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    378 KB Binary Warfare Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)00:46 No.14687423  
    >Previous thread: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/14641073/

    Alright now, time to get this thread underway.

    >What is Binary Warfare?

    Binary Warfare is a Wargame. Sort of.

    The idea started with http://www.dystopia-game.com/. a friends asked me to play it with him, and although I had no real interest in the game itself, the concept of a war-game with a secondary battlefield intrigued me.

    The abstract representations that are a given in tabletop games also gives a lot of room to play with the concept.

    In the last thread, there was a lot of talk on fluff. I admit that I still know little of what needs to be done to make this a reality.

    I am however taking the tentative first steps with crunch.

    On that note, based off of how integral terrain is going to be for the game, it seems clear what direction this game is going to go in.

    I'm in the process of creating an entirely separate sub-system for battlefield creation that will rival the army building in both complexity and importance.

    I'll outline what I have so far, and take any questions and/or comments that people might want to bring up.
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)00:56 No.14687532

    Since the entire game is built around an attack/defend scenario based around an area more or less owned by the defending faction, it makes sense that they get to make some calls as far as how the base is set up.

    In order to keep the game balanced, I'm currently looking at the set-up as thus:

    There are two types of points used to set up a game: UP (Unit Points) and BP (Base Points). The former used to create and customize your team, with the latter being used to create your battlefeild.

    For the most part the spread will look like this: Player one defending, Player two attacking.

    >Player One:
    100 UP 100BP.

    >Player Two:
    125-150 UP, 0BP.

    There would of course be some scenarios like 'what if two mobile bases/cargo transports connected and started boarding each other.

    Point spread would then look like:

    >Player One:
    100UP, 100BP.

    >Player Two:
    100UP, 100BP.

    My only concern is whether or not I should divide the two point totals.

    On the one hand, it would keep the defender from just making an empty field with a lot of gun toting manics on either end, while on the other it limits customization options.

    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)01:00 No.14687580
    Wow, /tg/ is moving fast today.

    I'll give this another bump or two to see if anybody is interested.
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)01:14 No.14687745
    Was today a bad day for this or something?

    I had a bunch of people get excited the last time I posted.
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)01:38 No.14687969
    I'll bump with some content.

    Crunch rules are still rather light at the moment, where they exist at all.

    There are however a few points I've hit upon.

    First: Dice.

    I intend to use a d10 based dicepool system for resolution mechanics. The reasons for this are threefold:

    >1. They have (in my opinion) a better probability spread than six sided dice.

    >2. They allow to very easily incorporate any sort of event that uses a percentile.

    >3. I have a massive raging hard-on for dicepools. Not even going to hide it.

    Second: Health.

    Health will come in three flavors for the real world: Wounds, Armor, and Shields.

    Wounds: The actual 'HP' at the core. These are comparatively have to get to, and taking hits to them will slightly decrease your stats. Wounds are a set number for each unit, and cannot be modified.

    Armor: Acts as a secondary life-bar protecting the Wounds. Must either destroy it, or hit it with a penetrating shot in order to hit the wounds. In the case of a penetrating shot, half damage goes to armor. Armor is one of several things about a unit that can be upgraded by spending more points. Can be 'healed' either automatically in some cases, or as an action by an appropriate character.

    Shields: Only available to some units, shields stop a certain amount of damage per round. if the threshold is 15, 15 points must be dealt before the shield goes down. After the shield is down, damage is dealt normally. The shield comes back every round. Shield thresholds cannot be upgraded.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)02:09 No.14688273
    is OP still here? been looking out for the next thread errday since the last one
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)02:18 No.14688383
         File1303539523.png-(1.07 MB, 971x564, Screenshot-1.png)
    1.07 MB
    was going to suggest a d6 system so you wouldn't need special scatter dice for AoE. basically you just roll 2d6 to see what direction it deviates where the number represents a hand position on a clock face (12 o'clock position is always initial direction of attack). you could even print a clock face on your AoE templates
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)02:27 No.14688470
    I guess OP is gone
    oh well. at least I know you're still working on it
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)02:45 No.14688678
    Left, now I'm back.


    Be awesome if this were true.

    I tried to do this thread yesterday, but there was nothing.

    Thanks for the support.


    >AoE scatter dice

    Having never worked on a Wargame before, I have no idea how important this may or may not be.

    It would be fairly easy to change the ratio to fit a percentile ratio for that.

    I actually have no idea what this would be used for.


