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  • File : 1307979436.jpg-(651 KB, 1500x900, JSCervini6.jpg)
    651 KB Legend of Zelda RPG Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)11:37 No.15253114  
    Wow, that thread hit the post limit quick.

    Previous thread: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15229712/
    1d4chan page: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Legend_of_Zelda_RPG

    >The summary
    Virtues: Power, Wisdom, Courage
    3 Attributes: Physical, Mental, Spiritual
    Some skills, mostly item-based in keeping with Zelda themes.
    A number of techniques/abilities, which are purchased a-la-carte with XP. Most of them will be tied to a specific skill, requiring a certain number of ranks in that skill to learn.

    The system uses a d6 roll & keep system, using linear comparison for opposed checks. This means that you roll X six-sided dice (with X = your ranks in the relevant Attribute + your ranks in the relevant skill) and only use the Y highest rolls (with Y = your ranks in the relevant Virtue). Linear comparison means that in the case of a contested roll (such as in combat) you compare your highest roll to your opponent's highest, your second highest to their second highest, and so forth. If one party in the contest has more kept dice than the opponent, the extra dice are treated as unopposed.

    Unopposed rolls are compared to a fixed success threshold, with a certain number of successes required to accomplish the intended task. For example, pushing a heavy block might require 2 successes, with success defined as a die showing 4 or greater; in this case, you'd roll Physical and keep Power.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)11:40 No.15253136
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    Character advancement is free-form, with XP investment improving skills and attributes. Virtues are extremely difficult to improve, and shouldn't change much over the course of a typical game. Techniques range from new combat moves (such as the jump attack and sword beam) to unique racial talents (zora creating an electrical field) and passive abilities (being able to walk across shifting sand unhindered.) Most techniques have a skill or attribute prerequisite before they can be purchased. Certain races may recieve XP discounts or lower prerequisites for certain techniques.

    Core races consist of Deku Scrub, Goron, Kokiri, Zora, Hylian, Gerudo and Sheikah, with more under discussion. Each race gets a couple nifty abilities (eg, Gorons can roll into a ball and roll around, Zora can breathe underwater, and so forth). Humans (which include Hylians, Gerudo and Sheikah) instead get a +1 to the Virtue of their choice (though this can't be applied to put any Virtue over the usual starting limit of 4). No other races get any bonuses to Virtues. Each race also has a Mass score, which affects movement speed, getting knocked/pushed around, use of the hookshot/clawshot, and so forth.

    Damage is measured in hearts, and can be dealt in fractions of up to 1/4 heart. Your character has hearts equal to 2 + Physical, making the minimum number of hearts 3. Hearts can be increased by increasing your Physical value, and by obtaining Pieces of Heart and Heart Containers, which will be distributed as rewards for beating bosses and tough puzzles and the like.

    Magic spells and items use Magic Power (with a basic attack spell using 2MP.) The Magic Meter is divided into blocks, each with 6MP. Starting MP is equal to 6 x your Mental value, or one block per Mental. Additional blocks can be aquired by improving your mental score and as rewards (like Heart Containers)
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)11:46 No.15253174
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    There is no official "setting" for the RPG, although the core races are lifted from Ocarina of Time due to their popularity. Players can decide what version of the Zelda universe they would like to use as their setting. Some discussion was made to creating a very general "default" setting specifically for the RPG.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)12:06 No.15253321
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    ahem, as i was saying in latest thread, this is my playtest so far:

    turn 1
    Me-> a1= move 6. a2= Atk dagger 6k4 vs 2k2---- 333435 vs 56 = 5433 vs 65
    result: ((1/4)2)+(1/2)= 1 H dmg to rope
    rope-> a1= atk bite 3k3 vs 4k2---- 363 vs 2211 = 633 vs 22.
    a2= 3k3 vs 4k2---- 5164 vs 5666 = 654 vs 66.
    ar decrx#atk
    result:a1= ((1/2)3)-((1/4)3)= 3/4 H dmg to me a2= (1/2)-(1/4) = 1/4 H dmg to me
    rope 1 h left, me 5 h left

    what should i try to do next turn, any ideas? i dont wanna just atk him, cause that is simple enough and i want to take the system further with this playtest. Im a Sheikah and im fighting a rope
    >> Cz 06/13/11(Mon)12:11 No.15253376
    I unfortunately was half groggy browsing through the drawfag requests (plus half drunk). Thus I don't remember what any of the draw requests are. Wanna throw me some requests again? Earliest I can start them is later tonight.
    >> Cz 06/13/11(Mon)12:17 No.15253436

    If your not worried on taking any extra damage, try cutting the grass to see if the Minish left you anything. If so let the Rope have it with your findings!
    >> Tagman 06/13/11(Mon)12:28 No.15253556
    Less crucial 1d4chan page: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Legend_of_Zelda_RPG/GM_Resources

    If possible, could people say what sort of advice they'd find helpful for dungeon building?
    Possible advice includes:
    - Why a certain room should be small/large/wide/narrow/whatever.
    - Where to use the really nasty monsters in a dungeon.
    - When to get the dungeon map/compass/dungeon item/boss key/whatever.

    Still need to expand on what's already there as well... So much writing...
    >> Timothy Turner 06/13/11(Mon)12:29 No.15253564
    a tiny deku scrub rogue-looking character, an elderly Zora wizard, a Goron warrior with a massive hammer
    and a female hylian with a bow and quiver. All arrayed in a "these are our heroes" shot suitable for a cover or chapter start.

    An adventurer holding a dodongo's mouth open and shoving a bomb down it's throat.
    A fat zora sitting on a rock, playing a lyre while various animals listen.
    A goup of adventurers sitting at a table in an inn, as a fried Octorok is brought to their table on a platter.
    A goron kid with two Gerudo kids on his shoulders.
    A Deku scrub skipping across a dungeon pool.

    A stealthy dagger wielding sheikah jumping from a huge axe wielding gorons shoulders to attack some monster.

    This is from the last thread, it seems it 404'd while I was out...

    I like how Navi was thought out but I think it should be DM's discression how many hints they give a day, or if they give them at all...

    Also, TCN, you might want to put a list of stuff that needs doing up!
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)12:33 No.15253594

    I suggest u draw a zora sneaking behind a gerudo pirate, the zora would be fin shooting the pirate in the back. I remember this was a common ocurrence when i played majoras mask in the zoras plot. Shit was badass. U could draw a mouthguard to the zora to make him look more nija-esque
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)12:40 No.15253651
    What needs doing:
    Crunch: Part of the reason the last thread went by so quickly was because of all the rules discussion. That's a good thing. We need new techniques, item stats, monster stats, movement and combat rules, and so on. We also especially need an XP system. The consensus is that it should be awarded for certain fights and puzzles, rather than just killing monsters, but we need the numbers worked out so we can assign XP costs for techniques.
    More ideas are better than fewer, because they can always be edited later, but be careful of introducing brand-new mechanics or systems.

    Consolidation: The last 10 threads have a wealth of ideas that might have been overlooked. Scanning the archives for ideas that haven't been rendered obsolete by the recent discussion would be useful. We also need to decide on a unified format for technique and item descriptions, but that's more of a convenience issue.

    Editing: Something that can probably wait until the very end is looking over all of the ideas proposed and making changes to them, to make sure they fit with the rest of the system and are balanced.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)12:55 No.15253807
    I propose that stealth checks for hiding were to be about having to beat a threshold of (4) and the number of times u need to get that 4 or more (minimun 4) would depend on the highest threat monster u are fighting. U should need to have any kind of partial cover or concealment to be able to make the check in the first place

    For example, in the above map posted before, the pc should have to use an action to move behind a rock, and then he could make a stealth check to become hidden from the rope, the check would be a physical wisdom applying any modifiers for stealth skill points and any penalties like excesive mass, etc. Because the rope is a minimal threat the pc would need to get in his kept dice values two fours or more to be able to hide. For a low threat mob it could be three fours to beat and so on. What do u think?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)12:58 No.15253855
    That sounds clever. We could also give certain monstes like Beamos or Like-Likes a higher or lower success threshold, if needed.
    >> Timothy Turner 06/13/11(Mon)12:58 No.15253862
    >Consolidation: The last 10 threads have a wealth of ideas that might have been overlooked. Scanning the archives for ideas that haven't been rendered obsolete by the recent discussion would be useful. We also need to decide on a unified format for technique and item descriptions, but that's more of a convenience issue.

    I'll take a look through and put together all the worthwhile tables, statting and other misc. info into a .zip, host it (mf) and post a link here and on the wiki.

    Any objections?
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)12:59 No.15253869

    This would make stealth a lot less blurry. Next thing would be to discuss how to maintain hidden and when do u lose it. Also, Shikah could have the racial advantage of just needing to beat 3s instead of 4s. Or maybe it could be a Racial tech u can purchase.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)13:01 No.15253889

    i dont have any
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)13:17 No.15254048
    Flash bomb vanish (1 action) tech could let u move ur speed and hide without any cover, however u would still need to make a stealth check to become hidden if u dont have cover when u ended the movement, if u ended movement in cover u dont need the check. And the hidden effect could last only ur current turn (If u didnt have cover) . That way u cauld use this tech at the start of ur turn to backstab an enemy or at the end of the turn for an emergency escape to cover and stay hidden.
    It should have a max of 2 uses per encounter to prevent this strategy to be abusable.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)13:38 No.15254245
    Thought this might be useful
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)13:52 No.15254388
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    Moving on with the test here it is:

    Turn 2
    me-> a1= move 2. a2= Active def (acrobatics) (5k3 def)
    rope-> a1=move 2. a2= atk bite 3k3 vs 5k3---- 266 vs 51414 = 662 vs 544
    result:a2= ((1/2)2)-((1/4)2)= 1/2 H dmg to me.
    rope 1 h left, me 4.5 h left

    It seems that passive defence does indeed helps a lot to lighten dmg taken, i managed to reduce 1/4 h dmg even though the rope had a good roll, and i reckon that my character has pretty shit active def.

    character sheet is pic related. i developed him as the race is described in the wiki.
    >> Spaceman !!AD5BPIyLBCW 06/13/11(Mon)14:27 No.15254735
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    took a crack at some of the party members
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)15:32 No.15255276

    I ran an hypothetical round with flash bomb vanish as suggested above and sneak attack as suggested in last thread.

    Sneak Attack
    requirements: 1 |Melee|, 2 |Stealth|

    While completely hidden from a creature, the PC may add their Wisdom score to their kept dice on their next attack. (Attacking a creatue reveals you to them, obviously)

    me-> a1= Flash bomb vanish move 3, 6k5 vs dificculty 3(4)---- 445113 kept 54431= success
    (no cover,hidden this turn) .
    a2= Sneak attack dagger 7k6 vs 2k2---- 4321551 vs 16 = 554321 vs 61.
    result:a2= ((1/4)5)+(1/2)= 1 3/4 H dmg to rope. rope has 1/4 heart left

    This crunch doesnt seem overpowered to me considering that this is a minimal threath monster and i didnt even one hit killed him.
    When i attacked him before in turn 1 i dealt 1 h dmg (i even could have done a max of 1.5 H dmg if that roll had went better), with sneak att i dealt 3/4 h more (max i would be able to get is 2 h dmg).

    To me it seems that we should make it even more powerful considering there are weapons out there which deal 2 H increments on a success, Either that or we nerf the dmg on heavy weps.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)15:46 No.15255416
    thats even better than i was picturing when i suggested it. Good work!
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)15:57 No.15255497
    possible technique suggestions:

    -something to allow a character to accurately throw a melee weapon

    -something giving a character bonuses on bomb accuracy or damage

    - something giving a character a bonus to dodging enemy bombs and explosives

    - techniques that let characters swap out one virtue for another in certain rolls. For example using a mental rather than a physical roll to strike with a certain weapon, representing a high level of training.
    >> Timothy Turner 06/13/11(Mon)16:00 No.15255536
    START: 17:59
    2hours 50mins.

    Just finished compiling everything worthwhile from all 10 threads including several pictures.
    Includes my ring lists that I previously linked thus putting everything in one place.

    Personal thoughts:

    Harp of Ages should also be able to do time altering music like the Ocarina.
    Serious lack of Tools detected.
    What happened to the Cannon, TCN? It just disappeared...

    Here's the file: http://www.mediafire.com/?xpboltmdiicta7z
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)16:34 No.15255764
    Wow, thanks a lot! This should be helpful.

    Harp of Ages and Rod of Seasons (along with the Ocarina of Time, Phantom Hourglass, and all that stuff) could be included in a section on Artifacts or something.

