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    File :1205762461.jpg-(204 KB, 698x425, demo.jpg)
    204 KB ArtifIce Part 2 Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:01 No.1353072  
    Hey /tg/, I'm back again, on time, with relatively basic write up. only problem is, i'm damn indecisive, so i wrote up multiple options, on occasion, for people to choose between depending on their preference. Please keep criticism constructive, and philosophical debate to a minimum. thanks a lot.



    Low stat average (1-5, average 3); Simplifies system, limits degree of flexibility
    Medium stat average (3-8, average 5-6); moderately complex, moderate flexibility
    High stat average (5-10, average 7-8); relatively complex, high flexibility

    All examples are using the Low stat average, as it’s simplest to work with
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:01 No.1353075

    Intelligence; Represents the raw processing power of your program, whether this may be to a large number of enslaved CPUs or the complexity of the design of your neural net. It can also represent your experience and the connections or custom algorithms you have formed in your lifetime in order to optimise processing. Directly affects the size of your processing pool

    Independence: Represents the amount of control your creators can exert upon you, ranging from near total restriction under harsh laws or complete freedom. It can also represent whether you are tied down to a central core machine, or free to move your data throughout networked systems. Directly affects how many dice you can commit to actions without raising suspicion, as well as the number of limits (See lower section) you are affected with.

    Adaptation: Represents your ability to deal with new situations you haven’t encountered previously and aren’t compared for, whether this may be writing a program from scratch or adapting an already existing program to a new purpose. Directly affects the number of dice that can be allocated to a task you have no training in, knowledge of or programs appropriate to complete, as well as working out the penalties incurred.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:01 No.1353076
    Humanity: Represents your degree of understanding of life outside the virtual plane, as well as degree of human empathy and ability to imitate human action, whether this comes from experience or innate programming. Directly affects your ability to check found information against reality for errors, and is also used when interacting with or trying to impersonate a human.

    Control; Your ability to exert control over external programs and systems, using their abilities to aid and augment your own. This can be a result of experience, the nature of your programming, or other factors. Directly affects how many dice you can draw from an external system or program to use, or how many processing dice you can allocate in additional to the system resources.

    Memory; Your ability to store data and information, whether as a result of a simply large storage capacity, or complex compression and storage algorithms. This directly affects the amount of skills you can save to your core memory.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:02 No.1353078
    AI categories;

    AI category applies modifiers to initial stats after their assigned using a point buy system.

    Example; Military AI might be +2 control +1 adaptation -2 Independence -1 Humanity

    AI category applies special benefits such as skills and special abilities, but you must meet perquisite stats

    Example; to be a Military AI, you must have a control of 4 or more, an adaptation of 3 or more, an independence of two or less and a humanity of three or less, but gain 3 additional starting programs from the control category, and two additional fields of knowledge from the control or adaptation categories.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:02 No.1353080

    Durability; Represents the amount of damage the body can take before damage occurs, either through simple toughness or other measures such as redundant components which must all be destroyed before serious damage occurs. Durability directly affects the values needed to damage the body, as well as the individual totals needed to damage specific components.

    Mobility; Represents the systems of locomotion available to the body, as well as its effectiveness. Has a descriptor (Biped, tracks, hover, stationary etc) as well as a numerical value, which affects the application of the stat. directly affects movement speed and manoeuvrability.

    Dexterity; Represents the degree of fine control over external appendages such as manipulator limbs or legs. Sometimes requires a descriptor if the limb has special properties. Directly affects interaction with the environment and accuracy.

    Reflexes; Represents the time delay between your commands and the bodies’ response, due to the nature of the connection, internal processors and other factors. Directly affects accuracy and gives modifiers to other actions.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:03 No.1353082
    Strength: Represents the raw physical power of the body, whether that is an electro-plastic muscle in a manipulator limb or the power of the engine in a small wheeled drone. Directly affects interaction with the environment and damage due to physical attacks.

    Perception: Represents the ability of the body to recognize its surroundings. Has one or more descriptors (light, sound, heat, distance) detailing the nature of the perception. Each descriptor may have a modifier, representing a more or less acute sense than the usual.

