 No.16807465
    >Magic is weaker than in D&D.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:40 No.16807466
    Hm, now that you mention it, it is pretty likely that those fruits would be fertilized by dead bodies... Of course, if you cultivated them I'm sure you could artificially fertilize them.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:42 No.16807474
    How about undead ones? Animate Vineyard!
    That way it could even move with the sun.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:43 No.16807476
    >"YOU NEED PEOPLE LIKE ME" the wizard yelled

    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:43 No.16807478
    What about using pears to make wine? Or dandelions? How do they taste?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:45 No.16807491
    Pears are meh. We did it in high school. Slightly sweeter though.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:46 No.16807494
    Heliotropic plants powered by death?

    I'm down with that.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:46 No.16807496
    I'm clapping, I hope you can hear me. After liberating a town, each character was given a lot of land. I didn't want to distract from the campaign, so I didn't put too much thought into what to do with it. Now I wish I had.

    I'm imagining him with a robe and wizard hat with stars and moons on it. And laughing.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:46 No.16807498
    Pears are great. You need slightly overripe ones and maybe a pinch of spicing. They make a rich, powerful and very sweet wine. Dandelions? Never tried that one. I might when the current batch (homegrown Tokaji grapes, I have high hopes for this one) is ready to bottle.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:47 No.16807506
    professional winemaker here, you need to use fruits with high acid content to make wine from, so berries (straw, rasp, blue, black) are good as are melons.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:49 No.16807520
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    Have you ever tried Ace Pear Cider? It's pretty good, though it isn't cheap. This would fall under the catagory of "queer beer." I guess gays know what's good.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:49 No.16807521
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    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:50 No.16807526
    My mother used to make her own dandelion wine. I am also very fond of mead myself. Mead being the fucking nector of the gods
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:53 No.16807551
    Shit is so easy to make.
    I know a lot of people who made some.
    With varying results.
    One badge became extremely strong due to port cultures while another transformed into some kind of sweet champaigne for some reason.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:53 No.16807552
    OP, here's what I want you to do.

    Play one of the Harvest Moon or Rune Factory games.

    Notice how quickly it ceases to be fun.

    Now imagine you are doing this much more slowly around a table with five other people.

    Do you REALLY want to do this?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:56 No.16807562
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    Kinda like this?
    Anyways yeah. Steve got his glorious ending after the Wizards guild and the Assassins guild sent people to take care of him with people from the city guard. Steve went down swinging, but used a lot of that black lotus extract to weaken the hell out of his opponents. Including a dragon.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:56 No.16807566
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    I know that Alexander the Great paid quite a lot of attention to farming and harvesting traditions, specifically he used them to aid in conquest. He would force the peoples of a land to choose, either to make muster and leave the harvest to rot in the fields, or to have food for the winter and pay tax to their new king.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)12:57 No.16807571
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    Plum wine is also pretty good, it's got an odd aftertaste, but legitimately odd. Not bad-odd, just different-odd.

    And of course, you have your rice wines, aka sake.

    I mean, the logistics of rice paddies in a D&D world are terrifying. Hordes of level 1 commoners in an area where they can't see below their knees, who know what's lurking underneath? Dire Leeches? Some sort of giant water bug ankheg hybrid?

    Hell, on the Ankhegs, it's mentioned in the monster manual that they are beneficial to farms due to their tunneling habits, churning the soil and aerating it from underneath....but they occasionally eat cows and farmers. Would someone perhaps have domesticated ankhegs and just go around in a circuit each year, farm to farm, to tunnel and aerate their soil for a fee?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:02 No.16807600

    "I tell you what, Martha, that soil's looking great, I'm so glad we rented out those ankhegs...Martha? Where'd you go, Martha?"
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:03 No.16807619
    It's pretty fucking disturbing knowing that your farm is running so well due to giant bug predators that live underneath it.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:07 No.16807638
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    oh no
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:09 No.16807651
    What? No it wouldn't. In an undeveloped medieval world it would grow well enough on its own. Why not try selling the peasants bottle water while you're at it.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:12 No.16807670
    You clearly aren't the target audience of the HM series, considering the notoriety they have for drawing players in to the point of losing all track of time. Besides, he's not asking for a farming game, he just wants a more complete representation of farming in his ttrpg.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:13 No.16807680
    I think most successful conquerors knew to give some priority to Agriculture. The Jin Dynasty pretty much turned China into a bureaucratized war machine making sure every bit of rice was properly harvested and rationed to the military down to the last portion.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:14 No.16807690
    >selling the peasants bottle water while you're at it.

