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  • File : 1314419347.jpg-(818 KB, 1000x727, 1305261737210.jpg)
    818 KB Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)00:29 No.16078790  
    There was a discussion earlier today about D&D + Cellphones & Internet and it got me thinking about a D&D-type fantasy game with a more modern slant that isn't Shadowrun's cyberpunk future + elves and orcs and shit.

    Imagine, modern little towns and suburbs with electricity, running water, even bits of current technology like phones and television, but surrounded by dangerous magic forests and shit full of monsters and beasts that threaten the settlements. This means guards, guilds, hunters, mercenaries and adventurers in general still have a place in this new society. Someone needs to keep the monsters in check, protect the Arcane generators, and clear the trade routes to keep commerce flowing regularly.

    Thoughts, etc?
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)00:33 No.16078831
    Interesting. I like.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)00:38 No.16078871
    I'd play it.

    got more details, OP?
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)00:43 No.16078905
    Sounds cool. You'd need adventurers to go fix the phone lines when a monster smashes them down. No one messes with that techie.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)00:47 No.16078949
    Sounds vaguely Final Fantasy-ish, depending on the game they sometimes have something like that.

    However, I sort of like the idea, and would like to hear more.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)00:49 No.16078967
    Kind of seeing the whole thing as the logical outcome for any fantasy world where wizards aren't all slaughtered on the spot.

    Couple centuries of feudal society augmented by magical innovations would eventually lead to magitech of sorts. Machines augmented by magic, like Cellphone towers that have their signals boosted through enchantments so they can reach far between settlements without having to leave long telephone lines in the dangerous untamed wilderness.

    In this particular setting, the wilds would have to be drastically more resilient than your typical fantasy world. No matter how many monsters are slain, they just eventually pop up again. Trying to clear too far into the wilds is often a dangerous endeavor due to the planet itself seeming to reject and fight back against the further spread of settlements.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)00:58 No.16079063
    I like it better if it isn't magitech, just tech tech in a fantasy world.

    It makes sense that this would occur, based on the assumptions that (a) magic aside, physics function like they do in out world, ie, electricity works, and (b) magic is difficult enough to use that it can't out-compete technology for day-to-day amenities.

    You'd also need a reason for swords and bows to still be useful, an area where they continue to outcompete firearms. I'd give magical beasts some kind of resistance to firearms, using the logic that magic is related to perception, and bullets move to quickly to see, and so magical beasts aren't hurt by them because they don't think they can be hurt by them.

    Or something.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)01:00 No.16079088

    Just give them resistance to anything but a certain metal (Silver, Cold Iron, Plotholeium) but making a bullet out of the stuff means that the metal is more or less gone, while a sword would last generations.
    >> OP 08/27/11(Sat)01:07 No.16079152
    Trying to get my thoughts in order, give me a moment..

    I figure the reason guns haven't taken over completely is because it's still hard to mass produce guns and bullets. On top of that, when the monsters keep coming back sooner or later, it's a waste to put all that effort into casting and producing bullets when a sword or bow could last longer and waste less resources and time.

    I could see certain settlements with access to the proper machines and materials producing and using guns, but most would probably stick to more 'traditional' weapons since you have to have the precision machining equipment to make the various components of a gun, then the bullets, and finally the makings for gunpowder, which amounts to a lot of work.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)01:13 No.16079213
    But if technology advanced as normal, there would be zero reason for guilds and hunters and crap. Over the last 100-300 years everything wild and dangerous would have been exterminated systematically by grand armies. Or even farmers with guns.

    Other intelligent creatures would have their own nations, or would have been conquered and sold for use as slaves. Nowadays they'd be the new minorities.

    Can you imagine elves being the new blacks? There'd be websites dedicated to those with "woodland fever," which would lead to many an ignorance mis-click to the horror of parents everywhere.
    >> OP 08/27/11(Sat)01:23 No.16079290
    Another thing I'd add to this whole mess of an idea would be dungeons.

    Not too far beneath the surface is a tangled network of dungeon tunnels, ever changing and moving. Anything left in the wilds often becomes absorbed into this network of tunnels.

    When it builds up bad enough, an entrance will usually pop up somewhere, acting as a focal point for the wild magic and a place for monsters to more easily pour out into the surface, creating an extra dangerous area for any travelers.

    In standard adventuring fashion, someone would have to delve deep into these newly sprung up dungeons to destroy the core and the monsters that would have to be guarding it.

    I suppose that's why there would have to be the quirk that the wilds seem to have a will of their own and killing monsters doesn't get rid of them permanently.

    A standard fantasy world would eventually rid itself of all ogres, dragons, kobolds and tarrasque type bullshit once advanced enough, like you said.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)01:27 No.16079324
    >You'd also need a reason for swords and bows to still be useful,
    OH oh and make sure that fighters, rogues, mages, paladins, and everyone else is basically the same class too, cause you know balance,.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)01:29 No.16079342
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    >woodland fever
    >> OP 08/27/11(Sat)01:37 No.16079420
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    Well, not making a game here, but if it comes to that, I'll try to maintain class balance.

    If anything, this whole thing could probably be established with a lot of fluff writing, maybe a map or two, in depth description of some of the tech, and a few tables for modified equipment. Higher grade materials metals for armor and weapons, flashlights instead of torches, etc etc.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)01:43 No.16079463
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    Hm, so mages would by default be engineers as well? Build half of it normally, MAGIC the rest.

    I could get behind this.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)01:48 No.16079497
    some good ideas there. magitech is awesome :D
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)01:49 No.16079503
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    Perhaps a component in Magitech attracts monsters, or it's fudging of reality itself can have strange warping effects on the land around it. Leading to stronger, bigger monsters that seem to pop up out of nowhere. And if you want to be a dick DM, make that the huge revelation at the end. Every problem they've faced was of their own design.

    Maybe even have some pocket civilizations that are still stuck in standard fantasy mode due to isolation, etc.
    >> OP 08/27/11(Sat)01:50 No.16079507
    I'm imagining a generator powered by magic tapped from the trees and used to fire off periodic lightning spells inside a contained environment. The electricity is absorbed as direct power and the heat it gives off is used to boil water to turn turbines to create supplemental power.

    Trees that are drained of their latent magic in this fashion can actually be cut down. Normally, trees are so full of wild magic that they often grow thicker and denser the more you try to cut at them.

    The angle I'm trying to work here is that the planet is fucking insane with wild magic.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)01:51 No.16079516
    ah, the perfect blend of SCIENCE! and MAGIC! Sounds like fun.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)01:57 No.16079562

    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)01:58 No.16079567
    I like that idea, inherent MAGIC makes things do things they were supposed to do better. You could say the residual magic is passed down through the food chain, so monsters get to it and become stronger.
    >> OP 08/27/11(Sat)02:07 No.16079644
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    Actually,t he idea of magic being able to be passed down and stored up by natural things lends itself to the whole concept very well.

    Hunters NEED to go on regular patrols to slay monsters, because if they go unchecked, they will start to get bigger, nastier, and even harder to kill.

    Any town without an able group of hunters will get demolished and drawn into the dungeons below.

    If we add in >>16079503 's idea, you can make it a constant struggle for equilibrium. When a settlement gets too large, it starts causing bigger and badder monsters to form and seek out towns to destroy and devour. Meanwhile, the civilization is constantly trying to keep the monsters from getting too big and dangerous.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)02:16 No.16079708
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    Mage Scientists are constantly striving to figure out how not to output so much residual magic so to avoid spawning Gorged Monsters, monsters that have fed on magic for far too long.

    I can see Hunters and Mages having a tense relationship, as the Hunters have to clean up the mess when Mages mess up.
    >> OP 08/27/11(Sat)02:20 No.16079745
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    I think this idea is coming together kind of nicely and I'd love to explore it more, but I need some sleep. I'll check for the thread in the morning and probably take some time to organize my ideas.

    It's shaping up to be a good high fantasy world with random dungeons, plenty of monsters, and lots of interesting societies.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)02:23 No.16079765
    I can dig it.
    >> sage 08/27/11(Sat)02:25 No.16079783
    rolled 8, 34, 83 = 125

    saying that magic would make a animal bigger is illogical, it doesn't make humans bigger does it? There are many more things that magic could do to something besides making them grow larger.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)02:28 No.16079810
    Perhaps the reason the wilds are so wild is because wizards keep throwing the magical equivalent of nukes at each other without restraint. Except replace fallout with sumoned monsters.

    or perhaps the fireball-casting wand is the new gun like in that Darkness Descending series by Harry Turtledove
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)02:28 No.16079813
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    Cope with it, friend.

    Also, read more closely. The Monsters are a part of the wild magic of the world. They are magical beings. Makes perfect sense that they get more powerful when they devour more magic.

    Also, thanks for giving me a reason to use this image.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)02:33 No.16079858
    This could be a plot hook, but I don't think OP was gunning for a territorial Magocracy.

    mite b cool tho
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)02:33 No.16079865
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    >>16078790Imagine, modern little towns and suburbs with electricity, running water, even bits of current technology like phones and television, but surrounded by dangerous magic forests and shit full of monsters and beasts that threaten the settlements. This means guards, guilds, hunters, mercenaries and adventurers in general still have a place in this new society. Someone needs to keep the monsters in check, protect the Arcane generators, and clear the trade routes to keep commerce flowing regularly.

    It's Pokemon.You described the basis of the Pokemon world.
    Pokemon is a fantasy world viewed through the lens of science by humans who have always lived with it.

    In our actual reality, we went from "oh the gods did it" to "LETS EXPLAIN IT WITH SCIENCE!"

    In the pokemon world, they went from "oh the gods make it rain" to "here's how these beings with elemental powers create rain"
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)02:34 No.16079867
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)02:36 No.16079899
    Maybe somewhere there's a mage who can make guns that fire bullets made out of magic?
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)02:37 No.16079903
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    But in Pokemon the animals exist solely to COEXIST with their human overlords, and rarely cause any sort of havoc or trouble except sometimes in the movies. Even then, the trouble is usually FRIENDSHIP'D away. This is more Magitech Monster Hunter, IMO.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)02:49 No.16080005
    That's only because it's 4kids, but if you watch the one movie they had medieval knights and armor on the pokemon and were doing war.

    However the underlying thing is that, if every 10 year old gets a pokemon license. How come only very few adults are shown with any pokemon at all? Also there's Lt. Surge that said electric pokemon saved his life in the war.

    So they're more than just FRIENDSHIP IS MAGICAL, think of them as biomechanical weapons that can and are used to kill & maim.

    My theory is that the original settlers of the pokemon world created the pokemon. They eventually evolved into multiple forms, but same species. Something happens to Earth or they set up shop there without any technology. However eventually lost technology was found and integrated slowly.

    Ever wondered why they turn into energy when caught? Or why they glow when they "evolve". It could be that they're not 100% organic but techno-organic. They breathe, and do all the other stuff however at the very core they're artificial. Which is how they can "evolve", turn into energy...etc.

    Or you could just chalk it up as A WIZARD DID IT!
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)04:38 No.16080823
    I want to play a game like this.

    But it would basically just be d20 modern: With Elves!
    >> OP 08/27/11(Sat)11:10 No.16082882
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    Okay, so, I'm awake again.


    So, Pokemon is actually a fairly good example of what I'm getting at. They've got phones, computers, internet, and other advanced tech, but as soon as you leave the comfy boundaries of the towns, you're being attacked left and right by bizarre creatures.

    Replaces some bits of tech with magic!, makes the creatures even more dangerous and aggressive, and instead of sennding kids out into the wilds to learn the power of friendship and togetherness alone, they get apprenticed to adventurers and hunters to slaughter anything that would threaten their homes.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)11:15 No.16082925
    I'd play it.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)11:16 No.16082943
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    Intelligent monsters band together against their humanoid appressors
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 08/27/11(Sat)11:18 No.16082962
    rolled 3 = 3

    >D20 Modern: With Elves!

    >D20 Modern: Urban Arcana

    Specifically written to do /just/ that. Only problem is, D20 Modern is a horrible base for anything. Guns are underpowered, the magic is so overpowered, it's /pointless/ to use anything but.

    It was the classic folly of having too many people working on too different of things, without any consideration for one another.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)11:19 No.16082976
    Oppressors even.

    Guns vs swords: Many monsters are resistant to non-magic attacks and all ranged weapons require enchanted ammunition not just the gun/bow to be enchanted. A magic sword is reusable, a magic arrow-head is somewhat reusable, a magic bullet isn't.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 08/27/11(Sat)11:20 No.16082989
    rolled 8 = 8

    > a magic bullet isn't.

    But you could make about 200 hundred Magic bullets for the same cost it would take to make that one magical sword.

    Cause..lead's cheap, yo.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)11:31 No.16083085

    >Cause..lead's cheap, yo.

    Yes, but the reagents and time required to enchant those 200 bullets *isn't* cheap.

    200 enchanted bullets will kill 200 monsters, assuming one-shot kills (which isn't likely.)