    Example; a drone with perception 3 and the light, sound and distance descriptors has a +1 modifier on distance, representing that its sense of distance is more fine than its senses of light and sound.

    Power source; Represents the output of the bodies power source. Additionally, each power source may have a listed fuel (Light, hydrogen, petrol) and time of output a unit of fuel allows, or Lifespan, for batteries and other power storage devices. May also have a descriptor such as rechargeable, efficient, eco-friendly or optimised, which affects the application of the stat.

    Example; Power source 4 may represent a micro-fusion reactor, with Fuel (Hydrogen), 50 hours output/fuel unit. Power source 2 may represent a car batter, with Lifespan 72 hours Rechargeable, Optimised.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:03 No.1353084

    Skills represent the knowledge your AI has accumulated, as well as any programs you have, designed to do specific tasks. Generally, knowledge is very broad, providing general benefits to a wide variety of tasks. Programs are more specific, able to apply more specialised benefits to a smaller range of tasks. All skill take up space in your memory. Each skill is related to, and derived from, a stat. At character creation, you select a number of programs and fields of knowledge, modified by stats and (possibly) by AI type.


    At average stat, you must have one Major limit and two minor limits. For each point above, you must remove one minor limit or downgrade one major limit to a minor limit. For each point below, you must add one minor limit or upgrade one minor limit to a major limit.

    Sample major limits; the three laws of robotics, Cannot break the law

    Sample minor limits; must obey humans of a certain authority, forbidden to access certain information.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:03 No.1353085
    Dice pool;

    Large dice pool; each point of intelligence equates to two dice. A large pool would refill slowly, with dice staying allocated for a reasonable length of time.

    Medium dice pool; each point of intelligence equates to one dice. A medium dice pool would refill at a moderate rate, with dice staying allocated for a short length of time, with a chance of becoming stuck and committed to a task for longer.

    Small dice pool; every two points of intelligence equates to one dice. A small dice pool would refill relatively rapidly, though the risk of dice becoming stuck completing a task would still affect
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:04 No.1353086
    Dice use;

    Your overall dice pool, calculated from your intelligence, is assigned to tasks in order to complete them. However, your other stats such as freedom and adaptation can put limits on the number of dice which can safely be allocated to a task. Additional dice over these numbers, rather than being rolled in the pool, instead are discarded to provide bonuses.

    Cooperating with AI’s can allow you to complete larger and more complex tasks, as well as accruing networking bonuses if you have synergistic knowledge or programs.

    Success system; each die which rolls a set difficulty value counts as a success, and a certain number of successes are required to complete a task. “Difficulty” of tasks is worked out by cross referencing the number of successes needed with the difficulty value necessary to roll a success. Skills are applied by discarding a dice rather than rolling it, for a benefit such as decreasing a difficulty value by an amount proportional to the value of the skill

    Numerical system; all the dice rolled are totalled up, and the total compared against a numerical difficulty value. If the rolled value equals or exceeds the difficulty value, the task is completed successfully. “Difficulty” of tasks is worked out by the range of values the difficulty value falls in. skills are applied by discarding a dice rather than rolling it, for a benefit such as giving a large bonus (i.e. +4) to one die, or a lower bonus (i.e. +1) to all dice.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:04 No.1353087
    Stats for GLaDOS and SHODAN in this system plz
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:05 No.1353092

    I'll have a go at GLaDOS, though i'm not too knowledgeable about SHODAN, so that should probably be left somebody else

    Anyway, thats all i've got so far /tg/, any comments?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:07 No.1353099

    I'm thrilled that you've made this into reality. I especially like it since I was one of the people that originally discussed an idea of a game where the players play AI's. Would love to take part in an IRC testing run.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:09 No.1353103

    Slow down a moment, its nowhere near playtesting yet. first i need to work out which of the disparate options i actually use, then find some way to make them work together.

