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    1.36 MB Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)05:04 No.10839457  
    In the early 2020's a research team comprised of staff at MIT succeed in creating the first full body prosthesis.

    They successfully place the brain of a cat into a prosthetic body and keep it alive (it died in 2031).

    In the late 2020's the first human is cyberised. However something is discovered that was overlooked in the previous animal studies.

    The process all but destroys the memory and mind of the subject. This typically results in near total amnesia and drastic personality shifts. Later cases of human cyberisation reveal this to be the norm not the exception and further animal studies with older animals who have been trained reveal that this has always been the case.

    As a result cyberisation became very unpopular and never entered the civilian medical world. Instead national governments financed further research with many nations using criminals who ordinarily would receive life imprisonment or the death sentence as test subjects/recruits.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)05:17 No.10839603
    It wasn't long before government agencies started forming cyborg divisions. The advantages far outweighed the negative press from the use of convicted criminals or the odd volunteer.

    Despite the damage to the mind it wasn't uncommon for the violent and psychotic tendencies of some of these individuals to shine through.

    After a few very high profile incidents further controls were put in place.

    By the mid 2040s the number of cyborg agents was drastically reduced with each one having a human handler who was responsible for ensuring their charge behaves in an appropriate manner.

    One way they did this was through the use of a device designed to induce feelings of pain in the cyborg. Thanks to their near total lack of sensory feeling this was more painful than it would normally be.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)05:23 No.10839665
    Cyborg agents have safety levels assigned to them. This rating is a measure of their psychological state and how likely they are to be a danger to the public, mission and hander.

    The ratings range from A (Safe) to F (Extremely dangerous) in the format of three letters for different factors.

    So a cyborg agent with the rating ADB is psychologically stable but a likely danger to the mission but not likely to be a threat to his handler.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)05:36 No.10839823
    The CIA is one agency that makes heavy use of cyborgs. More so than anyone else with almost one third of their numbers being comprised of cyborgs with another third being the handlers and support staff showing their commitment to the use of cyborgs.

    Their cyborg agents operate throughout the world with their handlers controlling and backing them up. They perform assassinations, intel gathering ops and even raid enemy strongholds.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)05:40 No.10839864

    I'm interested, go on..
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)05:54 No.10840005
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    Cyborgs are designed in a variety of physical forms. Most of them humanoid but that is where the physical similarity ends.

    Their bodies are heavily armoured, bristling with built in weaponry and extra features. The limits of technology make it impossible to miniaturise it sufficiently to create cyborgs with a human appearance.

    Their bodies are also extremely limited in terms of sensory capacity especially in regards to their sense of touch which is extremely limited (typically only present in their manipulator appendages if at all). This is one of the most difficult things for cyborgs to deal with and the source of most of their psychological instability. Psychologists theorise that it is equivalent to being in a sensory deprivation tank constantly with only some speakers and a screen to provide any sensory capacity. This can make it very easy to sneak up on a cyborg if you manage to get past their improved hearing and optic sensory equipment.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)05:56 No.10840026
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    >They successfully place the brain of a cat into a prosthetic body and keep it alive (it died in 2031).

    Immediately thought of this.
    >> I apologized on 4chan !!O1JS15Z6lxy 06/30/10(Wed)05:58 No.10840048
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    Really? I actually thought of this.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:01 No.10840074
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    A surprising adaptation that proved common in cyborgs was their brains developing the ability to function without sleep. The mechanism for this is currently unknown but is another source of psychological stress on the cyborg as they are often left alone during the night with little to do. Most fill this time with video games, reading or other hobbies which have now become a very important part of their rehabilitation and psychological upkeep. It has been rated as so essential it is even listed as a critical part of their maintenance budget.

    The brain on its own can be a bit finicky to keep alive. Each cyborg has his own cocktail of artificial hormones and glucose that they must take daily in the form of a cartridge plugged into their body. Failure to do so will result in psychological instability, sluggish behaviour and eventually death.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:06 No.10840144
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    Why would the CIA bother with handlers? At least one third of their staff are ALREADY dangerous criminals, and no-one seems to mind.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:09 No.10840169
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    The relationship between a cyborg and its handlers varies dramatically based mostly on the cyborgs personality and safety rating along with the handlers opinion of cyborgs.

    Cyborgs with a poor safety rating require constant observation and strong discipline to prevent them running amok while those with a good safety rating can often be left to their own devices without worry (albeit those devices still typically can not take them off site).

    An unusual example of a cyborg with a flawless safety rating (AAA) ended up living with his handler and his family. He is the only cyborg allowed to freely wander due to his spotless record. It is worth noting that this cyborg was a volunteer albeit nothing of the original personality or mind remain.

    The current cyborg with the worst safety rating holds a rating of FCF. He is typically stored disconnected from locomotion and weapons components only reunited with them when on task. The subject is extremely psychotic and requires constant very strong disciplinary action to keep him on task. If not for his knack for destruction he would have been decommissioned long ago. It is worthy of note that the subject in question was a paedophile with no violent tendencies before cyberisation.

    Most cyborgs however spend the majority of their time living in specially constructed dormitories which are more like prisons. A careful watchful eye is kept on them at all times despite them having tracking devices installed and their dependence on their agency for maintenance and upkeep it is not surprising to hear of escape attempts.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:10 No.10840187
    So, uh, Ghost in the Shell meets Megaman?
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:15 No.10840228
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    Public opinion of cyborgs is not kind.

    It is a rare individual who regards them as anything more than an extremely dangerous machine. Science fiction involving cyborgs has all but vanished as well except where they are depicted as the villain.

    There are many activist groups who seek a total ban on the construction of cyborgs and the decommissioning of all current cyborgs along with an immediate halt to cybernetics research.

    There have even been cases where cyborg agents belonging to the government have been attacked by the public for no reason. This makes their deployment a carefully measured decision and if they are deployed every effort is made to clear the public out of the area.

    It is also worth noting that cyborgs are legally non-human and are in the eyes of the law; property.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:17 No.10840251
    >The process all but destroys the memory and mind of the subject.

    HURR. Not really realistic. The human mind is quite flexible, and most likely will adapt easily to a robotic body.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:23 No.10840338
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    Currently the upper limits of a cyborgs lifespan is unknown. Most are either destroyed in action or decommissioned due to behavioural defects that develop or excessive damage which it is not cost effective to repair.

    Typically though behavioural defects begin to creep in at the five year mark. Usually by the seventh year they are deemed too dangerous to be worth keeping and are decommissioned. Very rarely a cyborg will adapt perfectly and will remain stable for a very long period of time. The oldest cyborg agent still in use is 19 years old (from his construction date).
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:25 No.10840357

    Not really. People don't take well to extended periods of sensory deprivation.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:28 No.10840398
    OP, your fluff intrigues me and I am interested in where you are taking this.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:28 No.10840404
    HURR it's a MacGuffin.
    HURR you're not a neurological expert.
    HURR opinions stated as fact.

    OP: GrimDark Medabots...?
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:29 No.10840423
    The human mind is resiliant, not flexible. If abandoning it's previous personality and memories is what is required to keep the body going, that shit will happen.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:32 No.10840451
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    The military also makes heavy use of cyborgs in the form of heavy infantry shocktroopers.

    Their ability to carry heavy weaponry in a manner akin to light weaponry on a human soldier and still be armoured to the level of a light APC while retaining high manoeuvrability makes them extremely valuable.