    I noticed a lack of tools too. Everything seems to fit into Magic, Ranged or Melee. The only items I can think of fitting into Tools are the Spinner and (Whatever)shot. Maybe |Tools| needs to be dropped?

    Cannons will definately be in as mounted or standalone weapons, but I'm not sure how a a hand cannon would work just yet. (Maybe as a high-end bomb upgrade, functioning like bomb arrows.)
    >> Spaceman !!AD5BPIyLBCW 06/13/11(Mon)16:39 No.15255807
    some tools off the top of my head:
    Fishing rod, rocs item, zora flippers, lens of truth
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)16:45 No.15255856
    Note that anything can be used as a tool, though.
    If you slice something with a sword, you use |Melee|.
    If you throw your sword (why would you dooo thaaat), it's |Ranged|.
    If you use it as a crowbar (yet again why), you use |Tool|.

    Anything can be a tool. When all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)16:48 No.15255870
    yeah, using a bomb to blow open a rock would be a use of the tool skill, while using it to blow up a dodongo would be a use of the bomb skill
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)16:52 No.15255900
    >Fishing rod
    Not sure if that needs a skill
    >rocs item
    You don't use the item as a tool, it enhances your jumping ability.
    >zora flippers
    See above, but with swimming
    >lens of truth
    Magic, although it doesn't seem to be something that needs a roll.

    The Magnet Gloves are another item that I can think of that uses Tool, but even then it seems like a very small category of items. Everything seems just to use a certain skill, or isn't "used" at all and just grants bonuses or abilities (like the Power Bracelet, Roc's Feather or Zora Flippers),
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)16:52 No.15255904
    Or, since there isn't a bomb skill, Ranged.
    Or Alchemy if you just let it explode on the ground?
    Man, how do you deal with that?

    >Cases ollevid
    Yes, Captcha, this IS an ollevid case.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)16:54 No.15255913
    well then couldn't all uses of bombs be a use of the tool skill? It doesn't make a lot of sense to have one skill for a bow and arrow and a thrown explosive
    >> Timothy Turner 06/13/11(Mon)16:58 No.15255946
    Nooooo! Don't drop |Tool|s under any circumstances! It makes makes for a very useful improv skill for players and DMs alike and also allows for all many non-game options to be adapted for!

    Hadn't though about it like this but as you can see above, I like your style!
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)16:59 No.15255952
    >It makes makes for a very useful improv skill for players and DMs alike and also allows for all many non-game options to be adapted for!

    Can you name some examples?
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:01 No.15255963

    I ask for permission to put this provisional rules in the stealth entry on the wiki. Any objections?
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:01 No.15255964

    >fishing rod
    This would be a very specific thing, so I don't think it requires a specific skill. |Tool| works for those cases. It could probably be refluffed as a |Other|, if that's necessary.

    >power bracelet
    Hey, if your lifting a big rock you'll be happy for every bonus you get.
    A 6 in |Tool| would get you +3k3 if you used the Power Bracelets.
    And that's without the extra stuff it gives.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:01 No.15255971
    go for it bro
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:04 No.15255993
    Hould i add the following incarnation of sneak attack tech to the wiki as well?

    Sneak Attack
    requirements: 1 |Melee|, 2 |Stealth|

    While completely hidden from a creature, the PC may add their Wisdom score to their kept dice on their next attack. (Attacking a creatue reveals you to them, obviously)
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:05 No.15256000
    What skill do bombs use as of now?
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:07 No.15256023
    And throwing stuff. And shooting stuff. It's really only when for when you THROW the bomb.
    Otherwise it's |Alchemy| or |Tool| or |Something Else|.

    What skill do I use when I blow up a wall with a bomb? What skill do I use when I crowbar a door open? What skill do I use when I aim with the [x]shot (probably |Ranged|)? What skill do you use when you do something not covered by other skills, like cooking or minigames or something?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)17:09 No.15256053
    Because lifting objects is just a Physical/Power roll, my idea of the Power Bracelet would give you some kind of bonus to that roll. You don't use the bracelet like a hookshot or a weapon.

    Currently Ranged/Power.

    This was gotten rid of in the last thread.
    >> Timothy Turner 06/13/11(Mon)17:14 No.15256092
    You've put me on the spot here...

    Lock picking (if we allow it). Using a sword as a crowbar. Repairing things, Building things.

    In game assume the players have to disable a very large Armos. One player sees the oppertunity to use his knowledge of masonry against it using a hammer. Not an attack roll, a very specific roll to do damage in a specific way.

    I could name more but they would all be very similar.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:14 No.15256098
    using ranged for throwing bombs doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Maybe that could be a use of the tool skill?

    also how do sneak attacks work right now? Is there a consensus?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)17:14 No.15256108
    >What skill do I use when I blow up a wall with a bomb?
    Ranged/Power, as of now.
    >What skill do I use when I crowbar a door open?
    If you're trying to destroy it, it's a |Melee| attack using the crowbar as a weapon. If you wanted to pry it off it's hinges, it might be a Physical/Power roll.
    >What skill do I use when I aim with the [x]shot (probably |Ranged|)?
    Yeah, that was my thought. You'd use the Ranged skill for hookshots both in combat and non-combat situations.
    >What skill do you use when you do something not covered by other skills, like cooking or minigames or something?
    Probably just a non-skill roll, like Mental/Wisdom. Using |Tool| for cooking doesn't make sense.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)17:18 No.15256140
    This was from the last thread, when we decided against the Wisdom bonus to kept dice.

    Sneak Attack
    -Prerequisites: 2 |Melee|, 2 |Stealth|
    -XP Cost: Low
    Free Action
    Requirements: You must be wielding a |Melee| weapon or a non-Explosive |Ranged| weapon.
    -When you attack a creature you are hidden from, your attack uses Wisdom instead of it's usual Virtue and does 2x damage.

    In conjunction with the idea that creatures you are hidden from cant actively defend against you/get a -2k2 to their defense roll.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:22 No.15256180
    One solution to the Bomb issue is to have bomb attacks force the enemy to make an unopposed Defense check, where each failure results in an increment of damage.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:27 No.15256224
    i like that a lot. The damage you take with a bomb has little to do with the skill of the person wielding it, it has a lot more to do with your ability to get out of the way.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:28 No.15256244
    Thing is, you'll want to use a skill whenever applicable. If nothing else, adding a note that

    "What actions use what skills is not always set in stone. If you can give a reason for Intimidating with Spiritual Power and |Tool|, then it is up to the GM to decide whether you can do that or not."

    A dentist, for example.
    >> Sir Scribe 06/13/11(Mon)17:30 No.15256265
    You may not have one-hit killed it, but remember that you get multiple actions per turn. That sneak attack dropped it down to 1/4 og a heart, so coulf have just shanked it again, and woul dhave killed it in one turn.

    That's... actually really clever. To differ bombs of different powers (someone with Alchemy 6 probably makes stronger bombs than Alchemy 2) we could change the Bombs damage increment.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:31 No.15256273

    Please take a look at this post >>15255276
    It kind of demonstrates that using that rule is not overpowered.
    >> Tagman 06/13/11(Mon)17:31 No.15256279

    I think the lack of tools is an ennui thing, really.
    Unlike weapons and armour that do the same general things, tools have individual effects (that I wanted tags to cover so it's easier to make puzzles work). So I wrote up a load of tags for items and all sorts of things.
    Technically most of the tags needed to make all the tools exist, just no-one has bothered to put them together. Hence ennui.

    "OneNights? itatigi", said Captcha.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:46 No.15256423
    so right now if i want to specialize in bombs i need to put points into Ranged, Alchemy and Tool depending on HOW im going to use the bombs? Isn't that a little ridiculous? I'm not saying there needs to be a Bomb skill, but limiting them to one of those three skills would be nice.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)17:46 No.15256428
    It's not overpowered, but the reasoning against it is that A) Having the enemy's defense lowered instead of the attacker's accuracy increased makes more sense, and B) adding Wisdom do your Keep pool almost always brings it over your Rolled pool, which makes that Sneak Attack "asks players to invoke an exceptionary rule."

    I never said it was overpowered, but it is obscure and confusing compared to the other solution. See the last thread for the massive discussion about it.
    >> Timothy Turner 06/13/11(Mon)17:51 No.15256478

    The problem comes from bombs not suiting any of those skills individually and end up being cross-skill... We either need the bomb rule or have a painful bomb system.

    To be honest I don't see why we need to reduce the number of skills...?
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:55 No.15256518
    maybe there could be a separate skill for thrown weapons and other ranged weapons? So a throwing star, or a a dart, or a bomb would use the Throw skill while bows and slingshots would the Ranged skill.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:56 No.15256533
    I just finished editing stealth skill in the wiki, have a look at it pls.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)17:58 No.15256546
    also i think you could use a skill to see if the bomb landed close enough to hit and then the enemy has to make an unopposed defense roll as per the bomb rule.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)18:00 No.15256561
    reading it is kind of a chore. It needs to be rewritten for flow and clarity.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)18:01 No.15256570

    Point taken, ill playtest it next.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)18:15 No.15256713
    I'm ok with scrapping the |tool| skill and redistributing what little went in there. As stated previously, most of what might fit in there either doesn't really need a roll or can be fit into a different skill. Even the spinner could be done under |melee| (when using it to attack; otherwise it seems like something that wouldn't need much in the way of rolls). I feel like for the most part it's something of a relic from the early threads when we were considering skill rank prerequisites for use of items whether those items would have dice rolls involved or not, which it looks like we've pretty much scrapped at this point (and rightly so).

    Bombs should be governed by |ranged|/Power when trying to use them in combat or to throw them at a distant target, but simply planting a bomb by a breakable wall or something shouldn't require any rolls at all. |Alchemy| should only be involved in the making of bombs, not their actual use.

    >To be honest I don't see why we need to reduce the number of skills...?
    It's not so much reducing the number of skills as it is eliminating a skill that has no real reason to justify its existence as a distinct skill. We don't want to have skills that wind up like D&D 3.X, where certain skills are pretty much never used because there are so few situations where they're actually useful.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)18:21 No.15256770

    pls do
    >> Timothy Turner 06/13/11(Mon)18:22 No.15256776

    With hindsight I see that I might be wrong. I liked the skill because the |Tool|s were some of my favorite parts of the games... Damn nostalgia.

    Either way, it might be worth compiling a list of all the tools (notice the lack of the |____| format) that we have.... I'm off for a sleep now but I'll be sure to take a look at it tomorrow.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)18:23 No.15256792
    I agree. I wouldn't mind having a |Tools| skill if it had enough uses to justify it's existience, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

    I can see bombs not needing a roll to do damage (using the idea from >>15256180 ), but a bomb thrower would use a Ranged/Power attack to throw the bomb into an enemy's space, or to hit a specific object (like a dodongo's mouth or hole in the wall), since it would be similar to hurling a rock or a pot (also Ranged/Power.) Failure could result in the bomb landing somewhere near the target, or worse, a place very close to the thrower.
    >> Timothy Turner 06/13/11(Mon)18:31 No.15256860

    How about targetting a specific number (number of squares away you are from target)? you can modify your roll to do with how many points you have in your ranged power modifyer. Further distance means more dice and therefore more room for error, but higher modifyer means you get a higher chance to get the value you want.


    Distance to target is the target number. Roll however many d6 you want. Tollerance to hit target =ranged/power mod. Throw limit must be set at xD6.

    Good night.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)18:54 No.15257065
    I'm not quite sure what this means.
    So if a Dodongo is 3 squares away, the target number is 4(3)? Or would it be 3(3)? I'm not too familiar with the roll and keep system, so that explanation is a bit confusing for me. Can anyone clear this up?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)19:00 No.15257136
    I'm not sure what it means either and it limits the range of a thrown bomb to 6 squares with a super-powered character. The default range of a thrown bomb is 5 spaces.

    Now that I think about it, giving bombs a degree of failure isn't a good idea. Rolling to physically strike an enemy or aim into a hole or something still makes sense.

    I can think of two bomb-related techniques: one that lets you prime and throw/roll/set a bomb as a Single Action (which would usually be 2 actions), and another that lets your bombs to explode immediately if they strike an enemy (instead of at the beginning of your next turn.)
    >> Sir Scribe 06/13/11(Mon)19:02 No.15257153
    Hold on, everyone keeps saying Ranged/Power... does that mean we've taken Physical out of the equation for throwing shit? That doesnt seem right...
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)19:12 No.15257281
    Physical is part of |Ranged|.