    Here, for a copper, I can give you water that is GARUNTEED to not be cursed, diseased, full of stirge larva, tainted with lead or mercury, or harmful to you in any way.

    Could work, bro.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:17 No.16807700
    I have taken your post into consideration, and if I ever run a game of something like D&D, I will explore these themes.

    However, I am a man that likes combat in his tabletop gaems, and as such, I'd be more likely to say "You are in a field. All you see is corn. You may be eaten by a grue." rather than "You are in a field. All you see is corn. It looks sickly, and it's your job to fix that."
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:18 No.16807711
    I think I could do that

    I could also add some snake oil extract to the elixir, I'm pretty much certain that it can heal trench foot, headaches, Helms disease and some others.

    Hey it's just a silver, could you really live with the possibility that it works and you didn't buy it?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:19 No.16807722
    Now that is something I am going to have to try. Going full blown T Boone Pickins and get the rights to all naturally occurring springs.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:20 No.16807733
    It depends on the sort of game you're running, but I think long-term it makes sense;

    Imagine the sugar cane field parts in from L4D2, quick furious zero-visibility combat, but now imagine a nearby compound, months of defending, laying low, planting the next harvest in anticipation of no rescue coming.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:22 No.16807747
    Tactical planting of cover/bait seems like an interesting tactic.

    Wild beasts attracted to Wheat? Plant a few rows and hid behind them. As they start chowing down, they may not notice the Bolts coming at them.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:23 No.16807755
    Thread am archived.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:26 No.16807777
    > D&D: You're in a corn field, corn everywhere.
    - I roll detect evil!

    > DSA: You're in a corn field, corn everywhere.
    - I roll for farming to see whether it is ripe for harvest.
    Ok, you see it is ripe and needs to be harvested soon.
    - Great, if we help the farmer, we might score a hot meal and a night in the barn.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:31 No.16807812
    You don't roll for detect evil.
    And farmers don't give you meals, they work you down, don't pay you and rape you while you sleep, to tired to defend yourself.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:34 No.16807839
    >And farmers don't give you meals, they work you down, don't pay you and rape you while you sleep, to tired to defend yourself.

    I seem to have missed something about this thread.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:35 No.16807854
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    >Managing a farm in either setting could provide loads of conflict.

    The conflict that led to swiss independance was started when a bishop claimed the rights to some alpine grazing grounds and the free peaseants of the valley nearby that did the same burnt down his monastery in return.

    People don't know that monasteries did most of the colonization work in Europe and were fundamental at keeping travel routes intact.

    Other things that people do not realize is that corn is an insane crops. No equivalent that would even approximate the corn we're harvesting exist in the wild - you won't survive on wild corn because it's tiny and shit. Some crazy ass South Americans must've wasted five or six generations on dicking around with a completely useless, dry tiny piece of shit grass for the offchance that it might become the shit in the future. Which it did.

    Now think D&D with some Lich doing nothing but dicking around with plants and domesticating every animal ever. Think of all the fucking wierdass food he would create.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:39 No.16807875
    Sorry, I never played D&D. So you don't roll.
    You just use your unspecified magic ability because your setting is so full of magic, everyone has it.
    And you detect the orc sleeping in the field because he is evil by definition.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:41 No.16807897

    Yes and no. Detect Evil requires you to focus on a location for a bit, and the weaker the evil enemy, the weaker the evil aura, and thus the easier it is to miss. It's also got a set range.