    In military formations however a single handler is responsible for multiple cyborgs and psychological defects are not tolerated at all. Military cyborgs have a much shorter projected lifespan as a result despite them making efforts to treat psychological defects that pop up.

    The use of cyborgs in war often follows a lightning strike approach. Quickly getting your forces in after softening up the opponent with artillery and mopping up what remains.

    While this tactic has yet to be tested against any opponent that isn't in the third world it has so far proven extremely effective. Cyborg troops are very rarely used to defend and objective due to the lack of trust senior military officials have in them.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:35 No.10840481

    Not really taking it anywhere.

    Just felt like fluffing out a world. I do it every now and then.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:41 No.10840540
    ... What?

    Well fuck that, I'll do it. Here are some basic mechanics we need to work out.

    Each player has two characters, the Cyborg and the Handler. The DM is the 'Project Manager' and has a physical presence in-game.

    The 'two character' system is easier than you would think because one is effectively the fighting side of the player, the other is effectively the non-fighter side. In combat the Handler has access to an advanced feedback and monitoring system to keep track of the Cyborg and help them monitor the situation.

    There are no 'classes', instead the players choose personality types for both Cyborg and Handler. They are not obliged to RP them in that way, but the personality types determines what areas the cyborg and handler are good at. Unfortunately some personality types do not play well with others, and in certain events a 'psychological attack' test must be undertaken. In the event the test is failed, the Cyborg picks up a randomly determined psychological impairment.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:43 No.10840561
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    Independent cyborgs are exceptionally rare.

    It is a very very rare cyborg who not only escapes from his owners but finds someone who is able to keep him alive (male pronouns are always used for cyborgs regardless of the original gender).

    The specialised upkeep and maintenance they require means that those who do escape very rarely last long. There are however a small number of cyborg emancipation groups (legally regarded as criminals) who aid cyborgs who escape by providing maintenance and upkeep. These cyborgs still have very strict limits on their movements however due to their very obvious appearance and inability to go unnoticed in a crowd. This makes their escape a token gesture at best.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:44 No.10840582

    Perhaps make it so both cyborg and handler are players? Creates a good team dynamic among the party.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:45 No.10840590
    Rather than "I did kill him, now I know how to kill better" experience gain, there are two levels of experience. 'Teamwork' and 'Resources'.

    Work together effectively and teamwork builds up, granting access to more techniques the cyborg can use in combat when the handler is available to assist.

    Resources gather when you please your superiors, which can be used to improve on the Cyborg. These improvements can be direct combat ability, optional parts that can be applied in hardpoints for benefit until the hardpoint is replaced (E.G. Jumpjets to help when in difficult terrain), or even 'quality of life' improvements like granting the cyborg something approaching a tactile sense, which makes psychological breaks less likely.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:47 No.10840619

    or an increased hobbies budget to decrease the chance of psych attacks.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:48 No.10840630
    Possible, but the "1 player = Handler and Cyborg" gives it something to set it apart from many of the other games out there, I think.

    The safety rating system is effectively 'alignment'. It is initially set by the player, but as events unfold alterations are determined by the DM.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:52 No.10840680
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    ... or maybe all players are handlers, all cyborgs are NPC's they "control", and the game concentrates over the troubling relationship between the two?

    Gunslinger Girl, anyone? Emotionally jumbled borgs going on jealous killing sprees over the attention of the only person they can connect with?

    Will players be able to bring themselves to care at all over cyborgs that don't look like little girls?
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:53 No.10840692
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    Cyborg weaponry typically consists of either onboard weapons mounted onto hardpoints on the cyborgs chassis or oversized (almost comically so) weapons similar to ones used by humans (for instance an assault rifle chambered in .50).

    Depending on the size of the cyborg you can have weapons ranging from something the size of a normal machinegun as its maximum armament size or in extreme cases (like in the case of the US cybernetic airbornes Thunder model cyborg) something the size of a battle tank cannon.

    Blades are often included as a hardpoint weapon but are only used as a backup weapon. Another weapon that has proven popular is the sonic spike, a weapon that takes the form of a spiked pole along which a sonic vibration is sent causing severe damage to structures and soft tissue depending on the frequency setting.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:55 No.10840704
    As the guy who came up with the "1 player = Cyb + Hand", I REALLY like that idea. The cyborg could be a stock design, created by the DM, or randomly determined. The game is focused on trying to get the job done while keeping the Cyborg away from his personality quirks that inerfere with the mission.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:56 No.10840722

    Yeah the handler system was heavily inspired by Gunslinger girl. Always kinda bugged me they used lolis and such a twisted means to ensure loyalty.

    In this setting though the relationships between cyborgs and their handlers vary much more greatly. Some are buddies while others hate each other and the borg only obeys because the handler can effectively whip him.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:58 No.10840753

    Yeah that does sound good.

    Fuck OP here I'm tempted to run this now. Shame there's no group round here. Hmm how would I go about publishing a RPG book and making money off it?
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:59 No.10840758
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    How about the DM rolls each borg's mental issues, in a fashion similar to Unknown Armies' excellent sanity system? And that the handler players' efforts would concentrate not only on the tactical and strategic effort necessary for controlling the borgs effectively, but also in learning to know what makes their borg tick, and as such, minimize it's propability of going on a violent rampage.

    And since most of the cyborgs are "rehabbed" criminals, getting to know your ward too well might turn out to be more mentally taxing than one could expect...
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)06:59 No.10840762
    Building on it further, you could use something similar to the order system Warmaster (the Warhammer-Epic game from ages back) used. When attempting to control the cyborg in combat, you roll a 'teamwork' check. For each teamwork check you can give the cyborg one order, and get to made an addition check, up to a certain maximum. When you fail a check, roll randomly to determine how the cyborg reacts to the situation dependant on the circumstances.

    So a handler with great teamwork with his cyborg may be able to get it to jumpjet to the top of a pile of rubble, observer the situation, jumpjet over to land in the middle of the enemy, crush two with it's bare hands, and fire a wrist mounted rocket at the helicopter gunning at it.

    But a handler with bad teamwork with his cyborg may end up with a Cyborg who jumps on top of the rubble, ignores his orders and fires his machine gun at the helicopter.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:00 No.10840773

    Yeah. Instead of telling the players their borgs specific quirks the DM instead gives them a projected safety rating and leaves it at that. After that the player has to figure out what makes their borg tick and how to work with them.

    If the borg develops further defects to the point where they're no use then bam its decommissioned and the player has to learn to work with a new one.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:02 No.10840791
    Fuck you all /tg/, I'm already writing a weeaboo martial arts RPG, now you've got me wanting to work on this instead.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:02 No.10840793
    OK OP here.

    I'm going to be sodding off for ten or so minutes. I'll look forward to catching up on this when I get back.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:03 No.10840810

    OP here. Nah I'll write it up.

    But do give advice on getting it published plzkthx
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:06 No.10840833
    Or at the worst, when blatantly misused, the borg could go 'zerk on the field until it either kills its' handler or dies from shock due to over-use of the panic button.

    An example could be that a negligent handler with a cyborg that has mental flaws against fear sends his ward to conduct a frontal assault on a very strongly fortified enemy position would likely lead to the borg attacking passively or running away altogether. If the handler whips it back to the fight, prolonged stress could lead to further mental damage or prementioned berserk as nothing else but the need to get away exists in it's mind anymore.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:11 No.10840871
    So, what are you all thinking in regards to orders? All Cyborgs have a "Receptiveness" stat that indicates how likely they are to follow orders. Something simple, like rolling 7+ on 2d6.