    A single enchanted sword will kill thousands of monsters over the course of its career.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)11:36 No.16083130
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    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)11:38 No.16083154

    That's because of the magical immunizations. Herp derp.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)11:46 No.16083209
    I say just have guns along with magic swords, bows, etc.

    In some situations you want to fight a certain monster with a magic sword, against other monsters you might want to fill em' full of lead.
    >> OP 08/27/11(Sat)11:50 No.16083237
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    I was thinking about this the other night.

    Fact of the matter is that you're right. You could have an assload of bullets for the materials it would take to make one sword. Even if we want to be fancy and saw that the improvements in technology could allow for more swords to be made more effectively from less metal, you could still have more bullets.

    Only way I could rationalize normal guns and ammo not being used would be due to monsters having hard hides or carapaces, or the diminishing returns of having to reclaim and recycle every bullet you fire. Not every town is going to be sitting atop a bottomless mine of iron and lead, after all.

    However, since we've got magitech to play with, why not Spell Guns? Simple hand held armaments that can be loaded with a mana charged cartridge that allows the wielder to fire off several small spells (or a large ones).

    I remember reading someone's campaign stories here about the game that they gave their players a shipment of wand-guns. Each wand was loaded with a fixed number of certain spells, and the only way to activate them was to load them into a pistol-like device and fire them like a handgun.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:03 No.16083330
    One of my settings has some similar tropes; there are a large amount of naturally-occuring elementally charged minerals that are mined on my world (called elementite, they're essentially places where various elemental planes overlap into the world). Air elementite makes things like airships viable, and also functions into communications; water elementite makes public sewers, recycled water and running water and such possible; lightning imbued from the Air Plane becomes generators, and so on and so forth. Elementite has a certain lifespan, so it is a valuable commodity. Intelligent monster races like illithids or goblins will use it as well, though their reasons range from the same as the so-called 'Enlightened' Races (which is what my things like Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Eladrin, etc. call themselves in the setting) to use in weapons (fire elementite makes awesome explosives for industrious goblins).

    I still have fantasy races though, and cities aren't QUITE 'skyscraper and pavement' modern, but it's more than 'mud thatched huts and mud streets filled with plague-ridden vermin'.

    It works well in theory; I haven't gotten to run it yet, but the prospective players think it's a cool alteration to the bog standard fantasy setting.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:16 No.16083442
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    >Spell Guns
    You mean Caster Guns.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:19 No.16083472
    i love the idea of this setting, i would play it in a heartbeat.

    i can see guns having a use, stopping power against beasts with thick hides/magic resistant foes, i would honestly just see it as an alternative to a bow or Xbow.

    its weird but the pokemon analogy really sealed it, the idea of having small somewhat self sufficient towns separated by thick forests with only a few access roads through the wilderness seems like a fun setting to play in, even if you were a courier or a guardsman.
    >> OP 08/27/11(Sat)12:32 No.16083595
    Off to work in a few, but before I go.. Name?
    I may be presumptuous in assuming that this may become a full blown project of some kind, but at the very least, I plan on using it with my group and perhaps developing it further into a usable campaign setting.

    Cellphones & Casters?
    Dungeonpunk, perhaps?
    I'm open to suggestions.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:33 No.16083608
    Purely tech, nonmagical power armor, with magically enchanted melee weapons.

    Because ammunition is too heavy for the quantity and quality of enemies and the size of the area (even magically enhanced power cells for energy weapons are limited to fixed defensive guns), so axes/spears/swords/clubs/warhammers are more economical - and because of power armor, all the more effective.

    Naturally, guns still exists, are used and are very effective, but their used is limited to fixed defenses and the occasional hunter/sniper/support gunner, and because of rarity are potentially also very expensive.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:34 No.16083612
    Dungeons & Derringers?

    ...Nope, don't think so.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:35 No.16083621
    Anything with "punk" in it is a worse name than "Super Kawaii Desu Adventure Mix Pyon".
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:38 No.16083654
    Does it cost the same to enchant 1 bullet as it does 1 sword?

    Or is it more like 100 bullets can be enchanted for the same cost as one enchanted sword?

    D&D treats 50 arrows/bolts as one magic weapon in that regard but what's your view?

    Unless magic bullets can be produced in large quantities cheaply then guns are great for monsters without resistance to non-magic attacks but for those with protections that can only be beaten by magic then swords are cheaper in the long run.
    >> sage 08/27/11(Sat)12:40 No.16083685
    I imagine that to be somewhat like post-apocalypse, since apparently large nation-states etc. don't exist. I think the break-out of magic would explain better why the technologies exist, as opposed to the little villages just developed like that. Thoughts?
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:44 No.16083720
    I say we go with "Super Kawaii Desu Adventure Mix Pyon" just for the hell of it.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:44 No.16083724
    I see magic as the reason the world would still have that "idyllic" feel to it, allowing for advanced science without advanced culture. Magitech sounds great in theory, and it's fun to rule of cool it, but wouldn't a Mass Dispell Magic just fuck everyone over, and be a lot easier to accomplish than a massive EMP? Your boosted cell-tower would now be useless, for example. And depending on how magic works in your setting, there would be very few people out there able to restore the enchantments.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:45 No.16083727
    Some wizards and scientists tried to combine magic and technology directly, instead of simply having everything powered by either or as a combination, with disastrous results.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:46 No.16083742
    I agree. I'd reckon it's better than punk anything.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:47 No.16083744
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    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:48 No.16083752
    A good way to handle things without "magic bullets killing everything" is to have it that bullets being so small, are hard to draw magic onto, meaning things like swords and armour, large areas of exposed metal, are easy to drawn magic onto and in theory easier to enchant.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:48 No.16083753

    My new game will be called Anythingpunk, I think. And that's just what it will be.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:51 No.16083771
    I think you can combine this with the Elder Scrolls to make it a bit more believable with the monsters. Isn't it the their world is actually on a ring of Oblivion, so that's why they have magic and monsters running about?

    You can combine it with the randomly appearing underworld/dungeons that can lead to monsters. So big cities, while having a higher rate of monster appearances, have guilds and stuff to protect them. Smaller villages attract fewer monsters, but have less people who are qualified to dungeon dive and succeed.
    >> OP 08/27/11(Sat)12:54 No.16083792
    Come on now, Cyberpunk isn't a dirty word, but I suppose you're right. It does sound silly.

    You got me thinking about the reasoning behind all of this and I think I've got it. Magical pollution.
    Too many spells cast over the centuries. Too many magic items. Too many wizards and mages and sorcerers just being careless with the way they threw around magic.

    This caused a rapid development of new technologies and innovations, while simultaneously causing the world to grow more unstable. The Wilds starts to grow larger and spread their borders with forests popping up seemingly over night, bringing new and more dangerous monsters with it.

    And around the time that this would be played in, a lot of those technologies had been perfected in the powerful capital cities and spread outward across the land to try and reclaim the world from the wilds and the chaos that engulfs the planet.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:55 No.16083801
    reminds me of final fantasy 10, civilization went crazy on technological progression and wiped themselves out, now only small towns remain, they avoid most machines and use magic instead.

    though that had a huge steampunk influence.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:57 No.16083805
    Op I've actually been kicking around this general idea for a couple of weeks. I'm looking forward to reading all the ideas accumulated in this thread after work. Thanks for being awesome /tg/.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)12:58 No.16083812
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    Sounds like Pokemon.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)13:00 No.16083826
    Now it's adventure time. sort of...
    >> OP 08/27/11(Sat)13:05 No.16083867
    Pokemon with swords and guns and magic.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)13:08 No.16083892
    "Cyberpunk" is a thing. "Something-or-other-punk" is just unimaginative and bad naming that wholly ignores the meaning of the word "punk". Besides, "Cyberpunk" is a genre which incorporates potentially an endless number of settings, official and homebrew, while a single setting is not.
    >> Magus O'Grady 08/27/11(Sat)13:16 No.16083930
    There was a quest on /tg/ a few months ago that was basically that. The main character was a tech-wizard, providing tech support for Magi-tech devices like vacuum cleaners and telephones. Everything else about the setting was like 1950'd americana. Small houses, picket fences, racism (the quest's main conflict point was that the main character was married to a centaur and had a little girl with her), etc. Might want to check the archives for it, had some interesting setting ideas.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)13:22 No.16083956
    Pokemon did have guns and swords and the like, especially in generation/season 1, but it was edited out in western releases of the games and cartoon.

    Ugh.... my subconscious /vp/oreon is trying to break free... I thought i slew that inner demon months ago...
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)13:28 No.16083994
    Lets not forget that bullets work by deforming the entire thing on impact, ruining all forms of enchantment on it.
    If anything, the reason you would still use bow and arrows is because you can make them large pieces of enchanted metal that does not break on use.

    I would say that automatic assault rifles makes sense, but they are never going to be properly enchanted beyond the weapon itself.
    Another problem is that monsters do not die from infections or minor wounds in this setting. You need to properly dismember them in order to kill them, and that disqualifies guns a lot.
    It also disqualifies arrows, but arrows can be enchanted to overcome that.
    So basically your rangers are eiter using portable rocket launchers, high caliber sniper rifles, or bow and arrow(and crossbow).
    >> Concerning: The Forest Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)13:44 No.16084111
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    Even a kindergarten child knows of the ambient levels of magic in the world, as well as the presence of real walking talking gods, but being aware of their implications is a different story.

    As you are aware, our world is primarily covered by wilderness. Forests, plains, deserts, and swamps to be brief. Endeavors to spread out too far from certain locations is usually met with grim failure. Elementary children are currently taught the food chain theory. Plants absorb ambient magic from their environment to grow. Herbivores eat these plants and gain their magic. Carnivores eat these animals in turn, and so the magic is passed through the food chain till the last dies and releases their magic during decomposition. Magic makes this grow.. and large quantities makes it grow faster. The wildlife in centers of magic can be fearsome indeed. A wise settler knows to build far from them and not cut too far towards it.

    The truth is a bit more complex, naturally. While magic does tend to pass through the food chain, the effect on animals is generally overstated for simplification. Any fool knows gods exist, but the nature deities tend to get ignored by civilized folk. Even the 'high elves' give little thought to them. Their wild cousins and druids are their primary worshipers. The most friendly to civilization we worship solely as a god of the harvest, forgetting that she too favors the propagation of all life. Not just beings.

    It is not unknown for these deities to.. encourage settlements that build too far into remembering to respect the bounds allowed them. The nature deities do not take kindly to any one creature growing wildly beyond their own need.
    >> Concerning: The Forest Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)13:51 No.16084158
    Beyond this, the forests are not barren of sentient life. Overly evolved beasts sometimes show keen awareness for the approach of man. There are many unconfirmed cases of forest animals organizing against what must be seen as an invasion of their home.

    Beyond these rare instances, entire societies can call the forest their home. At the time of writing this reference, the Druids of the Cycle have just concluded forming a treaty. Sometimes expanding means moving on to owned lands. Easily seen as an act of war.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)13:55 No.16084187
    Sounds fine so far. Do continue.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)13:59 No.16084226
    Why is everyone so keen on making sure guns aren't a viable alternative to swords in a modern setting?
    >> Concerning: Archetecture Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)14:09 No.16084292
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    If you, dear reader, love to keep up with the latest news of other lands as much as I do, you will have heard of certain powerful nations drawing plans for towers made of naught but glass and steel. Yet the notion of such a thing is not a new idea.

    There are those that decry old methods of building, but our world is not one of willful ignorance of advancement. Settlements attempting advanced structures are rich in one thing most of us are poor in. Manpower. Methods of 'mass production' (for more on this, please refer to the chapter on Industry) are not unknown, but circumstances prevent their implementation. Production of vast amounts of machinery for building requires sufficient facilities to produce them. Complex projects, as such, require simple manpower to replace what machines could do efficiently. Yet the size of most settlements, which was covered in a previous chapter, is not overly large.

    It is simple practicality that keeps us to more simple methods of production and easier to work materials. Which itself lends to a certain aesthetic. If you, dear reader, wish for such luxury, you could save up and move to a larger settlement. Though sufficiently sized cities tend to have their own brand of vicious problems most prefer to avoid.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)14:19 No.16084367
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    I like you.
    >> Concerning: Industry Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)14:22 No.16084387
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    Mass production is a phrase unknown to most people I meet.

    Very simply, it is the theory that a great deal of goods could be produced quickly an efficiently if one were to alter how they went about it. This involves the use of dedicated facilities towards producing specific goods. Additionally, one would use an "assembly line" to spread out the world load over several people. Rather that one man putting together your ice box or television, you have several men each dedicated to building only one part of the machine. Each doing the work in turn. A vast amount of, previously complex, goods could be turned out cheaply and easily. A family will, typically, have one television per home at most. Imagine if even families on the tightest of budgets could afford to put a television in each room!

    The prospect is indeed an exciting one.