    None of this applies in 4E, though, because 4E alignments have no mechanical effects whatsoever. No alignment detection, no alignment-locked items, nothing.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:43 No.16807910
    >Oh no, I'm too neutral to wield this sword! The magic in this heavenly weapon is offended by my moral ambiguity.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:45 No.16807931
    sooooo... can any of you agheads recommend a good agricultural manual/farming book/whatever for those who want a little knowledge without taking on a full apprenticeship?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:46 No.16807945

    It's mostly intelligent items, like the sword of an ancient hero that demands to be wielded only by someone pure of heart and fucks up anyone else who tries to use it, or the foul tome of a necromancer that attacks or corrupts anyone who attempts to read it without nefarious purposes.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:47 No.16807946
    Did alignments kill your parents or something?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:48 No.16807959
    If I were a good mage capable of creating magical artifacts I would make damn sure that those artifacts wouldn't be used for evil.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:51 No.16807995

    A good example from second edition: the three wizard librams.

    The Libram of Gainful Conjuration benefits only neutral wizards; a good or evil wizard attempting to read it takes 5d4 damage, gets knocked out for 5d4 turns, and must atone to a priest or he can't gain XP anymore. For neutral wizards, a week of cloistered study of the book gives them enough XP to be halfway to their next level (whatever that level may be).

    The libram of ineffable damnation does the same, but only benefits evil wizards, and the libram of silver magic is the good wizard version.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:52 No.16808002

    I too, would request such a tome of agricultural wisdom, something for us simpletons
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:54 No.16808012

    Prolly much De Agri Cultura. It was written for roman player characters after all.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)13:59 No.16808047
    No. I just find the logic most amusing.
    It's good to hear it being a purely descriptive part in 4e, since I remember a lot of situations being laid out here where shit just didn't make any sense.

    And how do you determine if someone is evil?
    You can't unless you look at his alignement or he's a bizarre cartoon villain.
    Good and evil is a social construct and has little to do with what someone actually does but how you look at it and whether it benefits you.
    This simplistic system keeps D&D from producing a believeable world by forcing each and everything into this 3X3 grid.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)14:03 No.16808088

    Also of note: if you trace back far enough, OD&D had only three alignments: Lawful, Neutral, Chaotic. The Good-Evil axis wasn't added until Greyhawk, pretty much.

    Weirdly, 4E has basically gone the other way, stripping off Law and Chaos almost entirely. 4E has just five alignments: Lawful Good, Good, Unaligned, Evil, Chaotic Evil. I like to think of it as being just a straight Good-Neutral-Evil axis for the most part, with LG and CE being picked out as particularly significant offshoots of Good and Evil respectively.

    Okay, so there are SOME alignment mechanics in 4E: Clerics must be the same alignment as their deity or Unaligned (or any alignment if the deity is Unaligned), and Paladins must be exactly the same alignment as their deity with no exceptions.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)14:12 No.16808180
    Being one-dimensional makes it even worse.
    The range is thereby limited to a "from venerate to kill" axis.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)14:15 No.16808194

    I've found references to other agricultural treatises - like the chinese Fan Shengzhi shu, but no online texts.

    The rest's mostly greek and Latin stuff - Theophrastus Enquiry into Plants which is a very scholarly text.

    Lucius Junius Moderatus Columella wrote De Re Rustica on the topic, but it's a text you'll actually have to study and at last Pliny's Natural History is apparently full of tidbits on agriculture.
    >> Aggie 11/01/11(Tue)14:30 No.16808302
    Hartmann & Kester's Plant Propagation is pretty great, it's a textbook from my plant prop class. You might want to brush up on soil science too.

    >Now think D&D with some Lich doing nothing but dicking around with plants and domesticating every animal ever.
    That's a pretty great concept.

    Farmers use some interesting tactics to protect their crops organically. Growing lavender as a cover crop between furrows attracts beneficial insects that feed on pests.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)14:38 No.16808354
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    >That's a pretty great concept.