    So hitting with bombs should be a standard opposed check like everything else?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)19:21 No.15257368
    Hitting, yes but not the explosion.

    Ranged is a physical skill. Someone with a good ranged skill can throw things better than someone without it. Lifting a heavy object you want to throw would still be Physical/Power, though.

    In a similar vein, is 3/4H too much damage for a thrown pot or rock? I was using my experience from the games, where they did more damage than your typical sword strike.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)19:36 No.15257558
    I ask for permission to add this 2 techs to the wiki.

    Sneak Attack
    -Prerequisites: 2 |Melee|, 2 |Stealth|
    -XP Cost: Low
    Free Action
    Requirements: You must be wielding a |Melee| weapon or a non-Explosive |Ranged| weapon.
    -When you attack a creature you are hidden from, your attack uses Wisdom instead of it's usual Virtue and does 2x damage.

    Flash Bomb Vanish
    -Prerequisites: 3 |Stealth|
    -XP Cost: Low
    1 Action
    Special: 2 times per encounter
    -You move and you can make a stealth roll to hide without any cover, if you ended your movement in cover you automatically hide. When you dont have cover at the end of the turn in whcich you used this technique you lose hidden.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)19:39 No.15257581
    3/4 might not be too bad, considering anyone invested heavily in Power will likely have higher-damage alternatives.

    By the way, I know that fractions have been the norm for damage increments thus far, but perhaps it may be simpler to switch to whole numbers at some point? For example, damage increments could be stated in terms of Heart Pieces (yeah, I know, HP...); so a Heavy weapon would have a damage increment of 6 HP (1+1/2H). I think it would make for much easier totaling of damage.
    Of course, this would create a divergence in the Health mechanic itself, requiring either that all instances of "H" be converted to "HP" or that the difference between Hearts and Heart Pieces be explained. I figure it's worth mentioning, though.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)19:52 No.15257702
    Instead of being used twice an encounter (which is something we aren't using in this system), why not tie it into the use of Deku nuts or flash bombs? You use one as a part of the technique.

    Flash Bomb Vanish
    -Prerequisites: 3 |Stealth|
    -XP Cost: Low (Sheikah)
    1 Action
    Special: Requires a Deku nut/Flash bomb
    -You activate the flash bomb in your space and can can immediately move your speed and make a stealth roll to hide (even without any cover.) If you end your movement behind cover, you remain hidden.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)20:00 No.15257780
    I personally think having sneak attacks use a flat damage increment boost (something like 1/2 or 3/4 heart) would be better than a multiplier, because a multiplier makes more powerful weapons significantly more effective on a sneak attack than less powerful ones. If we double damage, then a dagger (barring other bonuses) gets only 1/4H of extra damage per success, while a sword gets 1/2H extra. That doesn't seem right.

    As for the flashbomb vanish, I like TCN's suggestion (>>15257702), though I'd say you should be automatically hidden during the course of the action and remain so if you end up behind cover. You'd still need to make stealth checks for things done after you vanish (including trying to remain hidden), but no stealth check should be necessary for the technique itself.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)20:04 No.15257820
    I used the sneak attack suggested in this post


    me-> a1= Flash bomb vanish move 3, 6k5 vs threshold 3(4)---- 445113 kept 54431= success
    (no cover,hidden this turn) .
    a2= Sneak attack dagger 6k4 vs 2k2-2k2(for attacking hidden)---- dont need to roll right?
    result:a2= ((1/4)4)+(1/2))2= 3 H dmg to rope. rope is soo dead¡

    as you can see, -2k2 to def when attacking hidden leads to situations like this one when the enemy simply cannot roll to defend at all, is this is ok to you guys im ok with it too
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)20:09 No.15257871

    I didn't post the other techniques from the earlier thread, which give daggers a huge boost.

    -Prerequisites: 2 |Melee|, 3 |Stealth|
    -XP Cost: Low
    Passive Technique
    -You treat daggers as having a Damage Value of 3/4H instead of 1/4H while using Sneak Attack.

    Assassin's Training
    -Prerequisites: 2 |Melee|, 2 Wisdom
    -XP cost: Low
    Passive Technique
    -Wisdom-based Melee weapons do +1/4H more damage

    With the first one, it bumps up the dagger's sneak attack damage to be as deadly as an axe, and the second technique bumps the total damage of a sneak attack to 2H per success. I originally pushed for a flat damage bonus too, but eventually changed my mind.

    On another topic, how's this for a second Deku feature? Their spit attack isn't all too useful to balance with their fire weakness, compared to everything Gorons get and the enhanced mobility of Zoras.
    >Deku Buoyancy: Deku scrubs can walk across the surface of water, as long as their movment ends on solid surface. Otherwise, they sink.

    I also wonder if it's okay if Kokiri have Mass 3, Speed 6 instead of Mass 3, Speed 7. If their racial ability gives them a reliable accuracy bonus, it might be better to keep them at an average speed. It also would make sense that they're not as fast as adults (shorter strides.)
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)20:10 No.15257883
    Ok What about this?

    Flash Bomb Vanish
    -Prerequisites: 3 |Stealth|
    -XP Cost: Low (Sheikah)
    1 Action
    Special: Requires a Deku nut/Flash bomb
    -You activate the flash bomb in your space and can immediately move your speed. You are automatically hidden for the entire movement and if you end your movement behind cover, you remain hidden.

    Is this better?
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)20:17 No.15257936
    Reread >>15257780
    >Barring other bonuses

    I'm perfectly aware of the other techniques available to make daggers competitive, that's not my gripe. All else being equal (i.e., no extra techniques like Backstab), a sneak attack should offer no greater advantage to a character using weapon A than one using weapon B. This is impossible to accomplish with multipliers; you need a flat bonus.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)20:17 No.15257939

    It kind of sucks to have to buy a technique just to be able to sneak attack with a dagger as hard as with an axe, i propose we add this to the sneak attack tech that way we make sneak attacking with daggers worthy.

    Sneak Attack
    -Prerequisites: 2 |Melee|, 2 |Stealth|
    -XP Cost: Low
    Free Action
    Requirements: You must be wielding a |Melee| weapon or a non-Explosive |Ranged| weapon.
    -When you attack a creature you are hidden from, your attack uses Wisdom instead of it's usual Virtue and does 2x damage. You also treat daggers as having a Damage Value of 3/4H instead of 1/4H while using Sneak Attack
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)20:22 No.15257975

    If ypu dont mind it, ill add this tech to the wiki ok?
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)20:28 No.15258035
    We could word it as follows:

    Sneak Attack
    -Prerequisites: 2 |Melee|, 2 |Stealth|
    -XP Cost: Low
    Free Action
    Requirements: You must be wielding a |Melee| weapon or a non-Explosive |Ranged| weapon.
    -When you attack a creature you are hidden from, your attack uses Wisdom instead of it's usual Virtue and does 2x damage. You also treat the weapon you are attacking with as having a Damage Value of 3/4
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)20:28 No.15258036
    Both of those sound good to me.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)21:49 No.15258941
         File1308016175.png-(1.4 MB, 1400x1100, The_Legendary_Captain_Linebeck(...).png)
    1.4 MB
    XP ideas:
    Challenge: Low-Moderate-High
    Low level: 5XP--10XP--25XP
    Moderate level: 10XP--20XP--50XP
    High level: 15XP--30XP--75XP

    >Low challenge: opening a locked door or beating a mob of enemies, inconsequential sidequests
    >Moderate challenge: solving a major dungeon puzzle (like changing the water level or activating light mirrors), defeating a miniboss, major sidequests
    >High challenge: Defeating a full boss/completing a dungeon, completing a critical event.

    >Here's where my math gets iffy
    A low-cost technique could cost 20 or 25 XP, increasing to around 50XP for a high cost technique. After one session, a player could probably afford one or two new techniques or save up for a skill, attribute, or virtue techniques.

    20XP for level 1 in a skill, increasing by 10 each time; 25>35>45>55>65>75
    That's a total of 275XP to bring one skill up to it's maximum.

    30XP for level 2 in an attribute, increasing by 15 each time:X>30>45>60>75>90
    Maxing out an attribute to level 6 costs a total of 300XP.

    40XP for level 2 in a Virtue, increasing by 20 each time;X>40>60>80>100>120
    for a total of 400XP to max out one virtue.

    Thoughts? I think the system for awarding XP is sound, but the cost for skills, attributes and virtues seems a bit steep now that I look at it.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)22:15 No.15259160
    I think that's probably giving out too much experience too frequently. Also, big numbers for the sake of big numbers is stupid. Plus I think that makes it way too easy to improve virtues, which are supposed to be very difficult to change; there's not nearly enough of a difference between virtue costs and the rest.

    Most importantly, excessive bookkeeping is obnoxious, so rather than giving out small amounts of XP for multiple small accomplishments in the course of a single session, something more like the following would be better:
    >1 XP just for showing up to the session
    >1 XP for generally making steady progress in a session
    >1 XP each for smaller milestones (beating a miniboss, figuring out a major puzzle in a dungeon, completing a minor sidequest)
    >2 XP each for major milestones (beating a dungeon boss, completing a big sidequest)
    >1 XP for each instance of particularly good RP, creative problem-solving, etc.

    Thus, you'll typically get no less than 2 XP per session, and more likely somewhere in the 3-5 range, and you don't need to keep track of every little thing. Low-cost techniques would be 2 or maybe even just 1 XP, with the most advanced techniques being closer to 10. Skill ranks could probably use the same system currently on the wiki, just doubling the costs. Attributes would cost 3x the next rank, and Virtues cost 5x the next rank.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)22:20 No.15259210
         File1308018009.png-(69 KB, 960x720, LoZ_RPG_Character_Sheet_B&(...).png)
    69 KB
    and once again I have a whole thread to read before I can make any suggestions because the threads always seem to be the most active while I'm at work. Here's a black and white version of the character sheet for people who want to post up sample characters. figure it should make it easier to just use the fill tool in mspaint to fill in your heart/magic meter
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)22:21 No.15259221
    considering this is pretty much exactly what I suggested several threads back, I support this
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)22:25 No.15259252
    I may or may not have been heavily inspired by something I recalled reading in an earlier thread...

    And by "heavily inspired" I mean "kind of half-remembered something that sounded good, but was too lazy to go back and look up the details so just filled in the gaps with whatever sounded right".

    TL;DR -- I'm a plagiarizing bastard, and I apologize, lol.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)22:42 No.15259391
         File1308019332.png-(80 KB, 960x720, greyscale 2.png)
    80 KB
    I guess my reasoning for big numbers for XP was to allow for racial discounts or something. Maybe that could still happen with the smaller increments.

    Other than that, I like it, though beating a boss could maybe be as high as 3XP. That feels like a big milestone.

    I have a greyscale version of the original file here, dunno if this is any better than the one you made.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)22:44 No.15259408
         File1308019442.png-(30 KB, 601x218, thisiswhatthelittledotsarefor.png)
    30 KB
    Also, the little dots around the Hearts and Magic meter are for you to draw lines through, so you know your maximum value. You fill in the sections of the hearts and bars when you take damage or use up magic.

    >and blingst
    >> Cz 06/13/11(Mon)22:51 No.15259485
         File1308019865.png-(188 KB, 635x463, DekuRouge1.png)
    188 KB
    Back for the night friends, I'mma crack open the tablet now. Heres the Deku part of the first request. Once its finished I'll put em all together in one image as requested.
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)22:53 No.15259512
    i LOVE IT
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/13/11(Mon)22:58 No.15259543
    Does he have leggings?
    And Katars?

    Awesome. Maybe I should get my drawfag on too. I need suggestions though.
    >> Cz 06/13/11(Mon)23:07 No.15259612

    I'll throw you one. I haven't seen much Ritoan going on. Throw us a Ranger Rito for maximum snipe'n.
    >> Spaceman !!AD5BPIyLBCW 06/13/11(Mon)23:25 No.15259739
    I'm going to take another request also, if nothing else I'll just make something of my own
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)23:52 No.15259938
    need to start drawing again someone give me a suggestion
    >> Anonymous 06/13/11(Mon)23:58 No.15259973
    Three heroes standing as silhouettes before a giant fire breathing dragon with one horn or an ominous dungeon entrance.

    A hero opening a chest.

    A character in town pouring rupees onto a table to purchase a new shield while his friends play games for prizes at the festival.

    Basically anything with a zelda feel to it.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)00:02 No.15260003
    This suggestion seems pretty cool

    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)00:16 No.15260106
         File1308024981.png-(73 KB, 389x779, Image.png)
    73 KB
    Sadly, I have no tablet.