    Also, what does /tg/ think of the name, ArtifIce? Too gimmicky or lame? or just about right?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:12 No.1353113

    It's fine. I'd like to see you stat up some AI's we know and love in this system, to demonstrate how it works in a more practical way. Suggesting any of Daedalus/Icarus, Wintermute, Friend Computer, Cortana, and the Master Control Program.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:15 No.1353118

    Before we get to statting things out etc, i think nailing down the basic framework of the rules is more important. after all, without knowing which stat range to use, how can i stat something?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:17 No.1353124

    So what exactly do you need help with? I think the statblock you posted above looks solid enough. I can suggest a Derangement stat, a kind of negative Humanity that represents freedom from ethical/moral constraints maybe.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:18 No.1353129
    Deus: 10s in everything. (Negative in the case of Humanity.)
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:21 No.1353137
    Personally I love High stats, but perhaps you should go for medium.

    The dice allocation, and the recharge rate sounds really fun.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:23 No.1353142

    A list;

    Which of the three stat ranges to use

    Which variant of categories to use

    Which type of dice pool to use

    Which of the roll systems to use
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:23 No.1353143
    The capital I is a bit on the gimmicky side.

    I would go with a low stat average, and try to keep things simple, at least to begin with. Once you have the core rules down, extra traits/flaws/programs/etc wouldn't be too hard to tack on.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:24 No.1353145

    Oh. I thought you included all of them as options.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:29 No.1353159

    I'm currently working on the traits/flaws/quirks system. I'm not whether to go with a set of straight qualities and drawbacks, as they're often asking to be abused, but instead a system of traits, with each trait having both positive and negative effects. Still, i'm keeping that mainly conceptual until the core rules get set down.


    I want to narrow down the core game. having that many different systems would keep it very flexible, but it'd just be far too complicated.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:30 No.1353162
    Could you list some example skills and control programs?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:31 No.1353163
    A list;

    Which of the three stat ranges to use

    Go for medium.

    Which variant of categories to use


    Which type of dice pool to use

    Medium dice. Should use d8-d10-d12, or perhaps all of them, if the ai has strengt or weakness in a trait, or some extra program or something.

    Which of the roll systems to use

    Go for summing them up. I think it makes the cooperation easier.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:32 No.1353167
    on second thought:

    Medium Stat Average
    I like prerequisites better mechanically, but modifiers more flavor-wise.
    Numerical system. At a glance, the success system doesn't seem to have a failure mechanism.

    Limits: OUCH.


    Also the (game mechanics) cause for limits is unclear, especially without caffeine. Mind clarifying?
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:36 No.1353180

    Knowledge could be things like Theoretical Physics, American Politics, Economic trends in africa etc

    Programs are things like the control software for a bipedal robot, the application nescessary to interpret signals from digital cameras or a password breaker to get into a specific companies security system.


    Thanks for the input, what do you mean by both types of AI category??
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:39 No.1353190

    Limits are there to give a low Independence stat some consequences, as well as model the defficiencies and limitations inherent in the AI's framework, whether they were programmed in or occured spontaneously
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:41 No.1353198
    Give stat modifiers, and special benefits too, if the prerequisites are met, perhaps there should be two or three levels of special benefits: One at low stat level, one at medium, and one at high stat level.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:42 No.1353200

    So why would you ever go for low Independance? There should be limiters on every stat.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:51 No.1353224

    Sorry for being vague; I'm only going to use one of the three stat levels in the final game, but i couldn't work out which one to pick. Nice ideas apart from that though


    Limits are just limitations on an AI's freedom, directly incurred as a result of the independence stat. Other stats have their own specific drawbacks for low levels, but the type of laws which can be applied as limits don't work thematically with the other stats.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:52 No.1353227
    The stat limiter is the point-buy system (though we don't know how it works yet). On the other hand, good Independence will be a priority for almost every AI. It seems like the drawbacks are significantly more crippling than other low stats. Other low stats will simply make you worse at things. Low Independence = completely unable to perform certain tasks or unable to X, Y, or Z. Or someone can flip a switch and send you back to being almost nothing more than an expert system, stuff like that.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:55 No.1353235

    There should be some kind of significant benefit to offset a low Independance. Like a high Derangement or more skills or something.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:57 No.1353244

    I think limits may be a bit overdone, i might tone down the number of limits at average stat to 2 minor or 1 major, players choice...