    Pet Foxes, fertile mules and wierdass hybrid horses for everyone.
    >> Aggie 11/01/11(Tue)14:39 No.16808361
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    I'm sure with magic there are all sorts of irrigation innovations. Manipulating the soil to draw upon the ground water would beat out drip irrigation.

    Flood irrigation wastes water through drainage and leaching through the soil, past the roots and down into the water table, not to mention the compaction of the soil due to the weight of the water.

    I don't know if creatures this big can help out THAT much. While soil aeration is very important, if there are big creatures tunneling around and disturbing the root systems, they might do more harm than good. What's great about earthworms is that they create little tunnels for water to move through with capillary forces. The larger the tunnel, the less adhesion.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)14:41 No.16808366

    This is a good day.

    We still talking about farming in general?
    I've read through things and it looks like we still haven't mentioned much about other Races/species farming practices.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)14:56 No.16808455

    This is more of a Question for Trappers, but is there any effecient way of pest control for burrowing animals?

    I mean fantasy farmers would have to deal with:
    Giant bugs, giant moles, giant rats, giant earth warms, Land Sharks, and the like.

    Not counting burrowing animal people who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    How do farmers in real life general deal with these pests?

    I Really like the idea of Dwarves or Trolls Actually Hunting Giant Worms for easy meat. Makes me wonder how you'd even Cook a giant earth worm or what it'd taste like.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)15:13 No.16808572
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    The mediterranean people's hate for landsharks would be legendary.


    Then Suddenly Land Shark move through and your plantation is doned for.

    Likewise, large burrowing animals would be the number one cause for landslides in a fantasy setting and landslides are terrible in general. You can bet your ass that they'd sent the Kobolds after them.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)15:25 No.16808687


    Found they're official name.
    Bullete, seems to be some kind of egg laying burrowing monster that has a life span of maybe 60-70 years and can grow as big as a hippopotamus.

    The thing burrows out through the ground like a combination between a horse driven spade and a shark looking for prey.


    I could totally see entire teams of Kobolds and Dwarfs being hired out to smoke out the Tunnels of Land sharks.

    It'd be just like the untouchables from Inida: they smoke out the rats in the brahman fields and then as a reward they get to cook and eat the rats.

    >4chan won't let me upload images.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)15:29 No.16808728
    Who needs irrigation when you have a Decanter of Endless Water?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)15:38 No.16808813

    Who needs to work when you can simply open a portal into the dimension of warm food?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)15:44 No.16808856
    rolled 23 = 23

    >city dweller here

    Admittedly I too once believed farming was the trade for simple-minded ignorant hicks. How wrong I was when I started taking biology classes that dealt with, among other things, the natural world, soil, plants, trees, farming practices and such. Shit made my head spin. All this shit about nitrates, erosion, silt, clay, sand, etc etc. So much goes into farming. Farmers have to have some of the most diverse levels of education among professional workers in the world today. Varying degrees of both plant and animal biology, economics, mechanical knowledge, various types of craftsmanship, and pure hard ball-busting labor. It's one of the last pure manly professions in the world /tg/.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)15:45 No.16808867

    Endless Water has to come from somewhere.

    What if it just sucks up water from somewhere else? Or a Well or something?

    What if it's magical in origins and just sort of sucks the water vapor from the proceeding area and turns it directly into water or sucks the magic out of you as a fuel source?

    Also if it's ENDLESS water it doesn't sound like it'd be very easy to mass produce- baring environmental ramifications.

    You'd just be stealing food essentially.

    That or demons/fey creatures would pop out of it.
    Thats pretty much murphies law with magical portals.
    >> Aggie 11/01/11(Tue)15:49 No.16808896
    Ha ha, I love this thread.