    Rito always struck me as having a Native American feel to them. Too bad Medli was the only girl- I based this one mainly off of the men.

    Quick, agile and hollow boned- seems appropriate with Mass 3 and Movement 7
    >> Cz 06/14/11(Tue)00:27 No.15260215
         File1308025675.png-(480 KB, 840x863, Zoramage.png)
    480 KB
    I'm gonna head to bed early tonight, however I'll show you my progress so far.

    >an elderly Zora wizard
    >> Cz 06/14/11(Tue)00:32 No.15260268

    Dude thats fucking awesome. Yeah alot of female non Hylian races rarely make appearances so theres not much to work with.
    >> Spaceman !!AD5BPIyLBCW 06/14/11(Tue)00:49 No.15260390
         File1308026964.png-(165 KB, 571x479, chest1.png)
    165 KB
    quick thing of finding an item

    If I have time tomorrow I want to color this
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)01:05 No.15260536
         File1308027949.png-(1.4 MB, 1178x1013, aquamentus up in this.png)
    1.4 MB
    Awww yeah Aquamentus. If there's anything that Zelda is lacking in, it's dragons.

    Might be my last one for tonight, too.
    >> Cz 06/14/11(Tue)01:17 No.15260658
         File1308028639.png-(806 KB, 612x792, ChapterMockup.png)
    806 KB
    Oh hey before i go I did a tin mock up of a Chapter page for the PDF.

    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)01:33 No.15260823
         File1308029609.png-(631 KB, 714x504, aaaaaa.png)
    631 KB
    That would be pretty sweet, especially if we made our own version of that background picture.

    If nothing else, we're definately ahead of the Zelda d20 RPG in the art department.

    I mean look at it
    >> Cz 06/14/11(Tue)01:46 No.15260930
         File1308030401.png-(144 KB, 494x356, howdoes.png)
    144 KB
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)02:11 No.15261177
    it looks way to much like they are floating in front of the master sword rather then actually being there.
    >urban desond hmm...captcha may be on to something try a urban image.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)03:12 No.15261717
    What kind of techniques are oriented towards Hylians? I can see swordfighting and movement abilities for the Gerudo, and stealth or defensive abilities for Sheikah, but what about Hylians?

    Maybe some Sway type techniques, or abilities that favor armor use? (They seem to be the only race with an army.)
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)03:38 No.15261974
    the character design is amazing, i really love them. It makes me really happy that my request turned out so well.

    Like the other people said they could fit into the background better, but its just mock-up so don't worry about it.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)03:43 No.15262021
         File1308037422.jpg-(68 KB, 267x598, WHY.jpg)
    68 KB

    Dear God, that's wretched.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)07:33 No.15263350
    Morning Bump
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)08:24 No.15263608
    bumping back from the dead
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)09:11 No.15263849
    So can we have a final word on whether |Tool| is scrapped or not?
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)09:56 No.15264130
    Yeah, what is the final consensus about the tool skill¡
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)10:51 No.15264517
    I think the consensus seems to be that |tool| is scrapped.

    There was a suggestion in the previous thread to simply give Hylians a bit of bonus XP to spend on whatever techs they like, rather than having specific racial techniques they get a discount on the way Gerudo and Shiekah do.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)10:59 No.15264571
    Bonus XP might be difficult to do properly- IT could easily become too ovepowered or not powerful enough.

    Discounts are a safe bet, but what sort of techniques they should get discounts on is tricky.

    Looking back to the earlier suggestion of Gerudo>Physical, Sheikah>Mental and Hylian>Spiritual, perhaps those three races could get discounts on techniques that used those attributes? Or we could try and define things a hylian would be good at.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)11:10 No.15264645
    I kind of think that breakdown is a bit of a stretch (especially when it comes to the Shiekah -- they don't strike me as a particularly Mental-focused group);
    If anything, I'd say a more accurate breakdown is more Gerudo = Power, Shiekah = Wisdom, Hylian = Courage, though that's still a pretty broad generalization.
    I do think that Spiritual/|sway| type stuff would be a good category for Hylian racial techs.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)11:16 No.15264704
    If there were any sort of religion checks (which I guess Music is, kinda) that would benefit Hylians too.

    I like the Virtue distinction better, too. They could either get lower prerequisites for techniques that use that Virtue (which already seems to not make sense) or they could have an XP discount on Techniques related to that virtue.

    ..on a side note, is giving Humans a +1 to an Attribute a better idea than giving them a +1 to a virtue?
    >> Timothy Turner 06/14/11(Tue)11:43 No.15264881

    I like +1 to a virtue as I don't think it typecasts any of the races as much... Just me though...
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)11:47 No.15264907
    Considering how much more useful (and difficult to increase) Virtues are than Attributes, and the myriad nifty abilities the nonhuman races get, I think a Virtue bonus is the better balance choice.
    Also, I don't think we should just say "Race X gets discounts on anything based on Virtue/Attribute Y", but rather use those Virtue/Attribute associations as guidelines to choosing which specific techniques get racial discounts.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)12:09 No.15265100
    I agree with both points. I guess we just have to make plenty of specific techniques for the humans.

    Telepathy could be a special, Hylian specific technique.

    Some ideas:
    Sandwalker-Gerudo-Move at full speed on shifting sand or unstable terrain
    Shield Wall-Hylian?-Get +1k0 to Guard/Shield defense rolls when next to an ally.
    Flash Step-Sheikah-When missed by an attack, you can move 2 spaces. (not sure if this overlaps with the effect for Active Defense with Acrobatics)
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)12:34 No.15265341
    What if Flash Step added a square or two to the distance moved in an Acrobatic defense?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)13:05 No.15265596
         File1308071132.png-(1007 KB, 906x1154, LinkImpaAwww.png)
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    That might work, too. Or let them move half their speed instead of one space.

    What other abilities would sheikah be eligable for? Impa (from the NES titles and the Oracle games) and Impaz from Twilight Princess aren't particularly lithe or stealthy. Perhaps some techniques related to magic or mechanical devices, like the Gossip Stones and hookshot, or techniques centered around defending others? (They have a history of being bodyguards as well as assassins.)
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)13:17 No.15265687
    they also weren't sheikah (they had none of the distinguishing traits) sheikah have only appeared in like....3 games?
    >> Timothy Turner 06/14/11(Tue)13:18 No.15265692

    There's quite a few techs from past threads that were sugested that could be added as general and with specific bonuses for Sheikah.

    If you search any of the .txt's for "SHEIKAH TECH" or "TECHS" or "RACIAL TECH" you should find something. I'll take a look myself laters.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)13:31 No.15265803

    Well, in Ocarina of time Impa was a sheikah and she had the ability to use a flash bomb and escape, she also was the sage of shadow, also sheik was supposed to be a sheikah (but in reality he was zelda) and he stroke me as pretty ninja like character. Sheikah are also sometime refered as the "shadow folk".
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)13:42 No.15265874
    there in lies the biggest problem with trying to make techniques/racials for sheikah and korkiri we have such little information on them/they are in such few games that its possible to just turn it into all to much fan wank.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)13:45 No.15265895
    also kokiri can't leave the forests they are born in, using one as a PC is like allowing one to play a dryad unless you want to move the forest threw the power of gmness
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)13:55 No.15265960
    They are indeed the "People of the shadow" but I always assumed sheikah was a cultural/organizational distinction and that they were racially no different from the Hylians they intermingled with. Then again, I would say the same of the Gerudo myself. And the majority of the people in other Zelda games too.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)13:57 No.15265986
    Easily handwaived as rumors with no valid actual proof.

    Alternatively, Kokiri carry a deku talisman granted by their home Deku tree granting them safe passage through the world at large. They always carry a piece of home with them and if they ever release it, they become skullkids.

    Incidentally, skullkid/stalfos should be another race when we get around to it.
    >> Cz 06/14/11(Tue)14:01 No.15266012
         File1308074478.png-(857 KB, 1303x1027, Team1unfinished.png)
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    All thats left is the Goron.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)14:01 No.15266018
    see and thats my way of thinking also
    I dunno about that considering they have always been enemies and very few (if any times) friend.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)14:26 No.15266254
    I've always thought of Shiekah as an ethnic group within Hylians, but Gerudo are definitely different biologically (though obviously not nearly as much so as are Zora or Gorons). You know, the whole "only one male child every 100 years" thing. Probably a subspecies of Hylian, given that they can interbreed freely with Hylian men.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)14:31 No.15266307
    That's part of why they're grouped together as Human instead of having their own racial powers. The techniques are like cultural distinctions.

    It might be interesting to play a man assimilated into the Gerudo tribe, who uses Gerudo techniques despite not being part of that race.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)14:32 No.15266324
    so why not focus on the core four gorron, deku, zora, hylian and then branch out into "subspecies"
    >> Cz 06/14/11(Tue)14:33 No.15266327

    I thought Shiekah was like a sect of Hylians, kinda like a group of ninjas, or an secret order of 'knight'.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)14:37 No.15266367
    Agreed. They were retainers of the royal family.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)14:38 No.15266370
    thats my understanding on it
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)14:41 No.15266393
    That was how it was going to be in the first place, but Sheikah was eventually changed to be it's own racial choice.

    Even if it isn't as exotic of a race compared to Hylians/Gerudo, it still has enough cultural differences to warrant being a choice for Human players. Its a flavor of Human.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)15:19 No.15266698
    Agreed. Sheikah is definitely a different enough flavor to warrant being granted its own bonuses.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)15:32 No.15266803
    I got two questions

    1. Pic related, What would be the best way to make a character like this?

    2. What would the stats be for Cuccos? How many hits would it take to down one before the horde comes along?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)15:33 No.15266810
    So forget what I said in >>15265596 about trying to find generalist Sheikah abilities (though bodyguard aspect is a big part of their culture.)

    Self-Sacrifice (needs a better name)
    XP Cost: medium-high
    Prerequisites: Acrobatics (4 or 5?)
    Free Action (or an interrupting action)
    -When an ally within a number of spaces equal to half your speed is targeted by an attack, you can immediately move half your speed into your ally's space, push them 1 space, and force the enemy to roll the attack against you.

    Interrupting Actions might be something where you can take an action that's not on your turn, but you lose one action on your next turn as a result.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)15:33 No.15266812
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    Forgot my pic silly me
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)15:41 No.15266878
    1. No monkey race (yet), but maybe some transformation magic will be worked out in the future. For right now, you could just play a Mass 3 Move 7 human with a lot of points in Acrobatics.

    2. 4+ hearts, maybe? Enough so that a stray spell or explosion won't call down the horde right away. I don't know if they can even be killed.

    ...can people even eat poultry in Hyrule?
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)15:43 No.15266896
    I'd say eggs yes but birds no. Unless they have specific people to kill Cuccos who have really nice hazard pay.
    >> Timothy Turner 06/14/11(Tue)15:51 No.15266962
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    Did somebody say.. Cucco?

    Those bastards killed me on Tokay island more times than I'm proud...
    >> Cú Chulainn 06/14/11(Tue)16:05 No.15267101

    My God I think I'm in love.
    >> Spaceman !!AD5BPIyLBCW 06/14/11(Tue)16:27 No.15267241
    thats much better than what I did
    >> Cú Chulainn 06/14/11(Tue)16:31 No.15267263
    Don't know if this has been address yet, but in the games Zoras are weak against both ice and fire. Not sure if you guys want to update that or not, and sorry if it's been addressed already.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)17:37 No.15267726
    The fire weakness might have been only for the Zora tunic, not the zoras themselves. The Ice weakness I think has more to do with their unfortunate habit of getting frozen.

    Also, with Zora's only power being able to swim right now, Fire vulnerability might be too much.
    >> Cú Chulainn 06/14/11(Tue)18:18 No.15268095

    Ooh good point. I know the tunic had the weakness, and Zora Link did in MM, but with the swimming being their only feature it makes sense that you're overlooking it.
    >> Timothy Turner 06/14/11(Tue)18:22 No.15268137
    Compiled Zora information from old threads:

    Zora: WIS 2/CRG 1
    Nimble water-based fighters. Specialize in |Rods| and |Instruments|. Can also use |Armor|, |Tools|, |Bombs|, and |Blades|.

    *breathe underwater
    *bonus to kept dice for swimming checks
    *weakness to fire-based attacks
    *bonus to mental, penalty to physical? (I seem to recall Zoras tending toward a more scholarly sort of lifestyle)

    NATURAL WEAPONS (one superior and one sub attack) - Anon
    Zora: Fins and barrier

    Zora Racial Ability: Versatile Fins
    - As the wiki but added ranged (undetermined) and the ability to use one in the shield slot. Also added a weakness to fire to balance out from the rapetastic fins.
    All names are tentative, of course. I'm not that creative.