    I can personally attest that this theory is sound, but several issues arise when attempting to implement it. The first, most obvious issue, is space. Few settlements can afford to grow far. Where are these vast facilities supposed to go? We are no dwarves that can simply tunnel into the earth when we run out of room and be content. Nor are we as adept at digging, but that is another issue entirely. The next issue one runs into is manpower. These facilities need people to man them. People need space to live. Yet there is little space and not enough people.

    The facilities need space to produce. Then you need people to man these facilities. Which need yet more space to live. Then you must provide for these people so they may do more than simply sit and starve in a shack. Which takes more production facilities, more people to run them, and more space for both.

    A terribly vicious cycle. A part of me sometimes wonders if the current way of things isn't for the best. Would the cycle ever end? Would beings stop expanding? Perhaps best not thought of.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)14:23 No.16084398
    With machinery and technology, Gremlins would be a major issue for cities to deal with as well.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)14:29 No.16084444
    Oh god it's beautiful! I feel so glad that I apparently made some kind of positive contribution, because after I had posted I read more of the thread and felt like my thoughts did not fit in, which made me sad.

    I love the whole idea and the idyllic and magical look of wild nature reminds me of some animes I have seen. Which in turn reminds me of a thread with pictures of "anime looking landscapes" which I originally thought was a weird description but now I kind of see what it means... and it is awesome in a dreamy childhood magic way.
    >> Concerning: Industry Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)14:34 No.16084490
    The basis of our current industry has not changed overly much in countless generations. As you well know, goods are produced by a few talented specialists. One being, and perhaps a few helpers, concentrating on one good at a time. Yet what many do not know is our world is not completely without innovation!

    Magic flows freely in our world, and there are plenty dedicated to using it in ways you experience every day. The text you read right now was widely produced partly in thanks to magically transcribing what I have written on to a machine which prints the words freely as much as is needed.. or for however much paper and ink is available. Do remember to pay respects to your local library.

    Magic eases the burden of production in every way imaginable and unimaginable. Certain materials we enjoy cannot be produced without the aid of magic. Materials which inhabit your ice box and your television and radio and so many other things. Even mundane metals commonly use magic to speed the refining processes. Farmers enjoy bumper crops to feed many people, preserving what space we have. You might be living in a location that was once dedicated farmland. It is possible to produce these things without magic.. but such things require proper facilities. Which need space and manpower. Both a premium.

    Luxury goods are more rare than many of us would like, but recent years have seen them become vastly more affordable.
    >> Gods, Deities, and DemiGods. Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)14:35 No.16084496
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    Gods are a capricious and dangerous lot, I tell ye'. Beings made of pure ambient magic, they're born from the environment around them. As such, one rarely sees a God unless they venture out far, far into The Wilds. Some say that if you see a God being born, you'll go mad. I wouldn't put much stock into that theory though.

    Anywho, most Gods are content ruling over their "dominions". They sit around all day, and have some semblance of control over growth in that area. And they all have this obsession for life in all forms and the balance of nature, yadda yadda yadda. Gods seem to serve a natural equalizer, preventing the growth of any one species from suffocating the others.

    As a result, most human settlements tend to get "warnings" when they've grown too large, cut down too many trees, etc. It's a real hassle but it's not impossible to kill a God. How do you think Cities have survived for so long? They've gained the ire of whole pantheons, and walk a dangerous tightrope.
    >> Concerning: Arms Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)14:48 No.16084600
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    I myself enjoy the luxury of a firearm. Most notably a hand gun, but as a rune mage I could simply not bypass the utility of inscribing the runes on the ammunition. I also lacked the patience to properly master archery. A gun is certainly easier to learn and gain remarkable proficiency with. Nor does it require muscle power to use more fearsome varieties of bows.

    Gods forbid I ever willingly stand next to someone that wishes to skewer me with their blade either.

    So why then, if guns are so superior, is it still common practice to teach one's children the fundamentals of archery and melee?

    A, properly working, firearm is actually quite a skilled work. I stopped in to see my own commission being produced one day. A sword may have more poems written about it, but a gun is no less difficult to produce. Perhaps even more so. Beyond this, there is one factor that stops wide spread use of guns. Gunpowder is not overly laborious to produce. Metal for bullets is easily procured. What truly holds back the humble firearm is the firing cap.
    >> The Hunters Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)14:48 No.16084603
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    It takes a lot to pick up a sword and sit on the edge of civilization, watching.

    Hunters is a term used to denote people who specialize in protecting human settlements from magically enriched monsters. Sometimes young men are required a year or two of service, but in many places I've seen them rely totally on volunteers.

    Hunters are the few kinds of people that can navigate the ever-changing Wilds. Settlements often assign the "honor" of scouting out lands, seeking out other settlements, and gathering exotic resources. But Hunters don't mind, they know the stakes. They know what could happen.

    Pay is pretty good, too.
    >> Mages, the ones who caused this mess. Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)14:59 No.16084696
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    Mages, strange lot. No settlement would last a day without them. Yet, they're the first to take the heat when something goes wrong.

    History books tell us about days long gone by, days where humans had plenty of breathing room. No 100ft trees, no homocidal lizardmen, etc. But those were ancient times, without the luxuries of firearms, radios, iceboxes. They had their own sets of problems for sure. Then mages came along, and fixed up society. Engineers at heart, they let magic fill in the cracks of their inventions. Hell, everyone was a mage back then. Kids could fling fireballs at each other all day. It's sad really, that they hadn't realized what they were heading towards.

    The Theory of Magical Ambience, basis of modern magical theory. States that Magic exists all around us, in a very pure form. At that stage only plants can harness it, using it to grow better. And I'm sure all of you are familiar with the Food Chain Theory, taught to most kids nowadays. But, our ancestors didn't know any of this..
    >> teka 08/27/11(Sat)15:02 No.16084712
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    >> Concerning: Arms Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:03 No.16084724
    Previously, firearms used flint to ignite their powder, but the nature of such a weapon is one of notorious unreliability. The powder, left exposed, is also useless in wet conditions. These, along with the precision needed in crafting an accurate firearm that doesn't blow up, was enough of a hindrance to keep the firearm from taking over.

    The more recent innovation of the firing cap was a promising one. It creates enough of a spark from simply being hit to ignite the powder. This has saved loading times as well as internalizing the ignition mechanism to protect the powder.

    However, the cap itself utilizes a chemical that can only be produced in a factory.. or through purely magical means. Namely alchemy. Caps are rare and expensive. The only flint igniting arms are now antiques, and the expense has seen bows regain popularity once more. Strangely, the firearm saw it's most popular period in what was also it's most unreliable incarnation. Bows have seen a revival, and military leaders are once again innovating tactics for close range combat now that the gun has lost it's spot as golden boy.

    As a bit of trivia, certain experts express current supplies of gunpowder only remain plentiful, and thus cheaper, because the gun never saw total adoption. Full scale use would require more powder than has ever been produced. Yet no one knows where all this powder would come from.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:11 No.16084800
    Humans, get their magical abilities from their diet. Unlike most beasts, we can harness it and do crazy things. But we have a tendency to be careless where all that residual magic from our spells ends up. Our Mages back in the day, they leaked magic like a shattered bottle. At first, the effects weren't noticeable. But over time, the usage of all those spells, the creation of all those items, left a mark. I'm no scientists, so this may be a little off.

    The residual magic from all our industry began to seep into the environments around us, getting into the food chain. Trees got bigger. Monsters got meaner. But we were too busy building to notice. It happened fast, but not in a flash. Not fast enough for us to be ignorant of our own folly. The Forests wouldn't stop growing, our axes couldn't chop up down anymore. The Monsters got bigger, and started fighting us back. Empires were torn asunder, and left to slowly bleed out.

    Eventually we got back on our feet, started enchanting our weapons better. Started being more economical with our spells. But by then, all that was were villages, city-states, and The Wilds.
    >> Concerning: Arms Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:12 No.16084806
    Things being as they are, many have come forward saying the bow was still the superior weapon in the first place. Bows have always kept pace in puncturing power for armor, and a good shot can kill a grown man all the same. The widespread, if short lived, adoption of firearms concerned training. A bowman requires strong arms and years of practice. Even a child can become a reasonably good shot in a week with a gun.

    Yet the bow has sufficient power as a weapon as well as possessing a fare better rate of fire. An equal force of bows and firearms will see the men wielding firearms overwhelmed in short order. A gun simply cannot be reloaded quickly enough.

    And so the humble gun will remain a footnote in history. Though an interesting one. Though hopefully the novelty will be strong enough for them to persist.

    I still need to buy caps to fire my inscribed bullets with.
    >> Concerning: A Final Word Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:19 No.16084854
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    I do hope this text was at least somewhat enlightening as an introduction to our wonderful and wild world. I have spent many years traveling and seeing and learning many things. Things I desire to share with everyone. Knowledge is a precious thing.

    Please look forward to my expanded series, reader, if my publisher sees fit to give me more installments. I will be going into more depth on these topics and many more besides.

    Make sure to pick up my next book if it ever reaches stores. The glamorous world of Hollow Wood, their celebrities, and how they get your favorite day time dramas to your television set!
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:19 No.16084856
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    A possibility is to assume that firearms (in their current form at least) were never developed in this setting as gunpowder was never required. Blast mining could have been a task for magic users, which allows for the large scale extraction of resources without the need for high power chemical explosives.

    Owing to this, perhaps development of the bow and crossbow continued, much as it has in our world, as people began to utilise new materials such as carbon fibre, as well as creating compound bows and crossbows such as the one pictured.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:20 No.16084862
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    Nowadays, mages aren't the shoot-fireballs-at-a-rock-all-day type. They mostly aid in the production of goods, sit around inventing things, or research the Theory of Magical Ambience and things of the like.

    Eggheads, most of them. Useful eggheads, though. Thing is, those deemed trustworthy enough by their settlement to start experimenting and tinkering can sometimes go off the deep end. No, they don't go insane. They sometimes forget the magical guidelines, and let a little too much magic spill here and there. The results can be annyoing at least, and disastrous at the worst. Whole settlements have gone under, if their mages got a bit too excited.

    And who has to clean up the mess when things go under? Hunters. As it stands, the relationship between the groups can be tense. Too bad, when the two have to work together to repair a cell tower.
    >> Concerning: Fat-Thighed Whores 08/27/11(Sat)15:25 No.16084909
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    Hope you guys enjoyed that CONCERNING series.

    Hope it gives some nice ideas on how a world like this would persist in it's strangely advanced yet limited nature. I always liked the idea of a setting with modern conveniences that didn't just totally evolve into the glitzy modern cities of Eberron. Where much of the world is still dangerous and uninhabited and things don't look that advanced on the surface.

    Somehow the modern sleekness just kills the feeling of fantasy and adventure.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:30 No.16084949
    >Where much of the world is still dangerous and uninhabited and things don't look that advanced on the surface.
    >Amazon rainforest
    >New Guinea
    >Atacama Desert
    >Inner Mongolia

    Perhaps it could be like our world in that while there are developed nations, there are also areas of wilderness, only the level of danger is somewhat greater. Instead of posionous arachnids and face mauling mammals, there would be your more typical fantasy evils.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:33 No.16084984
    ...Except population centers are big and advanced enough TO NEVER LEAVE. You don't get the kind of roaming adventurers and danger just outside the city walls wanted for this thread. They also have huge production facilities that would be counter to the feel of the setting.

    The point is justifying progressing tech in a setting that still requires adventurers as well as still using bows and swords.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:36 No.16085006
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    Really, I don't see the need to make firearms "rarE" by some artificial means. A lot of enemies out there would be melee-focused and try to close range.

    This means gun-using adventurers either need let go of the gun (letting a sling keep it on them) and pull a melee weapon to defend themselves, or utilize an solid, sturdy weapon that can double as a spear when a bayonet is mounted to it.

    So basically you'd have more "modern" firearms styled after our assault rifles being used as openers or vs. ranged monsters, with old style battle rifles pulling double duty as a ranged weapon/opener and as a spear.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:37 No.16085014
    Mages and Gods dude here, I know I enjoyed it. I kept checking back to make sure you hadn't beaten me to topic.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:40 No.16085028
    Actually, I based my justification in entirely real world facts.

    The firing caps our arms use? They might be one unit with the bullet now(rather than separate like they used to be), but they still exist all the same. It is a specific chemical needed so they fire by percussive force. Which is only easily produced in modern times because of the whole industrial revolution thing.

    To put it another way, if there was ever a Fallout game type scenario where factories are no longer churning out shit, guns will eventually become useless. You can produce gunpowder in your own home if you are determined, but the chemical the cap needs is.. particular.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:41 No.16085039

    I'm getting a Princess Mononoke vibe from your guns. Big heavy rifles that are powerful, yet slow and hard to make in excess.

    I can dig it.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:45 No.16085073
    >A bowman requires strong arms and years of practice. Even a child can become a reasonably good shot in a week with a gun.