    I want to find a Decanter of Endless Water buried in the ground. It could create an oasis that would slowly be destroyed if it was ever removed.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)15:52 No.16808917

    >Burry Decanter
    >Creates Oasis
    >Decanter Gets smashed by unassuming Oasis visiting animal
    >No more Oasis

    Damn, Fangled artifacts.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)15:57 No.16808936
    >King of Dragon Pass
    >Need barley to make beer
    >Wheat to feed people
    >Cattle for fieldwork, food and social status
    >Nobody cares for pigs and sheep
    >Need to clear more fields and piss off inhabitants of the wilderness
    >Chaos infestations and curses messing with cattle and crops
    >Gods getting pissed and fucking with you
    >Neighbours raiding your ass every other season
    >Other races raiding your ass every solar cycle

    Fuck I hate iron age agriculture in fantasy frontier.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)15:58 No.16808950

    That is acutally a glorious idea for a desert setting.

    >Endless Water has to come from somewhere.

    I think the basic concept behind it is kinda plotinic. What you actually link into is not a place filled with water but the original concept of water that is powered by the original creative force of the universe. Water only comes out because you've created a tangent between it and the world of matter, upon which the original concept becomes tainted enough to congest into material water.
    >> Aggie 11/01/11(Tue)16:03 No.16808972
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    I didn't really think this through. ASSUMING such a wonderful item would be as fragile as a normal object, I guess you'd need to keep it submerged in a box under the ground.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:06 No.16808997

    Alright, lets solve these problems...TOGETHER!

    >King of Dragon Pass
    >Need barley to make beer
    >Wheat to feed people
    >Cattle for fieldwork, food and social status
    >Nobody cares for pigs and sheep
    This is a bit of an issue right here. You're DEFINETLY going to need sheep. And if anything Orcs and other "Evil" peoples LOVE pork.
    >Need to clear more fields and piss off inhabitants of the wilderness
    If it's animal people you could try eating/trapping them: Werewolves, Owlbears, etc are all fair game. People will pay a lot of Money for a Stuffed Deer Minotaur taxedermy or a Werewolf Fur Rug.
    >Chaos infestations and curses messing with cattle and crops
    >Gods getting pissed and fucking with you

    The two problems could both be fixed if you invest a little time and money into the cultural scene. Set out an initative to support Human druids. The'll do a bit of crooked cop druid magic and the'll figure things out as they try to wrestle with the spirit world; HUMAN STYLE.

    >Neighbours raiding your ass every other season
    >Other races raiding your ass every solar cycle

    Start making your unhindered existance profitable then, would be the best way to get shit done.
    Try to start trading with some more powerfull villages or something that would see eye to eye with your species: Orcs, Dwarves, maybe even giants.

    If you've been trapping and eating animal people though I wouldn't suggest trying to bargain with Elves or other animal people.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:08 No.16809013

    Pigs are usually used to stage feasts and sheep's needed to make cloth and clothes, which can be used for gifts, which again is connected to the rites of feasting.

    Plus you don't have to bother with getting'em over the winter, which in turn means that you'll have to eat less of your precious cows.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:09 No.16809018
    Except that's just like your opinion dude, they were amazing games, having people to play them with would be far from a bad thing. Besides that's a very lite approach to farming. Trust me
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:13 No.16809051
    If you're interested this idea:

    Was done in the Animated Movie Princess Arete.

    A wizard who doesn't know how to cook or take care of himself lives up in a tower and in exchange for his abilities he asks a nearby herding village to essentially take care of him.

    It's later found out that the Wizard is using an Enchanted emerald called the "serpents stone" or something and when placed inside a container of water the container pours out water endlessly.

    Arete steals the pitcher and dumps it inside the wizards flying machine, filling it with water. Then the flying machine flys up into the top of the wizards tower and starts pouring water from the flying machine into the tower.