    Zora Specific Techs

    Ku Shot: Reverting to Dark World origins the Zora can shoot a fireball at their enemy.

    Tsunami Push: While in water the Zora can thrust their fins in a pushing motion creating a turbulent force of water to push the target in any direction at half the Zora's Movement.

    Electric Stinger: The Zora can mak a quick jab, while not dealing much physical damage, a stinger in the Zora's fin can stun the foe.

    Coldblooded: Cuts Ice based damage in half

    Jabu-Jabu's Blessing: While in water the Zora gets a +2 to their movement speed

    Whirlpool: Zora can place a whirlpool in any body of water. Should the Zora place a second whirlpool in the same body of water any creature that enters the whirlpool will be teleported to the second whirlpool's destination.

    Bioluminecense: The Zora's body can create a small amount of light when in dark or shadowed areas.

    Zora Scale: The Zora can deal 1 heart of damage to themselves(stackable) which creates a Zora Scale. Any creature who uses the Zora's Scale can breath underwater for X amount of rounds (X = how many hearts the Zora sacraficed to make the scale)
    >> Timothy Turner 06/14/11(Tue)18:24 No.15268152
    And also a little something to help with the Sheikah debates: one of the original drafts.

    >4 Mass
    .6 Movement

    >Can use |Brawl| techniques with thrown weapons. (In melee range, of course, hidden weapons and such)
    >Gain an extra keep with Stealth and Acrobatics rolls.

    >Take +1 damage from Light based sources (If there is such)

    I'll take another look tomorrow. I would now, but I have a massive headache...
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)19:49 No.15269035
    Here's a new take on the Zora's electric field technique, based on the idea of unopposed defense checks for things like bombs.

    Electric Barrier
    -Prerequisites: Zora, Mental 2
    -XP Cost: Moderate
    -Single Action (Sustain 3MP)
    Special: You must be underwater.
    You generate a field of electricity around yourself which lasts until the beginning of your next turn. Every creature adjacent to you while the barrier is active must make a Defense check (less than 2 successes =1/2H electric damage... there needs to be a better way to write that out.). While the barrier is active, you cannot take any actions besides moving. The effect ends when you exit the water or choose not to sustain it.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)20:24 No.15269374
    If you're just requiring a certain number of successes against a target number rather than having the damage scale based on the number, you could use the notation given on the wiki for unopposed checks of X(Y), where X is the target number and Y is how many successes are needed.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)22:06 No.15270496
    Hmm. Is there a reason that the number needed for a success shouldn't always be 4? Otherwise there are two variables for difficulty.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)22:41 No.15270907
    >Otherwise there are two variables for difficulty.

    That's actually kind of important, given how difficult it is to increase your kept dice count. Particularly for checks not tied to a particular skill, basing it solely on success count makes it too easy to make a test simply impossible for someone who isn't specialized for it. For example, a stone requiring 3 successes to move absolutely demands demands that you have at least 3 Power; anyone with 2 or less can't possibly succeed. And even for a character optimized for Physical Power, 3 successes is a pretty steep task -- not even 1 in 3 tries will pass if the target number is 4.

    Since our numbers for stats are so low (due to trying to keep dice pools to a manageable size so you don't need to haul buckets of d6's around), you need to have more than one factor that can be adjusted in order to have a scale of difficulty that doesn't have huge jumps. Essentially, the number of successes needed is a measure of magnitude of difficulty (1 being low, 2 being average, 3 being above average, 4 being phenomenal, 5+ being legendary), and the target number measures relative difficulty within that broad order of magnitude.
    >> rrenok 06/14/11(Tue)22:45 No.15270946
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    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)22:48 No.15270990

    Oh hey rrenok. Cute Rito girl, haven't seen much love for them artwise. Awesome concept.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)22:59 No.15271095

    Thet should be able to use this tech outside of water, otherwies it is horrible. I remember that links zora form was able to use this aura outside the water too. So it is already a precedent.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)23:02 No.15271138
    if I remember correctly it just had a greater range in water
    >> Spaceman !!AD5BPIyLBCW 06/14/11(Tue)23:10 No.15271224
    any requests for draws?
    going to be taking my tablet for a spin
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)23:10 No.15271233

    Perhaps on land it only hurts if enemies hit you. In the water it actively damages them? I don't know how to implement a "larger range" wihtout the Zora becoming a 25' sphere of electrical death.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)23:13 No.15271266
    There's already a few suggestions in these posts

    but I'd like to see more casual, social pictures, like the market scene that was suggested. Those little touches that make Zelda more than a dungeon crawler.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)23:14 No.15271274
    on land just give them the Electrified status.
    >Electrified: When the creature is hit with an edged melee weapon, the attacker takes 2/4H electric damage and is Stunned.
    and when in the water make it a 5 foot radius/1 meter/whatever is the standard measurement we are using. (I vote metric)
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)23:34 No.15271513
    looks great so far
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/14/11(Tue)23:42 No.15271611
    Sounds good. Should the electrified thing be a seperate technique that the underwaterwater barrier requires as a prerequisite?

    If people are okay with characters moving 6 meters as one action, then I'm ok with metric. It was trying to balance realistic distances with fair gameplay that led to the discussion about it earlier.
    >> Anonymous 06/14/11(Tue)23:53 No.15271709
    >I remember that links zora form was able to use this aura outside the water too


    Been playing MM over the past couple of days, he can only do it underwater.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)00:02 No.15271787
    I thought so too, but it looks like he can according to the wiki.
    >Pressing the R button on land will extend his right fin and make it into a shield. By holding both B and R, it's possible to create an electric aura on land, and moving with it by holding Z (like moving with a normal shield).

    It might be a bug, though, since the "cone" of the electric field is pointed towards the ground and moves as if Link were swimming.

    Being able to become Electrified is still a decent technique, though.
    >> Spaceman !!AD5BPIyLBCW 06/15/11(Wed)00:16 No.15271925
         File1308111404.png-(804 KB, 1500x1313, rito and friends.png)
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    That would be a cool racial skill, like sort of a jelly fish thing
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)00:26 No.15272009

    Huh. Whaddya know!

    I never really fought on land as Zora-Link since he's not that great and kinda slow. Plus, didn't do the same damage as the gold sword and the boomerang-fins were wonky.

    Still, electrical field would be boss. Should suck up MP like a korean whore though, since even tapping it once takes a chunk off.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)01:05 No.15272351
    Thread has been archived

    Make sure to make the next one before this one begins autosaging.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)01:24 No.15272496
    Would parry attacks be under |Acrobatics| even though it is more offensive that defensive or could you place it as a sword technique.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)02:06 No.15272799
    So,will zora have natural weapons (fin blades) as a beggining racia feature? i noticed it was taken out of the wiki. I know they are a race supposedly more ariented towards magic, but pls lets not give them any type of penalty when making Physical checks as it was suggested before, it would make a zora melee fighter almost undoable. Lets just give them some kind of bonus to the magic skill to reflect their affinitty to magic.

    In conclusion, i propose the zora race as follows:

    * Aquatic: Zora have a natural swim speed, and can speak and breathe underwater.
    * Fin blades: 1/2 h wisdom melee weapon and 1/4 shield. (the fin shot ould stay as a racial tech, same as the electric aura)
    * Magic affinity: Zoras have one extra keep when making magic skill rolls.
    * Zora Weakness: Zoras take 2x Ice damage.
    4 Mass, 6 Movement(Swim 8)
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)02:13 No.15272860

    One extra kkep to magic checks is kind of useless.
    i think they should have magic rank 1 by default.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)02:38 No.15273091
    We decided that no race is getting starting skill bonuses, and every character has at least 6 MP to begin with.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)05:42 No.15273979
    >* Fin blades: 1/2 h wisdom melee weapon and 1/4 shield. (the fin shot ould stay as a racial tech, same as the electric aura)
    Unless there's evidence in the games of a significant number of Zora being able to do this naturally I think Fin Blades should be a technique. I also don't think that Aquatic is significant enough nor is there a strong enough case from a canonical perspective for giving Zora 2x Ice damage unless is absolutely necessary for balance. Here's what I propose:

    * Aquatic: Zora have a natural swim speed, and can speak and breathe underwater.
    4 Mass, 6 Movement(Swim 8)
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)06:12 No.15274090
    * +1 Power (cannot exceed the character creation maximum)
    4 Mass, 6 Movement

    * +1 to Virtue of your choice (cannot exceed the character creation maximum)
    4 Mass, 6 Movement

    * +1 Wisdom (cannot exceed the character creation maximum)
    4 Mass, 6 Movement

    It makes sense if you think about it. I'm just too tired to explain it at the moment.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)07:32 No.15274442
    I don't think Gerudos and Sheikah should get virtue boosts. They already get a bunch of other bonuses.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)09:09 No.15274926
    It should either be:
    Gerudo, Hylian, and Sheikah only gain +1 to Power, Courage, and Wisdom respectively.
    Each has techniques they get discounts on
    Hylian gets +1 Virtue and no skill bonuses
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)09:24 No.15274996
    Potential way to fix the racial resistances:

    +1 Virtue
    Can Purchase any Racial Ability at 2x price
    Light Resist/Shadow Weak

    Fairy Companion
    1 rank in Sway or Instrument
    Racial Abilities Available for Purchase
    Wind Resist/Earth Weak

    1 rank in Melee or Ranged
    Racial Abilities Available for Purchase
    Earth Resist/Electric Weak

    1 Rank in Stealth or Acrobatics
    Racial Abilities Available for Purchase
    Shadow Resist/Light Weak

    1 Rank in Ranged or Alchemy
    Racial Abilities Available for Purchase
    Electric Resist/Fire Weak

    Defense Curl
    1 Rank in Shield or Heavy
    Racial Abilities Available for Purchase
    Fire Resist/Water Weak

    Swim and +1k0 to all underwater checks
    1 Rank in Magic or Instrument
    Racial Abilities Available for Purchase
    Water Resist/Ice Weak

    1 Rank in Acrobatics or Ranged
    Racial Abilities Available for Purchase
    Ice Resist/Wind Weak
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)09:42 No.15275087
    Any one of those things alone probably is not a significant enough bonus to balance with the really useful abilities that, say, Gorons get. +1 Virtue and small discounts on racially-relevant techniques (i.e., techniques that are available to everyone but tagged as a Gerudo, Shiekah, or Hylian racial technique) should be balanced for the human races.

    I don't think every race should have elemental weaknesses/resistances, and there's no guarantee that all of those elemental damage types will be present at all, let alone with equal commonality.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)09:50 No.15275138
    Also, I don't like the idea of skill bonuses as a racial perk. Lends itself too much to racial role stereotypes, especially when we're also having racial techniques.

    Plus, Hylians should not be able to get any racial technique they want. Most of the racial techs for the nonhuman races are dependent on their exotic physiology (the Deku's projectile-spitting mouth, the Goron's thick hide, Zora's fins, and so forth), which a Hylian couldn't really duplicate.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)10:19 No.15275365
    Well, given the fact that deku can spit things to attack and gorons can roll to hit a group of enemies, i just find the idea only to give zoras the swimming thing as an advantage (which is only worthy in an adventure under water which would requiere a full party of zoras to be fun). i mean they are an underwhelming choice of a race right now. If nobody likes the fin weapons, we should at least givr em the electric aura thing so they can match the coolness of the other 2 similar races at least.Racial weaknesses are a lousy idea, It is giving the gm to much power to destroy a pc he doesnt like.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)10:33 No.15275425

    Giving skill bonuses is not really a problem (racial stereotypes are gonna exist anyways), at the end of the day, if we for exemple give 1 rank in stealth to sheikah, it has no impact in the final design of the character, we are not taking away the right to the player to allocate his normal skill points wherever he feels like. It doesnt means i cannot make a sheukah mage, the only difference will be that this mage will end with an extra rank in stealth, it is not a disadvantage, and it is not too much a great advantage if i end up making a stealthy pc. If it is too much to give the a whole rank in a particular skill, we could give just an extra keep. We can say hyrulians get an extra keep or skill rank in whichever skill they want.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)10:53 No.15275569
    We were avoiding giving out racial skill, attribute and virtue bonuses so races weren't pigeonholed into a certain role from the beginning.