    Left, but I'm back. Feel free to post questions and comments.
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)03:25 No.14689072
    Right then, I'm going to dump content until either somebody who cares shows up, or somebody tells me to shut up.

    Or a Mod bans me for seemingly no reason, which I suppose has happened in the past.


    Having spoken of defense, I'll now take a moment to speak on the other aspects of combat.

    Each type of action including: taking cover, attempting to 'heal' a squaddie, shooting, stabbing, hacking, jacking, etc. Has a stat attached to it.

    Current list of stats:

    Ballistics, melee, repair, stealth, tactics, subterfuge, awareness, and morale.

    Each stat represents a competency rating. Each point gives you an additional die in the dicepool when rolling for a particular thing, for example.

    Applied use of these stats are simple. You take the base competency rating, add the relevant modifiers, and roll. Here is an example scenario:

    >Player one is playing the Illuminati faction, while Player two is playing The Collective.

    On his turn, Player one has one of his units, A 'Knight Errant' move into a new room, attempting to ascertain the nature of the intruders.

    Player two has two combat drones in the room. Player two also has the Hero (working title) unit Xarn on the field.

    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)03:30 No.14689114

    Since it is player one's turn, he makes an awareness test. Since the Knight Errant's awareness is 2, and he has a special motion detecting visor in his helmet that gives a plus one bonus, he has a total of three dice.

    Rolling, he only gets one hit- not enough to notice the two Drones.

    On his turn Player Two takes advantage of Xarn's command ability 'Glory of the Swarm' giving each unit on his side a tactics rating bonus equal to the number of active units on his side.

    This gives the Drones an impressive tactics of 8.

    They decide to use the 'coordinated fire' ability to combine their dicepools in an attack against the Knight Errant.

    'Coordinated fire' allows the unit with the lower tactics rating to add more dice to the higher unit's ballistics dicepool up to their tactics rating.

    In this case, both units has the identical ballistics rating of 4, with a -1 to each because their guns are of an inferior quality. This allows a total of 6 dice to be rolled in the attack against the Knight Errant.

    The Knight Errant is crouched behind a wall waiting for some of his squad to catch up. Since he is behind partial cover, he gets a temporary shield bonus against the drones attack equal to one half his tactics rating (4) rounded down. Normally he would also get to subtract one die from their attack pool for being behind partial cover, but this is a Surprise Attack.

    With the Six dice scoring four hits, the Knight Errant takes two points of damage, the other two having been stopped by the shield bonus the cover provided.

    Since he has 8 armor points, he takes no wound damage, instead losing some armor integrity.

    The two drones abandon their hiding places and charge him, attempting to flank.

    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)03:32 No.14689138
    >I actually have no idea what this would be used for.
    grenades, suppressive fire, blind-firing from behind cover, etc.

    >Be awesome if this were true.
    it is true. i must have overlooked the thread yesterday somehow
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)03:37 No.14689194
    what is the maximum stat value and how do you determine target numbers?
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)03:38 No.14689207

    On Player One's turn the Knight Errant stands up and unleashes a full-auto burst on one of the Drones.

    With his Ballistics skill of 5 and the +2 bonus for using a Superior grade assault rifle and the, he rolls 7 dice. He scores five hits, with an addition of two points of damage for the auto. Since the Drone he was targeting only had an armor of 2 and possessed 2 wounds, he scored a rating 2 overkill (more on this later).

    He decides to then retreat back through the door and arm a mine on the way by. Unfortunately, since he has a rifle (and therefore avoided the -1 die for full auto) he has to holster it. This takes the rest of his turn.

    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)03:49 No.14689312

    >What is the maximum stat value.

    There is no 'hard' limit.

    However, there are a couple of things keeping you from an infinite stat boosting.

    Firstly, all basic units (as presented by their [for lack of a better term] codex) have stats lined out. There are two ways to change the numbers: Experience, and Equipment.

    Experience means you basically are paying extra for a unit who has more field experience (note this isn't available for all factions/units). Buying a unit with 'veteran' status allows you to boost stats relevant to the units purpose. A melee skirmisher type can't buy better skills with guns or hacking. Units who have more than one area of expertise can boost multiple areas. That said, it gets exponentially more expensive with each stat you raise above the base in the manner.

    Equipment means exactly what it sounds like.

    However, equipment boosts only go so far: you can only give a stat a boost equal to it's base score. So even if all the bonuses add up to a +12 melee, if your melee is 3, you get no more dice than six. If you lose the equipment involved (like say your sword is knocked from your hands) you lose all relevant bonuses until when/if it's recovered.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)04:08 No.14689521
    i guess the more pertinent question was how are target numbers determined
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)04:12 No.14689565

    Also, please clarify what you mean by 'target numbers'.