    The tower quickly becomes filled and starts pouring out water from the rim of itself and into the valley.
    The valley quickly turns from a deserted badlands to a swampy sort of muddy pasture.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:15 No.16809071

    And the Wizard was all like:

    LOOK what that LITTLE GIRL did TO MY HOUSE!
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:17 No.16809089
    the single best way is well, laying bait getting it lulled into thinking everything's alright then trapping the fucker. Beyond that traditional smoke outs work where you prevent all but one exit and proceed to light that tunnel network up with fires that burn green wood and make a lot of smoke
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:17 No.16809091

    I remember reading in the Cartoon History of the Universe and hearing about it in Art history class, that during the 15th-maybe 17th century English Monks smuggled Silk worms out of Asia with Mulberry leaves stuffed into their robe Sleaves.

    Just saying; textiles are VERY lucrative.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:21 No.16809125
    silk in particular though actually making textiles is highly tedious and a bit of a pain in the ass without automation.

    The scary thing about a farmer is, they often don't know all the jargon but, rather seem to just fucking intrinsically KNOW what needs to be done. think of the eighty year old farmer who's been doing things since the forties, he may not know abot KNP chemistry but he knows what works.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:25 No.16809141

    Remember the Industrial Revolution in England?

    It was built on textiles. And England exported textiles during the middle age and early modern age already, mostly to Italy. The riches of the Medici were founded on that long-distant trade.

    And that's just the 18th century. Textiles were like small change to the common people before industrial mass-production devaluated the fuck out of them. First thing that was stolen from houses, first thing to be pawned off for money, last thing to be thrown away.

    Having sheep and the means to turn them into clothes means that you're printing money. That's the reason why the greek and romans traditionally praised their wives as being good at weaving.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:26 No.16809149
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    >this thread
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:31 No.16809189

    I remember reading somewhere that traditional farmers in my region had asshole tools that were used to teach their children patience. Some sort of rake used to pull fooder straw from its storage place, I think.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:32 No.16809205
    >This thread
    >No Maoyuu Maou Yuusha

    Shit, the demon lord is resolving the long running human-demon conflict by introducing new crops and farming methods to humans. It's all used as excuse by japs to draw sexy bitches as usual.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:35 No.16809227
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    Dat Maid.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:36 No.16809229

    Yes, sort of. The Decanter is connected to the Elemental Plane of Water, which contains exactly that: the platonic ideal of water, in an infinite quantity. Upon speaking the command word, the Decanter produces water, and can be made to do so as a stream (1 gallon per minute), a fountain (a 5-foot stream at 5 gallons per minute), or a geyser (a 20-foot stream at 30 gallons per minute).

    And yes, the force of the full geyser mode can kill small animals and insects.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:47 No.16809319
    Huh. Then theoretically, couldn't you hook it up to a system that can take this water and "compress" it through superheating (presumably either through MAGIK or STEAMPUNC, as long as the water reaches well above its boiling point at whatever pressure it's at in its vessel) and create a jet of super high-pressure and high-temperature steam?

    Could I use this device to just hose people down so hard they melt?

    In fact, that could be the conflict of the campaign -- a local company wants to use it for weapons development or some kind of dirty industrial setting while the local populace needs it to irrigate their farm and town. It doesn't even have to be explicitly HAPPY TREE vs EVIL INDUSTRY, you could have it just be a question of where you want the region's efforts to be focused economically! (we can say that the big guild that wants the magic jug is into high-tech industry that's fairly clean or something)
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:50 No.16809358

    My only issue with this is wouldn't having it draw out water from another plain mess with the water cycle? You know?

    Adding water to a closed system and what not? But I suppose a fantasy world is far from a "closed" system.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:55 No.16809397
    Exactly. A fun thing that gets brought up when people mention the Parasite Eve series is that Aya/Eve would have to be eating whole horses as snacks to be able to be constantly throwing around fire and lightning just from the energy in their own bodies. Could you imagine the diet any kind of magic user would have? Even if they're just directing "natural" energies in the environment, it'd still take a lot to have that kind of influence over anything.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:56 No.16809402
    lakes oceans and whatnot have small leaks into and from the plane of water, just like fires and volcanos to fire, deep caves to earth and shiny clouds impossibly high up and hearts of hurricanes/thunderstroms do to wind.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:57 No.16809411
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    If you have a constant source of flowing water, you can pretty much kickstart the industrial revolution right away. Granted that you've got access to capital and a market. Remember that it were actually waterwheels that drove the mills of England and steam basically an outlyer that survived because Watts had a really good business model.