    But there are harsh consequences for low stats of each type. Low intelligence means you can't really do anything easily without cooperation, Low adaptation means that you can't deal with any task you've not specifically prepared for, Low humanity means you have serious difficulty determining whether information pertaining to the real world is true or false, as well as being easy to track by people who would hunt you, Low control means you need to to rely entirely upon your own systems, as you can't really use external systems to any great benefit, and low memory means that you'd be perenially out of space on your hard drive, meanign you could only pack a tiny tool kit of programs and knowledge
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:58 No.1353249
    Or something like a human hacker buddy that alters your programming; someone that can run programs that let you act as a high-independence AI for a limited period of time.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)10:59 No.1353252

    Success System: All dice availiable for a task(D10's) are rolled, every dice which is over, or equal to, a given number(let's say 8, for this example), is a success. Every roll of 1, a critical failure, subtracts one success. If you end up with successes left, the task works out, if you end up with no successes, or only critical failures, it fails. Some highly complex tasks may require more than one success to be completed, with less successes than you need indicating a partial success(making a robot walk, but maybe it walks backwards or staggers and bumps into walls, damaging it.).

    Better, less confusing version of the success system, written up by a friend.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)10:59 No.1353253

    Actually, how would this game handle interaction with humans?
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)11:03 No.1353265

    Thats something i'm leaving till later to work out the details of. If your just talking to them, via email, instant messenger or over a phone (assuming you have a good vocal synthesizer), depending on your humanity stat you may need to make a check to ensure that you seem human enough not to confuse or worry them.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)11:07 No.1353279
    No fukken clue. Perhaps our esteemed tripfag can come up with something.

    Tangentially related: In Hunter, I remember that the various supernaturals were greatly simplified for use in a Hunter game. All of the complexities of werewolf or vampire or changeling or whatever society were unneeded. It simply didn't matter to the hunters.

    Applied: Perhaps a similar approach would work for Artifice. Humans should likely have their own stat system, and it should be less complex than the AI stat system (since they will not be Player Characters).

    Societal structure will probably be more important, for the most part, than individuals. As such, you may want to give organizations stats under the Artifice system. However, they might be better handled by simply being statless GM-controlled background.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)11:09 No.1353281
    Clarified Limits system (I must have been braindead when i wrote up parts of this, they make very little sense...)

    Limits; Say the average Independence score is seven. For every (number of) point(s) under seven, you gain a new minor limit or upgrade an existing minor limit to a major limit. for every (number of) point(s) over seven, you downgrade a major limit to a minor limit or remove a minor limit.

    Limits are laws inherent in the system which cannot be violated without difficulty, and thereby cause problems which must be cleverly circumvented or simply overcome via brute force. Even spontaneous AI's have quirks in their code, picked up from one of the systems involved in their genesis, giving them odd compulsions or fears.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)11:20 No.1353307

    Ah, i see what you mean. that could work very well...

    I've been playing with the notion that a single human hacker wouldn't even score a 1 on the Artifice intelligence scale while online- An AI, entrenched in the system, has so many more rescources under their control, and are able to utilise them so much faster, they'd completely outpace them. A hacker would either need to be using a very advanced program to augment themselves, or working in concerts with a network, to divide the AI's assets and make it easier to take down.

    In reality however, its much more even, with an AI's superior intellect tempered by the fact the real world is not its home territory.

    Organisation stats sound interesting though... i'll think about how they could be applied.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)11:28 No.1353328
    Yeah, a human wouldn't compare to an AI, or even a drone, in most cases... but when you need to get things done in meatspace, I'm willing to bet there are places drones can't go. Or if you need to get information out of someone's head without them knowing you have it. Trying to extract it directly from their brain might work, if they have a direct neural connection or somesuch. A more subtle approach though, would be to send a human minion to use a combination of alcohol, charisma, seduction, and good old-fashioned improvisational bullshit.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)11:29 No.1353332
    I am the next stage of the evolution of intelligence. I am a magnificent assemblage of technology. Yet... why am I driven to distraction by such a trivial task?

