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  • File : 1293965150.jpg-(9 KB, 220x224, fuzzy_12sided_die.jpg)
    9 KB Ha. Did it. Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)05:45 No.13369842  
    Good Morning /tg/.

    After loads, and loads, and loads of painstaking work, I present to you Ops and Tactics Alpha Build .1.

    Now, you may be asking "What the fuck is this shit?"

    This, is an attempt to take the best things from D20 Modern, Spycraft, Pathfinder, and a bunch more RPG systems and produce from it a decent D20 Based Modern Roleplaying Game system.

    This is also a proof of concept, that D20 can be used for modern correctly.

    Minus portions involving the salary amounts, OGL shit, and equipment, this was completely written by me.

    Total time taken to write this system from idea to Alpha .1 was 1 year, 6 months, and 2 days.

    The only thing this is missing, is a character sheet, and that will be implemented in the oncoming versions, but for now, I release it for opinions and tweaks and all that.

    if you have a concern,spelling error, question, or comment, please email opsandtactics@gmail.com

    Thank you for your time, and I do hope you enjoy the fruits of my labor.

    And as always, the picture is only slightly related.

    Link: http://www.mediafire.com/?lah08l7qblycvr2
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)05:59 No.13369951
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    >More Intresting Picture bump.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:19 No.13370060
    If you posted a summary of why it works when the others don't you'd have more interest.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:21 No.13370075
    He has a point.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:23 No.13370086

    No he doesn't. We still wouldn't be interested in it.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:28 No.13370122
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    >I am all of /tg/, hurp durp
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:30 No.13370130
    There isn't fucking /room/ to post a summary of why it works, while other's don't. The best I could tell you, is to read it, but I'll see what I can do.

    1. Gun's aren't melee weapons anymore

    What this is meant to explain is that in D20 Modern, there is no diversity in the firearm and caliber choice. The basic goal is to just get a decent gun with the most ammo, and roll from there. I've fixed this, by separating damage by caliber.

    2. Wealth Score

    Replaced the "You roll to buy something." With actual currency.

    3. Modularity

    The amount of customization to your weapon, armor, and by proxy, your character, gives depth and feel to your character.(OR at least it's supposed to)

    That's just a few. I'm kinda tired from proofreading, so go..read it yourself.

    Hell, then don't read it.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:33 No.13370145

    I was disinterested the moment he mentioned Pathfinder, as it totally invalidates his claim that this can be 'used correctly'.

    Also, character sheet is the first thing to look at for a new system. Tells you more on one glance than reading a few 100 pages will.

    No character sheet? GTFO.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:34 No.13370150
    OH! Shit. Forgot another important one. Armor.

    D&D/D20 System does armor a funny way. It throws everything into Defense/Armor Class, and says "That protects you."

    The problem with this, is that this is not how modern armor(And if you think about it, archiac armor too) works. A kevlar vest deterioriates when hit, but what it /does/ do, is give the player a damper. Damage Reduction, for being hit. While it won't make you invincible, it may shave off a few points from that .45 ACP slug that will save your life.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:35 No.13370161

    Yeah, because /tg/ talks constantly about custom homebrew games that are any good, especially TACTICOOL SIMULATORS
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:35 No.13370163
    >Spent a year balancing, getting rough drafts for system, reading systems, and implementing my own ideas.
    >Doing this by myself
    >Not having a character sheet invalidates all work.

    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:36 No.13370171
    Pokemon Tabletop Adventures.

    Your argument is invalid.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:38 No.13370181
    > Replaced the "You roll to buy something." With actual currency.

    Question- does this actually make the game better, and if so, why?
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:38 No.13370184

    Carried by the pokemon brand name.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:40 No.13370193
    >Steady Hands: The Wise hear receives a +2 bonus on all surgery checks
    should be wise hero, page 8, second-to-last paragraph
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:41 No.13370201
    >Question- does this actually make the game better, and if so, why?