    All large medieval and early modern machines were water-powered. So as long as you've got the people who know how to build'em, you can start up your industry anyplace, anytime.

    Of course you'll have to deal with the ecological impact of having ten thousands of litres of water washing over some piece of property.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)16:58 No.16809416
    Given its high starch content, I'd think that banana beer might be a better route to take if you want to get an alcohol from it.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)17:03 No.16809455
    I'd say the humble turnip.
    Or beets, they grow all year, dont give a shit about frost, every part can be used and they come in a million varieties.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)17:07 No.16809469
    the US is corn, rest of the world has cornflakes, tortilla on sundays and rarely put some on pizza.
    Some grow feeding corn but not anything remotely proportional to the american ratio
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)17:08 No.16809476

    Not really. It's magic, more or less. Faith. You change matter by making it touch the holy magical name of water, only that matter is actually not limited in any way in D&D.
    If you'd like to balance it in some way, you could have it eat away some of the surrounding matter, probably air or the container that's holding the intersection.

    If you'd like that to become sort of apocalyptic, imagine that you've got a stable black hole making water if the portal survives the destruction of its container.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)17:11 No.16809506
    Two solutions.

    First, set your millrace up as a perpetual loop, using the Decanter of Endless Water to top off the cisterns that feed it (that way you've got some warning that you need more water beyond the machinery grinding to a halt.

    Second, portable holes.

    And I just had the best idea ever for a dorfish trap: Decanter of Endless Water and Decanter of Endless Magma both linked to the same pressure plate. When the victim steps on it, you get a new obsidian statue.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)17:13 No.16809521
    Furture of cities man.
    Combining city parks with agricentres.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)17:28 No.16809650

    You can't pump water back into the plane of water though and pumping it into random dimension holes means that somebody's going to crawl up'em and complain sooner or later.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)17:45 No.16809781

    I like this explaination.

    Any significant source of the elements also have small naturally accuring portals to their respective planes.

    Large rivers, Ponds, and Oceans would have Water ones.

    Major Forest fires would create ones if big enough. And volcanos would have them as well.

    A long with keeping a healthy balance with the worlds "magma, water, etc." They would spit out the occasional elemental.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)17:46 No.16809790
    As long as the water is being pumped in with higher pressure than exists locally at the other end of the rift, you can in fact pump water into the Plane of Water.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)17:50 No.16809828
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    Thank you so much for introducing me to this manga.

    I've started reading it and I love it.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)17:54 No.16809856

    The Plane of Water basically is the abstract idea of water intersecting with the real world in certain locations, transforming unformed matter into water. It's more aptly described as a geometrical plane intersecting the world as we know it, not a physical place filled with water.

    You don't pump water into it because it does not actually have a volume to be filled in the first place.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)17:55 No.16809873
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    so basically it's the imaginary number plane

    YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR [spoiler]QUATERNION[/spoiler]
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)18:03 No.16809930
    Can't you just pour water into a Decanter for it to go into the plane?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)18:04 No.16809941
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    This also reminds me of another topic: Giants.
    What about Giants, and Ogres/cyclops? They can be anywhere from 15-30ft tall, they must have immense dietry needs?

    I've always seen these guys as having three options: They either make like polythemus and have absolutely humongous tracks of viciously guarded land where they ranch/raise their livestock like cattle, or sheep.
    Live nomadic live styles where they hunt and gather until the environment is literally "eaten" away and they have to move on to give it some breathing room.
    Or they live near the ocean. I could see a Fantasy ocean having a lot of food readily avaiable for a giant: Whales, Whale eaters, Sea monsters and the like. Maybe even enough to support villages of giants that sustain themselves off of fishing.