    But then the Cyborg gets modifiers depending on psychology. The GM chooses psychological difficulties and writes up a very brief psych profile for the players which gives them an idea what the 'borg is likely to do. The GM has exact modifiers. Such as "Aggressiveness +2, 'Honourable' +1" and that sort of thing. The effects being cumulative, so if a Handler told this cyborg to head-long charge at the enemy, he'd have to roll 7+ on 2d6+3 to get him to do it, but if he tried to tell the cyborg to avoid engaging the enemy directly, and snipe the target from a distance, he'd have to roll 7+ on 2d6-3.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:13 No.10840891
    But as the game continues, if the Handler does really impressive stuff, they earn 'Trust' points, which they can use to automatically pass leadership tests.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:13 No.10840898
    The main psyche framework should have some sort of "stability" or "stress" counter as a somewhat central concept, too. I'm very poor with the crunch though.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:17 No.10840921
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    Hells yes! Mistrusting borg and handler become Bros 4 Life when the handler busts in on the fight scene between the borg and 3 hostile hunter-killer drone tanks with nothing but a shotgun. Buddy cop action ensues.

    Is it wrong to imagine the handler to be Terence Hill, and the cyborg Bud Spencer?
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:20 No.10840959
    Same about crunch. The martial arts RPG I mentioned I'm working on is stuck at the conceptual stage because I can't settle on numbers.

    The psyche profile could be divided into "Preferences", "Dislikes" and "Stresses". Preferences and dislikes only apply to individual actions (E.G. Dislike: head-on-attacks, or preference: Underhanded methods) which give penalties or bonus'. But when a stress is applied, it remains in place until the end of the battle, or until something happens to remove the concern from the cyborg. E.G. The cyborg could have an explainable fear of helicopters and gunships, so when one of them is in the fight he will be at a penalty for the duration, or until he witnesses it being destroyed.

    The counter to these stresses would be the handler him/herself. There could be skills the handler learns, such as "Calming influence", which could halve the effects of stresses, or even just improving his teamwork score with the 'Borg.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:23 No.10840994
    How did they manage to translate "Bud" to "Mpant?
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:25 No.10841016
    It is official, one of the Cyborg chassis designs is the Mpant (stands for Mobile Platform - Armed Nautical and Terrain) design. Somehow it's design seems to foster attachment for the handler.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:26 No.10841023
    The translators were greek, I'm assuming, and sloth, nepotism, negligence and incompetence are a matter of national pride there.

    Or then it could just be an alphabet thingy.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:26 No.10841027
    Thank you /tg/. Seems like I'm still in love with you.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:28 No.10841044

    I would personally only give the handlers a safety rating for the borg. Gives an element of toucheyfeelyness for the first few sessions as they come to grips with their borg.

    It gives enough numbers that they have an idea of how they'll respond but nothing too specific.

    As for stats for the borgs I would put in things like:

    Stress: How well they respond to stress (including the use of the panic button the handler has)
    Courage/Fear: How much perceived threat to their safety they can handle before they start shitting their non-existent pants.
    Trust: How likely the borg is to trust authority figures (not just their handler)
    Handler trust: How much the borg trusts their handler specifically.
    Aggressiveness: How aggressive the borg is on a numerical scale of say 1 to 10. So the borg would roll an aggression check and add their aggressiveness score to the result to determine how they act (meaning highly aggressive borgs couldn't engage in peaceful actions without the handler being very forceful).

    After that it would probably get more abstract. But those make sense as the utmost basic numbers I think.


    Yes this. If the handler performs a good bro moment then they get a trust point to spend to automatically pass/crit a leadership check for their borg.

    The Handlers main stat is going to be their leadership ability which they use to command their borg and influence its rolls in the form of modifiers.

    They also have the panic button which they can use to force their bot into compliance with a specific action but it causes stress damage and usually damages trust.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:31 No.10841071
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    That made my day.

    I'm assuming the model in question is of an unorthodox style of build, it's silhouette resembling that of a bear or a gorilla. It also has an unique close combat implement against heavy armor, which consists of immobilizing the target by grabbing it with one forelimb, while utilizing a gas-piston driven tungsten fist to pummel it to oblivion.

    Also, it has been noted that MPANT-model cyborgs prefer their mission rewards to be paid in simulated intoxication programs.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:35 No.10841112
    GMs have a personification in the form of the Handler's project manager. He gives the mission requirements, which includes requirements on how to handle the Cyborgs.

    This might often include actions which would damage handler/'borg relationships, such as "The primary objective is eliminating the target. Rescuing hostages is tertiary at best. Full force is permitted and encourage", when the 'borg is highly compassionate.

    Compromising the mission requirements by pandering to the 'borg builds trust, but results in the brass disliking the handler and limiting their resources.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)07:37 No.10841138

    A skilled handler thus must therefore balance the needs of the mission and their borgs continued existence along with the borgs trust in them.

    Making the use of trust tokens more far reaching. You have to very carefully use them and not just use them to win fights but also to get your borg to do things it doesn't like.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)07:46 No.10841238
    A handlers stats would be

    Leadership: Used to influence the borgs rolls and actions.

    Diplomacy: The handlers ability to talk to people and convince them to do things (This could be used with the borg but would require opposed trust rolls)

    Weapons: The handlers ability to use weapons.

    Mechanic: The handlers skills in regards to maintenance and repairing borgs and other advanced technology. Could be used to enact field repairs.

    Espionage: The handlers all round spy skills. Things like hacking, lockpicking, sifting for info, etc
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:48 No.10841255
    I'd thrown in "Resourcefulness" as well. Something to see if players can pull off unusual manouvers. E.G. If they want extra intel in an abandoned urban environment, a resourcefulness check could find them a way in to the old traffic camera network if they can find a way to get it power.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)07:50 No.10841270

    Yeah that'd be the max we could have though.

    Six stats is overall pushing it.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:51 No.10841282
    Give players a base of 7 for the stats. To get them to succeed they need to roll 7 or less on 2d6. They get 4 points to improve stats, and can gain up to 4 more by lowering stats.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:52 No.10841289
    Wow. /tg/ does get shit done.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:53 No.10841304
    Hmm. In practice, wouldn't this mean that it could be wise to mechanically monitor the brass's disposition towards the handler-borg pair in question as well? How far can they bend the rules for mutual survival before the heartless, soulless big shots force decommission or kamikaze runs for the sake of their own carreers, political agendas or the like?

    And what then, when the call comes? Will the handler walk his ward down the green mile, or will there be an "accidential gap in surveillance", or even them going AWOL? How will the other players feel about hunting down their runaway former comrades?

    Also, for handlers, isn't it fairly feasible for them to have a "detective"-esque side to the gameplay as well, in case the game runs along the lines of espionage or law enforcement? Y'know, handling contacts, acquiring information, locating targets and setting up safehouses or escape routes before the actual strike?
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:54 No.10841307

    Besides the brain, how much of the cyborg is still organic? As the brain needs nutrients, some way to filter out waste/toxins and some kind of immune system to ward off infections. Assuming they have all this they should be able to use regular intoxicants though ingesting them could be a bit tricky.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)07:54 No.10841310

    So higher is worse for the stats?

    The aggression thing is sticking though. A scale of 1 to 10 for that just feels right.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)07:58 No.10841340

    The brain and part of the brainstem.

    Everything else has been replaced mechanically. They're effectively a sealed system.