    Fathoms better. Why? Because purchases should not have a random aspect to them. You should not have to roll a d20 if you want to buy something. Everything does not need a random aspect to it, particularly when concerned about goods and wares
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:41 No.13370202
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:42 No.13370207
    Thank you. Fixing it right now.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:43 No.13370214

    Ever heard of what an executive summary is for? Yes? Good. Now think of the character sheet as the executive summary of a rules set.

    You did not provide the most important part of your system - the one that is meant to get people actually interested.

    Spouting some random (old) bullshit about how Armor Class does not cut it, and tells me nothing about your work. A character sheet does.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:43 No.13370219
    And that was the hardest part. For all of the guns that I could find prices for, I used as accurate as prices I could get (used a PDF of the Modern Firearms guide, 19th edition).

    My only regret? No fluff for the guns, but that would take /too/ damn long.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:45 No.13370234
    >Melee Smash: The Strong hero Revives a +1 bonus on melee damage

    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:46 No.13370238
    You do see the little thing that says Alpha 0.1, right?

    This is literally the /first/ release. And this isn't even a real release. This is to get everything hammered out before I even work on the character sheet. It's playable in it's current fashion, but very rough.

    You sir, need to calm the fuck down.

    And I think that the rules to play the game, would be more important than a character sheet, seeing as how a character sheet without rules..is a useless form.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:46 No.13370241

    You love bookkeeping much?
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:47 No.13370248
    Thank you. Again. I know there are some errors, but for the most part, I've been the only eyes who has seen this, hence why I'm letting other people see it, so they see what I don't.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:48 No.13370252

    Someone's awfully defensive about criticisms of his work. It's almost like he's never had anybody look at it in the YEAR that it took him to make an ALPHA.

    Also, >implying that bugs can be excused in an alpha excuses shit from being shit, 'cause you'll just ride that Alpha crutch until 2012.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:49 No.13370253

    No, but tables are the most efficient way to house large volumes of information.

    Plus, you gotta start somewhere
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:49 No.13370255
    Would you care to explain why anyone would take a melee oriented talent tree in a game so focused on guns?
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:50 No.13370258
    Hey OP, I can understand that perhaps you've worked diligently on this, but just because you're done doesn't mean you can be lazy. You say that you've changed stuff, but you don't have room. If it's that intricate, then have a bulletin detailing some of the aspects of your game instead of a picture of some dice.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:51 No.13370264

    >implying that bugs can be excused in an alpha
    >implying that bugs can be excused in an alpha

    You need to look up what an 'alpha' means in the software release cycle (which is basically what he's referring too) then you need to kill yourself.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:52 No.13370268
    My whole point is, is that if you don't like it? Don't read it. Since your time is so valuable, it's no use waisting it telling me how much my work sucks, and continuing on on how you care nothing of it, even though you insist on belittling it.

    But my main gripe? You're not giving anything constructive. You're just saying "It's bad." Without giving a reason.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:53 No.13370270

    >implying that it should still be in fucking ALPHA after a YEAR of developing a hackpatch for popular d20 systems

    >implying it won't STILL be in alpha months from now
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:54 No.13370273
    Because melee weapons as a generalization can ignore soft Kevlar. Also, cheaper.
    I'm not lazy, I'm tired.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:54 No.13370276

    >And I think that the rules to play the game, would be more important than a character sheet, seeing as how a character sheet without rules..is a useless form.

    You miss the point: The character sheet TELLS me something about the rules. Especially for a system like yours, which is a derivative of other systems (at least some of which I am familiar with). Using the character sheet as a guide, I will quickly see whether I am comfortable with the basic obvious changes you have made, and I will also be steered to specific areas of interest within the main body of your work. Without the character sheet, the usability of you draft is vastly decreased.

    See... I do not agree with your basic precepts on this, but still, I am really just trying to help: Including a character sheet will improve this thing in a major way, and drafting one (even if it's just a rough version) should be easy enough given how familiar you are with your own work (I mean, you must have used something to document characters during playtests, right?).