    If Zora seem too hobbled by their Ice weakness, it could be reduced somehow. Alternately, they could gain some other ability, although something that would be useful for all Zora players is hard to come up with.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)10:58 No.15275597

    But my exact point is that it is not pigeonholing anybody. Also, i have a hard time seeing how electric aura wouldnt be useful for any zora, fighter or mage. SOmebody mentioned earlier that pcs will have an starting 6 mp, that makes the aura usable for any zora, fighter or mage.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)11:08 No.15275668
    It is like playing a dnd 4e drow who is a plate wearing cleric, he would function, exactly as any other cleric except he has +2 bonus to stealth for you know, being a drow. Just because you have a racial +2 to any skill it doesnt mean that you cannot be any other kind of character who chooses to focus in other things.
    >> another take on races Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)11:10 No.15275691
    It would be useful, but it seems potent enough that it should be bought rather than given away..

    * * *

    Deku Scrub (2 Mass, 8 Movement)
    -Deku Spit: Deku scrubs can fire seeds or Deku nuts as a Single Action. Atack: Physical/Courage, (variable)H damage, Range 5
    -Deku Buoyancy: Deku scrubs can walk across the surface of water, as long as their movment ends on solid surface. Otherwise, they sink.
    -Deku Weakness: Deku scrubs take 2x Fire damage.

    Goron (6 Mass, 4 Movement)
    -Goron Curl- You can curl up into a ball as a Single Action. While curled up, you cannot take any actions besides uncurling and rolling (see below). You remain curled up until you uncurl or are knocked down.
    -Goron Roll- While curled up, as a Single Action you move twice your speed and may move through occupied spaces as an attack. Attack: Physical/Power, ½H Damage, Push 1
    -Goron Resistance: Gorons take 1/2x Fire damage
    -Goron Density: Gorons cannot swim and sink to the bottom of any body of water they enter.
    -Goron vulnerability: Gorons take 2x Ice damage

    Human (4 Mass, 6 Movement)
    -Human Versatility: Humans get +1 to a Virtue of their choice (cannot exceed the character creation maximum).
    -Human Diversity: Humans choose from one of three races at character creation: Hylian, Sheikah, and Gerudo. This choice determines the costs of certain techniques. The choice is more cultural than it is racial, so a Gerudo raised in a Hylian city or a Hylian indoctrinated into the Sheikah could choose a race different than their own ethnicity.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)11:12 No.15275698
    Kokiri (3 Mass, 7 (maybe 6?) Movement)
    -Kokiri Companion: (rules about owning and controlling a fairy, including the GM avatar thing)
    -Kokiri Insight: As a single action, the Kokiri can designate a target within 5 squares of them. They have a +1k0 bonus to attack rolls and defense rolls against the target.
    >And possibly
    -Kokiri Weakness: Kokiri take 2x Evil(Shadow?) Damage

    Rito (3 Mass, 7 Movement)
    -Rito Flight: Rito can fly a number of spaces equal to their speed as a move action, as long as they end their movement on a solid surface. Otherwise, they fall.
    -Rito Density: Rito are considered 1 Mass category (Light, Normal, or Heavy) lower than their actual mass indicates.

    Zora (4 Mass, 6 Movement, Swim 8)
    -Aquatic: Zora have a natural swim speed, and can speak and breathe underwater.
    -Zora Weakness: Zoras take 2x Ice damage.
    -Zora Coldbloodedness: When a Zora takes Ice damage, their movement is halved (Slowed effect?) until the end of their next turn.

    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)11:28 No.15275807

    Pls tell me how is it more powerful than the gorons curling attack??
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)11:33 No.15275842
    /tg/, getting shit done.
    Marvelous thread sirs.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)11:54 No.15276005
    Gorons are pretty powerful with that rolling movement thing, but that seems to be a big part of being a goron.
    Keeping the mode of transportation but making the attack purchaseable doesn't seem right either.

    What can be done to fix gorons?
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)12:06 No.15276081
    What if instead of giving them a special attack, we based the rolling movement on these charging rules from thread 9:

    >Double action
    >Move up to twice your speed in a straight line, but you must move at least 2 spaces. If you encounter a creature in the path of your charge, make a modified Physical Power check, adding 1k1 to your roll. The opponent may choose to oppose with either Physical Power or Physical Wisdom. For each success you score, you push the opponent back 1 meter and deal 1/4h of damage. If you score more total successes than the opponent, you may instead choose to push the opponent 1 square out of your path and continue your charge. In this case, the opponent takes no damage, but is knocked prone if you scored at least two more successes than he did.

    Giving them some small bonus to the charge action when rolling (+1k0 on the roll, or maybe deal damage even when pushing the target aside) could be balanced enough. Or maybe if that's still too strong, we could just make it so rolling movement always counts as a charge.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)12:13 No.15276141
    Considering there are weapons who deal more than 1 h of dmg increment, the racial atk of gorons doesnt seem overpowered, taking into account that gorons have a speed of 4 you will be attacking a max of two monsters in the best of cases. It gives versatility to a heavy weapon wielding goron since he can decide if he wants to atk one creature for big dmg or more enemies for less dmg to each one of em. The problem is nobody wants to come up with equally useful powers for other races. I think we are being too timid in designing races. If it comes to the case that pcs are "too powerful" for monsters, we should make monsters more powerful and because making pcs weaker to match monsters lousiness is never the right answer. We will never know if that is the case if we dont run playtests but for that we need to have fully designed races already.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)12:16 No.15276159
    alternatively you could give them the spikes from majora's mask
    Make it so they can inflict light damage by rolling into something, but heavy damage by rolling into something with spikes active, but keeping spikes active drains magic over time
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)12:21 No.15276201

    That would be a racial tech and there is already one in the wiki.
    >> Cz 06/15/11(Wed)12:45 No.15276366
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    Would we consider having a purchasable tech that allows races that would sink like a rock the ability to atleast be able to resurface and move at half(or less) their speed while in water? This of course if considered would be an EXTREMELY expensive tech.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)13:31 No.15276672

    I agree
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)13:56 No.15276871
    Letting them charge while curled up seems more fair. Maybe a technique can let them roll around as if they were moving instead of having them go in a straight line.

    Also, in >>15275698 do the ideas for the Rito and Kokiri seem okay? What about the alternate weakness for Zora?
    >> Cz 06/15/11(Wed)14:00 No.15276901
    -Prerequisites: Deku, Goron, |Acrobatics| 4
    -XP Cost: High
    Where as you would normally sink in water, you have enough body strength and basic knowledge of swimming that you may rise to the surface of the water to prevent yourself from drowning. However while in water your movement is cut in half.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)14:01 No.15276907
    I do think it makes more sense to basically turn rolling into the goron equivalent of charge. They should get a bonus to defense rolls while doing it though, maybe a +0k1?

    The rules for kokiri and rito you suggested seem fine, although im not so sure about the rito needing to end flight on a solid space. In the game that was only because the rito in question was an adolescent if i remember correctly.

    The alternate weakness for Zora is a lot better imho, especially since otherwise ice damage would become really overpowered really quickly.
    >> Cz 06/15/11(Wed)14:10 No.15276976

    I'd stay with the Ice Damage Weakness for Zora. The Kokiri weakness is alittle tougher, I like the +1k0, it actually would give me an incentive to play one. I think the Shadow damage weakness is a good fallback if we cant think of anything else. The Rito one would be good for a startout racial, if only later down the road we can add techs that allow them to stay up longer and more.
    >> Cz 06/15/11(Wed)14:15 No.15277020

    Sorry ment to be aimed twords this.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)14:32 No.15277179
    Maybe a +1k1 to defense and attack, like the attack roll, to make it simple. Charging is one of those things that seems okay to splurge on an extra Keep die for.

    Natural armor while curled up could be a feat for gorons as well.

    The Rito "Land at the end of your movement" thing was supposed to be more of a duration tracker, similar to the Deku waterwalking thing. Maybe it should be rewritten so Rito can fly for the entirety of a double move like Deku can, though.

    I can see it working either way for Zora. Damage type vulnerability might be too harsh, or it might be too weak if the type only shows up in one dungeon or something.
    >> Cz 06/15/11(Wed)14:36 No.15277203
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    Right because think of the one player who picked being a Goron and then hears this.

    "Okay guys, we're off to the Water Temple."

    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)14:47 No.15277267

    Lol, i have to agree, lets not cripple the races the game doesnt have to be 100% logical and realistic. We are talking about fantastical creatures after all the game is still fun if we let a goron swim, besides it would encourage the players to come up with some original roleplaying ideas to justify this.
    >> Cz 06/15/11(Wed)15:07 No.15277402
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    God this it like the 12th attempt at a Goron, but I think this one's better then the rest. Does everyone approve of this sketch before I continue inking?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)15:23 No.15277518
    Hell yes!

    Gorons can at least walk across the botom of a pool and climb a wall to the surface, but that Paddle technique seems like a good way to rectify it.
    >> Cz 06/15/11(Wed)15:31 No.15277581

    And apparently as seen in Majora's mask, they can Jesus Walk over lava.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)15:32 No.15277587
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    What sort of item would be the opposite of the Iron Boots? Someone suggested helium boots early on, but that seems a bit silly

    Pic related. Also why are gorons so hilarious
    >> Cz 06/15/11(Wed)15:34 No.15277602
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    Hover Boots. OoT.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)15:49 No.15277743
    That could work. But the Hover Boots' normal effect might be too potent to give out along with a way for heavy characters to navigate water. What about an all new mundane item? Like an inflateable belt or some magic anklets or something. Some device that affects density.
    >> Cz 06/15/11(Wed)15:56 No.15277809

    Float Belt
    Life Saver
    Air Pads
    Flotation Tunic
    Surface Ring
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)16:24 No.15278057
    I like the float belt. Single action to activate/Deactivate?

    Should we say that Mass greater than 5 is enough to cause sinking in non-gorons? The iron boots could boost Mass by 3, the ring could decrease it (for water purposes) by 2 or 3.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)16:32 No.15278121
    >floatation belt
    I'm picturing a Goron wearing one of those inflatable animal-shaped inner-tube type pool toys...
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)16:40 No.15278173
    It might as well be, though it might look manlier if they were just a series of canvas pouches that inflated and deflated.

    Player can make the connection to a pool-toy if it pleases them.

    Alternately: You open a big chest and discover the Fun Noodle.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)16:57 No.15278283
    can't we include a flotation option for gorons that isn't terribly silly and cartoonish?
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)17:13 No.15278383
    There's the magic belt/bracelet thing from an earlier post.
    But then again, Zelda is a pretty silly game.
    >> Cz 06/15/11(Wed)17:39 No.15278583
         File1308173988.jpg-(17 KB, 256x352, zelda_lole9t7.jpg)
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    >implying Zelda doesn't have its cartoony moments.
    >> Cz 06/15/11(Wed)17:52 No.15278673
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    Oh by the by, before I push any further, heres a quickie update on that Goron drawing.

    He was the most difficult drawing yet, which is odd considering huge guys are much easier to draw.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)18:16 No.15278859
    Maybe it's just me, but his back seems a little flat.
    >> Cz 06/15/11(Wed)18:48 No.15279122
         File1308178087.png-(622 KB, 780x951, Teamfinish.png)
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    He was unfinished at the time, but heres the full she-bang.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)18:59 No.15279190
    Dang, he's bigger than I expected.

    Awesome pic, though! I can definately see this in a chapeter heading.

    Part of me wants to make an illustration for every monster in the game, but I'll hold off until we get that far.

    I'll be (re)posting some technique ideas in a bit.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)19:38 No.15279500
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    >can't we include a flotation option for gorons that isn't terribly silly and cartoonish?
    No. This is your flotation device. Use it or sink.

    Also, Captcha invites you to "ccatheyo this", whatever that means.

    Humor aside, how's this sound for official mechanics for Goron rolling:

    Goron Curl: A Goron may take an action to curl into a ball. While curled up, the Goron gains +1k1 to defense rolls and gains a bonus to movement speed equal to its mass, but can take no actions other than uncurling or rolling.

    Goron Roll: While curled up, a Goron may make a charge with a bonus of +1k1 to rolls involved with the charge. (<Referral to rules for charging in the chapter on combat>)
    >Alternatively, if we feel this limits mobility a bit too much:
    Goron Roll: While curled up, a Goron may move a distance up to its speed (as modified by the Goron Curl ability), but no less than two spaces, in a straight line as a single action. Treat this movement as a charge with a +1k1 bonus to rolls involved with the charge. (<Referral to rules for charging in the chapter on combat>)

    Some optional racial techniques that we could offer to improve rolling could include natural armor while curled up and damage bonuses to the charging damage from the roll (which may simply be the spikes, or could be a separate technique, possibly as a prerequisite for the more powerful spikes).