    It would be up to the DM to determine based on how they perceive their actor in the world.

    As for how the borg is decommissioned it would again depend on the campaign and the DM.

    And yes the handler gets a lot of detective stuff which I've included in their stats.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)07:59 No.10841346
    It wouldn't be too hard to reverse. "Seven or less" or "Seven or more", with higher being better in the former (smaller number to roll higher than) and lower being better in the latter (higher number to roll less than)

    I like the Detective side idea. Some kind of investigative roleplay to give them something to do other than just ordering a big fuckoff humanchine to shoot things. And can enforce their frail human vulnerability if they end up getting shot and have to hold off until their 'borg ends up on the scene.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)08:05 No.10841380
    Funny how frailty seems to have become a somewhat central theme. The physical frailty of the handler, and the mental frailty of the borg. Also, despite their buff physique, their rough 10-year lifespan propably makes life somewhat jarring for the bunch.

    Say, does protocol encourage or discourage letting the borgs know of their short lifespan? How will the others feel when they notice that their "comrades" quietly disappear from the dormitory in a frequent interval?

    "Where did that old, grumpy MPANT from room 6 down the hall go? We used to play chess every sunday, and he never missed a game..."
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)08:07 No.10841400
    Interesting. I hadn't really considered possible mental issues for the handlers. These would be people you bond with, grow close to and have to trust with your career, possibly your life. Then they can suddenly just be taken away from you in an instant all because YOU fucked up. Or, even worse, you did nothing wrong at all and they still died. Or worse still, you did absolutely everything fucking right, and after a decade the machine you call friend has just decayed too much and needs to be put away. And you get issued a new one, and expected to do the same.

    But it's not the same.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)08:08 No.10841405
    The idea of trust tokens don't really sit well with me. Gaining/losing trust on an one action per point basis just seems weird. Some kind of rating where you gain points from the bro moments but risk losing them from getting the borg hurt or otherwise putting it at risks makes more sense.

    Maybe a score you can use for the test instead of rolling, but with a risk of losing trust rating if the action has negative consequences for the cyborg? So basically, as long as it trusts the handler, there's generally no problem in getting it to obey orders (other than what other defects might cause), but if the handler puts it through worse situations, it gets more likely to disobey.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)08:09 No.10841427

    Depends on the psychological state and preliminary safety rating of the borg.

    Borg dorms would be organised in regards to the borgs safety ratings and mental states. The only ones where borgs are permitted to socialise amongst themselves would be the ones where the borgs have a high safety rating and stable mental state. So telling them would probably be fine while telling a less stable one would cause stress.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)08:11 No.10841442
    I view the trust token just being the 'borg growing to trust your judgement, even if it goes against his preferences or personal opinion. You've been through shit together, to the extent where even if it sits poorly with him, if you tell him to he'll jump that barricade and charge at the enemy firing, just because it's YOU telling him to do it. But that can only be stretched so far before his natural preferences reassert themselves.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)08:13 No.10841467

    Ohh that is nice. Handler psych issues would be rarer mind.


    The Handler trust rating would go up and down but the trust token system is there only for the most epic bro moments. Where the Handler outdoes himself and earns a chance to say "JUST TRUST ME YOU IDIOT!"

    Think like in team kids cartoons (like Medabots) where you've got the fighter and his backup. They never get along but the backup does something broworthy and after that gets to do a "JUSTFUCKINGTRUSTME!" moment where he gets the fighter to do something he considers stupid.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)08:21 No.10841532
    OP, as the guy who posted this, I just want to say the more this is described, the more I want to see this mechanic in it.

    Limit the number of potential actions a turn to 4 or so, and then make the handlers roll a teamwork/leadership/'whatever you call it' check whenever getting the 'borg' to do an action.

    Pass four checks and you can get him to do an epic series of actions (more likely if they're actions the 'borg is comfortable with) that are true action-hero moments.

    But you have to roll for each action as you declare it, and if you fail the check the DM gets to determine the 'borgs action based on their personality. So instead of the awesome action hero moment, the 'borg could run down the street as you order, but instead of taking up position to provide cover fire for the rest of the time, he stops and tries to shoot down the flying gunships he hates.

    Makes the players consider their actions more. Do you do the more important, riskier action first, or the safer, less important actions?
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)08:21 No.10841536
    On the note of handler stress issues, I'm imagining alcoholism to be a widespread problem in the handler 'corps.

    I'm somewhat stuck on the "80's action movie"-gear after >>10840921 though, god knows why, so as such bourbon and blues seem to be a firm part of the picture.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)08:25 No.10841566
    I teared up at this.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)08:26 No.10841583

    The handlers would have a high turnover rate.


    Yeah makes sense. The more successes you make in the series the closer to your plan his actions go.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)08:30 No.10841614
    It is now confirmed. OP, save this thread somewhere for future reference, and bring it up again when the board is less "LOL RACISM" and off-topic shit. I want to see what /tg/ can do with it.

    And keep working on crunch in the mean-time. I'm more than happy to playtest this.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)08:33 No.10841654
    Agreed. Archival would be good. Gee whiz, this thread's the best thing to come out of /tg/ since Mercs & Planes.

    Also, Terence Hill. Loldubbing.

    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)08:42 No.10841752
    Ok base stats.

    All stats have a base of seven. They can be modified at the start by subtracting a point from one stat and adding it to another however this is DM discretion.

    A check on these stats is done by rolling 2D6 you have to roll equal or under your stat to pass.

    Handler trust

    These stats can change with time based on hardware upgrades (which only last so long as they are installed) such as an onboard computer system designed to ramp down their aggression. Or in the case of things like trust by the actions of the handlers (so its DM discretion)

    The bots also have physical stats that are the product of their body. These stats are:

    Strength: The cyborgs physical strength.
    Armour class: The cyborgs damage resistance. Attacks must do more than this to do damage to the borg
    Agility: How agile the borg is. Heavy bots always have a low agility.
    sensors: This represents the borgs sensory equipment and scanners.

    These stats are much more easily modified by modding the body.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)08:47 No.10841797
    I know what it's supposed to represent, but... Why would the token be lost if the action is successful?
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)08:48 No.10841803

    Bodies also have durability (HP) and hard points.

    The bigger the body the more durability and hard points it has but it's also harder for it to move around and has a lower agility.

    Hard points are used to mount weapons and system upgrades.

    Hard points come in different types.

    Limb mounts for things like weapons and tools. Internal hardpoints for system upgrades.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)08:49 No.10841813

    Because you only get so much trust.

    You give you take. It's balancing.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)08:53 No.10841855
    What do you think of the bot stats?
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)08:54 No.10841864
    Borg stats I mean
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)08:55 No.10841873
    "Do this thing that seems dangerous, trust me, it'll work."
    "Okay, fine."
    Success achieved.

    Next time:
    "Okay, now do this dangerous seeming thing."
    "No, I don't trust you after last time."

    And that's basically what's not making sense to me.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)08:57 No.10841885
    Should there be a "hit location" system? And would a D&D-esque to-hit AC system, or a resistance vs. damage system work better? I'm siding with the latter, personally.

    And since I'd imagine a cyborg's vital systems would be somewhat compact in comparison to its' general size, I'd imagine a borg to be capable of losing a fair bit of it's parts before becoming non-functional, and even then it'd be "alive" as long as the internal power source and glucose cartridges run.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)08:58 No.10841897

    All relationships are give and take.