    >grenades, suppressive fire, blind-firing from behind cover, etc.

    Ah. I can see some use then. Wouldn't be too hard to adjust for percentile dice.

    >it is true.

    Didn't mean to sound like I was doubting you.

    Nice to know I have a fan.


    Going back to Player Two: He decides to make his Drone fire while continuing to move towards the Knight Errant, hitting with exploding dice, causing a total of 7 damage. Since the Knight Errant has already taken damage knocking him down to six armor, he loses all armor bonuses and takes one wound. The Drone doesn't quite make it close enough to go into a melee when the turn ends.

    On Player One's turn, he moves two more Knight Errant into the hallway outside, clearly drawn by the gunfire. The original (from our perspective) Knight sets the bomb on the door and runs.

    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)04:13 No.14689579

    The Drone chooses to charge at the retreating Knight. He takes the blast, losing his armor and taking one of his two wounds in damage. He activates his Rampage skill to add twice his remaining wounds to his armor score until the end of the next round at the cost of being able to use anything other than an 'unarmed' melee attack.

    He catches up to the wounded Knight and attacks. Since the Drone's melee stat is 5, and it's boosted by both the 'feral claws' upgrade (+2) and the Rampage (+1) against a flatfooted (running away, back turned) target (+1) he gets a staggering 9 dice for this next attack. He gets six hits, and only needed two. Not only is the Knight now dead, he's been brutally dismembered. Having watched a rateing four overkill, the two Knights have to make a morale check at a difficulty four.

    One of the two has only a morale stat of three, so he auto-fails and runs. The other one has Nerves of Steel, halving the difficulty, and allows him to barely pass with his 3 dice. On Player One's turn he calmly lines up the shot at the rampaging Drone with a dicepool of 7, and drops him easily having needed only three hits.

    Having survived a skirmish with the enemy unit, he radios back the information to the squad's commander. Since this 'Hero' has the quality "Tactical Genius" he grants a +1 bonus to all attacks from his side and gives a 'shield' bonus of 1 to all units under his direct command.

    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)04:14 No.14689590


    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)04:22 No.14689656
    >please clarify what you mean by 'target numbers'
    you get a roll a certain number of dice based on your base stat +/- modifiers and then count the number of successes, but what determines which die rolls are successes? how do you determine what each individual die has to roll in order be counted as a success?
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)04:22 No.14689660
    I welcome all questions, comments and criticisms.

    Please, if you have any interest at all just pop in to say 'hi' so I know I'm not rambling to an empty room.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)04:25 No.14689677
    sadly I've been the only other person actually participating in the thread, but I am still here.
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)04:27 No.14689701


    This depends on several things: The faction, the commander, and other influences.

    It averages out to a seven or higher being a hit, with tens 'exploding' and get re-rolled. Tens are always a hit, and always explode.

    Ones are always a miss.

    Theoretically, any number between could go either way depending on the circumstances.

    For instance, if you had a really good commander, were part of the Redemptionist faction, the other guy failed his morale, his commander was dead, and he was physically restrained you would get a 'hit' range of 3-10.
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)04:29 No.14689720

    Invite friends!

    I suppose you could also spam related threads if you were morally depraved or something.

    I wouldn't condone such an action.


    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)04:32 No.14689747
    I see there's no stat for movement. Does every unit share a fixed movement rate? How many/what types of actions does a unit get per turn, and how many times can a unit perform any specific action per turn? Are turns divided into phases in which you are limited to certain types of actions like a movement phase and shooting phase?
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)04:34 No.14689770
    Anyway, back to content bumps.

    As was mentioned in the previous thread, there are four types of action that can be taken in cyberspace.

    Direct conflict between any two beings in cyberspace.

    Doing things to alter the odds or change the way the world works. For instance if you used a 40k game to symbolize the cyberspace, you could HACK to change your avatar from say a guardsman to a Space Marine Terminator. Or do something

    The bigger the change, the more likely it is to have consequences.

    Breaking things that are locked with passwords, or doing something like disabling a security node. Whearas Hacking changes the rules of the system, cracking twists the rules to your advantage.

    >(Name missing)
    This works at the Meta-scale for the cyberspace field: You change things like how fast it's going by 'clocking' it (up or down) or spamming it with useless data.