    It's funny, because the reason the long bow was so popular with the British is that it took very little time and training to get longbowmen combat ready. Less than a day of training, and physically fit men and women are skilled enough to perform fairly accurate volleys. (Which is all bows were used for anyway. There were no bow snipers.)

    I know this is a thread for fantasy, but I just wanted to throw that out there, because I find it interesting.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:45 No.16085080

    Resource prospecting and defending remote industrial facilities and their workforces.

    Scientific pursuits and baby sitting Einstein McBiologist as he attempts to search for a legendary plant which allegedly cures X,Y and Z.

    Magical pursuits and following a group of new age wizards trying to make a name for themselves by recovering the lore of a lost civilisation.

    Exploration and colonisation, European style. Founding towns and dealing with problems in the locality and wider area.

    Assisting in the route finding of a new road/railway, until things start going wrong 'The Ghost And The Darkness' style.

    I'm just brainstorming possible campaign ideas. As for justifying weapons; >>16084856
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:46 No.16085081
    Heh, I was just trying to justify the existence of the status quo. So no fear of that.

    Oh also, flint firing guns existed along side bows and swords for quite a while.

    So if you stick with flint striking guns, it's not an issue simply to say bows and melee haven't been phased out yet due to the problems inherent in primitive guns. If you progress up to cap firing guns, it's still cool. The chemical needed is hard to make. I got it covered either way.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:49 No.16085106

    >Less than a day of training

    No. They trained from childhood. There was even a law with declared the only sport that could be practised on Sundays was archery. All males age 10 and up had to train with their longbow. The reason the English finally lost the hundred years war is because the French manage to systematically destroy the English and Welsh bowmen. They took too long to train and the English lost their battle advantages.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)15:50 No.16085114
    Things tend to get progressed enough that the world is sufficiently tamed to not need adventurers. It's still an issue. It sounds like you want a completely modern world. Just with magic and swords.

    That.. was never the goal of this thread. I believe the kind of setting you want even already exists.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)16:06 No.16085227
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    I wasn't commenting on your way, actually. I was more focused on the "monsters are resistant to bullets/weapons need to be enchanted so boolets need to be enchanted/there's too many" arguments. The last of which I think is bullshit because it means bowmen would be useless too.

    Yours is a pretty well-grounded reasoning for the rarity. And frankly I think it works well with "firearms as openers" because you might only have a few bullets so you open up with a load of them and then draw your weapon/go spear mode and reload after the fight, saving the rest for the opening of the next encounter(s).
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)16:14 No.16085264
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    Just a thought, but what if we had a really OLD city-state? Like, the former capital of a great empire that fell to the "Magocolypse" that managed to survive to present day. I could imagine it's inhabitants wanting to restore the empire, focusing on building up a military to fight back the forests. But, this causes the area around the city to be a huge warzone. The city is managing to gain some ground, but only after many casualties. Thus, it's very hard to get in or out, and the city has become very self-sufficient and secular.

    It's become almost mythical, as people speculate what will happen if the city fights back the forests around them. Will they head for us next? What kind of weapons do you think they have? I hear they're all 8 feet tall!
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)16:21 No.16085324
    A bullet from a gun moves at a speed larger than the speed of sound. It gets heavly deformed when its hit a target, and is too small to be found after use.

    A arrow on the other hand is larger(meaning it can be enchanted more), fired at a speed which it does not deform by default, and it is large enough to be tracked down after being shot.

    Look at it this way: You got arrows that cause holes in your target due magic, and bullets that do the same.
    After useage you need to get back the ammunition. While you can carry less arrows, they are easier to retrive, and add on a enchantment that allows them to repair themselves, i think it will on a 10-20 year scale be a lot more useful than a gun.
    >> Magus O'Grady 08/27/11(Sat)16:22 No.16085335
    Easiest way to say 'can't enchant bullets' is because bullets warp when they're fired. If all enchantments require precise runes, then the runes are ruined when the shot is fired. If it requires being annointed or coated with enchanted oils to maintain its power, the heat and friction of firing would burn it all off. Arrowheads, on the other hand, are flat (good to carve a rune into), don't warp when fired, and don't undergo intense heat stress when fired.

    Has nothing to do with the number of things being enchanted, it's just that the physics of one type of projectile make it impossible to enchant.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)16:23 No.16085342

    It's not enough that there be roads: Travellers must be relatively safe along them to allow what commerce we have.
    Sadly, magically protected ones tend to - for lack of a better word - leak. They attract "attention" from the Forest. So most roads are maintained loosely, by roaming nomad "crews" - often closer to gangs - hired to clean up and repair. Periodically, larger cities will even send small strike forces, well-armed, to lure in and slay anything especially dangerous that might be lurking once travellers start coming up missing..
    SOP is for a couple mages to sling an attention-getting spell, then hunker down and pray you have enough actual firepower to drop whatever Beast is lurking.

    Spending the night off-road is never recommended. Scattered along the road, the seasoned traveller will find small, fortified monasteries or walled and defended inns. Prices are high, and you're expected to contribute at least some service from your guards when you stay the night. Nonetheless, the Havens do a brisk business, and a Haven guard is one of the highest-paying professions in which a merc can be expected to survive to retirement

    A voyager along a well-maintained road will see little of the Wild's horror. Havens are only a few hour's travel apart. Many are known for regional specialties; some even advertise in the cites as vacation spots for the "daring" among the City-dwellers.
    Wild roads are another story entirely. Tall grass and trees - any potentially concealing a threat to life and limb - interrupt the road's progress. Havens are few, and usually self-sufficent, maintained as much through sheer bloody-minded determination and luck as others are through subsidy and merchandising. Independent Haven owners are usually people who never got on too well with civilization, and they can conceal secrets darker than the Wilds..
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)16:35 No.16085411
    i can see the similarities to pokemon at first glance, but this is also reminding me of FF: crystal chronicles, and i'm loving every second of it.

    spellguns seem cool if INCREDIBLY expensive, and it could limit someone's ammo supply via spells per day, etc.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)16:45 No.16085484
    One last bump until OP returns.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)16:51 No.16085519
    Among Merchants, caravans and convoys are the order of the day. A strapping young lad or lass with a heart for adventure can almost always find work as a Caravan guard, but it's not an easy job.
    A standard merchant company's "run" through a dozen towns can take months, and those that lose a handful or less of men can consider themselves lucky indeed. If that lad or lass returns "home", they'll be a battle-scarred veteran - or pulled out of the iceboxes in the back of the caravan, if the Trailmaster's a sentimental sort.

    Every haven's walls have a few notches near the guardposts. Short messages, commemerations for friends who never saw the luxury of a grave. Little prayers, little hopes carved into the wood in defiance of the Wild wrath all around. There's casual obscenity and insults, of course, there's soldiers..
    Many years ago, a friend of mine started to catalog the graffiti along the Old West Road to Dayglow (it's about two month's travel south, if you manage to hit a caravan heading south right when yours gets in).
    Sensitive guy, wound up getting too involved with what he was reading. Traced the style of one poor girl - she had some flourish or other - as she survived attack after attack. Said she made it through two Dayglow runs over the course of five years, was on her last one and got jacked by a two-story bear on the way home with her retirement funds. Found her memorial 3 Havens out from her home city. And there were hundreds of stories just like hers.

    Guy got so guilty after that, he refused to travel. Last I even heard from him was when he sent his MS back out here; he says the Mail comes in with too much blood on the stamp. Wanted me to publish it, wanted people to hear about what their cushy lives in the towns were being funded by.. so I did what I could. You're holding the result.

    --Foreword, "Graven: love, life, and Death on the Road", by Jaeger Tomlinsson.
    >> Excerpt from an old Bestiary. Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)17:28 No.16085801
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    Snake Knights: Fearsome creatures indeed. Folk believe they to have spawned from magically engorged snakes, thus their namesake. The average beast can be around 30ft long, and a 5-8 feet thick. Although, dangerous exceptions have been shown.

    The beasts are stealthy, cunning hunters. Usually they will only resort to using their limbs when attacked, and most often can be seen sliding on their bellies like snakes. They pose a problem for many Hunters, their natural hides seem to be a crude parody of our own armor. Adults have be known to be magically resistant, so it's imperative to kill a Snake Knight while it's young and tender.

    What gets most recruits, are the tongues. Long, tentacle-like, and laced with a sort of paralysis agent. When close enough, a Snake-Knight will rapidly attempt to envelope it's prey in it's numerous tongues. (Fun Fact, male Snake Knights have fewer tongues) and swallow it's prey whole before slinking back into the dark cover of The Wilds.

    To kill a Snake Knight, a large team is advised. Diversionary agents will hold the beast's attention, while others chop at the naked legs. Once without legs, the beast will try and slink away. This can be allowed, as the beast will most likely bleed out. But for the more daring, you can try prying off it's scales with a spear or sword and get underneath the skin.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)17:43 No.16085920
    I'm aware of all of that. But it still only takes less than a day of training for someone to get good enough to know what they're doing.

    Basically, the fact that everybody in Britain trained from childhood means they were fucking scary good at it.
    >> Excerpt from an old Bestiary. Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)17:44 No.16085925
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    Ash Crabs: Titantic, Crustacean and Insectoid, 4-6 limbs for mobility, 2 atrophied limbs that assist in getting dead food to the beast's mouth.


    It's a miracle we have information on Ash Crabs at all! Few settlements or daring travelers live to tell the tale of their encounters with one. Our artist's interpretation is still not entirely accurate.

    What we know is of their black, ash-like carapaces that can withstand the extreme heats that are found in only the deepest deserts or volcanoes. As such, these beasts are normally found roaming those areas. Luckily, they are not predatory. The desert variant enjoys to burrow underneath the sands, and devour hidden deposits of pure rock. The volcanic species enjoys nibbling on the igneous rock surrounding their habitat. As such, it is rare for a settlement to have to deal with them.

    Records detail them as using their limbs to try and stomp on aggressors with surprising speed. Even worse, though, are tales of the beasts using molten projectiles. The insides of it are a mystery, but we believe it to have an insane body temperature that allows it to break down it's rocky diet, as a result the Ash Spider can use it's own bile to burn victims to death. Once again, AVOID AT ALL COSTS.

    No recorded killings, as of yet.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)17:53 No.16085991
    so there would be huge as hell, heavily armed caravans transporting good and people to the cities? and would there be cities reclaimed by the wild and magic almost like a magic version of S.T.A.L.K.E.R.?
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)17:56 No.16086016
    That's pretty much the exact universe in FF7
    >> Excerpt from an old Bestiary. Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)17:57 No.16086021
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    Smogsters: A race of nonhostile (surprisingly), sapient, bearded individuals. They lack any form of society, preferring to travel The Wilds alone in a nomadic fashion.

    Smogsters got their name from their affinity for tobacco. You can tell their a Smogster in an area if the overpowering smell of a pipe is present. They are a curious people, who live off of foraging. The few, more open ones have told us they enjoy a diet of primarily mushrooms and the occasional berry. When told that most mushrooms are highly poisonous to humans, the Smogsters replied, "You just haven't learned how to eat 'em right!"

    This attitude towards humans, treating us as ignorant savages, is common. They often remark that humans haven't "gotten the hint by now" and how we should "stop fussin' and take off our shoes for once". A traveler is lucky to meet a Smogster, as they will often allow the human to travel with them for a time if they give the Smogster a refilling for his/her pipe.

    It is unclear what is under a Smogsters impressive facial hair, and numerous urban myths have cropped up. We caution any of those curious to not try and sneek a peak while a Smogster is sleeping. They are VERY light sleepers.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)17:59 No.16086035
    >You can tell their a Smogster in an area...

    Godammit. *There's, I mean.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)18:05 No.16086083
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    ITT: Someone wants tolkien-based RP in a setting with cell phones and TVs, but NOGUNS.
    OP, you're silly. What happened when guns first came around? We invented plate armor.
    What would happen in a fantasy setting?
    Armor would get better. When weapons get better, armor gets better, and we adopt the new weapons.
    It's fine to let go of melee weapons. This doesn't have to be D&D. It can still be fantasy without swords and shit. In old pulp fiction, we saw fantasy settings with guns, swords and everything in between, and they didn't have to be flintlocks. They had god damn ray guns too.
    Not everything needs an in-universe explanation. This isn't science fiction. Why does John use a sword when guns are available?
    Because he can. Because he's good with it. He's got good armor that's bulletproof too, so he's not afraid.
    God damn, I use this reaction image too many times.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)19:25 No.16086790
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    Bullets can be fired swifter, you can carry more into a fight, and a gun can double as a melee weapon (see: pic-related's massive bayonet). A bow carries significantly less ammunition, less range, and cannot defeat heavy armor without immense draw strength and being within stabbing range. The bow is also worthless as a melee weapon.

    It's a series of trade-offs. The gun's more "expensive" to keep fed, but it's much more effective when it can be used. The arrows are (potentially) reuseable, but you have the trade off that you will run out of ammo in the short term swifter and you have no means of quickly swapping to melee (as you can't very well use a bow as a melee weapon, nor can you make much of a sling so you can't just drop it and trust that to retain the weapon).