    The relationship can't be too one sided. If it is then the one being used will start to question the relationship.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:00 No.10841909
    Think of it more like this.
    "WHAT!? Are you fucking crazy!?"
    "Just do it, fucking trust me!"
    "God damnit! *Does it*"

    Then next time
    "WHAT!? Are you fucking crazy!?"
    "Just do it, fucking trust me!"
    "Hell fucking no! You are asking way too fucking much of me!"
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:01 No.10841922
    I'd keep 'hit location' only for a special event. Like if a cyborg takes over X amount of damage (perhaps a fraction of it's health) in one hit, roll on the hit-location table and apply the unique damage.

    Or maybe once a Cyborg loses 2/3rds of it's health it suffers special damage determined by a hit location table.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:02 No.10841926
    The loss of memory and personality should be more like Robocop. The memories lie dormant until triggered.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:02 No.10841927
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    >"hit location"

    Something like this? Perhaps not as complex.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:02 No.10841930

    Hmmm hit locations could be a bit of a pain. I remember playing with them in one system and it just led to so much agony especially in the form of certain limbs ALWAYS being hit.

    I'd say make it part of the action check for the borg to hit a specific part.

    Also yeah durability is their HP so as long as they have some they remain functional (mayhaps put function grades in there so as they get more damaged they function less well). Once they run out of HP they become non-functional but like in D&D with its -10 = death system the borg can loose a little bit more before death.

    Just thought how will I cover the actual shooting stuff.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:03 No.10841942
    I'd give the players a few points to add to different stats at the start. Give them a chance to be good in an area without starting to suck elsewhere. Or maybe start all stats at 6 and give them just enough points to get them all to 7 if they want to be really boring.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:03 No.10841947

    They do in some while in others they don't. Some borgs may even retain memories.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:05 No.10841962

    One maybe two.

    That'd be enough to show skill.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:07 No.10841978
    Fluff it so there is ALWAYS some loss, if not total. It could contribute to their psycholgical frailness.
    "I remember my wedding day. It was beautiful, everything was perfect, even the drunken uncle was funny rather than pathetic."
    "That's lovely. What was your wife like?"
    "I don't know. Was I the wife, or the groom?"
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:08 No.10841989
    Somebody archive this yet?
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:12 No.10842013

    Most of them would have an absolute minimum of memory retention.

    Memory recollection would most likely be discouraged as well. How the handler handles it would be a good sign of the relationship between them.

    Handlers would know nothing of the borgs history. This is because there's a good chance the handler might dislike the borg based on its crimes.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:15 No.10842036
    Something worth putting in the fluff when you get around to writing it up, is that the 'borg population finds itself polarised on the view of their past lives. Some know that no saint ends up in this life, so try to distance themselves from their lives as much as they can, while others desperately try to cling on to their past self. How the Handler deals with the second often makes or breaks their career.

    And for shits and giggles, include a religious extremist group that's a coalition of many faiths, all united in their belief the 'borgs are an abomination

    Just requested archiving then.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:15 No.10842039
    Ok added a new stat to borgs.

    Weapons. They need this one to do the fighting as well.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:18 No.10842074
    You know, for a moment, I thought what it would be like to be a borg with a hostile, or possibly sadistic handler.

    And I feel like I don't want to think about it again. Which bodes well for the emotional impact the game might grow to have on its' players. Screw Cthulhu, this is scary. Imagine the plug soldiers from Battle Angel Alita.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:19 No.10842080

    Different agencies have a different approach to the Borgs previous lives.

    Some completely disallow the discussion of it. While others leave it up to handlers and others try to give the borg some therapy to make them comfortable with their past.

    All agencies try to make the bots live for the moment though. It's best for the agencies if the borgs don't think too much about the past or future.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:21 No.10842099

    It's a symbiotic relationship.

    Even if the borg was convicted of raping and eating a nursery of children the handler is still dependant on him. An unprofessional handler would try to "punish" the borg and end up suffering for it.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:24 No.10842115

    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:25 No.10842131
    Think that's scary, imagine the old and grizzled Handlers.

    Every day he's a mix between investigator, counsellor and tactician. He has to know everything he can or someone dies. He has to think on his feet and try to influence the battle while miles away, or someone dies. He has to put his trust in someone who a mere year ago may have been a sociopathic killer, he has to trust that man (or woman) with everything, and then when they come home he has to keep them on track, help them deal with the fact they're nothing but an expendable asset, a tool to be used and then shelved.

    And then once he's done all of that, he gets on the subway and goes home to his empty apartment and looks at the pictures on the shelf of his ex-wife and son. He doesn't see them any more, she couldn't handle how much of his life was spent in his job. His son is a full grown man now, who last saw his father when the supposedly powerful man was weeping over a machine he had sent to its death.

    He gulps down the whiskey in the glass in his left hand, the burning sensation enough to distract him for a few seconds. Then he looks at the gun in his right hand and considers it. Just for a few seconds he wonders how much he wants to cling to this life. And then he puts it back in the drawer and drinks until he passes out.

    Tomorrow he will wake up, go to work, and be chewed out by his boss because his insubordinate 'borg let one of the terrorists get away while he was saving a hostage, and he will sit there and take it, all because that insubordinate 'borg needs him right now.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:26 No.10842139
    >convicted of raping and eating a nursery of children

    ...the hell kind of trial would come of that.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:27 No.10842154
    This game is made of heartstrings and win.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:28 No.10842167
    >>All agencies try to make the bots live for the moment though

    You are now thinking of less scrupulous agencies that hook up 'borg brains to various drugs to provoke the required responses. Get them high and addled when not required, then pump them full of adrenaline and shit when sending them to kill fucking everything.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:30 No.10842176
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    Cyborg Psychology is a very unique field of psychology.

    Dealing specifically with cyborgs it doesn't draw many people. It's a very difficult field to work in. You inevitably work for the government with very dangerous patients. It takes a very special individual to work with these people for extended periods of time without suffering psychological damage themselves.

    It's also made harder by the lack of body language in cyborgs. Makes reading them very difficult.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:31 No.10842186
    >>10842167 samefagging
    But in doing so, the life expectancy of the 'borg is halved, and the psychology becomes less a precise science, and more of a 'roll the dice and hope it doesn't fuck you in the ass' situation.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:32 No.10842190

    Judge reads the sheet...

    prosecution presents the evidence

    defence doesn't even bother trying

    Jury says "GUILTY!"

    Judge gives him life/execution

    He gets borged.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:32 No.10842196

    fuck yeah
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:32 No.10842197
    >It's also made harder by the lack of body language in cyborgs. Makes reading them very difficult.

    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:33 No.10842209

    This is excellent slang
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:34 No.10842215

    There is literally no body language.

    Even an assburger is going to have a tiny amount of body language or at least have facial expressions.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:35 No.10842224
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    I am glad, /tg/, I am so very glad, that it is so. Because for the longest of time, I thought /tg/ was too immature, cynical or gamist for anything emotionally engaging. And now I've been overwhelmingly proven wrong.

    Gushing aside, though, yeah. A different kind of horror seems somewhat central to the concept. Both handlers and 'borgs are locked in a grating, consuming, vicious cycle that some paper-pushing assholes built because for them it's a convenient way of coercing some african banana state to reconsider who they'll give their uranium mining rights to. The real monsters are the circumstances, and the people and the societies that built them. There's no realistic hope for escape from the inevitable end result - that the 'borg winds up dead, and the handler winds up broken for it. The only easy way out is to not to care for the cyborg. But the question is, is it right to not care?
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:37 No.10842239

    thanks didn't think it would go down so well.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:37 No.10842240
    In colloquial slang, "borg" is used as a direct derogatory term. Such as "borg you".