    Also, on the subject of Goron rolling, do you think we should include rules for launching from ramplike structures, or should that be left to GM discretion?
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)19:52 No.15279601
    So wait, Gorons take three actions to do a single Roll attack?
    Curl up -> Roll -> Uncurl
    That's not actually that great, considering that they would do more damage with swords and FULL ATTACK FULL ATTACK.

    >Approach ansion
    It's great for approaching the enemy though.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)20:00 No.15279673
    Maybe make uncurling 1 action, but curling up a free action? That way they can quickly make a charge, but have to pay for it with a slow recovery? Otherwise, my votes for the first option in >>15279500
    Isn't charging a double action, though?

    * * *
    Jump Attack
    -Prerequisites: Melee 2
    -XP Cost: low
    -Double Action
    Move two spaces towards an enemy and make a melee attack. You deal 2x damage with each success from this attack.

    Spin Attack
    -Prerequisites: Melee 2
    -XP Cost: Low
    -Two Actions (0/2/4MP)
    First Action: You charge your weapon. You can choose to spend 2MP to increase the range of the attack by 1 and another 2MP to do 2x damage.
    Second Action: Make a melee attack against each enemy within 1 space of you.

    Sword Beam
    -Prerequisite: Melee 5
    -XP Cost/requirement: High
    -Single Action
    Make a melee attack against one enemy within 10 spaces of you. Your weapon deals Light damage.
    Special: You must be wielding a sword and be at full health.

    Great Spin
    -Prerequisites: Melee 6
    -XP Cost: High
    -Double Action(6MP)
    First Round: You spend this time charging up your attack. If you take damage between this turn and the beginning of your next turn, you lose the charge but do not lose any MP.
    Second Round: Move a number of spaces up to twice your movement and make a melee attack against each enemy within your weapon's reach. Your attack does 2x damage.
    Third Round: You lose both your actions this turn. (Paralyzed? I thought Stunned was where you lose one of your actions)
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)20:39 No.15280004
    So it'll work like a worse version of charging with a |Heavy| weapon?
    That could work for balancing the Gorons.

    Also, a Goron in a water dungeon would just need to be good at climbing to get around.
    Actually, water kinda kills them if they don't have the underwater-breathing thing.
    I think there were actually two gorons that breathed (or did not need to breath) underwater in Twilight Princess: the one in the Goron Hot Springs and the one that was stuck in the meteorite.

    >inigui Limerick,
    There once was a boy from Hylia
    With a sword so sharp it could kill ya
    But he threw a rock
    and he hit a cock
    And now oh god why cuckoos
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)21:04 No.15280191
    >Isn't charging a double action, though?

    Yes, that's why I suggested the second option of "move action that counts as a charge". Either we can make it so they're forced to make double-action charges, unable to do anything but move in a single straight line in their turn, or we can give them a bit more flexibility by letting them split their move into single actions (though still in straight lines).
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)21:48 No.15280593
    If we make the charge twice their speed instead of one time their speed, it might be better to have it as a double action.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)22:00 No.15280682
    Lol, way ahead of you -- I noted the single-action version as being movement equal to speed, not double speed.

    Essentially, the first version in >>15279500 limits you to double action, double move, whereas in the single-action version, you can combine both actions for one big charge, or you can split it into two single action, single move half-charges, each going in a different direction. Or just make one half-charge then uncurl.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)22:21 No.15280834
    I guess it depends on how mobile we want them to be. With two half-charges, I can see it gorons pulling weird, 90-degree angle turns. With the double move, the movement becomes a bit more straightforward (considering you can't change direction while charging.)
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)22:30 No.15280895
    My thoughts exactly, hence why I posted both options for team consideration.

    These techs look good, though I'd suggest adding a rule for holding the charge on a spin attack. Also, might I suggest "dazed" as a name for the action-loss condition after the great spin?
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)22:36 No.15280925
    In 4e, it's the other way around- Dazed is where you lose part of your turn, Stunned is where you lose all of your turn.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)22:39 No.15280951
    Well, this isn't 4e, this is something completely different. "Stunned" always struck me as having a connotation of being a momentary thing, whereas "dazed" is something that sounds reasonable for a longer period of time.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)23:20 No.15281276
    Is there a more severe term we can use? I was considering Paralyzed, but that really only relates to when the character is frozen by a ReDead or something. Otherwise, Dazed sounds good.

    What did you mean by holding a charge?
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)23:27 No.15281327
    Yeah, paralyzed seems like it should be reserved for something even more serious.

    By "holding the charge" I mean where you charge up the sword, then shuffle around a bit before letting loose with the spin.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/15/11(Wed)23:33 No.15281371
    Ah. Maybe change it up so that in the First action you can move up to half your speed .

    >You charge your weapon and can move up to half your movement. You can choose to spend 2MP to increase the range of the attack by 1 and another 2MP to do 2x damage. If you take damage before your second action, the charge is lost, but you don't expend any MP.
    >> Anonymous 06/15/11(Wed)23:36 No.15281400
    Sounds fair to me.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)00:17 No.15281734
    Ohhh, I just noticed this change here:
    >gains a bonus to movement speed equal to its mass,
    That bonus to speed makes sense and changes how I was thinking about. How about this?

    >Goron Curl: A Goron may take an action to curl into a ball. While curled up, the Goron gains +1k1 to defense rolls and gains a bonus to movement speed equal to its mass, but can take no actions other than uncurling (Single Action) or charging.
    >Goron Roll: While curled up, a Goron can charge as a Single Action, but at their normal movement speed instead of double.

    Should it be changed so they can only charge once per turn as well?
    Also, Charge needs rewriting, but the basics (move twice speed, at least 2 spaces, attacks get +1k1 and do 1/4H damage and push 1 space) are good.

    Also it might be confusing to try and tell the difference between a Charge and charging up an attack.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)01:41 No.15282283
    I doubt it will tonight, but if the thread starts autosaging tonight, someone will have to start the new thread, since I have no way to post images from my current situation.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)02:01 No.15282390
    Much like the hover boots, there was winged boots in Zelda 2 that let link walk over the ocean (granted they had preset paths that the boots worked on but still they let him walk over water...forevers)
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)02:20 No.15282520
    I just found out about that item. Sadly, they're only called Boots in that game. Maybe calling them something like the Water Boots seems more Zeldaish.

    If anyone cam come up with new, interesting items (or skillfully rip off items from other RPGs) that would be grand.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)04:40 No.15283381
         File1308213611.jpg-(18 KB, 235x277, Princess_Zelda_Face_Palm_by_Ao(...).jpg)
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    I was suggesting >>15274090 as a complete list of starting bonuses for those races, not an addition to what's on the wiki.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)09:04 No.15284486
    You're about a day late. Besides, the wiki isn't the best place to find up to date information
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)09:27 No.15284568
    SO I realize this is about 8 threads too late be discussing but... has anyone considered making all character progression item based instead of through experience? Players could control some of their advancement through using their collected rupees for training in new techniques or buying certain items in markets instead of just advancing through experience levels. This seems like it would have a much more "Zelda" feel to it.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)10:27 No.15284853
    What is that monster in OP's image? Is that some sort of Wallmaster or a Poe?

    Speaking of which, when will a bestiary be worked on?
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)10:30 No.15284873
    skullkid yes, stalfos no

    I don't see stalfos or even moblins as being player races unless you're considering an evil campaign.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)10:32 No.15284888
    We have a little one for playtesting complete. Take a look:

    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)10:40 No.15284947
    Armos and Gibdos/Redead are missing from that list in my opinion. Maybe even Eyegore (the cyclops from Lttp/Minish Cap/Majora). Oh and the evil river zora/some sort of aquatic projectile monster.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)10:51 No.15285030
    Huh... the guy that updated it didn't put all of my monster entries in. Hold on, I'll add them back unless anyone has any objections:
    ----Moderate Threat----
    Armos Statue
    Stalfos Warrior
    Hylian Captain
    Floor Master
    Ball and Chain Warrior

    -----High Threat-----
    Stalfos Champion
    Darknut Warrior
    Darknut Champion
    Iron Knuckle
    Lizalfos Ancient
    Wall Master
    Giant Poe/King Poe

    ----- Legendary Threat (Classic Recurring Bosses)-----
    King Dodongo/Helmasaur
    Dark Prophet (Phantom Ganon/Aghanim)
    Shadow of the Hero
    The Armos Knight Legion

    -----Immortal Threats-----
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)11:09 No.15285172
    I think it looks good, though I might lump Mothula and the Armos Knights into the standard "high threat" category. (I was thinking of the Wind Waker mothula) and perhaps a non-boss version of Gohma. In the first game, a lot of the boss monsters could be found as minibosses in later dungeons.

    Here are some monsters from my older list that I could add.
    Moderate Threat
    -River Zora
    -Moldorm (normal size)
    -Gyorg (Wind Waker version)

    High Threat
    -Seahat/Big Peahat

    Also, should Gibdos be bumped up into the high threat category? They're basically a stronger version of Redeads or Stalfos, so when they get their wrappings burned away they should become significantly weaker.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)11:28 No.15285295
    Should we have a "Size category" so we know how much space a monster takes up? Seperate from mass?
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)11:32 No.15285334
    We could, although it wouldn't really be combat relevant. Maybe in boss battles, but the large majority of monsters are the same size as a hylian or slightly smaller or larger.

    Also, updating the beastiary now. Let me know if anything doesn't look right.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)11:33 No.15285345
    What about for people using a grid?

    Redead and Gibdos have way too high of an attack, it looks like. 8k8 isn't even on the chart.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)11:35 No.15285364
    They get a lot of hits but they have pathetic damage to compensate. Gives the idea of lots of little attacks while you're frozen in terror.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)11:39 No.15285386
    But doesn't the attack itself indicate the accuracy of the initial grapple? (Paralyzing the enemy would give them some conditional bonuses to hit, anyway.)

    Maybe it would be more useful to have monsters that grab and do continous damage (Like Likes, Baba Serpents, etc) have a sustain action. Their initial attack is determined by a roll to see if they hit, and they automatically do damage each turn until they release.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)11:41 No.15285392
    Fair enough. Just going to change them to the high accuracy bracket for each of their threat levels then. Maybe increase damage a bit.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)11:48 No.15285423
    ReDead Undead ♥♥♥♥♥ Mass 6 Move 3
    Grab (Grapple): 6k5, 0H
    Drain Life (sustain): 1H/Round
    Defense: 4k3
    Special: Fearful Presence (awful shriek?) As a double action, a ReDead can paralyze or (daze?) all living creatures within 5 spaces of it for 1 round.

    >To keep ReDeads from utterly raping players, should there be a 1 round cooldown between any shrieking? It could be explained by having all redeads in an encounter shriek at once.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)12:04 No.15285524
    I notice all of our moderate threat and a lot of our high threat monsters are pretty much melee or short ranged based (Excluding the wizrobe). I think we should fix that.

    Also, proposing the following:


    Garo Master
    Redead Knight
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)12:10 No.15285554
    Paralyze would be the appropriate status for a ReDead's shriek. And I think a 1-round cooldown between shrieks and all ReDeads shrieking together makes sense -- they aren't exactly bright enough to strategize, after all.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)12:22 No.15285622
    There aren't many iconic long ranged enemies to think of...

    Toadpoli can probably be included, as can fireball shooting statues/torches. Archer versions of stalfos and Hylians can be made. If we can come up with orignal monsters that fit with the feel of the game, we could do that too.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)12:31 No.15285676
    I definitely remember moblin/bulblin archers and javelineers being pretty common. And lynels have those sword beams, at least in the Oracle games.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)12:31 No.15285680
    We also don't have Stalchild or Lanmolas yet.

    And for ranged, we could have some hylian archers, moblin canoneers, zora boomerangers, bomb throwing hinox, ice-breathing freezards.

    Also, should the stronger lizalfos be changed to Dinolfos?
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)12:40 No.15285763
    >bomb throwing hinox

    Of course by bomb I meant powder keg hurlers. Or that could be a separate enemy.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)12:42 No.15285776
    Sure, I realized I forgot them too.