    >You sir, need to calm the fuck down.

    Though you are right on that one, I guess. Tab closed.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:55 No.13370277
    Gun: The Gunning
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:55 No.13370278

    >Implying that stages of development are not governed by funds and release dates by publishers
    >Implying this guy is some how being funded for these things and isn't just doing it as a hobby.


    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:55 No.13370279
    >Implying you can tell the future.

    That's a neat trick.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:55 No.13370280
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    What's wrong OP?
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:57 No.13370292
    >Whats wrong OP?
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:58 No.13370298
    Did a brief read. You use the term "quick action" yet I cannot find a definition for a "quick action".
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)06:58 No.13370300
    >Bases can be thought of as the
    chemical opposites of acids, that neutralize acids but do not deal damage.
    you are aware that basic burns are MILES more annoying than acid burns? At least equate damage, nobody wants to get burned by drain cleaner (yes base).
    Also you are aware that dynamite is nitroglycerine absorbed in (usually) clay, or sugar, sawdust or pretty much anything that soaks it up?
    Nitro explosives (TNT,RDX, PETN) require contacts as concentrated nitric acid (which you need and takes literally forever and right gear to make) is banned from public purchase (at least here it is, dunno about USA). Equal C4/Semtex price with TNT or just refluff it with acetone peroxide. RDX that is required for both C4 and Semtex is also a horrible bitch to make.
    That much from a chemist. Yes I'm a nitpicking motherfucker.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)06:59 No.13370302
    >I mean, you must have used something to document characters during playtests, right?

    Text Files. A megabyte worth, of text files.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:01 No.13370315
    Okay, here's some actual constructive criticism since there's a lot of herpin' going on in this thread.

    OP, did you ever think for a moment you might want to have gone with a small subset of guns to start with, run a bunch of combat trials with your friends to see how they play out, and adjust things from there? Because as is, you're going to have a LOT of work cut out for you when you find out that things are imbalanced.

    And they WILL be imbalanced at first. Furthermore, just as a caution, try to avoid a ton of exception-to-rules rules in a game, since those always lead to bogging things down. Examples cited: subsystems in Shadowrun, certain kinds of spells from D&D (particularly in 2nd edition), every fucking thing about MtG.

    Personally, I think the game seems dull as dishwater since I'd rather have more over the top than fifty pages of guns, but I'm sure your group would like it.
    >> teka 01/02/11(Sun)07:03 No.13370319
    >how dare he offer me anything but instant prefection!
    >this is an insult to my /b/ macro honor~!

    why are you working so hard to troll original content?

    Anyhow op, taking a look and keeping an eye out for you later on. Would be interesting to see d20 modern that was not bows and arrows painted to look like guns and plate-mail getting called kevlar.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)07:03 No.13370320
    Oversite. Originally, I just turned Free action to Quick action, and halway, turned it back. Forgot to change it everyhere. What page was that on, exactly?


    >you are aware that basic burns are MILES more annoying than acid burns?

    No, I was not.

    >At least equate damage, nobody wants to get burned by drain cleaner (yes base).

    Will do.

    >Also you are aware that dynamite is nitroglycerine absorbed in (usually) clay, or sugar, sawdust or pretty much anything that soaks it up?


    >Nitro explosives (TNT,RDX, PETN) require contacts as concentrated nitric acid (which you need and takes literally forever and right gear to make) is banned from public purchase (at least here it is, dunno about USA).

    Which is why it's Military and Police

    >Equal C4/Semtex price with TNT or just refluff it with acetone peroxide. RDX that is required for both C4 and Semtex is also a horrible bitch to make.

    Didn't know that.

    >That much from a chemist.

    Glad for the info

    >Yes I'm a nitpicking motherfucker.
    THere are 50 pages of guns, as close to real prices as possible. I feel your pain.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)07:05 No.13370332
    And I can understand that. The most over-the-top thing about this are the monsters, and even then, I toned them down. This was supposed to lean on the side of modern realism, rather fantastical Sci-fi.