    It all depends on the sensibilities of the adventurer in question: do I want something expensive but effective, or do I want something reasonably effective, cheap, and reuseable but without the added effectiveness of the more expensive solution?


    That goes back to the "arbitrary bullshit" thing I mentioned. It's using magical metaphysics to bump out guns instead of something more sensible like how difficult it is to keep a weapon fed and the resulting expenses.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)19:31 No.16086834
    I agree with the notion that using MAGIC to downgrade guns is silly. We've already got enough of that to explain the whole setting. Just make producing guns harder, since it's pure chance you'll settle on land with the perfect ingredients to start popping out rifles and who wants to risk their neck carrying back tons of sulfur when they can just cut a tree and make a bow?

    Then again, it's probably hard to do even THAT. But you get my point.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)19:31 No.16086835

    A Metaphysical reason is a good as a physical one, as in-universe they are a concrete as each other. And nothing says both can't apply.

    It's a bitch to keep it fed but it hits harder than a bow against people. The issue though is that people are rarely an issue compared to monsters and people would rather something that can be enchanted for when shit hits the fan.

    Guns never really went anywhere because the threat they deal with well isn't that bit a threat.

    You might see some more automation of non-gun things though. A modern repeater balistae with mechanical draw and loading. That will stop an ogre in it's tracks fast.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)20:15 No.16087227
    How about magical railguns/coil guns? Use magic to accelerate the bullets.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)20:19 No.16087256
    I had to work with that assumption once. The solution: The only metal that's really viable for making firearms from has the annoying tendency to catch fire whenever you subject it to an explosion. This had the interesting side-effect that explosive arrows would be the weapon of choice in most cases...
    >> Excerpt from an old Bestiary. Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)20:24 No.16087289
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    Balburns: A highly territorial, magically gorged frog-like species.

    Balburns are ambushers at heart. Using powerful limbs, they can lift themselves to canopy level either through climbing or sheer jumping ability. They lie in wait near the tops of trees, until an unsuspecting victim walks by. They rocket themselves to earth, bouncing themselves off the tree and crashing on their prey. Their impact-resistant skeletons do them wonders here, and their bones are a much sought after material for those who frequent The Wild.

    The curious thing is, Balburns actually have very poor vision. They utilize their tongues to "taste" the minute disturbances in ambient magic, disturbances caused by an animal (or human) strolling by. Since animals cannot absorb raw ambient magic, they sort of push it around them when they move. The Balburn notices this, and can pinpoint sources of movement.

    But what's even stranger, is a Balburn's fixation with children. When it spots a child, it enters a sort of trance-like state, staring at the child for hours. Following it home, even. The trance is broken when the child meets the Balburn's eyes, causing the beast to quickly vanish into the foliage around it.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)20:25 No.16087294

    Afro samurai is like this. They're in like rural japan but they still got like boomboxes and cellphones and shit.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)20:30 No.16087337
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    Except "resources are hard to find" has basis in reality because we only have such ease of use in using firearms due to massive interconnection and industrialization. We don't have dragons eating convoys passing between cities.

    Magic doesn't exist and so can do whatever you want. If you say "doesn't work with guns" for whatever reason it's basically saying "I don't want guns" because there's nothing stopping you from saying it does work with them.

    >catch fire

    But.. it's metal. Metal *melts* not burns..


    >The only metal that's really viable for making firearms from

    Did iron and steel not exist in this setting?
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)20:40 No.16087424
    Well for example, the Akali metals are pyrophoric. they have to be kept under mineral oil or they'll rapidly oxidize.
    Add to that a combination of a phase change under moderate temperatures resulting in something similar to the tin disease and you've got a metal that, when subjected to the stress and temperature of an explosion, pulverizes and then catches fire. In other words, you can fire that gun a few times and then it turns into a ball of fire.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)20:43 No.16087462
    Also, if you want to see metal burn, grind some iron to a fine power, then spread it above a candle flame. It should catch fire and give you a sparkle effect. The same technique is used to make hand-held sparkle sticks and to create the sparkles in firework. Though you typically need to pulverize metal for it to work, hence the phase change and pulverization when subjected to higher temperatures.

    On a side note, the metal does still melt when heated far enough, but you need to cool it very gradually or you end up with the brittle stuff.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)20:55 No.16087568
    Apparently, you've never thrown aluminum cans into a bonfire.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)20:57 No.16087580

    Magnesium would like a word with you.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)21:06 No.16087654
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    To be honest, this entire setting sounds like Monster Hunter With Magic.

    And I'm loving every second of it.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)21:28 No.16087865
    Time for an archive?
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)21:54 No.16088152
    I archived it hours ago.

    "Sonny, the problem with guns is, they punch as hard back at you as they kick whatever's in front of the barrel. Way they work is, they take that massive kick and put it into a little tiny point, kinda like an axe.
    Thing is, you gotta balance out the size.."
    ..The old Merc paused for a puff, sucking down half of the sharp-smelling cig.
    "Hmph. Right. Problem is, you gotta get through whatever someone's wearing. Small, hard slugs? Punch right through steel and most carapaces, but there's a tradeoff.
    First off, he's probably got magic up. Gettin' the sigils and shit on a bullet plain takes space: most mages these days carve the sigils on a little strip of paper or foil, roll'er up and stick it inside the bullet when it's a-casting. but then you gotta fit on an anti-fire charm, and that can mess with the bullet, so they use this crazy "aluminum" stuff. Gotta witch it outa the ground with lightning. Tougher than shit for the weight, but it crumbles easy. Anyway, y'got another problem"
    He stopped for a moment, the contemplative mood abruptly broken by a racking cough and a ball of spittle the size of the younger man's fist.
    "See, y'gotta make a big enough hole t'stop whatever new beastie y'wanna see dead.. And that means a bigger round or a softer slug, and botha them do kind poor-like against good armor. Makes putting the charms on a good bit easier - but the bigger the slug, the harder she's gotta kick back at ya to kick the baddies just as hard."
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)22:07 No.16088268
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    This is all classic stuff /tg/ has discussed before. It's good too.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)22:09 No.16088289
    The old man unslung his gun. It was a lumpy, unlovely chunk of iron, unpolished, with a big heavy barrel and a rough stock
    "This here's what they call a Culverin. Weird word, but whatever. Means she's a fucking hand cannon. No range, but she throws a 3-inch chunk of whatever metal I shove in her right through what I point her at. Can load her up with small-shot, too. I've loaded a small fortune of spells and metal - one time, we had to roll a war-party of some kinda walkin' shadow. once we figured out their weaknesses, we just loaded up the guns. Trouble was, 'twas gold. Wound up blowing 2 damn months of pay on them fuckers, but it was worth it watching 'em bleed after what they done to the rest of us."
    He reslung the Culverin, and looked off into the canopy that was slowly advancing towards the Haven's walls. The younger of the pair saw the same faint flash of hate that had ended their conversations in the past, and left his mentor to the legion of shades that weighed his head.

    There were wayfarers to guard, and the Road ahead. He'd sleep now, before sundown. Tonight would probably be bad - the crusty old bastard always seemed to get sentimental right before the Wild threw the worst at them - and he was determined to be ready for whatever that heartless bitch had up her sleeve.
    >> OP 08/27/11(Sat)22:26 No.16088443
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    Ho-Lee SHIT.
    Well done, you guys! I'm truly in awe of the zeal put forth into this passing idea of mine. I didn't expect the thread to still be active after this long.. Just what I needed after a long shift.

    You two. Superb work. I support it all.

    Monster log, I love it.

    You, stop being silly. I never said no guns. Guns are allowed, but there should be a reason why this isn't D&D with AK-47s and I think the firing cat explanation is the best excuse.

    Guns are certainly allowed and I see no reason for an adventurer to rely on a firearm if they have the access to and means to keep one loaded and ready, but not everyone or everywhere will be able to do that.

    I've always loved Monster Hunter and I'm loving what's coming of this.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)22:32 No.16088515
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    We got yo' back, nigga.
    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)22:43 No.16088615
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    >this isn't D&D with AK-47s

    Hey, guns are cool too.
    >> A muddied journal, found stapled to a tree. Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)22:44 No.16088628
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    Day 12: This is utterly stupid. The party has been traveling northwards from the town for days, and I haven't seen any "God". Just bigger and nastier monsters. It's ridiculous, is what it is. There's no point to it, we're just was [A splash of water has rendered the rest unreadable.]

    Day 20: The swamp is getting almost impossible to trek through. I've seen some fast growing vegetation, but this stuff is.. It's stronger. And that's saying something. Cut off a vine, a replacement grows within a minute. And then snakes will be all over you, like the forest was fighting you back. We've already lost 5 good Hunters. 5 Hunters that could still be protecting the cities walls instead of trying to kill a myth.

    [A large splatter of mud covers a swath of the Journal. As if the owner was writing in it, and quickly had to run for it.]...ddamn monster. An abomination! I've never seen anything like it! It moved so quickly, and nothing seemed to harm it. It had some goddamn pet, lost 8 guys to that monster. Whenever we tried to flank it, or run away, shit started growing up and blocking our path! Worse part of it was, that thing yelling and screaming at us the whole time. Talking about balance, how we were like spoiled children. Creeped the hell out of me. And that eye of i[Another splotch of mud]

    [Small speckles of blood]

    >> Anonymous 08/27/11(Sat)23:00 No.16088812
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    Nature Is A Bitch: The RPG
    >> Kender Rights Activist 08/27/11(Sat)23:14 No.16088981
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    I will see your setting and raise game mechanics. Not my work, but I think this GITP thread might offer some useful tricks and bits of information.
    >> ChrowX !!eo4aiy7L/b7 08/28/11(Sun)00:47 No.16090004
    OP here, picking up a trip because it seems like the thing to do. Also, if anyone was loking to contact me outside of /tg/, you can find me on gmail and AIM under the same handle (minus the tripcode of course)

    I intended to write up a summary of the ideas we compiled in this thread, but my brain just isn't cooperating. I'll have some time tomorrow morning to sit down and get something done, so let's see if this thread will survive another night.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)00:55 No.16090077
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    I wouldn't doubt it.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)01:02 No.16090150
    Shall we save the thread?
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)01:12 No.16090239
    Already on suptg, bro.
    >> [Mnky][M1] Pvt. Armitage !!b5IxBuu9REZ 08/28/11(Sun)01:26 No.16090348
    Y'know, balancing firearms without precluding the use of all other forms of armament isn't all that hard, if you think about it. All it really takes is cost, and maintenance, which affects reliability. Here they are, listed from lowest maintenance, lowest cost, to highest maintenance, highest cost.

    Matchlock: The most primitive form of firearms. Typically no more than a metal tube with a tiny hole near the breach for manually igniting the powder. Highly cheap and reliable, but matches are prone to going out when you don't want them to. They can also be somewhat awkward to use. Manually lighting a matchlock has nearly 100% reliability, but it is easy for matches to go out, get wet, or water to get into the flashhole.

    Flintlock: Easily the most common form firearms, due to its mix of reliability and speed. Powder is ignited by a spring loaded lever dragging a piece of flint across an iron slab, sparks are created that light powder set into a pan, that leads into the main charge in the barrel. About 70% reliable, as sparks may not ignite the charge, or water could seep into the closed flash-pan during travel.

    Caplocks: Only slightly more complex than a flintlock, but much more costly to fire. A cap is placed on a nipple over the barrel, when the hammer strikes the cap, it creates a small explosion, which lights the powder in the barrel. These are 90% reliable and have very little room for malfunction, but caps are hard to come by, and are expensive. Caplock guns can easily be manufactured to fire multiple shots by means of a revolving cylinder or a sliding pan, but this increases the chance of water and other things contaminating further shots.

    To be continued
    >> [Mnky][M1] Pvt. Armitage !!b5IxBuu9REZ 08/28/11(Sun)01:36 No.16090433
    Needlefire: The first fully contained cartridges. A needlefire cartridge is a paper tube containing powder and a ball, with a blasting cap in the center. A needle punctures the cartridge, igniting the cap. These can be reloaded very quickly, and have the same high-reliability as caplocks. However, the needles will break fairly quickly, and the number of moving parts means it must be kept highly maintained to avoid malfunction. Needlefire cartridges, being made of paper, are also prone to fouling

    Metal Cartridge: The peak of firearm technology. Each round contains all the components necessary to fire a shot. These are extremely reliable, but also very expensive to maintain, and take constant maintenance. Most who can afford one of these still stick to simple single or double barrel shotguns, bolt action rifles, and revolvers due to the devilishly high cost of ammunition. There are those who have created self-loading arms, capable of firing and reloading at an astronomical rate but no adventurer could ever hope to afford and upkeep such a thing

    >> [Mnky][M1] Pvt. Armitage !!b5IxBuu9REZ 08/28/11(Sun)01:37 No.16090450

    Let's say 100$ gets you:
    100 shots worth of matches or flints, powder, balls
    50 shots of caps, powder, balls
    25 Needlefire cartridges
    10 Metal Cartridges

    Maintenance would be required X amounts per day, and every weapon is prone to environmental fouling to different degrees, which effects its reliability to shoot (Which could be rolled on a d100 every shot, or something). More advanced guns could reload quicker, but would therefore soak up tons of money. Simpler firearms would be more hardy, being simpler in construction, and could handle bigger boolets and loads.