    Lesse, Goiyas have boomerangs too.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)12:57 No.15285924
    Should I update the Wiki for races with the rules from
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)13:04 No.15285988
    Sounds good to me. Seems more balanced and I haven't seen any objections.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)13:13 No.15286065
    I'm also ok with this. Though I would like to suggest for the Zora ice weakness, let's go with the half movement rather than double damage, unless we can come up with a good additional ability to give them on top of the swimming.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)13:15 No.15286082

    If someone could make a quick-start Character generation guide, that could make playtesting more attractive.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)13:16 No.15286093
    Alright, updating monster list now.

    Also adding aerolfos to High Threat since we need some high level flying enemies.
    >> Cz 06/16/11(Thu)13:25 No.15286173

    I'll tackle that. Been showing afew friends how to make their characters like 4 threads ago and they've been pumped to playtest ever since.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)13:47 No.15286390
    So why aren't we giving them the fin attack?
    Was it decided that that was Link-exclusive?
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)13:55 No.15286463
    If you punch someone, what damage increment does your fist have? I'm guessing 1/4H. So why not make Zora have 1/2H instead or something?

    Also, weren't weaknesses supposed to just add a bit to the damage increment rather than doubling it?
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)13:56 No.15286465
    It may be. But it's going to be learn-able or purchasable through XP.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)14:04 No.15286534
    Added a bunch of monsters to the wiki. Let me know what you guys think.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)14:16 No.15286662
    A zora technique could make unarmed attacks Edged and do 1/2H.
    A goron technique could change the virtue for unarmed attacks to Power and increase damage to 3/4h.
    And a generic Brawler technique could just increase unarmed damage to 1/2h for nonzoras and nongorons.

    I too, aren't sure about how damage vulnerabilities will work in the end.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)14:45 No.15286947
    New monsters added:

    Minimal Threat Monsters

    Low Threat Monsters
    -River Zora
    -Gerudo Pirate
    -Goron Brawler

    Moderate Threat Monsters
    -Hylian Archer
    -Armos Statue
    -Stalfos Warrior
    ---Mini Freezard
    -Garo Apprentice
    -Gerudo Soldier
    -Goron Siegebreaker
    -Zora Shorerunner

    High Threat Monsters
    -Mighty Darknut (renamed Darknut Champion)
    -Dinolfos (renamed Lizalfos Champion)
    -Garo Master
    -ReDead Knight
    -Goron Canoneer
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)14:52 No.15287036
    ...Wouldn't unarmed attacks be Power anyway?
    Punching someone in the face seems more Power than Courage. And it sure isn't Wisdom.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)14:53 No.15287039
    >minimal threat

    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)14:58 No.15287105
    Bubbles have killed more Links than Ganondorf.
    >Minimal threat
    ...Put them on Low at least.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)14:59 No.15287115
    Would we even need to add any original monsters? There's such a diverse selection just within the games that we can definitely fill out a good full bestiary without resorting to new ones. That said, we should certainly leave the game masters the option of creating new enemies.

    If we did have to create some new ones I would say a few might be stuff like Cucko King, Deku Treants, Golems or Elementals, and Dark Fairies (Anit-Fairy race).

    Could we say the hit damage for unarmed is 1/4 x Power?
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)15:02 No.15287159
    Bubble changed to Low by popular demand. Stats altered accordingly.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)15:04 No.15287182
    If there are Anti-Fairies... Are there Anti-Great Fairies?

    Also, monsters are looking good (we need a few more aquatic ones for water dungeons though), but I think what needs the most work now is defining some tools and magic items. These are going to be a huge part of the game and we haven't really stated much more than weapons.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)15:09 No.15287238
    Also added this to be elaborated upon later:

    >Boss Design

    >One of the most memorable things of any Zelda game is the boss battles. They are part combat, and part puzzle. In a team game, they must force both cooperation as a group and handling independent threats. A good boss should be chosen to fit the theme of the dungeon as well as the overall adventure. You must carefully consider what each party member is capable of so as to create an encounter that challenges them all, but also allows each of them to feel as though they contributed to the outcome in some meaningful way. When designing a boss encounter it is also wise to consider what items the characters discovered within the dungeon and how you can incorporate all of them into the puzzle of exposing the boss's vulnerabilities. A very important consideration is the arena of the battle itself. The environment may be the bigger danger than the boss itself, it may give the boss a distinct advantage or tools to exploit, or the it may be the key to its undoing through clever usage of nearby mechanisms or features.

    >(More to come later, including sample bosses.)
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)15:10 No.15287257
    I was about to post these for consideration

    -Low Threat-
    White Bubble / Undead / ♥½ / Mass 1 / Move 0 (Fly 6)
    Bite (Melee 1): 4k3, ¼
    Defense: 4k3

    -Moderate Threat-
    Red Bubble (Fire Bubble) / Undead / ♥½ / Mass 1 / Move 0 (Fly 6)
    Bite (Melee 1): 5k4, ½ (Fire)
    Defense: 4k3
    Special: Ignite- The Bubble sets fire to flammable objects it touches

    Blue Bubble (Curse Bubble) / Undead / ♥½ / Mass 1 / Move 0 (Fly 6)
    Bite (Melee 1): 5k4, 0H, Jinx
    Defense: 4k3
    Special: Jinx- When the bubble hits an enemy with it's bite attack, the enemy is Jinxed and cannot take any actions other than moving until the end of it's next turn.

    ...Power makes a bit more sense. 1/4H damage sem okay?
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)15:11 No.15287262
    there should be a technique that changes it to wisdom to allow monk-like characters with a lot of martial arts training to be viable.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)15:18 No.15287333
    Bubbles are updated accordingly.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)15:35 No.15287488
    Should they also have wind vulnerability? Deku leaf and all that.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)15:41 No.15287543
    I proppose the following racial techs:

    Fin blades mastery (Passive)

    * Requirements: Zora
    * XP Cost: ?

    This technique allows the Zora to use their fins as natural Blades wisdom/melee and wisdom/ranged 5 range weapons with a 1/2 H dmg. Launched fins automatically return, but this takes up one of the Zora's actions.

    Fire Fist Training (Passive)

    * Requirements: Goron
    * XP Cost: ?

    This technique allows the goron to threat his unarmed attacks as a melee/power weapon which deals 3/4 H fire dmg.

    This tech could make majoras mask goron and zora characters actually doable without having to restrict the entire race to these styles of charcters.

    Also, we should let PCs take one low cost techs at the time of their creation.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)15:50 No.15287645
    So, looking at items now there are a few things we should know about each:

    In addition, some items are more valuable than others. There are several classes of magic items and tools, such as:
    Currencies (Rupees, Medallions, Writs, etc.)
    Travel Gear (Maps, Compasses, and Keys)
    Containers (Sacks, Bags, Pouches, and Bottles)
    Potions (Healing, Explosive, Poisons, Buffing, and Quest Related)
    Weapons (Bows, Hammers, Boomerangs, etc.)
    Armors (Iron Boots, Power Bracelet, Magic Tunic, etc.)
    Exotic Tools (Hookshot, etc.)
    Instruments (Wind, Reed, Brass, Percussion, and String)
    Transportation (Boats, Horses, Other animals)
    Magic Item (Lens of Truth, Masks, Medallions, Tomes, Canes, and Rods)

    And I'm sure there are others.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)15:57 No.15287717
    i agree, one low cost tech at character creation makes a lot of concepts more doable right from the beginning.

    Also, it seems like techs and skills are going to be the main method of character advancement. Given that, it makes sense that most techniques should have a relatively low cost. Probably 2 points for low cost ones, and no higher than 8 for the most expensive. Thoughts?
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)16:19 No.15287968
    We really need a number for exp/session before we can put out stuff like that.
    If you get 5 exp per session you can buy two techniques, if you get 10 you can buy five...
    So yeah. We need an idea of scale before making out the costs of virtues, attributes, skills and techniques.

    ALSO! The character sheet needs a lot of space for techniques. Perhaps on the back of the paper?

    >Graphs, ithisto
    yeah we need graphs to decide prices
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)16:20 No.15287977
    Sounds good. Techniques are going to stand between rupees and new items in terms of their reward value. Players might buy a new technique once every session.

    The fire damage and the boomerang effects should be seperate techniques, I think.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)17:23 No.15288634
    What about

    Prereq: Melee 3
    XP Cost- Low
    Passive technique
    Your unarmed attacks do 1/2H damage instead of 1/4H. In addition, you can use Power, Wisdom, or Courage as your virtue when making unarmed attacks.

    Goron Might
    Prereq: Goron, Brawler technique
    XP Cost- moderate
    Passive technique.
    Your unarmed attacks do 3/4H damage, and you can choose to do fire damage

    Bladed fins
    Prereq: Zora, Brawler technique
    XP Cost- moderate
    Passive Technique/ Double Action
    Your unarmed attacks gain the Edged property. In addition, as a Single Action you can make a Ranged/Wisdom attack using the damage of your unarmed attack. It takes another Single action to retrieve your fins, and you cannot attack until your fins return.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)17:37 No.15288786
    Maybe you should tack an MP cost onto the fire effect and boomerang thing.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)17:52 No.15288964
    And a range.
    Maybe 10m for the boomerang?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)17:53 No.15288980

    Sure, does 2MP for each and 10 spaces for the boomerang work?
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)17:58 No.15289026

    Definitely not to the mp idea, if we are to go and follow combat namefag propposal we would be spending 2 techs just to be able to make those attacks having to use mp to be able to use em would suck.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)18:00 No.15289044
    Sure why not.

    So I've been considering playtesting this. Would you say that it is in a playable state as is? Oh, and how big should the average room in a dungeon be?
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)18:01 No.15289056
    That's MP to do Fire damage and throw the fins.
    Not the whole 3/4 damage and Edged thing.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/16/11(Thu)18:04 No.15289088
         File1308261891.png-(26 KB, 720x528, tiley.png)
    26 KB
    It's arguably playable. We don't have techniques in yet or character advancement, but starting characters should be able to fight monsters with the basic weapons avaliable.

    As for room size, you could look at this map from one of the Gameboy games as a reference.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)18:23 No.15289294
    ...So maybe I could try making a simple oneshot thingy? One session, one dungeon, rescue princess in the end. Stuff like that. No worries about Techniques or Experience.

    Starting with a Forest Dungeon, since no-one gets any specific advantage or disadvantage there, and having minimal threat monsters.
    What would a boss fight be like in the first dungeon?

    Also the Gameboy map rooms are 13x9. I think that's just because that's all that fits on a Gameboy screen.
    But yeah. 117 m^2. So I'll try to keep the average size around a hundred square meters.
    >Are we still using one meter squares, or did that change?
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)19:10 No.15289757
    >...So maybe I could try making a simple oneshot thingy?
    Of course! We'd love to hear how it goes and get some good feedback.

    What would a boss fight be like in the first dungeon?
    Since you are going forest that gives you a wide variety of themes. Bats, Insects, Plants, Oozes the Wind, Ghosts, or even a dilapidated Kingdom turned to Undead all could fit the theme in a Lost Woods type area.

    >Also the Gameboy map rooms are 13x9.
    Looks about right, but remember that this was a constriction of the gameboy. Though this is a good base size you don't have to be limited. Later zelda's all like to have large "hub-rooms" much bigger than the if you recall.

    >Are we still using one meter squares, or did that change?
    Meter is about the right size and practically all non-boss enemies fit in a meter square so that seems like the best idea.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)19:20 No.15289844
    A single buffed Stalfos? Maybe Skull-kids? That jungle-warrior thing? Maybe even an oversized Deku Baka (carnivorous plant)? Hell, you could have something like an evil version of the Deku Tree, or just more aggressive if you're playing a less than virtuous party
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)19:25 No.15289894
    Another thing I forgot to mention: Design the puzzle of the boss around what your players choose. Don't make anything final until you know:
    1)What abilities each character has.
    2)What the dungeon items are.
    Once you have these finalized you can create a battle fun for everyone that gets to showcase each person's new item as well as there innate abilities.

    Also, a stalfos might end them at low levels unless you give them a gimmick. Like letting light in to stun it or knocking down massive deku nuts from the tree it guards to flash-stun it via slingshot.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)19:49 No.15290091
    >We really need a number for exp/session before we can put out stuff like that

    What about this idea from earlier in the thread?

    XP is variable, but averages out to somewhere between 3 and 5 XP per session.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)19:54 No.15290138
    Thread is autosaging, give me a moment to whip up a new one.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)19:56 No.15290149
    Link it here when you do.
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)19:57 No.15290156
    this thread has been archived, right?
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)19:58 No.15290162
    if XP runs from 3-5 a session then having techniques cost between 2 and 8 makes sense
    >> Anonymous 06/16/11(Thu)20:07 No.15290268
    New thread is here!

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