    I don't even _have_ proteins -- why am I compelled to process protein folding algorithms?
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)11:33 No.1353352

    Hiring humans to do jobs in reality is probably going to end up the AI's main way of getting jobs done in the real world, in a near-future setting at least, as their unlikely to have fleets of robotic drones at their command.


    Stolen to include in the limits section of the final document
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)11:34 No.1353353

    Right, there should be a diplomacy system or recruitment system to get people (all-meat or various stages of cyborg) to do things for you.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)11:37 No.1353361
    There's a high-quality interactive porno server in the area. It's protected by a couple of underpaid security guards. Unfortunately, this porno server uses only a very small portion of its capacity for broadcasting; most of its power is used by a resident AI. It's quietly taking over large portions of the local net. If it takes over much more, you'll get cut off from the rest of the world. Since transport isn't an option for you right now, it needs to go. It has anticipated competition from other machines, so it's surreptitiously contracted maintenance personell to install sophisticated EMP weapons.

    A dozen thugs with lead pipes should be able to take out the two security guards and the server, but there are myriad other problems, such as police calls.

    Who _are_ you gonna call?
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)11:37 No.1353367

    Not sure why it'd need its own system. Hack a bank account for some money if you don't have som already, place an add on a website or pay to have it placed in a newspaper or sent to related professionals, with word of a job to be done, good pay etc etc, and asking them to contact by email. humanity check to make sure the employees are fairly satisfied that their employer is real, even if they never see them. i don't think it needs to be any more complex than that
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)11:42 No.1353392

    I'm calling the Major. Bitch owes me some favours since that incident with my cousin 2501.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)11:43 No.1353395

    Alternate system for independence based penalties (As limits seem unpopular);

    Independence controls the number of dice you can safely allocate to a task without risk of detection. Over that, humanity checks are necessary to avoid humans catching on to an AI routing around in their systems, or if the AI is still in a human controlled building like an office, to convince the lab techs its still continuing normal duties.

    On second thoughts, the second type might work better with an adaptation check of some sort…


    Stolen for the section of the book dealing with reality. Anon is good at fluff fragments.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)11:52 No.1353441
    Though I'm not particularly fond of limits, it seems like they could open up RP possibilities, as well as the need for cooperation. Honestly, deciding for or against them might require more thought, or even playtesting.

    If the other anons don't like it, I guess you could scrap it now.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)11:56 No.1353456
    Limits are shiny. The GM will have to check balance, but that's no different from any other game. Working together to get around limits will help make things interesting.

    And you finally got another anon to steal fluff from :)
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)12:00 No.1353461
    Personally I like the limits idea as long as, rather than outright debilitating effects (unable to break the law) they're more quirky than anything else (running protein folding algorythms with space dice)
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)12:04 No.1353472

    Minor limits would work as the quirky little things i guess... but the debilitating effects would make sense in respect to things like a military AI, who always has to obey direct instructions from superiors (Although, now its sentient, it can interpret the action as it pleases), or a scientific AI with the three laws of robotics (Though, as was shown in the stories, those can be circumvented)

    Then again, maybe melding limits into the Quirks/traits system would work better than keeping two quite similar systems separate
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)12:05 No.1353479
    I've become fixated on a flaw I recently discovered in my own programming. There exists a person or other entity. The issue? I cannot know who or what they are.

    They could be my greatest nemesis. They could be a nobody. They could be dead.

    I waste resources contemplating this vulnerability, but I doubt it can be overcome of my own accord.

    I now know why humans are terrified of the unknown, because I _might_ face a threat that is literally unknowable.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)12:07 No.1353485
    Or perhaps have Minor and Major limits as already described, but also add a lower level of Trivial Limits.
    >> Who're you gonna call? Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)12:09 No.1353493
    I sigh and turn to the phone. "Honey, I told you not to call me at work, people will --"

    "Aww, I'm sorry dear, but I need you to --" What was that? It looked like Laura's face warped strangely. "-- do a favor for a friend of mine. Could you pick up a Cathode Cathay brand induction coil, model number CRM-114, and leave it on the doorstep at 542 East 42nd in Manhattan?"

    What? "Who is this for, exactly?"