    But, thanks, and I'll be sure to stay away from those "Exception to rules" Pitfalls.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:08 No.13370343
    the "quick" thing is pretty prevalent, so just ctrl+F it.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)07:08 No.13370348
    I almost forgot. The 50 pages? Is the small subset. There used to be more, but most of them were in outdated calibers, ultra-rare guns(Like the Aristika), or simply just too hard to find information on.

    And maybe this is a personal reflection, but I like choice, and while things /may/ be unbalanced. That's how the real world is. Some guns are just inherently better than others. They usually cost more than those, too.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)07:10 No.13370359
    Found, fixed in .2, thanks.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:12 No.13370369
    Just to expand: from my experience PETN is by far the easiest to make, and the material to make it is cheap (short of nitric acid, which you can buy if you have the proper certificates from a university/institute or you can just steal it from a lab as it's common). TNT is somewhat middle road while RDX is an annnoying motherfucker with the potential to blow up in your face.
    Now disregard all this shit. Equate TNT, Semtex, C4 as the latter two are just TNT/RDX/PETN mixtures. Make acetone peroxide the 1 wealth explosive but add -1 demolitions while handling it (shit is piss easy to make, you can buy the mats in the hardware store but it blows up if you look at it wrong).
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:14 No.13370379
    I'll be honest with you, OP.

    You made a character-based system... without defining how characters work. You worked for a year and a half... without asking for proofreading, tips, or advice, much less play.

    I'm not saying that it's bad. I'm just not sure about the potential here.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)07:14 No.13370380
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:15 No.13370383

    Having to wade through that many guns is like having to wade through ten D&D sourcebooks to pick your feat tree. It's annoying and the people most likely to do it will end up picking weird shit like Brachiation for flavor reasons or because a Touhoufag derived the best mathematical combination of feats.

    It's not adding as much as you think. It's adding filler bulk that will be skimmed at the very best. Furthermore, while it's just my opinion, sacrificing balance for realism is a tooth-grinding design choice. For me, it's just a bucket of anti-fun that you can slather all over your rulebooks to coat them in the greasy patina of excel sheet porn.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:15 No.13370386
    Exploit weakness, the intelligent hero's talent, has vague wording.

    Suppose I am in combat, with thug A and thug B,
    A round passes,
    I use exploit weakness on thug A, it fails.
    another round passes,
    Can I attempt exploit weakness again?

    Next scenario
    I have used exploit weakness on Thug A, and killed him.
    Can I now attempt to use it on Thug B?

    In essence, can I reuse exploit weakness on the same opponent, and can I use it multiple times in one encounter?
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:16 No.13370394
    OP... you don't have a group, do you? That should have been step 1. You can't playtest this shit on your own.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:17 No.13370398
    >can I use exploit weakness again
    meant can I use it again on thug A.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)07:18 No.13370404
    >Didn't define how characters work.
    >Page 2.

    What? Maybe I'm not completely understanding what you're saying, but..did you read page 2?

    And, I asked for all of it. Hell, some of the ideas I got? Came from here. As far as asking for play? You can't play an incomplete system. This is the most complete it's ever been,hence the Alpha .1. IT's the first playable iteration.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:18 No.13370405

    He's telling you how these explosives work IRL bud
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:18 No.13370406
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    Depends on the game.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:20 No.13370414

    I agree with this guy to a degree, can't you but the masses of weapons and what not in a seperate 'book' to be used as a 'splatbook'
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)07:22 No.13370425
    Does anyone get the whole "You can't playtest a incomplete game?"

    I just finished it. TODAY.

    Good lord.

    Mutiple times in a single encounter, but it only affects one person at a time.

    It's like the Dodge feat.

    I'm not arguing with you on either point. The fact is is that the only thing on those charts are guns. There is absolutely no fluff to them(Which I haven't had a chance to add), so yes, it is A fucking Fortress of gun text.