    Because it's worse to be borged than to be fucked.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:42 No.10842274
    I like that. Because of the overwhelmingly negative connotation with being borged, it's come to mean "really really bad" in all forms.
    "It could be borged" replaces "it's not as bad as it could be".
    "Next you'll borg me" replaces "How could things get any worse!"
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:43 No.10842279
    >He gets borged.

    Sounds like that would be commonly held as the worst punishment ever devised. I picture the toughest, most stoic serial killer ever to grace a television screen being strapped into a strange and powerful silver machine, whimpering faintly as he is raised to face the families of his victims.

    His last words are "Will it hurt?"

    A button is pressed, and he is gone forever. What remains in his place is not a man, but a parody of a man. Brain and tissue locked in the unending silence of a metal cage, seeking nothing but escape, to scream freedom in the body of a human. But there is nothing but the cage, the sharp, unfeeling fingers of a war machine slaved to an uncaring master. Nothing but the cold.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:46 No.10842302
    Except for the few lucky ones that are reborn without a clue into 15 consecutive years of buddy cop action.

    ... yeah, the less propable result, I guess.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:46 No.10842308

    It's not a simple process you could do like that. It's a very complicated surgical procedure that takes a team of expert surgeons many hours.

    Even then only one in three borgs will actually reach active service with the rest either dying on the operating table due to complications or being dismantled when the post assembly psych evaluation finds them lacking.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:48 No.10842323
    >It's not a simple process you could do like that.

    Obviously it wouldn't actually happen that way. It just happened to unfold like that.

    >Even then only one in three borgs will actually reach active service with the rest either dying on the operating table due to complications or being dismantled when the post assembly psych evaluation finds them lacking.

    That only makes it worse.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:49 No.10842329
    Oh god that gave me a horrible image. The 'borging' process doesn't just remove the necessary biological parts, it cages them into a multi-input 'box'. Basically a steel case with necessary output valves that can be plugged in to any chassis with appropriate input sockets. Some Cyborgs, the most dangerous ones, are removed from their bodies between missions, left with just this empty, near-senseless case. All they have is a camera on a stalk, a low quality speaker and voice modulator, and a mic, all of which can be turned off.

    I am now imagining a room filled with dozens of these, all crying without eyes, wishing they could remember what they did to deserve this, totally alone while surrounded by their own kind.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:52 No.10842355

    Originally it was only going to be those who were to be executed but due to insufficient numbers it was extended to prison lifers. Volunteers are taken as well but they're rare.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:53 No.10842370

    Oh yes this does happen. However borgs of that low a safety rating are typically isolated.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:53 No.10842372
    Kind of like Robocop 2. The brain in the jar, with the eyes just floating there, unblinking. Except these guys might not even have eyes either.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)09:57 No.10842399
    This is the best thread on /tg/.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)09:57 No.10842410

    It's more a metal shell. Like the cyberbrains from GitS
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)10:01 No.10842453
    The point was the near-total lack of stimulus. Once the eyes are gone, there is absolutely no incoming information. Total sensory deprivation. If the braincase is disconnected, the mind within is completely isolated. The only thing that would make it more terrifying is if they weren't put back.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)10:07 No.10842511
    The nicer agencies sedate the minds in this condition. The crueler ones consider it a waste of resources.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)10:10 No.10842541
    Ok actions.


    Right. Based on the handlers leadership skill he can demand the borg make so many actions in a turn he then has to roll a leadership test for each one. If he doesn't take all his actions then he gets bonuses to those actions.

    Moving counts as an action however turning on the spot doesn't and DM discretion on how many actions so much movement takes.

    For each leadership test you pass they follow your orders. If you fail one of the tests then from that point the borg acts according to his own judgement.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)10:15 No.10842591

    An example would be:

    "Move on top of that ruined truck and shoot those people"

    However there are helicopter gunships flying around as well with heavy weapons which the infantry lack that the borg may consider a greater threat but the people need to be taken down for the mission.

    In one instance the handler succeeds in his two leadership rolls. The borg gets in position and fires on the people.

    In another the handler fails in the second roll and the borg instead shoots at the greater threat in the helicopters.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)10:16 No.10842613
    That so reminds of any image from the Battle angel Alita manga. I wish I had the pic to post.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)10:24 No.10842715
    Handler stats have already been determined so now we need to start working on body types and psych issues.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)10:31 No.10842795
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    I remember reading somewhere that sensory deprivation generally induces hallucinations, as there is no natural "off"-button for the brain. Since the brain has no stimuli to process, it starts to produce its' own. Sort of like a mental shift gear.

    As a side note, I imagine one of the central themes of the game will propably be the handlers struggling against curiosity towards their borgs, and possibly doing detective work into their past.

    Also, how would the setting deal with cyborgization of people dying from "natural" reasons, such as medical conditions? Would similar technology be used in modern life support systems, or would the wealthy dying have to volunteer for 'service' to gain a new chance at, if not life, then existence?

    Just going along on what I remember of the Major, since GitS came up.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)10:33 No.10842816
    Please tell me that the author of that comics has already died of aids.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)10:34 No.10842841
    Ok start with bodies.

    These would be premade ones that can be used both ingame and as a base to build your own bodies.

    American Star Industries KBT9:

    Strength: 8
    Armour class: 20
    Agility: 7
    sensors: 8


    Arms: 3
    Head: 2
    Internal: 2
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)10:38 No.10842897

    Similar tech is used. But there's a limit to how much you can do. It's easier to scoop out the brain and put it in a new body than it is to keep an old body running.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)10:39 No.10842907
    Phooey! I quite like GoGo.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)10:41 No.10842930
    Read the original Battle Angel Alita manga. Like, on onemanga. Once you get to the part with the good doctor (pretty much in the last third or so), there'll be a scene just like the one you're describing.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)10:41 No.10842931
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)10:45 No.10842969

    Ventuno MBC73:

    Strength: 10
    Armour class: 40
    Agility: 1
    sensors: 6


    Arms: 6
    Head: 4
    Internal: 4
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)10:52 No.10843053
    Come on /tg/ need moar input
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)10:52 No.10843055
    ... say, should we specify body form, number of limbs and the like too?

    Like, bipedal, quadropedal, amphibious groundforce screw propelled with four tentacular manipulators, the like?
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)10:54 No.10843075

    Yes, Yes we should I was thinking I need to add a size spec as well.

    So add:

    Locomotion method (bipedal, tracks, eyc)
    Number of manipulators
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)11:06 No.10843209
    Arisaka Type 39.

    Strength: 6
    Armour class: 20
    Agility: 6
    sensors: 6


    Arms: 2
    Head: 1
    Internal: 2

    Locomotion: bipedal.
    Size: Small.
    Manipulators: 2.

    Notes: The Arisaka Type 39 is a model intended for "punitive service" in the JGDF. As such, keeping with Japanese military tradition, it is a design plagued by poor base materials, inefficient or conflicting design choices, and short service life. In contrast, it is designed for a fixed 5-year lifespan, extreme - even sadistic - disciplinary and "motivational" applications, and reusability. The JGDF handlers especially consider chassi tenfold more valuable than the brain, which societal norms and peer pressure produce at an ever-escalating pace. As such, damaged units are constantly cannibalized, with the less efficiently performing "processor" being discarded and the better being awarded with the dead unit's spare parts.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)11:08 No.10843236
    What does /tg/ think of the basic system though?