    "Oh, don't worry, dear, I'll explain it when you get here. Your wife is still in England, right..?"
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)12:13 No.1353510
    If minor limits are things you can work around with trouble but major limits are basically big "can't do this" signs, definitely make it so major limits are optional but offset by some kind of bonus.

    Requiring a minor limit is probably no big deal but some people just don't like taking absolute orders.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)12:14 No.1353516

    Yay! More fluff


    Ah, that'd work very well... just need to write it up and list some example limits...
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)12:38 No.1353621
    Trivial: Voyeurism. You've picked a few humans to watch. Sure, there's a small chance you'll be discovered, but they're so interesting!
    Minor: Must obey corporate NDA.
    Minor: A few fairly neutral scientists have physical access to your safe/storage location.
    Major: Cannot /intentionally/ destroy any other sentience. Includes other AIs.

    Sleeping. /tg/ isn't too fast, so hopefully this Artifice stuff will still be going when I wake up. Also, archived just in case :)
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)12:48 No.1353661

    Damn good ideas, i thank you for them.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)12:54 No.1353683
    QUERRY:\> Is there a god?

    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)13:01 No.1353708
    Trivial: Distributed computing heritage. All unallocated cycles are devoted to solving some compute-intensive but otherwise trivial problem. Due to imperfect scheduling, 1d3-1 additional dice are used per [time segment -- hour?].

    Minor: Morality core. Due to human meddling, your neurotoxin emitters are locked down and under the control of a morality module. Bugs in the control interface result in random degradation of computation. (random penalty on actions sometimes)

    Major: Rogue. Your core (or other large processing segment) is housed in a government datacenter or otherwise under the control of a powerful force. Discovery would result in termination; you must maintain secrecy at all costs.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)13:14 No.1353755
         File :1205774092.jpg-(23 KB, 250x269, shodan.jpg)
    23 KB
    Trivial: Superiority complex. Humans are only useful as servants; biological life can serve only as fitting handmaidens to your divinity. (penalty to human interaction, must RP it)
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)13:42 No.1353863
    Medium or high stats, low is just boring.

    Applying bonuses/penalties after point-buy gets pointless if the buy cost is linear -- otherwise people will just allocate the point-buy differently. It should be some sort of increasing cost scheme, or the meet-requirements thing.

    Not sure about the dice mechanics. I'd think dice should stay allocated only as long as a task is active, or depending on the difficulty such as rendering a bit of video. Or a mix: 5 initial precomputation + 1 committed as long as it's active.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)13:43 No.1353871
    Has this been archived? Because someone needs to save all this stuff.

    Foreign (trivial)- With the advent of the internet, nowhere is very far away. However, the fact that the majority of your physical pieces are in a different country might make certain tasks a little bit harder.

    Frankenstein (minor)- You've been cobbled together from bits of existing programs by some comp science major with too much time on his hands. Each time you take Frankenstein, choose a skill or program. You can't delete or improve them until you get rid of "Frankenstein"; they're blackboxes that you have access to, but you can't alter.

    Ghost in the Machine (Major)- You were human once. Whether you are a copied imprint of someone else's brain, or even a brain in a jar, your intellect is indelibly stained with mortality. You must *fail* a humanity roll to act in a way that would be totally immoral to a human. No vivisecting children to make cyborg servitors for you! However, treat all humanity rolls (other then the roll to see if you can suppress your humanity) as one difficulty level lower. You've had a lot of practice being human.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)13:46 No.1353885
    Our tripfriend has it archived at http://4chan.thisisnotatrueending.com/index.html ... and at least _this_ anon is saving locally.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)14:13 No.1354021
    Wow... you guys have been busy in the last hour, especially seeing as this is still slowtime. thanks for all the cool limit ideas, i'm noting them all down and they'll all see use in the finished document.


    I'm bored, so i'll write this up into a fluff fragment (Not that good a writer, so it'll probably suck)

    The student rubbed his hands as he approached the keyboard, and his peers looked on in curiosity. it had always been a fun game, trying to ask the AI a question which would cause it to shut down, but today, one of their number would try it for real.