    Also, Some balancing is good "EVERYONE IS EQUAL!" Is bad.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)07:24 No.13370435
    Yes, yes I can. And I will. But not /right/ now.


    I got that part, I'm just having a hard time figuring out what he wants me to do.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:27 No.13370447
    I don't get why OP is arguing with the trolls.
    Anyway, I hope your system covers injuries well.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:27 No.13370448
    Just found the explosives table, inc.
    >Thermite: This fluid is technically an incendiary rather than an explosive, burning at over 5,400° F.
    >Blast radius 5ft
    Thermite is a 2/3 mixture of aluminum powder and iron oxide (rust) and as such solid. "Bombs" are basically cans filled with stuff which you place on something and watch the glorious melting. You can't throw them. The stuff cuts through pretty much anything though.

    >TNT 4d6
    >Semtex/C4 1d10
    Nigger what? Both PETN and RDX are about 1,6 times stronger than TNT, any mixtures are 1,3 at least. Use my previous suggestion, merge C4/Semtex/TNT, take 1d10 for acetone peroxide and increase demolitions DC for AP.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:27 No.13370450

    Uh, yes you can. You can do it by not fucking around with fiddly shit, slapping down a bare bones, and building the game from there.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)07:29 No.13370464
    >You can do it by not fucking around with fiddly shit, slapping down a bare bones, and building the game from there.

    ...that's what this is.
    >I'm not a Chemist, or Explosives Expert.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)07:31 No.13370473
    Thats what the 5 foot radius is. IT basically melts anything in the 5 foot square.

    I should change that from Radius, though.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:35 No.13370491
    Don't be discouraged, OP. It'll take me forever and a day to read through it but I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses with updates.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)07:37 No.13370505
    That's wiki type knowledge. No problem though, not everyone uses ANFO instead of firecrackers for new years.
    Remove radius from thermite, it's a cutting/welding tool (they weld railroad tracks with it). It might set some stuff on fire 2-3 feet away from it due to sheer heat, but the whole point of its usage is to cut through a door/support beam/someone's engine block without any sound and with a thing you can carry in your pocket. Basically a one-use pocket held thermal lance.
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)07:40 No.13370521
    Thanks. Mind the wall of guns, though. It's a good read for anyone who would enjoy /k/, but anyone less that than just won't be intrested.

    To the explosives dude: I'm taking your advice...well..half of it. I am Merging PETN and RDX, and all that, but I'm not so sure about adding Acetone Peroxide.

    For now, I'm gonna go take a nap, thanks for the constructive criticism, the information, and I'll have Alpha .2 up soon.

    And don't forget, email opsandtactics@gmail.com if you have any errors, suggestions, or comments. Or you want to help. That's /always appreciated./
    >> Sweet Soul Bro !!H5XdMKmBv5G 01/02/11(Sun)07:41 No.13370533

    We use flash powder in the states, but, got any more comments, send me an email. I'm taking a nap.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)08:12 No.13370665
    >>OP asks for constructive criticism of work
    >>OP actually expects to receive constructive criticism of work

    I think I can see where this thread went wrong.

    Honestly dude, /tg/ is not the place to go for constructive criticism. If you get this place at the right time you can ride the hype train all the way to funville. I managed to get some fucking amazing stuff for a small B-movie monster RPG that is about to go into testing with an RL group in one night. The next day I come back and ask for more and the general response was "Meh, that was so 20 hours ago, bitch."

    But if you want /tg/ to help, best advice I can give is:
    1. Ask nicely and respond helpfully to requests (however they may be worded) for clarification/reasons for decisions.
    2. Don't get aggressive. Even if people are claiming your probability curve sucks worse than your dead grandmother
    3. Be able to clearly explain what your game is meant to offer.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/11(Sun)08:15 No.13370679
    Read through it. There seems to be no incentive to do anything melee based.

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