    In short, firearms are big, slow, costly, and take lots and lots of money. They are also loud, which isn't a huge boon when you're trying to keep a low profile on the trail. But they are much more powerful and better at piercing armor than bows, and travel to their target instantly. This combined would make most people prefer a traditional melee or ranged weapon, but firearms specialists would still play as much a roll as anyone else.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)01:50 No.16090543
    >Disregard intense faggotry
    >Acquire awesome /tg/ project.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)01:53 No.16090570
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    This ferocious forest reminds me of Midworld. I bet you could get a lot of good ideas for your setting from it.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)01:58 No.16090610
    I've been following this thread since its birth, and I've got a slightly-related question.

    There's been a good many posts likening the concept to various JRPGs. Are there any decent systems that would capture that JRPG feel? I mean, 3.5's swell and all, but if it'd be possible to run this more easily...

    inb4 BESM. No.

    >sketsNo busy
    >> Excerpt from an old Bestiary. Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)02:10 No.16090722
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    >East Coaster here, passing the time until my power inevitably runs out.

    K'trons: A somewhat intelligent race of lizard people who inhabit the rainforest regions of The Wilds.

    Much is known about the K'ton, though not due to thoughtful research. K'ton are notoriously aggressive against settlements, and are very commonly seen around them.

    What they lack in physical prowess, they make up for in reproduction rate and cunning. A K'ton has reached maturity within 10 months, and can reproduce 3 times a year, gestation lasting only a month. Each batch containing up to 6 eggs. It is recommended forages be made to find nesting grounds if even one K'ton is seen in the area.

    K'ton society, however crude it may be, is quite organized. All villages revolve around the nesting grounds, which act as the center. Females are on duty at all times, guarding the eggs and nurturing young. One Alpha K'ton exists, only he can physically mate. All other "male" K'ton lack any reproduction parts and exist solely to hunt and scavenge.

    Alpha K'ton are no bigger than others, but far more aggressive and intelligent. Hunters have seen older K'ton villages be led by a Shaman Alpha K'ton worshiping a god of bones. Due to this, it is not uncommon to see K'ton wearing the bones of long dead animals. We believe they practice a form of animism, believing the skulls to hold all the power in a being. K'ton are often seen decapitating and dragging the heads of their enemies away after battle.

    In recent years, some K'ton seem to have gained an awareness of ambient magic. Reports of K'ton Mages are skyrocketing. And with mages, comes access to technology. No doubt, settlements will have to keep an eye on the K'ton species from now on.

    Our recommendation for slaying one? A good sword will do the job fine.
    >> Excerpt from an old Bestiary. Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)02:15 No.16090784
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    Gods: No, we don't mean the kind up in the sky. These are those born from the excess magic of a particular environment.

    Gods come in many form, so this Bestiary cannot give you a proper strategy for taking one on. What may work against one may not work against the rest. Rest at ease though, encounters are very rare unless you live in a sprawling city.

    Just remember: Never engage them on their birthplace.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)02:31 No.16090901
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    You want want to know about those traitorous bastards? Those tree-fuckers!? Listen, kid.

    You don't talk about druids. Got it? Now scr- Why? For the love of..

    Because it takes a low, down scumbag to drop everything they own, leave everyone they once knew behind, and streak naked into The Wilds. I should know, my father was one. Now go on, get!

    And as far as I'm concerned, kid, there ain't no "Druid Congregations"! Just a bunch of madmen in huts!
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)02:33 No.16090915
    Hey, is anyone in this thread part of a group/knows a group that plays Eberron with RP tools or something? I can't play in real life due to living in the south where people don't even know what D&D is. And I don't know how to play so I need someone to teach me the ropes.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)03:22 No.16091343
    keeping this alive, i would play it in a heartbeat.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)03:29 No.16091409
    I traveled across the ways, caravan to caravan mate, but honest to all that's beyond magic, some days I wonder just where we're headed.

    We fight against the wild, and all that is there, but we never really do stop to think, what is out there, past what we know? The past tells us that there were actually seas, nay, other lands beyond them. And yet there is only one known sea. A sea of death and being of suicide to simply attempt to cross, lest the kraken drag you down.

    But what of other lands, do they have people liken to us? Are they plagued by these problems too, be it their, or worse our fault for causing them? Or are they free and living in peace... perhaps magicless peace, but none the less. Are these folks even the same as us, or are they different, perhaps purple, or impish in stature or even...

    ...nay, I best stop before I go off again... Darith just says I'm thinkin' too much of what that writing way out in the bumkins was saying... he's prolly right. At this rate I'll be joining those nutcases in the wild.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)03:36 No.16091494
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    Can we get a link to the archived thread?
    >> [Mnky][M1] Pvt. Armitage !!b5IxBuu9REZ 08/28/11(Sun)03:39 No.16091525
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)03:49 No.16091636
    great concept but it seems like the various races are really segregated, like people could spend their entire life without seeing a dwarf or elf or something.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)04:07 No.16091826
    I feel like this is actually a good thing. This sort of setting could actually see dwarves and elves as creatures born from the magical apocalypse that keeps the Wilds constantly growing and fighting back. They were more humanoid creatures that are sort of sociable with humans. They don't want to straight-up murder them, anyway.

    Dwarves are stocky, sapient beings made completely out of mountain stones. Their beards are made out of lichen that wriggles around with a life of its own. Elves are made of supple wood, like classical dryads. Like dwarves, their hair is made of moss, but lighter and less dry; more graceful than that of the dwarves.
    >> Library Lass 08/28/11(Sun)04:20 No.16091957
    So how would they become adventurers?
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)04:27 No.16091998
    that works really well for the setting actually. but i was more thinking in the terms of >>16091957 from an adventuring standpoint.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)04:42 No.16092099
    Well, they would still be partially integrated in society, just like in your standard fantasy RPG fare. They would just be vastly less common than humans and have different origins. Their affinity to nature might actually make a larger percentage of their population more keen on being adventurers, since it lets them discover more about their roots in the Wilds.
    >> Library Lass 08/28/11(Sun)05:49 No.16092593
    Seems reasonable.
    >> ChrowX !!eo4aiy7L/b7 08/28/11(Sun)09:36 No.16093703
    Good morning, all.


    Surprisingly, we never really got around to this subject, did we? I wouldn't really be keen on replacing Dwarves with piles of rocks.

    Before the era of the Wilds, I would have imagined many of the humanoid and enlightened civilized races to have still mingled and interacted with each other regularly since there was still travel, adventuring, and trade before the world went nuts.

    As society got more advanced and more civilized, some of these racial barriers would break down. Perhaps Dwarves were the only ones living in the mountain cities at first, but when certain valuable jobs open in their city or when they need a team of Elven engineers to help them, it become a little less unheard of for mix-race cities that aren't as stubbornly segregated as they used to be.

    Fast-forward to the current era where a lot of cities got separated from each other by larges stretches of monster infested wilderness and those cities would still be a good mix of all sorts of races with half-breeds being a great deal more common than they ever were in the old days.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)11:46 No.16094821
    With all those half-breeds people wouldn't even acknowledge them as a different race, just shorter/lankier people.

    Or maybe use >>16091826's description and explain that those races had all fallen to the Wilds or surrendered when their cities had become overrun.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)12:07 No.16095001
    Just a thought. Instead of radios, what about sympathetic scrolls?

    Like, there's matched pairs. You write on one, and the writing appears on it's counterpart. Or something.
    >> ChrowX !!eo4aiy7L/b7 08/28/11(Sun)12:24 No.16095145
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    That actually raises another interesting point about the level of technology.

    There are two ways to approach this and each offers a different kind of flavor.

    The first approach is to take magic and apply it in modern ways. Refrigerators are large boxes with ice and chill spells enchanted inside. Televisions are boxes that can scrye to certain locations where the shows are performed. Lightbulbs are magically enchanted pieces of glass that can be charge with light spells. Cellphones are just target telepathy spells over long ranges.

    All of that is sort of like the highest of high fantasy in approach. It's all magic, but it's used is less mystical and esoteric ways, with less hoodoo and mysticism.

    The other approach is magitech, where the machines and devices are actually machines in devices but they have been augmented by magic power sources for greater and more potent effects and applications. You kind of get the same thing, but playing it out as actual technology also opens the way for less parchment and faerie dust and more iron and circuits.

    This approach also makes things like cellphones and an arcane version of the internet seem less out of place, but also makes things a little bit more silly, as you'd have adventurers posting Facebook-style status updates about their monster kills, complete with duckface self-taken photos of them posing over the corpses.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)12:37 No.16095281
    Can you even imagine it would be to have a house like that next to yours?
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)12:41 No.16095318

    If the gunpowder explosions are still a risk, why not use magical alternatives to drive the bullets?

    1. A magical compressed-air rifle? You don't use gunpowder anymore but use magic to compress air and shoot the bullet forward.

    2. A magical railgun where you use magic to compress the energy needed to move the bullet at high speeds?
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)12:45 No.16095355
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    Or even worse,

    Arcane style /tg/ with Hunters coming up with a setting set in a magicless world with the same technology as them.

    But here's the thing when we get to internet and cellphones, they don't have to be exact carbon copies of our own. We don't have to fluff out Android phones with texting. They could be sort of bulky little boxes that pump put magic when used, and therefore should be used in emergencies only. The internet could be less pornography filled, and smaller. With mostly news sites and some chat applications, etc. It'd be hard to expand it without increasing the using of magic exponentially. Perhaps only cities could afford to have their citizens each own a computer. I think it'd be cool if in smaller villages, you have to whole town hunkering over one little ancient desktop computer, watching some Kid chat with his brother who moved to a nearby City-state.
    >> ChrowX !!eo4aiy7L/b7 08/28/11(Sun)12:47 No.16095373
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    Off to work again. Keep the thread alive, if you can, but don't worry if it slips away. We've got it archived and I've got it backed up.

    While I'm gone, why not discuss the dungeons?

    The wilds are fearsome on their own, but what if you add concentrated hot spots of wild magic that take the form of large underground ruins cobbled together from the devoured remains of failed settlements and the cities of old?

    They shift and change on their own, making them dangerous to explore unprepared, but deep within you're likely to find salvageable tech, lost weaponry from fallen Hunters, and riches and valuables from the nations of old. The only thing you have to watch out for is all of the monsters that are naturally attracted by the dense mana that surrounds these randomly appearing labyrinths.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)12:47 No.16095378
    >Using Magic to fire more Magic, with a little bit of Magic on the side.

    You just want monsters to swarm your village, don't you?
    >> Library Lass 08/28/11(Sun)13:16 No.16095605
    Personally I'm in favor of a slightly lower tech level. Early 50s. Most people have a fridge and a radio, but a TV is something the average man doesn't usually have.

    Of course I've always had a weird thing about the 50s, especially in relation to quasi-post apocalyptic settings.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)13:26 No.16095689
    Nonono. Not enchanted bullets or bullets made of compressed magic. Just the an enchantment or something to drive an object to high enough speed.
    >> Dungeons: An Introductory Guide Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)13:38 No.16095779
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    How can any Hunter become rich and famous like me?

    Plunder a dungeon, fool!

    Nowhere else will you find the wealth of whole nations, conveniently stockpiled into a cavernous expanse. Nowhere else will you find ungodly mammoths gorged on raw magic, just ripe for the slaying (and you getting a cool song about your exploits)!

    But, I digress. You are a but small, insignificant grunt. You have not yet grasped the complexity of The World Below. And you probably never will, ha! Unless, you keep on reading and buy more of my guides!

    Anyways, how does this occur? Well, imagine a slaughtered village. They were attack by Dangerous Species #657 and all killed. Now, humans have this special relationship with the Magic around us. We tend to have a lot of it in us, absorbing both through our diets and being the only non-plant race to be able to siphon some of the raw stuff (albeit unconsciously and very inefficiently). So when a large group of us dies in the same area, things get... wonky.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)13:39 No.16095791
    i could see naturally occurring magical hotspots condensing and dispersing over time throughout the wilds, drawing creatures towards the magic heavy areas. along with static residual magic around lost and ruined settlements, left from when the mages were reckless. The natural aspects of the wilds would be unpredictable while the ruins remain static, giving adventurers a rough target for exploring/salvaging. though traveling through the wilderness is an adventure in itself, with so much variability a section of forest you crossed last month may have been quiet, but now it is teeming with life attracted by the source of magic in the area.