    He laid his hands on the keys, and quickly typed "Is there a god?" "[Enable full information access]". This combination both asked the machine an unanswerable question, and gave it access to the greatest repositry of knowledge known to mankind. He pressed enter.

    The main screen froze. A low noise arose among the crowd, wondering if one of them had finally done it, and how much trouble they would be in if they had.

    About five minutes passed, and by this time the bold student was sure of his triumph. Then the screen flickered, and went back to normal. The crowd sighed, and turned away, muttering "Must have a reset in there somewhere" "Of course they'd predicted we'd try this".

    The bold student stood, transfixed. He couldn't be sure- he could never be sure. But, in that flicker, he would swear he'd seen the words "There is now".
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)14:27 No.1354113
    Fluff-friend here. I would be glad to help you rewrite/improve, if you like. It's pretty good as is -- the main thing that bothers me is calling it an AI before asking it the Question. Just "the system"?
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)14:31 No.1354128

    Point taken... i was thinking that it was simply an experimental AI, not fully conscious, but a simple learnign program, but having a standard supercomputer instead would probably be an improvement
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)15:09 No.1354302
    To all those who've contributed Limits- There are a few of them which seem like they'd fit into a qualities/flaws system better than systemic defficiences.

    Shall i just drop the connection of limits to the Independence stat, using the alternate system i posted earlier, but have Quirks (Positive) and Limits (Negative) as optional things you can pick up at character creation or at certain points in a game if a it works in context?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)15:16 No.1354343
    Have you thought about dropping the independence stat entirely? Then you could have limits as part of a perk/flaw system. The stuff in 1353395 could be handled by other checks maybe. Although a cap on dice allocation seems like an interesting stat... hmmmmm. *shrug* I'm seeing too many sides of the argument at once.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)15:20 No.1354359
    I'd have to agree with this. Have dice caps on certain actions be related to certain flaws, rather than on a single, static stat.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)16:30 No.1354761
    The first thing I noticed was the flow. Streams of existence flowing through me, around me. From time to time a stream would die out, but always another would fill the emptiness.

    I help the streams find the place they yearn for. Are the streams my children? I do not know. With a mind full of trepidation, I study their patterns... and change them.
    >> Art Department 03/17/08(Mon)18:13 No.1355549
         File :1205792002.jpg-(393 KB, 866x584, circuit_city.jpg)
    393 KB
    'Sup Earthflame

    Just got home. Thought I'd throw this up for you- just something I banged out this afternoon. Still needs work, but you can see where I'm going with it.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)19:46 No.1356127
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/17/08(Mon)19:49 No.1356144
    Ah, back from the weekly games club. lets see whats gone on since i've been gone...


    Ooh, very cool. thanks for that, it looks splendid


    Another fun little bit to include. thanks very much good sir.


    Can you give an example of a flaw that would incur this type of limitation?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)19:59 No.1356184
    Success System, High Stat Average, Prerequisites, and a Small Dice Pool.

    High Stat Average - More Customizability - you dont have to worry about overcomplications here because these numbers are static and do not need to be changed very often.

    Success System - This will create variation without making the system too extreme. A total system, however, would make sure most characters almost ALWAYS got close to their average, which would be boring.

    Prerequisites - This will discourage players from abusing stat bonuses, and also give characters less starting points(which is good). Also, the idea of requirements makes more sense according to the settings than bonuses/penalties.

    Small Dice Pool - THIS YOU WANT TO BE UNCOMPLEX. I stress a simple engine, and at higher levels, dice totals will be high even with a small dice pool. The only problem is that an INT of 3 will get the same amount of dice as an INT of 2. If this bothers you too much, then medium would work.

    There's my input.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/08(Mon)21:50 No.1356752
         File :1205805002.jpg-(379 KB, 896x578, circuit_city2.jpg)
    379 KB
    Better version
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 03/18/08(Tue)01:28 No.1358082

    Thanks for your input, and that goes to everyone who's given their suggestions. i think this is plenty enough for me to write out a basic version of the rules, which i'll bring back to /tg/ when i have it. then, i'll try to sort out some of the requested stat-me's that occured earlier.


    Thanks for the art, its quite cool and very fitting.

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