    I Remember reading thats how the Natives living off the west coast were able to support themselves and build such humongous villages.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)18:11 No.16809979
    Aren't giants typically portrayed to eat fucking TONS, though?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)18:18 No.16810041
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    >giants aren't actually evil
    >giants are just basically just very very large humans who are driven to do evil by their hunger
    >you are fighting humongous impoverished beings who are only fighting you for their equivalent of a sandwich

    I've always liked the images of the giants with live cattle tied to their belts.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)18:22 No.16810063
    And now I'm picturing a baleen giant sifting plankton and krill from the shallows.

    Or a giant devouring vast stands of bamboo and other quick-growing plants.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)18:24 No.16810080
    Don't forget about entomophagy. Scooping up vast handfuls of roasted crickets and eating them like the giant version of a bucket of popcorn chicken.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)18:28 No.16810098
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    I could imagine Giants and Ogres would have amazing recipies for things like: Bamboo, squash, giant insects, and other creatures and plants that grow humongous very quickly.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)19:20 No.16810465
    Just imagine what happens if a giant strikes an untapped vein of treacle or tallow.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)20:49 No.16811344
    alright how the hell does one strike a vein of treacle?
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)21:10 No.16811589

    Tallow is Processed animal fat.

    And Treacle is like sap sugar.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)22:05 No.16812189
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    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)22:22 No.16812380
    It's laid down by fossilized sugar cane, and by really fatty animals that die in antinecrotic surroundings.
    >> Aggie 11/01/11(Tue)22:37 No.16812555
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    I'm so happy with this thread. Thanks for your input, everyone.

    So many quests could come from keeping giants fed. I mean it's in everyone's best interest that they find food without having to resort to throwing their weight around and I'm sure there are some giants out there that aren't completely terrible. Like some that actually help out the people they're kind of extorting.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)23:05 No.16812797
    course there could also be giants that earn their keep too at least.
    >> Oso T. Werebear 11/01/11(Tue)23:08 No.16812822
    i guess this is a proof of concept that shows that you can take the seemingly mundane parts of life and make it interesting.
    >> Anonymous 11/01/11(Tue)23:22 No.16812942
    sadly farming is seen as mundane even thought its a vital and honestly fascinating aspect of life.
    >> Anonymous 11/02/11(Wed)00:46 No.16813664

    Brewing is a General Non-Weapon Proficiency in AD&D 2e. You'd be surprised how many new players go like "YES, I WISH TO BE ABLE TO MAKE BEER".

    Farming is a bit too meh for most players, but by all means do beer sidequests. I'd like to see how they turn out.
    >> Anonymous 11/02/11(Wed)00:53 No.16813732
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    There's probebly a ton of work for a 15-30ft tall human looking for it in an Iron Age fantasy world.
    You're pretty much a Living construction work vehicle that just wants a warm meal, some clothes, and a place to sleep.

    I'm sure there are also giants who do not appreciate being used as living seige weapons as well.
    >> Anonymous 11/02/11(Wed)01:12 No.16813944
    I've seen a player put ranks in brewing only to regret it because making beer takes a long time.
    >> Anonymous 11/02/11(Wed)04:39 No.16815248
    Many years ago there was a fifth giant world bearing elephant but it fell off Atuin back and though some areonautical mishap eneded up plumetting towards the discworlds surface like a Meatior, killing millions, fozillizing sugarcanes and spreading legendary tallow in the ground.
    >> Anonymous 11/02/11(Wed)10:15 No.16816918
    Simple things like planting on north facing slopes improves your crop yield; north facing slopes are cooler and thus hold onto more water.
    >> Anonymous 11/02/11(Wed)13:37 No.16818328
    Bumping because more people should read this thread. Hopefully we can start homebrewing agriculture related stuff in the near future.
    >> Anonymous 11/02/11(Wed)13:57 No.16818455
    If it's homebrew we're talking about, I recommend barley.
    >> Anonymous 11/02/11(Wed)14:13 No.16818549
    You're so funny.

    Anyway, brewing mead is the easiest. All you need is a jug, honey, water, yeast, and time.

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