    Making it to some rumored ruins would be great, if you can make it that far.
    >> Dungeons: An Introductory Guide Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)13:52 No.16095892
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    The egghead Mages got this theory of theirs... Usually after a settlement falls, an earthquake shows up not to soon after. It swallows up the whole dang place. Monsters, bodies, buildings, everything. It all goes skyrocketing down. Nobody's sure what happens next, that little pocket of magical ruins disappears for a while. Mages guess that the pockets seek each other out, forming large twisting passageways connecting them all. Until the whole place has got a magical pressure so high it'd make your head explode. Then, the earth just gives way. BOOM! The Dungeon blows a hole out into the world above to get rid of some of that magic. And there you have it, an entrance for folks like us! And a lair for some of the meanest monsters the wild can throw at you.

    You see, being underground and squished like that changes the ambient magic. It stops being only accessible to plants. Monsters who call the dank passageways their home can start absorbing it. And damn, do they get big. Big enough to start digging, looking for more pockets.

    It's a dangerous life, being a dungeoneer, but a profitable one. Also, be aware. When all that magic is gone, either through ventilation or monster absorption... The place stops being very sturdy.

    Makes you wonder, if a big enough monster could survive that. A beast that absorbed an entire dead civilization, hidden beneath the rocks. Gives me chills.
    >> teka 08/28/11(Sun)18:33 No.16098522
    >BOOM! The Dungeon blows a hole out into the world above to get rid of some of that magic.

    I see watchtowers spread thin along a long mountain path and overlooking a massive valley. Every tower with a small crew of groundskeepers and guards to hack back the clearing and keep away the beasts.

    They are not here to protect the road, they are here solely for the glassed-in observation post on the highest level, where rotating teams of watchers keep an eye out for the arcane gout of energy boiling out of a Dungeon opening in the valley below.

    Once a burst is spotted the notations are carefully checked against a master-grid that was laid down generations ago, then a) entered into onto a bit of Levenworth's Self-Syncing Parchment Communication Method or b) sent away by runner back to town to be added to the Watcher Guild List.

    Prospective dungeoneers buy up these exclusive locations, paying a hefty fee And a percentage of any take. Sometimes they try to start their own little network of watchtowers, but these always seem to.. end poorly. Totally a coincidence, of course.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)19:19 No.16099075
    Oh god, I can see them using extensive contracts that are filled with total legalese to confuse the murderhobos that are dungeoneers.

    The ultimate enemy.
    >> Library Lass 08/28/11(Sun)19:39 No.16099264
    Seems like just a little too much infrastructure.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)19:40 No.16099265
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    What is this I don't even.

    /tg/ I am impressed. Nay, beyond impressed. I am ejaculatory. I need paper towels, asap.

    I am going to use this for when either my Savage Tide AP game runs out, as a fast forward "eventual fallout from killing the Demon Prince right as he was knee deep in a planet spanning chaos ritual" thing, or as the natural conclusion from my Dinosaur Apocalypse game where butt-pained druids tricked a few chronomancers into turning their druid circles into "fishing lines" to pull dinosaurs from the past into the present, to destroy civilization in all its forms with a dino-army.

    To contribute, while I do like the Monster-Hunter thing going on with this, but should we really lock in that sort of "more magic = stronger = bigger" paradigm? Would it be good to have some critters get "denser" instead of bigger? Example:

    Rockdogs: Vaguely canine in shape and size, ranging from large hound to small pony. Despite their relative small frame compared to most monsters, Rockdogs are considered Alpha level threats, as their jagged, stony hides deflect almost all known projectiles, snap off blades and spearheads caught in the spikes, and can even wear through stone walls if the Rockdog is given time to rub against them. Wooden walls are rarely strong enough to slow one down, as their physical strength is monstrous. As they have a habit of crumbling into a chalk like powder that is more explosive than gunpowder, killing them can be profitable, as long as their remains are clear of any sources of spark or open flame.

    So, always "stronger = bigger", "stronger = usually bigger", or the nasty "stronger = who knows, pray it isn't stronger than you"?
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)19:57 No.16099452
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    It's safe to assume, that pouring MAGIC on something will cause it to become harder to kill. Whether that means it got bigger, faster, smarter, etc is up to whatever species it is.

    Here for example, >>16087289 would probably become faster climbers.

    In addition to that, you could add a note that not all members of a species react to the magic the same. Some with a slightly higher affinity to it can mutate horribly. The Balburn I mentioned could grow exponentially instead, or gain camouflage.
    >> ChrowX !!eo4aiy7L/b7 08/28/11(Sun)20:21 No.16099763
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    I have returned from the land of spells and fairies!!

    I've got no complaints against Magic doing other things to wildlife and monsters. It works better and creates a more interesting world if you can't tell just how powerful or dangerous a creature is by gauging its size.

    Large creatures are dangerous, sure, but you should be more afraid of the small creatures that appear to be thriving amongst the town devouring monstrosities.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)20:25 No.16099826
    I've said this earlier, but Gremlins. Little monsters that like to do nothing more than screw around with machines.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)20:56 No.16100159
    quick question, but couldn't the ambient magic in cities produce gods too? Though actually, if we go by the "people absorb magic, then release a shit ton when they die" then what about graveyards? Shouldn't you have graveyard gods and weird shit going on with burial sites?
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)20:58 No.16100179
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    What if.....gremlins.....are PEOPLE!

    Seriously. We've addressed that pouring MAGIC on critters causes them to grow/warp/mutate/walk the dinosaur. Usually through the Food Chain, but also implied their may be more to it than that.

    So why are people immune? Do MAGICd up people run off into the woods and become druids? Does technology, even as it draws the attention of monsters, provide a sort of buffer against the effects of MAGIC?

    It could be something nobody knows, or only the veterans suspect but don't want to cause a panic. What if being a long-term monster-hunter, all those days sleeping in the Wilds, eating the berries and plants, starts working on you. What if after too long, JOHN YOU ARE THE MONSTERS.

    People with a strong reliance on tech might become gremlins, still fascinated by it but due to the magic in them inherently damaging to it. A horrible love-hate relationship. And if they transform out in the wilderness, where no one sees, they could come back to even their own towns and no one would realize its actually Jim Bearfucker who dissapeared a month ago thats fouling up the millworks.
    >> teka 08/28/11(Sun)21:20 No.16100400
    could be.
    >> ChrowX !!eo4aiy7L/b7 08/28/11(Sun)21:23 No.16100442
    I think the jury is still out on the Gods, though I'd say they would probably have to be something more than just the biggest baddest monsters.

    Perhaps they could be ancient entities or wayward spirits, but they certainly fall outside the definition of monsters. Too smart, too powerful, even for something that could have been feasting on Mana for centuries.

    As for the graveyard idea, well.. Most people don't get to die in peace, in the confines of their own home. Death often happens out in the Wilds, where retrieving the corpse of a friend or family member from this fate is a stroke of luck most won't even get once in their lives.

    This doesn't mean it can't happen, but I imagine folks would be aware of the latent mana inside a fresh corpse and be smart enough to tap and drain the mana from any gravesite to avoid attracting or spawning any monsters.
    (If you refer to an earlier post >>16079507 where I brought up the idea of tapping mana from the wilds, this seems like a reasonable fix for this sort of problem)

    Hmm... This is a very good question.. Perhaps it is because humans and the other enlightened species have the will and the desire to fight back the Wilds. They are not "in tune" with the corrupting nature of the Wilds and the ambient mana..

    But this may also mean that human could fall prey to it.. However, this is starting to sound kind of like 40k and the Warp..

    Maybe civilization has also set up a means to ward off the will of the Wilds to keep themselves sapient and sentient.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)21:56 No.16100795
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    Could be that whatever techno-magic generators turning the local magic into electricty/steam/whatever power keep the "ambient" level low enough that people can use it without being at risk of contamination, a sort of quarantine zone, where magic is at pre-WILD levels. It could be intentional, a known side effect of the generators, or just a thankful "fact of life" of being inside town walls.

    I don't see it as very 40k, but that's just my perspective. I see the Wilds as a hostile place that is violently and chaotically resisting and repelling, and when that fails, assimilating the civilized world. Civilized spaces might be "clean" enough of Wild Magic (not to be confused with Wild Magic) that just stopping into a Haven for a night is enough to get rid of two weeks of build-up.

    But for some poor soul who panics, runs from his caravan, gets lost, somehow avoids the monsters (which might be ignoring him if he's already "changing"), and survives for a month or two or ten, might end up as something... different. I don't want to take this into Grimdark or Grimderp territory, but this could be a good way to explain Gremlins, and also make use of the rockdwarves and woodelves mentioned earlier. And it does go a long way to reinforce the Wild Vrs Civilization thing.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)22:07 No.16100899
    as far as ambient magic from the dead, necromancers.
    not the usual raise dead, summon shadows kind. simply mages proficient in extracting the magic/mana from once living objects. it could be a key skill for hunters. nothing worse than killing a 500ft long snake only to have the magic re-awaken it.

    and once the magic/mana is extracted, do with it as you will, if there's a way to store it, it could be the highest form of currency. pure mana.

    that could lead into shady underground black (magic) market.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)22:14 No.16100978
    so naruto universe?
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)22:16 No.16101001
    rolled 8 = 8

    yeah, except exciting and things actually happen.
    also guns.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)22:27 No.16101130
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    The rockdwarves and woodelves are, or were, humans.
    Too much time in the wilds, got trapped in a dungeon, the magic changed them. They lost their humanity, but not their sanity. They work with the local villages, in an effort to keep others from sharing their fate.
    But there are stories, whispers, of the magic the dwarves and elves are capable of wielding, and the creatures that hunger for a taste of that power.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)22:35 No.16101199
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    >> [Mnky][M1] Pvt. Armitage !!b5IxBuu9REZ 08/28/11(Sun)22:36 No.16101211
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    You could have those as further alternatives. The great thing about firearms though, is that any crazy mountain man can mix up some gunpowder, and cast a simple barrel and bullets for practically free. I know, because I met one such crazy mountain man, once. Cool guy. Inspired a lot of characters.

    I also forgot to add on, availability. Anyone can mix up powder with the right ingredients (And they are pretty piss easy to find), and all you need are some molds for the bullets. Matches and flint, too, could be bought pretty much anywhere, or found/made/improvised. On the other hand, only more well-stocked towns would have blasting caps, and probably only major hunting outposts and big cities would have paper or metal cartridges.

    Another cool addition would be using an alchemy skill to produce different kinds of gunpowder, and creating more sophisticated and specialized bullets than your basic round ball. But I'm a huge black-powder nerd, so I'll just stop there unless someone actually wants to know.

    So what would a good system for this be? I wouldn't want to use D&D, I'm thinkin' more of a point buy system. GURPS would probably work,but I'm not a big fan of it.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)22:49 No.16101340
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    Like others have said, cities would have lower ambient levels of magic, and bodies rarely pile up enough to get to that level.

    God are vague at the moment, but I like the idea that too much magic in one spot causes them to form. I think that the sheer amount of magic to create one is fuckhueg though, so that's why only the places they can be found are the, uh, Far Wilds. Where the levels can increase gradually, over time and begin to concentrate unlike a dungeon where shit would just explode.

    Perhaps, in a forgotten city, a team of mages is playing around with things they shouldn't. Trying to cheat nature and make their own baby god, the fast way.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)22:58 No.16101470
    I kind of like the idea of the presence of technology sapping and nullifying the effects of ambient mana. All of it just sort of sucked from the air and pumped into the houses and equipment all across the settlements.

    However, this also brings up an interesting aspect with the use of mana. Casters and Mages who use magic offensively would probably benefit from a greater amount of ambient mana. In towns, they may be able to function, though at a slight handicap. Within the forests they may feel more spry. Within dungeons, they feel super charged, having vast amounts of mana to draw and sculpt as they please, though they run the risk of succumbing to the Wilds if they aren't careful.

    Sure, why not? I don't see the connection, but if that's what it takes to make sense of it all, then I guess that's okay.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)23:01 No.16101505
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    Wilderness Corruption/Mana Sickness could be a cool mechanic. It's a slow gradual build-up, and most wouldn't have to worry about it unless they were Hunters or Mages.

    How about, Gremlins form from the Mage who kept the levels of mana in his study too high for too long? And/or from the Hunter that get lost in The Wilds for months on end? I could see their human memories influencing an interest in tech and such. But the poor guys would be half-insane and incapable of handling machinery without fucking it up.

    Elves and Dwarves... Maybe the occasional dead body gets revitalized as one? Die in forest, become an elf. Die in a cave/mountain, be a dwarf.

    Me thinks we're gonna need a new thread soon.
    >> ChrowX !!eo4aiy7L/b7 08/28/11(Sun)23:05 No.16101537
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    Forgot my trip.