    This has the most risk because it could cause the system to re-boot in which the best case is you have to start over with some light mental damage from being booted from the system, or a complete meltdown which would be very bad since most of the game is built around complex interactions with the Thing You Just Broke. That's just the beginnings of the Horror-show that a complete meltdown can cause.

    There is however, something else to add to this.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)04:39 No.14689829
    i'd like this question answered ?
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)04:41 No.14689845

    >I see there's no stat for movement.

    Partly derp on my part. Not sure how that would work yet.

    >Does every unit share a fixed movement rate?

    Gonna have to say no. Some units whole thing is going faster than the other guys.

    >How many/what types of actions does a unit get per turn, and how many times can a unit perform any specific action per turn?

    Glad you asked. Have you played one of the first two Fallouts? Remember how the AP (Action Points) worked? You bought actions with the replenishing AP?

    That's what I'm working with right now.

    So in theory, a unit can perform as many actions of whatever kind as it can afford.

    >Are turns divided into phases in which you are limited to certain types of actions like a movement phase and shooting phase?

    Yes and No.

    There are separate turns for the Physical and Virtual worlds.

    Example lifted from the last thread: Circumstances would determine how the local cyberspace works (could go from half real-speed to 4 times real-speed at start).

    The turn order would work like this: Player one being the one on the offense, player two being the defender in this scenario, starting at cyberspace at 2r (twice real-speed)

    1: Physical
    2: Physical
    1: Virtual 1
    2: Virtual 1
    1: Virtual 2
    2: Virtual 2
    1: Physical....

    etc. the physical 'turns' are at the top of every 'round'. If someone doesn't go into cyberspace on their turn, they're excluded from that. If in the physical phase the 'connection' is interrupted, they're not allowed to participate in the virtual phase. If they are jacked in, they can't do anything on the physical turns unless they choose to jack out. You cannot try to jack in or out more than once a round.

    The specifics could change on a case by case basis, but the core of how it works are the same.
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)04:42 No.14689861

    I answered it here: >>14689701

    If some part of this answer is confusing or unsatisfactory, let me know.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)04:43 No.14689868
    he replied here >>14689701
    which I understood to mean that the base target number was 7 +/- modifiers
    glad to see someone else showing an interest
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)04:46 No.14689898

    It would be more accurate to say that it starts with 9-10 being a hit, with bonuses raising that score.

    That would have been a better way to phrase it in the original answer.

    That said, the 'average' is about 7-10.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)04:59 No.14690020
    >starts with 9-10
    >'average' is about 7-10
    can you elaborate on this a bit?
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)05:04 No.14690063

    Right, 9-10 on the ten sided die being used is always a hit.

    10 always explodes the die, allowing a re-roll.

    All armies have universal bonuses (with the exception of the Neo-Anarchists, for obvious reasons). Almost all of them have a +1 to the hits. This brings it to 8-10 hitting.

    Then there are commander bonuses, almost all of whom give a +1 to hits.

    This means that 90% of the time, the hit ratio for a given side is 7-10.

    And yes, hit ratios can vary on each side.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)05:06 No.14690088
    ah, okay
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)05:09 No.14690121
    you mentioned earlier that there will likely be a point-buy system for setting the terrain that will be just as complex and integral to the game as the point-buy for units. do you have any details on this yet?
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)05:16 No.14690180

    >you mentioned earlier that there will likely be a point-buy system for setting the terrain that will be just as complex and integral to the game as the point-buy for units.


    No, it's pretty much a necessity for the way the game is structured.

    I just don't know how to make it work yet.

    >do you have any details on this yet?

    Not really, since I still have no idea how it would work.

    I do have something of a wishlist though, with the things you can purchase/modify:

    Building durability
    Security cameras
    Additional access nodes
    Security turrets
    Cyberspace mods.
    Something to do with calling re-enforcements.

    This whole thing is very much a work in progress.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)05:20 No.14690205
    all the things you listed are pretty much what I was imagining
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)05:22 No.14690224
    will the cyberspace terrain be a 1-1 replica of the physical terrain?
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)05:28 No.14690279

    Right, before I had to take a break from this to answer questions, I was about to get into one of my more important decisions about cyberspace: Junctioned Programs.

    What it means is that you can have lesser AI (and before anyone asks, yes, that does imply greater AI. Which I will not talk about right now) accompanying you. The thing is that they aren't smart enough to act on their own, other than to carry out simple tasks.

    One of the stats I forgot to mention involves computer use, and is currently lacking a name.

    Anyway, one of it's uses is to determine what the maximum capacity of these 'helper programs' is for them.