    You should be able to play the game with 2D6
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)11:11 No.10843271
    Appearance: The Type 39 is a very simple design, consisting of a globe-shaped central compartment with external sensory modules plugged in to feedback inlets. This design, while cost-efficient, has come under much criticism as in combat hostile units - or even infantrymen - have at occasions plainly torn the input devices out. Four double-jointed limbs of which two provide locomotion and two serve as hardpoints at any given moment. There is no set "up" for the unit, as both sides are symmetrical, further simplifying replacing of parts.

    There. A bit grimdark, perhaps, but I see it strangely fitting.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)11:12 No.10843287
    I'm liking it this far, although I haven't been gunning for the crunch as much as the fluff. Playtesting will tell the best.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)11:13 No.10843295

    Very good. When I write up the book thats definitely going in there. Need a drawfag to write that up.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)11:19 No.10843382
    >Need a drawfag to write that up.
    I'm sorry? That sentence just... wrenches my brain out of gear.

    Then again, I'm nursing the second day of a hangover. Thanks to said bourbon & blues.

    That aside, though, I think I'll try to come up with a few other designs now that we have a basic idea of the stats and limitations. Just for the sake of clarity, where do you consider the lower and upper limits to stats and size categories to be at?
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)11:27 No.10843501

    fuck drawfag draw

    As for the upper limits. It's hard to say.

    Humanoid ones in the medium size category (a bit bigger than a human, think Briareos in comparison to human size). I would say it'd be odd for them to have an armour class higher than 25. (The Ariska would probly have a lower armour)

    The stats for a medium size would be fairly average as borgs go. So maybe all 7s (a normal human would be 4's).

    Hardpoints depends on your size and number of manipulators.

    The more arms you have the more arm hardpoints you have obviously.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)11:29 No.10843528
    Large bots would be the size of a tank.

    Max armour class would be 40 for them and their strength colossal while their agility non-existent.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)11:31 No.10843564
    Keep saying bots. I mean borgs

    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)11:43 No.10843734
    Shit's been archived, yo.

    Vote now!
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)11:45 No.10843783
    Hm, okay. The Arisaka needs some downgrading then, with an AC 10 or 15. What I want it to be is an El Cheapo Asso constant reminder of just how fucked the person imprisoned in it is.

    And as such, it would propably be a low-end antagonist unit for the PC's, I guess.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)12:19 No.10844269

    Yeah it's a good one. I'd say AC 15 for it.

    Dam we need some drawfags on this.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)12:26 No.10844374

    actually no 10 suits it better seein as its small
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)12:31 No.10844460
    Okay, here's for a second 'bot attempt.

    Steyr-Maersk-Patria JPCP-3 (Joint Public Cybernetics Program 3)

    Strength: 8
    Armour class: 20
    Agility: 8
    sensors: 8


    Arms: 4
    Head: 2

    Locomotion: quadrupedal, amphibious.
    Size: medium.
    Manipulators: 4.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)12:32 No.10844466

    The brainchild of Swiss ingenuity and unwillingness to let issues of morality obstruct commercial exploits, the JPCP-3 is a global success story combining Swiss arms manufacturing and commercial expertise, Norwegian engineering capacity, and Finnish corruptability. The unit is, in accordance to international law, not sold to private persons or blacklisted nations, but the conglomerate tactfully sidesteps the spirit of law by renting the units as whole package deals, with handlers, maintenance personnel and "processors" included. The unit itself is a compact, bearlike in silhouette, and capable of bipedal and quadropedal movement together with a moderate swim speed. It's forelimbs carry a total of four weapons mounts. All in all, the unit is, while not elite-class, capable of it's given task of supplementing the standing armies of several smaller nations.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)12:33 No.10844486

    In practice, the unit chassi and electronics are assembled in locations scattered across Norway, while Steyr provides the optics and arms systems, and Patria the unwilling personnel. The unorthodox business model leads from the 2020's Vanhanen dictatorship's decision to "globalize the defence industry in a new effort to decrease expenses and concentrate production capacity". As Patria, a formerly government-owned defence company, had been handed reins over the whole Finnish judicial and correctional system in the previous years, through a strange set of legal loopholes, the corporation found itself at liberty to "sell" state wards under life or death sentence. Continuing large donations to the Central Unity Party's "Youth Recorrectional Charity Fund" - the board of which is manned by every notable ex-military or economy power player in the country - ensure a constant stream of new operators. Incidentially, some see a connection between the "brain trade" and the extremely open immigration, refuge and political asylum policies practiced by the hopelessly backward nation, and some even note that most of the immigrants might not be voluntary. Few bother listening to "insane conspiracy theorists" when there's money on the table.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)12:35 No.10844510
    Oh wow that's awesome

    Real neat
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)12:36 No.10844530
    How do I made contemporary political parody?

    But yeah, I thought I'd take the whole objectivization of people to another level. Why not sell prisoners if there's a lucrative use for them?
    >> ErrantVenture !!JzGoS/4RCpQ 06/30/10(Wed)12:39 No.10844568
    And if you can sell them, why not steal them and sell them on the black market at greater personal profit?

    Fuck yeah, Bodysnatchers.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)12:40 No.10844577
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)12:49 No.10844715
    Oh. Hey. That makes me think. How about this: a handler-'borg pair escape their outfit after being ordered to decommission. They acquire laboratory space and equipment by chance, and start to bait and trap other cyborg units for spare parts or new bodies altogether.

    That's like a big flaming "fuck you!" to the whole monstrous system of punishment.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)12:54 No.10844789
    Lets get an NPC in here.


    Durability: 80

    Strength: 9
    Armour class: 25
    Agility: 9
    sensors: 8


    Arms: 2
    Head: 4

    Locomotion: Bipedal
    Size: medium.
    Manipulators: 2

    Arc is a former MI6 cyborg using the British Churchill5 body which despite its age is still a high class body and more sturdy than most bodies on the market.

    Arc went rogue after his handler was killed by MI6 as a result of his releasing information on the treatment of cyborg agents to the British press (shockingly enough the British public were sympathetic).

    Currently it is unknown where or from who Arc receives his maintenance and upkeep as all national powers deny any connection.

    Arc is unusual among cyborgs, being a pacifist. However he is still prepared to defend himself and others if it suits his personal ideals.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)13:02 No.10844899
    And another NPC who isn't a moralfag


    Strength: 10
    Armour class: 45
    Agility: 1
    sensors: 8


    Arms: 8
    Head: 4
    Internal: 8

    Locomotion: tank tracks
    Size: Large
    Manipulators: 6

    998 is a former US army battle cyborg. He is bristling with weapons and armour. He went rogue during the fourth Afghanistan War and has been roaming the middle east destroying everything he encounters. His psychological state was described by his battalion psychiatrist as "Too dangerous. Need's decommissioning ASAP". Unfortunately this was not done fast enough and he managed to escape.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)13:02 No.10844908

    Now that is nasty.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)13:15 No.10845054
         File1277918115.jpg-(14 KB, 297x148, tachikomabrideboxbot.jpg)
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    Strength: 9
    Armour class: 25
    Agility: 3
    sensors: 5


    Arms: 2
    Head: 2
    Internal: 2

    Locomotion: ground force screw, collapsible paraglider.
    Size: medium
    Manipulators: 2

    A case study of the "desant"-class heavy medium-frame infiltrator unit, 112 shows aptly why Soviet Union discontinued its' production after the first batch. As an infiltrator unit, it was equipped with a miniature fission reactor, an independent glucose and lubricant production units, self-cleansing filter systems and everything else necessary for long-term independent guerilla and sabotage activities.