    Also, I forgot to add that these changing levels of ambient mana might also affect equipment. If we implement something like Caster Guns that run off mana-cells, the efficiency of the weapon might change in denser areas, allowing a hunter to squeeze off a few more shots in a dungeon than they might get in the standard Wilds.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)23:06 No.16101546
    That's a bit overused, Mages going insane and all. What if instead, as the gain more mana, they garner the attention of the Wilds. No one beast should hoard all that. It'd try to "reclaim" the mage, starting off with Monsters being attracted to them when they get a small charge and ending with whole Biomes trying to swallow them up when they've absorbed a whole damn dungeon.

    It'd be interesting trying to find balance. Should I sap more mana from around me to beat this monster and risk the safety of the Hunters?
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)23:07 No.16101557
    Is that picture fanart of motherfucking Telefang?

    God that shit takes me back.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)23:15 No.16101636
    >But in Pokemon the animals exist solely to COEXIST with their human overlords, and rarely cause any sort of havoc or trouble except sometimes in the movies. Even then, the trouble is usually FRIENDSHIP'D away. This is more Magitech Monster Hunter, IMO.

    The anime yes, however the pokemon mangas are quite a bit darker. In them high class trainers can, and do use their pokemon as weapons against other people. Lt. Surge using his pokemon to paralyze Red and then tossing him into the ocean is a pretty good example. A powerful trainer is essentially like a high level wizard in D&D with the amount of crap he can pull off.
    >> Library Lass 08/28/11(Sun)23:16 No.16101641
    I dunno, I'd kind of prefer that we keep this D&D, myself, as it's what I prefer running.

    The way I'm seeing this, magitech generators are basically a sort of small-scale Defiling, like in Dark Sun.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)23:24 No.16101716
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    Agreed on some sort of Magic Saturation/Mana Sickness tracking. I'm seeing a daily accumulation based on where you are. Zero for in town, 1 for in Havens, 2 on the roads, 3 in the Wilds, 5 or more in the Far Wilds. Could be a good way to say "SCARY SHIT HERE: 9 Mana Sickness per day".

    Casting and using magic items could also potentially add points. At the same time, you might be able to "vent" accumulated points by the same token. Perhaps a check or roll based on the area's "saturation" to avoid taking a point of accumulation when you cast or use a magic item. Or, you could intentionally try to "vent" some of your accumulated points, but doing so does mean opening yourself to the Wild, and if you fail the check, you take double or even triple the amount of accumulation (and don't vent what you already had either).

    Ooooh, any failed check could also result in a "something happens". Like a monster spawning, a personal mutation, a homing signal for monsters, or even drawing the next dungeon eruption to that spot.
    >> teka 08/28/11(Sun)23:34 No.16101784
    Defiling being that situation where there was hardly any magic left to go around? Only in this case it is more a matter of bringing it down to acceptable levels.

    hmm.. planning generations ahead by constructing bulky and wasteful magitech generators just beyond the city walls, either sending back useable energy over wires or simply "wasting" it as steam and heat.

    All in the hopes that your grandchildren will be able to break ground in that area and add a new city precinct.

    Would hardly be involved in a campaign taking place in this world, except perhaps escorting a work party to one as a low-level mission. And knowing you are getting close to home again because you can hear the Thnk..Thnk..Thnk.. of these little structures out beyond the walls.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)23:35 No.16101787
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    Thing with casting though, you're not absorbing the magic. You're sending it outwards.

    The point system seems cool, but let's not it overpower the game. It should be something only the DM keeps track of, because like you said noone really knows where Gremlins come from. The DM would just notify the player in weird ways, "You start to feel... out of touch with those around you."

    Also, a good night's sleep in a low ambiance zone would disperse most Mana Sickness, seeing as how most townspeople don't go insane within a week. At least I don't think so.
    >> ChrowX !!eo4aiy7L/b7 08/28/11(Sun)23:37 No.16101815
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    I've only considered the whole mana saturation thing because using magic the wrong way is what fucked up the world in the first place. With things as bad as they are already, adding to the problem shouldn't go unpunished or unnoticed.

    That being said, I just remembered and idea I had while walking to work.

    We've kind of established that Magitech engineers are part scientist, part mage, using refined magic to augment and enhance existing technology. I see this as something that could only happen after centuries of practicing and perfecting the use of magic, especially when it became mandatory to control the amount of mana put out into the world.

    As such, Magic has become more of a martial art than something wrinkly old men pull from dusty old tomes. After perfecting it for so long, those who use magic in a direct and offensive way have reduced and trimmed spells down to their barest and most efficient means. It is less flashy, but it is also less dangerous to cast this way as it has been reduced down to a science.

    Casters must be disciplined and control their use of mana, careful to never use any more or any less than they actually need.

    This also means that most normal folk can pick up a simple spell or two with some proper tutelage, and most hunters worth a shit would probably have a couple well practiced spells up their sleeve just in case. Not they like having to use them, but better safe than sorry is the mantra when it comes to hunting.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)23:42 No.16101859

    Monk Engineer Mages?

    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)23:44 No.16101882
    could be something like this:

    Magic is like a second science, they are able to do things that normal science would not allow.
    The reason that they can use magic and we cant use it, its because somehow they universe, or entire multiverse allow it. If magicians came to our real world universe they would not be able to use magic and magical itens and things would not be magical anymore.

    They do magic by thinking about it (or mute guys would not be allowed to do it and others animals).

    >How the energy comes from??
    as I said this stuff do things normal science cant do. So it doenst need to remove energy from somewhere.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)23:47 No.16101913
    They'd definitely be a nice contrast to Hunters. Mages would be the logical, concise, and efficient type of people.
    Hunters are the crass, brave yet boisterous, noble but inefficient.

    Mages could be seen as cold to some. While Hunters may seem uncouth and ignorant to others.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)23:47 No.16101914
    fuck, I had a dream I was on a place like this pic.
    I already know what a favela is, but in my dream it was a very clustered one like in this pic
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)23:54 No.16101976
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    Ok, to put and end to this here are some reasons this would never happen:

    1. Magic would more or less merge completely with technology, speeding our already impressive advancement even more, causing us to become borderline utopian.

    2. Even if magic is difficult to use, without superstition in the way new generations would just get better and better at it, like how you can power up a comp and instantly know how to do 50 things on it but your grandparents can only do a fraction of that. So magic that may have once been overly complex for any but the highest scholars would eventually become childs play, cantrip spells would be insignificantly common place.

    3. Humans don't know when to stop. We keep going and going and going, no matter how hard things are, nature has never gotten in the way of our advancement and putting magi-tech in our hands wouldn't help that. A giant nuclear generator? augment that with arcane energy, huge factory.

    4. Weapons would have advanced waaay beyond swords and bows. Actually swords may still be around but guns would be the way to do things because even if magical creatures were resistant to standard iron mass-producing magically augmented bullets would've been the first thing we discovered. As for mass-producing weapons, imagine today's factories but magically enhanced. A $200 gun is now roughly $50 due to ease of manufacture.

    5. Adventure schemes would have to go the way of shadowrun. With our limitless advancement and big companies inevitably taking over as they have sprawling metropolis' would be everywhere, less detrimental to nature perhaps, but still everywhere. And fr there to be a ntwork of tunnels dungeons beneath the surface constantly changing at the rate you suggest whole towns, forests and anything not an ocean or a mountain would be consumed just as quickly, maybe lasting a couple decades at the most. This would force insanely repetitive adventures.
    >> Anonymous 08/28/11(Sun)23:55 No.16101983
    I'm going to go off on a tangent here, but it's an important one.

    What's the currency?

    Gold? Paper money? PURE MANA CHIPS?
    >> Anonymous 08/29/11(Mon)00:00 No.16102016
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    >Stop having fun guys, you're being unrealistic with your fantasy setting.

    You must be a riot at parties, bro.
    >> ChrowX !!eo4aiy7L/b7 08/29/11(Mon)00:01 No.16102025
    Really, really trying not to be rude here. REALLY.... But at least read the thread a little bit more closely. Please? Doesn't even seem like you read the first post and most of your reasons are already in line with other posts that were made in support of why things would go down the way they did.
    >> Anonymous 08/29/11(Mon)00:01 No.16102028
    Perhaps a normal gun made by magic would be cheaper, but a MAGIC GUN would arguably need more sophisticated/magical components which would appropriately raise its cost.
    >> Anonymous 08/29/11(Mon)00:04 No.16102058
    sounds suspiciously like pokemon
    >> Anonymous 08/29/11(Mon)00:05 No.16102073
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    >> Anonymous 08/29/11(Mon)00:11 No.16102119
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    Oh really? By what logic? A sword can be made magical easily and it's one of the most simple tools we have.

    Admitedly I should have read the thread more closely but my reasons stand. In order to have any kind of world where magic and technology co-exist without being magi-tech and without the intelligent races completely dominating nature there would have to be some immensely huge drawbacks to magic, such as magic saturation which I believe OP has turned down.

    Fantasy Or nor logic must be used. Shadowrun is a massively fantastic future but they use logic to get there. So yeah, I like my logic in my fantasy settings. Magic is no excuse to throw intelligence and common sense out the window my friend.
    >> ChrowX !!eo4aiy7L/b7 08/29/11(Mon)00:18 No.16102182
    I'm the OP and I support magitech, I'm all for magical saturation in this setting, still not against the inclusion of guns, and the drawback to magic is that is jacked up nature so bad that it is now active and able to destroy civilizations when left unchecked and further careless use of magic only makes nature more willing to do exactly that.
    >> Anonymous 08/29/11(Mon)00:23 No.16102228
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    Well there you go. With drawbacks like that this setting starts to make sense.

    You still have the problem with adventure seeds I suppose but a little creativity on a DM's part can solve that in any situation.

    The problem I had was that there didn't seem to be any problem with using magic at all, but that's what I get for skimming the thread.
    >> Anonymous 08/29/11(Mon)00:27 No.16102263
    >1. Magic would more or less merge completely with technology, speeding our already impressive advancement even more, causing us to become borderline utopian.

    Problem with that, as it was explained in the thread, you're using more and more magic. Which is what fucked up the world in the first place. Monsters and Mana Sickness, ho!

    >2. Even if magic is difficult to use, without superstition in the way new generations would just get better and better at it, like how you can power up a comp and instantly know how to do 50 things on it but your grandparents can only do a fraction of that. So magic that may have once been overly complex for any but the highest scholars would eventually become childs play, cantrip spells would be insignificantly common place.

    Once again, that's what got us into trouble in the first place. We started flinging the stuff around and like you said, even kids were shooting fireballs all day long. In the thread we came up with the idea of Residual and Ambient Magic. Humans left Residual Magic after casting spells and shit, which increased the natural ambient levels of magic throughout the worlds. Shit got crazy after that.

    >3. Humans don't know when to stop. We keep going and going and going, no matter how hard things are, nature has never gotten in the way of our advancement and putting magi-tech in our hands wouldn't help that. A giant nuclear generator? augment that with arcane energy, huge factory.

    Yes, we do know when to stop. Space concerns are a factor, since the forests don't readily allow themselves to be cut down easy. Magically enchanting everything would only get more monsters on the place and risk Mana Sickness for those involved. Once again, in thread.
    >> ChrowX !!eo4aiy7L/b7 08/29/11(Mon)00:27 No.16102265
    Admittedly, it's a pretty long thread that's been going for 2 days now. I can completely understand the desire to not waste time mucking through all the old replies.
    >> Anonymous 08/29/11(Mon)00:29 No.16102282
    And woops, seems like OP explained it to you.

    I don't blame you for skimming, as this thing is massive now. But don't assume /tg/ won't straighten itself out.
    >> Anonymous 08/29/11(Mon)00:35 No.16102346
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    Yup, also nursing a terrible hangover so i'm not at my brightest. I'm kind of surprised my arguments were even legitimate enough to elicit a response.
    >> Anonymous 08/29/11(Mon)00:54 No.16102533
    God DAMN. OP, you need a fresh thread with a nice summary post for the unenlightened.
    >> ChrowX !!eo4aiy7L/b7 08/29/11(Mon)01:03 No.16102628
    This thread is nearing the end of its lifespan, anywho. We haven't reached autosage yet, but it may be best to let this one quietly while I work on compiling some notes in between playing Deus Ex.

    This thread is already added to the archive, so no worries about losing anything if we let it die.
    >> Anonymous 08/29/11(Mon)01:06 No.16102653
    the one thing this setting needs is a name. now im not sure if were still keeping "Super Kawaii Desu Adventure Mix Pyon". maybe something more relevant? it would help when this finally gets a 1d4chan page.
    >> Anonymous 08/29/11(Mon)01:13 No.16102735
    I still cast my vote for Nature is a Bitch: The RPG.
    >> Library Lass 08/29/11(Mon)03:47 No.16104045
    The Wilds
    >> Anonymous 08/29/11(Mon)05:20 No.16104743
    cell phones were essentially first mentioned in some of the ancient hindu holy books

    >> Anonymous 08/29/11(Mon)07:57 No.16105764
    My vote for "Damn Nature, You Scary!"

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