    Each one must be tied at creation to one of the four uses for cyberspace.

    these can be used to either boost thier master's own skill in that department, or set to an automated task pertaining to their function. For instance, a cracker could do something like break into a security camera and/or turret and redirect it to it's masters control either directly (by re-directing the data-stream to them) or indirectly (by possessing it and following it's master's instructions).
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)05:35 No.14690341
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    This is looking a lot less like a wargame and more like a squad tactical game- THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. I definitely like the idea of a cyberpunk tactical game with a dual battlefield (kind of like how Shadowrun has RL/Matrix/Astral), but I'm still not exactly sure what you're going for here.
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)05:36 No.14690345

    Yeah. There are several hurdles to cross in the creation here: the fact that I don't know how much a said modification should cost, the fact that I have no idea how many points should go into it, whether or not I should have this system and the units system share a point-pool, and the fact that they can DOWNGRADE the basic assumed structure for more points.

    *sigh* Times are tough.


    It certainly can be.

    Or you can mix it up, make it bigger and/or smaller.

    Or you can replace it with another game entirely using metaphorical stand-ins for the different aspects of cyberspace.

    I know that with the way Warhammer (40k, not sure about fantasy) treats squads and my game treats AI helpers/divers, it would be fairly easy to work in.

    Cyberspace doesn't have to conform to anything resembling the rules of the real world. Think about how the Matrix in Shadowrun works as far as things like scale and appearance go, and you'll be on better footing to understand cyberspace in this game.
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)05:42 No.14690389

    >This is looking a lot less like a wargame and more like a squad tactical game

    To be fair, given how completely fucked up cyberspace can be, it's hard to classify it as either.

    That said, it's debatably closer to the latter category.


    I'd say that was a matter of opinion, but it's good to know yours swings in my favor.

    >I definitely like the idea of a cyberpunk tactical game with a dual battlefield

    Did you catch the fact that the two battlefields move at different speeds? because they totally move at different speeds.

    >(kind of like how Shadowrun has RL/Matrix/Astral)

    This is not an entirely inaccurate comparison.

    >but I'm still not exactly sure what you're going for here.


    Right up until this bit, I felt like we were totally on the same page.

    Care to explain what parts you don't 'get'?
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)05:47 No.14690430
    this is like using agent programs in the matrix in shadowrun, amirite?
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)05:49 No.14690456

    I'd have to look up the relevant rules in Shadowrun to be sure.

    I'm going to throw out a tentative 'yes', it is sort of like that.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)05:55 No.14690506
    >Agents are semi-autonomous programs capable of using oth-
    er programs. Regular Matrix users employ agents as assistants or
    search-bots, while hackers also use them as hacking aides, decoys,
    watchdogs, or even weapons platforms. Agents exist indepen-
    dently of the user in the Matrix, and are the equivalent of Matrix
    drones. They are capable of piloting themselves to a degree and
    can comprehend complex orders.
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)05:59 No.14690538

    Well then yes.

    That's more or less exactly what they do.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)06:08 No.14690607
    will it be possible to set a lesser AI to a task and then exit cyberspace leaving the lesser AI to act independently in cyberspace?
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)06:10 No.14690616


    It depends?

    I haven't thought it out that far yet. Current plans say they go dormant.
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)06:11 No.14690622

    The hell did my name go?
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)06:12 No.14690630
    I was thinking like say you have an AI take control of a turret and then you leave cyberspace but the AI continues controlling the turret
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)06:20 No.14690692

    Then no.

    The idea is that they act as an extension of your character, they can't and don't operate THAT independently.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)06:38 No.14690798
    setting the terrain/troop placement
    does just the defending player set the terrain, or do players take turns setting terrain pieces? once terrain is set how do you go about placing troops?
    >> Anonymous 04/23/11(Sat)06:41 No.14690808

    The defending player would be building the terrain, and would have at least one entry point from 'the outside'. Troop placement would more or less be the attackers there and the defenders wherever the hell he wants them.

    Remember though, you could in theory start the round by MAKING an entry-point Kool-Aid man style if you wanted/needed to.
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)06:42 No.14690815

    Fucking A. My name keeps going away.
    >> Binary Warfare 04/23/11(Sat)06:49 No.14690843
    Right. It's late/early enough that I want to go to bed.

    Since 4chan's kinda dead at the moment I'm fairly certain I'm not going to miss anything ground-breaking.

    Be sure to post any thoughts and questions you might have, I'll check the archive before the next thread like usual.

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