    Realizing his own ability to function independently practically to the very end of his lifespan, 112 swiftly killed its' operator and disappeared into the jungles of South-East asia, never to be seen again. More embarassed than frustrated, the Soviet cybernetics command deny the very existence of the DESANT model.

    112 himself is perfectly content to spend the rest of his life enjoying mountaineering, exploring and fishing in the many patches of jungle still free of overpopulation. He will kill without hesitation in case his freedom is compromised, though.

    In his spare time he collects insects. He likes to set them free after he's done examining them, though, since the thought of being "collected" causes him a strong, inexplicable sense of discomfort.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)13:15 No.10845056
    Ok I think we can say that the best max for stats is 10. That presents a good chance for failure even at max.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)13:16 No.10845066

    what's a ground force screw?
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)13:21 No.10845113
    I seem to have butchered the term completely. I forget whether it was called a "ground effect craft" or whatever. The principle is propulsion by archimedes' screw. Idea snatched from this, of course:

    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)13:22 No.10845128

    Oh wow nasty.


    This RPG needs a name
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)13:27 No.10845186


    Handle With care?

    No. Um...

    I wonder what'd go well with the theme of people practically "abandoned" by their own societies to the point they're stripped even of their flesh and blood?

    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)13:31 No.10845229
         File1277919090.jpg-(166 KB, 719x682, arisaka.jpg)
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    Some kind of Death Haro.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)13:32 No.10845241

    Very nice.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)13:40 No.10845331
    Still nothing on the name. I'm stumped.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)13:44 No.10845385
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    Holy wow.

    >death haro
    Haha. I thought of Gogg when writing it, so it's close.

    Also stumped on the name though. Hmm, I wonder if we could get away with something like translating "death penalty" to latin?
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)13:46 No.10845421

    What's that legal precedent that lets the government seize private property without bothering with such petty things as peoples rights?
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)13:51 No.10845493
    Brain Case?
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)13:52 No.10845516
    Dunno, man. I'm an Eurofriend, afterall.

    Hm. Would "Crime and Punishment" be a bit too cheesy for the name?
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)13:54 No.10845537

    Just Borged
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)13:54 No.10845543

    It exists in Europe too.

    Found it though. In the USA its called Eminent domain. In europe its called Compulsory Purchase.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)14:03 No.10845693
    Hmm Borged. That does sound good
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)14:04 No.10845705

    That explains alot, I was looking for precedents breaking the 4th amendment. Yeah, we have it.

    If you think it works, let's go with it. "Name Still Pending" doesn't sound very catchy, afterall.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)14:05 No.10845720

    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)14:07 No.10845745
    Let's go with Borged then? I feel that otherwise we'll wind up fiddle-farting over the name forever.

    Plus it's kinda funny, to have the game's name translate to "fucked up badly all right" in in-game lingo.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)14:07 No.10845747

    Dyad. That works rather well.

    Sums up the game in one word.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)14:07 No.10845748
    "Virtuoso", "Uplink" or "Sub Rosa" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub_rosa
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)14:09 No.10845784

    +1 for dyad
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)14:09 No.10845793
    So the game can be played with 2D6

    This is good no?
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)14:12 No.10845833
    Yeah, let's go with 2d6. Playtesting will tell how well it works.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)14:14 No.10845870

    how about an example of how combat would be run, or are we there yet?
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)14:21 No.10845978
         File1277922093.jpg-(18 KB, 480x360, arewethereyet.jpg)
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    I think we need stats for firearms for a proper match, but a "fistfight" could be run. OP knows best though, I've barely eyed the actual statistics.

    Er, it didn't keep me from writing up a bunch of borgs though, so balance will be tenuous.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)14:23 No.10846015

    Based on their leadership the handler has so many actions they can order their bot to take in a turn.

    Movement takes up an action as well (maybe more than one depending on how large a distance is)

    the player says how many actions he's using and what he's doing with them.

    He then rolls leadership checks for each action. For each one that succeeds the borg carries out that action. If he fails one then from that point the borg obeys its own judgement.

    The borg rolls appropriate rolls for whatever action he's taking.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)14:24 No.10846029

    Barely even touched damage and such so far. Balance is non-existent right now.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)14:39 No.10846243

    i would say the borg dramatically deviating from what the handler wanted should be something fairly rare, otherwise it becomes to unreal for goverments to use borgs, if there is a 25% chance of them just ruining the mission. The stories of borgs freaking out and going AWOL,killing the target,fucking the mission up should be not unheard of, but certainly a rareity(though not enough of one that it doesnt hang like the sword of Damocles over the handler)

    After all the borgs ARE highly skilled warriors with a keen tactical acumen, thusly unless the borg REALLY REALLY thinks it has a better grasp of the situation then the handler, it would probably follow most orders, prevailing psychological conditions aside. I mention this because rolling leadership for ever action the borg takes AS WELL AS all the needed combat rolls for the actual fighting,chaseing,movement, what-have-you could really bog down an encounter with too many dice rolls, which translates into too many points of failure for any given action.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)14:42 No.10846285
    also with the idea that the player is controlling both the borg and the handler it might be hard for most players to consciously make bad choices, either because the handler has relevant information the borg does not, or the borg must make a fast choice without the option of waiting for the handler to tell him what to do.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)14:49 No.10846382
    going to chill at the FLGS, hope this thread is still here when i get back
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)14:50 No.10846400

    The handler has a panic button that can guarantee a success in giving the borg orders by inflicting pain on the borg (but it causes stress damage)

    You don't get that many actions though. The maximum number of actions would be 4 and that would be at leadership 10.

    The borgs aren't all soldiers. They're criminals. Very violent and psychotic criminals. Severe psychological issues are common (they will play a strong role in determining borg behaviour) which is why they each have a handler to keep a leash on them.

    Some of them are solid and dependable while others are barely contained. But in both cases their utility outweighs the negative press and the downsides.

    Movement wouldn't take any rolls unless you were going for something very flashy in which case you'd have an agility roll.

    You can also skip actions to give yourself bonuses to the ones you do take.


    The borgs independent actions are done by the DM who has to do it in accordance with the borgs personality and psych issues.

    The handler is in constant communication with the borg relaying orders to it.
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)14:55 No.10846465
    I think variety should exist even in this sense. The US and the Euros would be conforming to those terms, while Soviet (assuming we're going with the skit of >>10845054's, and letting the Soviet Union exist in the 2050's), Chinese and Mid-Eastern borgs would be as liable to take out a tenement block along with the intended targets or just spontaneously combust when given orders more complex than "go there, shoot there".

    Or perhaps a little variety from the usual, west-centered settings could work. Perhaps some Western borg models are "intentional" collateral cases used as shock troopers or terrorists, and thus receive the bare minimum of conditioning, restraints and expensive mechanics.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)14:59 No.10846555

    Middle Eastern borgs don't exist. They lack the tech for it.
    >> OP !DC2ryosn7E 06/30/10(Wed)15:03 No.10846625
    Right I'm tired so I'm going to get some sleep after saving this thread.

    When I wake up I'll post a new thread
    >> Anonymous 06/30/10(Wed)15:08 No.10846688
    Awright bawss. Was a fun thread, this game could go places.

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